Be aware the list will entice opponents to choose Assassinate with 5 fairly squishy characters.
The rest is similar to a list I run. The psychic phase will be critical to maximize, especially as Craftworld has very little activity in the Command Phase. Understand the psychic powers and how Seer Council and Focus Will work as you really need powers such as Fortune, Protect, Jinx, and Doom to be cast reliably.
I tend to not upgrade the weapons on the Wave Serpent as it entices me to shoot with them, which exposes it to return fire. This can be fatal as you really want the Reapers firing a full/near full strength for most of the game.
Be prepared to utilize Phantasm. Don't allow Wraithblades to be shot turn 1 without getting Protect and/or Fortune on them first. Some armies can shoot many of them off the board without those powers cast.
Yeah, the assassinate problem can only be solved through a. going down to three psykers and a wraith seer, b. my first setup with 2x wraithseers. that setup was a counter to assassinate. But its just too little value for to many points, Imo. or c. compromising on the psyker support. I think you need the MW from the doom seer and the fortune from the other farseer. Jinx/fortune is mandatory. so the compromise is quicken and the second cast of jinx/protect. Can we live without that?
the reaper serpent could be naked. I agree. But im just not sure I can create a screen good enough to not have them be tagged at some point and then the ekstra gus are super good. also, by your logik (which makes perfectly sense, why even give them spirit stones?).
Btw can I disembark the reapers while the serpent is in melee (presumed that they can all disembark without being in engagement range of cause), then fall back with the serpent and finally fore and fade the reapers back in? or does the fall back hinder that last embark.
I can see how the 2-detachment setup is strong for eldar. I run it all the time myself. but I really have a feeling one should go for a single detachment. we need those cp so badly. for seer council, fire n fade, lightning fast etc, etc. Thats why I feel farseer, farseer, warlock and then wraith seer from the heavy support slot is the best way. do you think the optimization of craftworld traits is more important than the cp-thing?
With this build making it one detachment would mean the melee units would miss out on preroll ones and the shooting units would miss out on masterfull.
How do people best use Wraith Guard within a mixed list? (i.e. not a wraith list).
I really enjoy wraithblades but whenever I have played their shooty counterparts, I have never deemed them to be worth their points cost.
They're good at killing what they fire at, but slow movement and short range usually means that they don't get to pick many targets.
I've considered giving them a serpent but i have other units i like to fire and fade - plus it's already an expensive unit without also paying for a transport.
Scoundrel80 wrote: Yeah, the assassinate problem can only be solved through a. going down to three psykers and a wraith seer, b. my first setup with 2x wraithseers. that setup was a counter to assassinate. But its just too little value for to many points, Imo. or c. compromising on the psyker support. I think you need the MW from the doom seer and the fortune from the other farseer. Jinx/fortune is mandatory. so the compromise is quicken and the second cast of jinx/protect. Can we live without that?
the reaper serpent could be naked. I agree. But im just not sure I can create a screen good enough to not have them be tagged at some point and then the ekstra gus are super good. also, by your logik (which makes perfectly sense, why even give them spirit stones?).
Btw can I disembark the reapers while the serpent is in melee (presumed that they can all disembark without being in engagement range of cause), then fall back with the serpent and finally fore and fade the reapers back in? or does the fall back hinder that last embark.
I can see how the 2-detachment setup is strong for eldar. I run it all the time myself. but I really have a feeling one should go for a single detachment. we need those cp so badly. for seer council, fire n fade, lightning fast etc, etc. Thats why I feel farseer, farseer, warlock and then wraith seer from the heavy support slot is the best way. do you think the optimization of craftworld traits is more important than the cp-thing?
With this build making it one detachment would mean the melee units would miss out on preroll ones and the shooting units would miss out on masterfull.
Regarding psychic support, you missed one option: Warlock Conclave. They do not have the Character keyword, but have the Warlock Keyword so Seer Council is still an option. And it opens up Concordance of Power.
I put Stones in my Wave Serpent mainly due to Plagueburst Crawlers. 3 of them can do quite a bit of damage and my local opponents know the damage Reapers put out. You are correct if the Wave Serpent is in assault. I tend to avoid that scenario in most games. When that happens, I've typically lost anyways.
I've played it as a single detachment and have not been happy with it; the loss of those two Craftworld traits are significant. I just play with 10 CP instead of 12. Of note, most of my CP usage is on turn 1. Many games, I have just the one per turn that is reserved for Fire and Fade.
Play a few games and see what works for you. I've gotten a good deal of games in with mine and this is where I've ended up. YMMV.
Crafter91 wrote: How do people best use Wraith Guard within a mixed list? (i.e. not a wraith list).
I really enjoy wraithblades but whenever I have played their shooty counterparts, I have never deemed them to be worth their points cost.
They're good at killing what they fire at, but slow movement and short range usually means that they don't get to pick many targets.
I've considered giving them a serpent but i have other units i like to fire and fade - plus it's already an expensive unit without also paying for a transport.
Do people rate them at the moment?
Sadly, I've played them once in the last 6 months or so. I'm at the point of just waiting for a new book.
As it is looking like we are still months away from a new Codex, I'm going to try something a bit different just, well, because it's not something I've tried before. In a larger tourney, I think it would catch some folks off guard, but good players with very efficient armies will still outplay me. In a smaller tourney, Ill be curious as I will play in one next month.
but tell me: are two detachments really the best option here? they both have the same traits.
sell one warlock and one blade, make the spiders into hawks and swop the guardians for 3x5 DA. Then everything would fit into a single battalion and you get more action utility plus better screening.
Would you mind elaborating on your game plan? I'm struggling in my meta currently, had a heavy loss against new Deathwatch (BT turn one, Blood Angels turn two) on Tuesday and looking to change things up.
Tried running a couple of falcons for that game but they're just paper and with DW negating strats like LFR, it wasn't a fun time.
Crafter91 wrote: How do people best use Wraith Guard within a mixed list? (i.e. not a wraith list).
I really enjoy wraithblades but whenever I have played their shooty counterparts, I have never deemed them to be worth their points cost.
They're good at killing what they fire at, but slow movement and short range usually means that they don't get to pick many targets.
I've considered giving them a serpent but i have other units i like to fire and fade - plus it's already an expensive unit without also paying for a transport.
Do people rate them at the moment?
I'm not sure if I "rate" them, as I think they cost too many points, their guns are unreliable, and they can be easy to kill. That being said, I use them all the time because I like the models.
I most often put them in the webway or use Fire and Fade to help them move up a flank and score objectives. A Wave Serpent isn't necessary, as they can move fast enough on their own. They also, typically, want to go further up the field than the Wave Serpent does, which can make things awkward.
Expert Crafters helps them, of course, as they have so few shots. Sometimes they whiff horribly, sometimes they kill a tank in a single volley. Their firepower isn't bad, just unreliable.
I try to keep them in cover and away from stuff that can kill them. ST 5 and lower can really struggle to hurt Wraithguard, and I usually charge them into whatever hapless Troops unit is in front of them just to reduce incoming fire. Then they can fall back and still shoot their next turn.
D-Scythes are not worth it in my experience -- too few shots, too little damage, too many points, and Overwatch is a moot mechanic most of the time. At least wraithcannon can potentially obliterate their target.
wow. this is really something. seems very good. just push objectives and block them with wraiths. then fly around and delete units with the 9man conclave, basically. right?love how you sneaked in 10 guardians with obsec,
Tyranid Horde wrote: Would you mind elaborating on your game plan? I'm struggling in my meta currently, had a heavy loss against new Deathwatch (BT turn one, Blood Angels turn two) on Tuesday and looking to change things up.
Tried running a couple of falcons for that game but they're just paper and with DW negating strats like LFR, it wasn't a fun time.
Secondaries will generally be the same as most of my other games: ROD, Engage on all Fronts, and possibly To the Last.
The list would be a bit more passive. Wraithblades generally sit on two objectives near my side of the board (assume this is a hold one, hold two, hold more mission) with a DA squad backing them up. Hawks, Storm Guardians, and DA achieve ROD, while also contributing to Engage on all Fronts.
The idea is to score 10 points each turn of Primary except for whichever turn I think I can get a 15. Max ROD, get 10-15 from To the Last, and 10 or so from Engage on all Fronts. Primary is still very important. I score well on Secondaries, but have fallen into a trap and over extend my army and risk losing some points on Primary. When I play a bit more reserved, I score better on Primary.
The challenge with Craftworld lists (from my experience) is limiting my opponent's score. However, this list does not give away easy secondary choices. I expect to lose the Warlock Conclave, but if I can have the lasdt model or two survive, I'll happily run them away to not lost To the Last points.
If I can score 80+ points, including paint, I can generally win the game.
omg I got my ass kicked today. have had the longest and weirdest winning streak with craft worlds, but it ended today and it seems im out of tricks. the book simply doesn't hold up in the meta.
As mentioned, I recently peeked out a super tight win vs sisters, but I sort of felt that was it. my local guys got the eldar's number, so to speak.
Today I was crushed by an ork freebooters build inspired by the very succesfull build that is winning tourneys now.
The list is a bizare math beast with so many s5-6-8 shots hitting on +3 and +4 mostly and it is absolutely lethal in melee too. Every thing is flat 2-3 dam and the boss on sgiugadino with cunning de facto has 10-12 flat 3 hits plus flat 3 mortals. It has less alpha strike potential than the tourney winner, but it is more resilient and can back the dakka up on objectives too.
The game
I knew it would be bad, so I was actually glad to get first turn. I wanted to castle completely but because 2 ridiculously cheap forward deployed throw away units of kommandoes would take my important (if I was to at least be able to score 10 semi-reliably in this game) deep right midfield objectives immediately, I had to peek out with a few units. I used a falcon, som DA and psyker support of farseer/warlock on bike to take the objective and kick him off. I buffed and quickened my 9 wraith blades to the center objective. 6 spears stayed back to counter punch. the reapers popped in n out to delete one dakkajet.
His t1
Between the speed wargh rule and the freebooter +1 to hit (and plus 2 and 3 later on to completely hose one of our staples; lightning fast) The second dakkajet just flew through my ranks and smashed my backfield with 36 s6ap1(2 maybe?) shots. it was bonkers. when he told me it costs 120 points I couldn't believe it haha. He killed some stuff back there and then deleted the falcon, one unit of DA, a warlock on bike and almost killed the doom seer too. and honestly, the amount of fire hitting decently with crazy damage profiles was completely overwhelming compared to the last time, I played 9th orks. this build is so amazingly good.
(other units that I have to highlight were the defkoptas with what feels like 2d3 flat 3 krak missiles PLUS 6 s6 ap1 attacks each in melee. Wow. and the gang of 3 warbikes that hit me with a stunning 36 s5ap1 volley hitting on 4s. And the squid catapult shooting indirect hitting on 3s with s8(and 6 I think) flat 2-3 (iirc) and a plus one to wound : )
long story short I retreated, regrouped and fought hard to keep him from scoring grind and abhor the witch while clearing him of objectives to try and rack up points. I had engage, ROD and to the last with spears, wraiths, reapers. pretty good setup normally, but I didn't max any of them and in the end it was something like 48-72.
my biggest take away is that I just can't play those wraiths. they suck up so much focus from my part with all the buffs and in the end they just melt right there on the center objective and do nothing. I rolled subpar for their defense, but it wasn't a crazy whiff. They are just not good enough, Imo. ill give them one more spin, though quicken is key to keep them active, and in this game, my q-warlock died t2.
man, I love eldar, but this was brutal. I know the original build was built to break t3 with sisters and drukhari as main targets. lets just say; counters for those armies are counters for craft worlds too. Putting it mildly.
I've played only one game against the new Orks, but it was when the book was first released and players had not yet gotten the optimal build out yet. I am yet to face this build, though there is one local player who has a version of it he's been playtesting.
The Craftworld book is really close to being completely outdated. As more and more codexes get released and more folks run optimal builds, it really feels like two different games. I had one of this games against Drukhari. Many newer codexes just have more of everything.
For tourneys, I've had reasonable success in one day events (3 rounds). However, two-day events (5 rounds)and I am at the mid tables. I can't score 95-100 points per game and can sneak into playing for top finishes in one day events. Not so much for two day events: skill and army efficiency becomes unavoidable.
I'm hoping we get a new book in the first few months of 2022. I've played nearly 100 games with my Craftworld and am very ready to actually play with a 9th edition Codex.
Had a friendly game yesterday against an imperial guard list. He had a baneblade. 3 leman Russ. 2 chimera. An arty vehicle. And about six squads of infantry and mortar teams.
My army was 3x6 jetbikes. 3x3 support weapons equipped with d cannons. Wave serpent with 12 dire. avengers. 3 war walkers with AML. 2x5 shadow specters.
He got first turn and killed two support weapons and 4 jetbikes. Nothing catastrophic.
My first turn I moved up the support weapons 6” and from behind cover I killed a tank commander, leman Russ, chimera, and brought another chimera down to 1 wound. The d cannons made very short work of them.
I moved jetbikes around to contest objectives. I regretted not deploying my war walkers into the table to do additional damage to his infantry going to objectives and to finish off the severely wounded chimera. I was playing for “bring it down” so killing the vehicles was great.
His next turn he dropped some scions and took an objective from me. His shooting was largely ineffective again because my positioning gave him few options.
Next turn I rushed his objectives with jetbike squads and shot the infantry off. I only equip them with shuriken catapults to keep them cheap but they do the trick with volume of dice.
I move and advance the d cannons to get in range of the baneblade for next turn I deploy my war walkers and shadow specters. War walkers blast his final leman Russ off the table. The shadow specters delete infantry units. His army at this point is almost gone. The scions he deployed are wiped out by jetbikes and wave serpents.
His third turn the baneblade moves ip to try and shoot my units off the objectives. I now have all four. Shooting is extremely bad.
My third turn I have total board control. I kill the bane blade with 5 support cannons despite horrible rolling. It would’ve died no matter what due to the sheer volume of fire I was about to put on it. He concedes the game.
