Bloody Retribution Hurled across the void by an empyric convulsion, a T’au colonisation fleet begins claiming worlds within the Red Scar. Their efforts are brought to a sudden, violent halt by strike forces of Blood Angels, Flesh Tearers and the Angels Sanguine. The planets of D’sandri and Gendal’s Reach are swiftly reclaimed, and the war spills into the Sevensuns System.
soundwave591 wrote: I'm hoping some kind of eldar alliance? IIRC the ethereals were rumored to be eldar originated
I think that was more a fan theory than a rumor, with ethereals being kept deliberately mysterious and the writers themselves didn't really lock down exactly what they were/where they came from. Or even how they inspired the Tau. There was a weird (probably non canon) book called xenobiology that made them out to be clearly artificial, normal Tau being spliced with mind controlling bugs or something. Then there were hints they'd been subverted by mind control slugs, possibly before they "officially" found the mind control slug world. Then the hints that their tech is mostly due to a particularly well maintained STC, and/or some dark age tech somehow elevated the race and created the ethereals (and the other castes possibly). Oh and that they are the remnants of the original necron race having made it to a not radioactive planet and possibly being guided by necrons now that we know they are sentient.
So yeah, classic "pick your own favorite theory" which will likely never be answered, unless some writer is given permission to pull back the curtain. In which case it'll likely be disappointing and not match any of the fan theories.
soundwave591 wrote: I'm hoping some kind of eldar alliance? IIRC the ethereals were rumored to be eldar originated
Not confirmed. Ethereals (and all Tau) are artificially created (or at least evolved). The entire species is a big giant science project, more like a grown up version of the Emperor's Space Marine creation than a "natural" space race (and the whole Farsight chaos-not-chaos-sword-rebellion-suddenly-skipping-the-ethereal-influence-and-life-span-limitation feels a lot like a counter-plot). .
People just assumed the Eldar are behind it, as there isn't really another obvious suspect for the whodunnit? But it could be somebody else, including something yet unknown and/or something human from the Imperium itself.
The "canon facts" are just:
- Tau evolved from stone age to space age in record speed, hidden behind a conveniently stable warpstorm shielding them.
- Tau-evolved got into big civil wars, threatening to wipe them from the universe.
- One night, the ethereals "appeared" in Tau civilization with lots of shining lights in the sky.
- Tau cannot resist their commands and peace broke out with the Ethereals' arrival.
- Farsight finds a magic sword after battling some Greater Daemons and is the only one able to make Tau work without Ethereals (and also get's a 10,000% lifespan upgrade).
soundwave591 wrote: I'm hoping some kind of eldar alliance? IIRC the ethereals were rumored to be eldar originated
Not confirmed. Ethereals (and all Tau) are artificially created (or at least evolved). The entire species is a big giant science project, more like a grown up version of the Emperor's Space Marine creation than a "natural" space race (and the whole Farsight chaos-not-chaos-sword-rebellion-suddenly-skipping-the-ethereal-influence-and-life-span-limitation feels a lot like a counter-plot). .
People just assumed the Eldar are behind it, as there isn't really another obvious suspect for the whodunnit? But it could be somebody else, including something yet unknown and/or something human from the Imperium itself.
The "canon facts" are just:
- Tau evolved from stone age to space age in record speed, hidden behind a conveniently stable warpstorm shielding them.
- Tau-evolved got into big civil wars, threatening to wipe them from the universe.
- One night, the ethereals "appeared" in Tau civilization with lots of shining lights in the sky.
- Tau cannot resist their commands and peace broke out with the Ethereals' arrival.
- Farsight finds a magic sword after battling some Greater Daemons and is the only one able to make Tau work without Ethereals (and also get's a 10,000% lifespan upgrade).
well. There is another bit to that, that gives some clues at least for what influenced the Farsight enclave.
Unknown to its wielder [The Dawnsword] is made from chronophagic alloys which add a slain foe's remaining natural lifespan to that of its owners. This is the secret of Farsight's remarkable longevity, which has spanned to over three centuries.[2]
The Fannon alot of people take "chronophagic alloy" to mean that the Dawn Blade is a Pre-Necron/Necrontyr artifact. Since a blade that absorbs people's life force sounds like the kinda of weapon that the short lived necrontyr would value in this original conflict with the old ones. The sword on the older model also had a very clearly Necron influence to it's design. (That still exists to a lesser extent on the newer model)
From this people assume, that if the necrons are influencing the Farsight Enclaves, This means the Eldar are influencing the Ethereals since Necrons and Eldar are old enemies. Well the Necron/Farsight link is strongly hinted at, the Tau/Eldar link is not. People sort of just infer it. Like you said, it it still pretty open that it could be a alien race we haven't really met before.
The only direct references to this idea, is in the Xenology book. But Xenoology is not considered cannon any more from what I understand. As the book that also states Tau have toes, Eldar Poop Crystals, and mostly references old'cron fluff.
Sounds like they are going either the Event Horizon or Deep Space Nine path for explaining how the Tau get half-way across the universe. With it supposedly being “darker”, I’m thinking it may be more a case of demon/enslaved psychic guide to explain them getting access to/control of Warp drive tech.
demontalons wrote: I don’t see any reason why tai can’t stay the good guys (and by that I mean not be genocidal and xenophobic) but still do horrible things to be able to keep expanding their empire.
But the Tau already are genocidal and xenophobic, they're just not overtly genocidal and xenophobic. In the Tau Empire anyone who isn't Tau is a second class citizen.
They're most akin to... the Aschen from Stargate SG-1. They're calm, civilised, technologically advanced and have all the trappings of a welcoming 'big brother' race that wishes to incorporate other peoples into its domain, all the while systematically marginalising, sterilising, poisoning and reducing their new populace over a very long period of time until what remains of that civilisation is just there to service the real Tau.
Mankind is violent. Orkind is brutal. Eldarkind is arrogant. Taukind is insidious.
Stormonu wrote: Sounds like they are going either the Event Horizon or Deep Space Nine path for explaining how the Tau get half-way across the universe. With it supposedly being “darker”, I’m thinking it may be more a case of demon/enslaved psychic guide to explain them getting access to/control of Warp drive tech.
They've always had warp drive tech, the problem was that their warp presence was insignificant and entering it caused them to pass out. This is from right back in the 3rd ed codex if I remember, and due to this the tau have been forced to adapt tp none warp travel.
demontalons wrote: I don’t see any reason why tai can’t stay the good guys (and by that I mean not be genocidal and xenophobic) but still do horrible things to be able to keep expanding their empire.
But the Tau already are genocidal and xenophobic, they're just not overtly genocidal and xenophobic. In the Tau Empire anyone who isn't Tau is a second class citizen.
They're most akin to... the Aschen from Stargate SG-1. They're calm, civilised, technologically advanced and have all the trappings of a welcoming 'big brother' race that wishes to incorporate other peoples into its domain, all the while systematically marginalising, sterilising, poisoning and reducing their new populace over a very long period of time until what remains of that civilisation is just there to service the real Tau.
Mankind is violent.
Orkind is brutal.
Eldarkind is arrogant.
Taukind is insidious.
I have said the same before - the Aschen are very Tau like
People say "if you aren't a Tau you're a second class citizen" but they can never provide any details on what that actually means and entails.
I wonder why it bothers people so much that by almost every in-universe account living within the Tau empire as a citizen seems to overall be a pretty cushy deal.
BlaxicanX wrote: People say "if you aren't a Tau you're a second class citizen" but they can never provide any details on what that actually means.
I wonder why it bothers people so much that by almost every in-universe account living within the Tau empire as a citizen seems to overall be a pretty cushy deal.
In Dawn of War, if the T'au win the campaign it explicitly mentions that they sterilised any remaining humans. I mean, not great.
BlaxicanX wrote: People say "if you aren't a Tau you're a second class citizen" but they can never provide any details on what that actually means.
I wonder why it bothers people so much that by almost every in-universe account living within the Tau empire as a citizen seems to overall be a pretty cushy deal.
In Dawn of War, if the T'au win the campaign it explicitly mentions that they sterilised any remaining humans. I mean, not great.
Later fluff is even worse, in FFG games Tau aligned humans in Jericho Reach are ISIS-like terrorists who think nothing of suicide-bombing Imperial cities and military outposts.
With nuclear bombs.
And Tau are perfectly fine with it.
Then you have terrible Phil Kelly books, which as far as I am concerned are not canon like everything he wrote, but there you have Ethereals casually ordering Tau officers being lobotomized to insert Puretide chips in their brain, then euthanized once battle ends as 'we don't want to waste medical resources repairing broken doll', Ethereal who casually orders water caste diplomat to slit his own throat for saying mildly insulting thing, Ethereal who is fine to detonate colony ship after all 'valuable' personnel was evacuated (and millions of remaining earth, fire, and air caste Tau on board are 'replaceable' in his words) to deal a blow to Imperial fleet, and a lot of even worse examples than that.
If to Ethereals even Tau are meat puppets that can be casually discarded if not needed, ask yourself, how much concern would be awarded to sub-Tau races?
BlaxicanX wrote: People say "if you aren't a Tau you're a second class citizen" but they can never provide any details on what that actually means.
I wonder why it bothers people so much that by almost every in-universe account living within the Tau empire as a citizen seems to overall be a pretty cushy deal.
In Dawn of War, if the T'au win the campaign it explicitly mentions that they sterilised any remaining humans. I mean, not great.
Seems to be an outlier, probably something they occasionally do with completely hostile populations or something.
Anyhow the real evidence of the tau empire being dystopian is the fact that a quarter of their population are assigned from birth to train and serve as soldiers. The other castes get off lighter, but still don't have a lot of choice. Presumably there's some wiggle room to express interest in a speciality within your caste you excel at?
BlaxicanX wrote: People say "if you aren't a Tau you're a second class citizen" but they can never provide any details on what that actually means.
I wonder why it bothers people so much that by almost every in-universe account living within the Tau empire as a citizen seems to overall be a pretty cushy deal.
In Dawn of War, if the T'au win the campaign it explicitly mentions that they sterilised any remaining humans. I mean, not great.
Later fluff is even worse, in FFG games Tau aligned humans in Jericho Reach are ISIS-like terrorists who think nothing of suicide-bombing Imperial cities and military outposts.
With nuclear bombs.
And Tau are perfectly fine with it.
Then you have terrible Phil Kelly books, which as far as I am concerned are not canon like everything he wrote, but there you have Ethereals casually ordering Tau officers being lobotomized to insert Puretide chips in their brain, then euthanized once battle ends as 'we don't want to waste medical resources repairing broken doll', Ethereal who casually orders water caste diplomat to slit his own throat for saying mildly insulting thing, Ethereal who is fine to detonate colony ship after all 'valuable' personnel was evacuated (and millions of remaining earth, fire, and air caste Tau on board are 'replaceable' in his words) to deal a blow to Imperial fleet, and a lot of even worse examples than that.
If to Ethereals even Tau are meat puppets that can be casually discarded if not needed, ask yourself, how much concern would be awarded to sub-Tau races?
That book sounds excessive, though to be fair there has always been a bit of an undercurrent of that. An undercurrent, that's way to explicit, but still:
Tau respect the value of life and don't like using cannon fodder tactics, but will still happily spend Kroot lives to save tau lives, spend basic fire warriors to preserve more valuable assets like suit pilots, and spend pretty much anything to preserve an ethereal.
Earth127 wrote: Xenology was never fully retconned, just got more more minor retcons and simply old (the book is from 2nd or 3d right?).
Xenology is a book I describe as "anti-canon". It wasn't just retconned. It was [/i]"change how much control we have over what our writers create"[/i] retconned. There's gak in there that just isn't 40K any more.
BlaxicanX wrote: People say "if you aren't a Tau you're a second class citizen" but they can never provide any details on what that actually means and entails.
Name some high-ranking or influential non-Tau members of the Tau Empire.
Tau players always seem to take "For the Greater Good" at face value, when what they should be taking from it is "Some of the worst things imaginable have been done with the best of intentions." "For the Greater Good" is something you say to imply that the atrocity you just committed really wasn't that bad since it will theoretically lead to a better outcome. You burned a box of kittens, but you did it because that orphan was cold.
Yes the Tau are SciFi Utilitarianists, with all the potential negatives that entails. Back in the older editions (3rd, 4th etc) this was rarely explicitely stated but left up to the players imagination, because that simple maxim could be used to justify almost anything. Unfortunately it seems this was missed by a lot of people who thought they were too squeaky clean so the writers have had to be a bit more ham-fisted with making the point, sadly.
BlaxicanX wrote: People say "if you aren't a Tau you're a second class citizen" but they can never provide any details on what that actually means and entails.
I wonder why it bothers people so much that by almost every in-universe account living within the Tau empire as a citizen seems to overall be a pretty cushy deal.
I remember those Codex where humans are moved from border worlds with the Imperium to safer Tau empire worlds, to save them from imperial retaliation. And how explicitely the Tau very much respect the Kroot as a species and as an ally.
That doesn't mean in some sources Tau do not do very shaddy things to other races. Of course they do crappy stuff, but people tend to exaggerate how it is really to live inside the Tau empire. And by all accounts, to live in the Tau Empire is much better than any one else, even if you are not Tau. All those crappy things the Tau do to other races that are part of the Tau Empire are always in the middle of war-zones.
Everybody know the Ethereals where up to something when Tau where first introduced, even in their brigther and first incarnation. But as others have said, the authors that have written about Tau have all a serious lack of subtlety. (But I'll say, of all those examples, blowing a ship to cause a blow to the Imperial fleet is something I could see the Tau doing in a desesperate measure, but not as a regular tactic)
And to be honest I don't take non-GW sources of fluff as canon. Specially something like Soulstorm, a campaing that has multiple endings for every faction.
EnTyme wrote: Tau players always seem to take "For the Greater Good" at face value, when what they should be taking from it is "Some of the worst things imaginable have been done with the best of intentions." "For the Greater Good" is something you say to imply that the atrocity you just committed really wasn't that bad since it will theoretically lead to a better outcome. You burned a box of kittens, but you did it because that orphan was cold.
Burning a box of kittens so the orphans aren't cold anylonger is something the Imperium of Mankind would do. The Tau would seend those kittens and those Orphans to gather wood in the snow, so the director of the Orphanage can stay confortably in his chair.
