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Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/10/05 23:18:54


Post by: Azazelx


Just copypasta it here, Timmy.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/10/05 23:40:38


Post by: Smokestack


 Azazelx wrote:


Having written up everything I have now done above, I'd honestly skip the fantasy stuff entirely for the time being


I hope this is not the case being only in it for the fantasy stuff, and the return of most of their backers from the first one who backed a fantasy only campaign... I am sure they would still get the money they need but it would leave all of their fantasy backers out to dry...


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/10/05 23:47:58


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


They already have two fantasy armies, so a third one whose bits (weapon arms) are compatible with their previous fantasy army could be quite an asset.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/10/05 23:57:12


Post by: Original Timmy


"@Shieldwolf, Im glad everyone is ok bar the evil man-flu.

It certainly sucks that you most likey have been a target of "fake news" IP infringement letter, its certainly odd that your replies bounce back and cant be sent to sender!

I have been waiting on the reply of cancellation before posting anything about the campaign in case there was some serious health issues, your not going to like this but i hope you take it constructively!
Like you say in your update the Warmadians have been on the bill for some time( 2015/16), even this campaign has them listed as the title and even listed 1st as does your contract(as commented by you) but where are they?, quite a few previous backers also wondered where they were!

The Feb update on the Shieldmadian re-launch KS asked us to vote on what Dragonbreed will would like to follow the Warmaidens, you listed the wolves and paladins and asked us to choose, which we did and the wolves won hands down as it was more thematic, however in the update comments, campaign comments section and some forums a few of us had desires to convert the paladins into Sisters of Battle and the seed for sci-fi was planted and next update you stated you are looking at taking on a sci-fi expert and rushed to get into the sci-fi market, admittedly you done quite well in 6ish months to get some cool sculpts and concepts together but they are far from perfect, square elbow pads, boxed gun grips(what was you thinking!?) static poses, oversized guns, the tanks are pretty cool i couldnt really fault them!

Once you decided to do sci-fi you should have had another vote as basing peoples sci-fi "want haves" on peoples fantasy "what haves" was stupid as the paladins would have won hands down with a sci-fi vote!, people are calling out for Sisters of Battle in plastic and will more than likely pick up a bunch of cool proxies especially in plastic, im my opinion the wolves wouldnt have sold half as much and i think the wolves vehicles would have sold better than their minis counterparts.

Which brings me on to the actual sci-fi minis, apart from what i already listed you need to drop the duel use of fantasy and sci-fi leg/bodies as they will not sell that good especially if another company or GW release multi-pose not/Sisters of Battle, no sci-fi sprue i know uses a "rank and file" static front facing legs and body, (if there are please point me in their direction) they need some dynamic poses like running, knelling, walking etc and have the bodies separately so they can be angled with arms for carrying a weapon 2-handed etc.

Some of the pledge levels were all over the place as it was pointed out a few times during the campaign and it seemed to flavour the sci-fi crowd, even the whole campaign seemed aimed at the sci-fi crowd, leaving us fantasy guys a bit left out, i said when you announced the duel campaign of sci-fi and fantasy it wouldnt be a good idea as you had to try and keep both "camps" happy and you, i and your 1st KS backers know how hard it was to have 4 or 5 faction at once and keep everyone happy, it also stops us regular Shieldwolf supporters giving you our usual amounts of cash, ie i spend @$200 in the campaign and @$200 in the PM so if you have separate campaigns for the themes you will get more money out of me/us and vice versa as we would be getting a good deal in return, personally i dont spend much at retail as i do a lot of spending on here, i like to help creators and get a good/better deal than you get in the shops, i love a good bargain!

Having the preview page up a couple of weeks before launching would have been a great idea as we could have pointed out a lot of the things that were wrong with this campaign but for some reason even with a few of us asking for it you put it up late one night about 12-18hrs before launch and i bet no constructive criticism was given unlike on the preview for the last successful campaign you did, why did it go up so late and was there any comments on it?

Am i dissapointed in how this turned out!? yes, will i return!? more than likely as i want my Grand yetttiiii! i hope you seriously rethink your sci-fi plan as the problems listed were big enough for many people to comment about and get the campaign closed, remember your fantasy specialist and only just jumped on the sci-fi bandwagan, dont make rookie mistakes."

"I personally think they should keep sci-fi and fantasy separate and run campaigns for each of them at say 6 month intervals, no more than 1 of each themed KS running at a time so hopefully it doesnt effect each other. but can @Shieldwolf handle that sort of workload!?, it would certainly help get their factions out, if they carry on as is, its going to be 2020+ before they can flesh all their factions out!"


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/10/06 01:41:40


Post by: Azazelx


 Smokestack wrote:
 Azazelx wrote:

Having written up everything I have now done above, I'd honestly skip the fantasy stuff entirely for the time being


I hope this is not the case being only in it for the fantasy stuff, and the return of most of their backers from the first one who backed a fantasy only campaign... I am sure they would still get the money they need but it would leave all of their fantasy backers out to dry...


As I've said, I'd personally happily back all four of the initially announced figures, but it's essentially it comes down to business decisions versus "vanity project" ones. As Bob said, they already have two Fantasy armies (plus the stuff in resin) and SW going all-in on sci-fi for one single KS campaign isn't exactly the overly-dramatic "leaving all their fantasy backers out to dry". I'm sure you don't believe that they would not return to Fantasy.

My key point here is that a focused campaign is better than a scattershot one. I'd rather see a sci-fi focused campaign, followed by a fantasy-focused campaign rather than half-and-half each time, which then splits the backers' funds for those people who aren't willing or able to simply double their pledges for multiple factions, and also gets people backing the specific thing more stretch goals - which keeps the wave moving along - instead of "well, the next stretch goal doesn't do anything at all for me" indifference for those who back for one as opposed to the other. I mean, as a fantasy-only guy, would you give two gaks about a stretch goal that adds jump packs to the sci-fi sisters? Of course, not, it's merely something in the way of ...heavy flails or whatever.


 Original Timmy wrote:

Like you say in your update the Warmadians have been on the bill for some time( 2015/16), even this campaign has them listed as the title and even listed 1st as does your contract(as commented by you) but where are they?, quite a few previous backers also wondered where they were!


I did wonder about that myself, but (believe it or not!) I was trying to avoid critiquing every little thing in this campaign, and only comment on the most egregious issues. Let's be honest, there were a lot of those.



The Feb update on the Shieldmadian re-launch KS asked us to vote on what Dragonbreed will would like to follow the Warmaidens, you listed the wolves and paladins and asked us to choose, which we did and the wolves won hands down as it was more thematic, however in the update comments, campaign comments section and some forums a few of us had desires to convert the paladins into Sisters of Battle and the seed for sci-fi was planted and next update you stated you are looking at taking on a sci-fi expert and rushed to get into the sci-fi market, admittedly you done quite well in 6ish months to get some cool sculpts and concepts together but they are far from perfect, square elbow pads, boxed gun grips(what was you thinking!?) static poses, oversized guns, the tanks are pretty cool i couldnt really fault them!


To be blunt, my opinion is that the tanks are TOO "chibi". You know how the sisters' guns were oversized? (and the shieldmaidens before them - particularly the resins?) They did that with the tanks as well (and the turrets, and even the chassis). Put a render side by side with a photo of a predator and it just takes the thing too far to "chibi-style" proportions when a better option would be to ape the other company's proportions more closely, or if they have to be tweaked (feels like lawyer advice to me), to tweak them just slightly more towards "realistic" than "super-deformed cartoon".



Once you decided to do sci-fi you should have had another vote as basing peoples sci-fi "want haves" on peoples fantasy "what haves" was stupid as the paladins would have won hands down with a sci-fi vote!, people are calling out for Sisters of Battle in plastic and will more than likely pick up a bunch of cool proxies especially in plastic, im my opinion the wolves wouldnt have sold half as much and i think the wolves vehicles would have sold better than their minis counterparts.


Agreed on both counts, since the wolf vehicles could slot right into an existing SW army. Hoenstly, the overly neat, circular wolf pelt tabards, etc, bother(ed) me a great deal. Too neat and rounded as they were just looks wrong to my eye.



Which brings me on to the actual sci-fi minis, apart from what i already listed you need to drop the duel use of fantasy and sci-fi leg/bodies as they will not sell that good especially if another company or GW release multi-pose not/Sisters of Battle, no sci-fi sprue i know uses a "rank and file" static front facing legs and body, (if there are please point me in their direction) they need some dynamic poses like running, knelling, walking etc and have the bodies separately so they can be angled with arms for carrying a weapon 2-handed etc.


Agreed again. As nice as they are - what's one criticism of the Shieldmaidens that keeps coming up? Yep. Overly-static posing. It's that WHFB "Rank 'em up." aesthetic. But newer games and figures don't feel a need to stay strictly tied to only having a "standing around" pose. (with hair blowing wildly in a dozen different directions!) They don't have to have the same amount of motion as Witch Elves, but something like the AoS Khorne guys would be a good compromise for fantasy models. Even the old marauders had that nice variety. As you say, the sci-fi stuff needs more motion than the WHFB-inspired fantasy, ideally with separate torsos and legs. My best advice would be to basically buy a box of Sisters of Silence and ape those posing options. You can't copyright a stance.



Some of the pledge levels were all over the place as it was pointed out a few times during the campaign and it seemed to flavour the sci-fi crowd, even the whole campaign seemed aimed at the sci-fi crowd, leaving us fantasy guys a bit left out,


Funny. I felt the opposite way. I thought the sci-fi pledge offerings were (frankly) a bit rubbish with the 10-woman boxes, which was off-putting from the word go.



i said when you announced the duel campaign of sci-fi and fantasy it wouldnt be a good idea as you had to try and keep both "camps" happy and you, i and your 1st KS backers know how hard it was to have 4 or 5 faction at once and keep everyone happy, it also stops us regular Shieldwolf supporters giving you our usual amounts of cash, ie i spend @$200 in the campaign and @$200 in the PM so if you have separate campaigns for the themes you will get more money out of me/us and vice versa as we would be getting a good deal in return, personally i dont spend much at retail as i do a lot of spending on here, i like to help creators and get a good/better deal than you get in the shops, i love a good bargain!


You're right on the money with keeping both camps happy, and I think that's again a real danger with going for both sci-fi and fantasy paladins. Seeing the plans for 7...
I also agree that separate campaigns will get more money out of backers than combined ones. People have limits. Though for me, honestly, I've soured on kickstarter a great deal now, and so I'm much more careful with what I back. The sci-fi just offered poor value compared to what I could buy essentially today, at retail, with my money.

Since September 19th, when I found out about this campaign and put $50 down, I've bought Mortarion, 2x Deathshroud Terminators, 2x Blightlord Terminators, Admech Modex, Admech Datacards, AM(Guard) Codex, 2x AM(Guard) Datacards, Death Guard Codex, Death Guard Datacards, Primaris Reavers, AoS Firestorm campaign box, Frenzied Goretribe, 2x Blood Angels Orbital Intevention Force, 2x Stormboyz and a Start Collecting Orks box. Plus some paints and a bunch of PS4/XBox one games. And a FW order just before the 19th.

Now I want to support Shieldwolf, and I know my spending patterns are ...unusual (a bit of OCD to be sure), but to offer 10 plastic sci-fi sisters with blocks for hands, oversized guns, oversized backpacks... to be delivered in a year's time (or more, because KS delays). Well, that's just not going to compete well for my money. Because that's what it is. Shieldwolf isn't a charity. I like them and want to support them, but they (or any KS creator) aren't charities. They're businesses. When I want to give to charity, I send the local animal shelter some money (and I do - and then I have to ask them to stop spamming me for more!)
KS is a two-way street, and as I keep saying, I don't expect CMON-style freebies, but come on. Don't fething insult me with 10-figure boxes of sci-fi right next to 20-figure boxes of fantasy for the same price... because as a consumer, I do find that insulting. Not personally insulting, but an insulting expectation to back that.

So the existing campaign only got $50 from me, and I happily spent hundreds and hundreds on gak that I can buy and have delivered and use right now.



Having the preview page up a couple of weeks before launching would have been a great idea as we could have pointed out a lot of the things that were wrong with this campaign but for some reason even with a few of us asking for it you put it up late one night about 12-18hrs before launch and i bet no constructive criticism was given unlike on the preview for the last successful campaign you did, why did it go up so late and was there any comments on it?


Absolutely correct. I can't reiterate this enough. Preview it properly or not at all. Don't half-arse it.



Am i dissapointed in how this turned out!? yes, will i return!? more than likely as i want my Grand yetttiiii! i hope you seriously rethink your sci-fi plan as the problems listed were big enough for many people to comment about and get the campaign closed, remember your fantasy specialist and only just jumped on the sci-fi bandwagan, dont make rookie mistakes."


I'll (probably) continue to back each of Shieldwolf's campaigns - both fantasy and sci-fi - but they have to be for something I want with a reasonable pricing/value, and set up intelligently and logically. Honestly, if I didn't like the guys there to the extent that I do, I'd have walked away long ago and stopped giving a gak or posting in their threads. That's how I've felt about Mantic for some time, and I've pretty much gotten there with RH as well after their second figure-only KS.



"I personally think they should keep sci-fi and fantasy separate and run campaigns for each of them at say 6 month intervals, no more than 1 of each themed KS running at a time so hopefully it doesnt effect each other. but can @Shieldwolf handle that sort of workload!?, it would certainly help get their factions out, if they carry on as is, its going to be 2020+ before they can flesh all their factions out!"


I agree on keeping them separate, but 6-month intervals is too fast. I'm also not sure how many of the fantasy female kits are supposed to be distinct armies as opposed to different units within one army, so I could see fantasy campaigns covering hopefully 2 kits at a time (or more, but realistic expectations). The single most successful campaign that SW can do right now though, would be SoB-proxies. Both on the front-end and in getting new people on board to hopefully grow "the 400" in follow-up campaigns - which then potentially benefits subsequent fantasy campaigns as well.

edit - speelings


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/10/06 03:42:10


Post by: Original Timmy


Azazelx wrote:
Spoiler:

The Feb update on the Shieldmadian re-launch KS asked us to vote on what Dragonbreed will would like to follow the Warmaidens, you listed the wolves and paladins and asked us to choose, which we did and the wolves won hands down as it was more thematic, however in the update comments, campaign comments section and some forums a few of us had desires to convert the paladins into Sisters of Battle and the seed for sci-fi was planted and next update you stated you are looking at taking on a sci-fi expert and rushed to get into the sci-fi market, admittedly you done quite well in 6ish months to get some cool sculpts and concepts together but they are far from perfect, square elbow pads, boxed gun grips(what was you thinking!?) static poses, oversized guns, the tanks are pretty cool i couldnt really fault them!


1) To be blunt, my opinion is that the tanks are TOO "chibi". You know how the sisters' guns were oversized? (and the shieldmaidens before them - particularly the resins?) They did that with the tanks as well (and the turrets, and even the chassis). Put a render side by side with a photo of a predator and it just takes the thing too far to "chibi-style" proportions when a better option would be to ape the other company's proportions more closely, or if they have to be tweaked (feels like lawyer advice to me), to tweak them just slightly more towards "realistic" than "super-deformed cartoon".



Once you decided to do sci-fi you should have had another vote as basing peoples sci-fi "want haves" on peoples fantasy "what haves" was stupid as the paladins would have won hands down with a sci-fi vote!, people are calling out for Sisters of Battle in plastic and will more than likely pick up a bunch of cool proxies especially in plastic, im my opinion the wolves wouldnt have sold half as much and i think the wolves vehicles would have sold better than their minis counterparts.


2) Hoenstly, the overly neat, circular wolf pelt tabards, etc, bother(ed) me a great deal. Too neat and rounded as they were just looks wrong to my eye.



Which brings me on to the actual sci-fi minis, apart from what i already listed you need to drop the duel use of fantasy and sci-fi leg/bodies as they will not sell that good especially if another company or GW release multi-pose not/Sisters of Battle, no sci-fi sprue i know uses a "rank and file" static front facing legs and body, (if there are please point me in their direction) they need some dynamic poses like running, knelling, walking etc and have the bodies separately so they can be angled with arms for carrying a weapon 2-handed etc.


3) Agreed again. As nice as they are - what's one criticism of the Shieldmaidens that keeps coming up? Yep. Overly-static posing. It's that WHFB "Rank 'em up." aesthetic. But newer games and figures don't feel a need to stay strictly tied to only having a "standing around" pose. (with hair blowing wildly in a dozen different directions!).



Some of the pledge levels were all over the place as it was pointed out a few times during the campaign and it seemed to flavour the sci-fi crowd, even the whole campaign seemed aimed at the sci-fi crowd, leaving us fantasy guys a bit left out,


4) Funny. I felt the opposite way. I thought the sci-fi pledge offerings were (frankly) a bit rubbish with the 10-woman boxes, which was off-putting from the word go.



i said when you announced the duel campaign of sci-fi and fantasy it wouldnt be a good idea as you had to try and keep both "camps" happy and you, i and your 1st KS backers know how hard it was to have 4 or 5 faction at once and keep everyone happy, it also stops us regular Shieldwolf supporters giving you our usual amounts of cash, ie i spend @$200 in the campaign and @$200 in the PM so if you have separate campaigns for the themes you will get more money out of me/us and vice versa as we would be getting a good deal in return, personally i dont spend much at retail as i do a lot of spending on here, i like to help creators and get a good/better deal than you get in the shops, i love a good bargain!


4a) You're right on the money with keeping both camps happy, and I think that's again a real danger with going for both sci-fi and fantasy paladins. Seeing the plans for 7...
I also agree that separate campaigns will get more money out of backers than combined ones. People have limits. Though for me, honestly, I've soured on kickstarter a great deal now, and so I'm much more careful with what I back. The sci-fi just offered poor value compared to what I could buy essentially today, at retail, with my money.

5) Since September 19th, when I found out about this campaign and put $50 down, I've bought Mortarion, 2x Deathshroud Terminators, 2x Blightlord Terminators, Admech Modex, Admech Datacards, AM(Guard) Codex, 2x AM(Guard) Datacards, Death Guard Codex, Death Guard Datacards, Primaris Reavers, AoS Firestorm campaign box, 2x Blood Angels Orbital Intevention Force, 2x Stormboyz and a Start Collecting Orks box. Plus some paints and a bunch of PS4/XBox one games. And a FW order just before the 19th.

4b) Now I want to support Shieldwolf, and I know my spending patterns are ...unusual (a bit of OCD to be sure), but to offer 10 plastic sci-fi sisters with blocks for hands, oversized guns, oversized backpacks... to be delivered in a year's time (or more, because KS delays). Well, that's just not going to compete well for my money. Because that's what it is. Shieldwolf isn't a charity. I like them and want to support them, but they (or any KS creator) aren't charities. They're businesses. When I want to give to charity, I send the local animal shelter some money (and I do - and then I have to ask them to stop spamming me for more!)
KS is a two-way street, and as I keep saying, I don't expect CMON-style freebies, but come on. Don't fething insult me with 10-figure boxes of sci-fi right next to 20-figure boxes of fantasy for the same price... because as a consumer, I do find that insulting. Not personally insulting, but an insulting expectation to back that.

So the existing campaign only got $50 from me, and I happily spent hundreds and hundreds on gak that I can buy and have delivered and use right now.



Having the preview page up a couple of weeks before launching would have been a great idea as we could have pointed out a lot of the things that were wrong with this campaign but for some reason even with a few of us asking for it you put it up late one night about 12-18hrs before launch and i bet no constructive criticism was given unlike on the preview for the last successful campaign you did, why did it go up so late and was there any comments on it?


6) Absolutely correct. I can't reiterate this enough. Preview it properly or not at all. Don't half-arse it.



"I personally think they should keep sci-fi and fantasy separate and run campaigns for each of them at say 6 month intervals, no more than 1 of each themed KS running at a time so hopefully it doesnt effect each other. but can @Shieldwolf handle that sort of workload!?, it would certainly help get their factions out, if they carry on as is, its going to be 2020+ before they can flesh all their factions out!"


7) I agree on keeping them separate, but 6-month intervals is too fast. I'm also not sure how many of the fantasy female kits are supposed to be distinct armies as opposed to different units within one army, so I could see fantasy campaigns covering hopefully 2 kits at a time (or more, but realistic expectations). The single most successful campaign that SW can do right now though, would be SoB-proxies. Both on the front-end and in getting new people on board to hopefully grow "the 400" in follow-up campaigns - which then potentially benefits subsequent fantasy campaigns as well.

edit - speelings


God knows how you split the quotes up lol, so i numbered them,

1 )Yes i remember reading your post about that and nearly commented at the time, imo they dont look "chibi" not for me anyway, the tanks had too many "edges", they would have to be very "rounded" for them them to be "chibi", the wolf pelts etc were all removable which was the only thing i wasnt sold on, yes it would be good to try and get some side-by-side comparisons somehow, maybe some one who is good at "photo shopping" stuff could sort it out, just need the GW tanks on a measurement cutting pad.

Yes the money is on the sci-fi paladins for sure, it may "upset" a few of us fantasy backers who looked forward to advancing with the next fantasy theme to flesh out our Shielmaiden army, but they are a business and would be mad to not go for the "big seller", just a shame it was all "cock-eyed" this time around and like you say they could gain some new blood that could then spill over to their next KS project.

2) Yeah i didnt like them they reminded me of floor rugs, but the resin ones were ok and actually had a fur effect on the edges unlike the plastic ones which looked stitched around the edge! i hope it gets looked at like the gun grips.

3) "rank & file" is ok to a certain degree for fantasy and it is what Shieldwolf wants for their game "War is Coming" as it is a mass battle game, but even some "movement" to the poses would be most welcome, but mass battle games are dying off(apart from the historic games) and turning into skirmish games and personally i think Shieldwolf should make their minis a lot more "dynamic" as it will attract that crowd more, like i mentioned how long until Shieldwolf has the armies ready to release their rules, fantasy mass battle could unfortunately be dead and buried by then!

4) Il explain that a bit more, yeah it wasnt a good idea to split the box to 10 and not put the funding $5K higher to start with 20 all round, none of us would have been any the wiser and it would have been fair from the offset, that way the 1st SG wouldnt get "wasted" when it could have unlocked some cool sci-fi item, the value of items in the $200 pledge was pretty good and i think the sci-fi pledge saved a bit more, but who needs 100 static posed sci-fi girls,

I was in for $200 and was struggling to find what pledge/pledges/pledge + add-ons i wanted and was prob looking at doing some troop swaps with my mates to get rid of some of the 100 if i took the top pledge, i was going to let the campaign run and see what was unlocked and suggest a new pledge with less minis or a mix of minis etc, there was others enquiring too.

Keeping sci-fi and fantasy separate should be top priority as there are too many people to keep happy all at once, as for paying now and getting a year later i have no problem as long as what im waiting on is worth it and obviously turns up, i think of it as a type of "pre-order"(no not the shop type many backers think KS is)

5) Boy thats a fair bit of plastic!

6) Too true, i think it was one of the biggest mistakes Shieldwolf did, apparently a couple of backers commented on it and im not sure if they published the preview on FaceBook, personally i think at least 2 weeks before launching they should publish previews.

7) I just used 6 months as an example maybe 9 but that would be for them to figure out as we dont know their workloads etc, imo it would be Shieldwolfs best bet at getting their ranges out in retail sooner than later, but i imagine it will be a lot of work running 2 campaigns at a time and without sounding nasty can they handle it?

The Shieldmaiden army consists of multiple factions, im sure Shieldwolf will correct me if i got it wrong or missed out someone, the 'Maidens(standard troops), Warmaidens(berserker), Dragonbreed(heavies/mercs) consisting of Wolf Sisters, Sisters of Tallareum and the warriors from the east that havent been revealed yet, all those factions have monsters and other various things associated to them, the male barbarian tribe is also listed under them, that is only 1 faction and there are another 8 listed on their site, they also have elf renders kicking around too! their rulebook only has 4 factions listed in it the Orcs, Krumvaal Northern Alliance, Talliareum Ogres and the Kingdom of Talliareum (Human), so there is a ton of stuff Shieldwolf want to do.

Im very interested in Shieldwolfs response/s to all the comments on here and the KS that us backers have posted, but it might be next week as it sounds the "man-flu" has set in hard!


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/10/06 10:55:21


Post by: Smokestack


 Azazelx wrote:
 Smokestack wrote:
 Azazelx wrote:

Having written up everything I have now done above, I'd honestly skip the fantasy stuff entirely for the time being


I hope this is not the case being only in it for the fantasy stuff, and the return of most of their backers from the first one who backed a fantasy only campaign... I am sure they would still get the money they need but it would leave all of their fantasy backers out to dry...


As I've said, I'd personally happily back all four of the initially announced figures, but it's essentially it comes down to business decisions versus "vanity project" ones. As Bob said, they already have two Fantasy armies (plus the stuff in resin) and SW going all-in on sci-fi for one single KS campaign isn't exactly the overly-dramatic "leaving all their fantasy backers out to dry". I'm sure you don't believe that they would not return to Fantasy.



I do tend to be dramatic... but Shieldwolf's business model is kickstarter. So a focused scif only campaign would run 1 month then have a year before it delivers. Then if they go back to fantasy at that point (which is not a guarantee if the scifi exploded in popularity) would run a month and then have another year for delivery...So at best the fantasy people would have to wait 2-2.5 years before they got anything new to expand there interests. 2.5 years is not a small amount of time... But as you said from a success for Shieldwolf standpoint that is not so much a concern for them...

