Three sheets of single-folded brown paper in the top of my box followed by a small gulf of empty space, and a bunch of sprues and resin models that had been in the bouncy castle of international transit for a couple of weeks. Maybe you got all of my packing?
@ Shieldwolf - Yes I did misunderstand, I had no idea that the topic had shifted to the FG campaign. I also second the motion that you try to have clarity in all things (scale, costs, sprue layouts etc.) as the clearer things are the more likely everyone is to be satisfied. A few extra questions for you if I may;
Judging by how similar the layouts are for the Orcs and the SM is this a standard pattern for you? Can we expect the same for every HIPS kit you produce?
When will the items from this kickstarter go out for general release? As I would like to pick up a few bears and yaks when available.
Do you have any firm notions of when the FG kickstarter will occur?
have you been able to source a OZ/NZ stockist?
Cheers in advance.
@Micky and Azazelx I had no packing of any description in my shipment, perhaps it all went to Micky?
Azazelx wrote: Three sheets of single-folded brown paper in the top of my box followed by a small gulf of empty space, and a bunch of sprues and resin models that had been in the bouncy castle of international transit for a couple of weeks. Maybe you got all of my packing?
I have to agree with this, my mammoths were very well packed but my second parcel was lacking in protective packaging which was dissapointing.
I had a couple of broken parts on the resin girls ( sword and staff ) but easily fixed with glue so no real big issue for me, but I would have preferred some better care with the packing considering the contents.
I will still back the goblin project as there was some nice looking sculpts in that, but I think the bodies need more variation as with the sheildmaidens they seem very static and limited in poses.
Also as with the sheildmaidens if you go extravagant with motion (hair blowing) don't forget this has to work with the rest of the body movement, I don't see how the heads work with the bodies when they don't reflect the same movement, to be honest I am looking for alternative heads for my sheildmaidens as I ain't a fan of the ones included at all.
I understand as a company it is hard to get it right but there was so much that was done wrong with this KS that it has left a sour taste, scale which has been a big issue for some, weapon choices, packing and response to feedback to name the major ones.
These really need to be addressed before you go forward with the next KS, to be honest I won't be backing any further female models as they just don't work for me in scale or look, but I am still interested in the goblin KS as long as it is clear and finalised before the KS finishes.
Try Statuesque's new Narrow Female heads perhaps? Someone also posted that Sisters of Silence heads and other parts fit well. I found that the 2-handed sword SoS poses don't work at all, and people have said GW Dark Eldar parts work, so presumably Dark Eldar/Eldar/Dark Elf and possibly even Wood/High Elf/Harlequin parts and heads?
My decision as to whether to back future projects is largely going to depend on how well SW resolve my miscast bears issue, though I'm certainly hoping they also work on the other problems raised here (too many banners/horns, misleading info on scale, giant-sized weapons on heroes, etc.).
I think that some of you guys are unfairly dogpiling on Shieldwolf here. In every interaction I have seen here they have remained open to taking constructive criticism, and polite. The same can't be said for many of you.
From my perspective they were massively responsive to customer feedback, doing basically a 180 on the design of the Shieldmaidens after a lot of community feedback. They went from sky clad ladies to heavily armored Lagertha types.
In fact, aside from some bare kneecaps and a single bare mid-section, as I looked at my miniatures I was struck by how heavily armored they are. Layers of leather chain and plate cover them from knee to neck. They are wearing the most clothes and armor of any barbarians I own (and I have many).
I don't know how much more "responsiveness" you guys expect, and if that is even reasonable.
The kit isn't perfect, but I think it is important for some of you critics out there to remember that the kit is already produced, and there is a pretty limited amount that Shieldwolf can do about it at this point. They have paid for the molds, etc. and it is only fair to expect them to make the most of the situation.
This makes it sound like the kit is a bad one, and it isn't! In fact, while I don't own any of the post Basilean Mantic efforts in plastic, I think this is clearly the best hard plastic fantasy kit to come out of a Kickstarter. They delivered a HIPS kit of heavily armored fantasy ladies with minimal delay. I think that is pretty darn impressive.
Are there things I would change about the kit? Absolutely. They are a tad tall. I would have taken some spears gladly, some of the heads aren't great, the weapons are a bit all over the place. But the point is that compared to the efforts of many others, Shieldwolf has performed admirably, put out a good kit, and there is now an all female fantasy kit in HIPS on the market thanks to our funding.
There are definitely things they could have done better, but every indication is that they are working on doing them better the next time around. I just don't understand the hostile tone and games of internet "gotcha" some of you feel justified in pursuing. They aren't Palladium or Prodos Games. Surely a little benefit of the doubt is justified?
Gallahad wrote: I think that some of you guys are unfairly dogpiling on Shieldwolf here. In every interaction I have seen here they have remained open to taking constructive criticism, and polite. The same can't be said for many of you.
From my perspective they were massively responsive to customer feedback, doing basically a 180 on the design of the Shieldmaidens after a lot of community feedback. They went from sky clad ladies to heavily armored Lagertha types.
In fact, aside from some bare kneecaps and a single bare mid-section, as I looked at my miniatures I was struck by how heavily armored they are. Layers of leather chain and plate cover them from knee to neck. They are wearing the most clothes and armor of any barbarians I own (and I have many).
I don't know how much more "responsiveness" you guys expect, and if that is even reasonable.
The kit isn't perfect, but I think it is important for some of you critics out there to remember that the kit is already produced, and there is a pretty limited amount that Shieldwolf can do about it at this point. They have paid for the molds, etc. and it is only fair to expect them to make the most of the situation.
This makes it sound like the kit is a bad one, and it isn't! In fact, while I don't own any of the post Basilean Mantic efforts in plastic, I think this is clearly the best hard plastic fantasy kit to come out of a Kickstarter. They delivered a HIPS kit of heavily armored fantasy ladies with minimal delay. I think that is pretty darn impressive.
Are there things I would change about the kit? Absolutely. They are a tad tall. I would have taken some spears gladly, some of the heads aren't great, the weapons are a bit all over the place. But the point is that compared to the efforts of many others, Shieldwolf has performed admirably, put out a good kit, and there is now an all female fantasy kit in HIPS on the market thanks to our funding.
There are definitely things they could have done better, but every indication is that they are working on doing them better the next time around. I just don't understand the hostile tone and games of internet "gotcha" some of you feel justified in pursuing. They aren't Palladium or Prodos Games. Surely a little benefit of the doubt is justified?
I don't think anyone here is going out to be nasty to Shieldwolf but just give constructive criticism (although some of the posts have been a little abrasive). I think everyone here wishes them the best and is aiming to help them get even better and in order to do so they need to hear of such criticism. There have been issues with this kickstarter for many people and by taking this onboard Shieldwolf improves as a company and makes more money. The fact they are willing to hear people out shows that they themselves recognise this fact and do not adopt the Ostrich position which doesn't help them improve and evolve as a business, if we as customers were to simply tell them the things that they have done well they would learn little.
Personally I have stated that I am planning on continuing my support in the form of buying more product as well as backing a future Kickstarter but I will not support their next for various reasons, if I was to be assured that my problems with it were addressed I would back it, if they are happy to keep the elements that I perceive to be problems then I will not. If these are conscious decisions for them then of course they will keep them and I wont spend my money on things I don't want.
Furthermore our comments here also serve to inform other customers here of what they are getting, if they are after 28mm Barbarian style female warriors then they will know that these models have scale issues. If however they seek fantastic, ball jointed HIPS warriors and scale is not an issue then they will know that what they are getting is a damn good product and I haven't heard anyone dispute that. I also believe that the Mountain Orc models are even better than the SM and are probably the best fantasy HIPS models I have seen outside of GW, which has made me even more determined to back the FG Kickstarter and go in big for it. This I would not do if I thought SW was producing crap.
Gallahad wrote: I think that some of you guys are unfairly dogpiling on Shieldwolf here. In every interaction I have seen here they have remained open to taking constructive criticism, and polite. The same can't be said for many of you.
From my perspective they were massively responsive to customer feedback, doing basically a 180 on the design of the Shieldmaidens after a lot of community feedback. They went from sky clad ladies to heavily armored Lagertha types.
In fact, aside from some bare kneecaps and a single bare mid-section, as I looked at my miniatures I was struck by how heavily armored they are. Layers of leather chain and plate cover them from knee to neck. They are wearing the most clothes and armor of any barbarians I own (and I have many).
I don't know how much more "responsiveness" you guys expect, and if that is even reasonable.
The kit isn't perfect, but I think it is important for some of you critics out there to remember that the kit is already produced, and there is a pretty limited amount that Shieldwolf can do about it at this point. They have paid for the molds, etc. and it is only fair to expect them to make the most of the situation.
This makes it sound like the kit is a bad one, and it isn't! In fact, while I don't own any of the post Basilean Mantic efforts in plastic, I think this is clearly the best hard plastic fantasy kit to come out of a Kickstarter. They delivered a HIPS kit of heavily armored fantasy ladies with minimal delay. I think that is pretty darn impressive.
Are there things I would change about the kit? Absolutely. They are a tad tall. I would have taken some spears gladly, some of the heads aren't great, the weapons are a bit all over the place. But the point is that compared to the efforts of many others, Shieldwolf has performed admirably, put out a good kit, and there is now an all female fantasy kit in HIPS on the market thanks to our funding.
There are definitely things they could have done better, but every indication is that they are working on doing them better the next time around. I just don't understand the hostile tone and games of internet "gotcha" some of you feel justified in pursuing. They aren't Palladium or Prodos Games. Surely a little benefit of the doubt is justified?
To be honest I think you are being rather hostile to the backers that have posted concerns or issues they have received with the models, yes mistakes was made but no one is trying to destroy them if anything we are trying to make sure they improve for the future.
I have even stated that the mammoths were amazing sculpts and cast of high quality, also that the resin miniatures were better than I had hoped for.
The actual shieldmaidens were dissapointing I ain't going to lie and say yes they are great when they wasn't what I was expecting to receive, so I highlighted the problems and stated that they were not for me which is th truth.
The scale is an issue for my needs and the lack of spears as well, I ain't a fan of the head design as I don't think the over exaggerated movement works with the bodies.
I actually like the overall design of the bodies armour and styling and haven't actually heard anyone state any different, but if you have hair blowing sideways on the model and clothing hanging straight down it looks wrong, hey maybe that's just me but it throws the model off IMHO.
So really I don't see what your issue is to be honest, fine you love the kit and think it's great lucky you but it wasn't exactly what was promised from the start and some confusion due to communication avenues got lost to some backers hence the can do better feedback.
ingtaer wrote: A few extra questions for you if I may;
Judging by how similar the layouts are for the Orcs and the SM is this a standard pattern for you? Can we expect the same for every HIPS kit you produce?
If I have understood correctly you are reffering to the fact we include different sprues with parts of them multiplied. We also make sure to have full sprues tooled. If that's what you mean by pattern, yes, you can expect the same. If that's not what you meant, kindly rephrase. :-)
ingtaer wrote: When will the items from this kickstarter go out for general release? As I would like to pick up a few bears and yaks when available.
They should be going out this week since everything is ready, we are only missing the 360s which should be supplied by Wednesday.
They will not be availbe this week however. The reasons are that the preorders of the plastics will only finish mailing tomorrow morning (we should have already been done with that but we are not, very thankful for that!) plus we want/need more time for the Shieldmaiden KS. A couple of weeks or even a whole month of delaying new product can't tilt the scale for our logistics. They should therefore be up end of this month or worse case scenario (which I doubt) first week of June.
ingtaer wrote: Do you have any firm notions of when the FG kickstarter will occur?
That should have been August 2017 with the Warmaidens/Dragonbreds launching May 2017 (this month). Now the program has tilted at launching the Warmaidens in the Summer (no precise date yet before clearing with the Shieldmaiden KS) and pushes the FG KS reboot late this year.
ingtaer wrote: have you been able to source a OZ/NZ stockist?
We have looked for some in both countries and are occasionally making ourselves remembered, same goes for US/Canada distributors; all of whom are very wary or indecisive. European distributors seem much more easier to do bussiness with, despite terms being very friendly for everyone alike regardless of distance (i.e. free shipping). Hopefully in the years to come that will change. :-)
I haven't had a whole lot of time, but this is what I've got so far. Fireforge knight arms fit beautifully with the Shieldmaidens. Even the chain mail texture matches. The helmeted heads, however, are a bit too heroic for the svelte warrioresses. I used an Eccentric Minis knight head on one of the miniatures and it looks much better. The third mini in the pic uses WGF samurai arms and a Survivor head. For a better for, I should have cut half of a Shieldmaiden's neck off and used that on the Survivor. Next time.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The next set of minis use Mantic Succubi and Naiad parts, respectively. The human one uses Survivor arms and a survivor head.
In my post, I meant WGF survivors. For KDM, I'll probably end up using just the hands (with weapons) on SW arms and the heads, as well as any greebly extras I can spare. KDM arms are enough of a chore as it is.
My conclusion is that Fireforge Knights provide the best alternate arms.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I haven't had a whole lot of time, but this is what I've got so far. Fireforge knight arms fit beautifully with the Shieldmaidens. Even the chain mail texture matches. The helmeted heads, however, are a bit too heroic for the svelte warrioresses.
The Helmets look fine, unless I am mistaken a Greathelm was indeed a helmet worn over a helmet. So it would have to look a bit heroic.
The torsos all look great, and while there are only a few leg poses, I don't hate any of them. The details are fine like historical minis, and easy to discern. The optional cloaks and hooded heads are friggin' genius and make the kit a must-have for me all by themselves. Now I won't have to cut so many arms off of Pistolier jackets to give my characters capes. The bodies and optional cloaks give a solid basis for many, many covers ions to come.
The arms look great, proportional and interesting. Compare to most historical or Mantic minis and you see why I care. Many of the weapons are fun and well designed. Love the Conan sword, crossbows, slayer axe, hand and a half sword, and falchion. Love love love the shields. I will use them all.
Many of the faces are well sculpted. Love the Beckinsale and 80's Storm heads the most.
The scale. I thought I remembered them saying the Shieldmaidens would be tall during the campaign, when we were discussing the Delf silhouette and how tall the post-IOB elves are. I got what I was expecting and wanting. Personally, I always prefer taller miniatures. Dreamforge good, Antares bad.
I was also glad that the minis were feminine without being cheesecake. The 'boob plate' looked designed for comfortable support rather than titillation, and the bare midriff minis while sillier, were far from stupid.
What was meh:
The She-Ra and 90's Storm heads. The hair is too two-dimensional and doesn't look so much windswept as styled with Crisco.
The limited number of weapons and arms. I remember that Shieldwolf was planning for fewer torsos and gave us an extra two torsos for every eight, so it's kind of backhanded to complain about having to use every single arm including the banner and horn per every ten maidens, but yeah, it's an issue. That's why there is a need to find compatible arms from other kits, and why I hope SW provides ample compatible arm options in their next kit.
The details are much more in line with historical kits than fantasy kits with exaggerated edges and textures. This makes it difficult to use parts from other manufacturers like GW and Mantic without those parts looking off. Not a deal breaker, just a challenge.
What needs to improve:
The Melannia faces. Why? Even if some of the maidens need to take selfies over their crushed enemies, they should have more dignified expressions than a valley girl feebly attempting to look seductive. Hard to drive your enemies before you when they can't take you seriously. Guess I'll put those heads on the midriff baring bodies...
The hair is really goofy on a couple of the heads. Please give some more toned down options in the next hit.
No more Cloud swords, please. Poots can get away with that because we all expect that from him. We expect better from you.
The scale? Seems like a lot of customers have an issue with the height of the minis. I don't know if you can pull a Dreamforge and put them on thinner bases than the competition or if the next kit needs to have more diverse heights, but I'd hate to see Shieldwolf lose customers over the issue.
The bases. Jeez, those are unwieldy. Are they storming an Aaron Brothers' discount frame shop? Would it be affordable to get Renedra's thinner green bases in bulk when they make your next plastics? The bases are especially a problem with the mountain orcs, who don't fit on them at all.
All in all, I really enjoy the Shieldmaidens. I traded for more from someone who didn't like his, but I will also likely buy more from Shieldwolf when I pledge for the next plastic warrioress kit, if they are compatible. They are some of the best non-GW fantasy plastics on the market.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I haven't had a whole lot of time, but this is what I've got so far. Fireforge knight arms fit beautifully with the Shieldmaidens. Even the chain mail texture matches. The helmeted heads, however, are a bit too heroic for the svelte warrioresses.
