This character has been picked from the fluff of my Chapter, the Instigators - proud 3rd Founding descendant of Dorn:
CAPTAIN RYGAN LEONARDUS...............................................200 Points
Captain of the Instigators 3rd Company
WS6 | BS5 | S4 | T4 | W3 | I5 | A3 | Ld10 | Sv2+
Unit Composition: • 1 (Unique)
Unit Type: • Infantry
WARGEAR: • Artificer armour
• Frag and krak grenades
• Master-crafted plasma pistol
• Power sword
• Iron halo
SPECIAL RULES: • And They Shall Know No Fear
• Combat Tactics
• Independent Character
• Company Tactics
• Eternal Warrior
SPECIAL RULES:
Company Tactics: Under the command of Captain Leonardus, the third company of Instigators has an honourable history of successful campaigns that has not escaped the attention of their Chapter Master. Leonardus has always stood as a stalwart and resourceful leader to inspire all.
If your army includes Rygan Leonardus, then up to two units in your army will exchange their Combat Tactics into Heroic Intervention. Company Tactics is an equivalent to Chapter Tactics special rule, thus if more than one unit in your army has Chapter Tactics rule, you must choose which version will apply.
WARGEAR:
Options: • Leonardus may replace his plasma pistol and power sword with Judgement of Galileias for +30 pts. The Judgement of Galileias is a master-crafted thunder hammer. It grants the wielder Preferred enemy (Chaos Space Marines) special rule, and all hits from it are resolved at Strength 9.
This character has been used a few times on the table, and none of the opponents have said it's overpowered... at least yet FYI: he will be the only Eternal Warrior of my characters, I tend to keep that special rule scarce, otherwise it'd look ridiculous to have 'em plenty.
...Except with Eldar... I've heard they've got EIGHT of them... <___<
No offense, but when the Chapter Masters and leaders of major chapters (ex. Azrael) do not have Eternal Warrior, why does Joe 3rd Company have it? Without even any explanation for it other than 'I want my special snowflake to be more special'.
No offense, but when the Chapter Masters and leaders of major chapters (ex. Azrael) do not have Eternal Warrior, why does Joe 3rd Company have it?
Since when the Chapters' character details had to follow such an obvious pattern?
Besides, for example, Dante doesn't have Eternal Warrior, neither does Pedro Kantor... NOR Vulkan He'stan.
The explanation is in the fluff of my Chapter. I may publish it here, should someone be interested of reading it and giving a review.
Exactly my point. Dante, Kantor and Vulkan are all way more experienced, way more powerful and way more advanced guys than, let me be frank, some 3rd Company Captain. Why exactly does he have it? Don't give me this cop-out excuse of "oh it is in my fluff which I might put out later" that's dodging the question. I don't need the whole backstory, but just a simple explanation as to why this one guy who, is pretty unremarkable as Space Marine Captains go, gets something that most Chapter Masters do not have.
curran12 wrote: Exactly my point. Dante, Kantor and Vulkan are all way more experienced, way more powerful and way more advanced guys than, let me be frank, some 3rd Company Captain. Why exactly does he have it? Don't give me this cop-out excuse of "oh it is in my fluff which I might put out later" that's dodging the question. I don't need the whole backstory, but just a simple explanation as to why this one guy who, is pretty unremarkable as Space Marine Captains go, gets something that most Chapter Masters do not have.
I fail to comprehend your logic to discard fluff in order to explain the character's equipment. But as simple as I can tell it you, is this:
The Chapter's veterans, gear, and specialists are decentralised - thus every company is responsible for their recruits, veteran wargear, and so on, so all of the companies are on the same level. There is no such thing as "veteran company", "scout company" nor "reserve company", they're all active companies - self-sufficient meta-armies. The third company has happened to partake the most decisive campaigns and gained experience beyond the other ones. In combat experience, the 1st and 4th companies come right behind the 3rd one.
But if that doesn't satisfy you as a legitimate answer... well, I can't tell it any better. And I just can't slap a post-it sticker to your forehead, in which reads: "I just made that up", for I'd be lying... and uncreative.
How did equipment enter into this? Did I miss something where he has a piece of gear giving him Eternal Warrior? All I see is just a note for Eternal Warrior, with no explanation given.
And no, that doesn't satisfy me. Space Marines are always self-sufficient, I don't see how a variation on chapter organization and doing a lot of missions suddenly makes your character immune to being obliterated by a lascannon. I guarantee you that guys like Dante have more experience than your guy, and they don't get EW.
So I'll ask again, and hopefully you can be a little more precise. What part of your fluff makes your character an eternal warrior?
curran12 wrote: I don't see how a variation on chapter organization and doing a lot of missions suddenly makes your character immune to being obliterated by a lascannon. I guarantee you that guys like Dante have more experience than your guy, and they don't get EW.
Boy, you are looking this situation with a black-and-white lens, mate.
First of all, we can agree that all Astartes are unique. Even though Cassius has become adamantine hard during the battles against Tyranids, and Lysander laughs at lascannon shots, not all highly experienced people get high toughness, Eternal Warrior, or similar that'd make him tough as steel - like Dante or Kantor. It's a chance, for which also affects the mentality and willpower of the character. Some men lose the power to live easier when mortally wounded, while some are too stubborn to die.
But even though I'd give you the answer right our from my fluff, I am having a feeling that you'd return it back too. But I stand as a patient man, and tell this to you - nice and simple:
Extensive bionics, mate, look into it. After taking enough blows and had enough bones broken and limbs torn off, they get replaced with metallic counterparts. Most of his skull and chest have been replaced with adamantine-plasteel alloy plating. You think those implants just happened to pop onto his body by rolling eyes and whistling in the Reclusiam all day long?
...And what comes to "doing a lot of missions", which "suddenly" makes characters stronger... yeah, I've yet to meet an Astartes with notably high resilience, who has only fought in practice battles and seen little to zero days of real warfare.
No offence intended - I only return fire.
I hope we're finally done here.
Tigramans, curran12's point is that your first answer to his query had nothing to do with the question. I agree with him.
He asked why your character has eternal warrior, and you answered with something unrelated about the organization of your chapter. It was quite confusing and didn't make a lot of sense.
Had you answered originally that he had extensive bionics, it would have made sense.
However, I must point out that a very healthy portion of fan-made marine characters have EW. Every person who makes such a character justifies with something like bionics/he's super tough!/he almost died but lived!/I don't want him to die in CC.
Sure, maybe the fluff for your character has him as being super tough, or extensively bionic. The argument I would make though is from a purely table-top/rules perspective. Why give him EW? The honest answer in most cases is simply that people don't want their character to die to the first power fist. Sadly, this isn't a good reason to include EW as a rule for a character. The precedence for EW is set kinda weird, but its generally limited to 1-2 marine character for codices.
I mean, Calgar, who is almost all bionic and a God of War, is T4 with no EW. Dante, who's also likely significantly replaced by machine, is still lacking EW. The overwhelming vast majority of every marine character to have every graced a 40k codex has done so without EW.
And so many of us who frequent this board to help with proposed rules often find the same mistakes repeated over and over again. EW is one of them. Your character would be fine (and cheaper) without EW, and your opponents would be more welcoming to a character that is less durable.
Every custom rule you make should be done while keeping in mind that you'll be playing it against someone, and they should find it as fun as you do. Dropping EW will help your opponent warm up to a new special character, as it can be one shotted by a missile or power fist.
Chapter Master Franco 'El Sanchez of the Southern Dynasty marines chapter
Standard chapter master profile/w artificer armor, power fist, and the Emulcifier.
Precision strike: Replace combat tactics with the following. All units that deep strike only scatter 1d6 inch's when they enter from reserves. All shooting for the first turn when they enter play counts as twin linked.
The Emulcifier is a lightning claw with a special Combi-plasma effect to it. Once per game you fire a flamer template that hits with Str7 AP2 "gets hot".
I love how people get condescending when people question their homemade character. I get it. It is your character and you don't want some jerk like me criticizing it, but when you put it up here, that's asking for criticism. And now you're getting it.
At least this time you at least gave something closer to an actual explanation. Extensive bionics is at least a reason. It isn't a terribly -good- reason, but it is a reason. It's a quick, cheap explanation as to you not wanting your special character to get chunked by the first failed invul save. Well...sorry, but I think that whole line is pretty silly. I could go into the fluff and explain how extensive bionics don't really matter all that much (as Blacksails has said, Calgar and Dante), and really, if 'extensive bionics' were really solid, then every single Warpsmith, Iron Warrior and possibly Techmarine would fall under that umbrella. So it just doesn't hold as much water as you'd like it to.
But this is a pointless back-and-forth. You're not really open to criticism or getting his rules right, and you're more interested in posting it to show how awesome your guy is, not get him balanced.
curran12 wrote: I don't see how a variation on chapter organization and doing a lot of missions suddenly makes your character immune to being obliterated by a lascannon. I guarantee you that guys like Dante have more experience than your guy, and they don't get EW.
Boy, you are looking this situation with a black-and-white lens, mate.
First of all, we can agree that all Astartes are unique. Even though Cassius has become adamantine hard during the battles against Tyranids, and Lysander laughs at lascannon shots, not all highly experienced people get high toughness, Eternal Warrior, or similar that'd make him tough as steel - like Dante or Kantor. It's a chance, for which also affects the mentality and willpower of the character. Some men lose the power to live easier when mortally wounded, while some are too stubborn to die.
But even though I'd give you the answer right our from my fluff, I am having a feeling that you'd return it back too. But I stand as a patient man, and tell this to you - nice and simple:
Extensive bionics, mate, look into it. After taking enough blows and had enough bones broken and limbs torn off, they get replaced with metallic counterparts. Most of his skull and chest have been replaced with adamantine-plasteel alloy plating. You think those implants just happened to pop onto his body by rolling eyes and whistling in the Reclusiam all day long?
...And what comes to "doing a lot of missions", which "suddenly" makes characters stronger... yeah, I've yet to meet an Astartes with notably high resilience, who has only fought in practice battles and seen little to zero days of real warfare.
No offence intended - I only return fire.
I hope we're finally done here.
Wow. You do know that if you had said "he has an insane amount of bionic augmentations, many of which perform redundant tasks so if his torso gets removed via Railgun he can still function sans torso" you wouldn't have needed to type out two essay posts.
Oh, and by the way, no Necron character has Eternal Warrior. And they are 100% bionic.
In regards to the above point - I agree, people asked why it has Eternal Warrior, and your response was 'Oh, there's a fluff justification.. but I won't tell you, so because I said so', when so, so many things don't have it.
Then you get defensive when people call you on it.
Anyway, lets do a review of this.
Tigramans wrote:This character has been picked from the fluff of my Chapter, the Instigators - proud 3rd Founding descendant of Dorn:
Spoiler:
CAPTAIN RYGAN LEONARDUS...............................................200 Points Captain of the Instigators 3rd Company
WS6 | BS5 | S4 | T4 | W3 | I5 | A3 | Ld10 | Sv2+
Unit Composition: • 1 (Unique)
Unit Type: • Infantry
WARGEAR: • Artificer armour • Frag and krak grenades • Master-crafted plasma pistol • Power sword • Iron halo
SPECIAL RULES: • And They Shall Know No Fear • Combat Tactics • Independent Character • Company Tactics • Eternal Warrior
SPECIAL RULES:
Company Tactics: Under the command of Captain Leonardus, the third company of Instigators has an honourable history of successful campaigns that has not escaped the attention of their Chapter Master. Leonardus has always stood as a stalwart and resourceful leader to inspire all. If your army includes Rygan Leonardus, then up to two units in your army will exchange their Combat Tactics into Heroic Intervention. Company Tactics is an equivalent to Chapter Tactics special rule, thus if more than one unit in your army has Chapter Tactics rule, you must choose which version will apply.
WARGEAR:
Options: • Leonardus may replace his plasma pistol and power sword with Judgement of Galileias for +30 pts. The Judgement of Galileias is a master-crafted thunder hammer. It grants the wielder Preferred enemy (Chaos Space Marines) special rule, and all hits from it are resolved at Strength 9.
This character has been used a few times on the table, and none of the opponents have said it's overpowered... at least yet FYI: he will be the only Eternal Warrior of my characters, I tend to keep that special rule scarce, otherwise it'd look ridiculous to have 'em plenty.
...Except with Eldar... I've heard they've got EIGHT of them... <___<
For the Thunder Hammer upgrade, Thunder Hammers are 25pts, +10 for Master Crafted, +5 for Preferend Enemy, +10 for +1Str, making it a 50pt weapon, replacing 30pts of gear, so should be a 20pt upgrade instead of 30.
Furthermore, as far as I can tell, this is a Codex: Space Marines character, while the Heroic Intervention rule is from Codex: Blood Angels. Therefore it would need to be listed in the characters Special Rules as it's from another book.
curran12 wrote: I don't see how a variation on chapter organization and doing a lot of missions suddenly makes your character immune to being obliterated by a lascannon. I guarantee you that guys like Dante have more experience than your guy, and they don't get EW.
Boy, you are looking this situation with a black-and-white lens, mate.
First of all, we can agree that all Astartes are unique. Even though Cassius has become adamantine hard during the battles against Tyranids, and Lysander laughs at lascannon shots, not all highly experienced people get high toughness, Eternal Warrior, or similar that'd make him tough as steel - like Dante or Kantor. It's a chance, for which also affects the mentality and willpower of the character. Some men lose the power to live easier when mortally wounded, while some are too stubborn to die.
But even though I'd give you the answer right our from my fluff, I am having a feeling that you'd return it back too. But I stand as a patient man, and tell this to you - nice and simple:
Extensive bionics, mate, look into it. After taking enough blows and had enough bones broken and limbs torn off, they get replaced with metallic counterparts. Most of his skull and chest have been replaced with adamantine-plasteel alloy plating. You think those implants just happened to pop onto his body by rolling eyes and whistling in the Reclusiam all day long?
...And what comes to "doing a lot of missions", which "suddenly" makes characters stronger... yeah, I've yet to meet an Astartes with notably high resilience, who has only fought in practice battles and seen little to zero days of real warfare.
No offence intended - I only return fire.
I hope we're finally done here.
Put this in context. You are talking about the background of a fictional, homemade character in a fictional game in a non-existent universe. Please put it in perspective!
Ovion wrote: In regards to the above point - I agree, people asked why it has Eternal Warrior, and your response was 'Oh, there's a fluff justification.. but I won't tell you, so because I said so', when so, so many things don't have it.
Then you get defensive when people call you on it.
Anyway, lets do a review of this.
Tigramans wrote:This character has been picked from the fluff of my Chapter, the Instigators - proud 3rd Founding descendant of Dorn:
Spoiler:
CAPTAIN RYGAN LEONARDUS...............................................200 Points
Captain of the Instigators 3rd Company
WS6 | BS5 | S4 | T4 | W3 | I5 | A3 | Ld10 | Sv2+
Unit Composition: • 1 (Unique)
Unit Type: • Infantry
WARGEAR: • Artificer armour
• Frag and krak grenades
• Master-crafted plasma pistol
• Power sword
• Iron halo
SPECIAL RULES: • And They Shall Know No Fear
• Combat Tactics
• Independent Character
• Company Tactics
• Eternal Warrior
SPECIAL RULES:
Company Tactics: Under the command of Captain Leonardus, the third company of Instigators has an honourable history of successful campaigns that has not escaped the attention of their Chapter Master. Leonardus has always stood as a stalwart and resourceful leader to inspire all.
If your army includes Rygan Leonardus, then up to two units in your army will exchange their Combat Tactics into Heroic Intervention. Company Tactics is an equivalent to Chapter Tactics special rule, thus if more than one unit in your army has Chapter Tactics rule, you must choose which version will apply.
WARGEAR:
Options: • Leonardus may replace his plasma pistol and power sword with Judgement of Galileias for +30 pts. The Judgement of Galileias is a master-crafted thunder hammer. It grants the wielder Preferred enemy (Chaos Space Marines) special rule, and all hits from it are resolved at Strength 9.
This character has been used a few times on the table, and none of the opponents have said it's overpowered... at least yet FYI: he will be the only Eternal Warrior of my characters, I tend to keep that special rule scarce, otherwise it'd look ridiculous to have 'em plenty.
...Except with Eldar... I've heard they've got EIGHT of them... <___<
For the Thunder Hammer upgrade, Thunder Hammers are 25pts, +10 for Master Crafted, +5 for Preferend Enemy, +10 for +1Str, making it a 50pt weapon, replacing 30pts of gear, so should be a 20pt upgrade instead of 30.
Furthermore, as far as I can tell, this is a Codex: Space Marines character, while the Heroic Intervention rule is from Codex: Blood Angels. Therefore it would need to be listed in the characters Special Rules as it's from another book.
Forgive me if wrong but I believe Vanguard Veterans Actually have Heroic Intervention as well (or perhaps I am mixing it up?)
Blacksails wrote: Tigramans, curran12's point is that your first answer to his query had nothing to do with the question. I agree with him.
He asked why your character has eternal warrior, and you answered with something unrelated about the organization of your chapter. It was quite confusing and didn't make a lot of sense.
Had you answered originally that he had extensive bionics, it would have made sense.
However, I must point out that a very healthy portion of fan-made marine characters have EW. Every person who makes such a character justifies with something like bionics/he's super tough!/he almost died but lived!/I don't want him to die in CC.
Sure, maybe the fluff for your character has him as being super tough, or extensively bionic. The argument I would make though is from a purely table-top/rules perspective. Why give him EW? The honest answer in most cases is simply that people don't want their character to die to the first power fist. Sadly, this isn't a good reason to include EW as a rule for a character. The precedence for EW is set kinda weird, but its generally limited to 1-2 marine character for codices.
I mean, Calgar, who is almost all bionic and a God of War, is T4 with no EW. Dante, who's also likely significantly replaced by machine, is still lacking EW. The overwhelming vast majority of every marine character to have every graced a 40k codex has done so without EW.
And so many of us who frequent this board to help with proposed rules often find the same mistakes repeated over and over again. EW is one of them. Your character would be fine (and cheaper) without EW, and your opponents would be more welcoming to a character that is less durable.
Every custom rule you make should be done while keeping in mind that you'll be playing it against someone, and they should find it as fun as you do. Dropping EW will help your opponent warm up to a new special character, as it can be one shotted by a missile or power fist.
Maybe I should have also mentioned how it was about balance issues - that character is the only EW of the bunch. Not only from fluff perspective, but also crunch-wise, I wished to create a durable all-rounder character, that doesn't get humiliated by newer codex tricks too easily to even out the situation. It appears that it's an incorrect approach, according to this community.
I have empathy upon your hatred about "a very healthy portion of fan-made marine characters" that have have EW, and understand it. However, I didn't expect such aggressive responses - but that's all about getting accustomed to, since I am still quite new here. My first reaction was, that "gee, people are really butthurt about a single EW, I wonder why."
Now I know why.
And I apologise for running around the real answer; I understood that your questions would lead to responses, such as: "Yeah, that's why it's OP. Get out."
But what comes to Calgar, he DOES have EW.
But now, let me give you a question: What would you replace the EW rule with, or would you simply remove it?
Commander Duskblade
Not every scion of the ferocious Brightsword lineage are given the honor of donning the original battlesuit of their progenitor. Nonetheless, they are all equally belligerent and thirsty for battle. Known for his brutal close-quarter assaults, Duskblade was given one of the few Iridium battlesuit brought to the Enclaves with fellow commander partner Torchstar. It has proven vital in the many combats he has been in with his line's specially commissioned experimental weapons.
Custom Fusion Blades are treated as regular Fusion Blades except they replace the Power Outage rule with Power Shortage. Before rolling for hits with the weapon in melee, roll a d6. On a 1, they count as a normal ccw for that assault phase.
Blacksails wrote: Tigramans, curran12's point is that your first answer to his query had nothing to do with the question. I agree with him.
He asked why your character has eternal warrior, and you answered with something unrelated about the organization of your chapter. It was quite confusing and didn't make a lot of sense.
Had you answered originally that he had extensive bionics, it would have made sense.
However, I must point out that a very healthy portion of fan-made marine characters have EW. Every person who makes such a character justifies with something like bionics/he's super tough!/he almost died but lived!/I don't want him to die in CC.
Sure, maybe the fluff for your character has him as being super tough, or extensively bionic. The argument I would make though is from a purely table-top/rules perspective. Why give him EW? The honest answer in most cases is simply that people don't want their character to die to the first power fist. Sadly, this isn't a good reason to include EW as a rule for a character. The precedence for EW is set kinda weird, but its generally limited to 1-2 marine character for codices.
I mean, Calgar, who is almost all bionic and a God of War, is T4 with no EW. Dante, who's also likely significantly replaced by machine, is still lacking EW. The overwhelming vast majority of every marine character to have every graced a 40k codex has done so without EW.
And so many of us who frequent this board to help with proposed rules often find the same mistakes repeated over and over again. EW is one of them. Your character would be fine (and cheaper) without EW, and your opponents would be more welcoming to a character that is less durable.
Every custom rule you make should be done while keeping in mind that you'll be playing it against someone, and they should find it as fun as you do. Dropping EW will help your opponent warm up to a new special character, as it can be one shotted by a missile or power fist.
Maybe I should have also mentioned how it was about balance issues - that character is the only EW of the bunch. Not only from fluff perspective, but also crunch-wise, I wished to create a durable all-rounder character, that doesn't get humiliated by newer codex tricks too easily to even out the situation. It appears that it's an incorrect approach, according to this community.
I have empathy upon your hatred about "a very healthy portion of fan-made marine characters" that have have EW, and understand it. However, I didn't expect such aggressive responses - but that's all about getting accustomed to, since I am still quite new here. My first reaction was, that "gee, people are really butthurt about a single EW, I wonder why."
Now I know why.
And I apologise for running around the real answer; I understood that your questions would lead to responses, such as: "Yeah, that's why it's OP. Get out."
But what comes to Calgar, he DOES have EW.
But now, let me give you a question: What would you replace the EW rule with, or would you simply remove it?
Perhaps enhanced toughness? Forgive me if wrong but isn't there some form of bionics that increases toughness? Whilst T5 has some drawbacks, still killed by S10, you get a high invuln save and S10 shots tend to either be a one shot (or one blast) or are on MC/mechas that will often have to give up all but 3 attacks to hit you with. WS's wonky 3+ (and a WS of 6 tying with certain MCLoC) meaning some hit on a 4+ likely failing 1-2 and then the (let us assume 2 make it) 2 wounds you roll 2 invulns with a half chance of surviving. Gives you a way to show your guy is a tough dude that even laughs at lasgun fire whilst avoiding the stigma of eternal warrior (drawback being majority toughness but then again challenges help change that up). If this is a bad idea, I apologize. Whilst I've been thinking of making my own unique characters for IG, CSM, and SM as I've made DIY chapters, I haven't been confident in my balancing abilities to actually begin the process and am relatively novice at trying to balance the model.
Perhaps enhanced toughness? Forgive me if wrong but isn't there some form of bionics that increases toughness? Whilst T5 has some drawbacks, still killed by S10, you get a high invuln save and S10 shots tend to either be a one shot (or one blast) or are on MC/mechas that will often have to give up all but 3 attacks to hit you with. WS's wonky 3+ (and a WS of 6 tying with certain MCLoC) meaning some hit on a 4+ likely failing 1-2 and then the (let us assume 2 make it) 2 wounds you roll 2 invulns with a half chance of surviving. Gives you a way to show your guy is a tough dude that even laughs at lasgun fire whilst avoiding the stigma of eternal warrior (drawback being majority toughness but then again challenges help change that up). If this is a bad idea, I apologize. Whilst I've been thinking of making my own unique characters for IG, CSM, and SM as I've made DIY chapters, I haven't been confident in my balancing abilities to actually begin the process and am relatively novice at trying to balance the model.
This sounds an interesting concept. But that raises another question to my mind: would Toughness 6 be too much? If yes, then have a look at Chaplain Cassius, for example. That HQ has a combi-weapon with hellfire rounds, and Feel No Pain. AND he costs ONLY 125 points? WTF? I'd have paid at least 175-200 points for such an insane beast! MEQ's will wound him on 6+, and he's not impressed by the lascannon fire, as he can easily work as a damage sponge for the blender squad that's following him. Point taken, he hits like any other chaplain, and wounds like any other chaplain, but TOUGHNESS 6 makes him nigh-invulnerable, and his only weakness is anything bearing the Instant Death special rule, which is a scarce sight on the table. This Toughness 6 is like the poor man's EW.
Toughness 5 sounds reasonable. I have to remember that.
And what comes to creating your own characters, I also struggle with balancing issues, but I'd also like to keep the characters survivable enough to keep on with the brand new "ahead of their time" codices, like Tau or Eldar, which power level is WAY higher than the Vanilla Marines'...
I have confidence to show my ideas and see what people think of them. Deserved or not, I received answers. Yours, by far, sounds the friendliest. I wished for a civilised, mature, non-insulting discussion - but looks like it's too much to demand from the community.
I thank you from your response.
Blacksails wrote: Tigramans, curran12's point is that your first answer to his query had nothing to do with the question. I agree with him.
He asked why your character has eternal warrior, and you answered with something unrelated about the organization of your chapter. It was quite confusing and didn't make a lot of sense.
Had you answered originally that he had extensive bionics, it would have made sense.
However, I must point out that a very healthy portion of fan-made marine characters have EW. Every person who makes such a character justifies with something like bionics/he's super tough!/he almost died but lived!/I don't want him to die in CC.
Sure, maybe the fluff for your character has him as being super tough, or extensively bionic. The argument I would make though is from a purely table-top/rules perspective. Why give him EW? The honest answer in most cases is simply that people don't want their character to die to the first power fist. Sadly, this isn't a good reason to include EW as a rule for a character. The precedence for EW is set kinda weird, but its generally limited to 1-2 marine character for codices.
I mean, Calgar, who is almost all bionic and a God of War, is T4 with no EW. Dante, who's also likely significantly replaced by machine, is still lacking EW. The overwhelming vast majority of every marine character to have every graced a 40k codex has done so without EW.
And so many of us who frequent this board to help with proposed rules often find the same mistakes repeated over and over again. EW is one of them. Your character would be fine (and cheaper) without EW, and your opponents would be more welcoming to a character that is less durable.
Every custom rule you make should be done while keeping in mind that you'll be playing it against someone, and they should find it as fun as you do. Dropping EW will help your opponent warm up to a new special character, as it can be one shotted by a missile or power fist.
Maybe I should have also mentioned how it was about balance issues - that character is the only EW of the bunch. Not only from fluff perspective, but also crunch-wise, I wished to create a durable all-rounder character, that doesn't get humiliated by newer codex tricks too easily to even out the situation. It appears that it's an incorrect approach, according to this community.
I have empathy upon your hatred about "a very healthy portion of fan-made marine characters" that have have EW, and understand it. However, I didn't expect such aggressive responses - but that's all about getting accustomed to, since I am still quite new here. My first reaction was, that "gee, people are really butthurt about a single EW, I wonder why."
Now I know why.
And I apologise for running around the real answer; I understood that your questions would lead to responses, such as: "Yeah, that's why it's OP. Get out."
But what comes to Calgar, he DOES have EW.
But now, let me give you a question: What would you replace the EW rule with, or would you simply remove it?
You're right, people like myself and curran12 are just 'butthurt', 'overly aggressive' and want you to simply 'get out'.
Please, my response to you was beyond civil, and I'm trying to help you understand how to create fun and balanced characters that don't involve slathering EW and a dozen special rules.
This community is filled with a lot of people with a lot of experience that genuinely tries and help people understand how to balance things properly and keep OP units in check. Not for our benefit; we're never gonna play against you or your creations. We do it so you don't roll up to your shop with a laughably OP character and have a terrible game where your opponent is miserable about an OP marine character.
The problem a lot of us face is that the moment we point out someone should drop a rule or piece of wargear or modify something, nearly everyone immediately becomes defensive and starts calling names, or other such nonsense. In your case, its calling us butthurt, overly aggressive, and making yourself out to be the victim.
You're more than welcome to do this, but understand that feedback like mine was polite, well explained and reasoned. If you can't deal with feedback like this in a reasonable manner without using the words 'butthurt' in your response, I suggest maybe this forum isn't for you. The feedback doesn't have to 'positive' (no one has to like it, necessarily), but as long as its constructive and people aren't making an ass of themselves, its welcome on this board.
Also, Calgar does have EW. I must have had him confused with some other Ultra character. My apologies.
Anyways, as for your other reason about balance between your other characters. Remember that your opponents won't care if he's the only guy with EW; as they'll likely only be playing against one your characters at a time. Frankly, EW is one of those rules where only a tiny fraction of characters should ever have it. It should be exceedingly rare for a custom character to have it, as most custom characters should be rather simple variations of the SM Captain with one or two cool rules that fluff out your chapter.
You're certainly free to ignore us, but understand that EW is not a special rule you just slap on because why not. Imagine facing someone's Ork army with an EW Warboss with a few special tricks (think Ghazzy but cheaper and without the 2++ for a turn). It'd probably get old really quick.
If you switched Eternal Warrior for something like 'Extensive Bionics' that grants +1T bringing him to T5, that'd be fine, give the extra defence stated above (making him only vulnerable to Str10 and Instant Death weapons).
In that case, you could drop the cost from 220 to 195. (or call it 200 like you initially had) Which would make him 215 (220) with the Hammer.
Just because it is not feedback you like to see, Tiger, doesn't make it unfriendly. I don't waste time giving "A+ for effort" or meaningless praise where it is not due. It's too bad that you are unwilling to face that without copping such a confrontational attitude. Here's some food for thought; if I was being unfriendly, why am I taking this much time to give you a researched explanation?
I like the constructive process, but I dislike those who see criticism as some kind of personal attack. If all you wanted was your character to be praised, this is not the place for it. Check your ego at the door, and lose the aggressive tactics.
You're right, people like myself and curran12 are just 'butthurt', 'overly aggressive' and want you to simply 'get out'.
Please, my response to you was beyond civil, and I'm trying to help you understand how to create fun and balanced characters that don't involve slathering EW and a dozen special rules.
This community is filled with a lot of people with a lot of experience that genuinely tries and help people understand how to balance things properly and keep OP units in check. Not for our benefit; we're never gonna play against you or your creations. We do it so you don't roll up to your shop with a laughably OP character and have a terrible game where your opponent is miserable about an OP marine character.
The problem a lot of us face is that the moment we point out someone should drop a rule or piece of wargear or modify something, nearly everyone immediately becomes defensive and starts calling names, or other such nonsense. In your case, its calling us butthurt, overly aggressive, and making yourself out to be the victim.
You're more than welcome to do this, but understand that feedback like mine was polite, well explained and reasoned. If you can't deal with feedback like this in a reasonable manner without using the words 'butthurt' in your response, I suggest maybe this forum isn't for you. The feedback doesn't have to 'positive' (no one has to like it, necessarily), but as long as its constructive and people aren't making an ass of themselves, its welcome on this board.
Also, Calgar does have EW. I must have had him confused with some other Ultra character. My apologies.
Anyways, as for your other reason about balance between your other characters. Remember that your opponents won't care if he's the only guy with EW; as they'll likely only be playing against one your characters at a time. Frankly, EW is one of those rules where only a tiny fraction of characters should ever have it. It should be exceedingly rare for a custom character to have it, as most custom characters should be rather simple variations of the SM Captain with one or two cool rules that fluff out your chapter.
You're certainly free to ignore us, but understand that EW is not a special rule you just slap on because why not. Imagine facing someone's Ork army with an EW Warboss with a few special tricks (think Ghazzy but cheaper and without the 2++ for a turn). It'd probably get old really quick.
What I've read other codices (and even the newest ones, like Eldar), writers have recently - contrary to the claims of trying to drop the amount of EW rules off the characters, the Eldar have gained a bunch of them...
Your comment truly was polite, I had no problems with it at all. Curran12 just rushed through my mental barriers beyond expectations (and I lost my Fearless special rule ).
I didn't have in mind to create a cheesy character, our mileage simply varied, as we valued that special rule in a different scale. I shall definetely change it to +1T.
I can't be that heartless that I'd ignore people. It's just a matter of time, when I "blend in" to the crew. It's all about getting used to the local culture, as they vary a lot - especially on the international level.
It is said, that you are allowed to make mistakes, but not repeat them. I've learned from them, and now I am a wiser guy.
On the other hand, I don't want to see complimentary praising NOR discouraging bashing - all I wish is constructively neutral, careful and polite discussion.
curran12 wrote: Just because it is not feedback you like to see, Tiger, doesn't make it unfriendly. I don't waste time giving "A+ for effort" or meaningless praise where it is not due. It's too bad that you are unwilling to face that without copping such a confrontational attitude. Here's some food for thought; if I was being unfriendly, why am I taking this much time to give you a researched explanation?
I like the constructive process, but I dislike those who see criticism as some kind of personal attack. If all you wanted was your character to be praised, this is not the place for it. Check your ego at the door, and lose the aggressive tactics.
It is most possible that your choice of words turned my defences on, and that blame's on me - I have a little trauma on forum experiences around the internet... which has turned me defensive. I'll do my best to get over it.
Your criticism is accepted, but it still has a certain aggressive tone to it. You could have said things nicer - without being rude.
That might also be that I don't know you, and I don't trust you - neither I trust anyone around here. I don't know anyone yet, for the Emperor's sake, that's why these kind of misinterpretations occur.
No hard feelings - honestly.
I can only thank you for opening my eyes a bit - and apologise once again.
...And it's Tigra, not "tiger"
[EDIT: A good example of a constructive response in a neutral tone - and right into the point:]
Ovion wrote: If you switched Eternal Warrior for something like 'Extensive Bionics' that grants +1T bringing him to T5, that'd be fine, give the extra defence stated above (making him only vulnerable to Str10 and Instant Death weapons).
In that case, you could drop the cost from 220 to 195. (or call it 200 like you initially had)
Which would make him 215 (220) with the Hammer.
Phoenix Lord Zandros, The bladed Hurricane. 240pts?
Ws8
Bs8
S4
T4
W3
I8
A4
Ld10
Save 2+
For the record, bump in stats aren't because this phoenix lord is better then the others. Its because I think all phoenix lords should have this stat line. They should be better in combat then a lowly Archon and at least match an assassin.
Wargear. Phoenix armour, plasma grenades,
Remnants of glory
Slicing Orbs of Zandros. Ancient, battered silver orbs are inset into the phoenix lords amour. When battle calls these orbs, beckoned by Zandros's psykic stimuli, begin to orbit Zandros akin to a small moon. Zandros then orders the orbs to fly amongst the seething masses of interlopers and then they explode in a scintillating flash of blades which leaves enemies in bloody chunks.
Range18 Str 5 Ap -assault 2,blast, pinning, rending.
or Range Melee, Strength +1, Ap -, rending, Bladed rotation*
* Zandros inflicts an automatic hit on any enemy model in base contact with him, as well as making his normal attacks.
Warlord traint: Mark of the incomparable hunter
Special Rules:
Ancient doom, battle focus, Eternal warrior, Fearless, Fear, Fleet, Independent character, Psyker (mastery level 2), SoulFire.
SoulFire.Every phoenix lord's armour invariably contains the souls of thousands of powerful exarchs, each spirit coalesced into the greater spirit of the armour much akin to a miniature infinity circuit. This gives the phoenix lord a deep well of psykic power to draw upon with surrounds the Lords warp shadow in blazing soulfire which absorbs and reflects foul Magiks,
The phoenix lord has the Adamantium Will USR and for each successful deny the witch attempted rolled by the phoenix lord the psyker that attempted the power must take a blinding test, as well as any enemy daemons or psykers within 6 inches.
Can only choose powers on the telekinesis table.
Exarch Powers
Fast shot, Course of blades*
Grants a 4+ cover save to Exarch against any weapon blow strength 8, by way of the mystical orbs blocking the blow or obscuring the target.
The Aspect has been mentioned a few times and I think they deserve a phoenix lord. I imagine the aspect to use there psykic powers to levitate bladed spinning orbs to throw at the enemy of use in combat. I figured that 3 small blasts at AP - wont be OP, and his melee is decidedly worse then all the other lords, but the real difference is the level 2 psyker, of a fairly mediocre table, but its still a big difference. I think all phoenix lords should get SoulFire and Fear because of there towering psykic presence. Each eldar soul is a psyker, and a phoenix lord is made up of thousands of them.
Not entirely sure on the price though, maybe someone could help me out?
What I've read other codices (and even the newest ones, like Eldar), writers have recently - contrary to the claims of trying to drop the amount of EW rules off the characters, the Eldar have gained a bunch of them...
Your comment truly was polite, I had no problems with it at all. Curran12 just rushed through my mental barriers beyond expectations (and I lost my Fearless special rule ).
I didn't have in mind to create a cheesy character, our mileage simply varied, as we valued that special rule in a different scale. I shall definetely change it to +1T.
I can't be that heartless that I'd ignore people. It's just a matter of time, when I "blend in" to the crew. It's all about getting used to the local culture, as they vary a lot - especially on the international level.
It is said, that you are allowed to make mistakes, but not repeat them. I've learned from them, and now I am a wiser guy.
On the other hand, I don't want to see complimentary praising NOR discouraging bashing - all I wish is constructively neutral, careful and polite discussion.
Well I appreciate your understanding; people like myself and Curran12 don't post long and reasoned arguments because we want to make you feel like a horrible, worthless individual. We do it because it helps you understand for future characters/units. Granted, not everyone will sugarcoat feedback, and quite often users here will just be blunt about it and state what's wrong, why, and likely how to fix it. Then again, it is the internet, and it is a text format, so emotions and subtle nuances of speech don't translate well sometimes.
No one's asking you to 'blend in' either. All of us who frequent this board have distinct styles and think differently.
Now for the technical part of my poast.
If its of any help, only one character in C:CSM has EW, and he's the big guy; Abaddon. Surprisingly, no one in the DA book have EW. The Eldar have a selection of EW characters, certainly, but they were like that in the last book too. Its been well established fluff that Phoenix Lords can never truly be killed, something like their spirits live on in their armour and lend their experience to the new 'version' of them...or something. Anyways, point is, only the Phoenix Lords have EW, and they used to be represented as a condensed HQ choice in the 4th ed book.
So really, EW is still as rare as its ever been. Now, I'd always rather see something like FnP instead of EW to represent some sort of super durability. I'm always skeptical of T5, but if its just T5 with no other special rules or other stat line changes, it should be reasonable. Makes you more resilient against standard weapons, but an Ork Nob or Boss on the charge still has the chance to krump you real good. Or ID weapons.
List under his special rules something like "More machine than man - Buddy keeps forgetting to wear his helmet and has consequently had his cranium restructured several times, always avoiding death. His extensive bionics grant him an additional point of toughness, included in his profile.
Just to be clear, his heroic intervention rule only applies to jump pack infantry; like ASM or Vanguard vets, correct?
Correction: Sammael has! The Adamantine Mantle gives him an EW special rule.
Blacksails wrote: The Eldar have a selection of EW characters, certainly, but they were like that in the last book too. Its been well established fluff that Phoenix Lords can never truly be killed, something like their spirits live on in their armour and lend their experience to the new 'version' of them...or something. Anyways, point is, only the Phoenix Lords have EW, and they used to be represented as a condensed HQ choice in the 4th ed book.
Allright, now I understand why they all have that.