I agree with What Original Timmy said though, if they did a KS every 6 months or so, and shifted between Scifi and Fantasy, that would work... fully knowing that the fantasy would have a lower funding expectation...


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/10/06 11:40:59


Post by: RiTides


Please don't quote large unbroken blocks of text (I've added some spoiler tags above) and even the broken up quotes are getting a little excessive guys . If it's clear what you're replying to, try not to quote all of it, just the relevant parts. It makes the thread easier for everyone else to read.

Thanks all, any questions just PM me!




Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/10/06 13:09:15


Post by: djh2121


Hey Azazel and Timmy we've been chatting over in the KS comments section so I figured I would join you guys here to continue the discussion. So that you recall my posts, I was writing under the name "David Harrison" on the KS page. As a refresher, this campaign was my first time on KS, and I came into it from the 40K world.

Azazel, you're comment that SW was essentially looking for a grand slam with this campaign, when what an early stage comapny needs to focus on is racking up consecutive singles and doubles before swinging for the fences, is especially on point, and deserves to be highlighted again and again.

You both bring up very valid down-side risks of running a dual fantasy/scifi campaign. However, at least from my own subjective experience, I think one potentially upside is the possibility of crossover sales from the scifi crowd into the fantasy range. Personally, I came into the campaign looking to back the SoF faction, but, because I liked the overall aesthetic of the models so much, by the end of the campaign I ended up deciding that I would also back for SoT troop, and simply planned to re-base them and pretend they were close combat troops wielding energy weapons.

After deciding on that, I happened to be poking around SW's website when I found the lion-riders, which in my opinion, are one of the coolest and original miniatures I've ever seen. If they make an appearance in the new campaign as cavalry for the troops, then I'm probably going to pick up two squads of the four riders. At that point, I'd have something starting to look like a Talliareum army, which would probably need some orcs, or skeletons, or shield-maidens as baddies. Any of said baddies would be bought at a later date at retail from SW's sight. Perhaps I'm an exceptional case, but it's highly unlikely that I am strictly unique. Therefore, as far as organically growing "the 400", I think the process I've articulated might be a viable and realistic model. In the same way that 40K is driven by its iconic factions, the SMs, SW could use this opportunity to refine their designs and make the paladins into their iconic faction. Because this market niche is currently empty, it seems like a wide open opportunity to me. This does have some risks, but if the paladins don't end up being embraced as the core faction by community it's easy to simply bring forward a new faction to carry the banner. Ultimately what I am saying is that, done properly, an entire game system's worth of factions, can be built around a single "heroic" faction.

Having said all that a dual campaign would need to be run very precisely to achieve this synergy. I truly believe that one vital aspect to accomplishing this is some form of lore, or links to it, on the main campaign page. Basically the backer walked in the door for the SoF, and while he's there the campaign should persuade him to look at the SoT as well. As quickly as possible, the backer should be able to know the backstory of the Kingdom of Talliareum, what dragonbreds are, and when he should care about those sword-wielding, cape-wearing nuns from the middle ages. Perhaps the easiest way to accomplish this would be to simply brand all of the minis as Sisters of Faith, and explicitly state that they represent the same religious order from different ages of the same fictional world. This would also have the added benefit of providing a robust, legal defense should any IP infringement lawsuits arise. The kingdom of Talliareum is SW's original IP, and any order which serves that Kingdom would be original IP as well. The final benefit I see is that it would create a unique market niche for SW in the scifi space, namely their own in-house created fictional world, instead of being just one more proxy model company.

I think some of the risks of a dual campaign can be mitigated by ensuring that the SGs, especially the early ones, apply equally to both fantasy and scfi. Some ideas are additional head models, helmeted heads, shields/power-shields, jetbacks/more orante capes, additional religious iconography, more posing variations, additional melee weapons that fit both armies, etc. At higher levels the unlocks could give a model to both faction, e.g. an SG unlocks a new vehicle and a new monster. This wasn't possible in the previous campaign because of the sheer number of factions, seven, that were involved, but I could picture it working with only two factions. That being said, as many have pointed out, the base campaign needs to be viable on its own once it is funded. We cannot have a situation where $40K comes in to fund the paladin campaign, and SW decides to cancel because the backing didn't live up to their expectations. Backers will probably be forgiving of the last campaign's considering Angelos's explanation, but I doubt they would come back a third time around.

As an aside, regarding the SoBs, I think, given the concept work for the SoF, SW's take is superior to the original. Unless GW were to radically alter the aesthetic of the SOBs, and not merely update the models, I am confident in saying that I would prefer the SoF to the official kit. The SoBs seem off in that they lack the ornate, domineering look of an order of religious warriors. This look is something I definitely see in the SoF, and should there be any new official kits from GW, might help them stand out as a strong alternative.

Lastly, I hope that SW does give us time to preview the next campaign before it begins. There really were some day one errors that may have caused the campaign to lose potential backers, and I really do think we could help SW avoid that the next time around.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/10/21 14:17:52


Post by: Azazelx


Sorry about the late reply, djh. I got sick(er), and then went back to work sick. Now I'm just tired.

Yeah, I really don't know why they keep cancelling campaigns that have hit their finding targets. It's really not a professional look, and it turns backers off on one hand, and even sours their supporters. They need to set up campaigns that they'll be happy with if they fund at the actual target, with all backer reward options that are reasonable at that target and don't reply on doubling the target to make them worthwhile. And yeah, trying to fund seven armies worth of HIPS kits at once is just crazytown for a company the size, and with the limited following that Shieldwolf has at this time.

I also think that they need to focus more on one or the other of fantasy or sci-fi. As I've said, I'd happily buy all four of their shown concepts (provided value and tweaks were made) but it's not about me, or even you. It's about the masses outside of the 400, and going for the biggest and best target of the time. We all know that target, right now at least is Sisters. That way they grow their backer base and don't do the whole thing where they split their stretch goal rewards across two disparate lines (assuming they want to use stretch goals and unlocks to increase the overall total). Focus is what's needed. Get the sisters funded, that gets more people on board, then add heavy weapons/assaulters with jet packs, heroes, vehicles, etc and instead of 1 kit each for 7 disparate lines/armies, they might get 3, 4 or 5 focused kits that actually creates a complete product line.
One that's in demand yet unavailable.

As Shieldwolf grows, they'll also need to start replying more on the "current" stuff on offer to provide the value. With 400 backers it's no huge deal to offer the Orcs again, but at some point they begin to devalue their existing product lines. To use yourself as the example here, you're hoping that the lions will be offered at a discount in the next campaign, rather that just buying them now. I'm not having a go at you, just pointing out how offering all that's gone before in the pursuit of a bigger total now starts to devalue the existing product after awhile. I know that for all of the money I've spent on Mantic Kickstarters in the past, I think of their models (particularly the restic) as literally without any monetary value. Like, I recently bought Mortarion, and 2 boxes each of Blightlord and Deathshroud Terminators. While I got them at a discount, there's no denying that they're expensive as feth. Would I pay even a fraction of that for Mantic's models? As they say: No chance in hell. There's a time to leverage all the existing assets, and a time to tone that sort of thing down. I'm not really sure where Shieldwolf is in that equation yet, but as they grow, offering everything they've done in the past at a discount to bump the KS numbers becomes less of a smart move.

Background is something that's both valuable and useless to different people. I actually did some of the clean-up and rewriting on the lore for SW a couple of years ago (for free), but my interest/drive kinda fizzled out when they cancelled that other project which was funded. Having said that, I'm actually pretty over it when it comes to Yet Another Rather Generic Fantasy IP To Pair With Yet Another Miniatures Line But-Look-We-Have-A-Twist-Here. Let's look at it this way. Do many people outside of Raging Heroes care about their background Special Snowflake Background for their models, or do they just want Sisters, Dark Eldar and and Dark Elves? (many of whom show their boobies!)

I think that showing visual source material is a better IP protection than Special Snowflake Background. I don't think that some fiction written by the guys making some new models counts as a robust legal defence in the slightest. I mean, we all know that they're all Proxyhammer models just as we all know what 9th age actually is. Having a background that explains the space religious order of blahblah that's been written specifically to justify not-SOB models who have weapons that look just like bolters is probably less useful than showing reference pictures of a FN-SCAR-L with it's stock removed or folded and barrel shortened as the inspiration for that same weapon. Probably along with some sketches that show how that design was taken and modified. Likewise, showing pictures of Faora and a bunch of GIS pictures from anime and so on as inspiration for the space armour is probably more useful there than text telling us they they like to pray to and kill for their god who is totally not the emprah.

As for the design of the non-sisters (both types). There's hits and misses there. The brick-gloves, oversized weapons. Oversized pauldrons that belong in either War Machine or World of Warcraft (or both). I do like the ab armour, though. We never got to see the back of the models, which is unfortunate - since it means we're unable to give any feedback on what is basically 50% of the models. (given the ...uneven design choices like those hammer-hands.)

Despite the silence here, I see SW has been posting on their KS comments page.





Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/10/21 15:24:05


Post by: Nostromodamus


Repeatedly cancelling projects that have met their funding goal just tells me they are flakey and aren't willing to see projects through if it doesn't meet some undisclosed parameters.

Definitely not a company I would be willing to trust my money to in the future.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/10/21 15:45:46


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


Eh. I trust them to deliver on any completed projects. Their products are good quality. I might as well back out of mercenary self-interest even if the romance is gone.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/10/21 18:10:57


Post by: RiTides


I think they need to put in a bit more sculpting work beforehand - having a few fully posed sculpts would help a lot, and things like the enclosed hands could be easily fixed ahead of time if they show it to some people privately first and get feedback.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/10/21 19:13:40


Post by: Original Timmy


 RiTides wrote:
I think they need to put in a bit more sculpting work beforehand - having a few fully posed sculpts would help a lot, and things like the enclosed hands could be easily fixed ahead of time if they show it to some people privately first and get feedback.


I totally agree, IMO Shieldwolf should set up a group on Facebook/G+/private forum with people from outside their workforce who will provide constructive feedback on their sculpts, ideas, campaign set-ups etc, and not filled with "yes men", put them under a "NDA" if they are worried that their IP will be shown before its ready etc, im in a couple of groups like that already for boardgames and miniature games and every creator/company owner has said it was a really good idea to set it up and said it helped them loads, because lets be honest the sci-fi "expert" they took on didnt seem that much of one by looking at the sculpts ie the big ass weapons, 1 handed weapons, the mummified gun grips(what the hell was that about!) etc, not insisting that Shieldwolf at least done a poll on the sci-fi range or even try to over-ride Angelos with the facts of what consumers are after reguarding sci-fi and especially the Sisters of Battle.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/10/21 20:31:47


Post by: Original Timmy


 Azazelx wrote:
Spoiler:
Sorry about the late reply, djh. I got sick(er), and then went back to work sick. Now I'm just tired.

Yeah, I really don't know why they keep cancelling campaigns that have hit their finding targets. It's really not a professional look, and it turns backers off on one hand, and even sours their supporters. They need to set up campaigns that they'll be happy with if they fund at the actual target, with all backer reward options that are reasonable at that target and don't reply on doubling the target to make them worthwhile. And yeah, trying to fund seven armies worth of HIPS kits at once is just crazytown for a company the size, and with the limited following that Shieldwolf has at this time.

I also think that they need to focus more on one or the other of fantasy or sci-fi. As I've said, I'd happily buy all four of their shown concepts (provided value and tweaks were made) but it's not about me, or even you. It's about the masses outside of the 400, and going for the biggest and best target of the time. We all know that target, right now at least is Sisters. That way they grow their backer base and don't do the whole thing where they split their stretch goal rewards across two disparate lines (assuming they want to use stretch goals and unlocks to increase the overall total). Focus is what's needed. Get the sisters funded, that gets more people on board, then add heavy weapons/assaulters with jet packs, heroes, vehicles, etc and instead of 1 kit each for 7 disparate lines/armies, they might get 3, 4 or 5 focused kits that actually creates a complete product line.
One that's in demand yet unavailable.

As Shieldwolf grows, they'll also need to start replying more on the "current" stuff on offer to provide the value. With 400 backers it's no huge deal to offer the Orcs again, but at some point they begin to devalue their existing product lines. To use yourself as the example here, you're hoping that the lions will be offered at a discount in the next campaign, rather that just buying them now. I'm not having a go at you, just pointing out how offering all that's gone before in the pursuit of a bigger total now starts to devalue the existing product after awhile. I know that for all of the money I've spent on Mantic Kickstarters in the past, I think of their models (particularly the restic) as literally without any monetary value. Like, I recently bought Mortarion, and 2 boxes each of Blightlord and Deathshroud Terminators. While I got them at a discount, there's no denying that they're expensive as feth. Would I pay even a fraction of that for Mantic's models? As they say: No chance in hell. There's a time to leverage all the existing assets, and a time to tone that sort of thing down. I'm not really sure where Shieldwolf is in that equation yet, but as they grow, offering everything they've done in the past at a discount to bump the KS numbers becomes less of a smart move.

Background is something that's both valuable and useless to different people. I actually did some of the clean-up and rewriting on the lore for SW a couple of years ago (for free), but my interest/drive kinda fizzled out when they cancelled that other project which was funded. Having said that, I'm actually pretty over it when it comes to Yet Another Rather Generic Fantasy IP To Pair With Yet Another Miniatures Line But-Look-We-Have-A-Twist-Here. Let's look at it this way. Do many people outside of Raging Heroes care about their background Special Snowflake Background for their models, or do they just want Sisters, Dark Eldar and and Dark Elves? (many of whom show their boobies!)

I think that showing visual source material is a better IP protection than Special Snowflake Background. I don't think that some fiction written by the guys making some new models counts as a robust legal defence in the slightest. I mean, we all know that they're all Proxyhammer models just as we all know what 9th age actually is. Having a background that explains the space religious order of blahblah that's been written specifically to justify not-SOB models who have weapons that look just like bolters is probably less useful than showing reference pictures of a FN-SCAR-L with it's stock removed or folded and barrel shortened as the inspiration for that same weapon. Probably along with some sketches that show how that design was taken and modified. Likewise, showing pictures of Faora and a bunch of GIS pictures from anime and so on as inspiration for the space armour is probably more useful there than text telling us they they like to pray to and kill for their god who is totally not the emprah.

As for the design of the non-sisters (both types). There's hits and misses there. The brick-gloves, oversized weapons. Oversized pauldrons that belong in either War Machine or World of Warcraft (or both). I do like the ab armour, though. We never got to see the back of the models, which is unfortunate - since it means we're unable to give any feedback on what is basically 50% of the models. (given the ...uneven design choices like those hammer-hands.)

Despite the silence here, I see SW has been posting on their KS comments page.





Going after what the market wants is the smart thing to do especially if you have something they want!, before the sci-fi seed was planted i think their game plan for releasing their fantasy was pretty good ie roll-out female "barbarian" minis with some great "war machines" and then expanding those races, Shieldwolf has some great races on offer and i would love to see a lot of those races get expanded, yes at the moment their minis are proxies for other systems and i see no problem with that, a product that can be used in multiple settings is more of a seller than one that cant imo.

Once Shieldwolf announced they are entering the sci-fi market and showed the races on offer the sci-fi paladins are more in-line of what consumers seem to be asking for some time now, it makes financial sense to go after that market with the paladins 1st and concentrate on the sci-fi side only, have completely separate sprues from the "static" fantasy sprues and try and flesh the range out fully in the KS, once that is over personally i would like them to do the Warmaidens which have been on the books for a couple of years or so, but where will the market be! ive said it before if they could have 2 KS going but spread out enough so it doesnt interfere with each other, that would be the perfect way to cater to both their sci-fi and fantasy customers!

As for cancelling the KS, i think it was for the best as it was a muddled campaign and if they come back with a fine tuned campaign they/us will all be better for it, IMO i think it was a massive mistake to not show us the preview page, if they had we could have pointed out/help improve things etc like we all did with the preview on the last cancelled KS, it does seem to be putting some off by cancelling and relaunching but like i said if any creator does it for the right reasons then im all good with it, but yes if we keep going through this process with every KS Shieldwolf does im sure some of us regular backers/fans/fan-bois will start to get fed up! reguarding a preview for the relaunch Angelos has said in a message to me that we will see it at least 2 weeks before launching!

That brings us onto when to relaunch, not much has been said on how long all the legal docs will take to get ready in the background, which is what they seem to be waiting on before launching and in the comment section the other day they mentioned it should be done before Xmas, October has pretty much gone and imo only leaves November as December is a no-go on KS if you want a strong campaign that hits multiple SG's as there isnt enough money about, or relaunch in the new year, mid to late January after everyones wallet has recovered from Xmas.

@Mod, I think ive figured out how to do a "spoiler" EDIT maybe i havent, does it have the "spoiler" tabs and blanked out for other readers?


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/10/21 20:36:35


Post by: Mutter


You need [/spoiler] to end your spoiler ..


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/10/21 20:38:03


Post by: Original Timmy


Thanks il give it a go

EDIT: Cool i got it now, thanks again


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/10/21 23:02:10


Post by: Azazelx


They took on a "sci-fi expert"? Really? Before I make (thousands of) snarky comments on that, I'd love to read the info firsthand. Do you have a link to where that was mentioned/discussed? I'll certainly agree that the "expert" stuff seems sketchy at best. Full agreement that they need to set up a focus group of sorts made up of people that are willing to be very critical, and quite frankly - people that are willing to argue hard with SW and each other on points. Not to be argumentative arseholes, but because the campaign has the potential to make a huge difference to SW's future (not to mention at least $40k of backers' funds.) Yes-Men and Star fethers have no place in that kind of focus group, because we know their opinion already = they love whatever you show them or tell them that you'll do.



And yeah. If they wanted to keep with the original direction of fantasy kits, fair enough. If they want to add in sci-fi, then they need to do it properly, not scattershot/randomly, and be ready to adjust at the last minute (before launching) if need be. I'm one of the people that pushed for Wolf Sisters over nuns earlier this year, because they were more unique looking, because RH seemed to have that covered to an extent and were about to launch, and because of the "danger" that Celestine and the Gemini twins represented. I still think that Celestine and the Geminis represent a real danger, because GW could easily drop plastic Sisters on us any time, just as they did with the Genestealer Cults, just as they did with AdMech, just as they did with Deathwatch. The longer the wait, the more likely it is, as well. There's a "Safe" period that we're in right now with the roll-out of previous army codices for 40k, but once they're done (or almost done) then all bets are off.

I mean, what are we still missing that's basically guaranteed to have their own book?
Thousand Sons
Orks
Necrons
Dark Eldar
Tau
Blood Angels
Dark Angels
Space Wolves
Deathwatch
Chaos Daemons
Genestealer Cults

Then there's the "um, not sure" factions that may or may not get a full codex or be rolled into other books in their entirety:
Inquisition/Assassins
Knights
Harlequins/Ynnari

And then there's the Sisters (and Ministorum - also possibly combined with Inquisitors and Assassins) - along with other factions (new and old and "missing") that represent a significant number of new releases. This includes "maybe" things like Adeptus Arbites, and "very likely" things such as individual codices for World Eaters and Emperor's Children.

While I wouldn't expect any more new figures for 40k factions this year with Necromunda and Shadespire taking up the big release spots, we've got Nids and Eldar about to codex, there might be another codex release in December.

Once we hit January, though - all bets are off as far as the 40k release train. Yes there's still 6 months worth of books (based on 2-a-month) but they need to release new models within that timeframe as well. World Eaters and/or Emp's Children are probably the safest good picks, but I'd have Sisters as a third choice after those.

I think they'll do ok if they have Plastic Sisters on the market, even after the official ones are released - given GW pricing structure and the S̶a̶v̶a̶g̶e̶ Mountain Orcs apparently doing decently at retail - but obviously there's going to be a huge difference between having the only models available on the market and simply being alternative models. That particular Iron is red-hot right now, but it won't always be so.

...

The campaign was indeed a hot confused mess, but the fact that they saw fit to launch it in what was clearly such a fethed up state from day 1 was just clownshoes. Angelos suffers a bit from being too close to his stuff and unable to be objective enough about his projects or models. We had a back and forth about the sculpt quality of SW vs AoW and I eventually had to just tell him that we'll agree to disagree. SW has some nice sculpts amongst their range, but they're objectively just not on a par with AoW, and I say this as a guy who likes Angelos and Shieldwolf a whole lot more than Felix and AoW. There's a friend of mine who I do some painting for, who apparently told my wife yesterday (when I saw out of the room) that he thinks I'm one of the best painters in Australia if not the world. Now, I'm certainly decent, but I'm no way in hell anywhere close to being one of the best painters in Melbourne, let alone on any larger scale. But I'm the best painter that he knows personally, who does work for him.

That's where Angelos seems to be with his sculpts/sculptors, and apparently also with his campaign preparation and choices. That's not a good sign.

The fact that they cancelled it once funded because "numbers changed" certainly does shake even my faith in the decision making and overall planning. I mean if the numbers no longer added up 2 weeks after launching, then what does that mean for a campaign post-completion? What does it mean about the level or quality of SW's financial preparation? Now I personally think that they'd deliver even if it cost them money to do so, but I certainly see where Nostromodamus' perspective comes from, and I doubt he's the only one that feels that way.



Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/10/22 22:00:27


Post by: Original Timmy


Phew i just had to do some digging looking for any reference to a "expert", i found a couple one in a update and another was in a comment on another update, i remember seeing them as ive read pretty much every comment on the KS updates included!

"Sci-fi; while previously sci-fi was completely out of the question, we are seriously considering bringing an additional person aboard and proceed with external artistic guidance. Nothing precise is currently planned at the moment though while developing a sci-fi game has been excluded."

From update: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1273312680/war-is-coming-shieldmaidens-army-reboot/posts/1815710

"Shieldwolf Miniatures 5-time creator on May 12
@David
"snipped"... Take this with a pinch of salt since the inclusion of sci-fi has changed the inital layout I had been seeing and Angelos with his new advisor are the ones currently in charge of that so some things may have changed."

From comments in update: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1273312680/war-is-coming-shieldmaidens-army-reboot/posts/1882396#comments


While trying to find the above quotes i came across this reply to a question i asked about how many sci-fi troops per box..

"Shieldwolf Miniatures 5-time creator on May 11
@Tom
We think we have balanced everything nicely, you will see for yourselves. Infantry versions in plastic will go in twentys so same goes for the sci-fi crowd. Price might vary in retail due to us funding it and not the backers but that has not been decided yet. For the KS duration prices for either version are going to be the same. Same goes for the resin characters."

So it looked like the sci-fi were going to be 20 a box to start with, i wonder why they changed their mind!?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
I just noticed the title of the thread has changed, when did Shieldwolf change that?


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/10/23 05:48:43


Post by: Azazelx



This message was edited 137 times. Last update was at 09/10/2017 02:53:51 AM


Thanks Timmy. I'm dubious as to the quality of the advice they were given/took. Clearly I could have done a better job myself, and I doubt that I'm the only one between the people here and active in the comments.

It seems (on the surface, anyway) that the sci-fi numbers might have been changed in order to leverage sci-fi fans to pledge more $. Of course, the effect was just the opposite. As I said at the time, if the difference is $5k for a company to double the sprues, that's a joke. And not a funny one.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/10/23 07:30:28


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


 Azazelx wrote:
It seems (on the surface, anyway) that the sci-fi numbers might have been changed in order to leverage sci-fi fans to pledge more $. Of course, the effect was just the opposite.

Indeed it was. But once again we took the hit in order to secure our backers, some people will appreciate that and others will keep on questioning it. As long as we have our mind in peace we will proceed likewise again and again, I wouldn't even have to explain that everytime a creator presses the "Cancel" button it costs money to the company whereas it doesn't take a single cent from any of the backers, so how some people come to think it's a "light" decision to take is beyond me.

 Azazelx wrote:
As I said at the time, if the difference is $5k for a company to double the sprues, that's a joke. And not a funny one.

Like I stated during the project being still live, it was a $10K gap which we switched in order to stop some people complaining for the "reduced value". Not to mention our co-funding tenths of thousands of euros in order to help make this happen in the first place and very good value being there from the start. Apparently we didn't communicate that well enough, we had lots of skin put into this, there's so much passion helping drive the company after all.

I haven't made it in time to read the rest from above -I'm sure Dimitrios will respond to any questions when he gets back-, I did read about 'funding 7 armies in HIPS', I'd like to just note that this was nothing like the first KS though that opted for 5 armies; all sprues here shared common items between them (weaponry, bodies ETC), this made it much easier to bring to fruition.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/10/23 10:21:22


Post by: RiTides


To echo an idea above, what do you think about setting up a private google/facebook group or the like, to get help/feedback while tweaking the scifi models, like Original Timmy suggested?

 Original Timmy wrote:
IMO Shieldwolf should set up a group on Facebook/G+/private forum with people from outside their workforce who will provide constructive feedback on their sculpts, ideas, campaign set-ups etc
...
put them under a "NDA" if they are worried that their IP will be shown before its ready etc, im in a couple of groups like that already for boardgames and miniature games and every creator/company owner has said it was a really good idea to set it up and said it helped them loads
...
Angelos with the facts of what consumers are after reguarding sci-fi and especially the Sisters of Battle.

It seems like it could really help, and give some of these folks who are eager to contribute (and know your market!) a chance to give private feedback on sculpts, and on what will or will not sell. Worst case you close the group, best case you're able to hit the nail on the head for what the market is looking for!



Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/10/23 13:55:16


Post by: adamsouza


 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
Like I stated during the project being still live, it was a $10K gap which we switched in order to stop some people complaining for the "reduced value". Not to mention our co-funding tenths of thousands of euros in order to help make this happen in the first place and very good value being there from the start. Apparently we didn't communicate that well enough, we had lots of skin put into this, there's so much passion helping drive the company after all.


You are missing the point. It shouldn't have been 10K or 5K stretch goal in the first place. If you needed that 10K to include 20 in the box, like the fantasy unit was, then that should have been included in the base goal, and the base goal been 10K higher.

Making them 10 per box, unless we make the stretch goal, then you get 20, just kept people interested in only them from backing, waiting for the stretch goal to be hit.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/10/23 15:01:45


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


@adamsouza
This makes sense. Yet numbers told a different story, if the amount of sprues was to blame due to them being SGs and not the funding target, the project should have gone really smoothly once that was reached. Which, well, it didn't.
Or perhaps I didn't understand what you're saying or I'm missing something else? Kindly rephrase if that's the case :-)


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/10/23 15:18:11


Post by: skarsol


 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
@adamsouza
This makes sense. Yet numbers told a different story, if the amount of sprues was to blame due to them being SGs and not the funding target, the project should have gone really smoothly once that was reached. Which, well, it didn't.
Or perhaps I didn't understand what you're saying or I'm missing something else? Kindly rephrase if that's the case :-)


Most likely, people saw that the sprue count wouldn't boost until a certain level, so they hit the "Remind Me" button and went away. Had we gotten to the 48 hour point when the "Remind Me" emails go out, then possibly they would have pledged at that point, but who knows.

The people that watch the progress of a KS project every day are the creators and the people who have already pledged. You pretty much get two shots to rope in everybody else: the first time they see the project, and the 48 hour mark when they get reminded about the project (assuming it was enticing enough to get them to do the "Remind Me" on the first view). Unlocking stretch goals that boost perceived value does nothing for people who don't see it happen.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/10/23 15:41:37


Post by: Original Timmy


 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:


I haven't made it in time to read the rest from above -I'm sure Dimitrios will respond to any questions when he gets back.


Im taking this Angelos, personally i hope you take the time out to read all that has been written on here and the KS comment section since you cancelled, there is a ton of constructive criticism from a lot of passionate people who want your company to do the best it can, IMO you would be stupid to ignore some of it especially if your going after the best sci-fi miniatures out there and if the rumours are true 2018 could see GW finally releasing SOB and if you want to run with them you really need to drop the "rank and file" and the duel use sprues for fantasy and sci-fi and go multi-pose, you will only get one shot at this and do it properly or not at all, as a "half baked" effort wont stand up to the "big boys" sorry if it sounds harsh but reality is what it is!


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/10/30 09:02:15


Post by: Azazelx


Very true words from both Skarsol and Timmy.




Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/10/30 09:38:23


Post by: Mr Morden


 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
@adamsouza
This makes sense. Yet numbers told a different story, if the amount of sprues was to blame due to them being SGs and not the funding target, the project should have gone really smoothly once that was reached. Which, well, it didn't.
Or perhaps I didn't understand what you're saying or I'm missing something else? Kindly rephrase if that's the case :-)
.
Problem is that people came in looked and decided to back or not on what they could see, as others have said they might have put remind me -I do that for is not sure of and usually forget about them until reminded.

I was one of several people that commented after pledging that the front page was very confusing even after the show had been achieved - all the initial section said that you only get 10 figures compared to 20 fantasy only the show bit told you you didn't, you need to tell people what they will get if they pledge very clearly as there are so many thing competing for our money including other is.




Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/04 17:37:20


Post by: Original Timmy


Its certainly has gone quiet on Shieldwolfs front, im still wondering if Angelos has read all the comments here and on KS!


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/05 06:56:43


Post by: Azazelx


Big lessons for Shieldwolf right now on Mantic's current KS about upfront value. After the early adopters got onboard it flattened out pretty much immediately and then took 3 days to fund. Mantic's campaigns all used to fund much faster than that.





Squig wrote a good post over in the Mantic thread - mostly about Mantic but it touched well on current backer mentality:

 scarletsquig wrote:
The core error is possibly the structure itself at this point - having a price point which factors in "it will hit $500k and have loads of goodies in it so we need to make it fairly expensive" as something guaranteed.
It isn't a guarantee anymore, especially if you can't show value at the start and flounder, Kickstarter will wreck you and recovering from that takes way more effort than getting it right the first time, its why we so so many rebooted kickstarters.

Kickstarter has changed a lot over the last 2 years, in that patience levels have trended towards zero, loads of kickstarters out there all the time, people have 5-6 that they're still waiting to receive, many others that they got and never played and something has to be really good or have very wide appeal to compete.
Dungeon Saga and Terrain Crate hit the wide appeal sweet spot. Walking Dead was always going to be a guaranteed hit with the IP and ruleset that absolutely nailed it.


The bolded bits are especially pertinent for Shieldwolf...

The rest of 2017 is a write-off for good time to launch a KS. Necromunda release and Black Friday are both just around the corner, followed by Christmas. I can afford things, but all of those events trump anyone's kickstarters pretty hard. I'm sure that there are some that can still do gangbusters in this timeframe of 2017 and do gangbusters, but they're the exception rather than the rule.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/08 19:17:05


Post by: Original Timmy


Mantic sure are struggling with their KS, im backing it (those scarecrows are pretty awesome) but only following the updates and occasionally read the comments, but yeah i see what that dude is saying,

Mantic have just added a Abyssal warband to the pledges to try and get the value in the pledge and pretty much admitted they have made mistakes by not having the value or a 2 player set at the start,


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/09 14:27:08


Post by: Original Timmy


 Original Timmy wrote:
Mantic sure are struggling with their KS, im backing it (those scarecrows are pretty awesome) but only following the updates and occasionally read the comments, but yeah i see what that dude is saying,

Mantic have just added a Abyssal warband to the pledges to try and get the value in the pledge and pretty much admitted they have made mistakes by not having the value or a 2 player set at the start,


Having said that yesterday(less than 24hrs ago) their campaign now seems to be moving in the right direction at a lot quicker pace, they are just under $108k and was around $85k when i posted yesterday, so getting the value in the pledge has paid off but a week late, just showing how important it is to have the "sweet spot" actually good value to begin with and only adding more to it unitil by the end you have a deal that "cant be missed"

*1st time quoting myself, feels a bit odd lol


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/13 05:22:04


Post by: Azazelx


Looks like they had a little bump there, but it's flattened back out. A big lesson for Shieldwolf from the Mantic campaign is that of offering value from the get-go. I think the Fantasy stuff value was there, but not the sci-fi - especially by direct comparison - not by a long shot...


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/13 10:46:44


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


Good morning @Azazelx,
I'm sorry but I fail to see how the value wasn't there on our project. We don't use "fake" SGs to bring the pledge value to acceptable standards, the offering is always a very good one from the get go in our opinion as it's policy of the company. Out of curiosity, which SCi-Fi pledge do you consider low value (SGs not included)?

As for the Mantic campaign, we avoid commenting on other colleagues' doings, let alone on an ongoing campaign :-)


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/13 11:30:43


Post by: Mr Morden


 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
Good morning @Azazelx,
I'm sorry but I fail to see how the value wasn't there on our project. We don't use "fake" SGs to bring the pledge value to acceptable standards, the offering is always a very good one from the get go in our opinion as it's policy of the company. Out of curiosity, which SCi-Fi pledge do you consider low value (SGs not included)?

As for the Mantic campaign, we avoid commenting on other colleagues' doings, let alone on an ongoing campaign :-)


The major thing was as I think a number of said, the 10 models versus 20 models boxes that are upgraded almost as soon as the project as funded but still give an impression of less value - especially since they stay on the front page as 10 per box.

Having the page updated would have helped a bit but having the initial funding goal a couple of thousand higher would have been better as both fantasy and sci-fi pledges would have been on the same starting level.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/13 15:40:40


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


I appreciate the input @Mr.Morden. Perhaps we should have changed the graphics as you suggest. We did switch the 35K and 40K SGs due to people complaining for the halved number (we had admitted that during the project, here on Dakkadakka infact), so a +33% from the funding goal wasn't exactly a couple of thousand higher, it was a 10K difference besides the funding already reserved from our part.
Let's take into account the $100 pledge level for the wolves we pitched off with, which we considered the "sweet spot" pledge level. We offered
-3 boxes for a total of 30 multi-part HIPS sci-fi miniatures,
-a KS exclusive resin character and
-2 different resin tanks (pretty big miniatures for resin casting).
-A pledge which was eligible for gold level rewards.

Even without the SGs, is that really such a bad deal? Because if so, then it comes to a point where we might not be able to compete on crowdfunding platforms.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/13 15:52:56


Post by: Mr Morden


 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
I appreciate the input @Mr.Morden. Perhaps we should have changed the graphics as you suggest. We did switch the 35K and 40K SGs due to people complaining for the halved number (we had admitted that during the project, here on Dakkadakka infact), so a +33% from the funding goal wasn't exactly a couple of thousand higher, it was a 10K difference besides the funding already reserved from our part.
Let's take into account the $100 pledge level for the wolves we pitched off with, which we considered the "sweet spot" pledge level. We offered
-3 boxes for a total of 30 multi-part HIPS sci-fi miniatures,
-a KS exclusive resin character and
-2 different resin tanks (pretty big miniatures for resin casting).
-A pledge which was eligible for gold level rewards.

Even without the SGs, is that really such a bad deal? Because if so, then it comes to a point where we might not be able to compete on crowdfunding platforms.


I am not expert but just going by my reactions to the pledge levels and the layout. I was/am very happy with your previous KS and was happy to pledge based on the following:

I want to support companies like yours
I want some new Sisters of Battle models (*), the other ranges were ok and I might have gone down the root of female Space Wolves just because I dislike a lot of the current GW range for them.
I have spare disposable income

(*) However I should say that whilst I was blown away by your designs for the Sisters tanks, the infantry were, last just say I was not blown away. I have purchased some non sisters from other companies and they are beautiful so I was a little torn here - standing only rank and file is not great for sci-fi to be honest as I think others have noted.

If you had done a Sisters tanks only pledge - likely have been my first choice because they look great and were something no one else is doing! Now would you have sold similar to others - I don't know - I did flag it to some others and there was some interest on the SOB tactics thread. They are the people you want to grab hold of by the campaign, people like me are usually already looking to support you but new people need to look at the KS page and go

Wow they look awesome and I need them more than the other 10 kickstarters I have been browsing.

As you were trying to sell four armies the page was confusing - and I am afraid you invited direct comparisons between sci-fi and fantasy boxes by the layout which as you see from the complaints about 10 vs 20 happened.

Hope this helps and I am only a single voice so I may well be wrong!


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/13 16:07:58


Post by: Smokestack


Shieldwolf. From my point of view it wasn't that there was not value there, it was more the value was uneven. The fantasy pledge started with double the numbers... And was clear that although the price was the same, the value was not...

Now I was not really interested in the SciFi, but the fantasy paladins was the worst value compared to everything else... the $100 level got you troops and a leader compared to the other $100 sets that came with the same amount of troops and leader but also got tank or yetis or other extra stuff on top... The value was not the same... so, I held off upping my pledge to see if the value would increase...


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/13 21:53:16


Post by: Original Timmy


 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:

Let's take into account the $100 pledge level for the wolves we pitched off with, which we considered the "sweet spot" pledge level. We offered
-3 boxes for a total of 30 multi-part HIPS sci-fi miniatures,
-a KS exclusive resin character and
-2 different resin tanks (pretty big miniatures for resin casting).
-A pledge which was eligible for gold level rewards.

Even without the SGs, is that really such a bad deal? Because if so, then it comes to a point where we might not be able to compete on crowdfunding platforms.


For instance if you had run separate KS for each of the themes and using the same pledge levels as they did when they had a joint KS, im pretty sure you wouldnt have had many people saying it wasnt good value from the get go, as when looking at each starting themes $100 pledge level separately they do have good value saving backers anywhere between $33-64(campaign prices) depending on the theme and pledge chosen, but when put next to each other that is when it starts to look very "uneven value" especially at start the sci-fi versions were for 10 minis and not 20 like fantasy, also future free SG that will be added can not count to a "good value" starting point, they are what makes a sweet deal unmissable and more importantly there is no guarantee they will be unlocked to add "value".

Let me breakdown your $100 pledge levels across the 4 themes using the individual items KS price...

Wolf Wardens fantasy rrp $180
4x infantry boxes at $25 = $100
1x hero at $9
1x wolf pack at $15
1x yeti pack at $20

Total $144
Saving $44

'Maidens fantasy rrp $160
4x infantry boxes at $25 = $100
2x heroes at $9 = $18
1x wolf pack $15

Total $133
Saving $33

Northern Alliance box set fantasy rrp $170
4x infantry at $25 = $100
3x heroes at $9 = $27
1x yeti pack at $20

Total $147
Saving $47

Sisters of Wolves sci-fi rrp $165
3x infantry boxes at $25 = $75
1x hero at $9
2x tanks at $40 = $80

Total $164
Saving $64

Now lets have a look at what was proposed for Sisters of Taliareum/Faith pledges in update #8 Sept 25th and fill in the gaps based on the other themes pledge levels for the items you hadnt revealed but would of been added to the pledges, however I think both the revealed sci-fi Sisters of Taliareum are the full pledges.

* = educated guess

Sisters of Taliareum fantasy rrp $140
4x infantry at $25 = $100
1x hero at $9
*1x wolf pack equivalent at $15
*1x yeti pack equivalent at $20

Total $144
Saving $44

Northern Alliance vs Order of Taliareum fantasy rrp $160
4x infantry at $25 = $100
3x heroes at $9 = $27
* 1x yeti pack equivalent at $20

Total $147
Saving $47

Sisters of Wolves vs Sisters of Faith sci-fi rrp $180
6x infantry at $25 = $150
2x heroes at $9 = $18

Total $168
Saving $68

Sisters of Faith sci-fi rrp $170
4x infantry at $25 = $100
1x hero at $9
1x tank at $40
1x tank weapon upgrade at $15

Total $164
Saving $64

Now looking over those figures you can see that the value/savings are quite over the place with a greater saving of $20-$30 if you took one of the 3 sci-fi pledges, IM not sure what to make of the RRPs either, they seem random and the "value" problem occurs in each of the higher pledge levels too, i went through them when the campaign was live and im not going to do it again now, as this just took a good hr or so and i dont even know if you will read it as you havent commented on anything anyone here or on the KS said after the cancellation apart from to defend the "value" in 2 or 3 posts on here, sorry to sound harsh but if your not going to read it whats the point of any of us giving constructive criticism!


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/13 22:58:05


Post by: skarsol


 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
Good morning @Azazelx,
I'm sorry but I fail to see how the value wasn't there on our project. We don't use "fake" SGs to bring the pledge value to acceptable standards, the offering is always a very good one from the get go in our opinion as it's policy of the company. Out of curiosity, which SCi-Fi pledge do you consider low value (SGs not included)?

As for the Mantic campaign, we avoid commenting on other colleagues' doings, let alone on an ongoing campaign :-)


I feel like no matter what people say their perception of the project was, you always reply with what your perception of the project was. There is a fundamental disconnect there and you don't seem to be willing to listen. It doesn't matter if you're 100% right about the numbers. If your potential customers don't perceive it that way *at the time they look at it* then how right you are is irrelevant.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/14 00:49:37


Post by: Smokestack


 Original Timmy wrote:


* = educated guess

Sisters of Taliareum fantasy rrp $140
4x infantry at $25 = $100
1x hero at $9
*1x wolf pack equivalent at $15
*1x yeti pack equivalent at $20
Total $144
Saving $44


Actually its worse because the Sisters fantasy did not come with the wolf pack equivalent or Yeti equivalent. But cost the same... Just 4 boxes of troops and a hero for the same as 4 boxes of wolf troops, a hero, wolves and Yetis

[Thumb - 1.png]


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/14 00:53:25


Post by: Smokestack


Wolf sisters fantasy $100 pledge

[Thumb - 2.png]


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/14 01:27:13


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


 Original Timmy wrote:

[...] I dont even know if you will read it as you havent commented on anything anyone here or on the KS said after the cancellation apart from to defend the "value" in 2 or 3 posts on here, sorry to sound harsh but if your not going to read it whats the point of any of us giving constructive criticism!

Actually we have read the previous comments, we haven't commented on them though as we are still figuring out things. :-)
That, and the redesign and re-process of the new concept & renders is eating up a fair bit of our time.

skarsol wrote:
I feel like no matter what people say their perception of the project was, you always reply with what your perception of the project was. There is a fundamental disconnect there and you don't seem to be willing to listen. It doesn't matter if you're 100% right about the numbers. If your potential customers don't perceive it that way *at the time they look at it* then how right you are is irrelevant.

With all due respect we reply with what our perception of the project was because we fail to see what exactly went wrong enough to make a project like this stall at a 40K mark (besides a couple of things noted on the previous page(s) which we are reading/studying carefully the rest seemed to have been done fine. Apparently not however, so what do we keep and what do we throw away? The numbers evidently were not 100% right, so we are still figuring this out...).
Going forward without this being a well taught lesson won't work for us :-/

Edit: @Smokestack,
the 2 fantasy pledge levels you quote above have indeed different value, I can't get into details why's that but when we were doing the math and calculating the SGs that's probably the best we could offer.
My question to you though is this: for someone who is interested in female paladins and he does get a very good deal as a backer and at the same time is a part of those people who actively helped bring this to life, something that exists nowhere else in the world... does it really matter if the nordic counterparts got slightly more on the same campaign? I mean, you are not interested in the northeners, so what harm does it do to you? (mind you this is honest crude curiosity here, I'm not being sarcastic)


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/14 02:14:35


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


Isn't that human nature?

How many KS created products die because customers refuse to buy the retail release due to inferior perceived value? How many rage quit a project they love over the most minuscule of sleights?

All of them, probably.

I guess what I'm saying is you need to have someone with no idea how the sausage is made tell you if all the plates look appetizing.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/14 02:27:44


Post by: Azazelx


 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
Good morning @Azazelx,
I'm sorry but I fail to see how the value wasn't there on our project. We don't use "fake" SGs to bring the pledge value to acceptable standards, the offering is always a very good one from the get go in our opinion as it's policy of the company. Out of curiosity, which SCi-Fi pledge do you consider low value (SGs not included)?

As for the Mantic campaign, we avoid commenting on other colleagues' doings, let alone on an ongoing campaign :-)



If you don't want to listen to feedback, don't listen.

If you don't want to learn, don't learn.

I'm sick of repeating myself on very specific points.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/14 02:29:28


Post by: Smokestack


Stupid quoting from mobile device...

Try again since my first post was eaten, no quote.

I don’t like thinking that I am being penalized or getting a worse deal than others who are spending the same money. The Paladins deal was clearly inferior. Even compared to the sci-fi Paladins who once the 20 troops were unlocked would have the same number of troops, the same hero and then a tank and an extra turret on top of that. No good reason was given as to why the value was so much lower. So I went down from $200 to $1 to see if the fantasy Paladins would equalize or if they would just stay the “lower valued option”

If they had been equal to the other pledges then that would not have been an issue. But the thought that my money gets me less (and this is not appreciated as much) as the other backers kind of put me off.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/14 02:31:43


Post by: Azazelx


 Original Timmy wrote:

Now looking over those figures you can see that the value/savings are quite over the place with a greater saving of $20-$30 if you took one of the 3 sci-fi pledges, IM not sure what to make of the RRPs either, they seem random and the "value" problem occurs in each of the higher pledge levels too, i went through them when the campaign was live and im not going to do it again now, as this just took a good hr or so and i dont even know if you will read it as you havent commented on anything anyone here or on the KS said after the cancellation apart from to defend the "value" in 2 or 3 posts on here, sorry to sound harsh but if your not going to read it whats the point of any of us giving constructive criticism!


That's basically where I am now. I wrote my other reply just now before reading your post, but I concur.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/14 02:48:04


Post by: Theophony


I know you guys have a lot of pans in the fire right now, but I think the problem is too many offerings at once. Pick one, run the KS, then get that out the door and run the next. Stop cancelling, do ALL your math ahead of time and suck it up if you don’t get the zombicide levels of support. Get what you need to get to market, and let the people decide if they want to continue to support you and your dreams.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/14 02:59:51


Post by: Smokestack


Edit: @Smokestack,
the 2 fantasy pledge levels you quote above have indeed different value, I can't get into details why's that but when we were doing the math and calculating the SGs that's probably the best we could offer.
My question to you though is this: for someone who is interested in female paladins and he does get a very good deal as a backer and at the same time is a part of those people who actively helped bring this to life, something that exists nowhere else in the world... does it really matter if the nordic counterparts got slightly more on the same campaign? I mean, you are not interested in the northeners, so what harm does it do to you? (mind you this is honest crude curiosity here, I'm not being sarcastic)

So to go a little further. Yes it would make s difference. To use Mantic’s Vanguard Kickstarter as an example. They are currently offering 3 different new full warbands. Stretch goals are being offered that add to all 3 which basically keeps the value roughly the same. If they made the $45 Basilian warband a $200 value and kept the other 2 at about $80... either everyone would only get the “good value” one even if the other 2 were good value, because comparatively they are not s good value. Or the people who only wanted the 2 that are “poor value” because they are not getting a perceived good deal when compared to the “good value” one...


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/14 03:02:21


Post by: ingtaer


 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:

With all due respect we reply with what our perception of the project was because we fail to see what exactly went wrong enough to make a project like this stall at a 40K mark (besides a couple of things noted on the previous page(s) which we are reading/studying carefully the rest seemed to have been done fine. Apparently not however, so what do we keep and what do we throw away? The numbers evidently were not 100% right, so we are still figuring this out...).
Going forward without this being a well taught lesson won't work for us :-/


That pretty much sums it up doesn't it? You wont listen even when things are pointed out in exacting detail to you, despite your pretence. Anyway after the rude and hostile response from you I am done with SW and will never give you another a penny.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/14 03:02:34


Post by: Azazelx


Here's the thing. We're the backers that support and supported you. We're the backers who backed you anyway. We're the ones giving you a consumer's perspective on the flaws and drawbacks of your campaign and the ones who funded it despite those drawbacks.

How well did your campaign go? Funded but cancelled. Did not do the numbers you wanted.

So you can take our feedback and appreciate the time and effort that we put in to writing this stuff, or you can ignore it, be defensive, etc. But if you want your campaigns to do better in future, then you might want to listen. If not... well, it's not my business or livelihood at stake.

You can lead a horse to water...


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/14 09:52:14


Post by: ArtIsGreat


I was interested in the pledge level and value for the stuff I was interested in, and didn't care about anything outside that.

And goodness! Not enough for people to give their opinion, best to get immediately furious if everyone doesn't agree.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/14 10:51:47


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


@ArtisGreat
I think a lot of people however were interested in stuff that was never revealed (and naturally never unlocked).
Furious? I presume that isn't directed to us, if it is however, it's even more confusing. :-/
Baffled is a better term I think, and definitely not because of the commentary on this forum! :-)

@Azazelx
We are listening. The issue is we haven't integrated this manner of thinking under our skin (I'm not saying it's wrong, it's just... different). And apparently if we do integrate it we'll solve most of the problems that end up stalling our campaigns.
Hopefully when the draft is ready and shared with you, we can ask for more precise advice. Worked out well on the Shieldmaiden rebbot, fingers crossed it will be the same here. :-)

@ingtaer
I respect your decision but wholeheartedly don't follow where the 'hostile and rude' comes from.

@Smokestack
OK, I get what you're saying. And, while that's not how we think of it, I fully accept your reasoning behind it. And I think it's fair to say that most people would agree with your reasoning and not ours, nobody wants to feel they get "less value".
I'm sorry but we won't comment on Mantic's KS, it's just wrong for us to do so.

@Theophony
Yeah, as much as we want to fund a lot of stuff with a single go (as that's to the augmented benefit of everyone involved), we evidently lack the traction necessary to do so with one project.
I have a question, we are currently working on a relaunched project to fund just the fantasy and sci-fi paladin female armies. You suggest we leave one of the two out? Perhaps if we show the draft and the 'value' is perceived to be the same for both versions, it would work out for the better, no?


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/14 11:01:06


Post by: ingtaer


Via PM from Angelos as you should remember because you read them in response to my second to last post in this thread.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/14 12:58:26


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:


Edit: @Smokestack,
the 2 fantasy pledge levels you quote above have indeed different value, I can't get into details why's that but when we were doing the math and calculating the SGs that's probably the best we could offer.
My question to you though is this: for someone who is interested in female paladins and he does get a very good deal as a backer and at the same time is a part of those people who actively helped bring this to life, something that exists nowhere else in the world... does it really matter if the nordic counterparts got slightly more on the same campaign? I mean, you are not interested in the northeners, so what harm does it do to you? (mind you this is honest crude curiosity here, I'm not being sarcastic)


There are loads of psychological experiments that show that seeing somebody getting more treats/pay/rewards than you has been shown to generate resentment

so seeing one group of backers getting more than you for the same pledge is an active disincentive to backing the campaign

(its even been shown in monkeys too, give one monkey a grape for a task that the other gets a leaf for and the leaf monkey gets cross and usually refuses to perform the task and if the two are friends both my refuse to perform)

it also generates a perception that the campaign organisers aren't fair or reasonable (even if that's not true)

far better to either give each pledge group (near) identical rewards or if that's not possible run 2 separate campaigns


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/14 21:41:12


Post by: skarsol


 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
@Theophony
Yeah, as much as we want to fund a lot of stuff with a single go (as that's to the augmented benefit of everyone involved), we evidently lack the traction necessary to do so with one project.
I have a question, we are currently working on a relaunched project to fund just the fantasy and sci-fi paladin female armies. You suggest we leave one of the two out? Perhaps if we show the draft and the 'value' is perceived to be the same for both versions, it would work out for the better, no?


