Yeah, honestly as a harlie player, this just... makes me lose interest. We already have the fewest possible datasheets, now we lose any real chance to diversify those as well. I like the effects of the weapons, but keeping that as strats? Making them all effectively the same thing? I really fail to see how that solution occurred given there was never any problem to begin with.
The consolidation makes me kind of excited to start buying harlequin models. I am, however, a Craftworld player so the consolidation of the weapons is appealing to me. I can see however why those who were collecting Harlequin models feel miffed.
Scale comparison of the new Aeldari Rangers. Quite a difference, but from a slight angle from above it's not that noticeable. Definitely not as out of place as Primaris next to regular Marines.
Daedalus81 wrote:Ah, yes. The Harlequin weapons. So distinct and useful that...
Spoiler:
...people...
Spoiler:
...really...
Spoiler:
...mixed...
Spoiler:
...them up!
Truly a great loss with the new base being better than all the other old versions.
Daedalus81 wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote: When I was joking about Marines having 18 different types of bolter, I thought I was just engaging in a bit of light Internet Hyperbole. There were probably around 12-ish in reality, right? Nope!
48.
Fourty eight.
And I left off the Combi-Plasma/Flamer/Melta/Grav entries. Those woudl take it to 52. And I wasn't even considering Relics.
Holy hell...
Sure, but you won't find 3 different types of bolter on a single unit. One and sometimes a special heavy version is about all we deal with.
Wait, you're saying this isn't a bad change because people didn't mix Embraces/Kisses/Caresses in the same unit (even if they did take units with differing options) and also saying that all the different types of bolt weapon existing isn't a problem because people don't/can't mix 3 different types of them in a single unit?
Sorry, I'm just really struggling to understand your point of view here. It's not like people were only taking one of the Harlequin weapons in their list over the others - they did in fact take them in different units.
If it's fine for 3 different Intercessor squads to have 3 different types of bolters, why is it not fine for Harlequins to have 3 different types of weapon (excluding the sword)?
I think the size difference is only noticeable if you have them side by side and looking really closely. Its a small discrepancy and in no way that will clash with the previous range. I think because of that they look slightly more slender which is a good thing too.
Looking at the assembly kit instructions theres like a couple options per ranger so this multipart kit will probably let you build 10 different rangers without any mods.
Waiting for it to be released on its own but the review did help me figure out the kits better. Cheers.
Scale comparison of the new Aeldari Rangers. Quite a difference, but from a slight angle from above it's not that noticeable. Definitely not as out of place as Primaris next to regular Marines.
Of note, the Deathspinner stats on the Autarch Datasheet are really good. Warp Spiders, pending points, are shaping up to be a solid choice (other than for getting ROD/RND).
Absolutely loving the helmets in that Chosen kit! Hope we get a Chaos Lord kit with the options offered by the Autarch/Canoness kits in the near future.
Looking at the Autarch datasheet it looks like it is not entirely free choice in wargear choices. For example, it only allows mandiblasters if you also take the full loadout of the old Autarch kit: Swooping Hawk wings, fusion pistol, and Banshee Blade.
Can't pair mandiblasters with a star glaive, to then use Strands of Fate to get 6 to wound triggering MW as well.
Daedalus81 wrote: Ah, yes. The Harlequin weapons. So distinct and useful that...
Spoiler:
...people...
Spoiler:
...really...
Spoiler:
...mixed...
Spoiler:
...them up!
Truly a great loss with the new base being better than all the other old versions.
I'm honestly not sure what point you think you're making here.
Harlequin weapons needed to be homogenised because it was too confusing to have different weapons in the same squad . . . even though your own data shows the opposite? What.
Also, I'm not sure I'd count 8th edition as a good metric for Harlequin weapons. Hell, I still remember a major complaint being that these really weird and esoteric harlequin weapons were all just represented with the most generic, boring statlines possible.
Harlequin's Kiss - a weapon that injects a coiled, monofilament spring into its victim, where it unwinds and liquifies their innards - S+1 AP-1 D1d3
Harlequin's Embrace - a weapon that projects a cloud of monofilament wire around the victim, before retracting it such that it carves them into pieces - S+1 AP-3 D1
Harlequin's Caress - a weapon that allows a Harlequin to phase their hand right through a victim's armour, bones and flesh and pluck out their still-beating heart - S+2 AP-2 D1
Boy, what thrilling creativity from these three weapons. These rules definitely read like someone trying to bring a strange and unique army to life, and definitely not a designer rushing to get it out of the way so that he can get back to working on the all-important Custom-Fed Interjector Lightning Bolter.
It astonishes me that Harlequin players were ever able to restrain themselves. I mean, who wouldn't want at least one of each of these unique and very, very different weapons in each of their squads?
Harlequin weapons needed to be homogenised because it was too confusing to have different weapons in the same squad . . . even though your own data shows the opposite? What.
Also, I'm not sure I'd count 8th edition as a good metric for Harlequin weapons. Hell, I still remember a major complaint being that these really weird and esoteric harlequin weapons were all just represented with the most generic, boring statlines possible.
Harlequin's Kiss - a weapon that injects a coiled, monofilament spring into its victim, where it unwinds and liquifies their innards - S+1 AP-1 D1d3
Harlequin's Embrace - a weapon that projects a cloud of monofilament wire around the victim, before retracting it such that it carves them into pieces - S+1 AP-3 D1
Harlequin's Caress - a weapon that allows a Harlequin to phase their hand right through a victim's armour, bones and flesh and pluck out their still-beating heart - S+2 AP-2 D1
Three tiny variations of a very similar melee weapon profile that can be mixed & matched within the same unit was definitely unnecessary rules bloat. I'm happy to see similar changes in my own armies, such as consolidating all the Killa Kan melee weapons rather than worrying about which combination of arms were glued on under a previous codex or edition.
Intercessors were a bad comparison to Harlequins, as they don't contain mixed weapons. There's also far more scope for differentiating ranged weapon profiles and therefore how the unit plays, compared to melee (range being the most obvious stat). A choice of weapon option on an Intercessor unit is the difference between sitting in backfield, midfield, or getting in close for peak effectiveness. All of these Harlequin weapons have the same tactical result - you want to charge.
However there are definitely similar improvements that could and should be made for marine weapons, in particular the Redemptor & Repulsor that can use 5-6 distinct weapon profiles in the same phase.
H.B.M.C. wrote: You don't think a better option would have been to further differentiate them so each one had greater purpose?
Yeah the strategems are all very similar anyway:
6s to hit inflict additional MW (which ignore invulnerable saves)
When charging Roll dice and On a 4+ the target takes a MW Attack ignore invulnerable saves
The first one is the same rule as mandiblasters except against everything. The second one seems a bit pointless as you need to have charged first and it's only one chance per model.
They could have all had identical profiles with a different rule activating on a 6:
Kiss on a 6 to hit inflicts two hits
Embrace on a 6 to hit auto wounds
Caress on a 6 to hit ignores armour
Iracundus wrote: Looking at the Autarch datasheet it looks like it is not entirely free choice in wargear choices. For example, it only allows mandiblasters if you also take the full loadout of the old Autarch kit: Swooping Hawk wings, fusion pistol, and Banshee Blade.
Can't pair mandiblasters with a star glaive, to then use Strands of Fate to get 6 to wound triggering MW as well.
We can hope that this is just something from the box and the full codex will have free access.
But GW being GW it would not shock me if this sticks. Disappoint, and a little anger especially after WarCom promoted the compatibility, but not surprise.
One thing I forgot to point out was that the new Autarch datasheet says you can EITHER draw from the options of the new kit OR take the other plastic Autarch model with its wings, mandiblasters, fusion pistol, and Banshee blade.
No mixing matching like say wings, Reaper Missile Launcher, and Banshee mask.
Also, I'm not sure I'd count 8th edition as a good metric for Harlequin weapons. Hell, I still remember a major complaint being that these really weird and esoteric harlequin weapons were all just represented with the most generic, boring statlines possible. Harlequin's Kiss - a weapon that injects a coiled, monofilament spring into its victim, where it unwinds and liquifies their innards - S+1 AP-1 D1d3 Harlequin's Embrace - a weapon that projects a cloud of monofilament wire around the victim, before retracting it such that it carves them into pieces - S+1 AP-3 D1 Harlequin's Caress - a weapon that allows a Harlequin to phase their hand right through a victim's armour, bones and flesh and pluck out their still-beating heart - S+2 AP-2 D1
Boy, what thrilling creativity from these three weapons. These rules definitely read like someone trying to bring a strange and unique army to life, and definitely not a designer rushing to get it out of the way so that he can get back to working on the all-important Custom-Fed Interjector Lightning Bolter.
It astonishes me that Harlequin players were ever able to restrain themselves. I mean, who wouldn't want at least one of each of these unique and very, very different weapons in each of their squads?
This is not a good wiki reading on the weapon, the unique properties of the harlequin weapon is not the "stat", but their method of activation and application
The kiss have the special Kiss of Death attack, in 7E it is effective against most infantry and light vehicle, in 9E it is effective against everything.
The embrace only activate if the user is moving at high speed
The caress is similar to the kiss, but for more specialised target, in 7E it's effective against everything but overall less reliable than kiss, in 9E it's for target with Inv -save.
All of these weapon have the same stat in 7E, but it's still unique because of their unique trait, the same stat line represent the weapons while it's not active :Kiss/Caress recharging, and Embrace not activate if the user isn't charging.
The "unique stat" the weapons got in 8E is utter garbage, Embrace activate at all time and have better AP than caress? why is Kiss S and AP so bad? It made no sense. The only thing that make sense in those weapon profile is the Kiss D3 that somewhat simulate the Kiss of Death attack. I don't think the 9E rule is perfect but whoever wrote it attempt and has an understanding of these weapons than the nonsense that is 8E rule of the weapons.
stahly wrote: One thing I forgot to point out was that the new Autarch datasheet says you can EITHER draw from the options of the new kit OR take the other plastic Autarch model with its wings, mandiblasters, fusion pistol, and Banshee blade.
No mixing matching like say wings, Reaper Missile Launcher, and Banshee mask.
stahly wrote: One thing I forgot to point out was that the new Autarch datasheet says you can EITHER draw from the options of the new kit OR take the other plastic Autarch model with its wings, mandiblasters, fusion pistol, and Banshee blade.
No mixing matching like say wings, Reaper Missile Launcher, and Banshee mask.
I really thought they were turning a corner. The options on the new Gravis Captain, the Primaris Ancient, and an Autarch kit filled with different weapon options plus, apparently, completely compatible with the current Autarch kit.
Fantastic. After years of mono-pose optionless nonsense a shift in design paradigm, a shift that just took a while to find us due to the lead time in miniature design plus the slowdowns of the past while.
But no. They've turned no corners, and we were all fools for holding onto that hope.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I really thought they were turning a corner. The options on the new Gravis Captain, the Primaris Ancient, and an Autarch kit filled with different weapon options plus, apparently, completely compatible with the current Autarch kit.
Fantastic. After years of mono-pose optionless nonsense a shift in design paradigm, a shift that just took a while to find us due to the lead time in miniature design plus the slowdowns of the past while.
But no. They've turned no corners, and we were all fools for holding onto that hope.
Because what the feth, GW????
Yeah, I got to that part and let out a deep sign.
On the other hand, even with this nonsense, it's still orders of magnitude better than the Archon.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I really thought they were turning a corner. The options on the new Gravis Captain, the Primaris Ancient, and an Autarch kit filled with different weapon options plus, apparently, completely compatible with the current Autarch kit.
Fantastic. After years of mono-pose optionless nonsense a shift in design paradigm, a shift that just took a while to find us due to the lead time in miniature design plus the slowdowns of the past while.
But no. They've turned no corners, and we were all fools for holding onto that hope.
Because what the feth, GW????
There's some speculation on Discord that it's simply a limitation of the box's datasheet and won't be present in the Codex, and this isn't the first time this has happened either.
Platuan4th wrote: "Hey everyone! We made sure the new Autarch was compatible with the old one!"
"Unless you actually want to use the models."
Exactly, totally baffling that they'd mention that as a selling point in the article and then put out a datasheet like that. I never bought the wings version so this doesn't really affect me, but I'm pissed for those that it does, and just the general continuation of GW making unit equipment so painful to work out.
Also the harlequin changes are silly. Like they're trying to simplify it by going for one stat line, but then making it complicated again by adding the stratagems. I'd argue that harlequins are not a unit you want to simplify in this way anyway. They're murderclowns with some of the weirdest weapons in the galaxy, give their weapons a bit of thought and make them a little bit more complicated!
On the Autarch its gotta be just the box set datasheet being limited and the codex one will allow more options right? I mean the Autarch on the cover of the new codex would be illegal if not? (Has wings, mandiblasters glaive and reaper launcher.....
Be freaking hilarious if that is not the case and the central figure on the cover is not a legal option ha...
If it was the case of only the datasheet in the box being limited, they surely wouldn't include the options from a different kit in there, now would they.
It seems very plausible that this is gonna be the Codex datasheet, for reasons incomprehensible to the human mind.
My biggest take away from this is warp spiders are going to be super good. d6 auto hitting blast shots and can move 2d6 after shooting. 5 man unit will absolutely delete any 11+ unit.
Besides the warcom mention of customization with existing Autarch, if you simply wanted to reproduce that splendid Autarch on the cover of the codex..... well, the rules say you can't, lol
I'm wondering if the Autarch rules in the Omens book are temporary.
They seem designed to build just what comes in the box OR the existing Winged Autarch.
It wouldn't be the first time GW released new models with rules in a box set than gave new rules in the Codex
Fingers crossed the Codex datasheet will allow more mix-n-match.
Or at least for the Skyrunner Autarch.
Devil's advocate moment though, it could be Crusade lets you open up more options for an Autarch. There's a bunch of showcase shots in the AdMech book of the example Crusade force's 10 model Skitarii Ranger squads toting 3x weapons(including two of the same! scandalous!). And not all are shown in the "Crusade" section.
