BrookM wrote: That said, I am disappointed with the lack of options on the sprues, aside from plenty of core choices, like lasguns and stubcannons, the rest is rather barren.
I like the models, it's just a shame that it is all so limited. Things are thankfully wonderfully modular, but when there are only so many parts on the sprue, there's only so much you can do with it all before you violate the one Steve limit.
Forge World will cover that with weapon releases. Their aim is to let you pick basically anything from the trading post, not just the 'signature weapons', and go from there.
But knowing FW it will take them quite a while to get it out and the quality of the parts will be a gamble as always.
Given that SG's pedigree is from the Forge World stable, not Citadel (GW Prime), we can likely assume the individual books will all contain a measure of background, storytelling and artwork (and quite possibly scenarios etc) that will be stripped out for the 'compendium' style book that will be released... at some stage... long after they're all completed. In much the same way as we see the lil red HH books containing bare bones rather than the black, ribbed for her pleasure, all singing all dancing works of art that are the Big Black Books for HH.
Personally, with that in mind, I'm happy to get the Gang War books as they are released.
Eh, that was maybe a selling point before the internet existed, but all the fluff will be up word-for-word on wikis not long after the books come out and the artwork will show up on pinterest et al. I mean crikey, I could just borrow a copy off a mate, read it, and snap any bits of art I want to refer back to with my phone. The actual *value* in the Gang War books is the rules, and if those end up collected in a more convenient volume later on that's not very much value unless you absolutely have to play the game right now now now and nobody you play with has them.
Right, which is why FW abandoned their black books, stopped doing Imperial Armour, GW ceased creating campaigns etc etc and all books stopped existing due to the internet, PDFs and the Kindle...
Welcome to the paperless society.
What's your point here? I mean, other than the obvious facetious trolling sarcasm that doesn't actually address the point or contribute to the discussion.
Plenty of people willingly buy diamonds, a lump of compressed carbon indistinguishable to the naked and untrained eye from much cheaper crystals, not because it's actually rare but because a cartel has used decades of misinformation and lobbied regulation to create a false impression of rarity and exclusivity to such an extent that people still want them *even after they've been shown how the trick works*. Whether or not a thing continues to exist and make money has no bearing on its actual value because people are, by and large, pretentious apes.
If you can access all the fluff and image content without buying the books, their value is diminished by any sane, rational measure, and if the rules content will later be collected in a more convenient format potentially even at a discount their value drops further still. Some people will buy them, just as some people continue to buy diamonds, but that doesn't change the reality.
I really like the new rules, and I plan to buy all the gang wars book, but it,'s obvious this will turn into a rule clustef**k where you have to carry a dozen books, each with a different trading post, and a few hired guns.
I'll also say that the fluff in the main book seems to be new. Though I hope thee next gang wars book will have more fluff cause the first one is pretty barren on this side
streetsamurai wrote: I really like the new rules, and I plan to buy all the gang wars book, but it,'s obvious this will turn into a rule clustef**k where you have to carry a dozen books, each with a different trading post, and a few hired guns.
The Catch-22 is that many people will wait until they collect all the rules into a big book, but GW will never bring out such a book if no one buys the individual Gang War books. So, I salute you good sir!
I picked up the main box today and looking at the equipment selection for the gangs it seems very sparse, are there no chainswords? Or is there another common equipment page somewhere in the book? Or do you have to pick up Gangwars for a larger list of equipment?
yeah it's a damn shame that GW decided to release an incomplete game, but I've been clamoring for the return of Necro for years if not decades, so I'll do anything in my power to make it a success.
streetsamurai wrote: I really like the new rules, and I plan to buy all the gang wars book, but it,'s obvious this will turn into a rule clustef**k where you have to carry a dozen books, each with a different trading post, and a few hired guns.
I'll also say that the fluff in the main book seems to be new. Though I hope thee next gang wars book will have more fluff cause the first one is pretty barren on this side
Genuine question;
If the rules for my gang are spread over several books, why does that mean that I have to carry all of those books around with me? I ask because in my youth I played a lot of AD&D with loads of extra rules, complete class handbooks etc and never felt the need to do anything other than jot down the rules that applied to my character.
I make the analogy with an RPG because isn’t Necromunda really that kind of game? It’s not the kind of thing where you play pickup games against complete strangers and try to win at all cost. At least it isn’t the way I’m going to play it.
Just to confirm to anyone curious, Escher arms fit pretty perfectly on Shieldwolf Shield Maidens, so if like me you have a load of sprues of those going spare as you've built what you wanted for fantasy, an Amazonian style Guard force is doable.
streetsamurai wrote: I really like the new rules, and I plan to buy all the gang wars book, but it,'s obvious this will turn into a rule clustef**k where you have to carry a dozen books, each with a different trading post, and a few hired guns.
I'll also say that the fluff in the main book seems to be new. Though I hope thee next gang wars book will have more fluff cause the first one is pretty barren on this side
Genuine question;
If the rules for my gang are spread over several books, why does that mean that I have to carry all of those books around with me? I ask because in my youth I played a lot of AD&D with loads of extra rules, complete class handbooks etc and never felt the need to do anything other than jot down the rules that applied to my character.
I make the analogy with an RPG because isn’t Necromunda really that kind of game? It’s not the kind of thing where you play pickup games against complete strangers and try to win at all cost. At least it isn’t the way I’m going to play it.
Depends on who you play with. If you have a regular group who know and trust each other I doubt anyone would care or object to you just writing down or photocopying the specific info you need. If you play in GW store though that won't fly they will insist you own the content and bring it with you, and sadly even at independent game clubs you will run into the odd self-righteous arse who demands you "prove" to them you didn't just look the info up online.
I'm not gonna ask anyone to prove they own the rules, but if a rules question comes up and I don't have the book and all they have are some dodgy hand-written notes I'm going to ask them to prove the rules or stats they are referring to are legitimate.
streetsamurai wrote: I really like the new rules, and I plan to buy all the gang wars book, but it,'s obvious this will turn into a rule clustef**k where you have to carry a dozen books, each with a different trading post, and a few hired guns.
I'll also say that the fluff in the main book seems to be new. Though I hope thee next gang wars book will have more fluff cause the first one is pretty barren on this side
Genuine question;
If the rules for my gang are spread over several books, why does that mean that I have to carry all of those books around with me? I ask because in my youth I played a lot of AD&D with loads of extra rules, complete class handbooks etc and never felt the need to do anything other than jot down the rules that applied to my character.
I make the analogy with an RPG because isn’t Necromunda really that kind of game? It’s not the kind of thing where you play pickup games against complete strangers and try to win at all cost. At least it isn’t the way I’m going to play it.
Yes, this is the issue with many gamers who haven't played a casual game in so long they forget what it's like not to have to prove the other player wrong with a rule book. :-)
I sense my next project being house Orlock Gangers being pressed into service as Armageddon Hive Defense Conscripts!
They seem a perfect fit for Brood Brothers to me. Well, after ditching the wacky harpoon and getting that guy a gun. But I can live with one wacky weapon in a boxed set.
Arm the miners! The Revenuers are coming!
Also they seem largely shorn of much of the typical 40k paraphernalia that makes GW models annoying to use in other games, and will fight right into any game from modern to near future to sci-fi.
Also they seem largely shorn of much of the typical 40k paraphernalia that makes GW models annoying to use in other games, and will fight right into any game from modern to near future to sci-fi.
Also they seem largely shorn of much of the typical 40k paraphernalia that makes GW models annoying to use in other games, and will fight right into any game from modern to near future to sci-fi.
Except for the skull belt buckles...
Actually pretty tame by Warhammer standards. Given the biker gang/ space pirate look, I can live with it.
Dr. Mills wrote: I sense my next project being house Orlock Gangers being pressed into service as Armageddon Hive Defense Conscripts!
They seem a perfect fit for Brood Brothers to me.
That's the benefit of them being so generic. And I know that sounds like a dig at the miniatures, but it really isn't. The Orlocks were the jack of all trades gang, and these modular excellent plastics are, in effect, a jack of all trades human miniature, capable of being used for a whole range of different things with minimal converting, and maybe a bit of kit bashing. They're fantastic.
The new Goliaths are the best version of a concept I was never 100% on board with to begin with, I don't think the Eschers live up to Jes' originals, and while I like both new gangs the Orlocks are by far my fav of the bunch so far. I do hope my Delaques are treated as well.
And if we're not allowed a Lascannon again (and who could blame them, it is a silly weapon) then give us a man-portable Multi-Laser!!!
Voss wrote: Well, after ditching the wacky harpoon and getting that guy a gun. But I can live with one wacky weapon in a boxed set.
He does have a 'real' gun. Orlocks get a Heavy Stubber in the box.
I'm hoping the guy with the harpoon can reel folk in, so his pal can smack 'em round the head with that power glove. Or drag them off ledges or through pools of toxic waste.
The good- the box is topped off with more then you'd expect. You have enough to keep you busy for quite a bit. The figures are perfect. a little bigger then the new ones, but on par with the new figures of other ranges in the GW stable. You KNOW what that means.
The bad- The price. The scattered rules. the change in tempo, and dumbing down of the game. Lucky I'm good, but the deal with the rules books is going to be a kick in the nuts as long as they keep going there. In the end, its a SOP GW landgrab. great game, but a money sink. If you are the one with that ready made genestealer cult, your already half way there. If you have older models/ gangs, you are good to. a few rules tweaks, and your in familiar territory.
I will of course be playing with my house rule- if I capture you, I'm taking all of your stuff, and selling you to the scaveys, unless there is an incentive not to eat you myself.
I'll be adding in the goliath weapons and parts to my Blood Guild gang, that are cultists of Khorne.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
AndrewGPaul wrote: I'm hoping the guy with the harpoon can reel folk in, so his pal can smack 'em round the head with that power glove. Or drag them off ledges or through pools of toxic waste.
I sense my next project being house Orlock Gangers being pressed into service as Armageddon Hive Defense Conscripts!
They seem a perfect fit for Brood Brothers to me. Well, after ditching the wacky harpoon and getting that guy a gun. But I can live with one wacky weapon in a boxed set.
Arm the miners! The Revenuers are coming!
Also they seem largely shorn of much of the typical 40k paraphernalia that makes GW models annoying to use in other games, and will fight right into any game from modern to near future to sci-fi.
Yes. They are absolutely perfect for adding in the Stealer parts to. 3d and 4th strain figs, of course, but you can add in a bit of greenstuff and the Nid parts, and you will have any strain that you want. Make sure you get a couple of those trucks, and a few trap doors.... Your going to need more then a few. Nothing says I love you more then popping up behind the gangers, and getting their throats cut, or stabby stabbed, or... captured, and used as spawn meat.
On the subject of the 'phased rules' introduction.....
Do feedback to GW.
Me, I'm not opposed to an annual or biannual injection of new rules. Not only can it keep stuff fresh for us, but also provides opportunities to fully publish errata and FAQs etc. In a way, these books seem somewhere between the concept of a Codex or Battletome, and an irregular 'fanzine' such as Fanatic! used to produce.
But, I for one want a bit more content. Gang War 1 is of course quite busy as things go, as it's introducing the campaign and Sector Mechanicus rules. So that's definitely content I want - but is it a level of content I'm going to keep paying for every few months?
Gang War 2? It needs to have much, much more content than just Orlocks, Hive Scum and those new tiles. Now that's not to say that's all we're set to get (we don't really know at this stage), but I'm certainly hoping that's not the sum of it.
I can see why they're doing this approach. It's a way to a steady Necromunda revenue, traditionally a weakness of their Specialist Games wing. Gives us a reason to keep spending our pennies on that game. But it's a release model that's had a lukewarm reception at best.
If it is indeed a necessity, tell GW what you would be happy to pay for in that regard. Let them know where your threshold is.
Yeah, I'm not opposed to the business model at all, I like a steady stream of content, but the devil is in the details... ie how much content is in each book and the release schedule.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: yes but also considerable scope for cross pollination from GSC, IG, AM and so on sprues, so I feel we have a lot of leeway for conversion.
THIS. weapons are the same. You will be fine with your Bitz Box.
Me, I'm not opposed to an annual or biannual injection of new rules. Not only can it keep stuff fresh for us, but also provides opportunities to fully publish errata and FAQs etc. In a way, these books seem somewhere between the concept of a Codex or Battletome, and an irregular 'fanzine' such as Fanatic! used to produce.
But, I for one want a bit more content. Gang War 1 is of course quite busy as things go, as it's introducing the campaign and Sector Mechanicus rules. So that's definitely content I want - but is it a level of content I'm going to keep paying for every few months?
Gang War 2? It needs to have much, much more content than just Orlocks, Hive Scum and those new tiles. Now that's not to say that's all we're set to get (we don't really know at this stage), but I'm certainly hoping that's not the sum of it.
I can see why they're doing this approach. It's a way to a steady Necromunda revenue, traditionally a weakness of their Specialist Games wing. Gives us a reason to keep spending our pennies on that game. But it's a release model that's had a lukewarm reception at best.
If it is indeed a necessity, tell GW what you would be happy to pay for in that regard. Let them know where your threshold is.
Another thing your going to need to do is to punch 3 holes in, so you can keep them in a binder. If what I was told today is true, this book thing is going to continue. they are going to come up with a gak load for the rest of the gangs, and the outriders, as well... steady streams, and side snacks, with the add on characters.
The new WD talks about the Blood Bowl Annual Almanac, which collects ALL of the additional content for Blood Bowl that has been published so far, including the Death Zone books and all WD rules and even the weather tables that came with specific Blood Bowl pitches.
I imagine they might take the same route with Necromunda.
Even though I have all of that BB content, I'm probably still going to buy the BB Almanac, and most likely will for Necromunda, too.
ekwatts wrote: The new WD talks about the Blood Bowl Annual Almanac, which collects ALL of the additional content for Blood Bowl that has been published so far, including the Death Zone books and all WD rules and even the weather tables that came with specific Blood Bowl pitches.
I imagine they might take the same route with Necromunda.
Even though I have all of that BB content, I'm probably still going to buy the BB Almanac, and most likely will for Necromunda, too.
I'd be surprised if they didn't.
Maniacs like myself that buy as it's released can ignore. But for people not there at the beginning or slightly more spending savvy? They also mean GW need only keep one or two books in print, rather than half a dozen or so.
Many of the classic Citadel Miniatures Necromunda Gangers carry some pretty heavy duty and flamboyant firepower.
At present, there is a very limited number of heavy weapons available in the new edition. This is deliberate, and more
heavy weapons will be introduced in future supplements. Such weapons are not readily available to fresh-faced rookie
gangs with no Reputation!
This thing is working with BB - publishing rules twice a year, adding new layers and complications.
But - after seeing whats in first Gang War book - I have the same concerns like Mad Doc Grotsnik. Just wonder what more will be in the book. One gang, some NPCs and hired guns is definitely not enough. Another campaign with Special territories?
ekwatts wrote: The new WD talks about the Blood Bowl Annual Almanac, which collects ALL of the additional content for Blood Bowl that has been published so far, including the Death Zone books and all WD rules and even the weather tables that came with specific Blood Bowl pitches.
I imagine they might take the same route with Necromunda.
Even though I have all of that BB content, I'm probably still going to buy the BB Almanac, and most likely will for Necromunda, too.
I already made the almanac and I am impressed to see weather tables and most of the rest. There's still some bonuses to making the almanac yourself:
-You can edit mistakes directly (first books in Blood Bowl were full of them)
-You can edit cards directly (not many, but some)
-You don't have to wait a year for GW to do it for you
Other than that, they will still miss the complete list of star players and they'll probably not include the event cards and other limited cards.
ekwatts wrote: The new WD talks about the Blood Bowl Annual Almanac, which collects ALL of the additional content for Blood Bowl that has been published so far, including the Death Zone books and all WD rules and even the weather tables that came with specific Blood Bowl pitches.
I imagine they might take the same route with Necromunda.
Even though I have all of that BB content, I'm probably still going to buy the BB Almanac, and most likely will for Necromunda, too.
I'd be surprised if they didn't.
Maniacs like myself that buy as it's released can ignore. But for people not there at the beginning or slightly more spending savvy? They also mean GW need only keep one or two books in print, rather than half a dozen or so.
It looks like Necromunda is taking the production philosophy as well as the background from Rogue Trader days (1st edition 40k had the rulebook, then immediately new rules and amendments were published in White Dwarf. The first year or so were collected in the first Chapter Approved book (and at least these days they don't bother reprinting the ads ). Then we had more WD articles and the Compendium, then more and the Compilation (and the Realm of Chaos books and the three Ork books. They weren't so much compliations of WD articles as the WD articles were previews of the books). Then there was the wholesale revision of the Shooting and Close Combat phases and the vehicle rules, and the Battle Manual and Vehicle Manual. By the end, you had nine books (five or six of which were big heavy hardbacks) of rules, plus all the stuff in 8 years of White Dwarfs (and the Citi-Block tiles!) that was never compiled.
Hopefully Necromunda will be more structured than that.
New Orlocks look cool, could see myself taking them as a gang.
Zethnar wrote: I'm not gonna ask anyone to prove they own the rules, but if a rules question comes up and I don't have the book and all they have are some dodgy hand-written notes I'm going to ask them to prove the rules or stats they are referring to are legitimate.
I'd just use a phone/tablet and take screenshots of rules relevant to your gang? If it really comes down to that.
Many of the classic Citadel Miniatures Necromunda Gangers carry some pretty heavy duty and flamboyant firepower.
At present, there is a very limited number of heavy weapons available in the new edition. This is deliberate, and more
heavy weapons will be introduced in future supplements. Such weapons are not readily available to fresh-faced rookie
gangs with no Reputation!
This thing is working with BB - publishing rules twice a year, adding new layers and complications.
But - after seeing whats in first Gang War book - I have the same concerns like Mad Doc Grotsnik. Just wonder what more will be in the book. One gang, some NPCs and hired guns is definitely not enough. Another campaign with Special territories?
The only reason it works with Blood Bowl is because we got all the teams and star players already. GW spends ages releasing rules. Waiting 6 months until GW manages to release already existing rules? No way, play with it immediately just like you have been for many years. GW finally comes with a book with exiting "new" teams and star players? Meh, already have the teams and star players. Which is why there is not many complaining about Blood Bowl rules being so damn slow. We already got them!
Now we don't have any other option than to step down. Want to use heavy weapons just like you have for all years? You can't anymore because now you're a rookie who has to wait many months for GW to release rules for it.
Just got my copy and... would it kill GW to use standard card sizes like they did in Shadespire? Nobody makes card sleeves in that size. The Tactics cards don't need to be that size and the character cards would actually benefit from being a little larger (like the Walking Dead character cards).
streetsamurai wrote: I really like the new rules, and I plan to buy all the gang wars book, but it,'s obvious this will turn into a rule clustef**k where you have to carry a dozen books, each with a different trading post, and a few hired guns.
I'll also say that the fluff in the main book seems to be new. Though I hope thee next gang wars book will have more fluff cause the first one is pretty barren on this side
Genuine question;
If the rules for my gang are spread over several books, why does that mean that I have to carry all of those books around with me? I ask because in my youth I played a lot of AD&D with loads of extra rules, complete class handbooks etc and never felt the need to do anything other than jot down the rules that applied to my character.
