OHH SWEET GOD THE CLIFF HANGER! DAMNIT WHY YOU DO THIS TO ME FILONI!
Spoiler:
I was unsuprised by crosshairs being all "I had my chip removed, this is me" it'll be intreasting how they try to redeem the character, I think though that while he likes the empire what he truely wishes is the comraderie again, something'll proably happen to make him realize the empire DOESN'T give a gak about him etc, we know season 2 will be a thing so I'm curious if this'll be a season 2 character arc or if they'll rush it in the finale episode
Well, I'm glad there were some convenient bots to blow up. Yay, team. Very dramatic post-preemptive betrayal murder brawl against incapable opponents. Woo. (Side congratulations to 'genius strategist' for... creating the minor inconvenience for her own side).
They need to work on the timing of parallel scenes. Crosshair and company go straight to Kamino and straight to the clone staging area or whatever, but somehow they're still walking down the corridor while the Batch goes to a different planet, repairs the ship, and then goes to Kamino.
Anyway, it didn't actually happen the way I expected it to. It was... way more boring than that. I guess they can squeeze in a real confrontation in the last episode, but I'm not sure they'll even bother.
Revised expectation: Crosshair goes walkabout to get his head together for season 2, various cameos show up to talk to them, say goodbye, and the scenes will somehow be scored to be sad and whatever (for some reason), and the Batch signs up with ??? to do Rebel things. Yay season 2, I guess.
BrianDavion wrote: OHH SWEET GOD THE CLIFF HANGER! DAMNIT WHY YOU DO THIS TO ME FILONI!
??
The robot or someone will know a convenient escape vehicle/transport to their ship. The opening credits will take longer than the resolution of this 'cliff hanger.'
Although I did just start over again today, to introduce my daughters to the series, so I'll no doubt get to whatever I missed before too long.
As it turns out, I appear to have missed a chunk of CW series 1 the first time through as well... We're about halfway through S1, and the girls are loving it.
I was somewhat amused to note that all of the stuff that so many 'hardcore fans' complained about with this show, my 8 and 5 year old absolutely love. Padme and Ahsoka (and Grievous!) are their favourite characters. They think Ahsoka calling Anakin 'Skyguy' is hilarious (although agree with me that 'Artooey' is just a step too far ), the bumbling battle droids are great (youngest's favourite scene so far is from Ep1, where Yoda tricks the droids into shooting each other), they thought Stinky the Hutt was cute, and that Jar Jar is amusing.
They've also both asked for lightsabers for Christmas, and are spending a large amount of time pretending to be various characters, or just running around making 'pew pew' noises. It's a hell of a lot of fun getting to experience all of this again through their eyes.
hotsauceman1 wrote: People dont like ahsoka in the first season because she is annoying and a little grating....
Not realizing she is meant to be that and she grows.
I don't think it's a viewer's fault for not liking a character who is being portrayed as unlikeable. Moot as the point is as Clone Wars was a success and the 'tactic' if you can call it that, was used again with Erza. I guess the trick is having enough stuff in the show you keep the audience watching long enough to see the 'personal growth'.
I never had an issue with Ashoka, hell the minute I realized how brash etc she was I was smirking, remember Anakin didn't CHOOSE her, Yoda ASSIGNED her. the old muppet did so for a reason. Assigning her to Anakin would force Anakin to grow because he'd have to "be the responsable one" Ashoka would also grow because rather then coasting on talent, she'd be forced to work as hard as she could just to keep up.
I don't think its JUST Ahsoka. The entire Clone Wars series got off to a rocky start. It's very padded with a ton of cringey episodes until it finds what works and changes things up to find a good balance in tone.
LunarSol wrote: I don't think its JUST Ahsoka. The entire Clone Wars series got off to a rocky start. It's very padded with a ton of cringey episodes until it finds what works and changes things up to find a good balance in tone.
we've had several SW TV series by now, so it's easy to forget that when TCW came out they where BASICLY in uncharted territory.
LunarSol wrote: I don't think its JUST Ahsoka. The entire Clone Wars series got off to a rocky start. It's very padded with a ton of cringey episodes until it finds what works and changes things up to find a good balance in tone.
we've had several SW TV series by now, so it's easy to forget that when TCW came out they where BASICLY in uncharted territory.
I think both of these are true.
The first season of CW especially is very clunky. Subsequent seasons gradually improved on things until the show kind of hit a stride in season 4 I think. By then, Rebels and other shows were probably already benefiting from production experience gained from Clone Wars.
What’s there is pretty enjoyable, but it just did feel finale.
Spoiler:
However, the Imperial Base at the end is a gorgeous bit of design. I wonder that given we’re likely to see it again, whether we’ll see it become ever more industrial.
And just what plans are in store for Nala Se? Surely it can’t just be “clone the Emperor”?
It wrapped the season up fine overall not a bad season but too much filler in the middle and relies a bit too much on Omega although they do point out this episode that she is actually older that clone force 99.
Spoiler:
I'm sure the Empire will have Nala Se working on the cloning of Palpatine but also there is the small matter of Snoke or proto Snokes to deal with as they haven't explored that yet and they said they'd come back to it later. Also interesting to see the human scientist with the Kamino symbol and uniform like Dr. Pershing from the Mandalorian
The... blasted city _landed_ on the transport tunnel, and everything was fine? I gave the show too much credit.
I could go into a long list of nitpicks (dragon turtle cameo, breached hulls and cracked glass not flooding, etc), but mostly I'm amazed at how much the Batch were jerks to Crosshair, even when he was being useful, helpful and saving Omega. Not even a basic thank you or acknowledgement, except from her.
Drowned Rat Omega is far more adorable than 'crested mountain range hair' Omega.
And... yeah, ended on a cool looking base that we didn't get to see.
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Overall, that was a uninteresting end to a lackluster show of wasted potential.
It had a brief moment of honest emotion when they were watching the clone incubators flare and die, but that was seriously it.
I was surprised with all the cameos and new friends made not a single one helped out or made an appearance in the finale. Hell, not even the clone/s they saved that got Hunter captured. They saved him, and then he was just gone. Thanks for getting me out of there. Shame about your buddy. Later!
Guess we know where all the Republic Commandos went after the war.
Anyway, yeah, that was a very dark episode. Literally. It was very dark, and it made seeing things quite hard. It also meant that your big finale was mostly in the dark.
Overall that was a fine episode, but a poor season finale. Also saving EZ was a cop-out.
insaniak wrote: I was somewhat amused to note that all of the stuff that so many 'hardcore fans' complained about with this show, my 8 and 5 year old absolutely love.
The Clone Wars movie, the one that came out in cinemas, wasn't particularly good. And Ahsoka rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, but over time people grew to love her.
I couldn't stand her at first, and now she's one of my 3 fav SW characters alongside Luke and Vader. Ahsoka is my D+ avatar.
The tonal whiplash with Clone Wars, especially in those first 3 seasons, is exhausting. It vacillates constantly between "slapstick kids comedy" and "OMG people are dying everywhere!" is kinda nuts. One minute you have Jar Jar knocking over dinner plates, the next Clones wiping out Geonosians with flamethrowers, or Ahsoka getting in multi-decapitations on Death Watch Mandos.
And even if Clone Wars was made for kids, the people making it didn't seem to get that memo half the time in the early days, and none of the time on the latter days (Season 5 is dark...). Additionally, the audience grew up as the show went on, meaning the people who started as kids weren't necessarily kids by the time it ended (the first time... and certainly the second time).
Hopefully it’ll kick things up a few notches come season 2. In particular, just what is Crosshairs going to do?
Well. I guess The Book of Boba Fett hype train starts here?
Whilst I’ve not exactly been seeking them out, I’ve not picked up any rumours via the usual online osmosis. The Wiki article doesn’t list any cast beyond Temuera Morrison and Ming-Na Wen. Though I see Robert “has he made a duff film?*” Rodriguez directed several of the episodes.
Given he’s the man behind Desperado, Machete and Spy Kids, we could be in for a real treat. And it gives me real hope we might see Danny Trejo crop up, perhaps as a Star Wars take on Machete/Navajas. I’d settle for even just a brief cameo. Because you got to have Danny Trejo. Just makes sense.
*Well, Predators I guess. But there’s still a lot to enjoy in that movie.
insaniak wrote: I was somewhat amused to note that all of the stuff that so many 'hardcore fans' complained about with this show, my 8 and 5 year old absolutely love.
The Clone Wars movie, the one that came out in cinemas, wasn't particularly good. And Ahsoka rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, but over time people grew to love her.
I couldn't stand her at first, and now she's one of my 3 fav SW characters alongside Luke and Vader. Ahsoka is my D+ avatar.
Here is the thing. That movie was not meant to be a movie. It was the first Arc of the show. It was 4 episodes stitched together into a movie. So pacing is off and it doesn't have movie level animation.
insaniak wrote: I was somewhat amused to note that all of the stuff that so many 'hardcore fans' complained about with this show, my 8 and 5 year old absolutely love.
The Clone Wars movie, the one that came out in cinemas, wasn't particularly good. And Ahsoka rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, but over time people grew to love her.
I couldn't stand her at first, and now she's one of my 3 fav SW characters alongside Luke and Vader. Ahsoka is my D+ avatar.
Here is the thing. That movie was not meant to be a movie. It was the first Arc of the show. It was 4 episodes stitched together into a movie. So pacing is off and it doesn't have movie level animation.
Are you two commenting on the same one? Because there were two, and they're very different beasts. The first one was a Samurai Jack-style Jedi superheroes movie where they could faceroll entire armies by themselves.
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HBMC wrote:The tonal whiplash with Clone Wars, especially in those first 3 seasons, is exhausting. It vacillates constantly between "slapstick kids comedy" and "OMG people are dying everywhere!" is kinda nuts. One minute you have Jar Jar knocking over dinner plates, the next Clones wiping out Geonosians with flamethrowers, or Ahsoka getting in multi-decapitations on Death Watch Mandos.
Don't forget the repeated moral message: all pacifists are evil secret traitors, abusive, or just plain stupid. Yay kids shows!
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AduroT wrote:I was surprised with all the cameos and new friends made not a single one helped out or made an appearance in the finale. Hell, not even the clone/s they saved that got Hunter captured. They saved him, and then he was just gone. Thanks for getting me out of there. Shame about your buddy. Later!
Yeah, I was definitely shocked by the lack of cameos or help. But I didn't expect their inevitable (but plodding) escape to be the whole frickkin' episode, either.
The idea they wouldn't get out was so absurd that the episode had no stakes whatsoever.
I think that if you felt the survival of the entirety of the shows' leading ensemble was going to be at stake in any sense when Season 2 was confirmed prior to airing, it is no wonder you were disappointed.
The stakes of the episode all hinged on the relationship between the main 5 and Crosshair, and whether it could be repaired. In that regard I think it succeeded in maintaining a degree of uncertainty, and left it at an intriguing point to move forward.
Azreal13 wrote: I think that if you felt the survival of the entirety of the shows' leading ensemble was going to be at stake in any sense when Season 2 was confirmed prior to airing, it is no wonder you were disappointed.
Its star wars. Killing the mentor figure so the youth can take center stage is pretty much a tradition.
I figured they're be a dramatic death for at least one, though the obvious candidate was Hunter rather than the interchangeable tech guys or Omega's part-time legs. Instead... no one was at risk at any point.
The stakes of the episode all hinged on the relationship between the main 5 and Crosshair, and whether it could be repaired. In that regard I think it succeeded in maintaining a degree of uncertainty, and left it at an intriguing point to move forward.
I found that aspect to be abysmal. The Batch spent the episode crapping on him, and he spent the episode telling Hunter how wrong he was (and ignored his other brothers, despite how terrible it was that they 'abandoned' him). There isn't any uncertainty at all. They agreed to disagree, and fethed off. Naturally season 2 will engineer repeated reasons for them to work together, or simply abandon this plotline as a bad idea.
No one was forced to trust anyone, they didn't cooperate, work together, they just... complained as they walked through the fake challenges on the way to the surface and went their separate ways. Or rather, they left and he... stood on an empty landing platform hours after his side left him for dead? I guess someone will pick him up or something. Or not. Whatever.
Which is pretty much the note the season ended on- a big pile of whatever.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Here is the thing. That movie was not meant to be a movie. It was the first Arc of the show. It was 4 episodes stitched together into a movie. So pacing is off and it doesn't have movie level animation.
I know it was 4 episodes stitched together, and it was out of order with the actual Clone Wars story, as was everything in the first few seasons. As far as the animation quality goes, it was the same as it was throughout the first part of Clone Wars. It was a show that had continuous improvement as time went on.
Voss wrote: Are you two commenting on the same one? Because there were two, and they're very different beasts. The first one was a Samurai Jack-style Jedi superheroes movie where they could faceroll entire armies by themselves.
We are. Besides, the original Clone Wars cartoon didn't get a theatrical release, IIRC.
Voss wrote: Are you two commenting on the same one? Because there were two, and they're very different beasts. The first one was a Samurai Jack-style Jedi superheroes movie where they could faceroll entire armies by themselves.
We are. Besides, the original Clone Wars cartoon didn't get a theatrical release, IIRC.
It also wasn't presented as a movie - it aired in 3 minute episodes over three seasons, and was later released on two DVDs.
I’ve been watching The Mandalorian again today, an act which requires no justification in and of itself.
I’m again drawn to the fact that the Cruiser from the end of Season 2 cannot possibly be the totality of Gideon’s resources.
For a start, in The Heiress, the Gozanti Captain is ordered to rejoin the fleet. A fleet is not just one ship. And if it was just the two of them, why not say “rejoin the flagship”?
Now we know as that class of Cruiser goes, it’s seemingly unusual. Larger than your standard Arquitens, sure. But seemingly more of a science and research vessel, given how poorly it was staffed. Certainly by the time Mando & Chums take the bridge, it’s basically just the Dark Troopers left to fight them.
And what better way to manage your nefarious scheme than to keep your Secret Project well away from your main resources? That way, should the New Republic rumble your main fleet, you’ve got somewhere to run to, and one they won’t necessarily think let alone know to look for.
If he does have a Star Destroyer, then the cruiser would likely be a casualty in any fleet action, given its well dinky and easily overwhelmed - and more of a threat to star fighters by comparison.
Initially there were plenty of Stormtroopers left on the cruiser. They just proceeded to do what Stormtroopers do...
Given Gideon is ISB my take is that he keeps his assets spread out so as not to draw unnecessary attention. He might even emulate the Rebel Alliance in trying to build up strength and position his forces before even thinking about taking back the galaxy. But I don't think that cruiser was his only ship either, nor the biggest military asset at his disposal. It was just the most relevant at the time as the vessel assigned to the research around Grogu, so that's where he hung out.
Incidentally I’m still bummed Boba didn’t take part in the boarding of the cruiser, just because I’d like to have see the reactions when Luke showed up.
DaveC wrote: Star Wars Visions trailer - Disney+ from September 22nd. could be interesting to see what can be done when not tied to the whole Skywalker saga.
Episode 3 Tatooine Rhapsody features Jabba and Boba. Episode 9 is set post Rise of Skywalker.
EDIT: Also concept art for the Bad Batch confirms that Nala Se is in Mount Tantiss on Weyland (Thrawn Trilogy)
Huh, interesting that quite a few franchises are jumping on the anime bandwagon recently. I mean taco bell is using it for their commercials, why not Disney lol.
I'm surprised they got Studio Trigger to do one of them, but first impressions I'm feeling rather ambivalent from what they've shown so far. I feel like if they wanted flashy animations that they could have gotten Genndy Tartakovsky back to do stuff since his Clone Wars series in 2003-5 was badass as hell and I'd love to see his take on stuff after the Empire fell or even during the Galactic Civil War.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: This one I’m dubious about, as I’ve never developed a taste for Anime.
ditto
Ditto.
So... The animatrix but starwars and even less in canon because... light saber whips? This looks exhausting. I can't wait for the monologues that talk down to us to explain the plot and themes.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: This one I’m dubious about, as I’ve never developed a taste for Anime.
ditto
Ditto.
So... The animatrix but starwars and even less in canon because... light saber whips? This looks exhausting. I can't wait for the monologues that talk down to us to explain the plot and themes.
and I really look forward to weebos telling me it's the best thing for star wars ever and even the horriably bad gringe ones are better then "any of that trash in TCW!"
Lance845 wrote: So... The animatrix but starwars and even less in canon because... light saber whips?
We've seen light saber whips before, haven't seen people having sword fights on the roof of a star destroyer flying through space sans helmets though. That said I think the debate over whether or not its canon was settled a few months ago when the initial previews were shown: not canon at all, but a fun creative exercise and an opportunity for various anime studios to play with the license - and maybe give some market feedback to the big mouse upstairs.
That said, I'm really curious about The Duel - clearly set in an alternate universe (or distant, distant past) where the Jedi served the Empire (or 'an' empire) and the Sith are a dangerous sect that split off of them in a civil war? Yes please.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: This one I’m dubious about, as I’ve never developed a taste for Anime.
ditto
To be fair, it's pretty clearly cattering to people who already like anime.
Calling some of these studios famous though is a serious stretch. I'm not sure Kamikaze Douga wants to be famous for making Batman Ninja (which is to my knowledge the only thing they've ever made). Out of the studios listed, only TRIGGER and Production I.G. are actually famous in any sense of the word (and one of them mostly for making Kill la Kill and every meme that comes from it). Twin Engine is new but they can at least put Kabaneri of the Iron Fortress and Vinland Saga under their name and both shows were well received. They did the remake of Dororo too. Kinema Citus did Rising of the Shield Hero but that's the only thing I know of theirs that could be called popular and it's animation wasn't that notable. Science Saru did Space Dandy and Devilman Crybaby, which had great animation work even if the studio isn't particularly famous.
Honestly, most of these animation houses would be better described as up and coming studios rather than famous A few of them are barely a decade old and only have 1-2 hits to their names and 1 can only claim a Batman movie most notable for how bad it was. I mean, I'll watch it if for no other reason than it looks like the animation budget is going to be solid so we'll get some good action scenes, maybe some nice set pieces, music, looks like a few of them try to bring out the 'Jedi' in Jedi if you know what I mean. That might be neat. I'll watch it and probably be amused. I doubt it's going to bring anyone new on board though.