Is there any tie between the two lines? IE: Do they use the same sprues? If so, then sure, do them in a combined KS; one inherently benefits the other.

Either way, yes, show the draft, with sufficient time for people to look at it. Although if 'success' is based on stretch goals and not the actual funding value (which is apparent based on your cancellations of funded projects) then all the review of the initial project in the world won't really help.

That said, I'm not a backer for any of them as is. I've been backing your last few projects on the sole hope of getting the Arachnowraths/maidens. Why those are continually shackled to unrelated projects, I'll never guess. I bet if you made a project for just those models, set the funding point at the actual cost to get the molds made, and then used stretch goals to fund alternate heads/bodies/weapons, that it would do fine. Although I think you said elsewhere that you're just going to make them on your own, so I guess I'll keep waiting.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/14 21:57:17


Post by: Original Timmy


Smokestack wrote:
 Original Timmy wrote:


* = educated guess

Sisters of Taliareum fantasy rrp $140
4x infantry at $25 = $100
1x hero at $9
*1x wolf pack equivalent at $15
*1x yeti pack equivalent at $20
Total $144
Saving $44


Actually its worse because the Sisters fantasy did not come with the wolf pack equivalent or Yeti equivalent. But cost the same... Just 4 boxes of troops and a hero for the same as 4 boxes of wolf troops, a hero, wolves and Yetis


I was presuming that pledge would have been brought into line with the wolves equivalent pledge, but as Shieldwolf pointed out you are correct which is pretty shocking, i guess the saying is true "presumption is the mother of all F-ups"!

Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
 Original Timmy wrote:

[...] I dont even know if you will read it as you havent commented on anything anyone here or on the KS said after the cancellation apart from to defend the "value" in 2 or 3 posts on here, sorry to sound harsh but if your not going to read it whats the point of any of us giving constructive criticism!

Actually we have read the previous comments, we haven't commented on them though as we are still figuring out things. :-)
That, and the redesign and re-process of the new concept & renders is eating up a fair bit of our time.


Ok cool that is fair enough, it would have been nice to had a comment every now and again acknowledging it, like its been pointed out we have no monetary investment in Shieldwolf Miniatures the business and we can just walk away and lose nothing, where as you guys cannot walk away as you have money/time/passion etc all tied up and on the line, if things dont work out your in a dire situation

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:


Edit: @Smokestack,
the 2 fantasy pledge levels you quote above have indeed different value, I can't get into details why's that but when we were doing the math and calculating the SGs that's probably the best we could offer.
My question to you though is this: for someone who is interested in female paladins and he does get a very good deal as a backer and at the same time is a part of those people who actively helped bring this to life, something that exists nowhere else in the world... does it really matter if the nordic counterparts got slightly more on the same campaign? I mean, you are not interested in the northeners, so what harm does it do to you? (mind you this is honest crude curiosity here, I'm not being sarcastic)


There are loads of psychological experiments that show that seeing somebody getting more treats/pay/rewards than you has been shown to generate resentment

so seeing one group of backers getting more than you for the same pledge is an active disincentive to backing the campaign

(its even been shown in monkeys too, give one monkey a grape for a task that the other gets a leaf for and the leaf monkey gets cross and usually refuses to perform the task and if the two are friends both my refuse to perform)

it also generates a perception that the campaign organisers aren't fair or reasonable (even if that's not true)

far better to either give each pledge group (near) identical rewards or if that's not possible run 2 separate campaigns


Thats a goods point with the "studies" that have been done on the subject of "fairness".

If they cant keep them equal or near enough for pledge levels and SGs they need to do separate KS, otherwise one camp will feel resentment and worse case scenario is when that camp starts to leave it will cause an avalanche of cancellations, i even said it a few times when they first mentioned having the duel campaigns and im sorry to say on this attempt "i told them so"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
skarsol wrote:


Is there any tie between the two lines? IE: Do they use the same sprues? If so, then sure, do them in a combined KS; one inherently benefits the other..


Personally i think thats the 2nd biggest problem with the sci-fi range, using "rank and file" designed troops, something that is normally used for fantasy minis and not sci-fi, using duel sprues may save money in the short term but it certainly may not in the long term,

ie the rumours are getting stronger about the fabled GW "plastic sisters" making an appearance and with GW saying they are looking into adding more females into their range which certainly adds fuel to the fire, having "rank and file" "not-SOB" will fill the gap until GW finally release theirs or anyone else offering "multi-pose" "not-SOB", but thats when unfortunately i think the sales of Shieldwolfs "not-SOB" will dry up as GW will be offer "multi-pose"(not "multi-part") miniatures with plenty of options(based on all their other kits) which will be far superior over "rank and file" poses, also with doing a KS it will take 10-12+ months before they reach retail and in that time GW or someone else could beat them to market, by the time Shieldwolfs hit retail no one will wont "rank and file" sci-fi troops and the only sales Shieldwolf will get will be of the original KS backers and any resin heroes and possibly tanks/vehicles they sell at retail, leaving them with some expensive paperweights over here in the UK(the molds)


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/18 16:39:17


Post by: adamsouza


Given GWs pricing trend of keeping the plastic as expensive as their finecrap counterparts, and their comfort with releasing 5 model infantry boxes for $40, I dare say that a 20 model box of suitable sisters proxies for $40 would still have it's place in the market.

If the guns are removable, and you could easily fit a meltagun/flamer in their hands, they would be ideal replacements for troops and elite choices


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/18 17:54:21


Post by: Tonhel


 adamsouza wrote:
Given GWs pricing trend of keeping the plastic as expensive as their finecrap counterparts, and their comfort with releasing 5 model infantry boxes for $40, I dare say that a 20 model box of suitable sisters proxies for $40 would still have it's place in the market.


If it was the KS would have been a huge succes.

Imo the models looked to static, bad poses that looked like it was intended for a ranked unit. If I remember correctly there were no designs for sisters that holded their rifles with two hands. I.e standard firing position. Also the shoulderpads looked ackward.

The reality is that it is currently difficult for most companies that aren't GW, Victrix, Perry, WG to release a new plastic set and certainly a plastic set with many options.

Imo even Mantic is struggling with bringing out new plastic sets and certainly with sets that include 2-3 unique sprue frames.

Miniature kickstarters that aren't boardgames or don't offer an insane amount of mini's currently don't really make a chance anymore to get even close to $100000.

You need to wait more than 12 months before you receive your kickstarter pledge and this in a time that there are so many fantastisc mini's / games to buy right now. If you want that people want to pledge on your kickstarter the mini's should look insanly good or the value should be immense. Look at the Mantic Vanguard kickstarter... it only started going when the amount of mini's increased spectactulary.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/18 23:12:17


Post by: Smokestack


Tonhel wrote:


Imo the models looked to static, bad poses that looked like it was intended for a ranked unit. If I remember correctly there were no designs for sisters that holded their rifles with two hands. I.e standard firing position. Also the shoulderpads looked ackward.
.


True. They did say that none of the poses were final. Just the initial renders. Though I think the Shoulders and Elbows were what they were sticking with. They also made no promises but were going to revisit the weird hand guard on the rifles. They made it a point to not really comment on the "1-handed firing poses" so I think they were not likely to change... (hopefuilly now they may).

Overall I think they could be posed with enough variety to make a great unit. As long as the Heads have enough variety and they include some more weapon choices than they did on the shield maidens.

For Fantasy I really wish there was a spear option... As the lack of it really hampered what I wanted to do with the maidens.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/21 23:00:03


Post by: Original Timmy


 adamsouza wrote:
Given GWs pricing trend of keeping the plastic as expensive as their finecrap counterparts, and their comfort with releasing 5 model infantry boxes for $40, I dare say that a 20 model box of suitable sisters proxies for $40 would still have it's place in the market.

If the guns are removable, and you could easily fit a meltagun/flamer in their hands, they would be ideal replacements for troops and elite choices


I was basing the pricing on the £25 space marine 10 men tactical squads for the various legions, but yes if they bring them out 5 for £25-£35 like the new Sisters of Silence and Custodes then Shieldwolf's £22 box of 20 "rank and file" wil most probably still have a place of proxies, but imagine if Shieldwolf could make their 20 box of Sisters Of Talliareum "multi-pose" like almost all the sci-fi hard plastic sprued squad minis i have seen or own, they could be the number one seller rather than trying to pick up the scraps from GW and maybe Raging Heroes "not SoB" resin troops(as i think they are "multi-pose"), as neither of those two could match the price on 20 "multi-pose" miniatures(technically GW could but it would undermine all their other prices),

With the price of making hard plastic minis being expensive Shieldwolf will only get one shot at this and they should be striving to do the best they to take that crown, i get what they are thinking about by saving money using the same base sprue for both fantasy and sci-fi as moulds are expensive, but is saving a few thousand dollars in the short term worth it in the long term! personally i think both fantasy and sci-fi are strong enough to have their own KS.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/23 18:04:59


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


The price of all our boxed plastic sets will remain 25 euros per box, unless we change the number of minis in the boxes or alter something else. We find it a very reasonable price and we try our best to maintain that :-)

In the meanwhile we are working again on plenty of things; resculpting weaponry, tabards, head versions etc. Poses are also worked on more. Then there's the patent office, which on the contrary of the last time -for reasons we can't explain this time- is literally dragging itself for the process. We should have cleared all paperwork and secured our new designs again by December. The project unfortunately will not launch in December as it's a horrible period for KS from what we know. All the above, and the fact that 2018 will probably see us changing quite a few things compared to our 2017 schedule, baptize current status as "very interesting" from our point of view:-D

With the occasion, we'd like to inform that from November 21st 2017 FRP Games/Golden Distribution has been erased from our list of collaborators http://www.shieldwolfminiatures.com/index.php?dispatch=categories.view&category_id=71 since the American company failed to comply with the minimum requirements of our T.o.T., an unfortunate outcome in our collaboration as they had the monopoly for the distribution in the USA. Our customer base outside Europe for the time being will have to be serviced directly from our retailers or the Shieldwolf webstore.
The good news is that another European retailer stepped in to also carry our range, the Goblin trader http://www.goblintrader.es/23910100-Shieldwolf-Miniatures thus having now two different distributors from Spain.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/23 18:34:31


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
What did FRP do?

I'm not at liberty to disclose that information. We thank them for the past collaboration and wish them all the best in their future plans.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/23 20:16:40


Post by: Zywus


 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
Then there's the patent office, which on the contrary of the last time -for reasons we can't explain this time- is literally dragging itself for the process.
Patent?
Are you sure you don't mean the trademark office?


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/24 06:09:47


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


 Zywus wrote:
 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
Then there's the patent office, which on the contrary of the last time -for reasons we can't explain this time- is literally dragging itself for the process.
Patent?
Are you sure you don't mean the trademark office?


Well, my wording might be wrong but they always refer to it as patent and not trademark. The name is OBI (Οργανισμός Βιομηχανικής Ιδιοκτησίας) Office of Industrial Property and in Greek they are interested in (quote)
Βιομηχανικό σχέδιο είναι η εξωτερικά ορατή εικόνα του συνόλου ή μέρους ενός βιομηχανικού ή βιοτεχνικού προϊόντος, η οποία προκύπτει από τα ιδιαίτερα χαρακτηριστικά που έχει (π.χ. η γραμμή, το σχήμα, το χρώμα κλπ).
which would translate in something like (help me Lord, lol)
Industrial design is the exterior visible image of the whole or partial of an industrial or biotechnical product, which results from the special characteristics which it has (e.g. the line, the shape, the color etc).


Patents - allow you to stop third parties from making, using or selling your invention for a certain period depending on the type of invention
Trademarks - protect the name of your product by preventing other business from selling a product under the same name
http://europa.eu/youreurope/business/start-grow/intellectual-property-rights/index_en.htm


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/26 17:06:06


Post by: Zywus


 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
 Zywus wrote:
 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
Then there's the patent office, which on the contrary of the last time -for reasons we can't explain this time- is literally dragging itself for the process.
Patent?
Are you sure you don't mean the trademark office?


Well, my wording might be wrong but they always refer to it as patent and not trademark. The name is OBI (Οργανισμός Βιομηχανικής Ιδιοκτησίας) Office of Industrial Property and in Greek they are interested in (quote)
Βιομηχανικό σχέδιο είναι η εξωτερικά ορατή εικόνα του συνόλου ή μέρους ενός βιομηχανικού ή βιοτεχνικού προϊόντος, η οποία προκύπτει από τα ιδιαίτερα χαρακτηριστικά που έχει (π.χ. η γραμμή, το σχήμα, το χρώμα κλπ).
which would translate in something like (help me Lord, lol)
Industrial design is the exterior visible image of the whole or partial of an industrial or biotechnical product, which results from the special characteristics which it has (e.g. the line, the shape, the color etc).


Patents - allow you to stop third parties from making, using or selling your invention for a certain period depending on the type of invention
Trademarks - protect the name of your product by preventing other business from selling a product under the same name
http://europa.eu/youreurope/business/start-grow/intellectual-property-rights/index_en.htm

I see. IP law can be a bit confusing at the best of times

Patents, as noted, concern inventions. So that would be applicable if you had came up with some all-new process of pouring resin or some such technical solution, while design rights feel more like something that would be relevant to your models (which will overlap some with copyright as well).


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/26 19:58:48


Post by: Ulfhednar_42


 Zywus wrote:

I see. IP law can be a bit confusing at the best of times

Patents, as noted, concern inventions. So that would be applicable if you had came up with some all-new process of pouring resin or some such technical solution, while design rights feel more like something that would be relevant to your models (which will overlap some with copyright as well).


Looks like ShieldWolf is talking about design patents here, not utility patents. (I'd make an all Greek to me joke, but they posted a translation.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_patent





Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/11/26 23:03:46


Post by: Albertorius


 Zywus wrote:
 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
 Zywus wrote:
 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
Then there's the patent office, which on the contrary of the last time -for reasons we can't explain this time- is literally dragging itself for the process.
Patent?
Are you sure you don't mean the trademark office?


Well, my wording might be wrong but they always refer to it as patent and not trademark. The name is OBI (Οργανισμός Βιομηχανικής Ιδιοκτησίας) Office of Industrial Property and in Greek they are interested in (quote)
Βιομηχανικό σχέδιο είναι η εξωτερικά ορατή εικόνα του συνόλου ή μέρους ενός βιομηχανικού ή βιοτεχνικού προϊόντος, η οποία προκύπτει από τα ιδιαίτερα χαρακτηριστικά που έχει (π.χ. η γραμμή, το σχήμα, το χρώμα κλπ).
which would translate in something like (help me Lord, lol)
Industrial design is the exterior visible image of the whole or partial of an industrial or biotechnical product, which results from the special characteristics which it has (e.g. the line, the shape, the color etc).


Patents - allow you to stop third parties from making, using or selling your invention for a certain period depending on the type of invention
Trademarks - protect the name of your product by preventing other business from selling a product under the same name
http://europa.eu/youreurope/business/start-grow/intellectual-property-rights/index_en.htm

I see. IP law can be a bit confusing at the best of times

Patents, as noted, concern inventions. So that would be applicable if you had came up with some all-new process of pouring resin or some such technical solution, while design rights feel more like something that would be relevant to your models (which will overlap some with copyright as well).


Heh. Here in Spain you'd need to go to the “Oficina de Patentes" for either.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/12/27 15:49:56


Post by: Albertorius


In case anyone's interested, I've noticed that the Shieldmaidens and the new GW's Escher parts mix decently enough:




Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/12/27 16:02:30


Post by: Mr Morden


Spoiler:
 Albertorius wrote:
In case anyone's interested, I've noticed that the Shieldmaidens and the new GW's Escher parts mix decently enough:




oh thats good to know Nicely done


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/12/27 16:33:17


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


Oooh. That is good to know!

Mine have been having to make do with Sisters of Silence bits. These should give them much more variety!


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/12/27 22:20:34


Post by: Azazelx


Great idea - thanks for that! The Escher come with a ton of extra weapons and heads, so it's good to know that the SW figures work with them.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/12/29 17:05:33


Post by: porkuslime


Anyone know where I can pick up "10" of those Shieldwolf maidens still on sprue? I dont NEED a full box.. but if I have to, where could I find them in the USA...


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2017/12/30 12:53:27


Post by: Albertorius


highlord tamburlaine wrote:Oooh. That is good to know!

Mine have been having to make do with Sisters of Silence bits. These should give them much more variety!


BobtheInquisitor wrote:That is awesome.


Ian Sturrock wrote:Very cool. They end up looking a bit like updated "Space Amazons": http://rogueheresy.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/space-amazon-rt601-adventurers.html


Azazelx wrote:Great idea - thanks for that! The Escher come with a ton of extra weapons and heads, so it's good to know that the SW figures work with them.


Thanks! I have a boatload of these gals, so I'm always on the lookout for nice conversion fodder for them, as the regular sprues are nice and all, but really not very varied. I can use these ones pretty easily as ratskins for example, or as medieval world IG, or as post-apoc raiders.... lots of possibilities, with these.
porkuslime wrote:Anyone know where I can pick up "10" of those Shieldwolf maidens still on sprue? I dont NEED a full box.. but if I have to, where could I find them in the USA...

Unless someone ones to sell you some, I don't think there is a way. I don't really know where you'll be able to find them in the USA, sorry. Maybe Shieldwolf itself could help you?


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/01/10 10:48:25


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


 Albertorius wrote:
porkuslime wrote:Anyone know where I can pick up "10" of those Shieldwolf maidens still on sprue? I dont NEED a full box.. but if I have to, where could I find them in the USA...

Unless someone ones to sell you some, I don't think there is a way. I don't really know where you'll be able to find them in the USA, sorry. Maybe Shieldwolf itself could help you?


The USA distributor was dismissed a couple of months ago I'm afraid.
All one has to do is contact us however and we'll try our best to be of service. :-)

On another matter, we are proud to have sponsored yet another tournament, this time in Belgrade, Serbia (MMXVII Victor Singidunumi—T9A Tournament) .
While this is not really news (as many will witness that we supported almost all tournaments that came into contact with us in 2017), what makes this tournament a bit more special is that we were informed that Best Painted Army this year belonged to Mitar Stajic, which included our twin-headed dragon.
Congratulations to Mitar for the lovely work and to everyone else who partecipated in promoting this hobby we love so much, thank you!





With the occassion we'd lke to inform also for our next project regarding the armies of the Sisters of Talliareum and Faith, there will be a notification in the coming weeks to inform our Kickstarter backers who actively supported us but we'll be posting here on Dakka as well.
You will witness yourselves that 2018 will see big differences compared to our 2016-17 schedules.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/01/14 14:51:53


Post by: angel of death 007


Seems like a dead topic but are we looking to see a revamped Kick Starter? I will say I was pretty crushed when the last one got flushed as I was really looking forward to expanding my non GW sisters army, especially with some vehicles


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/01/14 23:08:12


Post by: Original Timmy


angel of death 007 wrote:
Seems like a dead topic but are we looking to see a revamped Kick Starter? I will say I was pretty crushed when the last one got flushed as I was really looking forward to expanding my non GW sisters army, especially with some vehicles


They have been in the comments a couple of times recently and left this comment after i asked about it..

"Hello @Tom and @ALL! :-)
We will be posting updates here for our next project regarding the armies of the Sisters of Talliareum and Faith (there will be a notification in the coming weeks to inform you all).
The company has decided for 2018 to implement some major differences compared to our 2016-17 schedules. We'll see how things go :-)"

So yeah hopefully soon we will hear more from them about the plans of the re-launch


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/01/15 11:50:12


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


angel of death 007 wrote:
Seems like a dead topic but are we looking to see a revamped Kick Starter? I will say I was pretty crushed when the last one got flushed as I was really looking forward to expanding my non GW sisters army, especially with some vehicles

Anything but dead, rest assured. Updates on Kickstarter will go up (probably) this month and (certainly) the next that will cover all you need to know. :-)

Edit: Finished working on this in the meanwhile and working on more for 2018.




Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/01/21 22:00:52


Post by: Micky


Guys, I remember there was talk that shieldmaidens and warmaidens would have compatible parts, good for alternative weapons and headswaps.

In light of warmaidens being backburnered for now, is there any potential for a shieldmaiden weapon kit for those of us who want to create a wider variety of figures?


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/01/22 22:08:54


Post by: Micky


Either as a half-sized plastic sprue attached to the next KS, or just a resin upgrade pack?

Something like that anyway. A Shieldmaiden/Warmaiden alternative weapon pack.

With or without arms is your call (although if they had hands moulded to weapons that'd at least make conversion easier).


Would let you finally get spears like a lot of backers wanted, and possibly more axes, daggers, etc as well.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/01/24 14:33:23


Post by: Original Timmy


 Micky wrote:
Either as a half-sized plastic sprue attached to the next KS, or just a resin upgrade pack?

Something like that anyway. A Shieldmaiden/Warmaiden alternative weapon pack.

With or without arms is your call (although if they had hands moulded to weapons that'd at least make conversion easier).


Would let you finally get spears like a lot of backers wanted, and possibly more axes, daggers, etc as well.


I think a lot of people would be pleased to get spears and extra base sprue weapons!


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/01/24 15:24:54


Post by: Prestor Jon


 Original Timmy wrote:
 Micky wrote:
Either as a half-sized plastic sprue attached to the next KS, or just a resin upgrade pack?

Something like that anyway. A Shieldmaiden/Warmaiden alternative weapon pack.

With or without arms is your call (although if they had hands moulded to weapons that'd at least make conversion easier).


Would let you finally get spears like a lot of backers wanted, and possibly more axes, daggers, etc as well.


I think a lot of people would be pleased to get spears and extra base sprue weapons!


Spears/polearms would be great. Also left ha fed weapons. It would be nice to have the war maidens dual wielding 2 weapons and for the rangers to have a weapon their offhand instead of just an empty fist. Pointing hands or arms would also be great.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/01/24 15:27:03


Post by: Hulksmash


What those three said. Spears/Polearms, extra CC weapons like axes, and some left handed weapons. A sprue of such would go a long way toward me actually building my ladies. I was seriously disappointed when there were no spears as I missed that comment in that section.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/01/24 16:23:03


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


If we get weapon sprues, I get more ladies. Simple as that.

I built a lot, swapped and traded a lot, and have actually run out of m original kickstarter supply.

Heck, a mini kickstarter for just a weapon sprue or two would be kind of cool!


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/01/25 06:45:11


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


Spoiler:
 Micky wrote:
Either as a half-sized plastic sprue attached to the next KS, or just a resin upgrade pack?

Something like that anyway. A Shieldmaiden/Warmaiden alternative weapon pack.

With or without arms is your call (although if they had hands moulded to weapons that'd at least make conversion easier).


Would let you finally get spears like a lot of backers wanted, and possibly more axes, daggers, etc as well.

Spears would have to be metal or plastic, we try to avoid doing this type of weaponry in resin when possible. And given the fact we don't work with metal it points towards plastic only.
Doing a KS for something like that is out of the question though; Shieldwolf Miniatures is going to be using KS for more substantial projects for which additional help is needed (i.e. funding a sprue upgrade is way within the company's abilities).

We have been working on adding more videos for the history of our world in the meanwhile, this is part-1 uploaded just yesterday, part-2 should be shown shortly too and has to do with the Sisters of Talliareum (our fantasy paladin faction) as we close to revealing what we have been working on the past 4 months. We hope you enjoy it as we tried giving it a more characterful narration on top of our written scripts.
Besides Krumvaal and Talliareum, we also aim to release more on our other races (Araves and Kingdom of Hell leading the rest) who have also been crying for attention. Comments and questions are welcome. :-)



Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/01/28 15:26:11


Post by: Original Timmy


Posted over on their FB yesterday along with this comment in the comment section of pic.

"Shieldwolf Miniatures We'll be posting an update next month with ALL you'll need to know.
Edit: Stay tuned and you will NOT be dissapointed."



https://www.facebook.com/415230871893106/photos/a.416382308444629.97141.415230871893106/1575074515908730/?type=3&theater


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/01/28 16:37:20


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


You see fur, I see scales.

Either way I'm sure we all hope it's plastic regardless!


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/01/28 16:54:16


Post by: Original Timmy


 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
You see fur, I see scales.

Either way I'm sure we all hope it's plastic regardless!


I can sort of see what your saying looking at the neck, but looking at the right elbow and left shoulder that certainly looks like fur imo!

At a guess id say they will be resin like the orges and trolls Shieldwolf sell


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Theophony wrote:
Bear/wolf men in armor?


Thats my thoughts, i wonder whether they are "were" versions or just straight up anthropomorphic versions!


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/02/02 17:24:26


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


@Bob
Well, the idea was to make it make it sound more "futuristic" :-)


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/02/02 17:35:29


Post by: JimmyWolf87


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Why that voice?


Stephen Hawking accidentally set his voice synthesizer to 'fabulous'.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/02/02 17:53:23


Post by: Albertorius


Oh my goodness, that was hilarious ^_^


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/02/02 19:27:57


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
@Bob
Well, the idea was to make it make it sound more "futuristic" :-)


But modern synthetic voices sound more human. In the future, computer narrators will sound like Sam Neill or Morgan Freeman.

And why the future? Your narration begins in the past and establishes the Sisters as an unbroken link to the past. Why not some venerable voice? Max Headroom Von Sydow?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But really, even if you want a robot voice, why that one?


