Can i ask did everyone get their refunds from Toatal Cards in the end, mine still hasnt come through. I'm sure it will but I might hassle them a bit anyways
Cronch wrote: Fortunately, since the product isn't limited, you just need to return it and wait for replacement.
Unfortunately I had already started to build the units before noticing the damage on the bosses sprue so can’t return.
That's not true, you should still be able to return it as long as it's within a "reasonable" time frame (usually around 30 days but depends on the product). It's not something you would have necessarily noticed right away and if the product was faulty at the time of purchase you are entitled to a refund or replacement. Being used does not affect your statutory rights.
Cronch wrote: Fortunately, since the product isn't limited, you just need to return it and wait for replacement.
Unfortunately I had already started to build the units before noticing the damage on the bosses sprue so can’t return.
That's not true, you should still be able to return it as long as it's within a "reasonable" time frame (usually around 30 days but depends on the product). It's not something you would have necessarily noticed right away and if the product was faulty at the time of purchase you are entitled to a refund or replacement. Being used does not affect your statutory rights.
At the same time there's no way to prove it was faulty at time of purchase when you've got built stuff. To any store owner it would look "more" like you'd started building and lost a part.
At least if nothing was built there's a greater chance that a store will believe you.
It’s damage on Sprue.
They have to take it at face value.
Either way they’ll get the money back so can accept it for the goodwill of keeping the customer happy.
They may not even have to send faulty goods back depending on GW policy.
Some companies just say to destroy them (which I guess the store could then keep as a personal copy, store demo or for cheeky sales on eBay broken down. I wouldn’t ask).
However, knowing GW they’d want everything returned of faulty.
For faults within 90 days of purchase the onus is on the retsiker to prove it want like that when you bought it.
GW definitely changed policy , probably because it was being exploited , so now they’ll only deal with issues if you bought from GW online or in store. Everything else is back to the retailer.
Tbf what GW is going is U.K. law eg retailer is responsible for faults and issues BUT wargames products are seemingly have far lower quality control than other hobby kits.
Store #1 didn't have any because they didn't order any.
Store #2 didn't have any, either. Ordered 24, got 0, and the rather irritated store owner claimed his GW rep spent the last week or so avoiding his calls. And apparently did the same with Piety and Pain.
Vaguely curious if store #3 will pan out, but this evening's vaccination kinda takes precedence. Will see if I'm up to it tomorrow.
Either way, after that I'm giving up. If GW wants to make selling me products difficult, I can accommodate that desire.
Yeah utterly idiotic logic... It seems they really don't like selling their stuff to people.
Guess once again I will order something cool that I don't need to go on the pile of shame from Mierce *shrug*
Or maybe check out inifinity and finaly get soemthing from those guys
Cronch wrote: Fortunately, since the product isn't limited, you just need to return it and wait for replacement.
Is it tho? Because I really wanted my Silver Tower kit and didn't had chance to grab one. And some BB teams are starting to disappear from the webstore too...
Went by my FLGS today and decided to buy a copy on a whim. Last weekend I noticed that a lot of my RPG/board game friends were asking me about Warhammer. They aren't the type to ever play 40K or AoS due to money, time and school. But I think I can introduce them through stuff like this and then we can have a shared experience.
I have to say these kits are amazeballs. I'd planned on buying Soulblight when they hit later in the year, and I'm really glad I picked up this box. It looks to not only be a fun game, in and of itself, but also these models will be great in my army for pose variation!
For the complainers, you do realize that they didn't think this product was going to be this popular, combined with Covid breaking nearly every industry in the world? Be patient, local FLGS said they were told that this might get the same treatment that Indomitus got, so just be patient.
For the complainers, you do realize that they didn't think this product was going to be this popular, combined with Covid breaking nearly every industry in the world? Be patient, local FLGS said they were told that this might get the same treatment that Indomitus got, so just be patient.
Shop I was in today said the opposite, so we'll see.
Either way, its a crappy move by GW not to have a definitive answer (actually, not to have had a definitive answer before preorders started).
you do realize that they didn't think this product was going to be this popular,
In business, this is called 'a failure.' If a company can't predict their customer base and predict demand (especially after a couple dozen boxed sets of this type, the vast majority of which sell out), they're doing something terribly wrong.
And again, if it was something out of their control that went wrong (inexplicable problems with the 'cardboard company' or whatever), they still should have said.
They didn't have any problems actually admitting issues with the half-dozen or so items that got lost on the way to Austrailia, for example (like the primaris bike chaplain).
Domican wrote: Can i ask did everyone get their refunds from Toatal Cards in the end, mine still hasnt come through. I'm sure it will but I might hassle them a bit anyways
Mine came through to my account on Wednesday morning, just give it a little time, they at least seem fair about handling refunds.
For the complainers, you do realize that they didn't think this product was going to be this popular, combined with Covid breaking nearly every industry in the world? Be patient, local FLGS said they were told that this might get the same treatment that Indomitus got, so just be patient.
Shop I was in today said the opposite, so we'll see.
Either way, its a crappy move by GW not to have a definitive answer (actually, not to have had a definitive answer before preorders started).
you do realize that they didn't think this product was going to be this popular,
In business, this is called 'a failure.' If a company can't predict their customer base and predict demand (especially after a couple dozen boxed sets of this type, the vast majority of which sell out), they're doing something terribly wrong.
And again, if it was something out of their control that went wrong (inexplicable problems with the 'cardboard company' or whatever), they still should have said.
They didn't have any problems actually admitting issues with the half-dozen or so items that got lost on the way to Austrailia, for example (like the primaris bike chaplain).
I don't think that will fly in the age of Pandemic. I just read an article in my home town newspaper about one of our local restaurants losing 8K USD in food because business had been booming, and so they set their order in at 4:13PM local time (cutoff was at 5PM). At 6PM that night the local government announced that 70+ people in the area had tested positive that day and that business would have to close for two weeks. The owner ended up throwing out nearly 6K of that food order because no one was there to support it. That same thing can happen in gaming hobbies.
What I am saying here is that you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't. Sales statistics in all areas of business are nuts right now, some things are selling like hotcakes, others are sitting on shelves until they rot (if perishable). I'm not trying to harp on you, but we all need to try and be more understanding and patient during these times. One thing we as players can do is help each other find these products. I'll ask my local store tomorrow when I stop by again if they have extras.
Togusa wrote: ... you do realize that they didn't think this product was going to be this popular...
For real? They made a whole new separate website for it, and hyped it up. Do you honestly, in your heart of hearts, think GW went into the design and production of Cursed City thinking "Well, this won't be that popular, but let's do it anyway!".
And it is popular. Stores around the world were selling out within minutes of pre-orders going live. GW themselves made a bit of tat (the key) in order to entice people into buying directly from them rather than 3rd parties, and it worked, because the key sold out before the game did, and then it sold out.
"[T]hey didn't think [it] was going to be this popular..."
Are you for real?
Togusa wrote: ... combined with Covid breaking nearly every industry in the world?
Which has literally nothing - zip, nada, zero - to do with GW's lack of communication as to whether this is an ongoing product, or a one-and-done.
Togusa wrote: Be patient, local FLGS said they were told that this might get the same treatment that Indomitus got, so just be patient.
It's been a week and a half since pre-orders started. Many people already have their copies. That's more than enough time for GW to say something.
Domican wrote: Can i ask did everyone get their refunds from Toatal Cards in the end, mine still hasnt come through. I'm sure it will but I might hassle them a bit anyways
Still waiting here, too. They said 24-48 hours, but that has well passed.
Domican wrote: Can i ask did everyone get their refunds from Toatal Cards in the end, mine still hasnt come through. I'm sure it will but I might hassle them a bit anyways
Still waiting here, too. They said 24-48 hours, but that has well passed.
My refund came through but they bounced mine as flagged by the CC company (which I don't believe) and refunded on that basis.
Let's be honest : GW's current communication on future availability of Cursed City isn't appropriate.
It sure is in the same line than their marketing section certainly wants it (playing on FOMO to sell the most), but that's not an excuse at all. Merely an explanation of why it is that way.
Customers shouldn't be just hoping it will come back later. They should be knowing if that's the case or not, not "if" or "maybe". GW absolutely knows if they want to produce more Cursed City boxes (or make expansions), or if it was a "one-shot" kind of sale. They just don't want to share that information clearly right now - and that's wrong for customers.
It also opens up the market for Filthy Scalpers. Not only selling the whole set at what might be a needlessly inflated price (they’d have a hard job taking a scalp if it’s just a matter of awaiting restock), but splitting them, reducing the number of complete sets in the world.
Confirm it will be back, and much of the motivation driving people to scalpers falls away.
And yes, I really, really really do hate Scalpers.
lord_blackfang wrote: To be fair, it's absolutely ridiculus the onus for fixing obvious manufacturer defects is on the very last link in the retail chain by default.
I disagree, as it's this final link in the chain that has a relationship with the customer, and all they are required to do is refund the purchase, not fix the fault. If I bought a computer from ABC computers and it turns out to be faulty, I'd much rather take it back to ABC and get a refund rather than take it back to ABC and have the manager tell me "Sorry Guv, I have the money you paid me and this isn't my problem anymore, you'll have to get in touch with Dell incorporated and take it up with them".
lord_blackfang wrote: To be fair, it's absolutely ridiculus the onus for fixing obvious manufacturer defects is on the very last link in the retail chain by default.
I disagree, as it's this final link in the chain that has a relationship with the customer, and all they are required to do is refund the purchase, not fix the fault. If I bought a computer from ABC computers and it turns out to be faulty, I'd much rather take it back to ABC and get a refund rather than take it back to ABC and have the manager tell me "Sorry Guv, I have the money you paid me and this isn't my problem anymore, you'll have to get in touch with Dell incorporated and take it up with them".
I guess from a customer perspective it depends on the circumstances, in your example, where a replacement item should be readily available, yes, I can see most people would prefer to get the refund, then they can just buy a replacement straight away, but I can see why for something that is no longer (currently) available that there may be a benefit of dealing with the manufacturer who may be more likely to be able to replace the item, or just the damaged part.
For the complainers, you do realize that they didn't think this product was going to be this popular, combined with Covid breaking nearly every industry in the world? Be patient, local FLGS said they were told that this might get the same treatment that Indomitus got, so just be patient.
Shop I was in today said the opposite, so we'll see.
Either way, its a crappy move by GW not to have a definitive answer (actually, not to have had a definitive answer before preorders started).
you do realize that they didn't think this product was going to be this popular,
In business, this is called 'a failure.' If a company can't predict their customer base and predict demand (especially after a couple dozen boxed sets of this type, the vast majority of which sell out), they're doing something terribly wrong.
And again, if it was something out of their control that went wrong (inexplicable problems with the 'cardboard company' or whatever), they still should have said.
They didn't have any problems actually admitting issues with the half-dozen or so items that got lost on the way to Austrailia, for example (like the primaris bike chaplain).
I don't think that will fly in the age of Pandemic. I just read an article in my home town newspaper about one of our local restaurants losing 8K USD in food because business had been booming, and so they set their order in at 4:13PM local time (cutoff was at 5PM). At 6PM that night the local government announced that 70+ people in the area had tested positive that day and that business would have to close for two weeks. The owner ended up throwing out nearly 6K of that food order because no one was there to support it. That same thing can happen in gaming hobbies.
What I am saying here is that you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't. Sales statistics in all areas of business are nuts right now, some things are selling like hotcakes, others are sitting on shelves until they rot (if perishable). I'm not trying to harp on you, but we all need to try and be more understanding and patient during these times. One thing we as players can do is help each other find these products. I'll ask my local store tomorrow when I stop by again if they have extras.
If they’d only put the order in 2 hours before surely they’d be able to contact and cancel?
Side note really, but it surprises me that they’d be that ruined by a matter of hours not being able to do anything.
For the complainers, you do realize that they didn't think this product was going to be this popular, combined with Covid breaking nearly every industry in the world? Be patient, local FLGS said they were told that this might get the same treatment that Indomitus got, so just be patient.
Shop I was in today said the opposite, so we'll see.
Either way, its a crappy move by GW not to have a definitive answer (actually, not to have had a definitive answer before preorders started).
you do realize that they didn't think this product was going to be this popular,
In business, this is called 'a failure.' If a company can't predict their customer base and predict demand (especially after a couple dozen boxed sets of this type, the vast majority of which sell out), they're doing something terribly wrong.
And again, if it was something out of their control that went wrong (inexplicable problems with the 'cardboard company' or whatever), they still should have said.
They didn't have any problems actually admitting issues with the half-dozen or so items that got lost on the way to Austrailia, for example (like the primaris bike chaplain).
I don't think that will fly in the age of Pandemic. I just read an article in my home town newspaper about one of our local restaurants losing 8K USD in food because business had been booming, and so they set their order in at 4:13PM local time (cutoff was at 5PM). At 6PM that night the local government announced that 70+ people in the area had tested positive that day and that business would have to close for two weeks. The owner ended up throwing out nearly 6K of that food order because no one was there to support it. That same thing can happen in gaming hobbies.
What I am saying here is that you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't. Sales statistics in all areas of business are nuts right now, some things are selling like hotcakes, others are sitting on shelves until they rot (if perishable). I'm not trying to harp on you, but we all need to try and be more understanding and patient during these times. One thing we as players can do is help each other find these products. I'll ask my local store tomorrow when I stop by again if they have extras.
If they’d only put the order in 2 hours before surely they’d be able to contact and cancel?
Side note really, but it surprises me that they’d be that ruined by a matter of hours not being able to do anything.
The article said no. Now mind you, I don't know if that's how things work with GW. But it illustrates the point of just how volatile even ordering things are right now. My FLGS and Local Warhammer store both have terrible times getting even 30% of what they order in during a given week.
Togusa wrote: ... you do realize that they didn't think this product was going to be this popular...
For real? They made a whole new separate website for it, and hyped it up. Do you honestly, in your heart of hearts, think GW went into the design and production of Cursed City thinking "Well, this won't be that popular, but let's do it anyway!".
And it is popular. Stores around the world were selling out within minutes of pre-orders going live. GW themselves made a bit of tat (the key) in order to entice people into buying directly from them rather than 3rd parties, and it worked, because the key sold out before the game did, and then it sold out.
"[T]hey didn't think [it] was going to be this popular..."
Are you for real?
Togusa wrote: ... combined with Covid breaking nearly every industry in the world?
Which has literally nothing - zip, nada, zero - to do with GW's lack of communication as to whether this is an ongoing product, or a one-and-done.
Togusa wrote: Be patient, local FLGS said they were told that this might get the same treatment that Indomitus got, so just be patient.
It's been a week and a half since pre-orders started. Many people already have their copies. That's more than enough time for GW to say something.
Yes, I am for real. Because I heard that exact quote over the phone between my local store owner and his GW rep. The rep said "We had no idea that there would be THIS much of an interest in the product and we're scrambling to fill orders as we speak. I know that you ordered 10 boxes, however I can only send you four." And one hour later my local store owner informed us that they had called and dropped him to three copies instead of the promised 4. I believe they didn't expect this level of interest in the game.
Now, as for communication, I don't know. I don't even know what problem you are referring to. What did they not communicate?
For the complainers, you do realize that they didn't think this product was going to be this popular, combined with Covid breaking nearly every industry in the world? Be patient, local FLGS said they were told that this might get the same treatment that Indomitus got, so just be patient.
Shop I was in today said the opposite, so we'll see.
Either way, its a crappy move by GW not to have a definitive answer (actually, not to have had a definitive answer before preorders started).
you do realize that they didn't think this product was going to be this popular,
In business, this is called 'a failure.' If a company can't predict their customer base and predict demand (especially after a couple dozen boxed sets of this type, the vast majority of which sell out), they're doing something terribly wrong.
And again, if it was something out of their control that went wrong (inexplicable problems with the 'cardboard company' or whatever), they still should have said.
They didn't have any problems actually admitting issues with the half-dozen or so items that got lost on the way to Austrailia, for example (like the primaris bike chaplain).
I don't think that will fly in the age of Pandemic. I just read an article in my home town newspaper about one of our local restaurants losing 8K USD in food because business had been booming, and so they set their order in at 4:13PM local time (cutoff was at 5PM). At 6PM that night the local government announced that 70+ people in the area had tested positive that day and that business would have to close for two weeks. The owner ended up throwing out nearly 6K of that food order because no one was there to support it. That same thing can happen in gaming hobbies.
What I am saying here is that you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't. Sales statistics in all areas of business are nuts right now, some things are selling like hotcakes, others are sitting on shelves until they rot (if perishable). I'm not trying to harp on you, but we all need to try and be more understanding and patient during these times. One thing we as players can do is help each other find these products. I'll ask my local store tomorrow when I stop by again if they have extras.
If they’d only put the order in 2 hours before surely they’d be able to contact and cancel?
Side note really, but it surprises me that they’d be that ruined by a matter of hours not being able to do anything.
The article said no. Now mind you, I don't know if that's how things work with GW. But it illustrates the point of just how volatile even ordering things are right now. My FLGS and Local Warhammer store both have terrible times getting even 30% of what they order in during a given week.
Togusa wrote: ... you do realize that they didn't think this product was going to be this popular...
For real? They made a whole new separate website for it, and hyped it up. Do you honestly, in your heart of hearts, think GW went into the design and production of Cursed City thinking "Well, this won't be that popular, but let's do it anyway!".
And it is popular. Stores around the world were selling out within minutes of pre-orders going live. GW themselves made a bit of tat (the key) in order to entice people into buying directly from them rather than 3rd parties, and it worked, because the key sold out before the game did, and then it sold out.
"[T]hey didn't think [it] was going to be this popular..."
Are you for real?
Togusa wrote: ... combined with Covid breaking nearly every industry in the world?
Which has literally nothing - zip, nada, zero - to do with GW's lack of communication as to whether this is an ongoing product, or a one-and-done.
Togusa wrote: Be patient, local FLGS said they were told that this might get the same treatment that Indomitus got, so just be patient.
It's been a week and a half since pre-orders started. Many people already have their copies. That's more than enough time for GW to say something.
Yes, I am for real. Because I heard that exact quote over the phone between my local store owner and his GW rep. The rep said "We had no idea that there would be THIS much of an interest in the product and we're scrambling to fill orders as we speak. I know that you ordered 10 boxes, however I can only send you four." And one hour later my local store owner informed us that they had called and dropped him to three copies instead of the promised 4. I believe they didn't expect this level of interest in the game.
Now, as for communication, I don't know. I don't even know what problem you are referring to. What did they not communicate?
Then that GW rep is either a huge moron, or a liar. Very very likely the second, as GW uses the tired old "sowwy we didn't knew thewe would be this much demand uwu" excuse everytime they purposefully make limited amounts of product to exploit Fear Of Missing Out, despite the fact they could easily produce enough for everyone AND the fact anyone that's not brain-dead should by now expect huge demand.
Togusa wrote: Yes, I am for real. Because I heard that exact quote over the phone between my local store owner and his GW rep. The rep said "We had no idea that there would be THIS much of an interest in the product and we're scrambling to fill orders as we speak. I know that you ordered 10 boxes, however I can only send you four."
You actually believed that? That's the worst BS corporate ass covering excuse that could ever exist. GW knew exactly how popular this would be thanks to previous Quest sales.
I could actually appreciate that GW have so engrained FOMO in their customer base that it becomes harder to predict how many copies they need to last more than an hour, but still not be stuck with a giant pile of product.
Think about it, if a large portion of your customer base has FOMO then a large portion of your sales are going to be in the first couple of hours if nor minutes after release. After that, sales just trickle in for the next few weeks and indeed the rest of the product's life.
So while it might seem GW is massively underestimating demand, an alternative explanation is that it's entirely possible that there's a fine line between "preorders sold out in an hour" and "too much stock that it's costing them money".
While GW could of course make enough for everyone, realistically they only want to make as much as they can sell and no more since they don't want piles of unsold product lying around.
Often when the preorders sell out you'll find stores here and there that still have stock weeks or months later anyway.
Togusa wrote: Yes, I am for real. Because I heard that exact quote over the phone between my local store owner and his GW rep. The rep said "We had no idea that there would be THIS much of an interest in the product and we're scrambling to fill orders as we speak. I know that you ordered 10 boxes, however I can only send you four."
You actually believed that? That's the worst BS corporate ass covering excuse that could ever exist. GW knew exactly how popular this would be thanks to previous Quest sales.
Expect we’ve seen them increasing sales by a huge amount since the last one was released.
Boxed Games are planned well in advance, so it’s easy for them to under produce. Hence the need for them to just bloody tell us, nice and straight, whether or not they’ll be producing more.