BlaxicanX wrote: People say "if you aren't a Tau you're a second class citizen" but they can never provide any details on what that actually means and entails.
I wonder why it bothers people so much that by almost every in-universe account living within the Tau empire as a citizen seems to overall be a pretty cushy deal.
I remember those Codex where humans are moved from border worlds with the Imperium to safer Tau empire worlds, to save them from imperial retaliation. And how explicitely the Tau very much respect the Kroot as a species and as an ally.
That doesn't mean in some sources Tau do not do very shaddy things to other races. Of course they do crappy stuff, but people tend to exaggerate how it is really to live inside the Tau empire. And by all accounts, to live in the Tau Empire is much better than any one else, even if you are not Tau. All those crappy things the Tau do to other races that are part of the Tau Empire are always in the middle of war-zones.
Everybody know the Ethereals where up to something when Tau where first introduced, even in their brigther and first incarnation. But as others have said, the authors that have written about Tau have all a serious lack of subtlety. (But I'll say, of all those examples, blowing a ship to cause a blow to the Imperial fleet is something I could see the Tau doing in a desesperate measure, but not as a regular tactic)
And to be honest I don't take non-GW sources of fluff as canon. Specially something like Soulstorm, a campaing that has multiple endings for every faction.
EnTyme wrote: Tau players always seem to take "For the Greater Good" at face value, when what they should be taking from it is "Some of the worst things imaginable have been done with the best of intentions." "For the Greater Good" is something you say to imply that the atrocity you just committed really wasn't that bad since it will theoretically lead to a better outcome. You burned a box of kittens, but you did it because that orphan was cold.
Burning a box of kittens so the orphans aren't cold anylonger is something the Imperium of Mankind would do. The Tau would seend those kittens and those Orphans to gather wood in the snow, so the director of the Orphanage can stay confortably in his chair.
Actually, the Imperium burned the kittens because the Emperor's battery was at 15%, and they assumed the kittens were psykers.
It's one of those process of elimination things for who created the tau, they had to have warp travel, because they left a warp capable vessel parked on the Tau homeworlds moon, So necrons are out. The IoM isn't in the species building game and the mechnicum had planned to eliminate the tau when they were still throwing spears at their food, so probably not the IoM. Of the remaining factions, not many are close enough or technologically capable. Since the 3rd ed codex made it pretty clear that the tau are not naturally occuring and show clear signs of genetic tampering, so we can rule out being naturally occuring. Of the known factions that leaves eldar and the old ones, the later can be fairly safely ruled out because all of their creations were psychic, and they have a slight problem with being dead at the moment.
Which faction of eldar is an open question, peoples default assumption is Craftworld eldar, but fleshcrafting and mind control definitely fall more under the auspice of dark eldar.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ChargerIIC wrote: On the Tau topic (subtopic?) Warhammer Community just released an image defining the 5th sphere of expansion: They are using the StarTide Nexus.
Pierce the fabric of reality, guess they finally made it all the way into the warp. Maybe the Tau accidentally created a little EoT, because once the hole was open they couldn't figure out how to close it, like say the hades anomaly.
Following your reassignment to the Damocles Gulf, it has been deemed necessary to provide an edifying course on the perfidious T’au in order to properly sharpen your hate, especially given the dishonourable tactics this race utilises.*
While their repulsive appearance and outdated political views should prove fuel enough for the forges of your fury, it is important not to forget the tech-heresy the T’au practice, releasing new versions of their war-machines helter-skelter, offering nary a prayer to the twisted machine spirits of their vehicles and dabbling in that most vile of the mechanical arts: the creation of Abominable Intelligences. Compare the so-called “drone” – a device that would doubtless eventually lead to the downfall of the T’au if the Imperium weren’t on course to finish purging them first – to the humble Kataphron Battle Servitor:
The distinction is clear, Guardsman – a “life” of dangerous “enlightenment” and “advancement” vs the safety of the traditions of the Imperium. Do not be fooled by the false promises of the T’au.
We hope you enjoy your deployment to the Damocles Gulf!
Automatically Appended Next Post: and this brings up something that I (and pretty much every other poster has forgotten)
The Tau use AI which pretty much no other 40K faction does, Imperials (to heretical.scary), Elder (no need to when you've got your ancestors spirits), Orks (what's the fun in that) , Tyranids (nope)
I do wonder whether we'll see some sort of tech/AI solution to navigating in the warp combined with this nexus, no living (awake) brains to be corrupted (well after what happened to wave 4) and plenty of scope for bad things to become of it later in the story
Given that mechanicum's weaker AI gets corrupted all the time, I think that might be a little optimistic that just becuase the Tau AI has more freedom to murder you that it'll be less scrapcode prone.
ChargerIIC wrote: Given that mechanicum's weaker AI gets corrupted all the time, I think that might be a little optimistic that just becuase the Tau AI has more freedom to murder you that it'll be less scrapcode prone.
ChargerIIC wrote: Given that mechanicum's weaker AI gets corrupted all the time, I think that might be a little optimistic that just becuase the Tau AI has more freedom to murder you that it'll be less scrapcode prone.
Interestingly it is well hinted that chaos corrupted AI (the men of iron) we're among the main problems that resulted in the age of strife. Hilariously, the propeganda poster is correct on all counts though not understood by the imperium as such. IE the rites that the Ad Mech perform to wake and sooth imperial AI is specifically to help fortify against scrapcode which is ultimately a warp born computer virus. Tau will likely have no defense.
The Tau use AI which pretty much no other 40K faction does, Imperials (to heretical.scary), Elder (no need to when you've got your ancestors spirits), Orks (what's the fun in that) , Tyranids (nope)
I could be wrong, but I think Necrons use something quite similar with the Scarabs and Wraiths.
Star tide... maybe something that creates "waves" in the warp without actually going into it. Maybe a big tank of psyker brains. Then maybe the double sinister downside is causing ill effects in the surrounding area for all those unlucky enough to be around and who have psychic potential (Human auxiliary but not Tau effected)
The Tau use AI which pretty much no other 40K faction does, Imperials (to heretical.scary), Elder (no need to when you've got your ancestors spirits), Orks (what's the fun in that) , Tyranids (nope)
I could be wrong, but I think Necrons use something quite similar with the Scarabs and Wraiths.
No, every single canoptek unit, starting on smallest scarabs and ending on big Tomb Stalkers, is in fact full AI robot.
The point still stands, though, as unlike Tau, Necrons know what the warp is, and how to defend from it (it's even implied Spiders carry gloom prisms, warp dampening devices, to shield themselves first, their masters second).
The Tau use AI which pretty much no other 40K faction does, Imperials (to heretical.scary), Elder (no need to when you've got your ancestors spirits), Orks (what's the fun in that) , Tyranids (nope)
I could be wrong, but I think Necrons use something quite similar with the Scarabs and Wraiths.
No, every single canoptek unit, starting on smallest scarabs and ending on big Tomb Stalkers, is in fact full AI robot.
The point still stands, though, as unlike Tau, Necrons know what the warp is, and how to defend from it (it's even implied Spiders carry gloom prisms, warp dampening devices, to shield themselves first, their masters second).
Which is weird given that one of the T'au races are straight up psykers with the Nicassar.
The Tau use AI which pretty much no other 40K faction does, Imperials (to heretical.scary), Elder (no need to when you've got your ancestors spirits), Orks (what's the fun in that) , Tyranids (nope)
I could be wrong, but I think Necrons use something quite similar with the Scarabs and Wraiths.
No, every single canoptek unit, starting on smallest scarabs and ending on big Tomb Stalkers, is in fact full AI robot.
The point still stands, though, as unlike Tau, Necrons know what the warp is, and how to defend from it (it's even implied Spiders carry gloom prisms, warp dampening devices, to shield themselves first, their masters second).
Which is weird given that one of the T'au races are straight up psykers with the Nicassar.
They have more than likely been written out of the background.
Here is an idea, maybe the Tau figured out/traded for the ability to make Dolmen gates, devices the necrons use to burrow into the webway. Nexus implies a meeting of many paths, and that would describe webway.
Trazyn might have even traded it to them if they gave him something worth it in return.
Grimgold wrote: Here is an idea, maybe the Tau figured out/traded for the ability to make Dolmen gates, devices the necrons use to burrow into the webway. Nexus implies a meeting of many paths, and that would describe webway.
Trazyn might have even traded it to them if they gave him something worth it in return.
I'm going to go with them having created their own network of Sunportals.
Navigator gene essentially lets you open a minor warp gate via psychic powers, actually going through the warp is less of an issue of the Tau if you assume the ZX Horizon Generator's near FTL speed is the same as the Imperial descriptions of a Tau ship's shallow dive as being "like holding soap under water".
Essentially FTL reverse engineered from the crashed Imperial colonisation fleet's warp drive found on the moon, but lacking the key component to actually make it work properly and punch through to the other reality. Instead just using it as a way to accelerate a ship rather than transition to a reality in which material distance is a concept rather than ground to be covered.
Now that the Cicatrix Maledictum is open across the whole galaxy, finding a hole in reality to launch your ships through is a lot easier...as long as your willing to go to the dark place for your deep dives. Could explain what happened to the 4th sphere colonisation fleet too if Tau tech has focused on staying under longer and going further with it's shallow dives, expecting to surface naturally, when they accidentally launch into the largest warp rift the galaxy has ever seen. "Startide Nexus" is definitely the T'au term for the Cicatrix Maledictum, threads that are unreliable but extend across the galaxy and let you reach all corners of it rather than being forced to stay in your home cluster.
Tastyfish wrote: Navigator gene essentially lets you open a minor warp gate via psychic powers, actually going through the warp is less of an issue of the Tau if you assume the ZX Horizon Generator's near FTL speed is the same as the Imperial descriptions of a Tau ship's shallow dive as being "like holding soap under water".
Essentially FTL reverse engineered from the crashed Imperial colonisation fleet's warp drive found on the moon, but lacking the key component to actually make it work properly and punch through to the other reality. Instead just using it as a way to accelerate a ship rather than transition to a reality in which material distance is a concept rather than ground to be covered.
Now that the Cicatrix Maledictum is open across the whole galaxy, finding a hole in reality to launch your ships through is a lot easier...as long as your willing to go to the dark place for your deep dives. Could explain what happened to the 4th sphere colonisation fleet too if Tau tech has focused on staying under longer and going further with it's shallow dives, expecting to surface naturally, when they accidentally launch into the largest warp rift the galaxy has ever seen. "Startide Nexus" is definitely the T'au term for the Cicatrix Maledictum, threads that are unreliable but extend across the galaxy and let you reach all corners of it rather than being forced to stay in your home cluster.
wrong. wrong absolutely wrong. the Navigator gene enables you to NAVIGATE through the warp. they have a third eye that specificly allows this
Tastyfish wrote: Navigator gene essentially lets you open a minor warp gate via psychic powers, actually going through the warp is less of an issue of the Tau if you assume the ZX Horizon Generator's near FTL speed is the same as the Imperial descriptions of a Tau ship's shallow dive as being "like holding soap under water".
Essentially FTL reverse engineered from the crashed Imperial colonisation fleet's warp drive found on the moon, but lacking the key component to actually make it work properly and punch through to the other reality. Instead just using it as a way to accelerate a ship rather than transition to a reality in which material distance is a concept rather than ground to be covered.
Now that the Cicatrix Maledictum is open across the whole galaxy, finding a hole in reality to launch your ships through is a lot easier...as long as your willing to go to the dark place for your deep dives. Could explain what happened to the 4th sphere colonisation fleet too if Tau tech has focused on staying under longer and going further with it's shallow dives, expecting to surface naturally, when they accidentally launch into the largest warp rift the galaxy has ever seen. "Startide Nexus" is definitely the T'au term for the Cicatrix Maledictum, threads that are unreliable but extend across the galaxy and let you reach all corners of it rather than being forced to stay in your home cluster.
wrong. wrong absolutely wrong. the Navigator gene enables you to NAVIGATE through the warp. they have a third eye that specificly allows this
Dark age ships could use computers to Navigate (but possibly only whilst in Realspace), but only short hops without the Astronomicon, and yes the Navigator's third eye also lets them see the warp and Navigate a Starship better than the old computers could. But apparently you can't just board a ship and jump into the warp at the push of a button either. Pretty sure it was a post from Gav or Jervis on Warseer or the old Specialist games forums, but part of the navigator's role is also in navigating the transition to the warp - some parts of space you can do this easier than others (a lot of traffic makes minor tears and makes it easier to open a tear wide enough to jump through), but it's that bit that still need the navigator for - hence why Tau just trying to force through results in skimming the surface rather than a proper dive. They can't break the surface (or penetrate too deep, old fluff was always vague on what the interphase was) but can use it to bounce back and add unreal acceleration to their ships.
I'll see if I can dig up the reference, might even be Armada
demontalons wrote: I don’t see any reason why tai can’t stay the good guys (and by that I mean not be genocidal and xenophobic) but still do horrible things to be able to keep expanding their empire.
But the Tau already are genocidal and xenophobic, they're just not overtly genocidal and xenophobic. In the Tau Empire anyone who isn't Tau is a second class citizen.
They're most akin to... the Aschen from Stargate SG-1. They're calm, civilised, technologically advanced and have all the trappings of a welcoming 'big brother' race that wishes to incorporate other peoples into its domain, all the while systematically marginalising, sterilising, poisoning and reducing their new populace over a very long period of time until what remains of that civilisation is just there to service the real Tau.
Mankind is violent.
Orkind is brutal.
Eldarkind is arrogant.
Taukind is insidious.
perfect description of my 40K race of choice, using my favorite tv show as an example, exalted!
edit: spelling
Following your reassignment to the Damocles Gulf, it has been deemed necessary to provide an edifying course on the perfidious T’au in order to properly sharpen your hate, especially given the dishonourable tactics this race utilises.*
While their repulsive appearance and outdated political views should prove fuel enough for the forges of your fury, it is important not to forget the tech-heresy the T’au practice, releasing new versions of their war-machines helter-skelter, offering nary a prayer to the twisted machine spirits of their vehicles and dabbling in that most vile of the mechanical arts: the creation of Abominable Intelligences. Compare the so-called “drone” – a device that would doubtless eventually lead to the downfall of the T’au if the Imperium weren’t on course to finish purging them first – to the humble Kataphron Battle Servitor:
The distinction is clear, Guardsman – a “life” of dangerous “enlightenment” and “advancement” vs the safety of the traditions of the Imperium. Do not be fooled by the false promises of the T’au.
