casvalremdeikun wrote: So, judging by what I have seen so far, it is pretty disappointing that Crisis Suits are not that great. I still think suit armies will still be viable, but it seems like better options for suits still exist. Oh well. I still plan on getting a Commander and making him into a Coldstar. Or I might just get CharFarsight. I don't want a Tau force, but the stuff I want I want to make decently powerful, so that if I change my mind, I can use them and not feel dumb.
Don’t get too hyped about the Riptide/etc. buffs. You need to remember these units were in the ‘unbelievably useless trash’ tier before. A unit overpriced by 100 points per model getting a 50 point reduction doesn’t all of a sudden make it competitive. They barely climbed a tier and now solidly sit at the ‘trashy’ tier.
casvalremdeikun wrote: So, judging by what I have seen so far, it is pretty disappointing that Crisis Suits are not that great. I still think suit armies will still be viable, but it seems like better options for suits still exist. Oh well. I still plan on getting a Commander and making him into a Coldstar. Or I might just get CharFarsight. I don't want a Tau force, but the stuff I want I want to make decently powerful, so that if I change my mind, I can use them and not feel dumb.
Don’t get too hyped about the Riptide/etc. buffs. You need to remember these units were in the ‘unbelievably useless trash’ tier before. A unit overpriced by 100 points per model getting a 50 point reduction doesn’t all of a sudden make it competitive. They barely climbed a tier and now solidly sit at the ‘trashy’ tier.
Right, but they didn't only get a price cut - their guns are also a lot more effective, and they are getting sept traits and stratagems.
With a -1 to hit Sept trait and a “shoot again” stratagem for 2cp I’d agree with you. Sadly, that’s not reality.
Point is that if one doesn’t know the power level of most Tau index units he’d probably get trolled by GW’s teaser campaign into thinking these units are now awesome.
casvalremdeikun wrote: So, judging by what I have seen so far, it is pretty disappointing that Crisis Suits are not that great. I still think suit armies will still be viable, but it seems like better options for suits still exist. Oh well. I still plan on getting a Commander and making him into a Coldstar. Or I might just get CharFarsight. I don't want a Tau force, but the stuff I want I want to make decently powerful, so that if I change my mind, I can use them and not feel dumb.
Don’t get too hyped about the Riptide/etc. buffs. You need to remember these units were in the ‘unbelievably useless trash’ tier before. A unit overpriced by 100 points per model getting a 50 point reduction doesn’t all of a sudden make it competitive. They barely climbed a tier and now solidly sit at the ‘trashy’ tier.
I agree that the Riptide hype is a bit overblown. The HBC variant is now useful and potentially has a place in competitive Tau lists, but it's definitely not the earth-shattering OMG revamp that some have been making it out to be.
With a -1 to hit Sept trait and a “shoot again” stratagem for 2cp I’d agree with you. Sadly, that’s not reality.
Not a reality yet. The -1 to hit thing probably is very unlikely to happen, but I can certainly see a shoot twice strat being in the mix. However, calling Tau "trash tier" is premature and probably inaccurate based on what we've seen so far. Fire Warriors are a powerful tool when supported, and fusion Commanders are still an option. As you noted, Borkan Y'Vahras are solid contenders now, as well. I don't expect Tau to shake up the ITC comepetitve meta in spectacular fashion, but I do see us contending at a relatively high level. It might be more of the same monobuild gak that we're cureently in just with a different monobuild, but I'm hopeful the changes will spark some variety in tournament lists.
casvalremdeikun wrote: So, judging by what I have seen so far, it is pretty disappointing that Crisis Suits are not that great. I still think suit armies will still be viable, but it seems like better options for suits still exist. Oh well. I still plan on getting a Commander and making him into a Coldstar. Or I might just get CharFarsight. I don't want a Tau force, but the stuff I want I want to make decently powerful, so that if I change my mind, I can use them and not feel dumb.
Don’t get too hyped about the Riptide/etc. buffs. You need to remember these units were in the ‘unbelievably useless trash’ tier before. A unit overpriced by 100 points per model getting a 50 point reduction doesn’t all of a sudden make it competitive. They barely climbed a tier and now solidly sit at the ‘trashy’ tier.
Yeah. Same thing happened to the Wraithknight, a 50 point reduction, and how many do you see on the table now?
A unit overpriced by 100 points getting a 50 point reduction+Upgraded weapon profiles+Sept buffs+Usefull and powerfull Stratagems can absolutely become playable and competitive.
I think Riptides still look significantly worse than, say, Hive Tyrants, ignoring stratagems. Though Hive Tyrants are really great so that doesn't necessarily mean Riptides are bad. It's probably pretty easy to justify one Riptide in a list since you can keep it at 3++ forever, but it seems harder to justify more than one which you'd probably want to shield with costly drones.
Galas wrote: A unit overpriced by 100 points getting a 50 point reduction+Upgraded weapon profiles+Sept buffs+Usefull and powerfull Stratagems can absolutely become playable and competitive.
From what Hikaru had said, the Riptide itself saw a 24 point reduction, the HBC saw a points reduction of a similar cost, and the IA saw a 42 point drop.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Was somebody waiting for this? Can't remember...
Also, Iridium is now an upgrade rather than a Signature System as is the Enforcer Battlesuit. They mention "Crisis Battlesuits with four flamers apiece" in the write-up for the Tenet, so we might see more slots open up on basic suits?
What kills me is the fact that folks apparently expect to get the best chaos stratagem coupled with what is obviously the most abusive chapter trait in order for something to not be trash.
I mean, you seriously think MORE of the BS -1 to hit an entire faction, let alone one that doubles down on range would really be good for the health of the game?
I sincerely hope NO ONE gets that silly negative to hit BS moving forward. Specific units I am fine with, it's easy to adjust their particular cost, an optional army wide trait however is the stupidest move yet made this edition.
I sincerely hope GW patches the hit mod mechanic in the next CA. "Hit mods do not stack, and when applying both negative and positive mods they cancel." Done.
Next they should make mixed faction armies forfeit all none rulebook staratgems. Want to play soup? Go for it make a fluffy strange list with stacking buffs, but there is a cost.
C&C node could potentially be interesting if you sell out on Crisis Suits. 9 triple CIB suits dropping in with the rumored +1 BS strat would certainly enjoy rerolling wounds, but that costs like 1000pts. Probably not worthwhile, but might be the new version of the crisis bomb. Otherwise, avoiding shooting with your best shooting model to get wound rerolls for another suit seems unwise.
It's nice that the fusion blades aren't a strict downgrade any more, I suppose. FSE does not look like a useful Sept, based on these reveals.
MilkmanAl wrote: C&C node could potentially be interesting if you sell out on Crisis Suits. 9 triple CIB suits dropping in with the rumored +1 BS strat would certainly enjoy rerolling wounds, but that costs like 1000pts. Probably not worthwhile, but might be the new version of the crisis bomb. Otherwise, avoiding shooting with your best shooting model to get wound rerolls for another suit seems unwise.
It's nice that the fusion blades aren't a strict downgrade any more, I suppose. FSE does not look like a useful Sept, based on these reveals.
FSE is the one who gets the +1BS Strat from what Hikaru said.
Hmm, I wonder if you can take both Fusion Blades and Onager Gauntlet on the same Commander... although probably not, seeing that Signature Systems are most likely the Tau equivalent of relics.
Pandabeer wrote: Hmm, I wonder if you can take both Fusion Blades and Onager Gauntlet on the same Commander... although probably not, seeing that Signature Systems are most likely the Tau equivalent of relics.
The Character restriction is unfortunate, as I'd love to be able to put fusion blades on a Riptide or Ghostkeel. in order to run maximum melee gundam tau, you'd need to have three detachments to get Farsight and two Commanders. The upshot of that would be that you could take a non-enclaves detachment in the one that gets the Onager gauntlet, to do your mix-n-match trait goodness.
Protip: Onager Commander goes in a Viorla detachment so you can get Aunshi for truly maximum melee tau.
Pandabeer wrote: Hmm, I wonder if you can take both Fusion Blades and Onager Gauntlet on the same Commander... although probably not, seeing that Signature Systems are most likely the Tau equivalent of relics.
The Character restriction is unfortunate, as I'd love to be able to put fusion blades on a Riptide or Ghostkeel. in order to run maximum melee gundam tau, you'd need to have three detachments to get Farsight and two Commanders. The upshot of that would be that you could take a non-enclaves detachment in the one that gets the Onager gauntlet, to do your mix-n-match trait goodness.
Protip: Onager Commander goes in a Viorla detachment so you can get Aunshi for truly maximum melee tau.
I'm intrigued by your statements, because now I'm just thinking about a Ghostkeel running around with Fusion Blades on its shoulders.
MilkmanAl wrote: C&C node could potentially be interesting if you sell out on Crisis Suits. 9 triple CIB suits dropping in with the rumored +1 BS strat would certainly enjoy rerolling wounds, but that costs like 1000pts. Probably not worthwhile, but might be the new version of the crisis bomb. Otherwise, avoiding shooting with your best shooting model to get wound rerolls for another suit seems unwise.
It's nice that the fusion blades aren't a strict downgrade any more, I suppose. FSE does not look like a useful Sept, based on these reveals.
its only ONE suit that gets to benefit, if i read it correctly
MilkmanAl wrote: C&C node could potentially be interesting if you sell out on Crisis Suits. 9 triple CIB suits dropping in with the rumored +1 BS strat would certainly enjoy rerolling wounds, but that costs like 1000pts. Probably not worthwhile, but might be the new version of the crisis bomb. Otherwise, avoiding shooting with your best shooting model to get wound rerolls for another suit seems unwise.
It's nice that the fusion blades aren't a strict downgrade any more, I suppose. FSE does not look like a useful Sept, based on these reveals.
its only ONE suit that gets to benefit, if i read it correctly
MilkmanAl wrote: C&C node could potentially be interesting if you sell out on Crisis Suits. 9 triple CIB suits dropping in with the rumored +1 BS strat would certainly enjoy rerolling wounds, but that costs like 1000pts. Probably not worthwhile, but might be the new version of the crisis bomb. Otherwise, avoiding shooting with your best shooting model to get wound rerolls for another suit seems unwise.
It's nice that the fusion blades aren't a strict downgrade any more, I suppose. FSE does not look like a useful Sept, based on these reveals.
its only ONE suit that gets to benefit, if i read it correctly
Pandabeer wrote: Hmm, I wonder if you can take both Fusion Blades and Onager Gauntlet on the same Commander... although probably not, seeing that Signature Systems are most likely the Tau equivalent of relics.
The Character restriction is unfortunate, as I'd love to be able to put fusion blades on a Riptide or Ghostkeel. in order to run maximum melee gundam tau, you'd need to have three detachments to get Farsight and two Commanders. The upshot of that would be that you could take a non-enclaves detachment in the one that gets the Onager gauntlet, to do your mix-n-match trait goodness.
Protip: Onager Commander goes in a Viorla detachment so you can get Aunshi for truly maximum melee tau.
Did you just say "maximum melee" in regards to T'au? Don't think you using the army right.
casvalremdeikun wrote: So, judging by what I have seen so far, it is pretty disappointing that Crisis Suits are not that great. I still think suit armies will still be viable, but it seems like better options for suits still exist. Oh well. I still plan on getting a Commander and making him into a Coldstar. Or I might just get CharFarsight. I don't want a Tau force, but the stuff I want I want to make decently powerful, so that if I change my mind, I can use them and not feel dumb.
Don’t get too hyped about the Riptide/etc. buffs. You need to remember these units were in the ‘unbelievably useless trash’ tier before. A unit overpriced by 100 points per model getting a 50 point reduction doesn’t all of a sudden make it competitive. They barely climbed a tier and now solidly sit at the ‘trashy’ tier.
Are you aware the codex Riptide HBC gets around 50% more shots and 100% more damage per shot with a price reduction. When you combine those 2 together 1 codex HBC Riptide has more firepower then 2 index HBC Riptides or more firepower then 1 Index Riptide with fire twice.
Add on Command and control so the Riptide rerolls all failed wounds and now 1 Codex Riptide outputs approx similar damage to 3 Index Riptides.
I do not follow you reasoning on “They barely climbed a tier and now solidly sit at the ‘trashy’ tier”
How is this remotely in the trashy’ tier? With the 200%+ extra firepower, lower points cost, option of 3++ or jump, shoot, jump alongside that firepower, they move well beyond the trashy tier.
Pandabeer wrote: Hmm, I wonder if you can take both Fusion Blades and Onager Gauntlet on the same Commander... although probably not, seeing that Signature Systems are most likely the Tau equivalent of relics.
The Character restriction is unfortunate, as I'd love to be able to put fusion blades on a Riptide or Ghostkeel. in order to run maximum melee gundam tau, you'd need to have three detachments to get Farsight and two Commanders. The upshot of that would be that you could take a non-enclaves detachment in the one that gets the Onager gauntlet, to do your mix-n-match trait goodness.
Protip: Onager Commander goes in a Viorla detachment so you can get Aunshi for truly maximum melee tau.
Did you just say "maximum melee" in regards to T'au? Don't think you using the army right.
Did I stutter?
The needle for maximum melee on tau has changed. The new possibilities WILL be explored! shooting is wonderful but now Minsc leads! Melta bayonets for everyone!
davou wrote: command and control node is weak; granted it was way too strong on old buffmanders, but it would have been about right as a limited us CP gobbler.
It seems strong to me under some situations. Use it to boost a Riptide nove charged weapon. Perhaps use it on a cheap commander with a drone controller so you are boosting drone squads and a riptide.
If you're talking using C&C node on a single suit, it had better be a Stormsurge or an Y'Vahra. Except in weird situations, nothing else is going to be worth giving up 4 essentially guaranteed fusion hits to reroll wounds.
As I mentioned, I think this strat is the new advent of the Crisis Bomb. Load up 9 suits with CIBs, drop them and a Commander somewhere that you can actually make use of 27 CIBs, and go nuts. Make sure you bring a load of drones. that's a ton of points, but if you can manage adequate marker support against your main target(s), it'll do huge damage. Doubly so if they all have +1BS.
As for the melee Tau thing, if it hasn't crossed your mind to make a close-quraters Tau army, you haven't been playing around enough. I can totally see having a legion of flamer suits getting in close and dusting it up. Nobody will see it coming, and with rerolling 1s to wound, it could do some real damage. It's a friendly-only strategy, for sure, but it's funny as hell.
MilkmanAl wrote: If you're talking using C&C node on a single suit, it had better be a Stormsurge or an Y'Vahra. Except in weird situations, nothing else is going to be worth giving up 4 essentially guaranteed fusion hits to reroll wounds.
As I mentioned, I think this strat is the new advent of the Crisis Bomb. Load up 9 suits with CIBs, drop them and a Commander somewhere that you can actually make use of 27 CIBs, and go nuts. Make sure you bring a load of drones. that's a ton of points, but if you can manage adequate marker support against your main target(s), it'll do huge damage. Doubly so if they all have +1BS.
As for the melee Tau thing, if it hasn't crossed your mind to make a close-quraters Tau army, you haven't been playing around enough. I can totally see having a legion of flamer suits getting in close and dusting it up. Nobody will see it coming, and with rerolling 1s to wound, it could do some real damage. It's a friendly-only strategy, for sure, but it's funny as hell.
If you are burning 4 fusions on a commander then i highly doubt you would care to hang out near a stormsurge.
if you are then you probably built around the fact that you want to use CC node.
so the commander would probably be built cheap.
C bombs and CQC tau sound hilarious though. personally would love to give them with breachers a shot.
Pandabeer wrote: Hmm, I wonder if you can take both Fusion Blades and Onager Gauntlet on the same Commander... although probably not, seeing that Signature Systems are most likely the Tau equivalent of relics.
The Character restriction is unfortunate, as I'd love to be able to put fusion blades on a Riptide or Ghostkeel. in order to run maximum melee gundam tau, you'd need to have three detachments to get Farsight and two Commanders. The upshot of that would be that you could take a non-enclaves detachment in the one that gets the Onager gauntlet, to do your mix-n-match trait goodness.
Protip: Onager Commander goes in a Viorla detachment so you can get Aunshi for truly maximum melee tau.
Did you just say "maximum melee" in regards to T'au? Don't think you using the army right.
Did I stutter?
The needle for maximum melee on tau has changed. The new possibilities WILL be explored! shooting is wonderful but now Minsc leads! Melta bayonets for everyone!
Exalted.
There's still an assault phase in a Tau player's turn, last I checked. There are plenty of things you can do in it. Maybe not many enemies will die, but assaulting things is a great way to prevent them from shooting and assaulting other things. Loads of Tau stuff flies, so having your devilfish charge a land raider or a big unit of ork boyz may well be a solid option.
To me it looks like the cnc node thing is basically a trap - at least with XV8s. Putting together a big unit to maximise the effectiveness of the strat is a bad idea - way to risky.
I can see it being a bit more justifiable on something like a broadside unit though. If they are chucking out 6 HRR shots, a load of SMS fire and maybe some HK missiles, rerolls to wound will matter.