D cannon spam seems to be hard to deal with because of how hard hitting it is and it firing from non line of sight. This is coupled well with jetbikes that are extremely mobile and can shoot infantry off objectives and the other deep strikers that can respond decisively. Would have to play more enemies to see how good it really works.
He had a few squads of scions that deep strikers to contest an objective for one of my turns but they only killed two jetbikes. The next turn my jetbikes scooted over to them and shot them + some fire from some other Shuriken equipped units nearby.
The major thing I would’ve done differently was instead of deep stroking my three war walkers I would have deployed them turn 1 to get more firepower on the table and had a strong single unit to cast forewarned on to punish deep strikers
I think I forgot to mention I took expert crafters and forgot to even take a second custom craftworld trait. With expert crafters your D cannons almost always hit snd wound. With strength 12 there isn’t anything they don’t wound on a 3 already. Once deployed a squad of three d cannons becomes 3 individual units so each of them has one reroll hit snd wound.
I am considering what to use for the second custom trait. I was thinking the -1 AP to Shuriken weapons to boost all my jetbikes for infantry hunting or maybe masters of concealment to give everyone a save boost amd hopefully add more durability to the jetbikes and support weapons.
Anybody gone up against Grey Knights yet? I've played them a handful of times now and HOLY HELL.
They make Eldar Psykers look like caravan fortune tellers.
EVERY unit in their army is a psyker. Smite going off at every turn, Vortex of Doom is like exectutioner on steriods (2x D3 mortal wounds plus 1MW to each unit within 3".
Also might as well mean unlimited denies. Not to mention the amount of 4+ invun saves that the army has.
I managed to beat with with my wolves army by taking abhor the witch which was super easy to score well on, but good lord my Eldar took a pasting against them!
I played them yesterday against a guy who regularly top 3s events.
Got slapped pretty hard and ended up with a 47-94 loss. The amount of denies is way harder to deal with than 1k Sons and their 5+ FNP versus mortals was so good against my smite/executioner seer. Had multiple turns where guide and doom didn't go off, same with jinx and protect.
I have 5 psykers in my army and that did help mitigate them somewhat, but their plusses to deny hurts a lot when the max we realistically can get is +1 on two models.
Feel like it is an unwinnable matchup, but the dreadknight spam is much more beatable compared to terminators, dreads and the heavy weapons lists.
Got an upcoming mini tourney at a local club in a few weeks
Feel like i've got enough experience with Eldar now to give them a whirl in a friendly tournament setting.
It's a small one in a single day, four games each at a mere 650 points per player.
From my experience, small Eldar lists are tough to get right because units are very 'single purpose'
Any thoughts on how to run it?
I'm thinking Spiritseer HQ with a unit of 5 wraithblades to charge the midboard
2 units of 5 dires
5 Warp Spiders
3 reapers
Toying with the idea of either a single support weapon with a D-Cannon to screen my back board and hide or taking a single walker to give me the option of bringing him on from reserves and getting me into table quarters.
Of course feel free to scrap all of the above but i'd be interested to get opinions on how to best put a list of this size together.
Most of my 9th edition games have been at 2000 points. However, with what you described, the War Walker would be a nice fit. Although not knowing table size or experience at that points level, I am unsure how useful putting it in Reserve will be (I do like that ability and use it quite a bit).
Tables are tiny at 44" x 30" so you're right, there may be difficulty with reserves. Incidentally it's why I opted for Warp Spiders in place of Swooping Hawks.
Crafter91 wrote: Tables are tiny at 44" x 30" so you're right, there may be difficulty with reserves. Incidentally it's why I opted for Warp Spiders in place of Swooping Hawks.
Spiders have been a staple in my lists for the past year or so; great use of 90 points.
Entered a local league and got assigned to a division with Guard, Death Guard, Space Wolves, Custodes, Necrons and Grey Knights, which is a good enough mix.
Played my first game against guard, which with their new buffs from tank commanders and 2+ saves on Russes, was a tough enough matchup, especially as I didn't get turn 1 and was less than ideal, as manticores with rerolls on their shot output was devastating. Managed to hold out with some decent play in denying primaries, the mission was the scouring, so denying hold 2 and hold 3 was tough but manageable, and being able to have enough minis leftover let me swing 15 points for primaries in the final turn, leaving me with a 67-66 win. Closer than I'd like, as I made some misplays early on. I found engage on all fronts was a very difficult secondary against Guard to maximise, their speed with chimeras (infantry squads inside) and valks (melta vets inside) caused a lot of issues, needing to focus fire on them, which allowed his tank commanders free reign to do what they liked. Either way, despite the low scoring result and the close win, I'm pleased with my play and against armies with less alpha strike potential, I feel I can do quite well against the armies in the league.
Some notes from the game: The wraithseer was a good distraction, it didn't do much but soaked up enough firepower and did threaten chimeras to contest the midboard and forced my opponent to disembark his troops. The shining spears taken as a 3-man unit served me well, it soaked some fire that would have gone elsewhere as well as mince any squads left in the open. Gave me engage points and denied my opponent primaries in the turns he didn't unload his infantry squads. The wraithblades were largely uncontested when fully buffed with protect and fortune, and netted me the last ROD tick so I could max that secondary. The Dark Reapers did work as usual, murdering their way through armour, buffed and unbuffed. I was quite impressed with the Falcon, I didn't expect much from it but the extra armour provides target saturation, protection for the farseer and conclave T1 and offers just a little bit extra damage output and speed. I did consider putting the falcon in the patrol to help the DA squads, but ignoring cover was quite powerful in the long run.
My list is spoilered, but if you're interested, feedback is helpful!
Second league game finished with a win against Custodes, 84-72 ending with tabling my opponent on T5, robbing him of a chance to get any primaries as he went second.
He had a scions detachment which got him 8 points for ROD, but I screened well with my units in the final quarter of the board to deny him deepstriking them from 5" away. He did have 4 melta vets do 25 damage to my Wave Serpent containing Dark Reapers, thanks to exploding 6s.
Wraithblades again were excellent when fully buffed, and tied up a Telemon from T2 onwards, taking very little damage in return once the dread was bracketed.
Something discussed before was the executioner seer, and it worked really well in this game. It did a lot of work whittling squads down even with 6+++ to ignore mortals.
Friendly no longer tournament competitive player here. (life's focusses are too busy but I still get enough games in in a year to play)
I have an Eldar army I bought off a friend in highschool decades ago for $20 and painted it a couple years ago. I have added a little to it to bring it up to not strictly lead infantry. My aim here is to find a focus/list idea to be able to play it and have fun and not worry about being super competitive but be able to hold my own and not get wiped out too fast. It is nearly all 1991 era Jes Goodwin sculpts (hence the decades old and why it was $20) and all painted and I really love these models. I painted them fairly well for a table top (granted today that standard is a lot higher than 18 years ago when I got back into the game).
So I'm hoping for some list ideas and secondaries (I'm mainly a fairly good AoS player and we have secondaries now but different... same but different,.. I guess) I don't have the rulebook but friends let me peak at it so I know there "are" secondaries, and can refresh them in my memoruy and I've played long enough. the other issue is I'm a dad, mortgage, most the people I play are causal competitive (want to win, not playing net-lists, etc). So I'm not really able to run out and buy a lot like units of shining spears or a bike-seer council, or whatever.
I do understand Craftworld is deny primaries and earn secondaries and this Christmas break I'm hoping to get a few 40k games in. I own the codex and Phoenix rising just not the 9th ed BRB.
Here is what I own:
FW Avatar
A couple infantry Farseers
At least 4 infantry Warlocks
All the old Phoenix Lords
Prince Yriel
Eldrad
a couple spirit seers
a couple autarchs
20 Guardians,
10 Dire Avengers
20 Howling Banshees
10 Swooping Hawks
10 Fire Dragons
10 scorpions
10 Warpspiders
6 Dark Reapers
10 Rangers
Falcon (this can be proxied to a WS)
2 Wave Serpents
Wraithfighter
3 War Walkers (weapon options aren't an issue, we aren't that WYSIWYG)
3 Wraithlords
Wraithknight
I have the ability to take one D-cannon support and put a Psyker on top (little confersion) for a Jet-seer if that's a necessary requirement to play.
I also have about 20 Harlequin troupe, and multiples of their infantry characters if a detachment of them really goes a long way (no bikes though,..)
And I have the triumvirate of Ynead.
In past editions I would tend to put some banshees in a WS for counter charge, some DAs in another, Fire Dragons in the falcon (or proxied WS) then deep strike stuff in and around to focus fire enemy to wipe one out one at at time. Having only played one game of 40k (in the summer with the new Ork dex) I'm not certain this tactic would hold up. Perhaps it would?
You have lots of figures and vehicles to make various style of Eldar armies. Only figures that you lack (other than what you mention about Shining Spears and Seers on bikes) is Wraithguard who are one unit that can hold an objective for more than a turn.
There is loads of advice on this thread about which units are most effective and which ones are sadly lacking. If your group is more casual than competitive, you have all you need to play.
I would start with lots of Combat Patrol games to try out your units with a Warlock or Spirit Seer and see how they play...and how to seize objectives from your opponent by concentrating on eliminating every enemy near one. Eldar are not an army that can swamp the field and contest them all...you have to preserve what you have on the field or the game ends early.
I am looking to start Eldar/Craftworld so trying to skim/read through this.
However! How affective is like a primarily Wraith army?
Wraithguard, wraithblades, wraithlords, wrathknights and Spiritseers? Probably some Waveserpents to transport and Farseers.
Also are Dark Reapers good? I haven't played Eldar since 3rd edition and played Biel-Tan back then. Which all the Aspect Warriors were troupe choice. Same with those FW Shadow Spectre Aspect warriors and an Avatar? I'm really tempted to buy those from FW. They look really cool.
I don't have any models atm. Just going to start slowly buying/working on them.
Wraithblades- excellent.
Wraithlords - Personally not a fan, but others are
Wraithseers - Brilliant but on the expensive side
Spiritseers - meh but semi-essential in wraith lists
Wraithknights - I'm yet to play one (not a fan of enormous 'miniatures'.
Dark Reapers are excellent. Unmodifiable 3s to hit with flat 3 damage is just too good to leave out.
Wave Serpents are a bit of a staple in CW lists but they're good for the kind of list you're questioning because you can sit 5 Wraithblades and a Spiritseer inside one quite nicely.
Avatar currently sucks for his points cost but i'm expecting him to be a monster in the next codex.
You have lots of figures and vehicles to make various style of Eldar armies. Only figures that you lack (other than what you mention about Shining Spears and Seers on bikes) is Wraithguard who are one unit that can hold an objective for more than a turn.
There is loads of advice on this thread about which units are most effective and which ones are sadly lacking. If your group is more casual than competitive, you have all you need to play.
I would start with lots of Combat Patrol games to try out your units with a Warlock or Spirit Seer and see how they play...and how to seize objectives from your opponent by concentrating on eliminating every enemy near one. Eldar are not an army that can swamp the field and contest them all...you have to preserve what you have on the field or the game ends early.
Good luck.
Hmm thanks. That's a good idea for a start. I understand it was a grand sweeping question too haha. "hey internet/dakka dakka, vague question, solve my problems" You said lot in a succinct clear manner and kind thanks for that.
I will look up some Youtube videos on getting started with Combat Patrol.
I have another question. There was a way for a psyker to give a Wraithknight a 4++ inv. I cannot find that in the codex or Phoenix Rising. Am I blind or is it somewhere else?
It was in one of the Vigilus books, which is not valid in GT matched play games as specialist detachments are banned. For normal matched, open etc. you can use it but most games I've played default to the GT missions.
Had my third league game, against Necrons this time and it was a game of dice unfortunately, with my opponent rolling insanely hot on reanimation protocols (and in general) and my own rolls being generally quite poor with the exception of psychic powers.
I failed a 6" turn 1 charge that I spent a CP to reroll which meant I was unable to kill Lokhust Destroyers. I made a few mistakes as well, but my army was penned in from the get go due to the 6" pregame move and veil of darkness putting 20 warriors in my face turn 1. I didn't have the units to throwaway for screening purposes so it was a hard game not going first.
44-89 loss for me but reckon it would be closer in future games.
Rogzor87 wrote: I managed to find a decent deal on a Craftworld Vanguard Detachment so my first step towards eldar is happening!
Does a Vanguard detachment/battalion work or the more standard one is needed?
That’s the 15 wraithguard, 2 wraithlord, spiritseer box?
That’s a core of an army, and could be played straight up. If you love wraith units and wanted to theme the army around them, there are worse places to start. It’s going to be a block of wraithbone you can park in the middle of the table and own it.
A Start Collecting box is 5 wraithguard, 1 wraith lord, a war walker, and a farseer. If you double that up you get a more well balanced force. Swapping 5 WG for 2xWalkers and an extra character (who you could convert into a spirit seer if you are handy with a knife). This gives you more firepower and some units that move faster than molasses.
Either option is going to need more units added to bring it up to a full army. Probably some fast units to grab objectives and score secondaries. I don’t think there is a wrong answer here. With the exception of having more wraith lords then is sensible, no reason not to get one of each if that’s what floats your boat. And who knows, maybe WLs will be the new hotness in the next codex and you can get a head start on the next power build. Or they could be trash. Thus flows the fate of the Eldar codexes...
That’s the 15 wraithguard, 2 wraithlord, spiritseer box?
Yeah it's that box. My next purchase I planned for is a Farseer on skyrunner and Dire Avengers once I get this stuff assembled/worked on.
Heh, sorry if I came across as salty. I’m actually looking forward to a new codex, which rumor has should be in the not to distant future. But we’ve always been plagued with sketchy internal balance, and GW adjusts things with wild pendulum swings. So it makes it really hard to give advice. What’s true today might not be tomorrow. Which is why I normally say go with your heart. Rules come and go, but cool models endure. Core your army around things you love, and shore it up with what you need to make it work.
Farseers on bikes (and wave serpents) tend to do well regardless of edition. Seers are iconic to the faction, and the mobility of the bike helps get them where they need to be. Dire avengers are also not a bad call. Troops are a good thing.