It does make me wonder what a studio like Madhouse or Bones would do with a full series though. But then they're actually famous anime studios and they're not on this project.
EDIT: And I stand corrected. Kamikaze Douga are the guys making the Jojo Bizarre Adventure adaptations, so they do actually have something people like in their wheelhouse.
Douga specifically did the openings animations for JoJo - and in general they're more known for commercials and cutscenes and the like. I'm pretty confident they can deliver, especially if they're not expected to fill a long runtime like they had to with Batman Ninja.
More importantly: the first entry in the set is going to make or break people's expectations of the series - I suspect The Duel is going to be one of the strongest entries.
Lance845 wrote: So... The animatrix but starwars and even less in canon because... light saber whips?
We've seen light saber whips before, ...
Indeed. Lumiya used one in the Star Wars comics from 1985, and more recently Kit Fisto made one in one of the Clone Wars novels. Fairly sure there was a Nightsister with one in the Star Wars Miniatures range as well. So definitely not a new idea.
Well thats dumb as hell and defies all the talk of how a lightsaber is supposed to work. Being what amounts to super heated plasma contained within a field does not leave room for flexibility like a whip. Not unless its a multitude of blades within a chain of emitters or some crap. Which you know... wouldn't hold up to another lightsaber at all.
Lance845 wrote: Well thats dumb as hell and defies all the talk of how a lightsaber is supposed to work. Being what amounts to super heated plasma contained within a field does not leave room for flexibility like a whip. Not unless its a multitude of blades within a chain of emitters or some crap. Which you know... wouldn't hold up to another lightsaber at all.
Whatever.
There's a lot of ways you could rationalize it. The explanation for Lumiya's was, if I recall, that the cord of her whip had small lightsaber crystals woven throughout (and at the time of writing the crystals were strictly a focusing medium rather than the nebulously defined power source/converter it is today) and the idea that they were held in place by a field wasn't even a thing in 85.
The linked emitters idea isn't that out there, considering what we know about lightsaber resistant materials like beskar, but the easiest explanation of all is that the force field that captures the plasma doesn't necessarily need to be in the shape of straight rod to be effective - compare to the beam saber technology in Gundam, which used the same principles to create curved blades, shields, and even large banners to communicate across great distances.
Of course, the actual explanation is that the entire piece is going to be really impressionist and stylized - leaning as hard as it can into fantasy.
Of course, the actual explanation is that the entire piece is going to be really impressionist and stylized - leaning as hard as it can into fantasy.
Which, it should be remembered, Star Wars already leans heavily into. Visions as a whole seems to embrace the influence of the samurai genre, fantasy, and space opera facets of the original material, really. Star wars was never really sci-fi in the stricter sense of the genre. Though at that point we're quibbling and should probably just chill and enjoy the show.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: This one I’m dubious about, as I’ve never developed a taste for Anime.
ditto
To be fair, it's pretty clearly cattering to people who already like anime.
Calling some of these studios famous though is a serious stretch. I'm not sure Kamikaze Douga wants to be famous for making Batman Ninja (which is to my knowledge the only thing they've ever made). Out of the studios listed, only TRIGGER and Production I.G. are actually famous in any sense of the word (and one of them mostly for making Kill la Kill and every meme that comes from it). Twin Engine is new but they can at least put Kabaneri of the Iron Fortress and Vinland Saga under their name and both shows were well received. They did the remake of Dororo too. Kinema Citus did Rising of the Shield Hero but that's the only thing I know of theirs that could be called popular and it's animation wasn't that notable. Science Saru did Space Dandy and Devilman Crybaby, which had great animation work even if the studio isn't particularly famous.
Honestly, most of these animation houses would be better described as up and coming studios rather than famous A few of them are barely a decade old and only have 1-2 hits to their names and 1 can only claim a Batman movie most notable for how bad it was. I mean, I'll watch it if for no other reason than it looks like the animation budget is going to be solid so we'll get some good action scenes, maybe some nice set pieces, music, looks like a few of them try to bring out the 'Jedi' in Jedi if you know what I mean. That might be neat. I'll watch it and probably be amused. I doubt it's going to bring anyone new on board though.
It does make me wonder what a studio like Madhouse or Bones would do with a full series though. But then they're actually famous anime studios and they're not on this project.
EDIT: And I stand corrected. Kamikaze Douga are the guys making the Jojo Bizarre Adventure adaptations, so they do actually have something people like in their wheelhouse.
That’s entirely fair.
My general “meh” to “thanks, I hate it” reaction to anime by no means should inform anyone else. More just bummed I might miss out on cool stories.
Easy E wrote: What took so long, considering Star Wars originated from the same sources as anime?
Anime's an art style dude, SOME animes may come from similer sources but trying to claim it all did is a stretch.
I think you misunderstood him, I think he means like how Japan influenced the creation of Star Wars since George Lucas credits The Hidden Fortress by Akira Kurosawa as a major inspiration and how Vader's helmet is based on the Samurai armour aesthetic. You could also argue that the Jedi are pretty much East Asian warrior monks in space.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: This one I’m dubious about, as I’ve never developed a taste for Anime.
I had some taste for it back in my college days, these days I don't have the time to watch dubs (can't stand most subs, because the voice actors are... poor choices, most of the time) Also got a little tired of the genres limited tropes, time wasting and fetishes.
These though... wow. If I wanted to do the work, I could just name the shows and studios they're trying to just flatly copy into Star Wars with no consideration for the setting or its themes, feel or tropes.
That was just grotesquely caricatured weeabo stereotypes all the way down.
That video felt kinda gross, in an 'exploitation flick' kind of way.
Grimskul wrote: I think you misunderstood him, I think he means like how Japan influenced the creation of Star Wars since George Lucas credits The Hidden Fortress by Akira Kurosawa as a major inspiration and how Vader's helmet is based on the Samurai armour aesthetic. You could also argue that the Jedi are pretty much East Asian warrior monks in space.
The word Jedi literally comes from Jidaigeki, a Japanese film genre that's basically period pieces mostly focused on the Edo Period. The stances and sword fighting choreography for the original trilogy is straight out of classic Japanese cinema.
The be specific, the Jedi are basically Space Samurai and the philosophies about the Force are an overt pastiche of Zen Buddhism.
Grimskul wrote: I think you misunderstood him, I think he means like how Japan influenced the creation of Star Wars since George Lucas credits The Hidden Fortress by Akira Kurosawa as a major inspiration and how Vader's helmet is based on the Samurai armour aesthetic. You could also argue that the Jedi are pretty much East Asian warrior monks in space.
The word Jedi literally comes from Jidaigeki, a Japanese film genre that's basically period pieces mostly focused on the Edo Period. The stances and sword fighting choreography for the original trilogy is straight out of classic Japanese cinema.
The be specific, the Jedi are basically Space Samurai and the philosophies about the Force are an overt pastiche of Zen Buddhism.
And Wagner and Tolkein both borrowed from Norse mythology but would anyone say "ohh why haven't they made a LOTR opera yet, it borrows from the same sources as opera"?
as I said anime's a pretty wide boat, and trying to link all anime together is as silly as trying to say Batman TAS is the same as Loony Toons (in fact at least Batman TAS and Loony toons are owned by the same company)
Lance845 wrote: Well thats dumb as hell and defies all the talk of how a lightsaber is supposed to work. Being what amounts to super heated plasma contained within a field does not leave room for flexibility like a whip. Not unless its a multitude of blades within a chain of emitters or some crap. Which you know... wouldn't hold up to another lightsaber at all.
As it happens, lightwhips were considerably weaker than regular lightsabers, as a result of their design.
Really, though, technology in Star Wars has always been a 'look cool first, explain how it works later' type of deal. The vast majority of the audience doesn't care how any of it actually works.
Nevelon wrote: Rule of Cool covers a LOT of sins in the SW universe.
Maybe for you. I find it exposes more sins in every universe, as it almost always comes out as Rule of Stupid.
Its like waving a flag and attracting attention specifically to the things that just don't work.
Nevelon wrote: Rule of Cool covers a LOT of sins in the SW universe.
Maybe for you. I find it exposes more sins in every universe, as it almost always comes out as Rule of Stupid.
Its like waving a flag and attracting attention specifically to the things that just don't work.
Star Wars, like a lot of space opera, is fine on the surface, but dig a little deeper and it all unravels. Certainly not unique in this flaw.
Everyone has their own break point. That one thing were you say “too far, we’re just getting silly now” I’ve had my share of them over the years with SW.
Anime starts over the top as a genre, generally. (I’ll admit to sweeping generalizations here, it’s a big body of varied work). Master swordsman cutting giant mecha in half with a katana? Seen it a few times. Also, with lightsabers in a galaxy far, far, away. Realistic? Nope. Entertaining? I generally enjoy it.
I’m not saying it’s a turn your brain off and have a couple of beers before watching. But for some things you just need to realize they are silly over the top. As long as they are more-or-less internally consistent, I’m fine with just going along for the wild ride.
As long as they are more-or-less internally consistent
Well, that's the obvious problem, isn't it? A 9 pronged laser whip duel while on top of a space ship and no one anywhere wearing any kind of protective suit is taking internal consistency and doing horrible things to its corpse.
As long as they are more-or-less internally consistent
Well, that's the obvious problem, isn't it? A 9 pronged laser whip duel while on top of a space ship and no one anywhere wearing any kind of protective suit is taking internal consistency and doing horrible things to its corpse.
Is it, though? For one, there's no context for that scene, and no way to tell from what's shown in the teaser if those star destroyers are in space, or in atmosphere at night. And we're talking about a setting where, in what's widely regarded as the best entry in the franchise, regular humans climb out of their ship on an asteroid and walk around with nothing more than a face mask.
If you're still looking for scientific veracity 40 years later, you're in the wrong place.
Lets be clear; SW was never written with any internal consistency and even less scientific veracity. There were no rules, pretty much everything happens because it looks cool.
People have been trying to enforce rules on the property for decades, which has lead to ever increasingly outlandish definitions to force every new detail that doesn't fit the fandom back into the rigidly defined box.
In a lot of ways, there's been good that's come out of this, but others, most notably the Force itself, have really helped the fanbase kill what made the original films so special in the first place.
Easy E wrote: "Master Qui-Gon, what's a Midochloridian"
Speaking of killing what made the Force cool.....
I never really had an issue with this as I assumed it was a simplified explination of a very complex subject. Anakin was, after all, a ten year old boy with no education
My head canon is Midichorlians feed of minute traces of the force.
So they are around force sensitives, and the stronger you are in the forcem the more you have in you.
Ergo, its a measurement of force ability, but not the force itself
hotsauceman1 wrote: My head canon is Midichorlians feed of minute traces of the force.
So they are around force sensitives, and the stronger you are in the forcem the more you have in you.
Ergo, its a measurement of force ability, but not the force itself
yeah I've always seen midichlorians as more a "side effect" of force sensitivyt, not a cause
As long as they are more-or-less internally consistent
Well, that's the obvious problem, isn't it? A 9 pronged laser whip duel while on top of a space ship and no one anywhere wearing any kind of protective suit is taking internal consistency and doing horrible things to its corpse.
Is it, though? For one, there's no context for that scene, and no way to tell from what's shown in the teaser if those star destroyers are in space, or in atmosphere at night. And we're talking about a setting where, in what's widely regarded as the best entry in the franchise, regular humans climb out of their ship on an asteroid and walk around with nothing more than a face mask.
If you're still looking for scientific veracity 40 years later, you're in the wrong place.
Yes, it is. 'Internal consistency' is not 'scientific veracity,' feel free to not care, but don't gaslight the issue as something it isn't.
The point was that we're not really given enough information from that clip to know whether it's consistent with previous background or just anime hyperbole. However. laser whips have existed in the setting since 1985. And I'm fairly sure the old EU had at least one example of a Jedi using the force to protect themselves from the vacuum of space.
It might not be what you personally are looking for from the franchise, but I don't see anything more absurd about a couple of force users fighting on top of a Star Destroyer than, say, Anakin and Obi-wan fighting while leaping around on melting metal structures floating in lava.
People do need to realize that the void of space is not immediately lethal. As long as you had some sort of oxygen source, your exposed flesh is perfectly fine in perfect vacuum for at least the short term. You're not going to freeze because vacuum is a great insulator, it takes a long time for a body, especially a living body, to lose heat when it can only lose it via radiation. Its actually myth that corpses in space will freeze immediately and/or explode from their own internal pressure. A fresh body would actually take days to lose its heat because the vacuum would insulate it. Its why thermoses can keep your drinks hot or cold for so long.
Lack of pressure is also not an issue. The human body can handle multiple atmospheres of pressure without ill-effects, experiencing 0 atmospheres of pressure is trivial.
The only real immediate danger of space to an exposed human body, assuming you have a method of breathing like a helmet or something, is solar radiation. And that is still a relative danger. If there is something between you and the star, its going to be blocked. Simple unsealed clothing or armor could provide sufficient protection too.
In the event you did get tossed into space alive and with only normal clothes, no helmet or anything, it wouldn't be pleasant to be sure. The water in your mouth, eyes, etc... would start boiling away, which would chill you slightly. Your lungs would depressurize, painfully, but it wouldn't do lethal damage. No, you would just die a slowish boring death from suffocation.
This is of course assuming that Space in Star Wars is the same as real space IRL. Given that sound apparently exists in space in star wars, it might be more of an Aether than true vacuum. IE: Space in star wars is actually an extremely thin atmosphere that extends everywhere.
As long as they are more-or-less internally consistent
Well, that's the obvious problem, isn't it? A 9 pronged laser whip duel while on top of a space ship and no one anywhere wearing any kind of protective suit is taking internal consistency and doing horrible things to its corpse.
But more or less than doing that while charging with cavalry on the top of the hull of a star destroyer?
Even the ... "official"? explanation of lightsabers as quoted by Lance845 is nonsense, so having laser whips as well is fine by me. Along with walking around in a stomach wearing only a facemask, surviving re-entry in a spaceship with a broken front window and no engines and of course all the other ways that Star Wars "space" isn't like reality.
I like the one in that trailer that's done to look like charcoal drawings in mostly black and white, but the others, I'm not sure about. I'm not a fan of the pointy chin and big eyes look, so it's putting me off. I'll probably give it a go when it comes out, though. Perhaps actually getting into the characters and stories will get me over the look of it.
My main problem with anime has been mostly that I don't get all the cultural references and baggage, due not being Japanese (I have the same problem with American teen high school stories). Perhaps as these are all in a setting I already understand I'll be able to engage with it more.
Sure. But when those rules are largely made up by the fans rather than the people producing the material, it's a little unreasonable to expect them to be applied.
Well the issue is it wasn't REALLY made by the fans. It was made by a host of EU authors who were given carte blanche to do what they want, including contradicting each other. The end result is some fans read these books and some fans read those books and so they each have their own idea of the canon. All officially licensed btw. Just not monitored or controlled.
As long as they are more-or-less internally consistent
Well, that's the obvious problem, isn't it? A 9 pronged laser whip duel while on top of a space ship and no one anywhere wearing any kind of protective suit is taking internal consistency and doing horrible things to its corpse.
But more or less than doing that while charging with cavalry on the top of the hull of a star destroyer?
I'm not sure 'lets do more of the things that made 7-9 terrible' is the way to go?
Regardless of genre format.
As long as they are more-or-less internally consistent
Well, that's the obvious problem, isn't it? A 9 pronged laser whip duel while on top of a space ship and no one anywhere wearing any kind of protective suit is taking internal consistency and doing horrible things to its corpse.
But more or less than doing that while charging with cavalry on the top of the hull of a star destroyer?
I'm not sure 'lets do more of the things that made 7-9 terrible' is the way to go?
Regardless of genre format.
Thing is, unlike these shorts, that is canon. Just like is canon that you only need a dinky transparent breathing mask to survive in hard vacuum, at least while you're inside a giant worm inside an asteroid (but given theiy didn't know that, I'd say it's just "surviving hard vacuum inside an asteroid").
As long as they are more-or-less internally consistent
Well, that's the obvious problem, isn't it? A 9 pronged laser whip duel while on top of a space ship and no one anywhere wearing any kind of protective suit is taking internal consistency and doing horrible things to its corpse.
But more or less than doing that while charging with cavalry on the top of the hull of a star destroyer?
I'm not sure 'lets do more of the things that made 7-9 terrible' is the way to go?
Regardless of genre format.
rise of Rey was hardly the first time we've seen fighting atop the hull of ships.
chromedog wrote: I'm not a fan of the animation style for the SW "what if" thing, so I'll give it a miss.
Just a general dislike of the anime aesthetic? This comment stuck out at me because every episode is a different studio and thus a different animation style as well.
chromedog wrote: I'm not a fan of the animation style for the SW "what if" thing, so I'll give it a miss.
Just a general dislike of the anime aesthetic? This comment stuck out at me because every episode is a different studio and thus a different animation style as well.
Yeah but all the ANIME style. You know, low frame rates. beautifully rendered still images that someone will talk over. Static faces. Janky movements. Action lines because how else are you going to convey movement when you are not actually animating it? Little cartoon tear drops floating next to somebody's head because drawing emotions on someones face is too hard. That kind of thing.
It doesn't matter if you get 100 different artists to create shows in their distinct artistic style if they are all in the anime style.
chromedog wrote: I'm not a fan of the animation style for the SW "what if" thing, so I'll give it a miss.
Just a general dislike of the anime aesthetic? This comment stuck out at me because every episode is a different studio and thus a different animation style as well.
Yeah but all the ANIME style. You know, low frame rates. beautifully rendered still images that someone will talk over. Static faces. Janky movements. Action lines because how else are you going to convey movement when you are not actually animating it? Little cartoon tear drops floating next to somebody's head because drawing emotions on someones face is too hard. That kind of thing.
It doesn't matter if you get 100 different artists to create shows in their distinct artistic style if they are all in the anime style.
yeah man but only anime has any real good story telling, *said while ignoring the mountains of westren animation with great storytelling!*
Lance845 wrote: Yeah but all the ANIME style. You know, low frame rates. beautifully rendered still images that someone will talk over. Static faces. Janky movements. Action lines because how else are you going to convey movement when you are not actually animating it? Little cartoon tear drops floating next to somebody's head because drawing emotions on someones face is too hard. That kind of thing.
It doesn't matter if you get 100 different artists to create shows in their distinct artistic style if they are all in the anime style.