I really want to know which units get to have the high-intensity plasma rifle. That's a nice gun and it would be a shame if only Farsight gets it.
MilkmanAl wrote: If you're talking using C&C node on a single suit, it had better be a Stormsurge or an Y'Vahra. Except in weird situations, nothing else is going to be worth giving up 4 essentially guaranteed fusion hits to reroll wounds.
As I mentioned, I think this strat is the new advent of the Crisis Bomb. Load up 9 suits with CIBs, drop them and a Commander somewhere that you can actually make use of 27 CIBs, and go nuts. Make sure you bring a load of drones. that's a ton of points, but if you can manage adequate marker support against your main target(s), it'll do huge damage. Doubly so if they all have +1BS.
As for the melee Tau thing, if it hasn't crossed your mind to make a close-quraters Tau army, you haven't been playing around enough. I can totally see having a legion of flamer suits getting in close and dusting it up. Nobody will see it coming, and with rerolling 1s to wound, it could do some real damage. It's a friendly-only strategy, for sure, but it's funny as hell.
There can be times where the Commander cannot target a worthwhile unit or for victory points you need to kill that unit on an object point outside the commanders range on the last turn. In which case it could be very powerful to trade away the commanders shots. It’s not something to do every single turn.
I gotta say that at first I thought the Command and Control Node was really weak. Giving up BS 2+ for reroll wounds did not seem good. But I do see it is a battlesuit UNIT now, so that might work if you can pack in a bunch of Crisis Suits or Broadsides. It could be interesting.
I really want to see the XV-85 Enforcer and I am super happy that Iridium suits are not unique now. I love me some more types of battlesuits. I wish the FW XV-8X suits were in here with special stuff too.
I really hope that a battlesuit heavy army still works. I am seriously thinking running multiple septs at this point. Tau Firewarriors battalion and Borken Big suits for heavy guns and range. Maybe and Vioth (SP?) detachment with all stealth units? I think there are at least all kinds of new options.
Hooray, GW confirmed that the Dawn Blade was not a Chaos weapon (cites it as a “xenos sword older than the Imperium”). That makes the theory that it’s a Necron sword slightly closer to canon.
Verviedi wrote: Hooray, GW confirmed that the Dawn Blade was not a Chaos weapon (cites it as a “xenos sword older than the Imperium”). That makes the theory that it’s a Necron sword slightly closer to canon.
Doesn't change the fact that it makes him a fish vampire but i would of preferred it stay a mystery
Verviedi wrote: Hooray, GW confirmed that the Dawn Blade was not a Chaos weapon (cites it as a “xenos sword older than the Imperium”). That makes the theory that it’s a Necron sword slightly closer to canon.
It's a Xenos Blade, simply because it's currently used by a Xenos, i.e. Farsight. I wouldn't use that snippet to interpret the weapon's or the character's (or by implication likely a lot of mysterious background of the Tau themselves) in-depth background.
Verviedi wrote: Hooray, GW confirmed that the Dawn Blade was not a Chaos weapon (cites it as a “xenos sword older than the Imperium”). That makes the theory that it’s a Necron sword slightly closer to canon.
It's a Xenos Blade, simply because it's currently used by a Xenos, i.e. Farsight. I wouldn't use that snippet to interpret the weapon's or the character's (or by implication likely a lot of mysterious background of the Tau themselves) in-depth background.
You did miss the important part of "... a life-draining xenos sword older than the Imperium itself...." Since it's older than the Imperium, it's way older than the T'au.
Guys, use Farsight himself for the CC node stratagem. You lose out on up to two shots (the horror...) and get to buff a Riptide's damage output. Plus Farsight actually looks okay now with the buffs to the Dawn Blade. Not sure how Farsight's point cost is, so maybe he's too expensive, but...eh.
Verviedi wrote: Hooray, GW confirmed that the Dawn Blade was not a Chaos weapon (cites it as a “xenos sword older than the Imperium”). That makes the theory that it’s a Necron sword slightly closer to canon.
It's a Xenos Blade, simply because it's currently used by a Xenos, i.e. Farsight. I wouldn't use that snippet to interpret the weapon's or the character's (or by implication likely a lot of mysterious background of the Tau themselves) in-depth background.
I disagree. Common usage would have the word 'Xenos' in the phrase 'Xenos Blade' relate to manufacture, not use - similarly to phrases like Damascus Steel. Plus it's older than the Imperium and Tau, well, aren't. That doesn't mean Necron of course, but it could be Necron. Or Demiurge. Yeah, lets go with it being a Squat relic, it even works with the not liking Orks thing.
Verviedi wrote: Hooray, GW confirmed that the Dawn Blade was not a Chaos weapon (cites it as a “xenos sword older than the Imperium”). That makes the theory that it’s a Necron sword slightly closer to canon.
It's a Xenos Blade, simply because it's currently used by a Xenos, i.e. Farsight. I wouldn't use that snippet to interpret the weapon's or the character's (or by implication likely a lot of mysterious background of the Tau themselves) in-depth background.
Except that doesn't make sense, because its older than the Imperium, so it can't be Tau as they are much younger civilization, and English grammar doesn't work like that.
If I say this car is German, that doesn't mean a German is driving it, it means that it was made in Germany.
ZergSmasher wrote: Guys, use Farsight himself for the CC node stratagem. You lose out on up to two shots (the horror...) and get to buff a Riptide's damage output. Plus Farsight actually looks okay now with the buffs to the Dawn Blade. Not sure how Farsight's point cost is, so maybe he's too expensive, but...eh.
Actually, that leads to an interesting idea. Nothing in the stratagem says anything about not being able to charge in the Charge Phase or attack in the Fight Phase. Use a commander with Fusion Blades to use this, then charge and attack with the blades. They still get 2 Fusion attacks. Or just charge something like a tank to keep it from causing trouble for a turn.
Verviedi wrote: Hooray, GW confirmed that the Dawn Blade was not a Chaos weapon (cites it as a “xenos sword older than the Imperium”). That makes the theory that it’s a Necron sword slightly closer to canon.
It's a Xenos Blade, simply because it's currently used by a Xenos, i.e. Farsight. I wouldn't use that snippet to interpret the weapon's or the character's (or by implication likely a lot of mysterious background of the Tau themselves) in-depth background.
Except that doesn't make sense, because its older than the Imperium, so it can't be Tau as they are much younger civilization, and English grammar doesn't work like that.
If I say this car is German, that doesn't mean a German is driving it, it means that it was made in Germany.
Yeah, it's probably made by some Xenos that's either longdead, long forgotten, or otherwise.. There's alot of powerful, scary xenos weapons that really defy reality at times.
Verviedi wrote: Hooray, GW confirmed that the Dawn Blade was not a Chaos weapon (cites it as a “xenos sword older than the Imperium”). That makes the theory that it’s a Necron sword slightly closer to canon.
It's a Xenos Blade, simply because it's currently used by a Xenos, i.e. Farsight. I wouldn't use that snippet to interpret the weapon's or the character's (or by implication likely a lot of mysterious background of the Tau themselves) in-depth background.
Except that doesn't make sense, because its older than the Imperium, so it can't be Tau as they are much younger civilization, and English grammar doesn't work like that.
If I say this car is German, that doesn't mean a German is driving it, it means that it was made in Germany.
Yeah, it's probably made by some Xenos that's either longdead, long forgotten, or otherwise.. There's alot of powerful, scary xenos weapons that really defy reality at times.
No there's not! That's not allowed!
It is a rule of modern fandoms that nothing is allowed to be powerful, impactful, mysterious or important unless the most dedicated elements of the fanbase can easily identify it as a Thing They Recognize.
If it's not a chaos sword, then it HAS to be a sword of either Necron, Ctan, Old one, or Eldar manufacture. Any other alternative, including keeping it ambiguous, would be unfairly denying dedicated fans the opportunity to point their fingers and yell "I KNOW what that IS!!"
Verviedi wrote: Hooray, GW confirmed that the Dawn Blade was not a Chaos weapon (cites it as a “xenos sword older than the Imperium”). That makes the theory that it’s a Necron sword slightly closer to canon.
It's a Xenos Blade, simply because it's currently used by a Xenos, i.e. Farsight. I wouldn't use that snippet to interpret the weapon's or the character's (or by implication likely a lot of mysterious background of the Tau themselves) in-depth background.
Except that doesn't make sense, because its older than the Imperium, so it can't be Tau as they are much younger civilization, and English grammar doesn't work like that. If I say this car is German, that doesn't mean a German is driving it, it means that it was made in Germany.
Yeah, it's probably made by some Xenos that's either longdead, long forgotten, or otherwise.. There's alot of powerful, scary xenos weapons that really defy reality at times.
No there's not! That's not allowed!
It is a rule of modern fandoms that nothing is allowed to be powerful, impactful, mysterious or important unless the most dedicated elements of the fanbase can easily identify it as a Thing They Recognize.
If it's not a chaos sword, then it HAS to be a sword of either Necron, Ctan, Old one, or Eldar manufacture. Any other alternative, including keeping it ambiguous, would be unfairly denying dedicated fans the opportunity to point their fingers and yell "I KNOW what that IS!!"
As much as I would like a "minor" xenos race to make an appearance (those slaugth look like fun...), the sword does look pretty necron, and life stealing does sound like a necron thing.
Verviedi wrote: Hooray, GW confirmed that the Dawn Blade was not a Chaos weapon (cites it as a “xenos sword older than the Imperium”). That makes the theory that it’s a Necron sword slightly closer to canon.
It's a Xenos Blade, simply because it's currently used by a Xenos, i.e. Farsight. I wouldn't use that snippet to interpret the weapon's or the character's (or by implication likely a lot of mysterious background of the Tau themselves) in-depth background.
Except that doesn't make sense, because its older than the Imperium, so it can't be Tau as they are much younger civilization, and English grammar doesn't work like that.
If I say this car is German, that doesn't mean a German is driving it, it means that it was made in Germany.
Yeah, it's probably made by some Xenos that's either longdead, long forgotten, or otherwise.. There's alot of powerful, scary xenos weapons that really defy reality at times.
No there's not! That's not allowed!
It is a rule of modern fandoms that nothing is allowed to be powerful, impactful, mysterious or important unless the most dedicated elements of the fanbase can easily identify it as a Thing They Recognize.
If it's not a chaos sword, then it HAS to be a sword of either Necron, Ctan, Old one, or Eldar manufacture. Any other alternative, including keeping it ambiguous, would be unfairly denying dedicated fans the opportunity to point their fingers and yell "I KNOW what that IS!!"
As much as I would like a "minor" xenos race to make an appearance (those slaugth look like fun...), the sword does look pretty necron, and life stealing does sound like a necron thing.
Oh no I'm sure at some point Trayzn the infinite will show up to cackle at Farsight and go "Bwa ha ha, I see you hold the Blade Of C'traxln! I and all other Necrons recognize it, that MYSTERIOUS GREEN SWORD that LOOKS LIKE THE ONES WE HAVE! Only the most dedicated editors of fan wiki pages would possibly know about that mysterious weapon!"
Because that's just how you do fantasy worldbuilding in the age of internet fan theories/wiki pages.
It'll be some special necron sword that got used in some novel, preferably as part of the horus heresy (AKA the thing everyone in the 40k universe now knows about and constantly references whenever possible) and someone will recognize it and get excited.
I like how the article says 'combine this with a Riptide Battlesuit for the best results!'. Hello, GW, you know Forge World 'balanced' crutch suits will be all this stratagem will be used on during games on competitive tables? Again, 1 mere pitiful CP to turn Ta'unar into Warlord-killer, seeing it has Battlesuit keyword too? Name just one more efficient stratagem than this in the whole game. I bet you can't. And people try to complain about this book
I also like how Onager morphed from power-fist equivalent into dreadnought-grade weapon, and lost all drawbacks it used to have. Not even standard -1 to hit, because reasons
The needle for maximum melee on tau has changed. The new possibilities WILL be explored! shooting is wonderful but now Minsc leads! Melta bayonets for everyone!
Lies. Minsc wants nothing to do with Tau. Way to talkative and too much shooting.
Verviedi wrote: Hooray, GW confirmed that the Dawn Blade was not a Chaos weapon (cites it as a “xenos sword older than the Imperium”). That makes the theory that it’s a Necron sword slightly closer to canon.
According to Warhammer 40k, "xenos sword older than the Imperium" does not in any way prevent it from being a chaos weapon. It's still probably a chaos weapon.
I also like how Onager morphed from power-fist equivalent into dreadnought-grade weapon, and lost all drawbacks it used to have. Not even standard -1 to hit, because reasons
Because a single powerfist hit for the price of a Relic is absolute crap? Even worse if you give it a -1 to hit.
Irbis wrote: I like how the article says 'combine this with a Riptide Battlesuit for the best results!'. Hello, GW, you know Forge World 'balanced' crutch suits will be all this stratagem will be used on during games on competitive tables? Again, 1 mere pitiful CP to turn Ta'unar into Warlord-killer, seeing it has Battlesuit keyword too? Name just one more efficient stratagem than this in the whole game. I bet you can't. And people try to complain about this book
I also like how Onager morphed from power-fist equivalent into dreadnought-grade weapon, and lost all drawbacks it used to have. Not even standard -1 to hit, because reasons
Being able to make only a single attack despite whatever your attack stat is does not constitute a drawback?
Verviedi wrote: Hooray, GW confirmed that the Dawn Blade was not a Chaos weapon (cites it as a “xenos sword older than the Imperium”). That makes the theory that it’s a Necron sword slightly closer to canon.
'Xenos' can absolutely mean 'Chaos'. Laer were xenos too, remember? There are literally thousands of xeno civilizations that worship Chaos, sooo...
Irbis wrote: I like how the article says 'combine this with a Riptide Battlesuit for the best results!'. Hello, GW, you know Forge World 'balanced' crutch suits will be all this stratagem will be used on during games on competitive tables? Again, 1 mere pitiful CP to turn Ta'unar into Warlord-killer, seeing it has Battlesuit keyword too? Name just one more efficient stratagem than this in the whole game. I bet you can't. And people try to complain about this book
I also like how Onager morphed from power-fist equivalent into dreadnought-grade weapon, and lost all drawbacks it used to have. Not even standard -1 to hit, because reasons
Being able to make only a single attack despite whatever your attack stat is does not constitute a drawback?
A single attack is how it has always worked and its always been very useful in the right situation. Some people are going to read it as you can only use the weapon for 1A and can make all the other Attack dice with the basic weapon. Can you use two CC weapons?
I also like how Onager morphed from power-fist equivalent into dreadnought-grade weapon, and lost all drawbacks it used to have. Not even standard -1 to hit, because reasons
Because a single powerfist hit for the price of a Relic is absolute crap? Even worse if you give it a -1 to hit.
Do not forget if its on the warlord it will be able to rerolls miss's.
Irbis wrote: I like how the article says 'combine this with a Riptide Battlesuit for the best results!'. Hello, GW, you know Forge World 'balanced' crutch suits will be all this stratagem will be used on during games on competitive tables? Again, 1 mere pitiful CP to turn Ta'unar into Warlord-killer, seeing it has Battlesuit keyword too? Name just one more efficient stratagem than this in the whole game. I bet you can't. And people try to complain about this book
I also like how Onager morphed from power-fist equivalent into dreadnought-grade weapon, and lost all drawbacks it used to have. Not even standard -1 to hit, because reasons
Being able to make only a single attack despite whatever your attack stat is does not constitute a drawback?
A single attack is how it has always worked and its always been very useful in the right situation. Some people are going to read it as you can only use the weapon for 1A and can make all the other Attack dice with the basic weapon. Can you use two CC weapons?
I also like how Onager morphed from power-fist equivalent into dreadnought-grade weapon, and lost all drawbacks it used to have. Not even standard -1 to hit, because reasons
Because a single powerfist hit for the price of a Relic is absolute crap? Even worse if you give it a -1 to hit.
Do not forget if its on the warlord it will be able to rerolls miss's.
Of course they're going to read it like that. Because that's how it works. The model is going to get their other however many attacks (I'm assuming because tau it's like...two more? At probably WS3+ S5?). That's the way the weapon is worded - it can be used for only one attack, but it does not say "instead of attacking normally."
Dandelion wrote: One of the rumors said that Coldstars will be able to take any weapon except ion. If it's true, I see a lot of fusion blade coldstars in the future.
Absolutley, FSE Coldstar with fusion blades sounds pretty fun. Pop Kauyon first turn to open some gaps with your shooting, turn two scoot into position to use melta range + FSE devastating counter strike to deliver fairly precise fusion hits possibly followed by a charge if needed. Not insane but might catch the odd character or tank off guard especially if you can keep the Coldstar alive after his heroic charge
Irbis wrote: I like how the article says 'combine this with a Riptide Battlesuit for the best results!'. Hello, GW, you know Forge World 'balanced' crutch suits will be all this stratagem will be used on during games on competitive tables? Again, 1 mere pitiful CP to turn Ta'unar into Warlord-killer, seeing it has Battlesuit keyword too? Name just one more efficient stratagem than this in the whole game. I bet you can't. And people try to complain about this book
I also like how Onager morphed from power-fist equivalent into dreadnought-grade weapon, and lost all drawbacks it used to have. Not even standard -1 to hit, because reasons
Being able to make only a single attack despite whatever your attack stat is does not constitute a drawback?