The Helmets look fine, unless I am mistaken a Greathelm was indeed a helmet worn over a helmet. So it would have to look a bit heroic.
So, GW wasn't so far off with their SM Centurions? "Yo dawg, I heard you like armor..."
Every time I see that huge helmet on her, it makes me think of the queen riding out to Conan in Conan the Destroyer.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: At least they aren't upside down... Seriously, does anyone have a free image host they would recommend? Photobucket has become a real crapbucket.
Highlord, they are upside down when I post to Dakka. Photobucket works, but slowly and sometimes freezes up my iPad or laptop.
The apprentice's open hand is from the banner top. The staff was the banner with a cut down Cloud sword on top. The apprentice has the flail hand with the hook moved to the top and some parts from another banner arm as the rest of the staff.
A good day to all wargamers! Many things have taken place ever since our last newsletter –and some of which you’ll be very interested in learning about!
The major news is that Shieldwolf Miniatures has decided to enter the sci-fi army wargaming scene. With the revelation of the Shieldmaiden Army opening the way to foretell the abilities and potential of Shieldwolf Miniatures, we aim to make a grand entrance in sci-fi to service our supporters who ever since we showed up have questioned whether the company would ever enter the sci-fi market.
For this reason, besides our co-funding of fantasy, all other funds reserved for the production and copyright fees of “Heroquest(TM)” will be committed in the development of sci-fi armies instead. The Shieldmaiden project with your support allowed us to create not only a highly affordable but also the only complete great quality Female Barbarian fantasy army worldwide.
With the augmented knowledge we received from this project and with your pledged support and constant encouragement, Shieldwolf Miniatures aims even higher, raising the bar like never before!
Our next project features a complete Female Paladin fantasy army, a Female Paladin space army and a Shieldmaiden Space army! All done in hard plastic and polyurethane resin, with the quality you have come to expect from us; KS-3 will be offering *huge* affordability to honor the backers who place their faith in us once again and we are very excited to pick up the glove and attempt to make these armies into a reality.
The initial planning had us combining the initial funding sprue with enough parts out of which one could choose to either build a sci-fi or fantasy army. This idea will not be implemented however as the person that Angelos has brought aboard has suggested we do different sprues instead for each genre.
As you probably know, we gave the backers of this project here the decision of what comes first as a token of additional appreciation for their support; we cherish your opinions even if they are not always implemented. So, our supporters decided that Wolf Wardens come first at funding level.
We are even considering to tilt our Warmaidens (who we are looking very forward to since it will allow us not only to create a very unique faction but also prove the super dynamic posing we can offer with our know-how) in favor of the Paladin faction as we mean to supply not only our supporters with a wider range but also commence supporting the Kingdom of Talliareum (human race).
The date of the KS-3 (we are calling it like that to abbreviate) was May 30th, but recent developments have resulted in that KS-3 launch date will be postponed, so we are currently looking at a late summer campaign. It will all depend on how quickly KS-2.5 wraps up, we predict end of June but real life happens and we never make promises we won’t keep.
We are all very eager to launch this new crowd funding project and create more unique high quality affordable armies, but we will not allow backers from our previous project not to be dealt with first! Considering you might have been in their place -even if you happen to be among those who already have your rewards in front of you- we think you will agree with us.
On another note, we must also make reference to the commissioned work we undertake for various companies worldwide. Having produced literally tenths of thousands of miniatures for manufacturers of three continents in more than ten countries, we have reached the point where our production slots are currently all filled out. This forces us to take necessary action so we will not be taking any further commissions for the entire 2017. We appreciate the interest and faith you’ve shown but Shieldwolf Miniatures aims to maintain the same high standards of quality in both product and service and recognize the limits of the company. For further information and reservation of our production slots for 2018 please proceed in contacting us via the usual channel.
Mr Morden wrote:The wolf warden looks great
The Sister does look like she is holding the gun wrong?
Thank you, we'll do our best so you like the Sisters of Talliareum as well I guess :-)
While the rest of the miniature is going to be very close to the concept artwork (you'll judge for yourselves, although we always invest in good quality artwork we got more than that prepared to show you), the gun(s) in particular are going to have larger nozzles and not so loaded with detail as shown in the concept artwork. That's due mostly to tooling restrictions and not because we don't like what we've done.
skarsol wrote:What ever happened to those larger spider woman looking models?
They are going to be made available at our next KS project. And the plan is always the same as the one we had introduced with the Forest Goblins, i.e. should the project go high enough we will substitute each 3 resin models with 9 in plastic at the same cost. People who however will prefer them in resin need only ask (although we don't see the reason for prefering that but to each their own).
ArtIsGreat wrote:I hope the sci if ones are Primaris sized now
The scale is going to follow the Shieldmaiden plastics, just a bit "beefier" due to their heavy/-ier armour. Perhaps a Dakkadakka member could post pictures of any recent scifi female plastics next to one of our plastic ladies to help you out.
The only thing we will be doing different in this project (besides funding on our own the sci-fi alternative plastics) compared to the Shieldmaiden kit is offer more weapon options and "bulk up" a bit some of the weapons as these are the "heavies".
grefven wrote: Great news! Looking forward to see where this ends up.
skarsol wrote:What ever happened to those larger spider woman looking models?
They are going to be made available at our next KS project. And the plan is always the same as the one we had introduced with the Forest Goblins, i.e. should the project go high enough we will substitute each 3 resin models with 9 in plastic at the same cost. People who however will prefer them in plastic need only ask (although we don't see the reason for prefering that but to each their own).
So they'll be in the late summer KS3? Do you think they'd ship in 2017?
And the June teaser we droppped yesterday on our last KS update, we will be showing plenty in the weeks prior to KS-3 once the official announcement has been made, we hope you like what we have been working on! :-)
@fox-light713
We toyed with the idea of using the same arms in the kits, but at the end we opted for the extra mile and decided against it. Some heads, bodies and tabards/furs/etc will be the only things unique for both kits (fantasy & sci-fi).
Here's how the arms evolved for the sci-fi plastic kit for the Sisters of Faith(although the Sisters of Wolves are the ones we are launching first in regards to the sci-fi portion of the project, respecting our backers vote who favoured the nordics compared to our paladins who follow afterwards)
and a very partial sample of a render.
The amount of work in preparing this is a lot (and we have more news next month to share with you guys). This is going to be a hard and interesting Summer.
We toyed with the idea of using the same arms in the kits, but at the end we opted for the extra mile and decided against it. Some heads, bodies and tabards/furs/etc will be the only things unique for both kits (fantasy & sci-fi).
Here's how the arms evolved for the sci-fi plastic kit for the Sisters of Faith(although the Sisters of Wolves are the ones we are launching first in regards to the sci-fi portion of the project, respecting our backers vote who favoured the nordics compared to our paladins who follow afterwards)
and a very partial sample of a render.
The amount of work in preparing this is a lot (and we have more news next month to share with you guys). This is going to be a hard and interesting Summer.
@Azazelx
One can use the scifi minis wherever they like, this has been a major turning point for us and we are genuinely curious to see how the community reacts to our newly designed path.
We will be waiting for one of the KS big dogs to have ended their stroll in July however before commencing revealing major stuff for both fantasy and scifi.
Our current indications show major interest in our plastic female paladins but the backers voted for the Wolves and that's what's coming first.
Of course we can use miniatures in anything, but I have the freedom (that you guys obviously don't for legal reasons) to speak the obvious - in the same way that you and many others can slap the 9th Age logo on your minis, but carefully tiptoed around the words "Warhammer", "Fantasy", and "Battle".
You know I've supported you in (I think) all of your campaigns, and happily bought stuff off you at retail before you were a KS company, but I do call a spade a spade with any company, not just yourselves.
I'd happily back either the Paladins or Wolves, but the wolves are more distinct from the existing GW kits like SoS and SoB. That could work for or against you in terms of numbers, though.
@Azazelx
Well, our fantasy offerings are going to be fairly enticing too, we have planned for an equal number of stretch goals in regards to fantasy/sci-fi, I think the idiom is "one hand washes the other" :-)
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Afraid I'll give myself a seizure attempting to see those images after watching the video multiple times.
Will wait for Shieldwolf or some kind Dakkaite to post the stills up.
Just google "youtube video frame by frame" next time, and it will allow you to watch the video frame by frame if you so desire. Less risk of seizure if so.
warboss wrote: When did the shield maidens move into scifi?
This year they sent out a teaser flyer with the last KS pledges, the KS will be the first chance to get them and i think its going to be in very early Aug after CMON's July campaign
I don't think I will be buying more big resin kits from SW unless they significantly improve their quality control.
I got my replacement ice bears through, almost three months after I let SW know about the miscasts from my KS ones. They did kindly send a full set of three despite only two miscasts, but...
One of them has three claws missing from his left rear paw -- not sure if this is a miscast or damage from handling, but they didn't appear to be in the box.
One of them has several missing teeth. Not a huge problem since this is the "spare" -- I still have the original one undamaged. But, another indication of poor QC.
The third one has the exact same issues as the original version, where it looks like the two halves of the mold had been misaligned by around 1mm, leaving a thick area that's a bit like a mold line but that won't be removable without leaving a significant area fur-less and lacking in detail.
I've been back in touch with them but I'm getting a bit soured on the whole thing to be honest.
So we're doing replacements and missing models now? I wish they'd communicate these (and other) things via updates rather than fething kickstarter comments.
All missing items have been mailed -a very very few remaining are ready and packed, to be shipped by Tuesday.
Everything will be on July's update, we are very busy doing something else at the moment (I am not referring to KS-3) and we'll talk about that also.
Ian was offered a full refund as this is the second time he receives flawed items. Miscasts we can comprehend that it's only human to miss something during QC (thankfully that's something we rarely hear of), damaged however in the same area begins to point heavily in the local post office doings and not on our side. Our customer service will see the person(s) involved in such misfortunate happenings served. As always.
Last time I asked about it on the KS comments, I was told you'd get to it once you finished shipping the last stragglers, and that sorting out missing items would be in an update afterwards. So I should let you know about it then.
Which never happened.
So unless you already know what was missing from my order - which is possible, since it seems to be a systemic failure on the extras, then you've missed mine, and anyone else who was waiting for an update.
Seriously. Stop using the fething KS comments section to disseminate information. Not everyone has the time or inclination to follow in detail using Kickstarter's gakky comment system. Use the update function so that all backers get the info. It's a major failure in your communication, as has been mentioned by myself and others as well.
@Azazelx
In this case there has been a miscommunication. I apologize for that, allow me to clarify; we prioritized sending out parcels of full pledges first, afterwhich we send out missing items/replacements. We found it fair that people not having received anything yet should be favoured in contrary to others that have received their pledges yet some have had an issue or two. If something's missing/broken in your pledge, kindly send us a message on Kickstarter and someone will get back to you sorting it out.
Everyone will be serviced respectively :-)
We are going to be putting out all the information necessary on July's update, should someone have anything not dealt with we will answer him/her, we will assume all responsability that all backers get what they asked for.
We only use the KS comment section to answer direct questions we are asked about. We don't pretend people follow the comment section, it is just a very swift and direct way to interact with our backers. We try making the most of it but monthly detailed updates will still be the norm.
I think when you're sending out replacements for a known casting error it would make sense to take a special look to see if the same error has happened again. :(
Pretty sure the missing bits weren't damage in transit, as I couldn't find them inside the box. It's not like the packaging was really adequate for resin though (cardboard box, three bears loose inside, loads of foam packaging peanuts chucked in on top).
I would much rather have undamaged bears than a refund, but if you guys can't supply the former, I will settle for the latter. I don't think you're close to the position, claimed a year or two back, of doing the best resins in the business, though, till you sort out QC and packaging. Mierce are still streets ahead on both, based on my experience so far.
So we're doing replacements and missing models now? I wish they'd communicate these (and other) things via updates rather than fething kickstarter comments.
Last time I asked about it on the KS comments, I was told you'd get to it once you finished shipping the last stragglers, and that sorting out missing items would be in an update afterwards. So I should let you know about it then.
Which never happened.
So unless you already know what was missing from my order - which is possible, since it seems to be a systemic failure on the extras, then you've missed mine, and anyone else who was waiting for an update.
Seriously. Stop using the fething KS comments section to disseminate information. Not everyone has the time or inclination to follow in detail using Kickstarter's gakky comment system. Use the update function so that all backers get the info. It's a major failure in your communication, as has been mentioned by myself and others as well.
Mate you and others need to learn to read, SW has been very communicative this whole year with their updates including all the vital information, at the beginning of the year there was multiple updates with the P&P information clearly laid out, Late April update acknowledged there was problems with shipping, Mays update was a FAQ about shipping,missing/damaged items which included the order of who is getting what first...
"Question: Is there any precise priority/order in what parcel goes out first?
Answer: We prioritize backers who have not yet received their rewards although they have paid for shipping. That said we must also deal with any missing items from pledges already received by backers, plus process pledges from people who have missed both deadlines and have only recently met their P&P quote. People who have not met their shipping quote don't go last, they simply will not be serviced - we find it very rational!"
"Question: When do you expect to ship the last parcels?
Answer: .....mail everything late June...."
Junes update the last we had talks about shipping...
"Timetable: We are on perfect track. Everything is packed and we are merely missing like 5-10 parcels to confirm payment of P&P and wrap KS-2 up completely...
...Finally, we are prioritizng backers who still haven't received their pledges yet and last parcels to be sent out are going to be those for missing items and/or any replacements requested."
Everyone has been aware of whats going on for the last 3 months, if you have been waiting for SW to send out an update asking for people to message in with their missing items like i said you need to learn to read!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote: @Azazelx
In this case there has been a miscommunication. I apologize for that, allow me to clarify; we prioritized sending out parcels of full pledges first, afterwhich we send out missing items/replacements. We found it fair that people not having received anything yet should be favoured in contrary to others that have received their pledges yet some have had an issue or two. If something's missing/broken in your pledge, kindly send us a message on Kickstarter and someone will get back to you sorting it out.
Everyone will be serviced respectively :-)
We are going to be putting out all the information necessary on July's update, should someone have anything not dealt with we will answer him/her, we will assume all responsability that all backers get what they asked for.
We only use the KS comment section to answer direct questions we are asked about. We don't pretend people follow the comment section, it is just a very swift and direct way to interact with our backers. We try making the most of it but monthly detailed updates will still be the norm.
While im bitching at Azazelx il leave this here...
There is no need to apologise, as all the vital information has been clearly laid out in the monthly updates, its not mine or your fault some people can not read or follow instructions correctly, which brings me on to my bitch at you, IMO i dont think us backers who had missing/damaged items or a returned parcel should have been pushed to the back of the queue as we had done everything correctly when asked, those that couldnt be bothered to pay postage on time even after multiple messages from you you shouldnt have been made a priorty!
I mean, in some respects I got a bargain, right? Postage and $2.58 for two decent bears and four miscasts? With an hour's work with a razor saw, superglue, and putty I can probably get two more half-decent bears by cannibalising the four miscasts.
I am kind of more short of time than money these days though, and after three months' delay above and beyond the KS delays, plus about ten emails and messages from me trying to get the issue resolved, I have to say that I won't be dealing with SW in future. The return on investment, in terms of the time involved, isn't worth it.
I mean, in some respects I got a bargain, right? Postage and $2.58 for two decent bears and four miscasts? With an hour's work with a razor saw, superglue, and putty I can probably get two more half-decent bears by cannibalising the four miscasts.
I am kind of more short of time than money these days though, and after three months' delay above and beyond the KS delays, plus about ten emails and messages from me trying to get the issue resolved, I have to say that I won't be dealing with SW in future. The return on investment, in terms of the time involved, isn't worth it.
I'm sorry you feel that way Ian, we did try our best to be of service, we naturally won't be able to please everyone. Ten emails and messages to which you'll admit we answered fairly rapidly and politely :-) You understand it's not to our interest either to go back and forth, it costs us time and effort, we are happy this issue has been met and concluded. Fortunately out of 500+ backers only 2(!) requested a refund, so we are very happy with this percentage (the other one was a missing Dragon rider to Australia IIRC, the backer asked for terms of speed if he/she could get a refund, I don't remember the gender, we did so the same day).
PS. A last small note to avoid confusion though, as I wrote to you on the email this morning, we *did* refund 60$ as agreed, I don't know why your end shows less. We appreciate your past support all the same -no sarcasm.
