It's certainly possible, but Karga says every other bounty hunter in the guild took that contract too, and IG-11, as a member of that guild, says he's acting on that contract.
Besides that, the client is more than willing to accept a dead target, and says as much when giving Mando the job. It seems more likely to me that a live retrieval was more expensive, and the beskar was more valuable to them as a bargaining chip to that end.
They clearly had no qualms about sending multiple bounty hunters after the same target at once, and I could see them rationalizing that if Mando was good enough to capture the target alive, he'd be good enough to keep him safe for the journey home. Beyond that, the Empire isn't going to care about a bunch of rim rats killing each other over the bounty, even killing the kid in the process may have been preferable to any one party hanging onto him for long enough to think about turning him over to the New Republic.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Going in even further: Alphabet Squadron makes it clear that Luke's famous connection with the Jedi has given rise to any number of Force based cults around the galaxy. It's also entirely possible that they saw dead as better than lost, as if any other interested party in the Outer Rim got word of Grogu and exactly what he is, he could just be scooped up by any of those parties and never be seen again.
That's entirely possible, but it feels like more of a stretch to me than just the Imperials calling for the contract to be killed in the name of expediency or lack of complete knowledge of what they need.
Of course its something they could elaborate on and make a whole storyline out of in the future though.
Another observation. In episode one Mando is told he has to learn to ride the lizard thing, because you have to ride one to get to where he’s going. In episode two he walks all the way back.
AduroT wrote: Another observation. In episode one Mando is told he has to learn to ride the lizard thing, because you have to ride one to get to where he’s going. In episode two he walks all the way back.
Episode 2 is, in general, very weird. It feels like its supposed to be a slap-stick comedy, and Mando suddenly seems incredibly incompetent. The show seems to cycle through that. Episodes where he's normal, episodes where he's _hyper-competent_ (the premiere and the prison ship), episodes where he's incompetent (the frog mom ep where he basically has several layers of crashing and burning, and the follow-up where he gets kicked around by some random fishermen) and then the ones where he's just a passive observer (usually because a Guest Star SW celebrity has arrived, and we all have to watch them).
Mando has trained for a lifetime to fight normal person sized beings. Anything bigger, or smaller, and he doesn’t know how to compensate anymore. But man, if you’re a normal person sized being, he will mess your stuff up something fierce.
AduroT wrote: Mando has trained for a lifetime to fight normal person sized beings. Anything bigger, or smaller, and he doesn’t know how to compensate anymore. But man, if you’re a normal person sized being, he will mess your stuff up something fierce.
Which makes sense since Mandalorian's tend to favor small group tactics against other such groups. The whole soldiers versus warriors, as it were (which goes back to TOR games.)
AduroT wrote: Mando has trained for a lifetime to fight normal person sized beings. Anything bigger, or smaller, and he doesn’t know how to compensate anymore. But man, if you’re a normal person sized being, he will mess your stuff up something fierce.
That’s my takeaway.
We see him being highly skilled in corridors and the like. And in all instances we’ve seen, he knows what to expect (Stormtroopers, Security Droids).
Take him out of that? And he’s not brilliant. Not a disaster as such, just far less effective.
Didn’t the Mando grow up in a series of tunnels and rooms? So he’s like the humanoid equivalent of one of those cats psychologists raised in a room with no vertical lines?
AduroT wrote: Mando has trained for a lifetime to fight normal person sized beings. Anything bigger, or smaller, and he doesn’t know how to compensate anymore. But man, if you’re a normal person sized being, he will mess your stuff up something fierce.
Well, unless you're a fisherman. Fisher-squid. Whatever.
And he did pretty well against the Krayt Dragon.
AduroT wrote: Another observation. In episode one Mando is told he has to learn to ride the lizard thing, because you have to ride one to get to where he’s going. In episode two he walks all the way back.
He also got attacked on the way back, and I think Kuiil assumed he had died because of how long it took to get back - can't we chalk that up to Kuiil underestimating his ability to tackle a dangerous, but not literally insurmountable journey?
AduroT wrote: Another observation. In episode one Mando is told he has to learn to ride the lizard thing, because you have to ride one to get to where he’s going. In episode two he walks all the way back.
He also got attacked on the way back, and I think Kuiil assumed he had died because of how long it took to get back - can't we chalk that up to Kuiil underestimating his ability to tackle a dangerous, but not literally insurmountable journey?
Or just being a jerk and wanting to see the bounty hunter fall off the lizard a few times. The walk back honestly seemed a lot safer than jumping over magic floating rocks with dividing crevasses.
AduroT wrote: Another observation. In episode one Mando is told he has to learn to ride the lizard thing, because you have to ride one to get to where he’s going. In episode two he walks all the way back.
He also got attacked on the way back, and I think Kuiil assumed he had died because of how long it took to get back - can't we chalk that up to Kuiil underestimating his ability to tackle a dangerous, but not literally insurmountable journey?
Or just being a jerk and wanting to see the bounty hunter fall off the lizard a few times. The walk back honestly seemed a lot safer than jumping over magic floating rocks with dividing crevasses.
That whole plain looks like a dried out mud flat, but bigger. Maybe a random storm could whip up at any minute, melting the crevices together and turning the whole place into a quicksandy nightmare?
It kind of does look like a mudflat, but the camera pans down into the 'crevasses' several times. It's a canyon network, but with the 'mudflat' somehow layered on top, and staying there for... Reasons.
Like the ice planet with the not-spiders, it's entirely unclear how it works. Which its Star Wars, not Trek, so it doesn't all need a detailed explanation, but having him walk back (with baby in tow) when riding was sooooo important just magnifies the questions.
Handwaving with 'alien planet, whatever' works in the background (like the giant Dinos on the dead forest planet Ashoka). But not when it's a plot point.
hotsauceman1 wrote: So that girl.
She is called "Omega"
Some think she might be another clone experiment, this time to make a female clone.
Not sure why.
Wouldn't be hard, at least not once you have have cloning tech. Just override the Y with a copy of the X you've already got.
hotsauceman1 wrote: So that girl.
She is called "Omega"
Some think she might be another clone experiment, this time to make a female clone.
Not sure why.
This just started a cascade of weird thoughts for me.
Is Omega a letter in a Star Wars language? Is it the same language that gave us the X, Y, A and B of their respective wings? Don’t they use Aurebesh to write Basic? That’s their alphabet, right? But there are no Aurebesh letters shaped like an X or a B, so how does that work?
So it'll be renegade Clones on the run during the Dark Times of the Jedi purge.
I'm in.
As for Omega... just assume everything is translated for our convenience. Her 'real' name might be the last letter of the Pre-Republic language of Corocaunt or whatever, but Omega works for us.
hotsauceman1 wrote: So that girl.
She is called "Omega"
Some think she might be another clone experiment, this time to make a female clone.
Not sure why.
This just started a cascade of weird thoughts for me.
Is Omega a letter in a Star Wars language? Is it the same language that gave us the X, Y, A and B of their respective wings? Don’t they use Aurebesh to write Basic? That’s their alphabet, right? But there are no Aurebesh letters shaped like an X or a B, so how does that work?
hotsauceman1 wrote: So that girl.
She is called "Omega"
Some think she might be another clone experiment, this time to make a female clone.
Not sure why.
This just started a cascade of weird thoughts for me.
Is Omega a letter in a Star Wars language? Is it the same language that gave us the X, Y, A and B of their respective wings? Don’t they use Aurebesh to write Basic? That’s their alphabet, right? But there are no Aurebesh letters shaped like an X or a B, so how does that work?
This bothers me literally all the time. I've learned to just let it go.
We always knew we were hearing the autotranslated version since Aurebesh appeared in ROTJ. The fanon existence of multiple writing systems does neatly explain the use of alpha-numerical designations, presumably autotranslated to the closest Earthly equivalent.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: We always knew we were hearing the autotranslated version since Aurebesh appeared in ROTJ. The fanon existence of multiple writing systems does neatly explain the use of alpha-numerical designations, presumably autotranslated to the closest Earthly equivalent.
More that we knew that Lucas didn't give a crap about this sort of thing.
Canonically, there was no paper (or paper equivalents), and the 70s 'button-and-switches' tech aesthetic gave no possibility of actual input devices.
Star Wars simply isn't grounded, its an audience facing set for character actions to play out on.
I just assumed they used enslaved, sapient speech-to-text devices. We know they can read. We’ve never seen them write, nor have we seen books. I’m not sure we’ve ever seen any purely visual arts in the setting.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I just assumed they used enslaved, sapient speech-to-text devices. We know they can read. We’ve never seen them write, nor have we seen books. I’m not sure we’ve ever seen any purely visual arts in the setting.
Well they clearly like holo dancing/acrobatics/weird stuff.
Whatever Palpatine is watching here is purely a visual display. Unless there is a subconscious dialogue that we can't perceive being blared to the audience via psionic resonance of some kind.
Which would be interesting to have in Star Wars. All sentient life is psionic on a basic level and computers have been designed which allows people to interact with them partially using these psionic communication methods. Which is why little to no visible interface is required to use them. People can just tell the computers what they want them to do and they'll do it, likewise people know what the computer is telling them on a basic level. Individuals who understand Binary have a deeper intuitive understanding of computers, and droids.
It would also explain why Droids can exist, and why droids can become sentient.
Right, but no still paintings or drawings. No books or newspapers. Everything seems to have either an aural or tactile component.
Automatically Appended Next Post: You edited your post since I saw it. I don’t believe the opera has a psionic component; we hear some weird music that’s part of the experience.
It strikes me that we don’t see movies or hear recordings in Star Wars. All art is performed live, even in the most wretched bars.
Aurebesh is an alphabet, the language itself is called Basic. It's an important distinction because a number of real Earth alphabets exist in the Star Wars universe, and there's an argument to be made that Basic actually is functionally identical to English.
The High Galactic Alphabet is the official reasoning for instances of english lettering appearing in Star Wars (edited out of computer displays in the Special Editions, but still present on cockpit dashboards and holographic signs and billboards never intended to be seen in glorious HD) and has been since I think around Attack of the Clones? X-Wings, Y-Wings are named such because they resemble the letters X and Y of the High Galactic Alphabet, and not Xesh or Yirt (or Vev, which certainly looks like a Y to me!)
I'm pretty sure it's also the actual alphabet used to generate the letters used in droid names (which are apparently also shortened forms of 20+ character long serial numbers) suggesting its engrained into the tech sector to some degree, given that we don't really see droids with aurebesh, tionese or huttese elements in their names, generally.
We also definitely see a lot of holographic entertainment in Star Wars, including video games and recordings of twilek dancers in the films, and we've probably seen some examples of prerecorded music in all eras of the films - and explicitly seen as much in books, novels, etc.
As for other forms of entertainment in Star Wars: the Holonet in particular is a very interesting one to me: it clearly started conceptually as a rough analogue to the internet as it existed in the 70s - extremely difficult to plug in to, very narrow in purpose, and then it developed over the course of the EU (now Legends) to essentially be space Cable-TV, until around the time AotC came out and they decided it was the internet as it existed in the 90s.
Man, i love how rather than theorize about why the possiblity of a female clone exists and what her role would be....
We nerds here at Dakka debate.....letters and words and if star wars has BOOKS
Voss wrote: Tch. I hate that you're probably right.
Me too, but the latter Clone Wars and Rebels seasons were seriously Disney-fied, to the point where you have people using the stun setting on Storm Troopers and flying through warzones using a lightsaber to cut up weapons rather than actually hit the people using them.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Man, i love how rather than theorize about why the possiblity of a female clone exists and what her role would be....
We nerds here at Dakka debate.....letters and words and if star wars has BOOKS
Sure, sure. But in the other hand, who cares if a clone exists? Or is female? Or what role she might have? If we’re starting from scratch on a character, Sci fi concept, and story, why not ditch the franchise baggage altogether?
What would you even have us discuss? “A FEMALE clone??? Wha? But Jango isn’t FEmale! They must have either cloned a different person or tinkered with the Jango genes. So much to work with there we’ll never run out of speculations!” ?
I don't see why a female clone is such a shocking thing. I mean, this is a universe where cloning exists, so they could clone anyone. It's not as if Jango was the only viable candidate.
Captain Joystick wrote: And there's a character in Alphabet Squadron who was a financial columnist before the Empire unpersoned him.
I Do Not Know If This Is A Fib And I’m Not Sure I Want To.
Must read Alphabet Squadron at some point all the same.
You really should.
I don't want to hype it up too much (because I love it and am prone to hyperbole) but I'll at least recommend the audio books for their superb production quality.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I don't see why a female clone is such a shocking thing. I mean, this is a universe where cloning exists, so they could clone anyone. It's not as if Jango was the only viable candidate.
More of, why would they bother? What would her purpose be if true.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I don't see why a female clone is such a shocking thing. I mean, this is a universe where cloning exists, so they could clone anyone. It's not as if Jango was the only viable candidate.
More of, why would they bother? What would her purpose be if true.
1 - Someone paid them (She notably doesn't have to be part of the clone trooper program in any way. Literally anyone in the galaxy could have shown up on Long-Neck-Water-Planet and said 'hey, I want a copy of this'). This seems the most likely reason in a Star Wars cartoon. Someone wanted a clone of a Special Child of Destiny.
2 - Because SCIENCE!
3 - Testing for potential use psychological or physiological characteristics [A can o' worms I don't expect Disney to touch, but given how social and ethically distanced the cloners came across in the films, I can see them doing it, in universe]
4 - Given the show is focused on the 'bad batch,' accidental result. Chromosome flips, extra chromosomes and reduced expression are things that actually happens in actual people. When you start mass producing people, statistically you're going to get outliers as part of your results. Again, I don't expect Disney of all people to spend 10 minutes explaining intersex or nuanced gender expression in a freaking Star Wars cartoon, but the answer to your 'But why?' is a simple 'Normal statistical variation.'
5- <insert reason here> Up to and including 'not actually a clone,' just some Special Kid they pick up along the way.
