Heh, I went back to check and they have removed some of the M2E crews from the site. But M2E December is 27, M2E Ramos is 30.50 and M3E Marcus is 37.50. But if there isn't an anticipated (and substantial) content change, nor a price change on the Wyrd side, I will hold fire for now and see what other retailers offer
spiralingcadaver wrote: The individual model availability is nice. Still feel pretty burnt by the number of cross-faction crews, masters, and master-keyworded models that have been removed, though. Of my 4 main crews only one wasn't hit hard, and it was my least-played.
I understand that, but I'm glad Wyrd are willing to do that to move the story forward. It would suck if you own those masters, though.
Nah, feth their dumb little fluff tea party. I went from 4 neverborn masters to one. If I wanted a story, I'd play an RPG (and I do). Not to mention forced railroad metaplots are so 90's (what's up White Wolf). Moreover, they HAVE a product for this... story encounter boxes. There's zero good reason to crap away my investment in money/time in painting.Not to mention those crews arent really even balanced and won't have further releases.
Wargames are a GAME first. If they wanted to limit dead masters in a special one-off tournament, whatever. But you can already run into situations with unique characters on both sides in a game, so the fanfic crowd should be able to suck up a "dead" master being in their tournament/release cycle.
Yeah, it isn't art: it's just a game with some pulpy background and a continuous story. If you want story to progress and to kill characters or whatever, that's fine. Either ignore story and keep your characters, or make characters types, so Ramos can be a Hoffman proxy or Lilith can be a Nekima proxy. I think it's absurd how many collections that are basically independent armies in function and mechanic were dissolved in this edition. For all the problem that Leveticus obviously was, I've seen so many collections basically based around his hiring options, for instance.
It's totally fine to kill weird niche combos or exploits whatever, but the way they shuffled things ignores that people have collections, and they don't necessarily sprawl all the factions. It feels like they don't understand how non-superfans interact with their game. I'm a regular player with a few favorite masters and a number of factions, but and I still felt like my collection was gutted; playing only one faction must be even nastier.
I feel like Wyrd have been making a lot of well Wyrd decisions in the last 2-3 years. I don't know why but everything they've done in terms of The Other Side, the changes to 3rd Edition Malifaux it all feels like ill-thought-out.
If the price point The Outpost is quoting is reflective of the new price point for Malifaux it will be a very simple pass for me.
Siygess wrote: Heh, I went back to check and they have removed some of the M2E crews from the site. But M2E December is 27, M2E Ramos is 30.50 and M3E Marcus is 37.50. But if there isn't an anticipated (and substantial) content change, nor a price change on the Wyrd side, I will hold fire for now and see what other retailers offer
Some of those are likely discounted given they don't line up with the MSRP. M2E Marcus and Ramos both normally go for the same $50 being advertised for the M3E Marcus set. I believe the Marcus set is changing though, as a crew of resculpts were shown back at GenCon.
Again, it looks like at least from Wyrd's MSRPs, the things going up are the things that are currently below average, which comes down to the old Ten Thunders crews from M1E (that often went for $40) and the first run of M2E masters that went for $45. Even these aren't seeing price hikes in line with the Outpost, unless the difference is simply that they're back closer to MSRP because they're "new" SKUs where the old ones have seen bigger discounts because they've been sitting in the warehouse for 5-6 years.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
spiralingcadaver wrote: Yeah, it isn't art: it's just a game with some pulpy background and a continuous story. If you want story to progress and to kill characters or whatever, that's fine. Either ignore story and keep your characters, or make characters types, so Ramos can be a Hoffman proxy or Lilith can be a Nekima proxy. I think it's absurd how many collections that are basically independent armies in function and mechanic were dissolved in this edition. For all the problem that Leveticus obviously was, I've seen so many collections basically based around his hiring options, for instance.
It's totally fine to kill weird niche combos or exploits whatever, but the way they shuffled things ignores that people have collections, and they don't necessarily sprawl all the factions. It feels like they don't understand how non-superfans interact with their game. I'm a regular player with a few favorite masters and a number of factions, but and I still felt like my collection was gutted; playing only one faction must be even nastier.
Honestly, most of the problems they created for themselves are a result of forcing people's collections to sprawl all the factions and any one master in 2E required a factions worth of models since you were buying boxes of 3+ figures for one thing. I get being mad (particularly over the Neverborn thing, cause that's... weird) but it really really had to happen and they've made it FAR easier for people to fix their collections now than it required to even attempt to build them in the past. I definitely have some orphaned models, but realistically I already did in things like the 2nd/3rd minion from boxes I had no use for.
LunarSol wrote: Honestly, most of the problems they created for themselves are a result of forcing people's collections to sprawl all the factions and any one master in 2E required a factions worth of models since you were buying boxes of 3+ figures for one thing. I get being mad (particularly over the Neverborn thing, cause that's... weird) but it really really had to happen and they've made it FAR easier for people to fix their collections now than it required to even attempt to build them in the past. I definitely have some orphaned models, but realistically I already did in things like the 2nd/3rd minion from boxes I had no use for.
IMHO, there's no valid justification based on arguments of practicality for...
-removing some dual faction master sets while making other ones dual faction
-removing masters when adding others, rather than redesigning the first
-scrambling models around to new factions
-removing models which were sold for a whole edition as part of a master's schtick
I didn't have any masters removed, but, sure, being specific, my Tara list lost something like 3/4 of its options. My collection of something like 25-30 models, which consisted of
-her starter crew
-her signature Death Marshals, which have been part of her fluff since before she had rules
-her summon keyword models, some of which were also specifically named as hireable in her crew when playing as one faction, and were all native to one of her factions
-4 non-themed models with bury interactions, which were all native to one of her factions
now consists of:
-her starter crew
-1 model that now has her keyword
-1 non-themed model with bury interactions
So, no, I don't feel like when all of her rules and theme were built around undead/summons and her beasties, and the better way to play her was as undead/summon instead of a weak and poorly controllable gimmick, losing all of her undead options is made up for by having more flexibility buying more toys for my hobbled collection.
Edit: If they actually cared about players' collections and wanted to reduce hers to a single one, shifting her one model outside her crew to ressers and dropping outcasts would have been easy, and I think that such practical decisions as that might have suggested they actually believed that these decisions were made out of necessity to clean up the game. I think that at best their shifts represent a pomposity about their game as art rather than a game, and at worst represents pretty cynical marketing choices intended to get players to restructure their collections, given some of the weird decisions to shuffle models.
spiralingcadaver wrote: So, no, I don't feel like when all of her rules and theme were built around undead/summons and her beasties, and the better way to play her was as undead/summon instead of a weak and poorly controllable gimmick, losing all of her undead options is made up for by having more flexibility buying more toys for my hobbled collection.
It's a bit of a slap to be told that some of us were playing our masters 'wrong' and this is the way to do it right so now you have to, please and thank you. While on one hand I do commend reining in the 'soup' qualities of MFX and rewarding thematic play over powergaming, it's not so great when that theme changes and/or loses a lot of its flexibility.
100% agree on updating all existing masters and then adding in the new ones. Maybe there's SKU reasons for retiring some masters now (presumably for rerelease later on) or something, but it's still lame. I also suspect that Wyrd will continue to dial back their stance on the Dead Man's Hand masters due to backlash - the existence of the DMH rules points to their ambivalence on the decision.
I've also been burned by the new limits placed on minions, some of my favorite crews spammed mediocre minions - like my 8 Tanuki Brewmaster list I was building towards the end of M2E - or used like 4 of a crappy minion because it's what I had. Or like 2 of a thing in the case of my Mei Feng, who now has a spare mechanical porkchop that I have pretty much zero use for since they're now enforcers.
Tara’s such a strange case. She wasn’t even supposed to be a resser but the unwillingness to put a foot down on Levi left ressers down a master and scrambling to fit in. The latest redesign is like what? Her 5th in as many years? She’s not been what I’d call a consistent character and one I really feel suffered from m2es cross hiring bloat.
As for masters changing or losing factions I’m finding it kind of irrelevant. They’re so siloed now that faction is pretty irrelevant. I personally sold off several crews simply because I don’t need the whole faction to run a master I like and was able to just keep the master I like to play on their own. Ramos being a prime example despite being “dead”.
That's great that changing factions was irrelevant to you; it wasn't to how I played, and I probably won't continue to this edition because of it. Honestly, it's not even really anger, it's just demoralizing to work on a compact collection and then, as Salvage said, be told I was doing it wrong. I don't really want to buy more models and learn more rules when it feels like there's the looming threat that, again, I'm doing it wrong. It's a lot of commitment to possibly be punished for what felt like playing the game as intended.
The desire for a compact collection is exactly why I’m happy with the change. M2e made it challenging to collect without a lot of extra. M3e is selling me a game where I can pick up a master and buy stuff for that master without really having to buy much extra and it almost ever even lets me buy duplicates. That’s pretty ideal to me and I’m pretty happy to cut down to the stuff that I need for my favorite handful of masters rather than worry about how much faction wide box sets I need.
It's great that yours worked out, but, seriously, they pushed it too far. They already had the keyword system that already defined what was within a master's scope. There were some weird outliers, but most masters had 1-2 keywords.
Here: Make Tara and her guys a Resser, slap "obliteration" or whatever the keyword is on basic Death Marshals, call it done. You can take most of her old thematic hiring options at the out-of-theme tax, while mostly maintaining a single theme. I don't have any problem with the conceptual choices Wyrd made, but the execution is really wanting.
I totally get that it worked out for you and that you're happy about that; it didn't for a number of us, nor does your happiness prove that the transition was graceful. The problems of 2e were Wyrd's problems, but, the way they "solved" them in 3e just made them 2e players' problems. And again, there are problematic changes they made that seemingly respond to no problem at all, and are prioritizing their taste over the longevity of their customers' purchases.
I'm not saying I'm unaffected, just that I find the changes easy to adapt to. This is mostly because M3E's constraints are in line with the way M2E is sold. Most of what I lost were things where I bought a box for half its contents and that was pretty easy to turn into boxes where I needed it all. That's a process they're making even easier by bundling it all together. I'm not even someone who normally makes model deals. Selling armies to pay for armies really isn't my thing; but M3E's clean breaks along existing SKU lines has made it pretty easy to adapt.
I'll toss out that what they're doing with limited crews is how I was led to believe M2E would work when I started, only to discover you needed breadth in a faction to be competitive, and across factions if you were playing Ressers / the increasing number of summoners in the game. Which was a real turnoff, as I signed on for a highly thematic game with cool models to find myself playing a rather gamey system that demanded a significant investment in overly-complex plastic kits.
The irony is that at this point I have a fairly large collection, which I'm discovering is not actually that useful any more
It will be interesting to see whether or not Wyrd has pooped the bed with this one, or even that there are so few people left that no one cares that the bed is FOS. There was a mass exodous seemingly on account of balance a good while back. So, I suppose restoring some amount of balance is one of their highest priorities. We shall see if they succeded, and if the sacrifices they needed to make to achieve balance end up pissing people off.
From what I have seen, masters play differently, which certainly could make people upset. If someone wanted to play an alpha strike type thing, or a scheme runner type thing, and then found that their old master was no longer good at it, that could certainly turn people off to say the least.
I enjoy new mechanics and types of things, so I am looking forward to breaking out some of my old minis and giving the new edition a try.
From what I have seen, masters play differently, which certainly could make people upset. If someone wanted to play an alpha strike type thing, or a scheme runner type thing, and then found that their old master was no longer good at it, that could certainly turn people off to say the least.
I enjoy new mechanics and types of things, so I am looking forward to breaking out some of my old minis and giving the new edition a try.
Some people are always going to react badly to change. At least locally though, the game went from borderline unplayed to one of our biggest communities over the course of the beta. The focus on clearly defined playstyles and consistent rules across crews has opened it up in a way I've not seen since MK2 Warmachine.
spiralingcadaver wrote:IMHO, there's no valid justification based on arguments of practicality for...
