Kanluwen wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
We haven't had bikes for characters since 3rd.

I was at least hoping for Succubi to get Hellion or Bike options, if only because they fall under that purview.

Yea it would have been sweet I agree but we knew there were no new kits in this release so it was obviously not happening this go around.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
We haven't had bikes for characters since 3rd.

I was at least hoping for Succubi to get Hellion or Bike options, if only because they fall under that purview.

Yea it would have been sweet I agree but we knew there were no new kits in this release so it was obviously not happening this go around.

Honestly, it's just weird that since GK and Guard we haven't seen any conversion related ones.

Which one did guard get? I play guard and I can't even think of that.

It is strange though, the Grey Knight NDK GM with conversion corner article really was a silly move on GW's part. Everyone was used to the new standard and then they go and make an exception with one of the very first books to drop.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Which one did guard get? I play guard and I can't even think of that.

Ogryn Bodyguards! It was a way to make it so that you didn't feel shafted if you built Nork Deddog out of the plastic kit(since Ogryn were 3 models minimum in unit size and box size but anyone buying them to make Nork will end up with an understrength unit).

It is strange though, the Grey Knight NDK GM with conversion corner article really was a silly move on GW's part. Everyone was used to the new standard and then they go and make an exception with one of the very first books to drop.

It almost makes me wonder if maybe it's because they have kits ready to go further down the line for everybody else.

Well... Their faction focus kinda explained that the Archons have trust issues and need their own personal transports...

So go big in a Raider!

 Crimson wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Well just use a Transport slot that isn't being used? Not every single unit is gonna be in a Transport like Mandrakes for example. That's when you load up those HQ people and their retinue in a Venom or Raider, right?

AFAIK, a minimum unit size of all units is five, so you can't put HQ with any unit in a Venom, unless you burn a detachment and a command point for an understrength unit. You can fit them in a Raider, but then then the unit that goes with them loses the extra weapons unlocked by being ten elf strong (many Dark Eldar units work like that.)

Weren't Venoms 6 spots?

Either way, you can do a Raider then.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Weren't Venoms 6 spots?

Nope.

Either way, you can do a Raider then.

Yeah, sure. It is just a bit awkward that the army is designed so that the minimum unit size is 5 and character can't fit with that in the small transport, and the optimal unit size is ten and the character can't fit with that in the large transport. Not a huge deal, but combined with lack of bike or jump pack options for characters that many other armies have, it is a tad annoying.

The bigger issue for me is that since auras can't go through transports (in or out), our HQs are basically just a tax for battle-boat lists; while in footdar lists their auras at least work but you're also now risking your T3 HQ on the front-lines. Less of an issue with succubi since they want to be in the muck, but Archons really don't have the tools to survive outside of a skimmer.

I wouldn't go so far as to say ita game breaking for us, but anyone who thinks our HQs have any utility is deluding themselves.

How are you risking your HQ on the front lines when you have 6ppm Kabalite warriors to tank all the firepower?

 Galas wrote:
How are you risking your HQ on the front lines when you have 6ppm Kabalite warriors to tank all the firepower?

Hilarious

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I wouldn't go so far as to say ita game breaking for us, but anyone who thinks our HQs have any utility is deluding themselves.

Black Heart Kabal Archon + 3 Ravagers. Archon takes the relic to give re-roll wound rolls of 1 aura to nearby Ravagers. Archon also innately has a re-roll hit rolls of 1 aura. If the Archon is the Warlord, refunds all Command Points spent by both players on 6s. Yeah, so much for no utility
Expect to see that type of Spearhead detachment in a lot of Aeldari armies, mixed or pure.

How many of those auras work while he's embarked in a transport? How many of them effect units that are embarked within transports? At bare minimum you should read posts before replying to them.

Archon+ravagers castled up sounds plausible- at least he's far back enough to make sniping him out or assaulting challenging.

 Crimson wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Weren't Venoms 6 spots?

Nope.

Either way, you can do a Raider then.

Yeah, sure. It is just a bit awkward that the army is designed so that the minimum unit size is 5 and character can't fit with that in the small transport, and the optimal unit size is ten and the character can't fit with that in the large transport. Not a huge deal, but combined with lack of bike or jump pack options for characters that many other armies have, it is a tad annoying.

Dark Eldar units are bought in packs? Like. Can you have a squad of 9 kabalite warriors or only 5 or 10?

 Galas wrote:

Dark Eldar units are bought in packs? Like. Can you have a squad of 9 kabalite warriors or only 5 or 10?

You can have nine. But then they get only one special weapon and no heavy weapon, whereas a squad of ten can have two special weapons and a heavy weapon. That's pretty drastic difference in the firepower.

 Crimson wrote:

 Galas wrote:

Dark Eldar units are bought in packs? Like. Can you have a squad of 9 kabalite warriors or only 5 or 10?

You can have nine. But then they get only one special weapon and no heavy weapon, whereas a squad of ten can have two special weapons and a heavy weapon. That's pretty drastic difference in the firepower.

Hmmm... similar to Tacticals marines (But with one more special). All this time I thought eldar troops where bought in fixed sized packs. Thanks.

the_scotsman wrote:


which is why almost every transport in the game comes with an extra slot or two for sticking commanders in. You know, not many of them, but

Razorbacks wave serpents falcons repressors immolators trukks battlewagons chimeras land raiders stormwolves valkyries starweavers devilfish blackstars

so like, a couple. Give or take 85%.

