I'm likely going to skip The Wild Ones and grab early release Titania. The Wild Ones will likely sit in my drawer and never get built, while I've been eager for Titania since Nythera. It would be nice if the Mysterious Emmisary was there as well but I'm not getting my hopes up.
Something interesting about Titanias crew box. There don't appear to be any minions. The Thorn, The Claw and The Tooth are all very individual looking. I'm betting they're all Enforcers, like how Ophelia and Perditas boxes have Enforcers. I wonder if Titanias Minions will be up for early release too?
I had sort of switched away from my TT, not anymore it seems. Sorry rezzers but that is just the thing to get me back into Ten Thunders. Especially since the rezzer box seems a bit meh to me, not ugly but nothign really interesting either.
A couple preview images of actual models for A Fistful of Scrip were shown by Mason on the Wyrd Forums. Mad Dog Brackett doesn't have the giraffe neck like the render on the back of the box shows!
As nice as The Wild Ones is, $95 is too rich for me. And the issue that 's nearly impossible to expand while keeping to the crews theme unless you start looking for non-Wyrd proxies.
I'll be getting early releases of Titania, the Mysterious Emmisary, Ripples of Fate and an iconic fate deck. Also my brother wants the Shadow Emmisary and a twisted fate deck, so with a bit of shuffling I can do it in 2 orders and get us both a Miss Fire.
Historically they don't really do other alts at Gencon. That's where we get Nightmare sets, Miss models and early releases. It's not outside the realm of possibility, after all we got a Nightmare model last Black Friday and an early release at Easter, but I wouldn't count on it.
-Loki- wrote: As nice as The Wild Ones is, $95 is too rich for me.
Yeah, limited edition + plastic means you really have to raise prices to make up for the mold tooling. Still, way better than when they charged that much for some stupid trees lol.
I'll be getting these, plus something random to push to over $100. 3 random bikers/punks should be easy enough to find for wastrels (2 really since I think the alt-female Wastrel works well). Not like McCabe has a deep bench in his theme crew.
Wyrd updated their Malifaux section with information on the new masters, including the front and back of the master cards. Cards are all below, but there's more information in the masters respective pages.
Having read through a few of the cards, I want to just say - Asami is terrifying. Her attacks hit hard, she's a good support skill (giving Oni or Minions Focused +2? wow), a movement trick, a self heal, all on top of Oni summoning. Her real weakness is she's quite fragile, but you know. Something needs to balance all that.
I really, really love Titania. She's so different to other Neverborn masters. She's Resser level of durability. She's got a good heal that she doesn't need to perform herself, she just needs other models dropping Scheme markers near her, and given her other skills, that's she will be near the scheme action on the table. She's got a prompt, she can make enemies drop shcemes for her or vacuum up scheemes (prefereably enemy schemes) to give a friendly model a free push. It's nice to see such a scheme heavy master for Neverborn, which is what the faction was really lacking.
Wyrd are now doing wallpaper releases that show the Ripples of Fate units, faction by faction. They're doing it in the reverse order of the master reveals, so Gremlins first.
Also news on those awesome plastic vintage masters from a while ago. They're going to cost 5 guilders each, which is cheaper than I was expecting.
The name I saw thrown about was Sentient Slop, which... certainly suits them.
Biggest surprise is how much of them are not pirate themed. Outside of the pirate themed box, we've for a pair of Gremlin Bebops, another set of Gremlin hillbillys and a set of strange creatures.
I'm hoping the Neverborn models don't follow. I want to see some more Fae!
When could we expect these new crew boxes in stores (Europe)?
Really love these new crew boxes especially the Neverborn and then Gremlins and the Resurrectionists tied for second place.
Guild lineup. Reports of the tall, dark haired lady being Allison Dade from Through the Breach: In Defense of Innocence. Looks like new Guild/Death Marshalls and some sort of slave/captured.
I like the "Death Marshal Recruiter" (The Guild needs YOU!) on the left, and the "Witchling Thralls" seem like they could be some kind of inhumane human bomb/sacrifice thing for Criid.
Not sure on the aged Death Marshall on the right though. Could be other other in a pair of Recruiters though. Got a bit long in the tooth for active duty so he has to recruit now?
I'm hoping those zombie pistoleros are more Tormented for Jack Daw. He needs a more conventional ranged Tormented unit. Also, as someone on the official board said, it would tie in with his Curses,
Drowning Injustice - the Drowned.
Suffocating Injustice - the Hanged.
Firing Line Injustice - nothing yet. Pistoleros would fit.
Mr Morden wrote: Hoping the kneeling blonde is another "Sister" and need a couple of the journalist girls but not keen on the master (mistress?)
The kneeling blonde is one of the 3 Bandidos that comes in Parkers starter. Likely not a sister. No minions have it, even Ronin, because of how powerful it is.
It's interesting to note that both the Guild and the Arcanists seem to have a similar woman writing something down. Perhaps they're related somehow?
Perhaps an Academic/Journalist cross-faction between Arcanists and Guild?
---
Other than that, looks like Guild has Deathmarshal-ish characters for Lady Justice and imprisioned spellcaster-ish characters likely for Sonnia.
Outcasts have swordsmen probably for Misaki and undead pistolers for maybe for Jack Daw?
Arcanists have Sikh warriors unmistakably for Sandeep and the previously revealed Carlos Vasquez perhaps for Kaeris. I'm really really hoping he's a Showgirl.
Are these just "new models in that book" compilation, or are these whole new sets? I know about new crew boxes.. Is it them + some other minis in-a-box?
SnotlingPimpWagon wrote: Are these just "new models in that book" compilation, or are these whole new sets? I know about new crew boxes.. Is it them + some other minis in-a-box?
It's just showing the new models for each faction in the book.
I really like the terracotta warriors, the sage, and the swordsman on kirin(?) I don't really play 10T but I might have to pick some of them up anyways.
I guess I'm the only one not impressed with the Ten Thunders stuff. Oh, well. I'm glad they're connecting with other TT players at least. More time to spend with my piggies then.
Really like the Kirin. Not enough to start Thunders though.
But yeah, this one seems to be more mythological Asian stuff. If you wanted more samurai and ninjas and monks, then this book isn't going to be your jam.
I like the kirin too, but have a hard time seeing how its theme of defending the righteous/vengeance on the wicked sort of super-justice thing fits in with the faction of mobsters, evil monsters, and backstabbers.
Like the terra cotta soldiers. Glad we at least see something not Japanese in 10 Thunders. I wish the influence was a little more spread out, as I feel its all ninjas/samurai/oni all the time... Sort of like how Yan-Lo, a Chinese master, has an all Japanese crew.
Yeah, there's Chinese stuff floating about. Japanese mythology and history has definitely been mined more than Chinese and Korean though. Would be nice if Japan took a back seat for a book or two to let those shine.
Looking at how much is left to release in the upcoming year, and that the next book is adding 7 releases per faction, it seems Wyrd are gearing back on Malifaux releases. Even with some one off stuff like a story encounter or a Twised Alternates, we're not going to be seeing as many Malifaux releases each month.
Maybe The Other Side is coming sooner than expected? Also be nice to see some more miniature releases for Through the Breach. Nathan seems to have 'leaked' that they've done a Gremlin multipart kit. Would be nice to see the same for a Neverborn book (I know there's some Nephilim heads in the current human kits, but some full on Neverborn multiparts would be amazing) and a Thunders kit for their book, though those are obviously quite a long time coming.
Thus far I haven't been blown away with wyrd's modelling of energy so the swordsman and the corpse candles don't do much for me. the Axemen and the shield bearers look good though.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: The masked thing with the sword and spirits all over it could be an interesting model. Don't remember seeing that before. Looks rather large too.
It's a Gonryo from Under Quarantine, second model this book making its way over from Through the breach. The other is the black haired woman with the clip board and black hair in the back of the Guild stuff. She's Allison Dade from Northern Aggression.
I like how the Neverborn has a bunch of big monsters, people that look like anime villains, and then a random old prospector.that guy is so out of place.
Barzam wrote: I like how the Neverborn has a bunch of big monsters, people that look like anime villains, and then a random old prospector.that guy is so out of place.
Barzam wrote: I like how the Neverborn has a bunch of big monsters, people that look like anime villains, and then a random old prospector.that guy is so out of place.
The prospector is part of the Bandersnatch's (the spider thing) base. It's pouncing on him. It's in the art for the latest Chronicles (page 50).
Fortunately, it looks like it's very easy to build it without him, unlike the Wendigo in Rasputinas box. Wyrd have gotten better with that sort of thing - the Bayou Gators that have Gremlins in their mouths actually come with separate heads to build them without the Gremlins.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: That's interesting about the gators- the main reason I didn't buy them was due to their eating of Gremlins- I had plans for the gators elsewhere.
Good to know. Have to keep that in mind.
Well, there's 3 with Gremlins. There's 1 in the box that has a Gremlin in its mouth, and the LE Gator they just did for their most recent FLGS promo, which also has a Gremlin in its mouth. Both have alternate heads without Gremlins. Then there's the one with the gremlin balancing on its snout as it lunges out of the water. You just don't have to put the Gremlin on its nose.
That kind of model design does get weird when you start thinking about how apparently those gremlins keep balancing on the gators as they fight other things.
Not if you apply the same principle to every model. Does Lilith stay in her almost pinup pose, with her broadsword over her head, everywhere? Does the Dreamer cart that little monster around everywhere, always holding that one hand?
All miniature poses are snapshots at any one point of time. The Gators with the Gremlins are at a point when they're attacking Gremlins.
I get that some people don't like those mid-action type poses that include other models, but the argument of 'do they cart that other model everywhere' is a bit silly when you obviously don't expect, say, the Mature Nephilim to walk around in his 'come at me, bro!' pose everywhere and anywhere.
Additionally, the Bayou Gators unit are the alligators themselves. The Gremlins are just decorations to thematically tie the models in with the Gremlins faction. They don't do any of the fighting.
Neverborn take the cake, imho!
Look at those monsters *___*
The dude in the middle will have a head transplant though, if I ever lay my fingers upon a box with him in it.
