My local GW store does a Necromunda demo today. I wanted to get my painted vintage Escher gang there to get a feel for the game.
Luckily my leader wields an autopistol & power sword. The other leader lies unpainted with her bolter in a box and will stay there unless the bolter (D:1) does as much damage as the bolt pistol (D:2). One ganger wields a chainsword (D:1) which profile is at first glance a bit underwhelming when compared to a fighting knife (D:1) AND needs Goatboy´s PDF to function. And my last gripe is the heavy stubber with Rapid Fire (1). Does this mean it will fire twice under some special condiitons? If so it will not shoot more bullets than an autogun or boltgun which is counterintuitive.
Just a couple of questions on my part:
1. Why is there a range distinction for hand to hand weapons? They are close combat weapons after all and you would only need base to base contact anyway or am I wrong here?
2. What does "E" mean in Range (L)?
Just reading through the rules I can take that one.
The Melee weapons all still have the range stat because some melee weapons can be used on people further away, such as the whip. E means engaged, so when this is in the L slot it appears to mean that this is as far away as you can get. the rules say that if there is an E in the stats, it will be in the long range position unless they are special. This is the case for swords, knives etc. On the whip it has E in the short range, but 3" in the long range column, so you can make a ranged attack with it; which makes sense.
The accuracy stats are bonuses for using that weapon for that range slot, so for some close combat weapons you get a positive modifier in the L band because this is also where E sits. So the chainsword is only for Engaged, but gives you +1
Vorian wrote: Chainsword on Gor has the same stats as a legacy Sword.
But Escher and Goliath can't get those.
Unless common sense is applied and you just let Escher and Goliath buy from the legacy weapons. If there's any difference in cost use the house specific value (lasgun for Escher).
Unless common sense is applied and you just let Escher and Goliath buy from the legacy weapons. If there's any difference in cost use the house specific value (lasgun for Escher).
I wish that the writers of these rules would have applied that common sense. This game will be played in all sorts of clubs and it is tiresome if you have to negotiate every time to use your legacy models.
Just a couple of questions on my part:
1. Why is there a range distinction for hand to hand weapons? They are close combat weapons after all and you would only need base to base contact anyway or am I wrong here?
2. What does "E" mean in Range (L)?
Just reading through the rules I can take that one.
The Melee weapons all still have the range stat because some melee weapons can be used on people further away, such as the whip. E means engaged, so when this is in the L slot it appears to mean that this is as far away as you can get. the rules say that if there is an E in the stats, it will be in the long range position unless they are special. This is the case for swords, knives etc. On the whip it has E in the short range, but 3" in the long range column, so you can make a ranged attack with it; which makes sense.
The accuracy stats are bonuses for using that weapon for that range slot, so for some close combat weapons you get a positive modifier in the L band because this is also where E sits. So the chainsword is only for Engaged, but gives you +1
Thanks for the info. So the chainsword in Necromunda is basically a precise (Acc+1) fencing weapon like a rapier. D'Artagnan, Athos, Aramis and Porthos would be eager to get their hands on this one. I expected it to be more brutal like a chainsaw for cutting up those pesky plague zombies. But this would be rather the expertise of the eviscerator which rules hasn´t been published, yet.
Just a couple of questions on my part:
1. Why is there a range distinction for hand to hand weapons? They are close combat weapons after all and you would only need base to base contact anyway or am I wrong here?
2. What does "E" mean in Range (L)?
Just reading through the rules I can take that one.
The Melee weapons all still have the range stat because some melee weapons can be used on people further away, such as the whip. E means engaged, so when this is in the L slot it appears to mean that this is as far away as you can get. the rules say that if there is an E in the stats, it will be in the long range position unless they are special. This is the case for swords, knives etc. On the whip it has E in the short range, but 3" in the long range column, so you can make a ranged attack with it; which makes sense.
The accuracy stats are bonuses for using that weapon for that range slot, so for some close combat weapons you get a positive modifier in the L band because this is also where E sits. So the chainsword is only for Engaged, but gives you +1
Thanks for the info. So the chainsword in Necromunda is basically a precise (Acc+1) fencing weapon like a rapier. D'Artagnan, Athos, Aramis and Porthos would be eager to get their hands on this one. I expected it to be more brutal like a chainsaw for cutting up those pesky plague zombies. But this would be rather the expertise of the eviscerator which rules hasn´t been published, yet.
IIRC it is often described in the Cain novels as a formal duelling weapon and somewhat of a precision blade.
Thanks for the info. So the chainsword in Necromunda is basically a precise (Acc+1) fencing weapon like a rapier. D'Artagnan, Athos, Aramis and Porthos would be eager to get their hands on this one. I expected it to be more brutal like a chainsaw for cutting up those pesky plague zombies. But this would be rather the expertise of the eviscerator which rules hasn´t been published, yet.
Your swinging about a big bunch of sharp whirling teeth, you dont need to get that slash well timed or jab under their guard to hurt them, literally anything it touches will be torn apart or pulled away. I think that covers it.
It's frustrating to see all this when GW literally had a winning template to follow. Literally. Just follow it and update a few things and add some new stuff for modern flavor.
Sometimes I wonder if the Newcromunda team only has secondhand knowledge of the old Necromunda? How hard would it have been to give each starting gang a traditional heavy (or even special) weapon? Instead of the oddball new unique weapons?
AegisGrimm wrote: It's frustrating to see all this when GW literally had a winning template to follow. Literally. Just follow it and update a few things and add some new stuff for modern flavor.
Sometimes I wonder if the Newcromunda team only has secondhand knowledge of the old Necromunda? How hard would it have been to give each starting gang a traditional heavy (or even special) weapon? Instead of the oddball new unique weapons?
q
Andy Hoare, the lead for the game, says he has been playing Necro almost weekly for the last twenty years. So yeah, he knows his stuff better than anyone.
My copy arrived unsealed, after a quick glance I appear to have everything but there are two empty baggies at the bottom of the box. Did anyone else have these?
Aeneades wrote: My copy arrived unsealed, after a quick glance I appear to have everything but there are two empty baggies at the bottom of the box. Did anyone else have these?
Yeah they have started putting spare ziplock bags in boxed games, shadespire had some too.
Aeneades wrote: My copy arrived unsealed, after a quick glance I appear to have everything but there are two empty baggies at the bottom of the box. Did anyone else have these?
Yes - it's been common since at least as far back as Calth. It's for counters etc. In my experience there's always 1 less than I want - but still better than nothing.
Thanks, I thought that would be the case but wanted to double check as the contents page was not that helpful. Will give it a proper check tomorrow when I have more time.
I sent an E-mail to someone at GW about Ray Dranfield's twitter account, the terrain tips he puts up on his feed, and how it'd be cool if they did something like that.
Dryaktylus wrote: Got a Christmas card from GW today with a special tactic card (Unterwelt-Beben - I suppose the translation is something like (Under)Hive Quake).
Huh, will ya look at that, even with the platform heels and a more upright pose, the Escher is only the same size as the plastic Marine. Whodathunkit eh *sarcastic eyebrow waggle orkmoticon goes here*
Seriously though, yeah, Goliaths are pretty HUEG, the models are brilliant though despite the really sodding annoying equipment issues. I've decided I'm basically going to build & convert the first set of models based on what *should* be available, and I'll actually bother to play the game in a year or so once GW have released enough dripfed rules content that the game begins to approach something like completeness. I just hope other folk are still playing by then.
One small thing I found to quibble over is the graphic design. I found the rule/gang war books decision to use black text on a grey/ brown background not only ugly, but hard to read sometimes.
Aeneades wrote: Thanks, I thought that would be the case but wanted to double check as the contents page was not that helpful. Will give it a proper check tomorrow when I have more time.
Did you seriously do an inventory against the box contents to see if two ziplock bags were listed?
Just got the dice in the mail, these ones might be my favorite special dice GW has done. They are a tad busy looking but definitely good quality. Gonna be really cool to see the ones they make for the other upcoming gangs.
totalfailure wrote: One small thing I found to quibble over is the graphic design. I found the rule/gang war books decision to use black text on a grey/ brown background not only ugly, but hard to read sometimes.
A few years ago I returned to College to get my BA in Graphic arts... Now I can not look at anything published without seeing bad fonts and poor color selections..
But it is good to know that its just not me that noticed problems with the book...
Aeneades wrote: Thanks, I thought that would be the case but wanted to double check as the contents page was not that helpful. Will give it a proper check tomorrow when I have more time.
Did you seriously do an inventory against the box contents to see if two ziplock bags were listed?
I think it was more to see if, considering the copy was unsealed, the empty ziplock bags should have contained something.
While I am busy complaining, the instructions included in the sold separately Escher and Goliath gang boxes are sad, bordering on pathetic. Especially compared to what has been done in kits the last few years. The gang boxes are a single sheet of paper folded into 4 pages. 1 page is the usual warnings not to eat the plastic. The other three pages are just a copy of the big sheet in the base game box.
No warnings on what parts have to go together, or shouldn’t be used together, weapon ids, or much of anything, really. You’ll have to rely on the Internet, White Dwarf, or the YouTube videos they made. I had wondered why the ‘how to assemble’ videos were needed. Wonder no more....the instructions are a fail in these sets.
Aeneades wrote: Thanks, I thought that would be the case but wanted to double check as the contents page was not that helpful. Will give it a proper check tomorrow when I have more time.
Did you seriously do an inventory against the box contents to see if two ziplock bags were listed?
I think it was more to see if, considering the copy was unsealed, the empty ziplock bags should have contained something.
Yep. Just wanted to make sure nothing had been removed.
Been flipping through the rule book and there are so many nods to the past. Things like Brat Gangs fighting it out or even engaging in racing on rare jet bikes. Or the depredations of Ash Waste nomads. So many ideas now...
Very nice good update of the look without going to far from the originals. It looks like there will be a lot of Gang War books if they release one with each new gang.
Not all inhabitants of the underhive are “lucky” enough to run with a clan house, and many try to scrape by offering their services to the highest bidder. These desperate ruffians are known collectively as Hive Scum, often hired by smaller gangs to make up their numbers while they grow. Forge World will be bringing Hive Scum to your tabletop in the new year, starting with these two:
The Orlocks will be released alongside Gang War 2; the second instalment in the Gang War series. For starters, this will contain the rules for founding and playing with your Orlock gang as well as their various new weapons and gadgets, hiring the aforementioned Hive Scum, as well as a wealth of other content to suit any Necromunda player, like using the new Badzone Delta gaming tiles:
Wow. Looking really nice IMO. Not too far from the old aesthetic but enough of an upgrade that they seem a bit more up to date. Bit more steam punky i would say and thats always a good thing in my book.
Got my copy of the box game and Gang War yesterday fro Dark Sphere (UK). Only problem is they got taken out of my hands and squirrelled away for Christmas - so another month before I actually get it
Video up for Orlocks - love the design on these guys
So they kept the biker theme but changed the tone from “West Side Story” to “Mad Max but with shirts”? I can dig it.
Also, power fist! Or maybe bionic arm?
P.S. the intro music for the Necromunda vids is really starting to grow on me. Might have to pinch a snippet to use as a ring tone…
Pity there are no female Orlocks in that sprue, but they do look great. I can see some cool Imperial Guard regiments being made from them. Mordant Acid dogs would be a low hanging fruit.
It's as if they're still inspired by Marc Gibbon's original Necromunda art even if it was a Delaque ganger that had one.
I can pass on Necromunda as a whole game but I'm quite happy to jump in with some Orlock boxes as IG and GSC conversion fodder.
Drum mag shotguns too I think? There are two distinct two-handed weapons shown on those models, and the ones with two barrels don't look like autoguns to me anyhow.
Went out on Black Friday and picked up Underhive, Gang War, an extra box of Escher and a set of those cool new bases. Kinda wish I'd gotten the dice and cards to go with them, everything in the store was 20% off all day, but I was already spending more than I planned on so I tried to stop myself.
Orlocks look okay, I can't wait to see what they do with the rest of the gangs, although I'm not sure how I like this release strategy of putting out a new $30 supplement every time they release a new gang. That's going to make the "complete" rules for Necromunda pretty god-damned expensive in the end. You need the $125 core box for the basic rules, you need Gang War for the 3D rules to play "proper" Necromunda instead of the board game version, and every supplement after sounds like it's going to include rules that you need in order to play the corresponding gangs, and really kinda want to have even if you might not "need" them because they give you the ability to hire scum and other stuff.
I'm still kinda hype, but jeez, the more things change the more they stay the same, amiright?
Also, no Arbites kinda sucks but I do hope they at least include rules for Genestealer/Chaos cultists, because I know someone who isn't really interested in the gangs much but would like to play with cultists.
The models continue to impress - if GW ever do get around to releasing plastic Sisters, it's going to be so easy to field an amazing rag-tag unit of Frateris Militia now, and I can't wait to see what ideas the INQ28 bigwigs come up with for me to pinch
That said, the rules situation continues to chafe. If they intend to release a new Gang War book with every sodding gang, that's nearly a hundred quid *just* for all the game's basic rules(not counting anything they hide away in White Dwarf or elsewhere) *not including the core rulebook*. I can't be the only one who thinks that sounds insane, right?
I mean I know they'll try and push the line that the Gang War series provides more than just gang rules, but lets be real, the main reason 99% of people would buy them is for the gang rules and the Trading Post expansions that will come with them. Holding those hostage to flog 17 quid books padded out with fluff like rules for new card tiles just seems like a really scummy move for the "new" GW, especially the supposedly "vet-friendly" Specialist Games.
The Orlocks look simply fantastic. They're even better than the Eschers and the Goliaths. The Scum are a nice collection as well (hello Dark Heresy minis!).
But feth all that. Why?
NEW TILES!!!
So surprised by that! @ GW.
I'll see if I can find out if Gang War II will have a second gang, 'cause 5 books to get the rules for 6 gangs is asking waaaaaaaaaay too much.
Mr_Rose wrote: P.S. the intro music for the Necromunda vids is really starting to grow on me. Might have to pinch a snippet to use as a ring tone…
Does anyone know what the name of that track is or where you can get it?
I wonder if Gang War II will only have the Orlocks because there'll be all the hired guns as well? Or have they just not announced the Delaques next?
Good to see how much of the background is straight from Confrontation - including the sidebar about Caryatids. Hopefully we'll get a pack of 'em from Forge World.
Underwhelmed by those Orlock, they are... very boring, especially compared to the very nice Goliath and the fantastic Escher. The Scum, however, are incredible! Need those, stat.
Of all the gangs of the original, it was the Orlocks that did nothing for me, zero interest.
I am staggered by how good these models are and now seriously considering a gang of them, because now I love the lack of 'gimmick' about them, they are just excellent detailed sculpts and the autoguns look sweet.
...and those scum... so good. really wondering now what I won't be getting instead of what I will.
Wow the Orlock's are outstanding, extra plus heretic points for being miners. And those Hive Scum! Soon there will be enough models to have an army of cultists and each one is unique. So good....
The Orlocks are obviously great models, though I have to say I like the completely crazy styles of Escher and Goliath more. Compared to them the Orlock look awfully generic, but on the other hand that makes them excellent for conversions. I think I'd like them more with a different kind of paintjob, I think they'd get a nice western vibe if they'd be painted with all sorts of subdues browns.
They’re focusing on the Gangs, but don’t expect Arbites or Enforcers.
Concept there is nobody cares enough about the Underhive to police it. That’s the Gang’s Turf, and as such, their job.
Interesting, thanks for asking, MDG
This - and I'm dead serious here - may still mean such models could be released by GW instead. Plastic. As a 40k Arbites force like in 2 Ed 40k. This would still coincide with WD's Temporal Distort article.
Remember the podcast with James Hewitt linked earlier in this thread? The FW/Specialist team did not know much about SWA, these were two teams developing independently from each other. SWA came from the GW rules development team. James was surprised when he heard of that project. Very few communication between these parallel projects.
We are also waiting for another board game. Maybe Arbites will be part of that and it is a GW product like Overkill and Execution Force.
I still consider the Arbites rumors plausible.
GSC were not part of the gangfights back in the early phase of Necromunda in the mid to late 90s. Also Adeptus Arbites were not a playable faction similiar to gangs in the original Necromunda if I remember correctly. We could see these added to the game via WD and not FW Maybe in special scenarios.
Mymearan wrote: Underwhelmed by those Orlock, they are... very boring, especially compared to the very nice Goliath and the fantastic Escher. The Scum, however, are incredible! Need those, stat.
Orlocks were always 'boring' though. That was their schick, if anything.
...and those scum... so good. really wondering now what I won't be getting instead of what I will.
Arbites, since apparently they don't want to do them!
Where did you hear that?
Mad Dok Grotsnik posted a bit earlier in the thread about talking with the devs and apparently they don't want Enforcers/Arbites to show that this is the bad side of town where even the coppers won't go.
...and those scum... so good. really wondering now what I won't be getting instead of what I will.
Arbites, since apparently they don't want to do them!
Where did you hear that?
Mad Dok Grotsnik posted a bit earlier in the thread about talking with the devs and apparently they don't want Enforcers/Arbites to show that this is the bad side of town where even the coppers won't go.
That last part is paraphrasing but it works.
It makes sense they'd want to release all the vanilla gangs first before getting into the unique 'technically not a gang but playable' groups.
I think if Necromunda remains popular we'll see them, if only so GW can sell 40k rules of Arbites to Imperial Soup armies. Previous remarks from the studio not withstanding.
Q3: Cawdor (new model look sensational??!?) lol wat?
