If anyone is interested in seeing some pictures to compare plastics and resin, I've edited my post on page 10. If anyone got any questions regarding these, I'll try my best to try to answer them.
grefven wrote: If anyone is interested in seeing some pictures to compare plastics and resin, I've edited my post on page 10. If anyone got any questions regarding these, I'll try my best to try to answer them.
Thank you for those comparison pictures!
It looks like the biggest issue is on thin weapons, so it is a good thing that Adam seems aware of this:
The Twilight Knight Sword is ultra slim. Like 0.4mm thick where a normal mini sword is closer to 1mm or even 1.5 in the center. I didn't alter it because I wanted to see how it would turn out so I could adjust future designs for the material.
That being said, If I can manage it, I'd like to have all the weapons made in a harder plastic. Maybe ABS, while the organic body parts would be PVC.
Thin weapons and fine details are the major issues. Fingers, faces, buttons, etc. Again, not a big issue for gamers, but quite the difference for painters/collectors.
I have no doubt that Adam Poots will sort this out. He is putting quality first and foremost. It would surprise me greatly if he sent out products to thousands of people that he isn't satisfied with.
grefven wrote: Alright, gonna try this. Dont hang me if it doesn't work.
Sorry, I couldn't get the images to work directly here in the forum, so I have to link them to a free imagehosting server.
These are a few comparison shots between plastic and resin. I apology for the poor images, but I've done my best.
I'll try to break the biggest difference down in word, too, to illuminate the differences even further.
Plastic left, resin right. The biggest difference is the sharpness of the details. None of the details have been lost in the plastics, but they aren't as sharp or clear. The studs on the belt, the snirkly thingies on the breasts are very soft, as are the very edges of the armours, in particular the boots.
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/ovha3
Plastic left, resin right. Same thing as with the picture above. The studs on the belt and the sharpness of the armour being the main differences.
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/lduwm
Resin left, plastic right. This is the picture where the differences really come out. The resin (this time on the left for some reason) has really crisp and clear details on the face. You can see how sharp the eyes, nose, mouth, etc. are on the resin, while on the plastic it is very soft and unclear. On the resin (not visable on the photo, though) you can see the eyes on both sides of the nose, while on the plastics, the eye concealed beneath the hood is very bad. Another big difference is the hair, where the resin show clear "brads" and "cuts" (whatever it's called in English) over the entire hair, while on the plastics they aren't visible at all.
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/z7a1k
Plastic left, resin right. Here you can see the problems with the extremely thin parts. The plastic sword is messy, round edges and have warped in all directions (up, down, right, left) while the resin is in better shape with a lot better details. You can also see it on the hands, where the resin clearly show the different fingers while the plastic doesn't. Same thing with the hilt.
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/pykhy
All in all, obviously the plastic is good enough for gaming. The plastic is quite stiff (apart from the thinest of the sword which is extremely bendy and easy to snap) and can take a drop without breaking, where as the resin too is stiff, but it breaks much easier than the plastics, and shouldn't be used for gaming at all.
Grefven, this is amazingly helpful, thanks! If I can get on my PC later I'll post them directly in the thread, or maybe someone else will beat me to it.
The 3rd and 4th images are rather concerning............
Plastic left, resin right. Here you can see the problems with the extremely thin parts. The plastic sword is messy, round edges and have warped in all directions (up, down, right, left) while the resin is in better shape with a lot better details. You can also see it on the hands, where the resin clearly show the different fingers while the plastic doesn't. Same thing with the hilt.
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/pykhy
All in all, obviously the plastic is good enough for gaming. The plastic is quite stiff (apart from the thinest of the sword which is extremely bendy and easy to snap) and can take a drop without breaking, where as the resin too is stiff, but it breaks much easier than the plastics, and shouldn't be used for gaming at all.
Grefven, this is amazingly helpful, thanks! If I can get on my PC later I'll post them directly in the thread, or maybe someone else will beat me to it.
The 3rd and 4th images are rather concerning............
Still concerning... I would like to see a test piece showing better quality than that face. Weapons done in another material makes sense, but what about hands, etc...
Just raising questions that I HOPE will be answered. That's what this discussion is for, I think. Hard to spend several hundred on faith when the experiment he did shows a quality in facial features (3rd pic) that I would not be pleased with.
