I don't know if its the type of resin or a chemical coating they use in their process but FW resin has always been very different for me compared to other companies.
It's a shame since I love FW designs but I really, really hate working with the stuff.
For those wondering "why not (Aspect)?", there will be some internal reason. I recall a Jes interview where he said he was told there where three 'slots' dedicated to the last release Eldar had; two were the Wraithknight and the flyer, so which did he want to do? He chose the jetbikes. I can't recall if he said why. Perhaps he thought they were the ones most showing their age. Perhaps he was proudest of the new ones. But the point is, there was a limit. There is no conspiracy other than production slots.
The Spears and Guardians really needed the update most, the one as an ancient Troops option and the other for now looking outdated on their Harley's when the rest of the army -the whole race, really - is zooming round on crotch rockets.
Rangers are still good models but do suffer from the resin 'brewers droop' on their rifles.
Reapers? Maybe it was felt their aesthetic needed the biggest update, bring them to sleek elf rather than menacing triangle. Maybe sales figures influenced it. Maybe there have been more complaints about bendy guns like the Rangers.
And the Avatar ... well, I went Forgeworld and I doubt I'm alone in that. Not good for what is MEANT to be THE centrepiece (Epic imports aside).
The rest will come. When is another matter, but I can't say I don't get a logic behind the choices.
I think some, like the Guardians and the Avatar, were likely certain updates because they are very core to the army. Yes the Aspect Warriors are also a core component, but you can safely say most armies are going to have guardians in them; whilst the Avatar is one of the big showy models for the army.
After that there's likely just what designers have worked on, it might be that some of the models are chosen simply because they got finished first or were already being worked on as side projects etc...
There could also be other things, eg the Warp Spiders might be coming with a campaign book that doesn't just upgrade the models ,but unveils their named special character as part of the story. So they might be "ready" now but won't be released until later because that's how GW has chosen to pace out the release.
Of course there are abnormalities - eg there have been ample times for Tyranids to get their last few finecast models into resin and yet its not happened (yet). And sometimes things jump the gun - eg no one predicted GW would release Ossiarchs before Luminieth or the Shadow Aelves - the latter two being things that had been hinted at heavily in the lore since day 1 whilst the Ossiarchs were basically not mentioned at all until a few months before release.
There’s another thing that needs to be considered when factoring out how many new kits get made at a time; the availability of new sculpts. Specifically, how many sculptors can turn out how many minis of acceptable quality in time to be made into kits for a given release date? Also, the odd way GW farms out projects to whoever wants to do it rather than scheduling them: If Jes Goodwin is one-man-banding it again it could simply be that the new Aspect sculpts are just not done yet.
Dysartes wrote: Dammit, now I have two more Epic Avatars I need to find...
Can't believe I don't think I ever saw the '95 or '04 ones before.
For me the ones that surprised me were the 97 Avatar. For some reason I don't remember that. The '95 one I remember seeing as it was the same era of Epic that had the BIG Hive Tyrants and Greater Daemons.
drbored wrote: TBH, I have a feeling that the earlier leaks may have mistook the 'Warp Spider' stuff as simply the warp spider upgrades that the Autarch can get. This sort of thing happens with rumors when someone doesn't have all the information and is going off of maybe quick glances at pictures alone. We may see the Corsairs this Monday, or they may save that for even further down the line. Like, this Monday could be a closer look at the Shining Spears and Avatar or something, with Corsairs saved for a week later.
The last Path of the Preview did say we are getting a new "reveal" this upcoming Monday, so I think it will likely be another new kit or a reveal of the full Corsair kit (which would be really strange to tease a single model and then show the full squad 4 days later). I don't think they will show the Avatar or Shining Spears, as the follow up article to the LVO event showed all their options. I suppose the reveal could be "you have a codex coming!" but I don't think they would do something like that, I think everyone knows there is a codex coming.
I'm crossing my fingers for another Aspect in plastic, but would be happy with a full reveal of the Corsair kit also.
I’m not sure where this photos from originally but I saw it on Facebook:
So it’s probably the rest of the corsairs, or the codex on Monday.
To be honest, as much as I love the models we’re getting, I’m a little bit disappointed with the size of the release. I would argue it isn’t ‘massive’ at all. There’s still a bunch of models older than I am, still 4 finecast Aspects, and even things like the Vyper that could do with at least a sprue recut. I think it’s 10 kits including the Corsairs, Orks just got 6 kits just for Beastsnagga stuff as well as a few easy build kits and the Kommandos. Necrons got a massive new range. Space Marines have obviously had a lot more kits than that recently. I really hope it’s not too long before we get some more Aspects redone.
I feel like there will be both some small releases (We've seen it happen with Banshees and Jain) as well as a Wave 2. When the new Chaos came out a few years back, it was odd to see no new lord/warpsmith/Chosen. Well, now that's coming, and I bet they'll do the same with the other aspects. It just takes time. Also, I think it's been said that they plan to phase out all of the finecast stuff by 2025. What I hope is that we do get the missing aspects + Shadow Specters, and maybe some new stuff al a the new Sniper bikes. I'd love to see some kind of hella awesome Fire Dragon Vypers, and of course new Dire Avengers and Asurmen.
I think it will come, but it's just going to be split.
I think the Vyper actually has aged super well. What we need is new swooping hawks. Fire dragons. Warp spiders. Also could use an Eldar open topped troop transport so we can deliver banshees or do drive bys with our weak fire dragons. Also the rest of the Phoenix lords
Vyper could use a better weapon sprue. The original had a plasma cannon.
warpedpig wrote:Vyper could use a better weapon sprue. The original had a plasma cannon.
On release, I'm pretty sure the Vyper only came with the shuriken cannon on the sprue, and you had to Mail order metal heavy weapons to replace it with.
According to the GW site, it comes with the current plastic Eldar heavy weapons sprue. meaning the starcannon (which the Eldar Plasma Cannon evolved into) is available.
Assuming it is still an option in the rules, though, it could do with a part to upgrade the twin shuriken catapults to an underslung shuriken cannon, though.
DarkStarSabre wrote:For me the ones that surprised me were the 97 Avatar. For some reason I don't remember that. The '95 one I remember seeing as it was the same era of Epic that had the BIG Hive Tyrants and Greater Daemons.
I remembered the '97 one from the Epic 40,000 relaunch (and because I have one, somewhere). Didn't recall seeing the '95 anywhere - and he's pricey on eBay at present. Don't see the '04 one (presumably from alongside Epic: Armageddon) available anywhere, though.
IMHO, GW should focus on outdated sculpts over resin models that have been released in metal in the past. Obviously, there's more than a little overlap between the two, but sculpts such as the Swooping Hawks have aged extremely well, and are still available on ebay in their non-finecast forms. In comparison, the best Dark Reaper sculpt before this new one was to my knowledge finecast-exclusive, so it makes sense to me why it would be updated first.
That still means Warp Spiders should be next on the list, though.
Flipsiders wrote: IMHO, GW should focus on outdated sculpts over resin models that have been released in metal in the past. Obviously, there's more than a little overlap between the two, but sculpts such as the Swooping Hawks have aged extremely well, and are still available on ebay in their non-finecast forms. In comparison, the best Dark Reaper sculpt before this new one was to my knowledge finecast-exclusive, so it makes sense to me why it would be updated first.
That still means Warp Spiders should be next on the list, though.
All of the finecast Aspect Warriors were released in metal first.
Flipsiders wrote: IMHO, GW should focus on outdated sculpts over resin models that have been released in metal in the past. Obviously, there's more than a little overlap between the two, but sculpts such as the Swooping Hawks have aged extremely well, and are still available on ebay in their non-finecast forms. In comparison, the best Dark Reaper sculpt before this new one was to my knowledge finecast-exclusive, so it makes sense to me why it would be updated first.
That still means Warp Spiders should be next on the list, though.
All of the finecast Aspect Warriors were released in metal first.
Were the last finecast Dark Reaper sculpts ever in metal? From my understanding, the "latest" metal set was the Punisher-looking getup they had at the dawn of third edition.
Flipsiders wrote: IMHO, GW should focus on outdated sculpts over resin models that have been released in metal in the past. Obviously, there's more than a little overlap between the two, but sculpts such as the Swooping Hawks have aged extremely well, and are still available on ebay in their non-finecast forms. In comparison, the best Dark Reaper sculpt before this new one was to my knowledge finecast-exclusive, so it makes sense to me why it would be updated first.
That still means Warp Spiders should be next on the list, though.
All of the finecast Aspect Warriors were released in metal first.
Were the last finecast Dark Reaper sculpts ever in metal? From my understanding, the "latest" metal set was the Punisher-looking getup they had at the dawn of third edition.
Not to keep that topic going, but I'd love to see a new Spider Exarch who is on a tall piece of ruin...which I think was in the 3rd edition codex. There was also another cool picture of an Exarch crouching together with a Scorpion and they seemed like a cop-duo that always had each others backs, despite doing things their own way...
Flipsiders wrote: IMHO, GW should focus on outdated sculpts over resin models that have been released in metal in the past. Obviously, there's more than a little overlap between the two, but sculpts such as the Swooping Hawks have aged extremely well, and are still available on ebay in their non-finecast forms. In comparison, the best Dark Reaper sculpt before this new one was to my knowledge finecast-exclusive, so it makes sense to me why it would be updated first.
That still means Warp Spiders should be next on the list, though.
All of the finecast Aspect Warriors were released in metal first.
Were the last finecast Dark Reaper sculpts ever in metal? From my understanding, the "latest" metal set was the Punisher-looking getup they had at the dawn of third edition.
Flipsiders wrote: IMHO, GW should focus on outdated sculpts over resin models that have been released in metal in the past. Obviously, there's more than a little overlap between the two, but sculpts such as the Swooping Hawks have aged extremely well, and are still available on ebay in their non-finecast forms. In comparison, the best Dark Reaper sculpt before this new one was to my knowledge finecast-exclusive, so it makes sense to me why it would be updated first.
That still means Warp Spiders should be next on the list, though.
All of the finecast Aspect Warriors were released in metal first.
Were the last finecast Dark Reaper sculpts ever in metal? From my understanding, the "latest" metal set was the Punisher-looking getup they had at the dawn of third edition.
Sotahullu wrote: Is that Eldar transfer sheet new or have I missed it somehow?
It might be new but I can't find any new transfers on it. It seems identical to Transfer sheet from 2013, just arranged differently and having explanations.
I am a long time Eldar collector but there is nothing in Eldritch Storm that excites me. I light pick it up nevertheless to have something to do while waiting for new Guardians, Warlocks and Avatar.
I reckon it'll be a few weeks before we see the Eldar Codex, the Tau Codex has only just gone up for preorder after all.
I quite like the look of the Eldritch Omens boxed set, especially since most of the models are new. Since it contains models from the upcoming Eldar Codex (the CSM codex is out after that?) these models might be trash gameplay wise. We just don't know.
Sotahullu wrote: Is that Eldar transfer sheet new or have I missed it somehow?
It might be new but I can't find any new transfers on it. It seems identical to Transfer sheet from 2013, just arranged differently and having explanations.
I am a long time Eldar collector but there is nothing in Eldritch Storm that excites me. I light pick it up nevertheless to have something to do while waiting for new Guardians, Warlocks and Avatar.
Is it? I see no Lugganath symbols, they were on the old ones. There also seems to be all of the Aspect runes here too. Generally a lot more Alaitoc, Biel Tan etc symbols on the new sheet as well.
I'm excited for a new Eldar box, but I just don't think this one has miniatures that I'm interested in enough to purchase. I have Eldar and Iron Warriors but only want the characters. I have enough Rangers, and although I like the shroudrunners, just not sure I'll use them. As for chaos, I already hav models I can use as chosen and don't like the forgefiend.
With wanting the Avatar, spears, maugan ra and reapers, plus the codex, I think I'll wait.
Autarch has 3 head options (2x helmet, 1x topknot), but looking at the size/layout
of the sprue, I have my doubts we'll ever see him in a blister/clampack..
Autarch has 3 head options (2x helmet, 1x topknot), but looking at the size/layout
of the sprue, I have my doubts we'll ever see him in a blister/clampack..