I want those Neverborn fly things so hard. I meant to convert some flies looking like them when I first saw their drawings, but I totally forgot about them
The GenCon stuff is available in the webstore right now.
Bought myself the Wild Ones (loved the models), Ice Dancers (for my Raspy and Collette), and the free Miss Fire (I've always hated the silly Willie model).
Debating the Wild Ones. Something that's annoying and surely on purpose is that that's not quite enough to get Miss Fire, so I probably want to get something else to qualify...
Grabbed the Wild Ones for hobby reasons and Sparky for my gremlins. No interest in Miss Fire but my buddy is covering shippung because he has been hot for it since it was previewed. Lots of other stuff I want, but I'll hold out for retail.
Done and done. The Queen Returns, Mysterious Emmisary and Jaakuna Ubume. I can wait for the book to hit the shelves, since the shipping increase would have meant I was paying nearly $90 for a book I'll get locally for $60.
I dunno, I was trying to assemble an Austringer last night. Tiny, separate bird legs that have to connect not just to the bird but the arm too. Multiple separate bits of rope to align...
Some pre-assembly isn't necessarily a bad thing with Wyrd!
The only pre-assembled stuff I've gotten from Wyrd is PVC, which is on par with most PVC, which is to say, lame, not great assembly, covered in ugly mold lines, and not worth my time unless an excellent deal.
Absolutionis wrote:"Every model in The Other Side will come preassembled and ready for play. "
Ugh... suddenly my interest crashed
sockwithaticket wrote:I dunno, I was trying to assemble an Austringer last night. Tiny, separate bird legs that have to connect not just to the bird but the arm too. Multiple separate bits of rope to align...
Yea, my interested piqued up at preassembled, entirely because I no longer enjoy building Wyrd minis, after doing a couple dozen. I can't do TOS if it's not simplified assembly or preassembled, despite how thematic actually losing my mind building an army would be.
spiralingcadaver wrote:The only pre-assembled stuff I've gotten from Wyrd is PVC, which is on par with most PVC, which is to say, lame, not great assembly, covered in ugly mold lines, and not worth my time unless an excellent deal.
Buuuuut if the material used is garbage, then I'm back out.
I mean, I ultimately don't need another army-scale minis game, especially with AOS becoming quasi-functional and WMH MK3 having just hit. Nor do I need another game that uses card mechanics (assuming!), as I've got MFX for that.
Just something one of the staff at Wyrd mentioned on their forum - sales of pre assembled PVC models was higher than expectations in general regardless of material for both Aionus and the Twisted Alternate set. People bought loads of them. You can't blame them for repeating something that had high sales volumes.
I've got no complaints about their Twisted Alternates. Mold lines were minimal and what there was come off easily with a knife. Pre assembled means you don't need to faff about constructing the models. Detail was still up there with their other stuff. The material is still a bit bendy, but I've got no issues with it so far. I'll grab the starter for The Other Side to see if I want to deal with it for larger quantities.
I've heard from leaked rules over on /tg/ that the undead bandits are both undead and tormented keyword wise. As someone who has Jack Daw and already ordered Parker Barrows, this is great!
Rygnan wrote: I've heard from leaked rules over on /tg/ that the undead bandits are both undead and tormented keyword wise. As someone who has Jack Daw and already ordered Parker Barrows, this is great!
Rygnan wrote: I've heard from leaked rules over on /tg/ that the undead bandits are both undead and tormented keyword wise. As someone who has Jack Daw and already ordered Parker Barrows, this is great!
The NDA is finally ended now, so if anybody has questions, feel free to ask.
But yeah, they work with both crews. You get generic bandits, tormented bandits, and last blossom bandits.
What the actual feth are those Neverborn horror flies? Fae? Nightmare?
Rygnan wrote: I've heard from leaked rules over on /tg/ that the undead bandits are both undead and tormented keyword wise. As someone who has Jack Daw and already ordered Parker Barrows, this is great!
The NDA is finally ended now, so if anybody has questions, feel free to ask.
But yeah, they work with both crews. You get generic bandits, tormented bandits, and last blossom bandits.
Wait, so those three Chinese-looking swordsmen are the ones that are "Last Blossom" and "Bandit"? Or are the Last Blossom models something else?
Other quick questions:
1. Is Carlos Vasquez a "Showgirl"? Are there any other Showgirls?
2. What exactly is the "weapon" of the Guild Field Reporters? What do they do?
3. Were there any models/units that you tested that were not previewed in those faction wallpapers?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Apparently the Titania box set is out of stock online. Wow.
spiralingcadaver wrote: The only pre-assembled stuff I've gotten from Wyrd is PVC, which is on par with most PVC, which is to say, lame, not great assembly, covered in ugly mold lines, and not worth my time unless an excellent deal.
Which pieces were those? The only PVC release I was ware of was the Tortoise and Hare, and those looked pretty good from the few pics I saw.
Bossk, also aionus. And I think PVC's a perfectly reasonable medium, as long as either it's priced appropriately (cheap) like board game stuff, or done fantastically like Journey. Anywhere else, and I think it's overpriced cost-cutting trash that ruins perfectly good sculpts and takes too much work to be worth the time
Dr What- I was on playtest too, and never got a note about the NDA being modified... where'd you see that?
spiralingcadaver wrote: Bossk, also aionus. And I think PVC's a perfectly reasonable medium, as long as either it's priced appropriately (cheap) like board game stuff, or done fantastically like Journey. Anywhere else, and I think it's overpriced cost-cutting trash that ruins perfectly good sculpts and takes too much work to be worth the time
Dr What- I was on playtest too, and never got a note about the NDA being modified... where'd you see that?
A Wyrd Place/Asking Henchman, but just to be safe I'm going to reconfirm and I redacted my stuff.
spiralingcadaver wrote: Bossk, also aionus. And I think PVC's a perfectly reasonable medium, as long as either it's priced appropriately (cheap) like board game stuff, or done fantastically like Journey. Anywhere else, and I think it's overpriced cost-cutting trash that ruins perfectly good sculpts and takes too much work to be worth the time
Dr What- I was on playtest too, and never got a note about the NDA being modified... where'd you see that?
Were the details soft on those, or just a lot of mold lines/headache.
I totally agree on pricing a PVC model the same as a HIPS/resin kit is awful.
Though honestly lots of my Zombicide black plague figures have better detail than lots of my Wyrd plastics. I can remove a mold line, but nothing is going to give those Through The Breach models faces any character or their clothing actual texture.
Bossk, your standard PVC fair, soft edges that should have been sharper, areas where volume obviously shrunk more than they expected, shallow details. Not worse, but also not better, than what I'm used to. I gave it a chance since I'd always considered Wyrd to have high technical standards in most regards, but these were entirely unimpressive.
Wyrd moving to prebuilds and streamlined rules is not unexpected. They're making the game more of a boardgame, and that's a good thing, as it's a MUCH larger market.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Wyrd moving to prebuilds and streamlined rules is not unexpected. They're making the game more of a boardgame, and that's a good thing, as it's a MUCH larger market.
If you look at the sample unit card, it looks about as complex as Malifaux. Multiple stats, multiple attacks, triggers on suits, etc, including what looks like points costs. I wouldn't say it's sounding much like a board game.
They're likely doing prebuilds for two reasons - one, people will need more than a handful of models, and their HIPS plastic are hilariously complex to build with the small amount Malifaux uses, and two, their current PVC prebuilds have sold gangbusters so they're giving the buying community what they obviously want.
In Malifaux news, more information is trickling out about stuff in Ripples of Fate from people that grabbed the book at Gencon.
Those orange blob monsters on the Gremlin wallpaper are Akaname, which I had to look up. That's absolutely hilarious and really fits Gremlins. They're also dual 10T Oni. Apparently they are great at spreading poison, and can lower other models poison to drop scheme markers.
The Werepiggremlins are Swine Cursed. They have a (0) that swaps then between the Werepig and a normal Gremlin which also heals them, and have built in Glowy bonus.
Yeah, they've pushed the boundaries of board games lately. However, I'd be shocked if ToS ended up as a boardgame. It's a perfect excuse to do larger scale tabletop wargaming in the Malifaux universe.
Also, to be fair, there's boardgames now that are not prebuilt. Games Workshop boardgames come to mind, and the absurd Kingdom Death.
Back to Malifaux, someone on Facebook also spilled the beans about the undead faerie things. They're Fae Wisps, 3ss. Ability to make enemies drop friendly scheme markers (hi Titania, you wanted scheme markers). Also some ranged attacks with various effects like Slow.
Sounds like they fulfill different roles. They make enemies drop friendly schemes, which ties in with Titania wanting to bunch up. Enemies charge in, Wisps make them drop scheme markers for Titania, also healing her. Then if they don't move, they could take more damage from the scheme markers they just dropped from Thirsty Roots.
Terror Tots are super fast scheme runners, good for running off by themselves rather than staying in the group.
Apparently this was at Gencon, some WIP models.
Front and center is the 12 of Crows from the old fate deck. Nathan was asking for some suggestions for Twisted Alternates a month or so ago, and someone suggested this. He said he'd forgotten about it and 'filed it away for later'. That it's done so fast either means he fast tracked it or actually had it in the works already. Wonder what it could be.
Found this info on the RoF Guild release from Borja in the Guild Malifaux group on Facebook.
[spoiler]New guild info from WYRD forum:
NEW MODELS
Nellie is already known.
Printing Press(PeonConstruct Journalist)
probably the best Totem guild has, which is great because most of ours are situational at best. Armor 2 with 4 wounds. It's got a below average df which hurts it. It's abilities are Arcane Resevioir(same as Hannah's) and Mistep which deals minimal damage to enemies that are pushed in base with terrain and models near it. Mistep is situational but good against models like Teddy.
its melee is good at disengagin strikes and can give out slow. But it doesn't do damage unless you get its trigger. It's zero chain activates Nellie and gives her Evidence.