Blacksails wrote: I'm always skeptical of T5, but if its just T5 with no other special rules or other stat line changes, it should be reasonable. Makes you more resilient against standard weapons, but an Ork Nob or Boss on the charge still has the chance to krump you real good. Or ID weapons.
That's my intention. See my earlier post, I'm going to replace his EW with T5... and possibly increase his special hammer cost into 30-40 points.
Blacksails wrote: Just to be clear, his heroic intervention rule only applies to jump pack infantry; like ASM or Vanguard vets, correct?
His Heroic Intervention special rule was meant to apply ANY two units the player chooses - as long as they've got the Combat Tactics rule. Should this also sound ridiculous, I can change it too - like reduce it to a single unit... or revamp the rule completely.
Blacksails wrote: My question about heroic intervention is that is states that when a jump pack equipped unit arrives via deepstrike they may assault.
Which leads me to believe that it only applies to jump pack units, which also makes sense for who could apply to.
You're absolutely right. Maybe I should describe the special rule differently, such as:
"Up to two units are allowed to exchange their Combat Tactics into Company Tactics special rule. Units with this rule are allowed to declare an assault during the same turn they've arrived from deep strike instead of shooting or running. The unit cannot declare an assault if an independent character has joined them. Company Tactics is an equivalent to Chapter Tactics special rule, thus if more than one unit in your army has Chapter Tactics rule, you must choose which version will apply."
Blacksails wrote: My question about heroic intervention is that is states that when a jump pack equipped unit arrives via deepstrike they may assault.
Which leads me to believe that it only applies to jump pack units, which also makes sense for who could apply to.
You're absolutely right. Maybe I should describe the special rule differently, such as:
"Up to two units are allowed to exchange their Combat Tactics into Company Tactics special rule. Units with this rule are allowed to declare an assault during the same turn they've arrived from deep strike instead of shooting or running. The unit cannot declare an assault if an independent character has joined them. Company Tactics is an equivalent to Chapter Tactics special rule, thus if more than one unit in your army has Chapter Tactics rule, you must choose which version will apply."
So just to clarify, this would include terminators, correct?
Blacksails wrote: So just to clarify, this would include terminators, correct?
Yes, you are right.
As I thought. Its obviously a powerful ability, seeing as TH/SS termies are still pretty excellent even in 6th (mainly due to the power weapon nerf helping 2+), so I'd personally up the cost of your character considering that. I don't know to how much, as there's nothing really set in stone about it, but maybe another 10pts would make your opponents feel more comfortable.
Blacksails wrote: As I thought. Its obviously a powerful ability, seeing as TH/SS termies are still pretty excellent even in 6th (mainly due to the power weapon nerf helping 2+), so I'd personally up the cost of your character considering that. I don't know to how much, as there's nothing really set in stone about it, but maybe another 10pts would make your opponents feel more comfortable.
Blacksails wrote: As I thought. Its obviously a powerful ability, seeing as TH/SS termies are still pretty excellent even in 6th (mainly due to the power weapon nerf helping 2+), so I'd personally up the cost of your character considering that. I don't know to how much, as there's nothing really set in stone about it, but maybe another 10pts would make your opponents feel more comfortable.
And no worries about it. Kinda late to the party, but eh. No hard feelings, but when I post here I'm in an analytical and critical mood. A good rule of thumb, at least for me, is that if I am engaging with you, I'm doing what I can to help. But no sweat.
Now for your character, I see I'm getting into the middle of the conversation about his Chapter Tactics and I had similar questions to Blacksails. My question for you is what happens to other squads that you do not give the assault buff to? Do they keep their usual Chapter Tactics, or are they gone?
curran12 wrote: I see I'm getting into the middle of the conversation about his Chapter Tactics and I had similar questions to Blacksails. My question for you is what happens to other squads that you do not give the assault buff to? Do they keep their usual Chapter Tactics, or are they gone?
The units which aren't chosen to replace their Combat Tactics, will keep it as normal. The only ones affected by the change are the two units.
I see. In that instance, I would cost it pretty high, as you get the best of both worlds. If I recall correctly (and I very well could be wrong, since I have never played as Codex marines), but doesn't a character's own tactics completely replace combat tactics for all squads? With your arrangement, your deep striking assault squads get their rule, and your non-assaulters keep their relatively useful Combat Tactics.
Nassir Amit, First Chapter Master of the Flesh Tearers – The Flesh Tearer (Codex: BAHQ)
WS:7 – BS:5 – S:4 – T:4 – W:3 – I:6 – A:4 – LD:10
Equipment: Terminator Armor, Iron Halo, Teleporting Homer
The Tearers(Needs better name xD): The Tearers are Amit’s two cherished Chain Fists.
The Tearers: (Amit carries 2 of these, so he gets +1 Attack. He can also use the shooting profile for both The Tearers as if they were pistols)
S: x2 – AP:2 – (Armourbane, Rending)
Shooting Profile: R:24 – S:4 – AP:4 (Assault 2)
Special Rules: Fearless, Fear, Adamantium Will, Rage
Scarred Veterans: Amit and his unit automatically fall to the Red Thirst.
RIP AND TEAR(Again, needs better name): Tactical Squads in a force containing Amit can take combat knives at 1 ppm.
I was thinking maybe 240~
Thoughts?
Lucarikx
So...he kicks out 6 S9 AP2 Armorbane Rending attacks on the charge? At Initiative order?
And really? Rending on those? This just reeks of "I want ALL the rules!" even though in this case, Rending does NOTHING for this character (he is already AP2 and he has Armorbane). You need to lay off of the crazy overapplication of rules.
So, would you suggest something else instead? I'd like to use/create rules that are unique, or at least not-so-popular. I was also thinking of this another character - the Chapter Master - that would army-wide replace Combat Tactics with either Fearless, Rampage, or both.
[OOPS! Accidental double-post! I clicked the Submit button ONCE, and it cloned my comment!]
Tigramans wrote: So, would you suggest something else instead? I'd like to use/create rules that are unique, or at least not-so-popular. I was also thinking of this another character - the Chapter Master - that would army-wide replace Combat Tactics with either Fearless, Rampage, or both.
[OOPS! Accidental double-post! I clicked the Submit button ONCE, and it cloned my comment!]
Well, I think in the case of Combat Tactics, the trick is to find something that every unit can theoretically use, but is not something that can really blow the game wide open. With your current arrangement, if I was using the character, I would take him, two massive squads of TH/SS terminators and just watch the world burn as I drop 20 terminators on my opponent who can assault right out of the gate.
If I remember right, you described your character as a sort of all-rounder, correct? In that case, his rule should reflect the overall versatility of his tactics. Furious Charge fits a more assault-oriented role nicely. Or possibly re-rolls to sweep/consolidate. Stuff like that would be more fitting, and a less smashing to the game.
My apologies for going a bit OT but are there any tips on how to make a good/not OTT character (general things to stay away from)?
Also I'd recommend curran's opinion of swapping it for something like re-rolling sweeps or furious charges. It seems like your army leans on termies so this gives a boon to their effectivness whilst not being as over-the-top good as two deepstriking termies auto-ccing when few other things can even think of the notion and often cost so much they are rarely if ever played.
StarTrotter wrote: My apologies for going a bit OT but are there any tips on how to make a good/not OTT character (general things to stay away from)?
Also I'd recommend curran's opinion of swapping it for something like re-rolling sweeps or furious charges. It seems like your army leans on termies so this gives a boon to their effectivness whilst not being as over-the-top good as two deepstriking termies auto-ccing when few other things can even think of the notion and often cost so much they are rarely if ever played.
Blacksails' abbreviated guide to making custom units that don't suck
Do: Have a cool idea for a unique unit that fills a role not provided by something that already exists in your codex.
Don't: Take something that already exists, make it unquestionably better, and just slap on some extra points. Points cost does not create balance.
Do: Make something with legitimate drawbacks if its significantly better than similar units. Increase in points is not a drawback on its own. Something truly gimping.
Don't: Base your units on a clearly overpowered unit as a justification to create a similarly overpowered unit. This was exemplified by every GK player creating their own 'Dragos' because...well, Drago.
Do: Keep it simple.
Don't: Slather your unit with a dozen special rules and pieces of wargear. For marine characters, this generally involves have no more than three special 'things', be they wargear items or special rules.
Do: Keep it simple. Seriously. When I mean simple, I mean a relatively new 12-year old to the game should remember the rules of your character after the first match.
Seriously. Simplicity is your ally, subtlety your friend.
Don't: Create some absurd fluff that does not fit with anything as a justification to take a Grey Knights Bane Blade or Chaos Sister of Battle. Just don't. You're not creative or original when you do it.
Do: Take criticism well. It may be harsh, it may be blunt, but if you post, accept the results.
Don't: Get defensive. Do not call people names, don't play the victim. Man up, take the critique like a grown adult who can set aside emotions to understand clear thinking. If you post it, accept it.
Do: Keep it simple. I can't emphasize this enough.
Don't: Go overboard with making up rules for everything. Most things you want can be represented by clever usage of existing units, especially marines! Your chapter is not some super special snowflake chapter that single-handedly saved Terra.
Do: Use logical pre-existing templates and math your units accordingly. We are not here to hand out pts for you. Do your research, read posts around here, learn our methods and apply them. We'll help fine tune.
Don't: Assume you know more than anyone on this board. Everyone here makes mistakes, even you.
Do: Remember these units will be played only in friendly games with friends; their primary purpose should serve to fill a unique fluff role in your army, and should generally be UNDERPOWERED before it errs on the side of even balance.
Don't: Be absurd. Just pause before you add that extra ability or piece of wargear.
Do: Have fun. Most of these rules are designed for fluff reasons. So have fun fluffing out your chapter/warband/regiment/kabal/whatever.
Just, be reasonable. Do research.
And I do mean abbreviated. I could write a lengthy article filled with good and bad examples for every one of those points and some I forgot about.
StarTrotter wrote: My apologies for going a bit OT but are there any tips on how to make a good/not OTT character (general things to stay away from)?
Also I'd recommend curran's opinion of swapping it for something like re-rolling sweeps or furious charges. It seems like your army leans on termies so this gives a boon to their effectivness whilst not being as over-the-top good as two deepstriking termies auto-ccing when few other things can even think of the notion and often cost so much they are rarely if ever played.
Blacksails' abbreviated guide to making custom units that don't suck
Do: Have a cool idea for a unique unit that fills a role not provided by something that already exists in your codex.
Don't: Take something that already exists, make it unquestionably better, and just slap on some extra points. Points cost does not create balance.
Do: Make something with legitimate drawbacks if its significantly better than similar units. Increase in points is not a drawback on its own. Something truly gimping.
Don't: Base your units on a clearly overpowered unit as a justification to create a similarly overpowered unit. This was exemplified by every GK player creating their own 'Dragos' because...well, Drago.
Do: Keep it simple.
Don't: Slather your unit with a dozen special rules and pieces of wargear. For marine characters, this generally involves have no more than three special 'things', be they wargear items or special rules.
Do: Keep it simple. Seriously. When I mean simple, I mean a relatively new 12-year old to the game should remember the rules of your character after the first match.
Seriously. Simplicity is your ally, subtlety your friend.
Don't: Create some absurd fluff that does not fit with anything as a justification to take a Grey Knights Bane Blade or Chaos Sister of Battle. Just don't. You're not creative or original when you do it.
Do: Take criticism well. It may be harsh, it may be blunt, but if you post, accept the results.
Don't: Get defensive. Do not call people names, don't play the victim. Man up, take the critique like a grown adult who can set aside emotions to understand clear thinking. If you post it, accept it.
Do: Keep it simple. I can't emphasize this enough.
Don't: Go overboard with making up rules for everything. Most things you want can be represented by clever usage of existing units, especially marines! Your chapter is not some super special snowflake chapter that single-handedly saved Terra.
Do: Use logical pre-existing templates and math your units accordingly. We are not here to hand out pts for you. Do your research, read posts around here, learn our methods and apply them. We'll help fine tune.
Don't: Assume you know more than anyone on this board. Everyone here makes mistakes, even you.
Do: Remember these units will be played only in friendly games with friends; their primary purpose should serve to fill a unique fluff role in your army, and should generally be UNDERPOWERED before it errs on the side of even balance.
Don't: Be absurd. Just pause before you add that extra ability or piece of wargear.
Do: Have fun. Most of these rules are designed for fluff reasons. So have fun fluffing out your chapter/warband/regiment/kabal/whatever.
Just, be reasonable. Do research.
And I do mean abbreviated. I could write a lengthy article filled with good and bad examples for every one of those points and some I forgot about.
Thank you very much! I'll think about it hard before posting them here then.
I'll chime in my 2 cents too, with my 'Character Creation Guide', though this is more the practical
When creating a character, after your initial idea / core, then it’s comparison, experience and restraint.
First look at similar characters, price things according to the cost of units / characters / wargear in the relevant codex.
Then move to other codexes and check against equivalent things there.
If all else fails, as a general rule, costing it at 10pts base per stat point, wargear or rule, and then modify accordingly.
It helps to work from the 'base' version of the character / unit (if available). Ensure it is never cheaper than running its 'standard' equivalent and don't do anything too absurd or gamebreaking.
I generally recommend rounding up, and that over costing is far better than under costing, as if someone looks at your unit and goes 'yeah, that's overpriced' or 'It costs that much and only does that?' They're going to let you use it.
Or, to look at it from the other side - if someone else put your unit down infront of you, said 'these are the rules, can I use it?' what would you say? (Realisticly.)
Additionally - come up with decent names. If it and its gear and rules are named well, people are that much more likely to accept it. It's not a huge factor, but I'm far more likely to accept 'Julian Lestat, 4th Lord of the Knights Errant' with his elegant singing swords to 'Super Marine God Man' with his pwnhammer.
And for a more indepth 'guide':
Spoiler:
The easiest way is to select the closest thing that already exists, then 'adjusting' the points like so:
Unit Type: +/-10pts depending on whether it's shifted from infantry to something better, or from something better to infantry, WS, BS, S, T, W, I, A- +/- 10pts per point of difference Ld- +/- 5pts per point of difference, Sv- +/- 10pts per point of difference.
Wargear:
Step 1: Cost all the wargear the base character has, that your character doesn't have, and subtract it.
Step 2: Cost all the new / different wargear your character has, and add it. Standard Wargear, use at the standard cost of the closest unit to yours (another HQ choice, an Elites choice etc.) If that wargear is a modified base, go with base cost +5pts per change made. (You can also give a guestimate up and down based on negatives / if it seems overcosted.)
Step 3: Any new and unique wargear, attempt to cost using the closest existing gear as a base, then adjusting based on differences.
Special Rules:
Step 1: Cost all the special the base character has, that your character doesn't have, and subtract it.
Step 2: Cost all the new / different special rules your character has, and add it. Guesstimate and use at the standard cost of the closest unit to yours (another HQ choice, an Elites choice etc.) If that special rule is a modified base, go with base cost +5-10pts per change made. (You can also give a guestimate up and down based on negatives / if it seems overcosted.)
Step 3: Any new and unique rules, attempt to cost using the closest existing rule as a base, then adjusting based on differences.
Adding Eternal Warrior is 35pts as stated in the Space Wolves Codex.
Options:
Price accordingly.
When done add 10% of the current cost / 10pts (whichevers lower.) as an 'anything you missed tax' then round up to the nearest 5 or 10 pts so it doesn't end up something silly like 173, or 228.
Always err on the side of Over costed if you're in doubt, it'll lead to people being more accepting of it.
Furthermore, always ensure you've spelt your character properly. And try to lay it out nicely / give things cool names.
i.e. - Wolf God Hammer sounds a bit crap, try and do something interesting, like Borealis Thunder Hammer.
Once you've done all this, forget this unit is your baby, that you've just spent ages carefully crafting the bugger, sit back and think like your opponent, objectively look at the unit, its stats, rules and cost, and think 'If someone else had made this, would I be happy to let them use it and play against it?'
If the answer is YES, put it up for review / playtest it, etc - there may have been something you missed / an unforeseen effect / synergy that makes things a bit overpowered.
Adjust up or down accordingly dependant on performance (or leave it as is and call it finished if it seems to play fine.)
I'll take a break from looking over otherfolks characters and whack some of my new Sisters characters in shortly.
Well, I think in the case of Combat Tactics, the trick is to find something that every unit can theoretically use, but is not something that can really blow the game wide open. With your current arrangement, if I was using the character, I would take him, two massive squads of TH/SS terminators and just watch the world burn as I drop 20 terminators on my opponent who can assault right out of the gate.
If I remember right, you described your character as a sort of all-rounder, correct? In that case, his rule should reflect the overall versatility of his tactics. Furious Charge fits a more assault-oriented role nicely. Or possibly re-rolls to sweep/consolidate. Stuff like that would be more fitting, and a less smashing to the game.
Point taken, you might make a list with that rule that abuses terminators, but finally they'd actually become worth taking.
Furious Charge rule is quite overused and useless special rule - at least my experience with it has been proven rather "meh". When would I ever gain any reasonable benefits from Furious Charge, when I have rarely had an opportunity to assault enemies? If the squad doesn't have thunder hammers or power fists, I unfortunately find it useless. On the other hand, that'd also make termies rather abuse-a-licious, so probably I wouldn't take it. I do not intend to become a copy of Blood Angels.
But let's recap thic and clarify: It should be an all-rounder ability - at least preferably - and be balanced with on both offensive and defensive side, but if it goes more to the defence, that's not bad (descendants of Dorn, after all). I coule preferable be unique or least seen ability on the table. Counter-attack would sound nice, but that's too Wolfy-esque. Rampage would go on both worlds: offence and defence, since it lets you roll +1D3 attacks more per model in close combat, if you have less models than the opponent does - and naturally you can't have this benefit upon declaring the multi-assault. I've only seen it with a single Eldar unit, and if I recall right, that's an IC. Rampage would also be a gamble: it MAY be better than Counter-attack or Rage - or not, depending on the swing of your dice-rolling arm.
Shas'La Fierceshot
The Fire Warrior that would one day become known as Fierceshot was a rather unremarkable student at the academy who graduated with no particular distinction. He went on to serve with acceptable merit with his fellow linesmen. He had neither the spark of tactical acumen of a leader, nor the stone cold determination of fighter. The only unique trait of this Fire Warrior was his uncanny ability with his pulse rifle. Fierceshot was able to strike targets at ranges that few could match. Not only that, his accuracy allowed him to pick out the weak points of just about any enemy be they the optical lenses of an Astartes or the fuel tank of an Ork Kan. Fire Caste Command jumped at this remarkable sharpshooter and immediately assigned him a Firesight Marksman Team. However, his performance was much less than expected. Although he was able to handle a pulse rifle phenomenally, it did not translate into skill with a markerlight designator. To capitalize on this hands-on skill, Fierceshot was reassigned again, this time to a Pathfinder sniper team. Once more, Fire Caste Command would be disappointed His marksmanship improved as expected, however he could not keep up with his comrades and his thunderous foot falls scared away all nearby creatures before he even reached their area of operation. Defeated, Command placed him back with the Fire Warrior teams. And here is where he would shine and earn his name. Fierceshot could put down a rampaging Nob before he could reach Tau lines. He could assassinate Imperial Guard Commanders and throw entire platoons into disarray. His squadmates are heartened to hear the pulse of his rifle fire knowing that with every searing ball of plasma he sends down range, one more foe of the Greater Good exists.
WS2 BS5 S3 T3 W1 I2 A1 Ld7 Sv4+
Type: Infantry
Equipment: Pulse Rifle, Combat Armor, Photon Grenades
Special Rules:
Marksman - All of Fierce Shots shooting attacks are Precision Shots. Also, rolls to wound of 5+ are AP2
Inspirational Shot - Whenever a character suffers an unsaved wound from one of Fierceshot's shooting attacks, the next friendly Tau unit to fire at that unit may reroll 1s to hit and wound.
Not sure what to cost him as their's not much to go by. I mean he can snipe out MEq special models fairly frequently. But he can't reliably hurt anything T6+. But he can also buff the next firing unit. I'm thinking a cost range of around +25-45pts on top of a FW's 9pts.
WS2 BS5 S3 T3 W1 I2 A1 Ld7 Sv4+
Type: Infantry
Equipment: Pulse Rifle, Combat Armor, Photon Grenades
Special Rules:
Marksman - All of Fierce Shots shooting attacks are Precision Shots. Also, rolls to wound of 5+ are AP2
Inspirational Shot - Whenever a character suffers an unsaved wound from one of Fierceshot's shooting attacks, the next friendly Tau unit to fire at that unit may reroll 1s to hit and wound.
Not sure what to cost him as their's not much to go by. I mean he can snipe out MEq special models fairly frequently. But he can't reliably hurt anything T6+. But he can also buff the next firing unit. I'm thinking a cost range of around +25-45pts on top of a FW's 9pts.
I like it. I agree that it should be Rending instead of AP2, that would allow for a bit more damage occasionally, especially to vehicles.
Phoenix Lord Zandros, The bladed Hurricane. 240pts?
Ws8
Bs8
S4
T4
W3
I8
A4
Ld10
Save 2+
For the record, bump in stats aren't because this phoenix lord is better then the others. Its because I think all phoenix lords should have this stat line. They should be better in combat then a lowly Archon and at least match an assassin.
Wargear. Phoenix armour, plasma grenades,
Remnants of glory
Slicing Orbs of Zandros. Ancient, battered silver orbs are inset into the phoenix lords amour. When battle calls these orbs, beckoned by Zandros's psykic stimuli, begin to orbit Zandros akin to a small moon. Zandros then orders the orbs to fly amongst the seething masses of interlopers and then they explode in a scintillating flash of blades which leaves enemies in bloody chunks.
Range18 Str 5 Ap -assault 2,blast, pinning, rending.
or Range Melee, Strength +1, Ap -, rending, Bladed rotation*
* Zandros inflicts an automatic hit on any enemy model in base contact with him, as well as making his normal attacks.
Warlord traint: Mark of the incomparable hunter
Special Rules:
Ancient doom, battle focus, Eternal warrior, Fearless, Fear, Fleet, Independent character, Psyker (mastery level 2), SoulFire.
SoulFire.Every phoenix lord's armour invariably contains the souls of thousands of powerful exarchs, each spirit coalesced into the greater spirit of the armour much akin to a miniature infinity circuit. This gives the phoenix lord a deep well of psykic power to draw upon with surrounds the Lords warp shadow in blazing soulfire which absorbs and reflects foul Magiks,
The phoenix lord has the Adamantium Will USR and for each successful deny the witch attempted rolled by the phoenix lord the psyker that attempted the power must take a blinding test, as well as any enemy daemons or psykers within 6 inches.
Can only choose powers on the telekinesis table.
Exarch Powers
Fast shot, Course of blades*
Grants a 4+ cover save to Exarch against any weapon blow strength 8, by way of the mystical orbs blocking the blow or obscuring the target.
The Aspect has been mentioned a few times and I think they deserve a phoenix lord. I imagine the aspect to use there psykic powers to levitate bladed spinning orbs to throw at the enemy of use in combat. I figured that 3 small blasts at AP - wont be OP, and his melee is decidedly worse then all the other lords, but the real difference is the level 2 psyker, of a fairly mediocre table, but its still a big difference. I think all phoenix lords should get SoulFire and Fear because of there towering psykic presence. Each eldar soul is a psyker, and a phoenix lord is made up of thousands of them.
Not entirely sure on the price though, maybe someone could help me out?
ALEXisAWESOME wrote:Could I please get a look in, I think I my post my of been buried underneath a surge of other posts. Inconvenient Jerks
I'll come to you in a minute.
acekevin8412 wrote:Shas'La Fierceshot
Spoiler:
The Fire Warrior that would one day become known as Fierceshot was a rather unremarkable student at the academy who graduated with no particular distinction. He went on to serve with acceptable merit with his fellow linesmen. He had neither the spark of tactical acumen of a leader, nor the stone cold determination of fighter. The only unique trait of this Fire Warrior was his uncanny ability with his pulse rifle. Fierceshot was able to strike targets at ranges that few could match. Not only that, his accuracy allowed him to pick out the weak points of just about any enemy be they the optical lenses of an Astartes or the fuel tank of an Ork Kan. Fire Caste Command jumped at this remarkable sharpshooter and immediately assigned him a Firesight Marksman Team. However, his performance was much less than expected. Although he was able to handle a pulse rifle phenomenally, it did not translate into skill with a markerlight designator. To capitalize on this hands-on skill, Fierceshot was reassigned again, this time to a Pathfinder sniper team. Once more, Fire Caste Command would be disappointed His marksmanship improved as expected, however he could not keep up with his comrades and his thunderous foot falls scared away all nearby creatures before he even reached their area of operation. Defeated, Command placed him back with the Fire Warrior teams. And here is where he would shine and earn his name. Fierceshot could put down a rampaging Nob before he could reach Tau lines. He could assassinate Imperial Guard Commanders and throw entire platoons into disarray. His squadmates are heartened to hear the pulse of his rifle fire knowing that with every searing ball of plasma he sends down range, one more foe of the Greater Good exists.
WS2 BS5 S3 T3 W1 I2 A1 Ld7 Sv4+
Type: Infantry
Equipment: Pulse Rifle, Combat Armor, Photon Grenades
Special Rules:
Marksman - All of Fierce Shots shooting attacks are Precision Shots. Also, rolls to wound of 5+ are AP2
Inspirational Shot - Whenever a character suffers an unsaved wound from one of Fierceshot's shooting attacks, the next friendly Tau unit to fire at that unit may reroll 1s to hit and wound.
Not sure what to cost him as their's not much to go by. I mean he can snipe out MEq special models fairly frequently. But he can't reliably hurt anything T6+. But he can also buff the next firing unit. I'm thinking a cost range of around +25-45pts on top of a FW's 9pts.
Ok then, as said above, I would replace 5+ AP2 with Rending.
Also - I'd consider replacing his Pulse Rifle with a Longshot Pulse Rifle - still a Pulse Rifle, but more.. fitting to his ability.
Thanks for suggestions. I'm going to use rending but I'm going to keep the pulse rifle. In my mind he's just a regular firewarrior except his godly shooting ability. Anything outside of power armor should tremble when he steps on the board.
fluff: Nilath was a council Farseer of the craft world Ctho. The world long empty of many living bodies drifts through the void of the galaxy battle hungry fueled by fire. During a grand campaign against an Imperium farm sector to reclaim lost exodite worlds and more importantly the sacred relic named justly "keeper of the dead." During the final battle atop a sunken Eldar shrine Nilath was struck down during his time with perils of the warp. The space marine captain pulled the glowing claws from Nilath's body as Nilath's mind fought a greater demon of the ancient foe. The mighty wraith constructs drove the marines back, and Nilath was carried into the temple bleeding and still fighting the demon. He was laid on an ancient alter even by Eldar standards where the Keeper of the Dead chose him. The relic wraith construct suit came to life under the alter and crabbed Nilath. It ripped his soul from his body and his mind. Along with the daemon. Leaving him in limbo of half dead and half a live where can talk on both planes of existence.
Unit type:
Independent Character
Special Rules: Fearless Ancient Foe Master Level 2
Wargear: Death Talker - Death Talker is a wraith cannon that can fire three times and has a boost range. Consult the following profile: Range 18" Strenght 10, AP 2 Assualt 3, Distort
Spirit Wraith - Nilath is for all tense and purposes a wraith guard construct base. He benefits from the spirit mark rule. In addition to is unfortunate circumstances his save is invulnerable. Keeper of the Dead - Nilath watches over the dead speaking to them and the realm of the living as he is caught in his inner turmoil battle against the demon. He protects the spirits of the wraith with their presence in the warp and guides them in the realm of the living with ease. All Wraith constructs within 12 inches of Nilath gain the feel no pain universal rule including Nilath.
Nilath use to be a farseer, and hasn't lost his powers completely yet. As such he can roll for two powers on the battle table in codex Eldar and has two warp charge points.
Enemy within - Nilath is in a constant fight in his mind. Roll a d6 at the start of each turn, if a 1 is rolled Nilath is under a great assault in his mind. He loses his invulnerable save for the turn and can not cast psychic powers. In addition to this if Nilath perils he takes two wounds instead of one. But may spend a warp charge point to prevent the second wound.
is the pricing fair? I will be watching. I tried to keep it simple, 3 special things, and a draw back. I think the draw back is fun. Who knows I would love review, be brutal.
cormadepanda wrote: Panda wants to make a character! Oh yes... this time for my Eldar.
Nilath Keeper of the Dead: 175pts
WS| BS | S | T | W | I | A | LD | SV | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 3 |5| 2 |10 | 3+
fluff: Nilath was a council Farseer of the craft world Ctho. The world long empty of many living bodies drifts through the void of the galaxy battle hungry fueled by fire. During a grand campaign against an Imperium farm sector to reclaim lost exodite worlds and more importantly the sacred relic named justly "keeper of the dead." During the final battle atop a sunken Eldar shrine Nilath was struck down during his time with perils of the warp. The space marine captain pulled the glowing claws from Nilath's body as Nilath's mind fought a greater demon of the ancient foe. The mighty wraith constructs drove the marines back, and Nilath was carried into the temple bleeding and still fighting the demon. He was laid on an ancient alter even by Eldar standards where the Keeper of the Dead chose him. The relic wraith construct suit came to life under the alter and crabbed Nilath. It ripped his soul from his body and his mind. Along with the daemon. Leaving him in limbo of half dead and half a live where can talk on both planes of existence.
Unit type:
Independent Character
Special Rules:
Fearless
Ancient Foe
Master Level 2
Wargear:
Death Talker - Death Talker is a wraith cannon that can fire three times and has a boost range.
Consult the following profile:
Range 18" Strenght 10, AP 2 Assualt 3, Distort
Spirit Wraith - Nilath is for all tense and purposes a wraith guard construct base. He benefits from the spirit mark rule. In addition to is unfortunate circumstances his save is invulnerable.
Keeper of the Dead - Nilath watches over the dead speaking to them and the realm of the living as he is caught in his inner turmoil battle against the demon. He protects the spirits of the wraith with their presence in the warp and guides them in the realm of the living with ease. All Wraith constructs within 12 inches of Nilath gain the feel no pain universal rule including Nilath.
Nilath use to be a farseer, and hasn't lost his powers completely yet. As such he can roll for two powers on the battle table in codex Eldar and has two warp charge points.
Enemy within - Nilath is in a constant fight in his mind. Roll a d6 at the start of each turn, if a 1 is rolled Nilath is under a great assault in his mind. He loses his invulnerable save for the turn and can not roll for powers. In addition to this if Nilath perils he takes two wounds instead of one. But may spend a warp charge point to prevent the second wound.
is the pricing fair? I will be watching. I tried to keep it simple, 3 special things, and a draw back. I think the draw back is fun. Who knows I would love review, be brutal.
I think he's fine. The only problem I have is that the phrase "for all intents and purposes" was just raped.
fluff: Nilath was a council Farseer of the craft world Ctho. The world long empty of many living bodies drifts through the void of the galaxy battle hungry fueled by fire. During a grand campaign against an Imperium farm sector to reclaim lost exodite worlds and more importantly the sacred relic named justly "keeper of the dead." During the final battle atop a sunken Eldar shrine Nilath was struck down during his time with perils of the warp. The space marine captain pulled the glowing claws from Nilath's body as Nilath's mind fought a greater demon of the ancient foe. The mighty wraith constructs drove the marines back, and Nilath was carried into the temple bleeding and still fighting the demon. He was laid on an ancient alter even by Eldar standards where the Keeper of the Dead chose him. The relic wraith construct suit came to life under the alter and crabbed Nilath. It ripped his soul from his body and his mind. Along with the daemon. Leaving him in limbo of half dead and half a live where can talk on both planes of existence.
Unit type:
Independent Character
Special Rules:
Fearless
Ancient Foe
Master Level 2
Spirit Mark
Wargear:
Death Talker - Death Talker is a wraith cannon that can fire three times and has a boost range.
Consult the following profile:
Range 18" Strenght 10, AP 2 Assualt 3, Distort
Spirit Wraith - Nilath is a wraith guard construct base. He benefits from the spirit mark rule. In addition to is unfortunate circumstances his save is invulnerable.
Keeper of the Dead - Nilath watches over the dead speaking to them and the realm of the living as he is caught in his inner turmoil battle against the demon. He protects the spirits of the wraith with their presence in the warp and guides them in the realm of the living with ease. All Wraith constructs within 12 inches of Nilath gain the feel no pain universal rule including Nilath.
Nilath use to be a Farseer, and hasn't lost his powers completely yet. As such he can roll for two powers on the "battle table" in codex Eldar and has two warp charge points.
Enemy within - Nilath is in a constant fight in his mind. Roll a d6 at the start of each turn, if a 1 is rolled Nilath is under a great assault in his mind. He loses his invulnerable save for the turn and can not cast psychic powers. In addition to this if Nilath perils he takes two wounds instead of one. But may spend a warp charge point to prevent the second wound.
is the pricing fair? I will be watching. I tried to keep it simple, 3 special things, and a draw back. I think the draw back is fun. Who knows I would love review, be brutal.
curran12 wrote:I would clear up his rules a little bit, as there are two flavors of Eldar psyker powers. Which list does he get to generate from?
he rolls on the battle table. That is it. Oh I also want to add the spirit mark rule to him as well.
Brother Paladin Gahwain (Fluff to follow later) I really liked the removal of wound shenanigans for paladins but I disliked how none of them could issue or accept challenges anymore so I decided to create an upgrade character for them. The points cost is based on the paladin model and not a GKHQ such as the Grand Master.
WSBS S T W I A LdSv 6 4 4 4 3 4 4 10 2+/4++
Wargear: Terminator Armor, Storm Bolter, Nemesis Force Weapon (Each wepon carries all of the rules that a normal NFW does. In addition, Gawain's abilities depend on which weapon is chosen. All Nemesis weapons are counted as being master crafted), Frag and Krak Grenades, Psyk-out Grenades, Iron Halo (May take out)
Special Rules: The Aegis, ATSKNF, Preferred Enemy (Daemons), Psyker (Matery Level 2), Master of the Holy Arsenal
Psychic Powers: Hammerhand, Holocaust, Master of the Holy Arsenal (Described Below)
Master of the Holy Arsenal: Gawhain has spent his entire 184 Terran years of service to the chapter honing his skills with the Nemesis Force Weapons. While most Grey Knights carry the same variant into battle, Gawhain seeks to gain mastery over all weapon types in the Chapters melee arsenal. It is often said that if he would simply pick one weapon and focus solely on it, he would be one of the greatest warriors in the chapter. The artificers of Titan have made many ornate and masterfully created weapons for Gawhain to carry into battle. However, he refuses to meet the enemy with any weapon that is unavailable to his brother paladins. He has learned to push the "normal weapons" to their limits and has developed new techniques that give pause to even the Brotherhood Champions.
Gahwain's point cost and abilities are entirely dependent on which weapon he carries into battle. Each weapon carries a different skill and Gahwain can never pick more than one NFW. Each ability is considered a psychic power that must be cast before the ability may be used. None of these powers is considered to target an enemy unit so no DTW rolls may be made against them. If Gahwain attempts to use a psychic power and fails his test he is considered to have lost his concentration and will count as having -1 Initiative and -1 attacks (and can also not benefit from bonus attacks from charging), but otherwise fights normally. Also note, that a perils of double ones fails his psychic test. All abilities are cast at the beginning of the Assault Phase unless otherwise stated.
Nemesis Force Sword Ability (160pts): Charge! Keep Them off Balance!- On a turn Gahwain declares a charge he may select a model in the unit he is charging. This selection must be made before charge distance is measured. If his charge range is sufficient, he may immediately move into btb contact with the chosen model in a straight line, passing through any infantry/cavalry models in the unit. Any model he passes through, as well as the target model, immediately suffers a S:4 AP- concussive wound. The strength of the auto attack can only be boosted by Hammerhand and nothing else. Each model he passes through removes one of his attacks and he may never move through more models than he has attacks. If any attacks remain after this move than he may direct the remainder at the target unit at his normal initiative step. The target of this ability is so shocked by such a bull rush that they are unable to issue/accept challenges. Gahwain is also unable to issue/accept challenges and simply ignores them. If he ends this ability out of coherency than the ability is considered to have failed and simple attacks normally.
Example: He has 5 attacks on the charge. He may pass through a maximum of 4 models and attack once against this ability's target.
Halberd Ability (130 pts): My Reach is Far- If the ability is passed, Gahwain's charges count as having +1 inch of movement. This ability does not carry over to his unit of Paladins. In addition, the first attack Gahwain makes on a charge counts as +1 Strength and AP2. This attack must be rolled first before subsequent attacks at his initiative.
Hammer Ability (150 pts) Overhead Crush - Armorbane (at all times). If this power is successful than Gahwain may choose to make an Overhead Crushing attack with his hammer instead of his normal attack on a To Hit roll of 5+. The Overhead Crush attack is placing a small blast template over an enemy model within 1 inch of Gahwain. Any model (other than himself) suffers an automatic hit from his Nemesis Daemon Hammer. These attacks do harm friendly units. If any Overhead Crush attacks are used in lieu of normal attacks than the regular attacks are considered to be automatic misses. This is Gahwain putting all of his strength into these huge smashing attacks. The reroll master crafting grants may be used for these purposes.
Warding Staff Ability (185 pts) Shield of Concentrated Piety This ability counts as a blessing and must be cast at the beginning of the movement phase. If it is successfull than any model within 3 inches of Gahwain counts as having a 3++, defensive grenades, and the unit has the Reinforced Aegis. Any unit that benefits from this ability may not move (except to fall back), shoot (this includes overwatch), or assault until the controlling players next turn. If the unit is assaulted they may either lose all abilities granted by the power and strike normally, or they may choose to forfeit all of their attacks and maintain them. In addition the ground around them would be treated as both difficult and dangerous.
Falcion Ability (145 pts) Righeous Whirlwind The falcions add +1 A as normal but also add +1 Initiative. If a psychic test is passed than Gahwain also has the Rampage and Shred USR.
Pretty rough around the edges but I just came up with the concepts today at work. I really liked the idea of an upgrade character that has entirely different abilities based on what is in his hands. Please let me know what you think!
Okay, so first off, I hope this is some typos here, because for 130-185 points, almost entirely cheaper than a naked Grand Master (175), you get something that is almost better in every respect, stats-wise to a Grand Master. The difference is that this Paladin has 2 less BS, 1 more wound, 1 more attack and 1 less Init. This is pretty insane. Why does this guy have 4 wounds?
And honestly, these various rules and things just add a lot of complexity. Way too much. One of these rulesets alone would be a pretty tall order, but having to keep all of this in mind in all of his various forms is just way too much complexity. I'd advise picking one and focusing on it, instead of trying to create this jack of all trades 'I do everything' supercharacter.
Sorry 4 wounds was a typo. Yea I guess it just is WAY too much. That's what I get for being bored at work. I could jack up the points cost but i guess i considered that I could keep it a little down since he is just an upgrade character rather than an IC. I'll probably drop him down to paladin stats and just add a WS and an attack or something. If I had to pick a set it would proably be the Falcion rule as it's pretty simple and I never see people use them. I also think thye look awesome. How about this.
Anyway, I'm digging that new version. Simple, clean, nice improvement.
Thanks! I think I'm going to head back to the drawing board for the other abilities. I really want to create a character that has a different ability depending on his weapons but I need to make the process MUCH more simplistic. I just need to figure a way to do it without just slapping on USR. We'll see. Thanks for bringing me back down to earth guys!