That makes it sound like you will insist on being negative about this regardless of what anyone says.
Wyrd is doing a big overhaul and changing things that were difficult to balance or made the game worse (as far as they can tell anyway).
This may lead to things changing and holding on to how things played in M2E is not advised.
The new prices on the outpost website are due to the new boxes having more in them. Supposedly wyrd have told the outpost that there will be more mini's in the sets. That's why the prices have went up.
Also if you pre order a 3rd edition set you get the rulebook free
At least in USD, the prices have only gone up on the $45 sets. They've simply all been normalized to $50. The $50 sets remain $50 even for ones that have seemingly gotten new/additional models.
Motograter wrote: Also if you pre order a 3rd edition set you get the rulebook free
A physical copy of the rulebook free? I must have missed this. Where did you read this? I'm totally on board especially if there are free LtdEd models in addition.
spiralingcadaver wrote:IMHO, there's no valid justification based on arguments of practicality for...
That makes it sound like you will insist on being negative about this regardless of what anyone says.
Wyrd is doing a big overhaul and changing things that were difficult to balance or made the game worse (as far as they can tell anyway).
This may lead to things changing and holding on to how things played in M2E is not advised.
No, I think there are a lot of perfectly fine choices they've made. I think dropping the upgrade system was good. I don't really care about multiple masters. I think that dropping mercs was unfortunate but probably safer. I think that pushing thematic crews is a good move.
But, I think that, like you quoted, there's no justification for the way they shuffled what amounts to players' collections. Again, if they'd made signs that it was based on some sort of extreme restriction of the game/their products/etc., then I might have bought it. But, the way they're going about it seems based on their vision of their game, and preferences about narrative progression.
In an environment where they're able to rebuild model stats from scratch (i.e. not an x.5 edition or like a lot of 40k's rolling editions), where they're adding new pieces, where they're emphasizing theme, and where the game is an update from the previous one, I think the only reasonable starting place is to build on existing model themes, see what roles those fill in the themes, and decide how to make that work. Once you've fixed everything, then start working in your additions.
I think that Wyrd consistently shows a disregard to fans when not pursuing mechanics and themes they've emphasized:
Another example would be the avatar system, which were marketed as centerpiece models, then became campaign power ups, and finally those "models", i.e. display base inserts, were dropped before production began.
Similarly, those two Illuminated enforcers got special Neverborn-emphasized variant models something like a year before they were kicked out of the faction.
It's like they're using Malifaux as their personal sandbox. If they were video game generations or whatever, I'd have no problem, but I'm becoming more certain, talking through this, that I don't trust them to create a stable game that respects that their customers have budgets and lives outside their product, so I'm becoming increasingly disinterested in paying to keep up.
Has anyone picked up the scenery for the Malfaux game? I have seen a number of kits, and would really like to get some, but thought I'd ask before I do.
Absolutionis wrote: At least in USD, the prices have only gone up on the $45 sets. They've simply all been normalized to $50. The $50 sets remain $50 even for ones that have seemingly gotten new/additional models.
Motograter wrote: Also if you pre order a 3rd edition set you get the rulebook free
A physical copy of the rulebook free? I must have missed this. Where did you read this? I'm totally on board especially if there are free LtdEd models in addition.
On the outposts Facebook page is where the offer was.
Not sure if anyone's doing free limited edition models anywhere though
Hi - I've been out of the loop on Malifaux for a while.
I'd appreciate it if someone could let me know where I stand in the new 3rd edition with the Masters I play:
Lilith
Collodi
Zoraida (mostly only played her with Collodi back when he was a henchman)
Karai
McMorning
Leviticus
Thanks!
(our group got pretty heavily disillusioned with them after the crappy KS they ran for the RPG.)
Collodi and Lilith both got written out of the game. They have legacy rules, where they're not exactly part of the faction and aren't tournament legal. Some people speculate that the masters in this place ("Dead Man's Hand") will eventually reappear as regular pieces; I'm not sure what this is based on other than hope.
IDK about Zoraida, don't think she changed much.
McMourning doesn't play Guild anymore.
Summoning has been nerfed/restricted hard, so Kirai from what I've heard plays very differently (a friend in the alpha said she played so differently he wasn't interested anymore).
I don't know about Leveticus other than that he's lost out of faction hiring options (like most broad keyword masters).
Pretty much every master is just focused down to models in their crew box and built around them. For example Levi is all about Abominations, Ashes & Dust, etc but out of faction he’s limited to necropunks.
Kirai has probably changed the least thematically. Still a spirit summoner. Her big limit is that she takes damage to keep her summons in play and needs to watch how many she has out.
Collodi and Lilith are dead but basically work as Neverborn options still.
Zoraida hasn’t changed much. Neither has McMourning. He doesn’t work in Guild anymore but honestly he didn’t “work” in Guild in m2e either.
They are ramping up the game, how did you get the information that the game is dead? Wyrd is trying to get into the large scale game racket, if you haven't been keeping up with information. "The Other Side", The expansions for the factions, new books ALA Codex for factions, the new factions from Europe, and "The Other Side"....
My take on it, is that the game is growing, but the long range, short range, and long term planning is for crap. I am not seeing a solid Project Management angle in their way of doing business, as they cut off their noses to spite their face.
It was said elsewhere in this thread that the game expansion is haphazard, and like it is being done in a vacuum, as a legitimately pretty decent game is being bogged down by willy-lily faction creep, over powered characters, and the rest of the standard issue loser stuff that someone wants to pull out of their fourth point of contact just to get some quick sales figures to make the backers and investors happy.
The game is in it's what, supposed 3rd iteration, so THAT doesn't do it any favors, but the extended universe is spot on that you can actually have some fun with it, if you scale back all of that crazy stuff from intermediate 2d edition, expanded into the RPG line, and then onward into the 3rd edition.
The changes are honestly nothing to write home about, and the excuses by now are really wearing thin as to the how's and why's that Wyrd can't continue development outside of a vacuum. Not to mention the !@#$ hot way in which these guys treat paying customers, and people who purchase their products....
Some of us never forgot how we were treated with the craptastic Crap-Starter they pulled for the RPG.... The old saying holds true, if it ain't broke, don't overpower it and "fix" it.
WYRD, you want advice- Focus on Cultivating the following that you lost from 1st to 3rd, and in between. Get out of your protective zone and go out into the word of real gamers and actually see how bad you crapped on your former winning game... You definatly lost beaucoup good will and players, and if you don't stop shucking and jiving, and acting like your poop don't stink- you are never going to recover.
Miniature Market apparently is being run by people who don't want to bother repackaging their M2E stock with the necessary replacement components that Wyrd has already announced they're providing to retailers.
I don't really know much about the game, it has never interested me. I just saw the sale, and figured I'd post.
From a non player perspective, and from what I've seen with other games, when MM runs discounts across a whole range, including the new stuff(terrain, "Other Side", etc.), it doesn't bode well for the health of the game. Opinions may vary, and I hope the game succeeds with the new edition.
They're halving the number of SKU's and it looks like Mini Market is offering the biggest discount on the ones which are being bundled together. For example, the effigies and emissaries are packaged together going forward as Mysterious Fate, Brutal Fate, etc. Moreover, the MSRP dropped on those from $56 for both units to $40 for both. It makes no sense to hold onto a single boxed emissary for $45 when the newer version is cheaper and has another model.
For the most part, other than the deeper discounts on the august/september re-releases, the prices are about what gamenerdz has every day.
The game is in it's what, supposed 3rd iteration, so THAT doesn't do it any favors, but the extended universe is spot on that you can actually have some fun with it, if you scale back all of that crazy stuff from intermediate 2d edition, expanded into the RPG line, and then onward into the 3rd edition.
You say this like its a 6th edition situation. M2E has been around since 2013, which is a pretty standard, even rather lengthy 6 year gap.
I say that exactly like a 6th edition situation, because that is exactly what it is. I'm, talking a whole game shop that was playing the game consistently, buying figs and having a campaign type situation to one where it has been abandoned, and the left over figs are gathering dust on my game establishments rack. They even came out with a Other side set, and it doesn't even get a look. WHY? Because of the drastic changes. BEFORE. The game is unplayable, NOW.
So your area didn’t transition to m2e? Is that the issue? I mean, it happens but it’s not like the games been dead for 6 years. By all accounts m2e has been fairly successful. It might not have kept your locals but it’s certainly not been a failure. It had a lengthy run but was in need of a revamp like any system.
The Other Side is a harder sell. I hear good things but it’s competing in a harder market with less room for competition. I don’t see the point of raging about it though. It’s young and will find a following a die off. It’s far from a bad attempt at cracking into larger scale games though. Just if anything really poorly timed.
Wyrd died with M2E here as well. Probably just because people don’t like change.
Miniaturemarket is local for me, the guys running it do a great job of looking for deals and passing them on. I’m sure they approached Wyrd and offered to take the slow moving stock off their hands for a good price which helps them reinvest the money which is taking up warehouse space and costing rent. I don’t see this as the dumpster fire sales of confrontation and sedition wars.
Theophony wrote: Wyrd died with M2E here as well. Probably just because people don’t like change.
Definitely happens. Honestly I think longer editions might make it worse as around year 5 the games seem to struggle to pull in new or casual players and start to revolve around a hardcore fanbase that is often too invested to respond to major changes well.
The M3E release announcement has generated some excitement here, now we know what we're looking at. I had my first game of M3e last night and had a blast, and already have a shopping list fo what I need to expand my Sonnia crew.
Theophony wrote: Wyrd died with M2E here as well. Probably just because people don’t like change.
Definitely happens. Honestly I think longer editions might make it worse as around year 5 the games seem to struggle to pull in new or casual players and start to revolve around a hardcore fanbase that is often too invested to respond to major changes well.
Pretty much this. The change was too fast, and too drastic, especially when the Avatars came to play. then it became the usual arms race with a skirmish game. The story transition wasn't thought through other then push lickies and chewies for the sake of funding that RPG, then they ignored the RPG... Combine that with the ill will generation with the RPG fiasco, and they lost more then they realized locally.
Pretty much this. The change was too fast, and too drastic, especially when the Avatars came to play. then it became the usual arms race with a skirmish game. The story transition wasn't thought through other then push lickies and chewies for the sake of funding that RPG, then they ignored the RPG... Combine that with the ill will generation with the RPG fiasco, and they lost more then they realized locally.
What went wrong with RPG?
Not (necessarily) disagreeing, I actually do't know.
LunarSol wrote: At least locally though, the game went from borderline unplayed to one of our biggest communities over the course of the beta. The focus on clearly defined playstyles and consistent rules across crews has opened it up in a way I've not seen since MK2 Warmachine.
Mmmmmmmm, MK2 Warmachine . You are speaking my language (that period was my favorite gaming experience ever, of any system!). Just wish I had more time to take advantage of this
But M3E really does look to be pushing all my buttons... very interested in checking it out!
Pretty much this. The change was too fast, and too drastic, especially when the Avatars came to play. then it became the usual arms race with a skirmish game. The story transition wasn't thought through other then push lickies and chewies for the sake of funding that RPG, then they ignored the RPG... Combine that with the ill will generation with the RPG fiasco, and they lost more then they realized locally.
What went wrong with RPG?
Not (necessarily) disagreeing, I actually do't know.
It went from one of the most anticipated RPG's to one of the most despised over the course of the project. Lost control of the project halfway through, mismanaged on the most basic level, and then when it came out, it was a work in progress.
To leave it on a high note-
One thing I can say that was one of the best sets to come out of the RPG/ tabletop was the make your own figure range. Absolutely stunning sculpts. The Male and the Female sets are both great.
I honestly want to give 3d edition a chance, based on the mass of stuff I have for this game. Then I saw some of that plastic scenery the other day, and I honestly got a bug for the game back for that alone.
It went from one of the most anticipated RPG's to one of the most despised over the course of the project. Lost control of the project halfway through, mismanaged on the most basic level, and then when it came out, it was a work in progress.