Q4: Delaque.
soooo....no dual gangs release. :(
I believe it was said on the live stream that all the Gangs were already sculpted but are in various stages of production. The designers are now doing resin stuff which has a much shorter production time.
Those are some sweet, sweet mustaches. There's a full beard, soul patch, van dyke, handlebar, muttonchops, friendly muttonchops, and a goatee. Anybody who plays these guys without constantly saying "I mustache you a question" or "where's my quarter? Because I just took you on a mustache ride", or naming their characters "Soup Strainer", "Nose Bro", "Flavor Saver", and "Cookie Duster" is a better man than I.
I believe it was said on the live stream that all the Gangs were already sculpted but are in various stages of production. The designers are now doing resin stuff which has a much shorter production time.
I'm just curious what did they do to the model that lead them to that remark
Yeah. I see how Escher and Goliath are more crazy, but this guys right here are beautifull. Theres always need to be one "generic" group so the rest can be compared to them and think "Yeah they are crazy". Orlocks are the "generic" gang, but as others have said, being generic makes them special.
The Scum in the other hand? I love it. That woman with the mask? Is just... one of the better sculpts FW has ever done.
Just wanted to share my impression of the new Necromunda game with you all. GW shopkeeper told me eight days ago that she would do a demo game on the 24th of November. So I wanted to be prepared for the most exciting tabletop experience in this year:
The rerelease of GW´s epic game, NECROMUNDA!
I printed the PDFs of Goatboy (Chainsword-Info), Legacy rules and the two page quick starter rules. My vintage Escher were also ready for a nice shoot-out and begged me to take them along. And who can say no to a bunch of pretty girls with guns?
Upon my immediate arrival at the shop, I felt something was amiss. Six guys were huddled around the centre table and gazed down with rapt attention at the unfolding actions. I went passed them and stole a quick glance at the scenery placed upon the furniture. To my dismay not one roided out mohawk or combat stiletto was in sight. My heart sank low at this moment. Why is nobody praising the divine Emperor for bestowing upon us the glory of Necromunda?
Anyway, just three steps more and I was standing in front of the shopkeeper. Her hair was dyed in turquoise and adhered therefore faithfully to this year´s Escher hairstyle trend. But what was that thing on her head? Deer antlers? I was overjoyed at her sight because this unhealthy mutation was a true sign that Necromunda finally found it´s place in this locale and the radiation of the sump had already taken it´s toll upon it´s unfortunate inhabitants.
She greeted me with enthusiastic joy akin to a true Underhiver and showed me some painted roided out mohawks after all. Was this a lucky turn of events? We shall see. But she quickly crushed these naïve notions of mine as she explained in an apologetic tone that the gals were not ready for action because they lacked colour. Escher lacking colour? Such blasphemy! This also meant indirectly: NO demo game.
She then went into the store room and fetched the glorious Necromunda box, went passed the six dudes who not even batted an eyelash at the contents of this package and dumped them unceremoniously on a chair because all other tables were littered with useless clutter that had no connection to Necromunda in one way or the other. What was I doing here?
I tried to dissuade her from her false conception of “NO demo game” because in my backpack was a vintage Escher gang and a simple intro game was still possible. Unfortunately my proposal fell on deaf ears because she was not a fan of the “vintage” concept which I also witnessed during my three Blood Bowl demo games that were held by myself in her shop several months ago. What was the result of these two demos? Two sold boxes of Blood Bowl and then it faded slowly back into oblivion akin to GW´s specialist games.
During our conversation a new customer entered the shop, took place upon a chair and started to paint after greeting the shopkeeper. He displayed no interest in Necromunda at all as I rummaged disheartened in the box contents. Meanwhile the six guys at the centre table were still held captive at the going ons and displayed a disturbing lack of interest to anything else than power armoured goons battling it out on this board with an unchanging scenery week after week.
Then I suddenly realized that my intention to help advertise Necromunda here was a sisyphean endeavour as was the case with Blood Bowl and left the locale. Necromunda died at the day of it´s birth in this shop. Quite pathetic.
Anyway, I have already preordered the box weeks ago in a not so local shop and will start to assemble & paint the stuff as soon as the corresponding gang cards also arrive.
What were your experiences with the rerelease of Necromunda in your FLGS or GW store?
Strg Alt wrote: Necromunda died at the day of it´s birth in this shop. Quite pathetic.
GW should absolutely capitalise on situations like this by doing something clever, like releasing 1 gang a quarter over the course of a fething year...
Well, I was rather happy to see the new Orlocks teased...and then immediately dumped my interest in the new Necromunda when it was revealed that basically each gang will need an additional $30 book to play. That's garbage. These aren't 40K armies, and I simply won't buy all of these books to field a couple of different gangs. That's a complete gak way to do this game.
I'll pick up some Cawdor on discount in the far future and play old Necromunda, but the new one can more or less get stuffed. Now if they want to prove me wrong by releasing hefty and stellar content in each Gang War book, by all means go for it --- as it stands now, not buying into that model.
Strg Alt wrote: Necromunda died at the day of it´s birth in this shop. Quite pathetic.
GW should absolutely capitalise on situations like this by doing something clever, like releasing 1 gang a quarter over the course of a fething year...
Yes, this would be great. There is also another reason apart from an unsound release schedule that specialist games like Necromunda & Blood Bowl suffer from:
Lack of a good advertisement.
When a new edition of 40K comes around, customers are often greeted by a huge SM made of cardboard at the local GW store or other fancy stuff. This generates interest immediately. Why don´t they do these kind of things for Necromunda? Perhaps they think that brutal, roided out Goliaths and high-heeled amazons from a post-apocalyptic setting are not suitable for twelve year-olds and therefore not worth the effort. I had a good look at the new Death Guard style. Nurglings wearing helmets and the myphitic blight hauler definetely scream "chibi" at me.
There was no hype about Necromunda at all in the shop. Even Gorechosen & Shadespire sparked more interest. Idk, apparently Necromunda is only good for vets who enjoyed it immensely twenty years ago.
If that's their audience then aiiieee... we already have the models and twenty years worth of rules available for free. They must broaden its appeal beyond nostalgia or its D.O.A.
Strg Alt wrote: Necromunda died at the day of it´s birth in this shop. Quite pathetic.
GW should absolutely capitalise on situations like this by doing something clever, like releasing 1 gang a quarter over the course of a fething year...
Yes, this would be great. There is also another reason apart from an unsound release schedule that specialist games like Necromunda & Blood Bowl suffer from:
Lack of a good advertisement.
When a new edition of 40K comes around, customers are often greeted by a huge SM made of cardboard at the local GW store or other fancy stuff. This generates interest immediately. Why don´t they do these kind of things for Necromunda? Perhaps they think that brutal, roided out Goliaths and high-heeled amazons from a post-apocalyptic setting are not suitable for twelve year-olds and therefore not worth the effort. I had a good look at the new Death Guard style. Nurglings wearing helmets and the myphitic blight hauler definetely scream "chibi" at me.
There was no hype about Necromunda at all in the shop. Even Gorechosen & Shadespire sparked more interest. Idk, apparently Necromunda is only good for vets who enjoyed it immensely twenty years ago.
Chopstick wrote: I see no problem playing a demo game with unpainted models. especially it's launch day.
Necromunda is definitely not a game for everyone, I'm the only one order the box game at my GW store (i think) lol. Hopefully it arrived tomorrow tho.
The shopkeeper is either ordered to display painted figures for a demo game or she knew that Necromunda was an abortion right away and decided on the spot not to do a demo game. There was also actually no room left to do an intro game. 40K and AOS occupied all the tables. Anyway, I had brought painted figures as a substitute but them being vintage held no appeal for the shopkeeper.
Strg Alt wrote: Necromunda died at the day of it´s birth in this shop. Quite pathetic.
GW should absolutely capitalise on situations like this by doing something clever, like releasing 1 gang a quarter over the course of a fething year...
Yes, this would be great. There is also another reason apart from an unsound release schedule that specialist games like Necromunda & Blood Bowl suffer from:
Lack of a good advertisement.
When a new edition of 40K comes around, customers are often greeted by a huge SM made of cardboard at the local GW store or other fancy stuff. This generates interest immediately. Why don´t they do these kind of things for Necromunda? Perhaps they think that brutal, roided out Goliaths and high-heeled amazons from a post-apocalyptic setting are not suitable for twelve year-olds and therefore not worth the effort. I had a good look at the new Death Guard style. Nurglings wearing helmets and the myphitic blight hauler definetely scream "chibi" at me.
There was no hype about Necromunda at all in the shop. Even Gorechosen & Shadespire sparked more interest. Idk, apparently Necromunda is only good for vets who enjoyed it immensely twenty years ago.
You mean like this?
Yes, something like this would have been really great and helpful for the long term success of Necromunda. But it won´t happen in this god forsaken place which I went to yesterday. Better to sweep a brand new release under a rug and wonder later why the sales of the product are so low.
Strg Alt wrote: Idk, apparently Necromunda is only good for vets who enjoyed it immensely twenty years ago.
I suspect that vets will not be among the early adopters. They've been playing the same game for twenty years and don't see anything wrong with it, so they are going to be overly critical about every change and complain loudly every time they have to spend money to buy anything (especially if it replaces something they already had and works fine dagnabbit). They'll find legacy gang rules to be a half measure that doesn't go far enough, losing value that the gangs used to have while lacking value that the new gangs have by virtue of being part of the new system. Are the new figures a different scale? Where's the heavy weapons? Why do I have to wait until 2018 for my gang to be released? And 2D terrain? Are they fething nuts?!?! Basically, the new Necromunda is going to piss off old Necromunda fans something fierce.
The early adopters will largely be people who are okay with trying new and different things, who don't see 2D tiles as an affront to the Necromunda of the past, and don't have twenty years of expectations and baggage.
I would take years of continued support over the 6 gangs being there on day one and it being forgotten about.
It's obviously a side project for GW, it'll continue to grow as the releases come along.
I am surprised if they said they weren't going to do the Enforcers at all, since that's the first thing everyone asks and they've mentioned doing them in the live streams
I am surprised if they said they weren't going to do the Enforcers at all, since that's the first thing everyone asks and they've mentioned doing them in the live streams
Maybe they are worried about them being thinly veiled Judge Dredd rip offs...
But that's intentional and always has been. Hell, GW used to sell and promote a Judge Dredd game. This is nothing new. This was back when Judge Dredd was a relatively new IP as well.
Every ones sad about that Enforcers line, except we have confirmation they are getting released, so what if they are double bluffing and we are going to get a small "army" release for them, couple of boxed sets, a riot tank etc as allies for Imperial armies?
The Enforcers don’t go down to the Underhive…
Of Hive Primaris.
There is another entire Hive full of Enforcers on Necromunda, all of whom are fighting to keep the Clan Houses out of their little pocket of democratic idyll….
Aka “we already planned for an entire other campaign setting in case we decided Enforcers were popular enough for a kit.”
I'm digging those new Orlocks (well except the respirator heads....they will get swapped for Skitari Vanguard heads, which look suitably enough like miner equipment). The scum look extra nice also.... they will definitely get picked up. I'm rather bummed there will be a gang war for every gang, that is some hardcore nickel and diming. I'm hoping each book at least contains a bunch of new scenarios.
Sorry to see so many giving up on Newcromunda so soon. Here’s how I see it: While I might not like the sales strategy, I really like having Necromunda and everything that entails. So I will support the release because I know that if I want to see more of this kind of stuff made, it’s going to have to make money. Now it seems to me that there are folks content to let it fail, but I suspect many of the same will complain about why this type of stuff doesn’t get supported by GW. Seems rather contradictory. You want cool different stuff that explores other parts of the background, but won’t buy it because xyz. I know this isn’t everyone, but it’s a bummer because I want to see more of this from Gdubs, not less.
Fair enough point Dread Master. I was personally hoping there would only be three Gang War books, and I can definitely understand the frustration of those that will not be buying because of the sale strategy. That said, I will be picking up the Orlocks and the new Gang War book, because I love Necromunda and this new edition seems awesome so far. I may not pick up every gang, but will end up with every Gang War book I'm sure. It does help that I only play two miniatures games though (at least that are alive and have releases), so a thirty dollar supplement to me every three months is not a big deal.
Dread Master wrote: Sorry to see so many giving up on Newcromunda so soon. Here’s how I see it: While I might not like the sales strategy, I really like having Necromunda and everything that entails. So I will support the release because I know that if I want to see more of this kind of stuff made, it’s going to have to make money. Now it seems to me that there are folks content to let it fail, but I suspect many of the same will complain about why this type of stuff doesn’t get supported by GW. Seems rather contradictory. You want cool different stuff that explores other parts of the background, but won’t buy it because xyz. I know this isn’t everyone, but it’s a bummer because I want to see more of this from Gdubs, not less.
Yeah it's amazing to see such unique and characterful non space marine models being released. I can support it for that alone, it feels way more wacky and creative and interesting than ordinary 40k. I plan on getting the Orlocks, tiles and expansion book in Feb. With it coming out that far away it means I wont have trouble with spending too much money at once. The models are great..which surprised me cause Orlocks were always my least favorite. I wonder if the Orlocks box will contain pre named/armed character cards just like we got for Escher/Goliaths.
AduroT wrote: Bummed they're dragging out the extra gangs so long. Wish there had been more to choose from right near the start like with Bloodbowl and Shadespire.
The Owner of my LGS told me that GW has promised store owners 18 months of support for Necromunda. Apparently there has been reluctant to buy into the specialist games by LGS and it's effecting the overall success of the game launches.
18 months of support? Gosh. Too bad 2/3rds of that are going to be 'get the basic game fully released.' Dribbling out the basics once per quarter.
With apparently $150 dollars of additional rulebooks, because obviously every 10 or so models need a dedicated $30 book to make them usable. This is crazy stuff
Just to add a bit from the "dissapointed crowd" perspective: I was hyped on this since the very first rumours and SW:A announced. I'm not that much interested in new model releases, because I have vintage gangs and made enough conversions to be content with what I have, so "drip feeding" gangs is not much of a concern for me. But...
I was really, really dissapointed that first Gang War comes without core rules. Then I got disapointed further when campaign rules and trading post release scheme leaked and instead of "solid core book with interesting add-ons later on" scheme of releases like in the '90, we got uncomplete premiere with things like Gang Tactics cards "modern approach" "pseudocollectibles" added into the game. Then we got info about GW2 and more tiles, meaning that GW's inteded mode of gameplay with this is far from what Necromunda was all about back in the '90. "Classic 3D mode" looks more like a nod for the veterans at this point.
And for those of you that argue, that "old veterans will complain, because they don't want to adapt to modern game design" - I have perfectly playable, enjoyable oldmunda which I play bi-weekly with a closed group of old Necro fans. I have been presented with an uncomplete game, that do not even get close to malleability of the COMPLETE old material and won't get close to it for at least another year, more probably two... All that while costing a lot in not justifiable purchases. It is nothing about game design, it's is all about release model which simply does not fit "revisited" but still "live" franchise...
And "legacy rules" are simply joke knowing how shallow SW:A was compared to oldmunda and seeing how similiar those composition rules and wargear lists are...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Well, those "18 months of support" with first 12 needed to cover six basic gangs and a couple of independed characters from Forgeworld seem that there is hardly any reason to believe, that "newmunda" will outgrow "oldmunda" at any point... Sad.
Dryaktylus wrote: Got a Christmas card from GW today with a special tactic card (Unterwelt-Beben - I suppose the translation is something like (Under)Hive Quake).
Doesn't seem too great
I wasn't lucky enough to get the free card in my GW Christmas card which arrived today but I rarely order from the online store so might not have qualified.
I could see the card being quite useful for a high Initiative gang who are likely to pass all the tests (I haven't seen the other cards yet to compare) and may benefit more shooting orientated gangs by making the Zone Mortalis boards more open and restricting number of ladders on a 3D board.
I was really, really dissapointed that first Gang War comes without core rules. Then I got disapointed further when campaign rules and trading post release scheme leaked and instead of "solid core book with interesting add-ons later on" scheme of releases like in the '90, we got uncomplete premiere with things like Gang Tactics cards "modern approach" "pseudocollectibles" added into the game. Then we got info about GW2 and more tiles, meaning that GW's inteded mode of gameplay with this is far from what Necromunda was all about back in the '90. "Classic 3D mode" looks more like a nod for the veterans at this point.
I think skirmish games reach a saturation point much earlier than larger army based games like 40k. You only need a handful of models so how do you support an ongoing game system when nobody actually needs to buy anything? All the currently successful skirmish games have some sort of trick needed to change the relevancy of the models and encourage people to buy more. X-Wing packages upgrade cards with new models, Infinity constantly changes the ITS rules to change which models are important, The Walking Dead has an ongoing campaign which encourages getting the new releases, and so on. Not too familiar with Malifaux, but I think it may be a combo heavy game where changing one model necessitates changing the makeup of your entire team. Again, not super familiar with it.
Necromunda, to become a game which thrives over at least 18 months, needs to have a reason for players to keep buying Necromunda material. If all the old grognards, with their already complete gangs, only had to buy a single rulebook, how exactly would Necromunda survive for more than the opening weekend? GW is creating a niche game that they expect to be a third pillar (in addition to 40k and AoS), so they need to keep people buying stuff. Ideally, it is by providing new stuff that they want. And GW is doing that with new tactics decks, scenery (both tiles and sector mechanicus), gang war supplements, hired gun characters, and eventually weapon sprues to update old models. The majority of this is what a new player of Necromunda would want, and it is necessary for the health of the game over a long period of time. Old school players want to use what they already have and don't want to buy anything new. You can't build a franchise on top of players who won't actually buy anything.