A single attack is how it has always worked and its always been very useful in the right situation. Some people are going to read it as you can only use the weapon for 1A and can make all the other Attack dice with the basic weapon. Can you use two CC weapons?
I also like how Onager morphed from power-fist equivalent into dreadnought-grade weapon, and lost all drawbacks it used to have. Not even standard -1 to hit, because reasons
Because a single powerfist hit for the price of a Relic is absolute crap? Even worse if you give it a -1 to hit.
Do not forget if its on the warlord it will be able to rerolls miss's.
Of course they're going to read it like that. Because that's how it works. The model is going to get their other however many attacks (I'm assuming because tau it's like...two more? At probably WS3+ S5?). That's the way the weapon is worded - it can be used for only one attack, but it does not say "instead of attacking normally."
In that case it has lost all its drawbacks. Unless there has been a change commanders have 4 attacks.
Irbis wrote: I like how the article says 'combine this with a Riptide Battlesuit for the best results!'. Hello, GW, you know Forge World 'balanced' crutch suits will be all this stratagem will be used on during games on competitive tables? Again, 1 mere pitiful CP to turn Ta'unar into Warlord-killer, seeing it has Battlesuit keyword too? Name just one more efficient stratagem than this in the whole game. I bet you can't. And people try to complain about this book
I also like how Onager morphed from power-fist equivalent into dreadnought-grade weapon, and lost all drawbacks it used to have. Not even standard -1 to hit, because reasons
Being able to make only a single attack despite whatever your attack stat is does not constitute a drawback?
A single attack is how it has always worked and its always been very useful in the right situation. Some people are going to read it as you can only use the weapon for 1A and can make all the other Attack dice with the basic weapon. Can you use two CC weapons?
I also like how Onager morphed from power-fist equivalent into dreadnought-grade weapon, and lost all drawbacks it used to have. Not even standard -1 to hit, because reasons
Because a single powerfist hit for the price of a Relic is absolute crap? Even worse if you give it a -1 to hit.
Do not forget if its on the warlord it will be able to rerolls miss's.
Of course they're going to read it like that. Because that's how it works. The model is going to get their other however many attacks (I'm assuming because tau it's like...two more? At probably WS3+ S5?). That's the way the weapon is worded - it can be used for only one attack, but it does not say "instead of attacking normally."
In that case it has lost all its drawbacks. Unless there has been a change commanders have 4 attacks.
Being only usable for one attack IS a drawback, by default melee weapons affect all your attacks.
I'm sorry, but if you think this relic is anything higher than "cute" tier I don't know what to say to you. A catachan company commander with a powerfist does more damage to a standard tank than a commander with an onager gauntlet, and he costs what, five times less points?
Irbis wrote: I like how the article says 'combine this with a Riptide Battlesuit for the best results!'. Hello, GW, you know Forge World 'balanced' crutch suits will be all this stratagem will be used on during games on competitive tables? Again, 1 mere pitiful CP to turn Ta'unar into Warlord-killer, seeing it has Battlesuit keyword too? Name just one more efficient stratagem than this in the whole game. I bet you can't. And people try to complain about this book
I also like how Onager morphed from power-fist equivalent into dreadnought-grade weapon, and lost all drawbacks it used to have. Not even standard -1 to hit, because reasons
Being able to make only a single attack despite whatever your attack stat is does not constitute a drawback?
A single attack is how it has always worked and its always been very useful in the right situation. Some people are going to read it as you can only use the weapon for 1A and can make all the other Attack dice with the basic weapon. Can you use two CC weapons?
I also like how Onager morphed from power-fist equivalent into dreadnought-grade weapon, and lost all drawbacks it used to have. Not even standard -1 to hit, because reasons
Because a single powerfist hit for the price of a Relic is absolute crap? Even worse if you give it a -1 to hit.
Do not forget if its on the warlord it will be able to rerolls miss's.
Of course they're going to read it like that. Because that's how it works. The model is going to get their other however many attacks (I'm assuming because tau it's like...two more? At probably WS3+ S5?). That's the way the weapon is worded - it can be used for only one attack, but it does not say "instead of attacking normally."
In that case it has lost all its drawbacks. Unless there has been a change commanders have 4 attacks.
Being only usable for one attack IS a drawback, by default melee weapons affect all your attacks.
I'm sorry, but if you think this relic is anything higher than "cute" tier I don't know what to say to you. A catachan company commander with a powerfist does more damage to a standard tank than a commander with an onager gauntlet, and he costs what, five times less points?
It’s always been one attack it’s not a new drawback and all the old drawbacks have gone. You still get your extra 3 basic attacks after using it. It’s not cute tier, years of using its 1 attack tells me its extremely valuable when used correctly.
Now I am do not know the Catachan company commander that well so please correct me if I am wrong. Isn't that only S8 -3AP, D3, -1 to hit. While the Onager gauntlet is S10, -4, D6 and with the warlord trait reroll miss’s instead of -1 to hit. On top of that you get 3A extra attacks at S5.
How is the Catachan company doing more damage, even with the 3A at those stats its going do less damage on average isn't it? What have I missed? It looks to me like the Onager gauntlet is far better and just as good as it has always been, if not better.
Irbis wrote: I like how the article says 'combine this with a Riptide Battlesuit for the best results!'. Hello, GW, you know Forge World 'balanced' crutch suits will be all this stratagem will be used on during games on competitive tables? Again, 1 mere pitiful CP to turn Ta'unar into Warlord-killer, seeing it has Battlesuit keyword too? Name just one more efficient stratagem than this in the whole game. I bet you can't. And people try to complain about this book
I also like how Onager morphed from power-fist equivalent into dreadnought-grade weapon, and lost all drawbacks it used to have. Not even standard -1 to hit, because reasons
Being able to make only a single attack despite whatever your attack stat is does not constitute a drawback?
A single attack is how it has always worked and its always been very useful in the right situation. Some people are going to read it as you can only use the weapon for 1A and can make all the other Attack dice with the basic weapon. Can you use two CC weapons?
I also like how Onager morphed from power-fist equivalent into dreadnought-grade weapon, and lost all drawbacks it used to have. Not even standard -1 to hit, because reasons
Because a single powerfist hit for the price of a Relic is absolute crap? Even worse if you give it a -1 to hit.
Do not forget if its on the warlord it will be able to rerolls miss's.
Of course they're going to read it like that. Because that's how it works. The model is going to get their other however many attacks (I'm assuming because tau it's like...two more? At probably WS3+ S5?). That's the way the weapon is worded - it can be used for only one attack, but it does not say "instead of attacking normally."
In that case it has lost all its drawbacks. Unless there has been a change commanders have 4 attacks.
Should be remembered that Instant Death is no longer a thing, and vehicles now have 3 to 4 times as many wounds as they used to. The ability to have a decent chance at one hit killing stuff is long gone.
Irbis wrote: I like how the article says 'combine this with a Riptide Battlesuit for the best results!'. Hello, GW, you know Forge World 'balanced' crutch suits will be all this stratagem will be used on during games on competitive tables? Again, 1 mere pitiful CP to turn Ta'unar into Warlord-killer, seeing it has Battlesuit keyword too? Name just one more efficient stratagem than this in the whole game. I bet you can't. And people try to complain about this book
I also like how Onager morphed from power-fist equivalent into dreadnought-grade weapon, and lost all drawbacks it used to have. Not even standard -1 to hit, because reasons
Being able to make only a single attack despite whatever your attack stat is does not constitute a drawback?
A single attack is how it has always worked and its always been very useful in the right situation. Some people are going to read it as you can only use the weapon for 1A and can make all the other Attack dice with the basic weapon. Can you use two CC weapons?
I also like how Onager morphed from power-fist equivalent into dreadnought-grade weapon, and lost all drawbacks it used to have. Not even standard -1 to hit, because reasons
Because a single powerfist hit for the price of a Relic is absolute crap? Even worse if you give it a -1 to hit.
Do not forget if its on the warlord it will be able to rerolls miss's.
It was useful in the right situation back when you could pop a tank with one goodish roll. The Onager like the railgun has had a poor translation to 8th. That potential kill power has become an aggressive annoyance in 8th.
I mean sure you might be able to hop in and mollywhop a unit that has 6 or less wounds left but is that really worth the effort? You might jump in and whiff your single attack. You might jump in and do 1 damage and then eat a slightly weaker powerfist that hits 4x more.
It is a rule of modern fandoms that nothing is allowed to be powerful, impactful, mysterious or important unless the most dedicated elements of the fanbase can easily identify it as a Thing They Recognize.
If it's not a chaos sword, then it HAS to be a sword of either Necron, Ctan, Old one, or Eldar manufacture. Any other alternative, including keeping it ambiguous, would be unfairly denying dedicated fans the opportunity to point their fingers and yell "I KNOW what that IS!!"
I think the trope we are dancing around here is Chekhov's Gun, if it's not essential for the story don't include it. The sword serves a purpose as an icon of the character and by keeping farsight around well past the age most tau live to. To explain why not everyone has a super shiny vampire sword they just hand wave it away by saying it's an ancient xenos weapon.
That's because the origin of the weapon is unimportant, what is important is who is using it and what it does. Imagine if they confirmed it as a necron weapon tomorrow, now we have to ask questions like are there more, can they make more, does that mean the necrons control farsight, was it a weapon of the C'Tan like void reaper? None of those questions make farsight more interesting as a character. It also ties farsight to the necrons, which may not be the way they want to go with his character.
I think the trope we are dancing around here is Chekhov's Gun, if it's not essential for the story don't include it. The sword serves a purpose as an icon of the character and by keeping farsight around well past the age most tau live to. To explain why not everyone has a super shiny vampire sword they just hand wave it away by saying it's an ancient xenos weapon.
That's because the origin of the weapon is unimportant, what is important is who is using it and what it does. Imagine if they confirmed it as a necron weapon tomorrow, now we have to ask questions like are there more, can they make more, does that mean the necrons control farsight, was it a weapon of the C'Tan like void reaper? None of those questions make farsight more interesting as a character. It also ties farsight to the necrons, which may not be the way they want to go with his character.
The thing is, the life-extension is the irrelevant part.
The whose-behind-it is the key mystery, because it's presumably the opposite of the whodunnit for the Ethereals as a whole (and presumably the entire "protect-a-primitive-society-behind-a-convenient-warp-storm-and-fast-forward-them-to-space-age).
If Ethereals appear from "nowhere" in a rainy night and all Tau (a species seemingly artificially tinkered with) cannot but obey them, except for the one break-away faction that can thanks to its leader, who has also (unknown) external assistance in the shape of the artefact, the origin of said artefact is likely a clue to who is behind that big galactic experiment, who's trying to sabotage it and why?
It's a bit like having the Space Marine Legions/Chapters (both good and evil), just on a vastly greater scale than a few hundred thousands each, but no certain knowledge of why/how/who created them, why there are different kinds and why there're loyal and rebellious ones out there.
important
Ethereals mind control people
Farsight is Immune to said mind control
Not important (at least not yet)
How ethereals mind control tau
Why is farsight immune
The story can't function without the top two, but works perfectly well if the bottom two aren't elaborated on. Maybe farsight is a one in a billion tau that could naturally resist ethereals, maybe he was demonically possessed and cast his demon out, maybe he is a shapeshifting assassin from the IoM who killed the original and is sowing dissent amongst the tau. Or maybe it could be what all the hints show and it was a combination of strong will and disillusionment with the tau empire that lead him to become resistant.
Your trying to use the handwave explanations of unimportant details to try and predict were the plot is going, and I'm saying wherever the plot goes the handwave details will follow not the other way around.
important
Ethereals mind control people
Farsight is Immune to said mind control
Except ethereals don't mind control people. There have been references to a calming aura (like pheromones) but not mental slavery. Basically, Ethereals have the ability to calm others which gives them a chance to persuade them (because they are master orators). If they could mind control, why would they need extensive propaganda campaigns?
Farsight is not immune to this feeling, the ethereals on his expedition were killed which gave him time to think without the naysaying of the ethereals. He then concluded that Ethereals were hiding things from him but that without them the tau would be dead, so he exiles himself.
P.S. I've heard that "Crisis of Faith" involves what looks like mind control, but I've also heard that the book was a fluff massacre so take that as you will.
important
Ethereals mind control people
Farsight is Immune to said mind control
Except ethereals don't mind control people. There have been references to a calming aura (like pheromones) but not mental slavery. Basically, Ethereals have the ability to calm others which gives them a chance to persuade them (because they are master orators). If they could mind control, why would they need extensive propaganda campaigns?
Farsight is not immune to this feeling, the ethereals on his expedition were killed which gave him time to think without the naysaying of the ethereals. He then concluded that Ethereals were hiding things from him but that without them the tau would be dead, so he exiles himself.
P.S. I've heard that "Crisis of Faith" involves what looks like mind control, but I've also heard that the book was a fluff massacre so take that as you will.
Ethereals aren't everywhere and if it's pheromone induced, they cannot be everywhere to insure such control goeso ut.
important
Ethereals mind control people
Farsight is Immune to said mind control
Not important (at least not yet)
How ethereals mind control tau
Why is farsight immune
The story can't function without the top two, but works perfectly well if the bottom two aren't elaborated on. Maybe farsight is a one in a billion tau that could naturally resist ethereals, maybe he was demonically possessed and cast his demon out, maybe he is a shapeshifting assassin from the IoM who killed the original and is sowing dissent amongst the tau. Or maybe it could be what all the hints show and it was a combination of strong will and disillusionment with the tau empire that lead him to become resistant.
Your trying to use the handwave explanations of unimportant details to try and predict were the plot is going, and I'm saying wherever the plot goes the handwave details will follow not the other way around.
This seems mostly backwards to me. Your "important" details are just trivia. The story could have made use of any number of contrivances to explain why the Ethereals are in charge, or even more generally how the Tau all came together with mysterious outside help, and then for Farsight to end up opposed to the new order. Now, if by "how ethereals mind control Tau", you mean "is it pheremones or are they psychic?", then, yeah, that's also trivia. But the origin of the Ethereals and the help the Tau got advancing to where they are now is clearly the major thing that you're supposed to care about when thinking about the Tau. That's the central question of their story -- how do they fit into the broader universe, who created them and why, and is that force still influencing them for its own ends? Likewise no one cares if Farsight is immune because of the sword or because of his genetics, specifically, but what you're supposed to care about is the suggestion that the origin of his immunity is significant for the origin of the Ethereals. "Oh, it was some long-dead race that made the Ethereals for their own mysterious reasons and then disappeared" would... not be great story-telling. Red herrings and irrelevant tangents are rare in fiction -- there's a reason that the bad guy turns out to be the hero's father rather than some random dude. Fictional universes tend to be very small, with lots of connections between things that at first seemed unconnected. And you basically never tease that something is significant only to reveal that it actually isn't, unless you're then immediately revealing that it only appeared significant because of some even more shocking and significant thing.
important
Ethereals mind control people
Farsight is Immune to said mind control
Not quote.
Important
- Somebody (unknown, external) both "civilization-engineered" the Tau (including high Chaos-resistance on a species-level) and added Ethereals (which didn't exist before and "evolution-control" Tau despite not being part of their history) on Day X.
- Somebody (unknown, external) created an Artefact that happens to be on the one Tau known to resist the above-mentioned Ethereal control.
Which was named after the wild mule, because of the way it worked (torsion catapult, it 'kicked like a wild mule').
Yes. But pre-dating and unrelated to the r-rated, non-Onager-specific version some people imply GW possibly wanted to imply.
I don't doubt the GW writers knew that an Onager was also kind of donkey (which in turn named a siege engine) when they used the name for a Tau siege warfare close combat artefact.
I just doubt they checked for all things smutty tagged under names of various Equidae on urban dictionary.
Irbis wrote: I like how the article says 'combine this with a Riptide Battlesuit for the best results!'. Hello, GW, you know Forge World 'balanced' crutch suits will be all this stratagem will be used on during games on competitive tables? Again, 1 mere pitiful CP to turn Ta'unar into Warlord-killer, seeing it has Battlesuit keyword too? Name just one more efficient stratagem than this in the whole game. I bet you can't. And people try to complain about this book
I also like how Onager morphed from power-fist equivalent into dreadnought-grade weapon, and lost all drawbacks it used to have. Not even standard -1 to hit, because reasons
Being able to make only a single attack despite whatever your attack stat is does not constitute a drawback?
A single attack is how it has always worked and its always been very useful in the right situation. Some people are going to read it as you can only use the weapon for 1A and can make all the other Attack dice with the basic weapon. Can you use two CC weapons?