Is it really necessary to engage in this? You don't have to like it but if we judge an entire genre by its lowest budget efforts, I think all of them come out pretty gakky :/
Nevermind that plenty of big budget projects pour the money into the visuals and still come out like gak. Maybe this will be one of them. One thing that seems really unlikely is that they're working generic season anime series budgets where they string 12-13 episodes out of a couple ten K and minimum effort. If anything, knowing Disney, they'll dump way more money than is warranted and then get all huffy when people still don't like it XD
yeah man but only anime has any real good story telling, *said while ignoring the mountains of westren animation with great storytelling!*
Eh. It's easy for anime fanatics to make that claim. Big effort will be put into some animation projects in Japan and not all of them are for kids. The industry will put out 4-6 pretty good shows a year, 2-3 gems, maybe 1 future classic (and since the vast majority of shows only get a single run, two tops, they don't stick around long enough to become stale). Western animation has way less output and a lot of it is targeted explicitly at kids with little regard for any quality beyond selling toys. We get maybe half the same amount of good gak out of western animation studios but a lot of the difference comes down to sheer volumne. I can see how people would get the impression that anime does it better, but I'd actually put money down that as a percentage anime does worse. For every gem that comes out of Japan, there's like 2 dozen minimum effort cliche fests that are just there to sell little statues of cute anime girls and body pillows to the weebs who take that gak way too seriously.
EDIT: Though there is some irony here in that I'd still hold Avatar the Last Airbender as the best western animated show of the last 20 years and it was heavily influenced by anime. And most of the really good shows coming out of studios since have been heavily influenced by Avatar.
chromedog wrote: I'm not a fan of the animation style for the SW "what if" thing, so I'll give it a miss.
Just a general dislike of the anime aesthetic? This comment stuck out at me because every episode is a different studio and thus a different animation style as well.
It's not a dislike of animation per se.
I just don't like the animation styles used that were shown in the teaser/trailers. I also didn't particularly care for the Tartakovsky clone wars minisodes (the "Samurai Jack" aesthetic).
In the same way I didn't care for about 80% of the EU and very little of the new EU novels appeal to me, either.
I just don't like the animation styles used that were shown in the teaser/trailers. I also didn't particularly care for the Tartakovsky clone wars minisodes (the "Samurai Jack" aesthetic).
In the same way I didn't care for about 80% of the EU and very little of the new EU novels appeal to me, either.
That's fair. I was surprised that all the styles would be a miss for someone. But I totally get that. I was just curious to hear you elaborate.
Lance845 wrote: Yeah but all the ANIME style. You know, low frame rates. beautifully rendered still images that someone will talk over. Static faces. Janky movements. Action lines because how else are you going to convey movement when you are not actually animating it? Little cartoon tear drops floating next to somebody's head because drawing emotions on someones face is too hard. That kind of thing.
It doesn't matter if you get 100 different artists to create shows in their distinct artistic style if they are all in the anime style.
At that point you just have an issue with anime tropes though, that's different than animation style or the way they design characters (which I feel like is usually what people mean when they say anime style). I totally understand being turned off by anime tropes. I don't knock anyone for disliking something because it leans into them.
LordofHats wrote: Is it really necessary to engage in this? You don't have to like it but if we judge an entire genre by its lowest budget efforts, I think all of them come out pretty gakky :/
Not even genre, medium. It's like trying to say that of all movies ever.
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balmong7 wrote: Yeah but all the ANIME style. You know, low frame rates. beautifully rendered still images that someone will talk over. Static faces. Janky movements. Action lines because how else are you going to convey movement when you are not actually animating it? Little cartoon tear drops floating next to somebody's head because drawing emotions on someones face is too hard. That kind of thing.
90% of everything (at least) is gak, be it ANIME, western animation or interpretative dance.
Thinking "it's ANIME,so it's crap" says more about you than about ANIME.
I just don't like the animation styles used that were shown in the teaser/trailers. I also didn't particularly care for the Tartakovsky clone wars minisodes (the "Samurai Jack" aesthetic). In the same way I didn't care for about 80% of the EU and very little of the new EU novels appeal to me, either.
That's fair. I was surprised that all the styles would be a miss for someone. But I totally get that. I was just curious to hear you elaborate.
Lance845 wrote: Yeah but all the ANIME style. You know, low frame rates. beautifully rendered still images that someone will talk over. Static faces. Janky movements. Action lines because how else are you going to convey movement when you are not actually animating it? Little cartoon tear drops floating next to somebody's head because drawing emotions on someones face is too hard. That kind of thing.
It doesn't matter if you get 100 different artists to create shows in their distinct artistic style if they are all in the anime style.
At that point you just have an issue with anime tropes though, that's different than animation style or the way they design characters (which I feel like is usually what people mean when they say anime style). I totally understand being turned off by anime tropes. I don't knock anyone for disliking something because it leans into them.
See I wouldn't call the low frame count, or anything they do to accommodate it, a trope. Anime... which is just Japanese cartoons... Purposefully cut corners to reduce cost. And then it made a crap load of money and they KEPT doing the cost cutting measures. That's not a trope. At the point where they no longer need to it's an artistic decision. Examples that DON'T do that that prove the point? Akira, everything by Studio Ghibili. They maintain a anime style of art while ditching all the artistic choices everyone else always makes. Including the ones in that preview.
A Trope on the other hand would be the Tell, don't Show style of story telling. Where characters have long monologues of nonsense to explain to the audience the themes and plot. THAT is a trope of Anime. Also something I dislike. It's been like 80 years. fething learn how to tell a story.
LordofHats wrote: Is it really necessary to engage in this? You don't have to like it but if we judge an entire genre by its lowest budget efforts, I think all of them come out pretty gakky :/
Not even genre, medium. It's like trying to say that of all movies ever.
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balmong7 wrote: Yeah but all the ANIME style. You know, low frame rates. beautifully rendered still images that someone will talk over. Static faces. Janky movements. Action lines because how else are you going to convey movement when you are not actually animating it? Little cartoon tear drops floating next to somebody's head because drawing emotions on someones face is too hard. That kind of thing.
90% of everything (at least) is gak, be it ANIME, western animation or interpretative dance.
Thinking "it's ANIME,so it's crap" says more about you than about ANIME.
The things I am talking about don't show up in 90% of anime. They show up in 99.9% of anime.
The only examples I have ever seen that break the mold are again, Studio Ghibli and Akira for the animation and most but not all of Cowboy Beebop for the story.
Otherwise, like it or not. Good or not. There is better animation in Peppa Pig and better story telling in "If you give a Mouse a Cookie" than just shy of 100% of all anime. Thats not saying I like or dislike any of those stories more or less. It's saying from a technical story telling and animating perspective Anime is over half a century behind.
Lance845 wrote: Anime... which is just Japanese cartoons... Purposefully cut corners to reduce cost.
Everything cuts corners where they can to reduce costs and half the things your complaining about are true of both high and low budget animation projects from inside and outside of Japan.
You think character designs in Avatar leaned heavily on cartoony proportions just to achieve a certain aesthetic? It was easy to draw and cheaper than more detailed designs and they used the money saved on that to produce more dynamic scenes.
And then it made a crap load of money and they KEPT doing the cost cutting measures.
That's because the profit margins in the industry are actually pretty low unless you produce something big. Most anime studios squeeze by year-to-year. Not everyone can fall back on Gunpla and Saber figurines to make millions. A lot of animes will only ever generate a small profit from advertisement, DVD sales, and some merch. Many of them are little more than aired advertisements for a manga or light novel series (which is what people are actually trying to make money from).
The franchises that can boast bigger profits are usually the ones most of your complaints don't apply to at all. See Unlimited Budget Works for an example, pretty sure they actually burned their investors on this one cause future series in the franchise have not be up to par... Actually this happened a lot in 2015 it was a weirdly high quality year for visuals now that I think about it. EDIT: Then again, maybe they're just putting all the money into the intros for Fate/Grand Order cause those things are stupidly quality for what they are.
That's not a trope. At the point where they no longer need to it's an artistic decision. Examples that DON'T do that that prove the point? Akira, everything by Studio Ghibili. They maintain a anime style of art while ditching all the artistic choices everyone else always makes. Including the ones in that preview.
Honestly, this just tells me your extremely unfamiliar with the genre/medium/whatever we call it. Akira and Ghibili are famous in the west. They're not the only game in town and they're far from the only ones who produce that level of work. They're just the ones who hit it big enough to see official global releases into theaters. It's only in the past few years that we've started seeing more films getting big western releases and even then most of them are releasing on streaming sites. I think Promare was the last big budget film to actually take a stab at a theatrical release in the states in conjunction with it's Japanese release.
And even with the streaming stuff, it's like they hide it on the platforms. Unless you really go looking specifically you'd never find A Silent Voice on Netflix under the cheap CGI crap they keep flooding the platform with.
A Trope on the other hand would be the Tell, don't Show style of story telling.
Everyone quotes this line but they've done it so much I'm convinced it's just a way of buttering up a personal opinion about what they do and don't like to try and make something subjective appear objective. Anime isn't really anymore guilty than other kinds of video entertainment in this department even when talking about series like Psycho-Pass that lean heavily into watching two characters sit in a room and engage in exposition about society. You know. Like a whole bunch of shows do.
Where characters have long monologues of nonsense to explain to the audience the themes and plot. THAT is a trope of Anime.
That's certainly true, but do you actually watch anything else this critically? I suspect if you did, you'd notice this is hardly a unique trait of anime. Have you seen Pulp Fiction? It's basically nothing but people talking at each other.
Also something I dislike. It's been like 80 years. fething learn how to tell a story.
Wow. Kind of getting a bit racist about it, don't you think? EDIT: Never mind the sheer ignorance about the history of animation here. You'd almost think there's been no back and forth between east and west when there's been mountains of it.
The things I am talking about don't show up in 90% of anime. They show up in 99.9% of anime.
You're seriously showing that you don't watch anime here. Which is fine. Don't if you don't wanna. But come on. Really?
Yeesh. I didn't think there was this much irrational hatred for anime on this sub-forum. I get it has a bad rep due to some of the less tasteful aspects associated with it and the fact that now its become more mainstream in the West its become "cool" to hate on it, but just like any other form of storytelling it has its ups and downs. This is coming from a guy who was raised in one of the golden ages of western cartoons in the 90's with Batman: TAS, Justice League, Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy, and other later stuff like Venture Bros. But then you also have to acknowledge terrible shows like Johnny Test and the countless horrible Family Guy clones like Crash Canyon and the Cleveland Show.
If you go by the worst denominator of anything then you're going to pretty much hate most of humanity's entertainment industry.
100% agreed with what LordofHats said though, people who say anime as a medium as a whole is garbage has never bothered to actually watch stuff like Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood.
Grimskul wrote: 100% agreed with what LordofHats said though, people who say anime as a medium as a whole is garbage has never bothered to actually watch stuff like Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood.
And I'd consider FAB to mostly be slightly above average except for a few scenes where they really shelled out the cash to make the set pieces look great. Which is becoming more and more of a thing. Example, all of Fate/Apocrypha episode 23;
I wish I knew how much individual episodes cost, because this 4 minutes is better than a lot of feature films, almost the entire episode is on par, and its tucked at the end of a 26 episode series that was above average but not super noteworthy for most of its run >.> Ever since Naruto banked up to make Kakashi's final fight with Obito look good, more series have been finding ways to squeeze their budgets to make the big set pieces pop even if the rest of the show is nothing to write home about.
Nevermind that a few frames of animation in the episode show the writers and animators did more research into Greek Mythology than most people will do in their entire lives, and the only way to even notice it is to read a blog post where the writer explained it (or to have read the original novel, the TV series didn't bother expositing on most of the characters in Apocrypha, which was arguably an issue it ran into because some of the character's specific motivations were hard to discern with the lack of exposition on some very harsh reading between the lines).
Grimskul wrote: 100% agreed with what LordofHats said though, people who say anime as a medium as a whole is garbage has never bothered to actually watch stuff like Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood.
And I'd consider FAB to mostly be slightly above average except for a few scenes where they really shelled out the cash to make the set pieces look great. Which is becoming more and more of a thing. Example, all of Fate/Apocrypha episode 23;
I wish I knew how much individual episodes cost, because this 4 minutes is better than a lot of feature films, almost the entire episode is on par, and its tucked at the end of a 26 episode series that was above average but not super noteworthy for most of its run >.> Ever since Naruto banked up to make Kakashi's final fight with Obito look good, more series have been finding ways to squeeze their budgets to make the big set pieces pop even if the rest of the show is nothing to write home about.
Nevermind that a few frames of animation in the episode show the writers and animators did more research into Greek Mythology than most people will do in their entire lives, and the only way to even notice it is to read a blog post where the writer explained it (or to have read the original novel, the TV series didn't bother expositing on most of the characters in Apocrypha, which was arguably an issue it ran into because some of the character's specific motivations were hard to discern with the lack of exposition on some very harsh reading between the lines).
Yeah, I was mentioning more for FMA:B more for its execution in its storytelling and how it is one of the few series where I didn't find a character too gratuitous or annoying as a caricature. In terms of animation quality, ufotable did a fantastic job doing Demon Slayer: Mugen Train during the fight between Rengoku and Akaza, the soundtrack is a real banger too.
See, I HAVE watched Brotherhood, in it's entirety. Ive seen a LOT of Anime in my youth and I am friends with people who like anime and show me stuff on occasion. I have seen the remake evangelion movies, the original evangelion. Record of the Lodoss Wars. I watched the crap the rolled out on Adult Swim including YuYu Hakusho, Inuyasha, Rirori Kenshin. Some people made me watch some of that garbage Naruto. As a kid me and my brother had the entirety of Dragonball, Z, GT, and the movies including the one where Gokus decendant kid hung out with some dinosaurs and turned super saiyan to trounce a trex. I tried 3 times and could not for the life of me get through the first 15 minutes of Bacano.
I NEVER said bad animation didn't exist in other places. I am saying as a rule it exists in Anime. The budget of this anime-SW series isn't loosing anyone any dollars for doing actual smooth animations. They are just CHOOSING to not do it. I never said exposition doesn't exist in other mediums or that exposition is itself bad. I said Anime does it in terrible ways.
And lets be clear here. There is NOTHING racist about being critical of a particular form of art for it's technical merits. Where a french company mimicked it to make Code Lyoko they bought all the same criticisms onto their animation style as well. My issues are not with Japanese people. It's with Anime.
I went to go see a Ghost in the Shell movie in theaters years ago. And I remember a scene where the guy with robot eyes was driving in the car with someone else. A few moments of silence before "...What is a soul? And if a soul can exist inside of a machine then when is a machine a man? When do we have a right to pass judgement... blah blah blah."
Pulp Fiction is a movie made up mostly of people having conversations. Those conversations are not directly asking the audience the questions posed by the theme of the movie. Do you honestly not see the difference?
There is NOTHING racist about being critical of a particular form of art for it's technical merits
Yeah that was hyperbolic. Sorry.
I'm just having a hard time with this '80 years and they can't tell a good story' thing while rolled up with an extremely narrow range of series, most of which are decades old and are unquestionably better than their contemporaries from the same time. You're complaining about Dragonball but while anime was generating Dragonball western animation was making He-Man and that's just not a contest. Dragonball was better. Storyboard. Animation. Everything. I'd credit the anime craze in the mid-90s with forcing a lot of western studios to step up their game by the 2000s because episodic toy commercials weren't keeping up with imports that were also toy commercials but actually had some meat to go with them. feth, the Pokemon TV series, which is just a toy commercial, had more going for it than most of its immediate competitors at the time and that show is still low effort 20 years later.
And a lot of the early anime we got over here was either a few years old already when we got it (Dragon Ball) or cutting edge at the time (Evangelion/Cowboy Bebop).
And animation budgets were even worse then than they are now.
You're spitting some hottake level stuff that kind of hinges on not liking something and having a very shallow base of knowledge confined mostly to 2 decades. That's a flimsy basis for something as sweeping as characterizing 80 years. I could easily make these same sweeping generalizations about anything and they be equally nonsensical.
Not particularly. For most of your criticisms actually.
A conversation between two people is trying to engage the audience as much as an internal monologue is. One might work better for some people, or both, or neither. There's nothing objectively wrong with an internal monologue from a writing perspective. It's certainly not the style of western media (except when making a gag) but yeah, I'm not seeing a meaningful difference. Probably depends on what's being talked about. Those internal monologues can get pretty word soupy when no one is trying. Other times they provide important context we'd otherwise lack.
Nevermind that my actual given example was that characters sitting statically and talking (like in Psycho-Pass) or chewing the scenery while they do it isn't a particularly anime trait, not as much as you've tried to make it out to be. A lot of your criticisms come down to accusations that anime is cheap (sometimes it is) and low effort (sometimes it is), but that's not really a baring on quality and there isn't a video media style on Earth that doesn't try to shave money off it's budget by cutting corners where it can. Sometimes that's a movie that mostly consists of people in cars and cafes chatting at one another because that's what the production can afford. Other times it's someone on a hill looking at some scenery and monologuing about the meaning of life because that's what the production can afford. I see no important differences here that aren't primarily stylistic.
EDIT: There is probably a cultural basis for the trend in that breaking the fourth wall for any reason other than comedy is usually seen as 'bad' in Western narrative traditions, while it's generally not seen as a big deal in Japan (traditional theater there I know tries to directly involve the audience in the 'experience' of the performance), but I think that's a pretty subjective standard in itself. I can see it as a barrier to enjoying anime since these kinds of monologues can be seen as fourth wall breaking but I've never had issue with it so it might be a matter of acquired taste or different SOD expectations.
There is NOTHING racist about being critical of a particular form of art for it's technical merits
Yeah that was hyperbolic. Sorry.
Apologies accepted.
I'm just having a hard time with this '80 years and they can't tell a good story' thing
This isn't "they can't tell a good story" There are GOOD stories in there. This is poor story telling technique. I LIKE the Arthurian legends. But if you ever actually read them it's complete gak story telling. There is a difference. And that difference comes from being written hundreds of years ago.
while rolled up with an extremely narrow range of series, most of which are decades old and are unquestionably better than their contemporaries from the same time. You're complaining about Dragonball but while anime was generating Dragonball western animation was making He-Man and that's just not a contest. Dragonball was better. Storyboard. Animation. Everything. I'd credit the anime craze in the mid-90s with forcing a lot of western studios to step up their game by the 2000s because episodic toy commercials weren't keeping up with imports that were also toy commercials but actually had some meat to go with them. feth, the Pokemon TV series, which is just a toy commercial, had more going for it than most of its immediate competitors at the time and that show is still low effort 20 years later.