Up against Death Guard this evening, pretty standard 3x PBCs, Deathshroud, blig blob of terminators. Not expecting to do overly well but the speed advantage should make for a close game.
Death Guard was opponent dependent for me. There was one player I could never beat. The game was always high scoring for both of us, but he tended to score slightly better on secondaries. Best of luck.
Are the swords on wraithlords worth the points? I think it's +2str, 1 higher AP than the wraithlords basic fist but that d6dmg makes me worry. When the fist just does straight 3 dmg.
Flat 3 damage is something I prefer over a d6, even if it it statistically a little worse (d6 should average 3.5)
The +2S is an interesting breakpoint for something that starts at S7. You wound T4, T7, and T8 easier. There are a LOT of things that live at those toughnesses. The extra AP is a cherry on top. IMHO going from -3 to -4 is not all that. You are already going to cap anything with an invuln. If you are going after things with a 2+ and no invuln, it would be worth it. Technically also things with a 3+, but once someone is fishing for 6’s, you are generally OK.
If I was charging a WL toward the enemy lines looking to carve open tanks, I might spring for the 10 points. But the fists can do solid work on their own, so if another part of my list needed those point more, I think you could skip the sword.
Sarigar wrote: Death Guard was opponent dependent for me. There was one player I could never beat. The game was always high scoring for both of us, but he tended to score slightly better on secondaries. Best of luck.
Do feel like it was the case here, this opponent I'd never played before but losing frequently to my usual DG opponent, I was able to figure out the game plan. In saying that, my list has been tweaked to where I am happy with it in its current state and I knew what to expect from my list. I won, winning 76-73 points. I had some misfortune of whittling two PBCs to 5 and 1 wound respectively and couldn't finish them off through poor rolling, losing 5 points on his TTL secondary. While that was the case, it eliminated a huge portion of his shooting, so I was happy being able to take wounds on vehicles against tanks hitting on 5s most of the time with LFR or Vectored Engines. The mission was Overrun, and I was able to screen effectively against his deathshroud thus denying him chances to reduce my primary scoring.
I'm very happy with the number of psykers in the list now, being able to dish out mortal wounds against terminators was a huge difference from the last time I played. Combinations of Dark Reapers, Smites and Executioner definitely made life easier and I'd recommend others give smite spam a try in the age of really tough multi-wound blobs.
It looks as though this thread will soon need to be updated. The new box set offers options not available in the Codex, so I imagine the rumored new Codex will soon follow.
I'm very happy to be getting the options back for Autarchs!
Due to moving and getting settled into a new house, I've not had the chance to play much of late.
A few months back, I began utilizing 2 x Farseers; one with Guide/Fortune, the other (Skyrunner) with Smite/Executioner/Doom. This model tended to push a bit more forward in order to provide Mortal Wound support. Very useful.
I finally got to play again last Sunday with a take all comers style list and did play against Custodes. The list is pretty much the same core that I've run for the past nine months. I'm still finding great utiliity using Dark Reapers and a Lynx as the core fire support elements. Due to Fire and Fade (and a Wave Serpent), the Reapers took zero casualties and only lost a few wounds from the Lynx. My opponent had not played my Craftworld before and was quite surprised by the Wraithblades. It is one of those units on paper seem to be ok, but when buffed they became quite challenging for him to manage. They got to the center objective to contest and earned me 7 Assassinate points and controlled the objective for 2 turns netting another 10 points. Finally, they acted as one of my 'To The Last' units earning another 5 points.
I finally picked up a second Lynx, but unsure if I will run as 2 x Lynx and 1 x 10 Reapers or drop the Reapers entirely. Or, go 3 x 3 Reapers with each Exarch armed with a Tempest Launcher and Rain of Death. A bit high on points, but I may build a Spearhead with Expert Crafters/Masterful Shots around this and see how it fares.
With all that said, I'm really looking forward to a new Codex. I kept notes for every 9th edition game and I'm nearing 100 games now with this army and am ready to build/paint new units and learn to strategies with Craftworlds.
It was interesting reading some reactions regarding the new Hammerhead Railgun. If a Telemon dreadnought did not have -1 damage, I nearly one shotted it with a single Lynx with Jinx cast on it. The Lynx Pulsar on its own appears solid, but opponents tend to not factor in things that improve its efficiency (Expert Crafters, Doom, Guide, Runes of Witnessing, Autarch, etc...)
Automatically Appended Next Post: Reviewing my 9th edition games as the year comes to a close and (hopefully) will see a new codex in a few months has been interesting. I started the edition trying out multiple army builds and ended up going 20-16. I ran combinations of mechanized lists and Harlequins/Craftworlds and it was fairly mixed.
In March 2021, I began running 1 to 2 large Wraithblade units which saw me getting more wins as I could contest/hold objectives earning me higher Primary objective points. I also reduced the number of vehicles; combined with the 2021 GT Mission secondary change, it created some more challenges for opponents to score secondaries. I moved in the fall of 2021 and began playing in a new meta and played fewer games, well, because I moved, haha.
I did not find any single army to be my issue. Rather, I found certain opponents really challenging.
Prior to Moving: 38-20. Of those games, one of my regular opponents consistently beat me and I had a 4-10 record against him. When I remove him, I went 34-10. He played Death Guard and Ultra Marines primarily. To be honest, I only beat him once with his Death Guard, but had won against Death Guard when facing other opponents.
Post Move. 6-7. This one is interesting as there are two locations where I've gamed. I've played in two local tourneys so far and went 2-1, earning me third, and 1-2. There are two local players whom I'd rate as very good and am 0-3 against out of those 13 games.
Pre Wraithblades: 20-16
Post Wraithblades: 44-27
For myself, the Wraithblades were a game changer. I did not have much luck running Harlequins/Craftworlds, but others have. I suppose it just did not fit my playstyle. In fact, my second game after I relocated was against Harlequins/Craftworld and was absolutely hammered.
For 2021, what were your 'aha' moments with Craftworlds that really improved your games?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Crafter91 wrote: Got what will probably be my last 2k game with 8th edition Eldar in a couple of weeks time.
Playing against Tyranids which I have never faced in 9th edition.
What tips you got for me and what should I look out for?
Cheers all!
I've not faced the new Tyranid monster build that just came out via WD.
However, I recommend reading up on the FW options for the Tyranids. There are two options that can really change an army: one is a flying LoW that is really difficult to ignore, but also very difficult to take down. The other is the Dymacharon(sp?). Hits hard in assault and fairly durable. It also has the ability to get additional movement, so turn 1 assaults do occur. If I recall correctly, the model can effectively move over infantry, so screening can be a challenge.
Tyranids can hinder your psychic abilities via Shadows of the Warp. Ask about it and double check ranges and, if viable, keep your psykers out of its range as Craftworld psychic phase is extremely important.
The Strands of Fate rule that appears to be confirmed looks extremely powerful. In a 2000 point army, that is 4 dice per round that will be a guaranteed 6. It is a random phase, but outside of Morale, a pocket 6 is clutch in every other phase. Could make some rolling of dice a bit more time consuming; individually rolling dice until you need the '6', as opposed to batch rolling rolling dice.
Sarigar wrote: Could make some rolling of dice a bit more time consuming; individually rolling dice until you need the '6', as opposed to batch rolling rolling dice.
From what I've seen, you 'set' the result of a roll to a 6 before any rolls, so it shouldn't change anything. If you have 20 shots, and want to use one of the dice, you just take a 6 and roll 19 shots.
Sarigar wrote: Could make some rolling of dice a bit more time consuming; individually rolling dice until you need the '6', as opposed to batch rolling rolling dice.
From what I've seen, you 'set' the result of a roll to a 6 before any rolls, so it shouldn't change anything. If you have 20 shots, and want to use one of the dice, you just take a 6 and roll 19 shots.[/quote
Well provided you pick the 6 first and not try to fast roll 19 and then decide whether to use the 6 gaining info you wouldn't have which in turn could result in opponent opt to enforce slow rolling(ie 1 attack, to hit, to wound, save damage, repeat) to remove your advantage.
Sarigar wrote: Could make some rolling of dice a bit more time consuming; individually rolling dice until you need the '6', as opposed to batch rolling rolling dice.
From what I've seen, you 'set' the result of a roll to a 6 before any rolls, so it shouldn't change anything. If you have 20 shots, and want to use one of the dice, you just take a 6 and roll 19 shots.
I'm curious to see how competitive CW builds will look like.
CW troops and some Aspects are rather squishy with T3 and lower armor saves and so may have a hard time to hold objectives and survive long enough outside of transports.
Iyanden could be a decent build. Here we have a battle box which offers a decent start.
wuestenfux wrote: I'm curious to see how competitive CW builds will look like.
CW troops and some Aspects are rather squishy with T3 and lower armor saves and so may have a hard time to hold objectives and survive long enough outside of transports.
Iyanden could be a decent build. Here we have a battle box which offers a decent start.
Phoenix Lords are going up in Toughness and I believe one of the leaks mentioned that Aspects are getting an Invul save so that should help a bit when it comes to holding an objective.
I took the below list to a local event (14 players) and the first tourney of 2022. This location runs 2.5 hour rounds which is a half hour less than I'm accustomed do. As a result, my first game against Custodes only went 4 turns. I did get to finish games 2 (monster mash Tyranids) and 3 (Orks) on time, but I definitely made a few mistakes hurrying through my turns.
Overall, I was pretty happy with the list, although, the Shining Spears did very little in each game. I think I just don't use them very well. I can definitely see a Wraithlord replacing them in near future.
Again, Reapers with Fire and Fade into a Wave Serpent just punished my opponents. I will shed a tear if that goes away when we get an updated Codex. Spectres did reasonable and the Wraithblades did great work in every game and only lost the entire unit on game 3 on the bottom of turn 5. This unit has also done so much work over the past 50 or so games. Even if Protect gets nerfed, a unit with a 4++, -1damage, and potential 5+++ from Fortune will be really good. Definitely looking forward to seeing how they turn out.
At the end of the day, I ended up placing 4th.
Game 1 vs Custodes: Win 63-58
Game 2 vs Tyranids (new Monster rules): Tie 73-73 (I think this was only the second tie in @ 100 games)
Game 3 vs Orks: Win 91-60 (I had so much S8 shooting and got first turn, it countered Ramshackle significantly creating a pretty lopsided game early).
Well done!
The list has some diversity to battle the enemy at all threat ranges.
The unit of Wraithblades was large enough to have an impact,
while unit of Shining Spears was very small and in this form can only be used for harassing.
Crafter91 wrote: Got what will probably be my last 2k game with 8th edition Eldar in a couple of weeks time.
Playing against Tyranids which I have never faced in 9th edition.
What tips you got for me and what should I look out for?
Cheers all!
Well I'm pleased to say that the Craftworld pulled home the big win!
My opponent played a pure monster build with a barbed and a scythed heirodule, a Dimachaeron a hive tyrant, Old One Eye, a Mawloc and 6 carnifexes.
The combination of the armywide 5++ and -1 damage made them very difficult to take down - especially with the amount of D3 and D6 damage we're currently having to use.
My biggest advantage was the use of a large table size. Because of his low model count and Eldar movement being what it is, I was able to maintain good board control.
MVPs were Fire Dragons and Wraithguard which flew around in a Falcon / Wave Serpent and carried out their jobs pretty much perfectly.
Final scores were Eldar 73 to Tyranids 64 so still a very close game and very enjoyable too.
I think, had he given his carnifexes some ranged weapons rather than running an (almost) entirely combat based army, it would have been a much more difficult game to win.
Congrats! Playing against the new Tyranids and learned a lot. I definitely feel better equipped if I face it again.
I think taking 'Behind Enemy Lines' will be a solid option as opposed to Engage on All Fronts. The Tyranids race forward, then drop in units that can get into the enemy deployment zone.
Got to play against the new GSC. The Rock Grinder and ability to Deny the Witch eveno outside of 24" were the big standouts for me. They have lots of movement and go back into reserve abilities making ROD and Engage on all Fronts high scoring secondaries.
Their downside for them was Take No Prisoners (I earned 13 points). Dark Reapers are purpose built to tackle large Jackal units. My opponent had 3 x 10 Jackal units and the 10 strong Reaper unit destroyed two of them.
I still really struggle taking Spectres in an army where I have Reapers as they both really need Fire and Fade. However, I did run 1x10 Reapers and 2x3 Reapers (Exarch with Tempest Launcher) which did work quite well.
I failed to get Fortune and Protect on my Wraithblades for turns 1,2, and 3 which was a bit painful. They finally went down on the bottom of turn 4. My opponent locked the last one into assault with a unit with Rock Grinders, and if I didn't have the ability to spam MW, the momentum could have really swung; definitely sold me on my psychic support.
At the end, I won 82-81. Super fun game but I think another win will be especially difficult as the Dark Reapers will become priority target in the future.
There is no hard rule regarding this outside some events. Recommend checking with organizers prior to attending.
I use my Craftworld army in multiple tourney formats in which some formats indicate to use most current sized base for a model. Therefore, I ordered 28.5 mm base adapters to connect to my 25 mm bases.
The new GT missions pack just made my army illegal to run in tourneys (and pretty much every pick up game I play). Hoping we get the new Codex sometime in February.
Sarigar wrote: The new GT missions pack just made my army illegal to run in tourneys (and pretty much every pick up game I play). Hoping we get the new Codex sometime in February.
Sarigar wrote: The new GT missions pack just made my army illegal to run in tourneys (and pretty much every pick up game I play). Hoping we get the new Codex sometime in February.
Sarigar wrote: I can no longer play two Custom Craftworld detachments in a single army.
That's been quite a hit for my army too. It does take away some of the inconsistencies in my list like not being able to transport my Dire Avengers in other transports but losing Hunters of Ancient Relics on my close combat units hurts and in the short term waiting for a codex will be harder to get wins. Shame to see my current list go, as I doubt the power of an army without the mixed detachments will be higher than it.
