GW developed the game, setting and aesthetic. They put out the models. Then 3rd parties come along and make their take.
Kind of one of the reasons why all the designers I mentioned up there save one don't do GW proxies, but rather their own thing, was to show that it's really not the case
As already stated, yes, because it hearken back to the attitude of "All recasters are low quality!", which was never true, only it shifts it to the apparent "talentless losers" who make models for 3D printing, also not true.
l0k1 wrote:Warp Spooders sound fun and annoying, but man I don't want to pick up any more finecrap lol
Artel W makes some very nice not warp spiders.
bullyboy wrote:Well that article on Phoenix Lords was absolutely worthless. Also, going to be a shame to have good rules for resin kits I have absolutely zero desire to buy.
Not totally worthless. It points to why Dire Avengers are moving to elite. It's so Asurmen can give them obsec.
I've been considering Artel W for the Warp Spiders and Fire Dragons for a long time now. Since they're not getting the plastic treatment I may finally pull the trigger. I was really hoping GW would do plastic Swooping Hawks this batch too.
The movement shenanigans with Warp Spiders look pretty fun, it's nice having an anti-charge unit. The only other ones that spring to mind are the Grav tanks that can give -2" to enemy charges and free disengage with a Stratagem. And of course Custodes can use tanglefoot grenades.
A bit late and I've only got the Artel W Warp Spiders, but they are really incredible miniatures. Easily the best resin miniatures I have ever put together.....no flash or mould lines, really crisp and go together super easily. They are far superior to any FW or other resin miniature I have ever owned. At first I was a bit bummed GW wasn't putting out new Warp Spiders, but after getting my hands on these I have a hard time believing they could make better miniatures. I would very highly recommend picking up some if you like the look and want to use the unit.
Really great praise for the Artel W Warp Spiders. I've been split between them and the Wargame Exclusive Warp Spiders which have a really unique design for the Exarch
Really great praise for the Artel W Warp Spiders. I've been split between them and the Wargame Exclusive Warp Spiders which have a really unique design for the Exarch
I have the wargame exclusive ones. When I bought them the choice was between them and the ones from Ghost. The WE casts are not as good as what Artel W produces. It's not a huge difference in quality, but it's noticeable. The WE models will have visible print lines, for example. Not sure if they will show up after painting though. Another difference is that the Artel models come in more parts. The WE models are generally one complete body with the arms, gun support and power cable separate. The exarch is one piece body, 4 separate blades for the back, 2 pieces of tabard, and two arms with guns.
Seems like this thread devolved into a polarizing debate about 3D printing that had NOTHING to do with rules or models that GW will soon be releasing for Craftworld Eldar.
Sure would be nice to see more about what this thread is for.
I'm spitting they're asking for 350.00 NZD for Eldritch Omens. I. Knew it'd be expensive but not that much. As an Eldar player I'm not that desperate no way GW. Maybe. Maayybbee if it's decently discounted on Mighty Ape I might consider buying it. But if not, nope. No way.
By cribbing from Heinlein, Herbert, Moorcock, Lucas, Tolkein and all the others. Remember Obi Wan in RT?
What's funny here is that Moorcock, Lucas and Tolkien all did the same thing with their works. Took from other sources and adapted it into another form and mass marketed it out to people. Herbert too come to think about it.
I guess no new leaks and people don’t have the discipline not to go off topic.
We must surely only be days away from some random influencer flipping through the entire book piracy-enablingly slowly on YouTube now though… I’m sure it’ll heat up again then.
Really great praise for the Artel W Warp Spiders. I've been split between them and the Wargame Exclusive Warp Spiders which have a really unique design for the Exarch
I have the wargame exclusive ones. When I bought them the choice was between them and the ones from Ghost. The WE casts are not as good as what Artel W produces. It's not a huge difference in quality, but it's noticeable. The WE models will have visible print lines, for example. Not sure if they will show up after painting though. Another difference is that the Artel models come in more parts. The WE models are generally one complete body with the arms, gun support and power cable separate. The exarch is one piece body, 4 separate blades for the back, 2 pieces of tabard, and two arms with guns.
The WE models look to be slightly smaller as well. All of my aspects save for the DA are still Metal so they're a bit on the smaller side so I was considering the WE models since they might fit in better with my models. Plus with the leaks we've seen on Warp Spiders I think they'll be really fun to play in 9th.
I'm also curious if they'll revamp the Shadow Spectres at all to put them in line with the long awaited improvement to the main aspects.
GW developed the game, setting and aesthetic. They put out the models. Then 3rd parties come along and make their take.
Ah yes, I was there when GW came up with the idea of Super Soldiers in bad ass armor. Totally original.
Oh and they sometimes use melee weapons. Also totally original.
I'm glad I paid for my true scale Mk2 Marine bodies and didn't give GW a cent.
Well?
Good for you!
Clearly after the first bloke wrote the first book, everyone else was just ripping them off.
Does 40K have influences from pre-dating sources? Yes. Yes it does. Of course it does. You may be familiar with the old adage “nothing new under the sun”.
Some laud Shakespeare as being particularly original. I’d wager he’s simply the best preserved playwriting of his era. And even then, Chaucer did much of it first - and was genuinely funny. Which is always a bonus.
40K, whilst it’s influences are somewhat obvious to fans of wider SciFi? Is still its own thing. It has its own specific details (such as its own entirely made up history. Naming and roughly detailing the implantation order thereof, the additional organs which turn a human into an Astartes.
Even the grandfathers of truly modern SciFi (Star Trek and Star Wars) are just interpretations of stuff that came before. And their direct influences are, of course, interpretations of stuff that came even before them. Down and down and down throughout history as we go.
That’s what media is. That’s the nature of the beast.
GW at the very least went to the bother of taking the same ingredients as others and baking their own cake. Those who simply offer alternative sculpts for GW’s signature and even pioneered sculpts? Not so much.
Like that cheapo movie studio that churns out awful movies kind of named and clearly ripping off bigger budget movies.
Wow, you guys are such busy little bees lately. Price hikes, paint guide removals, rotations, and even any little mention of 3D printing. Buzz, buzz, buzz goes the GW hive, gotta go sting the criticism badgers and save the positivity honey!
Clearly after the first bloke wrote the first book, everyone else was just ripping them off.
Does 40K have influences from pre-dating sources? Yes. Yes it does. Of course it does. You may be familiar with the old adage “nothing new under the sun”.
"Influences." IE, in GW's case, wholesale verbatim copying of concepts and themes from other existing works of fiction and setting.
The irony of this is that when GW started out, their being "influenced" was the same thing they're going after third party miniature makers for now. Look at adeptus arbites and look at judge dredd and tell me I'm wrong.
"Influences." IE, in GW's case, wholesale verbatim copying of concepts and themes from other existing works of fiction and setting.
The irony of this is that when GW started out, their being "influenced" was the same thing they're going after third party miniature makers for now. Look at adeptus arbites and look at judge dredd and tell me I'm wrong.
Those "other works of fiction and setting" have their own story of "influences".
And well, GW made those old Judge Dredd miniatures. Their first three Arbites miniatures (excluding these) looked more like SciFi-Romans. The next three miniatures and the old Enforcers for Necromunda weren't exact copies as well. Sure, the concept is the same (brutal cops with some imperial decoratives); But it's not exactly an unique idea. And they never were a major faction in 40k. Or even a faction in the game (never seen anyone who used the rules from 2nd and 3rd edition to build an army of them).
"Influences." IE, in GW's case, wholesale verbatim copying of concepts and themes from other existing works of fiction and setting.
The irony of this is that when GW started out, their being "influenced" was the same thing they're going after third party miniature makers for now. Look at adeptus arbites and look at judge dredd and tell me I'm wrong.
Those "other works of fiction and setting" have their own story of "influences".
And well, GW made those old Judge Dredd miniatures. Their first three Arbites miniatures (excluding these) looked more like SciFi-Romans. The next three miniatures and the old Enforcers for Necromunda weren't exact copies as well. Sure, the concept is the same (brutal cops with some imperial decoratives); But it's not exactly an unique idea. And they never were a major faction in 40k. Or even a faction in the game (never seen anyone who used the rules from 2nd and 3rd edition to build an army of them).
One of the coolest 40k campaigns in the history of the game (IMHO) was a Citadel Journal piece called Covert X. The idea was that a Space Marine chapter got wiped out except for their 10th company, who escaped to another planet. Because they knew their chapter would continue to be hunted, they had to go underground and disguise themselves. The antagonists were Adeptus Arbites who worked for a corrupted planetary governor- lots of special rules for custom units, Judge HQ's etc. Commander Makallan of Covert X hooked up with a crazy preacher, a Callidus who had never completed her training, an Ogryn named Buzzbox who had received experimental implants and a shady criminal known as the Fixer, who was the only one that could talk Buzzbox down when the implants were acting up.
I've been meaning to scan it and post it in the All Things Old Edition thread over in General. It's a blast, and I'd highly recommend it to anyone still playing second.
I think I have 36 or so metal Arbites, including the skinny Marauder ones, which I created "Detective" rules for- they were all low level Psykers.
Nobody hates 40k as much as 40k fans it seems. Anyone trying the "GW was influenced by xyz" argument to justify IP theft and the creatove bankruptcy of the majority of 3D modelers isn't worth talking to. Theres a huge world of difference between being influenced by something and being a direct copy of it. Its disingenuous to say GW copied things because they share similar names or arsthetics.
They might have had a character named Obi Wan, but aside from the name there was nothing in common between them (the fact that the characters full name is "Obi-Wan Sherlock Closeau" should be a pretty big hint). Naming a character in homage to inspiration is far from theft or cribbing. Invoking Obi-Wan Sherlock Closeau as an example of such demonstrates a complete failure to grasp or comprehend the topic of discussion entiry - to the extent that this should be a "Godwins Law" type thing: if you invoke Obi-Wan Closeau in an attempt to illustrate the idea that GW stole from other franchises, as opposed to being inspired by them, then you have lost the argument entirely.
Hell, maybe we should have a discussion about how Star Wars is a rippff of Dune. The spice mines of kessel? a dune reference. According to some hete, that means all of star wars is therefore stolen shamelessly from dune and thus doesn't deserve any sort of protection or recognition of the work that was put into it.
GW charges insane prices for their product. That is without a doubt. And the reality is people can download the files very easily. Either exact copies or proxies that are also high quality
The discussion is no longer if it’s moral. Or it GW ripped off Dune or whatever. The discussion is that GWs business model with miniatures will 100% change because of 3D printing
They can either adapt or they will lose out. If they were smart they would begin offering a Apple Music style of business where you go to their website and download the sanctioned files for a model. Maybe they can have ten different models for the Carnifex. All rather similar. But they all count as Carnifexes. All competition legal
They need to learn to play the new game. Or they will just totally lose enough on a lot of business. Once people get a printer. They and all their friends are not going to be buying GW models or drastically reduce buying models.
chaos0xomega wrote: Nobody hates 40k as much as 40k fans it seems. Anyone trying the "GW was influenced by xyz" argument to justify IP theft and the creatove bankruptcy of the majority of 3D modelers isn't worth talking to. Theres a huge world of difference between being influenced by something and being a direct copy of it. Its disingenuous to say GW copied things because they share similar names or arsthetics.