Phiona Gage(Henchman Living Journalist)
she is a melee beat stick. She is Living with no construct shenanigans with Hoffman sadly. But she is 6's all around with an ability that ups her Df in terrain. She is Hard to Kill, and has a really good melee that can hit multiple models or give them negatives to Wp tests. This combines well with Nellie's Wp attacks. Also if you fail a Wp test near her she gets to attack. No ranged attacks
Allison Dade(Henchman Living Journalist)
she is a long read needless to say she has really good stats and an attack with Multiple triggers. Her activation means everything for her abilities as they do different things before and after activation; one hurts enemies if they try to attack the other heals allies.
Her attack slows and can do some damage if Guardsmen are nervy. It's triggers can destroy scheme markers, do more damage, or do pushes.
the rest of her actions can reveal your opponents hand to you if they don't discard a scheme marker. Another is a condition that does damage to the target when they activate.
Reporters(Minion Living Journalist Woe)
Similar to Allison Dade they are manipulative. They also have multiple triggers in their attack and unimpeded.they have a Tactical which can destroy scheme markers and replace them with your own and Reference the field guide as a zero. The attack is complex but it auto triggers push target enemy(cannot target allies) away from it, can damage target with condition when it activates, slow, or negatives to all attack actions.
Death Marshal Recruiter(Enforcer Living Guild Marshal) Rare 2
He has an ability to stop Guild Marshals within an aura from being killed by an attack by healing them to one wound instead.(can affect leaders) it can zero to give out the Guild Marshal characteristic, non-leader only.
It can attack buried models(look out Aonus) as long as you discard a card.
It doesn't have a pine box but it does have glimpse the void on its melee.
Witchling Thrall(Living MinionWitch Hunter)
12 wound 9ss minion that has impossible to wound and auto passes horror duels. This guy has Lucius's name all over him. It's melee vs df has auto triggers depend on opponents Wp, one heals his wounds the other causes opponent to discard a card.
It's ranged attack can make a target's Wp 6 which can benefit Sonnia and models like the Thrall that get bonuses against Wp6 models, because they attack Df they don't have to worry about the boost.
There is a zero action to push him towards a friendly model but if you get a crow he has to trigger and attack.
NEW UPGRADES:
Guild Funds(Nellie)
This is probably the upgrade that would be on Nellie's card if there was room. Gives a defensive trigger to her to gain Evidence, adds more evidence tricks, and gives her the ability to claim model deaths from conditions.
Since she has a built in tome for Df this seems like a no brainier to auto include.
Embedded(Nellie)
This will be an upgrade I will never leave home without. It allows you to hire non-Ressers or Neverborn Mercs at their regular cost. And increases the limit from two Mercs to four. I've got a plan with Hans and Envy that I want to try
Well, he said should he expect Wyrds standard quality. Wyrds standard product is multipart HIPS. However, they've done 2 pre-built PVC releases. Aionous as a 10th anniversary release, which was a very early release as he was released last year but was a character from Ripples of Fate, released this gencon. And the Twisted Alternates: Tortoise and Hare, which was a story encounter with 2 PVC models.
It's a different material and product to their standard HIPS products, and if you want to see an example of what they will likely produce, at least quality-wise, for The other Side, get one of those releases and judge for yourself.
Alpharius wrote: I still find it hard to find pictures of actual WYRD models, and not just renders!
They only show renders on their boxes and official stuff. If you want to see actual plastics, gmorts chaotica is the sort of unofficial source. He shows unboxings with the sprue then the final model, and mentions and difficulties in construction. Specifically, the Tortoise and Hare set is here. He's got pretty close to everything, but for financial reasons is missing stuff.
Alpharius wrote: I still find it hard to find pictures of actual WYRD models, and not just renders!
They only show renders on their boxes and official stuff. If you want to see actual plastics, gmorts chaotica is the sort of unofficial source. He shows unboxings with the sprue then the final model, and mentions and difficulties in construction. Specifically, the Tortoise and Hare set is here. He's got pretty close to everything, but for financial reasons is missing stuff.
Is he missing stuff, or has he just not released articles for everything?
Considering the resource he provides to Wyrd, he should probably be provided with all the models.
Alpharius wrote: I still find it hard to find pictures of actual WYRD models, and not just renders!
They only show renders on their boxes and official stuff. If you want to see actual plastics, gmorts chaotica is the sort of unofficial source. He shows unboxings with the sprue then the final model, and mentions and difficulties in construction. Specifically, the Tortoise and Hare set is here. He's got pretty close to everything, but for financial reasons is missing stuff.
Is he missing stuff, or has he just not released articles for everything?
Considering the resource he provides to Wyrd, he should probably be provided with all the models.
He doesn't get them for free. He buys what he intends to play, though lately it's grown a lot. There's stuff he doesn't buy for various reasons so they don't appear in there. If you look at the bottom there's a list of stuff he says won't be going up.
Yeah, my online order got shipped Wednesday morning. Can't wait to paint up some Ice Dancers.
As an aside, the Schemes and Stones podcast seems to have finished going faction-by-faction and giving their initial reactions on the models' rules, the general way the new Masters play, and the usefulness of the other models in their respective factions:
http://schemesandstones.podbean.com/
Absolutionis wrote: Yeah, my online order got shipped Wednesday morning. Can't wait to paint up some Ice Dancers.
As an aside, the Schemes and Stones podcast seems to have finished going faction-by-faction and giving their initial reactions on the models' rules, the general way the new Masters play, and the usefulness of the other models in their respective factions:
http://schemesandstones.podbean.com/
GenCon has come and gone! A lot of our year is the build-up to GenCon, which means that you've now seen most of what we're able to show! As such, Monday Previews are going to become fewer and further between, at least for awhile. We'll keep the news coming, though, as there are plenty of things happening around Wyrd.
For now, I just have one "preview" for you -- we have commissioned the creation of a Malifaux App! If everything goes well, we are hoping for a release by the end of the year. I can't promise that, but we think it can be done. For now, though, just know that it's entering development!
Nathan said this:
Heh, before too much speculation goes on - he's talking crew, cards, tournament app, with some other goodies thrown in. Not a full on 'play Malifaux online' game. Though truth be known, we've been tossing that about as well ..
Cards are not going away, but a supplemental app for the game. Possibly something like Warroom for warmachine?
Not sure if it's been mentioned, but they will be running a Kickstarter for The Other Side to help err, kickstart the Allegiances (aka, factions). Its initially slated with 2 (the Kings Empire and the aquatic Gibbering Horde), but the other 2 mentioned are Cult of the Burning Man and the African nation of Abyssinia. I can only assume they learned some lessons from Through the Breach, as that was a mess of a campaign.
I don't understand why The Other Side won't be Malifaux-compatible. It seems to me that this should be a Warmachine / Hordes situation, in which the forces would be 100% gameplay compatible against one another.
JohnHwangDD wrote: I don't understand why The Other Side won't be Malifaux-compatible. It seems to me that this should be a Warmachine / Hordes situation, in which the forces would be 100% gameplay compatible against one another.
From the flyer I got, its an issue of scale, a skirmish vs. battallion level wargame. The grunt units in Malifaux are single guys, the "grunt" level in The Other Side appears squads and multibased fire teams. Your commanders give marching orders and set up larger scale battle plans than just engaging in the equivalent of the shootout in the OK Corral. It's set around the time of WW1 (the back of the flyer has a doughboy fighting a silurid). So it makes sense to design the rules to take advantage of the scale, rather than the GW method of MOAR DICE!
I imagine some of the champions will eventually get crossover cards though.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Another Wyrd- run campaign makes me... hesitantly curious? I didn't back through the breach, but I certainly watched it and all that became of it.
Well, fortunately the guy who mismanaged the first one is gone as far as I know, and Aaron seems to have a tighter handle on things.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Another Wyrd- run campaign makes me... hesitantly curious? I didn't back through the breach, but I certainly watched it and all that became of it.
To be fair, it's a different situation that Through the Breach had. TtB was basically 'we have a neat idea for a Malifaux RPG'. They got the backing then started development on it. They've been showing test prints and renders for The Other Side sporadically for about a year now, and asked for the public to sign up for a closed beta test about that long ago as well. That tells me the game has been in active development for quite some time, as well as miniatures at least being in the testing phase.
My guess when the kickstarter rolls around is that it's going to be pretty close to production ready.
Preassembled makes PVC my biggest concern. I can expect Wyrd to make a pretty mechanically sound, overly complex game, but material and pricing will be #1. #2 concern is support, since IIRC TTB is the only non-Mali wyrd product that's seen substantial support after launch.
If they're launching a battalion level wargame, I'd guess there's plans for substantial support there.
In fact, I have a hunch that's how they plan to make more substantial releases per month as a company, and was the driving force behind getting caught up on Malifaux releases. By Gencon next year, everything for Malifaux will be released, since there's just not much left to release and we've got a full year ahead of us. That means by book 5, they won't have much at all, maybe 6 months releases for Malifaux.
That gives them room to do releases for both Malifaux and The other Side while spacing the releases for each game out a bit more.
There's also plenty of opportunity for crossovers.
TOS is in the same universe ...or... multiverse as Malifaux. Just like some Malifaux products like Crossroads Seven have had Malifaux and TTB rules, TOS could have some models with both.
Divergent Path Event - approximately 2 month narrative world event that would effect the abilities of the three characters below when they are released. Which faction wins the most story encounters per character determines which faction that model will belonged to in the future. http://www.wyrd-games.net/divergent-paths
Divergant Paths campaign seems to be going nicely. Each of the characters has been claimed the first week by a faction. Neverborn grabbed the girl, Ressurectionists grabbed the woman and Arcanists grabbed the guy. There's a downloadable pack with a writeup for what's happened to each of them so far. Abridged versions:
Spoiler:
Girl was chased by Witchling Stalkers and a Teddy came out to protect her but died defending her. The Widow Weaver took pity on the girl and taught her how to save it, and she now has a little Wicked Doll sized Teddy.
The woman was chased down by Guild Guard and shot through the heart. McMourning resurrected her and due to her remarkable retention of her cognitive abilities he is keeping her as his new assistant, since Sebastian keeps fobbing off doing his own thing.
The man was cursed by Marcus and is a Werewolf.