Galef wrote: I'm wondering if the Autarch rules in the Omens book are temporary.
They seem designed to build just what comes in the box OR the existing Winged Autarch.
It wouldn't be the first time GW released new models with rules in a box set than gave new rules in the Codex
Fingers crossed the Codex datasheet will allow more mix-n-match.
Or at least for the Skyrunner Autarch.
It won't change. We all know this despite having a moment of hope based on the warcom article that said the two autarch kits are compatible. Unit options are based on what comes in the kit now. The winged autarch is its own kit. So it can only be built with what's in the kit. The new autarch will be its own kit as well.
Daedalus81 wrote: Sure, but you won't find 3 different types of bolter on a single unit. One and sometimes a special heavy version is about all we deal with.
An Indomitor Kill Team can have 7 different types of bolt weapons in a single unit.
Spoiler:
bolt pistol, heavy bolt rifle, hellstorm bolt rifle, executor bolt rifle, heavy bolter (or variant), auto boltstorm gauntlets, assault bolters
It looks almost like the model designers, artists, and rules designers were not talking to each other.
Model designer: All the options will be backwards compatible with the old Autarch. Players will free to be able to mix and match any combination they desire!
Artists: I hear the model designers are making things customizable again. Let's change things up a bit from the old Autarch model for the front cover of the Codex!
Rules designers: Each box only comes with a limited number of options so that will be the only combination they will be allowed to build. It's not like they would be able to mix and match with the contents of the old Autarch box!
The problem is the way GW writes optional parts for 40K armies today. Even if the kits are being kept separate they've a very confusing way of writing things that on the one hand is "trying" to make it easy to get into, but its almost like the yare trying so hard that they actually miss how they are making it more difficult.
It strikes me that perhaps those who design those optional tables are either not getting or not responding to feedback on them.
It is also strange that two kits GW provides can't be combined when its in their very design. Heck GW already has kits like the Slaanesh Chariot where you need two to make an exalted; or the DoK Cauldron which is needed for most of their stand alone heroes and Khaine Statue
So GW CAN do this stuff. It's strange ,but eh we can just hope it will shift around in the future at some stage.
Overread wrote: The problem is the way GW writes optional parts for 40K armies today. Even if the kits are being kept separate they've a very confusing way of writing things that on the one hand is "trying" to make it easy to get into, but its almost like the yare trying so hard that they actually miss how they are making it more difficult.
It strikes me that perhaps those who design those optional tables are either not getting or not responding to feedback on them.
Or the feedback they're getting is useless.
It is also strange that two kits GW provides can't be combined when its in their very design. Heck GW already has kits like the Slaanesh Chariot where you need two to make an exalted; or the DoK Cauldron which is needed for most of their stand alone heroes and Khaine Statue
So GW CAN do this stuff. It's strange ,but eh we can just hope it will shift around in the future at some stage.
Overread wrote: The problem is the way GW writes optional parts for 40K armies today. Even if the kits are being kept separate they've a very confusing way of writing things that on the one hand is "trying" to make it easy to get into, but its almost like the yare trying so hard that they actually miss how they are making it more difficult.
It strikes me that perhaps those who design those optional tables are either not getting or not responding to feedback on them.
Or the feedback they're getting is useless.
It would be interesting to know what percentage of people yelling about things they don't like on Internet echo chambers also send feedback directly to GW.
Overread wrote: The problem is the way GW writes optional parts for 40K armies today. Even if the kits are being kept separate they've a very confusing way of writing things that on the one hand is "trying" to make it easy to get into, but its almost like the yare trying so hard that they actually miss how they are making it more difficult.
It strikes me that perhaps those who design those optional tables are either not getting or not responding to feedback on them.
Or the feedback they're getting is useless.
It would be interesting to know what percentage of people yelling about things they don't like on Internet echo chambers also send feedback directly to GW.
And how those emails are worded. Sometimes the difference between feedback being accepted and rejected is purely in the tone of the message. The content can easily be lost in poor or hostile wording.
Heck I'm always telling people to email GW to ask for a base size chart to be made for 40K/to update the AOS one.
I think one issue is people VENT on community sites and they don't often follow through. Then again sometimes its also likely because a lot of feedback will get the generic "thanks we'll take that into account" type of reply. So people might well not feel their feedback is received well enough to be encouraged
Khahandran wrote: There's some speculation on Discord that it's simply a limitation of the box's datasheet and won't be present in the Codex, and this isn't the first time this has happened either.
stahly wrote: One thing I forgot to point out was that the new Autarch datasheet says you can EITHER draw from the options of the new kit OR take the other plastic Autarch model with its wings, mandiblasters, fusion pistol, and Banshee blade.
No mixing matching like say wings, Reaper Missile Launcher, and Banshee mask.
stahly wrote: One thing I forgot to point out was that the new Autarch datasheet says you can EITHER draw from the options of the new kit OR take the other plastic Autarch model with its wings, mandiblasters, fusion pistol, and Banshee blade.
No mixing matching like say wings, Reaper Missile Launcher, and Banshee mask.
stahly wrote: One thing I forgot to point out was that the new Autarch datasheet says you can EITHER draw from the options of the new kit OR take the other plastic Autarch model with its wings, mandiblasters, fusion pistol, and Banshee blade.
No mixing matching like say wings, Reaper Missile Launcher, and Banshee mask.
I hope that's not the case, I'd prefer to mix and match even though I've got the older model.
I also hope it's just for the box set. If it's like that in the codex then the autarch on the cover is illegal in match play.
I don't see any reason why it would be a diffrent datasheet in the box than the final one - afterall, if it was supposed to be a datasheet only intended for the Autarch in the box, they surely wouldn't add options for the model not in the box to it, now would they?
For those thinking the Autarch datasheet is going to be exactly the same as the Codex datasheet, there's presidence for it to be different.
Many of the newer Primaris Marine units that were introduced in box sets have ended up with new rules shortly after when the Codex dropped.
Heck, there's a datasheet in THIS EXACT box that absolutely will get updated: the Chaos Chosen datasheet for Eldritch Omens has leaked and they still only have 1W.
We know that all Chaos Marines are getting the same +1W treatment that Loyalist got, so the minimum wounds for any Chaos Marine will be 2.
So right there we can infer that the datasheets are designed just as a "patch" until the Codices release.
That said, I still wouldn't be surprised if the Autarch was still restricted to either set of options, rather than mix-and-match
Harlequin weapons needed to be homogenised because it was too confusing to have different weapons in the same squad . . . even though your own data shows the opposite? What.
Also, I'm not sure I'd count 8th edition as a good metric for Harlequin weapons. Hell, I still remember a major complaint being that these really weird and esoteric harlequin weapons were all just represented with the most generic, boring statlines possible.
Harlequin's Kiss - a weapon that injects a coiled, monofilament spring into its victim, where it unwinds and liquifies their innards - S+1 AP-1 D1d3
Harlequin's Embrace - a weapon that projects a cloud of monofilament wire around the victim, before retracting it such that it carves them into pieces - S+1 AP-3 D1
Harlequin's Caress - a weapon that allows a Harlequin to phase their hand right through a victim's armour, bones and flesh and pluck out their still-beating heart - S+2 AP-2 D1
Three tiny variations of a very similar melee weapon profile that can be mixed & matched within the same unit was definitely unnecessary rules bloat. I'm happy to see similar changes in my own armies, such as consolidating all the Killa Kan melee weapons rather than worrying about which combination of arms were glued on under a previous codex or edition.
Intercessors were a bad comparison to Harlequins, as they don't contain mixed weapons. There's also far more scope for differentiating ranged weapon profiles and therefore how the unit plays, compared to melee (range being the most obvious stat). A choice of weapon option on an Intercessor unit is the difference between sitting in backfield, midfield, or getting in close for peak effectiveness. All of these Harlequin weapons have the same tactical result - you want to charge.
However there are definitely similar improvements that could and should be made for marine weapons, in particular the Redemptor & Repulsor that can use 5-6 distinct weapon profiles in the same phase.
Rules bloat? Nonsense.
Options are nice.
Like having different options for power and force weapons. I love the small choices like that for squads. It actually makes your units...feel like your units.
Giving them all the same profile is just lazy and takes away choice.
Just like the changes with the atalan jackals...all their dakka options are now generic atalan small arms vs a mix of pistols, shotguns, auto guns, etc.
Lazy!
I don't like changes like this, as it gets closer to the snoozefest (boring-ness) that is Age of Sigmar unit building. No options. No variety. No points differences. Boring.
I'm still sort of flabbergasted by the haywire cannon.
AP3 and flat 3 damage just seems over tuned. If this thing isn't going up in points it will be a huge problem. Anyone else thought much about this thing yet?
Daedalus81 wrote: I'm still sort of flabbergasted by the haywire cannon.
AP3 and flat 3 damage just seems over tuned. If this thing isn't going up in points it will be a huge problem. Anyone else thought much about this thing yet?
Guns being hilariously overturned seems to be a running theme recently.
Glances at the T'au Railgun
Daedalus81 wrote: I'm still sort of flabbergasted by the haywire cannon.
AP3 and flat 3 damage just seems over tuned. If this thing isn't going up in points it will be a huge problem. Anyone else thought much about this thing yet?
You can only take one per slot, unless they change back to squadrons like in the original harlie codex. And they are a glass cannon...but yeah...if they don't go up a bit in points its a little silly.
Although only max of 6 shots....meh. You don't want it costing too much as again, its only one per slot and they have like 6 wounds.
Daedalus81 wrote: I'm still sort of flabbergasted by the haywire cannon.
AP3 and flat 3 damage just seems over tuned. If this thing isn't going up in points it will be a huge problem. Anyone else thought much about this thing yet?
Wonder if they'll do something similar with Tyranid Hive Guard shock cannons. They have exactly the same special rule this weapon did in the 8E Harlequin codex (plus the Haywire rule in older editions).
Daedalus81 wrote: I'm still sort of flabbergasted by the haywire cannon.
AP3 and flat 3 damage just seems over tuned. If this thing isn't going up in points it will be a huge problem. Anyone else thought much about this thing yet?
The Voidweaver dropped its value during 8th edition, and I'm assuming it was because it was too weak for the points at the time. The reduction was roughly the cost of a troupe player.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I really thought they were turning a corner. The options on the new Gravis Captain, the Primaris Ancient, and an Autarch kit filled with different weapon options plus, apparently, completely compatible with the current Autarch kit.
Fantastic. After years of mono-pose optionless nonsense a shift in design paradigm, a shift that just took a while to find us due to the lead time in miniature design plus the slowdowns of the past while.
But no. They've turned no corners, and we were all fools for holding onto that hope.
Because what the feth, GW????
OH FFS! Are you kidding me with this?! Dammit, GW!
It is truly difficult to understand the outstanding level of derp to do this:
1) Tout in a WHC article how interchangeable the options are for the new kit, including how it is interchangeable with the old kit.
2) The artists make a Codex cover in the seeming belief that interchangeability is legal, so they make an Autarch with wings, glaive, and missile launcher.
2) Write rules that make it illegal to interchange options with the old kit, and thus also make the Codex cover illegal.
Way to go shooting down your own product feature.
People should request a FAQ amendment ASAP.
Iracundus wrote: It is truly difficult to understand the outstanding level of derp to do this:
1) Tout in a WHC article how interchangeable the options are for the new kit, including how it is interchangeable with the old kit.
2) The artists make a Codex cover in the seeming belief that interchangeability is legal, so they make an Autarch with wings, glaive, and missile launcher.
2) Write rules that make it illegal to interchange options with the old kit, and thus also make the Codex cover illegal.
Way to go shooting down your own product feature.
People should request a FAQ amendment ASAP.
No FAQ needed yet, as we don’t know for certain this will be mirrored in the Codex proper.
Iracundus wrote: It is truly difficult to understand the outstanding level of derp to do this:
1) Tout in a WHC article how interchangeable the options are for the new kit, including how it is interchangeable with the old kit.
2) The artists make a Codex cover in the seeming belief that interchangeability is legal, so they make an Autarch with wings, glaive, and missile launcher.
2) Write rules that make it illegal to interchange options with the old kit, and thus also make the Codex cover illegal.
Way to go shooting down your own product feature.
People should request a FAQ amendment ASAP.
We seen the autarch datasheet in the codex already?
Voss wrote: I dunno, it seems more constructive to get people to accept reality as printed and presented, rather than go through the 'wait and see' excuses.
How is it "more constructive" to start making plans founded on uncertain data, when certain data is coming in X weeks?
What is going to happen is going to happen at this point. The codex is almost assuredly printed and sitting ready to go.
If this happens, we can add it to the book of grudges and let GW we are unhappy with it.
if it doesn’t happen, we can rejoice and model freely.
I generally expect the worst from GW, but am ready to be pleasantly surprised. I try (with mixed success) not to get bent out of shape over things that might happen. More than enough things that have/are happening for me to be torqued about.
I have slowly come to accept some people are actually planning to waste a HQ slot on an autarch.
So my guess is you want the "reroll ones".
But now there seems to be debate about actual wargear option -as if the Autarch was expected to interact in the battle as more than just a reroll guy in the back field.
Even as a casual, mostly narrative, player Im amazed at this unexpected confidence in the hopeless role of the Autarch.
Thoughts/speculation on what the “resonator shard” keyword is for on the rangers? Not on the shroudrunners.
While looking at the leaks on the front page of the thread to see if anyone else had it (they didn’t) noticed the troupe master picked up haywire grenades. Not sure if that is new.
Fayric wrote: I have slowly come to accept some people are actually planning to waste a HQ slot on an autarch.
So my guess is you want the "reroll ones".
But now there seems to be debate about actual wargear option -as if the Autarch was expected to interact in the battle as more than just a reroll guy in the back field.
Even as a casual, mostly narrative, player Im amazed at this unexpected confidence in the hopeless role of the Autarch.