To leave it on a high note-
One thing I can say that was one of the best sets to come out of the RPG/ tabletop was the make your own figure range.
IOW, they did a lesser Soda Pop / Ninja Division, where the business / managerial side didn't do a good job of herding & wrangling the artistic / creative talent; however, they did deliver at some level.
The lesson here is that Wyrd should recognize that they have more of a creative / artistic focus, and should therefore shift to a somewhat different model, where they deliver more against real world deadlines than unattainable "perfection". To that end, a simpler rules system is preferable, because people are really in it for the models, anyways! Fewer levers and fewer moving parts means fewer things can break.
Wyrd's update this week says that shipping embargoes / trade wars / associated Trump ****ery has delayed some future deliveries of M3e stock, but not the initial rulebooks and factions decks.
Also the bad Things Happen app is going to be discontinued. It will be replaced later this year by a new free M3E app.
What’s going on with The Other Side? The manual and starter boxes (specifically gibbering hordes and burning man) seem impossible to find, and it seems like Miniature Market doesn't even carry a lot of the range anymore. Is the game dead on arrival or something? I was really interested in it, but I wasn’t in a hurry, but now it seems to be gone.
That news made me quite sad. I was really looking forward to having some new Malifaux goodies waiting for me when I get home.
Now I'm just going to have to wait impatiently... more.
The Other Side stuff I slowly picked up bit by bit off of eBay. Nobody else seems to carry it and the stuff I've got so far has been way below MSRP.
Good for me, sad for the game.
I'd really like to see some of the stuff they hinted at in the rulebook too.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: That news made me quite sad. I was really looking forward to having some new Malifaux goodies waiting for me when I get home.
Apparently the models are also not delayed. So far I'm just reading that it's the fluff books.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: That news made me quite sad. I was really looking forward to having some new Malifaux goodies waiting for me when I get home.
Apparently the models are also not delayed. So far I'm just reading that it's the fluff books.
That's how I read it too. Doesn't look like anything really important will be delayed thankfully.
I'm willing to actually give 3E a try though. The cards look a lot more streamlined than all the info that ended up on some of the later 2E models.
My biggest issue with Malifaux is the information overload, a problem I also had with Warmachine, where I had to know not only how all my models interacted with each other, but also all of my opponents models and all the shenanigans they could get up to.
Yeah, I think that there were a decent number of changes to improve that in 3e (like dropping upgrades), but I'm suspicious of multimaster games and still, ultimately, I feel pretty thoroughly burned by the faction and keyword shuffling nonsense.
spiralingcadaver wrote: Yeah, I think that there were a decent number of changes to improve that in 3e (like dropping upgrades), but I'm suspicious of multimaster games and still, ultimately, I feel pretty thoroughly burned by the faction and keyword shuffling nonsense.
Don't upgrades still exist? The 3e faction decks say they contain "Stat Cards and Upgrades for each tournament-legal Second Edition model in the associated Faction"
When I glanced over the 3e rules, I couldn't really tell they difference between 2e, as if not much changed at all. Admittedly though, I haven't played 2e in a long time.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I'm willing to actually give 3E a try though. The cards look a lot more streamlined than all the info that ended up on some of the later 2E models.
My biggest issue with Malifaux is the information overload, a problem I also had with Warmachine, where I had to know not only how all my models interacted with each other, but also all of my opponents models and all the shenanigans they could get up to.
For a certain amount that's going to be unavoidable for the style of "character driven skirmish game" that it is. There's fewer "Your crew did something to my crew, and the rule is on your card" situations, and fewer upgrades in play. And they were sort of ruthless about going through and consolidating similar actions and triggers (the Guild Peacemakers got normalized in with everyone else's clockwork pistols).
spiralingcadaver wrote: Yeah, I think that there were a decent number of changes to improve that in 3e (like dropping upgrades), but I'm suspicious of multimaster games and still, ultimately, I feel pretty thoroughly burned by the faction and keyword shuffling nonsense.
Don't upgrades still exist? The 3e faction decks say they contain "Stat Cards and Upgrades for each tournament-legal Second Edition model in the associated Faction"
They do still exist, but there are a lot fewer of them, and over half of them are used for things like applying persistent effects (like Jack Daw's curses) or buffs like McCades artifacts or the cards applied to summoned models. Otherwise, there's just a small handful of general upgrades for each faction, instead of M2E's situation where you'd need one binder for your model cards and a second binder for your upgrade cards.
Also IIRC a model can only start the game with a maximum of one attached upgrade.
I have a game ready tonight I'm looking forward to. I finally finished painting up my Peacekeeper and was ready to roll it out..... and then I pay closer attention to the card and realise it lost Terrifying :(
I wish I could ever find people locally who play Malifaux. Reading through the rulebook is reminding me how much I loved this game back in 1st edition.
That's pretty groovy. In related news, saw that the new rules stuff hit MiniatureMarket ... and then instantly sold out They've got some card decks from factions I don't care a ton about left and that's it. Waiting for restock then
If you ask, "is Warmachine done for?", or of any game in a bad place, you'll always get one or two guys who swear that it has never been more popular. I asked this same question of The Other Side in this thread, one page back, and nobody even bothered to type "The Other what-now?"
.Mikes. wrote: That nighmare is crew is awesome. If they extended the crew to include more Resser models I'd be all in.
Well it could be a situation like with the Curiosity killed the Cat crew- it had a preview flyer included that expanded things at Black Friday. Wouldn't surprise me we see a similar situation unfold here.
In regards to The Other Side... I don't know. I feel like I'm fighting a lost cause even trying to talk about it. At the very least the models are great fodder for other projects if the mass combat game doesn't pan out.
If you ask, "is Warmachine done for?", or of any game in a bad place, you'll always get one or two guys who swear that it has never been more popular. I asked this same question of The Other Side in this thread, one page back, and nobody even bothered to type "The Other what-now?"
Like Warmachine, there's a die-hard group that will swear the game is huge (which it really isn't) but they kind of have similar issues. With Warmachine you have a game promoted by it's company very frequently and marketed a lot at conventions, but the guys that play it are very often forces that push people away. With TOS you have the opposite- a small community that are fairly welcoming, but a company that pretty much forgot about it. We know stuff is coming, and the 2-player starter will be a huge help in growing things, but it's still a matter of when it comes out, and it's already almost 2 years since kickstarter closed and only those products have released since then. It's looking likely to be 3 years since the game's announcement before we get anything new which won't look good, and the silence while M3E has launched isn't very healthy. It's a great game but it just needs more exposure to get its legs, because right now it's limping along with a crowd that mostly backed the kickstarter and maybe roped a couple others in.
That said, M3E is great. It has me revitalised for Malifaux, and I'm looking at hitting into my backlog now to finish up crews I had half done (because of the old hiring system, most of the time I hired out of theme for good options, while now I'm all in on the keyword train). The Gencon releases look great but I'm probably putting my money into finishing crews I already own before I buy brand new ones. Seriously, I have Lynch, McMourning and Misaki outside of my faction all missing handfuls of keyword options because I nabbed them cheap
.Mikes. wrote: That nighmare is crew is awesome. If they extended the crew to include more Resser models I'd be all in.
Well it could be a situation like with the Curiosity killed the Cat crew- it had a preview flyer included that expanded things at Black Friday. Wouldn't surprise me we see a similar situation unfold here.
Same thing with the Nightmare Circus and the flying monkey Coryphee. What is kind of interesting. The other models in that keyword are Crooligans, Forgotten Marshal, Night Terrors and the Rogue Necromancy. The former feels like the most likely option, but Night Terrors could be fun.
.Mikes. wrote: I'm thinking about this, and I'm wodering if there are any other zombie pirate minis out there that coudl stand in for the rest of the keyword.
.Mikes. wrote: I'm thinking about this, and I'm wodering if there are any other zombie pirate minis out there that coudl stand in for the rest of the keyword.
.Mikes. wrote: I'm thinking about this, and I'm wodering if there are any other zombie pirate minis out there that coudl stand in for the rest of the keyword.
Privateer Press has a number in their Cryx line for Warmachine
Also got my Brine and Bones, as well as a copy of the Crossroads Seven! I've been trying to get my hands on them since before the 3e release, glad I finally had the chance.
For now, only three sets will be available fitting these criteria:
( Order Initiate x3 (Available until 09/2020)
* Elijah Borgmann & Firebranded x3 (Available until 09/2020)
* Good Ol’ Boy x3 (Available until 09/2020)
These will be orderable from your LGS.
---
Also, M2E boxes will be carried on the webstore until August 2020 for people willing to grab what they need before they get rebundled or discontinued.
It may be wise to wait until Black Friday or Easter when Wyrd has free addons if you order certain amounts.
---
I understand why they're doing this for logistics reasons. They're providing this service in order to not upset older players while still repacking current sets in order to reduce the amount of SKUs stores have to carry. However, there has been some talk about the controversial choice to not allow people to buy new model profiles if the rest of the box contains old profiles with resculpts. Notably boxes like Lucius's Agent 46 might become a problem with players having to buy the entire new box of resculpts just to obtain one model. Additionally, there may be future issues going forward with boxes such as Nekima we know is getting a resculpt; some people have all their old Lilith crew models and can just run Nekima easily except for her totem. With the Nekima box getting resculpts, the totem technically doesn't qualify.
Personally, I'm fine with this as I'm only looking forward to the Burning Bridges box contents but I already have a Fire Golem. This also allows Wyrd to rearrange box contents at will which might be better for everyone down the line. But I understand that there may be others out there forced to buy a $50 box for a single model just so they can make their Nekima crew function.
Sunno wrote: Bumping as I cant believe how little love there is for Malifaux. Amazing skirmish/warband games, in a great setting.
I think the thing is there's not a huge amount to talk about with Malifaux. It's a great game but anything new rules-wise isn't really trickled out and it's more a matter of just seeing sculpts when they arrive. That said, Explorers are really exciting and I can't wait to see when they're out and what they get
Sadly a bunch of things killed almost all my interest for Malifaux.
3rd edition made it pretty difficult for me to play the crews I have, as Kirai for example worked with the spirit keyword not only with her themed units. So I can either just field her ~5 specific types of models, which means no Night Terrors, no Manos the Risen and no Izamu which I love, or pay extra to field each of them...
As 2nd edition works incredibly well and I have only one friend to play with, who would have to switch too, switching to 3rd seems very unattracitve to me so far.
The new designs seem pretty hit'n'miss for me. Some of them look fine to really good but a big chunk of them look weird to just plain bad to me.
I have now waited 2 and a half years for Toshiro to become available again, which he is now in a box for 50$ with 5 minis I already have and without the possibility to get his 2nd edition card.
There have been a handful of new releases over the past months. They are hidden amongst repacks.
January's new release is / was Geryon, ogre type things with three heads in their chests.
@shadox Third edition is not for everyone. You can get images of many of the 2nd edition cards online. Wargame vault prints 2nd edition cards for 0.50. Many of the older models are available on the used market.
spaceelf wrote: There have been a handful of new releases over the past months. They are hidden amongst repacks.
Part of it is beta lag. Even the new releases are "known" rules wise. Just waiting on the sculpts.
Personally M3E is the game I always wanted and I adore playing it. It's one of my current top 4 along with Marvel, Infinity, and MonPoc though in truth, I haven't played a lot recently simply because Marvel has become so dominant lately.
Red Harvest wrote: Have there been any updates/FAQ/errata to the M3E rules yet? I looked not to long ago, and found nothing.
I ask on AWP and the consensus was we should expect some errate before the end of Q1. What they would be was, of course a gak fest based primarily on personal bias, but the one theme was Ten Thunders' Versatile models were too good and Shen Long needed something to calm him down. I'd also expect something to make Dashel's summoning a bit easier.
On to why Malifaux isn't more popular, I think the gaps between editions, while it asn't handled badly, could have been done better and basically put much of the community (me unclided) on hiatus and a some of those players left to other games. The hosts of the REd Jokers podcast were one, and issued a final show stating as much.