The writers also probably wanted some variation to include beyond the 'boys club of all the same boy,' and they went with really obvious differences to highlight a new character and break up the monotony.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I don't see why a female clone is such a shocking thing. I mean, this is a universe where cloning exists, so they could clone anyone. It's not as if Jango was the only viable candidate.
Sure, but if they go down the route that she is a female clone of Jango, then its a problem. Because at that point they just made the character female just to be female, and they want a connection to the Clone army made from Jango. IE: Lazy contrived story telling.
It can work if she's a clone of someone else for some other purpose. IE: an original story, vs Star Wars's typical rehashing of the same story over and over again.
And no, its not possible that she is just an accident during the cloning process. If you're cloning a Male sample you're never in a bajillion years going to accidentally make a Female sample. Let alone waste the resources letting that sample grow to maturity. That would be an additional level of lazyness, going to great lengths to try and justify why this Clone is female.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I don't see why a female clone is such a shocking thing. I mean, this is a universe where cloning exists, so they could clone anyone. It's not as if Jango was the only viable candidate.
Sure, but if they go down the route that she is a female clone of Jango, then its a problem. Because at that point they just made the character female just to be female, and they want a connection to the Clone army made from Jango. IE: Lazy contrived story telling.
It can work if she's a clone of someone else for some other purpose. IE: an original story, vs Star Wars's typical rehashing of the same story over and over again.
And no, its not possible that she is just an accident during the cloning process. If you're cloning a Male sample you're never in a bajillion years going to accidentally make a Female sample. Let alone waste the resources letting that sample grow to maturity. That would be an additional level of lazyness, going to great lengths to try and justify why this Clone is female.
Ah. I didn't realize we had an expert on sci-fantasy cloning processes from a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. I guess we'll take your expert testimony on fantasy cloning and writing at face value.
And of course, no one in any scientific endeavor has come across an unexpected result and said 'Let's see how this plays out.' Nope. Got to burn out any variation and stomp out any chance at learning something new. Because that's how progress works.
And no, its not possible that she is just an accident during the cloning process. If you're cloning a Male sample you're never in a bajillion years going to accidentally make a Female sample. Let alone waste the resources letting that sample grow to maturity. That would be an additional level of lazyness, going to great lengths to try and justify why this Clone is female.
And no, its not possible that she is just an accident during the cloning process. If you're cloning a Male sample you're never in a bajillion years going to accidentally make a Female sample. Let alone waste the resources letting that sample grow to maturity. That would be an additional level of lazyness, going to great lengths to try and justify why this Clone is female.
And yet the Bad Batch exists...
Early sample, maybe. That kid being a Jango Clone offshoot wouldn't work under ye-olde Legends, because the Kaminoans were extremely careful about deviations and stuff, being able to edit people to a T. An accidental, blonde, female clone of Jango would have to be done on purpose, under those rules, anyway. Now? Eh. But considering she's already shown to be a better combattant than Clone Troopers already turned me off the show, it's going to be Mando 2.0 with beyond incompetent bad guys.
That kid being a Jango Clone offshoot wouldn't work under ye-olde Legends, because the Kaminoans were extremely careful about deviations and stuff
I'm not following this- the Clone Wars cartoon had story arcs about clones 'deviating' from the baseline. That isn't a new or recent thing that's been part of the show from season...3, with 'defective' clone '99' helping out the cadet clones in the season premiere. (the 'Bad Batch' in the last season (and this new show) is referencing this guy- its why they are 'Clone Force 99'). Iirc, they reference other clones that aren't fit as troopers as well. It just seems to be a normal part of the process.
We don't actually know for sure that Omega is based on the Jango template (in fact, I don't think it's been made explicitly clear yet that she's a clone, technically) and she could just as easily be a part of the Palpatine's immortality project.
And in either case, her gender having been tampered with by the Kaminoans isn't all that outrageous if they're tampering with her template to achieve a goal we don't yet know. If she's part of a long line of experiments its entirely possible she deviates a great deal from her original template in order to refine the end result down to whatever it is they want.
Its also entirely possible that they've leaked Omega this early precisely because they know people would assume she's a modified Jango clone or, on the outside bet, a Palpatine of some kind - whereas she could just as easily turn out to be a clone of Mari San Tekka or something - maybe that bit where she looks out into hyperspace and smiles is literally a link to that?
Still contains the most organic and powerfully done "Vader" moment. This series left me really hopeful for Episode 3.
Hopeful for a Star Wars movie? That's some dangerous stuff right there.
It's not a movie. It's a series of animated shorts. There's definitely other contenders, but in terms of presenting a natural evolution of Anakin to Vader, for my money, nothing is quite as well done as the phantom limb scene when Anakin has his hand ripped off by a monster that has him pinned and in a panic, tries to push it off with his missing limb and succeeds.
Still contains the most organic and powerfully done "Vader" moment. This series left me really hopeful for Episode 3.
Hopeful for a Star Wars movie? That's some dangerous stuff right there.
It's not a movie. It's a series of animated shorts. There's definitely other contenders, but in terms of presenting a natural evolution of Anakin to Vader, for my money, nothing is quite as well done as the phantom limb scene when Anakin has his hand ripped off by a monster that has him pinned and in a panic, tries to push it off with his missing limb and succeeds.
The 'Episode 3' in this case would be Revenge of the Sith.
The Faithful Wookiee (crap), Clone Wars (great) down. Now onto the Ewok movies.
I’ve seen both before, and they’re pretty good for TV movies. Certainly a fondly remembered part of my childhood. I specifically remember finding Caravan in the video shop, as I previously had no idea they even existed. My mind was no less or more than when I’d previously discovered An New Hope had sequels!
Main downside to them is the Ewok costumes look crap compared to those seen in Return of the Jedi.
Tried to watch it on my lunch break today. didn't realize it was an hour and a half. Finishing it tomorrow. Love what I have seen so far. Super cool seeing padawan Kanan show up. Even if it slightly retconned his backstory.
That was.. interesting. Parts of it were pretty uneven though.
The Squad is treated by other clones with both absolute awe and utter contempt. And that doesn't really work. Neither (imo) do their tactics and several tiers of supremacy above their normal brethren. The droid force at the beginning went from super effective to comically inept by the Squad just showing up.
They really pushed hard to match up with movie events and other background pieces, which made a few elements seem really rushed. Including the general evaluation of the clone army, and the Squad in particular. It doesn't feel like it needs to happen at this stage, especially given how absurdly loyal the 'regular' clones are.
The main philosophical thread kind of distracted me (and was reinforced hardcore in the prison cell interaction between Omega and Crosshair). Moral responsibility and culpability is basically just jettisoned, and that feels really weird. Even when the Squad makes decisions that turn out to be moral, are they just doing it because their mutations code them to disobey? They don't focus on that, but its implied several times, just like Wrecker's desire to blow things up.
---
I'm curious to see where it goes (which I can't say about 'the Final Season,' which I got bored with and stopped watching because I didn't gel with the characters), but its more out of curiosity in how they deal with the background and the world building than investment in the show itself (or the characters). I also can't tell if they're going to go for a 'rocks fall, everyone dies' ending. And I'm not sure if I'd prefer it if they did.
I'm kind of disappointed the behavior chips apparently make all the clones utterly unthinking slaves. It would have been interesting to see the clones tackle the ramifications of Order 66 more and the transition of the Republic into the Empire. As it is, all that opportunity for character development and world building was basically killed in its sleep.
I totally see what Voss is talking about on this front. There was a big opportunity here and they squandered it.
Yep. They spent so much of the Clone Wars series developing the clones as people (or at least what we're supposed to take as a representative sample of the clones) and this just brings down the thumb on the big red button marked 'nope.'
I'm now really confused how the post-war clone survivors, farmers, etc that they've shown off in Rebels and other places managed to be independent and functional, let alone active rebels.
I wasn't expecting much, given that The Bad Batch was a pretty dull arc in The Clone Wars, but this was great. Far and above what I thought was coming.
Voss wrote: Even when the Squad makes decisions that turn out to be moral, are they just doing it because their mutations code them to disobey?
I think you've got it backwards.
Their mutations don't make them disobey. Their mutations make the chip in their head less or even completely ineffective.
All Clones were chipped to obey Order 66 without question, and, outside of Order 66, to follow the orders given to them. This is why they all turned instantly, and referred to Palpatine as "My Lord" despite, up until that point, always referring to him as the Chancellor or the Supreme Chancellor. In the case of Crosshair, his mutation meant that the chip was only partially effective. In the case of the others, completely ineffective.
It would appear that both the electrical intrusions (ie. the chip) and the generic loyalty bred into the Clones goes out the window when you are dealing with a group that are said to be genetically defective. I'd probably argue that Clone Trooper 99 had the same or similar issues.
As for post-war Clones, they've had their chips removed. We saw Rex have his removed at the end of Clone Wars Season 7, and we can assume that Gregor and Wolffe had similar operations before they met up with the Ghost crew in Rebels.
So, I really enjoyed this more than i was expecting.
Even if its gonna be The A team in SPAAACCCCEE.
Its been a while since i saw the clone wars arc with these guys in so i may have to go and have a refresher.
Spoiler:
Also, Those Caminoans are definitely up to something with Omega. I've a feeling she is not a genetic defect, but some sort of deliberately altered prototype. Interesting to see where that goes.
My guess at Omega. - I broadly think you're right.
Spoiler:
An attempt by the Kaminoans to below-the-table artificially create a a force sensitive, quite possibly based on the non-Shaak-Ti Jedi that was seen being carted away under the sheet. She's not a clone based of Jango Fett (Because that would upset the loud portion of the internet), but some other jedi.
First and foremost, a New Zealand accent like the rest of the Clones. However, that could be because she’s lived her life around them, so could’ve picked it up.
Then there’s her hair, which I find reminiscent of Palpatine’s design from the rear.
Using Freddie Prinze Jr. to try and voice a little girl is... weird, TBH. I don't think that it works for me.
I had a lot of fun, for the rest, but I kind of would have preferred to see some new characters instead of reusing once again Kanan, Guerrera and Tarkin. It makes the galaxy look much smaller, IMHO.
I know what you mean, but they are movers and shakers, personalities which help give us an idea how involved in whatever comes the Bad Batch will be.
I think it’s just a problem inherent to the media. Any story of any intended ‘historical’ weight is going to have to tie into already established characters, otherwise you risk a disconnect.
And so far, Dave Filoni has proven a dab hand at not making the established characters the core of each tale. Instead, they’re supporting roles, use to fold new stories into the existing narratives.
Kanan felt a wee bit forced, as it didn’t need to be him specifically. Tarkin? Well, we’re likely to see his climb to power, from Admiral to Grand Moff via the Tarkin Doctrine. Saw? Well he’s got a fair amount of ground to cover, and limbs to lose.
So both those characters have stories to be told, rather than just being “do you remember this character? Pepperidge Farms remembers this character” type stuff.
I mean, I'm just not sure those stories need to be told at all, same as I didn't think Solos's story really needed to be told (and actually, the Solo movie is much stronger if he's not Han Solo).
I don't really need to know the whole story of Guerrera or Tarkin to enjoy their movies, and to me they simply feel like checking boxes, at this point.
Im not sure if it was here but someone mentioned how they would never let Omega use a gun because its disney and she is a child.
Well she does, granted it was on stun(Or disable) but it happened.
I was surprised on that.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Im not sure if it was here but someone mentioned how they would never let Omega use a gun because its disney and she is a child.
Well she does, granted it was on stun(Or disable) but it happened.
I was surprised on that.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I wasn't expecting much, given that The Bad Batch was a pretty dull arc in The Clone Wars, but this was great. Far and above what I thought was coming.
Voss wrote: Even when the Squad makes decisions that turn out to be moral, are they just doing it because their mutations code them to disobey?
I think you've got it backwards.
Their mutations don't make them disobey. Their mutations make the chip in their head less or even completely ineffective.
Nope, the mutations also deactivate the chip, but the discussion between Tech and Wrecker (which comes up more than once) is 'does Wrecker blow things up just because his brain structure makes him want to' vs (a badly formed argument because Wrecker is dumb) 'he wants to because he wants to.'
So not only does the chip strip all agency (moral or otherwise) from the regular clones, but the side discussion the show is positing about the Squad also dismisses free will for them, too. Now, as the show unfolds, they may try to prove that isn't actually the case (which... I guess is fine if you think free will discussions aren't inherently a waste of time), but if that's true, they've unfortunately framed it as the 'big dumb guy who smashes is right and the science guy who prefers thinking things through is wrong'
----
As a fun extension, Hunter's tendency to let 'wrong targets' go may not be a moral decision, or a disobey orders thing (which is Crosshair's take, subject to his own programming), but his own brain's genetic rules for hunting- things that aren't droids or their masters simply aren't valid targets. He's not making a moral choice, his brain is just fritzing on hunting down Republic citizens, because that's how his brain chemistry processes information.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Then there’s her hair, which I find reminiscent of Palpatine’s design from the rear.
I hate her hair. I get that its primarily an animation cost-cutting thing, but it looks like someone took an axe to a chunk of wood and tried to carve an ocean wave, but failed.
As for post-war Clones, they've had their chips removed. We saw Rex have his removed at the end of Clone Wars Season 7, and we can assume that Gregor and Wolffe had similar operations before they met up with the Ghost crew in Rebels.
When we first meet them in Rebels, there's a nod to the scars on their heads. If I remember correctly, that was the first real nod towards the idea that Order 66 was hardwired.
I still love the comic scene where Vader and a few Inquisitors are chasing a Jedi. Jedi comments on how shiny and new their trooper escort looks, identifies each of the former Jedi by name, then says Initiate Order 66 along with a Mind Trick.
LunarSol wrote: When we first meet them in Rebels, there's a nod to the scars on their heads. If I remember correctly, that was the first real nod towards the idea that Order 66 was hardwired.
I think that episode came after Season 6 of Rebels where Fives discovered the chips.
LunarSol wrote: When we first meet them in Rebels, there's a nod to the scars on their heads. If I remember correctly, that was the first real nod towards the idea that Order 66 was hardwired.
