One thing to bear in mind (pricing aside), is that boardgamers don't *want* lots of terrain and model they have to put together. The fact that BSF models were on sprues was listed as a negative in a few reviewes of the game I checked out. Packing the game with 100+ models only makes sense for wargamers.

I'd guess, purely guess, it'll be around £150 RRP. GW's been doing better than ever despite price hikes and this is a very hyped up release. Catacombs was £125 and this presumably has a fair bit more to it, outside terrain and will be a more popular release, plus GW might bank on the solo/cooperative nature of it helping sell it when lockdowns are still going on.

I wouldn’t think they’d go more than a £15 increase on BSF


Automatically Appended Next Post:
They want it to appeal to the same people. Not just us “in the hobby”

Let's not pretend a box with 50 miniatures on sprue is for anyone not in the hobby.

A lot of people "in the hobby" do not touch the game the miniature come from, because they're too lazy to learn the rule, or too lazy to learn a new set of rule other than their 40k/aos game (which is in its current state : an oversimplified game)

Don't worry fam, GW to the rescue, rules are so simple now we don't even need number on dice, roll dice, see blank = miss, see symbol= hit. WOW! game's so simple now you can even teach illiterate people to play

Danny76 wrote:
I wouldn’t think they’d go more than a £15 increase on BSF


Automatically Appended Next Post:
They want it to appeal to the same people. Not just us “in the hobby”

Yeah, people shouldn't use outliers and unrelated things to assume future trends. Sure Dark Uprising and Catacombs both cost a lot of money, but they represent less than 1% of the SKUs GW has put out in the last two years. Plus they aren't analogous product releases to Warhammer Quest. So why cherry pick them? I think people's brains latch onto the most extreme examples ("this product cost $300!" "this product sold out within 1 minute of pre-order release!") and so then use them when predicting the future, such that it begins to feel like every time GW has a new product coming out with too little info, people claim it will cost double expected price and sell out within 10 seconds to never be seen again, even though this has been true of less than 1% of releases.

Also remember why GW brought back these games after Tom Kirby got sacked... so they could sell them to the wide market of veteran tabletop gamers who aren't going to buy a 40K or fantasy army. They weren't getting any of that money under the foolish, sales-illiterate assumption that they would just be competing with themselves since all gamers spent all their money with them anyway, NAY, a smaller game would just give consumers the excuse to buy less and hoard their money for things like medicine and retirement. It's really staggering how long it took to fire Kirby.

Of course this game is going to cost in-line with other Warhammer Quest releases, and of course they're going to print enough copies for everybody. Actually, my just now made up rumor is that those skeletons we saw are going to be a new AoS unit (much like Shadows Over Hammerhal did with existing units, but now not-existing-units), and by buying this game you're going to get a tiny undead army. Because that's really the goal, string along people who aren't buying 40K armies like it's going out of style, and maybe get them to purchase a few extras, or even get into an army scale game.

Chopstick wrote:
A lot of people "in the hobby" do not touch the game the miniature come from, because they're too lazy to learn the rule, or too lazy to learn a new set of rule other than their 40k/aos game (which is in its current state : an oversimplified game)

Don't worry fam, GW to the rescue, rules are so simple now we don't even need number on dice, roll dice, see blank = miss, see symbol= hit. WOW! game's so simple now you can even teach illiterate people to play

or young children, or those wanting play a few rounds of a quick game, or those being introduced to gaming.

Not everyone wants complicated rules or to build models and even if they do - sometimes they enjoy the difference play style.

 frankelee wrote:

Yeah, people shouldn't use outliers and unrelated things to assume future trends. Sure Dark Uprising and Catacombs both cost a lot of money, but they represent less than 1% of the SKUs GW has put out in the last two years.

And every SKU GW put out in the past two years cost more than previous comparable product.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 frankelee wrote:

Yeah, people shouldn't use outliers and unrelated things to assume future trends. Sure Dark Uprising and Catacombs both cost a lot of money, but they represent less than 1% of the SKUs GW has put out in the last two years.

And every SKU GW put out in the past two years cost more than previous comparable product.

Which is why I wouldn't demand the arrest and trial of anyone who suggested this game might cost $160. Because that would be a claim that made sense, was backed up by evidence, and followed actual pre-established patterns of behavior.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 frankelee wrote:

Yeah, people shouldn't use outliers and unrelated things to assume future trends. Sure Dark Uprising and Catacombs both cost a lot of money, but they represent less than 1% of the SKUs GW has put out in the last two years.

And every SKU GW put out in the past two years cost more than previous comparable product.

Yeah but for a product to literally double in price between iterations is unheard of. If the new box is $200 I will be unhappy but not entirely surprised. More than that would be very surprising. Indomitus had a 30% price increase compared to dark Imperium which is pretty substantial but it also had 20% more models.

Based on that, the only way I see this box costing $300 is if it has 80 or so minis or a bunch of plastic terrain.

It could also have a big roleplay book like the original game. That would tempt a lot of the older fans.

Hey I'm saying it'll be super expensive. I'm not saying it won't be packed with so much stuff a lot of people will feel it's worth it.

If they raise the price at least make each heroes their own sprues like in silver tower. The problem with GW and price hike is that they cut cost, shoving everyone into a tiny sprue, but still increase price.

Can't say that bothers me particularly. The modern trend of having to glue together, for example, two halves of a bloody *shoulder pad* as part of assembly but having the torso and legs be moulded together so you can't repose them easily etc, that is a problem to me

Billicus wrote:
The modern trend of having to glue together, for example, two halves of a bloody *shoulder pad* as part of assembly but having the torso and legs be moulded together so you can't repose them easily etc, that is a problem to me

I'm OK with that. We end up with much more dynamic poses, and much more amazing detail, than would be possible with the more old-fashioned approach of separate arms etc. Admittedly the latter makes conversions easier. But GW will generally use the former for characters and easy-to-build kits and the latter for the more standard box set, so you end up with a mixture in a bigger army anyway.

I thought that, but have you built any modern GW troops - they can really only be built one way now just like the characters. It's fine if you want one squad that, while "dynamic" (read: jumping off rocks), are identical to all your other squads and everyone else's squads. I don't want that. It's horrible for building armies.

I'd also like to add, that aside from the lack of pose options and monopose sculpts, the gap filling needed has only increased due to where the minis join for assembly.

With the old metal models or finecast I'd say sure, but these days you would think they would get that right considering what the cost will be of this set. If I can buy a scale model kit with minimal gap filling these days for a reasonable price, GW should be following suit.

Chopstick wrote:
If they raise the price at least make each heroes their own sprues like in silver tower. The problem with GW and price hike is that they cut cost, shoving everyone into a tiny sprue, but still increase price.

It'll be interesting to see what they do with that, as I think all the heroes on individual sprues would be a pretty good indicator they will be following up with some kind of a wider AoS release. Which in terms of the the witch hunter could have very big implications...

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Let's not pretend a box with 50 miniatures on sprue is for anyone not in the hobby.

They're partly for people "not yet" in the hobby.

The hobby boardgame market is huge, WH:Q and Underworlds are both purposefully aimed at that sector. If you look at when BSF and the other quest games came out on YouTube, you'll see reviews on there from people who don't do any wargaming stuff. A lot of that is because GW sent them the game to review. The models are push fit and you just need clippers or a craft knife to get them out the sprue, push them together and you can start playing. Anathema to you or I, but sort of the point, people start playing and go "these look really amazing painted on the box", look up tutorials online (helpfully provided by GW, using GW paints) and they start buying in.

Likewise I've seen hobby games shops that don't do wargaming (just board games and Magic) that have stocked the WH:Q range.

It's still a *lot* of work for a boardgame. Not to mention GW pushfits are more like push"fits"...

I will say, GWs gotten a lot better about making the model sprues easier for newbs over the last few years. Underworlds models come together very quickly, Silver Tower models were more like putting together their regular units.

I think there's a big range of people in the overall tabletop hobby, and also within the miniature gamer hobby, and we tend to forget this and view it as this binary thing. I think most customers of this game will be people who bought a GW product before, but it lets them sell to people who aren't making 40K or AoS their lifestyle game (in addition to those who have). And then it also allows them to potentially get a swathe of gamers who have different levels of experience (from total beginner, to long-time veteran who just never bothered with GW). One can imagine plenty of gamers who enjoyed Gloomhaven, and know GW is a luxury option with prices to match, seeing the hype around Cursed City and picking it up to try.

Of course that scenario does fit more with not including terrain and not pricing it too high.

Cronch wrote:
It's still a *lot* of work for a boardgame. Not to mention GW pushfits are more like push"fits"...

It is. But its a fairly successful model for boardgames that intersects only lightly with RPGs and miniature wargames.

Is it? Most boardgames I can think of come with pre-assembled models if they have any at all. And they rarely come with ~50 models to boot. Something with that many models is aimed at wargamers that want to play something less involved, not boardgamers imo.

Most boardgames come with absolutely no models at all. 95% of boardgamers don't get any more fancy than your average Monopoly metal meeple or Ticket to Ride plastic trains.

But of the tiny minority even within the niche of boardgames, there is some room for cross over with miniatures/rpg hobbies and a sliding gradiant of games that cater to them, from simple single-piece Zombicide stuff over semi-complex GW push-fits to the ultra-fiddly Kingdom Death-style stuff where you have to glue on 53 different 2 millimeter "fingers" to a single model at impossible angles.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Most boardgames come with absolutely no models at all. 95% of boardgamers don't get any more fancy than your average Monopoly metal meeple or Ticket to Ride plastic trains.

But of the tiny minority even within the niche of boardgames, there is some room for cross over with miniatures/rpg hobbies and a sliding gradiant of games that cater to them, from simple single-piece Zombicide stuff over semi-complex GW push-fits to the ultra-fiddly Kingdom Death-style stuff where you have to glue on 53 different 2 millimeter "fingers" to a single model at impossible angles.

Monopoly doesn’t use Meeples does it? Or not the last time I saw it. Just the dog and shoe and all that rubbish.

But yeah, most board games are not miniature heavy, if at all.

I guess if you take the subsection of board games where you have a single playing piece that you move representing you it goes up.
But Betrayal and stuff like that are just cardboard standees.

Cronch wrote:
One thing to bear in mind (pricing aside), is that boardgamers don't *want* lots of terrain and model they have to put together. The fact that BSF models were on sprues was listed as a negative in a few reviewes of the game I checked out. Packing the game with 100+ models only makes sense for wargamers.

I remember when Shadows of Brimstone came out on kickstarter and a lot of the backers were so unhappy at getting miniatures to assemble they had to put videos in the kickstarter page if how to assemble them! Even had people complaining on the YouTube assembly videos!

Which makes sense, if you're into boardgaming and not scale/game modelling, it just feels like the company made you put together the contents of the game. Functionally no different than getting a box with crayons and cardboard and manual on how to draw your own tokens.

Bubbatron wrote:

Cronch wrote:
One thing to bear in mind (pricing aside), is that boardgamers don't *want* lots of terrain and model they have to put together. The fact that BSF models were on sprues was listed as a negative in a few reviewes of the game I checked out. Packing the game with 100+ models only makes sense for wargamers.

I remember when Shadows of Brimstone came out on kickstarter and a lot of the backers were so unhappy at getting miniatures to assemble they had to put videos in the kickstarter page if how to assemble them! Even had people complaining on the YouTube assembly videos!

I can sympathize, especially since people outside the hobby are probably unaware that models come unpainted and unassembled, without clippers, paint, glue, and basing materials. Heck, I bet there are plenty of people who have purchased a GW product without realizing what they were getting. What were the miniatures like in Shadows of Brimstone? Where they like a full multipart kit, with a ton of random bits and stuff? The one good thing about Quest (I assume) is that the models are all easy to build, and the heroes and villains will probably be different colored plastics. Sure, they won't look as nice unpainted, but for casual/Non-GW players, all you ultimately need is clippers and glue.

Billicus wrote:
I thought that, but have you built any modern GW troops - they can really only be built one way now just like the characters. It's fine if you want one squad that, while "dynamic" (read: jumping off rocks), are identical to all your other squads and everyone else's squads. I don't want that. It's horrible for building armies.

So true. We are back in 1997 but with plastic models to cut up and convert because it is easier to change these poses by building the models and then cutting them up like we did with metals.

My guess is 170 euros.

I don't think they'd actually stated in the original Brimstone kickstarter it would be in hard plastic, but there was certainly a lot of moaning and gnashing of teeth.

Most figures were anywhere from two to five pieces, with a few being single piece across both original starter boxes. No real pose options either. Parts were quite simple to glue together as well, if you'd had any experience putting figures together.

Some of the Brimstone expansions started offering up multipart optional kits- the ninja clan immediately spring to mind, as well as the drones for the flesh harvesters. The nomad guys from the blasted wastes had optional weapon loadouts I believe as well.

Perhaps I should finish up my minecart five years later? I still probably won't be done building and painting content from it before the new Quest drops...

Yeah boardgamers don't mind their 1 piece miniatures look like gingerbread man with detail all messed up and bent weapons.

Most boardgamers willing to build stuff like Kingdom Death can assemble a GW miniature asleep and with one arm tied behind their back.