Togusa wrote: Yes, I am for real. Because I heard that exact quote over the phone between my local store owner and his GW rep. The rep said "We had no idea that there would be THIS much of an interest in the product and we're scrambling to fill orders as we speak. I know that you ordered 10 boxes, however I can only send you four."
You actually believed that? That's the worst BS corporate ass covering excuse that could ever exist. GW knew exactly how popular this would be thanks to previous Quest sales.
Expect we’ve seen them increasing sales by a huge amount since the last one was released.
Boxed Games are planned well in advance, so it’s easy for them to under produce. Hence the need for them to just bloody tell us, nice and straight, whether or not they’ll be producing more.
I never said they didn't under produce, I said that the rep is spewing corporate BS to cover that fact. There's a reason GW reps have a bad reputation.
Togusa wrote: Yes, I am for real. Because I heard that exact quote over the phone between my local store owner and his GW rep. The rep said "We had no idea that there would be THIS much of an interest in the product and we're scrambling to fill orders as we speak. I know that you ordered 10 boxes, however I can only send you four."
You actually believed that? That's the worst BS corporate ass covering excuse that could ever exist. GW knew exactly how popular this would be thanks to previous Quest sales.
Expect we’ve seen them increasing sales by a huge amount since the last one was released.
Boxed Games are planned well in advance, so it’s easy for them to under produce. Hence the need for them to just bloody tell us, nice and straight, whether or not they’ll be producing more.
They have been selling out their boxed sets for years...One would think they would kinda figure it out by now...Which they have. which is why they produce this much and not more.
Except of course numbers are deliberately kept low.
And yet sometimes they still have boxes that appear not to sell. Consider the Slaanesh and Khorne box from a few years back that didn't seem to sell out for ages and yet had no bad content within it and a lot of good - new fiends, new hounds, the only (at the time) ranged unit for Slaanesh (without using a spell).
Overread wrote: And yet sometimes they still have boxes that appear not to sell. Consider the Slaanesh and Khorne box from a few years back that didn't seem to sell out for ages and yet had no bad content within it and a lot of good - new fiends, new hounds, the only (at the time) ranged unit for Slaanesh (without using a spell).
That's not quite comparable to a board game with exclusive miniatures, is it?
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Anyone who believes GW actually didn't expect Cursed City to be so popular is a fool that deserves to be parted with their money by GW.
It's not that people didn't expect GW to expect Cursed City to be popular.
Most of us expected GW to sell out on the pre-order week. Even if GW were running at full capacity (which they are very very far from right now). However we expected it to be a product with a several year lifespan with regular restocks during that period; and for that to be an open fact GW would easily confirm and reinforce through their community contact points. Instead we've had this hazy series of messages which at the same time suggest restocks are just a long way off or that its a one time product or that the product will return but in a changed form. Cryptic answers by community reps who are either as clueless as customers and are just repeating what the store page shows; or who are forbidden from elaborating further.
The result is what should be a clear bit of information is now muddled. The worrying thing is all signs pointed to a medium term product, but this sudden silence is hinting that perhaps it was a one time deal. Which leaves those hwo didn't panic on the pre-order day or who are short of money right now in an annoyed position.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Anyone who believes GW actually didn't expect Cursed City to be so popular is a fool that deserves to be parted with their money by GW.
It's not that people didn't expect GW to expect Cursed City to be popular.
Most of us expected GW to sell out on the pre-order week. Even if GW were running at full capacity (which they are very very far from right now). However we expected it to be a product with a several year lifespan with regular restocks during that period; and for that to be an open fact GW would easily confirm and reinforce through their community contact points. Instead we've had this hazy series of messages which at the same time suggest restocks are just a long way off or that its a one time product or that the product will return but in a changed form. Cryptic answers by community reps who are either as clueless as customers and are just repeating what the store page shows; or who are forbidden from elaborating further.
The result is what should be a clear bit of information is now muddled. The worrying thing is all signs pointed to a medium term product, but this sudden silence is hinting that perhaps it was a one time deal. Which leaves those hwo didn't panic on the pre-order day or who are short of money right now in an annoyed position.
None of which would be a problem if GW were not lying and didn't purposefully under-produce every box set and then come up with a lazy excuse every time.
Yeah, was about to post the same but wasn't sure if it was just me. Doesn't appear in searches and if I go back to my orders and click it I get "404 error expunged from records".
This is annoying as I usually use the high def webstore images for painting references and use the 360 degree views to be able to see the back of the models. Bugger.
Massive preview for the game. Weeks of articles showing off minis and components. It's own swanky website. A how to play video produced in studio during a time when the UK is pretty much in lockdown.
Sold out in 2 minutes. Never to be produced again?
H.B.M.C. wrote: Massive preview for the game. Weeks of articles showing off minis and components. It's own swanky website. A how to play video produced in studio during a time when the UK is pretty much in lockdown.
Sold out in 2 minutes. Never to be produced again?
I don't buy it.
It's GW so in contrast to GW's actual products, I'd buy it
H.B.M.C. wrote: Massive preview for the game. Weeks of articles showing off minis and components. It's own swanky website. A how to play video produced in studio during a time when the UK is pretty much in lockdown.
Sold out in 2 minutes. Never to be produced again?
I don't buy it.
Well, not buying is indeed the problem.
But yes, that they pushed it as hard as they did for the (apparent) handful of copies they made is just... inconceivable.
---
I'm baffled, to be honest. I half expect a Space Hulk situation where they mysteriously 'find' more copies laying around somewhere. Several times.
But, producing more seems the more sane and rational prospect. This isn't a Dreadfleet disaster or Pariah Nexus or a Versus box where the goal is to push exclusives sales or get rid of old stock pushed by new characters.
It was simply another Warhammer Quest box. That's all they've ever said. Its becoming a PR fail solely because they're failing to clarify, or at least yammer out a passable excuse. Even 'blah, blah Covid and shipping delays, but in X weeks/months...' would go a long way. Or just, 'yeah, we done goofed, sorry.' But the lack of anything is bad form, and making it worse.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Massive preview for the game. Weeks of articles showing off minis and components. It's own swanky website. A how to play video produced in studio during a time when the UK is pretty much in lockdown.
Sold out in 2 minutes. Never to be produced again?
I don't buy it.
Well, not buying is indeed the problem.
But yes, that they pushed it as hard as they did for the (apparent) handful of copies they made is just... inconceivable.
---
I'm baffled, to be honest. I half expect a Space Hulk situation where they mysteriously 'find' more copies laying around somewhere. Several times.
But, producing more seems the more sane and rational prospect. This isn't a Dreadfleet disaster or Pariah Nexus or a Versus box where the goal is to push exclusives sales or get rid of old stock pushed by new characters.
It was simply another Warhammer Quest box. That's all they've ever said. Its becoming a PR fail solely because they're failing to clarify, or at least yammer out a passable excuse. Even 'blah, blah Covid and shipping delays, but in X weeks/months...' would go a long way. Or just, 'yeah, we done goofed, sorry.' But the lack of anything is bad form, and making it worse.
They also pushed Indomitus pretty hard, stating several times, that it was limited but they had made enough copies that everyone would get one. We all know how that turned out.
GW is either massively underestimating demand or lockdowns and shipping delays are hindering the amount of copies they can produce, be it the models made in the UK or the other components printed in China.
GW have been aware of issues with production meeting demand for a LONG time, that's why they've spent a lot of money on building and outfitting a new LARGER factory location to use in addition to the current one.
I believe there was an intention for it to have gone live last year, however obviously that got held up pretty dramatically.
They're running well below their 2019 capacity anyway with Covid restrictions, quite aside from the fact they'd planned to have more than double that capacity by now and all of their product release planning will have been based around at least most of that capacity being available. On top of this they need to maintain production of existing lines to replenish stock levels of those.
On top of this their sales are running at around 25% up year on year.
They simply don't have production available for all of their kits right now, so they're trying to make enough of each new thing to be able to release products in the planned order and get back to their intended release schedule.
Anyone who thinks that GW are intentionally limiting production and sales volumes on some of these items by the amounts that would be required to have so many people unable to buy and selling out within a couple of hours on most releases is kidding themselves.
GW aren't choosing to not get your money out of spite, anyone suggesting anything along those lines is deluded.
FWIW, the online store (in Germany) where I usually get my GW stuff wrote that GW already underestimated the Piety & Pain battlebox demand massively, so they might indeed be in a ... not so good place regarding their logistics right now. That's no excuse for doing terrible PR, however :p
GW is either massively underestimating demand or lockdowns and shipping delays are hindering the amount of copies they can produce, be it the models made in the UK or the other components printed in China.
Or they're exploiting FOMO as they've done countless times before
Right now, Quest needs something to make up for this serious disappointment. If Cursed City was a victim of bad timing, then maybe they should just keep BSF printing off for a little longer and give players a new expedition and characters, in either White Dwarf or the community site.
But if BSF suddenly disappears without something to take its place then that would be really awful for Quest players, and especially at a time when local gaming tables are still closed.
Overread wrote: And yet sometimes they still have boxes that appear not to sell. Consider the Slaanesh and Khorne box from a few years back that didn't seem to sell out for ages and yet had no bad content within it and a lot of good - new fiends, new hounds, the only (at the time) ranged unit for Slaanesh (without using a spell).
The boxes that don't sell tend to have some sort of flaw- The absurd price of Blood of Phoenix, the demons-only content of the box set you mentioned, Feast of bones having old ogre models and the incredibly divisive OBR...
Yeah, and as stated previously, there's a difference between a versus box and a complete new game. If im not mistaken, the only game box that didn't sold well was dreadfleet. Seems like it traumatised big ol GW
GW have a few other things to contend with as well as COVID.
The change over to their new stock management system hasn't gone as planned and they have had to draft in help from a third party.
They also haven't moved into their new stock management hub in Leicester yet which means they are in a bit of a tricky situation managing stock levels due to space constraints.
Add in delays caused by COVID and the Ever Green Suez fiasco and you have a perfect storm that might be affecting them more badly than previously thought.
However, there's no reason they couldn't communicate this, unless they are worried about it affecting share prices.
I do believe Cursed City will come back, I just don't think even GW know when.
recaf wrote: I'm not too up on GW's production methods but is there any reason that, if this is a genuine mistake, they couldn't just do another run anyway?
Yes, but if its printed material (including the boards), that means booking time with a printer. That's usually done in advance, most 'for rent' presses operate in a busy queue.
That'd be the only acceptable delay for the current silence, in my mind- if they're trying to schedule a time frame for reprints and don't want to say anything until they can give a hard date (keeping in mind printing/shipping printed materials to them/putting it all together in boxes/then shipping out again). Though a quick post that they're trying wouldn't go amiss.
---
Though if they just want to sell the miniature sprues as part of the Soulblight release, I wouldn't object to that, either. Assuming they're priced like Cultists of the Abyss and not the absurd pricing of the Indomitus sprues, of course. Those prices still make me laugh, partly because I saw five actual Indomitus boxes on the shelf yesterday.
Which also feeds into why this situation is so frustrating. 5 Indomitus, 2 Lumenith, 1 each of Shadow and Pain, Aetherwar, Blood of the Phoenix, all on the shelf at a store. But no Cursed City. Strange that I can still find so many 'limited run' products...
If I were GW, I would be tempted to accept the win and move on too. Selling out is not exactly bad for business if the amount of copies sold was enough to turn in massive profit. I think it was.
jullevi wrote: If I were GW, I would be tempted to accept the win and move on too. Selling out is not exactly bad for business if the amount of copies sold was enough to turn in massive profit. I think it was.
I mean aside from the backlash they'll get from the community over this.
Which could be worse than Indomitus. Indomitus was big partly just because it was basically a huge massive discount boxed set, same as the others. This is a boxed game so far as we know if you don't get it the models within are likely to not be reprinted again and sold by GW - let alone the game components as well. It's the difference between a short term discount set - where its annoying if it runs out but not the end of the world - and a limited product where the actual product won't return again to the market.
One of them people can get over, they can grump about it, but in the end GW can just release the models and people settle down.
The other people won't get over and will complain each and every time GW puts up an expansoin or talks about it.
I wonder if they'll sell the set again at a higher price; or perhaps split the contents over two or more packs and raise the price that way. That would mean that its not a limited run, but that this first discounted set is.
Well, this is news? Disappointed to see it won't be coming back, I was planning on this being a big project in the future, guess that won't be happening!
jullevi wrote: If I were GW, I would be tempted to accept the win and move on too. Selling out is not exactly bad for business if the amount of copies sold was enough to turn in massive profit. I think it was.
I mean aside from the backlash they'll get from the community over this.
GW haven't shown themselves to be especially concerned with 'backlash' historically.
And the community have an absolutely appalling record of maintaining any sort of backlash for longer than the next shiny new release, even if any significant number even care in the first place.
This would be one of the silliest things GW could do with this product. Also there are several made to order options going on in third party stores so at least a single reprint?
Souleater wrote: I wonder what effect this will have on potential expansions. ☹
Probably no effect at all. The lead times are such that by now these are either already coming, or they're not. Which is exactly the same reason there won't be a reprint of this. GW will have a very clear idea of sales patterns, and spooling up another run of the components won't be worth it, in the covid world at least. The economics of it will be prohibitive when the majority of people who wanted to possess this will already have it. it's highly unlikely there's a long tail to sales of non core AoS and even less conversion of those who definitely would have bought itbut didn't because of xyz reasob
jullevi wrote: If I were GW, I would be tempted to accept the win and move on too. Selling out is not exactly bad for business if the amount of copies sold was enough to turn in massive profit. I think it was.
I mean aside from the backlash they'll get from the community over this.
GW haven't shown themselves to be especially concerned with 'backlash' historically.
And the community have an absolutely appalling record of maintaining any sort of backlash for longer than the next shiny new release, even if any significant number even care in the first place.
Yeah, what are they going to do about it, NOT buy the newest space marine GW dangles in front of their face? GW has hard data proving they can do whatever they want and their sales will keep rising, a doormat has more backbone than your average GW fan.
Anyone who thinks that GW are intentionally limiting production and sales volumes on some of these items by the amounts that would be required to have so many people unable to buy and selling out within a couple of hours on most releases is kidding themselves.
GW aren't choosing to not get your money out of spite, anyone suggesting anything along those lines is deluded.
Rik
Spite? Of course not.
Sales tactics? Clearly.
Plan for a few lost sales on a single box set. Sell loads more of the next few boxes (at a higher price) through customer fomo.
Zwan1One wrote: I don’t know if it has been brought up but the cursed city website looks to be gone as well.
Works for me.
I'm not too fussed about playing it so maybe I'll dump my copy in the basement for now and if it turns out there's really no reprint I'll flip it.
You’re right. I can search for it and access it but it’s not in the drop down menu on the site, which I thought it was there before. But maybe I’m wrong...
jullevi wrote: If I were GW, I would be tempted to accept the win and move on too. Selling out is not exactly bad for business if the amount of copies sold was enough to turn in massive profit. I think it was.
I mean aside from the backlash they'll get from the community over this.
GW haven't shown themselves to be especially concerned with 'backlash' historically.
And the community have an absolutely appalling record of maintaining any sort of backlash for longer than the next shiny new release, even if any significant number even care in the first place.
Yeah, what are they going to do about it, NOT buy the newest space marine GW dangles in front of their face? GW has hard data proving they can do whatever they want and their sales will keep rising, a doormat has more backbone than your average GW fan.
Remember the price hike five minutes before 9th was announced? "GW have now priced me out of the hobby and during a pandemic too!" Those claims lasted all of a fly's lifespan before "OMG Indomitus looks GLORIOUS!!! I must pre-order two boxes just for the Primaris!!!"
No doubt they'll put out a Community post saying they've listened and will make Cursed City a Made-to-Order release in the future and people will say it's proof how wonderful Nu!GW is at listening and they'll buy three boxes as thanks or something.
If it truly is now OOP then that's completely bizarre since I doubt that initial run was enough to see a RoI on all those unique plastic sculpts.
I doubt even Indomitus itself saw a massive profit, but it was mainly used as a way to further draw people into the 40k ecosystem. Not to mention all of those models are now on sale separately and will have many years to make their costs back.
What is Cursed City drawing people into? How are they going to make their investment back on these 60 unique plastic sculpts off of one run?
Bosskelot wrote: How are they going to make their investment back on these 60 unique plastic sculpts off of one run?
Don't forget many of them will share a sprue so they won't be individual moulds. Games like this might be only be a few moulds for the machine to work with.
The thing about Indomitus is all (or most anyway) of those sculpts were eventually going to be released at a 3-4 times the price. You can understand GW didn't want to flood the secondary market with endless sprues and deny themselves those sales.
That really shouldn't be the case here.
I tend to agree GW don't have some villainous scheme to stoke up demand and then go "HA! You can't give us money, how does it feel".
But this whole thing just seems bizarre. The amount of effort seems entirely overblown for a one and done release.
If it helps someone at GW is probably kicking themselves, because they could easily have charged 50% more and still sold out.
Yes, that would really be bizarre, which in connection with all the buildup is also why I still don't believe Cursed City is done yet.
Does anybody else think the language in the tweet is very guarded? The WarCom team write: 'Cursed City is sold-out on http://games-workshop.com and we are not expecting it to return online.' I read this as: 'We've seen Cursed City is now offline in the store and nobody really told us anything'.
I can access the Cursed City section on the AoS website just fine. It's still in the drop down menu under 'Games'.
Bosskelot wrote: If it truly is now OOP then that's completely bizarre since I doubt that initial run was enough to see a RoI on all those unique plastic sculpts.
I doubt even Indomitus itself saw a massive profit, but it was mainly used as a way to further draw people into the 40k ecosystem. Not to mention all of those models are now on sale separately and will have many years to make their costs back.
What is Cursed City drawing people into? How are they going to make their investment back on these 60 unique plastic sculpts off of one run?
or the iTs So eXpEnSiVE! claims have been stuck 20 years ago, in 2001....
Bosskelot wrote: If it truly is now OOP then that's completely bizarre since I doubt that initial run was enough to see a RoI on all those unique plastic sculpts.
I doubt even Indomitus itself saw a massive profit, but it was mainly used as a way to further draw people into the 40k ecosystem. Not to mention all of those models are now on sale separately and will have many years to make their costs back.
What is Cursed City drawing people into? How are they going to make their investment back on these 60 unique plastic sculpts off of one run?
or the iTs So eXpEnSiVE! claims have been stuck 20 years ago, in 2001....
Maybe because GW has always been hilariously overpriced.
Bosskelot wrote: If it truly is now OOP then that's completely bizarre since I doubt that initial run was enough to see a RoI on all those unique plastic sculpts.
I doubt even Indomitus itself saw a massive profit, but it was mainly used as a way to further draw people into the 40k ecosystem. Not to mention all of those models are now on sale separately and will have many years to make their costs back.
What is Cursed City drawing people into? How are they going to make their investment back on these 60 unique plastic sculpts off of one run?
GW has never made any sense... GW can make a unqiue spures for marines. I.e. vanguard marines for shadowspear.
Then REMAKE all those kits on new separate sprues... That's TWICE the amount sprue design/ work than is necessary. At the same time they cant find resource to make plastic kits for armies still languishing in finecast / Old plastics?
Their whole business practice is all sort of whack. They are perfectly happy to make limited run of plastic injected molds for all sorts of stuff, commemorative models, SM #43, random obscure side game I.e. Blood bowl etc. But they dont support their bread and butter games like 40k.
Its stopped making sense to me a while back from a manufacturing perspective. It only makes sense from a marketing create fake FOMO perspective
I say this is a good thing. Hopefully It gets more people spending money elsewhere hopefully and erode their market share. Hell I know they ain't getting money from me nowadays. I dont even want to give FW money now.
Can’t wait to dig in. Got off tomorrow so I’ll ship my Key of Ulfenkarn out to a british dude in Mad Doc’s FB loot group, then I’m gonna start painting.
I was really looking forward to this one because I like a lot of the minis, and BSF was a decent game. After watching some reviews I decided the game wasn’t that appealing to me, so I dropped my preorder and just ordered the Witch Hunter for Mordheim from a bitz seller.
My FGLS still has some copies in stock, but I think I’m going okay to spend the money on other stuff instead. If they still have them down the road I might pick it up if I want some more Undead to paint.....but the gameplay just doesn’t look that compelling.
Can’t wait to dig in. Got off tomorrow so I’ll ship my Key of Ulfenkarn out to a british dude in Mad Doc’s FB loot group, then I’m gonna start painting.
