I for one would be happy for a new zombie kit given the current one is basically unpurchasable, but am terrified at the notion of new skeletons. The current ones aren't perfect but have aged well and are cheap. Given that they are needed in great number, that price is important. A new kit at $50 for 10 would be more horrifying than actual walking dead.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I for one would be happy for a new zombie kit given the current one is basically unpurchasable, but am terrified at the notion of new skeletons. The current ones aren't perfect but have aged well and are cheap. Given that they are needed in great number, that price is important. A new kit at $50 for 10 would be more horrifying than actual walking dead.
They could always repack the old ones 5 to box with a price rise
Cronch wrote: They could always repack the old ones 5 to box with a price rise
Or rather make 10 wonderfully detailed and unique Zombies in excellent dynamic poses that will look weird the moment you have more than 1 of each in a squad.
Meh, Warlord sells 90 skeletons for $80 and im sure I can find that box set for 40-50% off Warlord's price if I try hard enough. Not gonna cry if GW suddenly stops selling their current kit, but it would be a shame because they're good looking and have simple, generic design that works with other 25-28mm fantasy systems.
They're also very specifically armed with ancient Greek weaponry; Oathmark seems far more fitting for a fantasy universe (although stylistically based on bronze age Celts I think, it's far less recognizable).
They're also very specifically armed with ancient Greek weaponry; Oathmark seems far more fitting for a fantasy universe (although stylistically based on bronze age Celts I think, it's far less recognizable).
You say that as if AoS doesn’t already have a clashing mishmash of nonsensical aesthetics
The good thing about Warlord’s skellies and some of their dark age Hail Caesar kits is that the weapons aren’t fixed to any of the hands, so you can easily swap the Greek weapons for Viking or Saxon weapons on your skeletons.
Or if you really want to go digging around you can try to find those plastic weapon sprues Reaper did during one of their KS campaigns and never released for purchase since.
Those had some fancier weapons on their if you want skeletons with bling.
Interesting tidbits in there, about why there's the staked graves on them...
The grim truth is that the living dead far outnumber actual living beings in the Cursed City. The Shyish Nadir is so close that the magic of Death suffuses everything. This foul energy concentrates in places already associated with death – such as the mass burial grounds scattered around Ulfenkarn’s various districts.
These so-called corpse-gardens have attained a sickening sentience, a sort of dread hunger that seemingly employs undead bodies like puppets to seek out fresh souls. The Deadwalker Zombies roam the streets of Ulfenkarn, preying upon anything that gets too close.
Also this:
This baffling creature buries victims alive in the corpse-gardens and unleashes them later at his vampiric masters’ bidding. His massive Gravekeeper’s spade is just as good at creating corpses as exhuming them, and his bone mask and accoutrements of death leave little doubt as to his general disposition.
According to local legends, Gorslav never speaks – so nobody can determine if he was once a mortal man that’s turned into a glorified zombie-like his charges. In fact, it’s not even clear if the Gravekeeper is a single being or a gruesome order of necrotheurges. What’s not in dispute, however, is his mastery of the winds of death and his command over the Deadwalkers.
They'd be excellent zombie models if they were just regular zombies without the graves, but GW has to make everything unique and trademarkable. As a result we've got some contrived bs where the zombies are controlled by death energy possessing the graves on their backs as if the graves were a fungus or parasite, but other people have already done fungus and parasite zombies, so GW came up with this instead.
All this talk of the dead outnumbering the living in this cursed city.
Why are there normal people still living in this city!!!
"Honey! There are dead roaming the streets, the city guard are all skeletons, and the mayor is an evil Vampire. We need to move."
"But dear, the view we have from our house is incredible. And we're so close a great school district."
zend wrote: They'd be excellent zombie models if they were just regular zombies without the graves, but GW has to make everything unique and trademarkable. As a result we've got some contrived bs where the zombies are controlled by death energy possessing the graves on their backs as if the graves were a fungus or parasite, but other people have already done fungus and parasite zombies, so GW came up with this instead.
We should consider our selves lucky that they're still using the word "zombie" and not Gravewalker Soulsearchers or some other such nonsense.
And if they were just generic zombies, "oh GW just made zombies how boring".
Zombies, in fantasy settings, always have some element of "death energy has animated them". Ulfenkarn is supposed to be near the center of Shyish...even before the Necroquake you probably didn't just leave dead things laying around. They're seemingly dipping back to that well of a genius loci that they've given the Lumineth's Aelementari Temples by having foci of death energy gaining a kind of sentience.
It's the idea that there's sometimes just bad places in the world. The places that make the hairs on the back of your neck raise, that make you want to hurry past them as the dark settles in, or that folk used to make warding gestures as they went past.
It's the kind of place where folk tales of spirits and spooks grow up around. Where everyone has had something weird happen.
I'm 100% here for this concept. It's a kind of folk horror that makes a world feel lived in.
Kanluwen wrote: And if they were just generic zombies, "oh GW just made zombies how boring".
Zombies, in fantasy settings, always have some element of "death energy has animated them". Ulfenkarn is supposed to be near the center of Shyish...even before the Necroquake you probably didn't just leave dead things laying around. They're seemingly dipping back to that well of a genius loci that they've given the Lumineth's Aelementari Temples by having foci of death energy gaining a kind of sentience.
It's the idea that there's sometimes just bad places in the world. The places that make the hairs on the back of your neck raise, that make you want to hurry past them as the dark settles in, or that folk used to make warding gestures as they went past.
It's the kind of place where folk tales of spirits and spooks grow up around. Where everyone has had something weird happen.
I'm 100% here for this concept. It's a kind of folk horror that makes a world feel lived in.
No, if they do normal zombies the most likely response would be "Thank god they've finally updated that awful zombie kit.... shame they want $55 for 10 for them!"
The new Wight King on steed is fantastic..... because it's just a straight model update and they didn't try to re-invent the wheel. It's also proof that your evil Shyish death energy can resurrect corpses as they were without being some wankage involving possessing another inanimate object first, and then THAT object controls the corpse. I'd complain way harder if they said that his helmet is what's possessed.
I've said it before, but the new mounted Wight King is the most Warhammer Fantasy model GW have made in years and years. It's amazing, and totally not an AoS mini.
Kanluwen wrote: And if they were just generic zombies, "oh GW just made zombies how boring".
Nah I'm pretty sure people would be happy with a better looking zombie kit.
Kanluwen wrote: I'm 100% here for this concept. It's a kind of folk horror that makes a world feel lived in.
I don't mind the concept to be honest, but as long as it's something that stays within the context of the cursed city, and not Warhammer at large.
Surely the lore suggests that these zombies are somewhat unique to the Cursed City, given that it's the city itself responsible for them, and that the generic AoS zombie is something else as well?
We've seen time and again with GW that miniatures in boxed sets don't necessarily update their mainline system counterparts, even when there's no reason not to reuse the files, to say nothing of when the designs straight up make no sense outside of their original context.
By all means, be disappointed in the sculpts themselves if they're not your flavour, but there's no need to be disappointed that they're the new norm for zombies when they're clearly not.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I've said it before, but the new mounted Wight King is the most Warhammer Fantasy model GW have made in years and years. It's amazing, and totally not an AoS mini.
Nailed it. I like a bunch AoS minis such as the Idoneth, pretty much all of the new Chaos mortals (spank naming conventions and monopose kits aside), and even the new skeletons within Cursed City, but that Wight King is just top notch and further cements my desire for AoS to return to more grounded, generic designs. Generic fantasy just looks better sometimes.
H.B.M.C. wrote: All this talk of the dead outnumbering the living in this cursed city.
Why are there normal people still living in this city!!!
"Honey! There are dead roaming the streets, the city guard are all skeletons, and the mayor is an evil Vampire. We need to move."
"But dear, the view we have from our house is incredible. And we're so close a great school district."
The devil you know right. Picture this most likely of scenarios
The Smiths have a nice house..multiple generations of Smiths have lived there. The city has been...mostly safe. Chaos shows up to eat everyone. City is ..less safe. Vampire guys shows up..saves city from insane chaos people and the city is safe again...Kinda. Thanks Vamp lord guy. Slowly..city start to get worse. But its cool..we have jobs and our nice house. Plus the wilderness is bad, those insane chaos people live there. City has gotten far worse but your used to it now..you lock your door, arm yourself and ..mostly..everything is ok. City is super now has undead roaming around it. Well crap..lets leave. Pack your things put them in a cart..collect whatever money you have (there is no Credit cards or banks so you take your wealth with you) Maybe make it 2 miles out of the city before night falls and are ripped apart by either
A:chaos
B:undead
C: chaos undead
Hmm..maybe I'll stay in the city were I can lock my door in my nice house where I still (during the day) have a job. City is pretty awful...but at least we know how to survive here
H.B.M.C. wrote:I've said it before, but the new mounted Wight King is the most Warhammer Fantasy model GW have made in years and years. It's amazing, and totally not an AoS mini.
AoS is WHF+X. If you put every model or faction that wouldn't fit into the WHF setting to the AoS category - well, why not. Sure, this is AoS. And this? And as we're talking about dead people - the whole Nighthaunt faction would have had a place in the Old World - the Ossiarch Bonereapers rather not (though better than Sky Dwarves and Sigmarines).