Well, Chaos have access to none of those and a good chunk of that list never gets used sooo...they'll just have to deal with it like Chaos does?

 Galas wrote:

Hmmm... similar ot Tacticals marines (But with one more special).

Yep, except marines have Razorback, which is perfect for five marines and a character. So I just wanted the Venom's capacity to be bumbed to six, so the DE could do that as well. Again, not a huge deal, but still. Though it is kinda lame how none the characters of this supposedly fast hit and run army have no mobility options...

 Crimson wrote:

 Galas wrote:

Hmmm... similar ot Tacticals marines (But with one more special).

Yep, except maeines have Razorback, which is perfect for five marines and a character. So I just wanted the Venom's capacity to be bumbed to six, so the DE could do that as well. Again, not a huge deal, but still. Though it is kinda lame how none the characters of this supposedly fast hit and run army have no mobility options...

They have them, you just want them to have them in the way that allows you to have your cake and eat it.

You can take your ten man squads with upgrades, and then spend a CP and take a squad on the side with 4 dudes in it if you must. Or take your nine and make do with one special weapon. Seems as if the thing was designed with the intention of making you have to choose.

 Crimson wrote:

 Galas wrote:

Hmmm... similar ot Tacticals marines (But with one more special).

Yep, except marines have Razorback, which is perfect for five marines and a character. So I just wanted the Venom's capacity to be bumbed to six, so the DE could do that as well. Again, not a huge deal, but still. Though it is kinda lame how none the characters of this supposedly fast hit and run army have no mobility options...

Nobody is using the Razorbacks for that purpose though.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Nobody is using the Razorbacks for that purpose though.

Sure. But that is because marine characters can actually access jump packs, bikes and teleporting terminator armours in case they actually want to move. Marine characters can be way more mobile than the characters of supposed speed army.

To be honest until know I thought Razorbacks had only 5 places. I have been playing 9 months as a 5-man transport, and putting my librarian in a rhino with 5 company veterans in the Razorback, when my intention was for the librarian to buff the company veterans

I don't know why I just assumed it was a 5-man transport.

Forgive me if I missed it; Has there been any word about the webway portal?

 BlaxicanX wrote:
How many of those auras work while he's embarked in a transport? How many of them effect units that are embarked within transports? At bare minimum you should read posts before replying to them.

Archon+ravagers castled up sounds plausible- at least he's far back enough to make sniping him out or assaulting challenging.

At bare minimum you should understand that I only quoted your hyperbolic claim that Dark Eldar HQs have no utility, which is patently false, something which I disproved in kind.

Notice how I didn't disagree with the rest of your post?

Does it matter? Unlike previous editions, GW gave 8th the option to use understrengths units, if you really want to use quirky combinations of units and/or characters in transports.

Sunny Side Up wrote:Does it matter? Unlike previous editions, GW gave 8th the option to use understrengths units, if you really want to use quirky combinations of units and/or characters in transports.

Crimson wrote:

 Galas wrote:

Dark Eldar units are bought in packs? Like. Can you have a squad of 9 kabalite warriors or only 5 or 10?

You can have nine. But then they get only one special weapon and no heavy weapon, whereas a squad of ten can have two special weapons and a heavy weapon. That's pretty drastic difference in the firepower.

I feel like we're going in circles

if you're gonna run Archons up the board, they match best with The Court. That's 4 models. Fits great in a Venom
Wych special weapons are ok, but nothing amazing. Nine Wyches, one shardnet and a Succubi will fill a raider perfectly.
Haemonculi & grotesques will always work.

The only issue is that the vehicles can be targeted.

Succubi and haemonculi can go on foot. And an haemy plus 4 grots or 9 wracks is perfect on a raider.

Kabalites plus an HQ doesn't make any sense, all our HQs are close combat oriented, kabalites are a shooty unit and while embarked the archon couldn't even give the buff in the shooting phase.

The 9 dudes size can be bad on wyches though, but with a special weapon and an agoniser on a hekatrix they should be decent. Archons are good with the court (even in a venom) or incubi in a raider, and succubus can footslog as they're slower than vehicles but quite fast for being infantries and they can also get a drug for a better movement range. Like the archons they can be embarked in a raider with incubi as well. Haemys on foot also give +1T to the transports.

There's no real need of increasing the transport capacity of our transports. It would be cool and some improvement sure, but we don't really need it.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:


which is why almost every transport in the game comes with an extra slot or two for sticking commanders in. You know, not many of them, but

Razorbacks wave serpents falcons repressors immolators trukks battlewagons chimeras land raiders stormwolves valkyries starweavers devilfish blackstars

so like, a couple. Give or take 85%.

Well, Chaos have access to none of those and a good chunk of that list never gets used sooo...they'll just have to deal with it like Chaos does?

Conveniently, every chaos faction has a handy dandy mobility option for all their HQs.

Terminator armor deep strikes, Wings for daemon princes, bikes, jump packs, mounts...and if all else fails, land raiders have extra transport slots.

but yeah, theyr epretty much in the same situation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 davou wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Galas wrote:

Hmmm... similar ot Tacticals marines (But with one more special).