Glad we got that straight.
They might have had a character named Obi Wan, but aside from the name there was nothing in common between them (the fact that the characters full name is "Obi-Wan Sherlock Closeau" should be a pretty big hint). Naming a character in homage to inspiration is far from theft or cribbing. Invoking Obi-Wan Sherlock Closeau as an example of such demonstrates a complete failure to grasp or comprehend the topic of discussion entiry - to the extent that this should be a "Godwins Law" type thing: if you invoke Obi-Wan Closeau in an attempt to illustrate the idea that GW stole from other franchises, as opposed to being inspired by them, then you have lost the argument entirely.
Right. When GW does it, it's inspiration. When anyone else does it, it's theft. Got it. Thanks, Mr. Knight.
Hell, maybe we should have a discussion about how Star Wars is a rippff of Dune. The spice mines of kessel? a dune reference. According to some hete, that means all of star wars is therefore stolen shamelessly from dune and thus doesn't deserve any sort of protection or recognition of the work that was put into it.
Clearly after the first bloke wrote the first book, everyone else was just ripping them off.
Does 40K have influences from pre-dating sources? Yes. Yes it does. Of course it does. You may be familiar with the old adage “nothing new under the sun”.
"Influences." IE, in GW's case, wholesale verbatim copying of concepts and themes from other existing works of fiction and setting.
The irony of this is that when GW started out, their being "influenced" was the same thing they're going after third party miniature makers for now. Look at adeptus arbites and look at judge dredd and tell me I'm wrong.
Oh dear. You should’ve tried a different SciFi property. Happens I have a pretty decent knowledge of Judge Dredd and 2000AD, having been a fan since pretty much as long as I can remember.
GW and 2000AD are contemporaneous. Shared influences, from the state of the UK’s social, economical and political landscape at the time, to music and movies of the time.
We’re talking poorly managed post-Imperial and post-Industrial decline intermingled with the frankly magnificent buildings built with the wealth plundered from across the globe.
2000AD went with Mega Cities. 40K has Hive Cities. The two are not identical. Both are largely inspired by places such as London, which has expanded outward and continued to build on the bones of its past. Both are satires of the failed High Rises in the U.K. Billed as communities in the sky, they quickly fell into disrepair, and fell victim to ongoing social problems. As for heavy handed policing (let’s steer away from the F word, lest it prove a distraction), check out the Miner’s Strike, and how U.K. Police forces handled those.
They are satires of the same thing, created by people living in the same country at the same time exposed to the same influences. Sure, one has fed upon the other, then the other in turn. Welcome to Media. That’s how it works.
None of of it is a direct lifting. None of it is verbatim copying. At all. Look to the wider picture.
Maybe you’d like the “Genestealers are just Aliens”. Well. Kind of. I mean it’s not hard to see what inspired Space Hulk, is it? But there are multiple designs differences between Genestealers and Aliens. Genestealers of course have six limbs, bulbous heads, no prehensile tail and an ovipositor rather than a pharyngeal jaw. To breed within a population? Ovipositor stuffs in a bit of DNA. You then go and have normal for your species reproduction. Those kids are hybrids, and the birth isn’t noted as being particularly fatal. So all we’re left with in terms of commonalities is “alien species, chitinous exo-skeleton and bipedal”.
So…in summary? Try to understand how media works. Try to understand that all media is an influence and is inspired by influences. Nothing is wholly original. But copying someone else’s design to produce knock offs is a very different and indeed legally distinct matter, as is making recasts.
Anxious to get those new plastics myself - hopefully deliver next week.
Regarding rumors/leaks - did those on the Phoenix lords say if they will be on big (40mm?) bases like Jain Zar was? I assume they will, though that might look a little odd with the old much smaller 90s sculpts for Asurmen/Karandras etc...
petrov27 wrote: Anxious to get those new plastics myself - hopefully deliver next week.
Regarding rumors/leaks - did those on the Phoenix lords say if they will be on big (40mm?) bases like Jain Zar was? I assume they will, though that might look a little odd with the old much smaller 90s sculpts for Asurmen/Karandras etc...
I wouldn't expect them to change base size until they get new models. That sort of thing is exceptionally rare for GW.
petrov27 wrote: Anxious to get those new plastics myself - hopefully deliver next week.
Regarding rumors/leaks - did those on the Phoenix lords say if they will be on big (40mm?) bases like Jain Zar was? I assume they will, though that might look a little odd with the old much smaller 90s sculpts for Asurmen/Karandras etc...
I wouldn't expect them to change base size until they get new models. That sort of thing is exceptionally rare for GW.
They will presumably get a bump to 28mm if that's what other infantry in the army move to, but yeah a 40mm base would dwarf the 2nd edition Phoenix Lords.
Can we please stop arguing about 3D printing and whether or not GW ripped other sources off or others ripped them off? Or at least start a separate thread for it?
I’m rather looking forward to this release and I would love to not have to filter through two pages or off topic arguing to find what information I am looking for.
This tome sees the legendary warrior Sigismund talking with a Remembrancer about his experiences of reclaiming the galaxy and musing on whether the end of the Great Crusade means the end of war for Humanity.
Ah well, I assume just one more week then. At least we'll get to see some more rules this week and then see what models come in the first week with codex next Sunday.
I couldn't justify the full Omens box, but did order a separate Autarch from ebay as it's really the only model I want from the box.
The last rules previewed before a dex drop tend to be the Crusade rules. There has been an article stating that there will be a path system for warriors and seers, but no real details.
Curious about it. GSC and T'au Crusade rules were pretty awesome' wonder how these will stack up.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Holy crap. The box Eldritch Omens comes in is thinner than any battle box I've seen.
The one between Custodes and Genestealer Cults was even thinner.
Surprised to see no Eldar next week. There had to have been a few delays, and from what I've heard, there indeed have been. A huge IT issue hit the distribution system and several Warhammer stores simply weren't getting stock that they had been ordering, all the way back to December. Paint racks empty, tools empty, they don't even have glue. On top of that, America had a freeze through the southern mid-west that affected the Memphis distribution center, which had to be shut down for about 3 days apparently. Seems like 'only three days', but if you're also dealing with a major IT outage that affects your order flow to stores across the country? Yeah...
Someone somewhere is very concerned for their job right about now. Needless to say, not seeing the Eldar wave is surprising, but not as surprising as it would be if everything was running smoothly.
I don’t know how useful that’s gonna be, but seems better than a slap in the face with a wet fish?
It's in line with the Drukhari update where Kabalites got an upgrade to their armor save. Also, with the proliferation of AP the 4+ is more a normalization of the AP-effect.
I like the stat line change and the catapult change and I really like the shield.
That said, I hate that the Defenders / Stormblades rules are tied to holding objectives. Linking unit rules to mission objectives limits the design space for both. Should GW wake up and realize the current mission design is garbage and change it, the Defenders / Stormblades rules, that do have a points cost associated with it in the unit cost, may become pointless. Or... because there exists unit rules directly linked to mission design, the missions will never be able to change.
oni wrote: I like the stat line change and the catapult change and I really like the shield.
That said, I hate that the Defenders / Stormblades rules are tied to holding objectives. Linking unit rules to mission objectives limits the design space for both. Should GW wake up and realize the current mission design is garbage and change it, the Defenders / Stormblades rules, that do have a points cost associated with it in the unit cost, may become pointless. Or... because there exists unit rules directly linked to mission design, the missions will never be able to change.
It’s a free boost, rather than an intrinsic part of their potential uses.
Certainly when it comes to Aspect Warriors, about the only ones I really wouldn’t mind Objective Camping are Dark Reapers. And even then, not over a decent line of sight/line of fire for them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Serpent Shield amuses me though, as it only applies to it’s unit, and not any tosspots standing behind them. I rationalise this in my head as rather than it being a bubble or wall, it’s energy streamers connecting to personal generators on the Guardians themselves.
If this is the new Guardians. And it is, on account it is….
What are Dire Avengers gonna look like? I mean, these Guardians are now the Dire Avengers in stats and pews of a few editions ago?
I'm guessing what Dire Avengers have always been... better Guardians.
Perhaps some Battle Focus shenanigans or a slightly upgraded catapult?
So the early rumours (which were spot on for these Guardians rules, btw) say Dire Avengers are moving to Elite with Assault 3 AP2 shurikens (still 18" though, which I'm cool with). AP2 with the new Shuriken rule will mean AP4 on wound rolls of 6
Also all Aspect Warriors are getting 5++ with DAs having that Exarch shield making it a 4++
Obviously points difference will matter, but overall I think DAs will have quite enough to distinguish them from Guardians. Plus, who knows what kind of blade-storm Stratagems they'll have
Do both shuriken catapult dice count as one attack each? Or is firing a two shot catapult "an attack"?
By the reading of it, if a model happened to roll two "1s" (snake eyes), he could only reroll one die. Which would be a pain if you were working to the rules as you'd have to slow roll every attack model by model.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Each shot is a separate attack to the best of my knowledge, with batch rolling just a way to speed it up?
Don’t quote me on that though!
This is 100% correct.
Indeed. The easiest way to think about it is an attack is a roll 'to hit' of a dice. Assault 2 is two dice = 2 attacks.
The only time this doesn't hold up is when a weapon auto-hits, your attacks there are however many auto hits you end up with but no hit roll is made unless stated otherwise. D6 Auto-hits = D6 attacks.
Must admit i'm not mad keen on Black Guardians being a single-use per phase strategm. Kinda hoped it would be a during list building affair like Drukharii Blood Brides.
Slightly Guardian related, it looks like Wind Riders are getting their 3+ armour back.
I saw some post a picture of the WR repackage box instructions (which has all the updated weapon profiles) and the WR starliner has a 3+.
Now if they could only get moved back to Troops, they might see the tabletop again. But as Fast Attack, you're better off using Shining Spears, Shroud runners or even Vypers instead
Galef wrote: Slightly Guardian related, it looks like Wind Riders are getting their 3+ armour back.
I saw some post a picture of the WR repackage box instructions (which has all the updated weapon profiles) and the WR starliner has a 3+.
Now if they could only get moved back to Troops, they might see the tabletop again. But as Fast Attack, you're better off using Shining Spears, Shroud runners or even Vypers instead
-
Doesn't that just in turn lead to everyone playing scatbikes and Guardians never seeing the tabletop again?
Galef wrote: Slightly Guardian related, it looks like Wind Riders are getting their 3+ armour back.
I saw some post a picture of the WR repackage box instructions (which has all the updated weapon profiles) and the WR starliner has a 3+.
Now if they could only get moved back to Troops, they might see the tabletop again. But as Fast Attack, you're better off using Shining Spears, Shroud runners or even Vypers instead
-
Doesn't that just in turn lead to everyone playing scatbikes and Guardians never seeing the tabletop again?
