Does anyone here have any experience with the glock 42? My wife is really considering buying one for carry and outside of it being a glock and in. .380 I have nothing on it
KingCracker wrote: Does anyone here have any experience with the glock 42? My wife is really considering buying one for carry and outside of it being a glock and in. .380 I have nothing on it
I don't think I'm going to be able to contribute any great unknown ideas here but:
I think Glocks are well manufactured and reliable pistols that in theory I wouldn't hesitate to own or carry, but in practice I never would because they feel funny in my hand, so if it feels right to her I think they are great guns.
I don't think .380 is an adequate round for self defense, but a .380 in the hand beats nothing in the hand, too. Glock 43 (9mm) is very similar in size to a Glock 42. 9mm is the smallest size I'd carry.
KingCracker wrote: Does anyone here have any experience with the glock 42? My wife is really considering buying one for carry and outside of it being a glock and in. .380 I have nothing on it
Do a google search for glock 42 issue. Some interesting stuff comes up. I never went glock because in the 80's early 90's I knew a few people with glocks who had the front sight fall off. I don't think that has been an issue for decades now. I have been intrigued by the glock 43, but have not pulled the trigger on that one yet.
KingCracker wrote: Does anyone here have any experience with the glock 42? My wife is really considering buying one for carry and outside of it being a glock and in. .380 I have nothing on it
Son2 has one which is his carry piece. He likes it a lot. I'm not .380 fan, but I guess with the right rounds it is okay.
KingCracker wrote: Does anyone here have any experience with the glock 42? My wife is really considering buying one for carry and outside of it being a glock and in. .380 I have nothing on it
Son2 has one which is his carry piece. He likes it a lot. I'm not .380 fan, but I guess with the right rounds it is okay.
Do you have any solid recommendations on rounds? I've seen a few ballistic gel tests were .380 HPJs were no better than FMJs
For .380 I would consider Hornady Critical defense. It's a 90 grain FTX bullet with about 1000fps Muzzle velocity. It is sort of a rubber filled hollow point. They run well in my bodyguard .380.
Does anyone here know a lot about Japanese Arisakas? I'm more of an Enfield and Mauser guy so I'm having a tough time giving a friend of mine a fair value on the one he's trying to sell for his father.
It's a Type 99 with Kokura markings and is a series 21. It has its original monopod, dust cover, cleaning rod, and it has an unground mum.
I am thinking of buying it since it is the last thing I need to complete a WW2 rifle collection of mine. I just don't want to low ball him or over charge myself.
Sounds about as complete as you'll find one, which isn't very common at all. Been a while since I looked into Arisakas but I'd probably expect about $400 to be a fair price. I'm more into Enfields though so don't take that estimate as gospel by any means.
Nostromodamus wrote: Sounds about as complete as you'll find one, which isn't very common at all. Been a while since I looked into Arisakas but I'd probably expect about $400 to be a fair price. I'm more into Enfields though so don't take that estimate as gospel by any means.
I paid around two hundred bucks for mine, in outstanding condition. But mine didn't come with all the original goodies and the Imperial Seal is half-grounded off.
The real costs for the Type 99 is the ammo. 7.7mm is next to impossible to find since Norma discontinued that cartridge. So, it's handloading or bust.
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Insurgency Walker wrote: For .380 I would consider Hornady Critical defense. It's a 90 grain FTX bullet with about 1000fps Muzzle velocity. It is sort of a rubber filled hollow point. They run well in my bodyguard .380.
Critical Defense is a good recommendation for smaller caliber defensive handguns.
I paid around two hundred bucks for mine, in outstanding condition. But mine didn't come with all the original goodies and the Imperial Seal is half-grounded off.
Thats how you got it for only $200
Original monopod, AA sights, cleaning rod and intact mum command a premium.
I'm pretty sure iraqveteran8888 did a video on the Arisaka and tried to kill it. Pretty tough gun from what I remember.
As to my question on the Glock. My wife wants something with low recoil and want a fan of the 9mm, specially in a concealable pistol it was too poppy for her taste. She likes the .380 and handles it well in a small pistol. I was mostly wondering about performance with the thing is all I don't want her to let a junky pistol be what she relies on
I have a suggestion for a concealed carry .380 auto. Have you thought about a Taurus TCP (also known as a 738)? I bought one for my wife.
I know you might be wary of a Taurus. I was, and I admit that some of their semi-autos are "less than reliable" to say the least. However, the basic design isn't theirs. This gun is reliable. So is my Taurus 709 slim.
I preferred the feel of the TCP over a Glock. It is tiny, has a last round slide hold-open, a manual hold-open, and if you look around you can buy one for around $200. There are some aftermarket magazines for it, and oddly enough Promag makes a reliable magazine that holds 10 rounds.
The basic design is also shared with a Kel Tech, and a Ruger pistol. They are so similar many of the parts are interchangeable. If you care to do the work you can easily modify Ruger magazines to fit the TCP, or use extensions meant for the Ruger on TCP magazines. There are some 15 round Ruger mags out there. Obviously this would primarily be for target shooting, but hey, reloading is a pain.
Other options include a Stainless steel slide, mulit-colored polymer lowers, and an add-on laser sight that slips on over the trigger guard.
I have a sig p380 and I love it. I just carry it in my pocket and can basically take it anywhere unencumbered in any way. It shoots great out to 50 feet. It's basically a super compact 1911. They make a 9mm version but the added size - though small is noticeable in a pocket.
KingCracker wrote: Does anyone here have any experience with the glock 42? My wife is really considering buying one for carry and outside of it being a glock and in. .380 I have nothing on it
If its a locked breech action and not direct blowback action thats a better style of lockup than many .380s (softer felt recoil). Else I'd recommend a Glock 26 or comparables from other manufacturers. Glock sites are junk though, so you might consider different sights (fiber optic or tritium) or the XD variant with fiber optic sights.
For .380 I would consider Hornady Critical defense. It's a 90 grain FTX bullet with about 1000fps Muzzle velocity. It is sort of a rubber filled hollow point. They run well in my bodyguard .380.
Critical Duty tend to penetrate a bit more. Might think about that with a .380. Cor bons have good penetration too.
In ancient times we had alternating golden sabres and FMJs for the wife's .380.
Just be careful with anything from Cor-Bon. Their ammo tends to be loaded anywhere from upper-end +P to +P+ pressure levels. Make sure that your gun is rated for +P ammo before using it.
Nostromodamus wrote:Sounds about as complete as you'll find one, which isn't very common at all. Been a while since I looked into Arisakas but I'd probably expect about $400 to be a fair price. I'm more into Enfields though so don't take that estimate as gospel by any means.
Slinky wrote:Does sound good - if you get it, please show pics!
Still no news on that Arisaka but if I do in fact buy it I will for sure get some pictures up. I should have my photobucket account still . I did however buy a new US built LE Glock 21. I have been having way too much fun with that thing . I also bought and paid the tax stamp for a SilencerCo Hybrid suppressor. These next 7 months need to go by quick so I can pop that can on my 21!
Back to the current topic. Critical Duty/Defense is some good ammo for the 380. Its low enough pressure to not blow up modern 380s and still packs a nice punch. I have shot Critical Duty/Defense out of my 38 J frame, my Glock 19 and even my 9x18 Makarov with no problems.
yellowfever wrote: I was told the tax Stamps are averaging about 3 months now.
SBRs are averaging 3 months for form 1 eforms. Suppressors have to be done by hand on form 4s so its taking a little longer. The shop I got mine from said the average wait for a suppressor as of now is about 4-5 months, but to expect 6-7 just so I don't get too excited after the 4th and 5th month passes by. My friends took 5 months, got the tax stamp filed in October last year and got it back last week.
Just be careful with anything from Cor-Bon. Their ammo tends to be loaded anywhere from upper-end +P to +P+ pressure levels. Make sure that your gun is rated for +P ammo before using it.
A very good point. I am not a fan of "+p" rounds. Shoot what the firearm is designed for.
yellowfever wrote: That makes sense. I was talking to the gun shop owner about doing a tax stamp to SBR my scorpion. I didn't the waits were different.
Yeah, the ATF has different departments that take care of Form 1s and Form 4s. If you do get your Scorpion SBRed, there is a couple ways of doing it. First you can file as an Individual, which will require finger prints and a photo, and depending on where you live you need to have the sheriffs sign you off. The other option is to get a Living Trust Agreement, which is what I did. At the current moment the Trust lets you file your tax stamp online and waves the finger prints and photo. That is going to change in July this year. You also file the Form 1 as a Corporation rather than an individual which gives you some benefits. The Trust allows you to have more than one person on file so they all can legally use the item, no one owns the NFA item, the Trust owns it so make sure you trust the people on the Trust. People can also be added or removed whenever you want. A Trust also protects the NFA item if something were to happen to you, any other person on the list can take possession of the item so you don't lose it. As an individual, if something were to happen to you the item would be confiscated since you are the only one on the registered tax stamp.
Heck yeah . I really want a Scorpion but I am going to have Parabellum Combat Systems build me a MP5K instead. I can only justify buying one more gun this year and the MP5K has been one of me dreams for a long time . I also want a Kriss Vector in 45 because of my new Glock 21 but that is going to have to wait until next year.
While in theory I like the idea of a Kriss Vector, the money issue is huge. Frankly, I'd rather get something from Masterpiece Arms. For the price of one Kriss Vector you can have three MPA mac-11 or Mac-10 style pistols or rifles. Unlike other clones of the Mac 11 or Mac-10 Masterpiece arms actually produces a quality product.
I have one of their Mac-11 clones in 9mm. It is a wonderfully tough gun and remarkably accurate. While not quite as easy as the Kriss Vector to break down it is still simple. If you want Sten Mags they are still cheap and in abundance. They also make a version that accepts Glock Mags.
You just have to accept that you look like an 80's gangster when you shoot one.
There are some pretty great upper receiver replacements for MAC-11's and 10's that function and look way better than the originals, they just are about $800 on their own however.
That said, if one were looking to get into entry level machineguns, a 9mm Mac-11 with a LAGE upper would be sweet.
I bought my MPA30 (mac-11 clone in 9mm) while it was on sale on grabagun.com. It was only $330 at the time. Side cocker, 6 inch barrel, adjustable sights, railed top, enlarged grip, enlarged mag release, underside picatinny rail forward of the trigger, and a threaded barrel. I added a muzzle brake on it just for the look, but it does work great.
I think that the biggest thing this gun brings to the table is reliability. I have intentionally tried to jam this thing. I have mixed mags with hollow points, FMJ, lead round nose, reloads, brass case, steel case, aluminum case, +p rounds (it's rated for it), and every combination you can think of. It has chewed-up and spit it all out. It has never jammed in any weather condition from -10 degrees to 110 degrees.
I've been thinking of either getting the carbine upper for it or just getting a whole new gun, hard to decide.
cuda1179 wrote: While in theory I like the idea of a Kriss Vector, the money issue is huge. Frankly, I'd rather get something from Masterpiece Arms. For the price of one Kriss Vector you can have three MPA mac-11 or Mac-10 style pistols or rifles. Unlike other clones of the Mac 11 or Mac-10 Masterpiece arms actually produces a quality product.
I have one of their Mac-11 clones in 9mm. It is a wonderfully tough gun and remarkably accurate. While not quite as easy as the Kriss Vector to break down it is still simple. If you want Sten Mags they are still cheap and in abundance. They also make a version that accepts Glock Mags.
You just have to accept that you look like an 80's gangster when you shoot one.
There is a lot to be said about the M11, and I really like them. However the money part is not a huge problem for me, so the Vector is in my list. Collecting guns is a huge hobby of mine and I don't skimp out on something I really want. I do plan to get a M11 in the foreseeable future but mine will run somewhere between $4000-$5000. As Vaktathi has mentioned, the M11 is a great stepping stone into the MG world. Many buy M11s so they can have their fun, legal full auto, then when they save up some extra cash they sell it to buy something along the lines of a FNC for $9000-$15000. Then you can sell it to buy a $20000 HK full auto sear.
Masterpiece Arms makes some surprisingly quality firearms. They are the MKE of the MP5 world. They both make good quality products for way less then the originals or the guys who use real parts on real equipment.
Masterpiece has had some quality control issues. However, most of the problems you will see from the semi auto M11s and the semi auto Uzi are because the guns were originally designed to fire from an open bolt in full auto. To make it legal for the civilian market companies has to completely redesign the gun to shoot from a closed bolt. Most of the problems in reviews are thing you will see in most all semi auto SMGs, for instance, my Auto Ordnance Thompson. They tend to jam a lot which is normal because the magazines have light springs. Sometimes they fail to extract other times they get light primer strikes because the gun was designed to have the weight of the bolt hit the primer as well.
This is why I like Parabellum Combat Systems over MKE for MP5s. Most of the problems with the cheaper after market version is because the company does not take the time to refine the firearm and fit it to accept the semi auto configuration. This is also why I built my own Uzi over buying one of the Century Arms or Vector Arms versions. The Kriss Vector is a new firearm made by Kriss itself. That's why you pay $1500 dollars for one. Same with the CZ Evo, the companies are still producing new firearms and taking the time to make them right.
When I say that Masterpiece and MKE make surprisingly quality, I mean that the guns looks good and are good plinkers, fun range toys. They are not guns I would use for a real life defense situation.
Ruberu wrote: The other option is to get a Living Trust Agreement, which is what I did. At the current moment the Trust lets you file your tax stamp online and waves the finger prints and photo. That is going to change in July this year. You also file the Form 1 as a Corporation rather than an individual which gives you some benefits. The Trust allows you to have more than one person on file so they all can legally use the item, no one owns the NFA item, the Trust owns it so make sure you trust the people on the Trust. People can also be added or removed whenever you want. A Trust also protects the NFA item if something were to happen to you, any other person on the list can take possession of the item so you don't lose it. As an individual, if something were to happen to you the item would be confiscated since you are the only one on the registered tax stamp.
Are those sites that charge you $80 to set it up worth it, or is it some simple paperwork you can do yourself?
Ouze wrote: Iowa is going to legalize suppressors tomorrow, it looks like, so it's time for me to play the ATF fun-a-coaster game.
?
I know you have to pay that tax-stamp... but, does it need to be *registered* with the ATF as well?