Autarch has 3 head options (2x helmet, 1x topknot), but looking at the size/layout
of the sprue, I have my doubts we'll ever see him in a blister/clampack..
Looks like they literally took JG designs and turned them into plastic.
The third head is the same as the other old autarch model.
This model is basically those two autarchs combined with some extra guns.
Autarch has 3 head options (2x helmet, 1x topknot), but looking at the size/layout
of the sprue, I have my doubts we'll ever see him in a blister/clampack..
The third head is the same as the other old autarch model.
Not quite. The second helmeted head option is a combination of these two helmets. It combines the crest of the one on the left, with the face and chin of the one on the right. Note the lack of mandiblasters on the new helmet. The current kit with the wings has the mandiblaster helmet now.
Autarch has 3 head options (2x helmet, 1x topknot), but looking at the size/layout
of the sprue, I have my doubts we'll ever see him in a blister/clampack..
The third head is the same as the other old autarch model.
Not quite. The second helmeted head option is a combination of these two helmets. It combines the crest of the one on the left, with the face and chin of the one on the right. Note the lack of mandiblasters on the new helmet. The current kit with the wings has the mandiblaster helmet now.
Yeah the existing one has taken the mandiblasters. I didn't notice this new head has the chin though.
It's probably because the topknot model was a limited edition boxed army exclusive iirc. And because they'd already added the mandiblaster to the hawk helmet they mixed a bit of that one in.
It does seem though that they're literally taking every design JG made and using them. He does 3 variant head designs for autarchs and they end up in the autarch sprue.
They have hybridized the Autarch helmets more compared to before.
Before it was mostly just a single Aspect in each helmet:
1) Limited edition Dire Avenger style helmet with topknot and Egyptian style false chin beard.
2) Scorpion style (the rearing crest looks stylistically like a scorpion tail) with mandiblasters
3) Banshee mask with double sided haired crest so possibly a hybrid with Dire Avengers, or maybe the crest is meant to represent Banshee style false hair
Now this new kit's helmet versions seem to be:
1) Scorpion crest but now with false chin beard
2) Banshee mask with double sided haired crest so basically a repeat of the previous 3)
3) The other Autarch kit has a Dire Avenger plumed crest with mandiblasters
This makes it a bit weird then in terms of background as the Autarch supposedly took with them one piece of wargear after finishing their time with an Aspect. So it would make sense then for a Scorpion to finish their time and take up the use of a Scorpion themed mandiblaster Autarch helmet. But now if all the Scorpion options seem to have been hybridized with Dire Avenger, does it meant have to do a Dire Avenger Aspect first as well before they can use an Autarch helmet with mandiblasters (or the Scorpion style crest with Dire Avenger chin beard)?
It probably just reflects multiple aspects. First up we know that whilst a lot of the armours are ancient, they do have various phases of design. I think only the Phoenix Lord armour is almost one of a kind; the rest can vary here and there between worlds and such.
Another is that the likely modify the armour if they keep it with them. Reflecting their various paths connecting and intersecting and crossing over.
Sometimes we have to recall that the lore we get is often somewhat flexible and that some early lore can be a very "pure" strain of lore. Ergo the "idealised" concept, but when you get down to individuals and specific craftworlds and the passing of time; you see that the simple "rule" is very adapted and varied.
Overread wrote: It probably just reflects multiple aspects. First up we know that whilst a lot of the armours are ancient, they do have various phases of design. I think only the Phoenix Lord armour is almost one of a kind; the rest can vary here and there between worlds and such.
Another is that the likely modify the armour if they keep it with them. Reflecting their various paths connecting and intersecting and crossing over.
Sometimes we have to recall that the lore we get is often somewhat flexible and that some early lore can be a very "pure" strain of lore. Ergo the "idealised" concept, but when you get down to individuals and specific craftworlds and the passing of time; you see that the simple "rule" is very adapted and varied.
Like the old and new Scorpion super-heavy tank designs. Per the lore released with the new one? Literally a fashion trend. Bonesingers make them to the favoured aesthetic of their Craftworld, because they can.
This makes it a bit weird then in terms of background as the Autarch supposedly took with them one piece of wargear after finishing their time with an Aspect. So it would make sense then for a Scorpion to finish their time and take up the use of a Scorpion themed mandiblaster Autarch helmet. But now if all the Scorpion options seem to have been hybridized with Dire Avenger, does it meant have to do a Dire Avenger Aspect first as well before they can use an Autarch helmet with mandiblasters (or the Scorpion style crest with Dire Avenger chin beard)?
Well I would take the mandiblaster as an item by itself, rather than the helmet it was attached to. Similarly the dark reaper range finders and the banshee mask.
So when they leave they take one of those face weapons/devices and have it built into their autarch helm, which itself may or may not have design flourishes from one or more shrines they trained in.
If we break each shrine down, they have the following unique components:
banshees - banshee blade and mask
scorpions - mandiblaster and scorpion chainsword
Dragons - dragon fusion gun
spiders - jump generator, deathspinner
hawks - wings, lasblaster, grenade harness
spears - lance, jetbike
reapers- rangefinder, reaper launcher
Avengers - dire catapult
crimson hunter - big ol jet...
If we include the legends autarch on jetbike and we assume the sword on the winged autarch will be called a banshee blade (it might not be), then the only items not available to an autarch are:
grenade harness
rangefinder
lasblaster
big ol jet
dire catapult
Which isn't bad really.
Maybe when they finally redo the autarch on jetbike it will have a laser lance, grenade harness, dire catapult, lasblaster and range finder on the sprue.... ? :p
Having them being able to take a big ol jet is probably no better than an exarch in jet, so maybe counts as?
I've done a conversion of an autarch in command war walker, because why not...
Togusa wrote: I saw that the eldar/chaos box is up for preorder next weekend, but there wasn't any mention of price. Has that been leaked yet?
Should be confirmed later today. The last few battle boxes have been £105 though.
Thanks for letting me know. I am a bit worried because I really would like this box (I play both armies and actually am in the market for the forgefiend as well as everything else) but I'm worried because the BT box had half the number of models but was nearly 250$ if memory serves.
Also, what's up with a ton of the plastic Aeldari kits being listed as 'Sold Out Online." Windriders, Wraithguardm Warlock/Farseer Skyrunners, Dire Avengers, and Wraithlords are all gone? I mean aside from the Dire Avengers, all those other kits are post 6th Edition, this is really weird.
Radium wrote: Just the usual reboxing to match 9th box style. Happens with every release, nothing weird about it.
If only the multi-hundred-million-dollar-company that is GW could figure out some possible way to not have their online store bug out horribly every single time they rebox anything, and cause mass confusion, or at least smack a banner that says "we're reboxing stuff so they might temporairly mistakenly show up as Sold Out Line" on their website... but alas, clearly, that is impossible with 21st century technology.
That's well beyond the current exchange rate. Today, 31 Jan, 125 pounds = $165. I tremble at the exchange tricks that GW pulls with the AU$ if this is their typical pricing policy.
Well 125£ translates roughly to 160€ which is a lot.
But I am pretty sure that it does provide some savings then getting them separately (so if you get someone to split it, do it) but it is still expensive for 15 guys and 1 big one.
SamusDrake wrote: Apparently there is another reveal today, so hopefully its the Codex itself...
it's probably not the codex. They almost always do miniature reveals on monday. I am guessing it's the rest of the corsairs
They've been doing model reveals separately to Path of the Preview, usually FW stuff. Last week we saw the new Titanicus... thing alongside Warlocks.
Not showing the codex cover at LVO while clearly stating that this was 'everything' coming for Eldar makes a codex unveil inevitable imo. I just hope it can also be part of an updated codex roadmap at some point this week.
Valraks new video shows the instructions manual. The rangers actually have build options outside the standard hold a sniper pose. There’s the classic dual pistol, a knife pose, etc
GaroRobe wrote: Valraks new video shows the instructions manual. The rangers actually have build options outside the standard hold a sniper pose. There’s the classic dual pistol, a knife pose, etc
There is actually some cool poses there.
But there was no pictures on the new shroud riders but I have suspicion that there is some compatible parts.
SamusDrake wrote: Apparently there is another reveal today, so hopefully its the Codex itself...
it's probably not the codex. They almost always do miniature reveals on monday. I am guessing it's the rest of the corsairs
They've been doing model reveals separately to Path of the Preview, usually FW stuff. Last week we saw the new Titanicus... thing alongside Warlocks.
Not showing the codex cover at LVO while clearly stating that this was 'everything' coming for Eldar makes a codex unveil inevitable imo. I just hope it can also be part of an updated codex roadmap at some point this week.
if Corsairs are in the craftworld codex then the Nachmun book will come before it along with the Kill Team box with whoever the Corsairs are up against, could be new Chaos models too maybe? Imo we're looking at Eldritch Omens, Nachmund + KT, Craftworld codex, Chaos Codex.
I'm interested in the battlebox, I have nether of those armies and i'd love to start my Eldar force up again, but getting the box then having to wait months for the rest to come out is not my idea of 'a good start to an army' so I might wait.
At the end of the article is something that sound so good to my ears: "This isn’t just an exciting time for Aeldari, but for all Warhammer 40,000 xenos players – after the craftworlds touch down, there’s something gribbly and chitinous coming. We don’t want to say too much right now, but there are lots of them, they’ve come a long way, and they’re VERY hungry. For biomass. Okay, you forced it out of us – it’s the Tyranids.''
Shadow Walker wrote: At the end of the article is something that sound so good to my ears: "This isn’t just an exciting time for Aeldari, but for all Warhammer 40,000 xenos players – after the craftworlds touch down, there’s something gribbly and chitinous coming. We don’t want to say too much right now, but there are lots of them, they’ve come a long way, and they’re VERY hungry. For biomass. Okay, you forced it out of us – it’s the Tyranids.''
Me, having just bought all the relevant shiny Tyranid books to get back into 40k, thinking 'nids were safe for a good while due to current rumour directions.
DarkStarSabre wrote: Me, having just bought all the relevant shiny Tyranid books to get back into 40k, thinking 'nids were safe for a good while due to current rumour directions.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: That's well beyond the current exchange rate. Today, 31 Jan, 125 pounds = $165. I tremble at the exchange tricks that GW pulls with the AU$ if this is their typical pricing policy.
GW hasn't followed exchange rates in some time. Americans pay extra for being wealthy and American (apparently), Australians pay extra for living in a part of the world thats upside down from the UK.
Thats why GW has instituted regional sales policies, otherwise it would be cheaper for Americans to order from UK discount retailers than to go to their local stores.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: Whatever happened to the dino riding eldar? IIRC they were referenced in 2nd Ed.
Exodites. Still present in the fluff, actually playing a somewhat more important role, but not present in game terms yet (that I can recall anyway).
Automatically Appended Next Post: And apparently Tyranids are coming next? Before CSM? Thats unexpected.
And apparently Tyranids are coming next? Before CSM? Thats unexpected.
It might read that way, or it could be they're saying the next xenos codex (but not necessarily the next codex) is Nids, which isn't exactly a great leap because there's nothing xenos based left.
GW rarely does larger releases back to back, and both Eldar and CSM will be quite large releases with updates to existing kits. It doesn't makes much business sense for CSM to come immediately after Eldar.
Tyranids meanwhile will likely be a modest Codex+new model(s) release.
DarkStarSabre wrote: Me, having just bought all the relevant shiny Tyranid books to get back into 40k, thinking 'nids were safe for a good while due to current rumour directions.
If you are quick enough, can you get a refund?
Eh, too many different sources plus will fall outside the date range . Ah well. Good thing I have some spare funds next few weeks.
Eh, too many different sources plus will fall outside the date range . Ah well. Good thing I have some spare funds next few weeks.
The Codex is going to be obsolete of course, but Warzone Octarius will likely remain a relevant book as I doubt the codex will have the Synaptic Link rules and definitely will not have the Leviathan Supplement.
Same with the Crusher Stampede WD rules.
Tyran wrote: GW rarely does larger releases back to back, and both Eldar and CSM will be quite large releases with updates to existing kits. It doesn't makes much business sense for CSM to come immediately after Eldar.
Tyranids meanwhile will likely be a modest Codex+new model(s) release.
Yeah, I'm worried now.
