I too am 200% jelly. I only have 2 real options here: the first is an indoor range, which is not without it's charms - it has AC and you can bring your own ammo - but it's like $20 an hour and pistols only.
The other option is a state run public range, which is about 30 minutes away. That one is 100 yards max, which is fine since I'm a terrible shot, but since it's public you get people with a wide range of uh, experience and discipline. There is sometimes a RSO there but not often enough for my liking. I always feel not particularly safe there.
I also have a state run range near me, but you have to either have a hunting license or pay $30 for a year, and follow hunting regulations: no more than 3 rounds in a rifle, and 6 in a pistol. Who likes shooting an AK with only 3 rounds?
Range in my yard. I have a 7-8 foot berm where I built a bulletcatch inside of with a down angled 1/2 steel plate backed by poured concrete with cinder block walled filled with poured concrete, all covered with a lot of dirt. My range is a little more than 100m. My short range is 25m and in the shade. I have leveled the ground at the 25 and the 100 is on my driveway.
My landlord used the blade on the front end loader to level out the whole lane I shoot on. The only real issue is there is a bit of a dip right before the dirt berm and if I get rain for more than a day that ground holds water and then is pretty sticky mud for a few days.
Not too big a deal. Caused by putting the blade down right at the base of the berm and scraping back up the firing lane.
TheMeanDM wrote: If you arent a resident of a state can you buy in that state and then take it home?
IIRC, it depends on the state, and your residency.
For instance, I lived in TN, but was able to buy a gun in Kentucky, whilst not being a "resident" of either state, via flashing my military orders in the shop. Many of my civilian friends who were residents of either TN or KY, told me that they were able to buy firearms in either state, due to some reciprocity type agreement between the two.
TheMeanDM wrote: If you arent a resident of a state can you buy in that state and then take it home?
IIRC, it depends on the state, and your residency.
For instance, I lived in TN, but was able to buy a gun in Kentucky, whilst not being a "resident" of either state, via flashing my military orders in the shop. Many of my civilian friends who were residents of either TN or KY, told me that they were able to buy firearms in either state, due to some reciprocity type agreement between the two.
non-NFA items... yes, reciprocity would be in play for various states.
For "NFA" items, I'm *pretty* sure that if your state prohibit them, then it's baned... unless it's grandfather'ed in some way.
TheMeanDM wrote: If you arent a resident of a state can you buy in that state and then take it home?
If you're asking about Illinois: you can purchase it there but it must be transferred to an Iowa FFL. I bought my 1911 in Illinois but I had to pick it up at a pawn shop in Iowa.
If it's a handgun or from a private individual, no, you cannot buy it in another state, you must take possession through an FFL in your state, and your state's laws would apply.
If it's a long gun, then you *can* buy it out of state (*IF* both your own state and the state you are making the purchase in have no laws against it, many do however), but if the long gun is illegal in your home state (for example, say a Colt AR15 or an Arsenal SLR and you live in California), you can't take it home with you (leave it at grandma's or something).
Form 4's for NFA items are approved based on the state where you reside, so if it's illegal where you live the ATF will deny your Form 4 application.
ScootyPuffJunior wrote: Also, Fostech makes a 18" barreled version if that suits your fancy.
It does not :( the 18" barrel just makes it look kind of like a fancier Saiga, vs a Bolter.
It's alright, a 12ga shotgun with the stock removed for the 100% bolter look would probably be murder on your wrists anyway.
There is a legal loophole to get the short-barreled version in Iowa. Buy it as a pistol-grip only shotgun. By legal definition, a short-barreled shotgun must first be a shotgun. A shotgun MUST have, or at one time had, a butt stock. So, legally speaking, a shotgun that has never had a stock is NOT a shotgun at all, and thus can not be a short-barreled shotgun. You may put any length barrel on it you want, just keep the over-all length above 26 inches and it isn't an Any-Other-Weapon either. No forms, no permits, 100% legal.
I brought this up at the local gun store, in front of a Sherriff's deputy. After a blank look the owner whipped out his book of regulations and the two of them cross referenced the laws, then glanced up with a "dang, that's cool" look.
If you are worried about recoil you can always put a 40k-style muzzle brake on it. I did on my "not a short barrel". I recommend a company called Witt Machine. Most recoil reduction of any muzzle brakes I have ever used. At least a 75% reduction in recoil.
Ouze wrote: Legally, I imagine it would be the same as a Taurus Judge.
Actually, not quite. The Taurus gets around the short-barreled rules by having rifling and having a duel chambering (it can short .45 LC too). That's why it can be under 26 inches long. With this shotgun you would need to keep the overall length over 26 inches in order to be legal.
Purely for laughs, if there was a Taurus Judge that was chambered in 20-gauge would anyone be interested?
It got me thinking of the Kingsman movie. In it, when Eggsey is neing introduced to the weaponry, his mentor mentions that their handgun shoots shotgun shells. Thought that was just a fantastical movie/comic weapon....nope!! (well, perhaps in the physical weapon size they were using--roughly 9mm)
I've been thinking of getting a stainless Judge to take when we go kayaking. A lot of cottonmouths/moccasins and I would like the ability to cap one if I need to. Generally they are happy on their log in the sun, but we've had a couple get aggressive.
CptJake wrote: I've been thinking of getting a stainless Judge to take when we go kayaking. A lot of cottonmouths/moccasins and I would like the ability to cap one if I need to. Generally they are happy on their log in the sun, but we've had a couple get aggressive.
I have a stainless Judge with a 6 inch barrel, my dad has one with a 3 inch barrel. With a 3 inch shell in them they kick like heck. The extra three inches on my gun really keeps the spreading shots in a tighter group. As far as a snake-gun, Yeah it'd work pretty good. If you get one you might be interested in chamber inserts. They are basically 2.5 or 3 inch rifled inserts for the cylinder that will allow you shoot other calibers (they just pass down the barrel without touching it). I've been tempted to get the .22 LR inserts so I can use my Judge as a hiking and camping gun. I can keep two slots filled with 45LC +P and two with buckshot for cougar attacks, one slot with birdshot for snakes. When I want to bag a squirrel I can switch to 22LR.
I also found some interesting self defense rounds. They are shotgun shells (3 inch). In each one they have 5 lead disks that look like watch batteries (each is 115 grains)and 5 pieces of 00 buckshot. Has enough powder to get to 1350 feet per second. Basically, it's like getting shot 5 times with a 9mm, plus some extra buckshot. The disks are so flat that they basically act like hollow points with minimal penetration and maximum distortion.
If your looking to save money for a snake gun take a look at a Super Comanche 45/410. If you drop it into the lake or river you won't lose to much sleep. It won't win a beauty contest but will go bang every time. My father picked up one for rabbit hunting several years ago think he payed under $150. It's only single shot so not the best choice for home defense if you want to use it for duel purpose.
Chute82 wrote: If your looking to save money for a snake gun take a look at a Super Comanche 45/410. If you drop it into the lake or river you won't lose to much sleep. It won't win a beauty contest but will go bang every time. My father picked up one for rabbit hunting several years ago think he payed under $150. It's only single shot so not the best choice for home defense if you want to use it for duel purpose.
I'll look at that. I would prefer something stainless as it will be used around water and is likely to get wet. Not looking for dual purpose. Between the dogs, hard to get to house, locked gates and my general bad disposition I probably have home defense covered.
Chute82 wrote: If your looking to save money for a snake gun take a look at a Super Comanche 45/410. If you drop it into the lake or river you won't lose to much sleep. It won't win a beauty contest but will go bang every time. My father picked up one for rabbit hunting several years ago think he payed under $150. It's only single shot so not the best choice for home defense if you want to use it for duel purpose.
I'll look at that. I would prefer something stainless as it will be used around water and is likely to get wet. Not looking for dual purpose. Between the dogs, hard to get to house, locked gates and my general bad disposition I probably have home defense covered.
Cover it in Vaseline like we did with our weapons in Panama. You can buy 3 or 4 Comanche for the price of a SS judge plus if you leave it somewhere nobody will steal it
I finally got the receivers for my .300 AAC build back from the shop yesterday and it turned out great! I went ahead and color-filled the roll marks but I'm not entirely sure what I want to do with the zombie head yet so I left it as is. I have all the parts for the lower already so I might put it together later today and slap it on another completed upper I have and take it to the range to see how it works.
For the AR fans out there, I bought a Mossberg MMR. Go ahead and roll your eyes at my cheap-o AR. The biggest complaint with the MMR is that the trigger feels gritty to the point of annoyance.
I was thinking of buying a Timney Trigger to drop into it. I love the Timney I have in my Mosin Nagant, and I know it would be cool in the MMR. However, is putting a $160 trigger in a $550 rifle worth it?
cuda1179 wrote: I was thinking of buying a Timney Trigger to drop into it. I love the Timney I have in my Mosin Nagant, and I know it would be cool in the MMR. However, is putting a $160 trigger in a $550 rifle worth it?
A Timney trigger is worth the money but I guess it would depend on what you're using the rifle for and how often you use it.
Of course, you could always go a little cheaper and get something like an ALG Defense trigger.
ScootyPuffJunior wrote: I finally got the receivers for my .300 AAC build back from the shop yesterday and it turned out great! I went ahead and color-filled the roll marks but I'm not entirely sure what I want to do with the zombie head yet so I left it as is. I have all the parts for the lower already so I might put it together later today and slap it on another completed upper I have and take it to the range to see how it works.
What furniture do you have in mind? I know you said "a zombie theme".
Ouze wrote: What furniture do you have in mind? I know you said "a zombie theme".
I've got a "zombie hunter" dust cover and even though my lower parts kit came with a polymer Magpul Enhanced Trigger Guard, I'll probably get a laser etched one with zombie something or other on it.
cuda1179 wrote: For the AR fans out there, I bought a Mossberg MMR. Go ahead and roll your eyes at my cheap-o AR. The biggest complaint with the MMR is that the trigger feels gritty to the point of annoyance.
I was thinking of buying a Timney Trigger to drop into it. I love the Timney I have in my Mosin Nagant, and I know it would be cool in the MMR. However, is putting a $160 trigger in a $550 rifle worth it?
Was putting a $160 trigger in a $60 rifle worth it?
But in all seriousness - if you just want a better-than-USGI trigger, try ALG's ACT trigger. It's not fancy (no 2-stage or anything) but it feels like a very well broken in USGI trigger with minimal creep.
Yeah, my Mosin 9130 has more than just a Timney Trigger in it. Rock Solid Scope mount with bent bolt handle and trigger shoe, Witt Machine Muzzle brake, Duracoat, Archangel stock, and a 6-24 power scope.
For those that say Mosins aren't accurate, I am shooting 1 inch groups at 150 yards. After about 20 rounds though they start to stray as the barrel warms up.
Hah, I had a Mosin blow up on me about nine years ago. Blew brass through my throat, some powder through my left eye and stripped one finger down to the bone (yikes).
They are good guns, just a few words of warning on them. Check behind the lugs on the bolt, I have had a few come into the shop with cracks behind them due to improper heat treat. And, if you have a rough feed ramp, have a gunsmith polish it for you. That was one of the main causes of mine blowing, bullet didn't slide up the ramp well and got pushed back into case compressing the powder.
Well, late to this forum but, I have a mostly rotating collection of firearms. Mainly rifle receivers I am doing builds off of.
Here's a little gun porn of my projects for you guys!
In related news, I ordered the barrel for my .300 BLK build and I'm pretty excited about it. The only things I have left to get for it are the BCG, handguard, muzzle device, and gas system! I have a pretty pricey commission that I'm going to finish up within the next couple months that will pay for all of that stuff and more so it's only a matter of time...
NH Gunsmith wrote: Hah, I had a Mosin blow up on me about nine years ago. Blew brass through my throat, some powder through my left eye and stripped one finger down to the bone (yikes).
They are good guns, just a few words of warning on them. Check behind the lugs on the bolt, I have had a few come into the shop with cracks behind them due to improper heat treat. And, if you have a rough feed ramp, have a gunsmith polish it for you. That was one of the main causes of mine blowing, bullet didn't slide up the ramp well and got pushed back into case compressing the powder.
Well, late to this forum but, I have a mostly rotating collection of firearms. Mainly rifle receivers I am doing builds off of.
Here's a little gun porn of my projects for you guys!
Very cool stuff, I look forward to seeing that 6.5 Mauser, I always liked that particular caliber.
Well, I just had an impulse buy. I have a lot of 45 Long Colt ammo around. I want another weapon to shoot it with, so I went out looking for a double action revolver. Double action in 45 limits me to basically a Ruger Redhawk and a Smith and Wesson.
So.... I began looking for revolvers in .454 casull, and .460 Smith and Wesson. Just a little more money, can still fire the 45 LC, but I can have a hand cannon when I so choose.
While I might still get one, I found something else on gunbroker that tripped my trigger. I found a new Rossi M92 lever action rifle. 16 inch stainless barrel with the enlarged lever loop. I ended up snagging it for $290 plus shipping. Too good of a deal to pass up.
As suppressors just recently became legal here I have been debating getting (and making) some. There is a suppressor kit from Preppers Discount where you can turn a Maglite Flashlight into a suppressor for a .22. It seems to work really well for that round, and I'd love to suppress my .22 Uzi.