I admit that the gang war supplements feel a bit too expensive, especially if they are going to release them quarterly with the new gangs, but I love the idea of a constantly updating rulebook that keeps add new toys to play with and things to do. Just when you get tired of playing the game one way, a new supplement comes out and adds new tiles, new tactics, new weapons, new gangs, and new rules. The only problem I have with the gang war supplements is that they are about $10 too expensive - but complaining about GW products being a wee bit too expensive seems a bit trite at this point.
And for those of you that argue, that "old veterans will complain, because they don't want to adapt to modern game design" - I have perfectly playable, enjoyable oldmunda which I play bi-weekly with a closed group of old Necro fans. I have been presented with an uncomplete game, that do not even get close to malleability of the COMPLETE old material and won't get close to it for at least another year, more probably two... All that while costing a lot in not justifiable purchases. It is nothing about game design, it's is all about release model which simply does not fit "revisited" but still "live" franchise...
With all due respect, you obviously have no intention of buying the new Necromunda models or supplements, so why do you take it so personally when GW instead targets the new Necromunda towards those who will?
Necromunda, to become a game which thrives over at least 18 months, needs to have a reason for players to keep buying Necromunda material. If all the old grognards, with their already complete gangs, only had to buy a single rulebook, how exactly would Necromunda survive for more than the opening weekend? GW is creating a niche game that they expect to be a third pillar (in addition to 40k and AoS), so they need to keep people buying stuff. Ideally, it is by providing new stuff that they want. And GW is doing that with new tactics decks, scenery (both tiles and sector mechanicus), gang war supplements, hired gun characters, and eventually weapon sprues to update old models. The majority of this is what a new player of Necromunda would want, and it is necessary for the health of the game over a long period of time. Old school players want to use what they already have and don't want to buy anything new. You can't build a franchise on top of players who won't actually buy anything.
I entirely disagree with this premise. The new stuff that would have sold is new models. Yes, even to the old grognards. Even independently of how absolutely terrible the release model is, and how baffling the rules separation is, I'll still likely buy the Orlock gang (despite despising the originals and having absolutely no interest in this trainwreck) because the new Orlock models are amazing (unlike most GW models, they actually look like people, with a reasonable and authentic aesthetic).
But the health of the game is really dependent on it being functional and buyable as a game, not a series of crazy marketing gimmicks.
And as a note, it can't both be a niche game AND a third pillar. That simply doesn't fly- if it's one of those, it is by definition not the other.
Necromunda, to become a game which thrives over at least 18 months, needs to have a reason for players to keep buying Necromunda material. If all the old grognards, with their already complete gangs, only had to buy a single rulebook, how exactly would Necromunda survive for more than the opening weekend? GW is creating a niche game that they expect to be a third pillar (in addition to 40k and AoS), so they need to keep people buying stuff. Ideally, it is by providing new stuff that they want. And GW is doing that with new tactics decks, scenery (both tiles and sector mechanicus), gang war supplements, hired gun characters, and eventually weapon sprues to update old models. The majority of this is what a new player of Necromunda would want, and it is necessary for the health of the game over a long period of time. Old school players want to use what they already have and don't want to buy anything new. You can't build a franchise on top of players who won't actually buy anything.
I entirely disagree with this premise. The new stuff that would have sold is new models. Yes, even to the old grognards. Even independently of how absolutely terrible the release model is, and how baffling the rules separation is, I'll still likely buy the Orlock gang (despite despising the originals and having absolutely no interest in this trainwreck) because the new Orlock models are amazing (unlike most GW models, they actually look like people, with a reasonable and authentic aesthetic).
But the health of the game is really dependent on it being functional and buyable as a game, not a series of crazy marketing gimmicks.
And as a note, it can't both be a niche game AND a third pillar. That simply doesn't fly- if it's one of those, it is by definition not the other.
Well said, agree. I'm a grognard but would have bought in. All the reviewers struggling to find any praise isn't filling me with hope. Shan't be investing if it'll be two years before the game is complete. It sadly feels set up to fail by GW.
I know I'm not terribly interested in Escher or Goliath. Those Orlocks look cool though. I probably won't bother buying into the game until they come out.
Galas wrote: Yeah. I see how Escher and Goliath are more crazy, but this guys right here are beautifull. Theres always need to be one "generic" group so the rest can be compared to them and think "Yeah they are crazy". Orlocks are the "generic" gang, but as others have said, being generic makes them special.
The Scum in the other hand? I love it. That woman with the mask? Is just... one of the better sculpts FW has ever done.
Yeah both Rules wise and look wise Orlock is supposed to be "middle of the road". Not excelling at one thing, but being able to dable in everything.
What I like about the Orlocks is that they look more or less like the Generic hive gangers we saw in alot of the FF40kRPG books. They got this "Generic 40k" look, that means they would look at home as everything from Imperial Guard Regiments, to chaos and Genestealer Cultists. They also aren't Gene Hulked goliaths or Amazons in heels esher, witch means they will prob kitbash across the normal 40k range abit better.
Edit: Early 2018 dossen't sound like stretching things out TBH, because GW doesn't usually release a lot of *new*stuff in December. Instead focusing on stocking stuffer and bundle releases for the holidays. If early 2018 means January or Early Feb then that sounds about right for a release to me TBH. Not to mention we got free legacy rules right NOW for playing our old gangs till they come out.
I was really, really dissapointed that first Gang War comes without core rules. Then I got disapointed further when campaign rules and trading post release scheme leaked and instead of "solid core book with interesting add-ons later on" scheme of releases like in the '90, we got uncomplete premiere with things like Gang Tactics cards "modern approach" "pseudocollectibles" added into the game. Then we got info about GW2 and more tiles, meaning that GW's inteded mode of gameplay with this is far from what Necromunda was all about back in the '90. "Classic 3D mode" looks more like a nod for the veterans at this point.
I think skirmish games reach a saturation point much earlier than larger army based games like 40k. You only need a handful of models so how do you support an ongoing game system when nobody actually needs to buy anything? All the currently successful skirmish games have some sort of trick needed to change the relevancy of the models and encourage people to buy more. X-Wing packages upgrade cards with new models, Infinity constantly changes the ITS rules to change which models are important, The Walking Dead has an ongoing campaign which encourages getting the new releases, and so on. Not too familiar with Malifaux, but I think it may be a combo heavy game where changing one model necessitates changing the makeup of your entire team. Again, not super familiar with it.
Necromunda, to become a game which thrives over at least 18 months, needs to have a reason for players to keep buying Necromunda material. If all the old grognards, with their already complete gangs, only had to buy a single rulebook, how exactly would Necromunda survive for more than the opening weekend? GW is creating a niche game that they expect to be a third pillar (in addition to 40k and AoS), so they need to keep people buying stuff. Ideally, it is by providing new stuff that they want. And GW is doing that with new tactics decks, scenery (both tiles and sector mechanicus), gang war supplements, hired gun characters, and eventually weapon sprues to update old models. The majority of this is what a new player of Necromunda would want, and it is necessary for the health of the game over a long period of time. Old school players want to use what they already have and don't want to buy anything new. You can't build a franchise on top of players who won't actually buy anything.
I admit that the gang war supplements feel a bit too expensive, especially if they are going to release them quarterly with the new gangs, but I love the idea of a constantly updating rulebook that keeps add new toys to play with and things to do. Just when you get tired of playing the game one way, a new supplement comes out and adds new tiles, new tactics, new weapons, new gangs, and new rules. The only problem I have with the gang war supplements is that they are about $10 too expensive - but complaining about GW products being a wee bit too expensive seems a bit trite at this point.
And for those of you that argue, that "old veterans will complain, because they don't want to adapt to modern game design" - I have perfectly playable, enjoyable oldmunda which I play bi-weekly with a closed group of old Necro fans. I have been presented with an uncomplete game, that do not even get close to malleability of the COMPLETE old material and won't get close to it for at least another year, more probably two... All that while costing a lot in not justifiable purchases. It is nothing about game design, it's is all about release model which simply does not fit "revisited" but still "live" franchise...
With all due respect, you obviously have no intention of buying the new Necromunda models or supplements, so why do you take it so personally when GW instead targets the new Necromunda towards those who will?
I'm not interested in buying anything but the scenery (I love Sector Mechanicus system) ANYMORE at this point. I bought SW:A, I was intending to buy rulebook/s and "switch" to new system, maybe buy some new special characters that would catch my eye or a new, fresh gang that isn't a remake and has no old rules, that kind of support from me GW could get. And maybe they will, in those 18 months, come up with something that will make me switch editions, who knows. But "card system" simply doesn't fit my needs, locked equipment on gangers and such small trading post kills this campaign system for me, at least for another 6-12 months. If I get into a game I play it often, so deep campaign system from day one is what I wanted. And what I still have in oldmunda.
My point isn't personal, it is quite lareg bafflement on how GW is approaching competing WITH ITSELF... Oldcromunda is alive and well and appealing to the old crowd more would do a lot in department of actually playing this game at FLGSs... Dripping one gang at a time isn't really what I would call "continuous support" - how many players are in need on more than one or two large enough gangs? Growing healthy, varied community, promoting a game with missions, add-ons (not vital but divided content) is what drives ongoing sales. And GW just released crippled game to compete with it's own old, fully grown game... The result (how we can witness it even in this very thread) is dividing a niche game fanbase into two quite separate groups instead of "feeding on old bloods" to boost new system...
I made a quick and dirty sheet of necromunda fighter cards in 2 min in clipart. This should be sized properly for US letter and A4 paper. I plan to make something nicer latter tonight, but this is the quick and dirty for playing necromunda right now. ;3
edit:
Note: I don't have a printer ATM to test print, but if I did it right should work no problem. Their is going to be artifacting on them because like I said this was "quick and dirty". I need to make something nice from scratch latter.
Lockark wrote: I made a quick and dirty sheet of necromunda fighter cards for 2 min in clipart. This should be sized properly for US letter and A4 paper. I plan to make something nicer latter tonight, but this is the quick and dirty for playing necromunda right now. ;3
Lockark wrote: I made a quick and dirty sheet of necromunda fighter cards in 2 min in clipart. This should be sized properly for US letter and A4 paper. I plan to make something nicer latter tonight, but this is the quick and dirty for playing necromunda right now. ;3
edit:
Note: I don't have a printer ATM to test print, but if I did it right should work no problem. Their is going to be artifacting on them because like I said this was "quick and dirty". I need to make something nice from scratch latter.
Thanks for doing this! I'm sure I'll get a lot of use out of it down the road.
So leadership is pretty much a pointless stat, bar a couple of skills what use is it!? Why didn’t the designers use a leadership check within the group activation mechanic and bottle tests.
Necromunda, to become a game which thrives over at least 18 months, needs to have a reason for players to keep buying Necromunda material. If all the old grognards, with their already complete gangs, only had to buy a single rulebook, how exactly would Necromunda survive for more than the opening weekend?
The flipside of that is that in order to last those 18 months, it needs people to buy it in the first place.
I would have bought a new (complete) Necromunda rulebook. I would have bought expansion books like the original Outlanders. I would have bought campaign books offering different, non-core content like the original Necromunda magazine.
I'm not buying an incomplete rulebook and then separate rulebooks for each gang.
They could simply have released the core game and one new, as-yet-unseen or highly reimagined gang. Leaving old players nothing 'new' AND stringing the old House Gangs over 18 months is... not gonna generate 'longevity'.
I wonder just how significant all of these disappointed old players actually are, numbers wise.
This new player is delighted by this release. Here is a 40k based game where I can lovingly convert and paint every miniature to the highest standard I’m able to. One which will have a release schedule I can keep up with too and not feel like I can only ever buy a fraction of the stuff I want and not feel like I have to paint a huge army that will be huge disappointment, because I can’t spent weeks on perfecting each model.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: I wonder just how significant all of these disappointed old players actually are, numbers wise.
This new player is delighted by this release. Here is a 40k based game where I can lovingly convert and paint every miniature to the highest standard I’m able to. One which will have a release schedule I can keep up with too and not feel like I can only ever buy a fraction of the stuff I want and not feel like I have to paint a huge army that will be huge disappointment, because I can’t spent weeks on perfecting each model.
That's awesome. Hope the system hooks you as much as the old one did me!
Necromunda, to become a game which thrives over at least 18 months, needs to have a reason for players to keep buying Necromunda material. If all the old grognards, with their already complete gangs, only had to buy a single rulebook, how exactly would Necromunda survive for more than the opening weekend?
The flipside of that is that in order to last those 18 months, it needs people to buy it in the first place.
I would have bought a new (complete) Necromunda rulebook. I would have bought expansion books like the original Outlanders. I would have bought campaign books offering different, non-core content like the original Necromunda magazine.
I'm not buying an incomplete rulebook and then separate rulebooks for each gang.
Today alone, I bought Necromunda, Gang War Vol 1, Clint Beastwood, and around £200 of terrain for a nascent Necromunda board.
I am not alone.
[MOD EDIT - Please find a different way to express that. - Alpharius], take this as reassurance that when you’re ready to buy in, there’ll be people ready and equipped to show you the ropes
Those Orlocks have awesome guns. They really, REALLY have a biker look now, whereas the older models remind me of bikers x Mafiosi...not helped by the paint scheme and Rick Priestley's names in the battle report Not sure if I want dudes with handlebars or not.
The Delaque should look downright creepy and Cawdor sufficiently sinister if they cintinue to use the old designs and turn it to 11. If they remake The Rat King...drool.
Voss wrote: But the health of the game is really dependent on it being functional and buyable as a game, not a series of crazy marketing gimmicks.
Actually, I think it needs both. Lifestyle games are generally only as healthy as the release schedule. See too many months without a significant new release (AoS) and the game's community starts to dwindle. It doesn't matter how passionate the fanbase is, without a near constant stream of new releases to renew the game, it will stagnate and people will start to abandon it. Keeping a healthy community is about keeping the rate of growth at or above the rate of shrinkage.
And as a note, it can't both be a niche game AND a third pillar. That simply doesn't fly- if it's one of those, it is by definition not the other.
It's a niche industry. I'll bet Necromunda does a lot better than Infinity and Infinity has been enough to support Corvus Belli all by itself (though now they have Aristeia). I also think that third pillars are like third wheels - nice to have for balance, but doesn't have to as much heavy lifting if the other two wheels are strong enough.
I would have bought a new (complete) Necromunda rulebook. I would have bought expansion books like the original Outlanders. I would have bought campaign books offering different, non-core content like the original Necromunda magazine.
I'm not buying an incomplete rulebook and then separate rulebooks for each gang.
The gang war books are not codices for individual gangs. I'm pretty sure the gang wars books are kind of a mushing together of core expansion material and different, non-core content like the magazine. Gang War 1 has full rules for Escher and Goliath, adds a campaign mode and rules for 3D terrain, along with a few scenarios. Here's what the website says about Gang War 2:
The Orlocks will be released alongside Gang War 2; the second instalment in the Gang War series. For starters, this will contain the rules for founding and playing with your Orlock gang as well as their various new weapons and gadgets, hiring the aforementioned Hive Scum, as well as a wealth of other content to suit any Necromunda player, like using the new Badzone Delta gaming tiles
So buying the Gang War supplements would be equivalent to buying Outlanders and Necromunda magazine.
The rulebook is not incomplete. They are self contained provide a complete experience. It is not unplayable. It may not be the experience you desire or expect based on the previous Necromunda. For that, you need to add on a few extra (optional) systems like the 3D rules and campaigns. But that doesn't mean the rulebook is incomplete - just that you disagree which rules are "optional". And that's fine. I just don't think you can objectively call the new rulebook (for a new game) incomplete when it provides exactly the experience it intends to provide. The other systems are built on top of it, not excised from it.
Voss wrote: But the health of the game is really dependent on it being functional and buyable as a game, not a series of crazy marketing gimmicks.
Actually, I think it needs both. Lifestyle games are generally only as healthy as the release schedule. See too many months without a significant new release (AoS) and the game's community starts to dwindle. It doesn't matter how passionate the fanbase is, without a near constant stream of new releases to renew the game, it will stagnate and people will start to abandon it. Keeping a healthy community is about keeping the rate of growth at or above the rate of shrinkage.
A reasonable stream of releases, sure, that's healthy. There is lots of room for that sort of thing- buildings, hive scum, bounty hunters, new tile sets if they want to keep on that tack.
But dribbling out the absolute basics and cutting core parts of the rules so they can be sold as separate purchases for the sake of having new releases is not productive or healthy growth. You can have your salad today, but you can't have the entree til next week (and you have to buy a different menu) is just crazy.
It's a niche industry.
Of course it is. But it's also a niche game for GW, not a third pillar. Despite (in fact because of) the wacky marketing approach, the entry for a league or campaign is a single box of whatever gang (once they come out). They've effectively told at least half the potential audience not to buy in and just wait for whichever gang when they get around to it. And implicitly probably to wait until a collected rulebook.
They've set it up to undermine sales and keep people from buying in. That isn't an approach to a pillar- by contrast the absolute rush to get new 8th edition codexes (despite all the balance problems) is what you do with a 'pillar' category game. You prioritize getting customers the product so they can buy in and keep buying.
[MOD EDIT - Please find a different way to express that. - Alpharius], take this as reassurance that when you’re ready to buy in, there’ll be people ready and equipped to show you the ropes
To be honest, that's unlikely to happen at this point. I prefer to own all of the rules for the games I play, so the drip-feed approach they're taking with Necromunda is just as off-putting as the hardback-half a codex releases through 6th and 7th edition 40k were.