I think that episode came after Season 6 of Rebels where Fives discovered the chips.
Pretty sure it did.
I thought the Bad Batch Clone Wars episode suffered mostly from being "not what I'm here for." On the other hand, if they hadn't established the characters then, this series might not be so intriguing and I'm interested even with my complaint. Looking back, the Clone Wars episodes weren't bad. Being obvious set up fodder kind of detracts from them imo, but it worked well enough.
Curious where the series goes from here. Bit of a rehash of several other Star Wars plots in a way but it's not like there's much else going on at the moment. Might as well kick back and see what happens. Which isn't high praise now that I say it but what does Disney care, I'm still gonna watch it >.>
Yeah, I finished Clone Wars for the first time recently and season 7 definitely suffered from 'Obvious backdoor pilot season' - First with the Bad Batch, secondly with the smuggling sisters.
Honestly, for me, there was quite a lot of that sort of 'not what I'm here for' from the series.
Whether it was that WAY TOO LONG D-squad story, or it was the Savage Opress story that felt a little less like adding to the world and more 'I get to make my fan fiction OC canon.'
I looked on IMDB and Padme was in 38 episodes, and how many of them were more than a couple of lines?
The show was at its best when it was fleshing out the characters in the movies, even when it was introducing new characters to help guide that.
I mean, no show it without it's bad or weak Arcs.
My favorite thing about Clone wars was it brought a war to Star Wars. Like these where not just personal conflicts like the movies that had the war go on in the background, but this show so many facets of the war.
There is also Nuance to the conflict, such as the separatist are 100% right.
There is deep corruption in the republic.
hotsauceman1 wrote: I mean, no show it without it's bad or weak Arcs.
My favorite thing about Clone wars was it brought a war to Star Wars. Like these where not just personal conflicts like the movies that had the war go on in the background, but this show so many facets of the war.
There is also Nuance to the conflict, such as the separatist are 100% right.
There is deep corruption in the republic.
It also really developed the Galaxy. We saw lots of different worlds, and how the war was fought.
The first couple of seasons aren’t great, I’ll confirm that much. There’s a distinct feeling that Filoni wasn’t allowed free reign, that they were playing it safe as a primarily kid’s show. But when it kicks into gear, it is so, so good.
I mean, look at the initial reception of Ahsoka. She was a pain in the arse, and stuck out like a sore thumb. Yet over her arc, it’s clear that was deliberate. She was just a kid after all. What makes her interesting is her personal development.
The same of Asajj. She could’ve been an exceptionally one dimensional character, but turns into one of the most interesting ones. I’m still pissed off she died for bloody mangst in a novel. She deserved way better treatment. Imagine her and Ahsoka in Rebels, as a sort of “grey area not quite Jedi, not quite Sith” double act.
Savage played his own, again deliberately limited character.
He never had his own agency by design. He’s the perfect example of a Sith apprentice, as in he was crafted for a purpose, was genuinely good at said purpose, but was ultimately disposable. And the fact he was disposed of was seen by the Sith and the viewer as a weakness.
His character is fascinating in its own way. He started out as some who relied on brotherhood to excel. The support and sacrifice of others got him where he went.
After that? Lifted well beyond his station and natural skill (to my mind, a cipher for Force training).
He goes on to help Maul achieve genuine greatness. Yet, when it comes down to it? He dies a genuinely glorious death fighting Palpatine. Soon as that’s done? Maul prostrates himself, rendering his sacrifice moot.
I.......may have thought about this quite a bit. And could be quite easily overthinking,
As I recall, Savage has a lot of problems due to some heavy meddling on the part of George Lucas on the character. He got twisted around a bunch to meet some weird and conflicting demands.
H.B.M.C. wrote: We saw Rex have his removed at the end of Clone Wars Season 7, and we can assume that Gregor and Wolffe had similar operations before they met up with the Ghost crew in Rebels.
Gregor also had some significant head injuries (mentioned in that old Clone wars episode where Meeburr Gascon finds him "hiding out" on that separatist backwater on his "droids" mission.) which might have affected his chip implant, too.
These two first episodes have been very strong, stronger than Rebels or Clone Wars' same window, I've got high hopes for the series and look forward to what they intend to do with Omega as the series progresses, and any window into the early Empire is useful to me.
LunarSol wrote: Nevermind, I'm confusing Opress with Darth Talon.
Lucas wasn't directly involved with any Darth Talon project that saw the light of day, beyond his general level of oversight at Lucasfilm. Seeing the character evidently left an impression on him, as he did apparently like the idea of her being involved in a Darth Maul video game that was in development and, later, seemed to be eyeing the design for a sequel trilogy villain.
Of course to allow her to have been alive during Darth Maul's lifetime or a sequel series set only 30 years after jedi, the Legacy era stuff would have had to be chucked down the memory hole.
Honestly it might have been interesting to see in either case, Talon in Legacy is as much of a nothingburger as Maul was in Phantom Menace, it might have been neat to see her character get fleshed out more.
Darth Talon was "hawt" and that's unfortunately all that can really be said about her. Her roll in the Legacy comic series was to be the hot evil girl and that was her character.
EDIT: Also starting up the new episode. Calling it now we're gonna see Cut, the run away Clone, again
I felt like they were just ticking off a plot point.
Responsible adult happened, attempt fails because plot demands it. Permanent party member status achieved, issue will likely never be raised again.
Reasonable rationale for successfully tagging citizens, though. That actually had more thought put into it than the prequels.
The Bad Batch is really scratching my Star Wars itch. Loving it so far. Also seeing how the stormtrooper corps was created is one of the big questions I’ve wanted to see answered.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Third episode is good. And we’re starting to see some contextualising the shift away from Clones to Spods.
Felt like there was an episode missing between 2 & 3 (which was partly why I was so annoyed by last week's ep): 'We need to ditch her for her own safety. Now that we didn't do that, let's take her into danger!'
Instead of, you know, do the thing she's trained to do (medic) with the expertise & knowledge she clearly has (clones and brain chips). Not like there wasn't an obvious need for that...
Also, where did the Gonk droid come from?
Also, also. Close the hatch on your critical energy cells when you're done. Even if the plot needs to happen.
(put them on the inside of the ship as well... Good job that was a perfectly convenient moon with an atmosphere, let alone trying to swap those out in space.)
Aside accent complaint- I'm not completely sure, but I think the VA for Omega thinks her character's name is Amiga. It gets pretty thick at times with all these clones.
--
Edit- I love the way the Empire officers made a decision based on an (absurdly) brief oral report, and no details or evidence. That's... pretty baffling.
hotsauceman1 wrote: So who could be the clone they want to bring back?
I'm assuming wrecker, a mutation that strong could be useful
The Kaminos? Obviously Omega. [Its kinda in the name]
She was presumably made for a purpose (and they did say they need one because spoilers; that just happen to coincide with the Imperial reappraisal of the whole project). So of them, she was designed, rather being a random mutation that just happens to fit an absurdly specialized role that happens to work out for an ad hoc special forces squad. I doubt the Empire would appreciate (or want) an army of Techs, Hunters or Wreckers, and I'd be shocked if the Kamino folks didn't know that at this point.
Plus... I hope they don't, but they could get real creepy (or just trope-y) about it.
I may have misconstrued something along the way, but my take so far was that none of the Bad Batch were actually accidents, that's just what they think. The show seemed to be presenting the angle that they were deliberate experiments to try out different traits.
As for Omega, the impression I got is that she was a long-game attempt to create a new base-line genetic donor, as they mention that the material from Jango is degrading.
Ak-shu-ally, George DID write a couple of them. Dave Filoni wrote the majority, but he let George have a go at it as well. GL may have "stepped back" from the company, but only as "top dog" - he still has a lot of leeway with "consultancy".
Ak-shu-ally, George DID write a couple of them. Dave Filoni wrote the majority, but he let George have a go at it as well. GL may have "stepped back" from the company, but only as "top dog" - he still has a lot of leeway with "consultancy".
You know, I feel like we're meaning different things when saying "write", then, because Filoni is only credited for writing or co-writing 10 episodes in the whole seven seasons, mostly on season 7. He did direct a bunch, and AFAIK he was the showrunner for most of it, but that's not writing the episodes. The writers do that.
As Lucas is not credited on any episode, I have to assume that by "writing" you mean something else, like defining the main plot or something like that.
Yeah, Lucas created the show, and a lot of the ideas that show up in its run were born from discussions with him, but he didn't actually write any of it.
insaniak wrote: I may have misconstrued something along the way, but my take so far was that none of the Bad Batch were actually accidents, that's just what they think. The show seemed to be presenting the angle that they were deliberate experiments to try out different traits.
Maybe. Its been a long time since I've seen the entire CW show, but I was under the impression that they were accidents. There was an original 'defective' (how they present and talk about him in show) Clone #99, that they're named for. And his problems were presented as not unheard of, and they were more of the same, just with positive military applications.
As for Omega, the impression I got is that she was a long-game attempt to create a new base-line genetic donor, as they mention that the material from Jango is degrading.
Yeah, basically. Without her, it doesn't matter if the Imperials cancel the clone army, it effectively cancels itself. Because yadda yadda degradation reasons. [Seriously, they don't have that mapped and stored? All clone tissue is non viable because technobabble? This seems a stretch, and an unnecessary one since Tarkin and etc. seem intent on cancelling the clone army anyway, which gives everyone plenty of motives without nonsense sci-fantasy justifications.]
Their episode in the final season of CW I think definitely pinned them as accidents who turned out to have advantageous mutations, not purposefully created (that was the explanation I think Obi-Wan gave to Anakin when they were introduced). Then again it's easy enough to toss that out as 'something someone thought' that wasn't actually true.
Voss wrote: [Seriously, they don't have that mapped and stored? All clone tissue is non viable because technobabble? This seems a stretch, and an unnecessary one since Tarkin and etc. seem intent on cancelling the clone army anyway, which gives everyone plenty of motives without nonsense sci-fantasy justifications.]
I mean, this is an issue in actual cloning technologies, hypothetical and otherwise. One of the challenges in human cloning is something like how close our DNA is to the structures that enable cell division or something? Apparently that makes separating genetic material and cloning it extremely hard because its really easy to damage the structure itself just trying to pick it apart. Even the animals we clone tend to come out with lots of defects. That's not an issue when you're just looking through the bits and examining the pieces, but for producing an actual person it's like a big deal. You could extrapolate that to SWs, and that the more they reuse the material they have the more of it they lose simply as a result of basic error in the process. The clones don't provide a solution per se because they're material is based on the original and if that original material takes gradual damage each time it's used then simply going to the clones doesn't get around the damage that's already there.
Most of the problems with the clones in SW have some kind of basis in actual issues faced by cloning science. Maybe the Kaminoans put all their effort into solving other problems and never solved the replication problem. though that seems like a silly oversight but it's fiction so w/e. Maybe it was never an issue before. They'd never cloned the same material millions of times.
I mean, there was probably a reason Jango Fett was kept around long after, to make every batch of clones good. He was there for quite a bit(Boba was 10?)
With him gone, they lost it.
LordofHats wrote:Most of the problems with the clones in SW have some kind of basis in actual issues faced by cloning science. Maybe the Kaminoans put all their effort into solving other problems and never solved the replication problem. though that seems like a silly oversight but it's fiction so w/e. Maybe it was never an issue before
The oversight and never an issue before is really my issue with it. Its been basically magic nonsense cloning, but _now_ its a 'real problem.' But they obviously have other problems on their plate (Tarkin), so the narrative doesn't actually need this hint of realism.
Its just...
Ok, the 'A' story is 'what happens with the Bad Batch?'
The 'B' story is 'when does Tarkin drop his sudden and inevitable betrayal on the Kaminoans?' [It seems really telegraphed that he's going to kill them all, even without a SW wiki somewhere explaining exactly what happens. I could be wrong here, but that seems to be the direction]
A 'C' story of 'how does Kamino solve its science problem?' just doesn't seem relevant or important. I'm not even entirely invested in A or B yet, but C is getting nothing from me.
A 'C' story of 'how does Kamino solve its science problem?' just doesn't seem relevant or important. I'm not even entirely invested in A or B yet, but C is getting nothing from me.
It doesn't really need to grab you particularly hard. The C story is seemingly just there to explain why Omega exists. It's unlikely to be developed beyond 'We need to recover Omega' before Tarkin turns on them and wipes them out.
Voss wrote: The 'B' story is 'when does Tarkin drop his sudden and inevitable betrayal on the Kaminoans?' [It seems really telegraphed that he's going to kill them all, even without a SW wiki somewhere explaining exactly what happens. I could be wrong here, but that seems to be the direction]
A 'C' story of 'how does Kamino solve its science problem?' just doesn't seem relevant or important. I'm not even entirely invested in A or B yet, but C is getting nothing from me.
Employing obvious foreshadowing with prior knowledge;
Spoiler:
The plot seems to be laying the ground work for the Kaminoan rebellion. There have been different variations on it over the years (the Comics, Battlefront 2 the original, and I think a few books and other media), but one part is always consistent; the Kaminoans become resentful of Imperial control and grow a new clone army, the Empire suppresses the rebellion, and that is when the Empire ceases to use Jango Fett clones. Different variations of the outcome posited that it was either the end of the Empire using clones at all, that the Empire kept using clones but from multiple sources, or that Kamino was completely purged and all clones made on Kamino decommissioned. Legends never firmly established exactly how the Grand Army came to end and different sources offered different ideas, but I look at this show and its Kamino subplot and see the laying of the threads for a canonized version of the events, though who knows what twists might be thrown in.
I think there's a clear tie in here with Omega, possibly as the basis for future Kaminoan endeavors and maybe a potential end point for the Clones as characters whenever the Bad Batch runs its course. So to me, I can see the pieces they're playing with and have a vaguish idea what each piece means, so I guess this isn't striking me as a problem in the same way.
hotsauceman1 wrote: So who could be the clone they want to bring back?