From my limited knowledge, I’d say the new Guardian rules have closed that gap somewhat. Better range, better armour, boosts for objective camping. Plus they’re theoretically easier to keep within buff bubbles and Warlock power range? Jetbikes, being more roving, strike me as less likely to stay put for such boosts to regularly apply?
petrov27 wrote: Anxious to get those new plastics myself - hopefully deliver next week.
Regarding rumors/leaks - did those on the Phoenix lords say if they will be on big (40mm?) bases like Jain Zar was? I assume they will, though that might look a little odd with the old much smaller 90s sculpts for Asurmen/Karandras etc...
I wouldn't expect them to change base size until they get new models. That sort of thing is exceptionally rare for GW.
I understand you are talking about the lords, but it isn't really rare for GW. Just look at almost all old Ork models that went to 32 mm. without getting new models (old boyz, tank bustaz, lootas, nobz, burna boyz). I really hope the aspects that don't get new models will keep their old base size... :(
That’s a pretty nice deal. And a reasonable balanced box. Was not expecting 6 bikes.
Is this taking the price hikes into account? I believe Combat Patrols were not excluded from it, so by my math Combat Patrols should hike to $147 assuming that its a straight 5%. If GW is price bracketing it might actually be $150 instead.
That’s a pretty nice deal. And a reasonable balanced box. Was not expecting 6 bikes.
Is this taking the price hikes into account? I believe Combat Patrols were not excluded from it, so by my math Combat Patrols should hike to $147 assuming that its a straight 5%. If GW is price bracketing it might actually be $150 instead.
Nope. Math is from GW’s website at time of post. And before my first cup of coffee, so of questionable accuracy.
Assuming GW raises everything equally, the ratio of savings should be the same, or close to it. But your point of price brackets is a good one. Sometimes GW rounds things to odd places.
Expecting units to go up by 1-2€ each and the CP by 10 I guess, we know SC are going up by 5. So maybe 5€ less saving than before, which brings it more in line to 35%ish percent.
When the initial leaks about the combat patrol came out I had assumed it would be just the one unit of Jetbikes, seems like a pretty decent deal all round if the cost is as people have estimated.
Still glad that I have picked up a couple of the start collecting sets just for the Wraithguard and War Walkers, but the 18 miniatures in the combat patrol is a lot better than the 8 in the Start Collecting.
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: When the initial leaks about the combat patrol came out I had assumed it would be just the one unit of Jetbikes, seems like a pretty decent deal all round if the cost is as people have estimated.
Still glad that I have picked up a couple of the start collecting sets just for the Wraithguard and War Walkers, but the 18 miniatures in the combat patrol is a lot better than the 8 in the Start Collecting.
Could be less. One of the older SC boxes had 5 models. Jetseer, 3 bikes, and a fire prism.
Great box, but low count.
Automatically Appended Next Post: For people who have the current one, there is a bit of overlap. How many WLs and farseers on foot do you need?
For those os us who bought 2 of the current box, makes it hard to get excited about the new one. Also not sure if I’d recommend a new player try to grab the current kit before it disappears, or just get the new one.
New Combat Patrols will be 120€
Windriders 42.5€
Wraithlord 45€
Farseer 23€
If the new Guardian Squad would be 40€ now it will be 42.5€ after the hike
All of that would 195,5€ then instead of 185€ now which changes it from 40.54% to 38.62%
But it could be better in pounds since the EU was hit harder with the price hike than US and UK (For example intercessors only go up £1 which would make it 2.85% of £35 in Uk but go up by 2.5€ which is 5.5% of 45€ for the EU)
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: When the initial leaks about the combat patrol came out I had assumed it would be just the one unit of Jetbikes, seems like a pretty decent deal all round if the cost is as people have estimated.
Still glad that I have picked up a couple of the start collecting sets just for the Wraithguard and War Walkers, but the 18 miniatures in the combat patrol is a lot better than the 8 in the Start Collecting.
Could be less. One of the older SC boxes had 5 models. Jetseer, 3 bikes, and a fire prism.
Great box, but low count.
Automatically Appended Next Post: For people who have the current one, there is a bit of overlap. How many WLs and farseers on foot do you need?
For those os us who bought 2 of the current box, makes it hard to get excited about the new one. Also not sure if I’d recommend a new player try to grab the current kit before it disappears, or just get the new one.
Tbh the overlap is not the best but does not bother me. The Farseer's are not ideal but combined with the jetbike farseer/warlock and upcoming Warlock kit kitbashes are easy. And there are so many options on the Wraithlord that having multiples is not an issue.
No real news that has not been already revealed today:
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: When the initial leaks about the combat patrol came out I had assumed it would be just the one unit of Jetbikes, seems like a pretty decent deal all round if the cost is as people have estimated.
Still glad that I have picked up a couple of the start collecting sets just for the Wraithguard and War Walkers, but the 18 miniatures in the combat patrol is a lot better than the 8 in the Start Collecting.
Could be less. One of the older SC boxes had 5 models. Jetseer, 3 bikes, and a fire prism.
Great box, but low count.
Automatically Appended Next Post: For people who have the current one, there is a bit of overlap. How many WLs and farseers on foot do you need?
For those os us who bought 2 of the current box, makes it hard to get excited about the new one. Also not sure if I’d recommend a new player try to grab the current kit before it disappears, or just get the new one.
Tbh the overlap is not the best but does not bother me. The Farseer's are not ideal but combined with the jetbike farseer/warlock and upcoming Warlock kit kitbashes are easy. And there are so many options on the Wraithlord that having multiples is not an issue.
Good point on the upcoming warlocks and the foot seer. Will be nice to see sprue pics of them to figure out how much can be done.
I’ve already got 2 plastic WLs, and an old metal one. I shouldn’t need a new one, but they are fantastically fun kits to build.
I’ve got over a dozen bikes, but feel I should have more. Budget and painting time keep that in line though.
Overall I like the box and would give it a solid recommendation, but probably won’t get one myself. Too much new stuff needs my attention/money.
Can't say that the new CP box entices me, but I am also an old Eldar player so I have around 25 jetbikes and 6 wraithlords already along with various variations of farseers.
I do love that Aspect Warriors are getting 5++ saves. Will make them much more survivable and useful. Also, the T4 on the heavy aspect armor sounds really nice.
Well shoot. I highly doubt Windriders are getting moved back to Troops if they are included 6 of them AND Guardians in the Combat Patrol. Would be weird to have that many Troops in a CP box.
Oh well. Let's hope Windriders get SOMETHING they can do better that Shining Spears, Shroud Runners or Vypers. Because as it stands, those 3 all beat WRs in some way that it doesn't make sense to take Windriders over the other choices.
Regarding Spiders: I wonder if they Auto-hit like the Autarchs Spinner? The Article didn't mention it, but DID list Abilities: Blast.
I wonder if they left it out or if the Autarch gets a special one.
Even without the Auto-hit, Assault d6 and AP2 are straight upgrades
The Red Hobbit wrote: Do we know if all the heavy aspects are getting T4 or just the Fire Dragons? I would love it if the Scorpions also got T4.
I doubt it. It seems Dragons get T4 because their armour is designed to be a bit heat resistant.
Reapers (who also have heavier plate armour) don't appear to have T4
Scorpions are supposed to be stealthy sneaky, so heavier armour wouldn't make sense (other than the 3+ armour they've always had)
Hard disagree. Aspect Warriors needed a survivability boost (honestly, not sure a 5++ will cut it but we'll see) and a boost on offense. Moving DA to Elite and hiking points is a good move, they (and the others, though I'm not sold on Banshees or Hawks) will feel like Aspect Warriors now.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
chaos0xomega wrote: The Avenger shuriken rifle is a hot-shot lasgun... but better.
Yes, and an Aspect Warrior is more elite and experienced than a Scion, with more advanced technology, what's your point?
Also now that DAs are an elite pick, we should not be comparing their guns with basic troop rifles, but with things like sternguard special ammo bolters.
If they were handing those out to basic guardians, it might be a bit much.
I really don't think 24" is super necessary. With 7" move and Advance, we should have no issues getting into range. And if you didn't need to Advance in the first place (never had issues getting my DAs in range before) you can now Battle focus behind terrain.
It's also VERY likely that DAs are going to get some kind of Bladestorm rule or strat
I really don't think 24" is super necessary. With 7" move and Advance, we should have no issues getting into range. And if you didn't need to Advance in the first place (never had issues getting my DAs in range before) you can now Battle focus behind terrain.
It's also VERY likely that DAs are going to get some kind of Bladestorm rule or strat
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Yes, getting a classic take on the Battle Focus is a welcome surprise in the new book.
Ultimately I think the new Dire Avengers are going to be super fun to try out, but I wonder how bloated the Elite slot is going to be.
What I am most interested in seeing is all the new Phoenix Lord rules. If they are as promising as Maugan Ra I can imagine a lot of themed lists coming out of the new book.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: £135 in proper money, not allowing for any New Kit increase in the Guardians, but also not adding the current additional cost for Storm Guardians.
Even if it does go up the 5%, it’s a pretty decent saving.
If only I had just bought a Wraithlord and 6 Jetbikes I’d have been on this like a fat Lass on chips.
That is awesome! I can't wait to get my little mitts on it, especially when I go to somewhere that does an additional percentage off retail.
chaos0xomega wrote: The Avenger shuriken rifle is a hot-shot lasgun... but better.
Yes, and an Aspect Warrior is more elite and experienced than a Scion, with more advanced technology, what's your point?
Chaos' point is that the hotshot is supposed to be comparable, but all of a sudden isn't.
Yeah, but I'm sure hotshot las will get a nice glow-up with a new book too (though yeah, it's a travesty that Guard seems to be at the very back of the line).
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned that Assurman now gives DAs object secured. I wonder if the Phoenix lords will still count as HQs or if they will be considered slot free if mixed with their aspect. If they're still HQs then that will mean that we probably won't be seeing them in play any more than they are currently.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: I'm surprised nobody has mentioned that Assurman now gives DAs object secured. I wonder if the Phoenix lords will still count as HQs or if they will be considered slot free if mixed with their aspect. If they're still HQs then that will mean that we probably won't be seeing them in play any more than they are currently.
Why would we not see them?
Especially if they hand out some nice buffs to their aspects. And get some buffs to punch at their weight class.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: I'm surprised nobody has mentioned that Assurman now gives DAs object secured. I wonder if the Phoenix lords will still count as HQs or if they will be considered slot free if mixed with their aspect. If they're still HQs then that will mean that we probably won't be seeing them in play any more than they are currently.
It looks like all the PLs give their aspects obsec. So they move DAs to the overcrowded elites, but it's ok because Asurmen gives them obsec so they're still like troops. They pointed this out in the Maugan article. I guess it's a nice bone to throw at PLs and their aspects, but I question the utility of obsec on Banshees and scorpions.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: I'm surprised nobody has mentioned that Assurman now gives DAs object secured. I wonder if the Phoenix lords will still count as HQs or if they will be considered slot free if mixed with their aspect. If they're still HQs then that will mean that we probably won't be seeing them in play any more than they are currently.