Yes, the serial numbers are registered. As a matter of fact, I believe step 1 of buying a suppressor as an individual is purchasing the suppressor so you can put the serial number on the paperwork; but you can't take physical ownership until it's all done, it must remain with the dealer.
Ruberu wrote: The other option is to get a Living Trust Agreement, which is what I did. At the current moment the Trust lets you file your tax stamp online and waves the finger prints and photo. That is going to change in July this year. You also file the Form 1 as a Corporation rather than an individual which gives you some benefits. The Trust allows you to have more than one person on file so they all can legally use the item, no one owns the NFA item, the Trust owns it so make sure you trust the people on the Trust. People can also be added or removed whenever you want. A Trust also protects the NFA item if something were to happen to you, any other person on the list can take possession of the item so you don't lose it. As an individual, if something were to happen to you the item would be confiscated since you are the only one on the registered tax stamp.
Are those sites that charge you $80 to set it up worth it, or is it some simple paperwork you can do yourself?
Ouze wrote: Iowa is going to legalize suppressors tomorrow, it looks like, so it's time for me to play the ATF fun-a-coaster game.
?
I know you have to pay that tax-stamp... but, does it need to be *registered* with the ATF as well?
Yes, the serial numbers are registered. As a matter of fact, I believe step 1 of buying a suppressor as an individual is purchasing the suppressor so you can put the serial number on the paperwork; but you can't take physical ownership until it's all done, it must remain with the dealer.
The paper work is fairly simple. I had a local law attorney set all of it up for me. I figured it was the safest way to ensure everything was done correctly.
Also, you are correct about the second part. You buy the suppressor and the Form 4 is filled with that suppressors serial number. Most of the places in my area that stock suppressors are also ranges so I can shoot my suppressor as much as I want, I just can't take it home until the tax stamp clears.
I doubt it helps with accuracy. It does help when you need to cull wild boar. You can get a few before the rest take off as opposed to one BANG, one dead hog and the rest scattering.
whembly wrote: Does the suppressors help with accuracy in your experience? Or, is it simply a luxury to shoot those weapons w/o the need for ear protection?
I wear hearing aids, so I don't need ear protection. I'll simply turn it off.
They don't really help with accuracy. From a handgun point of view they do help out a lot with follow up shots. The suppressor reduces the felt recoil making it easier to stay on target. My whole reason for suppressors is to not disturb the neighbors when we are shooting at my friends farm, his neighbor is anti gun and calls the cops on us.
Ruberu wrote: My whole reason for suppressors is to not disturb the neighbors when we are shooting at my friends farm, his neighbor is anti gun and calls the cops on us.
Maybe his neighbour needs to be charged with wasting police time then, rather than making you guys go through time and expense to persue a hobby you have every right to do on private property outside of city limits.
whembly wrote: Does the suppressors help with accuracy in your experience? Or, is it simply a luxury to shoot those weapons w/o the need for ear protection?
I wear hearing aids, so I don't need ear protection. I'll simply turn it off.
They don't really help with accuracy. From a handgun point of view they do help out a lot with follow up shots. The suppressor reduces the felt recoil making it easier to stay on target. My whole reason for suppressors is to not disturb the neighbors when we are shooting at my friends farm, his neighbor is anti gun and calls the cops on us.
Hey, I just noticed that you are in Omaha. I'm about 50 miles north-east of you. Ever care to get together and either throw some dice or spray out a couple thousand rounds of ammo?
I paid around two hundred bucks for mine, in outstanding condition. But mine didn't come with all the original goodies and the Imperial Seal is half-grounded off.
Thats how you got it for only $200
Original monopod, AA sights, cleaning rod and intact mum command a premium.
My Type 38 must have been new when grandpa grabbed it as a war trophy. Forget mum stamp, this still has the dust cover over the bolt, which was one of the first things to go (has a nasty tendency to catch your fingers if you work the action quickly, which led to them being frequently discarded in the field)
Finally got to the range to christen my M&P9C. Shot 400 rounds of FMJ American Eagle in one sitting. She performed flawlessly; no failure to feeds, no FTE, no stove pipes. The guys at the range were cool too it was quiet so they were not enforcing time limits, and I had a free pass to use too. I did find out that the large backstrap was better for my grip.
Very cool, my last handgun trip unfortunately ended very strangely. My PX4 hiccuped on like every 3rd round. Never had a single failure in that gun before, turns out it just really doesn't like Blazer Brass 9mm. Worked just fine with the steel-cased Winchester I brought.
Vaktathi wrote: Very cool, my last handgun trip unfortunately ended very strangely. My PX4 hiccuped on like every 3rd round. Never had a single failure in that gun before, turns out it just really doesn't like Blazer Brass 9mm. Worked just fine with the steel-cased Winchester I brought.
Got a Remngron 597 in an Archangel Stock at the weekend from my father in law. Tacticool .22 for the lulz! Looking forward to taking it to the range and putting a few hundred rounds through it, should be a fun blaster
Nostromodamus wrote: Got a Remngron 597 in an Archangel Stock at the weekend from my father in law. Tacticool .22 for the lulz! Looking forward to taking it to the range and putting a few hundred rounds through it, should be a fun blaster
I zeroed a red dot sight for our Colt Rimfire/Walther .22LR M4 Ops this past weekend and my 13 year old daughter blasted through 120 rounds. Got one of these:
The targets are about 2.5 inches and she was nailing them shot after shot at 25 meters (safe distance for the target). She really enjoyed it.
Dreadclaw69 wrote: Finally got to the range to christen my M&P9C. Shot 400 rounds of FMJ American Eagle in one sitting. She performed flawlessly; no failure to feeds, no FTE, no stove pipes. The guys at the range were cool too it was quiet so they were not enforcing time limits, and I had a free pass to use too. I did find out that the large backstrap was better for my grip.
Run about 600 rounds through it and the trigger will smooth out big time.
Note: full size mags also work very well with an M&Pc. They also have grip pads that slip on and replicate the full size grip of an M&P when you use it.
If I were carrying I'd note I have the mag with the pinkie extension loaded, with a full size spare with the grip pad.
Frazzled wrote: Run about 600 rounds through it and the trigger will smooth out big time.
Note: full size mags also work very well with an M&Pc. They also have grip pads that slip on and replicate the full size grip of an M&P when you use it.
If I were carrying I'd note I have the mag with the pinkie extension loaded, with a full size spare with the grip pad.
When the credit card resets later this month I may be looking at getting some more mags. If you were carrying it concealed would the longer mags make it more difficult?
Frazzled wrote: Run about 600 rounds through it and the trigger will smooth out big time.
Note: full size mags also work very well with an M&Pc. They also have grip pads that slip on and replicate the full size grip of an M&P when you use it.
If I were carrying I'd note I have the mag with the pinkie extension loaded, with a full size spare with the grip pad.
When the credit card resets later this month I may be looking at getting some more mags. If you were carrying it concealed would the longer mags make it more difficult?
For both my M&P 45c and Shield I use flush mags in the gun holstered at 3 o'clock, and larger capacity mags in a mag carrier at about 8 o'clock.
Even with pinkie extensions the concealability usually isn't a problem, especially with a quality holster that tucks the gun in tight to your body. Heck, even with the flush mag, my 45c is still probably longer than a 9c with extension and I have no concealment issues for most of the year. Summer is a bit tricky so that's when I switch to the Shield or LCR.
CptJake wrote: zeroed a red dot sight for our Colt Rimfire/Walther .22LR M4 Ops this past weekend and my 13 year old daughter blasted through 120 rounds. Got one of these:
I got a much smaller pistol target sort of like that. I hated it, if you hit it with a .45 ACP it would fall over reliably by the second shot, if that. It had these stakes that not matter how deeply you set them, 100% of the way in, would always just pop out again, at the minimum distance, with handgun ammo it was rated for (and indeed, the rounds just chipped the paint).
Finally I decided to see how it did against rifle rounds, which it was absolutely not rated for. It went exactly as I expected it would.
Spoiler:
Regular .223 would leave some pretty nice gouges, but XM855 went through it like it wasn't there. Ironically it stood up for all that abuse.
Frazzled wrote: Run about 600 rounds through it and the trigger will smooth out big time.
Note: full size mags also work very well with an M&Pc. They also have grip pads that slip on and replicate the full size grip of an M&P when you use it. If I were carrying I'd note I have the mag with the pinkie extension loaded, with a full size spare with the grip pad.
When the credit card resets later this month I may be looking at getting some more mags. If you were carrying it concealed would the longer mags make it more difficult?
A longer mag in pistol is slightly more difficult to conceal depending on the type of garment. If you are wearing a jacket or loose top shirt than there is no significant difference. I would personally have a full size mag as a spare mag. It helps balance the weight and not difficult to conceal.
So an M&Pc really has three mag options: 1. the flush mag-most concealable. neanderthals like me can't use well due to hand size. 2. mag with pinkie extension. Good for single hand shooting and free style. 3. full size mag with or without collar. Ok there is a 4th actually: 4) USPSA style full size mag with 10 round extension. I've been thinking about a Kel-Tec 2000 with two of these in a computer bag as a trunk gun. Supposedly they are coming out with an M&P compatible one this quarter.
CptJake wrote: zeroed a red dot sight for our Colt Rimfire/Walther .22LR M4 Ops this past weekend and my 13 year old daughter blasted through 120 rounds. Got one of these:
I got a much smaller pistol target sort of like that. I hated it, if you hit it with a .45 ACP it would fall over reliably by the second shot, if that. It had these stakes that not matter how deeply you set them, 100% of the way in, would always just pop out again, at the minimum distance, with handgun ammo it was rated for (and indeed, the rounds just chipped the paint).
Finally I decided to see how it did against rifle rounds, which it was absolutely not rated for. It went exactly as I expected it would.
Spoiler:
Regular .223 would leave some pretty nice gouges, but XM855 went through it like it wasn't there. Ironically it stood up for all that abuse.
Nostromodamus wrote: For both my M&P 45c and Shield I use flush mags in the gun holstered at 3 o'clock, and larger capacity mags in a mag carrier at about 8 o'clock.
Even with pinkie extensions the concealability usually isn't a problem, especially with a quality holster that tucks the gun in tight to your body. Heck, even with the flush mag, my 45c is still probably longer than a 9c with extension and I have no concealment issues for most of the year. Summer is a bit tricky so that's when I switch to the Shield or LCR.
My thinking so far is IWB at 4-4:30, and magazine dependent on clothing
Frazzled wrote: A longer mag in pistol is slightly more difficult to conceal depending on the type of garment. If you are wearing a jacket or loose top shirt than there is no significant difference.
I would personally have a full size mag as a spare mag. It helps balance the weight and not difficult to conceal.
So an M&Pc really has three mag options:
1. the flush mag-most concealable. neanderthals like me can't use well due to hand size.
2. mag with pinkie extension. Good for single hand shooting and free style.
3. full size mag with or without collar.
Ok there is a 4th actually:
4) USPSA style full size mag with 10 round extension. I've been thinking about a Kel-Tec 2000 with two of these in a computer bag as a trunk gun. Supposedly they are coming out with an M&P compatible one this quarter.
I was thinking about the posability of a full size M&P mag as a spare. Otherwise if I was to compromise and use that mag when carrying concealed I may as well be carrying a full size
As far as the Kel-Tec I think they are becoming harder to find, and I hear a lot of complaints about the ergonomics (and the process to strip and clean them)
A question for American dakka members: have any of you guys ever owned guns made by Cobray?
I watch the forgotten weapons channel on youtube ( being into historical wargames I'm curious to see how these old guns work) and while I was scrolling through the old videos, I came across some of these horrors!
Bloody hell! These are awful guns. I'm no expert but even I couldn't believe how impractical they were.
I hope none of my fellow dakka members ever owned one or thought about owing one!
That said, Cobray guns are pretty rare just because of how awful they were. I've seen a real Ladies Home Companion, but never shot any of them, much less owned any.
That said, Cobray guns are pretty rare just because of how awful they were. I've seen a real Ladies Home Companion, but never shot any of them, much less owned any.
Vaktathi wrote: Yeah, it's a PTR91 GI-R, a US built G3 clone with a pic-rail welded on Almost the same thing as a CETME.
I didnt realize just how much of a beast the charging handle was to operate
Yeah, on my HK it is tough too.
yeah...who did they think was gonna use these...Thor? Just chambering a round is a workout
I'm not a gun owner, nor do I have an interest in owning one, but if you're into military history or wargaming, it's interesting to see how these things functioned in real life, so channels like this are a good educational tool.
In saying that though, it makes my blood boil that I have to rely on damn Yankees to see how historical British guns worked
Yeah, Ian at Forgotten Weapons is great and does a wonderful job of covering stuff from all over the world. He mentioned hopefully getting to go the the Pattern Room in the UK to do some videos there eventually, and IIRC they started doing videos themselves very recently.
Well I'm a dual citizen, American/British, and have a small Lee Enfield collection along with a Webley, so hopefully that's a small victory in keeping Brit guns in Brit hands
Vaktathi wrote: Yeah, Ian at Forgotten Weapons is great and does a wonderful job of covering stuff from all over the world. He mentioned hopefully getting to go the the Pattern Room in the UK to do some videos there eventually, and IIRC they started doing videos themselves very recently.
Yeah, Ian is a good presenter, and it is a good channel to watch (hickok45 is another of my favourites) but Ian does tend to obsess over Japanese firearms too much for my liking!
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Nostromodamus wrote: Well I'm a dual citizen, American/British, and have a small Lee Enfield collection along with a Webley, so hopefully that's a small victory in keeping Brit guns in Brit hands
A man cannot serve two masters. Queen and country, or God Bless America. You can't be both...otherwise you end up Canadian
Nostromodamus wrote: Well I'm a dual citizen, American/British, and have a small Lee Enfield collection along with a Webley, so hopefully that's a small victory in keeping Brit guns in Brit hands
A man cannot serve two masters. Queen and country, or God Bless America. You can't be both...otherwise you end up Canadian
Incorrect. US respects the decision of the home country, and UK allows dual citizenship.
Vaktathi wrote: Yeah, Ian at Forgotten Weapons is great and does a wonderful job of covering stuff from all over the world. He mentioned hopefully getting to go the the Pattern Room in the UK to do some videos there eventually, and IIRC they started doing videos themselves very recently.