The majority of the studios that did the actual animation of those 80s series were eastern companies. American companies would outsource to those companies. It's not like Transformers is an American thing. But while He-Man was a made for cheap as gak toy commercials, western animation was also doing this..
There is a SIGNIFICANT difference in the quality of ANIMATION that was going on in both cinema and TV that simply wasn't in anime. Akira won awards and gained attention BECAUSE the creator decided to up the frame rate and improve the animation to a more western standard. Anime as a whole is not the cheap nothing of shows that was He-Man and the other Saturday morning toy commercials. A lot of it is geared towards more mature narratives. They just don't invest in it like it is.
And a lot of the early anime we got over here was either a few years old already when we got it (Dragon Ball) or cutting edge at the time (Evangelion/Cowboy Bebop).
And animation budgets were even worse then than they are now.
Agree on the budgets. The budgets are gak. Thats part of the problem. Them not having a budget is not an excuse for not having a budget. Saying anime is cheaply done means just that. It's cheaply done. It doesn't get a pass because it's cheaply done.
You're spitting some hottake level stuff that kind of hinges on not liking something and having a very shallow base of knowledge confined mostly to 2 decades. That's a flimsy basis for something as sweeping as characterizing 80 years. I could easily make these same sweeping generalizations about anything and they be equally nonsensical.
See my above examples. Look up the animation in classic cartoons. Loony Tunes and Disney. Popeye. Go all the way back to the 50s examples. Chart the actual growth and advancement over 80 years. Then go back to Astroboy. One of if not the first Anime. And chart the advancement over there. How much has changed? The still images sure are prettier. The colors better. Agreed. But the animation? Naw. 99.9% it's the same old gak.
Not particularly. For most of your criticisms actually.
A conversation between two people is trying to engage the audience as much as an internal monologue is. One might work better for some people, or both, or neither. There's nothing objectively wrong with an internal monologue from a writing perspective. It's certainly not the style of western media (except when making a gag) but yeah, I'm not seeing a meaningful difference. Probably depends on what's being talked about. Those internal monologues can get pretty word soupy when no one is trying. Other times they provide important context we'd otherwise lack.
::shrugs:: I can respect thats your take. I have a very different opinion between the 2. And I have seen enough anime (and I will not be listing the entire library of anime I have seen as though to prove my cred) to see it happen over and over and over again from studio to studio to studio that I find it a trope of the entire genre.
EDIT: There is probably a cultural basis for the trend in that breaking the fourth wall for any reason other than comedy is usually seen as 'bad' in Western narrative traditions, while it's generally not seen as a big deal in Japan (traditional theater there I know tries to directly involve the audience in the 'experience' of the performance), but I think that's a pretty subjective standard in itself. I can see it as a barrier to enjoying anime since these kinds of monologues can be seen as fourth wall breaking but I've never had issue with it so it might be a matter of acquired taste or different SOD expectations.
Shakespeare regularly broke the 4th wall in his plays for the same reason. I don't see the monologues as 4th wall breaking. I see them as unnatural conversations whose only purpose in the script is to tell the audience the thing they should be showing us.
These are good, but don't you think that's moving the goal post?
If we're looking at movies, then at the same time most of these were being made we're talking about Akira, Nausica, and Grave of the Fireflies. As much as I love classics from the 80s like NIMH and Black Cauldron, I like Grave of the Fireflies and Char's Counter-Attack more. Movies only need to run for 90-120 minutes. They usually come out better than contemporary television series. You're still comparing the best of western animation to the worst of anime. I could compare the likes of Dragon Ball Z Dead Zone to the Heathcliff movie and get a similar result in reverse. Of course, no one remembers the Heathcliff movie cause no one remembers Heathcliff XD
How much has changed?
A lot if you bother to look.
You're seriously going to straight face say you don't see a difference between these?
I mean, okay. It probably would be a waste to list what anime's you've seen. I wouldn't believe you.
No. It's not shifting goal posts. It's exactly the thing I said before. Just because I wasn't understood doesn't change the point I was making to a new shifted point.
This is what I want you to do when you look at that anime clip. Or even the one posted earlier. I want you to look at when the hair is flowing in the wind or they are walking. I want you to count how many frames are actually there. How many unique drawings. And then i want you to see how they just loop those same few frames over and over again. It's like... 4 frames max of hair movement.Maybe 5 for the cloak flowing in the wind. Then it's the same 5 frames in repeat. Watch that guy turn and start walking. Look at how it takes LITERALLY 3 frames. 3 still images to go from his 3/4 post to walking towards the screen. Maybe another 3 for the walking animation which is looped a second time before cutting to the side by side. It's like watching an 8bit FF video game where the character has 3 frames (left foot forward, standing, right foot forward) and they just instantly switch between them. "Good" anime is every bit as janky.
Your right. it's not the same as Astroboy. Astroboy was BETTER animated. At least you can say it's old as feth for why they are looping the animation but at least they ACTUALLY animated the motions entirely so that they were smooth.
Lance845 wrote: And then i want you to see how they just loop those same few frames over and over again.
...and?
Every work of animation without big budgets makes use of stock footage, poses, loops, and mirroring. Even shows with big budgets sometimes end up using stock and still use loops and mirroring. Movies do it. Maybe not CGI productions that have become more common for western animation, but that stuff isn't exactly pushing any quality benchmarks either in its own ways. That's not an anime thing and that's not even the thing that strikes me the most. This is such an absurd standard I'm baffled you'd only pick anime out as a target, how do you watch anything animated if those are the things that bug you?
Until we hit the gratuitous absurdity of Gundam Seed Destiny where entire episodes are made of stock, I fail to see a reason to knock anime specifically for bog standard practices that aren't remotely unique to it. And everyone knocks Gundam Seed Destiny for its over use of stock, it was already meme 13 episodes into the show.
And it's janky, poorly animated and bad. Technically. From a technical stand point of this is an animation and thus it is using pictures to convey motion.
the 3 frames creates jittery choppy motion. Again, look at that bugs bunny clip. Watch daffys bill spin, especially when it starts slowing down. Count the frames there.
Studio Ghibli. Great job. High frame rate. Good smooth animations. Akira, again. Great work. Ground breaking for not just the quality of the animation but the beauty of the imagery.
That gak you just posted as an example? Clearly better individual drawings than Astroboy. Animated like garbage.
And going back to the SW subject at hand, budget is not an excuse. So why is it just as choppy? Because it's the anime style to do so. Even if background elements are moving out of sync so they actually need more frames to animate it then they are using for the character they STILL make in low quality on purpose. Because thats anime!
This is a list of anime coming out in 2020. Not movies. All tv shows. All choppy, cheap, animation. Low frame rates. Mostly long shots of still images.
And here is a compilation of songs from Centaurworld that came out a couple weeks ago. While the character design of the human is clearly anime inspired. The animation is fething MILES beyond anything in that first video.
Lance845 wrote: And going back to the SW subject at hand, budget is not an excuse. So why is it just as choppy? Because it's the anime style to do so. Even if background elements are moving out of sync so they actually need more frames to animate it then they are using for the character they STILL make in low quality on purpose. Because thats anime!
I think it's fairly safe to say at this point you're definitely not in the target audience.
Though to be fair they might not have a target audience. The project is probably as much predicated on "anime = popular, thus star wars anime will be popular" logic as anything. I'm not convinced Disney actually has a plan for the franchise anymore beyond throwing things at the wall and seeing what sticks. Though this probably isn't much of a risk. If I learned anything from EA's Battlefront remakes, it's that even a flop with Star Wars slapped on it will still sell enough to turn a profit.
Actually, feth I was just talking about how EA needed to wait till 2018 (around there) to finally turn a profit on The Old Republic earlier today. Game sank like it was built by the cast of Giligan's Island but wait long enough and the thing still made EA money.
Grimskul wrote: Yeesh. I didn't think there was this much irrational hatred for anime on this sub-forum. I get it has a bad rep due to some of the less tasteful aspects associated with it and the fact that now its become more mainstream in the West its become "cool" to hate on it, but just like any other form of storytelling it has its ups and downs. This is coming from a guy who was raised in one of the golden ages of western cartoons in the 90's with Batman: TAS, Justice League, Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy, and other later stuff like Venture Bros. But then you also have to acknowledge terrible shows like Johnny Test and the countless horrible Family Guy clones like Crash Canyon and the Cleveland Show.
If you go by the worst denominator of anything then you're going to pretty much hate most of humanity's entertainment industry.
100% agreed with what LordofHats said though, people who say anime as a medium as a whole is garbage has never bothered to actually watch stuff like Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood.
A lot of the time those most negative on anime are folks pushing back because they've grown tired of having to deal with hard care anime fans who can't shut up about it and insist EVERYTHING should be anime.
Lance845 wrote: And going back to the SW subject at hand, budget is not an excuse. So why is it just as choppy? Because it's the anime style to do so. Even if background elements are moving out of sync so they actually need more frames to animate it then they are using for the character they STILL make in low quality on purpose. Because thats anime!
I think it's fairly safe to say at this point you're definitely not in the target audience.
Though to be fair they might not have a target audience. The project is probably as much predicated on "anime = popular, thus star wars anime will be popular" logic as anything. I'm not convinced Disney actually has a plan for the franchise anymore beyond throwing things at the wall and seeing what sticks. Though this probably isn't much of a risk. If I learned anything from EA's Battlefront remakes, it's that even a flop with Star Wars slapped on it will still sell enough to turn a profit.
Actually, feth I was just talking about how EA needed to wait till 2018 (around there) to finally turn a profit on The Old Republic earlier today. Game sank like it was built by the cast of Giligan's Island but wait long enough and the thing still made EA money.
Whatever happened to that Golden Age thing they were pitching? Disney's plan for SWs should have been going all in on getting the feth away from everything that came before.
Lance845 wrote: Whatever happened to that Golden Age thing they were pitching? Disney's plan for SWs should have been going all in on getting the feth away from everything that came before.
Do you mean the High Republic? No idea. I tried the first book and got bored out of my mind so I bailed. A quick internet search says they're still publishing but I've not bothered to try and find a point of entry or anything hidden in that that's worth the time *shrug*
I have too many books on my plate anyway. For once, might as well not add to the list.
Lance845 wrote: And going back to the SW subject at hand, budget is not an excuse. So why is it just as choppy? Because it's the anime style to do so. Even if background elements are moving out of sync so they actually need more frames to animate it then they are using for the character they STILL make in low quality on purpose. Because thats anime!
I think it's fairly safe to say at this point you're definitely not in the target audience.
Though to be fair they might not have a target audience. The project is probably as much predicated on "anime = popular, thus star wars anime will be popular" logic as anything. I'm not convinced Disney actually has a plan for the franchise anymore beyond throwing things at the wall and seeing what sticks. Though this probably isn't much of a risk. If I learned anything from EA's Battlefront remakes, it's that even a flop with Star Wars slapped on it will still sell enough to turn a profit.
Actually, feth I was just talking about how EA needed to wait till 2018 (around there) to finally turn a profit on The Old Republic earlier today. Game sank like it was built by the cast of Giligan's Island but wait long enough and the thing still made EA money.
Whatever happened to that Golden Age thing they were pitching? Disney's plan for SWs should have been going all in on getting the feth away from everything that came before.
yeah the high republic';s still around just..... yeah nothing about it grabs me as partiuclarly intreasting. I read the first book and neither of the evil threats really inspires me.
Lance845 wrote: The things I am talking about don't show up in 90% of anime. They show up in 99.9% of anime.
Right... I see there's no need to continue the discussion, here. Maybe this as a last point:
But seriously, go see movies with an actual budget, for anime with "better" animation. Anything by Ghibli, obviously, but also most Production IG, Trigger, Madhouse or MAPPA movies, Gundam the Origin, Unicorn or Hathaway, all of the new Yamato Stuff, anything at all by Makoto Shinkai or the sadly departed Satoshi Kon... you know, the equivalent stuff to the Disney or Don Bluth Productions stuff you were posting before.
Rumours that Season 3 of the Mandalorian will be the last but the overall story will be spun out into other shows like Ahsoka it’s just that Din Djarin won’t be the focus anymore.
DaveC wrote: Rumours that Season 3 of the Mandalorian will be the last but the overall story will be spun out into other shows like Ahsoka it’s just that Din Djarin won’t be the focus anymore.
I would be okay with that. I'd personally prefet they end their stories where they logically end rather than trying to string them out.
Not sure I want more Ahsoka, even if I like her very much as a character. It will very much depend on what they do.
DaveC wrote: Rumours that Season 3 of the Mandalorian will be the last but the overall story will be spun out into other shows like Ahsoka it’s just that Din Djarin won’t be the focus anymore.
Makes sense to some extent. Grogu has been delivered to Luke and now its just the conflict surrounding the darksaber and Mandalore left. I could see maybe two seasons depending on if they try and keep filler, but I feel that will be harder to do now that Din no longer has his delivery quest. I could also see this as part of the struggle between Filoni/Favreau vs Kathleen Kennedy when it comes to controlling the SW output of shows.
DaveC wrote: Rumours that Season 3 of the Mandalorian will be the last but the overall story will be spun out into other shows like Ahsoka it’s just that Din Djarin won’t be the focus anymore.
I would be okay with that. I'd personally prefet they end their stories where they logically end rather than trying to string them out.
Not sure I want more Ahsoka, even if I like her very much as a character. It will very much depend on what they do.
Ashoka is basicly going to be the live action SW Rebels sequal, tying up the loose ends from that series
1.) Meh on the artistic style they used, but I really want to know more about that dude’s story.
2.) Just fun. I enjoyed this one.
3.) 110% pure unadulterated over the top Trigger.
4.) Nice one to mellow out after the previous. The yellow saber was my favorite one.
5.) Interesting take on saber lore. The fights were really good, tied for my favorites.
6.) Eh. Cute, but didn’t really work for me.
7.) My other favorite one for the fights. The finishing move was the coolest.
8.) This episode is the embodiment of the dad not wanting to adopt the dog meme. It didn’t manage to make me particularly care enough about the characters though.
9.) This one was kind of boring, but the ending was intriguing.
All in all these did not feel like a series of one shots but rather like a bunch of pilot episodes, all leaving stuff distinctly open if not blatant cliffhangers. Have they said if we should expect more? It feels like something where they see which ones are the most popular and give them a series.
TLDR: For people looking for a run down, The Ninth Jedi, The Duel, and the Elder are probably the best in the set. I think people might like them even if they don't like anime much. The Elder and the Ninth Jedi especially have a very straightforward and direct pitch that feels authentically Star Wars. Lop and Ocho, Village Bride, and The Twins lean more heavily onto the anime-ness, but are still quite good for what they are. I suspect Tatooine Rhapsody will be a love it/hate it short based entirely on how much one likes anime. T0-B1 and Akakiri are... Well they have interesting art and that's all I can muster to give them. The Duel is hard for me to qualify. It's very good, but has my least liked animation style. It leans hard into classical cinema motifs and in a very cool way, but I'm not sure skeptics will appreciate it. Worst case, nothing here is longer than 15 minutes.
The Duel
Spoiler:
Great story, good action. This animation style is very much not to my liking though. The classic samurai cinema elements were great and I liked that, but the clunky CGI is obvious and I just can't get into it. It was cool though seeing a very faithful adaptation of classic Japanese movie motifs recast directly into Star Wars. Pretty damn slick twist to it to and a very rapid achievement of mystique in short order. Like a classic Samurai or Western hero, the exact motives of the Vagabond are personal but obscure. Part of me wishes this story was a full film instead of a fifteen minute episode, which I suspect was the whole point XD
Tatooine Rhapsody
Spoiler:
This one was fun. This kind of authentic enthusiasm is great. The story wasn't nearly as compelling as most of the others but the energy was great and especially refreshing in Star Wars. It was nice to see something that doesn't end in some cliche good vs evil gun fight with laser swords.
The Twins
Spoiler:
I recognized Studio Trigger's style in the preview instantly and this was probably one of the ones I most looked forward too. I expected it to be bizarre, over the top, and crazy awesome. Never let it be said Studio Trigger can't deliver on the thing we love about them. The voice acting was unfortunately very not up to snuff imo and the delivery of the character's line just doesn't hold up to the crazy awesome. It's just a bit too generic. I was highly amused at how they used the hyperspace gimmick from TLJ in this one. When things are this stupidly over the top, it actually works. I feel like they even predicted people bitching about the saber duel in space because wtf is the droid wearing a helmet when the mammals lost theirs ages ago? The trolls XD
Village Bride
Spoiler:
I think my favorites in this set are the ones that tell stories I haven't seen in Star Wars before and this is one of them. Very unconventional Star Wars fair. That's a good thing here. The tattoos and 'one with nature' parts of the setting feel like a very unsubtle reference to Quinlan Vas. The planet is never named but I feel like it's supposed to be Kiffu. Also has an Ebon Hawk reference in it.
The Ninth Jedi
Spoiler:
Obvious pitch for a Samurai Seven remake but with Jedi. There's a literal pun in there. It's also cool to see a story explicitly stated to be far far in the future, long after the Jedi have long gone.
This might be my favorite one of the shorts. The animation and art in other shorts I think were less generic, but this one on the whole was the most well put together. Unsurprised it was I.G. behind it. That's basically their deal. A distinct setting. Immediately intriguing characters, good plot. Probably the short the suffers most from being a short and having a time crunch.
The take on Sabers was indeed very unique and interesting. This one more than any others seemed to be begging 'Please let us make a Star Wars series!'
T0-B1
Spoiler:
Every short collection has that one that not only can't stand up to the rest, but that just plain sucks in comparison and this is it. The only notable aspect of this episode is that it's an Astro-Boy homage and that's it. That's the short. Shockingly, the idea runs out of gas within the first few seconds and becomes very humdrum.
The Elder
Spoiler:
This one was good. While I like the more unconventional stories in this collection like a rock bad and Jedi Mononoke, seeing this very conventional kind of story in all its glory is just fantastic. There's nothing fancy here. It's just a straightforward story with some quick action and a simple but pleasant dynamic between the two heroes.