On the one hand, it'll be interesting to see what they look like this time around (tyranid rules are highly random between editions), but on the other claw... they seem smushed in between what we've been expecting.
Just... pyro/biovores and lictor plastics, minimum. Just a wafer thin release. Not a token book + irrelevant special character.
Eh, too many different sources plus will fall outside the date range . Ah well. Good thing I have some spare funds next few weeks.
The Codex is going to be obsolete of course, but Warzone Octarius will likely remain a relevant book as I doubt the codex will have the Synaptic Link rules and definitely will not have the Leviathan Supplement.
Same with the Crusher Stampede WD rules.
I read the infos for the links different. They will be in imo, why wouldn`t they? But in a couple of weeks we should learn more and get a seperate thread.
For the stampede i would agree.
I would've expected Nids to have originally been scheduled around / slightly before the Leviathan supplement and been pushed back, similar to Custodes.
So they're squeezing it between Eldar and CSM now.
Eh, too many different sources plus will fall outside the date range . Ah well. Good thing I have some spare funds next few weeks.
The Codex is going to be obsolete of course, but Warzone Octarius will likely remain a relevant book as I doubt the codex will have the Synaptic Link rules and definitely will not have the Leviathan Supplement.
Same with the Crusher Stampede WD rules.
I read the infos for the links different. They will be in imo, why wouldn`t they? But in a couple of weeks we should learn more and get a seperate thread.
For the stampede i would agree.
I've spun this off now to save derailing the Eldar thread:
DarkStarSabre wrote: Me, having just bought all the relevant shiny Tyranid books to get back into 40k, thinking 'nids were safe for a good while due to current rumour directions.
Felt the same way after buying the cards for the Marine 'Dex that had only just come out at the end of 8th. Of course, no one knew it was the 'end of 8th' at the time.
DarkStarSabre wrote: Me, having just bought all the relevant shiny Tyranid books to get back into 40k, thinking 'nids were safe for a good while due to current rumour directions.
Felt the same way after buying the cards for the Marine 'Dex that had only just come out at the end of 8th. Of course, no one knew it was the 'end of 8th' at the time.
Swore off buying 40k printed material that day.
yeah, I swore off buying printed material in 8th for similar reasons, just much earlier on.... only for GW to not give me a choice in the matter by removing digital options.
I wonder if further down the road, GW will release both Autarchs in a single box? It's technically not a conversion, but the fact that the Codex cover has the older Autarch with the new one's weapon option is kind of interesting.
(I am aware that the two kits are compatible, but I didn't expect GW to actually have artwork showing that)
GaroRobe wrote: I wonder if further down the road, GW will release both Autarchs in a single box? It's technically not a conversion, but the fact that the Codex cover has the older Autarch with the new one's weapon option is kind of interesting.
(I am aware that the two kits are compatible, but I didn't expect GW to actually have artwork showing that)
Yeah, it’ll be when they release a model of the techpriest on the AdMech cover.
The whole art = models thing is a fair bit looser now than it was at one stage.
GaroRobe wrote: The article mentions Way Seekers, who I'm just gonna guess are the "warlock" equivalent of what will come in the kill team.
KT2018 didn't introduce warlocks until the commanders expansion. Any reason to believe they're doing it differently this time around?
Rumors mentioned that a Warlock would be part of the Corsair team. It's possible that a Way Seeker is another type of model also included in the set. I'm just speculating that what someone thought was a warlock will in fact be used to represent a Way Seeker in a Corsair kill team.
GaroRobe wrote: The article mentions Way Seekers, who I'm just gonna guess are the "warlock" equivalent of what will come in the kill team.
"It’s the duty of psychically gifted Way Seekers to guide fallen Corsairs into waystones, where their souls can rest in safety." Certainly could be the Corsairs equivalent of a Warlock.
Tastyfish wrote: Didn't the leaks that first mention corsairs say there are basic corsairs and elite ones?
Guess that might turn out to be Kill Team squad for the fancy guys and the basic squad being the alt build of just standard corsairs.
It's also a question of whether there are, for example, Corsair HQs (Prince, Void Dreamer etc.) or whether that one special character is the only option short of just defaulting to Farseers and Autarchs.
Tastyfish wrote: Didn't the leaks that first mention corsairs say there are basic corsairs and elite ones?
Guess that might turn out to be Kill Team squad for the fancy guys and the basic squad being the alt build of just standard corsairs.
It's also a question of whether there are, for example, Corsair HQs (Prince, Void Dreamer etc.) or whether that one special character is the only option short of just defaulting to Farseers and Autarchs.
My understanding from the leaks are that there will be one corsair box that will make either veterans (void scarred) or troops.
Maybe they'll do a harlequins and have the squad leader act as a HQ choice?
So their unit range won't be huge, but if there's a HQ then that's 3 dedicated units and some counts as - war walkers = wasps etc.
Tastyfish wrote: I don't think they are going to look anything like warlocks - I got the impression that this was a Way Seeker, tending to a wounded comrade.
Spoiler:
Is this old Artwork? It kind of does look like 2nd/3rd edition artwork but have not seen this in my entire life.
If this is new artwork, I'm happy to see stuff resembling the older edition stuff.
John D Law wrote: I take it everyone saw the February mini of the month?
Yep...
And while kind of bummed this kit didn't get updated, it was never a part of any of the rumours, so it doesn't bother me.
Speaking of the Old Rumours, The Eldar reddit leak mentioned Warp Spiders, so are we expecting this to be a second release, or has the Reddit Leak now been debunked? Because I thought it was kind of believable, thanks to the Shroud Runner Mention.
The general feeling is that GW has finished with new models and is now in "Codex Preview mode".
That said there's every chance that other aspect warriors could appear as latter releases through the year; since they basically can slip out at any time as its just replacing existing models. Although Warp spiders might be the exception if they got a named character model
It's also a rumour that might have been sparked originally by seeing the new Autarch in its warpspider armour.
I think if there was anything else out due with this new Codex we would have seen it by now.
If there are Spiders or Hawks waiting in the wings (pun not intended), then they'll be released alongside a wave two DLC book, much like the extra AdMech and Lumineth stuff.
John D Law wrote: I take it everyone saw the February mini of the month?
Yep...
And while kind of bummed this kit didn't get updated, it was never a part of any of the rumours, so it doesn't bother me.
Speaking of the Old Rumours, The Eldar reddit leak mentioned Warp Spiders, so are we expecting this to be a second release, or has the Reddit Leak now been debunked? Because I thought it was kind of believable, thanks to the Shroud Runner Mention.
Aeldari Discord today leaked a blurred pic of Warp Spider photo from the codex. It was the current Warp Spider Exarch with an updated paint scheme. It appears no new model for now.
It's a shame as I will not buy current hawks or spiders, so hopefully a second wave is not too far away. I have the new banshees, old scorps and dragons and will likely buy new reapers and spears (since I don't own any of those). Turns out this huge update might be quite cheap for me as I have no desire for the new rangers or guardians and doubt I'll fork out for the shroudrunners.
Tastyfish wrote: Didn't the leaks that first mention corsairs say there are basic corsairs and elite ones?
Guess that might turn out to be Kill Team squad for the fancy guys and the basic squad being the alt build of just standard corsairs.
It's also a question of whether there are, for example, Corsair HQs (Prince, Void Dreamer etc.) or whether that one special character is the only option short of just defaulting to Farseers and Autarchs.
My understanding from the leaks are that there will be one corsair box that will make either veterans (void scarred) or troops.
Maybe they'll do a harlequins and have the squad leader act as a HQ choice?
So their unit range won't be huge, but if there's a HQ then that's 3 dedicated units and some counts as - war walkers = wasps etc.
I'm more interested if there will be any background expansion.
Maybe I am showing my age, but the question of the economic viability or economic model of Eldar piracy is something I have wondered about. Though they might have taken to the stars to get freedom from their previous way of life, military grade weaponry is expensive to create and maintain, in time if nothing else as it would still take time for a Bonesinger to sing and craft, and Eldar Corsairs have been shown with ships up to battleship size. Obviously raiding for captives to take to Commorragh can be a source of income and raw resources can have value to Commorragh or some of the smaller independent settlements within the Webway (as shown in Gav Thorpe's Path of the Outcast novel). Doing the bidding of Farseers to shape fate may be payment in service in return for equipment or repair from Craftworlds.
The image comes to mind of somebody trying to start up a new Corsair band and having to present a business case to the Farseers before the Bonesingers will provide the ships (since BFG Corsairs seem to draw more from Craftworlders and their tech base).
GaroRobe wrote: The article mentions Way Seekers, who I'm just gonna guess are the "warlock" equivalent of what will come in the kill team.
KT2018 didn't introduce warlocks until the commanders expansion. Any reason to believe they're doing it differently this time around?
Yes, psykers are in the base game and warlock-like “characters” are already in kill teams. This version of KT doesn’t need the Commanders and Elites distinction.
John D Law wrote: I take it everyone saw the February mini of the month?
Yep...
And while kind of bummed this kit didn't get updated, it was never a part of any of the rumours, so it doesn't bother me.
As a non-Eldar player, would there be anything stopping me from buying a bunch of Dire Avenger heads off ebay, and plopping them on the new guardians? From what I gather, they use the same weapons, but Avengers have a range finder on their back instead of fins.
As a non-Eldar player, would there be anything stopping me from buying a bunch of Dire Avenger heads off ebay, and plopping them on the new guardians? From what I gather, they use the same weapons, but Avengers have a range finder on their back instead of fins.
Weapons are slightly different. The dire avenger ones have little dire avenger runes on them. Fluff and rules-wise they are longer ranged. The only physical consideration to your idea is we don't know how the heads attach on the new guardians kit. They might be keyed like on the banshees to only go one way. The dire avenger heads have the rounded ends that let you put them on however you like. So it might take a little work to put the DA heads on the guardian bodies. Another thing to consider is scale creep and mold quality. The DA heads are much older from before digital sculpting and might not look right on the modern guardians.
John D Law wrote: I take it everyone saw the February mini of the month?
Yep...
And while kind of bummed this kit didn't get updated, it was never a part of any of the rumours, so it doesn't bother me.
As a non-Eldar player, would there be anything stopping me from buying a bunch of Dire Avenger heads off ebay, and plopping them on the new guardians? From what I gather, they use the same weapons, but Avengers have a range finder on their back instead of fins.
The DA have loincloths/tabard things, and a few extra runes. Guns might be slightly bigger, I’d have to measure. The rangefinder, exarch options.
But the right helmets/paintjob and from a table top distance, no reason why you couldn’t just do that. Or even skip the headswap and just give guardians the right paint.
The new Shuriken Cannon profile is going to rock.....Until they start giving all Marines 3W and a 4++.
The power creep is getting pretty crazy. But fingers crossed it should be a while until they bump the marine statline. We’d get another blanket rule on top first. Or another reset.
John D Law wrote: I take it everyone saw the February mini of the month?
Yep...
And while kind of bummed this kit didn't get updated, it was never a part of any of the rumours, so it doesn't bother me.
As a non-Eldar player, would there be anything stopping me from buying a bunch of Dire Avenger heads off ebay, and plopping them on the new guardians? From what I gather, they use the same weapons, but Avengers have a range finder on their back instead of fins.
The old plastic Dire Avengers(the one's who had metal heads and loin cloths) were more or less just Guardians with extra bits. I wouldn't personally object if someone was playing with upgraded Guardian bodies.
The Red Hobbit wrote: I'm surprised the Shuriken Cannon is going to D2, isn't that stepping on the toes of the Starcannon?
The switch to Heavy kinda blows for Guardian squads unless the hover platform ignores the Heavy rule
If the platform doesn't have the Infantry keyword it automatically bypasses the Heavy rule. But if it doesn't have that Infantry keyword that also stops them moving through breachable terrain. It would be odd for it to be part of the unit and have different keywords. Maybe it'll have to be deployed together but then separate into its own unit once deployed.
I'm not mad keen on Heavy weapons at all on units that re supposed to be quick. Being able to move and shoot without penalty is all fine and good, but that doesn't make it quick.
I now feel that little bit better about fielding my Voidweaver and might even grab a second. That said, the rear shuriken cannon was a right sod to attach...