As for something a little more serious, I was considering getting a 300 Blackout barrel for my AR-15 and suppressing that as well for when I hunt coyote or wild boar.
cuda1179 wrote: As suppressors just recently became legal here I have been debating getting (and making) some. There is a suppressor kit from Preppers Discount where you can turn a Maglite Flashlight into a suppressor for a .22...
I don't think manufacturing is lawful here, just purchasing... right?
cuda1179 wrote: As suppressors just recently became legal here I have been debating getting (and making) some. There is a suppressor kit from Preppers Discount where you can turn a Maglite Flashlight into a suppressor for a .22...
I don't think manufacturing is lawful here, just purchasing... right?
I think you can make your own just as long as you register your plans with the ATF before even attempting the build. That would require some money, and a few months wait.
cuda1179 wrote: As suppressors just recently became legal here I have been debating getting (and making) some. There is a suppressor kit from Preppers Discount where you can turn a Maglite Flashlight into a suppressor for a .22...
I don't think manufacturing is lawful here, just purchasing... right?
cuda1179 wrote: As suppressors just recently became legal here I have been debating getting (and making) some. There is a suppressor kit from Preppers Discount where you can turn a Maglite Flashlight into a suppressor for a .22. It seems to work really well for that round, and I'd love to suppress my .22 Uzi.
As for something a little more serious, I was considering getting a 300 Blackout barrel for my AR-15 and suppressing that as well for when I hunt coyote or wild boar.
Given the amount of time it takes to get your form back plus the $200 stamp it probably makes more sense just to shell out for something off the shelf than make it tbh
OK looking for a pistol for concealed carry. Down to two options. Both are roughly similar in price. Both are 9mm and are roughly the same size class.
Sig P320 9mm or a Glock 19 gen4 in 9mm. Anyone know any pros or cons of either?
Both are nice pistols, the Glock is more utilitarian looking but has far more accessories and aftermarket support, the Sig is a little nicer to handle and look at but has nowhere near the aftermarket support for things like mags and hoksters. You cant go wrong with either, its really the subjective secondary qualities that will decide that.
Col. Dash wrote: OK looking for a pistol for concealed carry. Down to two options. Both are roughly similar in price. Both are 9mm and are roughly the same size class.
Sig P320 9mm or a Glock 19 gen4 in 9mm. Anyone know any pros or cons of either?
As someone who has only just recently a) bought my first pistol, b) started carrying said pistol here is what I found to be helpful.
1.) Go to the range and rent a few different pistols in a few different calibers.
2.) Find the gun that fits you and that you can shoot well
3.) Shortlist some choices and work out what sacrifices you can comfortably make. Full size v compact v subcompact. Striker v DA/SA v revolver. Safety v no safety. And so many others
4.) Do some research from credible sources - is the gun reliable, have other owners found issues with them, is there anything that the gun is missing that you might have to factor into your budget (trigger, sights, etc.)
5.) Budget. What does the pistol cost? How much is the ammo? How much is a good quality holster? How much are cleaning products?
6.) Storage. Where do you plan on keeping the gun if not on you? This is probably more important for those with younger families
7.) Take a training class. I found this really useful when I was still deciding on a pistol, and the class that I took had my primary choice (M&P9C) available to use during the class. This let me try out the pistol with a qualified instructor to help me decide if it was what I wanted.
8.) When you buy the pistol and if you decide to carry then get a good quality holster. Again after much research I settled on an AlienGear holster.
9.) Take the time to set up your holster so it is comfortable. I had to raise the clip on one side of mine to offset the cant and conceal it better. Also when wearing the holster I pulled the belt a notch tighter than I normally wear it because on my first carry I did not do this and the holster shifted a little.
10.) For semi automatics have at least one spare magazine. Murphy's Law means that it will fail when it is most inconvenient and the extra mag will help get it back into operation.
Before I settled on the M&P9C I shot the XDS9, Sig P938, FNX9, XD45, Shield, H&K VP9, Sig 1911, Glock 19, and the M&P9 full size. So there were a lot of range trips there, and I went with a pistol that fit my hand well and matched my criteria.
Col. Dash wrote: OK looking for a pistol for concealed carry. Down to two options. Both are roughly similar in price. Both are 9mm and are roughly the same size class. Sig P320 9mm or a Glock 19 gen4 in 9mm. Anyone know any pros or cons of either?
I gave away my Glock 19 when I got my Glock 26. The 19 was too big for comfortable conceal carry on my frame.
Some folks do not like the lack of external safety on Glocks (my wife for example loves the way my 26 shoots, but refuses to carry a gun without an external safety, so we got her a Kimber Solo Carry).
I'm not familiar with the SIG. I like the G19, it shot well, but I like my 26 a LOT more, and at the ranges I would need it if stuff goes sideways, it is as accurate as the 19.
A full size is usually too large for concealed carry. Look for a compact.
I'm a rather large guy, and even I don't concealed carry with a full size (usually). From April through early November my gun of choice is a Taurus 709 Slim. Why? Well, it's reliable, has an external (yet easily accessible) safety, and it is so small I can stick it in the pocket of my shorts without printing. I use a pocket holster only. I like just wearing a t-shirt and shorts while still having it handy. As an added bonus, it's cheap enough that if I bang it around it doesn't bother me too much.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Question of the day, At what point does having "accessories" on your firearm go from useful to just plain tacky? Personally I think that you are allowed fewer items on wood-furniture rifles than you are polymer ones. That's especially true for older-style weapons. I saw someone with red dot on a 30-30 Henry rifle.....and it just seemed like sacrilege.
Col. Dash wrote: OK looking for a pistol for concealed carry. Down to two options. Both are roughly similar in price. Both are 9mm and are roughly the same size class.
Sig P320 9mm or a Glock 19 gen4 in 9mm. Anyone know any pros or cons of either?
Being a Glock owner (G19 and G26) and having shot the Sig, I'd definitely suggest the Sig 320. Much nicer trigger, reset allows you to dry fire practice, and it's modular.
Then again, I'd look into smaller pistols for CC. Give some serious thought to a Gen 4 G26 (smaller than the sub Sig and with a nice Connector like a Ghost Rocket the trigger is pretty good) and the S&W Shield 9 (with or without Apex trigger). The Shield 9 is by far my favorite every day carry piece.
Question of the day, At what point does having "accessories" on your firearm go from useful to just plain tacky? Personally I think that you are allowed fewer items on wood-furniture rifles than you are polymer ones. That's especially true for older-style weapons. I saw someone with red dot on a 30-30 Henry rifle.....and it just seemed like sacrilege.
Personally I usually limit it to 2 items, 3 at the top. I think on something like an AR, a red-dot, flashlight, and maybe a foregrip is reasonable, but probably not much more than that, especially if you don't have a regular dedicated usage for it. A long range gun may get a bipod and a scope, a PCC may get a foregrip and red dot, etc.
Most of my guns just have optics and that's it. I don't think I have a single weapon with more than 2 accessories.
Wood furniture definitely tends to look far more ridiculous with accessories, but red dots I think always work, even if they look wonky. The utility overmatches any goofiness if they're being used for shooting where any sort of stress/duress is expected (be it self defense, competition, hunting, etc.)
Even AR's can be subject to the "too much crap" syndrome. I saw a guy show off his rig: Quad-rail, scope, red dot on 45 degree side mount to left of scope, iron sights on 45 degree mount to the right of scope, magwell grip, forwar pistol grip, muzzle brake, laser sight, flashlight (has to be a C-cell sized light), bipod, and slide-fire stock.
I wondered if he had enough rail space left to mount training wheels to roll it around.
cuda1179 wrote: Even AR's can be subject to the "too much crap" syndrome. I saw a guy show off his rig: Quad-rail, scope, red dot on 45 degree side mount to left of scope, iron sights on 45 degree mount to the right of scope, magwell grip, forwar pistol grip, muzzle brake, laser sight, flashlight (has to be a C-cell sized light), bipod, and slide-fire stock.
I wondered if he had enough rail space left to mount training wheels to roll it around.
Yeah I just laugh at the Tacticool guys. My 300BLK just has red dot, flip up iron sights, adjustable stock and foregrip.
It is a heavy beast. The 13" quadrail was a bad choice in hindsight but whatever. I love it.
I have been debating for years about putting an optic/glass on my M1A Scout, but may just leave it stock. I am very comfortable with iron sights now after special training.
I bought my Mossberg MMR with a quadrail. Personally, I wanted a forward pistol grip, and I liked that it had a free-floating barrel and adjustable stock standard. Other than that the only thing I've put on it are a single point sling mount and so latter style rail covers.
Something for the gun guys to consider. I just purchased a See All open sight. This thing is AWESOME. It's like a red dot and an iron sight had a lovechild. It combines the best aspects of both into a cheap package that is tough and does not require batteries. I highly recommend it.
I got the barrel for my .300 BLK build in the mail on Friday and it's beautiful. Since I just got the second half of the payment from a commission I finished so now I have $700 with which to finish the rifle. I need the BCG, charging handle, handguard, gas system, and muzzle device.
I really can't wait until I'm done building this rifle!
ScootyPuffJunior wrote: I got the barrel for my .300 BLK build in the mail on Friday and it's beautiful. Since I just got the second half of the payment from a commission I finished so now I have $700 with which to finish the rifle. I need the BCG, charging handle, handguard, gas system, and muzzle device.
I really can't wait until I'm done building this rifle!
That's going to be a fun shooter . I finished my 6.8 spc early last year and have wanted to start working on another AR since. Soooo, I bought a Spikes Honey Badger lower a couple months ago and bought a Larue Tactical stealth upper. Sadly I really have no idea how long its going to be before I see my Larue upper so I am half tempted to buy a 300 blk barrel for my extra stripped upper. Where did you get your barrel from? I'm thinking about getting a BCM barrel myself. I really don't need anything super fancy since the 300 blk will be a "just for fun" rifle. The Larue upper will be on it most of the time.
These questions about a particular gun cropped up on another thread, and because I didn't want to drag it OT, and because other dakka members have better gun knowledge than myself, I thought I would ask these questions here:
Pistols from the Napoleonic war/blackpowder era :
What's the average number of shots a trained soldier could fire per minute with a pistol? (assume dry, perfect conditions).
Same question, but with the soldier on horseback. Any difference? Again, assume dry, perfect conditions, and assume horse is stationary.
At the time of the Napoleonic era, weapons were not exactly being advanced as quickly as today. The British Brown Bess musket for example was in use for over 115 years.
Rifled pistols in Napoleon's time did exist, but were not as common as older, cruder designs. The common pistol back then was still smooth bore.
As for your rate of fire question, that actually has two answers. Assuming you start with one shot loaded, a soldier with a smooth bore could put off 3 rounds in a minute if they were decent, 4 if good. If you had a rifled pistol, then things were a little slower. By necessity rifled guns had MUCH tighter tolerances. That means the bullet was the same diameter as the interior of the barrel, so the rifling would work. This extra friction slowed reloading times. My best guess, 2 or 3 shots per minute.
Yes and no IMO. Ultimately, it's for the mods to decide, but obviously, this is a gun discussion thread, and there are a few blackpowder enthusiasts on this forum, so I thought it would be appropriate to ask here.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
CptJake wrote: I doubt you could reload while on horseback. Not if the horse was moving anyways.
I don't know much about reloading black powder weapons, but I do have a bit of time in a saddle.
I've been checking some historical sources, and it's not easy, even if the horse was stationary, as you need one hand on the reigns. Once the pistols had been fired, they were sometimes used as clubs.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
cuda1179 wrote: At the time of the Napoleonic era, weapons were not exactly being advanced as quickly as today. The British Brown Bess musket for example was in use for over 115 years.
Rifled pistols in Napoleon's time did exist, but were not as common as older, cruder designs. The common pistol back then was still smooth bore.
As for your rate of fire question, that actually has two answers. Assuming you start with one shot loaded, a soldier with a smooth bore could put off 3 rounds in a minute if they were decent, 4 if good. If you had a rifled pistol, then things were a little slower. By necessity rifled guns had MUCH tighter tolerances. That means the bullet was the same diameter as the interior of the barrel, so the rifling would work. This extra friction slowed reloading times. My best guess, 2 or 3 shots per minute.
Thanks for that detail. Is it not the case that because of the rifled barrelling, gunpowder would get clogged up in a pistol or rifled musket, and thus increase the chances of an explosion or accident with the barrel?
It's a YHM 16" fluted barrel and I got it from Cheaper Than Dirt.
There are certainly cheaper options out there but I went with a mid-range priced barrel because I had the money in the build for it. I've used other YHM stuff in the past and have always been happy with them. Also, it looked cool, so there's that.
Thanks for that detail. Is it not the case that because of the rifled barrelling, gunpowder would get clogged up in a pistol or rifled musket, and thus increase the chances of an explosion or accident with the barrel?
Well..... yes and no. Gunpowder quality and consistency were a little spotty back then. Sometimes guys were to make their own in the field (yes, there is a way to do it, and it involved peeing into the mix over an open fire).