Yeah, Ian is a good presenter, and it is a good channel to watch (hickok45 is another of my favourites) but Ian does tend to obsess over Japanese firearms too much for my liking!
To be fair, Japanese guns can be pretty interesting. Ian's father was also something of a well known expert on the subject (and appeared on TV programs like "Tales of the Gun") so its not surprising he does a lot of those.
Vaktathi wrote: Yeah, Ian at Forgotten Weapons is great and does a wonderful job of covering stuff from all over the world. He mentioned hopefully getting to go the the Pattern Room in the UK to do some videos there eventually, and IIRC they started doing videos themselves very recently.
I think that's where I saw my first blow-forward pistol.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: A question for American dakka members: have any of you guys ever owned guns made by Cobray?
I watch the forgotten weapons channel on youtube ( being into historical wargames I'm curious to see how these old guns work) and while I was scrolling through the old videos, I came across some of these horrors!
Bloody hell! These are awful guns. I'm no expert but even I couldn't believe how impractical they were.
I hope none of my fellow dakka members ever owned one or thought about owing one!
I have nothing to comment on other than I love Forgotten Weapons. Love love love that channel, Ian is awesome
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: A question for American dakka members: have any of you guys ever owned guns made by Cobray?
I watch the forgotten weapons channel on youtube ( being into historical wargames I'm curious to see how these old guns work) and while I was scrolling through the old videos, I came across some of these horrors!
Bloody hell! These are awful guns. I'm no expert but even I couldn't believe how impractical they were.
I hope none of my fellow dakka members ever owned one or thought about owing one!
Yes, I have.
I've owned a S-11 semi-auto pistol (semi-auto pistol version of the M-11 SMG),and a taxed and registered M-11 SMG. The S-11, like Uzi pistol, was only reliable with FMJ ammo and factory magazines (which was costly back during the dark decade of Komrade Klinton's "crime bill" bans). Aftermarket mags were hit or miss. It was a fun range gun, but I ended up trading it (and all of it's accessories) for a HK P7M8.
The M-11 had a rubber piece in the bolt that would wear out quick due to the weapon's high rate of fire, but it wasn't an issue exclusive to the Cobray clones. The original Ingrams also had that issue. And at the time, replacements were hard to come by. While a good starter into Class 3 firearms back in the day (when you could get M-11s, Ingrams, and STEN Mk. IIs for under $2000 dollars), it's just that: a fun starter piece. Needless to say, I do not own it anymore. And that's all I prefer to say about my past (and/or possible current) NFA ownership over the internet.
As for the weapons you posted, I'm familiar with them. The first is just a knock-off of the Armscor Street Sweeper shotgun. I wasn't impressed with the one I tested out. It was less reliable than the Armscor (which had it's own issues with the design to begin with).
The Terminator was even worse in my opinion. It was a piece of gak.
Ouze wrote: Street Sweeper was an awesome looking gun, though.
Oh, I agree 100%.
I just wish that Armscor could've worked the bugs out of the design. It was a positive step toward a dedicated combat shotgun.
Not that it would've mattered in the long run, as far as the U.S. market goes. The BATF, in their infinite wisdom, decided the Street Sweeper (and clones), and semi-auto version of Daewoo USAS-12, were "destructive devices" and subject to NFA regulations. Go figure.
The street sweeper has some 80's cool factor going for it in terms of looks, but it really is an awful gun, and it's silly name got it banned despite being far less capable than most other shotguns (hooray for legislating purely on feels!)
On another note, I got home and found a package on my doorstep containg my shockingly expensive ($6 ) steel G3 mags. I can see why they went with the aluminums, the steel mags are easily 3x or more the weight...but damn are they built like a truck, these things are ~55 years old and damn near indestructible.
On another note, I got home and found a package on my doorstep containg my shockingly expensive ($6 ) steel G3 mags. I can see why they went with the aluminums, the steel mags are easily 3x or more the weight...but damn are they built like a truck, these things are ~55 years old and damn near indestructible.
I have 20 or so and they are tough, built to last for darned sure.
I will probably get some sort of magnified optic for it at some point, but need to do some more research. I'm *really* liking $3 magazines.
Stock up while you can. FAL mags used to be dirt cheap, now they're rarer than hen's teeth and have the price to match
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: A question for American dakka members: have any of you guys ever owned guns made by Cobray?
I watch the forgotten weapons channel on youtube ( being into historical wargames I'm curious to see how these old guns work) and while I was scrolling through the old videos, I came across some of these horrors!
This thread has gone a really long time, and mostly because we've stayed out of politics. That's a great rule and one I plan to stick to.
I mention this only because you mentioned stocking up on mags, and that's actually a really good idea. I don't know who the next POTUS will be, and I don't know what their agenda will be, but I do know even if he or she does nothing or nearly nothing on gun issues, there will still likely be a huge wave of panic buying. So, right now while the election is up in the air is probably a really good time to pick up things that might at some point wind up the target of future legislation, or at least at perceived targets, stuff like magazines in excess of 10 rounds, shotguns with pistol grips if you're in the market, M855 ammo, and so on.
I have a friend who now owns approx 40x 30 round magazines for his AR15 just in case. I don't think I'll go that far, but I'll probably pick up a few more, and maybe another drum mag for my AK.
On another note, I got home and found a package on my doorstep containg my shockingly expensive ($6 ) steel G3 mags. I can see why they went with the aluminums, the steel mags are easily 3x or more the weight...but damn are they built like a truck, these things are ~55 years old and damn near indestructible.
I have 20 or so and they are tough, built to last for darned sure.
Vaktathi wrote: Yeah, Ian does a great job of finding really "wtf"firearms.
Could you, or any other dakka member recommend other good gun channels on youtube?
I have zero interest or knowledge in modern stuff, as I'm primarily interested in seeing the weapons from historic wargaming operate in real life
Muskets and stuff from WW1 is my main focus, with WW2 being a close second. If it was made after 1945, I'm not interested.
Forgotten weapons is obviously a first port of call, and Mr Hickok at Hickok45 does a great channel as well.
but are there any others out there?
Thanks.
There's also "InRange" TV that Ian runs with his pal Karl that does a mix of modern and historical stuff. There's C&Rsenal that's also really amazing, they're doing gobs of WW1 stuff from .32acp pistols to anti-tank rifles and soon machineguns. Also as mentioned there's Iraqveteran8888 and Military Arms Channel that put out some good stuff, though they do lots of modern stuff, particularly the latter, and you'll get some US politics stuff from these guys occasionally.
Ouze wrote: This thread has gone a really long time, and mostly because we've stayed out of politics. That's a great rule and one I plan to stick to.
I mention this only because you mentioned stocking up on mags, and that's actually a really good idea. I don't know who the next POTUS will be, and I don't know what their agenda will be, but I do know even if he or she does nothing or nearly nothing on gun issues, there will still likely be a huge wave of panic buying. So, right now while the election is up in the air is probably a really good time to pick up things that might at some point wind up the target of future legislation, or at least at perceived targets, stuff like magazines in excess of 10 rounds, shotguns with pistol grips if you're in the market, M855 ammo, and so on.
I have a friend who now owns approx 40x 30 round magazines for his AR15 just in case. I don't think I'll go that far, but I'll probably pick up a few more, and maybe another drum mag for my AK.
Aye, I expect there to be a bloat in prices soon on lots of things. Hooray election cycles!
Hey, for you guys that have NFA trusts - I'm going in with a friend on one and I'm a little confused on the process. It seems like you need a serial number before you can create the trust, is that accurate? Or can you set up a trust and buy a suppressor later?
Ouze wrote: Hey, for you guys that have NFA trusts - I'm going in with a friend on one and I'm a little confused on the process. It seems like you need a serial number before you can create the trust, is that accurate? Or can you set up a trust and buy a suppressor later?
You can set up the trust and buy the suppressor later, but the trust has to be "funded", there have to be some sort of assets attached. Set aside a $1 bill somewhere safe, list it as an asset with its unique serial number, and once the suppressor comes you can add the suppressor to the trust and then take the dollar off and do whatever with it if you don't anticipate ever selling the suppressor.
If you're doing a form 1 as opposed to a form 4, for say, an SBR, you can add the item immediately to the Trust's assets. That's what I did with my Scorpion.
I recently made two new gun purchases: Mossberg MMR (AR-15 clone) and an HK93. Why would I buy two rifles that are both chambered in 5.56? They are each good in their own way.
The Mossberg MMR was an entry level AR. It has good accuracy, super cheap ($520 new on gunbroker), all ready has a grip that fits my huge hands, and comes standard with a free-float quad rail. Hey, it's an AR, so the sky is the limit on customizing it. I'm dropping in a Timney trigger and putting a 1-4 power scope on it in addition to a forward pistol grip. Magpul mags are plentiful and cheap (mothers day special was $10 for a 30 round mag, $15 for a 40 round mag.
The HK93 is a different beast all together. Expensive and heavy, but refined, rugged, and reliable. I'll admit it, this thing is a brick, weighing in at 8.5 pounds empty. Surplus aluminum 40- round mags from the 1970's are still $40 each (if you are lucky). New steel 30-round mags are $75. However, these mags are tough. Throw a little paint over the scratches in the surplus mags and I have no doubt they will give another 40 years of service. This thing will chew up any ammo you put through it, and is designed to handle steel case ammo. Customizing it appears tricky, but honestly, I didn't see much need. All I did was swap out the front sight for a fiber optic sight and replace the stock with a wireframe collapsible stock from an MP5 (yes, they are compatible). It's compact, good grip, and iron sights that just work well (and I'm usually not an iron sights fan). This thing has AK47 levels of reliability and little need to clean it (although I will).
The HK93 is a different beast all together. Customizing it appears tricky, but honestly, I didn't see much need. All I did was swap out the front sight for a fiber optic sight and replace the stock with a wireframe collapsible stock from an MP5 (yes, they are compatible). It's compact, good grip, and iron sights that just work well (and I'm usually not an iron sights fan). This thing has AK47 levels of reliability and little need to clean it (although I will).
You may be surprised at what is available to customize. I've gotten stuff for my HK91 and my HKMR556 here: https://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/HK-93-33-33K-53-c8.htm May not be as much stuff as there is for AR types, and what there is is not cheap, but there is quite a bit to be had if you want.
Thanks for the replies to my request for more channels on youtube.
Inrange TV looks a decent watch and had some interesting stuff, but military arms channel was a bit to modern for my liking. Iraqveteran had a good video about wheel lock muskets, so I'm happy with that.
C and Rsenal had some good WW1 stuff, so I'm happy with that as well.
But Hickok45 is still my favourite. A very dry and deadpan sense of humour, which is always a plus in my book.
Inrange TV looks a decent watch and had some interesting stuff, but military arms channel was a bit to modern for my liking. Iraqveteran had a good video about wheel lock muskets, so I'm happy with that.
C and Rsenal had some good WW1 stuff, so I'm happy with that as well.
But Hickok45 is still my favourite. A very dry and deadpan sense of humour, which is always a plus in my book.
Vickers occasionally broke out World War II-era stuff for his show, if that's your focus, and I think he has a fair few clips up on YouTube. Dude has a serious thing for the Germans' late war assault rifle, as seen here.
I think his stuff's over-edited to hell and back, but it'd be tough to find a guy with more real-world experience doing gun shows.
Vaktathi wrote: Yeah, those HK rifles are all just real real beefy. Sadly the 93 mags are 20x the cost of the 91/G3 mags :(
I'd love to run an 93, my dad had one in the long long ago, but they're running about $4k now on Gunbroker..
Well, not quite that bad. There are a couple companies out there that are making HK93 clones that are making these things downright affordable. Century arms has a clone that you can get for just $700. Their first production runs were pretty bad on quality control, but it appears that they have finally gotten their stuff together.
I can't find the name of the manufacturer now, but there is someone that makes a VERY high quality hk93 clone for about $2500. The options include and integral picatinny rail on the receiver, and they also have a version that accepts AR style magazines instead, which makes finding mags cheaper and easier.
Also, apparently MKE makes a reliable HK93 magazine in polymer for $35. Promag also makes mags too, but I wouldn't touch their stuff with a 10 foot pole.
On another topic, anyone have any good recommendations for ~4 power scopes to mount on that 308 PTR? I'm mostly clueless when it comes to magnified optics, mainly looking for something that'll work for 200-400m shots, can take some abuse, and is hopefully under $400, ideally in the $200-300 range.
I have a pretty nice 1-4 variable power scope I put on my Mini 30. Works quite well. I'll look at it in the morning and give you a model and manufacturer.
Dunno if it's been mentioned here because I didn't scroll back through to check, but if you've got a Gen 3 Glock 19 you're thinking about getting rid of, hold on to it for a few months. I have a feeling prices are gonna go up once the Navy officially announces the SEALs are switching out the Sigs for Gen 3 G19s.
Agree with Vortex, you won't get better glass for the price, and in fact you generally won't get much better if better at all for double their price. I'm picking up one of these to sit behind my Aimpoint:
Have a buddy who shoots long distance (out to 1000 meters) and uses a Vortex scope, he loves it. They have a military/LE program that can save you a VERY nice amount too.
CptJake wrote: Agree with Vortex, you won't get better glass for the price, and in fact you generally won't get much better if better at all for double their price. I'm picking up one of these to sit behind my Aimpoint:
I've been pretty impressed by Vortex; my dad, mom, and younger brother all have them on their AR's (I'm the only that doesn't because I have an EOTech 512).
I just bought a new lower today to start a new rifle. I haven't hammered out all of the details yet, but I'll figure it out as I go along.
Breotan wrote: Regarding NFA trusts, wouldn't it be easier to get a FFL?
From what I understand, getting an NFA trust is pretty straightforward (my brother and I are talking about setting one up with my dad). Also, the FFL is a different animal. You can't use it to buy a bunch of guns for personal use; it's solely for transferring firearms to other people (unless you get a Type 03 Collector of Curios and Relics license).
So, I have an "interesting" idea. I know someone that had a plan a while back. He purchased a number of parts kits, de-milled weapons, and replacement parts.
Sometimes when weapons get de-milled they don't quite do the job they are supposed to (there's always that one lazy, incompetent guy no matter where you work).
