To change votes its easier to switch the sealed boxs in transit between stations and counting halls actual goes in rigged goes out. Could it be done large scale? Who the hell knows but rigged votes very very very and on and on...unlikley.

I going to sleep for a few hours, but I fear the worst.

Apparently Gibraltar is almost ready to announce.

They reckon 90% to remain.

The 'worst' I fear is rioting from people who disagree with the course of democracy.

I may have voted leave, but feth it, if we remain I'm not going to hulk-out. That would be completely and utterly irresponsible. What I would urge anyone on the losing side to do is suck up the loss, and work with whatever they're given. At the end of the day, more people backed one choice over the other; that's democracy. Might as well do the best we can with what we have.

 Avatar 720 wrote:
The 'worst' I fear is rioting from people who disagree with the course of democracy.

I may have voted leave, but feth it, if we remain I'm not going to hulk-out. That would be completely and utterly irresponsible. What I would urge anyone on the losing side to do is suck up the loss, and work with whatever they're given. At the end of the day, more people backed one choice over the other; that's democracy. Might as well do the best we can with what we have.

Never! The only correct opinion is my own! Everyone else is wrong!


Kidding, it will be okay if your side loses. Have a little cry and get over it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Gibraltar


20000

19000 remain
823 leave.

No surprises there. Given the hostility from Spain recently, and their distance from GB, it's no wonder they want to stay in.

Wait a min, what system are they using?

The way sky news is reporting it, it sounds like first past the post.

"Remain wins Gibraltar! Remain wins Newcastle!"

Remain victory in Newcastle but by the narrowest of margins, 50.7%.

Will give Leave hope, but they do need to get some points on the board. Sunderland is rumored to be 60:40 to Leave.

EDIT: Orkney is 63% Remain. Not surprising, but I stand by Leave needing some victories.

I imagine there are no actual 'wins' based on region, simply a way of seeing how different areas voted.

Is it total votes.


But they are using the local voting areas so they can make pretty graphs.

Sunderland vote to Leave, as predicited. 61.3%, better than expected.

Clackmannanshire vote to Remain, 57%. It's early days, but Leave will be happier.

That Sunderland Vote.




Oh my!

Already seen the first person trying to incite rebellion against a Leave win.

Because democracy isn't democratic enough unless it's agreeing with you, right?

Anyone of either side who does this sort of thing is an idiot, who doesn't realise that they're encouraging further destabilisation of a country because they disliked a democratically-chosen result.

The BBC has it at 259790 to remain, 266721 to leave right now.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36612368

I'm not happy with how this is going (voted Remain) but it's stupid to incite rebellion if the result is not what you voted. What does that say if we don't adhere to the wishes of the majority in a democratic process?

I'm kind of the opinion if (when?) Remain wins, that basically means the UK as a whole *really* needs to get invested in this whole Europe thing. There'd effectively be a mandate, so no more sitting on the sidelines. To stretch the analogy to breaking point, no more threatening to take the ball and going home. Instead a case of taking the ball and running forward with it, with the rest of the 'team' following behind.

 Avatar 720 wrote:
Already seen the first person trying to incite rebellion against a Leave win.

Because democracy isn't democratic enough unless it's agreeing with you, right?

Anyone of either side who does this sort of thing is an idiot, who doesn't realise that they're encouraging further destabilisation of a country because they disliked a democratically-chosen result.

A rebellion is only justifiable if a leave vote was ignored in favour of remain, or vice versa. In other words, if the government was ignoring the democratic verdict.

Aye that Sunderland result o_0 Plus apparently turnout in the most high population pro-Remain areas(London, Glasgow) isn't as high as was expected. The pound has tanked 6% and the betting odds are going totally wonko. Still likely to go for Remain, but the foregone conclusion the pundits evidently expected when TV coverage started earlier is looking a lot more shoogly.

It is, as they say, going a bit squeeky-bum time.

Kettering 61% Leave, and we can apparently add Aberdeen to the list of places where the Remain vote hasn't turned out to expected levels.

Compel wrote:I'm kind of the opinion if (when?) Remain wins, that basically means the UK as a whole *really* needs to get invested in this whole Europe thing. There'd effectively be a mandate, so no more sitting on the sidelines. To stretch the analogy to breaking point, no more threatening to take the ball and going home. Instead a case of taking the ball and running forward with it, with the rest of the 'team' following behind.

Part of me has always wanted a Remain win. There's a not insignificant aspect of me that wants to the relative stability that comes with it, and wants to try this 'reformation from the inside'. The majority of me, however, doesn't believe it possible. Doesn't mean I won't help try should Remain win, though, and I hope that others do the same.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yodhrin wrote:
The pound has tanked 6%

To be honest, that was always going to happen in the event of Leave showing any sign of winning, not as a consequence of voting Leave, but as a consequence of Mr. Call-Me-Dave Cameron calling this back-asswards referendum to begin with. The stock market is an institute that is essentially one giant self-fulfilling prophecy; as soon as someone mentioned the pound's value would fall in the event of a Leave vote, its fate was sealed. Like a lot of the problems in this referendum, Cameron is the main person both sides should hold responsible.

 Compel wrote:
I'm kind of the opinion if (when?) Remain wins, that basically means the UK as a whole *really* needs to get invested in this whole Europe thing. There'd effectively be a mandate, so no more sitting on the sidelines. To stretch the analogy to breaking point, no more threatening to take the ball and going home. Instead a case of taking the ball and running forward with it, with the rest of the 'team' following behind.

What, do you mean we should accept further integration and "ever closer union"?

Feth that. The entire premise of the Remain campaign was that they're going to push for the EU to reform. If they then turn around and go all in on European Integration, then they will have effectively campaigned on a lie.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Compel wrote:
I'm kind of the opinion if (when?) Remain wins, that basically means the UK as a whole *really* needs to get invested in this whole Europe thing. There'd effectively be a mandate, so no more sitting on the sidelines. To stretch the analogy to breaking point, no more threatening to take the ball and going home. Instead a case of taking the ball and running forward with it, with the rest of the 'team' following behind.

What, do you mean we should accept further integration and "ever closer union"?

Feth that. The entire premise of the Remain campaign was that they're going to push for the EU to reform. If they then turn around and go all in on European Integration, then they will have effectively campaigned on a lie.

Reformation to make it more democratic doesn't preclude us taking a much more active leading role rather than trying to have it at arms reach yet wanting all the perks.

Bloody Nora - the UK's only living psephologist, Prof John Curtice, is tipping Leave as the favourites to win...o_0

Whatever the result, I will not be celebrating. I think there are dark times ahead, whether we're in the EU or out.

Celebrating? No. Preparing to make the most of whatever situation comes out of it? Yes.

I might not like it, but them's the breaks.

Sterlings taking a POUNDING!

POUND PLUNGING AFTER MASSIVE WIN FOR LEAVE IN SUNDERLAND pic.twitter.com/O1LOT8EXBu

— Joe Weisenthal (@TheStalwart) June 23, 2016

wait... I'm confused... lower is better or higher? o.O

 whembly wrote:


Sterlings taking a POUNDING!

POUND PLUNGING AFTER MASSIVE WIN FOR LEAVE IN SUNDERLAND pic.twitter.com/O1LOT8EXBu

— Joe Weisenthal (@TheStalwart) June 23, 2016

wait... I'm confused... lower is better or higher? o.O

Lower is better if you are selling from the UK to other countries, higher is better if you are buying from other countries. Lower make s your exports cheaper, but makes imports more expensive. That's the very condensed version.

 whembly wrote:


Sterlings taking a POUNDING!

POUND PLUNGING AFTER MASSIVE WIN FOR LEAVE IN SUNDERLAND pic.twitter.com/O1LOT8EXBu

— Joe Weisenthal (@TheStalwart) June 23, 2016

wait... I'm confused... lower is better or higher? o.O

Basically, if you were saving up for a Forgeworld purchase, now is the time to make it.

 djones520 wrote:

 whembly wrote:


Sterlings taking a POUNDING!

POUND PLUNGING AFTER MASSIVE WIN FOR LEAVE IN SUNDERLAND pic.twitter.com/O1LOT8EXBu

— Joe Weisenthal (@TheStalwart) June 23, 2016

wait... I'm confused... lower is better or higher? o.O

Basically, if you were saving up for a Forgeworld purchase, now is the time to make it.

*THATS* what I was getting at...

Is it too late to be on #TeamBrexit for purely selfish reasons? (cheaper Forgeworld )

Christ on a bike(I'm going to run out of forum-safe expletives if this goes on much longer) - Hartlepool votes 70% for Leave.

Scotland looks on track for somewhere around 60/40 Remain in total, but turnouts are looking more General Election-y than referendum-y which could hurt the UK-wide Remain total.

http://www.bbc.com/news/politics/eu_referendum/results

I'm watching from there. Really nifty lay out.

 djones520 wrote:
http://www.bbc.com/news/politics/eu_referendum/results

I'm watching from there. Really nifty lay out.

That is pretty slick site.

Ugh. Really want to stay up for this but I'm supposed to be starting work in 4 and a half hours.

69% voter turn out. I gotta say, that's not shabby.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Christ on a bike(I'm going to run out of forum-safe expletives if this goes on much longer) - Hartlepool votes 70% for Leave.

Scotland looks on track for somewhere around 60/40 Remain in total, but turnouts are looking more General Election-y than referendum-y which could hurt the UK-wide Remain total.

Possibly. It looks more than likely that the Southern, in particular the London constituencies (which are predicted to vote Remain), will be required to swing it for pro-EU.

Arglefethingbloodygits. There is evidently nothing, at all, that the collection of towering mediocrities that make up Scottish Labour cannot try and blame on the SNP.

A party that didn't even have enough members or cash to run a ground campaign at all and had to rely on UK Labour sending out paid-for postal flyers and Twitter ads is genuinely sitting there on screen trying to claim the SNP failed to run a good enough campaign and are responsible for the slightly-lower-than-expected turnout, despite their activists plodding around delivering leaflets by-hand and running street stalls all over the country.

Can't believe I ever voted for that complete shower.

Feth.

Leave might actually win at this rate.

i think Scotland is just tired of elections and referendums for the timing being. I think there has been at least three or four in 18 months. I certainly don't enjoy being bombarded with propaganda constantly.

Can someone drop some knowledge on me? Is this similar to an electoral college vote, where regions are more important then the overall numbers?

 djones520 wrote:
Can someone drop some knowledge on me? Is this similar to an electoral college vote, where regions are more important then the overall numbers?

Nope, this is a straight numbers game. The phrase is brought out at every election, but here, every vote really does count.

EDIT: Which is why it's disappointing to see turnouts like 60-70%. They're high compared to general elections, where there's a large amount of general apathy due to the way the voting is handled, but now when it's pure numbers and everyone's vote has the same value? There is no excuse to not vote, save untimely death. None. Not one.

I don't think so, this is a one man one vote, which is why the percentages are so important.

I really don't know whos going to win this.