As long as your weapon was using a decent quality gunpowder, it was crafted correctly, and it was maintained correctly, the chances of it exploding during a single battle are extremely low. However, if the weapon was abused and neglected, allowed to have build-up, was crafted poorly, and you were using some low-grade gunpowder, your chances of a catastrophic failure does rise significantly. However, it was still fairly uncommon for any army because they had inspections of firearms. If this was a quickly made militia using personal arms I could see at least one idiot bringing an old POS.
Did anyone ever see that old Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman movie "Far and Away"? That's the kind of abuse a gun would need for that kind of failure.
Speaking of black powder rifles, anyone every build those self assembly kits? I've towed around the idea for a couple years on getting one but I don't want to spend a few hundred bucks and find out they are junk or worse.
KingCracker wrote: Speaking of black powder rifles, anyone every build those self assembly kits? I've towed around the idea for a couple years on getting one but I don't want to spend a few hundred bucks and find out they are junk or worse.
I built one a couple of years ago. Percussion cap kentucky rifle. Super accurate even with round balls. Highly recommended.
Don't own fire arms, but do own a 20yrs old composite bow. Rusty as hell, and not very useful if someone broke into the house. Not sure a handgun would be anymore useful, nor a rifle. I'd end up shooting holes in the walls at shadows or killing a family member half-sleep in the middle of the night.
heybiff wrote: Don't own fire arms, but do own a 20yrs old composite bow. Rusty as hell, and not very useful if someone broke into the house. Not sure a handgun would be anymore useful, nor a rifle. I'd end up shooting holes in the walls at shadows or killing a family member half-sleep in the middle of the night.
---insert catchy signature here....
Much of that fear can be helped with training, but some people simply aren't cut out for the responsibilities involved with firearm ownership.
heybiff wrote: Don't own fire arms, but do own a 20yrs old composite bow. Rusty as hell, and not very useful if someone broke into the house. Not sure a handgun would be anymore useful, nor a rifle. I'd end up shooting holes in the walls at shadows or killing a family member half-sleep in the middle of the night.
---insert catchy signature here....
As Nostrodamus said, training gets you over that. Adrenaline from such situations will always be a huge factor, but you mitigate it by training. The more comfortable you make yourself with a firearm, the less likely you are to screw things up if you have to use it.
As for that bow, I'd probably get it checked out by a professional before you tried to use it for anything. An ill-kept bow could very easily lead to self injury.
heybiff wrote: Don't own fire arms, but do own a 20yrs old composite bow. Rusty as hell, and not very useful if someone broke into the house. Not sure a handgun would be anymore useful, nor a rifle. I'd end up shooting holes in the walls at shadows or killing a family member half-sleep in the middle of the night.
Indeed, if your post had been to show off a bow well while it wouldn't have been quite on topic I may have let it slide. As it is, please don't bring that into this thread. Just wait for the next gun thread to pop up in the OT at large. Thanks
I own a TC firestorm flintlock and really enjoy deer hunting with it. Harvested a pretty nice buck a few years ago with the flintlock during PA traditional flintlock season. Use to have to shoot ball n patch but PA changed that about 12 years ago so now we can use conicals
I had a friend that moved with his family from upstate New York to Iowa right after he graduated high school. He was into hunting in New York, and wanted to continue in Iowa.
He got a little disappointed when he learned we can't use rifles to hunt deer here. So, after some re-training with a shotgun I took him out. He was very proud of his kill, but the rest of us were a little shocked. From our perspective he had killed a juvenile buck, barely 2/3 grown. He thought it was decent sized.
I guess the Midwest is just more conductive to growing large deer.
cuda1179 wrote: I had a friend that moved with his family from upstate New York to Iowa right after he graduated high school. He was into hunting in New York, and wanted to continue in Iowa.
He got a little disappointed when he learned we can't use rifles to hunt deer here. So, after some re-training with a shotgun I took him out. He was very proud of his kill, but the rest of us were a little shocked. From our perspective he had killed a juvenile buck, barely 2/3 grown. He thought it was decent sized.
I guess the Midwest is just more conductive to growing large deer.
Yeah you guys have us beat when it comes to trophy bucks. We have had antler restrictions here in PA for about 15 years and larger bucks have been killed overall but we just don't have the gene pool. Cross the boarder into Ohio and it's a different story... Just look at the number of PY bucks or BC bucks trophy killed in each state and compare
Not a gun owner, but I just had a rather off putting experience and wanted some serious input. Went to see my brother-in-law who I don't really get along for his birthday. He brought out a new pistol his grandfather had given him in a simple holster and passed it to me (he'd already shown it to 4 or 5 other people). I believe it was a single action revolver, like below.
After handing it to me (I hadn't taken it out of the holster), he made an offhand remark that it was loaded. I immediately gave it back. Was this in poor form on his part? I feel like when handling firearms, telling someone it's loaded is the first thing you should do.
I guess the Midwest is just more conductive to growing large deer.
This is true. In Louisiana and Texas, the deer are much smaller than what I am seeing in IL and WI.
One of the tank gunners in one of my tank platoons came in one Monday morning after going hunting on post (Ft Hood) happy he had bagged a deer that came in at about 75 pounds dressed out. I told him I had dogs bigger than that.
Deer on post were small, reminded me of the tiny deer in the everglades down in FL.
jreilly89 wrote: Not a gun owner, but I just had a rather off putting experience and wanted some serious input. Went to see my brother-in-law who I don't really get along for his birthday. He brought out a new pistol his grandfather had given him in a simple holster and passed it to me (he'd already shown it to 4 or 5 other people). I believe it was a single action revolver, like below.
After handing it to me (I hadn't taken it out of the holster), he made an offhand remark that it was loaded. I immediately gave it back. Was this in poor form on his part? I feel like when handling firearms, telling someone it's loaded is the first thing you should do.
yeah, that would be exceedingly poor form. Like, guns 101 is always safety check a firearm to ensure it is unloaded when handling and especially before handing it to someone else, and dont pass loaded firearms around if you're just showing them off.
I understand that, but if I'm browsing Reddit and someone just hands me something, 90% of the time I wouldn't expect it to be a gun. Hence why i handed it back almost immediately.
jreilly89 wrote: Not a gun owner, but I just had a rather off putting experience and wanted some serious input. Went to see my brother-in-law who I don't really get along for his birthday. He brought out a new pistol his grandfather had given him in a simple holster and passed it to me (he'd already shown it to 4 or 5 other people). I believe it was a single action revolver, like below.
After handing it to me (I hadn't taken it out of the holster), he made an offhand remark that it was loaded. I immediately gave it back. Was this in poor form on his part? I feel like when handling firearms, telling someone it's loaded is the first thing you should do.
yeah, that would be exceedingly poor form. Like, guns 101 is always safety check a firearm to ensure it is unloaded when handling and especially before handing it to someone else, and dont pass loaded firearms around if you're just showing them off.
Cheers. It also bothers me because he is planning on open carry and we have a 2 year old. The wife and I are going to have a talk with him and his wife and lay down some ground rules, like A) don't bring it in our house and B) please keep it locked up when around our child.
And the first thing to do when handling a firearm is to check condition and make safe.
Typically when handing a firearm to someone you should unload and make safe before handing it over, so yes, poor form on his part.
Even when I'm hanging out with people I know and trust, this is still the procedure we use. I was visiting my dad and he wanted to see my gun. I took it out of the holster, cleared it, checked it, handed it over to him grip first with the slide open, he checked to make sure it was clear (doesn't matter that he just watched me clear it), looked it over, played with it, gave it back to me the same way I did, I checked to make sure it was clear when I took it (making it the 3rd time in a couple minutes that it has been checked), reloaded and holstered it.
If people know their way around guns, they should never act offended by "trust, but verify".
And the first thing to do when handling a firearm is to check condition and make safe.
Typically when handing a firearm to someone you should unload and make safe before handing it over, so yes, poor form on his part.
Even when I'm hanging out with people I know and trust, this is still the procedure we use. I was visiting my dad and he wanted to see my gun. I took it out of the holster, cleared it, checked it, handed it over to him grip first with the slide open, he checked to make sure it was clear (doesn't matter that he just watched me clear it), looked it over, played with it, gave it back to me the same way I did, I checked to make sure it was clear when I took it (making it the 3rd time in a couple minutes that it has been checked), reloaded and holstered it.
If people know their way around guns, they should never act offended by "trust, but verify".
This is exactly how it should always be handled. Kudos
KingCracker wrote: Speaking of black powder rifles, anyone every build those self assembly kits? I've towed around the idea for a couple years on getting one but I don't want to spend a few hundred bucks and find out they are junk or worse.
I built one a couple of years ago. Percussion cap kentucky rifle. Super accurate even with round balls. Highly recommended.
Brand? I just don't want to spend the money and especially my time assembling the rifle just to then find out is a junker from the start
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: These questions about a particular gun cropped up on another thread, and because I didn't want to drag it OT, and because other dakka members have better gun knowledge than myself, I thought I would ask these questions here:
Pistols from the Napoleonic war/blackpowder era :
What's the average number of shots a trained soldier could fire per minute with a pistol? (assume dry, perfect conditions).
Same question, but with the soldier on horseback. Any difference? Again, assume dry, perfect conditions, and assume horse is stationary.
Did black powder pistols have a rifled barrel?
Thanks for any replies.
A bit late to the party but...
The guy who replied initially is pretty much correct. I've read that some experienced soldiers could get up to five out, but that's a pretty high rate of fire and probably a max. That's loading a round every 12 seconds. Other armies were closer to 2-3 a minute. At best I can probably do two, though hopefully if I ever find somewhere where I can shoot somewhat regularly, I'd like to get a proper cartridge pouch and make some paper cartridges and see if I can do better. Now, this is all going off of infantry with a musket and you asked about pistols.
In the Napoleonic Wars pistols were not primary weapons. Most cavalrymen carried carbines for skirmish work but the sword (or in some cases lances) were the primary arm of the cavalry. Some dragoons (French for example) would have been armed with the musketoon (a shorter musket) but that was primarily used for fighting on foot. I think French colour guards often had a pair of pistols. I don't honestly know if there is any objective evidence for rate of fire with pistols. Using the pistol as a primary weapons didn't really become a thing until the US Civil War.
To the best of my knowledge, there were no rifled pistols issued during the Napoleonic Wars, not counting perhaps a few personally supplied ones here and there.
Starbuck is a rescue horse. I used to have to sedate him so the farrier could work on him, he was terrified of people and impossible to handle (and I had the bruises to show!). After a few months of being VERY patient and a LOT of work I got him to the point I could put a halter on him and the farrier could work with him while I kept him calm. Sent him to a special Icelandic trainer. After 30 days she recommended we have him put down, "He is too dangerous, you'll never be able to ride him!". I was appalled. Sent him to the guy in the video, who though he does not specialize in Icelandics had worked with a few of our horses. He came by to pick Starbuck up and after 30 minutes with him looked at me and said "Oh, I can train him, he has trust issues but he is a good horse." As you can see, he got Starbuck to the point he could fire his pistol while sitting on him. He sent a similar video of him actually standing on the saddle and firing a couple rounds.
Starbuck is now the horse I ride most often. I don't think he can handle gun fire at this point (that was a few years ago and he still has trust issues) but that is because unfortunately I don't work with him enough for him to stay at the level of 'trained' he was at that point.
I can tell you, I have a LOT of respect for the folks who trained cavalry mounts to handle the gun fire, blood, and sheer terror of a battlefield. Getting a horse to go full out towards something it considers 'danger' is an amazing feat.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: These questions about a particular gun cropped up on another thread, and because I didn't want to drag it OT, and because other dakka members have better gun knowledge than myself, I thought I would ask these questions here:
Pistols from the Napoleonic war/blackpowder era :
What's the average number of shots a trained soldier could fire per minute with a pistol? (assume dry, perfect conditions).
Same question, but with the soldier on horseback. Any difference? Again, assume dry, perfect conditions, and assume horse is stationary.
Did black powder pistols have a rifled barrel?
Thanks for any replies.
A bit late to the party but...
The guy who replied initially is pretty much correct. I've read that some experienced soldiers could get up to five out, but that's a pretty high rate of fire and probably a max. That's loading a round every 12 seconds. Other armies were closer to 2-3 a minute. At best I can probably do two, though hopefully if I ever find somewhere where I can shoot somewhat regularly, I'd like to get a proper cartridge pouch and make some paper cartridges and see if I can do better. Now, this is all going off of infantry with a musket and you asked about pistols.
In the Napoleonic Wars pistols were not primary weapons. Most cavalrymen carried carbines for skirmish work but the sword (or in some cases lances) were the primary arm of the cavalry. Some dragoons (French for example) would have been armed with the musketoon (a shorter musket) but that was primarily used for fighting on foot. I think French colour guards often had a pair of pistols. I don't honestly know if there is any objective evidence for rate of fire with pistols. Using the pistol as a primary weapons didn't really become a thing until the US Civil War.
To the best of my knowledge, there were no rifled pistols issued during the Napoleonic Wars, not counting perhaps a few personally supplied ones here and there.