It looks like all the PLs give their aspects obsec. So they move DAs to the overcrowded elites, but it's ok because Asurmen gives them obsec so they're still like troops. They pointed this out in the Maugan article. I guess it's a nice bone to throw at PLs and their aspects, but I question the utility of obsec on Banshees and scorpions.
I figure Banshees and Scorpions would like obsec to deny objectives from other obsec units they might have charged and not quite wiped. Which could be very helpful.
Stormonu wrote: Are aspects still 1W? I would have thought GW would have increased those to 2 - with guardians still at 1.
Only the exarchs I think.
They do have a 5++ to make them a little tougher.
I do hope they stay 1W.
Marines being 2W makes perfect sense, but if you start spreading that around too much, it becomes meaningless as would Dmg2 weapons.
I think the 5++ is a good representation of the Aspects having super natural reflexes combined with incredibly flexible, yet decent armour
Leo_the_Rat wrote: I'm surprised nobody has mentioned that Assurman now gives DAs object secured. I wonder if the Phoenix lords will still count as HQs or if they will be considered slot free if mixed with their aspect. If they're still HQs then that will mean that we probably won't be seeing them in play any more than they are currently.
I'd be very pleased if Phoenix Lords don't take up a force org slot. Makes it easier to recreate those moments where all the Phoenix Lords appear like in Valedor. I doubt including all of them would be optimal in a 2000pt or lower game but it would be fun to have the option.
Stormonu wrote: Are aspects still 1W? I would have thought GW would have increased those to 2 - with guardians still at 1.
Only the exarchs I think.
They do have a 5++ to make them a little tougher.
I do hope they stay 1W.
Marines being 2W makes perfect sense, but if you start spreading that around too much, it becomes meaningless as would Dmg2 weapons.
I think the 5++ is a good representation of the Aspects having super natural reflexes combined with incredibly flexible, yet decent armour
I still find it odd that Apes with less than 25K years in space can come up with better armor than a species that basically lives forever and has been flying around the galaxy for 60 million years. Said old species makes guns that kill you on the sub-atomic level and put captured stars in their anti-tank rifles, yet they have armor that's about as affective as a Guardsmens Flack jacket....
But, in game terms I'm happy with them as they are. I've been planning out doing a semi-lore friendly Altansar host and given we're getting rules for them in WD soon, I am hopeful that this will include some neat buffs for aspects beyond what is in the book.
Stormonu wrote: Are aspects still 1W? I would have thought GW would have increased those to 2 - with guardians still at 1.
Only the exarchs I think.
They do have a 5++ to make them a little tougher.
I do hope they stay 1W.
Marines being 2W makes perfect sense, but if you start spreading that around too much, it becomes meaningless as would Dmg2 weapons.
I think the 5++ is a good representation of the Aspects having super natural reflexes combined with incredibly flexible, yet decent armour
I still find it odd that Apes with less than 25K years in space can come up with better armor than a species that basically lives forever and has been flying around the galaxy for 60 million years. Said old species makes guns that kill you on the sub-atomic level and put captured stars in their anti-tank rifles, yet they have armor that's about as affective as a Guardsmens Flack jacket....
But, in game terms I'm happy with them as they are. I've been planning out doing a semi-lore friendly Altansar host and given we're getting rules for them in WD soon, I am hopeful that this will include some neat buffs for aspects beyond what is in the book.
It's so they can move better, obviously.
From a fluff perspective, though, my beef is that you'd think a dying race would want better armor to, y'know, not be a dying race.
From a fluff perspective, though, my beef is that you'd think a dying race would want better armor to, y'know, not be a dying race.
My favourite thing to hate about this:
Farseer Jeff, scrying the future desperately trying to find a path to bring victory without loss of life rolls his magic rune ball which gives him the same message he's dreaded everytime he uses it:
*all signs point to equipping your troops with better armour*
Galef wrote: Well shoot. I highly doubt Windriders are getting moved back to Troops if they are included 6 of them AND Guardians in the Combat Patrol. Would be weird to have that many Troops in a CP box.
Oh well. Let's hope Windriders get SOMETHING they can do better that Shining Spears, Shroud Runners or Vypers. Because as it stands, those 3 all beat WRs in some way that it doesn't make sense to take Windriders over the other choices.
Regarding Spiders: I wonder if they Auto-hit like the Autarchs Spinner? The Article didn't mention it, but DID list Abilities: Blast.
I wonder if they left it out or if the Autarch gets a special one.
Even without the Auto-hit, Assault d6 and AP2 are straight upgrades
The Red Hobbit wrote: Do we know if all the heavy aspects are getting T4 or just the Fire Dragons? I would love it if the Scorpions also got T4.
I doubt it. It seems Dragons get T4 because their armour is designed to be a bit heat resistant.
Reapers (who also have heavier plate armour) don't appear to have T4
Scorpions are supposed to be stealthy sneaky, so heavier armour wouldn't make sense (other than the 3+ armour they've always had)
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Here is my problem with that line of logic on the armor and toughness of the models.
You have a race that has basically been doing science for 60 million years (Not to mention recovering technology from a species even more Godlike than they). To me that means that judging them by human standards isn't applicable. Humans heavy armor would be Terminator suits, but there is no reason to think the Eldar couldn't engineer something that is three as strong, 1/1000th as cumbersome and that has absolutely no impact on agility. That's the issue with trying to show a race being spacefarers for tens of millions of years. Their understanding of Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Materials, and Engineering would be so alien to humans of the 41st Millennium that it would appear as gibberish to their engineers and scientists.
Remember, pretty much the only abundant material available to Eldar is the psychoplastic Wraithbone.
They don’t have mines. They don’t have planets. They’re effectively living on colossal life rafts.
Perhaps their technology does include ways to use other resources in ways far more efficient than the younger races. But they’d struggle to get hold of said materials in any meaningful amounts. And when Wraithbone resources are solely limited by the number of people you have trained to conjure it from the Warp, why seek anything else?
I still find it odd that Apes with less than 25K years in space can come up with better armor than a species that basically lives forever and has been flying around the galaxy for 60 million years. Said old species makes guns that kill you on the sub-atomic level and put captured stars in their anti-tank rifles, yet they have armor that's about as affective as a Guardsmens Flack jacket....
Galef wrote: Well shoot. I highly doubt Windriders are getting moved back to Troops if they are included 6 of them AND Guardians in the Combat Patrol. Would be weird to have that many Troops in a CP box.
Oh well. Let's hope Windriders get SOMETHING they can do better that Shining Spears, Shroud Runners or Vypers. Because as it stands, those 3 all beat WRs in some way that it doesn't make sense to take Windriders over the other choices.
Regarding Spiders: I wonder if they Auto-hit like the Autarchs Spinner? The Article didn't mention it, but DID list Abilities: Blast.
I wonder if they left it out or if the Autarch gets a special one.
Even without the Auto-hit, Assault d6 and AP2 are straight upgrades
The Red Hobbit wrote: Do we know if all the heavy aspects are getting T4 or just the Fire Dragons? I would love it if the Scorpions also got T4.
I doubt it. It seems Dragons get T4 because their armour is designed to be a bit heat resistant.
Reapers (who also have heavier plate armour) don't appear to have T4
Scorpions are supposed to be stealthy sneaky, so heavier armour wouldn't make sense (other than the 3+ armour they've always had)
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Here is my problem with that line of logic on the armor and toughness of the models.
You have a race that has basically been doing science for 60 million years (Not to mention recovering technology from a species even more Godlike than they). To me that means that judging them by human standards isn't applicable. Humans heavy armor would be Terminator suits, but there is no reason to think the Eldar couldn't engineer something that is three as strong, 1/1000th as cumbersome and that has absolutely no impact on agility. That's the issue with trying to show a race being spacefarers for tens of millions of years. Their understanding of Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Materials, and Engineering would be so alien to humans of the 41st Millennium that it would appear as gibberish to their engineers and scientists.
I might be getting my lore wrong here, but where is it stated that Eldar are doing actual research? I always thought Eldar were the epitome of the stagnant decadent empire prototype. So focused on itself and its perceived perfection, that it actively surpresses any form of revolution and progress. Hence the cleanly tread out paths that everyone repeats ad infinitum. Even being an Outcast and a Rebel is a Path.
Technology wise, wasn't it that the Eldar technology was only stuff that the Old Ones simply gave the Eldar and then they lost most of it because the craftworlds were more or less scrambled together at short notice? In comparative terms that is, for people that can live millenia. So the only technological progress they can have is by rediscovering technology on the lost worlds of their old empire.
This is not an argument for or against Eldar being comparatively squishy to Marines. I agree that their playstyle should reflect their almost magic like level of technology. Personally I do think it does fit their background though. If their technology is basically identical to their original requirement, that was battling the Necrontyr, which were numerous, slow and fragile, but extremely dangerously armed with Gauss Weapons basically making armour meaningless. It wouldn't be so stupid to strip armour and try to be so agile, that you simply can't be hit in the first place. However the old ones lost against the Necrons (So Eldar were already outdated and outperformed back then), the Necrons collapsed after killing off their "Gods" and the Eldar reigned supreme in a false believe of greatness. A bit like a billionires Kid that tells you, you just need to work hard enough and you can accomplish anything, while in reality is massivly banked by their parents.
Apart from that, from a playability angle please keep in mind that if the Eldar are supposed to feel like having very powerful weaponry and being extraordinarily fast, agile and hard to corner AND have extreme durabilty on top of that. The only way you can balance them is to make them even more expensive than Custodes. That would mean 90% of Eldar models becoming obsolete for the playerbase. So be careful what you whish for.
The old Eldar did do research; they created the webway after all, extending and perfecting the old ones’ stargate-like system of point to point portals. But I bet that died well before the Fall when they collectively decided they were perfect - what, then, would be the point of maintaining a discipline whose entire basic premise is that you don’t know everything yet? Sounds like an admission of imperfection.
Also need to consider that part of the cause of The Fall was Mark E Smith. Sorry. Indolence and excess.
Their technology had got to the point where they didn’t need to work, and could immerse themselves in their passions.
This is why Exodites are Exdortes. Think Alien Amish, nicking off to lead a more pastoral existence away from sun and temptation.
Craftworlds are the remains of those with the sense to flee. Given we’re talking centuries and perhaps even millennia of automation, it’s possible that the Eldar just cannot produce the wonder tech they used to have. And they may be a bit Ad Mech in their own right, viewing certain conveniences of old as too dangerous to use, fearing a return to the old ways if they make life too easy.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Also need to consider that part of the cause of The Fall was Mark E Smith. Sorry. Indolence and excess.
Their technology had got to the point where they didn’t need to work, and could immerse themselves in their passions.
This is why Exodites are Exdortes. Think Alien Amish, nicking off to lead a more pastoral existence away from sun and temptation.
Craftworlds are the remains of those with the sense to flee. Given we’re talking centuries and perhaps even millennia of automation, it’s possible that the Eldar just cannot produce the wonder tech they used to have. And they may be a bit Ad Mech in their own right, viewing certain conveniences of old as too dangerous to use, fearing a return to the old ways if they make life too easy.
and I head cannon that all the bestest Eldar deathware was very heavy on the psyker hijinx and not really safe post Fall
Though I would hasten that it is possible they, unlike the Ad Mech, still understand the “lost” technology, indeed they understand it enough to know precisely why it’s forbidden to use it.