And most boardgamers aren't willing to buy, let alone build, stuff like Kingdom Death. It's a niche product for a small audience willing to part ways with a lot of cash.

KD is in the same catergory of "A portion of people who buy this never touch the game" like GW product. At least the game itself got effort put into it and have customization.

Brimstone and Zombicide are also a niche within a niche (and probably never get played by 80% of people that did kickstart it) of the general Risk and Ticket to Ride boardgame-scene. 99% of boardgamers wouldn't touch stuff like Zombicide, whether the minis are one-piece or 50.

But those niche-niche-niche things, including the Kingdom Death niche and the GW-boxed game and the Zombicide niche are still worth a lot of money.

There's value in targeting your niche, over competing with the games that have the broadest possible appeal, especially if you can charge a premium for it / from the people in that niche.

The target market here is people who enjoy building and playing with their miniatures.

It's not boardgamers in general. Just the part that enjoys that.

GW just tries to touch as many people as they can, and find the "rare jewels" fitting to be their customers. It was always about that, from the very beginning.

So moaning about boardgamers in general not being interested in GW's Hobby and "being lost" by this release is irrelevant. It was never the purpose of such a product to touch them.

Chopstick wrote:
Yeah boardgamers don't mind their 1 piece miniatures look like gingerbread man with detail all messed up and bent weapons.

I disagree entirely.

First, that’s an awfully broad brush your wielding there. Whilst I’m sure it’ll be true of some, I’d like to take you back in time, to around 1989. And the release of Hero Quest.

That was the game that got me hooked, and saw untold thousands of my money pumped into GW. And what first grabbed me about it?

1. The Advert. The telly advert was pretty awesome.
2. The models shown off. They were unlike anything tiny Grotsnik had really seen before.

Now, at that age my main sources of entertainment was TV, toys, and boardgames of a traditional stripe. Hero Quest combined toys and a board game. They made a solid game a visual feast for the eyes, even though I never really painted the models.

Sure, all but the Gargoyle and furniture were one piece models. But having built Airfix kits by that age (9, forgot to mention that before) had the models been multi-part, I very much doubt I’d have been put off.

There’s a difference between “I can play this game with meeples” and “if it has anything more complex than meeples, I’m not interested”. And it’s a pretty vast one. I’d even venture that it’s barely a consideration for most, provided the models are push fit jobs, which is GW’s preference. All the kits for BSF were push fit. No overly tricky parts, no glue required. Yes some are fairly delicate, but nothing a careful hand can’t overcome.

So overall, they’re pretty accessible, and that’s likely by design rather than accident. For a modicum of effort, you get an objectively more visually pleasing gaming experience.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/02/11/claim-bloody-vengeance-as-a-rebel-kurnothi-in-warhammer-quest-cursed-city/


Qulathis The Exile

So she's Kurnothi.

Interestingly enough, no hooves!

Best tactical rock leap EVA!

She looks good, almost harks back to the old WE characters (the waywatcher).

Yes sir, I like it!

What is this normal wood elf doing in AoS, made a wrong turn at Albuquerque?

Rock and leapy pose, well, I guess those were compulsory being an Elven character and all... *sigh* At least her hair is of a non-dragging-across-the-floor length!

And pose aside, loving the model. Glad to see it's not a beastmen-esque Elf like the other Kurnothi, but just an Elven adventurer with some Asrai-y elements.

Yet another nice model for the game; looking better every day.

Of course, any fan of Nottingham based thrash metal will be referring to her as Qualcast Mutilator.

Pretty inoffensive, isn't she? No hybrid animal features, no mountain of hair that crushes her under its weight. just a normal wood elf with bow. It could be a really nice model if the tactical rock wasn't there.

Also, horny elven maiden. Because Warhammer elves need a silly headdress. But... strangely subdued, too.

If only the sculptor had been able to exercise that little bit of extra restraint and put her flat on the base. Oh well, easy enough fix for that, I guess.

Something noteworthy from the main page:

Meet the Kurnothi hunter so eager for vampire-murder that she’s been exiled by her people.

I'm starting to see a pattern here. GW's really going for the antisocial murderhobo mob with the heroes, aren't they?

I'm not sure its a head dress on her, it looks like that may be actual antlers. If not, then it is the most understated tiara in GW history.

Decent model. No weird hybrid thing. Believable hair. Actual functional weapon. Clothing that makes sense.

Does this model bore AOS fans? I would guess yes, but that is fine. Different tastes for different people and all that.

Don't really understand why people get so mad about a rock sculpted on a base, as if clippers aren't a thing.

Nice model.... Last weeks Ulfenwatch article mentions taking a look at more “models” from cursed city. A second update later today maybe?

warl0rdb0b wrote:
I'm not sure its a head dress on her, it looks like that may be actual antlers. If not, then it is the most understated tiara in GW history.

They definitely do appear to be actual antlers.

The Kurnothi have had some callbacks to some of the lore established about Kurnoth from older Wood Elf books and the Orion trilogy. Between the centaur, the satyrs, and now this huntress we might be seeing a breakdown of what a faction could actually look like.

 Nazrak wrote:
Don't really understand why people get so mad about a rock sculpted on a base, as if clippers aren't a thing.

It affects the pose of the model as well. Given the steep angle of the rock, this would be quite silly if you just clipped her off and glued her flat to the base. On others (like the surfing vampire), the feet create an uneven stance that requires a hand made rock to even out, even if you clip them off the plastic rock.

Geifer wrote:I'm starting to see a pattern here. GW's really going for the antisocial murderhobo mob with the heroes, aren't they?

Modern heroes can't be heroes if they aren't edgelords.
But at least she didn't come from the Disney School of Dead Parents. (As far as we know)

----
I do rather like this model overall, but the scabbard and quiver bouncing and scraping against each other constantly would get old fast.

Happy people, when asked if they fancy you taking on a city of Vampires, are apt to tell you to sod off;

 Nazrak wrote:
Don't really understand why people get so mad about a rock sculpted on a base, as if clippers aren't a thing.

For a variety of reasons, I'm sure. The one that comes to mind here is that it's simply unnecessary. It doesn't add anything to the model compared to just doing that move with a foot on firm ground. The thing with clippers here is, for the sculptor it's no big deal getting the exact same pose on the ground with only a slight bit of a 3D rework of the foot. If you want her on the ground and in the same pose, you have to at least keep a bit of the rock since she leaps off the side of it. Or build up a mound with your basing material. Or resculpt the foot. Because otherwise you can't put that foot, as it is, flat on a base and retain the pose. It's not as easy a fix as you make it out. It's by no means hard, but considering GW has already done models where you can simply leave off the tactical rock and still get a nice looking model in a fitting pose (Imperial Assassins come to mind) and that the rock is not required for the model's pose to make sense, any work you put into it will feel excessive.

 Kanluwen wrote:

warl0rdb0b wrote:
I'm not sure its a head dress on her, it looks like that may be actual antlers. If not, then it is the most understated tiara in GW history.

They definitely do appear to be actual antlers.

Personally I'm hoping for the most understated tiara in GW history as warl0rdb0b so nicely put it, but yeah, I guess it could just be antlers sticking out of her skull. I guess there's a fix for that, too.

She looks really cool. Glad the pose in the teaser trailer wasn't used (crouching rangers are cool, but a dynamic one suits her better. Lack of hooves is interesting, but she does have the same belly jewel and bow as the people in the Underworld team (Sylvaneth got belly jewels too).

I don't mind this kind of tactical rock. It's a part of the city, not just some stupid rock like the new vampire lord is posed on

 Kanluwen wrote:

warl0rdb0b wrote:
I'm not sure its a head dress on her, it looks like that may be actual antlers. If not, then it is the most understated tiara in GW history.

They definitely do appear to be actual antlers.

The Kurnothi have had some callbacks to some of the lore established about Kurnoth from older Wood Elf books and the Orion trilogy. Between the centaur, the satyrs, and now this huntress we might be seeing a breakdown of what a faction could actually look like.

Well, for AoS it might be acceptable to walk around with antlers poking from your head and nobody bats an eyelid. In the Old World? Not so much.

But damn, still I'll have to buy this Cursed City thing and use the models in some oldschool warhammerquesty games. This elfy beastwoman could even be an adversary or conflicted NPC.

Voss wrote:

Geifer wrote:I'm starting to see a pattern here. GW's really going for the antisocial murderhobo mob with the heroes, aren't they?

Modern heroes can't be heroes if they aren't edgelords.

I like that answer.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Happy people, when asked if they fancy you taking on a city of Vampires, are apt to tell you to sod off;

Happy people probably respect the sovereign right of Shyish nobility to rule as they see fit in their own domain.

Not so much followers of other gods who seek to depose them for the greater glory of said gods. No problem there. But they got to be super special outcasts because they're, like, super fanatics what are super badass unlike all those lame standard fanatics with their standard baddassery.

Yeah, I'm convinced Voss has the only right answer to this. I'm getting old.

I wonder what the chances are for the KO character to be unique, ie, helmetless (low, I imagine, since it looks like he has a helmet on in the art). Given that they're all just normal duardin under the helmet, I'm expecting GW to go the stormcast route and eventually release kits with a bunch of unhelmeted heads. I'm not familiar enough with the fluff, but do they wear helmets around non-duardon/KO? Because if all the heroes are rebels, the duardin NOT wearing a helmet would fit pretty well

 Gallahad wrote:
Does this model bore AOS fans? I would guess yes, but that is fine. Different tastes for different people and all that.

Nah. I'm quite into AoS furry elves but she's cool!
Even the tactical rock isn't as annoying as in, for example, the current Harlies kit. Looks like a decent action pose and not weird workaround to suggest the mini is somehow suspended in mid-air :|

Well, 3rd preview in and still nothing that might turn me off from buying this ...

I'm glad Cursed City is sticking with classic archetypes while updating them to modern sculpt quality. A wood elf ranger is hardly breaking any new ground, but if it ain't broke, don't fix it



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 GaroRobe wrote:
I'm not familiar enough with the fluff, but do they wear helmets around non-duardon/KO? Because if all the heroes are rebels, the duardin NOT wearing a helmet would fit pretty well

Pretty sure Kharadron Overlords wear helmets because the cloud they harvest is poisonous to breathe, it's not a cultural thing so much as a practical one. No reason to need one in the Cursed City other than the common sense of it

Another fantastic model. I'm not surprised she just looks like a wood elf, those half-centaur Kurnothi models simply do not work. And GW tend to not double down on a bad design.

This isn't a personal shot at anyone, but I just love how it's a given part of our sub-culture that a rock or other feature to stand on is just a gak move by the designer. That's definitely one thing that if nobody ever told me to notice, I'd never have thought twice about.

 Tim the Biovore wrote:
I'm glad Cursed City is sticking with classic archetypes while updating them to modern sculpt quality. A wood elf ranger is hardly breaking any new ground, but if it ain't broke, don't fix it



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 GaroRobe wrote:
I'm not familiar enough with the fluff, but do they wear helmets around non-duardon/KO? Because if all the heroes are rebels, the duardin NOT wearing a helmet would fit pretty well

Pretty sure Kharadron Overlords wear helmets because the cloud they harvest is poisonous to breathe, it's not a cultural thing so much as a practical one. No reason to need one in the Cursed City other than the common sense of it

I dunno. That makes sense, but in the KO black library novel (Overlords of the Iron Dragon), only one person is ever described with a helmet, and even then, half of it is open to display his beard. Every other character is described as helmetless (based on the numerous descriptions of their beards and other characters seeing their eyes), even while in the air or in a factory full of poisonous chemicals But it wouldn't be the first Black Library story to deviate from the fluff haha

Edit: Also, more on topic, it looks like Thursdays are our Cursed City preview day. I know they mentioned weekly teases, but never a specific day

 frankelee wrote:
Another fantastic model. I'm not surprised she just looks like a wood elf, those half-centaur Kurnothi models simply do not work. And GW tend to not double down on a bad design.

This isn't a personal shot at anyone, but I just love how it's a given part of our sub-culture that a rock or other feature to stand on is just a gak move by the designer. That's definitely one thing that if nobody ever told me to notice, I'd never have thought twice about.

I hate it when people present opinion as fact. A lot of people love the Kurnothi design. As for me I love both the underworlds warband and this hero.
I hope they get expanded into a full range one day.

As for this game, the minis are all looking absolutely terrific.

With 3 more villains and 6 more heroes to show it looks like we won't see the game until at least mid April. Waiting is going to be difficult.

This is the first model that has me really interested! (witch hunters and undead aren't my thing, but I am stoked that so many other people are into it - I just hope its priced to move better than BSF)

Really cool model but, like others, I see GWs use of tactical rocks, etc., as tiresome.

Tactical rock aside, this is a really pretty model that initially made me raise an eyebrow as it wasn't completely over the top. The whole sculpt is really nice.

Also, the artists they're using for the releases thus far are straying from the 'eavy metal style, which is only a good thing. The way the eyes have been painted add a great amount of direction to the mini.

 Geifer wrote:

I'm starting to see a pattern here. GW's really going for the antisocial murderhobo mob with the heroes, aren't they?

some people complained about lack of grimdark in AoS, so they're bringing back the WHRP school of personality design

Model looks really neat, nothing much to complain about.