I also like how Onager morphed from power-fist equivalent into dreadnought-grade weapon, and lost all drawbacks it used to have. Not even standard -1 to hit, because reasons
Because a single powerfist hit for the price of a Relic is absolute crap? Even worse if you give it a -1 to hit.
Do not forget if its on the warlord it will be able to rerolls miss's.
It was useful in the right situation back when you could pop a tank with one goodish roll. The Onager like the railgun has had a poor translation to 8th. That potential kill power has become an aggressive annoyance in 8th.
I mean sure you might be able to hop in and mollywhop a unit that has 6 or less wounds left but is that really worth the effort? You might jump in and whiff your single attack. You might jump in and do 1 damage and then eat a slightly weaker powerfist that hits 4x more.
It allows you to jump in and finish off that that thing which is half dead due to your main shooting weapons. It allows you to to wipe out a squad or finish that tank off in 1 round/1turn that you first shoot before charging. In a good roll it will finish off tanks that survived a fusion blast. When you look at it combined with quad fusion or quad CID its enough noticeable extra firepower to make a difference and wipe something out.
Which was named after the wild mule, because of the way it worked (torsion catapult, it 'kicked like a wild mule').
Yes. But pre-dating and unrelated to the r-rated, non-Onager-specific version some people imply GW possibly wanted to imply.
I don't doubt the GW writers knew that an Onager was also kind of donkey (which in turn named a siege engine) when they used the name for a Tau siege warfare close combat artefact.
I just doubt they checked for all things smutty tagged under names of various Equidae on urban dictionary.
But I could be wrong.
I always saw the gauntlet as something that shot forwards, either like Big O's piston cannon (still want to do that conversion) or having it extend from around the arm on a hinge system, similar to a catapult. GW is British, so they may be more aware of medieval siege equipment than someone in the Americas.
That being said, I'm betting they didn't want to pass up the pun regardless.
Irbis wrote: I like how the article says 'combine this with a Riptide Battlesuit for the best results!'. Hello, GW, you know Forge World 'balanced' crutch suits will be all this stratagem will be used on during games on competitive tables? Again, 1 mere pitiful CP to turn Ta'unar into Warlord-killer, seeing it has Battlesuit keyword too? Name just one more efficient stratagem than this in the whole game. I bet you can't. And people try to complain about this book
I also like how Onager morphed from power-fist equivalent into dreadnought-grade weapon, and lost all drawbacks it used to have. Not even standard -1 to hit, because reasons
Being able to make only a single attack despite whatever your attack stat is does not constitute a drawback?
A single attack is how it has always worked and its always been very useful in the right situation. Some people are going to read it as you can only use the weapon for 1A and can make all the other Attack dice with the basic weapon. Can you use two CC weapons?
I also like how Onager morphed from power-fist equivalent into dreadnought-grade weapon, and lost all drawbacks it used to have. Not even standard -1 to hit, because reasons
Because a single powerfist hit for the price of a Relic is absolute crap? Even worse if you give it a -1 to hit.
Do not forget if its on the warlord it will be able to rerolls miss's.
Of course they're going to read it like that. Because that's how it works. The model is going to get their other however many attacks (I'm assuming because tau it's like...two more? At probably WS3+ S5?). That's the way the weapon is worded - it can be used for only one attack, but it does not say "instead of attacking normally."
In that case it has lost all its drawbacks. Unless there has been a change commanders have 4 attacks.
Being only usable for one attack IS a drawback, by default melee weapons affect all your attacks.
I'm sorry, but if you think this relic is anything higher than "cute" tier I don't know what to say to you. A catachan company commander with a powerfist does more damage to a standard tank than a commander with an onager gauntlet, and he costs what, five times less points?
It’s always been one attack it’s not a new drawback and all the old drawbacks have gone. You still get your extra 3 basic attacks after using it. It’s not cute tier, years of using its 1 attack tells me its extremely valuable when used correctly.
Now I am do not know the Catachan company commander that well so please correct me if I am wrong. Isn't that only S8 -3AP, D3, -1 to hit. While the Onager gauntlet is S10, -4, D6 and with the warlord trait reroll miss’s instead of -1 to hit. On top of that you get 3A extra attacks at S5.
How is the Catachan company doing more damage, even with the 3A at those stats its going do less damage on average isn't it? What have I missed? It looks to me like the Onager gauntlet is far better and just as good as it has always been, if not better.
So, when I first calculated this I did have one mistake in my math (I forgot vs the powerfist commander a standard vehicle would get a 6+ armor save). The Catachan commander does 1.66 wounds on average vs a standard T7 Sv3+ tank, the Onager Commander does 1.77. If you give both the warlord trait (funnily enough, the Catachan warlord trait "Lead from the front" is exactly identical to the Farsight warlord trait) the catachan commander does 2.5 wounds on average to the onager commander's 2.37 wounds on average. And the Catachan commander can also order himself to fight twice if he wants, potentially doubling his damage.
My overall point is this: The Onager Gauntlet is not a particularly worrying/overly powerful weapon because it just takes this guy who is in no way a melee threat and makes him a very very slight melee threat. To the point where he's pretty much an equal of a 38-point model who is not particularly considered a big melee powerhouse. Start comparing him to any kind of basic Space Marine captain with a powerfist or thunder hammer, or a hive tyrant costing equivalent points, he gets blown out of the water.
The farsight-specific relic, the fusion blades, are a whole lot scarier, actually, but generally they will still probably get blown out of the water by some shooting based or support based relic.
Fusion blades seem the better relic to me, as taking a couple of fusion blasters is already a good idea. An army with Farsight and a fusion blade guy in it might not be a totally awesome close combat force, but it would be less of a pushover in combat than Tau usually are.
The approach I use with my marines is to have a primaris captain with the fist of vengeance hidden in what’s otherwise mainly a shooting army. When nasty things come close, he can charge in and do something about it. That’s probably the job I see melee commanders having too. They might not be good enough to go charging off at the enemy like a daemon primarch, but they can still help you win games.
Wall of Mirrors is an interesting stratagem, though not sure how often it’ll get used.
All it does is essentially give the Stealth Suits and extra 10” of movement when moving directly away from the enemy to hide behind the Ghostkeel. Stealth Suits already have FLY (unless this gets removed xD) so, it’s not like they need this for the purpose stated by GW in the article. I’d choose falling back normally over the stratagem pretty much every single time, especially if they have Fusion Blasters as you want to keep -inside- that 9” half range.
As for the Warlord trait – meh. Doesn’t sit with the whole “no movement at all” stance of the Sept trait, especially as Vespids will be moving (and prob therefore outside the Warlord range), though normal Kroot screening could become a thing…
Yeah, it's unfortunate. Dal'yth in concept is exactly how I'm painting up my Tau stuff - tons of different camoflage patterns with paint effects to make it look like it's projected on.
But the playstyle of that bonus is the exact opposite of what I want my Tau to feel like. I'm using every close range weapon available basically, so I'm going to need to be on the move pretty much continuously. So it looks like I'm giving that a miss.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, it's unfortunate. Dal'yth in concept is exactly how I'm painting up my Tau stuff - tons of different camoflage patterns with paint effects to make it look like it's projected on.
But the playstyle of that bonus is the exact opposite of what I want my Tau to feel like. I'm using every close range weapon available basically, so I'm going to need to be on the move pretty much continuously. So it looks like I'm giving that a miss.
This is going to sound weird, but have we seen any of the updated rules for the Tidewall stuff?
In the Index: Tidewalls have <Sept>(I seriously did not notice this until just now and you made your post; I wanted to see whether or not it specifies that the units onboard count as having moved or not). The hilarity of a casually floating gunline of Fire Warriors that then just...park at short range is something that I love.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, it's unfortunate. Dal'yth in concept is exactly how I'm painting up my Tau stuff - tons of different camoflage patterns with paint effects to make it look like it's projected on.
But the playstyle of that bonus is the exact opposite of what I want my Tau to feel like. I'm using every close range weapon available basically, so I'm going to need to be on the move pretty much continuously. So it looks like I'm giving that a miss.
It does give you benefits to your Ghostkeels and Stealth Suits though, as you're "forward lines" - while your firebase castle at the back gets a nice bonus.
Whether that bonus outweighs +6" range though, will depend on how much cover/ruins you tend to play with on your tables.
taemu_touhi wrote: The Dal'yth warlord trait is just bad... Like real bad.
Depends. It's not exactly fluffy, but this codex does quite a lot to encourage many units to stay static.
Vespids won't be static though, and Kroot will only exist as a meat shield on the occasions you suddenly decide you no longer like Fire Warriors.
Vespids won't be static, but this does allow for them to be part of an overwatch conga line--something they cannot currently do as they do not possess "For the Greater Good".
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, it's unfortunate. Dal'yth in concept is exactly how I'm painting up my Tau stuff - tons of different camoflage patterns with paint effects to make it look like it's projected on.
But the playstyle of that bonus is the exact opposite of what I want my Tau to feel like. I'm using every close range weapon available basically, so I'm going to need to be on the move pretty much continuously. So it looks like I'm giving that a miss.
This is going to sound weird, but have we seen any of the updated rules for the Tidewall stuff?
In the Index: Tidewalls have <Sept>(I seriously did not notice this until just now and you made your post; I wanted to see whether or not it specifies that the units onboard count as having moved or not). The hilarity of a casually floating gunline of 2+ Fire Warriors is something that I love.
Works the same as open topped transports doesn't it? Meaning they will still suffer shooting penalties for moving and shooting heavy weapons - which in turn suggests they are considered to be moving... That and the units inside wouldn't be target-able anyway, so, wouldn't need to benefit from the rule.
taemu_touhi wrote: The Dal'yth warlord trait is just bad... Like real bad.
Depends. It's not exactly fluffy, but this codex does quite a lot to encourage many units to stay static.
Vespids won't be static though, and Kroot will only exist as a meat shield on the occasions you suddenly decide you no longer like Fire Warriors.
Vespids won't be static, but this does allow for them to be part of an overwatch conga line--something they cannot currently do as they do not possess "For the Greater Good".
I suppose, but, i still don't see Vespids at all, and i'd personally imagine seeing them in a "sweeping" role around the battlefield, not hanging around a castle and Warlord several "s behind the screens.
Works the same as open topped transports doesn't it? Meaning they will still suffer shooting penalties for moving and shooting heavy weapons - which in turn suggests they are considered to be moving... That and the units inside wouldn't be target-able anyway, so, wouldn't need to benefit from the rule.
Don't you go raining on my vision of the Fun Police!
That's why I was asking specifically if we'd heard anything about updated rules for it; since the rules as they stand now would be pretty "eh".
Vespids won't be static, but this does allow for them to be part of an overwatch conga line--something they cannot currently do as they do not possess "For the Greater Good".
These things can be mutually exclusive if you want them to be. The Vespids can be out doing work and have overwatch and the rest of the army can be standing still getting an armor bonus.
Well fire warriors dropped a point and they just suggested the alien auxiliaries went down to make up for not having a sept trait. So that is some pretty cheap chaff if kroot end up going down a point as well. Probably still better off with fire warriors though.
Vespids won't be static, but this does allow for them to be part of an overwatch conga line--something they cannot currently do as they do not possess "For the Greater Good".
These things can be mutually exclusive if you want them to be. The Vespids can be out doing work and have overwatch and the rest of the army can be standing still getting an armor bonus.
Oh, i fully 100% accept that. I just fail to see how it benefits things like Vespids more than the other traits do. It's just, when i see something singled out as a beneficiary of fixed rules, i instantly look for synergy, and, it feels like, once again, gw has missed the mark on it. (btw this is from a guy with a T'au curiosity, as opposed to a hardcore T'au player - so, pinch of salt and all.)
So, am I reading this wrong or is it true that Dal’yth Sept units do not get a cover save if the opponent starts the game, because they only get a cover save for a subsequent turn after standing still for their game turn?
Seems like a trash tier trait, once again, unless I’m mistaken, in which case it’ll get a solid bump to ’mediocre’.
taemu_touhi wrote: The Dal'yth warlord trait is just bad... Like real bad.
+1 armor on a static gunline army? Why is that bad?
That's the Sept trait, not warlord trait. The warlord trait wants you to clump your kroot with your commander to get "For the Greater Good", but then you might as well just bring firewarriors. Unless there a significant changes to kroot, which I assume not since it should have appeared in this preview.
The sept trait I admit can be useful, but any decent table should have enough area terrain to work with. And for a static gunline, I'm sure that Bork’an will be the go to sept.
Therion wrote: So, am I reading this wrong or is it true that Dal’yth Sept units do not get a cover save if the opponent starts the game, because they only get a cover save if they stand still for an actual game turn?
It's something that will probably need a FAQ; but seeing as how you cannot have a turn OR Movement phase before the game starts--I'd say that you would get your cover save if deployed out in the open.
Seems like a trash tier trait, once again, unless I’m mistaken, in which case it’ll get a solid bump to ’mediocre’.
Honestly, it seems like pretty much everything "seems like a trash tier trait" to you unless it's a -1 to hit.
Therion wrote: So, am I reading this wrong or is it true that Dal’yth Sept units do not get a cover save if the opponent starts the game, because they only get a cover save if they stand still for an actual game turn?
Seems like a trash tier trait, once again, unless I’m mistaken, in which case it’ll get a solid bump to ’mediocre’.
Correct, if you are going second, the trait is useless. It's so trash, I doubt I'd even give it another look.
Therion wrote: So, am I reading this wrong or is it true that Dal’yth Sept units do not get a cover save if the opponent starts the game, because they only get a cover save if they stand still for an actual game turn?
It's something that will probably need a FAQ; but seeing as how you cannot have a turn OR Movement phase before the game starts--I'd say that you would get your cover save if deployed out in the open.
Seems like a trash tier trait, once again, unless I’m mistaken, in which case it’ll get a solid bump to ’mediocre’.
Honestly, it seems like pretty much everything "seems like a trash tier trait" to you unless it's a -1 to hit.
It doesn’t need a FAQ as it’s quite clear (no save against enemy turn 1a alpha strike). I was just asking someone to re-check in case something had gone wrong with my eyesight after reading too many trash tier Tau leaks.
Therion wrote: So, am I reading this wrong or is it true that Dal’yth Sept units do not get a cover save if the opponent starts the game, because they only get a cover save for a subsequent turn after standing still for their game turn?
Seems like a trash tier trait, once again, unless I’m mistaken, in which case it’ll get a solid bump to ’mediocre’.
You are not.
It really is a very bad trait.
And its paired with a bad warlord trait.
Unless they stratagem is outright broken-nobody will ever play this sept.
As for the "wall of mirrors" stratagem
What's even the point?
Stealths has fly, they can leave combat if they want to anyway-and it depends on your positioning last turn to even be used.
In what scenario do you even bother with this?
Wall of mirrors could be used for an alpha strike: Daisy chain your stealth suits to be in range of a Ghostkeel but reaching as far towards the enemy as possible, use stratagem, place beacon, manta strike in your units.
After that it's probably worthless because of fly being a thing, yes. Might have some niche uses for a long-stretch redeploy.
the_scotsman wrote: So, when I first calculated this I did have one mistake in my math (I forgot vs the powerfist commander a standard vehicle would get a 6+ armor save). The Catachan commander does 1.66 wounds on average vs a standard T7 Sv3+ tank, the Onager Commander does 1.77. If you give both the warlord trait (funnily enough, the Catachan warlord trait "Lead from the front" is exactly identical to the Farsight warlord trait) the catachan commander does 2.5 wounds on average to the onager commander's 2.37 wounds on average. And the Catachan commander can also order himself to fight twice if he wants, potentially doubling his damage.
My overall point is this: The Onager Gauntlet is not a particularly worrying/overly powerful weapon because it just takes this guy who is in no way a melee threat and makes him a very very slight melee threat. To the point where he's pretty much an equal of a 38-point model who is not particularly considered a big melee powerhouse. Start comparing him to any kind of basic Space Marine captain with a powerfist or thunder hammer, or a hive tyrant costing equivalent points, he gets blown out of the water.
The farsight-specific relic, the fusion blades, are a whole lot scarier, actually, but generally they will still probably get blown out of the water by some shooting based or support based relic.
The difference is you are doing that Onager Gauntlet after shooting quad weapon fire and the Onager Gauntlet is to finish off if the target survives. The Onager Gauntlet is enough to push you over the edge and kill that tank in 1 round. Something the Catachan commander is not going to be doing.
What's even the point?
Stealths has fly, they can leave combat if they want to anyway-and it depends on your positioning last turn to even be used.
In what scenario do you even bother with this?
I can see it being used as a bit of a response to weird deployment or attempts to bait poor deployment if you go first.
Depending on GW rules it, you could also use this as a way to move them into better positions for deploying Homing Beacons or for deploying a Homing Beacon and moving them away from it or stuff like that.
taemu_touhi wrote: The Dal'yth warlord trait is just bad... Like real bad.
+1 armor on a static gunline army? Why is that bad?
That's the Sept trait, not warlord trait. The warlord trait wants you to clump your kroot with your commander to get "For the Greater Good", but then you might as well just bring firewarriors. Unless there a significant changes to kroot, which I assume not since it should have appeared in this preview.