It's likely the Paypal fee (which would make it $57-something) and maybe a bit of currency conversion too (unless they've raised the fee, which used to be 2.9% + $0.30 per transaction).
Shieldwolf, I didn't request a refund. I requested good quality minis. You admitted you couldn't provide that, so you gave me a (partial) refund instead.
And it really shouldn't have taken 10 emails, and 10 responses from you, and 3 months. When I received a broken resin component from Mierce, I had the replacement within a couple of days, after one email (admittedly they are geographically closer, but not by three months).
I'm willing to leave it there. I just won't be buying in future.
@RiTides
I guess something like that is what has happened, it would have been *idiotic* for us to even discuss a $2 refund difference in an 80K+ project. Or any professional for that matter.
@Ian Sturrock
As I said, I'm sorry you feel that way. Apart from the fact we did send a full refund and not a partial one, the matter is closed.
I wouldn't use the word "idiotic" - I was just explaining why the amount received was different than the amount sent. There are situations where I add this percentage to the total sent (I use 3%), and there are other ways of paying the fee through Paypal.
In the case of an actual refund of a direct payment, I think the fee is also returned, but obviously that wasn't the case here. Anyway, was just posting it as an FYI...
I appreciate the input @RiTides, the "idiotic" was meant for us as a bad bussiness practice, certainly not @Ian!
This wasn't a direct payment however, the money was received by KS and we refunded via PayPal; we received the amount is USD, we paid it back in USD. As we don't doubt what everyone here is saying, we would appreciate it if the parties involved extended us the courtesy not to doubt us either.
Anyway, I have emailed the backer personally, anything else need be clarified I'm sure at this point we can do it via emails.
Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote: I appreciate the input @RiTides, the "idiotic" was meant for us as a bad bussiness practice, certainly not @Ian!
This wasn't a direct payment however, the money was received by KS and we refunded via PayPal; we received the amount is USD, we paid it back in USD. As we don't doubt what everyone here is saying, we would appreciate it if the parties involved extended us the courtesy not to doubt us either.
Anyway, I have emailed the backer personally, anything else need be clarified I'm sure at this point we can do it via emails.
Unless Ian lives in the US, it would be PP fees and the conversion rate, our exchange rates have moved a fair bit since the project closed, ie if i was to pay my $200 pledge now it would cost me a lot more and the opposite if i was to get my $200 refunded today i would be worse off.
Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote: @RiTides
I guess something like that is what has happened, it would have been *idiotic* for us to even discuss a $2 refund difference in an 80K+ project. Or any professional for that matter.
@Ian Sturrock
As I said, I'm sorry you feel that way. Apart from the fact we did send a full refund and not a partial one, the matter is closed.
As someone who has gotten NOTICE letters from companies over bills for $2 or less this is amusing to me. I just found myself sending a bank transfer of $1.02 to my phone company as a matter of fact after they did a stealthy price hike this last cycle.
Apparently the word "professional" has a very different meaning in Greece.
@MLaw
That's not the point and I assure you "professional" has the same meaning everywhere. The backer has every right to claim a missing amount, I never contradicted that, I did contradict the fact that the full amount was indeed sent however and there's no error from our part. People reading this might get the wrong impression and that's highly unfair to us.
Heck, the very amount of time it's costing me to interact -trying to prove something I am obviously no longer in a position to prove- is costing me well over the $2 this conversation is all about!
Why on earth would someone believe that we sent 58$ and not 60$ when we are about to commit thousands of dollars in our next project is beyond me. In all honesty this is getting nowhere, I am pretty sure at this point that even @Ian in hindsight has taken into consideration that a fee not depending on us was probably put into activation. He wrote earlier that he is willing to end it here and so are we, so I don't see why this is still an issue.
PS. There are backers that are also present here at Dakka that can testify that in various occassions in the past we have told them "keep it, no problem, consider it a gift from us" so that should speak for itself on how we operate. We are not perfect but we certainly don't go about to wrong anyone, not out of intent at least. This is still a group of people trying to do their best, not some anonymous phone company who would cut your connection over $1.02, let alone go on the open interacting with you on a public forum. Just saying.
I am looking forward to the new campaign. I am curious to see how the pledges will look considering there is Sci-fi and fantasy.
I am only really interested in the fantasy but may pick up a box or 2 of the scifi stuff.
I hope that the Long anticipated Warmaidens are still the first on the agenda.
I wonder if They will split out a Fantasy set of pledges and a scifi set of pledges. Will there be alternating unlocks? So one set of stretch goals only apply to Sci fi... and then only fantasy. And will stretch goals only apply to certain pledges? Like this sci fi hero is free but only to those who back the sci fi pledges?
The Grand Yeti looks cool. (what has been shown). I hope I am able to get it.
I am concerned with a couple of big name KS that are going to overlap time-wise. I hope Shieldwolf allows a low pledge (like $1) that gives access to the pledge manager like some other KS do.
@Smokestack
Well, here is some generic info, we will be more precise when we get closer, we have something else in our hands ATM which is burdening heavily our schedule, we will share/speak about it on July's update.
KS-3:
-We are using the same structure as before, therefore $1 Add-ons, $50 Raiding Party, 100$ Starter Army, $150 Garrison Army and $200 Campaign Army.
-The $1 doesn't allow freebies, Raiding Parties eligible to silver medallion freebies, starter armies and higher eligible to golden medallion freebies.
-The difference between silver and golden medallions will be more noticeable compared to KS-2.
-Upgrading during the "Grace Period" will be allowed.
-No early birds but first 24-hour backers get freebie miniature(s) we sculpted for this purpose.
-Sci-fi pledges will be completely separate from Fantasy, i.e. a Starter army for fantasy will include fantasy troops + monsters, whereas for sci-fi it's going to be sci-fi troops+ vehicles. A number of different characters will also drop to complete each setting.
-Duration will be augmented from 2 weeks to 3 instead, giving more time to interact.
-Sprues will be completely separate for each genre (unlike our initial planning to mix the two in a single sprue).
As a side note some big KS names are indeed dropping to overlap our timeframe. This has us worried, no secret there. We will see how to deal with it.
Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote: @Smokestack
Well, here is some generic info, we will be more precise when we get closer, we have something else in our hands ATM which is burdening heavily our schedule, we will share/speak about it on July's update.
KS-3:
-We are using the same structure as before, therefore $1 Add-ons, $50 Raiding Party, 100$ Starter Army, $150 Garrison Army and $200 Campaign Army.
-The $1 doesn't allow freebies, Raiding Parties eligible to silver medallion freebies, starter armies and higher eligible to golden medallion freebies.
-The difference between silver and golden medallions will be more noticeable compared to KS-2.
-Upgrading during the "Grace Period" will be allowed.
-No early birds but first 24-hour backers get freebie miniature(s) we sculpted for this purpose.
-Sci-fi pledges will be completely separate from Fantasy, i.e. a Starter army for fantasy will include fantasy troops + monsters, whereas for sci-fi it's going to be sci-fi troops+ vehicles. A number of different characters will also drop to complete each setting.
-Duration will be augmented from 2 weeks to 3 instead, giving more time to interact.
-Sprues will be completely separate for each genre (unlike our initial planning to mix the two in a single sprue).
As a side note some big KS names are indeed dropping to overlap our timeframe. This has us worried, no secret there. We will see how to deal with it.
Easy way to skip the overlap is to launch sooner or later? Sooner will net you more money since you wouldn't have competition.
Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote: [...]
As a side note some big KS names are indeed dropping to overlap our timeframe. This has us worried, no secret there. We will see how to deal with it.[...]
Easy way to skip the overlap is to launch sooner or later? Sooner will net you more money since you wouldn't have competition.
Yeah, that totally makes sense and it's where we're oriented at the moment. While we could launch theoratically today should we wish it, besides not having enough time to build up the hype necessary you'll all understand in this month's update the difficulty in launching quickly as we are in the middle of something that's eating up a lot of our time and energy...
Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote: All missing items have been mailed -a very very few remaining are ready and packed, to be shipped by Tuesday.
Everything will be on July's update, we are very busy doing something else at the moment (I am not referring to KS-3) and we'll talk about that also.
Ian was offered a full refund as this is the second time he receives flawed items. Miscasts we can comprehend that it's only human to miss something during QC (thankfully that's something we rarely hear of), damaged however in the same area begins to point heavily in the local post office doings and not on our side. Our customer service will see the person(s) involved in such misfortunate happenings served. As always.
Edit: Luly's update, not June's! :-)
At no point did I expect missing items to be sent out before other people's shipments. However:
I don't think you've sent mine out unless you automatically sent items to some backers.
This is because I (perhaps foolishly) waited patiently for you to specifically address missing items in the updates.
I asked in the comments section at one point (months after my core order arrived) and got brushed off and told that it'd be dealt with "later".
I've only come back to it now because there was finally an update, that states that the KS is completed.
I'm missing the following:
Shieldmaiden Hero with Great Maul x1
Army Banner Bearer x1
Shieldlord A x1
There might have been more. Those are for sure. I can't be bothered trying to find a txt file list however many months later that we're at.
Mate you and others need to learn to read, SW has been very communicative this whole year with their updates including all the vital information, at the beginning of the year there was multiple updates with the P&P information clearly laid out, Late April update acknowledged there was problems with shipping, Mays update was a FAQ about shipping,missing/damaged items which included the order of who is getting what first...
"Question: Is there any precise priority/order in what parcel goes out first?
Answer: We prioritize backers who have not yet received their rewards although they have paid for shipping. That said we must also deal with any missing items from pledges already received by backers, plus process pledges from people who have missed both deadlines and have only recently met their P&P quote. People who have not met their shipping quote don't go last, they simply will not be serviced - we find it very rational!"
"Timetable: We are on perfect track. Everything is packed and we are merely missing like 5-10 parcels to confirm payment of P&P and wrap KS-2 up completely...
...Finally, we are prioritizng backers who still haven't received their pledges yet and last parcels to be sent out are going to be those for missing items and/or any replacements requested."
Everyone has been aware of whats going on for the last 3 months, if you have been waiting for SW to send out an update asking for people to message in with their missing items like i said you need to learn to read!
Listen, "Mate". Shieldwolf's communication has been sub-par for some time. There have been numerous examples of comms failures posted throughout this thread (as in people posting examples - SW's posts in this thread haven't had the same issue).
Simply put, I was waiting for an update saying "missing items email us here". When I posted in the comments, I wasn't asked to email them, I was told to wait. May's update only mentions missing items in an offhand way, with the word not part of any headline, and in fact only used once, as quoted above. Or to put it another way, the word "missing" appears once, buried halfway through an 857-word update, and only in relation to other things. It's hardly "this is how and when we're going to sort out missing items". If you think that's clear, then good luck to you. Of course, you live in their comment section (which is fine, no judgement there on how you spend your time), but it does mean that your perspective is somewhat skewed on how Shieldwolf communicates to their overall backers.
So yeah, if you could point me to the update asking for people to message in with their missing items, that would be great. Not barely mentioned via one word about it in an offhand reference offhand buried in a much larger update. If you want to be a smartarse, I'm calling you on it. Find me an update where they clearly ask us to contact them regarding replacements, and I'll quite happily apologise here to both yourself and Shieldwolf on that point.
But yeah, maybe it is my own fault - for being patient about my missing items for months.
@Azazelx
Kindly send us a message on Kickstarter with the list of items that weren't delivered to you and we'll try shipping them next week -also because we're going on holiday after August 10th so only one person is going to remain behind to deal with ordinary traffic.
Our communication needs improvement but -aside the HQ translocation as you've seen on the update and which burdened a lot on our schedule- it has been pretty constant I think, we promised one fully detailed update every month after the KS project was over and we didn't fail at any time.
That said, we can certainly do even better in the future as we bring this experience with us. :-)
highlord tamburlaine wrote: You guys realize that people are going to want a pledge with BOTH armies, right?
We sure do! The most popular pledge of the Shieldmaiden KS ended up being (by far) the "Shieldmaidens vs Orcs" starter set. It offered a great variety with more than 100 miniatures for $100 (helping people split up the pledge we presume, perfectly fine with us!).
The same thing is going to happen in this project also, with the difference that initially it's not going to be "versus" but a "combined" Krumvaal Northern Alliance boxed set. Only when we reach the Sisters of Talliareum/Sisters of Faith will there be a "versus" boxed set option, both in the fantasy and the sci-fi section.
Pledges of boxed sets that will combine both sci-fi and fantasy items however are not going to happen, it's going to end up being too much a logistics nightmare and we are going to avoid it in order to ensure a smooth campaign.
I think that the image above ^ looks really nice. As a most personal preference, I am not too fond of the breast-armour, but when it comes to design, I do recognize that it sometimes can be hard to create a generic model that will represent a female that is easily to discern. But apart from that, the image looks really cool. The weapon looks like it's gonna be a beast.
@BobtheInquisitor
Yes they will, but we are more concerned in making the weaponry swappable as well. :-)
As a side note, those who don't follow us on Kickstarter, the new Shieldwolf HQ (logically fully operational this September, after which doors will be open to the public) :-)
We appreciate your support. Next teaser, the nordic armies (both sci-fi and fantasy), the ones you voted to pitch the KS-3 with! :-D
Illumini wrote: Will the northern alliance light infantry come back in stock in your store?
Yes and no. The company has decided to retool all troop kits in plastic so 'yes', it's in our intentions to bring it back resculpted (maintaining the "Pathfinder" inspiration) and retooled with more options on the sprues, same number of miniatures per kit (20) and at the same price. 'No' however, it's not going to be available again as you see it. Same goes for the Undead regiments which however have stock left and will become unavailable only when completely sold out. These too to be resculpted (character and vision might change) and retooled for plastic.
Side note; the Undead race is not a priority at this point though, we prioritize and are heavily working on mainly Krumvaal, Talliareum and Araves to establish our three leading races for our game, after which we will move on to other endeavours (i.e. other races of our world and if our sci-fi adventure goes well, more stuff for them too).
You've caught my interest with that melding of two armies although I'm a bit worried given the sudden retraction of backed weapon options the last time around. Also, for the melta armed wolf sister, whare are the elbow joints simple cubes? Could you make them more faceted and angular like in the art instead?
@Warboss
We will be adding more weapons in all these new sprues, exactly because we'd like to avoid past issues of miscommunication. As for the elbow joints, we are open to feedback just like on the previous campaign :-)
@Kid Kyoto
Yes.
Yes.
Wood. Well, why not, that would have been the cheapest :-p
(they are all resin cast by us, but should the project go ballistic we have done all the legwork and have calculated pricing for HIPS; in which case we will be giving the option for every resin vehicle to get 3 in plastic instead. We would be ecstatic should we do this well, but we prefer aiming first at our main target, i.e. funding at least the first 2 kits)
@Mr. Morden @schoon
Thank you :-)
@Sining
Very reasonably priced, you'll see for yourselves :-)
@hobojebus
(noted!)
@Mymearan @Capamaru
The side doors and front panel are removable pieces so to allow adding side or front weaponry.
Hmmmm love the religious tanks. I could definitely get behind owning a few.
What are your plans for casting them in resin? One solid brick, multiple pieces to heat form back into shape before building, or a hollow shell with just a bottom piece and some fiddly bits to add?
@Wehrkind
A solid brick would make not only the casting process more complex (the slightest mishap would cause it to flank QC and get the entire thing tossed away) but also double (or even triple? I don't know) the amount of resin required. We've been there with the Mammoth and designed these differently, also because this allows for various parts to be concealed once assembled (unlike our big fury beast).
The tanks are going to be hollow and the resin parts are all going to be thick/solid enough to withstand abuse (accidents do happen). Same part design will be followed should we manage to hit the plastic tooling funding target, with the difference that it's going to be in many more parts (since HIPS doesn't allow as much flexibility as our silicone moulds).
There was also mention made already as to the fact that the scifi girls only are 10 to a box, as opposed to the 20 you get with the fantasy girls, and stretch goals should help double that up.
If that's the case the 100 dollar army is a pretty good deal if that comes to fruition.
Curious what these further future armies we can unlock will be like they talk about in the video.
Something about the proportions of these new maidens don't really sit well with me, but hopefully the campaign can do well without my meager contribution.
They were great on delivering the Warmaiden Kickstarter they ran. Though I need to now look at them as I'm tempted to grab some of the wolf wardens to augment them with heavier troops.