I'm assuming wrecker, a mutation that strong could be useful
The Kaminos? Obviously Omega. [Its kinda in the name]
She was presumably made for a purpose (and they did say they need one because spoilers; that just happen to coincide with the Imperial reappraisal of the whole project). So of them, she was designed, rather being a random mutation that just happens to fit an absurdly specialized role that happens to work out for an ad hoc special forces squad. I doubt the Empire would appreciate (or want) an army of Techs, Hunters or Wreckers, and I'd be shocked if the Kamino folks didn't know that at this point.
Plus... I hope they don't, but they could get real creepy (or just trope-y) about it.
I'm still going with my 'Omega is force sensitive' theory.
But part of me is now thinking of other options. - Could she be like, a clone of Satine? Maybe they'll try to tie into Mandalorian stuff, we know by Rebels that Mandalore turns into practically a wasteland by then... Maybe the Kaminoan rebellion seeks allies?
That can then turn into more of the journey of the Darksaber too....
For the fate of the clones, they seem to be suggesting that, for right now, they're assigning clones as the squad leaders. Which would make sense considering the relatively few clones and the Empires massive plans for expansion of its military
And it breaks down all that 'brotherhood' stuff when the clones are potentially on their own with normies a lot of the time..
I wasn't sure about Fennec Shand's look in episode 4 but there's 27 years between this and Mando. So looking at Ming Na Wen in Streetfighter (also 27 years old!) I can actually see the similarity now.
Also Dave Filoni has been promoted to Executive Creative Director at Lucasfilm only Kathleen Kennedy is above him there now.
The book of Boba Fett has finished principal photography and some promo images showed "Season 1" in them so it may or may not be a limited serious if Rangers gets shelved I could see Boba getting more seasons. Timothy Olyphant has also recently been sporting his Cobb Vanth look.
Compel wrote: I'm still going with my 'Omega is force sensitive' theory.
There were a couple musical cues tonight that made me less dismissive of this theory. I'm going with an Obi-wan/Jango hybrid, so she can officially apply for a cottage down on Star Wars street once this is all over.
Ep4 was... interesting. With all the problems, they seem to be Officially Out of Resources, so I'm expecting some sort of 'job' episode next. Possibly getting hired as muscle (and hacking) for a heist.
I really hope this series does not go the way of the previous cartoons and have Omega as being the one to work everything out. I loved Rebels and Ezra mostly worked but Kaz in Resistance was awful.
Episode was okay though, interesting they are making back story for Fennec Shand before the Book of Boba Fett comes out.
The moment we saw a caged animal, without even knowing what it was yet, I knew it was Moochi.
I am really starting to feel that whole smallness of the galaxy with yet more preexisting characters continuing to show up. Like did Jabba’s ranchor really need a backstory?
I always rather liked the scene when the Ranchor was killed and we saw its keeper crying. It was a really small part of the scene and yet it changed the dynamic of it in a subtle way and, like a lot of early Starwars, did speak of a story within. Sure we never got that story, but the simple moment to acknowledge it made the ranchor something more than just "wandering monster quest"
Overread wrote: I always rather liked the scene when the Ranchor was killed and we saw its keeper crying. It was a really small part of the scene and yet it changed the dynamic of it in a subtle way and, like a lot of early Starwars, did speak of a story within. Sure we never got that story, but the simple moment to acknowledge it made the ranchor something more than just "wandering monster quest"
We did get that story in the old Expanded Universe (now Legends). A mercenary named Bidlo Kwerve brought the Rancor to Jabba, and ultimately became its first victim. The keeper guy (whose name is Malakili, btw) was planning to rescue the Rancor from Jabba's, but unfortunately Luke ended up killing it before that could happen. I think that story is in "Tales from Jabba's Palace".
Lots of background stuff going on (decommissioning of Droids, value of certain items) and a return for those lasses from the last season of Clone Wars.
I've not seen the episode yet, but I always figured they were another clear 'backdoor pilot' like Bad Batch that was probably the real reason Clone Wars season 7 got made at all.
Pretty much, yeah... the main point of Season 7 always seemed to be the last four eps (the "movie"), with the previous two arcs beng more like previews of things to come.
Ep 1:
Clones betray their old friends.
Crosshairs betrays the Batch
Ep 2:
Wrecker, “Ah my head.”
Ep 3:
Wrecker, “Ah my head.”
Ep 4:
Hunter, “You mean there’s literal, physical chips in our heads that made them betray their friends?”
Tech, “Did I not mention that before?”
Wrecker, “Ah my head!”
Ep 5:
Wrecker, “Ah my head!”
Hunter, “Stop complaining already!”
Ep 6:
Wrecker, “Ah my head!”
Echo, “Just do your job!”
Next time on Bad Batch (or longer if they keep milking it):
The chip in Wrecker’s head takes over and he betrays his old friends.
Everyone else;
I think you've got it wrong. It'll be "Thanks to the love of a child and his comrades, Wrecker overcomes the influence of the chip."
This will likely come at great physical cost meaning the rest of the Batch have to track down the only macguffin in the galaxy that can save his life. There's just one catch...
I sincerely hate the energy bow. It (for some reason) requires physical muscles she doesn't have (being a child), and she can use a gun _just fine_, and the thing doesn't seem any less dangerous or lethal than a gun.
It's really stupid not to just give her a gun. They're already taking a child into combat situations, and training her up as a literal child soldier, so the moral event horizon is long gone.
Voss wrote: I sincerely hate the energy bow. It (for some reason) requires physical muscles she doesn't have (being a child), and she can use a gun _just fine_, and the thing doesn't seem any less dangerous or lethal than a gun.
It's really stupid not to just give her a gun. They're already taking a child into combat situations, and training her up as a literal child soldier, so the moral event horizon is long gone.
Agreed. Why the hell would you design an energy weapon that works like a bow in the first place? That is beyond stupid and quite possibly the worst weapon I've seen in Star Wars, like, ever.
Yeah, but then they'll never be able to cash in on the Katniss Everdeen crowd and sell the Star Wars version of all those toys!
Literally my first thought on that scene; this is to sell a toy and this weapon is dumb.
I did however get a laugh from the bar encouraging/betting on her success XD It made me think of how incredibly rare it is in Star Wars to just see people living life and doing mundane things, and even more so how the population of the galaxy whose fates these conflicts decide are almost always faceless bystanders. It was a nice touch that I appreciated quite a bit.
Voss wrote: I sincerely hate the energy bow. It (for some reason) requires physical muscles she doesn't have (being a child), and she can use a gun _just fine_, and the thing doesn't seem any less dangerous or lethal than a gun.
It's really stupid not to just give her a gun. They're already taking a child into combat situations, and training her up as a literal child soldier, so the moral event horizon is long gone.
Agreed. Why the hell would you design an energy weapon that works like a bow in the first place? That is beyond stupid and quite possibly the worst weapon I've seen in Star Wars, like, ever.
It's not the first energy bow we've been shown, though. Nightsisters used them in the Clone Wars cartoon, and Jannah has one (although hers apparently energises physical arrows rather than being pure energy blasts) in RoS.
It's no more silly than lightwhips, or any number of other design decisions made over the years. Star Wars isn't hard sci fi, it's fantasy in space, and design decisions rely far more on whether or not something looks cool than on whether or not it's practical.
As for why Omega has it instead of a gun... my impression was that it was just because she liked it.
The bow that energizes physical arrows makes a lot more sense, and is even kind of cool in a weird, almost WH40k sort of way. I get it that Star Wars is fantasy in space and everything is made up to look cool and all that, but you gotta draw the line someplace...
The bow is a bit silly. Its actual reason probably is that The Mouse doesn’t want to give guns to children (regularly) and to sell toys.
For an in-universe explanation, it somehow turns muscle energy into blaster bolts? Or even if it has a charge pack, it might have been developed for cultural reasons. Some alien race has a big way of the bow thing rooted into their past, so when they get to the point of real weapons (either by developing it themselves, or more likely some entrepreneur figures he can make bank selling to a niche market) they end up with bow/blaster things. Not practical.
Star Wars stuff is oftentimes impractical, like armor that mainly does nothing... which apparently is all except beskar, or bowcasters that are energy crossbows and work exactly as any other blaster, but with a bow on top, or... well, a whole lot of things, actually ^^.
Then again, in SW space, you only need a tiny respirator mask to be able to breathe in space, so... it's simply part of how SW works ^^.
Is it me or is Dave Filoni kinda making the galaxy kinda.....small?
The Bad Batch Just so happens to run into Kanan, Then just so happen to get Jabbas Rancor for him, then run into........the sisters on a random mission.
IT feels less like a galaxy and more like a small city now.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Is it me or is Dave Filoni kinda making the galaxy kinda.....small?
The Bad Batch Just so happens to run into Kanan, Then just so happen to get Jabbas Rancor for him, then run into........the sisters on a random mission.
IT feels less like a galaxy and more like a small city now.
It did annoy me that I didn't know who they were, but I was clearly supposed to. Also their 'sinister' reporting in about the clones to someone who is clearly going to turn out to not be sinister at all.
The overall style of the show is very hamfisted and dragging out the obvious eventual plot (chip.head.pain.medic.girl.fix).
Its telling that basically no one has a motivation beyond 'we left so we didn't get murdered' and it isn't really left with anything beyond that. I just don't know where its going to go for 10 more episodes..?
Its a shame the setting doesn't have some sort of inbuilt explanation for that.
Like some kind of mystic energy field guiding peoples destiny or something.
That'd be neat, we could call it The Schwartz.
Snark aside, apparently that isn't THE Rancor that belongs to Jabba, the one that Luke kills. It's just A rancor (People are already theorising that Obi-Wan kills it in his show).
Really though, I see it more as through-lines, it's about making the universe feel singular and connected, despite the many different stories and styles there are.
And, how many people really know, unless they know? To most people is Kanan, Kanan, or just a Padawan?
And the sisters might as well have been an introduction to people too, probably prepping for their inevitable TV show.
Really though, I see it more as through-lines, it's about making the universe feel singular and connected, despite the many different stories and styles there are.
See I don't think it does any of that, to a degree that I actually had to sit and think what you could possibly mean by 'styles' in this context, and drawing a big red blank at 'different stories.'
The universe seems small- the sisters exist to make a link to their contact for later (and the audience gets to see that part, but not enough to ID the contact to give the 'tension' a boost).
But the 'story' is just the Nth iteration of: Plucky group shoots way to macguffin... ??... profit!
Where are the stories that aren't crossing paths with the Empire or Rebellion? The mysteries, romances, dramas, thrillers, anything beyond guns blazing 'adventure!' That's fine I guess, for the films. But the shows need to move on and break some new ground somewhere. Not just re-treading old ground and 'member berries.
Really though, I see it more as through-lines, it's about making the universe feel singular and connected, despite the many different stories and styles there are.
See I don't think it does any of that, to a degree that I actually had to sit and think what you could possibly mean by 'styles' in this context, and drawing a big red blank at 'different stories.'
The universe seems small- the sisters exist to make a link to their contact for later (and the audience gets to see that part, but not enough to ID the contact to give the 'tension' a boost).
But the 'story' is just the Nth iteration of: Plucky group shoots way to macguffin... ??... profit!
Where are the stories that aren't crossing paths with the Empire or Rebellion? The mysteries, romances, dramas, thrillers, anything beyond guns blazing 'adventure!' That's fine I guess, for the films. But the shows need to move on and break some new ground somewhere. Not just re-treading old ground and 'member berries.
As much as I agree with the Sentiment, the Bad Batch was never going to be THAT show.
Really though, I see it more as through-lines, it's about making the universe feel singular and connected, despite the many different stories and styles there are.
See I don't think it does any of that, to a degree that I actually had to sit and think what you could possibly mean by 'styles' in this context, and drawing a big red blank at 'different stories.'
The universe seems small- the sisters exist to make a link to their contact for later (and the audience gets to see that part, but not enough to ID the contact to give the 'tension' a boost).
But the 'story' is just the Nth iteration of: Plucky group shoots way to macguffin... ??... profit!
Where are the stories that aren't crossing paths with the Empire or Rebellion? The mysteries, romances, dramas, thrillers, anything beyond guns blazing 'adventure!' That's fine I guess, for the films. But the shows need to move on and break some new ground somewhere. Not just re-treading old ground and 'member berries.
As much as I agree with the Sentiment, the Bad Batch was never going to be THAT show.
By THAT show, you mean one of dozens of options?
There could be an interesting story here about decommissioned soldiers, but SW doesn't have any real room for ex-soldiers. Like 40k, the conflict is pretty much perpetual.
The problem is its really plain where the end game is ('AH, my head!' Ad nauseum). Its just that in lieu of an interesting story, we're getting the penny tour of Star Wars land in the meantime (with cameos from nobodies, but Named nobodies), but not much else.
And sadly, the 'magic defects' (superhuman) clone squad just isn't very interesting. They're super one dimensional versions of the same guy, after all.
I think it's more that this show has all the exact same options as all the others, just from a slightly different angle.
And I would agree.
One of the things that stood out to me in the last episode is the bar scene and how incredibly rare it is for the background characters of Star Wars to ever be more than background. We never really see much of life in Star Wars' galaxy because every series is about the same kinds of people doing the same kinds of things.
The MCU recently toyed with the idea of a sitcom. Surely Star Wars could do the same. Why can't we have an office comedy about Galactic Senate staffers?
LordofHats wrote: I think it's more that this show has all the exact same options as all the others, just from a slightly different angle.
And I would agree.
One of the things that stood out to me in the last episode is the bar scene and how incredibly rare it is for the background characters of Star Wars to ever be more than background. We never really see much of life in Star Wars' galaxy because every series is about the same kinds of people doing the same kinds of things.
The MCU recently toyed with the idea of a sitcom. Surely Star Wars could do the same. Why can't we have an office comedy about Galactic Senate staffers?