I make the analogy with an RPG because isn’t Necromunda really that kind of game? It’s not the kind of thing where you play pickup games against complete strangers and try to win at all cost. At least it isn’t the way I’m going to play it.
Yes, this is the issue with many gamers who haven't played a casual game in so long they forget what it's like not to have to prove the other player wrong with a rule book. :-)
When I play pick up games... 40k, (Soon to be Necromunda) or whatever. If the person I am playing against said"I don't believe you! prove it! I need to see the book!" then I would say " You win, pack up my stuff and play someone else" no time for idiots like that.
The card size actually is a problem, so much so I prefer printing my own in magic size. That allows for printing my own versions of limited event cards. The cards I got from necromunda was partially damaged (marked) so you could notice it on the back. Some bonus cards I got for Blood Bowl got a noticable different shine to them so they were also visible on the back. Just making my own cards fixes all that.
The cards in Underhive are the same size as the larger cards from Warhammer Quest. According to BGG, you can use these sleeves (most seem to be for Dixit, but will have an extra 10mm sticking off the end). Not sure any of them have solid backs. The cardboard GW uses for cards gets damaged way too easily.
Me, I'm not opposed to an annual or biannual injection of new rules. Not only can it keep stuff fresh for us, but also provides opportunities to fully publish errata and FAQs etc. In a way, these books seem somewhere between the concept of a Codex or Battletome, and an irregular 'fanzine' such as Fanatic! used to produce.
But, I for one want a bit more content. Gang War 1 is of course quite busy as things go, as it's introducing the campaign and Sector Mechanicus rules. So that's definitely content I want - but is it a level of content I'm going to keep paying for every few months?
Gang War 2? It needs to have much, much more content than just Orlocks, Hive Scum and those new tiles. Now that's not to say that's all we're set to get (we don't really know at this stage), but I'm certainly hoping that's not the sum of it.
I can see why they're doing this approach. It's a way to a steady Necromunda revenue, traditionally a weakness of their Specialist Games wing. Gives us a reason to keep spending our pennies on that game. But it's a release model that's had a lukewarm reception at best.
If it is indeed a necessity, tell GW what you would be happy to pay for in that regard. Let them know where your threshold is.
It also has rules for Hanger ons and civilians IIRC
streetsamurai wrote: I really like the new rules, and I plan to buy all the gang wars book, but it,'s obvious this will turn into a rule clustef**k where you have to carry a dozen books, each with a different trading post, and a few hired guns.
I'll also say that the fluff in the main book seems to be new. Though I hope thee next gang wars book will have more fluff cause the first one is pretty barren on this side
Genuine question;
If the rules for my gang are spread over several books, why does that mean that I have to carry all of those books around with me? I ask because in my youth I played a lot of AD&D with loads of extra rules, complete class handbooks etc and never felt the need to do anything other than jot down the rules that applied to my character.
I make the analogy with an RPG because isn’t Necromunda really that kind of game? It’s not the kind of thing where you play pickup games against complete strangers and try to win at all cost. At least it isn’t the way I’m going to play it.
Yes, this is the issue with many gamers who haven't played a casual game in so long they forget what it's like not to have to prove the other player wrong with a rule book. :-)
When I play pick up games... 40k, (Soon to be Necromunda) or whatever. If the person I am playing against said"I don't believe you! prove it! I need to see the book!" then I would say " You win, pack up my stuff and play someone else" no time for idiots like that.
When I play pickup games against strangers I like to give them the benefit of the doubt about rules/armies I don't know - but if I'm really curious I look it up after the game. On the flip side, out of courtesy I always have all the rules for my army with me when I play against new people and certainly don't have any problem with them reading my rules mid-game if they're confused about how something works or are just surprised by a special gear/rule. With friends of course a much more casual atmosphere is expected and jotting down a special rule on the gang roster should be sufficient.
I'll only be really sad if they stick to just two gangs per Gang War book - that would add up fast.
Reading through the book so far and my only complaint is the lack of atmospheric landscape art. Lots of character profiles but not many images of the underhive. So many pictures from the original sparked my imagination of the environment - the danger and decay - but also the sense of scale and hidden treasures that might lie buried.
Gang War 2 will no doubt tease what gang will be next for Gang War 3, as the first Gang War book opened up with a report mentioning both the Escher and Goliath fighting, but the Orlock also being involved. No other gang was mentioned.
Dr. Mills wrote: I sense my next project being house Orlock Gangers being pressed into service as Armageddon Hive Defense Conscripts!
They seem a perfect fit for Brood Brothers to me.
That's the benefit of them being so generic. And I know that sounds like a dig at the miniatures, but it really isn't. The Orlocks were the jack of all trades gang, and these modular excellent plastics are, in effect, a jack of all trades human miniature, capable of being used for a whole range of different things with minimal converting, and maybe a bit of kit bashing. They're fantastic.
The new Goliaths are the best version of a concept I was never 100% on board with to begin with, I don't think the Eschers live up to Jes' originals, and while I like both new gangs the Orlocks are by far my fav of the bunch so far. I do hope my Delaques are treated as well.
I feel the same way. Goliaths are certainly living up to their name, but... I don't want that.
The Eschers are... off. Its partly the outfits and the shoes, but also the proportions and the CAD. Somehow they aimed for 'buff and skinny' at the same time and ended up with 'chunky.'
But then I haven't liked a single GWCAD model that has tried to show off a lot of flesh and muscle. They never look right, and the highlights in the 'for photography' paint jobs make 'em look worse.
The Khornate Bloodinators from AoS are particularly harmed by both the CAD and the paint jobs: I'm convinced that torsos shouldn't look like an inverted pyramid festooned with rows of lumps.
Cryptek of Awesome wrote: I'll only be really sad if they stick to just two gangs per Gang War book - that would add up fast.
Everything I've read seems to indicate that Orlocks will be the only gang in Gang War 2. Has another gang been confirmed for gwar2 anywhere?
Whoa - I think I just assumed that from having two gangs in the first set of rules and seeing concept art for two more gangs. Wow - one gang only in GW2? That seems really slow.
Cryptek of Awesome wrote: I'll only be really sad if they stick to just two gangs per Gang War book - that would add up fast.
Everything I've read seems to indicate that Orlocks will be the only gang in Gang War 2. Has another gang been confirmed for gwar2 anywhere?
Whoa - I think I just assumed that from having two gangs in the first set of rules and seeing concept art for two more gangs. Wow - one gang only in GW2? That seems really slow.
Expensive and annoying more than slow. Remember, around the time of Gwar2 (~3 months from now), we expect the two cultist lists, and around the time of Gwar3 (~6 months from now) we expect the bounty hunters list, so within 6 months of the release there will be 6 full lists including 3 new plastic gangs, and 4 legacy gangs available. I don't like the release schedule they're following, but I get why they're structuring like they are (they want the printed core gangs full of unique equipment rather than being 6 variants of the same list).
At least the release schedule is much fast than Blood Bowl.
I'm hoping GW puts the legacy gangs up for print on demand sooner rather than later.
Cryptek of Awesome wrote: I'll only be really sad if they stick to just two gangs per Gang War book - that would add up fast.
Everything I've read seems to indicate that Orlocks will be the only gang in Gang War 2. Has another gang been confirmed for gwar2 anywhere?
Whoa - I think I just assumed that from having two gangs in the first set of rules and seeing concept art for two more gangs. Wow - one gang only in GW2? That seems really slow.
Expensive and annoying more than slow. Remember, around the time of Gwar2 (~3 months from now), we expect the two cultist lists, and around the time of Gwar3 (~6 months from now) we expect the bounty hunters list, so within 6 months of the release there will be 6 full lists including 3 new plastic gangs, and 4 legacy gangs available. I don't like the release schedule they're following, but I get why they're structuring like they are (they want the printed core gangs full of unique equipment rather than being 6 variants of the same list).
At least the release schedule is much fast than Blood Bowl.
I'm hoping GW puts the legacy gangs up for print on demand sooner rather than later.
I think it would be a pretty good schedule release if it wasn't for the fact that the game was released with only 2 gangs. That's unacceptable, even moreso for a company as big as GW
Cryptek of Awesome wrote: I'll only be really sad if they stick to just two gangs per Gang War book - that would add up fast.
Everything I've read seems to indicate that Orlocks will be the only gang in Gang War 2. Has another gang been confirmed for gwar2 anywhere?
Whoa - I think I just assumed that from having two gangs in the first set of rules and seeing concept art for two more gangs. Wow - one gang only in GW2? That seems really slow.
Expensive and annoying more than slow. Remember, around the time of Gwar2 (~3 months from now), we expect the two cultist lists, and around the time of Gwar3 (~6 months from now) we expect the bounty hunters list, so within 6 months of the release there will be 6 full lists including 3 new plastic gangs, and 4 legacy gangs available. I don't like the release schedule they're following, but I get why they're structuring like they are (they want the printed core gangs full of unique equipment rather than being 6 variants of the same list).
At least the release schedule is much fast than Blood Bowl.
I'm hoping GW puts the legacy gangs up for print on demand sooner rather than later.
And dilute the market for the incoming shiny plastics? I don't see it myself. Plus they'd be selling models they don't have rules in the Legacy pack for, so...
JohnnyHell wrote: And dilute the market for the incoming shiny plastics? I don't see it myself. Plus they'd be selling models they don't have rules in the Legacy pack for, so...
GW has done the print on demand for a fair bit of the blood bowl range already. If GW followed the blood bowl template, then it would just be the basic 8-man box sets re-released, which means that all of the equipment should be available in the legacy rules (think they all had a heavy stubber as the heavy in the box set).
Okay, starting with the Good - I love those models, and will be buying them. Hurray! (No, that is not a sarcastic Hurray!. I genuinely like all the models I have seen for the game.)
The Bad - if what I am reading on how the rules are coming out is correct.... I will not buy the danged rules until all the core gangs have their content. Which means I am not buying Gang War until next year.
The Ugly - which means that I will be running Oldermunda in a few weeks - but buying Underhive for the models and tiles. (The new Goliaths are literally head and shoulders above the older models, while the Escher have suffered a lot less scale creep than I had feared. And, honestly, given how much better the new Goliaths look than the old ones - I will quite happily live with that scale creep. They are head and shoulders better in quality, not just scale.)
If there is a compendium... I will be much happier.
decker_cky wrote: Blood bowl compendium is the 2 deathzones and all white dwarf rules (ie, not the basic core rules).
I'm hoping the core rules and the deck of cards become available outside the box set, since I don't like being forced to buy all the 2D game terrain.
Someone on Facebook posted a response from GW stating that they don't intend to release the rules outside the core box, even as digital. Which sounds utterly insane, but when people made that observation a bunch of shiny defenders leapt in to insist it was super clever of them and totally reasonable, so who knows.
Someone on Facebook posted a response from GW stating that they don't intend to release the rules outside the core box, even as digital. Which sounds utterly insane, but when people made that observation a bunch of shiny defenders leapt in to insist it was super clever of them and totally reasonable, so who knows.
Yeah, I read that. The positivity police make me consider leaving those groups. There's a lot GW has done right with the necromunda release. There's still a lot they could do to help the game succeed. Banning any posts that don't adequately praise GW is silly.
There's no positive reason to force players to buy a $150 box set to get half of a rulebook (for those who want to play 3d necromunda). GW makes a bit more money per player but it will result in a lot less players.
I usually give GW the benefit of the doubt online but I think phased releases of models and rules is totally wrong for a campaign-based game like Necromunda.
Our club has tried to have a blood bowl league. At least with blood bowl they gave us all of the rules at the start so we could actually design our teams. Then they released the models... never.
Now for necromunda it seems even more stupid not to even give people the full rules for their gangs. I mean ok, we've got the legacy gang rules to work with and some old models still kicking around but that's really not the same thing at all.
Shadespire is a good example of a game that can be trickled out over however long GW wants to spend on it. You can play it straight out of the box and each new release adds to the game, including refreshing old releases. With no campaign structure nobody misses out when a gang gets released later on.
But how can I even generate interest to start a campaign for necromunda at my club right now, with only 2/6 of the base gangs released? This just feels incredibly short sighted to me.
They are constrained by how much physical product they can produce - and how much their audience could bare at one time.
They are in it for the long haul, by month 3 or 4 there will be 5 gangs out and a 6th previewed. With, importantly, new stuff coming every quarter at least, for years.
The way they are releasing rules is a bit stupid, admittedly, but you only need one set of rules per group. Enticing new players in at £20 a pop shouldn't be too hard.
Cutting up the rules to release for years to come to get a product not much different from the ruleset that was available for free for 10 years before is pretty silly (although blood bowl has added a few new rules, one year in and two expansions in and it's still missing a number of rules that were part of CRP).
At the pace GW has set, will all the legacy outlander gangs be available in 2 years? Blood bowl is even worse - there's 31 official teams and GW releases 3 teams per year. It will take 10 years to release all the blood bowl teams!
GW needed:
-Rules available without a box set
-Get you by support for all legacy gangs (ie, released outlander models)
-Make old models available from the webstore.
That's all that's necessary for a mostly full game with full model support day 1 AND players have the opportunity to spend more money on GW models.
Vorian wrote: They are constrained by how much physical product they can produce - and how much their audience could bare at one time.
They are in it for the long haul, by month 3 or 4 there will be 5 gangs out and a 6th previewed. With, importantly, new stuff coming every quarter at least, for years.
The way they are releasing rules is a bit stupid, admittedly, but you only need one set of rules per group. Enticing new players in at £20 a pop shouldn't be too hard.
Necromunda will be fine.
That is something worth bearing in mind. We’ve had at least one rumour they’re approaching or have hit max capacity in the factory. So it could be more of necessity than we appreciate.
Honestly speaking, the pace they're going with the releases, particularly the plastics releases, don't make much sense when you check GW's demonstrated capabilities.
For example, the gang sprues: those are the same "small" sprues that have most units... but most units have two or three of those each. The plastics sprue is larger, but seems to be of a similar size of the sprues of a lot of vehicles.
IOW, they probably could have released sprues for all six houses and the same scenery sprues and it would have amounted to the same sprues that would have had a release with 2-3 new infantry boxes and a vehicle. That doesn't seem too much for GW, does it? But they have decided not to do so.
Not if you don't factor in just how much of 40k and AoS is also being produced in plastic, no.
The last 40k release I can think of that wasn't plastic was Canoness Viridya.
AoS? I don't think it's had any new stuff added that wasn't plastic.
Add in Bloodbowl teams, Ad Mech and Genestealer Cults, Sector Mechanicus (All new, All plastic), and there's a not insignificant amount of extra demand on ultimately finite resources over and above Necromunda.
Now I still don't know the veracity of the 'it's the electrics' statement we saw a few weeks back - I'm not aware if we ever found corroboration on that. But it's still worth factoring in.
Regardless - be telling GW, not us. They seem to be in the listening mood still, so give them your feedback.
Albertorius wrote: Honestly speaking, the pace they're going with the releases, particularly the plastics releases, don't make much sense when you check GW's demonstrated capabilities.
For example, the gang sprues: those are the same "small" sprues that have most units... but most units have two or three of those each. The plastics sprue is larger, but seems to be of a similar size of the sprues of a lot of vehicles.
IOW, they probably could have released sprues for all six houses and the same scenery sprues and it would have amounted to the same sprues that would have had a release with 2-3 new infantry boxes and a vehicle. That doesn't seem too much for GW, does it? But they have decided not to do so.
Check the post in Rumours regarding GWs production issues.
Necromunda is not the main priority product of GW. You'd be thankful if they did release them quarterly and not fall into long period of time with no release like Blood Bowl.
Depending on who you ask, and possibly when you ask them, the Elf team was intended to be Resin - but the success of the re-launch meant they got 'promoted' to plastic.
And in the meantime, they have at least been keeping Star Players etc coming via Forgeworld.
Again, I'm not aware of anything definitive here - just throwing out some food for thought. Whether you have a cheeky cucumber sandwich from it or a full roast with all the trimmings is entirely up to the individual
Yes the reason the Elf was delayed for so long because they need to start making mold in CAD, making the mold, making the sprue, packaging, printing and stuff, which could take a long time because it's not on their schedule.
That why I said people should pray GW have quarterly schedule release for Necromunda every year, because it meant they're still on the schedule.
Chopstick wrote:Okay so this probably give me headache for a week, only 1 out of 5 body for Escher give the Autogun and shotgun a take-aim pose.
Time for some slicing and dicing....
It's worse than that, some of the torsos can't even fit the shotgun properly as the boobs get in the way. I eventually ended up shaving away the left hand to give this pose:
Edit: appears I can't post any images yet. You can see it on yaktribe
Vorian wrote:Which would be all well and good if it was main GW.
Specialist games is a risk they are taking (in their eyes), it has a small budget and they are releasing as fast as they can.
If they prove they are not a risk they will be expanded. Or rather, they will be further expanded.
My biggest concern is that this could easily end up as a circular argument:
Why did Necromunda not sell? Because they didn't release enough stuff. Why didn't they release enough stuff? Because Necromunda didn't sell.
I'm seeing lots of people saying that they're going to wait for more stuff to be released before buying in, especially a rules compendium (core rules spread over a half dozen or more books hasn't gone down well).
It's worse than that, some of the torsos can't even fit the shotgun properly as the boobs get in the way. I eventually ended up shaving away the left hand to give this pose:
Edit: appears I can't post any images yet. You can see it on yaktribe
Interesting, I was thinking of that option, or shave away the boobs. or cut the torso, or lean the model back. Might try to shave the arm when I'm back home
Consider the Lily....sorry. Not the Lily. It's original outings.
Pretty much all there was for us to buy was the boxed set, Outlanders, gang sets, gang boosters and the relative smattering of Hired Guns of various stripes.
Unless a player regularly switched Clan House, that's putting a natural limit on how much anyone player is going to need or want to buy. That in itself was part of the attraction - even someone on the most modest budget could properly dive in. But, it of course meant those of greater means didn't have much incentive to spend a great deal more than the modest budget gamer.
This time?
Well, much the same as above. But also 3D Zone Mortalis, additional floor packs (Y NO SAME 4 QUEST????), the Sector Mechanicus terrain, and possibly various other 'throwbacks' to go along with Clint Beastwood.
I'd say it's got a stronger business model there - simply put, they're in a position to produce far more, and keep us spending. The plural of anecdote isn't Data, but just this weekend I spent the thick end of £300 on Necromunda. That's the boxed game, Gang War 1, 2 sets of terrain, 1 set each of the Plasma bits, and a Clint Beastwood. And I'm looking at investing in ever more terrain as the months roll on. Ideally, I'd like my players to come up with their 'home turf' terrain set up, so we can do proper raids on encampments, including 'home field advantage' etc.
Now granted, 20 years and a career have passed since I got the original on release day....but I'm pretty sure in that one weekend I spent more on Necromunda than all other Necromunda spendings put together? Surely I can't be the only one spending that?