Consider an often mentioned wonder weapon. The ability to send stars nova. Now they may still be able to use that. But when you’re as few and as scattered as the Eldar, facing foes are numerous and widespread as The Imperium? The use of such a weapon might simply be inviting utter destruction from retribution strikes.
Plus one suspects it would really mess up gravity etc, which would affect far more than the target.
It's important to realise that Eldar experience all things kind of like a human experiences drugs. So whilst depravity and fornication and such are part of their excess, they will excess into anything. So at the height before their fall yes some would have been fornicating like rabid rabbits, but some would have been doing high science and psychic things into the extremes as well.
The thing is they didn't "need" to do anything and could let their minds go wild with the freedom to experience whatever they wanted.
When that birthed Slaanesh it was sudden, so sudden that there was no build up to their fall. One day they were ruling the Galaxy, the next they were broken, confused, cursed and had lost many of their core worlds and powerbase to Chaos.
So there is every chance that many ancient technologies are lost to them. In both terms of being able to rebuild them, but also to potentially even have access to the resources needed to make them. Certainly things like Aspect Warrior Armours are described as living things. However I get the impression that more can be made of the lower tier, its the higher tier ones that are almost unique and impossible to replace. However part of that isn't just the armour design itself, but the minds and experiences and skills of those who wore the armour before. Things that cannot be replaced.
I figure they also do do research, but likely approach it in a very "sane" way compared to the Imperium and because of their already advanced understanding its likely that their research has hit barriers of development. Ergo they've stagnated, but not because of religious reasons like the Imperium, but because they've just hit limits on what they can do.
There are also issues - things like the Webway are not just hard to impossible to replicate, but require messing with Chaos - the very thing that brought about their downfall. I suspect this means not only that they have lost understanding in how it was made, but also don't actually want to mess with it to rediscover that knowledge - at least not without a LOT of precautions and such.
Ultimately I think the thing that holds them back is a generations long depression that is made worse by their extreme long lifespan and their preservation of past lives through armours and the Infinity Circuit. Basically they are held back by extreme fear and depression after the fall. Even though it was so long ago, they still remember it. They are in almost a kind of extreme PTSD.
Which is why the Yinnari story line is interesting because it, rather like the Primaris, is presenting a change to the Eldar story and lore. An evolution as a newer generation push past that trauma and work toward change. Perhaps recapturing worlds; seeding new colonies and more.
Invention and utilization are two different things. You can invent a device that prevents a table saw from cutting off peoples hands, but that doesn’t automatically get it installed in new table saws.
The Eldar may be finding all sorts of new inventions, but you have all these Paths that have preconceived notions on how to do things. Does the baker who’s been perfecting his path for two hundred years want to use your improved oven?
My thoughts are either eldar just aren't physically strong enough to have the heavier armor that astartes use (Heavier armor, more protection, slower, yada yada). Or that pre-Fall, Eldar really didn't care too much about dying, as they were able to reincarnate. Then, after the Fall, their technology was too far gone for them to fully develop overpowered gear and weapons.
Anyways... how like do you think it is we'll start getting special Eldar exclusive models popping up? Orks got Snaggit and the Gorkamorka ork, the necrons have gotten a cryptek and a necron lord, etc. Come on GW, give us a plastic bonesinger
Gotta give GW credit on this one. They could easily have gone the Lieutenant route and kept releasing exclusive autrachs, each with a different aspect weapon.
Instead, they grouped them all together in one set. I mean, sure, you can't technically combine them with the other autarch, but its the thought that counts.
If GW is going to spam us at the meme-primaris Lt. level, warlocks would be my preference.
You can use one or two in a list, or full squads of them.
I would like to see the bonesinger get a new model and out of legends. I got him when he was on MTO a while back. He actually fills a unique roll in the army.
Banshee datasheet is on the first page, if a bit fuzzy. Good for confirmations.
We know so much about this release, it feels odd. There are still a ton of little unknowns they could change in the codex, but I feel we have a pretty good picture. Just release it and take my money!
Mostly played wraith units last edition, but will be fun to return to my original eldar roots of aspect warriors. Have scorps, dragons, new banshees to build and plan to pick up new reapers and spears. Only challenge is spiders which will probably be a kitbash until they release plastic. Have old metal avengers but also 10 "new" ones to add to lineup.
I bought one when they came out, but it was hard. I wanted to reward GW for finally getting around to redoing eldar in plastic, but vote with my wallet about the price point. Looks like they realized there was money to be made in the range, so that’s a victory.
I’d like another box of banshees, but will only pick them up in a discounted bundle box. What they are asking for the stand alone box is still crazy.
Their mask doesn't seem to have the -1 to attack for the enemy like the Autarch does. Still not clear if that's a change for all masks from the Omen's rules, or like the hint with the fusion gun in yesterday's article that the Autarch just does it all better.
We know so much about this release, it feels odd. There are still a ton of little unknowns they could change in the codex, but I feel we have a pretty good picture. Just release it and take my money!
The main one for me is the Autarch datasheet, is it oddly restrictive like the one in Eldritch Omens? If it is then the Autarch used on the cover art is not game legal.
Khahandran wrote: Their mask doesn't seem to have the -1 to attack for the enemy like the Autarch does. Still not clear if that's a change for all masks from the Omen's rules, or like the hint with the fusion gun in yesterday's article that the Autarch just does it all better.
Autarch one we’ve seen may simply be a place holder prior to the Codex proper.
Plus, the Autarch’s one just replicates the Acrobatic rule Bumshees have natively.
Khahandran wrote: Their mask doesn't seem to have the -1 to attack for the enemy like the Autarch does. Still not clear if that's a change for all masks from the Omen's rules, or like the hint with the fusion gun in yesterday's article that the Autarch just does it all better.
Autarch one we’ve seen may simply be a place holder prior to the Codex proper.
Plus, the Autarch’s one just replicates the Acrobatic rule Bumshees have natively.
No, the Autarch one had a minus to attacks characteristics.
It’s adding some to the theory that we’re yet to see the full Autarch data sheet thing.
Worth mentioning that the Autarch's initial preview video talked about getting yours from the "Craftworld Command" box...which might just be both of the Autarch models in the same box.
I bought one when they came out, but it was hard. I wanted to reward GW for finally getting around to redoing eldar in plastic, but vote with my wallet about the price point.
They're not paying attention to how many boxes you the individual bought. Should've voted WAY harder with your wallet because they would've redone the range at some point anyway.
Hmmm Howling Banshees, Fire Dragons, Dire Avengers, Wraithguard, and Wraithblades all seem like great elite choices this edition. I also wonder what the Dire Avenger Exarch's Shimmershield will do now that the unit already gets a 5++ .
l0k1 wrote: Hmmm Howling Banshees, Fire Dragons, Dire Avengers, Wraithguard, and Wraithblades all seem like great elite choices this edition. I also wonder what the Dire Avenger Exarch's Shimmershield will do now that the unit already gets a 5++ .
Hopefully if will boost the squad’s invuln, but I suspect it might just give him a 4++ instead. That’s just a guess though.
What will Eldar players do if we get a codex that has decent internal balance? Would we be able to figure out how to build lists? Has it ever happened before?
How many “trap” choice have we seen so far? Most things seem pretty good, although points can make/break a lot of things.
l0k1 wrote: Hmmm Howling Banshees, Fire Dragons, Dire Avengers, Wraithguard, and Wraithblades all seem like great elite choices this edition. I also wonder what the Dire Avenger Exarch's Shimmershield will do now that the unit already gets a 5++ .
l0k1 wrote: Hmmm Howling Banshees, Fire Dragons, Dire Avengers, Wraithguard, and Wraithblades all seem like great elite choices this edition. I also wonder what the Dire Avenger Exarch's Shimmershield will do now that the unit already gets a 5++ .
Hopefully if will boost the squad’s invuln, but I suspect it might just give him a 4++ instead. That’s just a guess though.
What will Eldar players do if we get a codex that has decent internal balance? Would we be able to figure out how to build lists? Has it ever happened before?
How many “trap” choice have we seen so far? Most things seem pretty good, although points can make/break a lot of things.
l0k1 wrote: Hmmm Howling Banshees, Fire Dragons, Dire Avengers, Wraithguard, and Wraithblades all seem like great elite choices this edition. I also wonder what the Dire Avenger Exarch's Shimmershield will do now that the unit already gets a 5++ .
Advent leaks had it as a 4++ for the unit.
Interesting. A 4++ instead of a 5++ is nice. But I guess it'll depend on points.
Nevelon wrote: What will Eldar players do if we get a codex that has decent internal balance?
Complain. Endlessly.
No no no.
You’re thinking of Chaos players
...it isn't a state of being limited to one faction, Doc - we can probably throw the Ork players under the bus too, though their complaints might be a little more valid.
l0k1 wrote: Hmmm Howling Banshees, Fire Dragons, Dire Avengers, Wraithguard, and Wraithblades all seem like great elite choices this edition. I also wonder what the Dire Avenger Exarch's Shimmershield will do now that the unit already gets a 5++ .
Hopefully if will boost the squad’s invuln, but I suspect it might just give him a 4++ instead. That’s just a guess though.
What will Eldar players do if we get a codex that has decent internal balance? Would we be able to figure out how to build lists? Has it ever happened before?
How many “trap” choice have we seen so far? Most things seem pretty good, although points can make/break a lot of things.
2nd Ed. Nothing sucked.
And 6th. Always did fine or wiped the floor rolling to see what units I took, including options and wargear (having a considerable force at the time), instead of building a list.
*with the exception of storm guardians.
Aspects especially complimented each other really well and when fielding them all together they really did well and were a load of fun. Each with an important role to play with some redundancy. Keen to see if spectres are getting and rule love as they were a key unit to fill multiple roles.
Nevelon wrote: What will Eldar players do if we get a codex that has decent internal balance?
Complain. Endlessly.
Second verse same as the first. I imagine Eldar players will still point to the age of most of their hover vehicles, the rest of the phoenix lords and aspect warriors that still aren't out in plastic, and a few other things besides.
Rumors hit natfka that the release schedule of GW is 11 months behind. That's a whole year of unrealized models, books, and other things.
l0k1 wrote: Hmmm Howling Banshees, Fire Dragons, Dire Avengers, Wraithguard, and Wraithblades all seem like great elite choices this edition. I also wonder what the Dire Avenger Exarch's Shimmershield will do now that the unit already gets a 5++ .
Hopefully if will boost the squad’s invuln, but I suspect it might just give him a 4++ instead. That’s just a guess though.
What will Eldar players do if we get a codex that has decent internal balance? Would we be able to figure out how to build lists? Has it ever happened before?
How many “trap” choice have we seen so far? Most things seem pretty good, although points can make/break a lot of things.
2nd Ed. Nothing sucked.