I now feel that little bit better about fielding my Voidweaver and might even grab a second. That said, the rear shuriken cannon was a right sod to attach...
That rear cannon is a nightmare. Mine snapped off so many times it has now been permanently discarded.
John D Law wrote: I take it everyone saw the February mini of the month?
Is this a special mini or do they just open a box of DA and give you parts for one?
The ones I’ve gotten typically are pre assembled. That meant I got a grey knight missing a hand once, but I also got a tau with a drone so you never know
John D Law wrote: I take it everyone saw the February mini of the month?
Is this a special mini or do they just open a box of DA and give you parts for one?
The ones I’ve gotten typically are pre assembled. That meant I got a grey knight missing a hand once, but I also got a tau with a drone so you never know
Might vary by store. The GSC acolyte I got last visit to the store was in parts.
It varies a lot store by store and perhaps even customer by customer. Ergo a store owner who knows you're an experienced gamer might well just give you the clipped parts; whilst if they know you're a beginner they might well give you the completed model - or even build it with you guided wise if you're new and have time and they are coaxing you into the hobby etc...
It can also depend on scale - stores in very busy areas might just not have the time or the idea to build them ;stores in more quiet locations with less active footfall might well have time to build them
Overread wrote: It varies a lot store by store and perhaps even customer by customer. Ergo a store owner who knows you're an experienced gamer might well just give you the clipped parts; whilst if they know you're a beginner they might well give you the completed model - or even build it with you guided wise if you're new and have time and they are coaxing you into the hobby etc...
It can also depend on scale - stores in very busy areas might just not have the time or the idea to build them ;stores in more quiet locations with less active footfall might well have time to build them
Good to know lol. I live about 45 minutes from the nearest GW store, not worth it to me.
To be fair the models aren't really worth it to most experienced players. Nice but not worth much - its really much more value to new people.
The coins I've steadily collected for armies I play, was surprised that Eldar wasn't this month but I suspect that's because releases are messed up at present so we get what we get.
Overread wrote: To be fair the models aren't really worth it to most experienced players. Nice but not worth much - its really much more value to new people.
The coins I've steadily collected for armies I play, was surprised that Eldar wasn't this month but I suspect that's because releases are messed up at present so we get what we get.
In the early 2000's the Bunker in Baltimore gave away 1 Marine on Sundays to paint. I know a guy who eventually put together 6 tac squads this way.
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I'm looking at the old Maugan Ra figure...did they paint his bone armor silver or is it grey and just looks silver from a NMM effect?
The Red Hobbit wrote: I'm surprised the Shuriken Cannon is going to D2, isn't that stepping on the toes of the Starcannon?
The switch to Heavy kinda blows for Guardian squads unless the hover platform ignores the Heavy rule
If the platform doesn't have the Infantry keyword it automatically bypasses the Heavy rule. But if it doesn't have that Infantry keyword that also stops them moving through breachable terrain. It would be odd for it to be part of the unit and have different keywords. Maybe it'll have to be deployed together but then separate into its own unit once deployed.
I'm not mad keen on Heavy weapons at all on units that re supposed to be quick. Being able to move and shoot without penalty is all fine and good, but that doesn't make it quick.
As memory serves the Hover Pad has always had an inbuilt rule that bypasses Heavy. So more than likely it will be a specific special rule on the data sheet.
The new Shuriken Cannon profile is going to rock.....Until they start giving all Marines 3W and a 4++.
The power creep is getting pretty crazy. But fingers crossed it should be a while until they bump the marine statline. We’d get another blanket rule on top first. Or another reset.
Eh. Drukhari got similar treatment and no one uses it. Maybe it will be different for Eldar with the shuriken rule.
Splinter cannons don't have the sheer availability that shuriken cannons do.
Its either in an infantry squad where its a type mismatch (for the usual role of DE warriors or scourges), or one transport type (or Talos, but there are better choices). They are also just terrible against vehicles, which limits their usefulness (whereas S6 matters, especially with typical eldar shenanigans).
Shuriken cannons go on pretty much every vehicle and assorted support weapon mount. Getting stuck with heavy may cause a problem for guardian platforms, but so will any other weapon.
The fact that 10(?) kit wave leaves many players disappointed and wanting for more proves how badly Eldar range was in need of renewal. I remember last year's 11-kit Lumineth second wave and thinking how awesome it would be if Eldar received a similar sized release.
I too would have liked to see even more but I am happy with what is about to hit shelves. Using the current range the only feasible build with recent models is ghost heavy Iyanden. New Guardians and Warlocks make Ulthwe a tempting option and new Rangers and Shroud Runners should form a nice core for Alaitoc force. Saim-Hann wasn't too bad before and Shroud Runners and Shining Spears are a welcome addition.
I strongly believe that we will see another wave of Eldar in near future. Maybe not this year but in the meantime we have lot more good looking plastic options than before.
Overread wrote: To be fair the models aren't really worth it to most experienced players. Nice but not worth much - its really much more value to new people.
The coins I've steadily collected for armies I play, was surprised that Eldar wasn't this month but I suspect that's because releases are messed up at present so we get what we get.
In the early 2000's the Bunker in Baltimore gave away 1 Marine on Sundays to paint. I know a guy who eventually put together 6 tac squads this way.
For those that don't like the mini of the month, all GW stores should still have marines and stormcast for new players to paint (usually its ones from a paint set or the identical easy-to-build model that comes in that "Get started with warhammer" magazine). That's been around for a long time, way before the free mini of the month. Though whether or not the store would be willing to give a free marine to a repeat customer is the question (I'm gonna guess no)
The new Shuriken Cannon profile is going to rock.....Until they start giving all Marines 3W and a 4++.
The power creep is getting pretty crazy. But fingers crossed it should be a while until they bump the marine statline. We’d get another blanket rule on top first. Or another reset.
Eh. Drukhari got similar treatment and no one uses it. Maybe it will be different for Eldar with the shuriken rule.
Sigh.
No, Dark Eldar didn't get the same treatment.
The Splinter Cannon was Range 36" Rapid Fire 3 S- AP0 D1 Poison 4+
It was changed to Range 36" Heavy 3 S- AP-1 D2 Poison 4+.
IOW, unlike the Shuriken Cannon, it got D2 but lost half its shots in the process (making it no better against Marines and worse against anything with an odd number of wounds or -1D). So all it really netted was AP-1.
Oh and it's now significantly worse for Infantry as they're unable to move and fire it without penalty. And Dark Eldar aren't exactly meant to play stationary lists.
Bear in mind also that the Splinter Cannon was already a bad weapon. It had a lot of shots but wounded infantry on 4s and vehicles on 6s. And gaining a mere -1 AP (as the extra damage is countered by the halving of its shots) is nowhere near enough to change that.
Now contrast that with the Shuriken Cannon or even the Heavy Bolter - both of which wound most infantry on 3s and vehicles on 5s, yet neither lost any shots in the transition to D2.
As we already knew from the leaks, battle focus is essentially the old battle focus (6th/7th), but better since you get both the advance and the run-after-shooting. It'll be a very nice tool to have!
Sometimes 40K rules are like trying to use the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch and yet there could be an easier way to play...
"Throw your opponent's models in random directions across the room, as if they've been hit by a bomb blast. Your opponent may not protest and you earn 1 victory point."
Radium wrote: As we already knew from the leaks, battle focus is essentially the old battle focus (6th/7th), but better since you get both the advance and the run-after-shooting. It'll be a very nice tool to have!
Actually it says you can't make the Battle Focus move if it Advanced or if it Fell Back. So you essentially get an advance move either before or after shooting.
(That may have been what you meant, but I thought I'd clarify)
I'd have actually liked it to be possible to Battle Focus back into a transport. It would have provided a different flavour of transport based shenanigans to the harlequin and dark eldar's long move and charge/ shoot. Jumping back into your shielded transport seems like exactly the sort of thing eldar should be doing.
The new Shuriken Cannon profile is going to rock.....Until they start giving all Marines 3W and a 4++.
The power creep is getting pretty crazy. But fingers crossed it should be a while until they bump the marine statline. We’d get another blanket rule on top first. Or another reset.
Eh. Drukhari got similar treatment and no one uses it. Maybe it will be different for Eldar with the shuriken rule.
Sigh.
No, Dark Eldar didn't get the same treatment.
The Splinter Cannon was Range 36" Rapid Fire 3 S- AP0 D1 Poison 4+
It was changed to Range 36" Heavy 3 S- AP-1 D2 Poison 4+.
IOW, unlike the Shuriken Cannon, it got D2 but lost half its shots in the process (making it no better against Marines and worse against anything with an odd number of wounds or -1D). So all it really netted was AP-1.
Oh and it's now significantly worse for Infantry as they're unable to move and fire it without penalty. And Dark Eldar aren't exactly meant to play stationary lists.
Bear in mind also that the Splinter Cannon was already a bad weapon. It had a lot of shots but wounded infantry on 4s and vehicles on 6s. And gaining a mere -1 AP (as the extra damage is countered by the halving of its shots) is nowhere near enough to change that.
Now contrast that with the Shuriken Cannon or even the Heavy Bolter - both of which wound most infantry on 3s and vehicles on 5s, yet neither lost any shots in the transition to D2.
Exactly. Shuriken Cannon is a straight buff, and getting D2 means the Star Cannon is going to get an even bigger buff.
The new Shuriken Cannon profile is going to rock.....Until they start giving all Marines 3W and a 4++.
The power creep is getting pretty crazy. But fingers crossed it should be a while until they bump the marine statline. We’d get another blanket rule on top first. Or another reset.
Eh. Drukhari got similar treatment and no one uses it. Maybe it will be different for Eldar with the shuriken rule.
Sigh.
No, Dark Eldar didn't get the same treatment.
The Splinter Cannon was Range 36" Rapid Fire 3 S- AP0 D1 Poison 4+
It was changed to Range 36" Heavy 3 S- AP-1 D2 Poison 4+.
IOW, unlike the Shuriken Cannon, it got D2 but lost half its shots in the process (making it no better against Marines and worse against anything with an odd number of wounds or -1D). So all it really netted was AP-1.
Oh and it's now significantly worse for Infantry as they're unable to move and fire it without penalty. And Dark Eldar aren't exactly meant to play stationary lists.
Bear in mind also that the Splinter Cannon was already a bad weapon. It had a lot of shots but wounded infantry on 4s and vehicles on 6s. And gaining a mere -1 AP (as the extra damage is countered by the halving of its shots) is nowhere near enough to change that.
Now contrast that with the Shuriken Cannon or even the Heavy Bolter - both of which wound most infantry on 3s and vehicles on 5s, yet neither lost any shots in the transition to D2.
Exactly. Shuriken Cannon is a straight buff, and getting D2 means the Star Cannon is going to get an even bigger buff.
Not quite, the starcannon stat is already out. 2 shots, S7 AP-3 D2. It basically just received a single pip of strength.
I don't know. The 2nd part of Battle Focus just feels pointless.
The Black Adder wrote: I'd have actually liked it to be possible to Battle Focus back into a transport. It would have provided a different flavour of transport based shenanigans to the harlequin and dark eldar's long move and charge/ shoot. Jumping back into your shielded transport seems like exactly the sort of thing eldar should be doing.
NO! No fething way. They were able to do this with a strat. or a psychihc power (I do not recall which at the moment) in 8th edition and it was a major problem. It got FAQ'ed right the hell out of the game.
alextroy wrote: And games against Aeldari slow to a crawl...
Only if the Aeldari player sucks. A good player will know exactly what they want to do with each units Battle Focus move when they initially move in the Move phase.
So after each unit shoots, a quick d6 roll and further move should NOT add but a few seconds to a turn.
If it takes longer than that, they are either really inexperienced or intentionally slow playing you.
Aside from large Guardian units, CWE have mostly small, easy to resolve units. Heck, even Guardians would be easy to resolve since you would only pop the 1-2 Heavy weapons out to shoot then D6 them back.
What I wanna know now is if BIKE still have auto 6" for Advance, does that also mean an auto 6" for a BF move?
If so, Windriders might actually have a purpose again.