During the Black Templars long crusades many of the Space marines were killed causing a stress on the apothecary department. Instead of using there men they needed to increase the apothecaries the Chapter decide to splinter and recruit there own; and with many of the apothecaries becoming following them. The successor chapter has its own marine for defense but mostly follows behind there battle brothers to assist them with recovering the Gene-Seed. Kalo having the seniority of the Apothecaries was given the honor of being chapter master. Being an assistant when Sigismund gene-seed was harvested he has learned the ways of the apothecary. During the battles of Armageddon he was assigned to High Marshall Helbrecht's Command Squad. Even though he was a marine he had rarely been in fighting. He fought hard because of his duty to the emperor. When the Orks charged in the space hulk he was charging along with them. While his brothers grabbed and saved Helbrecht he ran over and grabbed Vosper's dead body and teleported back. After the Ork retreat he was there collecting the gene-seed's of his brothers. He was given the option to become part of the command squad permanently. He accepted the role and joined his brothers on the ground. After many years of fighting he had become seasoned enough were he was given the option of becoming a Castellan. He refused choosing to remain an Apothecary with Helbrecht command squad. When the apothecaries split it was a natural person to choose as there Chapter Master. He accepted on the condition that he would remain an Apothecary as well. The chapter follows with Helbrecht and in the Black Templar tradition chooses an Apothecary to join into Helbrecht command squad. The chapter is organized different then most chapters. They rely more on apothecaries and is reflected in there organization. There crusader squads are all composed of new apothecaries, with an field apothecary. The newer apothecaries are not fully trained in there work but the field apothecary is seasoned (like a sergeant). There fighting teams are the sword brethren squads that come with a field apothecary. (Used both Space Marine codex and Templar codex for creation)
Wargear
Narthecium
Artificer Armor
Terminator Honors (Included in Profile)
Iron Halo
Dual Bolt Pistols
Power Sword
Frag and Krak Grenades
Special Rules
Great Healer
Crusader Seals
Adrenaline Shot
Eternal Warrior
IC And they shall know no fear
Narthecium: gives the models and the squad a 4+ FNP saves
Great Healer: As long as Kalo is not wounded he grants every unit that has a model with a Narthecium within 6 inches a 3+ FNP save. If they do not have a Narthecium they gain a 6+ FNP.
Crusader Seals: Reroll righteous zeal
Adrenaline Shot: Once per game Kalo can you his adrenaline shot. He gains it will not die rule for that turn (Not the unit just him) and can fire his pistols twice but cannot assault.
As a upgrade Kalo may take his Apothecary Circle and The Collector
The Apothecary Circle Consist of 5- 9 Field Apothecary and 0- 5 Sword Brethren
Each Field Apothecary cost 24 Points and consist of marines equipped with Narthecium, frag, kraks and Dual Bolt Pistols.
Each Sword Brethren cost 29 points and are marines equipped with Bolt Pistols, Chainswords, frag and kraks and have terminator honors and furious charge.
The Collector is a modified Land Raider Crusader that cost 275. Instead of and a Assault Cannon it is replaced with a twin-linked heavy bolter. When Kalo is inside The Collector Great Healer rule is measured from the hull. Its hulls are blessed and not affected by lance and has extra armor. For an extra 75 points it can be given the will not die special rule.
Does that sound like a good points cost. I kind of did add and subtract with the space marine chapter masters and what I valued the rules I added
Kor Phaeron's infamy ranks amongst the highest in the legions of Horus Lupercal. Hated and admired in equal measure, he was seen as the driving force behind Lorgar's defection to Chaos. He is currently the nominal commander in chief of the Seventeenth Legion, and is head of the Council of Sicarius; however, recently Erebus has become more of a threat to his reign over the Word Bearers.
Codex: Chaos Space Marines
270 points
Type: Infantry (character)
Composition: 1 (unique)
WS5 BS5 S4 T4 W4 I4 A2 Ld10 Sv2+
Wargear: Master-crafted Power fist, Master-crafted power maul, Master-crafted combi-flamer
Armor of the Pantheon: Kor Phaeron's ancient suit of Cataphractii armor is so steeped in sorcery and black magick that it girds his body and wards his soul. Notably he has not been able to remove his armour for centuries. It provides a 2+ armor save and 3+ ward save, as well as the Slow and Purposeful USR. In addition, it increases his T and W to the profile shown above, without which would be a paltry 3. Lastly, Kor Phaeron gets an additional +1 to Deny the Witch rolls.
Shard of Erebus: Kor Phaeron carries one of the 8 Shards, chipped from the Anathame that delivered Horus into Chaos. One Use Only. May be used during a close combat phase, inflicting a single attack instead of normal attacks. Must first roll to hit. If hit, an enemy model must immediately pass a Ld test on 3D6 or be removed from play with no saves of any kind allowed.
Special Rules: Independent Character, Fearless, Feel No Pain (6+), Psyker (Mastery level 2)- may roll for spells from any of the Chaos psychic tables.
Dark Cardinal: Kor Phaeron grants Fearless to all friendly units within 12 inches from C:CSM.
Apostate: Kor Phaeron is blessed by the Pantheon. He has the Eternal Warrior USR.
First Captain: Chaos Chosen are Troops choices.
Eyes of the Gods: All friendly units from C:CSM within 12 inches can reroll rolls on the Chaos Boons table.
Warlord Trait: May reroll rolls on the Chaos Boons table.
Can those Chosen score?
Seems pretty good, but he has a lot of special rules. And does he really need both EW and 4 wounds? That seems a little excessive. Same for the fist and the maul, does he need both?
Sgt Rock is gonna kill me wrote: Can those Chosen score?
Seems pretty good, but he has a lot of special rules. And does he really need both EW and 4 wounds? That seems a little excessive. Same for the fist and the maul, does he need both?
Yes the Chosen become troops choices so yes they score
EW and 4 wounds to represent that he IS the representative of the 4 gods, outside of abaddon and lorgar. Fist and maul is for fluff purposes; his armor comes with a power fist while the maul is his crozius.
fluff: Vo'rah died during a Necron dynasty war on the outer fringe of the Eldar empire before the great fall. His soul preserved in a large stone he slumbered waiting for his wraith body to form a new at his dying wish. He awoke to the screams of the dying and feeling thousands of souls shatter in an instant. He grabbed the souls of those working around him pulling them into the various stones on his Wraith lord body. He saved only but a few, and watched into the warp the horror of the old foe devour the spirits of the Eldar race. The foe came after him and nearly devoured him if it were not for the efforts of the few he saved. They poured their energies into a pool focusing their powers into a portal to spirit walk. Ripping a hole into the warp Vo'rah walked in with jaws of hunger at the back of his mind tugging. There in the warp he saw the face of this new found enemy. It licked its perfect lips ready to devour him and lunged for him. In the split instant of almost being eaten the portal opened again throwing Vo'rah across the galaxy on an Exodite world. Where in orbit the Ctho's craft world floated hungry for war and Vo'rah hungry for revenge.
Spirit Walk - Take a psychic power test on perils roll a d6 on the roll of a 1 Vo'rah is sucked into the warp to be spit out elsewhere (he dies for the purpose of game victory points). If the power successfully casts Vo'rah and a select ally wraith unit within 12" deep strike somewhere else on the map.
First place Vo'rah and roll scatter for him. Then place the wraith unit within six inches of Vo'rah they do not scatter. If Vo'rah mishaps on the deep strike, roll result, but still place the wraith unit anywhere within six inches of Vo'rah's original location.
Warp Armor - Armor of the forbidden armory that was crafted during the great fall. Its soul stones captured many of the Eldar's souls that were crafting the wraith lords shell during the start of the great fall. It is said the bone singers who died working on the wraith lord can talk and still sing their song to the lords bones repairing him and even enhance the shell for a brief moment before a large impact preventing the most devastating blows. Warp armor confers a 3++ save and the Spirit Walk rule.
cormadepanda wrote: I want to make another character for my army. This time it is a Wraith Lord type so If the points are off I am sorry.
-snip-
I'll review your characters (and a bunch of other stuff) in a bit when it' cooled down (FAR too hot here). For the moment though... your unit layout is just bizarre with the layered quote boxes.... Makes it overly large and harder to read. You'll find some plain-text Templates specifically designed for use with this forum here.
Wargear
Narthecium
Artificer Armor
Terminator Honors (Included in Profile)
Iron Halo
Dual Bolt Pistols
Power Sword
Frag and Krak Grenades
Special Rules
Great Healer
Crusader Seals
Adrenaline Shot
Eternal Warrior
IC And they shall know no fear
Narthecium: gives the models and the squad a 4+ FNP saves
Great Healer: As long as Kalo is not wounded he grants every unit that has a model with a Narthecium within 6 inches a 3+ FNP save. If they do not have a Narthecium they gain a 6+ FNP.
Crusader Seals: Reroll righteous zeal
Adrenaline Shot: Once per game Kalo can you his adrenaline shot. He gains it will not die rule for that turn (Not the unit just him) and can fire his pistols twice but cannot assault.
As a upgrade Kalo may take his Apothecary Circle and The Collector
The Apothecary Circle Consist of 5- 9 Field Apothecary and 0- 5 Sword Brethren
Each Field Apothecary cost 24 Points and consist of marines equipped with Narthecium, frag, kraks and Dual Bolt Pistols.
Each Sword Brethren cost 29 points and are marines equipped with Bolt Pistols, Chainswords, frag and kraks and have terminator honors and furious charge.
The Collector is a modified Land Raider Crusader that cost 275. Instead of and a Assault Cannon it is replaced with a twin-linked heavy bolter. When Kalo is inside The Collector Great Healer rule is measured from the hull. Its hulls are blessed and not affected by lance and has extra armor. For an extra 75 points it can be given the will not die special rule.
Well your feel no pain is OTT and the lain raider rule is the only thing that leaves me off. I would have to say he is a little much for 250pts alone because alot of what he does is the secondary rules. I think he should cost only something about 200pts.
cormadepanda wrote: I want to make another character for my army. This time it is a Wraith Lord type so If the points are off I am sorry.
-snip-
I'll review your characters (and a bunch of other stuff) in a bit when it' cooled down (FAR too hot here).
For the moment though... your unit layout is just bizarre with the layered quote boxes....
Makes it overly large and harder to read.
You'll find some plain-text Templates specifically designed for use with this forum here.
ravengatorfan wrote: So do think 5+ and 4+ is better than? And with the land raider do you mean the will no die rule?
On a second reading I am actually ok with the land raider rule. For the fnp bubble boost that is fine, as long as you don't have 3+ and 3+ fnp. 4+/5+ is fine. I would say he just grants the feel no pain rule.
Also,I would say simplify his rules some what as well. It confusing he take a land raider, and two types of supporting circles. I think it should just be a medical team.
As stated many times around here you should keep it simple.
My suggests are, keep the raider rule, and keepy the medic team rule, keep the FNP buffs and FNP bubble. I am not sure on anything else, I dont play marines enough to know if this is to much or to little.
Urkrathos may take a squad of chosen or cultists as a retinue squad
Blood sword:
The blood sword is a power sword that consumes the blood of victims it impales. This weapon always causes instant death on an unsaved wound.
Remnants of Glory: The Diamond Longsword:Ichalis is one with his weapon. Every movement is with purpose - to mangle the enemy. The Diamond Longsword was lost in the depths of the Chasm after the War in Heaven, and only in the dire battle of Velnarae did Ichalis see a mirage of Vaul beckoning him to draw it from its lost sheath. The two spirit stone upon its collar is the memory of Isha's and Kurnous' trapped souls.
Range.....S.....AP.....Type --------.....+3.....2.......Melee, Master-crafted, Two-handed, Vaul's Work
Warlord Trait: Falcon's Swiftness
Special Rules: Ancient Doom
Battle Trance
Fleet
Independent Character
The Path of Strategy
Battle Trance - When Ichalis feels the heat of battle on his skin, his mind drifts into a catatonic state of meditation where he moves with unparalleled agility and alacrity. His Eldar brethren follow in his steps, becoming inspired with fury and grace. Ichalis can either shoot and then run D6+6", or run D6+6" and then shoot. Units from Codex: Eldar that are within 12" during the start of their move add 3" to their normal movement or Run.
I either gave him four wounds because he's supposed to be one of/the protege of Abaddon, or it's a typo and I meant three. I can't remember which it is.
Bobthehero wrote:Chosen of Abaddon?
Is it that much of a deal, really?
In the book he is in its made out to be. Also the fact he is sent with the biggest fleet the BL can muster outside of the 13th black crusade(which amounts to, like, seven ships) to go pick up hundreds of titans including the Castigator.
Rules: Stealth Fearless (For him and squad he's attached to) Move through cover (For him and squad he's attached to) Camouflage (For him and squad he's attached to, including Wolf)
Beastmaster Gunnar can field his trusty pet, a Fenrisian wolf. Wolf can move independently of the rest of the squad, but can't go any further than 30'' away from its master/squad.
Ghost Warrior. When firing under 20'', Gunnar have only 1 attack insted of 2, but can re-roll one missed attack. When firing over 20'', he have 2 attacks and one miss re-roll. All his shots count as "Precision shots".
Blind Rage If wolf dies and Gunnar is still alive, Gunnar temporarily have one additional attack at any distance (Up to rifle's maximum range/CC), his BS is lowered by 2, but S incerased by 1. If Gunnar dies but any of Gunnar's squad is alive, wolf stays on the table. If both Gunnar and his squad are dead, wolf is removed from table.
Fenrisian wolf. (female wolf) Gunnar named it Turanga. Nobody knows how Gunnar managed to aquire it. It's intensivly trained for sharpening and improving its skills.
Weapons: Jaws and claws
Rules: Stealth Fearless Move Through Cover Counter-Attack Acute Senses
Fury of the Wild If wolf manages to kill a target durig its Assault phase, it gains an additional attack. (rule can repeat)
WS 4 BSnope S 5 T 4 W 2 I 6 A 2 Ld 8 Sv 5+
Please, can somebody help me to balance and price this character? Thanks
ok so he's not my own creation, but as there are no rules, and no model for him, i came up with my own(see my gallery for the mini.).
as for the fluff. well thats been covered by the black library
5th edition rules.
profile same as chaos lord.
equipment, power armour, bolter, bolt pistol, frag/krak grenades, demon axe, necron arm(4+invulnerable save).
rules
fearless
independent character
preferred enemy (ultramarines, imperial fists)
stealth
ok so he's not my own creation, but as there are no rules, and no model for him, i came up with my own(see my gallery for the mini.).
as for the fluff. well thats been covered by the black library
5th edition rules.
profile same as chaos lord.
equipment, power armour, bolter, bolt pistol, frag/krak grenades, demon axe, necron arm(4+invulnerable save).
rules
fearless
independent character
preferred enemy (ultramarines, imperial fists)
stealth
cost. 155pts
I suggest that you write out everything. Stats, equipment bonuses, etc.
Ovion wrote: Check my template for making characters.
Man, it's great that you have such a valuable resource located directly in your signature!
No seriously. It's pretty helpful.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spoiler:
Army: Eldar
BG: Representing the Aspect of Khaine's lone fight against Slaanesh, Illinar fights alone in battle. He has no assistance, always alone, and always unaided. A warrior's mindset taken to a dangerous extreme, his followers dedicate themselves to becoming solitary warriors, each standing alone, yet each fighting for the same reason.
Remnants of Glory:
- The Shattered Spear - Crafted eons ago when the Eldar were young, the Shattered Spear is a unique weapon, capable of becoming a rifle or glaive with a flick of the wrist. R: 24" S:6 AP: 1 Type: Heavy 1
R: - S:+1 AP: 1 Type: Melee
Special Rules:
- Ancient Doom
- Battle Focus
- Eternal Warrior
- Fearless
- Fleet
- Relentless
- Infiltrate
Exarch Powers:
- Battle Fortune
- Crushing Blow
Warlord Trait:
- Fate's Messenger
To be honest, I have no idea what I want to do with this character.
Fates messenger is OP on phoenix lords, that's why non have it by default. Also what's the point in having a heavy weapon and then adding relentless, its like you added a draw back, then decided to take it back. I'm thinking is we had a feel for the aspect, the phoenix lord would make more sense. For example would it not be better to have your own exarch power for your aspect? Like maybe if there are no friendly models with in 12 you gain something like rampage? But on the whole, remove 2+ re-rollable and your done.
ALEXisAWESOME wrote: Fates messenger is OP on phoenix lords, that's why non have it by default. Also what's the point in having a heavy weapon and then adding relentless, its like you added a draw back, then decided to take it back. I'm thinking is we had a feel for the aspect, the phoenix lord would make more sense. For example would it not be better to have your own exarch power for your aspect? Like maybe if there are no friendly models with in 12 you gain something like rampage? But on the whole, remove 2+ re-rollable and your done.
To be honest, I don't even know what I was going for with this guy. He is supposed to be run solo, so fates messenger was to help him not die when he charges units by himself. It's a rough draft, I think.
Remnant of Glory: The Diamond Longsword:Ichalis is one with his weapon. Every movement is with purpose - to mangle the enemy. The Diamond Longsword was lost in the depths of the Chasm after the War in Heaven, and only in the dire battle of Velnarae did Ichalis see a mirage of Vaul beckoning him to draw it from its lost sheath. The two spirit stone upon its collar is the memory of Isha's and Kurnous' trapped souls.
Range.....S.....AP.....Type --------.....+3.....2.......Melee, Master-crafted, Two-handed, Vaul's Work
Warlord Trait: Falcon's Swiftness
Special Rules: Ancient Doom
Battle Trance
Fleet
Independent Character
The Path of Strategy
Battle Trance - When Ichalis feels the heat of battle on his skin, his mind drifts into a catatonic state of meditation where he moves with unparalleled agility and alacrity. His Eldar brethren follow in his steps, becoming inspired with fury and grace. Ichalis can either shoot and then run D6+6", or run D6+6" and then shoot. Units from Codex: Eldar that are within 12" during the start of their move add 3" to their normal movement or Run.
Just finished experimental rules for my Chapter Master. Kind of went all out on him, but hey, he's a chapter master with long honed biomancer powers, these things happen. I swear, the rest (except for the Chapter Champion and top battle Librarian) are far more reasonable:
Wargear:
- Creed's Tempest Blade - This is a Master-Crafted Power Sword. It is AP2.
- Storm Shield
- Talisman of Tillistia - The Talisman of Tillistia is an ancient device that is small enough to be worn around the neck yet create powerful shields. In addition, the relic seems to bond with the user's mind, creating the shield only in times of need. The Talisman of Tillistia grants Forte the Eternal Warrior special rule
- Artificer Armor
- 2 Raptor Bolters - Wrist mounted storm bolters, they have been specifically designed to not interfere with the carrying of other things like blades of shields.
- Special Issue Ammunition - Gives Forte access to Hellfire, Veangeance, Dragonfire, and Kraken rounds.
Special Rules:
- And They Shall Know No Fear
- Chapter Tactics: Pressing Strikes
- Orbital Bombardment
- Psyker/Biomancer (Mastery Level 1)
- Independant Character
- Field General
Chapter Tactics: Pressing Strikes - While warriors should be cautious not to overplay their hand, when an advantage presents itself, it ought to be pressed. To-hit rolls of 6 generate further attacks. These attacks may generate further attacks.
Biomancer: Zamiel Forte is a biomancer, but not a varied one, rather his powers are narrow but honed to the peak of their potential. He cannot take powers from the lists of psychic powers in the Big Rule Book, rather, he has the two powers here. He may use one of the two per turn.
For the purposes of targeting, Forte himself is the target of his psychic powers. In addition, his leadership may never be decreased for the purposes of psychic tests (he always takes it on Ld10).
His two powers are:
Into the Fray: Forte focuses power into his body, and mainly into his legs, and leaps towards his opponents. For the turn Forte becomes Fast, and gains the Fleet, Furious Charge, and Hammer of Wrath special rules. He cannot pass any of these special rules to units he is with or joins, though he may join and disengage from units freely anytime he moves within 2" of a friendly unit.
Strength from Within: Power courses through Forte's body, increasing his strength, toughness, and speed. After taking his leadership test, assuming it is successful, subtract that number from 12. You may distribute that number as you please among Forte's strength, toughness, attacks, and initiative, increasing the total by that amount until the start of Forte's next turn. For example, let's say Forte rolls a 6 for his leadership test. He may then distribute those 6 points as he sees fit. For the sake of this example, let us say he distributes 2 points in each of his strength, toughness, and attack values, which are all base value 4. Until the next turn Forte would have Strength, Toughness, and Attack values of 6!
In addition, Forte's biomancy can quickly heal him, forcing his powers to re-knit muscle, bone, organs, and nerve. If Forte succeeds by 6 or more (meaning he rolls a 6 or less on 2d6), he may choose to use 6 of those points to re-knit a single wound, to a maximum of his original 3. However, he may only do this a maximum of three times per game; his body can only heal itself so quickly so often.
Field General - All units within 24" use Forte's leadership as their own.
Warlord Trait:
Strategic Holding - At the beginning of the game, choose a unit, that unit is now troops. In addition, any unit Forte has joined is scoring.
Sorry, gonna be blunt with you DogofWar, but this guy is heinously overpowered. You've hit everything in the checklist:
Eternal Warrior? Check.
Massively overpowered psychic powers? Check.
Healing his wounds for no good reason? Check.
Overpowered Chapter Tactics? Check.
A gamebreaking warlord trait? Check.
This guy has absolutely no weaknesses, and is a complete Mary Sue. I would never consider playing against him or any of your other homebrews if this is what I would come to expect. This guy needs to go back to the drawing board from scratch in a big way.
He's VERY strong 2+ 3++ EW potentially regain a wound a turn hell he's nigh unkillable! Strength from within is ridiculously powerful and his warlord trait is also very strong. I think he's a bit much
Marines are easy to cost. And I have a backlog of characters I said I'd review... But oh well - here it is
DogofWar1 wrote: Just finished experimental rules for my Chapter Master. Kind of went all out on him, but hey, he's a chapter master with long honed biomancer powers, these things happen. I swear, the rest (except for the Chapter Champion and top battle Librarian) are far more reasonable:
Wargear: - Creed's Tempest Blade - This is a Master-Crafted Power Sword. It is AP2. - Storm Shield - Talisman of Tillistia - The Talisman of Tillistia is an ancient device that is small enough to be worn around the neck yet create powerful shields. In addition, the relic seems to bond with the user's mind, creating the shield only in times of need. The Talisman of Tillistia grants Forte the Eternal Warrior special rule - Artificer Armor - 2 Raptor Bolters - Wrist mounted storm bolters, they have been specifically designed to not interfere with the carrying of other things like blades of shields. - Special Issue Ammunition - Gives Forte access to Hellfire, Veangeance, Dragonfire, and Kraken rounds.
Special Rules: - And They Shall Know No Fear - Chapter Tactics: Pressing Strikes - Orbital Bombardment - Psyker/Biomancer (Mastery Level 1) - Independant Character - Field General
Chapter Tactics: Pressing Strikes - While warriors should be cautious not to overplay their hand, when an advantage presents itself, it ought to be pressed. To-hit rolls of 6 generate further attacks. These attacks may generate further attacks.
Biomancer: Zamiel Forte is a biomancer, but not a varied one, rather his powers are narrow but honed to the peak of their potential. He cannot take powers from the lists of psychic powers in the Big Rule Book, rather, he has the two powers here. He may use one of the two per turn. For the purposes of targeting, Forte himself is the target of his psychic powers. In addition, his leadership may never be decreased for the purposes of psychic tests (he always takes it on Ld10). His two powers are: Into the Fray: Forte focuses power into his body, and mainly into his legs, and leaps towards his opponents. For the turn Forte becomes Fast, and gains the Fleet, Furious Charge, and Hammer of Wrath special rules. He cannot pass any of these special rules to units he is with or joins, though he may join and disengage from units freely anytime he moves within 2" of a friendly unit. Strength from Within: Power courses through Forte's body, increasing his strength, toughness, and speed. After taking his leadership test, assuming it is successful, subtract that number from 12. You may distribute that number as you please among Forte's strength, toughness, attacks, and initiative, increasing the total by that amount until the start of Forte's next turn. For example, let's say Forte rolls a 6 for his leadership test. He may then distribute those 6 points as he sees fit. For the sake of this example, let us say he distributes 2 points in each of his strength, toughness, and attack values, which are all base value 4. Until the next turn Forte would have Strength, Toughness, and Attack values of 6! In addition, Forte's biomancy can quickly heal him, forcing his powers to re-knit muscle, bone, organs, and nerve. If Forte succeeds by 6 or more (meaning he rolls a 6 or less on 2d6), he may choose to use 6 of those points to re-knit a single wound, to a maximum of his original 3. However, he may only do this a maximum of three times per game; his body can only heal itself so quickly so often.
Field General - All units within 24" use Forte's leadership as their own.
Warlord Trait: Strategic Holding - At the beginning of the game, choose a unit, that unit is now troops. In addition, any unit Forte has joined is scoring.
For Pressing Strikes, the Incubi Klaivex grants additional attacks on a 6 for each squad for 15pts, with no bonus attacks takable off of those attacks. Assuming 20pts per squad, and a guesstimated average of 6 squads affected by this rule, hence 120pts.
Generally OTT, might say bump it up to 500 in case I missed anything and to make it a nice round number. Though at the end of the day, 1 model on a 25mm base should not rival superheavies for cost.
Fixes wise... Drop Eternal Warrior. Drop the bonus attacks generate bonus attacks. (regular is fine, and that'll make it 90pts instead) Drop Special Issue Ammo. Drop Scouts. Drop Orbital Bombardment Make Strength from Within +1 stat for every 2 'points'. (I think the wound things acceptable actually, as long as I'm reading it right and it costs 6 'points'.)
This'll reduce it by 110 right off the bat to 350.
There's a reason I said I went all out (ie, overboard). I did indeed pull out all the stops, but that's fine, I sort of just threw all the stuff on him and then costed him like Grimnar, full well knowing he'd probably need a rework. Don't worry, he won't be showing up on a tabletop anytime soon, I'm too busy running Grump marines with Jarl Jon J. Tronn and his Cold One mount Ego.
Ovion wrote: Marines are easy to cost.
And I have a backlog of characters I said I'd review...
But oh well...
...
This'll reduce it by 110 right off the bat to 350.
Hmm... I think I'll drop the pressing strikes thing right off the bat (my original plan was to have them standard to the marines at increased cost per marine, probably something like +2 or +3 pts per model kind of like how counter-attack is there as a basic thing for SW). Let's say that's 110 dropped (since he would keep it on his model by itself).
Then I'd drop his WS and BS each by 1. I looked at Grimnar, and didn't realize he was just WS6. I think codex creep for special characters is making 7WS more and more standard, but hey WS 6 is still good.
Then yeah, I'll drop Orbital bombardment, it's not all that super anyway (he needs to be moving, while you'd have to be immobile for it to work). And then shrink Ld bubble to 12" and only make the unit he's currently with scoring.
If I'm going by the things you listed, that'd put him at 290:
100 base SM captain (drop orbital bombardment)
+10 for 1A
+ 15 Armor
+ 15 SS + 35 sword
+ 35 EW + 20 storm bolters and special ammo
+ 35 powers
+ 5 LD bubble (halved cost of 24" bubble, if that's how it's costed)
+ 10 for scoring
+ 10 for personal pressing strikes rule (not army wide)
= 290 pts.
For good measure Strength from Within gets dropped from "12 minus 2d6" to "10 minus 2d6." Makes it so instead of averaging 5 points to distribute and needing only a slightly better than average 2d6 roll to re-knit, you average only 3 points and have to roll a 4 on 2d6 to re-knit, meaning it's not particularly likely on any given turn.
Still crazy over the top, but hey, he's my OP as heck baby.
curran12 wrote: Well if oyu're not even interested in balancing him, why are you even posting this here?
The character is disgustingly overpowered and still is.
I didn't say I wasn't interested in balancing him, I just said I recognized he'd need a rework, of which last post was a draft. If I wasn't I wouldn't have done anything and just ignored Ovion. I actually addressed everything you mentioned in your post to some extent, except EW, which he's paying for.
Ovion, out of curiosity for a different character, how much does taking away Independant Character (turning a special character into a MC more or less) change the points cost? Thanks.
Also, Captain Wright, biker: 205 pts
Spoiler:
WS6 BS5 S4 T5 I5 A3 Ld10 Sv2+
Wargear: Artificer Armor, Iron Halo, Space Marine Bike, Blade of Rileton (among other standard SM captain stuff)
Blade of Rileton: This ancient sword is covered in spiraling teeth. The moment the weapon enters its prey, the teeth grab hold and quickly shred the insides of the enemy. Range: melee, S: +1, AP: 3, Special Rules: Specialist weapon, rending
Special Rules: ATSKNF IC (may join bikes only) Pressing Strikes (personal rule, not unit or army) Makes bike squads of 6+ bikes (attack bikes included in total) troops.
Warlord trait: Roll on table
Cost overview: SM Captain: 100 pts Artificer Armor: 15 pts Bike: 35 pts (includes +1T from bike) Pressing strikes (personal): 10 pts Makes bikes troops: 10 pts (included in SM + bike normally but I'll add 10) Blade: 35 pts - frost weapon +25, rending +10 Total: 205 pts
As a general rule, everything is costed at +/-10pts unless something established gives it a cost (Such as Artificer Armours +1sv being +15, or Eternal Warrior being +35).
For MC it's a bit... iffy.
Maybe I'll write up an 'in depth' Character Creation guide and include it in my sig....
If there's still room in my sig...
I was mainly thinking about that based on Mephiston. I mean, he's got a MC statline and runs around on his own, but he lacked the ability to embed himself behind meat shields many people used all 5th edition, and can't put himself at the back of a unit in 6th for protection. I'm trying to think what Mephiston would cost with IC, and it's probably like 300 points.
Also, it's probably one of those things where you'd have to take into account the character's hardiness; obviously a character MC with EW would get less of a discount off it's IC variant than a character MC without EW.
Corien Sumatris is a character from the FW Badab War books; the Captain of the 2nd Company Astral Claws. He went missing in the last battles of the war, and was assumed dead. What if he escaped?
Codex: Chaos Space Marines
195 points
Type: Infantry (character)
Composition: 1 (unique)
WS7 BS4 S4 T4 W3 I5 A3 Ld10 Sv3+
Wargear: power armor, frag and krak grenades
Shield: Sumatris' customary storm shield was lost during his escape from Badab Primaris. He replaced it with a cruder, iron shield with a force field similar to that used in Terminator armour. Provides a 4+ invulnerable save, takes up 1 hand, cannot be used as an additional close combat weapon.
Spectre pattern bolter: Formerly mounted on a servo arm, now melded into his armor by Chaos. It seems to have a mind of its own. Range 12 S4 AP5 Assault 2 Get's Hot Rending Interceptor
Goldenfang: Power sword. Master crafted. Grants +2 attacks on the charge instead of +1.
Special Rules: Independent Character, Fearless
Master Swordsman: All friendly units within 12 inches from the same detachment gain +1 WS.
CalasTyphon216 wrote: Corien Sumatris is a character from the FW Badab War books; the Captain of the 2nd Company Astral Claws. He went missing in the last battles of the war, and was assumed dead. What if he escaped?
Codex: Chaos Space Marines
195 points
Type: Infantry (character)
Composition: 1 (unique)
WS7 BS4 S4 T4 W3 I5 A3 Ld10 Sv3+
Wargear: power armor, frag and krak grenades
Shield: Sumatris' customary storm shield was lost during his escape from Badab Primaris. He replaced it with a cruder, iron shield with a force field similar to that used in Terminator armour. Provides a 4+ invulnerable save, takes up 1 hand, cannot be used as an additional close combat weapon.
Spectre pattern bolter: Formerly mounted on a servo arm, now melded into his armor by Chaos. It seems to have a mind of its own. Range 12 S4 AP5 Assault 2 Get's Hot Rending Interceptor
Goldenfang: Power sword. Master crafted. Grants +2 attacks on the charge instead of +1.
Special Rules: Independent Character, Fearless
Master Swordsman: All friendly units within 12 inches from the same detachment gain +1 WS.
I would say that you could keep his cost at 165 points as he gets a worse invulnerable and looses his digitwl weapons but a slightly better shooting weapon instead. Yu could even shave a point or two of him as you loose the command squad.
Unit: The Emperor Per: 655, Models: 1 (Unique), Unit Type: Infantry
WS9 BS8 S7 T7 W5 I7 A5 Ld10 Sv2+
Wargear:
- Golden Armor - 2+ armor save and 3+ Invulnerable save
- Sword of Mankind - S: +1 AP:1 Type: Melee, Soulblaze, Force
- The Emperor's Talon - S: +3 AP:3 Type: Melee, Shred, Armorbane, Force
Special Rules:
- Psyker (Mastery Level 6) - The Emperor may generate psychic powers from any table in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.
- The Ultimate Psyker - Aside from the most powerful of Tzeentch's daemons, the Emperor has proven time and again that he is the most powerful psyker in the galaxy. The Emperor may re-roll any failed Psychic Tests and is never afflicted by Perils of the Warp. The Emperor and his unit Deny the Witch on the roll of 2+ and all units within 12" gain the Adamantium Will rule. The Emperor may manifest up to three Witchfire powers each turn.
- Emperor (Independent Character, Eternal Warrior, Fear, Adamantium Will, Fleet, Fearless, It Will Not Die, Master of Humanity)
- Master of Humanity - The Emperor may pick up to two warlord traits from the Warlord Trait table from the main warhammer 40,000 rulebook or the Horus Heresy Space Marine Legion warlord trait table. In addition, the following benefits apply to the entire army:
-- All models gain +1 Leadership. If they are already Leadership 10 before this bonus, they gain the Fearless rule.
-- An army containing the Emperor may seize the initiative on a roll of 4+.
- Precision Bombardment - R: Unlimited S:10 AP:2 Type: Ordnance 1, Lance, Large Blast, twin-linked
Pyralis Agis, Chapter Master of the Black Cell - 210 points
WS...BS...S...T...W...I...A...Ld...Sv ..6.......8....4...4....3...5...3..10....3+
Composition: 1 (Unique)
Wargear:
- Frag and Krak Grenades
- Bolt Pistol
- Titan-pattern Sniper Rifle - A massive sniper rifle designed to penetrate the armor found on transports and annihilate a person within, this rifle far exceeds the weight any normal human could ever carry. Built from the ground up by the Techmarines of the Black Cell after encountering Tau and Eldar transports, this weapon utilizes gravitic impeller technology usually found in the Hellrifles of the Inquisition to greater effect.[i]
Range...Str...AP..Type
..60"........8......1....Rapid Fire, Lance
- Recon Power Armor - [i]Also specially developed by the Black Cell, this armor contains a thin layer of fabric over the power armor that absorbs light. In addition to the 3+ armor save, this armor grants Pyralis the Shrouded rule.
- Camo Cloak
Special Rules
- Scout
- Infiltrate
- Stealth
- Eagle Eye - Pyralis's skill is a combination of bionics, skill, and a supersonic weapon, allowing him to target individual persons and putting them down before others can hear the retort of the rifle. All of Pyralis's shots are Precision Shots. On a 6 to hit, Look Out, Sir! rolls may not be taken against that shot. If firing at a transport that has a unit embarked upon it, a roll of 6 to hit instead automatically hits one model inside, chosen at random. In addition, if firing at flyers, his weapon counts as being twin-linked.
So there we go. Super special snowflake #412388993. Oh, and he has Eternal Warrior and FnP (2+)
As Hive Fleet Leviathan continues it's rampage into the Octarius system, the Orks find the empire's coreworlds under attack. The Tyranids have reached Octarius itself and transformed the planet into a global-war. Both races have thrown everything into the fight and the entire world is locked in battle.
Blaktoof is the ruling Warboss of the system and one of the most dangerous Orks in the galaxy. Unusually cunning for a Greenskin, he is orchestrating the Orkish defense and keeping the 'Nids locked in as reinforcements pour into the area.
A born survivor, Blaktoof has been hunted by entire broods of Lictors and lived to show off about it.
WS5 BS2 S5 T5 W4 I4 A4 Ld9 Sv6+
Wargear: Blaktoof wears a simple set of camo pants and a bomber jacket. He wields a pair of Gutrippas, a Kombi-Skorcha and when the time calls for it, his signature weapon 'Blitznik'. He also carries Stikkbommz and a Bosspole.
Gutrippas: A simple set of blades lashed onto both wrists, leaving both hands free to carry the Kombi Skorcha. Type:Melee, S:User, AP:6, Shred. Blaktoof gains +1 attack for wielding 2 weapons.
'Blitznik': A Choppa of terrifying proportions that is always seen on his person but only used in the most dramatic situations, Type:Melee/Specialist, S:User+2, AP2, Trophy Kill.
Special Rules:
- Independent Character
- Mob Rule
- Furious Charge
- Preferred Enemy (Tyranids)
- Hatred (Lictors)
- Paranoia saves lives: The Hive Mind appreciates the importance of Blaktoof to the fate of Octarius and has spent no small number of Lictors to remove him. The result is a complete inability to lower his guard. Blaktoof has a 4+ Invulnerable save. However he may never make a Run move when inside forested terrain.
- Trophy Kill: The long months of war on Octarius have seen more than a few monsters murder all his Nobz, leaving Blaktoof to face them alone. These are the only times when he will draw the obnoxiously oversized Choppa 'Blitznik' and resolve the issue with brutal finality.
Blaktoof wields his Gutrippas in the majority of cases. However if he is involved in a combat including an enemy Monstrous Creature, he must declare a challenge. This can only be accepted by the monster in question even if it not normally considered a character. For the duration of the challenge Blaktoof gains the Eternal Warrior special rule. Every monster dispatched in such a challenge is worth 1VP to the Ork player if Blaktoof survives the game.
Warlord Trait: Sneaky Git. Blaktoof grants D3 infantry units the ability to Outflank.
To be honest, I'm not entirely up to snuff on the emperor's abilities and how he stacks up against primarchs. I didn't know if he was more or less powerful than primarchs, even without his psychic powers.
To be honest, I'm not entirely up to snuff on the emperor's abilities and how he stacks up against primarchs. I didn't know if he was more or less powerful than primarchs, even without his psychic powers.
Empy is vastly more powerful than the Primarchs. After all, he created them as his ultimate weapons. Theres an old proverb that 'the only thing better than your weapons is your armor'. He would not have made them more powerful than himself. It is hinted after all that he was going to variously discard them after the successful completion of the crusade
An rather expensive character I've been messing around with. Pricing spoilered but I think I did it right this time
Warpsmith Maya Dreston (Count-as Daemon Prince)-350
WS9 BS5 S6 T6 W4 I9 A5 Ld9 Sv3+
Unit Type-Flying Monstrous Creature
Special Rules
Fearless, VotLW Mark of Khorne (Furious Charge, Rage)
IWND
Wargear
Jump Pack (Wings)
Extensive Improvements-Dreston has gone through intensive modifications, with body parts and organs being replaced with much better mechanical parts. However it didn't stop there and soon she adding enhancements, weapons and other, more abstract, things. Soon she towered over other members of the Iron Angels of Khorne warband. A fearsome sight to behold, mechtendrils dance around her with minds of their own, eyes glowing a blood red and most of her body was covered in a dark grey metal that did not shine or gleam.