@NewTruthNeoxamin
If I understood you correctly, that's because we tend to reward larger pledges compared to smaller ones, although we try offering a very good value from the base pledge.
Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote: @NewTruthNeoxamin
If I understood you correctly, that's because we tend to reward larger pledges compared to smaller ones, although we try offering a very good value from the base pledge.
Well, I'm in for a raiding party level, but may have to downgrade it depending on how things play out. Last KS I pledged in, the CC sent a fraud alert text to me and my wife asking if I'd really spent arguably too much money on Kickstarter. My wife was most interested in my answer...
Thank you all for your support, it means a lot to us! :-)
@ncshooter426
We learned from our mistake and we are very careful in stating what will and what will not be on the sprues this time, best we surprise pleasantly than overpromise and dissapoint. We have received the feedback from the Shieldmaidens though and we'll be adding more weaponry options this time.
@ncshooter426
We learned from our mistake and we are very careful in stating what will and what will not be on the sprues this time, best we surprise pleasantly than overpromise and dissapoint. We have received the feedback from the Shieldmaidens though and we'll be adding more weaponry options this time.
Obviously you don't need to do this, but a really nice option would be sprues with enough *coughcough* "special" weapons to turn the Sci-Fi women into any kind of unit a game might call for. ;-)
Am I missing something or the 100$ pack for the SF sisters is a better deal compared to the higher tiers ?
100$ : 2 tanks & 3 squads
200$ : 4 tanks but "only" 5 squads
Am I missing something or the 100$ pack for the SF sisters is a better deal compared to the higher tiers ?
100$ : 2 tanks & 3 squads
200$ : 4 tanks but "only" 5 squads
First, gratitude for the support.
Second, the tanks are not exactly the same, they have additions that will later be available also as add-ons. It's not exactly a "perfect" exchange but production wise it's similar so for us it's the same, backers are free to pick what fits them most :-)
So this has got over half way to its goal in under a day, pretty good going!
Shieldwolf, are the next two factions going to be added to the campaign immediately on funding? I don't have any real interest in the wolves (other than the tanks) but would definitely get aload of sisters. Also are you going to do mixed sci-fi/fantasy pledges? as I would be after both and getting 2 raiding parties doesn't give as good value as one $100 pledge.
Also porting over the size chart of the tanks for those interested;
thanks for the support and for posting the size chart :-)
While I'd love to answer you "yes", I'm afraid there will be no mixed pledges for sci-fi and fantasy, our minds race ahead to what happens after the project has finished and here too we have a big number of extras, so we have decided to keep the 2 versions separately in order to facilitate fulfillment. While a backer can definitely back for both anyway, we are thinking that number is going to be fairly small and backers will mostly back for either only science fiction or only fantasy; meaning it will make our lives easier when we pack the rewards.
At least that's how we see and believe things are going to work like.
As for the stretch goal order it's very early yet (still day one out of 3 weeks), we have 3 pre-designed courses with the math done to each of them, all depending on how the funding goes. I can't tell you more than that, other than we are still very much on "course/scenario" A (that's not how we have them in our folders, we simply have A,B,C but I just gave it a name now to explain myself better!)
When the campaign is over, I'd really love to see a breakdown in terms of percentage between 'pure gamers' who only buy one faction and 'collectors' who buy a bit of each faction.
Most of the people I hobby with are the collector type who like a variety of models rather than an army of one type--I wonder how typical that is.
@BobtheInquisitor
Sure, we can share that. Perhaps if we have time even make a graphic to make it a bit more interesting too.
What we would be more interested to see is the ratio between the sci-fi and fantasy crowd and how our research corresponds to that of the actual pledges.
Either way, we will have to wait for the pledge manager to come out first in order to see the actual numbers, but as I said sure, I don't see why we can't share this information :-)
Rather bizarre that there was no "get ready" message to backers of the several previous Shieldwolf Kickstarters... I put $50 down for it for the time being but may not have even known that this was live in the first 24 hours if ingtaer hadn't posted here while I happened to be browsing.
Hopefully it gets funded and they add some proper "all-plastic troops" type pledges.
Setting the boxes at 20 sci-fi troops vs 10 fantasy ones is a real head-scratcher as well. Even if it might get bumped as a stretch goal. Seems to be an early-2000's GW-ish mentality at work there in "valuing" the sci-fi models at 2x the fantasy, presumably because reasons. I certainly don't value KSing 20 femme spacewolves at $50 plus $15 postage + 12-18 months wait compared to (let's be honest) GW models I can buy and have delivered right now for around the same. Say, a Start Collecting box of my choice. But the campaign has 3 weeks to raise that value from the insult (compared to the fantasy models in the same KS - apples to apples) that it currently is.
I kinda get the feeling that the split focus (4 ways) between sci-fi and fantasy Wolves and not-SoB might be a big issue for the campaign as people only interested in 1 or 2 types find the stretch goals pointless for their interest. Didn't the same thing happen with the previous SM/Orcs campaign that got cancelled?
At least this one will probably (hopefully) fund within a day or so. 2/3 of the way there without an email to previous backers so those who know about it so far will be the SW faithful who spend time on the KS comments/facebook. The last successful campaign (Shieldmaidens) had 565 backers, and this one has 193 so far with no promotion, so this one funding
should be a safe bet, and hopefully hitting a few stretch goals in turn.
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ncshooter426 wrote: In for 200$.
Did they ever get the spears worked out for the maidens?
It was called "Buy some Fireforge spears and convert the models". I managed the first of those so far.
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Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote: @NewTruthNeoxamin
If I understood you correctly, that's because we tend to reward larger pledges compared to smaller ones, although we try offering a very good value from the base pledge.
You may want to consider adding in a larger "all-plastic" pledge (or pledges) for people who don't want any of the resin on offer offer. I'd probably pick up any/all of the HIPS infantry on offer (assuming the sci-fi value eventually matches the fantasy), but I'm not interested in the Chibi tanks or resin monsters. I know there are quite a lot of others out there who only want to deal with purchasing plastic (HIPS specifically), and given that plastic tooling is the primary reason you're doing this...
Setting the boxes at 20 sci-fi troops vs 10 fantasy ones is a real head-scratcher as well. Even if it might get bumped as a stretch goal. Seems to be an early-2000's GW-ish mentality at work there in "valuing" the sci-fi models at 2x the fantasy, presumably because reasons. I certainly don't value KSing 20 femme spacewolves at $50 plus $15 postage + 12-18 months wait compared to (let's be honest) GW models I can buy and have delivered right now for around the same. Say, a Start Collecting box of my choice. But the campaign has 3 weeks to raise that value from the insult (compared to the fantasy models in the same KS - apples to apples) that it currently is.
They stated in the comments that the reason is the fantasy version is what the funding is for. They are funding the scifi version themselves, So the Goal isn't really for the scifi, but for the fantasy alone. If the fantasy version is funded they will finance the scifi entirely themselves. As such they need have to subsidize the amount a bit. But as you quoted if the money raised is high enough they can justify putting more in each box.
Oooh, an all plastic pledge would be seriously tempting!
I was pretty happy with the larger resin stuff I've gotten from Shieldwolf. I'm hoping that the new heroes at least are going to be more in scale with these new offerings though!
They stated in the comments that the reason is the fantasy version is what the funding is for. They are funding the scifi version themselves, So the Goal isn't really for the scifi, but for the fantasy alone. If the fantasy version is funded they will finance the scifi entirely themselves. As such they need have to subsidize the amount a bit. But as you quoted if the money raised is high enough they can justify putting more in each box.
Not to labour the point, but as a backer of items that this KS appears to be offering, and much more interested in the Sci-fi offerings, I don't care or need to care about that. Now at this point I'm very hopeful at the campaign funding (less than $4k to go at this point) but the current hotness at this point in 2017 is very much 40k, and models that can be used as proxies for that system are what can easily make or break this campaign in terms of hitting a lot of goals. Offering sub-par value on the sci-fi compared to what on the surface is the other half (quarter, eventually) of the campaign won't be helping it to fund any faster or further.
Seriously, GW can't keep their gak in stock right now. 40k is hotter than it has been in many years. That's the rocket you want to hitch your models to right now in order to get more betterer funded faster, not 9th Age or even AoS.
Seeing that GW still doesn't appear to have plastic Sisters of Battle on the (visible) cards right now also means that the more popular sci-fi kit would have been the Sisters/Nuns/Whatever - and as such would have helped the campaign to fund faster. Wolf sisters are certainly the more unique choice and can proxy in as Sisters of Silence, but the choice there to go with the Nuns over the Wolves would have had to be a last-minute one, soley based on the (lack of) SoB announcements by GW as late as possible.
In what I guess is retrospect (very early retrospect) it would have been a good idea in advance of the campaign to pay for some high-quality 3-d prints of any completed components and then resin cast a few (few dozen) to have some prototypes to show in the KS, and even better - out to a few independent reviewers/hobbyists who could then do what Shieldwolf can not - have them assembled and painted up alongside GW and others' plastic models and posted on social media/forums/blogs/etc. Might not be possible depending on the status of the digital sculpts, but it would certainly be a great way to showcase the product on offer during the campaign.
It was good to see the call go out to the previous campaign backers and also the adjustment to the bear cubs. Broadens the base of potential backers immediately and also prevents missing out on bear cubs from being a small annoyance to people who find out about the campaign slightly later while still giving it a sense of urgency (better back now if you want dem cute cubs - only 38 left!!!!)
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Oooh, an all plastic pledge would be seriously tempting!
I was pretty happy with the larger resin stuff I've gotten from Shieldwolf. I'm hoping that the new heroes at least are going to be more in scale with these new offerings though!
Shieldwolfs resin is good quality - no question there in my experience at least - I know some others had issues with them described earlier in this thread. I just don't go for the aesthetics of the big wolf-monster or the tanks (they look a little too chibi for me beyond the Rhino chassis) - but we're really here for the HIPs! I don't mind a couple of stretch goal characters or whatever, bit I don't want to be paying for tanks or monsters that don't especially appeal to me when I'd happily go for something with more plastic.
To be fair, the Wolf Wardens Starter Army bundle is quite decent with 80 plastic infantry included.
I just think that the same could (should) be done with the sci-fi Sisters of Wolves - 80 plastics, and maybe 10 wolves instead of 5 wolves and 3 yeti. Space Wolves have wolf packs, after all. I can see that appealing big time to 40k players.
If plastic tanks get funded, then a new pledge level bundle can be created then.
Shieldwolf; it was asked in the comments that someone wished to exchange yetis for plastics and your answer was that's fine, providing its of the same value. So why not allow a mixed pledge? The logistics of that is far easier than exchanging out parts.
ingtaer wrote: They have been hinted at in this campaign.
Shieldwolf; it was asked in the comments that someone wished to exchange yetis for plastics and your answer was that's fine, providing its of the same value. So why not allow a mixed pledge? The logistics of that is far easier than exchanging out parts.
Fair enough. What pledge do you have in mind? (we have already promised to upload a Raiding Party with 1 box of each fantasy type instead of 2 of the same but you're referring to something else, yes?)
To be quiet frank I don't know for sure,
I was perusing your starter armies and was thinking that there should be a pledge that allows both sci-fi and fantasy (two boxes of each and a tank and yetis maybe?), Personally I would love to see that when the next sets come out, if there was an option to get both the sci-fi and fantasy versions of Sisters I would be increasing my pledge straight away. However I would still much prefer to see Forest Goblins...
ingtaer wrote: They have been hinted at in this campaign.
Shieldwolf; it was asked in the comments that someone wished to exchange yetis for plastics and your answer was that's fine, providing its of the same value. So why not allow a mixed pledge? The logistics of that is far easier than exchanging out parts.
What's "the same value" though?
Once (if) the sci-fi and fantasy nuns are unlocked I could see people wanting a 4-way plastic pledge for all the new HIPS kits. Kind of a no-brainer there.
Are those WIP? Definately a lot of potential there, though some components look odd or disproportionate. Those sci-fi model "hands" aren't final, are they?
Their hands seem to be inside those blocky arm guard things. It through me off a bit as well, considering the resin add on stretch goal lady has actual hands gripping the guns.
I hope more is done with their elbow guards too. They seem very flat, for lack of a better word.
Happy to see this funded! Can't wait to see where we end up!
ingtaer wrote: They have been hinted at in this campaign.
Shieldwolf; it was asked in the comments that someone wished to exchange yetis for plastics and your answer was that's fine, providing its of the same value. So why not allow a mixed pledge? The logistics of that is far easier than exchanging out parts.
What's "the same value" though?
Whatever arbitrary number Shieldwolf assign? Same as normal. All the prices are listed under the add on list.
Congratulations on funding SW and still with two baby bears left (at the time of writing).
@Azazelx
Everything is Work in Progress, this is the most complex kit we've ever made and there will be plenty of things to try out to see what fits/works best for the final product. Arm guards and elbows have been noted.
@Highlord @ingtaer
Thank you!
@Bob
What's a "Royal Sampler" pledge? Either way the answer to losing the baby bears is a definitive "NO", as long as your backer number is 1-300, you get these as promised.
A pledge with all the different kinds of plastic units, sci fi and fantasy. Some of us would prefer to have a squad from each faction rather than a horde of one.
Any chance for helmeted heads? I would love to see some fully enclosed helmets, especially for the sisters of faith.
@BobtheInquisitor
Ah, I didn't know the term.
1. Yes, we are working on some more as we speak.
2. Yes (mainly due to feedback from the Shieldmaiden Campaign requesting that).
Shieldwolf Update #5 wrote:
...
Also, compared to our previous project freebies get rewarded only once, despite a backer having chosen e.g. two fantasy starter armies. He/she will receive only one Shieldmaiden Casualty_B model and any other goals we unlock.
...
Because they want to do what they can to discourage people from doubling their pledges or combining them to save in shipping. Apparently.
No.
They want to make some money. Bad boys they are.
Miniature kickstarters are almost the only kickstarters where people EXPECT> and DEMAND freebies here and there and everywhere.
Others don't. Shieldwolf is smart to limit the amount of bleed.
There have been more than a few Kickstarters where getting 2x or 3x the stretch goal extras has caused me to double or triple my pledge. Saving on postage has been enough motivation to have friends jump on board with my pledges more than a few times.
Replying directly to yourself and not SW (since you made the statement that I'm replying to):
If a KS creator feels that they're not making any (or enough) money on the stretch goal extras, then they shouldn't offer them in the first place. If it's such a dramatic "bleed" of money then they could always pay for the tooling and production themselves and not ask backers to shoulder the risk and financial costs a year or more upfront.
While no-one should expect anywhere near CMON-levels of freebies (don't expect more than a couple of minis and maybe an extra sprue), CMON has used this strategy to amazing effect in their KS campaigns and it has certainly gotten them a gakload more cash each time they run a campaign. Like any KS creator that wants to remain solvent, the secret is to not give away more than you can safely and comfortably afford not to while maximising the perception of the quality of their offering to backers and potential backers.
To (hopefully) clarify. Let's put it this way:
If a campaign's numbers have been crunched efficiently in advance of it going live, and say, what freebies that they're able to allocate to a $50 or $100 or 200 worth of pledge has been worked out properly, then the "costs" of the freebies up to their projected final of $50k or $100k or whatever should have been worked out, so that the creator is in no danger of overextending themselves or losing money regardless of how much the campaign blows up and/or many backers they have going for $50 or $100 or $200. Can we agree on that?
Because if you're losing money on a pledge level. Any pledge level, then there's a fundamental and serious flaw in the organisation of the campaign. Can we also agree on that?
So...
If they're making enough money (despite freebies) from me pledging $200, then they should still be making enough from me pledging $400 and getting two sets of freebies.
If they're making enough from me pledging $200 with freebies and being posted to me, and they're also making enough from you pledging $200 with freebies and being posted to you that's still $400. and two sets of freebies.
If they're making enough from me pledging $200 with freebies and being posted to me, and they're also making enough from you pledging $200 with freebies and being posted to you then how are they not making enough from you and I combining our orders into one pledge and sending both of those (and freebies for both of us) to the same address because you and I want to save on international shipping?
There are many, many Whales amongst kickstarter backers. Campaign creators should do what they can to entice them. If attracting a double-or-triple backers "costs" them no more than attracting 2 or 3 backers, then why not have both?
Now, SW indicated that it's a logistical issue that caused them issues in their previous KS, but IMO forewarned is forearmed and IMO it's something that can be organised pretty easily with that in mind.