Did play what is likely to be my last Craftworlds game with the old rules. A 77-62 win against Ultramarines, Guilliman, two warsuits, three redemptor dreads and character support with intercessors. It was close and the warsuits were very annoying to deal with, as were the dreads gettings rerolls with Guilliman and a techmarine boosting one of them when in range. The low model count was a bonus though and keeping out of charge range was easy enough to do.
Ultramarines has been a tough matchup for me as the armies I faced all had Guilleman and all the rerolls and hard hitting assault made for very challenging times for midboard control.
I've got another tourney in a couple weeks. I'm looking a replacing my close combat styled Craftworld Detachment with a Harlequin Detachment. I'll keep the shooting styled Craftworld detachment.
I've read the new GT Missions and Secondaries. I think they will have a bigger impact to my army designs than I expect. I'll definitely get a few games in this weekend to get a feel for them.
I think playing against the list where the centre board plays a big part of the game would have made it a lot more difficult for me to win. Battle Lines luckily meant I could pivot away from combat chances that weren't on my terms and his warsuits forced me to disembark my Wraithblades early on to get rid of them. That being said, it was still tough to force my way up the board and I didn't max out Engage every turn.
I'd be keen to hear your thoughts about your army design, I'll be playing next week so I'm keen to see what I need to change. Definitely going the shooting variant too. Warp Spiders will likely need to be a squad of 6 as I don't want the chance of failing RND, if I even take that secondary now.
***Just realized this list actually fits in a single Battalion. I'll adjust and start with 12 CP**
Not overly happy with it, but I'll give this a try this weekend to prepare for a monthly tourney. Warding Runes is a bit 'meh', but it gives something to every model at least.
Increased both Swooping Hawks and Warp Spiders by one model each to reflect change to Retrieve Octarius Data.
The list is susceptible to new Take No Prisoners (113 wounds = 13 max points)
Points are 2000 points exactly as Battlescribe does not reflect point drops for Dragons, Wraithblades, and Wraithguard.
Nice. I've played Warding Runes a few times now and in 9th it seems to save my ass so many times.
I played against Grey Knights the other day (and won I might add!!!?) and the ability to shrug a third of their smite spam really took the sting out of their tail.
I played three games this weekend using the new missions; 31 (uggh), 32, and 12. Faced Black Templars, Crusher Stampede, and Craftworld/Harlequins.
I'll start off by stating I did not like running a single Battalion. The Craftworld traits are extremely important. I see why some folks don't like Wraithblades with Axe and Shield if they don't have things like Hunters of Ancient Relics and Wrath of the Dead.
Each mission's Primary has two elements to score points. Understanding how to build scoring the extra points will be key. All three of my games saw lower scores, regardless of win/lose.
Of note, my final game was a Craftworld vs Craftworld and we wanted to try out a few of the leaked rules.
Strands of Fate: very cool, important, and there is nuance with this. Also, a lot of fun.
Triple Wraithknights. I ran it based on the leaked data sheet. I am not saying they are great, but completely overwhelmed my opponent. I didn't expect it as they have been so bad since 8th edition. But, I'm going to try them out again. -1 damage and a 5++ or 4++... I am very intrigued and excited to get ahold of the new codex.
General question- with the new Avatar coming out, how long will the current Avatar model be allowed to be used in organized events? In casual play? What do you do with a model that is no longer legal in any format save house rules?
Leo_the_Rat wrote: General question- with the new Avatar coming out, how long will the current Avatar model be allowed to be used in organized events? In casual play? What do you do with a model that is no longer legal in any format save house rules?
Guess that either model will be playable in an event as long as the old model doesn’t move to Legend eventually with different rules.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: General question- with the new Avatar coming out, how long will the current Avatar model be allowed to be used in organized events? In casual play? What do you do with a model that is no longer legal in any format save house rules?
Probably for as long as you would like. Smaller base would mean less board control/auras is about the only detriment.
Recommend checking with the organizer of the event. The size of the actual model and size of its base will be substantially different (I'm assuming you are referring to the Avatar released in 2nd edition). The 9th edition Avatar has more wounds and can be more easily targeted; the smaller model can make a difference when trying to remain out of LOS. Movement through areas of the board can be less impactful using a smaller base. The detriment will be auras, as previously mentioned.
I was more interested in what to do in say an FLGS. It seems wrong to use the old model with new rules but it also seems wrong to play the old model with the old rules. I know I could just ask my opponent what he/she would prefer but I was just wondering, in general, how people feel about the issue.
I was more interested in what to do in say an FLGS. It seems wrong to use the old model with new rules but it also seems wrong to play the old model with the old rules. I know I could just ask my opponent what he/she would prefer but I was just wondering, in general, how people feel about the issue.
For casual play I’d play the new rules, but acknowledge the size issues.
I’d play with auras bases on small model size. This is a handicap for me.
Anything that’s vaguely a LoS question, they can see it. If I thought the new model could be spotted, I’d let them take their shots.
How many guys you want to pile in? You could fit more around the new guy, so count them as base-to-base.
Generally If I’m using a counts-as (which is basically what is happening here) I take the worst case for myself, and the best case for my opponent.
Alternatively, once we get the new base size and dimensions, you could just stick the old guy on a new base temporarily and note how high he should be for LoS checks.
I was more interested in what to do in say an FLGS. It seems wrong to use the old model with new rules but it also seems wrong to play the old model with the old rules. I know I could just ask my opponent what he/she would prefer but I was just wondering, in general, how people feel about the issue.
Just no... Now that he loses the look out sir rule, the smaller size gives him a huge advantage.
I've got a Forge World Avatar and if the size comparisons are correct, I think people might get away with using that one (hard to say without properly putting the two next to one another) but the older metal/resin one is just too small now unless you're willing to put it on a bigger base and estimate what the true height and size it should be for line of sight - in which case, what would be the point?
I get that people might still want to field a beloved miniature that they've spent hours painting, so if the above conditions were agreed between me and a player, I would never say it's not allowed, but I personally wouldn't be one to bother asking. It'd be like proxying a Vyper for a Crimson Hunter.
Just no... Now that he loses the look out sir rule, the smaller size gives him a huge advantage.
I've got a Forge World Avatar and if the size comparisons are correct, I think people might get away with using that one (hard to say without properly putting the two next to one another) but the older metal/resin one is just too small now unless you're willing to put it on a bigger base and estimate what the true height and size it should be for line of sight - in which case, what would be the point?
I get that people might still want to field a beloved miniature that they've spent hours painting, so if the above conditions were agreed between me and a player, I would never say it's not allowed, but I personally wouldn't be one to bother asking. It'd be like proxying a Vyper for a Crimson Hunter.
I do like the new Avatar model, quite a lot, however, I don't know that I'm willing to spend 140 USD on something that "Should" be good. I get your point about LOS issues and base sizes, but I think I'm going to wait for the model to release so we can know the actual height, then build up a scenic base with the old Metal model on top to get the size needed to be fair about it. It's what I had to do with my Lords of Change and Kairos... I spent WAY too much time painting those....
Triple Wraithknights. I ran it based on the leaked data sheet. I am not saying they are great, but completely overwhelmed my opponent. I didn't expect it as they have been so bad since 8th edition. But, I'm going to try them out again. -1 damage and a 5++ or 4++... I am very intrigued and excited to get ahold of the new codex.
Hey, what configuration of Wraithknights did you run? And how did the rest of the army look like?
Triple Wraithknights. I ran it based on the leaked data sheet. I am not saying they are great, but completely overwhelmed my opponent. I didn't expect it as they have been so bad since 8th edition. But, I'm going to try them out again. -1 damage and a 5++ or 4++... I am very intrigued and excited to get ahold of the new codex.
Hey, what configuration of Wraithknights did you run? And how did the rest of the army look like?
Bye,
Stoni
Off the top of my head:
I ran one of each type: Sword/Shield, Suncannon/Shield, 2 x Heavy Wraithcannons. This was one detachment, costing 6 CP.
Next was a Patrol:
Farseer, Autarch, 1 x 5 Rangers, 2 x 8 Storm Guardians, 1 x 6 Warp Spiders, 1 x 10 Wraithguard with D-Scythes
I believe the army had Wrath of the Dead and Expert Crafters.
Gave the new missions a whirl on Tuesday, figured I'd get to grips with the missions and see what might work in the new codex and came up with this list below.
Faced World Eaters so it wasn't exactly a meta list I was up against, and 1W Chaos Marines aren't much of a metric to work off but has some good success with a sticky blob of buffed Wraithblades holding out against a bunch of possessed and a lord for a couple of turns, allowing me to whittle other parts of his army down as it moved up the board. Using units of 6 was of great help in getting RND, ensuring Engage and contesting points where it mattered.
Reduced points on the Fire Dragons meant that five of them in a Falcon wasn't a terrible investment and made their points back easily, killing a venomcrawler and plinking wounds off marines and the rhinos.
Quickening the Wraithblades was helpful as they started on the board, my opponent had one skorpius whirlwind which wasn't much of an issue the whole game even with Kharn attached giving rerolls.
+ Configuration +
Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)
I like the list! It has a varied number of tools and bumping some units up to six matters quite a bit. RND is still a solid choice, but I think it requires one more mobile unit than I''m accustomed to; your list has Hawks and Spiders which is a solid option.
I've not tried the Falcon/Dragon combination yet. Definitely seems worthwhile for just over 200 points. May try it out on a Friday evening game. Thanks for sharing.
Tyranid Horde wrote: Gave the new missions a whirl on Tuesday, figured I'd get to grips with the missions and see what might work in the new codex and came up with this list below.
Faced World Eaters so it wasn't exactly a meta list I was up against, and 1W Chaos Marines aren't much of a metric to work off but has some good success with a sticky blob of buffed Wraithblades holding out against a bunch of possessed and a lord for a couple of turns, allowing me to whittle other parts of his army down as it moved up the board. Using units of 6 was of great help in getting RND, ensuring Engage and contesting points where it mattered.
Reduced points on the Fire Dragons meant that five of them in a Falcon wasn't a terrible investment and made their points back easily, killing a venomcrawler and plinking wounds off marines and the rhinos.
Quickening the Wraithblades was helpful as they started on the board, my opponent had one skorpius whirlwind which wasn't much of an issue the whole game even with Kharn attached giving rerolls.
+ Configuration +
Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)
The points are correct for the list, only points changes here are the Dragons and Blades, which saved me like 20 points overall. Serpents, Reapers and Falcons didn't change according to my manual.
Tyranid Horde wrote: The points are correct for the list, only points changes here are the Dragons and Blades, which saved me like 20 points overall. Serpents, Reapers and Falcons didn't change according to my manual.
My mistake, just checked. Where on Earth did i read that they were going down I wonder!
I'll need to look at my list and see what's actually saved me the points
Does anyone have thoughts on new Autarch builds? I never got around to finishing my winged version, which to my surprise allows me to add some interesting options that come from the new kit. I know I want to do a warp generator on the new version because "rule of cool." What weapons should each of them get?
A lot really depends on actually reading the codex. I like the idea of Warp Jump Generator, Dragon Fusion Gun, Banshee Mask, and Starglaive. However, points will be a significant factor in how I finalize it.
mokoshkana wrote: Does anyone have thoughts on new Autarch builds? I never got around to finishing my winged version, which to my surprise allows me to add some interesting options that come from the new kit. I know I want to do a warp generator on the new version because "rule of cool." What weapons should each of them get?
Depends on what role you it to fulfil i suppose. Will still be plenty of people that want a cheap HQ slot to sit at the back and give units like support platforms or Fire Prisms (any news on them?) the reroll 1s aura.
The jump pack i think is a nice inclusion to get him out of hotspots if the occasion calls for it. Thing is, with a 3/4++ he'll almost always be rolling on his invun, and will fold pretty quickly.
I would guess reaper launcher with jump generator will be the most popular loadout.
No real thoughts on the Autarch yet, I picked up the model but WJG seems like a great option if it is the same as the Warp Spider leaks. I was thinking fusion gun for extra damage or just going for the death spinner and taking on light/heavy infantry.
Got another game in with the previous list I posted (one page ago) and played against a Kataphron and Robot heavy Ad Mech list with character support. I got turn one, which was crucial I feel as it allowed me to play the board more and avoid getting targeted by the nasty weapons everything his army had. His army was slow though, and I capitalised on that, netting early primaries and getting 2-3 points for the Data Terminals primary every turn.
Very enjoyable game which ended in an 82-69 win for Craftworlds, a surprise given the amount of stuff to keep track of with the Ad Mech codex, turning off rerolls, modifiers, etc. but I'll take it! Probably would have scored more had I not taken assassinate, which only scored me 3 points, and focusing more on To The Last would have helped too, but ignoring Dark Reapers' AP2 was hard!
The changes to the webway portal are interesting. I was a big fan of reserve lists in the past, and this might give us a way to sort of do them again. Plus, it gives us a way to pounce on objectives without enduring enemy fire or paying for expensive transports. Avengers no longer being troops might not sting so much if I can just drop a million guardians right on top of contested objectives. Seems like a good avatar delivery system too.
I like how the Webway Portal is written and appears fairly flexible with how it interacts in GT Missions. I do like how it can be utilized for any unit in Strategic Reserves, but does not force you to use the Webway Portal to come in from Strategic Reserve.
wow, thats brutal. didn't know that. If warlocks are free slots now thats an IMMENSE boost for our faction. I can't even get my head around how huge that is.
so all our advance n shoot with those sweet new shurikens is going to hit on 4s? booh. im not sure id prefer the new silly run shoot run that only works half of the time if theres terrain involved, and is super dicey even with out it, over having the old battle focus rule.
Scoundrel80 wrote: so all our advance n shoot with those sweet new shurikens is going to hit on 4s? booh. im not sure id prefer the new silly run shoot run that only works half of the time if theres terrain involved, and is super dicey even with out it, over having the old battle focus rule.
Can't say I advance all that often to be honest - i generally try to keep out of combat where i can!
Only things I run forward are wraiths to hold mid-table objectives.