French dragoons were issued pistols starting in 1801 and were used throughout the Napoleonic wars. Dragoons would typically carry 2, one holstered on either side of the saddle. I doubt even a well practiced dragoon would get off more than one round a minute with the pistol because it would be extremely difficult to reload on horseback, on the move, in combat. Brtish dragoons also carried pistols throughout the American War for Independence and the Napoleonic wars. The pistols were initially fairly large and heavy, 9 inch barrels, calibers like .62 and .69. Over the course of the Napoleonic Wars some lighter pistols were introduced to replace the heavier early models.
I ordered my handguard, gas system, and muzzle device today. Now the only thing I have left is the BCG, sights, and maybe an ambi charging handle (I shoot left handed), but I have a spare standard one laying around for now.
ScootyPuffJunior wrote: I ordered my handguard, gas system, and muzzle device today. Now the only thing I have left is the BCG, sights, and maybe an ambi charging handle (I shoot left handed), but I have a spare standard one laying around for now.
I can't wait for this rifle to be complete!
Sweet. I loved shopping for and then building my AR (300 BLK).
I splurged on a chromed BCG becuase I hate (cleaning) direct gas impingement systems.
SickSix wrote: I splurged on a chromed BCG becuase I hate (cleaning) direct gas impingement systems.
I'm also splurging on an coated BCG, a FailZero to be precise. My younger brother put one in one of his rifles and it's been excellent so far so I figured I'd give it a go as well.
Direct Gas may need to be cleaned more often but it's much easier to clean. Even just soaking the thing with CLP will do it. If it's "wet" it will run.
Whereas, scraping a short stroke piston when it does get fouled is a pain. And, don't even get started on HK's roller delay lock.
I was finally able to hold a Sig P229 Legion and I really like the way they feel so far. The grips feel aggressive enough that the gun wont slide around in my hand if they get wet. The extra cut out under the trigger guard definitely gets my hand higher on the pistol which I like a lot, and the beaver tail just simply feels like the Sig was made for it.
The sights are by far my favorite thing about the Legions so far. The front sight is huge and extremely easy to pick up. The rear sight is blacked out with the exception of the tritium vials. The tritium is easy to see in both day light and night so I feel there is no need for the white paint. The rear sight is also serrated on the sight face so there was no glare.
Over all the new Legions are pretty well made. The only things that I really don't need on it are the accessory rail and the front slide serrations, but they are nice to have. I don't think I will be in any hurry to replace my P228, but if they decide to introduce a Legion P220 SAO I will be all over it.
I'm so jealous of the right to carry guns you guys in the states have. Here if you have a gun you have to either register it and keep it only at the polices descretion or just hide it. Lame.
Future War Cultist wrote: I'm so jealous of the right to carry guns you guys in the states have. Here if you have a gun you have to either register it and keep it only at the polices descretion or just hide it. Lame.
Where are you located? If you're ever in the states look me up. I'll let you blow stuff up in American-hillybilly fashion until you want to immigrate.
Future War Cultist wrote: I'm so jealous of the right to carry guns you guys in the states have. Here if you have a gun you have to either register it and keep it only at the polices descretion or just hide it. Lame.
I've wondered how many gun owners you guys would have if your gun laws were to be relaxed. How many of you guys would conceal carry. I asked this question in another thread and two posters responded. Both said that basically guns aren't a popular thing. But both of those posters are pretty anti gun so I'm thinking they were a little biased
My wife's uncle is full-blood Mexican. He is legally married to a US citizen (my wife's aunt), but never got his citizenship in order to not complicate issues with his large plots of land in Mexico.
My father in law visits this property in Mexico, and we have been invited, although I've declined do to safety concerns. In my wife's uncle's own words "no one leaves the ranch after dark, and no one leaves alone or unarmed during the day." They carry all the time down there, regardless of any gun laws.
cuda1179 wrote:Where are you located? If you're ever in the states look me up. I'll let you blow stuff up in American-hillybilly fashion until you want to immigrate.
Northern Ireland. And I'd love to take you up on that offer!
yellowfever wrote:I've wondered how many gun owners you guys would have if your gun laws were to be relaxed. How many of you guys would conceal carry. I asked this question in another thread and two posters responded. Both said that basically guns aren't a popular thing. But both of those posters are pretty anti gun so I'm thinking they were a little biased
I would have one. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
Future War Cultist wrote: I'm so jealous of the right to carry guns you guys in the states have. Here if you have a gun you have to either register it and keep it only at the polices descretion or just hide it. Lame.
Former NI resident, now happily living in the States. For me there seems to be more of a focus on individual rights here, whereas the UK and Europe seems to favour collective rights.
I've been contemplating another AR, building it around a FossTech Echo trigger if they turn out to be reliable and the ATF doesnt change its mind about the functionality being legal.
cuda1179 wrote:Where are you located? If you're ever in the states look me up. I'll let you blow stuff up in American-hillybilly fashion until you want to immigrate.
Northern Ireland. And I'd love to take you up on that offer!
yellowfever wrote:I've wondered how many gun owners you guys would have if your gun laws were to be relaxed. How many of you guys would conceal carry. I asked this question in another thread and two posters responded. Both said that basically guns aren't a popular thing. But both of those posters are pretty anti gun so I'm thinking they were a little biased
I would have one. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
Wait, you're in Northern Ireland and you don't shoot guns? Just remember, when you're in the States IRA stands for Individual Retirement Account, LOL.
Dreadclaw69 wrote: With the 300AAC will you be loading your own, or just buying commercially?
Commercial for now, but I'm really considering getting into reloading. I've done some research and it's possible to get decent, bare minimum equipment for less than $250 (single stage press kit, tumbler, die kit, bullet puller, other small tools). I have a grocery bag full of 5.56 brass that I could cut down, so I would only need primers, projectiles, and powder. It's definitely on the to do list, I think.
I'm sure my wife would be thrilled if I brought home a gakload of reloading equipment...
Dreadclaw69 wrote: With the 300AAC will you be loading your own, or just buying commercially?
Commercial for now, but I'm really considering getting into reloading. I've done some research and it's possible to get decent, bare minimum equipment for less than $250 (single stage press kit, tumbler, die kit, bullet puller, other small tools). I have a grocery bag full of 5.56 brass that I could cut down, so I would only need primers, projectiles, and powder. It's definitely on the to do list, I think.
I'm sure my wife would be thrilled if I brought home a gakload of reloading equipment...
Buy her flowers and chocolates, keep the stuff in the car and sneak it in while she sleeps
I have a question for the more knowledgable members of the forum.
I'm working towards a degree in Environmental Sciences, and in order to buff up my CV I'm considering working towards a firearms license. This is a pretty serious undertaking in Australia, and given that, what would be a good calibre?
It'd have to be light enough to carry, but big enough to have a decent range of targets.
This leads me to conclude that .223 or .243 would probably be something I'm looking towards. .22 is too small, and .303 is too heavy to be carrying around, with ammo too expensive to shoot small game.
This is all pretty theoretical ATM, but I'd like to be able to walk into a range with some first hand knowledge behind me, rather then stuff I've cobbled together from sporting reviews.
CptJake wrote: When you say 'small game', what do you mean? What distances do you intend to shoot?
Is that going to be the primary purpose for the gun?
Primary purpose for the gun is carry round rifle.
Rabbit-Goat. We get Boar/Horses/Camels, but that's too big as I understand it, and the goat would be stretching it.
As to distances, about 200m max. Gov. restrictions usually state no further, to try and ensure clean kill.
I really have very little knowledge. I'd just like to be able to walk into the range with an idea of where to start.
A .223/5.56 is a bit of overkill for the rabbits, but will do the trick, and it is going to be fine for the goats and could work on boar if you are getting good shots*. 200m is an easy shot with iron sights with a bit of practice (maybe not for a rabbit, especially if it is running). I would not want to shoot a horse or camel with a .223, I would very much worry about a clean kill. Of course, if I started capping our horses my wife would likely cap me...
I use a .22lr for rabbits and squirrels and the occasional snake.
*I have a buddy that uses a suppressor equipped AR type rifle to cull wild boar to keep them out of his crops. The suppressor allows him to get several before they realize what is up and un-ass the AO.
Cheers. It's nice to have some idea of what you're doing, rather then standing round like a looney. This is fairly daunting, all things told.
CptJake wrote: Of course, if I started capping our horses my wife would likely cap me...
Vets use (or at least used to) a .22 for putting down horses around here, back before things got more civilised. Of course, they'd be standing 5 feet away. All the University horse skulls have nice little holes in the forehead, and a few still rattle with the bullet.
Doubt I'd be encountering boar/horse/camel, they usually have targeted shoots. Suppressor is no go, that much I know, and to get an AR you have to be a fully qualified, licensed contractor. There's like a handful in the country, and they're employed strictly by the Gov. for aerial culls.
Dreadclaw69 wrote: With the 300AAC will you be loading your own, or just buying commercially?
Commercial for now, but I'm really considering getting into reloading. I've done some research and it's possible to get decent, bare minimum equipment for less than $250 (single stage press kit, tumbler, die kit, bullet puller, other small tools). I have a grocery bag full of 5.56 brass that I could cut down, so I would only need primers, projectiles, and powder. It's definitely on the to do list, I think.
I'm sure my wife would be thrilled if I brought home a gakload of reloading equipment...
Buy her flowers and chocolates, keep the stuff in the car and sneak it in while she sleeps
Meh, she doesn't like chocolate. Besides, we've always been open about what we spend and when, since we have joint everything.
Also, notice that I didn't say I wouldn't be buying a gakload of reloading equipment, just that she wouldn't be happy about it (when I do).
All our stuff in joint too, and neither of us are spendy which helps. Aside from the mortgage the pets are our biggest expense. Well, that and hobby supplies now that I have taken up the brush again (pictures pending after basing materials are acquired).
We're heading to Michigan to do so shooting this weekend. I'm teaching her Mom to shoot, and this range has a variety of simulations too
I ended up going with the Vortex SPARC AR for an optic on the new rifle. I got it in the mail today and put it on the rifle and even though I have fired it yet, I like the sight picture. This is my first red dot (my other AR has an EOTech 512 on it) so I'm really looking forward to taking it to the range this weekend.
Not sure if you qualify, but Vortex has a PHENOMENAL LEO/DoD discount (even veterans qualify). I'm not allowed to state the % but it is significant.
Additionally, if you are in the program and you refer someone else and they order and list you as their reference you get a % of their purchase amount applied to your account as store credit.
Without wanting to get into politics, here's a rather interesting article from the NY Times (from CJ Chivers who wrote a great book on the AK) about small arms proliferation with illustrations by a DC Batman comic book artist
It's got some political elements in it that I find a bit silly or disagree with, but I thought stuff like the maps, cold war history, and Batman style illustrations were worth a look at from a guy who has some very real journalistic, military, and academic chops.
CptJake wrote: Not sure if you qualify, but Vortex has a PHENOMENAL LEO/DoD discount (even veterans qualify). I'm not allowed to state the % but it is significant.
Additionally, if you are in the program and you refer someone else and they order and list you as their reference you get a % of their purchase amount applied to your account as store credit.
Unfortunately, that wouldn't apply to me as I have no background in law enforcement or the military, but thanks for the heads up (I have family in law enforcement that I'll pass it along to).
So...Ian and Karl at InRange are currently doing a series on home building CETME L rifles from parts kits, and this has me intrigued. Parts kits seem to run $225-280, barrels about $100, not sure about the rest of the stuff but apparently aside from a receiver it looks like you just need a bending jig, hand tools, and a small welder.
I am excited to be starting yet another ar upper build. I sold one of my pistols and my old mustang rims so I can afford the parts I want . I currently have my super expensive 6.8 SPC that I finish early last year as a precision rifle, so I will be using its lower to build another precision rifle but this time in 556.
My current rifle has a PSA 6.8 SPC II 18" upper that I have added a 15" BCM KMR rail, Silencerco ASR muzzle break, #4 BCM charging handle and an Aim surplus 6.8 bolt to it. I have a Leupold VXR Patrol 3-9x40 scope, a Primary arms red dot mount at 40 degrees next to the scope and a set of Magpui flip ups. My lower is a M&P with a Magpul UBR stock, trigger guard, pistol grip and bad lever, a Larue Tactical trigger, and a basic BCM parts kit.
For my new upper I have a spare R-Guns stripped upper I will be using for this. I am going to buy a BCM 18" rifle gas length 410 stainless steel Ionbond black barrel (just as expensive as the description ), Spikes gas tude, BCM low pro gas block, 15" BCM KMR Alpha, #4 BCM charging handle, either a Spikes NiB bolt or an Aimsurplus NiB bolt (I would prefer an Aim Black Nitrite but they are out of stock), a Silencerco ASR muzzle break, and I'll be topping it off with a Leupold VXR Patrol 1.25-4x20 scope and a set of troy 40 degree off set flip up sights. Then I will get the upper, lower and KMR Cerakoted Magpul Stealth grey. This is going to be a fun project and am looking forward to seeing how it holds up to my 6.8 SPC.
As you can tell by a lot of the listed parts I tend to use Bravo Company as much as possible. I have been making ARs with their parts for quite awhile now and have never been upset with the quality and performance of their parts, and whole rifles for that matter.