Chikout wrote:

 frankelee wrote:
Another fantastic model. I'm not surprised she just looks like a wood elf, those half-centaur Kurnothi models simply do not work. And GW tend to not double down on a bad design.

This isn't a personal shot at anyone, but I just love how it's a given part of our sub-culture that a rock or other feature to stand on is just a gak move by the designer. That's definitely one thing that if nobody ever told me to notice, I'd never have thought twice about.

I hate it when people present opinion as fact. A lot of people love the Kurnothi design. As for me I love both the underworlds warband and this hero.
I hope they get expanded into a full range one day.

As for this game, the minis are all looking absolutely terrific.

With 3 more villains and 6 more heroes to show it looks like we won't see the game until at least mid April. Waiting is going to be difficult.

Well to each their own. The Kurnothi then are like having a big Duck Dynasty beard, not for me, but some people around where I live think they're pretty rad.

Given how hyped people are for this game, I kind of wish they'd maybe show off some tiles, or tokens, or player cards along with the models. It's too much hype and too little to go on for three months.

I'll still defend this tactical rock. It's a part of a city that's ruled by the undead, so obviously there will be plenty of ruins to jump off of. It's something other than just a random rock and it givens an idea of what the terrain is like in the city, since there's a decent chance we won't get terrain

However, I won't defend rocks on other models, namely every single aeldari character (and harlequin) posed on eldar ruins, or the stupid rock from the new soulblight lord. Oh, and although not technically a tactical rock, the "new" grey knight character who decided to rest his hammer on top of a random stupid rock

Female with mask, and okay pose, yeah it's a good GW model.

Muh tactical rock.

I'm getting a sort of dirty dozen/ suicide squad vibe to the heroes. Criminals, zealots, scum kicked out of their groups, teamed up to purge a city of the dead, a task they are not expected to survive

 Geifer wrote:
Happy people probably respect the sovereign right of Shyish nobility to rule as they see fit in their own domain.

Not so much followers of other gods who seek to depose them for the greater glory of said gods. No problem there. But they got to be super special outcasts because they're, like, super fanatics what are super badass unlike all those lame standard fanatics with their standard baddassery.

Yeah, I'm convinced Voss has the only right answer to this. I'm getting old.

The vampires seem to have been invited to rule to protect them from Chaos etc and then it went ...well badly for the inhabitants. In a similar vein, there is a quite a good novella where the Bonereapers have a vassel City of Sigmar where once you come of age - they take your arm - just one arm and its all very orgnaised but yeah....dark

It does seem to be a theme that as Shyish descends into Nagash's black hole of ultimate death its all getting worse for the people of the realm.

I was kinda hoping that we would have a undead on the "good" guys side - like there is a Choas warrior in the Silver Tower

She looks good. Interesting to see another iteration of the Kurnothi design style, and while I've got nothing against the centaur take, it wouldn't really fit the 'old world' aesthetic they seem to be going with.

I don't get the hate for the rock, though. Yeah, you can overuse or have just plain poorly executed tactical rocks, but you can also terribly over use nmm, edge highlights, or any other modeling/painting technique. That doesn't make them bad in general. She's a hero in an adventuring party, not an ork boy, so I don't see the harm. Do people not add some bling to their generals' bases in whfb to help them stand out (or physically fit inside a ranked unit) or consider how "immersion breaking" it is that their guys travel around on perfectly flat disks of cracked mud/chunks of stone/starship flooring that they obviously had to have specially delivered to the grassy field they're fighting over?

I don't think they're necessarily going for an Old World aesthetic, since you'd think they'd have used a fyreslayer, instead of a steampunk dwarf. However, so far, I think fans of Fantasy and AOS should be happy with the models so far. Heck, if people don't like the antlers, paint them golden. She has a gem on her head, so you can pretend it's just a fancy crown or something

 Trimarius wrote:
She looks good. Interesting to see another iteration of the Kurnothi design style, and while I've got nothing against the centaur take, it wouldn't really fit the 'old world' aesthetic they seem to be going with.

I don't get the hate for the rock, though. Yeah, you can overuse or have just plain poorly executed tactical rocks, but you can also terribly over use nmm, edge highlights, or any other modeling/painting technique. That doesn't make them bad in general. She's a hero in an adventuring party, not an ork boy, so I don't see the harm. Do people not add some bling to their generals' bases in whfb to help them stand out (or physically fit inside a ranked unit) or consider how "immersion breaking" it is that their guys travel around on perfectly flat disks of cracked mud/chunks of stone/starship flooring that they obviously had to have specially delivered to the grassy field they're fighting over?

People need something to bag on GW over. Some one pointed it out and a bunch of people who never cared before suddenly HATE THE ROCK!!! But most of them don't really care..its just the newest gw thing to complain about. And more on topic..shes amazo looking!! so far the heroes are super impressive to me . Not AOS balls o the wall bonkers but ...mostly realsitic heroes I can see fighting the villain. Like a D&D Group

 Trimarius wrote:
I don't get the hate for the rock, though. Yeah, you can overuse or have just plain poorly executed tactical rocks

Overuse is exactly my problem with them. Every single Witch Elf has this same pose, leaping, one leg high up. The new Lelith: ditto. The Howling Banshees are much the same. The sole conveniently placed rock looks out of place, the pose doesn't look natural, nor convenient for an archer, it's not original, it's not interesting, it's just an overused lazy design for "dynamic Elven figure". The new Hedonites have an overuse of rocks/ruins around them too, but at least they have different poses than "leaping", though it'll take some effort to remove all the rubble. Fixing this one will be easier, but that doesn't mean it should have been necessary to begin with.

I like her - my only worry is she is going to break off from the rock/base

 Mr Morden wrote:
I like her - my only worry is she is going to break off from the rock/base

I suspect that the foot has a piece of the rock/statuary attached to the bottom of it as a plug.

Are the heroes going to mirror blackstone fortress heroes?

Main human character ☑
Elf ranger ☑
Kroot
Halfling(s)
Hulking robot type
Navigator
Mad priest
Flamer girl

If so I can see a big ogre/Orruk type in the video and a kharadron ticking two more off the list

Great miniature, looking forward to painting all of these.

Bubbatron wrote:
Are the heroes going to mirror blackstone fortress heroes?

Maybe they're going to Sigmarify the Vermintide characters? We've got the Witch Hunter and the Wood Elf.

Y'all reckon there's any chance at all one of the heroes is either a grot or an ork? The lacking of that option was one of the reasons I never got into BSF and in 40k they could've made one of the characters a blood axe mercenary and it wouldn't've been too odd..

I don't know the AoS lore at all, is there any sort of leeway where you could add one of those races in as a playable character lore wise that has been explained/explored?

This game looks more up my alley aesthetics wise than BSF and all the characters shown look great but I can't help root for some boyz in green to be part of it.

PiñaColada wrote:
Y'all reckon there's any chance at all one of the heroes is either a grot or an ork? The lacking of that option was one of the reasons I never got into BSF and in 40k they could've made one of the characters a blood axe mercenary and it wouldn't've been too odd..

I don't know the AoS lore at all, is there any sort of leeway where you could add one of those races in as a playable character lore wise that has been explained/explored?

This game looks more up my alley aesthetics wise than BSF and all the characters shown look great but I can't help root for some boyz in green to be part of it.

In silver tower, Orcs and Goblin model from AoS can be used as heroes.

In BSF, there're Flash Gitz as companion to one of the explorer, but it wouldn't be too hard to houserule him as regular explorer.

PiñaColada wrote:
Y'all reckon there's any chance at all one of the heroes is either a grot or an ork? The lacking of that option was one of the reasons I never got into BSF and in 40k they could've made one of the characters a blood axe mercenary and it wouldn't've been too odd..

I don't know the AoS lore at all, is there any sort of leeway where you could add one of those races in as a playable character lore wise that has been explained/explored?

This game looks more up my alley aesthetics wise than BSF and all the characters shown look great but I can't help root for some boyz in green to be part of it.

Technically, there was an ork character option inf BSF. Not a unique model, (and only was a retinue character), but a flashgitz character was given rules in the white dwarf. Given that there's an ogor character and that greenskins were once part of Sigmar's alliance, I feel like greenskins definitely deserve a character in an expansion. If a Chaos barbarian was a playable character in Silver Tower, why not orruks? It also makes a lot more sense than a "good" undead guy

There could theoretically be either a grot or an orruk, both could be shoehorned in with some lore (or even as mercs, it happens for orruks), but I doubt GW will...

If a Chaos barbarian was a playable character in Silver Tower, why not orruks? It also makes a lot more sense than a "good" undead guy

I would be happy with either / both - but why would a "good" undead character be so strange.

 Geifer wrote:

I'm starting to see a pattern here. GW's really going for the antisocial murderhobo mob with the heroes, aren't they?

They know their target audience

Chikout wrote:

 frankelee wrote:
Another fantastic model. I'm not surprised she just looks like a wood elf, those half-centaur Kurnothi models simply do not work. And GW tend to not double down on a bad design.

This isn't a personal shot at anyone, but I just love how it's a given part of our sub-culture that a rock or other feature to stand on is just a gak move by the designer. That's definitely one thing that if nobody ever told me to notice, I'd never have thought twice about.

I hate it when people present opinion as fact. A lot of people love the Kurnothi design. As for me I love both the underworlds warband and this hero.
I hope they get expanded into a full range one day.

As for this game, the minis are all looking absolutely terrific.

With 3 more villains and 6 more heroes to show it looks like we won't see the game until at least mid April. Waiting is going to be difficult.

While I think the time of mid April is probably what I would have guessed.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they ramped up the reveals at some point, a couple together etc, then maybe something else in one of the slots. The board was mentioned etc..

People talking as if adventurers of this sort would be anything resembling sane and socially acceptable. Of course they are all nutcases, that is the only type of person who would survive in this job.

I reckon it’ll be a pre-order sooner than mid April. That’s because I don’t see them teasing everything first.

Rather I think we’re getting some appetite whetting before a Big Reveal. After all, we don’t really want to see the whole thing as Old Hat. Rather a “and here’s everything else isn’t it gorgeous look at how packed the box is yes that’d be £xxx thankyouplease”

Yeah. If everything is shown it would sort of lessen it.

We are back to full releases in March. So could easily be one of the 4 weekends there..

 Mr Morden wrote:

If a Chaos barbarian was a playable character in Silver Tower, why not orruks? It also makes a lot more sense than a "good" undead guy

I would be happy with either / both - but why would a "good" undead character be so strange.

I hadn't thought about that, but now I really want one of the heroes to be an undead. Even if it just follows the trope of "broke free from control" etc. Or maybe a recently "Nagashed" human/stormcast/other race that just can't let go. Or someone properly peeved at being bitten by a Vampire, but doesn't completely turn for one reason or another, and now just wants to muderdeathkill every fanged git in the city?

A Flesheater could easily be fluffed up to have regained their lucidity and be an actual ogre-sized undead lawful good knight. Heck is says in the Flesheater faction briefing that they consider themselvs allied to the Stormcast (it just never works out)

Or any sentient undead could be sent by a rival vampire to help take out this wolfman guy.

Danny76 wrote:
Yeah. If everything is shown it would sort of lessen it.

We are back to full releases in March. So could easily be one of the 4 weekends there..

Yeah I originally thought April but especially with them mentioning this model will be available "soon" I get the feeling March might be more likely.

Really love the model- I prefer the Satyr type Kurnothi but she's a great model and could mean the Kurnothi are a bit more mixed- like the DoK. She has the soul pod in her belly like the others so they aren't straight up Aelves.
Really looking forward to cursed city now- every model they have shown so far looks great to me.

 Mr Morden wrote:

If a Chaos barbarian was a playable character in Silver Tower, why not orruks? It also makes a lot more sense than a "good" undead guy

I would be happy with either / both - but why would a "good" undead character be so strange.

Because it's fashionable to denigrate the undead, I should think. Nagash made some unpopular decisions lately and one of the more unfortunate decisions the lore writers made was Nagash's overbearing role in Grand Alliance Death. It hardly leaves room for interesting internal dynamics and is only reinforced by GW strictly sticking with undead for the faction instead of allowing mixed living and undead "Cities of Nagash" armies, at least on the tabletop. I think there's a widespread perception of if you're undead, you're a minion of Nagash and just as guilty as he is because of this.

It's a general problem with AoS for me. Mortal agendas are far in the background while the focus is on the gods and their mindless drones. It's a bit too simplistic for my taste.

I certainly hope we'll see an undead character in the mix, but the way it's set up something like that would probably be left for a story expansion box, what with all the fanatics dominating the original party. As in, those go in first to rid the city of its (rightful ) rulers, stuff goes sideways, first expansion comes out to introduce a new undead dude(tte) who has its own plans for the city but not the means to see them through without striking a grudging alliance with the original heroes.

I really like what GW did with Silver Tower, releasing a card pack for clampack characters so you could play a hero from the faction you like best. I was happy with the Darkoath Chieftain but certainly didn't hesitate to buy and paint a Wight King specifically for that game. I'm hoping for good representation of factions in Cursed City as well, although maybe I need to temper that hope now that we get to "enjoy" playing GW's heroes rather than our own.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

I'm starting to see a pattern here. GW's really going for the antisocial murderhobo mob with the heroes, aren't they?