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/02/03 07:32:04


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
@Bob
Well, the idea was to make it make it sound more "futuristic" :-)


But modern synthetic voices sound more human. In the future, computer narrators will sound like Sam Neill or Morgan Freeman.

And why the future? Your narration begins in the past and establishes the Sisters as an unbroken link to the past. Why not some venerable voice? Max Headroom Von Sydow?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
But really, even if you want a robot voice, why that one?


Well, that was the choice made when we put this together, what's done is done "-)
We toyed with the idea of having our races evolve from the fantasy Shieldwolf to the sci-fi setting we are working on, but we prefered an alternative evolution of our world's history instead. Starting from the medieval and renaissance eras, things apparently worked out differently and thousands of years later earth (and space) aren't what we think of them today. We started with Italy but we are going to be evolving through the other nations as well; if things pick up fast enough, the 2nd nation will be revealed and fully developed by early 2019, thus new tanks, new troops, new characters etc etc.
End of the month we will be revealing everything we have planned out -along with what you're not expecting :-)


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/02/03 12:58:34


Post by: Nostromodamus


Sounds like an autotuned chipmunk.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/02/03 15:08:51


Post by: kestral


I like the voice just fine. Fancy voices and really functional voice tech is for games like Infinity with the net, and tofu shops, not games with nuns with guns.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/02/03 16:17:25


Post by: Original Timmy


 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
@Bob
Well, the idea was to make it make it sound more "futuristic" :-)


But modern synthetic voices sound more human. In the future, computer narrators will sound like Sam Neill or Morgan Freeman.

And why the future? Your narration begins in the past and establishes the Sisters as an unbroken link to the past. Why not some venerable voice? Max Headroom Von Sydow?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
But really, even if you want a robot voice, why that one?


Well, that was the choice made when we put this together, what's done is done "-)
We toyed with the idea of having our races evolve from the fantasy Shieldwolf to the sci-fi setting we are working on, but we prefered an alternative evolution of our world's history instead. Starting from the medieval and renaissance eras, things apparently worked out differently and thousands of years later earth (and space) aren't what we think of them today. We started with Italy but we are going to be evolving through the other nations as well; if things pick up fast enough, the 2nd nation will be revealed and fully developed by early 2019, thus new tanks, new troops, new characters etc etc.
End of the month we will be revealing everything we have planned out -along with what you're not expecting :-)


How will the Wolf Warden/sisters viking influence work with the new news that the sci-fi sisters are originating from Italian renaissance era :/


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/02/03 17:13:05


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


"There are no wolves in Venice."

Wet Lamborghini growl.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/02/03 17:51:36


Post by: Nostromodamus


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
"There are no wolves in Venice."

Wet Lamborghini growl.


I just finished Prospero Burns


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/02/21 22:08:13


Post by: Original Timmy


A few more teasers that were recently shown on FB







Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/02/21 22:35:42


Post by: JimmyWolf87


 Original Timmy wrote:
A few more teasers that were recently shown on FB







The lack of backpack on the fantasy variant just accentuates how massive the shoulder pads are. Unbalances the model a bit In my opinion and makes the pose a bit more awkward looking than it possibly is. The problem is really pronounced when the arms look really long and very skinny.

Some sort of fur style decoration for the cloak around the shoulders and neck would set that off quite nicely.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/02/21 22:56:22


Post by: Galas


That sister of faith is much much better than the older ones with the strange box-hands!


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/02/22 00:10:26


Post by: Zywus


Looks good, but perhaps slim down the shoulderpads a bit?


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/02/22 00:45:42


Post by: Nostromodamus


Necks also seem a bit long, but absolutely an improvement over the other ones.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/02/22 02:34:00


Post by: PourSpelur


Is her hand bigger than her head?
Please be a perspective issue because I'm really excited for my space nuns.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/02/22 08:52:28


Post by: schoon


Agreed that the shoulder pads are currently a bit oversized, but all in all good.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/02/22 10:05:21


Post by: Mr Morden


The Sister of Faith is really good

The fantasy sister seems to have a pair of two handed weapons?


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/02/22 13:10:31


Post by: Mymearan


They looks pretty good! Agree with

- Necks are too long, shouldn't stick out like that
- Shoulderpads WAY too big and it's made worse by the angle they're sticking out. I'd suggest looking at Sisters of Silence for inspiration.
- Not a fan of that elongated, thin Bolter nozzle, I understand it needs differentiation from the GW Bolter but I'd prefer other details be changed.

Otherwise I like 'em!


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/02/22 13:48:38


Post by: StygianBeach


I agree with the above.

They look good, but shoulder pads are too big, and the Talliareum Sister is holding a 2 handed hammer in 1 hand.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/02/22 15:04:00


Post by: RiTides


I'm surprised at the positive feedback for the Sisters of Talliareum render (the first one). It looks very awkward to me . The Sisters of Faith render is much improved from before, though!


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/02/22 16:00:00


Post by: Ghiest1


Those shoulders.... I am reminded on Chronopia The old fantasy range from the folks at Mutant Chronicles (Target Games).


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/02/22 17:41:49


Post by: Original Timmy


Yeah they look like they still suffer from giraffe necks but thats solved quite easily with a pair of clippers, the hands on the guns are a big improvement and the shoulder pads on the fantasy one look way too big but ok on the sci-fi one imo, i guess they will stay that way if they are still going ahead with the duel kit!



Automatically Appended Next Post:
PourSpelur wrote:
Is her hand bigger than her head?
Please be a perspective issue because I'm really excited for my space nuns.


I think its perspective as the fantasy hands look fine


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/02/22 19:14:15


Post by: Azazelx


For many of the reasons listed above, they look like they would be good with a bit of work, rather than good out of the box.

Huge improvements on things like the carbine and 2-handed grip, though. I don't like the elongated barrel, either, but it looks like it'll clip off easily, and then provides SW with another small "not a copy of that other gun" point.

Proportions look all over the shop, though. I'd suggest new screengrabs of the renders. Zoom out a little to get rid of the "fish-eye" effect and show them from a more even perspective, not the low-angle "heroic shot" one. Then we can see what they would actually look like a little better.



Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/02/22 19:31:42


Post by: primalexile


 Mymearan wrote:
They looks pretty good! Agree with

- Necks are too long, shouldn't stick out like that
- Shoulderpads WAY too big and it's made worse by the angle they're sticking out. I'd suggest looking at Sisters of Silence for inspiration.
- Not a fan of that elongated, thin Bolter nozzle, I understand it needs differentiation from the GW Bolter but I'd prefer other details be changed.

Otherwise I like 'em!


100% agree with this.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/02/22 20:10:04


Post by: Original Timmy


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Are the shoulder pads optional?


At a guess yes, as it would be a bitch to make a metal mold for them if attached to the main body, Hopefully someone from SW will pop in soon and enlighten us


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/02/24 20:25:22


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


Hi guys!

We are working on the official announcement early next week (as this has got really really close now) so apologies if we haven't addressed any concerns here.

Necks are shorter than what the render shows, the render revealed would have not shown the full face and kinda ugly so we photoshoped the image. I will try uploading a comparison pic but if you have seen the Shieldmaiden sprue then calculate that the neck ballpoint will be almost half of what the Shieldmaiden one was. The heads themselves will be exactly the same size as the nordic girls.
Guns were worked a lot on and follow the design you see, more of them will be revealed.
Shoulderpads are optional but will be at this length. We'll be showing more pics (including pics of resin minis) to illustrate better how both sci-fi and fantasy versions look.

I think I answered everything :-)
Thank you for your interest and support.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/02/25 18:18:20


Post by: Original Timmy


 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:


Necks are shorter than what the render shows,


Does that mean the necks are shorter than the 'Maidens necks?


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/02/25 19:18:28


Post by: Rosebuddy


Will there be helmeted heads as well?


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/02/25 19:24:02


Post by: Valhallan42nd


I know I've seen some Malifaux renders that look strange and out of proportion in the render, but look fine at 32mm. Perhaps the shoulder pads will be the same. I'll reserve judgement until I see them in the flesh.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/02/28 13:43:00


Post by: Kawauso


Wow. Those look really, really nice...
Can't say I prefer the more "practical" take on an Exorcist versus the insanity of the ol' pipe organ (which I love) but...

Those are some damn nice-looking minis. In resin/plastic. At pretty reasonable prices.

I may finally bite the bullet and start an SOB army, even though I've been holding out for ages for GW to get around to them...


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/02/28 13:47:41


Post by: Mr Morden


Looks good Some really nice looking models.

Great tune too.

Look forward to pledging.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/02 11:44:19


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


Thank you! :-)

I would like with the occassion to answer some questions publicly since we got emailed or messaged on Kickstarter on a couple of things, so posting here might help. If you have any more questions we'll happily drop by here next week to check and answer them to our best. (with pics when possible)

-We won't be using a "cheaper" or whatever other manufacturer nor going to China. Both plastic kits will be manufactured again at Renedra.
-Pricing will be very friendly for those pre-ordering, you'll see for yourselves.
-The sci-fi weaponry illustrated in the artwork will match that of the renders so it's (very) apparent they belong to the same army.
-The Matriarchs are huge compared to the normal Infantry.

Once again, we appreciate the positive response and are looking forward to Monday. Have a lovely weekend! (cloudy here but we really couldn't care less, it's sun shining where we stand) :-D


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/02 21:30:35


Post by: Azazelx


Thanks for posting here guys. Will sprue shots be available for those of us who would like to pre-order? I'm not 100% sold on the renders, and while I can understand your rationale, I like to see what I'm ordering before I order it.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/02 22:05:19


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


So... no Kickstarters? I like Kickstarters? All the highs and lows and everything involved in them.

I too would like to see sprue layouts prior to plunking money down.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/03 03:54:01


Post by: ArtIsGreat


Lurv the medieval torches hanging off the side of those tanks!


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/05 17:06:18


Post by: angel of death 007


Liking the pre orders that are up. One question, is there a way to add the sisters sci fi tanks to any of the pre order packages? I see the one has two tanks but I might want in the neighborhood of 4.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/05 17:40:26


Post by: Mr Morden


angel of death 007 wrote:
Liking the pre orders that are up. One question, is there a way to add the sisters sci fi tanks to any of the pre order packages? I see the one has two tanks but I might want in the neighborhood of 4.


Have I mssed a KS email? Ah ignore - Been on website


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/05 17:46:06


Post by: Nicky J


 Mr Morden wrote:
angel of death 007 wrote:
Liking the pre orders that are up. One question, is there a way to add the sisters sci fi tanks to any of the pre order packages? I see the one has two tanks but I might want in the neighborhood of 4.


Have I mssed a KS email?


I haven't seen one - they just seen to have updated their store with the items:
http://www.shieldwolfminiatures.com/index.php?dispatch=categories.view&category_id=83

no real details about weapon options, etc though. hmm.
no sprue shot = no purchase for me, I think.
I';m sure we'll get official updates from shieldwolf soon though


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/05 17:48:05


Post by: friareriner


Is the bonus sprue mentioned more Sisters or more options?


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/05 18:00:05


Post by: Mr Morden


 Nicky J wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
angel of death 007 wrote:
Liking the pre orders that are up. One question, is there a way to add the sisters sci fi tanks to any of the pre order packages? I see the one has two tanks but I might want in the neighborhood of 4.


Have I mssed a KS email?


I haven't seen one - they just seen to have updated their store with the items:
http://www.shieldwolfminiatures.com/index.php?dispatch=categories.view&category_id=83

no real details about weapon options, etc though. hmm.
no sprue shot = no purchase for me, I think.
I';m sure we'll get official updates from shieldwolf soon though


I have ordered a big sisters army - I liked their last stuff and money is doing nonthig in the bank.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/05 18:17:12


Post by: Galas


I really really want to buy some boxes, like 40-60 sisters, but... personally I would prefer to see the layout of the sprues first!


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/05 18:55:30


Post by: Smokestack


So the 2 box level with 2 resin characters is around $75 us. During the kickstarter 2 boxes and 1 character was $50 us. And there are no stretch goals here... And delivery is estimated at October. So we don't get updates or the ability to give feed back while its being developed.

It does come with free shipping though. I think I am probably out.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/05 19:05:53


Post by: Original Timmy


Im hoping they add the resin units, heroes and tanks as separate purchases as il certainly buy those, but im also interested in seeing the sprue and more mini renders before committing to troops


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/05 21:03:41


Post by: angel of death 007


I would really like there to be like a 40-60 sister option with 4 tanks. That is where i think my buy in would be.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/05 22:39:33


Post by: rayphoton


Man you can't beat the price though. Its basically about 2 USD a miniature. AND they have a track record of good stuff.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/06 02:44:53


Post by: Azazelx


Did anyone notice what the timeframe for the pre-orders is? i.e: When they close?

Also, any chance of sprue shots? Since this is a pre-order of retail product with all of the pretense of KS (KS is not a store, etc) pushed aside, I very much want to see what I'm buying before I'm willing to lay my cash down.

The shieldmaidens were/are good, but not entirely what was shown during the KS campaign, ans given my qualms about aspects of the last Sisters design during the KS, and those freaky shoulderpads, I absolutely do want to see the sprues and more detailed renders first.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/06 15:14:58


Post by: Albertorius


Yeah, this time I'd rather see the final sprue layout beforehand.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/06 16:00:18


Post by: Elbows


If done right, this could be a huge deal. I don't think I've any interest in SoBs, but I could be convinced. Would have to see sprues, etc.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/07 22:37:40


Post by: Original Timmy


For those not on KS, heres the latest update with a few 3-ups of shields and guns also answers a few questions that have been asked, il post them here too.

"Q: Why did you choose to avoid Kickstarter?
A: As we wrote above, we have a perfect track on Kickstarter. We have always delivered what we took money for. Some minor hiccups like minimum delays or miscommunication took place but the general atmosphere has always been very positive.
We explained this before, evidently not very well :-)
We chose this path for various reasons, here are some:
-Because, while with your help we could have created 3+3 different armies instead of the 1+1 we are creating now, we risk creating nothing at all.
-Because this would have gone till Summer 2019 when we can do it faster.
-Because currently this is by far the best value for money anyone can offer, cost wise, quality wise, delivery wise (to our knowledge at least, we know of nobody that can beat what we are creating and offering). If it works for us and it works for you, we are all winning here.

Q: When will delivery take place?
A: We have every reason to believe delivery will be if not completed, fully commenced by Oct. 25th, 2018 as stated under every pre-order of our webstore page.

Q: What weapons will be included for the Sisters of Faith?
A: We strive to make each plastic kit better than the previous one. People in our previous kit asked for more weapons; we have designed this science fiction kit to be supplied with heavy flaming guns, heavy plasma guns and heavy machine guns, but we are unsure how many in number and how many of each version will make it in each box separately. Surely a minimum of one each, that's certain. Simpler machine and flaming guns should be abundant. A hammer, a sword perhaps too.

Q: What weapons will be included for the Sisters of Talliareum?
A: Swords, hammers and shields.

Q: Can we add more tanks, Griffantropii or Matriarchs to our pledges?
A: We got messaged on this and thought (again) about it. Unfortunately this tilts logistics and risks to cause us delays when arriving at the packaging procedure (not to mention augmenting possible mistakes due to human factor), so the responsible thing to do is decline knowing we can't have everyone happy. We hope the generous discounts you are receiving makes up for that.

Q: How long will the discounted pre-order period last?
A: We can't answer this yet, we can reveal however that one month will be the minimum as some people have messaged us asking us to hold on till early April. So sure, you can count on that."

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1273312680/war-is-coming-warmaidens-and-dragonbreds/posts/2131374


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So no separate resins purchasable makes Timmy a sad man :(


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/08 00:04:01


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


I'm sure they will be sold separately is tarting in November.


What is that first sister holding in her left hand?? It looks like the part of a horse contestants have to eat on Fear Factor.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/08 07:48:35


Post by: lord_blackfang


Yeah I'm interested, but I'm not buying an army based off of two renders that even the authors say aren't accurate.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/08 15:02:42


Post by: djh2121


It appears the general consensus is that the pre-order is interesting, but lacking in needed detail. I'd have to agree. To put it terms perhaps a bit to harsh it seems we don't know exactly what we are pre-ordering, when we can pre-order it, or the cost to pre-order vs buying normal retail. I think the more SW can do to address these gaps in our knowledge the more motivated I might feel to place a pre-order. I hope this bit of feedback helps.

p.s. I think a careful rewrite of the Laura package is in order. Without careful reading it's not clear that package includes three vehicles (two tanks + pillar of faith), and Laura seems less worthwhile without this information.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/08 18:57:46


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


Hello everyone,

we have had a bit of an initial overflow of work so only today we started re-connecting with the forums. I will try my best answering your questions, I apologize in prioris if I miss anything just point it out, I certainly won't avoid anything on puspose and will try to be as clear and helpful as possible. :-)

 Azazelx wrote:
Did anyone notice what the timeframe for the pre-orders is? i.e: When they close?
We haven't decided yet due to our main priority is making sure everything is on track to deliver on time and we are focusing our energy there. It will be open minimum by April 5th.
 Azazelx wrote:
Also, any chance of sprue shots? Since this is a pre-order of retail product with all of the pretense of KS (KS is not a store, etc) pushed aside, I very much want to see what I'm buying before I'm willing to lay my cash down.
Fair argument but the tooling is going to take a few months I'm afraid, if the sprues were readythen we'd have gone straight to retail and there wouldn't be a discounted pre-order like the one running now.
 Azazelx wrote:
The shieldmaidens were/are good, but not entirely what was shown during the KS campaign, ans given my qualms about aspects of the last Sisters design during the KS, and those freaky shoulderpads, I absolutely do want to see the sprues and more detailed renders first.
And that's exactly the reason we are very cautious in not showing absolutely anything that might for whatever reason NOT make it to the final sprues. People having seen what we make can relatively safely presume there will be bodies, tabards, arms, weaponry (more than the Shieldmaiden kit), heads, a few ornaments etc on the sprues of the final product. As for the quality, we have no reason to doubt is going to be anything less than what was delivered by now.

djh2121 wrote:
It appears the general consensus is that the pre-order is interesting, but lacking in needed detail. I'd have to agree. To put it terms perhaps a bit to harsh it seems we don't know exactly what we are pre-ordering, when we can pre-order it, or the cost to pre-order vs buying normal retail. I think the more SW can do to address these gaps in our knowledge the more motivated I might feel to place a pre-order. I hope this bit of feedback helps.

Your opinion is very rational and appreciated. It's true we haven't provided too many details but (in our way of thinking at least) that's also why we are ultra-discounting the deals though, to reward those who still believe we'll pull this through nicely without them having seen the final product. To give an idea, each Matriarch is going to retail around 20-25 euros, so that alone is like more than half of what the Elisa and Isabella levels cost.
djh2121 wrote:
p.s. I think a careful rewrite of the Laura package is in order. Without careful reading it's not clear that package includes three vehicles (two tanks + pillar of faith), and Laura seems less worthwhile without this information.

The Laura level doesn't include three tanks thought, it includes two. The Pillar of Faith is an additional kit that can be placed atop one of the two versions to make it a larger version, it's still two tanks in the kit however. You can safely calculate each tank will not go below 45 euros retail.

friareriner wrote:
Is the bonus sprue mentioned more Sisters or more options?
More Sisters. Also, with the occassion, allow us to clarify that the bonus sprue is only at Tier-1 and not every box of the offers.

 Smokestack wrote:
So the 2 box level with 2 resin characters is around $75 us. During the kickstarter 2 boxes and 1 character was $50 us. And there are no stretch goals here... And delivery is estimated at October. So we don't get updates or the ability to give feed back while its being developed.
It does come with free shipping though. I think I am probably out.
A rational posistion which I respect but I'd like to clarify that during the KS the boxes included 10 minis and not 20. On top of that we are not having parts cast in resin, the sprues will allow everything to be full plastic. Granted, there were stretch goals. But we as you too noted offer free shipping to counterbalance that plus shortened the delivery period by 4 months.


I think I answered everything, we'll be back next week when work rythms will hopefully allow us to interact with more time in our hands. Thanks all, comments and questions are as always very welcome! :-)


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/08 21:01:34


Post by: djh2121


Thanks for the reply SW. Perhaps the fact that I still misunderstood the contents of the Laura package, despite reading it several times, is evidence enough of its lack of sufficient clarity to warrant a bit of editing?

Also, I'm glad to see that you've given some hard numbers as to the discount on offer. I certainly respect that you want to reward the customers who have the most confidence in your business. That is quite commendable. I'm very much looking forward to seeing the size comparison of the matriarchs to the standard troops as was mentioned in the comments to update 15 on KS. Since this would be my first time purchasing from SW and the details are, as you agree scant, I'm looking over all of the available information very carefully before making my decision.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/08 22:41:36


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


@djh2121
We rely mainly on Angelos' editing to be honest, he holds a cambridge university certificate of proficiency in english so mostly we count on him. If you spot any mistakes, it's on him! :-p
Seriously now, if you have an alternative way you feel would help users comprehend the Laura option best, by all means we would appreciate very much if you send it to us, english is not our native language after all! :-D

As for the size comparison pictures with a Matriarch to show their size, I think we are very close to posting an advanced WiP next to another mini we are also sculpting, most probably early next week.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/08 22:57:40


Post by: Sentionaut


I've never purchased from Shieldwolf before - it sounds like all these items, specifically the tanks, will be available for individual purchase at a later date? I'd love to buy several Pillars of Faith once they're available


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/08 23:12:48


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


Thank you @Sentopnaut.
Yes, the items will be later made available via our webstore individually (the fantasy Griffantropii will go in packs of three), but the pre-orders we are currently taking will have to ship first before normal retail is available.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/08 23:20:39


Post by: djh2121


Happy to help:

The paladin spirit lives within you! This is the ultimate army you can field in space battles! Laura contains of 80 (eighty) hard plastic multipart Sister of Faith. The sheer fire power of this massive force will overwhelm even the most hardened of enemies.

To help oversee your victory, your Sisters of Faith infantry will be led by 2 (two) polyurethane resin Heroines of Faith as well as a Sister of Faith Army Banner Bearer. The bearer casually holsters her gun while hoisting the army’s banner high and lecturing her foes, certain that her faith will protect her.

In case this avalanche of bodies doesn't suffice, this army also fields two tanks! The tanks are supplied with additional parts with which to customize them. For example, you can build one to carry a flaming gun, the "Katharsis" variant, or even a rocket launcher, "The Preacher" variant.

As a last sweet touch, an extra kit is supplied with which you can convert one of the tanks into a multi-level "Pillar of Faith" variant. The "Pillar of Faith" is a towering tank with a crew member popping out from the open hatch to overlook the destruction and dismay delivered to all those who stand against the Sisters of Faith.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/09 00:35:14


Post by: angel of death 007


Only two tanks with no options to add more and you have to go basically all in to get them? I have no problem spending the $200 but two tanks is just really weak.

I may have to stay out of this one, doesn't fill the bill for the type of army I would want to field and having to double down would be really expensive just to get what I need with way too many extra sisters if I went for double to get the four tanks I need.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/09 03:20:07


Post by: Hanksingle


So, some of this looks really cool, but the website, and some of these responses, have an air of evasion about them that isn't much salved by the 'canceled funding' thing. I love the concept, and what I can see of some of the minis looks good - though the heavy machine gun sister barely looks like part of the same line as those heroine models - would just like more to judge by.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/09 07:28:34


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


@djh2121
That has been highly appreciated :-D
Thank you very much, the text has already been updated!

@angel of death
Two tanks with 3 different options, 80 multi-part plastic minis and 3 resin characters. For 160 euros and free shipping worldwide. I fully agree with you it might not fit your needs (as you naturally know best what you'd like included in your army, no debate there!) but we find it anything but 'really weak as an offer'.
Funny fact: Actually there were initially 5 tiers planned, there was the 260 euros one. I take it that would be the "all in" level. We decided to drop the Level-5 for both fantasy and sci-fi, trying to keep things simple. :-)

@Hanksingle
I won't argue with anyone requesting "more info, pictures etc". We will be showing more things as we go ahead, we simply can't risk showing anything that won't make it into the sprues, make a mistake once, it can happen, make it twice, nope. Good intentions on preorders don't count when taking in people's money and trust.

What I cannot allow to let pass by without commenting is the canceled funding thing (on which we can perhaps debate for hours and hours). We are people who deal and try fixing any issues, we don't look the other way, that's not us. From our point of view, on the "Warmaidens&Dragonbreds" we secured the backers first and secured the company second, everyone safe. It was the right thing to do. Did anyone lose money on this? Yes obviously Shieldwolf did, nobody else. Did everyone involved, including the backers lose time? Yes. We apologise for that and we keep on pushing on creating, not abbandoning our effort and the trust of the backers behind us. Are we blameless? No, there were mistakes in the structure of the project, we guess that's also why there's the cancel option on the platfrom itself. It is beyond our comprehension how we even have to explain ourselves more than we already have, Angelos wrote a very detailed update to why the project ended, I can find it and link it for you if you like. But Kickstarter projects which hit high numbers and cost people money but completly failed to deliver what was promised in any terms (quality, timeframe, minis etc) they are... successful. Sorry, that's not the way we see it, but we won't make the difference in changing kickstarter nor any crowdfunding platform for that matter, so we simply prefer to remain honest with the people who interact with us. Do we have a 100% track record in delivering what we take money for? Yes. We mean to keep it that way.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/09 19:55:07


Post by: Hanksingle


I appreciate the explanation. I'll certainly keep my eyes open for what gets posted next. Good luck!