Yep, except maeines have Razorback, which is perfect for five marines and a character. So I just wanted the Venom's capacity to be bumbed to six, so the DE could do that as well. Again, not a huge deal, but still. Though it is kinda lame how none the characters of this supposedly fast hit and run army have no mobility options...

They have them, you just want them to have them in the way that allows you to have your cake and eat it.

You can take your ten man squads with upgrades, and then spend a CP and take a squad on the side with 4 dudes in it if you must. Or take your nine and make do with one special weapon. Seems as if the thing was designed with the intention of making you have to choose.

have our cake and eat it too

....like every other faction in the game gets to. sorry, exception - admech has no transports at all.

Sorry admech.

its fine though, admech is a totally un-clunky, fully functional faction despite that lack and it has never held them back, right?

the_scotsman wrote:


Conveniently, every chaos faction has a handy dandy mobility option for all their HQs.

Terminator armor deep strikes, Wings for daemon princes, bikes, jump packs, mounts...and if all else fails, land raiders have extra transport slots.

but yeah, theyr epretty much in the same situation.

{{snip}}

have our cake and eat it too

....like every other faction in the game gets to. sorry, exception - admech has no transports at all.

Sorry admech.

its fine though, admech is a totally un-clunky, fully functional faction despite that lack and it has never held them back, right?

-Tantalus (with anything you want in it)
-Raider with 9 dudes in it
-Raider with 5 dudes in it and assorted cahracters
-Venom with 4 dudes in it
-Venom with just the HQ in it
-Venom with the hq and other characters in it
-Webway deploy on foot
-Webway deploy Tantalus (with anything you want in it)
-Webway deploy Raider with 9 dudes in it
-Webway deploy Raider with 5 dudes in it and assorted cahracters
-Webway deploy Venom with 4 dudes in it
-Webway deploy Venom with just the HQ in it
-Webway deploy Venom with the hq and other characters in it


If you wanted to be able to terminator deep strike, then maybe you should have considered playing a space marine army?


Eddited : thanks Cinderspirit

I get the frustration as a fellow dark eldar player, but the comparisons are really lame. Most of the chaos stuff listed doesn't really support the argument either.

I mean we are comparing demon princes with wings now? Land raider? Those piles of garbage no one uses and even if they did were a direct comparison to the tantalus. Terminators? And then to state bikes and mounts, which were dropped and are hot trash that cannot gain legion traits... The only chaos faction to get a good mobility option outside jump packs is the disc for T-sons and I am not even going to dare compare that train wreck of a book (codex Tzaangor) to the sweet sauce we just received.

Edit: Again, it would be nice to get bikes/boards for succubi, but with no new models it was never happening. I think GW gets the fact they need to flesh out some stuff in their back log, but they have way too much on their plate ATM. Maybe next time.

If you want to get your HQs save and sound to the frontline stick them all together in a Raider/Venom, put it into reserve with the new stratagem and deploy them there?

the_scotsman wrote:

....like every other faction in the game gets to. sorry, exception - admech has no transports at all.

Sorry admech.

Why would admech need transports? They are almost robots after all. If they wanted transports they would have had wheels then. Yeah yeah, Necrons are robots as well but they wanted to become flesh so that is why they have transports.

Davor wrote:
Yeah yeah, Necrons are robots as well but they wanted to become flesh so that is why they have transports.

*A* transport, and it's only useful for one unit (warriors), and only for a minimum-sized force of them, also...

hvg3akaek wrote:

Davor wrote:
Yeah yeah, Necrons are robots as well but they wanted to become flesh so that is why they have transports.

*A* transport, and it's only useful for one unit (warriors), and only for a minimum-sized force of them, also...

There’s also the Nightscythe and Monolith

 Bi'ios wrote:

hvg3akaek wrote:

Davor wrote:
Yeah yeah, Necrons are robots as well but they wanted to become flesh so that is why they have transports.

*A* transport, and it's only useful for one unit (warriors), and only for a minimum-sized force of them, also...

There’s also the Nightscythe and Monolith

Neither the Night Scythe or Monolith have the TRANSPORT keyword.

Admech has the kataphrons & rust/sicarian for "transport" everything else just walks tirelessly to the battle from wherever the omnissiah calculates to be the best & most efficient use of resources. but yes they could use a A"razorback" equiv. something troopish should soak up some fire. or a moveable shield of some sort.

I dunno why everyone is freaking out about transports for whichever factions. I'm seeing less and less Rhinos, Razorbacks, and Land Raiders on the table for Space Marines and Chaos. I think the only transports that I see regularly are for Eldar and Dark Eldar.

With everything getting its own move characteristic, and with so many wonky rules around transports, including their points increase (remember when Rhinos were only 35 points?), transports aren't all that necessary any more, except maybe as line of sight blockers. Besides, everyone's saying that horde armies are the best, so wouldn't you want to just take large blob squads of whatever your base troop is and walk them up anyway? Why would you waste points on a transport, especially one as expensive as a razorback equivalent when you can have more bodies?

I try to run at least 1, most often 2. they're good for the points. lascannon & asscannon are very useful even if you don't put anybody in it.

A full footslogging wych cult army with the +1 strength only loose one to morale trait would be kind of cool

the_scotsman wrote:

Terminator armor deep strikes, Wings for daemon princes, bikes, jump packs, mounts...and if all else fails, land raiders have extra transport slots.

but yeah, theyr epretty much in the same situation.