Make it easy for me to get the rules, and I'll spend insane amounts of money on miniatures.
Make the rules too difficult or expensive to keep up with, and I'll just play something else.
I'm impressed with what they've released so far and the look of the upcoming releases.
I'm not impressed with the schedule for those releases and the rumoured lack of alternate gangs
After all this fanfare I'm mostly annoyed that we still can't get away from GW's minimum wage intern tier editing.
The book has whole sentences repeated, remnants of cut-and-pasted wording scattered in the text, at least one rules entry missing for a weapon keyword (Fear), at least two tactics cards misprinted into non-functionality.
Sqorgar wrote: The gang war books are not codices for individual gangs. I'm pretty sure the gang wars books are kind of a mushing together of core expansion material and different, non-core content like the magazine. Gang War 1 has full rules for Escher and Goliath, adds a campaign mode and rules for 3D terrain, along with a few scenarios.
But the page count to price ratio is pathetic.
With GW1 I can get that adding it to the main rulebook would have changed the price-point of the core box, and they wanted it to keep it to BB levels. But 4 more GW books next year, one for each gang + stretching out other concepts (this book has Hive Scum, this book has Hangers On, this book has Bounty Hunters, this book has Wyrds) is too much. I don't want to need a corerulebook + 5 supplements just to play the 6 base gangs. That's absurd.
For me, the best option if they wanted the starter to just cover the included models would have been for Gang War 1 to cover basic rules for all of the core gangs so that they're all on the table and usable, and then use later releases to add new and interesting weapons and wargear to each gang.
Necromunda, to become a game which thrives over at least 18 months, needs to have a reason for players to keep buying Necromunda material. If all the old grognards, with their already complete gangs, only had to buy a single rulebook, how exactly would Necromunda survive for more than the opening weekend? GW is creating a niche game that they expect to be a third pillar (in addition to 40k and AoS), so they need to keep people buying stuff. Ideally, it is by providing new stuff that they want. And GW is doing that with new tactics decks, scenery (both tiles and sector mechanicus), gang war supplements, hired gun characters, and eventually weapon sprues to update old models. The majority of this is what a new player of Necromunda would want, and it is necessary for the health of the game over a long period of time.
I bought the Frostgrave rulebook, a complete game (rules wise) in 1 purchase. I liked the rules and when they released (non essential) expansions at a great price point I bought every single one. I havent to this day even played a game (I dont get to play much) but I felt there was value in every purchase as they added (once again non essential) content to the base game.
If GW released Necromunda as a complete game and then released extra content (like the old gang war/necromunda magazines) then people would buy them to extend the life of their original purchase plus people actually playing the game is the best advertisement for new people to purchase the game.
As it is some (maybe many?) people see through the GW gak and realize the full rules arnt available because 'we are going to release the rules for X gang or Y weapon sometime in the future....' and so are telling GW to go jump.
This new player is delighted by this release. Here is a 40k based game where I can lovingly convert and paint every miniature to the highest standard I’m able to. One which will have a release schedule I can keep up with too and not feel like I can only ever buy a fraction of the stuff I want and not feel like I have to paint a huge army that will be huge disappointment, because I can’t spent weeks on perfecting each model.
Thats great, but let us know how you go after you paint your gang and then in a couple of months they release 'new' weapon options that suit your gang more than what you have already painted and you hear us old grognards say "why didnt they just put those in the original book" and you look at some of your models and think "I just wasted some of my precious hobby time because GW released incomplete rules"
Maybe you wont feel that way, thats ok but I dont have much hobby time and I would be far from impressed.
insaniak wrote: For me, the best option if they wanted the starter to just cover the included models would have been for Gang War 1 to cover basic rules for all of the core gangs so that they're all on the table and usable, and then use later releases to add new and interesting weapons and wargear to each gang.
But you have basic rules for all the core gangs in a free PDF. Providing you have old models, you can literally start playing right now.
But you have basic rules for all the core gangs in a free PDF. Providing you have old models, you can literally start playing right now.
That doesn't help new players. That's the absurdity, IMO. The models for the other core gangs would be finished by now, but for some inexplicable reason they've chosen to release as a two- faction game and drip feed out the rest. A lot of new players are turned off by lack of faction options (thats one of the bigger hurdles faced by new start-ups) so if you have the opportunity to release a more fleshed out game, it seems silly not to.
Few players are going to collect all of the gangs, so dropping all of them at once would have only had a positive impact on sales, as what you lose to the diehards who can't afford to buy 6 gangs at the same time, you make up for with the people who are only interested in the look of, say, Delaque... Who may or may not wait around for that hand to be released outherwise.
insaniak wrote: For me, the best option if they wanted the starter to just cover the included models would have been for Gang War 1 to cover basic rules for all of the core gangs so that they're all on the table and usable, and then use later releases to add new and interesting weapons and wargear to each gang.
Was never going to happen because:
1. No model = no rule. They don't sell Delaques/Orlocks/Van Saar/Cawdor. 2. They don't want to write rules for a gang and have that lock them in for new weapons and so on.
insaniak wrote: ... you make up for with the people who are only interested in the look of, say, Delaque...
Like me. I'm just thrilled at the prospect of having to wait -a year- for my chosen gang.
insaniak wrote: For me, the best option if they wanted the starter to just cover the included models would have been for Gang War 1 to cover basic rules for all of the core gangs so that they're all on the table and usable, and then use later releases to add new and interesting weapons and wargear to each gang.
Was never going to happen because:
1. No model = no rule. They don't sell Delaques/Orlocks/Van Saar/Cawdor.
No, I was talking about releasing the gang boxes along with the book. Even if they were simplified 'starter' versions of the gangs, with all the whackier gear to be added later.
Although they've certainly made later expansion harder for themselves with all of the gang-specific gear. Instead of being able to release, say, a model for each gang armed with a hamster launcher, with rules for adding this entry to the armoury, they have to add a whole bunch of new stuff to give everyone an equivalent update.
insaniak wrote:For me, the best option if they wanted the starter to just cover the included models would have been for Gang War 1 to cover basic rules for all of the core gangs so that they're all on the table and usable, and then use later releases to add new and interesting weapons and wargear to each gang.
There are no models for the other gangs. GW can't just release all the gangs at one time. It would represent an unprecedentedly massive release, representing years of design and production work that would need to be completed before even the first Necromunda box is sold. GW operates years in advance, so the Orlocks being released in February are completed, design-wise. However, they may not have the plastic production plates created (the pictures shown were likely painted resin prototypes), the sprues may not have been produced, the packaging not complete, the rules not fully tested, the White Dwarf photos and articles not created, and so on. You can say that the rules for playing those models could be made available (and they are, through the legacy pdf), but I think it is asking a bit much for several months worth of GW releases to be made available all on one day. I mean, it took months for the Dark Imperium models to be released separately. Maybe they could've done some monopose models, but that kind of defeats the purpose of Necromunda when you remove the customization.
At three months per gang, that is a very accelerated rate that means the core gangs will be complete in a single year. This gives new players and early adopters a chance to acclimate to the game, and all the grognards can simply come back in a year and see how the game turned out. Think of Underhive as a preview, with the real game being released a year from now - if that's what helps you through this.
MangoMadness wrote:I bought the Frostgrave rulebook, a complete game (rules wise) in 1 purchase.
And Necromunda: Underhive is a complete game. There are no Orlocks to play, so not having rules for them does not make the game incomplete. Also, the legacy rules have rules for them.
If GW released Necromunda as a complete game and then released extra content (like the old gang war/necromunda magazines) then people would buy them to extend the life of their original purchase plus people actually playing the game is the best advertisement for new people to purchase the game.
Necromunda: Underhive is a complete game. Some people could play it for years and never want for more. The only reason you think it needs more is because your expectations are being set by a game released twenty years ago. New players don't have that expectation and thus can accept something like Underhive as a starter set for a game with additional releases to come. As a comparable example, RuneWars TMG was released with a single box of two factions. Initial releases were just what was in that box, but separately. It took several months for a fourth faction to show up, and now, a year later, the third and final faction has been released.
But you have basic rules for all the core gangs in a free PDF. Providing you have old models, you can literally start playing right now.
That doesn't help new players. That's the absurdity, IMO. The models for the other core gangs would be finished by now, but for some inexplicable reason they've chosen to release as a two- faction game and drip feed out the rest. A lot of new players are turned off by lack of faction options (thats one of the bigger hurdles faced by new start-ups) so if you have the opportunity to release a more fleshed out game, it seems silly not to.
New players (and I mean NEW players, not old players new to this edition) need a much simpler starting point with fewer options. Just putting together a model may prove to be an insurmountable challenge (if you go by Board Game Geek threads). Underhive gives you exactly two factions and has precreated characters that tell you exactly how to build them. Underhive is aimed at new players. People who play board games and have never really touched a miniatures game before. They need to be handheld through the entire process, and Underhive should be seen in the same light as most starter sets, like Infinity's Red Veil/Icestorm sets, Wrath of Kings' Treachery and Honor set, or the Malifaux starter set. You can NOT play complete games of Infinity, Wrath of Kings, or Malifaux based on the rules that come in the starter sets alone - but they are complete games in and of themselves (maybe not the Malifaux one). Gang War is all about customizing your models and playing on non-standard terrain that you build yourself. It is the equivalent of buying the Infinity, Wrath of Kings, or Malifaux rulebooks.
Again, I think Gang War is too expensive by a third, and if they keep a quarterly schedule on those supplements, it'll get expensive fast. I'm not convinced that they will go quarterly with it yet. They may be much slower coming and have more than just the rules for one faction (it's possible they only mention the Orlock rules because the Orlock gang is the only one they've announced - GW is weird like that). I'm not against a quarterly supplement release schedule, and honestly, I bought all the Age of Sigmar campaign books that were much more expensive and released much closer together. It's just that right now, Gang War being a quarterly release is an assumption.
Also, the design work may be done for the other gangs, but I don't think you should consider them completed just yet. If GW is just sitting on a warehouse filled with finished products that won't become available for another year, they are losing money.
Few players are going to collect all of the gangs, so dropping all of them at once would have only had a positive impact on sales, as what you lose to the diehards who can't afford to buy 6 gangs at the same time, you make up for with the people who are only interested in the look of, say, Delaque... Who may or may not wait around for that hand to be released outherwise.
Again, think that is asking too much. Necromunda came out yesterday and already has 14 individual products released for it (I'm not even including the bundles or the new Sector Mechanicus terrain). For each gang, you have the gang box, dice, and tactics cards. You've got the core box, but all the scenic bases, bulkheads, and scatter terrain are separate releases too. And then you've got Gang War on top of it. To release 4 more gangs would add an additional 12 releases to that 14. Not all releases are created equal, sure, but when was the last time GW released 26 new products (106 new models) on one day?
Mymearan wrote: Underwhelmed by those Orlock, they are... very boring, especially compared to the very nice Goliath and the fantastic Escher. The Scum, however, are incredible! Need those, stat.
Agreed, but then again, wasn't much of a fan of the old one either.
If they release a new book for each gangs, that's pushing it a bit too far......
Few players are going to collect all of the gangs, so dropping all of them at once would have only had a positive impact on sales, as what you lose to the diehards who can't afford to buy 6 gangs at the same time, you make up for with the people who are only interested in the look of, say, Delaque... Who may or may not wait around for that hand to be released outherwise.
Again, think that is asking too much. Necromunda came out yesterday and already has 14 individual products released for it (I'm not even including the bundles or the new Sector Mechanicus terrain). For each gang, you have the gang box, dice, and tactics cards. You've got the core box, but all the scenic bases, bulkheads, and scatter terrain are separate releases too. And then you've got Gang War on top of it. To release 4 more gangs would add an additional 12 releases to that 14. Not all releases are created equal, sure, but when was the last time GW released 26 new products (106 new models) on one day?
Your scenario relies on there only being two possible options at either extreme, but the problem is there are far more than that. They could roll the cards into the gang boxes ala Shadespire. They could drop the gangs one week and the book & accessories & terrain the next. They could have included the Gang War book itself in the core box at negligible actual cost to them, stick with the two starter factions for the initial release, then drop the remaining four gangs with the second(and final, as far as the "core" experience is concerned) Gang War book in February. Even stretching things out to two more releases of a Gang War book and a pair of gangs at say the end of January and the end of April would have been tolerable. Four gangs spread over a whole year each one requiring its own additional supplement? That's taking the piss IMO.
There were any number of ways to handle this release that balanced the needs of old players, new-old players, and new-new players and they're all pretty self-evident, so the fact they settled on the release model that extracts the maximum possible revenue regardless of how it might affect the long-term viability of the game is no accident, and it's certainly not about prioritizing the needs of new players.
I very much doubt that. The initial plastic gangs would have been completed at least 6-12 months ago.
As a comparable example, RuneWars TMG was released with a single box of two factions. Initial releases were just what was in that box, but separately. It took several months for a fourth faction to show up, and now, a year later, the third and final faction has been released.
Yes, quite a lot of new games kick off with only two factions. And quite a lot of people refuse to even look at such games until they get more factions added.
New players (and I mean NEW players, not old players new to this edition) need a much simpler starting point with fewer options. Just putting together a model may prove to be an insurmountable challenge (if you go by Board Game Geek threads).
You're conflating new players and new gamers.
Again, think that is asking too much. Necromunda came out yesterday and already has 14 individual products released for it (I'm not even including the bundles or the new Sector Mechanicus terrain). For each gang, you have the gang box, dice, and tactics cards. You've got the core box, but all the scenic bases, bulkheads, and scatter terrain are separate releases too. And then you've got Gang War on top of it. To release 4 more gangs would add an additional 12 releases to that 14. Not all releases are created equal, sure, but when was the last time GW released 26 new products (106 new models) on one day?
You've misunderstood. What I was suggesting was the core game release, and then Gang War following up within a reasonbly short timeframe with the rest of the gangs. Releasing 6 sprues at once isn't a big ask for GW... it's equivalent to a new army release for 40K. Frankly, I couldn't care less about cards and dice. They can release those at the same time or save them for a separate release, for all I care. Or get really drastic and release the cards in the game box like they used to.
Im really concerned about the viability of the game now. There is clearly not enough factions, and the nickel and diming on rules will piss off old and new players, even if some refused to admit it for some weird reason. If they had release 4 factions at the beginning, and didnt cut down on the weapons available, it would have received a much better reception
Im still all in, and ill buy every single gangs, books and models they release for it, but unfortunately, i think they are setting this up to be a failure.
I'm sure most of us here are all up for exploring and expanding Necromunda. Hell, so much of the early talk was how we're even going to look at stuff outside of Hive Primus, something we know they wanted to do back in the day but never got around to. But they're not going to explore the other areas yet because they're still retreading a lot of the same ground with their initial gang releases. A year from now - a year from now! - we won't even be onto Outlanders, FFS. We'll just be getting Delaques and their rules.
Actually, has it been confirmed anywhere that each expansion will only have rules for one gang in them? All we really have to go on is that Battlebunnies rumor a couple pages ago claiming that there will be one gang per quarter, which could end up being complete bullgak for all we know.
Two gangs per book makes more sense to me...at least if you're going to release them this way instead of just putting them all in one book, anyway. GW only mentioned Orlocks and hive scum in the description on the website, but that could just be because that's all they've shown off so far. Just saying, it's possible there might be another gang finished and they just haven't chosen to show it off yet.
Anyway, I wish they'd put the fething cards in the boxes with the gangs. Or if they do insist on selling them separately then charge a reasonable price for them. $15 for some stupid cards that you need to have is just stupid when you're already spending $40 for the gang, $30 for your gang's rules, and $125 for the main box.
Sidstyler wrote: Actually, has it been confirmed anywhere that each expansion will only have rules for one gang in them? All we really have to go on is that Battlebunnies rumor a couple pages ago claiming that there will be one gang per quarter, which could end up being complete bullgak for all we know.
Given that the next book contains rules for Orlocks, will come out with the Orlocks, and won't have rules for things they don't have models for (because it's GW and no model = no rule, etc.), it's not a big leap to say that it'll be 1 Book = 1 Gang (+ other sutff). That's 4 Gang War books over the next year, which is too many (6 books to play just the basic six gangs), top expensive (the tiny page count on Gang War is a big deterrent to buying four more of them), and too slow (Happy Thanksgiving 2018 Delaque players!).
Sidstyler wrote: Two gangs per book makes more sense to me...at least if you're going to release them this way instead of just putting them all in one book, anyway. GW only mentioned Orlocks and hive scum in the description on the website, but that could just be because that's all they've shown off so far. Just saying, it's possible there might be another gang finished and they just haven't chosen to show it off yet.
Two gangs would be fine, but again, the actual miniature release schedule dictates the rules, so I don't expect it.
Your scenario relies on there only being two possible options at either extreme, but the problem is there are far more than that. They could roll the cards into the gang boxes ala Shadespire.
You might want multiple gang boxes, but wouldn't want multiple tactics decks, so adding to the cost of gang boxes isn't a great idea. Shadespire expansions are quite expensive ($30 for 4 easy to build figures).
They could drop the gangs one week and the book & accessories & terrain the next.
There's only 5 more weeks in 2017. If GW wanted to spread the Necromunda releases over a larger time, they would've had to release earlier (and miss releasing on the biggest shopping day of the year). GW doesn't tend to release new products in December. I assume because Christmas shopping is decided before then and new stuff would get ignored because everybody already spent their money on gifts for other people.