Hollow wrote: When I play pick up games... 40k, (Soon to be Necromunda) or whatever. If the person I am playing against said"I don't believe you! prove it! I need to see the book!" then I would say " You win, pack up my stuff and play someone else" no time for idiots like that.
That would be much more reasonable if somehow often when person is without relevant rulebooks it often enough turns out he's playing them wrong. Can't blame other for wanting to make sure he's not being cheated on.
Don't want to pay for the rules? Don't play the game.
Yes. But some are complaining about being forced to carry all those books and then consider opponent TFG when they ask you to show the rules you use they don't know before hand.
I don't think the physical act of carrying is the core issue. It's the gouging and splitting what was one product before into a year's worth of part-products.
It can be a pain if you're the 'usual book buyer' and everyone expects you to wheel your copies along, rather than buy their own.
Not only are they not cheap, but who wants someone else pawing their rulebook to pieces because they won't buy their own?
And as I said earlier - I'm not adverse to periodic rules releases, just provided the content is actually there in each one (I don't want to be paying £17.50 for one 'must have' bit, and four or five bits of absolute waff).
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JohnnyHell wrote: I don't think the physical act of carrying is the core issue. It's the gouging and splitting what was one product before into a year's worth of part-products.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: It can be a pain if you're the 'usual book buyer' and everyone expects you to wheel your copies along, rather than buy their own.
Not only are they not cheap, but who wants someone else pawing their rulebook to pieces because they won't buy their own?
And as I said earlier - I'm not adverse to periodic rules releases, just provided the content is actually there in each one (I don't want to be paying £17.50 for one 'must have' bit, and four or five bits of absolute waff).
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JohnnyHell wrote: I don't think the physical act of carrying is the core issue. It's the gouging and splitting what was one product before into a year's worth of part-products.
Necromunda.
Outlanders
Gang War! by Fanatic.
White Dwarf articles.
It was never a single product dude.
Don't misrepresent my point, we both played it. ;-)
The old Rulebook had all House gangs, Hired Guns, Trading Post, Campaign Rules, etc. The original original had Rulebook and Sourcebook that split it in two in the box, but you got all the rules in one go. Later editions have it in one publication. Paying multiple books' price for the same amount of content is what bites. We on the same page (of book 7) now? :-P
Ruin_In_The_Dark wrote: Yeah this is just the price to pay for having specialist games back. The whole reason it went away was due to a lack of profitability.
Or not. Or do you seriously thing they greenlighted project if despite selling 400% more than they themselves expected it would sell it would STILL be unprofitable?
It seems we're getting at least one House Gang per volume. And Vol 2 seems to be promising other useful, game expanding stuff, including the new board tiles for the Zone Mortalis version (never a bad idea).
If that content is kept up - I won't really have a problem with it, as take the Gangs out, and I'd still probably be buying the books.
I agree its not the best way of doing things for us, but I can understand and agree with why they do it as a company. Say everything was in one book, that's one book and one box per player to play the game, which in some cases was a decade plus of gaming, which is great for us but doesn't warrant long term support due to the lack of profits which is why specialist games was binned. We can have a one and done like SWA for a relatively reasonable price that will never be supported or we can have what we have with necro with years of planned support and having to deal with the costs of that support. Basically things have changed since 1995. I do think the content for the books looks a little thin so far but then we don't know how much they will cost yet.
Don't want to pay for the rules? Don't play the game.
Yes. But some are complaining about being forced to carry all those books and then consider opponent TFG when they ask you to show the rules you use they don't know before hand.
I don't really think it's about being TFG. It's about getting the rules right.
I play people very often who get things wrong about their rules - usually but not always to their advantage. I don't think this is cheating, but I'd sometimes call it wishful thinking. It happens at all levels of the game. I've got things wrong myself too. It's usually a very quick conversation that goes "really? I thought that gun had a range of X, not Y" - so you look it up and you know.
So I think you need the books with you just to be able to check stuff. Having multiple books, with the rules for stuff spread around between them at random, is annoying.
Just to add to this, I fly between two places every few month, so carrying mutiple books is a bit of a pain. Blood Bowl is fine because you can get by with the app and the reference sheets. I did buy the books, but when you fly away for the semester you have to take only what you need.
Does this put me off of Necromunda? A bit. I've not bought the main box mainly because I want to see if others start playing it. I did get some Escher for kitbashing though. For flyers, the cost/benefit isn't only money but also weight.
Albertorius wrote: Honestly speaking, the pace they're going with the releases, particularly the plastics releases, don't make much sense when you check GW's demonstrated capabilities.
For example, the gang sprues: those are the same "small" sprues that have most units... but most units have two or three of those each. The plastics sprue is larger, but seems to be of a similar size of the sprues of a lot of vehicles.
IOW, they probably could have released sprues for all six houses and the same scenery sprues and it would have amounted to the same sprues that would have had a release with 2-3 new infantry boxes and a vehicle. That doesn't seem too much for GW, does it? But they have decided not to do so.
Check the post in Rumours regarding GWs production issues.
Is that substantiated in any way, or is it just an "I've heard that..." rumor?
mugginz wrote: Just to add to this, I fly between two places every few month, so carrying mutiple books is a bit of a pain. Blood Bowl is fine because you can get by with the app and the reference sheets. I did buy the books, but when you fly away for the semester you have to take only what you need.
Does this put me off of Necromunda? A bit. I've not bought the main box mainly because I want to see if others start playing it. I did get some Escher for kitbashing though. For flyers, the cost/benefit isn't only money but also weight.
Are they regular destinations you visit?
If you've got established gaming circles in said destination, might be worth relying on others? Or, if you've bought, scan in the pages you need and pop them on your tablet?
JohnnyHell wrote: I don't think the physical act of carrying is the core issue. It's the gouging and splitting what was one product before into a year's worth of part-products.
I know, right? Imagine if they'd taken 30K and spaced out its content and rules into a series of 300 page, hyper-expensive tomes released yearly over a period of 15 years.
Albertorius wrote: Honestly speaking, the pace they're going with the releases, particularly the plastics releases, don't make much sense when you check GW's demonstrated capabilities.
For example, the gang sprues: those are the same "small" sprues that have most units... but most units have two or three of those each. The plastics sprue is larger, but seems to be of a similar size of the sprues of a lot of vehicles.
IOW, they probably could have released sprues for all six houses and the same scenery sprues and it would have amounted to the same sprues that would have had a release with 2-3 new infantry boxes and a vehicle. That doesn't seem too much for GW, does it? But they have decided not to do so.
Check the post in Rumours regarding GWs production issues.
Is that substantiated in any way, or is it just an "I've heard that..." rumor?
I have no idea if its true, but there is another thread with all the details. And would explain why they have staggered the release like this.
JohnnyHell wrote: I don't think the physical act of carrying is the core issue. It's the gouging and splitting what was one product before into a year's worth of part-products.
I know, right? Imagine if they'd taken 30K and spaced out its content and rules into a series of 300 page, hyper-expensive tomes released yearly over a period of 15 years.
The difference is that they are actually new rules. You can play 30k with just one or two red books, both of which were released simultaneously. When they released betrayal you could already play, regardless of whether your legion was in the book (I started my Imperial Fists at that point).
The issue now is that they have already written the rules but just aren't giving them to us. It feels like they are releasing an incomplete product.
JohnnyHell wrote: I don't think the physical act of carrying is the core issue. It's the gouging and splitting what was one product before into a year's worth of part-products.
I know, right? Imagine if they'd taken 30K and spaced out its content and rules into a series of 300 page, hyper-expensive tomes released yearly over a period of 15 years.
The difference is that they are actually new rules. You can play 30k with just one or two red books, both of which were released simultaneously. When they released betrayal you could already play, regardless of whether your legion was in the book (I started my Imperial Fists at that point).
The issue now is that they have already written the rules but just aren't giving them to us. It feels like they are releasing an incomplete product.
How do you know what is and isn't final and what is and is not in flux according to how the game evolves over time? I could, hypothetically, see 'them' amending and changing things as the game plays out and reports back to ensure that early strong factors or weak factors get countered by later gangs and that the continuing releases act as a living rulebook to provide a better gaming experience.
I'm a fan of this idea and that it's profit contribution gives Specialist Games a continued seat at the table for new releases and production scheduling against it's far bigger brothers in AoS and 40k.
Don't get me wrong, I'm liking what there is so far of the game (full disclosure: I've bought two core boxes, the cards and a crapton of scenery for it, plus Gang War), but on the one hand there's the fact that Gang War feels very much like day-1 DLC, and on the other, well... right now, it kinda seems like a good idea to just use the new core rules and maybe the new campaign rules with the Oldcromunda stuff (gangs, trading post, hired guns.... well, everything else). I'm not worried at all about balance, after all, so...
In other news, I'm starting to assemble the scenery I have:
I still have at home enough stuff to build another 1 or two GW buildings, I've only assembled about half my Mantic stuff, out of the table is all the Newcromunda stuff from the txo boxes and a box of the new pipes (I'm thinking about getting a second box) and there's two Promethium refineries flying to me from Wayland
Albertorius wrote: Don't get me wrong, I'm liking what there is so far of the game (full disclosure: I've bought two core boxes, the cards and a crapton of scenery for it, plus Gang War), but on the one hand there's the fact that Gang War feels very much like day-1 DLC, and on the other, well... right now, it kinda seems like a good idea to just use the new core rules and maybe the new campaign rules with the Oldcromunda stuff (gangs, trading post, hired guns.... well, everything else). I'm not worried at all about balance, after all, so...
No doubt in my mind this explains what gw is thinking - they have time to split up the releases for necromunda to keep new players interested and attract fresh blood, while older players are fully capable of just printing up the old rules and playing with that.
JohnnyHell wrote: I don't think the physical act of carrying is the core issue. It's the gouging and splitting what was one product before into a year's worth of part-products.
I know, right? Imagine if they'd taken 30K and spaced out its content and rules into a series of 300 page, hyper-expensive tomes released yearly over a period of 15 years.
The difference is that they are actually new rules. You can play 30k with just one or two red books, both of which were released simultaneously. When they released betrayal you could already play, regardless of whether your legion was in the book (I started my Imperial Fists at that point).
The issue now is that they have already written the rules but just aren't giving them to us. It feels like they are releasing an incomplete product.
How do you know what is and isn't final and what is and is not in flux according to how the game evolves over time? I could, hypothetically, see 'them' amending and changing things as the game plays out and reports back to ensure that early strong factors or weak factors get countered by later gangs and that the continuing releases act as a living rulebook to provide a better gaming experience.
I'm a fan of this idea and that it's profit contribution gives Specialist Games a continued seat at the table for new releases and production scheduling against it's far bigger brothers in AoS and 40k.
Mandragola is entirely correct. This is an intentionally incomplete product, entirely analogous to the worst excesses of DLC in the videogame industry. It is bad enough that the core rules do not contain comprehensive rules for all 6 house gangs, but I shelled out for Gang War as well. I am apoplectic with anger, and no I do not spend my time looking for any excuse to flame on GW. I was really excited for this release and wanted to get behind it 100%, even planning a campaign to introduce new players to the game.
Despite my anger I will calmly answer your question and state my case here for why it is an unethically incomplete release (yes, business ethics are a thing, irrespective of a business' primary goal of increasing profits).
Firstly, the armoury/trading post available to the two starting gangs is illogically incomplete. Even if they insisted on witholding rules for what are currently "legacy gangs" (gang tactics, new and unique wargear), the way they have done this means you have ommissions like no boltguns, even when a supposedly rarer combi-needler is in the game from the get go. Some omissions feel like they may be a mistake (after the Trading Post section, armor types are detailed and it is said that "only one armor type may be worn at a time", implying that gangers may swap armor, but no costs or rarity for this armor is mentioned in the trading post section. If they patch this up by including it in Gang War 2, then I am being gouged the price of a second book to have the printed rules for something the first book seems to say I should already be able to do.
Secondly, Gang War 2 is already teased, so I assume already at least near completion. I would buy the balance argument you present for something scheduled to come later, but this was clearly planned. Why am I forced to buy an extra book to use hired guns, when these rules are so evidently already in existence?
It may have been acceptable to give each gang it's own book, just like Codexes in 40k, as well as releasing content that notably diverged from core rules (such as outlaw gangs, bounties, ash waste/vehicles, etc), but the way they have written and released in means you simply do not get a complete working game, with a working trading post, hired guns and the like, even if you shelled out for both the starter box is simply indefensible.
To make matters even worse, as others have noted, Gang War 2 seems to only include rules for Orlock's. This means that if they continue releasing Gang War books with 1 House Gang, but rules such as Hired Guns that will force anyone wanting to manage a proper campaign to buy them even if they don't wish to use that particular gang, we will have to buy 5 books minimum to have just the true core game and House Gangs. This still leaves them extra hired guns and dramatis personae, scavvies, redemptionists, spyrers, guilders, enforcers, ash wastes (just off the top of my head) before they even have to *shock horror* actually come up with something original. Never mind the obvious pocket-gouge, this will delay people running campaigns where all gangs are properly included (don't even bring up that mess of a PDF they put on the site), and be an absolute nightmare to consult rules from that many books. I shelled out for Gang War wanting to have something complete and printed, but it looks as though I will end up having to write up my own compendium of it all anyway!
So go on, corporate apologists, just try and explain to me how any of this is even remotely OK? As for the rest of us - who can recognize that while this may be a game of plastic toy soldiers, it is nonetheless important to protect consumer rights and power - what are we going to do about it?
JohnnyHell wrote: I don't think the physical act of carrying is the core issue. It's the gouging and splitting what was one product before into a year's worth of part-products.
I know, right? Imagine if they'd taken 30K and spaced out its content and rules into a series of 300 page, hyper-expensive tomes released yearly over a period of 15 years.
The difference is that they are actually new rules. You can play 30k with just one or two red books, both of which were released simultaneously. When they released betrayal you could already play, regardless of whether your legion was in the book (I started my Imperial Fists at that point).
The issue now is that they have already written the rules but just aren't giving them to us. It feels like they are releasing an incomplete product.
How do you know what is and isn't final and what is and is not in flux according to how the game evolves over time? I could, hypothetically, see 'them' amending and changing things as the game plays out and reports back to ensure that early strong factors or weak factors get countered by later gangs and that the continuing releases act as a living rulebook to provide a better gaming experience.
I'm a fan of this idea and that it's profit contribution gives Specialist Games a continued seat at the table for new releases and production scheduling against it's far bigger brothers in AoS and 40k.
Mandragola is entirely correct. This is an intentionally incomplete product, entirely analogous to the worst excesses of DLC in the videogame industry. It is bad enough that the core rules do not contain comprehensive rules for all 6 house gangs, but I shelled out for Gang War as well. I am apoplectic with anger, and no I do not spend my time looking for any excuse to flame on GW. I was really excited for this release and wanted to get behind it 100%, even planning a campaign to introduce new players to the game.
Despite my anger I will calmly answer your question and state my case here for why it is an unethically incomplete release (yes, business ethics are a thing, irrespective of a business' primary goal of increasing profits).
Firstly, the armoury/trading post available to the two starting gangs is illogically incomplete. Even if they insisted on witholding rules for what are currently "legacy gangs" (gang tactics, new and unique wargear), the way they have done this means you have ommissions like no boltguns, even when a supposedly rarer combi-needler is in the game from the get go. Some omissions feel like they may be a mistake (after the Trading Post section, armor types are detailed and it is said that "only one armor type may be worn at a time", implying that gangers may swap armor, but no costs or rarity for this armor is mentioned in the trading post section. If they patch this up by including it in Gang War 2, then I am being gouged the price of a second book to have the printed rules for something the first book seems to say I should already be able to do.
Secondly, Gang War 2 is already teased, so I assume already at least near completion. I would buy the balance argument you present for something scheduled to come later, but this was clearly planned. Why am I forced to buy an extra book to use hired guns, when these rules are so evidently already in existence?
It may have been acceptable to give each gang it's own book, just like Codexes in 40k, as well as releasing content that notably diverged from core rules (such as outlaw gangs, bounties, ash waste/vehicles, etc), but the way they have written and released in means you simply do not get a complete working game, with a working trading post, hired guns and the like, even if you shelled out for both the starter box is simply indefensible.
To make matters even worse, as others have noted, Gang War 2 seems to only include rules for Orlock's. This means that if they continue releasing Gang War books with 1 House Gang, but rules such as Hired Guns that will force anyone wanting to manage a proper campaign to buy them even if they don't wish to use that particular gang, we will have to buy 5 books minimum to have just the true core game and House Gangs. This still leaves them extra hired guns and dramatis personae, scavvies, redemptionists, spyrers, guilders, enforcers, ash wastes (just off the top of my head) before they even have to *shock horror* actually come up with something original. Never mind the obvious pocket-gouge, this will delay people running campaigns where all gangs are properly included (don't even bring up that mess of a PDF they put on the site), and be an absolute nightmare to consult rules from that many books. I shelled out for Gang War wanting to have something complete and printed, but it looks as though I will end up having to write up my own compendium of it all anyway!
So go on, corporate apologists, just try and explain to me how any of this is even remotely OK? As for the rest of us - who can recognize that while this may be a game of plastic toy soldiers, it is nonetheless important to protect consumer rights and power - what are we going to do about it?
Lol you should go to open day and have a chat with the guys making this, it’s really not a corporate mentality.
There we go. That's both of them covered right there. Unless you're talking about regulated financial type services - in which case I'm still your man. But as GW's plastic crack ain't regulated....Buy or Buy Not. There is no whine.
Once again, old specialist games didn't make enough money, so it died. Selling one box and a gang isn't profitable. If it isn't profitable it isn't supportable.
Does it suck having stuff split up? Yeah. Does it justify being "apoplectic with anger" not really, unless you did absolutely no research before you bought the game as it was pretty common knowledge what the release schedule was.
Seriously, if you get this angry over a game why even bother? Make the most of what you have and use your head to get around what you don't like. Its a game. If you enjoy it play it, if not use the new resources (terrain and models) and the old rules. Or don't and research your purchases in future.
The release schedule will let me actually paint the stuff - build terrain - afford to buy it all.
At the open day I was told that they had put it all up on a white board that week and had a round 5 years worth of work ahead to do everything they want for necromunda.
1 they don’t have the financial security or manpower to magically release the all that, the whole game if you will. 2 If they plop out the rules first before the minis then over the next couple of years every third party and there dog will produce models in gw’s stead, that’s a lot of lost revenue.
Didn’t everyone want them to support there games? Not just one and done? Well that’s now spread there resources between AoS40k necromunda bloodbowl horushersy shadespire. And there more ip’s to come.
Don't want to pay for the rules? Don't play the game.
See, that's exactly the problem we were discussing - not people refusing to pay for rules, but people compiling rules from a ridiculously spread out number of sources for the sake of convenience and then being subjected to self-righteous "prove you own them, poor!" nonsense.
A lot of folk wouldn't be gamers today if they hadn't spent their youth borrowing and photocopying stuff off their mates or club acquaintances, so hop off that high horse eh.
JohnnyHell wrote: I don't think the physical act of carrying is the core issue. It's the gouging and splitting what was one product before into a year's worth of part-products.