We hope you enjoy your deployment to the Damocles Gulf!
Automatically Appended Next Post: and this brings up something that I (and pretty much every other poster has forgotten)
The Tau use AI which pretty much no other 40K faction does, Imperials (to heretical.scary), Elder (no need to when you've got your ancestors spirits), Orks (what's the fun in that) , Tyranids (nope)
I do wonder whether we'll see some sort of tech/AI solution to navigating in the warp combined with this nexus, no living (awake) brains to be corrupted (well after what happened to wave 4) and plenty of scope for bad things to become of it later in the story
There already is a tech solution to navigating the warp, the Imperium use it all the time and it was the primary method of interstellar travel before the Navigator mutation arose - you can compute very short warp jumps along established routes with enough success to make it worthwhile relative to just boosting up to near-lightspeed and cruising, but it's slooooow and inefficient relative to Navigating properly. You can't science up anything better than that because the nature of the warp doesn't allow for it - it's a roiling sea of both small- and large-C chaos, and the longer you remain in it the more your calculated position relative to realspace changes, exponentially. If you stay in too long without something that has the ability to comprehend the shifting tides in real-time - something a computer ostensibly cannot do - you could come out anywhere or anywhen.
But hey, that's just the background as it's been for decades and since GW are apparently dropping hints in the new wolfy novel about female Space Marines, evidently that doesn't even slightly matter anymore, anything goes
Tastyfish wrote: Navigator gene essentially lets you open a minor warp gate via psychic powers, actually going through the warp is less of an issue of the Tau if you assume the ZX Horizon Generator's near FTL speed is the same as the Imperial descriptions of a Tau ship's shallow dive as being "like holding soap under water".
Essentially FTL reverse engineered from the crashed Imperial colonisation fleet's warp drive found on the moon, but lacking the key component to actually make it work properly and punch through to the other reality. Instead just using it as a way to accelerate a ship rather than transition to a reality in which material distance is a concept rather than ground to be covered.
Now that the Cicatrix Maledictum is open across the whole galaxy, finding a hole in reality to launch your ships through is a lot easier...as long as your willing to go to the dark place for your deep dives. Could explain what happened to the 4th sphere colonisation fleet too if Tau tech has focused on staying under longer and going further with it's shallow dives, expecting to surface naturally, when they accidentally launch into the largest warp rift the galaxy has ever seen. "Startide Nexus" is definitely the T'au term for the Cicatrix Maledictum, threads that are unreliable but extend across the galaxy and let you reach all corners of it rather than being forced to stay in your home cluster.
wrong. wrong absolutely wrong. the Navigator gene enables you to NAVIGATE through the warp. they have a third eye that specificly allows this
Dark age ships could use computers to Navigate (but possibly only whilst in Realspace), but only short hops without the Astronomicon, and yes the Navigator's third eye also lets them see the warp and Navigate a Starship better than the old computers could. But apparently you can't just board a ship and jump into the warp at the push of a button either. Pretty sure it was a post from Gav or Jervis on Warseer or the old Specialist games forums, but part of the navigator's role is also in navigating the transition to the warp - some parts of space you can do this easier than others (a lot of traffic makes minor tears and makes it easier to open a tear wide enough to jump through), but it's that bit that still need the navigator for - hence why Tau just trying to force through results in skimming the surface rather than a proper dive. They can't break the surface (or penetrate too deep, old fluff was always vague on what the interphase was) but can use it to bounce back and add unreal acceleration to their ships.
I'll see if I can dig up the reference, might even be Armada
Yes, Navigators help control the translation into the warp, but they do not open a warp rift themselves, that's what the warp engine is for. In fact, that's all the warp engine is for IIRC, once in the warp ships use standard propulsion to navigate, it's the shifting of the tides of the warp itself that permit them to travel huge distances relative to realspace.
Mr Morden wrote: Large void gates have been in the lore since the beginning - not just the webway
There was at least one instance covered in one of the Forge World Horus Heresy books that (I think) the Emperor's Children found, some crystaline fethers warped through it, they had a huge feth-off battle, and then the warp gate stopped functioning forever.
But hey, that's just the background as it's been for decades and since GW are apparently dropping hints in the new wolfy novel about female Space Marines, evidently that doesn't even slightly matter anymore, anything goes
But hey, that's just the background as it's been for decades and since GW are apparently dropping hints in the new wolfy novel about female Space Marines, evidently that doesn't even slightly matter anymore, anything goes
Mr Morden wrote: Large void gates have been in the lore since the beginning - not just the webway
There was at least one instance covered in one of the Forge World Horus Heresy books that (I think) the Emperor's Children found, some crystaline fethers warped through it, they had a huge feth-off battle, and then the warp gate stopped functioning forever.
On topic, Tau this weekend, I get.
Then Necrons and Orks is the thought?
Necrons and Dark Eldar, in an order yet to be disclosed by GW.
Orks have not been scheduled that I am aware of yet
It might be that all those who got stuff in Chapter Approved all get Codexes - but then Custodians did...
If the CA races get them we still have the following to come
Orks - certain, maybe a char model
Space Wolves - certain, its a Marine Codex so new models - Primaris Wolves all Wulfed up
Genestealer Cults - certain,
Knights - certain, new models
Sisters - might do it, needs models but....
I am guessing Wolves as the next Dex, then Knights and Orks.
So is there a lore reason as to why FTL not involving the warp isn't a thing?
When I was quite a bit younger I had many assumptions about the Tau, and little access to the fluff. I always assumed their big thing was that their technology was so good they didn't need the warp. Obviously, I was wrong on that, but why couldn't this just be a thing?
Togusa wrote: So is there a lore reason as to why FTL not involving the warp isn't a thing?
When I was quite a bit younger I had many assumptions about the Tau, and little access to the fluff. I always assumed their big thing was that their technology was so good they didn't need the warp. Obviously, I was wrong on that, but why couldn't this just be a thing?
Necrons used to be able to do it - its a bit vague if they can do it now.
As I understand it you need to do something major to go faster than light?
Mr Morden wrote: Orks have not been scheduled that I am aware of yet
It might be that all those who got stuff in Chapter Approved all get Codexes - but then Custodians did...
If the CA races get them we still have the following to come
Orks - certain, maybe a char model
Space Wolves - certain, its a Marine Codex so new models - Primaris Wolves all Wulfed up
Genestealer Cults - certain,
Knights - certain, new models
Sisters - might do it, needs models but....
I am guessing Wolves as the next Dex, then Knights and Orks.
Also likely Emperors Children
As I understand it, popular convention has
Tau, Necrons = March
Drukhari, H'arlequins = April
Space Wolves = May
Orks = June
I am dubious about Knights getting another codex, mainly because I just never saw a point in the first one.
Sisters of Battle, likely needs a massive rework and redesign. The demand is there, and I'm sure at some point there will be a delivery. However, did anyone else notice that Ultramarines now have their own tab on the GW website? I'm willing to be they will get their own codex, just like they had in 2nd? Codex Primaris is also likely a thing. Gravis Captains, Chapter Ancients, and Lieutenants still have no official release outside of Dark Imperium. Emperors Children and World Eaters are almost certainly a garuntee.
It's painfully obvious that we will see
Magnus
Mortarion
Angron
Fulgrim
With the possibility of seeing models for Perterabo and Lorgar.
Then for the Loyalists,
Roboute
Probably:
Vulkan
Russ
Corax (?)
Dorn (?)
Khan (?)
I could see them going the route of having the loyalists get more primarchs, but they're less powerful when compared to the warp enhanced brothers.
So one thing I do want to say is that I hope they do not get too bogged down with releasing a whole bunch of new factions with only 4 entries for units. I'd much rather like to see aspect warriors and a lot of the old finecast stuff redone the same way we saw the new cryptek.
Mr Morden wrote: Orks have not been scheduled that I am aware of yet
It might be that all those who got stuff in Chapter Approved all get Codexes - but then Custodians did...
If the CA races get them we still have the following to come
Orks - certain, maybe a char model
Space Wolves - certain, its a Marine Codex so new models - Primaris Wolves all Wulfed up
Genestealer Cults - certain,
Knights - certain, new models
Sisters - might do it, needs models but....
I am guessing Wolves as the next Dex, then Knights and Orks.
Also likely Emperors Children
As I understand it, popular convention has
Tau, Necrons = March
Drukhari, H'arlequins = April
Space Wolves = May
Orks = June
I am dubious about Knights getting another codex, mainly because I just never saw a point in the first one.
Sisters of Battle, likely needs a massive rework and redesign. The demand is there, and I'm sure at some point there will be a delivery. However, did anyone else notice that Ultramarines now have their own tab on the GW website? I'm willing to be they will get their own codex, just like they had in 2nd? Codex Primaris is also likely a thing. Gravis Captains, Chapter Ancients, and Lieutenants still have no official release outside of Dark Imperium. Emperors Children and World Eaters are almost certainly a garuntee.
It's painfully obvious that we will see
Magnus
Mortarion
Angron
Fulgrim
With the possibility of seeing models for Perterabo and Lorgar.
Then for the Loyalists,
Roboute
Probably:
Vulkan
Russ
Corax (?)
Dorn (?)
Khan (?)
I could see them going the route of having the loyalists get more primarchs, but they're less powerful when compared to the warp enhanced brothers.
So one thing I do want to say is that I hope they do not get too bogged down with releasing a whole bunch of new factions with only 4 entries for units. I'd much rather like to see aspect warriors and a lot of the old finecast stuff redone the same way we saw the new cryptek.
Knights are getting new models so they will get a new codex. Ultramarines probably won't get a new dex cause they have the SM dex and like 10 characters in it. All of the primarchs will probably get models and rules. It'd be silly not to. People are gobbling up the models and GW isn't stupid enough to let fluff get in the way of $$$.
Togusa wrote: So is there a lore reason as to why FTL not involving the warp isn't a thing?
When I was quite a bit younger I had many assumptions about the Tau, and little access to the fluff. I always assumed their big thing was that their technology was so good they didn't need the warp. Obviously, I was wrong on that, but why couldn't this just be a thing?
FTL without the warp is a thing, the necrons have Inertialess drives that allow them to go FTL by accelerating endlessly, so they can get up to very very fast speeds. The tyranids also have a specialized bio ships that allow "slow" faster than light travel (taking a few years instead of hundreds). There is also things like wormholes, and time travel (though technically speaking any FTL is arguably time travel), that allow you to get the same effect.
I think they will finish the basic codexes and then start a wave of expanded codexes for specific forces. I can certainly see each original legion eventually getting a codex, probably starting with The Emperor's Children and World eaters since they are each dedicated to a specific chaos god.
I could also see a White Scar's codex even though they are a Codex Chapter just because of their different focus and stormcallers. Salamanders, and Raven Guard are specialized enough to earn future codex too I think. I am really surprised we don't have Black Templar codex too.
I hope that the Sisters of Battle get the major line update and codex just to make so many people happy.
Grimgold wrote: It's not really a mystery when they said all of these factions will get a codex to literally quote the book
This section is therefore designed to give these patient players a set of rules to use in the interim until the codex for their Faction is released.
You are really over-confident in GW's writing ability if you think that confirms those factions getting a codex. Remember how they write their rules lol.
vadersson wrote: I think they will finish the basic codexes and then start a wave of expanded codexes for specific forces. I can certainly see each original legion eventually getting a codex, probably starting with The Emperor's Children and World eaters since they are each dedicated to a specific chaos god.
I could also see a White Scar's codex even though they are a Codex Chapter just because of their different focus and stormcallers. Salamanders, and Raven Guard are specialized enough to earn future codex too I think. I am really surprised we don't have Black Templar codex too.
I hope that the Sisters of Battle get the major line update and codex just to make so many people happy.
Thanks,
Duncan
Many of the Chapters have as much character and speclalisation as the oh so special ones that got a codex, it was only the increasing flanderisaiton that gave them their "unique" units. Rather than lots of Codexes - books with background, couple of characters, relics etc for a few dozen chapters would be much better and less chance of Wulfy Wulf Wolfness infecting other Chapters.
Again a Codex for each Chaos Power would be have been great rather than what they did
Mr Morden wrote: Orks have not been scheduled that I am aware of yet
It might be that all those who got stuff in Chapter Approved all get Codexes - but then Custodians did...
If the CA races get them we still have the following to come
Orks - certain, maybe a char model
Space Wolves - certain, its a Marine Codex so new models - Primaris Wolves all Wulfed up
Genestealer Cults - certain,
Knights - certain, new models
Sisters - might do it, needs models but....
I am guessing Wolves as the next Dex, then Knights and Orks.
Also likely Emperors Children
As I understand it, popular convention has
Tau, Necrons = March
Drukhari, H'arlequins = April
Space Wolves = May
Orks = June
I am dubious about Knights getting another codex, mainly because I just never saw a point in the first one.
Sisters of Battle, likely needs a massive rework and redesign. The demand is there, and I'm sure at some point there will be a delivery. However, did anyone else notice that Ultramarines now have their own tab on the GW website? I'm willing to be they will get their own codex, just like they had in 2nd? Codex Primaris is also likely a thing. Gravis Captains, Chapter Ancients, and Lieutenants still have no official release outside of Dark Imperium. Emperors Children and World Eaters are almost certainly a garuntee.
It's painfully obvious that we will see
Magnus
Mortarion
Angron
Fulgrim
With the possibility of seeing models for Perterabo and Lorgar.
Then for the Loyalists,
Roboute
Probably:
Vulkan
Russ
Corax (?)
Dorn (?)
Khan (?)
I could see them going the route of having the loyalists get more primarchs, but they're less powerful when compared to the warp enhanced brothers.
So one thing I do want to say is that I hope they do not get too bogged down with releasing a whole bunch of new factions with only 4 entries for units. I'd much rather like to see aspect warriors and a lot of the old finecast stuff redone the same way we saw the new cryptek.
Knights are getting new models so they will get a new codex. Ultramarines probably won't get a new dex cause they have the SM dex and like 10 characters in it. All of the primarchs will probably get models and rules. It'd be silly not to. People are gobbling up the models and GW isn't stupid enough to let fluff get in the way of $$$.