Lop & Ocho
Spoiler:
Along with the Ninth Jedi, this one seems to most be screaming 'please let us make a whole series.' I'd watch it though it's not nearly as good as many of the other snips. It does have some of the best animation in the set though. The plot is basically Star Wars Princess Mononoke (I know I made that comparison already XD) and it would probably make a great movie. One the one hand a Star Wars Bunny Girl feels like a pitch to the weebiest of weebs, but it's also cool to see a non-human main character for once. Amazing how we don't get anywhere near enough of those.
This plot is maybe the best and weakest part of the short. It's good imo, but it's also maybe the most embedded in anime narrative conventions.
Akakiri
Spoiler:
Both the entries by SARU are easily the weakest. Disappointing from the studio that made Ride Your Wave. Then again, that's the only thing they've made I'd call good so maybe it shouldn't be surprising. Both their shorts feel like something they really wanted to make, but they're weirdos who want weird things and those things seem made for an audience of them and themselves. They made some bold artistic choices I'll give them credit for, but everything was so boring that the art just couldn't carry it.
Overall
A lot of these shorts have an air of grey Sith about them, which I found refreshing after years of Lucas' black and white except not version of the force dominating the franchise. Seeing it so many times at once did get a bit repetitive though.
All in all these did not feel like a series of one shots but rather like a bunch of pilot episodes, all leaving stuff distinctly open if not blatant cliffhangers. Have they said if we should expect more? It feels like something where they see which ones are the most popular and give them a series.
I wouldn't be surprised if any ended up being followed up on if popular demand was there. Star Wars is all about printing money and honestly several of these could be expanded into movies, mini-series, or shows I'd be willing to watch. At the same time, I feel like it's worth pointing out open-ended conclusions is convention in Anime far more than western animation.
That said, The Ninth Jedi and I.G. are basically begging Disney to let them make a full production, and Lop and Ocho is an obvious pitch from Geno for a feature film. Like seriously. The little anime guy standing just off screen holding the sign 'please let us make more' is so obvious it would hurt if I didn't agree. The Ninth Jedi could extremely easily be the pilot for a full series.
So, this is basically exactly what I was hoping they'd do with Kylo and seeing how good it could have been is kind of infuriating. My favorite of the three by far. I don't necessarly need more of this, but definitely more Star Wars LIKE this.
I've been so so on that art style in the past. I think it worked better in the black and white with splashes of color here than it did in Batman Ninja.
Tatooine Rhapsody
Spoiler:
I was kind of short on time and wanted to get to Trigger, so I didn't really go into this one in the right mindset initially. I think by the end it (and Chibi Fett) won me over.
Rather enjoyed it despite not really wanting to enjoy it.
The Twins
Spoiler:
Oh Trigger, how I love your nonsense. One thing that really stood out for me was how much the first half really nailed the sound design, pacing and overall feel of Star Wars. For a bit, I was actually a little worried they were playing it safe and if there's a big drawback here its definitely the padding between the big moments where the characters way way overexplain themselves. I'd have loved for them to just go hyperdrive without explaining it. Going all Grievous with the 6 sabers vs the Buster saber was great, and that end was so so so very stupid dumb. The droid having an air bubble for space was just.... yup.
I'm 4 episodes in, and think that not binge watching all of this at once may be the way to go.
But The Duel has kind of spoiled the rest for me. The whole series opened up STRONG as far as I'm concerned. It's very, very obvious that the logic is "Star Wars was based off black and white Akira Kurosawa films. Let's just make a black and white Akira Kurosawa Star Wars episode"
Village in the sticks, bandits over the hill, villagers hiring mercenaries, wandering Ronin, the whole entire thing. Utterly marvellous.
AduroT wrote: You say that, but the fifth one seems to be regarded as the most popular from what I’ve seen.
The Ninth Jedi thus far seems to be receiving near universal praise along with what I suspect is the desired demand for more.
And having had a day, feth it. I will shill this gak.
The Ninth Jedi is the most authentic, enthusiastic, and original piece of Star Wars media since Knights of the Old Republic. By setting itself hundreds of years after RoS, it does exactly what many disillusioned fans would have preferred from the sequel trilogy; an entirely new story in an entirely new Star Wars galaxy. The Ninth Jedi goes even further than that though. It recaptures the air of wonder and mystery that came with entering a galaxy far far away for the very first time. It's an entirely new world. Anything can fething happen, but it's still authentically Star Wars where it counts.
You can feel how badly I.G. wants this for every minute of the show. They want to make more and they're begging Disney and the fans to give them the chance. I really want them to have it. Those 20 minutes of the Ninth Jedi, were the most I've loved Star Wars since before TLJ murdered my enthusiasm. Since then, Star Wars isn't something I particularly enjoy. It's just another thing to do. Another piece of media to consume. Stuff like Bad Batch and the final season of Clone Wars were okay, maybe even good, but not good enough to break the malaise I've felt. Even the Mandolorian, which is fantastic, still feels like it's trapped in trying to be something I want rather than actually being something I want. A piece of media so filtered through a corporate lens that it feels like it has less of a soul.
I want more Ninth Jedi and I'm not going to apologize for it. That short makes most of everything else this franchise put out in the past decade look like mediocre 'it kills the time' slop it is. If you watch the extras, the director for the short outright says he wants to make more and you can see the hunger is in his eyes. I really hope fans rally around the Ninth Jedi because I'm ready to see what I.G. will do. They've already shown more heart and love for Star Wars than basically everything Disney's in-house teams have put out since getting the franchise.
AduroT wrote: You say that, but the fifth one seems to be regarded as the most popular from what I’ve seen.
The Ninth Jedi thus far seems to be receiving near universal praise along with what I suspect is the desired demand for more.
And having had a day, feth it. I will shill this gak.
The Ninth Jedi is the most authentic, enthusiastic, and original piece of Star Wars media since Knights of the Old Republic. By setting itself hundreds of years after RoS, it does exactly what many disillusioned fans would have preferred from the sequel trilogy; an entirely new story in an entirely new Star Wars galaxy. The Ninth Jedi goes even further than that though. It recaptures the air of wonder and mystery that came with entering a galaxy far far away for the very first time. It's an entirely new world. Anything can fething happen, but it's still authentically Star Wars where it counts.
You can feel how badly I.G. wants this for every minute of the show. They want to make more and they're begging Disney and the fans to give them the chance. I really want them to have it. Those 20 minutes of the Ninth Jedi, were the most I've loved Star Wars since before TLJ murdered my enthusiasm. Since then, Star Wars isn't something I particularly enjoy. It's just another thing to do. Another piece of media to consume. Stuff like Bad Batch and the final season of Clone Wars were okay, maybe even good, but not good enough to break the malaise I've felt. Even the Mandolorian, which is fantastic, still feels like it's trapped in trying to be something I want rather than actually being something I want. A piece of media so filtered through a corporate lens that it feels like it has less of a soul.
I want more Ninth Jedi and I'm not going to apologize for it. That short makes most of everything else this franchise put out in the past decade look like mediocre 'it kills the time' slop it is. If you watch the extras, the director for the short outright says he wants to make more and you can see the hunger is in his eyes. I really hope fans rally around the Ninth Jedi because I'm ready to see what I.G. will do. They've already shown more heart and love for Star Wars than basically everything Disney's in-house teams have put out since getting the franchise.
This is my hill and I will die on it.
This is excellent feedback and criticism.
I agree that it was a solid entry, and one can only hope that The Powers That Be will be watching the feedback for what did and didn’t widely land with the audience. To have a significant time jump would be nice, with the actions of the Republic, Rebellion and Resistance being mythological would be cool.
Almost as soon as Visions was announced we got an announcement that The Duel would get a tie in novel and I don't think it's a coincidence that The Duel was the first short in the anthology. There was clearly a great deal of confidence in it even before it was finished. It's not hard to see why. Star Wars reimagined as something Akira Kurosawa would have made is pretty slick and refreshing in many of the same ways the Ninth Jedi is. The Duel though doesn't leave me wanting more. I might check out the novel for its novelty and because the vagabond or ronin or whatever he ends up being called is an interesting character. I'm curious what his motivations are after the short.
Of the other shorts, Ninth Jedi and Lop and Ocho are the two where you can hear the studios that made them begging for the chance to do more. I'm not so hot on Lop and Ocho. It's good but set in a time and place I'm already meh on, and feels very derivative at the same time. I've seen that story before, several times. The only big difference is that its set in the Star Wars universe and has a bunny girl in it. It's good but do I hunger for more? Not really. I really really want more Ninth Jedi. The short itself is basically a pilot episode laying out the series and its principal characters and conflicts and I want to see it.
Overall a good story, intriguing characters. Doesn't really NEED more, but I like what it brought to the table.
The Ninth Jedi
Spoiler:
So, this one isn't my favorite, but I totally get the hype. It's far and away the most intriguing and unique of the bunch and absolutely feels like a pilot episode. I was actually less excited at the end than moments like the Endor chase, but there were a lot of really cool bits like the real time saber colors. The lack of a real villain is probably the weak spot, but it aims high and mostly succeeds.
T0-B1
Spoiler:
Maybe my least favorite? Probably my least favorite. Just literally swapping in Astro Boy for Luke and not even really having something interesting to say about artificial life in the process. It's fine, not bad, I like the stylized Vader until he gets a little dumb, but pretty disposable.
The Elder
Spoiler:
This is Trigger again? Huh, not as obvious. Really dug the Ninja Scroll style and easily had some of the best choreography of the set and something interesting to say as well. The main characters are pretty standard stuff, but a memorable villain makes for one of my favorites.
Lop & Ocho
Spoiler:
This is both better than it seems and kind of rushed. It's very obvious where its going and doesn't quite have time to make it matter. Ends up feeling generic. Alright though.
Akakiri
Spoiler:
I was super checked out for most of this one. Didn't click with me at all. The end was really interesting though, mostly in the sense that you just wish Ep3 could have pulled off something like this. I actually watched this one twice and while looking for the setup is interesting, its still a weird episode to end the series on, but then again, maybe that's the point.
After blowing through all of them in an afternoon I was ready to say they had front-loaded the piece with the 'bad' ones and shuffled The Duel to the front to keep people interested - but looking back on it now I can't really say any of them are 'bad' at all. Each studio was clearly giving their A game and the resulting animation is consistently movie quality from front to back.
I find it funny that after all the talk about whether or not this would be canon - and all the gravitas people invest in that status - the only one that really feels willing to step out of that box is The Twins, and I fully expect some future Star Wars novel to mention a Star Weaver concert or the ancient Sith lord Masago, or Vaan and the wanderer F at some point in the future.
Indeed. After all, Sith is a religion, not a specific lifestyle.
For instance, in the real world, we have major religions with many different faiths within them.
Without comparing any to Sith ideals? In Christianity, you have Roman Catholics, Protestants, Anglican, Evangelical, Mormon and Jehovah’s Witnesses to name a few which spring immediately to mind. Some believe the Bible is allegorical. Some believe the Bible is literal. Some interpret different passages in different ways.
So to think all Sith are moustache twirling evil gits? That’s not necessarily correct. The Duel demonstrates that.
I don’t think he ever actually called himself Sith, did he? Iirc he just responds to them assuming he’s a Jedi by showing off the red saber, and let’s them infer for themselves.
Yeah, its mostly implication. The only certainty seems to be that he's hunting Sith, but there's a lot of mystique in the why. Is he a Jedi seeking vengence or actually trying to do good? Is he a Sith devoted to the rule of 2? I kind of agree that any answers are probably less than the questions, but they are very interesting questions.
He also gives one the red crystals he collected to boy. I honestly feel like the protag is more of a hunter. He seemed to imply that he wished he could be a jedi, but understood it would never happen and instead devoted himself to defeating any Sith he encountered, and he clearly had encountered many Sith in his travels.
My favorite part of the Trigger episode was the main characters not needing space suits in space, but the droid having a little space helmet.
LunarSol wrote: LordofHats Does Not Dream of Bunny-Girl Jedi?
I understand that reference, though I haven't watched that series XD
But yeah. It's not bad. I've just seen that plot before dozens of times and I kind of shrug at the idea of seeing it again. In of itself it doesn't grab my attention much.
A lot of them share a similar time, place and aesthetic feel. The Duel, The Village Bride, The Elder, Lop & Ochi, and Akakiri could all be expanded along similar lines, or even exist together to a degree.
Ninth is far and away the one that most wants to be its own thing though and while I think it gets a little sloppy with its crew dynamics at the end to cram it all in, a couple of adventures with the new team could solve that rather quickly.
So.... I just learned there's Japanese audio for these.... Now, I'm not a sub purist. I actually greatly prefer a good or even sometimes average dub a lot of the time, but at the same time, don't really have a problem with subtitles if there's a better performance. Upon learning this, I immediately sought out the two I think are dramatically improved with Japanese audio:
Tatooine Rhapsody
Still not the most exciting of the bunch but the song at the end is totally worth revisting. There is legitimate passion behind the lyrics and it makes the whole thing way more fun and engaging.
The Twins
So.... the change in voice acting may have bumped this one to the top of my list. A lot of the Trigger stuff works better in Japanese just because the frantic action and camerawork is synched so specifically with the cadence of the dialogue, but the difference here couldn't be greater. Where the English is pretty bored and almost confused, the Japanese brims with that intense bravado Trigger is known for. This one is just sooooo good with a voice track as loud and energetic as the action on screen; definitely going to be watching it again and again.
Curious if any of the others improve quite as much as these two. I suspect they're better, but these two are a LOT better.
Wee bit later than I expected if I’m honest, but still tantalisingly close!
They've tweeked the armour design so it's not as matt and is a bit more dinged up which I approve of, the Mandalorian season 2 armour was just too flat and clean looking. Still hoping they show how Cad Bane put the dent in Boba's helmet at some point.
Surprisingly I'm enjoying the Visions a lot. Only up to ep 4 so far, but Tattoine Rhapsody was the weakes, while Trigger...I mean, it's Trigger, you know what you're getting into with them, and they delivered it in spades. The 4th episode was also quite good.
Honestly, it's the most I've enjoyed Star Wars in...probably a decade? It puts episodes 1-3 and 7-9 of the movie series (no longer trilogy, duh) to shame in sheer entertainment value and worldbuilding.
I’m hoping that trailer is just from the first episode. I don’t like trailers showing too much. To be fair, the House of Mouse have been pretty good with that for SW and the MCU. They’ve even thrown in scenes different from the final product.
Ray Park can't catch a break with Maul he doesn't even do the voice for the animated version they might motion capture him again like they did for the Clone Wars final season.
I don't know. Rex seems kind of wide. Of course Rebels uses somewhat stylized animation, so the comparison isn't perfect.
Considering Rex was retired for a time, sat around in a walker all day and seemed to eat well while Boba led the hobo life on Tatooine between Episode 6 and Mandalorian, I don't think their body shapes are even supposed to match.
Voss wrote: So... how much screen time (over the course of the season) is going to be devoted to him taking the helmet off or putting it on?
I'm thinking a good 10-15 minutes.
I'd say one way takes an average three seconds in the trailer, so six seconds on and off. He'll do that when he's got some important conversations or needs to react to something dramatic happening in the scene, but the helmet is also important in other conversations, so he won't go overboard on it. I'd say four, maybe five times per episode. Make it five because it makes the math easier, that's thirty seconds per episode for a total of four and a half minutes. Maybe up that to five to be on the safe side, if some episodes are significantly longer than others as in the Mandalorian.
The more important question is, if we're seeing the criminal underworld, what are the odds of Hondo showing up? Or maybe Azmorigan? Would be cool so see a live action Jablogian.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: He didn’t even do the voice in Phantom Menace. That was Peter Serafinowicz.
One has to assume at this point there's a reason no one lets Ray Park speak in his movies and just uses him as a top tier stunt man. It's not like Star Wars is the only instance of this. Line delivery or something, I'd wager.
So apparently Crimson Dawn was originally planned as a live action show but Disney/Lucasfilm have dropped Ray Park after the Instagram incident and swapped to animated instead with Sam Witwer to reprise the voice work. I guess that’s mocap out as well.
Geifer wrote: I don't know. Rex seems kind of wide. Of course Rebels uses somewhat stylized animation, so the comparison isn't perfect.
Considering Rex was retired for a time, sat around in a walker all day and seemed to eat well while Boba led the hobo life on Tatooine between Episode 6 and Mandalorian, I don't think their body shapes are even supposed to match.
Voss wrote: So... how much screen time (over the course of the season) is going to be devoted to him taking the helmet off or putting it on?
I'm thinking a good 10-15 minutes.
I'd say one way takes an average three seconds in the trailer, so six seconds on and off. He'll do that when he's got some important conversations or needs to react to something dramatic happening in the scene, but the helmet is also important in other conversations, so he won't go overboard on it. I'd say four, maybe five times per episode. Make it five because it makes the math easier, that's thirty seconds per episode for a total of four and a half minutes. Maybe up that to five to be on the safe side, if some episodes are significantly longer than others as in the Mandalorian.
The more important question is, if we're seeing the criminal underworld, what are the odds of Hondo showing up? Or maybe Azmorigan? Would be cool so see a live action Jablogian.
Eh. Hondo is the kind of character that's not terrible in certain kinds of animation, when they're kicking up the 'funny' vibe.
In live action, he'd be pretty intolerable. Especially since this show seems to want to take itself seriously, despite being about Boba bumbling his way into controlling Hutt territory (which, without plot armor, seems like a bad time). He'd be like the weird 'hard cuts' that Lucas did mid-film to random fart or burp jokes.
The New Canon Novel “Bloodlines” hints that Leia’s strangling of Jabba, and his part of the cartel crumbling greatly upset the balance of power within the underworlds. Hutts were shown to be fallible, and may have paid the price.
It’s a pretty enjoyable novel overall. If you can get it a free digital copy on Kindle or whatever, defo give it a read.
Also who's to say that Boba is expected to hold on to his claim. As protagonist of the show I expect him to succeed short term, not the least because they went against the memes in Mandalorian and tried to make him look good. But that doesn't mean that his reign has to last. Maul's power grab didn't. But it sure was interesting to see and added something to the story. Boba's story could be set up as interesting filler for a period of time that is not canonically explored with no guarantee that a lasting syndicate comes out of it that can hold its own against the established, big ones.