They could have included the Gang War book itself in the core box at negligible actual cost to them,
The core box is intended to be a beginner's introduction to the game. Having rules for material not included in the box tends to lead to confusion (Heroes of Normandie had that problem). A better approach would be to include the Underhive rulebook in Gang War, so that players could skip the core set. But then, they'd probably make it hardback with stitched binding and it'd be $70 instead of $30.
stick with the two starter factions for the initial release, then drop the remaining four gangs with the second(and final, as far as the "core" experience is concerned) Gang War book in February.
They are sticking with two starter factions and releasing a third in February. You just want them to release three more so that you can save a few bucks on Gang War supplements, I guess. I'm just not sure it is possible. Necromunda's support likely comes after 40k and AoS, so it's possible that the final three gangs simply aren't going to be ready in three months. Three months per gang box could actually be GW working as fast as possible.
Even stretching things out to two more releases of a Gang War book and a pair of gangs at say the end of January and the end of April would have been tolerable. Four gangs spread over a whole year each one requiring its own additional supplement? That's taking the piss IMO.
We don't yet know that each one will require a supplement, nor do we know what the release schedule is for the Gang War books. All of that is just an assumption right now. It's okay to be wary, but let's remember not to treat conjecture as fact.
And for the record, I think launching a new miniatures game and having six factions (each with dozens of weapon options) available within a single year is a pretty impressive feat (especially after having just launched a new version of 40k and codices at a stupidly quick pace). We also don't know what other things GW has planned. Just today, we learned that they are releasing more zone tiles and learned of three more hired gun models. Heck, we didn't even know about the existence of Gang War 2 until today. So the Orlocks launching with new tiles and a new Gang War book is a surprise, but we're now treating it as a pattern. We don't even know everything in Gang War 2 yet (or how much it costs), much less know that Gang War 3 is an absolute certain soon after. If they do release supplements quarterly, this means that we'll be getting more weapons, rules, models, terrain, and scenarios in addition to gang rules, so the books may end up proving worth the cost. We won't know until we can actually see what is in Gang War 2.
There were any number of ways to handle this release that balanced the needs of old players, new-old players, and new-new players and they're all pretty self-evident, so the fact they settled on the release model that extracts the maximum possible revenue regardless of how it might affect the long-term viability of the game is no accident, and it's certainly not about prioritizing the needs of new players.
For the old players, they released the legacy gang rules. For the new players, they released Underhive as an introduction to the game. For the new-old players, they released Gang War with the customization rules. As far as I can tell, you are simply complaining that you want what is in Gang Wars but don't feel like you should have to pay for it and that they aren't releasing the gangs as fast as you'd like - which is fine, but don't make it out to be some sort of objective standard or that GW chose such a schedule only to fleece you of a few extra coppers.
There were probably a lot of reasons GW is scheduling the gang releases quarterly that probably prioritize production capability and financials more than making entitled grognards feel appreciated - and while I think the Gang War book is too expensive (I haven't bought it yet), I certainly don't object to the idea of new rules and content being released for a game frequently (especially when I don't have to keep a dozen old White Dwarfs with a cross index to find the rules).
Also didn't the battlebunnies "rumour" come straight from the horse's mouth at the open day? I'd say that's about as confirmed as it gets until the previews show up on Community.
EDIT: Aha, and now we're at the namecalling stage, so it's off to ignore you go. Enjoy being ripped off while you feel smug about not being "entitled"
Your scenario relies on there only being two possible options at either extreme, but the problem is there are far more than that. They could roll the cards into the gang boxes ala Shadespire.
You might want multiple gang boxes, but wouldn't want multiple tactics decks, so adding to the cost of gang boxes isn't a great idea. Shadespire expansions are quite expensive ($30 for 4 easy to build figures).
They could drop the gangs one week and the book & accessories & terrain the next.
There's only 5 more weeks in 2017. If GW wanted to spread the Necromunda releases over a larger time, they would've had to release earlier (and miss releasing on the biggest shopping day of the year). GW doesn't tend to release new products in December. I assume because Christmas shopping is decided before then and new stuff would get ignored because everybody already spent their money on gifts for other people.
They could have included the Gang War book itself in the core box at negligible actual cost to them,
The core box is intended to be a beginner's introduction to the game. Having rules for material not included in the box tends to lead to confusion (Heroes of Normandie had that problem). A better approach would be to include the Underhive rulebook in Gang War, so that players could skip the core set. But then, they'd probably make it hardback with stitched binding and it'd be $70 instead of $30.
stick with the two starter factions for the initial release, then drop the remaining four gangs with the second(and final, as far as the "core" experience is concerned) Gang War book in February.
They are sticking with two starter factions and releasing a third in February. You just want them to release three more so that you can save a few bucks on Gang War supplements, I guess. I'm just not sure it is possible. Necromunda's support likely comes after 40k and AoS, so it's possible that the final three gangs simply aren't going to be ready in three months. Three months per gang box could actually be GW working as fast as possible.
Even stretching things out to two more releases of a Gang War book and a pair of gangs at say the end of January and the end of April would have been tolerable. Four gangs spread over a whole year each one requiring its own additional supplement? That's taking the piss IMO.
We don't yet know that each one will require a supplement, nor do we know what the release schedule is for the Gang War books. All of that is just an assumption right now. It's okay to be wary, but let's remember not to treat conjecture as fact.
And for the record, I think launching a new miniatures game and having six factions (each with dozens of weapon options) available within a single year is a pretty impressive feat (especially after having just launched a new version of 40k and codices at a stupidly quick pace). We also don't know what other things GW has planned. Just today, we learned that they are releasing more zone tiles and learned of three more hired gun models. Heck, we didn't even know about the existence of Gang War 2 until today. So the Orlocks launching with new tiles and a new Gang War book is a surprise, but we're now treating it as a pattern. We don't even know everything in Gang War 2 yet (or how much it costs), much less know that Gang War 3 is an absolute certain soon after. If they do release supplements quarterly, this means that we'll be getting more weapons, rules, models, terrain, and scenarios in addition to gang rules, so the books may end up proving worth the cost. We won't know until we can actually see what is in Gang War 2.
There were any number of ways to handle this release that balanced the needs of old players, new-old players, and new-new players and they're all pretty self-evident, so the fact they settled on the release model that extracts the maximum possible revenue regardless of how it might affect the long-term viability of the game is no accident, and it's certainly not about prioritizing the needs of new players.
For the old players, they released the legacy gang rules. For the new players, they released Underhive as an introduction to the game. For the new-old players, they released Gang War with the customization rules. As far as I can tell, you are simply complaining that you want what is in Gang Wars but don't feel like you should have to pay for it and that they aren't releasing the gangs as fast as you'd like - which is fine, but don't make it out to be some sort of objective standard or that GW chose such a schedule only to fleece you of a few extra coppers.
There were probably a lot of reasons GW is scheduling the gang releases quarterly that probably prioritize production capability and financials more than making entitled grognards feel appreciated - and while I think the Gang War book is too expensive (I haven't bought it yet), I certainly don't object to the idea of new rules and content being released for a game frequently (especially when I don't have to keep a dozen old White Dwarfs with a cross index to find the rules).
Stop comparing apple with orange. Necro is not a board game. you sound like the guys who are constantly comparing GW minis to Bandai action figures
Having rules for things not available in the main box of a miniature game never led to confusion in the old days of Specialist games, and I see no reason to assume that current gamers are more stupid now. Hell, I was 12 years old when Necro 1st ed came around, and seeing rules for wargears for which no mini existed didn't confused me (though I have to admit that I'm much more intelligent than than the average men
I was not planning to get into Necromunda at all, being buried in half painted Death Guard army and all, but WOW! If these guys are an indication for the future releases, consider me hooked.
Question: I know rules are different, but how did mercs like the "street scum" characters play in the previous version of Necromunda? What is the rationale for bringing them? Do they fit a role/niche your specific gang is particularly weak at? (I have no idea how the old game set worked)
Stop comparing apple with orange. Necro is not a board game.
Underhive is, at least as much as Warhammer Quest and Deathwatch Overkill are. At the very least, it is friends with benefits with board games.
In physical gaming, I think there are gamers who read the instructions and gamers who have the instructions explained to them. I am the former, and my friends all belong to the latter. I can not expect my friends to know how to play when they show up. They leave the responsibility of learning the game to me, and I have to introduce them to it. When they see that their Escher models can be built 187 different ways, the first thing they’ll say is is, “you do it”. Underhive is designed for these gamers. They can enjoy the game, but they don’t go into games looking to customize the experience. Underhive is a very controlled first impression, designed to explain the rules to people with a minimum amount of confusion or extraneous complexity.
Gang War is what takes the game into more hazy, do it yourself territory. Even then, with the announcement of the new zone tiles, it is obvious GW intends to keep the board game approach viable for Necromunda going forward. It won’t be the preferred way to play, but they’ll continue to support it. I suspect they’ll continue to release pre-made gangs with the new releases as well. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Question: I know rules are different, but how did mercs like the "street scum" characters play in the previous version of Necromunda? What is the rationale for bringing them? Do they fit a role/niche your specific gang is particularly weak at? (I have no idea how the old game set worked)
You pay credit to hire them and you need to keep paying after each battle if you want to keep them around. You roll a number of "upgrade" for them when you hire them, which mean they're probably better than your ganger at the start. Their value diminished greatly the more you advance your gang.
There are some special hire gun like the Bounty Hunter which can capture down fighter and turn them in for money. Which is great because that's straight up ignore multiple roll from the opponent for that down fighter to recover..
There are some funny unofficial rules for the Escher that cause one of your ganger to lure a scummer fool into offer his service for free. But you need to roll the table again for him after each battle. Which could end up with the scum leaving the gang, or the ganger left with the scum. Lulzy rule
Stop comparing apple with orange. Necro is not a board game.
Underhive is, at least as much as Warhammer Quest and Deathwatch Overkill are. At the very least, it is friends with benefits with board games.
In physical gaming, I think there are gamers who read the instructions and gamers who have the instructions explained to them. I am the former, and my friends all belong to the latter. I can not expect my friends to know how to play when they show up. They leave the responsibility of learning the game to me, and I have to introduce them to it. When they see that their Escher models can be built 187 different ways, the first thing they’ll say is is, “you do it”. Underhive is designed for these gamers. They can enjoy the game, but they don’t go into games looking to customize the experience. Underhive is a very controlled first impression, designed to explain the rules to people with a minimum amount of confusion or extraneous complexity.
Gang War is what takes the game into more hazy, do it yourself territory. Even then, with the announcement of the new zone tiles, it is obvious GW intends to keep the board game approach viable for Necromunda going forward. It won’t be the preferred way to play, but they’ll continue to support it. I suspect they’ll continue to release pre-made gangs with the new releases as well. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
If these guys dont read the rules, and you have to build the characters for them, then why the hell would having rules for weapons that are not included on the sprues confuse them???
And lets.be honest, nobody will play necro without gang wars in a month, like nobody played overkill after the first few weeks.
It is not a board game, its not aimed toward board gamers, and it will not appeal to boardgamers. Everybody that is interested in necro want more options and customisations, not less. And the artificial splitting of the rules benefit no one.
Bearing mind this is coming from Forge World rather than GW proper I think both the amount of individual products and the pricing are fine. At least it's not priced and released like Aeronautica Imperialis!
I can't comment on much more than that as I'm annoyingly on holiday an all my stuff is sitting at my mates gaff.
The release programme is not a surprise at all. FW are never going to binge release a whole range in one go. GW don't rock like that so why are people expecting the three bloke in the Specialist Games cupboard to is beyond me.
I can see both side of the mini-codex book release schedule. All the rules in one book great but people gonna moan when they realease a massive book. Does anyone else have the Necro compilation? It makes the HH tomes look like kindling. The cost of these little books is okay and they're optional if a Score is allot to you.
Having been through the original Necro release (that wasn't all at once either) I've no faults on this one yet beyond GW1 should have been in the box.
My final point in this rambling post is that this is a specialist game and it will live or die for you if you can build a coterie of like minded gangers around you. There won't be much GW store play I would imagine as the have 40k/AoS/Space Marines to sell. You had. To work at these games if you want the cool Necro experience than Vets have been talking about all these years. There's no plug and play to be found in the Underhive; you gotta work hard if you want to put Ratburger and Blindsnake on the table.
Which only makes me more tempted to wait for Arbites or Redemptionists. Mere awesomeness is not enough, I now demand awesomeness that is perfectly suited to my personal tastes!
You think this is slow? The Blood Bowl release schedule has effectively shut down. After the initial plastic teams, which were already designed when the game released, the only thing we've seen are goblins and some resin conversion kits. There are a lot of teams that need new sculpts but aren't getting them. At least Necromunda has a release schedule mapped out.
You think this is slow? The Blood Bowl release schedule has effectively shut down. After the initial plastic teams, which were already designed when the game released, the only thing we've seen are goblins and some resin conversion kits. There are a lot of teams that need new sculpts but aren't getting them. At least Necromunda has a release schedule mapped out.
Blood Bowl also had the disadvantage (from GW's perspective, at least) of a thriving 3rd party market for minis. Still, we saw Elven Union sculpts ages ago - feels like it must be almost 12 months - with nothing released.
It is a very small group who designs this. Blood Bowl gets a team every three months (Dwarfs, Skaven, Goblins and now Elves in December).
While I had hoped for a faster release schedule, there are hundreds of other suitable miniatures by other manufacturers and I have everything already to support a local group of players for now. The interest here (small student city) is very high, especially with folks who are more into RPG and story-based games.
We are already discussing new rules written by ourselves. One player would love to start an Inquisitorial warband and will use gang rules for a start but we are tinkering with new rules.
We haven't seen anything yet that's actually keeping us from playing Necromunda. We love the integration of Confrontation material. For our group this game is about life in the Imperium, focussing on gangs for now but we will expand it into Inq24-like games and other directions.
For me Necromunda has never been a plug-and-play, pick-up gaming experience. That's what Shadespire is for. Which is also a GW product and therefore prominently available in GW stores.
After unboxing my set I still think the Underhive box is a nice product. Very happy with the content.
We can bear buying a copy of Gang War each three months. Like with Chapter Approved this is not about the gang rules only. I appreciate all the content in these books.
Also can't wait for the new board tiles.
After reading the designer's notes I can understand and respect the initial limited availability of heavy weapons.
Looking forward to more resin models from FW so we can order a larger batch around new year.
Okay... my set should be arriving this week. Should I build the two gangs as GW suggests and play through the scenarios to learn the rules, or should I (and can I and still play the scenarios) equip them as I see fit? And if people suggest the latter, has anyone got some good starting load outs for either gang? (I am a Munda newb).
Maybe SG should have focussed resources on one game not three? A small team with a tiny share of production capability working on Blood Bowl (releasing at a crawl), Necromunda (releasing at a crawl with a cut-down boardgame initial release) and Titanicus (forever delayed, nothing in sight yet)... methinks they're trying too much with not enough resource.
To everyone defending the choice of a boxed board game starter: even Andy Hoare has admitted it was a rough compromise and not what they set out to do. They couldn't release enough terrain in the box at any kind of reasonable cost so did this version, and they wrote up 3D rules to let GW sell more of the SWA/Sector Mechanicus terrain once they'd heard of that. To split the 3D rules out of the box and gouge for them is pretty lame. Day One DLC indeed.
JohnnyHell wrote: Maybe SG should have focussed resources on one game not three? A small team with a tiny share of production capability working on Blood Bowl (releasing at a crawl), Necromunda (releasing at a crawl with a cut-down boardgame initial release) and Titanicus (forever delayed, nothing in sight yet)... methinks they're trying too much with not enough resource.
To everyone defending the choice of a boxed board game starter: even Andy Hoare has admitted it was a rough compromise and not what they set out to do. They couldn't release enough terrain in the box at any kind of reasonable cost so did this version, and they wrote up 3D rules to let GW sell more of the SWA/Sector Mechanicus terrain once they'd heard of that. To split the 3D rules out of the box and gouge for them is pretty lame. Day One DLC indeed.
This guy gets it. It was never intended to be 2D, which was purely a financial decision made towards the end of the design process. If I was being cynical I would say it was because they didn't want to undercut their very expensive terrain kits. There's enough card in the box to have made 3D terrain. I mean, if Necromunda works so well as a 2D game, why weren't more people playing it as such in the years since the original release? That's what put me off - nothing useful to me in the box other than the core rules, which weren't even the full rules, and some new minis which aren't so improved from the originals I would want to replace my existing gangs with them. Pass.
This is not true. And not at all what Andy Hoare and James Hewitt said. Andy mentioned early playtesters were very happy with the Zone Mortalis version. On oldhammer-forum.co.uk he posted that a bunch of the playtesters were veteran players. Stop making this up
Warhams-77 wrote: This is not true. And not at all what Andy Hoare and James Hewitt said. Andy mentioned early playtesters were very happy with the Zone Mortalis version. On oldhammer-forum.co.uk he posted that a bunch of the playtesters were veteran players. Stop making this up
I'm not. A friend spoke to him directly in Peterborough and the initial impetus for the board version was the prohibitive cost of scenery. They might be happy with it but it was a compromise, demonstrably. My post is in the old thread locked due to the stupid sexist posts, go search it out if you need to.
JohnnyHell wrote: Maybe SG should have focussed resources on one game not three? A small team with a tiny share of production capability working on Blood Bowl (releasing at a crawl), Necromunda (releasing at a crawl with a cut-down boardgame initial release) and Titanicus (forever delayed, nothing in sight yet)... methinks they're trying too much with not enough resource.