You never know, GW may make the Autarch into a glorious must have HQ model that bolsters the front lines. Unlikely, but you never know!
Voss wrote: I dunno, it seems more constructive to get people to accept reality as printed and presented, rather than go through the 'wait and see' excuses.
How is it "more constructive" to start making plans founded on uncertain data, when certain data is coming in X weeks?
How is what GW deliberately wrote, selected and chose to print 'uncertain?'
Voss wrote: I dunno, it seems more constructive to get people to accept reality as printed and presented, rather than go through the 'wait and see' excuses.
How is it "more constructive" to start making plans founded on uncertain data, when certain data is coming in X weeks?
How is what GW deliberately wrote, selected and chose to print 'uncertain?'
Rules printed in boxes like these aren't always the same as what shows up in the codex.
Is it more likely that the Autarch-rules will be the same in the eldar-codex than, say, that Chosen will still have 1w in the CSM'dex? Yes
Do we know for a fact that they will? no
But we will know for certain in about 2-3 weeks. So why work oneself up about it prematurely?
Edit:
Nevelon wrote: If this happens, we can add it to the book of grudges and let GW we are unhappy with it.
if it doesn’t happen, we can rejoice and model freely.
Yes, Nevelon said it better than me!
I probably just stirred up things unnecessarily. I apologise, Voss
Fayric wrote: I have slowly come to accept some people are actually planning to waste a HQ slot on an autarch.
So my guess is you want the "reroll ones".
But now there seems to be debate about actual wargear option -as if the Autarch was expected to interact in the battle as more than just a reroll guy in the back field.
Even as a casual, mostly narrative, player Im amazed at this unexpected confidence in the hopeless role of the Autarch.
You never know, GW may make the Autarch into a glorious must have HQ model that bolsters the front lines. Unlikely, but you never know!
I disagree. Before they nerfed it into legends autarch with reaper launcher + hunter trait+falochus wing+star glaive was a great sniper platform/combat back up
Really good as backline support with weapon platforms and tanks
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warpedpig wrote: What will the D cannon stats be? I wanna know if wraithseers and support cannons will be hitting like a ton of bricks with indirect fire.
I believe its currently 3+D3 in the imperial armor book so its probably a good indicator.
Voss wrote: I dunno, it seems more constructive to get people to accept reality as printed and presented, rather than go through the 'wait and see' excuses.
How is it "more constructive" to start making plans founded on uncertain data, when certain data is coming in X weeks?
How is what GW deliberately wrote, selected and chose to print 'uncertain?'
For an example from recent history:
Piety and Pain - from around this time last year - had an incorrect printing of the then-new Palatine datasheet. She had both a plasma pistol and a bolt pistol, and could swap the latter for a rosarius. In the final Codex printing, she has a BP and a rosarius standard, and can swap the former for a plasma pistol.
So the Shuriken Catapults are back to 18". That's at least something and I expect the DA Catapults to go to 24".
The stats on the Night Spinner look good with 48" 2d6AP-2 and D2.
Crystal Targeting Matrix allows you to ignore all hit modifiers.
Spirit Stones double your remaining wounds for degrading comparison
Star Engines add 3" moves
Vectored Engines are used in the Command Phase to once per battle to give the vehicle Battle Focus, so vehicles have acces to Move-Shoot-Move.
Voss wrote: I dunno, it seems more constructive to get people to accept reality as printed and presented, rather than go through the 'wait and see' excuses.
How is it "more constructive" to start making plans founded on uncertain data, when certain data is coming in X weeks?
How is what GW deliberately wrote, selected and chose to print 'uncertain?'
Let's also keep in mind that the Codex version of the datasheet isn't going to say, "(see Codex: Aeldari)"
So the Shuriken Catapults are back to 18". That's at least something and I expect the DA Catapults to go to 24".
I haven't heard that DA catapults are getting a range bonus, but what we have heard is that they will be Assault 3 and AP-2 (so AP-4 if you roll a 6 to wound). Even with just 18" range and Battle Focus, that's pretty killy.
So the Shuriken Catapults are back to 18". That's at least something and I expect the DA Catapults to go to 24".
I haven't heard that DA catapults are getting a range bonus, but what we have heard is that they will be Assault 3 and AP-2 (so AP-4 if you roll a 6 to wound). Even with just 18" range and Battle Focus, that's pretty killy.
Fayric wrote: I have slowly come to accept some people are actually planning to waste a HQ slot on an autarch.
So my guess is you want the "reroll ones".
But now there seems to be debate about actual wargear option -as if the Autarch was expected to interact in the battle as more than just a reroll guy in the back field.
Even as a casual, mostly narrative, player Im amazed at this unexpected confidence in the hopeless role of the Autarch.
We still need to wait and see but the rumours hinted that Autarchs with some warlord traits and relics could become quite a beatstick but of course those rumours also claimed they were putting lies to throw off GW trail from the original source.
P.S: some leaks hint D weapons like Wraithcannons and such getting extra mortal wounds when rolling 6 to wound...
Probably late to the party on this but wow, "harlequin weapons that are all identical until you use a strategem" is peak 9th edition shittiness, isn't it? Not impressed with that at all.
Fayric wrote: I have slowly come to accept some people are actually planning to waste a HQ slot on an autarch.
So my guess is you want the "reroll ones".
But now there seems to be debate about actual wargear option -as if the Autarch was expected to interact in the battle as more than just a reroll guy in the back field.
Even as a casual, mostly narrative, player Im amazed at this unexpected confidence in the hopeless role of the Autarch.
We still need to wait and see but the rumours hinted that Autarchs with some warlord traits and relics could become quite a beatstick but of course those rumours also claimed they were putting lies to throw off GW trail from the original source.
P.S: some leaks hint D weapons like Wraithcannons and such getting extra mortal wounds when rolling 6 to wound...
In the leaks one of the relic swords could turn the Autarch into a high attack beatstick, certainly something I was interested in.
FWIW, WHC states WD 473 will have rules for Altansar. If so this will be the first time Altansar has ever received Craftworld specific rules. I hope they will actually get some background exploration, and not just vague hints going nowhere of them being all "sinister" for no specific reason. Show don't tell.
Based on previous Index articles, you're probably looking at 4-6 pages of background material? Even if some of that has to cover off Maugan Ra recovering it (am I remembering the right Craftworld here?), there should be room for some exploration of why they are like they are.
Iracundus wrote: FWIW, WHC states WD 473 will have rules for Altansar. If so this will be the first time Altansar has ever received Craftworld specific rules. I hope they will actually get some background exploration, and not just vague hints going nowhere of them being all "sinister" for no specific reason. Show don't tell.
Their sinister past of falling into orbit around the Eye of Terror for 10,000 years and finally being led free will no doubt translate into some amalgamation of words involving "on a 6" and "mortal wound"
If d cannons are 3+D3 wounds plus mortal wounds on 6. I’m gonna be doing support cannot spam. Lol. It’s super annoying to face 9x indirect fire with that much hitting power. D3 shots per cannon. No line of sight needed.
Iracundus wrote: FWIW, WHC states WD 473 will have rules for Altansar. If so this will be the first time Altansar has ever received Craftworld specific rules. I hope they will actually get some background exploration, and not just vague hints going nowhere of them being all "sinister" for no specific reason. Show don't tell.
Their sinister past of falling into orbit around the Eye of Terror for 10,000 years and finally being led free will no doubt translate into some amalgamation of words involving "on a 6" and "mortal wound"
Well actually under the old custom Craftworld rules, I would have thought Altansar would have best suited (on purely background) to have Warding Runes (5++ against MW) and Grim (re-roll Morale).
Iracundus wrote: FWIW, WHC states WD 473 will have rules for Altansar. If so this will be the first time Altansar has ever received Craftworld specific rules. I hope they will actually get some background exploration, and not just vague hints going nowhere of them being all "sinister" for no specific reason. Show don't tell.
Their sinister past of falling into orbit around the Eye of Terror for 10,000 years and finally being led free will no doubt translate into some amalgamation of words involving "on a 6" and "mortal wound"
Clearly, their undead nature will allow them to ignore mortal wounds on a 6.
I'm going 50/50 with a local chaos bro.
Got it at £100 from element games so we are splitting it £50 each which is a pretty good deal IMO.
I think if you can split it the Eldar for £50 isn't a bad deal. RRP is probably going to be around £90~ - so you are probably saving £20+ versus the discount on that.
Weirdly the Chaos kit is likely even more valuable in money terms - potentially approaching £100 because Forgefiends are so (weirdly imo) expensive. And since its an old kit, its not as obviously desirable. But if you were inclined to get one, its not a terrible deal.
So my son and I did some test games with the new Avatar rules vs Guilliman, Nightbringer and a Bloodthirster (the one with the big scary axe). 3 games each.
1v1 vs either Guilliman or the 'Thirster was no match.
Even when they initiated the charge to go first, neither could do enough damage to the Avatar before dying (usually on the Avatar's first swing but not always)
We even let Guilliman get up with full 6 wounds and still the Avatar won every game.
The Nightbringer was another story. The max 3 damage per phase and ignore invul weapon give him the edge.
Although it was fun to note that the 2+ armour the Avatar now gets gave him a 6+ against the Nightbringer that he would not have had before.
I think the Avatar would come out on top against any other C'tan shared because they others allow invuls, so the Avatar should live long enough to deal the damage needed.
I'm actually kinda glad they bumped him over 10W, specifically more than 11 or 12. 10/11/12 wound characters (and vehicles for degrading stats) are always tough to justify since they are so close to getting LOS.
The Avatar should absolutely never get LOS. Even before the size buff, he's a glowing molten iron daemon; you should be able to pick him out. I'm just glad tget gave him 14 wounds and a half-damage ability to make him beefier. Let's also not underestimate T8 and 2+ save.
On the flip side, I also hope Wraithlords LOSE a wound. They are currently 10, which gives them the annoying degrading stats. We know that the WK went from 24 to 22Ws and that Wraith units get -1damage, so here's hoping WLs are only 9Ws
wict01 wrote: Well those harlequin weapon stratagems are gak. We have to pay 4CP a turn just to get our weapons to do what they’re supposed to? I’d rather have just kept the original profiles.
But the weapons never had these abilities. Also 2 of them are mutually exclusive on the same unit, and you may not be using the Caress against every unit.
Yeah hard to be bothered by it and hard to say its a "per turn" thing. Way I see it is that this gives you more flexibility with the squad without necessarily having to pay the points for abilities/profiles you might not use against every opponent. Sometimes the bonus damage, or ability to bypass invuls, etc. is useful and you will pay the CP, other times its not and you won't. In general terms it streamlines your fight phase by allowing you to roll an entire squad of attacks together without needing to differentiate whats a kiss, caress, embrace, etc. and in terms of listbuilding theres no more worrying how to build the squad to get the most out of it, now you're always going to have a mix of weapons in there so you can use these strategems flexibly.
Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote: I just don’t get how it’s too much for people to keep track of to monitor what weapons they’re swinging. Harlequin squads aren’t too big and you don’t have too many of em, it’s really not a pain swinging different weapon profiles.
Exactly this. I also play black Templars and if it’s fine for sword brethren to swing 5 different weapons in close combat without having them differentiated by strats then it should be fine for everyone else too.
We already know that Chaos Chosen are getting the same treatment as Harlequins are, so this seems to be the new trend, your Sword Brethren will get the same treatment in 10th, I'm sure. Its unfortuante that GW can't seem to stick to/commit to a single design paradigm or concept for the duration of an edition though and keep things consistent from book to book over the edition lifecycle, but it seems we're seeing the traditional mid-edition shift that we've come to expect over the last few editions of the game.
Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote: You can do it even worse with ork nobz lmao, complete mix of power klawz, sawz, choppas, big choppas, power stabbas, and kombi weapons. Even then though you just have to like, think about it beforehand for a second.
Scale comparison of the new Aeldari Rangers. Quite a difference, but from a slight angle from above it's not that noticeable. Definitely not as out of place as Primaris next to regular Marines.
Hopefully this is just the "modified box set datasheet" and the full codex datasheet doesn't have the same restriction. It wouldn't be the first time that GW has provided datasheets as part of a box set which are modified/different from the ones found in the codex that releases a month or two after. I mean, its not like the Chaos Marines in the same box don't have that exact problem or anything....
Also certainly possible that we're in for another day 1 FAQ/Errata, with the current wording of the rule being changed to allow the mix and match.
Also certainly possible that this *is* the datasheet as intended, and once again the people writing Warcom were unaware/clueless or poorly worded their article in a manner that proved to be misleading.
Iracundus wrote: FWIW, WHC states WD 473 will have rules for Altansar. If so this will be the first time Altansar has ever received Craftworld specific rules. I hope they will actually get some background exploration, and not just vague hints going nowhere of them being all "sinister" for no specific reason. Show don't tell.
Their sinister past of falling into orbit around the Eye of Terror for 10,000 years and finally being led free will no doubt translate into some amalgamation of words involving "on a 6" and "mortal wound"
I don't like the 90s hairdos, but everything else is so metal. I love that they have discounted aspect warriors, like how the SoB got models reminiscent of HQs
Automatically Appended Next Post: Besides the visarch, are these the first eldar helmets with ears?
The only thing I don't like is the banner and that's mostly because it gives me flash-backs to the old old warlord with a lead metal banner that always wound up bending.
Nevelon wrote: I’m actually a little happy I don’t like these guys. Saves the hobby budget a tad.
Will make it easier to not get sucked into KT.
I'm the exact opposite. I like them so much that I know I'm going to feel compelled to get some even though I've been trying to resist getting into KillTeam 2.0, and that annoys me.
Daedalus81 wrote: Maybe it's just me, but those Corsairs have to be the coolest Eldar I've ever seen.
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Sotahullu wrote: Okay, I really like these guys but at the same time I really hope to lessen the amount of accesories.