Land raiders have transport capacity 10. Crusader has more but that's not for chaos. Lascannon one for chaos and loyalist has 10.

 Mantle wrote:
A full footslogging wych cult army with the +1 strength only loose one to morale trait would be kind of cool

It'd probably be about as meta-dominant as those Storm Guardian Lyanden eldar armies we're currently seeing sweep tournaments left and right. Similar troops with similar defenses and immunity to morale.

To be clear here - the transport thing is a minor annoyance with what is otherwise a freakin' amazing codex. I've said before that I won't make many demands with my dark eldar - I'm comfortable not being the best at shooting, the strongest, the best and survivability, the best at melee...this is fine. Other factions can have those glories. The only thing I will and have demanded for my Dark Eldar is to be the fastest. They are the fast army. And that means that my HQs (barring Haemonculi) are almost always going to be rolling up the field in transports. It is consistently a source of irritation to me then, when my Dark Eldar alone among the factions that I collect has to play a little mini-game of sudoku to get their HQs to fit inside said transports with their units.

Do I waste extra points to give each and every one a personal venom? Do I create an HQ party bus filled with 200 points of characters with a huge "Shoot me" sign painted on the side? Do I give up 2 valuable special/heavy weapons in one of my squads just to give my HQ a seat? Do I spend an extra 1-2CP to bring them in via deep strike?

Why do I have to play this little mini-game with my Dark Eldar when my Guard, my Thousand Sons, heck my Harlequins who have a completely identical in statline transport just have little conveniences baked into their rules to avoid it? It's not any kind of game-breaking or rage inducing, it's just consistently awkward and annoying, especially when Dark Eldar are now being pushed to take more mandatory fixed HQs than anyone else. Imagine the level of complaints you'd get if Space Marines only had access to Rhinos and Drop pods with their 10 transport capacity, and to play Space Marines you had to bring a footslogging captain, librarian, and chaplain before you were allowed to build the rest of your list. You don't even have to imagine it - look at the complaints surrounding the Repulsor. Transport awkwardness is annoying for anyone who has to deal with it.

And DE units can't share transports easily. You can't put a melee oriented Archon in a raider with wyches. Or a succubus with wracks or grotesques.

fresus wrote:
And DE units can't share transports easily. You can't put a melee oriented Archon in a raider with wyches. Or a succubus with wracks or grotesques.

Unless we've confirmed that its changed in the codex, they can (I dont think it's been mentioned/leaked yet).

Current rules allow the transport to carry Drukhari models, though the vehicle itself does gain <Kabal> <WC> etc. That does allow cross-subfaction transporting.

the_scotsman wrote:


Conveniently, every chaos faction has a handy dandy mobility option for all their HQs.

Terminator armor deep strikes, Wings for daemon princes, bikes, jump packs, mounts...and if all else fails, land raiders have extra transport slots.

but yeah, theyr epretty much in the same situation.

Chaos has no size 12 LR in codex. But it's good to know that it's the same when you pay more for a terminator character, wings, etc.

Chaos also doesn't have a stratagem that lets you deepstike a transport WITH a unit inside of it as well as a plethora of other things that are uniquely DE.

So, yes, I will play the violin for DE missing out on special weapon.

Hoping we get an update on the next codex after dark eldar relatively soon.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Hoping we get an update on the next codex after dark eldar relatively soon.

Knights, Harlequins and Deathwatch.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/22/breaking-news-major-revealsgw-homepage-post-1/

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Hoping we get an update on the next codex after dark eldar relatively soon.

Knights, Harlequins and Deathwatch.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/22/breaking-news-major-revealsgw-homepage-post-1/

Allow me to write that better, then. I know what's coming next, I just hope we get an update on which one is first, when, etc.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Hoping we get an update on the next codex after dark eldar relatively soon.

Knights, Harlequins and Deathwatch.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/22/breaking-news-major-revealsgw-homepage-post-1/

Allow me to write that better, then. I know what's coming next, I just hope we get an update on which one is first, when, etc.

Gotcha. I would assume Knights first, but not for any particular reason.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Hoping we get an update on the next codex after dark eldar relatively soon.

Knights, Harlequins and Deathwatch.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/22/breaking-news-major-revealsgw-homepage-post-1/

Allow me to write that better, then. I know what's coming next, I just hope we get an update on which one is first, when, etc.

Gotcha. I would assume Knights first, but not for any particular reason.

I would like to agree, for entirely seflish reasons.

With Deepkin coming next for Age of Sigmar, don't expect to find out which is next for at least two or three weeks (and even then I wouldn't expect Knights until at least May so they can feature in White Dwarf).

I believe most of the current rumors have the clowns coming next, followed by knights with the new teased gigundus-knight and the full mini-knight kit with more options.

Clowns being a no-model release like Dark Eldar.

the_scotsman wrote:
Do I create an HQ party bus filled with 200 points of characters with a huge "Shoot me" sign painted on the side?

This is actually a great idea. If you literally painted a sign that said "shoot me" on the side of your venom, you'd absolutely psych out a non-zero number of opponents, leaving them to hopelessly second guess their plans of attack. "What am I missing? That's obviously the biggest target, but why call attention to it? It must be a distraction!"

Codex solved.

Benn Roe wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Do I create an HQ party bus filled with 200 points of characters with a huge "Shoot me" sign painted on the side?