To everyone defending the choice of a boxed board game starter: even Andy Hoare has admitted it was a rough compromise and not what they set out to do. They couldn't release enough terrain in the box at any kind of reasonable cost so did this version, and they wrote up 3D rules to let GW sell more of the SWA/Sector Mechanicus terrain once they'd heard of that. To split the 3D rules out of the box and gouge for them is pretty lame. Day One DLC indeed.
This guy gets it. It was never intended to be 2D, which was purely a financial decision made towards the end of the design process. If I was being cynical I would say it was because they didn't want to undercut their very expensive terrain kits. There's enough card in the box to have made 3D terrain. I mean, if Necromunda works so well as a 2D game, why weren't more people playing it as such in the years since the original release? That's what put me off - nothing useful to me in the box other than the core rules, which weren't even the full rules, and some new minis which aren't so improved from the originals I would want to replace my existing gangs with them. Pass.
It's likely exactly because GW didn't want card scenery undercutting their spendy plastic Sector Mechanicus stuff. As I understand it SG didn't know about SWA and associated scenery initially but realised they could use this as a back door to 3D gaming again.
Caliginous wrote: Okay... my set should be arriving this week. Should I build the two gangs as GW suggests and play through the scenarios to learn the rules, or should I (and can I and still play the scenarios) equip them as I see fit? And if people suggest the latter, has anyone got some good starting load outs for either gang? (I am a Munda newb).
I say blu tac the arm and play a few game to decide which one work best for you.
For me on Escher team I like autopistol over laspistol. I also like the autogun, but for Escher you'll want to take advantage of the cheap 5 credit lasgun and get them for your ganger or juves. Lasgun have a 18" short range that give +1 to hit which is very good. I don't like the Plasma pistol because it's a huge gamble. I like the Shotgun, solid round deal 2 damage, which is useful for taking down Leader and champion, they can also take more ammo type in the game. The combi bolt rifle is great and is much better than the expensive Chem Thrower imo. As an Escher gang I think iyou should go for the maximum amount of body you can get (which is 10).
Goliath is much harder to get 10 man starting gang because of how expensive they are. I'll take the advice from the game designer and try to get frag grenade for everyone on the team (especially the guy with no gun). Your go-to basic weapon will be the Stub cannon and your fairly-priced grenade launcher will the the Escher's absolute nightmare.
We've been playing a bit so far, with just a few models per side to get used to the mechanics and the Goliath hit like a freight train that has no brakes.
I mean, they are damned good at taking shrugging off damage and once they get stuck in, it's all over for the ghouls.
Caliginous wrote: Okay... my set should be arriving this week. Should I build the two gangs as GW suggests and play through the scenarios to learn the rules, or should I (and can I and still play the scenarios) equip them as I see fit? And if people suggest the latter, has anyone got some good starting load outs for either gang? (I am a Munda newb).
The “scenarios”in the box aren’t specific to the listed gangs in any way - you can play through them with any gangs and any equipment in the book and they are also part of the campaign scenario list for when you’re playing starting gangs and building them up through a Gang War.
Just bear in mind that the suggested gangs in the box are built using the stand-alone rules and so are worth 1500 credits while starting gangs in a Gang War still use the traditional 1000 credits.
As for load-outs; the suggested gangs are OK, even if they have too much in the way of toys (chem-synths for everyone? Really?) in terms of weapons but I would recommend using blu-tac or similar poster putty to attach arms to torsos for the first few games and see how you like them.
The only real potential misstep, that others have noted, is giving the chem-thrower to a Champion; it doesn’t roll to hit so her better BS is wasted, though with the right skill (not available to a ganger) support it could be worthwhile.
Warhams-77 wrote: This is not true. And not at all what Andy Hoare and James Hewitt said. Andy mentioned early playtesters were very happy with the Zone Mortalis version. On oldhammer-forum.co.uk he posted that a bunch of the playtesters were veteran players. Stop making this up
Andy Hoare also said exactly what you're saying he didn't say on the Necromunda Worldwide FB group. Only one making stuff up is you.
Warhams-77 wrote: This is not true. And not at all what Andy Hoare and James Hewitt said. Andy mentioned early playtesters were very happy with the Zone Mortalis version. On oldhammer-forum.co.uk he posted that a bunch of the playtesters were veteran players. Stop making this up
Andy Hoare also said exactly what you're saying he didn't say on the Necromunda Worldwide FB group. Only one making stuff up is you.
Thanks. I did figure it wouldn't be the only time Andy had recanted the board format's origins.
As for load-outs; the suggested gangs are OK, even if they have too much in the way of toys (chem-synths for everyone? Really?) in terms of weapons but I would recommend using blu-tac or similar poster putty to attach arms to torsos for the first few games and see how you like them.
The only real potential misstep, that others have noted, is giving the chem-thrower to a Champion; it doesn’t roll to hit so her better BS is wasted, though with the right skill (not available to a ganger) support it could be worthwhile.
Doesn't mean she can't carry a sidearm, though you wouldn't then be able to take a CC weapon as it takes up 2 weapon spaces. The nightshade chem thrower can be 'che-synthed' meaning you're generally able to take Goliath Gangers down on a 3+ (normally 4+), hitting automatically, with no saves. I dont really worry about that 'loss of BS' when I have a weapon that hits automatically and is only available to champions and leaders
One other thing resulting from "gang specific weapons" - I assume that looting wargear from captured enemies is no longer a thing, right? As "no model=no rules" means there will never be official support for cross-gang options? No Delaques with Rivet gun or Cawdor with Chem Throwers (or how do those fancy Esher thingies are called)?
So Andy said they have added 2D terrain late in development? This is what I was responding, too. I did not get the impression from what was communicated.
nou wrote: One other thing resulting from "gang specific weapons" - I assume that looting wargear from captured enemies is no longer a thing, right? As "no model=no rules" means there will never be official support for cross-gang options? No Delaques with Rivet gun or Cawdor with Chem Throwers (or how do those fancy Esher thingies are called)?
Can't imagine they'll allow that, no. The usual 'dispose of their kit as they're miraculously unable to maintain or supply ammo for it' get-out clause.
As for load-outs; the suggested gangs are OK, even if they have too much in the way of toys (chem-synths for everyone? Really?) in terms of weapons but I would recommend using blu-tac or similar poster putty to attach arms to torsos for the first few games and see how you like them.
The only real potential misstep, that others have noted, is giving the chem-thrower to a Champion; it doesn’t roll to hit so her better BS is wasted, though with the right skill (not available to a ganger) support it could be worthwhile.
Doesn't mean she can't carry a sidearm, though you wouldn't then be able to take a CC weapon as it takes up 2 weapon spaces. The nightshade chem thrower can be 'che-synthed' meaning you're generally able to take Goliath Gangers down on a 3+ (normally 4+), hitting automatically, with no saves. I dont really worry about that 'loss of BS' when I have a weapon that hits automatically and is only available to champions and leaders
But its not restricted to only Champions and Leaders, at recruitment a single ganger can take a special weapon. It really does seem best to put it on a cheaper ganger so that Champions can be kitted out to take advantage of combat and agility skills when creating the gang.
Warhams-77 wrote: So Andy said they have added 2D terrain late in development? This is what I was responding, too. I did not get the impression from what was communicated.
Yep, was always going to be 3D rules and terrain until they did the costings towards the end of the design process. For some reason cardboard was ruled out [draw your own conclusions, personally I would say it was to avoid undercutting their inflated prices from the new plastic stuff] and became a 2D 'starter' with 3D as an add-on. Says so in the designer's video as well. I assume that's when the marketing team came up with 'An exciting new way to play!'
Doesn't mean she can't carry a sidearm, though you wouldn't then be able to take a CC weapon as it takes up 2 weapon spaces. The nightshade chem thrower can be 'che-synthed' meaning you're generally able to take Goliath Gangers down on a 3+ (normally 4+), hitting automatically, with no saves. I dont really worry about that 'loss of BS' when I have a weapon that hits automatically and is only available to champions and leaders
You are spending a whooping 150 credit (gun+ chem synth) for a weapon that can be completely shutdown if the target bring a 15 credit Respirator.
Warhams-77 wrote: So Andy said they have added 2D terrain late in development? This is what I was responding, too. I did not get the impression from what was communicated.
Yep, was always going to be 3D rules and terrain until they did the costings towards the end of the design process. For some reason cardboard was ruled out [draw your own conclusions, personally I would say it was to avoid undercutting their inflated prices from the new plastic stuff] and became a 2D 'starter' with 3D as an add-on. Says so in the designer's video as well. I assume that's when the marketing team came up with 'An exciting new way to play!'
Yeah it really is a case of GW saying to SG "Please don't step on the toes of our releases". Sucks, as the authors had the will to deliver a straightforward update instead of the forced repurposing we've seen. I'm personally hoping for a Compendium of sorts with the Core and GW1 rules in so I don't have to buy a box I don't want or need, but can play Nu-cromunda with newly-purchased or existing models. They released SWA on its own due to demand, so let's see what happens...
So far this is all starting to make an old Necromunda player sigh and wonder what might have been.
I personally think things could have worked out great with no boardgame, instead a single Rulebook+Gang War alongside boxed gangs (even if it was just the current two). Or if they had a boxed game, use all that cardboard on the tiles to instead have nice thick slot-together 3d cardstock terrain.
No models=no rules? Fine, have all the gangs use standard weapons like the old game, using the plastic releases to give them their own custom look for each gang. Let's all the old models be used, and new awesome plastics also be released. Plus minis like Genestealer Cults could be used right alongside everything else, as their kits have great versions of all the old traditional Necro weapons. At face value they could be counted as Ash Wasters or unique Delaques.
Supplements like Gang War could be otherwise used for things like releasing the current tiles with special tunnel fighting rules, and expanded rules for the gribbly Genestealer parts of the Genestealer Cults, and hired guns, etc. You know, non-core (and main gang) stuff. Stuff thats almost....supplemental.
I don't want to be drip-fed books and books and books over the next year, as if they are doing unique weapons for each gang, every fragging gang will need supplement material released with it to function. Ugh.
Very happy with the box set and the additional book:
*Great minis dor 2 teams
*some scatter terrain and interesting loot crates that can double as traps
*cards to spice up the game
Templates in orange transparent color
*cool dice
Some negative parts like the rule book, just for demo purposes I guess, same with the cardboard tiles. Maybe somethibg to try once or twice, but nothing more.
Now we just gotta wait for this game to mature and complete itswlf: more gangs, heavies, special characters and outlanders. Gonna be great!
I don't want to be drip-fed books and books and books over the next year, as if they are doing unique weapons for each gang, every fragging gang will need supplement material released with it to function. Ugh.
From an oldhammer veteran playing necro, gorka, battlefleet, mordheim and blood bowl for 20 years, welcome ti 2017. We learned this the hard way with blood bowl last year. You gonna have rules, faqs and erratas spread across pdfs, apps, multiple books and white dwarf articles. Remember how these games survived and thrived? Cause they were collected into pdfs and shared that way. That is what needs to be done with such games in order to manage them. Collect it all into one document. Thats how the old games survived. Thats what i did for blood bowl and it will certainly be done for necro.
All these people moaning, we never got all the gangs all quickly released the first time round when it was a core release back in the day, there are less people working on it now, and James has left/gone freelance.
Im happy with how theyve done it, barring the cost as i'll probably want everything, but then this is GW. The box is great, a few annoying things such as no fear rules (prob turn up in another supplement or in errata/faq) It feels like things are gradually building, giving access to more things in real life/as gangs progress. Im glad there are no heavy weapons yet (excluding short range rivet gun).
The tiles are amazing and I am SO glad theyve made them, really adds another dimension to game/ the atmosphere. Id love to see floor plans for Arbites/enforcers precincts (imagine playing inside, with plastic scenic elements such as desks, vaults, monitors etc as well as weapon holds, cells and so on. Card tiles representing different areas. Thar would make for a great boxed supplement with some minis and rules I would love to see rolling roaf bike gang dtyle supplement as well
So about that scale creep... left is the classic Mad Donna with massive heels. Right is a new Escher with massive heels. Look at that, they’re the same size! Who would’ve thought heels make you look taller...
I only want SG to release great models foe all 6 gangs and as many ads-on gangs as they can manage and wrote off the rules without hesvy fan modding. From GW I just want a round of Necromunde M2O. Please.
BUT
I had an epiphany shortly after seeing the Orlocks yesterday. With some GS and the respirator heads with punk hair they'd make GREAT Drookian Fen Guard. If the scale works that'd be a nice little add-on to my Death Korps army.
Mymearan wrote: News from open days: rules for GS cults and Chaos cults early next year in WD, so there you have it guys, there are your additional gangs.
You think this is slow? The Blood Bowl release schedule has effectively shut down. After the initial plastic teams, which were already designed when the game released, the only thing we've seen are goblins and some resin conversion kits. There are a lot of teams that need new sculpts but aren't getting them. At least Necromunda has a release schedule mapped out.
Thing is though, the word prior to release of Newcromunda was that they were taking Blood Bowl as an example of what not to do and were intending to significantly step up the release schedule for Necro. I mean they can still technically claim they're correct, since they are stepping up the release schedule from the "knob all" that Blood Bowl is presently getting, but the implication at the time was they would be stepping things up from the slow pace of BB's initial launch.
Baxx wrote: From an oldhammer veteran playing necro, gorka, battlefleet, mordheim and blood bowl for 20 years, welcome ti 2017. We learned this the hard way with blood bowl last year. You gonna have rules, faqs and erratas spread across pdfs, apps, multiple books and white dwarf articles. Remember how these games survived and thrived? Cause they were collected into pdfs and shared that way. That is what needs to be done with such games in order to manage them. Collect it all into one document. Thats how the old games survived. Thats what i did for blood bowl and it will certainly be done for necro.
Except we could do that with the old Specialist Games because GW released the rules for free on their website, and have since never bothered to go after anyone hosting them when they took the old website down. Doing it with the modern SGs is legally no different than just pirating the rules because we don't have the legal right to reformat all that material except a single physical copy for absolutely personal use in the case of digital purchases that we own. So collecting and rebinding all the upcoming material into one volume only works if everybody *individually* buys all that material and *individually* makes their own personal-use compendiums, because if one guy does it for their group congrats, you're technically "file sharing". That makes it a non-option for anyone who's primary venue of play is a GW, or who wants to attend GW events, or who's club or group includes one or more "RL rules laywer" types. Not exactly ideal eh.
Except we could do that with the old Specialist Games because GW released the rules for free on their website, and have since never bothered to go after anyone hosting them when they took the old website down. Doing it with the modern SGs is legally no different than just pirating the rules because we don't have the legal right to reformat all that material except a single physical copy for absolutely personal use in the case of digital purchases that we own. So collecting and rebinding all the upcoming material into one volume only works if everybody *individually* buys all that material and *individually* makes their own personal-use compendiums, because if one guy does it for their group congrats, you're technically "file sharing". That makes it a non-option for anyone who's primary venue of play is a GW, or who wants to attend GW events, or who's club or group includes one or more "RL rules laywer" types. Not exactly ideal eh.
Didn't give GW stores a single thought. I go into GW store once every five years. Visited one this year and got asked what armies I collected, I said I was interested in blood bowl, I heard they didn't have that and tv e conversation died there.
From my point of view you gotta break some rules and I couldn't care less about file sharing.
Except we could do that with the old Specialist Games because GW released the rules for free on their website, and have since never bothered to go after anyone hosting them when they took the old website down. Doing it with the modern SGs is legally no different than just pirating the rules because we don't have the legal right to reformat all that material except a single physical copy for absolutely personal use in the case of digital purchases that we own. So collecting and rebinding all the upcoming material into one volume only works if everybody *individually* buys all that material and *individually* makes their own personal-use compendiums, because if one guy does it for their group congrats, you're technically "file sharing". That makes it a non-option for anyone who's primary venue of play is a GW, or who wants to attend GW events, or who's club or group includes one or more "RL rules laywer" types. Not exactly ideal eh.
Didn't give GW stores a single thought. I go into GW store once every five years. Visited one this year and got asked what armies I collected, I said I was interested in blood bowl, I heard they didn't have that and tv e conversation died there.
From my point of view you gotta break some rules and I couldn't care less about file sharing.
Neither could I, but a not insignificant number of people do go into their GW store to play either as a preferred or even only option, and half the appeal of GW releasing a new version of the SGs is that playing them in stores and perhaps even regular support for organised play would lead to a resurgence in popularity and loads of fresh recruits for campaign groups going forward(the other half being the models), so a solution to GW's grubby wee cashgrab on the rules that isn't compatible with "official" play isn't really a solution I'm afraid. Us "entitled grognards" will get access to the rules one way or another if they turn out to be good, it's the casual, frugal, and/or new players who might be put off the game by having to buy and cart around half a dozen books and multiple WDs and several digital files that are the main issue.
“gang war three is mostly written
•gang war two will include rules for Orlocks, the new ZM tiles, and rules for hired guns, and hangers on.
•bounty hunters are completely custom, having full access to the trading post and about to take up to 5 weapons, and three skills. Hive scum will be a collection of low level add ons who are basically cannon fodder for your gang.
•there will be four hang-ons to start with: cook, scout, doc, and armourer.
• escher, Goliath, and orlock will get their resin weapon packs early next year around the same time GW2 comes out.
• GW3 will include a massively increased trading post and house armoury lists. Including the vast majority of imperial weapons and wargear.
•GW3 will include more specialised missions including one with civilians.
•white dwarf will have a 3rd new gang after book 2 launches made up exclusively of bounty hunters. These will have your usual levels of ganger with use of the trading post lists in place of a house list. Gangers will have a level of rareity attached to them”’
wow, this is one the best paint job I ever saw by FW.