Argive wrote: Their whole business practice is all sort of whack.
They are perfectly happy to make limited run of plastic injected molds for all sorts of stuff, commemorative models, SM #43, random obscure side game I.e. Blood bowl etc.
But they dont support their bread and butter games like 40k.
Well, this is laughable.
Firstly, just because you don't play it, doesn't make Blood Bowl (or Necromunda, or Titanicus) a "random obscure side game" - they're established franchises, to one degree or other, with some really dedicated fanbases. The closest to a game you might have a point on is Aeronautica Imperialis, and even that is a v2 of a game initially produced by FW.
And claiming they don't support 40k... dude, there's a reason you're not meant to post while drunk. I don't have an exact count, but I'd feel fairly safe in saying there have been more plastic 40k releases since Indomitus than there have been releases for their "side games" - possibly not quite as many as for AOS, but that's a whole different kettle of fish.
Togusa wrote: Yes, I am for real. Because I heard that exact quote over the phone between my local store owner and his GW rep. The rep said "We had no idea that there would be THIS much of an interest in the product and we're scrambling to fill orders as we speak. I know that you ordered 10 boxes, however I can only send you four."
You actually believed that? That's the worst BS corporate ass covering excuse that could ever exist. GW knew exactly how popular this would be thanks to previous Quest sales.
Expect we’ve seen them increasing sales by a huge amount since the last one was released.
Boxed Games are planned well in advance, so it’s easy for them to under produce. Hence the need for them to just bloody tell us, nice and straight, whether or not they’ll be producing more.
I never said they didn't under produce, I said that the rep is spewing corporate BS to cover that fact. There's a reason GW reps have a bad reputation.
Warhammer community twitter stated point blank yesterday that they're not expecting Cursed City to return online, and the facebook comments on GW pages saying it's a permanent range item have now been deleted. Ooops...
Automatically Appended Next Post: The vindication feels pretty great though, not gonna lie.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh and Cursed City is now gone from the webstore rather than just unavailable.
Opened my box yesterday, and realized that they have, yet again, changed the format for the cards. I could understand if there was some nefarious GW plan at work to sell us overpriced sleeves (and I would definitely fall for it being a compulsive fool and all), but they don't even do that!
On the other hand, there are some standard sizes used, so all may not be lost.
For those interested, here are the dimensions I noted:
- Empowerment (24) / Encounter (16) / Exploration (19) / Mortis (8) : standard size (Magic)
- Initiative (8) : same size as the BSF ones (Mini American I think, the old FFG Yellow)
- Discovery (35) : those are different from BSF, but are a standard format (57x89, Standard American)
- Traits (8) : this is a new size (65x100), apparently compatible with 7 Wonders sleeves ???
- Characters/Enemies : slightly larger than the BSF equivalent, moving from 105x147 to 110x150. This one is the one I'm most irritated about.
Argive wrote: Their whole business practice is all sort of whack.
They are perfectly happy to make limited run of plastic injected molds for all sorts of stuff, commemorative models, SM #43, random obscure side game I.e. Blood bowl etc.
But they dont support their bread and butter games like 40k.
Well, this is laughable.
Firstly, just because you don't play it, doesn't make Blood Bowl (or Necromunda, or Titanicus) a "random obscure side game" - they're established franchises, to one degree or other, with some really dedicated fanbases. The closest to a game you might have a point on is Aeronautica Imperialis, and even that is a v2 of a game initially produced by FW.
And Blood Bowl, the one specifically being called out, is arguably the largest of those established ones too,
A constant huge fan base with living rules even when GW stopped doing stuff for it, which only came back bigger really.
Argive wrote: Their whole business practice is all sort of whack.
They are perfectly happy to make limited run of plastic injected molds for all sorts of stuff, commemorative models, SM #43, random obscure side game I.e. Blood bowl etc.
But they dont support their bread and butter games like 40k.
Well, this is laughable.
Firstly, just because you don't play it, doesn't make Blood Bowl (or Necromunda, or Titanicus) a "random obscure side game" - they're established franchises, to one degree or other, with some really dedicated fanbases. The closest to a game you might have a point on is Aeronautica Imperialis, and even that is a v2 of a game initially produced by FW.
And Blood Bowl, the one specifically being called out, is arguably the largest of those established ones too,
A constant huge fan base with living rules even when GW stopped doing stuff for it, which only came back bigger really.
My understanding is Blood Bowl was a pretty big seller when it came out a few years back and part of the reason GW are now willing to branch out more into non-core games.
They did, after all, give it a 2nd edition with all new models and rulebooks even though the rules barely changed. They wouldn't have done that if it wasn't a big seller.
AI has unfortunately become the red headed step child, it was a game I really wanted GW to remake but they screwed up the rules when they did it, so now it only appeals to collectors. It could have been a cool tournament style game, but what on the surface looked like minor rules changes really butchered how the game plays.
Togusa wrote: Yes, I am for real. Because I heard that exact quote over the phone between my local store owner and his GW rep. The rep said "We had no idea that there would be THIS much of an interest in the product and we're scrambling to fill orders as we speak. I know that you ordered 10 boxes, however I can only send you four."
You actually believed that? That's the worst BS corporate ass covering excuse that could ever exist. GW knew exactly how popular this would be thanks to previous Quest sales.
Expect we’ve seen them increasing sales by a huge amount since the last one was released.
Boxed Games are planned well in advance, so it’s easy for them to under produce. Hence the need for them to just bloody tell us, nice and straight, whether or not they’ll be producing more.
I never said they didn't under produce, I said that the rep is spewing corporate BS to cover that fact. There's a reason GW reps have a bad reputation.
I dunno man. I choose to not be a cynic about it.
In GW's case you should always be as cynical as possible.
Togusa wrote: Yes, I am for real. Because I heard that exact quote over the phone between my local store owner and his GW rep. The rep said "We had no idea that there would be THIS much of an interest in the product and we're scrambling to fill orders as we speak. I know that you ordered 10 boxes, however I can only send you four."
You actually believed that? That's the worst BS corporate ass covering excuse that could ever exist. GW knew exactly how popular this would be thanks to previous Quest sales.
Expect we’ve seen them increasing sales by a huge amount since the last one was released.
Boxed Games are planned well in advance, so it’s easy for them to under produce. Hence the need for them to just bloody tell us, nice and straight, whether or not they’ll be producing more.
I never said they didn't under produce, I said that the rep is spewing corporate BS to cover that fact. There's a reason GW reps have a bad reputation.
I dunno man. I choose to not be a cynic about it.
In GW's case you should always be as cynical as possible.
GW store workers, managers and reps are right up there for being a reliable source of information, I trust them so much, probably somewhere between politicians and used car salesmen.
(\sarcasm on the off chance someone doesn't realise )
Due to production issues this may end up being a one off print run with no expansions but they definitely did intend this to be a line item originally.
Due to production issues this may end up being a one off print run with no expansions but they definitely did intend this to be a line item originally.
What exactly about clothing merch makes you think it wasn't intended to be a one-off print?
Some people really dont want to read the writing on the wall here.
Its not coming back, it was never intended to be a line item either. Its just another step in the long game of whipping a preorder frenzy for the next big must buy box, and the one after that, and so on indefinitely. It works.
I wonder how many people who saved up for cursed city and missed out then spent the same money on other GW toys? Theres a reason GW make money hand over fist.
jullevi wrote: If I were GW, I would be tempted to accept the win and move on too. Selling out is not exactly bad for business if the amount of copies sold was enough to turn in massive profit. I think it was.
I mean aside from the backlash they'll get from the community over this.
GW haven't shown themselves to be especially concerned with 'backlash' historically.
And the community have an absolutely appalling record of maintaining any sort of backlash for longer than the next shiny new release, even if any significant number even care in the first place.
Yeah, what are they going to do about it, NOT buy the newest space marine GW dangles in front of their face? GW has hard data proving they can do whatever they want and their sales will keep rising, a doormat has more backbone than your average GW fan.
Remember the price hike five minutes before 9th was announced? "GW have now priced me out of the hobby and during a pandemic too!" Those claims lasted all of a fly's lifespan before "OMG Indomitus looks GLORIOUS!!! I must pre-order two boxes just for the Primaris!!!"
No doubt they'll put out a Community post saying they've listened and will make Cursed City a Made-to-Order release in the future and people will say it's proof how wonderful Nu!GW is at listening and they'll buy three boxes as thanks or something.
Well, I mean... Indomitus was the last thing I've bought from GW, so...
Luke82 wrote: Some people really dont want to read the writing on the wall here.
Its not coming back, it was never intended to be a line item either. Its just another step in the long game of whipping a preorder frenzy for the next big must buy box, and the one after that, and so on indefinitely. It works.
I wonder how many people who saved up for cursed city and missed out then spent the same money on other GW toys? Theres a reason GW make money hand over fist.
And you can bet they will whine, but regardless buy the next new shiny Geedubs product.
Well that sucks, I wish they could have communicated that better [which generally they have been]. I guess it might be due to the limits of production currently and the fact they are gearing up for AoS3 in a few months [which apparently has an Indomitus style box as well]. I was lucky enough to get a box- the models are gorgeous so its a shame its not going to be more widely available. you'd like to think they could bring it back later but I reckon the production juggernaut won't allow it.
silverstu wrote: Well that sucks, I wish they could have communicated that better [which generally they have been]. I guess it might be due to the limits of production currently and the fact they are gearing up for AoS3 in a few months [which apparently has an Indomitus style box as well]. I was lucky enough to get a box- the models are gorgeous so its a shame its not going to be more widely available. you'd like to think they could bring it back later but I reckon the production juggernaut won't allow it.
Do you seriously believe it's due to "limits of production" ? And more importantly, do you seriously plan to continue supporting them after this whole thing?
I'm not sure if it matters or not, but I did notice thumbing through my copy that the warscrolls sheets in the box are dated November 2020. Makes me think this box is being released several months later than originally intended.
Luke82 wrote: Some people really dont want to read the writing on the wall here.
Its not coming back, it was never intended to be a line item either. Its just another step in the long game of whipping a preorder frenzy for the next big must buy box, and the one after that, and so on indefinitely. It works.
I wonder how many people who saved up for cursed city and missed out then spent the same money on other GW toys? Theres a reason GW make money hand over fist.
But honestly, nothing pointed to this being a limited release. Because BSF was (or still is) widely available, they want to sell expansions and even if the templates are there, it still costs money to get that microsite live for a game that will only see one run. And they usually say way more often "hey, this is limited, get it fast!". And the switch in communication from this is a line item
It really is baffling, because it sure would make more than it's money back as a line item. I didn't try to get one, because I didn't have the funds and really expected to be around longer.
And I can't get how it was clear for some people, that this would be limited, when no Quest game before ever was. It doesn't really seem planned.
silverstu wrote: Well that sucks, I wish they could have communicated that better [which generally they have been]. I guess it might be due to the limits of production currently and the fact they are gearing up for AoS3 in a few months [which apparently has an Indomitus style box as well]. I was lucky enough to get a box- the models are gorgeous so its a shame its not going to be more widely available. you'd like to think they could bring it back later but I reckon the production juggernaut won't allow it.
Do you seriously believe it's due to "limits of production" ? And more importantly, do you seriously plan to continue supporting them after this whole thing?
Yes... Do you believe they have infinite production capacity during a pandemic? And its one game/product -they didn't murder my da or anything. If they produce something else I like and want to buy- I will buy it. Its just a game, I'm not entitled to own everything I want, they are not obligated to produce everything I want. They are an international company with multiple lines, a vast range of products with a major release coming up in the next few months with a new edition to the second of their core range. They are already struggling to meet demand for their existing products - what's not to understand?? They have been extremely poor in communicating that its a sell out and won't be back but thats it.
I would normally defend GW until the cows come home, and it's possible there are reasons we don't know about that explain the situation, but I have to admit I'm sat here scratching my head on this one.
How could they get this so wrong? Production issues aside why would they repeatedly say it will be a stock item when, clearly, it's not?
Their comms on this has been sub-par but this isn't the first time the Warhammer Community team have sent out misleading comms (the re-released KT sets for example).
But the other thing that strikes me as odd is the lost potential with Cursed City.
It's not a bad game by any stretch (it does rip off elements from other games like Massive Darkness) and the minis are not only gorgeous but also, obviously, designed with non-hobbyists in mind.
This would have been a great "gateway" game into the hobby if they could have got it out into stores that don't usually sell GW stuff but do sell board-games.
However, having it sell out in minutes on their own webstore and then not being able to supply bricks and mortar stores means that the the only people that actually bought it are people already familar with the IP.
But, anecdotally, taking myself as an example. I have no interest in AoS (because I have too much unpainted 40K stuff) but do like board-games.
I bought Cursed City as a one off because, hey, who doesn't love vampires and zombies?
But then, I bought the Crimson Court and am now looking at skeleton and vampire models and before I know it I will probably have an AoS undead army. Or at least I might start playing Warcry.
How many other new players could they have attracted with this set?
I think something must have gone wrong with this release, no idea what, but I cannot fathom why this didn't automatically become a range item, even if it was a webstore/WarhammerWorld exclusive.
I am also concerned that the expansions mentioned in the core set may never see the light of day.
Togusa wrote: Yes, I am for real. Because I heard that exact quote over the phone between my local store owner and his GW rep. The rep said "We had no idea that there would be THIS much of an interest in the product and we're scrambling to fill orders as we speak. I know that you ordered 10 boxes, however I can only send you four."
You actually believed that? That's the worst BS corporate ass covering excuse that could ever exist. GW knew exactly how popular this would be thanks to previous Quest sales.
Expect we’ve seen them increasing sales by a huge amount since the last one was released.
Boxed Games are planned well in advance, so it’s easy for them to under produce. Hence the need for them to just bloody tell us, nice and straight, whether or not they’ll be producing more.
I never said they didn't under produce, I said that the rep is spewing corporate BS to cover that fact. There's a reason GW reps have a bad reputation.
I dunno man. I choose to not be a cynic about it.
In GW's case you should always be as cynical as possible.
That is your choice. I'm not going to jump on the GW hate train simply because it's the current "in thing."
Apparently GW though they had enough copies of Cursed City to last them 3-6 months, but they all sold out pretty much straight away.
Right now there is an unknown, serious problem with their warehouse - orders haven't gone out to FLGS or GW stores in the last few days, and some have been advised it'll be next week before they get stuff (so a lot of people won't be getting their pre-orders this weekend).
I don't see it as the end of a pre-order wave.
All of Warhammer Quest has gone from GW's store page, apart from BSF main box, which is 'Temporarily out of stock Online'. The expansions have gone.
If Warhammer Quest was printed by a dfferrent supplier to the usual GW stuff, I guess this is something legal. Usually, the end of a pre-order run stay us, sometimes for years.
StraightSilver wrote: I would normally defend GW until the cows come home, and it's possible there are reasons we don't know about that explain the situation, but I have to admit I'm sat here scratching my head on this one.
How could they get this so wrong? Production issues aside why would they repeatedly say it will be a stock item when, clearly, it's not?
Their comms on this has been sub-par but this isn't the first time the Warhammer Community team have sent out misleading comms (the re-released KT sets for example).
But the other thing that strikes me as odd is the lost potential with Cursed City.
It's not a bad game by any stretch (it does rip off elements from other games like Massive Darkness) and the minis are not only gorgeous but also, obviously, designed with non-hobbyists in mind.
This would have been a great "gateway" game into the hobby if they could have got it out into stores that don't usually sell GW stuff but do sell board-games.
However, having it sell out in minutes on their own webstore and then not being able to supply bricks and mortar stores means that the the only people that actually bought it are people already familar with the IP.
But, anecdotally, taking myself as an example. I have no interest in AoS (because I have too much unpainted 40K stuff) but do like board-games.
I bought Cursed City as a one off because, hey, who doesn't love vampires and zombies?
But then, I bought the Crimson Court and am now looking at skeleton and vampire models and before I know it I will probably have an AoS undead army. Or at least I might start playing Warcry.
How many other new players could they have attracted with this set?
I think something must have gone wrong with this release, no idea what, but I cannot fathom why this didn't automatically become a range item, even if it was a webstore/WarhammerWorld exclusive.
I am also concerned that the expansions mentioned in the core set may never see the light of day.
Nothing went wrong. This was clearly all planned to maximize profit.
I mean, why no more copies being made? What’s the point in that? The vast majority of production costs are already sunk, and I suspect they’ve also been recovered because it’s sold out (you don’t spend £10 to limit your return to £9 after all!)
I’m seriously wondering if something has happened behind the scenes, but I can think what that might be. If there was some kind of copyright issue, I’m fairly sure we’d have heard about it, spesh as the likes of SpikeyBitz and BoLS will publish any old poop.
Is there the possibility of over ordering? Well. Sure. But then they’ve done Made To Order before. And literally none of the previous Quest games were such a limited release.
Apparently GW though they had enough copies of Cursed City to last them 3-6 months, but they all sold out pretty much straight away.
Right now there is an unknown, serious problem with their warehouse - orders haven't gone out to FLGS or GW stores in the last few days, and some have been advised it'll be next week before they get stuff (so a lot of people won't be getting their pre-orders this weekend).
For the issue you mentioned, I was told today by my FLGS that my order is delayed for a month. He gave me no explanation and when I asked for details he said they gave him nothing.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I’m seriously wondering if something has happened behind the scenes, but I can't think what that might be. If there was some kind of copyright issue, I’m fairly sure we’d have heard about it, spesh as the likes of SpikeyBitz and BoLS will publish any old poop.
That's my guess.
It doesn't look right. Even for GW.
Was Cursed City listed on the GW Community site? BSF is, CG is not.
I am also concerned that the expansions mentioned in the core set may never see the light of day.
What are you referring to? Core Set?
The Cursed City Rulebook and Quest book (which I considered to be the core set) state that Cursed City is the first in a planned set of adventures in Ulfenkarn and make reference to at least 2 expansions. Pretty sure the map on the Cursed City website also has locations not visited in the core set?
I am also concerned that the expansions mentioned in the core set may never see the light of day.
What are you referring to? Core Set?
The Cursed City Rulebook and Quest book (which I considered to be the core set) state that Cursed City is the first in a planned set of adventures in Ulfenkarn and make reference to at least 2 expansions. Pretty sure the map on the Cursed City website also has locations not visited in the core set?
Dude! I totally missed that. Thank you for pointing it out!
I am also concerned that the expansions mentioned in the core set may never see the light of day.
What are you referring to? Core Set?
The Cursed City Rulebook and Quest book (which I considered to be the core set) state that Cursed City is the first in a planned set of adventures in Ulfenkarn and make reference to at least 2 expansions. Pretty sure the map on the Cursed City website also has locations not visited in the core set?
This is weird. There's one possibility that means things haven't gone wrong, and that's that the intention is to to make a line of standalone but compatible WHQ games, that can be used to expand each other. That would explain the use of the terms "expansion" in the rule books, and the misunderstanding about it being part of "an ongoing line". WHQ will be an ongoing line, and the games will be compatible with each other, but that doesn't mean any specific box will stick around forever. Sort of like how Silver Tower and Hammerhal worked, but designed from the ground-up that way. There may even be "expansions" that add new heroes or enemies or quests that can work with any base box - sort of like how Shadows of Brimstone works.
Any other explanation means things have gone wrong. One possibility is they've always been planning to release models like much of this set as standalone sets. Obviously not the same sprues, but much like with Silver Tower - the Tzeentch line that came out after didn't use those sprues but clearly built on the sculpting and design work already done. The issue is, once you do that then the demand for the Cursed City box will drop hugely. People might still want it for the game or just to have cool minis to paint, but it's not selling to folk who just want new Skellies or whatever. So you have to sell most of your Cursed City boxes first. But unlike your mini production, your board game production involves stuff in China, which is problematic for a huge number of reasons at the moment, COVID, Brexit, all that stuff. Production is being delayed everywhere. It's not a problem if they're planning a reprint of Cursed City to wait six months for availabilty... unless you want to start selling similar minis in three months at which point it is.
The other possibility is we know these games are pretty much designed (in terms of the games mechanics themselves) by one person. If that person left GW it could put the entire plans for any expansions (and thus any reprints) on hold indefinitely.
The other possibility is we know these games are pretty much designed (in terms of the games mechanics themselves) by one person. If that person left GW it could put the entire plans for any expansions (and thus any reprints) on hold indefinitely.
Aye but the core set could still be sold and works totally on its own.
GW also keeps a huge amount of their infrastructure internal, far as I'm aware almost everything would be held by them, about the only thing that might not is some moulds being sent abroad for printing purposes IF They chose to do that with the models. Otherwise everything would be internal to GW save for the cardstock which, as said, should be computer files on a computer so GW could easily change printing firms.