His original plan was to get enough pieces together to make a nice wall-hanger, non functional Viet Nam era grenade launcher. However, as we were looking at all the pieces (from about the equivalent of 6 parts kits) I am pretty sure we have enough pieces to make a FUNCTIONAL grenade launcher. This would look like the one used in Terminator 2.
Now, for legal purposes, he could either pay a $200 tax stamp, or modify the barrel go from 40mm diameter to 37mm. Oddly enough we found an adapter that can be welded in and not ruin the looks.
Bu what can we shoot with it? Well....real grenades are out of the question. That could easily run $300 per round. However, we have found non-explosive training rounds for sale. Bean bag rounds could also be fun. What I like the most is some "nest of bees" packs we found. Basically it's an insert. You can load it with 20 22-long rifle rounds and one trigger put fires them all at once. I was thinking of how fun it would be to load it with 22 shot shells. If you fire 20, 22LR shot shells it's basically a giant shotgun. Small birds and skeet look out.
I'm not sure the 'shot' in .22 shot shells will do the trick against skeet or birds at any distance. I shot a snake in the head at about 7-10 feet, took out an eye and pissed him off.
CptJake wrote: I'm not sure the 'shot' in .22 shot shells will do the trick against skeet or birds at any distance. I shot a snake in the head at about 7-10 feet, took out an eye and pissed him off.
Dang.... oh well, firing 20 hollow points might be fun. There are a bunch of Coyotes around.....
Yeah you should get a good look at the "shot" in a 22. It's so tiny I honestly think some of it is metal flake. It'd look cool on a paper target, that's about it
cuda1179 wrote: However, we have found non-explosive training rounds for sale. Bean bag rounds could also be fun. What I like the most is some "nest of bees" packs we found...
If it weren't illegal (and it really shouldn't be) I'd want to take an old-casing and reload it using a racket ball. imagine how much bounce you'd get!!!!. Also, it would make a great non-lethal round.
cuda1179 wrote: If it weren't illegal (and it really shouldn't be) I'd want to take an old-casing and reload it using a racket ball. imagine how much bounce you'd get!!!!. Also, it would make a great non-lethal round.
There is a lot of ridiculous stuff that's regulated under the NFA or outlawed by State laws/regulations. The SBR and pistol attachment regs are a couple of examples.
cuda1179 wrote: If it weren't illegal (and it really shouldn't be) I'd want to take an old-casing and reload it using a racket ball. imagine how much bounce you'd get!!!!. Also, it would make a great non-lethal round.
There is a lot of ridiculous stuff that's regulated under the NFA or outlawed by State laws/regulations. The SBR and pistol attachment regs are a couple of examples.
I always thought it was ridiculous that you can own a pistol AR15, but don't dare turn a rifle AR into a pistol AR. That would be a felony with a 10 year prison sentence. Sure, you can own a handgun that shoots .410 shotshells, but don't trim your .410 shotgun barrel down to 17.9999 inches long, that's a felony. A ballistics knife propelled by gunpowder is okay, but not one propelled by a spring or compressed air.
Sometimes when weapons get de-milled they don't quite do the job they are supposed to (there's always that one lazy, incompetent guy no matter where you work).
Yeah, a friend of mine imported a 7.5cm KWK 40 that was supposed to be demillled. It wasn't. Much to his glee as he happily paid all the fees he needed to to keep that sucker.
Just picked up an FN - Five Seven pistol today. Yet to shoot it and I am very excited. Any of you own one and want to give me some tips about maintianing it or have any cool stories to tell about it?
Looking at getting a new deer rifle. Debating on the caliber. I own a .308 already, and really like the round. Easy to come by, and has pretty universal usage.
Talking with my father, he was really pushing the idea I get another caliber, just to have some variety. So I'm not sure what I want to go with. 30-06, a bigger round? Or maybe smaller, like .270
djones520 wrote: Looking at getting a new deer rifle. Debating on the caliber. I own a .308 already, and really like the round. Easy to come by, and has pretty universal usage.
Talking with my father, he was really pushing the idea I get another caliber, just to have some variety. So I'm not sure what I want to go with. 30-06, a bigger round? Or maybe smaller, like .270
djones520 wrote: Looking at getting a new deer rifle. Debating on the caliber. I own a .308 already, and really like the round. Easy to come by, and has pretty universal usage.
Talking with my father, he was really pushing the idea I get another caliber, just to have some variety. So I'm not sure what I want to go with. 30-06, a bigger round? Or maybe smaller, like .270
What do you guys prefer for medium game hunting?
Hunting deer with a rifle is illegal in my state unfortunately. We are limited to shotguns, bows, and spears (yeah, seriously). Weird thing is that we are allowed to shoot other animals with whatever rifle we want. Have you considered 7.62x54R? If you can find a decent Mosin Nagant it will only set you back $200 or so. Modifying a Mosin Nagant is possibly one of the funnest things I have eve done. Educational, entertaining, and functional. With DuraCoat, a muzzle break, Archangel stock, Rock Solid scope mount, 8-24 power scope, and a Timney trigger, this thing is deadly accurate out to 700 yards and you can use cheap ammo in it. Ammo is so cheap you can buy it by the Box at WalMart, 20 round for $10.
Sometimes when weapons get de-milled they don't quite do the job they are supposed to (there's always that one lazy, incompetent guy no matter where you work).
Yeah, a friend of mine imported a 7.5cm KWK 40 that was supposed to be demillled. It wasn't. Much to his glee as he happily paid all the fees he needed to to keep that sucker.
There was an article in Popular Mechanics back in the late 1990's about improperly de-milled weapons. A man with a logging company purchased the de-milled parts of 6 Cobra helicopters, in the hopes of using the pieces to make 2 or 3 functional logging helicopters on the cheap. When they were delivered he found out he had been given 6 fully-functional attack helicopters, including functional chain guns. The government unsuccessfully sued him for their return. He currently keeps one Cobra with the weapon intact and uses it to shoot coyotes.
Xenomancers wrote: Just picked up an FN - Five Seven pistol today. Yet to shoot it and I am very excited. Any of you own one and want to give me some tips about maintianing it or have any cool stories to tell about it?
They're very cool, just sad you can't get the originally intended ammo for it
djones520 wrote: Looking at getting a new deer rifle. Debating on the caliber. I own a .308 already, and really like the round. Easy to come by, and has pretty universal usage.
Talking with my father, he was really pushing the idea I get another caliber, just to have some variety. So I'm not sure what I want to go with. 30-06, a bigger round? Or maybe smaller, like .270
What do you guys prefer for medium game hunting?
If you're looking at a more long-range option, 6.5 Creedmore may be something to look into. 30-06 will pretty much duplicate .308 performance with a bit more kick if you're not looking to stray too far however.
Also, as Cuda noted, a Mosin wouldn't be the worst option out there
cuda1179 wrote: Hunting deer with a rifle is illegal in my state unfortunately.
You could legally run an AR pistol with a SIG brace chambered in .50 Beowulf. Iowa only has a minimum barrel length, and that caliber is approved as long as the pistol doesn't have a shoulder stock. You'd also need a smaller capacity magazine, I've had enough of reading this stupid manual so I'll just assume 5 or less.
djones520 wrote: Looking at getting a new deer rifle. Debating on the caliber. I own a .308 already, and really like the round. Easy to come by, and has pretty universal usage.
Talking with my father, he was really pushing the idea I get another caliber, just to have some variety. So I'm not sure what I want to go with. 30-06, a bigger round? Or maybe smaller, like .270
What do you guys prefer for medium game hunting?
Do you handload? My favorite deer gun is chambered in .257 Roberts. VERY flat shooting, soft recoil, and lightweight. A typical barrel is pushing a 100 gr bullet at over 3k FPS.
djones520 wrote: Looking at getting a new deer rifle. Debating on the caliber. I own a .308 already, and really like the round. Easy to come by, and has pretty universal usage.
Talking with my father, he was really pushing the idea I get another caliber, just to have some variety. So I'm not sure what I want to go with. 30-06, a bigger round? Or maybe smaller, like .270
What do you guys prefer for medium game hunting?
Do you handload? My favorite deer gun is chambered in .257 Roberts. VERY flat shooting, soft recoil, and lightweight. A typical barrel is pushing a 100 gr bullet at over 3k FPS.
My father does. I just don't have the time/money to invest in it, nor do I shoot often enough to warrant it. Can't say I've heard of that caliber before. How hard is it to come by off the shelf?
I am looking at what I would like to add to my collection. I all ready have a pretty substantial inventory of weapons and ammo. I'd like to keep the range of weapons limited to what ammo I all ready have in stock. The sole exception would be if I were to find a decent .357 revolver, as that is one caliber of round I am interested in.
So, with that in mind, what would you guys recommend for a guy looking for (in no particular order):
1. A .357 revolver and/or rifle. I like the idea of a Chiappa Rhino, but the cost is a little high. I also like a Ruger 77 rifle.
2. Something that shoots 7.62x39mm. I all ready have a very reliable and accurate Ruger Mini thirty. While an AK is the obvious choice I really am not that into them. A pistol AK would be fun...but have little value other than as a fun gun.
3. .410 semi-auto shotgun.
4. Anything chambered in 7.62x54R. I all ready own a pimped-out Mosin Nagant. Although having another is tempting, I'd like to find something else too.
cuda1179 wrote: I am looking at what I would like to add to my collection. I all ready have a pretty substantial inventory of weapons and ammo. I'd like to keep the range of weapons limited to what ammo I all ready have in stock. The sole exception would be if I were to find a decent .357 revolver, as that is one caliber of round I am interested in.
So, with that in mind, what would you guys recommend for a guy looking for (in no particular order):
1. A .357 revolver and/or rifle. I like the idea of a Chiappa Rhino, but the cost is a little high. I also like a Ruger 77 rifle.
2. Something that shoots 7.62x39mm. I all ready have a very reliable and accurate Ruger Mini thirty. While an AK is the obvious choice I really am not that into them. A pistol AK would be fun...but have little value other than as a fun gun.
3. .410 semi-auto shotgun.
4. Anything chambered in 7.62x54R. I all ready own a pimped-out Mosin Nagant. Although having another is tempting, I'd like to find something else too.
for #1, you could look at a Marlin 1894, I really like mine.
For #2, by your criteria I'd have said a mini30...but you already have one. You could try a PTR 32 or an SKS, though I'd strongly recommend an AK, either an Arsenal or a DDI
For #3 an SGL 41 would be my choice (.410 AK)
For #4 this gets more difficult as there's a lack of solid 7.62x54R guns that are either A: not mosins, B: available, or C: not garbage US rebuilds. About the only good choice I can think of would be a VEPR AK pattern chambered in 7.62x54R.
Xenomancers wrote: Just picked up an FN - Five Seven pistol today. Yet to shoot it and I am very excited. Any of you own one and want to give me some tips about maintianing it or have any cool stories to tell about it?
No experience with it outside of holding one once and dreaming of how awesome I'd be if only I owned one........ So do tell his it is, they are apparently very accurate
djones520 wrote: Looking at getting a new deer rifle. Debating on the caliber. I own a .308 already, and really like the round. Easy to come by, and has pretty universal usage.
Talking with my father, he was really pushing the idea I get another caliber, just to have some variety. So I'm not sure what I want to go with. 30-06, a bigger round? Or maybe smaller, like .270
What do you guys prefer for medium game hunting?
Do you handload? My favorite deer gun is chambered in .257 Roberts. VERY flat shooting, soft recoil, and lightweight. A typical barrel is pushing a 100 gr bullet at over 3k FPS.
My father does. I just don't have the time/money to invest in it, nor do I shoot often enough to warrant it. Can't say I've heard of that caliber before. How hard is it to come by off the shelf?
Off the shelf? Dodgy, but you can find ammo on the internet no problem. If you're accustomed to paying shotgun slug prices to shoot deer, it's about the same. If you're willing to set aside some bonding time with dad, handloads are way cheaper.
Okay, so I heard this story a while back. A guy in a rather rural area liked to shoot small game using his single-shot .17HMR rifle. He liked the gun, but found out finding ammo for it in his area was significantly harder than finding .22LR.
Being pretty far from a "real" gun store he found an interesting solution. He got a box of pellets meant for a pellet gun (same diameter as the .17HMR bullet) and a box of nail gun charges.
He'd basically breach load the pellet into the barrel, then load a nail gun charge. Apparently this works quite well, however I'm willing to bet this is dangerous as all heck and I DO NOT recommend it.
I've seen people test that on YouTube. Taofledermause (I think that is how it's spelled) did some videos on that. Those seemed to move like no tomorrow too
yellowfever wrote: I know it's a little off topic but has anyone ordered bulk ammo. I want to try it but I don't know which sites can be trusted.
I order 1,000 round cases all the time, if that counts as "bulk". I've gotten from Natchez, Midway, Palmetto State Armory*, Freedom Munitions... never really had a problem with any of them.
*PSA has a somewhat bad reputation review-wise. I haven't have a problem but YMMV. I think I've liked Freedom Munitions the most, it's free shipping for new customers I think and otherwise $7 flat over $100 or something like that.
I've read that using reloads in a semi auto isn't recommended. I don't know what the online companies use. Is it reloads or factory ammo.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I've read that using reloads in a semi auto isn't recommended. I don't know what the online companies use. Is it reloads or factory ammo.
yellowfever wrote: I've read that using reloads in a semi auto isn't recommended. I don't know what the online companies use. Is it reloads or factory ammo.
Oh I see. I personally don't use reloads, but I wouldn't really have any qualms about using factory reloaded or remanufactured ammunition. I'm wary of reloads done in someones basement though - they're probably fine too but I'm pretty conservative with things that could might explode 3 inches from your face.
I've ordered several times from http://www.bulkammo.com, Natchez and a couple other sites as well. Larry, my UPS driver hates when 2,000 rounds of 7.62 NATO need to be delivered.
yellowfever wrote: I've read that using reloads in a semi auto isn't recommended. I don't know what the online companies use. Is it reloads or factory ammo.
Oh I see. I personally don't use reloads, but I wouldn't really have any qualms about using factory reloaded or remanufactured ammunition. I'm wary of reloads done in someones basement though - they're probably fine too but I'm pretty conservative with things that could might explode 3 inches from your face.