Tim the Biovore wrote:Surely the lore suggests that these zombies are somewhat unique to the Cursed City, given that it's the city itself responsible for them, and that the generic AoS zombie is something else as well?
We've seen time and again with GW that miniatures in boxed sets don't necessarily update their mainline system counterparts, even when there's no reason not to reuse the files, to say nothing of when the designs straight up make no sense outside of their original context.
By all means, be disappointed in the sculpts themselves if they're not your flavour, but there's no need to be disappointed that they're the new norm for zombies when they're clearly not.
This. I doubt whenever GW updates their zombies they'll all look like these.
Dryaktylus wrote: AoS is WHF+X. If you put every model or faction that wouldn't fit into the WHF setting to the AoS category - well, why not. Sure, this is AoS. And this? And as we're talking about dead people - the whole Nighthaunt faction would have had a place in the Old World - the Ossiarch Bonereapers rather not (though better than Sky Dwarves and Sigmarines).
Cool. But I thought my meaning was clear.
The new Wight King looks like it walked right out of an old Warhammer Armies: Undead book.
The new Wight King looks like it walked right out of an old Warhammer Armies: Undead book.
Yeah. An old undead book, not vampire counts. The shield iconography is off the old metal (now resin) mounted wight king, not the current black knights with their weirder shield shapes based on curves and bat wings.
Its properly grim fantastical. And the armor and barding have a real presence on the model, rather than the stick-on shoulder pieces that we've been saddled with for a while.
H.B.M.C. wrote: All this talk of the dead outnumbering the living in this cursed city.
Why are there normal people still living in this city!!!
"Honey! There are dead roaming the streets, the city guard are all skeletons, and the mayor is an evil Vampire. We need to move."
"But dear, the view we have from our house is incredible. And we're so close a great school district."
The devil you know right. Picture this most likely of scenarios
The Smiths have a nice house..multiple generations of Smiths have lived there. The city has been...mostly safe. Chaos shows up to eat everyone. City is ..less safe. Vampire guys shows up..saves city from insane chaos people and the city is safe again...Kinda. Thanks Vamp lord guy. Slowly..city start to get worse. But its cool..we have jobs and our nice house. Plus the wilderness is bad, those insane chaos people live there. City has gotten far worse but your used to it now..you lock your door, arm yourself and ..mostly..everything is ok. City is super now has undead roaming around it. Well crap..lets leave. Pack your things put them in a cart..collect whatever money you have (there is no Credit cards or banks so you take your wealth with you) Maybe make it 2 miles out of the city before night falls and are ripped apart by either
A:chaos
B:undead
C: chaos undead
Hmm..maybe I'll stay in the city were I can lock my door in my nice house where I still (during the day) have a job. City is pretty awful...but at least we know how to survive here
All of this, plus the generic medieval-fantasy ground-state of cultures in Warhammer means that moving to a new town is a horrendous nightmare. First you need to know where one is to go to. Then you have to rely on rumour and hope to determine if you have a chance of making a living there. Moving your household is a practical quagmire too because there’s no such thing as “three men and a cart removals” so you have to save up and probably buy a cart of suitable size, same for your draught animals, learn how to drive them in your spare time (which you don’t have because that also wasn’t really a thing before the industrial revolution) and then pack up everything to move and sell the rest. Which may be difficult if everyone else is also moving out and depressing the market. Plus you probably can’t sell your house for similar reasons, even assuming you actually have legal title to it in the first place, or that the new authorities would respect such a thing. Actually getting anywhere is a trial and a half (well travelled routes have inns and way-stops but they also have bandits, while off-roading takes longer and has a chance of random beast attacks) even assuming your planned route and destination are correct. Then once you get there, having dodged the bandits, escaped that displaced beast, and avoided dying of dysentery on the way, you have to set up from scratch as whatever your trade was before, prove to the locals that you are trustworthy and so on and so forth.
Moving cities today is the most stressful thing you can do and that’s even with the ability to have a guaranteed job at the other end, the assistance of others to actually move, a strong transport system to get you there in days instead of weeks or months, and reliable information about both the route and destination, and banditry at such a low level that your medieval ancestors would be amazed. Take all that away and “you know, mrs von saurkraut is actually a lot less pushy about the rent since she died” starts to seem like a reasonable opinion…
zend wrote: They'd be excellent zombie models if they were just regular zombies without the graves, but GW has to make everything unique and trademarkable. As a result we've got some contrived bs where the zombies are controlled by death energy possessing the graves on their backs as if the graves were a fungus or parasite, but other people have already done fungus and parasite zombies, so GW came up with this instead.
Sculptors I doubt are told to make things that can be a trademark item.
They just sculpt cool things for a boxed game, and this is what they thought were cool.
Because literally any other company could now sculpt zombies with gravestones.
As others have said this really seems more like a thematic choice for this box.
I would imagine the main zombie kit redo (if and when..) will be “slightly” more generic.
I say slightly as yeah sure, it’ll still have it’s aos twist maybe, but I think not as much as this, where the specific story explains why the zombies in this particular place are the way they are.
Yep, the lore behind Cursed City is fully in grim horror Warhammer tales, to me. You can find references to old Mordheim design as well, just more focused on Death being everywhere.
I like it the more I read.
Miniatures have a specific design for the city, it's also clear as well. It's not just mere generic zombies or skeletons. They're zombies from the Corpse-Gardens and skeletons raised from the city's guard. That's what some people here fail to understand.
And yeah, the city is awful and you can ask why they keep living here instead of leaving. Exactly the same question ignorant people ask about other countries where life is awful with war everywhere - most people just can't afford to leave, because of everything they have to leave behind or just are unable to. Situation is even certainly more terrible in a fantasy world in the Realm of Death, where leaving outside the city's wall by yourself without any armed escort is a sure death sentence.
So staying in the city where danger is still there, sure, but you aren't certain of dieing tomorrow is certainly better than going in the wilds and have no chance of survival at all.
Of course, rich people / skilled warriors who could afford to leave / flee the city certainly did so already (we have a glimpse of it with some of the heroes, after all), but that's not the case for the majority of its population who don't have these advantages. Being a random poor / modest guy in Warhammer World is sure a grim fate.
My own personal take on the zombies is that just the custom way of burying people since the old days in the city.
Stacked tru the hearth with the coffin lid and facing down just to be sure it remain dead if the person was afflicted by vampirism or could never dig toward the surface but deeper if turned undead (i remember that was some kind of superstition back in real life transilvania ).
The reason for them walking with the lid on their backs, well look at the Gravekeeper model and you can figure it for yourself.
The new Wight King looks like it walked right out of an old Warhammer Armies: Undead book.
Yeah. An old undead book, not vampire counts. The shield iconography is off the old metal (now resin) mounted wight king, not the current black knights with their weirder shield shapes based on curves and bat wings.
Its properly grim fantastical. And the armor and barding have a real presence on the model, rather than the stick-on shoulder pieces that we've been saddled with for a while.
Imagine if they'd do an actual revenant army and not skelletontrademarkis or vampire underlings in that style.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I've said it before, but the new mounted Wight King is the most Warhammer Fantasy model GW have made in years and years. It's amazing, and totally not an AoS mini.
Nailed it. I like a bunch AoS minis such as the Idoneth, pretty much all of the new Chaos mortals (spank naming conventions and monopose kits aside), and even the new skeletons within Cursed City, but that Wight King is just top notch and further cements my desire for AoS to return to more grounded, generic designs. Generic fantasy just looks better sometimes.
I kinda agree, he has that goofy 80s cartoon look to him that Old World models usually had. No grimdark or nobledark or whatnot, just whatever the sculptors' kid happened to watch that morning
Blackstone Fortress had the Spindle Drones which were specific to the setting and created just for the game itself. I doubt we'll ever see them again once BSF disappears.
The zombies in this box seem to be the same thing - we're just questioning it because zombies are already an established thing.
Dryaktylus wrote: And as we're talking about dead people - the whole Nighthaunt faction would have had a place in the Old World - the Ossiarch Bonereapers rather not
The Bonereapers are just a concept originally visited in the Tomb Kings army books. People often forget, but the Tomb Kings bone giant wasn't the reanimated skeleton of a giant. Rather, it was a gigantic humanoid construct fashioned out of bone. Ushabti were similar, though they had a mix of stone and bone, and had obviously non-human heads. Their forms were inhabited only by the spirits of the greatest warriors. Finally, there were the tomb scorpions. Those were fashioned out of stone. But the animating force for them was a mummified lich priest.
The 8th Edition army book added a number of new constructs. But I'm choosing to ignore them for the time being as they don't really add anything that the three above haven't already provided.
So, sure, the Bonreapers would need a spot on the map opened up for them in the Old World, along with an explanation of who these guys are. But they're basically using elements that the Tomb Kings had already introduced to the lore. The only real difference is the form that the results take, and the sheer volume of what the Bonereapers are doing in comparison to what the Tomb Kings did.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I've said it before, but the new mounted Wight King is the most Warhammer Fantasy model GW have made in years and years. It's amazing, and totally not an AoS mini.