Grimgold wrote: It's not really a mystery when they said all of these factions will get a codex to literally quote the book
This section is therefore designed to give these patient players a set of rules to use in the interim until the codex for their Faction is released.
You are really over-confident in GW's writing ability if you think that confirms those factions getting a codex. Remember how they write their rules lol.
I'm really not sure what you want man, skywriting, a notarized declaration of intent, a contract singed in blood? They said those factions are all getting codexes in as unambiguous a way as they have ever communicated. The only mysteries left, are what order, what are the dates, and if we will get another surprise codex like custodes.
There's no such thing as an AdMech-only Knight, only Knightly Household Knights. There's no way they'd release a Questor Mechanicus-only Knight, particularly since they've already released the Adeptus Mechanicus codex. We know from Chapter Approved that Imperial Knight-only armies are definitely a thing, as it gave specifically worded rules so that you could have an Imperial Knight Warlord. An entire codex for a handful of units may seem farfetched, but who expected an Adeptus Custodes codex? As I've heard it, current rumours indicate that the Armiger Warglaive kit will probably be able to be built in at least 2 patterns, possibly 4, which makes sense considering the Imperial Knight itself can be built into 5 different patterns.
But they don't use AdMech-only knight patterns, as Togusa implied. They Armiger preview was painted like an Mechanicus-dedicated house, and all Knightly houses are aligned with the AdMech in some way, but as far as we've seen, the AdMech allows the Knightly Houses to use any Knight pattern.
There's a rumour of a Kult of Speed specific codex which would make a ton of sense to me. So hopefully races other than marines will get some sub faction codexes too.
They're expanding the line with at least one new kit that is rumored to have between two and four variant builds. The fact you dislike something doesn't make it invalid.
Grimgold wrote: It's not really a mystery when they said all of these factions will get a codex to literally quote the book
This section is therefore designed to give these patient players a set of rules to use in the interim until the codex for their Faction is released.
You are really over-confident in GW's writing ability if you think that confirms those factions getting a codex. Remember how they write their rules lol.
However better arqument is money. Doing codex is like print money for them. Can be quick&easy to do but sure to sell.
EnTyme wrote: They're expanding the line with at least one new kit that is rumored to have between two and four variant builds. The fact you dislike something doesn't make it invalid.
and more to the point GW seems to be doing their best to ensure that no army with a codex is going to be rendered invalid.
v0iddrgn wrote: Imperial Knights should just stay within the Ad Mech book. Honestly, IK shouldn't have had their own book from the onset.
The first Codex actually had lots of interresting and new story and in-universe information - more so than the majority fo 7th Ed Codexes which were sorely lacking in either. They actually did abit about the society and even discussed those other than Knights.
Of coruse the second version dropped alot of that and they never bothered to actually make models of the household beyond the Knights but it was certainly a better read than most.
Mr Morden wrote: Orks have not been scheduled that I am aware of yet
It might be that all those who got stuff in Chapter Approved all get Codexes - but then Custodians did...
If the CA races get them we still have the following to come
Orks - certain, maybe a char model
Space Wolves - certain, its a Marine Codex so new models - Primaris Wolves all Wulfed up
Genestealer Cults - certain,
Knights - certain, new models
Sisters - might do it, needs models but....
I am guessing Wolves as the next Dex, then Knights and Orks.
Also likely Emperors Children
I am actually betting the wolves get the first female marines. Cats out the bag fluff wise from what I have been told and shield maidens would be the most fitting of all the chapters.
The first IK codex was IIRC released quite a while before the two AM books. So GW had to either release a stand alone book for them or attach them to another force, and of course by making them a independent faction they could sell them to all Imperial players.
I am actually betting the wolves get the first female marines. Cats out the bag fluff wise from what I have been told and shield maidens would be the most fitting of all the chapters.
I dunno. That bit in Ashes could easily be nothing more than the musings of a in universe character. Of course it could also be laying the groundwork for female SW. I guess only GW's top brass and the writer would know for now.
Grimgold wrote: I'm really not sure what you want man, skywriting, a notarized declaration of intent, a contract singed in blood?
I would like some precise plan in an official announcement.
Something like a post on the GW Community website saying:
- We are planning to release the following: Codex Blah, Codex Blih, Codex Whatever, … You can expect Codex X to arrive at the beginning of [month], followed by codex Y in [another month], and codex Z in [some time]. We will give more information on the release date of the other codecies in later announcements.
Grimgold wrote: They said those factions are all getting codexes in as unambiguous a way as they have ever communicated.
I'm still not sure if Sisters will have a codex, share one with other models, or be left with the index. And yeah, I don't put any faith in a throwaway line that may perfectly be true for most of the factions but not all of them.
tneva82 wrote: However better arqument is money. Doing codex is like print money for them. Can be quick&easy to do but sure to sell.
It was true before and yet Sisters went several editions without a printed codex, or even a readily available one (when they only had the rules in an unavailable anymore WD). Not to mention the lack of translation.
Soooooooo… no, not a convincing argument to me. Sorry.
I would like some precise plan in an official announcement.
Something like a post on the GW Community website saying:
- We are planning to release the following: Codex Blah, Codex Blih, Codex Whatever, … You can expect Codex X to arrive at the beginning of [month], followed by codex Y in [another month], and codex Z in [some time]. We will give more information on the release date of the other codecies in later announcements.
Because putting it into a book isn't official enough?
I'm still not sure if Sisters will have a codex, share one with other models, or be left with the index. And yeah, I don't put any faith in a throwaway line that may perfectly be true for most of the factions but not all of them.
They were literally called out by their faction keyword, Adeptus Sororitas, that is as specific as saying space wolves will get codex. It was not a throwaway line, and it jives perfectly with what they've said in the past, that every faction from 7th ed will get a codex in 8th ed.
I'm still not sure if Sisters will have a codex, share one with other models, or be left with the index. And yeah, I don't put any faith in a throwaway line that may perfectly be true for most of the factions but not all of them.
They were literally called out by their faction keyword, Adeptus Sororitas, that is as specific as saying space wolves will get codex. It was not a throwaway line, and it jives perfectly with what they've said in the past, that every faction from 7th ed will get a codex in 8th ed.
If every faction from 7th gets a codex in 8th, then maybe there is yet hope that they'll bring back Khorne Daemonkin. I'd love to see this happen, with a newly reworked Blood Tithe table (that was the coolest part of that codex IMO).
Grimgold wrote: Because putting it into a book isn't official enough?
Putting one sentence that imply, but doesn't state outright, that all the factions mentioned will get a codex, and putting it in the middle of a book, is not an announcement enough. When you make an announcement, you make it explicit, and you make it stand out. That's what I tried to convey I wanted when I answered your question about what I wanted. Something explicit, not implicit, and that's put on the forefront, not hidden in the middle of a book.
And yeah I'm being cautious. Because GW literally, explicitly said “Plastic Sisters of Battle” in one of their video, and then when called on it said “Oh but you had Sisters of Silence it's the same”. So you should be cautious too!
I like how people say Knights don't need a codex. Sisters didn't get a codex for decades, clearly they don't need one either now that they got the index. They've even teased a new Knight model type! A new codex is a shoe in.
I'm still not sure if Sisters will have a codex, share one with other models, or be left with the index. And yeah, I don't put any faith in a throwaway line that may perfectly be true for most of the factions but not all of them.
They were literally called out by their faction keyword, Adeptus Sororitas, that is as specific as saying space wolves will get codex. It was not a throwaway line, and it jives perfectly with what they've said in the past, that every faction from 7th ed will get a codex in 8th ed.
If every faction from 7th gets a codex in 8th, then maybe there is yet hope that they'll bring back Khorne Daemonkin. I'd love to see this happen, with a newly reworked Blood Tithe table (that was the coolest part of that codex IMO).
They kept the blood tithe for Age of Sigmar too, it really does work well with Khorne stuff... But we will likely see it with Codex: World Eaters rather then a generic Khorne/Worshippers dex.
I suspect we'll see KDK/World Eaters whenever they are getting ready to release Angron. Either will make sense for Angron, since Angron is pretty firmly team Khorne, rather than mostly his own thing like Kharn.
Crazyterran wrote: I suspect we'll see KDK/World Eaters whenever they are getting ready to release Angron. Either will make sense for Angron, since Angron is pretty firmly team Khorne, rather than mostly his own thing like Kharn.
yeah ratgher then KDK I suspect the codex will be renamed to world eaters.
Grimgold wrote: Because putting it into a book isn't official enough?
Putting one sentence that imply, but doesn't state outright, that all the factions mentioned will get a codex, and putting it in the middle of a book, is not an announcement enough. When you make an announcement, you make it explicit, and you make it stand out.
That's what I tried to convey I wanted when I answered your question about what I wanted. Something explicit, not implicit, and that's put on the forefront, not hidden in the middle of a book.
And yeah I'm being cautious. Because GW literally, explicitly said “Plastic Sisters of Battle” in one of their video, and then when called on it said “Oh but you had Sisters of Silence it's the same”. So you should be cautious too!
Did they say "plastic sisters of battle" or "plastic sisters" though?
Was there said that "of battle" or was it fans jumping to conclusion?
Guys, arguing with Hybrid about anything Sister-related is a like arguing with a wall: you can bang your head against it all day, but you'll just get a headache. Best to just walk away. Walls cannot follow you.
That way we can get back on topic, like how broken the new Tau Codex is going to be.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Guys, arguing with Hybrid about anything Sister-related is a like arguing with a wall: you can bang your head against it all day, but you'll just get a headache. Best to just walk away. Walls cannot follow you.
That way we can get back on topic, like how broken the new Tau Codex is going to be.
The leaker advising that everyone buy Riptides... It's an ill omen of things to come, as old evils resurface.
I wonder if they'll remove the Nova Reactor penalty from the model, as receiving a Mortal Wound for buffing yourself, while fluffy, has pissed off a lot of fishies.
Perhaps make it a risk vs reward thing, so you roll to see if it works. Like 2+ it works, 1 you suffer a wound. Or 1-2 it doesn't work, 3-4 it works, 5-6 it works but you suffer a wound.
I dunno, overpowering your reactor and causing damage to the suit being represented by causing damage to the suit seems appropriate to me. Something that would only be done if the pilot deems it worth the risk, rather then redlining it all the time.
Grimgold wrote: Because putting it into a book isn't official enough?
Putting one sentence that imply, but doesn't state outright, that all the factions mentioned will get a codex, and putting it in the middle of a book, is not an announcement enough. When you make an announcement, you make it explicit, and you make it stand out.
That's what I tried to convey I wanted when I answered your question about what I wanted. Something explicit, not implicit, and that's put on the forefront, not hidden in the middle of a book.
And yeah I'm being cautious. Because GW literally, explicitly said “Plastic Sisters of Battle” in one of their video, and then when called on it said “Oh but you had Sisters of Silence it's the same”. So you should be cautious too!
Did they say "plastic sisters of battle" or "plastic sisters" though?
Was there said that "of battle" or was it fans jumping to conclusion?
Yes they did say plastic sisters of battle. However that was at the start of....the November or December before plastic celestine was released, and she plus her two Gemini do count as plastic sisters of battle. We got plastic SoB, but it was just a character not the army.
The foolish, hopeful part of me wants to think that comments about plastic sisters of battle messing with us like that, having a clock in the squat reveal video, etc, might mean that they'll ease our pain some time in the relatively near future with a release.
The other part of me is beating that part to death with a chainaxe for daring to dream.
Necrons used to be able to do it - its a bit vague if they can do it now.
As I understand it you need to do something major to go faster than light?
I think the previous codex (a Mattward one IIRC) was a bit vague and confused about the issue, and I don't think it was appreciated how long it would take at sublight speeds to cross between stars. Also necrons could sometimes use parts of the webway through Dolmen gates, but the webway itself kept trying to get rid of them so they were a bit unreliable.
Mind you, Necrons were controlled by C'tan in the codex before that, so anything goes. I am hoping the next randomly determined fluff will give them FTL but with limitations (i.e. still slower on average than warp travel. Possibly fatal to organic matter, maybe uses lots of rare fuel / energy resources.)
I also hope we will get Pariahs back (even if that means the ships taking them can't go FTL). Possibly through cooperation with Stygies VIII (I really think they should get something going between them, maybe with some Blood Angels thrown in. Many AdMech would love to become true machines to be closer to their God...)
In the Necron/SoB novel Hammer and Anvil by James Swallow, it's suggested that a Dolmen Gate isn't so much their method of FTL as it is a mass-transit device with terrifying implications. The book never mentioned their actual ship capabilities, as it was planet-bound, but it mentioned that it would allow the Necrons to march into it and appear basically anywhere in the galaxy, Holy Terra included.
The only bit of lore I know of regarding Necron ships post the Ward-dex would be Imperial Armour 12, in which it never mentioned any kind of Dolmen Gate, but talked about the Necron ships moving at frightening speeds with impeccable manoeuvrability. My understanding therefore is that Necrons do have inertialess drives for FTL, but can use the Dolmen Gates for their primary, original purpose: out-manoeuvring the most manoeuvrable race in history.
*ahem*... and I hope this is mentioned in the codex, to stay somewhat on topic kinda.
Oguhmek wrote: I predict a codex + plastic sisters release before the end of the year. They wouldn’t bait like this if there wasn’t something in the pipeline.
The people doing the baiting don't have any information on unannounced rumors, to make sure they don't let some info slip out involuntarily. They stated so.
Oguhmek wrote: I predict a codex + plastic sisters release before the end of the year. They wouldn’t bait like this if there wasn’t something in the pipeline.
The people doing the baiting don't have any information on unannounced rumors, to make sure they don't let some info slip out involuntarily. They stated so.
This is actually false. During the 24 hr40k stream, one of the commentators (Nick Bayton IIRC) let slip some comments about Slaanesh and the "gorgeous models" before realizing that he made an uhoh.
Kanluwen wrote: This is actually false. During the 24 hr40k stream, one of the commentators (Nick Bayton IIRC) let slip some comments about Slaanesh and the "gorgeous models" before realizing that he made an uhoh.