On Hondo, as much as I agree that Boba is going to get a serious spin, I don't know if they can (or should) resist adding some humorous scenes. I can well imagine Hondo appearing in a heist or smuggling episode as a helper or middle man and give the serious characters something to grind against. It doesn't have to get to Jar Jar levels of slapstick, especially since Hondo also had his serious moments in Clone Wars.
It was a joke, but if we're serious about it for a moment, I don't think hideously outclassed and outgunned is a worry of mine. Goons will be goons and basic troopers in Star Wars exist to make the heroes look good. As a convention that's just what you expect to see. I don't think underworld enforcers have even had an iconic moment that compares to getting beat up by teddy bears with pointy sticks, so getting the same abuse as Stormtroopers isn't really an expectation of mine, but even though Endor is possibly the most memorable low point for troopers, it's not really what I'm concerned about. It's ancient history by now.
Now, disclaimer time. I like the shows we got in recent years, thought they were cool and fun and got a lot of enjoyment out of them. However, there are a few instances where even though I acknowledge that Star Wars runs on rule of cool, the creators took things too far from established depictions. With my previous Stormtrooper comment I was largely thinking of the Mandalorian episode where Boba shows up for real while Grogu makes his long distance call. While I did not experience the fight scenes with the Stormtroopers to have as much of a negative impact on second viewing, owed to knowing what was going to happen and having adjusted my expectations, it stands out that the Stormtroopers go out of their way to let themselves get beat up by an old man with a whacking stick.
This is not the only instance where troopers mysteriously forget how to shoot blasters. When the Bad Batch is introduced in Clone Wars, and later in the first episode of their own show, apparently it's a sound tactic to walk up to large droid formations and poke them with a knife. It works, too. Spectacularly so because apparently once you're in their face, a whole platoon of B1s just sits around and patiently waits for you to stab them. Blasters? What blasters? Interestingly the first outing of Clone Wars had a scene during the battle of Christophsis where a clone engaged in melee with a droid, punched it in the face, screamed in pain and held his hand, and then got shot by the same droid.
It's fine for laser sword wielding maniacs with mystical powers to get away with stabbing things to death, but that aside Star Wars has been fairly good at establishing blasters as superior weapons. It's not always consistent but is usually used to effect to establish danger to the heroes by not allowing them to walk merrily into blaster fire or engage in melee because they know they're perfectly safe from getting shot there. The aforementioned examples stand out pretty starkly and exemplify my idea of hilariously incompetent troopers. It's fine if troopers can't match the heroes. It's expected. They don't have to be good at what they're doing or make good decisions all the time, but at least they have to be shown to try. Otherwise it's just... well, I laughed when I watched the scenes, but more out of sense of desperation and the hope they were slip ups and not indicative of what to expect from future episodes.
So yeah, doesn't have to be Stormtroopers even though they have a history that makes them prime candidates if the creators decide there is a need for a dodgy fight scene. Underworld enforcers fit the bill just fine for Book of Boba. I just hope we won't see any more of those comically bad scenes, is all I'm saying.
Stormtroopers incompetence reached new lows in Mando, totally turned me off the show.
I know they got beaten up by Ewoks (imo, amongst the worst part of the OT), apparently the initial script was meant to be Wookies? That would have made it all so much better. But people seem to forget how easily they punched through the Tantive IV soldier.
I know they got beaten up by Ewoks (imo, amongst the worst part of the OT), apparently the initial script was meant to be Wookies?
The story at the time was that they ran into budget issues (those fur costumes are expensive) and making them little teddy bears instead of Wookies saved a lot of money and as a nice bonus was infinitely more marketable.
Lucas's revised history is that Wookies had been shown to tech-savvy (based on the single Wookie seen in the first two movies being able to use tools) so they couldn't be the required low-tech opponent for the Imperial forces, and that it was difficult in the '80s to find enough willing bodies that were the right size.
Also it seems that rumours that the 12 episodes of Andor they've filmed would be split into 2, 6 episode seasons won't now happen and it will be a 12 episode season 1.
LunarSol wrote: Seems likely. They had planned that Cara Dune show after all. They're going to want to fill that plan with something and Bo is a solid pick.
They were planning that series, but nothing was written for it before they cancelled it. Storyline seeds were moved over to the Ahsoka series and Mando series, instead. The "leak" is wishlisting from a site that frequently doesn't fact check anything.
I wondered what had happened to Andor. Somehow I got the impression when they first announced it that it was pretty far along, but we just got a lot of other stuff since.
Geifer wrote: I wondered what had happened to Andor. Somehow I got the impression when they first announced it that it was pretty far along, but we just got a lot of other stuff since.
Season 1 is finished filming for probably a late summer or autumn release. Stellan Skarsgård recently said he’s due to start filming season 2 in the autumn after filming Dune. 3 seasons have been mentioned.
Pond a Jedi ? I ignore the Wars Youtoobers click monkeys for a while ( cos they are all full of gak) and the KG as MJ delusions start swirling, any legit sources ?
A few reports he's been cast but no confirmation on who he has been cast as other than it's an Admiral (but not Thrawn) - Gar Saxon died in 2BBY - 11 years before the Mandalorian timeline - could be flashbacks maybe as these are likely with Hayden reprising Anakin.
Good: they're getting off Tattooine for at least some of it.
Bad: The Empire is actively sending Force-sensitive hunters to Tattooine, and they're within spitting distance of Lars and family.
Glad we're highlighting what a stupid hiding place that was.
Voss wrote: Glad we're highlighting what a stupid hiding place that was.
Wasn't the Legends explanation that Tattooine had a Force rift thing like Dagobah that made it hard to locate Force users?
Don't know, don't care.
Its Vader's in-laws, on his home planet, and the same house he visited, his brat has his surname, and has friends he gets into trouble with in the local area (or at least his uncle has a low opinion of their activities, and doesn't confine him to the moisture farm).
This was all sorta fine when its a vague backstory in episode IV, but the prequels made it part of Star Wars street, and now we have someone who can probably read minds standing in the same camera shot as the stupid uncle (as in, she's actively hunting jedi, has hung some fool up and turns to face him directly, and he makes a show of looking shifty). And I'm not entirely convinced she isn't directly threatening young Luke with lightsaber in hand in the cafe at 1:19.
Its looking like the worst possible route they could have chosen for this show, which already felt unnecessary. Someone would have followed up on this crap, even (or especially) if she dies or disappears. If it had been 'Obi helps Ahsoka/Rex/random Clone Wars side character out on Planet <Wherever> and Obi comes to terms with Anakin's fall while Inquisitors hunt him'... then, fine. But the Empire running amok in Luke's childhood makes no damn sense.
Voss wrote: If it had been 'Obi helps Ahsoka/Rex/random Clone Wars side character out on Planet <Wherever> and Obi comes to terms with Anakin's fall while Inquisitors hunt him'... then, fine. But the Empire running amok in Luke's childhood makes no damn sense.
This is actually closer to the story from the leaks going around. The planet it's mainly set on is Daiyu and Obi-Wan goes there both to lure the Inquisitors away and help an original trilogy character.
Not sure I like the redesign of the Grand Inquisitor he's not nearly as gaunt looking as the he was in Rebels the Fifth Brother is close enough and the Third Sister is new for Kenobi.
Voss wrote: Glad we're highlighting what a stupid hiding place that was.
Wasn't the Legends explanation that Tattooine had a Force rift thing like Dagobah that made it hard to locate Force users?
I never encountered that. From what I recall, the Legends explanation was simply that Vader had absolutely no interest in ever returning to Tatooine. The Prequel explanation was that Obi-Wan thought Anakin was dead, and Vader thought his kid had died with Padme, so had no reason to go looking.
DaveC wrote: Not sure I like the redesign of the Grand Inquisitor he's not nearly as gaunt looking as the he was in Rebels the Fifth Brother is close enough and the Third Sister is new for Kenobi.
Yeah, I like the Grand Inquisitor's design in Rebels. Not a fan of seeing a live action adaptation fail to follow the established design again. You'd think they have the budget and skill to do better. There aren't even any moving parts that may be harder to do physically than in animation.
My understanding was always that Vader never knew Luke was alive and was never searching for him. Hiding him with his family works because no one is looking for him to begin with. It doesn't even matter what his name is because his name has no meaning to anyone save maybe.... 7? 8? people in the entire galaxy of which none of them know the names of any kids working on farms.
The Inquisition has been shown doing two things since their introduction: hunting Jedi that survived Order 66 and kidnapping Force sensitive children. If she's threatening Luke in any capacity its for the latter reason. She has absolutely no idea who he is.
It’s also implied in the comics that even though Obi-Wan caused problems for Jabba he hid the fact the Obi-Wan was on Tatooine so as not to draw Imperial attention to his own business. The Inquisitors aren’t looking for Obi-Wan (or Luke) but become aware of him after they arrive - they have another reason for being there.
Oh and vader had active reason to avoid tatooine. Anakin. Vader did not want Anakin to wake up. Ergo he would avoid place that might bring Anakin back.
Which is why the larson&co would be among persons vader least wants to meet
tneva82 wrote: Oh and vader had active reason to avoid tatooine. Anakin. Vader did not want Anakin to wake up. Ergo he would avoid place that might bring Anakin back.
What nonsense is this? Vader was Anakin. It was a name change, not a personality implant.
tneva82 wrote: Oh and vader had active reason to avoid tatooine. Anakin. Vader did not want Anakin to wake up. Ergo he would avoid place that might bring Anakin back.
What nonsense is this? Vader was Anakin. It was a name change, not a personality implant.
Disassociation.
What Anakin did was Heat of the Moment. 100% that.
Palpatine continued to exploit that, including ensuring Vader’s suit was a bit crap (canon). Keep Vader focussed on his anger and guilt. Prevent introspection. Do whatever you can to stop Vader reconsidering and perhaps becoming Anakin again.
Voss wrote: What nonsense is this? Vader was Anakin. It was a name change, not a personality implant.
Vader and Anakin are two different personalities in the same person. Vader is Anakin's rage, fear, and hatred personified, with Vader even outright saying to Ahsoka that he destroyed Anakin because he was weak. Whatever Anakin's flaws, he was still inherently a good person and tried to do what was right. Vader does not, at least until Luke comes along. It's kind of the point of ESB and RotJ that Luke is the key to bringing back Anakin and returning him to the side of the Light. Vader doesn't consider himself to be Skywalker.
What Anakin did was Heat of the Moment. 100% that.
No, not at all. You don't take a taxi half-way across a city-planet and butcher children and call it 'heat of the moment.' That was cold and calculated with lots of time for introspection. And it wasn't even the first time he'd butchered children (with no suit, even)
Palpatine continued to exploit that, including ensuring Vader’s suit was a bit crap (canon).
Eh. Canon, where? Not the films.
Keep Vader focussed on his anger and guilt. Prevent introspection. Do whatever you can to stop Vader reconsidering and perhaps becoming Anakin again.
He never stopped being Anakin. That was very clearly who Anakin was, an angry butcher of innocents. He had to build up to the latter, but his whole story is anger and impatience.
And if he wanted to stop introspection, Vader wouldn't have had his own series of environmental meditation chambers on his ship(s) and planetary base. Even outside that, Vader spends _a lot_ of film time staring out of windows in contemplation.
Lord Damocles wrote: You'd think that all those force ghosts would have zapped the inquisitors with lightning or something.
Had better things to be doing I guess...
While I hate this..... Qui Gon invented Force Ghosts and only taught it to Obi-wan and Yoda at the end of Episode 3.... and apparently Anakin I guess? I'm sure there's a comic explaining that last bit.
Lord Damocles wrote: ...and a whole bunch of others apparently, going by Rise of Skywalker...
Yet another reason why the sequel trilogy should be de-canonized given how much tip-toeing the current Disney TV series have had to do in leading up to it.
tneva82 wrote: Oh and vader had active reason to avoid tatooine. Anakin. Vader did not want Anakin to wake up. Ergo he would avoid place that might bring Anakin back.
What nonsense is this? Vader was Anakin. It was a name change, not a personality implant.
Youdo know there's multiple personality syndrome even in real life? Sw books have made it clear in vader's mind anakin was different personality, vader didn't consider them 1 and same.
Do some reading on subject before sprouting non-sense next time eh?
Btw fun fact. Title return of jedi has multiple meanings that can be deduced. One is return of Anakin the Jedi.
Are you even aware what fuels Vader is hatred? Specifically hatred of himself. He hates himself more than anybody else in galaxy. And it's that hatred that sustains himself and gives him power. This hatred was strong enough that had Vader been Vader at the end of RoTJ he could have survived with his hatred and anger alone. Vader has survived his suit been wrecked before. Despite suit being what keeps him alive normally in need with sheer hatred Vader CAN sustain himself(and there's even more impressive feat by dark side user available. Sith who should be by all right long dead keeping himself going with sheer hatred). But as he had abandoned Emperor and the dark side the personality of Anakin resurfaced and with that he lost the dark side and could not sustain himself(and all the hatred and anger had vanished replaced with other feelings).
tneva82 wrote: Oh and vader had active reason to avoid tatooine. Anakin. Vader did not want Anakin to wake up. Ergo he would avoid place that might bring Anakin back.
What nonsense is this? Vader was Anakin. It was a name change, not a personality implant.
Youdo know there's multiple personality syndrome even in real life?
I do know. So another poor (to be... generous) treatment of mental health issues gets even less tolerance from me. IF that was even what they were even going for, which isn't evident or even vaguely hinted at in the films- he doesn't display any kind of disassociation or distance from his actions. In fact, he rather proudly immediately own up to them, the first time.
Sw books have made it clear in vader's mind anakin was different personality, vader didn't consider them 1 and same.
Do some reading on subject before sprouting non-sense next time eh?
Sure, sure. I will totally sort through the rejected spam-fiction as a source for a specific author's interpretation of someone else's character. Definitely.
Are you even aware what fuels Vader is hatred? Specifically hatred of himself. He hates himself more than anybody else in galaxy. And it's that hatred that sustains himself and gives him power. This hatred was strong enough that had Vader been Vader at the end of RoTJ he could have survived with his hatred and anger alone. Vader has survived his suit been wrecked before. Despite suit being what keeps him alive normally in need with sheer hatred Vader CAN sustain himself(and there's even more impressive feat by dark side user available. Sith who should be by all right long dead keeping himself going with sheer hatred). But as he had abandoned Emperor and the dark side the personality of Anakin resurfaced and with that he lost the dark side and could not sustain himself(and all the hatred and anger had vanished replaced with other feelings).
None of this points to a separate personality. Anyone who did the sort of things Anakin did should definitely hate themselves.
And, honestly, with this interpretation, letting himself die seems like a cheap and easy way out of dealing with any repercussions of all the terrible things he's done.
Yeah Vader died, then Luke and Leia had to deal with the consequences. Leia got outed in the Senate as Vaders daughter and was immediately expelled and then barred from being a Senator in the New Republic. Then Mon Mothma died and the Senate went back to the exact same thing it was in the old Republic.
And in a Lame to Fame of frankly staggering proportions? I’m off to Scotland to see mah Paw for his birthdays week next week. And we’re off to a tiny town called Crieff.
Where Obi-Wan and Wedge both grew up and were educated.
Well, given I’m off to see Daddykins, I’d just point out they kind of look alike, Daddykins isnae deid and he’s thinking of Mumsie, then tell him to bog off?
If only Star Wars had an extensive history of background material to draw upon, they could make stuff like this...
That was such a baffling statement from Kennedy, but as time goes on I think it's become clearer and clear that had more to do with Disney wanting to screw people out of royalty payments, and they've been more and more willing to bring in and republish legends stuff as authors sign on to the new (terrible) terms.
But I would be remis if I didn't point out that they can do some pretty fire dogfight shorts too.
Star Wars Celebration is now underway. So far Andor’s teaser is out, as is a trailer for Mando Season 3. We’ve also had Skeleton Crew, starring Jude Law announced.
Struggling to find much more than Andor. Lots of YouTube cretins with poorly shot, out of focus phone footage, and even more “fan” attempts at trailers masquerading as the real thing. Even more cretinous reaction vids too.
Hopefully proper quality videos will be shared soon.
And of course more to come, as this is a multiple day event.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and seems we get Mando S3 in February 2023. I’d rather it be sooner, but at least it’s something to look forward to during the most depressing part of the year.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Obi Wan Kenobi is out in the wild.
Spoiler:
Well, it’s a very different pace so far, compared to Mando and Boba. Very much going for drama over spectacle.
Ben is a pretty broken man at the beginning, which makes sense.
Trailer somewhat wrong footed us as well, which is nice.
Young Leia is great. Fantastic actress especially given she’s so young.
Some pretty cool ship designs, new to my eyes.
Leia’s cousin is a melt and hopefully will come to a sticky end.
Obi-Two (yes I’m going with that, no I don’t care) just starting the now.
Spoiler:
OK now it gets some pace. Not that the first episode lacked it as such. We’re just getting down to it more.
Really really impressed with this. If had to describe the show, I’d say it’s quite sober. Not exactly the right term, but it’s very much driven by the drama and acting over pew pew.
Young Leia continues to impress. If only they’d found an actor of her chops for Episode 1 instead of Jake Lloyd (sorry Jake).
Of course that can’t be the end of The Inquisitor, as he’s due a fiery death in Rebels. Unless he has a More Evil Twin? Time will tell, I guess.
Very much enjoying this show. Nice to get another new location in Star Wars too.
I think it really is the end of the grand inqusitor. or at least this one. I'm convinced Lucasfilm pulled a fast one on us and it's actually a completely differant character and we where just lead to belive it was the same one with a revised apperance
Lil' Leia is so adorable! Despite only having met her briefly, she is 100% her mother's daughter, that's for sure. I had completely forgotten that she was meant to be in this - read one story about it ages ago - and the way they've used her in both episodes was very good, even if fully grown adults seem incapable of chasing after her, despite her tiny legs.
The bit where she's talking to Obi-Wan towards the second episode, and he stops because she reminds him so much of Padme, I have to admit, that got to me. There was suddenly a lot of dust in the room. Honest.