Extensive Improvements grants Dreston, a 3+/5++ as well as +1T (included in the profile) and IWND
Mechtendrils- as well as granting +2 attacks, they also give her a pair of heavy flamers as well as the master of machinery special rule
Fleshmetal Claws-Dreston's hands have been replaced with metal claws, dextrous enough to manipulate delicate machinery but sharp enough to rip through armour
Melee S User AP3 Shred, Rending, Specialist Weapon
Master of Machinery-A warpsmith of unparalleled ability, Dreston can identify and repair any battlefield damage, even while the fight rages around her
At the beginning of the shooting phase Dreston may attempt to repair any unit with hull points she is in base contact with. Roll a D6 and on a 5+ restore a single hull point, repair an immobilized or a weapon destroyed result. This is done in exchange for not firing a single shooting weapon.
Spoiler:
Daemon prince 145
daemon of khorne +15
rage +5
power armour +20
wings +40
+ 1T +10
IWND +15
2 heavy flamers +30
mechtendrils +10
fleshmetal claws +35
master of machinery +25
Re-re-repost. To be fair though, they were in different places
Phoenix Lord Zandros, The bladed Hurricane. 240pts?
Ws8
Bs8
S4
T4
W3
I8
A4
Ld10
Save 2+
For the record, bump in stats aren't because this phoenix lord is better then the others. Its because I think all phoenix lords should have this stat line. They should be better in combat then a lowly Archon and at least match an assassin.
Wargear. Phoenix armour, plasma grenades,
Remnants of glory
Slicing Orbs of Zandros. Ancient, battered silver orbs are inset into the phoenix lords amour. When battle calls these orbs, beckoned by Zandros's psykic stimuli, begin to orbit Zandros akin to a small moon. Zandros then orders the orbs to fly amongst the seething masses of interlopers and then they explode in a scintillating flash of blades which leaves enemies in bloody chunks.
Range18 Str 5 Ap -assault 2,blast, pinning, rending.
or Range Melee, Strength +1, Ap -, rending, Bladed rotation*
* Zandros inflicts an automatic hit on any enemy model in base contact with him, as well as making his normal attacks.
Warlord traint: Mark of the incomparable hunter
Special Rules:
Ancient doom, battle focus, Eternal warrior, Fearless, Fear, Fleet, Independent character, Psyker (mastery level 2), SoulFire.
SoulFire.Every phoenix lord's armour invariably contains the souls of thousands of powerful exarchs, each spirit coalesced into the greater spirit of the armour much akin to a miniature infinity circuit. This gives the phoenix lord a deep well of psykic power to draw upon with surrounds the Lords warp shadow in blazing soulfire which absorbs and reflects foul Magiks,
The phoenix lord has the Adamantium Will USR and for each successful deny the witch attempted rolled by the phoenix lord the psyker that attempted the power must take a blinding test, as well as any enemy daemons or psykers within 6 inches.
Can only choose powers on the telekinesis table.
Exarch Powers
Fast shot, Course of blades*
Grants a 4+ cover save to Exarch against any weapon blow strength 8, by way of the mystical orbs blocking the blow or obscuring the target.
The Aspect has been mentioned a few times and I think they deserve a phoenix lord. I imagine the aspect to use there psykic powers to levitate bladed spinning orbs to throw at the enemy of use in combat. I figured that 3 small blasts at AP - wont be OP, and his melee is decidedly worse then all the other lords, but the real difference is the level 2 psyker, of a fairly mediocre table, but its still a big difference. I think all phoenix lords should get SoulFire and Fear because of there towering psykic presence. Each eldar soul is a psyker, and a phoenix lord is made up of thousands of them.
Not entirely sure on the price though, maybe someone could help me out? I mean there isn't a point value for a base phoenix lord so im out on a leap for pricing,
Hive Fleet Lazarus wrote: An rather expensive character I've been messing around with. Pricing spoilered but I think I did it right this time
Warpsmith Maya Dreston (Count-as Daemon Prince)-340
WS9 BS5 S6 T6 W4 I9 A5 Ld9 Sv3+
Unit Type-Flying Monstrous Creature
Special Rules
Fearless, VotLW Mark of Khorne (Furious Charge, Rage)
IWND
Wargear
Jump Pack (Wings)
Extensive Improvements-Dreston has gone through intensive modifications, with body parts and organs being replaced with much better mechanical parts. However it didn't stop there and soon she adding enhancements, weapons and other, more abstract, things. Soon she towered over other members of the Iron Angels of Khorne warband. A fearsome sight to behold, mechtendrils dance around her with minds of their own, eyes glowing a blood red and most of her body was covered in a dark grey metal that did not shine or gleam.
Extensive Improvements grants Dreston, a 3+/5++ as well as +1T (included in the profile) and IWND
Mechtendrils- as well as granting +2 attacks, they also give her a pair of heavy flamers as well as the master of machinery special rule
Fleshmetal Claws-Dreston's hands have been replaced with metal claws, dextrous enough to manipulate delicate machinery but sharp enough to rip through armour
Melee S User AP3 Shred, Rending, Specialist Weapon
Master of Machinery-A warpsmith of unparalleled ability, Dreston can identify and repair any battlefield damage, even while the fight rages around her
At the beginning of the shooting phase Dreston may attempt to repair any unit with hull points she is in base contact with. Roll a D6 and on a 5+ restore a single hull point, repair an immobilized or a weapon destroyed result. This is done in exchange for not firing a single shooting weapon.
Spoiler:
Daemon prince 145
daemon of khorne +15
rage +5
power armour +20
wings +40
+ 1T +10
IWND +15
2 heavy flamers +20
mechtendrils +10
fleshmetal claws +35
master of machinery +25
Heavy flamers are 15pts per, not 10. (10 on terminators, but their weapons get a 'discount' for being terminators... or 20pts if you ask certain other Codexes. But 15 here.)
This would make it 350.
Otherwise... costing seems fairly straight forward and accurate at a glance.
My only other question is, why is it a female mreen?
No problem with fem-mreens, just like to know the how of it.
ALEXisAWESOME wrote: Re-re-repost. To be fair though, they were in different places
Phoenix Lord Zandros, The bladed Hurricane. 240pts?
Spoiler:
Ws8
Bs8
S4
T4
W3
I8
A4
Ld10
Save 2+
For the record, bump in stats aren't because this phoenix lord is better then the others. Its because I think all phoenix lords should have this stat line. They should be better in combat then a lowly Archon and at least match an assassin.
Wargear. Phoenix armour, plasma grenades,
Remnants of glory
Slicing Orbs of Zandros. Ancient, battered silver orbs are inset into the phoenix lords amour. When battle calls these orbs, beckoned by Zandros's psykic stimuli, begin to orbit Zandros akin to a small moon. Zandros then orders the orbs to fly amongst the seething masses of interlopers and then they explode in a scintillating flash of blades which leaves enemies in bloody chunks.
Range18 Str 5 Ap -assault 2,blast, pinning, rending.
or Range Melee, Strength +1, Ap -, rending, Bladed rotation*
* Zandros inflicts an automatic hit on any enemy model in base contact with him, as well as making his normal attacks.
Warlord traint: Mark of the incomparable hunter
Special Rules:
Ancient doom, battle focus, Eternal warrior, Fearless, Fear, Fleet, Independent character, Psyker (mastery level 2), SoulFire.
SoulFire.Every phoenix lord's armour invariably contains the souls of thousands of powerful exarchs, each spirit coalesced into the greater spirit of the armour much akin to a miniature infinity circuit. This gives the phoenix lord a deep well of psykic power to draw upon with surrounds the Lords warp shadow in blazing soulfire which absorbs and reflects foul Magiks,
The phoenix lord has the Adamantium Will USR and for each successful deny the witch attempted rolled by the phoenix lord the psyker that attempted the power must take a blinding test, as well as any enemy daemons or psykers within 6 inches.
Can only choose powers on the telekinesis table.
Exarch Powers
Fast shot, Course of blades*
Grants a 4+ cover save to Exarch against any weapon blow strength 8, by way of the mystical orbs blocking the blow or obscuring the target.
The Aspect has been mentioned a few times and I think they deserve a phoenix lord. I imagine the aspect to use there psykic powers to levitate bladed spinning orbs to throw at the enemy of use in combat. I figured that 3 small blasts at AP - wont be OP, and his melee is decidedly worse then all the other lords, but the real difference is the level 2 psyker, of a fairly mediocre table, but its still a big difference. I think all phoenix lords should get SoulFire and Fear because of there towering psykic presence. Each eldar soul is a psyker, and a phoenix lord is made up of thousands of them.
Not entirely sure on the price though, maybe someone could help me out? I mean there isn't a point value for a base phoenix lord so im out on a leap for pricing,
Hive Fleet Lazarus wrote: An rather expensive character I've been messing around with. Pricing spoilered but I think I did it right this time
Warpsmith Maya Dreston (Count-as Daemon Prince)-350
WS9 BS5 S6 T6 W4 I9 A5 Ld9 Sv3+
Unit Type-Flying Monstrous Creature
Special Rules
Fearless, VotLW Mark of Khorne (Furious Charge, Rage)
IWND
Wargear
Jump Pack (Wings)
Extensive Improvements-Dreston has gone through intensive modifications, with body parts and organs being replaced with much better mechanical parts. However it didn't stop there and soon she adding enhancements, weapons and other, more abstract, things. Soon she towered over other members of the Iron Angels of Khorne warband. A fearsome sight to behold, mechtendrils dance around her with minds of their own, eyes glowing a blood red and most of her body was covered in a dark grey metal that did not shine or gleam.
Extensive Improvements grants Dreston, a 3+/5++ as well as +1T (included in the profile) and IWND
Mechtendrils- as well as granting +2 attacks, they also give her a pair of heavy flamers as well as the master of machinery special rule
Fleshmetal Claws-Dreston's hands have been replaced with metal claws, dextrous enough to manipulate delicate machinery but sharp enough to rip through armour
Melee S User AP3 Shred, Rending, Specialist Weapon
Master of Machinery-A warpsmith of unparalleled ability, Dreston can identify and repair any battlefield damage, even while the fight rages around her
At the beginning of the shooting phase Dreston may attempt to repair any unit with hull points she is in base contact with. Roll a D6 and on a 5+ restore a single hull point, repair an immobilized or a weapon destroyed result. This is done in exchange for not firing a single shooting weapon.
Spoiler:
Daemon prince 145
daemon of khorne +15
rage +5
power armour +20
wings +40
+ 1T +10
IWND +15
2 heavy flamers +20
mechtendrils +10
fleshmetal claws +35
master of machinery +25
Heavy flamers are 15pts per, not 10. (10 on terminators, but their weapons get a 'discount' for being terminators... or 20pts if you ask certain other Codexes. But 15 here.)
This would make it 350.
Otherwise... costing seems fairly straight forward and accurate at a glance.
My only other question is, why is it a female mreen?
No problem with fem-mreens, just like to know the how of it.
350, fixed thanks
And not female marines. I've been working on corrupted SoB dedicated to Khorne, sort of a cross between the iron warriors and world eaters, high tech and bloodthristy rage. However they shun working with daemons so besides this character I'm working on count as bloodletters, mindless robots with swords
Bladed Rotation: Zandros always hits his attacks on a 2+. He always has five attacks.
I think Zandros shouldn't attack with his arms at all - his psychic powers throw the orbs at the enemy.
I think this would overlap onto the warp spiders roll of large amount of strength 6 shots, who in all fairness, do it better. So I though for the weapon would be a few small blast at strength 5 with rending & pinning so he isn't that good against vehicles (not worthless, roll a 6 to pen and that rhino is going down!) and only so-so against elite infantry. In melee I wanted him to be an attack power house, but with again, bad AP. But I didn't want to do the obvious he gets an auto hit on everyone in base contact because that would not allow precision shots, and I think hitting on 2's Is a Kharn thing ^^
Can I get some review, using the template this time around. Shameless repost.
Nilath Keeper of the Dead:
Spoiler:
Army: Eldar
BG:Nilath was a council Farseer of the craft world Ctho. The world long empty of many living bodies drifts through the void of the galaxy battle hungry fueled by fire. During a grand campaign against an Imperium farm sector to reclaim lost exodite worlds and more importantly the sacred relic named justly "keeper of the dead." During the final battle atop a sunken Eldar shrine Nilath was struck down during his time with perils of the warp. The space marine captain pulled the glowing claws from Nilath's body as Nilath's mind fought a greater demon of the ancient foe. The mighty wraith constructs drove the marines back, and Nilath was carried into the temple bleeding and still fighting the demon. He was laid on an ancient alter even by Eldar standards where the Keeper of the Dead chose him. The relic wraith construct suit came to life under the alter and crabbed Nilath. It ripped his soul from his body and his mind. Along with the daemon. Leaving him in limbo of half dead and half a live where can talk on both planes of existence.
FO: HQ Squad: N/A
Unit: Nilath Keeper of the Dead Points Per: 175pts, Models: 1 unique , Unit Type: Independent Character,,
WS 5, BS 5, S 5, T 6, W3 , I 5, A 2, Ld 10, Sv 3+.
Wargear: Death Talker
Special Rules:
Fearless
Ancient Foe
Psychic Mastery Level 2
Spirit Mark
Spirit Wraith
Options:
N/A
Spirit Wraith - Nilath's body is a wraith construct. He benefits from the spirit mark rule.
Keeper of the Dead - Nilath watches over the dead protecting their spirits in the warp and their bodies in the world of the living; speaking to them and to the living acting as a translator. However, the demon is always attacking his mind trying to claw free. All wraith constructs within 12" of Nilath gain the feel no pain universal rule including Nilath.
Nilath use to be a farseer, and hasn't lost his powers completely. Nilath constantly casts a warp field to protect his mind from continious assualt and give breath between the internal deamon's attacks. Nilath's save is invulnerable. Nilath can also roll for two powers on the Eldar codex "runes of battle" table.
Internal Enemy - During the time Nilath casts a psychic power his protective field fluctuates. If Nilath perils on a psychic test he suffers two wounds instead of 1. He may spend a warp charge point to prevent the second wound. At the start of each turn roll a D6 on the roll of a 1 Nilath's field has failed, and the demon has returned to his mind. Nilath can not cast powers this turn, and loses his invulnerable save.
Death Talker: Range 18" Strength 10, Ap 2, Assualt 3, Distort
Vo'rah Zek War Master of the Dead:
Spoiler:
Army: Eldar
BG:Vo'rah died during a Necron dynasty war on the outer fringe of the Eldar empire before the great fall. His soul preserved in a large stone he slumbered waiting for his wraith body to form a new at his dying wish. He awoke to the screams of the dying and feeling thousands of souls shatter in an instant. He grabbed the souls of those working around him pulling them into the various stones on his Wraith lord body. He saved only but a few, and watched into the warp the horror of the old foe devour the spirits of the Eldar race. The foe came after him and nearly devoured him if it were not for the efforts of the few he saved. They poured their energies into a pool focusing their powers into a portal to spirit walk. Ripping a hole into the warp Vo'rah walked in with jaws of hunger at the back of his mind tugging. There in the warp he saw the face of this new found enemy. It licked its perfect lips ready to devour him and lunged for him. In the split instant of almost being eaten the portal opened again throwing Vo'rah across the galaxy on an Exodite world. Where in orbit the Ctho's craft world floated hungry for war and Vo'rah hungry for revenge.
FO: HQ Squad: N/A
Unit: Nilath Keeper of the Dead Points Per: 215pts, Models: 1 unique , Unit Type: Monstrous Creature Character,
WS 4, BS 5, S 8, T 8, W5 , I 5, A 3, Ld 10, Sv 3+.
Spirit Walk - Take a psychic power test on perils roll a d6 on the roll of a 1 Vo'rah is sucked into the warp to be spit out elsewhere (he dies for the purpose of game victory points). If the power successfully casts Vo'rah and a select ally wraith unit within 12" deep strike somewhere else on the map.
First place Vo'rah and roll scatter for him. Then place the wraith unit within six inches of Vo'rah they do not scatter. If Vo'rah mishaps on the deep strike, roll result, but still place the wraith unit anywhere within six inches of Vo'rah's original location.
Warp Armor - Armor of the forbidden armory that was crafted during the great fall. It soul stones full of the workers that were crafting it at the time of the fall. It is said the bone singers who died working on the wraith lord construct can talk still singing their song to the lords bones repairing him and even enhance the constuct for a a brief moment preventing the most devistating of blows. Warp armor confers a 3+ invulnerable save and the Spirit Walk rule.
I kinda feel like the second ones points are slightly off. Let me know! It is based off a wraith lord construct.
cormadepanda wrote: Can I get some review, using the template this time around. Shameless repost.
Nilath Keeper of the Dead:
Spoiler:
Army: Eldar BG:Nilath was a council Farseer of the craft world Ctho. The world long empty of many living bodies drifts through the void of the galaxy battle hungry fueled by fire. During a grand campaign against an Imperium farm sector to reclaim lost exodite worlds and more importantly the sacred relic named justly "keeper of the dead." During the final battle atop a sunken Eldar shrine Nilath was struck down during his time with perils of the warp. The space marine captain pulled the glowing claws from Nilath's body as Nilath's mind fought a greater demon of the ancient foe. The mighty wraith constructs drove the marines back, and Nilath was carried into the temple bleeding and still fighting the demon. He was laid on an ancient alter even by Eldar standards where the Keeper of the Dead chose him. The relic wraith construct suit came to life under the alter and crabbed Nilath. It ripped his soul from his body and his mind. Along with the daemon. Leaving him in limbo of half dead and half a live where can talk on both planes of existence.
FO: HQ Squad: N/A Unit: Nilath Keeper of the Dead Points Per: 175pts, Models: 1 unique , Unit Type: Independent Character,, WS 5, BS 5, S 5, T 6, W3 , I 5, A 2, Ld 10, Sv 3+.
Wargear: Death Talker
Special Rules: Fearless Ancient Foe Psychic Mastery Level 2 Spirit Mark Spirit Wraith Options: N/A
Spirit Wraith - Nilath's body is a wraith construct. He benefits from the spirit mark rule.
Keeper of the Dead - Nilath watches over the dead protecting their spirits in the warp and their bodies in the world of the living; speaking to them and to the living acting as a translator. However, the demon is always attacking his mind trying to claw free. All wraith constructs within 12" of Nilath gain the feel no pain universal rule including Nilath.
Nilath use to be a farseer, and hasn't lost his powers completely. Nilath constantly casts a warp field to protect his mind from continious assualt and give breath between the internal deamon's attacks. Nilath's save is invulnerable. Nilath can also roll for two powers on the Eldar codex "runes of battle" table.
Internal Enemy - During the time Nilath casts a psychic power his protective field fluctuates. If Nilath perils on a psychic test he suffers two wounds instead of 1. He may spend a warp charge point to prevent the second wound. At the start of each turn roll a D6 on the roll of a 1 Nilath's field has failed, and the demon has returned to his mind. Nilath can not cast powers this turn, and loses his invulnerable save.
Death Talker: Range 18" Strength 10, Ap 2, Assualt 3, Distort
Vo'rah Zek War Master of the Dead:
Spoiler:
Army: Eldar BG:Vo'rah died during a Necron dynasty war on the outer fringe of the Eldar empire before the great fall. His soul preserved in a large stone he slumbered waiting for his wraith body to form a new at his dying wish. He awoke to the screams of the dying and feeling thousands of souls shatter in an instant. He grabbed the souls of those working around him pulling them into the various stones on his Wraith lord body. He saved only but a few, and watched into the warp the horror of the old foe devour the spirits of the Eldar race. The foe came after him and nearly devoured him if it were not for the efforts of the few he saved. They poured their energies into a pool focusing their powers into a portal to spirit walk. Ripping a hole into the warp Vo'rah walked in with jaws of hunger at the back of his mind tugging. There in the warp he saw the face of this new found enemy. It licked its perfect lips ready to devour him and lunged for him. In the split instant of almost being eaten the portal opened again throwing Vo'rah across the galaxy on an Exodite world. Where in orbit the Ctho's craft world floated hungry for war and Vo'rah hungry for revenge.
FO: HQ Squad: N/A Unit: Nilath Keeper of the Dead Points Per: 215pts, Models: 1 unique , Unit Type: Monstrous Creature Character, WS 4, BS 5, S 8, T 8, W5 , I 5, A 3, Ld 10, Sv 3+.
Spirit Walk - Take a psychic power test on perils roll a d6 on the roll of a 1 Vo'rah is sucked into the warp to be spit out elsewhere (he dies for the purpose of game victory points). If the power successfully casts Vo'rah and a select ally wraith unit within 12" deep strike somewhere else on the map. First place Vo'rah and roll scatter for him. Then place the wraith unit within six inches of Vo'rah they do not scatter. If Vo'rah mishaps on the deep strike, roll result, but still place the wraith unit anywhere within six inches of Vo'rah's original location.
Warp Armor - Armor of the forbidden armory that was crafted during the great fall. It soul stones full of the workers that were crafting it at the time of the fall. It is said the bone singers who died working on the wraith lord construct can talk still singing their song to the lords bones repairing him and even enhance the constuct for a a brief moment preventing the most devistating of blows. Warp armor confers a 3+ invulnerable save and the Spirit Walk rule.
I kinda feel like the second ones points are slightly off. Let me know! It is based off a wraith lord construct.
The first one needs to have his weapons listed in his wargear section. He should also be the Cost of a Farseer + Wraithguard+two more of their weapons.
The second one should be at least 275. It's a wraithlord with a 3++. That easily doubles the survivability, and therefore the cost. Wraithlord - 120 Two D-Cannons - 50 Spiritseer - 70 Storm Shield - 30 Ghost Glaive - 5
so about 275. Wow. And I didn't even do the math when I said 275 the first time. I'm a magic point costing machine.
Remnant of Glory: The Diamond Longsword:Ichalis is one with his weapon. Every movement is with purpose - to mangle the enemy. The Diamond Longsword was lost in the depths of the Chasm after the War in Heaven, and only in the dire battle of Velnarae did Ichalis see a mirage of Vaul beckoning him to draw it from its lost sheath. The two spirit stone upon its collar is the memory of Isha's and Kurnous' trapped souls.
Range.....S.....AP.....Type --------.....+3.....2.......Melee, Master-crafted, Two-handed, Vaul's Work
Warlord Trait: Falcon's Swiftness
Special Rules: Ancient Doom
Battle Trance
Fleet
Independent Character
The Path of Strategy
Battle Trance - When Ichalis feels the heat of battle on his skin, his mind drifts into a catatonic state of meditation where he moves with unparalleled agility and alacrity. His Eldar brethren follow in his steps, becoming inspired with fury and grace. Ichalis can either shoot and then run D6+6", or run D6+6" and then shoot. Units from Codex: Eldar that are within 12" during the start of their move add 3" to their normal movement or Run.
Remnant of Glory: The Diamond Longsword:Ichalis is one with his weapon. Every movement is with purpose - to mangle the enemy. The Diamond Longsword was lost in the depths of the Chasm after the War in Heaven, and only in the dire battle of Velnarae did Ichalis see a mirage of Vaul beckoning him to draw it from its lost sheath. The two spirit stone upon its collar is the memory of Isha's and Kurnous' trapped souls.
Range.....S.....AP.....Type --------.....+3.....2.......Melee, Master-crafted, Two-handed, Vaul's Work
Warlord Trait: Falcon's Swiftness
Special Rules: Ancient Doom
Battle Trance
Fleet
Independent Character
The Path of Strategy
Battle Trance - When Ichalis feels the heat of battle on his skin, his mind drifts into a catatonic state of meditation where he moves with unparalleled agility and alacrity. His Eldar brethren follow in his steps, becoming inspired with fury and grace. Ichalis can either shoot and then run D6+6", or run D6+6" and then shoot. Units from Codex: Eldar that are within 12" during the start of their move add 3" to their normal movement or Run.
This guy is right in the border of broken, probably a few steps on the broken side of it.
His weapon is right off the scales as far as overpowered goes. S6, AP2 with instant death? Yeah. You ain't never gonna get away with that. Especially with the way his attacks, WS and I are stacked up.
Likewise, his army-wide ability is too much. Drop the 12" bubble of extra movement and then it is a little more toned down and reasonable.
But to use Ovion's points guide with a few guesses for things I can't really manage:
Base Autarch with the codex gear listed: 90
+1 WS : 10
+1 I: 10
+2 A: 20
Sword (base cost of the Vaul's Work sword being 40) with AP2: Guessing it to be about +25 (5 per AP) for a total of 65
Guaranteed Warlord Trait: 10
Massive personal speed buff: 20(?)
Army-wide speed buff: 20(?)
Autarch: 70
+1 W: 10
+1 I: 10
+1 A: 10
Auto-ambush of blades: 20 (Falcon's Swiftness sucks anyway?)
No shuriken pistol or haywire grenades: -5
Spear of Twilight: 20 for AP3, 30 for fleshbane armourbane
Eye of Wrath: 10 for large blast, 20 for S6, 20 for AP3
= 215.
And just another pointer the extra attack is because the sword is two-handed, better -10 for that.
Remnant of Glory: The Diamond Longsword:Ichalis is one with his weapon. Every movement is with purpose - to mangle the enemy. The Diamond Longsword was lost in the depths of the Chasm after the War in Heaven, and only in the dire battle of Velnarae did Ichalis see a mirage of Vaul beckoning him to draw it from its lost sheath. The two spirit stone upon its collar is the memory of Isha's and Kurnous' trapped souls.
Range.....S.....AP.....Type --------.....+3.....2.......Melee, Two-handed, Vaul's Work
Warlord Trait: Falcon's Swiftness
Special Rules: Ancient Doom
Battle Trance
Fleet
Independent Character
The Path of Strategy
Battle Trance - When Ichalis feels the heat of battle on his skin, his mind drifts into a catatonic state of meditation where he moves with unparalleled agility and alacrity. His Eldar brethren follow in his steps, becoming inspired with fury and grace. Ichalis can either shoot and then run 2D6, or run 2D6 and then shoot. Units from Codex: Eldar that are within 6" during the start of their Run also gain this special rule.
Autarch: 70
+1 W: 10
+1 I: 10
+1 A: 10
Auto-ambush of blades: 20 (Falcon's Swiftness sucks anyway?)
No shuriken pistol or haywire grenades: -5
Spear of Twilight: 20 for AP3, 30 for fleshbane armourbane
Eye of Wrath: 10 for large blast, 20 for S6, 20 for AP3
= 215.
And just another pointer the extra attack is because the sword is two-handed, better -10 for that.
Not even close.
Autarch: 70
+1 W: 10
+1 I: 10
+1 A: 10
Auto-ambush of blades: 15. It's one use per game.
No shuriken pistol or haywire grenades: -5
Spear of Twilight: 20 for AP3 fleshbane armourbane weapon that forces re-rolls of armor save rolls of 6
Eye of Wrath: 10 for Single use S6 AP3 large blast that affects friendly models as well
= 140
Also, GW bases costs on direct performance in test games. We do not have that luxury, so we base costs off of what we have seen GW cost certain things.
Remnant of Glory: The Diamond Longsword:Ichalis is one with his weapon. Every movement is with purpose - to mangle the enemy. The Diamond Longsword was lost in the depths of the Chasm after the War in Heaven, and only in the dire battle of Velnarae did Ichalis see a mirage of Vaul beckoning him to draw it from its lost sheath. The two spirit stone upon its collar is the memory of Isha's and Kurnous' trapped souls.
Range.....S.....AP.....Type --------.....+3.....2.......Melee, Two-handed, Vaul's Work
Warlord Trait: Falcon's Swiftness
Special Rules: Ancient Doom
Battle Trance
Fleet
Independent Character
The Path of Strategy
Battle Trance - When Ichalis feels the heat of battle on his skin, his mind drifts into a catatonic state of meditation where he moves with unparalleled agility and alacrity. His Eldar brethren follow in his steps, becoming inspired with fury and grace. Ichalis can either shoot and then run 2D6, or run 2D6 and then shoot. Units from Codex: Eldar that are within 6" during the start of their Run also gain this special rule.
This is a very powerful character who will dominate in every challenge he's in against any character. His ONLY weakness is the T3 and 3+ armor save. But in combat it won't matter, because he has 6 attacks on the charge. Anything under 200 for this character is undercosted.
Not to mention the 3 wounds. He will go down very quickly with just a 3+ save. In fact, a normal S6 weapon can instagib him easily. And by the way, Eye of Wrath does not just cost 10 points because you want it to fit :s
Spoiler:
Ichalis - Autarch of Craftworld Meia-Yna - 170 Points
Remnant of Glory: The Diamond Longsword:The Diamond Longsword was lost in the depths of the Chasm after the War in Heaven, and only in the dire battle of Velnarae did Ichalis see a mirage of Vaul beckoning him to draw it from its lost sheath. The two spirit stone upon its collar is the memory of Isha's and Kurnous' trapped souls.
Range.....S.....AP.....Type --------.....+3.....2.......Melee, Two-handed, Vaul's Work
Warlord Trait: Falcon's Swiftness
Special Rules: Ancient Doom
Battle Trance
Fleet
Independent Character
The Path of Strategy
Battle Trance - When Ichalis feels the heat of battle on his skin, his mind drifts into a catatonic state of meditation where he moves with unparalleled agility and alacrity. His Eldar brethren follow in his steps, becoming inspired with fury and grace. Ichalis can either shoot and then run 2D6, or run 2D6 and then shoot. Units from Codex: Eldar that are within 6" during the start of their Run also gain this special rule.
You see what I did here? Shaved off all the added stat bonuses to tone him down by what, 30 points? That's why 10 points for just 1 up to a stat isn't really, well, true.
IcyFireKnight wrote: Not to mention the 3 wounds. He will go down very quickly with just a 3+ save. In fact, a normal S6 weapon can instagib him easily. And by the way, Eye of Wrath does not just cost 10 points because you want it to fit :s
You see what I did here? Shaved off all the added stat bonuses to tone him down by what, 30 points? That's why 10 points for just 1 up to a stat isn't really, well, true.
While I do agree that some stats are worth more than others (for instance, WS should not be 10 points, just 5) I don't think that Yriel's Eye is expensive at all. Why? -S6 AP3 large blast. -Hits both friendly and enemy models -One use
This means that you can't use it while in a combat. You'll insta-kill everyone in your unit! Your 30 point exarch? Gone. The Eye is a last-ditch weapon to be used when Yriel is alone, and if he's alone, he's going to die, because he only has a 3+ and has to re-roll 6s. There isn't much you can do with the ability. It's barely worth the 10 points, the only reason it is is because it kills marines dead.
I haven't fleshed the idea out at all, but I would love to have a Nurgle character who's soul purpose is to tarpit. Maybe like a named beast of Nurgle.
So aside from having the crazy beast statline it has now, we say it has FnP. then the special rule would force the enemy unit to pass a test, or have their S reduced due to the horrible plague the beast brings with it. This would not effect walkers, and is applied before any weapon modifications.
Maybe you have to pass a special toughness test. You compare your toughness to the beast and both sides roll a D6, if the beast wins, you'r strength value is reduced D3.
To balance it a bit:
You could make it a solo character that cannot join other beasts.
OR
You could make friend and foe roll off with the beast. to discourage you from tying up a unit with the special beast, and assaulting it with another unit.
IcyFireKnight wrote: Not to mention the 3 wounds. He will go down very quickly with just a 3+ save. In fact, a normal S6 weapon can instagib him easily. And by the way, Eye of Wrath does not just cost 10 points because you want it to fit :s
You see what I did here? Shaved off all the added stat bonuses to tone him down by what, 30 points? That's why 10 points for just 1 up to a stat isn't really, well, true.
While I do agree that some stats are worth more than others (for instance, WS should not be 10 points, just 5) I don't think that Yriel's Eye is expensive at all. Why?
-S6 AP3 large blast.
-Hits both friendly and enemy models
-One use
This means that you can't use it while in a combat. You'll insta-kill everyone in your unit! Your 30 point exarch? Gone. The Eye is a last-ditch weapon to be used when Yriel is alone, and if he's alone, he's going to die, because he only has a 3+ and has to re-roll 6s. There isn't much you can do with the ability. It's barely worth the 10 points, the only reason it is is because it kills marines dead.
What you do is advance him up with a squad, until he gets into move assault range, then you detach him.
I'm a huge Berserk fan as most could probably tell by the avatar and I always wondered what would Guts be like as a Space Marine?
|.WS.|.BS.|.S.|.T.|.W.|.I..|.A.|.Ld.|.Sv.| Points:325
|...7..|..5....|.5.|.5.|..4..|.7.|.6..|.10.|.3+.|
Special Rules: 3+ It Will Not Die, EW, 4+ Feel No Pain, Fearless, Fear, Fleet, Preferred Enemy (Daemons)
Wargear: Berserker Armor, Dragon Slayer, Hand Cannon,Repeating Crossbow
Berserker Armor: Every turn Guts takes a Leadership test on 4D4 if he passes nothing happens if he fails his armor save becomes a 2+, he gains a 5+ Invul, Rerolls failed Feel No Pain saves & It Will Not Die rolls, gains Rage,and must charge the nearest unit every turn.
DragonSlayer: The sheer length and size of the sword means that Guts can attack enemies up to 2 inches away. It grants an additional +2 strength when in combat, and is AP:2
Hand Cannon: This is a one use weapon with the following profile: S:9, AP:2, Assault 1, 36 inch range
Repeating Crossbow: This is a ranged weapon with the following profile: S:3, AP:5, Assault 4, 24 inch range
ThePrimordial wrote: I'm a huge Berserk fan as most could probably tell by the avatar and I always wondered what would Guts be like as a Space Marine?
|.WS.|.BS.|.S.|.T.|.W.|.I..|.A.|.Ld.|.Sv.| Points:275?
|...7..|..5....|.5.|.5.|..4..|.7.|.6..|.10.|.3+.|
Special Rules: 3+ It Will Not Die, EW, 4+ Feel No Pain, Fearless, Fear, Fleet, Preferred Enemy (Daemons)
Wargear: Berserker Armor, Dragon Slayer, Hand Cannon,Repeating Crossbow
The Struggler: If Guts is killed on the field of combat he stands back up on a 4+ with D3 wounds
Berserker Armor: Every turn Guts takes a Leadership test on 4D4 if he passes nothing happens if he fails his armor save becomes a 2+, he gains a 5+ Invul, Rerolls failed Feel No Pain saves & It Will Not Die rolls, gains Rage,and must charge the nearest unit every turn.
DragonSlayer: The sheer length and size of the sword means that Guts can attack enemies up to 2 inches away. It grants an additional +2 strength when in combat, and is AP:2
Hand Cannon: This is a one use weapon with the following profile: S:9, AP:2, Assault 1, 36 inch range
Repeating Crossbow: This is a ranged weapon with the following profile: S:3, AP:5, Assault 4, 24 inch range
ThePrimordial wrote: I'm a huge Berserk fan as most could probably tell by the avatar and I always wondered what would Guts be like as a Space Marine?
|.WS.|.BS.|.S.|.T.|.W.|.I..|.A.|.Ld.|.Sv.| Points:275?
|...7..|..5....|.5.|.5.|..4..|.7.|.6..|.10.|.3+.|
Special Rules: 3+ It Will Not Die, EW, 4+ Feel No Pain, Fearless, Fear, Fleet, Preferred Enemy (Daemons)
Wargear: Berserker Armor, Dragon Slayer, Hand Cannon,Repeating Crossbow
The Struggler: If Guts is killed on the field of combat he stands back up on a 4+ with D3 wounds
Berserker Armor: Every turn Guts takes a Leadership test on 4D4 if he passes nothing happens if he fails his armor save becomes a 2+, he gains a 5+ Invul, Rerolls failed Feel No Pain saves & It Will Not Die rolls, gains Rage,and must charge the nearest unit every turn.
DragonSlayer: The sheer length and size of the sword means that Guts can attack enemies up to 2 inches away. It grants an additional +2 strength when in combat, and is AP:2
Hand Cannon: This is a one use weapon with the following profile: S:9, AP:2, Assault 1, 36 inch range
Repeating Crossbow: This is a ranged weapon with the following profile: S:3, AP:5, Assault 4, 24 inch range
Dear God.
Edited remove the Struggler. I've honestly never seen Guts wince, and the description for the Berserker armor is that the wearer keeps fighting until they're a pool of gore. Guts does this to an extent by himself.
To put this in perspective around 80-85% of his body mass is probably scar tissue but it doesn't seem to bother him at all.
curran12 wrote: Rules that prove up quite nicely how Mary Sue and OP anime heroes are.
Its a Seinen that's a lot more grimdark than 40k and Guts himself is an incredibly despicable character personality wise. Guts also might be one of the manliest characters of all time.
I think its also rated as the best Manga of all time on any board that matters. The art alone probably justifies that.
Look at the profile on 1d4chan (not very reliable but still)
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Berserk Anyone having trouble seeing the pictures?
Ovion wrote: I'll review it in the morning.
Looks silly.
Never heard of the manga though. Also looks silly.
You think that art looks silly? These aren't stand out frames, every page is this well detailed.
The characters look much more human and the artist can actually give impressions like a character is older than they are (Guts is late 20's but appears late 30's)
Have you actually seen a manga where you can tell the difference between late 20's and early 30's?
Ovion wrote: I'll review it in the morning.
Looks silly.
Never heard of the manga though. Also looks silly.
Lets put it this way: 40k is grimdrak because it describes situations that are generally dark and depressing and violent. Berserk shows us what those thing are. It's like, instead of being told that the dark Eldar are sadists, you see exactly what they do.
Ovion wrote: I'll review it in the morning.
Looks silly.
Never heard of the manga though. Also looks silly.
You think that art looks silly? These aren't stand out frames, every page is this well detailed.
The characters look much more human and the artist can actually give impressions like a character is older than they are (Guts is late 20's but appears late 30's)
Have you actually seen a manga where you can tell the difference between late 20's and early 30's?
No, going by that TG page it looks kind of silly.
But yeah, tired now, I'll give it a costing in the morning.
Ovion wrote: I'll review it in the morning.
Looks silly.
Never heard of the manga though. Also looks silly.
Lets put it this way: 40k is grimdrak because it describes situations that are generally dark and depressing and violent. Berserk shows us what those thing are. It's like, instead of being told that the dark Eldar are sadists, you see exactly what they do.
So are you a fan too?
Back on topic what do you think of the rules for a Space Marine augmented Guts?
About the art lets just say that the artist improves by leaps and bounds as time goes on.
There was also a video game that was pretty good that literally nobody played....
Heres some gameplay where he slaps around a 200 ton dragon made of corundum steel crystals like a bi*ch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOWiEJ7Q2jQ The animations are beautiful, he moves around like a deranged animal ignoring pain, weight, momentum.
The only thing missing is him Powerbombing & German Suplexing the Dragon.
Kratos is a Guts wannabe.......
ThePrimordial wrote: I'm a huge Berserk fan as most could probably tell by the avatar and I always wondered what would Guts be like as a Space Marine?
|.WS.|.BS.|.S.|.T.|.W.|.I..|.A.|.Ld.|.Sv.| Points:325
|...7..|..5....|.5.|.5.|..4..|.7.|.6..|.10.|.3+.|
Special Rules: 3+ It Will Not Die, EW, 4+ Feel No Pain, Fearless, Fear, Fleet, Preferred Enemy (Daemons)
Wargear: Berserker Armor, Dragon Slayer, Hand Cannon,Repeating Crossbow
Berserker Armor: Every turn Guts takes a Leadership test on 4D4 if he passes nothing happens if he fails his armor save becomes a 2+, he gains a 5+ Invul, Rerolls failed Feel No Pain saves & It Will Not Die rolls, gains Rage,and must charge the nearest unit every turn.