The writeups also have a quick version of what will happen to each of them depending on which faction grabs them next.
Also Chronicles 26 is out. October promotion is alternate Francisco for spending $60 at an FLGS. That's a rather nice reward, since he usually goes for $40-$50us.
Yeah, I'm disappointed too. I feel their earlier special editions of Aionius and the Tortoise&Hare were experiments in pre-built miniatures. They're not bad, but I feel like I'm overly critical because I can do better. That being said, it'll increase accessibility to the game.
Mid-december Kickstarter is also a terrible terrible idea for not only Christmas but because it'll overlap with Kingdom Death which is set to be one of the biggest board game / miniatures game kickstarters of all time.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: If it's all prebuilt, then I expect the prices to reflect board game style pieces.
I'm sure they won't.
The quality of the PVC miniatures is well above board game quality. Not up there with HIPS or metal/resin, but still better than board game peices. I'm guessing the prices will be lower than Malifaux, but not that low.
I don't know if I'd get into the game but as usual, the art and style of the models will surely sucker me into a few purchases..
..and maybe the KS. But as Absolutionis said, the timing of the KS is super awful. Woe betide and KS that runs alongside KD or ends right before the KD Pledge Manager goes up.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: The Gibbering Hordes could probably find a lot of uses outside of this as well. Everyone loves giant monsters!
Amen! Totes my faction of choice already, though all of them have their attractions.
The most exciting part of this for me is still that Wyrd is making it. As a rules set I have a lot of respect for MFX but often want more carnage / a touch less complexity, which I'm assuming TOS is all about. Curious to see it going to KS, going to be a struggle to not jump in, despite swearing off doing another mini-based KS
I'm already planning going as deep as possible on Gibbering Hordes. Not a big fan of the Kings Empire, but Gibbering Hordes seem to be channelling Tyranids in the right ways, but seem to still be giving them individual personality.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: If it's all prebuilt, then I expect the prices to reflect board game style pieces.
I'm sure they won't.
The quality of the PVC miniatures is well above board game quality. Not up there with HIPS or metal/resin, but still better than board game peices. I'm guessing the prices will be lower than Malifaux, but not that low.
Given the advances we've seen in PVC with the likes of Blood Rage, Black Plague and Conan, I'm not entirely convinced HIPS is always superior. The lack of undercuts and shallow detail are consistent weaknesses in Wyrd's minis you have to hide with painting tricks to add shadows, cloth folds, etc that arent there. Plus everything is just so smooth.
Bossk_Hogg wrote: Given the advances we've seen in PVC with the likes of Blood Rage, Black Plague and Conan, I'm not entirely convinced HIPS is always superior.
Given the PVC I've seen come from Wyrd, I'm pretty unconvinced that it's anything better than, say, Recic Knights, WM/H overpriced board game material. Unless that price is great, I'm probably passing.
Was the newer dead zone stuff a significant improvement over the original stuff? I hated the stuff I got with the KS the detailing was soft as...something...and the model lines were the worst I have ever had to deal with. I ended up binning it.
And years of PP''s pvc has only cemented my hatred for it.
The material is my only concern about this KS. I love Wyrd''s art style, the background sounds interesting as does the multi-basing of units, etc.
Depending on the pricing scheme, I can see myself getting a decent a,ount of those models just to paint up. Hope the detail stays, some of that stuff is great.
We haven't seem much in the way of variety between sculpts, so I hope that each 'regiment' eon't be a blob of clones.
Ernster wrote: This looks Fantastic. I like all of the Factions. I wish they released the KS after Christmas.
So many people are saying that, and I agree.
Maybe the continued success of KD:M 1.5 will make Wyrd think twice. Alternatively, they could just release the kickstarter anyways and watch it do so-so like TTB.
Breotan wrote: I'll give it a look but given the way the previous KS was run, I make no promises.
Different situation. Through the Breach was basically 'we have a neat idea, help us fund it'. Then they started development after the kickstarter, with all the pitfalls associated with developing something new. Consider that The Other Side has been in closed public testing coming up on a year now (which means actual development would have starter long before that), they've been showing final prints of miniatures for a few months and even had some last gencon and they're showing what seems to be finalised stat cards and art, this seems more of a 'we have a finished product, help us find the initial production'.
Really like what I'm seeing in that video... I'm not liking the fact the game is played on a 6x4 table though, I don't have a table that large and not sure I really want to invest into one for just 1 game... hmm.
I'm glad it's not just me who is put off by the 6x4 table.
That, along with the idea of unit trays, are enough to put me off the KS at least. I'm willing to sit back and wait to see if the game can be scaled down to a 4x4 space.
My guess is game size will determine board size. 40k recommends a 6x4 table, but playing a 1000pt or less game on it can feel really sparse. Playing those games on a 4x4 feel a lot better.
We'll have to see what the rules are. The Mantic Warpath KS was originally intended for massed 25mm battles on 6x4 tables, but enough people wanted smaller model counts and no unit bases that they relented. but the rules weren't flexible enough, so had to make a seperate ruleset.
Breotan wrote: I'll give it a look but given the way the previous KS was run, I make no promises.
Different situation. Through the Breach was basically 'we have a neat idea, help us fund it'. Then they started development after the kickstarter, with all the pitfalls associated with developing something new.
No, lack of development wasn't the issue. Wyrd ran a truly bizarre Kickstarter campaign. The ineptitude of Mike & Co. was comical in a train wreck kind of way. I can't find the original KS thread we had on Dakka but here's a link to the postmortem that covers some of what happened (it's still not the same as being there). I guess the comments on the original Kickstater are a better record of what was going on.
Breotan wrote: I'll give it a look but given the way the previous KS was run, I make no promises.
Different situation. Through the Breach was basically 'we have a neat idea, help us fund it'. Then they started development after the kickstarter, with all the pitfalls associated with developing something new.
No, lack of development wasn't the issue. Wyrd ran a truly bizarre Kickstarter campaign. The ineptitude of Mike & Co. was comical in a train wreck kind of way. I can't find the original KS thread we had on Dakka but here's a link to the postmortem that covers some of what happened (it's still not the same as being there). I guess the comments on the original Kickstater are a better record of what was going on.
The guy who ran it was Mac, who was kind of a flake but from my understanding is no longer with the company. The reward structure was just the worst on that one, with no add ons and the hardbacks mutually exclusive from the minis unless you got the top tier pledge. But the top tier pledge had extra copies of books you didnt need, the stupid doll, etc jacking up its price.
I have confidence Aaron will run this one better.
I'll be picking up the cult of the burning man - the mutations seem similar to the effects of Brilliance, and Jacob Lynch is my boy. Might also get some gibbering hordes. I'm always a sucker for the "monster" factions.
I hope as this gets sooner to launch or details begin to emerge as to what sort of pricing/ pledge structure this is going to have, some of you helpful folks could let the rest of us know what to expect.
I'm not sure we can help you on what to expect. I think we're all in the same boat until the KS actually launches.
I suspect that there will be some pledge level for upcoming books and possibly some LE figures being tossed in as stretch goals. Will there be another rag doll? I guess that depends on how popular they thought the last one was.
I've no idea if they'll make a miniatures-centric pledge branch like they did before. It's even possible they'll do a tie-in to The Other Side.
Breotan wrote: I'm not sure we can help you on what to expect. I think we're all in the same boat until the KS actually launches.
I suspect that there will be some pledge level for upcoming books and possibly some LE figures being tossed in as stretch goals. Will there be another rag doll? I guess that depends on how popular they thought the last one was.
I've no idea if they'll make a miniatures-centric pledge branch like they did before. It's even possible they'll do a tie-in to The Other Side.
Umm... this kickstarter is for The Other Side. So I'm sure we'll see plenty of miniatures for it. They might even tie it in to The Other Side!
-Loki- wrote: Umm... this kickstarter is for The Other Side. So I'm sure we'll see plenty of miniatures for it. They might even tie it in to The Other Side!
My bad. I was thinking Through The Breach for some reason.
Also, if you've been curious about Through the Breach, Bundle of Holding have a deal right now. $15us gets you the Fated Almanac, Fatemasters Almanac and 4 Penny Dreadfuls (their version of little 1 off predone adventures). $28.59us also gets you Into the Steam (the Arcanists expansion), Under Quarantine (the Resserectionists expansion), Northern Aggression and A Night in Rottenberg (full campaigns).
They're all DRM free PDFs, so you can share them around as well. Pretty tremendous value there.
Good video, but did anyone else get a chuckle out of the table setup at 2 mins in, given Wyrd has always stressed the importance of terrain?Just just a pure funnel into the other deployment zone!
Bossk_Hogg wrote: Good video, but did anyone else get a chuckle out of the table setup at 2 mins in, given Wyrd has always stressed the importance of terrain?Just just a pure funnel into the other deployment zone!
They said at the start of the previews that this a terrain-light game. But yeah a straight line at each other like that is kinda wonky hopefully that was just to showcase the armies
.Mikes. wrote: That rendered table was actually the only thing I liked the look of in the video (well, along with the titan with the union flag on its fist).
One thing I like about steampunk games is their urban settings. But yeah, I understand what you mean about what it would do the play.
Anyone else wondering why they were facing down the length of the table and not across it?
Probably the same reason Games Workshop used to have 'combat' displays with Devastators within 5" of another squad. The rendered table was likely done in that configuration to look cool. It had impassable terrain covering about 1/3 of the table. That's Malifaux levels of terrain, not the 'light terrain' they are saying TOS uses.
I really like the 3-man unit sizes as a way to keep costs/painting time down. I've long felt like WM/H missed a trick by going with 10 man units. 3 man (leaving room for an attachment or two) is the ideal setup IMO.
Weird though that Wyrd uses HIPS for it's small-scale skirmish games and then switches to a cheaper plastic for it's large scale skirmish game, where you'd conceivably be a lot more likely to buy multiples of things. I get it's likely to keep costs/risks down on a new venture that might fail, but if they had stayed HIPS it'd have been much more likely to really attract attention. Also too bad they are overlapping with KD:M. Will suck up a lot of their oxygen.
odinfellhammer wrote: I really wished this was 15mm, then it would work on a 4×4 table
Then crossovers between Malifaux and TOS wouldn't be possible. At least this way, we could have some crossovers. Even the RPG, TTB, has some models that can be used in Malifaux.