This is actually a great idea. If you literally painted a sign that said "shoot me" on the side of your venom, you'd absolutely psych out a non-zero number of opponents, leaving them to hopelessly second guess their plans of attack. "What am I missing? That's obviously the biggest target, but why call attention to it? It must be a distraction!"

Codex solved.

This tactic is also suitably fluffy and has DE written all over it! Perfect.

Benn Roe wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Do I create an HQ party bus filled with 200 points of characters with a huge "Shoot me" sign painted on the side?

This is actually a great idea. If you literally painted a sign that said "shoot me" on the side of your venom, you'd absolutely psych out a non-zero number of opponents, leaving them to hopelessly second guess their plans of attack. "What am I missing? That's obviously the biggest target, but why call attention to it? It must be a distraction!"

Codex solved.

And then you have people like me who must press the big red button.

Oh sure. It's not going to tilt everyone, but it's not likely to make the situation worse, either.

From a Spanish version of the Codex, Mandrakes now to 1d3 MW in 6+ to wound. But maybe this is an error, I don't know, the spanish versions of the codex are prone to that.

 Galas wrote:

Spoiler:

From a Spanish version of the Codex, Mandrakes now to 1d3 MW in 6+ to wound. But maybe this is an error, I don't know, the spanish versions of the codex are prone to that.

It's got to be an error. No mention of it in any of the English Codex reviews.

They got 3 attacks now? And with -1 AP and a point reduction. WOW they got massivly improved. Must take at least one in every list.

The Codex reviews are not complete and at least one had mistakes.

I think Knights will be next because we've gotten a leak or two from that DeX before we got leaks from the other two. They showed us the new knight and we just got armigers.

Mandrakes at 16 points and with d3 MW weapons would be ridiculous. Their shooting alone makes them almost as good as Guardians against GEQs and then far better against everything else, with built-in deep strike. Almost nothing does better than them vs T7 3+/4++. You'd see suicide units of them in every Eldar list.

Anon052 wrote:
They got 3 attacks now? And with -1 AP and a point reduction. WOW they got massivly improved. Must take at least one in every list.

They have the same number of attacks as before. They used to have a base of 2 and their glimmer steel blade used to give +1 attack.

 Davespil wrote:
I think Knights will be next because we've gotten a leak or two from that DeX before we got leaks from the other two. They showed us the new knight and we just got armigers.

That's my guess for the next codex, too. I'm still expecting at least one more sprue in the Armiger kit, so hopefully we'll see that soon.

 EnTyme wrote:

 Davespil wrote:
I think Knights will be next because we've gotten a leak or two from that DeX before we got leaks from the other two. They showed us the new knight and we just got armigers.

That's my guess for the next codex, too. I'm still expecting at least one more sprue in the Armiger kit, so hopefully we'll see that soon.

At this point I don't think anybody isn't expecting a sprue in the Armiger kit since the instructions show at least one head option that isn't on the frame.

What remains to be seen is whether it's 2 to a box with you being able to build two of each type or one of each type.

Dionysodorus wrote:
Mandrakes at 16 points and with d3 MW weapons would be ridiculous. Their shooting alone makes them almost as good as Guardians against GEQs and then far better against everything else, with built-in deep strike. Almost nothing does better than them vs T7 3+/4++. You'd see suicide units of them in every Eldar list.

English codex in hand. Baleblast does only a single mortal wound, not d3.

I'm expecting Harlequins next because It'll be a no model release. They will milk knights across two weeks with a model release and then the codex release. I don't see them fitting knights in alongside Idoneth Deepkin, whereas they could for Harlequins.

Or they could do harlequins and knights back to back like crons and de were. Have the Armiger's release the same week as the harlequin book (and getting started set) then the other week knight book and castellan.

I would love more harlequins models please.

Even if nothing else a new unit type to build out of the current squad. I have a few left to build, give me some mimes!!!

(Also, none of their weapons should be "heavy" don't force me to hold back with a fast moving army when my longest range is 24")

Anon052 wrote:
They got 3 attacks now? And with -1 AP and a point reduction. WOW they got massivly improved. Must take at least one in every list.

The Codex reviews are not complete and at least one had mistakes.

They've always had 3 attacks, 2 base plus 1 additional with their blades.

 rollawaythestone wrote:
I'm expecting Harlequins next because It'll be a no model release. They will milk knights across two weeks with a model release and then the codex release. I don't see them fitting knights in alongside Idoneth Deepkin, whereas they could for Harlequins.

THis is possible, too. They might want to wait a bit longer to release the Armiger kit until a lot of people already bought the Forgebane box.

I am really hoping they make that sprue available as an upgrade. I will build one as a Armiger Warglaive, but I am hoping for another option.

I expect Harlequins and Deathwatch will be back to back, with at most for Deathwatch a Primaris upgrade sprue. They used to have a campaign box with those two squaring off, after all! :p

Whether that is before or after Knights, no clue.

If we pray hard enough, maybe they will rerelease the box set for DW/Harlies.

 Crazyterran wrote:
I expect Harlequins and Deathwatch will be back to back, with at most for Deathwatch a Primaris upgrade sprue. They used to have a campaign box with those two squaring off, after all! :p

Whether that is before or after Knights, no clue.

If we pray hard enough, maybe they will rerelease the box set for DW/Harlies.

Not expecting it but I would love this.