Cheers

Andrew

 Avatar 720 wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
Can someone drop some knowledge on me? Is this similar to an electoral college vote, where regions are more important then the overall numbers?

Nope, this is a straight numbers game. The phrase is brought out at every election, but here, every vote really does count.

Ok. BBC's tracker is putting a lot of emphasis on the regions, so it made me curious.

Number of votes are more important.

It's not like an electoral debate, effectively voting for a majority to claim a seat in parliament. It has a national link for sure, but your mainly voting for your region's representative.

 djones520 wrote:

 Avatar 720 wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
Can someone drop some knowledge on me? Is this similar to an electoral college vote, where regions are more important then the overall numbers?

Nope, this is a straight numbers game. The phrase is brought out at every election, but here, every vote really does count.

Ok. BBC's tracker is putting a lot of emphasis on the regions, so it made me curious.

That's more just the gauge which regions are voting which way. What really matters is the semi-circular tracker at the top of the page.

 djones520 wrote:

 Avatar 720 wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
Can someone drop some knowledge on me? Is this similar to an electoral college vote, where regions are more important then the overall numbers?

Nope, this is a straight numbers game. The phrase is brought out at every election, but here, every vote really does count.

Ok. BBC's tracker is putting a lot of emphasis on the regions, so it made me curious.

That's an artifact of the counting process - votes are tallied on a regional basis at the counting venues then reported to the national returning officer/s, but the final tally is a straight up number-of-votes-for-each result nationwide.

It's also a focus because some of the polling has generated large enough regional subsamples for them to make some predictions on which way they would go, on which note another worrying development; Swansea was tipped to vote Remain by a modest margin but has in fact voted narrowly Leave. Earlier results has Leave up, sometimes substantially, on their expected total, but Swansea is the first region to come down completely for the other side.

Some City analysts are forecasting the pound to tank as much as 40% when the markets open if it's Leave. For reference, so-called "Black Wednesday" in the 90's "only" dropped the value of the pound by about 16%...

Sterling now at $1.40 to the pound, an the Ftse futures indicating a 5% fall at opening. Not going to be a good day tomorrow on current showing.

Lambeth and Glasgow have just provided two huge swings towards Remain, putting them back in the majority for the time being. Turnout not as expected though.

I should really sleep, I need to be in a Psychology study at 3pm...

EDIT: Wandsworth is huge for Remain as well. Definite shift considering two hours ago.

I'm surprised at the Glasgow result, not sure what I was expecting though.

Since I'm a southsider, Shawlands to be exact, I thought the vote was quite weak. The turnout isn't a big as the independence vote, and I wonder if this vote is a result of the Independence vote going against them, so lets kick the Tories.

Time will tell I suppose.

Cheers

Andrew


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 Frozocrone wrote:
I should really sleep, I need to be in a Psychology study at 3pm....

If this referendum isn't a study in the national psychology I don't know what is. Claim it as a study exercise?

Andrew

Looks like London might swing this either way in the end.

It's like watching a race of two equally matched horses. Both keep swapping sides, but they're only a tenth of the way around the track.

Remain now 100k ahead of Leave, and many people on my Twitter feed have suddenly stopped bemoaning and cursing the rampant idiocy of half their fellow countryfolk for bringing on the end of days, and have now started a circlejerk.

I don't think I've muted this many people on social media... ever, actually, never mind in one sitting. I can only imagine what it's been like for Remainers who've spent the last few hours dealing with it from obnoxious Leavers.

The behaviour I've seen tonight has been appalling.

 Avatar 720 wrote:
Remain now 100k ahead of Leave, and many people on my Twitter feed have suddenly stopped bemoaning and cursing the rampant idiocy of half their fellow countryfolk for bringing on the end of days, and have now started a circlejerk.

I don't think I've muted this many people on social media... ever, actually, never mind in one sitting. I can only imagine what it's been like for Remainers who've spent the last few hours dealing with it from obnoxious Leavers.

The behaviour I've seen tonight has been appalling.

Leave had a majority of 150,000 earlier. It's far, far too early to tell anything except that this is probably going to be closer than anyone predicted.

The question is, what would happen if it was 50% either way?

It is very exciting and even exasperating, because the results are always changing.
But, in the, end I don't believe "Leave" has a chance. It is always like this, you can't change the way the world is, even if they let you believe you can.

 Ketara wrote:

 Avatar 720 wrote:
Remain now 100k ahead of Leave, and many people on my Twitter feed have suddenly stopped bemoaning and cursing the rampant idiocy of half their fellow countryfolk for bringing on the end of days, and have now started a circlejerk.

I don't think I've muted this many people on social media... ever, actually, never mind in one sitting. I can only imagine what it's been like for Remainers who've spent the last few hours dealing with it from obnoxious Leavers.

The behaviour I've seen tonight has been appalling.

Leave had a majority of 150,000 earlier. It's far, far too early to tell anything except that this is probably going to be closer than anyone predicted.

The question is, what would happen if it was 50% either way?

Exactly 50%? Uhhh PM decides?

I'm not too sure.

London is literally the kingmaker in a straight vote count. So many people that a 65% slant in one direction can a side to move forward 50,000 votes. Those two large London constituencies that have voted remain account for most of the remain majority right now. Once the others start trickling in, it'll be interesting,

 Ketara wrote:

 Avatar 720 wrote:
Remain now 100k ahead of Leave, and many people on my Twitter feed have suddenly stopped bemoaning and cursing the rampant idiocy of half their fellow countryfolk for bringing on the end of days, and have now started a circlejerk.

I don't think I've muted this many people on social media... ever, actually, never mind in one sitting. I can only imagine what it's been like for Remainers who've spent the last few hours dealing with it from obnoxious Leavers.

The behaviour I've seen tonight has been appalling.

Leave had a majority of 150,000 earlier. It's far, far too early to tell anything except that this is probably going to be closer than anyone predicted.

The question is, what would happen if it was 50% either way?

I couldn't agree more. The largest region to declare so far has been Glasgow City, with ~250k votes out of an eligible ~360k, with a poor 56.2% turnout, in a City of 606k. London by itself has a population of over 8.5 million, and the first borough of it to vote only accounted for 140k. Even if we assume 1/3 of London is ineligible, and even somehow only gets a 56.2% turnout, you're still looking at 2-3 million votes.

This race isn't even close to finished.

 Frozocrone wrote:

 Ketara wrote:

 Avatar 720 wrote:
Remain now 100k ahead of Leave, and many people on my Twitter feed have suddenly stopped bemoaning and cursing the rampant idiocy of half their fellow countryfolk for bringing on the end of days, and have now started a circlejerk.

I don't think I've muted this many people on social media... ever, actually, never mind in one sitting. I can only imagine what it's been like for Remainers who've spent the last few hours dealing with it from obnoxious Leavers.

The behaviour I've seen tonight has been appalling.

Leave had a majority of 150,000 earlier. It's far, far too early to tell anything except that this is probably going to be closer than anyone predicted.

The question is, what would happen if it was 50% either way?

Exactly 50%? Uhhh PM decides?

I'm not too sure.

There's no set rule, the referendum isn't legally binding on the government, it's advisory, it's just that any government that overrode the result would do so at huge risk. So I gives it would come to 'if you can't make up your minds, we'll decide.

It's looking more and more like this is going to come down to turnout in London. They're getting big stonking percentage leads for Remain, but a lot of the other areas in England & Wales that were supposed to be close-ish results are going more like 60/40 Leave on high turnouts, and if that trend continues those votes are going to add up.

I think the lower-than-hoped turnout in Scotland and Glasgow particularly isn't that difficult to explain; voter fatigue.This is the fifth ballot and the second referendum we've had up here in the last two years, and our national elections were only just back in May.

Just seen the Moray vote!!!! 122 votes to carry the remain side. CFP is being remembered in the historic fishing fleets.

Mark Gettleson
‏@MarksOutOf100
Watford votes Leave. Educated commuter belt. This is all but over. Inner London is not *that* big #EUref

Seems too early...

Although... the leave seems to be inching closing to the lead.

Liverpool goes Remain, but the turnout is only 64% o_0

The lead has flipped so many times in the last few minutes that any regular bloke trying to guess the result may as well flip a coin.

Leave took the lead again. This one is going down to the wire. I think whatever happens, if we're genuinely looking at 1% either way, we're going to have a fair bit of strife. If it's 1% in favour of leave, the Government will try and ignore it, and if it;'s 1% the other way, the Government will be saying, 'Whelp, you all voted, you lost, shut up now' with no material acknowledgement of how close it came or change (which will piss a lot of people off).

One thing I do know is that if the vote is to leave, the SNP will be rubbing their hands in glee. They're desperate for any excuse to hold another referendum.

Like I said a page or two back, my fear is extremists taking to the streets. I personally hope that such an occurrence has been planned for, especially come a 1% or tighter result.

 Ketara wrote:
Leave took the lead again. This one is going down to the wire. I think whatever happens, if we're genuinely looking at 1% either way, we're going to have a fair bit of strife. If it's 1% in favour of leave, the Government will try and ignore it, and if it;'s 1% the other way, the Government will be saying, 'Whelp, you all voted, you lost, shut up now' with no material acknowledgement of how close it came or change (which will piss a lot of people off).

One thing I do know is that if the vote is to leave, the SNP will be rubbing their hands in glee. They're desperate for any excuse to hold another referendum.

To be fair, they'll also be rubbing their hands with glee if it's Remain with that narrow a margin, because nothing's likely to curdle public opinion of the UK up here faster than a bunch of tone-deaf English tabloid journos bleating endlessly about the "blahdy sweatees" sinking Glorious Britannia's graceful and just exit from the corrupt and constraining Continental Beast

 Yodhrin wrote:
Liverpool goes Remain, but the turnout is only 64% o_0

Forgive my ignorance, but, what were you expecting ? Is Liverpool famous for being in the "Remain" side ? 64% is a lot, isn't it ?

 godardc wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Liverpool goes Remain, but the turnout is only 64% o_0

What were you expecting ? Is Liverpool famous for being in the "Remain" side ? 64% is a lot, isn't it ?

Liverpool's quite an internationalist and socialist city, so remain was pretty much a given, 64% is low compared to the UK wide turnout in this vote.

The current totals are 49.9% Remain, 50.1% Leave.

Usually I stay up till there's a clear winner then have a sleep either content, or feeling begrudged. Instead I'll have to leave the fallout till mid-lunch. :(

Leave is ahead by 300K, a 51/49 split.

Edinburgh alone should almost eliminate that lead for the moment, but the worrying thing is we're starting to see more places where the Leave result was much higher than forecast, and Sheffield has gone Leave by 6K votes(51/49%).

I think 51/49 Leave is odds-on. Scotland meanwhile is on course for 65/35 Remain.

EDIT: Ayup, Edinburgh goes Remain by over 120K votes.

Any info on the age range of voters?

Not to say that they dictate all votes, but old folk tend to be more ..."conservative".