Nailed it. I like a bunch AoS minis such as the Idoneth, pretty much all of the new Chaos mortals (spank naming conventions and monopose kits aside), and even the new skeletons within Cursed City, but that Wight King is just top notch and further cements my desire for AoS to return to more grounded, generic designs. Generic fantasy just looks better sometimes.
I kinda agree, he has that goofy 80s cartoon look to him that Old World models usually had. No grimdark or nobledark or whatnot, just whatever the sculptors' kid happened to watch that morning
I'm pretty sure the "Elf Kangaroo Cavalry" fill the "goofy 80s cartoon look" quote a lot more than the previewed Wight King.
The situation outside the city is even worse. Staying put is actually the safest thing to do, that's exactly what makes it so horrible. Not being able to leave is one thing, having to choose staying because it is the better option despite everything...
Now if you were a badass that could seriously fight then yeah, getting out and surviving the trip to another location becomes a realistic option. All those people are already long gone or... 'conscripted' into service.
Carlovonsexron wrote: Indeed; I think the new elf cavalry is neat,. but its much more he-man than the wight king is.
Kangaroo cav is he-man, Skellylord is Skeleton Warriors.
Given the generic (though very executed) design of the wight king I don't think of he man when I look at 8t, even if it had parallels there. But the kangaroo cav? The only.exostong franchise I'm aware of to invoke that kind of design is he-man, so its a much stronger connection for me.
Having just picked up some back issues of WD, did anyone else catch the namedrop in issue #460 of the Vyrkos Vampires?
Amongst them is Hrunspuul, the Hound of the Cairns, who folklore claims bestowed the curse of unlife upon the first of the ferocious Vyrkos vampires. Though maybe Hunspuul is just another of Nagash's many guises; with godbeasts, it's hard to know where legend begins and ends!
Wonder if we were supposed to see Cursed City last year?
Kanluwen wrote: Having just picked up some back issues of WD, did anyone else catch the namedrop in issue #460 of the Vyrkos Vampires?
Amongst them is Hrunspuul, the Hound of the Cairns, who folklore claims bestowed the curse of unlife upon the first of the ferocious Vyrkos vampires. Though maybe Hunspuul is just another of Nagash's many guises; with godbeasts, it's hard to know where legend begins and ends!
Wonder if we were supposed to see Cursed City last year?
GW also just likes teasing future releases. I'm blanking on any good examples, but Sigvald in the mirror was teased a long time before the Hedonites dropped. Kharadron also got a few teases in battle tomes before they debuted. And the goblin sky pirates have appeared so many times in battle tomes, white dwarfs, and even black library stores, I'll be shocked if they don't get an official release
I’m jonesing over here, GW! Just like, release it already.
If not a release, then a rough window. I'm putting off buying stuff for other projects because I don't know if this is coming soon or coming 'you know, whenever.'
And the weird 40k schedule isn't helping either. 'We're going to talk about War Zone whatever.' Great, but... is there other chaos stuff coming with Be'lakor? Do I need to get some 'start collectings' before a price rise? Are there orks before June? Something, anything? Bueller?
I mean, I guess I can keep not spending money just in case this comes out before April. Or in April. Or maybe May.
Let me plan my hobby budget, idiots.
I was thinking that, too. The tiles image in last night's preview looks pretty rough. We haven't got enough good pictures of the tiles to make a decent judgement though imo
I’m jonesing over here, GW! Just like, release it already.
If not a release, then a rough window. I'm putting off buying stuff for other projects because I don't know if this is coming soon or coming 'you know, whenever.'
And the weird 40k schedule isn't helping either. 'We're going to talk about War Zone whatever.' Great, but... is there other chaos stuff coming with Be'lakor? Do I need to get some 'start collectings' before a price rise? Are there orks before June? Something, anything? Bueller?
I mean, I guess I can keep not spending money just in case this comes out before April. Or in April. Or maybe May.
Let me plan my hobby budget, idiots.
See, they rely on impulsive purchases for stuff like this. You feel you HAVE to have this so it doesn't really matter when it's released or how much notice you get. But if they put out the newest version of "Captain Blahbiitty blah" then you might fail that Will save and buy it too!
Billicus wrote: Oh great, we're getting another hot mess 40k box set first. Very disappointing.
That's no surprise. This boxset was teased ages ago, way before we even had an inkling of Cursed City. Plus, its just a normal, weekly release kind of set. People will buy it for the sisters and lelith, and then try to sell the DE half online
Wonder if the tiles are revealed like previous Warhammer Quest or if the map is set at the beginning of the game like in Black Fortress.
The gateways are a bit underwhelming. Would have love to have plastic models for those. Oh well, it's not like it's hard to find / build.
I notice there are different "gateway-like" at the sides of the board showed. Looking like exits / entrances ? One is different from the others. Maybe reinforcements entries ?
I’m jonesing over here, GW! Just like, release it already.
If not a release, then a rough window. I'm putting off buying stuff for other projects because I don't know if this is coming soon or coming 'you know, whenever.'
And the weird 40k schedule isn't helping either. 'We're going to talk about War Zone whatever.' Great, but... is there other chaos stuff coming with Be'lakor? Do I need to get some 'start collectings' before a price rise? Are there orks before June? Something, anything? Bueller?
I mean, I guess I can keep not spending money just in case this comes out before April. Or in April. Or maybe May.
Let me plan my hobby budget, idiots.
See, they rely on impulsive purchases for stuff like this. You feel you HAVE to have this so it doesn't really matter when it's released or how much notice you get. But if they put out the newest version of "Captain Blahbiitty blah" then you might fail that Will save and buy it too!
If that's what they rely on, they're idiots. I feel I want this, not 'have to have' it, so I'm not spending on current projects I could get distracted from.
They've set up the exact opposite of impulsive purchases.
Sarouan wrote: Wonder if the tiles are revealed like previous Warhammer Quest or if the map is set at the beginning of the game like in Black Fortress.
The gateways are a bit underwhelming. Would have love to have plastic models for those. Oh well, it's not like it's hard to find / build.
I notice there are different "gateway-like" at the sides of the board showed. Looking like exits / entrances ? One is different from the others. Maybe reinforcements entries ?
the once at the sides could also be spawning points
In at least two of those rooms you can see sun beams coming in from windows. No torches or candles or anything like that. It really does look like daytime indoors and nightime outdoors. Not sure what to make of that.
NephMakes wrote: In at least two of those rooms you can see sun beams coming in from windows. No torches or candles or anything like that. It really does look like daytime indoors and nightime outdoors. Not sure what to make of that.
NephMakes wrote: In at least two of those rooms you can see sun beams coming in from windows. No torches or candles or anything like that. It really does look like daytime indoors and nightime outdoors. Not sure what to make of that.
Yeah sure, but they're drawn in such a way as to suggest shafts of bright daylight coming in through windows.
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NephMakes wrote: In at least two of those rooms you can see sun beams coming in from windows. No torches or candles or anything like that. It really does look like daytime indoors and nightime outdoors. Not sure what to make of that.
I'm wondering if they are reversible, with day-time on one side and night-time on the other, as the night time one with the flowerbed is the same shape (flipped) as the daylight one with the skull and cross-swords on the floor. It might be that each map is set up either daytime or night-time, and they are just trying to show off the tiles by mixing them?
They're purposefully colored different to differentiate them. Indoor tones are different because they have different light sources and the artists understand this because they have years more formal study and training than the average dakkanaut who doesn't.
Probably the tiles will represent both day and night, so they just went with something atmospheric. The light through the windows could be the sun, or it could also be the moon. This is why the light from the windows is a neutral whitish color. The moon isn't blue, it doesn't shine blue light.
I like the tiles though, I think they look really good and have some real inspiration behind them.
They've all got the same light source for the most part - the sun. They probably are reversible, but that makes it a weird choice to take the photo with the indoor ones clearly on the daylight side and the outdoor ones on night.
That whole "they have years of study you don't" thing is laughable, any idiot can see what I'm talking about, it is jarring as hell.
I like it. For a 2D play area (I’m sure some champion of the people will create stl files for 3D gaming), it offers a clear delineation between indoor and outdoor locations.
And it’s clear the city is meant to be crowded and higgledy piggledy. I dunno if anyone else has been to Brighton, but it’s very much like The Lanes. Twisting, winding, super narrow alleys and streets.
Leggy wrote: If the outdoors are meant to be night, why do they have shadows?
Because at night, sunlight reflects off the moon, this tends to be represented in art by soft light with a blue tint. But I haven't had the years of art school necessary to know that so this comment must be a figment of your imagination
If there are candle/flame lights on it makes it warmer light than cooler (orange/yellow vs blue), but at night you’d still get the light reflection of the moon through, to show the lighter parts.
It doesn’t work so much with modern day lights as you don’t get the moon reflecting light patches on the floor as the house lights are way too bright. But with olden day lights you would, if you’ve ever stayed like in a log cabin or something.
But I don’t really know that they’ve thought about it that much..
Either way, I like the tiles themselves, so can forgive whatever.
Leggy wrote: If the outdoors are meant to be night, why do they have shadows?
It’s daylight. The interiors are lit through the windows and the courtyards and narrow streets are overshadowed by the buildings. You can literally see rooflines and chimneys in the shadows on the “exterior” tiles.
That said, this is also AoS, where they don’t have laws of physics so much as polite suggestions.