Missed it first time round.

 rollawaythestone wrote:
I'm expecting Harlequins next because It'll be a no model release. They will milk knights across two weeks with a model release and then the codex release. I don't see them fitting knights in alongside Idoneth Deepkin, whereas they could for Harlequins.

If anything Harlequins might just end up being a 'here, we added these units from other armies to your range to compensate, enjoy your Razorwing Jetfighter from the DE range and enjoy your Vyper jetbikes from the Eldar range. Use spares to convert them. HaHAA.'

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 rollawaythestone wrote:
I'm expecting Harlequins next because It'll be a no model release. They will milk knights across two weeks with a model release and then the codex release. I don't see them fitting knights in alongside Idoneth Deepkin, whereas they could for Harlequins.

If anything Harlequins might just end up being a 'here, we added these units from other armies to your range to compensate, enjoy your Razorwing Jetfighter from the DE range and enjoy your Vyper jetbikes from the Eldar range. Use spares to convert them. HaHAA.'

For that they would need to repackage "harlequin vyper jetbike" etc. And convert? HAHAHAHAHA! GW doesn't believe in that.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 rollawaythestone wrote:
I'm expecting Harlequins next because It'll be a no model release. They will milk knights across two weeks with a model release and then the codex release. I don't see them fitting knights in alongside Idoneth Deepkin, whereas they could for Harlequins.

If anything Harlequins might just end up being a 'here, we added these units from other armies to your range to compensate, enjoy your Razorwing Jetfighter from the DE range and enjoy your Vyper jetbikes from the Eldar range. Use spares to convert them. HaHAA.'

Well, I have a converted Harlequin Vyper, and a Hemlock painted in my Masque colors, so I actually wouldn't mind having the opportunity to include them and still benefit from the Masque tactics. But I don't believe it's going to happen.
A conversion model like the GMNDK isn't impossible, although pretty unlikely given how few codex got stuff like that (but maybe having a very restricted unit range increases the chances...), and Harlequins have easy conversions like a troupe master on skyweaver.

A Start Collecting box could be released with the codex, especially if GW needs to fill up a release slot. I could see the SC being Troupe + Starweaver + Skyweavers. Or Troupe + Starweaver + 2 characters.

Hey look at that; Incubi can't get demi-klaives any more.

Looks at Incubi models on GW Website... Is totally not shocked that demi-klavies are not a option since they don't sell a model with them. Reminds players to consult Designer's Commentary and Index Xenos 1.

Well that was obvious from day first codex was released

Then why the succubus can now take razorflails, shardnet & impaler or hydra gauntlets? Plus the two pistols, which could be part of her loadout also in the index. The only official model is a monopose one with agoniser and glaive.

The "no model/option in the kit no rule" doesn't apply for all the profiles.

 Blackie wrote:
Then why the succubus can now take razorflails, shardnet & impaler or hydra gauntlets? Plus the two pistols, which could be part of her loadout also in the index. The only official model is a monopose one with agoniser and glaive.

The "no model/option in the kit no rule" doesn't apply for all the profiles.

Because those bits exist in other kits(I am going with them being in the Wych kit, but possibly the Hellion kit. Not sure). No demi-klaive models exist at all. Same with the Archon being able to take a Blast Pistol, Agonizer, or Power Sword. None of those are in his kit, but you can absolutely put arms from the Kabalite Warriors kit.

Even that's unusual. Generally GW hates kitbashing like plague. Just look at marines where characters have limited options despite marines being THE easiest army to kitbash with tons of kits to mix&match.

DE can considerer themselves to be lucky to have ANY options in their characters.

tneva82 wrote:


DE can considerer themselves to be lucky to have ANY options in their characters.

I was positively surprised by that. I really hopes this is signalling a change in attitude. I understand not including options that do not exist at all, but options that easily can be kitbashed from kits of the same faction should be included.

 Crimson wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


DE can considerer themselves to be lucky to have ANY options in their characters.

I was positively surprised by that. I really hopes this is signalling a change in attitude. I understand not including options that do not exist at all, but options that easily can be kitbashed from kits of the same faction should be included.

C'mon Lasgun Officers and Sergeants! C'mon Skitarii/Princep HQs!
C'MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!


Congrats to Dark Eldar for getting something I'm extremely jealous of.

Well, they already talked in their previews about the Dark Eldar kits being cunningly made to be kit bashed. Was kinda clear to me that the HQs would be able to take weapons out of the standard kits again.

Cinderspirit wrote:
Well, they already talked in their previews about the Dark Eldar kits being cunningly made to be kit bashed. Was kinda clear to me that the HQs would be able to take weapons out of the standard kits again.

The cynical part of me sees that more like GW capitalizing on the creativity of players more than an intentional design choice.

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:

Cinderspirit wrote:
Well, they already talked in their previews about the Dark Eldar kits being cunningly made to be kit bashed. Was kinda clear to me that the HQs would be able to take weapons out of the standard kits again.

The cynical part of me sees that more like GW capitalizing on the creativity of players more than an intentional design choice.

You say that like this wasn’t explicitly part of the design notes when the kits were first released.

Nice to see phantasm grenade launchers are assault weapons, means you can shoot them and any other guns on the model equipped with it, it's not game changing but it's something nice to fill those few little points up with at the end of your list

Ah, I didn't know that. Fair enough!