I had to close that video almost immediately, lest I spent $300 on a bag of junk soon to be a box of junk in my basement. Those kinds of videos are dangerous to my wallet.
I finally got to fire an AK for the first time yesterday. I have to say that I enjoyed it. A lot. Recoil was less than I was expecting. We found a range almost two hours from us and it also has programs for the targets so you can simulate being charged (someone coming at you from 60 foot away does not give you a lot of time to react. Even less if you have to reload mid encounter). There were also moving short exposure targets, and random good guy/bad guy encounters.
Dreadclaw69 wrote: I finally got to fire an AK for the first time yesterday. I have to say that I enjoyed it. A lot. Recoil was less than I was expecting. We found a range almost two hours from us and it also has programs for the targets so you can simulate being charged (someone coming at you from 60 foot away does not give you a lot of time to react. Even less if you have to reload mid encounter). There were also moving short exposure targets, and random good guy/bad guy encounters.
It was definitely a worthwhile trip.
Auto or semi?
In related news, I took the new AR to the range today. It was awesome and I'm so glad I built that thing. The SPARC AR red dot was pretty nice, but it pales in comparison to my EOTech... I just can't justify spending the money for another one though.
Dreadclaw69 wrote: I finally got to fire an AK for the first time yesterday. I have to say that I enjoyed it. A lot. Recoil was less than I was expecting. We found a range almost two hours from us and it also has programs for the targets so you can simulate being charged (someone coming at you from 60 foot away does not give you a lot of time to react. Even less if you have to reload mid encounter). There were also moving short exposure targets, and random good guy/bad guy encounters.
It was definitely a worthwhile trip.
Auto or semi?
In related news, I took the new AR to the range today. It was awesome and I'm so glad I built that thing. The SPARC AR red dot was pretty nice, but it pales in comparison to my EOTech... I just can't justify spending the money for another one though.
It was a semi but I still enjoyed the experience. There was a lot less recoil that I was expecting from the 7.62x39, but seeing as I can only fire slugs from my pumpgun at the range I frequent there was no way the recoil was going to be as bad (unless I'm shooting Beowulf )
When we were at the range my wife did better with the moving targets than the stationary targets.
Well, getting close to finishing up another rifle stock. A little bummed that the figure on the right side isn't as pronounced as the other. Here are some shots of it last week. Should have some more soon.
Sorry, had to remove the images.
Non wargaming images are not allowed to be attached, if you wish to share any such images you need to use an off site host.
Looked good though Reds8n
Normally, I'd start another thread, but seeing as this is a gun thread, and I have a gun question
I thought I'd ask it here, plus people have been very helpful in the past
and they probably own the guns in question.
To cut a long story short, I've mentioned before I'm interested in historic guns (anything pre 1945) and I was watching Zulu the other day. There's this scene where Stanley Baker is fighting off Zulus with his revolver, and it got me thinking::
is the age of the Revolver over?
Obviously, we have automatic pistols in this day and age, but is the revolver still a viable weapon for military, police, or even self-defense?
Or is it now a history piece, its memory held together by a small band of dedicated enthusiasts, some of whom are probably my fellow dakka members who own and enjoy shooting revolvers.
I think it is still a reliable self defense weapon, especially in the home were it will sit in a drawer or some place for years at a time. A semi-auto might have had its springs set over that time but a revolver will still fire reliably.
As for Police or military, nope.
I love Webleys, I have several of them. The Indiana Jones gun
Col. Dash wrote: I think it is still a reliable self defense weapon, especially in the home were it will sit in a drawer or some place for years at a time. A semi-auto might have had its springs set over that time but a revolver will still fire reliably.
As for Police or military, nope.
I love Webleys, I have several of them. The Indiana Jones gun
When I was young, I was raised on a diet of British War films and Empire tales: Zulu, Charlton Heston fighting them off with a revolver in Gordon of Khartoum, and even Errol Flynn in that charge of the light brigade film.
A trusty revolver was always at their side. And of course, numerous Western and American civil war films.
For want of a better word, there's something more 'romantic' about a revolver than an automatic. Probably to do with its history.
Revolvers do have their place, and their advantages.
For one thing, they are significantly less selective when it comes to what ammo will work in them. Semi-autos sometimes tend to have a problem cycling some rounds. They might run too hot, or might not have enough bang to chamber the next round. Other times they might have issues with steel cases, or some semi-autos might not like hollow points. You also have to factor in that semi-autos only properly function if the bullet weight is within a certain range. With revolvers it's really not an issue. They will pretty much shoot whatever crap you can fit into the cylinder. This is particularly nice for reloads.
Revolvers also have their sights directly mounted to the barrel. Many Semi-autos do not and have their barrels as a moving mechanism. This means that Revolvers have a slight edge in accuracy. (Note, direct blowback semiautos don't usually have this issue).
In the case of self defense, you can have a revolver loaded for literally decades with no worry that it will function when needed. Semi autos can, after time, suffer from spring fatigue in the magazine. This means that the spring in the magazine gets weak and will fail to feed the next round into the chamber.
If you have a semi auto and have a dud round your gun stops working until you re-rack a new round. With a revolver, you just keep pulling the trigger.
Revolvers are also significantly less likely to malfunction. When a semi-auto ejects it's round it can get stuck in the chamber, fail to extract, or double feed.
If you are into reloading revolvers are great. You don't have to go hunting all over the ground looking for spent brass.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Normally, I'd start another thread, but seeing as this is a gun thread, and I have a gun question
I thought I'd ask it here, plus people have been very helpful in the past
and they probably own the guns in question.
To cut a long story short, I've mentioned before I'm interested in historic guns (anything pre 1945) and I was watching Zulu the other day. There's this scene where Stanley Baker is fighting off Zulus with his revolver, and it got me thinking::
is the age of the Revolver over?
Obviously, we have automatic pistols in this day and age, but is the revolver still a viable weapon for military, police, or even self-defense?
Or is it now a history piece, its memory held together by a small band of dedicated enthusiasts, some of whom are probably my fellow dakka members who own and enjoy shooting revolvers.
Thanks for any replies.
Do you own a Webley .45 yet? (the Revolver he had).
Its fight shooting with a brick of lead, but man its awesome. Plus you can use it as a hammer to build a house.
To your question, outside of concealed carry -where it is very viable- I don't see it as a viable in a military of police context. I could see it as a house gun where it generally is more accurate and has less recoil.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Normally, I'd start another thread, but seeing as this is a gun thread, and I have a gun question
I thought I'd ask it here, plus people have been very helpful in the past
and they probably own the guns in question.
To cut a long story short, I've mentioned before I'm interested in historic guns (anything pre 1945) and I was watching Zulu the other day. There's this scene where Stanley Baker is fighting off Zulus with his revolver, and it got me thinking::
is the age of the Revolver over?
Obviously, we have automatic pistols in this day and age, but is the revolver still a viable weapon for military, police, or even self-defense?
Or is it now a history piece, its memory held together by a small band of dedicated enthusiasts, some of whom are probably my fellow dakka members who own and enjoy shooting revolvers.
Thanks for any replies.
Do you own a Webley .45 yet? (the Revolver he had).
Its fight shooting with a brick of lead, but man its awesome. Plus you can use it as a hammer to build a house.
To your question, outside of concealed carry -where it is very viable- I don't see it as a viable in a military of police context. I could see it as a house gun where it generally is more accurate and has less recoil.
I've never fired a Webley before, but I'm in the same boat as you Frazz, raise on a diet of classic war and western films.
A brave British Captain, alone on the edge of Empire, surrounded by fierce tribemen, armed with nothing more than his trusty revolver, sharp wit, and a dash of courage, or something like that
Automatically Appended Next Post:
cuda1179 wrote: Revolvers do have their place, and their advantages.
For one thing, they are significantly less selective when it comes to what ammo will work in them. Semi-autos sometimes tend to have a problem cycling some rounds. They might run too hot, or might not have enough bang to chamber the next round. Other times they might have issues with steel cases, or some semi-autos might not like hollow points. You also have to factor in that semi-autos only properly function if the bullet weight is within a certain range. With revolvers it's really not an issue. They will pretty much shoot whatever crap you can fit into the cylinder. This is particularly nice for reloads.
Revolvers also have their sights directly mounted to the barrel. Many Semi-autos do not and have their barrels as a moving mechanism. This means that Revolvers have a slight edge in accuracy. (Note, direct blowback semiautos don't usually have this issue).
In the case of self defense, you can have a revolver loaded for literally decades with no worry that it will function when needed. Semi autos can, after time, suffer from spring fatigue in the magazine. This means that the spring in the magazine gets weak and will fail to feed the next round into the chamber.
If you have a semi auto and have a dud round your gun stops working until you re-rack a new round. With a revolver, you just keep pulling the trigger.
Revolvers are also significantly less likely to malfunction. When a semi-auto ejects it's round it can get stuck in the chamber, fail to extract, or double feed.
If you are into reloading revolvers are great. You don't have to go hunting all over the ground looking for spent brass.
Good info, thanks. I've been watching gun channels on youtube, and they were saying similar things to your post. With regards to the webley, they were also saying that there is a probelm with some webleys that were converted to fire ammunition more widely available in the USA.
Sometimes, if the shaving? is not done properly, the webley struggles to fire, which is a shame.
My interest is primarily historical/miniature wargaming, so its good to learn these facts about revolvers, especially if you're running an RPG and one of the players has a revolver.
A friend had one and carried it for a bit. It was the heaviest pistol I picked up outside of my big model 29. I do believe its the British equivalent of a Mosin Nagant and a tank could run over it without affecting it. Thing had like a 20 lb trigger pull though.
Frazzled wrote: A friend had one and carried it for a bit. It was the heaviest pistol I picked up outside of my big model 29. I do believe its the British equivalent of a Mosin Nagant and a tank could run over it without affecting it. Thing had like a 20 lb trigger pull though.
You may think this is a simple gun thread, but it's more than that. For me, it's a repository of knowledge.
Example. A few months ago, I was reading Custer and Crazy Horse. Wonderful book, highly recommended.
But as you read, simple questions begin to form:
How hard is it to fire a revolver from a horse? How accurate is it? Could you reload it with one hand? And so on and so on.
As you get older, you release that warfare is not easy, and that practical questions take on a life of their own.
Luckily, there are knowledgeable people on dakka who can answer this stuff, becuase they have the practical experience, and of course, it helps me with running my RPGs, and other historical curiosities.
I have a webley mark 6 cut for .45 ACP. It is a tank. Trigger pull is heavy so I usually fire it single action.
The problems are largely myth. Don't shoot +P in it and it's fine. The original .455 loads might not get struck hard enough by the firing pin due to the cylinder shaving but regular .45 ACP is fine.
Break-top revolvers (the kind that open like a double barreled shotgun) are something I love to look at. Other than a Webley, has there ever been another Break-top that was double action?
If a modern design was ever introduced I'd buy one up in a heartbeat.
How hard is it to fire a revolver from a horse? How accurate is it? Could you reload it with one hand? And so on and so on.
As you get older, you release that warfare is not easy, and that practical questions take on a life of their own.
:
I never got into the riding + cowboy action shooting, but I knew a few ladies who were top of their class in the country with six shooters in that sort of thing, they make it look easy!
these are not those ladies, but similar idea.
Nostromodamus wrote: I have a webley mark 6 cut for .45 ACP. It is a tank. Trigger pull is heavy so I usually fire it single action.
The problems are largely myth. Don't shoot +P in it and it's fine. The original .455 loads might not get struck hard enough by the firing pin due to the cylinder shaving but regular .45 ACP is fine.
Here's a good video on the Webley, including a pistol that was cut to accept .45ACP
Okay, I got a new AR type rifle (not allowed to show pictures yet) and am thinking about optics.
I have an Aimpoint PRO with a Vortex 3x magnifier on my HK. I am considering trying something different.
I like the ability to go from magnified to not magnified., so ACOG is probably not the answer.
Any one have any experience with the Elcan Specter? (specifically, can you co-witness at the 1x setting?)
How about Eotech stuff. I know about the issues with extreme heat throwing point of impact off. You can get a set with an EXPS2-2 and G33 3x Magnifier. What do you guys think of Eotech?
Son2 has the option of putting ACOGs or Eotechs on his 'work' rifle and says he likes the Eotech better, but for somethings the magnification of the ACOG is better (not so good for close quarters).
What is the opinion of the various Dakka gun folks?
Elcan's optics are insanely expensive but very good. EOtech left a bad taste in everyone's mouth when they gamed the test to land a military contract...I also had one go TU on me so I'm done with them.
One group you might consider is Vortex - they make plenty of variable power scopes. Their Strike Eagle optic is very good for the price point. Peshmerganor, the Instagram celebrity who is in Kurdistan fighting ISIS, runs one of those on his 20" AR.
Also check out the Primary Arms Platinum scopes, they're ~1300 but have a very cool reticle, and true 1-8 variable power.
CptJake wrote: Vortex also has a FANTASTIC discount for LEOs, military and veterans, which is one reason I got the magnifier I have from them.
Do you know if at 1x the Primary Arms will co-witness? Some 1x have a bit too much distortion to use the iron sights.