And Shroud Runners would be annoying as hell
My main issue with move shoot move is the time it’s going to take to shuffle all the models around. With the random d6 movement I don’t think there are going to be a lot of pop up attacks where you can totally hide again. Will be nice to help dictate the range of the fight, but the randomness will make it hard to exploit.
There might be strats that can impact it. Would expect an auto-6 for a CP. but that’s one unit a turn.
Nevelon wrote: My main issue with move shoot move is the time it’s going to take to shuffle all the models around. With the random d6 movement I don’t think there are going to be a lot of pop up attacks where you can totally hide again. Will be nice to help dictate the range of the fight, but the randomness will make it hard to exploit.
There might be strats that can impact it. Would expect an auto-6 for a CP. but that’s one unit a turn.
If I may slightly flip that. I don’t think we’ll see many pop-up attacks relying on a high withdrawal move.
If a small unit, say Fire Dragons can meander a couple of inches out of cover and into view and blast something? They’ve got a decent chance of making it back out of LoS. Whereas someone not really thinking it through and gambling for a 6” withdrawal to save them is most likely to get caught with their trousers down.
It also allows to scuttle out of one bit of terrain, shoot, then scuttle on to the next.
Nevelon wrote: My main issue with move shoot move is the time it’s going to take to shuffle all the models around. With the random d6 movement I don’t think there are going to be a lot of pop up attacks where you can totally hide again. Will be nice to help dictate the range of the fight, but the randomness will make it hard to exploit.
There might be strats that can impact it. Would expect an auto-6 for a CP. but that’s one unit a turn.
BIKES may have auto 6" BF, which would make sense as they have auto 6" if they Advance instead.
It would make Windriders and Shroud runners annoying. Maybe even Shining Spears since the Exarch can get a Shuriken cannon and Catapults are rumored to be 18" (has that been confirmed?)
Regarding Shuricannons vs Star cannons: I'm hoping that they cost the same as Scatter lasers. If all 3 cost the same, they seem evenly matched.
Sure both Shuricannons and Star cannons will be D2, but Star cannons will have S7 and AP3 all the time. That will make a difference against T6/7 targets that have decent saves.
But if Star cannons are more expensive than Shuricannons, the choice is clear.
Nevelon wrote: My main issue with move shoot move is the time it’s going to take to shuffle all the models around. With the random d6 movement I don’t think there are going to be a lot of pop up attacks where you can totally hide again. Will be nice to help dictate the range of the fight, but the randomness will make it hard to exploit.
There might be strats that can impact it. Would expect an auto-6 for a CP. but that’s one unit a turn.
If I may slightly flip that. I don’t think we’ll see many pop-up attacks relying on a high withdrawal move.
If a small unit, say Fire Dragons can meander a couple of inches out of cover and into view and blast something? They’ve got a decent chance of making it back out of LoS. Whereas someone not really thinking it through and gambling for a 6” withdrawal to save them is most likely to get caught with their trousers down.
It also allows to scuttle out of one bit of terrain, shoot, then scuttle on to the next.
I agree, there are a ton of shenanigans going to be pulled with this. But I don’t think there are going to be a lot of game-breaking ones.
oni wrote: I don't know. The 2nd part of Battle Focus just feels pointless.
Either gives you a chance to move back behind obscuring or into light cover, or move into range, fire and then move back.
Yeah, I get the theoretical application. Knowing only this rule without unit context makes it difficult to see how it will be reliable enough to be used practically, it's a random D6 movement. With the reduction in table size, weapon range is almost never a concern, so I suppose it's just fun, which I can definitely support.
What I wanna know now is if BIKE still have auto 6" for Advance, does that also mean an auto 6" for a BF move?
If so, Windriders might actually have a purpose again.
And Shroud Runners would be annoying as hell
-
The thing is, shurican cannon is now Heavy so will not be able to advance and fire with the bikes, unless they either have a rule to ignore it, or use a strat, saim hann trait(?) to do so. I'm assuming Harlies might get an exception here otherwise that's going to slow them down a bit with all transports and bikes now carrying heavy weapons, especially since they seem to be keeping their advance and charge.
Not sure on auto BF, that might be interesting (could see it as a strat) but I wouldn't expect it to be a rule.
Move shoot move has to be up there with the most toxic mechanics 40k's ever had. This is going to be massively abused and be incredibly un-fun to play against.
Tyel wrote: Move shoot move has to be up there with the most toxic mechanics 40k's ever had. This is going to be massively abused and be incredibly un-fun to play against.
What I wanna know now is if BIKE still have auto 6" for Advance, does that also mean an auto 6" for a BF move?
If so, Windriders might actually have a purpose again.
And Shroud Runners would be annoying as hell
-
The thing is, shurican cannon is now Heavy so will not be able to advance and fire with the bikes, unless they either have a rule to ignore it, or use a strat, saim hann trait(?) to do so. I'm assuming Harlies might get an exception here otherwise that's going to slow them down a bit with all transports and bikes now carrying heavy weapons, especially since they seem to be keeping their advance and charge.
Not sure on auto BF, that might be interesting (could see it as a strat) but I wouldn't expect it to be a rule.
No one should care about Advancing and Firing Shuricannons. You want to use the second ability from Battle Focus, which says nothing about Heavy weapons or not.
So *if* Bikes get auto-6" Advance and BF move (which I highly suspect they will) than you move up to 16", fire your weapons and then move 6" behind terrain.
Eldar Jetbikes had this rule for YEARS (since at lease 4th ed if not earlier) before 8th took it away.
It wasn't considered "broken" until 7th ed, when Windriders got access to Scatter lasers on every bike (instead of just 1 Shuricannon per 3).
Considering things are far more tanky (because so many weapons are so killy), returning the Move-shoot-move to Bikes shouldn't be even half as broken as 7th.
Tyel wrote: Move shoot move has to be up there with the most toxic mechanics 40k's ever had. This is going to be massively abused and be incredibly un-fun to play against.
Eh, maybe. I don't think it'll be too bad because it's a random D6 move. It's just switching the Advance move to be after shooting. So, not gaining additional ground and no guarantee they'll get into/behind terrain. I think the worst of it will be slowing the game down. I can definitely see this mechanic adding a significant amount of time to the game over the course of 5 turns.
Tyel wrote: Move shoot move has to be up there with the most toxic mechanics 40k's ever had. This is going to be massively abused and be incredibly un-fun to play against.
Eh, maybe. I don't think it'll be too bad because it's a random D6 move. It's just switching the Advance move to be after shooting. So, not gaining additional ground and no guarantee they'll get into/behind terrain. I think the worst of it will be slowing the game down. I can definitely see this mechanic adding a significant amount of time to the game over the course of 5 turns.
While I'm certainly in the camp that this change isn't broken, we need people to stop using the D6 random as the reason. We haven't seen the whole codex yet and there's VERY likely to be ways/units that do not roll, but just get a flat 6" (most likely all BIKE units for example).
So there is very likely going to be lists that are designed to abuse this mechanic.
That said, I actually don't think Battle Focus will be THE reason Eldar become top-tier again. If they do, it will be because of improved weapon stats and other wonky mechanics powers, strats and Strands of fate
I’d definitely be wary of allowing the Eldar player to set up the terrain though (yes this is a joke)
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also. Someone please talk me out of buying an Eldar army.
Please.
Every time someone tries to talk me out of something I end up wanting it even more (eg all the hate on the Direwolf has me wanting one all the more!)
So I'm not going to tell you not to build an Eldar Army. Freaking go for it!
However if you want to make a more financially safe choice for yourself that will stop you building the army, I've a perfect solution.
Just send me your disposable income for the next 2-3 months over the Eldar release window. I'll thus able able to start an Eldar army and you won't. Instantly you'll be saved the burden of continued expenses and it will just cost you your disposable income for 2-3 months! That's just what you'd lose on Eldar anyway, but this way you won't have the guilt, the continued purchases nor the overarching pressure of the increased "to be built" pile. I'll take on all those horrible obligations on your behalf.
Overread wrote: Every time someone tries to talk me out of something I end up wanting it even more (eg all the hate on the Direwolf has me wanting one all the more!)
That... Sounds like an unhealthy amount of contrarianism.
Every time someone tries to talk me out of something I end up wanting it even more (eg all the hate on the Direwolf has me wanting one all the more!)
Overread, for the love of the Omnissiah, you don't want that Direwolf. Even if Forgeworld paid me £50 to have one on the house, I'd still tell them to take a walk.
Overread wrote: Every time someone tries to talk me out of something I end up wanting it even more (eg all the hate on the Direwolf has me wanting one all the more!)
That... Sounds like an unhealthy amount of contrarianism.
Every time someone tries to talk me out of something I end up wanting it even more (eg all the hate on the Direwolf has me wanting one all the more!)
Overread, for the love of the Omnissiah, you don't want that Direwolf. Even if Forgeworld paid me £50 to have one on the house, I'd still tell them to take a walk.
Every time someone tries to talk me out of something I end up wanting it even more (eg all the hate on the Direwolf has me wanting one all the more!)
Overread, for the love of the Omnissiah, you don't want that Direwolf. Even if Forgeworld paid me £50 to have one on the house, I'd still tell them to take a walk.
Its THAT friggin bad.
So.............. now I need 2
You don't seem to understand how unbelievably horrible that thing looks.
I have not bought anything from GW in ages, how has the scale creep been? For example, how much bigger are the plastic Krieg guys compared to the Cadians etc? Just wondering how the new stuff may fit with the old.
alextroy wrote: And games against Aeldari slow to a crawl...
Only if the Aeldari player sucks. A good player will know exactly what they want to do with each units Battle Focus move when they initially move in the Move phase.
So after each unit shoots, a quick d6 roll and further move should NOT add but a few seconds to a turn.
If it takes longer than that, they are either really inexperienced or intentionally slow playing you.
Aside from large Guardian units, CWE have mostly small, easy to resolve units. Heck, even Guardians would be easy to resolve since you would only pop the 1-2 Heavy weapons out to shoot then D6 them back.
What I wanna know now is if BIKE still have auto 6" for Advance, does that also mean an auto 6" for a BF move?
If so, Windriders might actually have a purpose again.
And Shroud Runners would be annoying as hell
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You mean a few of seconds per model per turn of them game, right? And that assumes you have a player who can decide on that move in an instant.
40 models times 5 seconds per model means three more minutes per turn.
Every time someone tries to talk me out of something I end up wanting it even more (eg all the hate on the Direwolf has me wanting one all the more!)
Overread, for the love of the Omnissiah, you don't want that Direwolf. Even if Forgeworld paid me £50 to have one on the house, I'd still tell them to take a walk.
Its THAT friggin bad.
So.............. now I need 2
You don't seem to understand how unbelievably horrible that thing looks.
You obviously need four.
I hadn't seen this new mini and had to google it. Look at its piddly little arms! It's great how can people not like that little freakshow?
If I didn't already have zero money for new Eldar I'd buy one as well.
Every time someone tries to talk me out of something I end up wanting it even more (eg all the hate on the Direwolf has me wanting one all the more!)
Overread, for the love of the Omnissiah, you don't want that Direwolf. Even if Forgeworld paid me £50 to have one on the house, I'd still tell them to take a walk.
Its THAT friggin bad.
So.............. now I need 2
You don't seem to understand how unbelievably horrible that thing looks.
You obviously need four.
I hadn't seen this new mini and had to google it. Look at its piddly little arms! It's great how can people not like that little freakshow?
If I didn't already have zero money for new Eldar I'd buy one as well.
What I wanna know now is if BIKE still have auto 6" for Advance, does that also mean an auto 6" for a BF move?
If so, Windriders might actually have a purpose again.
And Shroud Runners would be annoying as hell
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No they can't. Read the 2nd bullet point on BF rules. The move after shooting counts as a Normal Move, Any rules for Advance therefore don't apply.
Every time someone tries to talk me out of something I end up wanting it even more (eg all the hate on the Direwolf has me wanting one all the more!)
Overread, for the love of the Omnissiah, you don't want that Direwolf. Even if Forgeworld paid me £50 to have one on the house, I'd still tell them to take a walk.
Its THAT friggin bad.
So.............. now I need 2
You don't seem to understand how unbelievably horrible that thing looks.
You obviously need four.