Oh. Maybe it's just some of them, or maybe they just lied so people would stop trying to fish for information on the Facebook comment section .
tneva82 wrote: Hmm interesting. So you don't consider celestine sisters of battle. What she is then?
But that's not the response they gave, is it. They didn't say "hey, we released Celestine", they claimed they never said "of battle" at all and were talking about the Sisters of Silence reboxing for sale outside of Prospero.
Even if they had responded with "muh Celestine tho", it would still be a colossal and unnecessary troll, because only a complete moron would expect that their company could hint that a long-neglected range was going to finally be given some attention and fans of that range wouldn't expect it to be given the attention it needed and would then be annoyed when instead it got a token character release. Initially only as part of a boxed set with other factions, no less.
Which is why I maintain "troll marketing" is counter productive nonsense. It's only a funny in-joke between you and the fans you're trolling if you pitch it absolutely perfectly and meet the expectations you create, if you fail in either regard then it stops being a joke with those fans and becomes a joke at their expense - getting the portion of your customers who're arseholes at heart to laugh at the group of customers you were taking the piss out of doesn't make either the arseholes or the subjects of the joke more likely to buy things.
Crazyterran wrote: I suspect we'll see KDK/World Eaters whenever they are getting ready to release Angron. Either will make sense for Angron, since Angron is pretty firmly team Khorne, rather than mostly his own thing like Kharn.
That makes no sense. Khorne Daemonkin are a religious cult worshipping Bloothirsters as deities. That was why Kharn, Karanak and a few other, less-than-religious guys weren't in the codex. I doubt Angron would've found the faith and been grovelling at the feet of Bloodthirsters 10,000 years later.
If they absolutely have to dumb down everything Chaos in 40K 8th with Heresy-references, they probably should include some Khorne-only Word Bearer guys like the Sanctified in KDK, but certainly no World Eater stuff. Overall, I'd certainly prefer KDK, Crimson Slaughter, etc.. to remain Heresy-free, no Heresy-characters, no VotlW, etc..
Crazyterran wrote: I suspect we'll see KDK/World Eaters whenever they are getting ready to release Angron. Either will make sense for Angron, since Angron is pretty firmly team Khorne, rather than mostly his own thing like Kharn.
That makes no sense. Khorne Daemonkin are a religious cult worshipping Bloothirsters as deities. That was why Kharn, Karanak and a few other, less-than-religious guys weren't in the codex. I doubt Angron would've found the faith and been grovelling at the feet of Bloodthirsters 10,000 years later.
Given the last time he was given stats he had an entire bodyguard of Bloodthirsters, I really doubt that as well.
Seems like it'd work fine for KDK if you establish that Angron is one of the entities being worshipped.
But as ZebioLizard said, what we'll get is Codex: World Eaters -- possibly with some kind of evolution of Blood Tithe. And I expect that the fluff will see Kharn returning to the fold somewhat and he'll therefore be in the codex. Note that this has happened with both Ahriman and Typhus.
BrookM wrote: I'm surprised that both Ahriman and Typhus returned to their parent legions, as both were seen as outlaws / rogue elements.
Isn't Khârn an outcast due to his breaking of two Legions?
Breaking of his own legion. Basically he had the flipout to end all flipouts, butchering a bunch of his own guys. The WE turned on each other and then fragmented into smaller warbands and ceased to be a functioning legion.
So the narrative for the codex will likely be a return of the prodigal son thing, with the reforming of the WE legion under Angron another sign that End Times have truly arrived, etc.
Basically the narrative for all these legions is evolving to allow for all of the affiliated units to be captured in a single codex. I'm sure there are folks upset by this, but to me it only makes sense. *shrug*
The world eaters reforming into a legion seems a bit unlikely, It's not like Angron ever wanted to lead a legion in the first place, and what's left of Kharns brain after millenia of the nails cooking his noodle probably isn't capable of the detachment necessary to effectively lead a legion ethier. I think it's more likely they could be the exception to the legion per god thing, and instead of getting codex world eaters, we get codex khorne daemonkin and friends.
Angron clearly DOES want to reform and lead his legion, as seen in the lore for the First War for Armageddon where he successfully gathers the legion together with the Khorne Daemon legions to invade the planet. It was temporary but he WOULD like his legion to at least be able to attack a common foe without killing themselves.
...In this case, the unity of the powers of Chaos was triggered by the arrival of the Space Hulk Devourer of Stars around a Daemon World within the Eye of Terror that was controlled by the Daemon Prince and former Primarch Angron and his World Eaters Traitor Legion. Angron had spent much of the last 10 millennia attempting to restore some level of unity amongst the divided warbands of what had once been his XII Legion of Space Marines. The World Eaters' dedication to the Blood God Khorne during the Horus Heresy had reduced them for much of that time into a fractious force of Khornate Berserkers just as likely to kill each other as their true foes. The emergence of the Devourer of Stars into orbit around Angron's Daemon World provided just the opportunity he had been looking for to recreate some semblance of common purpose for his scattered Legion. The Space Hulk proved sufficiently large enough to carry huge numbers of Chaotic troops but only on an erratic course into realspace. This is how the Forces of Chaos unexpectedly emerged from the Warp aboard the Space Hulk in the Armageddon System in 444.M41.
BrookM wrote: I'm surprised that both Ahriman and Typhus returned to their parent legions, as both were seen as outlaws / rogue elements.
Isn't Khârn an outcast due to his breaking of two Legions?
He's not an outcast as there's nothing to be an outcast from - the WE legion doesn't exist in any recognisable form. You have a series of fractured warbands which are descended from the WE legion, but there's no central command structure to put a proper military organisation in place.
Kharn is more of a figure of legend than anything else - all Berzerkers would look up to him as a figure of aspiration[though this would mean they aspire to kill him and take his place, as is the behaviour of CSM] and follow him, though this would manifest as following in his wake rather than following his command.
Scarey Nerd wrote: Are we expecting to hear the next codex today or tomorrow, alongside T'au preorders, or will it not be until next weekend?
Tau preorder is the 10th. We might know which is next if it goes for preorder the following week, otherwise we probably won’t know until the Sunday before it goes for preorder.
We won't know which codex is next until they make their weekly Sunday announcement as to what's going on preorder at the end of the week and that codex is listed.
Also note, Codex T'au is not on preorder this week.
BrookM wrote: I'm surprised that both Ahriman and Typhus returned to their parent legions, as both were seen as outlaws / rogue elements.
Isn't Khârn an outcast due to his breaking of two Legions?
Breaking of his own legion. Basically he had the flipout to end all flipouts, butchering a bunch of his own guys. The WE turned on each other and then fragmented into smaller warbands and ceased to be a functioning legion.
So the narrative for the codex will likely be a return of the prodigal son thing, with the reforming of the WE legion under Angron another sign that End Times have truly arrived, etc.
Basically the narrative for all these legions is evolving to allow for all of the affiliated units to be captured in a single codex. I'm sure there are folks upset by this, but to me it only makes sense. *shrug*
I mean, it's not illogical, but is it necessary? I don't ever recall feeling a need for stuff to be all neatly roped together in an "official" narrative just because they shared a codex, as long as they were mechanically able to interact and had some evident connection to the theme of the book that was enough, and doing things this way really seems to be leading to "Small World Syndrome" where everything important happening everywhere in the galaxy features the same dozen or so characters. "This book has all the Khorne-aligned Marine stuff in it, use it how you like" is perfectly sufficient IMO. But I suspect the disconnect with GW's modern direction is that last bit there, they've moved away from providing a setting for us to do what we want with in favour of doling out a storyline that you either participate in or make do with nothing.
Togusa wrote: I hope the new Tau Codex gives riptides 20 wounds @ T8.
And I hope stealth suits get -2 to incoming shots.
I certainly hope not! Riptides should be decently durable so as to not be considered a glass cannon but they shouldn't be as tough as a Monolith. Sorry, but no.
BrookM wrote: I'm surprised that both Ahriman and Typhus returned to their parent legions, as both were seen as outlaws / rogue elements.
Isn't Khârn an outcast due to his breaking of two Legions?
Breaking of his own legion. Basically he had the flipout to end all flipouts, butchering a bunch of his own guys. The WE turned on each other and then fragmented into smaller warbands and ceased to be a functioning legion.
So the narrative for the codex will likely be a return of the prodigal son thing, with the reforming of the WE legion under Angron another sign that End Times have truly arrived, etc.
Basically the narrative for all these legions is evolving to allow for all of the affiliated units to be captured in a single codex. I'm sure there are folks upset by this, but to me it only makes sense. *shrug*
I mean, it's not illogical, but is it necessary? I don't ever recall feeling a need for stuff to be all neatly roped together in an "official" narrative just because they shared a codex, as long as they were mechanically able to interact and had some evident connection to the theme of the book that was enough, and doing things this way really seems to be leading to "Small World Syndrome" where everything important happening everywhere in the galaxy features the same dozen or so characters. "This book has all the Khorne-aligned Marine stuff in it, use it how you like" is perfectly sufficient IMO. But I suspect the disconnect with GW's modern direction is that last bit there, they've moved away from providing a setting for us to do what we want with in favour of doling out a storyline that you either participate in or make do with nothing.
Nothing's necessary. But I think that it's simply dumb to keep Kharn separate from a Khorne book because of narrative nuance. People identify Kharn with Khorne...and they're supposed to, because GW intentionally named the character that way. What's more, 'Where's Kharn?" was a common refrain when the old KDK book was released.
This time around they'll give players what they want, and a more intuitive approach to content organization.
Togusa wrote: I hope the new Tau Codex gives riptides 20 wounds @ T8.
And I hope stealth suits get -2 to incoming shots.
I certainly hope not! Riptides should be decently durable so as to not be considered a glass cannon but they shouldn't be as tough as a Monolith. Sorry, but no.
My attempt at levity and sarcasm failed. :(
Automatically Appended Next Post: I had an idea for a change to Marker Lights.
"A unit with marker lights may forego shooting during their shooting phase in order to mark a target. This unit may not move or charge. A unit marked by a marker light has failed shooting attacks made against it of a 1 rerolled, and seeker missiles hit on normal ballistic skill when targeting marked unit."
Fluffy, and accurate to what a laser designator actually does.
Just put Kharn in the Khorne Codex and have his lore saying that he don't follow their religious principles but hes the damm Kharn and he goes where is carnage.
BrookM wrote: I'm surprised that both Ahriman and Typhus returned to their parent legions, as both were seen as outlaws / rogue elements.
Isn't Khârn an outcast due to his breaking of two Legions?
Breaking of his own legion. Basically he had the flipout to end all flipouts, butchering a bunch of his own guys. The WE turned on each other and then fragmented into smaller warbands and ceased to be a functioning legion.
So the narrative for the codex will likely be a return of the prodigal son thing, with the reforming of the WE legion under Angron another sign that End Times have truly arrived, etc.
Basically the narrative for all these legions is evolving to allow for all of the affiliated units to be captured in a single codex. I'm sure there are folks upset by this, but to me it only makes sense. *shrug*
I mean, it's not illogical, but is it necessary? I don't ever recall feeling a need for stuff to be all neatly roped together in an "official" narrative just because they shared a codex, as long as they were mechanically able to interact and had some evident connection to the theme of the book that was enough, and doing things this way really seems to be leading to "Small World Syndrome" where everything important happening everywhere in the galaxy features the same dozen or so characters. "This book has all the Khorne-aligned Marine stuff in it, use it how you like" is perfectly sufficient IMO. But I suspect the disconnect with GW's modern direction is that last bit there, they've moved away from providing a setting for us to do what we want with in favour of doling out a storyline that you either participate in or make do with nothing.
Nothing's necessary. But I think that it's simply dumb to keep Kharn separate from a Khorne book because of narrative nuance. People identify Kharn with Khorne...and they're supposed to, because GW intentionally named the character that way. What's more, 'Where's Kharn?" was a common refrain when the old KDK book was released.
This time around they'll give players what they want, and a more intuitive approach to content organization.
Where did I say they shouldn't put Kharn in the Khorne book? I said they don't need to write some big convoluted storyline to do so, he's already aligned with Khorne, so IMO just put him in the book and let players decide what the story reason for him being in their army is.
AdmiralHalsey wrote: Unthinkable people might want models released for their factions, eh?
They're constantly being obnoxious about it though. Nobody is allowed to complain about their model status whatsoever, even Chaos Marines with their ghastly Havocs or Eldar with their Finecrap Aspect Warriors, as long as Sisters players are posting. Even I have experienced this, who was told to shut it about wanting different Flayed Ones instead of the current...things.
AdmiralHalsey wrote: Unthinkable people might want models released for their factions, eh?
They're constantly being obnoxious about it though. Nobody is allowed to complain about their model status whatsoever, even Chaos Marines with their ghastly Havocs or Eldar with their Finecrap Aspect Warriors, as long as Sisters players are posting. Even I have experienced this, who was told to shut it about wanting different Flayed Ones instead of the current...things.
I have experienced this as well. I once said I'd love to have plastic Lictors, I might have also mentioned plastic Fireblade. And I was shouted down by three sisters fans to the point that I left the facebook group.
BrookM wrote: I'm surprised that both Ahriman and Typhus returned to their parent legions, as both were seen as outlaws / rogue elements.
When you think about it, all the Legion-specific special Characters are/were renegades.
Typhus and Morty hate each other.
Ahriman and Magnus hate each other.
Kharn is responsible for his legion breaking apart, and I doubt Angron has much love for him.
Fabius basically wants nothing to do with the Emperor's Children.
(Lucius came later)
Form a narrative perspective I think it'd be better to leave them as opposing groups, so that not every army you build has to be in the same mindset. "Oh my Death Guard follow Typhus' example!""My World Eaters are true loyalists and stuck with Angron after the breakup of the legion!", things like that, rather than "I play 1KSons, we do what ever Lord Nipplehorns says.".
Thats the lore of both the TS codex and the DG Codex. Theres the bulk of the legions that follow the primarch (This is more prevalent in DG because they are one of the more organized Chaos Legions), then theres a big group that follow Ahriman/Typhus (In the case of Typhus they are inside the organization of the Death Guard but they act much more independently), and then theres other smaller groups that are more like "renegade" warbands, or follow other Chaos Lords in mixed Chaos groups, etc...
I don't see why you are asuming that is gonna change in a future World Eaters Codex. Youll have the bulk that follow Argron, a bunch that follow Kharn, and then groups that do whatever they want.