I recall that Solo caught a lot of flack for not being Star Wars enough. It was your basic heist flick. No jedi, no space magic, no lightsaber duels. It still had the hooks of some of the mainline characters, and other roots to the universe though. How many Star Wars things can you remove before it stops being Star Wars? The franchise is epic space fantasy at its core. If you used all the world building to tell a story that’s not in that genre, will people watch it?
Probably depends a lot on the specific show they run with. Get a good cast with chemistry, almost anything will fly.
Does that mean Bad Batch isn’t Star Wars enough? Other than the cameo in the very beginning we’re running Jedi free. Or is that brief cameo enough to tick the box?
AduroT wrote: Does that mean Bad Batch isn’t Star Wars enough? Other than the cameo in the very beginning we’re running Jedi free. Or is that brief cameo enough to tick the box?
I was speaking more in generalizations. For example, my son did not care much for Solo, for the lack of Star Wars-ness.
He however loves the Bad Batch. He grew up watching the Clone Wars, and the prequil movies are more his thing than the OT. So for him, clones=SW.
I wasn’t a big fan on them in S7. They felt like Team Fortress:SW edition. I’m enjoying the new series though. Not expecting much, but it delivers entertainment.
LordofHats wrote: I think it's more that this show has all the exact same options as all the others, just from a slightly different angle.
And I would agree.
One of the things that stood out to me in the last episode is the bar scene and how incredibly rare it is for the background characters of Star Wars to ever be more than background. We never really see much of life in Star Wars' galaxy because every series is about the same kinds of people doing the same kinds of things.
The MCU recently toyed with the idea of a sitcom. Surely Star Wars could do the same. Why can't we have an office comedy about Galactic Senate staffers?
I recall that Solo caught a lot of flack for not being Star Wars enough. It was your basic heist flick. No jedi, no space magic, no lightsaber duels. It still had the hooks of some of the mainline characters, and other roots to the universe though. How many Star Wars things can you remove before it stops being Star Wars? The franchise is epic space fantasy at its core. If you used all the world building to tell a story that’s not in that genre, will people watch it?
Probably depends a lot on the specific show they run with. Get a good cast with chemistry, almost anything will fly.
I actually thought Solo was perfectly fine without Jedi and lightsabers. But then again some of my favorite stuff from the EU are the Rogue Squadron books. Sure, you get a bit of the Force and lightsabers injected into it with Corran Horn, but every other part of the series is solid Star Wars dogfighting and space battles.
Not EVERY thing needs lightsaber battle crescendos to be true to Star Wars. Actually I feel the weakest part of Star Wars is the slavish need to tie everything to the Jedi somehow, in every single setting and time period.
AegisGrimm wrote: I actually thought Solo was perfectly fine without Jedi and lightsabers. But then again some of my favorite stuff from the EU are the Rogue Squadron books. Sure, you get a bit of the Force and lightsabers injected into it with Corran Horn, but every other part of the series is solid Star Wars dogfighting and space battles.
Not EVERY thing needs lightsaber battle crescendos to be true to Star Wars. Actually I feel the weakest part of Star Wars is the slavish need to tie everything to the Jedi somehow, in every single setting and time period.
I feel like Solo was a case of people said they wanted something and then they said "not like that though!"
I definitely want more non-force Star Wars. The one thing that really sucked about Solo were some of the goofy gimmicks and forced dialogue, but it wasn't bad. I don't remember it being accused of not being Star Wars enough either. The big thing it was accused of was being lack luster and coming out after the Last Jedi when everyone was down on the franchise. Solo was better than the Last Jedi though imo, and Rise of Skywalker. Their suckiness probably helped with its 'so okay it's average'-ness but it wasn't a bad movie and I'd rather have more Solo than more of whatever the sequel trilogy was.
Wrecker: Ah, My Head!
Rex: Uh, you ok there buddy?
Hunter: Yeah, he’s fine.
Rex: You’ve… You’ve all had your brain chips removed, right?
Tech: Pft! No! We’re totally immune to those!
Wrecker: Ah, My Head!
Hunter: Completely immune!
Echo: Except for Crosshairs who tried to murder all of us.
Rex: Yeah, ok, y’all are coming with me right this instant to deal with this so I don’t have to shoot any of you morons.
Thank you Rex for refusing to handle the Idiot Ball!
Wow, they actually solved the big plot arc at the halfway point.
Why'd it change his speech pattern, though?
I get that its a mind control chip and all, but... it seems a little small to erase all individuality and personality traits as well as force obedience to specific orders and make logical connections to associates of people not following orders.
I wouldn’t call it the big plot arc. I think that’s Omega, who is still largely unexplored. Also resolving their chip issue now means they can also try to rescue Crosshairs and yank his. There’s plenty left to cover.
AduroT wrote: I wouldn’t call it the big plot arc. I think that’s Omega, who is still largely unexplored. Also resolving their chip issue now means they can also try to rescue Crosshairs and yank his. There’s plenty left to cover.
Its really the only plot arc they've had. Omega is functionally a mystery box at this point. She could save them all with power of love*, be a secret Jedi, a virus that will disable all the 'regs,' or be a super secret ultra-mega war goddess. It kinda feels like it doesn't matter, and will end in a kidnapping and climatic rescue, and then they (the survivors) fly off to join the rebellion and do... things... and maybe stuff... in the next crossover show.
*I will laugh and laugh and laugh if this turns into a Macross-inspired 'fusion' and she's the Minmei to the clones' Zentradi.
I think her Kiwi accent is a deliberate red herring, something she picked up from living with Fett Clones, and not inherent to her nature.
This will start to tie the three trilogies together
Ugh. So when Rey moves into the Skywalker farm, she finds an old letter from Gramma Omega to her daughter, and tells her about the old BBQ where she met Rey's grandpa?
Yeah, that'll be great. I suppose Star Wars Street needs a dance hall or diner for characters to hook up and get the old incest generator going.
AduroT wrote: I wouldn’t call it the big plot arc. I think that’s Omega, who is still largely unexplored. Also resolving their chip issue now means they can also try to rescue Crosshairs and yank his. There’s plenty left to cover.
Now what I'm thinking will happen is that they'll manage to get the chip off Crosshairs... and it won't change a thing.
I don’t think she’s a Palp clone. She’s not given Enough importance for that and the Caminoians behaved like she was a personal project and not one sanctioned by anyone. I don’t think Tarkin would be there threatening a shutdown if that project was going on.
If they even know. Palpatine wouldn’t tell Tarkin everything.
Consider. The Kaminoans, or at least Lama Su was in on Order 66, yes?
What better way to protect your position than cloning a Daughter of Palpatine, so should he fall/be assassinated, you’ve got a puppet Emperor to ensure you’re left entirely alone.
TCW ahd an arc where Boba Fett killed him, got a dent in his helmet during the process and thus became "the bestest bounty hunter" my guess would be that they're going to bring this arc into The Bad Batch, figuring it's too important to just leave on the cutting room floor
Fennec Shand? She's introduced as a rising star and active at the time, and we know where she's headed. The previous shows have been good about fleshing out a number of characters and I don't see why the Bad Batch would be any different. I don't doubt there'll be more of her.
Edit: To add the thought, it's not that that necessarily needs to happen. But currently underworld stuff is in theme for the story and even if they go full blown rebels, there's reason for bounty hunters to appear in the story. So there's reason for her to make another appearance, although specifically her involvement isn't required.
AduroT wrote: There’s only like what, six bounty hunters in the entire galaxy?
----
I wonder if we’ll see the first gal again at all or if her time on Cameo-Of-The-Week is done.
This is Star Wars Street, neighbor. You'll take your cameos and like it.
Any strong female characters will remain seated during the mandatory Damsel-in-Distress portion of the plot. (barring a sudden heel-face turn and she helps out due to the insult to her professional rep).
Now they just need to call their contacts to get their allies together for a raid on the secret backup facility, while ramping up for the final showdown with their ex-best friend. And then the bittersweet ending where someone dies and the sequel flag is raised.
Hmmm... and a filler episode, as 8 left is a little too long for that.
AduroT wrote: I don’t think she’s a Palp clone. She’s not given Enough importance for that and the Caminoians behaved like she was a personal project and not one sanctioned by anyone. I don’t think Tarkin would be there threatening a shutdown if that project was going on.
IIRC she's refered to in the latest episode as the "contingency plan" with the implication that if the empire ever turns on them etc she's the contingancy plan.
AduroT wrote: I don’t think she’s a Palp clone. She’s not given Enough importance for that and the Caminoians behaved like she was a personal project and not one sanctioned by anyone. I don’t think Tarkin would be there threatening a shutdown if that project was going on.
IIRC she's refered to in the latest episode as the "contingency plan" with the implication that if the empire ever turns on them etc she's the contingancy plan.
They mentioned previously that the original Boba Fett genetic sample is degrading to the point of being unusable. My money is still on her being some kind of hail mary plan to keep that sample usable. Also, this show had better end with the Kamino Rebellion.
AduroT wrote: I don’t think she’s a Palp clone. She’s not given Enough importance for that and the Caminoians behaved like she was a personal project and not one sanctioned by anyone. I don’t think Tarkin would be there threatening a shutdown if that project was going on.
IIRC she's refered to in the latest episode as the "contingency plan" with the implication that if the empire ever turns on them etc she's the contingancy plan.
They mentioned previously that the original Boba Fett genetic sample is degrading to the point of being unusable. My money is still on her being some kind of hail mary plan to keep that sample usable. Also, this show had better end with the Kamino Rebellion.
Spoiler:
welp, looks like you're right, she's basicly a "gender bent boba fett" apparently.
welp, looks like you're right, she's basicly a "gender bent boba fett" apparently.
Spoiler:
One could presume, in a very very dark sense, that a female would be a much better source of genetic material than a male. Harvesting her eggs could provide a basis for a mountain of fresh genetic material.
I was predicting that they'd reveal Shand was the the new Bounty Hunter being used as a basis for future clones and that Omega was actually her clone, cause she seemed to have a personal interest in Omega in prior episodes beyond just having a job to do. The most recent episode seems to have shot that down though.
I'm still trying to figure out how a clone, which is by definition a perfect genetic copy of another being, could be female when it is a clone of a male being. Makes me suspect the Kaminoans did tamper with Omega's genes in some way. Or that there was some random mutation which they are trying to figure out how it happened.
ZergSmasher wrote: I'm still trying to figure out how a clone, which is by definition a perfect genetic copy of another being, could be female when it is a clone of a male being. Makes me suspect the Kaminoans did tamper with Omega's genes in some way. Or that there was some random mutation which they are trying to figure out how it happened.
Clone generally doesn't include the word 'perfect' in its definition. Cloning a female from a male is relatively easy once you can do high level cloning (though potentially disposed to genetic problems) as you just duplicate the X chromosome (so if you have a detrimental recessive trait on the X, the clone is definitely getting it, unless further tampering ensues.). Making a male clone out of a female sample (which has no Y chromosome), would require some... creative work.
But yes, random mutation could also work.
The benefits of a female clone over a male are pretty significant. Even leaving out super creepy stuff, you can go all Dolly the Sheep on the egg cells and produce viable offspring that would be potential candidates for cloning in their own right. Hopefully they won't delve too much into this angle, because it would be super easy to make it overly twisted and dark, and not-at-all appropriate for a pre-teen character.
---
Though, honestly. Alternately they could just find another decent candidate in an entire galaxy. It can't be _that_ hard.
But really it should dawn on them by now that the Empire doesn't give a dead rat carcass about keeping the clone program running regardless. They're krunked no matter what.
ZergSmasher wrote: I'm still trying to figure out how a clone, which is by definition a perfect genetic copy of another being, could be female when it is a clone of a male being. Makes me suspect the Kaminoans did tamper with Omega's genes in some way. Or that there was some random mutation which they are trying to figure out how it happened.
honest question but have you never seen Jurassic Park?
Yeah, I think the Clone Rebellion might end up being one of the main 'reasons' for the series, particularly as they said 'kthnx, no' to Rex and what I assumed was the nascent start of the rebellion, or at least Bail and Mon Mothma getting organised.
Basically Bad Batch being 'Whatever happened to the clones?' while Clone Wars was 'what actually happened in the Clone Wars' and Rebels being 'what was the early Rebellion like?'
Sequel trilogy need some of that love. Because the prequel films were pretty awful, but thanks to Clone Wars, it’s now a beloved era of excellent story telling (and a few duds).
Right now, the Sequels feel a little divorced from things. The 30ish year in universe gap is of course deliberate, and gives them a sandbox to fill in and explore as they go along.
Some of the novels fill in quite nicely, but it needs stuff like Mando, Boba and a Rebelsesque animated series to start stitching everything together. Particular to explain to the more casual watcher why The Republic didn’t do much if anything about the First Order, requiring a paramilitary Resistance.
Hell, do an animated series based on Luke’s academy pre, during and well, kinda post Ben Solo.
I think the problem is that the Prequel trilogy still worked as movies and as a trilogy compared to the sequel trilogy. They where more cohesive then the sequels and where both thematically and visually disticnt from the OT, while the ST tries to ape all the OT looks and themes of rebellion.
Not to mention the story of the Clone Wars got more depth as you grow up and examined it critically,
the ST lacks that i think.
The prequels always had good bones. The overarching idea of a manufactured conflict to seize power was strong, right from TPM. It's just the meat on those bones was awful. Terrible dialog, unconvincing motivations, very confused looking actors; it all makes for terrible films, but the skeleton is strong enough to make them sound good in a wiki, which is all that's needed for someone else to use to tell better stories.
The sequel films kind of have the opposite problem. TFA has great actors playing charming characters on a fun adventure. It's problem is the bones of it are all a scam. A poorly thought through and explained conflict that mostly peddles interesting questions without having any answers to show. In truth, I think that's okay. I even think its fine when TLJ tears the illusion down and replaces it with actual bones to work with. Unfortunately, I don't know what to do with the setting now that they ended by bringing back the con man to fumble through an ending full of nothing. I would have LOVED to see stories set after Ep8, but 9 just really leaves nothing interesting to do with it.
Voss wrote: Sudden unspoken KOs only!