It does seem really odd as if something has suddenly changed in the last week or so. However if it was something that major I'd expect some kind of information leak to have happened; unless its really high up and almost no one below has a clue, but then I'd expect that to be leaking out.
I don't get the idea at all either - heck I was expecting to be tempted into Cursed City then end up collecting a small Vampire force along with the Underworld Warband and all that. Everything was setup for a soft build into a big Vampire release bolstered by everyone being super charged on getting Cursed City and making Vampires the "Necrons" of 2021. Even when you factor in delays and such, its odd that GW doesn't just say "we'll delay productoin sorry it will be 3 months before there's any more" as opposed to "just cancel it".
If there was legal challenge I'd have expected some news from the other party at the very least making public that they were challenging GW on this or something.
deano2099 wrote: The other possibility is we know these games are pretty much designed (in terms of the games mechanics themselves) by one person. If that person left GW it could put the entire plans for any expansions (and thus any reprints) on hold indefinitely.
Titanicus & Necromunda both got stuff after James Hewitt left (he also did Silver Tower, but I can't remember if that got anything).
Letting people think that a thing is a limited run while it is not to maximise sales by FOMO is scummy but would makes some sense. Doing it other way around makes zero sense. This is really baffling.
Overread wrote: If there was legal challenge I'd have expected some news from the other party at the very least making public that they were challenging GW on this or something
Yeah - if there was a legal issue or accident/incident in the warehouse some news would have leaked. If it was something minor like a loading bay door jamming it shouldn't have this kind of impact.
Crazy thing is, if it was them genuinely underestimating demand, that’s not actually a massive problem
They’d just need to schedule in some additional production time for the sprues, and get the printed works printed. And that doesn’t need to be done in China. For Made to Order, there’s precisely nothing stopping them from using a British Printer. What it would cost in money, it would save in time, allowing them to get it on shelves again in the quickest time possible.
Wild theory - someone was carrying the Forgeworld new guns for AT moulds and the Cursed City moulds - slipped and slid straight into the cabinet that the masters for those models were housed in.
Whilst picking themselves up they knocked a glass off a tabletop which fell onto a PC tower which housed all the data for those models. They then stepped on the back-up external harddrive.
Thus obliterating all data and moulds and masters in one fell swoop.
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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Crazy thing is, if it was them genuinely underestimating demand, that’s not actually a massive problem
They’d just need to schedule in some additional production time for the sprues, and get the printed works printed. And that doesn’t need to be done in China. For Made to Order, there’s precisely nothing stopping them from using a British Printer. What it would cost in money, it would save in time, allowing them to get it on shelves again in the quickest time possible.
Plus people are understanding. They waited 6 months or so for Indomitus print 2.0 and I'm sure many would be more than happy to wait just as long for a reprint of Cursed City. Heck if you knew it was coming you might even pick up expansions released inside that 6 month window to be ready.
Are the printed materials in the set made in China? I know they're usually made in China, just curious if they were in this set also, given all of covid it might have pushed them to a British manufacturer anyway?
Togusa wrote: Yes, I am for real. Because I heard that exact quote over the phone between my local store owner and his GW rep. The rep said "We had no idea that there would be THIS much of an interest in the product and we're scrambling to fill orders as we speak. I know that you ordered 10 boxes, however I can only send you four."
You actually believed that? That's the worst BS corporate ass covering excuse that could ever exist. GW knew exactly how popular this would be thanks to previous Quest sales.
Expect we’ve seen them increasing sales by a huge amount since the last one was released.
Boxed Games are planned well in advance, so it’s easy for them to under produce. Hence the need for them to just bloody tell us, nice and straight, whether or not they’ll be producing more.
I never said they didn't under produce, I said that the rep is spewing corporate BS to cover that fact. There's a reason GW reps have a bad reputation.
I dunno man. I choose to not be a cynic about it.
In GW's case you should always be as cynical as possible.
That is your choice. I'm not going to jump on the GW hate train simply because it's the current "in thing."
Hating GW isn't a fad, people have been doing it for decades
But this is less about hating GW and more about realising that a sales rep that deals with individual local stores likely has absolutely no insight into the expectations of the decision makers at GW. Ergo, they are likely talking out of their arse, and the "we were so surprised" is typical sales rep BS that you'd expect them to say whilst talking out their arse.
Togusa wrote: Yes, I am for real. Because I heard that exact quote over the phone between my local store owner and his GW rep. The rep said "We had no idea that there would be THIS much of an interest in the product and we're scrambling to fill orders as we speak. I know that you ordered 10 boxes, however I can only send you four."
You actually believed that? That's the worst BS corporate ass covering excuse that could ever exist. GW knew exactly how popular this would be thanks to previous Quest sales.
Expect we’ve seen them increasing sales by a huge amount since the last one was released.
Boxed Games are planned well in advance, so it’s easy for them to under produce. Hence the need for them to just bloody tell us, nice and straight, whether or not they’ll be producing more.
I never said they didn't under produce, I said that the rep is spewing corporate BS to cover that fact. There's a reason GW reps have a bad reputation.
I dunno man. I choose to not be a cynic about it.
In GW's case you should always be as cynical as possible.
That is your choice. I'm not going to jump on the GW hate train simply because it's the current "in thing."
I'm not jumping on the GW hate train, i've been on it for a good few years, i'm basically a conductor by now.
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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Crazy thing is, if it was them genuinely underestimating demand, that’s not actually a massive problem
They’d just need to schedule in some additional production time for the sprues, and get the printed works printed. And that doesn’t need to be done in China. For Made to Order, there’s precisely nothing stopping them from using a British Printer. What it would cost in money, it would save in time, allowing them to get it on shelves again in the quickest time possible.
In that case, GW is just monumentally stupid, if they keep underestimating demand, after continiously underestimating demand for boxes for a few years straight. I mean, you'd think they'd learn by now.
Overread wrote: Wild theory - someone was carrying the Forgeworld new guns for AT moulds and the Cursed City moulds - slipped and slid straight into the cabinet that the masters for those models were housed in.
Whilst picking themselves up they knocked a glass off a tabletop which fell onto a PC tower which housed all the data for those models. They then stepped on the back-up external harddrive.
Thus obliterating all data and moulds and masters in one fell swoop.
GW seriously used this exact excuse at least twice in my lifetime (original plastic Battlewagon and a Dwarf Lord which was supposed to be like the third ever plastic single character after the SM Commander and Empire General).
Here's my not super likely, but serious theory. Someone higher up than the usual decision makers made a last minute call to curb what would otherwise be an eternal sequence of cascading delays by, with a heavy heart, axing a large but tertiary pruduct line.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Crazy thing is, if it was them genuinely underestimating demand, that’s not actually a massive problem
They’d just need to schedule in some additional production time for the sprues, and get the printed works printed. And that doesn’t need to be done in China. For Made to Order, there’s precisely nothing stopping them from using a British Printer. What it would cost in money, it would save in time, allowing them to get it on shelves again in the quickest time possible.
In that case, GW is just monumentally stupid, if they keep underestimating demand, after continiously underestimating demand for boxes for a few years straight. I mean, you'd think they'd learn by now.
Or demand has continuously increased for two years straight.
We don't really know how many they sold or how many they could have sold, GW themselves likely have a better idea of that.
Crimson wrote: Letting people think that a thing is a limited run while it is not to maximise sales by FOMO is scummy but would makes some sense. Doing it other way around makes zero sense. This is really baffling.
True. And especially so since it was an obvious lead in to the vampire army that's coming.
This was one of those rare moments where GW actually had workable and useful cross-game plans in mind. Or seemed to, at least. Maybe that's why they screwed it up? Too much competence at the planning stage?
Souleater wrote: Following the above theory by @Lord_blackfang about cascading delays ....
Could this be to do with them ensuring they have capacity for the rumoured AOS 3 starter or the main Soulblight release?
Puzzling why they wouldn't say that they would eventually bring it back, though.
The thing is there's a difference between "We need production time for X so we can't reprint Cursed City for a few months" and "lets just drop it".
Right now we seem to be in the latter, which seems really odd considering all the marketing leading up to it. 3rd party stores were preparing for second waves (even if not told that tells you staff were expecting it); customers were not panicked about it going out of stock so fast because, again, we all expected restocks. Even if they are in months and months.
If GW was going to put those vampire sprue into the new Battletome/starter set/3rd edition tie in then they already knew that well in advance of starting the Cursed City marketing and could easily say "hey Cursed City is gone but don't worry models will return "soon". Plus they would have and could have crafted their marketing to reflect that aspect.
Right now it seems like GW doesn't even fully know, as if its own system is reeling from some very short term impact that's produced this result. Heck on the GW community site Blackstone is listed under the Quest licence, but not Cursed City.
Luke82 wrote: Some people really dont want to read the writing on the wall here.
What writing on the wall? It was the next in the Warhammer Quest line, none of which have been limited releases, and all of which have received expansions in some form or another (BSF moreso than the other two).
At no point was this fiasco in any way predictable nor foreshadowed or even hidden in plain sight.
I mean, why no more copies being made? What’s the point in that? The vast majority of production costs are already sunk, and I suspect they’ve also been recovered because it’s sold out (you don’t spend £10 to limit your return to £9 after all!)
I’m seriously wondering if something has happened behind the scenes, but I can think what that might be. If there was some kind of copyright issue, I’m fairly sure we’d have heard about it, spesh as the likes of SpikeyBitz and BoLS will publish any old poop.
Is there the possibility of over ordering? Well. Sure. But then they’ve done Made To Order before. And literally none of the previous Quest games were such a limited release.
I just don’t understand this.
They don't want to raise price to eu set for 2nd print run and deal with tariffs? If too much of product is made in china it's tariff. If this was supposed to be last year release that would not have been known yet but now gw would need to pay for tariff for every eu box.
Or simply planned to take advantage of fomo. Gw doesn't want to sit with boxes in warehouses and models can be sold later at higher price. Normal for gw to produce cheaper box limited and models separately higher price later
I think he's talking about the recent developments that are pointing more and more to the "no second reprint" of the box that a part of the community doesn't believe.
Confusion is real but yeah...when they begin to remove the facebook posts, confirm on twitter and make every mention of the box on their webstore disappear, it's true that it's beginning to be a lot...
That’s what I was wondering, if having the card components printed in China have meant that the board game is now subject to additional tax to the originating country rules (if it’s done on weight or bulk then the card would trump the model sprues). The increase in shipping costs from China may also be eating into the boardgame profits.
Might mean they are looking at alternate card component factories in the UK but they are also likely to be more costly and GW may not be able to commit to reprints at this time due as it’s all too uncertain.
If this is the case then hopefully an expansion or two was ready at the printing stage so will see release.
It’s certainly possible they’ve had the now sold stock sitting in their warehouse since before Brexit fully Brexited.
As for country of origin? Box says U.K., and I can’t see anything contradicting that. I was previously under the impression they previously listed differing COO where appropriate?
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: It’s certainly possible they’ve had the now sold stock sitting in their warehouse since before Brexit fully Brexited.
As for country of origin? Box says U.K., and I can’t see anything contradicting that. I was previously under the impression they previously listed differing COO where appropriate?
It was specifically the tiles I thought may have been printed in China as they have typically been something that is very expensive to print in the UK. I can't get to my copy to check but I suspect they wont list where they are printed on them.
I think he's talking about the recent developments that are pointing more and more to the "no second reprint" of the box that a part of the community doesn't believe.
Confusion is real but yeah...when they begin to remove the facebook posts, confirm on twitter and make every mention of the box on their webstore disappear, it's true that it's beginning to be a lot...
Writing on the wall is indeed an adage relating to future rather than past events.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: It’s certainly possible they’ve had the now sold stock sitting in their warehouse since before Brexit fully Brexited.
As for country of origin? Box says U.K., and I can’t see anything contradicting that. I was previously under the impression they previously listed differing COO where appropriate?
It lists uk if final product is assembled. But if it contains parts from other countries it can still rue foul coo rule. That's why uk gov wanted parts from japan count for it as otherwise made in uk cars would be hit by tarifs.
These davs very little is produced without something coming elsewhere. Item done in gesman,, shipped to uk, made to another, shipped to french, another proce#s, shipped to uk etc. This worked smoothly pre-brexit, now gone,
If too much of cc was made in china it's tariff. Doesn't matter if most including final assedbly was uk.
Luke82 wrote: Some people really dont want to read the writing on the wall here.
What writing on the wall? It was the next in the Warhammer Quest line, none of which have been limited releases, and all of which have received expansions in some form or another (BSF moreso than the other two).
At no point was this fiasco in any way predictable nor foreshadowed or even hidden in plain sight.
As others i said I meant the massive clues that this is gone now, not that this was forshadowed... im as perplexed that this happened as well. But it does seem some people are doing some intense wishful thinking that this isnt gone.
Temporarily unavailable; yeah but its coming back
No longer available; yeah but its coming back
Warhammer community directly says its not coming back; yeah but its coming back
Box disappears completely from website; yeah but its coming back
At some point we have to accept that GW pulled a scuzzy trick on everyone (again).
Regarding expansions, don't forget Gw lead times. They usually produce minis 2 years in advance and rules a year in advance. Given that this box was intended to be released in November, any expansion intended to be released within 18 months of the main game would already be completed by now.
I don't see any reason why they would cancel planned expansion support even if they never sell another copy of the base game.
Did Blackstone Fortress ever sell through its first print run?
As 40k is their major cash cow they probably didn't expect Cursed City to sell better than Blackstone. Obviously they are wrong if they thought that.
Gw may want to do a second print run but it's entirely possible there won't be a window for it for months. They have a Necromunda starter set, AoS 3rd edition and maybe a Horus Heresy starter all scheduled for the next few months and they are already struggling to keep up with demand for their regular kits.
It's also entirely possible they have a serious warehouse problem. Maybe there was a covid outbreak or a bunch of stock got damaged or there really was a lot of stock stuck in the Suez canal.
The thing that I think gw don't get is that most customers would be ok if gw just came out and said they weren't sure when the game could come back in stock. Right now it all feels deliberately deceitful.
Luke82 wrote: Some people really dont want to read the writing on the wall here.
What writing on the wall? It was the next in the Warhammer Quest line, none of which have been limited releases, and all of which have received expansions in some form or another (BSF moreso than the other two).
At no point was this fiasco in any way predictable nor foreshadowed or even hidden in plain sight.
Writing on wall is referring to it not coming back. Not it being foreshadowable.
People still believe it's coming back. But writing is on wall. Best people can hope is models coming back separately(and w/higher price)
Overread wrote: Wild theory - someone was carrying the Forgeworld new guns for AT moulds and the Cursed City moulds - slipped and slid straight into the cabinet that the masters for those models were housed in.
Whilst picking themselves up they knocked a glass off a tabletop which fell onto a PC tower which housed all the data for those models. They then stepped on the back-up external harddrive.
Thus obliterating all data and moulds and masters in one fell swoop.
GW seriously used this exact excuse at least twice in my lifetime (original plastic Battlewagon and a Dwarf Lord which was supposed to be like the third ever plastic single character after the SM Commander and Empire General).
Here's my not super likely, but serious theory. Someone higher up than the usual decision makers made a last minute call to curb what would otherwise be an eternal sequence of cascading delays by, with a heavy heart, axing a large but tertiary pruduct line.
Actually, that does sound like the most likely theory I've heard. That sounds totally reasonable, actually. We know they are behind schedule of where they planned to be. I'm sure all their factory time is booked up. So it's not just a matter of "why not make more of Cursed City because you know you can sell more". It's, will it make more than the thing you'll have to bump? Considering most people that want it already got it so you'll sell less than the first run, and the margins on these big box games probably aren't that high anyway, definitely not. Add in the bonus of also axing the planned expansions to Cursed City to move up more space marines that you know you'll sell a ton of, and it seems like the obvious choice.
tneva82 wrote: Incidentallv this looks to have been november release. That's how much behind we are
Blackstone Fortress was a mid-November pre-order with a late November release date (from memory), so that would make sense (and tie into likely Christmas gift sales).
via Kirton Games on facebook, but I've seen several other stores reporting similar issues without the picture of the message
this suggests something like a covid outbreak (close the warehouse for a few days, deep clean, wait for staff to be tested and see how many are available to come back in to work)
might not directly feed into this, but who knows maybe a bunch of the senior team went down with it first and no official word is because some of the folk needing to be involved in any official decision are off sick
That has been going on for a few weeks now. I received the message 2 weeks ago for a Piety & Pain box that I had ordered in the 2nd wave. GW finally shipped it out 2 days ago and I received it yesterday (and didn't mark it as shipped until today so there is a delay with updating the system as well).
jullevi wrote: If I were GW, I would be tempted to accept the win and move on too. Selling out is not exactly bad for business if the amount of copies sold was enough to turn in massive profit. I think it was.
I mean aside from the backlash they'll get from the community over this.
GW haven't shown themselves to be especially concerned with 'backlash' historically.
ord of maintaining any sort of backlash for longer than the next shiny new release, even if any significant number even care in the first place.
Yeah, what are they going to do about it, NOT buy the newest space marine GW dangles in front of their face? GW has hard data proving they can do whatever they want and their sales will keep rising, a doormat has more backbone than your average GW fan.
And the community have an absolutely appalling rec
Remember the price hike five minutes before 9th was announced? "GW have now priced me out of the hobby and during a pandemic too!" Those claims lasted all of a fly's lifespan before "OMG Indomitus looks GLORIOUS!!! I must pre-order two boxes just for the Primaris!!!"
No doubt they'll put out a Community post saying they've listened and will make Cursed City a Made-to-Order release in the future and people will say it's proof how wonderful Nu!GW is at listening and they'll buy three boxes as thanks or something.
Well, I mean... Indomitus was the last thing I've bought from GW, so...
That's only a week delay and I'm sure its likely so that GW can further streamline it for production during Covid times and shifts and changes at their back end. I also know that they were planning on closing their main warehouse at the Nottingham site and opening a bigger newer one so it could be part of that transfer swap over.
That said I'd be shocked if that's the reason to outright cancel any further stock of Cursed City
Chikout wrote: Regarding expansions, don't forget Gw lead times. They usually produce minis 2 years in advance and rules a year in advance. Given that this box was intended to be released in November, any expansion intended to be released within 18 months of the main game would already be completed by now.
I don't see any reason why they would cancel planned expansion support even if they never sell another copy of the base game.
Did Blackstone Fortress ever sell through its first print run?
As 40k is their major cash cow they probably didn't expect Cursed City to sell better than Blackstone. Obviously they are wrong if they thought that.
Gw may want to do a second print run but it's entirely possible there won't be a window for it for months. They have a Necromunda starter set, AoS 3rd edition and maybe a Horus Heresy starter all scheduled for the next few months and they are already struggling to keep up with demand for their regular kits.
It's also entirely possible they have a serious warehouse problem. Maybe there was a covid outbreak or a bunch of stock got damaged or there really was a lot of stock stuck in the Suez canal.
The thing that I think gw don't get is that most customers would be ok if gw just came out and said they weren't sure when the game could come back in stock. Right now it all feels deliberately deceitful.
That's because it IS deliberately deceitful. GW is known for that. And how could you possibly known Cursed City sold better than Blackstone Fortress? They very likely just made less of it, so they sell out faster. And supporting an extremely limited-time product you could buy for less than ten minutes, with future expansions, said expansions being useless on their own to anyone who doesn't have the original product is just moronic, as all of them are guaranteed to sell less than the original product, which was designed to sell out as fast as possible.
tneva82 wrote: All supplements sell less than main. If selling eqqal would be needing no supplement would ever be made for any game
The difference between Blackstone Fortress and Cursed City is that Cursed City will never sell a single unit more and Blackstone Fortress sold over the course of many years, so Blackstone Fortress supplements obviously sold way more than Cursed City supplements would.
tneva82 wrote: All supplements sell less than main. If selling eqqal would be needing no supplement would ever be made for any game
The difference between Blackstone Fortress and Cursed City is that Cursed City will never sell a single unit more and Blackstone Fortress sold over the course of many years, so Blackstone Fortress supplements obviously sold way more than Cursed City supplements would.
So it seems that the community team were, inadvertently, giving out incorrect information as it was intended to be a limited release.
Also speculation that, sadly, this was Brexit related.
GW lied and is trying to come up with an excuse to not be seen as liars, like always. I'm sure they will be like: "Oh guys we will do a reprint like Indomitus" as making us a favor. They're just playing us with FOMO and I hate it.