They know their target audience

Yes, but they could broaden their audience and try to cater to people other than myself.

I think an Undead hero would work great for this game. Warhammer doesn't really work well for D&D-style personal power fantasies, so oddly a character like Genevieve from Drachenfels where you get all the benefits and none of the penalties doesn't fit, it's more about power nightmares where you get all of the penalties, and all of the benefits get recontextualized into being additional penalties. But you could make a great tortured hero, or anti-hero who is undead but still thinks for themselves.

*cough*Tomb King*cough*

Not that I would expect to see such a thing even if GW does add one or more undead heroes to this.

 frankelee wrote:
I think an Undead hero would work great for this game. Warhammer doesn't really work well for D&D-style personal power fantasies, so oddly a character like Genevieve from Drachenfels where you get all the benefits and none of the penalties doesn't fit, it's more about power nightmares where you get all of the penalties, and all of the benefits get recontextualized into being additional penalties. But you could make a great tortured hero, or anti-hero who is undead but still thinks for themselves.

Genevieve had quite a few weakneses - silver/ hawthorn/fire/ no reflection etc and despite her actions was never really accepted - great bit in the last novel about her when about to be lynched by a mob in Altdorf she reminds them she saved the Emperor and is met with "Yeah but what have you done for us lately" Ulrika is also another goosd example and thats not even considering how often Neferata's Sisterhood assists against Chaos (and other Vampires) - self interest but long term.

Because it's fashionable to denigrate the undead, I should think. Nagash made some unpopular decisions lately and one of the more unfortunate decisions the lore writers made was Nagash's overbearing role in Grand Alliance Death. It hardly leaves room for interesting internal dynamics and is only reinforced by GW strictly sticking with undead for the faction instead of allowing mixed living and undead "Cities of Nagash" armies, at least on the tabletop. I think there's a widespread perception of if you're undead, you're a minion of Nagash and just as guilty as he is because of this.

AOS - agreed - although worship of Nagash is still allowed in some cities and several of the recent Neferata novels have dealt with the infighting between the Undead as much as the struggle against Chaos and/or Sigmar. Its a pity Josh Reynolds is no longer on board as I think we would have seen more and better undead stories and characters. I guess you could argue that as Nagash becomes more and more in control of Shyish, so the dead become more like him?

In terms of the new game A Deathrattle hero come to free the people - Living and Dead from the vampires would work really well as would the Flesh-eater crusading knight. We don;t know where the city is in Shyish but it may be important enough for Neferata or Mannfred to send someone to take over the city or eliminate the current ruler.

Lots of possibilities.

Or like Richter Kreugar, captain of the Cursed Company (Dogs of War). Mercenary in life who betrayed the necromancer he was working for, and the necromancer cursed him with his dying breath. Richter's flesh withered away and he died on the spot, only to rise up the next morning in skeletal form, and rising again every time he was struck down in battle in the centuries since. Those he slayed joined his skeleton company's ranks. After becoming one of them, he hasn't been a fan of the undead.

Speaking of them, it would be nice if the game would include some non-human undead. Always liked the Cursed Company sculpts of especially the skeletal Skaven, Goblin and Orcs. An undead Ogre could be fun.

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
Or like Richter Kreugar, captain of the Cursed Company (Dogs of War). Mercenary in life who betrayed the necromancer he was working for, and the necromancer cursed him with his dying breath. Richter's flesh withered away and he died on the spot, only to rise up the next morning in skeletal form, and rising again every time he was struck down in battle in the centuries since. Those he slayed joined his skeleton company's ranks. After becoming one of them, he hasn't been a fan of the undead.

Speaking of them, it would be nice if the game would include some non-human undead. Always liked the Cursed Company sculpts of especially the skeletal Skaven, Goblin and Orcs. An undead Ogre could be fun.

Yep another good example (I still ahve those models - very cool) ! There are some Ghost Orcs in the stories and risen zombies of lots of races but not models :(

It seemed to be going ina more intersting way with the Merc rules in one of the Generals Handbook but oh well.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 frankelee wrote:
I think an Undead hero would work great for this game. Warhammer doesn't really work well for D&D-style personal power fantasies, so oddly a character like Genevieve from Drachenfels where you get all the benefits and none of the penalties doesn't fit, it's more about power nightmares where you get all of the penalties, and all of the benefits get recontextualized into being additional penalties. But you could make a great tortured hero, or anti-hero who is undead but still thinks for themselves.

Genevieve had quite a few weakneses - silver/ hawthorn/fire/ no reflection etc and despite her actions was never really accepted - great bit in the last novel about her when about to be lynched by a mob in Altdorf she reminds them she saved the Emperor and is met with "Yeah but what have you done for us lately" Ulrika is also another goosd example and thats not even considering how often Neferata's Sisterhood assists against Chaos (and other Vampires) - self interest but long term.

Yeah, this is what I mean by power fantasy, it's like saying Edward is maybe too shiny and beautiful when he steps into the sunlight, so that's a real negative. I didn't mean to say she was Jesus Christ post-resurrection level powerful when I was talking about penalties and therefore totally unkillable, I mean she as a vampire doesn't have to murder people to live, isn't a twisted, hateful being, with a predatory, wolf-like face, and seems to retain all of her soul and regular consciousness. GW's Vampire Counts artwork does a great job displaying what a true dark fantasy vampire should be, they can look beautiful sometimes, but even then they look evil as a devil, and a lot of the time they have hideous, demonic faces, with souls to match. It's like yeah you live forever, as a monster. Yeah you have incredible strength and agility, which you use to murder the innocent with.

Not to say she doesn't work as a character, just that she doesn't mesh well with Warhammer, in either its more adult WFRP 1st sense, or the more teenage-ish WBF 5th ed. and onward. Any undead hero in this game should at least be unhappy. At least that's my opinion, in case anyone thought I was laying down law.

 frankelee wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 frankelee wrote:
I think an Undead hero would work great for this game. Warhammer doesn't really work well for D&D-style personal power fantasies, so oddly a character like Genevieve from Drachenfels where you get all the benefits and none of the penalties doesn't fit, it's more about power nightmares where you get all of the penalties, and all of the benefits get recontextualized into being additional penalties. But you could make a great tortured hero, or anti-hero who is undead but still thinks for themselves.

Genevieve had quite a few weakneses - silver/ hawthorn/fire/ no reflection etc and despite her actions was never really accepted - great bit in the last novel about her when about to be lynched by a mob in Altdorf she reminds them she saved the Emperor and is met with "Yeah but what have you done for us lately" Ulrika is also another goosd example and thats not even considering how often Neferata's Sisterhood assists against Chaos (and other Vampires) - self interest but long term.

Yeah, this is what I mean by power fantasy, it's like saying Edward is maybe too shiny and beautiful when he steps into the sunlight, so that's a real negative. I didn't mean to say she was Jesus Christ post-resurrection level powerful when I was talking about penalties and therefore totally unkillable, I mean she as a vampire doesn't have to murder people to live, isn't a twisted, hateful being, with a predatory, wolf-like face, and seems to retain all of her soul and regular consciousness. GW's Vampire Counts artwork does a great job displaying what a true dark fantasy vampire should be, they can look beautiful sometimes, but even then they look evil as a devil, and a lot of the time they have hideous, demonic faces, with souls to match. It's like yeah you live forever, as a monster. Yeah you have incredible strength and agility, which you use to murder the innocent with.

Not to say she doesn't work as a character, just that she doesn't mesh well with Warhammer, in either its more adult WFRP 1st sense, or the more teenage-ish WBF 5th ed. and onward. Any undead hero in this game should at least be unhappy. At least that's my opinion, in case anyone thought I was laying down law.

fair enough as you say each to their own - I like vampire ladies in particular - although Genevieve does have a inhuman predatory face like other vampires- its often mentioned when she loses control. I think she fits perfectly with the older and newer lore but thats just me.

What about Ossiarchs?

City full of dead bodies? Why wouldn't the Bonereapers want to come collect an extra tithe helping?

Could be a good excuse for coming up with a funky new Bonereaper character

exiled for mysterious reasons the bonereaper known as barry/kevin/dave only knew it needed a really, really big tithe to get back into Nagash's good books, and the this new city of the dead seemed a good place to start

JSG wrote:
Muh tactical rock.

Back in the day people had a fetish for combat stilettos. Now they have a fetish for high ground.

 DeadEyeDuk wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

If a Chaos barbarian was a playable character in Silver Tower, why not orruks? It also makes a lot more sense than a "good" undead guy

I would be happy with either / both - but why would a "good" undead character be so strange.

I hadn't thought about that, but now I really want one of the heroes to be an undead. Even if it just follows the trope of "broke free from control" etc. Or maybe a recently "Nagashed" human/stormcast/other race that just can't let go. Or someone properly peeved at being bitten by a Vampire, but doesn't completely turn for one reason or another, and now just wants to muderdeathkill every fanged git in the city?

Not mentioning Spike from Buffy, more relevant for this discussion is Alucard from the most exelent "Castlevania: symphony of the night", and Vampire hunter D from, well, "Vampire hunter D".
Yes both Castlevania and D is resonating deeply in the cursed city theme.

That said, it would be an obvious narrative twist if Jelsen Darrock turns out to suffer from vampirism himself; if it was the result of beeing bitten it would explain both his hatred for the undead, his cruel and inhuman methods, and also his expulsion from the order.

We already have existing background elements to support powerful spirits being on the side of Order, I seem to remember a paragraph talking about a Banshee that aided in the defence of her former home in life somewhere. Could stand to reason that a powerful member of the city council resisted the lure of the Wolf and remained an enemy in death?

warl0rdb0b wrote:
We already have existing background elements to support powerful spirits being on the side of Order, I seem to remember a paragraph talking about a Banshee that aided in the defence of her former home in life somewhere. Could stand to reason that a powerful member of the city council resisted the lure of the Wolf and remained an enemy in death?

https://ageofsigmar.lexicanum.com/wiki/Celemnis

Like alot of the Dead (and the alliance of Order in fact) She is less on the side of order and against Chaos who tortured and killed her.

But agreed there are a great many possibilities for Undead here.

I’ve been taking a few looks at the Cursed City Website image of the paladin style character with the sword. If you zoom on the face, it seems to me that his/her left ear is pointed. Could this be a Sigmar worshipping elf?

I would love if GW just had fun. Throw in some really random characters that have a shared goal. Who cares... its fun, and cool new models.

I still don’t understand how people keep getting “Order” confused with “good” and “Death” confused with evil, as though they are in abject opposition.
Please remember that fascism and communism are both ordered systems just as feudal monarchy and democratic oligarchy are; “Order” covers an incredibly broad range. Death, on the other hand, is by comparison almost too narrow; at the moment it is “mind controlling tyranny” and that’s about it, but that’s mostly because of Nagash being a complete bastard. It used to be about ultimate justice and the final refuge from Chaos. Then Nagash killed/ate/usurped all the other gods of death.

Anyway, the point is that order and death aren’t opposites; they’re (supposed to be) complements and a whole bunch of the Dead still remember that, even if they’re not allowed to act on it normally, or at least not on a grand scale. So random individual dead people not being complete monsters is actually expected.

Of course, with goobers like Katakros running around, I’m not totally surprised people get the wrong idea sometimes.
My only hope is that they are going to follow up on the hints that they have been dropping that Nagash’s control is not quite as absolute as either he thinks it is, or it once was…

Considering the writing quality of the battletomes I'm not surprised that people get confused impressions of the factions and their members. I still remember rolling my eyes at how GW tried to point out the tyrannical side of Order in the Sigmarine book to make them look oh so grimdark while at the same time unquestionably painting them as objective good guys. It read... schizophrenic? Chaos and Death get a similar treatment.

It's not like you can't write nuanced fiction that includes and balances positives and negatives, bit it's not an art the studio writers seem to be capable of. Instead they throw in hints of nuance and potential only to double down on the defining stereotypes that get repeated over and over, page for page.

It doesn't help that GW in recent years has switched over to making gods and heroes central to the narratives and tying faction identities closer to exemplars than ever. It just puts up another barrier to seeing the broader faction behind the character.

I still remember rolling my eyes at how GW tried to point out the tyrannical side of Order in the Sigmarine book to make them look oh so grimdark while at the same time unquestionably painting them as objective good guys. It read... schizophrenic?

They tried writing them like space marines, and since they're not, it came across schizophrenic. I was furious at the ham-fisted grimdarkization in the 2nd ed battletome for stormcast.

And yes, Death could've been so much more, and so could Destruction and Chaos, but GW forces it's narrow cartoonish vision from 40k into everything they write so we got...Order that tries to be good guys but has ostensibly evil factions, Death that is just Nagash, Destruction that has no space to grow since everyone must worship the greenskin god, and Chaos that is just as one-note as it's 40k counterpart despite not being saddled with galaxy's sorest losers to back up the lack of civilization. Like, chaos should absolutely have kingdoms (or kinkdoms for Slaanesh followers), not just marauding hordes of endless destruction. We even have that in some of the BL books, but it never, ever gets carried over to battletomes.