Read that as me sitting in on social dances and whenever the topic of the referendum was brought up, oh the racism.

There is talks about an old vs young issue, with young people being more accustomed to 'internationalism' as opposed to old people.

It also depend on education. University leavers are supposed to be remainers.

My own personal experience is an almost overwhelming majority of 'remain' voters are young people. I can't comment on why, as the ones I've seen haven't stated their reasoning so much as just regurgitated the same "eww, leave" comments over and over again, but I'm sure they had their reasons.

 welshhoppo wrote:
It also depend on education. University leavers are supposed to be remainers.

There is no denying the trend.

Leave has a 530,000 lead now. Whilst it's still early days, that's enough of a lead it'll take some shaking off.

I dunno, that graph rather destroys the "damn, half the people in the UK are uneducated idiots" claim I saw when Leave pulled ahead early. It looks to be closer to 80%.

That's yer narrow, atavistic, chauvinist Scottish Nationalism there, somehow resulting in the most internationalist, pro-EU part of the UK even above multicultural London. Rock eyebrow gif goes here.

 Yodhrin wrote:
That's yer narrow, atavistic, chauvinist Scottish Nationalism there, somehow resulting in the most internationalist, pro-EU part of the UK even above multicultural London.

I wasn't sure which one you wanted, so have several.

 Yodhrin wrote:
That's yer narrow, atavistic, chauvinist Scottish Nationalism there, somehow resulting in the most internationalist, pro-EU part of the UK even above multicultural London. Rock eyebrow gif goes here.

Yes yes, Scotland is better than England, haggis all the way, screw the Tory pigs, etc.

Meanwhile, we're about halfway through now, and Leave still have that half a million majority. Starting to look a little dicey for the remainers, this next half needs to go exceptionally well for them. Just wiping out the Leave lead isn't enough, they need to build one of their own.

What a shame I have no more money to spend on FW models, the exchange rate is better with every vote for the Leave.
More seriously, are you worrying now that the Leave seems to be really strong ?

Really happy that Manchester declared Remain, although turnout was not as expected and the % was not as high.

Still, I'm proud. Hoping Derby (my home town) is Remain. Not optimistic though.

ITV reports 80% victory for Leave and I'm inclined to agree. I just pray and hope that people who complain actually voted.

Personally, I'd question anybody who isn't worrying regardless of the outcome. There's so much that's just up in the air, and so much that's been dislodged by this whole charade, that anyone who's perfectly calm is suspect.

 Avatar 720 wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
That's yer narrow, atavistic, chauvinist Scottish Nationalism there, somehow resulting in the most internationalist, pro-EU part of the UK even above multicultural London.

I wasn't sure which one you wanted, so have several.

My thanks

 Ketara wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
That's yer narrow, atavistic, chauvinist Scottish Nationalism there, somehow resulting in the most internationalist, pro-EU part of the UK even above multicultural London. Rock eyebrow gif goes here.

Yes yes, Scotland is better than England, haggis all the way, screw the Tory pigs, etc.

Meanwhile, we're about halfway through now, and Leave still have that half a million majority. Starting to look a little dicey for the remainers, this next half needs to go exceptionally well for them. Just wiping out the Leave lead isn't enough, they need to build one of their own.

Just to be 100% clear - that was a bit of banter based on the irritatingly common perception of nats/the SNP, not a serious "haw haw, we're pure dead brilliant compared to them English fethers".

EDIT: And yes, the resilience of that Leave margin is becoming ever more worrying.

 godardc wrote:
What a shame I have no more money to spend on FW models, the exchange rate is better with every vote for the Leave.
More seriously, are you worrying now that the Leave seems to be really strong ?

Yes. It's going to be a disaster. The EU does so much more than the Leave campaign has let on. I wouldn't be surprised to see costs go up to cover the losses.

 Frozocrone wrote:

 godardc wrote:
What a shame I have no more money to spend on FW models, the exchange rate is better with every vote for the Leave.
More seriously, are you worrying now that the Leave seems to be really strong ?

Yes. It's going to be a disaster. The EU does so much more than the Leave campaign has let on. I wouldn't be surprised to see costs go up to cover the losses.

Such as?

I'm just curious about all the details. It seems to effect europeans and the british the most. I'm sure it'll effect the USA too but this seems to be a much bigger deal for all of you.

Why Remain and why Leave? What are the pros and cons for both? I'm curious to hear but something tells me it's been answered earlier in this thread somewhere. If i could get a rundown of all the best points for both i'd be happy.

 Yodhrin wrote:


Just to be 100% clear - that was a bit of banter based on the irritatingly common perception of nats/the SNP, not a serious "haw haw, we're pure dead brilliant compared to them English fethers".

Righty-ho,miscommunication then. Not to worry.

And we've had another million and a half or so votes roll in since my last post, and the majority remains intact. I'm starting to think this might actually be a 1% victory for leave, or a direct 50/50 tie. We're in for a rough week if so.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:
It also depend on education. University leavers are supposed to be remainers.

There is no denying the trend.

Maybe but perhaps the lower class people have more reason to want to leave (lower class as in poor). If you're well educated maybe you have more money and more reason to stay. There may be more to it. More data could be required i think. Perhaps a graph based on personal or family income matters as well.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
I'm just curious about all the details. It seems to effect europeans and the british the most. I'm sure it'll effect the USA too but this seems to be a much bigger deal for all of you.

Why Remain and why Leave? What are the pros and cons for both? I'm curious to hear but something tells me it's been answered earlier in this thread somewhere. If i could get a rundown of all the best points for both i'd be happy.

If you're a devout ideologue of remain, it's because leave are all racist facist morons and the EU protects us against all ill in the world (from war to famine) whilst being the progressive way of the future. If you're the opposite number, then you think Remain is a bunch of snotty, selfish traitors willing to sell their soul for a cheaper ipod and leaving will kick out all the immigrants and make Britain great again.

Meanwhile, everyone else in the middle as far as I can ascertain either has had enough of EU becoming increasingly federalised and worries about democratic accountability, or they think things function well enough as they are and there's no need to rock the boat economically.

Yet another million in and no change. Remain must be sweating.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:

 godardc wrote:
What a shame I have no more money to spend on FW models, the exchange rate is better with every vote for the Leave.
More seriously, are you worrying now that the Leave seems to be really strong ?

Yes. It's going to be a disaster. The EU does so much more than the Leave campaign has let on. I wouldn't be surprised to see costs go up to cover the losses.

Such as?

The UK does it's main business with the world by bargaining off the services of other EU countries. If we vote out, we literally have nothing to offer to the world. The USA, China and other trading superpowers, including the EU have made this clear - the UK by itself is not high on the list of countries people want to trade with.

While in the EU, we get free healthcare from other EU states, easier to travel between EU countries.

There are also a number of laws that protect our environment, rights, jobs which came from the EU.

Side note - the pound has dropped, which makes importing goods even more difficult, so people will be having to pay more to cover the costs that businesses used to import goods.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
I'm just curious about all the details. It seems to effect europeans and the british the most. I'm sure it'll effect the USA too but this seems to be a much bigger deal for all of you.

Why Remain and why Leave? What are the pros and cons for both? I'm curious to hear but something tells me it's been answered earlier in this thread somewhere. If i could get a rundown of all the best points for both i'd be happy.

You'll get very different answers depending on whether you asked a Remainer or a Leaver.

The evidence for me points towards Remain being the best option. Serious reform would have been needed though.

EDIT: The general jist of it is the most Leavers concerns were about Immigration, most Remainers concerns were about the Economy.

Best to get a full idea of the situation i suppose but i'm sure propaganda is going to come out of both sides.

It effects brits the most and they should take care of it in their fashion.

From what i heard it still sounds like the EU has done some really crappy things.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
I'm just curious about all the details. It seems to effect europeans and the british the most. I'm sure it'll effect the USA too but this seems to be a much bigger deal for all of you.

Why Remain and why Leave? What are the pros and cons for both? I'm curious to hear but something tells me it's been answered earlier in this thread somewhere. If i could get a rundown of all the best points for both i'd be happy.

I'm not British, so maybe I shouldn't speak, but:

Pro:
- as a member of the Union, you can be a student in every other country of the Union, it is called "Erasmus". If I wish, I can study in Germany, for 0€ more than in France (just the housing, etc).
- as a member of the Union, I can go through every country, travel as I want.
- as a member of the Union, I pay no tax (the "no border" thing and the 0 tax thing.are particulary handy for the firms)
- as a member of the Union I can work in every other country of the Union.


Cons:
- there is no border (there are no borders ? ) , so you can't arrest illegal immigrants / terrorists
- you are in competition with A LOT MORE people for jobs,housings, etc...
- as a wealthy country, UK give a lot of money to the Union, money used to develop the less developed countries of the Union.
- Brussels governs the Union, and the Union gorverns every country: your country isn't sovereign anymore
(and it is even worth for France, we haven't even our own money, so no more Monetary Policy).

I tried to summarize what I have in mind for the moment.

Just saw Nigel pull a "Bill Pulman"

“Let June 23rd go down in our history as our Independence Day!”

o.O

I am not extremely glad that I put in a couple of ebay orders with US retailers early yesterday morning, since the pound is now down to $1.35 o_0

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
I'm just curious about all the details. It seems to effect europeans and the british the most. I'm sure it'll effect the USA too but this seems to be a much bigger deal for all of you.

Why Remain and why Leave? What are the pros and cons for both? I'm curious to hear but something tells me it's been answered earlier in this thread somewhere. If i could get a rundown of all the best points for both i'd be happy.

As far as I can tell, a lot of the less extreme remainers believe in the ability of the UK to spearhead change and influence reform in the EU from inside, and leave at a later date if that is unsuccessful; the less extreme leavers believe that the EU is too stubborn and resistant to change for that to occur, and there is no guarantee that we will get another chance to leave on our own terms before the EU starts to form the superstate it's aiming to become.

I can see the merit of both, and my decision was really rather difficult, as I flipped undecided between both before eventually deciding that I believe the EU to be more resistant than the UK would be able to handle, and we'd end up either fully integrating into a state I don't feel would benefit anyone in its current form, or being kicked out on the EU's terms, not our own, and being left worse off than leaving of our own will. I don't think it'll be easy, or simple, but I believe that we stand a better chance this way. Due to my close feelings either way, though, I'm not averse to attempting the reform remainers want should the country vote to stay. Hell, the only other thing to do would be to sit around and winge about it, which doesn't get anyone anywhere but seems to be what a lot of people are intent on doing should the opposite side to them win.

Of course, as Ketara said, these arguments are often conveniently ignored by many people in order to peddle idiotic rhetoric instead.

Is it kinda messed up Brussels governs the EU? Wouldn't that give them a ridiculous amount of power?

When I said Brussels, in fact, it is the Parliament, which resides in Brussels. But in France everyone just says "Brussels".
There is a lot of people not elected having some power in the Union, and this upsets people.

It's like saying Washington DC controls America.

It doesn't actually, but all the government is based there.

Oh for the love of...