2nd ed. Dire Avengers did. As in they were nothing special, with the same gun as Guardians. A relative big points increase for that extra BS and 4+ armor save. Far more effective to field massed Guardians in 2nd edition.
l0k1 wrote: Hmmm Howling Banshees, Fire Dragons, Dire Avengers, Wraithguard, and Wraithblades all seem like great elite choices this edition. I also wonder what the Dire Avenger Exarch's Shimmershield will do now that the unit already gets a 5++ .
Hopefully if will boost the squad’s invuln, but I suspect it might just give him a 4++ instead. That’s just a guess though.
What will Eldar players do if we get a codex that has decent internal balance? Would we be able to figure out how to build lists? Has it ever happened before?
How many “trap” choice have we seen so far? Most things seem pretty good, although points can make/break a lot of things.
I dunno about trap choices but it feels like they might have overcorrected Shining Spears and especially Dark Reapers going by some of the leaks. Apparently Reapers are losing Inescapable Accuracy and can only ignore the Heavy penalty through an Exarch power (which cost points now) and they're also still quite expensive for a T3 1W model. Added to this F&F doesn't allow you to re-embark onto transports and I look at them and the rest of the improved codex and wonder why even bother with the unit?
Spears are losing charging after Quicken and the 2++ (perfectly reasonable changes don't get me wrong!) and are getting a damage boost through extra attacks and improved shuriken. But they're also losing their 4++, are on big 60mm flying bases and might still be pushing the mid-30's for points. The mobility and fly is nice of course, but they sound like a really tough sell for those rules, at that cost. Harder to hide and much less durable for a little damage boost. They aren't lighting my world on fire at the moment.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Particularly cool for me are the Banshees Masks forcing the charged unit to fight last of all.
Means I’d be a bit more confident in using a small squad to help say, Storm Guardians in tackling a numerically superior foe.
Also the deny overwatch doesn't rely on actually making charge. You could quite easily declare 12" charge against unit just to deny overwatch for real unit to charge safe from overwatch.
Vs tau handy. One unit charges every unit within reach regardless of can they end up or not, nobody overwatch.
How much space is there for a unit to be wholly within 6” of both arches? I don’t have the webway to check, but don’t they have a pretty wide stance? Seems like that’s just going to be a slim sliver between them.
Nevelon wrote: How much space is there for a unit to be wholly within 6” of both arches? I don’t have the webway to check, but don’t they have a pretty wide stance? Seems like that’s just going to be a slim sliver between them.
It's a decent size if the 3" deployment counts the top of the arches and not the bottom.
Either way I think halving CP costs of reinforcement is going to be the main attraction if any.
l0k1 wrote: Hmmm Howling Banshees, Fire Dragons, Dire Avengers, Wraithguard, and Wraithblades all seem like great elite choices this edition. I also wonder what the Dire Avenger Exarch's Shimmershield will do now that the unit already gets a 5++ .
Hopefully if will boost the squad’s invuln, but I suspect it might just give him a 4++ instead. That’s just a guess though.
What will Eldar players do if we get a codex that has decent internal balance? Would we be able to figure out how to build lists? Has it ever happened before?
How many “trap” choice have we seen so far? Most things seem pretty good, although points can make/break a lot of things.
I dunno about trap choices but it feels like they might have overcorrected Shining Spears and especially Dark Reapers going by some of the leaks. Apparently Reapers are losing Inescapable Accuracy and can only ignore the Heavy penalty through an Exarch power (which cost points now) and they're also still quite expensive for a T3 1W model. Added to this F&F doesn't allow you to re-embark onto transports and I look at them and the rest of the improved codex and wonder why even bother with the unit?
Spears are losing charging after Quicken and the 2++ (perfectly reasonable changes don't get me wrong!) and are getting a damage boost through extra attacks and improved shuriken. But they're also losing their 4++, are on big 60mm flying bases and might still be pushing the mid-30's for points. The mobility and fly is nice of course, but they sound like a really tough sell for those rules, at that cost. Harder to hide and much less durable for a little damage boost. They aren't lighting my world on fire at the moment.
That would certainly be a new trend for GW, usually the new model has appealing rules and capabilities to drive sales. I think Shining Spears will still see their place on the tabletop (and the new models are gorgeous!) but I agree with you the Dark Reapers leak seemed underwhelming.
So I noticed they removed the "must be set up outside 3" of other terrain features" wording for the Gate, which was what made it pointless to field before.
Is there something in the main rules for deploying Forts that still applies the 3" bubble? If so, the WWG is still unplayable because you'll never be able to place it anywhere but your own DZ (probably at the back edge), which kinda defeats it's purpose
If that wording doesn't exist anywhere and you CAN place it outside your DZ, we are in business.
Galef wrote: So I noticed they removed the "must be set up outside 3" of other terrain features" wording for the Gate, which was what made it pointless to field before.
Is there something in the main rules for deploying Forts that still applies the 3" bubble? If so, the WWG is still unplayable because you'll never be able to place it anywhere but your own DZ (probably at the back edge), which kinda defeats it's purpose
If that wording doesn't exist anywhere and you CAN place it outside your DZ, we are in business.
EDIT: sorry - looks like it just has it's own rules it seems so it can deploy on the Eldar half without regard to bumping into other terrain is what it sounds like.
The other fort rules are "unless otherwise stated" and this states otherwise.
Galef wrote: So I noticed they removed the "must be set up outside 3" of other terrain features" wording for the Gate, which was what made it pointless to field before.
Is there something in the main rules for deploying Forts that still applies the 3" bubble? If so, the WWG is still unplayable because you'll never be able to place it anywhere but your own DZ (probably at the back edge), which kinda defeats it's purpose
If that wording doesn't exist anywhere and you CAN place it outside your DZ, we are in business.
They changed how faction terrain is placed. IF there is a spot outside the Eldar DZ where it can fit it will probably be busted.
Well tartar sauce. Looks like the WWG is STILL pointless.
It doesn't matter how good it is, if you can't deploy it OUTSIDE your DZ, why bother? It's unlikely that the points needed to take the WWG are worth having a unit come out turn 2 at the back edge of your table.
Because let's be real, if you have to deploy 3" away from terrain with something as big as the WWG, the only spot available is gonna be your table edge
Super lame.
And what's worse is that there's going to be loads of players rushing to get the WWG only to have missed this crucial bit and have wasted their money. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice piece for display, but if you bought specifically to play it, you're in for disappointment.
Well tartar sauce. Looks like the WWG is STILL pointless.
It doesn't matter how good it is, if you can't deploy it OUTSIDE your DZ, why bother? It's unlikely that the points needed to take the WWG are worth having a unit come out turn 2 at the back edge of your table.
Because let's be real, if you have to deploy 3" away from terrain with something as big as the WWG, the only spot available is gonna be your table edge
Super lame.
And what's worse is that there's going to be loads of players rushing to get the WWG only to have missed this crucial bit and have wasted their money. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice piece for display, but if you bought specifically to play it, you're in for disappointment.
EDIT: sorry - looks like it just has it's own rules it seems so it can deploy on the Eldar half without regard to bumping into other terrain is what it sounds like.
The other fort rules are "unless otherwise stated" and this states otherwise.
That's freaking Awesome. Good catch. Will probably lead to some minor disagreements, but it's a start
l0k1 wrote: Hmmm Howling Banshees, Fire Dragons, Dire Avengers, Wraithguard, and Wraithblades all seem like great elite choices this edition. I also wonder what the Dire Avenger Exarch's Shimmershield will do now that the unit already gets a 5++ .
Hopefully if will boost the squad’s invuln, but I suspect it might just give him a 4++ instead. That’s just a guess though.
What will Eldar players do if we get a codex that has decent internal balance? Would we be able to figure out how to build lists? Has it ever happened before?
How many “trap” choice have we seen so far? Most things seem pretty good, although points can make/break a lot of things.
I dunno about trap choices but it feels like they might have overcorrected Shining Spears and especially Dark Reapers going by some of the leaks. Apparently Reapers are losing Inescapable Accuracy and can only ignore the Heavy penalty through an Exarch power (which cost points now) and they're also still quite expensive for a T3 1W model. Added to this F&F doesn't allow you to re-embark onto transports and I look at them and the rest of the improved codex and wonder why even bother with the unit?
Spears are losing charging after Quicken and the 2++ (perfectly reasonable changes don't get me wrong!) and are getting a damage boost through extra attacks and improved shuriken. But they're also losing their 4++, are on big 60mm flying bases and might still be pushing the mid-30's for points. The mobility and fly is nice of course, but they sound like a really tough sell for those rules, at that cost. Harder to hide and much less durable for a little damage boost. They aren't lighting my world on fire at the moment.
That would certainly be a new trend for GW, usually the new model has appealing rules and capabilities to drive sales. I think Shining Spears will still see their place on the tabletop (and the new models are gorgeous!) but I agree with you the Dark Reapers leak seemed underwhelming.
Thats a meme unsupported by reality. One could write a list of new models that had gakky rules and capabilities, some pertinent examples as of late:
Castigator Tanks
Paragon Warsuits
Vanguard/Phobos Marines
Primaris tanks/vehicles (in all their forms - Repulsor, Repulsor Executioner, Gladiator, Impulsor, Firestrike Servo-Turret, Hammerfall Bunker, etc.)
Really, Primaris in general
Skorpekh Destroyers
Ophydian Destroyers
Flayed Ones
Necron Monolith
Canoptek Reanimator
Ork Boyz (resculpt)
Hunta & Kill Rig
etc.
Plenty of new models (and hell, new armies) get released with subpar rules that gives little incentive for people to field them. In general there seems to be more of a tendency for new models to be underpowered rather than overpowered - the new models that do release as OP tend to get hit by a nerf bat and never really recover from it (Mortarion and Magnus are good examples of models that were absolute terrors when they first released that got toned down dramatically and since then have continued to be viewed as being generally subpar/uncompetitive chocies at best rather than models that you build armies around). The new hotness in many factions are overwhelmingly models that were released in previous editions that weren't good previously, rather than new models released in the current edition - for example, Tau players right now are all about Crisis Suits, Broadsides, Hammerheads, and Sky Rays - none of these are new models. GSC players are all about basically everything that isn't the newly released Saboteur model and the previously newly released Abominants (which got nerfed after being OP and have never been good again).
Octovol wrote: Marine Infiltrators and admech Technoarcheologists nearby just negate the entire thing as well. Anything that prevents reinforcements with X distance.
Very true.
Although assuming the WWG can ignore the CA Fort deploy rules (because it has its own rules for deploying), and you go first, those forward deployed units won't be an issue. In fact, the WWG deploy 12" from the enemy DZ will likely mess with those units more.
Going 2nd on alternate deployment won't be ideal, but it shouldn't be that bad as the opponent will only have 1 unit deployed and that could still leave room on one side or the other to deploy forward
Wasn't there the errata that stated all fortifications have to be outside 3" unless otherwise stated? This doesn't say anything so surely the fortification ruling will still apply as it doesn't explicitly state otherwise?
Tyranid Horde wrote: Wasn't there the errata that stated all fortifications have to be outside 3" unless otherwise stated? This doesn't say anything so surely the fortification ruling will still apply as it doesn't explicitly state otherwise?