Yeah, Chaos could have been so much more than the craziness of AoS. GW doesn't seem to want forces of Chaos as represented any other way than as berserkers inhabiting insane hell dimensions, full of blood rain and rocks made from screaming souls being what fortresses are built from, like every place Chaos takes over turns into a Daemon World in the Eye of Terror from 40K where eventually everything would stagnate and everyone mortal would starve. Chaos Undivided especially could be just a dark and dismal opposite of the forces of Sigmar.

Almost like a version of Sylvania and the Empire's Great Forest from the Old World, where an elevated Lord controls everything locally, their Warriors are the upper class and the conquered peasants form the workforce. When they weren't out waging war, you would still have Chaos knights roving around and protecting their valued meal tickets from the warped beasts that the animals and debased people are turned into by the alteration of the winds of magic flowing through the area.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Yeah, Chaos could have been so much more than the craziness of AoS.

More how, exactly?

Chaos was, in the past, consistently depicted as evil and, ultimately, self destructive. Whatever it creates, is doomed to wither and die, because that's the ultimate goal of the Chaos Powers - an existence comprised solely of them.

Those cultist cities we sometimes hear about might look neat from a distance, but then someone has to explain how they actually work as a functional society, DESPITE the corrupting influence of Chaos, and it all falls apart at the seams.

You'd have to re-frame Chaos within the setting to make it more than a delivery system for crazy.

eh, Chaos doesn't equate with actual anarchy until you get into the warp itself, where the rules of existence are different anyway.

Chaos as it in practice in the "real world" is a more despotic might makes right type society that is pretty straight forward in how it works, its just the extra details always make it seem absurd.

Honestly, if you want a good example, think of the Terran Empire from the Mirrorverse from Star Trek.
And empire that seems stable on the outside, but constant infighting and threats to your life make it seem very chaotic and prone to wild shifts in power.

there is a specific kingdom of Khorne in the recent Neferata book which is organised and effective under a Deamon Prince from Hysh - it is geared towards war but it works in the novel.

Anyone can be in the group if the situation is desperate enough, but having non-order (especially chaos) heroes in the group almost always end up with some backstabbing a the end. But that's not really relevant in term of gameplay, because they won't be implementing that kind of mechanic into the game.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
And empire that seems stable on the outside, but constant infighting and threats to your life make it seem very chaotic and prone to wild shifts in power.

This is how real-world fascist regimes tend to be, in contrast to the silly Hollywood-Nazi myth of a highly efficient, ordered and disciplined society. Fascist Italy, Germany and (to a somewhat lesser degree) Spain were full of petty backstabbing and really hilarious levels of corruption, with rules that changed with the leader's whims and an ideology that pretended to be rigid and unstinting but was actually constantly twisted into new loopholes in the name of expediency (e.g. the Japanese being declared 'honorary Aryans'). The trains actually didn't run on time - that was mostly propaganda. Propaganda was really the only thing the fascists were good at.

So I think a 'functional' Chaos-based society would probably look a lot like a fascist one, but as fascist societies really were rather than the Hollywood version.

Either that or anarcho-capitalism. But nobody has ever been able to make that work, so a 'functional' ancap society might be an oxymoron...

EDIT: I guess my point is that a functional Chaos-based state would probably present itself to both its own citizens and everyone else as a civilized, ordered sort of place, and the actual Chaos stuff (rampant selfishness, individualist power-seeking, human sacrifice, etc.) would all go on behind a screen of skilled propaganda and manipulation. Even the worship of the Chaos Gods would probably be hidden within a system of occult symbolism. Aaaand... I just realised I am describing Nochseed here (the Cypher Lords' city-state in Hysh). So this actually does already exist in AoS.

There was a great thread on 4chan a while back about Chaos society, starting from the question on who would do something as mundane as manufacture paper in a society that is essentially a very violent meritocracy, and ended up at Skaven urchins and CMOT Dibbler types selling street food to chaos warriors.

 Duskweaver wrote:
I guess my point is that a functional Chaos-based state would probably present itself to both its own citizens and everyone else as a civilized, ordered sort of place, and the actual Chaos stuff (rampant selfishness, individualist power-seeking, human sacrifice, etc.) would all go on behind a screen of skilled propaganda and manipulation.

I mean, isn't that just the Empire?

From Dominion of Bone

The dead ruled no longer. Mausolea had changed from a city of shadows and silence to a cauldron of flame. Its mortal population had grown under the reign of the Lord of Skulldagger Bastion. Khorne craved blood. To feed that insatiable hunger required an army and an industry unlike any that Mausolea or any of the lands and cities of Angaria had ever seen. Tombs had been opened, vaults had been ransacked, graves had been turned into primitive forges. Molten iron ran down the gutters of the streets. Graunos commanded, and an army grew, and from the maws of the industry that created the army came the flames that rose and spread their light on the mountainside

Graunos’ empire was a cauldron of violence, murder and rage. It was also one that could sustain itself. The daemon prince had created a power base that was stable enough to grow much larger, drawing more and more of Shyish into the bloody embrace of the Skull God. Part of what made Graunos so dangerous was that he understood that armies that supplied themselves solely through plunder would eventually run out of fuel. Graunos saw the savagery in competition, the viciousness in trade, and turned those impulses into another kind of tribute to the Blood God. From the predation of the market came the means to greater and faster conquest.

Hah, free market capitalism as a Chaos invention, seems close enough to the truth.

Would also work in 40k where such a thing would be considered heresy, as the Administratum rules the commerce with 5 year (or more likely 50 year) plans, corruption and tithes, Soviet style.

Nah; as has been said before, the Imperium proper is purely feudal. The Administratum are the castle servants, the governors and high lords the aristocracy, and the planets the villages and hamlets around the castles being taxed within an inch of their lives.
No-one in the castles gives a damn where and how the peasants pay their taxes, as long as they get paid.

The only oddity is that any given planet could theoretically have literally any political system in place as long as it was one that somehow generated enough materiel to pay the administratum. Even if most governors take the “as above, so below” approach and run their worlds as techno-feudalistic monarchies as well.

His Master's Voice wrote:I mean, isn't that just the Empire?

Not really. Unless you rewrote the Empire so that the Church of Sigmar was actually a Chaos cult, but only the priests and the Imperial aristocracy knew that. And the persecution and burning of 'witches' was actually just a cover for human sacrifice (the 'witches' really being people who found out the truth about the Church and refused to worship Chaos). Even 1st edition WHFRP didn't treat the Empire quite that cynically.

Oguhmek wrote:Hah, free market capitalism as a Chaos invention, seems close enough to the truth.

I did mention anarcho-capitalism...

Oooh, this weekend they're going to reveal the beast-legged guy, the wolf guy, and the priestess/sorceress girl on the livestream. GET HYPED!

Yeah exciting to see those, and anything else they’ll show us!

 Duskweaver wrote:

Not really.

I'm aware of the technical difference. My point is that, while it might fulfil the general definition of a 'Chaos society', the execution would be so close to a 'non-Chaos society corrupted by Chaos' that it wouldn't actually add anything meaningfully unique to the setting.

Yeah, any Chaos society would at some point in its past be a non-Chaos society which was corrupted. The only 'pure' Chaos societies would be daemons.

 His Master's Voice wrote:
the execution would be so close to a 'non-Chaos society corrupted by Chaos' that it wouldn't actually add anything meaningfully unique to the setting.

Then you have entirely failed to understand anything I have said in this thread.
Then I have entirely failed to get my point across.

 Duskweaver wrote:

Then you have entirely failed to understand anything I have said in this thread.

You can disagree with me without trying to question my reading comprehension skills.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

You can disagree with me without trying to question my reading comprehension skills.

I'm sorry; that did sound like I was blaming you for not getting it, which wasn't really my intention. Misunderstandings are the fault of the writer, not the reader. But I genuinely don't know how you can not see the difference between:

a society deliberately set up to empower the Chaos gods, based on a Chaotic philosophy, including deliberate manipulation of the populace;

and a society where Chaos-worship is strictly forbidden, but sometimes occurs anyway because there are illegal cults.

Like, Nochseed and Altdorf aren't the same at all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Yeah, any Chaos society would at some point in its past be a non-Chaos society which was corrupted.

I don't think that is necessarily the case. I can easily imagine a worshipper of Tzeentch setting up an entirely new society based on Chaos principles in which the ruling clique use mass deception to hide the true nature of the society from most of its members, maybe starting with a tribe of primitive hunter-gatherers and then gradually 'guiding' them over centuries to create his 'perfect' civilization...

And we're back to 'Alternative Character Interpretation: The Emperor', aren't we?

No offence taken.

I understand the difference. I simply think that, from a narrative relevance standpoint, the difference doesn't warrant its own existence.

It's the They Live situation. The film isn't really about American society ran by lizard people, because that society doesn't differ in any narratively meaningful way from American society ran by people people. Sure, you go 'huh, that's crazy!', but from there, it's mostly a story about a hobo with a shotgun, because the shocking reveal can't carry a 90 minute viewing experience.

Likewise, you can realise that Nochseed is ran by a Chaos cult, and... then what? People still pay taxes, children are born, the mundane human existence continues, except now instead of exporting democracy, we're bombing people for oil. Metaphorically speaking.

I just don't see what narrative opportunities open up in Nochseed that weren't present in the Empire, when Empire already had that conspiracy layer of possible cult activity at every level of society.

Now, if you lean into the crazy, self destructive nature of Chaos, then sure, I can imagine a couple interesting things that could be done. Dunno if this is the best place for worldbuilding spitballing.

Seems to me the silhouette of Wolf might be a) a composite of two models, his beast form and human form or b) that lupine left arm indicates either he’s mid transformation or he has a bestial aspect in general.

Well maybe instead of thinking "chaos god" but instead what it would look like if it was a singular chaos god? Maybe nation is split in territory between groups that solely focus on worship of single chaos god or whole nation is?

Khorne & Slaanesh are probably easiest to think of.

Khorne wants blood and skulls (and vice versa) so human sacrifice would be on the table. Maybe just some slaves in altar, gladiator duels that can only end in death and maybe capturing and murdering a strong and famous enemy could be a status symbol. Bonus if it was an wizard.

Slaanesh is bit trickier but as god of Excess (and maybe STD) it maybe simply being over the top to the extreme. Buildings trying to reach higher with ridiculous amount of statues, streets full of carts carried by slaves or beasts so that owners don't need to touch the ground. Or maybe they walk on ground that is covered in gold.

But Tzeentch and Nurgle are probably bit more bit trickier in this concept.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Yeah, any Chaos society would at some point in its past be a non-Chaos society which was corrupted. The only 'pure' Chaos societies would be daemons.

Not necessarily true. The later edition versions of Norsca suggest that they're just every-day chaos worshipers, and they've always been like that. Some of them wander off and try to become Chosen, others stay home and offer sacrifices to the Big Four in between hunting and fishing. Sometimes one village raids another, but whatever. That happens without chaos.

Dread Master wrote:
Seems to me the silhouette of Wolf might be a) a composite of two models, his beast form and human form or b) that lupine left arm indicates either he’s mid transformation or he has a bestial aspect in general.

I thought this, too, but then the lupine 'arm' might be just part of the pelt, like on the newish Ragnar mini? Mid transformation would be interesting, tho. https://www.games-workshop.com/de-DE/Ragnar-Blackmane-2020

 Duskweaver wrote:

This is how real-world fascist regimes tend to be

It's any authoritarian regime, really. A couple of well-known examples from fascism's sibling communism would be Mao's anti-sparrow campaign (part of a broader campaign against "pests" that happened to include sparrows; they found out the hard way that sparrows are *not* pests...), and the Cultural Revolution.

Hah, free market capitalism as a Chaos invention, seems close enough to the truth.

Seems more like a Tzeentchian thing, though. Graunos might want to take a closer look at his advisors...

Khorne wants blood and skulls (and vice versa) so human sacrifice would be on the table. Maybe just some slaves in altar, gladiator duels that can only end in death and maybe capturing and murdering a strong and famous enemy could be a status symbol.

Sounds like the Aztecs...

There have been plenty of other cultures that practiced human sacrifice, of course. But what I know about the Aztecs suggests that they were far more aggressive about it than pretty much everyone else that we know of.

Slaanesh is bit trickier but as god of Excess (and maybe STD) it maybe simply being over the top to the extreme. Buildings trying to reach higher with ridiculous amount of statues, streets full of carts carried by slaves or beasts so that owners don't need to touch the ground. Or maybe they walk on ground that is covered in gold.

While ground paved in gold is so over the top as to be completely impractical (for one thing, where are you going to find that much gold?), there are plenty of examples of real-world decadent cultures that could fill in as examples of the rest of what you listed.

Tzeentch would be represented by any sort of long-term unstable government situation. A republic, or even a true democracy, would both probably work just fine. The important thing is that the governmental structure would have incentives in place that make it very difficult (effectively impossible) for any one group to gain enough power to fully control the government. And if one group somehow did do that, then said group would immediately fall to squabbling amongst its own members, causing the group to fall apart.

Nurgle would require some thinking on.