The way they included the community in refining the rules was great. A lot of work went into it, and the game is much more improved from M2, and much easier for new players to jump in. but basically putting the game on hold fo rthe better part of a year was a mistake.
I think Corvus Beli are taking a better approach with the changing from Infinity 3rd to 4th edition. They're including the wider community as Wyrd did, but they're not putting the game on hold as we wait for the new rules, and are still releasing models as we wait. Maybe they learnt from Wyrd.
Anyway, if anything where I play in Melbourne the game is growing. The club I play in isn't huge, but we have a solid core of players now, with a few extra who dabble, and w're seeing a growing base across the city. I have zero worries about the game's health.
Personally, I was pretty offended that my crews were illegal despite being specifically built together (ex: I bought some resser models for Tara's summoning as they were explicitly part of her summoning list, same goes for Lucius and the mimic keyword) only to have those interactions that weren't weird niches or spam lists but how we were encouraged to play removed.
I got over that, but now I don't really trust Wyrd re: invalidating other parts of my collection of their relatively pricey models (in 4th edition or whatever), and I can't be bothered to pay for updating my rules to an edition that gives me fewer options.
If I get back into the game, it will be with 2e rules. Wyrd burnt too many bridges for me to continue as a fan.
Red Harvest wrote: Have there been any updates/FAQ/errata to the M3E rules yet? I looked not to long ago, and found nothing.
I ask on AWP and the consensus was we should expect some errate before the end of Q1. What they would be was, of course a gak fest based primarily on personal bias, but the one theme was Ten Thunders' Versatile models were too good and Shen Long needed something to calm him down. I'd also expect something to make Dashel's summoning a bit easier.
On to why Malifaux isn't more popular, I think the gaps between editions, while it asn't handled badly, could have been done better and basically put much of the community (me unclided) on hiatus and a some of those players left to other games. The hosts of the REd Jokers podcast were one, and issued a final show stating as much.
The way they included the community in refining the rules was great. A lot of work went into it, and the game is much more improved from M2, and much easier for new players to jump in. but basically putting the game on hold fo rthe better part of a year was a mistake.
I think Corvus Beli are taking a better approach with the changing from Infinity 3rd to 4th edition. They're including the wider community as Wyrd did, but they're not putting the game on hold as we wait for the new rules, and are still releasing models as we wait. Maybe they learnt from Wyrd.
Anyway, if anything where I play in Melbourne the game is growing. The club I play in isn't huge, but we have a solid core of players now, with a few extra who dabble, and w're seeing a growing base across the city. I have zero worries about the game's health.
I think part of the hiatus was involuntary on Wyrd’s part. If I remember right they announced the last book for M2E and like a month later beta M3E webpages that pretty clearly WEREN’T meant to be up yet were found. So rather than pushing TOS, get feedback on the last M2E book, and quietly work on M3E in the background for another 6 months they HAD put M3E in the spotlight without actually being ready for its release or risk hemorrhaging even more players than they did.
Red Harvest wrote: Have there been any updates/FAQ/errata to the M3E rules yet? I looked not to long ago, and found nothing.
I ask on AWP and the consensus was we should expect some errate before the end of Q1. What they would be was, of course a gak fest based primarily on personal bias, but the one theme was Ten Thunders' Versatile models were too good and Shen Long needed something to calm him down. I'd also expect something to make Dashel's summoning a bit easier.
On to why Malifaux isn't more popular, I think the gaps between editions, while it asn't handled badly, could have been done better and basically put much of the community (me unclided) on hiatus and a some of those players left to other games. The hosts of the REd Jokers podcast were one, and issued a final show stating as much.
The way they included the community in refining the rules was great. A lot of work went into it, and the game is much more improved from M2, and much easier for new players to jump in. but basically putting the game on hold fo rthe better part of a year was a mistake.
I think Corvus Beli are taking a better approach with the changing from Infinity 3rd to 4th edition. They're including the wider community as Wyrd did, but they're not putting the game on hold as we wait for the new rules, and are still releasing models as we wait. Maybe they learnt from Wyrd.
Anyway, if anything where I play in Melbourne the game is growing. The club I play in isn't huge, but we have a solid core of players now, with a few extra who dabble, and w're seeing a growing base across the city. I have zero worries about the game's health.
I think part of the hiatus was involuntary on Wyrd’s part. If I remember right they announced the last book for M2E and like a month later beta M3E webpages that pretty clearly WEREN’T meant to be up yet were found. So rather than pushing TOS, get feedback on the last M2E book, and quietly work on M3E in the background for another 6 months they HAD put M3E in the spotlight without actually being ready for its release or risk hemorrhaging even more players than they did.
I think the thing with the 3E website is a bit of a misconception honestly. It leaked 2 weeks before Gencon and was finished anyway within those 2 weeks, the intention was very likely to have been to announce it at Gencon anyway to drum up hype
There has been an errata. It is dated March 3, 2020. If you google malifaux errata it is the first thing that comes up. However, if you look for it on the wyrd website under resources, it is not there. Good job wyrd. (It is on the Malifaux page on their site.)
Most of the changes were nerfs. Ten thunders got hit. Powerful models like stiched together and Agent 46 also got the nerf bat.
There was also news from GAMA. Three new boxes were announced:
Lord Cooper of the Explorer's Society (Think big game hunter. If you are looking for big bloodhound minis...)
Soldiers and Huntsmen (Coopers men)
and ... wait for it ...
Malisaurus Rex (Do you even need to ask... motorcycle flies over pool full of sharks)
There was also news from GAMA. Three new boxes were announced:
Lord Cooper of the Explorer's Society (Think big game hunter. If you are looking for big bloodhound minis...)
Soldiers and Huntsmen (Coopers men)
and ... wait for it ...
Malisaurus Rex (Do you even need to ask... motorcycle flies over pool full of sharks)
Nice edition to the setting. They've been needing to get out of the city for a while and the whole big game hunter vibe fits well with the Victorian era while letting them expand things. Gotten a lot of people asking about the game interested in playing it with dinos.
Definitely excited as a Sonnia player, but starting to feel a little targeted by this whole Explorer Society thing.
First you take away McCabe to make him Explorers then replace him in Guild with a new master who is Explorer as well, Then you add a T-Rex and make a new unit that works for my favorite master.... sigh...
Yeah, I guess I understand what they do it, but it feels so transparently like a gimmick to push into new factions. If it weren't for the transition to 3e I'd be okay with it, but with that transition it feels pretty cynical now.
But Malifaux's history of "Hey, look at this nice model. Don't worry about it not being your faction, we'll make an exception just for you. No, dearie, it's not cheating on your old faction" dates well back to 1st edition.
I think it's very different when they remove pieces from factions in that shuffle. Organically expanding factions by providing overlap with existing ones is a marketing gimmick; removing options is at best full of themselves that they think their pulp narrative should take priority over gaming collections, and at worst a means of artificially chopping up collections to encourage new purchases, and either way I don't really trust them as a company after that.
This week, Waldo, that clever boy, was out rummaging in his giant archaeological pit in the back of the office. It got very quiet (never a good sign when Waldo’s around) and then our cups of water started to ripple. There was an ear-splitting roar, and lo and behold, Waldo stomped into view riding atop a… well, take a look for yourself:
It seems like life, uh, always finds a way. Thanks to Titania’s magic, the Malisaurus Rex once again walks the Wildlands! Curious to see just how big this royalty-among-lizards will be? Take a look at the sculpt*:
With the Fae and Apex keywords, the Malisaurus Rex can be included in Titania’s force as well as Lord Cooper’s. The other Explorers can borrow Cooper’s pet**, of course, but need to pay a little extra.
Want to venture further into the Wildlands? Want to raise a pet Malisaurus for yourself***? Then check out Jurassic Faux, a Through the Breach One-Shot that specifically focuses on the new growth between the Knotwoods and Nythera! You can grab it here for just $5 on DriveThruRPG!"
Could be ineteresting. I love the look of the Fae but have never played, but one thing I believe they need is a bit more punch. Maybe this is going to do wonders for them.
I know 3 people personally who have looked and Malifaux and asked for a Dinosaur faction. The Apex master from the new faction this guy works with looks to be great fun as well.
Assuming that Gremlin is on a 30mm base, that Rex looks like it's on a 40mm base. It'll probably be bumped to at least 50mm. I'm actually wondering if the unit will have an engagement range of 3.
M3E fiddled around with a few base sizes between 2nd and 3rd causing me to rebase predominantly because of the model's size.
Bossk_Hogg wrote: Jesus Wyrd, why even HAVE bases if you're going to have 90% of the miniature hang over it on all sides...
Someone has apparently been looking at Privateer Press minis and declared 'Challenge Accepted!'
Honestly, for the vast majority of the line, models are on bases that are far larger than they actually need. There's only a few that overhang, but they tend to be the 50 mm bases.
It's a game where each side has 6-10 models spread across board, with no facing requiremens, most of which of 1 - 2" melee range. Fitting it in melee isn't going to be an issue worth complaining about. I mean, I appreciate this is the internet, but to consider this could be a problem worth spending typing time on is silly.
The stupid dino is way worse than the hungering darkness, which is itself a fairly egregious example. That they're getting mocked on their own forum, indicates they should just reconsider and add a new bigger base size.
Because it really doesn't matter and having larger bases impacts the ability to make dense terrain without substantially impacting the ability to play models on those larger bases?
Hot Take: This M-Rex sculpt is kind of pants in general, and I'm saying that as a career dino / rex / tentacles / spikes fan. Looks rather strung out, weedy and ill-proportioned, and I can think of several fantasy dinos I'd rather use, and that stand more upright so better fit on a base. Could well be that single render angle, but I'm sorely disappointed - and reminded of Horomatangi, a model that was pretty exciting as art but derped up proportionally in the sculpt
That's one of the big challenges of sprue plastic you don't see handled well outside of GW's expertise unfortunately. I find large creatures often end up looking thin compared to what can be done in resin or metal.
.Mikes. wrote: It's a game where each side has 6-10 models spread across board, with no facing requiremens, most of which of 1 - 2" melee range. Fitting it in melee isn't going to be an issue worth complaining about. I mean, I appreciate this is the internet, but to consider this could be a problem worth spending typing time on is silly.
Thanks for the suggestion, but I had problems with far less ridiculous overhangs, between tall models and heavy scenery use: trying to get in melee with the model hugging a wall will be a pain, regardless, and when positioning matters as much as it does in Malifaux, getting within 2" of where you'd like to be isn't a reasonable design.
Also, this is a forum about fighting toys. Do you really think that most of the posts here are done out of the intention to spend time efficiently?
That's because Wyrd has some seriously weak render artists who don't understand the concept of perspective, and poor QC. It's why we kept getting oversized crouching figures (samurai, Viks, flesh construct victim, etc) or malformed sculpts like the watcher's wings being different sizes. A gaming acquaintance was a project manager for the Other Side, and said it was maddening to have to send back sculpt after sculpt because they kept using this guy who made all the limbs extra long (see the craptastic multipart female models from TTB). Their models are generally low texture and grossly overpriced for their quality because Nathan wants to run with the big dogs and put out HIPS kits when they don't have the sales numbers to warrant it or the skill to pull it off. I wish this game would get sold off to someone who could better manage it.
This years ‘Nightmare’ box is a cyberpunk rendition of Mei Feng, which I think is pretty darn cool. I especially like that the cards match the theme too (this might be the case for all the nightmare boxes, I’m not sure).
Usually the cards are the regular style just with the alt art, name, and counts as disclaimer. This box is the first I’m aware of with a complete restyle of the cards.
I'm kinda confused. The thrown back shoulders/arched back/stepping feet makes it difficult for me to tell what motion is going on (advancing? retreating?), since that doesn't look like a good regular firing/bracing pose...
spiralingcadaver wrote: I'm kinda confused. The thrown back shoulders/arched back/stepping feet makes it difficult for me to tell what motion is going on (advancing? retreating?), since that doesn't look like a good regular firing/bracing pose...