Owen and Bail are good, and it's nice to see their original actors return. Hell, even 3P0 got a cameo (surprised there's no Artoo). Aunt Beru from the prequels is back, but she has only appeared from afar. Maybe we'll visit the Lars homestead later on, and she can have more to do (and more lines than she did in Episode 2).
Kumail Nanjiani played an interesting character. I figured he was a charlatan, but at the same time whilst he was fleecing that family for credits, he was still providing a service, however much he was overcharging. I loved his confrontation with Reva. "What's the bounty on me now? A million! You'll never get it!".
And speaking of Reva... hmm... ok, putting aside the issue that she's obviously going to turn good by the end because Disney cannot allow characters like that to stay bad guys or even anti-heroes (Ref. Iden Verso, Boba Fett, Second Sister), I kind of like that she's desperate to find Kenobi so she can curry favour with Vader. I'm a bit weirded out that she (and presumably the other Inquisitors) know that Anakin is Vader. I'd've thought Vader might have kept that closer to his cyber-chest.
I also don't understand why they keep calling her 'Reva'. The other Inquisitors have always gone by their designation, so why the sudden need to break from that and call her Reva? I'm not saying she can't have a real name - Second Sister's real name was Trilla after all - but why would they call her that? Maybe it's because the other Inquisitors look upon her with so much disdain that they won't even use her proper Inquisitorial designation?
Speaking of disdain, oh... Fifth Brother. What did they do to you? Dude was a fething monster in Rebels. And now...
And this is no slight against Sung Kang - he's doing perfectly well in the show - but did he have to play the Fifth Brother? They couldn't've come up with a new Inquisitor for him?
And then there's the Grand Inquisitor. Is the reason he looks nothing like the Grand Inquisitor we know because he's not, 'cause he's fething dead already? Unless it's going to be revealed that he just walked it off, or that he's a clone or something, I just don't understand the choice to do what they've done to him. And how will Reva talk her way out of this one? I figure Mr. Force Choke is coming her way.
That just leaves Obi-wan, with Ewan giving a wonderfully subdued and understated performance. The Grand Inquisitor's point about Jedi hunting themselves is very true, but with Obi the fight's been beaten out of him. But then, the look on his face when he finds out Anakin is alive. Shock, hurt, fear, confusion, panic - they all shoot across his face in those few moments, and it's a powerful performance.
If it weren't for the ending that we all know is coming, I'd be on cloud 9 with this series already. What we've seen so far is great, but Wandavision was A+ grade entertainment until it shat in its own mouth during the finale, so you can't just be good except for the end. I hope that what I suspect, and what we later heard, was wrong... but I doubt it. Again, it was obvious from the first trailer, which is a shame.
People keep complaining that characters don’t look exactly like their Rebels incarnations, but that ain’t gonna happen because Rebels was rather exaggerated/stylized with their designs. I mean they took this guy…
Spoiler:
And stretched his face out into this…
Spoiler:
Also I kept yelling Parkour! during the second episode.
The way she talked to the droids like people (even being called out about it at one point) reminded me of Rey.
Watched it, I'm not overly enthused about it so far, I still have a lot of animosity towards the prequels and I'm definitely not in the group of people who grew up learning to love them so I think they have a bit of an uphill battle to win me over. There's some fun worldbuilding here and there though.
The Good:
Spoiler:
I think we've settled for good that the Grand Inquisitor here is not the same one from Rebels, and we can at least get away from whatever part of the design complaints come from that misconception. I'm actually kind of interested to see where intrigue among the inquisitors is going to go given that we know Vader factors in later.
The Bad:
Spoiler:
Mostly nit-picks, pacing felt a little off, the parkour looked bad, etc. No real deal breakers, except I'm not really hooked by it yet but I don't know how much of that is me being wary after Boba.
The Worldbuilding:
Spoiler:
Seeing Morrison as a clone vet begging on the street hit me sideways and did more to sell this city as a lived in space than the street vendors and drug pushing kids did. Great use of a cameo.
the jedi who says "us all" I assume that he was part of the kids we saw in episode 1. and that the kids we see in the start of the first episode are who obi-wan and Leia are going to. I also think it's going to end with vader showing up, butchering the young jedi as he seeks out Obi-wan...
the jedi who says "us all" I assume that he was part of the kids we saw in episode 1. and that the kids we see in the start of the first episode are who obi-wan and Leia are going to. I also think it's going to end with vader showing up, butchering the young jedi as he seeks out Obi-wan...
I mean, if that does happen...
Spoiler:
Obi-wan is going to have to eke out some kind of victory in order to allow Vader's "when I left you, I was but the learner" boast make any kind of sense.
the jedi who says "us all" I assume that he was part of the kids we saw in episode 1. and that the kids we see in the start of the first episode are who obi-wan and Leia are going to. I also think it's going to end with vader showing up, butchering the young jedi as he seeks out Obi-wan...
Fair observation.
My only grump?
Spoiler:
The Grand Inquisitor extolling how the Jedi virtues (selflessness, standing up for the weak) feels a bit off, given the pains Palpatine took to paint them as seditious knobheads when announcing the reformation into the Galactic Empire.
I guess he can get away with some grandstanding because Tattooine is such a backwater. Still irritated me on a deeply nerdy level.
The complaints I read here are all the reasons why it's a terrible idea to keep going back and filling in these blanks. Every word in every sentence has to sync up with everything we know is going to come later. These guys live, those guys die,
Spoiler:
Vader and the inquisitors cannot confront Obi on Tatooine. Also, the information the inquisitor found about Leia needs to get purged at some point? Because if she, the worst of the inquisitors found it. AND it resulted in all of this including the death of a grand inquisitor. Then how the hell does nobody else find it for another 10 years? The plot itself is stepping on it's own canon toes.
In fact the idea that the Inquisitor confronts the uncle was completely tension-less drivel for me.
You are not going to get killed, or injured, and you are not going to give Obi-wan up. Because you can't. So it's just a long empty pause with nothing holding it up waiting for the other inquisitor to break the (not tension) silence to move the scene along.
I will say it again. Go 500 years into the future or thousand years in the past. Get the feth away from anything to do with this time period.
That's theoretically what High Republic is for, some centuries before <current era> (though I suspect they'll sneak in a young Yoda cameo).
They just haven't gotten around to putting it on screen yet (though it is popping up in tie-in materials). I don't think they're entirely convinced that people will actually line up for Star Wars without familiar characters driving the ticket sales/subscriptions.
There's also the unspoken availability problem. There's only going to be so many opportunities to cast Obi Wan at a certain age, or Rey or Finn or whatever if they opt to do sequel era stuff down the line. Given their statements on Solo it seems they're convinced recasting is a death sentence (because that's an easy excuse for Solo's performance that doesn't require them to examine their aggressive release schedule or tendency to release directors in the middle of a rushed production) and the very obvious fact that their deepfake tech just isn't there yet, they're clearly eager to do the kinds of stories they are uniquely capable of doing right now, right now.
And I'm not 100% sure if he's appeared in the flesh, but young Yoda is definitely known in the High Republic era, plenty of young impressionable Jedi have heard the 'Luminous Beings are we' speech.
But I don't care if I ever see any of those characters ever again on screen. I would much rather see that 1000 years in the future where Rey is a mythological figure who founded whatever comes next. We can find out about the impact of her life that way. I don't need to see it actually happen.
I feel like we have already seen her do the most interesting thing in her life. And we don't need to see a bad attempt to escalate to something bigger and more bombastic than 100,000 star destroyers that are also death stars.
I don’t disagree with the desire/need to see different eras. But, for the majority of its existence, to most folk who’ve heard of Star Wars, it’s been about Vader and Luke
The back filling of course really started with the sublime Clone Wars. That did a bang up job of telling an important part of the story the movies never really bothered with. It also helped us chart the corruption and downfall of the Jedi Order
Rebels and Rogue One go hand in hand for me. Neither are tales you necessarily need to know. But both are well told and thoroughly entertaining.
Indeed the only entry so far I question the purpose of is Solo. Cards on the table? I really enjoyed Solo. It has some fantastic moments, and I like to see various bits followed up on. But overall? The film just doesn’t really serve any particular narrative purpose.
Kenobi? Well, it’s very early days but I’m very happy with what we’ve seen. H.B.M.C. Pretty much covered my thoughts. And it feels like it’s adding depth to Kenobi as a character, tying in nicely to my mind with Yoda’s Spirit chinwag with Ezra in Rebels.
Now, will it stick the landing? Who can tell. But so far it feels like it has a purpose and a direction, and I don’t think anyone should underestimate that. I mean, compare to Book of Boba Fett. Again, I largely enjoyed that, but it didn’t really feel like the plot had agency as such.
speaking of the Book, I cannot escape the feeling that part of the choice for Boba being so tied to Tatooine was a desire to re-use and cross-use as much of their Tatooine sets for several shows to justify the construction costs.
on Obi-wan
Spoiler:
on the whole, i enjoyed it. the first few scenes took a while to really "catch" me, and some of the CGI on obi-wans "not-camel" really stood out as fake to me (I'm guessing it was party forced by the need to hide the actual camel he was riding, but meh, needs must)
its nice to see alderann and this new place (hong kong/shanghai IN SPACE!!!) get some airtime, they are clearly trying to strike a balance between the "known" locations for that nostalgia feels and new locations they can explore new ideas in. i feel that boda fetts "mods" gang would have been a better fit in this show, for that matter.
I dont know how this show and Rebels are going to interact, given the increasing divergence between the two. Either the Grand Inquisitor is has been replaced by another one who happens to be simmilar, they have some form of "fake out" with him surviving (which really weakens Mrs Anger-Management if she cant even off her boss, which is like Sith 101) or they are going to actively de-canonise parts of Rebels in favour of the live action shows, which is a odd choice given how much they are actively RE-canonising form rebels via the live action (the inquisitors, their sister/brother terminology, Ahsoka, thrawn, etc).
I do want to say that I LIKE McGreggor Obi Wan. He is the best part of the prequels by a very large margin and he is nailing it here. Any issues I have are not with him. He's great. So far the bits and things going on in the show are great. If it didn't have everything that came before it weighing down moments in the show like the middle of the street scene I described in spoilers would be really excellent. But they DO have all that history in there. And it IS weighing it down.
The first two episodes were alright. Nothing too exciting but a solid setup for things to come with the usual mix of good, bad and horrible Disney has provided over the years.
Spoiler:
Obi Wan worked for me. Contrary to Luke in TLJ, it actually makes sense for him to be a disheartened recluse within the context of the story. He's out of shape and needs a good reason to get going, but they don't overplay it.
That reason is Leia, which is fine. She seems well cast and there were some genuine moments of adorableness, especially the ones with Bale Organa. They did however include some slapstick chase scenes that completely took me out of the experience. Leia should not outrun adults on a regular basis, especially not Obi Wan when their life is in danger.
Some will say that the show should revolve around Obi Wan protecting and guiding young Luke from the shadows instead (especially with the Inquisitors hunting Jedi on Tatooine), but I guess they believed they could do more with a witty and loudmouthed child Leia, which is completely fine and a nice bit of characterisation for her.
Reva is an utter disaster in every way, I hope we won't have to suffer her for long.
It makes 100% sense that it's Leia and it would make no sense that it's Luke. Leia clearly knows Obi Wan by episode 4. After all, he is her only hope. Luke doesn't know who the feth he is. This establishes why leia would call on him at all.
It's true that Leia at least knows about Obi Wan in a new hope (presumably from her foster father), but not that they ever met in person. I do agree it does make sense to take the show down that road, however.
It's true that Leia at least knows about Obi Wan in a new hope (presumably from her foster father), but not that they ever met in person. I do agree it does make sense to take the show down that road, however.
Spoiler:
It does make Leia particularly callous when this guy who saves her life ends up being turned into a pile of robes while saving her again and she doesn't even spare a second glance let alone a tear. The pitfalls of doing this back filling and starwars street.
You know….this is almost a Noir Detective Show. We’ve Obi-wan as the jaded, world weary broken down ex-cop, who never forgave himself for taking down his corrupt former partner.
Then, one day, against his better judgement, he’s given a case which forces him out of his funk. Climb outta ya bottle Kenobi, the dame needs ya.
It's true that Leia at least knows about Obi Wan in a new hope (presumably from her foster father), but not that they ever met in person. I do agree it does make sense to take the show down that road, however.
Spoiler:
It does make Leia particularly callous when this guy who saves her life ends up being turned into a pile of robes while saving her again and she doesn't even spare a second glance let alone a tear. The pitfalls of doing this back filling and starwars street.
Leia just saw her planet and everyone she knew blown to bits in front of her eyes the day before.. It's likely she was having difficulty processing those emotions. Also royalty tends to be trained to "put on a stiff upper lip" I bet once she was alone she just SHATTERED
I dont know how this show and Rebels are going to interact, given the increasing divergence between the two. Either the Grand Inquisitor is has been replaced by another one who happens to be simmilar, they have some form of "fake out" with him surviving (which really weakens Mrs Anger-Management if she cant even off her boss, which is like Sith 101) or they are going to actively de-canonise parts of Rebels in favour of the live action shows, which is a odd choice given how much they are actively RE-canonising form rebels via the live action (the inquisitors, their sister/brother terminology, Ahsoka, thrawn, etc).
Spoiler:
The Obi Wan Grand Inquisitor is a male Pau'an with the same face markings and rank as the one in Rebels, separated by only five or six years. I can't conceive of a reason for making almost the exact same character twice, but having one of them be the other's long lost twin brother or whatever. There's no point to it, nor any established foundation to work off of and receive some kind of payoff. That would just be a mind-boggling choice.
I think he'll just recover from a grave but ultimately non-lethal wound. There's no need to screw around with continuity or anything and the only thing we have to deal with is some divergence in his make-up and costume from the animated version, which is unfortunate but hardly the end of the world.
Is it actually a problem if Third Sister isn't very successful in her endeavors? I mean, we know she's not going to catch Obi Wan and that's her one ticket for advancement, and also out of the mess she made when she stabbed the Grand Inquisitor. She either wins Vader's favor by handing him Obi Wan or she's toast. If she can't accomplish that, there's precious little benefit to succeeding in anything else. I guess I could see Lucasfilm wanting to keep her around. There'd be some sense to seeing Vader, who has no stake in the matter, let the newly recovered Grand Inquisitor deal with her and keep the matter internal. He'd leave her alive and both of them have a plentiful foundation for future conflict. If HBMC isn't just paranoid and she becomes a Disney princess like Boba, then we can talk about how having her look incompetent is a problem. If she's still around and one of the bad guys, that just won't be a problem.
I'm a bit weirded out that she (and presumably the other Inquisitors) know that Anakin is Vader. I'd've thought Vader might have kept that closer to his cyber-chest.
Spoiler:
That struck me as off when I saw it, but thinking about it why would it be a big deal? In Rebels the Grand Inquisitor says to Kanan that the Jedi archives are very complete, and Revenge of the Sith shows a recording of Palpi calling Anakin Lord Vader. Presumably the archives are available to only a handful of people, but due to their work Inquisitors count among those. It shouldn't be shocking for a bunch of turned Jedi who hold high ranks in the Empire that their boss is a turned Jedi who holds a high rank in the Empire. There's precious little point in keeping that a secret, I should think, even if it would be trivial for the Emperor or Vader to do so if they wished.
I was under the impression that the "official" line on darth vader was that he was the "Only good jedi", who turned on the rest of his corrupt order and lead the purge to free the galaxy of the jedi-backed Republic, and was a close friend of the Emperor (which was how the emperor was able to "save" him), and became darth vader.
Its not impossible for someone with knowledge of the late republics politics to work out hes Anakin Skywalker, famous jedi and noted ally of the now Emperor. Given that vader actively distances himself form his past ("that name no longer has meaning to me"), it might be a case that its somewhat known but everyone avoids talking about it keep breathing.
plus, several of the inquisitors are former Padawans (indeed, im pretty sure at least one of the younglings we see fleeing at the start are supposed to be an inquisitor as children), who would have physically met skywalker and might be able to instantly make the connection once they feel his mind (same as Ashoka does). So, them knowing makes more sense than (for example) director Krennic knowing would.
In the new canon novel Bloodlines, which I’ll spoiler just in case, and to hold myself to my own standards
Spoiler:
Leia’s political career is massively derailed when her identity as Vader’s Daughter is revealed. So his identity as Anakin must’ve been fairly common knowledge, at least in certain circles, for anyone to give a damn.
I mean Vader was a monster and by the time of ANH was a very well known monster. When he shows up in Rebels he orchestrates the death of a government minister, destroys a squadron of rebel ships including their command vessel, and burns a refugee camp.
According to the comics people do not know who Vader is. One of Padme’s handmaids is currently on this big quest of intrigue and revenge to kill Vader for the murder of Padme and Anakin. They’ve done other stories with similar references to people not knowing who he is.
Even the Inquisitors being former Jedi isn’t a widely known thing. Was a scene where some were hunting a Padawan down with a clone trooper escort, and the Padawan was able to create a diversion by naming all of the Inquisitors’ Jedi names and ranks and invoking Order 66 to get the troopers to turn on them.
I have one very minor complain so far with Kenobi. Leia running away awkwardly slowly from everybody during the entire episode 2. Seriously couldn't they get a kid that runs a little bit faster. I know she's a ten years old, but she's a slow ten years old and we needed a very fleet of foot ten years old for several scenes (and to sell Leia as a young adventurous tomboy in the making).
Spoiler:
as for the apparent death of the Grand Inquisitor, I suspect he will stay dead for the entire show only to be brought back in the post-credit/near ending scene. 3rd Sister will be the main antagonist who will gain the rank of Grand Inquisitor for managing to capturing Obi-Wan Kenobi and bringing him before Vader. Kenobi and Vader will then exchange some words. Kenobi will escape thanks to little Leia's help with her cute robot friend (seriously that robot is adorable) and 3rd Sister will get the blame and get killed by Vader for it. Then, we see that the Grand Inquisitor has survived his injury and with the failure of his apprentice, he gets another chance. Pretty standard stuff for Star Wars.
I am not too surprised that 3rd Sister knows who Vader actually is. She was a padawan during the Clone Wars and Skywalker was very famous. I was surprised she was so confident on taking on Obi Wan alone though. While we know he has been laying low and basically shut himself from the Force, she can't be sure of that and taking on a powerful Jedi master just like that is probably a bit foolish.