The sept trait I admit can be useful, but any decent table should have enough area terrain to work with. And for a static gunline, I'm sure that Bork’an will be the go to sept.
Yea, sorry, misread your post. I mean Krootox guns are not terrible and Carnivores at 5 points are a Guardman with a 5+ save and a stronger gun, but with no orders.
taemu_touhi wrote: The Dal'yth warlord trait is just bad... Like real bad.
+1 armor on a static gunline army? Why is that bad?
That's the Sept trait, not warlord trait. The warlord trait wants you to clump your kroot with your commander to get "For the Greater Good", but then you might as well just bring firewarriors. Unless there a significant changes to kroot, which I assume not since it should have appeared in this preview.
The sept trait I admit can be useful, but any decent table should have enough area terrain to work with. And for a static gunline, I'm sure that Bork’an will be the go to sept.
Yea, sorry, misread your post. I mean Krootox guns are not terrible and Carnivores at 5 points are a Guardman with a 5+ save and a stronger gun, but with no orders.
taemu_touhi wrote: The Dal'yth warlord trait is just bad... Like real bad.
+1 armor on a static gunline army? Why is that bad?
That's the Sept trait, not warlord trait. The warlord trait wants you to clump your kroot with your commander to get "For the Greater Good", but then you might as well just bring firewarriors. Unless there a significant changes to kroot, which I assume not since it should have appeared in this preview.
The sept trait I admit can be useful, but any decent table should have enough area terrain to work with. And for a static gunline, I'm sure that Bork’an will be the go to sept.
Kroot are better at CC than fire warriors.
So if a unit of fire warriors gets charged, you can overwatch with the kroot and then charge in your turn while the fire warriors retreat.
That's my view of it.
I'm not impressed with this reveal at all. At least the Farsight ones were food for thought and have some interesting options. Aside from Ghostkeels getting buffed, this one just sucks. That's a terrible Sept trait, though I did chuckle a bit at the idea of the Stormsurge detachment. That might actually work if they don't cost 800 points each anymore, but is it worth giving up 6" of range on that many weapons? Eh...tough call. Overall, I like my Tau mobile, so this one definitely is not for me. Also, the warlord trait is beyond awful. Borkan or bust, baby!
I have to agree. Tau should be mobile. This is also a lot more restricted than the tyranids jormungdr trait. Granted we have a lot if flying units so that trait would also be bad for us but the Stark difference between the two speaks volumes imo.
FirePainter wrote: I have to agree. Tau should be mobile. This is also a lot more restricted than the tyranids jormungdr trait. Granted we have a lot if flying units so that trait would also be bad for us but the Stark difference between the two speaks volumes imo.
What's even the point?
Stealths has fly, they can leave combat if they want to anyway-and it depends on your positioning last turn to even be used.
In what scenario do you even bother with this?
I can see only one real use, it's a fairly long range re-positioning. You go from 6" to one side of the Ghost to 12" on the other side, moving the unit 18" plus the width of the base of the Ghostkeel. I'm not sure if you can then move the Stealth Suits even further, but if you can, that's something like a 30" potential redeployment.
Situational and highly dependent on where enemy units are.
I think some units prevent you from falling back, so this would let you get away anyways. Not always going to be used, but it's a nice tool to have in the toolbox if needed Other than that, yeah, it'll make Stealsuits a bit more elusive and open up options for slingshoting a homing beacon closer to where you want it.
Therion wrote: So, am I reading this wrong or is it true that Dal’yth Sept units do not get a cover save if the opponent starts the game, because they only get a cover save for a subsequent turn after standing still for their game turn?
Seems like a trash tier trait, once again, unless I’m mistaken, in which case it’ll get a solid bump to ’mediocre’.
You are not.
It really is a very bad trait.
And its paired with a bad warlord trait.
Unless they stratagem is outright broken-nobody will ever play this sept.
As for the "wall of mirrors" stratagem
What's even the point?
Stealths has fly, they can leave combat if they want to anyway-and it depends on your positioning last turn to even be used.
In what scenario do you even bother with this?
Correct me if I am wrong but don't stealth suits only move 8"? Seems like a 12" redeploy with the ability to charge and tie something else up could come in handy. It isn't amazing but I know I have been bogged down before and wished I had more movement to get away even with fly. I mean you can also use it to redeploy from behind a ghostkeel much farther forward then your move may normally take you which again could be nice for getting your guns in range as well as grabbing objectives. Maybe I missread it though.
Yeah wall of mirrors could actually be good - just not for the reasons that the people who wrote the article think. Catapulting stealths around the place is a decent way to tie up enemy tanks in cc, and it might work well with homing beacons if homing beacons still work.
Of course you should never give stealth suits or ghostkeels a trait that only works if they stand still. That would be absurd, especially if you plan on using a stratagem that moves them a really long way.
If they’d previewed wall of mirrors in the farsight update, selling it as a way to get your guys up close to things, to would have made rather more sense.
The always being in cover thing is decent for tanks (especially sky rays - if they are at all usable now), riptides and stormsurges. It’s not bad for infantry. It’s just bad for the units that GW thinks it’s good for.
MasterSlowPoke wrote: Wall of Mirrors is also at the start of the movement phase, the stealth team can still move normally afterwards as far as I can tell..
Good call, see no reason why not. That actually just made the ability extremely useful IMO. Thats potential for a TON of ground cleared. Also getting melta guns not only into range from a hidden position, but into 2d6 range would help a lot with AT. This edition I think stealth suits are looking much better then normal crisis suits at least to me, which is a nice change.
Would the wall of mirrors stratagem count as a move for the purposes of that faction trait?
If not, could be a way to clear ground and get a save bonus.
If they’d previewed wall of mirrors in the farsight update, selling it as a way to get your guys up close to things, to would have made rather more sense.
.
They didn't give the farsight strategem in their preview so I'm guessing some kind of buff after deepstriking for crisis suits
Seems like the start of 8th was "Hey cool, my favorite Legion/regiment/craftworld/hive fleet has actual rules to use now!" to "Okay, what broken combo of detachments benefits can I cherry pick."
Nightlord1987 wrote: Seems like the start of 8th was "Hey cool, my favorite Legion/regiment/craftworld/hive fleet has actual rules to use now!" to "Okay, what broken combo of detachments benefits can I cherry pick."
TBF, it seems to be the case that certain factions have playerbases who are more attached to the "lore subfactions" than others.
Eldar, Orks, and Space Marines' playerbases tend to be the ones in my experience who really like to go for the subfaction schemes/lore, while I don't think I've ever met a dedicated "Kabal of the whatever pointy thing" Dark Eldar player or a Vior-la sept Tau player. Mostly, they seem to just go for a scheme. Guard is a little different because you do get a lot of people going for the unique models to create that specific regiment, but if you've got someone playing with cadians they'll often be a custom scheme and they don't consider their dudes to be Cadian.
It all varies, of course, but I'd say you've got the following setup:
1) Players of factions that are already official sub-factions seem much more likely to follow the default paint scheme (Grey Knights, Space Wolves, Thousand Sons, Blood Angels, etc)
2) Older main faction players seem much more likely to pick a canon subfaction (Space Marines, Chaos Marines, Eldar, Orks)
3) Newer/more newly revamped faction players seem more likely to go for a custom color scheme (Tau, Dark Eldar, Necrons)
its also worth noting that of course nobody's got an existing army that adheres to many of these septs/hive fleets, because in both nid and tau codexes GW is releasing a bunch of new subfactions that had never been mentioned before or fleshed out. Borkan is totally new, so is the one that was previewed today, and I thought like Hydra and Jormungandr were new in the nid book.
MasterSlowPoke wrote: Wall of Mirrors is also at the start of the movement phase, the stealth team can still move normally afterwards as far as I can tell..
Good call, see no reason why not. That actually just made the ability extremely useful IMO. Thats potential for a TON of ground cleared. Also getting melta guns not only into range from a hidden position, but into 2d6 range would help a lot with AT. This edition I think stealth suits are looking much better then normal crisis suits at least to me, which is a nice change.
It doesn't matter that it's the start of the movement phase. The Reinforcements rules are explicit that units arriving as reinforcements "cannot move or Advance further during the turn they arrive". And one of the FAQs is clear that anything that removes you from the battlefield and sets you back up on it is using the Reinforcements rules. That said, you can get a lot of distance out of the stratagem still because the unit only has to be "within" 12" of the Ghostkeel, not "entirely within".
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Nightlord1987 wrote: Seems like the start of 8th was "Hey cool, my favorite Legion/regiment/craftworld/hive fleet has actual rules to use now!" to "Okay, what broken combo of detachments benefits can I cherry pick."
Well, yeah. It's not like any of the faction traits are so distinctive of a single subfaction that it's going to seem strange using one subfaction's rules (or a mix of subfactions' rules) while thinking of your army as really representing some other subfaction entirely. Like, it's not somehow unfluffy to set up a bunch of Ultramarines and say that you're using the Salamanders' rules for them. They seem very much designed to let you pick and choose whatever you think best suits your army, unless you're using special characters.
the_scotsman wrote: Borkan is totally new, so is the one that was previewed today, and I thought like Hydra and Jormungandr were new in the nid book.
Bork'an and Da'lyth have been around since at least the 4th edition Tau codex as part of the original 8 Sept worlds or "First Phase Colonies" This isn't anything new.
Nightlord1987 wrote: Seems like the start of 8th was "Hey cool, my favorite Legion/regiment/craftworld/hive fleet has actual rules to use now!" to "Okay, what broken combo of detachments benefits can I cherry pick."
True. To be fair, this is because we never had to think about it before. We were Farsight or not, but we weren’t borkan or dalyth. And there was never (and still isn’t?) a colour scheme for each sept, because Tau actually use camo suitable for their missions.
So we’ve kind of got nothing to go on but the game effects. Or not much anyway. And in my case I’m a dead-eyed WAAC tournament junkie, so considerations outside of in-game bonuses are irrelevant to me.
My Tau army has been collecting dust for a long while (how long has it been since Kroot rifles gave +1 attack?). It was extremely stealth-suit heavy (Shadowsun and 3 units of 6 stealth suits) with kroot as the mass of bodies, backed up by Broadsides for fire support.
Lots of infiltration, lots of added cover bonuses. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they will work again with this codex.
I have no I'll feelings about it either way. Just find it funny that Space Marine players have been ostracized for years when they switch Chapter Tactics despite a signature Color scheme, but as soon as the AM codex dropped all of a sudden Cadians everywhere could be from any Regiment.
Currently my Night Lords are being played with Alpha Legion traits because I like stealthy Night Lords far better than scary ones.
Nightlord1987 wrote: I have no I'll feelings about it either way. Just find it funny that Space Marine players have been ostracized for years when they switch Chapter Tactics despite a signature Color scheme, but as soon as the AM codex dropped all of a sudden Cadians everywhere could be from any Regiment.
A big part of it is the fact that Marines can be any Marines, for the most part. They're also pretty damn easy to acquire thanks to having bulked up starter sets all the time.
Now, where do I get plastic Vostroyan, Steel Legion, or Mordians from?
Nightlord1987 wrote: I have no I'll feelings about it either way. Just find it funny that Space Marine players have been ostracized for years when they switch Chapter Tactics despite a signature Color scheme, but as soon as the AM codex dropped all of a sudden Cadians everywhere could be from any Regiment.
Currently my Night Lords are being played with Alpha Legion traits because I like stealthy Night Lords far better than scary ones.
It seems perfectly normal for the Alpha Legion to masquerade as Night Lords. It is literally their thing.
Nightlord1987 wrote: I have no I'll feelings about it either way. Just find it funny that Space Marine players have been ostracized for years when they switch Chapter Tactics despite a signature Color scheme, but as soon as the AM codex dropped all of a sudden Cadians everywhere could be from any Regiment.
A big part of it is the fact that Marines can be any Marines, for the most part. They're also pretty damn easy to acquire thanks to having bulked up starter sets all the time.
Now, where do I get plastic Vostroyan, Steel Legion, or Mordians from?
Same warehouse as Plastic Sisters, Pariahs and Warhammer Fantasy 9th ed, obviously. I miss having more than 2 regiments available.
Nightlord1987 wrote: I have no I'll feelings about it either way. Just find it funny that Space Marine players have been ostracized for years when they switch Chapter Tactics despite a signature Color scheme, but as soon as the AM codex dropped all of a sudden Cadians everywhere could be from any Regiment.
A big part of it is the fact that Marines can be any Marines, for the most part. They're also pretty damn easy to acquire thanks to having bulked up starter sets all the time.
Now, where do I get plastic Vostroyan, Steel Legion, or Mordians from?
Same warehouse as Plastic Sisters, Pariahs and Warhammer Fantasy 9th ed, obviously.
I miss having more than 2 regiments available.
Pariahs don't exist as units anymore and haven't been available for at least three editions now.
Age of Sigmar exists. Deal with it.
Also, there are still "more than 2 regiments available"...just only two(really one, since Catachans are Direct Only) in plastic.
MasterSlowPoke wrote: Wall of Mirrors is also at the start of the movement phase, the stealth team can still move normally afterwards as far as I can tell..
Good call, see no reason why not. That actually just made the ability extremely useful IMO. Thats potential for a TON of ground cleared. Also getting melta guns not only into range from a hidden position, but into 2d6 range would help a lot with AT. This edition I think stealth suits are looking much better then normal crisis suits at least to me, which is a nice change.
It doesn't matter that it's the start of the movement phase. The Reinforcements rules are explicit that units arriving as reinforcements "cannot move or Advance further during the turn they arrive". And one of the FAQs is clear that anything that removes you from the battlefield and sets you back up on it is using the Reinforcements rules. That said, you can get a lot of distance out of the stratagem still because the unit only has to be "within" 12" of the Ghostkeel, not "entirely within".
Except nowhere in the stratagem does it refer to it as reinforcements. Further more, your not creating a new unit, nor are they arriving from reserves. Not really following you there. Perhaps after the FAQ it will change but I still see no reason why you can't move them as it stands.
Way too much to break down myself, I'll leave that to the rest of you, but one thing I saw...
We lost Stimulant Injectors as Support Systems. It is now a 1 CP Strategy that only affects the largest of battlesuits (the ones with multiple profiles), allowing it to operate at the highest level (so for 1 turn, you could boost your Riptide back up to 4+ base). No word on if Stormsurges got the Battlesuit keyword, so, uh... that's interesting.
Dalyth's Stratagem gives JSJ to any one unit in your army. So the army whose tenet focuses on non-movement has a stratagem that involves movement. Heh.
We got an Orbital Ion Beam for everyone and a Sa'cea Orbital Markerlight Beam. Nifty.
2CP for the +1 to hit Farsight stratagem. Unfortunate, since it basically means its only going to be worth it when you bring a ton of Crisis Suits... which didn't drop in points at all (unless you were taking lots of BCs).
We have another form of Deepstrike-within-9" in the form of the Recon Drone Stratagem. That'll go over real well, I'm sure. Good thing we're utterly useless at melee, but Farsight Enclaves might enjoy more ways to deepstrike into +1-to-wound land.
Uplinked marker light seems a no brainer, like 1 cp a turn every turn. Command and control node is amazing, anything that lets you reroll wounds makes mid strength weapons great. Hot blooded is great, endless cacophony for tau infantry of the vior'la sept.
Outside of those no real standouts, a lot of fun ways to poke units trying to get into CC, and punish units that kill your units in CC. 12 warlord traits in neat, and something I hope they carry forward.
Dandelion wrote: TACTICAL TURRETS ARE FREE?! I just shaved 100 pts off my list.
That's a big one. A funny one I saw is pulse pistols now cost a point.
Other than that not as money points changes as I was hoping for. Most things are the same as index. Rail rifles for Pathfinders are still not worth it especially with the buff to ion.
Dandelion wrote: TACTICAL TURRETS ARE FREE?! I just shaved 100 pts off my list.
That's a big one. A funny one I saw is pulse pistols now cost a point.
Other than that not as money points changes as I was hoping for. Most things are the same as index. Rail rifles for Pathfinders are still not worth it especially with the buff to ion.
Excluding wargear; you still have to pay for sms/missile pod.
Dandelion wrote: TACTICAL TURRETS ARE FREE?! I just shaved 100 pts off my list.
That's a big one. A funny one I saw is pulse pistols now cost a point.
Other than that not as money points changes as I was hoping for. Most things are the same as index. Rail rifles for Pathfinders are still not worth it especially with the buff to ion.
Excluding wargear; you still have to pay for sms/missile pod.
Way too much to break down myself, I'll leave that to the rest of you, but one thing I saw...
We lost Stimulant Injectors as Support Systems. It is now a 1 CP Strategy that only affects the largest of battlesuits (the ones with multiple profiles), allowing it to operate at the highest level (so for 1 turn, you could boost your Riptide back up to 4+ base). No word on if Stormsurges got the Battlesuit keyword, so, uh... that's interesting.