Kill Team comes with tons of extra stuff to spiff them out so lots of it will be optional.
Makes you wonder what the "generic" version will be. Sister Noviates got autoguns, DKK have their lasguns, etc. Maybe they'll go the Kommando route and have more options
I hope the capes are optional.. Just realized I prefer the model without one. If given the option, I'd only have the leader wear a cape (for elevated status, of course)
Absolutely love them… apart from the bare head of the dude grasping the waystones. He’ll get head replacement surgery.
tauist wrote: I hope the capes are optional.. Just realized I prefer the model without one. If given the option, I'd only have the leader wear a cape (for elevated status, of course)
Well, there were supposed to be two levels of corsairs with these as the higher.
I'm not an Eldar player, but damn...this set screams Rogue Trader. I may need to get a set to paint up in crazy colors...and yes, Sigue Sigue Sputnik will act as a partial inspiration.
Crossing my fingers for more Visarch style helmets!
I wonder if there'll also be a "generic" 40k version like the Sisters Novitate got. The datasheet leaks mentioned shuriken rifles, which I can't find in the WHC post, so maybe blasters, shredders and shuriken rifles for the generic loadoat?
Galef wrote: So my son and I did some test games with the new Avatar rules vs Guilliman, Nightbringer and a Bloodthirster (the one with the big scary axe). 3 games each.
1v1 vs either Guilliman or the 'Thirster was no match.
Even when they initiated the charge to go first, neither could do enough damage to the Avatar before dying (usually on the Avatar's first swing but not always)
We even let Guilliman get up with full 6 wounds and still the Avatar won every game.
The Nightbringer was another story. The max 3 damage per phase and ignore invul weapon give him the edge.
Although it was fun to note that the 2+ armour the Avatar now gets gave him a 6+ against the Nightbringer that he would not have had before.
I think the Avatar would come out on top against any other C'tan shared because they others allow invuls, so the Avatar should live long enough to deal the damage needed.
I'm actually kinda glad they bumped him over 10W, specifically more than 11 or 12. 10/11/12 wound characters (and vehicles for degrading stats) are always tough to justify since they are so close to getting LOS.
The Avatar should absolutely never get LOS. Even before the size buff, he's a glowing molten iron daemon; you should be able to pick him out. I'm just glad tget gave him 14 wounds and a half-damage ability to make him beefier. Let's also not underestimate T8 and 2+ save.
On the flip side, I also hope Wraithlords LOSE a wound. They are currently 10, which gives them the annoying degrading stats. We know that the WK went from 24 to 22Ws and that Wraith units get -1damage, so here's hoping WLs are only 9Ws
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Glad the AOK has had a lovely glow up but I hope the GDs get their own and return to being as strong as they should be (ie stronger than the Avatar lol)
The Corsair kit is just incredible. Probably a slight pain when it comes to rolling dice for so many options, but it is flat out gorgeous. Would love to see more kits styled this way.
Probably a slight pain when it comes to rolling dice for so many options, but it is flat out gorgeous. Would love to see more kits styled this way.
All of the weapons will have a single stat line, and you will spend CP on a stratagem for special effects.
Yeah. Im not sure how many specialist options are included in a 40k game, but the majority will have a basic statline. Noviates kit includes 10 autoguns, the DKK have their lasguns, etc.
Kommandos had most (if not all) of their Kill Team options available in 40k though, IIRC the same is true of the Tau Pathfinders. Seems to vary from faction to faction.
Probably a slight pain when it comes to rolling dice for so many options, but it is flat out gorgeous. Would love to see more kits styled this way.
All of the weapons will have a single stat line, and you will spend CP on a stratagem for special effects.
Wouldn't rule it out, but I wonder if that Harlequin CP business is an attempt to make them feel different in how they play, as both Drukhari and Craftworlds can also make "hit like a freight train" army lists. I'm assuming its because Harlequins have a low model count and incredible skills that they might be a CP heavy faction, going forward?
Trying to figure out the direction for 9th edition is hard sometimes.
I wonder if there are any head options, particularly helmets.
Also I note that all the Corsairs seem to have all universally gone for Dark Eldar left shoulder pauldrons and leggings (*ahem* I mean greaves). Almost like a mismatched uniform of their band, rather than individual mix and match armor.
My friend described the Corsairs as epitomes of soulless copy-paste design and I am afraid I have to agree. I love eighties Eldar design because models were individual and full of character. One model had chainmail underpants, the other had boots with high heels, the third had belt with studs. Champion probably had all of them. These look too uniform to me, the only difference being weapons and head options. Boring colour scheme doesn't help either. They feel more like a 40k unit than Kill Team made of individuals, which is fine but at the same time disappointing.
That being said, if KT: Nachmund contains a good amount of scenery, I am willing to give the Corsairs a chance. I may need to burn my eyes on eighties fashion for colour scheme and loot my bits box for alternative parts. And find a suitable peg leg.
Tempted by the corsairs, but how much will they be? That's what will decide if I buy or not. Still, they'd be well suited as foes for my Deathwatch kill team.
As for the paint scheme, they should have used the yellow and orange of the Sunblitz Brotherhood from the original WD article.
Splice the mainbrace is an order given aboard naval vessels to issue the crew with an alcoholic drink. {From Wikipedia}
I just hope they're sold separately outside of the boxed set sooner rather than later. It took the death korps way too long to become available on their own.
I'd imagine that's due for a repack, though whether it stays as a box of 3 models or they get split to individual packs will probably depend on the sprue designs.
I really don't like how one corsair appears to have a straight up regular dark eldar helmet? They have a big "conversions" vibe to me that I don't love
Quick question for those more educated in such matters than I; the change of Harlequin equipment to just being stratagems seems like an atrocity to me, is there some context I am missing?
NinthMusketeer wrote: Quick question for those more educated in such matters than I; the change of Harlequin equipment to just being stratagems seems like an atrocity to me, is there some context I am missing?
They still have a melee profile, which is mostly an improvement over the old ones, even if they're homogenized. The stratagems just give new options. It's not unlike how they gave the missile launcher and heavy bolter the flak missile and hellfire stratagems.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Quick question for those more educated in such matters than I; the change of Harlequin equipment to just being stratagems seems like an atrocity to me, is there some context I am missing?
ph34r wrote: I really don't like how one corsair appears to have a straight up regular dark eldar helmet? They have a big "conversions" vibe to me that I don't love
That's basically the visarch's helmet. They've clearly got a lot of different aesthetic elements in there.
I personally quite like the variety and definitely think more individualised colour schemes will help bring it out.
I really like how the corsairs are a mix of DE and craftworld aesthetics. I think one could pretty easily kitbash more corsairs with leftover corsair bits and some kabalite and guardian bits and have them mesh well visually.
Dysartes wrote: I'd imagine that's due for a repack, though whether it stays as a box of 3 models or they get split to individual packs will probably depend on the sprue designs.
All the Ynnead sprues are separate from each other. I think the only reason we haven't gotten a separated repack earlier is very likely because Ynnari have been a "leftover" faction.
I absolutely love these corsairs like. Some of the head options are a bit naff but the kit and the style is very cool. Much more what I'd expect of corsairs as opposed to the FW ones which to me looked like garbage.
EDIT: okay scratch that I don't like the edgy dweeb with the knives.
I think they look mostly good. Not a fan of the medallion one. Farseer-y one and the two former-Dark Eldar are the best, IMO.
vipoid wrote: That said, especially with the state of the Autarch, I'm quite concerned that all that nice-looking wargear is going to amount to feth-all.
One model per 10 may have a Shredder. One model per ten may have two Aelderairiir Combat Blades and a Warp Jump Generator. One model per ten may have a Shuriken Cannon. And on, and on, and on...
Crimson wrote: I really like how the corsairs are a mix of DE and craftworld aesthetics. I think one could pretty easily kitbash more corsairs with leftover corsair bits and some kabalite and guardian bits and have them mesh well visually.
Especially with the new Guardian kit that includes pistols, fusion guns/flames and melee weapons.
I actually think the new Guardians plus Wyches would make for better Corsairs than Kabalites.
Both Kabalites and Wyches have similar armour, but Wyches are asymmetrical, having more armour on one side.
That seems to fit the Corsair aesthetics better
H.B.M.C. wrote: I think they look mostly good. Not a fan of the medallion one. Farseer-y one and the two former-Dark Eldar are the best, IMO.
vipoid wrote: That said, especially with the state of the Autarch, I'm quite concerned that all that nice-looking wargear is going to amount to feth-all.
One model per 10 may have a Shredder. One model per ten may have two Aelderairiir Combat Blades and a Warp Jump Generator. One model per ten may have a Shuriken Cannon. And on, and on, and on...
Every model in this unit is armed with Corsair Shooty Things and Corsair Stabby Stuff.
For every 5 models in the unit, one model may replace their Corsair Shooty Thing with a scond Corsair Stabby Stuff.
Every model in the unit can be upgraded to have Corsair Shiny Gizmos
Anyone else find it curious how we got all of these leaked images, Stat lines, weapons profiles, etc......yet we still haven't heard anything about the craftworld traits?
l0k1 wrote: Anyone else find it curious how we got all of these leaked images, Stat lines, weapons profiles, etc......yet we still haven't heard anything about the craftworld traits?
Not really? Most of the stat lines are from repacked kits that have the new instructions with the get-you-by profiles in the back and no special rules. Or really any text they would have to waste space on for translations.
Everything else is from Warhammer Community, pretty much.
l0k1 wrote: Anyone else find it curious how we got all of these leaked images, Stat lines, weapons profiles, etc......yet we still haven't heard anything about the craftworld traits?
Not really? Most of the stat lines are from repacked kits that have the new instructions with the get-you-by profiles in the back and no special rules. Or really any text they would have to waste space on for translations.
Everything else is from Warhammer Community, pretty much.
You might want to double check the first post. We have a lot of blurry-cam shots of individual datasheets with full rules.
l0k1 wrote: Anyone else find it curious how we got all of these leaked images, Stat lines, weapons profiles, etc......yet we still haven't heard anything about the craftworld traits?
Not really? Most of the stat lines are from repacked kits that have the new instructions with the get-you-by profiles in the back and no special rules. Or really any text they would have to waste space on for translations.
Everything else is from Warhammer Community, pretty much.
Many of the images we got were from the playtester codex. I'd think that aside from Battle Focus and Strands of Fate rules, the craftworld traits would be the next big rules to leak being as they are the foundation on which you build your army. It strikes me as a very interesting thing to omit.
If they can carry a wraithcannon, then they have retconned the bit in the Iyanden supplement where it was written that only Wraithguard wield Wraithcannons as it was dangerous for the living to be so near the baleful energies of the Wraithcannon. Or maybe they haven't retconned it and the Corsairs simply don't care about danger.
They will make Cool troops choices. 10 man unit with some special weapons. Wraith cannon and blaster. Definitely give them some serious punch. Would have to see all the rules and how to fit them into a list.
Hellebore wrote: Auspex tactics has done a breakdown of what the units rules are in 40k and it sounds pretty interesting.
Especially as the one kit is effectively producing 4 different unit types - 1 range elite, 1 cc elite, 1 range troop, 1 cc troop.
That's pretty good.
So Voidreavers are basically Kabalite Warriors sans PfP and 2pts more expensive but with actual guns rather than water pistols. In fact they really are Kabalites because their only special weapons are Blasters and Shredders (no Fusion Guns, which is a shame). A 10-man squad can take a Shuriken Cannon but it's heavy and they have nothing to allow them to move and fire, nor any other claim to being a stationary weapons unit, so barring as-yet-unseen rules that's a dead option from the get-go. The Wraithcannon is more interesting being assault and basically a Blaster with better strength and damage. The Felarch's options are hilariously bad - a Neuro Disruptor (fear my power to do 1 mortal wound and kill all of half a Marine! Wooooo!) and a 4++ on a model that isn't worth protecting. Super.
They have a nice ability which apparently make to-hit rolls of 6 auto-wound and also count as having rolled a 6 to wound. This means that any 6s to hit with their Shuriken weapons auto-wound and are resolved at better AP.
They seem okay, if a little pricey, but the fact that they can't fill mandatory troop slots is a heavy blow.
Going to be honest - the rules presented here don't really scream 'Corsairs' to me. I think it's how sterile they feel. I expect Corsairs to be like the Orks of the space-elf world - not quite ramshackle but very much a collection of whatever they've managed to steal/salvage/scavenge.
However, any hopes that this might be the case is immediately derailed by the standard 'no model, no rules' policy that GW remains desperate to force on us. Thus, Corsairs can have Blasters and Shredders but not Fusion Guns because no one could be arsed making models for them. They can have Shuriken Cannons and Wraithcannons but not Splinter Cannons, Dark Lances or even Dissonance weapons. You know, the weapons that used to be unique to Corsairs. They can have a Neuro Disruptor but not a Blast-, Fusion- or even Shuriken Pistol because . . . er . . . reasons? Oh, and their only melee weapon is a Power Sword, because of course it fething is. What happened to Venom Blades? Why can't any of them take Direswords? Or, you know, Void Sabres, another signature weapon. These also used to be Rending, and an effect along those lines would have helped them synergise with the '6s to hit auto-wound and count as 6s to wound' ability. Sigh.
The other unit is Voidscarred - an Elite unit that also can't fill mandatory slots for some reason.
These are 2pts per model more expensive and appear to only get an extra attack for it. They can take the same wargear as the troop unit but also have some additional options:
- Can swap their rifles for power swords. Er... okay.
- 1-in-10 models can take an Eldar Long Rifle, which feels really out of place.
- 1-in-10 models can swap their power sword for a fusion pistol. What. Why can't they take the pistol with the power sword?
- Oh and 1-in-10 models can take something that lets the unit ignore cover.
You also have some specialist dudes including a guy with WS2+ and what amounts to a S3 Power Sword. zzzzzzzZZZZ
Then there's someone who lets the unit ignore the first failed save each turn. Er... okay.