Farage is in full triumphalist gakwomble mode and just actually said, in front of cameras and people and everything, "We'll have done this without a single shot being fired..."

Up yours you animated fething Toby Jug, right up yours.

EDIT: And for a slightly less offensive but still moronic follow up: Scotland's only resident UKipper, David "Jabba the Hutt" Coburn MEP, was just asked by a journo if he was worried about the pound tanking, to which he replied no, his salary is paid in Euros....

This is reminding me a lot of the Obama vs Romney election. Obama won the popular vote by the smallest margin but our weird as **** electoral system had obama with most of the electoral votes. Given how stupid that system is and how deciding of a factor it is it should be gotten rid of just in general. I mean i heard Bush Jr. got in via electoral and not popular. It's really just a stupid system. However i'm getting a bit off topic.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Is it kinda messed up Brussels governs the EU? Wouldn't that give them a ridiculous amount of power?

This was a point of contention and a lot of newspapers reported that Cameron was trying to 'claw back' power from Brussels.

It also depends on what subject your talking about. Brussels has more power over UK fishing industries than it does for the NHS for example.

If its a Remain maybe we'll finally be shot of Farage.

Unlikely.

Hmn, and if it does come down to the wire, a little bit of electoral fraud can push it over in a smidge.

Oh, and bonus points for the parallel arguments re: autonomy between this and Scottish independence.

I had a conversation with the father-in-law a while back about this and a possible reason for the demographic on the age vote.

His generation was the ones who voted to join the common market as it was then known back in the day, and since that day, the common market has transformed into the present day EU with no consultation to the people who voted to join in the first place. Perhaps, and this is me trying to put 2 and 2 together, it may be the older voter is trying to undo a mistake they feel they made 40 years ago?

More than 2/3's in and the remain lead has acquired another 100,000 votes. Bar some major upset, it looks like Britain is about to exit the EU.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Oh for the love of...

Farage is in full triumphalist gakwomble mode and just actually said, in front of cameras and people and everything, "We'll have done this without a single shot being fired..."

Up yours you animated fething Toby Jug, right up yours.

Sadly Farage has gathered a huge amount of support because he's connected with the main issue that the Leave voters are concerned about.

He's vile though. Utterly vile, along with his party.

One of my main concerns about leaving is the amount of work that will need doing to patch us up, new laws, trade deals, careful diplomacy etc. Unfortunately, keeping UKIP out in the next GE also falls under this, but the Tories also need to be turfed out, and Labour are in no fit state to rule. Difficult, but nothing worth doing is ever easy.

 AndrewC wrote:
I had a conversation with the father-in-law a while back about this and a possible reason for the demographic on the age vote.

His generation was the ones who voted to join the common market as it was then known back in the day, and since that day, the common market has transformed into the present day EU with no consultation to the people who voted to join in the first place. Perhaps, and this is me trying to put 2 and 2 together, it may be the older voter is trying to undo a mistake they feel they made 40 years ago?

I think that, combined with a memory of Britain being alright on it's own. To the younger generation, privileges like backpacking Europe with no visa issues are like the NHS and 8 hour work days; they take them for granted without understanding how they got there.

 AndrewC wrote:
I had a conversation with the father-in-law a while back about this and a possible reason for the demographic on the age vote.

His generation was the ones who voted to join the common market as it was then known back in the day, and since that day, the common market has transformed into the present day EU with no consultation to the people who voted to join in the first place. Perhaps, and this is me trying to put 2 and 2 together, it may be the older voter is trying to undo a mistake they feel they made 40 years ago?

Sometimes we see our elders as racist bigots with not as good of an education but they have experience often and sometimes that's worth more than what you're taught in school (as that can be somebody pushing views on you whereas experience is just what you've seen yourself). Perhaps they know how the EU is and has been.

 Ketara wrote:
More than 2/3's in and the remain lead has acquired another 100,000 votes. Bar some major upset, it looks like Britain is about to exit the EU.

Aye...

I mean, as a red-neck 'Murrian, I'm happy that the UK regained its sovereignty... but a bit mystified at what seems to be panic selling in the markets.

Christ, remain just collected another 100,000 lead, taking them to 700,000 ahead. This is looking more and more certain. At best, remain might be able to wipe out the advantage, I don't see them taking more than 50% now.

EDIT: Make that 750,000 ahead.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

 AndrewC wrote:
I had a conversation with the father-in-law a while back about this and a possible reason for the demographic on the age vote.

His generation was the ones who voted to join the common market as it was then known back in the day, and since that day, the common market has transformed into the present day EU with no consultation to the people who voted to join in the first place. Perhaps, and this is me trying to put 2 and 2 together, it may be the older voter is trying to undo a mistake they feel they made 40 years ago?

Sometimes we see our elders as racist bigots with not as good of an education but they have experience often and sometimes that's worth more than what you're taught in school (as that can be somebody pushing views on you whereas experience is just what you've seen yourself). Perhaps they know how the EU is and has been.

Alternatively, they've lived their lives enjoying the benefits of EU membership and are now screwing the younger generation out of them just like they've done with housing and pensions.

As it seems you will leave us, I hope and wish the EU won't "punish" you, just to discourage others to do the same.
But I think they will.

Leave up 700k with about 10m left to count. Remain would need to take 57% of the vote to bring it back in. Pretty tough road.

 whembly wrote:

 Ketara wrote:
More than 2/3's in and the remain lead has acquired another 100,000 votes. Bar some major upset, it looks like Britain is about to exit the EU.

Aye...

I mean, as a red-neck 'Murrian, I'm happy that the UK regained its sovereignty... but a bit mystified at what seems to be panic selling in the markets.

Stock markets being stock markets. Someone predicted that a Leave vote would have economic impacts, and being the self-fulfilling prophecy that the market is, it came true.

Of course, this isn't the fault of either side, as much as some people may wish that. A LOT of voters seem to be forgetting that, had Cameron not called this stupid referendum in the first place, we'd not be in the clusterfeth we are now. On the ground neighbours are tearing into each other like animals, whilst the man who started it all off is sipping expensive brandy and watching the great unwashed splinter.

Triple9 wrote:
Leave up 700k with about 10m left to count. Remain would need to take 57% of the vote to bring it back in. Pretty tough road.

Judging by the fact Scotland is spent and the results so far, we're out. Life just got very, very interesting. I can't wait to see the papers. There's no way remain is going to pull any kind of substantial majority anymore.

 godardc wrote:
As it seems you will leave us, I hope and wish the EU won't "punish" you, just to discourage others to do the same.
But I think they will.

Hey, it's alright. The EU will do what we all knew it was going to do which is negotiate trade deals with us which are beneficial to them and people will claim that they are "punishing" us rather than just doing what they're meant to do.

It should be a Law about the self-fulfilling prophecy: no one allowed to speak about stock market during a referendum !

Jeebus jumpin Jehoshaphat, Birmingham have gone Leave. Game over man, game over...

I'll need to filch this old guy out of the loft to sleep with tonight. :(

 Wyrmalla wrote:
I'll need to filch this old guy out of the loft to sleep with tonight. :(

I wouldn't, you'll wake up surrounded by more of them.

Bloody immigrants!

Well if you all are leaving and it trashes your economy at least it will make forgeworld cheaper for me

 Yodhrin wrote:
Jeebus jumpin Jehoshaphat, Birmingham have gone Leave. Game over man, game over...

Nah... blame Liz:


Ahem... Liz, can I have that pillow please?

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

 AndrewC wrote:
I had a conversation with the father-in-law a while back about this and a possible reason for the demographic on the age vote.

His generation was the ones who voted to join the common market as it was then known back in the day, and since that day, the common market has transformed into the present day EU with no consultation to the people who voted to join in the first place. Perhaps, and this is me trying to put 2 and 2 together, it may be the older voter is trying to undo a mistake they feel they made 40 years ago?

Sometimes we see our elders as racist bigots with not as good of an education but they have experience often and sometimes that's worth more than what you're taught in school (as that can be somebody pushing views on you whereas experience is just what you've seen yourself). Perhaps they know how the EU is and has been.

Alternatively, they've lived their lives enjoying the benefits of EU membership and are now screwing the younger generation out of them just like they've done with housing and pensions.

I'd be curious to hear how you come to that conclusion assuming that you're not just playing devils advocate?

The leave lead just hit 840,000. This is brutal.

Great Britain is too great to be a kicked around province of the EUSSR. Bring back the Empire! Brexit FTW.

The bear's pretty cute I have to admit.

So, may I go to the bed now ? It is very late here (or very early ! ) and I want to sleep
But I want to know the result !

 Wyrmalla wrote:
I'll need to filch this old guy out of the loft to sleep with tonight. :(

The Ty bears were doing alright on ebay recently. Just don't sell it to a European country the exchange rates crap at the moment.....

Thank you wales!

Wales Leave 854,572

Wales Remain 772,347


Scotland - we need to have a chat..

Scotland Leave 1,018,322

Scotland Remain 1,661,191

Seems like it'll be over in an hour or two. This is picking up steam pretty fast. I'd still say give both sides a fair chance at this. I remember when they did the Obama vs Romney popular votes and then they were like "Oh wait california hasn't shown votes yet." and then Obama got a significant lead. Dunno if any majority 'Remain' parts are left but i'd say it's still sorta early to say.

London is starting to run out of constituencies, and that's supposedly Remain's stronghold. The Leave lead stays steady at 830,000. We're literally down to the last fifth now. Either Remain gets a resounding success and takes everything or we're out.

And that's that - every single Scottish region has voted Remain(one of them by an admittedly squeaky wee margin). 62% Remain nationwide.

I think it's bed time then.

BBC just announced a leave win.

Following this, we need to unite the country. Regardless of result now, the country is split on this and if London/Scotland want in and everyone else bar some counties vote Out, we need to reform the country and come out stronger.

Birmingham voted Leave...it's over. Remain needed this. Unless London pulls something out the bag, but that's probably not going to happen.

Official turnout was 72%. Pretty good, but not as high as the Scottish Independence Referendum.

Today is going to suck. My Leave voting friend is visiting me later...le sigh. Is Euro 2016 on today? XD

So with a leave it is pretty certain that scotland will leave the UK correct?

The BBC just forecast a Leave win. Nobody seriously thinks Remain can win anymore. Show's almost over folks, Leave lead widened to 880,000,

It 'aint over 'till it's over!

'remain' just pulled back a significant chunk..

 Ustrello wrote:
So with a leave it is pretty certain that scotland will leave the UK correct?

Not certain no, but more likely than it was yesterday.

I have to admit, I'm very, very surprised. I never really thought UK would Leave.
Your resolve commands respect.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:
So with a leave it is pretty certain that scotland will leave the UK correct?

Not certain no, but more likely than it was yesterday.

I mean wasn't stay razor thin last time? So you think that a leave EU vote would give the independent party a huge boost

 godardc wrote:
I have to admit, I'm very, very surprised. I never really thought UK would Leave.
Your resolve commands respect.