I don't think it will. Is that a requirement? AFAIK most of these tubed 1-N times scopes won't permit a cowitness.
Probably better to get a LaRue quick disconnect mount and take it off if you want to use the BUIS.
It is a requirement for me, which is one reason I was looking at that Eotech with magnifier package. The magnifier flips out of the way just like my Vortex.
As for offset sights, not a fan, I hate having to use a different cheek weld.
Thanks for the suggestions/comments. Keep 'em coming.
Seems like your question is answered. RDS/MAG. Like nuggz said I don't believe any of the 1x-XX are able to cowitness with BUIS. I'm going to double check because now I'm curious.
yellowfever wrote: Seems like your question is answered. RDS/MAG. Like nuggz said I don't believe any of the 1x-XX are able to cowitness with BUIS. I'm going to double check because now I'm curious.
That is one reason I asked about the Eclan Specter. I've heard yes and no, and would like to know the truth. Guess I could see if the manufacturer will answer the question.
Nostromodamus wrote: I have a webley mark 6 cut for .45 ACP. It is a tank. Trigger pull is heavy so I usually fire it single action.
The problems are largely myth. Don't shoot +P in it and it's fine. The original .455 loads might not get struck hard enough by the firing pin due to the cylinder shaving but regular .45 ACP is fine.
I don't recall, but I think .45 Auto Rim will also work in a Webley converted over to .45 ACP.
Nostromodamus wrote: I have a webley mark 6 cut for .45 ACP. It is a tank. Trigger pull is heavy so I usually fire it single action.
The problems are largely myth. Don't shoot +P in it and it's fine. The original .455 loads might not get struck hard enough by the firing pin due to the cylinder shaving but regular .45 ACP is fine.
I don't recall, but I think .45 Auto Rim will also work in a Webley converted over to .45 ACP.
Honestly after learning to shoot out to 600m with iron sights on a 20" M16, I will stick with my Aim Points that co-witness. The ACOGs are nice but if you don't have the correct reticle for your specific setup, its kind of a PITA.
Eventually I would like to put a Luepold Mk4 1.25-4x on my M1A Scout.
CptJake wrote: Okay, I got a new AR type rifle (not allowed to show pictures yet) and am thinking about optics.
I have an Aimpoint PRO with a Vortex 3x magnifier on my HK. I am considering trying something different.
I like the ability to go from magnified to not magnified., so ACOG is probably not the answer.
Any one have any experience with the Elcan Specter? (specifically, can you co-witness at the 1x setting?)
How about Eotech stuff. I know about the issues with extreme heat throwing point of impact off. You can get a set with an EXPS2-2 and G33 3x Magnifier. What do you guys think of Eotech?
Son2 has the option of putting ACOGs or Eotechs on his 'work' rifle and says he likes the Eotech better, but for somethings the magnification of the ACOG is better (not so good for close quarters).
What is the opinion of the various Dakka gun folks?
I run one of these on one of my ARs:
Lithium AA battery lasts about a year on standby mode, also NVG compatible and you can use an Eotech magnifier if you need one. Not a bad price for a decent optic.
SickSix wrote: Honestly after learning to shoot out to 600m with iron sights on a 20" M16, I will stick with my Aim Points that co-witness. The ACOGs are nice but if you don't have the correct reticle for your specific setup, its kind of a PITA.
Eventually I would like to put a Luepold Mk4 1.25-4x on my M1A Scout.
Heads up:
Leupold has $50 back offer on AR MOD 1 and VX1 scopes until October 2nd.
Has anyone ever done something like an AK build party? I've been watching InRange TV's series on the CETME L and been thinking about trying it, however I've never really tried something like that myself and would have to make do with hand tools, and was wondering what experiences others had with such projects.
Vaktathi wrote: Has anyone ever done something like an AK build party? I've been watching InRange TV's series on the CETME L and been thinking about trying it, however I've never really tried something like that myself and would have to make do with hand tools, and was wondering what experiences others had with such projects.
The hardest part of an AK build from flats is bending the receiver flat in two places. They're pretty easy to slap together. That said...given the price of parts kits these days (i.e., not $50 like they were in the early 00's) and the trouble, why not just build an AR? So much easier, and a much better rifle altogether.
I did build an AR from parts so I tried that, I have AK's already, was thinking about doing the CETME L build as a hobby project to make a cool range toy mostly
I like building guns, its a lot if fun and teaches you a lot about that particular firearm. So far ive built several ARs, a couple AKs, an Uzi, and a 1911. Aks are fun to build and if you do just go with a Nodak Spud receiver, they are not that expensive and less trouble then bending a flat.
Anywho... So at the end of this year I get my car paid off, so without loosing that money every month I was thinking of buying another 556 rifle. So far Im looking at the Bushmaster ACR, CZ 805 Bren, and a Sig 556xi. Any of you have any of these guns and would care to comment on their performance?
The Sig 552 Commando has always been one of my "grail" guns, and since it seems to be hard to find the old Sig 556 the xi is literally the next best thing . The Bren is on the list because I love CZs, own several of their pistols and would like to add a rifle. Finally, the ACR is on the list because it will be a novelty item for me, its kinda like a Scar but without the FN tax and the terrible tactical ugg boot stock...
Not exactly a firearm but...zeroed the old X-bow for hunting season today at 20, 30, and 40 meters.
I took slow motion video of the thing firing...honestly I'm amazed that these things are so accurate given the amount of vibration in the system. Still ended up having to pull my arrows after every shot in order to avoid Robin Hooding them with the next arrow (not a brag about my skill...anyone can do that from a rest).
Some of you may have heard of the Range 15 movie (trailer in spoiler), a crowdfunded veteran made zombie flick. Not very politically correct.
Spoiler:
As part of the movie promotion, Palmetto State Defense made 100 each 5.56 and 300 Blackout "Range 15" ARs.
I was lucky enough to snag number 13 (which I requested) in 5.56. Great rifle. Already got the iron sights zeroed in, decided to go the Eotech route to try something different, have not had a chance to zero those yet, was hoping to do so this week but with the rain we're getting my firing lane is a bit swampy down at the target end right now.
Rifle came with sling, IFAK, 3x Hexmags and two Wilder Tactical mag holders, and a really nice SKB custom hard case (not in the picture). As part of what I chipped in during the crowdfunding for the movie I got the DVD and the challenge coin (as well as some other stuff including a cool t-shirt). I put on the BCM Gunfighter Keymod vertical grip. It is pretty cool, it attaches directly to the Daniel Defense Slimrail without having to attach any rail sections. I also added a BCM QD sling attachment point since the Eotech hangs over just a bit too much to attach the sling on the DD Slimrail point.
So far my favorite feature (besides the labeling for the select lever) is a bolt release on the righthand side of the lever, allowing you to use your trigger finger to release the bolt after loading a magazine. Really cool feature I've never had on an AR before.
Rifle is a lot lighter than my HK MMR, I never realized how much heavier the piston guns are. This is so light my daughter thinks it ought to be hers.
I picked up several more on sale when I got the optics. They seem to feed well through both my HK and the new one. The HK is pretty particular about what magazines it accepts.
Thats odd...wonder why. I know the Gen3's dont work in a lot of STANAG but non AR guns (like the Beretta ARX) because of the overinsert shelf, but its weird that the gen 1 and 2 mags wont work.
Hordini wrote: The selector switch labeling on that rifle is awesome CptJake. Nice rifle overall too.
It will make training new shooters a lot of fun.
Okay, now move the selector from safe to...
My range lane is a bit too swampy from all the rain we got the last couple of days to zero the optics today. I'm kayaking the Cape Fear with my daughter and a couple buddies tomorrow, but if we finish up early enough I may see if the ground by the berm at the end of the lane is dry enough.
With a slide grip thats perfect for the wife. She ran my old MKIII target into the ground, literally shot it until the frame cracked across all faces and the internals shredded.
Well, here is one that another Gunsmith I know finished for me. It is one of a matched set, the other is locked away never to be touched by human hands again haha. But, it is still a neat, fun little rifle in a style that I have been hankering for.
edit.
Hmm, lemme figure out how to post it from another source, last time I put pictures up they got removed since they were not related to gaming haha.
Well, finishing up a stock build from a blank, started sealing it. A few areas I will be going back and resanding before continuing to seal it, but I am fairly happy with it so far.
Inletting.
Sanded.
Sealing it.
And our shop dog for the day, one of my coworkers brought her in to hang out. She loves watching us work on guns and our trucks.
So you guys might know where to go for this. My buddy, the one who has the guns, has no artistic flair. But, making guns is a hobby of his, and he wants me to eventually do some stock carving for him. Any tips, tricks, websites I should know about?
The woodworking's simple enough (art student, focusing in 3D and sculpture stuff), but I don't know the 2nd thing about firearm ergonomics.
Bought the wife a Springfield XDS 9MM over the weekend and she loves it. I am thinking about getting the XD MOD. 2 in .40 for myself. Has anyone here ever shot one? The XDS has very minimal kick and it shoots extremely straight with the 4" barrel. I was just wondering if the MOD. 2 was a similar experience.
There have been two "Obama bullet" cycles at the time of each election. The third is coming. Anything semi-automatic will be non-existent for awhile, with ammo scarce.
ChainswordHeretic wrote: Bought the wife a Springfield XDS 9MM over the weekend and she loves it. I am thinking about getting the XD MOD. 2 in .40 for myself. Has anyone here ever shot one? The XDS has very minimal kick and it shoots extremely straight with the 4" barrel. I was just wondering if the MOD. 2 was a similar experience.
Be prepared for a very unexpected snap and recoil vs. the 9mm with very little gain. I sold my CZ 2075 Rami in .40 because the felt recoil versus the gain in power was not worth it. In my opinion, you are better off with a 9mm, for cheaper and more ammo options for defensive carry and plinking.
I honestly prefer the .40 round over the 9mm in both pistols and pistol caliber rifles. I'm a big guy though (6'5" tall, 300 pounds) so the recoil isn't an issue for me. I have a rifle chambered in 10mm that I like to use for hunting raccoon (sometimes coyote) and when I shoot it for fun I can just use .40 S&W.
In pistol form it does take a little getting used to. Much louder pop.
Recoil is such that a person with a 9mm usually has a significantly faster recovery time and faster time putting more shots down range. Do a Bill Drill and you'll see a noticeable difference. Often guys with .45ACP have faster times.
BUT if you enjoy the .40 go for it baby. I can put three to four 9mms downrange for every .44 mag hollowpoint, but man that blast is satisfying. When the old model 29 goes off...BOOM.
Frazzled wrote: If you're getting a double column, get it now before the next bullet bubble. Thats going to happen in about two weeks.
Bullet bubble has already hit in my AO. We got in about 5 cases of 556 (1000) in Wolf Gold and 5 of PMC last Tuesday. We were down to 2 of PMC and zip in Wolf Gold as of last night. Same with PMAGS. Ripped through 2 cases of Gen 2 in three weeks, just got in another case of Gen 3s. ARs and parts are going brisk, fudd guns are steady (hunting season is upon us). Im trying to get a pistol build finished before the fit hits the shan.
Frazzled wrote: Recoil is such that a person with a 9mm usually has a significantly faster recovery time and faster time putting more shots down range. Do a Bill Drill and you'll see a noticeable difference. Often guys with .45ACP have faster times.
BUT if you enjoy the .40 go for it baby. I can put three to four 9mms downrange for every .44 mag hollowpoint, but man that blast is satisfying. When the old model 29 goes off...BOOM.
I'll see if I can find it, but I read an interesting FBI report from about 8 years ago. They did research and correlated data on bullet caliber vs. average number of shots to kill an assailant and the percent chance of killing the perp with the first shot. This included all calibers still used by law enforcement agencies in the US. As some local agencies still allow their officers to use personal firearms on the job they included those as well.
The basic results were pretty interesting. .40 required fewer rounds per kill, and also was more likely to kill on the first shot than 9mm. What I found most odd was that .357 magnum also ranked better in both categories than 9mm. I would assume this was a statistical outlier though, as how many places would have officers with revolvers?
CptJake...I dont recognize that rifle for whatever reason, what is it? It looks fun
As to the caliber thing, if I remember the report in question, the differences between 40, 45, and 9mm were all largely within the margin of error of each other, and no trauma surgeon on earth could look at a bullet wound and tell you which caliber it was caused by out of the 3. The .40 was something of an answer to an incorrect question (to which the real answer was... dont get into pitched gun battles with a handgun when your opponent has a rifle).
I have been wanting another 7.62 NATO gun, but didn't want an AR-10 type. This was different enough from the AR platform, and different enough from my HK91 to scratch that itch.
I'll be glad to give a report, but with the rain/flooding last week and what we're expected to get from Hurricane Matty it may be a week or two.
I did talk to a buddy today who has the solid stock M1A SOCOM and loves it. When he bought it the CQB version was not out. He said he sold his AR type rifle (in 5.56) after shooting the SOCOM a few times because, in his opinion, the SOCOM is a lot more fun to shoot.