I think move shoot move is far more usable as an army-wide ability.
Scoundrel80 wrote: so all our advance n shoot with those sweet new shurikens is going to hit on 4s? booh. im not sure id prefer the new silly run shoot run that only works half of the time if theres terrain involved, and is super dicey even with out it, over having the old battle focus rule.
The new battle focus kept the "count as stationary" for assault and pistol IIRC.
Scoundrel80 wrote: so all our advance n shoot with those sweet new shurikens is going to hit on 4s? booh. im not sure id prefer the new silly run shoot run that only works half of the time if theres terrain involved, and is super dicey even with out it, over having the old battle focus rule.
The new battle focus kept the "count as stationary" for assault and pistol IIRC.
Correct. Battle Focus has two parts, so to speak. If the model Advances, it can fire Pistol and Assault as if it remained stationary. If the model did not Advance or Fall Back, it can instead utilize Battle Focus to move D6" after it shoots.
Look at the Far Flung Craftworld ability 'Hail of Doom'. Dire Avengers, Guardians, Jetbikes, War Walkers, and even Vypers can mass Shuriken fire to get pretty good utility out of Hail of Doom.
Automatically Appended Next Post: At this point, points, Stratagems, and Relics are mostly what is unknown. Based on what we've seen, it looks like most units went up slightly, while our solid units of 8th edition (Reapers, Spears) stayed the same, but dropped down in efficiency. Based on that, I've developed a rough army based on Hail of Doom and Hunters of Ancient Relics.
Farseer
Autarch with Wings
5 Rangers, Wireweave Net
5 Rangers, Wireweave Net
10 Guardians, Serpent Shield
2 War Walkers, 4 Shuriken Cannon
2 War Walkers, 4 Shuriken Cannon
2 D-Cannon Support Platforms
Wave Serpent, 3 Shuriken Cannon
So far, the leaks really look to provide a lot of options to build. After looking at the Scorpion leaks, I'm already wanting to tweak the list to include them haha.
Scoundrel80 wrote: so all our advance n shoot with those sweet new shurikens is going to hit on 4s? booh. im not sure id prefer the new silly run shoot run that only works half of the time if theres terrain involved, and is super dicey even with out it, over having the old battle focus rule.
The new battle focus kept the "count as stationary" for assault and pistol IIRC.
Correct. Battle Focus has two parts, so to speak. If the model Advances, it can fire Pistol and Assault as if it remained stationary. If the model did not Advance or Fall Back, it can instead utilize Battle Focus to move D6" after it shoots.
Look at the Far Flung Craftworld ability 'Hail of Doom'. Dire Avengers, Guardians, Jetbikes, War Walkers, and even Vypers can mass Shuriken fire to get pretty good utility out of Hail of Doom.
Yeah, add to that 'Children of the skies' for minimum advances of 3" and +1" to movement for all unit (+2" for those with fly) and it might be really good !
will one serpent be enough now? I look at all the indirect and want cars for my dudes. ok, in all fairness I haven't really read the tau codex all that trhouroughly but Ive heard it shoots you out of LOS all day long.
As a sort of last dance of the old codex, I took the same list I've been playing recently and thought I'd see how I'd do against Tau. Played two games against a guy who won a GT last week and following a quick reset because I didn't know what the new stuff did (and gak hot rolls from my opponent 12/15 4+ saves on drones), we played a proper game and it ended up being a very close 83-81 Craftworlds victory. We did run out of time but we were able to talk out our strategies and agreed that with the psychic support I'd be able to gain the points needed for the win. Tough game and I can definitely appreciate the issues people are having with them. My movement shenanigans definitely made it a lot easier for me.
I had to play super cagey and screen a lot with my deepstriking units but it was very manageable once I made some good decisions on picking secondaries, letting me play that way but still netting Primaries and Secondaries. I picked RND, Stranglehold and Psychic Interrogation and managed to go 12/12/15 on secondaries. Never usually go for the psychic actions but I had a largely redundant Wraithseer with Quicken so rather than smite, the actions were more valuable.
Crusher Stampede tomorrow evening, that will probably be the last game for me with the old codex at a 50% win rate over 26 games so far.
From bits I’ve read and sticked together, I’m pretty sure they have turn 1 deepstrike as an option. Not sure if it’s native, or via a cloudstrike stratagem or something like that.
But dropping cargo (and it’s own guns) into your opponent’s lap turn one somehow.
I'm looking forward to reading the Codex since I'm curious if one could drop in a Falcon turn 1, then deploy its PAX 3" from the hull or if the troops inside must also be 9" away from the enemy.
Extremely doubtful. You can’t deploy units from reserves turn one. And when you do come out of reserves that transport counts as moving. And disembarking is done at the start of the movement face. And reserves arrive at the end of the movement phase.
Why not just start the falcon on the table with the troops inside?
The Falcon rules are very specific. They can come in on turn one. The unit inside can disembark after the Falcon is placed; both the Falcon and unit(s) must be over 9" away.
Strands of fate feels really powerful. You have to see it in action (already some youtube battle reports up). Sometimes, it just gives that something that enables a key model to survive when it shouldn't, or for that key long bomb charge to go in, and its a win.
stratigo wrote: I think eldar are tau and custodes level. There is just so many tricks in the book
From early battle reports, it's not even close.
One game, the custodes won by a landslide after losing only two units. And then the custodes player realised he had another whole unit in deepstrike he had forgotten about all game and never used. He just never even got close to needing it.
Strands of fate is decent but very limited. Custodes get a lot more rerolls, along with better saves and invulns and protection from mortals. Not even close.
Eldar vs Tau may be closer, but eldar is overcosted and tau are undercosted. But points are easier to change.
Custodes need widespread changes to both points and CP costs, if not army abilities too.
stratigo wrote: I think eldar are tau and custodes level. There is just so many tricks in the book
From early battle reports, it's not even close.
One game, the custodes won by a landslide after losing only two units. And then the custodes player realised he had another whole unit in deepstrike he had forgotten about all game and never used. He just never even got close to needing it.
Strands of fate is decent but very limited. Custodes get a lot more rerolls, along with better saves and invulns and protection from mortals. Not even close.
Eldar vs Tau may be closer, but eldar is overcosted and tau are undercosted. But points are easier to change.
Custodes need widespread changes to both points and CP costs, if not army abilities too.
Custodes don’t get more rerolls. Why do you think they get more rerolls?
And like, youtube isn’t THE definitive answer to how an army has plays
Automatically Appended Next Post: So the only custodes s eldar batrep I could find on youtube was, uh, people clearly not trying to be super competetive, but the custodes player clearly took better elements in his army. The eldar player had not a single aspect and brought a wraithknight. literally using none of the new book tricks either to try and play with mobility and reserves.
A representative of what eldar can do, this game was not. It wasn't even a good rep of custodes, but it at least had trajan and a bike cap and a few missiles. And a dreadnought.
So what you're saying is Custodes is the new faceroll faction of the moment, their basics are so strong you can almost forget strategy and still be competitive if you play well enough and the dice are on your side lol
Octovol wrote: So what you're saying is Custodes is the new faceroll faction of the moment, their basics are so strong you can almost forget strategy and still be competitive if you play well enough and the dice are on your side lol
Pretty much. Though in large part because the custodes line up is so limited that there really isn’t a lot o of variation.
That said I think tau play quite strong into custodes. So the dream is kind of a counter triangle
Sterling191 wrote: Native turn 1 drop, and native ability to deploy cargo after arriving.
wow. just wow. so cool fluff wise. The army feels so fast now. but not like drukhari. different and so crafworld eldar imo. Controlled, tactical and systematic somehow. the miracle die rule fits the lore super well too. and seems very strong. great design. Iver heard some Silly stuff, though. The farseer powers having range 18 but 24 if you roll 10+. Makes no sense. also, I feel some of the psychic powers were nerfed way too hard. Quicken is completely neutered. What is that now? a situational late game scoring tool? also, taking the invuln debuff out of jinx is a shame, Imo. these days every one has an invuln and wee are seeing counters for them pop up. So why deny craftworlds that? its not a big problem, I just feel the spell would make for some cool plays in a meta like this. it was always such a great counter for heavy infantry like blight lords or custodes and stuff like that. but then again, shurikens now have that ap so maybe the army would simply be to good with jinx on top. I think im still against the nerf at the end of the day because doom and guide have taking such a huge hit. and dark reapers who were tied in with those three spells.
good thing we at least have a tool for invulns with linked fire.
Overall, though, I feel the general direction for the faction is a great one: better units that can actually achieve something without tripple layered psychic powers. And naturally, the powers have to be a bit weaker because of that.
I feel I want to go 3x falcons with 18 scorpions in them. Omg or banshees. or maybe 3x5 and karandras or something. drool. falcons seem amazing with that pulse laser.
Eldenfirefly wrote: Strands of fate feels really powerful. You have to see it in action (already some youtube battle reports up). Sometimes, it just gives that something that enables a key model to survive when it shouldn't, or for that key long bomb charge to go in, and its a win.
I love that mechanic sooooo elder. I jus hope its not op. I mean, you can still get stuff you totally not need so Imo, sister MD are still marginally better.
Crafter91 wrote: Anybody else sick of people saying "they're gonna be so OP" yet?
It's all i'm getting at my local club and honestly, it's kind of ruining the excitement for me...
Obviously it's clear they're going to be top tier, but I'm trying to remain hopeful they they're not going to be miles ahead of the current meta.
Honestly the way I want to run mine (2 falcons with 6-man corsair squads) doesn't seem OP at all, just very fun and fluffy witht he "drop-pod" rules for the falcon. This codex also made Wraithlords with swords playable which I have been waiting for since I modeled them. Overall happy with the balance theory-crafting right now, I guess we'll see when I actually play test.
It's always possible, but not sure if its effective.
Serpent spam is a formation of say five Serpents loaded with say msu aspect warriors approaching the opponent gradually and shooting their full load (like 3 shuricannons).
Not every enemy can withstand this fire power. And if the enemy comes close let out the fire dragon or other aspects to hold it at bay or slow down its advance.
What are some opinions of the new Jetbikes? New "hunters of ancient relics" and "hail of doom" on stock twin-catapult bikes seems really good for mid-field objective grabbers. Early and late-game if they live.
Robcio wrote: What are some opinions of the new Jetbikes? New "hunters of ancient relics" and "hail of doom" on stock twin-catapult bikes seems really good for mid-field objective grabbers. Early and late-game if they live.
Haven't seen these rules so far.
But jetbikers with shuricannons and a rule like ''shoot and fade'' would definitely be an option to fill gaps in the shooting line and to capture objectives.
Robcio wrote: What are some opinions of the new Jetbikes? New "hunters of ancient relics" and "hail of doom" on stock twin-catapult bikes seems really good for mid-field objective grabbers. Early and late-game if they live.
Been thinking about a full jetbike army with hail of doom:
got about 100 points left (2000pt list) probably use it for exarch upgrades and singing spears and stuff..
Really like the shuriken catapult output in combination with hail of doom, bladestorm stratagem, guide and doom..
Probably too fragile to win tournaments but the range of movement is sick. I could give all the bikes +2 movement and a singing spear unit +2 charge (psychic power), use the strands of fate for one 6 to charge.... and that means the unit get 16+2+2+6+d6 with full movement and charging.
I did a small test and once got 6,6,6 and a 2 for strands of fate (6 dice and two reroll because of the farseers) I could use the 2 for assault and 3 rerolls for the inv save (6,6,6). It really makes the singing spear unit a lot tougher.
So, is there going to be a seperate Harlequin tactica thread for 9th? I know they are in the Eldar codex, but they are also still very much a stand alone army.
Robcio wrote: What are some opinions of the new Jetbikes? New "hunters of ancient relics" and "hail of doom" on stock twin-catapult bikes seems really good for mid-field objective grabbers. Early and late-game if they live.
Haven't seen these rules so far.
But jetbikers with shuricannons and a rule like ''shoot and fade'' would definitely be an option to fill gaps in the shooting line and to capture objectives.
Stock bikes are 20ppm, Shuri-cannon are 30ppm. Hail of doom is auto-wound on 6's to hit (also counts as a 6 to wound) on shuriken weapons. I was thinking to go for max shots but the extra range, 2D and S6 for only one less shot is still a good trade-off but with a 50% increase in points not sure how worth it.
Hunters of ancient relics lets your units complete actions and still shoot. Hence my thinking with the midfield presence of jetbikes with 18" twin-catapult. To argue both sides, shuri-cannon ones could hold back field objectives and be a bit safer with the same craftworlds.
Robcio wrote: What are some opinions of the new Jetbikes? New "hunters of ancient relics" and "hail of doom" on stock twin-catapult bikes seems really good for mid-field objective grabbers. Early and late-game if they live.
Been thinking about a full jetbike army with hail of doom:
(Forgot how to "spoiler" hide stuff so i just cut your list to not take up space)
Yeah it looks super fun with the auto advance on bikes and either move-shoot-scoot or advance 22" and then still have no penalty to shoot with assault weapons.
I'm planning on fluffing my army to be corsairs (with 2 units of 6 dropping in falcons turn 1) and then a bunch of bikes zipping around fits their playstyle. (me and my buddies play ~1000pts games, for reference) I'm still debating the range of the shuri-cannons as the list would lack back-field support. Doing some quick math with squads of 6 the catapults will only kill 3.5 MEC and 11 chaff (T3 models, 4+AC) vs. 6 MEC and 8 chaff
That said, 2 squads of 6 cannons and one squad of 3 scatter laser to balance out chaff clear could work for balance.
I guess as seems to be a pattern with this codex (which i think is a good thing) it all comes down to the roll in you list. Every option seems fun and useful.
So after seeing the leaks, I cant see the point in ever taking Windriders over Spears, which is a shame because I started Eldar back in 4th/5th because Eldar Jetbikes were such cool Troops.
I was really hoping WRs would become Troops again since DAs got moved to Elites and Shroud Runners exist for Scatter laser spam.