Just another thought, but could Cursed City have been short lived due to Blackstone Fortress being a greater success than expected?
Obviously GW can easily drop these products in favour of their replacement, but Blackstone was running through the worst of this pandemic, which has seen many players isolated - something BSF could cater to better than other GW games. Maybe the demand was so great that they decided to print the core BSF game for a while longer?
Even last year I asked them about the availabilty of BSF, and whether it would make it in time for Christmas, and they were in the process of printing out more copies - which turned up in mid-november. Surely, wouldn't that printing effort be allocated to Cursed City instead as it was the game to take over the Quest reins?
Even now, BSF is only "temporarily out of stock online" and Wayland keeps getting resupplied frequently with 10+ instock.
We are all adults here and we love to play with our plastic dollies but this Cursed box may well frustrate the hell out of most.
I mean you don't hype something for so long and in such detail to only sell it for a few hours and keep people wondering for days of a "normal" restock to only be dumped with a negative.
That is not Fomo, bad communication or incompetence that is borderline trolling.
SamusDrake wrote: Just another thought, but could Cursed City have been short lived due to Blackstone Fortress being a greater success than expected?
Obviously GW can easily drop these products in favour of their replacement, but Blackstone was running through the worst of this pandemic, which has seen many players isolated - something BSF could cater to better than other GW games. Maybe the demand was so great that they decided to print the core BSF game for a while longer?
Even last year I asked them about the availabilty of BSF, and whether it would make it in time for Christmas, and they were in the process of printing out more copies - which turned up in mid-november. Surely, wouldn't that printing effort be allocated to Cursed City instead as it was the game to take over the Quest reins?
Even now, BSF is only "temporarily out of stock online" and Wayland keeps getting resupplied frequently with 10+ instock.
I kinda see where you’re coming from, but I don’t think that’s the case.
There’s no reason they couldn’t keep both in production. Indeed if memory serves, Hammerhal was still available for some of BSF’s run.
This is why I can only think there is something odd going on here. If BSF still has a market, why wouldn’t Cursed City? It’s not one or the other.
As an aside.
Where do these things come from. No one knows these things but they always come up like it’s a thing.
“Apparently they had enough copies for 3-6 months but it all sold on preorder.”
“And apparently this was due out in November and we are five months behind production now” (after a total factory shutdown of somewhere between 4-6 months, but quick paced releases for a few months for catching up)
Luke82 wrote: As others i said I meant the massive clues that this is gone now, not that this was forshadowed
Ah. Fair enough then.
Luke82 wrote: Temporarily unavailable; yeah but its coming back No longer available; yeah but its coming back Warhammer community directly says its not coming back; yeah but its coming back Box disappears completely from website; yeah but its coming back
To be fair, the Warhammer Community team could tell me that Guilliman rose from stasis to lead a new crusade throughout the Imperium and I'd ask for a second opinion.
I just can't fathom releasing this game without planning expansions similar to BSF.
Something obviously went badly wrong. You don't make these expensive premium sculpts, tons of exclusive artwork, an entire website, a newsletter and then mention expansions within the rulebook only to do a very limited run where you sell very little actual units of a product that is only going to people who already buy your stuff.
Saying this is a ploy and exploiting FOMO severely misunderstands basic business and also how GW production works, as well as how they actually make money. The sheer investment on Cursed City was probably gigantic; too much for it to sell a couple hundred copies and then disappear forever.
Danny76 wrote: As an aside. Where do these things come from. No one knows these things but they always come up like it’s a thing.
“Apparently they had enough copies for 3-6 months but it all sold on preorder.”
“And apparently this was due out in November and we are five months behind production now” (after a total factory shutdown of somewhere between 4-6 months, but quick paced releases for a few months for catching up)
The 3-6 months comes from (informal / off-the-record) comments from GW retail staff - it's what they claim they were told. The November thing is apparently from their AoS rules - the points are dated November 2020.
Bosskelot wrote: Something obviously went badly wrong. You don't make these expensive premium sculpts, tons of exclusive artwork, an entire website, a newsletter and then mention expansions within the rulebook only to do a very limited run where you sell very little actual units of a product that is only going to people who already buy your stuff.
Saying this is a ploy and exploiting FOMO severely misunderstands basic business and also how GW production works, as well as how they actually make money. The sheer investment on Cursed City was probably gigantic; too much for it to sell a couple hundred copies and then disappear forever.
The sculpts aren't "premium", if anything they're basic compared to the usual GW flaming-cheeto-cloud sculpts main games get. The artwork on the tiles and in the book also looks like dime a dozen deviantart artwork. There's nothing "premium" about this product except marketing.
Danny76 wrote: As an aside.
Where do these things come from. No one knows these things but they always come up like it’s a thing.
“Apparently they had enough copies for 3-6 months but it all sold on preorder.”
“And apparently this was due out in November and we are five months behind production now” (after a total factory shutdown of somewhere between 4-6 months, but quick paced releases for a few months for catching up)
The 3-6 months comes from (informal / off-the-record) comments from GW retail staff - it's what they claim they were told. The November thing is apparently from their AoS rules - the points are dated November 2020.
Ok, both circumstantial and anecdotal.
We’ve had rules dated in the past a while before released. Particularly as they were done by a different team, they will have done it whenever suits them and they got the models given to start working on etc..
Regarding GW staff being told things, all over this thread people are arguing both sides of the discussion using stuff they said as evidence.
And we know from past that they know little in reality. Staffers on here have said as much.
Bosskelot wrote: Something obviously went badly wrong. You don't make these expensive premium sculpts, tons of exclusive artwork, an entire website, a newsletter and then mention expansions within the rulebook only to do a very limited run where you sell very little actual units of a product that is only going to people who already buy your stuff.
Saying this is a ploy and exploiting FOMO severely misunderstands basic business and also how GW production works, as well as how they actually make money. The sheer investment on Cursed City was probably gigantic; too much for it to sell a couple hundred copies and then disappear forever.
GW must be the least fortunate company in the world given how often things go badly wrong for them then.
I kinda see where you’re coming from, but I don’t think that’s the case.
There’s no reason they couldn’t keep both in production. Indeed if memory serves, Hammerhal was still available for some of BSF’s run.
This is why I can only think there is something odd going on here. If BSF still has a market, why wouldn’t Cursed City? It’s not one or the other.
If it weren't for the long delay on releases, I'd agree.
For example, this week's Titanicus preorders feel like they should have been christmas releases.
And as for this weeks preorders, Wayland have given all the GW releases a warning, which I've not seen before; "This product will have limited stock at release but will be restocked at a later date to fulfil all orders." It honestly sounds like GW are struggling to the point where they have to make hard decisions to continue a game.
Bosskelot wrote: Something obviously went badly wrong. You don't make these expensive premium sculpts, tons of exclusive artwork, an entire website, a newsletter and then mention expansions within the rulebook only to do a very limited run where you sell very little actual units of a product that is only going to people who already buy your stuff.
Saying this is a ploy and exploiting FOMO severely misunderstands basic business and also how GW production works, as well as how they actually make money. The sheer investment on Cursed City was probably gigantic; too much for it to sell a couple hundred copies and then disappear forever.
Ah yes the horrible, horrible investment of a few molds, plastic worth 5 pounds and a bunch of cardboards.
Danny76 wrote: As an aside.
Where do these things come from. No one knows these things but they always come up like it’s a thing.
“Apparently they had enough copies for 3-6 months but it all sold on preorder.”
“And apparently this was due out in November and we are five months behind production now” (after a total factory shutdown of somewhere between 4-6 months, but quick paced releases for a few months for catching up)
November thing comes from points being marked correct as of novembei 2020
Bosskelot wrote: Something obviously went badly wrong. You don't make these expensive premium sculpts, tons of exclusive artwork, an entire website, a newsletter and then mention expansions within the rulebook only to do a very limited run where you sell very little actual units of a product that is only going to people who already buy your stuff.
Saying this is a ploy and exploiting FOMO severely misunderstands basic business and also how GW production works, as well as how they actually make money. The sheer investment on Cursed City was probably gigantic; too much for it to sell a couple hundred copies and then disappear forever.
Ah yes the horrible, horrible investment of a few molds, plastic worth 5 pounds and a bunch of cardboards.
Molds costing easily 6 digits. And yes obviously gw is paying zero wages to workers
I can fully understand "our factories were massively impacted by Covid shutdowns and we can't make any more without further disrupting our already completely busted schedule" - but this approach of "we burned down the molds, deleted the files and for good measure purged everyone involved on the project" is just weird for something they clearly invested a lot of effort in.
If they just came out and said "Virus bad mmmk - we underestimated demand but we'll have some more in six-twelve months" I think people would be upset but ultimately understanding.
Arguments about returns seem weird - because the marginal cost of the materials is almost nothing. You've put in all the sunk costs.
Tyel wrote: I can fully understand "our factories were massively impacted by Covid shutdowns and we can't make any more without further disrupting our already completely busted schedule" - but this approach of "we burned down the molds, deleted the files and for good measure purged everyone involved on the project" is just weird for something they clearly invested a lot of effort in.
If they just came out and said "Virus bad mmmk - we underestimated demand but we'll have some more in six-twelve months" I think people would be upset but ultimately understanding.
Arguments about returns seem weird - because the marginal cost of the materials is almost nothing. You've put in all the sunk costs.
Who said they burners moulds? If they are alredy struggling to keeg production keep up they have more profitable stuff to produce in 6 months. Moulds sell most when released anyway. After 3 months sale focus shifte d and sales trickle anyway
Especially if every eu sale is hit by tariffs either they need to increase price significantly or profij margin sinks.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: If BSF still has a market, why wouldn’t Cursed City? It’s not one or the other.
Not to mention that if BSF still has a market, why don't its expansions?
H.B.M.C. wrote: I just can't fathom releasing this game without planning expansions similar to BSF.
I don't have a copy to check, as I was going to wait for the initial rush to die down, but I've seen a few people mention that the books in the box explicitly mention that there will be expansions.
Whether that still happens is another matter entirely, of course.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Ah yes the horrible, horrible investment of a few molds, plastic worth 5 pounds and a bunch of cardboards.
Thank you for explicitly confirming that you don't know what the hell you're talking about.
Man, these moulds keep going up in price every time someone mentions them. Soon it will be a million pounds per mould, which is why GW produces one-off limited edition store-anniversary models this way...
Man, these moulds keep going up in price every time someone mentions them. Soon it will be a million pounds per mould, which is why GW produces one-off limited edition store-anniversary models this way...
Shhh no. Plastic moulds prohibitively expensive. Finecast like moon landing. Just drink the KoolAid.
Man, these moulds keep going up in price every time someone mentions them. Soon it will be a million pounds per mould, which is why GW produces one-off limited edition store-anniversary models this way...
Shhh no. Plastic moulds prohibitively expensive. Finecast like moon landing. Just drink the KoolAid.
Steel injection molding molds usually come to some hundred of thousand £ each, but last along time so recoup cost over time.
One off models or short runs they use Aluminium molds, which are much cheaper to make but don't last nearly as long as its, a, softer metal.
Steel injection molding molds usually come to some hundred of thousand £ each, but last along time so recoup cost over time.
One off models or short runs they use Aluminium molds, which are much cheaper to make but don't last nearly as long as its, a, softer metal.
The manufacture process of steel molds became substantially cheaper with the advent of CADCAM. I'd be extremely suprised if any of the molds for Cursed City cost more than £15k.
Steel injection molding molds usually come to some hundred of thousand £ each, but last along time so recoup cost over time.
Yeah that was a thing 30 years ago, not today and not for a company that can tool their own completely in-house. It costs GW a block of steel and some manhours. We're talking four digit numbers for total material costs. For how absolutely trivial mold tooling really is nowadays you can look at Archon, they messed up some sprue layout and were like "ayy lmao give us a month to tool two new molds to fix this small issue for like 500 kickstarter backers"
For looking at other companies KS for plastic tooling it’s definitely in the £10-20k range not hundreds of thousands.
And even then that’s years ago, and costs probably come down too, so nearer the lower end now..
Albertorius wrote: Well, I mean... Indomitus was the last thing I've bought from GW, so...
Exactly, which released post-price hike.
It did release post-hike, but in and of itself had good value given the stuff it had, at least for me.
I can't say the same of everything else GW has released since, so I haven't bought any. Last ones before those... hm. I thing some Start Collecting boxes and manible boxes for AT. I even have stopped buying the Necromunda gang boxes.
Not to mention that if BSF still has a market, why don't its expansions?
Because the core game can quite happily carry on selling without the expansions, and they would only be a further drain on a production schedule that is already months behind.
Why then did they not just discontinue Blackstone Fortress and do this with Cursed City instead? Well, here is one possibility; maybe Cursed City was put back to late 2021, but there was also the need to release it to coincide with the Soulblight range that is now starting to roll out. They knew it would prove popular with both AoS and Quest players and made an early print run to meet that requirement, and then return later with a proper Quest launch whenever that might be.
In the mean time, the core BSF set would be enough to offer a solid Quest experience if anyone asks.
OK all the people spouting nonsense about the prices of the molds and how cheap they are please shut up.
As a patternmaker and the person who makes them for a living your all talking out your ass
Rolsheen wrote: OK all the people spouting nonsense about the prices of the molds and how cheap they are please shut up.
As a patternmaker and the person who makes them for a living your all talking out your ass
Could you perhaps offer some insight as to what you'd think the actual prices would be, given sprue size and the tonnage you'd expect the injection machine might be? Otherwise you're just another ass-talker like the rest of us.
Rolsheen wrote: OK all the people spouting nonsense about the prices of the molds and how cheap they are please shut up.
As a patternmaker and the person who makes them for a living your all talking out your ass
Hey bud you're not the first person on Dakka who got aggressive when fresh competition showed how much they were overcharing for services
So here's a Kickstarter that made just shy of 1 million US dollars and financed the design and tooling of 50+ HIPS sprues, delivery of physical rewards valued as little as $2 per sprue, as well as, presumably, wages for the whole company for a year.
Rolsheen wrote: OK all the people spouting nonsense about the prices of the molds and how cheap they are please shut up.
As a patternmaker and the person who makes them for a living your all talking out your ass
You know literally anyone can say that without backing yes? And if they are so expensive, why would GW use them a few hundred times and then throw them away? Wouldn't they wanna y'know, make money off this horribly expensive investment?
The cynical part of me wonders if they were/are planning to release the models separately to coincide with the soulblight launch. That would get them more money per model than people buying the game, and wouldn't require getting the cardstock printed up and books made for the boxed game. Less effort, more profit.
Rolsheen wrote: OK all the people spouting nonsense about the prices of the molds and how cheap they are please shut up.
As a patternmaker and the person who makes them for a living your all talking out your ass
Could you perhaps offer some insight as to what you'd think the actual prices would be, given sprue size and the tonnage you'd expect the injection machine might be? Otherwise you're just another ass-talker like the rest of us.
And ruin his pristine reputation? Nah, nah, somebody heard a rumor 40 years ago that it was $200,000 to machine a sprue and that settled it, it's just a fact now. Which is convenient for manufacturers who can pay off their CNC machine with just one GW starter set worth of sprues! Never mind that you could pay a metal man to hand fabricate you a working reproduction of a luxury car for less money than apparently GeeDubs paid to tool up their Indomitus box set.
Yeeesh, next you people are gonna start Googling the new tariff laws in the UK and tell me they aren't paying 7,000% tax on each and every box set leaving the country, which I already know is an incontrovertible fact despite all your lies to the contrary.
Hanlan's Razor is useless in the era of multi-million corporations purposefully trying to get every last cent out of your pocket, then pretending it was just a mistake (for a completely random example, Star Wars Battlefront 2). In fact, in case of a modern corporation, it is much smarter to assume the reverse; "never attribute to stupidity that which is adequately explained by malice"
Hanlan's Razor is useless in the era of multi-million corporations purposefully trying to get every last cent out of your pocket, then pretending it was just a mistake (for a completely random example, Star Wars Battlefront 2). In fact, in case of a modern corporation, it is much smarter to assume the reverse; "never attribute to stupidity that which is adequately explained by malice"
Reality is much simpler : people at the top aren't as smart as the crowd assumes they are ("they are succeeding / paid way more than us, they must be special in comparison to us !" - spoiler : they aren't, most of them are just lucky or have the "special gift" of being born in a very rich family / favorable surrounding).
There is malice around the world, sure, but stupidity is much more common. Arrogance leading to stupid situations too. Especially in modern corporations.
Here, I believe it's more a case of stupid people doing stupid things at the wrong time.
But it's much more glamorous to believe this is all a conspiration all along, indeed. Like all conspiration theories.
GW using FOMO tactics to boost their sales is one thing. Believing all this mess with really bad reputation for them was a nefarious plan to suck to the last cent of our wallet is another.
Hanlan's Razor is useless in the era of multi-million corporations purposefully trying to get every last cent out of your pocket, then pretending it was just a mistake (for a completely random example, Star Wars Battlefront 2). In fact, in case of a modern corporation, it is much smarter to assume the reverse; "never attribute to stupidity that which is adequately explained by malice"
Reality is much simpler : people at the top aren't as smart as the crowd assumes they are ("they are succeeding / paid way more than us, they must be special in comparison to us !" - spoiler : they aren't, most of them are just lucky or have the "special gift" of being born in a very rich family / favorable surrounding).
There is malice around the world, sure, but stupidity is much more common. Arrogance leading to stupid situations too. Especially in modern corporations.
Here, I believe it's more a case of stupid people doing stupid things at the wrong time.
But it's much more glamorous to believe this is all a conspiration all along, indeed. Like all conspiration theories.
GW using FOMO tactics to boost their sales is one thing. Believing all this mess with really bad reputation for them was a nefarious plan to suck to the last cent of our wallet is another.
Is it not much simpler and more reasonable to assume a multi-million corporation simply tried to create artificial scarcity, as countless before them had done countless times, than to try to come up with a convoluted explanation to why they somehow misjudged the demand for a cheap to produce product, which proved to be extremely popular, by several magnitudes, despite years of experience that should've made it blatantly obvious the demand is going to be huge?
BSF may have stuck around simply because they've got some remaining in at .least one warehouse
or even a decent sized order in for the paper components before they realised the whole of 2020 and a good chunk of 2021 was stuffed release wise so they might as well run the plastic and box it up,
by the time cursed city rolled round they knew the release schedule was stuffed long term plus they may (i'm not convinced given how fast other box sets have sold) even have belived they'd done a 6 months worth production run
but dropping any idea of reprinting (and maybe dropping any planned expansions which from what it says in the rule book and website were going to happen) they may have made enough release schedule/production line space to keep 40K and AoS, their biggest money spinners on track
I guess it looks like the best we can hope for is they pull out the moulds again in a few years time and dash off another run like they kept doing with space hulk
Hanlan's Razor is useless in the era of multi-million corporations purposefully trying to get every last cent out of your pocket, then pretending it was just a mistake (for a completely random example, Star Wars Battlefront 2). In fact, in case of a modern corporation, it is much smarter to assume the reverse; "never attribute to stupidity that which is adequately explained by malice"
Reality is much simpler : people at the top aren't as smart as the crowd assumes they are ("they are succeeding / paid way more than us, they must be special in comparison to us !" - spoiler : they aren't, most of them are just lucky or have the "special gift" of being born in a very rich family / favorable surrounding).
There is malice around the world, sure, but stupidity is much more common. Arrogance leading to stupid situations too. Especially in modern corporations.
Here, I believe it's more a case of stupid people doing stupid things at the wrong time.
But it's much more glamorous to believe this is all a conspiration all along, indeed. Like all conspiration theories.
GW using FOMO tactics to boost their sales is one thing. Believing all this mess with really bad reputation for them was a nefarious plan to suck to the last cent of our wallet is another.
Is it not much simpler and more reasonable to assume a multi-million corporation simply tried to create artificial scarcity, as countless before them had done countless times, than to try to come up with a convoluted explanation to why they somehow misjudged the demand for a cheap to produce product, which proved to be extremely popular, by several magnitudes, despite years of experience that should've made it blatantly obvious the demand is going to be huge?
GW play about with artificial scarcity all the time, particularly for these sort of boxed sets, but they’re usually pretty upfront it’s a limited time release to build hype.
This time they made out in advance like it was going to be a long term product with expansions and stuff like BSF, then they ran out, then no one seemed to know what was going on with mixed messages coming out of official channels, now they’re saying no they don’t expect it to come back.
Just smacks of incompetence to me. If it were some nefarious master plan one would expect it to be better executed, they’ve done this enough times and it’s not usually this much of a mess.