To be fair to Ahriman he got cast out because Magnus was really, really pissed over everyone becoming dust. When Magnus forgave Ahriman and called him back, there was no real issue.
Kharn just went his separate way. Typhus is the one that actively rebelled and honestly dislikes the way Typhus does things, Fabius just doesn't really care about chaos as a whole and just wants to do his fancy experiments (Lucius would probably agree to come back to Fulgrim though, Lucius just wants to continue fighting the best of the best)
GSC is one of the few factions that got significant changes in Chapter Approved so I'd take that as a hint they're not coming any time soon. They are coming though.
1) reroll wounds 1 against Monster or Vehicles
2) your shooting phase, pick a visible enemy unit to your warlord, each time any friendly <sept> unit within 6' of warlord makes a wound roll of 6, add 1 to AP of attack
3) Add 6 to Advance instead of rolling dice.
4) If warlord within 12' of enemy unit at start of shooting phase, you can reroll hits for your warlord until end of phase.
5) reroll hits for warlord, if they have not moved this turn. if they move for any reason, they lose the trait until the start of next turn.
6) warlord can advance and shoot as if he hasn't advanced.
Sept Warlord Traits
Tau : 5+ save against Mortal Wounds
Vior'la : If warlord has master of war, Volley Fire or Failure is Not an Option ability, the range increased to 9". additionally, if your army is battleforged, +1 command pt
Dal'yth: While within 12" of Warlord, friendly Kroot and Vespid units gain For The Greater Good ability
Sa'cea: Friendly Sa'cea unit within 6" of warlord, reduce the number of model that flee as a result of morale by 1
Bork'an: For each hit roll made by warlord, +1 to wound for that hit
Farsight: Warlord can perform 6" heroic intervention. Additionally, if your warlord has charged , was charged or heroic intervened, until end of phase, can reroll hits.
Sept Traits:
Tau: Overwatch on a 5 regardless of firing model BS or any modifiers.
Vior'la : Treats all RF weapons as assault weapons (RF 1 treated as assault 1). Additionally, no penalty to advance and fire the assault weapons.
Dal'yth : Unit that does not manta strike, move , fall back, charge , pile in or consolidate this turn may claim the benefit of cover even while in the open.
Sa'cea: +1 LD, Additionally, in shooting phase, you can reroll a single failed hit roll for each Sa'cea unit
Bork'an : Add 6" to maximum range of any Rapid Fire and Heavy weapon they are armed with.
Farsight: Reroll wounds of 1 against models that are within 6' of the firing (farsight) model.
I thought previous leaks said that the markerlight table wasn't changing?
I'd be curious to know if Jump-shoot-jump or another similar rule came as a strategem for Jetpack units
Tastyfish wrote: I thought previous leaks said that the markerlight table wasn't changing?
I'd be curious to know if Jump-shoot-jump or another similar rule came as a strategem for Jetpack units
To be honest the rules for "Fly" are the Jump-shoot-Jump of 40k edition, but I can see a stratagem for that, yeah.
Togusa wrote: I hope the new Tau Codex gives riptides 20 wounds @ T8.
And I hope stealth suits get -2 to incoming shots.
That would be silly, the Riptide isn't a Stormsurge. It should be a high risk, high reward unit that is slightly squishy but mobile and has a lot of firepower if you're willing to take the mortal wound from the Nova Reactor for it.
Togusa wrote: I hope the new Tau Codex gives riptides 20 wounds @ T8.
And I hope stealth suits get -2 to incoming shots.
That would be silly, the Riptide isn't a Stormsurge. It should be a high risk, high reward unit that is slightly squishy but mobile and has a lot of firepower if you're willing to take the mortal wound from the Nova Reactor for it.
Actually if you go by fluff, the riptide is an attention grabbing mobile bullet sponge with adequate firepower. It's designed to attract hits and tank them, and contribute enough firepower to take a toll by still being alive to shoot later on rather than glass cannon fire and die.
Yes...so? I don't see your point.
You scoffed at the idea of a model having T8 20W because Mortarion doesn't.
I point out there is another model that already has that who's not Mortarion, indicating that there's a precedence.
I don't see the relevance in its inflated points value.
Yes...so? I don't see your point.
You scoffed at the idea of a model having T8 20W because Mortarion doesn't.
I point out there is another model that already has that who's not Mortarion, indicating that there's a precedence.
I don't see the relevance in its inflated points value.
My problem is that the Monolith is a gigantic regenerating necrodemis made structure compared to a much smaller suit for a being that can be shot through it. But that's more of my issue rather then trying to comprehend what he was trying to say.
I think I was pointing out that a much more expensive daemon primarch doesn’t have those stats but the original poster was hoping that a riptide that has had a points reduction would have them with no justification.
I find it hilarious that you guys have had this entire conversation that actually somewhat belittles one of your fellow forum posters.
You have literally laughed at someone (not with) for making a joke, you could have read 4 posts later on where he said it was an attempt at humour but NAAAAAH let's go off topic and discuss what an idiot you think someone is.
The Farsight Trait is very underwhelming. It works for breachers and crisis suits with flamers... and thats it. The range is too short.
They could at least have given them +2 WS for Farsight suits and firecaste warriors, like they did with Catachan and their +1S. Is not like it would have done anything, they are Tau, but is a little bone.
Galas wrote: The Farsight Trait is very underwhelming. It works for breachers and crisis suits with flamers... and thats it. The range is too short.
They could at least have given them +2 WS for Farsight suits and firecaste warriors, like they did with Catachan and their +1S. Is not like it would have done anything, they are Tau, but is a little bone.
I like the theory of it; it's supposed to make you want to play your army in an unusual way. It's supposed to make you want to get into close quarters, making the range longer would defeat the purpose.
Galas wrote: The Farsight Trait is very underwhelming. It works for breachers and crisis suits with flamers... and thats it. The range is too short.
They could at least have given them +2 WS for Farsight suits and firecaste warriors, like they did with Catachan and their +1S. Is not like it would have done anything, they are Tau, but is a little bone.
I like the theory of it; it's supposed to make you want to play your army in an unusual way. It's supposed to make you want to get into close quarters, making the range longer would defeat the purpose.
Oh, I can totally understand the intent of the trait. Maybe I'm underselling it. Farsight is the "Suit" faction, so probably this trait is designed to spam a ton of stealth and crisis suits, get close, shoot, and if you are charged then just fall back and shoot again because they can Fly.
I really want to know to what units this traits apply.
-52 points for every one of my HRR Broadsides is one more squad of Firewarriors. I'm totally happy with that. Just by that I have gain 156 more points for my list, because I normally run 3 HRR Broadsides with Missile Pods.
Bor'kan is really, really interesting. +6" to RF and Heavy weapons are quite good for T'au. Pulse Rifles double-tapping at 18", yummy!
Supposing only INFANTRY, DRONES and BATTLESUITS will get <SEPT> bonuses, we get these results:
- Ghostkeel's CIR up to 30". That's pretty amazing!
- Riptide's HBC up to 42"
- Broadside's HYMP up to 42" and SMS to 36". Outstanding!
- Pathfinder's Ion and Rail Rifles at 36"
- Kroot Rifles at 30"
- MARKERLIGHTS AT 40"!!!
- Crisis' Plasma Rifle at 30" (but I hope its profile changes)
- Y'vahra's IDC up to 18" and PPF to 14" (useable after Escape Thrust!)
- Ta'unar's Fusion Erradicator up to 30"
Also, Kel'shan is missing. Looks like we'll have to wait FW to release it...
Vector Strike wrote: Bor'kan is really, really interesting. +6" to RF and Heavy weapons are quite good for T'au. Pulse Rifles double-tapping at 18", yummy!
Supposing only INFANTRY, DRONES and BATTLESUITS will get <SEPT> bonuses, we get these results:
- Ghostkeel's CIR up to 30". That's pretty amazing!
- Riptide's HBC up to 42"
- Broadside's HYMP up to 42" and SMS to 36". Outstanding!
- Pathfinder's Ion and Rail Rifles at 36"
- Kroot Rifles at 30"
- MARKERLIGHTS AT 40"!!!
- Crisis' Plasma Rifle at 30" (but I hope its profile changes)
- Y'vahra's IDC up to 18" and PPF to 14" (useable after Escape Thrust!)
- Ta'unar's Fusion Erradicator up to 30"
Also, Kel'shan is missing. Looks like we'll have to wait FW to release it...
They're not Space Marines, so Tau will get their traits on everything.
Competitive Tau players from 7th are going to be over the moon, Broadsides and Riptides dropping anywhere from 50 to 70+ points each depending on weapon load-out is fantastic. Bor'kan is tailor made for those units too, makes hiding from them in the early turns almost impossible. Hopefully Crisis Suits get a decent drop too.
A pressing question is what, if any, changes happened to the Ion Accelerator profile? Even with the gargantuan points drops the Heavy Burst Cannon is still looking like the better deal at the moment, especially based off that earlier leak from Haechi.
Early days but if the 1 Commander per detachment thing is accurate, I can see the default Tau build being 2 Battalions + Spearhead/Outrider/Vanguard or 1 Battalion + 2 Spearheads/Outriders/Vanguards with Super Heavy Auxiliaries thrown in if the Stormsurge is any good. Again, early days, but given that Commanders are auto-takes so you want the max 3 in an army and the other HQ slots are easily filled with Ethereals/Fireblades/etc and Tau Troops are cheap and fairly efficient there's almost no reason not to go for all those CP. Of course there's going to be way more changes than we can judge right now so will wait and see but that's my feeling so far.
Most settings give you a maximum of three detachments to work with, so you can only ever take at most three commanders in your army. It's a pretty big nerf but is probably better than the severe weakening the commander would have needed if there was no limitation.
I like that Sacea basically gets the Salamanders bonus but something extra on top of it as, ya know, the benefit alone seemed like it would be pretty powerful huh? Why would you need any bonus?
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I like that Sacea basically gets the Salamanders bonus but something extra on top of it as, ya know, the benefit alone seemed like it would be pretty powerful huh? Why would you need any bonus?
If Hikaru's info is complete, they only got half of the Salamanders trait -- and the weaker half at that for most units -- and then the +1 Ld. You'd definitely prefer the full Salamanders trait.
I mean it’s not hard to spam them as you’ll still want to take multiple detachments to get cp and still need those ethereal and fire blades to buff your units.
It’s just gw’s odd mentality to nerf something in that way but don’t do the same restriction on their other armies. I played a Nids guy in February who took 5 flying hive tyrants but that is “ok” within gws rules whereas tau doing the same must be nerfed asap!
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I like that Sacea basically gets the Salamanders bonus but something extra on top of it as, ya know, the benefit alone seemed like it would be pretty powerful huh? Why would you need any bonus?
Because the Sacea bonus is a "to hit", buth with Salamanders you can rerroll a "To wound" or even a "Damage" roll.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I like that Sacea basically gets the Salamanders bonus but something extra on top of it as, ya know, the benefit alone seemed like it would be pretty powerful huh? Why would you need any bonus?
Because the Sacea bonus is a "to hit", buth with Salamanders you can rerroll a "To wound" or even a "Damage" roll.
I said basically, and no you don't get a reroll on Damage with Salamanders.
Guyver 3 wrote: I mean it’s not hard to spam them as you’ll still want to take multiple detachments to get cp and still need those ethereal and fire blades to buff your units.
It’s just gw’s odd mentality to nerf something in that way but don’t do the same restriction on their other armies. I played a Nids guy in February who took 5 flying hive tyrants but that is “ok” within gws rules whereas tau doing the same must be nerfed asap!
It's pretty easy to understand why they might do this, though. Unlike Hive Tyrants, Commanders directly compete with another unit that does almost exactly the same thing and should really be more common. Commanders are just shootier Crisis Suits with a once-a-game buff. You take them for exactly the same reasons that you'd take Crisis Suits, but they're a lot better at the job because they're BS2+, they have an extra gun, and they're characters. Either you nerf Commanders or buff Crisis Suits to the point where you actually prefer taking Crisis Suits for pure shooting (which is hard to do since they pay the same prices for guns and character protection is so valuable) or you place some other limit on Commanders.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I like that Sacea basically gets the Salamanders bonus but something extra on top of it as, ya know, the benefit alone seemed like it would be pretty powerful huh? Why would you need any bonus?
Because the Sacea bonus is a "to hit", buth with Salamanders you can rerroll a "To wound" or even a "Damage" roll.
I said basically, and no you don't get a reroll on Damage with Salamanders.
Oh. I always tought that it give you rerroll to damage. I don't have the vanilla codex. Then yeah, they change half of the Salamander trait for +1 LD. (And the giant benefit of being able to use it with vehicles, most probably, of course)
Guyver 3 wrote: I mean it’s not hard to spam them as you’ll still want to take multiple detachments to get cp and still need those ethereal and fire blades to buff your units.
It’s just gw’s odd mentality to nerf something in that way but don’t do the same restriction on their other armies. I played a Nids guy in February who took 5 flying hive tyrants but that is “ok” within gws rules whereas tau doing the same must be nerfed asap!
Hive Tyrants aren't characters with less than 10 wounds that have little ablative wound bots following them around everywhere.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I like that Sacea basically gets the Salamanders bonus but something extra on top of it as, ya know, the benefit alone seemed like it would be pretty powerful huh? Why would you need any bonus?
Because the Sacea bonus is a "to hit", buth with Salamanders you can rerroll a "To wound" or even a "Damage" roll.
I said basically, and no you don't get a reroll on Damage with Salamanders.
Oh. I always tought that it give you rerroll to damage. I don't have the vanilla codex. Then yeah, they change half of the Salamander trait for +1 LD. (And the giant benefit of being able to use it with vehicles, most probably, of course)
The Salamanders trait allows you to re-roll to hit or to wound, so you trade the to wound re-roll option for +1 leadership.
The Salamanders trait allows you to re-roll to hit or to wound, so you trade the to wound re-roll option for +1 leadership.
Correction: The Salamanders trait allows you to re-roll one to-hit roll and one to-wound roll in the shooting phase (and in the assault phase, although +1 Ld most certainly better for Tau as they don't really want to end up in close combat anyway.)
So to Summarize:
Salamanders:
1 to-hit reroll in the shooting phase.