I'm expecting it to be pretty loud and am interested in the recoil. My HK kicks like a beast, allegedly the muzzle break on this one works decently. We'll see. I'm glad I have a 100 yard lane to zero it on as that is the recommended distance. I'm half tempted to just use a chunk of my 'driveway' until my dedicated range area dries out enough. I have the distance, and it slopes uphill towards one of our gates, but I would be shooting into the dirt road and I assume this will tear it up. Hate to have to blade it just because I couldn't wait...
FRAZZ & CUDDA I read the same reports about the .40 and bottom line the pistols myself and my wife are getting are for fun, and doing some target shooting. I test fired a three .inch ,40 yesterday, and at 6'2" 255, recovery time and accuracy were not much different but boy was it fun to shoot! Springfield MOD.2 .40 service with 4" barrel on order to be picked up this week! Can't wait to get back to the range. CC permit might be in the future with more practice but right now we are just having a blast putting holes in paper !
Anvildude wrote: So you guys might know where to go for this. My buddy, the one who has the guns, has no artistic flair. But, making guns is a hobby of his, and he wants me to eventually do some stock carving for him. Any tips, tricks, websites I should know about?
The woodworking's simple enough (art student, focusing in 3D and sculpture stuff), but I don't know the 2nd thing about firearm ergonomics.
I am sending you my work email, you are going to be opening a big can of worms depending on the pattern you are doing. I can help guide you through some of it, and give you a list of tools based off what it is you are hoping to accomplish. Also, we can talk about where and how deep you should be cutting.
ChainswordHeretic wrote: FRAZZ & CUDDA I read the same reports about the .40 and bottom line the pistols myself and my wife are getting are for fun, and doing some target shooting. I test fired a three .inch ,40 yesterday, and at 6'2" 255, recovery time and accuracy were not much different but boy was it fun to shoot! Springfield MOD.2 .40 service with 4" barrel on order to be picked up this week! Can't wait to get back to the range. CC permit might be in the future with more practice but right now we are just having a blast putting holes in paper !
The two guns I use for concealed carry are a Springfield DXM .40, and a Taurus 709 slim in 9mm. I use the Taurus in the summer (as it is small and can fit in my jean-shorts pocket) and the XDM in the winter under my left armpit in my winter coat's pocket.
Honestly, the Taurus us harder for me to control than the Springfield. Probably the lighter weight, shorter barrel, and narrower grip. I'd swear it's louder too though.
Frazzled wrote: FBI has now gone back to 9mm. Thinking one pistol round will stop an opponent is misplaced.
This. The big takeaway from the LA trauma surgeon's presentation - which I'm not digging up now but will upon request - is that caliber functionally doesn't matter.
The number one predictor of killing an assailant with a handgun is shot placement.
The number two predictor is number of rounds placed on target.
The idea that there is a "best" round for self defense is a fools errand, the idea there is a guaranteed one-shot-drop. The best self defense round is the one you like the most which means you will actually carry it and have it on you if needed, and it also means you will practice with it, getting proficient. I'd rather have a .32 that I've shot thousands of rounds with and know it like a part of my own body than some giant magnum round I have shot maybe a dozen times because it hurts my hand and is too bulky to carry.
I personally carry a Taurus 9mm subcompact with 12 rounds of Speer Gold Dot +P JHP's, unless it is the winter, in which case I carry my 1911 with Federal JHP's.
Anvildude wrote: Well, I'm fairly certain a 1" bore blunderbuss would be a relatively guaranteed one-shot-drop.
Lol, would that still be a pistol? It would be really interesting to see what one of those old handgonnes did to modern body armor though. A good breastplate could turn the shot at most ranges- would kevlar buckle, or weather the blast?
Thank you for this. Now I'm watching people shoot crossbows and bows at body armor on youtube.
I know that Bass pro Shops here in Iowa used to have black powder handguns in plastic clam packs hanging on shelves (not even behind the counter). At first I thought they were CO2 pellet guns, but nope, black powder.
Anvildude wrote: Well, I'm fairly certain a 1" bore blunderbuss would be a relatively guaranteed one-shot-drop.
Lol, would that still be a pistol?
Legally, blackpowder guns aren't even considered "firearms" in the US.
You can carry a concealed cap & ball revolver without a permit and own as many cannons as you want.
Of course, IANAL and all that...
Wait, what? How/when did that legislation go through?
Also- part of the reason a good breastplate could turn a ball was just that- it 'turned' it, deflecting it due to the angle of incident. I feel like, with the modern focus on absorbing impact rather than deflecting it, wad'n'ball weaponry might do more damage overall- lots less penetration, of course, but a chest shot would probably shatter all your ribs and possibly compress your internals enough to screw things up royally.
Been like that for at least as long as I've been in the States. Blackpowder and anything made before 1898 aren't considered firearms. Thats why you don't need to fill out a 4473 when buying them.
I don't think that a Black powder firearm would do crap against most ballistic vests. A .44 black powder firearm would have about as much kinetic energy as a 38 Special +p round, and a .50 BP round would be about like a .357 mag.
The difference is that the energy would be spread across a much larger surface area of a bullet, thus making the shot easier to absorb, which is what the vest is supposed to do anyway.
If you have a level 3 or below vest it would likely get penetrated by a .357 in a close range. It would likely stop the BP round though. If you had a level 4 vest it would stop either round. If the round is stopped (either of them) it's not going to feel good, but it wouldn't "shatter your ribs". Assuming the shot didn't penetrate there is effectively no difference between a cap and ball round and the .357. I've known someone that got shot in the vest (no penetration) and he said it felt like someone punched him REALLY hard in the gut.
Picked up my Springfield MOD 2 Service .40 yesterday and immediately put 100 rounds through it! It's pulling me a little high and to the left but some grip adjustment and stabilizing my stance should straighten that out. Thanks again for the advice guys!
Frazzled wrote: FBI has now gone back to 9mm. Thinking one pistol round will stop an opponent is misplaced.
This. The big takeaway from the LA trauma surgeon's presentation - which I'm not digging up now but will upon request - is that caliber functionally doesn't matter.
The number one predictor of killing an assailant with a handgun is shot placement.
The number two predictor is number of rounds placed on target.
The idea that there is a "best" round for self defense is a fools errand, the idea there is a guaranteed one-shot-drop. The best self defense round is the one you like the most which means you will actually carry it and have it on you if needed, and it also means you will practice with it, getting proficient. I'd rather have a .32 that I've shot thousands of rounds with and know it like a part of my own body than some giant magnum round I have shot maybe a dozen times because it hurts my hand and is too bulky to carry.
I personally carry a Taurus 9mm subcompact with 12 rounds of Speer Gold Dot +P JHP's, unless it is the winter, in which case I carry my 1911 with Federal JHP's.
Some of us have known this for a long time.
Unfortunately, you can't tell that to the jello-junkies in the Fackler/Roberts cult.
They'll just stick their fingers in their ears, repeating the mantra of "TWELVE INCHES, TWELVE INCHES, TWELVE....."
My carry weapon is a 9mm. The sub-culture of 9mm sucks hails from all the naysayers about the 9mm Beretta and the limitations the military has forced on it with the full metal jacket round.
If you are using FMJ rounds for personal defence, well, you saying you deserve whats coming to you is a bit over the top, but there really is no sane reason you should be doing so.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So I'm starting to realize how much of a rich mans game this hobby is. I was just looking up the price for ballistics gel dummies, and I can buy a freaking Glock 19 for the price of a single torso...
Anvildude wrote: Well, I'm fairly certain a 1" bore blunderbuss would be a relatively guaranteed one-shot-drop.
Lol, would that still be a pistol?
Legally, blackpowder guns aren't even considered "firearms" in the US.
You can carry a concealed cap & ball revolver without a permit and own as many cannons as you want.
Of course, IANAL and all that...
Actually, rules vary by state on what you can leagally carry. The Fed does not consider ball and cap to be firearms, but they are weapons, and most states restrict what you can carry either open or concealed. Some states even refer to black powder weapons in their concealed carry laws.
Side note on penetration. A .44 army max loaded with black power, ( Don't remember how many grains, but about 5 less than the point where you have to shave the front of the bullet off to get the chamber to line up with the forcing cone. Don't try this at home. ) at 30 meters will not penetrate both sides of an empty laundry detergent bottle whose backside is resting against an earth berm. After penetrating one side the round ball pancakes out dramatically ( say about an inch in diameter ) on the soft earth supported side. .38 special, not +p, out of a snub nosed revolver did penetrate into the earth at the same range.
New range toy project. PSA 10.5" 5.56 barrel 1x7 nitride, PSA FA BCG, Anderson lower, Anderson Upper, 11" keymod FF handguard, pistol buffer tube, krinkov flash forwarder, DD front iron sights. Basically a parts bin pistol, looking at replacing rear sight with a matching DD rear sight. Eventually Id like to replace the barrel with a 300BLK, but twas hard to pass on the barrel deal (damn you PSA Daily Deals!). Trying to decide on enhanced trigger guard or standard, and which CMC trigger to drop in (curved or straight).
I've wanted to build an AR10 for a long time. I know there is very little parts commonality,and that's OK, I can work with that. I'll just stick with the same manufacturer.
I finally dipped my toe into the water with a Aero Precision M5 .308 assembled upper, cerakoted in FDE, $150 shipped. I thought that was a great deal.
This was a huge mistake, it turns out. I bought that on March 1st. Since then, I not been able to buy a matching Aero Precision lower. They seem to never, ever been in stock either direct from AP or elsewhere. I added myself to back-in-stock notifications, and every time I get an email that they are in stock, they are gone by the time I get to a PC, sometimes in as little as 10 minutes.
Can any of you guys help me find a compatible lower? I have looked and looked and looked with no luck. The best I could ever find was a plastic stripped lower from some no-name vendor and I'm not quite that desperate yet.
Vaktathi wrote: I would think that any AR10 lower would work, though I'm not a gunsmith so don't take my word for it
Definitely 100% not true I'm afraid It's not as standardized the way AR15's are. The 2 big ones are DPS and Armalite, but there are others as well, none of which are compatible with each other for many parts.
Blocked at work but I think this is a good example, if the picture works:
I did try googling gun places online to find an AP M5 lowers but no one seems to have them.
Vaktathi wrote: I would think that any AR10 lower would work, though I'm not a gunsmith so don't take my word for it
Definitely 100% not true I'm afraid It's not as standardized the way AR15's are. The 2 big ones are DPS and Armalite, but there are others as well, none of which are compatible with each other for many parts.
Blocked at work but I think this is a good example, if the picture works:
I did try googling gun places online to find an AP M5 lowers but no one seems to have them.
Ouze:
Ill check with my distributors tonight, see if any are in stock. Just remember, that part is considered the firearm, so I'll have to do an FFL to FFL transfer. We'll have to be quick about it, parts are beginning to dry up. Also, my dist. are all East Coast based, so shipping will be involved too, what's your AO? PM if interested.
I have also felt the urge to dip into the .308 category. My tastes are a little different though. I just bought an HK91. It's hard to resist a rifle where you can buy very good condition, but used, steel or aluminum mags for $2.
I've had my HK-91 since about 1993. First rifle I bought. Still one of my favorites. Of course, since then I've realized I may just REALLY like 'black guns'.
Hk91's are pretty heavy, but then again so am I, so who am I to judge?
I find it quite ironic that it is basically the same weapon as my hk93, but in a larger caliber, but the magazine prices are polar opposites. Used 91 mag, $2. Used 93 mag, $40. New 91 mag, $25. New 93 mag, $90. I know, I know, supply and demand, but still.
While I still like the AR-15 platform for what it is, for some reason I have this affinity for early 80's rifles. Especially the ones that are built tough and are reliable.
As a side note, I have a ton of 20 round mags for my hk91. Are 30 or 40 round mags, or even the 50 round drum, at all necessary? Or is 20 rounds of .308 enough to repel anything short of a SWAT team?
20 round magazines for the HK91 are heavy enough (heavier than a 30 round magazine for an AR type rifle in 5.56), 30 round magazines make the gun a lot heavier. They may also be long enough to make firing prone a bit of a bitch (but I've not tried so I could be wrong).
CptJake wrote: I've had my HK-91 since about 1993. First rifle I bought. Still one of my favorites. Of course, since then I've realized I may just REALLY like 'black guns'.
That's a nice start to a collection Jake
Sadly, my stable was tragically lost on a fishing trip at Lake Superior.
CptJake wrote: Yeah, that picture was taken before the recent Hurricane Matty flooding where a tragic kayaking accident meant I've lost my collection as well.
Is that a Mossy 500 in the middle? What stock? I made the mistake of getting the 500 JIC II and without a stock, you can only reliably shoot it from the hip. Got a killer deal on it which was how I got it.
CptJake wrote: Yeah, that picture was taken before the recent Hurricane Matty flooding where a tragic kayaking accident meant I've lost my collection as well.
Is that a Mossy 500 in the middle? What stock? I made the mistake of getting the 500 JIC II and without a stock, you can only reliably shoot it from the hip. Got a killer deal on it which was how I got it.