Lots of bending over backwards to make excuses for what seems to be pure sloppyness by GW, again. Tho "if you don't like it you just don't understand art" does take the cake.
OMG the outdoor tiles during the day would be lit at approximately 10,000 lux, while the indoor areas using windows and Medieval light sources would only be around 100 lux and should be nearly black since we're seeing them at the same time. I sure hope somebody got fired for that blunder!
I'm always amazed at the pretzels you all can twist yourselves into to save face when you say something... err incorrect. Be angry at GW and whine, it's your right as a human being. I was just noting your concerns were worded in such a way that you sound silly and are literally wrong. But go nuts, keep digging your holes I'm sure GW will listen or this product will fail terribly, and of course the art world will completely rewrite the books on how lighting works. lol
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if there are day and night tiles. We've already seen that there's some kind of counter that looks like the sun is getting dimmer.Though more likely, the interiors are just lit up for some reason
I mean i could be wrong but i don't see the street tiles being night time. You can clearly see the shadows cast by the buildings on them with the rest of the tile in sunlight.
Moonlight is actually a lower colour temperature (i.e. less blue) than sunlight. The reason things look more blue at night is because of the way your eyes alter their relative sensitivity to different colours in low light levels (the Purkinje effect).
GaroRobe wrote: Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if there are day and night tiles. We've already seen that there's some kind of counter that looks like the sun is getting dimmer.Though more likely, the interiors are just lit up for some reason
Oh yeah, you can see the night/day counters here. Night/day gameplay mechanics definitely makes sense for a game about vampires. I guess they haven't said much about that part yet.
To me, the shadows on the outdoor tiles look like they're cast by moonlight.
Since they're in Shyish, would daylight even be what we'd consider daylight? Nagash is a jerk, but I wouldn't put it past him to make his realm a bit more habitable for his vampiric children. (Artwork from the game does imply there is normal day, since the skeletons are shown walking around under a blue sky)
A small digression on night/day discussion.
Do we have any idea about heroes compatibility with previous Warhammer Quests. I've seen they use similar dice as Blackstone fortress but then again hero cards don't look so different from previous instalments.
This upcoming and the most recent versions of Warhammer Quest put a heavy emphasis on named characters.
Looking through my Silver Tower/Hammerhall cards, the characters are generic and not "characters" in the same sense.
So whilst it would make sense for the existing heroes/villains to work with the new game, GW may have changed a few things here and there because those old characters aren't named characters.
Yeah, they went pretty broad with the characters for the AOS quest games too. Lots of expansions, but only grouping pre existing models together. And sometimes, just giving rules without including models.
If this game is closer to Blackstone Fortress (which did have named characters), we'll probably get occasional new heroes in the white dwarf (named characters, but using existing models), one via the novel, and then actual expansions with brand new models. But unless GW is feeling particularly nostalgic, the older heroes are probably sitting this adventure out in the Silver Tower or Hammerhal.
dubovac wrote: A small digression on night/day discussion.
Do we have any idea about heroes compatibility with previous Warhammer Quests. I've seen they use similar dice as Blackstone fortress but then again hero cards don't look so different from previous instalments.
Since the core mechanics have only been built on since Silver Tower and Shadows over Hammerhal, i would think backwards compatibility is relatively easy. It would be more difficult to use old heroes in Cursed City since they would have no stat for defence dice, agility etc.
Every heroes play the same "rolling for crit" game. Stat are pretty much simplified to the max down to just symbols. It'd be pretty easy to make your own unicorn heroes or adversaries, and since this game isn't competitive player vs player, balance can be adjusted on the fly. These ain't Gloohaven heroes, these are pretty stat blocks.
The secondary skill of most Silver Tower and Hammer heroes can also be directly ported over.
So in the previous fantasy WHQ games heroes were just a single card, and so they made loads of those, both as printed cards, in the app and in White Dwarf. All for existing minis.
In BSF characters were more complex, you needed the character card, but also the initiative card, possibly a card to add to the discovery deck that inspired you - I don't know if there was any custom gear either?
Regardless, that meant that they never released any heroes outside of the base box and the Escalation expansion. What they did do is have "retinue" characters, who were extra characters that you could recruit to help out, who were like heroes but a bit simpler. They printed a bunch of these in White Dwarf and the annual. These all used existing GW minis.
Now, for Cursed City we already know the novel comes with a "Hero card". What's interesting is that it specifically says "Hero" and it's singular "Card" - which suggest they're reverting back to approach of being able to produce new heroes from just a single card. Which makes sense as it did feel like they had written themselves into a corner with BSF in terms of allowing you to use other models, so we got this weird "retinue" thing that didn't please anyone.
What complicates things is that the images we see do show both initiative cards and "empowerment" cards in the game. What I think may be happening is that each hero has a certain archetype (see the text at the very top of the hero cards on a coloured background) and the initiative and empowerment cards are per archetype, rather than per named character. (The text on the empowerment cards doesn't seem to be long enough to match the names anyway).
Presumably there will be a rule of "max one hero of each archetype per game" - so you can bring another hero along but that will lock out one of the core box ones.
Voss wrote: I'm imagining her neck and back problems. A wimple/hood, a headdress and that huge back thing with the attached scrolls is a bit much.
Everything else is good, but the headwear could stand to be stripped down.
I have seen people with much bigger and heavier headwear in Las Palma's Drag Queen festival and Tenerife's Carnivale.
I'm all for ridiculous headwear every now and then, but I kind of feel like her collar and hat are working at cross purposes. Their silhouettes interfere with each other. A different paint scheme might help, so that the collar is more of a simple backdrop for the hat. But even better IMO would be to bring the collar down so her hat is more prominent and the scrolls are hanging around shoulder height. That's how I'd convert her, at least.
Voss wrote: I'm imagining her neck and back problems. A wimple/hood, a headdress and that huge back thing with the attached scrolls is a bit much.
Everything else is good, but the headwear could stand to be stripped down.
I have seen people with much bigger and heavier headwear in Las Palma's Drag Queen festival and Tenerife's Carnivale.
Were they also about to fight the undead, wherein you'd want as few grabbing hazards as possible?
I believe this is a bit nitpicking when we are speaking about a normally non-combat prophetess. In warhammer. If you want pragmatism to fight undead one should watch Zombieland.
Of course one can find the hat of this woman ugly or exaggerated but thematically I don't find any problem with it.
GaroRobe wrote: "When a vampire can no longer control its feral urges, it can turn into a monstrous Vargskyr."
Isn't that exactly what happens with Varghulfs? Are the latter just being condemned to FEC and Varskyr will be for soulblights?
From what I understand, Varghulfs in AoS aren’t actually vampires now, they’re from the Ghoul lineage. And Vargskyrs are now essentially what Varghulfs were in WHF.
I wouldn't mind first getting some more information about the actual Cursed City game, which is presumably supposed to be interesting in its own right...
Following it, Mannfred’s grin froze. One of his thralls had collapsed slightly off-centre, landing atop one of the binding runes of the circle and smudging it. A small detail, yes, but crucial. Neferata would be howling with laughter, were she ever to learn of it.
After yesterday's preview, am I the only one who thinks they give the boring versions of skeletons and zombies in cursed City and kept the interesting ones to sell them in separate boxes?
We're like halfway done with the weekly character previews?
Fair, I thought since we'd seen the full box contents now they weren't sticking too religiously to those weekly drops. My hype for this is starting to die tbh
After the joke on the livestream, the note in the preview article, and now a how-to paint video, for it not to go on pre-order next weekend would seem a little odd. For it not to go on pre-order within the next two weekends would be downright bizarre.
It certainly feels like it should be up for preorder soon. I am hoping personally a preorder on the 3rd with a release on the 10th. I'm getting a bit antsy to get my hands on it.
Well, the announcement was the 23rd of January, if they're still trying to hold to 'preview no more than 3 months in advance' it should come out in the next 4 weeks or so.
I'm definitely hoping for sooner rather than later.
Danny76 wrote: For some reason April 10th was in my head. But maybe that’s because I’m hoping I can go physically get it on the 12th if so.
That’s.....perhaps not a bad call you know.
It could be a Big Ticket item to get people into stores when they’re allowed to re-open in the UK.
Certainly it’ll help folk qualify for the backlog of collectors coins, too. I’m hitting my local store regardless, as I’m pretty sure they’ve got Grey Seer spray in stock, and I don’t much fancy eBay prices!
So basically there are 4 roles (that are just renamed normal MMO roles) with two heroes in each role and each role has a little, fixed level up track. It's more than BSF got. It does leave room for easy expansion with just adding new level up cards.
With the rules assuming a new major ability at every level it does leave lots of room for easy homebrew stuff, including leveling tracks with choices, maybe something like Kill Team.
Power level also seems pretty high with the elf getting a free move or shoot for each melee kill.
Size: Large
is an outrageously bizarre line of text for an elf girl stat card tho.
I picked the size issue on the novel bonus character yesterday as he is quite slight. Would appear that regular humanoids are Large rather than the Medium I would have expected.
Danny76 wrote: For some reason April 10th was in my head. But maybe that’s because I’m hoping I can go physically get it on the 12th if so.
That’s.....perhaps not a bad call you know.
It could be a Big Ticket item to get people into stores when they’re allowed to re-open in the UK.