I know, right? Imagine if they'd taken 30K and spaced out its content and rules into a series of 300 page, hyper-expensive tomes released yearly over a period of 15 years.
Except that's garbage, and you know fine well it's garbage. You can buy Horus Heresy Book One - Betrayal and play Horus Heresy games. No muss, no fuss, no extras, one single book. Is it the *best* version of Heresy gaming? No. But it is feature complete and functional out of the box and includes everything you expect would be there in a product in that setting. The follow up books add to that experience, they expand it, they deepen it, but not a single one of them is necessary to make the game function at the expected level, not one of them feels like they are holding content hostage to make you buy stuff you otherwise wouldn't have.
If the Newcromunda release had consisted of the complete, core Necromunda experience instead of a cut-down mess - even split into the boxed game and separate Gang War book just as they did - with basic rules for the six houses, a complete Trading Post and postgame sequence and so on, most of this discussion wouldn't even be happening. If they were following the Heresy model, that's the release we would have gotten, and then the follow up Gang War books would have been optional but appealing content that enriched the game and that people wanted to buy - expanded rules for the House gangs with their more unique equipment, new scenarios and terrain rules, new campaign settings, all the fancy new addons to the postgame that they're telling us will be in Gang War, and eventually the non-House gang rules. They'd probably have had to drop to three books a year if you stripped out the stuff that should have been in the initial release, but anyone who thinks the margins on this are so low that losing out on the sales of one printed supplement a year would kill it is having a laugh - as per usual they make their money on the models and the "collector" nonsense.
JohnnyHell wrote: I don't think the physical act of carrying is the core issue. It's the gouging and splitting what was one product before into a year's worth of part-products.
I know, right? Imagine if they'd taken 30K and spaced out its content and rules into a series of 300 page, hyper-expensive tomes released yearly over a period of 15 years.
The difference is that they are actually new rules. You can play 30k with just one or two red books, both of which were released simultaneously. When they released betrayal you could already play, regardless of whether your legion was in the book (I started my Imperial Fists at that point).
The issue now is that they have already written the rules but just aren't giving them to us. It feels like they are releasing an incomplete product.
How do you know what is and isn't final and what is and is not in flux according to how the game evolves over time? I could, hypothetically, see 'them' amending and changing things as the game plays out and reports back to ensure that early strong factors or weak factors get countered by later gangs and that the continuing releases act as a living rulebook to provide a better gaming experience.
I'm a fan of this idea and that it's profit contribution gives Specialist Games a continued seat at the table for new releases and production scheduling against it's far bigger brothers in AoS and 40k.
I know that the rules for gangs are not final and that's the problem to me. I think it's more stupid than unethical to release a campaign system in this way, where only 1/3 of players can actually join the campaign while the rest wait for their models to come out.
It's a choice to drip feed the models out. They could have done the full release of the game in a month, just as they did for Primaris marines or Death Guard. It wouldn't have been more sprues than one of those releases. And I know it's only a specialist game and not that huge a market, but those armies are both just 1 army out of the ~20 that exist for 40k. I think it's pretty comparable.
Then everyone who wanted to play a campaign could do so straight away. You could actually start it then and there with everyone on a level playing field.
As for updates and errata, I'm all for that. I'd have been fine with them bringing out a meaningful expansion in 6 months or a year, like the general's handbook and chapter approved. By all means rebalance points values or weapon profiles, skills or whatever else. But gang war 2 isn't that. It's not going to be changing existing stuff, just filling in some of the blanks in that stuff.
Why don't people have more than one army and play more than one campaign? By the time the Orlocks come out, you'll have plenty of opportunity to have played a campaign with a Goliath or Escher team (maybe both) - and since you have to buy the core box for the ruleset and dice already, you basically can't not have them.
Don't want to pay for the rules? Don't play the game.
See, that's exactly the problem we were discussing - not people refusing to pay for rules, but people compiling rules from a ridiculously spread out number of sources for the sake of convenience and then being subjected to self-righteous "prove you own them, poor!" nonsense.
A lot of folk wouldn't be gamers today if they hadn't spent their youth borrowing and photocopying stuff off their mates or club acquaintances, so hop off that high horse eh.
JohnnyHell wrote: I don't think the physical act of carrying is the core issue. It's the gouging and splitting what was one product before into a year's worth of part-products.
I know, right? Imagine if they'd taken 30K and spaced out its content and rules into a series of 300 page, hyper-expensive tomes released yearly over a period of 15 years.
Except that's garbage, and you know fine well it's garbage. You can buy Horus Heresy Book One - Betrayal and play Horus Heresy games. No muss, no fuss, no extras, one single book. Is it the *best* version of Heresy gaming? No. But it is feature complete and functional out of the box and includes everything you expect would be there in a product in that setting. The follow up books add to that experience, they expand it, they deepen it, but not a single one of them is necessary to make the game function at the expected level, not one of them feels like they are holding content hostage to make you buy stuff you otherwise wouldn't have.
If the Newcromunda release had consisted of the complete, core Necromunda experience instead of a cut-down mess - even split into the boxed game and separate Gang War book just as they did - with basic rules for the six houses, a complete Trading Post and postgame sequence and so on, most of this discussion wouldn't even be happening. If they were following the Heresy model, that's the release we would have gotten, and then the follow up Gang War books would have been optional but appealing content that enriched the game and that people wanted to buy - expanded rules for the House gangs with their more unique equipment, new scenarios and terrain rules, new campaign settings, all the fancy new addons to the postgame that they're telling us will be in Gang War, and eventually the non-House gang rules. They'd probably have had to drop to three books a year if you stripped out the stuff that should have been in the initial release, but anyone who thinks the margins on this are so low that losing out on the sales of one printed supplement a year would kill it is having a laugh - as per usual they make their money on the models and the "collector" nonsense.
Sorry Yodhrin, I really like you as a poster on Dakka, but are you saying you cant play the new necromunda straight out of the box?
I could do that, or I could just buy nothing now until the gang I want and all the rules come out and join in then.
My point is that this is bad policy, not that it's immoral - though I don't think it's especially moral either. I think it's stupid to sell a campaign game without all the rules that all the players need to actually join in the campaign. It's dead on arrival.
At least with bloodbowl we actually got the full rules from the start - albeit with the purchase of a cheap second book. We could build teams from old models, convert them from warhammer stuff (my dark elves are made from Corsairs) or whatever. And because we were doing that, GW even sold some miniatures. But none of that is true of necromunda.
Yodhrin wrote: Except that's garbage, and you know fine well it's garbage. You can buy Horus Heresy Book One - Betrayal and play Horus Heresy games. No muss, no fuss, no extras, one single book. Is it the *best* version of Heresy gaming? No. But it is feature complete and functional out of the box and includes everything you expect would be there in a product in that setting. The follow up books add to that experience, they expand it, they deepen it, but not a single one of them is necessary to make the game function at the expected level, not one of them feels like they are holding content hostage to make you buy stuff you otherwise wouldn't have.
Yeah, you got me, you scamp.
It's totally different, and no one has ever seen 30K players demanding more support. It's been nothing but pure contentment after Betrayal. WS players are happier than a clam knowing it's only until 2019 before they can properly play their Legion like everyone else. Seven years is nothing in geologic time. Late 2018 is practically here already for BA and DA players. And shoot, I don't think IF and AL players even want models for their primarchs. Why would they?
Meanwhile, NM can't actually be played out the box. One is just left to sigh and stare forlornly at the contents scattered across the tabletop. And when FW refused to make get-you-by rules for the old gangs publicly available, that was the ultimate feth you. Cripes, they're one step away from breaking into our homes and poisoning our pets.
Got my copy today. With the Escher sprues in hand, and seeing how fine and delicate the pieces are, the scale debate seems in retrospect, even sillier than it actually was. Wonderful kit. Can’t wait to get these built. I’ve always been of the mindset “withold judgement ‘til the product’s in hand” but in recent experience, this may be the best example of why.
Genestealer Cults and Chaos Cults gang rules, and wargear will be coming to Necromunda early next year, after Orlock and gang war 2.
these will be coming through a pair of White Dwarf articles sometime in the spring (march-may). these will also include various additional wargear which other gangs will be able to take.
regarding the GCults; this version will focus on the mining cults of the ashwastes coming into contact with a genestealer, so will use the Neophyte Hybrids kit as its base. expect to see a larger more detailed cults gang at a later date when they explore hive secondus. but this will help provide an additional two gangs by the beginning of the summer.
don’t have much details on the chaos cults rules, but there are chaos tokens, and a tile with an eight point star in blood in the new expansion set of tiles coming with GW2. so would expect some cult ritual mission of some sort.
Garro on 11-26-2017
got some more in depth about the Genestealer and chaos cult gang lists coming next year.
-they’ll both be appearing in White Dwarf.
-both gangs will be based around the existing kits (No new models)
-Genestealer cults (GC) will focus around the neophite-hybrids with a sub-primus leader, and able to take Aberrants in the gangs. they’ll have full access to the entire GC armoury including weapons in the acolytes kits. these weapons should be added to the trading posts lists in the article, but will be in Gang War 3 (GW3) for certain.
-Chaos cults will be god neutral. but will be able to preform a ritual between games, to one of the gods. if successful, your gang gets a buff based on the god, and if it fails, a random member of your gang (other than the leader) turns into a spawn, and remains like it (spawn is added to the gang roster). you get bonuses to the ritual roll, if you stick to the same god, and get negative modifers if you chop and change.
-both gangs will have full gang rules, and access to trading posts .etc so will be able to include other non-faction gear as campaigns go on.
-both factions will have a low-power psyker option.
Summer will be a good time to make a campaign With 4 full gangs, 3 "renegades" gangs and big market.
Dread Master wrote: Got my copy today. With the Escher sprues in hand, and seeing how fine and delicate the pieces are, the scale debate seems in retrospect, even sillier than it actually was. Wonderful kit. Can’t wait to get these built. I’ve always been of the mindset “withold judgement ‘til the product’s in hand” but in recent experience, this may be the best example of why.
You can do both. There's nothing wrong with having an initial reaction as long as you are willing to keep an open mind and revise it if the facts change.
I actually bought a box of Escher on good faith and it turns out they are nice miniatures at least for conversion (I don't like their style straight out of the box), but I've lost what little faith I had in GW's presentation along the way. I'm not normally a fan of GW's promotional pictures, but I think the ones for the Escher are especially bad.
Doesn't seem like the new Necromunda is going to take off in my groups due to the rules situation. Shame, really. Maybe we'll have another look once the rules are complete.
To take a short break from the eternal discussion on the release schedule and actually talk about the game for once...
Who else is checking out the rules? Has anyone played a campaign yet? I’m reading through the books now and I’m seriously impressed. It looks to me as though they took the best bits of old Necro, removed or improved the worst, and added a whole bunch of great stuff that immediately stands out to us Necro veterans as “of course! Why didn’t I think of that...”. The new campaign system seems super fun and I love how they’ve incorporated “seasons” into the main rules, with a proper end to a campaign (with huge potential for additions in future supplements), in-between campaign stuff and rules for bringing your gang (or an off-shoot) into the next campaign. After reading this I’m VERY excited for future Gang War books as these systems seem busy it to be endlessly customisable with fun, narrative-creating additions! Huge kudos to Andy Hoare and his team!
Sorry Yodhrin, I really like you as a poster on Dakka, but are you saying you cant play the new necromunda straight out of the box?
Yes, that's what I'm saying. You can play Underhive straight out of the box, a fun but limited game that depicts a series of fights between two specific gangs, but not Necromunda. Necromunda means the six houses engaging in campaign gameplay with a feature-complete postgame sequence and access to all the commonplace equipment we had last time around.
Yodhrin wrote: Except that's garbage, and you know fine well it's garbage. You can buy Horus Heresy Book One - Betrayal and play Horus Heresy games. No muss, no fuss, no extras, one single book. Is it the *best* version of Heresy gaming? No. But it is feature complete and functional out of the box and includes everything you expect would be there in a product in that setting. The follow up books add to that experience, they expand it, they deepen it, but not a single one of them is necessary to make the game function at the expected level, not one of them feels like they are holding content hostage to make you buy stuff you otherwise wouldn't have.
Yeah, you got me, you scamp.
It's totally different, and no one has ever seen 30K players demanding more support. It's been nothing but pure contentment after Betrayal. WS players are happier than a clam knowing it's only until 2019 before they can properly play their Legion like everyone else. Seven years is nothing in geologic time. Late 2018 is practically here already for BA and DA players. And shoot, I don't think IF and AL players even want models for their primarchs. Why would they?
Meanwhile, NM can't actually be played out the box. One is just left to sigh and stare forlornly at the contents scattered across the tabletop. And when FW refused to make get-you-by rules for the old gangs publicly available, that was the ultimate feth you. Cripes, they're one step away from breaking into our homes and poisoning our pets.
WHY WON'T SOMEONE DO SOMETHING!
Good try bub, but hyperbolic sarcasm doesn't disguise the fact you're not actually addressing anything. You use those to add flavour to an argument where you're in the right, not in a desperate attempt to shift goalposts around to disguise the vacuousness of your position.
100% contentment of the playerbase was not a feature of my argument. Players having no desire for additional content was not part of my argument. The argument was that Betrayal provided a functional way to play games in the Horus Heresy. You can pick up nothing except Betrayal and play an entire Heresy campaign(indeed, many of us did) with the rules provided.
Buying Underhive and Gang War does not provide a complete, basic Necromunda experience. There are only two gangs. Big chunks of the equipment lists are missing. If FW had released Betrayal with half an army list that was missing line infantry units and inexplicably didn't contain Flamers and Plasma Guns, your objection to my comparison might begin to approach having some vague semblance of validity, but they didn't - you can play Horus Heresy games without making a single purchase beyond Betrayal, you can't even buy your guys fething chainswords in Newcromunda without purchasing at least one additional book at some unspecified future point.
Now, care to address the actual argument(ideally, with the basic level of civility of an adult human)?
Mymearan wrote: To take a short break from the eternal discussion on the release schedule and actually talk about the game for once...
Who else is checking out the rules? Has anyone played a campaign yet? I’m reading through the books now and I’m seriously impressed. It looks to me as though they took the best bits of old Necro, removed or improved the worst, and added a whole bunch of great stuff that immediately stands out to us Necro veterans as “of course! Why didn’t I think of that...”. The new campaign system seems super fun and I love how they’ve incorporated “seasons” into the main rules, with a proper end to a campaign (with huge potential for additions in future supplements), in-between campaign stuff and rules for bringing your gang (or an off-shoot) into the next campaign. After reading this I’m VERY excited for future Gang War books as these systems seem busy it to be endlessly customisable with fun, narrative-creating additions! Huge kudos to Andy Hoare and his team!
Well my copy is still stuck in some Wayland/DHL nightmare, but all the changes seem pretty much perfect to the core rules.
The weapons seem like the oddest part, on that some are just terrible and some are obviously the best weapons. Hopefully that's something that gets ironed out
When it comes down to it, how different is this to Codex or Army books really?
For me, it again all comes down to the content of each volume. It’s one thing to add cost to a game, quite another to add value.
Gang War 1 works for me. It’s added a poop load of rules to a boxed game intended to be a complete experience in itself.
Gang War 2 promises a new Gang, plus further rules. If you’ll excuse the pun, on paper that sounds reasonable enough.
White Dwarf will carry rules for Chaos and Genestealer Cults. I’m ok with that.
Gang War 3? Well, it seems after Orlocks it’s Van Saar, so there’s some interest from me there. But, I want more. I can’t define what ‘acceptable’ content would be for me. GW are creative types, I’m not. But if the Van Saar rules are the only reason for me to buy it, that’s gonna be an issue. I don’t want to be paying near Codex prices for limited content.
From there? Much the same.
But now is the time to be feeding back to GW. We can’t tell them what we don’t want, because we’ve limited info on what’s planned. We can of course tell them what we do want to see. As YMMV, I’m not gonna say what you should want etc. I will again encourage peeps to engage with GW though.
Chances are at the very least each Gang War book will contain the rules for a gang, more missions (to promote the next set of tiles) and whatever type of hired gun they're putting out next, be it bounty hunters, Ratskin scouts or the mentioned non-combat hangers on like cooks and what have you.
I'd also love to see them toss in fluff while we're at it.
The current release schedule looks something like this:
Q1 Orlock, Gang War 2, 3 hired gun models, Orlock weapon sprue, Badzone Delta-7 tile set (including duplicate arc template set)
2 White Dwarf articles containing rules for Genestealer Cult and Chaos Cultist gangs using existing Neophyte Hybrid and Cultist kits
Q2 Van Saar, Gang War 3, Goliath/Escher weapons sprue
White Dwarf article containing rules for a bounty hunter gang
Q3 Cawdor, Gang War 4
Q4 Delaque, Gang War 5
They also apparently told retailers they have an 18 month release schedule planned and this could indicate two quarters of releases after Delaque already planned (unless it suddenly flops).
Yodhrin wrote: Good try bub, but hyperbolic sarcasm doesn't disguise the fact you're not actually addressing anything. You use those to add flavour to an argument where you're in the right, not in a desperate attempt to shift goalposts around to disguise the vacuousness of your position.
Oh no. My intent was to mock the hyperbolic bluster of individuals whose posting styles equate to pounding one piano key repeatedly for months on end. Hope that makes things clearer.
Here's the Cliffs Notes version of the rest -- any vast difference in the two situations only exists due your skewed personal definition of 'complete game experience'. You're obviously already highly committed to your particular point of view, so why would I even bother to fully engage with you on the topic? This is why I have you on ignore....not because you're an offensive poster but because usually there's just no point in trying to exchange ideas with you.
Sorry Yodhrin, I really like you as a poster on Dakka, but are you saying you cant play the new necromunda straight out of the box?
Yes, that's what I'm saying. You can play Underhive straight out of the box, a fun but limited game that depicts a series of fights between two specific gangs, but not Necromunda. Necromunda means the six houses engaging in campaign gameplay with a feature-complete postgame sequence and access to all the commonplace equipment we had last time around.
Yodhrin wrote: Except that's garbage, and you know fine well it's garbage. You can buy Horus Heresy Book One - Betrayal and play Horus Heresy games. No muss, no fuss, no extras, one single book. Is it the *best* version of Heresy gaming? No. But it is feature complete and functional out of the box and includes everything you expect would be there in a product in that setting. The follow up books add to that experience, they expand it, they deepen it, but not a single one of them is necessary to make the game function at the expected level, not one of them feels like they are holding content hostage to make you buy stuff you otherwise wouldn't have.
Yeah, you got me, you scamp.
It's totally different, and no one has ever seen 30K players demanding more support. It's been nothing but pure contentment after Betrayal. WS players are happier than a clam knowing it's only until 2019 before they can properly play their Legion like everyone else. Seven years is nothing in geologic time. Late 2018 is practically here already for BA and DA players. And shoot, I don't think IF and AL players even want models for their primarchs. Why would they?
Meanwhile, NM can't actually be played out the box. One is just left to sigh and stare forlornly at the contents scattered across the tabletop. And when FW refused to make get-you-by rules for the old gangs publicly available, that was the ultimate feth you. Cripes, they're one step away from breaking into our homes and poisoning our pets.