He DID sell the Experiment if Death. Despite it being named such, this is the process to be used. Will it be improved? If so, How?
Total agree with whats being said, the quality has totally faded out when transitioned to plastic, unless it gets 'enchanced' somehow I'll pull my pledge before the end, given today's gaming standards we know that plastic can have far better detail than that...
I can understand your concerns, but the plastic vs. resin comparison shots we've seen so far combined with Adam's assertion that he's aware of the issue and is on it plus the fact that this game doesn't ship until November 2013 mean... I'm OK with it!
Still, I suspect we'll see more on this from Adam sooner rather than later anyway.
The Challenges of Digitally Sculpting & How the final print translates to plastic :
I want to bring focus to one of the challenges I face while art directing, working with digital sculptors. Not to say just working with them is the hard part at all, but when you take into consideration that their background 99% of the time is in the video game industry and that their tool of choice ( usually zbrush ) you end up with a very real and sometimes hard to solve disconnect.
A good miniature has just the right amount of exaggeration. The folds in their cloak are deep and heavy, the layers between the fabric are nice and chunky and the features of their face are deep and readable from a birds eye tabletop view. Hand sculptors that specialize in the craft, know all of this. However a digital sculptor is not used to this challenge and it really is a challenge when you have an art director like me on your back saying "no no, the belt needs to be thicker! not bigger, but like they are wearing a tire. the current detail is so thin it would barely print let alone be seen!"
The Pinup Twilight Knight was the 2nd digital model I ever directed. This was... 3 years ago? I remember how much push back the artist gave me when I told him how BIG the studs on her belt had to be! He said, "man this looks awful, its SOOO BIIG".
Her Sword looked huge and it came out all-right in resin. Resin being very forgiving and able to handle very slim parts. But as you can see the PVC version is down right crappy. I've debated recasting just that part in metal to add to the experiment of death box, which you are totally right. It was an experiment. I needed to invest and gain not just a working relationship with the vendor, but also learn up front and personally as much as possible in regards to the process.
So really the issue here is NOT the material, it was not understanding the limits of the material. The Pinup Twilight Knight was not designed for PVC. The New armor kits I am presenting, have been.
I till think a different material would be better suited for weapons, but we'll see what I can do. It sucks to just out right say it, but the more cash the better I can make everything. Since I am not factoring in retail yet, the cost to produce each box can be much higher since I am not factoring in distribution.
Tho, there is some danger in that because the end retail price of the box might have to be something crazy like $120-$150 if it costs a ludicrous amount to make each one. I am not running the project to get rich and I want to reinvest as much of the raised money into the product as possible. Haha, it would be nice to be able to pay myself at least a min wage salary for the last few years tho!
Objectively their is almost no loss of detail in thows Resin Vs. Plastic comparison shots, witch is pretty impressive. Mostly the biggest differences is that the details have became "softer" in the plastic. Witch is to be expected.
It's only that sword that was a issue, but as you said that sword was never meant for PVC.
The fact that we can get resin collectors versions of the models for us painters is awesome.
=)
RiTides wrote: And.. they're all already dead, or destined to die, right? The text of the highest two pledge levels certainly makes it seem so.
Yeah, the vibe (and let me tell you it's a very good vibe) I'm getting from this is that these are guys and gals waking up to some kind of afterlife. This of course fits with the name Kingdom Death, and those eyes covered in black ink gets me thinking of some kind of ritual burial.
My interpretation is also that the lantern represents the human soul, so these "survivors" are people that somehow clung to their soul through the passage of death. Perhaps those stone faces covering the ground are people that lost their souls? Lanterns as souls would also make that creepy Watcher fellow some kind of soul... collector?
There also seems to be something going on with some of the monsters looking like they are composed of human body parts, and the survivors in turn using body parts of the monsters to arm themselves. Thoughts on this?
RiTides wrote: And.. they're all already dead, or destined to die, right? The text of the highest two pledge levels certainly makes it seem so.
Yeah, the vibe (and let me tell you it's a very good vibe) I'm getting from this is that these are guys and gals waking up to some kind of afterlife. This of course fits with the name Kingdom Death, and those eyes covered in black ink gets me thinking of some kind of ritual burial.
My interpretation is also that the lantern represents the human soul, so these "survivors" are people that somehow clung to their soul through the passage of death. Perhaps those stone faces covering the ground are people that lost their souls? Lanterns as souls would also make that creepy Watcher fellow some kind of soul... collector?