Certainly it’ll help folk qualify for the backlog of collectors coins, too. I’m hitting my local store regardless, as I’m pretty sure they’ve got Grey Seer spray in stock, and I don’t much fancy eBay prices!
Yeah well I was thinking I’ll pop in and get two coins worth of stuff (may just be this box alone), just not sure which ones it’d be yet.
I guess we shall see what April is, do we know yet?
I guess May or June will be that Ork one.
Would be nice for an April Vampire based one, but probably not.
What months have we had since Jan? Both free models and coins?
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Would’ve preferred proper character creation/selection like, but at least there’s something to work from now.
GW doesn't want us making our own characters. They want us buying their set optionless miniatures tied to pre-made characters.
This is the reason why I won’t be buying this, or any of the Warhammer Quest Games, despite loving a good dungeon crawl. I mean, if you can’t make your own character then the immersion is just not there for me.
If there are manufacturing issues, then you'll probably see a small first wave, followed by a reprint wave later in the year. It won't be a print & dump release, though.
Indeed. That’s not limited release. It’s just stock issues.
It’ll be around a couple of years roughly.
But also, where did you hear this rumour
We don’t really know what their stock levels for anything is like.
We could make rumour about every upcoming release that there could be a shortage of it. If you know what I mean.
jaredb wrote: Looks like a great box! Probably coming out soon. I just hope that it's not a limited release!
It isn’t.
It’s the new Quest main box.
I hope that's true. I've been hearing rumors it'll be limited due to manufacturing issues.
Seems an unlikely option if they are planning to release expansions over the next few years as they've done with Blackstone Fortress. Limited initial stock though, sure, that's not uncommon now.
This is the reason why I won’t be buying this, or any of the Warhammer Quest Games, despite loving a good dungeon crawl. I mean, if you can’t make your own character then the immersion is just not there for me.
If you didn't get bored already after a few play, it should be pretty easy easy to make your own hero and enemies for this game. There're also load of heroes from Silver Tower and Blackstone fortress that you can use as idea for the special rule.
Undead_Love-Machine wrote: This is the reason why I won’t be buying this, or any of the Warhammer Quest Games, despite loving a good dungeon crawl. I mean, if you can’t make your own character then the immersion is just not there for me.
I'm the opposite. This box gives you so much stuff to use in actual Quest that it's hard to pass up.
Undead_Love-Machine wrote: This is the reason why I won’t be buying this, or any of the Warhammer Quest Games, despite loving a good dungeon crawl. I mean, if you can’t make your own character then the immersion is just not there for me.
I'm the opposite. This box gives you so much stuff to use in actual Quest that it's hard to pass up.
Yeah, I may well pick up a few of the minis on eBay for games of Advanced Heroquest, but I’m not bothered about the game itself.
Sounds like initial stock may be very limited, hopefully it won’t take too long for them to reprint. I can see this being in high demand.
Annoyingly, next Saturday is my first race for 4 months which makes it much trickier to preorder. Looks like I will be walking for a bit whilst frantically refreshing websites at mile 20...
It shouldn't be surprising that the set is not a limited release.
Blackstone Fortress is still available on the GW website right now. Aside from a "temporarily out of stock" listing at one point, it's always been available.
It's the expansions that eventually became hard to find, and subsequently outrageously overpriced in the secondary market. Even still, those expansions were available for quite along time before that.
I honestly don't think a single one of them was difficult to obtain at launch. I would expect this to be similar, especially when the exansions will likely be $60 for 1-2 models like BSF.
That said, I'm all in on this one. I started off getting everything for BSF, including the expansions but sold it all(prior to the massive price jump) when I couldn't get anyone interested and still regret it. Also looking forward to using this set to finally dip my toes into WarCry.
Besides, I have no doubt that the pre-order on next saturday will still have a limited stock that should go away quite fast until the next one. Sure, they will put the box back online later - and then one day it will disappear like Black Fortress.
It's not a core game to GW. It is fated to go away at some point. Like all Warhammer Quest boxes before.
Scalpers will still buy more boxes so that they can sell the separate parts later. And some boxes for when it will cease to be sold by GW.
Starfarer wrote: It shouldn't be surprising that the set is not a limited release.
Blackstone Fortress is still available on the GW website right now. Aside from a "temporarily out of stock" listing at one point, it's always been available.
It's the expansions that eventually became hard to find, and subsequently outrageously overpriced in the secondary market. Even still, those expansions were available for quite along time before that.
I honestly don't think a single one of them was difficult to obtain at launch.
They weren't. But they were outrageously overpriced to begin with (the core game wasn't, particularly). The main reason the expansions lasted so long and didn't sell out because $60 for 1-2 models that didn't really fit into armies didn't strike people as appealing.
Hopefully expansions for Cursed City will be more reasonable both in price and content (but I'm dubious about price). But I do expect different expansions, just based on the map- I expect the 'Gheistgale' to have a ghost boss and spirit minions, and 'the Clot' to have some sort of ghoul expansion. Something from the 'Shadowed Crypt-Halls' as well.
Not sure if this has been answered yet, if if I play this game with 2 players do we still have to control 4 characters like BSF? This is a major turn off for me if the case, it creates more work for both players and is less immersive.
I think people are too optimistic concerning the motives of their favorite miniature company's practices. Those army box releases are limited edition because they want you buying without thinking, and if you miss it, buying it for twice the price in individual unit/tank boxes. They cause you to anchor stupidly expensive prices as being "a steal." Because once you've convinced a consumer to accept their super high prices once, because of FOMO or anything else, they've normalized the behavior and they'll keep doing it. It's not a manufacturing or logistics issue.
Though I wonder if Cursed City will sell quite as well as we're thinking. Yes everyone who would be interested seems REALLY interested, but it's still not 40K. Most GW fans will be passing on it.
frankelee wrote: I think people are too optimistic concerning the motives of their favorite miniature company's practices. Those army box releases are limited edition because they want you buying without thinking, and if you miss it, buying it for twice the price in individual unit/tank boxes. They cause you to anchor stupidly expensive prices as being "a steal." Because once you've convinced a consumer to accept their super high prices once, because of FOMO or anything else, they've normalized the behavior and they'll keep doing it. It's not a manufacturing or logistics issue.
Though I wonder if Cursed City will sell quite as well as we're thinking. Yes everyone who would be interested seems REALLY interested, but it's still not 40K. Most GW fans will be passing on it.
We have a pandemic and people can't spend much money on luxury items as they used to.
Though I wonder if Cursed City will sell quite as well as we're thinking. Yes everyone who would be interested seems REALLY interested, but it's still not 40K. Most GW fans will be passing on it.
This will probably be the most successful of the Quest games dues to its vampire hunting antics alone. Take D&D's Curse of Strahd module and Castle Ravenloft board game, both of which are very successful.
Expansions are coming for this. Basically it’ll be Blackstone for AoS so GW has zero interest in making this limited.
A solo play dungeon crawler with 100% new miniatures ? It’ll sell and I’m confused by those saying no one cares if it’s not 40K : pretty much every U.K. large FLGS has been gauging interest in this and saying they’ll be buying a high number if GW allows. For example , my closest store bought 6 Piety and Pain , they’re hoping to get 40 of this. Another I buy from is looking at 20-30 vs 5 Piety.
For GW it’s an ideal timing as customers can play it regardless of lockdowns etc
Lord Perversor wrote: Some rumors the past week pointed at pre-order today and same price as Pain and piety.
Considering at least they got the pre-order right it's a matter of wait until tomorrow.
I hope so. Not that it's a total steal at that price, but at about 3 bucks a mini with what appears to be an enhanced version of Blackstone Fortress packaged along (and a much better theme in my opinion) I don't think that's terrible value at all. I mean Gloomhaven is what 125 USD? And while that surely is a more comprehensive game with much more play value (despite me thinking mechanically it is boring as hell- but that's a different story), the miniatures in this are MUCH higher quality and more numerous.
We have a pandemic and people can't spend much money on luxury items as they used to.
The pandemic has really hit different groups/regions/industries harder then others. Some have barely felt the effect financially and some are actually doing better then pre-pandemic. While there clearly are lots of people that normally could afford this that cannot, or are being more cautious with their money, there's are people that have no qualms about spending money right now. I don't think they'll have an issue selling through the initial wave.
Pretty sure GW haven’t suffered from the pandemic, given their 6m to November 2020 showed a roughly £40,000,000 increase in takings compared to the same period in 2019.
And despite supply issues (Grey Seer Base, Grey Seer Base, my Kingdom for a Grey Seer Base) there’s no reason to believe the current 6m period will show a like for like drop.
I think expecting Piety & Pain pricing on this is super optimistic. They're asking $170US for a box that is mostly not even new sculpts in P&P. They asked $160 for Pariah Nexus, that wasn't even a complete game.
50+ new models and in the current pricing era, I would be surprised if it is less than $200. Hope for less, but expecting more.
WQCC going for $170 sounds just about right. As I saw the official release trailer it felt like my guess was rising to $180-185 range, but it'll generally be somewhere around there. Price has been talked to death, but it's a standalone box, it won't be priced like a big box expansion.