But as Fast Attack, WRs have literally nothing that Spears or Shroud runners can't do better, except spam Shuricannons, which can be plentiful elsewhere in the list.
5 Spears with an Exarch with Shuricannon & Star lance will cost ~10pts more than 6 Shuricannon WRs.
Those 5 spears will be more durable (-1 to be hit, 5++) and will do way more damage overall. While thier shooting isn't as good as 18 Shuricannon shots, you still get 16 catapult shots, 3 Shuricannon shots and 5 Lance shots. That's respectable.
And obviously the melee output is better.
I just don't understand why WRs have to continue to be punished for 7th ed Scatterbike spam.
Good thing I converted all my WRs to Spears years ago.
It's always possible, but not sure if its effective.
Serpent spam is a formation of say five Serpents loaded with say msu aspect warriors approaching the opponent gradually and shooting their full load (like 3 shuricannons).
Not every enemy can withstand this fire power. And if the enemy comes close let out the fire dragon or other aspects to hold it at bay or slow down its advance.
I've been collecting forge world wave serpents for years since 4th ed, so.... now that I got 11..... If its not useful in this edition, I'm selling a few
I've been collecting forge world wave serpents for years since 4th ed, so.... now that I got 11..... If its not useful in this edition, I'm selling a few
Wow. Even if Serpent spam somehow becomes the most absolute tippy-top of the meta, there's no way you'd want to field more than about 7-8. Remember you actually need the units that would fit into the Serpents plus HQs.
At 2000k pts, you'd be hard pressed to fit 7-8 INFANTRY units, 2-3 HQs and 7-8 Serpents in a single list.
And that's best case scenario. With Falcons being so good for Turn 1 arrival, it's probably best to do a mixed list.
I only have 3 total Grav tanks, but thanx to magnets, they can be any combination of units I need them to be.
But if I had 11, specifically Serpents, I'd probably sell 5-6 of them at least.
Just my 2 cents
I've been collecting forge world wave serpents for years since 4th ed, so.... now that I got 11..... If its not useful in this edition, I'm selling a few
Wow. Even if Serpent spam somehow becomes the most absolute tippy-top of the meta, there's no way you'd want to field more than about 7-8. Remember you actually need the units that would fit into the Serpents plus HQs.
At 2000k pts, you'd be hard pressed to fit 7-8 INFANTRY units, 2-3 HQs and 7-8 Serpents in a single list.
And that's best case scenario. With Falcons being so good for Turn 1 arrival, it's probably best to do a mixed list.
I only have 3 total Grav tanks, but thanx to magnets, they can be any combination of units I need them to be.
But if I had 11, specifically Serpents, I'd probably sell 5-6 of them at least.
Just my 2 cents
-
Based on the responses, I'm probably going to keep 4 only.
Stock bikes are 20ppm, Shuri-cannon are 30ppm. Hail of doom is auto-wound on 6's to hit (also counts as a 6 to wound) on shuriken weapons. I was thinking to go for max shots but the extra range, 2D and S6 for only one less shot is still a good trade-off but with a 50% increase in points not sure how worth it.
If you compare 9 twin linked catapult windriders with 6 shuri-cannon windriders (both 180 points) and add 'hail of doom' and 'bladestorm' then more shots also generates more 6's and more extra hits. It really helps if you got 'guide' going on and reroll all the 'non 6'-hits to get more 6's. I kinda like the 1 damage weapons with more and more -1 damage going around and you got no waste damage. shooting with D2 weapons at 3 wound models and you simply waste 25% of all the damage.
Galef wrote:
But as Fast Attack, WRs have literally nothing that Spears or Shroud runners can't do better, except spam Shuricannons, which can be plentiful elsewhere in the list.
5 Spears with an Exarch with Shuricannon & Star lance will cost ~10pts more than 6 Shuricannon WRs.
Those 5 spears will be more durable (-1 to be hit, 5++) and will do way more damage overall. While thier shooting isn't as good as 18 Shuricannon shots, you still get 16 catapult shots, 3 Shuricannon shots and 5 Lance shots. That's respectable.
And obviously the melee output is better.
I was also hoping that there would be an option to field windriders as troops. But that would mean you could destroy half the enemies army turn one with devastating fire power and speed. Now I'am going to try to push 3x6 shining spears forward backed up by 3x9 cheap windriders. If the enemy takes down my shining spears then 3x9 windriders can also bring in a lot of pain. meanwhile other units take objectives and dominate the field. still need to test this...
Corsair Voidscarred are looking a little interesting...
85 points gets you 6 bodies:
- 5 rapid fire shuriken rifle shots (this is pretty meh)
- 19 power sword attacks
- any 6s to hit in either phase auto-wounds
- a caster equivalent to a spiritseer (but with the powers options of a -farseer-)
Yeah I'm really looking forward to trying out Corsairs in my army, especially the Elite version with Psyker powers. Hopefully the box set comes out soon.
Niiru wrote: Corsair Voidscarred are looking a little interesting...
85 points gets you 6 bodies:
- 5 rapid fire shuriken rifle shots (this is pretty meh)
- 19 power sword attacks
- any 6s to hit in either phase auto-wounds
- a caster equivalent to a spiritseer (but with the powers options of a -farseer-)
By comparison, a spiritseer is 70 points.
How are you getting shuriken rifle shots AND power sword attacks? The models can have pistol and power sword OR a different gun
I do really like how they can have a psyker in the unit. It seems very cost effective in terms of points, and the squads of 6 fit nicely into Falcons
Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Red Hobbit wrote: Yeah I'm really looking forward to trying out Corsairs in my army, especially the Elite version with Psyker powers. Hopefully the box set comes out soon.
In the last war-com post about this topic (chaos and the rest of the contents {terrain and such} were revealed) they said "will be available to preorder soon". Im hoping because the units are in the codex this means preorders will be up this weekend or next.
wuestenfux wrote: Troops in the new CWE codex don't seem very promising if you ask me.
They all seem to have T3 and 5+/5++ save so that I'd stay away from them.
Guardians are actually 4+. Not that it matters with all the AP-1 out there, but still.
I look at it this way, Dire Avengers used to be considered a decent Troop option. They had 4+ save and 18" catapults for 11ppm. Guardians now get that for only 9ppm.
The only downside is that you need 10min instead of 5.
But Rangers are still Troops if you want to man-made (which I will certainly be doing).
With all the other super good units in the Codex, it's probably a good thing that our Troops are only "meh".
In a slightly related note, would it be better to take 2 Patrols over 1 Battalion? You'd have to spend 2CP on the second Patrol, but it means you only have to take 2HQs and 2 Troops min. But you'd also get 4 Elites, Fast, Heavy.
While that's 2 less Elites than a Battalion, it's an extra Fast and/or Heavy
Niiru wrote: Corsair Voidscarred are looking a little interesting...
85 points gets you 6 bodies:
- 5 rapid fire shuriken rifle shots (this is pretty meh)
- 19 power sword attacks
- any 6s to hit in either phase auto-wounds
- a caster equivalent to a spiritseer (but with the powers options of a -farseer-)
By comparison, a spiritseer is 70 points.
How are you getting shuriken rifle shots AND power sword attacks? The models can have pistol and power sword OR a different gun
I do really like how they can have a psyker in the unit. It seems very cost effective in terms of points, and the squads of 6 fit nicely into Falcons
Because I'm terrible at writing when tired lol. It was meant to be an "or". Which is why I said the rifles option is pretty meh, compared to the (I think anyway) much better powersword loadout.
The Red Hobbit wrote: I personally would recommend a Battalion since our Eldar appears to be very CP hungry, plus we've got a lot of great units in the Elite spot.
I need to work in Wraithlords, Fire Dragons, Striking Scoprions, and Dire Avengers and I'll be using all 6 slots for that.
I've never needed lots of Elites but rather Fast Attack. I currently only own 4 Elites: 1 Scorpion unit, 1 Fire Dragon unit and now my Warlock Skyrunner and WL are Elites too. Since my Farseer makes the Warlock slotless, that means I'll only ever need 3 Elites anyway.
I hear you on the CP hunger, though. Hopefully Strands of Fate mitigates that a bit
Aspect Warriors and Wraithlords have always been my favorite Eldar units so I've got plenty of those, with Wraithlords moving to Elites I've actually got plenty of free space under Heavy Support now.
I figure after a few test games you'll get a good feel for how much CP you're willing to forgo. As I recall you have a lot of Windriders so two patrols might be the right way to go, or perhaps a Patrol + Outrider Detachment.
The Red Hobbit wrote: Aspect Warriors and Wraithlords have always been my favorite Eldar units so I've got plenty of those, with Wraithlords moving to Elites I've actually got plenty of free space under Heavy Support now.
I figure after a few test games you'll get a good feel for how much CP you're willing to forgo. As I recall you have a lot of Windriders so two patrols might be the right way to go, or perhaps a Patrol + Outrider Detachment.
I've actually converted all my WRs to be Spears since WRs aren't ever going back to Troops and Spears are just bettering every way (that counts). I also have 3 Shroud runners now too, so yeah I need lots of Fast Attack.
2 Patrols gets me 4 total slots (one more than a Battalion) for less CP than an Outrider detachment.
i dont understand in the footsteps of the ancients. if you have this then you can't take a second trait, right? So why ever take this over just taking a named one? what am I missing.
hmm.. so I just discovered that shurcannons are now heavy3 so no more advancing wave serpents/vypers/warwalkers with 2 or 3 of these. Loved those builds.
Scoundrel80 wrote: hmm.. so I just discovered that shurcannons are now heavy3 so no more advancing wave serpents/vypers/warwalkers with 2 or 3 of these. Loved those builds.
I'm pretty sure only Infantry get the -1 to hit. Vehicles can still move and shoot heavy weapons without penalty.
The Red Hobbit wrote: Wouldn't it be -2 CP either way? Patrol + Patrol (-2CP) versus Outrider (Warlord) + Patrol (-2CP)?
Outriders, Vanguards and Spearheads do not refund CPs. So an Outrider detachment is gonna cost 3CPs regardless.
If they did refund CPs, I wouldn't even bother with Patrols or even Troops.
Scoundrel80 wrote: hmm.. so I just discovered that shurcannons are now heavy3 so no more advancing wave serpents/vypers/warwalkers with 2 or 3 of these. Loved those builds.
I'm pretty sure only Infantry get the -1 to hit. Vehicles can still move and shoot heavy weapons without penalty.
Scoundrel80 wrote: hmm.. so I just discovered that shurcannons are now heavy3 so no more advancing wave serpents/vypers/warwalkers with 2 or 3 of these. Loved those builds.
I'm pretty sure only Infantry get the -1 to hit. Vehicles can still move and shoot heavy weapons without penalty.
Niiru wrote: Corsair Voidscarred are looking a little interesting...
85 points gets you 6 bodies:
- 5 rapid fire shuriken rifle shots (this is pretty meh)
- 19 power sword attacks
- any 6s to hit in either phase auto-wounds
- a caster equivalent to a spiritseer (but with the powers options of a -farseer-)
By comparison, a spiritseer is 70 points.
How are you getting shuriken rifle shots AND power sword attacks? The models can have pistol and power sword OR a different gun
I do really like how they can have a psyker in the unit. It seems very cost effective in terms of points, and the squads of 6 fit nicely into Falcons
Because I'm terrible at writing when tired lol. It was meant to be an "or". Which is why I said the rifles option is pretty meh, compared to the (I think anyway) much better powersword loadout.
Gotcha, that makes more sense XD. Yeah the sword and pistol loadout seems to have more damage output. The thing is its not enough damage to really balance out how quickly they will die into any MEC units that they don't completely wipe. I think they are decent bully/ versatile units if you take a bit of a mix, especially with the psyker, but not super strong.
wuestenfux wrote: Troops in the new CWE codex don't seem very promising if you ask me.
They all seem to have T3 and 5+/5++ save so that I'd stay away from them.
Guardians are actually 4+. Not that it matters with all the AP-1 out there, but still.
I look at it this way, Dire Avengers used to be considered a decent Troop option. They had 4+ save and 18" catapults for 11ppm. Guardians now get that for only 9ppm.
The only downside is that you need 10min instead of 5.
But Rangers are still Troops if you want to man-made (which I will certainly be doing).
With all the other super good units in the Codex, it's probably a good thing that our Troops are only "meh".
In a slightly related note, would it be better to take 2 Patrols over 1 Battalion? You'd have to spend 2CP on the second Patrol, but it means you only have to take 2HQs and 2 Troops min. But you'd also get 4 Elites, Fast, Heavy.
While that's 2 less Elites than a Battalion, it's an extra Fast and/or Heavy
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Good to know that Guardians are now 4+.
In view of the detachments, the good old Battalion gets my first attention.
I'm not planning to run too many FA units.
can warlocks still swop their smite for tunes of furtune powers? I not, who has them? I can see that eldrad has them and that the ulthwe helm grants aces. but not warlocks with the new book?
Automatically Appended Next Post: one thing; where does it say that eldrad gets the fate reader WT? I want him to have it but I can't see anything like that on his data sheet? just watched the AoW guys play where he had it. And TTT did the same thing the other day, I think.
Automatically Appended Next Post: One more question: does fateful divergence circumvent the "you can only regenerate one cp per battleground" rule? if you cast this and roll a six with seer of the shifting vector in the same battleground would you get one or two cp back for that battle round?
Scoundrel80 wrote: can warlocks still swop their smite for tunes of furtune powers? I not, who has them? I can see that eldrad has them and that the ulthwe helm grants aces. but not warlocks with the new book?
Runes of Battle only for Warlocks.
Runes of Fate/Fortune for Farseer and Corsair Way Seeker.
Runes of Battle/Fortune for Spiritseer.
Ulthwe relic hat looks like the only way to get a single pick from Runes of Fortune onto a Warlock.
Scoundrel80 wrote: Automatically Appended Next Post: one thing; where does it say that eldrad gets the fate reader WT? I want him to have it but I can't see anything like that on his data sheet? just watched the AoW guys play where he had it. And TTT did the same thing the other day, I think.