There also seems to be something going on with some of the monsters looking like they are composed of human body parts, and the survivors in turn using body parts of the monsters to arm themselves. Thoughts on this?
All in all, very awesome stuff!
Reading the description of "The scrib" kinda sheds some light on the world.
The Scribe is the power behind the Kings and their armies. To men, he is a god made flesh, appearing in repose atop his throne with his tome hoisted by a grotesque tableau of slaves. In his book his words are writ into reality, sewing the seeds of small human settlements into existence with the stroke of his quill. Once the humans grow and reproduce the Scribe will return to harvest his crop.
Humans in this world sort of appear out of thin air with nothing but each other. Reading descriptions of the game you notice some of the innovations your settle meant comes up with are as simple as concepts as Family ties, and even language. They are sort of born into this world as nothing but animals at the bottom of a food chain, and must struggle to survive. But the irony is that by growing, they are just becoming ripe for the Kings to harvest their settlement.
Then when you read the descriptions of the Sun-stalker and "Holy Lands" you realize many humans who are able to advoid this fate by being under stronger monsters and entities for protection. (Despite the fact the deal kinda sucks for the humans in the end as their effectively slaves. But atleast their alive for now right?) But even then the horrors don't end their, as you have the forsakers and butchers. Some humans bassicly lose their "humanity" for the power to survive. But become the monsters that now hunt their former kin.
It kinda shows just how dark and desperate these people are.
It's sort of like you are living during the events of a creation myth.
I till think a different material would be better suited for weapons, but we'll see what I can do. It sucks to just out right say it, but the more cash the better I can make everything. Since I am not factoring in retail yet, the cost to produce each box can be much higher since I am not factoring in distribution.
Tho, there is some danger in that because the end retail price of the box might have to be something crazy like $120-$150 if it costs a ludicrous amount to make each one. I am not running the project to get rich and I want to reinvest as much of the raised money into the product as possible. Haha, it would be nice to be able to pay myself at least a min wage salary for the last few years tho!
Have you tried contacting Wargames Factory? After seeing what Mark was able to accomplish with them on his sculpts for the Dreamforge Games KS project, maybe they can provide an alternative in good, cheap plastic production?
Or, what about Reaper and their Bones material? Reaper has done a lot of contract work in the past on metals (Star Trek and Legend of the Five Rings, for examples), so maybe they can do the same for you with Bones?
Trodax and Lockark- that is some great speculation guys, and that awesome-creepy-mysterious vibe is why I'm going to be a part of this almost no matter what.
But as Tanner asks, I really do hope to hear/see some solutions to the quality issues!
These are the two that I think show what needs to be addressed:
I till think a different material would be better suited for weapons, but we'll see what I can do. It sucks to just out right say it, but the more cash the better I can make everything. Since I am not factoring in retail yet, the cost to produce each box can be much higher since I am not factoring in distribution.
Tho, there is some danger in that because the end retail price of the box might have to be something crazy like $120-$150 if it costs a ludicrous amount to make each one. I am not running the project to get rich and I want to reinvest as much of the raised money into the product as possible. Haha, it would be nice to be able to pay myself at least a min wage salary for the last few years tho!
Have you tried contacting Wargames Factory? After seeing what Mark was able to accomplish with them on his sculpts for the Dreamforge Games KS project, maybe they can provide an alternative in good, cheap plastic production?
Or, what about Reaper and their Bones material? Reaper has done a lot of contract work in the past on metals (Star Trek and Legend of the Five Rings, for examples), so maybe they can do the same for you with Bones?
Considering he has said he wants to keep things in America, I doubt he'd want to work with WGF.
Reaper isn't set up for US Bones production yet, and won't be until sometime next year.
I didn't think he was using a US caster, though? He mentioned it being the same as that used for Privateer Press and Super Dungeon Explore, and I didn't think those were manufactured in the US.
RiTides wrote: I didn't think he was using a US caster, though? He mentioned it being the same as that used for Privateer Press and Super Dungeon Explore, and I didn't think those were manufactured in the US.
My commitment is to bring about the highest quality experience possible. The brand has been built upon that and that will not change. I would not run a campaign to raise funds for productions unless I was confident about every aspect of the project.