Is it not much simpler and more reasonable to assume a multi-million corporation simply tried to create artificial scarcity, as countless before them had done countless times, than to try to come up with a convoluted explanation to why they somehow misjudged the demand for a cheap to produce product, which proved to be extremely popular, by several magnitudes, despite years of experience that should've made it blatantly obvious the demand is going to be huge?
Creating FOMO sales via artificial scarcity only works if the potential customers know of such scarcity. Misleading the customers to think the artificially scarce product is not scarce is utterly counterproductive!
One of the worst things about all this, to me, is all the “influencers” that got free review copies but don’t actually give a gak about the game. They didn’t even request the review copies, GW just sent them one.
Those could have been in the hands of paying customers who ARE actually interested in the game but may not have been able to secure their own copy.
Nostromodamus wrote: One of the worst things about all this, to me, is all the “influencers” that got free review copies but don’t actually give a gak about the game. They didn’t even request the review copies, GW just sent them one.
Those could have been in the hands of paying customers who ARE actually interested in the game but may not have been able to secure their own copy.
So they should be blamed because they got free stuff ?
Besides, some amongst them actually gave back their copy through a lottery amongst their followers. And some actually give a gak about the game (pretty sure Ash from Guerilla Miniature Games does, since he loves the Warhammer Quest series).
Anger is understandable, but there's no point to direct it against people who have nothing to do with this. The influencers didn't have any control nor information about the real state of the stock GW had at that time.
Nostromodamus wrote: One of the worst things about all this, to me, is all the “influencers” that got free review copies but don’t actually give a gak about the game. They didn’t even request the review copies, GW just sent them one.
Those could have been in the hands of paying customers who ARE actually interested in the game but may not have been able to secure their own copy.
So they should be blamed because they got free stuff ?
Besides, some amongst them actually gave back their copy through a lottery amongst their followers. And some actually give a gak about the game (pretty sure Ash from Guerilla Miniature Games does, since he loves the Warhammer Quest series).
Anger is understandable, but there's no point to direct it against people who have nothing to do with this. The influencers didn't have any control nor information about the real state of the stock GW had at that time.
I’m not angry at them for getting free stuff, I’m angry that GW just sends these out for free to people who aren’t interested in it then says “oh sorry paying customer who is interested in it, we’re not making any more because it’s not profitable”.
I’m not angry at them for getting free stuff, I’m angry that GW just sends these out for free to people who aren’t interested in it then says “oh sorry paying customer who is interested in it, we’re not making any more because it’s not profitable”.
So what ? GW should knock at the door of the influencers and say "sorry but could you give us back the copy we gave you and that you opened / built / painted so that we can sell it to one of our needy customers ?" ?
If it's simple incompetence and grossly underestimation of the demand, it makes sense these copies were part of the plan GW made for hyping the market and have basically "free advertisement". Yeah, they fethed up badly, which is why we have this mess IMHO. Getting angry because of the frustration of not being able to have one box ? Sure, I can totally relate. But getting angry specifically about the copies being sent to influencers...I think it's a bit misplaced.
Just spend your money elsewhere people. If GW how they wana do things... I mean... Cmon. By all mean send them an email with a receipt showing off what cool things you bought from another company if it makes you feel better. I think it might.
I can understand the argument that GW tries to boost FOMO, but this really felt like a product they'd use to exploit FOMO to sell lots rather than using it to induce more FOMO.
They went to the effort of making a website, doing lots of articles and sending out kits pre-release to youtubers and website owners such that even though I never searched for Cursed City on YT and don't often watch the official GW YT channel, I was still getting Cursed City videos on my recommended list.
It just seems like an odd move for a product of which they didn't want to sell bucket loads.
Nostromodamus wrote: One of the worst things about all this, to me, is all the “influencers” that got free review copies but don’t actually give a gak about the game. They didn’t even request the review copies, GW just sent them one.
Those could have been in the hands of paying customers who ARE actually interested in the game but may not have been able to secure their own copy.
If you know of anyone who is looking for a copy of the game, my FLGS has one copy remaining. No mark ups. Have them contact me and I'll give them the store contact info.
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hotsauceman1 wrote: So I got my stores last copy.
My guess is they umderepected how many would sale
We will see it again no contest
This is my feeling, when I went in to the FLGS today to ask if anywhere left the store owner told me that another shipment would be out in May. Our store has one copy left, no mark up so if you know anyone still wanting a copy let me know and I'll give the store info.
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AllSeeingSkink wrote: I can understand the argument that GW tries to boost FOMO, but this really felt like a product they'd use to exploit FOMO to sell lots rather than using it to induce more FOMO.
They went to the effort of making a website, doing lots of articles and sending out kits pre-release to youtubers and website owners such that even though I never searched for Cursed City on YT and don't often watch the official GW YT channel, I was still getting Cursed City videos on my recommended list.
It just seems like an odd move for a product of which they didn't want to sell bucket loads.
Saw this on a Reddit post today.
"The issue apparently was tariffs on the Chinese made printed materials in the box. It exceeded 30% of the allowable content, so it couldn't be shipped out of the UK without heavy tariffs. The thinking is GW sold the boxes it had already ordered/manufactured prior to the new Brexit trade deals to recover costs.
Whether they shift all production (not just the models) to the UK and reprint and release expansions isn't known yet. Everything, including this, is speculation until GW releases an official statement. Those familiar with the UKs import/export situation have pieced this together."
Two of the publishers I edit for that are based in the UK are going through the same thing (and probably won't survive it.)
It's a really unfortunate situation that no one could really plan for as we weren't made aware of the tariff changes that would happen after the finalisation of brexit and if something isn't done, soon, it's going to have a massive effect on British publishing, as a whole.
Nostromodamus wrote: One of the worst things about all this, to me, is all the “influencers” that got free review copies but don’t actually give a gak about the game. They didn’t even request the review copies, GW just sent them one.
Those could have been in the hands of paying customers who ARE actually interested in the game but may not have been able to secure their own copy.
The number of copies that go to 'influencers' is trivial.
They'll lose more copies to damages and theft.
Nostromodamus wrote: One of the worst things about all this, to me, is all the “influencers” that got free review copies but don’t actually give a gak about the game. They didn’t even request the review copies, GW just sent them one.
Those could have been in the hands of paying customers who ARE actually interested in the game but may not have been able to secure their own copy.
The number of copies that go to 'influencers' is trivial.
They'll lose more copies to damages and theft.
Yeah, I really don't get the hate on the influencers. Total how many kits go out? Like 10? No more than 20. A drop in the bucket compared to how many are produced.
I'm just hoping that after the Summer, past a lot of the stuff that's higher priority for GW, they'll reprint more. We'll see.
If this was such a limited run, I don’t see why they did the huge marketing campaign. They could have dropped this without warning and it would have sold out.
"The issue apparently was tariffs on the Chinese made printed materials in the box. It exceeded 30% of the allowable content, so it couldn't be shipped out of the UK without heavy tariffs. The thinking is GW sold the boxes it had already ordered/manufactured prior to the new Brexit trade deals to recover costs.
Whether they shift all production (not just the models) to the UK and reprint and release expansions isn't known yet. Everything, including this, is speculation until GW releases an official statement. Those familiar with the UKs import/export situation have pieced this together."
If this is the case, they really shouldn't have assembled this box in the UK for non-UK markets. I guess (hope) they've got people now running the cost analysis for exporting plastic to the States (or Europe - LOL at the Brexiteers) and putting it into packaging from outside the UK for this kind of mixed-origin product. I know I'd be strongly considering two product streams (domestic and export) at this point if I were in their Operations organization.
The tariff thing remains a nonsensical explanation. Heavy tariffs can damage your quarterly and yearly earnings, they don't make high overhead, high margin products unprofitable. Not to mention they're selling this thing all over the world, not just to the EU. And it would effect all of their products with pamphlets, booklets, cardboard, or playing cards, so by logical extension they'll all be cancelled too now (obviously they aren't).
I could see some combination of: manufacturing difficulties in China, massive shipping delays and extra scam fees due to the shipping crisis coming out of China, a new plan to start printing in the UK, higher tariffs for products made in China going to the EU, highly disconnected management without strong leadership or vision, and gross executive incompetence all combining into somebody at the top going, "Well getting this limited print run together was a nightmare, let's just not worry about making anymore and move on to other things." Of course, with absolutely no connection to their own community and fanbase, or likely even an understanding of tabletop gaming, to guide their thinking.
Nostromodamus wrote: One of the worst things about all this, to me, is all the “influencers” that got free review copies but don’t actually give a gak about the game. They didn’t even request the review copies, GW just sent them one.
Those could have been in the hands of paying customers who ARE actually interested in the game but may not have been able to secure their own copy.
The number of copies that go to 'influencers' is trivial.
They'll lose more copies to damages and theft.
Yeah, I really don't get the hate on the influencers. Total how many kits go out? Like 10? No more than 20. A drop in the bucket compared to how many are produced.
I'm just hoping that after the Summer, past a lot of the stuff that's higher priority for GW, they'll reprint more. We'll see.
Again, I’m not hating on influencers. Try reading my fething posts.
Due to the pandemic, they just don't actually know when they'll be able to get another run sorted to start selling. Remember the indomitus pre-order run after it sold out in a day, maybe that was more problematic than they perceived and they want to be more cautious this time.
There's also a copyright infringement rumour milling about as well.
Is it not much simpler and more reasonable to assume a multi-million corporation simply tried to create artificial scarcity, as countless before them had done countless times, than to try to come up with a convoluted explanation to why they somehow misjudged the demand for a cheap to produce product, which proved to be extremely popular, by several magnitudes, despite years of experience that should've made it blatantly obvious the demand is going to be huge?
Creating FOMO sales via artificial scarcity only works if the potential customers know of such scarcity. Misleading the customers to think the artificially scarce product is not scarce is utterly counterproductive!
They’ll know for the next box and make double sure they get their preorder in, and hey if they miss the next one too then just buy some different toys with the money anyway.
How many times does this need to happen before people accept that this is done on purpose? The work people are putting in to dispute this clear explanation is staggering. The company has said directly it wont return and people are still here saying they think it will, its insane.
Is it not much simpler and more reasonable to assume a multi-million corporation simply tried to create artificial scarcity, as countless before them had done countless times, than to try to come up with a convoluted explanation to why they somehow misjudged the demand for a cheap to produce product, which proved to be extremely popular, by several magnitudes, despite years of experience that should've made it blatantly obvious the demand is going to be huge?
Creating FOMO sales via artificial scarcity only works if the potential customers know of such scarcity. Misleading the customers to think the artificially scarce product is not scarce is utterly counterproductive!
They’ll know for the next box and make double sure they get their preorder in, and hey if they miss the next one too then just buy some different toys with the money anyway.
How many times does this need to happen before people accept that this is done on purpose? The work people are putting in to dispute this clear explanation is staggering. The company has said directly it wont return and people are still here saying they think it will, its insane.
Where exactly, did GW make a statement? I thought you guys said there was no communication and that's part of why you're mad about this. Now you're saying there is a statement and that it definitively says they will not be making more. Which is it? The work that people are putting in to dispute this clear explanation is staggering.
I tend to think the same, though I wouldn't be surprised either way.
Thing is, might as well stop arguing about it. As those who think more are coming can’t win the argument.
If they don’t do more, they never were going to.
If they do more, it’ll be they didn’t plan on it but quickly produced more. Rather than just had a next wave coming.
If it ends up being permanent, it “wasn’t meant to be and they changed plans” as opposed to being like every other Quest anyway.
Well i’m not mad about it, as i wasn’t overly interested in picking the game up, but i do find the surrounding mayhem entertaining, in particular the desire for people to avoid any acceptance that this is an engineered scenario from a company that makes its money by selling its brand rather than toys and games... forced scarcity (and high prices) are all a part of this.
You can see for yourself a ways back someones screen grab of a reply from the warhammer community team, take a few moments to do so please.
Luke82 wrote: Well i’m not mad about it, as i wasn’t overly interested in picking the game up, but i do find the surrounding mayhem entertaining, in particular the desire for people to avoid any acceptance that this is an engineered scenario from a company that makes its money by selling its brand rather than toys and games... forced scarcity (and high prices) are all a part of this.
You can see for yourself a ways back someones screen grab of a reply from the warhammer community team, take a few moments to do so please.
GW sells its product on the quality of the product, not on the strength of the brand (which is in itself dictated by the quality of the product anyway). When they release some garbage, as they do from time to time, people don't just say "Ah well this looks bad but it's prolly good because it's GW im gonna buy it anyway ". Why TF you'd base any bizarre theory on what a warcom employee has tweeted speaks to the strength of the theory (ie piss poor).
Luke82 wrote: Well i’m not mad about it, as i wasn’t overly interested in picking the game up, but i do find the surrounding mayhem entertaining, in particular the desire for people to avoid any acceptance that this is an engineered scenario from a company that makes its money by selling its brand rather than toys and games... forced scarcity (and high prices) are all a part of this.
You can see for yourself a ways back someones screen grab of a reply from the warhammer community team, take a few moments to do so please.
You mean the one that says nothing of the sort and says they cannot confirm or deny reports that the game is coming back for a second run? All from a team that a lot of those arguing this point say isn't reliable in the first place?
It's okay to admit when you don't know. I don't know either what the real explanation is. Insisting it's some grandiose scheme to somehow make money off FOMO when it has been shown that 10 X more money would have been made with a larger stock pool is just as nutter as Alex Jones chattering about gay frogs.
Steel injection molding molds usually come to some hundred of thousand £ each, but last along time so recoup cost over time.
One off models or short runs they use Aluminium molds, which are much cheaper to make but don't last nearly as long as its, a, softer metal.
The manufacture process of steel molds became substantially cheaper with the advent of CADCAM. I'd be extremely suprised if any of the molds for Cursed City cost more than £15k.
frankelee wrote: The tariff thing remains a nonsensical explanation. Heavy tariffs can damage your quarterly and yearly earnings, they don't make high overhead, high margin products unprofitable. Not to mention they're selling this thing all over the world, not just to the EU. And it would effect all of their products with pamphlets, booklets, cardboard, or playing cards, so by logical extension they'll all be cancelled too now (obviously they aren't).
I could see some combination of: manufacturing difficulties in China, massive shipping delays and extra scam fees due to the shipping crisis coming out of China, a new plan to start printing in the UK, higher tariffs for products made in China going to the EU, highly disconnected management without strong leadership or vision, and gross executive incompetence all combining into somebody at the top going, "Well getting this limited print run together was a nightmare, let's just not worry about making anymore and move on to other things." Of course, with absolutely no connection to their own community and fanbase, or likely even an understanding of tabletop gaming, to guide their thinking.
The 'tariff thing' seems to be a very good explanation to me, but of course other factors might contribute too.
The product does not have to be unprofitable per se (ie losing money) to be pulled. It might be enough if earnings are impacted in a way that the product looks so bad compared to others that it spoils the overall performance.
The proportion of UK and non-UK contributions to the product will be measured in costs. They do the plastic inhouse, which per unit is pretty low-cost, and it might not be possible to attribute much of the fixed overhead and ramp-up costs here (development, website, maybe even plastic-related stuff like molding etc.). That's why third-party components costs could look inflated in this calculation. Also, maybe they tried to do it more favourably and got called out after the first shipments, at which point they decided not to continue. It will make a difference for export to most countries if the product tariff-wise is considered UK-origin vs eg. Chinese-origin. Other printed products would also be affected by this, but maybe they are not sold out yet?
Anyway, if that's the case they will have to shift printing to somewhere else (UK, maybe EU works for most export destinations, even outside Europe, under the UK's roll-over trade deals). Depending on how fuzzy they are with quality and qualifying every last ingredient for non-toxicity and sustainability (paper stock, inks, varnish), this might take a while - but products would return eventually.
Brexit-related issues might also explain their silence. This is very political, and GW is probably conscious not to be seen complaining about Brexit or the UK government's handling of it, as taking sides (either way) could alienate large parts of their UK customers.
On the other hand, saying that 'big corporations are crap and GW management are laughing all day because they pulled one on their customers who are now angry and cannot buy their stuff' just does not cut it. That's not how things work.
There's also a copyright infringement rumour milling about as well.
Can't say I've heard of this rumour, care to elaborate?
There's no evidence for it, GW pulling mentions of the product so completely are just considered by folks to be consistent with the actions of someone subjected to a cease & desist notice.
There's also a copyright infringement rumour milling about as well.
Can't say I've heard of this rumour, care to elaborate?
There's no evidence for it, GW pulling mentions of the product so completely are just considered by folks to be consistent with the actions of someone subjected to a cease & desist notice.
Luke82 wrote: Well i’m not mad about it, as i wasn’t overly interested in picking the game up, but i do find the surrounding mayhem entertaining, in particular the desire for people to avoid any acceptance that this is an engineered scenario from a company that makes its money by selling its brand rather than toys and games... forced scarcity (and high prices) are all a part of this.
You can see for yourself a ways back someones screen grab of a reply from the warhammer community team, take a few moments to do so please.
You mean the one that says nothing of the sort and says they cannot confirm or deny reports that the game is coming back for a second run? All from a team that a lot of those arguing this point say isn't reliable in the first place?
It's okay to admit when you don't know. I don't know either what the real explanation is. Insisting it's some grandiose scheme to somehow make money off FOMO when it has been shown that 10 X more money would have been made with a larger stock pool is just as nutter as Alex Jones chattering about gay frogs.
Well I most definitely dont know. But all the evidence points to this being gone, and all the talk of it coming back boils down to nothing more than wishful thinking, so we’ll each of us have to just go with whichever way makes sense to us, gay frogs or not.
Its happened many times before (im still bitter about missing shadow war!) so the talk of ‘unanticipated demand’ just doesnt wash. If it sold out in a month, perhaps, but these things consistently sell out before pre-orders are done... the ‘bad PR’ this supposedly causes hasnt dented GW sales one bit as it is a tried and true method to increase perceived brand worth, which is why I believe GW has shifted focus to pushing their brand rather than their games (which are not great on their own merits but played anyway). Their models are of excellent quality so yes this does weave into their brand quality.
Agamemnon2 wrote: I thought they also nixed articles from the WarCom site relating to the game? It's entirely possible I've been misinformed by idiots, of course.
Thing is, might as well stop arguing about it. As those who think more are coming can’t win the argument.
If they don’t do more, they never were going to.
If they do more, it’ll be they didn’t plan on it but quickly produced more. Rather than just had a next wave coming.
If it ends up being permanent, it “wasn’t meant to be and they changed plans” as opposed to being like every other Quest anyway.
Do you need any help nailing yourself up on that cross or is our passive acceptance of your distasteful martyr complex enough?
Right..
You obviously don’t spend a lot of time here.
That’s exactly what happens whenever further information or hindsight comes later in the year.
We don’t know that they weren’t planning more (and there’s plenty of evidence to say they were, in the rulebook regarding expansions for instance etc), yet if more comes it will be because of this “backlash” that they changed their mind, rather than it was always the plan.
The point is despite all this evidence provided on both sides, we are still no further to knowing the answer. So the discussion going round and round is pointless.
TheGoodGerman wrote: Brexit-related issues might also explain their silence. This is very political, and GW is probably conscious not to be seen complaining about Brexit or the UK government's handling of it, as taking sides (either way) could alienate large parts of their UK customers.
Thing is, Games Workshop never really explains their choices in detail anyway. Concerning Brexit for example, they just said they'd handle the customs/VAT at no extra cost for the customer and that's it. No need to get into the "why", customers are mainly interested in the "what".
But here, I don't recall a previous time when the "what" was so incredibly unclear. At this stage, there has been clearer communication about the mysterious "Warhammer Fantasy 2: Old World Boogaloo" than about a potential Cursed City restock. And by that, I don't mean messages on Facebook or wherever, but on the actual Warhammer Community website. That website with daily articles which is their main way of communicating to presumably most of their fan- and customerbase (along with the newsletters, which link directly to WarCom).
The original announcements of Cursed City made no mention of it being a one-off run, and as others have pointed out repeatedly to those diving deep into FOMO conspiracy theories, they would have if it was planned. The main one-off with which they tried to attract early and quick sales was this decorative key. We know what GW creating artificial scarcity looks like, and this wasn't it. Had this been planned as a limited release, we would not be discussing it right now! Their advertisement style would have left 0 room for doubt about that. If anyone needs a reminder, this is what it looks like:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/04/18/know-no-fomo-order-2-heroes-for-just-2-weeks/
While I won't speculate on the reasons for a seemingly sudden change of plans (tariffs, release schedule delays and overhaul, whatever), it's quite clear something has happened.