Quite frankly, the population has voted against every governmental and political/business elite's recommendations here. If that isn't a sign of how badly out of touch the leadership across Europe is, I don't know what is.

Regardless, it would appear Europe will be doing its soul searching on its own.

godardc wrote:I have to admit, I'm very, very surprised. I never really thought UK would Leave.
Your resolve commands respect.

Or pity, depending on how the next 20 years go.

Ustrello wrote:So with a leave it is pretty certain that scotland will leave the UK correct?

Could certainly trigger another referendum for them. Despite what economists think, the UK might come out stronger outside the EU. Scotland might want to still be a part of that.
The SNP would certainly push for it at least. Salmond believes they could.

I can't believe there will be ANOTHER polling in Scotland
How much money does that cost ?

 Ustrello wrote:
So with a leave it is pretty certain that scotland will leave the UK correct?

Certain? No.
Cause a huge debate and demand for a further independence referendum? Yes.

Will Scotland get one? Buggered if I know. Expect lots of trouble, raised voices and 45% badges to start appearing.

It would never work for us being in the EU. Our Head of State is also head of state for 15 other countries, including two of some of the world's richest countries Canada and Australia. We are already in a better union, the commonwealth realms, that is the union we should be working to build up. At least we all speak the same language.

 Ustrello wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:
So with a leave it is pretty certain that scotland will leave the UK correct?

Not certain no, but more likely than it was yesterday.

I mean wasn't stay razor thin last time? So you think that a leave EU vote would give the independent party a huge boost

Not necessarily. With the oil market crashing, Scotland's economy has gone to the dogs somewhat, it would be quantifiably poorer separate to the UK, even if we leave the Single Market. Not to mention that with everything going on now, nobody is going to have time to reorganise another scottish referendum in the immediate future. Perhaps in five years if things go badly.

Leave lead at 950,000 now.

A bit of bluster obviously, but the SNP, after the referendum said that if the UK left the EU they were holding another referendum regardless of London's permission.

Bluster of course.

But aye, to bed. Another day to be face palming against conservatives.

Labour really need to pull their finger out, now. The Tories are in disarray and won't last the next GE, the Lib Dems are all but gone on a governmental level, and we have UKIP riding this momentum all the way to the next election. If Labour can become the government this country has needed, and will continue to need, we can usurp the Tories, block UKIP--and hopefully kill the party off for good now it's achieved its goal of independence and serves no functional purpose--and start towards whatever future we just set ourselves on a course for.

If they can't do that... Well, I'm not sure even Remaining would have saved them.

It's my sincere hope that all the people throwing tantrums about the result will calm the hell down and actually try to improve this country for the better, but seeing as how many of them have vowed to simply jump ship and abandon it, I doubt we'll be so lucky.

Frankie Boyle:

Still, it's been good to see an election where we've focussed on what unites us, which, sadly, is hatred.

Northern Ireland; you're not helping!

Northern Ireland Leave 349,442

Northern Ireland Remain 440,437

It is actually rather shameful that many voted remain.

That last bit is most certainly not appropriate, thanks. motyak

 AndrewC wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

 AndrewC wrote:
I had a conversation with the father-in-law a while back about this and a possible reason for the demographic on the age vote.

His generation was the ones who voted to join the common market as it was then known back in the day, and since that day, the common market has transformed into the present day EU with no consultation to the people who voted to join in the first place. Perhaps, and this is me trying to put 2 and 2 together, it may be the older voter is trying to undo a mistake they feel they made 40 years ago?

Sometimes we see our elders as racist bigots with not as good of an education but they have experience often and sometimes that's worth more than what you're taught in school (as that can be somebody pushing views on you whereas experience is just what you've seen yourself). Perhaps they know how the EU is and has been.

Alternatively, they've lived their lives enjoying the benefits of EU membership and are now screwing the younger generation out of them just like they've done with housing and pensions.

I'd be curious to hear how you come to that conclusion assuming that you're not just playing devils advocate?

Well, they've enjoyed free movement, free trade and free healthcare across the whole EU, which may now disappear for younger people. As for housing? Look at the numbers of young people renting vs. owning their own homes. Pensions? Look at how much older people get paid in their pensions compared to what younger people are predicted to get paid, not to mention the ever increasing pension age.

Also, the UK may have just hamstrung it's science sector which, thanks to access to EU funding, cooperation, personnel and facilities, was outperforming the US. So yeah, pretty annoyed as that could have a pretty detrimental effect on my future career.

Free healthcare ?

 SolarCross wrote:
It is actually rather shameful that many voted remain.

cleaning up

Well that doesn't make you sound like a serial killer

 SolarCross wrote:
It is actually rather shameful that many voted remain.

cleaning up

You're joking right? Because if so, poor taste. And if not, I suggest you re-evaluate your life.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:


Also, the UK may have just hamstrung it's science sector which, thanks to access to EU funding, cooperation, personnel and facilities, was outperforming the US. So yeah, pretty annoyed as that could have a pretty detrimental affect on my future career.

Oh so they pay us some of the money back that they take from us and that is supposed to hurt us when they stop? Lol.

 godardc wrote:
Free healthcare ?

As part of the EU we could healthcare paid for by the NHS anywhere in the EU. If we leave that is not guaranteed.

 Ustrello wrote:

 SolarCross wrote:
It is actually rather shameful that many voted remain.

cleaning up

Well that doesn't make you sound like a serial killer

Yeah sounds like somebody should be checked for weapons so there are no sprees (at least of the killing variety).

I'm sorry, what is the NHS ?

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 godardc wrote:
Free healthcare ?

As part of the EU we could healthcare paid for by the NHS anywhere in the EU. If we leave that is not guaranteed.

I'm sure most people will be able to fork out £20 for insurance like when travelling to America, or indeed, anywhere else. It only takes ten minutes on the internet.

 SolarCross wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:


Also, the UK may have just hamstrung it's science sector which, thanks to access to EU funding, cooperation, personnel and facilities, was outperforming the US. So yeah, pretty annoyed as that could have a pretty detrimental affect on my future career.

Oh so they pay us a some of the money back that they take from us and that is supposed to hurt us when they stop? Lol.

No, they facilitate cooperation, funding and resources which have made the EU the scientific capital of the world. The UK punches above its weight when it comes to research, but only thanks to our international research. Our domestic research (i.e done all in country) is not as good.

 godardc wrote:
I'm sorry, what is the NHS ?

It was the National Health Service before the Tories decided to start privatising it bit by bit.

 Ketara wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 godardc wrote:
Free healthcare ?

As part of the EU we could healthcare paid for by the NHS anywhere in the EU. If we leave that is not guaranteed.

I'm sure most people will be able to fork out £20 for insurance like when travelling to America, or indeed, anywhere else. It only takes ten minutes on the internet.

And for people who have pre-existing conditions or more complex medical needs?

 Ketara wrote:
[
You're joking right? Because if so, poor taste. And if not, I suggest you re-evaluate your life.

Yeah it is a joke, sort of. I mean it is treachery, but probably not quite deserving of the death penalty.

So question. Do you guys have to legit leave if this goes through with most people voting to leave? I thought people said this is more of something the government can merely consider rather than follow through with. That said it'd really anger a lot of people if they didn't follow through.

@SolarCross: Well it was in fairly poor taste and you may want to re-evaluate your posts next time so a mod doesn't ban you. I'm not mod though so whatever. I'll leave it in their hands.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Ketara wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 godardc wrote:
Free healthcare ?

As part of the EU we could healthcare paid for by the NHS anywhere in the EU. If we leave that is not guaranteed.

I'm sure most people will be able to fork out £20 for insurance like when travelling to America, or indeed, anywhere else. It only takes ten minutes on the internet.

And for people who have pre-existing conditions or more complex medical needs?

Then you are in precisely the same position you would be in when visiting most of the world.

With all due respect, the world is not a single government or institution, and expecting other countries to bend over backwards for you is somewhat baffling. Nobody is making you go abroad if you are physically incapable of travelling without regular or expensive treatment.

So results are showing that the UK is going to forge its own path and leave.

Whats that mean for them?

Well, as of right now the Brexit is happening. Witness the start of a new global economic disaster:

UK stocks have dropped by 9% and it's still 4 hours to market's open.
The Sterling Pound is in freefall, dropping 10.5% in value from $1.49 on the dollar to $1.32 on the dollar with no signs of slowing.
Japanese stocks have fallen by 10% as UK investors are trying to midigate loses by shifting investments there. Japan has just halted trading.

Gonna love seeing the economic fallout from this. Thanks UK. Thanks alot.

So, for example, if you were healed in France during a travel, the NHS would have paid for you, and now, it may be over ?

If they refused, it would be the first time in history that parliment went against the will of the people...

 RivenSkull wrote:
Well, as of right now the Brexit is happening. Witness the start of a new global economic disaster:

UK stocks have dropped by 9% and it's still 4 hours to market's open.
The Sterling Pound is in freefall, dropping 10.5% in value from $1.49 on the dollar to $1.32 on the dollar with no signs of slowing.
Japanese stocks have fallen by 10% as UK investors are trying to midigate loses by shifting investments there.

Gonna love seeing the economic fallout from this. Thanks UK. Thanks alot.

If you'd care to rejoin the British Empire, you might be able to stabilise it. After all, clearly you value economic stability over national sovereignty?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Remain lead just hit a million. Show is definitely over folks.

 Ketara wrote:

 RivenSkull wrote:
Well, as of right now the Brexit is happening. Witness the start of a new global economic disaster:

UK stocks have dropped by 9% and it's still 4 hours to market's open.
The Sterling Pound is in freefall, dropping 10.5% in value from $1.49 on the dollar to $1.32 on the dollar with no signs of slowing.
Japanese stocks have fallen by 10% as UK investors are trying to midigate loses by shifting investments there.

Gonna love seeing the economic fallout from this. Thanks UK. Thanks alot.

If you'd care to rejoin the British Empire, you might be able to stabilise it. After all, clearly you value economic stability over national sovereignty?

Nah... we'd add to our family.

England 51st state...
N. Ireland 52nd state...
Scotland 53rd state...
Wales 54th state...

and... to round it up:
Puerto Rico 55th state...

Then we can celebrate TWO Independence Day! (6/23 & 7/4)

 Ketara wrote:

 RivenSkull wrote:
Well, as of right now the Brexit is happening. Witness the start of a new global economic disaster:

UK stocks have dropped by 9% and it's still 4 hours to market's open.
The Sterling Pound is in freefall, dropping 10.5% in value from $1.49 on the dollar to $1.32 on the dollar with no signs of slowing.
Japanese stocks have fallen by 10% as UK investors are trying to midigate loses by shifting investments there.

Gonna love seeing the economic fallout from this. Thanks UK. Thanks alot.

If you'd care to rejoin the British Empire, you might be able to stabilise it. After all, clearly you value economic stability over national sovereignty?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Remain lead just hit a million. Show is definitely over folks.