I'm thrilled for the models in this. I likely won't touch the game at all, just like how I never really played Blackstone Fortress. Instead, I'll pull out the models, slap them together, maybe convert a few for other game systems, and then take the vampires and skeletons and start a Soulblight force with them.
I think we are going to have to prepare for a bit of sticker shock with this one. It has more models than any of the other modern Warhammer Quests including 13 character style sculpts. I think it will be priced to match Indomitus but I wouldn't be terribly surprised if it is a little more.
The pandemic hasn't really impacted most people's luxury purchases negatively. For many in fact, it has had a positive impact because some of the normally quite big expenses (vacations, going out) are gone completely. That leaves quite a bit of money for purchases like games.
I haven’t seen the price list yet but Andy from Blackjack Legacy just posted that it’s £125 and he has early access to the price lists. So that would be €160 $210 (maybe $200?) I believe.
Dolnikan wrote: The pandemic hasn't really impacted most people's luxury purchases negatively. For many in fact, it has had a positive impact because some of the normally quite big expenses (vacations, going out) are gone completely. That leaves quite a bit of money for purchases like games.
It’ll be interesting to see if, or perhaps more accurately, how much of a reduction in sales GW might see.
From a purely person example? Come September, I’m unlikely to be spending much if anything with GW, because I’m off on a weekend away with my Lass. The other months, well who can say?
But on topic, £125 is more than I hoped, less than I feared. Importantly it’s well within this month’s budget. Even more so if I use my existing Element Crystals, which are their take on store credit. Got around £10 saved up. Between that and the assumed 25% discount I can bag it for £83.75, which is a pretty nice price to be playing with.
Well, as expected, it's an okay price if you're used to GW prices and ridiculous if you're not. It's tied with Gloomhaven, a game so good that its sequel got 13 million on Kickstarter, and so big some of my female friends don't want to try to lift it.
Yeah, £125 is only reasonable if you're an exclusive GW guy. It's competing with the very best the industry has to offer at that level, when in all likelihood it's going to be a collection of nice models accompanying a really poor board game.
lord_blackfang wrote: Well, as expected, it's an okay price if you're used to GW prices and ridiculous if you're not. It's tied with Gloomhaven, a game so good that its sequel got 13 million on Kickstarter, and so big some of my female friends don't want to try to lift it.
Gloomhaven has a U.K. RRP of £139.99. It comes with a handful of models, and the enemies so far as I can see are cardboard standee.
So it’s a very different offering from Cursed City, which has a lower RRP, and comes with way more models.
If you’re not into models or not especially fussed? Gloomhaven is a good option. If you’re into your models, Cursed City is a good option.
Me? Cut my teeth on Hero Quest (which I’ll be getting later in the year), so Cursed City has greater appeal to me.
For me 155€ even with discount is a lot for some nice models and a lot of mediocre ones. This also indicates, that the expansions will cost more than the BSF ones.
So lets first see what the second market will provide.
Is this confirmed that it will be around a while like blackstone fortress? Or a more limited run?
I see you can still by the core set of blackstone fortress. I wonder how long it will be around and if there going to have one more print of escalation.
It’s only the expansions which are fairly short term/fixed numbers releases.
Whether GW has learned anything from the “wait.....The Dreaded Ambull is no longer available” stuff remains to be seen.
Even if they give us a set window, and maybe a week “last call, made to order” type thing it would be preferable to it just not being available anymore.
Little bat demon wasn't really shown off before. Probably nothing but an objective (he shows up in artwork on a card), but still kinda cool. There are two others we haven't seen, but one may be the cat
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Sounds like it’s possible to actually lose the campaign if things go poorly enough.
That’s....actually kinda cool!
Anyone here knows Shadows over Camelot? Play together vs the game, and its actually quite easy to feth up and lose.
I hope Cursed City is also hardish and not something where you got mechanics that could make you lose but they never occure so you can ignore them like in some games.
I really don't need this game, I really don't...I have Gloomhaven, I have its sequel on the way, as well as a several other dungeon crawler games.... this would just sit on the shelf un played.... but it sure would look pretty sat there in that sexy box.... and those miniatures ...ahhh FU GW.
So a little bit too pricey! Well $200-210 will tamp down on demand some here in America, so no problem showing up at my store on Saturday morning and just grabbing one off the shelf at least. I already got my proxy standees printed off for it so I can take my time putting together and painting the miniatures.
I'm sad that 3 of 4 mission types still use fixed maps, repeating the same few maps over and over was my biggest gripe with BSF.
It's cool that there's a bit of an XCOM-y strategic overlay where you can decide which type of mission to do based on where you most need to advence your agenda.
I've had updates from a couple of my regular FLGS, and they've both confirmed that their initial stock is going to be very limited. As with most recent releases, I expect this will be a sold-out-in-minutes job on Saturday morning. Unlike some of the other pre-order rushes, this one will come back since we can assume it will be a part of the GW range for the next couple of years or so - but I expect that a good number of the folks who want this are going to have to wait at least a month or two for restocks.
lord_blackfang wrote: I'm sad that 3 of 4 mission types still use fixed maps, repeating the same few maps over and over was my biggest gripe with BSF.
Unlike BSF, the city's layout isn't expected to change. Houses and streets just don't move by themselves.
I guess the Hunt missions are about clearing a particular place of the city. Guess the bosses don't move far from their lairs as well.
And there is clearly a possibility of random exploration with at least one of the type missions. With a quest book of 56 pages, it should give enough fun for a while.
It's still a game with a very specific story and named characters, not the original Warhammer Quest with generic heroes and completely random dungeons.
So far, I like what I see about the game. I'm especially willing to know more about the journey phase and wonder what happens if the journey reaches the night phase...I bet time will be a deadly factor in the game as well.
At £125 it would be the only purchase and certainly would not entertain any expansions, which will no doubt range from £45 to £85 going forwards. Its no big deal though as there is still Raveloft, Frostgrave and AoS:HOTHs to scratch the undead solo-coop itch.
While Cursed City looks good, it might be disappointing for those who just don't fancy hunting vampires or would rather another 40K setting. Learning from the lessons of lockdown, now seems an ideal time to develop a general solo-coop system to complement the main battle and skirmish games( 40K & Kill Team, AOS & Warcry ). Ash from GMG seems to be on to something here...
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: How to Play is pretty cool.
I’d have preferred the usual presenter, because, but this reminds me more of running [an] intro game in-store.
GW presenters often seem wierdly smug to me. But this guy comes across like he's teaching a little kid how to play while waiting for the kid to smell the silent-but-deadly he just let rip.
SamusDrake wrote: Learning from the lessons of lockdown, now seems an ideal time to develop a general solo-coop system to complement the main battle and skirmish games( 40K & Kill Team, AOS & Warcry ).
They already did so with AoS (rules in the White Dwarf, Ash is only adapting them for random dungeon maps). And Warcry has a very solid basis with their special challenge battles in Tome of Champions 2020.
Kill Team...who cares about Kill Team, nowadays ? Just kidding, but well...it's Kill Team, you know ? Like Goonhammer said.
Here, it's a dungeon crawler with a set story and campaign to follow. Sure, you can make your own for free or find other similar games elsewhere, but that's not the point here. It's about Warhammer Quest : Cursed City. That's not Frostgrave, not Mordheim, not AoS, not Warcry. Never intended to be, and never will be. Even if there is clear inspiration from here and there.
Dolnikan wrote: The pandemic hasn't really impacted most people's luxury purchases negatively. For many in fact, it has had a positive impact because some of the normally quite big expenses (vacations, going out) are gone completely. That leaves quite a bit of money for purchases like games.
It’ll be interesting to see if, or perhaps more accurately, how much of a reduction in sales GW might see.
From a purely person example? Come September, I’m unlikely to be spending much if anything with GW, because I’m off on a weekend away with my Lass. The other months, well who can say?
But on topic, £125 is more than I hoped, less than I feared. Importantly it’s well within this month’s budget. Even more so if I use my existing Element Crystals, which are their take on store credit. Got around £10 saved up. Between that and the assumed 25% discount I can bag it for £83.75, which is a pretty nice price to be playing with.
Alot of people who could afford these luxery items in the first place, where likely already in a position where they could work from home.
This pandemic has mostly affected people just scraping buy and independent business owners.
They already did so with AoS (rules in the White Dwarf, Ash is only adapting them for random dungeon maps). And Warcry has a very solid basis with their special challenge battles in Tome of Champions 2020.
Kill Team...who cares about Kill Team, nowadays ? Just kidding, but well...it's Kill Team, you know ? Like Goonhammer said.
Here, it's a dungeon crawler with a set story and campaign to follow. Sure, you can make your own for free or find other similar games elsewhere, but that's not the point here. It's about Warhammer Quest : Cursed City. That's not Frostgrave, not Mordheim, not AoS, not Warcry. Never intended to be, and never will be. Even if there is clear inspiration from here and there.
Heroes of the Hinterlands was a blast and yes, Ash built on that. I tend to ramble on with details and Ash summed it up really well.
Warcry: Tome of Champions has solo-coop games? How did I miss that...? Please tell me more!
Wha...Kill Team...who cares? HOW DARE YOU!!! LOL, yeah its not been handled well beyond the core manual, sad to say...