Given that the rulebook apparently mentions expansions, it will certainly be interesting to see if those will emerge, or whatever created the current situation has changed the future of those too.
Two final points:
- The Facebook (was it?) response that they are not "expecting" a restock doesn't mean never. Even if they aren't planning it now, they leave open the door for a change of plans. It does however guarantee it won't be back on the shelves any time soon.
- The lack of clear communication surrounding all of this has been quite unprofessional to say the least. Whatever the reasons (and whether or not they would disclose them), it should have been possible to get some article on WarCom within a day, whether it's to say it's gone, it's not to return soon or it will be back eventually, though unsure when. Even an article stating they're not sure whether it will return (if there are complex issues in the production/distribution process that might or might not be resolved) would be more informative than complete silence. I've seen badly run Kickstarters that were clearer about their plans than GW has been here.
I tend to think the same, though I wouldn't be surprised either way.
Thing is, might as well stop arguing about it. As those who think more are coming can’t win the argument.
If they don’t do more, they never were going to.
If they do more, it’ll be they didn’t plan on it but quickly produced more. Rather than just had a next wave coming.
If it ends up being permanent, it “wasn’t meant to be and they changed plans” as opposed to being like every other Quest anyway.
At the end of the day there's multiple premises that lead to them either not continuing it, or continuing it.
On the balance of evidence, I think there's a good chance there'll do another run, it seems like they sold a lot less than they could have, and given the effort they put into marketing I imagine they were trying to exploit a greater proportion of sales than they did. I don't place a lot of weight on statements made on Twitter by a community rep. Maybe they represent some overarching word passed down from on high by the actual heads and decision makers at GW, but I think it's just as likely some off the cuff comment made with little more knowledge than the community in general has.
Of course maybe they don't do another run, maybe it was because they planned to and changed their mind, or maybe it's because they never planned to and don't think there's enough benefit in changing tack now.
GW have always been good at hiding the true reasons for doing things and letting the community waste days, weeks, months and years arguing over their motivations.
Geezus, the new Shadespire vamp band the Crimson Court seems to have had a similar 3-minute sell-out. Fingers crossed my online retailer of choice actually do manage to get a restock as they claim next week.
What is going on?! Certainly suggests Cursed City's supply issues go beyond just that range - to my mind, at least.
Hopefully - IF it is a case they blew through an enticipated 3-6months worth of stock in the pre-order phase alone, it won't affect any plans for expansions or additional print content through WD. Odd that it doesn't feature in the latest issue, though, at all. Really fun game. Needs a little more variety, of course, but a great next step in the WQ line.
If they’ve maxed out their production capacity and literally can’t make any more without delaying other more profitable things and thus causing a drop in their profits, then it’s not artificial scarcity. It’s just scarcity.
For realsies question here; to those who think this is gonna become available again, what makes you think this? Not trying to be facetious here, genuinely curious.
To me it also seems insane to not want to make enough stock to meet demand but this keeps happening. Dismiss FOMO manipulation as a conspiracy theory, fine, but to say ‘something has obviously happened’ seems to me to gloss over that this has happened many times before, and will most likely again.
Perhaps it is GW’s release schedule outpacing their manufacturing capacity, but this to me is still manipulating scarcity... the obvious answer being to slow down the release schedule.
Its a weird and befuddling situation, and also very interesting. It must bite them in the bum at some point. Fatigue with the shenanigans must surely burn out the market at some point?
Luke82 wrote: For realsies question here; to those who think this is gonna become available again, what makes you think this? Not trying to be facetious here, genuinely curious.
To me it also seems insane to not want to make enough stock to meet demand but this keeps happening. Dismiss FOMO manipulation as a conspiracy theory, fine, but to say ‘something has obviously happened’ seems to me to gloss over that this has happened many times before, and will most likely again.
Perhaps it is GW’s release schedule outpacing their manufacturing capacity, but this to me is still manipulating scarcity... the obvious answer being to slow down the release schedule.
Its a weird and befuddling situation, and also very interesting. It must bite them in the bum at some point. Fatigue with the shenanigans must surely burn out the market at some point?
Given how everyone keeps buying their gak despite them constantly pulling stuff like this, I very highly doubt it's gonna have literally any consequences for them.
I think the reason people keep buying their stuff despite things like this happening is simply because to most people it’s just not that big a deal. If I miss out on a product I wanted, okay I’m disappointed for a while, but there’ll be something else I want coming along soon enough. At the end of the day it’s just toy soldiers and nothing I’m going to be genuinely upset about.
Luke82 wrote: For realsies question here; to those who think this is gonna become available again, what makes you think this? Not trying to be facetious here, genuinely curious.
To me it also seems insane to not want to make enough stock to meet demand but this keeps happening. Dismiss FOMO manipulation as a conspiracy theory, fine, but to say ‘something has obviously happened’ seems to me to gloss over that this has happened many times before, and will most likely again.
Perhaps it is GW’s release schedule outpacing their manufacturing capacity, but this to me is still manipulating scarcity... the obvious answer being to slow down the release schedule.
Its a weird and befuddling situation, and also very interesting. It must bite them in the bum at some point. Fatigue with the shenanigans must surely burn out the market at some point?
For me, it's because my FLGS has told me they're getting more copies from GW in May. Combined with the fact that they went through all of the trouble to build a website, and the fact that the game is self flat out says there will be expansions inside its core rulebook. It doesn't make sense to make 100K units, sell out in a week and then never touch it again. In my mind, this is literally the result of Covid/Global Shipping Problems/Brexit and a huge host of other possible issues. I'm choosing to wait and see what happens.
Plus, I got my copy.
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MonkeyBallistic wrote: I think the reason people keep buying their stuff despite things like this happening is simply because to most people it’s just not that big a deal. If I miss out on a product I wanted, okay I’m disappointed for a while, but there’ll be something else I want coming along soon enough. At the end of the day it’s just toy soldiers and nothing I’m going to be genuinely upset about.
Well you have to wonder. There are a lot of people who play 40K only. They probably wouldn't even care about this product, not to mention AoS folks who may or may not care about it too. Heck, I myself only bought one because the FLGS had some and I was looking for a weekend hobby project since I have three days off from work.
Right..
You obviously don’t spend a lot of time here.
...riiiiiiight.
See that little box to the left of this post. Where it says "Joined"? Note the year there is 2005. I have spent considerably more time here than an upstart crow like yourself.
Ha, well when you’re done puffing your feathers out you can calm down, it’s tongue in cheek.
Joining somewhere means nothing for a start. I’d been visiting on here long before I joined as I posted on Warseer for years rather than over here. I was 20 when you joined here, far from being an upstart.
And joining something doesn’t mean you visit a lot which was my point.
People in here, and the internet in general, love to prove they were right - when there’s no way to prove one way or the other, even if it ends up coming back, we don’t know what the original plan was. That’s being an upstart crow btw.
It’s the nature of arguments on here. My whole standpoint in this thread has been we don’t know and there’s arguments for both sides.
Anyway,
I’ve only just read the original post that the WarCom reply was to.
It’s interesting to see that half that comment was about whether he would get the novel.
So potentially the reply could have been about that (I will say either way, they’ve replied terribly vaguely).
We can only hope that maybe this weekends articles have some kind of announcement regarding it..
Clockpunk wrote: Geezus, the new Shadespire vamp band the Crimson Court seems to have had a similar 3-minute sell-out. Fingers crossed my online reyailer of choice actually do manage to get a restock as they claim a week later.
What is going on?! Certainly suggests Cursed City's supply issues go beyond just that range - to my mind, at least.
Hopefully - IF it is a case they blew through an enticipated 3-6months worth of stock in the pre-order phase alone, it won't affect any plans for expansions or additional print content through WD. Odd that it doesn't feature in the latest issue, though, at all. Really fun game. Needs a little more variety, of course, but a great next step in the WQ line.
LGS here got 1! Belakor model, so they put it up for charitable auction and are taking preorders for wave 2 of him. Something seriously borked at GW, lol.
Yeah, this now looks like communicating with us is the least of their worries at the moment. Something big blew up and we’re not seeing artificial scarcity here. I‘m guessing it‘s mostly Brexit and lack of preparation for it. Maybe worsened by Covid delays that led them to sit on stocks which should have been moved last year under ‚old‘ rules.
Still, they should up their game when it comes to communication.
Luke82 wrote: For realsies question here; to those who think this is gonna become available again, what makes you think this? Not trying to be facetious here, genuinely curious.
It's just on balance of evidence I think there's a good chance they'll do another run. Maybe they won't, but I'm leaning towards maybe they will.
They seemed to have over-marketed it for an extremely-limited-one-and-done type deal. If they never planned on selling many, why bother making a website for it, why bother sending them out to review sites, why bother hyping it up for a couple of months beforehand. Then you also have the evidence of planned expansions, it seems odd for them to make expansions for a very limited game that no one can buy any more.
Luke82 wrote:For realsies question here; to those who think this is gonna become available again, what makes you think this? Not trying to be facetious here, genuinely curious.
To me it also seems insane to not want to make enough stock to meet demand but this keeps happening. Dismiss FOMO manipulation as a conspiracy theory, fine, but to say ‘something has obviously happened’ seems to me to gloss over that this has happened many times before, and will most likely again.
Perhaps it is GW’s release schedule outpacing their manufacturing capacity, but this to me is still manipulating scarcity... the obvious answer being to slow down the release schedule.
Its a weird and befuddling situation, and also very interesting. It must bite them in the bum at some point. Fatigue with the shenanigans must surely burn out the market at some point?
I'm not convinced it'll be available again, but also not convinced it won't be. Mostly because every previous WHQ release has stuck around for 1 year+ and also because the game talks about expansions, and it's a hugely accepted no-no in the board game world to try to sell expansions when the base game is no longer available. The amount of times I've heard "we have an expansion planned and designed but it's on hold as the base game is sold out but we're not sure there's demand for a reprint".
Also GW haven't been great at getting their facts right the past few months no? We've seen examples of outright lies from them around certain things (I'm no GW hater but have to admit recently there's been either some major cock-ups or horrid business practices) so I'm equally not taking their word that something they say won't be available again won't be.
The only reason I can imagine that they've cut it short is that the models in this boxed set are going to be released in other boxed sets linked to the upcoming campaign books and Vampire books and thus they don't want a huge discount set on the market when those produce hit the shelves.
One downside of Blackstone is that the models had a limited shelf life for GW. Many were popular designs but were ultimately slaved to a short term game. Meanwhile Cursed City appears to have more models that would have a role in other armies and such very easily.
They've certainly made a lot of links between Cursed City and the upcoming vampire force and Cities of Sigmar have already got 2 characters hinted at coming in a campaign book for which they look like perfect Cursed City expansion content.
What's baffling is GW's refusal to give us a clear answer. One can only hope that in the coming week they at the very least give a clear community message. Yes it won't be popular, but its not as if this is something that people are going to ignore or forget.
Luke82 wrote: For realsies question here; to those who think this is gonna become available again, what makes you think this? Not trying to be facetious here, genuinely curious.
To me it also seems insane to not want to make enough stock to meet demand but this keeps happening. Dismiss FOMO manipulation as a conspiracy theory, fine, but to say ‘something has obviously happened’ seems to me to gloss over that this has happened many times before, and will most likely again.
If by "this has happened many times before" you mean that they sell out within minutes of pre-orders going live, yes, that happened a few times in recent years. But as far as I'm aware mainly for things that were either intended to be strictly limited (artificially, yes) like, say, the first Sisters of Battle box, or they simply sold out for the initial stock due to severe production limitations or at times perhaps unexpected demand. For the latter, however, the product would typically return later after more were produced, unless it was intended as a one-off and the produced stock was expected to last longer.
Selling out of (not intentionally limited) products incredibly quickly due to production/distribution limitations is clearly detrimental for them too: if you sell out within 20 minutes, you will be guaranteed to have made more sales and more money if you had produced more of the product. And that last reason is exactly why, assuming no unsurmountable problem is stopping them from doing so, it seems entirely sensible to create another batch of these.
If GW wants to create FOMO, they produce a strictly limited run of something and advertise it as such. They do it constantly, with special boxes, books, miniatures. Assuming Quest was supposed to be a part of the regular range for the medium term (2-3 years if BSF is any indication, and the indicated planned expansions support this idea), they don't gain anything from selling out this soon and not producing more. They don't have to create FOMO for regular products, as they have been known to sell out on pre-order (for initial stock) regardless, and they don't gain anything from selling out in 10 rather than 20 minutes next time. If they can produce the right amount to nearly sell out during the one-week pre-order period, they will literally make several times as much money. Unless we assume 99% of the interested customers got a copy in those first 20 minutes, but that seems highly unlikely.
Luke82 wrote: For realsies question here; to those who think this is gonna become available again, what makes you think this? Not trying to be facetious here, genuinely curious.
To me it also seems insane to not want to make enough stock to meet demand but this keeps happening. Dismiss FOMO manipulation as a conspiracy theory, fine, but to say ‘something has obviously happened’ seems to me to gloss over that this has happened many times before, and will most likely again.
If by "this has happened many times before" you mean that they sell out within minutes of pre-orders going live, yes, that happened a few times in recent years. But as far as I'm aware mainly for things that were either intended to be strictly limited (artificially, yes) like, say, the first Sisters of Battle box, or they simply sold out for the initial stock due to severe production limitations or at times perhaps unexpected demand. For the latter, however, the product would typically return later after more were produced, unless it was intended as a one-off and the produced stock was expected to last longer.
Selling out of (not intentionally limited) products incredibly quickly due to production/distribution limitations is clearly detrimental for them too: if you sell out within 20 minutes, you will be guaranteed to have made more sales and more money if you had produced more of the product. And that last reason is exactly why, assuming no unsurmountable problem is stopping them from doing so, it seems entirely sensible to create another batch of these.
If GW wants to create FOMO, they produce a strictly limited run of something and advertise it as such. They do it constantly, with special boxes, books, miniatures. Assuming Quest was supposed to be a part of the regular range for the medium term (2-3 years if BSF is any indication, and the indicated planned expansions support this idea), they don't gain anything from selling out this soon and not producing more. They don't have to create FOMO for regular products, as they have been known to sell out on pre-order (for initial stock) regardless, and they don't gain anything from selling out in 10 rather than 20 minutes next time. If they can produce the right amount to nearly sell out during the one-week pre-order period, they will literally make several times as much money. Unless we assume 99% of the interested customers got a copy in those first 20 minutes, but that seems highly unlikely.
While I fully agree, this does not answer whether they'll make more Cursed City after all that's happened recently.
I think they will. Quest as a line is clearly regarded a success, be it on its own or as a gateway for boardgamers into GW's main lines, or both. For Cursed City, the heavy lifting has already been done, they just need to make more and it will sell (quite well, I assume). Likely they also have expansions ready to go into production, if production has not already started. For any successor Quest, GW will have to start the design process all over again. And for NextQuest, the market might not be significantly larger than the remaining market for Cursed City, which in view of the already-prepared expansions will only grow by making the core game available again.
The reason I think they will is Space Hulk, additionally, Warhammer Quest is a game, whether the models get released separately or not neither here or there really, as it isn't AoS, it is a separate game that happens to have characters and units that can be played in AoS.
I intended to buy two boxes at some point, assuming this wouldn't be a limited run. I think many customers would do the same.
Additionally, my counter argument for those saying it was meant to be an intended run, why on earth go to the trouble of making the moulds and the website etc etc, all up front costs when they can now just manufacture re-run copies for the most minimal of cost assuming they've already turned a profit on the initial run (which they will have)? It's about as close to printing money as you can get with demand for it at the moment.
I think something has come up in regards to the supply where they cannot currently guarantee when they can re-stock. Heck, the blockage in the Suez canal the other week could be a very considerable for all we know (it probably hasn't but just one example).
Someone was selling the rules, boards and essentially everything but the figures for around 15 bucks online, so I decided that for that amount of money, i can give it a try. I have enough nighthaunts to easily stand in for all the undead and enough other models to use for heroes so it works out just fine.
What's baffling is GW's refusal to give us a clear answer. One can only hope that in the coming week they at the very least give a clear community message. Yes it won't be popular, but its not as if this is something that people are going to ignore or forget.
There likely isn't going to be a clear answer, other than "we're looking into things". Whether that's worth a Warcom article or just a facebook update I'm not sure, but I'm surprised there's not been some vaguely open-ended reply.
I suspect it's because there's still stock out in stores, so would prefer people go get those (or wait til they are returned) before telling people not to worry and just wait. Afterall, Cursed City is still available, just not from their online store.
Cronch wrote: Someone was selling the rules, boards and essentially everything but the figures for around 15 bucks online, so I decided that for that amount of money, i can give it a try. I have enough nighthaunts to easily stand in for all the undead and enough other models to use for heroes so it works out just fine.
Apparently GW though they had enough copies of Cursed City to last them 3-6 months, but they all sold out pretty much straight away.
Right now there is an unknown, serious problem with their warehouse - orders haven't gone out to FLGS or GW stores in the last few days, and some have been advised it'll be next week before they get stuff (so a lot of people won't be getting their pre-orders this weekend).
Days? Try months. My LGS is still waiting on those Blood Bowl starters and War Cry Alliance books. I know that distributors have typically given shops in the Southern US the shaft but this is a new level.
My FLGS still has a pile of indomnitus boxes sitting around. I wonder whether the lack of communication regarding cursed city’s future is a courtesy to the FLGSs who feel burned by the glut of indomnitus generated by the post pre-order/pre-release MTO.
Apparently GW though they had enough copies of Cursed City to last them 3-6 months, but they all sold out pretty much straight away.
Right now there is an unknown, serious problem with their warehouse - orders haven't gone out to FLGS or GW stores in the last few days, and some have been advised it'll be next week before they get stuff (so a lot of people won't be getting their pre-orders this weekend).
Days? Try months. My LGS is still waiting on those Blood Bowl starters and War Cry Alliance books. I know that distributors have typically given shops in the Southern US the shaft but this is a new level.
This has been the story every time a box set sells out.
Looncurse, Carrion Empire, Sisters of Battle box set, Indomitus, the early Kill Team boxes. Every single time it's "We thought we made enough to last for months and months!"
So the question I would pose to GW is: When are you going to learn?
Whoever is in charge of projections needs a bonk on the head, because they've undershot every hot item. The only things that haven't been hot sellers in terms of box sets in recent memory are... Catacombs and Rise of the Phoenix, but both of those were at a higher price point than others of the same type. Everything else sells out immediately, GW throw up their hands and say "We THOUGHT we had enough!" and we're supposed to say, what, "Oh, gosh, GW, it's the thought that counts."???
Apparently GW though they had enough copies of Cursed City to last them 3-6 months, but they all sold out pretty much straight away.
Right now there is an unknown, serious problem with their warehouse - orders haven't gone out to FLGS or GW stores in the last few days, and some have been advised it'll be next week before they get stuff (so a lot of people won't be getting their pre-orders this weekend).
Days? Try months. My LGS is still waiting on those Blood Bowl starters and War Cry Alliance books. I know that distributors have typically given shops in the Southern US the shaft but this is a new level.
This has been the story every time a box set sells out.
Looncurse, Carrion Empire, Sisters of Battle box set, Indomitus, the early Kill Team boxes. Every single time it's "We thought we made enough to last for months and months!"
So the question I would pose to GW is: When are you going to learn?
I honestly don't think most of those examples are true. Not even vaguely true. GW has definitely never made any such claim about the Versus boxes like Looncurse and Carrion Empire- those are designed to push the new leader models and go, then the same models are released separately later. Same with the Sisters box (and Lumenith), though I've seen both on store shelves recently (though the sisters are now gone from that store).
The 'early Kill Team boxes,' depending on which you mean, were also temporary. Most were also bargains- a normal squad and a bit of terrain for less than the cost of both, or like the Versus boxes, designed to push a solo character like the GSC and AdMech ones, and fade away.
Indomitus... that's a special case. That had the spectre of too much backlash against the flagship game. They also bit the bullet and made good on the demand (probably at some extra cost that wasn't planned- no tears here, but I doubt their accountants were happy).
Cursed City is a different beast. The LGSs here are feeling burned and ghosted because those that ordered still got nothing (and that was true of Piety and Pain as well), and the GW rep waffled at them.
Whoever is in charge of projections needs a bonk on the head, because they've undershot every hot item. The only things that haven't been hot sellers in terms of box sets in recent memory are... Catacombs and Rise of the Phoenix, but both of those were at a higher price point than others of the same type. Everything else sells out immediately
There are a couple other exceptions you're ignoring. Wrath and Rapture was one, the eldar vs space wolfs lingered a long time as well, both in stores and on the GW store. Forgebane too. Shadowspear was a medium term box that I'm not sure if you're including, but it was a available a good while.