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/09 22:42:47


Post by: angel of death 007


 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:

@angel of death
Two tanks with 3 different options, 80 multi-part plastic minis and 3 resin characters. For 160 euros and free shipping worldwide. I fully agree with you it might not fit your needs (as you naturally know best what you'd like included in your army, no debate there!) but we find it anything but 'really weak as an offer'.
Funny fact: Actually there were initially 5 tiers planned, there was the 260 euros one. I take it that would be the "all in" level. We decided to drop the Level-5 for both fantasy and sci-fi, trying to keep things simple. :-)


Not going to disagree with you. The value is definately there and had this come out prior to Raging Heroes TGG2 kickstarter I would be all over it. Having said that I got my infantry built up including my replacement for seraphim as well. I would like a little more rank and file in the range of 20 ish troops since I already have around 40 regular infantry models. The main need is tanks basically 2x immolators and 2x exodists to fill out my army. The resin models would fit well for heros. So yes the offer is good, really good to be honest in comparison to what I paid for my TGG2 sisters, however, having already made that purchase what you are offering doesn't fit my particular needs.

If there was a 40 infantry, with heros and 4 tank option that would be my niche. Your tanks and models look fantastic but dropping $200 on two tanks and additional infantry with no way to add the additional two tanks is where my issues lie. I think you are missing your mark by only offering one option that only offers two tanks. As even someone wanting to start a Sisters style army is going to be looking at minimum 2 transports and 2 exorcists and although they can use rhinos immolators are too good of an option not to have.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/09 22:58:54


Post by: MattW


Shieldwolf, Victrix miniatures often post a digital render of a sprue layout months ahead of actual production. Any chance of that here?

I’m not putting money down when I don’t know what I’m buying.




Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/09 23:35:38


Post by: djh2121


SW, I do believe angel of death's point is worthy of consideration. Perhaps eighty infantry units is a bit much for sci-fi models that are unlikely to see use as a horde army? It's certainly understandable that you would want to keep the fantasy & sci-fi packages as similar as possible, but I can also definitely see the need someone could have for fewer troops and more vehicles in certain sci-fi game systems.

It may be too late to consider changing the options for the SoF pre-order. However, this point could be worth contemplating for future offers. Of course, you'll know best what's working and what's not based on the sales you see coming in, but hopefully you'll find my suggestion useful in some way.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/10 08:21:51


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


MattW wrote:
Shieldwolf, Victrix miniatures often post a digital render of a sprue layout months ahead of actual production. Any chance of that here?.

There's a slim chance we make it on time to show the layout or part of the layout but I am not making any promises, there's more chances we show more 3d prints of stuff that will actually go on the sprues before closing the pre-order period.
djh2121 wrote:
SW, I do believe angel of death's point is worthy of consideration. Perhaps eighty infantry units is a bit much for sci-fi models that are unlikely to see use as a horde army?

True. And true. Then again there's the people splitting the offer in two (which makes it a killer deal compared to the already very competitive Francesca but I accept that's not the case for everyone).
djh2121 wrote:
It's certainly understandable that you would want to keep the fantasy & sci-fi packages as similar as possible [...]

This. We got the lesson during the last Kickstarter (I think I had also discussed it here with someone who proved me wrong as to "why should you care what the other guy gets if you are already getting a really good deal?"). We are not repeating the mistake; sci-fi and fantasy get the same good deal.
djh2121 wrote:
It may be too late to consider changing the options for the SoF pre-order. However, this point could be worth contemplating for future offers. Of course, you'll know best what's working and what's not based on the sales you see coming in, but hopefully you'll find my suggestion useful in some way.

We aren't changing any levels, we have already received payments and it would be highly unprofessional to alter how things stand; to put it in numbers, zero chance of that happening.
I do think however if this pre-order system works out like we plan (please remember it's our first attempt) we can certainly work a bit differently on future ones. We are very pleased to how this has worked out so far and the people's response, we simply need to do our part now and repay that trust. :-)


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/10 14:52:48


Post by: Samko


I really like those tanks a lot but I don't have use for 80 infantry, so I won't be preordering for laura. To bad there's not a smaller deal that includes tanks like the 100$ pledge of the KS.

Also what can the matriach be used as ? Female ogryns ?


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/10 16:53:39


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


@Samko
Thank you! (we are very happy our first sci-fi vehicles have had a good impression).
We'll be making them available separately after the pre-orders have been delivered.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/10 17:36:12


Post by: djh2121


SW I'm happy to her the pre-sale is going well, and I certainly agree with not changing the pre-order packages. I wasn't seriously suggesting that you should change them.

Rather, I wanted to highlight a potentially important lesson that could be used to build for the future. In this spirit, I'd recommend consideration of already existing "Start Your Collection" type bundles. These typically have the template of one HQ, one troops choice, and one heavy support. This structure has already been successful in the market, so perhaps next year or the year after there'll be an opportunity to contemplate whether it might work for you as well.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/10 19:32:55


Post by: PourSpelur


Guys! You're always sooo close to getting my order and it feels like you trip over the finish line.
80 infantry and 2 tanks...really? How about 40 infantry and 4 tanks? That gets my order. All day, every day. I want to be your biggest supporter, please give me an opportunity to do so.
Tanks, tanks, tanks...


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/10 20:23:06


Post by: djh2121


PourSpelur wrote:How about 40 infantry and 4 tanks?


One wonders if this could be made to work as an alternate Laura package were characters and/or the Pillar of Faith kit removed in addition to half the infantry.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/10 20:32:32


Post by: PourSpelur


djh2121 wrote:
PourSpelur wrote:How about 40 infantry and 4 tanks?


One wonders if this could be made to work as an alternate Laura package were characters and/or the Pillar of Faith kit removed in addition to half the infantry.

Yes! If I want Sister Superior Machine-Gun Maggie, I'll buy the resin as an add on. By offering what I'm sure a lot of people want (about 50% infantry, 50% vehicles) you open the floodgates to multiple orders.
80 infantry is about the max any army will field, where's the incentive to order multiples? A second, identical character? More unusable infantry?


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/10 20:57:19


Post by: angel of death 007


PourSpelur wrote:
djh2121 wrote:
PourSpelur wrote:How about 40 infantry and 4 tanks?


One wonders if this could be made to work as an alternate Laura package were characters and/or the Pillar of Faith kit removed in addition to half the infantry.

Yes! If I want Sister Superior Machine-Gun Maggie, I'll buy the resin as an add on. By offering what I'm sure a lot of people want (about 50% infantry, 50% vehicles) you open the floodgates to multiple orders.
80 infantry is about the max any army will field, where's the incentive to order multiples? A second, identical character? More unusable infantry?


I have been preaching this for days as this would be the true Sci Fi sisters foundation but it all falls on deaf ears. They have made their stand on this issue.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/10 21:32:37


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


I'd imagine that (resin) tanks made in house are a lot more work for the Shieldwolf team as well as using more expensive materials compared to plastic sprues made by Renedra that just need sticking a box once they're delivered

so more tanks (even with fewer infantry) would equal a much more expensive package


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/10 21:39:06


Post by: djh2121


angel of death 007 wrote:
PourSpelur wrote:
djh2121 wrote:
PourSpelur wrote:How about 40 infantry and 4 tanks?


One wonders if this could be made to work as an alternate Laura package were characters and/or the Pillar of Faith kit removed in addition to half the infantry.

Yes! If I want Sister Superior Machine-Gun Maggie, I'll buy the resin as an add on. By offering what I'm sure a lot of people want (about 50% infantry, 50% vehicles) you open the floodgates to multiple orders.
80 infantry is about the max any army will field, where's the incentive to order multiples? A second, identical character? More unusable infantry?


I have been preaching this for days as this would be the true Sci Fi sisters foundation but it all falls on deaf ears. They have made their stand on this issue.


Perhaps they'll yet come around. After all, I doubt that everyone who would buy such a bundle during the pre-sale would do so at the full retail price. Especially, if they had been a backer of the cancelled KS. In fact, I could imagine a person such as yourself being frustrated enough to simply give up and purchase nothing SoF related at all. One wonders how many "angels of death" there are among the ranks of the original backers.



Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/11 00:03:46


Post by: angel of death 007


I believe that a majority of backers when they did their KS were like me. They were interested in Sci Fi sisters.

These were the pledge levels for KS.

https://imgur.com/iE24ufx

Not quite sure how they went from offering decent sci fi options to this.

If it costs more for a 4 vehicle option set i am sure people would still pay it, given the option of having a discount, rather then having to wait for retail, but they truly take that option away from their customers. An option from which they were going to do in Kickstarter.

So from the looks of things there are atleast 3-4 people in this very small group who would like a 4 tank sci-fi option. I bet if we did a poll you would see what your customers want.

So i see history repeating itself with the kickstarter and somewhat rushing in. It takes a strong person to admit when they are wrong, which you have done and I like the reapproach and that fact that you were honorable and knew you couldn't fullfill the KS so didn't screw over your customers. However, since this is still the Pre... order phase. I don't see any reason why you couldn't offer other package options. I understand not wanting to do things piecemeal but in all honesty your package options though good for fantasy are less then optional for sci fi. Most sci fi power armored armies do not run foot soldiers or numbers. SOB was the same. As most people will be using them for a sci fi sisters army they have two great options in the current codex for vehicles being the exorcist and immolator. And typically you will want to take 2-3 of each.

With all that said an option for 40 infantry and 4 tanks... reguardless of what it costs seems to be a desire of your customers. One which even though someone can put down a logical reason why they would want that. The counter arguement is, we already started pre orders so we don't want to change it, for the only real reason given seems to be people would want to adjust their preorders which i am sure is a pain but in the same aspect if people did want to change their preorders that means that there is a niche which you didn't see in your plans. Those of us on the side lines who backed your kickstarter and were looking forward to this and having similiar package options are disappointed. Why should we not be...
so that gives us two options. overpay for things we don't need and still be left in the dark for how to get the rest of what we do need
or... just don't support you at all, even though we would like to.

So you penalize those who want to support you by not giving them any discount and basically say, just wait til retail, when you are still in the PRE order phase. This is kind of rediculous and to be honest with you if you stay stubborn then I will just go for option 2 and just convert my own tanks though i would much rather buy yours.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/11 01:57:56


Post by: Theophony


Guys it really comes down to their ability to make the options convenient for them to produce. If they say these are the options to ensure they can get everything produced and shipped on time, then that’s how they have it set up. All the items I’ll be available later to fill up the army, but for pre orders this is how they want to do business. If that means they get less sales now (3 companies all doing not-sisters SOON), then that’s what they have to worry about.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/11 02:07:05


Post by: djh2121


angel of death 007 wrote:

So i see history repeating itself with the kickstarter and somewhat rushing in.


I concur strongly with angel of death on this point. I'm going to quote Angelos from update 13 of the KS below. SW, I encourage you to please either re-read this fragment here or the update in full.

Angelos, Warmaidens and Dragonbreds Update 13:

"What you could not possibly have known is the number of people who messaged us mainly here on Kickstarter (but also on our FaceBook page) stating they were interested on the Sisters of Faith alone and that's the only reason they had pledged ... the project was set up wrong. I assume full responsability for that. People, well, we all have the tendency to ask for the sky and the stars and the galaxy and if possible literraly everything else our mind can visualize, but what we were seeing here was not irrational. It simply showed that what the project was providing was not meeting most of the backers expectations. I write backers and not referring to people "on the fence" or near the bench or whoever hadn't actively placed a single buck in the project's funding, for obvious reasons. When you get that many messages, you simply can't ignore them all unless funding somehow keeps augmenting (which wasn't happening). We structured based on a result that is no longer valid. That is my fault as I was the one who gave the green light to work this way."

I cannot help but see the same core mistake recurring. Namely, as Angelos admits, the KS failed because the SoF were done wrong because they were not placed as the first faction to unlock. As angel points out, now they are once again potentially being done wrong as the bundles on offer fail to deliver on the expectation set by the original KS. To echo angel's point, the KS bundles were compelling because they promised to deliver a playable army, but the pre-order bundles, I strongly suspect, do not.

If former backers were to feel that this were an abdication of the promise made to bring the project back several at a later date, then I would not blame them. After all, they were willing to pledge their trust in SW's talents and stand ready to do so again. Yet now they are being told that their pledge is no longer desired, at least not in any form they intended to make that pledge. I find it admirable that angel is still willing to keep his pledge as best he can. Perhaps others, so rejected, would be unable to convince themselves to do the same.

Now maybe this might seem all just silly talk given that we are seemingly talking about the prices paid for miniature plastic soldiers. However, I think, as you pointed out earlier in response to requests to see a sprue, reputations are built upon promises made and whether or not they are kept, and, further, while a mistake made once is forgivable, the same mistake made twice is not. Please kindly consider what I have said, and if any of these points rings] true hopefully you will find a way to address them.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Theophony wrote:
Guys it really comes down to their ability to make the options convenient for them to produce. If they say these are the options to ensure they can get everything produced and shipped on time, then that’s how they have it set up. All the items I’ll be available later to fill up the army, but for pre orders this is how they want to do business. If that means they get less sales now (3 companies all doing not-sisters SOON), then that’s what they have to worry about.


SW has not stated that they could not offer the hypothetical package we've brainstormed here due to logistical reasons. They've only commented that they could not allow for arbitrary add-ons. It would be best to wait for an official response before making such assumptions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I'd imagine that (resin) tanks made in house are a lot more work for the Shieldwolf team as well as using more expensive materials compared to plastic sprues made by Renedra that just need sticking a box once they're delivered

so more tanks (even with fewer infantry) would equal a much more expensive package


You're forgetting that, in addition to the forty infantry, we've proposed giving up the "Pillar of Faith" kit, which I'm lead to believe is roughly equivalent to a normal vehicle, as well as the three characters. Again I'd say an official reply from SW rather than speculation would be much more valuable.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/11 07:03:49


Post by: Theophony


@djh2121, back on March 9th they stated

 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
Thank you @Sentopnaut.
Yes, the items will be later made available via our webstore individually (the fantasy Griffantropii will go in packs of three), but the pre-orders we are currently taking will have to ship first before normal retail is available.


Which to me suggests they have already looked at the package totals, costs to assemble boxes of each tier and ship them in X container size, and manpower it would take. To add an a-la-carte option would add considerable amount of time, labor and cost to get all options out the door, not to mention any possible mispicks that would add further costs and I’ll will to a new growing manufacturer. Mantic games still struggles with this and one of the reasons I won’t touch them any more. They continue to run kickstarters with add what you want to your order and that’s where they get into unplanned issues. SW is using a KISS (keep it simple stupid) approach to this with this to ensure fewer problems at delivery. Cutting back on options is a clear showing of that and a great way of saving headaches later.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/11 09:17:51


Post by: PourSpelur


Brass tacks time.
I want a Not-Sisters army. About 1 tank per 10 infantry, give or take. I was in for the Kickstarter and would love to be in for the pre-order. Shieldwolf isn't offering what I want at this time.
I'm out.
I've literally begged you to let me give you money. I get the opportunity to wait and pay full retail. I was more than happy to pay early and wait for product, both on Kickstarter and on pre-order. Kickstarter had good value and was killed. Pre-order offer now is a joke.
Good luck, you're gonna need it. You had a good idea, a solid lead on the competition and a lot of Goodwill from the community. Looks like you've wasted 2 of the 3 in my case.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/11 12:37:13


Post by: djh2121


Theophony wrote:@djh2121, back on March 9th they stated

 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
Thank you @Sentopnaut.
Yes, the items will be later made available via our webstore individually (the fantasy Griffantropii will go in packs of three), but the pre-orders we are currently taking will have to ship first before normal retail is available.


Which to me suggests they have already looked at the package totals, costs to assemble boxes of each tier and ship them in X container size, and manpower it would take. To add an a-la-carte option would add considerable amount of time, labor and cost to get all options out the door, not to mention any possible mispicks that would add further costs and I’ll will to a new growing manufacturer. Mantic games still struggles with this and one of the reasons I won’t touch them any more. They continue to run kickstarters with add what you want to your order and that’s where they get into unplanned issues. SW is using a KISS (keep it simple stupid) approach to this with this to ensure fewer problems at delivery. Cutting back on options is a clear showing of that and a great way of saving headaches later.


I thought we'd made this abundantly clear, but, for the benefit of anyone still in doubt, we are NOT suggesting SW open up the pre-orders to a la carte options. What we are suggesting is that SW consider adding a fifth option with the very specific contents of 40 infantry and 4 tanks. We are suggesting SW do this because it is our contention that we find none of the current sci-fi packages truly compelling, and we suspect that there are others like us. We find the packages uncompelling because we believe they do not provide the ability to construct a playable army. We are disappointed because our expectation, based on the KS and subsequent communication, was that a package consisting of a playable army would be made available at some point in the future before going to retail. We believe the core problem making the current sci-fi pre-order packages unplayable is their attempt to mirror the fantasy packages in form too rigidly. We are therefore offering an alternative formulation, which, admittedly naively, seems financially viable. We believe that this alternative would resolve the issues we have pointed out, could easily be split among multiple parties (which SW advised we consider for Laura though this doesn't resolve the problems we've noted) for those who desire a smaller package but still desire the aesthetically well received tanks, is naturally suited for double orders from those who want an extra large army, and would therefore engender good-will among the community as well as result in more and larger pre-orders for SW.

Granted, based on other feedback we've seen, it's probable that we'll still see a non-trivial number of individuals wait until the last minute to decide whether to place pre-orders. They'll want to see any additional images, renders, etc. that SW has said they will try to put out. Nevertheless, having a very appealing sci-if package on offer will certainly convince more fence sitters to buy in than would otherwise. As for the notion that none of this can be done because the pre-orders have already started, it's certainly true that SW would have to offer anyone who's made a pre-order the ability to switch to the new package. However, we've assembled our proposed package as an alternative to Laura. Therefore, any such switch would be no worse than revenue neutral for SW. Such order adjustments would, of course, take some work on SW's part, but then again they might also make some additional money on up-sales as well.

Now, since only SW can give a meaningful reply to our points, and will most certainly need time to work out such a reply, I see no reason to engage in speculative debate over them while we wait. We will have an answer soon enough.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/11 21:59:32


Post by: angel of death 007


PourSpelur wrote:
Brass tacks time.
I want a Not-Sisters army. About 1 tank per 10 infantry, give or take. I was in for the Kickstarter and would love to be in for the pre-order. Shieldwolf isn't offering what I want at this time.
I'm out.
I've literally begged you to let me give you money. I get the opportunity to wait and pay full retail. I was more than happy to pay early and wait for product, both on Kickstarter and on pre-order. Kickstarter had good value and was killed. Pre-order offer now is a joke.
Good luck, you're gonna need it. You had a good idea, a solid lead on the competition and a lot of Goodwill from the community. Looks like you've wasted 2 of the 3 in my case.


Ditto, I'm out too.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/12 07:07:58


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


 Theophony wrote:
SW is using a KISS (keep it simple stupid) approach to this with this to ensure fewer problems at delivery. Cutting back on options is a clear showing of that and a great way of saving headaches later.
This. We mean to deliver by October 25th. If we are going to make this work and use it as basis for future similar offers (wolf sisters should follow soon after according to current plans), then we might as well augment our chances of success. That's one of the reasons we pulled back the 260euro option to keep things reasonably sized; it still hasn't stopped people from adding multiples in their orders. I have to note again, this offer will cease to exist once we hit the release date.
PourSpelur wrote:
I want a Not-Sisters army. About 1 tank per 10 infantry, give or take. I was in for the Kickstarter and would love to be in for the pre-order. Shieldwolf isn't offering what I want at this time.
Agreed that we aren't offerring what you'd like at this time, but to be clear we never offered that before either; I looked again at the KS offer and that was 4 boxes of 10 minis each, one resin heroine and 1 tank with a weapon upgrade for 100$. Now it's something more than double that for 160euros. No eventual stretch goals but free shipping worldwide instead and halved delivery time, not to mention it's a pre-order and not a Kickstarter (buyer's protection). Could the KS stretch goals get to an even larger value for money? Perhaps it could, but that was certainly not guaranteed nor are there any fail safes with what we are offering today.
PourSpelur wrote:
[...] I get the opportunity to wait and pay full retail.
"Full retail" is still very competitive compared to what we usually see in the market.
PourSpelur wrote:
Kickstarter had good value and was killed. Pre-order offer now is a joke.
We will agree to disagree.

@angel of death @djh2121 @PourSpleur
We are honored you're interested in our company and have directly engaged with us (with some constructive arguments may I add), and while we are truly sorry you feel we haven't adequately responded to your request, we knew that we wouldn't be able to please everyone. Regardless of what may seem reading comments in this forum, we are very pleased with how preorders have gone so far and see no reason to alter how things stand without causing more problems instead. We can only hope that once items hit retail you'll find the offerings juicy enough for future purchases compared to what doesn't satisfy you now.
This week we'll try uploading more images of what we are currently working on. :-)


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/12 14:32:45


Post by: djh2121


@SW Sorry guys, but if that's the final word on this, then I am taking a hard pass on the SoF and washing my hands of this project. It's a bit odd to be in this position given that I was so enthusiastic about you're KS campaign that I made your pledge calculator spreadsheet for you. A task that was a fair bit of work. Now though, to say that I am less than keen on this particular venture would be a bit of an understatement.

Before I go though, I will, as a last act of charity, offer you some lessons that you can add to those learned from the original KS.

I suggest that you go back and read the KS Update #13 or what I will call "the apology". Read this letter as if you were a supporter for the SoF with no inside information on the inner workings of the company. When it is promised that the project will relaunch with only a single faction Tallerium/Faith would you assume that this means that the project would be relaunched with the pledge levels that were available for those factions during the campaign or with those that were available for the Wolves?

Either way you answer that question you've either failed to communicate your plans to individuals such as Pour and Angel, or failed to understand their expectations and desires. As a result, you've offered them something different to what they were expecting, and they, quite understandable, feel extremely raw over this matter. In fact, I hear in their voices the type of anger that lead one individual to burn his entire WHFB army when GW decided to end-times the whole universe. This is important because the correct alternative to not trying to please everyone isn't to anger some people so badly that they are willing to literally or figuratively torch their connections to your company. Generally speaking, this fiery reaction I'm seeing can be put down to failures in the aspects of marketing that involve gauging consumer interest, managing customer expectations, and engaging in clear communication. If you still wondering why your willingness to, as you put it in update 14, invest tens of thousands of pounds, has not translated into a wider uptake by the community, then I would begin by looking at these three areas and asking yourselves what you could do better. Perhaps even bringing in a marketing consultant familiar with your industry could help you get started on this.

Please understand that I am not making these critiques out of anger. Rather, I am simply disappointed that a project, which held so much promise, has, to my mind, being repeatedly undermined due these elementary marketing mistakes. Despite our differences, I still wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors. Take care.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/12 14:45:56


Post by: StygianBeach


I will preoder something Fantasy, and probably 1 box of Sci-Fi sisters.

I am tempted by the Big Fantasy package, but the Griffon-Ogres need some work.

I think they are a great concept and I love the Halberds, but there is too much armour and the hands look far too human.

There are some nice Tengu miniatures out there, and if the Griffantropii can look a bit more like them, I would be happy.

It is also nice to see some Greek looking names.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/12 15:07:16


Post by: angel of death 007


@angel of death @djh2121 @PourSpleur
We are honored you're interested in our company and have directly engaged with us (with some constructive arguments may I add), and while we are truly sorry you feel we haven't adequately responded to your request, we knew that we wouldn't be able to please everyone. Regardless of what may seem reading comments in this forum, we are very pleased with how preorders have gone so far and see no reason to alter how things stand without causing more problems instead. We can only hope that once items hit retail you'll find the offerings juicy enough for future purchases compared to what doesn't satisfy you now.
This week we'll try uploading more images of what we are currently working on. :-)


@ SW
Well we will see what prices your tank kits roll out at..... at retail. Maybe they will be all that and be the affordable difference... or maybe you will just be another overseas company that will charge like $40 a tank and another $15 to ship it. Only real reason to back a pre order or kickstarter is value. You offer free shipping and value but not the product people want. Then you say wait for retail.... so we can pay full price and some obnoxious overseas shipping. No thanks. You can do just the same as most European businesses do.. put out their products, have no clue on distribution and stay small scale. And keep dreaming of the riches that some of your competitors who LISTEN on Kickstarter and else where obtain because they provide what their customers want. This whole experience has been a big slap in the face.

Your a small company, in a competative market, trying to make maximum bank by producing a product that a larger company doesn't offer (yet) only you can't even get that right. No new ideas, no willingness to get past your own stubbornness and take critisim what a great business model. And the few supporters you do have you take the arrogant route with because it is my way or the highway. GW attitude without GW power. Good luck with that. Even the massive giant GW learned recently to start listening, somewhat, to their customers.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/13 03:02:48


Post by: PourSpelur




I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed.
Here's a gift most of us rarely receive, a polite explanation of where we lost our path.
1) The numbers you quote to prove the pre-order is a good deal are disingenuous at best. You claim the KS offer was $100 for 4, ten girl squads and a tank. You missed a key element. The "Doubling" goal where those boxes go from ten to twenty (the same 20 bodies every other kit you produce has) If this "doubling" hadn't happened by the last day, I and I'd guess a large portion of backers would have dropped. So we're left with this math
KS: 80 Sisters, 1 Tank for $100 plus shipping.
Pre-Order: 80 Sisters, 2 Tanks for $197.13 free shipping.