Not being able to tell whether they’re coming or going while firing is entirely in character for Fuhatsu.
I know the alt posed guy from the Other Side ended up being metal. Which I still haven't built, along with everything else I ordered during that sale... ugh.
solkan wrote: Not being able to tell whether they’re coming or going while firing is entirely in character for Fuhatsu.
That's cute, but it really just looks like someone who pieced together action elements and came up with a design that doesn't make sense. Is it also in-character to have cloth more affected by movement than hair, for instance? Hair is blown from behind a little; cloth us blown from below and front; or if their movement is from momentum, IDK, someone else try to figure out what movement would produce that...
spiralingcadaver wrote: I'm kinda confused. The thrown back shoulders/arched back/stepping feet makes it difficult for me to tell what motion is going on (advancing? retreating?), since that doesn't look like a good regular firing/bracing pose...
My favorite part is that she's packing around a hundred bullets that would need to be manually loaded into a gatling gun for a whole second of firing. Luckily, she appears to be carrying enough fuel to blow herself and half of main street in those thigh canisters. I'm assuming that's fuel - I don't see anything she's carrying that would need a liquid of such quantities, unless she has some kind of gun oil obsession.
solkan wrote: Not being able to tell whether they’re coming or going while firing is entirely in character for Fuhatsu.
That's cute, but it really just looks like someone who pieced together action elements and came up with a design that doesn't make sense. Is it also in-character to have cloth more affected by movement than hair, for instance? Hair is blown from behind a little; cloth us blown from below and front; or if their movement is from momentum, IDK, someone else try to figure out what movement would produce that...
I've been thinking about vanilla Fuhatsu too, and wondering if the cape thing is way more to emulate the little dudes out the back than anything to do with wind or physics
solkan wrote: I can't shake the feeling that you all have never seen the model that this is an alt of.
Can't speak for others, but I have.
I'm sick of magic or the setting isn't Earth or whatever else being used to justify sloppy, poorly thought out model design or narrative or inattention to detail. Sometimes designs are just lazy and bad. Sometimes one doesn't care, but that doesn't mean they're not lazy designs or whatever, and I don't think their lack of attention needs to be somehow justified.
He's umm.... mentally damaged and, well.... lets just say this is not Wyrd's most considerate character design....
I'm honestly kind of surprised they're drawing attention to him with this alt sculpt. The M3E rules kind of swept him in the corner where I assumed he'd be quietly removed from the game after a bit.
LunarSol wrote: I'm honestly kind of surprised they're drawing attention to him with this alt sculpt. The M3E rules kind of swept him in the corner where I assumed he'd be quietly removed from the game after a bit.
Fuhatsu is a solid pick in certain situations. He's a surprisingly tanky Versatile Ruthless model which is immune to Obey effects. The biggest reason he wasn't initially chosen was that Ten Thunders have too many great Versatile models anyways and Samurai fill the generalist niche just fine for the time being. With the guided missile that is Yasunori nerfed, there's room for Fuhatsu especially in some Factional keywords that don't have a lot of shooting and can spare the cards like Youko.
Really hope we get a lot more of these from Wyrd, video content to keep your community/customers informed, engaged, invested, hyped etc is a must in this day and age IMO. Nice to see the faces of the developers working behind the curtain.
Really hope we get a lot more of these from Wyrd, video content to keep your community/customers informed, engaged, invested, hyped etc is a must in this day and age IMO. Nice to see the faces of the developers working behind the curtain.
Gencon stream:
Timestamps taken from comments:
19:40 The Other Side
26:15 Through the Breach
32:05 Vernon and Welles reveal (M3e and TTB)
40:48 Malifaux 88 Foundry nightmare core box and Missguided
43:23 The Explorer's Society
46:04 English Ivan and DUA reveal
50:12 Intrepid Effigy and Emmisary reveal
52:06 Explorer's Society starter Box
55:24 Fat Cap (alt metal golem) sculpting video
1:03:13 TWF QandA aka... Craig chats with the Wyrd Beards!
Factoids; (not a comprehensive list feel free to reply with your favourite I missed)
1:50:53 new started boxes for each faction will have new models for each faction!
I'm so happy they're releasing a great alt Metal Golem. I'm currently proxying some Warmachine model as my Metal Golem because I absolutely hate the current one.
Newsish, but it looks like Wyrd just remembered they have a Youtube channel. After three years of uploading nothing my Subscritpion feed has gone cooking futs. Firsts all the Gencon stuff, then the broken down Gencon stuff, now they're upload all the Breachside Broadcast episodes.
Yeah, it doesn't fit graboids or sandworms, who both actively dislike dense ground. High speed but treat any terrain other than open as impassible would have had way more character (though who knows what its mechanical limitations would be?).
I'm guessing Anya will be Seeker. We've seen her art at least.
We know that Syndicate is crossing over with Outcasts a bit, at least in terms of units.
The "Crow" suite seems to show what I'm suspecting will be the "Seeker" character, which I'm saying is Anya. Her style does not seem to jibe with the Syndicate(Finnigan and the Outcast Starter I posted there) we've seen. The "Seeker" stuff(Surveyors) we've seen does feel to fit a bit better.
Kanluwen wrote: I'm guessing Anya will be Seeker. We've seen her art at least.
We know that Syndicate is crossing over with Outcasts a bit, at least in terms of units.
The "Crow" suite seems to show what I'm suspecting will be the "Seeker" character, which I'm saying is Anya. Her style does not seem to jibe with the Syndicate(Finnigan and the Outcast Starter I posted there) we've seen. The "Seeker" stuff(Surveyors) we've seen does feel to fit a bit better.
She's Syndicate. We've seen cards of other models with Condor Rails symbols on them that are Syndicate, she has it as well on her outfit.
.Mikes. wrote: The Bellhop was alreayd shown with the sculpting process before. I'm calling foul and demand the Cadmus release date as recompense.
Unfortunately, no sign of the Cadmus set from retailers yet...
Amusingly, the ones we had tentative dates for(Ivan, Sandworm, Wanderlust, Malisaurus, Anya, Dirty Work, and Explorer's+Outcast starter boxes) now have no dates. It was January for Wanderlust, Worm, starters, and Malisaurus Rex then February for Ivan, Anya and Dirty Work.
Aw :( All my Malifaux crews to this point I wandered into with vague interest rather than excitement, but for Cadmus I know I'm already all in. Can't wait to get my spidery little hands on them.
Sidenote: the current thinking is that the 'starter box' for Explorer's Society will be Versatiles/[insert random keyword here] rather like the Outcast one that's coming(which is Versatile/Syndicate).
I'm genuinely thinking that ES starter will have the Botanist+plant at least.
2 weeks until the release date most retailers have given for the Explorer's book too. My guess is it'll be a master and totem a week from here on out, unless they decide to drop everything in the app on the 18th and not hold off a bit to let the book settle
Under the Sea EVS is another keyword we're now learning.
Dr. Ogden Beebe, an experienced scientist and engineer, once had the wild idea of building an underwater exploration device that could be piloted by someone inside to finally unravel the many mysteries that lie beneath the surface of the oceans. After being laughed at and ridiculed by his peers, he built it, and his illustrious new Captain caught notice and signed him to join her crew.
I'm super interested in this development and wish to know more.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Don't forget that we've seen another member of this crew it seems!
.Mikes. wrote: I hope when Wyrd gets to it they release the whole, or as much as possible, keyword in one go.
That's essentially how they've been repacking for M3E. Most keywords seem to have the Core box and a couple expansions that they've been putting out over a couple months for each one.
Tentative releases gleaned from a distributor here in the US, no specific timeframes: Lord Cooper Core and "On the Hunt" boxes are confirmed to be December by Wyrd themselves. Malisaurus Rex, "Wanderlust"(Robogoat, Bellhop Porter, and Jesse Halliday), Explorer's Society Starter box(no clue as to contents but it's likely to include the Botanist as a versatile), Outcast Starter box(this we know is a Syndicate/Outcast Versatile box), Ivan Core box, Anya Core box, "From Nightmares" box(this is likely to be the Brocken Spectre and Daevas for the Umbra keyword that Ivan has), "Dirty Work" box(likely these will be the DUA keyworded stuff for Ivan), and the Sandworm.
There had been months initially associated with things but they no longer have them. ES and Outcast starter boxes were both January along with Anya, Wanderlust, Sandworm, and Malisaurus Rex. February was From Nightmares, Dirty Work, and Ivan core box.
She's Syndicate. We've seen cards of other models with Condor Rails symbols on them that are Syndicate, she has it as well on her outfit.
I at least got it right that it was Anya! Still trying to really get into the lore and everything for Malifaux. I didn't even realize that there was a Condor Rails symbol on Syndicate stuff so good catch!
Kanluwen wrote: Doing what I can now that I've cut ties with my other obsessive non-GW game.
Between Warcaster, Bushido, and Malifaux I've been a lot happier than I was with my other choice.
Generally speaking, I've been increasingly happier the less obsessive I am with any one game, and the more I just make sure I have a force capable of playing anything that catches my eye.
This is a Through The Breach book almost 100%. From Nightmares was the name for the Neverborn book given in 2016 that got overtaken by Above the Law, and it means the original 4 "suit factions" all have their own supplement
This is a Through The Breach book almost 100%. From Nightmares was the name for the Neverborn book given in 2016 that got overtaken by Above the Law, and it means the original 4 "suit factions" all have their own supplement
Good to know then!
It threw me off because it was labelled in the Explorer's Society preorders where I was looking.
Kind of a bummer they're not doing a presale of any Explorer's boxes bundled with the book.
I have the book ordered, just so we're clear. Brother ordered it alongside of Cutting Edge Technology(that Lazarus is awesome!) and Undertow(for himself). Just gotta wait until CET comes out.
I guess the presales are more of a GenCon/Adepticon thing though?
Got confirmed on Facebook the sale goes up on the 25th, a week's time, and it only has November releases as part of it. December releases won't be there likely to avoid the issues they had at Gencon and other past sales with "promise future releases but not actually be able to go through with it on the day"
A bit underwhelmed by this year's special offerings, but if the Explorer Society stuff is available (besides the book) I may just pull the trigger anyways. Plus I want to build The Wild Ones.
Now "the other side" has been out for a while, what are people's thoughts on it?
I had a look through some of the pages from when the KS was running, and there were a few concerns about the PVC - did the final production material turn out to be any good?
I get the impression there isn't much love coming from Wyrd?
Some of the models were very good, some had a lot of problems with bendy weapons that you couldn’t straighten. Even if you heated them they would just go back to bent. I got the Absynnians, the horses couldn’t stand up to their own weight, the legs would just bend. Also one of the things that i didn’t like was the scale of the big walker was way off, the gunners on the vehicle were 2/3 the size of the regular infantry.
The problems with TOS models that bend under their own weight is something that I think can only be solved by using a different material, or scrapping those particular sculpts in favor of ones with better internal support. The mix they used just doesn't have the rigidity (is that the right term?) for some of the features they tried to use (that material simply cannot hold a joint like the middle of the leg in the Abysinian Walker). I think the big question is how much that'll cost...
At the moment, word is that the two player starter set is delayed because "What are we going to do, release it in the middle of the plague year?"
I really wish people would start dropping names and the like for Explorer's Society...the book's out in the wild. Mine, unfortunately, won't be until December since it's in an order that can't be split with Cutting Edge Technology.
Kanluwen wrote: I really wish people would start dropping names and the like for Explorer's Society...the book's out in the wild. Mine, unfortunately, won't be until December since it's in an order that can't be split with Cutting Edge Technology.
The Flippin Wyrds podcast is doing a show a day this weel, talking about the ES and the new keywords. They started off today with the Versatile models.