The Pinup Twilight Knight is extremely finely detailed miniature, much finer then standard "chunky" miniatures, her face in particular is extremely faint and the experiment was to see how it would turn out in PVC. She does not accurately represent the future of the range because I created it to learn from it. All of the game components greatly benefited from the knowledge gained and have been improved from the very genesis of their design.
I am in communication with Ed of Trollforged, currently we are going over logistics and he is preparing some samples for me to evaluate. That is all I can share about that at this time.
If anyone has any more specific concerns, please feel free to contact me directly, either thru the PM system here or via the kickstarter. I get a lot of messages! But I will respond to them all!
kingdomdeath wrote: My commitment is to bring about the highest quality experience possible. The brand has been built upon that and that will not change. I would not run a campaign to raise funds for productions unless I was confident about every aspect of the project.
The Pinup Twilight Knight is extremely finely detailed miniature, much finer then standard "chunky" miniatures, her face in particular is extremely faint and the experiment was to see how it would turn out in PVC. She does not accurately represent the future of the range because I created it to learn from it. All of the game components greatly benefited from the knowledge gained and have been improved from the very genesis of their design.
As expected with Adam Poots and his Kingdom Death, this is a great statement. As I've stated earlier in this thread, there is a difference between the plastics and the resin. However, knowing how Adam feels about quality and where he wants to bring Kingdom Death. Even if there is an issue right now, I am quite confident that every issue will be addressed in the highest professional manner that is possible. Adam will not ship out products that he cannot stand for - in all possible ways, artistic included as well as quality-wise.
The armour kits and their weapons look as if they are generally thicker than things like the pin up twilight knight - I imagine this was done with being cast in plastic in mind.
kingdomdeath wrote: The Challenges of Digitally Sculpting & How the final print translates to plastic :
I want to bring focus to one of the challenges I face while art directing, working with digital sculptors. Not to say just working with them is the hard part at all, but when you take into consideration that their background 99% of the time is in the video game industry and that their tool of choice ( usually zbrush ) you end up with a very real and sometimes hard to solve disconnect.
A good miniature has just the right amount of exaggeration. The folds in their cloak are deep and heavy, the layers between the fabric are nice and chunky and the features of their face are deep and readable from a birds eye tabletop view. Hand sculptors that specialize in the craft, know all of this. However a digital sculptor is not used to this challenge and it really is a challenge when you have an art director like me on your back saying "no no, the belt needs to be thicker! not bigger, but like they are wearing a tire. the current detail is so thin it would barely print let alone be seen!"
The Pinup Twilight Knight was the 2nd digital model I ever directed. This was... 3 years ago? I remember how much push back the artist gave me when I told him how BIG the studs on her belt had to be! He said, "man this looks awful, its SOOO BIIG".
Her Sword looked huge and it came out all-right in resin. Resin being very forgiving and able to handle very slim parts. But as you can see the PVC version is down right crappy. I've debated recasting just that part in metal to add to the experiment of death box, which you are totally right. It was an experiment. I needed to invest and gain not just a working relationship with the vendor, but also learn up front and personally as much as possible in regards to the process.
So really the issue here is NOT the material, it was not understanding the limits of the material. The Pinup Twilight Knight was not designed for PVC. The New armor kits I am presenting, have been.
I till think a different material would be better suited for weapons, but we'll see what I can do. It sucks to just out right say it, but the more cash the better I can make everything. Since I am not factoring in retail yet, the cost to produce each box can be much higher since I am not factoring in distribution.
Tho, there is some danger in that because the end retail price of the box might have to be something crazy like $120-$150 if it costs a ludicrous amount to make each one. I am not running the project to get rich and I want to reinvest as much of the raised money into the product as possible. Haha, it would be nice to be able to pay myself at least a min wage salary for the last few years tho!
kingdomdeath wrote:My commitment is to bring about the highest quality experience possible. The brand has been built upon that and that will not change. I would not run a campaign to raise funds for productions unless I was confident about every aspect of the project.
The Pinup Twilight Knight is extremely finely detailed miniature, much finer then standard "chunky" miniatures, her face in particular is extremely faint and the experiment was to see how it would turn out in PVC. She does not accurately represent the future of the range because I created it to learn from it. All of the game components greatly benefited from the knowledge gained and have been improved from the very genesis of their design.