"This guy gets 2x sci-fi gold and 1x fantasy silver add-on packs" isn't so different to "This guy gets 1x sci-fi gold and 1x fantasy silver add-on packs", after all...
adamsouza wrote: I'm atill trying to figure out why the fantasy maidens have twice as many models per box as the scifi maidens per box.
I saw 20 models per box for the Fantasy Maidens, and then felt crushing dissapointment when the scifi version was only 10 models per box.
because reasons.
Apparently.
If I were cynical I'd say it was a terribly ill-conceived plan so they could trumpet this:
However, I don't attribute this to an evil scheme or malice. I think it's simply not seeing the obvious (as with the freebies thing I'm discussing with Ronin above). Can't see the forest for the trees. Too close to the project. Seeing the project from the perspective of a merchant rather than a consumer, Not asking the right people (ie, ME) for constructive feedback beforehand. and instead probably only asking the "fan-friends" and superfans that tend to inhabit the comments long after campaigns conclude - communities which after time tend to be too insular and filled with too many "yes-men" rather than critical thinkers and people with a strong ability to utilise "black-hat" thinking. Again, like myself.
But you know, how many people had your reaction and simply moved on entirely, never to check the campaign again? There's no way to know.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Probably worth pointing out that if this were most other companies I wouldn't be posting any of this. I'd have just moved on with little interest. I'm posting this mostly because I want to see SW do well. I don't actually need any more models, nor are a few freebies going to make or break my life.
The reason given was that Shieldwolf were funding the Sci-Fi sets themselves and they needed to claw back some margin...
Azazelx, I was surprised that the preview page for this kickstarter where companies ask for and get feedback was open for such a short time (24hrs?) and some issues that have been bought to light could have been sorted then. Along with this wanting to simplify logistics whilst at the same time making them more complicated (allowing chopping and changing of pledge contents on an individual basis whilst not allowing multiple freebies) is just bizarre to me. I would guess that its due to how pledges are managed?
Still, less than $1500 to go before the doubling of sprues in the Sci-Fi box stretch goal is met. Whats next?
ingtaer wrote: The reason given was that Shieldwolf were funding the Sci-Fi sets themselves and they needed to claw back some margin...
Yeah, but let's be blunt. Even if that was a "reason" it was stupid to go with it given that the sci-fi troops are doubled only $5k after the funded goal. We all know tat once molds are made a shot of a sprue costs very little, and all they did was turn off potential backers who may browse and then not return. 40k is also on fire right now, so all I can do is facepalm as I watch Shieldwolf fly in the face of very obvious logic over and over (see below).
Azazelx, I was surprised that the preview page for this kickstarter where companies ask for and get feedback was open for such a short time (24hrs?) and some issues that have been bought to light could have been sorted then.
Agreed. As I said earlier, the only reason I even knew the campaign was live was because I happened to see your post at about 10:30 while having a quick browse before bed. I had no idea that the campaign had been live for almost 24 hours at that point since they didn't think to notify backers of previous campaigns until I pointed it out to them both here and on the updates. Certainly no chance to offer pre-campaign feedback since I work and don't check their previous KS comment sections. Another facepalm.
Along with this wanting to simplify logistics whilst at the same time making them more complicated (allowing chopping and changing of pledge contents on an individual basis whilst not allowing multiple freebies) is just bizarre to me. I would guess that its due to how pledges are managed?
Again, you're completely correct that it flies in the face of all logic. There's a lot that suggests to me that they weren't (aren't) completely organised to the extent that they should be. I'd suggest that they should start a checklist of all of this stuff that's coming up as it comes up so it doesn't get forgotten before the next inevitable campaign. Otherwise there's a very strong chance that many of these issues and their solutions will be forgotten in the frenzied month of this campaign and potentially come up again in the next.
Still, less than $1500 to go before the doubling of sprues in the Sci-Fi box stretch goal is met. Whats next?
Based on this and the previous campaigns, we'll have a number of "padding" goals for things like paid-add-on resins and the odd free figure or component until they get within reach of the next HIPS kit. And if they lead with fantasy lady-paladins instead of HIPS not-Sisters of Battle you may as well just fill the rest of the thread with Picard facepalms. Then repeat if it gets that far and follow with the chibi tanks in plastic.
Yes Angelos - change those plans right now and lead the next HIPS set with the sci-fi Nun infantry in kits of 20 (not 10!) models!
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adamsouza wrote: Two of the $100 scifi set are a better deal than the $200 scifi set.
Now that you point it out, I've looked at it more carefully, and you are correct. Unless you value a $15 not-razorback turret as equal to a box of 10(20) HIPS models. This campaign really is suffering from a lack of organisation and proofreading. I know Angelos has a successful pharmacy business which is how he managed to found Shieldwolf, so he's no fool, nor is he simply a gamer with a product idea but no business sense. It feels rushed.
Yeah, but let's be blunt. Even if that was a "reason" it was stupid to go with it given that the sci-fi troops are doubled only $5k after the funded goal. We all know tat once molds are made a shot of a sprue costs very little, and all they did was turn off potential backers who may browse and then not return.
That's true, I confess and reveal (although I naturally don't have to but I don't mind) it was initially the $40KSG, I pulled it back $5K earlier to stop the concerns about getting "less" value than the fantasy counterparts. Even if I take the absolute worst case scenario that the project it will end around the $35-36,000 (which with 18 days to go I doubt, but certainly prepared for it), that is still several tenths of thousands of euros I will not have to commit in order to bring the other kits to production. I can obviously live with that and still reward more the people who placed their trust in my company.
adamsouza wrote: Two of the $100 scifi set are a better deal than the $200 scifi set.
Now that you point it out, I've looked at it more carefully, and you are correct. Unless you value a $15 not-razorback turret as equal to a box of 10(20) HIPS models. This campaign really is suffering from a lack of organisation and proofreading. I know Angelos has a successful pharmacy business which is how he managed to found Shieldwolf, so he's no fool, nor is he simply a gamer with a product idea but no business sense. It feels rushed.
This is about bussiness sense as you point out, so it is purely about numbers. The $15 turret production-wise has the same (give or take) manufacturing cost with the 20 HIPS models ($25). From my logistics point of view, the pledge will bring equal profit. So while the pledge levels are not exactly 100% super-balanced (some have a different profit margin than others but not too much, just like all miniatures retail sales, not only by Shieldwolf), the numbers have been calculated bearing in mind the worst case scenarios (i.e. if literally everyone pledged for the lowest possible profit-making pledge level). I hope this clarifies things, and rest assured I still value a lot your advice -perhaps more than you think.
Nice to hear Angelos, even nicer for you to sign your name! I have wondered in the past who was typing as you use one login. I would also like to thank you personally for being so responsive, I am sure that at times it will tough for you to read/react to comments but you always respond professionally and the fact that you have actively been changing things earns massive respect from me.
However I am confused now about how the tanks work, do they come with weapons as standard and the option to change the configuration for a price? I assumed it was the case of what you see is what you get but the add-ons and your comment have me confused.
Also I have raised my pledge in hopes of sisters, any chance of a hint as to when they drop and if the pledges will be similar to the format laid out so far?
@Ingtaer
Dimitrios is the one usually posting, I drop by to read what he (and members of this forum) wrote. At this moment he's in our HQ (he was earlier here) and I'm in my pharmacy, so I don't exactly have the same amount of time to be on this like the others on my Team.
The tanks are two types; transport and combat. Some come with options, others do not. If someone wants to use magnets or simply prefers to use one type over another that's up to him. Some options will be add-ons only (e.g. the missile launcher is not available in any of Sisters of Wolves pledges, it is however available in one of the pledges for the Sisters of Faith, you will see it named as 'the Preacher').
The pledges will be separate and in the same format, I can't tell you when they'll show up yet as I don't know how next week's funding will go, it all depends on how badly people are interested in these or not. If you've seen the Pledge Level Layout we have uploaded on flickr, when we reach the Paladins SG there will be two instead of the one you see now; one for fantasy and one for sci-fi. I think I answered everything.
Make boxes of 20 not-Sisters and plastic Sister-ish tanks for a good price and I'll be in. Said earlier I'd be in for 350ish under those circumstances. After seeing the tanks, up that to 500ish.
Please, I'm begging you to take my money.
I agree, but they did a poll (back at the end of the shield maidens Kickstarter) and the wolf wardens beat out the paladins pretty soundly. This was before any announcement for not-40K versions (so not-SOB were not an option).
adamsouza wrote: Yup. Not sisters will earn a fair amount of pre-orders.
I also imagine GW will drop actual sisters a month or two before the not sisters get released, entirely out of spite.
Highly doubtful as with Raging Heroes TGG2 notn-sisters (or non whatever lengthy GW latinesque name they wanna call it nowadays) falling two years behind schedule and GW's response was crickets despite Raging Heroes large numbers in their campaign. Couple that with the fact that GW doesn't really know how to make female models all that feminine I have extremely high doubts about it. Plus seeing as they will probably fall into the $40 for 5 or possibly $60 for 10 price bracket that GW seems to be setting as a staple I don't see the value. GW isn't really the miniature machine they used to be. They would rather focus on being a publishing company and put out a few models sprinkled about. Not like the old days where they had a real release with a codex and 4-6 units plus some heroes within the first month of the release.
GW got the market but their continued practices makes it very easy for competition to compete.
I backed this for the sci fi wolf models as I am trying to get my wife into painting some 40k and she likes space wolves so was a no brainer for me. I will be more in if they do the non-sisters especially with vehicle options as I will have to probably buy in on both ends. Definately an interesting looking KS and excited to see where it goes.
Duskland wrote: I agree, but they did a poll (back at the end of the shield maidens Kickstarter) and the wolf wardens beat out the paladins pretty soundly. This was before any announcement for not-40K versions (so not-SOB were not an option).
Actually we did 2 polls. one from our backers on a Kickstarter Update https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1273312680/war-is-coming-shieldmaidens-army-reboot/posts/1815469 and the second on our FaceBook page to allow non-backers to vote and see what they thought. Plus we exchanged messages and emails with previous supporters (i.e. clients).
Both of the polls plus feedback placed the paladins second to the nordics. Sci-fi pledges were not an option at the time as they are considered an added bonus (we are funding that after all). With 18+ days to go and our main objective struck (being funded) we only need to wait and see where this reaches. We are optimistic the backers will eventually support the project enough to help unlock at least the 2nd out of the 3 factions planned, and if it reaches high enough eventually reward with the Warmaiden boxes we missed out on last time. :-)
adamsouza wrote: Yup. Not sisters will earn a fair amount of pre-orders.
I also imagine GW will drop actual sisters a month or two before the not sisters get released, entirely out of spite.
Highly doubtful as with Raging Heroes TGG2 notn-sisters (or non whatever lengthy GW latinesque name they wanna call it nowadays) falling two years behind schedule and GW's response was crickets despite Raging Heroes large numbers in their campaign. Couple that with the fact that GW doesn't really know how to make female models all that feminine I have extremely high doubts about it. Plus seeing as they will probably fall into the $40 for 5 or possibly $60 for 10 price bracket that GW seems to be setting as a staple I don't see the value. GW isn't really the miniature machine they used to be. They would rather focus on being a publishing company and put out a few models sprinkled about. Not like the old days where they had a real release with a codex and 4-6 units plus some heroes within the first month of the release.
GW got the market but their continued practices makes it very easy for competition to compete.
I backed this for the sci fi wolf models as I am trying to get my wife into painting some 40k and she likes space wolves so was a no brainer for me. I will be more in if they do the non-sisters especially with vehicle options as I will have to probably buy in on both ends. Definately an interesting looking KS and excited to see where it goes.
Both TGG and Shieldwolf are barely worth noticing for GW in terms of number of customers and revenue... that's not a slight against those companies, just a statement on how huge GW is compared to every other player in the market aside from FFG. We're talking hundreds of times bigger. I doubt they give a second thought to them when planning plastic sisters. What they plan around is their own releases, not others'. As for feminine models, I haven't seen anyone complain about Celestine and her companions. And the latest female Stormcast hero is one of the best female face sculpts they've ever done.
Edit: I have to retract a part of that, checked out TGG2 more closely and that's 3000 customers with an average spend of $267, which is crazy impressive. I didn't know their numbers were that big! GW really should take notice of that, especially considering most of those customers would probably go out and spend at least the same amount on new GW sisters...
Shield wolf, I believe your methodology was flawed. If you tell people sci fi is off the table, you have a much smaller pool or responders, and their choices will reflect the very-different fantasy scene. For the sci fi option, it appears you are reusing the torsos and shoulder pads of the fantasy minis and adding a sprue of weapon arms, which seems very penny wise and pound foolish. The sci fi market has a huge niche to be filled for sisters of faith, whereas the sisters of wolves filled a pockmark.
Will the sci fi arm sprue be used in both sci fi sets? Do you only need to fund a sprue or half-sprue for Faith bodies? That sounds achievable to me.
Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote: Both of the polls plus feedback placed the paladins second to the nordics. Sci-fi pledges were not an option at the time
This answers the question on why the poll turned out as it did (along with who it was targeted to) - it simply wasn't a choice!
That doesn't mean this won't do quite well, of course, but if sci-fi paladins were a poll option, there would be a different result - the demand is quite large
Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote: Both of the polls plus feedback placed the paladins second to the nordics. Sci-fi pledges were not an option at the time
This answers the question on why the poll turned out as it did (along with who it was targeted to) - it simply wasn't a choice!
That doesn't mean this won't do quite well, of course, but if sci-fi paladins were a poll option, there would be a different result - the demand is quite large
Indeed. "Our polls said different" isn't really applicable when you only survey those who backed your fantasy product and didn't even have the not-SoB as an option. I would think (hope?) most people with an active interest in the hobby would realise that plastic not-SoB are the superior potential revenue stream.
Sining wrote: TGG2 offered more than just sisters though.
This is true though the Scifi sisters were I believe their most purchased army. Considering that all their armies were stand ins and they have absolutely no game I would rank their KS a huge success considering they did what GW should have done. Their miniature feminine designed has killed GW's hands down without going into the full anime of Relic Knights.
Shieldwolf is offering tanks which Raging Heroes did not which I think is huge considering if they do tackle the non-sisters aspect. I know their customers voted for nordic which is very cool don't get me wrong but once they put the non sisters up and the dust settles at hopefully a very successful campaign for them I think they will see where the actual financial support goes via their reward surveys. So hopefully we see sci fi non sisters appear soon so it gives those who are after such product time to get in on this.
The price point is perfect and GW doesn't offer any sort of competition despite their being a need for it. They would rather cash in on the publishing aspect of their game. The idea of having to make a mulitipart sisters to do sisters/ retributors, the seraphim, repentias, exorcists, immolator, and petient engines. That weighs in a 3 squads / multipack sets, two tanks, and a walker plus heroines. Should be easy enough to accomplish if they ran things the old way but why do that when they can put out 3 more codexes and have to do nothing for models aside from maybe a few heroes and a squad. Why give the people what they would want that really has never been GW's way of doing things it is about profit and they make more profit overcharging for books then in making models.
Surprised that this thread has not been updated yet. $35000 has been met and so the doubling up of sci-fi sprues is happening and new stretch goals and add ons released.
While I expect to go in more heavily for the Sisters of uh, Battle?, I'm still interested in your plastic wolf sisters and their fantasy counterparts. Will there be a nice pledge that allows for one of each plastic box type, with no extraneous resins, for an attractive pledge level?
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Will there be a nice pledge that allows for one of each plastic box type, with no extraneous resins, for an attractive pledge level?
Affirmative, you'll get a very detailed update with plenty of pictures. :-)
Unfortunately, SW's research on Wolf vs Nun took place back in January when 40k was in the doldrums, and RH was delivering their product of space nuns and all the rest. Plastic SoB were rumoured to be on the horizon thanks to the Clestine kit. At that point, Wolf Sisters in sci-fi would have been much more of a "safe" and certainly unique option.
The landscape of the market since 8th launched a couple of months ago is very different, given 40k's huge resurgence and still no plastic SoB, but SW didn't re-check or adjust/update their plans from those they had put together earlier.
With another $30k needed for plastic SoB, it's almost like the first campaign has another $30k campaign glued on top of it now. It'll be interesting to see if it comes together.
I've been waiting for the not-SoB from this line and honestly I'm not too pleased with what I'm seeing. Pauldrons are massive, standing poses are dull, and the way they're holding their guns... what's up with that? Normal aiming poses for not-bolters please.