Yes, Cursed City is its own story and all that jazz - which is fine. I see what you mean. Theres nothing wrong with Cursed City or any of the preceeding games, but if the setting and characters are simply not what one wants to use then they will likely pass on it and "wait for the next bus", which could be another setting and collection of models they still don't have any love for. Warhammer Quest is pretty much GW's sole answer for solo-coop gaming, so, I guess what I'm suggesting is nothing to replace Quest( those games are good in their own right and should carry on ), but merely to add another option which Heroes of the Hinterlands had done so well. Its a shame that its a one-off in a issue of White Dwarf and not a more developed companion for AoS.
On that tangent, anyone hungry for solo play should really, really check Perilous Tales by Planet Smasher Games (Gaslands, A Billion Suns). Free download pulp horror investigation. I think it even has rules for almost all enemy models in Cursed City
Warcry: Tome of Champions has solo-coop games? How did I miss that...? Please tell me more!
They are "hidden" in the Challenge Battles just before the new minor artifacts tables, and the battles themselves are initially meant to be a 2 players cooperative scenario with the enemies being handled by a behaviour mechanism like they did for AoS, but it's very easy to make them work solo. Simply cut in half the points allowed for enemies and here you go ! Maybe it won't be that easy alone, especially against the Mega-Gargant / Lord of Change Challenge Battles, but they're called challenges for a reason, right ?
I'm thinking about making a whole solo campaign based on this wild fighters mechanism and the Soroth Kor campaign with the champion rules for building your warband. The core is very solid IMHO and needs little adaptation...and I don't need to learn a(nother) new game system like Perilous Tales.
To me, Warhammer Quest : Cursed City is one entirely different thing. It's not about building your warband and see how far (well) it fares, it's a good old adventuring party trying to save the day (city) from Evil Undeads. I'm expecting mechanisms like in Black Fortress where characters can die for good and not being used again for the rest of the campaign...and not being replaced that easily as in Warcry.
It's not just a coop / solo game. If that's just what you're looking for, of course there are plenty other cheaper choices. But they won't be Cursed City experience, they will be entirely different.
lord_blackfang wrote: . I think it even has rules for almost all enemy models in Cursed City
If I'm buying the Cursed City box to have the miniature, I already have a game fully meant to use them inside already. Why bother taking other rules and not even use all the cards and token you still paid the box for ?
lord_blackfang wrote: Can heroes in BSF die die? Isn't there always that chance to go fish for a crit success on a d20 in the resurrection room?
There are indeed ways to make them come back, but the thing is : it's not for free and never guaranteed...and once you lost all heroes, you lost the campaign.
It's still something very annoying to have a hero die in BSF. In Warcry ? You just replace it for free...or pay a few glory points in "hardcore" champion mode. Not as big a deal for sure.
I really hope death means something in Cursed City. Makes the campaign much more interesting !
Skipping this, £125 is too much for me considering I mainly just like some of the models. Even if i liked all of them it's still too expensive i think.
They are "hidden" in the Challenge Battles just before the new minor artifacts tables, and the battles themselves are initially meant to be a 2 players cooperative scenario with the enemies being handled by a behaviour mechanism like they did for AoS, but it's very easy to make them work solo. Simply cut in half the points allowed for enemies and here you go ! Maybe it won't be that easy alone, especially against the Mega-Gargant / Lord of Change Challenge Battles, but they're called challenges for a reason, right ?
I'm thinking about making a whole solo campaign based on this wild fighters mechanism and the Soroth Kor campaign with the champion rules for building your warband. The core is very solid IMHO and needs little adaptation...and I don't need to learn a(nother) new game system like Perilous Tales.
To me, Warhammer Quest : Cursed City is one entirely different thing. It's not about building your warband and see how far (well) it fares, it's a good old adventuring party trying to save the day (city) from Evil Undeads. I'm expecting mechanisms like in Black Fortress where characters can die for good and not being used again for the rest of the campaign...and not being replaced that easily as in Warcry.
It's not just a coop / solo game. If that's just what you're looking for, of course there are plenty other cheaper choices. But they won't be Cursed City experience, they will be entirely different.
Intreguing. I shall keep that in mind if I jump into Warcry.
We seem to be on the same page about Warhammer Quest, so I'll leave it there.
I really hope death means something in Cursed City. Makes the campaign much more interesting !
Well, they do at least have a "What a horrible night to have a curse" thing going on. It would be pretty cool if a fallen adventurer rises as a zombie, or a Vampire? Maybe a werewolf! Can you image that big Ogre dude turning into a giant Lon Chaney Jr? OMG that would be awesome!
lord_blackfang wrote: It's like the point of Warcry: Catacombs was to raise our price tolerance
It certainly seems that way.
Can't speak for others but I've certainly reached my limit with the prices increases. Someone has to say it - this is £30 more than Blackstone Fortress. Nuff said.
Haha, no. For the same price I can get Defiance KS box from my LGS, and it might come with fewer models, but it comes with more boardgame in it.
For what has always been babby's 1st dungeon crawler this is just enough to not make it appealing.
Thank you to GW pricing for making my KS miniature boardgame addiction look downright reasonable.
For that price I can get a KS pledge with at least the same number of "100% match my preferences/style" killer sculpts, plus a whole bucket of cool but not killer miniatures PLUS a good game to use them in.
I'd buy it if I was 100% on a higher share of the miniatures. But most of the heroes are either snoozers or losers, the skeletons will be released separately, and there aren't enough big winners otherwise.
Plus the weird nighttime outside but daytime inside tiles bug me to no end.
For those in the states who haven't cross referenced pounds to dollar-o's, that's looking like the same price they charged for Warcry Catacombs: $210 USD.
Totally worth it for the terrain wearing zombies alone.
Price is pretty much what I was expecting. It is more expensive than Blackstone Fortress but here we have an extra 9 enemy miniatures plus 10 objective miniatures (there is one less hero miniature compared to Blackstone but the size of the Ogre makes up for that in my opinion).
The game also looks to be better developed than Blackstone with hero levelling and what appears to be a better range of missions. I also like these tiles a lot more than the Blackstone ones.
The way I see is that this box contains 2 start collecting sets- vampire boss and body guard, necromancer, skeleton hero, 10 Skeletons and 6 rats swarms in one set. Zombie gardener, vampire trio, big monster, 10 zombies and 6 bat swarms in the other set. If we charge the old £50 price for the sc boxes, £3 each for the heroes and £1 left over for the rules, tiles, cards, dice and objective markers. That sounds ok for me.
A big advantage of this box is that the enemies are in standard AoS unit sizes. Bulk out the skeleton and zombie units, add a unit or two of blood Knights and you've pretty much got a soulblight army. Silver tower had a lot of cool minis but due to the random unit sizes only the heroes were useable in the main game.
It is slightly worrying that this will be the new normal price for gw boxes but unlike warcry catacombs, I feel like I'm getting reasonable value for money here.
How worrying is it really? GW has a pricing strategy they have been transparent about, and every time the price goes up people act like it’s a shock. New pricing goes up. That’s all she wrote. Too expensive? Exercise some restraint and take a pass. Sure it sucks. But so do many more important things. At least you have a choice here, even if that choice isn’t super appealing because it’s a pastime we enjoy.
The only thing that doesn't work for me (and is the same for many similar games) is the 3D nature of the models on 2D terrain. It just doesn't work for me at all. I'd need to pick up some scenery just to place between the boards to give it some depth.
Looking at this as Start Collectiong Box for AoS and it is a deal, specially with 15% off
As a Standalone game, with no 3D terrain and the gameplay looking like an easy walkthru with hardly a chance to fail (so made for a much younger audiance) it is way too expensive for wht you get
Nice looking minis are a thing, but if you don't play them it is a waste of money which makes it a good box for all of those who want to use them in another game, but a bad one as a boxed game compared what else is out there
Nice looking minis are a thing, but if you don't play them it is a waste of money which makes it a good box for all of those who want to use them in another game, but a bad one as a boxed game compared what else is out there
It's actually good for those who intend to use it for both of these purposes - especially when the other games are GW games.
Anyway, if people are not interested / have already a dungeon crawler solo game that they deem superior, good for them - just don't buy Cursed City. Who cares, if not only you ? Just means you were not part of their target market.
But yeah, it's expensive as a boardgame - and yet the comparison is exactly the same than all previous GW "boardgames" : it has GW miniatures inside. Honestly, what did you expect at this point ? It's good to have expectations, just keep them reasonnable.
Besides, when I see CMON's prices for their boardgames now (sorry, I meant Kickstarters)...well, everything is relative, as usual. And the "reasonnable cheap" boardgames usually don't have the same quality at all about their game pieces (in the bad way, mind you !).
If looking for a cheap boardgame is all that matters to you, it's obvious GW is NOT what you are looking for.
Sarouan wrote: Honestly, what did you expect at this point ? It's good to have expectations, just keep them reasonnable.