Check out your warranty. I have a couple of guns where firing reloads would void the warranty.
yellowfever wrote: I know it's a little off topic but has anyone ordered bulk ammo. I want to try it but I don't know which sites can be trusted.
Define bulk ammo. I routinely buy 1,000 round cases for 9mm and 5,000 round lots for .22lr. There is nothing wrong with reloads if the reloader is a decent. I have used Freedom in the past. However, I went through a case where there were multiple (as in 1-4 per box of 50) that were seated too deeply.
The following is my experience with 9mm rounds: *Freedom-get on their email list. Every couple of days they seem to offer free shipping for over $100 (or in general) purchases. Their reloads are decent-accuracy is about 75% to 80% of their new rounds. Their new rounds are about 85% as accurate as Remington UMC. This does seem to ebb and flow though. During the Great Bullet Freakout heir accuracy was...poor. It improved, but recently has fallen somewhat. but they are cheap so if you aren't competing they are a good buy and made in America Hurr. https://www.freedommunitions.com/
*S&B, Monarch, Bear, Wolf are all decent by different manufacturers. I quit buying them when I found Freedom ( ) and I won't buy the Russian stuff any more for any reason.
*Inversely, Atlanta Arms is the stuff you buy when you want competition level ammo. This is about as good as it gets outside of you tailoring loads for each of your firearms specially. Its the go to for competition shooters, and police departments use them as well. Its not cheap, but you can't blame the ammo when you miss. http://atlantaarms.com/target-defense-ammo/
I have used factory reman ammo plenty. And I have shot some mom&pop loaded ammo at gun shows and its been fine. 45 Colt can be hard to come by. I think buying 'garage' loaded ammo is fine if it's just target grade ammo. It gets dicey when you are looking at max FPS loads and stuff like that. Because then they may have used a different gun than yours and yours may blow up.
How much does a decent to good quality mauser K98k go for? The reason I ask is I want to get back into WW2 reenacting and I want to know how much to be prepared to spend.
Hordini wrote: Turkish Mausers can be had for less as well, although that might not be what you want for reenacting.
Depends on how much the group you're in looks down on farbing it. Civil War one I'm in it's an extra days drill with the awkward squad for first offense (unless it's glasses).
Anyone gotten hold of a Ruger Precision Rifle yet? Still debating this. If you could get one(AFAIK only the .243 is readily available) what caliber would you grab and why? 6.5 creedmore has a lot of promise and is doing well in competition. .308 is common and isn't too shabby itself but has less range and accuracy than the 6.5. I know next to nothing about the .243 except that's all I ever see at gun shows and the dealers have 6.5s and .308s on personal order for themselves.
Don't know how many of you guys and girls cast your own lead bullets but I was just given about 300 lbs of lead bricks from my neighbor. These bricks weigh around 50lbs a piece and I have been melting them down into ingots. Wheel weights where my old source of free lead but since they went to zinc resources dried up over the years. I also have in the past recovered lead from the range but that was a ton of work.
Col. Dash wrote: Anyone gotten hold of a Ruger Precision Rifle yet? Still debating this. If you could get one(AFAIK only the .243 is readily available) what caliber would you grab and why? 6.5 creedmore has a lot of promise and is doing well in competition. .308 is common and isn't too shabby itself but has less range and accuracy than the 6.5. I know next to nothing about the .243 except that's all I ever see at gun shows and the dealers have 6.5s and .308s on personal order for themselves.
I have heard good reviews on it, although that style is not my cup of tea.
Col. Dash wrote: Anyone gotten hold of a Ruger Precision Rifle yet? Still debating this. If you could get one(AFAIK only the .243 is readily available) what caliber would you grab and why?
I'm not a great person to ask since I don't hunt and I'm not a sniper, but in terms of range shooting, I'd go with .308 since it's my favorite rifle round. I feel like it has the exact right amount of recoil for me - enough to feel authoritative and fun, but not so much it hurts at the end of a casual session. 30.06 is right around where I start to find recoil unpleasant, but .308 is right at the upper end of the sweet spot.
I actually bought a Smith & Wesson MP-10 (it's the S&W take on the AR-10) just recently, it was a steal at Cabellas for 600$ in their gun library. I might also have to get into reloading as .308 ammo is a bit expensive. That being said, this is actually my first rifle. I don't hunt, I just thought it'd be really cool to own one (and to pad the statistics to further the proof that most gun-owners are not psychopaths who shoot up schools). I was sad to find that it did not have iron sights on it. I think I should be acquainted with iron sights before I run around buying really expensive scopes. Any tips for somebody with their first AR platform?
I also have a little .38 taurus snubnose that I love for it's simplicity. Cleaning a firearm has never been so easy
Col. Dash wrote: Anyone gotten hold of a Ruger Precision Rifle yet? Still debating this. If you could get one(AFAIK only the .243 is readily available) what caliber would you grab and why?
I'm not a great person to ask since I don't hunt and I'm not a sniper, but in terms of range shooting, I'd go with .308 since it's my favorite rifle round. I feel like it has the exact right amount of recoil for me - enough to feel authoritative and fun, but not so much it hurts at the end of a casual session. 30.06 is right around where I start to find recoil unpleasant, but .308 is right at the upper end of the sweet spot.
I would not consider the Ruger a hunting rifle. A hunting rifle is light and capable of a good snap shot. Thats not the Ruger's cup of tea. A Ruger American, now thats a hunting rifle.
Randomrolls wrote: I actually bought a Smith & Wesson MP-10 (it's the S&W take on the AR-10) just recently, it was a steal at Cabellas for 600$ in their gun library.
I'm very jealous, I think you saved at least $500 on that deal.
I impulse bought a Aero Precision M5 (AR10) upper when it was on sale, $143 shipped, cerakoted in FDE, when it popped up on Slickguns. I had hoped to build an a complete AR10.
That got completely sidetracked - partially by me getting punched in the dick financially over and over again over the last 2 months - the water heater just failed today, and it's the last in a string of expensive problems - but mostly, because I absolutely cannot find most of the stuff I need in stock. I didn't realize it at the time but there is no standard whatsoever for AR10s the way there is for AR15s, and parts commonality is very hit and miss. Aero, which would be the best bet compatibility wise, has not had a lower in stock since then for more than a few minutes.
Maybe someday though. On the other hand, if I were smart, I'd not throw good money after a bad idea and just get a $200 Mosin and be happy.
I impulse bought a Aero Precision M5 (AR10) upper when it was on sale, $143 shipped, cerakoted in FDE, when it popped up on Slickguns. I had hoped to build an a complete AR10. That got completely sidetracked - partially by me getting punched in the dick financially over and over again over the last 2 months - the water heater just failed today, and it's the last in a string of expensive problems - but mostly, because I absolutely cannot find most of the stuff I need in stock. I didn't realize it at the time but there is no standard whatsoever for AR10s the way there is for AR15s, and parts commonality is very hit and miss. Aero, which would be the best bet compatibility wise, has not had a lower in stock since then for more than a few minutes.
Maybe someday though. On the other hand, if I were smart, I'd not throw good money after a bad idea and just get a $200 Mosin and be happy.
My deepest condolences, friend. My landlord spent all of last week fixing my stupid shower. See, back in the day when our house was built, they didn't really have a Menards you could run to, so you used whatever you had on hand or you went without. Thus, when my landlord tried to install a new faucet for the shower, he discovered that it wasn't actual pipe he was dealing with, but rather it was copper refrigerator tubing. So after filing down said tubing (Which was a fraction of a millimeter too thick to accommodate the new faucet), he discovers that the particular faucet he bought was defective, and he had uninstall that, run back to the store, buy another faucet, and install that one instead.
In short, I completely understand how life gets in the way.
Well, it could be a lot, lot worse, I could have a lot of expensive problems and not be able to afford fixing them.
As an IT person, I'm often irritated with how people are mystified by basic IT stuff. However, after trying my hand at basic plumbing problems, I know how it feels.
Very true. I myself am not so much of a hands-on guy, more of an introverted bookworm myself. But the more hands-on I get, the more I find that google is truly a blessing. You can do a whole lot of things yourself if you can find the motivation. Me, I like typing on my computer a bit more. Currently writing a dark political satire set in a fantasy world, with a POV coming from a nearly-illiterate mercenary troll.
Ouze wrote:I impulse bought a Aero Precision M5 (AR10) upper when it was on sale, $143 shipped, cerakoted in FDE, when it popped up on Slickguns. I had hoped to build an a complete AR10.
That got completely sidetracked - partially by me getting punched in the dick financially over and over again over the last 2 months - the water heater just failed today, and it's the last in a string of expensive problems - but mostly, because I absolutely cannot find most of the stuff I need in stock. I didn't realize it at the time but there is no standard whatsoever for AR10s the way there is for AR15s, and parts commonality is very hit and miss. Aero, which would be the best bet compatibility wise, has not had a lower in stock since then for more than a few minutes.
I originally thought about building an AR-10 but I just decided to go with .300 AAC. I should get my upper and lower receivers back from the shop this week after having them Cerakoted and then I can build out the lower because I have all the parts for it. I've already picked out the barrel and handguard I want, I just need to put aside some money to buy them (I'm spreading the cost of this build out over a couple months to go easy on my wallet).
Ouze wrote:As an IT person, I'm often irritated with how people are mystified by basic IT stuff. However, after trying my hand at basic plumbing problems, I know how it feels.
If you ever have any questions about plumbing or AC, shoot me a PM!
Randomrolls wrote: I actually bought a Smith & Wesson MP-10 (it's the S&W take on the AR-10) just recently, it was a steal at Cabellas for 600$ in their gun library. I might also have to get into reloading as .308 ammo is a bit expensive. That being said, this is actually my first rifle. I don't hunt, I just thought it'd be really cool to own one (and to pad the statistics to further the proof that most gun-owners are not psychopaths who shoot up schools). I was sad to find that it did not have iron sights on it. I think I should be acquainted with iron sights before I run around buying really expensive scopes. Any tips for somebody with their first AR platform?
I also have a little .38 taurus snubnose that I love for it's simplicity. Cleaning a firearm has never been so easy
If I had purchased a rifle directly from the manufacturer, and they told me the rifle was semi-auto, but I found out later that it was in fact full-auto, how much trouble am I in?
Basically, My C93 (HK93 clone) is made using a lot of surplus Indonesian parts. I decided I didn't like the grip, so I ordered a more ergonomic trigger housing, however that style was only available in the 3-position selector option. I figured that the full-auto spot would simply be cosmetic.
As I am taking apart the rifle I discover that my HK has a full-auto trigger group (unmodified, obviously from the Indonesian parts kits) . The only thing that had previously been keeping me from flipping to the full-auto option was a physical block on the old trigger housing. Now with my new trigger housing there isn't anything stopping it. I function tested it after reassembly, and it seems like it should fire.
While I have yet to try to fire it, I'm wondering if this thing might go full-auto. If it does, should I contact the ATF, or just put the old part back on and pretend like I knew nothing?
If it does allow you to fire more than one projectile with a single trigger pull, you would be guilty of manufacturing a machine gun and do prison time.
Nostromodamus wrote: If it does allow you to fire more than one projectile with a single trigger pull, you would be guilty of manufacturing a machine gun and do prison time.
Do not manufacture a machine gun.
This. The ATF doesn't feth around in this regard. I'm mean, you'll probably be fine as long as you don't brag about it... but, if the feds were to ever inspect it...
Yeah, Cuda, that's 100% illegal. The good thing is, as long as you don't brag about it, overwhelming chances would be that you're fine (Unless you plan on flagrantly breaking a few laws which would give the authorities reason to inspect the weapon). Think about it the same way as smoking pot: if you're not stupid, there's no reason you should be caught. But if you do run around telling everyone in the neighborhood you have an automatic weapon, then you will find yourself facing a hefty fine.
Does it have an auto-sear or just the 3 position selector? My PTR91 has the selector for the full auto setting, but does not have the auto-sear, and that's perfectly fine. If it does in fact have the auto-sear, I would advise removing some of the text of your post and ensuring that the trigger housing and receiver never get near each other, as there's basically nothing that'll get the ATF in a tizzy more than an illegal machinegun.
That said, HK and HK clones typically have receivers modified in such a way as to prevent successful installation of actual full auto trigger housings, like welding the pushpin hole shut.
I'm not totally sure if I have an auto-sear. Honestly, I never intended to make a full auto. In fact I still don't know if it is or not. I might have to try it out this weekend. I doubt it is, but still makes me uneasy.
I thought that importing non-modified full auto HK trigger groups was illegal. Looks like this one slipped past Century's quality control and that of any import inspector.
The full auto trigger groups are perfectly legal...they're just parts. You can go and pick up full auto trigger packs for post '86 guns like G36's and UMP's, perfectly legal to own, just not attached to a gun that can make use of them. So long as they aren't attached to (or in close proximity such as to be construed as "constructively possessed") a receiver able to accept them. Stuff like drop in auto-sears and lightning links for AR's are a bit different since they require no modification to a receiver (and thus are considered Machineguns in and of themselves), but an ATF approved HK93 import build should not be able to accept an *actual* full auto trigger pack without modification that would require machine tools
I picked up the lower receiver almost 3 years ago, but only just got around to actually building and putting the thing together in the last couple of weeks. Definitely liking the Magpul plastic rear backup sight.
I was looking at picking up a .357 revolver. Smith and Wesson is true quality. However, the Chiappa Rhino looks kind of neat. Shooting from the bottom of the cylinder is awesome, but is Chiappa a quality brand?
Just out of curiosity, I am also looking for a revolver chambered in 45 Long Colt. I all ready have a Taurus Judge, so not that. I'd like it to be double action, without looking like a "cowboy" revolver. In other words, a more modern design. The only thing I've found, with decent quality, is the Ruger Redhawk. Any other suggestions?
I guess I could always just get something chambered in 44 mag and have the cylinder customized.
The Super Redhawk, on the other hand, feels like a block of wood with a grip glued on. I had one in .454 Casull. Ended up trading it after a couple of years.
Hordini wrote: Turkish Mausers can be had for less as well, although that might not be what you want for reenacting.
Depends on how much the group you're in looks down on farbing it. Civil War one I'm in it's an extra days drill with the awkward squad for first offense (unless it's glasses).