I hadn't seen this new mini and had to google it. Look at its piddly little arms! It's great how can people not like that little freakshow?
If I didn't already have zero money for new Eldar I'd buy one as well.
It IS adorable.
I freaking love the Direwolf. It's like it showed up for an audition to be in Battletech but accidentally wandered on to the wrong set and everyone just figured it was supposed to be there.
Every time someone tries to talk me out of something I end up wanting it even more (eg all the hate on the Direwolf has me wanting one all the more!)
Overread, for the love of the Omnissiah, you don't want that Direwolf. Even if Forgeworld paid me £50 to have one on the house, I'd still tell them to take a walk.
Its THAT friggin bad.
So.............. now I need 2
You don't seem to understand how unbelievably horrible that thing looks.
You obviously need four.
I hadn't seen this new mini and had to google it. Look at its piddly little arms! It's great how can people not like that little freakshow?
If I didn't already have zero money for new Eldar I'd buy one as well.
It IS adorable.
I really want a version of that scaled for the epic game. I'd include it in my IG army as a little robotic pet or mascot.
Every time someone tries to talk me out of something I end up wanting it even more (eg all the hate on the Direwolf has me wanting one all the more!)
Overread, for the love of the Omnissiah, you don't want that Direwolf. Even if Forgeworld paid me £50 to have one on the house, I'd still tell them to take a walk.
Its THAT friggin bad.
So.............. now I need 2
You don't seem to understand how unbelievably horrible that thing looks.
You obviously need four.
I hadn't seen this new mini and had to google it. Look at its piddly little arms! It's great how can people not like that little freakshow?
If I didn't already have zero money for new Eldar I'd buy one as well.
It IS adorable.
I really want a version of that scaled for the epic game. I'd include it in my IG army as a little robotic pet or mascot.
It... already is. AT scale is the proper scale for titans in Epic.
alextroy wrote: You mean a few of seconds per model per turn of them game, right? And that assumes you have a player who can decide on that move in an instant.
40 models times 5 seconds per model means three more minutes per turn.
5 seconds per model? What the hell kinda slow @$$ people do you play against?
I played jetbike Eldar for a decade when they had the move-shoot-move rule before and it never took more than 5 seconds to move my entire unit.
So even if it averages 1 second per model, that's less than a minute more per turn. That's 5-7 minutes more per game tops.
If that bothers you, maybe 40k isn't the game for you.
Sure players COULD take longer to make these extra moves, but it SHOULDN'T take that long. If it does, blame the slow player, not the game.
What I wanna know now is if BIKE still have auto 6" for Advance, does that also mean an auto 6" for a BF move?
If so, Windriders might actually have a purpose again.
And Shroud Runners would be annoying as hell
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No they can't. Read the 2nd bullet point on BF rules. The move after shooting counts as a Normal Move, Any rules for Advance therefore don't apply.
Why does no one ever read the context? I am saying that *IF* Bikes ALSO get an auto-6" BF move (to match their current auto-6" Advance) then they will be able to move NORMAL (ie without Advancing) shoot and then BF 6".
I am NOT saying they could Advance AND BF in the same turn, but that it's very likely they will get an auto-6" BF move written into their datasheet.
Afterall, Eldar Jetbikes had a 6" move after shooting for several editions prior to 8th taking it away. If GW is given back move-shoot-move, it only makes sense to give Jetbikes their full 6" back
What I wanna know now is if BIKE still have auto 6" for Advance, does that also mean an auto 6" for a BF move?
If so, Windriders might actually have a purpose again.
And Shroud Runners would be annoying as hell
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No they can't. Read the 2nd bullet point on BF rules. The move after shooting counts as a Normal Move, Any rules for Advance therefore don't apply.
Why does no one ever read the context? I am saying that *IF* Bikes ALSO get an auto-6" BF move (to match their current auto-6" Advance) then they will be able to move NORMAL (ie without Advancing) shoot and then BF 6".
I am NOT saying they could Advance AND BF in the same turn, but that it's very likely they will get an auto-6" BF move written into their datasheet.
Afterall, Eldar Jetbikes had a 6" move after shooting for several editions prior to 8th taking it away. If GW is given back move-shoot-move, it only makes sense to give Jetbikes their full 6" back
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Because context has nothing to do with what I wrote. The fact you mentioned auto Advance of 6" making you think they might get an auto BF indicated you thought it was an Advance move. I was just pointing out something you may have missed.
I also never said anything about you thinking they could Advance and BF in the same turn.
A Battle Focus move counts as a Normal Move, so any rules a unit might have that allows them to auto move 6" when they advance wouldn't apply. They'd still need to roll that D6 when they BF-Move after shooting.
It's also even further restrictive as the BF rule itself states you cant charge so any rules a unit might have that would allow them to advance and charge, also don't apply.
How about we wait for the full rules and data sheets to drop before anyone starts screaming at the sky.
I dont think anyone has any allusions GW will royaly screw the dex up and will be in dire need of several FAQ because people will notice obvious errors or misinterpretation of rules resulting in absurdity, geenral powercreep and unexpected power combo wombos which will be OP..
Octovol wrote: A Battle Focus move counts as a Normal Move, so any rules a unit might have that allows them to auto move 6" when they advance wouldn't apply. They'd still need to roll that D6 when they BF-Move after shooting.
That's absolutely correct...for now. Which is why I'm expecting GW to add a clause in the rule that allows Eldar BIKE units to auto Advance 6" to ALSO apply to BF.
I started playing Eldar in 4th ed and Eldar Jetbikes had a 6" move AFTER shooting rule from then until 8th ed.
So if GW is given move-shoot-move BACK to Eldar, it would be a missed opportunity for them not to give the full 6" back to JETBIKES.
If this happens, jetbikes will be able to EITHER:
Move 22" (16" move + 6" Advance) and shoot only their Catapults (because Cannons and Scatters are Heavy) or:
Move 16", shoot any of their weapons (Heavy or otherwise) and THEN be able to move 6" (no roll needed because it will be on their datasheet)
I am not saying that I desperately want this to happen, merely that it 100% makes sense that it should considering it's the way Jetbikes operated for over a decade.
Who knows, maybe they won't add the auto-6" BF to bikes? 7th ed Scatterbikes still need to be punished, right?
That's absolutely correct...for now. Which is why I'm expecting GW to add a clause in the rule that allows Eldar BIKE units to auto Advance 6" to ALSO apply to BF.
An expectation that they'll rewrite it seems... iffy.
Especially with the fairly widespread view that things will need to be toned down, not up.
That's absolutely correct...for now. Which is why I'm expecting GW to add a clause in the rule that allows Eldar BIKE units to auto Advance 6" to ALSO apply to BF.
An expectation that they'll rewrite it seems... iffy.
Especially with the fairly widespread view that things will need to be toned down, not up.
I won't be surprised if they dont add auto-6" BF to Bikes, but it just seems like a no-brainer. Bikes already get auto-6 for Advancing and they had move-shoot-move for over a decade before 8th ed.
It just seems so obvious to write their rule as such "when determining the distance a bike unit will Advance or move as part of Battle Focus, do not roll, the distance can be up to 6"
Or something to that affect
If they DON'T apply it to BF, then I hope they remove the auto-6 Advance as well. It would be inconsistent to have one but not the other.
Argive wrote: How about we wait for the full rules and data sheets to drop before anyone starts screaming at the sky.
I dont think anyone has any allusions GW will royaly screw the dex up and will be in dire need of several FAQ because people will notice obvious errors or misinterpretation of rules resulting in absurdity, geenral powercreep and unexpected power combo wombos which will be OP..
The question is how bad..
I'll start a custom trait that lets you roll 2 dice for Battle Focus (or just a flat 4"), followed by errata upon errata to "fix" it into worthlessness
Article also mentions each Farseer in your force will let you re-roll one of the dice.
Interesting the dice are applied before you roll, which somewhat mitigates the overall usefulness to me, as they don’t let you avoid botched rolls as we might normally expect.
Nevelon wrote: My main issue with move shoot move is the time it’s going to take to shuffle all the models around. With the random d6 movement I don’t think there are going to be a lot of pop up attacks where you can totally hide again. Will be nice to help dictate the range of the fight, but the randomness will make it hard to exploit.
There might be strats that can impact it. Would expect an auto-6 for a CP. but that’s one unit a turn.
If I may slightly flip that. I don’t think we’ll see many pop-up attacks relying on a high withdrawal move.
If a small unit, say Fire Dragons can meander a couple of inches out of cover and into view and blast something? They’ve got a decent chance of making it back out of LoS. Whereas someone not really thinking it through and gambling for a 6” withdrawal to save them is most likely to get caught with their trousers down.
It also allows to scuttle out of one bit of terrain, shoot, then scuttle on to the next.
Advancing through pockets of cover is the way I picture the ability used, though poking a head out a pop a shot before slinking back under a rock also suits.
Article also mentions each Farseer in your force will let you re-roll one of the dice.
Interesting the dice are applied before you roll, which somewhat mitigates the overall usefulness to me, as they don’t let you avoid botched rolls as we might normally expect.
Rolling all the 1's gunna suck But at least having the potential of a guranteed 6 on something tanky with decent invuln is nice.
It would be nice if my wraithseer survives a bit longer
Article also mentions each Farseer in your force will let you re-roll one of the dice.
Interesting the dice are applied before you roll, which somewhat mitigates the overall usefulness to me, as they don’t let you avoid botched rolls as we might normally expect.
Thematically I like that quite a lot, with Miracle dice 'saving' you from a botched roll whereas the Eldar ability is foreseeing so you are guided to the correct roll before rolling.
I'm actually looking forward to using Strands of Fate, seeing this layout makes it look a lot easier than when I read the first leak.
Nevelon wrote: I wonder if you could use 2 to make a 12” charge.
Nope. The rule specifically states that if it's a 2d6 or more sort of roll you replace one of the rolls with the Strands dice, and roll the additional dice as normal.
Nevelon wrote: I wonder if you could use 2 to make a 12” charge.
Nope. The rule specifically states that if it's a 2d6 or more sort of role, you replace one of the tolls with the Strands dice, and roll the additional dice as normal.
Guaranteed 7 on 2d6 is not shabby though. Considering Ive lost games because I couldn't roll a 7 (with runes of fate re-roll!) on a doom/guide/portect test its a vast improvement
Article also mentions each Farseer in your force will let you re-roll one of the dice.
Interesting the dice are applied before you roll, which somewhat mitigates the overall usefulness to me, as they don’t let you avoid botched rolls as we might normally expect.
Thematically I like that quite a lot, with Miracle dice 'saving' you from a botched roll whereas the Eldar ability is foreseeing so you are guided to the correct roll before rolling.
I'm actually looking forward to using Strands of Fate, seeing this layout makes it look a lot easier than when I read the first leak.
You guys made me check my Sisters codex again, still says you replace the die before you roll - did this get changed somewhere?
Nevelon wrote: I wonder if you could use 2 to make a 12” charge.
Nope. The rule specifically states that if it's a 2d6 or more sort of role, you replace one of the tolls with the Strands dice, and roll the additional dice as normal.
Guaranteed 7 on 2d6 is not shabby though.
Considering Ive lost games because I couldn't roll a 7 (with runes of fate re-roll!) on a doom/guide/portect test its a vast improvement
Definitely. Provided you’ve the relevant dice, you’re guaranteed to make short to medium charges. That in itself could be game winning.
Also, am I reading it right, if I have say, four dice which allow me to fate To Hit rolls, there’s nothing stopping me expending all four on a single model’s attacks? Or indeed all the Wounds if that’s what the dice allow.
Can someone explain to me how these strats work? It reads like if I just take one of each weapon, the strat still works on the whole unit (as opposed to just the attacks of the model with the indicated weapon), but that doesn't seem right.
Unless there is more rules in the full codex, I don’t see anything about one die per model/phase.
So feel free to blow them all at once?
Which was my thought on the 12” charge. Those are the rules for if you replace one of the die in a multi-roll. Would there be an exception for doing both? Might be worth a FAQ, but RAW I agree that one is probably what we get.
Can someone explain to me how these strats work? It reads like if I just take one of each weapon, the strat still works on the whole unit (as opposed to just the attacks of the model with the indicated weapon), but that doesn't seem right.