Finally, you have the Warlork-equivalent who is apparently immune to perils and has something very similar to a Witchblade.
In terms of the overall fee, this unit is a little better in some respects (if only because of more options allowed). However, it's still hamstrung by the aforementioned obsession with no-model, no rules. So (assuming the leaks are accurate) rather than a sensible power sword and pistol arrangement, a model has to choose one or the other. Also for some reason the melee attachment has the worst melee weapons in the unit.
Also, I get the feeling the design team really didn't know what to do with the 'extra' models. 'Ignores cover' and 'ignores the first failed save' just feel like desperate scrounging for what to use these models as, rather than any effort to bring Corsairs to life.
This unit just feels like more of a miss mechanically. They're Elites and more expensive than the Troop option yet don't seem to really bring much extra for that pricetag. Maybe the Warlock will be a game-changer but otherwise I'm struggling to see the appeal of a unit of Power-Sword wielders.
dan2026 wrote: Shame they can't fill out mandatory slots.
Wasn't the rumour that they could, as long as Yriel is your warlord? Niche circumstances I know
Ugh. As if Ynnari wasn't bad enough, now we get to have another faction completely shacked to a special character with no generic equivalent.
But why would anyone have wanted to see the Corsair Prince, Void Seer or Baron return? Not like anyone who plays a faction of space elf pirates might want a heavily-customised HQ to lead them, right?
Argive wrote: Imagine if the warlock corsair is better than a "proper" warlock
In a way that makes sense though, right? Freed from the shackles of the path system, they are willing to dig more deeply into their powers (or are simply reckless enough to do whatever they feel like).
Argive wrote: The eldritch omens box pre-released on saturday. I think its due to ship on the 13th ? Maybe I made this date up though haha
If ordered for in-store pickup from a GW location or ordered by an independent, they'll be shipped in time theoretically for a Saturday release. Meaning preorders on the 5th should be there for pickup on the February 12th release date.
If shipping to your home from the GW webstore, they'll ship the Monday following the release date-- so a preorder on the 5th, release on the 12th, ship on the 14th for home deliveries.
Argive wrote: Imagine if the warlock corsair is better than a "proper" warlock
In a way that makes sense though, right? Freed from the shackles of the path system, they are willing to dig more deeply into their powers (or are simply reckless enough to do whatever they feel like).
Argive wrote: The eldritch omens box pre-released on Saturday. I think its due to ship on the 13th ? Maybe I made this date up though haha
I think they generally ship the next Monday.
I sort of get it but, that would mean they are more volatile if anything. I.e. Bigger power but higher risk. ?
The fact they seem to be immune to perils seems to be contra to that idea
Ugh. As if Ynnari wasn't bad enough, now we get to have another faction completely shacked to a special character with no generic equivalent.
But why would anyone have wanted to see the Corsair Prince, Void Seer or Baron return? Not like anyone who plays a faction of space elf pirates might want a heavily-customised HQ to lead them, right?
Well it's not like you'd be able to do a viable list of entirely Corsairs even if they added a generic non-Yriel HQ.
In order for the Voidreavers to count for you mandatory Troops, you're entire army must be ANHRATHE.
So unless you want an auto-lose army consisting of 100+ T3 models only, it really doesn't matter if Yriel is the only Corsair HQ.
The only viable way to take them is as Elite Voidscarred or as "extra" Troops. We already know that they can be added to a Craftworld detachment without interfering with that detachment being <Craftworld>.
vipoid wrote: Then there's someone who lets the unit ignore the first failed save each turn. Er... okay.
That's literally what squad apothecary in Infiltrator squad does. Did anyone mention primaris rules are gak yet?
But why would anyone have wanted to see the Corsair Prince, Void Seer or Baron return? Not like anyone who plays a faction of space elf pirates might want a heavily-customised HQ to lead them, right?
Yeah, 40K team hate of generic HQs is really stupid and disappointing. Especially seeing AoS does this with nearly every single unique character. Why there is no say Canoness in a walker or flying pulpit on Sister side or Gravis techmarine/Phobos captain with jump pack on SM side I have no idea, GW would be selling tenfold more of these models if they could be taken in other SoB/SM armies and weren't subfaction locked...
Ugh. As if Ynnari wasn't bad enough, now we get to have another faction completely shacked to a special character with no generic equivalent.
But why would anyone have wanted to see the Corsair Prince, Void Seer or Baron return? Not like anyone who plays a faction of space elf pirates might want a heavily-customised HQ to lead them, right?
Knowing modern GW, the customizability of said HQ will be reduced to being able to choose between a Corsair Rifle, or a Corsair Melee Weapon and Corsair Pistol, both of which will have a boatload of diffrent strategems depending on the keyword of your choosing, all of which will suck except one.
Argive wrote: Imagine if the warlock corsair is better than a "proper" warlock
I mean, not even a Farseer gets to ignore perils outright.
Tbh, it's a bit strange because Corsair psykers used to be far more volatile. Back in 7th, they actually had a harsher Perils table (with one result being that the unit dies and then respawns under your opponent's control).
Galef wrote: Well it's not like you'd be able to do a viable list of entirely Corsairs even if they added a generic non-Yriel HQ.
In order for the Voidreavers to count for you mandatory Troops, you're entire army must be ANHRATHE.
So unless you want an auto-lose army consisting of 100+ T3 models only, it really doesn't matter if Yriel is the only Corsair HQ.
The only viable way to take them is as Elite Voidscarred or as "extra" Troops. We already know that they can be added to a Craftworld detachment without interfering with that detachment being <Craftworld>.
The question 'well whose fault is that?' comes to mind. GW literally had an entire Corsair codex, and at that one which would have taken barely any effort to convert to 8th/9th, and they chose to delete it outright.
But even if we ignore that, Corsairs had vehicles. They had their own versions of Venoms, Wave Serpents, War-Walkers etc.
Even if GW can't be arsed giving Corsairs their own units, they could easily have a list of vehicles that gain the ANHRATHE label if taken in that detachment (which would help flesh out a Corsair army).
Yeah, 40K team hate of generic HQs is really stupid and disappointing. Especially seeing AoS does this with nearly every single unique character. Why there is no say Canoness in a walker or flying pulpit on Sister side or Gravis techmarine/Phobos captain with jump pack on SM side I have no idea, GW would be selling tenfold more of these models if they could be taken in other SoB/SM armies and weren't subfaction locked...
Yeah, I really don't like it when special characters have no generic equivalent at all. If I'm going to include a special character, I want it to be on their own merits, not because it's the only way to play a particular army or to get a character with a jump pack or whatever.
Going to be honest - the rules presented here don't really scream 'Corsairs' to me. I think it's how sterile they feel. I expect Corsairs to be like the Orks of the space-elf world - not quite ramshackle but very much a collection of whatever they've managed to steal/salvage/scavenge.
However, any hopes that this might be the case is immediately derailed by the standard 'no model, no rules' policy that GW remains desperate to force on us. Thus, Corsairs can have Blasters and Shredders but not Fusion Guns because no one could be arsed making models for them. They can have Shuriken Cannons and Wraithcannons but not Splinter Cannons, Dark Lances or even Dissonance weapons. You know, the weapons that used to be unique to Corsairs. They can have a Neuro Disruptor but not a Blast-, Fusion- or even Shuriken Pistol because . . . er . . . reasons? Oh, and their only melee weapon is a Power Sword, because of course it fething is. What happened to Venom Blades? Why can't any of them take Direswords? Or, you know, Void Sabres, another signature weapon. These also used to be Rending, and an effect along those lines would have helped them synergise with the '6s to hit auto-wound and count as 6s to wound' ability. Sigh.
That seems like a strange expectation you have. I mean, no one wants unit options limited by kit build options, but at the same time it usually when folks are forced to scavenge like stray cats they don't get better goods or services lol. You basically want the eldar version of rabble and smugglers to be viable as an organized fully fleshed out faction, but wait theres more! You also want them to somehow scavenge their way into having flat better gear then the other fully organized, and better funded versions of eldar in the game.
I mean, if they just gave them the keys to every eldar armory, why would there be any reason to play the other factions lol?
This might be an unpopular opinion but corsairs should have never been a fully fledged faction. I mean I have the FW book and it's a hot mess or trash lol. It has strange jank rules that made no sense (braces of random pistols with better stats then standard issue military rifles?) and unit options that never existed as models anyway (the same brace of pistols lol).
I'll say it again, you want to play army wide pirates? You can, the Drukhari are literally that lol. I mean, the court of the Archon could not be more pirates entourage lol.
This unit basically gave GW an excuse to give folks a pretty amazing kit to play with, and anyone not jumping all the way down the rabbit whole can still play with a unit or two.
Yeah, 40K team hate of generic HQs is really stupid and disappointing. Especially seeing AoS does this with nearly every single unique character. Why there is no say Canoness in a walker or flying pulpit on Sister side or Gravis techmarine/Phobos captain with jump pack on SM side I have no idea, GW would be selling tenfold more of these models if they could be taken in other SoB/SM armies and weren't subfaction locked...
Yeah, I really don't like it when special characters have no generic equivalent at all. If I'm going to include a special character, I want it to be on their own merits, not because it's the only way to play a particular army or to get a character with a jump pack or whatever.
Except that Yriel does have a generic equivalent. Yriel was always the named Autarch character.
The question 'well whose fault is that?' comes to mind. GW literally had an entire Corsair codex, and at that one which would have taken barely any effort to convert to 8th/9th, and they chose to delete it outright.
But even if we ignore that, Corsairs had vehicles. They had their own versions of Venoms, Wave Serpents, War-Walkers etc.
Even if GW can't be arsed giving Corsairs their own units, they could easily have a list of vehicles that gain the ANHRATHE label if taken in that detachment (which would help flesh out a Corsair army).
I guess that's fair. But in a way I am glad. Corsairs were always meant to be a rag-tag fringe group of misfits from various Eldar factions, so them engaging in full sized 40k battles never seemed right (which can be said of multiple 40k faction atm). Corsairs only being a stand-alone force in KT sized engagements and supplementing CWE/DE in larger battles feels more accurate, at least to me.
Yriel's Eldritch Raiders coming to assist Iyanden when it was attacked by Nids was exactly that. And I think that's one of the largest showings of Eldar Corsairs in the current fluff
I wish GW did this with more sub-factions. Not EVERY snowflake faction should be able to pull forces big enough for large battles. Some are fine to be KT only, or used as supplements to bigger armies.
Yeah, 40K team hate of generic HQs is really stupid and disappointing. Especially seeing AoS does this with nearly every single unique character. Why there is no say Canoness in a walker or flying pulpit on Sister side or Gravis techmarine/Phobos captain with jump pack on SM side I have no idea, GW would be selling tenfold more of these models if they could be taken in other SoB/SM armies and weren't subfaction locked...
Yeah, I really don't like it when special characters have no generic equivalent at all. If I'm going to include a special character, I want it to be on their own merits, not because it's the only way to play a particular army or to get a character with a jump pack or whatever.
Except that Yriel does have a generic equivalent. Yriel was always the named Autarch character.
We can hope that in the army construction part of the codex there are rules to replace/add keywords to allow more options. The Autarch has enough options he could be a pirate and join the corsairs. Also might be needed to allow vehicles/other units to join.
Red Corsair wrote: That seems like a strange expectation you have. I mean, no one wants unit options limited by kit build options, but at the same time it usually when folks are forced to scavenge like stray cats they don't get better goods or services lol. You basically want the eldar version of rabble and smugglers to be viable as an organized fully fleshed out faction, but wait theres more! You also want them to somehow scavenge their way into having flat better gear then the other fully organized, and better funded versions of eldar in the game.
I mean, if they just gave them the keys to every eldar armory, why would there be any reason to play the other factions lol?
This seems a little ridiculous. Being able to take Splinter Cannons when they can already take Shuriken Cannons, or getting their signature weapons that they had in prior editions, would neither make them better and more organized than the other Eldar factions nor would it make the other factions obsolete. We're talking small arms and personal wargear, not 'I want to put a prism cannon on a Ravager'.
Glad the AOK has had a lovely glow up but I hope the GDs get their own and return to being as strong as they should be (ie stronger than the Avatar lol)
When I think of how the Greater Daemons and the Avatar of Khaine should be represented on the tabletop I always think back to 2nd edition when they were arguably a scary prospect.
Going by the standard set back then none of the Greater Daemons should be stronger than The Avatar of Khaine (indeed only The Bloodthirster was his equal in the Strength stat department, both being 8 vs 7 for the Keeper of Secrets/Great Unclean One/Lord of Change, the Avatar was also as Tough as the Great Unclean One at 8 vs 7 for the Bloodthirster/Keeper of Secrets/Lord of Change).
The only Greater Daemon who should be capable of going toe to toe with The Avatar of Khaine in combat is the Bloodthirster and that was often a coin flip to see who would come out on top.
Galef wrote: I wish GW did this with more sub-factions. Not EVERY snowflake faction should be able to pull forces big enough for large battles. Some are fine to be KT only, or used as supplements to bigger armies.
Define 'larger battles'. Because 20-40 dudes you see on typical 40K table is something pretty much any faction should cobble together, no matter how minor. Hell, even DW or GK, typically used as example by people who think gak pre-codex single squad rules were somehow the best (and they are wrong at that, as even these rules allowed full armies), usually deploy in company sized forces, much bigger than what you see in the game.
Eldar Corsairs in BFG can field cruisers and battleships with weapons that outperform standard Imperial naval weapons. Those kinds of ships require significant numbers of crew even accounting for Eldar ships needing less than comparable human ships. They are not poor rag tag bands using scrap weaponry. They are more like 3rd world warlords with their own private army and navy.
The question 'well whose fault is that?' comes to mind. GW literally had an entire Corsair codex, and at that one which would have taken barely any effort to convert to 8th/9th, and they chose to delete it outright.