My group is pretty strict on Mausers. If you're familiar with Wehrmacht arms and equipment a foreign made mauser will stick out like a sore thumb. I'd rather buy right and buy once than lose money by getting farb gear haha.
As a follow up question from a first time gun owner, should I get a weapons safe for the rifle? Even it's converted to fire blanks I'd still like to be responsible.
Hordini wrote: Turkish Mausers can be had for less as well, although that might not be what you want for reenacting.
Depends on how much the group you're in looks down on farbing it. Civil War one I'm in it's an extra days drill with the awkward squad for first offense (unless it's glasses).
My group is pretty strict on Mausers. If you're familiar with Wehrmacht arms and equipment a foreign made mauser will stick out like a sore thumb. I'd rather buy right and buy once than lose money by getting farb gear haha.
As a follow up question from a first time gun owner, should I get a weapons safe for the rifle? Even it's converted to fire blanks I'd still like to be responsible.
Depends a lot on your situation. Every have kids in your house? If yes, a gun safe ensures they can't get access to it. Worried about it being stolen? If yes, a gun safe makes it less likely a guy breaking in to your house/apartment can't get it. If no to both, frankly if it was me I would not bother with the cost. I would keep in in a gun case in a closet, maybe put a lock on the case.
TheCustomLime wrote: As a follow up question from a first time gun owner, should I get a weapons safe for the rifle? Even it's converted to fire blanks I'd still like to be responsible.
I keep my longer guns - they're pretty short, a folding stock AK and an AR pistol - in a locked filing cabinet. My pistols are locked in a pistol safe that is bolted to said filing cabinet.
If you have kids then I absolutely would urge you to get a gun safe. I know that some people here swear their kids know better and so on, and I'm not pissing on them, but even if your kids know better their friends visiting might not and why take a chance?
Austin with the kids and their friends. Most are in a locked cabinet. A few are in quick open safes in two locations.
Houston which is just me and the mountain dog, loaded 870 in the bedroom (which can double as a pike its so long) and Mom's old pistol in the den by the chair I sit in.
Hordini wrote: Turkish Mausers can be had for less as well, although that might not be what you want for reenacting.
Depends on how much the group you're in looks down on farbing it. Civil War one I'm in it's an extra days drill with the awkward squad for first offense (unless it's glasses).
My group is pretty strict on Mausers. If you're familiar with Wehrmacht arms and equipment a foreign made mauser will stick out like a sore thumb. I'd rather buy right and buy once than lose money by getting farb gear haha.
As a follow up question from a first time gun owner, should I get a weapons safe for the rifle? Even it's converted to fire blanks I'd still like to be responsible.
I would. I have two fire-resistant Browning safes. Both are big, heavy, and bolted to the floor and frame. Best three grand I ever spent.
Because theft and unauthorized access aren't the only concerns. Fire is another. And fire-resistant safes will protect your weapons to a point if a fire breaks out (it depends on the temperature of the fire).
There are also cheaper options for fire-resistant safes on the market for the budget consumer. You just have to shop around.
If you are worried about children and guns, and only own bolt-action rifles, there is an alternative. Simply remove the bolt assembly and lock that up in a small safe.
What's left of the gun is basically a pipe, and can not fire anything. The worst they could do is drop it on their foot.
When all I owned was a .22 rifle, I used to remove the bolt from it and keep it behind my bed with a trigger lock (it was $2 with the gun). Even if my 2 year old found it, it was little more than a club at that point. You'd have to remove the lock to reassemble it.
OK, round comparison. I am looking at the Precision still. Whats the general difference plusses and negatives between
6.5 Creedmore
.243
.308
This is what I know currently
.308 is a fairly common, relatively inexpensive, fairly dependable round. Its accuracy does fall off greatly past 1000m from what I have read
6.5 is a newer round, a bit more expensive and uncommon to buy. Extremely accurate out past 1000m and seems to be becoming one of the more common long range competition rounds.
.243 a good hunting round. Least expensive of the three and fairly common. But I know next to nothing on ranged accuracy on it.
So please enlighten me further. Hopefully someone knows something about the .243
Indeed - we've left politics out of this thread and I'd love to continue doing so but we need to go on the presumption that there will be panic buying even if the new POTUS does pretty much nothing on guns.
In that vein, I think .243, and .308 are probably safe.
I can't speak to the ballistic performance which is what I think you really want.
Indeed I only mention as part of the buying decision. I agree on .243. If 30.06 was represented I'd go with that. I like the good old .308 but am wondering if that will be impacted. if so, make purchases now.
I have no idea what that is. Reverse image search is failing me. It doesn't match any anti-materiel rifle I am familiar with... Is that a vehicle mount on the side? Maybe it came out of an aircraft or APC, something like that.
Ouze wrote: I have no idea what that is. Reverse image search is failing me. It doesn't match any anti-materiel rifle I am familiar with... Is that a vehicle mount on the side? Maybe it came out of an aircraft or APC, something like that.
Ted Nugent is claiming that a 5.56 caliber AR15 is:
1) not designed to kill people (but is designed for self defense...he says...huh?)
2) would be less effective at killing unarmed people than a "standard issue goose shotgun"
Ted Nugent is claiming that a 5.56 caliber AR15 is:
1) not designed to kill people (but is designed for self defense...he says...huh?)
2) would be less effective at killing unarmed people than a "standard issue goose shotgun"
Do you think he is actually correct?
1: no, it is designed for hunting, if i'm gonna have a big unweilding weapon like that would rather have a shotgun since it ends arguments faster.
2: a 12 gauge shotgun can do more damage shot for shot then an AR-15 could.
TheMeanDM wrote: Even considering ammo capability, reloading speed, and projectile FPS...?
For actual home defense? It's considered the best... as, you just point in the general direction and pull the trigger. Plus, there's less chance that the ammo penetrates multiple walls.
But for property defense? Like varmint shoot? AR is a decent platform for that.*
*note, I don't own an AR, but I do have a shotgun for skeet/traps that I use for home defense.
TheMeanDM wrote: Even considering ammo capability, reloading speed, and projectile FPS...?
even considering that, each round from an AR-15 can hit one person, each round from a 12 gauge can hit more then one person, in fact you have a better chance of survive a shot from an AR-15 then you do from a shotgun with double ought in it. because an AR-15 round is a single projectile while a 00 shotgun shell has 9 projectiles in it and even that can be altered so you have 9 projectiles coming at you compared to 1, which one would you want shooting at you?
In a home defense situation you do indeed have to aim a shotgun. The spread pattern is roughly only a few inches at those distances. Unless you have a SBR shotgun.
TheMeanDM wrote: Even considering ammo capability, reloading speed, and projectile FPS...?
.223 rounds aren't very big and depending on range and where it hits the round can pass through doing little damage. For instance 55 grains is a common size for .223 bullets and that's not much bigger in terms of weight than .22lr. Of course .223 does a lot more damage than .22lr because .223 rounds have a tendency to tumble inside somebody and create some pretty big exist wounds and since they travel at high velocity they can impact a lot of kinetic energy and hydrostatic shock. It's relatively easy to get good shot placement with .223 becacuse it shoots very flat and has low recoil so you can put rounds where they'll do the most damage.
A 12 gauge is going to dump a massive amount of kinetic energy into whatever you hit because the shot or slug has greater mass than a single .223 bullet. Even with body armor on a hit from a 12 gauge is going to knock somebody down, they'll just get back up. Rifle rounds and shotgun slugs are going through most vests unless additional armor plates have been added.
In regards to home defense there is very little in a typical home that will actually stop a bullet. Any gun that you can shoot well and with confidence is a good home defense gun. I hope I never get in a gunfight in my house because like I said there's very little in a home that will reliably stop a bullet. Try to find a chokepoint with a safe backstop, like a stairway so that you know you can shoot down the stairs at bad guys and if you miss you only hit the floor. You want to avoid shooting at anyone or anything that is standing in front of a door or wall that has people like your wife and kids on the other side.
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yellowfever wrote: In a home defense situation you do indeed have to aim a shotgun. The spread pattern is roughly only a few inches at those distances. Unless you have a SBR shotgun.
True, even with 00 buck you're only going to get a spread the size of a teacup saucer if you're standing in the same room of a house as your target. Unless you live in a palatial mansion.
yellowfever wrote: In a home defense situation you do indeed have to aim a shotgun. The spread pattern is roughly only a few inches at those distances. Unless you have a SBR shotgun.
,
beg to differ after 10' the spread on a shotgun is like 6 inches, at 20 feet it is like a foot or so, while a rifle round does not get bigger you fire a .223 bullet, the spread is still .223. measure out 20' its not that big. hell my game room i'm in right now is longer then 20'
I undersrand auto vs semi auto, length and weight..but...thats about all the functional difference...yes?
trust me from auto to semi auto(as fast as you can pull the trigger) is a big difference in rate of fire and such and its a big enough difference the AR-15 also known as the CAR-15 or Civilian Armalite Rifle is just that a rifle, pretty much many rifles also are like the AR-15 the only reason the AR-15 is used more by certain mass shooters is because it looks cool, much better options and weapons available to civilians that could do the job better.
I undersrand auto vs semi auto, length and weight..but...thats about all the functional difference...yes?
Ballistics wise it's all the same unless you get into significant differences in barrel lenght. There's really no performance difference in a round of .223 fired from an M4 or an AR15 or a .223 bolt action rifle.
d-usa wrote: So just to be clear, the military designed a weapon for hunting and not killing people?
the AR-15 is not a military weapon, it never has been and never will be. an AR-15 is a rifle nothing more, nothing less.
So who designed the AR-15, what's the history, how did it come to be?
I was under the impression that ArmaLite took the AR-10, redesigned it for a 5.56 round rather than a 7.62 round, and then sold the rights to the AR-10 and AR-15 to Colt. Colt then did some redesigning of the AR-15 with the US military which resulted in the M-16. Then Colt took the M-16 and started to marked the semi-automatic version of it as the AR-15, selling it to civilian markets and law enforcement agencies.
Then there is the whole thing that the 5.56 round was designed by ArmaLite and other manufacturers specifically to meet the ballistic specifications of the US military.
But I admit that I might be mistaken, and if so I look forward to being educated on who designed the 5.56 caliber AR-15 for hunting.
EDIT: Just to be clear:
1) I don't have an issue with the concept of the AR-15 2) I think Ted Nugent is a fething idiot (not just because of this, but because of a great many things) 3) I think the argument that the 5.56 caliber AR-15 was designed for hunting is wrong 4) I do think the AR-15 people usually think of when they hear AR-15 is fugly as hell and I am absolutely not a fan of it, but I do like the versions with the "traditional" look of the stock and stuff.
d-usa wrote: So just to be clear, the military designed a weapon for hunting and not killing people?
the AR-15 is not a military weapon, it never has been and never will be. an AR-15 is a rifle nothing more, nothing less.
So who designed the AR-15, what's the history, how did it come to be?
I was under the impression that ArmaLite took the AR-10, redesigned it for a 5.56 round rather than a 7.62 round, and then sold the rights to the AR-10 and AR-15 to Colt. Colt then did some redesigning of the AR-15 with the US military which resulted in the M-16. Then Colt took the M-16 and started to marked the semi-automatic version of it as the AR-15, selling it to civilian markets and law enforcement agencies.
Then there is the whole thing that the 5.56 round was designed by ArmaLite and other manufacturers specifically to meet the ballistic specifications of the US military.
But I admit that I might be mistaken, and if so I look forward to being educated on who designed the 5.56 caliber AR-15 for hunting.
and you just answered your own question, the AR-15 was designed for the civilian market, it may have been based off of the military version but it was designed for civilian use, not military use, since the military uses a fully auto M-16.
or let me ask you this, how many AR-15's are being used by our military? let me answer for you, none.
d-usa wrote: So are you going to explain who designed the 5.56 AR-15 for hunting or not?
you do realize that 5.56 is just the NATO specification for the .223 bullet? right?
You know, it's fine for you to be wrong about everything in threads that deal with "opinions" and such.
But people come into this thread for actual advise and knowledge. People here can get hurt if they mistakenly think that you know what you are talking about, only to walk away from this thread thinking that 5.56 is just a different name for the .223. Not only are you wrong, but you are also dangerous.
The 5.56 and .223 have different case dimensions, chamber shapes, and pressures. They are not two different names for the same round, and 5.56 is NOT the NATO specification for the .223 bullet. In some cases a .223 round can be used in a gun chambered for a 5.56 round, but doing the opposite
The 5.56 was designed from the ground up for the military to meet their specifications, and was not designed as a hunting round.
More information regarding the mistaken belief that they are the same round:
Again, just to clarify, I have no problem with the AR-15. I just have an issue with incorrect information in a thread that is very technical and that people might rely on for accurate information.
d-usa wrote: So are you going to explain who designed the 5.56 AR-15 for hunting or not?
you do realize that 5.56 is just the NATO specification for the .223 bullet? right?
You know, it's fine for you to be wrong about everything in threads that deal with "opinions" and such.
But people come into this thread for actual advise and knowledge. People here can get hurt if they mistakenly think that you know what you are talking about, only to walk away from this thread thinking that 5.56 is just a different name for the .223. Not only are you wrong, but you are also dangerous.
The 5.56 and .223 have different case dimensions, chamber shapes, and pressures. They are not two different names for the same round, and 5.56 is NOT the NATO specification for the .223 bullet. In some cases a .223 round can be used in a gun chambered for a 5.56 round, but doing the opposite
The 5.56 was designed from the ground up for the military to meet their specifications, and was not designed as a hunting round.
More information regarding the mistaken belief that they are the same round:
Again, just to clarify, I have no problem with the AR-15. I just have an issue with incorrect information in a thread that is very technical and that people might rely on for accurate information.
of which .223 ammo can be fired from 5.56 rifles because the 5.56 rifle is made of sturdier stock which is also why AR-15's say .223/5.56 on them, oh and the ammo it is even sold as such: http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/product1827.html, but then those are not the only rounds they can fire either: Most AR15s fire 223 Remington or 5.56 NATO ammo, although AR15s have been chambered with a number of other ammunition types, including 22 long rifle, 204 Ruger, 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, 300 AAC Blackout, and 458 SOCOM. AR15s can also shoot pistol ammo, such as 9 mm, 40 Smith & Wesson, and 45 ACP.
all you are doing is misleading people into thinking the AR-15 only fires a military spec 5.56 round and there you are wrong.