Dalyth's Stratagem gives JSJ to any one unit in your army. So the army whose tenet focuses on non-movement has a stratagem that involves movement. Heh.
We got an Orbital Ion Beam for everyone and a Sa'cea Orbital Markerlight Beam. Nifty.
2CP for the +1 to hit Farsight stratagem. Unfortunate, since it basically means its only going to be worth it when you bring a ton of Crisis Suits... which didn't drop in points at all (unless you were taking lots of BCs).
We have another form of Deepstrike-within-9" in the form of the Recon Drone Stratagem. That'll go over real well, I'm sure. Good thing we're utterly useless at melee, but Farsight Enclaves might enjoy more ways to deepstrike into +1-to-wound land.
Dalyth's Stratagem gives JSJ to any one unit in your army. So the army whose tenet focuses on non-movement has a stratagem that involves movement. Heh.
this isn't nesscarily a bad thing as it can open up options and varity in the army leading to some intreasting synergies. a good example of this is the raven guard chapter tactics and stratigium. that gives -1 to attack them at long ranges, but their stratigium allows them to drop a unit in close. this creates some pretty awesome synergy. And there are other tactic/stratigiums that work in similer ways. we'll have to see if this ends up working nicely.
Nightlord1987 wrote: Seems like the start of 8th was "Hey cool, my favorite Legion/regiment/craftworld/hive fleet has actual rules to use now!" to "Okay, what broken combo of detachments benefits can I cherry pick."
That's been the case ever since GW introduced snowflake rules like chapter traits which often even don't lead to fluffy armies. Case in point biker swarms of white scars.
Nightlord1987 wrote: Seems like the start of 8th was "Hey cool, my favorite Legion/regiment/craftworld/hive fleet has actual rules to use now!" to "Okay, what broken combo of detachments benefits can I cherry pick."
That's been the case ever since GW introduced snowflake rules like chapter traits which often even don't lead to fluffy armies. Case in point biker swarms of white scars.
True but GW's been trying to find an answer to the ye old question of "how to encourage fluffy" for awhile. the "Best" answer was proably formations. giving a fluffy grouping of units special rules, No one ever complained the Gladius was unfluffy. (unbalanced, sure, unfluffy no)
MasterSlowPoke wrote: Wall of Mirrors is also at the start of the movement phase, the stealth team can still move normally afterwards as far as I can tell..
Good call, see no reason why not. That actually just made the ability extremely useful IMO. Thats potential for a TON of ground cleared. Also getting melta guns not only into range from a hidden position, but into 2d6 range would help a lot with AT. This edition I think stealth suits are looking much better then normal crisis suits at least to me, which is a nice change.
It doesn't matter that it's the start of the movement phase. The Reinforcements rules are explicit that units arriving as reinforcements "cannot move or Advance further during the turn they arrive". And one of the FAQs is clear that anything that removes you from the battlefield and sets you back up on it is using the Reinforcements rules. That said, you can get a lot of distance out of the stratagem still because the unit only has to be "within" 12" of the Ghostkeel, not "entirely within".
Except nowhere in the stratagem does it refer to it as reinforcements. Further more, your not creating a new unit, nor are they arriving from reserves. Not really following you there. Perhaps after the FAQ it will change but I still see no reason why you can't move them as it stands.
No, not reinforcements as in things that use reinforcement points, but reinforcements as in the Reinforcements rules on p177 of the BRB. The Deep Strike rules, basically -- stuff that deep strikes can't move after it comes in. The BRBFAQ (p4) is explicit that anything that is removed from the battlefield and then set up again (as with the Teleport Homer or Gate of Infinity abilities) should be treated as reinforcements in this way. That it happens at the start of the movement phase is actually a disadvantage more often than not -- the effect of it is that you have to position your Ghostkeel and Stealth Suits a turn in advance (though you could then move the Ghostkeel afterwards).
dapperbandit wrote: I really like the sound of some of those Relics. The Seismic Destabiliser will be great against enemy shooting armies that are taking cover.
That strategem where you roll a D6 for every model in a unit that charges and dish out mortal wounds on a 6 will also be useful against horde armies
The stratagem only works on models that end within 3" of your unit, so it won't actually catch all that many of a horde unit.
Its most effective against expensive, hard-hitting single wound enemies like berzerkers or death company.
The seismic though, is one of the two auto-include relics in my book (the other being the PEN)
The question is, who do you GIVE it?
Nilok wrote: Dal'yth; Dynamic Mirror Field on a Ghostkeel, constant -2 to hit outside of 6".
"You can't hit me, I'm a ghost! Ooooo!"
I found the one reason to run a Dal'yth detachment.
Ghostkeel is not a characther, he can't take it.
So nope, there isn't a reason to take Dal'yth XD
Unless you REALLY want to play R'myr because you love him l I guess.
I'm not up on my Tau fluff, but are the enclaves still pretty low tech compared to the rest of the empire?
I'm thinking up a Farsight Enclaves army with a 12"-5" sweet spot and while the XV9 suits are perfect fluff wise, they are also experimental so I don't know that the FE would have them.
I actually really like what I see here so far. Nothing totally broken and the things that I think are probably a little OTT can be avoided easily enough without forcing yourself to auto-lose. I like it!
godswildcard wrote: I'm not up on my Tau fluff, but are the enclaves still pretty low tech compared to the rest of the empire?
I'm thinking up a Farsight Enclaves army with a 12"-5" sweet spot and while the XV9 suits are perfect fluff wise, they are also experimental so I don't know that the FE would have them.
I actually really like what I see here so far. Nothing totally broken and the things that I think are probably a little OTT can be avoided easily enough without forcing yourself to auto-lose. I like it!
They do have sympathisers in other Septs so they get some tech and /or info on how to make it.
They shouldn't have Etheriels but I donlt know if that made into the rules?
BoomWolf wrote: The seismic though, is one of the two auto-include relics in my book (the other being the PEN)
The question is, who do you GIVE it?
I'd give the PEN to a fireblade to reroll a markerlight or similar and the Seisemic thing to a Coldstar (if it can take 2 fusions).
The Coldstar stands next to a broadside team, calls a Kauyon, uses the CNC node on the broadsides, then next turn it can jump off to be useful with the fusions and siesemic in the opponents back field.
I think the Dynamic Mirror Field is quite situational. Backfield characters are protected by being characters and the Neuroweb jammer does almost the same thing for 1CP. However, it works nicely with the vectored escape thrust strat on a QFC.
Kanluwen wrote: I really like that Sa'cea Sept Stratagem...Commander that seeds the battlefield with Markerlights! FREE MARKERLIGHT COUNTERS!
Yea and it is easily tossed into any list using a supreme command detachment fireblade or commander. Just pick an enemy captain and laugh as you get 4-5 free marker tokens per turn just for looking at them. If it's a fire blade you are adding another on a 2+
Jidmah wrote: A fluffy game does not automatically make for a fun game.
Therefore balance is more important than fluff.
Too bad GW has forgotten that with competent developers you can do both. "balance over fluff" is excuse of an lazy incompetent developer.
Find me another game with half as many options and entries that plays with a quarter the models that is perfectly balanced. News flash, 40k is way to abstract to ever be balanced to the degree your expecting, moreover, you keep knocking their design team yet you spend your money on their game. Remind me who is incompetent again.
MasterSlowPoke wrote: Wall of Mirrors is also at the start of the movement phase, the stealth team can still move normally afterwards as far as I can tell..
Good call, see no reason why not. That actually just made the ability extremely useful IMO. Thats potential for a TON of ground cleared. Also getting melta guns not only into range from a hidden position, but into 2d6 range would help a lot with AT. This edition I think stealth suits are looking much better then normal crisis suits at least to me, which is a nice change.
It doesn't matter that it's the start of the movement phase. The Reinforcements rules are explicit that units arriving as reinforcements "cannot move or Advance further during the turn they arrive". And one of the FAQs is clear that anything that removes you from the battlefield and sets you back up on it is using the Reinforcements rules. That said, you can get a lot of distance out of the stratagem still because the unit only has to be "within" 12" of the Ghostkeel, not "entirely within".
Except nowhere in the stratagem does it refer to it as reinforcements. Further more, your not creating a new unit, nor are they arriving from reserves. Not really following you there. Perhaps after the FAQ it will change but I still see no reason why you can't move them as it stands.
No, not reinforcements as in things that use reinforcement points, but reinforcements as in the Reinforcements rules on p177 of the BRB. The Deep Strike rules, basically -- stuff that deep strikes can't move after it comes in. The BRBFAQ (p4) is explicit that anything that is removed from the battlefield and then set up again (as with the Teleport Homer or Gate of Infinity abilities) should be treated as reinforcements in this way. That it happens at the start of the movement phase is actually a disadvantage more often than not -- the effect of it is that you have to position your Ghostkeel and Stealth Suits a turn in advance (though you could then move the Ghostkeel afterwards).
Missed that FAQ, thanks for citing the relevant source. I still think it has uses, it just is not an auto use now.
dapperbandit wrote: I really like the sound of some of those Relics. The Seismic Destabiliser will be great against enemy shooting armies that are taking cover.
That strategem where you roll a D6 for every model in a unit that charges and dish out mortal wounds on a 6 will also be useful against horde armies
The stratagem only works on models that end within 3" of your unit, so it won't actually catch all that many of a horde unit.
Its most effective against expensive, hard-hitting single wound enemies like berzerkers or death company.
3" from 50mm rounds. Within and not fully within. You will catch an entire horde with this. Especially if you're not base to base.
A 198mm (50mm + 72mm to the front and 72mm to the back) circle is nearly 30,000 mm^2. The 50mm base is about 2,000 of that. That leaves us with 28,000 of which we'll take 1/3 assuming the models are in the front only or 9,300. A 32mm base is roughly 800. Considering gaps that's 9 bases FULLY within that zone.
Add flamers for extra chuckles and the most unchargeable unit in the game.
We saw most of this stuff with last night's leaks, but still.
Good to see that Stealth Suits are still considered Sept Infantry units as they suggest using "Hot Blooded" with them.
Damn. Writing up the Tau list I'm going to be building towards, all the points changes account for an additional 227 points in my 2k list. In case nobody's written it up yet, here are the changes I saw (didnt include a couple we saw already in the gw previews)
Broadside -20
Kroot -1
Fire Warriors -1
DS8 turret -20 (body is now free)
Piranha -7
Devilfish -21
Riptide -24
Skyray -19
Hammerhead -17
Razorshark/Sun Shark -10
Aunshi -8
Aunva +20 (Space pope 2 op)
Airbursting Projector -2
Burst Cannon -2
Cluster Rockets -36
Fusion Collider -9
Heavy Burst Cannon -20
Heavy Rail Rifle -28
HYMP -16
Ion Accelerator -47
Ion Cannon -20
Gun Drone +4 pts
Pulse Pistol +1 (Someone in playtesting had a fire warrior squad kill their melee unit in close combat with this I guess)
Rail Rifle -5
SMS -5
Supremacy Railgun -19
Advanced Targeting System +10 on big suits
ATS +4 on small stuff
Counterfire +5
Iridium Suit new 15pts
EWO +2 on big stuff
-3 on everything else
Ghostkeels now get 8pt shield gens instead of 40pts
Ion Cannon now gets D6 shots on overcharge
Ion Rifle now does 2 damage on overcharge
Longshot Pulse Rifle now does the mortal wound on a 6 sniper thing
Pulse Blastcannon +1D on medium and long profile
Pulse Driver CAnnon always D6 shots
Seeker MIssiles now S8 AP-2 Dd6 (no change to destroyer missiles)
Let me just mention that previously the weapons were free and the body cost points, whereas now the body is free and the weapons cost points. So the DS8 w/ SMS is -5 compared to the Index while the DS8 w/ MP is +4 compared to the Index.
alextroy wrote: Simple. Not many units have the option for HYMPs. The cost is therefore baked into the base unit (Broadside Battlesuit I believe).
Is it though? A broadside is now 60 pts and an iridium crisis suit is 57 pts.
The broadside has twice the missile shots and twice the wounds for the same price and gets more weapons and gear.
Have we confirmed the rumor that Coldstars get real big boy guns yet? People seem to be throwing around the idea that he can be run as quad fusion, which I'd be incredibly into, but I want to be sure.
the_scotsman wrote: Have we confirmed the rumor that Coldstars get real big boy guns yet? People seem to be throwing around the idea that he can be run as quad fusion, which I'd be incredibly into, but I want to be sure.
Indeed he can it's GW's recommendation in the Vior'la sept overview they put out today.
From the article
"The XV86 has a strong claim to being the single most improved unit in the new Codex: T’au Empire, and is particularly powerful in a Vior’la Detachment. Previously, this aerial attack battlesuit had a fixed weapon set of a missile pod and a high-output burst cannon, but all that is changing. Now, you’ll be able to arm all four hardpoints on your Commander as you please, allowing for an array of powerful builds. What’s more, as all of these weapons have the Assault or Rapid Fire type, with the Vior’la Sept Tenet, you’ll be able to effectively move 40″ every turn and fire without penalty! We’d recommend equipping your Vior’la Commander with four fusion blasters for the ultimate tank hunter. Even if you end up overextending, the Neuroweb System Jammer Stratagem should help to keep you safe – or disrupt a key unit that’s threatening the rest of your army."
Yea that is pretty filthy. About time they stopped with the silly limitations based on the sprue crap. Gives me hope for my DE characters and unit leaders now.
alextroy wrote: Simple. Not many units have the option for HYMPs. The cost is therefore baked into the base unit (Broadside Battlesuit I believe).
Is it though? A broadside is now 60 pts and an iridium crisis suit is 57 pts. The broadside has twice the missile shots and twice the wounds for the same price and gets more weapons and gear.
The Broadside also starts with a HRR; correct me if I'm wrong but don't you have to pay for the basic weapon before replacing?
I can't directly find an answer at the moment and mostly have been playing Power levels rather than Points locally.
alextroy wrote: Simple. Not many units have the option for HYMPs. The cost is therefore baked into the base unit (Broadside Battlesuit I believe).
Is it though? A broadside is now 60 pts and an iridium crisis suit is 57 pts.
The broadside has twice the missile shots and twice the wounds for the same price and gets more weapons and gear.
The Broadside also starts with a HRR; correct me if I'm wrong but don't you have to pay for the basic weapon before replacing?
I can't directly find an answer at the moment and mostly have been playing Power levels rather than Points locally.
No. You only pay points for the equipment the model is equipped with. If you replace stock equipment, you do not pay for it.
alextroy wrote: Simple. Not many units have the option for HYMPs. The cost is therefore baked into the base unit (Broadside Battlesuit I believe).
Is it though? A broadside is now 60 pts and an iridium crisis suit is 57 pts.
The broadside has twice the missile shots and twice the wounds for the same price and gets more weapons and gear.
The Broadside also starts with a HRR; correct me if I'm wrong but don't you have to pay for the basic weapon before replacing?
I can't directly find an answer at the moment and mostly have been playing Power levels rather than Points locally.
No. You only pay points for the equipment the model is equipped with. If you replace stock equipment, you do not pay for it.
Do you have a link handy on that?
I went looking for it in the rulebooks and FAQs but couldn't find a definitive answer. I could have swore I saw something about it.
alextroy wrote: Simple. Not many units have the option for HYMPs. The cost is therefore baked into the base unit (Broadside Battlesuit I believe).
Is it though? A broadside is now 60 pts and an iridium crisis suit is 57 pts.
The broadside has twice the missile shots and twice the wounds for the same price and gets more weapons and gear.
The Broadside also starts with a HRR; correct me if I'm wrong but don't you have to pay for the basic weapon before replacing?
I can't directly find an answer at the moment and mostly have been playing Power levels rather than Points locally.
The default equipment is not included in the point cost of the model in matched play. So if you take a broadside with a HRR and two plasma rifles, you add points for Broadside + HRR + Plasma Rifle + Plasma Rifle. If you swap out for two HYMP and two SMS, you add up the points for Broadside + HYMP + HYMP + SMS + SMS.
alextroy wrote: Simple. Not many units have the option for HYMPs. The cost is therefore baked into the base unit (Broadside Battlesuit I believe).
Is it though? A broadside is now 60 pts and an iridium crisis suit is 57 pts.
The broadside has twice the missile shots and twice the wounds for the same price and gets more weapons and gear.
The Broadside also starts with a HRR; correct me if I'm wrong but don't you have to pay for the basic weapon before replacing?
I can't directly find an answer at the moment and mostly have been playing Power levels rather than Points locally.
No. You only pay points for the equipment the model is equipped with. If you replace stock equipment, you do not pay for it.
Do you have a link handy on that?
I went looking for it in the rulebooks and FAQs but couldn't find a definitive answer. I could have swore I saw something about it.
I believe it's in the wording for weapons loadouts. The default is the rail rifle, but you replace it with the HYMP. The crisis suit has the missile pod as default, which can also be replaced. Just like how scions replace their hot shot lasguns with special weapons.