Also the app is due to be updated aaaaaaaany time now. Any time..... now. Aaaany-you get the idea. It's a one man band ont he app, though, so some slack is given.
We’re excited to announce that the digital PDF of the Explorer’s Society Faction book is now available on DriveThruRPG!
Whether you’re struggling to find yourself a copy at your local game store or prefer to read books on your tablet, the option is available for purchase.
If you purchased a physical copy of the book* and sent in your receipt for the digital PDF promotion, hang tight just a little bit longer. We will start fulfilling those promotions tomorrow (December 1st) and will continue to do so periodically until the promotion is over.
The Explorer’s Society Faction book is filled with four brand new stories that further push the narrative of Malifaux, bios of all the new characters, and stat cards for each of them, as well. We’ll be releasing the stat cards on the Malifaux Crew Builder app and on Dropbox for free on December 23rd, just before the holidays, so this is a great way to start strategizing early!
Head over to DriveThruRPG to pick up your digital Explorer’s Society Faction book today!
*Refunds are not available on the digital copy of the Explorer’s Society Faction book after purchasing a physical copy and fulfilling the digital promotion.
Urrrrrrrrrrrrgh...they made it sound like we were going to get the cards on the app within the first few weeks of December, not the end!
Oh well. There's the info for everyone who wants to get it now. Make sure you let me know what Explorer Vessel Superior is all about!
Guessing the starter will be Maxine, Orville, 3x Machinists, and Kiya.
Thinking Harpooners will come in the Society starter alongside of something Versatile, maybe? Zero idea on Harata or Beebe and Calypso or the Tidecaller.
Remember that Jessie Halliday got revealed a while back as a Wastrel + ES Versatile.
She also has a Harpoon Gun, so I can imagine her being packaged with the Harpooners to make a box set that has a Versatile henchman plus models relevant to EVS and Apex.
Spoiler:
Speculation, but Jules & Verne were mentioned to be a model a while back, and they'd thematically fit very well with EVS.
We know that Halliday is coming with the Mechagoat and Bellhop Porter in the "Wanderlust" set.
We also know there's some Syndicate/Versatiles in the Outcast starter coming out around the same time as Wanderlust and the ES starter.
Here's the list I have handy of upcoming boxes, dates are all tentative via Miniature Market: December is Cooper Core and On the Hunt January is Wanderlust, Malisaurus, Sandworm--also Outcast Starter which has Syndicate items from last we saw. February is Anya Core, Ivan Core, Dirty Work, and Explorer's Starter.
App updated today. I suppose Wyrd underesteimated the excitement for the faction and how everyone would go out of their way to share the cards. It's a good sign everyone's so excited.
Seekers are really cool overall. Great mix of creepy/cool.
English Ivan is the hands down winner for me though. All of his models are just raw style. I don't really want Explorers, but I might just have to pick him up.
EVS doesn't do it for me like I hoped. They feel kind of dull.
Syndicate's master is really cool and I like the models okay, but they have a lot of overlap with Ivan.
Cadmus is a whole bunch of icky nope. Burn it... in a good way.
I'm not a fan of the Apex minions but Cooper himself is a jolly ol'sport and gets a T-rex so....
Worth mentioning that Syndicate is incomplete. There's some stuff that's Syndicate/Outcast Versatile coming in the Outcast starter. I was genuinely surprised they didn't put it in there!
The DUA/Umbra and Syndicate have really made me sit up and take notice. Looks like the Explorer's Starter coming out soon is gonna be an interesting one too...probably with 2x Hopeful Prospects, 3x Botanists, and Mr. Ngaatoro, since he was on the box art that I'm struggling finding along with the Hopeful Prospect #1.
Looks like "Dirty Work" is going to be Corvis Rook and 2x Operatives too...or the surprise Wastrel "Cryptologists". Either way, I'm seeing it listed at $24 which ain't too shabby.
So I'm thinking I'll be in for Anya, Outcast Starter, and Dirty Work!
I'm really liking what I'm seeing too. I thought I'd be in for Cadmus and maybe DUA, but now I've seen it up close, I'm still in for Cadmus but REALLY excited for DUA, will dfeinatly be getting Seeker, probably EVS and even APEX.
One of the things I love about Malifaux is how they pull the looks, story and playstyle of a keyword together, and they;ve nailed it with ES. DUA and Cadmus especially. If only from a painting standpoint I want those and Seeker. I wouldn't be surprised if I end up getting everything except Frontier and Wastrel.
Speaking of, I'm surprised Frontier got nothing in the release.
.Mikes. wrote: I'm really liking what I'm seeing too. I thought I'd be in for Cadmus and maybe DUA, but now I've seen it up close, I'm still in for Cadmus but REALLY excited for DUA, will dfeinatly be getting Seeker, probably EVS and even APEX.
One of the things I love about Malifaux is how they pull the looks, story and playstyle of a keyword together, and they;ve nailed it with ES. DUA and Cadmus especially. If only from a painting standpoint I want those and Seeker. I wouldn't be surprised if I end up getting everything except Frontier and Wastrel.
Speaking of, I'm surprised Frontier got nothing in the release.
Technically Rough Riders and Sand Worm despite being spoiled previously.
Pretty safe to infer Brocken Spectres and Nocturnes will be the together for the rest of Umbra then. Looking like we'll have Syndicate, DUA/Umbra, Apex and half the Versatiles first up and hopefully finishing off the older 2 keywords (Rough Riders and Cryptologists I'm guessing will be the same box to finish Wastrel and Frontier)
January and February releases listed on Wyrd's Upcoming page. We get some sneak-ah peek-ahs! January: Malisaurus(RAAAAAAAAAAWR!):
Spoiler:
Sandworm:
Spoiler:
Wanderlust:
Spoiler:
February ANYA!:
Spoiler:
Dirty Work:
Spoiler:
English Ivan:
Spoiler:
Jessie's the only one I'm feeling "meh" about. Something looks off about her neck, but it might be easily fixed with a paintjob. Some stuff's been moved around(Cutting Edge Technology to January! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! ) and some of the stuff that solicits have had do not appear(Outcast and Explorer's Society starter sets) at all.
Oh yeah, and for Rygnan who called it from the outset: Here's the cover for "From Nightmares", the Neverborn faction book!
Some good models but some odd elements - not sure f there is any distortion of the images or its angles?
The Rex is fun
Sandworm I think is good but odd angle
Jessie has a giant neck which looks just wrong.
Bellhop is cool
Anya is great as Is Corvis
Operative 1 seems to have a giant hand but otherwise like them both
English Ivan looks good as does his Crew and esp Eva
They're very similar to the M2E line of 2 player starters; just broken out so you don't have to find someone to share with. I'm not really convinced they make a better starting product than a crew box, but they ARE a good item for FLGS to stock to promote the game.
Kanluwen wrote: Just throwing this out there, but the Sandworm is a 50mm based model for $18. Miniature Market has it for $14.49 if you're willing to go that route.
Sadly Wyrd's gakky pricing has struck again and it's now $28. You can of course buy the Derpasuarus Rex for $45!
Wyrd - charging GW prices for sub PVC detail since M2E.
LunarSol wrote: I'm not really convinced they make a better starting product than a crew box, but they ARE a good item for FLGS to stock to promote the game.
Totally there to promote the game to new players. I'm not 100% down with how Wyrd are packaging their models now and would much prefer they do it how they did in M2e, but I understand in the current day when shelf space is ata premium why they did it, these starters are part of that push. Meh, if it helps the game grow I'm fine with it.
On another note, it's been nearly a year since GG1 came out and people are already asking about GG2 and.... I ahven't played a single game of GG1 thanks to plague-o-geddon. I'm hoping when they get there they give us something to make Sonia viable again.
Kanluwen wrote: Just throwing this out there, but the Sandworm is a 50mm based model for $18. Miniature Market has it for $14.49 if you're willing to go that route.
Sadly Wyrd's gakky pricing has struck again and it's now $28. You can of course buy the Derpasuarus Rex for $45!
Wyrd - charging GW prices for sub PVC detail since M2E.
Yeah, their pricing vs. detail is sometimes pretty bad. Also, their sculptors so seemed to misunderstand how to translate illustrations to models, with weird warping etc. That, and the way they broke up themes meant I've disappointingly never made the transition to 3rd because it would have taken variously getting new collections or invalidating parts of mine; if 4th is a strong streamlining or something, I might, but 3rd felt like change for the sake of change, and left me behind...
Totally there to promote the game to new players. I'm not 100% down with how Wyrd are packaging their models now and would much prefer they do it how they did in M2e, but I understand in the current day when shelf space is ata premium why they did it, these starters are part of that push. Meh, if it helps the game grow I'm fine with it.
I've gotten more new players on the "buy a crew box and one expansion" model than I did for the entirety of M1E and M2E combined. For the most part the bundle prices have been better than what they were individually, and I think it really helps that there's usually something flashy to sell with some of the duller, but important meat and potato models in boxes now. I do wish they'd sell singles on their webstore longer though just to help existing players patch up their collections. I did a lot of clearance shopping during the transition to avoid it, but that window closed faster than I would have liked.
LunarSol wrote: I'm not really convinced they make a better starting product than a crew box, but they ARE a good item for FLGS to stock to promote the game.
Totally there to promote the game to new players. I'm not 100% down with how Wyrd are packaging their models now and would much prefer they do it how they did in M2e, but I understand in the current day when shelf space is ata premium why they did it, these starters are part of that push. Meh, if it helps the game grow I'm fine with it.
.
Their packaging is borderline predatory in this edition. It's not about reducing the number of SKU's, it's about making you rebuy models you already own. Look at the Ophelia box... they added La Croix raiders (new units) and moved Remi, Raphael, and Pere Ravage to the Copycats box. If you want Sami in the Copycats box, you have to rebuy 3 units and if you want the La Croix raiders you have to rebuy Ophelia/young Lecroix. They don't even give you the courtesy of a reacharound by giving them new sculpts. Yan Lo, Somer, Leviticus, the 2 player box sets, and doubtless others I am missing were all split up to intentionally require you to buy old models to get new ones, when they could have just as easily packaged old with old and new with new.
Not to mention they let their little circlejerk on the forums decide which masters to squat. So yay, I'm now out Ramos, Lilith and Collodi, while Lynch was kicked out of Neverborn because 20 or so people voted that way. Sure, you can use them in unofficial play... just like other random fan made units! They don't get new units or support, and aren't really balanced, so they're effectively gone for most people.
Nathan wants to run with the big dogs and is really proud of his plastics, but they game doesn't have the playerbase to support HIPS. If they went resin like WWX they could at least justify the botique prices. I like the game, but really hate the company behind it.
I think you're prescribing a lot of malice that isn't really there, but maybe I'm too forgiving. Brand new models are sold on their store individually for players that already had M2E releases and the boxes are drawn up pretty cleanly to buy by keyword.
I guess I also just saw M2E's style as far more predatory and this is a huge improvement. I have such a mess of models I don't want because they were part of a set that included a model I needed from a crew from a different faction. Starting now, for the most part I can buy into a master without much in the way of excess. I've got a total of 4 duplicates from the new box sets, and they're all a result of the new bundles being cheap enough that it wasn't worth the special order to avoid duplicates.
LunarSol wrote: I think you're prescribing a lot of malice that isn't really there, but maybe I'm too forgiving.
Had a gaming friend who was over one of Wyrd's lines, so have some additional insight into the company, so I'm less forgiving.
Brand new models are sold on their store individually for players that already had M2E releases and the boxes are drawn up pretty cleanly to buy by keyword.
The new special models are also expensive, to the point where you may as well buy the entire box again. You can get the La Croix raiders for $27 plus exorbitant shipping from Wyrd, or the whole box from an online retailer for $38.
It's great that the models are sold individually on their website. Fantastic for people in the US that don't need to add high international shipping charges (and wait tbh) on top of that, but a little less so for the rest of the world. I don't know if it's really malice or just tone-deafness, but the way they mixed up contents of boxes and outright squatted some units/masters was really annoying, to the point I've not bought anything beyond the rulebook this edition.