I'm just sitting here waiting on any kind of actual documentation of the hunting designed 5.56 AR-15.
Edit:
Why are people so afraid of admitting that a round and a rifle was designed for military specification with the round being available to civilians and the rifle firing mechanism altered to be legal for civilian use? Does something HAVE to be designed for hunting to be a good/legal/safe rifle? Does being designed to meet mil-spec make something bad or dangerous? Are people afraid that the military heritage of things will get stuff legislated away?
There is no problem with a 5.56 AR-15 being what it is, stop hiding from it. The Nug is an idiot.
d-usa wrote: I'm just sitting here waiting on any kind of actual documentation of the hunting designed 5.56 AR-15.
Edit:
Why are people so afraid of admitting that a round and a rifle was designed for military specification with the round being available to civilians and the rifle firing mechanism altered to be legal for civilian use? Does something HAVE to be designed for hunting to be a good/legal/safe rifle? Does being designed to meet mil-spec make something bad or dangerous? Are people afraid that the military heritage of things will get stuff legislated away?
There is no problem with a 5.56 AR-15 being what it is, stop hiding from it. The Nug is an idiot.
I've heard almost the exact same line- "the AR-15 was marketed and refitted for Civilian use, not military use." about 3 or 4 times now, which is blatant redirection.
Simple question to those who might know or know where to find out:
Was the 5.56 designed for hunting? Yes or no. If no, what was it designed for?
I've heard almost the exact same line- "the AR-15 was marketed and refitted for Civilian use, not military use." about 3 or 4 times now, which is blatant redirection.
Simple question to those who might know or know where to find out:
Was the 5.56 designed for hunting? Yes or no. If no, what was it designed for?
actually the M193 which was a 5.56mm round was designed for the military, which was found to be ineffective and therefore the M855 which was also a 5.56mm round was created for the military, which has the same capacity as a .308 Winchester (a popular hunting round) as is the 30-06 another popular hunting round, so trying to say because the 5.56mm round was used in the military is redundant, it is not the most powerful hunting rounds out there, nor even close to some of them. especially since it failed to meet the required specs the military wanted. not too mention pistols that use 5.56mm rounds. just because a weapon uses a bullet that was designed for the military does not make the weapon a military weapon which is the point, the AR-15 was marketed/designed for civilian use, not military use.
To my knowledge .223 was designed for hunting and 5.56 was designed as a military round that NATO adopted as standard. That's why the AR10 (7.62) became the AR15 (5.56), so it could be pitched to the military, who added select fire and adopted it as the M16.
That's how I understand it went, anyway.
.223 can be fired in rifles marked 5.56, but not vice versa due to the pressures involved. They are not the same cartridge.
Tests also show that 5.56 tends to penetrate fewer barriers than 00 buck in a home defense situation. So the notion of using a shotgun because it penetrates less is somewhat flawed.
And the notion of "pointing a shotgun in the general direction of the baddie" is dangerously flawed. If you seriously believe that is good enough, please seek training. Anyone who has patterned a home defense shotgun knows it's bs.
Nostromodamus wrote: To my knowledge .223 was designed for hunting and 5.56 was designed as a military round that NATO adopted as standard. That's why the AR10 (7.62) became the AR15 (5.56), so it could be pitched to the military, who added select fire and adopted it as the M16.
That's how I understand it went, anyway.
.223 can be fired in rifles marked 5.56, but not vice versa due to the pressures involved. They are not the same cartridge.
Tests also show that 5.56 tends to penetrate fewer barriers than 00 buck in a home defense situation. So the notion of using a shotgun because it penetrates less is somewhat flawed.
And the notion of "pointing a shotgun in the general direction of the baddie" is dangerously flawed. If you seriously believe that is good enough, please seek training. Anyone who has patterned a home defense shotgun knows it's bs.
read the link I showed earlier, you will find you have erred in one of your assumptions, as to others once again a bullet higher then a .22 will go thru more then a wall while a shotgun fired from the same distance will not. and if you are aiming down a hall way, then yes general direction works.
A sabot/rifled shotgun slug would probably penetrate drywall...yes?
I get that a shotgun has a bigger spread than a rifle...and is definitely going to be messier up close due to the size of the projectile (if slugs or possibly 00 buckshot are used).
I am thinking though that a semi auto rifle (regardless of ar 15 or not) is going to be more effective:
He is right that there are only a few in that 60grs range with comparable FPS of 1350.
However I think he was a little..off...when he claimed the 32 was lightest "common" handgun.
The 9mm Luger is by far the world's most common handgun, and its standard is I believe 115gr...nearly 2x the weight of a 00 pellet...and only 200fps less (100 if you hollow point).
I would posit then that I would rather take one piece of 00 buckshot than one 9mm shot.
TheMeanDM wrote: A sabot/rifled shotgun slug would probably penetrate drywall...yes?
I get that a shotgun has a bigger spread than a rifle...and is definitely going to be messier up close due to the size of the projectile (if slugs or possibly 00 buckshot are used).
I am thinking though that a semi auto rifle (regardless of ar 15 or not) is going to be more effective:
He is right that there are only a few in that 60grs range with comparable FPS of 1350.
However I think he was a little..off...when he claimed the 32 was lightest "common" handgun.
The 9mm Luger is by far the world's most common handgun, and its standard is I believe 115gr...nearly 2x the weight of a 00 pellet...and only 200fps less (100 if you hollow point).
I would posit then that I would rather take one piece of 00 buckshot than one 9mm shot.
but you would be taking not one piece of 00 buckshot but all 9 fired from the shotgun, as to ammo capacity guess you never heard of shotgun drums? or shotgun mags? obviously since you seem to think they are limited in Ammo count, ROF? you do realize a shotgun fires at the same rate as an AR-15? as fast as you can pull the trigger., reload? same thing as the mags and drums, accuracy only over longer ranges, up close better chance of hitting target with shotgun then a rifle.
Ted Nugent is claiming that a 5.56 caliber AR15 is:
1) not designed to kill people (but is designed for self defense...he says...huh?)
2) would be less effective at killing unarmed people than a "standard issue goose shotgun"
Do you think he is actually correct?
He is not correct on 1) because it's a bit of misdirection. While the AR15 isn't a military weapon and "wasn't designed for killing people", per se, it fires 5.56 and so obviously that was engineered specifically for killing people. At least in North America, 5.56 is a pretty lousy hunting round. It has it's applications - coyote, boars, etc - but I don't think many people immediately think varmints when they think hunting. It's not really large enough to reliably take deer imo although people do it. In my opinion, the hunting and 3 gun applications for the AR15 came later, as a bit of post purchase justification for "buying a cool looking rifle, like the military uses".
So far as 2) I have to say he's incorrect because now I'm going to do the exact kind of technical word parsing he did, since that's the game we're playing. Depending on range, a shotgun round or slug would cause far more trauma than a single 5.56 - you need better shot placement to kill with a 5.56. However, in your quote he says less effective at killing unarmed people, plural, and obviously 30 rounds is going to be more effective against people plural than 6 or 7 rounds.
The obvious framing here is that Ted Nugent is trying to imply that shotguns are more effective in mass shootings/spree killing that a semiautomatic rifle with a box magazine. On that, I think he is clearly wrong. If you want to kill as many people in a short time as possible with a firearm, it's going to be very difficult to beat a semiauto rifle with a drum magazine - specifically, I think, a 7.62x39 AK with a drum magazine, which I don't think we've seen yet.
Is this a good rationale for legislation? Not really. I'm not one for a nirvana fallacy, but I'd suggest if you want to look at legislation against firearms as a way to reduce fatalities, we start with the approx 6,000 people killed with handguns than the 250 people or so killed with rifles. But the truth this that if we continue this tangent, it's probably going to get the thread locked.
So far as self defense applications of the AR15, it will do obviously. Saying it's designed for self defense is probably a fabrication. Is it good for home defense? I don't think that's a binary, yes/no question. I think there are a lot of factors that go into what makes a firearm good for home defense depending on your situation and training level. I know that .223 will penetrate less sheetrock than a buckshot pellet in tests, but I also know a missed .223 is going to go a hell of a lot further than said shotgun pellet... I think it depends on your training and comfort level. If I were to be facing a single attacker inside my home then I think I'd probably prefer my .45acp 1911 than my AR, because I have sent thousands of rounds downrange with my 1911 and am very comfortable with it, and I trust the Gold Dot hollowpoints it's loaded with. YMMV, and if I had been in the military and trained with an M4 I bet I would answer that differently, and if I had been deer hunting many times with my shotgun, I'd answer that differently still.
So far as 2) I have to say he's incorrect because now I'm going to do the exact kind of technical word parsing he did, since that's the game we're playing. Depending on range, a shotgun round or slug would cause far more trauma than a single 5.56 - you need better shot placement to kill with a 5.56. However, in your quote he says less effective at killing unarmed people, plural, and obviously 30 rounds is going to be more effective against people plural than 6 or 7 rounds.
they do have 20 and 30 round shotgun drum magazines and maybe larger but haven't checked in awhile. since for home intruder defense if you need more then 6-7 shells you are screwed to begin with .
You're moving the goalposts, which is what you do because you apparently enjoy engaging in thread destroying garbage posting behavior. It would be swell if you could stop that.
I would wager there are very few people using Saiga 12's with 20 round drum mags (the ones in the above video) loaded with dragon's breath for home defense.
Nostromodamus wrote: I would wager there are very few people using Saiga 12's with 20 round drum mags (the ones in the above video) loaded with dragon's breath for home defense.
I'm pretty sure dragons breath shells are of limited legality. I don't think they are legal in my state, for example.
Nostromodamus wrote: I would wager there are very few people using Saiga 12's with 20 round drum mags (the ones in the above video) loaded with dragon's breath for home defense.
and you are saying that with a serious voice too? there are many of those videos out there and it is very discomfitting, especially the gun range in the second video.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ouze wrote: You're moving the goalposts, which is what you do because you apparently enjoy engaging in thread destroying garbage posting behavior. It would be swell if you could stop that.
also to make note California is about to pass a law that limits magazines to 10 rounds.
no, its just that the shooter in Orlando took a lot longer to do what he did then that guy took to shoot all 100 of those rounds.
as to where dragon's breath is legal or not, these are the locations it is not legal in, in the USA.
Hawaii, Alaska, Massachusetts, Conneticut, Washington D.C., Los Angeles CA, Cook County IL, and New York City.
And I did caveat the 00 buckshot/shotgun with the premise that it would be..messier...up close and personal. But again, it still has spread and there is potential for a person to be hit by only one of the buckshot pellets...which is what I was comparing...one pellet at 60grs and 1350fps bs being hit with a 115grs 9mm at 1100fps. The 115 is going to be more damaging as it is nearly 100% bigger.
ScootyPuffJunior wrote: Why am I not surprised that this once very cool thread has suddenly taken a turn for the worse...
Can we get back to talking about firearms instead of bickering about dumb gak before this thread gets locked?
we are talking about firearms, unless you do not think shotguns are firearms?
It is a thread talking about firearms and their uses, sharing collections that we own, getting tips for practical uses, and so forth.
Then people started gakposting, throwing out stupid facts, dragging politics into the thread where every other member has been able to follow the "no politics rule", and despite a handful of threads being locked with red text to basically "STFU about Orlando" it has once again been brought up in a thread that has nothing to do with this thread because none of us "own these firearms to use to shoot up gay clubs in Orlando".
But hey, at least we let ourselves get trolled. So people got that going for them, which is nice.
The proliferation of people posting videos of themselves doing mag dumps and firing specialty ammunition does not mean that's what most people use for home defense.
Especially if you know what you're doing and have basic shotgun training/experience, which I'm starting to think certain people in this thread do not have and are either massively ignorant of reality and/or trolling.
In any case, I shall participate in this potentially derailing tangent no longer.
TheMeanDM wrote: And I did caveat the 00 buckshot/shotgun with the premise that it would be..messier...up close and personal. But again, it still has spread and there is potential for a person to be hit by only one of the buckshot pellets...which is what I was comparing...one pellet at 60grs and 1350fps bs being hit with a 115grs 9mm at 1100fps. The 115 is going to be more damaging as it is nearly 100% bigger.
problem is 00 is not even the nastiest of shotgun shells, they have Flechette rounds which are just down right wrong and while banned in more locations then the dragons breath are still permitted in a great many locations and flechette rounds in a crowded location like a nightclub would just be downright inhumane, then you have bolo rounds (yeah bolos that shoot out of a shotgun shell) are not nice, and then you have door buster rounds basically for taking down doors and not beyond them, then you have flash bang shotgun shells and bull dog shotgun shells (6 00 pellets with a slug) and even flare rounds and much more and other then the flechette rounds all are legal where I live in California.
Asterios wrote: we are talking about firearms, unless you do not think shotguns are firearms?
No, you're ruining this thread with your gak posting, goal-post moving, and bickering (much like you do in most threads).
So fething stop it before the mods lock the thread.
CptJake wrote: I'm waiting on my newest to be built and sent. Hopefully in a couple of weeks I can show off some pictures.
I'm still waiting for the shop to finish Cerakoting my receivers so I can start making progress on my .300 AAC build. I have all of the parts to build out the lower and I need to order the barrel and handguard for the upper.
Yeah, it is gonna be another evil black weapon of war.
ScootyPuffJunior wrote: Why am I not surprised that this once very cool thread has suddenly taken a turn for the worse...
Can we get back to talking about firearms instead of bickering about dumb gak before this thread gets locked?
we are talking about firearms, unless you do not think shotguns are firearms?
It is a thread talking about firearms and their uses, sharing collections that we own, getting tips for practical uses, and so forth.
Then people started gakposting, throwing out stupid facts, dragging politics into the thread where every other member has been able to follow the "no politics rule", and despite a handful of threads being locked with red text to basically "STFU about Orlando" it has once again been brought up in a thread that has nothing to do with this thread because none of us "own these firearms to use to shoot up gay clubs in Orlando".
But hey, at least we let ourselves get trolled. So people got that going for them, which is nice.
so you are assuming I have none of the weapons i have mentioned? really? I never mentioned what I had or didn't have, and this all started because of someone asking a question who wasn't me.