WHY WON'T SOMEONE DO SOMETHING!
Good try bub, but hyperbolic sarcasm doesn't disguise the fact you're not actually addressing anything. You use those to add flavour to an argument where you're in the right, not in a desperate attempt to shift goalposts around to disguise the vacuousness of your position.
100% contentment of the playerbase was not a feature of my argument. Players having no desire for additional content was not part of my argument. The argument was that Betrayal provided a functional way to play games in the Horus Heresy. You can pick up nothing except Betrayal and play an entire Heresy campaign(indeed, many of us did) with the rules provided.
Buying Underhive and Gang War does not provide a complete, basic Necromunda experience. There are only two gangs. Big chunks of the equipment lists are missing. If FW had released Betrayal with half an army list that was missing line infantry units and inexplicably didn't contain Flamers and Plasma Guns, your objection to my comparison might begin to approach having some vague semblance of validity, but they didn't - you can play Horus Heresy games without making a single purchase beyond Betrayal, you can't even buy your guys fething chainswords in Newcromunda without purchasing at least one additional book at some unspecified future point.
Now, care to address the actual argument(ideally, with the basic level of civility of an adult human)?
Technically, assuming a couple of brand new players had wanted to start playing Horus Heresy, they would have had to buy a copy of the 40k 6th edition rules, a copy of Betrayal, some suitable terrain and a couple of 1500pt armies (since that book encourages that as a minimum army size). They would only have had to spend several hundred pounds to play “properly”.
They still wouldn’t have had any campaign rules, but would have had 4 complete factions and some scenarios to play through.
Underhive gives you 2 factions, enough minis to get started and some cardboard tiles to play on, plus a series of scenarios to play through for a fraction of the cost.
Genestealer Cults and Chaos Cults gang rules, and wargear will be coming to Necromunda early next year, after Orlock and gang war 2.
these will be coming through a pair of White Dwarf articles sometime in the spring (march-may). these will also include various additional wargear which other gangs will be able to take.
regarding the GCults; this version will focus on the mining cults of the ashwastes coming into contact with a genestealer, so will use the Neophyte Hybrids kit as its base. expect to see a larger more detailed cults gang at a later date when they explore hive secondus. but this will help provide an additional two gangs by the beginning of the summer.
don’t have much details on the chaos cults rules, but there are chaos tokens, and a tile with an eight point star in blood in the new expansion set of tiles coming with GW2. so would expect some cult ritual mission of some sort.
Garro on 11-26-2017
got some more in depth about the Genestealer and chaos cult gang lists coming next year.
-they’ll both be appearing in White Dwarf.
-both gangs will be based around the existing kits (No new models)
-Genestealer cults (GC) will focus around the neophite-hybrids with a sub-primus leader, and able to take Aberrants in the gangs. they’ll have full access to the entire GC armoury including weapons in the acolytes kits. these weapons should be added to the trading posts lists in the article, but will be in Gang War 3 (GW3) for certain.
-Chaos cults will be god neutral. but will be able to preform a ritual between games, to one of the gods. if successful, your gang gets a buff based on the god, and if it fails, a random member of your gang (other than the leader) turns into a spawn, and remains like it (spawn is added to the gang roster). you get bonuses to the ritual roll, if you stick to the same god, and get negative modifers if you chop and change.
-both gangs will have full gang rules, and access to trading posts .etc so will be able to include other non-faction gear as campaigns go on.
-both factions will have a low-power psyker option.
Summer will be a good time to make a campaign With 4 full gangs, 3 "renegades" gangs and big market.
Sounds great, but I was expecting to get rules for these much earlier. Seems like Necro will pretty much be unplayable till the beginning of the summer. Don't want to sound like a broken record, but I really think it would have been preferable to push back the release of the game till at least a few more gangs were ready to go.
As for the chaos cultist gang, they will be severly limited in term of gears. Hope there are rules for summing daemons, cause if not, they'll be boring as frag.
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Mymearan wrote: To take a short break from the eternal discussion on the release schedule and actually talk about the game for once...
Who else is checking out the rules? Has anyone played a campaign yet? I’m reading through the books now and I’m seriously impressed. It looks to me as though they took the best bits of old Necro, removed or improved the worst, and added a whole bunch of great stuff that immediately stands out to us Necro veterans as “of course! Why didn’t I think of that...”. The new campaign system seems super fun and I love how they’ve incorporated “seasons” into the main rules, with a proper end to a campaign (with huge potential for additions in future supplements), in-between campaign stuff and rules for bringing your gang (or an off-shoot) into the next campaign. After reading this I’m VERY excited for future Gang War books as these systems seem busy it to be endlessly customisable with fun, narrative-creating additions! Huge kudos to Andy Hoare and his team!
Agreed. Rules looks great so far.
Did anyone catched a use for Willpower or LD yet?
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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: When it comes down to it, how different is this to Codex or Army books really?
For me, it again all comes down to the content of each volume. It’s one thing to add cost to a game, quite another to add value.
Gang War 1 works for me. It’s added a poop load of rules to a boxed game intended to be a complete experience in itself.
Gang War 2 promises a new Gang, plus further rules. If you’ll excuse the pun, on paper that sounds reasonable enough.
White Dwarf will carry rules for Chaos and Genestealer Cults. I’m ok with that.
Gang War 3? Well, it seems after Orlocks it’s Van Saar, so there’s some interest from me there. But, I want more. I can’t define what ‘acceptable’ content would be for me. GW are creative types, I’m not. But if the Van Saar rules are the only reason for me to buy it, that’s gonna be an issue. I don’t want to be paying near Codex prices for limited content.
From there? Much the same.
But now is the time to be feeding back to GW. We can’t tell them what we don’t want, because we’ve limited info on what’s planned. We can of course tell them what we do want to see. As YMMV, I’m not gonna say what you should want etc. I will again encourage peeps to engage with GW though.
I'd expect a gang war to contain the putlaw rules. But then, it might only be release with a gang that came with outlanders
Yodhrin wrote: Good try bub, but hyperbolic sarcasm doesn't disguise the fact you're not actually addressing anything. You use those to add flavour to an argument where you're in the right, not in a desperate attempt to shift goalposts around to disguise the vacuousness of your position.
Oh no. My intent was to mock the hyperbolic bluster of individuals whose posting styles equate to pounding one piano key repeatedly for months on end. Hope that makes things clearer.
Here's the Cliffs Notes version of the rest -- any vast difference in the two situations only exists due your skewed personal definition of 'complete game experience'. You're obviously already highly committed to your particular point of view, so why would I even bother to fully engage with you on the topic? This is why I have you on ignore....not because you're an offensive poster but because usually there's just no point in trying to exchange ideas with you.
When the rule writers themselves state that the game really shines as a campaign game, it's pretty much an admission that the rules in underhive are incomplete
Willpower is gonna be more of a thing when psykers start turning up but, for now at least, there’s the Fearsome skill which as of Gang War requires a Wil test.
For Leadership you have the Inspirational and Regroup skills that basically allow you to substitute one model’s Ld check for another’s Cl check.
Mandragola and yodhrin are making the case better than me. "Immoral" is an overstatement. This doesn't make them evil people! I am also sure the design team have a genuine passion for what they do, and probably don't call some of the more questionable shots here.
When I talk about business ethics, I simply mean holding yourself to some principles, and generally treating customers in a straightforward way. As Mandragola says, this is more about good sense than a moral right/wrong. What makes me angry is as much the frustration with what a senselessly daft move it is as how much it affects me personally. Will impede the emergence of an active player base and hurt the game.
I should have known that you lot would find a way to defend this, nevermind have a go at me for trying to voice me frustration. This psuedo-zen "buy or not buy" is bs. I don't know how much money you guys have, but I am poor. I have loved this game for years, and excitedly saved up for it. My birthday was a week before the release so I treated myself and was super excited.
As I maybe didn't make clear enough, they could have released the rules for extra gangs, codex style. It would feel a bit cheap, but I wouldn't have been that annoyed. As it stands, the game really feels incomplete on release, and there is every indication that I will have to buy a number of books I simply can't afford if I want to fix that, even if I don't want to play those gangs.
Party Boy wrote: Mandragola and yodhrin are making the case better than me. "Immoral" is an overstatement. This doesn't make them evil people! I am also sure the design team have a genuine passion for what they do, and probably don't call some of the more questionable shots here.
When I talk about business ethics, I simply mean holding yourself to some principles, and generally treating customers in a straightforward way. As Mandragola says, this is more about good sense than a moral right/wrong. What makes me angry is as much the frustration with what a senselessly daft move it is as how much it affects me personally. Will impede the emergence of an active player base and hurt the game.
I should have known that you lot would find a way to defend this, nevermind have a go at me for trying to voice me frustration. This psuedo-zen "buy or not buy" is bs. I don't know how much money you guys have, but I am poor. I have loved this game for years, and excitedly saved up for it. My birthday was a week before the release so I treated myself and was super excited.
As I maybe didn't make clear enough, they could have released the rules for extra gangs, codex style. It would feel a bit cheap, but I wouldn't have been that annoyed. As it stands, the game really feels incomplete on release, and there is every indication that I will have to buy a number of books I simply can't afford if I want to fix that, even if I don't want to play those gangs.
And that is the very definition of a gouge.
yeah, for some, it seems to be a duty to defend any moves made by GW. Makes you wonder if some of these posters are actually GW employees.
WatcherZero wrote: The current release schedule looks something like this:
Q1 Orlock, Gang War 2, 3 hired gun models, Orlock weapon sprue, Badzone Delta-7 tile set (including duplicate arc template set)
2 White Dwarf articles containing rules for Genestealer Cult and Chaos Cultist gangs using existing Neophyte Hybrid and Cultist kits
Q2 Van Saar, Gang War 3, Goliath/Escher weapons sprue
White Dwarf article containing rules for a bounty hunter gang
Q3 Cawdor, Gang War 4
Q4 Delaque, Gang War 5
They also apparently told retailers they have an 18 month release schedule planned and this could indicate two quarters of releases after Delaque already planned (unless it suddenly flops).
Don't expect a specific 'pattern' to the Gang War books. The first one is not a template for the remainder.
WatcherZero wrote: The current release schedule looks something like this:
Q1 Orlock, Gang War 2, 3 hired gun models, Orlock weapon sprue, Badzone Delta-7 tile set (including duplicate arc template set)
2 White Dwarf articles containing rules for Genestealer Cult and Chaos Cultist gangs using existing Neophyte Hybrid and Cultist kits
Q2 Van Saar, Gang War 3, Goliath/Escher weapons sprue
White Dwarf article containing rules for a bounty hunter gang
Q3 Cawdor, Gang War 4
Q4 Delaque, Gang War 5
They also apparently told retailers they have an 18 month release schedule planned and this could indicate two quarters of releases after Delaque already planned (unless it suddenly flops).
Don't expect a specific 'pattern' to the Gang War books. The first one is not a template for the remainder.
I could just about get over it if they use GW 2 to patch up the rules, then release multiple gangs with subsequent books and only include non essential rules. I know this is a bit of a loose criteria but the rules as are are definitely incomplete. I would consider "expansion" stuff like vehicles, outlaw gangs, etc acceptable extra content to incentivise purchase. This is a) optimistic given what we have seen so far and b) still a bandaid on a pretty patchy release.
On that note, let me add something positive. My criticisms of release policy isn't a criticism of the game they are actually releasing which looks pretty good (having played 1 test game).
Don't expect a specific 'pattern' to the Gang War books. The first one is not a template for the remainder.
They said each quarter will have a new gang kit and accompanying Gang War book they also said the contents of Gang War 2 are Orlock and Hired Gun rules (novice mercenaries with weak stats/weapon options such as armourer, scout and medic) and Harpoon guns,
Gang War 3 will have Van Saar and Bounty Hunter rules (veteran mercenaries with many skills/weapon options) as well as expanding the trading post/armoury to allow the playing of all Imperial weapons and wargear.
So that sounds pretty template following, each one contains a gang and a small expansion of the ruleset.
They said each quarter will have a new gang, and that GW2 would have rules for the Orlocks. Where did they say that each gang war book would be for that gang?
As I said, don't look to the current Gang War book as the template going forward. Things are not as set in stone as you think.
When they said the rules for each gang not accompanied by a kit would be in White Dwarf rather than a gang war supplement but that they could do a Bloodstealer and Chaos Cultist kit with expanded weapon/equipment options and own rule books after next year. They said Gang War 2 had been completely written and Gang War 3 was mostly complete.
We don't know the contents of gang war 4 and 5 and they might indeed not follow the same template but the first 3 are already written do follow that template.
I personally would expect some kind of Omnibus next Christmas or Q1 2019 that collated the books so far to make it easier for late starters and possibly a revised starting set for next Christmas.
H.B.M.C. wrote: But that's not the same thing as say that each Gang War would follow the same style (1 Gang/1 Hire Gun/1 Rule Expansion/etc.).
Anyway, I'll stop playing with you: I'm not guessing when I say things like this. I'm not interpreting rumours. I'm not extrapolating detail.
I've been told. Direct.
No points for vagueness. Share with the class if you want people to believe you.
Not that you can or will, but surely you realize how ridiculous that sounds?
"My uncle works at nintendo..."
If you know who I am you know what I've done, and doubting me would be foolish. Suffice to say a lot of my initial reactions and thoughts (especially the negative ones) were completely wrong. I jumped to too many conclusions, and have since been set straight.
You can choose to believe me or not, that's up to you.
WatcherZero wrote: We don't know the contents of gang war 4 and 5 and they might indeed not follow the same template but the first 3 are already written do follow that template.
I personally would expect some kind of Omnibus next Christmas or Q1 2019 that collated the books so far to make it easier for late starters and possibly a revised starting set for next Christmas.
Some kind of compilation later on would be helpful just for the sake of not having to haul around too many books. Also having to pick up and flip through and switch around multiple books is annoying and slightly time consuming. This is more apparent for me as this is my first venture into the game, and half the time i'm not sure if i've got the rules right. Right now I only have to do it with 1-2 at the most with the current setup, which is tolerable. I think it's safe to say each new gang war book will contain one of the four remaining clan houses. I wouldn't mind it if they did another underhive tile set that was more gang territory specific, with graffiti and and house specific iconography. However that suggests just aesthetics..but that is fine by me. They also said the new badzone tiles will have unique rules (also having had a look at some better images of the tiles I am really excited about them, they look a lot more interesting and flavorful than the initial set while still fitting in perfectly.) I know people like to bag on the tiles but having a modular and easily transportable setup is convenient sometimes. It is likely Orlocks will fare better than Escher on the tiles..so that is something to keep in mind.
A thought on lugging books around. And only a thought.
Traditionally, that’s not what Necromunda is, game wise. Least ways not in my experience.
What I’ve found is that much like a TTRPG, it’s on the games master to have the necessary books at the gaming locale. And like TTRPG, my gaming circle has always had a single gaming location for any campaign.
This time, it’ll be round my flat. I’ve got a beautiful antique, glass fronted bookcase. You need the rules? They’ll be in there alongside most of other Rule books.
And if I don’t have a given book or article, no using it. I’m the GM, so I need to know the stuff inside out. Again, no different to a TTRPG.
Of course, you may want to buy the books relevant to yourself (or all of them. It’s your money) so you can bone up yourself. But there’ll be little need to lug them over to mine. You’ll just need to bring your Gang, and your roster. And beer, because you’re not drinking my beer. That’s my ticket to Lobotomy Bay and we are not sharing a cabin!
See, Necromunda at its best isn’t particularly well suited to random pick up games. It’s a campaign game at heart. And like any campaign game, there have to be ground rules set out. That covers attendance, consequences of missing games etc. Part of those should be a discussion about what format of rules are acceptable. My thoughts on that are just above - you’ve probably read them already. Recap? No need to bring your own books, you can use mine. But no using rules I don’t own myself.
Feel free to adopt, adapt or ignore. It’s your campaign, I’m just some intergoon giving a non binding speech. If you want to accept photocopies of the rules salient to the arranged game, cool. If you want to accept hand written copies, cool. Just make sure your players know what’s in and what’s out, and keep it consistent. Someone kicking off about a GM choice? Maybe they’re not someone you particularly want in the campaign?
Remember, more than 40k or AoS which are Wargames, Necromunda is very much a Hobby Game. As well as buying your models, you need to literally create a Gang, and a background for them. It’s expected that you’ll choose and paint a theme for them. It’s also generally required that new equipment is reasonably modelled on the models, because WYSIWYG is incredibly very bloody important in Necromunda. If you’re not spending st least as much time painting and modelling as gaming, you may be missing out on a huge part of the Hobby’s appeal!
Which reminds me. Must see if my Bro still has those Eldar close combat weapon Sprues. That Powerfist is effing ideal for an Escher Powerfist...
Traditionally, that’s not what Necromunda is, game wise. Least ways not in my experience.
What I’ve found is that much like a TTRPG, it’s on the games master to have the necessary books at the gaming locale. And like TTRPG, my gaming circle has always had a single gaming location for any campaign.
In some ways you're right, but then again for Necromunda we really only had three books.
Just by virtue of me being an obsessive terrain hoarder, I own several copies of the Necromunda rule and sourcebooks, so there was enough that we could have 2-3 games going on and people in various stages of the post-battle sequence. If one of us was playing a gang from a Gang War or Necromunda Magazine issue, then they just kept that with them.
Having a separate books for the main gangs though could be an issue. I do wish they'd release the scenarios online, so you could print them and put them in an ever-growing binder.
Not everyone is replying to you. ;-) My point built on yours as part of a prior discussion. It is in no way a rebuttal of your post simply by being consecutive... look at the first line of MDG's post.
When I talk about business ethics, I simply mean holding yourself to some principles, and generally treating customers in a straightforward way. As Mandragola says, this is more about good sense than a moral right/wrong. What makes me angry is as much the frustration with what a senselessly daft move it is as how much it affects me personally. Will impede the emergence of an active player base and hurt the game.
That's where I am. I went from "Necromunda's back! Gotta check this out!" to "Eh....let's wait till the game is actually complete, and preferably not gratuitously split up into a half-dozen premium books."
But they are treating us in a straight forward way?
Necromunda Underhive is a deliberate, 'all in one' boxed game. With no need to expand upon it. It's a complete gaming experience in and of itself.
Necromunda Gang War are expansion rules for those of us who want to delve deeper.
The part of the company running this show is comparatively tiny. Finite resources, finite man hours. So they've plumped for a longer release schedule so they can get the product out on shelves sooner rather than later.
They've not been dishonest with us at any point, so where's the 'business ethics' there?
This all boils down to 'well it wasn't like this in the past'.
Yes. Yes it was. Necromunda didn't launch with everything released. I can't remember the exact release schedule, but it wasn't a one and done. You may have come along when everything was out - but it still took time to get there. Hell, this was a time when GW were releasing one Imperial Assassin a month, let alone all the models for an entire game system.
Ultimately, GW are doing what they think is the right thing in the situation. That you happen to disagree doesn't make them wrong.
As for longevity? Having fairly regular releases and additions is a way to keep the game's profile up. If everything was out on release day, you get Shadow War Armageddon - lovely when it comes out, but soon lost amongst the tumult of general releases.