But even if we ignore that, Corsairs had vehicles. They had their own versions of Venoms, Wave Serpents, War-Walkers etc.
Even if GW can't be arsed giving Corsairs their own units, they could easily have a list of vehicles that gain the ANHRATHE label if taken in that detachment (which would help flesh out a Corsair army).
Lorewise I had always thought of most the war-power for Corsairs was their Voidships and Fighters with small boarding actions after they had scuttled an enemy void ship. I didn't know they could take (D)Eldar vehicles but that's pretty neat. Your solution seems pretty reasonable.
The question 'well whose fault is that?' comes to mind. GW literally had an entire Corsair codex, and at that one which would have taken barely any effort to convert to 8th/9th, and they chose to delete it outright.
But even if we ignore that, Corsairs had vehicles. They had their own versions of Venoms, Wave Serpents, War-Walkers etc.
Even if GW can't be arsed giving Corsairs their own units, they could easily have a list of vehicles that gain the ANHRATHE label if taken in that detachment (which would help flesh out a Corsair army).
I guess that's fair. But in a way I am glad.
Corsairs were always meant to be a rag-tag fringe group of misfits from various Eldar factions, so them engaging in full sized 40k battles never seemed right (which can be said of multiple 40k faction atm). Corsairs only being a stand-alone force in KT sized engagements and supplementing CWE/DE in larger battles feels more accurate, at least to me.
Yriel's Eldritch Raiders coming to assist Iyanden when it was attacked by Nids was exactly that. And I think that's one of the largest showings of Eldar Corsairs in the current fluff
I wish GW did this with more sub-factions. Not EVERY snowflake faction should be able to pull forces big enough for large battles. Some are fine to be KT only, or used as supplements to bigger armies.
-
Absolutely spot on here. I would like to add a few other “factions” to this list…
Ugh. As if Ynnari wasn't bad enough, now we get to have another faction completely shacked to a special character with no generic equivalent.
But why would anyone have wanted to see the Corsair Prince, Void Seer or Baron return? Not like anyone who plays a faction of space elf pirates might want a heavily-customised HQ to lead them, right?
Knowing modern GW, the customizability of said HQ will be reduced to being able to choose between a Corsair Rifle, or a Corsair Melee Weapon and Corsair Pistol, both of which will have a boatload of diffrent strategems depending on the keyword of your choosing, all of which will suck except one.
Made me laugh.
If any unit should have all the options, war gear from every eldar anywhere, with “missing” relics from who knows when and where, it should be these dudes. Should be no end to customisation… but sure, they have their own weapons manufacturing and regimental standard issue weaponry. GW pissing on their own leg, again, imho… what a disappointment. I feel like it is the release of 8th Ed again. Bunk…
Galef wrote: Corsairs were always meant to be a rag-tag fringe group of misfits from various Eldar factions, so them engaging in full sized 40k battles never seemed right (which can be said of multiple 40k faction atm). Corsairs only being a stand-alone force in KT sized engagements and supplementing CWE/DE in larger battles feels more accurate, at least to me.
Be that as it may - the same arguments can be made for Custodes and Sisters of Silence, perhaps even Knights - but doesn't this seem like GW has gone out of their way to ensure that this can't be an army?
Aieirldari Corsairs could be another <Craftworld> alongside Ynnari and Harlequin, with the proviso being that you can only take an Autarch as your leader (perhaps Warlocks), Corsair Dumbnames as your Elites, regular Corsairs as your troops, and then various vehicles (War Walkers, Vypers, etc.) get to replace their <Craftworld> keyword with <Corsairs>.
Or we're all idiots, this is going to happen, but it's going to be in a DLC campaign book.
GW previews are generally good for 3 months forecasts. That said considering they've already started on codex previews I would wager we are into weeks to 1 month for the new book dropping. Perhaps a little longer but not vastly more .
Normal times a full reveal that wasn't prompted by a leak would be within 3 months of the stuff going on sale in some form (so a kit might only be part of a big box at that point),
might be a bit less certain in these messed up days, but probably not by much since they did such a large reveal
Discord leakers are saying the Codex is up as the next pre-order on Feb 19th. No word on which models will accompany it, or if they're split into several waves.
Iracundus wrote: Eldar Corsairs in BFG can field cruisers and battleships with weapons that outperform standard Imperial naval weapons. Those kinds of ships require significant numbers of crew even accounting for Eldar ships needing less than comparable human ships. They are not poor rag tag bands using scrap weaponry. They are more like 3rd world warlords with their own private army and navy.
That's a really good point. Given the size of BFG vessels, if a Corsair band can muster a few cruisers and a battleship, they absolutely have the resources for a full 40K-scale tabletop army.
Iracundus wrote: Eldar Corsairs in BFG can field cruisers and battleships with weapons that outperform standard Imperial naval weapons. Those kinds of ships require significant numbers of crew even accounting for Eldar ships needing less than comparable human ships. They are not poor rag tag bands using scrap weaponry. They are more like 3rd world warlords with their own private army and navy.
That's a really good point. Given the size of BFG vessels, if a Corsair band can muster a few cruisers and a battleship, they absolutely have the resources for a full 40K-scale tabletop army.
From reading some of the Gaunt's and Last Chancer's novels, I get a sense that most ships in the Imperium are under crewed. Or they have huge areas for cargo etc.
Ship's only need 2-3 shifts for actual operations. the vast majority of crew on a warship are for damage control and replacements for the dead.
TBH given the scope of weaponry in 40K, like most real warships 2 or 3 real hits will kill it anyway. So wasting crew on a ship becomes a lesson learned....
Wonder if we’ll see a model and rules return for baron whatshisname from the old dark eldar codex (the one that came when most of the current range was released).
N3p3nth3 wrote: Wonder if we’ll see a model and rules return for baron whatshisname from the old dark eldar codex (the one that came when most of the current range was released).
There's an easy way to tell:
Does the model in question already exist in the official DE range? - [YES/NO]
If YES - It's possible said model will get a resculpt, typically worse than the previous one and with no attempt to add additional options or make other improvements.
N3p3nth3 wrote: Wonder if we’ll see a model and rules return for baron whatshisname from the old dark eldar codex (the one that came when most of the current range was released).
There's an easy way to tell:
Does the model in question already exist in the official DE range? - [YES/NO]
If YES - It's possible said model will get a resculpt, typically worse than the previous one and with no attempt to add additional options or make other improvements.
if NO - It won't get a model or rules.
Well, Duke Sliscus (I downgraded him to a baron, oops) never had a model, but he’d be a prime candidate for a dark eldar/corsair special character. Though I don’t know how many such characters (those that had rules but were deleted due to a lack of models) have been brought back.
For any Harlequin players out there, there's currently a rumour that they'll be limited to the options on the sprue. Not much of an issue for Harlequin weapons, given the new rules, but I believe it will limit the number of Fusion Pistols a unit can take.
Well, Duke Sliscus (I downgraded him to a baron, oops) never had a model, but he’d be a prime candidate for a dark eldar/corsair special character. Though I don’t know how many such characters (those that had rules but were deleted due to a lack of models) have been brought back.
Well, Duke Sliscus (I downgraded him to a baron, oops) never had a model, but he’d be a prime candidate for a dark eldar/corsair special character. Though I don’t know how many such characters (those that had rules but were deleted due to a lack of models) have been brought back.
vipoid wrote: For any Harlequin players out there, there's currently a rumour that they'll be limited to the options on the sprue. Not much of an issue for Harlequin weapons, given the new rules, but I believe it will limit the number of Fusion Pistols a unit can take.
Hot take/unpopular opinion time, I'm fine with this change. It was so stupid and immersion-breaking to see spammed fusion in boats. It felt like a band-aid to make Harlequins competitive, and now that they've got lots of other ways to do that, they can take the band-aid off while still letting you keep 2 pistols in every squad (a respectable output) plus another troupe master with fusion if you feel like it. I feel for the people who converted lots of fusion guns, but it was always kind of gamey and really only doable in 8th/9th IIRC.
Huh, so I guess Phoenix Lords are the C'tan equivalent for Eldar then (except they have LoS). Surprised for them to have the no more than 3 wounds clause given that so far it's only been given to units that don't have access to LoS. If Phoenix Lords only have 6W base, I don't think it will be too bad, but anymore than that and it'll get kinda silly.
Grimskul wrote: Huh, so I guess Phoenix Lords are the C'tan equivalent for Eldar then (except they have LoS). Surprised for them to have the no more than 3 wounds clause given that so far it's only been given to units that don't have access to LoS. If Phoenix Lords only have 6W base, I don't think it will be too bad, but anymore than that and it'll get kinda silly.
I'm happy to see it. I bet PLs will have 6 wounds (isn't that what Drazhar has?), and it'll be an extra layer of protection for a unit that has been perpetually understatted basically since inception. I hope they're monsters, they deserve to be.
Grimskul wrote: Huh, so I guess Phoenix Lords are the C'tan equivalent for Eldar then (except they have LoS). Surprised for them to have the no more than 3 wounds clause given that so far it's only been given to units that don't have access to LoS. If Phoenix Lords only have 6W base, I don't think it will be too bad, but anymore than that and it'll get kinda silly.
I'm happy to see it. I bet PLs will have 6 wounds (isn't that what Drazhar has?), and it'll be an extra layer of protection for a unit that has been perpetually understatted basically since inception. I hope they're monsters, they deserve to be.
Oh don't get me wrong, they deserve their time in the spotlight, but I wasn't sure if the C'tan rule was the right way to go about it. They'll probably be pointed appropriately but we'll see how they do with their refresh. From what I heard, it seems like Jain Zar and Asurmen are going to be the auto-takes.
I hope the other phoenix lords get a gun that is basically two of the regular gun of its type and an extra-Killy melee weapon despite being ranged combatants…
I hope the other phoenix lords get a gun that is basically two of the regular gun of its type and an extra-Killy melee weapon despite being ranged combatants…
Well I'd expect Fuegan, Asurmen and Bahroth all to be shooty+killy as they all have unique ranged weapons plus melee weapons
vipoid wrote: For any Harlequin players out there, there's currently a rumour that they'll be limited to the options on the sprue. Not much of an issue for Harlequin weapons, given the new rules, but I believe it will limit the number of Fusion Pistols a unit can take.
Hot take/unpopular opinion time, I'm fine with this change. It was so stupid and immersion-breaking to see spammed fusion in boats. It felt like a band-aid to make Harlequins competitive, and now that they've got lots of other ways to do that, they can take the band-aid off while still letting you keep 2 pistols in every squad (a respectable output) plus another troupe master with fusion if you feel like it. I feel for the people who converted lots of fusion guns, but it was always kind of gamey and really only doable in 8th/9th IIRC.
Nah you could do it any other time, just nobody did because Fusion Pistols sucked.
Have fun supporting your Plague Marine unit entry though.
What really makes it brutal is he can move shoot move. Blast an elite squad then dive behind cover every turn. I’m hoping jetbikes have move shoot move with auto 6” move. Eldar will be a nightmare to deal with if that’s the case. If used correctly battle focus will be the best armor there is.
vipoid wrote: For any Harlequin players out there, there's currently a rumour that they'll be limited to the options on the sprue. Not much of an issue for Harlequin weapons, given the new rules, but I believe it will limit the number of Fusion Pistols a unit can take.
Hot take/unpopular opinion time, I'm fine with this change. It was so stupid and immersion-breaking to see spammed fusion in boats. It felt like a band-aid to make Harlequins competitive, and now that they've got lots of other ways to do that, they can take the band-aid off while still letting you keep 2 pistols in every squad (a respectable output) plus another troupe master with fusion if you feel like it. I feel for the people who converted lots of fusion guns, but it was always kind of gamey and really only doable in 8th/9th IIRC.
Nah you could do it any other time, just nobody did because Fusion Pistols sucked.
Have fun supporting your Plague Marine unit entry though.
I couldn't do that in 5th edition (only 2 fusion pistols per 5). But looks like in 7th it was possible.
Grimskul wrote: Huh, so I guess Phoenix Lords are the C'tan equivalent for Eldar then (except they have LoS). Surprised for them to have the no more than 3 wounds clause given that so far it's only been given to units that don't have access to LoS. If Phoenix Lords only have 6W base, I don't think it will be too bad, but anymore than that and it'll get kinda silly.
Makes sense to me. I never understood why the unique, named Aspect founders would be anything less than Primarch level threats.
warpedpig wrote: What really makes it brutal is he can move shoot move. Blast an elite squad then dive behind cover every turn. I’m hoping jetbikes have move shoot move with auto 6” move. Eldar will be a nightmare to deal with if that’s the case. If used correctly battle focus will be the best armor there is.
What I find interesting is that T'au are probably going to give a significant bonus to move-shoot-move Eldar.
Let me explain:
People's reaction to T'au super powerful shooting phase is going to elicit a hard knee-jerk reaction to INSIST tables have plenty of LOS blocking terrain.
And with loads of LOS blocking, comes ample opportunity to abuse move-shoot-move.
Side note, I'd be really surprised and disappointed if Jetbikes don't come with auto-6" BF. They had that exact thing for several editions prior to 8th. It's time to give it back.
They already have auto-6" Advance move, so it'd be super easy to extend that to apply to BF too. It would also reduce unnecessary rolling
Already printing my raging heroes Phoenix lord proxies LOL. No way I’m spending 30$+ a model for all them. I just play with friends so no one cares. Even printed ED209 from Robocop to use in an Imperial Guard list with custom rules. Makes the game more fun.
Turning up several pages and couple of days too late - but just to chip in I don't like the Corsairs. There's something uncanny valley about them.
I think its the fact they *look* like someone broke open their bitz box, and glued together parts from kabalites, guardians, rangers, harlequins and warlocks. Which is obviously intentional - but it just doesn't feel... like a natural thing in itself.
I had similar thoughts with the Tau Pathfinders - i.e. "here's a regular pathfinder box, and here are a load of third party heads and accessories we glued on to it".