Core sets seem to be an okay deal if a high price point; expansion units are really pricey for PVC- that killed my interest in WM, and is enough that I'd be dubious of this.
Similar to the previous kickstarter, Wyrd doesn't really seem to be offering any great deals with this one. The fact that there are literal analogues between the factions of each category of unit smells heavily of the Spartan Games method of copy+paste and forget.
This project is definitely not for me, but I always hope for Wyrd to have success, so I hope this overcomes some of the hurdles it's facing (like KD:M competition, the PVC models, etc). The best case scenario, for me, is that this is a hit and they make a ton of money, and that they also slow down Malifaux expansion so that m2e can last a few extra years before they have to go to a 3rd edition.
Man... right now this is an awful value proposition. I wonder if they realize that "hey we make Malifaux and some of you like that" isn't enough to break into the most crowded sector of the mini-wargaming market.
Between 40k, a revitalizing AoS, Warmahordes, etc... you need to do something incredibly new, or be a hell of a deal, and at a glance, this seems like little of either.
I'm rooting for these guys, but I think they would be much better served building Malifaux's player-base and market penetration before this move.
I'm honestly wondering why people don't think this KS isn't good value. As it stands $100US will net you 28 infantry minis, which work out at less than $4 a figure before you factor in getting a hardbook rulebook, fate deck and counters to boot.
Those stretch goals are sad. One thing I've learned from backing a lot of campaigns at this point is that you use that first day to really drive up the pledge value by making the deal a sweet one to start with. While the initial offerings aren't terrible, they aren't anywhere near as enticing as what a lot of other Kickstarter veteran companies offer up.
It's not like this is Wyrd's first time at the show either.
Are they really selling these PVC titans at 75$ US a piece !!!!!! Game seems interesting but these prices are worrying. ANd did anyone ever bought some PVC from Wyrd? If so, how is the qulaity. Going by the pic, the minis seem really good but I'd like a rea perspective before pledging.
PVC as a material has certainly come a long way from the Relic Knight days. Apparently this is going to be completely preassembled as well, which is interesting. Wyrd's test model for the material (Aionus) turned out pretty well, but its also a Dali melting clock design that makes good use of PVC problems. I'm not sure if this game is my thing yet, but I'm hopeful between this and Guild Ball, we might be seeing PVC come into its own.
Watching the gameplay view, it seems pretty close to Malifaux in terms of howthings are resolved. They've shaved some stats off and added some complexities to how duels are resolved though. I like how it appears to work.
The commander system is interesting. I haven't seen a game balanced in that way before. Players decide on how many commanders to use, then select factions, then see the mission objective, then select commanders and commanders bring a certain amount of points with them.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
LunarSol wrote: PVC as a material has certainly come a long way from the Relic Knight days. Apparently this is going to be completely preassembled as well, which is interesting. Wyrd's test model for the material (Aionus) turned out pretty well, but its also a Dali melting clock design that makes good use of PVC problems. I'm not sure if this game is my thing yet, but I'm hopeful between this and Guild Ball, we might be seeing PVC come into its own.
They also did the Tortoise and Hare set in the material. I rather like them.
Prices are higher than I expected, but I'm willing to gamble that the required amount of models is still fairly low, which is my main issue with GW pricing.
.Mikes. wrote: I'm honestly wondering why people don't think this KS isn't good value. As it stands $100US will net you 28 infantry minis, which work out at less than $4 a figure before you factor in getting a hardbook rulebook, fate deck and counters to boot.
Breotan wrote: Let's see what they mean when they say "plastic".
...custom blend of PVC...
Aaaaaaaand I'm out. To those of you pledging, I wish you the best and hope this turns out well for you.
Yeah, like PP and Soda Pop, Wyrd is offering PVC for more than it's worth.
streetsamurai wrote: Are they really selling these PVC titans at 75$ US a piece !!!!!! Game seems interesting but these prices are worrying. ANd did anyone ever bought some PVC from Wyrd? If so, how is the qulaity. Going by the pic, the minis seem really good but I'd like a rea perspective before pledging.
I got the Tortoise and Hare set, too. The detail was very good, although I think Malifaux's cartoony art style helped on that front. The tortoise's sword and belt/ribbons were a little bent, but I expect that some hot water will fix them. Be warned that the material is far harder than HIPS, and any mold lines absolutely must be cleaned off with a knife. Files just scratch the material.
.Mikes. wrote: I'm honestly wondering why people don't think this KS isn't good value. As it stands $100US will net you 28 infantry minis, which work out at less than $4 a figure before you factor in getting a hardbook rulebook, fate deck and counters to boot.
Allegiance box is $125, titan is $90, rule book is $60. Total value is $275 for $160, roughly 42% off, better than you'll get online, which seems to cap around 30%. The real question is whether the PVC figures are worth that, or if saving an extra 10% a year+ in advance is worth it. Have they said who the manufacturer is? Their artists are going to have to account for shrinkage in a way they don't for HIPS, and even there I feel the faces tend to have weak detail due to being more truescale and not exaggerated.
.Mikes. wrote: I'm honestly wondering why people don't think this KS isn't good value. As it stands $100US will net you 28 infantry minis, which work out at less than $4 a figure before you factor in getting a hardbook rulebook, fate deck and counters to boot.
Allegiance box is $125, titan is $90, rule book is $60. Total value is $275 for $160, roughly 42% off, better than you'll get online, which seems to cap around 30%. The real question is whether the PVC figures are worth that, or if saving an extra 10% a year+ in advance is worth it. Have they said who the manufacturer is? Their artists are going to have to account for shrinkage in a way they don't for HIPS, and even there I feel the faces tend to have weak detail due to being more truescale and not exaggerated.
They've got 2 sets at retail in the material. Barring improvments made since those you can already see what the quality will be, and their artists obviously have some experience in the material having a couple of kits out already.
Whether PVC is worth it, well, that's all down to personal preference. Having handled their previous PVC attempts, I'm happy enough with the kickstarter prices. But I'm not a fan of the retail prices. Given I already have 2, potentially 3 opponents buying in, I feel an Allegiance set + titan is worth the buy in. Especially since the titan is 30% off in the commander bundle. I doubt I'll get any add ons unless they manage to unlock The Frenzy, since I love me some land sharks, since the add on prices seem to be about RRP with online discount that you'll find everywhere.
Honestly, the Allegiance set against the add ons does feel like GW pricing. The Allegiance set comes with a lot (three squads and commander already add up to more than buying those squads retail) and includes a rulebook, fate deck and tokens for a pretty bargan price compared to the add ons which are fairly pricey. Looking at GW's 'start collecting' sets and then the prices of stuff outside of them, there's a clear comparison. However, the size of GW games means you'll want multiples of those bundles, and multiples of other units outside of them. As long as Wyrd keep the model count down and dont encourage buying repeat units, the only pricing I have issue with is the Titans which seem really high.
Ended up backing at the Commander level for the Gibbering Hordes stuff. Bonus that I know of 3 othr people, possible 5 or more, that are already backing and regular at my FLGS, so I know I'll be able to get games right away which is good.
Do all the math needed, but for the material its super over coasted. More expensive then some of GWs products by a good bit.
CMON, Soda Pop. They use the same material. They also product a ton of minis for a solid price. Way cheaper then this.
This seems more money grab then anything.
The stretch goals are also poop.
Big pass on me.
The problem with those is it's hard for retailers to carry the game after a campaign like that. When there's so many kickstarter exclusives, it creates an air of getting a lesser product at retail. When they're not kickstarter exclusive but general release, people tend to back at higher levels which gives them a lot of stuff at a discount to sell on the secondary market which costs retailers sales, especially sicne they often hit the secondary market before retailers get their stock. This isn't a big box one and done game, it's an ongoing supported main line game. Killing your retail potential with a too generous kickstarter might get you a lot of initial money, but you'll lose out when it's on the shelves.
.Mikes. wrote: Does anyone have a link to explain the pros and cons of PVC models?
PVC is a softer plastic that doesn't hold detail as well as Polystyrene or Resin.
It's gotten a lot better since the dark Relic Knights days. Black Plagues models were very well detailed and used PVC, as are Wyrds current PVC offerings of Aionus and the Tortoise and Hare.
PVC is cheaper to manufacture and allows for substantial undercuts in molds.
But it's a complete pain to clean because it's bendy, and unless you're one of the 2 or so companies who know what they're doing with the material, the detail is generally trashed by shrinkage. I've heard good things about CMON, and have experienced Journey Wrath of Demons, and PVC can be good, but I generally hate the stuff, and won't approach it unless the price is right and/or the model is so fantastic I'll tolerate the material.
That's fair enough. I was just trying to point out the technology around casting material itself has gotten much better, and Wyrds test forays into the material are rather good. So if they've improved beyond that, well, I think the detail will be fine. PVC gets a bum deal because early kickstarters using it were pretty crap, and some receont ones haven't been so hot either. I trust Wyrd to get it right.
Cleanup is still an issue, but then I find it easier to clean than metal models. Corvus Bellis latest offerings have been pretty bad to clean up, but I tolerated it because I liked the models.
A $100 buy in for a game seems pretty standard, I'm surprised people aren't finding this a good deal. It's a full, playable force for $100, and it's a company sized game, that's pretty good. I'm still not sure if I'm going to back as I am currently playing too many games, but I can see splitting the two commander level with someone and playing some small games before buying in further.
And I've just about finished up my Deadzone stuff so my queue is opening up (though still have that MEdge box staring at me).
Folks like myself who have dealt with PP''s PVC or the Deadzone''s original KS stuff are often leery of the stuff.
I mean I love PP but their PVC kits are damnd annoying to clean up. Their new hard plastic kits are a dream...but they seem few and far between.
Wyrd changed their entire range over to hard plastic and I think it generally well received.