Where are you seeing that? BBC and CNN are both showing that Leave is winning

Wait so question from an Aussie-American Halfbreed...

What are the arguments for and against?

 Ketara wrote:


Then you are in precisely the same position you would be in when visiting most of the world.

With all due respect, the world is not a single government or institution, and expecting other countries to bend over backwards for you is somewhat baffling. Nobody is making you go abroad if you are physically incapable of travelling without regular or expensive treatment.

So it's okay to be angry at some vague idea of "sovereignty" but baffling to be upset at actual restrictions to my life?

Seems a bit backwards to me.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 Ketara wrote:

 RivenSkull wrote:
Well, as of right now the Brexit is happening. Witness the start of a new global economic disaster:

UK stocks have dropped by 9% and it's still 4 hours to market's open.
The Sterling Pound is in freefall, dropping 10.5% in value from $1.49 on the dollar to $1.32 on the dollar with no signs of slowing.
Japanese stocks have fallen by 10% as UK investors are trying to midigate loses by shifting investments there.

Gonna love seeing the economic fallout from this. Thanks UK. Thanks alot.

If you'd care to rejoin the British Empire, you might be able to stabilise it. After all, clearly you value economic stability over national sovereignty?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Remain lead just hit a million. Show is definitely over folks.

Where are you seeing that? BBC and CNN are both showing that Leave is winning

My mistake, I meant Leave,

 Ketara wrote:

 RivenSkull wrote:
Well, as of right now the Brexit is happening. Witness the start of a new global economic disaster:

UK stocks have dropped by 9% and it's still 4 hours to market's open.
The Sterling Pound is in freefall, dropping 10.5% in value from $1.49 on the dollar to $1.32 on the dollar with no signs of slowing.
Japanese stocks have fallen by 10% as UK investors are trying to midigate loses by shifting investments there.

Gonna love seeing the economic fallout from this. Thanks UK. Thanks alot.

If you'd care to rejoin the British Empire, you might be able to stabilise it. After all, clearly you value economic stability over national sovereignty?

If it would mean the Queen could dissolve our Congress like she did in Australia in 1975 and let us reelect a completely new body, that might be preferable.

Pound Sterling is fake money these days, same as dollar, euros and the rest, whether they go up or down means about as much as the trade in Pogs. Gold is going up.

Time to get my Credit Card ready for tomorrow.

For reasons.

 RivenSkull wrote:

 Ketara wrote:

 RivenSkull wrote:
Well, as of right now the Brexit is happening. Witness the start of a new global economic disaster:

UK stocks have dropped by 9% and it's still 4 hours to market's open.
The Sterling Pound is in freefall, dropping 10.5% in value from $1.49 on the dollar to $1.32 on the dollar with no signs of slowing.
Japanese stocks have fallen by 10% as UK investors are trying to midigate loses by shifting investments there.

Gonna love seeing the economic fallout from this. Thanks UK. Thanks alot.

If you'd care to rejoin the British Empire, you might be able to stabilise it. After all, clearly you value economic stability over national sovereignty?

If it would mean the Queen could dissolve our Congress like she did in Australia in 1975 and let us reelect a completely new body, that might be preferable.

Oh snap! The Queen can do that?!?!

Ketara... we may need to take you up on that offer.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Ketara wrote:


Then you are in precisely the same position you would be in when visiting most of the world.

With all due respect, the world is not a single government or institution, and expecting other countries to bend over backwards for you is somewhat baffling. Nobody is making you go abroad if you are physically incapable of travelling without regular or expensive treatment.

So it's okay to be angry at some vague idea of "sovereignty" but baffling to be upset at actual restrictions to my life?

Seems a bit backwards to me.

One is a concept of national frameworks. The other one is an obsession with the personal. I can accept that you dislike the fact that foreign governments will not bend over backwards for you in the future, I wish America would allow me to borrow a tank for the weekend. You have every right to be annoyed at whatever limitations on your life exist, and strive to change them by whatever means are in your power. But you may find that foreign governments do not share your concern for your own wellbeing, no matter how fervently you wish they did. And unfortunately, the collective decision of the British people here is also not based around that need of yours. Perhaps you view that as backwards, and that is your right.

 Ketara wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Ketara wrote:


Then you are in precisely the same position you would be in when visiting most of the world.

With all due respect, the world is not a single government or institution, and expecting other countries to bend over backwards for you is somewhat baffling. Nobody is making you go abroad if you are physically incapable of travelling without regular or expensive treatment.

So it's okay to be angry at some vague idea of "sovereignty" but baffling to be upset at actual restrictions to my life?

Seems a bit backwards to me.

One is a concept of national frameworks. The other one is an obsession with the personal. I can accept that you dislike the fact that foreign governments will not bend over backwards for you in the future, I wish America would allow me to borrow a tank for the weekend. You have every right to be annoyed at whatever limitations on your life exist, and strive to change them by whatever means are in your power. But you may find that foreign governments do not share your concern for your own wellbeing, no matter how fervently you wish they did.

One is an idea made up for people to feel good about the little patch of dirt they happened to be born on, the other has lasting effects on peoples lives.

They are not "bending over backwards" for me. They still get paid, it just means that every person in the UK would be free to travel without worrying about health insurance. That is a big deal for a lot of people.

Well Boris Johnson is looking good for being the new PM. I've always liked mad boris.

Just woke up to this... God Bless Democracy.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:


They are not "bending over backwards" for me. They still get paid, it just means that every person in the UK would be free to travel without worrying about health insurance. That is a big deal for a lot of people.

As it is clearly that simple, I suggest you propose this to every government in the world on the behalf of the British people. I wish you every success!

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

Well, they've enjoyed free movement, free trade and free healthcare across the whole EU, which may now disappear for younger people. As for housing? Look at the numbers of young people renting vs. owning their own homes. Pensions? Look at how much older people get paid in their pensions compared to what younger people are predicted to get paid, not to mention the ever increasing pension age.

Also, the UK may have just hamstrung it's science sector which, thanks to access to EU funding, cooperation, personnel and facilities, was outperforming the US. So yeah, pretty annoyed as that could have a pretty detrimental effect on my future career.

I'm trying to formulate a response to this that does not come across as a personal attack.

Free movement? We had that for a long time ago. Free trade? Perhaps you may have a point, but we'll have to wait and see for the dust to settle on that issue. Free healthcare? No we didn't we had a reciprocal agreement that allowed us access to healthcare in member states countries while we had an E111. Housing? This has nothing to do with the EU and the present housing shortage is an issue of our own. Pensions? The people who are voting are by and large existing on the state pension! Also pensions are not a remit of the EU last I checked.

Science, I have a friend who completed his PHD in Organic Chemistry concentrating on research. On receipt of his PHD he immediately moved to the US, so problems with brain drain existed a long time ago.

Your concerns are valid, but they have nothing to do with the membership (or lack of) of the EU.

I get that your angry about the result, but you may reconsider the direction that you're aiming it.

Cheers

Andrew

Leave now has a lead of 1,100,000. Hopefully that will be enough the government can't kick it into the long grass the way I suspect they would any figure under 1,000,000.

 AndrewC wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

Well, they've enjoyed free movement, free trade and free healthcare across the whole EU, which may now disappear for younger people. As for housing? Look at the numbers of young people renting vs. owning their own homes. Pensions? Look at how much older people get paid in their pensions compared to what younger people are predicted to get paid, not to mention the ever increasing pension age.

Also, the UK may have just hamstrung it's science sector which, thanks to access to EU funding, cooperation, personnel and facilities, was outperforming the US. So yeah, pretty annoyed as that could have a pretty detrimental effect on my future career.

I'm trying to formulate a response to this that does not come across as a personal attack.

Free movement? We had that for a long time ago. Free trade? Perhaps you may have a point, but we'll have to wait and see for the dust to settle on that issue. Free healthcare? No we didn't we had a reciprocal agreement that allowed us access to healthcare in member states countries while we had an E111. Housing? This has nothing to do with the EU and the present housing shortage is an issue of our own. Pensions? The people who are voting are by and large existing on the state pension! Also pensions are not a remit of the EU last I checked.

Science, I have a friend who completed his PHD in Organic Chemistry concentrating on research. On receipt of his PHD he immediately moved to the US, so problems with brain drain existed a long time ago.

Your concerns are valid, but they have nothing to do with the membership (or lack of) of the EU.

I get that your angry about the result, but you may reconsider the direction that you're aiming it.

Cheers

Andrew

I realise that (at the moment at least) that housing and pensions had nothing to do with the EU (though I believe the EU was looking into introducing a bill which would cap the cost of renting). My point was that this is yet another example of older people making a decision that will affect younger people a lot more than them, like the changes to state pensions and them buying up all the houses to let them out and further fund their retirement.

Also, with the introduction of frameworks such as Horizon 2020, Europe was actually pulling ahead of the US in terms of research output. Which would indicate that the brain drain to the US was not as great as it may have been previously.

I think i'm done for the night with this. Wasted too much time looking at something that doesn't effect me too much. I mean it does but nowhere near as much as it effects the EU or the UK (or even scotland).

 Ustrello wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:
So with a leave it is pretty certain that scotland will leave the UK correct?

Not certain no, but more likely than it was yesterday.

I mean wasn't stay razor thin last time? So you think that a leave EU vote would give the independent party a huge boost

55/45 in favour of the union last time, polling before the EUref had it in a statistical tie near enough 50/50 as an average. A lot of folk who voted No last time said they would reconsider and probably vote Yes a second time round in the event of Brexit, but folk say a lot of things and my gut feeling is that most of the pundits/newspaper types peddling that line were hoping to use it to drive opinion down south in England, to persuade unionists there to vote Remain, and when it comes down to it most will prevaricate and then vote No again.

Whether the result changes a second time, assuming there is one, depends entirely on whether the Yes campaign can repeat their performance from before - turning an average 20% support into actual 45%. They'd need to do almost as well again to get a definitive Yes vote. That, I expect, will depend on what happens over the next couple of years during the exit negotiations - if the EU want a stick to beat the UK with, we could find the murmured opposition from EU officials of the last indyref becomes definitive support which in combination with the Brexit vote puts the EU membership issue from last time to bed, and if the pound takes a sustained hit then the whole "fnar fnar, no sterling for you, jockos!" line rather loses its impact OTOH, if the EU decide they just want shot of the lot of us ASAP, the pound recovers somewhat, and the Tories manage to tear themselves apart so thoroughly even Labour appear to have a whisper of a chance of election, then I expect we'd get much the same result as before.

It's by no means a foregone conclusion.

EDIT: And yes, I didn;t go to bed, sue me I'm too hyped/annoyed now

Time for bed for me. I look forward to the reams of articles and political speculation/strife when I wake up,

Good riddance, finally England can be USA's 51 state? GW stuff will even more expensive, back to pounds, shillings and pence, yards, feet etcetera
Battle for Brittain part 2!