Warlord Traits page of the codex lists what named characters get, Eldrad does get fate reader.
Scoundrel80 wrote: Automatically Appended Next Post: One more question: does fateful divergence circumvent the "you can only regenerate one cp per battleground" rule? if you cast this and roll a six with seer of the shifting vector in the same battleground would you get one or two cp back for that battle round?
Neither rule notes any ability to overcome the 1cp limit, so still capped at 1cp I believe.
last one: if I advance and then shoot with swooping hawks, then I can't take of and redeploy, right? they have to be able to make a battle focused move and then can't do that if they advanced, I guess.
Scoundrel80 wrote: can warlocks still swop their smite for tunes of furtune powers? I not, who has them? I can see that eldrad has them and that the ulthwe helm grants aces. but not warlocks with the new book?
Runes of Battle only for Warlocks.
Runes of Fate/Fortune for Farseer and Corsair Way Seeker.
Runes of Battle/Fortune for Spiritseer.
Ulthwe relic hat looks like the only way to get a single pick from Runes of Fortune onto a Warlock.
Scoundrel80 wrote: Automatically Appended Next Post: one thing; where does it say that eldrad gets the fate reader WT? I want him to have it but I can't see anything like that on his data sheet? just watched the AoW guys play where he had it. And TTT did the same thing the other day, I think.
Warlord Traits page of the codex lists what named characters get, Eldrad does get fate reader.
Scoundrel80 wrote: Automatically Appended Next Post: One more question: does fateful divergence circumvent the "you can only regenerate one cp per battleground" rule? if you cast this and roll a six with seer of the shifting vector in the same battleground would you get one or two cp back for that battle round?
Neither rule notes any ability to overcome the 1cp limit, so still capped at 1cp I believe.
thanks, man.
Automatically Appended Next Post: trying to build list for tomorrow. I want to try everything but can't decide whats better. so many routes to go.
so this is what I got so far:
ulthwe
Eldar ulthwe 2000
Eldrad 145, fate reader, smite, fortune, guide, will of Asyryan
Farseer on bike 120 seer of the vector, ghost helm, Doom, smite, executioner, ghost walk.
Comments
Im going for full strands shenanigans, decent amounts of obsec and 2 falcon deep strikes with 6 dragons in one and 6 scorps in the other. Anti tank is 6 dragons and 2 pulse lasers. idk if thats enough.
powers are so hard. I sort of feel I need ghost walk for the scorpion charge out of the falcon. with a strands 6 and ghost walk its an auto. Will of asyryan seems fun, but I dont know how good it actually is. I want focus will on one farseer, but then again; I can't see them ever casting it.
So now they are just melee buffers. a tad bit lame maybe. any comments?
Mine isn't far off yours Scoundrel, I did play this list on Wednesday and found the pieces didn't synergise overly well and as I was playing Grey Knights, the strands of fate dice for the psychic tests really didn't help too much compared with the old full rerolls. The relic to make tests undeniable was really nice though and Eldrad with reroll tests is very nice. My list needs more refinement, but the guardian bomb worked well with the Ulthwe strat and the Autarch being around to offer reroll hits of 1 was helpful too. My opponent brought a pretty hardcore tournament list so it wasn't the best game to learn a new book, but I appreciate that without his Callidus Assassin making 4+s all the time to make my strats more expensive won't be a common occurrence in games.
I also ran a deepstrike Biel-Tan list against GSC, which worked less than well due to the deployment and board control shenanigans of the GSC. I went first so they were very much a counter to what I made the list to be as a counter attacking army. Cagey game overall.
It'll take a few games until I feel comfortable with the army and what different things do, but so far I feel like fire dragons are a very expensive trap in a falcon, I was intending on running them in my Biel Tan list but Reapers are just more versatile for around the same points mark. I think the secondaries aren't worth building around and instead just go for the GT secondaries. I think my next list will be Shuriken spam with Hail of Doom and Expert Crafters, lots of shots means more units can be squeezed in and it wouldn't look a lot different to the Biel-Tan one above.
Both lists look more like a fund of models.
In a battallion, the standard troop choices could indeed be 2x5 Rangers (for backfield occupation) and 1x20 Guardians (as a shock-and-awe unit). Not sure how Corsairs fit into this mix.
HQs shouldn't be lumbering but have greater mobility. This was quite useful in former editions with an Autarch on jetbike (quite a threat for enemy HQs to finish them off) and a Skyrunner Farseer (to get out of harm's way and cast where needed).
wuestenfux wrote: Both lists look more like a fund of models.
In a battallion, the standard troop choices could indeed be 2x5 Rangers (for backfield occupation) and 1x20 Guardians (as a shock-and-awe unit). Not sure how Corsairs fit into this mix.
HQs shouldn't be lumbering but have greater mobility. This was quite useful in former editions with an Autarch on jetbike (quite a threat for enemy HQs to finish them off) and a Skyrunner Farseer (to get out of harm's way and cast where needed).
Indeed, it does look that way and the lists don't play how I want them but it was fun to play with the new stuff and see what could be done. I did find the 2x5 Rangers to be effective in carrying out actions and screening, and the extra range on shuriken catapults makes a guardian bomb very reliable. The aspect warriors were fairly good in general and it did create a dilemma of what would be the best Guide target now that it works in close combat. The HQs were actually quite mobile, the Jump Generator is worth the points and the Wing relic gives the foot Farseer much needed mobility with some mortal wound output.
yeah, mobile buffs and the ability to shift the board and direct might to new areas was key before, but it is even more key now, it seems. Reason is, I think, because the buffs are a lot more rigid now with core requirements etc. I run autarch skyrunner, farseer sky runner, warlock sky runner. I actually cut a second warlock sky runner last moment and I sort of missed him actually. So yeah, the buffs game is still backbone to eldar play, imo. My buffs are pretty easy to distribute with eldrad being the only slouch. Thats why I deck him out super back line with guide, fortune and.. will of asyryan. More on that one later.
I got my first game in to day and I love, love, love this book. So well designed. its a very cleverly designed upgrade that feels like a sidegrade. feels a bit like the sisters book did, but prolly a bit stronger.
The army just feels so fresh and versatile. I can run almost every unit now and build something around the various themes. with the old book you had to cheese up and exploit narrow, broken stuff to have a chances even at kitchen table games. so few units could compete. Now you can build so many cool armies. The depth here is completely bonkers. And I haven even theory crafted the ynnari or Harley’s in to my contemplations. I feel there are so many combos across all the psychics, the stats, the exarch powers, craft world traits and the relics an WTs.
some notes:
- strands are in-sane-ly cool and very powerfull. The thing is, that there are so many combos here. For example the mechanic is one of the biggest buffs to eldar survivability in general. Every one has invulnerable saves now, so those 6s for saves are so good. its that wave serpent that lives, that character that stays alive, its a 10 attacks d2 banshee exarch that doesn't die or its the one meta shot that doesn't oneshot your war walker controlling these strands, adding and reroling them cleverly with 2 farseers (mandatory now I think) was just so big here.
I could have lost the game t2 but had managed to reroll my self into 4 sixes for saves that turn, and it more or less solidified the game in my favor. Managing the dice seriously makes me visualize that farseer who stands in the hill during the battle studying the runes haha : ) no but, its such a cool little minigame, that can really impact the board. Super strong for auto 7s (8s for first spells by ulthwe casters) in psychic too.
- Which leads me to psychic powers. These took a big hit, but its a good thing. They feel so much more sophisticated now. Quicken is somehow the exception, Imo, as is just I bit boring now. Not even letting them shoot after q seems a bit sad. But overall the buffs are still super good. Executor is still brutal, fortune, hey take more effort. i had a sequence that felt really good and felt very spicy when it mapped out. my executor/doom seer on bike had the helm and ghost walk. I just wanted to go deepstrike 5-10 scorpions (I ran 6) then ghostwalk them and then strands of fate in an auto six to get an auto deep strike charge. It worked wonders.
- Btw: I can believe there is no cap for mandiblaster MWs? I couldn’t find it anywhere. they killed a dreadnaught no problem. 6 mw with the super mandis and I did even roll overly good. Back to psychic: That dreadnaught was doomed and that just so good with mandi blasters especially. So psychic and strands of opens up a lot of play. if you do a seer council in requisition for +1, your guys can auto 8. With focus will, ulthwes first cast and what not you can auto super smite! It hink there is a lot og potential in going through that stuff thoroughly. Also, all of the sudden those silly “24 inches range, if you go 10+” rules make a lot more sense : ) brilliant design, Imo.
- My grav tanks just melted away like nothing. No feel no pains hurts more than I thought. But I guess I could have played them more defensively. one got melted by 5 long fangs., another got ripped apart by murderfang and the last got smashed by a dread with axe and shield.
- Omg we can alpha strike now. These drop pod falcons are just so cool. They (together with all the other deepstrikes) makes our army feel fast in a very different way from say drokhari or.. white scars or something. Harleys too. The warp spiders are completely bonkers with the upgrade that gives them 1d6 shots more when coming out of deep. 5 guys roll a staggering 12 d6 s6 ap-2 d1 shoots. i dont know what lives through that. and the 2d6 battle focus jump is so cool. Strong but not op. At all. Its still super risky and they got In trouble in my game when I nulled 2+2 no rerolls. Just tough luck. I love that. They killed a long fangs squad turn 2 and 2 outriders on turn 3. loved them.
- Banshees got gotchaed by some 6inch space wolf heroic intervention strat, that I semi-forgot and then god fight lasted by armor of russ. So after reading rules about fighting tiers and eligibility for 45 minutes the edge was then off my gals. They still killed the super bike captain and a few marines but ultimately got murdered. I think they traded decently, but I misplayed them a bit. They seem so well designed now. A true glass cannon but with options like protect and fortune, they perform pretty well even when blind sided like in this game.
- Firedragons coming out of falcons is the best thing since yoghurt. Love that they can’t go back inside now with fire and fade. You can STILL make clever moves like that but its not as auto and non-interactive as putting these or 10 reapers into complete safety every turn.
- Love how they boosted our resilience and board presence. We still. melt. But small things like the occasional 5++ and the baby transhuman on guardians, a few auto saves with strands etc. add up. It feels super good, fresh and well balanced Imo.
- Yeah, I too think 2x scouts and 10 guardians should probably be the standard troop tax. I ran 10x3 guardians just to see what I could get of the ulthwe strat. They where good, no doubt, but 270 points is a lot. Honestly, though, they protected my back field so well. He had some stuff in reserve (some silly anti psyker space wolf marines) and he could really steal a backline objective because these guys threatened forewarned and black guardians for 20 shuriken shots at 2+ within 18. You can get rerolls too (if within obj) og exploding sixes. Not that you’ll want to put in all those cp but its still a play. Same goes for overwatch and then Black Guardians to hit on 5s (thats legal, right?) long story short; I like them.
- I missed the feeling of sheer efficiency that expert crafters gave, but I sort f think we’ll be good without it. We can still be very efficient if we put effort into it.
- we have a few action denial stuff and I just wanted to mention how cool a swiss ar knife spell will of asyryan is. Used it to take an objective by granting obsec late game, and had guardians not break where they probably would have AND shooting while taking and aspen scan action on an obejctive. For 3vp. It just felt amazingly dope.
- Will test shining spears next time. They just seem so easy to kill now..
- Only gripe: the autarch on bikes has the most dull load out options imaginable.
All in all; this book makes me so hyped on 40k. Even more than the wonderful custodes book I got for my other army last month.
Great insights. Were the Ulthwe traits and strat that good? The invul save and +5 against mortal wounds makes things a hair more survivable, which we need, but I'm wondering if it's enough. I'm thinking of leaning into the glass cannon and using Beil-Tan for the rerolls to hit and exploding 6s for the aspects
The Red Hobbit wrote: I personally would recommend a Battalion since our Eldar appears to be very CP hungry, plus we've got a lot of great units in the Elite spot.
I need to work in Wraithlords, Fire Dragons, Striking Scoprions, and Dire Avengers and I'll be using all 6 slots for that.
Fire dragons are a trap for competitive play. Variance too high into invuls, and everything worth shooting has one. Too good a chance they bounce and just die.
The Red Hobbit wrote: I personally would recommend a Battalion since our Eldar appears to be very CP hungry, plus we've got a lot of great units in the Elite spot.
I need to work in Wraithlords, Fire Dragons, Striking Scoprions, and Dire Avengers and I'll be using all 6 slots for that.
I've never needed lots of Elites but rather Fast Attack. I currently only own 4 Elites: 1 Scorpion unit, 1 Fire Dragon unit and now my Warlock Skyrunner and WL are Elites too. Since my Farseer makes the Warlock slotless, that means I'll only ever need 3 Elites anyway.
I hear you on the CP hunger, though. Hopefully Strands of Fate mitigates that a bit
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Be careful with fast attack if you play into tau, they just die the second they touch the board.
I think that's the biggest issue with eldar non vehicle models is that tau just go "Sorry I have about 100 anti infantry indirect fire shots"
Scoundrel80 wrote: The warp spiders are completely bonkers with the upgrade that gives them 1d6 shots more when coming out of deep. 5 guys roll a staggering 12 d6 s6 ap-2 d1 shoots.
Unfortunately they don't do that, they fire d6+1 shots each with the upgrade, not 2d6.
Ulthwe seems like a no-brainer.
Im guessing AOK getting a craftworld trait will be FAQ's
Not sure how I feel about the exarch powers points. 20-30 pts seems insane.. The extra wound etc is nice. But you have to take that pts coz you have to.
Don’t have the codex yet, but poking around the app gets me stats and points, so I might be missing something key (or numbers could be off).
As I sit down to build the Autarch I got in the Omen’s box, I’m trying to think of different builds and uses of him.
We can only have 1 in a list, and a few options: Bike, Wings, and Flex. Where the bike has a few, mostly trap-looking options, Wings has none.
Power level is weird. Both datasheets are PL5, but if you want to take a movement option on the foot one, both the wings/spider pack add PL +1, so you end up paying more. But if you go by points, they are all around 100 points.