I went from being curious at first (Atia rumors in September 2016) to the more I saw the more I like it. Also an interesting bit of info, HBMC, thanks for posting.
So... is there any info on how you actually go about recruiting Gor Half-Horn (or any other hired gun for that matter) in a Newcromunda campaign game? Because going by the rules pdf, apparently you need to spend 235 credits to have it for just one game, and that can't possibly be right.
@Neronoxx H.B.M.C. is probably being as clear as he can within the terms of his NDA. He's worked on lots of 40k stuff as a freelancer, mostly the RPGs and is well known to the design studio, and Andy Hoare in particular (who also did a lot of work on the RPGs I believe). It's really not a stretch to imagine he's got information we don't, but is not yet at liberty to make it public.
I confess to being a bit disappointed with the speed of the release schedule from what we've heard so far, and I'm a little unhappy with the incomplete nature of the gang war book. Some of the disparities in points, and the weirdness with wargear lists are concerning, and I think that maybe new players who are less on the hype train than I am will be put off by that.
But on the other hand, I'm enjoying assembling and painting the models, and I'm fortunate that I will likely only be playing a campaign with a friend, rather than attempting to play pick-up games or store-based campaigns, which means houseruling will let me patch any holes (hopefully).
Also, if the rumours about Cults are accurate, I'll be a happy chap.
I think my impatience with the release schedule is mostly due to the glimmers of really great stuff that are already present in the game - I really do think that when (if?) we have a complete ruleset, it will be a really good system. So I'm positive, but I think some mistakes are being made.
My main concern is that by having a fragmented, drawn-out birth for the game may make it hard to build any real momentum, and GW will drop it.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Yes. Yes it was. Necromunda didn't launch with everything released. I can't remember the exact release schedule, but it wasn't a one and done. You may have come along when everything was out - but it still took time to get there. Hell, this was a time when GW were releasing one Imperial Assassin a month, let alone all the models for an entire game system.
I agree, mostly... but it launched with all the "core stuff". That being full house rules, full trading post, full hired gun rules, full campaign rules in the box... what most people call the core of the Necromunda game, in other words. And they have not done that, not even buying the separate Gang War book.
It's almost there, but for me, rules for using bounty hunters, scum, ratskin scouts, pit fighters et all should really have been in the Gang War book, particularly because they have released a hired gun already, and we really don't have any idea of how they're actually supposed to work.
Albertorius wrote: So... is there any info on how you actually go about recruiting Gor Half-Horn (or any other hired gun for that matter) in a Newcromunda campaign game? Because going by the rules pdf, apparently you need to spend 235 credits to have it for just one game, and that can't possibly be right.
...right?
I'll pop my one open tonight, see if the rules inside explain that.
One concern I have is with the sprues for the Eschers and Goliaths. They're great and have some really nice parts but I wasn't expecting to get two of the same sprue for each gang.
I expect that there is scope for more releases later on, a veteran ganger box with heavier equipment and some more bling parts, and bodies with slightly different poses/details on them, and a juvie box with the opposite of that but adding more variety in parts. With three sprues that would really expand the scope of what you could do. It's just, listening to you all go back and forth on the release schedule for the core gangs it makes me wonder if that is actually something that will happen and how long it might take.
I'm not super worried about the current trickle, it's going to take me a while to get around to painting it all up and finding some games anyway, if at all. I'd just like the chance to make a larger number of unique gangers and while kitbashing outside the range is going to happen for sure sooner or later only having that one sprue is going to be a limiting factor.
emptyhat wrote: One concern I have is with the sprues for the Eschers and Goliaths. They're great and have some really nice parts but I wasn't expecting to get two of the same sprue for each gang.
I expect that there is scope for more releases later on, a veteran ganger box with heavier equipment and some more bling parts, and bodies with slightly different poses/details on them, and a juvie box with the opposite of that but adding more variety in parts. With three sprues that would really expand the scope of what you could do. It's just, listening to you all go back and forth on the release schedule for the core gangs it makes me wonder if that is actually something that will happen and how long it might take.
I'm not super worried about the current trickle, it's going to take me a while to get around to painting it all up and finding some games anyway, if at all. I'd just like the chance to make a larger number of unique gangers and while kitbashing outside the range is going to happen for sure sooner or later only having that one sprue is going to be a limiting factor.
Forgeworld have spoken about doing upgrade packs and weapon packs for each house, I would expect juves, heavies and alternate leaders here. how modular they are is anyone's guess though.
Even though old Necromunda was spread out over a few books and years, there's no need for it this time.
Last time, they were adding to it as they knew how things worked, and pulled in fluff from elsewhere as it was written. Now though, everything has been in place for a long time, they have had the rules for years to read through, and fan-made content to skim off.
So, the only reason to spread this version over so many books is for money. Everything has been written, it could have been released at the start.
Putting all of the rules in the main rulebook would have been best, with gangs released later in pairs.
What they have done right is telling us how long we have to wait for each part. Knowing that it will all be out within a year, I am avoiding going to 3rd party model makers to get the Van Saar models I want.
emptyhat wrote: One concern I have is with the sprues for the Eschers and Goliaths. They're great and have some really nice parts but I wasn't expecting to get two of the same sprue for each gang.
Don't blind purchases. They have pictures of the sprue on the website, there're dozen of unboxing videoes during the two week preorder period that you can see for yourself. Don't buy without knowing what you are getting.
Albertorius wrote: So... is there any info on how you actually go about recruiting Gor Half-Horn (or any other hired gun for that matter) in a Newcromunda campaign game? Because going by the rules pdf, apparently you need to spend 235 credits to have it for just one game, and that can't possibly be right.
...right?
I'll pop my one open tonight, see if the rules inside explain that.
Skinnereal wrote: Even though old Necromunda was spread out over a few books and years, there's no need for it this time.
Last time, they were adding to it as they knew how things worked, and pulled in fluff from elsewhere as it was written. Now though, everything has been in place for a long time, they have had the rules for years to read through, and fan-made content to skim off.
So, the only reason to spread this version over so many books is for money. Everything has been written, it could have been released at the start.
Putting all of the rules in the main rulebook would have been best, with gangs released later in pairs.
What they have done right is telling us how long we have to wait for each part. Knowing that it will all be out within a year, I am avoiding going to 3rd party model makers to get the Van Saar models I want.
Or production limitations?
Or it's the business model best placed to sustain gamer investment in the game over a longer period, thus adding to the system's longevity?
Cawdor concept sketches are done, but models not sculpted. From what I could glean, no concept sketches shared of Delaque yet. Does that sound like they were in a position to release everything all at once?
Perhaps, but that doesn't mean it's the "right" way, as far as some people are concerned. Also, the reality of how they'll deliver the game only came to light quite late on in the process, so there's a question of just how open they were, and when.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Necromunda Underhive is a deliberate, 'all in one' boxed game. With no need to expand upon it. It's a complete gaming experience in and of itself.
Necromunda Gang War are expansion rules for those of us who want to delve deeper.
The part of the company running this show is comparatively tiny. Finite resources, finite man hours. So they've plumped for a longer release schedule so they can get the product out on shelves sooner rather than later.
The inner workings of a company are irrelevant to me as the customer as far as excusing their business practices is concerned. There may be legitimate logistical reasons for a certain approach but that's the company's problem, not mine. If I, as a customer, feel it impacts the quality of the product or leads to business practices I think are wrong, the background reasons behind those decisions don't really matter. The impression it creates is what matters. If logistical issues prevent the game releasing in a feature-complete state it's up to the business to figure out how to solve that. The complaints people have been making relate to the way GW have chosen to address this issue. Simply stating the reasons for doing something doesn't magically make it OK.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: They've not been dishonest with us at any point, so where's the 'business ethics' there?
This all boils down to 'well it wasn't like this in the past'.
Yes. Yes it was. Necromunda didn't launch with everything released. I can't remember the exact release schedule, but it wasn't a one and done. You may have come along when everything was out - but it still took time to get there. Hell, this was a time when GW were releasing one Imperial Assassin a month, let alone all the models for an entire game system.
The original Necromunda was a feature-complete game with rules for all 6 House gangs, all available weapons and a complete campaign system, including a number of Hired Guns and a full post-game sequence. The current Necromunda doesn't have that. The real problem is that GW have chosen to call the game Necromunda. That name means something to a lot of people. It implies a game based on a campaign system with gang progression and a fairly involved post-game sequence. It doesn't imply a pick-up style pseudo-board game. GW are trying to trade on the name so I think people are within their rights to complain about the numerous ways they have diverged from what Necromunda was and the way they have cut up the various parts of the game in what many see as an attempt to nickel and dime the player base.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Ultimately, GW are doing what they think is the right thing in the situation. That you happen to disagree doesn't make them wrong.
As for longevity? Having fairly regular releases and additions is a way to keep the game's profile up. If everything was out on release day, you get Shadow War Armageddon - lovely when it comes out, but soon lost amongst the tumult of general releases.
OTOH, if enough people are turned off by what they see as shady, money-grabbing policies there won't be a community by the time enough material is released for them to consider the game feature-complete.
Business practices are business practices. FFG are a bunch of mercenary little toads in my eyes when it comes to how they sell stuff for X-Wing. Can't say it's made a noticeable difference to the game's success.
The old Necromunda didn't make enough money. So it ended.
The new Necromunda is aiming to make more cash and keep going longer.
The format may of been a bad choice, but if we want necro they need to make it profitable. If you want to be a customer there needs to be a product to buy. Like you say it works both ways, but they tried one way of doing things and it didn't work out.
I can see and understand the points people are making but luckily I only play casual and amongst friends so little of it is of much concern to me.
EDIT: my only real concern is people getting bored between releases. I would of thought 2 gangs per book would of avoided a lot of this upset plus lead to healthier campaigns sooner.
I just wish the new gang war books will contain TP and weapon stat lists that will contain all the weapons, both the old ones and the new ones, rather than the information being scattered across several books. It is already annoying with two books and the PDF, it will be utter nightmare when there will be more books unless there is a master list containing all weapons in one book.
Unless the subsequent books add more equipment available to all gangs, that doesn't concern me. I play Escher - I don't need the stats for Orlock-only weapons, so I don't need to reference GW2.
Skinnereal wrote: Even though old Necromunda was spread out over a few books and years, there's no need for it this time.
Last time, they were adding to it as they knew how things worked, and pulled in fluff from elsewhere as it was written. Now though, everything has been in place for a long time, they have had the rules for years to read through, and fan-made content to skim off.
So, the only reason to spread this version over so many books is for money. Everything has been written, it could have been released at the start.
Putting all of the rules in the main rulebook would have been best, with gangs released later in pairs.
What they have done right is telling us how long we have to wait for each part. Knowing that it will all be out within a year, I am avoiding going to 3rd party model makers to get the Van Saar models I want.
Or production limitations?
Or it's the business model best placed to sustain gamer investment in the game over a longer period, thus adding to the system's longevity?
Cawdor concept sketches are done, but models not sculpted. From what I could glean, no concept sketches shared of Delaque yet. Does that sound like they were in a position to release everything all at once?
Uuh if they aren't sculpted yet we are looking at like 2019 release. Late 2018 in hopefully.
And of course he wasn't saying they could release the models right away? Seen in text you quoted.
EDIT: my only real concern is people getting bored between releases. I would of thought 2 gangs per book would of avoided a lot of this upset plus lead to healthier campaigns sooner.
That's what the "legacy gangs" pdf is for. Plenty of time to run a campaign now, then for the Orlock players, GW2 comes out early next year in time for the next campaign season.
You have evidence though? Hopefully your evidence of it is not it was killed off because GW has killed off games that exceeded their own expectations at 400%. Why they would greenlight anything if they expect to sell so little that 400% exceedings aren't enough?
You have evidence though? Hopefully your evidence of it is not it was killed off because GW has killed off games that exceeded their own expectations at 400%. Why they would greenlight anything if they expect to sell so little that 400% exceedings aren't enough?
IIRC it was when GW switched over to "Finecast". They decided the old pewter models weren't worth switching over to the new production method as they were less profitable than 40K, Fantasy and LoTR's. I will try to find the article where I read that but it was a while ago now.
You have evidence though? Hopefully your evidence of it is not it was killed off because GW has killed off games that exceeded their own expectations at 400%. Why they would greenlight anything if they expect to sell so little that 400% exceedings aren't enough?
What is this '400% expectation' game you speak of?
I am struggling to find anything solid as evidence. There is a 4 page Dakka thread where pretty much everyone agrees it was against GW's current business model to support SG. Cash flow is usually the reason that GW do strange things. Its why the old world got blown up (still saddens me) and why we have two tiers of space marine.
Business practices are business practices. FFG are a bunch of mercenary little toads in my eyes when it comes to how they sell stuff for X-Wing. Can't say it's made a noticeable difference to the game's success.
I have decided not to buy (and got a bunch of people criticising me for saying as much, I might add).
I am not whining. This is a discussion forum, yes? I am discussing the reasons for me not buying and attempting to explain them, to further understanding and discussion.
I know some people aren't a fan of FFG's business model and that's fair enough, but there's more to the success of a game than how it is sold but the effect the business model has on sales is part of the overall picture that determines success. FFG seem to have been successful by having a number of factors in their favour:
1. Star Wars!
2. A good price point
3. Support for competitive play, which generates goodwill and buzz in FLGSs
You have evidence though? Hopefully your evidence of it is not it was killed off because GW has killed off games that exceeded their own expectations at 400%. Why they would greenlight anything if they expect to sell so little that 400% exceedings aren't enough?
What is this '400% expectation' game you speak of?
Epic Armageddon. Exceeded sales by 400% according to Jervis Johnson(the guy in charge of specialist games)
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Ruin_In_The_Dark wrote: I am struggling to find anything solid as evidence. There is a 4 page Dakka thread where pretty much everyone agrees it was against GW's current business model to support SG. Cash flow is usually the reason that GW do strange things. Its why the old world got blown up (still saddens me) and why we have two tiers of space marine.
Or it was false view by Kirby that SG's are competing with FB/40k. Why sell 4 games to players if GW can drop resources to all but 2 games and players shift 100% purchaces to FB/40k. That was the theory anyway. Didn't occur that some people actually might not want just FB/40k and so would spend more money with more games available.
I am not saying it was a smart idea to get rid of SG. It was a terrible decision IMO. As was blowing up the Old World and Primaris Marines (again IMO).
But if GW didn't feel it was profitable enough (regardless of whether that was mismanagement or actually true) then its not surprising they are doing something differently this time.
This was pretty much the point I gave up on GW, its only the recent changes that have brought me back.
I thought SG were dropped when Hobbit/LotR came out because they needed to focus all their resources to a third main game. It’s been a long time and I’m getting older by the moment, so I could be misremembering.
Theophony wrote: I thought SG were dropped when Hobbit/LotR came out because they needed to focus all their resources to a third main game. It’s been a long time and I’m getting older by the moment, so I could be misremembering.
That could well be true, like I say it was a long time ago. I always got the impression they wanted to remove the option of having 20 model collections in favour of 100+ model collections.
Business practices are business practices. FFG are a bunch of mercenary little toads in my eyes when it comes to how they sell stuff for X-Wing. Can't say it's made a noticeable difference to the game's success.
I have decided not to buy (and got a bunch of people criticising me for saying as much, I might add).
I am not whining. This is a discussion forum, yes? I am discussing the reasons for me not buying and attempting to explain them, to further understanding and discussion.
True... But this is News and Rumours and not General discussion... We really had this ad infinitum now.
AndrewGPaul wrote: Unless the subsequent books add more equipment available to all gangs, that doesn't concern me. I play Escher - I don't need the stats for Orlock-only weapons, so I don't need to reference GW2.
They said they would expand the trading post, everyone can use thise items.
You have evidence though? Hopefully your evidence of it is not it was killed off because GW has killed off games that exceeded their own expectations at 400%. Why they would greenlight anything if they expect to sell so little that 400% exceedings aren't enough?
What is this '400% expectation' game you speak of?
Epic Armageddon. Exceeded sales by 400% according to Jervis Johnson(the guy in charge of specialist games)
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Ruin_In_The_Dark wrote: I am struggling to find anything solid as evidence. There is a 4 page Dakka thread where pretty much everyone agrees it was against GW's current business model to support SG. Cash flow is usually the reason that GW do strange things. Its why the old world got blown up (still saddens me) and why we have two tiers of space marine.
Or it was false view by Kirby that SG's are competing with FB/40k. Why sell 4 games to players if GW can drop resources to all but 2 games and players shift 100% purchaces to FB/40k. That was the theory anyway. Didn't occur that some people actually might not want just FB/40k and so would spend more money with more games available.
Have you got a source for where Jervis said that? I'd be interested in reading where he's talking about actual percentages.
Upon further inspection I found out Goliath gang store description is wrong.
They have 8 heads on each sprue, 3 of them have mask, 1 mask is accessory hanging on the belt. It mean 8/10 ganger have access to mask.
Which is kinda ironic because Escher was the house of chemical and poison weapon but they only have 2 mask on each sprue, 1 of them isn't even a respirator, it's just a cloth mask.
Chopstick wrote: Upon further inspection I found out Goliath gang store description is wrong.
They have 8 heads on each sprue, 3 of them have mask, 1 mask is accessory hanging on the belt. It mean 8/10 ganger have access to mask.
Which is kinda ironic because Escher was the house of chemical and poison weapon but they only have 2 mask on each sprue, 1 of them isn't even a respirator, it's just a cloth mask.
They can afford better tech, so rather than Respirators they have Filter Plugs…..
That's a false dilemma, and a double one, at that. You can like some of the decisions made for the game and buy it while at the same time not liking others, so even if you "buy" you can "whine".
Plus, stating what you like and what you don't is not "whining", its giving an opinion. Saying that the game is incomplete when compared with the "core Necromunda" that people has come to expect is stating a fact, no matter how complete or incomplete might the core box be in relation with itself.
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Ruin_In_The_Dark wrote: I am struggling to find anything solid as evidence. There is a 4 page Dakka thread where pretty much everyone agrees it was against GW's current business model to support SG. Cash flow is usually the reason that GW do strange things. Its why the old world got blown up (still saddens me) and why we have two tiers of space marine.
Usually it has more to do with allocation of resources. Not so much "this game doesn't make money" as "the resources spent doing this game would make much more revenue when used on this other stuff" kinda deal. That's what they told us back in the day to the lowly redshirts when they discontinued the SG lines.
Business practices are business practices. FFG are a bunch of mercenary little toads in my eyes when it comes to how they sell stuff for X-Wing. Can't say it's made a noticeable difference to the game's success.
''Whining'' gives feedback to a company, feedback that any good company should use in order to improve.
Slipspace wrote: I am not whining. This is a discussion forum, yes?
The two are not mutually exclusive. Look, this is what GW offers. Explaining why it upsets you to us doesn't change it. I mean, this thread has added a dozen pages since the game launched and I don't think I've seen anybody actually admit to playing it (I'm still assembling Escher myself). It's just been nonstop complaining about a game people refuse to try for being a game they don't want that's too similar or not similar enough to a game they can't get over. There's only so much discussion to be had there. Eventually, the people who actually bought and played the game deserve to be the center of the discussion.