Yes that seems to be exactly how it works. It seems a bit odd to say the least.
Article also mentions each Farseer in your force will let you re-roll one of the dice.
Interesting the dice are applied before you roll, which somewhat mitigates the overall usefulness to me, as they don’t let you avoid botched rolls as we might normally expect.
Thematically I like that quite a lot, with Miracle dice 'saving' you from a botched roll whereas the Eldar ability is foreseeing so you are guided to the correct roll before rolling.
I'm actually looking forward to using Strands of Fate, seeing this layout makes it look a lot easier than when I read the first leak.
Oh good, in addition to everything else they've taken away from us in the past month, they now give Eldar better miracle dice. Wonderful.
I'm going to bet when the new Eldar Codex drops they'll FAQ Miracle dice to not work on damage either so we'll REALLY have nothing going for us.
Well those harlequin weapon stratagems are gak. We have to pay 4CP a turn just to get our weapons to do what they’re supposed to? I’d rather have just kept the original profiles.
wict01 wrote: Well those harlequin weapon stratagems are gak. We have to pay 4CP a turn just to get our weapons to do what they’re supposed to? I’d rather have just kept the original profiles.
But the weapons never had these abilities. Also 2 of them are mutually exclusive on the same unit, and you may not be using the Caress against every unit.
So after giving 'quins all these distinct weapons in the plastic release, the just lumped them into one profile and handed out strats
Actually that's not a bad idea really. Considering that the unit is designed to run with multiple weapons within it, that can be a pain when you have to deal with that every single turn of the game you use the weapons. High variety weapon profiles in a unit can be a problem because it complicates things. Shifting it to a single generic profile and then having a stratagem that pings off select ones at select moments is a neat idea. It makes those moments where you have to deal with the variation far fewer and speeds up the general flow of combat during the rest of the game.
It's the same reason GW gave the units in the Warcry battle parties for AoS the same weapon profile, with one or two having something as exotic as an extra attack or such. It meant you could have 10 models with basically 10 different weapons actually work in the game instead of bogging it down with 10 "slightly different" weapon profiles to contend with.
I just don’t get how it’s too much for people to keep track of to monitor what weapons they’re swinging. Harlequin squads aren’t too big and you don’t have too many of em, it’s really not a pain swinging different weapon profiles.
So lets see if I got this correct. I roll my strands of fate dice at the start of the battle round for a combat patrol mission. I retain a 1 and a 2. Now during the battle round I can only use that 1 to get an unmodified 6 for an advance instead of rolling. The 2 can only be used for a charge roll instead of rolling? Then those retained dice are used up for the next battle round I roll new strands of fate dice?
Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote: I just don’t get how it’s too much for people to keep track of to monitor what weapons they’re swinging. Harlequin squads aren’t too big and you don’t have too many of em, it’s really not a pain swinging different weapon profiles.
Exactly this. I also play black Templars and if it’s fine for sword brethren to swing 5 different weapons in close combat without having them differentiated by strats then it should be fine for everyone else too.
You can do it even worse with ork nobz lmao, complete mix of power klawz, sawz, choppas, big choppas, power stabbas, and kombi weapons. Even then though you just have to like, think about it beforehand for a second.
The basic harlequin melee weapon stats aren't too bad, but just wondering what led them to add the stratagems to fully use them?
Hooray for the voidweaver haywire cannon! Awkward rear cannon aside, its one of the reasons I was drawn to the faction and been looking for an excuse to get another. Just holding off incase they have a combat patrol boxset around the corner...
l0k1 wrote: So lets see if I got this correct. I roll my strands of fate dice at the start of the battle round for a combat patrol mission. I retain a 1 and a 2. Now during the battle round I can only use that 1 to get an unmodified 6 for an advance instead of rolling. The 2 can only be used for a charge roll instead of rolling? Then those retained dice are used up for the next battle round I roll new strands of fate dice?
Yes, that’s my understanding.
But don’t forget you roll 6 dice regardless of game size. And farseers will let you re-roll one of them. You then get to pick which ones you keep (depending on game size)
So if you rolled an even 1-6 spread, and you knew you needed to make a clutch charge with your banshees, you might pick the 1 and the 2. But if you wanted to ensure someone ate a brightlance to the face, you might pick the 4 and the 5 instead.
Obviously you are probably never going to get the even spread, so you take what dice think will help you the most from what’s available. If you roll nothing but 3’s, move up the psychers and unleash the smites.
Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote: I just don’t get how it’s too much for people to keep track of to monitor what weapons they’re swinging. Harlequin squads aren’t too big and you don’t have too many of em, it’s really not a pain swinging different weapon profiles.
Exactly this. I also play black Templars and if it’s fine for sword brethren to swing 5 different weapons in close combat without having them differentiated by strats then it should be fine for everyone else too.
Nobody is giving their Sword Brethren one of each weapon though...
vipoid wrote: Regarding the new Harlequin weapons, is there any point in taking the Kiss over the Embrace?
The fact that there's nothing stopping you from taking or doing both? and Kiss works whenever you fight instead of specifically when you charge/heroic intervention.
Can someone explain to me how these strats work? It reads like if I just take one of each weapon, the strat still works on the whole unit (as opposed to just the attacks of the model with the indicated weapon), but that doesn't seem right.
Yes that seems to be exactly how it works. It seems a bit odd to say the least.
According to leaks the unit has those key words automatically. You aren't buying anything. So it's just innate abilities the unit has.
Can someone explain to me how these strats work? It reads like if I just take one of each weapon, the strat still works on the whole unit (as opposed to just the attacks of the model with the indicated weapon), but that doesn't seem right.
Yes that seems to be exactly how it works. It seems a bit odd to say the least.
According to leaks the unit has those key words automatically. You aren't buying anything. So it's just innate abilities the unit has.
I think you still need to choose the weapon, so it's a matter of WYSIWYG. If you kill all your caresses first, you can't use the stratagem any more.
I think while nice, they are not required. More important as points go up.
In smaller games you only get to pick a few of the dice you roll. So unless you get a whole lot of bad ones, not a big deal. In larger games you use most of them, so ensuring they all have decent numbers on them.
But in large games a single die roll gets drowned out in the volume. Still good to have a sure thing in a pinch though.
New harlequin weapons are nice, bring back its unique abilities back in the game, I was quite upset when 8th edition hit and all the weapons are just different stat block.
The same stat line is an overall upgrade from old profile, fluffwise the weapons in their inactive form should be the same since it's basically just unarmed punching and kicking. But yeah having to spend CP to "activate" them kinda suck.
l0k1 wrote: Thanks! Yeah looks like Farseers are almost a must now. I wonder if there will be strats to manipulate the fate dice
I’d put money on it. Probably some warlord traits and relics as well.
The question is how good they are and if they are worth using, or if those resources would be better spent elsewhere.
Unfortunately, farseers have been an auto take since I've started playing Eldar at beginning of 8th.
Its probably one of the most annoying aspects of the army.
They either are crucial MW dealing machines or a critical force multiplier.
Lots of Eldar players rejoiced at the emergence of Expert Crafters as an army trait because it meant we were no longer beholden to a farseer Doom + Guide to have reliable units which we were paying premium for because of said doom and guide. In the era of re-rolls doom + guide were an auto take every time.
Can someone explain to me how these strats work? It reads like if I just take one of each weapon, the strat still works on the whole unit (as opposed to just the attacks of the model with the indicated weapon), but that doesn't seem right.
Yes that seems to be exactly how it works. It seems a bit odd to say the least.
According to leaks the unit has those key words automatically. You aren't buying anything. So it's just innate abilities the unit has.
The Community article seems to have ambiguous wording. It seems to say that arming a model gives a model that particular keyword, but the strats say <weapon> unit as if the entire unit were armed with that weapon. So if you have a unit with mixed weapons, and the strat A Deadly Embrace is used, do you roll dice equal to the models in the unit or just the number that is actually armed with Embraces?
These Harlequin weapon names now that I think about it play up the creepy clown image more. What's next? Harlequin's Fondle?
"Guardsman, show me on the doll where the nasty clown touched you"
Can someone explain to me how these strats work? It reads like if I just take one of each weapon, the strat still works on the whole unit (as opposed to just the attacks of the model with the indicated weapon), but that doesn't seem right.
Yes that seems to be exactly how it works. It seems a bit odd to say the least.
According to leaks the unit has those key words automatically. You aren't buying anything. So it's just innate abilities the unit has.
The Community article seems to have ambiguous wording. It seems to say that arming a model gives a model that particular keyword, but the strats say <weapon> unit as if the entire unit were armed with that weapon. So if you have a unit with mixed weapons, and the strat A Deadly Embrace is used, do you roll dice equal to the models in the unit or just the number that is actually armed with Embraces?
These Harlequin weapon names now that I think about it play up the creepy clown image more. What's next? Harlequin's Fondle?
"Guardsman, show me on the doll where the nasty clown touched you"
You have to have an Embrace to use A Deadly Embrace, but every model in the unit "acts like" it has one for the phase the stratagem is used. If you only have Kisses, no A Deadly Embrace at all. If you have 11 Kisses and n Embrace and use A Deadly Embrace, you roll 12 dice.
"Each variant gives the model that carries it a different keyword, which can be triggered with Stratagems to really unlock the devastating impact of these unconventional weapons."
The strategem rules state:
"Use this stratagem in the fight phase when a <insert key word> unit is selected to fight"
"Each variant gives the model that carries it a different keyword, which can be triggered with Stratagems to really unlock the devastating impact of these unconventional weapons."
The strategem rules state:
"Use this stratagem in the fight phase when a <insert key word> unit is selected to fight"
Yep I can see an FAQ is needed straight away..
I think this falls under the heading of "check the actual wording on the datasheet" rather than trusting the WHC description of how it works.
l0k1 wrote: Thanks! Yeah looks like Farseers are almost a must now. I wonder if there will be strats to manipulate the fate dice
I’d put money on it. Probably some warlord traits and relics as well.
The question is how good they are and if they are worth using, or if those resources would be better spent elsewhere.
Unfortunately, farseers have been an auto take since I've started playing Eldar at beginning of 8th.
Its probably one of the most annoying aspects of the army.
They either are crucial MW dealing machines or a critical force multiplier.
Lots of Eldar players rejoiced at the emergence of Expert Crafters as an army trait because it meant we were no longer beholden to a farseer Doom + Guide to have reliable units which we were paying premium for because of said doom and guide. In the era of re-rolls doom + guide were an auto take every time.
I knew this was always the case but I was thinking that running a farseer and an Aurtarch for reroll 1s aura would be a nice balance but if each farseer get to mess with dice then running 2 would probably stay the go to option
Overread wrote: Considering that the unit is designed to run with multiple weapons within it, that can be a pain when you have to deal with that every single turn of the game you use the weapons. High variety weapon profiles in a unit can be a problem because it complicates things. Shifting it to a single generic profile and then having a stratagem that pings off select ones at select moments is a neat idea. It makes those moments where you have to deal with the variation far fewer and speeds up the general flow of combat during the rest of the game.
If these were 30 boy units of Orks, with the options of 6 potential weapon combos on each model, you might have a point. But this is Harlequins, of which you maybe have 20-30 in an army at most, and it's 3 different weapons.
The problem with this kind of design philosophy is it burns valuable CP just to get the weapons to work, CP that could be otherwise used on other strats. A full Harlequin's Cuddle (Embrace, Kiss, Caress) burns 4 CP! And if there should be multiple Harlequin units, only one can get the stratagem effect in the same turn. Did the rest just suddenly forget to hit the On switch on their weapons?
Yet we don't see a stratagem for say a SM to get their Melta weapon effect. Overall I don't think any race or faction should be burning CPs just to get their special weapons to do something they should do as standard.
I see both sides of this. You're not wrong that Harlequins have just a few melee options to begin with, so it's mildly pointless. HOWEVER, ease of rolling and no "you modeled the wrong weapon so it's not good now" syndrome are highlights. Last I checked for prior Harlequin lists, I don't think they varied the weapons much?
EviscerationPlague wrote: HOWEVER, ease of rolling and no "you modeled the wrong weapon so it's not good now" syndrome are highlights.