DragonSlayer: The sheer length and size of the sword means that Guts can attack enemies up to 2 inches away. It grants an additional +2 strength when in combat, and is AP:2
Hand Cannon: This is a one use weapon with the following profile: S:9, AP:2, Assault 1, 36 inch range
Repeating Crossbow: This is a ranged weapon with the following profile: S:3, AP:5, Assault 4, 24 inch range
Okiday, we'll go with your updated version.
And we'll start with a Chaos Lord, as that seems like a reasonable starting point.
Costing:
Total: 330
So not far off at 325.
275 with the extras it had before was way out though. xD
Furthermore, some things don't seem to play over with making much sense - obviously I haven't read the book / seen the show, etc, but just from what I know about the actual weaponry:
For example, I assume it's an old-school 'hand cannon', firing an actual cannonball - to me this would be along the lines of Range36", Str6, AP4, Assault 1, Blast, One Shot Only.
And a Repeating Crossbow would more be a Rapidfire or maybe Assault 2 weapon, rather than Assault 4. Bear in mind that heavy/assault 4 weapons are things like gatling guns.
ThePrimordial wrote: I'm a huge Berserk fan as most could probably tell by the avatar and I always wondered what would Guts be like as a Space Marine?
|.WS.|.BS.|.S.|.T.|.W.|.I..|.A.|.Ld.|.Sv.| Points:325
|...7..|..5....|.5.|.5.|..4..|.7.|.6..|.10.|.3+.|
Special Rules: 3+ It Will Not Die, EW, 4+ Feel No Pain, Fearless, Fear, Fleet, Preferred Enemy (Daemons)
Wargear: Berserker Armor, Dragon Slayer, Hand Cannon,Repeating Crossbow
Berserker Armor: Every turn Guts takes a Leadership test on 4D4 if he passes nothing happens if he fails his armor save becomes a 2+, he gains a 5+ Invul, Rerolls failed Feel No Pain saves & It Will Not Die rolls, gains Rage,and must charge the nearest unit every turn.
DragonSlayer: The sheer length and size of the sword means that Guts can attack enemies up to 2 inches away. It grants an additional +2 strength when in combat, and is AP:2
Hand Cannon: This is a one use weapon with the following profile: S:9, AP:2, Assault 1, 36 inch range
Repeating Crossbow: This is a ranged weapon with the following profile: S:3, AP:5, Assault 4, 24 inch range
ThePrimordial wrote: I'm a huge Berserk fan as most could probably tell by the avatar and I always wondered what would Guts be like as a Space Marine?
|.WS.|.BS.|.S.|.T.|.W.|.I..|.A.|.Ld.|.Sv.| Points:325
|...7..|..5....|.5.|.5.|..4..|.7.|.6..|.10.|.3+.|
Special Rules: 3+ It Will Not Die, EW, 4+ Feel No Pain, Fearless, Fear, Fleet, Preferred Enemy (Daemons)
Wargear: Berserker Armor, Dragon Slayer, Hand Cannon,Repeating Crossbow
Berserker Armor: Every turn Guts takes a Leadership test on 4D4 if he passes nothing happens if he fails his armor save becomes a 2+, he gains a 5+ Invul, Rerolls failed Feel No Pain saves & It Will Not Die rolls, gains Rage,and must charge the nearest unit every turn.
DragonSlayer: The sheer length and size of the sword means that Guts can attack enemies up to 2 inches away. It grants an additional +2 strength when in combat, and is AP:2
Hand Cannon: This is a one use weapon with the following profile: S:9, AP:2, Assault 1, 36 inch range
Repeating Crossbow: This is a ranged weapon with the following profile: S:3, AP:5, Assault 4, 24 inch range
I won't say anything...
You just did.......
Besides apparently this abomination is costed almost perfectly.
curran12 wrote: Costed 'right' does not make it magically not overpowered. It is still a "I WIN BECAUSE I AM A FAN OF THIS ANIME" button.
It's not an Anime it's a Manga and the land of Berserk has a lot of similarities to a Feudal World.
Costed correctly basically means its not OP because it means it will kill no more than its cost in points then die.
Besides the books are objectively good.
curran12 wrote: Costed 'right' does not make it magically not overpowered. It is still a "I WIN BECAUSE I AM A FAN OF THIS ANIME" button.
Yeah, I've spent a great many lengthy posts trying to explain that throwing points at something doens't magically make it balanced.
While I greatly respect Ovion for all his posts here and sound costing methods, I think it falls a little short for this monstrosity.
The problem with Primordial's character is that every ability gets better exponentially from the ability before it.
From a strictly durability perspective, ignoring all offensive capabilities, I'll try and explain why this character can never truly be balanced regardless of points.
First, T5. This is always a nice start for a unit. Multi-wound character automatically become immune to ID from anything less than S10, which is pretty significant. Now we add EW, which effectively plugs that hole. Now his T5 is really nice, because he's now immune to all ID and shrugs off small arms easily.
But here's where it gets silly powerful. He has FnP, and an improved version. Because of his EW rule, he can take his FnP test against ANY wound. There is literally no way to stop him from taking that roll, which increases his durability by 50%, on top of T5. Right, this is an almost unprecedented level of durability that no other unit can match short of huge 300+ pts MC and greater daemons and such.
But wait, there's more. His starts with a respectable 3+ save, but with the berserker armour rule, its nearly guaranteed to become a 2+/5++. Rolling 4D6 on Ld10 just about guarantees he'll 'fail' and get the improved version. So now we have a T5, 2+/5++ FnP (4+) monster. This already is the single most durable character I've ever seen a rule published for in standard 40k games.
Now, if that's not already well in the realm of obscenity, he can also re-roll his FnP, which is already improved to 4+. My head is spinning trying to even start to figure out how many shots from various weapons it would take to cause even a single wound. I mean, it would take over 12 lascannon equivalent shots in a single round to cause one singular wound. This improves dramatically for anything that isn't AP2 or S7 and up. I can't become to fathom how difficult this would be to kill in a normal size match (1850-2000ish).
Oh but wait. The icing on the cake has yet to come.
It has IWND. Yeah. Every third wound you cause is essentially ignored.
But wait, there's more.
He can re-roll IWND rolls
I have never seen something remotely as durable as this...thing. It is quite literally un-killable in a standard game of 40k.
And here's my point. You can't effectively cost something when each rule you add makes the one before it exponentially better. It becomes not a question of how much each ability costs, but rather what multiplier do you use. You can't simply tag each ability with a +10 here, or a +20 there. Each one of those rules improves all the others, so they need to be considered when costing, not separately in a vacuum.
In short, from a durability perspective alone, points can't balance this. It is so far beyond the realm of normal that it fundamentally breaks any game you'd play him in.
Oh, and lets not forget he's also an absolute beatstick at range and in melee. No weaknesses, hilariously good at everything, and nigh unkillable.
No amount of points can make this balanced. You'll respond the same way you always do, by pointing out some alleged weakness, and then claiming his cost is fair because he's expensive.
curran12 wrote: Costed 'right' does not make it magically not overpowered. It is still a "I WIN BECAUSE I AM A FAN OF THIS ANIME" button.
Yeah, I've spent a great many lengthy posts trying to explain that throwing points at something doens't magically make it balanced.
While I greatly respect Ovion for all his posts here and sound costing methods, I think it falls a little short for this monstrosity.
The problem with Primordial's character is that every ability gets better exponentially from the ability before it.
From a strictly durability perspective, ignoring all offensive capabilities, I'll try and explain why this character can never truly be balanced regardless of points.
First, T5. This is always a nice start for a unit. Multi-wound character automatically become immune to ID from anything less than S10, which is pretty significant. Now we add EW, which effectively plugs that hole. Now his T5 is really nice, because he's now immune to all ID and shrugs off small arms easily.
But here's where it gets silly powerful. He has FnP, and an improved version. Because of his EW rule, he can take his FnP test against ANY wound. There is literally no way to stop him from taking that roll, which increases his durability by 50%, on top of T5. Right, this is an almost unprecedented level of durability that no other unit can match short of huge 300+ pts MC and greater daemons and such.
But wait, there's more. His starts with a respectable 3+ save, but with the berserker armour rule, its nearly guaranteed to become a 2+/5++. Rolling 4D6 on Ld10 just about guarantees he'll 'fail' and get the improved version. So now we have a T5, 2+/5++ FnP (4+) monster. This already is the single most durable character I've ever seen a rule published for in standard 40k games.
Now, if that's not already well in the realm of obscenity, he can also re-roll his FnP, which is already improved to 4+. My head is spinning trying to even start to figure out how many shots from various weapons it would take to cause even a single wound. I mean, it would take over 12 lascannon equivalent shots in a single round to cause one singular wound. This improves dramatically for anything that isn't AP2 or S7 and up. I can't become to fathom how difficult this would be to kill in a normal size match (1850-2000ish).
Oh but wait. The icing on the cake has yet to come.
It has IWND. Yeah. Every third wound you cause is essentially ignored.
But wait, there's more.
He can re-roll IWND rolls
I have never seen something remotely as durable as this...thing. It is quite literally un-killable in a standard game of 40k.
And here's my point. You can't effectively cost something when each rule you add makes the one before it exponentially better. It becomes not a question of how much each ability costs, but rather what multiplier do you use. You can't simply tag each ability with a +10 here, or a +20 there. Each one of those rules improves all the others, so they need to be considered when costing, not separately in a vacuum.
In short, from a durability perspective alone, points can't balance this. It is so far beyond the realm of normal that it fundamentally breaks any game you'd play him in.
Oh, and lets not forget he's also an absolute beatstick at range and in melee. No weaknesses, hilariously good at everything, and nigh unkillable.
No amount of points can make this balanced. You'll respond the same way you always do, by pointing out some alleged weakness, and then claiming his cost is fair because he's expensive.
Congratulations, you have broken 40k.
At 500 points hell be quickly ripped apart by two bloodthirsters with Corpulence that are better in every way than he is and do his job much better.
Anything can be balanced by throwing points at it. I've said this all the time because it's true. If I made this monster 600 points would you seriously consider even looking its way for a spot in your army?
No, you say? Well this proves my point.
Again the character this is based on is around 85% scar tissue. The durability is in line with the character.
At 500 points hell be quickly ripped apart by two bloodthirsters with Corpulence that are better in every way than he is and do his job much better.
Anything can be balanced by throwing points at it. I've said this all the time because it's true. If I made this monster 600 points would you seriously consider even looking its way for a spot in your army?
No, you say? Well this proves my point.
Again the character this is based on is around 85% scar tissue. The durability is in line with the character.
Do you ever actually discuss any of the points people make?
The ability to be killed by something does not make it balanced. This goes doubly so when using incredibly powerful units as justification.
Right, so for your example of two bloodthirsters. In comparison, your character is still infinitely more durable. Better armour save, an invuln, FnP (improved), IWND (improved), and EW. The daemons will throw down 12 attacks, of which 8 will get through. They wound on 3s, so another 6 get through, optimistically. You'll stop two with the invuln, another two from FnP, and with the re-roll, a single wound will get through. Oh, and then will likely regenerate that wound.
Two bloodthirsters, possibly some of the hardest hitting CC monsters in the game can hardly get a single wound through in combat.
So no, he's not balanced.
Do you understand my points? Can you please, and I'm being sincere, please go back and read my points and discuss them.
BaconUprising wrote: Agggghhhh for gods sake! The fact that if it can be killed by something does not make it balanced! I really am done now, I just resist.
Those Corpulence Bloodthirsters (together) are also way better in EVERY way and would kill more sh*t every game guaranteed.
Its not that it can be killed by something it's that something is in every way better and will do its job better.
BaconUprising wrote: Agggghhhh for gods sake! The fact that if it can be killed by something does not make it balanced! I really am done now, I just resist.
Those Corpulence Bloodthirsters (together) are also way better in every way and would kill more sh*t every game guaranteed.
Please see my post above disproving this theory.
Oh, and on the offense, your character deals 2 wounds every round. Rough math is telling me that given enough rounds, you would actually win against those bloodthirsters.
Those bloodthirsters with no ranged weaponry you character has.
BaconUprising wrote: Agggghhhh for gods sake! The fact that if it can be killed by something does not make it balanced! I really am done now, I just resist.
Those Corpulence Bloodthirsters (together) are also way better in every way and would kill more sh*t every game guaranteed.
Please see my post above disproving this theory.
Oh, and on the offense, your character deals 2 wounds every round. Rough math is telling me that given enough rounds, you would actually win against those bloodthirsters.
Those bloodthirsters with no ranged weaponry you character has.
Together they have 10 attacks, 12 wounds, both have 6T, and they both have a 4+ FNP. Those Bloodthirsters have the lash of khorne which can easily instagib Annihilation barges. They also have a 5+ IWND My guy will be taking at least 3 wounds a turn and can only heal 1.
Wargear:
- Artificer Armor
- Frag and Krak Grenades
- Storm Shield
- Two Storm Bolters
- Creed's Tempest Blade - This is a mastercrafted Lightning Blade (+1 Str) that resolves all wounds at AP2
Special Rules:
- Independant Character
- ATSKNF - Rites of Battle - All units on the tabletop use his LD for all tests using LD - Pressing Strikes - To-hit rolls of 6 cause another attack. These attacks do not generate further attacks and do not ignore armor saves. The strength of these attacks occurs without weapon modifiers (such as Lightning blade +1 str modifier), but with other modifiers (such as Strength from Within str modifier).
- Biomancer - Forte may use one psychic power per turn. He himself is the target of these powers. In addition, he knows only the two following powers.
- Strength from Within (slightly modified Iron Will power): Forte gains d3 in two of the following four stats: Strength, Toughness, Initiative, and Attacks. In addition, he gains Eternal Warrior while this power is in effect.
- Into the Fray: Forte moves like Jump Infantry and adds 3" to any run move (usually d6"+3"), OR gains the furious charge and hammer of wrath special rules.
Warlord Trait: Holding Tactics and Strategy: Any unit Forte is currently joined with that may normally deny objectives is considered scoring. In addition, pick a single denying unit before the game. That unit is a troops unit for the purposes of the FOC.
Cost Breakdown for Forte:
Spoiler:
C:SM Captain Base - 100 pts
Artificer Armor - 15 pts
Storm Shield - 15 pts
Two Storm Bolters - 10 pts
Rites of Battle - 20 pts
Pressing Strikes - 5 pts
Creed's Tempest Blade - 45 pts (15 pts power weapon + 10 pts plus one str + 10 AP2 + 10 mastercrafted)
Holding Tactics and Strategy - 20 pts
Biomancer: 45 pts (1st power - 30 pts, 2nd power - 15 pts)
TOTAL: 275 pts
Marshall Damien Kaiser v.2.0
Spoiler:
Cost: 205
WS6 BS5 S4 T4 W3 I5 A3 LD10 Sv 2+/4++
Wargear:
- Artificer Armor
- Stormbolter
- Frag and Krak Grenades
- Special Issue Ammunition
- Iron Halo
- Meltablade - A lightning blade (+1 str), with Armorbane special rule that resolves hits at AP2. In addition, it may be fired as a Meltagun (12" S8 AP1 Melta).
Special Rule:
- Independent Character
- ATSKNF - Pressing Strikes
- Field Marshall - 24" LD bubble
Warlord Trait:
- Sternguard Battleforce - Sternguard Veterans may be taken as troops
Cost Breakdown Marshall Kaiser
Spoiler:
C:SM Captain Base: 100 pts
Artificer Armor: 15 pts
Stormbolter: 5 pts
Special Issue Ammo: 5 pts
Meltablade: 55 pts (15 base, 10 for +1 str, 10 for AP2, 10 for armorbane, 10 for meltagun)
Pressing Strikes: 5 pts
Field Marshall: 10 pts
Sternguard Battleforce: 10 pts
TOTAL: 205 pts
Marshall Markus Wright
Spoiler:
Cost: 205
WS6 BS5 S4 T5 W3 I5 A3 LD10 SV: 2+/4++
Wargear:
- Frag and Krak Grenades
- Artificer Armor
- Iron Halo
- Space Marine Bike
- Lance of a Power - This is a power weapon that on the turn the unit charges, gains +2 strength, becomes AP2, and gains the Armorbane and Lance special rules
Special Rules:
- Independent Character
- ATSKNF - Pressing Strikes
- Field Marshall
Warlord Trait: Bike Battleforce - Space Marine bike squads of at least 6 models are troops.
Cost Breakdown Marshall Wright
Spoiler:
C:SM Captain Base - 100 pts
Artificer Armor - 15 pts
Bike - 35 pts (25 pts bike + 10 pts Bike Battleforce warlord trait)
Pressing Strikes - 5 pts
Field Marshall - 10 pts
Lance of a Power - 40 pts (PW base 15 pts, +2 str on charge 10 pts, AP2 on charge 5 pts, lance on charge 5 pts, armorbane on charge 5 pts; cost of "on charge" items are halved compared to actual placement on weapon)
TOTAL: 205
Wargear:
- Frag and Krak Grenades
- Artificer Armor
- Jump Pack
- Meltabombs
- Iron Halo
- Pair of Maelstorm Claws - These are a pair of Lightning Claws (shred) that have the rending special rule
Special Rules:
- Independent Character
- ATSKNF - Pressing Strikes
- Furious Charge
- Field Marshall
- Heroic Intervention - Richter and any jump infantry unit he deepstrikes with may assault on the turn they land
Warlord Trait:
Jump Infantry Battleforce: Assault Marines and Vanguard Veterans may be taken as troops.
BaconUprising wrote: Agggghhhh for gods sake! The fact that if it can be killed by something does not make it balanced! I really am done now, I just resist.
Those Corpulence Bloodthirsters (together) are also way better in every way and would kill more sh*t every game guaranteed.
Please see my post above disproving this theory.
Oh, and on the offense, your character deals 2 wounds every round. Rough math is telling me that given enough rounds, you would actually win against those bloodthirsters.
Those bloodthirsters with no ranged weaponry you character has.
Together they have 10 attacks, 12 wounds, both have 6T, and they both have a 4+ FNP. Those Bloodthirsters have the lash of khorne which can easily instagib Annihilation barges.
Lash or Khorne is a S6 attack. So no, it won't be instagibbing any vehicles.
And the FnP is another 20pts you have to pay for for the chance of rolling on a table and hoping you get those results.
And your character has a lascannon and two stormbolters essentially.
Listen, I've shown to you that your example was wrong about the bloodthirsters easily killing your character. They won't. You can argue until your blue in the face, but without any math to back your arguments up, you have no ground to stand on.
BaconUprising wrote: Agggghhhh for gods sake! The fact that if it can be killed by something does not make it balanced! I really am done now, I just resist.
Those Corpulence Bloodthirsters (together) are also way better in every way and would kill more sh*t every game guaranteed.
Please see my post above disproving this theory.
Oh, and on the offense, your character deals 2 wounds every round. Rough math is telling me that given enough rounds, you would actually win against those bloodthirsters.
Those bloodthirsters with no ranged weaponry you character has.
Together they have 10 attacks, 12 wounds, both have 6T, and they both have a 4+ FNP. Those Bloodthirsters have the lash of khorne which can easily instagib Annihilation barges.
Lash or Khorne is a S6 attack. So no, it won't be instagibbing any vehicles.
And the FnP is another 20pts you have to pay for for the chance of rolling on a table and hoping you get those results.
And your character has a lascannon and two stormbolters essentially.
Listen, I've shown to you that your example was wrong about the bloodthirsters easily killing your character. They won't. You can argue until your blue in the face, but without any math to back your arguments up, you have no ground to stand on.
At my Game store you get to choose gifts.
My guy will be taking at least 3 wounds a turn and can only heal 1.
This is due to another homerule where furious charge adds D3 attacks when using thirster's.
Without this hell be taking at least 2 wounds even with his 2+ FNP. GW dice roll ones much more often than 1/6 and I have horrific luck.
Without this my guy still has no chance.
They'll be taking a wound out of their 12 pretty much.
No my guy has no chance in hell against that.
Even if you're right (you're not) I can still up his cost to 400 and reduce the chance of going berserk. Which I'll do right now. Now he takes the leadership test on 2D6. He probably wont have it happen in the average length game.
At my Game store you get to choose gifts.
My guy will be taking at least 3 wounds a turn and can only heal 1.
This is due to another homerule where furious charge adds D3 attacks when using thirster's.
Without this my guy still has no chance.
They'll be taking a wound a piece pretty much,
No my guy has no chance in hell against that.
Okay, so those rules change some small details, and would be nice to know earlier.
So, picking gifts, sure.
The D3 extra attacks is weird, but whatever.
But anyways, here's the math again for you.
Lets put everything in favour of the thirsters; they get the charge, roll an extra 3 attacks, and your buddy doesn't get to shoot his lascannon.
They hit you with 18 attacks. 12 land, and another 8 wound. You'll save 2 or 3 (we'll go with 2, assuming everything in the thirsters favour), and now you get your FnP. You'll stop 3 initially, and another 1.5, but we'll call it 1.
So no, he doesn't take 3, he takes 2 at most. That's in the one round where absolutely everything goes in their favour. And you'll still regenerate one of those wounds!
Again, he's not getting punked by bloodthirsters.
The fact that he can stand up to two thirsters for an entire game and still never die should be cause for alarm. This isn't balanced.
That was meant to be sarcasm. It's basically a game of one upsmanship. I win because I do this, but then I do this to counter that so I win, well then I add this so I win, fine then I add this and THIS so that you don't win. Eventually you end up with ALLPOWERFULLUBERMAN! He costs 2001 points and wins all games instantly, provided you don't fail your deepstrike roll.
Imperial Deceit wrote: That was meant to be sarcasm. It's basically a game of one upsmanship. I win because I do this, but then I do this to counter that so I win, well then I add this so I win, fine then I add this and THIS so that you don't win. Eventually you end up with ALLPOWERFULLUBERMAN! He costs 2001 points and wins all games instantly, provided you don't fail your deepstrike roll.
But its balanced because there's a chance he might actually lose.
Bloodthirsters are WS 10 so I might not even land a hit 1/3 of the time....
The Bloodthirsters will save most of the wounds that get through with their 4+ FNP's.
The Bloodthirsters would be charging and I may not be mistaken but with another weapon they gain another point of S. So that means S:8. Did you account for that?
He probably wont be Berserk when he gets attacked....
This all comes to mean he's tarpitted the entire game and probably wont win.
What's with this 2 at most gak?
He could be killed the first turn of combat with the bloodthirsters not losing a single wound.
My local Daemon player seems to be blessed by the Dark Gods and rolls 6's half the time when I play him.....
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mr. Burning wrote: Blacksails, It's pointless trying to have any reasonable discussion with ThePrimordial. You are best off commenting on other posters ideas.
Apparently he doesn't have better things to do, and I've already weakened it with him going Berserk probably not happening in a normal game.
Bloodthirsters are WS 10 so I might not even land a hit 1/3 of the time....
The Bloodthirsters will save most of the wounds that get through with their 4+ FNP's.
The Bloodthirsters would be charging and I may not be mistaken but with another weapon they gain another point of S. So that means S:8. Did you account for that?
He probably wont be Berserk when he gets attacked....
This all comes to mean he's tarpitted the entire game and probably wont win.
What's with this 2 at most gak?
He could be killed the first turn of combat with the bloodthirsters not losing a single wound.
My local Daemon player seems to be blessed by the Dark Gods and rolls 6's half the time when I play him.....
All of my math was based on your original character and using the stats of a thirster exactly as you described. I even game them an extra three attacks on the charge, as per your house rule. My math is absolutely right using the stats and rules both units had when you used them as a benchmark.
Now you're changing your character and the thirsters load out, which obviously changes the math.
So please don't say my math is wrong. You've now changed a bunch of rules and assumptions, which will mean new math.
But you seem to have a hard time actually discussing points and acknowledging other peoples' feedback.
I'll just leave you with this; if you're comparing him favourably to two bloodthirsters, shouldn't he cost close to two bloodthirsters?
Food for thought, but yeah, I'm done trying to help you, again. Nothing I say will get through to you.
Imperial Deceit wrote: That was meant to be sarcasm. It's basically a game of one upsmanship. I win because I do this, but then I do this to counter that so I win, well then I add this so I win, fine then I add this and THIS so that you don't win. Eventually you end up with ALLPOWERFULLUBERMAN! He costs 2001 points and wins all games instantly, provided you don't fail your deepstrike roll.
But its balanced because there's a chance he might actually lose.
Oh no he still will win, just not instantly. I will be on turn 2 when he comes in automatically.
Bloodthirsters are WS 10 so I might not even land a hit 1/3 of the time....
The Bloodthirsters will save most of the wounds that get through with their 4+ FNP's.
The Bloodthirsters would be charging and I may not be mistaken but with another weapon they gain another point of S. So that means S:8. Did you account for that?
He probably wont be Berserk when he gets attacked....
This all comes to mean he's tarpitted the entire game and probably wont win.
What's with this 2 at most gak?
He could be killed the first turn of combat with the bloodthirsters not losing a single wound.
My local Daemon player seems to be blessed by the Dark Gods and rolls 6's half the time when I play him.....
All of my math was based on your original character and using the stats of a thirster exactly as you described. I even game them an extra three attacks on the charge, as per your house rule. My math is absolutely right using the stats and rules both units had when you used them as a benchmark.
Now you're changing your character and the thirsters load out, which obviously changes the math.
So please don't say my math is wrong. You've now changed a bunch of rules and assumptions, which will mean new math.
But you seem to have a hard time actually discussing points and acknowledging other peoples' feedback.
I'll just leave you with this; if you're comparing him favourably to two bloodthirsters, shouldn't he cost close to two bloodthirsters?
Food for thought, but yeah, I'm done trying to help you, again. Nothing I say will get through to you.
I could give him a 5+ FNP & a 4+ IWND and keep the cost. You think of saying that?
curran12 wrote: Costed 'right' does not make it magically not overpowered. It is still a "I WIN BECAUSE I AM A FAN OF THIS ANIME" button.
Yeah, I've spent a great many lengthy posts trying to explain that throwing points at something doens't magically make it balanced.
While I greatly respect Ovion for all his posts here and sound costing methods, I think it falls a little short for this monstrosity.
The problem with Primordial's character is that every ability gets better exponentially from the ability before it.
From a strictly durability perspective, ignoring all offensive capabilities, I'll try and explain why this character can never truly be balanced regardless of points.
First, T5. This is always a nice start for a unit. Multi-wound character automatically become immune to ID from anything less than S10, which is pretty significant. Now we add EW, which effectively plugs that hole. Now his T5 is really nice, because he's now immune to all ID and shrugs off small arms easily.
But here's where it gets silly powerful. He has FnP, and an improved version. Because of his EW rule, he can take his FnP test against ANY wound. There is literally no way to stop him from taking that roll, which increases his durability by 50%, on top of T5. Right, this is an almost unprecedented level of durability that no other unit can match short of huge 300+ pts MC and greater daemons and such.
But wait, there's more. His starts with a respectable 3+ save, but with the berserker armour rule, its nearly guaranteed to become a 2+/5++. Rolling 4D6 on Ld10 just about guarantees he'll 'fail' and get the improved version. So now we have a T5, 2+/5++ FnP (4+) monster. This already is the single most durable character I've ever seen a rule published for in standard 40k games.
Now, if that's not already well in the realm of obscenity, he can also re-roll his FnP, which is already improved to 4+. My head is spinning trying to even start to figure out how many shots from various weapons it would take to cause even a single wound. I mean, it would take over 12 lascannon equivalent shots in a single round to cause one singular wound. This improves dramatically for anything that isn't AP2 or S7 and up. I can't become to fathom how difficult this would be to kill in a normal size match (1850-2000ish).
Oh but wait. The icing on the cake has yet to come.
It has IWND. Yeah. Every third wound you cause is essentially ignored.
But wait, there's more.
He can re-roll IWND rolls
I have never seen something remotely as durable as this...thing. It is quite literally un-killable in a standard game of 40k.
And here's my point. You can't effectively cost something when each rule you add makes the one before it exponentially better. It becomes not a question of how much each ability costs, but rather what multiplier do you use. You can't simply tag each ability with a +10 here, or a +20 there. Each one of those rules improves all the others, so they need to be considered when costing, not separately in a vacuum.
In short, from a durability perspective alone, points can't balance this. It is so far beyond the realm of normal that it fundamentally breaks any game you'd play him in.
Oh, and lets not forget he's also an absolute beatstick at range and in melee. No weaknesses, hilariously good at everything, and nigh unkillable.
No amount of points can make this balanced. You'll respond the same way you always do, by pointing out some alleged weakness, and then claiming his cost is fair because he's expensive.
Congratulations, you have broken 40k.
Actually, you still cannot take feel no pain rolls againt things that cause instant death, even with eternl warrior. Also, this could only possibly be balanced in apocalypse, only because of D weapons. Furthermore, though these rules do accurately represent guts, it is terribly broken, the only thing that could kill him is asurmen or jaws. Or a mss overlord or terreract labyrinth.
ThePrimordial wrote: I'm a huge Berserk fan as most could probably tell by the avatar and I always wondered what would Guts be like as a Space Marine?
|.WS.|.BS.|.S.|.T.|.W.|.I..|.A.|.Ld.|.Sv.| Points:425
|...7..|..5....|.5.|.5.|..4..|.7.|.6..|.10.|.3+.|
Special Rules: 4+ It Will Not Die, EW, 4+ Feel No Pain, Fearless, Fear, Fleet, Preferred Enemy (Daemons)
Wargear: Berserker Armor, Dragon Slayer, Hand Cannon,Repeating Crossbow
Berserker Armor: Every turn Guts takes a Leadership test on 2D6 if he passes nothing happens if he fails his armor save becomes a 2+, he gains a 5+ Invul, Rerolls failed Feel No Pain saves & It Will Not Die rolls gains Rage,and must charge the nearest unit every turn. You have no control over the movement. He moves in a straight line the direction that means he gets to the target the quickest.
DragonSlayer: The sheer length and size of the sword means that Guts can attack enemies up to 2 inches away. It grants an additional +2 strength when in combat, and is AP:2
Hand Cannon: This is a one use weapon with the following profile: S:9, AP:2, Assault 1, 36 inch range
Repeating Crossbow: This is a ranged weapon with the following profile: S:3, AP:5, Assault 4, 24 inch range
curran12 wrote: Costed 'right' does not make it magically not overpowered. It is still a "I WIN BECAUSE I AM A FAN OF THIS ANIME" button.
Yeah, I've spent a great many lengthy posts trying to explain that throwing points at something doens't magically make it balanced.
While I greatly respect Ovion for all his posts here and sound costing methods, I think it falls a little short for this monstrosity.
The problem with Primordial's character is that every ability gets better exponentially from the ability before it.
From a strictly durability perspective, ignoring all offensive capabilities, I'll try and explain why this character can never truly be balanced regardless of points.
First, T5. This is always a nice start for a unit. Multi-wound character automatically become immune to ID from anything less than S10, which is pretty significant. Now we add EW, which effectively plugs that hole. Now his T5 is really nice, because he's now immune to all ID and shrugs off small arms easily.
But here's where it gets silly powerful. He has FnP, and an improved version. Because of his EW rule, he can take his FnP test against ANY wound. There is literally no way to stop him from taking that roll, which increases his durability by 50%, on top of T5. Right, this is an almost unprecedented level of durability that no other unit can match short of huge 300+ pts MC and greater daemons and such.
But wait, there's more. His starts with a respectable 3+ save, but with the berserker armour rule, its nearly guaranteed to become a 2+/5++. Rolling 4D6 on Ld10 just about guarantees he'll 'fail' and get the improved version. So now we have a T5, 2+/5++ FnP (4+) monster. This already is the single most durable character I've ever seen a rule published for in standard 40k games.
Now, if that's not already well in the realm of obscenity, he can also re-roll his FnP, which is already improved to 4+. My head is spinning trying to even start to figure out how many shots from various weapons it would take to cause even a single wound. I mean, it would take over 12 lascannon equivalent shots in a single round to cause one singular wound. This improves dramatically for anything that isn't AP2 or S7 and up. I can't become to fathom how difficult this would be to kill in a normal size match (1850-2000ish).
Oh but wait. The icing on the cake has yet to come.
It has IWND. Yeah. Every third wound you cause is essentially ignored.
But wait, there's more.
He can re-roll IWND rolls
I have never seen something remotely as durable as this...thing. It is quite literally un-killable in a standard game of 40k.
And here's my point. You can't effectively cost something when each rule you add makes the one before it exponentially better. It becomes not a question of how much each ability costs, but rather what multiplier do you use. You can't simply tag each ability with a +10 here, or a +20 there. Each one of those rules improves all the others, so they need to be considered when costing, not separately in a vacuum.
In short, from a durability perspective alone, points can't balance this. It is so far beyond the realm of normal that it fundamentally breaks any game you'd play him in.
Oh, and lets not forget he's also an absolute beatstick at range and in melee. No weaknesses, hilariously good at everything, and nigh unkillable.
No amount of points can make this balanced. You'll respond the same way you always do, by pointing out some alleged weakness, and then claiming his cost is fair because he's expensive.
Congratulations, you have broken 40k.
Actually, you still cannot take feel no pain rolls againt things that cause instant death, even with eternl warrior. Also, this could only possibly be balanced in apocalypse, only because of D weapons. Furthermore, though these rules do accurately represent guts, it is terribly broken, the only thing that could kill him is asurmen or jaws. Or a mss overlord or terreract labyrinth.
So the Swarmlord would still tear him apart 100% of the time..... I probably should have mentioned it but this was never intended to be used in a normal game if the points cost comparable to a primarch wasn't obvious enough.
curran12 wrote: Costed 'right' does not make it magically not overpowered. It is still a "I WIN BECAUSE I AM A FAN OF THIS ANIME" button.
Yeah, I've spent a great many lengthy posts trying to explain that throwing points at something doens't magically make it balanced.
While I greatly respect Ovion for all his posts here and sound costing methods, I think it falls a little short for this monstrosity.
The problem with Primordial's character is that every ability gets better exponentially from the ability before it.
From a strictly durability perspective, ignoring all offensive capabilities, I'll try and explain why this character can never truly be balanced regardless of points.
First, T5. This is always a nice start for a unit. Multi-wound character automatically become immune to ID from anything less than S10, which is pretty significant. Now we add EW, which effectively plugs that hole. Now his T5 is really nice, because he's now immune to all ID and shrugs off small arms easily.
But here's where it gets silly powerful. He has FnP, and an improved version. Because of his EW rule, he can take his FnP test against ANY wound. There is literally no way to stop him from taking that roll, which increases his durability by 50%, on top of T5. Right, this is an almost unprecedented level of durability that no other unit can match short of huge 300+ pts MC and greater daemons and such.
But wait, there's more. His starts with a respectable 3+ save, but with the berserker armour rule, its nearly guaranteed to become a 2+/5++. Rolling 4D6 on Ld10 just about guarantees he'll 'fail' and get the improved version. So now we have a T5, 2+/5++ FnP (4+) monster. This already is the single most durable character I've ever seen a rule published for in standard 40k games.
Now, if that's not already well in the realm of obscenity, he can also re-roll his FnP, which is already improved to 4+. My head is spinning trying to even start to figure out how many shots from various weapons it would take to cause even a single wound. I mean, it would take over 12 lascannon equivalent shots in a single round to cause one singular wound. This improves dramatically for anything that isn't AP2 or S7 and up. I can't become to fathom how difficult this would be to kill in a normal size match (1850-2000ish).
Oh but wait. The icing on the cake has yet to come.
It has IWND. Yeah. Every third wound you cause is essentially ignored.
But wait, there's more.
He can re-roll IWND rolls
I have never seen something remotely as durable as this...thing. It is quite literally un-killable in a standard game of 40k.
And here's my point. You can't effectively cost something when each rule you add makes the one before it exponentially better. It becomes not a question of how much each ability costs, but rather what multiplier do you use. You can't simply tag each ability with a +10 here, or a +20 there. Each one of those rules improves all the others, so they need to be considered when costing, not separately in a vacuum.
In short, from a durability perspective alone, points can't balance this. It is so far beyond the realm of normal that it fundamentally breaks any game you'd play him in.
Oh, and lets not forget he's also an absolute beatstick at range and in melee. No weaknesses, hilariously good at everything, and nigh unkillable.
No amount of points can make this balanced. You'll respond the same way you always do, by pointing out some alleged weakness, and then claiming his cost is fair because he's expensive.
Congratulations, you have broken 40k.
To be fair, the version I costed has no Eternal Warrior (unless I missed it) and EW is 35pts on its own, which would bring it to the 365pt mark. Ok, I missed it - this thing wants to be at least 365pts, meaning it's 40pts under at 325.
Also, by my fuzzy math (i.e. - done in my head on the fly) it will fail roughly 1/3 of the time on 4D4. So I costed it and divided by 3.
I mean, I can cost up his older / original version if you want, I think it's in some quotes floating about.
Also - as well as my linear '+/-10' base system has worked, I'm not sure if it's... robust enough for some things - so I'm going to create a non-linear guide. I'm pleased people appreciate my efforts. ^-^
Wargear:
- Frag and Krak Grenades
- Artificer Armor
- Lightning Raptor Mount "Ego" (Thunderwolf mount rules)
- Pair of Mastercrafted Powerfists
- Iron Halo
Special Rules:
- Independant Character
- ATSKNF - Pressing Strikes
- Field Marshall
- Eternal Warrior
Warlord Trait: I PUT A HOLE IN THAT *bwomp* - Friendly models add 1 to armor penetration rolls against fortifications, or other destructible buildings
Cost Breakdown John Tronn
Spoiler:
Wolf Lord Base - 100 pts
Lightning Raptor "Ego" - 45 pts
Mastercrafted Pair of Powerfists - 45 pts
Iron Halo - 25 pts
Artificer Armor - 15 pts
Pressing Strikes - 5 pts
Field Marshall - 10 pts
Eternal Warrior - 35 pts
I PUT A HOLE IN THAT *bwomp* - 10 pts
TOTAL: 290 points
curran12 wrote: Costed 'right' does not make it magically not overpowered. It is still a "I WIN BECAUSE I AM A FAN OF THIS ANIME" button.
Yeah, I've spent a great many lengthy posts trying to explain that throwing points at something doens't magically make it balanced.
While I greatly respect Ovion for all his posts here and sound costing methods, I think it falls a little short for this monstrosity.
The problem with Primordial's character is that every ability gets better exponentially from the ability before it.
From a strictly durability perspective, ignoring all offensive capabilities, I'll try and explain why this character can never truly be balanced regardless of points.
First, T5. This is always a nice start for a unit. Multi-wound character automatically become immune to ID from anything less than S10, which is pretty significant. Now we add EW, which effectively plugs that hole. Now his T5 is really nice, because he's now immune to all ID and shrugs off small arms easily.
But here's where it gets silly powerful. He has FnP, and an improved version. Because of his EW rule, he can take his FnP test against ANY wound. There is literally no way to stop him from taking that roll, which increases his durability by 50%, on top of T5. Right, this is an almost unprecedented level of durability that no other unit can match short of huge 300+ pts MC and greater daemons and such.