I dunno....I love the art work but having looked at the KS it isn't grabbing me enough to back it - I have a limited gaming budget at the moment. The prices are a little higher than I was expecting for PVC but the models are preassembled...surely that negates the cheaper material?
FWIW, Steamforge just released their 2P starter in the material with 12 figures (14 if you REALLY want to include the ball) for $70. That's quite a bit more per model. Might be overcharging or it might be that quality PVC costs more. No real way to tell at this point, though the GB set does have more unique sculpts which is generally more important than number of models.
.Mikes. wrote: Does anyone have a link to explain the pros and cons of PVC models?
The material shrinks as it cools, so it tends to produce softer details and if you're not aware of this when you create the render, you're quite likely to have detail mush together and get lost completely. On the pro side, the molds themselves are a lot closer to how metal molds work in regards to undercuts, letting you make parts that don't have to be strictly 2D. If you've worked with any trench coats or billowing capes you've probably seen this in action. These kinds of things are kind of a nightmare in HIPs in my experience.
I like the hordes a lot! But PVC, pre-built and duplicate sculpts kind of ruin it for me... Yeah, yeah PVC got better, but I won't buy it, until I hold a miniature in my hand. The fact they use renders instead of miniatures in so many showcases is sad.
Haven't played enough of malifaux yet to need ToS really So I might join in the fun, when the game hits retail.
100$ seems pretty standard or very close to it, IMHO, so I don't see the price as an atrocious one. X-wing is as is/more expensive, pre-painted and very hard to customize, but people don't find it a rip-off..
I think the other side minis look great and I'm sure it'll be a cool game but it feels a little pricy to me right now. Maybe in the end it will be better deal. I'll probably jump in once I get my xmas bonus though.
One thing I really like are the 3-model display bases/movement tray thingies. I think I may have to steal that idea one day...
SnotlingPimpWagon wrote: I like the hordes a lot! But PVC, pre-built and duplicate sculpts kind of ruin it for me... Yeah, yeah PVC got better, but I won't buy it, until I hold a miniature in my hand. The fact they use renders instead of miniatures in so many showcases is sad.
Haven't played enough of malifaux yet to need ToS really So I might join in the fun, when the game hits retail.
100$ seems pretty standard or very close to it, IMHO, so I don't see the price as an atrocious one. X-wing is as is/more expensive, pre-painted and very hard to customize, but people don't find it a rip-off..
Because its pre painted. Its far more attractive to the average consumer to buy a game with miniatures where you A don't use a tape measurer, and B don't have to built or paint a single thing. So yes their prices are good.
100$ standard is more like 100$ standard for TWO players in todays market. That's what the common buy in for a minis game is. If this game had a 2 player starter for 100$ they would already have my money. It being a 200$ starter for 2 players (and again at Christmas time is super stupid of them) is not worth it.
All of their prices listed I can get when it hits retail. 125$ retail price = 100$ price at miniature market and the war store. Me backing this gives me hardly a bonus. Soft cover to hard cover? I prefer soft cover actually.
I will play it at next years Gen Con, and I may like it, but no way still am I backing this unless they give more free squads to drive the cost per mini down.
.Mikes. wrote: I'm honestly wondering why people don't think this KS isn't good value. As it stands $100US will net you 28 infantry minis, which work out at less than $4 a figure before you factor in getting a hardbook rulebook, fate deck and counters to boot.
Allegiance box is $125, titan is $90, rule book is $60. Total value is $275 for $160, roughly 42% off, better than you'll get online, which seems to cap around 30%.
I appreciate the cost breakdown. At first blush I was really turned off by the buy-in ... but I suppose the asking prices make more sense than I was giving them credit for.
The real question is whether the PVC figures are worth that, or if saving an extra 10% a year+ in advance is worth it.
Aye. For me it's a combination of concerns over the material, little desire to play another army-scale game (or another mini game in general) right now, and burnout from a year of going heavy on KS miniature campaigns.
All that said, TOS has more of my interest than MFX currently does (which I've been playing for going on two years now), with the fewer named characters and larger-scale conflict (even if that's a double-edged sword when it comes to buying/painting things ). Ultimately I think I'll sit the KS out, focus on KOW until TOS hits the shelves, then throw cash at the LGS once the game/minis have been vetted
Looking at it more, I guess a big rulebook + 19 minis isn't bad for a $99 pledge, but you don't get any freebies with that level. So you add in a titan model for $61 more to get bonus items? Seems kinda high but I guess that's to cover the freebies. And then $300 to get 2 starters, 2 titans and 2 rulebooks seems kinda silly. I would have liked to see a 2 player starter pledge.. 1 rulebook & 2 starter / allegiance boxes.
Also kinda on the fence cuz I was looking forward to Runewars from Fantasy Flight.. don't think I can invest in 2 different big army games right now and I was saving for that one.
The freebies/ stretches should be enticing though. They aren't. 25k goals for things that are going to be done anyways (like the online cards) aren't all that substantial of goals.
And the tangible rewards so far- a shirt? A patch? Yet another fate deck?
I'd like to see a few new models added to each faction at least.
Necros wrote: Looking at it more, I guess a big rulebook + 19 minis isn't bad for a $99 pledge, but you don't get any freebies with that level. So you add in a titan model for $61 more to get bonus items? Seems kinda high but I guess that's to cover the freebies. And then $300 to get 2 starters, 2 titans and 2 rulebooks seems kinda silly. I would have liked to see a 2 player starter pledge.. 1 rulebook & 2 starter / allegiance boxes.
Also kinda on the fence cuz I was looking forward to Runewars from Fantasy Flight.. don't think I can invest in 2 different big army games right now and I was saving for that one.
Also this.
Runewars is set to be Jan/Feb. After playing that at Gencon, that will be my new game purchase getting heavily into RW.
Maybe they will add more or a 2 player set, but I doubt it.
Yeah, my issue is that the expansions are so expensive for what they are that, unless I was getting a starter to just have as a standalone, I wouldn't be getting it, and the starter 2-pack is so expensive at the moment, that I couldn't justify getting that as a standalone.
IDK, maybe something will change and their deals will become awesome, but not seeing it.
I think there is a certain level of expectation for Kickstarters these days:
My own are (once they have got my interest with pretty pics and renders)
I expect there to be freebies and exclusives.
I expect it to be late (and won't complain if it is)
I expect retail to get it first (even if the KS says otherwise) and won't complain if it is.
Unless its a small company I want to support I tend to need something to make it worth the bother of doing the kick starter, otherwise I might as well wait, get it retail discount with free postage.
Looking at this one it does not really fulfil the above so will keep an eye on it and see what happens but otherwise wait till retail
(Burning guys get less because I assume the models they have in one unit are bigger and so 2 to a base?)
Even so I do agree the price is offputting.
Burning guys do get the benefit of having 9 unique sculpts for their grunts vs 5 for everyone else. On the other hand, having them all be clearly unique individuals rather than uniformed grunts or faceless horde monsters is a bit of a drawback, since it looks like they want you to field multiple groups of those.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: The freebies/ stretches should be enticing though. They aren't. 25k goals for things that are going to be done anyways (like the online cards) aren't all that substantial of goals.
And the tangible rewards so far- a shirt? A patch? Yet another fate deck?
I'd like to see a few new models added to each faction at least.
The meh stretch goals may be a factor of the seemingly artificially low funding goal of $75k for 40+ new sculpts (4 of them big guys). But effectively 3 units per side with no choice of commanders does make the game look very limited when you compare it to Warmachine (which also has a lower entry point). Seeing new troop options add ons and some exclusive models would get the total moving more.
Edit - just saw they have a stretch goal for commanders and some add-ons I cant seem to find info on. So a step in the right direction.
Assuming the tiers are designed with the stretch goals in mind, examining what is gotten now is sensible, but presumably a more accurate sense of 'value' will only be available in the final days.
I mean, I get it. People need to look at this and say "yeah, I'll give you my $100/$200/$300+ for that", and then the deal gets better and everyone is happier.
But they have to basically ask for people to contribute *now* (at a worse value) in order to justify the final boxes *later* (at a better value), unless their business model is wonky as hell.
It's kind of a backwards thing about Kickstarter; you have to convince enough people that your gakky deal is good enough to get to the awesome one later (if it exists, of course).
If the tiers were priced strictly to provide a good deal as it is without anything else added in, then paying for the extra bits becomes unwieldy.
Jacksmiles wrote: They've reworked the current stretch goals map, didn't change anything already unlocked but the next 3 goal levels now all include models.
Unfortunately the first two are just add-ons rather than free models so can't see that much help at drawing people in, only the final one is a freebie (alternate commander for each faction. although the gibbering horde appears to have 3 models, possibly all same sculpt?).
Jacksmiles wrote: They've reworked the current stretch goals map, didn't change anything already unlocked but the next 3 goal levels now all include models.
Unfortunately the first two are just add-ons rather than free models so can't see that much help at drawing people in, only the final one is a freebie (alternate commander for each faction).
I agree, but if they continue with a model inclusion at each stretch goal, we'll get to more freebies faster, but that's an "if" that I'm just hopeful will continue. At least it shows they're actively listening to the comments, if nothing else. I do wish there were more visible freebies though, or that the first freebies weren't at the 300% mark.
Part of me just wants to get a bunch of random sculpts to mess with, but the add on prices certainly aren't conducive to random impulse add ons currently.
I really don't know how many of those PVC units they're going to be able to move at retail at 45 dollars either.
Wrath of Kings is made in a similar material, and that line has seen plenty of mark downs already, and they've been putting out new units since the Kickstarter too. I dunno.
I find the posing of the Titans a bit static, but that's just me. Not liking that Horde Titan's pose especially, which is frustrating as that's the faction I really want.
Of course once the Abyssinia mechanized infantry show up that may change.
PurpleEcho wrote: Don't you find the Titans to be really underwhelming? there's such a lack of detail. Bland!
The painted titans are the original test prints. You can tell because the poses have changed a bit - watch the allegiances video. They probably had them painted a while ago while working on the material.