Telling me that this is a comparable deal is looking me in the eye and telling me I'm too stupid to add.



Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/13 08:26:21


Post by: Samko


Even without the doubling goal, I was more interested by getting 1 tank and 40 troops, and adding a 2nd tank as add-on, than getting 2 tanks and more troops than I can field.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/13 10:02:28


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


@angel of death
Tanks will be more like 45 euros each, we stated that elsewhere too I think. I take it you have not received something we make, quality has costs I'm afraid. (or you have received from some third party we cast for and simply don't know we were the ones who casted it!)
Our pricings haven't stopped people buying e.g. our lions, polar bears and war mammoth which have not stopped selling ever since they came out, I shouldn't even be telling you this. We are pretty confident our tank range will have a similar fate, if not we would naturally not be spending nor pricing the way we do. Unlike what some people may think, we do not need Kickstarter to grow, it does help us however to grow faster.
As for shipping, strange you say that for our P&P policy; 3,90euros Zone-1, 5,90euros Zone-2, free shipping over 60 euros worldwide. We find these are very reasonable charges for P&P, I'm sorry if you find that "obnoxious".
We hope you'll come around to see it our way and we'd be happy to service you in future projects.

@PouSpetur
PourSpelur wrote:
[...]Telling me that this is a comparable deal is looking me in the eye and telling me I'm too stupid to add.

I will not disagree with you that is not a comparable deal, you are correct. You will allow me to debate that It is not a valid comparison however as it does not take into account registered pledges of 65,000$. Not to mention the Kickstarter exposure.
Shieldwolf took the risk even if it ended up selling a single box...

@Samko
Agreed, that would be great for some people who would be interested in that but it is not currently an option. For a single buyer. Two buyers splitting the Laura level though is just as good (actually it is even better, considering P&P is free and the heroines included), and we already know of people having done that. One can always add more tanks later if he wants to, we already have stated they will be individually be made available via normal retail. :-)


Guys, at the end of the day it is what it is. The deals we find honestly more than good. If it's not what you are looking for though, then we take this feedback you have provided and will see to provide future deals structured in a different manner perhaps. No hard feelings from anyone, it's only a preorder after all. :-)
To move on, we have received a work in progress of the Matriarch compared to the (almost finished) Sister of Faith Army Banner Bearer, we hope you like it. BIG is the correct term here... :-D



Edit: Forgot!
@StygianBeach
We liked the concept of the Griffantropii. And yes, Greek names ")
If believe they will be well received, in case they do better than expected we will augment the minis of their faction. Another faction has priority though, being casted as we speak :-)


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/13 13:19:43


Post by: inirlan


One of the things that drew me to the kickstarter were the kickass and affordable tanks at 40 dollars a tank (and four included in the 200 dollar pledge). At 45 euros a tank it's too expensive to justify buying one at retail. Especially since the preacher looks underwhelming compared to some of your previous designs.

Basically, if I buy the Sisters of Faith, I'd end up buying stuff from your competitors to complete my army. So yeah, a fifth sci-fi level with more tanks would be great.

On another topic, do you plan to include options to arm the Sisters with heavy weapons? I think you mentioned machine guns somewhere.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/13 15:21:45


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


@Inirian
Tanks would have had the benefit of large numbers because of the pledges collected via Kickstarter, here instead we are now walking into the unknown basing our belief that the community will stand by our side.
As for the heavy weapons, according to our research people asked for this kit to include various heavy weapons. We try our best to service them, thus we have designed options for a heavy machine gun, a heavy flaming gun and a heavy plasma gun. We don't know yet however many of each design (i.e.sculpt) and how many in number will go to each box, a minimum of one of each for sure. If people like what we do, it is reasonable to presume that more will be available in the future.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/13 20:32:00


Post by: skarsol


It will be interesting to see how well these Sisters do now that Wargame Exclusive is pumping out Sisters models as well. Both them and Raging Heroes will have been delivering product for a good while before these reach the market, even the preorders. The tanks are a good distinguishing point, but at 45 euro, I'm not sure that will be enough.

I'm in for some Matriarchs once they reach retail, but I don't need all those extra sisters in the Isabella bundle. :(

Bring on the Arachnomaidens!


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/13 21:51:57


Post by: Sentionaut


@Shieldwolf - random question, but are you able to give an estimate of how tall (in mm) the Pillar of Faith tank will measure?


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/14 05:42:41


Post by: Azazelx


 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
Hello everyone,

we have had a bit of an initial overflow of work so only today we started re-connecting with the forums. I will try my best answering your questions, I apologize in prioris if I miss anything just point it out, I certainly won't avoid anything on puspose and will try to be as clear and helpful as possible. :-)

 Azazelx wrote:
Did anyone notice what the timeframe for the pre-orders is? i.e: When they close?
We haven't decided yet due to our main priority is making sure everything is on track to deliver on time and we are focusing our energy there. It will be open minimum by April 5th.
 Azazelx wrote:
Also, any chance of sprue shots? Since this is a pre-order of retail product with all of the pretense of KS (KS is not a store, etc) pushed aside, I very much want to see what I'm buying before I'm willing to lay my cash down.
Fair argument but the tooling is going to take a few months I'm afraid, if the sprues were readythen we'd have gone straight to retail and there wouldn't be a discounted pre-order like the one running now.
 Azazelx wrote:
The shieldmaidens were/are good, but not entirely what was shown during the KS campaign, ans given my qualms about aspects of the last Sisters design during the KS, and those freaky shoulderpads, I absolutely do want to see the sprues and more detailed renders first.
And that's exactly the reason we are very cautious in not showing absolutely anything that might for whatever reason NOT make it to the final sprues. People having seen what we make can relatively safely presume there will be bodies, tabards, arms, weaponry (more than the Shieldmaiden kit), heads, a few ornaments etc on the sprues of the final product. As for the quality, we have no reason to doubt is going to be anything less than what was delivered by now.

djh2121 wrote:
It appears the general consensus is that the pre-order is interesting, but lacking in needed detail. I'd have to agree. To put it terms perhaps a bit to harsh it seems we don't know exactly what we are pre-ordering, when we can pre-order it, or the cost to pre-order vs buying normal retail. I think the more SW can do to address these gaps in our knowledge the more motivated I might feel to place a pre-order. I hope this bit of feedback helps.

Your opinion is very rational and appreciated. It's true we haven't provided too many details but (in our way of thinking at least) that's also why we are ultra-discounting the deals though, to reward those who still believe we'll pull this through nicely without them having seen the final product.


In the nicest possible way then, you need to show us lots more renders. Both "Assembled" models as well as shots of individual components. Not "cool" fish-eye, low-angle ones that play havoc with the proportions, either.
As you've said now many times, it's not a KS - so the value isn't nearly the same as it was before the cancelled campaign, and we have little to no opportunity to input feedback. The Shieldmaidens were nice, but missing expected components, arms and options.

Therefore, a "trust us, it'll be ace, just look at how good the shieldmaidens were" promise really isn't a good enough proposition to throw money at you guys. I've certainly got the money to spend, but I don't possess blind faith towards anyone or anything and I don't throw money blindly at the screen at something when I don't know what it will actually be. I'd be potentially looking at almost 500euros. I need more images and information to spend that kind of cash. Especially months in advance.

If you have the 3d models made for the figures then I'd hope you can show us decent, clear component shots of the parts that are guaranteed to be included. Legs, torsos, backpacks, shoulder pads, heads, weapons, arms, etc. Anything that is speculative can be omitted under the "+ more cool stuff" heading if you're very wary of showing them.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/14 07:05:15


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


@skarsol
Yeah, we noticed the other companies coming out too for the Sci-Fi this period which competes with our Sisters of Faith (haven't noticed anything regarding our Sisters of Talliareum). We found it (very) strange how these other companies entered this market area as we had publicly announced we'd be following up on that part of the project, so perhaps they missed that or for some reason beyond our comprehension thought we would change our minds? Still fact remains it will somewhat decimate sales for everyone involved (not the the smartest thing to do for smaller companies in a niche market), so I guess the losing side will have to start offerring even better deals to be able to compete and make up part of that loss. One has to sell outside of Kickstarter to make the product viable. End of October we'll be selling 20 multi-part hard plastic minis for like 25-30 euros per box, we currently see nobody being able to challenge that.
Then again, that was their decision so, by all means, let the best prevail! :-D (or, a saying we have here in Greece, the sun comes out for everyone, so, fair game!)

Aracnomaidens are being sculpted so not much I can show, still Work in Progress I'm afraid.


@Sentionaut
I'll enquire and get back to you on this :-)

@Azazelx
I accept this line of reasoning very much and appreciate the input. Then again my hands are somewhat tied at least these days, especially because this is a pre-order and not a crowddfunding campaign, thus buyer's protection is in force. We will be showing more stuff included before closing the pre-order period, but it's still going to take a few weeks before the a good portion of the final layout is determined. We will not be going through the "no spears" thing again, you were a backer in that project and you followed what happened. We will add eventually an upgrade sprue for the Shieldmaidens (not only because we mean to have the backers happy but we also spent a good sum of money that people seem to forget in trying to add them, regardless of that not producing the end results desired).
Bottom line we don't want to state too many things for the pre-order phase and have people imagining more than we can offer. For the Sisters of Faith we aim at offering a "all I need" box, as for the Sisters of Talliareum the options again will be ample.
Kindly allow us a couple of weeks time and we will be revealing more definitive stuff, that's all I'm allowed to promise for the time being. :-)


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/14 11:26:58


Post by: Azazelx


Sure, but you do know that traditional pre-orders for product don't ask buyers to buy blind, which is essentially what you're asking us to do here. Traditional pre-orders show the entire contents of the product in question, and often to do months and months out. (Not GW with their one-week window)

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "buyer's protection" I know PayPal gives you 6 months these days, but it would be pushing it to expect it to protect buyers from "no spears".

I've got no problem waiting a few weeks for more images. My only potential issue there would be if the pre-order window was to be too small once substantial product images are actually available. I'd call what you've shown so far to be "teaser" images at best.

Best of luck!


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/14 11:48:38


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


Thank you Azazelx, I know you mean the best for us.

We will be notifying at least 2 weeks prior to closing the pre-order period, I hope that helps. :-)


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/14 15:04:33


Post by: skarsol


Huzzah for the Arachno-peoples! Any idea on what pricing will be?


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/14 15:15:42


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


@skarsol
I'm afraid I can't answer you at this period of time.

@Sentinoaut
(working on that request, I think by tomorrow I'll have your answer)


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/15 16:38:03


Post by: Sentionaut


Awesome, thank you!

Looking forward to purchasing your miniatures


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/15 21:44:05


Post by: Original Timmy


 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
Here you go :-)

[/spoiler]
[spoiler]

Just looking at the dozer blade on this and imo and quite pos if done IRL the blade would be a bit wider at least to protect and push stuff out the way of the tracks,

Its nice to finally hear the estimated retail costs as that at least gives me an idea of the savings on your pre-orders and the $160 pack seems to be saving $50-60 dollars which is pretty good,

Now we need to see more info/renders etc of the troops etc and without sounding to harsh you are going retail and not KS, with that route at min you need to have at least full renders of the troops and the builds possible from the box of 20 troops, people dont take "risks" with retail like KS, when backing "blind" on KS you was rewarded very nicely with excellent value pledges and freebies for doing so, but not many pre-order "blind" consumers like to know exactly what they are buying when they pay for it, you dont pay upfront blindly for a new car design from a manufacturer on the promise its going to be really cool when its finished in 6 months, just take a look at all your competitors in the hobby when they have pre-orders all the minis are shown in their full splendour in at least renders, then sprue layout and fully professionally painted minis/3D prints.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/15 22:17:08


Post by: rayphoton


That tank is....massive. I kinda love it


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/16 11:53:38


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


 Original Timmy wrote:
Just looking at the dozer blade on this and imo and quite pos if done IRL the blade would be a bit wider at least to protect and push stuff out the way of the tracks
You have a valid point, well, a mistep from our side I guess as this is our first endevour in the science fiction market; on the plus side the dozer blade will be optional (i.e. separate piece) so if it doesn't look good/functional one may choose to leave it out.
 Original Timmy wrote:
Its nice to finally hear the estimated retail costs as that at least gives me an idea of the savings on your pre-orders and the $160 pack seems to be saving $50-60 dollars which is pretty good,
More like $70 saving (for Tier-4, Laura and Simona) I think :-)
We think that offering a very good % discount is essential for this type of pre-order, not to mention maintaining the quality standards.
 Original Timmy wrote:
Now we need to see more info/renders etc of the troops etc
Very true! We are working on it! :-)


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/16 12:38:01


Post by: Mr Morden


That looks great

As I have ordered at Tier 4 - I get the bits for this right?


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/16 12:43:40


Post by: Necros


Tank looks great. I agree it feels like the dozer blade should be wider. How about an alternate V-shaped blade, kind of like you see on some snow plows? like this?



Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/17 00:29:42


Post by: Azazelx


 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
 Original Timmy wrote:
Just looking at the dozer blade on this and imo and quite pos if done IRL the blade would be a bit wider at least to protect and push stuff out the way of the tracks
You have a valid point, well, a mistep from our side I guess as this is our first endevour in the science fiction market; on the plus side the dozer blade will be optional (i.e. separate piece) so if it doesn't look good/functional one may choose to leave it out.


Any particular reason you wouldn't enlarge it to be more realistic given the lead time on all of this?


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/17 09:34:34


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


@Azazelx
Very simple explanation actually, because that specific part has unfortunately already been printed and put in production (currently in a mold to make the master mold out of it). Unlike single miniatures (characters), the tanks take a very long time to produce given their size so they took priority compared to everything else (some of it are being sculpted as we speak!), there's lots of work placed behind what we do that's certainly never made visible; timeframes, tests, fixes, relative comparisons with other of our products, pricings, research, lawyer visits etc. We also said we mean to deliver on time and that we shall.
If it was obnoxiously wrong I'm sure we'd agree and add even more work to make it in time to replace it completely but I think you'll agree with me that's not the case here. It is a slight mistep, fair argument, we won't debate on it and we have to fold our cards. :-)

We might need to also note that the lead time isn't as big as one might come to believe since the female paladins aren't the only thing we have on our schedule, despite them being two full armies which is a big endevour by itself. Our company has a vision that expands to various sectors and thus inevitably needs to plan ahead, despite of things not going always as planned -part of the beauty of life I guess! :-) ... Compared to the large companies of the sector e.g. Citadel Miniatures, Fantasy Flight Games or Privateer Press, there's specific (or extremely limited if you prefer) manpower in Shieldwolf Miniatures compared to these, despite our plans of expansion it's going to take many years to even get close to them. Overpromising and underdelivering is something we try to avoid at all costs, reputation is everything to us and even trying our best we too sometimes don't suceed as much as we'd hope too. :-)
We hold a very strong reputation producing for third parties (mainly Spain, France and Poland) which we mean to keep intact (these services we offer are also a substantial revenue source of the company). We provide 100% free prize support (P&P included) for around 5-10 tournaments worldwide every month [this past week alone we mailed to Ontario and Zagreb (T9A), Seattle (KoW), and Athens (AoS)]. We try keeping our contact service responsive and quick as possible. We have the Forest Goblin campaign we are working on. We have more releases going to direct retail this year. Plus we have other things in mind that we are working on (e.g. terrain) and will probably be revealing later this year also. That's a pretty tight schedule and we mean to see it through :-)

Edit: (forgot to address the above)
@Mr. Morden
Affirmative.
@rayphoton
Thak you.
@Necros
If people like the concept (perhaps even put into vote to check on popularity) we can always make a couple of variations available in the future, sure :-)


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/17 13:11:32


Post by: Albertorius


If it's too bad you could make a mould for some "dozer blade add-ons" to get that bit of added coverage putting them on the sides of the already casted ones, right?


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/17 16:40:39


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


@Albertorius
I don't know how that would look but that's certainly a great and (at first glance very) effective idea! :-D


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/22 08:18:24


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


Shields printed and lay-out printed. The bottom left will NOT make it into the kit (unless we come up with something amazing, doesn't look like there's going to be enough space for that though...)



and here's another view of them.
We'll be showing off 3d printed heads later today, working on getting some decent shots. :-)



Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/22 14:22:47


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


Will they have hands attached to the back or be handless? They would be great for BFG conversions.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/22 15:48:55


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


@BobtheInquisitor
They will have hands attached to the back, affirmative.

Here are the heads we promised earlier today, we are in full printing schedule. They ALL go on both kits.
We'll be discussing more on the heads and weaponry in the coming days... :-)



Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/22 16:45:02


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


Drat. Hopefully they will be easy to remove.

What is going on with the leftmost head's hair?


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/22 17:14:39


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


I think I know which one you are talking about. I'm attaching a picture to show it better. If I mistook which one however, by all means let me know. :-)
In the image attached you can see the amount of work going into every single item. This project was designed to deliver the best and we will accept nothing less!



Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/22 17:18:56


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


Her right side--our left--has very unusual hair. It looks like she's wearing part of an Egyptian headdress or a jet intake.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/22 17:36:59


Post by: Galas


Yeah, the rest of the hairs are nice, but that part Bob is refering to looks... artificial. Not how actual hair works


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/22 17:39:33


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


You mean this one then? I don't know if it looks egyptian or not, our research showed people liked it though :-)





Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/22 17:53:32


Post by: DarkTraveler777


I think Bob is referring to this:



Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/22 17:56:28


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


Thanks for using your technosorcery in aid of my point, DarkTraveler777. That is exactly the part I am talking about.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/22 18:28:47


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


Aha! :-D
Well, with every kit we get better I think. With the Shieldmaidens while we thought we had done a great job with the heads, we still got people complaining about "spaghetti" hair (sigh), so we decided to better address the issue in the following projects.
In this case it's either leave it blank is or try adding minor detail, taking into account that plastic tooling has it's limitations and some designs have to (inevitably) comply. Leaving it blank looked worse :-)

Funny fact: If you notice, the detail in the first head I thought you were talking about is higher than the second. Still people might opt to use more the second type provided! Lesson, more detail doesn't always make it better :-D


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/22 18:52:41


Post by: Galas


Spoiler:
 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
You mean this one then? I don't know if it looks egyptian or not, our research showed people liked it though :-)





No, this hair is absolutely fine, a classic, and I'm glad you are using it. As Darktraveler pointed out, we were refering to the other one.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/22 19:26:03


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


I addressed that above :-)
(I didn't get it at first, @Darktraveler though gave a hand!)


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/22 23:31:17


Post by: StygianBeach


Oh no! I dislike hands on the back of shields, it makes the model so much harder to paint.

Also, I am not a fan of fancy shield shapes, so unless there are alternative hands I am gonna have a hard time replacing them with more simple Heater and Kite type shields.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/23 00:54:18


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


So, the shipping on the preorder is free, right? Do we need to use a code to activate free shipping?


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/23 06:26:50


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


 StygianBeach wrote:
Oh no! I dislike hands on the back of shields, it makes the model so much harder to paint.
We can't please everyone :-D
That said, I'm pretty sure the size of the shields will allow those who want the shields "bare" to simply scrape them off.
 StygianBeach wrote:
Also, I am not a fan of fancy shield shapes, so unless there are alternative hands I am gonna have a hard time replacing them with more simple Heater and Kite type shields.

You mean like these ;-)
Yes, there are and they are plenty. This is the largest investment ever made from the company so you can safely bet our kits can safely withstand the test of time :-)



 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
So, the shipping on the preorder is free, right? Do we need to use a code to activate free shipping?

The free shipping for Tiers 2,3 and 4 should be automatically activated from the system. If for some reaon it does not though, just let us know :-)


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/23 09:31:10


Post by: StygianBeach


 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:

 StygianBeach wrote:
Also, I am not a fan of fancy shield shapes, so unless there are alternative hands I am gonna have a hard time replacing them with more simple Heater and Kite type shields.

You mean like these ;-)
Yes, there are and they are plenty. This is the largest investment ever made from the company so you can safely bet our kits can safely withstand the test of time :-)


Brilliant.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/23 09:37:18


Post by: Mymearan


So is anyone here rethinking their purchase after the GW announcement? Or are you guys simply not interested/can't be arsed to wait and see what GW has to offer way down the line in 2019? Or maybe you'll buy both?


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/23 14:38:28


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


 Mymearan wrote:
So is anyone here rethinking their purchase after the GW announcement? Or are you guys simply not interested/can't be arsed to wait and see what GW has to offer way down the line in 2019? Or maybe you'll buy both?


I amnterested in GW's product, but also in Shiedlwolf's. Unfortunately, time and budget really only allow me to sample a box at a time regardless of the manufacturer, so my preorder was never going to be very impressive.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/24 00:36:09


Post by: Original Timmy




Does that mean the torsos and legs are now separate?


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/24 00:41:58


Post by: Azazelx


 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
I think I know which one you are talking about. I'm attaching a picture to show it better. If I mistook which one however, by all means let me know. :-)
In the image attached you can see the amount of work going into every single item. This project was designed to deliver the best and we will accept nothing less!



You know I'm a supporter of you guys, but please stop saying "best". Those heads aren't best. They're far from it. They're decent to good. Try talking about "always improving" as you did in the later post and avoid the word "best".

For the guys questioning the odd side-hair, remember - those renders are blown up to about 50x actual size. It's definitely still odd (hair doesn't look like that, humans probably still have ears in the future, etc) but it probably won't be that noticeable if you're not looking for it. (Again, also not "best", by any means.)


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/24 01:18:59


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


@Original Timmy
We follow the same design for the torsos and backs as we did for the Shieldmaidens.

@Azazelx
Copy that, I was carried away from the enthusiasm of what we are creating! It's always subjective aesthetic wise anyway, so yeah, "best" isn't the appropriate term :-)

@Mymearan
We have every confidence the community will choose to stand by our side and support what it asked us to deliver!


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/24 02:16:55


Post by: inirlan


Will there be helmeted options? I'm terribad at painting skin...


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/24 08:34:16


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


@inirian
Affirmative. We can't guarantee there will be enough for all 20 models per box, but we are certainly including helmeted versions for both the Sisters of Talliareum and Sisters of Faith.
Here's what we are going for as revealed in one of the tiers, I'll try finding a picture with more them as we are currently printing them out.
http://www.shieldwolfminiatures.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=146


As I said earlier, we are extremely positive that the community will choose to stand by our side and support us in what we are creating :-)


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/24 09:47:37


Post by: Nostromodamus


Armoured feed belt that doesn’t feed from anything?

I do like the head though.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/24 10:52:29


Post by: Azazelx


Yeah, that's a bit ...odd. Hopefully they'll also have an oversized sickle mag or a box feed as options.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/24 18:22:39


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


Box or Drum would be best for me, but I can always find a bit from the Dreamforge accessory sprue if need be.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/24 18:45:14


Post by: Mr Morden


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 Mymearan wrote:
So is anyone here rethinking their purchase after the GW announcement? Or are you guys simply not interested/can't be arsed to wait and see what GW has to offer way down the line in 2019? Or maybe you'll buy both?


I amnterested in GW's product, but also in Shiedlwolf's. Unfortunately, time and budget really only allow me to sample a box at a time regardless of the manufacturer, so my preorder was never going to be very impressive.


I'll just buy both plus some other versions...


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/25 01:52:21


Post by: inirlan


I agree that if you don't go with a non-backpack option (which I like) an ammo drum or an ammo belt with apparent shells looks nicer. Also that belt looks a bit too long, as it goes all the way to the ground, which will limit how you can posse the mini and looks awkward.

The helmet looks great, though.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/03/27 02:34:44


Post by: angel of death 007


 Mymearan wrote:
So is anyone here rethinking their purchase after the GW announcement? Or are you guys simply not interested/can't be arsed to wait and see what GW has to offer way down the line in 2019? Or maybe you'll buy both?


The lack of vehicles put me out on the preorder train. GW kits will probably be crazy expensive. I already got my Raging Heroes sisters built and will just 3d print some rhinos to modify into exorcists and immolators.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/04/11 00:25:34


Post by: Azazelx


This has been real quiet lately. What happened to at least showing us a gakload of renders for our pre-orders?

Is there an echo-chamber elsewhere where SW deals more actively with their customers? Comments section of the last KS? Facebook?


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/04/11 04:26:08


Post by: warboss


I'd imagine GW's statement about putting out SOB plastics sometime next year might make them pause to reconsider investing in the moulds and re-evaluate the potential long term demand. That's just a guess though.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/04/11 09:01:14


Post by: Azazelx


It certainly has the potential to affect the long-term demand, but it could be positive or negative. In that more people will be interested in playing a supported version of SoB, so the pool of potential customer-players gets bigger.

Essentially, fewer sales to individuals, but more people buying them overall. It's going to be impossible to quantify, obviously. But then again, places like Anvil built their businesses selling not-marines. Vic Minis and oh.. that bloke in America... can't remember the name... built theirs selling not-guardsmen - and Anvil has joined them in a big way.

Raging Heroes started with not-dark elves, and branched out into Not-Guardswomen and more not-dark elves and not-sisters. Avatars or War's entire business - and indeed - Shieldwolf themselves started off selling not-WHFB models.

So yeah. Properly officially supported Sisters of Battle might be the best thing that ever happened to Shieldwolf. Especially if they get their models out early and make a windfall off the anticipation of players.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/04/11 10:19:36


Post by: MonkeyBallistic


 Azazelx wrote:


Raging Heroes started with not-dark elves, and branched out into Not-Guardswomen and more not-dark elves and not-sisters. Avatars or War's entire business - and indeed - Shieldwolf themselves started off selling not-WHFB models.