But wait, there's more. His starts with a respectable 3+ save, but with the berserker armour rule, its nearly guaranteed to become a 2+/5++. Rolling 4D6 on Ld10 just about guarantees he'll 'fail' and get the improved version. So now we have a T5, 2+/5++ FnP (4+) monster. This already is the single most durable character I've ever seen a rule published for in standard 40k games.
Now, if that's not already well in the realm of obscenity, he can also re-roll his FnP, which is already improved to 4+. My head is spinning trying to even start to figure out how many shots from various weapons it would take to cause even a single wound. I mean, it would take over 12 lascannon equivalent shots in a single round to cause one singular wound. This improves dramatically for anything that isn't AP2 or S7 and up. I can't become to fathom how difficult this would be to kill in a normal size match (1850-2000ish).
Oh but wait. The icing on the cake has yet to come.
It has IWND. Yeah. Every third wound you cause is essentially ignored.
But wait, there's more.
He can re-roll IWND rolls
I have never seen something remotely as durable as this...thing. It is quite literally un-killable in a standard game of 40k.
And here's my point. You can't effectively cost something when each rule you add makes the one before it exponentially better. It becomes not a question of how much each ability costs, but rather what multiplier do you use. You can't simply tag each ability with a +10 here, or a +20 there. Each one of those rules improves all the others, so they need to be considered when costing, not separately in a vacuum.
In short, from a durability perspective alone, points can't balance this. It is so far beyond the realm of normal that it fundamentally breaks any game you'd play him in.
Oh, and lets not forget he's also an absolute beatstick at range and in melee. No weaknesses, hilariously good at everything, and nigh unkillable.
No amount of points can make this balanced. You'll respond the same way you always do, by pointing out some alleged weakness, and then claiming his cost is fair because he's expensive.
Congratulations, you have broken 40k.
To be fair, the version I costed has no Eternal Warrior (unless I missed it) and EW is 35pts on its own, which would bring it to the 365pt mark. Ok, I missed it - this thing wants to be at least 365pts, meaning it's 40pts under at 325.
Also, by my fuzzy math (i.e. - done in my head on the fly) it will fail roughly 1/3 of the time on 4D4. So I costed it and divided by 3.
I mean, I can cost up his older / original version if you want, I think it's in some quotes floating about.
Also - as well as my linear '+/-10' base system has worked, I'm not sure if it's... robust enough for some things - so I'm going to create a non-linear guide.
It's not robust enough.
I also fixed a lot of things a couple posts above. Now he doesn't go berserk every game, but if he does.......yeah.
Mr. Burning wrote: Blacksails, It's pointless trying to have any reasonable discussion with ThePrimordial. You are best off commenting on other posters ideas.
Like mine! I've posted my character her 3 times, and made my own thread for him, and twice, from 2 different people, the best response I got was 'What aspect is he for?'. I'm sorry if im sounding selfish and all, but to me it seems that to get a response of any of the people on this thread who's opinion I give a dam about,See Backsail, McNinja and Ovion or any other poster with but a degree of understanding of the balance of the game (you know who you are) I have to create a character who is OP as all Gak with ridiculous special rules or simply be infamous with making decidedly OP characters (And HE knows who HE is). One more time, then I'll have to make him OP as heck
Phoenix Lord Zandros, The bladed Hurricane. 240pts? Could Someone help, I don't know how to point up a phoenix lord when the only equivalent are other Lords
Ws8
Bs8
S4
T4
W3
I8
A4
Ld10
Save 2+
For the record, bump in stats aren't because this phoenix lord is better then the others. Its because I think all phoenix lords should have this stat line. They should be better in combat then a lowly Archon and at least match an assassin.
Wargear. Phoenix armour, plasma grenades,
Remnants of glory
Slicing Orbs of Zandros. Ancient, battered silver orbs are inset into the phoenix lords amour. When battle calls these orbs, beckoned by Zandros's psykic stimuli, begin to orbit Zandros akin to a small moon. Zandros then orders the orbs to fly amongst the seething masses of interlopers and then they explode in a scintillating flash of blades which leaves enemies in bloody chunks.
Range18 Str 5 Ap -assault 2,blast, pinning, rending.
or Range Melee, Strength +1, Ap -, rending, Bladed rotation*
* Zandros inflicts an automatic hit on any enemy model in base contact with him, as well as making his normal attacks.
Warlord traint: Mark of the incomparable hunter
Special Rules:
Ancient doom, battle focus, Eternal warrior, Fearless, Fear, Fleet, Independent character, Psyker (mastery level 2), SoulFire.
SoulFire.Every phoenix lord's armour invariably contains the souls of thousands of powerful exarchs, each spirit coalesced into the greater spirit of the armour much akin to a miniature infinity circuit. This gives the phoenix lord a deep well of psykic power to draw upon with surrounds the Lords warp shadow in blazing soulfire which absorbs and reflects foul Magiks,
The phoenix lord has the Adamantium Will USR and for each successful deny the witch attempted rolled by the phoenix lord the psyker that attempted the power must take a blinding test, as well as any enemy daemons or psykers within 6 inches.
Can only choose powers on the telekinesis table.
Exarch Powers
Fast shot, Course of blades*
Grants a 4+ cover save to Exarch against any weapon blow strength 8, by way of the mystical orbs blocking the blow or obscuring the target
Oh, and before you ask, he is the phoenix lord of the Slicing Orbs of Zandros aspect warriors, who would also be battle-kines who use the same sort of weapons.
Mr. Burning wrote: Blacksails, It's pointless trying to have any reasonable discussion with ThePrimordial. You are best off commenting on other posters ideas.
Like mine! I've posted my character her 3 times, and made my own thread for him, and twice, from 2 different people, the best response I got was 'What aspect is he for?'. I'm sorry if im sounding selfish and all, but to me it seems that to get a response of any of the people on this thread who's opinion I give a dam about,See Backsail, McNinja and Ovion or any other poster with but a degree of understanding of the balance of the game (you know who you are) I have to create a character who is OP as all Gak with ridiculous special rules or simply be infamous with making decidedly OP characters (And HE knows who HE is). One more time, then I'll have to make him OP as heck
Phoenix Lord Zandros, The bladed Hurricane. 240pts? Could Someone help, I don't know how to point up a phoenix lord when the only equivalent are other Lords
Ws8
Bs8
S4
T4
W3
I8
A4
Ld10
Save 2+
For the record, bump in stats aren't because this phoenix lord is better then the others. Its because I think all phoenix lords should have this stat line. They should be better in combat then a lowly Archon and at least match an assassin.
Wargear. Phoenix armour, plasma grenades,
Remnants of glory
Slicing Orbs of Zandros. Ancient, battered silver orbs are inset into the phoenix lords amour. When battle calls these orbs, beckoned by Zandros's psykic stimuli, begin to orbit Zandros akin to a small moon. Zandros then orders the orbs to fly amongst the seething masses of interlopers and then they explode in a scintillating flash of blades which leaves enemies in bloody chunks.
Range18 Str 5 Ap -assault 2,blast, pinning, rending.
or Range Melee, Strength +1, Ap -, rending, Bladed rotation*
* Zandros inflicts an automatic hit on any enemy model in base contact with him, as well as making his normal attacks.
Warlord traint: Mark of the incomparable hunter
Special Rules:
Ancient doom, battle focus, Eternal warrior, Fearless, Fear, Fleet, Independent character, Psyker (mastery level 2), SoulFire.
SoulFire.Every phoenix lord's armour invariably contains the souls of thousands of powerful exarchs, each spirit coalesced into the greater spirit of the armour much akin to a miniature infinity circuit. This gives the phoenix lord a deep well of psykic power to draw upon with surrounds the Lords warp shadow in blazing soulfire which absorbs and reflects foul Magiks,
The phoenix lord has the Adamantium Will USR and for each successful deny the witch attempted rolled by the phoenix lord the psyker that attempted the power must take a blinding test, as well as any enemy daemons or psykers within 6 inches.
Can only choose powers on the telekinesis table.
Exarch Powers
Fast shot, Course of blades*
Grants a 4+ cover save to Exarch against any weapon blow strength 8, by way of the mystical orbs blocking the blow or obscuring the target
It's fine for the points cost. There. There's pretty much nothing wrong with it that's the reason.
Ok, I missed it - this thing wants to be at least 365pts, meaning it's 40pts under at 325.
Also, by my fuzzy math (i.e. - done in my head on the fly) it will fail roughly 1/3 of the time on 4D4. So I costed it and divided by 3.
I mean, I can cost up his older / original version if you want, I think it's in some quotes floating about.
Also - as well as my linear '+/-10' base system has worked, I'm not sure if it's... robust enough for some things - so I'm going to create a non-linear guide.
I'm pleased people appreciate my efforts. ^-^
Yeah, your math is fine, trust me. I have the exact same system in my head when I provide feedback, though yours is more specific than what I personally roll with.
There are quite a bit of people, I'm sure, who are pleased with your constant help in this thread and others.
It is hard to balance the non-linear things. For example, FnP is worth more on a T5 character than a T4 character. But how much more? How does it scale? What about in conjunction with EW? IWND? Its genuinely hard, because when you start stacking complimentary rules, the outcome is greater than the individual rules; you can create some extremely synergistic characters this way, for better or for worse.
Either way, the 40k system is not the best for this kind of work. There's no real formula, unlike several other games where there are actual formulas and rules for building custom everythings.
Oh well, you gotta start analyzing with the numbers, then listen to your gut.
Mr. Burning wrote: Blacksails, It's pointless trying to have any reasonable discussion with ThePrimordial. You are best off commenting on other posters ideas.
Spoiler:
Like mine! I've posted my character her 3 times, and made my own thread for him, and twice, from 2 different people, the best response I got was 'What aspect is he for?'. I'm sorry if im sounding selfish and all, but to me it seems that to get a response of any of the people on this thread who's opinion I give a dam about,See Backsail, McNinja and Ovion or any other poster with but a degree of understanding of the balance of the game (you know who you are) I have to create a character who is OP as all Gak with ridiculous special rules or simply be infamous with making decidedly OP characters (And HE knows who HE is). One more time, then I'll have to make him OP as heck
Phoenix Lord Zandros, The bladed Hurricane. 240pts? Could Someone help, I don't know how to point up a phoenix lord when the only equivalent are other Lords
Ws8
Bs8
S4
T4
W3
I8
A4
Ld10
Save 2+
For the record, bump in stats aren't because this phoenix lord is better then the others. Its because I think all phoenix lords should have this stat line. They should be better in combat then a lowly Archon and at least match an assassin.
Wargear. Phoenix armour, plasma grenades,
Remnants of glory
Slicing Orbs of Zandros. Ancient, battered silver orbs are inset into the phoenix lords amour. When battle calls these orbs, beckoned by Zandros's psykic stimuli, begin to orbit Zandros akin to a small moon. Zandros then orders the orbs to fly amongst the seething masses of interlopers and then they explode in a scintillating flash of blades which leaves enemies in bloody chunks.
Range18 Str 5 Ap -assault 2,blast, pinning, rending.
or Range Melee, Strength +1, Ap -, rending, Bladed rotation*
* Zandros inflicts an automatic hit on any enemy model in base contact with him, as well as making his normal attacks.
Warlord traint: Mark of the incomparable hunter
Special Rules:
Ancient doom, battle focus, Eternal warrior, Fearless, Fear, Fleet, Independent character, Psyker (mastery level 2), SoulFire.
SoulFire.Every phoenix lord's armour invariably contains the souls of thousands of powerful exarchs, each spirit coalesced into the greater spirit of the armour much akin to a miniature infinity circuit. This gives the phoenix lord a deep well of psykic power to draw upon with surrounds the Lords warp shadow in blazing soulfire which absorbs and reflects foul Magiks,
The phoenix lord has the Adamantium Will USR and for each successful deny the witch attempted rolled by the phoenix lord the psyker that attempted the power must take a blinding test, as well as any enemy daemons or psykers within 6 inches.
Can only choose powers on the telekinesis table.
Exarch Powers
Fast shot, Course of blades*
Grants a 4+ cover save to Exarch against any weapon blow strength 8, by way of the mystical orbs blocking the blow or obscuring the target
Oh, and before you ask, he is the phoenix lord of the Slicing Orbs of Zandros aspect warriors, who would also be battle-kines who use the same sort of weapons.
Heh, your character is actually in a list of characters waiting for me to go over, but it means going over the new eldar book and the slicing orbs entries - there's a bunch of stuff that I just don't know atm, while things like the crazy thing are marine base, and so easy to cost.
At a glance, it looks OK, but obviously more indepth work would be needed to confirm that.
Ok, I missed it - this thing wants to be at least 365pts, meaning it's 40pts under at 325.
Also, by my fuzzy math (i.e. - done in my head on the fly) it will fail roughly 1/3 of the time on 4D4. So I costed it and divided by 3.
I mean, I can cost up his older / original version if you want, I think it's in some quotes floating about.
Also - as well as my linear '+/-10' base system has worked, I'm not sure if it's... robust enough for some things - so I'm going to create a non-linear guide.
I'm pleased people appreciate my efforts. ^-^
Yeah, your math is fine, trust me. I have the exact same system in my head when I provide feedback, though yours is more specific than what I personally roll with.
There are quite a bit of people, I'm sure, who are pleased with your constant help in this thread and others.
It is hard to balance the non-linear things. For example, FnP is worth more on a T5 character than a T4 character. But how much more? How does it scale? What about in conjunction with EW? IWND? Its genuinely hard, because when you start stacking complimentary rules, the outcome is greater than the individual rules; you can create some extremely synergistic characters this way, for better or for worse.
Either way, the 40k system is not the best for this kind of work. There's no real formula, unlike several other games where there are actual formulas and rules for building custom everythings.
Oh well, you gotta start analyzing with the numbers, then listen to your gut.
Yeah, and on the linear system (and even that's not an especially accurate name), it sort of evens out.
+10 for both +1T and +FnP, means 20pts total, and it generally works out.
Eternal Warrior is 35pts - you pay that premium, and it's ultimately worth less on a T5 character than a T3 character.
And yes, it's hard - but I'm going to be running with a similar system to what it is, but drawing from the most recent costs of certain things I can - i.e. +15pts for 3+ save to 2+ save.
It'll be quite a bit of work tbh, but worth it I think.
Mr. Burning wrote: Blacksails, It's pointless trying to have any reasonable discussion with ThePrimordial. You are best off commenting on other posters ideas.
Spoiler:
Like mine! I've posted my character her 3 times, and made my own thread for him, and twice, from 2 different people, the best response I got was 'What aspect is he for?'. I'm sorry if im sounding selfish and all, but to me it seems that to get a response of any of the people on this thread who's opinion I give a dam about,See Backsail, McNinja and Ovion or any other poster with but a degree of understanding of the balance of the game (you know who you are) I have to create a character who is OP as all Gak with ridiculous special rules or simply be infamous with making decidedly OP characters (And HE knows who HE is). One more time, then I'll have to make him OP as heck
Phoenix Lord Zandros, The bladed Hurricane. 240pts? Could Someone help, I don't know how to point up a phoenix lord when the only equivalent are other Lords
Ws8
Bs8
S4
T4
W3
I8
A4
Ld10
Save 2+
For the record, bump in stats aren't because this phoenix lord is better then the others. Its because I think all phoenix lords should have this stat line. They should be better in combat then a lowly Archon and at least match an assassin.
Wargear. Phoenix armour, plasma grenades,
Remnants of glory
Slicing Orbs of Zandros. Ancient, battered silver orbs are inset into the phoenix lords amour. When battle calls these orbs, beckoned by Zandros's psykic stimuli, begin to orbit Zandros akin to a small moon. Zandros then orders the orbs to fly amongst the seething masses of interlopers and then they explode in a scintillating flash of blades which leaves enemies in bloody chunks.
Range18 Str 5 Ap -assault 2,blast, pinning, rending.
or Range Melee, Strength +1, Ap -, rending, Bladed rotation*
* Zandros inflicts an automatic hit on any enemy model in base contact with him, as well as making his normal attacks.
Warlord traint: Mark of the incomparable hunter
Special Rules:
Ancient doom, battle focus, Eternal warrior, Fearless, Fear, Fleet, Independent character, Psyker (mastery level 2), SoulFire.
SoulFire.Every phoenix lord's armour invariably contains the souls of thousands of powerful exarchs, each spirit coalesced into the greater spirit of the armour much akin to a miniature infinity circuit. This gives the phoenix lord a deep well of psykic power to draw upon with surrounds the Lords warp shadow in blazing soulfire which absorbs and reflects foul Magiks,
The phoenix lord has the Adamantium Will USR and for each successful deny the witch attempted rolled by the phoenix lord the psyker that attempted the power must take a blinding test, as well as any enemy daemons or psykers within 6 inches.
Can only choose powers on the telekinesis table.
Exarch Powers
Fast shot, Course of blades*
Grants a 4+ cover save to Exarch against any weapon blow strength 8, by way of the mystical orbs blocking the blow or obscuring the target
Oh, and before you ask, he is the phoenix lord of the Slicing Orbs of Zandros aspect warriors, who would also be battle-kines who use the same sort of weapons.
Heh, your character is actually in a list of characters waiting for me to go over, but it means going over the new eldar book and the slicing orbs entries - there's a bunch of stuff that I just don't know atm, while things like the crazy thing are marine base, and so easy to cost.
At a glance, it looks OK, but obviously more indepth work would be needed to confirm that.
Ok, I missed it - this thing wants to be at least 365pts, meaning it's 40pts under at 325.
Also, by my fuzzy math (i.e. - done in my head on the fly) it will fail roughly 1/3 of the time on 4D4. So I costed it and divided by 3.
I mean, I can cost up his older / original version if you want, I think it's in some quotes floating about.
Also - as well as my linear '+/-10' base system has worked, I'm not sure if it's... robust enough for some things - so I'm going to create a non-linear guide.
I'm pleased people appreciate my efforts. ^-^
Yeah, your math is fine, trust me. I have the exact same system in my head when I provide feedback, though yours is more specific than what I personally roll with.
There are quite a bit of people, I'm sure, who are pleased with your constant help in this thread and others.
It is hard to balance the non-linear things. For example, FnP is worth more on a T5 character than a T4 character. But how much more? How does it scale? What about in conjunction with EW? IWND? Its genuinely hard, because when you start stacking complimentary rules, the outcome is greater than the individual rules; you can create some extremely synergistic characters this way, for better or for worse.
Either way, the 40k system is not the best for this kind of work. There's no real formula, unlike several other games where there are actual formulas and rules for building custom everythings.
Oh well, you gotta start analyzing with the numbers, then listen to your gut.
Yeah, and on the linear system (and even that's not an especially accurate name), it sort of evens out.
+10 for both +1T and +FnP, means 20pts total, and it generally works out.
Eternal Warrior is 35pts - you pay that premium, and it's ultimately worth less on a T5 character than a T3 character.
And yes, it's hard - but I'm going to be running with a similar system to what it is, but drawing from the most recent costs of certain things I can - i.e. +15pts for 3+ save to 2+ save.
It'll be quite a bit of work tbh, but worth it I think.
A lot of the feedback got through to me.
I'd appreciate if you could go over the new rules.
He also has a nerf to his Berserker mode and a nerf to his IWND.
Here it is
Guts, the black swordsman
|.WS.|.BS.|.S.|.T.|.W.|.I..|.A.|.Ld.|.Sv.| Points:285
|...7..|..5....|.5.|.5.|..4..|.7.|.6..|.10.|.3+.|
Special Rules: 4+ It Will Not Die, EW, 4+ Feel No Pain, Fearless, Fleet, Preferred Enemy (Daemons)
Wargear: Berserker Armor, Dragon Slayer, Hand Cannon ,Repeating Crossbow
Berserker Armor: Every turn Guts takes a Leadership test on 2D6 if he passes nothing happens if he fails his armor save becomes a 2+, he gains a 5+ Invul, Rerolls failed Feel No Pain saves & It Will Not Die rolls gains Rage,and must charge the nearest unit every turn. You have no control over the movement. He moves in a straight line the direction that means he gets to the target the quickest.
DragonSlayer: The sheer length and size of the sword means that Guts can attack enemies up to 2 inches away. It grants an additional +2 strength when in combat, and is AP:2
Hand Cannon: This is a one use weapon with the following profile: S:9, AP:2, Assault 1, 36 inch range
Repeating Crossbow: This is a ranged weapon with the following profile: S:3, AP:5, Assault 4, 24 inch range
Mr. Burning wrote: Blacksails, It's pointless trying to have any reasonable discussion with ThePrimordial. You are best off commenting on other posters ideas.
Spoiler:
Like mine! I've posted my character her 3 times, and made my own thread for him, and twice, from 2 different people, the best response I got was 'What aspect is he for?'. I'm sorry if im sounding selfish and all, but to me it seems that to get a response of any of the people on this thread who's opinion I give a dam about,See Backsail, McNinja and Ovion or any other poster with but a degree of understanding of the balance of the game (you know who you are) I have to create a character who is OP as all Gak with ridiculous special rules or simply be infamous with making decidedly OP characters (And HE knows who HE is). One more time, then I'll have to make him OP as heck
Phoenix Lord Zandros, The bladed Hurricane. 240pts? Could Someone help, I don't know how to point up a phoenix lord when the only equivalent are other Lords
Ws8
Bs8
S4
T4
W3
I8
A4
Ld10
Save 2+
For the record, bump in stats aren't because this phoenix lord is better then the others. Its because I think all phoenix lords should have this stat line. They should be better in combat then a lowly Archon and at least match an assassin.
Wargear. Phoenix armour, plasma grenades,
Remnants of glory
Slicing Orbs of Zandros. Ancient, battered silver orbs are inset into the phoenix lords amour. When battle calls these orbs, beckoned by Zandros's psykic stimuli, begin to orbit Zandros akin to a small moon. Zandros then orders the orbs to fly amongst the seething masses of interlopers and then they explode in a scintillating flash of blades which leaves enemies in bloody chunks.
Range18 Str 5 Ap -assault 2,blast, pinning, rending.
or Range Melee, Strength +1, Ap -, rending, Bladed rotation*
* Zandros inflicts an automatic hit on any enemy model in base contact with him, as well as making his normal attacks.
Warlord traint: Mark of the incomparable hunter
Special Rules:
Ancient doom, battle focus, Eternal warrior, Fearless, Fear, Fleet, Independent character, Psyker (mastery level 2), SoulFire.
SoulFire.Every phoenix lord's armour invariably contains the souls of thousands of powerful exarchs, each spirit coalesced into the greater spirit of the armour much akin to a miniature infinity circuit. This gives the phoenix lord a deep well of psykic power to draw upon with surrounds the Lords warp shadow in blazing soulfire which absorbs and reflects foul Magiks,
The phoenix lord has the Adamantium Will USR and for each successful deny the witch attempted rolled by the phoenix lord the psyker that attempted the power must take a blinding test, as well as any enemy daemons or psykers within 6 inches.
Can only choose powers on the telekinesis table.
Exarch Powers
Fast shot, Course of blades*
Grants a 4+ cover save to Exarch against any weapon blow strength 8, by way of the mystical orbs blocking the blow or obscuring the target
Oh, and before you ask, he is the phoenix lord of the Slicing Orbs of Zandros aspect warriors, who would also be battle-kines who use the same sort of weapons.
Sorry!
Let's see here...
First, I like it.
Second, I think that the Orbs need to be defined better. Giving them a simple weapon profile works, but they need some tweaking. S4 is fine (instead of S5), mainly because of Rending, but I'm not sure if small floating balls have greater slicing power than a Space Marine or other Phoenix Lord. The Rending is used to represent the flurry of blows and the chance to hit a vital area, so that covers being able to wound large creatures.
I think that instead of assault 2 small blast it could be just one large blast, simply because the orbs would cover more ground that way. Defining how many orbs he actually has would work, but if not that's ok. For the melee profile, I'm not sure, hitting every model in base contact works, but what if he's in a challenge? Would he only get 5 total hits? Granted, that's a lot, but they aren't even AP3, which even Maugan Ra has. Every other lord has an AP2 (or AP1) weapon and at least 5 attacks on the charge. Each PL is a singular wrecking ball. I think that adding in something along the lines of "in a challenge, Zandros gains 1+d3 attacks. This dudes shitck is that he has a gak ton of attacks. Not AP2 attacks like everyone elses, but he has nearly double their attacks in challenges, which evens the playing field. It also makes him better at handling hordes than the others.
More tomorrow, right now I'm helping the gf study for her final. I do like the character, perhaps you could help me invent another aspect? I've been trying to think of one, as you can tell from Illinar, but it just doesn't feel right. Anyway, Zandros is a baller, even if you don't take my suggestions he is well costed and balanced.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ovion wrote: Yeah, and on the linear system (and even that's not an especially accurate name), it sort of evens out.
+10 for both +1T and +FnP, means 20pts total, and it generally works out.
Eternal Warrior is 35pts - you pay that premium, and it's ultimately worth less on a T5 character than a T3 character.
And yes, it's hard - but I'm going to be running with a similar system to what it is, but drawing from the most recent costs of certain things I can - i.e. +15pts for 3+ save to 2+ save.
It'll be quite a bit of work tbh, but worth it I think.
I daresay it's time to make a guide up, then. Since you have gone all Hardcore on the costs of characters, perhaps we can put our collective heads together and think of something.
A lot of the feedback got through to me and now he sits at 425.
I'd appreciate if you could go over the new rules a few posts back. It's about 4-5 posts back.
He also has a nerf to his Berserker mode and a nerf to his IWND.
Here it is
Guts, the black swordsman
|.WS.|.BS.|.S.|.T.|.W.|.I..|.A.|.Ld.|.Sv.| Points:425
|...7..|..5....|.5.|.5.|..4..|.7.|.6..|.10.|.3+.|
Special Rules: 4+ It Will Not Die, EW, 4+ Feel No Pain, Fearless, Fear, Fleet, Preferred Enemy (Daemons)
Wargear: Berserker Armor, Dragon Slayer, Hand Cannon ,Repeating Crossbow
Berserker Armor: Every turn Guts takes a Leadership test on 2D6 if he passes nothing happens if he fails his armor save becomes a 2+, he gains a 5+ Invul, Rerolls failed Feel No Pain saves & It Will Not Die rolls gains Rage,and must charge the nearest unit every turn. You have no control over the movement. He moves in a straight line the direction that means he gets to the target the quickest.
DragonSlayer: The sheer length and size of the sword means that Guts can attack enemies up to 2 inches away. It grants an additional +2 strength when in combat, and is AP:2
Hand Cannon: This is a one use weapon with the following profile: S:9, AP:2, Assault 1, 36 inch range
Repeating Crossbow: This is a ranged weapon with the following profile: S:3, AP:5, Assault 4, 24 inch range
Most of the critique was undue IMO. Right now he is fantastically overpriced, you increased his points by too much in adittion to the(warranted) nerfs.
Remove fear( he is a scary guy, but no daemon) and reduce to 285 points.
Thanks McNinja, I've half made the model and now I've half got rules Strength 4 is ok, I will make that change, but the reason it can't be a large blast is because of his exarch power, fast shot. That gives him an extra shot with everything but flame templates, so instead of 1 large blast, its 2, which I thin is a bit OP, while 2(Well, 3 really) covers about the same area, can hit more people in a confined space and gives more hits against vehicles. That's how i'd look at it. What is he gains an attack for everyone within 1 inches of his base? Giving him a Gak load of attacks, with the downside they have to hit. I think I will lose the + 1 strength in combat to, so they just grant extra attacks and rending. Also do you think being a psyker is too much? Being a level 2 psyker should cost like 40pts, so maybe he should be a bit more? Thanks for looking into it, good luck helping your GF 'study', hope its biology
ALEXisAWESOME wrote: Thanks McNinja, I've half made the model and now I've half got rules Strength 4 is ok, I will make that change, but the reason it can't be a large blast is because of his exarch power, fast shot. That gives him an extra shot with everything but flame templates, so instead of 1 large blast, its 2, which I thin is a bit OP, while 2(Well, 3 really) covers about the same area, can hit more people in a confined space and gives more hits against vehicles. That's how i'd look at it. What is he gains an attack for everyone within 1 inches of his base? Giving him a Gak load of attacks, with the downside they have to hit. I think I will lose the + 1 strength in combat to, so they just grant extra attacks and rending. Also do you think being a psyker is too much? Being a level 2 psyker should cost like 40pts, so maybe he should be a bit more? Thanks for looking into it, good luck helping your GF 'study', hope its biology
Totally forgot about Fast shot! In that case, small blast is fine.
Everything within 1" pretty much only covers those who are in base contact, since the base is about an inch. If you want to give him a gakload of attacks, you could do "for each of his attacks that hit, he inflicts another D3 automatic hits (this could also just give him +d3 attacks her hit)". My thinking is that if the slicing orbs are doing all of the work, those 4/5 attacks would be the number of orbs he has, so 4+maybe another 4D3 is a lot.
And no, not biology. Its Human Anatomy and Physiology
1 inch? I swear I put 2, typing fart How about place a small template over anywhere on his base, and he gets extra attacks equal to how many models are touched by it. And to top it off, when ever an enemy model uses its pile in move to move into base contact with Zandros, they take a strength for rending hit before they get to attack so show them running into a storm of blades. So he will be getting 5 attacks on the charge plus about 3/4 from the small template over him plus attacks when the enemy piles in at their Initiative step +1. That's like 10 or so attacks, plus extra for piling in. He would really get deadly in second turn of combat when everyone piles in around him and he could get 5/6 touched by the template, nasty! I would up his points to 260, but i'd also up the rest of the P.Lords up to round the 240/260 mark.
Mr. Burning wrote: Blacksails, It's pointless trying to have any reasonable discussion with ThePrimordial. You are best off commenting on other posters ideas.
If this is your idea of "helping" a WIP the same thing is more true for you, my buck tooth British friend.
I feel like GW needs to get their head on straight concerning their system, before we can really balance anything except a linear system.
I mean, Libbys in 5th were 100 points, and an Epistolary was 150. Fast forward to DA 6th, and they're 65 and 100 points respectively. Ezekiel is absurdly undercosted by 5th standards, his 3 wounds, 3 attacks, (basically a captain base), 2+ save and force weapon would get him almost to 145 on their own, let alone a psyker power, let alone 3.
I suppose in 6th it works, though he'd still be underpriced. If we assume the 3rd power costs the same as the 2nd, then he'd come in at 135. Problem is, that's before that 3rd wound, 3rd attack, and mastercrafting of the force weapon (also before the +1 WS bubble too).
Or Dorn. Dorn should be about 300 points. He has a 2+/3++, EW, a mastercrafted S10 hammer that adds one on the vehicle damage chart (2 in 6th, though the change to the chart evens things out), bolter drill, grants army wide stubborn, has bolster defenses, and possibly most importantly, has a 4th wound.
Going by 5th's costs, his base termy armor + SS + hammer = 170, then up to 205 with EW. If we make the mastercrafting, +2 str, +1 vehicle damage chart, bolter drill, chapter tactics, and bolster defenses all 10 points each, he's looking at 265. Then you also have that 4th wound...
Anyone else want a force with Lysander and Grimnar together? That list would have very few models, but dang the top guys would be hard to kill.
DogofWar1 wrote: I feel like GW needs to get their head on straight concerning their system, before we can really balance anything except a linear system.
I mean, Libbys in 5th were 100 points, and an Epistolary was 150. Fast forward to DA 6th, and they're 65 and 100 points respectively. Ezekiel is absurdly undercosted by 5th standards, his 3 wounds, 3 attacks, (basically a captain base), 2+ save and force weapon would get him almost to 145 on their own, let alone a psyker power, let alone 3.
I suppose in 6th it works, though he'd still be underpriced. If we assume the 3rd power costs the same as the 2nd, then he'd come in at 135. Problem is, that's before that 3rd wound, 3rd attack, and mastercrafting of the force weapon (also before the +1 WS bubble too).
Or Dorn. Dorn should be about 300 points. He has a 2+/3++, EW, a mastercrafted S10 hammer that adds one on the vehicle damage chart (2 in 6th, though the change to the chart evens things out), bolter drill, grants army wide stubborn, has bolster defenses, and possibly most importantly, has a 4th wound.
Going by 5th's costs, his base termy armor + SS + hammer = 170, then up to 205 with EW. If we make the mastercrafting, +2 str, +1 vehicle damage chart, bolter drill, chapter tactics, and bolster defenses all 10 points each, he's looking at 265. Then you also have that 4th wound...
Anyone else want a force with Lysander and Grimnar together? That list would have very few models, but dang the top guys would be hard to kill.
ALEXisAWESOME wrote: 1 inch? I swear I put 2, typing fart How about place a small template over anywhere on his base, and he gets extra attacks equal to how many models are touched by it. And to top it off, when ever an enemy model uses its pile in move to move into base contact with Zandros, they take a strength for rending hit before they get to attack so show them running into a storm of blades. So he will be getting 5 attacks on the charge plus about 3/4 from the small template over him plus attacks when the enemy piles in at their Initiative step +1. That's like 10 or so attacks, plus extra for piling in. He would really get deadly in second turn of combat when everyone piles in around him and he could get 5/6 touched by the template, nasty! I would up his points to 260, but i'd also up the rest of the P.Lords up to round the 240/260 mark.
What if... instead of allowing to make his normal attacks, he placed small blast markers anywhere in base contact with his base, equal in number to the amount of attacks he has? That'd give him a ton of rending attacks
Equipment: Rune Armor, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade, Ghosthelm, Eldar Jetbike, Runes of Warding, Runes of Witnessing
Special Rules:
Psyker – Moria generates her powers from the Divination, Telepathy, and Runes of Fate disciplines.
Chosen of the Crone - In a primary detachment that includes Moria, Howling Banshees are troops choices instead of elites.
Remnants of Glory-
Pouch of Fates: This ancient leather pouch was said to have once been carried by Morai-Heg, but now rests in the hands of Moria. It is adorned with many Eldar runes, and said to contain the fate of all mortals within it. By peering into the pouch Moria can learn the fates of those nearby, be they friend or foe.
At the beginning of your turn you may choose to peer into the bag and learn of a units fate. Nominate one unit within 24” that Moria has line of site to. If that unit is an enemy until the start of its next turn it suffers a -1 to all saves (A unit with a 6+ in a save then loses that save all together), as Moria has seen it is fated to die. If the unit is friendly it gains a +1 (to a maximum of +2)to all saves until the start of their next turn, Moria has seen that this unit is not fated to die today. Every time Moria peers into the bag, the secrets of the future wrack her mind and senses - she immediately takes a Strength 3 AP1 hit, with the Ignores Cover and Blind special rules. If Moria nominated herself or her own unit, she instead suffers a Strength 6 AP1 hit, with the Ignores Cover and Blind special rules, as knowing ones own destiny can be too much for anyone to know.
So not quite 'unique' but certainly a Character that I though you lot might enjoy, primarily intended for smaller games but could be fun even in bigger 'themed' lists:
X Commander
Army: Any
BG: When smaller task forces are sent out, they do not always warrant the extensive skills and experience of high ranking Captains.
Instead command of these forces are delegated to more experienced Sergeants and Champions.
FO:HQ Squad: X Commander*
Unit: X Commander, Points Per: As Character +15, Models: 1, Unit Type: As Character,
WS-As Character, BS-As Character, S-As Character, T-As Character, W-As Character +1, I-As Character, A-As Character, Ld-As Character, Sv-As Character.
*You may select any non-HQ Character model within the Codex to use as an X Commander, where X is the units name (i.e. Space Marine Sergeant Commander or Terminator Champion Commander).
The chosen model may take any wargear or options it could take as part of its original unit.
Limited Authority: All units count as 0-1 if X Commanders are the only HQ choice taken, though you may choose one Troops choice to be 0-2.
(Note, if you select 2 X Commanders, you can still only have one 0-2 Troops Choice and all other unit remain 0-1).
Wargear:
As Character
Special Rules:
As Character
Independent Character
Options:
As Character
TL;DR:
Choose any non-HQ character model, pay its cost +15pts to make it an Independent Character with +1W.
All units become 0-1, bar one Troops Choice which is now 0-2.
EXAMPLES:
C:CSM: I choose a Terminator Champion Commander, with the Mark of Slaanesh and Veterans of the Long War for 55pts (33 for Champion, 7 for upgrades, 15 for X Commander).
It now has 2W and is an Independent Character, and I select Chaos Space Marines for my 0-2 unit.
C:E / CE; I choose a Harlequin Death Jester Commander, for 43pts (28 for Death Jester, 15 for X Commander).
It now has 2W and is an Independent Character, and I select Guardians / Wyches for my 0-2 unit.
CE: I choose a Grotesque Aberration Commander, with a Venom Blade for 65pts (45 for Aberration, 5 for upgrades, 15 for X Commander).
It now has 4W and is an Independent Character, and I select Kabalite Warriors for my 0-2 unit.
C:TE: I choose a Stealth Shas'vre Commander, with a Markerlight and Target Lock for 65pts (40 for Stealth Shas'vre, 10 for upgrades, 15 for X Commander).
It now has 2W and is an Independent Character, and I select Kroot Carnivores for my 0-2 unit.
Special Rules:
Fearless
Roundhouse
It Will Not Die
Shirt:
Provides a 2+ save and 2+ Invulnerable Save
Fists:
These are a CCW with the following profile:
Str-User, AP-1, Melee, Instant Death, Armourbane, Fleshbane. (Pwnage? - rules missing, also 'enroll wound or armour pen' is gibberish)
Roundhouse:
Once per turn he actual rules gibberish, deleted
Ok, so first, you missed its unit type.
Next, terribly written - some of it is just nonsense.
What's a Pwnage?
What's an enroll wound or armour pen? (reroll to wound and armour pen?)
I'm assuming your Roundhouse Rule is meant to nominate 1 model on the field, and remove it from the game.
I'd make it 1 model within 6", takes an auto-wound or auto-pen.
Artificer Armor
Iron Halo
Mark. 6 'Argo' Pattern Storm Bolter (gives +1 to BS (already in stats)
Signum
Xenos-Bane Power Sword (fleshbane and rending power sword)
Special Ammo
Sternguard may be taken as troop choices. in addition they may be given targeting scopes for 15 pts per model (firing scopes give +1 to BS and allows precision shots on a 4+.
"Sternguard veteran" title makes no sense, as Sternguard are vetrans themselves.
This guy looks like a glorified sergeant akin to FW Red Scorpion special sargeants, so who is he fluff-wise? Sternguard squad sarge?
And if anyone should move sterns to the troops, it must be 1-st company Captain - the ultimate boss of all chapter's Sternguards Vanguards and Terminators, not a lowly sarge, who shouldn't even be a HQ choice. So I can suggest him just to make his own sternie squad scoring.
Falkus Kibre was Captain of the Justaerin during the Heresy, serving as Abaddon's Equerry and de-facto second in command of First Company. Currently, he serves as the chief of Abaddon's personal Terminator bodyguard, and is most often found spearheading his master's trademark teleportation assaults.
Codex: Chaos Space Marines- Black Legion supplement
190 points
Type: Infantry (character)
Composition: 1 (unique)
WS6 BS5 S4 T4 W3 I5 A3 Ld10 Sv2+
Wargear: twin-linked bolter, power fist
Justaerin armour: This is a set of Terminator armour that grants a 4+ invulnerable save.