Two Malifaux figures were made with PVC and were not sold in LFGS stores as far as I know. All other Malifaux figures are all made with polystyrene and come unassembled on sprues like GW's models do. They're not quite at the detail that GW's achieved but they're still very high quality. Wyrd uses the same company that Poots uses to make his Kingdom Death kits.
PurpleEcho wrote: Don't you find the Titans to be really underwhelming? there's such a lack of detail. Bland!
Not bland, but I think they're missing out on the kind of character a faction/range gets only when it's been livign and breathing for a while. But then again I feel about half of the WMH cols/gargs suffer from the same, and the new ones comign out have greatly improved due to the time between releases.
I'm still greatly interested in ToS. My onyl real misgivings are the fire team bases seem clunky and obtrusive into the esthetic on the table, and the speed at which it looks possible to cross the table, although taht was based ona single rules demo video.
Having said taht I'll probably wait until retail. The game is funded, and in the meantime I can spend the money to familiarise myself with malifaux.
spiralingcadaver wrote: Breotan, yeah, I was referring to those 2 sets, and at least aionus was at my FLGS. Wouldn't be griping about price value if they were in their HIPS.
I thought the KS implied they were using the same PVC as those 2.
They posted an update about the PVC they're using for TOS. It's a different mix I guess (I don't know anything about PVC), like they've upgraded the quality. I can't get on kickstarter from work to post the exact wording but reading that update may give you more insight.
Hey everyone,
We wanted to take a minute to talk about our models. We know there has been some concern over PVC, etc, and we wanted to do what we could to provide you with more information.
PVC is a type of plastic, but it doesn't come only one way. PVC is actually a very large spectrum of plastic, and the quality of PVC depends greatly on where you are on that spectrum. Many of you probably have experience with some of the cheap PVC, and we're sure some of you have been very happy with some PVC in the past.
When we talk about using PVC in this project, we are talking about using the best PVC we could get our hands on. We put resources into the material, and we're actually using a custom PVC blend in order to increase the quality to the highest point we can get it. This is night and day compared to low quality PVC. We love miniatures, and we did not skimp on these... but it also means that the PVC is expensive.
What's more, we are using a different type of tooling than PVC normally uses. Most of the time, people are getting iron molds that press together, created from rapid prototyping of the models. In our case, we've gone directly from sculpt to mold, allowing us to avoid losing anything in translation. We are also not using the standard iron molds -- we are using a new type of mold that should give us better quality from the mold alone.
Improved molding and custom blends of PVC have led us to develop miniatures we are very happy with. They have some flexibility to stand up to wear and tear (no problem putting them in cases!), but they are also rigid for painting and detail.
We understand that everyone has different experiences with miniatures and PVC specifically, so we encourage you to make up your own minds. We have provided some videos looking at prototype models. When we get production models in (which will be during the Kickstarter), we will show them off. We will also send them to a variety of reviewers so they can weigh in with their thoughts.
We have put a lot of resources and dedication into making these miniatures the best that we can. We hope that you'll get them and love them yourself. Hopefully this helps you make an informed decision about how you want to pledge your hard-earned money.
They have said that the bases will be thinner than this.
I think those titans look fantastic, but that's me.
That big guy is nicely designed but really boringly posed.
It does look like he could play a piano while balancing on a barrel though, so that niche is covered.
CMON PVC is great, if this is close then I think 99% of people will be happy. I'm not a huge fan of Wyrd's HIPS minis though so I'm not sure I trust their interpretation of quality when it comes to casts.
Yeah, really my concern was when Aionus was announced as PVC, I mentioned the issues with it and Nathan vouched for it being good PVC and it turned out to be decidedly average- not terrible, but I wouldn't have bought the mini had he not oversold it.
Just to address the discussion around the material used, I don't thinkanyone has shared these videos from the KS yet:
You get a godd, up close look at the material. In another video they say these are just prototypes, and the newer models have a greater level fo details.
They seem fine to me. Some give, but not excessive. Although I'll still probably wait for retail and get some in my hands first before buying.
Vain wrote: It is always weird seeing people from the internet...
BUt... I'm never off the internet :(
Sorry, I meant Ozy in her Totoro onesie. I forget that people can be more than their little avatars. Honestly my mental image of HMBC is of a very dizzy Commissar.
But back to this, thanks for adding the video, that was very helpful.
They're showing the cards for what's unlocked so far.
Gibbering Hordes
Spoiler:
Kings Empire
Spoiler:
Abyssinia
Spoiler:
Cult of the Burning Man
Spoiler:
I really like what they're doing with Gibbering Hordes. First up, they're a horde army that plays with roughly the same amount of models as the opponent. Hurray painting queue! Their hordeishness comes from being able to respawn non-commander squads (not champions, which are single model units like the Stormsiren commander).
The Glory mechanic is interesting. Essentially some units have a 2 sided card, the other side is like a boosted up version of the front. Every factions Allegiance card tells you how to go into Glory. Gibbering Hordes you sacrifice a fireteam base from a nearby unit (representing the survival of the fittest aspect of a bunch of alpha predators). Kings Empire does it by wiping out a Fireteam base (representing their reliance on their guns). Cult of the Burning Man discard Shaken tokens (because they're all nuts). Abyssinia by discarding Control cards. Not entirely sure what that represents.
@Gorillajoe - If we wanted to structure the kickstarter in a mostly 'one and done' manner, we could have done that easily and blown through goals easily. I'm interested in seeing this grow at the retailer and distributor level, and thus have structured it to do so.
If you feel it's not a good buy in, I respect that. But we've also been very open in the fact that we're not interested in charging along, giving it all away, and tramping on the later market either.
There are a TON of exceptionally great projects that have come through Kickstarter. Some are setup specifically NOT to find their ways into distribution (Kingdom Death - Hey Adam!) and thus are setup the way they are, others are racking in a TON of backing, and giving out boxful of goodies - yet when it comes time for distributors or retailers, few of them go forth from there.
It's a balancing act. Not everyone is going to be pleased with the direction we are taking this - I can respect that. We're trying something new as well - which may or may not work in the manner that we see, but as with anything, gotta try to find out, and we didn't get to where we are by doing the same as everyone else.
-Nathan
Lindsey wrote:@Nickel: I've just been handed a report that we currently do not have any KS exclusives. The Backerkit will allow everyone to adjust, add, or change anything they need in their pledge. Also it seems that the reporter that got me this information has been eaten? Whats happening out there?
Lindsey wrote:@Robert: Yes as we stand currently there are no exclusive sculpts or alternative figures with this KS.
Hmm, no KS exclusives and limited discount? At least they are standing firm on principle... Oops.
Lindsey wrote:I've just been handed an urgent news flash! It appear there will be KS Special Edition Models being recruited as future stretch goals! It seems each Allegiance will be adding a Special Edition Champion to their team. What this means for the Earth we can only speculate.
@Mr. Lucky: Yes the Special Edition Champions will be add-ons.
Well, okay, I mean this thing was so well planned, I'm sure this was decided... oh.
Lindsey wrote:More updates are flooding in from HQ! There will be a KS Special Edition item coming that will be included free as a Stretch Goal. As to it's nature...it seems we will be left in suspense.
At least they aren't scrambling because they didn't understand their market... gol dang it.
Lindsey wrote:Attention Troops! I've just gotten out of a top secret meeting in HQ. We have heard your feedback and we have listened! Keep your eyes peeled for an incoming update regarding stretch goals. We have condensed these goals so that you will get to the Mini Madness that you crave faster. We also want to thank you, our ground troops, for your enthusiasm with this project. As always supporting our games and our community is our top mission!
Lindsey wrote:@Nickel: I've just been handed a report that we currently do not have any KS exclusives. The Backerkit will allow everyone to adjust, add, or change anything they need in their pledge. Also it seems that the reporter that got me this information has been eaten? Whats happening out there?
Lindsey wrote:@Robert: Yes as we stand currently there are no exclusive sculpts or alternative figures with this KS.
Hmm, no KS exclusives and limited discount? At least they are standing firm on principle... Oops.
Lindsey wrote:I've just been handed an urgent news flash! It appear there will be KS Special Edition Models being recruited as future stretch goals! It seems each Allegiance will be adding a Special Edition Champion to their team. What this means for the Earth we can only speculate.
@Mr. Lucky: Yes the Special Edition Champions will be add-ons.
Well, okay, I mean this thing was so well planned, I'm sure this was decided... oh.
Lindsey wrote:More updates are flooding in from HQ! There will be a KS Special Edition item coming that will be included free as a Stretch Goal. As to it's nature...it seems we will be left in suspense.
At least they aren't scrambling because they didn't understand their market... gol dang it.
Lindsey wrote:Attention Troops! I've just gotten out of a top secret meeting in HQ. We have heard your feedback and we have listened! Keep your eyes peeled for an incoming update regarding stretch goals. We have condensed these goals so that you will get to the Mini Madness that you crave faster. We also want to thank you, our ground troops, for your enthusiasm with this project. As always supporting our games and our community is our top mission!
Total elapsed time? Less then 48 hours.
So if you're not backing this, is there any reason to do this? This is practically trolling. You've got no investment, and you're just trying to get a rise out of people.
Yes, they ran the last kickstarter badly. Yes, they're adding things to this kicstarter that people are asking for. Do your post mortem when it's finished so people actually intterested can read it?
I like that there are no KS-exclusive figures nor exclusive sculpts. It means that people can actually buy-in to the game at a later date and not end up missing anything. Such things tend to harm the product in the long run.
To this day, I still refuse to buy the Hulk-Smash Hannah model for Malifaux. It's a stupid pose and only exists as such because the RPG kickstarter got the good pose.
I really don't understand why Wyrd does kickstarters.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I don't think they need to give away CMON levels of stuff, but they definitely need to add a bit more than just one or two figures.
I'd like to see those add on prices get brought back to reality though.
I don't see those units flying off the shelf at KS prices, let alone MSRP, considering how many we'd need in a game.
Which then brings us back to the whole PVC vs plastics and why it would've made more sense to do all those hordes in plastic, but alas...
Pricing is my primary concern, it's reaching GW and PP levels or pricing which is concerning. At least Wyrds prices don't change (at least in Australia) so we don't have the annual price hikes to worry about.