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

I realise that (at the moment at least) that housing and pensions had nothing to do with the EU (though I believe the EU was looking into introducing a bill which would cap the cost of renting). My point was that this is yet another example of older people making a decision that will affect younger people a lot more than them, like the changes to state pensions and them buying up all the houses to let them out and further fund their retirement.

Also, with the introduction of frameworks such as Horizon 2020, Europe was actually pulling ahead of the US in terms of research output. Which would indicate that the brain drain to the US was not as great as it may have been previously.

Even if the EU was looking at introducing a bill to cap the cost of renting a property, you still wouldn't be able to rent anywhere because all the rentals would be sold off. The cap wouldn't affect the cost of property.

Getting late here, going to sleep.

Cheers.

Andrew

And the Dutch is wanting to get in this action...\BNO NewsVerified account

‏@BNONews
BREAKING: Dutch Party for Freedom leader Geert Wilders calls for Dutch EU referendum after Brexit

Oh dear, Northern Ireland have also voted Remain.

Looks like England and Wales might be off on their own in a couple of years. EDIT: Yup, here comes Sinn Fein with the regulation Size 6 fecal stirrer.

Jehan-reznor wrote:Good riddance, finally England can be USA's 51 state? GW stuff will even more expensive, back to pounds, shillings and pence, yards, feet etcetera
Battle for Brittain part 2!

Yeah, this is a major factor in me selling all my stuff. Bit weird, but I'm not going to be able to support such a hobby what with a falling pound and uncertainty.

whembly wrote:And the Dutch is wanting to get in this action...\BNO NewsVerified account

‏@BNONews
BREAKING: Dutch Party for Freedom leader Geert Wilders calls for Dutch EU referendum after Brexit

Wouldn't surprise me to see a domino effect of referendums.

This is a turning point for Britain. We've lost our way the last 40 odd years. The 70s in particular really gakked things up. We're headed in the right direction now.

Maybe History will remember this day as the beginning of the Evil Union's destruction, and the freeing of the peoples.
And your grandsons will be proud of theirs grandparents, who rose and stand up against the EU's administration and technocracy !

So it''s official. We're out. Remain can't possibly pull it back as of now. The pound is at it's lowest in a long time though, and we have no idea if we'll take the Norway option. Lot's of uncertainty.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 godardc wrote:
Maybe History will remember this day as the beginning of the Evil Union's destruction, and the freeing of the peoples.
And your grandsons will be proud of theirs grandparents, who rose and stand up against the EU's administration and technocracy !

Isn't the closest French analogue of UKIP gaining momentum in the polls? And aren't they saying they'll force an EU ref?

Just found out forgeworld became cheaper, this is exciting.

They are high for some years now, and yes, they want to organize a referendum, too.
The fact is, the left is in complete disarray because, I don't really know why, it's just people don't like the president and the PM is like a little dictator, prohibiting things, and forcing laws no one wants.

The right has more candidates than I can count^^

And effectively, the FN is high and has only 1 candidate.

They did nearly 50% last time, alone. All the others political parties had to ally to beat them, and some people are upset about their party allying with an opponent.

And, obviously, we have the same problems UK has: identity / immigration.

If the Brexit has no negative impact or just in the short term, the FN will earn some credibility.
People are afread by the economics fallout if we leave the EU, here.

But UK could avoid such a fate to France, despite itself: if the economics fallout of the Brexit are terribad, no one will do it in France !

Honestly, the result has left me... hollow. I guess I didn't realise just how little off the fence I was. If there was ever a human embodiment of how close this vote was in the early-mid stages, it'd be me.

I guess it's harder knowing how many people will hate me for my decision. I'm more sure that we should leave, but that 'more sure' is about half a percent. I'm not lying when I say that was one of the hardest decisions I've ever had to make.

Do I wish it were different? Yes. I wish Cameron hadn't fractured the entire country.
Do I regret my vote? ...Honestly, I'd probably have regretted it whichever way I voted.

Today was not the day to come off my anti-depressants.

Yay...I guess?

What a cluster feth this entire campaign has been...

That's it, the day is done.

We leave.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Yay...I guess?

What a cluster feth this entire campaign has been...

I hope we can at least all unite one last time to publicly lynch Cameron.

Time to go to the bed
Have a good day, despite all your doubts, you independant Brits !

So we've chosen division over unity, and accepted a smaller place in the world.

We've accepted a short term-ravaging of our economy in return for an uncertain future.

I've never felt so ashamed of this country.

I guess we can all now look forward of weeks and months of the establishment huffing and puffing and telling us what naughty racist little gaks we are for not voting the right way.

The EU threatening to punish us.

The vocal minority of sore losers on the Remain side protesting and rioting and refusing to respect the result.

And of course, the inevitable second referendum when the EU bribes us with a few meaningless trinkets and demands we vote again, the right way.

Yay! You did it guys. Sovereignty! Freedom! Democracy!

 Avatar 720 wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Yay...I guess?

What a cluster feth this entire campaign has been...

I hope we can at least all unite one last time to publicly lynch Cameron.

Feed him to pigs I say.

I think, and this may be controversial, that we in England made the correct decision. The Pound may have dipped, but our economy is stable, and we no longer have to bail out sinking ships like Greece.

And, most importantly, we have full control of our borders. The immigration isn't really an issue, the deportation is.

I'm in a stupor.

Dropbear Victim wrote:
Yay! You did it guys. Sovereignty! Freedom! Democracy!

 Avatar 720 wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Yay...I guess?

What a cluster feth this entire campaign has been...

I hope we can at least all unite one last time to publicly lynch Cameron.

Feed him to pigs I say.

Or have the pigs face feth him.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

Dropbear Victim wrote:
Yay! You did it guys. Sovereignty! Freedom! Democracy!

 Avatar 720 wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Yay...I guess?

What a cluster feth this entire campaign has been...

I hope we can at least all unite one last time to publicly lynch Cameron.

Feed him to pigs I say.

Or have the pigs face feth him.

Word is that Boris is taking over.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

Dropbear Victim wrote:
Yay! You did it guys. Sovereignty! Freedom! Democracy!

 Avatar 720 wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Yay...I guess?

What a cluster feth this entire campaign has been...

I hope we can at least all unite one last time to publicly lynch Cameron.

Feed him to pigs I say.

Or have the pigs face feth him.

Word is that Boris is taking over.

As PM or pig fether?

Question folks. I hear that the pound is tanking but how's the Euro doing right now?

Boris for PM!

That's not funny.

Back on topic, the result is surprisingly not at all close. At the time of writing (6:30) it's over a 7% margin in favour of Leave. That's not arguable, Cameron will have to act.

If he actually still wants a chance to save the EU he should dissolve parliament and call a general election to form a new government to carry out the process of reversing the treaties. The reason for this is that current government policy is to Remain, and people deserve the opportunity to vote Boris and Farage into power to handle the exit negotiations.

I saw it a while back being asked for, but this was the voting demographic for age brackets by a YouGov poll.

18-24: 75% Remain
25-49: 56% Remain
50-64: 44% Remain
65+: 39% Remain

 SolarCross wrote:
Boris for PM!

Feth no.

Congrats on the win!!

Welcome back to the free world.

Good morning my UK friends. I have no dog in this hunt, but I'm still very interested in this evening's news (I'm currently vacationing in Hawaii, so it's just after supper-time here in beautiful Kona). Being a decedent of Sir John Hawkins (and hence, also of William the Conqueror), I've always held a keen interest in the affairs of the UK.

I'm not sure why I didn't trust the recent polls, but I'm surprised at the result. I think most are. I'm afraid that this surprise will only make the financial impact worse re: the S&P, etc. Nikkei is down 8%. S&P futures down too. Gold is up.

You know the Chinese curse. I'm afraid we are at the start of a sea-change in world politics. One away from bureaucrats and globalism. I should have seen it when Trump took the Republican nom, but today's vote really hit it home for me.

Are so many people are angry and not happy with the status quo? Is not life pretty good? My normal motto is "don't rock the boat", or "keep on doing what your doing", so this result is freaking me out a little.

Anyways, best of luck to my UK friends, however you may have voted.

Mez

I don't have a smilie big enough to express my joy!

I am very glad I changed £400 into Japanese Yen yesterday.

 Ketara wrote:
I wish America would allow me to borrow a tank for the weekend.

You're not missing much. Finding parking for one is atrocious.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I am very glad I changed £400 into Japanese Yen yesterday.

As are a lot of other businesses who changed halfway through the night. I think Japan stopped trading for a while.

Well don't worry Britain, after the rest of Europe ostracizes you and your currency finishes flat-lining, we'll take you under our fold.

Not as a state though, no no... something else. Some kind of... "colony", one might say. Some kind of entity that's under our umbrella but has no... representation in our governance.

We wish all our friends in the UK the best!

If it doesn't work out, you could always just become a Canadian province. God knows we may consider doing the the same thing depending upon how things go in November.

Canada will finally know what it's like to have a beard! xD

Dark times ahead..

Oh well, Scotland will be back in the EU before too long.

The incoming lurch to the (even further) right will not be pleasant.

 Frozocrone wrote:
I saw it a while back being asked for, but this was the voting demographic for age brackets by a YouGov poll.

18-24: 75% Remain
25-49: 56% Remain
50-64: 44% Remain
65+: 39% Remain

 SolarCross wrote:
Boris for PM!

Feth no.

Who better than Boris? I can only think of Nigel Farage as possible alternative. Honestly I like Boris better though in fairness Nigel deserves a lot of credit for this historic day.



Nigel for PM!

 Silent Puffin? wrote:
Oh well, Scotland will be back in the EU before too long.

The incoming lurch to the (even further) right will not be pleasant.

Yeah, it's going to be Grim for all of you Englanders that aren't in London.

I just hope the job losses whilst we figure out what's going on won't be too severe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BuFFo wrote:
Welcome back to the free world.

What free world?

We've just handed away a lot of our "freedoms".

How does Japan, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, Cananda and many others get by without the EU?

As a dual citizen I'm not sure exactly how much this will affect my ability to travel as freely within the Eurozone with a British passport. Will it be harder to get a working/travel Visa now? Anyone want to explain this for me?

I think it's much better off (eventually) for Britain to leave, but there's a lot of negotiation and difficult diplomacy ahead. Although once the uncertainty passes Britain should be better off.

There are also quite a few downsides to leaving the EU though, also the fact that Scotland and Northern Ireland voted differently might cause more than a bit of discord. UK might be headed on a slippery slope toward K.

Now other EU countries might look to follow suit.

I'm interested to see how it works out, hopefully it's for the best, but more than a few feathers have been ruffled.
It all depends on how negotiations pan out now...

I remember in history studying the Australian republic referendum in 1999. There were calls for Australia to leave the Commonwealth. For the future it'll be interesting to see how long the Commonwealth lasts. I was kind of expecting similar results form Britain in the EU vote. I knew it'd be close but I was surprised to see the result. I was expecting the opposite.

Good luck to everyone in the UK going forward.

It looks like most of the EU would rather punish you than participate with you. Which in my mind rather justifies the leave.