1 to-wound reroll in the shooting phase.
1 to-hit reroll in the assault phase.
1 to-wound reroll in the assault phase.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I like that Sacea basically gets the Salamanders bonus but something extra on top of it as, ya know, the benefit alone seemed like it would be pretty powerful huh? Why would you need any bonus?
One of the Warlord Traits is the same as one of the Blood Angels ones except Tau get to reroll hits. Because Tau.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I like that Sacea basically gets the Salamanders bonus but something extra on top of it as, ya know, the benefit alone seemed like it would be pretty powerful huh? Why would you need any bonus?
One of the Warlord Traits is the same as one of the Blood Angels ones except Tau get to reroll hits. Because Tau.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I like that Sacea basically gets the Salamanders bonus but something extra on top of it as, ya know, the benefit alone seemed like it would be pretty powerful huh? Why would you need any bonus?
One of the Warlord Traits is the same as one of the Blood Angels ones except Tau get to reroll hits. Because Tau.
I'm just gonna take the positive spin and assume that after releasing several codexes with these "extra heroic intervention length" traits they realized that trait sucks and needs another bonus for anyone to take it.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I like that Sacea basically gets the Salamanders bonus but something extra on top of it as, ya know, the benefit alone seemed like it would be pretty powerful huh? Why would you need any bonus?
One of the Warlord Traits is the same as one of the Blood Angels ones except Tau get to reroll hits. Because Tau.
I'm just gonna take the positive spin and assume that after releasing several codexes with these "extra heroic intervention length" traits they realized that trait sucks and needs another bonus for anyone to take it.
And is not like a Tau Warlord that rerrolls hits in meele can do... can do anything. Unless he is an Ethereal and... yeah. In general Heroic Intervention traits suck.
The reason is probably because of the fact that a Commander heroic interventioning is the last thing you want to do, while a Blood Angel is arguably terrifying in close combat.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I like that Sacea basically gets the Salamanders bonus but something extra on top of it as, ya know, the benefit alone seemed like it would be pretty powerful huh? Why would you need any bonus?
One of the Warlord Traits is the same as one of the Blood Angels ones except Tau get to reroll hits. Because Tau.
I'm just gonna take the positive spin and assume that after releasing several codexes with these "extra heroic intervention length" traits they realized that trait sucks and needs another bonus for anyone to take it.
And is not like a Tau Warlord that rerrolls hits in meele can do... can do anything. Unless he is an Ethereal and... yeah. In general Heroic Intervention traits suck.
...Except this is the Farsight Enclaves warlord trait. Which means you're looking at Farsight or (not confirmed but very likely) a Fusion Blade Commander as the warlord in question.
Vior'la : Treats all RF weapons as assault weapons (RF 1 treated as assault 1). Additionally, no penalty to advance and fire the assault weapons.
This one perplexes me. Wouldn't that mean that one can no longer double tap with pulse rifles? It's not a bad trait, I just can't see any reason to take rapid fire weapons if you can help it, as you will lose out on the short range increase of fire power that the rapid fire rule gives you.
Of course, this probably means fire warriors will make the most use of this, as I don't think they have an assault weapon option.
Vior'la : Treats all RF weapons as assault weapons (RF 1 treated as assault 1). Additionally, no penalty to advance and fire the assault weapons.
This one perplexes me. Wouldn't that mean that one can no longer double tap with pulse rifles? It's not a bad trait, I just can't see any reason to take rapid fire weapons if you can help it, as you will lose out on the short range increase of fire power that the rapid fire rule gives you.
Of course, this probably means fire warriors will make the most use of this, as I don't think they have an assault weapon option.
This is probably meant to be used by fast moving suits. plasma and watnot
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I like that Sacea basically gets the Salamanders bonus but something extra on top of it as, ya know, the benefit alone seemed like it would be pretty powerful huh? Why would you need any bonus?
One of the Warlord Traits is the same as one of the Blood Angels ones except Tau get to reroll hits. Because Tau.
I'm just gonna take the positive spin and assume that after releasing several codexes with these "extra heroic intervention length" traits they realized that trait sucks and needs another bonus for anyone to take it.
And is not like a Tau Warlord that rerrolls hits in meele can do... can do anything. Unless he is an Ethereal and... yeah. In general Heroic Intervention traits suck.
...Except this is the Farsight Enclaves warlord trait. Which means you're looking at Farsight or (not confirmed but very likely) a Fusion Blade Commander as the warlord in question.
The part about rerrolling is useless for Farsight. He already rerrolls hit rols of 1 in the fight phase with 2+WS.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I like that Sacea basically gets the Salamanders bonus but something extra on top of it as, ya know, the benefit alone seemed like it would be pretty powerful huh? Why would you need any bonus?
One of the Warlord Traits is the same as one of the Blood Angels ones except Tau get to reroll hits. Because Tau.
I'm just gonna take the positive spin and assume that after releasing several codexes with these "extra heroic intervention length" traits they realized that trait sucks and needs another bonus for anyone to take it.
And is not like a Tau Warlord that rerrolls hits in meele can do... can do anything. Unless he is an Ethereal and... yeah. In general Heroic Intervention traits suck.
...Except this is the Farsight Enclaves warlord trait. Which means you're looking at Farsight or (not confirmed but very likely) a Fusion Blade Commander as the warlord in question.
The part about rerrolling is useless for Farsight. He already rerrolls hit rols of 1 in the fight phase with 2+WS.
Its possible they may move that rule to the warlord trait though, so I wouldn't call it useless just yet.
So where's that -1 to hit trait people were drooling over?
And gw keeps up with their 8th ed strategy. Up costs in index, people up point level, come codex and massive point drops forcing new models bought as players keep point levels up anyway wondering why armies are so expensive
tneva82 wrote: So where's that -1 to hit trait people were drooling over?
And gw keeps up with their 8th ed strategy. Up costs in index, people up point level, come codex and massive point drops forcing new models bought as players keep point levels up anyway wondering why armies are so expensive
Do you wear a tinfoil hat in real life? It seems like every other post you make is some conspiracy theory.
I am really disappointed. My whole army design was based on a suit-centric army, and now it's moving away from that and destroying the setup for my army.
I also hate all this "re-roll 1's" garbage, it's clunky, lazy and utterly lacks nuance. I feel like every army is becoming the same since everyone can 're roll 1's'
Zelnik wrote: I am really disappointed. My whole army design was based on a suit-centric army, and now it's moving away from that and destroying the setup for my army.
I also hate all this "re-roll 1's" garbage, it's clunky, lazy and utterly lacks nuance. I feel like every army is becoming the same since everyone can 're roll 1's'
Why moving away? The only info we have right now is that the cost of suits went down by quite a bit.
Zelnik wrote: I am really disappointed. My whole army design was based on a suit-centric army, and now it's moving away from that and destroying the setup for my army.
I also hate all this "re-roll 1's" garbage, it's clunky, lazy and utterly lacks nuance. I feel like every army is becoming the same since everyone can 're roll 1's'
Why moving away? The only info we have right now is that the cost of suits went down by quite a bit.[/quote
People love to complain, even if their complaints have no basis in reality.
Zelnik wrote: I also hate all this "re-roll 1's" garbage, it's clunky, lazy and utterly lacks nuance. I feel like every army is becoming the same since everyone can 're roll 1's'
The Era of Auras man. Everything's either "re-roll 1's", a "+1/-1 to hit/wound" or "cause a mortal wound".
Zelnik wrote: I also hate all this "re-roll 1's" garbage, it's clunky, lazy and utterly lacks nuance. I feel like every army is becoming the same since everyone can 're roll 1's'
The Era of Auras man. Everything's either "re-roll 1's", a "+1/-1 to hit/wound" or "cause a mortal wound".
How is it the end of auras? Characters still generate a buff bubble, don't they?
Wow, Dar'lith looks pretty amazing. Having +1 save on everything static in a Tau army is bonkers. Riptides and BS basically at 1+ tanks at 2+
This is one of the ones that normally may not look so amazing until you realize Tau aren't moving several units much if at all.
PS I have to laugh at the dudes in here asking for Necron rumors when the guy is already providing the Tau stuff before we have even had community hint... Calm down boys, the rules will be out soon enough lol.
Zelnik wrote: I also hate all this "re-roll 1's" garbage, it's clunky, lazy and utterly lacks nuance. I feel like every army is becoming the same since everyone can 're roll 1's'
The Era of Auras man. Everything's either "re-roll 1's", a "+1/-1 to hit/wound" or "cause a mortal wound".
How is it the end of auras? Characters still generate a buff bubble, don't they?
Read my post again. A little more carefully this time perhaps. I even bolded it for you.
Zelnik wrote: I also hate all this "re-roll 1's" garbage, it's clunky, lazy and utterly lacks nuance. I feel like every army is becoming the same since everyone can 're roll 1's'
The Era of Auras man. Everything's either "re-roll 1's", a "+1/-1 to hit/wound" or "cause a mortal wound".
How is it the end of auras? Characters still generate a buff bubble, don't they?
Read my post again. A little more carefully this time perhaps. I even bolded it for you.
Zelnik wrote: I also hate all this "re-roll 1's" garbage, it's clunky, lazy and utterly lacks nuance. I feel like every army is becoming the same since everyone can 're roll 1's'
The Era of Auras man. Everything's either "re-roll 1's", a "+1/-1 to hit/wound" or "cause a mortal wound".
Maybe I just lack imagination, but what do you think characters should provide?
Zelnik wrote: I also hate all this "re-roll 1's" garbage, it's clunky, lazy and utterly lacks nuance. I feel like every army is becoming the same since everyone can 're roll 1's'
The Era of Auras man. Everything's either "re-roll 1's", a "+1/-1 to hit/wound" or "cause a mortal wound".
Maybe I just lack imagination, but what do you think characters should provide?
That's the thing, auras do have other effects. Crypteks give a 5+ invul against shooting and +1 to RP Warbosses allows orks to charge after advancing The patriarch allows units to autopass morale
Its true that the reroll 1s, add 1 to hit roll, ect are common, but that's because such rules have a noticeable effect on the game and are a quick and easy buff that's not too strong yet still effective. I'm sure you will see more interesting auras where they are applicable.
Zelnik wrote: I also hate all this "re-roll 1's" garbage, it's clunky, lazy and utterly lacks nuance. I feel like every army is becoming the same since everyone can 're roll 1's'
The Era of Auras man. Everything's either "re-roll 1's", a "+1/-1 to hit/wound" or "cause a mortal wound".
Maybe I just lack imagination, but what do you think characters should provide?
Not the guy but they could provide buffs to weapon types or units within their detachment or specific types of models rather than just auras.
Just for the record I'm fine with auras. It just that there are ways to provide buffs without then all being tied to specific ranged auras.
Zelnik wrote: I also hate all this "re-roll 1's" garbage, it's clunky, lazy and utterly lacks nuance. I feel like every army is becoming the same since everyone can 're roll 1's'
The Era of Auras man. Everything's either "re-roll 1's", a "+1/-1 to hit/wound" or "cause a mortal wound".
Maybe I just lack imagination, but what do you think characters should provide?
Not the guy but they could provide buffs to weapon types or units within their detachment or specific types of models rather than just auras.
Just for the record I'm fine with auras. It just that there are ways to provide buffs without then all being tied to specific ranged auras.
I think Space Marines do that, actually. I vaguely recall a buff that specifically works on bolters.
Might just be a stratagem though.
Stratagems and/or relics and new wargear. Stuff to keep us hyped while we wait for the community people to make it in through the snow to post their usual teasers
Tau seem to severely have the short end of the stick in that regard: Commanders get a once per game buff and otherwise serve as more agressive crisis suits (there goes my support-oriented commander build who's missile launchers were a secondary concern...), Etherials get an array of weak one at a time buffs in the name of flexibility and Fireblades only buff fire warriors.
Zelnik wrote: I also hate all this "re-roll 1's" garbage, it's clunky, lazy and utterly lacks nuance. I feel like every army is becoming the same since everyone can 're roll 1's'
The Era of Auras man. Everything's either "re-roll 1's", a "+1/-1 to hit/wound" or "cause a mortal wound".
Maybe I just lack imagination, but what do you think characters should provide?
Not the guy but they could provide buffs to weapon types or units within their detachment or specific types of models rather than just auras.
Just for the record I'm fine with auras. It just that there are ways to provide buffs without then all being tied to specific ranged auras.
I think Space Marines do that, actually. I vaguely recall a buff that specifically works on bolters.
Might just be a stratagem though.
Bolter Drill. It is a Strategem. And it is pretty crap.
Changes to the costs for crisis suits and thier weapon options. (This is the make / break the codex change IMO) Changes of classic tau units like fire warriors, pathfinders, devilfish and stealth suits. I personally want to know a bit about piranhas too. Stratagems Relics / Signature Systems.
changemod wrote: Tau seem to severely have the short end of the stick in that regard: Commanders get a once per game buff and otherwise serve as more agressive crisis suits (there goes my support-oriented commander build who's missile launchers were a secondary concern...), Etherials get an array of weak one at a time buffs in the name of flexibility and Fireblades only buff fire warriors.
You need to reread Fireblades, I think...
Models in <Sept> units within 6" of any friendly <Sept> Cadre Fireblades may fire an extra shot with pulse pistols, pulse carbines, and pulse rifles when shooting at a target within half the weapon's range.
Gun Drones get <Sept>.
Pathfinders get <Sept>.
Also, a single Ethereal can invoke a single Invocation of the Elements--nothing, as far as I can see, suggesting you can't have multiple Ethereals granting multiple Invocations.
changemod wrote: Tau seem to severely have the short end of the stick in that regard: Commanders get a once per game buff and otherwise serve as more agressive crisis suits (there goes my support-oriented commander build who's missile launchers were a secondary concern...), Etherials get an array of weak one at a time buffs in the name of flexibility and Fireblades only buff fire warriors.
You need to reread Fireblades, I think...
Models in <Sept> units within 6" of any friendly <Sept> Cadre Fireblades may fire an extra shot with pulse pistols, pulse carbines, and pulse rifles when shooting at a target within half the weapon's range.
Gun Drones get <Sept>.
Pathfinders get <Sept>.