 MobileSuitRandom wrote:

Dread Master wrote:
Seems to me the silhouette of Wolf might be a) a composite of two models, his beast form and human form or b) that lupine left arm indicates either he’s mid transformation or he has a bestial aspect in general.

I thought this, too, but then the lupine 'arm' might be just part of the pelt, like on the newish Ragnar mini? Mid transformation would be interesting, tho. https://www.games-workshop.com/de-DE/Ragnar-Blackmane-2020

Is it me tho, or does that lupine arm appear to be “bone in” if you know what I mean.... it doesn’t appear to be just part of a wolfskin.

Eumerin wrote:
Tzeentch would be represented by any sort of long-term unstable government situation. A republic, or even a true democracy, would both probably work just fine. The important thing is that the governmental structure would have incentives in place that make it very difficult (effectively impossible) for any one group to gain enough power to fully control the government. And if one group somehow did do that, then said group would immediately fall to squabbling amongst its own members, causing the group to fall apart.

A good example of this in literature would be the Tsurani from the Rift Wars books where while there is a stable emperor, the rest of the governmental powerbase is a constantly shifting game of factions changing allegiances in order to gain power for their faction or subgroup, with some factions only being temporary alliances of smaller factions.

I'm not saying, I'm just saying.
(No beak spike on the art though.)

I just wanted to pop in to say that, despite your disagreements, this thread has brought up LOTS of good ideas about how the AoS world could actually be interpreted in ways that make sense. Not that I mind the metal album cover version where it's just raining blood and there are no edible plants either, but sometimes that gets tiring.

I sense terrain in this box, and the higher price point rumor being accurate. It seems the integral terrain included as part some of the reveals, and related RE’s coupled with the fact that no previous WHQ has made use of any, points towards this being a first in the series.

Longstrider wrote:
I just wanted to pop in to say that, despite your disagreements, this thread has brought up LOTS of good ideas about how the AoS world could actually be interpreted in ways that make sense. Not that I mind the metal album cover version where it's just raining blood and there are no edible plants either, but sometimes that gets tiring.

Did this post get lost in the warp for five years?

Dread Master wrote:
I sense terrain in this box, and the higher price point rumor being accurate. It seems the integral terrain included as part some of the reveals, and related RE’s coupled with the fact that no previous WHQ has made use of any, points towards this being a first in the series.

Does it though?
I’m not seeing that necessarily likely personally..

By integral terrain in reveals, you just mean the sculpted bases?
Like Warhammer Underworlds has?

The only way I can think of that this could have a substantial amount of terrain would be if they'd really push it more towards something like Mordheim ... like the super expensive Necro box, this could then double as an 'introduction' of an AoS city-building kit a la Zone Mortalis. But why would they do this with their WHQ dungeon crawler IP, and not with WarCry?

This thread is a little depressing. All the lore related things people are asking for are already in the game. People should read the RPG books especially the city guide to Brightspear. The warcry rule book also describes a functioning chaos city. There are also plenty of examples of the different aspects of chaos society in the black library books, the order of the fly being a good example.
The battletomes by their very nature tend to focus on the armies.
As for an undead hero that is already a very well established part of the lore. Most of the order cities in Shyish were built by the dead and living and the dead exist side by side in those cities. There are even two AoS novels that prominently feature Mannfred himself fighting alongside the stormcast.

I am very much looking forward to seeing how cursed city deepens the lore of AoS.

 frankelee wrote:
I'm not saying, I'm just saying.
(No beak spike on the art though.)

That's the cat (I assume). One of the pre-undead humans on the website has a cat with him. The wizard dude with a candle

 GaroRobe wrote:

 frankelee wrote:
I'm not saying, I'm just saying.
(No beak spike on the art though.)

That's the cat (I assume). One of the pre-undead humans on the website has a cat with him. The wizard dude with a candle

Hmmm, yes that does look more like an undead cat. Part of me was thinking maybe we'd have some little enemies, which is something that stretches back to the original Warhammer Quest. The map suggests maybe we'll see bats and "carrion horrors". As well as the spectral dead and maybe a ghost band.

There's the little critters with keys that might be part of the game.

Danny76 wrote:

Dread Master wrote:
I sense terrain in this box, and the higher price point rumor being accurate. It seems the integral terrain included as part some of the reveals, and related RE’s coupled with the fact that no previous WHQ has made use of any, points towards this being a first in the series.

Does it though?
I’m not seeing that necessarily likely personally..

By integral terrain in reveals, you just mean the sculpted bases?
Like Warhammer Underworlds has?

Just a hunch I have. The use of a consistent pattern of ruins on the bases we’ve seen. Or like the werewolf/vampire thrall thing hanging from that stonework pillar. Terrain hasn't been integrated in this way before in WHQ. That coupled with the higher price point rumor makes me think it’s plausible.

it'd barely be a boardgame, im sure they'd rather keep the game accessible than just a weird co-op Underworlds.

The rumour of price is also unfounded.
It’s just come from people saying “oh it’ll probably cost lots cos GW are GW”
There’s no person in the know, or retailer or anything that this information has come from.

The bases all match, I’d imagine that’s more just to make it look nice. If anything they’d match the board sure.

But why wouldn’t they match. It’s gonna be weird if they were all different looking?
They are mouldEd bases probably due to the models being like Underworlds where they’ll have a pin to clip in.
So people can start playing quicker. As opposed to black rounds.

Torgillius the Chamberlain

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/02/18/meet-the-scientist-itching-to-experiment-on-you-in-warhammer-quest-cursed-city/

Amusingly, that's not the raven from the rumor engine! That one had a key.

Wah, this dude is the best, very WHFRP!

 Kanluwen wrote:
Amusingly, that's not the raven from the rumor engine! That one had a key.

Well, he has keys AND a raven, so he doesn't need a bespoke key-raven? Let's see where the latter one goes, and if there'll be some kind of narrative connection!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just noticed that this is a messenger-raven (tele-raven?), with a little scroll attached to a ring above its claw. Hope he doesn't set it on fire with his candle.

I'm really liking these figures so far, I'm happy that they are a bit more grimdark. I am very tempted by this set, although not sure I'll ever play it enough to justify getting it

So I guess "grimdark" is really just a codeword for "superbusy" models?

The 'villains' so far are 1/3 for me. The Captain looks great, the other two look like Blanchitsu projects.

Detailed does not equal busy.

What is with people dressing up as boats in this city?

Props to the folks who guessed that one of the factions will be an animal menagerie.

Danny76 wrote:
The rumour of price is also unfounded.
It’s just come from people saying “oh it’ll probably cost lots cos GW are GW”
There’s no person in the know, or retailer or anything that this information has come from.

The bases all match, I’d imagine that’s more just to make it look nice. If anything they’d match the board sure.

But why wouldn’t they match. It’s gonna be weird if they were all different looking?
They are mouldEd bases probably due to the models being like Underworlds where they’ll have a pin to clip in.
So people can start playing quicker. As opposed to black rounds.

I guess we’ll see.

Nice. First impulse was that there's too much variety of critters on a single model, but that faded pretty quickly.

 Kanluwen wrote:
So I guess "grimdark" is really just a codeword for "superbusy" models?

The 'villains' so far are 1/3 for me. The Captain looks great, the other two look like Blanchitsu projects.

Blanchitsu is probably the point. Cursed City looks like a deliberate attempt to get across a Mordheim feel, but with modern quality sculpts.

He is also too busy for me. What does he need a candle for? To see in the dark? An undead minion that can´t see in the darkness?

Also the cat/fox/raccoon looks weird.

I wonder if the critters will get a specific gameplay mechanic, or if they'll be just decoration for this guy's faction's minis? From the article:

Warhammer Community wrote:He has also developed the ability to project his will into the diseased vermin in the city, allowing him to spy upon the populace

Decent Noah's Ark cosplay tho

 Papa-Schlumpf wrote:
He is also too busy for me. What does he need a candle for? To see in the dark? An undead minion that can´t see in the darkness?

He looks to be a region specific take on a necromancer, who have traditionally been old cranky dudes extending their lives via magic. Certainly not ordinary dudes, but regular dudes nonetheless. There's no reason that I can think of why a necromancer should be able to see in the dark without any source of light.

Can't say I really like this miniature. The other Leaders are better in my opinion.
I was promised spooky undead creatures, not Argus Filch from Harry Potter.

Anyway that means the 4 Leaders are the ones that we see in the site from day one, so that leaves the Vampire dude with the sword and Wolf himself.
That leaves 2 parts of the city on the left side and 3 part on the right side. Whats that? Expantions?

Also if they are expantions it means that the heroes take the main road to the main villain and then decide to go to the edge of the city to do the side missions...
Everyone knows you do the side missions before the main villaing...

 straken619 wrote:
Also if they are expantions it means that the heroes take the main road to the main villain and then decide to go to the edge of the city to do the side missions...
Everyone knows you do the side missions before the main villaing...

Hm, the article makes it sound like you'll need to take on the minor villains to weaken the main villain?

Warhammer Community wrote:The chamberlain’s knowledge of grave-sand means that his master can now deflect wounds that would otherwise destroy him

Fantastic mini! Really looking forward to seeing the preview Saturday! The models are characterful with a lot of atmospheric visual cues.

I like him. He looks like they stuck his head in the stocks and he just broke it off and kept going.

I find him detailed more than busy. And it's a good balance, his outfit is rather plain, his hat and wooden accessories are rather flourished. Things like the Ossiarch Bonereapers are for me extremely busy and incredibly ugly. The incredibly ugly isn't just for me, I give that to everybody, those models are hideously ugly whether you like them or not.

Yeah I'm very much good with this one too. Not seen anything to put me off yet!

 straken619 wrote:


so that leaves the Vampire dude with the sword and Wolf himself.

The villain with the sword is the werewolf, although it seems that it only has wolf paws.

The final boss is the one with decorative wolf skins, But we have no clue if he's vampire, wolf, or what.

The good news is we'll see both revealed this Saturday. They silhouettes showed the boss and the parkour vampire. But they'll probably save lesser foes and heroes to continue the slow reveal schedule. I'm still hoping the big bad has two forms, like Morathi.

Parkour zombie can't be a main antagonist though. We have two "bosses" left to reveal, and one of them is that skeletal person whose shield we've seen. Unless the wolf dude isn't getting a slot on the website...? Also, if those are the last two bosses, wonder what the zombie-pirate guy with the axe will be for. Soulblights, I guess?

I don't know about this dude, to be honest. Nothing about him is bad. But he's a bit busy. He's got a flagellant vibe, but nothing in his lore indicates why lol. It would be fun if some of the lesser enemies are rats and crows, and unless you kill them quickly, they flee back, "reporting" your presence to the Necromancer and then he appears in person

 Geifer wrote:

 Papa-Schlumpf wrote:
He is also too busy for me. What does he need a candle for? To see in the dark? An undead minion that can´t see in the darkness?

He looks to be a region specific take on a necromancer, who have traditionally been old cranky dudes extending their lives via magic. Certainly not ordinary dudes, but regular dudes nonetheless. There's no reason that I can think of why a necromancer should be able to see in the dark without any source of light.

The guy has red eyes and fangs painted. So for me it was an indicator that he is not a regular dude anymore. Also he can use the vision of his "pets" to see in the dark. Not need for a candle (for me at least).

But what does he carry on his back, that is so important to have it always with you? Letters from the misses or the receipts of his last wargaming purchases? Is he currently ordering a new starter box with the raven?

First one that is a miss for me, but in no way deters this new box from anything but a "must buy"

If you look closely, the candle flame is touching the crow's foot. So that's why its probably screaming

 GaroRobe wrote:


Parkour zombie can't be a main antagonist though. We have two "bosses" left to reveal, and one of them is that skeletal person whose shield we've seen. Unless the wolf dude isn't getting a slot on the website...? Also, if those are the last two bosses, wonder what the zombie-pirate guy with the axe will be for. Soulblights, I guess?

I think that the parkour is one of the bosses. It has the same hair, shoulder pad and sword in the silhouette as in the drawing of the shield on the web.

We have already seen the skeleton boss, so the one with the shield could be another minion, or for AoS.

the "pirate zombie" is the one that most intrigues me, too pretty to be just a minion in this game.

He'd be a good model without the shoulder crossbeam and message board (and the paper strip around his hat).

A little more Evil Priest and a little less Overburdened One-Man Messenger Service (which really doesn't come across at all as sinister)

zamerion wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:


Parkour zombie can't be a main antagonist though. We have two "bosses" left to reveal, and one of them is that skeletal person whose shield we've seen. Unless the wolf dude isn't getting a slot on the website...? Also, if those are the last two bosses, wonder what the zombie-pirate guy with the axe will be for. Soulblights, I guess?

I think that the parkour is one of the bosses. It has the same hair, shoulder pad and sword in the silhouette as in the drawing of the shield on the web.

We have already seen the skeleton boss, so the one with the shield could be another minion, or for AoS.

the "pirate zombie" is the one that most intrigues me, too pretty to be just a minion in this game.

I'm just using the Unrevealed silhouettes on the website haha. The standard one for heroes is the female knight, and the one for the villains is the skeletal looking dude.



Though it does have the same helmet as the basic skeletons, so maybe it's just the one with the sword? Weird choice to use a grunt for silhouettes though

They're placeholder silhouettes, specifically to avoid us being able to spoil things.