ScootyPuffJunior wrote: I'm still waiting for the shop to finish Cerakoting my receivers so I can start making progress on my .300 AAC build. I have all of the parts to build out the lower and I need to order the barrel and handguard for the upper.
I had wanted to build a .308 AR for the longest time. Now that suppressors are legal in Iowa I think I've changed my mind though.. now I'm thinking a .300 AAC as well.
How do you guys with Blackout keep your magazines segregated? The only concern I'd have would be accidentally loading a blackout round into a 5.56 chamber.
CptJake wrote: I'm waiting on my newest to be built and sent. Hopefully in a couple of weeks I can show off some pictures.
I'm still waiting for the shop to finish Cerakoting my receivers so I can start making progress on my .300 AAC build. I have all of the parts to build out the lower and I need to order the barrel and handguard for the upper.
Yeah, it is gonna be another evil black weapon of war.
Don't antagonize!
Let me clarify, an evil black weapon of the Zombie War.
CptJake wrote: I'm waiting on my newest to be built and sent. Hopefully in a couple of weeks I can show off some pictures.
I'm still waiting for the shop to finish Cerakoting my receivers so I can start making progress on my .300 AAC build. I have all of the parts to build out the lower and I need to order the barrel and handguard for the upper.
Oooooooooooh nice!
I need to get back into what handgun I'm going to buy... I've been holding off as I've been so indecisive.
TheMeanDM wrote: Did not realize there were shotgun magazines. Interesting!
Break too shotguns whether single barrel or side by side or over under double barrel don't have magazines. Pump action shotguns have tube magazines, the tube under the barrel that the fore end slides along. That's what the pump action does you pump a round from the tube magazine into the chamber and eject the empty case. Some semi auto shotguns have tube magazines and some have box magazines like a semi auto rifle.
CptJake wrote: I'm waiting on my newest to be built and sent. Hopefully in a couple of weeks I can show off some pictures.
I'm still waiting for the shop to finish Cerakoting my receivers so I can start making progress on my .300 AAC build. I have all of the parts to build out the lower and I need to order the barrel and handguard for the upper.
Oooooooooooh nice!
I need to get back into what handgun I'm going to buy... I've been holding off as I've been so indecisive.
it depends on what you want in a hand gun, if you want simple and decent a glock is ok, if you want fast firing power the AR-15 Pistol is there, if you want stopping power you have the .50 Desert eagle (accuracy not so great), as it goes when it comes to handguns there are so many variants for so many different uses you should go in with an intention of what you need.
This thread exists purely so I can pop in every so often and look at lovely firearms.
And I guess so the rest of you can share/talk about your collections as well.
I don't come in here expecting to see people even tangentially mentioning things like Orlando and what not. Keep the discussion civil and on topic or you're out of the OT for a while.
Now, there was mention of a zombie war weapon? Pictures pleaaaase
I do not like misinformation or misleading information so I wanted to come to the "experts" and ask your opinions about the information from Nugent and how my thoughts about his information was incorrect.
I am happy to be educated about subjects that I dont know a great deal about..and I have definitely learned some things from this discussion.
I have purposely not brought anything political into this..so as to not disturb the waters. Hell...I expressed solidarity with a good majority of responsible gun owners and still feel a little bit...attacked?...when all I have been doing is factually discussing weapons and ammunition (and their potential).
My apologies if you thougjt I had an agenda other than clarifying some things and gathering a bit of a consensus on an issue.
Good call, I actually need to get another machete because mine is my grandfather's and I'm increasingly concerned about using it (I chopped down a bunch of overgrowth in my backyard with it the other day) because it's pretty old.
CptJake wrote: I'm waiting on my newest to be built and sent. Hopefully in a couple of weeks I can show off some pictures.
I'm still waiting for the shop to finish Cerakoting my receivers so I can start making progress on my .300 AAC build. I have all of the parts to build out the lower and I need to order the barrel and handguard for the upper.
Oooooooooooh nice!
I need to get back into what handgun I'm going to buy... I've been holding off as I've been so indecisive.
Go to a reputable store and check out Glocks, Sigs and M&Ps. I'm partial to M&Ps mainly because they're great in .45 but I know plenty of people whose opinion I respect who love Glocks and Sigs. If you want versatility I would check out the Sig P226, it's a very cost effective way to shoot multiple calibers.
I have extensive experience with Glock and S&W M&P, I would recommend either in a heartbeat. I trust both 100%. Whatever you decide on, definitely handle before buying and shoot if you can.
Ill be doing more research than just here, but I am looking for a smaller pistol for concealed carry using sneaky pete cell phone case holsters with my concealed carry. Here is an example http://www.sneakypeteholsters.com/cz-belt-loop-holsters/.
Now I know next to nothing about small pistols used for this. I am used to medium powered rifles and higher powered pistols. I keep a .38 S&W in my jeep that would not fall into the small pistol category in my opinion. Realizing that something small enough for this would be nothing more than a holdout pistol, I was thinking 9mm. Whats a good 9mm small pistol that's reliable and relatively cheap, or at least a direction to look in before I spend time driving from place to place looking for one to get my hands on(Because its a gun store, why would you call instead of going to physically see the eye candy)? Doesn't need to be a big name.
Now I know next to nothing about small pistols used for this. I am used to medium powered rifles and higher powered pistols. I keep a .38 S&W in my jeep that would not fall into the small pistol category in my opinion. Realizing that something small enough for this would be nothing more than a holdout pistol, I was thinking 9mm. Whats a good 9mm small pistol that's reliable and relatively cheap, or at least a direction to look in before I spend time driving from place to place looking for one to get my hands on(Because its a gun store, why would you call instead of going to physically see the eye candy)? Doesn't need to be a big name.
I actually bought two Sneaky Pete holsters and returned both of them just a couple of weeks ago.
I have a Glock 26 (9mm sub compact) and a Kimber Solo Carry (9mm). I generally use an in the waistband tuck-able Galco holster, but figured for summer months maybe one of those on the belt Sneaky Pete things would work. I found that for both of my pistols I bought them for, they were just too big. They looked like I was carrying something big on my belt and I could not place them where my elbow was not smacking them and yet they were where I could grab the pistol. The Kimber is smaller than the Glock, but even it felt awkward to me on the belt. Sneaky Pete does take returns, but you eat the shipping cost (the original from the order and what it costs to ship back) so I would recommend taping a paperback copy of The Stand or something to your belt and seeing if you like it there before you buy.
BUT to address your question about the guns... Both of mine felt too big on the belt for me (though both are complete comfortable in the Galco holsters). Knowing that, I would be looking at tiny .380s. My neighbor has some tiny .380 he carries in a cell phone case on his belt (which is where I got the idea to try Sneaky Pete holsters). For a 9mm, maybe try the new Glock 43 (single stack sub compact) or the Berreta Nano. You really want something tiny if it is going to be on your belt and look like a cell phone (in my opinion). Definitely hold everything you consider and test fire if possible. Some folks hate the lack of a safety lever on Glocks.
S&W M&P Shield. Available in 9mm and very slim, I love mine. Anything smaller I find difficult to shoot effectively as I can't get a proper grip on it. Everyone thinks tiny is the way to go for CC but it's just not true. Even full sized handguns gan conceal easily with the right clothing.
As to those holsters I'm not a fan. I prefer something that holds the pistol tight to the body and orients it to facilitate a firm grip and swift, fluid draw. I've handled those cell phone holsters and they are cumbersome in comparison to a proper leather or kydex holster made for your specific model of firearm.
Nostromodamus wrote: S&W M&P Shield. Available in 9mm and very slim, I love mine.
As to those holsters I'm not a fan. I prefer something that holds the pistol tight to the body and orients it to facilitate a firm grip and swift, fluid draw. I've handled those cell phone holsters and they are cumbersome in comparison to a proper leather or kydex holster made for your specific model of firearm.
Slim does not matter with the Sneaky Pete holster in my opinion (the Kimber is VERY slim), the over all dimensions (complete the rectangle defined by handle and barrel making two sides) is what determines how big the darned holster is. Slim helps when carrying against the body though.
Nostromodamus wrote: S&W M&P Shield. Available in 9mm and very slim, I love mine.
As to those holsters I'm not a fan. I prefer something that holds the pistol tight to the body and orients it to facilitate a firm grip and swift, fluid draw. I've handled those cell phone holsters and they are cumbersome in comparison to a proper leather or kydex holster made for your specific model of firearm.
Slim does not matter with the Sneaky Pete holster in my opinion (the Kimber is VERY slim), the over all dimensions (complete the rectangle defined by handle and barrel making two sides) is what determines how big the darned holster is. Slim helps when carrying against the body though.
Ruger LCP would probably be a good fit for one of them, maybe even an LC9.
I'd suggest finding a handgun that fits your hand well and that you can effectively shoot, then finding a holster to fit that gun, rather than trying to find a micro pistol that you might not be able to operate well to fit a holster that is arguably a novelty solution.
I do not like misinformation or misleading information so I wanted to come to the "experts" and ask your opinions about the information from Nugent and how my thoughts about his information was incorrect.
I am happy to be educated about subjects that I dont know a great deal about..and I have definitely learned some things from this discussion.
I have purposely not brought anything political into this..so as to not disturb the waters. Hell...I expressed solidarity with a good majority of responsible gun owners and still feel a little bit...attacked?...when all I have been doing is factually discussing weapons and ammunition (and their potential).
My apologies if you thougjt I had an agenda other than clarifying some things and gathering a bit of a consensus on an issue.
FWIW, I've read through the thread from the point you asked about ol' Teddy Nugs,,,, and I'd say that you are fine. It's certain other poster(s) who were trying to ruin the fun for everyone else.
I find myself still wanting more guns, but my current situation doesn't really allow for more (I'm in between school semesters, so I've got a minimum wage job to hold the fort down until I get beck in class... which means I can just slightly, barely, if I'm really careful, afford my plastic crack habit )
Nostromodamus wrote: S&W M&P Shield. Available in 9mm and very slim, I love mine. Anything smaller I find difficult to shoot effectively as I can't get a proper grip on it. Everyone thinks tiny is the way to go for CC but it's just not true. Even full sized handguns gan conceal easily with the right clothing.
As to those holsters I'm not a fan. I prefer something that holds the pistol tight to the body and orients it to facilitate a firm grip and swift, fluid draw. I've handled those cell phone holsters and they are cumbersome in comparison to a proper leather or kydex holster made for your specific model of firearm.
Agreed. The Shield is a nice small gun. I wouldn't want to use anything more compact than that. I tried a few subcompacts and even in 9mm they felt snappy and the grips are uncomfortably short.
A DShK heavy machine gun, used on Soviet/ Eastern European vehicles. This is in its long barrel AA mount configuration.
Of course the suppressor and home made looking stock (can never tell with post-Soviet stuff...) come extra. That looks like they've retrofitted that whole midsection (with something looking like its from a Russian 12.7 anti-material rifle, but logically they'd only do that if the original gun was wrecked). The box magazine is usually on the other side.
...If that is a box mag on the site that thing would have a silly capacity. 0.0
I do like my LCP, but I admit that it isn't for everyone.
But it also has the benefit of fitting into any pocket I ever tried to put it in, so it's probably one of the least likely guns that would need a holster like that.
d-usa wrote: I do like my LCP, but I admit that it isn't for everyone.
But it also has the benefit of fitting into any pocket I ever tried to put it in, so it's probably one of the least likely guns that would need a holster like that.
Do people even still use phone belt cases?
have you seen that gun they made that folds up like a phone?
If Samsung keeps on increasing the size of their phones, we will be able to pocket carry full size guns in rectangle pocket holsters in a few years and nobody will be suspicious.
So there I am, minding my own business. Have a couple racks of ribs and a couple turkey breasts on the smoker. Turkey needs to hit 165 internal temp to be done. It is at about 143. And then it happened.
I hear this insistent voice in my head calling me up to the room with the gun safe. I go up and my damned HK MR556 absolutely DEMANDS to be let out to destroy and kill. Before I know it I have it, mag inserted along with one of the 9mm pistols and a couple of mags and I find myself doing speed fire drills. Starting at 25m with the HK and then moving up to 10m with the pistol. I hope the HK's lust for destruction is quenched for a while.
3 rounds from the pistol missed the target (hit low on the metal). 18 inch target. Not bad for under 3 minutes of shooting, but clearly I do need some more practice. Damned headphone hearing protection I'm using messes up my cheek weld and DINGS when the HK recoils. It is a bit distracting.
Oh, and for the record I was actually aiming between head and red center with the rifle... Pistol I was aiming center but was clearly a bit off.
Hope you all get to chuck some metal downrange this weekend!
I am blessed. I have a 100 meter lane I use as a range on my property. Landlord has dumped about 10 dump truck loads of dirt to build up a berm at the far end (and brings more all the time) and cleared out some brush for me.
It is about 150m from the house, so as long as I'm not feeling too lazy I shoot at least a couple of mags through at least one of the pistols each week, often considerably more.
Have a buddy coming for dinner this afternoon though so could not commit a lot of time...
Land lord is having a house built a few hundred yards away up on a hill. A couple of weeks ago a crew was laying cinder block to get the walls for the basement in and I went out shooting. Zeroed a sight on the HK and then blew through 3 magazines and then fired pistols too. I guess on the last HK mag I was firing quickly and was in general making a racket. The crew asked my land lord what was up and he told them "Oh, thats Jake. You really don't want to come on the property when you're not supposed to, he keeps an eye on things for me."
I laughed when he told me about it. He has had problems in the past where folks on the property to do some work have come back at a later date to rip him off. He likes me being around and encourages me to shoot as much as I want. He shoots with me too once in a while and I've helped a couple of his friends learn some basics too.
Alas, 100 meter shooting is only available through clubs around here, and they all have eternally long wait lists, with the other ranges largely being 20-25 yard indoor places :(
Alas, 100 meter shooting is only available through clubs around here, and they all have eternally long wait lists, with the other ranges largely being 20-25 yard indoor places :(
This.
I can shoot smaller calibers (.22 and 9mm) on my property, but the only local rifle range is a private club with a 100 range and a problem with younger people
. I did however buy a new US built 
I'd note I have the mag with the pinkie extension loaded, with a full size spare with the grip pad.