Gods among clones!
Spoiler:
Abandonment attempt take 2! (But that'll learn ya, this time)
Plot...?
I'm going to put down my take without judgment*, just logical assumptions based on what's been shown so far.
First point, this is the first time they encountered clones since they escaped after having their control chips removed and after they had time to give the matter any thought. Those clones were their brothers for longer than they were their enemies and knowing about the chips and the inability to resist them, they may have hope to someday see the situation fixed and therefore don't want to incur any unnecessary casualties now.
Second point, sitting out a mission that they think is too dangerous not just because of the presence of the Empire (the new enemy) but also involvement with the Separatists (the old enemy) isn't the same as permanently dumping Omega. They had every intention of coming back for her. Just not to drag her into the Empire-occupied heart of Separatist space.
Third point, the episode moves the overall plot along by letting Omega pay off their debt so they are now free to set up shop elsewhere without looking over their shoulder all the time for not paying up. The episode also allows them to first hand see** how the (former) Separatists are affected by Imperial rule which can eventually be used to allow them to let old grudges die and unite against the Empire in an early rebellion that may not care where it gets its fighters from, which is bound to involve bad blood from the Clone Wars.
Putting this separately as it's speculation about future developments, but it might also be meant as an introduction to the Separatist senator as a counterpart to Bail Organa as another founder of the rebellion, and playing into the same general idea of Clone Wars enemies seeing past their old experiences in the face of a common enemy. Getting the idea was easy enough, but I'm actually torn on it. On the one hand Organa is a good choice since he was with Padme in resisting Palpi's schemes in the senate and wanted a diplomatic solution all along, so he's the easy choice for reconciliation. On the other hand, since he was so eager for diplomacy to resume between the Republic and Confederacy, it waters down the theme somewhat. But eh, I'm probably wrong in predicting things anyway.
*Much like how I feel about Clone Wars, and unlike Mandalorian, I think Bad Batch isn't written for individual episodes and will only lend itself to evaluation once I can watch the whole season in one go.
**First hand experience being, from what we've seen, pretty much the only way they get a clue. They are kind of dim.
AduroT wrote: Quick! We need to escape! Everyone in the slow plodding tank that barely moves at a walking pace and paints a giant bullseye on us!
And don't anybody even think about manning that cannon!
Star Wars wrote:Seven Japanese anime studios bring their unique talent and perspective to #StarWarsVisions, a collection of animated Original Short Films, streaming September 22 on @DisneyPlus.
Star Wars wrote:Seven Japanese anime studios bring their unique talent and perspective to #StarWarsVisions, a collection of animated Original Short Films, streaming September 22 on @DisneyPlus.
Star Wars wrote:Seven Japanese anime studios bring their unique talent and perspective to #StarWarsVisions, a collection of animated Original Short Films, streaming September 22 on @DisneyPlus.
ugh anime. PASS.
Yes, because no good anime has ever been created. Ever.
Voss wrote: Sudden unspoken KOs only!
Gods among clones!
Spoiler:
Abandonment attempt take 2! (But that'll learn ya, this time)
Plot...?
I'm going to put down my take without judgment*, just logical assumptions based on what's been shown so far.
First point, this is the first time they encountered clones since they escaped after having their control chips removed and after they had time to give the matter any thought. Those clones were their brothers for longer than they were their enemies and knowing about the chips and the inability to resist them, they may have hope to someday see the situation fixed and therefore don't want to incur any unnecessary casualties now.
Maybe. But it kind of merits a conversation since it really hasn't been an issue before. Speaking broadly it doesn't actually make sense to teach the clones to value each other's lives, since their intended purpose was to be disposable.
Second point, sitting out a mission that they think is too dangerous not just because of the presence of the Empire (the new enemy) but also involvement with the Separatists (the old enemy) isn't the same as permanently dumping Omega. They had every intention of coming back for her. Just not to drag her into the Empire-occupied heart of Separatist space.
Oh, definitely it wasn't going to be permanent. Its just an annoyance to circle back to the 'its too dangerous' excuse lets leave her with this person we have no reason to trust, because reasons. I was really surprised Sid didn't try to sell her off.
Third point, the episode moves the overall plot along by letting Omega pay off their debt so they are now free to set up shop elsewhere without looking over their shoulder all the time for not paying up.
Eh. Their 'debt' is basically a fantasy. Any job could have paid for... whatever the amount is. They grab stuff off the cruiser previously specifically to pay it off, and didn't have to leave it all behind. The real reason was to establish that Omega is a magic strategist, despite mostly being taught as a medical intern (which... never paid off despite the excessive episodes of 'ow my head').
The episode also allows them to first hand see** how the (former) Separatists are affected by Imperial rule which can eventually be used to allow them to let old grudges die and unite against the Empire in an early rebellion that may not care where it gets its fighters from, which is bound to involve bad blood from the Clone Wars.
They don't, though. They completely ignore the planet and somehow only rescue the Senator without seeing how Imperial rule affects _anyone_. The episode had a very tunnel-vision approach- away from 'how the empire affects people,' to 'only leaders matter.' It was very tone-deaf in that regard.
And don't anybody even think about manning that cannon!
Yeah. Not sure how they fixed that axle by pointing a scanner at it either. But given how trivially easy it was to take out those tanks, I'm not sure why anyone would bother.
Voss wrote: Oh, definitely it wasn't going to be permanent. Its just an annoyance to circle back to the 'its too dangerous' excuse lets leave her with this person we have no reason to trust, because reasons. I was really surprised Sid didn't try to sell her off.
I don’t think Sid would betray them at this point. They’re basically just a tsundere.
Star Wars wrote:Seven Japanese anime studios bring their unique talent and perspective to #StarWarsVisions, a collection of animated Original Short Films, streaming September 22 on @DisneyPlus.
ugh anime. PASS.
Yes, because no good anime has ever been created. Ever.
And anime being a medium, not a genre. Kind of like saying "ugh movie. PASS".
Eh, I can see the skepticism. Anime is presented in a visual style (or range of styles) that I wouldn't traditionally associate with Star Wars. Now me, I don't have a problem with it yet. If it's good, it's good, doesn't matter much then what it looks like.
Voss wrote: Maybe. But it kind of merits a conversation since it really hasn't been an issue before. Speaking broadly it doesn't actually make sense to teach the clones to value each other's lives, since their intended purpose was to be disposable.
Yes, some exposition wouldn't have gone amiss.
It's not that the clones were taught or intended to value each other's lives, but we have seven seasons of Clone Wars showing that that's how it turned out regardless. It's not something I'd happily disregard.
That said, I think it could actually make sense to allow the clones to show a measure of human characteristics since they are meant to gain the unquestioning trust of the Jedi. It's going to be easier to show compassion for people with emotions than biological tools. It's also a sound reason for building the inhibitor chip to mind control the clones after Order 66 is activated to stamp out such human behavior. Even if in real world terms the latter is probably an after the fact fix for the all too human portrayal of clones when they were still the good guys.
Voss wrote: Oh, definitely it wasn't going to be permanent. Its just an annoyance to circle back to the 'its too dangerous' excuse lets leave her with this person we have no reason to trust, because reasons. I was really surprised Sid didn't try to sell her off.
As I said, because reasons wasn't what came to mind when I watched the episode. They weren't just going into Imperial territory with all the dangers that involved, anywhere else on the planet wasn't going to be neutral territory but Separatist territory, just weeks or months after the war against those same people that were the reason for which the clones were created in the first place. Thus, if something were to go wrong, there's nowhere to retreat and hostiles all around. At least in the eyes of the Bad Batch. I can accept that as valid reasoning in universe.
Voss wrote: Eh. Their 'debt' is basically a fantasy. Any job could have paid for... whatever the amount is. They grab stuff off the cruiser previously specifically to pay it off, and didn't have to leave it all behind. The real reason was to establish that Omega is a magic strategist, despite mostly being taught as a medical intern (which... never paid off despite the excessive episodes of 'ow my head').
Of course the debt is entirely imaginary. Sid is criminal scum and the clones are cheap, capable labor without a clue about civilian life, much less the criminal underworld. For her it's the perfect scheme.
And yeah, it is more about establishing how awesome Omega is. She is, after all, front and center to the show.
Voss wrote: They don't, though. They completely ignore the planet and somehow only rescue the Senator without seeing how Imperial rule affects _anyone_. The episode had a very tunnel-vision approach- away from 'how the empire affects people,' to 'only leaders matter.' It was very tone-deaf in that regard.
For us it's more interesting to see the normal people but I can accept that the Bad Batch may be served just fine with interacting with the big boss man. Remember every WW2 movie ever with a sniper in it who'd like to be put within a mile of Hitler? No one ever goes to Germany to tell Volkssturmmann Fritz to stop it with the war nonsense and go home to help his granny with the farm. It's an established perspective that the common folks (or in the case of the Separatists the clankers) are an obstacle and the real problem is always the leadership. Give the clones a leader who can look past old enmity and see the Empire as the new threat and you give the clones enough of an insight to perhaps change their own views.
Voss wrote: Yeah. Not sure how they fixed that axle by pointing a scanner at it either. But given how trivially easy it was to take out those tanks, I'm not sure why anyone would bother.
Geifer wrote: Eh, I can see the skepticism. Anime is presented in a visual style (or range of styles) that I wouldn't traditionally associate with Star Wars.
The original clone wars shorts (by Genndy Tartakovsky, where the jedi were absurdly overpowered) were very anime styled. The modern (prequels onward) animated stuff pretty much starts in anime-land.
There's a silly amount of cyberpunk/futuristic anime that would work for Star Wars. Jedi are heavily influenced by Samurai and there are many examples in anime of that style of swordplay (and just overall visual design) working well.
It's ridiculous that anyone is super invested in any plot arch of this that extends beyond personal stakes for the individual characters that we don't know the futures of. Shand? Doesn't matter. She gets robot guts after the Mando shoots her.
Clone factory planet? Doesn't matter. We know the empire ditches them. Any plan they are cooking up to try to save their clone program we know failed since Starwars came out in 1977. There is exactly 0 drama there. Who is Omega? Just a female Fett? Great. Cool. Maybe an adult version will show up in a future season of Mando.
Her fate ultimately doesn't matter because she will be 80 or dead by the time Rey and Kylo re-blow up the galactic government.
This is one of the biggest problems with all of these SW going back and filling in the blanks series. Who the feth cares? The second biggest being the constant string of cameos on SW street shrinking the universe to the most boring possible version of itself.
Lance845 wrote: It's ridiculous that anyone is super invested in any plot arch of this that extends beyond personal stakes for the individual characters that we don't know the futures of. Shand? Doesn't matter. She gets robot guts after the Mando shoots her.
Clone factory planet? Doesn't matter. We know the empire ditches them. Any plan they are cooking up to try to save their clone program we know failed since Starwars came out in 1977. There is exactly 0 drama there. Who is Omega? Just a female Fett? Great. Cool. Maybe an adult version will show up in a future season of Mando.
Her fate ultimately doesn't matter because she will be 80 or dead by the time Rey and Kylo re-blow up the galactic government.
This is one of the biggest problems with all of these SW going back and filling in the blanks series. Who the feth cares? The second biggest being the constant string of cameos on SW street shrinking the universe to the most boring possible version of itself.
Obvoiously a LOT of us care. just because you don't doesn't mean anything. Ever hear the saying "it's the journy not the destination?"
Yeah some people belive in that. I mean christ with that indset who cares about anything, eventually it's all gonna be destroyed with the heat death of the universe!
And yeah, it is more about establishing how awesome Omega is. She is, after all, front and center to the show.
I honestly can't tell: Is that sarcasm?
She's important to one of the (randomly) recurring plot threads. But she's a side character, though a bit more important than Hunter's specialized minions.
Front and center of the show is Hunter avoiding making anything resembling an actual moral choice, but make no mistake, he's the only one that chooses.
Lance845 wrote: It's ridiculous that anyone is super invested in any plot arch of this that extends beyond personal stakes for the individual characters that we don't know the futures of. Shand? Doesn't matter. She gets robot guts after the Mando shoots her.
Clone factory planet? Doesn't matter. We know the empire ditches them. Any plan they are cooking up to try to save their clone program we know failed since Starwars came out in 1977. There is exactly 0 drama there. Who is Omega? Just a female Fett? Great. Cool. Maybe an adult version will show up in a future season of Mando.
Her fate ultimately doesn't matter because she will be 80 or dead by the time Rey and Kylo re-blow up the galactic government.
This is one of the biggest problems with all of these SW going back and filling in the blanks series. Who the feth cares? The second biggest being the constant string of cameos on SW street shrinking the universe to the most boring possible version of itself.
Obvoiously a LOT of us care. just because you don't doesn't mean anything. Ever hear the saying "it's the journy not the destination?"
Yeah some people belive in that. I mean christ with that indset who cares about anything, eventually it's all gonna be destroyed with the heat death of the universe!
It's just good/bad story telling. There is a vast gulf between "nothing matters" and there being no narrative tension for characters who you know won't even suffer and injury or even be any better or worse off in their current profession by the time 20-30 more years go by. There are things to care about. If the bad batch are your favorite characters then you have no idea what happens to them. Cool. Making characters out of the clones was some of the best parts of the clone wars because they were characters that literally anything could happen to. Live, die, grievous injury, mental trauma, whatever. That didn't exist for Yoda, Obi, or Anakin. New characters like Cad Bane facing off against Rex has tension for them both because their futures are unknown.
But Starwars streeting it with people like Shand sucks the tension out of the vast majority of everything going on. Guess what? Shand survives. She's not going to loose a hand or anything.
They need to stop filling in gaps in the past and start moving forward. Or go so far into the past that everyone involved is an unknown (this golden age they want to explore).
Lance845 wrote: But Starwars streeting it with people like Shand sucks the tension out of the vast majority of everything going on. Guess what? Shand survives. She's not going to loose a hand or anything.