 Flying Pooo wrote:
UK might be headed on a slippery slope toward K.

That has been true for years, its just that we are near to the bottom now.

The recession is going to be great.

How long before people realise what they've done. The only good thing to come out of this is. they wont be able to blame the EU. for all the feth ups anymore.

Well not suprised at the vote result; only seen one remain poster between here and the City in the last four weeks.

I look forward to the Dave Cameron "this was all part of my plan guys, I'll take it from here" show. I hope someone is sharpening metaphorical knives behind his back somewhere because we can't trust him with two years of negotiations.

Annoyed at the absolute lack of decent leaders these days and indeed opposition.

Boris it is then.......wiffwaff anyone?

 Scrabb wrote:
Good luck to everyone in the UK going forward.

It looks like most of the EU would rather punish you than participate with you. Which in my mind rather justifies the leave.

The eurocrats are not "most" of the EU. Regular people all over the EU have serious concerns about it, Brexit could be just the beginning of a string of defections. Then no more EU.

Better together? Not a single Scottish constituency voted to leave.

 Frozocrone wrote:
I saw it a while back being asked for, but this was the voting demographic for age brackets by a YouGov poll.

18-24: 75% Remain
25-49: 56% Remain
50-64: 44% Remain
65+: 39% Remain.

So...

Leave for a while, and then when the Olds die off, re-remain?

 Future War Cultist wrote:
How does Japan, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, Cananda and many others get by without the EU?

Largely by forming close trading relationships with their major trade partners, like what Europe is for the UK.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
How does Japan, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, Cananda and many others get by without the EU?

Largely by forming close trading relationships with their major trade partners, like what Europe is for the UK.

And yet they don't have to be ruled from Brussels.

No, just from Washington

I'm pretty sure all of our British friends should be to busy drinking and singing rule Britannia.

 SolarCross wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
I saw it a while back being asked for, but this was the voting demographic for age brackets by a YouGov poll.

18-24: 75% Remain
25-49: 56% Remain
50-64: 44% Remain
65+: 39% Remain

 SolarCross wrote:
Boris for PM!

Feth no.

Who better than Boris? I can only think of Nigel Farage as possible alternative. Honestly I like Boris better though in fairness Nigel deserves a lot of credit for this historic day.



Nigel for PM!

At this point I think you're trying to troll me xD

There will be calls for resignation, but both Remain and Leave have said that Cameron has to remain in charge for the time being. Can you imagine trying to negotiate a divorce settlement while their is no figurehead for Tory parliament leading the discussions?

 Future War Cultist wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
How does Japan, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, Cananda and many others get by without the EU?

Largely by forming close trading relationships with their major trade partners, like what Europe is for the UK.

And yet they don't have to be ruled from Brussels.

A. Neither is the UK.
B. They don't have free movement of goods and people.
C. Maybe they would be better off if they did. There's a lot less co-operation in science and engineering, for example, compared to the UK and EU..

"When boyhoods fire was in my blood I read of ancient freemen,
For Greece and Rome who bravely stood 300 men and three men.
And I prayed I yet might see our borders rent in twain! And Ireland long divided be one nation once again!"
Am I right in saying that my prayers are much closer to being answered?

Already the consequences have come in for my immediate circle.

My friend (who voted Leave) had an offer put on a house that he really liked and it looks like he might have to withdraw the offer or at least struggle an awful lot with money for the time being. He's going through it with his legal adviser later today.

This could just be a result of the value of the pound dropping. We'll obviously get a clearer picture once the market stablizes and people have an idea of what to expect.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Da krimson barun wrote:
"When boyhoods fire was in my blood I read of ancient freemen,
For Greece and Rome who bravely stood 300 men and three men.
And I prayed I yet might see our borders rent in twain! And Ireland long divided be one nation once again!"
Am I right in saying that my prayers are much closer to being answered?

Maybe? Is Ireland content with the EU? I know a lot of countries are wanting their own referendum.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Already the consequences have come in for my immediate circle.

My friend (who voted Leave) had an offer put on a house that he really liked and it looks like he might have to withdraw the offer or at least struggle an awful lot with money for the time being. He's going through it with his legal adviser later today.

This could just be a result of the value of the pound dropping. We'll obviously get a clearer picture once the market stablizes and people have an idea of what to expect.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Da krimson barun wrote:
"When boyhoods fire was in my blood I read of ancient freemen,
For Greece and Rome who bravely stood 300 men and three men.
And I prayed I yet might see our borders rent in twain! And Ireland long divided be one nation once again!"
Am I right in saying that my prayers are much closer to being answered?

Maybe? Is Ireland content with the EU? I know a lot of countries are wanting their own referendum.

Alot of it is a kneejerk reaction.

Its kind of funny actually.

I am mostly here in the states watching the dollar gain more value and seeing the gold standard steadily rise.

holy crap they actually did it.

Of course it'll take a while to actually leave, but this is incredible. I thought this was going to be like the Scottish vote to leave the UK where there was all that buildup and then nothing really happened.

That split is nasty though, pretty much 50/50.

I have a feeling this topic is going to bring people to blows for months to come. Reactions from British friends range from "we won the world cup" level of excitement to "oh god we're all doomed" despair. I think you guys will pull through, but man youre in for some rough years until everything is out.

You think you guys have it bad though, now that this has happened the EU will be tearing itself apart within a few years at this rate.

So... Congrats I guess? Y'all have turned into the Confederacy of Europe and thrown everything into turmoil, good job.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Already the consequences have come in for my immediate circle.

My friend (who voted Leave) had an offer put on a house that he really liked and it looks like he might have to withdraw the offer or at least struggle an awful lot with money for the time being. He's going through it with his legal adviser later today.

This could just be a result of the value of the pound dropping. We'll obviously get a clearer picture once the market stablizes and people have an idea of what to expect.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Da krimson barun wrote:
"When boyhoods fire was in my blood I read of ancient freemen,
For Greece and Rome who bravely stood 300 men and three men.
And I prayed I yet might see our borders rent in twain! And Ireland long divided be one nation once again!"
Am I right in saying that my prayers are much closer to being answered?

Maybe? Is Ireland content with the EU? I know a lot of countries are wanting their own referendum.

every Scottish constituency voted remain. In the event of Scottish independence, northern Ireland will probably j oin the Republic.

Anyone seen that simpsons treehouse of horror episode where the alien kang, disguised as senator bob dole in the presidential election, tells a reporter: 'it makes no difference which one of us you vote for- either way your planet is doomed- dooomed!'
I feel is relevant.

The best comment I've heard from all this was my brother who asked me if this is what it feels like when fans of football see their team lose XD

@MrMoustaffa quite possible. There is already a petition for referendums to be redone if turnout is less than 75% and the majority is less than 60%.

I'm not happy with the result, but this is democracy and we have to respect the wishes of the majority.

... Cameron is stepping down......

"A lot of countries want their referendum"

-> "A lot of far-right parties in EU countries want a referendum"

Better put the right words on it or we'll never figure out what's exactly happening.

As for the UK, well, good luck. I don't think we're going to hold Calais' migrants back for too long.

Ninja'ed.

Who will take over from big Dave then?

 reds8n wrote:
... Cameron is stepping down......

That is going to be a disaster. I don't want a power struggle in a government that is trying to get a divorce settlement from the EU.

While I am a Remainer and very disappointed at the result, my mental state has undergone a sea change in the past five minutes. I had finished writing a long screed about what has gone wrong, and why, and so on.

But suddenly I felt, feth it! What's done is done. There's no point crying about it.

What's important now is to make absolutely the best job we can of leaving and being out. I'm not sure that means, hopefully not palling up with fascists like Le Pen and Geert Wilders though.

One bright spot is that Farage is going to have to look for a new job, and UKIP' political raison d'etre has been eliminated.

Things won't be as good as the Brexiteers have promised, but they won't be as bad as the Remain campaign warned.

If things really do turn out to go badly, though, I reserve the right to come back in five years to say "I told you so!"

 Frozocrone wrote:

 reds8n wrote:
... Cameron is stepping down......

That is going to be a disaster. I don't want a power struggle in a government that is trying to get a divorce settlement from the EU.

I think it should be interesting, if nothing else.

Cameron has announed he is going to step down by October.

Today marks the day where I saw Gav Thorpe, in response to Brexit, quote Joseph Goebbels of all people, on his Facebook page.

Of all the flavours he had to choose Nazi... I mean salty.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
......If things really do turn out to go badly, though, I reserve the right to come back in five years to say "I told you so!"

Only if we can point and laugh if everything is alright and WW3 hasn't happened.

Disappointing that Cameron is only showing decent leadership in this whole thing as he steps down.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
While I am a Remainer and very disappointed at the result, my mental state has undergone a sea change in the past five minutes. I had finished writing a long screed about what has gone wrong, and why, and so on.

But suddenly I felt, feth it! What's done is done. There's no point crying about it

I'm the same. We've fethed up royally, but it's done now so we need to move on and improve things. At least for the Scots we might be able to reverse it.

We're in for a few years of uncertainty anyway.

So, how well exactly is the UK going to fare, assuming Scotland (and maybe North Ireland) gets its independence ?

I'm not really knowledgeable on that topic.

I can see you guys get closer to the US and Canada, economically at least.

 notprop wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
......If things really do turn out to go badly, though, I reserve the right to come back in five years to say "I told you so!"

Only if we can point and laugh if everything is alright and WW3 hasn't happened.

Disappointing that Cameron is only showing decent leadership in this whole thing as he steps down.

WW3's got nothing to do with it IMO.

You can point and laugh if the UK has a vibrant economy and we are all better off and I will be laughing along with you. I could do with a decent job and a pay rise.

Cameron has always been useless but look at the rest of them. They are all as bad as each other in different ways.

 LethalShade wrote:
So, how well exactly is the UK going to fare, assuming Scotland (and maybe North Ireland) gets its independence ?

I'm not really knowledgeable on that topic.

I can see you guys get closer to the US and Canada, economically at least.

Its GDP will raise.

But it will lose alot of the resources in scotland and Northern Ireland's population. So not well.

UK breaking up is essentially creating a weaker state militarily, and nationally.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

One bright spot is that Farage is going to have to look for a new job, and UKIP' political raison d'etre has been eliminated.

Look for him in the tory party once the divorce is done and signed.

In any case, alea jacta est and all that. Interesting times from now on.

 LethalShade wrote:
So, how well exactly is the UK going to fare, assuming Scotland (and maybe North Ireland) gets its independence ?

I'm not really knowledgeable on that topic.

I can see you guys get closer to the US and Canada, economically at least.

I don't think losing Scotland and Northern Ireland would do much to the England/Wales rump of the UK, which is much more populous and wealthy.

We would have to figure out what to do with the nuclear deterrent.

There would be a problem if the CIty of London decided to relocate to Edinburgh to remain within the EU.

On the whole, though, We would be likely to end up with a settlement like that that already exists between the UK and Eire. Friendly with pretty free and easy movement and so on. Possibly even shared defence committments.