I am in communication with Ed of Trollforged, currently we are going over logistics and he is preparing some samples for me to evaluate. That is all I can share about that at this time.
If anyone has any more specific concerns, please feel free to contact me directly, either thru the PM system here or via the kickstarter. I get a lot of messages! But I will respond to them all!
kingdomdeath in Kickstarter Comments wrote:My commitment is to bring about the highest quality experience possible. The brand has been built upon that and that will not change.
The Pinup Twilight Knight is extremely finely detailed miniature, much finer then standard "chunky" figures and the experiment was to see how it would turn out in PVC. She does not accurately represent the future of the range because I created it to learn from it. All of the game components greatly benefited from the knowledge gained and have been improved from the very genesis of their design.
kingdomdeath in Kickstarter Comments wrote:@Breotan, ABS does not mean better quality hands down. ABS has its own limitations and strong points. It is EXTREMELY good with smooth simple objects, or things that are created on flat surfaces. However, it is not as good with organic shapes or detail that is on the sides of miniatures. In an ideal world ( for me ) I would use ABS for weapons and hard shapes and PVC for more organic models or monsters. But a lot can change as the campaign moves forward and I have a different budget levels to work with. Who knows, maybe we can do everything in solid gold! bwa hahahaha
Annnnnnnnnd you've won me over again
I want to apologize- I missed your first post on this (quoted above) on the last page. I appreciate your replying about it a second time, too.
Here's hoping you get over a million (I think you will!) and have full flexibility on what material to make every component out of!
I have seen enough of your work to trust where you are going. It particularly comforts me that you call the PVC sword of the Experiment of Death plastic pin-up twilight knight "down right crappy" . We are on the same page, and as I am sure you will Not be putting out a crappy final product, I will stop beating the drum of looking for a more detailed reply about the materials, and let you get on with the campaign now that I feel it has been addressed as best as you are able at this time
I thought it would be fun to add this! If we hit 420k The Adam & Anna kickstarter exclusives are getting an upgrade! A one shot challenge scenario will be added to the rulebook, and a bonus copy of each of their heads, modified to be compatible with the armor kits will also be included with them!
For those interested, the talented Yannick Hennabo is currently slated to sculpt them in late January. Yannick is the talent responsible for the Twilight Knight & Pinup Great Game Hunter miniature from the Kingdom Death range. I for one am extremely excited to see his work on these two!
I've had many many requests from backers asking me to make the armor kits available separately. Seems a lot of you are interested in using them for conversion projects or as rank and file troops in your army. I still don't have any plans for releasing them outside of the game box, but in the spirit of the holidays I've decided to make them available thru the kickstarter! They will simply ship with the rest of your rewards once everything is complete.
For a single extra Rawhide Armor Kit (makes 4 miniatures), Please add +$24 to your pledge level
For a 5 pack of Rawhide Armor Kits (makes 20 miniatures), Please add +$50 to your pledge level
*these are a kickstarter special and you must pledge at least at the game level to be eligible for these, that way the shipping is included.
After the campaign is over, there will be a pledge manager sent out that you will use to lock in your rewards, so you don't need to write them down or message me a list of your current total.
Considering some other concurrent campaigns, Adam's dedication is amazing! Less then 3k more to add value to the marquee figures, just amazing!
While not his intention, selling the kits in this manner would allow one to make use of them in a skirmish game context, very provocative...
I find the price costs of the kits very interesting.
$24 for 1. (roughly $4.80 a figure)
$50 for 5. (Roughly $2.50 a figure)
If they do this for the other armour kits, he may have found an easy way to get $50/pop from most people on armour kits. It's hard to beat the 5/$50 deal with this stuff.
Yep as expected this is loosing some steam after the first few days and diving into more normal progression for a board game. But you can see that the armour kits were clearly inserted to try and keep it growing
For those interested, the talented Yannick Hennabo is currently slated to sculpt them in late January. Yannick is the talent responsible for the Twilight Knight & Pinup Great Game Hunter miniature from the Kingdom Death range. I for one am extremely excited to see his work on these two!
...
Oh why do you taunt me, name-checking the guy who sculpted the Twilight Knight! Keep throwin' that guy work though, as well as Thomas David! Love their stuff, and if you keep offering it, I'll keep adding to my pledge!
Only thing I'm not liking is how it would be impossible for the male's to actually move their arms. I'd probably end up cutting off the spikes on the bicep-armour.