That's still focusing on the destination and ignoring the journey. The enjoyment from filling in the blanks isn't reliant on whether or not the characters survive, it's on finding out about what happened to them along the way, and how they handled the resultant situations. There doesn't need to be mortal peril for that to be fun to watch.
The story was never "Will Shand survive?", because we know she will. The story was "Will she get away with Omega".
This is the same problem I have with when people say the new Black Widow movie is pointless because we know she won't die.
This came up at a different forum the other day, so I'll just quote myself:
The Glorious Me! wrote:Yeah I always have a problem with 'We know she doesn't die, so there's no tension!' comments.
There are two ways to do any story where there's a character (or characters) that we know will survive: 1. "Will they survive this?" 2. "How will they get out of this?"
The former leads to largely uninteresting stories. The latter can give you all sorts of interesting narrative opportunities.
I always think back to the (rather shaky) Season 7 of Stargate SG-1 for some great examples of this. The 5th Episode of that season, entitled 'Revisions', features the team coming under threat as a computer is killing off the population (and wiping it from the minds of populace) in order to save resources. The overall threat during the final act is will the computer kill SG-1. No. Of course it won't. There's no tension.
Meanwhile, later on in the season, we have the 13th episode, 'Grace', where Carter is stuck aboard the Prometheus, alone, with a massive concussion and no idea what's happening. The plot is never "Will Carter survive?", because we know she will. She's in the opening titles. She's been in the series since the first episode. Instead it becomes a character study, as the concussion is used to help her work through several issues with other characters and bring her forward. Her journey is the important part.
So going back to Black Widow, of course she survives. We already know exactly how, when and where she dies. But this movie is about filling in the blanks, giving us a look at what happened between her last appearance in Civil War and when she shows up in Infinity War. Showing us her back story, her other life, and part of what made her what she is. I have no problem with that.
I fully understand SW's tendency to shrink the universe, by having too many known people run into one another, but Shand operating in the early Empire days doesn't strike me as something that does that. Additionally, everything I said above about SG-1/Black Widow, applies to the Bad Batch.
And the ST was terrible because it had no plan from the start, and squandered every character it had.
Maybe I am using the "survive" example as an extreme. It's not just will Shand survive. Things like conversations and intrigue and such are cool. But the moment it devolves into a shoot out the stakes disappear.
Using the Black Widow example, or any comic book movie for that matter, the title character is never going to die in their own movie.
The Tension for BW isn't if BW is going to live or die. The tension is the stakes of whatever else is going on in the world as a result of whats happening on screen and what that does for the characters involved moving forward.
Marvel has only ever gone back in time to move forward in some way. BW, while being a Natasha driven film isn't going to be about Natasha going forward. It's to bring Yolana into the universe and move her forward.
But also, the Task Master, the new version of the Red Room, what it means to have the Task Master out there making whatever it is s/he has made (I really hope Task Master isn't dead by the end of this.).
1) We haven't seen so far into the future of the MCU that Yolena's place in the narrative is either known or doesn't matter. 2) We don't know how Task Master and the Red Room can impact future stories in the MCU 3) Whatever else is in there that can come back to impact any number of characters in any number of ways.
Switching back to bad batch, the "plot" and implications for the world in the bad batch are 1) There might be a female Fett running around 2) Kamino might loose all contracts to make clone soldiers 3) The Bad Batch may spend the rest of their days on the run from the empire.
Or 1) Okay. 2) They do. 3) They do.
The argument that it's purely about the journey doesn't hold up next to spoilers. If the first thing you saw of Rebels was a recap of how it was all going to end (Kanan Dies, Ezra uses space whales to warp himself and Thrawn to spaces unknown, the crew join the rebellion they helped inspire and Ahsoka goes on the hunt for Ezra) SOME amount of the preceding journey gets it's fun and tension sucked out of it. Yeah, there is some fun to be had. But a lot of it is just.... gone.
And yeah, it is more about establishing how awesome Omega is. She is, after all, front and center to the show.
I honestly can't tell: Is that sarcasm?
She's important to one of the (randomly) recurring plot threads. But she's a side character, though a bit more important than Hunter's specialized minions.
Front and center of the show is Hunter avoiding making anything resembling an actual moral choice, but make no mistake, he's the only one that chooses.
No sarcasm.
It's an impression I get from how she is presented. It's not something for which I can pull out hard evidence to point to and say, yeah, look, should've called it the Omega Show. Mostly just a feeling.
Like how her appearance in the first episode isn't in the least subtle about her having a role, both from her visual design (no obvious Fett clone, no Kaminoan but a lab assistant in a historically exclusively Kaminoan facility) and how she is never shown to have any reason to befriend the Bad Batch but does so anyway like it's the only thing to do on Kamino. It screams "look at me, I'm what it's all about" to me.
Consider how Hunter lost his breathing mask on the moon they crash landed on when he could have just worn his helmet and not gotten into that mess in the first place, just so as to enable Omega to be the one to retrieve the gadget on her own.
Or that one time the big bad commandos got caught by a couple of Zygerrians and that would have been it if it hadn't been for Omega rescuing them.
Paying off the debt with Sid is only the latest in a line of such events that appear to me as though they are (somewhat implausibly) constructed to enable Omega to resolve crucial situations. Hunter obviously is important. He's the squad leader and of course it's his job to make decisions. The Bad Batch is a military unit after all and the hierarchy is still intact. He's the leader, he makes the decisions. Omega is outside that hierarchy, but she's also a kid so she only gets away with making important decisions if Hunter isn't there to intervene or give his approval. The formal power structure favors Hunter, but the impression I have is that the show is written in such a way that outside of combat and related tactical decisions the decisions that move the overall plot along and give the clones' journey direction are more often in the hands of Omega than the other clones.
And yeah, it is more about establishing how awesome Omega is. She is, after all, front and center to the show.
I honestly can't tell: Is that sarcasm?
She's important to one of the (randomly) recurring plot threads. But she's a side character, though a bit more important than Hunter's specialized minions.
Front and center of the show is Hunter avoiding making anything resembling an actual moral choice, but make no mistake, he's the only one that chooses.
No sarcasm.
It's an impression I get from how she is presented. It's not something for which I can pull out hard evidence to point to and say, yeah, look, should've called it the Omega Show. Mostly just a feeling.
Like how her appearance in the first episode isn't in the least subtle about her having a role, both from her visual design (no obvious Fett clone, no Kaminoan but a lab assistant in a historically exclusively Kaminoan facility) and how she is never shown to have any reason to befriend the Bad Batch but does so anyway like it's the only thing to do on Kamino. It screams "look at me, I'm what it's all about" to me.
Consider how Hunter lost his breathing mask on the moon they crash landed on when he could have just worn his helmet and not gotten into that mess in the first place, just so as to enable Omega to be the one to retrieve the gadget on her own.
Or that one time the big bad commandos got caught by a couple of Zygerrians and that would have been it if it hadn't been for Omega rescuing them.
Paying off the debt with Sid is only the latest in a line of such events that appear to me as though they are (somewhat implausibly) constructed to enable Omega to resolve crucial situations. Hunter obviously is important. He's the squad leader and of course it's his job to make decisions. The Bad Batch is a military unit after all and the hierarchy is still intact. He's the leader, he makes the decisions. Omega is outside that hierarchy, but she's also a kid so she only gets away with making important decisions if Hunter isn't there to intervene or give his approval. The formal power structure favors Hunter, but the impression I have is that the show is written in such a way that outside of combat and related tactical decisions the decisions that move the overall plot along and give the clones' journey direction are more often in the hands of Omega than the other clones.
that's because, despite the name, the Bad Batch is Omega's show. and.. I don't have an issue with that. a lot of cartoon shows about military battler units have a similer approuch of having a tag along kid who helps them out and manages to solve more then a few problems for the main characters. You see this long proud tradtion in MOST transformers series, you see it in Comic books (this was what Rboin initally was) etc.
so yeah this is Omega's story. And it's pretty obviously a "coming of age, learning her destiny" story. Classsic star wars
that's because, despite the name, the Bad Batch is Omega's show. and.. I don't have an issue with that. a lot of cartoon shows about military battler units have a similer approuch of having a tag along kid who helps them out and manages to solve more then a few problems for the main characters. You see this long proud tradtion in MOST transformers series, you see it in Comic books (this was what Rboin initally was) etc.
As an aside, it's the thing that I really hated about the M.A.S.K. cartoon. Not specifically because of the 'tag along kid' trope, but just because that particular kid annoyed me... Omega is at least a likeable character.
Yeah but the kid from M.A.S.K. had an RD-D2 that turned into a motorbike.
And Clone Wars had Ahsoka as the tagalong kid - turned into a character that is quite universally loved. Rebels had Ezra, and he's a very different person by the end.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah but the kid from M.A.S.K. had an RD-D2 that turned into a motorbike.
...and was possibly even more annoying than the kid.
And Clone Wars had Ahsoka as the tagalong kid - turned into a character that is quite universally loved. Rebels had Ezra, and he's a very different person by the end.
Absolutely. These were both excellent examples of the tag-along kid done well. Although it helps that they were in series that allowed for character growth, where most '80s and '90s stuff really didn't.
And yeah, it is more about establishing how awesome Omega is. She is, after all, front and center to the show.
I honestly can't tell: Is that sarcasm?
She's important to one of the (randomly) recurring plot threads. But she's a side character, though a bit more important than Hunter's specialized minions.
Front and center of the show is Hunter avoiding making anything resembling an actual moral choice, but make no mistake, he's the only one that chooses.
No sarcasm.
It's an impression I get from how she is presented. It's not something for which I can pull out hard evidence to point to and say, yeah, look, should've called it the Omega Show. Mostly just a feeling.
Like how her appearance in the first episode isn't in the least subtle about her having a role, both from her visual design (no obvious Fett clone, no Kaminoan but a lab assistant in a historically exclusively Kaminoan facility) and how she is never shown to have any reason to befriend the Bad Batch but does so anyway like it's the only thing to do on Kamino. It screams "look at me, I'm what it's all about" to me.
Consider how Hunter lost his breathing mask on the moon they crash landed on when he could have just worn his helmet and not gotten into that mess in the first place, just so as to enable Omega to be the one to retrieve the gadget on her own.
Or that one time the big bad commandos got caught by a couple of Zygerrians and that would have been it if it hadn't been for Omega rescuing them.
Paying off the debt with Sid is only the latest in a line of such events that appear to me as though they are (somewhat implausibly) constructed to enable Omega to resolve crucial situations. Hunter obviously is important. He's the squad leader and of course it's his job to make decisions. The Bad Batch is a military unit after all and the hierarchy is still intact. He's the leader, he makes the decisions. Omega is outside that hierarchy, but she's also a kid so she only gets away with making important decisions if Hunter isn't there to intervene or give his approval. The formal power structure favors Hunter, but the impression I have is that the show is written in such a way that outside of combat and related tactical decisions the decisions that move the overall plot along and give the clones' journey direction are more often in the hands of Omega than the other clones.
I think that last is my sticking point. There just aren't any decisions that move the plot along (at least, not among the squad). Someone attacks or they get sent to place, but they're mindlessly doing odd jobs in a wider universe that has no reason to give a dead rat's carcass about any of them. I get that the Kaminoans are presented as very very attached to their current clone army, but they've done this professionally for years and years. It can't be that hard to start a new gene-line, and the writing on the wall from the Empire is stupidly big and glaring. Its like watching someone rant about the promise of the League of Nations when its founding day for the UN.
--
Its interesting that you mention that Omega is outside the hierarchy, when its her explicit wish to be a subordinate part of it- that was in fact the actual conflict in the last episode: 'But aren't I part of the squad?'
Yes, she's implausibly instrumental in resolving assorted episodes, but that's... the role of the kid sidekick in shows like this. If you're in a collapsing pyramid, someone has to climb through the hole. If she were Rusty Venture, it'd be exactly the same.
The weird part is she had an established role and the correct knowledge of the obvious chip problem, but somehow she was relegated to a tag along for that resolution. That was her plausible moment to shine, but they pulled that rug out from under her. By... once again introducing an outsider to make a decision and move the plot along (in this case by decreeing by fiat to veto the one motivating element they had).
----
She's obviously 'important' from a meta-knowledge standpoint. But from what's presented in the show, she's just an additional tag along on a crew with no particular point or direction.
I fully expect that to suddenly change at the show's climax, but slogging through 10 episodes of... chores with celebrity cameos? (I don't know what else to call it, since they're established characters in a known setting, so there's no character or world building) With six episodes left its kind of whatever. Presumably things and stuff will lead to a big set piece battle on Kamino and she'll survive at the cost of one or more of the squad (probably Hunter at this point, because cliche about replacing your teacher), and go on to the next show they toss her in, and she'll be the cameo.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah but the kid from M.A.S.K. had an RD-D2 that turned into a motorbike.
...and was possibly even more annoying than the kid.
And Clone Wars had Ahsoka as the tagalong kid - turned into a character that is quite universally loved. Rebels had Ezra, and he's a very different person by the end.
Absolutely. These were both excellent examples of the tag-along kid done well. Although it helps that they were in series that allowed for character growth, where most '80s and '90s stuff really didn't.
ohh exactly, star wars does the tag along kid a lot, partiuclarly the animated stuff (maybe not suprising since the animated stuff is something they want kids to be able to watch thus the tag along kid is their view to the unbiverse) and they do it really well.
Star Wars: accents edition, with extra audio remixing.
...did Twi'lek males always have ears rather than side-bulbs, and reinforced forehead plates?
AduroT wrote: And this weeks special cameo of the episode is none other than the Bad Batch, making a guest appearance in a Rebels origin story.
Yeah. Wow. I thought you were mostly making a joke, but they were effectively a UPS truck passing through with a shipment of jack and squat.
One guy making guns and IEDs in his basement would have been a better supplier of weapons than what they got shipped from however many planets away...
Voss wrote: Star Wars: accents edition, with extra audio remixing.
...did Twi'lek males always have ears rather than side-bulbs, and reinforced forehead plates?