I know some people aren't a fan of FFG's business model and that's fair enough, but there's more to the success of a game than how it is sold but the effect the business model has on sales is part of the overall picture that determines success. FFG seem to have been successful by having a number of factors in their favour:
1. Imperial Assault doesn't include models for the movie heroes or villains. It just included tokens for them and expected you to buy Darth Vader or Boba Fett (who is on the cover) separately. Buying them often exceeds the cost of the original game expansions.
2. Arkham Horror LCG is a cooperative card game that basically requires you to buy a second core set and then literally throw over half the cards away.
3. Runewars TMG puts valuable upgrade cards in unit packs, so even if you buy the starter set, you'll lack the two or three cards which make the units effective without rebuying units you already have.
4. FFG likes to abandon games without notice, well before they are "complete". Ask players of BattleLore 2E or Runebound 3E if they feel their games are complete.
The first three are things that FFG does that I think are worse than the Gang War situation in Necromunda. The fourth though is what keeps me up at night, and why I hesitate to jump into another FFG game system. Say what you will about Necromunda's release schedule, it's comforting to know it has one and that if the game is incomplete, it won't stay incomplete forever.
The new Necromunda is aiming to make more cash and keep going longer.
The format may of been a bad choice, but if we want necro they need to make it profitable. If you want to be a customer there needs to be a product to buy. Like you say it works both ways, but they tried one way of doing things and it didn't work out.
I can see and understand the points people are making but luckily I only play casual and amongst friends so little of it is of much concern to me.
EDIT: my only real concern is people getting bored between releases. I would of thought 2 gangs per book would of avoided a lot of this upset plus lead to healthier campaigns sooner.
Yeah, but the thing is that business model probably will hinder sales instead of inproving them. I can't think that dripfeeding the gangs will mak people more willing to buy the base games. Same thing for the rules. Hell, I unfortunately think it will have the opposite effect. How many games failed cause they weren't enough factions in the beginning!!??? Really weird that GW, choose this approach. Seems like they don't really believe in this project and gave only a tiny amount of ressources to it. Self-fufilling prophecy as they say
The new Necromunda is aiming to make more cash and keep going longer.
The format may of been a bad choice, but if we want necro they need to make it profitable. If you want to be a customer there needs to be a product to buy. Like you say it works both ways, but they tried one way of doing things and it didn't work out.
I can see and understand the points people are making but luckily I only play casual and amongst friends so little of it is of much concern to me.
EDIT: my only real concern is people getting bored between releases. I would of thought 2 gangs per book would of avoided a lot of this upset plus lead to healthier campaigns sooner.
Yeah, but the thing is that business model probably will hinder sales instead of inproving them. I can't think that dripfeeding the gangs will mak people more willing to buy the base games. Same thing for the rules. Hell, I unfortunately think it will have the opposite effect. How many games failed cause they weren't enough factions in the beginning!!??? Really weird that GW, choose this approach. Seems like they don't really believe in this project and gave only a tiny amount of ressources to it. Self-fufilling prophecy as they say
True enough, that is a serious risk. I am merely trying to explain what I think their mindset is here.
Of course they'll do. But a miniature need to rapidly obtain a critical mass of gamers in order to thrives.
And unfortunately, they seems to have implemented some business practices that are counterproductive to this.
I'm a huge fan of necro, and 'im buying everything they release for it. Yet, I'm really scared that they are setting this up to be a failure. Hope it's not the case, cause so far the rules and minis for the games are even better than expected.
streetsamurai wrote: Of course they'll do. But a miniature need to rapidly obtain a critical mass of gamers in order to thrives.
And unfortunately, they seems to have implemented some business practices that are counterproductive to this.
I'm a huge fan of necro, and 'im buying everything they release for it. Yet, I'm really scared that they are setting this up to be a failure. Hope it's not the case, cause so far the rules and minis for the games are even better than expected.
As a long time Necromunda fan with 5 of the original core boxes and 3 of the expansions, all the gang war magazines and Necromunda magazines I’m not surprised by how this is trickling out. I am however waiting to buy any of it until there’s more content. I have enough projects and little game time right now. As long as this remains a core item and not limited release I’m good.
Resting One wrote: Is it preposterous to think that GW might profit from selling a Necromunda "Compendium" once a certain number of gangs have released?
Past practices make this....likely.
It's not a bad idea. Just in terms of inventory, it can mean keeping just one book in print, as opposed to three.
streetsamurai wrote:
How many games failed cause they weren't enough factions in the beginning!!???
I give up. How many?
It was a rethorical question.
But unsurprisingly, it went over your head
I was calling you out because I think you are full of gak. So, rather than insult me, why don't you tell me what games you think failed explicitly because they didn't have enough factions at launch?
Business practices are business practices. FFG are a bunch of mercenary little toads in my eyes when it comes to how they sell stuff for X-Wing. Can't say it's made a noticeable difference to the game's success.
''Whining'' gives feedback to a company, feedback that any good company should use in order to improve.
Providing feedback to the production company isn't whining. I absolutely agree.
But endless complaining on a non-affiliated Forum? That's whining, because it's aimless.
Business practices are business practices. FFG are a bunch of mercenary little toads in my eyes when it comes to how they sell stuff for X-Wing. Can't say it's made a noticeable difference to the game's success.
''Whining'' gives feedback to a company, feedback that any good company should use in order to improve.
Providing feedback to the production company isn't whining. I absolutely agree.
But endless complaining on a non-affiliated Forum? That's whining, because it's aimless.
Most company read unaffilated forum cause they are a mine gold for information. And there is pretty clear indications that GW read Dakka forum
Chopstick wrote: Upon further inspection I found out Goliath gang store description is wrong.
They have 8 heads on each sprue, 3 of them have mask, 1 mask is accessory hanging on the belt. It mean 8/10 ganger have access to mask.
Which is kinda ironic because Escher was the house of chemical and poison weapon but they only have 2 mask on each sprue, 1 of them isn't even a respirator, it's just a cloth mask.
Makes sense given that Escher is Goliath's mortal enemy.. You want to be prepared when they are going to be spraying you or filling the tunnels with gas.
Sounds great, but I was expecting to get rules for these much earlier. Seems like Necro will pretty much be unplayable till the beginning of the summer. Don't want to sound like a broken record, but I really think it would have been preferable to push back the release of the game till at least a few more gangs were ready to go.
Pretty much unplayable?WHAT!!?
Serioudly, it is playable, you can play it straight out of the box, you can even use a number of the old gangs (legacy rules). Just because it doesn't SPECIFICALLY meet YOUR criteria of what YOU want does NOT mean it is virtually unplayable. Its not perfect, it hasn't got everything a lot of us would like to see in the box , but it is playable, like Battle for Macragge, Warhammer Quest, Blood Bowl (all versions) and so on.
Another one who doesn't understand the concept of subjectivity. Just because YOU claim it is playable, doesn't means it is either.
Being playable is obviously subjective. A video game released with only one level which takes only a few minutes to complete is technically ''playable'' but most will consider it unplayable, or at the very least, not worth their time
Right now, Necro is in the same situation. A campaign game which , by the writers admission, really shine when they're is more than 4 players involved, is pretty much unplayable when only two partials gangs are available to play.
And considering that the legacy gangs are a lot less detailed than the 2 gangs re-released, I don't consider them a viable alternatives
I agree with Inquisitor Kallus. The game is fully playable. Right out of the box. There is literally nothing stopping you from playing it. Even if you have an outlander gang I am sure you could proxy it till they get rules. Or if you are unhappy with Legacy rules proxy for Goliath or Escher lists for now. I wasn't able to play Delaque on the original release day. Or Van Saar. Or Cawdor. Did't mean I couldn't play the game though.
For those who have it what are the terrain tiles like in the game, do they have special features? Could it be mixed with a variety of other tiles from other games?
(i.e Space hulk, Deathwatch Overkill, Space Crusade)
Shuma-Gorath wrote: For those who have it what are the terrain tiles like in the game, do they have special features? Could it be mixed with a variety of other tiles from other games?
(i.e Space hulk, Deathwatch Overkill, Space Crusade)
Nice quality, pretty sturdy and double sided with a "Safe" side and a "Hazardous" side. I wasn't expecting to like them all that much but I actually rate them pretty highly. Nice that they are adding an extra pack of them in the future too.
EDIT: I don't own any of the games mentioned above so I wouldn't be able to comment, sorry.
Shuma-Gorath wrote: For those who have it what are the terrain tiles like in the game, do they have special features? Could it be mixed with a variety of other tiles from other games?
(i.e Space hulk, Deathwatch Overkill, Space Crusade)
They absolutely could be used for Necromunda. In fact I'm looking forward to doing so myself.
streetsamurai wrote: Another one who doesn't understand the concept of subjectivity. Just because YOU claim it is playable, doesn't means it is either.
Being playable is obviously subjective. A video game released with only one level which takes only a few minutes to complete is technically ''playable'' but most will consider it unplayable, or at the very least, not worth their time
Right now, Necro is in the same situation. A campaign game which , by the writers admission, really shine when they're is more than 4 players involved, is pretty much unplayable when only two partials gangs are available to play.
And considering that the legacy gangs are a lot less detailed than the 2 gangs re-released, I don't consider them a viable alternatives
It is fact, people have been playing games of it on line, look on youtube. It is playable, absolutely, 100%, categorically playable.
Oh look, a video where people are PLAYING Necromunda. It's not the only one mind, go have a look for yourself....
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Shuma-Gorath wrote: For those who have it what are the terrain tiles like in the game, do they have special features? Could it be mixed with a variety of other tiles from other games?
(i.e Space hulk, Deathwatch Overkill, Space Crusade)
I have them all and although the previous games have a glossy finish I want to use them all at different points. I have two sets of overkill tiles and might get another necro set
Shuma-Gorath wrote:For those who have it what are the terrain tiles like in the game, do they have special features? Could it be mixed with a variety of other tiles from other games?
(i.e Space hulk, Deathwatch Overkill, Space Crusade)
Ruin_In_The_Dark wrote:
Shuma-Gorath wrote: For those who have it what are the terrain tiles like in the game, do they have special features? Could it be mixed with a variety of other tiles from other games?
(i.e Space hulk, Deathwatch Overkill, Space Crusade)
Nice quality, pretty sturdy and double sided with a "Safe" side and a "Hazardous" side. I wasn't expecting to like them all that much but I actually rate them pretty highly. Nice that they are adding an extra pack of them in the future too.
EDIT: I don't own any of the games mentioned above so I wouldn't be able to comment, sorry.
I don't have Space Crusade (lost it too long ago) but I have all the rest of the above, plus the assassins game and the two HH ones. Tiles are of significantly lower quality than any of the above ones. Lighter, non glossy, and the printed paper on one of them has already stated to peel as a whole, which means it didn't get enough glue and I'll need to fix that. I'm mildly disappointed about that, and won't buy the next pack unless I see them first.
Resting One wrote: Is it preposterous to think that GW might profit from selling a Necromunda "Compendium" once a certain number of gangs have released?
Past practices make this....likely.
Sure. And this is a good reason not to buy the game until it's finished.
Basically if my club starts a campaign in a year it'll be a much better game than it is today. There are plenty of other things we could be doing in the meantime.
The trouble with that is that if we don't buy enough of the stuff we won't get the rest, because GW will think the product failed.
streetsamurai wrote: Another one who doesn't understand the concept of subjectivity. Just because YOU claim it is playable, doesn't means it is either.
Being playable is obviously subjective. A video game released with only one level which takes only a few minutes to complete is technically ''playable'' but most will consider it unplayable, or at the very least, not worth their time
Right now, Necro is in the same situation. A campaign game which , by the writers admission, really shine when they're is more than 4 players involved, is pretty much unplayable when only two partials gangs are available to play.
And considering that the legacy gangs are a lot less detailed than the 2 gangs re-released, I don't consider them a viable alternatives
It is fact, people have been playing games of it on line, look on youtube. It is playable, absolutely, 100%, categorically playable.
Oh look, a video where people are PLAYING Necromunda. It's not the only one mind, go have a look for yourself....
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Shuma-Gorath wrote: For those who have it what are the terrain tiles like in the game, do they have special features? Could it be mixed with a variety of other tiles from other games?
(i.e Space hulk, Deathwatch Overkill, Space Crusade)
I have them all and although the previous games have a glossy finish I want to use them all at different points. I have two sets of overkill tiles and might get another necro set
Again, my point went well over your head. Its obvious that the game is technically playable. Hell pretty much any ruleset is technically playable. But presently, the gaming experience necro provides is relly shallow, which makes the campaign (which is the real reason people play necro) pretty much unplayable. Hell, look at how many posters claim theyll wait fpr more content before buying the game
Yeah, use the most negative pool of people as a reference, good going. When do you want your nobel prize?
Meanwhile, in our universe, my local stores have all but sold out.
I've been focusing on Shadespire and have been fine with picking mine up later but I seem to be the minority.
oh yes, better believe the anecdotal evidence of a random whiteknight on the net (anecdotal evidence that can't be proven false) rather than pretty much every forum and fb pages.
Anyway, I hope that necro is indeed a success, cause it has the potential to be the best game ever. My worry is that GW pulls the plug too fast
Luciferian wrote: I just ordered the core box for $75. If it's "technically playable" I'll be fine
Yeah, don't listen to that rubbish he's spouting, though tbh its a shame gang war 1 wasnt in the box and I understand people talking about the day one DLC
streetsamurai wrote: oh yes, better believe the anecdotal evidence of a random whiteknight on the net (anecdotal evidence that can't be proven false) rather than pretty much every forum and fb pages.
Anyway, I hope that necro is indeed a success, cause it has the potential to be the best game ever. My worry is that GW pulls the plug too fast
Yeah, because forums and fb pages are a reliable source of information about sales.
How's that marketing degree working for you?
And by no means am I a "White Knight." When GW messed up with the DG release I said as much here and to them.
If you're gonna blandly throw around labels, at least try and be accurate with them.
And how is 18 months too fast?
Its obvious why they are releasing things the way they are (to drum up support as long as possible while not frontloading the product selection so the game can grow naturally, and they can continue with the crapload of releases AoS and 40K still need) so where does that concern come across as realistic?
It just sounds like whining for the sake of having something to whine about. If you want it to succeed, your definitely not showing it.
streetsamurai wrote: oh yes, better believe the anecdotal evidence of a random whiteknight on the net (anecdotal evidence that can't be proven false) rather than pretty much every forum and fb pages.
Anyway, I hope that necro is indeed a success, cause it has the potential to be the best game ever. My worry is that GW pulls the plug too fast
Yeah, because forums and fb pages are a reliable source of information about sales. How's that marketing degree working for you? And by no means am I a "White Knight." When GW messed up with the DG release I said as much here and to them. If you're gonna blandly throw around labels, at least try and be accurate with them. And how is 18 months too fast? Its obvious why they are releasing things the way they are (to drum up support as long as possible while not frontloading the product selection so the game can grow naturally, and they can continue with the crapload of releases AoS and 40K still need) so where does that concern come across as realistic? It just sounds like whining for the sake of having something to whine about. If you want it to succeed, your definitely not showing it.
Who said anything about them being reliable sales informations?? I never said that the game wasn't selling. ONly said that for a lot of persons, it is still an incomplete game. And that it makes me fear about the future of the game
As for your second question, my marketing degree (Phd) is all done. Thanks for asking. In fact, I teach marketing in an university, would be my pleasure to recommend to you a few book about it, it sure wouldn't hurt.
Yes front loading everything would be bad. But having 4 gangs at the time of the release isn't what I would call front loading, nor is having the complete campagin rules in the main box instead of them being incomplete and in an additional supplement (especially considering necro sucks as a one and done game)
As for the WK comment, don't be arrogant toward poster if you don't want to be treated similarly (and let's not pretend that you don't have an history of vehemently blindly defending GW)
And finally, I think that the positive police is a lot more detrimental to the future growth of the game. If prospectives players are convince by your kind that this is the 'complete' game, they'll quit soon enough, cause the game is not too interesting right now and they'll be dissapointed,. Better for them to know that this is not really a ''finished'' product.
So do we have any "News & Rumours" about Necromunda or is it just countless pages of people complaining about the schedule, how many books they've got to get, the playability. Take all that gak to a discussion forum so people who want to play the game don't have to read through all that nonsense to find a nugget of actual information
Rolsheen wrote: So do we have any "News & Rumours" about Necromunda or is it just countless pages of people complaining about the schedule, how many books they've got to get, the playability. Take all that gak to a discussion forum so people who want to play the game don't have to read through all that nonsense to find a nugget of actual information
Honestly, I don't think we can expect any new info on necro for a while. I guess that once GW2 is about to be release, we'll get some new info, but that is in a few months at best
Rolsheen wrote: So do we have any "News & Rumours" about Necromunda or is it just countless pages of people complaining about the schedule, how many books they've got to get, the playability. Take all that gak to a discussion forum so people who want to play the game don't have to read through all that nonsense to find a nugget of actual information
Rolsheen wrote: So do we have any "News & Rumours" about Necromunda or is it just countless pages of people complaining about the schedule, how many books they've got to get, the playability. Take all that gak to a discussion forum so people who want to play the game don't have to read through all that nonsense to find a nugget of actual information
I think we've got all the news for Necromunda we are going to get for a good little while (basically everything shown at the open day). I don't expect to see a Van Saar preview until February or so. Only thing we might see before GW2 is resin weapon packs for the current couple gangs and maybe a hired gun with PDF rules just lke the Gor halfhorn dude. The reason why the discussion has gone away from news is because many folks have already digested all of it, and now there isn't much to discuss. I really wish more people would post in the gw specialist games subforum though.
A bit off topic, but has anyone received Clint Beastwood? I pre-ordered him weeks ago and they said they would ship it so that we get it at pretty much the same time as Necro, yet, he's stil AWOL
Rolsheen wrote: So do we have any "News & Rumours" about Necromunda or is it just countless pages of people complaining about the schedule, how many books they've got to get, the playability. Take all that gak to a discussion forum so people who want to play the game don't have to read through all that nonsense to find a nugget of actual information
I think we've got all the news for Necromunda we are going to get for a good little while (basically everything shown at the open day). I don't expect to see a Van Saar preview until February or so. Only thing we might see before GW2 is resin weapon packs for the current couple gangs and maybe a hired gun with PDF rules just lke the Gor halfhorn dude. The reason why the discussion has gone away from news is because many folks have already digested all of it, and now there isn't much to discuss. I really wish more people would post in the gw specialist games subforum though.
Maybe if it was in the same group as the other GW subforums on the forum frontpage they might, but evidently we've been banished down "below the fold" along with WHF.
Also - just a reminder folks, reading complaints about complaints is at least as uninteresting to people who want to discuss the game in its entirely rather than just the version from Fluffy Bunny Happy Clappy Land as seeing people with differing opinions evidently is to some of you, so perhaps try a wee taste of your own medicine eh.
Chaos star on one of those tiles intrigues me. That suggests to me that Chaos cults rules should be here sooner rather than later. Otherwise it would be very anachronistic within the wave if it was the only Chaos reference.