Really like that the BH will be fully customisable, but don't like that there will be a BH only gang. I wonder if there will be a plastic kit for the BH, or if they'll encourage conversion for doing them
And big thumb down for the expanded armoury in the 3rd book. This should have been on the first one.
Big thumb up for the hanger ons and civilians mission. Hope there will be an outlaw mechanism like in OLDcromunda
Really like that the BH will be fully customisable, but don't like that there will be a BH only gang. I wonder if there will be a plastic kit for the BH, or if they'll encourage conversion for doing them
And big thumb down for the expanded armoury in the 3rd book. This should have been on the first one.
Also means the Bounty Hunters and their gang version will be pretty underwhelming until after GW3 comes out, since they rely on the presently extremely cut-down Trading Post list for all their gear.
There will probably be a new Trading Post in every book, it has to add new generic items from new gang armouries - at the very least the Orlocks' heavy stubber.
Mymearan wrote: So about that scale creep... left is the classic Mad Donna with massive heels. Right is a new Escher with massive heels. Look at that, they’re the same size! Who would’ve thought heels make you look taller...
Creds to Callum Wallace on FB
Thank you for posting a picture Mymearan. Would it be possible to post of picture of these next to cadians or guardsmen? I'm seriously considering picking up some gangs to use as conscripts but am concerned about the scaling.
I dont know... a bounty hunter gang could make sense. Theyd have to be really expensive and always massively outnumbered, but bounty hunters ganging up on especially tough targets certainly works, background wise. Theyd probably be similar to Spyrers in terms of gameplay though, so probably not the best option for ongoing campaign play.
Tyr13 wrote: I dont know... a bounty hunter gang could make sense. Theyd have to be really expensive and always massively outnumbered, but bounty hunters ganging up on especially tough targets certainly works, background wise. Theyd probably be similar to Spyrers in terms of gameplay though, so probably not the best option for ongoing campaign play.
Don’t see why? Maybe in that they wouldn’t have much use for territory but they’d still have upkeep and levels and use the trading post etc. Hireling bounty hunters don’t do this because they’re not part of your gang, not because they don’t need food; if the gang was all bounty hunters though, then you’re managing them as bounty hunters.
Arbites are the Feds, they arrest planetary nobles, attack entire guilds that rebel, close down orbital stations for investigation.
Enforcers bring the law downstairs in the Hives to arrest transgressors against those upstairs, those who've raided shipments, smuggled without paying off the correct corrupt officials.
Enforcers WILL be in this edition of Necromunda. People asking and getting a 'no' are asking about Arbites...
Arbites are the Feds, they arrest planetary nobles, attack entire guilds that rebel, close down orbital stations for investigation.
Enforcers bring the law downstairs in the Hives to arrest transgressors against those upstairs, those who've raided shipments, smuggled without paying off the correct corrupt officials.
Enforcers WILL be in this edition of Necromunda. People asking and getting a 'no' are asking about Arbites...
Orlocks will be “normal human” size - if you check the previews you’ll find at least one comparison with both Goliaths and Escher in the same picture. One thing to note specifically is that the Orlocks are on 25mm bases like the Escher rather than the 32mm ones the Goliaths use.
Kanluwen wrote: Regarding the rules, throwing out a bit of speculation here...
Blood Bowl sees the "Almanac" go up for preorder on December 2nd. It combines the rules from both season books.
Might it be planned that after the books are released they'll do similar?
I would think so. It seems like a nice and neat way to reprint and fix any errors as well as get another buck out of it.
May be good for a community to have one or two people buy the books pertinent to themselves and share the general rules until the almanacs/big books come out.
just received my order. Game looks excellent. Gang wars is a bit expensive for the rules and pages in it (it really should have been on the main book, but by now, there no more point in complaining about it). The campaign rules are not more shallow than the old ones, and might be even better. Really like the tactic cards. They had a layer of tactical play.
Bring on the new gangs and expansions, can't wait to start a campaign
Arbites are the Feds, they arrest planetary nobles, attack entire guilds that rebel, close down orbital stations for investigation.
Enforcers bring the law downstairs in the Hives to arrest transgressors against those upstairs, those who've raided shipments, smuggled without paying off the correct corrupt officials.
Enforcers WILL be in this edition of Necromunda. People asking and getting a 'no' are asking about Arbites...
Source?
I asked Andy Hoare at Open Day. Having played the RPGs from FFG where Arbites were so fleshed out and knowing Andy Hoare wrote so much for those games, I asked him to really sum up the differences and then second about Enforcers appearing in Necromunda. He categorically stated 'Enforcers' would be in, congratulated me on understanding the difference and then let me know how many people had been asking him about Arbites...
Enforcers serve the ruling House on Necromunda and keep the laws both Imperial and local to planet and hive, the Arbites are a terrifying Imperium wide law enforcement body that answers to the Imperial Law alone.
I asked Andy Hoare at Open Day. Having played the RPGs from FFG where Arbites were so fleshed out and knowing Andy Hoare wrote so much for those games, I asked him to really sum up the differences and then second about Enforcers appearing in Necromunda. He categorically stated 'Enforcers' would be in, congratulated me on understanding the difference and then let me know how many people had been asking him about Arbites...
Enforcers serve the ruling House on Necromunda and keep the laws both Imperial and local to planet and hive, the Arbites are a terrifying Imperium wide law enforcement body that answers to the Imperial Law alone.
Maybe he should have stated the difference and said that Enforcers would be in instead of griping about people not knowing the difference...?
Good that Enforcers at least will be in, I guess.
Edit note: That's not meant to be as combative as it might seem. I don't understand why he would gripe about the fact that people have been asking him about Arbites. The Enforcers were literally called "Arbites Enforcer Teams" on the boxes that I have from mail-order.
The books remind me of the old Wild West games GW did - they look lovely - maybe a bit thin on the Gang War side and the options are annoyingly small - eg no swords for Escher even though they give stats for stilleto swords.
I will say that the artwork within is really lovely - I can;t see who did it but they have done a fantastic job.
I asked Andy Hoare at Open Day. Having played the RPGs from FFG where Arbites were so fleshed out and knowing Andy Hoare wrote so much for those games, I asked him to really sum up the differences and then second about Enforcers appearing in Necromunda. He categorically stated 'Enforcers' would be in, congratulated me on understanding the difference and then let me know how many people had been asking him about Arbites...
Enforcers serve the ruling House on Necromunda and keep the laws both Imperial and local to planet and hive, the Arbites are a terrifying Imperium wide law enforcement body that answers to the Imperial Law alone.
Maybe he should have stated the difference and said that Enforcers would be in instead of griping about people not knowing the difference...?
Good that Enforcers at least will be in, I guess.
Edit note:
That's not meant to be as combative as it might seem. I don't understand why he would gripe about the fact that people have been asking him about Arbites. The Enforcers were literally called "Arbites Enforcer Teams" on the boxes that I have from mail-order.
See that part where I wrote about him griping? No because it isn't there. He was grinning the whole time. Wasn't meant to be an arsehole move nor was he being a jerk at the time.
He was just asked if Arbites were going in the game and said no, because there were no Arbites going into the game... I just asked the right question. Was all done in a lighthearted spirit.
Arbites are the Feds, they arrest planetary nobles, attack entire guilds that rebel, close down orbital stations for investigation.
Enforcers bring the law downstairs in the Hives to arrest transgressors against those upstairs, those who've raided shipments, smuggled without paying off the correct corrupt officials.
Enforcers WILL be in this edition of Necromunda. People asking and getting a 'no' are asking about Arbites...
Source?
I asked Andy Hoare at Open Day. Having played the RPGs from FFG where Arbites were so fleshed out and knowing Andy Hoare wrote so much for those games, I asked him to really sum up the differences and then second about Enforcers appearing in Necromunda. He categorically stated 'Enforcers' would be in, congratulated me on understanding the difference and then let me know how many people had been asking him about Arbites...
Enforcers serve the ruling House on Necromunda and keep the laws both Imperial and local to planet and hive, the Arbites are a terrifying Imperium wide law enforcement body that answers to the Imperial Law alone.
Well tbh if a lot of people are asking about Arbites there's really nobody to blame but GW, who made "Enforcer" models that looked basically like Arbites, then sold them as "Arbites Enforcer Teams" for years from their webstore. Hardcore fluffnuts like you or I might read every scrap of info on the setting and know the difference, but expecting Joe Gamer to grasp that nuance given the previous is unrealistic.
streetsamurai wrote: If I'm understanding correctly, juves can never be equiped with anytghing else than pistols and cc weapons no matter how much xp they gain?
Gang War, page 27. In between Turf Wars, Juves with 5+ Advancements are promoted to Champions.
Well tbh if a lot of people are asking about Arbites there's really nobody to blame but GW, who made "Enforcer" models that looked basically like Arbites, then sold them as "Arbites Enforcer Teams" for years from their webstore. Hardcore fluffnuts like you or I might read every scrap of info on the setting and know the difference, but expecting Joe Gamer to grasp that nuance given the previous is unrealistic.
Given that the questions and answers occurred at an Open Day, would you expect Joe Gamer to have paid for the ticket, traveled there and asked that?
Because if you've ever stood and listened to the questions some of the poor buggers get asked, especially the damned souls of the Black Library, on insane levels of minutia, this is hardly a thing... and as I said, he was just joshing with people asking about Arbites. It wasn't a serious thing and I'm sort of perplexed by people getting their knickers in a twist about it tbh. It was a light hearted bit of sport.
But, to return you to your usual programming and actually get back to the point I was making.
I spoke with the manager of Specialist Games, who confirmed that Enforcers would be a playable faction for Necromunda, along with 'a whole host of other ideas I've been mulling over'. He seemed very much for inclusion and against exclusion, with regards the weird and wonderful and shadowy corners of the 40k universe and old ideas and concepts.
Which would be amazing as I'd love an all zoat gang!!
streetsamurai wrote: If I'm understanding correctly, juves can never be equiped with anytghing else than pistols and cc weapons no matter how much xp they gain?
They become Champions at the end of a campaign if they have over 5XP. Then can be equipped like champions
I don't recall them ever being referred to as 'Arbites Enforcers', to be honest. They certainly made the distinction in the fluff between Arbites and local Enforcers, and the model page copied on Stuff of Legends just lists them as 'Enforcers'.
Not to say they didn't, just that as far as I can recall the distinction was always there.
Good to hear. Question is, will they go the "these particular Enforcers are basically Arbites cosplayers" route again or will the Enforcers have a more distinct design this time? I could live with either btw.
Re the Goliaths... they haven't aged nearly as well as the old Escher stuff IMO. New plastics look A LOT better lol. I don't mind scale creep if it improves the appearance of a model.
angelofvengeance wrote: Re the Goliaths... they haven't aged nearly as well as the old Escher stuff IMO. New plastics look A LOT better lol. I don't mind scale creep if it improves the appearance of a model.
The plastic Goliaths were pretty horrible even by '90s standards. Most people binned them and just used the metal models.
insaniak wrote:I don't recall them ever being referred to as 'Arbites Enforcers', to be honest. They certainly made the distinction in the fluff between Arbites and local Enforcers, and the model page copied on Stuff of Legends just lists them as 'Enforcers'.
Not to say they didn't, just that as far as I can recall the distinction was always there.
I think even Andy Chambers mixed up the terms at some stage in off the cuff talk, but yes, as a 'thing' officially they are and have been for quite some time, distinct.
Good to hear. Question is, will they go the "these particular Enforcers are basically Arbites cosplayers" route again or will the Enforcers have a more distinct design this time? I could live with either btw.
Unknown and I would doubt they've even gone beyond several concept sketches yet, but given what we've seen of the three gangs so far, I am more than content to assume they'll look great. As I said, Orlocks did nothing at all for me in their previous incarnation, I love the new range.
insaniak wrote:
angelofvengeance wrote: Re the Goliaths... they haven't aged nearly as well as the old Escher stuff IMO. New plastics look A LOT better lol. I don't mind scale creep if it improves the appearance of a model.
The plastic Goliaths were pretty horrible even by '90s standards. Most people binned them and just used the metal models.
Yep, ask anyone who lived through the Red Age and they'll tell you they had at least one goliath, possibly missing a limb, inexplicably lurking at the bottom of their bits box... I knew two Goliath players, neither used the plastics from the set. They weren't a sharp sculpt and the pose was... 'not good'.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And for anyone chaffing about the waiting times for the rest of the gangs... In fairness it's not that long and we have people willing to lay down hundreds or thousands of dollars on kickstarters which may or may not deliver in several years time.
This game and Blood Bowl are having to compete for plastic manufacture against releases from AoS and 40k, so I'm personally happy to support the specialist games 'underdog' in that fight for production and spend my money on it, a gang is a whole different thing to buy into than an army. These are all nice models and even if I don't use them all for Necromunda, there's enormous conversion potential.
I'm almost tempted to sell off some or all of my metal models and just use the cash to buy some of the new plastics with the old rules. Genestealer Cults with less/no emphasis on the gribblies would make a great immediate and characterful Delaque Gang, and things like the Escher chem-thrower could easily be proxied as old weapons for the moment (flamer in this case).
My games of old barely went too far into campaigns, and half the time it was just me and a close buddy, so the lack of juve models would not a big deal right now.
Most of my old plastic goliaths got used up as my entry into converting (at least after my Tyranid Attack/Adv. Space Crusade models). One's head got stuck on a metal Kharn body for a custom Chaos Lord, which I could still use today!
insaniak wrote: I don't recall them ever being referred to as 'Arbites Enforcers', to be honest. They certainly made the distinction in the fluff between Arbites and local Enforcers, and the model page copied on Stuff of Legends just lists them as 'Enforcers'.
Not to say they didn't, just that as far as I can recall the distinction was always there.
Eh. It wasn't. The original models were Adeptus Arbites. The original rules were for Adeptus Arbites.
Then someone decided to rejig the fluff and say that Arbites were "above all that stuff noooo THESE are Enforcers. They were all along."
However you dress them or what you call them, they're fun Judge Dredd ripoffs that people want back. That they changed the name and fluff is immaterial. It's not grounds for being silly and saying "no, no Arbitrators" when many people remember them as only that. That's just being smug and misleading people excited for your product. Could have a fun conversation and 'educate them' about the updated fluff... or send someone away disappointed. Odd choice to do the latter, if you ask me, but it seems there are a tonne of odd choices in this iteration.
streetsamurai wrote: If I'm understanding correctly, juves can never be equiped with anytghing else than pistols and cc weapons no matter how much xp they gain?
They become Champions at the end of a campaign if they have over 5XP. Then can be equipped like champions
Five advances, not experience. That is, characteristic increases or skills. Considering they advance like Champions (but without the additional XPcost for existing advances) that’s a minimum of fifteen experience points, or fifteen games using the standard scenarios.
Got about two sets of the original plastic Necromunda minis. With the advent of the Ork kits in 3rd ed and beyond converting them became very easy. With (a lot of) cutting, I've made all sorts of special weapons and assorted heavies and whatnot out of those Goliaths.
Kanluwen wrote: Might it be planned that after the books are released they'll do similar?
Which gives me even less impetus to purchase future Gang War books.
My games of old barely went too far into campaigns, and half the time it was just me and a close buddy, so the lack of juve models would not a big deal right now.
A lack of juve models is fairly easy to get around anyway. For a time, I was using an 'Orlock' gang made up of Rogue Trader plastic guardsmen. The Juves just had a white strip painted on their back.
When I eventually replaced those models with plastic Orlocks, I painted the 'Juves' scarves white.
I've also seen people use ganger models and just write 'Juve' on the side of the base.
insaniak wrote: I don't recall them ever being referred to as 'Arbites Enforcers', to be honest. They certainly made the distinction in the fluff between Arbites and local Enforcers, and the model page copied on Stuff of Legends just lists them as 'Enforcers'.
Not to say they didn't, just that as far as I can recall the distinction was always there.
Eh. It wasn't. The original models were Adeptus Arbites. The original rules were for Adeptus Arbites.
Then someone decided to rejig the fluff and say that Arbites were "above all that stuff noooo THESE are Enforcers. They were all along."
However you dress them or what you call them, they're fun Judge Dredd ripoffs that people want back. That they changed the name and fluff is immaterial. It's not grounds for being silly and saying "no, no Arbitrators" when many people remember them as only that. That's just being smug and misleading people excited for your product. Could have a fun conversation and 'educate them' about the updated fluff... or send someone away disappointed. Odd choice to do the latter, if you ask me, but it seems there are a tonne of odd choices in this iteration.
No; the Battles in the Underhive book had rules for Adeptus Arbites, using the available (at the time) Adeptus Arbites models from 40k. They had several major benefits over gangs - no need to take ammo rolls, were immune to the penatlies for wearing carapace armour, all came with three skills at the outset and they all casued fear, and they weren't intended to be used as a regular force by one player.
The Necromunda Enforcers, introduced in Fanatic Magazine 1 several years later, were explicitly not Arbites (although they were said to ape the look), and were significantly less impressive than the Arbites in a fight. I suspect that someone knocked up the Enforcer models as training pieces intending them to be Arbites, and they were swiped by the Specialist Games team when no-one else wanted them for anything (in the same way as the kneeling Armageddon Steel Legion guardsman became an "ash waste nomad sniper", or there was a random Farseer roaming the underhive for no good reason).
Hopefully, if Arbites make a comeback it'll be in 40k where they belong, and any new Enforcers will look different. Apart from anything else, the ones we had in the 2nd edition were House Helmawr's Enforcers, while the ones we've had mention of in this new edition are those of a different hive controlled by a different political faction - it's even true to the setting to have them look different!