Going by the ROTJ designs Bib Fortuna has the enlarged forehead and regular ears whereas Oola had the cone shaped "ears" so it's probably carried through from then.
Speaking of accents I thought Hera sounded different but it was Vanessa Marshall doing the voice again.
Voss wrote: Star Wars: accents edition, with extra audio remixing.
...did Twi'lek males always have ears rather than side-bulbs, and reinforced forehead plates?
Going by the ROTJ designs Bib Fortuna has the enlarged forehead and regular ears whereas Oola had the cone shaped "ears" so it's probably carried through from then.
Speaking of accents I thought Hera sounded different but it was Vanessa Marshall doing the voice again.
That surprises me. I don't remember Hera being that French. The whole family seemed a random grab-bag of Earth nationalities.
Huh. I guess I never really paid that much attention to the dimorphism. I know female Twi'leks are supposed to be super sexy for some reason, but the lack of ears and the head tentacles always creeped me out. It never really struck me that the males were also brutish with eyebrow ridges, but also just had ears.
I wonder if its just one of those boring stories were there was a medical or contract reason or lack of prop makeup and they just shrugged and left the 'cones' out with Bib.
There's the one episode of Rebels where she pretends to be a slave girl and slips into that Twi-lek accent while she's doing it.
I got the sense she purposefully tried to obscure that and taught herself to speak basic more plainly to try and avoid the stigma's associated with Twi'lek women.
Yeah Twi'leks are French for some reason. When Aayla Secura showed up on Clone Wars she had an inexplicable French accent that made her 10x sexier was quite surprising.
They've carried that forward to other Twi'leks since then, including Hera, who clearly went out of her way to disguise the accent or lose it as she got older.
Either way, I thought was a fun episode of Hera'n'Chop (with Special Guest Appearance by The Bad Batch).
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah Twi'leks are French for some reason. When Aayla Secura showed up on Clone Wars she had an inexplicable French accent that made her 10x sexier was quite surprising.
They've carried that forward to other Twi'leks since then, including Hera, who clearly went out of her way to disguise the accent or lose it as she got older.
Either way, I thought was a fun episode of Hera'n'Chop (with Special Guest Appearance by The Bad Batch).
yeah in addition to when she fakes being a slave she also falls back into the accent when arguing with her father.
that said I expect the Bad Batch will reapper in next week's episode, omega being called to the rescue by her new friend or something
BrianDavion wrote: she also falls back into the accent when arguing with her father.
This was simply brilliant and one of my all time favorite moments in voice acting. Glad to see it reinforced in this episode, even if the episode as a whole reeks of small galaxy problems.
Voss wrote: Star Wars: accents edition, with extra audio remixing.
...did Twi'lek males always have ears rather than side-bulbs, and reinforced forehead plates?
Yes. Males have ears, females have the cone-like protrusions. Nobody knows why. Nor has there ever been an official explanation (as far as I'm aware) for Orn Free Taa having two extra lekku and only four fingers...
insaniak wrote: Yes. Males have ears, females have the cone-like protrusions. Nobody knows why.
The actual why is that Oola from Return of the Jedi had a headpiece with two cones on the sides over her ears. They're clearly meant to be embellishments made of bone and not part of her body, as backed up in the OT as the special editions added a second female Twi'lek named Lyn Me who clearly doesn't have them. Personally I think someone made a mistake around the time they were designing Aayla Secura and are hoping nobody notices.
insaniak wrote: Nor has there ever been an official explanation (as far as I'm aware) for Orn Free Taa having two extra lekku and only four fingers...
I believe in the EU a sufficiently fat Twi'lek's front forehead bumps would develop into secondary lekku, though that doesn't explain the fingers.
Interestingly enough, Xi'an, the Twi'lek from the Mandalorian also doesn't appear to have cones for ears either, following the Lyn Me profile instead. It might just be that there's a lot of variety in the species, but canon has also made it clear that Twi'leks can interbreed with other species (along with Theelins, who could in both Legends and Canon material).
The actual why is that Oola from Return of the Jedi had a headpiece with two cones on the sides over her ears. They're clearly meant to be embellishments made of bone and not part of her body, as backed up in the OT as the special editions added a second female Twi'lek named Lyn Me who clearly doesn't have them. Personally I think someone made a mistake around the time they were designing Aayla Secura and are hoping nobody notices.
It predates Aayla Secura, as the Twi'leks shown with Sebulba in Episode 1 have them.
There seemed to be one at the beginning, but they lost it somewhere on Star Wars street.
But, after their guest spot in Hera's Backstory Hour, we seem to be back on Admiral Evil Guy and Crosshair moving toward the inevitable confrontation with The Squad. [Tarkin apparently said 'screw this noise, something something battlestation']
I'll wager on one more cameo from New Bounty Hunter Lady and maybe Boba Himself, and then we're back on for Final Confrontation where the Mentor Dies, Crosshair is kinda-sorta 'redeemed' (but not really), and Omega bravely leads the squad on towards her own cameos in other shows.
The latest episode really felt like pure filler to me, which is surprising given we are nearing the end of the season (so you'd think they'd move the plot, such as it is, along).
On the one hand, I'd like more episodic series that didn't try to have overlong drawn out myth arcs. On the other hand, most of the stand alone episodes for the Bad Batch mostly show how shallow the show's base concept is. The characters just aren't quite 'that' interesting, and are actually more boring than the world around them. Despite that, the show isn't really using the setting to maximum effort.
I think it says something when the cameo characters like Cad Bane draw more interest than the main cast, I feel like the Bad Batch crew are just going through the motions of the plot than having any actual real agency.
May as well rename it the Bad Batch to "Dad, Catch" featuring Omega.
Grimskul wrote: I think it says something when the cameo characters like Cad Bane draw more interest than the main cast, I feel like the Bad Batch crew are just going through the motions of the plot than having any actual real agency.
May as well rename it the Bad Batch to "Dad, Catch" featuring Omega.
I think that’s exactly my issue.
We’ve got the four Clones, and none really feel central to a given plot beyond being super competent soldiers.
I should note for arguements sake people felt SW rebels wasn't going anywhere in season 1. so we'll see how it all works out, assuming this isn't our only season I expect the plan is to have everything tie in in a big season finalle that sets the stage for later stuff........ just like SW Rebels. Bad Batch has, thus far, felt pretty formul,aic.
BrianDavion wrote: at least one website has said they are willing to confirm the casting of Mena Massoud as Ezra Bridger and Lars Mikkelson as Thrawn
I've seen multiple reports of that so it seems likely but nothing official yet - cast for both Ahsoka and Mando season 3. Various other reports also that while they have the actors they are filming across the various shows. Temuera Morrison is rumoured to be filming scenes for Obi-Wan as Commander Cody and there will be flash backs to the Clone Wars so Hayden is playing both Anakin and Vader - he's grown his hair out to Clone Wars era Anakin style. Lots of de-ageing going to be needed. I wonder if a younger Ahsoka might pop up in live action. Rupert Friend rumoured to be Kallus and Sung Kang as the 5th Brother in Obi-Wan.
There's also an image of Grogu and Luke with Grogu making his lighsaber with a yellow Kyber crystal - its a licenced piece for Comicon but not directly from Lucasfilm.
With regard to Bad Batch the last episode wasn't great they are just threading water not surprising that the viewing figures aren't great and season 2 has yet to be confirmed.
Grimskul wrote: I think it says something when the cameo characters like Cad Bane draw more interest than the main cast, I feel like the Bad Batch crew are just going through the motions of the plot than having any actual real agency.
May as well rename it the Bad Batch to "Dad, Catch" featuring Omega.
I think that’s exactly my issue.
We’ve got the four Clones, and none really feel central to a given plot beyond being super competent soldiers.
Pretty much. There hasn't been much development on them or their backstory beyond the tropes each one is known for. I feel at this point Crosshair has had the most development so far of the core group and his development so far is being brainwashed into being obsessed with murdering his former team and getting maimed Mustafar style with some 3rd degree burns.
Wrecker has had some decent development. But honestly? I couldn’t tell you the other three’s names off the top of my head.
On the bright side, all the other aminations took a season to really find their feet. And I do feel like someone in the writing room is holding back.
Each episode is perfectly fine, and when I watch them again it will be far from under duress. But as a whole, it feels kinda loose and disjointed.
But hey, still three episodes to go, and as a lens onto immediately post-Republic Empire, there’s a lot they could do - and when they focus on that they have my attention.
... in what way?
Presumably the finale will do one or more of the following: wrap up Crosshair/Batch,
make them decide to be useful people (join the Rebellion)
Someone dies
Set up next season or sequel in some other show.
If you're waiting for some moment of revelation or... awe? I don't think we've been watching the same show.
Voss wrote: ... in what way?
Presumably the finale will do one or more of the following: wrap up Crosshair/Batch,
make them decide to be useful people (join the Rebellion)
Someone dies
Set up next season or sequel in some other show.
If your waiting for some moment of revelation or... awe? I don't think we've been watching the same show.
I'm more thinking the finalle of Season 1 of rebels where all the little subplots seemed to come together and actually build something.
other then that I expect the ending will be more or less what you're suggesting
I'm usually on the 'character development' bandwagon, but yeah, this last episode didn't really establish or consolidate anything that the 'Omega hangs out with Cid and makes her a tonne of money' subplot a few episodes ago didn't do.
They really do need to do more for Tech and for Echo. Right now, there is WAY too much overlap between them and they need to like, individualise them more, highlight their differences.
Or, y'know, kill one off. But it'd be weird to kill off Echo, again.
I'd say they've done a good job of establishing the bond with Omega, Wrecker and Hunter though.
But yeah, I at least, really disliked Rebels until the last couple of episodes of the first season, when the 'incompetent comic relief 80's villain badguy henchmen' got surprise lightsabered, then everything changed and it's one of my favourite pieces of animation now.
But yeah, I at least, really disliked Rebels until the last couple of episodes of the first season, when the 'incompetent comic relief 80's villain badguy henchmen' got surprise lightsabered, then everything changed and it's one of my favourite pieces of animation now.
Even that is too little, too late. I gave up on Rebels about the time of the 'Erza enrolls in an Imperial School' episode. Fortunately, cartoons don't count. ;-)
Agreed on Rebels being worthwhile. It and Clone Wars are a large part of why I felt positive about Star Wars in spite of the sequel trilogy.
I wouldn't call its first season a slog, though. Bad Batch seems a lot slower to get to any kind of point while Rebels season one at least had Ezra's training and the gradual lockdown of Lothal as recurring themes that tied the episodes together and led to the finale.
Like others I hope to see a similar finale happen with the remaining episodes of Bad Batch that tie everything shown so far together, but it's kind of hard to believe there's much to come at this time.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Rebels is definitely worth revisiting. The first season is definitely a slog, but what follows is genuinely brilliant.
Stakes! Consequnces! Intrigue!
It's just so.... arrrgghhh! The infantile 'hi-jinks' between Erza, the R2-D2 proxie and the Chewie proxie have me grinding my teeth. The villains of the show make 'the old caretaker' from Scooby-Do, Where Are You? look like Hannibal Lecter, and Erza... he's so grating even Yoda would've shot him in the back of the head.
I'd almost argue you can just start with the season 1 finale and go from there. The characters grow so much past that point that there's very little you can't pick up on just from the archetypes they play up to that point.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Rebels is definitely worth revisiting. The first season is definitely a slog, but what follows is genuinely brilliant.
Stakes! Consequnces! Intrigue!
It's just so.... arrrgghhh! The infantile 'hi-jinks' between Erza, the R2-D2 proxie and the Chewie proxie have me grinding my teeth. The villains of the show make 'the old caretaker' from Scooby-Do, Where Are You? look like Hannibal Lecter, and Erza... he's so grating even Yoda would've shot him in the back of the head.
I'd argue the infantile hi-jinks between Ezra, Chopper and Zeb are an important part of the experience because
Spoiler:
they grow up. OK, Chopper doesn't, but that's why we love Chopper. But the theme of loss of youthful exuberance/innocence is part of the journey and the changing tone throughout the show relies on the large distance between starting point and end point.
Your points aren't wrong at all, but it gets better and at least to a degree I believe the show is more effective for starting out the way it does.
The ones that looked like Clone Commandos were Clone Commandos. The proto-Stormtroopers looked like regular Stormtroopers but with a heavier skull cap.
A good bit more like it, as we’re seeing galactic developments.
Literally what I wanted to see 7 episodes ago. Pretty good, though.
Except the rescuee could have been useful or relevant somehow. (beyond 'was probably a specific clone in season Y episode XX of clone wars, obviously.')
Yeah, this was ultimately just another 'Introduce a Rebels character' episode.
I'm curious if the shutting down of Kamino will still be a battle (as it was in the old EU) or if killing the Prime Minister was all they're going to cover of it. No idea if this has already been dealt with in the new continuity, as I haven't been keeping up with anything outside of the movies and tv series...
There is clone commando armour AND early mk TK armour.
Rebels ALSO used this design of TK armour.
As for the toys thing, yeah. After the big-boy toy companies knocked them back, they reached out to a small toy company Kenner and pretty much pulled them into the big league.
insaniak wrote: Yeah, this was ultimately just another 'Introduce a Rebels character' episode.
the early mark TK armor IIRC is based off ralph mcquarrie concept art, so.. no suprise there.
as for introducing a rebels character...... umm
Spoiler:
gregor first appered in clone wars. namely the episode "missing in action"
not sure I agree with those who say nothing happened. this is clearly setting up for the big season finalle. and it's pretty obvious what's going to happen.
[/spoiler]Omega will hatch a plan to rescue Hunter, possiably because crosshair will use him as bait for a trap, she'll call in all the various friends etc they've made over the past season to make her plan work.. etc.. [/spoiler]
if this sounds familer BTW thats because this is more or less how rebels season 1 ended
Star Wars wrote:The dark side strikes back in a terrifying way this October. LEGO Star Wars Terrifying Tales, an Original Special, starts streaming October 1 on @DisneyPlus
Fixed (Previewed fine then half the post gets eaten...)