Sooooooooooo - back to the actual game in terms of gameplay and so on. Anyone started to build their own gangs up - loadouts etc? How we finding the 2D gameplay. I've been trying to get Mrs Jan into tabletop games for ages to no real avail but Necro has sparked some interest. We're just going through the underhive stuff at the mo as an introduction adn she's really getting into it. Will move on up to Hive city later on. So, so far Necro has proved to be a real win for me to get someone who really wasnt into TT before interested
Januine wrote: Sooooooooooo - back to the actual game in terms of gameplay and so on. Anyone started to build their own gangs up - loadouts etc? How we finding the 2D gameplay. I've been trying to get Mrs Jan into tabletop games for ages to no real avail but Necro has sparked some interest. We're just going through the underhive stuff at the mo as an introduction adn she's really getting into it. Will move on up to Hive city later on. So, so far Necro has proved to be a real win for me to get someone who really wasnt into TT before interested
Sooooooo - not the section to talk about how you are building up gangs, loadouts, 2d terrain, gameplay.
That's a different board section, this is news an rumors
streamdragon wrote: What I'm loving about these tiles is that you can easily see where you can put 3D terrain elements if you want to play the "normal way".
Is putting terrain on a table difficult without tiles to guide you?
Januine wrote: Sooooooooooo - back to the actual game in terms of gameplay and so on. Anyone started to build their own gangs up - loadouts etc? How we finding the 2D gameplay. I've been trying to get Mrs Jan into tabletop games for ages to no real avail but Necro has sparked some interest. We're just going through the underhive stuff at the mo as an introduction adn she's really getting into it. Will move on up to Hive city later on. So, so far Necro has proved to be a real win for me to get someone who really wasnt into TT before interested
Sooooooo - not the section to talk about how you are building up gangs, loadouts, 2d terrain, gameplay.
That's a different board section, this is news an rumors
oh jog on!...you're really calling him out on a bit of actual necromunda discussion as being "off-topic" in a necromunda news and rumours thread, where for the past who knows how many pages, pretty much every second/third post has been little more than masturbatory whining? really mate?
streetsamurai wrote: Just as i was talking about him, mr beastwood was waiting for me when i came back from the gym. Dude is huge, hes dwarfing even the goliaths
I wouldn't mind seeing a comparison picture with Escher if it isn't too much trouble.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Also, a Necromunda weekender, albeit joint with HH kind of suggests they're in this for the long, long haul, no?.
Interesting that they've kind of merged them. I am hoping for a specialist games open day at some point in time as the Heresy weekender is quite pricey.
Also, hoping for some Adeptus Titanicus/Epic love at the show...
Januine wrote: Sooooooooooo - back to the actual game in terms of gameplay and so on. Anyone started to build their own gangs up - loadouts etc? How we finding the 2D gameplay. I've been trying to get Mrs Jan into tabletop games for ages to no real avail but Necro has sparked some interest. We're just going through the underhive stuff at the mo as an introduction adn she's really getting into it. Will move on up to Hive city later on. So, so far Necro has proved to be a real win for me to get someone who really wasnt into TT before interested
Yes. I've built and assembled most of my gangers (left a couple of spares). The game plays pretty well on the Zone Mortalis tiles, which have the advantage of being much quicker to setup/put away. Only played one full campaign game which the Escher managed to win. It was good fun and I like the changes to activation. It was pretty even until one turn saw both the Goliath Champs get gunned down by bolter and plasma pistol fire, leaving the Goliaths with only two active dudes against 5 surviving Escher at which point they bottled out rather than get tabled. However there are a number of issues ranging from poorly worded, unclear rules to Toxin looking distinctly worse for the close combat weapons than the normal versions (yet costs more). I'm also concerned about the slow and predictable rate of experience gain which means it will be some time before gangs really start growing and developing in interesting ways (should be d3 XP per game not just 1 XP in my opinion).
The game is definitely playable though and you can even play a limited campaign, but that is where the problem lies. It's very limited, the Trading Post is very small with few options. Not only are most of the standard weapons missing from the trading post but there are weapons listed in the rules that simply aren't available to buy (bolt pistols, sawn off shotguns, scare grenades, photon grenades, smoke grenades). What this means is that there is very little point to running a campaign at the moment as not only are most of the gangs missing (meaning the campaign will have to restart in 3 months time anyway to fit in the Orlocks and so on) but there aren't even any rarer weapons to try and purchase. Nor is there any point in buying additional gang members at this point as there's no way to know what weapons and gear will be available in the future.
I do think they should have released with a more complete Trading Post, the Escher and Goliath weapon packs and a couple of hired guns. It would have made it much more interesting at the moment with plenty of room still for future growth.
Good grief, must someone be an unpleasant douche every page of this thread by law?! We are simply chatting about stuff not acting as a news source - he asked for clarity and I explained what we were talking about
If there is an even-exclusive model, it probably won't be on general sale at Warhammer World. It will be available at all the events Forge World attend during the year - this Open Day, Warhammer Fest, other Open Days, other gaming events like the UK Games Expo, Salute, Adepticon (I think they go there), etc.
Ah, that's good. Makes it easier to pick up the ones I forgot to get at Salute.
Now, I just need to go and bug them about campaign rules for Gor Half-horn; his rules card says "In campaign play using the rules provided in Gang War, Gor Half-horn can be recruited by a gang in the pre-battle sequence; this secures his services for that one battle", but the pre-battle sequence rules in Gang War just say that the rules for hired guns will be in a future book.
Reminds me of the old boxed sets of floor plans they used to make for 40k, Dredd etc - they are nice and be useful for narrative games in various systems - isn't Necromunda still "guess range" before you fire so grids are useful
Rolsheen wrote: So do we have any "News & Rumours" about Necromunda or is it just countless pages of people complaining about the schedule, how many books they've got to get, the playability. Take all that gak to a discussion forum so people who want to play the game don't have to read through all that nonsense to find a nugget of actual information
Welcome to Dakka. In all honesty, I’m surprised it took sixty odd pages to get to where we are.
Januine wrote: Sooooooooooo - back to the actual game in terms of gameplay and so on. Anyone started to build their own gangs up - loadouts etc? How we finding the 2D gameplay. I've been trying to get Mrs Jan into tabletop games for ages to no real avail but Necro has sparked some interest. We're just going through the underhive stuff at the mo as an introduction adn she's really getting into it. Will move on up to Hive city later on. So, so far Necro has proved to be a real win for me to get someone who really wasnt into TT before interested
Yes. I've built and assembled most of my gangers (left a couple of spares). The game plays pretty well on the Zone Mortalis tiles, which have the advantage of being much quicker to setup/put away. Only played one full campaign game which the Escher managed to win. It was good fun and I like the changes to activation. It was pretty even until one turn saw both the Goliath Champs get gunned down by bolter and plasma pistol fire, leaving the Goliaths with only two active dudes against 5 surviving Escher at which point they bottled out rather than get tabled. However there are a number of issues ranging from poorly worded, unclear rules to Toxin looking distinctly worse for the close combat weapons than the normal versions (yet costs more). I'm also concerned about the slow and predictable rate of experience gain which means it will be some time before gangs really start growing and developing in interesting ways (should be d3 XP per game not just 1 XP in my opinion).
The game is definitely playable though and you can even play a limited campaign, but that is where the problem lies. It's very limited, the Trading Post is very small with few options. Not only are most of the standard weapons missing from the trading post but there are weapons listed in the rules that simply aren't available to buy (bolt pistols, sawn off shotguns, scare grenades, photon grenades, smoke grenades). What this means is that there is very little point to running a campaign at the moment as not only are most of the gangs missing (meaning the campaign will have to restart in 3 months time anyway to fit in the Orlocks and so on) but there aren't even any rarer weapons to try and purchase. Nor is there any point in buying additional gang members at this point as there's no way to know what weapons and gear will be available in the future.
I do think they should have released with a more complete Trading Post, the Escher and Goliath weapon packs and a couple of hired guns. It would have made it much more interesting at the moment with plenty of room still for future growth.
Just to bootstrap on relevant post. At the moment, Newmunda campaign feels even more out of place than SW:A campaign did. It'll be no sooner than GW3 that playing actual campaign will add to the game, at least from Oldmunda player perspective. Which is a bummer for me personally, as I play more in winter months than in summer months... 2D version feels more like playing on "I don't yet have enough 3D terrain" table than an actually different and exciting way to play, at least for me. But there are some interesting changes/additions outside of alternating activations (which, BTW, I'm not a huge fan of), namely Knockback weapon trait, new Bottle Tests mechanics, updating Fall Damage rules for 5" Sector Mechanicus levels and Booby Traps. My group decided, that for the time being we will add those features to Oldmunda and wait untill "fully grown" and complete Newmunda is released.
Oh. That looks like one big goat man. Thanks for the picture.
I'm pretty sure it's an optical illusion and the minis at the front of the picture are on a higher glass shelf. So he looks huge. But he's regular sized, not Doombull sized?
He's on the same 32mm base as the Goliaths. The beastman, the painted Scum on the left and the three unpainted scum on the right are all on the top shelf.
Trafalgar Law wrote: I'm also concerned about the slow and predictable rate of experience gain which means it will be some time before gangs really start growing and developing in interesting ways (should be d3 XP per game not just 1 XP in my opinion).
The 1XP per scenario is the ‘participation’ prize. If you want extra XP you need to be taking dudes OoA, preferably champions and leaders. Also don’t forget to take the Mentor skill on someone so you can double that too.
ahh...yeah the glass shelves were messing with my perception of goatman's size too...to help eliminate a bit of confusion, I did some quick'n'dirty mspaint blacking out on that image, to show just the stuff on that shelf....so yeah, he's not as huge as I first thought when I saw that pic, but he still looks pretty beefy
Now, I just need to go and bug them about campaign rules for Gor Half-horn; his rules card says "In campaign play using the rules provided in Gang War, Gor Half-horn can be recruited by a gang in the pre-battle sequence; this secures his services for that one battle", but the pre-battle sequence rules in Gang War just say that the rules for hired guns will be in a future book.
FFS really?
This is turning into a Choose your own adventure book split over multiple books.
Gor is a bit taller than a Goliath, but he is stepping onto a pipe which elevates him, plus he has this adorable kiss-curl mohawk thing going on which adds to his height. He is also stretching his arms out which combined with the chainsword gives him a pretty large silhouette, but his actual features don't appear out of scale, he is just in one of those action poses. Lovely model but now I actually have him I am not so keen on how his backpack attaches, there is this weird and highly visible plug linking his pack to his armour. Looks a bit odd to me but not sure how to conceal it. I may try to clip it off or may try and make some sort of bedroll to cover it up.
Oh. That looks like one big goat man. Thanks for the picture.
I'm pretty sure it's an optical illusion and the minis at the front of the picture are on a higher glass shelf. So he looks huge. But he's regular sized, not Doombull sized?
Yeah, the guys "around" him are clearly on the shelf below, but he's on the same 32mm base as the Goliaths but without the squat build.
I mean, I'm not saying he's huge or overdone or anything. Just wanted to know how he compared to Fantasy Beastmen, since this is really the first new Beastman we got in what, a decade?
Trafalgar Law wrote: I'm also concerned about the slow and predictable rate of experience gain which means it will be some time before gangs really start growing and developing in interesting ways (should be d3 XP per game not just 1 XP in my opinion).
The 1XP per scenario is the ‘participation’ prize. If you want extra XP you need to be taking dudes OoA, preferably champions and leaders. Also don’t forget to take the Mentor skill on someone so you can double that too.
I'm aware of that, still feels a bit low to me and will require a lot of games to level up a Juve for example. N.b. you only get the xp for taking someone one out of action not seriously wounding them. This is fine if you're doing the damage in CC but not so great if you're shooting. E.g. after my first game my Leader was on 4 xp, 1 for taking part, 1 for winning and 2 for gunning down the Goliath leader. The rest of the gang was on 1 xp with two gangers on 2 xp for taking down a couple of Goliaths. There were two more Goliaths seriously injured when they bottled out but that gained me nothing. This was a very successful battle and I felt like I gained very little xp overall. In the old Necromunda my leader would definitely have gained an advancement as would one of my Champions and probably the two gangers as well (there were other flesh wounds dealt that would have gained +5 xp also). As the Goliaths only managed to splat my Juve in CC (there were 2 more girls lying around groaning) only one of their gangers managed to get an extra point of xp.
At the moment it feels like the 'growing your gang' and getting improved skills and stats which was always the most interesting part of Necromunda for me is going to be a very slow affair.
Mentor is a good suggestion though.
Ashitaka wrote: How are the pre-built gangs in the box? Should I build my models to match those?
I guess since it'll be a while before more weapons come out that I might as well?
Thanks
I'd suggest making your own gang. It's more fun and the pre-made gangs are a bit underwhelming.
I don't think slowed progression is necessarily a bad thing.
One of my criticisms of Necromunda is that it tended to reward early success, even when that was achieved through sheer luck.
The rate starting Gangs levelled up could be staggering. Couple of flukey rolls on the advancement table, and suddenly you're noticeably harder than other gangs after just a game or two. And barring truly disastrous games, it was hard to lose that top dog position.
One of my criticisms of Necromunda is that it tended to reward early success, even when that was achieved through sheer luck.
The rate starting Gangs levelled up could be staggering. Couple of flukey rolls on the advancement table, and suddenly you're noticeably harder than other gangs after just a game or two. And barring truly disastrous games, it was hard to lose that top dog position.
It probably was too fast in the old game. I feel it's gone too far the other way though now.
Oh. That looks like one big goat man. Thanks for the picture.
I'm pretty sure it's an optical illusion and the minis at the front of the picture are on a higher glass shelf. So he looks huge. But he's regular sized, not Doombull sized?
Yeah, the guys "around" him are clearly on the shelf below, but he's on the same 32mm base as the Goliaths but without the squat build.
I mean, I'm not saying he's huge or overdone or anything. Just wanted to know how he compared to Fantasy Beastmen, since this is really the first new Beastman we got in what, a decade?
Oh. That looks like one big goat man. Thanks for the picture.
I'm pretty sure it's an optical illusion and the minis at the front of the picture are on a higher glass shelf. So he looks huge. But he's regular sized, not Doombull sized?
Yeah, the guys "around" him are clearly on the shelf below, but he's on the same 32mm base as the Goliaths but without the squat build.
I mean, I'm not saying he's huge or overdone or anything. Just wanted to know how he compared to Fantasy Beastmen, since this is really the first new Beastman we got in what, a decade?
One of my criticisms of Necromunda is that it tended to reward early success, even when that was achieved through sheer luck.
The rate starting Gangs levelled up could be staggering. Couple of flukey rolls on the advancement table, and suddenly you're noticeably harder than other gangs after just a game or two. And barring truly disastrous games, it was hard to lose that top dog position.
With no underdog bonus to earnings or experience, I feel like an early advantage will be even more sustainable.
streetsamurai wrote: Started to build my gangers. 1 unique sprue per gang is not enough. They really should have put a second one in there
We're lucky to get specialist games back, we're lucky to get core gangs in plastic. Everyone would like to see more but this way its much more viable for them economically
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Chopstick wrote: I hoped this game do well enough for GW to consider doing a plastic upgrade kit, with more hair and weapons.
Right now Goliath only have 4 unique mohawk. I'm thinking about making a custom mohawk, should be easy enough.
Id greatly prefer to see plastic upgrade kits but I heard they will be resin. If so I might pass on them
BrookM wrote: Downside to doing the upgrade sprues in plastic would be an even longer waiting period than we have now.
If theyd already planned them along with the necromunda gang sprues then no. If they saw it as an opportunity only reently then yes. The problems with resin upgrade packs will be keeping up with potential high demand, as plastic machines can just be left running churning out sprues day and night. The other is QC
Thing is though, GW's schedule for cranking out plastic sprues is quite booked up as it is, so tossing in last minute upgrades is impossible for them.
Sadly we are stuck with resin upgrade kits, which are again sadly victim of iffy casting quality, but at least FW did a massive upgrade on their customer support services, emails sent to them are actually replied to now and replacement parts are sent out in a timely fashion, unlike back then.
streetsamurai wrote: Started to build my gangers. 1 unique sprue per gang is not enough. They really should have put a second one in there
We're lucky to get specialist games back, we're lucky to get core gangs in plastic. Everyone would like to see more but this way its much more viable for them economically
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Chopstick wrote: I hoped this game do well enough for GW to consider doing a plastic upgrade kit, with more hair and weapons.
Right now Goliath only have 4 unique mohawk. I'm thinking about making a custom mohawk, should be easy enough.
Id greatly prefer to see plastic upgrade kits but I heard they will be resin. If so I might pass on them
Not necessarly. If that extra sprue would have brought in more sales than it cost (or that an extra sprue from another kit would), it would have been better for them economically.
It is a safer way for them, but not necessarly a better one
Went digging through my hall closet to find unbuilt Necromunda things (my Cawdor).
Located the unbuilt Pitslave Gang, the remaining not-Dalaques, Brakar the Avenger, Karl Jericho and Scabbs still in the blister and a Scum blister from 1995!
Guess I better get building for our test of the new game next weekend.
I went digging in my old stuff, and found all the unassembled Brats, Bounty Hunters and Arbites from Confrontation. Now, where did I put the baggie of plastic arms...
That needle rifle in the art does look pretty cool. Not sure how effective it will be on the tabletop but...options are nice.
I do hope Goliaths get resin arms for autoguns and a heavy stubber though. Because they are doing these in resin they can probably produce them a lot quicker than plastics. But look at it this way...we have it a lot better than chaos dwarf fans, their entire range is in resin at the moment. I'll take plastics with limited options over an expensive full resin range any day.
Hoping for more plasma for the Escher myself, though a heavy stubber would also be nice, we need more weaponry that can spray lead without much discretion.
Not a fan of Plasma in newmunda. Plasma Pistol i get it, it never run out of ammo in melee. Plasma for shooting, not really. Especially the "Click" card straight up disable the gun.
Even with an ammo cache, it never worth try to reload the gun with no bonus unlike non-scarce weapon.
Upcoming house Orlock is the house of Bullets and dakka
Are you referring to new pistol in melee rule? or something else that I missed, because I knew about the new rule. Wasn't the case for Plasma pistol because it has better profile, even at 1 attack it still obliterate most target.
streamdragon wrote: What I'm loving about these tiles is that you can easily see where you can put 3D terrain elements if you want to play the "normal way".
Is putting terrain on a table difficult without tiles to guide you?
Not at all, but I've been playing these games for over two decades now. For newer players, or players who don't want to build/buy a gaming table, the tiles can serve as a modular game board that they can use as a base for building upwards. Plus they look pretty good, so there's that too.
lord_blackfang wrote: My plan is to get a hot wire cutter (30 quid) and make the walls (also corresponding to the tiles) from 2" foam (more or less free).
This is an idea our group had discussed.
If you do this, please post pictures.
JohnnyHell wrote: If you want to make straight walls skip the hot wire cutter and just use a snapoff blade knife carefully. A cutter will wiggle around.
There are table saw style hot wire setups with guide rails and stuff.