WWG does state otherwise. The previewed rule dictates how it is allowed to deploy.
Tyranid Horde wrote: Wasn't there the errata that stated all fortifications have to be outside 3" unless otherwise stated? This doesn't say anything so surely the fortification ruling will still apply as it doesn't explicitly state otherwise?
WWG does state otherwise. The previewed rule dictates how it is allowed to deploy.
Yeah I think you are right. The main rules dictate how you deploy a Fort (ie just like other units in your list) so the CA ruling applies to all Forts that use the "standard" deployment rules.
But as the WWG has it's own deploy rules, the CA ruling shouldn't apply. But that also means you wouldn't ever get to remove a piece of terrain either.
However, that begs 2 questions:
A) how long is it going to last as I could see this getting FAQd real quick and
B) if the WWG rules do override the standard deploy rules (including the CA rule) then why didn't the old WWG rules override them since the old/current WWG rules also have a special deploy rule?
l0k1 wrote: Hmmm Howling Banshees, Fire Dragons, Dire Avengers, Wraithguard, and Wraithblades all seem like great elite choices this edition. I also wonder what the Dire Avenger Exarch's Shimmershield will do now that the unit already gets a 5++ .
Hopefully if will boost the squad’s invuln, but I suspect it might just give him a 4++ instead. That’s just a guess though.
What will Eldar players do if we get a codex that has decent internal balance? Would we be able to figure out how to build lists? Has it ever happened before?
How many “trap” choice have we seen so far? Most things seem pretty good, although points can make/break a lot of things.
I dunno about trap choices but it feels like they might have overcorrected Shining Spears and especially Dark Reapers going by some of the leaks. Apparently Reapers are losing Inescapable Accuracy and can only ignore the Heavy penalty through an Exarch power (which cost points now) and they're also still quite expensive for a T3 1W model. Added to this F&F doesn't allow you to re-embark onto transports and I look at them and the rest of the improved codex and wonder why even bother with the unit?
Spears are losing charging after Quicken and the 2++ (perfectly reasonable changes don't get me wrong!) and are getting a damage boost through extra attacks and improved shuriken. But they're also losing their 4++, are on big 60mm flying bases and might still be pushing the mid-30's for points. The mobility and fly is nice of course, but they sound like a really tough sell for those rules, at that cost. Harder to hide and much less durable for a little damage boost. They aren't lighting my world on fire at the moment.
That would certainly be a new trend for GW, usually the new model has appealing rules and capabilities to drive sales. I think Shining Spears will still see their place on the tabletop (and the new models are gorgeous!) but I agree with you the Dark Reapers leak seemed underwhelming.
lol no they don't
How many useless units did Marines and Necrons get in 2020? Remember how terrible every Primaris unit was for most of 8th? Those new Sisters tanks and warsuits really lit the meta on fire. etc etc
For every instance of some new sculpt being busted good there are about 2 instances of the opposite being the case.
If GW were actually savvy about these things they would try and co-ordinate these things a little better and at least make sure new units/sculpts were at the very least "decent". But they don't, and we have these bizarre instances where GW hypes up a new battlebox and yet one of the factions in it is using terrible old rules so it provides less incentives for people to pick it up.
Tyranid Horde wrote: Wasn't there the errata that stated all fortifications have to be outside 3" unless otherwise stated? This doesn't say anything so surely the fortification ruling will still apply as it doesn't explicitly state otherwise?
WWG does state otherwise. The previewed rule dictates how it is allowed to deploy.
Yeah I think you are right. The main rules dictate how you deploy a Fort (ie just like other units in your list) so the CA ruling applies to all Forts that use the "standard" deployment rules.
But as the WWG has it's own deploy rules, the CA ruling shouldn't apply. But that also means you wouldn't ever get to remove a piece of terrain either.
However, that begs 2 questions:
A) how long is it going to last as I could see this getting FAQd real quick and
B) if the WWG rules do override the standard deploy rules (including the CA rule) then why didn't the old WWG rules override them since the old/current WWG rules also have a special deploy rule?
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The rules for WWG indicate it is terrain once placed. Implies it is not terrain for placing it.
vipoid wrote: By the way, remember when GW was extolling about the new Autarch kit being compatible with other ones?
Apparently they've since changed the article so that it no longer mentions using the Dragon Fusion Gun with Swooping Hawk Wings.
Just for anyone who was hoping the Codex autarch would have different rules to the one in the box set.
Grrrr.
How hard would it be to just say “take a shooty toy and a stabby toy, with an optional movement toy”. Go crazy with freedom.
From a game play POV does it mater if you have wings or a jump pack when moving close enout to fusion blast something? They do the same job, just with different flavor.
vipoid wrote: By the way, remember when GW was extolling about the new Autarch kit being compatible with other ones?
Apparently they've since changed the article so that it no longer mentions using the Dragon Fusion Gun with Swooping Hawk Wings.
Just for anyone who was hoping the Codex autarch would have different rules to the one in the box set.
Weird, because when i look at the old version of the article, through the medium of Kirioth's video from over a month ago, it doesn't seem to have been there in the first place
https://youtu.be/rBR4zUTyldM
The fire dragon article mentioned, and still mentions pairing the dragon fusion gun with swooping hawk wings on the autarch model.
It’s not just Fire Dragons who can access this new cooking equipment – the new Autarch can ‘borrow’ one when they don’t feel like lugging around a Dark Reaper’s missile launcher. Dragon fusion guns are an even deadlier prospect in an Autarch’s hands, and pair very well with the extra mobility of Swooping Hawk wings or a Warp Spider jump generator.
vipoid wrote: By the way, remember when GW was extolling about the new Autarch kit being compatible with other ones?
Apparently they've since changed the article so that it no longer mentions using the Dragon Fusion Gun with Swooping Hawk Wings.
Just for anyone who was hoping the Codex autarch would have different rules to the one in the box set.
Grrrr.
How hard would it be to just say “take a shooty toy and a stabby toy, with an optional movement toy”. Go crazy with freedom.
From a game play POV does it mater if you have wings or a jump pack when moving close enout to fusion blast something? They do the same job, just with different flavor.
Yeah I'm really annoyed at the Autarchs lack of customization especially since now there is existing plastic to mix-n-max. Heck, you can even use a Shining Spear Exarch and both the Plastic Autarch to mix-and-match a Skyrunner.
To think GW is missing out on an opportunity to make us buy 2-3 lots just for 1 model.
It gets worse when you realize that Marine Captains and Chaos Lords (the equivalents to Autarchs) still get all their toys.
And it's yet still worse when you notice all the newer HQs being released have very few options (meaning it's less likely Autarchs will get there flexibility back)
vipoid wrote: By the way, remember when GW was extolling about the new Autarch kit being compatible with other ones?
Apparently they've since changed the article so that it no longer mentions using the Dragon Fusion Gun with Swooping Hawk Wings.
Just for anyone who was hoping the Codex autarch would have different rules to the one in the box set.
Grrrr.
How hard would it be to just say “take a shooty toy and a stabby toy, with an optional movement toy”. Go crazy with freedom.
From a game play POV does it mater if you have wings or a jump pack when moving close enout to fusion blast something? They do the same job, just with different flavor.
Yeah I'm really annoyed at the Autarchs lack of customization especially since now there is existing plastic to mix-n-max. Heck, you can even use a Shining Spear Exarch and both the Plastic Autarch to mix-and-match a Skyrunner.
To think GW is missing out on an opportunity to make us buy 2-3 lots just for 1 model.
It gets worse when you realize that Marine Captains and Chaos Lords (the equivalents to Autarchs) still get all their toys.
And it's yet still worse when you notice all the newer HQs being released have very few options (meaning it's less likely Autarchs will get there flexibility back)
-
Yes and no on the marine captains. They have their own no model no rules issues for the primaris ones, although the firstborn get all the options grandfathered in.
I was planning on getting the winged guy to mix and match, he fits my army theme better. One less sale from me there. I’ll make do with the spider autarch. At least until I get the shining spear box to kitbash one on a bike. Assuming we keep that option.
"Don't you put that evil on me Ricky Bobby!"
In all seriousness that would be a crushing blow to my army fluff if the Skyrunner Autarch is no longer available.
Sure I could continue using the Legends entry or do a head swap to be 2nd jetbike Farseer, but it's not the same.
I've played my Jetbike Autarch in just about every list since the end of 4th ed. Not having him as a option would make my army not feel like MY army.
"Don't you put that evil on me Ricky Bobby!"
In all seriousness that would be a crushing blow to my army fluff if the Skyrunner Autarch is no longer available.
Sure I could continue using the Legends entry or do a head swap to be 2nd jetbike Farseer, but it's not the same.
I've played my Jetbike Autarch in just about every list since the end of 4th ed. Not having him as a option would make my army not feel like MY army.
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Right there with you. The theme of my army is “getting mud on your boots is for lesser races”. Everyone on a bike, in a transport, or on the wing. Bike autarch is the way I field mine.
a spider guy works well enough, and is how I’m going to build the one I got from the Omens box. But I’d much rather have wings or a bike.
Are the Ynnari Trio being sold in other countries? They're not on a few country's sites that I've checked. It's unlikely, but I hope maybe they'll be reboxed separately somehow.
They're all on separate sprues, and I think they're the last box from gathering storm that hasn't been split up yet. So I think getting separate boxes is exactly what will happen now.
I hate to pile on with excessive "GW bad", but it amazes me that war-com writes articles on this sort of thing and leaves this incredibly crucial clause out. Do you folks think the authors of those posts play the game? I mean, maybe they got incomplete info from the rules writers so it's not their fault, but then, shame on the rules writers for giving an incomplete picture...
ETA: to be clear, this is probably a good thing; I don't want Battle Focus to be the degenerate, salt-inducing rule it was in older editions.
I hate to pile on with excessive "GW bad", but it amazes me that war-com writes articles on this sort of thing and leaves this incredibly crucial clause out. Do you folks think the authors of those posts play the game? I mean, maybe they got incomplete info from the rules writers so it's not their fault, but then, shame on the rules writers for giving an incomplete picture...
ETA: to be clear, this is probably a good thing; I don't want Battle Focus to be the degenerate, salt-inducing rule it was in older editions.
No I think the WarCom articles SPECIFICALLY leave out crucial info sometimes. Maybe not always intentional but it's very clear that the articles are written to generate hype and sales for new products. You will sell far more units if something seems OP
Overall I think it's a good thing to limit Battle Focus to not be allowed from Reinforcements and to handicap moving into terrain. Although there is still room for shenanigans, like moving BEHIND the terrain instead of through it
vipoid wrote: I'm curious as to how that Battle Focus area terrain rule will interact with Harlequins. Don't they ignore terrain when moving?
They do, but the rule takes precedence for determining the value rolls for battle focus.
Won't even be relevant since Harlies have never had Battle Focus, nor are they likely to get it in the new codex. Battle Focus has always been a CWE thing, part of their Path structured society, which Harlies do not follow.
Just because they are now sharing a Codex doesn't mean they use all the same rules.