Bike:
100 points flat, with none of the options changing this.
Can swap his lance for a sword. I don’t have the relic list, but barring that this is pure trap. The lance is just better.
Swapping for a Fusion Gun seems less of a trap, but still not worth it. You get a better shooting attack, but you melee attacks are reduced to just slapping you opponents with your fists, and the gun is going to require you to be close.
If there is a relic sword, that might make it worth it. But I’ve seen the stats for the relic bike floating around, so if he’s getting a relic, that seems to be the go-to choice. The lance seems the no brainer.
Wings:
So no options (Mandiblaster, sword, fusion pistol, wings). PL 6 105 points.
Compare to the bike, you get a better gun, but not by much (and mis out on the bike’s TLcats) Sword is not as good as the lance, but the mandiblaster should get a couple MWs. Probably not enough to tip the scales. Statline not as good as the bike. Is infantry, and gets sudden assault.
Why take this loadout over the bike? I’m not seeing a lot of compelling reasons. I assume Sudden Assault is just Deep Strike, but don’t have the rules text. That seems the only real use.
Flex:
This is where all the real options come from. PL 5-6, points are 80-120
You can swap the glave for a chainsword for free. Extra attack, but crappier stats. While there might be edge cases where it’s worth it, I think 95% of the time you are going to want to keep the glave.
Basic or Banshee helm - 5 points. This seems like it might be situationally worth the points. Making someone swing last could be useful if you were piling into an existing combat, and want to make sure your guys get their hits in. If they are hanging out in the backfield, carving units off the things he’s buffing might be useful. If he can’t quite do it on his own, this might be the edge. Overwatch denial is a thing, so not bad if you are going out to chop things up.
So handing real guns to guys who hit on a 2+ seems like a good idea. Two are close range, one long. But the points could start to add up. Is it worth just keeping the pistol?
Spider Pack: 20 points/+1PL
This gives you some serious movement and mobility. Only real drawbacks are the points, the (small) chance of MW if you push it, and the Jump Pack keyword, which keeps you out of transports.
So some potential build ideas:
Foot, no helm, Glave, Reaper Launcher. 95 points. This guy is hanging out in the backfield giving buffs. While you could run him with a pistol for the ultra-cheep option, I think he can get the points back from the upgrade. While the spider pack seems a good idea, 20 points is a big ask for something you might not get a lot of use out of.
Jump, Helm, Glave, Fusion. 120 points. This is basically as tricked out as it gets. Going to get mixed into the thick of it and get some work done. Pricy, but with good offense and mobility. The question is how he compares to the bike. Unlike Wings, you have better chop/shooting than the lance. Mobility is comparable. Some perks to being infantry. If you are doing a mech list, you could drop the jump pack to save points.
Jump, Helm, Chainsword, Spinner. 115 points. This is your unit blender. Honestly doesn’t seem worth giving up the AV potential of the fusion gun, but the spinner is not bad, and slightly cheeper. If you were running mechdar, dropping the Jump Pack could save points. Hopping out of a Falcon with a 5 man squad of aspect warriors could be a good play.
These are just my rambling thoughts over coffee with partial info. What are everyone’s thoughts on how to field our Autarchs?
Basic or Banshee helm - 5 points. This seems like it might be situationally worth the points. Making someone swing last could be useful if you were piling into an existing combat, and want to make sure your guys get their hits in. If they are hanging out in the backfield, carving units off the things he’s buffing might be useful. If he can’t quite do it on his own, this might be the edge. Overwatch denial is a thing, so not bad if you are going out to chop things up.
It seems telling that the Autarch has a 5pt upgrade that's better than several DE artefacts, and the response is 'Eh, maybe skip it. Got better things to do with those points.'
Basic or Banshee helm - 5 points. This seems like it might be situationally worth the points. Making someone swing last could be useful if you were piling into an existing combat, and want to make sure your guys get their hits in. If they are hanging out in the backfield, carving units off the things he’s buffing might be useful. If he can’t quite do it on his own, this might be the edge. Overwatch denial is a thing, so not bad if you are going out to chop things up.
It seems telling that the Autarch has a 5pt upgrade that's better than several DE artefacts, and the response is 'Eh, maybe skip it. Got better things to do with those points.'
I can’t speak for DE artifacts. You could be right.
It just seems so situational. Now that overwatch is a CP, how often do we see it? Sure, if you are charging into a wall of flamers, but for the most part it’s blowing a CP hopefully to do a wound. Most people seem to have better things to do with their resources.
The fight last thing is only on the charge, so the Autach is generally swinging first anyway. It only helps vs other first strike units, or when piling into existing combats. Could be good if you are helping a tarpit of wraithblades, but again, how useful?
It’s only 5 points, and the times it might come up are non-zero. But I could also see games where it never factors in.
Basic or Banshee helm - 5 points. This seems like it might be situationally worth the points. Making someone swing last could be useful if you were piling into an existing combat, and want to make sure your guys get their hits in. If they are hanging out in the backfield, carving units off the things he’s buffing might be useful. If he can’t quite do it on his own, this might be the edge. Overwatch denial is a thing, so not bad if you are going out to chop things up.
It seems telling that the Autarch has a 5pt upgrade that's better than several DE artefacts, and the response is 'Eh, maybe skip it. Got better things to do with those points.'
I can’t speak for DE artifacts. You could be right.
It just seems so situational. Now that overwatch is a CP, how often do we see it? Sure, if you are charging into a wall of flamers, but for the most part it’s blowing a CP hopefully to do a wound. Most people seem to have better things to do with their resources.
The fight last thing is only on the charge, so the Autach is generally swinging first anyway. It only helps vs other first strike units, or when piling into existing combats. Could be good if you are helping a tarpit of wraithblades, but again, how useful?
It’s only 5 points, and the times it might come up are non-zero. But I could also see games where it never factors in.
If you're interested the Vexator Mask is an artefact that prevents overwatch (though not set to defend) and forces an enemy unit to fight last but doesn't reduce attacks like the Banshee Mask does. It also only works on a single unit - not all engaged units.
There's also a Warlord Trait that can make a unit fight last, but again only one and it doesn't do anything else at all.
In all fairness, I completely get what you're saying about the effect being fairly niche in 9th. It's just a little jarring to see an Eldar character get a 5pt upgrade that's vastly better than any equivalent Warlord Trait or Artefact the Dark Eldar possess, and it's still passed up.
However niche it might be, I still can't help but wish we got wargear that was even remotely comparable to it.
Oh, something I wanted to ask if you've got the codex - does the Autarch still have an auto-hitting Death Spinner (like the one printed for Eldritch omens), or was that amended for the actual codex?
Argive wrote: Just got my codex.. theres a lot to take in
WHat are peples stand outs ?
Ulthwe seems like a no-brainer.
Im guessing AOK getting a craftworld trait will be FAQ's
Not sure how I feel about the exarch powers points. 20-30 pts seems insane.. The extra wound etc is nice. But you have to take that pts coz you have to.
Biel-Tan looks very flexible with the min. 3 Battle Focus. I don't think the Exarch power boost is too expensive personally, they are glass cannons and many won't survive more than a round but most Exarchs have a very potent power. I'm looking forward to trying them out!
Something I've noticed is that the points costs are written out kinda wonky on some units.
WarWalkers, for example are 55ppm and start with 2 Shuricannons, however it's +5pts for Shuricannons. So that 55pts is actually with 2 Scatterlasers and the DEFAULT 2 Shuricannon WW is actually 65ppm.
Not sure why they didn't just give 2 Scatters as default
Scoundrel80 wrote: The warp spiders are completely bonkers with the upgrade that gives them 1d6 shots more when coming out of deep. 5 guys roll a staggering 12 d6 s6 ap-2 d1 shoots.
Unfortunately they don't do that, they fire d6+1 shots each with the upgrade, not 2d6.
Yeah, cool. just read that. and your definitely right. much more reasonable. I didn't understand why it was so cheap either. makes sense.
Automatically Appended Next Post: what are our general thoughts in strong stuff in the book?
What builds or archetypes do you guys see as viable?
in my single game I played sort of a jack of all trades list. I didn't explore the concepts of indirect fire, multiple prisms, wraith spam and bike heavy.
but it did do use the drop pod mechanic, Killy specialist aspects, infantry in transports, medium to heavy psychic, lots of guardians as objective holders, multilayered buffs (so complicated still), emphasis on strands and a lot of deep strike and scoring mobility (Those spiders and hawks play so well. truly amazing design now.)
The game was in a delicate balance at some point because I blundered into a armor of russ trap, but in the end it was a decisive eldar win. we played the mission the scourging (I think) from nachmund with the auspex scan mechanic.
the eldar army I posted in the above chokeheld and scored 12 primary plus did all the actions for mission specific scan and RnD for 3 turns in a row. we fought hard over that fifth central objective, and I just repelled his assaults and beat him back ultimately. thats something that was unthinkable with the old book- yeah, you could tech into something like 20 axe n shield wraithbaldes and dump them on the center, fortune, protect and say go. But that is just.. its so cheesy and rigid. Now, the elder can win a center objective with a lot of various units in several combinations. thats really great.
- I know space wolves are not super hot right now but for marines they are still decent. he ran 4 dreads and the list was scary in melee.
a few more points:
- multiple shuriken canons seem really, really good. they will be brutal vs custodes, I think. star cannons too. oh, and they absolutely destroy marines. it almost breaks my heart a little bit.
- we have to talk about the various action denial and ways to have our own guys do actions and shoot. I think this will be very good. I tapped a little bit into that, and I liked it. will of asyryan for example. Empair senses too.
- I thought about a skew list with tons of bright lances. we can get A LOT.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
"Fire dragons are a trap for competitive play. Variance too high into invuls, and everything worth shooting has one. Too good a chance they bounce and just die."
yeah, I sort of agree. my game actually has that as a headache for me. I rolled a lucky five on their first battle focus roll and got them out of the way after they dropped 2 outriders who transhumaned. I could have spent 2 cp to fire and fade them away to, but thats really steep. I did lose 1, though, as I couldn't get him out of LOS of some intercessors. the dragons then got lucky when one of those melee dreads missed a 8 inch charge with rerolls. they then popped out and killed that dread and then got whittled down through fortune and protect and were wiped two turns later and didn't kill anymore things. I think the last two guys pot shotted 2 assault intercessors.
so the six dragons cost 153 points and I spend a great deal of thought and resources (buffs, cp, strands) to keep them alive. They killed a 150 point dread, 2 outriders and a few ints. Its a tough call with these, because they are just so good to have en reserves with a falcon. it messes with your opponents plans as they just melt almost anything if you can get buffs on them and you almost always can. the threat from that alone is a thing.
all in all, im not super sold on them. on the other hand; my opponent spend resources on chasing and ultimately killing them too. Having them around was a threat. its like this; you try to force him to shoot at something every turn and get protect/fortune/lightning fast on that unit to make the shooting as bad as possible. this game it was 1. banshees 2. dragons 3. scorpions (Deeping in with the autocharge t3)
a three wave aspect assault. the beauty of it almost made me cry
but you can only fit six in. They are good though. I run 10 in a serpent. my first list idea had 30 initially : ) but I dropped it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: if you buff up strands completely, is rolling seven, keeping five (retooling x with farseers) the best you can do with all the strand related relics, WTs and other buffs I can't think of?
2 things I noticed while flipping through the dex before work.
1. Correct me if I'm wrong, but looks like vehicles get the craftworld traits. If so, that's nice as I figured it would only be infantry and bikers.
2. Prince Yriel halves the command points required for Iyanden and Corsairs units to be put in reserves. I wonder if this stacks with the Webway Gate's ability to do the same. If so that could interesting.
l0k1 wrote: 2 things I noticed while flipping through the dex before work.
1. Correct me if I'm wrong, but looks like vehicles get the craftworld traits. If so, that's nice as I figured it would only be infantry and bikers.
2. Prince Yriel halves the command points required for Iyanden and Corsairs units to be put in reserves. I wonder if this stacks with the Webway Gate's ability to do the same. If so that could interesting.
1. I had always assumed vehicles got the traits anyway. They did last edition, far as I can recall.
2. Hmm. Interesting. Though there is a limit to how much stuff you can actually put in reserves anyway. Though in bigger games it may be funny. "I have 2000 points in reserve. 1CP."
1. Yea, everything gets a Trait other than the Avatar of K
2. It says in the new Warp gate rules, it does not stack with other similar rules. But the rounding down part is Broken, 3 CP, becomes 1 CP, 5 CP, Becomes 2 CP!!
goodman111 wrote: 1. Yea, everything gets a Trait other than the Avatar of K
2. It says in the new Warp gate rules, it does not stack with other similar rules. But the rounding down part is Broken, 3 CP, becomes 1 CP, 5 CP, Becomes 2 CP!!
Where does it says AOK does not get CW trait ? He cant take relics or WL traits but I didn't see anything about about CW traits.
I have to say im impressed by the phoenix lords. Old as hell models but FINALY they get an invuln. Haven't looked at the points but asurmen seems like an absolute monster.
Basic or Banshee helm - 5 points. This seems like it might be situationally worth the points. Making someone swing last could be useful if you were piling into an existing combat, and want to make sure your guys get their hits in. If they are hanging out in the backfield, carving units off the things he’s buffing might be useful. If he can’t quite do it on his own, this might be the edge. Overwatch denial is a thing, so not bad if you are going out to chop things up.
It seems telling that the Autarch has a 5pt upgrade that's better than several DE artefacts, and the response is 'Eh, maybe skip it. Got better things to do with those points.'
Oh Vipoid... it's not the same and you know it. If you want to trade Howling Banshees for Incubi and give us transports as cheap and effective as Raiders to enable our melee units, I'd agree with you. CWE doesn't have that and it makes our little brawlers less viable in comparison, so the artefact is worth less.
You said lot in a succinct clear manner and kind thanks for that.
Now that he loses the look out sir rule, the smaller size gives him a huge advantage.