@orkybenji, I agree it is VERY convoluted! This is in part due to the limitations of kickstarter and the practice of adding stretch goals with more options and content. In just a week, what started as just a pitch video has grown into a ton of content!
I am going to spend some time re-organizing and trying to make things more clear. It's still a challenge, but I am looking forward to approaching the information organization again.
kingdomdeath wrote: @orkybenji, I agree it is VERY convoluted! This is in part due to the limitations of kickstarter and the practice of adding stretch goals with more options and content. In just a week, what started as just a pitch video has grown into a ton of content!
I am going to spend some time re-organizing and trying to make things more clear. It's still a challenge, but I am looking forward to approaching the information organization again.
I hope I didn't come across as rude, I didn't mean to be. I'd like to pledge, but want to make sure I'm buying what I want / need. After looking closer I think I got it all now. Thank you for trying your best within kickstarter's limitations.
Any way of seeing one of the figures put together with the "Add ons" in comparison to other figures of this range?
Can we see a size comparison shot of the figures alongside other figures of similar scale?
Are these the 54mm figures? Does "Boutique" just mean a special catchphrase for expensive? They are OK, but if they are just for the one game, don't really think they justify that price.
Watching it with interest, even if the price is a little too steep.
Grot 6 wrote: Any way of seeing one of the figures put together with the "Add ons" in comparison to other figures of this range?
Can we see a size comparison shot of the figures alongside other figures of similar scale?
Are these the 54mm figures? Does "Boutique" just mean a special catchphrase for expensive? They are OK, but if they are just for the one game, don't really think they justify that price.
Watching it with interest, even if the price is a little too steep.
I'm not sure if there is a current shot of the modular figures in comparison, but as a general scale guide (from earlier in the thread):
The KD miniatures are 35mm, so I think it would be hard for them to proxy for other games. But in the same time it's the slightly larger scale that makes it possible to add details, etc. that make these figures really stand out among others.
About the price, yes, they are a bit on the costly side, but in the same time you get a larger figure. Had they been cast in the 28mm range, I guess they could have been a $ or two cheaper.
grefven wrote: The KD miniatures are 35mm, so I think it would be hard for them to proxy for other games.
One does not use KD miniatures as proxies for other games. One simply buys KD miniatures, and cries himself to sleep at night because he doesn't have the skill to paint them in a way that is worthy.
grefven wrote: The KD miniatures are 35mm, so I think it would be hard for them to proxy for other games.
One does not use KD miniatures as proxies for other games. One simply buys KD miniatures, and cries himself to sleep at night because he doesn't have the skill to paint them in a way that is worthy.
Yeah... That sounds about right.
450k is the "Dragon Sacrifice", huh? I'm guessing that it will be a dragon armor themed pinup, like the phoenix dancer, lioness, etc. Excited to see it! The dragon armor looks awesome.
500k is another expansion. Damn you, Kingdom Death, just take my whole wallet already!
I hope it will be another pin-up addition, as these latest few KD has presented are really awesome.
Also, the 500k goal will be huge! I hope we can't reach it fast enough. :p I will most likely spend well over $1000 by the end of this KS. (I'm such a fanboi KD addict)
If the 475k goal is the Twilight Knight pin-up that might finally be the straw to break the camel's back.
While Dreamforge seemed like it knew exactly what buttons to push to pry more money away, Adam is running a very close second at the moment (mainly because he hasn't pried the money out yet ). Great looking models, and I'm interested in the gameplay as well. I do tend to like cooperative games.
Buzzsaw wrote: While not his intention, selling the kits in this manner would allow one to make use of them in a skirmish game context, very provocative...
I don't know... actually selling the things people want to buy? That's a bit outside of Kingdom Death's skillset.
Buzzsaw wrote: While not his intention, selling the kits in this manner would allow one to make use of them in a skirmish game context, very provocative...
I don't know... actually selling the things people want to buy? That's a bit outside of Kingdom Death's skillset.
I'm not associated with Kingdom Death and I find that comment to be in poor taste.
Do us all a favour Alex, please don't try to sound witty or intelligent or bash people with sarcasm; wit is not your friend.
I'm not a big fan of the base inserts. The 10 that come with it will be okay, but buying more and having all the figs based on faces seems silly to me. I guess I prefer more realistic terrain on my figure bases, and more variety.