PVC vs HIPS... eh. There's benefits and drawbacks to both sides. The drawback to HIPS is Wyrd can't restrain themselves from making complicated dynamic posing, which causes models to be cut into a dozen or more tiny peices.I don't mind having to build a few models in Malifaux, but I'd likely give up with 45-50 models for The Other Side, so I can live with prebuilt PVC.
Because they're not that big. Look how long it took them to get the M1.5E stuff caught up in plastic - over three years.
They want to launch TOS with a decent range of models, which they would have taken a year or more tog et out the door with their usual release schedule. So they're basically using Kickstarter to launch the production of the game, since the development is all but done.
Lindsey wrote:@Nickel: I've just been handed a report that we currently do not have any KS exclusives. The Backerkit will allow everyone to adjust, add, or change anything they need in their pledge. Also it seems that the reporter that got me this information has been eaten? Whats happening out there?
Lindsey wrote:@Robert: Yes as we stand currently there are no exclusive sculpts or alternative figures with this KS.
Hmm, no KS exclusives and limited discount? At least they are standing firm on principle... Oops.
Lindsey wrote:I've just been handed an urgent news flash! It appear there will be KS Special Edition Models being recruited as future stretch goals! It seems each Allegiance will be adding a Special Edition Champion to their team. What this means for the Earth we can only speculate.
@Mr. Lucky: Yes the Special Edition Champions will be add-ons.
Well, okay, I mean this thing was so well planned, I'm sure this was decided... oh.
Lindsey wrote:More updates are flooding in from HQ! There will be a KS Special Edition item coming that will be included free as a Stretch Goal. As to it's nature...it seems we will be left in suspense.
At least they aren't scrambling because they didn't understand their market... gol dang it.
Lindsey wrote:Attention Troops! I've just gotten out of a top secret meeting in HQ. We have heard your feedback and we have listened! Keep your eyes peeled for an incoming update regarding stretch goals. We have condensed these goals so that you will get to the Mini Madness that you crave faster. We also want to thank you, our ground troops, for your enthusiasm with this project. As always supporting our games and our community is our top mission!
Total elapsed time? Less then 48 hours.
So if you're not backing this, is there any reason to do this? This is practically trolling. You've got no investment, and you're just trying to get a rise out of people.
Yes, they ran the last kickstarter badly. Yes, they're adding things to this kicstarter that people are asking for. Do your post mortem when it's finished so people actually intterested can read it?
At first I thought that Buzzsaw had just never partook in a KS before and so was just rambling off out of context quotes out of ignorance but now I agree with you, this feels a lot more like trolling/flaming.
The charts for incoming backers and such vs Kingdom Death makes logical sense: This is a campaign set up for long term sustainability with a focus on an ever-growing base and positive relations with the local stores VS a KS that is set on something that is not really local store price friendly and is based on a more one and done board mentality, those charts in that context make perfect sense.
As for the quotes, they seem framed in an oddly negative manner but really just go to show that they are listening to backers and constantly trying to improve their KS. While I have not quite yet jumped on board with the KS (as I have been trying to avoid backing any KS this year) I think they are doing a really good job talking to backers in the comment sections and honestly over the past few days have really improved the KS (Still think they should have shown more freebies up front but it seems once they reach 225,000 freebies will be much more common).
As for the hard plastic vs Resic debate, I get both sides and I am not sure you can please everyone. I can live with Resic as the saved time on assembly will be nice and I am not the best painter in the world anyways so I probably wont notice the quality difference.
Side note also: If I do back this I am leaning between the Kings Army and Abyssinia as they both look great. Anyone want to try to sell me on one side or the other?
Oh look, a Wyrd Kickstarter. If it's anything like the last one, this'll be entertaining. I wonder if they say that they'll be running their Kickstarter differently...
@Gorillajoe - If we wanted to structure the kickstarter in a mostly 'one and done' manner, we could have done that easily and blown through goals easily. I'm interested in seeing this grow at the retailer and distributor level, and thus have structured it to do so. If you feel it's not a good buy in, I respect that. But we've also been very open in the fact that we're not interested in charging along, giving it all away, and tramping on the later market either. There are a TON of exceptionally great projects that have come through Kickstarter. Some are setup specifically NOT to find their ways into distribution (Kingdom Death - Hey Adam!) and thus are setup the way they are, others are racking in a TON of backing, and giving out boxful of goodies - yet when it comes time for distributors or retailers, few of them go forth from there. It's a balancing act. Not everyone is going to be pleased with the direction we are taking this - I can respect that. We're trying something new as well - which may or may not work in the manner that we see, but as with anything, gotta try to find out, and we didn't get to where we are by doing the same as everyone else. -Nathan
So if you're not backing this, is there any reason to do this? This is practically trolling. You've got no investment, and you're just trying to get a rise out of people.
Yes, they ran the last kickstarter badly. Yes, they're adding things to this kicstarter that people are asking for. Do your post mortem when it's finished so people actually intterested can read it?
Because this is an open forum and anyone can offer an opinion for debate? If you don't like what he's saying, there's a little button marked "ignore". Buzzsaw's is posting criticism and opinion which is a lot easier to do if there's a delicate bubble of pretension and pomposity that just itches to be pricked...
zedmeister wrote: Because this is an open forum and anyone can offer an opinion for debate? If you don't like what he's saying, there's a little button marked "ignore". Buzzsaw's is posting criticism and opinion which is a lot easier to do if there's a delicate bubble of pretension and pomposity that just itches to be pricked...
Wyrd Kickstarter wrote:We are also aware that preassembled miniatures aren't for everyone. Though we won't offer unassembled Other Side models to retail, we will make unassembled version of the units available on our webstore some time after the game goes to retail, giving players who prefer to do assembly the chance to do so.
Just to be clear, there's no way to pledge for these right? Cool that they'll offer them in the future, though
ClockworkChaos wrote: The charts for incoming backers and such vs Kingdom Death makes logical sense:
Buzzsaw flat out noted it was uncharitable, and he wasn't kidding. KDM 1.5 is the third most funded Gaming (including absurd video games and all) KS to date. It's at 8 fething million dollars, and if there's enough in the community's gas tank for another 800k or so in the next 2.5 weeks (which seems like a given), it'll be the most funded gaming campaign on the site period (and whatever caveats for games that allowed late backing and paypal and whatever). Edit: hell, it's currently #8 on the most funded list of *everything*, and I'm sure it'll gain a spot or three before it ends.
Comparing almost any campaign to KDM is going to be unkind in the latter's favour. Plus it's not exactly an apples to apples lineup in the first place. Yes, both are niche games with minis. One is a solo/coop board game, the other is a competitive wargame. One is following behind a mess of a campaign for an unrelated project, the other is a literal sequel to one of the top 50 most funded gaming campaigns (I think it's number 35 or so?). One will be at retail in the future, the other will not, and the first round of KDM was selling for such absurd prices on the secondary market I'd be shocked if there wasn't substantial speculation going on here. And that's just off the top of my head.
Note, I'm still not a backer, I still have no interest in backing, none of my friends are interested in backing, and frankly my history with Wyrd is bad enough I might never buy another thing they make.
But 'let's compare this average dude with the biggest baddest MMA fighter in the world' is not going to end well for the former dude.
KDM is its own thing, I'm sure there are thousands of Kickstarter campaign comment sections that are tired of hearing about it.
Edit2: that said, the inconsistency in their information is noteworthy. If they want to do their own thing, that's cool. If they want to listen to the backers and adjust things, that's cool too. But that's a lot of back and forth on topics in the span of a couple days. If nothing else I'd say maybe hold off on the messaging a bit and sort things out definitively. It's not like they lack time, they'll probably be in the campaign doldrums for a couple of weeks yet almost regardless of what they do. Measure twice, cut once, as my old carpentry teacher used to say.
I doubt I'll back this but I'm actually impressed by those comments and the campaign management, far more than Poots' handling of KDM thus far. I feel like the KDM success is in spite of his management. Whereas here, Wyrd is trying very hard to be conservative with the long-view while still creating a successful KS (which they're finding out means more than a simple preorder).
Like Forar said, KSing a board game is a whole different world than KSing a wargame. The latter requires community, a perception of growth/success, etc.
If Wyrd even remotely understood "being conservative" or "the long view" they wouldn't have over-extended into a new ambitious game, in an over-crowded market, while their niche success could still use a ton of love and support.
A smart, forward thinking company would've leveraged their success and slowly grow, not jump head first into this cluster-f.
I DO think Malifaux is a very fun, often clever game, and i'd love to see it grow and continue to succeed, but I would wager a serious bet that Otherside will make it to market, immediately peter out, and never be heard from again, to the detriment of Wyrd, within a year of arrival.
What, like
Puppet Wars (until its even more-unsupported reboot)
Evil Baby Orphanage
Showdown
Jetpack unicorn or w/e
That shaman game
That building game
...basically everything they've done other than TTB and Malifaux?
I meant that it doesn,t bode well for the long term future of the game that it is not even getting 250k a few days after the start of the campaign. At this rate, it seems dubious they'll break the 750k barrier, which is what Wrath of Kings got, and it's pretty impossible to find an opponent for WOK.
That's a huge improvement over the current Lazarus. Given that they say they will talk about how to acquire it later I'm guessing it's not general release. Maybe part of the guilder program?
-Loki- wrote: That's a huge improvement over the current Lazarus.
Agreed. The current Lazarus is one of the few miniatures that I've picked up, primed, based and then said to myself "This is just not worth my time - it looks like a cheap action figure". The helmet alone is a huge improvement...This one is much better and I even might get one to complete my Freikorps if it goes on retail.
streetsamurai wrote: This seems to be heading to the failure category. I tought it would have done a lot better than that
It's funded?
It also comes down to expectations from a known brand and company. $200k for a new company kickstarting a new game is incredible. $200k for a company with the size and name recognition of Wyrd is a failure.
and need a couple of the journalist girls but not keen on the master (mistress?)
ton of minis for a solid price. Way cheaper then this.