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Then why the succubus can now take razorflails, shardnet & impaler or hydra gauntlets? Plus the two pistols, which could be part of her loadout also in the index. The only official model is a monopose one with agoniser and glaive.

The "no model/option in the kit no rule" doesn't apply for all the profiles.

Because those bits exist in other kits(I am going with them being in the Wych kit, but possibly the Hellion kit. Not sure). No demi-klaive models exist at all. Same with the Archon being able to take a Blast Pistol, Agonizer, or Power Sword. None of those are in his kit, but you can absolutely put arms from the Kabalite Warriors kit.

The really strange part is that they took away the Blaster option for the Archon whilst giving him an option for a Venom Blade.

 Imateria wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Then why the succubus can now take razorflails, shardnet & impaler or hydra gauntlets? Plus the two pistols, which could be part of her loadout also in the index. The only official model is a monopose one with agoniser and glaive.

The "no model/option in the kit no rule" doesn't apply for all the profiles.

Because those bits exist in other kits(I am going with them being in the Wych kit, but possibly the Hellion kit. Not sure). No demi-klaive models exist at all. Same with the Archon being able to take a Blast Pistol, Agonizer, or Power Sword. None of those are in his kit, but you can absolutely put arms from the Kabalite Warriors kit.

The really strange part is that they took away the Blaster option for the Archon whilst giving him an option for a Venom Blade.

Well, the blaster i can understand going, though sadly. It was the only hq model in the entire game iirc that could take a full special weapon, so stood out. At least before combiweapons got upgraded.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Then why the succubus can now take razorflails, shardnet & impaler or hydra gauntlets? Plus the two pistols, which could be part of her loadout also in the index. The only official model is a monopose one with agoniser and glaive.

The "no model/option in the kit no rule" doesn't apply for all the profiles.

Because those bits exist in other kits(I am going with them being in the Wych kit, but possibly the Hellion kit. Not sure). No demi-klaive models exist at all. Same with the Archon being able to take a Blast Pistol, Agonizer, or Power Sword. None of those are in his kit, but you can absolutely put arms from the Kabalite Warriors kit.

The really strange part is that they took away the Blaster option for the Archon whilst giving him an option for a Venom Blade.

Well, the blaster i can understand going, though sadly. It was the only hq model in the entire game iirc that could take a full special weapon, so stood out. At least before combiweapons got upgraded.

Which means that the Archon is actually getting the shaft compared to other HQs, who have Special Weapons with a Boltgun attached.

Oh well, I really like the Splinter Pistol relics, so I will be modeling mine with one (not with the stupid crossed-arms pose though). One thing I am really happy about is that GW realized how dumb HQs clampacks without head options are. Too late for my Archon, but I will find him a nice head.

tneva82 wrote:
Even that's unusual. Generally GW hates kitbashing like plague. Just look at marines where characters have limited options despite marines being THE easiest army to kitbash with tons of kits to mix&match.

DE can considerer themselves to be lucky to have ANY options in their characters.

Maybe they have limited options *because* they are so easy to kitbash?

I have no problem with the Marine kits - I've kitbashed lots of stuff (Techmarines, CM on Bike, etc.)

Yeah, I'm actually incredibly pleasantly surprised by the number of kitbash options available in the book.

Just another instance of GW's fun "Maybe model, maybe rules???" policy at work. Archon with blast pistol lifted from the kabalite sprue? Sure! Archon with blaster lifted from a different part of the very same kabalite sprue? No way jose!

Multiple astra militarum units from the same kit representing more/less trained versions of the same basic mold? Yeah, we've got a whole passel o' those!

One kabalite unit with the exact same logic behind it? Not allowed!

I'm grateful to be only losing some stuff, when I could have lost all the stuff. It gives me hope that the rules team is doing something to wriggle free from the grasp of the legal team.

Can't you just do Archons with blasters like from the Index?

 Kurgash wrote:
Can't you just do Archons with blasters like from the Index?

It's more the principle that it isn't in the codex.

I can still do Biker HQ for my Marines because of the index but it's pretty annoying when they actually HAVE an official Captain on a bike! Granted it says White Scars but still...

 Galas wrote:
From: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345193-chaos-space-wolves-codex-kroot-rumors-heavy-salt/

New Black Legion will be in a boxed set with new Space Wolves, new Abbadon model and Chaos Chosen, plus a new Wolves character and some other stuff. End of year for the boxed set.

Angron and new Khorne will be coming too, although may be next year now. Angron is gonna be huge

Also here's a big one: Kroot Codex. Hard to believe, but the source on this has never been wrong for me.

Russ is returning - old man Russ, looks a bit like Odin - and he will POSSIBLY have 2 forms like Morathi

There are new rumors regarding an updated Abbadon model

Via The Spanish Inquisitor - B&C forum

A french youtuber, French Wargame Studio, who has a good rate of rumours just confirmed that a box set with a new Abaddon and new Obliterators was planned for release in December.

(For those who speak french https://youtu.be/HzvuabKBs_I?t=2h14m59s )

Translation:
"Four or Five month ago, an american guy "dreamt" of new obliterators. We had the same "dream". It would be for the end of the year, or beginning of next year, we'll have a recast of Abaddon and Obliterators. I saw Santa, he was talking to Abaddon: Abaddon was in a box set with some obliterators, fighting other people looking like humans [...]. (answering a question) No, it's not the Battle Sisters ! I don't know, maybe I spoke too quickly. No, they will be imperial humans in 3+ power armor. "

For the record, FWS "dreamt" of a Gorka-Morka-like game before it was announced by GW.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349831-new-abaddon-and-obliterators/

so... Primaris Space Marines of some stripe or another vs black legion?