Having said that, everything else is looking really good. I'm trying not to ge ALL the extra figs, but a few are really too nice for me to not splurge on.
Personally, I really hope that Adam doesn't include items that are already available from his general release (like the Twilight Knight pin-up) because you can already get them for the exact same cost (it had been a difference if they had been cheaper or would come with some additinal things)! I'd rather see Adam add a new item and continue to extend his range.
Ye, but I am sure it is possible to combine different orders in the end. I assume that quite a few people already own the Twilight Knight, seeing how it is about the first miniature that KD produced. Those that already got it will not get a second one, while it is more likely that they'll add a new item. People who just discovered KD, and own neither the Twilight Knight or the new item could just as well add the iew item as well as getting the Twilight Knight seperatedly.
Judging by the grayed-out image, though, it surely isn't the Twilight Knight that will be added next. If Adam does add it, I hope he will do it (or any other of the already existing general release) as a "bonus" to another stretch goal.
Grefven, they were referring to the teaser text of 475K. And old favorite / familiar, or the like. So, an existing sculpt...
Bases are making this significantly pricier for me... I'd like to see more things included for Survivor. Every stretch can't be add-ons, and it's costing me $40 more to get those bases.
Worth it to me, but I'd like to see the remaining armor variants doubled for Survivor (hopefully 450K doubles the dragon armor, like he did when the Lioness was unlocked and the Phoenix dancer).
Buzzsaw wrote: While not his intention, selling the kits in this manner would allow one to make use of them in a skirmish game context, very provocative...
I don't know... actually selling the things people want to buy? That's a bit outside of Kingdom Death's skillset.
As already noted, that's a bit uncalled for, especially as:
1) The Kingdom Death Kickstarter currently sits at $430K - clearly they're selling something that someone wants to buy
2) The creator regularly provides updates and listens to feedback - something of a rarity on Kickstarter and surely a sign of a creator who cares?
Now, maybe your comment was meant a psuedo-joke reference to his previous practice of selling limited quantities of figures? That sell out really quickly?
If so, OK, fair point, but it probably should have been expressed differently.
Alpharius wrote: 2) The creator regularly provides updates and listens to feedback - something of a rarity on Kickstarter and surely a sign of a creator who cares?
This has been said a few times, what Kickstarters are you people backing where they aren't? WHY are you backing them?
CMON has really dropped the ball on updates for RELIC KNIGHTS and SEDITION WARS - but you know when the updates stopped?
AFTER the Kickstarter closed!
I'd love to have a functioning crystal ball and all that, but, you know...
Would it have made a difference to you knowing they'd not update as much as you'd like? I mean, you're still getting a gak-ton of nice models (with SW at least ) at a good price - you just don't quite get to read as much about them in advance as you'd like.
...which is good - gets that "to paint" pile down a little in the time you'd otherwise have wasted
To be fair, there are more kickstarters than just minis ones. The other kickstarters I've done had disappearing comms after funding (except for major events like PDF availability)
Examples include:
Dungeon World
Traveller
Goblins Drool, Faeries Rule
Wasteland 2
Minigame Library
Dwarven Gladiators (Eastern Front Studios - not terrible, but it could definitely be better)
Andy Hopp's Low Life Miniatures
To name a few. I've found that the mini producers are some of the most thoughtful and reliable creators on the website when it comes to updates and comms.
grefven wrote: Personally, I really hope that Adam doesn't include items that are already available from his general release (like the Twilight Knight pin-up) because you can already get them for the exact same cost (it had been a difference if they had been cheaper or would come with some additinal things)! I'd rather see Adam add a new item and continue to extend his range.
That would be much more valid if he actually kept the things in stock, which the periodic times I've checked over the years is the exception rather than the rule. Also, I would prefer a gaming piece in plastic to a resin "sit on the shelf and look pretty" piece. I've never particularly cared for resin models; I can appreciate the advantages of the medium but plastic will always be my preference because it's the nice middle-ground of the durability of metal and the detail of resin.
Given that the Twilight Knight was one of the Experiment of Death pieces and portions of it came out poorly, it would be a good add-on figure to show the refinements (if any) since that process was first used. Not that the campaign needs a ton of oomph at this point, but as RiTides has shown the quality of the process is in doubt. Sure, people are obviously willing to take Adam at his word that it's better, but wouldn't it be nice to SHOW rather than SAY? Not saying he HAS to do it, just that there are a number of reasons that he could choose to do so.