If you want a stock it definitely makes the gun easier to control. My pistol-grip only shotgun was a "5 rounds and I'm done for the day" kind of gun. HOWEVER, there is another option. I put a Witt Machine muzzle brake on my shotgun and switched the pistol grip out for a bird's-head pistol grip from Shockwave Technology. It makes shooting a pistol-grip shotgun SO much easier. I swear with those two things bolted on it almost feels like shooting a 20 gauge or less. I'd say it easily reduced recoil 60%, probably more.
Is that a Mossy 500 in the middle? What stock? I made the mistake of getting the 500 JIC II and without a stock, you can only reliably shoot it from the hip. Got a killer deal on it which was how I got it.
Is that a Mossy 500 in the middle? What stock? I made the mistake of getting the 500 JIC II and without a stock, you can only reliably shoot it from the hip. Got a killer deal on it which was how I got it.
Ok, friendly people of Dakka. Next year I am only allowing myself to buy one gun... I am having trouble deciding between 2 pistols and 1 rifle. My three choices are all sigs, X Five Entry, Sig Legion P226, or a 556XI. I already have piles of 9mms and piles of 223/556s but I really want all three of these.
Ruberu wrote: Ok, friendly people of Dakka. Next year I am only allowing myself to buy one gun... I am having trouble deciding between 2 pistols and 1 rifle. My three choices are all sigs, X Five Entry, Sig Legion P226, or a 556XI. I already have piles of 9mms and piles of 223/556s but I really want all three of these.
I would pass on the 556XI, not because it is inherently a bad gun, but because there's been lots of reviews and reports of poor quality control and reliability. The Legion is nice, but you pay a *lot* for cool factor for a P226, though it does have a lot of it. I don't know much about the X5.
Ruberu wrote: Ok, friendly people of Dakka. Next year I am only allowing myself to buy one gun... I am having trouble deciding between 2 pistols and 1 rifle. My three choices are all sigs, X Five Entry, Sig Legion P226, or a 556XI. I already have piles of 9mms and piles of 223/556s but I really want all three of these.
I would pass on the 556XI, not because it is inherently a bad gun, but because there's been lots of reviews and reports of poor quality control and reliability. The Legion is nice, but you pay a *lot* for cool factor for a P226, though it does have a lot of it. I don't know much about the X5.
I have read a lot of bad things about the Sig 556xi Russian but not on the 556 version. If I buy the xi it will mainly be a range toy and a suppressor host. I already have two Steyr Augs, one HK 33, and three AR-15s so the xi won't be a "SHTF" gun, as much as it will be a beat around gun. I agree with you completely on the Legion, but I'm kinda a Sig nerd so the extras intrigue me. I'm also considering a P226 Enhanced Elite instead of the Legion. The X5 is purely a "cool" factor, and competition pistol for me. It's a P226 that is completely hand made, hand fitted in Germany. They are SAO and the 5 in the name means they have a 5" barrel. They are a nice competition sig, which would be fun for when and if I get back into IPSC, or steel matches.
This is my problem, I kinda have an excuse for all of them
Whichever P226 I end up buying will be in a weird place... it won't be an EDC because I have my P228 for that, but it won't be a safe queen. I take a lot of shooting and tactics courses with our local Sheriffs department SWAT team, so I want a good full sized Sig for the training. I want to stick with Sig because out of all my guns the Sigs feel the most natural in my hands.
Well, all the build up for the new Springfield Armory Saint ended up being a bit anticlimactic... The way they were keeping it quiet and building it up with the ads made me exspect a new modular rifle to compete with the ACR, MPX, or 556xi (well... you know... if those companies ever actually come out with the kits they claim they are going to to actually make them modular...). Or maybe (wishful thinking) another bullpup to compete with Steyr, IWI, and Keltec. Or maybe even making something original and making their own unique rifle like Sig did with the 556, IWI and the Galil, FN Scar, or Armalite AR-180. But no... they made an AR.
First look at SAs new Ar, I gotta say I was disappointed. I do see good things such as it got puked on by BCM, it has NiB trigger group, and some fancy laser engraves all for a low MSRP of $899. It's not a terrible price for a starter AR-15 with actual quality furniture. But it's just another AR, and it really doesn't bring anything new to the table that Windham, Smith, BCM, Stag, Spikes, Colt, PSA, or Bushmaster already hasn't. It comes with a cool case though? I can't help but think with all the BCM furniture on it if it really is a SA, or if it's just a low budget BCM sold by SA. So far I am unimpressed and the Saint is an ain't in my book. So many missed opportunities from a company with the resources to make something new.
This is just my opinion, and opinions are kinda like certain body parts people have that all stink equally. Well... some may be worse than others...
Ruberu wrote: Ok, friendly people of Dakka. Next year I am only allowing myself to buy one gun... I am having trouble deciding between 2 pistols and 1 rifle. My three choices are all sigs, X Five Entry, Sig Legion P226, or a 556XI. I already have piles of 9mms and piles of 223/556s but I really want all three of these.
I would pass on the 556XI, not because it is inherently a bad gun, but because there's been lots of reviews and reports of poor quality control and reliability. The Legion is nice, but you pay a *lot* for cool factor for a P226, though it does have a lot of it. I don't know much about the X5.
The X5 is an awesome bang stick, and visually beautiful. Its very accurate and you can drop multi taps with great speed. It is heavy though and will slow up your transitions.
However, it is very pricey?
I am not a fan of the Legion at all. They took a good 226 and tacticooled it for shopping mall operators. better to get a stock 226 and tune the trigger and sights to personal taste.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ruberu wrote: Whichever P226 I end up buying will be in a weird place... it won't be an EDC because I have my P228 for that, but it won't be a safe queen. I take a lot of shooting and tactics courses with our local Sheriffs department SWAT team, so I want a good full sized Sig for the training. I want to stick with Sig because out of all my guns the Sigs feel the most natural in my hands.
Also most X5 types are SAO whereas 226s are typically DA/SA. Thats a significant difference. Which platform do you prefer?
First off, I'm beginning to have the same feel about the Legions as you do. They took a perfectly good pistol that was made in the 80's, gave it a supposedly crappy finish that rubs off, and then puked tacticool all over it. This is why I'm kinda leaning towards the 226 extreme.
As for DA/SA or SAO I really don't have a preference. I have a lot more experience with DA/SA from my other Sigs, my CZs, HK, and Berettas. My only experiences with SAO are from my Browning Hi Power and my 1911, and of course my Uberti SA Armies, but that's a different beast lol. To date with tens of thousands of 9mm shot I have never needed the double action on any of my handguns. And more often then not I tend to pull the hammer back on my DAs when I draw so I never really fire from DA.
I really have been enjoying shooting my Browning lately, so I'm half tempted to get the X5 to change things up. Most of what I'm going to be using this pistol for is possibly competition shooting and the occasional pistol training courses. My original want for a DA/SA is so I don't mess myself up considering my EDC is a Sig P228.
Edit add: The only problem I have with the X5 is that I would like to suppress the pistol. I can buy a barrel for the regular P226 but I Sig doesn't make a barrel for the X5. This is my dilemma, regular 226 and suppressor or X5 and cool points lol.
Ok: 1. What type of competition? accuracy shooting or run and gun (or in my case waddle and shoot).
2. If you're firm on liking the suppressor and can get the required gov'ment approval then that is a factor.
The X fives are more accuracy oriented. However, you can tweek up a 226 to be as good as a an X 5 tactical (sights, trigger, and put a damn Bar Sto smith fitted barrel on it thats threaded). https://www.barsto.com/category_main.cfm?ID=226&cco=66
I'd put a fitted Bar-Sto up against any barrel in the business including Sig itself.
Most of the competitions I'll be running are IPSC, so mostly accuracy and some speed. A natural pointing handgun is all I need for this, which all Sigs are for me. I may be running some three gun matches as well, they will require speed and being able to holster the side arm. Steel matches are pure accuracy competitions which is where the X5 would shine with its custom fit and 5" barrel. The training courses are a mixture of handgun and rifle training. Lots of transition drills, shooting from cover, moving and shooting, long range shooting, extremely close range shooting, and shooting while wounded. (We are not actually wounded for that last part. We usually strap a tourniquet on one of our appendages and move around for awhile and then engage threats if we need to.)
I think you might have sold me on a regular P226 with that Bar-sto barrel. I'm pretty sure this will give me a perfect, well rounded pistol that I can use for competition and every day use. I already have suppressors so I just needed something other than my rifles and Glock 19 to put them on.
Thanks for your help Frazzled! Sometimes all I need to do is bounce ideas off of people that aren't my normal circle.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I made up my mind, I've decided to go with the P226 X-Five Tactical. Bar-Sto makes a threaded barrel for the Sig X5 series and they will do the required fitting for me, with an additional cost of course.
Thanks again Frazzled for pointing out Bar-Sto, I completely forgot about them.
a glock that serves as my home defense, a shot gun thats a collectors (Old one that got ordered outta a sears catalog back in the day) an AR 15 for property defense(live out in the desert, and we have coyotes) and a PTR 91, because if gak hits the fan, i dont wanna bitch around with 5.56, .308 or bust.
So, I want a "stupid" gun. I would like to have something reminiscent of the shotgun used in Mad Max/ The Road Warrior. Namely, a sawed-off double barrel pistol grip shotgun. While a 12-gauge would be cool, I have a feeling it might be a little harsh on the hands. I'm looking for a .410 shotgun that isn't too expensive that I can modify.
cuda1179 wrote: So, I want a "stupid" gun. I would like to have something reminiscent of the shotgun used in Mad Max/ The Road Warrior. Namely, a sawed-off double barrel pistol grip shotgun. While a 12-gauge would be cool, I have a feeling it might be a little harsh on the hands. I'm looking for a .410 shotgun that isn't too expensive that I can modify.
cuda1179 wrote: So, I want a "stupid" gun. I would like to have something reminiscent of the shotgun used in Mad Max/ The Road Warrior. Namely, a sawed-off double barrel pistol grip shotgun. While a 12-gauge would be cool, I have a feeling it might be a little harsh on the hands. I'm looking for a .410 shotgun that isn't too expensive that I can modify.
'Sawed off' may cause you some legal troubles...
Not if I get the proper paperwork first. Or, alternatively, if I can fine an unassembled receiver I can make it a "pistol" and not have to abide by the minimal barrel length laws. I just have to keep it over 26 inches overall length.
CptJake wrote: I don't think you will find a 'receiver' for a double barreled pistol grip shotgun. I could be wrong.
Wait wait wait, we're barking up the wrong tree
This concept is a century older than Mad Max, and was a staple for African rich white guys killing mammals.
CptJake wrote: I don't think you will find a 'receiver' for a double barreled pistol grip shotgun. I could be wrong.
Wait wait wait, we're barking up the wrong tree
This concept is a century older than Mad Max, and was a staple for African rich white guys killing mammals.
Anybody hoping that the Hearing Protection Act will gain traction with the incoming administration and be passed? I'd love to be able to go to the range and shoot more comfortably. Would love to shoot my AR pistol without all "BLAM".
What does this mean for you?
No $200 tax stamp
No excessive wait times
No NFA trusts
No fingerprint cards, passport photos, or Chief Law Enforcement Officer notification
A simple process, just like when you purchase most firearms through your dealer
Vaktathi wrote: It'd be nice, but I'll be shocked if it goes anywhere. We can hope though.
I think there is enough call for its removal from NFA, as well as it's not a firearm, and NOT a killing device like the movies try to portray. It makes shooting more pleasant, safer (tinnitus and assists in accuracy), and when hunting, wont scare game away.
It's full of WIN!!
Fun fact: it was added to the NFA because of poaching. Starving families during the Great Depression supplemented their meals with game (and the occasional livestock). Ranchers and farmers pushed hard to get silencers added to the NFA of 1934.
Another fun fact:
Silencers are only illegal in 8 repressive, archaic and backward states:
Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote: Dude, thats great timing. I was waiting on the election to bother with building an AR. .300 BLK here we go.
Yessir! Im swapping out a 16" 5.56 barrel for a 300BO for a middy build for hopefully next years hunting season. PA has passed semi hunting, still awaiting Wolfe's signature, then the game commissioners regs.
I would love to see suppressors get off the NFA, ive been holding off getting an Osprey for my Scorpion until the stamp wait is under 6 months, but I'm just not optimistic itll ever happen
Really Id like to see the NFA gone entirely, or at least just limit it to MG's and DD's (and remove the hughes amendment), just judging on history though it doesnt seem like anyone is ever willing to touch the NFA.
Fight the Noise is a movement to regain our Voice. To exercise our right to protect our hearing and silence the sound. To be responsible gun owners and be treated as such. We want lawÂabiding citizens to have the ability to purchase and own silencers without being subjected to excessive wait times, paperwork, and taxes. We are the silent majority, and it is our time to be heard. We are your Friends. We are your Coworkers. We are The Suppressed™.
Speak up for your right to silence. By joining the Fight the Noise movement, you are loudly stating that The Suppressed have had enough. So how do you show your support? Click on the links below; write your elected officials encouraging them to support the Hearing Protection Act, and join our grassroots movement becoming a member of The Suppressed. Remember, when The Suppressed stand together, our voice will be heard.
), Spikes gas tude, BCM low pro gas block, 15" BCM KMR Alpha, #4 BCM charging handle, either a Spikes 