Maybe in both cases its the paint scheme, that seems to really draw the eye to the various components rather than creating a unified whole.
Avatar looks faintly nuts - but I guess at some point you reach "just remove whatever I charge" so stop caring.
Tyel wrote: Turning up several pages and couple of days too late - but just to chip in I don't like the Corsairs. There's something uncanny valley about them.
I think its the fact they *look* like someone broke open their bitz box, and glued together parts from kabalites, guardians, rangers, harlequins and warlocks. Which is obviously intentional - but it just doesn't feel... like a natural thing in itself.
I get the same vibe. I think it's the contrast between the standardized bits and the individualized bits. They all have the kabalite feet/calves and craftworld thighs. This suggests a uniform and higher level of organization. The torsos and heads are all unique suggesting a random collection of individuals which I think is probably the better way to go for a bunch of pirates. This leaves me wondering what the design brief for them was. "Make them all different because they're wild and crazy with all kinds of different equipment, but make sure they're identifiable as a cohesive force on the tabletop."
Pile of Harlequin-related leaks from Bolter & Chainsword:
Quins:
3++ on advance if moving more than 8" for 2CP
No access to fight last
Webway Gate still worthless
Only 3 Warlord Traits, and no more CP regen
No more teleport when charged
No way to get around S4 in melee
Still have stratagems on Fall Back
All clown secondaries are "very bad"
Advance and Charge still alive
Fall back and shoot and charge also still a thing
Fight Twice on Players
Murderous entrance capped at 3 damage
Twilight Fang is same as before, but meh compared to regular weapons
Harlequin Warlord allows Yncarne without penalty
No benefit fo multiple caress/embrace
"They have access to most CW strats. And have some unique. Nothing new beside the weapons strat”
SUBFACTIONS:
"Light. If being shot from more than 12", 1-3 hit rolls always fail. And advance and shoot."
"Twilight. +1 attack when charging and +2" to consolidation move."
"Dark. Fight when killed, improve ap by 1."
LUCK OF THE LAUGHING GOD:
"4 dice + 3d6 (if any double, 1d6 instead) of dices to reroll per BR."
"No no no, my wording was confusing. You get up to +3 dice for a total of 7."
LotLG is free rerolls "Works on anything the command reroll can reroll"
No limitation per unit/phase on use
SHADOWSEER:
Shadowseer has -1 to wound and -1A auras
TROUPE MASTER:
access to 5+ Wound Rolls ignore invulns
No Chapter Master upgrade for TM
TROUPES:
up to 10 man : up to 2 fusion, 11 : up to 4
No benefit fo multiple caress/embrace
13ppm, 5pts for each weapon (including fusion)
4 attacks base
Lead player now has 2W
SKYWEAVERS:
Glaive is +2 -2 dmg2
Bikers get -1 to be hit and no hit rerolls
Bikes are the same cost as before
Skyweavers T4 3W
VOIDWEAVERS:
can be squadroned: "-1 to be hit, no hit reroll, Prismatic canon : -Focus : Heavy 2 s12 ap4 2d3 dmg -Dispertion : 3d3 s5 ap3 dmg1 blast"
SOLITAIRE:
Solitaire has access to -1 to hit and no hit rerolls
"No more relics can be taken. s+2 ap3 dmg2. All weapons keywords. Oh and T4 S4"
-Death Jester: Death jester
Cannon 30" assault 3 S6 -2ap 2dmg, ignore look out sir, shuriken
-Death Jester Pivotal Roles:
Death jester
1. Hit roll of 6 counts as 3 additional hits
2. If shot hits anything but vehicle or monster
a. movement reduce by 2
b. no overwatch or defend
3. No cover, 4+ to wound is 1 MW in addition to normal damage
Phoenix Lord (Baharroth) has ability to teleport to anywhere outside 9" of enemy for consolidate or battle focus
Spider Exarch power clarified to teleport elsewhere on the table
Death Spinners auto-hitting was NOT in the playtest version, was a recent change
Yvraine gets transhuman, reroll psychic tests from gyrinx, Deny 2, 6s to hit do 2MWs and dont go further, weapon damage 2, no more +1 to cast
Spiritseer being "psyker lieutenant" means giving reroll ones to wounds as well as casting
Webway strike works for infantry, bikes, and also harlequins
No transhuman or -1 damage strats for eldar
Runes of Witnessing strat no longer exists
-Warp Spooders have a datasheet ability that let's them move 6" the first time each turn they're targeted for a charge
-Exarch Powers:
1. Once per battle, make a terrain piece which has an enemy unit in difficult terrain and on a 2+ does d3 mortals
2. First time the deep strike get an additional shot with the spinners
3. Once per battle, instead of making a battle focus move, set them up anywhere on the battle field 9" away from enemy
-According to playtest codex leaker recieved, Warp Spooder weapons were NOT flamers and remained 18ppm
-Shadowseer Pivotal Rolls:
1. Any enemy unit within 6" -1 attack
2. Select unit within 12" stop auras from that unit
3. Units within 6" are counted to be an additional 6" away from enemy units for shooting range
There’s a theme here for Eldar in 9th. Insane movement abilities. They will be a nightmare to pin down. And they hit extremely hard. Going to be a lot of fun mastering them. You should be able to overload one part of the board per turn. Annihilate what’s there. Then take cover or disappear until the next turn to repeat.
warpedpig wrote: There’s a theme here for Eldar in 9th. Insane movement abilities. They will be a nightmare to pin down. And they hit extremely hard. Going to be a lot of fun mastering them. You should be able to overload one part of the board per turn. Annihilate what’s there. Then take cover or disappear until the next turn to repeat.
Which is what move shoot move has generally led. Army just deletes stuff immune to reprisal. And 9e terrain rules makes this even more powerful.
Slow armies are basically screwed if they don't army wide basically shoot out of LOS.
Well that article on Phoenix Lords was absolutely worthless. Also, going to be a shame to have good rules for resin kits I have absolutely zero desire to buy.
bullyboy wrote: Well that article on Phoenix Lords was absolutely worthless. Also, going to be a shame to have good rules for resin kits I have absolutely zero desire to buy.
Yah, it was a little light on hard info.
Phoenix lords buff their aspects. Big shock.
If they all hand out ObSec, that could be quite nice. If your reapers are standing on one, it’s a nice little buff, but not anything to build around. Other aspects would gain more from it.
l0k1 wrote: Warp Spooders sound fun and annoying, but man I don't want to pick up any more finecrap lol
Between the Autarch's warp spider generator, and the corsair's version of a spider, I'm hoping someone out there kitbashes a cool way to do a warp spider. (And hopefully the former's bits will end up on ebay or somewhere for a decent price.)
bullyboy wrote: Well that article on Phoenix Lords was absolutely worthless. Also, going to be a shame to have good rules for resin kits I have absolutely zero desire to buy.
There is a high probability they want to clear up stock for the full refresh in 10th edition.
The 3D files that will be made will be awesome. I think I’ve got the raging heroes Phoenix lord proxies and they are pretty nice. I don’t play in tournaments so I don’t care. As the Mandalorian would say
l0k1 wrote:Warp Spooders sound fun and annoying, but man I don't want to pick up any more finecrap lol
Artel W makes some very nice not warp spiders.
bullyboy wrote:Well that article on Phoenix Lords was absolutely worthless. Also, going to be a shame to have good rules for resin kits I have absolutely zero desire to buy.
Not totally worthless. It points to why Dire Avengers are moving to elite. It's so Asurmen can give them obsec.
Warp Spiders seem like a solid option, the movement on charge is a nice way of keeping them alive and promotes their speed although I am skeptical that it will be meaningfully impactful.
l0k1 wrote:Warp Spooders sound fun and annoying, but man I don't want to pick up any more finecrap lol
Artel W makes some very nice not warp spiders.
bullyboy wrote:Well that article on Phoenix Lords was absolutely worthless. Also, going to be a shame to have good rules for resin kits I have absolutely zero desire to buy.
Not totally worthless. It points to why Dire Avengers are moving to elite. It's so Asurmen can give them obsec.
I've been considering Artel W for the Warp Spiders and Fire Dragons for a long time now. Since they're not getting the plastic treatment I may finally pull the trigger. I was really hoping GW would do plastic Swooping Hawks this batch too.
The movement shenanigans with Warp Spiders look pretty fun, it's nice having an anti-charge unit. The only other ones that spring to mind are the Grav tanks that can give -2" to enemy charges and free disengage with a Stratagem. And of course Custodes can use tanglefoot grenades.
I have a couple of support platforms. Maybe I should get a third and make D-Cannons. They were a lot of fun in Dawn of War...
I know it's not the major point of the video but:
Flayed Skull Venom - super-light transport that sacrifices armour for speed, in a subfaction that emphasises speed even more - M18"
Eldar Night Spinner with Star Engines - Eldar heavy support tank that doesn't trade armour for speed - M19"
I've been considering Artel W for the Warp Spiders and Fire Dragons for a long time now. Since they're not getting the plastic treatment I may finally pull the trigger. I was really hoping GW would do plastic Swooping Hawks this batch too.
I've got their dragons, scorpions and warlocks. All are fantastic casts. The best resin minis I've ever handled. No flash. No mold lines. I had a couple bubbles on some of the scorpion parts where the vents meet the part and the warlock staffs/spears were bent, but that's it. When I ordered of the site in December it said 30-60 days for delivery, but I got my models in just 28 days. If that timeline bothers you, there are importers on ebay that can get you the models more quickly.
Latest White Dwarf plopped on my mat earlier. I cleaned it up, and it has some Stratagems for Altansar
What do you think? Should Uncle Grotsnik share them with all the good boys and girls?
Whaddya mean no, you rotter.
Anyways.
Craftworld Attribute - Altansar, Grim Survivors
Each time a model with this attribute makes a melee attack after it or it’s unit made a charge move, was charged, or made a heroic intervention, improve the AP characteristic of that attack by 1
Each time a combat attrition test is taken for a unit blah blah, add 1 to that Combat Attrition test.
Defiant to the Last - Epic Deed Stratagem
Use this Stratagem at the start of your command phase. Select one Altansar unit from your army. Until the start of your next Command phase, that unit gains Objective Secured
2 Co
Inexhaustible Hatred - Battle Tactic Stratagem
Use this Stratagem in the Fight phase, when an Altansar unit from your army is selected to fight. Until the end of the phase, each time a model in that unit makes a melee attack against a Daemon unit (excluding Vehicle and Monster units) add 1 to that attack’s wound roll.
2 CP
Thrice-Layered Mat Wards - Wargear Stratagem
Use this Stratagem in your opponent’s Psychic phase, when an Altansar unit from your army would suffer a mortal wound. Until the end of the phase, each time a model in that unit would lose a wound, roll one D6; on a 4+, that wound is not lost.
1 CP (seems a bit of a bargain?)
Withering Volleys - Wargear Stratagem
Use this Stratagem in your Shooting phase, when an Altansar unit from your army is selected to shoot. Until the end of the phase, each time a model in that unit makes an attack with an Aeldari Missile Launcher or Reaper Launcher, improve the Armour Penetration characteristic of that attack by 1. If that unit has the Dark Reapers keyword, this Stratagem costs 2 CP, otherwise it costs 1 CP
Warlord Traits
I know, I know. I’m too good to you folk. But I like to see your smiling, cherubic faces.
1. Master Rune of Mat Warding (look I think it’s funny, so it’s funny. ok?)
Warlord can Deny The Witch, twice if their already a Psyker. And they can re-roll Deny The Witch tests taken by that Warlord.
2. A Beacon of Light in the Darkness
In your command phase, nominate one friendly Altansar unit within 9”. Until your next Command phase, that unit can perform actions and shoot without the action failing, that unit can still perform an action in a turn in which it Advanced or Fell Back.
3. Weaver of the Blade Storm
In your Command phase, select on friendly Altansar Core unit within 9” of this Warlord. Until the start of your next Command phase makes an attack with a Shuriken weapon an I modified hit roll of a 6 automatically wounds the target.
Relics
Saviour Stone
At the start of the battle round, when you make a Strands of Fate roll, if the bearer is on the battlefield you can either.
1. Increase the result of one of the dice you rolled by 1 (max 6)
2. Decrease the result of one of the dice you rolled by 1 (min 1)
Elblem of the Broken Chain
In your Command phase, select one friendly Altansar Core unit within 6” of the bearer. Until the start of your next Command phase, that unit can re-roll Advance and Charges rolls.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Latest White Dwarf plopped on my mat earlier. I cleaned it up, and it has some Stratagems for Altansar
Craftworld Attribute - Altansar, Grim Survivors
Each time a model with this attribute makes a melee attack after it or it’s unit made a charge move, was charged, or made a heroic intervention, improve the AP characteristic of that attack by 21
AP improves by 21? Seems pretty reasonable for 9th edition
It's a shame that none of that would fit into the Codex and had to be cut out for DLC...
vipoid wrote: Flayed Skull Venom - super-light transport that sacrifices armour for speed, in a subfaction that emphasises speed even more - M18" Eldar Night Spinner with Star Engines - Eldar heavy support tank that doesn't trade armour for speed - M19"
I'm more weirded out that it's +3", rather than +4" to go to a flat 20".
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: There’s also a bunch of background which I’m yet to read, as I’ve been doing my Cross Stitch tonight instead.
Care to share? I'm interested if there is any actual concrete expansion of Altansar's background. Ever since they were first mentioned as being brought back out of the Eye of Terror (in the aftermath of the Eye of Terror campaign), there has been virtually nothing substantial beyond them rarely taking off their helmets and others not trusting them. Is there anything on how they managed to survive in the Eye so long? I hope GW doesn't just say they are broody and sullen for "unknown reasons", which after so many years just comes off to me as lack of effort and lazy writing. Sure not everything has to be laid out but if too much is just waved off as unknown and mysterious, it gets tiresome.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: There’s also a bunch of background which I’m yet to read, as I’ve been doing my Cross Stitch tonight instead.