Cronch wrote: I don't know if it's really malice or just tone-deafness, but the way they mixed up contents of boxes and outright squatted some units/masters was really annoying, to the point I've not bought anything beyond the rulebook this edition.
This. I can't tell if they're intentionally pushing around their fanbase, or if they're just in their fan echochamber so think everyone's on board, but it's really alienating.
They still have the old M2E models on their website if you want to purchase them separately.
The new M3E packaging sells models in a bundle cheaper than if you bought the M2E models individually.
They also have 'new' models in bundles available as special orders from a local game store or online within a year after release.
The repackaging rather makes sense. Each crew box is basically a Master, Totem(s), Henchman, and 3x Minions. Some Masters like Ophelia, Marcus, etc that didn't have a 3x minion got them in their starter boxes.
I'm very much enjoying M3E.
---
I think the "squatting" of Masters/Units is a bit overblown. Two of the Masters that got squatted, Ramos and Lillith, can easily translate their gameplay style over to another Master. If you want the characters themselves and care about fluff, they still have stat cards you can use. Collodi's removal still confuses me, but you can still run a Puppet list
Except of course Lilith's henchdemon is now outcast, and specifically can't be taken by Nekima, and instead the new henchman is the dude that used to be resser mostly, not to mention Lilith plays nothing like Nekima. Out of the entire crew, only the basic nephilim are useable. The arcanists also had keyword reshuffling/the new keywords ensured that old builds no longer work. Gunsmiths can't be taken by Kaeris anymore among other things. The new focus on keywords with listbuilding combined with no regard for legacy collections essentially means you're sometimes left with a dozen figures that used to fit but no longer do with your master of choice.
They still have the old M2E models on their website if you want to purchase them separately.
And shipping will double their price if you happen to be a disgusting non-american. Much like most US-based mini companies, getting anything "direct' is usually not worth it.
Yeah, they might feel overblown to some, but for those of us who ran theme lists that were very much in line with what was encouraged, it stung pretty bad. Things like old boxed sets not functioning together isn't a corner-case scenario, they're IMHO really bad missteps, whatever the reason.
Edit: to be clear, I'm 100% not talking about weird spam lists, exploiting interactions with mercenaries, etc., I'm talking about things where they were for instance introduced with the same keyword and the fiction and rules aligned.
Like if suddenly Dark Angels weren't allowed to take Ravenwing (which migrated to Fallen because Sammael or whoever decided Cypher is right) and Deathwing were replaced with generic Terminator units because they wanted to rationalize the line which mostly works except not for their elite units or y'know flavor. Obviously not on the same scale, but IDK, Malifaux is a small scale and it's the closest analogy I could think of. When factions and forces are smaller and the game takes a lot more focus than something like 40k, the effect, if not the cost, is equivalent.
I was never a Neverborn player, so I understand they were the most affected by the reshuffle. Some, like Killjoy in Fae and Barbaros outside of Nephilim were annoying along with Collodi going away.
However, for people that stuck around, the keyword system has really improved gameplay. M2E really did get bogged down with taking a good Master and taking all the best units you were allowed to take. The 'best' way to play was to ignore theme altogether. M3E's keyword system really does encourage theme lists wholeheartedly while still allowing you to, at a tax, take whatever else you want in-faction.
Reshuffling box sets, I agree, is a nuisance for enfranchised players. Again, however, the M2E boxed sets are still available, and any new bundled models are available individually.
M1E -> M2E was worse with every master getting a new boxed set with completely new models and no way to obtain the new units aside from buying what you already have. To this day I still have a proxied Wendigo, Steam Trunk, and Jakalope primarily because I don't want to buy plastic versions of the metal models I already own.
Okay, I get the awkward boxes, but I didn't remember hardly anything being invalidated.
Well, except the avatars that they seemed to slowly determine to be unmanageable, but that wasn't at launch.
On keywords, I don't have a problem with those at all; a tax is fine as a balancing mechanism, I just don't like how they screwed with things like barbaros switching factions without a need.
I'm not going to beat around the bush: I took cross-faction masters because I thought they did neat things and I liked being able to double dip in different factions, and I just happened to like many of them. IIRC Mei Feng was the only I played that I felt didn't lose some key rules that allowed them to take their thematic pieces. I don't mind a number of the changes, but I think it's really bad design to axe masters or break up themes. And now, IDK, what's that expression, once bitten twice shy re: invalidated collections.
spiralingcadaver wrote: Okay, I get the awkward boxes, but I didn't remember hardly anything being invalidated.
Well, except the avatars that they seemed to slowly determine to be unmanageable, but that wasn't at launch.
Avatars are now used as Emissaries. There's even an option in the crew bbuilder app to select them. The Seamus avatar is the Avatar or Dread for example.
spiralingcadaver wrote: Okay, I get the awkward boxes, but I didn't remember hardly anything being invalidated.
Well, except the avatars that they seemed to slowly determine to be unmanageable, but that wasn't at launch.
Avatars are now used as Emissaries. There's even an option in the crew bbuilder app to select them. The Seamus avatar is the Avatar or Dread for example.
Oh, wait, so they're useable again? Or is it still the weird thing where you can have necro Jeckyll and Hyde on the same field together? And honestly, that weirdness is why I hadn't been thinking about them...
I'm going to join the chorus here expressing bitterness about the squatting. I joined 2d edition because a few guys in my gaming group got really excited about Malifaux and dragged a few others in the group along. Playing the game, I always felt outclassed by those in our group who threw themselves into things; they knew all the crews inside and out, and played rings around me. Still, I dug the narrative setting and the figures, so I fleshed out a few Neverborn crews and played along....
Fatefully, my favorite leader was Lilith. I loved her narrative and her look and the feel of her crew (that whole Neverborn/Black Blood vibe) and the way she played.
So now, I feel as though I've been left behind by 3d edition and frankly, I don't care enough to find a new crew and catch up again.
Lately gaming for me has been playing Arkham Horror LCG and waiting for GamesWorkshop to release a new codex for either Chaos Space Marines or Chaos Daemons.
*sigh. I do miss miniature gaming. But with COVID, combined with feeling d*cked around by both GW and Wyrd, that part of my life has shrunk down to hobbying for the time being.
And even though I still like both the aesthetic and the narrative concept of Malifaux, I don't see myself going back in in the foreseeable future.
Cue the usual gnashing of teeth. I agree with the errata pretty much mostly. Summoners got a big nerf by any model with a summoned upgrade can't do the Interact action at all now, but pretty much everyone agreed they needed something to dent their effectiveness so this seems to be pretty decent.
Another big change is Focus is now limited to 2 at once, so no stacking focus anymore.
Cue the usual gnashing of teeth. I agree with the errata pretty much mostly. Summoners got a big nerf by any model with a summoned upgrade can't do the Interact action at all now, but pretty much everyone agreed they needed something to dent their effectiveness so this seems to be pretty decent.
They can't use Interact to work with the Strategy Markers (relevant to three of the four strategies). That still leaves working with scheme markers, and the non-strategy uses of Interact like putting out fires.
The summon change is perfectly fine on a surface level until you look at who it affects the worst. The summoners you would think it's meant to hit (Dreamer, Dashel, Asami) don't really actually care about the change but the "summoners" who already struggled (Ulix in particular) got put in the dirt by this. Ulix has maybe one good strategy now when he wasn't particularly good before and Leveticus got an entire facet of his kit almost removed (in combination with his keyword nerfs, he went from a damage-focused generalist to a beater crew with mediocre scheming).
That said, a lot of crews came out of this very well. Tara in particular is back on top and I love it, especially because Talos is actually worth taking now and I love the model
But before we go, we wanted to also show how Sonnia will play in The Other Side. Whether she’s commanding her own Guild company or lending some help to another Earth commander, Sonnia will be a force to be reckoned with on the 4x6 field.
The Other Side’s Starter Box will be releasing at Gen Con later this year. In it, players will have enough models to create two small introductory companies to battle against one another in The Other Side (or to be used to build upon existing Allegiances). Additionally, every single one of those models in the TOS Stater Box will also be playable in Malifaux as versatile Guild or Resurrectionist characters.
I haven't repurposed my Gibbering Hordes pledge yet, maybe I'll see if I can't get my airbrush working and get those bad boys on their unit pucks, in case I play the game within the next year?
EDIT: So I really like the Court of Two, and was poking around seeing if I could buy their stuff from Wyrd (spoilers: nope). Further digging suggests that they're one of the factions in that new starter, which checks out given that half of it is Resser-friendly. The other side obviously being Guild.
EDIT2: Further sleuthing has informed me that the contents of the starter box have been known for years, and the release date has been pushed back repeatedly. Gotta assume the pandemic was responsible for at least one year of that delay.
Bossk_Hogg wrote: So Wyrd can come up with 2 master cards with different roles for everyone, but cant find design space for Lillith, Collodi, Ramos, etc?
Not sure what you mean? Those characters have fully playable rules in M3E.
Bossk_Hogg wrote: So Wyrd can come up with 2 master cards with different roles for everyone, but cant find design space for Lillith, Collodi, Ramos, etc?
Sure. It's called "In order to have those models still actively in the game, they'd have to be redesigned to the point that they no longer acted like the models they were." That's the Dead Man's Hand situation, and no one wants to stick their hand in that blender.
For the variants, if you don't like the variants, you don't get forced to use them if they don't act they way you want them to.
Bossk_Hogg wrote: So Wyrd can come up with 2 master cards with different roles for everyone, but cant find design space for Lillith, Collodi, Ramos, etc?
Not sure what you mean? Those characters have fully playable rules in M3E.
Not really. They aren't balanced, tournament legal, and don't get new units added. One of the alleged reasons they were squatted were because they were "too hard" to find a niche for. Despite their niches being given directly to other masters, who now have multiple roles.
Bossk_Hogg wrote: So Wyrd can come up with 2 master cards with different roles for everyone, but cant find design space for Lillith, Collodi, Ramos, etc?
Sure. It's called "In order to have those models still actively in the game, they'd have to be redesigned to the point that they no longer acted like the models they were." That's the Dead Man's Hand situation, and no one wants to stick their hand in that blender.
For the variants, if you don't like the variants, you don't get forced to use them if they don't act they way you want them to.
That argument doesnt hold up to scrutiny. Lillith was directly pushed aside for their circlejerk of a forum's favorite titty demon, Nekima. Hoffman replaced Ramos as the arcanist's construct guy for... reasons?
Bossk_Hogg wrote: Hoffman replaced Ramos as the arcanist's construct guy for... reasons?
I mean, I haven't been following closely, but Hoffman since his origins has always had an Arcanist connection.
Generously, I might suppose that they're so obsessed with the magisterial craft of their world building that they prioritized that over player collections.
Skeptically, I might suppose that it has to do with their attempted rationalization of boxes etc., and damn the consequences. (I have no idea how much of a mess their box transition was... I needed some space from the company when they announced their changes.)
Cynically, I might suppose that their reorganization is designed to keep players buying when it forces them to reorganize their collections, play sub-par or fragmented collections, or bail. Either way, this is the effect as far as I'm concerned. I wasn't burned by losing a master I cared about playing, but yeah it's not a nice move when since the game started they've emphasized the centrality of your master in building a crew.
To which I see a lot of the M3E changes as a correction to that. M2E really didn't have much master centrality and you bought a LOT of stuff just to build the super friends combo you needed. M3E is a lot more in line with what I wanted out of the game initially.
As for the replacements. Ramos and Hoffman have always been two sides of the same coin. They're modeled after Magneto and Xavier after all. Hoffman working with Ramos to fix Ryle has been a thing forever and most people were surprised he wasn't dual faction in M2E when that was heavily a thing. From a story perspective, taking Ramos off the board removes a lot of the need to force Arcanists into the M&SU mold and brings a lot of the rogue spellcaster elements back in.