I can still buy Shadow and Pain and Aetherwar if I really want to at a shop ~40 minutes away.
It still seems that too many of the hot ticket items are sold out far too quickly, even considering items that are supposed to sell fast, like Looncurse and other VS boxes.
Shadowspear they produced a lot of because it was Space Marines. In that regard, they overestimated the appeal of tacticool vanguard marines.
Either way, when you hype up a brand new addition to your line like Cursed City as much as they did, they need the content to back it up. I'd actually almost prefer that they did LESS advertising and let the products stand more on their own.
drbored wrote: It still seems that too many of the hot ticket items are sold out far too quickly, even considering items that are supposed to sell fast, like Looncurse and other VS boxes.
Shadowspear they produced a lot of because it was Space Marines. In that regard, they overestimated the appeal of tacticool vanguard marines.
Either way, when you hype up a brand new addition to your line like Cursed City as much as they did, they need the content to back it up. I'd actually almost prefer that they did LESS advertising and let the products stand more on their own.
Oh, I can't call Cursed City anything but a massive screw up. I don't know what they were thinking, I don't know what problems they had, but the release was a mess, and their (lack of) response was worse. Even IF they eventually bring it back, they've made a dog's breakfast of it, and its largely killed my interest in it AND the upcoming vampire release. Which is a shame, because it was looking like my 'big thing' for the year.
Looncurse & etc, though, I get why they do it. I honestly don't care very much- the Versus boxes seem like a preview or early release of character models, nice if you can get them, but after a while the new character models come out separately and the boxes as a whole really aren't a great deal unless you actually do happen to collect both factions. The wait can be somewhat annoying if the models are particularly impressive but... mostly they aren't. Its just a sales gimmick.
As for advertising- eh. Its their own webpage and that's pretty much the end of their public facing advertising (as opposed to sales catalogs/pitches to distributors/stores). Its a... dozen or so articles over a couple months and maybe a fancy website that's cute, maybe smartly designed but fairly empty (and too few pics that are really too small to get a good look at the contents). GW's concept of advertising is more cheap entertainment than actual sales persuasion.
drbored wrote: It still seems that too many of the hot ticket items are sold out far too quickly, even considering items that are supposed to sell fast, like Looncurse and other VS boxes.
Shadowspear they produced a lot of because it was Space Marines. In that regard, they overestimated the appeal of tacticool vanguard marines.
Either way, when you hype up a brand new addition to your line like Cursed City as much as they did, they need the content to back it up. I'd actually almost prefer that they did LESS advertising and let the products stand more on their own.
Oh, I can't call Cursed City anything but a massive screw up. I don't know what they were thinking, I don't know what problems they had, but the release was a mess, and their (lack of) response was worse. Even IF they eventually bring it back, they've made a dog's breakfast of it, and its largely killed my interest in it AND the upcoming vampire release. Which is a shame, because it was looking like my 'big thing' for the year.
Looncurse & etc, though, I get why they do it. I honestly don't care very much- the Versus boxes seem like a preview or early release of character models, nice if you can get them, but after a while the new character models come out separately and the boxes as a whole really aren't a great deal unless you actually do happen to collect both factions. The wait can be somewhat annoying if the models are particularly impressive but... mostly they aren't. Its just a sales gimmick.
As for advertising- eh. Its their own webpage and that's pretty much the end of their public facing advertising (as opposed to sales catalogs/pitches to distributors/stores). Its a... dozen or so articles over a couple months and maybe a fancy website that's cute, maybe smartly designed but fairly empty (and too few pics that are really too small to get a good look at the contents). GW's concept of advertising is more cheap entertainment than actual sales persuasion.
They do also send out review copies to a lot of the youtube influencers and website hosts. Now, I don't have a problem with the practice of sending copies to reviewers (a drop in the bucket compared to the number that are sold), but again, it's more hype that reaches further than their public facing website.
So, no matter how you slice it, it's a mess.
My worry for Vampires is that, like the vampire warband that just came out, it's going to sell out fast and people aren't going to be able to get the models they want, which will kill interest even further, and potentially shoot themselves in the foot when it comes to AoS 3.0 if that's indeed coming.
After all, if people that WANT to play the brand new game aren't able to get the things they need to play, be it the factions that just came out or are going to, then the number of people shouting loudly into the void because of minor inconveniences will only increase.
Yeah, if the game was always planned to be a "one printing and done" release, then the influencer copies make less sense - given how GW like their NDAs, I don't think the influencers were able to release any content until the day the pre-orders went up.
And, as we've seen, that wasn't the moment they needed extra hype
Were this a line item that was going to stick around for a couple of years - or even something where there'd be a second printing in six months - then the influencer copies make more sense due to the material they'd release over time keeping interest in the game.
Apparently GW though they had enough copies of Cursed City to last them 3-6 months, but they all sold out pretty much straight away.
Right now there is an unknown, serious problem with their warehouse - orders haven't gone out to FLGS or GW stores in the last few days, and some have been advised it'll be next week before they get stuff (so a lot of people won't be getting their pre-orders this weekend).
Days? Try months. My LGS is still waiting on those Blood Bowl starters and War Cry Alliance books. I know that distributors have typically given shops in the Southern US the shaft but this is a new level.
This has been the story every time a box set sells out.
Looncurse, Carrion Empire, Sisters of Battle box set, Indomitus, the early Kill Team boxes. Every single time it's "We thought we made enough to last for months and months!"
So the question I would pose to GW is: When are you going to learn?
Whoever is in charge of projections needs a bonk on the head, because they've undershot every hot item. The only things that haven't been hot sellers in terms of box sets in recent memory are... Catacombs and Rise of the Phoenix, but both of those were at a higher price point than others of the same type. Everything else sells out immediately, GW throw up their hands and say "We THOUGHT we had enough!" and we're supposed to say, what, "Oh, gosh, GW, it's the thought that counts."???
They're never going to learn, because they never actually undershot. They were always supposed to sell out instantly, to create artificial scarcity and make everyone do a mad rush for every box set, out of fear of missing out on it during the tiny window they have. It's all planned.
Apparently GW though they had enough copies of Cursed City to last them 3-6 months, but they all sold out pretty much straight away.
Right now there is an unknown, serious problem with their warehouse - orders haven't gone out to FLGS or GW stores in the last few days, and some have been advised it'll be next week before they get stuff (so a lot of people won't be getting their pre-orders this weekend).
Days? Try months. My LGS is still waiting on those Blood Bowl starters and War Cry Alliance books. I know that distributors have typically given shops in the Southern US the shaft but this is a new level.
This has been the story every time a box set sells out.
Looncurse, Carrion Empire, Sisters of Battle box set, Indomitus, the early Kill Team boxes. Every single time it's "We thought we made enough to last for months and months!"
So the question I would pose to GW is: When are you going to learn?
Whoever is in charge of projections needs a bonk on the head, because they've undershot every hot item. The only things that haven't been hot sellers in terms of box sets in recent memory are... Catacombs and Rise of the Phoenix, but both of those were at a higher price point than others of the same type. Everything else sells out immediately, GW throw up their hands and say "We THOUGHT we had enough!" and we're supposed to say, what, "Oh, gosh, GW, it's the thought that counts."???
They're never going to learn, because they never actually undershot. They were always supposed to sell out instantly, to create artificial scarcity and make everyone do a mad rush for every box set, out of fear of missing out on it during the tiny window they have. It's all planned.
So now that Cursed City sold out in 20 minutes or whatever it was, exactly how does that benefit GW? Customers are now even more afraid to lose out next time, so the next similar box will sell out in 15 minutes instead? And the one after in 10 minutes? GW will end up making exactly the same amount of money in that week. What would massively increase profits is having sufficient products available to sell to those eager customers. Decreasing production to inflate FOMO doesn't compensate for lost sales of customers who did indeed miss out, and it's a pointless strategy to further grow FOMO if selling out is basically the default anyway. Demand already outstrips supply. If they could increase supply, they presumably would. If they can, but instead choose to increase demand, they're idiots.
The more they sell, the more their profit margin for the item increases. Artificial scarcity is ridiculous.
It will be back up on sale again at some point. As has been said numerous times, the vast majority of costs are upfront. If there is demand, and they can produce more, they should and will, as it is quite literally, easy money.
What would be interesting is in future for such specific limited releases, they should do a kickstarter model style deposit/pre-order. It may involve releasing details far in advance (6 months) but it should be an option, they then cannot screw up the demand.
Another reason is, GW are just super behind in production due to covid and know they cannot risk delaying 40k releases (the real money earner) for the sake of a re-print of this release at the moment, that doesn't mean they won't free up in 6 months.
Is it planned though? I get you’ve got a permanent hate on for GW, and for unclear reasons dedicate your time to lurking on here looking for something to whine about.
But let’s just break it down to what we know, yeah?
1. They put a lot of effort into promoting Cursed City.
2. So far, this is the only Warhammer Quest core set which hasn’t remained in production for a decent period. Certainly both Hammerhal and Silver Tower were available concurrently.
3. These are unusual times. Not just COVID, but also Brexit. Both can be spanner’s in the works.
4. Over the past year, GW have seen a significant uptick in sales. Boxed games such as this are printed well in advance. Any numbers ordered likely won’t have factored in the upstick in sales. Comparing the six months to December 2019 (sales of £148m) to the six months to November 2020 (sales of £186m) reveals that. So the current scarcity could be the unintended victim of that uptick.
5. FOMO is utter mince here. Why? Because in the run up, GW did nothing to suggest this might a limited “one and done” run. At all. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Nowt. Zero. Not even a hint. Everyone assumed “new Quest set? Sweet, that’ll be around for a while, so no rush. Hence people being upset and irritated that it is now, possibly, a One And Done.
6. GW have already paid the vast majority of the costs for creating, assembling and selling the game. So if they were just evil money grubbing gits as you so often insist (apparently unlike every other company everywhere)? Why no Made to Order? We’ve seem them do this before. And it left a fair amount of scalpers with units they couldn’t flog at a profit. That was good for a laugh. So there’s seemingly no clear reason they haven’t Made to Order this at a bare minimum.
7. Read the actual post.
As HBMC said earlier, Not Expecting is not the same as Not Returning Ever. Sure, it doesn’t look good for a reprint, but it’s not categorically ruling it out.
So....what is going on? Nobody knows outside of GW. But given this flies in the face of FOMO, if you could stop claiming it, that’d be champion. Because FOMO requires the availability to be known to be limited before it goes on sale. Not after it’s already sold out, as was the case with Cursed City.
I dont get why people cant grasp this; GW dont need to say something is limited to create a FOMO... their CONSISTENT failure to produce stock to meet demand creates it with each ensuing release. Just like this one will for the next one.
If GW have supply ongoing chain issues (and covid and brexit might be bad, but not so bad that they’ve effected things in the past surely?) then they could slow down their release schedule... but they wont as there is a vast body of people in a frenzy to preorder another batch of models for their shame pile every single week, not to mention the foul scalpers.
So....what is going on? Nobody knows outside of GW. But given this flies in the face of FOMO, if you could stop claiming it, that’d be champion. Because FOMO requires the availability to be known to be limited before it goes on sale. Not after it’s already sold out, as was the case with Cursed City.
Having 'regular' items sell out, helps fomo. How can you argue against it? It doesn't matter if the item is limited or not.
It's now become a standard thing that to get the latest GW pre-order, you need to be online at release time, spamming refresh till it appears in the store, add to basket and buy asap. If you don't, you either won't get it, or will wait several months for the reprint. This means people are buying items from a few photos only. You don't get to see it physically and make a rational decision, you have to buy it the second it's on the webpage. As prices are not announced in advance, they're often higher than you expect, but you have to grab it quick or not get it without thinking.
Whether the scarcity is planned by GW, or a combo of Brexit/Covid problems, it certainly helps GW with the fomo purchases. However, by having this scarcity, it has made scalping far worse. All of which is bad for gamers.
That is the problem when you turn fans into fanatics- they will buy everything you toss at them, but at the price of buying everything you toss at them. The hype train cannot stop, or there is backlash.
And yes, whoever is responsible for sales projections at GW clearly bought into their own hype, because their big-ticket products (2-player/one-time boxes) always either sell out in an instant or linger forever like the awful Lumineth box. Complete failure to estimate demand every damn time.
Yeah, the scarcity helps day 1 sales, people know if they don't pre-order (and increasingly, if they don't pre-order direct from GW) they risk missing out, whether it's explicitly advertised as being a limited run product or not. I think it's pretty clear GW have struggled to up their production capacity (and, yeah, it's a boring refrain but Covid definitely won't have helped with that) and that's what we're seeing - they're just trying to balance demand vs their production capacity and in some cases, getting that balance wrong. They won't commit to a reprint likely because their production capacity is already fully committed to the Next Thing anyway (or, more realistically, the next several things), and that's before any supply chain issues with printed components are taken into account.
Luke82 wrote: I dont get why people cant grasp this; GW dont need to say something is limited to create a FOMO... their CONSISTENT failure to produce stock to meet demand creates it with each ensuing release. Just like this one will for the next one.
If GW have supply ongoing chain issues (and covid and brexit might be bad, but not so bad that they’ve effected things in the past surely?) then they could slow down their release schedule... but they wont as there is a vast body of people in a frenzy to preorder another batch of models for their shame pile every single week, not to mention the foul scalpers.
The situation is crazy.
But that's not the case consistently with everything GW release is it? It's this, Piety and Pain and Indomitus. 99% of everything they release (other than the upfront limited edition novels) stays available for months if not years. There's a low level, it could go at any point and won't come back fear, for sure, and they capitalise on that. But nothing in the WHQ line has ever sold out quicker than 6 months, so for fans of that line, there was no FOMO.
Likewise the Underworlds Vampires have gone but those will definitely come back because they have to for the game to function (if there are important universal cards in that pack). It'll get reprinted as they keep them in stock for two years and no-one is worrying about that.
I can't help but feel that people are so hooked on the Fear of Missing Out theory that its all they can see now and is the only marketing strategy that they keep ascribing to all of GW's marketing and actions.
I'm not denying that its there, but I think its something people are really getting hooked on as the base line for everything GW does. Even to the point where people are now saying that regular stock moving in and out of stock is FOMO.
From what i've seen that would really only apply to Forgeworld where falling out of stock can mean a product gets removed because it fell otu of stock because the mould broke and they've either lost the capacity to make a new one or can't secure funding to make a new one etc..
Otherwise most GW boxes are long term product lines. Even the short term discount boxes are just that, a short term discount. Piety and Pain is similar to GW just doing weekend sale on a selection of boxes. We all know that the new models inside will be sold on their own in the semi-near future; most of us online know that many of them will be fairly easily accessible in the first weeks in split boxes online. In the end you just miss out on a sale, which is the same for any sale on any website or store. The actual product itself will come around again.
Piety and Pain is similar to GW just doing weekend sale on a selection of boxes
significant difference is that the stock of Piety and Pain is going to be much more limited than stock of individual boxes of SoBs and DE. It's less akin to "weekend sale" and more to the stupid black friday "we have 50 tv's at -70%, good luck" promos that should die in fire along with the manager that approves them.
And yes, they will be released eventually, but GW once took over a year to release the individual hero units from their battleboxes, so people have been trained to fear how long it'll take.
FOMO is a real underpants gnome level theory for explaining GW's sales tactics. Though perhaps that explains some of the more interesting mental stretches I've seen around the forums concerning the 'absolutely insane costs of holding an item in a warehouse' and 'the genius business strategy of producing small amounts of a product to make sure you sell it all.' The problem with all this is the people are GW aren't guys on internet forums pretending to know what they're talking about, they'd never come up with any of this stuff themselves.
Piety and Pain is similar to GW just doing weekend sale on a selection of boxes
significant difference is that the stock of Piety and Pain is going to be much more limited than stock of individual boxes of SoBs and DE. It's less akin to "weekend sale" and more to the stupid black friday "we have 50 tv's at -70%, good luck" promos that should die in fire along with the manager that approves them.
And yes, they will be released eventually, but GW once took over a year to release the individual hero units from their battleboxes, so people have been trained to fear how long it'll take.
Aye I'll agree with both those points.
That said in practical terms GW has never really been in a position where they could do a major sale and not run out of stock unless its on very popular but exhausted product lines or on very unpopular stuff. Ergo things that will still sell, but which are just not the new-hotness of the month. Eg Indomitus will continue to sell really well even now, its tapered off a bit because the market got a huge glut all at once; but there's always new customers coming in and others returning and others trying things out.
GW has one big safety net in that their products don't devalue over time. Unlike films and music and quite honestly a LOT of other product lines; GW's don't go down and often only go up in value. Their only risks are long term storage costs and if they had too many products not fast sell and were left sitting on a mountain of stock - which honestly is far from likely to happen right now.
I stopped by my local GW to politely hassle the owner about Cursed CIty but they were closed. There is a CC box on the wall so I know they have at least one box. They usually keep doubles of the big stuff in the stock room.
Initially I was jazzed to use some of the models for Warcry. The more I think about it all I want are the zombies and sleletons so I can run hordes of Death in the solo AI scenarios. The rest of the models are really nice, but I have no use for them. Now I see that the zombies and skeletons are supposed to be released as individual sets so CC is pretty much a waste for me.
frankelee wrote: FOMO is a real underpants gnome level theory for explaining GW's sales tactics. Though perhaps that explains some of the more interesting mental stretches I've seen around the forums concerning the 'absolutely insane costs of holding an item in a warehouse' and 'the genius business strategy of producing small amounts of a product to make sure you sell it all.' The problem with all this is the people are GW aren't guys on internet forums pretending to know what they're talking about, they'd never come up with any of this stuff themselves.
It takes but a few seconds to google how luxury brands (which GW sees itself as) use artificial scarcity to drive up their perceived value and prices, you could have done that instead of typing this dog turd post man, use your time better!
I get its hard to admit you’ve been duped many, many times, but c’mon dudes this product, and many like it, sold out within hours of its preorder... how incompetent do people think this highly successful company is? So much more comforting to think some tragedy has befallen GW’s supply chain then to accept participation in a con job i guess.
frankelee wrote: FOMO is a real underpants gnome level theory for explaining GW's sales tactics. Though perhaps that explains some of the more interesting mental stretches I've seen around the forums concerning the 'absolutely insane costs of holding an item in a warehouse' and 'the genius business strategy of producing small amounts of a product to make sure you sell it all.' The problem with all this is the people are GW aren't guys on internet forums pretending to know what they're talking about, they'd never come up with any of this stuff themselves.
It takes but a few seconds to google how luxury brands (which GW sees itself as) use artificial scarcity to drive up their perceived value and prices, you could have done that instead of typing this dog turd post man, use your time better!
I get its hard to admit you’ve been duped many, many times, but c’mon dudes this product, and many like it, sold out within hours of its preorder... how incompetent do people think this highly successful company is? So much more comforting to think some tragedy has befallen GW’s supply chain then to accept participation in a con job i guess.
GW want to become mainstream. They will not achieve this without spreading their products as far and wide as possible. Especially something like Cursed City which with its generic fantasy/horror setting and boardgame character is designed to have an appeal to people way beyond their usual audience.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And they know this.
A limited box for the FOMO crowd would not have push fit minis. Those are for the beginner/gateway products (easy to build, underworlds, blood bowl etc)
"over the next couple of weeks, there will be a short pause where we’ll have no new pre-orders. Have no fear, though – new releases will be coming your way before you know it."
Where this fits in with Cursed City getting a reprint (or not) is unclear.
But I will be interested to see the response from the 'FOMO Brigade' who think that underselling a product which clearly has tens of thousands of customers who would have paid full price (or perhaps a premium) as some sort of 4-D chess.
As someone in a top-end provider service provider (albeit as a lawyer I don't have experience of manufacturing), I can tell you that if you have the opportunity to sell your good/service at full price, and the capacity, you do it. There is no advantage to GW for hobbyists with £££ and nothing GW to spend on it going to buy a product from GW's rivals.
If GW wanted this to be limited, they could have charged double the price, and been upfront about it being highly limited. Or, the much easier proposition, they could have made it a smaller undertaking to design/produce/market. Why not make it an exclusive Underworlds Warband?
How would the business genius class of Dakka explain FOMO for CC in a shareholder's meeting as leading to either long-term value or short-term cashflow? Would the announcement the next day that CC was coming back have harmed GW and if so, how?