I'm wondering what happens if the unit is already in terrain. RAW the penalty still stands but I have to wonder if it should apply when you're already in the terrain.
So my first thought was that Strands of Fate might help with these Battle Focus move in terrain rolls, but after checking the 6 categories of rolls, I don't think it can.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: I'm wondering what happens if the unit is already in terrain. RAW the penalty still stands but I have to wonder if it should apply when you're already in the terrain.
That is the exact scenario when you need it to apply. It's to stop the player moving into terrain, shooting and then using battle focus to move out of the terrain to make themselves be out of line of sight.
Yes they can still risk it with the rule, but it's 50/50 that they may be left in the terrain and targettable.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: I'm wondering what happens if the unit is already in terrain. RAW the penalty still stands but I have to wonder if it should apply when you're already in the terrain.
That is the exact scenario when you need it to apply. It's to stop the player moving into terrain, shooting and then using battle focus to move out of the terrain to make themselves be out of line of sight.
Yes they can still risk it with the rule, but it's 50/50 that they may be left in the terrain and targettable.
Right. The model is intending to move over terrain in some fashion and the penalty kicks in so any unit intending to battle focus needs to make sure they don't have a toe in on any cover.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: I'm wondering what happens if the unit is already in terrain. RAW the penalty still stands but I have to wonder if it should apply when you're already in the terrain.
For sake of balance? Yes. Or obscuring needs to be changed so you can't touch it, shoot at will, move 1mm back and be immune to return fire.
Want this restriction or change core terrain rules?
vipoid wrote: By the way, remember when GW was extolling about the new Autarch kit being compatible with other ones?
Apparently they've since changed the article so that it no longer mentions using the Dragon Fusion Gun with Swooping Hawk Wings.
Just for anyone who was hoping the Codex autarch would have different rules to the one in the box set.
Grrrr.
How hard would it be to just say “take a shooty toy and a stabby toy, with an optional movement toy”. Go crazy with freedom.
From a game play POV does it mater if you have wings or a jump pack when moving close enout to fusion blast something? They do the same job, just with different flavor.
Yeah I'm really annoyed at the Autarchs lack of customization especially since now there is existing plastic to mix-n-max. Heck, you can even use a Shining Spear Exarch and both the Plastic Autarch to mix-and-match a Skyrunner.
To think GW is missing out on an opportunity to make us buy 2-3 lots just for 1 model.
It gets worse when you realize that Marine Captains and Chaos Lords (the equivalents to Autarchs) still get all their toys. And it's yet still worse when you notice all the newer HQs being released have very few options (meaning it's less likely Autarchs will get there flexibility back)
-
What if. What if you just ignored the rule as written and paired them anyway? Aside from tournaments, I doubt too many people would actually mind.
Also, I cannot find any of the Ynarri characters or the Avatar on the GW webstore. Where are they?
The Triumvirate of Ynnead box appears to have been taken offline - this would appear to indicate a reboxing, though whether that is still as a 3-in-1 effort, or as three separate boxes is currently unknown.
Dysartes wrote: The Triumvirate of Ynnead box appears to have been taken offline - this would appear to indicate a reboxing, though whether that is still as a 3-in-1 effort, or as three separate boxes is currently unknown.
Oh wow, I thought they were already available separately.
Dysartes wrote: The Triumvirate of Ynnead box appears to have been taken offline - this would appear to indicate a reboxing, though whether that is still as a 3-in-1 effort, or as three separate boxes is currently unknown.
Dysartes wrote: The Triumvirate of Ynnead box appears to have been taken offline - this would appear to indicate a reboxing, though whether that is still as a 3-in-1 effort, or as three separate boxes is currently unknown.
Oh wow, I thought they were already available separately.
Unfortunately not. I've been waiting for that as I considered buying another kitty cat (and get a free space elf witch in the process, I guess ). But GW sure is taking its time with this triumvirate...
Bit of info on Yncarne. Interestingly, it seems like both Avatars can be taken at the same time now.
That's interesting so we could field the Avatar of Khaine and Yncarne at the same time? If so that would be a fun tag-team against my friend's crusher stampede list.
Saim-Hann and Ulthwe looking like solid choices. Alaitoc looks decent. Iyanden is meh as always, though the debuff on AP is nice with the -1 dmg the wraith constructs get.
Are we seriously up to four-part subfaction rules?
---
I'm amused by Saim-Hann, just for the ghosts of White Scars.
Bikes? We don't need bikes!
Our heavy stuff can pull this off. [Red Wraithguard and wraithlord charges for the win]
Is the Autarch even a legal build? The mandiblaster helmet's from the older Autarch kit and I'm not familiar enough with the new rules to know if that's a legal load out.
Is the Autarch even a legal build? The mandiblaster helmet's from the older Autarch kit and I'm not familiar enough with the new rules to know if that's a legal load out.
If the rules are as the Eldritch Omens set, no it isn't legal. You could only get the mandiblaster helmet as part of a swap that also exchanged for Banshee blade and wings. It was all or nothing.
If the Codex really has no change, then it is pants on head stupidity to basically make interchangeability then make it illegal to use it. You would have to wonder how it made it past Marketing or other management.
My theory with the whole autarch nonsense is that GW is afraid people will just buy third party bits instead of buying the two kits needed for the load out. God forbid we have customization.
I guess GW could solve that issue and release both autarchs in one set, but that would be pricey and such a dumb fix for a problem that shouldn't exist
GaroRobe wrote: My theory with the whole autarch nonsense is that GW is afraid people will just buy third party bits instead of buying the two kits needed for the load out. God forbid we have customization.
I guess GW could solve that issue and release both autarchs in one set, but that would be pricey and such a dumb fix for a problem that shouldn't exist
Then why design and tout the customizability? That is what is dumb. To design a feature, make art showing it, play up a feature in the hype only for the rules people to then not allow that feature to be used. It is shooting your own product feature down, and I'm surprised Marketing or other bean counting people would have let such a thing through because it would impact sales.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: Is it possible that the picture is of a striking scorpion (either a new aesthetic or exarch)? Isn't that the scorpion marking on his chest plate?
It could be, as it has the blade and helmet. But scorpion helmets have dreads (this one missing them isn't a dealbreaker). The fanes(?) on the back of the armor aren't something scorpions have though. That's more like a guardian or autarch kind of thing.
I love that we just got big reveals on craftworld traits and their accompanying strategems, warlord traits, and relics......and everyone is too busy debating whether or not a piece of art is a legal load out for an Autarch
Whoever came up with/and or is enforcing the stringent adherence to limiting customisation options for characters simply because the specific model doesn't have said options in their kit needs to be slapped.
Converting and making your character unique is supposed to be a critical element of the hobby (and one I have no interest in giving up). I would also wager that more players would convert with the available Games Workshop kits rather than seeking out 3rd party alternatives. Just shooting thereselves in the foot and pissing off players for no good reason.
In other news I love those Biel-Tan rules and can't wait to try them out on the tabletop alongside my new beefy Avatar of Khaine.
Picked up today's White Dwarf with the Altansar rules, very happy! I am a bit curious why this couldn't have been put into the codex. It's only a few pages, can't see it making much of a difference for the codex print copies.
Togusa wrote: Picked up today's White Dwarf with the Altansar rules, very happy! I am a bit curious why this couldn't have been put into the codex. It's only a few pages, can't see it making much of a difference for the codex print copies.
That's a bit like asking "why that skin wasn't included" with the original release of the videogame...
l0k1 wrote: I love that we just got big reveals on craftworld traits and their accompanying strategems, warlord traits, and relics......and everyone is too busy debating whether or not a piece of art is a legal load out for an Autarch
Togusa wrote: Picked up today's White Dwarf with the Altansar rules, very happy! I am a bit curious why this couldn't have been put into the codex. It's only a few pages, can't see it making much of a difference for the codex print copies.
That's a bit like asking "why that skin wasn't included" with the original release of the videogame...
They are a major Craftworld that has recently not only received new lore but a Major faction character update.
Togusa wrote: Picked up today's White Dwarf with the Altansar rules, very happy! I am a bit curious why this couldn't have been put into the codex. It's only a few pages, can't see it making much of a difference for the codex print copies.
That's a bit like asking "why that skin wasn't included" with the original release of the videogame...
They are a major Craftworld that has recently not only received new lore but a Major faction character update.
Togusa wrote: Picked up today's White Dwarf with the Altansar rules, very happy! I am a bit curious why this couldn't have been put into the codex. It's only a few pages, can't see it making much of a difference for the codex print copies.
That's a bit like asking "why that skin wasn't included" with the original release of the videogame...
They are a major Craftworld that has recently not only received new lore but a Major faction character update.
I think the answer to the question was in your own statement. You purchased the latest WD. A way to generate more income from sales.
DivineVisitor wrote: Whoever came up with/and or is enforcing the stringent adherence to limiting customisation options for characters simply because the specific model doesn't have said options in their kit needs to be slapped.
That was Kelly and Cruddace in garbage atrocity that was 7th edition Codex: Deathwatch (which then, despite being quite bad book, was nerfed four times in a row in subsequent FAQs and publication by these jokers). Alas, no one heeded warnings of DW players of what is coming and a big protest (that could have reversed this stupid course) never happened. So, yeah, players of other armies have what they asked for, really
I especially like how in 8th edition Index DW was the only SM chapter to have nerfed gear (to the point DW had separate, tiny dread equipment table) and in 9th edition supplement, some imbecile deleted SIA from anything that doesn't have a tiny button switch on a gun and got rid of most of DW specific equipment making the faction bland and flavorless. I am now waiting for 10th edition and introduction of this gak in other books to say 'told you so'
For people starting new armies, better to get the meat of the force done before the capstone centerpiece model?
Let people recover from the expensive Vs. Chaos box before dropping another high priced kit? Let them grab a few smaller boxes while they wait.
Honestly there is so much stuff dropping they need to separate it out somehow. Pros/cons to however they do it.
Also, at some point the new combat patrol. Forgot about that one.
Yeah they've probably done a bunch of research on what the average customer spends per month on a new release and worked out that for example ~£100 is the optimal figure. That means a model which will inevitably cost around £80 will be tough to buy alongside the codex, accessories, and any core models. Some people will still be working on the EO box too, and might only want to make a minimal purchase with the codex.
I skipped Eldritch Omens because it didn't have anything that interests me and the value felt bad. I don't fancy Maugan Ra or Dark Reapers either but I feel like restarting my Ulthwe army with 2 boxes of Guardians and duo of Warlocks. I don't think I have any 8th or 9th edition Codexes so I might as well invest in Collector's Edition Codex.
I wonder if the units from the boxset will debut with the rest of the range, or if GW will release them randomly a few months from now. Given that the autarch is part of that lot, it would be pretty unfortunate
Wow, four bullet points for the Ulthwe trait, that's a lot to remember. Hopefully they still have rules for Custom Craftworlds so you can make your own or try to put together a pair to match up a lesser known craftworld like il-kaithe.
I have a small Craftworld Eldar force which I don't plan to update any time soon. However I like the look of the new gem-effect dice. Maybe I'll pick them up, though it's not like I've currently got a shortage of D6's.