I'm not sure exactly why anyone would be surprised about Nekima. That's like... her whole thing. She also lets them design the Nephilim as more of the fast aggressive playstyle people have generally wanted out of them, despite Lilith being much more of a control master. Most of that playstyle ended up in Titania's hands instead.
I do find it interesting that they pretty much cut off the heads of the original factions. Cutting Nicodem was zero surprise as his "summon anything" style was always a huge balance issue. They did similarly massively tone down Marcus for similar reasons, but removing him along with the Governor General meant the original 4 had lost their original leader. Curious how things would have changed if the community had voted to kill Lady J.
I am incredibly excited to announce that Wyrd has reached out to us at Steam Powered Scoundrels for a very special collaboration. We get to reveal upcoming release material! The drop date is July 30th for our special episode, but that's not the best part. It's not just us! I won't spoil who's participating or when, but Wyrd has really outdone themselves this time. The build-up to GenCon is going to truly be amazing.
.Mikes. wrote: Big news drop coming July 3oth apparently.
From steampowered scoundrels:
I am incredibly excited to announce that Wyrd has reached out to us at Steam Powered Scoundrels for a very special collaboration. We get to reveal upcoming release material! The drop date is July 30th for our special episode, but that's not the best part. It's not just us! I won't spoil who's participating or when, but Wyrd has really outdone themselves this time. The build-up to GenCon is going to truly be amazing.
My guess is it'll be more titles before the new book launches. They did the same last Gencon showing off the Apex keyword
streetsamurai wrote: Is malifaux still going strong? In my area, it was big 10 years ago, but seems to have taken a hit since
The rumors of Wyrd deciding to replace all of their current plastic with giant puppets are unsubstantiated rumors.
It's dead Jim, but M3E looks like they got their collectivist heads out of their fourth point of contact and actually listened to some real game designers for a change, and have been hard at work shoring up some of the bone heads content that they had saddled themselves up with in 2d Edition, which pretty much killed the game for them.
Now- Less of the jackass, and more factions and characters. They actually look like they want to make a real game, now, and it's not just that one guy's vanity project for his E-peen stroking.
And of course they have expanded the story even further, and added more characters and factions. As well as printing the figures so they weren't saddled up with all of those ridiculously cut pieces on the sprues that lead to "Gluing to your fingers, and crapping on the pieces-ITIS."
There are some pretty favorable reviews o the game over on YouTube, and I've also got some of the figures up and running for Shadows of Brimstone.
Their biggest issue is that damn card system. They keep making "Nu and Improved", and people still have a gak-load of figures that are pretty much worthless now, and a sour taste in their mouth from the last moves they pulled in 2E.
They should have a trade in system, if they are going to keep going down this road.
Over the pandemic there have been loads of Malifaux vassal games - as far as I can tell M3E is very popular, but it's location dependant.
As for models that are trash: there are a few models that are never worth taking, and a lot which are very situational, but Malifaux is very complex and plays well into the hyper competitive mindset. There are lots of models that get complained about for being weak, which then appear as lynchpin's in high ranking tournament games.
Also, the yearly gaining grounds tournament packs mix up the gameplay a lot more than you would expect from reading the schemes and strategies.
But, I think the biggest problem is that most of this just goes over the head of most players. A Malifaux player who plays regularly and ranks highly in tournaments can be given a randomly generated in-keyword crew and wipe the floor with any beginner using what's considered the best setup for a given master + strategy + scheme pool + deployment.
MrPieChee wrote: Over the pandemic there have been loads of Malifaux vassal games - as far as I can tell M3E is very popular, but it's location dependant.
As for models that are trash: there are a few models that are never worth taking, and a lot which are very situational, but Malifaux is very complex and plays well into the hyper competitive mindset. There are lots of models that get complained about for being weak, which then appear as lynchpin's in high ranking tournament games.
Also, the yearly gaining grounds tournament packs mix up the gameplay a lot more than you would expect from reading the schemes and strategies.
But, I think the biggest problem is that most of this just goes over the head of most players. A Malifaux player who plays regularly and ranks highly in tournaments can be given a randomly generated in-keyword crew and wipe the floor with any beginner using what's considered the best setup for a given master + strategy + scheme pool + deployment.
More to this, Shcemes and Stones rel;easd data from the Vassal world series on factions wins, whcih was:
Ressers 49% Win Rate with 212 Games
Explorers 49% Win Rate with 160 Games
Neverborn 47% Win Rate with 221 Games
Outcasts 46% Win Rate with 127 Games
Guild 44% Win Rate with 154 Games
Arcanists 44% Win Rate with 147 Games
Thunders 41% Win Rate with 155 Games
Bayou 39% Win Rate with 170 Games
If you ignore ties:
Explorers 56% Win Rate with 139 Games
Ressers 53% Win Rate with 193 Games
Neverborn 51% Win Rate with 202 Games
Guild 50% Win Rate with 133 Games
Outcasts 49% Win Rate with 118 Games
Arcanists 49% Win Rate with 133 Games
Bayou 47% Win Rate with 144 Games
Thunders 46% Win Rate with 140 Games
Considering there's eight factions with over 50 masters between them and it's less than a 10% win / loss ration between them all shows a bloody balanced game.
But, I think the biggest problem is that most of this just goes over the head of most players.
I find Malifaux a hard sell to people locally, not because of the models (which people love) not because of the setting (which people enjoy) its because the core mechanics and gameplay concepts are outside the norm and they have to actually think about it.
At the end of the day, people have less time, sorter attention span and quite frankly are much more dumb or simple compared to many years ago. The majority of the wargaming community don't want detailed tactical games. They want pretty models and simple basic mechanics that do the job. That's why GW is so popular. They worked out that people are simple creatures. You attract the masses with simple games and flashy OTT models, not by having 6 nerds in a basement discussing the minutiae of a rule or dice roll or having players need to invest personal time away from the table learning things. Also those sorts of nerds and activities are not the type of people or actions they need to sell wargaming to the masses.
The Malifaux card mechanics are not hard but takes some time to get use to and master the risk/reward of cheating and hand cycling etc. Its far easier to roll 10 dice and see which ones come up 4 or more.
Malifaux is an amazing game, and my fav game but people need to realise that much like Infinity, WM/H etc it out of step with the simple one dimensional wargaming that most people want, or in fact believe represents what wargaming is.
The complex thing about Malifaux isn't the cards. It's the movement.
Placement is critical to so many effects that, with alternating activations, you've got to plan many steps ahead. Also, all the models have loads of rules that new players have to keep looking up.
On the official forums there's been loads of talk of a simplified version of Malifaux to help get more players involved.
But, GW has the market with simple games and fighting in that space might be futile. Sticking to a smaller market without the big companies dominating it, is probably a good bet.
At the end of the day, people have less time, sorter attention span and quite frankly are much more dumb or simple compared to many years ago.
Ah yes, blaming the customer for not buying the product, the rational thing to do.
Malifaux has decent set of core rules, where it gets weird is in how many rules interactions can there be, and how...token-heavy the game gets. corpse markers, scheme markers, flame/poison etc. markers...all of it looks kinda ugly on the tabletop, which is sad for a game with that much visual identity and style.
That and the mis-steps in 3rd ed meant that the playerbase experienced a (thankfully) smaller version of the complete collapse that warmachine 3ed had.
streetsamurai wrote: Is malifaux still going strong? In my area, it was big 10 years ago, but seems to have taken a hit since
The rumors of Wyrd deciding to replace all of their current plastic with giant puppets are unsubstantiated rumors.
It's dead Jim, but M3E looks like they got their collectivist heads out of their fourth point of contact and actually listened to some real game designers for a change, and have been hard at work shoring up some of the bone heads content that they had saddled themselves up with in 2d Edition, which pretty much killed the game for them.
Now- Less of the jackass, and more factions and characters. They actually look like they want to make a real game, now, and it's not just that one guy's vanity project for his E-peen stroking.
Tell us how you really feel.
TBH I have no idea what you are even referring to, I've played Malifaux but never really got into the community side of things.
Malifaux always feels, to me, a lot like my efforts to build the Star Wars: Armada community. Teaching the game is a breeze, but teaching people to truly embrace their wealth of options is a totally different beast.
Personally I love both because it takes work, practice, etc... but you can notably grow as a player. I love the element of skill coupled with giant pools of options... both of which are increasingly shunned by casual wargamers.
Don't get me wrong, there's a place for dice-chucking games too, but sometimes you just need meat.
.Mikes. wrote:Considering there's eight factions with over 50 masters between them and it's less than a 10% win / loss ration between them all shows a bloody balanced game.
That's great to hear! The more I played M2E, the more it felt like Ressers were just obviously better, and rewarded players who could afford to buy entire lines, when MFX was often pitched as a simple, cheap buy-in because you just needed a crew and a box or two. I've been much happier to see M3E's keyword system return to that promise of not having to own an entire faction. But also the balance part
Sunno wrote:I find Malifaux a hard sell to people locally, not because of the models (which people love) not because of the setting (which people enjoy) its because the core mechanics and gameplay concepts are outside the norm and they have to actually think about it. ... The Malifaux card mechanics are not hard but takes some time to get use to and master the risk/reward of cheating and hand cycling etc. Its far easier to roll 10 dice and see which ones come up 4 or more.
The complexity of MFX is both a draw for me as well as a turn off. I played probably a dozen games of M2E and often felt like I wasn't 'doing it right' - like I was probably getting most the rules right, but sequencing and doing what my crew wanted and what the schemes wanted were always off. I'm content to chock it up to learning curve, but I left most games with my head swimming, even if I somehow won.
As for the card flopping, they're a huge part of why I'm always trying to get back into M3E. Really cool, really different from the dice games I play, love the cheating and etc. Here's where I'll also shout-out the stronger crew identity of M3E being a selling point, and also helpful for me to understand 'what a crew wants to do' (tho I'm with those who miss when masters could be pushed different ways depending on upgrades, etc.) in game.
Final thought on MFX, a major impediment for me is that I can't stand building the minis. I'm increasingly done with plastic kits, and Wyrd produces the most frustrating of the breed - many tiny pieces, tiny contact points, gaps everywhere. This is coincidentally also why The Other Side is probably my #1 game that I'm not playing Hoping to change that in 2022.
Lets be honest, it's never been BIG in the same way other games are. It's always been a fairly niche game, but one that was able to make a name for itself before the skirmish market got as crowded as it currently is.
That's not to disparage the game in any way. Mechanically they really figured out how to balance the game in M2E and while it worked for that era of "how e-sports can we get?" gaming, M3E really embraced the world they've created and crafted mechanics that make masters as distinct as they really need to be. Easily the best edition of the game and locally its never been more popular.
That said, it's still relatively niche and that's not terribly likely to change. It's a weird, demanding, complicated system that's not for everyone. Always places it could be improved, but its niche isn't likely to vanish any time soon, so its in a great spot if you want to play.
LunarSol wrote: M3E really embraced the world they've created and crafted mechanics that make masters as distinct as they really need to be.
I agree wholeheartedly. One of the things I love about Malifaux is how each master feels and plays like the master should. Lucius' lawyers tie you up in legalese and slow you down rather than kill you and that's a viable play style. Each master feels so full of character and is still fun and effective.
And also that's one reason I've had trouble getting people into the game. It's not always obvious and requires some up front thought to appreciate. I had one guy who asked about the game while I was playing at my FLGS actually scoff and walk away from the table when I explained to him that I was about to lose the game even thought I'd just killed my opponent's final model. It's not an all guns blazing game and it's not always an obvious game, and that's why I love it.
- or used like 4 of a crappy minion because it's what I had. Or like 2 of a thing in the case of my Mei Feng, who now has a spare mechanical porkchop that I have pretty much zero use for since they're now enforcers.
. You are speaking my language (that period was my favorite gaming experience ever, of any system!). Just wish I had more time to take advantage of this 
They've got some card decks from factions I don't care a ton about left and that's it. Waiting for restock then 
.JPG)