Good guess. With a Dark Angels upgrade sprue? Or maybe... Arbites?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Or Wulfen?

TheWolfLord - B&C

In the recently released Ashes of Prospero the Wolves found and freed around 200 of the original 13th Company plus much of their vehicle support from a Labyrinth on Prospero. These were led by Wolf Lord Bulveye who is an iconic character in the lore of the Wolves.
These new/old? Wolves discovered the betrayal by Horus and his manipulation of Russ in the attack on Prospero.

It would be very strange if GW didn't incorporate Bulveye and his Wolves into the Space Wolves Codex with new lore and rules.

A boxed set of the 13th Company versus the Black Legion makes sense as they'd be the obvious target of Bulveye anger at Horus for his betrayal.

- Edited by TheWolfLord, 12 March 2018 - 10:52 PM.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345193-chaos-space-wolves-codex-kroot-rumors-heavy-salt/#entry5030611

BrianDavion wrote:
so... Primaris Space Marines of some stripe or another vs black legion?

Primaris seem the most likely - maybe a new type or upgrades for one of the non snowflake Chapters for once.

The other option is more Sisters of Silence - they are imperial humans in 3+ power armor.... they are due for a Codex given that Custodians got one.

Black Templars would be the last one, right?

They're not going to do White Scars/Sallies/Raven Guard.

 Mr Morden wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
so... Primaris Space Marines of some stripe or another vs black legion?

Primaris seem the most likely - maybe a new type or upgrades for one of the non snowflake Chapters for once.

The other option is more Sisters of Silence - they are imperial humans in 3+ power armor.... they are due for a Codex given that Custodians got one.

actually... here's a thought, GW's notorious for putting plastic kits out in a box for a few months before the minis themselves are released... chapter approved 2018 is giving us Beta SOB rules...

What if it's a Black Legionv s SISTERS OF BATTLE Box.

I think Abaddon with Obliterators would sell like absolute hot cakes - both exceptionally strong/good units with questionable minis (Abaddon's fine, but Obliterators are gak).

Couple that with some new fancy marines and the box would sell instantly. I think it'd be much safer to be more new Primaris though than anything Space Wolf related (and sad to see them steal the name Bulveye from Bulwyf which is the name given to the portrayer of Beowful in Crichton's Eater's of the Dead/13th Warrior).

Normally I'd be almsot positive it woul;dn't be space wolves cause of tooth and claw, but we DID get the Ncron/Admech box followed by kill team. and Come to think of it kill team had GSC in it, so if we use those boxes as a guide, space wolves + something else might be argued as inevitable

BrianDavion wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
so... Primaris Space Marines of some stripe or another vs black legion?

Primaris seem the most likely - maybe a new type or upgrades for one of the non snowflake Chapters for once.

The other option is more Sisters of Silence - they are imperial humans in 3+ power armor.... they are due for a Codex given that Custodians got one.

actually... here's a thought, GW's notorious for putting plastic kits out in a box for a few months before the minis themselves are released... chapter approved 2018 is giving us Beta SOB rules...

What if it's a Black Legionv s SISTERS OF BATTLE Box.

Too early. They started designing models spring. Gw leadtimes means next year earliest. December releases would be long done by now

That and we also know we’re getting that special/example character sculpt for Christmas; usurping that with a whole unit 6-8 months early would be weird (although entirely welcome) unless GW suddenly decided that metal minis in a battlezone box is okay, which is frankly even less likely than a near-miraculous turn-around on getting new sprues ready.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Black Templars would be the last one, right?

They're not going to do White Scars/Sallies/Raven Guard.

Sadly no as they are not Snowflake Chapters - just First Founding.........

Black Templars is possible or even Imperial Fists - both were quite prominent in the Battle for Cadia against the Black Legion.

Maybe its the new Primaris Codex.

Oh man, I really hope this particular rumor is true. I would LOVE to see some new oblits, I love the concept of the unit but the model itself is just so, so hideous. There's nowhere to go but up with modern GW's reimagining of the concept.

Oblits in plastic is a great idea, but even better if you can build them as Mutilators as well (those minis are far, far worse than the metal Oblits).

And then maybe... just maybe... this sad old set can get an upgrade.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Black Templars is possible or even Imperial Fists - both were quite prominent in the Battle for Cadia against the Black Legion.

Actually you're right about the Fists. Plus the same kit will cover Crimson Fists as well, so two birds, one oversized Marine.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Maybe its the new Primaris Codex.

On top of everything else?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Oblits in plastic is a great idea, but even better if you can build them as Mutilators as well (those minis are far, far worse than the metal Oblits).

And then maybe... just maybe... this sad old set can get an upgrade.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Black Templars is possible or even Imperial Fists - both were quite prominent in the Battle for Cadia against the Black Legion.

Actually you're right about the Fists. Plus the same kit will cover Crimson Fists as well, so two birds, one oversized Marine.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Maybe its the new Primaris Codex.

On top of everything else?

Yeah, a Dual Oblit/Mutailator kit would be great. Hopefully with a nice boost to Muties.