Why would you even think to voice that kind of pedantry?
changemod wrote: Tau seem to severely have the short end of the stick in that regard: Commanders get a once per game buff and otherwise serve as more agressive crisis suits (there goes my support-oriented commander build who's missile launchers were a secondary concern...), Etherials get an array of weak one at a time buffs in the name of flexibility and Fireblades only buff fire warriors.
You need to reread Fireblades, I think...
Models in <Sept> units within 6" of any friendly <Sept> Cadre Fireblades may fire an extra shot with pulse pistols, pulse carbines, and pulse rifles when shooting at a target within half the weapon's range.
Gun Drones get <Sept>.
Pathfinders get <Sept>.
Why would you even think to voice that kind of pedantry?
Why would you misrepresent Fireblades as "only buffing Fire Warriors"?
Kanluwen wrote: Why would you misrepresent Fireblades as "only buffing Fire Warriors"?
Because I only took a quick glance back at the index to remind myself what all the generic HQs did.
More importantly, the correct attitude for you to take if it matters to you that much is "I realise this is entirely besides the point you're making, but it actually buffs basic infantry small arms, not specifically fire warrior units."
Kanluwen wrote: Why would you misrepresent Fireblades as "only buffing Fire Warriors"?
Because I only took a quick glance back at the index to remind myself what all the generic HQs did.
More importantly, the correct attitude for you to take if it matters to you that much is "I realise this is entirely besides the point you're making, but it actually buffs basic infantry small arms, not specifically fire warrior units."
And maybe if it's so important for you not to be corrected by others, you should have tried actually reading the text of a rule before you use it as an example of how your army is getting the shaft?
You can think that it was a pedantic argument or whatever, but simply put: I was trying to make it very clear that as it stands right now, the Fireblade buffs more than just Fire Warriors. You can choose to take umbrage with the way I posted if you want to, but that's on you. I suggested you reread the text of it and then pointed out two other units that benefit from the Fireblade's aura.
changemod wrote: Why would you even think to voice that kind of pedantry?
It's not pedantry.
Drones and pathfinders both carry pulse carbines, which fireblades buff.
Well we've now turned this into a full derail instead of a degree of talk on current buffs in the context of not knowing how the new codex handles it, but no, that is absolutely splitting hairs. My point was "Our buff HQs are defined very narrowly", and that the buff is on a firearm category encompassing four units instead of two doesn't change or adress the point.
Just because people disagree with your inchoate points, and can prove their disagreements are based in actual fact, doesn't mean they're derailing the topic.
now need to work out if 5+ overwatch or +6 range is going to be the stronger choice on fire warriors, I’m leaning toward the overwatch though as in my meta that will see more use I think.
I’m leaning toward the reroll 1 dice trait on broadsides
Sigh, gun drones 12 pts is ridiculous, nothing announced so far has been impressive for tau. Sept traits are interesting and match most armies as 2-3 are good and 2-3 are not... IMO. Hoping for Crisis help and some good artifacts and Strategems.
Red Corsair wrote: The stratagems are what everything is really hinging on.
You say that like people don't just use deep strike, extra fight/shoot stratagems and reroll stratagems.
I didn't say that like anything lol.
Not to mention you must be hidden under a rock since there are a metric ton of stratagems outside what your suggesting.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cult of My Boy Blue wrote: Sigh, gun drones 12 pts is ridiculous, nothing announced so far has been impressive for tau. Sept traits are interesting and match most armies as 2-3 are good and 2-3 are not... IMO. Hoping for Crisis help and some good artifacts and Strategems.
Gun drones at 8ppm was entirely stupid. The model flies, shoots 4 s5 shots at 18, has higher toughness then a FW and can auto shield suits. I'd say 12 sounds entirely fair for all that. As you said, stratagems are always huge and I am sure there will be one for drones.
John Prins wrote: I'd like to know if Crisis Suits went to BS3+ or not.
Very unlikely imo. All I am hoping for is a points drop on them and on their weapons. If the rumors of 20 points drop on broadsides and riptides holds for the crisis and they go down even 10 points it helps.
Red Corsair wrote: The stratagems are what everything is really hinging on.
You say that like people don't just use deep strike, extra fight/shoot stratagems and reroll stratagems.
I didn't say that like anything lol.
Not to mention you must be hidden under a rock since there are a metric ton of stratagems outside what your suggesting.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cult of My Boy Blue wrote: Sigh, gun drones 12 pts is ridiculous, nothing announced so far has been impressive for tau. Sept traits are interesting and match most armies as 2-3 are good and 2-3 are not... IMO. Hoping for Crisis help and some good artifacts and Strategems.
Gun drones at 8ppm was entirely stupid. The model flies, shoots 4 s5 shots at 18, has higher toughness then a FW and can auto shield suits. I'd say 12 sounds entirely fair for all that. As you said, stratagems are always huge and I am sure there will be one for drones.
I think the rock hider is yourself. Each codex has a bunch of startagems yes, but only like 3 are used out of each book and it's usually the deep striking, shoot again and fight again ones. Otherwise it's the reroll stratagem from the BRB.
Edit: Sorry, 4. The extra relic one as well sometimes.
Cult of My Boy Blue wrote: Sigh, gun drones 12 pts is ridiculous, nothing announced so far has been impressive for tau. Sept traits are interesting and match most armies as 2-3 are good and 2-3 are not... IMO. Hoping for Crisis help and some good artifacts and Strategems.
Gun drones at 8ppm was entirely stupid. The model flies, shoots 4 s5 shots at 18, has higher toughness then a FW and can auto shield suits. I'd say 12 sounds entirely fair for all that. As you said, stratagems are always huge and I am sure there will be one for drones.
I think the rock hider is yourself. Each codex has a bunch of startagems yes, but only like 3 are used out of each book and it's usually the deep striking, shoot again and fight again ones. Otherwise it's the reroll stratagem from the BRB.
Edit: Sorry, 4. The extra relic one as well sometimes.
Hmm, of the top of my head DG use:
recycle dead models into poxwalkers
prevent 1 unit to be targeted
fire frenzy (which could be your shoot again, okay)
throw grenades with everybody
+1 to wound rolls
make 1 vehicle explode automatically
summon with 4 dice (situational)
heal W3 wounds (situational)
ignore penalty on moving verhicles (situational)
Red Corsair wrote: The stratagems are what everything is really hinging on.
You say that like people don't just use deep strike, extra fight/shoot stratagems and reroll stratagems.
I didn't say that like anything lol.
Not to mention you must be hidden under a rock since there are a metric ton of stratagems outside what your suggesting.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cult of My Boy Blue wrote: Sigh, gun drones 12 pts is ridiculous, nothing announced so far has been impressive for tau. Sept traits are interesting and match most armies as 2-3 are good and 2-3 are not... IMO. Hoping for Crisis help and some good artifacts and Strategems.
Gun drones at 8ppm was entirely stupid. The model flies, shoots 4 s5 shots at 18, has higher toughness then a FW and can auto shield suits. I'd say 12 sounds entirely fair for all that. As you said, stratagems are always huge and I am sure there will be one for drones.
I think the rock hider is yourself. Each codex has a bunch of startagems yes, but only like 3 are used out of each book and it's usually the deep striking, shoot again and fight again ones. Otherwise it's the reroll stratagem from the BRB.
Edit: Sorry, 4. The extra relic one as well sometimes.
You couldn't be more wrong even if you tried. Stratagems are what in 8th define a Codex, and what makes or broke a competitive army.
Red Corsair wrote: The stratagems are what everything is really hinging on.
You say that like people don't just use deep strike, extra fight/shoot stratagems and reroll stratagems.
I didn't say that like anything lol.
Not to mention you must be hidden under a rock since there are a metric ton of stratagems outside what your suggesting.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cult of My Boy Blue wrote: Sigh, gun drones 12 pts is ridiculous, nothing announced so far has been impressive for tau. Sept traits are interesting and match most armies as 2-3 are good and 2-3 are not... IMO. Hoping for Crisis help and some good artifacts and Strategems.
Gun drones at 8ppm was entirely stupid. The model flies, shoots 4 s5 shots at 18, has higher toughness then a FW and can auto shield suits. I'd say 12 sounds entirely fair for all that. As you said, stratagems are always huge and I am sure there will be one for drones.
I think the rock hider is yourself. Each codex has a bunch of startagems yes, but only like 3 are used out of each book and it's usually the deep striking, shoot again and fight again ones. Otherwise it's the reroll stratagem from the BRB.
Edit: Sorry, 4. The extra relic one as well sometimes.
LMAO but sorry that's just irritatingly false. Just last few tournies I have been in I have faced more then your suggesting. Against Eldar I have been on the end of evasion, fall back and shoot, seer council, black guardians and the invuln bubble on guardians as well as snap fire against rangers in one game. Meanwhile I am playing Chaos and frequently utilize, spell familer, tide of traitors and veterans of the long war as well as the legion specific ones. Maybe your shallow pond uses next to none of the plethera of stratagems out there but it is not reflective of the greater community. Jesus I forgot about playing death guard and facing pox walkers that count as characters for targeting as well as casualties farming more in addition to plague bombardment and veterans. Your speaking out of your bumb mate.
tneva82 wrote: So where's that -1 to hit trait people were drooling over?
And gw keeps up with their 8th ed strategy. Up costs in index, people up point level, come codex and massive point drops forcing new models bought as players keep point levels up anyway wondering why armies are so expensive
Do you wear a tinfoil hat in real life? It seems like every other post you make is some conspiracy theory.
No need to look at conspiracy theories when gw is good enough to not even pretend they aren't making changes to funnel where purchaces go.
It would be like not believing sun comes from east tomorrow.
tneva82 wrote: No need to look at conspiracy theories when gw is good enough to not even pretend they aren't making changes to funnel where purchaces go.
It would be like not believing sun comes from east tomorrow.
You'd maybe have a point if Primaris rules weren't terrible to begin with and just merely passable after two rounds of buffs.
Unless you suggest GW doesn't want people to buy its newest shiny range?
tneva82 wrote: No need to look at conspiracy theories when gw is good enough to not even pretend they aren't making changes to funnel where purchaces go.
It would be like not believing sun comes from east tomorrow.
You'd maybe have a point if Primaris rules weren't terrible to begin with and just merely passable after two rounds of buffs.
Unless you suggest GW doesn't want people to buy its newest shiny range?
clearly GW knows people will buy new marines anyway so they don't have to try hard! it's the less popular armies GW has to conspiraize with! it perfectly explains why as often as not the best minis in the game are ancient fine cast models and not the valueable expensive new plastic kits not everyone has hundreds of
First and foremost, thank you for sharing with us.
Point changes, if any, to other weapon systems. Did the Missile Pod/Railgun/Rail Rifle get a commiserate reduction in its point cost compared to HYMP and HRR? Are Plasma Rifles the same, stats- and/or points-wise? Burst Cannons?
Did any other models get point cost increases or reductions not covered by changes in weapon costs? Crisis Suits? Bodyguards? Stealth Suits? Stormsurges?
What relics are available, and are their rules now in line with the relic rules of other codexes (i.e. one per character, etc.)?
Any changes to the Markerlight Table?
What what accurate from Haechi's rumors? What was inaccurate?
18 shot 2 damage HBC?
1 Commander per detachment?
Drone Savior Protocols only working on a 2+?
Are Drones exactly the same except for the point increases, or were they given new/better special rules to compensate?
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I like that Sacea basically gets the Salamanders bonus but something extra on top of it as, ya know, the benefit alone seemed like it would be pretty powerful huh? Why would you need any bonus?
One of the Warlord Traits is the same as one of the Blood Angels ones except Tau get to reroll hits. Because Tau.
I'm just gonna take the positive spin and assume that after releasing several codexes with these "extra heroic intervention length" traits they realized that trait sucks and needs another bonus for anyone to take it.
And is not like a Tau Warlord that rerrolls hits in meele can do... can do anything. Unless he is an Ethereal and... yeah. In general Heroic Intervention traits suck.
I hope that trait means we're getting a Fusion Blade weapon option or relic.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I like that Sacea basically gets the Salamanders bonus but something extra on top of it as, ya know, the benefit alone seemed like it would be pretty powerful huh? Why would you need any bonus?
One of the Warlord Traits is the same as one of the Blood Angels ones except Tau get to reroll hits. Because Tau.
I'm just gonna take the positive spin and assume that after releasing several codexes with these "extra heroic intervention length" traits they realized that trait sucks and needs another bonus for anyone to take it.
And is not like a Tau Warlord that rerrolls hits in meele can do... can do anything. Unless he is an Ethereal and... yeah. In general Heroic Intervention traits suck.
I hope that trait means we're getting a Fusion Blade weapon option or relic.
Probably will be; but remember that named characters are locked to their specific <Whatever>'s Warlord Trait.
So Farsight will get some use (shockingly) out of the Farsight Enclaves Warlord Trait. Maybe. Probably not.
John Prins wrote: I'd like to know if Crisis Suits went to BS3+ or not.
Very unlikely imo. All I am hoping for is a points drop on them and on their weapons. If the rumors of 20 points drop on broadsides and riptides holds for the crisis and they go down even 10 points it helps.
I don't know, Crisis Suits have bounced between 3+ and 4+ a lot through various editions. If they get a huge points reduction, then 4+ is fine, but if they just get a small points reduction, 4+ still sucks for the points and you're back to wanting as many Commanders as possible (3 commanders in every army is still Commander spam).
Maybe they'll actually cost weapons based on Ballistic Skill (gasp!).
Are sky rays the same rules as before?
Have seeker missiles changed?
Do sniper drones cause a mortal wound on a 6+ to wound roll
Are gun drones really 12pts per model and if so do they have to target the closest unit still
Im worried that this codex is just an overnerf to gun drones and commanders while fixing none of the massive glaring problems the rest of the tau army list has :/
Gun drones at 12ppm are massively overcosted. Should have either gone to 10ppm or nerfed drone controllers to one unit only or 2-3" range. Uncontrollered gun drones are pretty poor but at 8ppm are a little too cheap. 12 is pretty much pointless though
Bobug wrote: They become a "support element" in that they arent a cost effective unit
Dont get me wrong, theyre too good at 8ppm at the moment
He said "support equipment". Which is what they've always supposed to been.
It was a mistake to ever allow them to be taken as units when they're essentially supposed to be tied to a unit/operator as a kind of 'squad backup'.