That GW at least for such a theme get over the "pretending to make a game and adding stuff to throw directly into the bin to sell some models that don't fit into the current armies" and make it something worth playing more than once
and with some people already getting hyped that this will be the new Mortheim, I hoped that GW might go into that direction
Anyway, if you're not interested / have already a dungeon crawler solo game that you deem superior, good for you - just don't buy Cursed City. Who cares, if not only you ?
if you like the game and want to buy it, good for you but who cars
and for a good Boardgame, rules/gameplay is more important than nice minis (played Legenden of Anor a lot and no one cares about the paper minis but the challenging coop gameplay keeps you going)
and it is not about being cheap but what you get for your money and what the it is advertised
CC advertising as "game" for a premium price instead of "cheap models for AoS" is a little disapointing
To be fair Blackstone Fortress wasn’t a terrible game, though it was hardly remarkable. I play a lot of board games and BSF was pretty middle of the road as far as dungeon crawlers go. This looks to be a marked improvement over BSF (getting rid of of those stupid random maps that are repeated and a lot more involved rules). I still don’t think it will be a great game even with all the improvements.
But if it is a decent game with a bunch of great minis that I want I am still going to pick it up. To be interested in this your really have to be someone who is into the minis.
This isn’t targeted at board gamers. The price, combined with miniatures that require assembly is alone enough to scare away most of them. Not to mention there are plenty of Dungeon Crawlers out there that are much better games for less money.
bullyboy wrote: The only thing that doesn't work for me (and is the same for many similar games) is the 3D nature of the models on 2D terrain. It just doesn't work for me at all. I'd need to pick up some scenery just to place between the boards to give it some depth.
I think I am going to paint spare Azyrite Ruins and Warcry scenery to use as wall sections or backdrops for photography. I didn't like when original Warcry scenery was shoehorned into Catacombs to bump up the price, at least I now have good use for them
Sarouan wrote: Honestly, what did you expect at this point ? It's good to have expectations, just keep them reasonnable.
That GW at least for such a theme get over the "pretending to make a game and adding stuff to throw directly into the bin to sell some models that don't fit into the current armies" and make it something worth playing more than once
and with some people already getting hyped that this will be the new Mortheim, I hoped that GW might go into that direction
....
and for a good Boardgame, rules/gameplay is more important than nice minis (played Legenden of Anor a lot and no one cares about the paper minis but the challenging coop gameplay keeps you going)
No, I was talking about the price and the way GW designs their games / expansions nowadays. Even if they did release a new version of Mordheim, you know the days where they put everything in a single book are in the past. See what they did with the new version of Necromunda. See what they did with the new version of Blood Bowl. You have the facts already. It's good to dream, but like I said : better be reasonnable with your expectations.
You know how GW works now. They won't just come back at what they did before. It's useless to moan about it now, they won't change their ways just because of you.
And they're not "pretending to make a game" - they made a game that is Cursed City. That you think it's not worth your time is perfectly understandable - but a game is just that : a game. It doesn't have to be complex, realist or have perfect rules. And players who like it aren't stupid to enjoy a game for what it is. After all, people still play Monopoly nowadays, despite its...let's say simple rules, shall we ?
The other purpose of this box is to release new Soulblight Gravelord miniatures in advance of the singles boxes sold later (thanks to the previews, we knows zombies and skeletons are being redone effectively and that they look like the ones in Cursed City - also new bat swarms). Which is why I believe scalpers have an interest in this to sell the separate parts at a price that will still be interesting once the single boxes will be available.
and it is not about being cheap but what you get for your money and what the it is advertised
CC advertising as "game" for a premium price instead of "cheap models for AoS" is a little disapointing
It's advertising a game with new GW miniatures. That's what you get for your money. You know very well at what price GW miniatures are sold currently, don't you ? Of course you do.
Price is not related to a game's quality. See CMON's kickstarters where people are begging to throw money at their face just by reading the name "CMON", even if they have nothing really indicating the game is actually good. "But the miniatures are so good / it has so much value !". It's just the brand. Just like Mantic Games is a brand for cheap miniatures (well...it's slowly changing but it's still changing for them on that matter ).
Sabotage! wrote:
This isn’t targeted at board gamers. The price, combined with miniatures that require assembly is alone enough to scare away most of them. Not to mention there are plenty of Dungeon Crawlers out there that are much better games for less money.
GW boardgames are never targeted at board gamers in general. Only people who would be interested in the Hobby (TM) - building, painting, collecting and playing with GW miniatures. Their purpose is to broaden the variety of their games so that they can find and attract more of these people.
Poor people who want games ready with no work on the miniatures ? They're not the target. Never will be.
Purpose of GW is to make money, yes, but nowadays, you don't need as many people as you can in the world. You just need a strong core fanbase who have enough money and who will be happy to throw that money at you. People who have no money won't give what they don't have, and will never make your sale numbers grow up the way you want. Better to find and focus on the "whales" (aka people who are ready to spend a huge load of money on a regular basis) and use marketing / hype /psychological tricks like FOMO to make sure they keep spending on a regular basis. That's the sad truth of the game industry in general now.
Cronch wrote: Why the hell are you defending a corporation, they have lawyers and community team for that.
I don't think an explanation, especially one that accuses the corporation of using stuff like psychological tricks, can really be called defending
Going to have to agree with Blackfang on this one. It seemed to me like a pretty reasonable explanation, and definitely wasn’t flattering (not to say it isn’t correct though). I think it would be hard to find a lot of people that think the GW model is good, regardless of whether or not they like their products.
£125 isn't too bad with discount retailers, but I may hold off on the box for a while as I don't want a repeat of Blackstone Fortress where I got the base game and couldn't get the expansions when I finally could afford to do so.
I am itching to paint some of these minis though, so picking up the odd model on eBay seems fine.
Cronch wrote: Why the hell are you defending a corporation, they have lawyers and community team for that.
To me that didn't read as a defence of GW, more as speculation about GW's thinking. Sarouan just shrugs their shoulders about GW's behaviour, 'it is what it is', and it should be accepted because it is reality.
This of course leaves out everybody who'd really like to get their hands on overpriced GW products but cannot justify the expense, for whatever reason. Sure there's more important stuff in life, but that does not invalidate criticism of GW's prices or a discussion of where the focus of a miniature boardgame should be (models, rules, story).
Me? I'm getting Cursed City, from an independent retailer. I like Warhammer Quest for old time's sake (own the original with expansions) and I like most of the models. So maybe I am a whale, but a small one - a porpoise?
The limited release stock is an interesting twist. Just six months ago my local store was flush with copies of Blood Bowl 2nd Season, now they're getting just a handful of Cursed City boxes? I wonder just what percentage of copies they are retaining for themselves, and how much money one will be able to flip it on eBay for. That might be a helpful way to make it more affordable for people, just sell the first one you get for 150% of what you paid, then buy the second one effectively half off.
I aknowledge I'm a GW fanboy and I happily throw my money at their face on a regular basis. I like their miniatures, can't help it. Their games too, my soul be damned ! So I know I'm certainly part of their target market. Doesn't mean I like it when they use FOMO nor sell it at a high price but well...I can understand why they're doing it.
Simply put, it just works. I'm even stupid enough to play a mobile game with microtransactions and fell into them as well. Spending money for a virtual gambling loot box, could you just imagine the madness ? Yet it works. Psychological tricks are damn efficient.
I'm weak, I know, but indeed, that's how it is. Things can change, sure, but I'm too old to change myself alas...maybe there's still hope for you, young ones.
That apart, I still like Cursed City as far as they showed the rules. BSF is indeed not the game of the year, but it was doing a good job for the atmosphere and the campaign. Since I always had difficulties to immerse myself in a SF dungeon crawler (I'm maybe old school, it always felt weird to me to do a "dungeon like" adventure when you have weapons like laser guns and scanners), I'm more than happy to try the experience in a good old fantasy setting.
Did anybody notice? Jelsen is ‚large‘, Ulfenwatch are ‚small‘. But they look about the same size. That is kind of strange...
If it's like BSF, which it's almost guaranteed to be, then this only really defines how many miniatures can go in or move through each hex. 3 Small, 2 Large, 1 Huge, or similar. You could only move through a hex that wasn't "full"
I'm pretty sure that was the only game impact, so it lets Skeletons "swarm" a bit, especially when there's 3 or 4 hexes full of them, but the Heroes and Large "Baddies" are more limited.
So limited numbers and expected high end price, no surprises there.
The majority of people will probably buy one after the 1st wave is sold out after the first 5 seconds.
Value is relative, even if your just a painter theres plenty of painting hours in this box set, if your a gamer the game lasts for how long you want it to and if your both even better.
I do understand that once the £100 barrier is crossed you start to think more carefully and compare with similar products but Im going to be honest here the biggest competition to this box set is going to be the vampire release IMO not other companies boardgames.
Personally speaking cannot justify another box now when I have thousands of minis unpainted closed in other sets. Will wait for 2nd waves and vampires releases and then make a call this summer if its a pass or must have.
I guess that makes sense, When I read it I just assumed it was similar to d&d where you can't really grapple things more than 1 size larger than you and they simply "sized up" all the heroes so they wouldn't get bogged down by chaff enemies.
I never played BSF though so I don't even know if grappling is a mechanic in the game.
Dw, it made a nice change from the price grump / price white knighting loop. I say this as a proud price grump myself. It's still nice to mix it up a bit
Chopstick wrote: So the Elf archer was designed to kill skelington while Jelsen was designed to kill bosses and big guys. Oof.
I'm missing context.
The witch hunter who is leading the expedition and specialized in killing vampires is... good at killing vampire bosses, and that's... bad?