Care to share? I'm interested if there is any actual concrete expansion of Altansar's background. Ever since they were first mentioned as being brought back out of the Eye of Terror (in the aftermath of the Eye of Terror campaign), there has been virtually nothing substantial beyond them rarely taking off their helmets and others not trusting them. Is there anything on how they managed to survive in the Eye so long? I hope GW doesn't just say they are broody and sullen for "unknown reasons", which after so many years just comes off to me as lack of effort and lazy writing. Sure not everything has to be laid out but if too much is just waved off as unknown and mysterious, it gets tiresome.
These photos have been floating around. Some snippets of more in there
There is still not a whole lot of concrete background there, at least compared to what was already known before. The layered warding is basically the old custom Craftworld trait Warding Runes, only now it is a stratagem giving 4+++ against MW instead of an always on trait giving 5+++ against MW. There is allusion to some sort of battle with Maugan Ra closing off Altansar's Webway portals (were daemons coming through?).
Now we need to see what the rest of the Phoenix Lords can do. And what is their points cost going to be. They pretty much tripled the offensive power of Maugan Ra with this update so seeing What the other lords can do will be interesting. Aren’t we supposed to be getting a Phoenix lord for shining spears and a few others ?
warpedpig wrote: Now we need to see what the rest of the Phoenix Lords can do. And what is their points cost going to be. They pretty much tripled the offensive power of Maugan Ra with this update so seeing What the other lords can do will be interesting. Aren’t we supposed to be getting a Phoenix lord for shining spears and a few others ?
They said six total, so that's just the existing ones. Maugan Ra, Fuegan, Baharroth, Asurmen, Jain Zar, and Karandras.
bullyboy wrote: Well that article on Phoenix Lords was absolutely worthless. Also, going to be a shame to have good rules for resin kits I have absolutely zero desire to buy.
Yah, it was a little light on hard info.
Phoenix lords buff their aspects. Big shock.
If they all hand out ObSec, that could be quite nice. If your reapers are standing on one, it’s a nice little buff, but not anything to build around. Other aspects would gain more from it.
The vibe I got is that I think they were kind of embarrassed by the state Phoenix Lords. I had a feeling they did not want to talk about them so they did not have to link the models! (Because it is pretty embarrassing!)
Its so glaring when you compare maugun ra and jain zar to the others..
warpedpig wrote: Please stop buying overpriced GW minis. Just get a 3D printer and use the many amazing proxies.
So point some that aren't just straight copies of gw design by talentless losers like tons of stl files are. Only terrain has largely good designs. Miniatures have tons of talentless losers copying gw and i support only people who have actual talent.
Raging heroes released an awesome batch of files that were 15$ and had great Phoenix lords and other models. And you make fun of poor 3D knock off files of GW stuff but there’s a lot of those that are actually extremely good. You have to just be coping hard to think that GW overpriced models are special in any way. A lot of the after market stuff is superior to GW. And you won’t need to wait 25 damn years for new models
You suffer from Stockholm syndrome. You’ve learned to love massively overpaying for models and waiting decades for updates. And you reward this with your hard earned money lol.
Luckily there’s way more people getting into 3D printing and it’s gonna take over.
This seems like a weird and rather sudden tangent for this thread, so much so that I think the poster who caused this had too many tabs open, and meant to put this in the pricing thread.
tneva82 wrote: So point some that aren't just straight copies of gw design by talentless losers like tons of stl files are.
Don't.... don't be that guy. There are so many STLs out there that are indistinguishable from GW's own kits, making those that modelled them far from 'talentless'.
We've had enough "Recasts are super low quality! Why would anyone get them?" nonsense over the years. Let's not transfer that to 3D prints where things are, arguably, even higher quality.
warpedpig wrote: Raging heroes released an awesome batch of files that were 15$ and had great Phoenix lords and other models. And you make fun of poor 3D knock off files of GW stuff but there’s a lot of those that are actually extremely good. You have to just be coping hard to think that GW overpriced models are special in any way. A lot of the after market stuff is superior to GW. And you won’t need to wait 25 damn years for new models
You suffer from Stockholm syndrome. You’ve learned to love massively overpaying for models and waiting decades for updates. And you reward this with your hard earned money lol.
Luckily there’s way more people getting into 3D printing and it’s gonna take over.
I mean I can write you a list of complaints about Hero's Infinite's typical sculpting woes.... They are by no means the worst, but for a firm that's been in the market for as long as they have and for a firm that's been doing 3D printing there's more than a few errors that slip their net that shouldn't. Heck people talk about mono-pose with GW - HI recycle a lot of their poses between model lines.
We've had enough enough "Recasts are super low quality! Why would anyone get them?" nonsense over the years. Let's not transfer that to 3D prints where things are, arguably, even higher quality.
The amount of cope over recasts and 3D printing is absolutely insane.
I will say from personal experience that I have had recasts of superior quality to FW kits (which isn't hard given most FW kits are utter garbage in terms of quality control). With recasting now a bit more stealthy (because of the efforts by GW to try and shut it down, which have been a complete failure and simply force the recasters to operate a bit more carefully), the same people have turned their attention to attacking 3d prints. I can't really understand the mentality; it feels like a blend of consoomer brain (i.e., an inability to not understand they themselves and the brand they like are separate things) or just head in the sand mentality, "Things will always remain the same! GW made figures will always be the best on the market and nothing can ever change that!".
warpedpig wrote: Please stop buying overpriced GW minis. Just get a 3D printer and use the many amazing proxies.
Are you seriously popping into a "after 25 years, we are updating the eldar range" thread and asking people to just flat out not buy GW miniatures, on a miniature wargaming forum mostly about GW?
Given the posts from this user throughout this thread, I'm reasonably sure they're a low-quality troll - which is OK, until people quote them.
That last WHC article was a bit of a damp squib, wasn't it? Lots of tell, not a lot of show.
Agree wholeheartedly. Spend your money how you please. Only low quality appears on GWs end tho from the army I bought.
I could try some sort of inversed Altansar scheme.
I think an issue I have with painting Eldar is that they tend to be quite monochrome. Its hard to make a bright colour pop if its making about 80% of every model.
Tyel wrote: I could try some sort of inversed Altansar scheme.
I think an issue I have with painting Eldar is that they tend to be quite monochrome. Its hard to make a bright colour pop if its making about 80% of every model.
For that reason I usually paint them with a different colour for the "mail" and the plates.
For example my own Craftworld looks something like this for the guardians:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: You really do seem the sort to take a bottle from the Offy into the pub, and then whine when you’re asked to leave.
Its even worse, hes the type to take a bottle to the pub, but then will whine when the pub goes out of business because he has nowhere left to drink.
There is no game to play with cheap knockoffs without GW. Just look at what happened to WHFB after GW killed it, the community fractured and scattered across a dozen different games from other publishers and various attempts at community editions that have since largely faded into obscurity. The main reason to mess around with GW games is because its convenient - you can find players anywhere and everywhere you go and they are all using the same rules system, whereas other games are more localized and regional and theres often various degrees of house rules associated with them. If GW goes out of business because of some misguided crusade to get people to stop buying their minis (which, btw, never gonna happen, massive waste of time better spent elsewhere), all the convenience of 40k goes away and it becomes just another game - and not a particularly good one at that. That being the case, you're better off just cutting out the middle man/cutting to the chase and quitting 40k and playing warmachine or flames of war or sludge or turnip or whatever instead of doing whatever it is you think you're doing with 40k.
Tyel wrote: I could try some sort of inversed Altansar scheme.
I think an issue I have with painting Eldar is that they tend to be quite monochrome. Its hard to make a bright colour pop if its making about 80% of every model.
For that reason I usually paint them with a different colour for the "mail" and the plates.
For example my own Craftworld looks something like this for the guardians:
That's a nice color scheme, I like the simplicity of mono color mail and secondary color for shoulders. I've done similar with my wraithguard in the past.
warpedpig wrote: Please stop buying overpriced GW minis. Just get a 3D printer and use the many amazing proxies.
Sure, I'll just drop £££ on an over-priced 3D printer that can sit in my small hobby space (that I share with a child) and use it once in a blue moon. A box of Guardians ain't going to break my budget, get the feck out...
Urgg. I hate no LOS weapons. Those D-Cannons plus Night Spinners make me think it's going to be Eldar poking my backline and blasting me when I step onto their territory. Feel likes aircraft will be necessary to get behind them fast enough.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: There’s also a bunch of background which I’m yet to read, as I’ve been doing my Cross Stitch tonight instead.
Care to share? I'm interested if there is any actual concrete expansion of Altansar's background. Ever since they were first mentioned as being brought back out of the Eye of Terror (in the aftermath of the Eye of Terror campaign), there has been virtually nothing substantial beyond them rarely taking off their helmets and others not trusting them. Is there anything on how they managed to survive in the Eye so long? I hope GW doesn't just say they are broody and sullen for "unknown reasons", which after so many years just comes off to me as lack of effort and lazy writing. Sure not everything has to be laid out but if too much is just waved off as unknown and mysterious, it gets tiresome.
There is 8 pages of lore in the WD - anything specific you want to know?
* How they survived - just the same rumous , but 2/3 of the Craftworld is sealed off with Daemonic incursions being watched from specific areas such as the Fortress of the Blazing Suns, Chamber of the Crimson Spear etc.
The Craftworld is heavily militarised and lots of Dark Reapers or Swooping Hawks, no revlsion for Wraith warriors, all are resigned to the fact they will be put in one. They have dropped many rituals and rites in favour of pragmatic procedures. There are no survivors of the time that Maugan lived on the world.
l0k1 wrote:Warp Spooders sound fun and annoying, but man I don't want to pick up any more finecrap lol
Artel W makes some very nice not warp spiders.
bullyboy wrote:Well that article on Phoenix Lords was absolutely worthless. Also, going to be a shame to have good rules for resin kits I have absolutely zero desire to buy.
Not totally worthless. It points to why Dire Avengers are moving to elite. It's so Asurmen can give them obsec.
I've been considering Artel W for the Warp Spiders and Fire Dragons for a long time now. Since they're not getting the plastic treatment I may finally pull the trigger. I was really hoping GW would do plastic Swooping Hawks this batch too.
The movement shenanigans with Warp Spiders look pretty fun, it's nice having an anti-charge unit. The only other ones that spring to mind are the Grav tanks that can give -2" to enemy charges and free disengage with a Stratagem. And of course Custodes can use tanglefoot grenades.
A bit late and I've only got the Artel W Warp Spiders, but they are really incredible miniatures. Easily the best resin miniatures I have ever put together.....no flash or mould lines, really crisp and go together super easily. They are far superior to any FW or other resin miniature I have ever owned. At first I was a bit bummed GW wasn't putting out new Warp Spiders, but after getting my hands on these I have a hard time believing they could make better miniatures. I would very highly recommend picking up some if you like the look and want to use the unit.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: There’s also a bunch of background which I’m yet to read, as I’ve been doing my Cross Stitch tonight instead.
Care to share? I'm interested if there is any actual concrete expansion of Altansar's background. Ever since they were first mentioned as being brought back out of the Eye of Terror (in the aftermath of the Eye of Terror campaign), there has been virtually nothing substantial beyond them rarely taking off their helmets and others not trusting them. Is there anything on how they managed to survive in the Eye so long? I hope GW doesn't just say they are broody and sullen for "unknown reasons", which after so many years just comes off to me as lack of effort and lazy writing. Sure not everything has to be laid out but if too much is just waved off as unknown and mysterious, it gets tiresome.
There is 8 pages of lore in the WD - anything specific you want to know?
* How they survived - just the same rumous , but 2/3 of the Craftworld is sealed off with Daemonic incursions being watched from specific areas such as the Fortress of the Blazing Suns, Chamber of the Crimson Spear etc.
The Craftworld is heavily militarised and lots of Dark Reapers or Swooping Hawks, no revlsion for Wraith warriors, all are resigned to the fact they will be put in one. They have dropped many rituals and rites in favour of pragmatic procedures. There are no survivors of the time that Maugan lived on the world.
So the Craftworld is still mostly sealed off and/or ruined despite having escaped the Eye of Terror? If all go into Wraith Warriors, who goes into the Infinity Circuits? What rituals and rites have they dropped?
Any mention of any relationship between Maugan Ra and Altansar past or present? Clearly he was sentimental enough to go into the Eye and help rescue them.
GW developed the game, setting and aesthetic. They put out the models. Then 3rd parties come along and make their take.
Now, you do you. Your money, your time, your choice.
Me? I’m perfectly happy to pay GW my money, because they are the source. Sure their prices are higher, but then they put in the most effort.
Some one else doing rip off models? They’ve……done the minimum, by comparison. Remove GW, or remove 40K. Where is the market for those knock off merchants?
Again though, and this is important. You do you. It’s your money and your choice.
Just know there’ll be folk considering you a cheapskate.
warpedpig wrote: Please stop buying overpriced GW minis. Just get a 3D printer and use the many amazing proxies.
So point some that aren't just straight copies of gw design by talentless losers like tons of stl files are. Only terrain has largely good designs. Miniatures have tons of talentless losers copying gw and i support only people who have actual talent.
Let's see... just from the Patreons I back, you have Labyrinth Models, Papsikels, Artisan Guild, Anvil Digital Forge, Avatars of War, Twin Goddess Miniatures, Red Nebular and Titan Forge Miniatures. Arguably The Makers Cult, too, but those make GW proxies.
It is a hobby unto itself, though.
Do we have any inkling if GW is planning a combat patrol with the new stuff in the near-ish future?
Last rumor I heard for the combat patrol is:
Combat Patrol :
and the new combat patrol has guardians, farseer, jetbikes and
a wraithlord so that's a great start too, just guardians are new
No idea if there might be a launch box or anything like that. I’d not expect one, but that’s just me guessing.
Huh, funny, i would've expected them to toss the new Autarch in there
(not really)