The 'parkour vampire' did seem to have a female twin, so that one might be a twofer.

 Kanluwen wrote:
So I guess "grimdark" is really just a codeword for "superbusy" models?

The 'villains' so far are 1/3 for me. The Captain looks great, the other two look like Blanchitsu projects.

You're correct that they look like Blanchitsu models and horrendously incorrect in thinking that this is somehow a bad thing.

Take off the crow and the bat and he'd make a nice "guy with suicide rats" for a Cawdor gang.

I don’t think the candle is for vision at all. Most likely it is for the wax seals on his messages he sends off on his little feathery friends. How far is a candle going to illuminate anything anyway. Would’t it be a torch if it was to be able to see by?

I like the mini, not too over the top and can definitely see it painted up like one of Blanche's pieces and it wouldn't look out of place.

 Crimson wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
So I guess "grimdark" is really just a codeword for "superbusy" models?

The 'villains' so far are 1/3 for me. The Captain looks great, the other two look like Blanchitsu projects.

You're correct that they look like Blanchitsu models and horrendously incorrect in thinking that this is somehow a bad thing.

I'll take Kopinski or Gallagher over Blanche, thanks.

Crows to the left of me, black bats to the right....

Here I am, stuck in the middle with rats....

Mini-wise at least, this game is looking better and better!

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
So I guess "grimdark" is really just a codeword for "superbusy" models?

The 'villains' so far are 1/3 for me. The Captain looks great, the other two look like Blanchitsu projects.

You're correct that they look like Blanchitsu models and horrendously incorrect in thinking that this is somehow a bad thing.

I'll take Kopinski or Gallagher over Blanche, thanks.

Eh, Kopinski's non Warhammer work is bland af.

zamerion wrote:

 straken619 wrote:


so that leaves the Vampire dude with the sword and Wolf himself.

The villain with the sword is the werewolf, although it seems that it only has wolf paws.

The final boss is the one with decorative wolf skins, But we have no clue if he's vampire, wolf, or what.

I mean this vampire dude. He looks like the parkour silhouette but in the trailer there are 2 parkour silhouettes with lighter armor so im not sure if its him or his squad.


He is the forth from the site. The other 3 are the leaders we have already seen.

The boss is the 5th and we have already seen his silhouette, so the skeleton is probably a generic mob.

And then there is this lady that doesnt fit anywhere

She looks like a mummy.

Love all the models so far, this is going to be so much fun to paint.

 Papa-Schlumpf wrote:
He is also too busy for me. What does he need a candle for? To see in the dark? An undead minion that can´t see in the darkness?

Also the cat/fox/raccoon looks weird.

Do you mean the wolf?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
So I guess "grimdark" is really just a codeword for "superbusy" models?

The 'villains' so far are 1/3 for me. The Captain looks great, the other two look like Blanchitsu projects.

You're correct that they look like Blanchitsu models and horrendously incorrect in thinking that this is somehow a bad thing.

I'll take Kopinski or Gallagher over Blanche, thanks.

I don't really know what you are on about, I don't follow the artists. Still agree to disagree I like his animal buddies! Though that poor crow looks like its going to be a bit toasty

 Crimson wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
So I guess "grimdark" is really just a codeword for "superbusy" models?

The 'villains' so far are 1/3 for me. The Captain looks great, the other two look like Blanchitsu projects.

You're correct that they look like Blanchitsu models and horrendously incorrect in thinking that this is somehow a bad thing.

There's a difference between "blanche-inspired" and blanchitsu (aka blanche, but flanderized).
Followers of "blanchitsu" have no chill, both amateurs and in this case, the GW design team.

Cronch wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
So I guess "grimdark" is really just a codeword for "superbusy" models?

The 'villains' so far are 1/3 for me. The Captain looks great, the other two look like Blanchitsu projects.

You're correct that they look like Blanchitsu models and horrendously incorrect in thinking that this is somehow a bad thing.

There's a difference between "blanche-inspired" and blanchitsu (aka blanche, but flanderized).
Followers of "blanchitsu" have no chill, both amateurs and in this case, the GW design team.

Blanchitsu is literally just JB's own models. Has been since the 80's. You're definitions are backwards.

 Rivetbull wrote:
I don’t think the candle is for vision at all. Most likely it is for the wax seals on his messages he sends off on his little feathery friends. How far is a candle going to illuminate anything anyway. Would’t it be a torch if it was to be able to see by?

Surely people have been using candles for illumination for ages? Albeit typically enclosed in a lantern of sorts for outdoor use; otherwise it's likely to blow out within moments. From experience, you also don't want to be carrying a delicate open flame when you've got a cat walking near your legs. I like the idea that it's also for wax seals though; would be nice if he had a seal ring.

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:

 Rivetbull wrote:
I don’t think the candle is for vision at all. Most likely it is for the wax seals on his messages he sends off on his little feathery friends. How far is a candle going to illuminate anything anyway. Would’t it be a torch if it was to be able to see by?

Surely people have been using candles for illumination for ages? Albeit typically enclosed in a lantern of sorts for outdoor use; otherwise it's likely to blow out within moments. From experience, you also don't want to be carrying a delicate open flame when you've got a cat walking near your legs. I like the idea that it's also for wax seals though; would be nice if he had a seal ring.

Aos Candle...Its made with grindark wax so it doesn't go out and probably causes d3 mortal wounds

Well thats not a cool model, its just a collection of pets stuck on top of a mini.

As for Blanche, not a fan, little to no technical finesse spread through decades of the same old same. Stagnant, no evolution in quality, trapped in technical basic shortcomings not expected from a veteran artist... Bonner, Karl etc well they started small too but look where they are now technically. Light years ahead.
Its sad actually when blanche good ideas are never going to fly above the napkin scribble.

I think he's fine, also he's a bad guy, and being an elite/boss kinda guy you won't be seeing him all that much.

Now having heroes models that you don't like on the other hand is a different matter. Since you'll be looking at them the entire time.

The candle is a Dickensian flourish and is peak Warhammer. I can't believe people have a problem with such a detail.

I don't think it looks too bad... except the beam of wood.

What makes these models unpalatable for me is putting 28/32/35mm (whatever GW claims to be these days) on dinner plate sized bases.

Love all the models so far, hopefully they can continue that way, looks very promising!

JSG wrote:
The candle is a Dickensian flourish and is peak Warhammer. I can't believe people have a problem with such a detail.

Even a bit of a throwback to the old Mordheim warlock with his bizarro wooden (!?) collar with candles on skulls on top and various PostIts parchment notes attached everywhere. Only two critters, though, the frog on his shoulder and whatever is in his backpack. Here's one on CMON: http://www.coolminiornot.com/207370

He'd be a 10/10 from if he didn't have the bat or the wolf. I wonder how ungodly hard It's gonna be to remove those

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
He'd be a 10/10 from if he didn't have the bat or the wolf. I wonder how ungodly hard It's gonna be to remove those

Removing that bat will be super easy. Wolf..depends on if hes part of the base or not

Brought way too many many pets with you my friend. You look like an old crazy Dr Doolittle

Not to challenge other opinions, but once again I’m wondering if we’re all looking at the same model.

It’s...not busy at all. The dude himself is pretty simplistic. Yes there’s a lot to see, but that doesn’t make him an overly busy model?

Looks great, but man do I not like trying to paint writing onto the pieces of paper or books they put on the miniatures.

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
Looks great, but man do I not like trying to paint writing onto the pieces of paper or books they put on the miniatures.

A large 'Kick me' on the one at the back will do it.

I like him- nicely creepy and strange, love all the little critters around him as well, plenty of character, nice narrative around him too and not just a straight forward Necromancer either. Cursed City is looking really good to me model-wise so far, looking forward to seeing the rest soon.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Not to challenge other opinions, but once again I’m wondering if we’re all looking at the same model.

It’s...not busy at all. The dude himself is pretty simplistic. Yes there’s a lot to see, but that doesn’t make him an overly busy model?

I’m not sure I’m particularly keen on him. Don’t hate it, but not wowed.

But either way, I don’t think it looks busy, just yeah lots there to take in.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
What is with people dressing up as boats in this city?

Vampirates confirmed?!?!

 lord_blackfang wrote:
What is with people dressing up as boats in this city?

Props to the folks who guessed that one of the factions will be an animal menagerie.

Boat Mormons, obviously. Maybe GW will also make a model to represent Denouncing Venice?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Not to challenge other opinions, but once again I’m wondering if we’re all looking at the same model.

It’s...not busy at all. The dude himself is pretty simplistic. Yes there’s a lot to see, but that doesn’t make him an overly busy model?

I'm with you. Between improbable/impractical posing and busyness I'm often quite critical of GW's releases, but I don't see anything particularly wrong with this guy. He'll make a grand necromancer. With the right paintjob he called also work as a lore of beasts wizard (for those still playing WFB, I've no idea if LoB is a thing in AoS).

I think he looks fine, except his hands, which look like the plastic casting/design hasn't advanced in the last decade.

*squees at an inaudible pitch*

Not sold on a couple of the heroes, but everything else looks boss.

So is the objective in Quest to kill enough bad guys and take their wood to build a boat? Or do they just voltron up into a boat and you have to fight the boat?

Take my money.

The game uses squares, not hexes. I know people were worried it would be the latter.

Edit: Also, the big boss is an ogor? Cool

The Wolf is a Vampire Ogre.

Buying the novel gives you rules for a ninth hero? Maybe the death wizard on the front of it? The mask guy doesn't have a scythe (and has mask on)

Gotrek in all likelihood.

Cursed city website is updated with all the reveals

Oh great, the die for illiterate people made a return.

Look like it's gonna be another "rolling for crit" adventure.

I love how this box expands our window into the realms with all these miniatures from different factions and cultures.

Looks like there's a sundial or some sort of mechanic. 12 slots, for 12 hours/turns? I'm guessing the stuff gets harder to kill when the sun goes down

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I love how this box expands our window into the realms with all these miniatures from different factions and cultures.

It does, but it underlines something that has always been a problem with GW/AoS...the stuff they keep mentioning/teasing is much more interesting than their main fare. Reading AoS lore, I'd MUCH rather play a game set in age of myth, with magical Aqshian lasers and mechanical golem races from chamon, or at least the floating city soldiers than stormcast and elves, but with funny helmets.In this case, I'd rather see a whole army of cossack-themed ogres over just the old ogres with "they worship gork, but he's hangry" lore.

https://ageofsigmar.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2021/02/CursedCity_AllVillans.png

All the baddies!

The zombies are so well done. Several (probably all of them) have the same marking that the Grave digger dude has (he also a totem on his belt in the style.)

One grave doesn't say "rip" or anything, at least not in English. The writing is the same that you see on ruins and stormcast robes.

Finally, the coolest detail imo is one guy has a grave that has his face on it, before his death. You can tell its him, even though he's missing his wig, since he has the same pointy beard

The tiles echo original Quest very well.

42 enemies..

10 skeletons, 10 zombies.
6 animals, 3 vampire, 2 ogres,
5 characters.
What 6 am I missing..?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or is it 6 rats 6 bats?
They might be doubled?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It’s two sets of 5 for skeletons and zombies, as some poses match..
So likely that..

Shame they, to my surprise, missed the chance to just include new full unit sprues. We've got BSF style mixed sprues with a few head options for the duplicated models.

There's more bats/rats show in the picture of the full game laid out

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Shame they, to my surprise, missed the chance to just include new full unit sprues. We've got BSF style mixed sprues with a few head options for the duplicated models.

I thought for sure that skeleton sprue would be five on it, with the extra bits.
Perfect unit to sell there

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Shame they, to my surprise, missed the chance to just include new full unit sprues. We've got BSF style mixed sprues with a few head options for the duplicated models.

Are we not though? Zombies and skeletons look like units, even if we're getting half units doubled. Bats and rats are like the Chaos monsters that come in Warcry.

They also forgot to put the skelly banner in the group shot, didn't they?

 lord_blackfang wrote:
They also forgot to put the skelly banner in the group shot, didn't they?

Nope it's there bottom left 1 in

Looks like we will get 2 of the same sprue with 5 zombies and 4? skeletons (with alt heads) on it - the skeleton banner and skeleton with sword out in right hand (right side of picture) are unique. The other sprues will be unique.

did they talk about the gameplay in the stream?

the Warhammer Quest games are pretty shallow games and I'm hoping they can build on what they tried with Blackstone...

do we know if there's a 4vs1 mode? it's kind of a must have for dungeon crawlers and more competitive minded players (basically the Warhammer crowd duh)

Zombies are an exact build of 5 no options.
But with the skeletons and options, that could easily be a little set.

 DaveC wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
They also forgot to put the skelly banner in the group shot, didn't they?

Nope it's there bottom left 1 in

Looks like we will get 2 of the same sprue with 5 zombies and 4? skeletons on it and the other sprues will be unique.

5 Skeletons too, they’re all doubled poses.

Im so happy with this release! I have been sculpting my own fell-giant bats and this box just fits my current projects like a glove! Its one of those occasions when all planets align

Game appeared to have the same initiative track as BSF.