Special Rules: Independent Character, Sworn Protector (Abaddon the Despoiler), Veterans of the Long War, Fearless
Master of the Justaerin: If Falkus Kibre is your Warlord, a single Terminator squad can be upgraded to Justaerin. They replace their Terminator armor with Justaerin armor for 10 points each. If Abaddon is taken as your Warlord and Falkus Kibre is also included in the same detachment, then as many units of Terminators as you want can take this upgrade.
Spearhead: Falkus Kibre and any unit he joins are Scoring, provided they Deep Strike into play.
CalasTyphon216 wrote: They replace their Terminator armor with Justaerin armor for 10 points each.
MoT have the same effect on the terminators and cost only 5 pts.
I costed it 10 points because you can STACK MoT on top of this for a 3+
Yeah, i know, and so with fists, Justaerin and MoT you get 8 pts over loyalist assault hammernator with all their AtKNF, Combat Squads, consussive hammers, chapter-specific rules and access to teleport beacons on pods/scouts for safe deep strikes with only combi-bolters as your only advantage. 4-5 pts is OK for 4++ if you plan to bolster it with MoT.
CalasTyphon216 wrote: They replace their Terminator armor with Justaerin armor for 10 points each.
MoT have the same effect on the terminators and cost only 5 pts.
I costed it 10 points because you can STACK MoT on top of this for a 3+
Yeah, i know, and so with fists, Justaerin and MoT you get 8 pts over loyalist assault hammernator with all their AtKNF, Combat Squads, consussive hammers, chapter-specific rules and access to teleport beacons on pods/scouts for safe deep strikes with only combi-bolters as your only advantage. 4-5 pts is OK for 4++ if you plan to bolster it with MoT.
I costed them higher because the idea is to run them Tzeentch or Nurgle, with Abaddon and Falkus, for a very expensive but ludicrously tough SCORING unit. THat gets Preferred enemy against space marines
Sorry, don't know how to use spoilers. Please read and give a points value on this guy.
His homeworld was attacked by 'nids and was saved by Space Marines. They now act as the Space Marine's Scout Company and are recon experts.
Major Hector Beckett
May replace Company Commander
Wargear: Polonia Pattern Bolter, The Twins, carapace armour, frag and krak grenades, melta bombs
Polonia Pattern Bolter: This is a boltgun made especially for Beckett upon the regiment's induction to the Death Angels Chapter. It is well suited to the regiment's clandestine missions.
Range: 24
S: 4
AP: 5
Special Rules: Heavy 2, Pinning
The Twins: These are a pair of deadly fangs wrenched from the maw of a Tyranid biocreature. They have served Beckett well, but still serve the Hive Mind.
Range: -
S: User
AP: 3
Special Rules: Melee, Poisoned (2+), Servants of the Hive Mind
Servants of the Hive Mind: If Major Beckett rolls a 1 to hit with the The Twins, he suffers a wound at AP3. Saves may be taken.
Special Rules: Last Officer, Commander of the 1st, Regiment Tactics, Hatred (Tyranids)
Last Officer: Major Beckett is the last surviving officer of the Polonian regiment. However, his men are highly drilled to react to his orders.
Major Beckett may issue up to three orders per turn with an 18" radius. He has access to all commands available to Company Commanders.
Commander of the 1st: The Polonian 1st do not have many men or armoured vehicles at their disposal, but have superior training and wargear.
In any detachment that includes Major Beckett, all Sentinel and Leman Russ squadrons are 0-1. Veteran Squads are 0-9. No other units apart from
The Company Command Squad Beckett was bought in
Veteran Squads
Sentinel squadrons
Valkyrie Assault Carrier squadrons
Vendetta Gunship squadrons
Leman Russ squadrons
may be taken.
Regimental Advisors and Chimeras may not be taken.
Additionally, all WS and BS profiles are increased to 4 in any detachment that includes Beckett. Veteran Squads or Beckett's command squad may take Valkyries or Vendettas as dedicated transports. They may also have the Deep Strike rule for 30 points.
Regiment Tactics: All units in the same detachment as Major Beckett have the Stealth, Move Through Cover and Scout rules. This includes Beckett and his command squad. In addition, any squads in Beckett's detachment entering play via Deep Strike may do so on the first turn.
CalasTyphon216 wrote: I costed them higher because the idea is to run them Tzeentch or Nurgle, with Abaddon and Falkus, for a very expensive but ludicrously tough SCORING unit. THat gets Preferred enemy against space marines
You already paying 55 extra points for the character who allow this.
What's the general feel in terms of cost of Warlord traits? They seem built-in for most HQs, which would mean they don't generally raise the price of the HQ or characters, but I'm not sure.
@Sgt_Smudge: I think your "character" would be better off as a custom alternate IG armylist. No offense, but too many rules and too many non-character/unit changes.
Special Rules
Kommandoflage: When outflanking from reserves, Shin'Grak and his unit may enter from the border of the piece of terrain closest to the enemy board edge. His unit can also attempt a charge after coming in from reserve.
Backstab: Before blows are struck in any assault phase in which his unit has charged, Shin'grak may attempt a backstab attack. After passing an initiative test, Shin'grak forgoes all his normal attacks for a single attack that is AP2 and strikes at I10
Boss Brakk'skot Blad'masta
WS6 BS2 T5 W3 I4 A3 Ld9 Sv4+
'Eavy Armor, Stikk Bombs
Da Killa Klaive - A colossal, motorized, 'Uge Choppa containing a built-in kombi-skorcha
R18" S4 AP6 Assault2
R Template S4 AP5 Assault1, One Use
R- S+2 AP2 Melee, Two-handed, Jam
Jam - After using the melee profile, roll a d6. On a 1 something has jammed in teeth and chains and Da Killa Klaive is treated as a regular 'Uge Choppa for the remainder of the game.
Codex: DA GOLEM-FIST TACTICAL SQUAD - 200 points FOC -Troops Composition: 10 Space Marine Golems WS4|BS4|S4|T4|W1|I4|A2|Ld8|Sv3+
Wargear: Power armour, Bolter, Frag/Krak, Adamantamarine Mantle
Rules: ATSKNF, Grim resolve.
Adamantamarine Mantle: At the beginning of any friendly turn you can declare that the unit is activating the protection of the Golem's spirit by tuning into their mantles. Until the beginning of the next friendly turn, each model becomes T6 and all of its saves become invulnerable. In addition, no model under the effect may Move, Run, or Charge. If the unit is assaulted, each model must halve its attacks (rounding up), and all of it's melee attacks are treated as Unwieldy.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Codex: DA Vet Sgt. Florance V
FOC - Replaces base Sergeant or Veteran Sergeant in any Scout, Tactical, Company Veteran squad in the army for +85pts, or any Assault squad in the army for 100 points
Parry & Riposte: A simple treasured fighting technique through the Florance family's history.
During combat, if any opposing model in base contact with Florance misses an attack, Florance immediately takes an initiative test to parry. If failed, nothing happens. If successful, Florance strikes a riposte against the model. This is a single attack with Ironpecker, with +2S.
Roll to wound as usual.
If the enemy fights at a higher initiative than Florance, the total amount of successful Parries he makes are deducted from the amount of attacks he can make that round - he has already struck them. If, however, Florance has already made his attacks, he may parry any number of times generating 'free extra attacks' - now he's merely taking advantage of opportunities.
Ironpecker: A chainsword with the following profile: User|AP-|Melee, Rending
Codex: DAHQ slot
Lord-Librarian Santé, Foreseer of the Storm - 215pts
WS6|BS4|S4|T4[5]|W3|I5|A4|Ld10|Sv2+
Bike (character, unique)
Wargear: Boltdriver, Space marine bike, Artificer armour
Rules: ATSKNF, Independent character, Inner Circle, Psyker (Master lv2), Santé's Sword Technique
Boltdriver: A sterdy basic longsword used in training, with the requested addition of a chainsword function on it's blunted
side. This allows the user to deliver stunning combos. It is embued with the mystical lightning energy of 'The Storm'.
User|AP-|Melee, Lightning Spirit. It can also shoot with the following profile; 12"|S1|AP-|Assault 1, Lightning Spirit.
Lightning spirit: Each time a weapon with this special rule slays an enemy model, you may improve it's AP value by 1 (to a
maximum AP1), or it's Strength bonus by 1 (to a maximum +9). Note that whether Santé slays an enemy with Boltdriver in range
battle or close combat, the scale bonus is applied to both.
Psyker: Santé can generate 1 power only from the Lightning dicipline and 1 from Pyromancy, Divination, Telepathy or
Telekinesis diciplines
Sword Technique: Using both elements of his hybrid weapon, Santé can lash out an unmissable flare of attacks that no enemy
can defend. Declare at the start of combat that Santé is using his sword technique. Reduce his attacks that turn by 1, in
addition, he can re-roll all failed To Wound rolls in combat that turn.
Psyker: Promythyne can generate 1 power only from the Lightning dicipline and 1 from Pyromancy, Divination, Telepathy or
Telekinesis diciplines
Sword Technique: Promythyne can smash his hammer deep into the ground, calling upon his connection to Thunder to pulse tides
of surging energy and unbearable sound toward his foes. Unlike other Techniques, this can be used in the shooting or assault
phase. In the shooting phase, it is fired as a ranged weapon with the following profile: Template|S-User+D6|AP2|Ordnance 1
In combat, you can declare he is using his sword technique at the beginning of the round. Instead of making any normal
attacks, place the Template over Promythyne. Any model, except Promythyne, under the template suffers a hit equal to his
current Strength +D6, resolved at AP2.
Promythyne and Santé, Lord Twins of the Storm
Spoiler:
Codex: DAHQ Slot
Promythyne and Santé, Lord Twins of the Storm - 450pts
FOC - Cannot be taken if either Promythyne or Santé are taken as individual choices.
WS7|BS4|S4|T5|W6|I6|A8|Ld10|Sv2+FNP5++
Monstrous Creature (unique)
This is a character I've created as one of two leaders of a group of Ork freebootas known as the Blitz Boys. These freebootas are made up of former Deffskulls and Blood Axes. The Deffskull half is primarily made up of Lootas, Burnas, and walkers led by a Big Mek named Grubbitz who is the primary leader of the freeboota group as a whole. The Blood Axes side of things provides most of the footsloggin' boyz and is led by a Stormboy known as Baron Von Boomdakka who is acting as second in command to Grubbitz. At present Grubbitz doesn't have any special rules other than those already afforded to a Big Mek with the loadout that he has. Boomdakka however, as a Stormboy, required some special modifications to make him stand out as a character and be on the same level as an HQ like Grubbitz.
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Baron Von Boomdakka - 100 pts.
WS-5, BS-2, S-4, T-4. W-2, I-3. A-4, Ld-9, Sv+4
Wargear: Stormboy Rokkit Pack, Stikkbomz, Boss Pole, 'eavy Armour, Power Klaw, Slugga
Special Rules: Mob Rule, Furious Charge, Waaagh!
The Blitz Boys: Boomdakka can be taken in place of a Nob in a Stormboy unit. His unit must enter battle via Deep Strike.
Scouted Landing: Boomdakka is a self proclaimed tactical genius. As such he does not always charge headlong and completely recklessly into the enemy. When he is feeling particularly "strategic" he elects to send a handful of his Boyz out to scout a safe landing zone. Once they jump, he merely needs to follow the smoke trail that does not end in fiery wreckage and aim there...or if all of them do he needs to aim somewhere else. When making their entry via Deep Strike you may choose to sacrifice d3 models in the unit, removing them as casualties. If you do, the unit does not scatter for the Deep Strike.
Swoop Attack: Other times Boomdakka prefers to eschew the more strategic and safe approach and instead turn his unit into something of a living, screaming, arm flailing projectile. When entering battle via Deep Strike, and if Scouted Landing was not used, Boomdakka's unit may assault the turn it comes into play. They may not shoot that turn, however. If you choose to assault the turn it enters play, remove d3 models from the unit as crash landing casualties.
Parley: As a former Blood Axe, Boomdakka is not above parlaying with the enemy to try and leverage the situation into his favor. After both players have deployed and before the first turn is played you may have a roll-off with the opponent. If you win the roll-off you may re-deploy D3 units.
Veteran Sergeant Dramorian
Slot: Bought as upgrade for Sternguard Veterans
Points: 100
Background: Within the Death Angels decimated 1st Company, there is one Space Marine who stands out from his brothers. Veteran Sergeant Dramorian has commanded his squad of Sternguard Veterans for over two centuries with peerless skill and dedication. Personally, Dramorian has tested his skill at arms again nearly every creature the galaxy has thrown at him and has no been found wanting. His squad formed the lynchpin of Utopia's defensive line during the invasion of Hive Fleet Manticore, under his experience. Indeed, the only reason he is not a Captain is his passion of being a Sternguard.
Utopia's Finest:
Dramorian's squad of Sternguard Veterans are some of the best Space Marines in the Chapter, trained and honed by the sergeant himself.
Veteran Sergeant Dramorian's squad is scoring.
Battle Tactics:
A master of warfare, Dramorian can manoeuvre his squad to be at maximum effectiveness to fight any foe.
In the controlling player's shooting phase, before the squad does anything, decide which Battle Tactic Dramorian will use.
Rapid Approach: Dramorian's squad may run and shoot in the same phase. It must be done in this order. Heavy weapons count as having moved.
Shadows of Death: Dramorian and his squad immediately gain +2 to their cover save. This gives them 5+ cover in the open.
Defensive Fire: The unit may not shoot this turn. If Dramorian's squad is charged in the subsequent Assault Phase, all shots fired in Overwatch hit on a 5+. Template Weapons instead roll 1d6 for Wall of Fire.
Here is my uppdated version of my riptide commander that I might use for an upcoming campaign if the rules seems somewhat balanced. Ar'Ofesume has gone renagade after finding out that the Ethereal caste were performing genetic experimenting on the population of his own home sept, N'dras.
Works as a normal nova reactor except that it functions on a 4+, failed attempts do not cause a wound on the commander and nova-charge is exchanged to:
Enhanced targeting: Ar'Ofesume may fire one of his weapons at a different unit
Dantioch wrote: Here is my uppdated version of my riptide commander that I might use for an upcoming campaign if the rules seems somewhat balanced. Ar'Ofesume has gone renagade after finding out that the Ethereal caste were performing genetic experimenting on the population of his own home sept, N'dras.
Works as a normal nova reactor except that it functions on a 4+, failed attempts do not cause a wound on the commander and nova-charge is exchanged to:
Enhanced targeting: Ar'Ofesume may fire one of his weapons at a different unit
Total: 285
Not a bad character overall, and twin-burst cannons will certainly look cool.
There's a lack of drawbacks (no chance of wounding, can fire all its weapons a turn, etc), but it's not too OTT, so it's probably OK.
Artificer Armor
Iron Halo
Mark. 6 'Argo' Pattern Storm Bolter (gives +1 to BS (already in stats)
Signum
Xenos-Bane Power Sword (fleshbane and rending power sword)
Special Ammo
ATSKNF, Favored Enemy (Xenos) Relentless,
Sternguard may be taken as troop choices. in addition they may be given targeting scopes for 15 pts per model (firing scopes give +1 to BS and allows precision shots on a 4+.
they may also be given powered bayonets that count as power swords for 20 pts per model.
Allow sternguards to take fancy hats order them to stand in line and TADA!~U have Wh40k version of napoleonic wars musketeers. I like him but i think he should be like 220-230.
After the separation of the Enclaves from the Tau empire, the followers of farsight were forced to move further away then ever explored by the Empire, moving away from the relative safety of the known space, and veered into the great unknown, with all its dangers.
On one such expedition, a group of earth caste engineers were escorted by a mere cadre of the fire caste as they went to research an unknown planet, filled with dense forests, where strange reading were detected, first though of as static noise, but clearly discovered to be that the noise is actually real, and the planet is filled with it.
A pair of orca dropships have landed, and a group consisting of two dozen engineers, with a dozen fire warriors, a crisis team and a lone hazard suit as escorts went to explore, while the others remained to establish a base of operations, among them were the commanding shas'o and the bulk of the force.
The exploration team have eventually encountered the origin, a band of what at first seemed like the elite warriors of the Impeium of man, clad in black and pink armor, were keeping themselves amused by causing bizarre sounds, and torturing local wildlife.
The team attempted to connect the base, but with no respond they feared the worse. they rushed back only to find the base destroyed, with only a handful survives who have told stories of horror about the arrival of the warriors in pink, the horrid screeches as shots hit those who took cover as if the trees were never there, the shouts that melted battlesuits, and the torments they have inflicted on those captured alive, torments who have only ended when the victim was no longer able to scream, and was left to die.
There was nothing that could be done for the survivors, and as an act of mercy they were put out of their suffering.
During the following days the group has taken into hiding, with the hazard pilot taking command over, and managing the survival. he noted none of those under his command are properly equipped to fight such an enemy, nor in such environment. the burst cannons mounted on all suits were unfit for penetrating the thick armor, lacked the range for hit-and-run tactics, and were still hinder by the thick treeline. and he devised a plan.
He waited to find a handful of tormentors isolated in patrol, and by employing a well-placed ambush he managed to command lead the crisis pilots to kill the patrol in a single, well timed volley, after scavenging the bodies for the weapons they retreaded, and the earth caste modified them to fit into the crisis suits, and even modify the vocal cannon to be powered by the hazard suit, causing some sort of subsonic hum that left those unused to it quickly incapacitated.
The refitted suits them began a series of hit-and-run strikes, preventing any approach to the foot-restricted survivors until a ship came to check what has happened, and evacuated the group.
For his actions the hazard pilot has eared the name He'Elro, the unlimited voice, marking his new-found proficiency with sonic weaponry, and he was promoted to a command position, despite the fact he has not completed the customary trials, his experiences was considered unquestionable proof of his worth.
Type: Jetpack Infantry (independent character)
Composition: 1 (unique)
WS5 BS5 S5 T5 W4 I4 A4 Ld10 Sv3+
Wargear: XV9 Battlesuit, Stimulate Injector, Sonic Blaster, Doom Siren
Rules: Supporting Fire, Extremely Bulky, Favorite Enemy (Chaos Space Marines), Sonic Specialty
Warlord Trait: Through Surety, Destruction
Signature System-Subsonic Pitch Emitter:The Subsonic Pitch Emitter is a device made to amplify the sonic weaponry by generating pulses of nauseating soundwaves to accompany the destructive high-pitched ones, deafening unprepared foes and rendering them unable to resist the mont'ka. At the beginning of He'Elro's shooting phase, each enemy unit within 12" must take a leadership test, if they fail the test they suffer a -1 Weapon Skill and -1 Ballistic Skill penalty until the end of the next turn, the effect can never take WS or BS lower then 1.
Units with no leadership values are immune to the effect (such as vehicles.)
Sonic Specialty:He'Elro's suit was modified to resist and absolve incoming violent sonic pitches, rendering them little more then a disturbance, he also equipped his followers with this type of weapons.. He'Elro cannot be wounded by any sonic weapon.
One XV8 Crisis Suit team in an army that includes He'Elro may take Sonic Blasters for 10 points each.
So yes, its a heavy-duty commander, who gives you "noise marines" crisis team.
He is heavily costed, but packs a mean punch on both the offensive, and the defensive, and allows you to pull a unique unit that will require its own tactics to bring out the max potential from, I suggest SB/flamer suits (maybe throw a AFP in there for good measure). will fit in with He'Elro quite well as a hybrid harass/pressure team.
Overall I would love to take him into a game, yet I doubt any will find him overpowered. especially considering the cost.
Pricing logic:
Spoiler:
XV9 base 75 points
Minus two TLBC=-30 points (15 points each, per codex price on crisis suit)
Promotion to shas'o from shas'vre (based on crisis costs): +2WS, +2BS,+2W,+1I, +2A +1Ld=53 points
Additional +1 Ld=5 points
XV9 Stimulate Injector: 25 points
Fixed Trait=10 points
Sonic blaster: 6 points (based on noise marine, 1 for lost bolter, 3 for blaster, +50% for off-codex gun)
Doom Siren: 21 points (based on noise marine, 15+50% for off-codex gun, rounded down)
Sonic Specialty: 3 points. (the immunity is unlikely to come up, and the gun option comes with its own costs.)
Favorite Enemy: 5 points.
Subsonic Pitch Emitter: 5 points (not sure about this one, it requires testing to see if its strong or weak.)
Total: 180.
Though maybe its too much. pure combining does not compute overkill of systems coming from the XV9, and the fact T5 FnP can be achieved by a regular commander for the same price, with a 2+ armor.
I'm glad you liked it, was afraid it was getting a bit too much "cheesy sob story"
Good point on the twin-linking though. I was influenced by crisis "TL everything" thinking and forgot to make sure I don't out-sonic the noise marines.
Taking off that option.
How do you feel about the cost though? I am seriously thinking it's too much, but I am afraid to go mery-sue on him, and undercost the man. fish. goat. tau. something.
No model ATM, I figured I should really get some sort of review for him if he even makes sense before I spend my hard-eared monies on a model that mostly likely I'll never be allowed to play.
When I'll eventually make him (if it will happen), I will base him over the PIGs XV9 body, then mount on bits from the noise marines pack to make him appear more "sonic"
I don't like the whole can't be wounded by sonic stuff simply because he is used to it. Sonic doesn't kill you by making you listen to bad music, sonic kills you by vibrating at such a high speed and frequency that it ruptures your organs and explodes your brain. You can't really get 'used' to that. And you might want to up the sonic plaster to a blast master, because 3 strength 4 shots that ignore cover really isn't very good compared to what a normal commander can get.
I think he's costed about right to be honest, theres a lot better force multipliers in your codex for a similar points cost, all this one is doing is granting a little more personality to your suits, which I like. It works.
Only thing I would say is to alter the sub-sonic emitter to something like :Take a Ld test immediately after this model has finished firing. if passed, the Unit remains unchanged. If the test is failed, the enemy unit (and any attached characters) suffer -1 to WS & BS for each point the test failed by, to a minimum of one. In either case, the unit takes any other tests as needed.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Blast Masters would be overpowered on Crisis Teams I think...
The blast master would be just for him, only sonic for crisis teams. I thought it would just be something to make him stand out from that sonic blasters of the crisis teams.
Hi guys, I had a few ideas for a Tuska house rules set for games with my friends and just wondered what you guys think of them. Any improvements or tweaks would be gratefully accepted
For those of you who don't know who Tuska is.....Why not? :-D He's the Ork that raided the Eye Of Terror and got further than any Space Marine ever has!!
Tuska: 210 points.
Stats WS6 BS2 S5 T5 W3 I5 A5 Ld9 Sv 3+
Wargear: Boss Pole, Cybork Body, Power Klaw, Tuskas Armour, Deemun Killa.
Tuskas Armour: Tuska wears the usual cobbled together plates that make up what the Orks call "Eavy Armour" but with one difference, his is adorned with the horns of the 1st warp beast he ever killed. The horns have retained a modicum of warp energy that increase his armour save to 3+.
Deemun Killa: This is an Ork Choppa that has been soaked in the blood and ichor of many daemons, it is treated as a power sword that confers +1 attack (included in the profile) and the "Hatred(Daemons)" special rule to Tuska and any unit he joins. Also, Tuska can choose between this and his Power Klaw as to which he is fighting with in each round of combat.
Special Rules: Eternal Warrior, Survivors Of The Eye.
Eternal Warrior: Tuskas battle hardened, scarred frame has left him with skin nearly as tough as ceramite and he is able to withstand wounds which would easily fell any other Warboss.
Survivors Of The Eye: In addition to the normal rules for a Warboss regarding a unit of Nobz or Mega Nobz as a troop choice, one unit of Nobz can be upgraded to be Tuskas fellow "survivors of the eye" for 10 points per model, these Nobz have the "Rage" and "Counter Attack" special rules to represent the experienced warriors that they are. Also, only the strongest willed Weirdboyz survived along with Tuska in the Eye Of Terror, to represent this, any Weirdboy taken in Tuskas army that takes the Warphead upgrade can choose which Ork psychic power he wishes to use each shooting phase (with the exception of Waaagh!) and has a Leadership of 9.
ALEXisAWESOME wrote: I don't like the whole can't be wounded by sonic stuff simply because he is used to it. Sonic doesn't kill you by making you listen to bad music, sonic kills you by vibrating at such a high speed and frequency that it ruptures your organs and explodes your brain. You can't really get 'used' to that. And you might want to up the sonic plaster to a blast master, because 3 strength 4 shots that ignore cover really isn't very good compared to what a normal commander can get.
You are probably right, though it is a fun "gimmik" ability. refluffed it as part of the suit's specs though. (as in, the suit is designed to nullify sonic weapons)
As for the blastmaster, wont a combo blastmaster-doom siren be an overwkill of firepower? he will be a heavy threat anything that isn't a 2+ from a distance that way, and decimate them at short ranges.
And if I switch the siren for the blastmaster, he will lose his "up close and personal" aspect, and become a pure ranged bomber. and XV9 are supposed to be point-blank guys, with the built in VRT, photon casters and the rest of the point-blank goodness.
Not to mention the fact he will become a though HQ with a 48" gun, who packs quite a punch, and as mobile as jetpacks are. won't the synergy be too powerful?
As for the alternate rule idea-interesting concept, but wont it make Ld 10 practically "I don't give a damn-hardly any chance for an effect"?
I set up a new version, this time an aura instead of a part of the shooting attack, what do you think?
Mega_Nob wrote: Hi guys, I had a few ideas for a Tuska house rules set for games with my friends and just wondered what you guys think of them. Any improvements or tweaks would be gratefully accepted
I've always wanted to come up with rules for Tuska and you beat me to it. A few suggestions though?
Perhaps change Tuska's armor to make his 4+ armor save an invulnerable to protect against AP3+ and because you described his armor as buffed 'eavy armor.
Also, since this is the edition of RNG when it comes to psychic powers Warpheads should probably roll a d3 for their psychic power. On a 1 you can choose power 1 or 2, on a 2 power 3 or 4, and on a 3 power 5-6. A bit more control but still a bit random.
Edit: any roll of a double for the psychic test counts as 'Eadbanger.
I had this idea for a special Devastator Sgt. that had a rule which would allow his unit to select another unit if in range to shoot at if they destroyed their first target.
Bearing in mind the limitations on Devastator squads, I don't think it would be OP at all and would make them very interesting late-game
Davylove21 wrote: I had this idea for a special Devastator Sgt. that had a rule which would allow his unit to select another unit if in range to shoot at if they destroyed their first target.
Bearing in mind the limitations on Devastator squads, I don't think it would be OP at all and would make them very interesting late-game
I think it would suit how devastator squads should and would function.
Great Lord Inquisitor Incent - 400pts WS5|BS4|S3|T4|I5|W3|A4|Ld10|Sv3+3++
Wargear: Power armour, Storm shield, Warphand (A large carved staff machined from the trunk of an ancient magical tree. The end is tipped with various metals and shaped spikes which Incent has mastered to use efficiently in combat. It is a versatile weapon, but not only so. It is also used as a Psychic connector to tune into the warp and create white-bright beads of energy which have various uses to the Lord. Allows Incent to use a maximum of 3 powers per turn. The same power can be generated more than once in the same turn. In addition, it is treated as a Power Lance in CC.)
Force hailstorm - Focussed witchfire,24"|S4|AP4|Rapid fire
Great Volt Charge - Witchfire,Large Blast*|S4|AP4|Heavy 1 . *Large blast: This attack is essentially Template, however it uses the Large Blast Marker in place of the standard 'Template weapon' Template. Place the marker so that its edge is in base contact with that of the models. All other models under the template suffer the equivilent hit as per template rules.
Overwatching Wrath - Blessing that targets the Psyker. The Psyker gains an Overwatched Counter. An Overwatched Counter grants a single extra attack in the assault phase: If the possessing model is the attacker, the attacks are resolved at I10 and Strength 5. They hit automatically, roll to wound normally. If the possessing model is the defender, the attacks are resolved during Overwatch. They hit automatically, roll to wound normally. These are resolved at S6. There is no limit to the amount of Overwatched Counters that can be held on a single model. As soon as a charge is declared, at the appropriate time all of the Counters are used at the same time generating the equal number of attacks.
Generate any 3 others from Pyromancy, divination, telekikesis or telepathy
I have not made an entire profile for the character, but I have made a special weapon for my Big Mek Smokey da Burna. I call it Mork's Stogie.
Mork's Stogie: Smokey's special burna was made to use anything remotely flammable as fuel, and this usually results in it belching smoke like a tire fire, likely because shredded tires are probably one of the ingredients. Smokey gets a 5+ cover save from this piece of wargear.
Blacksails wrote: Lt. Tweek, is that character for apoc only? Or is it actually intended for normal 40k games.
Either way, ML6 is far beyond the realm of absurd.
An inquisitor should never be more than ML3. Even that's a stretch.
The Primarchs are meant for normal 40k. Yeah, "your points in lords of war may not be more than 1/4 of your total army" Horus can be used in any 2000+ point game.
That said if he isn't a particularly powerful alpha psyker mastery 6 is absurd.
Blacksails wrote: Lt. Tweek, is that character for apoc only? Or is it actually intended for normal 40k games.
Either way, ML6 is far beyond the realm of absurd.
An inquisitor should never be more than ML3. Even that's a stretch.
The Primarchs are meant for normal 40k. Yeah, "your points in lords of war may not be more than 1/4 of your total army" Horus can be used in any 2000+ point game.
That said if he isn't a particularly powerful alpha psyker mastery 6 is absurd.
Well, he's a stupid powerful psyker, and there's nothing to indicate he's a 30k character either.
So really, we\re just left with a character who suffers from a lot of the flaws most people have when making a custom character; things like crazy over the top fluff and rules, absurdly broken special rules, and a general tendency to make them as resilient as possible for no real reason other than the desire to have an indestructible character.
I had a suspicion ML6 was marginally insane, this is confirmation I don't play apoc, so it's intended for standard games. However, as I understand these kind of characters are much better suited for apoc games, and characters can even be invented?
I like the his unique powers (afterall, they're mine) but they are a little restricting on their own. How about making them a D3 chart, and giving him ML2 or 3 with the option to roll on standard diciplines and his own? That would also decrease his cost to 260-300 points (hows the costing?)
This uncanny sorcerer of Chaos is the source of many disturbing and bizarre rumors, and even said to be the center of an ancient game between Tzeench and Slaanesh, Kiolers is known as "The Fractured" due to his immense power of destruction from one hand, and his seemingly incapability to focus for more then a few moments on the other.
The origin of this unusual mind is said to come from the days of the Horus Heresy itself, as a sorcerer of the thousand sons legion, rumors say that even then he was especially gifted with powers of the mind and could become a major influence if not for his lack of focus, and with the gifts of tzeentch giving him insight into world beyond the mortal realm he was only more distracted then ever. and he also seem to have taken unusual glee at using his powers even for mundane tasks when they were not at all required, as if the mere channeling of the warp gave him please, regardless of the reason for it.
By the time of the Rubric of Ahriman, it is said that not only Kiolers has participated, but he is also suspected to be the reason of the failure, as Slaanesh saw his inattentive nature and his addiction to the warp and saw it as an opportunity to mess with another legion.
As slaanesh granted his blessing to the unsuspecting Kiolers in the middle of the complicated casting, the sudden surge of information flowing into his mind became too much to handle, and he lost the little focus he had on the Rubric, with disastrous results.
From that day on, Kiolers was forced into a life of violence, forever seeking destruction in hopes of feeding his addiction on one hand, and silencing the inescapable noise of knowledge flowing from the minds of all living things, in false hopes to one day manage to regain enough focus to finish his part of the Rubric spell, and fix the horrid fate of his legion.
But those are all just rumors and legends, even chaos cannot be that self-conflicted. can it?
Type: Infantry (independent character)
Composition: 1 (unique)
WS5 BS4 S4 T4 W2 I5 A2 Ld10 Sv3+
Wargear: Power armor, Bolt pistol, Lightning Claw, frag grenades, Krak grenades, Sigil of corruption, Mark of Tzeentch, Mark of Slaanesh (in profile)
Psyker: Kiolers knows all powers from Pyromancy, Telepathy, Slaanesh and Tzeentch disciplines. (See Forgetful Genius)
Divided Loyalty:Under the influence of two gods, Kiolers fails to fully dedicate himself to either one, and often finds himself leading only a handful of followers from each faith In a primary detachment that includes Kiolers, a single unit of Noise Marines and a single unit of Thousand Sons may be taken as Troops instead of Elites.
Forgetful Genius:With the influence of Tzeentch giving him insight into the minds of the surrounding and the structure of the universe, under the heightening of senses granted by Slaanesh the flow of information becomes too much for any mind to handle, as such Kiolers holds infinite knowledge, yet can never focus himself on any one fact, leaving his mind, and by such his psyker powers in disarray. Each of Kiolers' psyker powers may only be cast once per game (whether successfully used or fails, they may not be used again), nor may Kiolers cast two powers of the same discipline in a single turn.
Undeniable Presence: Deny the Witch rolls taken against psyker powers cast by Kiolers' are made with a+1 penalty to the roll.
Well, this is my take on a unique chaos sorcerer. what do you think?
This is something that has been spinning around in my mind for a very long time. Sort of the ultimate evolution of the Trygon Prime.
The World Scourge - 260 Points
WS:6 BS:3 S:6 T:6 W:6 I:5 A:6 LD:10 SV:2+
Force Org Slot: Heavy Support
Unit Type: Monstrous Creature (character)
Weapons and Biomorphs:
Bio-Lightning
Armoured Shell
Scything Talons (2 Sets)
Special Rules:
Alpha of Hive Fleet: Legion
Deep Strike
Fear
Fleet
It Will Not Die
Psyker Level 1
Subterrannean Assault
Shadow in the Warp
Synapse Creature
Psychic Powers:
The World Scourge can choose from any power available to Hive Tyrants
Alpha of Hive Fleet: Legion:
If your list does not include a Hive Tyrant or The Swarmlord, You may take The World Scourge as an HQ Choice instead of Heavy Support and it can be joined by 1 Tyrant Guard.
Cunning of the Hive Mind (25 point upgrade): When The World scourge is unleashed by the Hive Mind, the ageless entity draws upon its eternity of warfare to imbue The World Scourge with the tactical
knowledge it deems necessary to defeat the particular enemy they are engaged with. Choose one of the following abilities:
-Take Back The Skies: At the beginning of the Shooting Phase, The World Scourge and one friendly unit within 12" can choose to use Skyfire for the turn. This cannot be used for Witchfire powers.
-Vanguard of the Assault: If you choose to Deep Strike The World Scourge, he automatically arrives turn 2. Immediately after The World Scourge arrives, 1 other unit that arrives from reserve turn 2 may arrive using the Subterrannean Assault rules. Each subsequent turn, up to 2 units arriving from reserve may do so via Subterrannean Assault. Any unit arriving from reserve this way gains Stealth until the beginning of your next turn.
-Hail of Bugs (yeah, I know, but I wracked my brain for a long time and really couldn't some up with a good name for this): At the beginning of the shooting phase designate 2 friendly units within 12", those units can either add 12" to the range of their guns, or increase the AP value of their guns by 1. This ability does not affect psychic powers.
Bio-Lightning - The ultimate refinement of the Trygon Prime's Cluster Spines, The World Scourge can release a torrent of bio-electrcity that can leave opponents as little more than smoking husks. The World Scourge can choose to fire Bio-Lightning using one of the following profiles:
R:T S:6 AP:- Assault 1, Torrent, Rending
R:48" S:8 AP:2 Assault 2, Twin-Linked
Edit: Fixed the formatting issues that I didn't notice when I copy/pasted
Kroot mercenary leader, was once a great battle brother of O'Shovah. After returning to his home world of Pech with his most trusted squad of mercenaries he recieves information about the Tau Empire turning their back on his old comrade. Although he had returned to retire with his well earned riches, the information he heard troubled him so much he wanted to set out and find his old friend and find out what was going on. Had his exile been justified? Had O'Shovah shunned the greater good and become a danger to the rest of the galaxy? His best mercenaries in tow, he travelled out with the next Tau Cadre he could find in the hopes of solving this riddle.
WS5 BS4 S3 T4 W3 I4 A3 Ld9 Sv4++
Wargear: Wrath of Pech, Shield Generator, Stealth Cloak
Wrath of Pech: This is a Kroot Rifle with sniper rounds but Mahg'Tur has coated the combat blades in the deadly toxins he's found on his journeys, thus, his close combat attacks are poisoned(3+).
Shield Generator: Able to afford the best wargear the Tau can offer, he procured this to endure his journey.
Stealth Cloak: Mahg'Tur can add +1 to all cover saves, this can stack with his Stealth(forests) special rule, giving him a +2 cover modifier in forest areas.
Special Rules: Stealth (Forests), Infiltrate, Elite Mercenaries.
Elite Mercenaries: Mahg'Tur can start the game attached to a unit of Kroot mercenaries, this unit must be changed to an elite unit and thus takes up an Elite slot in your primary detachment. The unit has a 4+ armour save, Sniper Rounds and the following special rule:
Eaters of the dead: When this unit wipes out a non vehicle enemy unit in close combat roll a D6 and consult the table below:
1 - Famished: The unit may not make a consolidate move as they become too focussed on feasting on the flesh of the fallen.
2-3 - Snack: The unit can consolidate but only D3" as they pause to have a quick snack on the fallen. In addition, Any multi-wound Kroot in the unit may regain a lost wound.
4 - Fine: Either not hungry or not wanting to touch the foul meat of the enemy they may move and consolidate as normal.
5-6 - Invigorating meal: Be it the the miraculous effect of the enemies' flesh or their thirst for more bloodshed, the unit may not make a consolidate move but gain the Feel No Pain rule until the end of their next turn, this may mean they wipe out another unit and get a further effect of this table as well as the one about to ware off.
Mega_Nob wrote: Eaters of the dead: When this unit wipes out a non vehicle enemy unit in close combat roll a D6 and consult the table below:
1 - Famished: The unit may not make a consolidate move as they become too focussed on feasting on the flesh of the fallen.
2-3 - Snack: The unit can consolidate but only D3" as they pause to have a quick snack on the fallen. In addition, Any multi-wound Kroot in the unit may regain a lost wound.
4 - Fine: Either not hungry or not wanting to touch the foul meat of the enemy they may move and consolidate as normal.
5-6 - Invigorating meal: Be it the the miraculous effect of the enemies' flesh or their thirst for more bloodshed, the unit may not make a consolidate move but gain the Feel No Pain rule until the end of their next turn, this may mean they wipe out another unit and get a further effect of this table as well as the one about to ware off.
Cool rules, reminds me of Kroot from DoW. However, you could have elaborated on his connection to Farsight more in his rules. Working with Farsight tends to make people like close-up actions be it shooting or assaulting.
Ghost webbing: The rangers exchange standard issue armour for stealth and reliance on not being seen. They still benefit from ultra-light protection, providing a 6+ Sv. However, they are granted a 4+ cover save as long as they are not already in combat or making an assault. If the Rangers fired their Black Needles at an enemy unit, they are only granted a 5+ cover save from any ranged attacks made by that targeted enemy unit, until the next turn. If the unit Ran, they are only granted a 5+ cover save. A unit which fired its Force Arrows in the previous turn cannot make any cover saves from Ghost webbing.