I don't consider this a real concern. If the vagaries of the GW's random rule and meta changes means that Weapon X is slightly worse and Weapon Y is slightly better, then that's just the way it is. It'll switch back eventually, or something else will come along. I don't see it as an excuse to simply throw the baby out with the bathwater, genericise all the weapons and, worse, make them strats.
"Oh no, this weapon isn't perfectly optimal for this specific situation! Truly my life is over!". Utter rot.
It was 3 weapons. It wasn't complex, nor was it complicated. Now it's just stupid.
One of the shroud runner don't have cable connect to the gun, it'd probably be better they just remove the cable on all models, so it's easier to swap bit or using it on other models.
I do agree, having weapon effects rely on CP just feels weird. Either a weapon has it, or it doesn't. What is CP really supposed to be then, other than just a game mechanic? It's supposed to highlight the initiative of battlefield leaders, is it not?
KillerAngel wrote: I do agree, having weapon effects rely on CP just feels weird. Either a weapon has it, or it doesn't. What is CP really supposed to be then, other than just a game mechanic? It's supposed to highlight the initiative of battlefield leaders, is it not?
It seems to be this nebulous combination of actual tactics by leaders or enforced plot device.
Weapons however should have stable effects. I mean there are separate weapon profiles for power axes vs power swords vs spears etc... We don't have "generic plague weapons", instead we have all sorts of swords, knives, flails, and so on. We don't have "generic power weapon" and use this stratagem to make it hit like an axe and then another to make it pierce like a sword.
If all those other squads can have mixed weapons, why is it suddenly so hard to keep track of 3 types of Harlequin weapons?
A note from one of the places I order from RE: the new Eldar/Chaos box:
"While we unfortunately only have a limited supply of this set up for per-order, there will be a second wave incoming within the next 6 months. We will have the second wave available to order as soon as we have it in stock."
Iracundus wrote: We don't have "generic power weapon" and use this stratagem to make it hit like an axe and then another to make it pierce like a sword.
Two specific units in the upcoming Chaos Codex are about to.
Iracundus wrote: If all those other squads can have mixed weapons, why is it suddenly so hard to keep track of 3 types of Harlequin weapons?
It's not, but now we can expect a litany of people going "It's because of balance/tournament meta/having the wrong weapon!" and other nonsense excuses that weren't a problem 3 months ago, but apparently are now.
Iracundus wrote: The problem with this kind of design philosophy is it burns valuable CP just to get the weapons to work, CP that could be otherwise used on other strats. A full Harlequin's Cuddle (Embrace, Kiss, Caress) burns 4 CP! And if there should be multiple Harlequin units, only one can get the stratagem effect in the same turn. Did the rest just suddenly forget to hit the On switch on their weapons?
Yet we don't see a stratagem for say a SM to get their Melta weapon effect. Overall I don't think any race or faction should be burning CPs just to get their special weapons to do something they should do as standard.
Yeah after seeing this, the only good thing is that I just likely won't waste any money on Harlies. I'll put it more into Craftworlds, which is a huge shame because I really love the Harlies aesthetic.
KillerAngel wrote: I do agree, having weapon effects rely on CP just feels weird. Either a weapon has it, or it doesn't. What is CP really supposed to be then, other than just a game mechanic? It's supposed to highlight the initiative of battlefield leaders, is it not?
It seems to be this nebulous combination of actual tactics by leaders or enforced plot device.
Weapons however should have stable effects. I mean there are separate weapon profiles for power axes vs power swords vs spears etc... We don't have "generic plague weapons", instead we have all sorts of swords, knives, flails, and so on. We don't have "generic power weapon" and use this stratagem to make it hit like an axe and then another to make it pierce like a sword.
If all those other squads can have mixed weapons, why is it suddenly so hard to keep track of 3 types of Harlequin weapons?
Using Plague Marines isn't the best defense here since nobody is using them for melee with the silly ass "1 model may take X" equipment crap.
Daedalus81 wrote: Ah, yes. The Harlequin weapons. So distinct and useful that...
Truly a great loss with the new base being better than all the other old versions.
Given that most Harlequin armies are massive hordes, sometimes with 120-150 models, having 3 different weapons was seen as too tough to remember.
Meanwhile, in the land of Space Marines:
When I was joking about Marines having 18 different types of bolter, I thought I was just engaging in a bit of light Internet Hyperbole. There were probably around 12-ish in reality, right? Nope!
48. Fourty eight.
And I left off the Combi-Plasma/Flamer/Melta/Grav entries. Those woudl take it to 52. And I wasn't even considering Relics.
Hot garbage, I legitimately lost all interest in continuing to work on my Harlies. On the shelf they go. I can only hope that Chaos doesn't end up with something equally as stupid. Daemon weapons all turn out to be the same thing but you have the privilege of using CP to make them operate in a way that is baseline for similar weapons in other armies!
Seriously, to me this is the same as if you took Volkite weapons and turned them into a stratagem. Is that a bad idea? No. But at least have some damn parity. I am so sick of GW changing design philosophy codex to codex without regard to how other factions abilities and weapons work. It was annoying when Space Marines got doctrines for free without conditions at the same time that Necrons got Command Protocols which have a litany of conditions for incredibly minor effects. I have been playing this game for over 20 years and never have I been closer to just dropping this game once and for all. 7th edition chased me away but I kept my stuff knowing that one day I might come back, now with 9th I get the feeling that I just can't enjoy this game again.
I honestly enjoy maybe 1 in 10 games of 9th because of how one sided they end up being. I am gonna try the 2022 CA missions but I have so little faith in GW being able to even accomplish a functioning game.
What bugs me particularly is this apparent double standard.
48 bolter type weapons, yet somehow 3 Harlie weapons are "too hard" or "too confusing".
It's like how there are so many supplements for so many individual chapters, yet all Craftworlds get lumped into 1 Codex instead of say having Codex Biel-tan, and now the Harlequins are being lumped in too, after only relatively recently even getting different Troupes differentiated. I actually liked the Iyanden supplement because it was probably the first in depth background on a specific Craftworld in like...ever.
H.B.M.C. wrote: When I was joking about Marines having 18 different types of bolter, I thought I was just engaging in a bit of light Internet Hyperbole. There were probably around 12-ish in reality, right? Nope!
48.
Fourty eight.
And I left off the Combi-Plasma/Flamer/Melta/Grav entries. Those woudl take it to 52. And I wasn't even considering Relics.
Holy hell...
Sure, but you won't find 3 different types of bolter on a single unit. One and sometimes a special heavy version is about all we deal with.
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Iracundus wrote: What bugs me particularly is this apparent double standard.
H.B.M.C. wrote: When I was joking about Marines having 18 different types of bolter, I thought I was just engaging in a bit of light Internet Hyperbole. There were probably around 12-ish in reality, right? Nope!
48.
Fourty eight.
And I left off the Combi-Plasma/Flamer/Melta/Grav entries. Those woudl take it to 52. And I wasn't even considering Relics.
Holy hell...
Sure, but you won't find 3 different types of bolter on a single unit. One and sometimes a special heavy version is about all we deal with.
Intercessors and heavy intercessors would have a word with you. Heavy intercessors have what 7 types of bolters?
Arbiter_Shade wrote: Seriously, to me this is the same as if you took Volkite weapons and turned them into a stratagem. Is that a bad idea? No. But at least have some damn parity.
Flak missiles, hellfire shells, special issue ammo, smoke launchers, melta bombs, frag assault launchers all come to mind.
H.B.M.C. wrote: When I was joking about Marines having 18 different types of bolter, I thought I was just engaging in a bit of light Internet Hyperbole. There were probably around 12-ish in reality, right? Nope!
48.
Fourty eight.
And I left off the Combi-Plasma/Flamer/Melta/Grav entries. Those woudl take it to 52. And I wasn't even considering Relics.
Holy hell...
Sure, but you won't find 3 different types of bolter on a single unit. One and sometimes a special heavy version is about all we deal with.
Intercessors and heavy intercessors would have a word with you. Heavy intercessors have what 7 types of bolters?
6, via a heavy bolt rifle and one heavy bolter per 5, then the assault and heavy variants of those.
That list of bolt weapons really could be condensed though since some are identical (storm bolter, combi bolter, twin boltgun) as far as rules go, and twin and master crafted are basically just keywords for double shots and +1 damage respectively.
Iracundus wrote: What bugs me particularly is this apparent double standard.
It isn't the same.
It really is. Just because SM units are sometimes broken into different datasheets based on which trivial gun variation they're carrying doesn't really save it from being a double standard.
You're just being taken in by the illusion of unit variety in the SM codex, which GW uses to justify selling more SM kits.
Daedalus81 wrote: They're all required to take the same bolter per squad. It isn't the same thing.
You are grasping at the smallest clump of straws here imaginable to justify why 3 weapons had to be converted to a generic profile.
Daedalus81 wrote: Sure, but you won't find 3 different types of bolter on a single unit. One and sometimes a special heavy version is about all we deal with.
And that's moving the goal posts.
What difference does it matter if it's the same unit? You can still have 5 different types of ranged weapons in a Tac Squad (7 if you count grenades), 3 of them versions of a bolt weapon, so why is 3 in a Harli unit so hard to grasp?
And, again, this specific terminology you've invented: "deal with". When has anyone ever complained about the anguish or the taxing nature of "dealing" with Harli weapons? When was it ever an odeal? Has this ever been a complaint? "I love Harlis, but having to deal with 3 different types of melee weapon... it's just a bridge too far!"
Daedalus81 wrote: They're all required to take the same bolter per squad. It isn't the same thing.
You are grasping at the smallest clump of straws here imaginable to justify why 3 weapons had to be converted to a generic profile.
Daedalus81 wrote: Sure, but you won't find 3 different types of bolter on a single unit. One and sometimes a special heavy version is about all we deal with.
And that's moving the goal posts.
What difference does it matter if it's the same unit? You can still have 5 different types of ranged weapons in a Tac Squad (7 if you count grenades), 3 of them versions of a bolt weapon, so why is 3 in a Harli unit so hard to grasp?
And, again, this specific terminology you've invented: "deal with". When has anyone ever complained about the anguish or the taxing nature of "dealing" with Harli weapons? When was it ever an odeal? Has this ever been a complaint? "I love Harlis, but having to deal with 3 different types of melee weapon... it's just a bridge too far!"
The bolter variants have type, range, shot, AP, strength, and damage variety. That means your movement, targeting, and outcome can vary widely. Harlequin melee just...is not even anywhere close to that interesting.
Seeing both Battle Focus and the new Miracle dice, this codex is BONKERS. Getting 2D6 dice A TURN where they nerfed Sisters down to 1-2 depending on some other rules they might have. WOW.
Togusa wrote: Seeing both Battle Focus and the new Miracle dice, this codex is BONKERS. Getting 2D6 dice A TURN where they nerfed Sisters down to 1-2 depending on some other rules they might have. WOW.
Iracundus wrote: What bugs me particularly is this apparent double standard.
48 bolter type weapons, yet somehow 3 Harlie weapons are "too hard" or "too confusing".
It's like how there are so many supplements for so many individual chapters, yet all Craftworlds get lumped into 1 Codex instead of say having Codex Biel-tan, and now the Harlequins are being lumped in too, after only relatively recently even getting different Troupes differentiated. I actually liked the Iyanden supplement because it was probably the first in depth background on a specific Craftworld in like...ever.
You'd have a point if people were defending the 40 Bolter entries.
It's more that people are acting like this change is a good thing, like 3 whole weapon types was something Harli players were stuck having to 'deal' with.
Iracundus wrote: What bugs me particularly is this apparent double standard.
48 bolter type weapons, yet somehow 3 Harlie weapons are "too hard" or "too confusing".
It's like how there are so many supplements for so many individual chapters, yet all Craftworlds get lumped into 1 Codex instead of say having Codex Biel-tan, and now the Harlequins are being lumped in too, after only relatively recently even getting different Troupes differentiated. I actually liked the Iyanden supplement because it was probably the first in depth background on a specific Craftworld in like...ever.
You'd have a point if people were defending the 40 Bolter entries.
You mean how Daedalus81 is 3 posts above yours? Saying all those bolter entries are interesting while Harlie weapons are not?
(yes this is a joke)