So yeah. Properly officially supported Sisters of Battle might be the best thing that ever happened to Shieldwolf. Especially if they get their models out early and make a windfall off the anticipation of players.


The difference is that Raging Heroes’ hugely successful not-sisters Kickstarter was done at a time when it looked liked GW was never going to give further support to the SoB. The question is, how many people who might have been interested are now going to wait and see what GW does before committing to actually buying anything (exactly as GW plans with their uncharacteristicly early announcement).


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/04/11 13:18:06


Post by: warboss


The way I see it is that there are broadly three subgroups of potential SOB customers:

1) those who would prefer to buy Shieldwolf's not-SOB
2) those who would buy Shieldwolf's not-SOB only if there is no alternative
3) those who would never buy Shieldwolf's not SOB

GW coming out and saying that official SOB plastics are eventually for sure returning won't affect categories 1 and 3... but will discourage those in 2. YMMV.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/04/11 14:01:51


Post by: Fenriswulf


To be honest, I think they would have more success fleshing out their Norse line of miniatures, by perhaps adding a modular set of men to go along with the women they have already made. There aren't so many miniature companies that have plastic fantasy Norse miniatures that look as good or have as good a quality as their product. Even GW Marauders are horribly proportioned.

But I don't really know the market that's out there for such things. I do think SoB might be a bit of a risk, now that GW seems to be determined to put them back out.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/04/11 15:36:49


Post by: MonkeyBallistic


 warboss wrote:
The way I see it is that there are broadly three subgroups of potential SOB customers:

1) those who would prefer to buy Shieldwolf's not-SOB
2) those who would buy Shieldwolf's not-SOB only if there is no alternative
3) those who would never buy Shieldwolf's not SOB

GW coming out and saying that official SOB plastics are eventually for sure returning won't affect categories 1 and 3... but will discourage those in 2. YMMV.


I think that describes the situation after GW releases SoB. Shieldwolf May have a problem in the short term if a large number of potential customers decide not to buy anything until after they’ve seen what GW comes up with.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/04/11 17:41:25


Post by: Original Timmy


 Azazelx wrote:
This has been real quiet lately. What happened to at least showing us a gakload of renders for our pre-orders?

Is there an echo-chamber elsewhere where SW deals more actively with their customers? Comments section of the last KS? Facebook?


Hasnt it, i keep checking in regularly here and KS, KS is just as quiet i also just checked their FB and thats the same, nothing since their office/workshop got flooded on the 26th March which im sure has put them on the back foot a bit!

Like a few others have pointed out theres a massive risk now for Shieldwolf to be out of tens of thousands of Euros for sometime to come if they finance the molds themselves, before GW's announcement there was a good chance it wont take too long to make the money back, now GW, Raging Heroes, Wargames exclusive and Heresy have all announced or released their not SOB's, ive mentioned it to a few mates/previous backers when Shieldwolf 1st announced the pre-order that they would be better running it as a KS, as there will be less financial risk if GW or anyone else announce/release not SOB's, that way if they get stuck with molds that are not producing much it wont be a burden that could possibly sink them, the KS would have been a win/win, backers get what they want the non SOB's and Shieldwolf get what they want the molds burden free no matter what any other company does.

Another problem IM seeing, thats not to say its not happening as im not everywhere on the internet is where is all the promotion for Shieldwolf's not SOB'S that Angelos spoke about, one of his comments about the failed KS was they didnt get enough people to see the KS and they was going to change that for the pre-order, if the only people that know about the pre-order is us backers of their last KS which is around 336(231 on the goblin,565 on 'Maidens,190 1st KS), this forum and their FB page they are going to struggle as its mainly the same group of people that post here and on their FB that backed the KS, many have already said they will pass as the KS pricing was lots better and you got to follow all the production along and feel like you was part of it.

Im sure its certainly a stressful time for the Shieldwolf guys right now!


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/04/11 18:02:43


Post by: Tonhel


Looking at recent GW releases and specificly what GW can currently do with plastic (I.e Idoneth AoS preview / release) I have high expectations of what GW will deliver with SoB's. I don't believe Shieldwolf can do better... .

GW said that they will regular post updates about the development of SoB, so I expect that we will see 3D renders eventually. Maybe with Warhammer Fest?

It also possible that GW SoB's will be released before Shieldwolf sisters are available.

The behaviour of this "new" GW is troublesome for companies that try to make "not" GW miniatures.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/04/11 18:14:43


Post by: kodos


Tonhel wrote:
Looking at recent GW releases and specificly what GW can currently do with plastic (I.e Idoneth AoS preview / release) I have high expectations of what GW will deliver with SoB's. I don't believe Shieldwolf can do better... .

What to expect from GW: shiny monopose minis of 5 with no variation or options and conversions only possibly with a lot of green stuff
What Shieldwolf can do better: multipart poseable minis, easy to convert


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/04/11 18:22:28


Post by: Tonhel


 kodos wrote:
Tonhel wrote:
Looking at recent GW releases and specificly what GW can currently do with plastic (I.e Idoneth AoS preview / release) I have high expectations of what GW will deliver with SoB's. I don't believe Shieldwolf can do better... .

What to expect from GW: shiny monopose minis of 5 with no variation or options and conversions only possibly with a lot of green stuff
What Shieldwolf can do better: multipart poseable minis, easy to convert


Well let's agree to disagree.

I backed the War is Coming: Shieldmaiden reboot. The plastics are fine as you expect when cast by Renedra, but they certainly aren't as versatile or have the same amount of options as i.e Perry WotR of Late HYW range. Which are also casted by Renedra. Infact.. the shieldmaiden are quite static and don't really have so many options on the sprue as I hoped.

GW mini's are much more dynamic and most new kits have still more options than i.e the Shieldmaiden plastic set.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/04/12 15:07:18


Post by: Azazelx


 warboss wrote:
The way I see it is that there are broadly three subgroups of potential SOB customers:

1) those who would prefer to buy Shieldwolf's not-SOB
2) those who would buy Shieldwolf's not-SOB only if there is no alternative
3) those who would never buy Shieldwolf's not SOB

GW coming out and saying that official SOB plastics are eventually for sure returning won't affect categories 1 and 3... but will discourage those in 2. YMMV.


You forgot those who would buy both SW's not-SOB as well as GW's are-SOB. Also not affected, but potentially becoming a larger pool of people as they find that SW's not-SOB are a thing that exists. When they become a thing that exists.



Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/04/12 15:19:47


Post by: Nostromodamus


 Azazelx wrote:
When they become a thing that exists.


If.

Shieldwolf might just say “oh we’re not making as much money as we would like with pre orders so we’ll just cancel.”

Personally I’m going with another company that is proven reliable and high quality.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/04/12 16:10:49


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


We've been a little absent here although I have been dropping by occassionaly to check a bit. I intended to address each one after reading carefully but I'll scurry up after @Nostromodamus comment to avoid speculation risking to damage the new releases, since I think things are derailing a bit here. For those following the developments we had a nasty flood in our HQ and it has tilted our workflow, that's why I haven't responded here to anyone. Given we had to supply customers (i.e. companies) in the UK and the USA and one of our pumps was out of function, not to mention regular customers and retailers, we had to sidetrack a bit. That's also the reason the webstore was on and off at times. That said, everything is still within our timetables so professional service should be guaranteed once again.

@Nostromodamus
That was never an option, Shieldwolf Miniatures has always delivered what it took money for.

@Azazelx @Tonhel @kodos @Original Timmy
We won't comment on another colleague's product (besides, even if we wanted to we've seen nothing to actually comment on!). Everyone's welcome to enter the market, we trust people will support us regardless since not only we find our final result will do us justice but also because we were apparently the first to listen and promise them what hobbyists were asking for. Female sci-fi and fantasy paladins in hard plastic. We promised, therefore we will deliver :-)


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/04/12 23:22:58


Post by: Azazelx


 Original Timmy wrote:

Hasnt it, i keep checking in regularly here and KS, KS is just as quiet i also just checked their FB and thats the same, nothing since their office/workshop got flooded on the 26th March which im sure has put them on the back foot a bit!


Damn, I didn't know about that. Hopefully they haven't lost too much but it's definitely the sort of thing that can really cause a lot of issues.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:

@Azazelx @Tonhel @kodos @Original Timmy
We won't comment on another colleague's product (besides, even if we wanted to we've seen nothing to actually comment on!). Everyone's welcome to enter the market, we trust people will support us regardless since not only we find our final result will do us justice but also because we were apparently the first to listen and promise them what hobbyists were asking for. Female sci-fi and fantasy paladins in hard plastic. We promised, therefore we will deliver :-)


You've been busy with supply and recovering from the flood - that's fine. I knew about neither and hope you fully recover as soon as possible. When you do, please flood us with photos, renders, 3d prints, etc so we can see what we're potentially getting when/if we spend our money now on a long-pre-order.

If you can address the not-heavy bolter ammo feed belt that leads nowhere (when you get a chance) that would also be good. Is there a box or sickle mag alternative available? Does the belt feed connect with an ammo-hopper backpack a la GW's Space Marine Devastators (since the 1990's). I'm not trolling you here - the ammo feed belt that leads nowhere and drags along the ground is awful design from someone who doesn't understand how firearms work, and I'd like to know if other options are available for that weapon or if it's just a work-in progress render that can be upgraded to make at least sci-fi suspension-of-belief level sense.



Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/04/13 17:22:02


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


@Azazelx
Thank you :-)
I'll do my best to post a thorough answer next week (which should be our first "back to normality" after the recent incident).


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/04/15 18:29:43


Post by: Original Timmy


@Shieldwolf, have you a date yet for when pre-orders close?



Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/04/16 05:58:24


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


@Original Timmy
The initial plan was late April but due to the recent hardle we faced in our HQ I think they should remain open now till early May? I think. We will be announcing the closing date officially this week.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/04/16 08:32:33


Post by: Azazelx


Given that it's been 3 1/2 weeks since we've seen any new images (and we've not seen much, really), I think you should be more concerned with showing people what you're going to be making than worrying about closing the pre-order date.

You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.


We're talking about (potentially) quite a few hundred dollars for any individual backer for items deliverable in October (or later) based on not many images or renders and "trust us".
I trust that you'll deliver (possibly in October, possibly a month or four late, but you'll deliver). I trust that your intentions are the best of.
I don't yet trust that I'll like the designs of the models because aesthetics are a personal thing and I don't know what I'll be getting. I'm not spending those hundreds of dollars buying almost-blind when there's plenty of other stuff that I can see competing for my dollars right now.
How to solve that? More clear images. Lots of them. I don't know how I can make this clearer, and I honestly don't understand why they've not been a thing, even preceding the flood.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/04/16 10:31:30


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


@Azazelx
Ah, that's an easy one I guess. Mainly it's the fact we are very wary of showing anything that might not make it into the final product (we've been there, lol, we don't intend to have a repeat of that issue). It's also because instead of spending time to make eye-catching "oh shiny!" renders that will make people like what we are creating (these take time which we don't have plenty of), we tend mostly to make sure we deliver as promised, so that's where our main focus is.
Otherwise we can shoot pictures like this below, but we prefer not to. It's not professional looking nor perhaps even necessary (others may have even accepted mere artwork, still costs money when it's quality artwork but, oh well, we try our best!). That said, I comprehend what you are saying and can certainly accept not wanting to risk on something that potentially will not be liked.


To us it's mostly an issue of trust going both ways; Shieldwolf and the community. Shieldwolf took the risk by commiting itself in the largest investment ever made by the company (not to mention never done before by anyone else either). The Community has certainly responded nicely so far and we expect even more before the year ends. It sets a precedent for others as well, no? :-)


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/04/16 11:34:03


Post by: Azazelx


That render's a start, and not a bad one. But again, there's not much there, and you seem really loath to show more.

Here's the thing. My money is my time. I work to earn the money. It's the reimbursement i receive for spending the time being productive at my job. If my time earning my disposable income isn't worth your time to show me what I'd be getting for taking my money - which is my time, then I feel no desire to pay you for product 6+ months in advance.

You see it as matter of "trust". I guess in terms that trusting the community that said they wanted plastic sisters and going ahead and doing it. Fine. I trust you to deliver what you promise in terms of a bunch of models. It's just that what you're not willing to show me what you're promising. I see it as a matter of respect. At present, I don't feel that my time is respected. You're happy to take my money, but not happy to show me what my money gets me. For "Deliver as promised" to be meaningful, it kinda needs me to be able to see much more of what you're actually promising me. If you're not willing to let me see it, what you deliver can be pretty vague.


There are plenty of star fethers on the KS who will abase themselves at your feet and stroke your ego. What they say is generally as useless as the things said to you by the ones who hate you and everything you do. I'm not asking you to alter the bundles. I'm not asking for special snowflake treatment. I'm asking you to treat me with respect by showing myself and others what you actually plan to give me/us in return for the money 6 months in advance rather than vague descriptions, a small few renders and photos of raw prints, and too many uses of the word "best". (Even moreso an issue when you consider the "promotion" for the pre-order that doesn't seem to have happened.)

It's exacerbated by the fact that you guys seem very keen on closing the pre-order period this many months in advance yet not showing anything more than the little we've seen . It's a form of hard-sell that I find distasteful.

GET YOUR PRE-ORDERS IN NOW WHILE THERE'S STILL TIME BEFORE WE ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO CLOSE THEM!!!!! Items to be delivered in 6* months.
*If unforseen events occur, that 6 months may be 8, 10 or 12. Not that unforeseen events EVER happen to Kickstarters or Not-Kickstarters like this one. ever.



Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/04/16 12:33:41


Post by: grefven


 Azazelx wrote:
That render's a start, and not a bad one. But again, there's not much there, and you seem really loath to show more.

Here's the thing. My money is my time. I work to earn the money. It's the reimbursement i receive for spending the time being productive at my job. If my time earning my disposable income isn't worth your time to show me what I'd be getting for taking my money - which is my time, then I feel no desire to pay you for product 6+ months in advance.

You see it as matter of "trust". I guess in terms that trusting the community that said they wanted plastic sisters and going ahead and doing it. Fine. I trust you to deliver what you promise in terms of a bunch of models. It's just that what you're not willing to show me what you're promising. I see it as a matter of respect. At present, I don't feel that my time is respected.


Shieldwolf have mentioned several times the issues that occured with posting images that are not 100% (or at least very close to), as that can impact upon the company negatively, which already have happened. By posting unfinished WIPs, there is a great risk that these images are taken out of their context and spread around to others. And before you know it, these WIPs all of a sudden become "the finished product". And when people see a WIP and believe it is a finished product, they could potentially shun away from it, thinking that the product looks bad. I am convinced that once Shieldwolf have something that is complete and worth showing then they will show it. There is no gains in keeping things hidden as that will only serve to damage the company and the reputation. Everyone will just have to be patient. With that said one has to, of course, feel confident about paying for a product, and if that doesn't occur, then it will be harder to pay for it, obviously.



Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/04/16 12:49:35


Post by: Nostromodamus


Maybe the best solution would be to run the pre-order when they actually have finished examples of what they are offering then?

I know, radical idea...


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/04/16 19:16:01


Post by: Smokestack


I agree as well. I was looking forward to the fantasy paladins, but without more pictures then its a no go from me.

Without pictures or updates then what is the guarantee that we don't get the weird box hands that were on the original sci-fi renders. Or other choices like that, and then its "we did not know that people wanted that..."

I understand not wanting to show something that might not make it in, but its better than something making it in that no one wants.

Otherwise you are asking for 6 months advanced purchase with only the barest concept to go on. Which for me, means my money is going elsewhere.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/04/16 20:13:30


Post by: Original Timmy


@Shieldwolf, ok thanks, im sure helmets and weapons for the sci-fi kits have been mentioned in this thread but will there be enough helmets for each mini in the box? as i much prefer those than the "bare heads", what were the main weapon options ie how many single & two handed guns? and with the single handed guns what will be in the "bare" hand ie left bare, with knife or a grenade etc?

Now we know an estimated date for the close of pre-orders, like others have said now is the time to show everyone whats on offer, at mo its a hard decision for me to either drop 160 Euros on LAURA (sci-fi level-4) pre-order or get the 60 Euro FRANCESCA (sci-fi level-2) and wait for retail for the tanks, the savings on Laura is great but i dont need 80 space nuns especially if i dont know what the end result will be like and before you mention "trust"(see my comment below) we had a lot more images to go on when we are backing one of your KS and they ran for a max of 30 days!, my arm could be twisted once ive seen whats exactly on offer but even then i dont really need 80, so the sprues will need to be well thought out with enough weapons, heads etc and like someone mentioned no surprises like the original "box hands".

As for the mentioned "trust" i think that mainly works with us previous backers and a few that have either followed you on FB or KS but not a previous backer or did the research into your past dealings, but "trust" will not work with the majority of the paying "public", they buy items based on what they see at the time of purchase whether thats concept pictures, renders or the finial production item.

The comments here from us may sound harsh but we are being that way to get "points of view" across and for you to do/be your best a bit like "tuff love", imagine how much better(im not saying they are going bad, far from that) the pre-orders would be with everything on display in one of the fore-mentioned methods!


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/04/17 08:04:12


Post by: StygianBeach


Maybe a big red WIP over the pic will help get the message across that the renders are not the final product.

I like the hammer, but is it possible to scale it down?

I think a hammer head 60% of the size of that one would still be Heroic scale.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/04/19 20:58:07


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


I tried to upload some more pictures (sci-fi weaponry this time) approved for the plastic kits but for some reason I couldn't. More pictures to come.
Anyway, closing date of the preorders still not announced as we had (yet another) something new to deal with (argh!!!). We promise to notify in advance though :-)

We won't be able to check in tomorrow so I wish everyone a happy weekend from today!


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/04/20 08:10:39


Post by: Azazelx


grefven wrote:

Shieldwolf have mentioned several times the issues that occured with posting images that are not 100% (or at least very close to), as that can impact upon the company negatively, which already have happened. By posting unfinished WIPs, there is a great risk that these images are taken out of their context and spread around to others. And before you know it, these WIPs all of a sudden become "the finished product". And when people see a WIP and believe it is a finished product, they could potentially shun away from it, thinking that the product looks bad. I am convinced that once Shieldwolf have something that is complete and worth showing then they will show it. There is no gains in keeping things hidden as that will only serve to damage the company and the reputation. Everyone will just have to be patient. With that said one has to, of course, feel confident about paying for a product, and if that doesn't occur, then it will be harder to pay for it, obviously.


The thing with paying now while being patient and "keeping the faith" is that having an idea in my mind and hoping that it matches up to the ideas in Shieldwolf's minds and then their final product is the best way to never ever be disappointed in something. Because naturally they will match 100% with the only deviations being things that just blow me away with how much better they are. Because Shieldwolf has never set a foot wrong or had questionable design choices.


 Nostromodamus wrote:
Maybe the best solution would be to run the pre-order when they actually have finished examples of what they are offering then?
I know, radical idea...


Crazy idea. It'll never fly.


Actually. I can't see the benefit of them closing pre-orders this early at all. The cynic in me sees it as a lack of faith in their own product to get as much money now and lock it down as early as possible rather than locking it later when they're able to show people exactly what they're getting for a fully informed decision.

Trust is paying for a product that shows everything on offer. Blind faith is buying something that is barely shown and hoping for the best. I'm down with trust, but I'm not one for blind faith. It might be harsh, but it's how I see things.


Anyway, I might feth off from posting in this thread for awhile, since it seems that I've gone from a strong-if-critical supporter of Shieldwolf to posting in circles with my increasing frustration towards their reticence on showing anything substantial that's not rendered with a fish-eye lens effect.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/04/20 08:23:34


Post by: Nostromodamus


“Sisters of Faith” is proving to be a very apt name.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/04/24 10:30:49


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


@Nostromodamus
Indeed it is, if we didn't believe in it so much we wouldn't be emerged so much in all this after all!
Remember, it's the largest investment ever made from our company, we listen to the community and people soundly asked for them. Well, here we are doing our part to deliver! :-)

Anyway, more confirmed pieces that will all go on the sprues (both Fantasy and Sci-Fi). This time, the head versions, they will not be enough in a single box for all 20 minis to have helmeted or non-helmeted version, so it's mostly a mix of things.
Naturally all pre-orders from lvl-2 (Gabriella - Francesca) and more will be able to mix these between them if they want to split and get fully helmeted and fully non-helmeted groups.

We hope you like them as much as we do!





Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/04/25 11:29:49


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


Something from the Northern Alliance (our nordic race) for a change. A review of the Shieldmaidens plastic kit.
Koodos to Beasts of War for putting in the effort to show this off :-)




Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/05/11 07:25:11


Post by: Azazelx


A few more weapon & vehicle photos are on facebook. Posted around the same time that SW posted the torsos here, apparently. Dunno why they weren't posted here. Maybe Dakka is considered too combative for not enough financial return? Either way, these renders are the sort of thing we've been asking for the whole time since it's too early for sprue shots.









Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/05/11 07:57:14


Post by: ScarletRose


Well geez if they'd posted some actually pics and not expected blind buying of their products I might have actually given them some of my money.

As it is I've already spent a bunch on other warrior nuns, so I'll wait and see what Shieldwolf can make in terms of vehicles later.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/05/11 15:10:07


Post by: RiTides


Those guns look great! Easy to snip off the end (and ideally drill out the barrel) if you want a more "snub" look, too.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/05/11 16:22:18


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


I "pledged" for this because I have been happy with Shieldwolf's previous plastics and I felt like I had seen enough of the Sister's designs to get the general idea. (Also, I have a huge Bitz box to help convert away any troublesome spots.). Their plastics are really fun to work with for me, and I'm looking forward to receiving these ones.


That said, I wish they had enough helmeted heads for all the minis. If worse come to worse, I can cut an old Forgefather visor bit in half to make an augmetic eye...


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/06/05 10:36:49


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


June is going to see mainly Talliareum(R) Ogres releases.



Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/06/14 19:56:12


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured




Shieldwolf Miniatures

11 hrs ·
...
The "Preacher"... not else need be said!



Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/06/15 07:24:57


Post by: Padre


I just "pledged" for the Sabrina-level entry, for my Wife's SOB army.

AU$2.50 a trooper? Can't go wrong...


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/06/18 23:53:03


Post by: kestral


I like the faces on the sisters.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/06/19 12:08:44


Post by: Padre


According to their webpage, October 25 this year.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/06/21 05:52:28


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


Competition time!

Celebrating the World Cup we are sending out FREE prizes to the winners.
Just go on our FaceBook page and follow the instructions in order to take part!
Best of luck to everyone! :-D



PS. @BobtheInquisitor
Yep, October 25th this year is the date we have scheduled :-)


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/06/25 14:57:40


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


2 days remaining!

Remember that all comments must be posted by the 27th, 12.00 local time. Best of luck and let's hope this World Cup continues to be as exciting as it has commenced!


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/07/06 11:22:58


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


Casting in our facilities non-stop... :-)



Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/07/06 14:17:03


Post by: Gallahad


Nice looking piece of resin guys!


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/07/07 17:51:46


Post by: Mr Morden


Looks good. Show us some more!


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/07/08 18:50:15


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


@Mr. Morden

Not much else to show, not pretty or substantial I mean. Inserts are beign sculpted for the plastics as you know and promised, tanks are being casted as we speak (tank production should end early September).
We will be releasing a newsletter late this month to keep people as updated as possible. We have more things we have been working on to share with you :-)



Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/07/13 09:45:27


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


Super supper hyped about this! We are calling the new casting method WolfCast.
One is resin, the other is plastic(ish). The final results are so stunning, we have to work on making the production method worthwhile (currently it's not, too high temperatures and too costly for the moulds). WolfCast can really elevate the entire production capacity not only for our range but mainly for the 3rd parties we cast for!



Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/07/24 06:44:54


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


Heads up as this is going to be a very short discounted period (ends 31st of July) for our largest wargaming piece of our range, once again we appreciate all the support we are receiving from the Community!

http://www.shieldwolfminiatures.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=72


http://www.shieldwolfminiatures.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=74


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/07/24 08:47:37


Post by: FabricatorGeneralMike



Wow 80 euro's is a damn good price. Quick question did those Dryders you guys where going to make as a stretch goal from one of the KS's in the past ever make it into production?....they looked rather neat to just assemble and paint up.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/07/24 10:00:16


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


Considering they both have a considerable weight/size and come with free shipping worldwide, we have to agree :-)

Yeah, the Aracnomaidens... working on them...



Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/07/27 10:48:57


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


via facebook



Shieldwolf Miniatures updated their cover photo.

2 mins ·
...

The cliffside where 26 people were trapped between fire and cliff. Found hugged together, families, children.
The webstore will remain closed until further notice. All efforts from Shieldwolf will be instead directed for volunteering help to the ones affected near us.


they previously posted they were all ok, but really close to where these terrible fires happened


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/07/27 11:16:53


Post by: Albertorius


...wow. Vibes to everyone affected. Stay safe.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/09/10 06:07:29


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


Slowly getting back... it's going to be a sprint now, after the flooding and (far more important) the fires that wrecked disaster to our neighbours '-(





Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/09/10 18:46:48


Post by: adamsouza


Looking forward to them.

Them becoming available just ahead of the Adepta Sororitas playtest codex is fortuitous timing.


Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --------- Imperium Desertum - Immortalis FINAL HOURS! @ 2018/09/11 05:37:52


Post by: Shieldwolf Miniatures


Well, it will be late next month, it has been a very labour intensive period and we got stricken by malfortunes in the meanwhile (both the flooding but mostly the fires), but we should be able to make it just on time! :-)