Force Compound bow: An advanced bow supplied with deadly arrows named Black Needles: 18"|S2|AP-|Assault 1, Poisoned (5+), Rending Alternatively, a user can attempt to send a basic psychic attack with the weapon. This is a favoured attack due to the low understanding of Psychic energy required contrasted with the exceptional power of the blast. However, power comes with drawbacks, and the inexperience of most users can be dangerous, even fatal. Force arrows are always fired at BS3 24"|S5|AP4|Heavy 1, Gets Hot, Rending
Sheathed Darkness: A shortsword, presented to each Ranger in their joining ceremony. Can be used with one of two techniques; a horizontal slash resolved at User|AP3|Melee, or a lunging Thrust resolved at S+2|AP-|Melee. You must declare at the start of combat which technique will be used. All of the models in the unit must make the same type of attack in each round
Mega_Nob wrote: Eaters of the dead: When this unit wipes out a non vehicle enemy unit in close combat roll a D6 and consult the table below:
1 - Famished: The unit may not make a consolidate move as they become too focussed on feasting on the flesh of the fallen.
2-3 - Snack: The unit can consolidate but only D3" as they pause to have a quick snack on the fallen. In addition, Any multi-wound Kroot in the unit may regain a lost wound.
4 - Fine: Either not hungry or not wanting to touch the foul meat of the enemy they may move and consolidate as normal.
5-6 - Invigorating meal: Be it the the miraculous effect of the enemies' flesh or their thirst for more bloodshed, the unit may not make a consolidate move but gain the Feel No Pain rule until the end of their next turn, this may mean they wipe out another unit and get a further effect of this table as well as the one about to ware off.
Cool rules, reminds me of Kroot from DoW. However, you could have elaborated on his connection to Farsight more in his rules. Working with Farsight tends to make people like close-up actions be it shooting or assaulting.
Thanks, I did want to try get some of the old Kroot Cannibal rules in there but make them kind of a double edged sword so to speak. I was going to add more about how he complimented Farsights force by being his ambusher and sneaking up and behind enemy forces, kind of the anvil to O'Shovahs hammer. I'll have to think of something interesting.
Been a while since I was on but saw something that gave me inspiration
Leader of the Damned
C:SMHQ WS/6 BS/5 S/4 T/4 W/3 I/5 A/3 Ld/10 Sv 3+/3++ Pts: 190
Wargear
Blade of Souls (S: User, AP3, Soul Rend (if a model suffers an unsaved wound they must take a toughness test on 2d6 pick the highest, and if failed take an extra wound.)
Bolt Pistol
Frag&Krak grenades
Power Armor
Combi-meltagun
Special Rules:
Fearless, Aid Unlooked For, Unyielding Specters, Feel No Pain (5+), Mysterious Disappearance, Fear, Slow and Purposeful, Silent Leader
Silent Leader: May never be the Warlord.
Mysterious Disappearance: At the end of turn 6 all models with the "Aid Unlooked For" Special Rule are removed from the table. Furthermore, they never count as a killpoint)
What does the web think? I really like the LotD and thought this would be a good HQ unit for them, tried to make him balanced as I could.
Edited some rules and mistakes
Not only does he have the absurdly powerful weapon standard for characters, but what he does is completely obliterate the balance of a game.
With re-rollable deep strike, what you have here is a guy who can almost guaranteed remove objectives from your opponent without any means of counter. And furthermore, you can easily just teleport them away, since none of your guys count for anything.
Not only does he have the absurdly powerful weapon standard for characters, but what he does is completely obliterate the balance of a game.
With re-rollable deep strike, what you have here is a guy who can almost guaranteed remove objectives from your opponent without any means of counter. And furthermore, you can easily just teleport them away, since none of your guys count for anything.
fair enough. Fixing the weapon, fixing the disappearance, and now whats the consensus? Also meant the sword to be AP3 not 2, sorry about that
iron hands captain ructhan. i felt bas iron hands had no specail/named character, so i wanted to make one.
ructhan is one of the iron hands longest living members. he has been in numerous campaings, and countless battles. he has taking many many wounds, and has had over the years nearly all of his body replaced with cybonics. he is extremly resilent to attacks, as he has had his cybonics made from the strongest metals his tech marines would allow. after one campain in which his bolter was destroyed by an Eldar faseer, he requisitioned a request for a new appendige to the tech marines. the master of the forge himself built it for ructhan. it is a servo arm of sorts, a metal arm that extends from his upper right shoulder to carry an extra weapon of his choice, depending on the enemy. when in battle, ructhan goes with his personel cammand squad, the eternals. the members of this cammand squad have proven there worth in battle, and strategy, and have nearly as much bionic enhcancements as ructhan. Ructhans personal transport is a landraider cruader, one whos machine spirit is especially strong, even for the iron hands.
ructhan: 200 points
]wsbs s t w i a ldsv 6 5 4 5 3 5 3 10 2+
wargear:
the iron fist.
ructhan had his intire left fist removed, and in place had the chapters techamrines add a powerfist, one thats built into his arm. S X2, AP 2, special rules: mellee, slow, but not slowest. this power fist strikes at I 2, instaed of the usual 1.
storm bolter
iron halo
frag and krak grenades.
artificer armor
Iron prevails when flesh fails!
ructhan is a firm believer in fleshs wekaness. his It will not die roll is made on a 4+, and his FNP is made on a 5+. whenever ructhan is wounded by a weapon that is s 10, he makes a special rule on a 5+. if passed, the wepons shot will not ID him.
arm of retrebution.
ructhan has a addition metal arm. this grants him and additional attack in CC at s5 at regular iniative. this may be replaced for an boltegun for free. if so, he has no extra close combat bonus. (note this lets him shoot 2 weapons in the shooting phase.)
Special rules; chapter tatics, iron hands.
Iron prevails when flesh fails!
ructhan is a firm believer in fleshs wekaness. his It will not die roll is made on a 4+, and his FNP is made on a 5+. whenever ructhan is wounded by a weapon that is s 10, he makes a special roll on a 5+. if passed, the wepons shot will not ID him.
the Eternals.
you may upgrade one cammand squad to the Eternals for 50 points. they may not ride space marine bikes. these eternals have a 4+ feel no pain roll, and artificer armor. they may not be joined b anyother idependent character but ructhan. they may take a razorback, rhino, droppod, or a land raider cruader. (if they take the land raider, they must start the game in it, along with ructhan.)
So it's a 4+ invuln against instaddeath? Would do nothing if you had only one wound left, but if it was your first wound from a Str10 weapon, and you failed the armour save, you would still have the chance to not die.
Thatguyhsagun wrote: Been a while since I was on but saw something that gave me inspiration
Leader of the Damned
C:SMHQ WS/6 BS/5 S/4 T/4 W/3 I/5 A/3 Ld/10 Sv 3+/3++ Pts: 190
Wargear
Blade of Souls (S: User, AP3, Soul Rend (if a model suffers an unsaved wound they must take a toughness test on 2d6 pick the highest, and if failed take an extra wound.)
Bolt Pistol
Frag&Krak grenades
Power Armor
Combi-meltagun
Special Rules:
Fearless, Aid Unlooked For, Unyielding Specters, Feel No Pain (5+), Mysterious Disappearance, Fear, Slow and Purposeful, Silent Leader
Silent Leader: May never be the Warlord.
Mysterious Disappearance: At the end of turn 6 all models with the "Aid Unlooked For" Special Rule are removed from the table. Furthermore, they never count as a killpoint)
What does the web think? I really like the LotD and thought this would be a good HQ unit for them, tried to make him balanced as I could.
Edited some rules and mistakes
legion of the damned don't actually have a 3+ armour save. They have one save and that's the 3++
BaconUprising wrote: Ah haven't read it, I had assumed they would have been the same as a 3+ and a 3++ is just crazy!
Yes, LotD received a pretty nice buff in the new codex. More weapon options, 3+ and 3++, and all of their weapons ignore cover. And they still re-roll their deep strike scatter.
EW is meant for the best marines/xenos/whatever in their primes in terms of strength. It is thus expensive.
The problem is, the drop off is quite extreme. A CM with or without EW is likely a warrior hundreds of years old capable of felling enemies by the armyful.
But when the latter runs into a powerfist, he explodes, while the former is, at most, mildly injured.
Having some sort of middle ground would be nice. I mean, how many times has a CM seen powerfists and powerklaws on the battlefield. Do they have to bail every time they see one? Of course not, they charge in, and usually win. Still, they're not invincible, and a particularly strong foe can still beat them. Having something like a 4+ EW roll demonstrates that pretty well I think. Fail your armor save, get a 4+ to not explode.
BaconUprising wrote: Ah haven't read it, I had assumed they would have been the same as a 3+ and a 3++ is just crazy!
Yes, LotD received a pretty nice buff in the new codex. More weapon options, 3+ and 3++, and all of their weapons ignore cover. And they still re-roll their deep strike scatter.
BaconUprising wrote: Ah haven't read it, I had assumed they would have been the same as a 3+ and a 3++ is just crazy!
Yes, LotD received a pretty nice buff in the new codex. More weapon options, 3+ and 3++, and all of their weapons ignore cover. And they still re-roll their deep strike scatter.
EW is meant for the best marines/xenos/whatever in their primes in terms of strength. It is thus expensive.
The problem is, the drop off is quite extreme. A CM with or without EW is likely a warrior hundreds of years old capable of felling enemies by the armyful.
But when the latter runs into a powerfist, he explodes, while the former is, at most, mildly injured.
Having some sort of middle ground would be nice. I mean, how many times has a CM seen powerfists and powerklaws on the battlefield. Do they have to bail every time they see one? Of course not, they charge in, and usually win. Still, they're not invincible, and a particularly strong foe can still beat them. Having something like a 4+ EW roll demonstrates that pretty well I think. Fail your armor save, get a 4+ to not explode.
I'd support this being added to the main rules especially since Tau don't have any Eternal Warriors to begin with.
Heh - how about something like:
Amaranthine: On a roll of a 5+ the model may ignore the effects of Instant Death caused by an unsaved wound.
10pt upgrade.
Ovion wrote: Heh - how about something like:
Amaranthine: On a roll of a 5+ the model may ignore the effects of Instant Death caused by an unsaved wound.
10pt upgrade.
And the great rule writer cometh. Sounds good. However, I'm unsure for the 10pt cost. Ability to ignore ID is dependent on Toughness. T3 Farseer is going to have to take a lot more flak than a T6 Nurgle biker.
Ovion wrote: Heh - how about something like:
Amaranthine: On a roll of a 5+ the model may ignore the effects of Instant Death caused by an unsaved wound.
10pt upgrade.
And the great rule writer cometh. Sounds good. However, I'm unsure for the 10pt cost. Ability to ignore ID is dependent on Toughness. T3 Farseer is going to have to take a lot more flak than a T6 Nurgle biker.
Yeah, but I haven't had time to work on the 'non-linear' system yet. (CRAZY busy month)
On the 'linear' system, Eternal Warrior is 35pts, this being 1/3 as effective, making it 11.6pts, so I just rounded down to 10 for ease, though you could round it up to 12.
Then you can have something like 'Amaranthine (4+)' which is in turn worth 16-18pts
Ovion wrote: Heh - how about something like:
Amaranthine: On a roll of a 5+ the model may ignore the effects of Instant Death caused by an unsaved wound.
10pt upgrade.
And the great rule writer cometh. Sounds good. However, I'm unsure for the 10pt cost. Ability to ignore ID is dependent on Toughness. T3 Farseer is going to have to take a lot more flak than a T6 Nurgle biker.
Yeah, but I haven't had time to work on the 'non-linear' system yet. (CRAZY busy month)
On the 'linear' system, Eternal Warrior is 35pts, this being 1/3 as effective, making it 11.6pts, so I just rounded down to 10 for ease, though you could round it up to 12.
Then you can have something like 'Amaranthine (4+)' which is in turn worth 16-18pts
Id take a 4+ EW roll for 18 pts. Itd be good without being broken. Personally I thing EW should never be set in stone, even Calgar and Lydsander have weaknesses. Both being helmetless, a stray lascannon through the brain will take them down as an example.
i made the roll on my iron arms captain a roll on 5+ he ignores the ID form s 10 weapons. this is because a force sword will still suck the soul out of him, and his extra mechanics cant stop that. it can though however, hopefully block off the double strength ID.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ninjafiredragon wrote: iron hands captain ructhan. i felt bas iron hands had no specail/named character, so i wanted to make one.
ructhan is one of the iron hands longest living members. he has been in numerous campaings, and countless battles. he has taking many many wounds, and has had over the years nearly all of his body replaced with cybonics. he is extremly resilent to attacks, as he has had his cybonics made from the strongest metals his tech marines would allow. after one campain in which his bolter was destroyed by an Eldar faseer, he requisitioned a request for a new appendige to the tech marines. the master of the forge himself built it for ructhan. it is a servo arm of sorts, a metal arm that extends from his upper right shoulder to carry an extra weapon of his choice, depending on the enemy. when in battle, ructhan goes with his personel cammand squad, the eternals. the members of this cammand squad have proven there worth in battle, and strategy, and have nearly as much bionic enhcancements as ructhan. Ructhans personal transport is a landraider cruader, one whos machine spirit is especially strong, even for the iron hands.
ructhan: 200 points
]wsbs s t w i a ldsv 6 5 4 5 3 5 3 10 2+
wargear:
the iron fist.
ructhan had his intire left fist removed, and in place had the chapters techamrines add a powerfist, one thats built into his arm. S X2, AP 2, special rules: mellee, slow, but not slowest. this power fist strikes at I 2, instaed of the usual 1.
storm bolter
iron halo
frag and krak grenades.
artificer armor
Iron prevails when flesh fails!
ructhan is a firm believer in fleshs wekaness. his It will not die roll is made on a 4+, and his FNP is made on a 5+. whenever ructhan is wounded by a weapon that is s 10, he makes a special rule on a 5+. if passed, the wepons shot will not ID him.
arm of retrebution.
ructhan has a addition metal arm. this grants him and additional attack in CC at s5 at regular iniative. this may be replaced for an boltegun for free. if so, he has no extra close combat bonus. (note this lets him shoot 2 weapons in the shooting phase.)
Special rules; chapter tatics, iron hands.
Iron prevails when flesh fails!
ructhan is a firm believer in fleshs wekaness. his It will not die roll is made on a 4+, and his FNP is made on a 5+. whenever ructhan is wounded by a weapon that is s 10, he makes a special roll on a 5+. if passed, the wepons shot will not ID him.
the Eternals.
you may upgrade one cammand squad to the Eternals for 50 points. they may not ride space marine bikes. these eternals have a 4+ feel no pain roll, and artificer armor. they may not be joined b anyother idependent character but ructhan. they may take a razorback, rhino, droppod, or a land raider cruader. (if they take the land raider, they must start the game in it, along with ructhan.)
I was reading the Codex, and I found to my horror that I CANNOT give a chapter master an Assault Cannon. What do you think would be a fair price for one? (Assuming he's wearing termie armor)
Lord Gatlas wrote: I was reading the Codex, and I found to my horror that I CANNOT give a chapter master an Assault Cannon. What do you think would be a fair price for one? (Assuming he's wearing termie armor)
40 seems about right based on the PC for the GKGM.
Lord Gatlas wrote: I was reading the Codex, and I found to my horror that I CANNOT give a chapter master an Assault Cannon. What do you think would be a fair price for one? (Assuming he's wearing termie armor)
40 seems about right based on the PC for the GKGM.
Lord Gatlas wrote: I was reading the Codex, and I found to my horror that I CANNOT give a chapter master an Assault Cannon. What do you think would be a fair price for one? (Assuming he's wearing termie armor)
40 seems about right based on the PC for the GKGM.
Thanks.
Random Grot: "Them 'umies got themselves a boss with some real dakka now!"
Warboss: "Oh really? Wotzit, some sorta double-plinka or sumfin'? Hehe..."*Chugs beer*
Grot: "No boss! It looks like wunna their big an' shooty spinny-deffguns!"
Warboss: *spit take*
ok, so I worked with a friend of mine to even this out and wanted to post the updated version.....I'm really interested in what people think of this:
The World Scourge - 260 Points
WS:6 BS:3 S:6 T:6 W:7 I:5 A:6 LD:10 SV:3+
Force Org Slot: Heavy Support
Unit Type: Monstrous Creature (character)
Weapons and Biomorphs: Bio-Lightning
Bonded Exoskeleton
Scything Talons (2 Sets)
Special Rules:
Alpha of Hive Fleet: Legion
Deep Strike
Fleet
It Will Not Die
Psyker Level 1
Subterrannean Assault
Shadow in the Warp
Synapse Creature
Psychic Powers:
The World Scourge can choose from any power available to Hive Tyrants
Alpha of Hive Fleet: Legion:
If your list does not include a Hive Tyrant or The Swarmlord, You may take The World Scourge as an HQ Choice instead of Heavy Support and it can be joined by 1 Tyrant Guard.
Cunning of the Hive Mind (25 point upgrade): When The World scourge is unleashed by the Hive Mind, the ageless entity draws upon its eternity of warfare to imbue The World Scourge with the tactical knowledge it deems necessary to defeat the particular enemy they are engaged with. Choose one of the following abilities:
-Take Back The Skies: At the beginning of the Shooting Phase, The World Scourge and one friendly unit within 12" can choose to use Skyfire for the turn. This cannot be used for Witchfire powers.
-Vanguard of the Assault: If you choose to Deep Strike The World Scourge, he automatically arrives turn 2. Immediately after The World Scourge arrives, 1 other Infantry or Beast unit may immediately arrive from reserve using the Subterrannean Assault rules. Each subsequent turn, up to 2 Infantry or Beast units arriving from reserve may do so via Subterrannean Assault. Any unit arriving from reserve this way gains Stealth until the beginning of your next turn.
-Hail of Bugs (yeah, I know, but I wracked my brain for a long time and really couldn't some up with a good name for this): At the beginning of the shooting phase choose 1: All friendly units within 6" add 12" to the range of their guns, or all friendly units within 6" increase the AP value of their guns by 1. This ability does not affect psychic powers.
Bio-Lightning - The ultimate refinement of the Trygon Prime's Cluster Spines, The World Scourge can release a torrent of bio-electrcity that can leave opponents as little more than smoking husks. The World Scourge can choose to fire Bio-Lightning using one of the following profiles:
Slaanesh's Messenger
WS5|BS4|S4|T4|W2|I5|A2|Ld9|Sv3+
Replaces Noise Champion in any single Noise Marines unit .. +40pts
Character (unique) - Infantry
Wargear: Power armour, The Piercing (Oversized electric guitar with built in amplifiers and decorated in blood and skulls. Incorporates a Storm Bolter and a CCW with the following profile: S+2|AP2|Melee, Two Handed, Unwieldy
In addition, once per turn, if he didn't move in the previous movement phase, instead of Running or shooting any other weapon, the Messenger can play a Solo of War on his guitar. He plays it automatically, and grants the Furious Charge and Rage special rules to all friendly units within XD6 range, where X is equal to the current game turn. It he plays a Solo of War, he is treated as having fired an Ordnance weapon )
Special rules: Champion of Chaos, Mark of Slaanesh, Fearless, FNP(6+)
Licurgus is both the Champion of his Chapter, and the commander of Asterion Moloc's bodyguard. A stalwart and uncompromising fighter, he, along with the rest of his 30 man unit, were all slain by Lychguard during the boarding of the Necron Tomb Ship Dead Hand at the Battle of Amarah.
110 points
Type: Infantry (character)
Composition: 1 (unique)
WS5 BS5 S4 T4 W2 I5 A3 Ld9 Sv2+
Wargear: Terminator armour, storm shield, master-crafted power axe
Special Rules:
Chapter Traits: All Minotaurs space marines have the Preferred Enemy USR against all space marine codexes with the exception of C:CSM.
The Unbreakable Thirty: This is a unit of 30 terminator veterans that form the bodyguard and spearhead of Asterion Moloc. A special unit consisting of Licurgus and 29 Terminators and/or Assault Terminators may be taken. No Terminator Sergeants or Assault Terminator Sergeants may be taken. This unit is a HQ choice that may only be taken if Asterion Moloc is taken in the same detachment. No Honor Guard units may be taken for Moloc. THis unit does not take up a HQ slot.
Licurgus is both the Champion of his Chapter, and the commander of Asterion Moloc's bodyguard. A stalwart and uncompromising fighter, he, along with the rest of his 30 man unit, were all slain by Lychguard during the boarding of the Necron Tomb Ship Dead Hand at the Battle of Amarah.
110 points
Type: Infantry (character)
Composition: 1 (unique)
WS5 BS5 S4 T4 W2 I5 A3 Ld9 Sv2+
Wargear: Terminator armour, storm shield, master-crafted power axe
Special Rules:
Chapter Traits: All Minotaurs space marines have the Preferred Enemy USR against all space marine codexes with the exception of C:CSM.
The Unbreakable Thirty: This is a unit of 30 terminator veterans that form the bodyguard and spearhead of Asterion Moloc. A special unit consisting of Licurgus and 29 Terminators and/or Assault Terminators may be taken. No Terminator Sergeants or Assault Terminator Sergeants may be taken. This unit is a HQ choice that may only be taken if Asterion Moloc is taken in the same detachment. No Honor Guard units may be taken for Moloc. THis unit does not take up a HQ slot.
Right, costing - first unit under new codex I've done!
Licurgus is both the Champion of his Chapter, and the commander of Asterion Moloc's bodyguard. A stalwart and uncompromising fighter, he, along with the rest of his 30 man unit, were all slain by Lychguard during the boarding of the Necron Tomb Ship Dead Hand at the Battle of Amarah.
110 points
Type: Infantry (character)
Composition: 1 (unique)
WS5 BS5 S4 T4 W2 I5 A3 Ld9 Sv2+
Wargear: Terminator armour, storm shield, master-crafted power axe
Special Rules:
Chapter Traits: All Minotaurs space marines have the Preferred Enemy USR against all space marine codexes with the exception of C:CSM.
The Unbreakable Thirty: This is a unit of 30 terminator veterans that form the bodyguard and spearhead of Asterion Moloc. A special unit consisting of Licurgus and 29 Terminators and/or Assault Terminators may be taken. No Terminator Sergeants or Assault Terminator Sergeants may be taken. This unit is a HQ choice that may only be taken if Asterion Moloc is taken in the same detachment. No Honor Guard units may be taken for Moloc. THis unit does not take up a HQ slot.
Right, costing - first unit under new codex I've done!
So I wasn't far off Might as well upgrade the FW rules to 6th ed
Minotaurs Chapter
All Space Marine units in this detachment gain the Preferred Enemy USR against units from the following codices: C:SM, C:SW, C:GK, C: DA, C:BA, and any FW supplements pertaining to the aforementioned codices.
Chapter Master Asterion Moloc
Type: Infantry (character)
Composition: 1 (unique)
235 points
WS6 BS5 S4 T4 W4 I5 A3 Ld10 Sv2+
Wargear: Terminator armour, storm shield
The Black Spear: Melee: S+2 AP2 Specialist weapon. Ranged: Range 12 S 8 AP2 Assault 1 One Use Only
Special Rules: Independent Character, Orbital Bombardment, Eternal Warrior
Dark Fury: Moloc and any unit he joins count as having assault grenades
Master of the Minotaurs: Moloc can only be taken in a Minotaurs detachment. He MUST be the Warlord. As a Chapter Master, he may select an Honor Guard unit.
Jealous and Paranoid: No other Chapter Masters or named characters may be taken in the same army.
Warlord Trait: Legendary FIghter (+1 VP for each character slain in a challenge)
CalasTyphon216 wrote: Minotaurs Chapter
All Space Marine units in this detachment gain the Preferred Enemy USR against units from the following codices: C:SM, C:SW, C:GK, C: DA, C:BA, and any FW supplements pertaining to the aforementioned codices.
This would just be Prefered Enemy (Space Marines).
CalasTyphon216 wrote: Minotaurs Chapter
All Space Marine units in this detachment gain the Preferred Enemy USR against units from the following codices: C:SM, C:SW, C:GK, C: DA, C:BA, and any FW supplements pertaining to the aforementioned codices.
This would just be Prefered Enemy (Space Marines).
I thought I'd clarify, since it doesn't apply to chaos-based ones
Hades Longlas: a specially made Longlas rifle that uses heavily modified beam focus optics to increase power and render the beam invisible to the naked eye.
Range: 36” S:3 Ap:6 Type: Rapid Fire, Sniper
Special Rules: Infiltrate, scout, shrouded, Desperate Stand, Patient Hunter
Desperate Stand: when an enemy declares a charge against a Company Marksman he may use his full Ballistics Skill to Overwatch, and each successful wound (regardless of armour saves) grants the CM another shot.
Patient Hunter: Hadian snipers are trained to observe their opponents, sometimes for days, before striking. If a unit with this rule does not shoot, move or assault for a turn then he gains +2 BS on the next turn.
Supreme Commander Adamas Velen of the Iron Hearts (working Chapter title) WS6 BS5 S4 T4 W3 I5 A3 LD10 SV2+
Wargear: - The Burning Blade (as per C:SM)
- The Eternity Shield (as per C:SM)
- Iron Warplate (Tartaros Terminator Armour with Inviolate Armour rule from HH:M, which reduces the Strength of all shooting attacks made against him by -1)
Special Rules: - Independent Character
- ATSKNF - Chapter Tactics (Iron Hands)
BS6-8 on a guardsman?! Fluffwise, this seems stupid as a Space Marine Chapter Master, who has been fighting the enemy's of the Emperor for hundreds of years, loss a shooting match with a guardsman who has a life expectancy of 15 hours?! I'd personally make him BS5 and change Paitoent Hunter to If he hasn't moved by the first shot he makes, he receives +2 BS. Instead of every other turn.
Sgt_Smudge wrote: BS6-8 on a guardsman?! Fluffwise, this seems stupid as a Space Marine Chapter Master, who has been fighting the enemy's of the Emperor for hundreds of years, loss a shooting match with a guardsman who has a life expectancy of 15 hours?! I'd personally make him BS5 and change Paitoent Hunter to If he hasn't moved by the first shot he makes, he receives +2 BS. Instead of every other turn.
Psssht BS6 is the BS of a lord of change! Also overwatch on BS6 with no drawbacks O.o that's 2+ re-rolling for 6 that for every hit gives an extra roll and possibly if not shot becomes an overwatch 8 becoming a 2+ overwatch re-rolling 4+
mad_eddy_13 wrote: I was looking at a sniper character for my IG (The Hades 501st) and wrote out some stats, C&C is great and I would love to hear peoples opinions.
Hades Longlas: a specially made Longlas rifle that uses heavily modified beam focus optics to increase power and render the beam invisible to the naked eye.
Range: 36” S:3 Ap:6 Type: Rapid Fire, Sniper
Special Rules: Infiltrate, scout, shrouded, Desperate Stand, Patient Hunter
Desperate Stand: when an enemy declares a charge against a Company Marksman he may use his full Ballistics Skill to Overwatch, and each successful wound (regardless of armour saves) grants the CM another shot.
Patient Hunter: Hadian snipers are trained to observe their opponents, sometimes for days, before striking. If a unit with this rule does not shoot, move or assault for a turn then he gains +2 BS on the next turn.
First up - straight costing:
Spoiler:
Base - Veteran 7
+2BS +20
+1W +10
+1Ld +5
Hades Long Las +10
Camo Cloak +10
Infiltrate +10
Scout +10
Shrouded +10
Desperate Stand:
Overwatch at full BS (at5pts per +1BS over the first during Overwatch) +25
Extra shot on wound +10
Patient Hunter +10
Total: 137 > round to 140 for neatness.
And now a review:
First, the absolute highest BS in the Guard codex is 5, having 6 would be fine if you can give a reason for it, but being it's still a regular human, I think 5 would be more than enough.
The Long-Las is fine, it just wants to be Str-X instead of Str-3, as the Sniper Rule bypasses the strength of a weapon entirely.
Desperate stand... well, that's just a bit silly to be honest, and doesn't really make that much sense.
I realise the guy is on his own, etc, but it just doesn't make sense.
What would however, and be a bit more 'cinematic', is if you gave him a Laspistol, and the rule was 'may fire the Laspistol and Long-Las in overwatch at BS2'
Patient Hunter makes absolutely zero sense - each Game Turn is a matter of moments on the game board (1" working out to roughly 6 feet, the time it took me to casually stroll 36ft was 15seconds, so I'd hazard to say that each turn represents roughly 30-40 seconds of the battle).
Also, all snipers are trained to be able to wait for days for that perfect shot.
Making it +1BS (with BS5) will mean you get to reroll misses and hit on a 6, this is fine I think, and would make sense with bracing himself and taking better aim, in that brief time allowed.
Also... why 2W?
At BS5, with Laspistol, Overwatch (with both guns) at BS2 and +1BS for not moving, it'd reduce the points to about 105, maybe even 100.
Seems fine overall to be perfectly honest. Nothing too outrageous, and I quite like the Heart Taker rule. I don't even mind Eternal Warrrior on it that much, as it sorta fits the Azteccyness... plus you still have to pay the EW tax.
I'm dubious on the giving everything Poisoned thing... basically giving the entire army rerolls to wound against T1-4 in close combat (or up to T9 with some weapons).
NeoAigaion wrote:Supreme Commander Adamas Velen of the Iron Hearts (working Chapter title)
Spoiler:
WS6 BS5 S4 T4 W3 I5 A3 LD10 SV2+
Wargear: - The Burning Blade (as per C:SM) - The Eternity Shield (as per C:SM) - Iron Warplate (Tartaros Terminator Armour with Inviolate Armour rule from HH:M, which reduces the Strength of all shooting attacks made against him by -1)
Special Rules: - Independent Character - ATSKNF - Chapter Tactics (Iron Hands)
Points estimated would be appreciated.
Seems fairly straightforward overall: What does Tartaros Termi Armour do? Will assume it's straight Termi Armour for now, and go from there. Costing:
Helios Demosthenes, Captain of the 2nd Company, Minotaurs Chapter
Helios Demosthenes is one of the most vaunted stars of the Minotaurs. A member of Asterion Moloc's inner circle, he has a reputation as an intuitive tactician, far-sighted strategist, and a vicious and merciless duelist. Widely regarded as the man most likely to succeed Moloc should he finally fall, he has led his company to victory after victory. Most recently, he participated in the destruction of the traitorous Night Reapers chapter, personally besting their chapter master in single combat.
260 points
Type: Infantry (character)
Composition: 1 (unique)
WS7 BS5 S4 T4 W3 I6 A4 Ld10 Sv2+
Wargear: Artificer armour, Iron halo, frag and krak grenades
Archaeotech pistol: A rare relic of the Horus Heresy. Range 18 S6 AP2 Pistol Specialist Weapon Get's Hot
Sunfury: This is a power sabre with a rare, powerful force field generator, allowing it to be far more overcharged than a regular power sword. When it comes in contact with foes it discharges the power field much in the same way as a thunder hammer, breaking both armor and flesh. Melee S+2 AP2 Blind Concussive
Special Rules: Independent Character, Minotaurs Chapter
Slayer of Champions: Demosthenes must issue and accept all challenges, even if there is another character in the same unit. He gains +1 to hit and +1 to wound in all challenges.
Warlord Trait: Demonsthenes' controlling player seizes the initiative on a 4+
CalasTyphon216 wrote: Helios Demosthenes, Captain of the 2nd Company, Minotaurs Chapter
Helios Demosthenes is one of the most vaunted stars of the Minotaurs. A member of Asterion Moloc's inner circle, he has a reputation as an intuitive tactician, far-sighted strategist, and a vicious and merciless duelist. Widely regarded as the man most likely to succeed Moloc should he finally fall, he has led his company to victory after victory. Most recently, he participated in the destruction of the traitorous Night Reapers chapter, personally besting their chapter master in single combat.
260 points
Type: Infantry (character)
Composition: 1 (unique)
WS7 BS5 S4 T4 W3 I6 A4 Ld10 Sv2+
Wargear: Artificer armour, Iron halo, frag and krak grenades
Archaeotech pistol: A rare relic of the Horus Heresy. Range 18 S6 AP2 Pistol Sniper Get's Hot
Sunfury: This is a power sabre with a rare, powerful force field generator, allowing it to be far more overcharged than a regular power sword. When it comes in contact with foes it discharges the power field much in the same way as a thunder hammer, breaking both armor and flesh. Melee S+2 AP2 Blind Concussive
Special Rules: Independent Character, Minotaurs Chapter
Slayer of Champions: Demosthenes must issue and accept all challenges, even if there is another character in the same unit. He gains +1 to hit and +1 to wound in all challenges.
Warlord Trait: Demonsthenes' controlling player seizes the initiative on a 4+
I would like to point out (yet again - why do people keep doing this!), that the Sniper Rule cancels out the Strength of a weapon, which is why it is always StrX.
A Sniper weapon will always wound on a 4+, and when shooting at Vehicles, it is always treated as Str3.
CalasTyphon216 wrote: Helios Demosthenes, Captain of the 2nd Company, Minotaurs Chapter
Helios Demosthenes is one of the most vaunted stars of the Minotaurs. A member of Asterion Moloc's inner circle, he has a reputation as an intuitive tactician, far-sighted strategist, and a vicious and merciless duelist. Widely regarded as the man most likely to succeed Moloc should he finally fall, he has led his company to victory after victory. Most recently, he participated in the destruction of the traitorous Night Reapers chapter, personally besting their chapter master in single combat.
260 points
Type: Infantry (character)
Composition: 1 (unique)
WS7 BS5 S4 T4 W3 I6 A4 Ld10 Sv2+
Wargear: Artificer armour, Iron halo, frag and krak grenades
Archaeotech pistol: A rare relic of the Horus Heresy. Range 18 S6 AP2 Pistol Sniper Get's Hot
Sunfury: This is a power sabre with a rare, powerful force field generator, allowing it to be far more overcharged than a regular power sword. When it comes in contact with foes it discharges the power field much in the same way as a thunder hammer, breaking both armor and flesh. Melee S+2 AP2 Blind Concussive
Special Rules: Independent Character, Minotaurs Chapter
Slayer of Champions: Demosthenes must issue and accept all challenges, even if there is another character in the same unit. He gains +1 to hit and +1 to wound in all challenges.
Warlord Trait: Demonsthenes' controlling player seizes the initiative on a 4+
I would like to point out (yet again - why do people keep doing this!), that the Sniper Rule cancels out the Strength of a weapon, which is why it is always StrX. A Sniper weapon will always wound on a 4+, and when shooting at Vehicles, it is always treated as Str3.
Gahh typo thats meant to be Specialist Weapon lol, don't know why I typed sniper instead I think he should be costed more because of the Minotaurs Chapter rules, with Preferred Enemy in a challenge I'd be hitting on 2s with rerolls and wounding on 2s with rerolls against marines
Hades Longlas: a specially made Longlas rifle that uses heavily modified beam focus optics to increase power and render the beam invisible to the naked eye.
Range: 36” S:x Ap:6 Type: Rapid Fire, Sniper
Special Rules: Infiltrate, Scout, Patient Hunter, Desperate Stand
Patient Hunter: If a unit with this rule doesn’t move during the movement phase his ballistic skill will be counted as +1 during the turn’s shooting phase.
Desperate Stand: It is common practice among Hadian snipers to try to pull off point blank headshots as foes close on them. When an enemy declares a charge against a Company Marksman he counts his BS as 2 with no armour saves allowed on a roll of six.
Hades Longlas: a specially made Longlas rifle that uses heavily modified beam focus optics to increase power and render the beam invisible to the naked eye.
Range: 36” S:x Ap:6 Type: Rapid Fire, Sniper
Special Rules: Infiltrate, Scout, Patient Hunter, Desperate Stand
Patient Hunter: If a unit with this rule doesn’t move during the movement phase his ballistic skill will be counted as +1 during the turn’s shooting phase.
Desperate Stand: It is common practice among Hadian snipers to try to pull off point blank headshots as foes close on them. When an enemy declares a charge against a Company Marksman he counts his BS as 2 with no armour saves allowed on a roll of six.
So what, BS 7 if I stand still? Uhh, no. Hes a guardsman. Make it BS4 with +1.
Desperate stand is simply +1 BS for Overwatch. no armor saves on a 6, is this to hit or to wound? clarify
@ Ovion: Tartaros Terminator Armour allows Sweeping Advances but reduces the Invulnerable save to 6+ (something about trading protection for mobility).
"Inviolate Armour" fitted well with this I thought, as the armour worn by Adamas Velen could be a relic under the care of the chapter. Unlike the Iron Hands in 30K, in this instance it would only be limited to one character.
Hades Longlas: a specially made Longlas rifle that uses heavily modified beam focus optics to increase power and render the beam invisible to the naked eye.
Range: 36” S:x Ap:6 Type: Rapid Fire, Sniper
Special Rules: Infiltrate, Scout, Patient Hunter, Desperate Stand
Patient Hunter: If a unit with this rule doesn’t move during the movement phase his ballistic skill will be counted as +1 during the turn’s shooting phase.
Desperate Stand: It is common practice among Hadian snipers to try to pull off point blank headshots as foes close on them. When an enemy declares a charge against a Company Marksman he counts his BS as 2 with no armour saves allowed on a roll of six.
Cost
Spoiler:
Base - Veteran 7
+2BS +20
+1W +10
+1Ld +5
Hades Long Las +10
Camo Cloak +10
Infiltrate +10
Scout +10
Desperate Stand +5
Patient Hunter +5
Total: 92
Sniper Weapons are rending anyway, so auto-wound and are AP2 on a to-wound roll of a 6 anyway.
I still stand 5 with the +1 is fine, but hey, it's much better now. I also think the giving-a-pistol-and-letting-him-fire-both-in-overwatch thing would be pretty cool, but that's me.
NeoAigaion wrote:@ Ovion: Tartaros Terminator Armour allows Sweeping Advances but reduces the Invulnerable save to 6+ (something about trading protection for mobility).
"Inviolate Armour" fitted well with this I thought, as the armour worn by Adamas Velen could be a relic under the care of the chapter. Unlike the Iron Hands in 30K, in this instance it would only be limited to one character.
Ah, call it 250 then.
A nice round number.
I shall check what the last characters I posted were, then post some of my own!
Tarik Venn is the master of the Iron Knights, stalwart sons of Dorn, and the only chapter to retain the Dornsblade for 2 consequtive Feasts of Blades. He is an honorable, if stubborn man, a noted swordsman and a gifted strategist. He was recently severely wounded in an Alpha Legion ambush, and has never quite managed to recover from the point-blank melta shot that came so close to finally ending his illustrious career.
225 points
Type: Infantry (character)
Composition: 1 (unique)
WS6 BS5 S4 T5 W4 I5 A4 Ld10 Sv2+
Wargear: Iron Halo, relic blade, storm bolter, frag and krak grenades
Relic armour: This is a set of artificer Mk 3 plate, a relic of the Heresy. Provides a 2+ armor save and +1 Toughness(included in profile)
Special Rules: Independent Character, Stubborn, Counter Attack
Recurring wounds: At the end of each game turn, roll a dice. On a 5+, Venn suffers a wound with no saves allowed.
Iron Knight: Must issue and accept all challenges. All models in the same detachment gain the Stubborn USR.
Blades! BLADES!: All models in the same detachment gain the Counter Attack USR.
Warlord Trait: Stand Fast!: Once per game, at the start of any phase, declare that you are using this. For the remainder of that player turn, all models from the same detachment gain the Fearless USR.
No hard feelings, but when I post here I'm in an analytical and critical mood. A good rule of thumb, at least for me, is that if I am engaging with you, I'm doing what I can to help. But no sweat. 
sorry meant 