I also think they're a bit lackluster, but given the goal listed maybe they could just be a later follow-up campaign?
Overall, I think there should be an absolutely kick arse, well posed render of a finished model to really sell the kit. As it is, that render probably won't do so - it looks like it's still WIP. Which isn't a problem, again, necessarily... just means it's not quite ready.
drbored wrote: I've been waiting for the not-SoB from this line and honestly I'm not too pleased with what I'm seeing. Pauldrons are massive, standing poses are dull, and the way they're holding their guns... what's up with that? Normal aiming poses for not-bolters please.
I'm hoping that the John Woo-dual-pistol pose for long guns won't be a thing. But yeah, properly posed renders (with real hands!) would add so much to the attractiveness of them. Because "trust us, we'll fix it" from SW doesn't do wonders, even for me. Especially after the last campaign.
Why... are they holding guns in one hand? It looks ridiculous, especially with how huge the weapons are. I sure hope those aren't actual poses that will come in the box...
I think (hope?) that there's a bit of a fish-eye lens thing in effect here. The guns look huge, but then so do the upper torsos look a bit disproportionately large compared to the legs, despite the low angle. Pauldrons are a little over-large as well, by maybe 15-20% The backpack also looks pretty huge on that model on the far right.
@Mymearan
Good morning! :-)
Lol, no! This kit must sell at retail to make us the money we are investing back, this is a Kickstarter and not a glorified pre-order.
We have provided the main idea, we still have a giggle everytime we think back then at the Shieldmaiden KS, people where saying "I don't want the models to be this static" even if we had explicitely witten these are T-poses (i.e. the pose every sculptor uses at first before). This time we took it a step ahead to give a better visual, apparently we again missed communicating the point! :-D
Feedback on the guns has been received (we have said so repeatedly on the comment section but we will write it down on an update just to be crystal clear).
Very promising – the silhouette looks good, and there's a good variety of detailing such as belt decorations and haircuts. Unlike angel of death 007, I think the abdominal armour looks good already; it prevents them looking wasp-waisted and fragile – which suits the stylised but (relatively) practical look well.
The pauldron size doesn't faze me; though a slight adjustment downwards in size for the backpacks, pauldrons and weapons would definitely make them more tempting.
Like some of the other posters, I really don't like the big glove things on the sci-fi sisters – that's what's stopping me backing now – but it sounds like you've got that in hand (if you'll excuse the pun); along with the posing.
Looking forward to seeing the tweaks, but looking very tempting indeed already.
Guys, this is work in progress, we don't have the luxury to spend on final designs if we don't secure the final funding first, it's just how things are! Weaponry has been discussed in the comment section and we will be posting an update on this also, if someone doubts we have the know-how in order to give them visible hands instead then I really don't know what to say. :-/
Here are some of the earlier designs, nothing fancy but still to give you an idea.
@Ingtaer
one handed weaponry, if we don't hit the SG to provide them with alternative heavy weaponry then we'll probably be adding a couple ourselves. Heavy machine gun and heavy flaming weapon are the first in line if that's your next question. ;-)
Those hand renders do look much better! But as Azazelx posted, given the results from the last campaign where spears were not included, people should definitely not take it for granted that you'll make a change, but express what they want to see in the models to make sure the message gets through.
I do think they'd look much better holding their guns in two hands. Since the arms look like they're separate pieces in both kits, this should be possible, but it would probably take a huge groundswell of support to convince SW. If you look at the models people would use these as, though, that's definitely what would look like the best fit, I think!
For counts-as purposes, what would people here plan to put in the second (non-gun) hand? From these pics, you'd have to convert something for that yourself... It seems like this would need a ready answer in the kit no matter what, for them to really be useful to most players, since the unit they'd be used as holds only a single gun in two hands.
Mymearan wrote: Am I correct in assuming all guns will be two-handed in the final versions then?
The larger guns which would look unnatural if they were held as a single hand weapon will be two-handed, yes. We'll still need to test and see what's the best fit, it is unlikely we will use the same sculpting procedure we used on the halberds of our Mountain Orcs though. We are thinking of molding one hand on the weapon to also make assembly easier. We have a good idea of how the distribution on the sprue will be, but being HIPS it's not the same as resin or metal production -way more complicated. :-)
@RiTides
Spears were initially never planned for, it was brought up during the Shieldmaiden project in the comments section and we thought we could include them. It took us time, effort and funds for something that at the end didn't fit and we found ourselves forced to drop. We are much more careful in this project not to extend ourselves in things we "think" can be included (even if we are pretty sure on them), best we surprise everyone pleasently at the end than overpromise and under-deliver. :-)
Mymearan wrote: Am I correct in assuming all guns will be two-handed in the final versions then?
The larger guns which would look unnatural if they were held as a single hand weapon will be two-handed, yes. We'll still need to test and see what's the best fit, it is unlikely we will use the same sculpting procedure we used on the halberds of our Mountain Orcs though. We are thinking of molding one hand on the weapon to also make assembly easier. We have a good idea of how the distribution on the sprue will be, but being HIPS it's not the same as resin or metal production -way more complicated. :-)
@RiTides
Spears were initially never planned for, it was brought up during the Shieldmaiden project in the comments section and we thought we could include them. It took us time, effort and funds for something that at the end didn't fit and we found ourselves forced to drop. We are much more careful in this project not to extend ourselves in things we "think" can be included (even if we are pretty sure on them), best we surprise everyone pleasently at the end than overpromise and under-deliver. :-)
Um, you what? So first you give two different answers to the same question and then you follow up with that load of rubbish to 'Tides.
Heres some pics for you, you might recognise them;
Those are your renders from the Shieldmaiden campaign, holding spears, posted before backers even had a chance to comment.
Yes, the bident (we called it trident at the time!), which we said on comments and on an update https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1273312680/war-is-coming-shieldmaidens-army-reboot/posts/1503497 where we had written our initial planning, quoting from that update
"we will decide in the Summer which of the sculpted pieces will make it to the final tooling process -trident is unlikely to make it for example as it cosnumes too much space & probably falls away from the theme, but as we said these are all initial concepts and Work in Progress (WIP)."
This should have been made clear on future updates like some people from here suggested, it didn't cross our minds and we never did it.
I am sorry but this is getting frustrating, place yourself in our shoes. We are a small team trying to make the best of it, with fairly good results so far. Not optimal, but certainly not lacking. The spears issue has been discussed before in this very forum, there's nothing we can do about it now. There was good intention and effort, and we did try to fit them in, we also explained that's the reason why the additional bodies were tooled horizzontally instead of vertically on the Shieldmaiden sprues you received, it was so we could fit the spears. Which we didn't. True. We assumed responsability and the story has ended with us carrying away the knowledge.
I wrote this because someone not aware of the story if reading what RiTides writes is as if the spears where a stretch goal or something and while funded we didn't deliver. Which is not true! You are supporting us, why would would I trouble making any excuse on something that has happened just to irritate you? I could have ignored the comment, but that's not my job, my job is to address everything and I'm trying my best. HIPS is not easy to deal with, it takes many many months of sculptiing, matching, test printing, lay-outs, undercuts, final printing, calibrating and tooling, God knows how many hours Angelos is on top of all that to make sure it goes as it must. For this reason we have not listed a precise breakdown of weaponry, exactly because we don't want the spear issue to be ever repeated.
Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote: Yes, the bident (we called it trident at the time!), which we said on comments and on an update https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1273312680/war-is-coming-shieldmaidens-army-reboot/posts/1503497 where we had written our initial planning, quoting from that update
"we will decide in the Summer which of the sculpted pieces will make it to the final tooling process -trident is unlikely to make it for example as it cosnumes too much space & probably falls away from the theme, but as we said these are all initial concepts and Work in Progress (WIP)."
This should have been made clear on future updates like some people from here suggested, it didn't cross our minds and we never did it.
That update was published after the KS ended, though. So it's not like people could have reacted to it unpledging. And it wasn't on the KS main page either (but the renders were, very prominently so).
I do agree that it should probably have been made clearer what exactly went in and out on a following update as soon as the contents were fixed. I never got into the comments, so never really knew.
Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote: Yes, the bident (we called it trident at the time!), which we said on comments and on an update https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1273312680/war-is-coming-shieldmaidens-army-reboot/posts/1503497 where we had written our initial planning, quoting from that update
"we will decide in the Summer which of the sculpted pieces will make it to the final tooling process -trident is unlikely to make it for example as it cosnumes too much space & probably falls away from the theme, but as we said these are all initial concepts and Work in Progress (WIP)."
This should have been made clear on future updates like some people from here suggested, it didn't cross our minds and we never did it.
That update was published after the KS ended, though,
Negative. The date of the update is February 27th, 2016 and it was number 13 out of 22 updates in total before the project was succesfully funded on March 3rd, 2016.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Albertorius wrote: I do agree that it should probably have been made clearer what exactly went in and out on a following update as soon as the contents were fixed. I never got into the comments, so never really knew.
We have admitted this was a mistake from our part. We assume full responsability, perfect communication is our obbligation and certainly not that of the backers.
Mymearan wrote: Am I correct in assuming all guns will be two-handed in the final versions then?
The larger guns which would look unnatural if they were held as a single hand weapon will be two-handed, yes. We'll still need to test and see what's the best fit, it is unlikely we will use the same sculpting procedure we used on the halberds of our Mountain Orcs though. We are thinking of molding one hand on the weapon to also make assembly easier. We have a good idea of how the distribution on the sprue will be, but being HIPS it's not the same as resin or metal production -way more complicated. :-)
@RiTides
Spears were initially never planned for, it was brought up during the Shieldmaiden project in the comments section and we thought we could include them. It took us time, effort and funds for something that at the end didn't fit and we found ourselves forced to drop. We are much more careful in this project not to extend ourselves in things we "think" can be included (even if we are pretty sure on them), best we surprise everyone pleasently at the end than overpromise and under-deliver. :-)
I hope "larger guns" include basically everything but Bolt Pistols, because anything else will look ridiculous one-handed on a female in power armour, including normal Bolters.
Just to be clear, I mentioned the spears because the renders showed spears, and then they weren't in the kit - and that's it. Now, to get back to the matter "at hand":
People would really love to field these models holding guns with two hands, as that's how the models they're representing are armed. But regardless of how they hold them, you need a plan for them to be armed with only one gun and no combat weapon.
If you could pass on that feedback, I'm sure many folks would appreciate it!
Those fantasy sisters are awesome! Will there be hammers or shields on the sprue?
As for the sci fi sisters, I'll agree that the boxy elbows and wrist supports (In the grim darkness of the far future, there is no worker's comp?) don't work. I also would like to see the helmets you have planned before I get too excited. But the cores of the miniatures are solid designs that look great.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Are the closed fist-boxes a work-around to make the guns ambidextrous?
Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote: Negative. The date of the update is February 27th, 2016 and it was number 13 out of 22 updates in total before the project was succesfully funded on March 3rd, 2016.
Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote: Negative. The date of the update is February 27th, 2016 and it was number 13 out of 22 updates in total before the project was succesfully funded on March 3rd, 2016.
Ah, so it is. I stand corrected.
We made mistakes as well on the communication department, we'll try to be clearer from now on.
In the meanwhile we have come up with an idea to have the paladins made faster by tooling the rest in resin. We believed (also according to our research) that female paladins would be requested in the market but apparently people aren't as interested as we thought. We are using this idea we came up with (although we would very much prefer to tool everything in plastic) mainly because we hold control on the resin production and math adds up.
Let us know what you think, we have posted the new SG list on the comment section before moving on to an official update but we want to know what you think!
I would suggest just saving them for their own campaign - the demand is not lacking, but a development process to match what people are looking for is needed (most notably, 2-handed guns!).
Since they're far from unlocking, it hopefully wouldn't effect this campaign adversely, and would give you a much better return in the long run! You could even do it as a follow up campaign right after this one, and allow backers from this campaign to select those models if they're willing to wait a bit (to avoid bailouts here).
Switching to resin would also risk backers leaving because the price point won't be suitable for mass armies, so a follow-up campaign after adjusting the renders to be 2-handed would be the best bet, I think! I've seen other companies do this quite successfully when stretch goals weren't reached - but it's only worth doing if you adjust the design like many people posted last page (to have them be 2-handed on All guns). That's where the huge demand is
The comments clarify that they're suggesting doing the 'extra' bits in resin but the main bodies will be plastic (since those are shared). Here's the proposed SG map:
-45K SG with all the additional bits cast in resin
-50K SG we tool weaponry (hammers) and the rest in resin
-55K SG we tool cloth tabards and the rest in resin
-60K SG we tool everything in plastic.
-65K SG we double the content in the boxes for the paladins.
I'm out. I don't want hybrid kits. And to be quite frank, messing around with bits and bobs in different materials just smacks of desperation and it gives me cold feet. Maybe I'm being irrational...
Best of luck though, I hope they turn out great and that they will be HIPS, in which case I'll buy retail (unless GW actually makes them by that stage).
Yeah at this point I'm kind of unclear. I was thinking about backing but now I'm probably going to wait. If everything shakes out by the last 48 hrs I might look at it again then.
The wolf sisters are still cool minis, still worth buying, but I'm not likely to up my pledge until I know what is plastic and what isn't...so, during the pledge manager or next KS campaign?
The Shieldmaidens were great minis. The wolf sisters will probably be great minis, too. Even better if they come with enough spare weapons to help a sister (shieldmaiden) out.
It's just a shame the Paladins are getting treated like afterthoughts, because they would have been my greater love.
Paragon 'Til Death, yo.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I am not clear what you are saying. Are the fantasy Sisters of Tillaerium (sp?) going to be resin instead of plastic now?
Not exactly. Unless the 60K SG gets reached, we are proposing a hybrid kit in the meanwhile at 45K. The closer we get to the 60K target the more bits will be tooled in plastic instead of restic.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Also, how are you reaching the conclusion that people are not interested in female Paladins? Just curious what research you used.
Yeah, the progress could be better, we were quite sure that female paladins would hit the mark as all our surveys (emails, personal messages on Facebook, on Kickstarter etc) illustrated that "Yes, if the price is right I'd want that". Apparently the demand is lower than projected.
@Nostromodamus
Yeah, we too are way more fond of a "pure" plastic kit (i.e. without hybrid parts) but it's about numbers and we are trying to bring something new to the market. Hopefully this will pull us little by little through and eventually reach the 60K SG (and even 65K, why not?...) so everyone will be super happy all the same :-)
Anyway, update coming up late tonight. I'd like to repeat that this doesn't change the 60K and 65K SG marks, it simply adds more to the road to get to them. Seems till now that backers are OK with that from the comment section at least, we'll wait to see the reaction after the update (#10).
From the kickstarter comments, the current plan is still al Plastic release for both the Fantasy sisters and Scifi sisters at $60,000 with the Scifi sisters going from 10 to 20 models at $65,000.
What the change they are proposing is that because the funding has stalled a bit there will be a release of the sisters in resin (or hybrid plasic/resin) at $45,000 with extra bits added on at various stretch goals... like heads and weapons and what not... If/Once the funding reaching $60,000 the resin bits will change to a full plastic kit... But if the funding does not reach $60,000 at least there will still be a sisters kit available for both scifi and fantasy albeit in resin.
I admit that I voted for Sisters back when they did the poll, and am not really interested in the Wolf girls... but this does seem to be at least a good compromise... Not sure how far I would be in for a lot of resin figures... but will say their resin is better than Raging Heroes...
This is the idea: we need the additional funds in order to tool the plastics. As you have understood from this lay-out and images so far, we will be using weaponry (some of it at least), bodies and some of the heads. We will need to tool cloth tabards, cloaks, pauldrons and some heads.
Instead of jumping on the 60K SG, we propose the following NEW stretch goal map
-45K SG with all the additional bits cast in resin
-50K SG we tool weaponry (hammers) and the rest in resin
-55K SG we tool cloth tabards and the rest in resin
-60K SG we tool everything in plastic.
-65K SG we double the content in the boxes for the paladins.
Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote: Yeah, the progress could be better, we were quite sure that female paladins would hit the mark as all our surveys (emails, personal messages on Facebook, on Kickstarter etc) illustrated that "Yes, if the price is right I'd want that". Apparently the demand is lower than projected.
Did you pass on the feedback many people posted last page about the guns needing to be 2-handed? Demand is definitely not low for counts-as Sisters of Battle. The problem is, your paladins currently don't match that. That's obviously what they're intended to be used as, so they need to match the equipment of the models they're representing!