Danny76 wrote:
Zombies are an exact build of 5 no options.
But with the skeletons and options, that could easily be a little set.

There are some options on the zombies.

It was probably more efficient to cut the moulds with a mix of models, rather than trying to separate them. And Skellies are coming to AoS anyway, so no big loss here.

I do hope the heroes and villains will be available separately though. I dread buying four boxes of this to get my hands on everything I need in sufficient quantities.

The bodies of the last two skeletons are the same.
With a unique front piece, and arms for banner on one


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 ImAGeek wrote:

Danny76 wrote:
Zombies are an exact build of 5 no options.
But with the skeletons and options, that could easily be a little set.

There are some options on the zombies.

They looked exactly the same to me.
To the tombstone tops each as well. But I didn’t look super carefully

Danny76 wrote:
The bodies of the last two skeletons are the same.
With a unique front piece, and arms for banner on one


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ImAGeek wrote:

Danny76 wrote:
Zombies are an exact build of 5 no options.
But with the skeletons and options, that could easily be a little set.

There are some options on the zombies.

They looked exactly the same to me.
To the tombstone tops each as well. But I didn’t look super carefully

A couple have the same body but different tombstones/heads.

 RedFox wrote:
did they talk about the gameplay in the stream?

the Warhammer Quest games are pretty shallow games and I'm hoping they can build on what they tried with Blackstone...

do we know if there's a 4vs1 mode? it's kind of a must have for dungeon crawlers and more competitive minded players (basically the Warhammer crowd duh)

They said it's based on BSF and the fighter cards we saw looked pretty similar. BSF has rules for a gamemaster of sorts who controls the baddies instead of using their behavior tables, I wouldn't expect that to go away.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 DaveC wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
They also forgot to put the skelly banner in the group shot, didn't they?

Nope it's there bottom left 1 in

Looks like we will get 2 of the same sprue with 5 zombies and 4? skeletons on it and the other sprues will be unique.

5 Skeletons too, they’re all doubled poses.

The banner and the guy on the right with his sword out to his right are unique that's why I think it's 4 skeletons doubled with head options.

 DaveC wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 DaveC wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
They also forgot to put the skelly banner in the group shot, didn't they?

Nope it's there bottom left 1 in

Looks like we will get 2 of the same sprue with 5 zombies and 4? skeletons on it and the other sprues will be unique.

5 Skeletons too, they’re all doubled poses.

The banner and the guy on the right with his sword out to his right are unique that's why I think it's 4 skeletons dubled with head options.

They’re the same body with different fronts.

Just noticed that now banner swaps for sword

 ImAGeek wrote:

 DaveC wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 DaveC wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
They also forgot to put the skelly banner in the group shot, didn't they?

Nope it's there bottom left 1 in

Looks like we will get 2 of the same sprue with 5 zombies and 4? skeletons on it and the other sprues will be unique.

5 Skeletons too, they’re all doubled poses.

The banner and the guy on the right with his sword out to his right are unique that's why I think it's 4 skeletons dubled with head options.

They’re the same body with different fronts.

Bottom left and top right match here.

Looks like we get the command half of a unit box of skeletons twice, and a non-command half of zombies, if they even have a champion. The two zombie females can swap bottom and top halves, the other three look like they can only be built one way.

 DaveC wrote:
Just noticed that now banner swaps for sword

The right leg and tattered cloth is part of that piece too it seems.

If only the heroes got "options".

GW still hasn't evolve to that state yet.

Very exciting - but I hope the Underworlds vampire set will get statted out as potential adversaries - they would be a perfect fit. Also that new Nighthaunt character. I can see the potential for exapnsion sets right off the bat, but would like to see that warband front and centre.

 ImAGeek wrote:

Danny76 wrote:
The bodies of the last two skeletons are the same.
With a unique front piece, and arms for banner on one


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ImAGeek wrote:

Danny76 wrote:
Zombies are an exact build of 5 no options.
But with the skeletons and options, that could easily be a little set.

There are some options on the zombies.

They looked exactly the same to me.
To the tombstone tops each as well. But I didn’t look super carefully

A couple have the same body but different tombstones/heads.

Yeah I saw.
Just 10 bottoms and 10 tops though. Not alternate choices, which is a shame..

I saw someone said only the female legs are swapped.
But you can see two of the fellas have swapped legs too (they’re facing different directions to make it harder to tell..)

Next topic: the featureless, plain text cards that look like someone accidentally sent their playtest draft made in MS Word to print.

But the skeletons have sword and spear options, right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:


Next topic: the featureless, plain text cards that look like someone accidentally sent their playtest draft made in MS Word to print.

Whats that at the back, directly under the bat swarm? Looks like individual rats, or something. Maybe some sort of "kill the king" rat for a mission?

Clockpunk wrote:
Very exciting - but I hope the Underworlds vampire set will get statted out as potential adversaries - they would be a perfect fit. Also that new Nighthaunt character. I can see the potential for exapnsion sets right off the bat, but would like to see that warband front and centre.

I can see Underworld warbands getting a shiny new repackage with quest cards etc.

 GaroRobe wrote:
But the skeletons have sword and spear options, right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:


Next topic: the featureless, plain text cards that look like someone accidentally sent their playtest draft made in MS Word to print.

Whats that at the back, directly under the bat swarm? Looks like individual rats, or something. Maybe some sort of "kill the king" rat for a mission?

Yeah so they have the same body then a choice of weapon. Great if it is all on one sprue..

Yeah, it's a real travesty they don't do something with those cards. More flavor text, some spot illustrations... something.

They could make them look like they're written on tattered parchment, evocative borders... there's a lack of pizzazz to them for a game that wants to really ooze out theme.

They're almost certainly click-build, like Blackstone was, so zero options would be my guess. Just ten semi-unique sculpts.

 GaroRobe wrote:
Whats that at the back, directly under the bat swarm? Looks like individual rats, or something. Maybe some sort of "kill the king" rat for a mission?

Not rats - their tails(?) aren't the right colour, dark with a light tip. The figure between the skeletons and big bat swarm has something similar going on. Several yet-unseen smaller critters around there.

Cronch wrote:
They're almost certainly click-build, like Blackstone was, so zero options would be my guess. Just ten semi-unique sculpts.

For what?
We know the skeletons have alternate pieces to build with.
It’s in the pictures

Welp! This is gunna get expensive for me. Another whole boardgame of minis I can throw into my "to do" pile.

Guess I better hurry up and finish all these other projects.

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:
Whats that at the back, directly under the bat swarm? Looks like individual rats, or something. Maybe some sort of "kill the king" rat for a mission?

Not rats - their tails(?) aren't the right colour, dark with a light tip. The figure between the skeletons and big bat swarm has something similar going on. Several yet-unseen smaller critters around there.

It’s probably one of the 10 objectives..

Snap fit plastics are the best for this type of box sets if you ask me. Its a contained box set with plenty of unique sculpts no need for 20 head options for each mini.

Imagine if GW decided to do a modular plastic dungeon like dwarven forge resins... it would be a killer!

How well did the "AI" work in Blackstone? I seem to remember people weren't all that impressed but this game would be more interesting if you and all your friends could play co-op rather than have a GM of sorts IMO. If it squanders the experience however then it's probably better that someone just takes the plunge and plays the bad boys.

Danny76 wrote:

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:
Whats that at the back, directly under the bat swarm? Looks like individual rats, or something. Maybe some sort of "kill the king" rat for a mission?

Not rats - their tails(?) aren't the right colour, dark with a light tip. The figure between the skeletons and big bat swarm has something similar going on. Several yet-unseen smaller critters around there.

It’s probably one of the 10 objectives..

I think you're right. Since you can see five on the board, and two off to the side. Looks like two are zombie cats

 NAVARRO wrote:
Snap fit plastics are the best for this type of box sets if you ask me. Its a contained box set with plenty of unique sculpts no need for 20 head options for each mini.

Imagine if GW decided to do a modular plastic dungeon like dwarven forge resins... it would be a killer!

And has no bearing on whether it will get releases as a kit separate.
The ghost boys kit was just that wasn’t it. From soul wars. Released separately..

But yeah I’d say it’s, a sprue Of 5, with let’s say 15 pieces, where 5 front/back pieces are alternates to go with 5 others.
So each model has three pieces, and you use two.
(Some you can see it’s the from duplicated, some it’s the back.)

Obviously banner guy or whoever might be more than 3 pieces. But for simplicity, you know what I mean..


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 GaroRobe wrote:

Danny76 wrote:

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:
Whats that at the back, directly under the bat swarm? Looks like individual rats, or something. Maybe some sort of "kill the king" rat for a mission?

Not rats - their tails(?) aren't the right colour, dark with a light tip. The figure between the skeletons and big bat swarm has something similar going on. Several yet-unseen smaller critters around there.

It’s probably one of the 10 objectives..

I think you're right. Since you can see five on the board, and two off to the side. Looks like two are zombie cats

Yeah thats my thinking.
And those yeah perhaps are the cats.

I’m not convinced the wolf on animal mans base is a cat, like people keep saying.
Mainly as it’s clearly a wolf

So I'm definitely going to have to add some terrain to the side of these boards, just to give it some 3D imagery. Perhaps the mausoleum will be a great piece to start with.

PiñaColada wrote:
How well did the "AI" work in Blackstone? I seem to remember people weren't all that impressed but this game would be more interesting if you and all your friends could play co-op rather than have a GM of sorts IMO. If it squanders the experience however then it's probably better that someone just takes the plunge and plays the bad boys.

Dice roll and flowchart with the usual range from "rush into gunfire" to "fall back for no reason".

Danny76 wrote:
42 enemies..

10 skeletons, 10 zombies.
6 animals, 3 vampire, 2 ogres,
5 characters.
What 6 am I missing..?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or is it 6 rats 6 bats?
They might be doubled?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It’s two sets of 5 for skeletons and zombies, as some poses match..
So likely that..

If you literally just looked at the image you'd see that's not true and all ten have unique poses

To me this looks fantastic. Love all the models, especially the heroes. And the game looks pretty great as well. As mentioned I’m a bit disappointed in the lack of art on some of the cards, but I’ll have to judge it when it’s in my grubby mitts.

I’m currently trying to push $20 bills through my monitor but they’re not going in, and the game is likewise for some reason not coming out. Gonna contact GW customer service and see what’s wrong.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

Danny76 wrote:
42 enemies..

10 skeletons, 10 zombies.
6 animals, 3 vampire, 2 ogres,
5 characters.
What 6 am I missing..?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or is it 6 rats 6 bats?
They might be doubled?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It’s two sets of 5 for skeletons and zombies, as some poses match..
So likely that..

If you literally just looked at the image you'd see that's not true and all ten have unique poses

No they don’t. Both the skeletons and zombies are 5 poses with different parts to make them look different. That’s exactly how a lot of these board game sprues work (Blackstone Fortress was exactly the same, 2 repeated sprues for the baddies with extra parts to differentiate them). Glass houses and all that...

 lord_blackfang wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:
How well did the "AI" work in Blackstone? I seem to remember people weren't all that impressed but this game would be more interesting if you and all your friends could play co-op rather than have a GM of sorts IMO. If it squanders the experience however then it's probably better that someone just takes the plunge and plays the bad boys.

Dice roll and flowchart with the usual range from "rush into gunfire" to "fall back for no reason".

It's not contextual at all? Like, this bruiser is already in melee range so he'll stay there and swing? Are there unique charts for the different datasheets or a one-size fits none situation? If it ends up being that simplistic then that doesn't sound too tempting...

So was it fun to play the GM or did you just feel like you're missing out on the real game?

Skeletons and vampire/werewolf guys are very cool. A couple of the heroes are cool.

Balancing act zombies look stupid.

The rest are pretty meh. The components look downright lazy.

I have zero faith that GW can deliver anything better than a barely passable dice chucker in terms of gameplay experience.

I'll pass unless the price is downright reasonable.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

Danny76 wrote:
42 enemies..

10 skeletons, 10 zombies.
6 animals, 3 vampire, 2 ogres,
5 characters.
What 6 am I missing..?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or is it 6 rats 6 bats?
They might be doubled?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It’s two sets of 5 for skeletons and zombies, as some poses match..
So likely that..

If you literally just looked at the image you'd see that's not true and all ten have unique poses

No they don’t. Both the skeletons and zombies are 5 poses with different parts to make them look different. That’s exactly how a lot of these board game sprues work (Blackstone Fortress was exactly the same, 2 repeated sprues for the baddies with extra parts to differentiate them). Glass houses and all that...

Indeed so.

And the 2 sets of 5 was in answer to a post above me.
But yeah see my last post explaining all the poses and how they come together.
With perhaps less attitude too..

I didn't get BSF, though I have watched Ash at GMG play a bunch of it, and seen other reviews, and it's been pretty widely approved of. Silver Tower was tedious and lame, but they've clearly brought the game a long ways. I wasn't sold on the symbol dice at first, but I mean, using a D6 ain't exactly calculus.

Was there any dates announced?

No.
Within three months as always.

But with the full reveal.
I’d say preorder March 13th.
(As we know releases up to then)

Looks fantastic!
I think, sculpt-wise, the heroes have the edge on the baddies (That Ogre Merc...), but there's a lot of gems in the box.