Well I'm definitely buying a Coldstar Commander to have. I like that I can make him have Fusion Blades. I probably won't go with four Fusion blasters on him, since that is kind of boring.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Well I'm definitely buying a Coldstar Commander to have. I like that I can make him have Fusion Blades. I probably won't go with four Fusion blasters on him, since that is kind of boring.
I'm leaning towards a Coldstar with the Supernova Launcher and an Airbursting Fragmentation Launcher, coupled with an Advanced Targeting System and Multi-Tracker. Debating between Bork'an or Sa'cea(Sa'cea lets you get Markerlight Flares-- while Bor'kan would let you reroll the number of attacks) for the Sept; or possibly ditching the Supernova Launcher and giving it the Vector relic as T'au.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Well I'm definitely buying a Coldstar Commander to have. I like that I can make him have Fusion Blades. I probably won't go with four Fusion blasters on him, since that is kind of boring.
I'm leaning towards a Coldstar with the Supernova Launcher and an Airbursting Fragmentation Launcher, coupled with an Advanced Targeting System and Multi-Tracker. Debating between Bork'an or Sa'cea(Sa'cea lets you get Markerlight Flares-- while Bor'kan would let you reroll the number of attacks) for the Sept; or possibly ditching the Supernova Launcher and giving it the Vector relic as T'au.
These are some cool loadouts. Looking forward to seeing what everyone comes up with.
I'm going to give my current Coldstar the Onager Guantlet and Hero of the Enclaves. If I get an Enforcer suit I'm thinking AFP, Ion Blasters, ATS and Seismic Destabilizer (I usually play cities of death )
- In Damocles they capture a ship and retro-engineer the Warp engine. They get it to work and do some tests without result. They join the Fourth Sphere, activate all at once and a huge warp crack swallow them all (will it be the Scar?). They receive signals from the Fourth, so they where alive but do not know where. They have emphasized that without Geller fields the T'au have seen ... "things".
-After the death of Aun'Va they create a "solid hologram" with their mental patterns to deceive the whole world. It even gives orders and interacts. In a campaign against Chaos, it orders a Commander to launch a suicide assault, but he does not feel the need to obey that he usually has in front of an ethereal and refuses. After the campaign, they discover that the Commander and his troops have disappeared. They must have left with O'Shovah. It can be extrapolated that the control capacity of the Ethereals is something biological or that requires physical closeness.
-There is no galactic map in the book. They have not clarified if there is mini-map of the T'au area.
Dandelion wrote: I'm going to give my current Coldstar the Onager Guantlet and Hero of the Enclaves. If I get an Enforcer suit I'm thinking AFP, Ion Blasters, ATS and Seismic Destabilizer (I usually play cities of death )
I really do wish they gave a limit of two relics per character. Could you imagine the possibilities for models with the Fusion Blades AND the Onager Gauntlet? That's pretty badass in my head.
Dandelion wrote: I'm going to give my current Coldstar the Onager Guantlet and Hero of the Enclaves. If I get an Enforcer suit I'm thinking AFP, Ion Blasters, ATS and Seismic Destabilizer (I usually play cities of death )
I really do wish they gave a limit of two relics per character. Could you imagine the possibilities for models with the Fusion Blades AND the Onager Gauntlet? That's pretty badass in my head.
Haha, did you play in the 6th/7th? Buffmander was great but not great for the game
Dandelion wrote: I'm going to give my current Coldstar the Onager Guantlet and Hero of the Enclaves. If I get an Enforcer suit I'm thinking AFP, Ion Blasters, ATS and Seismic Destabilizer (I usually play cities of death )
I really do wish they gave a limit of two relics per character. Could you imagine the possibilities for models with the Fusion Blades AND the Onager Gauntlet? That's pretty badass in my head.
Haha, did you play in the 6th/7th? Buffmander was great but not great for the game
Buffmander wouldn't really play into it here, since you could limit it to "1 non-weapon Signature System". Basically everything in the Tau arsenal here is a weapon this time around.
I’m gonna say I feel disappointed by the “hunting hounds” stratagem.
I reckon the stratagem, with a 6" range instead, should just be an ability of Kroot Hounds. The Stratagem should be something like “Pack Ambush (1CP): extend the range of the ‘Hunting Hounds’ ability of one pack of Kroot Hounds to 18"”
That way the Hounds have a useful ability of their own and the stratagem represents traditional Kroot tactics as applied to the modern battlefield.
Desubot wrote: Wait just one minute.... why is that marker drone shooting pulse rounds like everyone else. on the upper right side.
I like two random Tau inside Chaos lines being ignored by all CSM and Daemons
As for drone, why is the picture so one-sided on upper part? You'd think with DG getting whole arsenal of drones of their own you'd see some sky duels but apparently only Tau are allowed to fly...
Why go Vior'la Coldstar when you can just take a Coldstar warlord with Exemplar of Mont'ka - and advance (40") and shoot as if you hadn't advanced? Because you want to combine it with the shoot twice strat!
Unless you wanted a 4 flamer Vior'la Coldstar (or three and the fancy one) with Through Unity, then trigger the fire twice stratagem... 8D6 flamer attacks after a 40" jump which get -1 save on a 6 ( 2D6 S6 -2/3 save dmg 2 if you upgraded if you went nuclear). Or Precision of the Hunter with 8 fusion shots rerolling 1s to wound, netting you an expected 16.25 wounds before saves against a T8 target and 22 against a T7 one...
Shame they can't have the JSJ strat or relic though.
Dandelion wrote: I'm going to give my current Coldstar the Onager Guantlet and Hero of the Enclaves. If I get an Enforcer suit I'm thinking AFP, Ion Blasters, ATS and Seismic Destabilizer (I usually play cities of death )
I really do wish they gave a limit of two relics per character. Could you imagine the possibilities for models with the Fusion Blades AND the Onager Gauntlet? That's pretty badass in my head.
Haha, did you play in the 6th/7th? Buffmander was great but not great for the game
That was an issue with the character rules than anything else. 6th/7th had more fundamental issues than just that of course.
Tastyfish wrote: Why go Vior'la Coldstar when you can just take a Coldstar warlord with Exemplar of Mont'ka - and advance (40") and shoot as if you hadn't advanced? Because you want to combine it with the shoot twice strat!
Vior'la shoot twice strat is infantry only - so crisis, commanders etc. are exempt from it. Stealth suits have infantry keyword in the index and presumably retain that based on the community post.
Still thinking of them being Jetpack infantry, though does mean that Dal'yth and T'au versions are then able to jet out to 14/15" - leaving enough space to Manta strike something in between to make them harder to hit.
Desubot wrote: Wait just one minute.... why is that marker drone shooting pulse rounds like everyone else. on the upper right side.
I like two random Tau inside Chaos lines being ignored by all CSM and Daemons
As for drone, why is the picture so one-sided on upper part? You'd think with DG getting whole arsenal of drones of their own you'd see some sky duels but apparently only Tau are allowed to fly...
That's the "Breach".
I think this pic shows the absurdity of char targeting.
the_scotsman wrote: Hotstar commander might be amusing. Viorla sept, 4x flamers, viorla flamer relic. Just run around torching things with wild abandon.
Why bother with Vior'la when your shots are auto-hitting anyway?
Seriously, I just realized how silly it is that they of all septs got the special flamer.
Looks like its eldar v crons or soup for comp players.
Necrons need some love but if that list is true it makes me feel even more like my marines are going to spend the rest of 8th unplayable. Thank god for second armies.
Seems like GW still doesn't understand that allowing you to shoot rapid fire 1 weapons as assault 1 weapon is awful. Not sure how they don't get it after Black Legion. Yet they gave Deathguard a proper version.
Very happy with these traits, all of them are good but none of them are extremely overpowered. I think the only one I can't see myself using is Nihilakh, and that's just because Necrons aren't an army built to take advantage of it.
Kirasu wrote: Seems like GW still doesn't understand that allowing you to shoot rapid fire 1 weapons as assault 1 weapon is awful. Not sure how they don't get it after Black Legion. Yet they gave Deathguard a proper version.
The ability to fire a weapon you otherwise wouldn't be able to is just a bonus, the real juicy bit is being able to move and fire heavy weapons without penalty. Tesseract Arks were already great, and now...
Those codes are horrible. Necrons are horrible. Everything is bad. Trash tier army. All armies.
Ah, beating everyone to the punch I see.
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Kirasu wrote: Seems like GW still doesn't understand that allowing you to shoot rapid fire 1 weapons as assault 1 weapon is awful. Not sure how they don't get it after Black Legion. Yet they gave Deathguard a proper version.
If you're in Rapid fire range, why are you advancing?
changemod wrote: My biggest doubt here is that those are all good traits, rather than 0-2 good traits and a bundle of barely usable tat.
Lack of a durability booster is a little annoying unless reanimation has changed again- We really aren't a durability army at the moment.
But they're not all good? It's bordering on 0-0 good traits lol. Better advancing? For what? An all wraith army? Better fight trait.. for again an all wraith army? Re-roll 1s if you're stationary? Huh.. every army gets re-roll 1s with no restrictions.
The only borderline useful one is the Solar Fury but even then you have to get so close and you're probably already dead by then. Very underwhelming.
Those codes are horrible. Necrons are horrible. Everything is bad. Trash tier army. All armies.
Ah, beating everyone to the punch I see.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kirasu wrote: Seems like GW still doesn't understand that allowing you to shoot rapid fire 1 weapons as assault 1 weapon is awful. Not sure how they don't get it after Black Legion. Yet they gave Deathguard a proper version.
If you're in Rapid fire range, why are you advancing?
Thats my point? Lets not rehash all the ways the Black Legion trait is terrible because it was already accomplished in the past. It's an utter garbage ability.
Nephrekh and Sautekh seem pretty terrible. The other could be ok though. The biggest tell will be if there are huge changes to existing units' rules or not, since none of the traits help with durability in an army famed for it.
Thats my point? Lets not rehash all the ways the Black Legion trait is terrible because it was already accomplished in the past. It's an utter garbage ability.
Then I don't understand your point.
If you're in rapid fire range you have no reason to advance at all, which means this trait doesn't affect you. But if you're at max range you can advance without penalty.
Kirasu wrote: Thats my point? Lets not rehash all the ways the Black Legion trait is terrible because it was already accomplished in the past. It's an utter garbage ability.
The Black Legion trait sucks because making rapid fire into assault is basically all it gives as the leadership bonus is mostly useless. Sautekh is getting this AND no heavy penalty, which is great for tesseract arks (which is already our best unit).
But if you're at max range you can advance without penalty.
Except you advanced with assault weapons, thus getting a -1 to hit.
The only situation where this can work is if advancing will bring enough models in range that their added firepower out-weighs the -1 to hit.
Kurgash wrote: Ohhhh I like that Mephrit one with tesla. A lot!
Agreed, it ups the threat level of a lot of units. Night/Doom Scythes are usually at half-range thanks to their great mobility, aggressive Anh. Barge play can work...
It will probably be king on Tomb Blades.
And it can also come in surprisingly handy on Wraiths /w Particle Casters.
But if you're at max range you can advance without penalty.
Except you advanced with assault weapons, thus getting a -1 to hit.
The only situation where this can work is if advancing will bring enough models in range that their added firepower out-weighs the -1 to hit.
but it specifically says you ignore the penalty
Edit: reread it, it's just for heavy weapons and moving, I thought it was like Vior'la or Metalica. Sorry about that.
Automatically Appended Next Post: But the heavy weapon boost is nice, right?
But if you're at max range you can advance without penalty.
Except you advanced with assault weapons, thus getting a -1 to hit.
The only situation where this can work is if advancing will bring enough models in range that their added firepower out-weighs the -1 to hit.
I'll happily agree that the advance and assault traits are usually bad, but the effect on heavy weapons is huge and the fact that it can give rapid fire units a few extra inches of maximum range is ultimately a trivial minor bonus on top of that.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Honestly if you told me that traits list and a points cut to heavy destroyers were the only changes from the index I'd die happy.
Kirasu wrote: Thats my point? Lets not rehash all the ways the Black Legion trait is terrible because it was already accomplished in the past. It's an utter garbage ability.
The Black Legion trait sucks because making rapid fire into assault is basically all it gives as the leadership bonus is mostly useless. Sautekh is getting this AND no heavy penalty, which is great for tesseract arks (which is already our best unit).
No no. Sautek is not only for rapid fire weapons like Black Legion and Tau. It is ALL weapons. Heavy weapons become assault, etc... thats MUCH, MUCH better. It also receives the ignore penalty for moving.
And the Nephrekh one is how you make Necron a movile army
I like the Mephrit one. Sure not going to repaint everything orange though. Nihilakh is useful, but useless on destroyers and is only really for immobile gunline armies. Not sure I like it. Nephrekh sounds hilarious. Gotta go fast. Novokh also sounds neat, but you really want to build a CC army to make the most of it. Destroyers + D. Lord might like it though, and Lychguard will love it. Not sure how the Sautekh trait would help my army. Like, I can see it being useful for vehicles, but it won't do anything for destroyers, who already ignore the penalty for heavy weapons.
So the way I see a solid Spearhead Detachement is with Nihilakh Code - take 2x Doomsday Arks, 1 Anni. Barge and the cheapest HQ (Cryptek/Lord I guess) - let your DDAs sit in the backline with D6 shots each (buffed!), 3+ with re-rollable ones - Anni. Barge is just doing its Anni. Barge, occasionally benefiting from the re-roll 1
I'm not using Forge World stuff, so I don't exactly know a lot about them, but they also might very well be super solid with this code!
Kirasu wrote: Thats my point? Lets not rehash all the ways the Black Legion trait is terrible because it was already accomplished in the past. It's an utter garbage ability.
The Black Legion trait sucks because making rapid fire into assault is basically all it gives as the leadership bonus is mostly useless. Sautekh is getting this AND no heavy penalty, which is great for tesseract arks (which is already our best unit).
Yet BL is what you need to get Abaddon. People don't take UM for fall back and shoot as much as for RG or MC.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: ok, so the Viorla tenet is only if the unit advances. That makes a lot more sense than the rumour, where it left out the clause about advancing.
Mephrit is by far the strongest one. Your talking about veil of darkness 20 warriors into rapid range with -2 ap or 10 immortals with -3. On guass immortals it basically is the equivalent of none overcharged plasma on every guy... Thats nuts. Destroyers with ap -4. Man that trait is good. It's also the only fix to telsa unless they change the profile which eve if they do will still make this stronger. A night scythe or doomscythe would actually kill things with this lol.
Well I think I know which trait is gonna work best with the ever lovely Kutlalh. Everyone around him can advance and charge, AND will get Hatred? fething rad.
Assuming these are all true of course. I didn't believe the Tau ones were real or the Tyranid ones OR the Guard ones. It just seems weird how out of the box some of these new traits are after how lackluster the Chaos Space Marine and Loyalist Scum traits are.
Guess I need to trek back to Vermont and get my Necrons from storage...
But they're not all good? It's bordering on 0-0 good traits lol. Better advancing? For what? An all wraith army? Better fight trait.. for again an all wraith army? Re-roll 1s if you're stationary? Huh.. every army gets re-roll 1s with no restrictions.
The only borderline useful one is the Solar Fury but even then you have to get so close and you're probably already dead by then. Very underwhelming.
Prior to this necrons had no way of rerolling ones, so that trait is super valuable for necron gunlines. Advance and fire is good when your weapons only have a 24" range, it's also best in breed for that particular trait since it affects everything including heavy (the rest just affect rapid fire). A straight -1 to AP at half range means warriors are packing AP -2 and immortals are packing -3 AP, or assault 2 str 5 AP-1 with two extra hits on sixes, numerically it's one of the strongest traits since raven guard, especially since it can be abused by deathmarks, who effectively get ap -1 rapid fire sniper rifles. Contrary to popular belief necrons have a fair number of decent melee units, such as flayed ones (who are rocking 3 attacks a piece and already rerolling failed wounds), Lychguard, and praetorians, so reroll hits on a charge (or when being charged) will be dynamite for the right army comps. It's almost too good to believe as it allows gunline comps, CC Comps, it almost looks like single faction soup. If you are underwhelmed it's because you don't understand.
Triarch stalkers gave a reroll 1 as well as the D lord but they have restricted use. These traits are all decent. I like that they all promote different ways to play.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Well I think I know which trait is gonna work best with the ever lovely Kutlalh. Everyone around him can advance and charge, AND will get Hatred? fething rad.
Well no, because he has the wrong dynastic keyword. His dynasty is the Maynarkh...
I actually like all of these dynasty codes.
Well done GW, finally a Codex where all traits seem viable, instead of the usual "1-2 good, 1-2 decent, rest is garbage".
Just reading the Novokh-codes has increased the chances of Necrons being my next army with 50%.
The Thousand Sons-player within me get's kinda bitter when reading the Mephrit-code however:
Rubric with Infernobolter: 20 ppm.
Nephrit Necron Warrior with Gauss Flayer: 12 ppm (possibly less).
8 points for a 3+/5++ and All is Dust instead of being troop,s a 4+ and RP? So worth it...not.