GSC and Chaos Cult are probably be as basic like the legacy gang. No special character like Magus, Primus or Patriarch, or even a Purestrain Genstealer. And Deamonic ritual in case of Chaos cult.
Genetealers were already uncommon. You could get 2, but usually could only afford 1. And Hybrids were expensive as well. The bulk of your gang were Broodbrothers.
schoon wrote: I'm liking where Necromunda Underhive is going, but I can't help wonder what's going to become of SWA...
I expect it will quietly fade away, like it was always intended to do. It was a one-off splash release that got extra legs because of unexpected demand. Now that Necromunda is here to scratch the skirmish itch, I very much doubt they'll waste any more time on SWA.
SWA was a joke in comparison. It was a complete failure in terms of campaign and what worked for it was just copy-paste from old Necromunda. The only good thing about it was the vastly different races so you could have a lot more variation than old Necromunda.
Not sure if this has been brought up in the thread before, but last night I decided to crack open both gang card decks, expecting near-identical sets with just some gang-specific cards in there. Instead, blank ganger cards aside, both sets contain unique cards not shared by the other deck. I still need to check these against the cards found in the main set itself, but this does soften the blow for me personally that I may have ended up with a crapton of duplicate cards.
Chances are that, while annoying, the upcoming Orlock gang cards will also have unique cards in there that may be worth owning, even if you do not want to play Orlock yourself.
edit.
Just checked the cards in the core game itself, nice! The gang cards are all unique, so no doubles with the gang decks and the generic tactics cards come in twos (one set for each gang), but again, no duplicates from the gang decks, so both sides end up with nice big decks with no doubles in there.
Not a fan of this sales model myself, but with just the core set and the gang decks put together I may have enough cards per gang (34) to play the game without too much hassle, or feeling the need to immediately buy more packs. Though it remains to be seen what kind of stuff the Orlock cards will bring to the table, as both of these decks right now already manage to shake things up a quite a bit in their own way.
I especially like how the Escher deck features the "A BAD DAY" card, whereas the Goliath deck has the "A GOOD DAY" card.
Also, be ware that some cards may feature a poorly done copy-paste bit. The Deadlock card, which interacts with doors, states that it cannot be used on Zone Mortalis boards and must be discarded when drawn for such a game, derp.
BrookM wrote: Also, be ware that some cards may feature a poorly done copy-paste bit. The Deadlock card, which interacts with doors, states that it cannot be used on Zone Mortalis boards and must be discarded when drawn for such a game, derp.
That one and Good Day are unplayable out of the box, yes. I mean, you could play Good Day, but why would you.
Rules question: When making a Charge action its says make a standard move, adding D3 to the move distance. If you move within 1" of an enemy you must move into base contact. Now I think this could be interpreted in 2 different ways, and I wanted to get other's opinions on it.
1) Your total move must be able to bring you into base contact, or you have to stop outside of an inch.
2) By bringing you within 1" the rules allow you to move the extra to place you in base contact - ie a charge to be successful only has to bring you to within 1".
Any thoughts/opinions? There may have been examples that clarify this that I have missed.
Baxx wrote: SWA was a joke in comparison. It was a complete failure in terms of campaign and what worked for it was just copy-paste from old Necromunda. The only good thing about it was the vastly different races so you could have a lot more variation than old Necromunda.
I don't think it was a joke as such, but more a victim of a lack of forethought. The demand clearly caught them by surprise, but they didn't really follow-up on any momentum. So the release itself (other than the lack of stock) was fine, it was what came after that left us so disappointed.
I mean clearly we and a lot of people wanted more of it. It sold out everywhere... but then nothing happened. Which is sad. And shortsighted. But mostly sad.
BrookM wrote: Also, be ware that some cards may feature a poorly done copy-paste bit. The Deadlock card, which interacts with doors, states that it cannot be used on Zone Mortalis boards and must be discarded when drawn for such a game, derp.
That one and Good Day are unplayable out of the box, yes. I mean, you could play Good Day, but why would you.
I may be interpreting the rules wrong, but this one gives your opponent a +2 on bottle test right? This may be a bastard card to play on a foe who needs to bottle out, but you want to keep them around a bit longer, so you can potentially put more of his fighters out of commission.
Baxx wrote: SWA was a joke in comparison. It was a complete failure in terms of campaign and what worked for it was just copy-paste from old Necromunda. The only good thing about it was the vastly different races so you could have a lot more variation than old Necromunda.
I don't think it was a joke as such, but more a victim of a lack of forethought. The demand clearly caught them by surprise, but they didn't really follow-up on any momentum. So the release itself (other than the lack of stock) was fine, it was what came after that left us so disappointed.
I mean clearly we and a lot of people wanted more of it. It sold out everywhere... but then nothing happened. Which is sad. And shortsighted. But mostly sad.
The rules just didn't work. You could lose your leader in the first game. You can't buy back anyone who costs more than 200. Now you're playing with useless grunts the rest of the campaign without any underdog bonuses. Yay! This is not a game that will become a classic, it is a game that will be forgotten the same year it was released.
xerxeshavelock wrote: Rules question: When making a Charge action its says make a standard move, adding D3 to the move distance. If you move within 1" of an enemy you must move into base contact. Now I think this could be interpreted in 2 different ways, and I wanted to get other's opinions on it.
1) Your total move must be able to bring you into base contact, or you have to stop outside of an inch.
2) By bringing you within 1" the rules allow you to move the extra to place you in base contact - ie a charge to be successful only has to bring you to within 1".
Any thoughts/opinions? There may have been examples that clarify this that I have missed.
It is option #1 and, further, you need to stay more than 1" from models that you don’t want to charge because you have to move into BtB with everyone you get close enough to.
The rules just didn't work. You could lose your leader in the first game. You can't buy back anyone who costs more than 200. Now you're playing with useless grunts the rest of the campaign without any underdog bonuses. Yay! This is not a game that will become a classic, it is a game that will be forgotten the same year it was released.
A general rule of thumb is if your leader go down in the first game it meant You played poorly, concede and make a new one
The only team that have 200+ recruit are GK and Tyranid.
Nid is the 2nd best team in the game (after Harlie ) so that's a good thing they can't get more Gunbeast easy.
GK is a high-mid tier gang (they might be top 5 ) with the best gun in the game (Hello sustained fire THREE that never run out of ammo)
You can recruit fighter that cost over 200 credit, but you need to roll skill, It's RNG, just like the RNG that kill your 200 credit fighter .
Overall SWA was never a skilled based game, it's a die luck roll fest, so if you care too much about winning, you're gonna have a baaaad time, Even if you play Harlie, which is the best of the best.
My Necromunda order arrived today, gonna pick it up tomorrow
For those curious, Statuesque Miniatures selection of heads go really well with the Escher:
Just drill a small hole into the neck for stability and glue in place.
Escher kit does lack plasma pistols though.. just one per sprue! Good thing I still have loads of Militarum Tempestus sprues with them on it. Not sure if dual plasma pistol is a good thing on a champion / hired gun, but feth it, rule of cool! And like hell am I going to use that chem-thrower, it looks horrible.
The chainsword on the boss is a count-as power sword by the way, at least until we can get them good and proper with book three or four somewhere down the line.
The rules just didn't work. You could lose your leader in the first game. You can't buy back anyone who costs more than 200. Now you're playing with useless grunts the rest of the campaign without any underdog bonuses. Yay! This is not a game that will become a classic, it is a game that will be forgotten the same year it was released.
A general rule of thumb is if your leader go down in the first game it meant You played poorly, concede and make a new one
The only team that have 200+ recruit are GK and Tyranid.
Nid is the 2nd best team in the game (after Harlie ) so that's a good thing they can't get more Gunbeast easy.
GK is a high-mid tier gang (they might be top 5 ) with the best gun in the game (Hello sustained fire THREE that never run out of ammo)
You can recruit fighter that cost over 200 credit, but you need to roll skill, It's RNG, just like the RNG that kill your 200 credit fighter .
Overall SWA was never a skilled based game, it's a die luck roll fest, so if you care too much about winning, you're gonna have a baaaad time, Even if you play Harlie, which is the best of the best.
My Necromunda order arrived today, gonna pick it up tomorrow
Sure you can recruit any fighter worth more than 200, but you could never spend more than 200. I could never buy back back my eldar leader or weapon platform, don't know about GK and tyranids, nobody played that in my group. I don't care about winning, I just care about not dying. So if your leader died 1st game, you restart. If your leader dies 2nd game, you restart. 3rd, 4th, 5th you restart. And so forth?
SWA is a "die luck roll fest", yet you have to play poorly to have your leader die? You can't play poorly but also not care too much about winning...
SWA campaign was a complete failure and most of the interest into the game was because it was a substitute for the real thing. The only part that worked was copy-paste of previous necromunda (clunky and out-dated). Now we got the real thing, and SWA will not be missed.
Your leader dies in Necromunda, that could be a very good thing. Suddenly your rating drops and a different player gets access to same weapons and skills. You could have a fighter who started out as a Juve, now got WS5 and BS5 promoted to leader for the same cost as the initial leader or even less.
Whenever you lose some valuable player, at least the rest of your gang will level up faster because of it and you may earn additional money too for compensation.
SWA is a "die luck roll fest", yet you have to play poorly to have your leader die? You can't play poorly but also not care too much about winning...
With the Bottle roll and closest target in place it would be incredibly hard to down the leader before everyone else, and if your leader become exposed and risk at being shotdown, It's better to bottle out than stay and go down. This is where the playing poorly part come from. And even if that so, it would take you multiple roll : with only 1 result that lead to dead, that's where the "die roll" come from. Most of the time the mission is end with a bottle out, a wipe is usually a result of poor play. Bottle out early is also a tactic for low model count team like Nid/Harlie/GK : have 4 starting team, as soon as the 4th member go down, bottled out to keep your precious member alive.
Sure you can recruit any fighter worth more than 200, but you could never spend more than 200.
There are no limit of the amount of you can spend. If you roll "Scavenger" on the skill or mission you get +50 credit, up your total amount of credit you can spend to 200+. You also might have the skill to re-roll the serious injury result which reduce the chance that they're killed while you're trying to roll for Scavenger.
BrookM wrote: For those curious, Statuesque Miniatures selection of heads go really well with the Escher:
Just drill a small hole into the neck for stability and glue in place.
Escher kit does lack plasma pistols though.. just one per sprue! Good thing I still have loads of Militarum Tempestus sprues with them on it. Not sure if dual plasma pistol is a good thing on a champion / hired gun, but feth it, rule of cool! And like hell am I going to use that chem-thrower, it looks horrible.
The chainsword on the boss is a count-as power sword by the way, at least until we can get them good and proper with book three or four somewhere down the line.
These look good- for some reason, paramilitary fascist Escher look surprisingly awesome. I hope the Escher heads and arms fit on the Orlock bodies, although there really should've been a couple of female Orlocks on the sprue as standard.
Thank you for posting a picture next to a scion. Kind of gives us an idea of how tall they are compared to guardsmen. Eschers/Orlock might actually work as hive gangers after all.
Haighus wrote: These look good- for some reason, paramilitary fascist Escher look surprisingly awesome. I hope the Escher heads and arms fit on the Orlock bodies, although there really should've been a couple of female Orlocks on the sprue as standard.
I like to think she stole it during a raid on a supply dump or the like. Or maybe it belonged to a former soldier who returned to the hive with some mementos.
As for the Orlock thing, heads maybe, but I very much doubt arms.
Haighus wrote: Brook, I can see a Sister of Silence in that scale pic, are the parts compatible with the Escher?
They're about the same height and build, can't remember how the arms go onto the sisters, but it shouldn't be too hard to put sister heads on Escher bodies, just drill out the neck a bit to allow for the neck to sink in properly.
Haighus wrote: These look good- for some reason, paramilitary fascist Escher look surprisingly awesome. I hope the Escher heads and arms fit on the Orlock bodies, although there really should've been a couple of female Orlocks on the sprue as standard.
I like to think she stole it during a raid on a supply dump or the like. Or maybe it belonged to a former soldier who returned to the hive with some mementos.
As for the Orlock thing, heads maybe, but I very much doubt arms.
Haighus wrote: Brook, I can see a Sister of Silence in that scale pic, are the parts compatible with the Escher?
They're about the same height and build, can't remember how the arms go onto the sisters, but it shouldn't be too hard to put sister heads on Escher bodies, just drill out the neck a bit to allow for the neck to sink in properly.
Excellent, thanks. Could make some interesting combos by combining the two, for Inquisitors etc.
If doing visa-versa, so Escher heads on Sister bodies, the lack of a neck may be a bit of a problem, as all Necromunda heads have no necks, just flat connecting parts.
Crimson wrote: I really wish they would make similar unit entry for 8th edition 40K.
It would be a great idea and no reason not to do it - they have done some bits and pieces from Shadespire for AOS so maybe they will. Suggest it on facebook maybe.
Kanluwen wrote: Might it be planned that after the books are released they'll do similar?
Which gives me even less impetus to purchase future Gang War books.
Given that SG's pedigree is from the Forge World stable, not Citadel (GW Prime), we can likely assume the individual books will all contain a measure of background, storytelling and artwork (and quite possibly scenarios etc) that will be stripped out for the 'compendium' style book that will be released... at some stage... long after they're all completed. In much the same way as we see the lil red HH books containing bare bones rather than the black, ribbed for her pleasure, all singing all dancing works of art that are the Big Black Books for HH.
Personally, with that in mind, I'm happy to get the Gang War books as they are released.
Escher kit does lack plasma pistols though.. just one per sprue! Good thing I still have loads of Militarum Tempestus sprues with them on it. Not sure if dual plasma pistol is a good thing on a champion / hired gun, but feth it, rule of cool! And like hell am I going to use that chem-thrower, it looks horrible.
The chainsword on the boss is a count-as power sword by the way, at least until we can get them good and proper with book three or four somewhere down the line.
Goliath have the same problem with Stub guns, one per sprue - luckily I managed to find the one single bits retailer who's bothering to stock Necro bits and bought all five of the ones they had
At this point I've resolved to view Necromunda as a modelling project first & foremost. It's a shame as I never got to play the original as much as I'd have liked(my group were Mordheim fanatics, myself included to be fair), but if it comes down to a choice between models and rules I'll pick models every time, there are already plenty of decent rulesets out there for the rare occasion I actually get a game. If they do a BB-style Almanac/Annual next year that compiles all the Gang War and WD material - and I mean *all*, or else what's the point - I'll pick that up and give the game a shot then.
Kanluwen wrote: Might it be planned that after the books are released they'll do similar?
Which gives me even less impetus to purchase future Gang War books.
Given that SG's pedigree is from the Forge World stable, not Citadel (GW Prime), we can likely assume the individual books will all contain a measure of background, storytelling and artwork (and quite possibly scenarios etc) that will be stripped out for the 'compendium' style book that will be released... at some stage... long after they're all completed. In much the same way as we see the lil red HH books containing bare bones rather than the black, ribbed for her pleasure, all singing all dancing works of art that are the Big Black Books for HH.
Personally, with that in mind, I'm happy to get the Gang War books as they are released.
Eh, that was maybe a selling point before the internet existed, but all the fluff will be up word-for-word on wikis not long after the books come out and the artwork will show up on pinterest et al. I mean crikey, I could just borrow a copy off a mate, read it, and snap any bits of art I want to refer back to with my phone. The actual *value* in the Gang War books is the rules, and if those end up collected in a more convenient volume later on that's not very much value unless you absolutely have to play the game right now now now and nobody you play with has them.
It's also very much more a modelling project for me, nobody else locally picked it up, which I suppose means more boxes for me sooner or later, as chances are I'll be getting another box of Escher for some cheap juves down the road.
That said, I am disappointed with the lack of options on the sprues, aside from plenty of core choices, like lasguns and stubcannons, the rest is rather barren.
I like the models, it's just a shame that it is all so limited. Things are thankfully wonderfully modular, but when there are only so many parts on the sprue, there's only so much you can do with it all before you violate the one Steve limit.
BrookM wrote: That said, I am disappointed with the lack of options on the sprues, aside from plenty of core choices, like lasguns and stubcannons, the rest is rather barren.
I like the models, it's just a shame that it is all so limited. Things are thankfully wonderfully modular, but when there are only so many parts on the sprue, there's only so much you can do with it all before you violate the one Steve limit.
Forge World will cover that with weapon releases. Their aim is to let you pick basically anything from the trading post, not just the 'signature weapons', and go from there.
Given that SG's pedigree is from the Forge World stable, not Citadel (GW Prime), we can likely assume the individual books will all contain a measure of background, storytelling and artwork (and quite possibly scenarios etc) that will be stripped out for the 'compendium' style book that will be released... at some stage... long after they're all completed. In much the same way as we see the lil red HH books containing bare bones rather than the black, ribbed for her pleasure, all singing all dancing works of art that are the Big Black Books for HH.
Personally, with that in mind, I'm happy to get the Gang War books as they are released.
Eh, that was maybe a selling point before the internet existed, but all the fluff will be up word-for-word on wikis not long after the books come out and the artwork will show up on pinterest et al. I mean crikey, I could just borrow a copy off a mate, read it, and snap any bits of art I want to refer back to with my phone. The actual *value* in the Gang War books is the rules, and if those end up collected in a more convenient volume later on that's not very much value unless you absolutely have to play the game right now now now and nobody you play with has them.
Right, which is why FW abandoned their black books, stopped doing Imperial Armour, GW ceased creating campaigns etc etc and all books stopped existing due to the internet, PDFs and the Kindle...
@ 