The other problem is that they feel just tacked on to the end of this campaign. I gave pretty thorough, respectful feedback about that above... please pass it on, I think you're going to be in danger going the hybrid route and would have better success with a follow-on campaign, instead.
Just trying to be helpful, hopefully it's getting passed on to the decision makers at your company as they consider their options going forward! They really need to carefully consider both of the above...
Would the plastic sci fi wolf sister arms work on the plastic faith sisters' bodies? Why not make a sci fi arms sprue they can both use ?
Actually, I,m confused because it looks like the wolf kits have a sprue for bodies and pauldrons that are genre-neutral and then a sprue of fantasy arms and weapons and a sprue of sci fi arms and weapons. If this is what you are doing, wouldn't the sci fi arms sprue also apply to the sisters of faith kit?
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Would the plastic sci fi wolf sister arms work on the plastic faith sisters' bodies? Why not make a sci fi arms sprue they can both use ?
Actually, I,m confused because it looks like the wolf kits have a sprue for bodies and pauldrons that are genre-neutral and then a sprue of fantasy arms and weapons and a sprue of sci fi arms and weapons. If this is what you are doing, wouldn't the sci fi arms sprue also apply to the sisters of faith kit?
If I understand you correctly, the sci-fi weaponry is going to be the same plastic for both Sisters of Wolves and Sisters of Faith.
@RiTides
Fair enough.
Edit: Yes, I said so to Angelos and he read the thread here. I will ask him to post on this on tonight's update, he will be the one writing it.
I'm not sure, but it sounds like you're expecting people to pledge for things that aren't unlocked yet in order to unlock them? That's not typically how KS pledgers operate, in my experience. People up their pledges for things that get unlocked, they don't pledge and hope.
If a backer sees a 20 model box as a good value, but a 10 model box as not, they're not going to pledge (typically) till it's a 20 model box. You can argue that by doing it that way they're shooting themselves in the foot, but that doesn't change it.
For example, I'll be happy to add $100+ to my pledge once the spider-bras are unlocked with the alternate parts, but I'm not going to do so until then because, if they don't, and I don't stay on top of it and drop my pledge, I end up with a bunch of models I don't want cause I can't get that money back after the fact.
skarsol wrote: I'm not sure, but it sounds like you're expecting people to pledge for things that aren't unlocked yet in order to unlock them? That's not typically how KS pledgers operate, in my experience. People up their pledges for things that get unlocked, they don't pledge and hope.
If a backer sees a 20 model box as a good value, but a 10 model box as not, they're not going to pledge (typically) till it's a 20 model box. You can argue that by doing it that way they're shooting themselves in the foot, but that doesn't change it.
For example, I'll be happy to add $100+ to my pledge once the spider-bras are unlocked with the alternate parts, but I'm not going to do so until then because, if they don't, and I don't stay on top of it and drop my pledge, I end up with a bunch of models I don't want cause I can't get that money back after the fact.
Both are usually true... Like in the reaper Kickstarter. You Pledge X initially.... But then they show a stretchgoal at $1,000,000 for a big dragon.... for $20... You can (and are encouraged) to up your pledge to help that stretch goal unlock... but your right, if it doesn't then you have to change your pledge down if you don't see any other place to spend that money... or you are stuck and have to choose something else... If people only waitied to pledge for stuff that is unlocked, then nothing would even get unlocked...
I am not sure on this though. Maybe they should stick with the Wolf sisters and then do a separate Kickstarter for the sisters next week or next month...
We have been thinking of how to speed the progress since it's not as fast as we'd like it to be. We think that we have come up with a good compromise that should work well for everyone! :-)
[Thankfully we have given this project more time than we usually dedicate to our crowdfunding projects (three weeks instead of the usual two) so we are still on great track to unlock a whole lot more]
New Stretch Goal Order
We have prepared new graphics to illustrate better, please have a look and I'll explain below.
This stretch goal order ensures both good viability of the project (remember that here at Shieldwolf Miniatures we cast in-house, therefore all this will be under our complete control) and shortens the gaps in order to help make this kit a reality! :-)
This doesn't mean that intermediate add-ons can't be inserted along the way on the road to the 60K goal. On the contrary, it's a certainty.
Weaponry Alterations
It has been discussed in the comment section and some forums we monitor but it is proper to write it down in an update (to make sure people see this!).
We will be redesigning the weaponry, mainly the arm guard has caused issues -we would hate for *that* to be a deal-breaker, so we are very willing to change it.
The beauty of crowdfunding is the interaction with the very people who help make this happen, we are very happy that you feel part of this -because, well, you are! :-D
All this is Work in Progress and changes can be made, this is about being open and honest with each and everyone of you, so if you had missed this change regarding the weaponry please take note. :-)
We are very interested to know what you think of this, kindly dedicate us a minute of your time to write down a comment regarding this update.
skarsol wrote: ... People up their pledges for things that get unlocked, they don't pledge and hope.
If a backer sees a 20 model box as a good value, but a 10 model box as not, they're not going to pledge (typically) till it's a 20 model box...
That's the boat I'm in.
Boxes of 10 sci-fi not-Sisters I'll order =zero
Boxes of 20 I'll order = lots, plus tanks too.
I can't pledge right now because nothing you're offering now is what I want. Won't pledge on a maybe.
I get that. I am only interested in the Sisters, so if they don't reach funding I am out... But Kickstarter in general is a maybe... I have been lucky and only had 2 real failures... (Torn Armor) and (Fairy Tale Games as a later backer)... but Kicktarter is to help things get made, not to buy stuff already available...
10 VS 20 is an issue... Kick Traq has this projected at around $100,000 last time I checked... If that is any indication then the Plastic sets should be unlocked and the 20 model boxes should be unlocked... I am still hopeful.
Edit: I messed up on the quote... Sorry, cant figure out how to change to correct person...
PourSpelur wrote: I can't pledge right now because nothing you're offering now is what I want. Won't pledge on a maybe.
That is usually the boat I'm in, except I don't count the pledge final until the last day. I don't have an issue pledging on something based on what I'd like. If everything is fine, unlocked, and still suits me then no changes need to happen... but if it isn't, then I cancel or lower my pledge. When the KS closes is when I consider the pledge closed and final. The main reason I tend to pledge early is so I can get the updates and know where I stand by the last day.
True that. After reading the above posts and being forced to do the right thing (Pledge now on a maybe, adjust or remove pledge on last day if maybe's become coulda-beens) it raises a point.
How many people are doing the same?
How much money are you leaving on the table by not offering what people want now?
Is it better to make all the goodies available at 65k in the hopes you get there so it'll blow up, or is it better to make them available sooner so people don't pass completely?
10 VS 20 is an issue... Kick Traq has this projected at around $100,000 last time I checked... If that is any indication then the Plastic sets should be unlocked and the 20 model boxes should be unlocked... I am still hopeful.
Like I said, for $5k - which is an amount so small that I could come up with it myself from saving for a couple of months - you're shorting your backers and more importantly yourselves because you're offering half as many as you are of the fantasy figures. I don't know how many people are put off by that, but it doesn't seem uncommon. It's a fething TERRIBLE choice. One of the worst that you could have made.
Asking for final feedback - open for a week or more - give people a few days to mull over their thoughts, and hopefully a weekend if you want quality feedback - 2-3 weeks before launch would have been the time and place to do so, not for 24 hours without telling anyone outside of (presumably) the remnants of the superfans and others still active in the comments section of a campaign that finished months ago who will yes-man 90% of ideas.
I personally don't think the nun-sisters will fund at this point, and if the campaign relaunches, I'd certainly do the following from the outset:
Offer 20 per box - no fething about with saving a few cents on sprue shots.
1-2 proper, finished, posed renders. One in an open, sword and pistol/carbine pose and the other in the classic "2-handed, rifle across chest" pose. I've linked to photos from my own blog for an entirely unrelated game simply as posing examples.
Proper guns. I'd suggest using an image of the FN-SCAR alongside the carbine used by the models to make it very clear where the inspiration for Shieldwolf's unique weapon came from.
Get feedback from multiple sources before relaunching. Have private discussions with individuals who have further strong ideas on how to avoid pitfalls.
AVOID USING THE fething KICKSTARTER COMMENTS AS A SOLE SOURCE OF FEEDBACK.
KS-update message to ALL previous campaign backers - 1 month BEFORE launching and then again THE MOMENT the campaign actually launches - especially if you have some sort of incentive-freebies.
A couple of important things to remember -
You basically have 4 campaigns in one here - fantasy and sci-fi wolves, fantasy and sci-fi nuns.
Shieldwolf has about 400-odd regular KS backers, give or take. Most of those people have already backed or are on the fence. That's where the current $38k came from. Those people have already committed their money. If you want to double it, you need an additional 400-odd people, because most people can't simply afford to double their pledges, and if someone has already backed for 40 or 80 sisters, doubling their pledge means if the campaign doesn't fund the $60/65k (or look like it will) leaves them in the position of needing to pull half of their pledge or double their existing models. I buy a lot of models, but I'll certainly never need 160 of pretty much the same fantasy wolf sisters, and I could use that theoretical $200 in a lot of other ways.
You can leverage your existing backers once to open up extras, but at that point you need to attract new ones with value that is at that point unlocked in the campaign. If I were a new backer looking to get some sisters that have nothing to do with wolves, with 14 days to go and almost $30k to get to where it's a worthwhile box , I'd hit "remind me" and come back in 2 weeks. I certainly wouldn't drop down $200 in the hope that it funds what I actually want.
I could continue pointing out errors in the not-sisters and the campaign as a whole that could (should!) have been addressed before the campaign, but my god, I'm so tired of doing it. I'm ill at the moment, so I'm literally both sick and tired so have little energy to keep doing so here.
I'm one of those people who are interested in the KS, but haven't backed yet. I like the tanks you're offering, particularly with the religious doors you pictured on your website. I'd be up for 6-12, depending on how my funds look in the next two weeks. But I want the religious doors, not the Norse. (would be willing to buy the doors I want separately though).
If the not-sisters don't get unlocked, would your company be selling, or at least be considering selling vehicle upgrade packs at or before KS delivery?
Mmmpi wrote: I'm one of those people who are interested in the KS, but haven't backed yet. I like the tanks you're offering, particularly with the religious doors you pictured on your website. I'd be up for 6-12, depending on how my funds look in the next two weeks. But I want the religious doors, not the Norse. (would be willing to buy the doors I want separately though).
If the not-sisters don't get unlocked, would your company be selling, or at least be considering selling vehicle upgrade packs at or before KS delivery?
We will see how sales work at retail for our science fiction range, we are rookies in this market and need numbers to make assessments.
Nothing illustrated in the campaign is ever going to sale before KS delivery. We have promised this in the past, we promise this now, we will promise this in the future. Why you may ask. It is financially unfavourable to us and we miss out of money, but ethically it's the right thing to do. It's not always about money but paid trust must be repaid (sorry for my English, I don't know any synonym for the verb pay).
Lol! :-)
Dragon Wardens plastic kit for example cannot be made since financially we can't cover the costs for the molds.
Master of Wolves and other similar models we'll eventually create through the retail sales we make, it's just a much slower process than having them funded before hand.
For fantasy we have a good idea what the speed will be; Sci-fi instead remains a mystery as we don't have any data and we'll have to see (i.e. for the Grand Fenris miniature we know give or take how many we'll be selling each year, for a Grand Snotra on the other hand we have not the slightest clue!)
skarsol wrote: I hate that the Arachno-things keep getting tied to essentially unrelated Kickstarters. Just make those separately! (Or in their own project.)
But they asked their best backers, and they all agreed that spider-centauresses are the most requested allies of sci-fi wolf-sisters with boxing glove guns. Are you saying their research is inaccurate?
I know you're joking, Bob, but no need to be mean!
For myself, I am also after the Arachnomaidens, but because they're just an add-on it's not as efficient to pledge for them here. I do want to pick them up (I owe them to Werhkind, for when we thought they'd unlock in the prior campaign!) but they aren't necessarily a very good fit here.
Also just wanted to say I've been PM'ing with SW and am hopeful that they could make a few tweaks - it's really up to the owner Angelos, and I'd hate to see a bit of "shooting the messenger" here with their Dakka account.
I apologize for being mean. I am a fan of Shieldwolf and intended that more as good-natured ribbing. I've been very happy with all of the products I've bought from them*, and plan to be a customer for years.
Mmmpi wrote: I'm one of those people who are interested in the KS, but haven't backed yet. I like the tanks you're offering, particularly with the religious doors you pictured on your website. I'd be up for 6-12, depending on how my funds look in the next two weeks. But I want the religious doors, not the Norse. (would be willing to buy the doors I want separately though).
If the not-sisters don't get unlocked, would your company be selling, or at least be considering selling vehicle upgrade packs at or before KS delivery?
We will see how sales work at retail for our science fiction range, we are rookies in this market and need numbers to make assessments.
Nothing illustrated in the campaign is ever going to sale before KS delivery. We have promised this in the past, we promise this now, we will promise this in the future. Why you may ask. It is financially unfavourable to us and we miss out of money, but ethically it's the right thing to do. It's not always about money but paid trust must be repaid (sorry for my English, I don't know any synonym for the verb pay).
Put the religions not-Rhino doors up as a paid add-on. Do it now without requiring an unlock for a paid add-on.
If they're already digitally sculpted then you can easily get a high quality 3-d print master and mould making is your forte anyway. Mmmpi is already down for a dozen. Make them reasonably priced and you'll get a bunch of buys now regardless because people can use them in several forces regardless of whether the nuns get unlocked.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Arachnomaidens unlocked for those people here that were interested.
Angelos/Dimitrius, might be a good idea to update the thread title here with that as well.
RiTides wrote: I know you're joking, Bob, but no need to be mean!
For myself, I am also after the Arachnomaidens, but because they're just an add-on it's not as efficient to pledge for them here. I do want to pick them up (I owe them to Werhkind, for when we thought they'd unlock in the prior campaign!) but they aren't necessarily a very good fit here.
I thought my ears were burning....
Just to preface, I have ~250$ of Shield Maidens across the room from me now, and ~5000 points of Sisters of Battle across the other side. I don't even know how much that would cost or sell for now, but I have been collecting them since '07 at least, right around the start of 4th edition. So believe me when I say that plastic space nuns would see me very excited and waving my credit card about. I really like your work and basic aesthetic, and of course the price point is very nice.
I really need to offer some feedback, however. As those renders stand, there are a few things that would need to change over all before I was sure I wanted to buy.
1: Scale down the weapons. The shield maidens had some cool weapons, and others looked like they were made for a model twice as large. The resins in particular sported ax heads that were just silly. Not heroic scale, not magical fantasy, just 200 lbs of steel on a 20 millimeter thick rod silly. Their small hands made that especially obvious. A fully automatic 12 gauge (.75 caliber) rifle does not need to be 25 cm tall or 15 cm deep. Likewise with the flamers that you are showing. Scale the weapons down to a reasonable level, please. They don't have to be whisper thin, but don't make it look like they are trying to shoot 2 liter soda bottles either.
2: Scale down the pauldrons. PP has giant silly shoulder armor, and it looks terrible to all but a tiny portion of their players. GW even doesn't over do the shoulders (as much). Shoulder armor that protrudes more than 4-7 cm from the shoulder is just over doing it. Scaling down the weapons will go much farther towards making the armor seem more bulky and brutal than having pauldrons a World of Warcraft character would cringe at. You want it to look like normal sized people in heavy armor with roughly normal sized weapons, not tiny/stringy people in normal armor with giant ass weapons.
3: Yea, hands are good, and if everything has the same basic pistol grip you can allow for just adding the weapon to the hand instead of having a different hand on each gun. That will help solve a lot of the "two hands on the gun" issues. Let the melee weapons/grenades/books have their own hand attached, but for the "standard" weapons they can share a hand chassis, if you will.
4: Make some more poses. Not different poses like which foot is slightly forward, but a crouching one, one leaning forward with weapon up to fire or just peaking around a wall, one running, one standing around giving orders, etc. The shield maidens suffer somewhat from all having sort of a "standing around, shouting at the enemy" pose. Not a big deal for rank and file troops, although one leaning forward a little, or bracing themselves for an impact on their shield would have been cool. For modern to scifi skirmish type troops, a bit more movement and differing positions are a good call.