The Thousand Sons-player within me get's kinda bitter when reading the Mephrit-code however:
Rubric with Infernobolter: 20 ppm.
Nephrit Necron Warrior with Gauss Flayer: 12 ppm (possibly less).
8 points for a 3+/5++ and All is Dust instead of being troop,s a 4+ and RP? So worth it...not.
Well...their gun is only as good when at 12", RP could possibly not activate (we'll have to see if this changes), and a 2+ is a good deal better than a 4+.
I hope there's a stratagem for charging after advancing that can be paired with Nephrekh. That boost to the threat range of the likes of Wraiths, Praetorians, Nightbringer, Lychguard...
DudzeExperiment wrote: No Dynasty Codes for Maynarkh feels bad man. I realize they're a Forge World Dynasty but do we have an precedent for FW factions not getting Traits?
DudzeExperiment wrote: No Dynasty Codes for Maynarkh feels bad man. I realize they're a Forge World Dynasty but do we have an precedent for FW factions not getting Traits?
There's no precedent for anything, yet. We'll know when Fires of Cyraxus comes out if the Red Scorpions get their own rules.
King Pariah wrote: I hope there's a stratagem for charging after advancing that can be paired with Nephrekh. That boost to the threat range of the likes of Wraiths, Praetorians, Nightbringer, Lychguard...
The Nightbringer has no Dynasty keyword, so alas. Neither do Praetorians actually, but one hopes they'll finally get it in the codex.
Red Corsair wrote: Mephrit is by far the strongest one. Your talking about veil of darkness 20 warriors into rapid range with -2 ap or 10 immortals with -3. On guass immortals it basically is the equivalent of none overcharged plasma on every guy... Thats nuts. Destroyers with ap -4. Man that trait is good. It's also the only fix to telsa unless they change the profile which eve if they do will still make this stronger. A night scythe or doomscythe would actually kill things with this lol.
Indeed. I can't see if people are being sarcastic or not but these are amazing SEPT TRAITS. Compared to Tau it's like night and day.
A trait that gives an army a flat bonus to AP is simply amazing. It's an offensive version of -1 to hit.
The other traits are good too, and in an army with 3 detachments we'll no doubt see some mixing.
It's easy to see there's a different design team behind the Necrons than the Tau.
DudzeExperiment wrote: No Dynasty Codes for Maynarkh feels bad man. I realize they're a Forge World Dynasty but do we have an precedent for FW factions not getting Traits?
Do we have a precedent for FW factions getting traits in GW codexes is the question really.
Doctoralex wrote: Eh, not really. It kind of only affects the Triach Stalker and the Doom Scythe (if the Death Ray remains Heavy).
Will it effect the Stalker, as it currently isn't assigned to a specific dynasty? (Or will Stalkers and Praetorians now be able to have dynasty keywords?)
DudzeExperiment wrote: No Dynasty Codes for Maynarkh feels bad man. I realize they're a Forge World Dynasty but do we have an precedent for FW factions not getting Traits?
DudzeExperiment wrote: No Dynasty Codes for Maynarkh feels bad man. I realize they're a Forge World Dynasty but do we have an precedent for FW factions not getting Traits?
Do we have a precedent for FW factions getting traits in GW codexes is the question really.
Technically Tau, but only because there wasn't much of a Sept choice to begin with, really...
The Blood Ravens are not, technically, a Forge World faction, being created for the Dawn of War games by the developers. But the main studio still isn’t about to give them traits either, whilst Forge World might.
As for the T’au… I’m pretty sure the worlds had names and bare descriptions before Forge World took those and expanded them to explain where all these weird riptides were coming from.
I would imagine tau will.have the "if your sept doesnt have a tenet associated with it, then choose the most applicable" line in it.
I believe FWfaq'd that you pick the trait that you feel is most applicable for playing one of their factions that doesnt have traits yet (minotaurs space marines for instance) and then faq'd that dkok and elysians specifically didnt get that as rhey had their own rules. I would imagine this will apply or be FAQ'd to apply fairly quickly. Same with the maynahk dynasty
BoomWolf wrote: There are already rules for SM successor chapters though in the codex, they apply to the ravens as long they don't get thier own rules.
AFAIK, tau don't have a clause that covers kelshen
I wouldn't be surprised to see a clause covering that or Kel'shan getting its own rules with Cyraxus since they were supposed to play a part.
So here's a question about the Nephrekh code: What happens if you phase through a wall but not all models have enough movement to make it through to the other side? Models must maintain coherency so the wall can't be thicker than 2" which in itself is very rare for just a wall piece.
So 19 models phase through the wall and 1 is on the other side. Next turn the unit charges, would the model left behind slowly walk around the wall to join the fight?
Then again this is pretty meh as you could just remove the model as the first casualty.
This in itself could lead to some really creative strategies, have models on different sides of walls. Like having a single model on an objective and the rest on the other side of a wall. If that single model was charged then not as many models would be able to attack it as if all models were on that side. Then again only that 1 model would be able to attack back but still...
Don't mind if I phase through your gunline to get at your tanks behind them do you? Lets pray for charge after advance stratagem or ability
Can you advance as part of a fall back from combat move?
Mephrit is going to be very good I imagine, an extra -1AP while in Rapid Fire range is going to be brutal. I strongly doubt that it is going to be strong on paper and weak in game.
Nephrekh is going to fun to play and makes for a fluid Necron force. Being able to advance a set number removes the randomness, being able to phase through stuff also opens up the table.
Novokoh will make melee Necrons a thing to be aware of, not just with Pariahs, but also Flayed Ones and Wraiths.
Have we heard if the codes affect all Necron models or is it going to be limited to Infantry and Bikes like Space Marines got lumbered with?
The awful naming convention strikes again'Metagold', really? Also the while Tomb Kings in Space mentality has been cemented, with the old Tomb Kings 'my will be done'.
Have we heard if the codes affect all Necron models or is it going to be limited to Infantry and Bikes like Space Marines got lumbered with?
I am sure from here on out everything not in power armor will be effected. I think that was an initial design flaw that they made and have stuck with simply because they had so many power armor codexes finished and released day one. I can't believe it's something they would do again. I expect whenever marine codexes get a rewrite that everything will get traits. It's just such a bizarre limitation, and always has been since that 7th edition book where Iron hands tanks suddenly sucked.
So 19 models phase through the wall and 1 is on the other side. Next turn the unit charges, would the model left behind slowly walk around the wall to join the fight?
Infantry can move through the walls of ruins, and most players play most terrain with walls as ruins.
So 19 models phase through the wall and 1 is on the other side. Next turn the unit charges, would the model left behind slowly walk around the wall to join the fight?
Infantry can move through the walls of ruins, and most players play most terrain with walls as ruins.
Yeah, terrain is counter intuitive in 8th edition. Vehicles and monsters can't smash through solid walls any more, where as infantry can move through solid walls. Even funnier when the Stonecrusher Carnifex fluff mentions how it smashes through walls and such.
So 19 models phase through the wall and 1 is on the other side. Next turn the unit charges, would the model left behind slowly walk around the wall to join the fight?
Infantry can move through the walls of ruins, and most players play most terrain with walls as ruins.
Yeah, terrain is counter intuitive in 8th edition. Vehicles and monsters can't smash through solid walls any more, where as infantry can move through solid walls. Even funnier when the Stonecrusher Carnifex fluff mentions how it smashes through walls and such.
With that Phase rule for that Dynasty our vehicles can go through walls like Infantry now.
Thats my point? Lets not rehash all the ways the Black Legion trait is terrible because it was already accomplished in the past. It's an utter garbage ability.
Then I don't understand your point.
If you're in rapid fire range you have no reason to advance at all, which means this trait doesn't affect you. But if you're at max range you can advance without penalty.
It is circumstantial but you may wish to advance move to claim an objective or similar.
So 19 models phase through the wall and 1 is on the other side. Next turn the unit charges, would the model left behind slowly walk around the wall to join the fight?
Infantry can move through the walls of ruins, and most players play most terrain with walls as ruins.
We actually play it much differently.
Walls are walls unless theyre ruins, and are not traversable.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Well I think I know which trait is gonna work best with the ever lovely Kutlalh. Everyone around him can advance and charge, AND will get Hatred? fething rad.
Well no, because he has the wrong dynastic keyword. His dynasty is the Maynarkh...
FW is gonna make it work like with the successor chapters and garbage like that. You choose the best fitting one as it currently has no specific rules.
So how does this loadout sound like for a Commander?
Commander in XV86 Coldstar Battle Suit
Farsight Enclaves
Exemplar of Mont'ka
2x Fusion Blasters - Fusion Blade Signature System
Shield Generator
Drone Controller(Not sure what type of drone)
This is my only Tau model. I just want to theorize his loadout.
axisofentropy wrote: Don't most Necron vehicles fly? I guess the stalkers could go through walls then.
This is actually pretty huge for them, as I often deploy mine tucked in ruins for the cover, but when I need to move them out it can be a pain since they can't go through the walls.
Commander in XV86 Coldstar Battle Suit
Farsight Enclaves
Exemplar of Mont'ka
2x Fusion Blasters - Fusion Blade Signature System
Shield Generator
Drone Controller(Not sure what type of drone)
This is my only Tau model. I just want to theorize his loadout.
You should maybe ask in the Tau tactics thread which is pretty lively and relevant at the moment. Books been fully spoiled, not much reason discussing tau in here anymore.
axisofentropy wrote: Don't most Necron vehicles fly? I guess the stalkers could go through walls then.
This is actually pretty huge for them, as I often deploy mine tucked in ruins for the cover, but when I need to move them out it can be a pain since they can't go through the walls.
Of course then you cannot shoot him meaning you are wasting his best trait. You only get the benefit if you advance remember.
Random thought, but if Necrons have Grenades, the Sautekh code will be nasty. Those grenades will now be assault, so the one model only restriction will be lifted. Brutal.
Thats my point? Lets not rehash all the ways the Black Legion trait is terrible because it was already accomplished in the past. It's an utter garbage ability.
Then I don't understand your point.
If you're in rapid fire range you have no reason to advance at all, which means this trait doesn't affect you. But if you're at max range you can advance without penalty.
It is circumstantial but you may wish to advance move to claim an objective or similar.
But if you absolutely have to advance, then rapid fire would get 0 shots by default. This gives something.
Looks like the Necron half of my Forge bane box(s) will be getting painted up as part of the Mephrit Dynasty. After Ultras, Custodes, House Teryyn IK and Stormcast my main concern is a paint scheme that doesn't involve blue or gold. The rules are a bonus
GoatboyBeta wrote: Looks like the Necron half of my Forge bane box(s) will be getting painted up as part of the Mephrit Dynasty. After Ultras, Custodes, House Teryyn IK and Stormcast my main concern is a paint scheme that doesn't involve blue or gold. The rules are a bonus
Mephrit was always one of my favorite dynasties, so it is what my side likely will be as well. Though a nice black and Violet scheme would be cool too.
axisofentropy wrote: Don't most Necron vehicles fly? I guess the stalkers could go through walls then.
This is actually pretty huge for them, as I often deploy mine tucked in ruins for the cover, but when I need to move them out it can be a pain since they can't go through the walls.
Of course then you cannot shoot him meaning you are wasting his best trait. You only get the benefit if you advance remember.
If I need to move him, that usually means I had no target to begin with, or at that moment, moving him is more important than shooting in the first place.
axisofentropy wrote: I don't believe it's fake. I believe it came from a playtester, Super Wargamer, but I'm not sure it was really authorized for release.
I suspect 99% of all leaks by playtesters are if not authorized at least "turned a blind eye to" within certain reasons. GW's a big company. breaking a NDA from them would proably get you slapped pretty hard by their legal team
I can't imagine it's fake simply because that picture of the Necron face on the pages is so quintessential Necron codex art design. Unless it's a copy paste from another codex, which I don't think it is, then I think that's a little seal of approval.
axisofentropy wrote: I don't believe it's fake. I believe it came from a playtester, Super Wargamer, but I'm not sure it was really authorized for release.
I suspect 99% of all leaks by playtesters are if not authorized at least "turned a blind eye to" within certain reasons. GW's a big company. breaking a NDA from them would proably get you slapped pretty hard by their legal team
Correct, but can you remember another leak like this? Letting a third-party publish an entire page of the codex before Warhammer Community publishes anything? There's always been an embargo until pre-orders are up.
If it is authorized, something else is going on. Some guess it's a response to the Tau codex salt , but I'm not sure that makes sense.
axisofentropy wrote: I don't believe it's fake. I believe it came from a playtester, Super Wargamer, but I'm not sure it was really authorized for release.
I suspect 99% of all leaks by playtesters are if not authorized at least "turned a blind eye to" within certain reasons. GW's a big company. breaking a NDA from them would proably get you slapped pretty hard by their legal team
Correct, but can you remember another leak like this? Letting a third-party publish an entire page of the codex before Warhammer Community publishes anything? There's always been an embargo until pre-orders are up.
If it is authorized, something else is going on. Some guess it's a response to the Tau codex salt , but I'm not sure that makes sense.
it's possiable this leak is also just that 1% some people are just morons. remember when the entire contents of the indexes and core rules where leaked? apparently that was some game shop owner in Russia whom was promptly banned from ever doing busniess with GW again
Kirasu wrote: It has to be real. Only GW believes the black legion trait is worthy of being printed not once, but twice.
The Necron version is noticeably better than the BL-trait though:
- Turns all ranged weapons into assault when advancing (even heavy) not just rapid fire.
- Only when advancing, so a unit can move and still rapid fire without loosing shots.
- Allows Heavy weapons to move and fire without suffering -1 to hit, and advance and fire with -1 to hit.
The trait is actually pretty good with these changes.
Black Legion pretty much got the unpolished version of the trait, and now it's been polished over several codices (Tau, Necrons)
Stupid question time for me. Is this going to be the thread for a new codices release? By that I mean when Tyranids or Space Marines or Astra Militarium got a new codex rumoured they had their own rumour thread. I don't see a Tau rumour thread so will that mean the Necrons and Dark Elder (keep forgetting what they are called, Drukahari or something like that?) will be in this thread from now on?
Reason I ask it seems when I click on "new unread post" it seems to skip pages and I seemed to have missed a lot. I had to go back 20 pages one time because it didn't link me to the next unread post.
Just want to make sure I need to be more careful in theis thread now.
Kirasu wrote: It has to be real. Only GW believes the black legion trait is worthy of being printed not once, but twice.
The Necron version is noticeably better than the BL-trait though:
- Turns all ranged weapons into assault when advancing (even heavy) not just rapid fire.
- Only when advancing, so a unit can move and still rapid fire without loosing shots.
- Allows Heavy weapons to move and fire without suffering -1 to hit, and advance and fire with -1 to hit.
The trait is actually pretty good with these changes.
Black Legion pretty much got the unpolished version of the trait, and now it's been polished over several codices (Tau, Necrons)
Death Guard got a better version of it too. My guess is that GW thinks having Abigail is to make up for the bad Legion trait.
Davor wrote: Stupid question time for me. Is this going to be the thread for a new codices release? By that I mean when Tyranids or Space Marines or Astra Militarium got a new codex rumoured they had their own rumour thread. I don't see a Tau rumour thread so will that mean the Necrons and Dark Elder (keep forgetting what they are called, Drukahari or something like that?) will be in this thread from now on?
Reason I ask it seems when I click on "new unread post" it seems to skip pages and I seemed to have missed a lot. I had to go back 20 pages one time because it didn't link me to the next unread post.
Just want to make sure I need to be more careful in theis thread now.
Good point. I was thinking exactly the same too! There was one started about necrons. Which I thought was a great idea. Then Someone got a bit powder mad and shut it down. Epic fail IMO.
40k is so massive with threads spiralling out of control. Yet you can have threads advertising a new game Mat and nothing is said.
Davor wrote: Stupid question time for me. Is this going to be the thread for a new codices release? By that I mean when Tyranids or Space Marines or Astra Militarium got a new codex rumoured they had their own rumour thread. I don't see a Tau rumour thread so will that mean the Necrons and Dark Elder (keep forgetting what they are called, Drukahari or something like that?) will be in this thread from now on?
Reason I ask it seems when I click on "new unread post" it seems to skip pages and I seemed to have missed a lot. I had to go back 20 pages one time because it didn't link me to the next unread post.
Just want to make sure I need to be more careful in theis thread now.
Good point. I was thinking exactly the same too! There was one started about necrons. Which I thought was a great idea. Then Someone got a bit powder mad and shut it down. Epic fail IMO.
40k is so massive with threads spiralling out of control. Yet you can have threads advertising a new game Mat and nothing is said.
Very poor system.
Ehhh...the Necron thread was shut down because it wasn't really "a new thread strictly about Necrons" but rather just reposting stuff from here and asking "is this legit".
I'm sure a moderator could comment as to whether or not we should have this thread(which is based off leaks from quite awhile back on the order of codex releases) plus a thread specific to the books when they get officially announced.
)
, but I'm not sure that makes sense.