Third Sister just spent the last ten years getting told how awesome the dark side of the force is, probably on a daily basis, and how awesome you can be if you embrace it and learn to wield it. I don't imagine that to be an environment that fosters humility. She may actually believe that she's a juiced up force wielder hunting down a burned out wreck. Yeah, it's foolish, but that's the dark side for you, isn't it? Lots of eager users that overestimate their power that rarely become more than useful tools to the few clever ones that are capable of planning for the long term.
As an alternative Third Sister seems pretty unambiguously set up for desperation. Even if she realizes the danger of overestimating herself and underestimating Obi Wan, she may not feel like she has a choice. It's her one shot at escaping the Grand Inquisitor's ridicule and bullying.
Episode 2 down, another very pretty bunch of sets (also finally twigged that lil Leia is the girl from that kids super movie a few years back)
With Geifer regarding 3rd sister, its even worse as its made clear she's done her homework but still thinks a bit of Dark Side rage can bring down a man whose faced down and beat some of the most dangerous beings of the Clone Wars, Maul, Grevious, Skywalker, not sure if its setting up a redemption arc or just making her arrogance her undoing
As for the Grand Inquisitor, given Palp is always three steps ahead of everyone maybe there's a secret clone program for Force sensitives, I'm sure there was a clone of a Jedi and maybe even Luke in one of the old EU books
Is it actually a problem if Third Sister isn't very successful in her endeavors? I mean, we know she's not going to catch Obi Wan and that's her one ticket for advancement, and also out of the mess she made when she stabbed the Grand Inquisitor. She either wins Vader's favor by handing him Obi Wan or she's toast. If she can't accomplish that, there's precious little benefit to succeeding in anything else. I guess I could see Lucasfilm wanting to keep her around. There'd be some sense to seeing Vader, who has no stake in the matter, let the newly recovered Grand Inquisitor deal with her and keep the matter internal. He'd leave her alive and both of them have a plentiful foundation for future conflict. If HBMC isn't just paranoid and she becomes a Disney princess like Boba, then we can talk about how having her look incompetent is a problem. If she's still around and one of the bad guys, that just won't be a problem.
well, it can become an issue if Third Sister is supposed to be the "primary" antagonist who drives the story, as she has been so far in the last two episodes. If the climatic battle at the end of the series is Third Sister vs Obi-wan, but we've watched her fail for 10 episodes straight, its really not going to feel tense.
So far, she seems be a good example of the problems of unrestricted cartoon evilness, with poor impulse control, a bully's belief that she can just scare whatever information she needs out of people without consequence, and a serious disrespect for authority that runs counter to the normal sith "grovel, but plan to kill and replace them" style of following. Im genuinely surprised she hasn't managed to get herself "killed" on a mission by one of the other Inquisitors yet, given none seem to like her and shes obviously and openly gunning for their jobs. either she is a lot more competent at lightsabre fighting than scheming, or shes got a backer outside the inquisitors thats staying their hands..
Is it actually a problem if Third Sister isn't very successful in her endeavors? I mean, we know she's not going to catch Obi Wan and that's her one ticket for advancement, and also out of the mess she made when she stabbed the Grand Inquisitor. She either wins Vader's favor by handing him Obi Wan or she's toast. If she can't accomplish that, there's precious little benefit to succeeding in anything else. I guess I could see Lucasfilm wanting to keep her around. There'd be some sense to seeing Vader, who has no stake in the matter, let the newly recovered Grand Inquisitor deal with her and keep the matter internal. He'd leave her alive and both of them have a plentiful foundation for future conflict. If HBMC isn't just paranoid and she becomes a Disney princess like Boba, then we can talk about how having her look incompetent is a problem. If she's still around and one of the bad guys, that just won't be a problem.
well, it can become an issue if Third Sister is supposed to be the "primary" antagonist who drives the story, as she has been so far in the last two episodes. If the climatic battle at the end of the series is Third Sister vs Obi-wan, but we've watched her fail for 10 episodes straight, its really not going to feel tense.
So far, she seems be a good example of the problems of unrestricted cartoon evilness, with poor impulse control, a bully's belief that she can just scare whatever information she needs out of people without consequence, and a serious disrespect for authority that runs counter to the normal sith "grovel, but plan to kill and replace them" style of following. Im genuinely surprised she hasn't managed to get herself "killed" on a mission by one of the other Inquisitors yet, given none seem to like her and shes obviously and openly gunning for their jobs. either she is a lot more competent at lightsabre fighting than scheming, or shes got a backer outside the inquisitors thats staying their hands..
We know for a fact VADER and Obi-wan are going to throw down. So no she's not going to be the "climatic end battle"
I'm amazed that Disney purchased the rights to Star Wars and decided to simply produce the most uninspired, profoundly mediocre content with it. It's stupendous. You have the rights to Star Wars...and the best thing to come out of it since is Fallen Order and the animated series...outside of the DT, nothing has been flat out bad, but it's all incredibly bland.
Concerning Obi-Wan.
Spoiler:
Focusing on either of the Skywalker twins is a consistency error.
Obi-Wan not knowing Leia's age is dumb. He was at their birth.
The Leia-Mercenary chase scene resembled me play-chasing my 5 year old nephew...
Reva could be good with a better actress, but the one in question falls short at being menacing.
Reva's parkour scene was basically pointless.
Look who turned up at celebration Choppers back and somewhere a shopping trolley is missing a wheel. It's new version from the one in Rogue One which was only seen in the background and is less detailed.
Apparently they showed a short clip of Ahsoka on the Ghost with a certain green skinned Twi'lek piloting but only seen from behind.
On Kenobi I enjoyed the 2 episodes for the most part the Inquisitors seem to be the weak link here they just don't feel like they did in Rebels the good cop bad cop between Reva and the fifth brother just felt off but I suppose internal bickering is a Dark Side trait after all. - at least the Grand Inquisitors eyes had the red/yellow tint. At this point there are to many canon hoops to jump through Lucas really wrote himself into a corner in some aspects so bending (or breaking) canon is to be expected so I just go with it now if it helps the story.
Vader and the inquisitors cannot confront Obi on Tatooine. Also, the information the inquisitor found about Leia needs to get purged at some point? Because if she, the worst of the inquisitors found it. AND it resulted in all of this including the death of a grand inquisitor. Then how the hell does nobody else find it for another 10 years? The plot itself is stepping on it's own canon toes.
.
Spoiler:
There is no indication that the Inquisitors know who Leia really is. Reva just used her because she's Bail Organa's daughter, and Bail and Obi-Wan were friends.
Vader and the inquisitors cannot confront Obi on Tatooine. Also, the information the inquisitor found about Leia needs to get purged at some point? Because if she, the worst of the inquisitors found it. AND it resulted in all of this including the death of a grand inquisitor. Then how the hell does nobody else find it for another 10 years? The plot itself is stepping on it's own canon toes.
.
Spoiler:
There is no indication that the Inquisitors know who Leia really is. Reva just used her because she's Bail Organa's daughter, and Bail and Obi-Wan were friends.
Spoiler:
That is not what she said in the episode. By public record they know Leia is not Bail's actual daughter. She found a connection between Leia specifically and Obi. Obi has a metric feth ton of friends on public record from the clone wars. It wasn't Leia that was kidnapped by happenstance. They don't say specifically what she found or what that connection is. But it's obvious she found something more than "Obi Wan has a friend."
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: In the new canon novel Bloodlines, which I’ll spoiler just in case, and to hold myself to my own standards
Spoiler:
Leia’s political career is massively derailed when her identity as Vader’s Daughter is revealed. So his identity as Anakin must’ve been fairly common knowledge, at least in certain circles, for anyone to give a damn.
His identity as Anakin Skywalker and Leias father was revealed *in* Bloodlines. It was not common knowledge.
Guys, this show clearly has really strong prequel trilogy vibes. That means even casual application of logic will cause the story to fall apart.
Spoiler:
It's been mentioned, but Leia the 10 year old should not be able to outrun any adults. Maybe on her home turf in the forest, but certainly not out in a foreign slum.
Spoiler:
Obi-Wan's slaughtering and processing job is a great excuse for train shots of his crew, and the dull routine he goes through. There cannot be any economic benefit from hauling workers and processing facilities to a carcass of this sandwhale daily. Those expeditions work when they leave for months at a time and return with holds full of meat, which would have also really helped keep a low profile. Cameling into the city, and taking a train to a work site makes you very, very visible.
Spoiler:
And then there's the timing. You call Obiwan, then show up on Tattooine? And the inquisitors miraculously arrive simultaneously to surprise the angry one's trap? Do they always travel in a pack? Doesn't that really defeat the purpose of a jedi hunting group, if you are all on one planet out of the whole Galactic Empire?
None of these things make it a bad show, and the interplay with
Spoiler:
Kumail's fake Jedi
was absolutely delightful! I hope we get more of him. But Kenobi's playing by prequel rules, boys. Of course the waffle house chef recognizes the darts the Jedi library can't. Of course, the younglings can outsmart the trained Jedi masters. Yes, gambling on a child racing a pod is definitely the most logical way to get the hyperdrive parts. Roll with it!
Leia running away from the most inept kidnappers was unintentionally hilarious. They were duck waddling behind her as actors to purposefully slow down and acting shocked when stoped by branches clearly in their view. It reminded me of a low speed foot chase version of Joey from Friends when he was on the infomercial for a widget that made the almost impossible task of opening a carton of milk/juice feasible.
As for the Grand Inquisitor, given Palp is always three steps ahead of everyone maybe there's a secret clone program for Force sensitives, I'm sure there was a clone of a Jedi and maybe even Luke in one of the old EU books
I mean, we've had dark side force users on screen survive being cut in half, and being dismembered and dipped in lava. Baldy here just copped a flesh wound, by that standard.
warboss wrote: Leia running away from the most inept kidnappers was unintentionally hilarious. They were duck waddling behind her as actors to purposefully slow down and acting shocked when stoped by branches clearly in their view. It reminded me of a low speed foot chase version of Joey from Friends when he was on the infomercial for a widget that made the almost impossible task of opening a carton of milk/juice feasible.
One of them did have a limp, but the others didn’t really have an excuse.
warboss wrote: Leia running away from the most inept kidnappers was unintentionally hilarious. They were duck waddling behind her as actors to purposefully slow down and acting shocked when stoped by branches clearly in their view. It reminded me of a low speed foot chase version of Joey from Friends when he was on the infomercial for a widget that made the almost impossible task of opening a carton of milk/juice feasible.
One of them did have a limp, but the others didn’t really have an excuse.
Maybe they went to nice criminal university, you know the one that also teaches you to fall over if lightly tapped by tiny heroine sorts (although that one in the last Nolan Batman overdid it by just falling over without Selina even touching him)
I'm even more excited about Ahsoka than before. Appears Filloni is just using the show as an excuse to make Rebels Season 5. Live action Hera. Live action Ghost. Live action Sabine. Likely a live action Jacen. Live action Murder Bot. All good!
That is not what she said in the episode. By public record they know Leia is not Bail's actual daughter. She found a connection between Leia specifically and Obi. Obi has a metric feth ton of friends on public record from the clone wars. It wasn't Leia that was kidnapped by happenstance. They don't say specifically what she found or what that connection is. But it's obvious she found something more than "Obi Wan has a friend."
Yeah but...
Spoiler:
...she doesn't know what the connection is between 'Lil Leia and Vader.
All he knows is:
1. Obi = Jedi 2. Jedi = Protect 3. Bail = Daughter 4. Obi + Bail = Good friends. 5. Kidnap Daughter of Good Friend = Flush out Obi
Could go either way. I got the impression he's the only Specter who retired while the other terrorists kept doing what they're doing. Then again if they bring back everyone else, how could they possibly resist in the case of Zeb?
And yeah, he's on my list of things I'd be interested to see in live action. Lucasfilm doesn't exactly have a great track record getting these translations right. You just have to look at the Grand Inquisitor as the latest example. But it sure would be interesting to see.
Vader and the inquisitors cannot confront Obi on Tatooine. Also, the information the inquisitor found about Leia needs to get purged at some point? Because if she, the worst of the inquisitors found it. AND it resulted in all of this including the death of a grand inquisitor. Then how the hell does nobody else find it for another 10 years? The plot itself is stepping on it's own canon toes.
.
Spoiler:
There is no indication that the Inquisitors know who Leia really is. Reva just used her because she's Bail Organa's daughter, and Bail and Obi-Wan were friends.
Spoiler:
That is not what she said in the episode. By public record they know Leia is not Bail's actual daughter. She found a connection between Leia specifically and Obi. Obi has a metric feth ton of friends on public record from the clone wars. It wasn't Leia that was kidnapped by happenstance. They don't say specifically what she found or what that connection is. But it's obvious she found something more than "Obi Wan has a friend."
at this point you're deliberatly not listening to whats presented and filling in the blanks with rubbish so you can be angry..
all we're told is that
Spoiler:
Reeva discovered a link between Bail and Obi-wan in the archives. and kidnapped Leia because she belives it will lure Obi-wan out of hiding
that is all we're told. is it an absolutely leap in logic to make on Reeva's point? YES IT IS, but as we have seen in MANY cases, sometimes the force allows you to make "intuative leaps" I'm happy with the explination, but then again I'm not sitting through these films, nitpicking it like crazy I'm watching and enjoying.
killing random people on the street for seemingly no reason feels off and Overly evil for him though. Like I thought he was taking them hostage, but nope, just starts offing them.
Also how the heck do tunnels work in this universe?
"We meet again, at last. The circle is now complete. When I left you I was but the learner. Now, *I* am the master. Well... except that one other time where I totally curb-stomped you and burned you alive, and a slow-moving droid rescued you and I let you get away for some reason. But other than that, totally the master now. Yeah."
I guess that confirms Rebels isn't canon anymore... *sigh*
AduroT wrote: Also how the heck do tunnels work in this universe?
We’re yet to see the Grand Inquisitor’s corpse. Vader and Maul both survived significantly worse. And with Lightsabers cauterising, if the pain and shock doesn’t do you in, you’re not going to bleed out.
Pretty good entry i though. Obi’s getaway was odd - but could be Anakin pushing through.
I did find Anakin’s projection/Obi’s hallucination pretty well done.
So something I’m sure someone will complain about, and I want to preemptively counter, is the scene where
Spoiler:
Vader kind of suddenly sneaks up on Ben, and people will probably say He totally would have heard him coming with the loud breathing! The comic covers this once.
I’m totally down for Vader killing anyone who fails him or gets in his way or just kind of inconveniences him really, but pulling random civvies out of their houses and killing them in the street as he strolls by seems a step too far I think.
AduroT wrote: So something I’m sure someone will complain about, and I want to preemptively counter, is the scene where
Spoiler:
Vader kind of suddenly sneaks up on Ben, and people will probably say He totally would have heard him coming with the loud breathing! The comic covers this once.
no need to use a comic book, we see vader manage to sneak up on Luke in TESB
I’m totally down for Vader killing anyone who fails him or gets in his way or just kind of inconveniences him really, but pulling random civvies out of their houses and killing them in the street as he strolls by seems a step too far I think.
I think i agree with gert on this one.
Spoiler:
Hes deliberately using the killing of innocents as a way to antagonise and draw out Kenobi, in the same vein as the inquisitors in the first episode, where reva threw a knife to force the jedi on the run to reveal himself. As always with the better written dark side users, violence is a means to an end, not the end itself.
"We meet again, at last. The circle is now complete. When I left you I was but the learner. Now, *I* am the master. Well... except that one other time where I totally curb-stomped you and burned you alive, and a slow-moving droid rescued you and I let you get away for some reason. But other than that, totally the master now. Yeah."
its clear hes not trying to actaully beat obi-wan here, just kinda toying with him and revelling in the despair, and setting him up for some A grade torture later. I had left the captions on when i watched it, and all the stormtroopers were babbling about trying to get across and not finding a way, so i guess the space-coal fire or whatever was impenetrable. I cant remember if we ever see Vader force jump in live action canon, maybe he lost that ability with his legs?
I agree its a bit of a problem with that they met here, but its not insurmountable, and lets face it, we all knew it was coming, and theirs plenty of time for Obi-wan to git gud and prove the new hope line correct.
Hell, he might even he allowing him to escape to let him lead them to the rest of this "Path" they have for funnelling Jedi away, underground railroad style.
Hes deliberately using the killing of innocents as a way to antagonise and draw out Kenobi, in the same vein as the inquisitors in the first episode, where reva threw a knife to force the jedi on the run to reveal himself. As always with the better written dark side users, violence is a means to an end, not the end itself.
Spoiler:
That. but it's probably even more Empire Strikes Back than that. Remember he tortured Han not for information but to use the emotional bond with Luke to send a Force e-mail. Obi Wan isn't just ethically challenged by the death of innocents, but physically discomforted via the Force. As if one, two, no three miners suddenly cried out in terror and then were silenced.
its clear hes not trying to actaully beat obi-wan here, just kinda toying with him and revelling in the despair, and setting him up for some A grade torture later. I had left the captions on when i watched it, and all the stormtroopers were babbling about trying to get across and not finding a way, so i guess the space-coal fire or whatever was impenetrable. I cant remember if we ever see Vader force jump in live action canon, maybe he lost that ability with his legs?
Spoiler:
Well, they could have just walked around. The mess of space coal didn't get larger after Vader spilled it. The camera just zoomed in so close that the Stormtroopers couldn't see that they could just walk past it five meters to their right.
Or Vader could have snuffed it out via the Force like he did only a minute earlier.
Or he could have lifted Obi Wan up with the Force and brought him across, possibly even at a safe height.
Best to assume he's bored sitting around Mustafar all day. He can finally play with his best buddy again and he's not in a hurry to end it. Come on, let the guy have some fun.
Vader is actually rather fire resistent because of his suit and Could have just walked thru it largely unencumbered. He Is how ever also somewhat afraid of fire, given his history with it. The same comic I referenced above also has Tarkin try employing flame throwers as a means of combating Vader on the theory you can’t block that with a light saber. While it’s proven correct, they barely slow him down before he just pops their fuel tanks with the force instead, but Tarkin notes his body language in that fight suggested some actual fear on his part.
), the bumbling battle droids are great (youngest's favourite scene so far is from Ep1, where Yoda tricks the droids into shooting each other), they thought Stinky the Hutt was cute, and that Jar Jar is amusing.