5: Try and shoot for a 28 mm scale instead of 32 mm All Star Women's Basketball Team scale. The shield maidens are a bit tough to fit in with other models because they are both very thin (with very small hands) and very tall. It can be done certainly, but they always look "special" in that "Hey, we are all Kareem Abdul-Jabar's love children! There's like an army of us!" sort of way.
6: Seriously, dial back the scale creep.
So if you were just pleasing one single economist, I'd recommend the aesthetic changes, which might require putting the sci-fi religious girls into their own KS. I don't know what your bandwidth on changes looks like. I do know that looking at the renders I am immediately thinking of what bits I would have to buy or make myself to correct the above issues which makes it all less appealing. I like the fantasy nuns, but not enough to back them on their own. I would buy a box or two as an add on to a big Space Nuns pledge in the future, however.
Zywus wrote: Not a good look, cancelling your campaigns after reaching the funding goal... a second time :(
At this stage I don't think its a bad thing - I had backed for quite a bit but I was finding the campaign confusing in terms of what I could and could not pledge for and having the not SOBs as a "possible" rather than certain pledge was inhibiting my spending.
Hopefully its nothing serious with their company of people front and they can restart the campaign or more likely campaigns?
Azazel put this up in comments about 2 hours ago (as of me posting)
Azazel A about 2 hours ago
Shieldwolf has a core of around 400 backers. Most of us back every or at least most of their campaigns. Getting outside of that core will require something that people outside of SW's core supporters want.
Running essentially 4 campaigns at once was not the greatest idea. Starting the sci-fi models with 10 per box when the fantasy ones are 20 per box was a terrible one that shot themselves in the foot immediately.
In January, when SW did their research, it looked like GW might release SoB on the heels of Celestine (and RH was shipping), so Wolf Sisters would have seemed a more unique choice. The landscape has changed considerably in the last 10 months though. 40k is on fire, and there's no sign of plastic SoB anywhere on the horizon.
That also means that as much as many of us want SW to succeed, we're facing the choice of paying for 10-woman boxes of sci-fi sisters now and getting them in 12-18 months against picking up a Start Collecting box (or three, or four) or new-release DG, or PSM, or.. lots of new hotness.
Starting the Sci-Fi boxes with 20 (same as the Fantasy - compare apples to apples) would have defused a lot of that "poor value" perception, especially when it's only $5k between them. But that $5k puts off people outside of the 400 core SW backers, especially when a KS funding objective has got to be a wave building rather than a drip-feed.
Expecting people in the 400 to double their pledge to get a SECOND $30k (plus $5k) to unlock the stuff that many of them actually want is too much of a stretch.
Renders need some more work, but the "best" campaign would be the Space Nuns at $30k with 20/box as the first goal, and build from there.
All three other designs are cool, and while I'd personally like to get some of each, but only one of the four fills a particularly empty, high-demand hole in the marketplace of one of the most popular tabletop games out there.
There's always a risk. The risk is that GW will release proper HIPS SoB sometime between when a relaunched campaign funds and when it delivers, which would no doubt take a lot of the wind out of the new kits' sales, but it wouldn't affect funding, and if the Mountain orcs have sold okay, and if the Shieldmaidens have sold okay...
Oh, and Balgin. Your criticism of the discussions on Dakka is ...amusing. If you want to discuss directly then I'll see you there.
I will say this though - No-one (sane) is going to back a couple hundred bucks on a campaign that is funded (so you're guaranteed to be charged) on the hope that another $20k is going to drop in 10 or 12 days for the things they actually want when the funding has slowed to a crawl after Day 2.
Backing Day 1 for the initial funding is risk-free. Backing Day 8 when it's funded but needs another $30k for the things you actually want is simply foolishly optimistic. This isn't a CMON campaign, so just as backers & potential backers should not have unrealistic expectations on SW to provide endless extras and stratch goals like CMON, SW and existing backers should not expect funding to move anything like in a CMON campaign.
It looks like they were starting to question their market research, and felt they had bitten off more than they could chew product wise.
Zywus wrote: Not a good look, cancelling your campaigns after reaching the funding goal... a second time :(
At this stage I don't think its a bad thing - I had backed for quite a bit but I was finding the campaign confusing in terms of what I could and could not pledge for and having the not SOBs as a "possible" rather than certain pledge was inhibiting my spending.
Hopefully its nothing serious with their company of people front and they can restart the campaign or more likely campaigns?
I see your point. I was thinking that it's bad to create the impression that your KS drives are not serious, as might happen if they keep canceling funded campaigns. But it might be worth it to have a better structured campaign.
I just wish Shieldwolf would think these things over, collect feedback and advice before they're already in the middle of a campaign
That's just the thing they did their research, then they went away as got down to making plans, commissioning scupts etc which takes time
and now they've launched they're hearing a lot of different opinions about what people want in part at least because the gaming environment has changed, other companies have released (or not released) stuff etc
I think the big mistake was tying something they're funding themselves in to the KS which just complicated things both for backers/potential backers in trying to understand what was on offer, and them in trying to figure out what they could afford to do (and what to do if they said they would do something and then the KS went backwards)
(I'd also have been strongly tempted to run the KS for a single faction even if it resulted in a lower overall take but without access to their data and projections I don't know if that would have been viable)
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: That's just the thing they did their research, then they went away as got down to making plans, commissioning scupts etc which takes time
and now they've launched they're hearing a lot of different opinions about what people want in part at least because the gaming environment has changed, other companies have released (or not released) stuff etc )
Long term plans and changing gaming enviroment can cause some problems yes, but I'm thinking of smaller things that has more to do with how the KS page is structured.
For example, that weirdness of having Sisters of Wolves start at 10 models per box at the base funding goal of 30k, and then double to 20 a box at the 35k stretch goal.
That only confuses things and scare away potential backers who Why not simply put the base funding goal at 35k, with 20 women per box?
Shieldwolf I think, would really benefit from uploading a preview of their KS page some days before it goes live, and collect feedback then, rather than start to fidget with the campaign mid run.
They really need to accept when projects fund even if they don't fund to whatever crazy expectation they have. I dont understand why they wouldn't take the money and run then do it again with whatever didn't fund this time.
Oh well, maybe one day I'll be able to buy those Arachnomaidens. Just not this day. :(
I think its a bit off/weird that they just cancelled it without any hint of it coming...?
I would have thought an update to backers to warn them that it might be happening, or even one just before they cancelled it to explain what was happening. As it stands they just cancelled it out of the blue, and then added a one line comment on kickstarter (and again, using kickstarter comments as updates is not acceptable imo) saying we'll explain more later, and that was 9 hours ago... brilliant.
I just hope that the reason it as cancelled so abruptly is related to the project/financials/etc, and not something more personally serious i.e. illness/death/etc
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: That's just the thing they did their research, then they went away as got down to making plans, commissioning scupts etc which takes time
and now they've launched they're hearing a lot of different opinions about what people want in part at least because the gaming environment has changed, other companies have released (or not released) stuff etc )
Long term plans and changing gaming enviroment can cause some problems yes, but I'm thinking of smaller things that has more to do with how the KS page is structured.
For example, that weirdness of having Sisters of Wolves start at 10 models per box at the base funding goal of 30k, and then double to 20 a box at the 35k stretch goal.
That only confuses things and scare away potential backers who Why not simply put the base funding goal at 35k, with 20 women per box?
Shieldwolf I think, would really benefit from uploading a preview of their KS page some days before it goes live, and collect feedback then, rather than start to fidget with the campaign mid run.
Uploading the preview page with less than 24hrs to launch wasnt a good idea at all, we had been asking them for a couple of weeks about it and i think running sci-fi and fantasy at the same time wasnt a smart move either, i did voice my opinions about it when they announced the duel themed KS,
A couple in the comments have thought maybe a C&D from GW, it did cross my mind too, we just got to wait for the 13th update(spooky) to see what the reasons was :/
What makes you say the 13th? That's a bit odd (10 days away) especially if they planned to rework and relaunch, I would've thought they'd post their plans / get feedback sooner.
Interesting... some of the weapons did look a little too close for comfort, but the models themselves are obviously quite different from anything GW has done. Is it pure speculation or did any of the FB posters cite a source...?
RiTides wrote: Interesting... some of the weapons did look a little too close for comfort, but the models themselves are obviously quite different from anything GW has done. Is it pure speculation or did any of the FB posters cite a source...?
Most likely speculation from the comment that has sprawled onto varous sites as a few of us commented that COULD be the case over the Iron Wolf being a bit close to the real thing, the troops should be fine as there are no wolf emblems that are the same as GW uses and GW dont own the Fleur-de-lis, wolf's head or paladin/fur pelted armour.
RiTides wrote: Interesting... some of the weapons did look a little too close for comfort, but the models themselves are obviously quite different from anything GW has done. Is it pure speculation or did any of the FB posters cite a source...?
Most likely speculation from the comment that has sprawled onto varous sites as a few of us commented that COULD be the case over the Iron Wolf being a bit close to the real thing, the troops should be fine as there are no wolf emblems that are the same as GW uses and GW dont own the Fleur-de-lis, wolf's head or paladin/fur pelted armour.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: That's just the thing they did their research, then they went away as got down to making plans, commissioning scupts etc which takes time
and now they've launched they're hearing a lot of different opinions about what people want in part at least because the gaming environment has changed, other companies have released (or not released) stuff etc
It's not about that though, it's about a (very) poor choice (10 sci-fi sisters per box when we all know the point is to have 20), and not adjusting the campaign shortly before launch with the current environment in mind. All the renders, etc would remain just as valid (sure, the sci-fi models would still need their hammer-hands changed) bit they'd still be usable for the campaign if they were up front and 20/box with the wolves second, or whatever.
I think the big mistake was tying something they're funding themselves in to the KS which just complicated things both for backers/potential backers in trying to understand what was on offer, and them in trying to figure out what they could afford to do (and what to do if they said they would do something and then the KS went backwards)
If you mean the sci-fi models, then sorta. I've said this before. If the difference is $5k, I could bloody afford that (not as a backer, but I can get my hands on $5k without too much time and effort). If I can afford something that literally increases the value proposition of a key product by 100%, then it's foolish to hold that back behind an additional paywall and put potential backers outside that 400 off. I believe that SW would get more backers (and make that $5k up faster) by offering the "full" set of 2 sprue shots instead of one.
(I'd also have been strongly tempted to run the KS for a single faction even if it resulted in a lower overall take but without access to their data and projections I don't know if that would have been viable)
I agree here - sorta. Going with one theme rather than faction - sci-fi (both) or fantasy (both) or nuns (both) or wolves (both)
Long term plans and changing gaming enviroment can cause some problems yes, but I'm thinking of smaller things that has more to do with how the KS page is structured.
For example, that weirdness of having Sisters of Wolves start at 10 models per box at the base funding goal of 30k, and then double to 20 a box at the 35k stretch goal.
That only confuses things and scare away potential backers who Why not simply put the base funding goal at 35k, with 20 women per box?
Shieldwolf I think, would really benefit from uploading a preview of their KS page some days before it goes live, and collect feedback then, rather than start to fidget with the campaign mid run.
Also, this. Not a 24 hour window and only shared with people still sticking around in a single KS' previous comments months after its conclusion.
skarsol wrote: They really need to accept when projects fund even if they don't fund to whatever crazy expectation they have. I dont understand why they wouldn't take the money and run then do it again with whatever didn't fund this time.
Oh well, maybe one day I'll be able to buy those Arachnomaidens. Just not this day. :(
Yeah, that doesn't do them any favours and loses them backers and goodwill each time. I think a core problem here is that Shieldwolf keeps thinking (and expecting) their campaigns to blow up like a CMON campaign. Or even a Mantic one.
As I said in their comments (and reposted here). 400 backers. Use them to get the wider-appeal models funded so others get on board, and even then don't expect $100k, let alone more than that. Let that sort of thing be a nice surprise (that's planned for, of course) but not a core expectation.
From the KS update just posted:
Angelos wrote:
this was planned as our BIG project. Four different fantasy armies (Wolf Wardens, Sisters of Talliareum, Warmaidens & Dragon Wardens) and three different sci-fi armies (Sisters of Wolves, Sisters of Faith and Sisters of Dragons) along with ultimate stretch goals for the tooling of the vehicles and Aracnomaidens/Aracnowraths in HIPS.
That's a huge problem. If SW said that upfront, my spidey sense would be drowning out even the alarm bells. A KS for 7 armies. That level of expectation is crazy. Pick one, or a couple of those and do them well. Do them very well. Let's use (ahem) Sci-Fi Battling Sisters for our example.
Basic Troops with guns and flamethrowers and heat guns and a pistol & sword or three. Make sure there's enough special weapons to make them into Sisters Squad or a Celestian squad. Use stretch goals if needed to add enough extra flamers and heat guns and so forth for the Celstians. Stretch goal to add extra glue-on bling/helmets/icons to make Dominions.
Support troops with heavy flamethrowers and multi-heat guns and heavy guns (could potentially be an add-on sprue with weapons, arms, ammo backpacks and maybe a couple more heads, pouhes, etc - or a new full sprue with new torsos, legs, etc - there's another stretch goal to bump it from an upgrade sprue to a "new, full" sprue.) Have a couple of heavy weapons in the "core box", with the potential for it to be its own SKU for people who want to purchase heavies specifically.
Assault troops with jet packs and pistols and flame pistols heat pistols and pistols that shoot plasma and swords and chainsaw swords and...
Hero/Command sprue with parts to make a canoness, imagifier, hospitalier, dialogus, standard, etc - along with even more blinged-out weapons.
Then there's that plastic tank and all it's variations.
So there we have one army (not seven) that currently has high potential demand as proxies for a game that is huge at the moment, bulked out enough to be an entire KS.
With plenty of stretch goals that largely build on each previous one, especially when a lot of it is re-using existing renders with a few tweaks, adding more weapons, blinging out an existing weapon, etc. Of course there's new/unique stuff in there, like jet packs, but the torsos work off the original base sister. Even a lot of the hero/command sprue items would be tweaks of the initial base sister.
Like I said, I'd happily buy fantasy barbarian women, but they're a pretty generic concept that doesn't fill a high-demand niche in the market. I should point out that it just feels like that that niche will be filled with official models sometime in the next few years, based on the history of older things returning like Genestealer Cults, Deathwatch, proper Cult Troops etc - so it is indeed a risk. But it won't happen in 2017 as we're in the re-release book roll-out period, and so funding a KS would be a safe call, and there's still a lot of potential for lucrative sales before (if_ official models are finally released. And even then, hopefully Shieldwolf has sculpts that are good enough to stand strong and value in the boxes that's also there.
Having read the rest of the SW update:
The project will relaunch with only a single faction: Talliareum (paladins). One fantasy and one sci-fi. Theoretically we can start in a few days, we already have all the legwork done. I will however wait, not only because my entire team (me included) are down with the flu, but also because I would like to implement changes to some of the models according to feedback we received in this project. We will inform when ready if you are following us here on Kickstarter, FaceBook page or our Newsletter.
Having written up everything I have now done above, I'd honestly skip the fantasy stuff entirely for the time being (unless market research dictates that they MUST happen). There's more than enough Sci-fi stuff there for an entire campaign and would actually cover an entire tabletop army quite nicely (there'd still be outliers, like Repentia and walkers, but hey...) Going with both sci-fi and fantasy means you're again splitting your market, splitting the stretch goals for your backers, and for what? Is there a huge demand for female fantasy paladins right now? (again, I would happily buy them, but it's not about me) They don't/won't look enough like Stormcast to fill that niche, and I'd argue that particular niche is very small right now compared to SoB.
I'd also suggest previewing the campaign (for a week) to get feedback. I say a week because there are a lot of smart people around here, but people's work/sleep/family/social schedules and time zone differences mean a short feedback window means you're guaranteed to miss out on someone who has good advice.
Update is up, talks about "dodgy" IP infringement letters, not funding well and relaunch as separate KS for each faction.
I left a essay on the campaign page, the short of it is they need to do separate sprues for sci-fi and fantasy, and have multi-pose minis not rank and file, as i dont know any sci-fi using fantasy rank and file static forward facing bodies, they are rushing in and jumping on the sci-fi band wagan, 6 months ago they had no intentions of doing sci-fi minis until the backers & forum users planted the seed back in Feb talking about converting the paladins into Sisters of Battle.
, I'd hit "remind me" and come back in 2 weeks. I certainly wouldn't drop down $200 in the hope that it funds what I actually want.