There are already four models previously available in the KickStarter (albeit "limited edition" previously), and "pin-up" style models do make good filler as illustrated by the two and likely third already in. I'm sure we'll find out in due time what it is, but my guess is that "old favorite" for certain translates to "something in the existing catalog." I just happen to know what my preference would be if that's the case.
Given that the Twilight Knight was one of the Experiment of Death pieces and portions of it came out poorly, it would be a good add-on figure to show the refinements (if any) since that process was first used. Not that the campaign needs a ton of oomph at this point, but as RiTides has shown the quality of the process is in doubt. Sure, people are obviously willing to take Adam at his word that it's better, but wouldn't it be nice to SHOW rather than SAY? Not saying he HAS to do it, just that there are a number of reasons that he could choose to do so.
But wasn't the reason it came out poorly, by Adam's post earlier, because the ultra-thin sculpting on many parts just wasn't done with plastic in mind (unlike at least the new sculpts for the KS).
That would make it - still - a comparatively poor choice for a plastic add-on, if the fault is at least in parts with the sculpt itself.
KingdomDeath wrote:
The Pinup Twilight Knight was the 2nd digital model I ever directed. This was... 3 years ago? I remember how much push back the artist gave me when I told him how BIG the studs on her belt had to be! He said, "man this looks awful, its SOOO BIIG".
Her Sword looked huge and it came out all-right in resin. Resin being very forgiving and able to handle very slim parts. But as you can see the PVC version is down right crappy. I've debated recasting just that part in metal to add to the experiment of death box, which you are totally right. It was an experiment. I needed to invest and gain not just a working relationship with the vendor, but also learn up front and personally as much as possible in regards to the process.
So really the issue here is NOT the material, it was not understanding the limits of the material. The Pinup Twilight Knight was not designed for PVC. The New armor kits I am presenting, have been.
But wasn't the reason it came out poorly, by Adam's post earlier, because the ultra-thin sculpting on many parts just wasn't done with plastic in mind (unlike at least the new sculpts for the KS).
That would make it - still - a comparatively poor choice for a plastic add-on, if the fault is at least in parts with the sculpt itself.
Because models, especially digital sculpts, cannot be redesigned or edited ever. Especially not models that have already had it done to them once. They didn't understand the medium is what he says, and he goes on to state that he wanted to improve it back then. Given that the body came out quite well and it's really two components that need tweaking, it's far from impossible for them to adjust it now that they know what works and doesn't. Would it be exactly the same model then? No, but that's the price you pay going to plastic to pick up "gaming table durability".
For all we know though, "an old favorite" could be the Preacher, who has a very characterful pose, or the Forsaker, who both look pretty impressive. I just noticed the Twilight Knight pin-up accounts for the largest portion of the fan-painted miniatures gallery, is one of the oldest in the catalog, and would be a good "we've learned and moved on" demo that might not cost as much as other sculpts to re-introduce as some of the work was previously done for the Experiment of Death.
We'll find out in about a week when the KS gets there I suppose.
CMON has really dropped the ball on updates for RELIC KNIGHTS and SEDITION WARS - but you know when the updates stopped?
AFTER the Kickstarter closed!
I'd love to have a functioning crystal ball and all that, but, you know...
So..
Responds to Feedback, Posts Updates often:
-Mantic
-Kingdom Death
-Dreamforge
-On The Lamb
-JunkRobot
-Imbrian Arts
-Gangfight Games
-Impact!
Lacks in Communication, doesn't update:
-CoolMini
Yes, I see the Rarity.
In fairness to Alph's original point, you both have points (so one wonders how much snark is appropriate in such a situation); C'MoN has noticeably dropped the ball (and in fairness Wyrd isn't exactly covering itself in glory in this regard either), which seems not to be in dispute. So while one may list a number of other companies that have excelled at communications (I would unhesitatingly proffer that JunkRobot had more responses to backers' comments in their most recent effort then C'Mon had in all 3 of their mega-efforts*), is it therefore fair to qualify kickstarters as a whole as good on communication?
That would seem analogous to making a claim about retail stores, then listing, say
Bob's Hardware
Harry's House of Hanbock
Ma's Corner Store
SimSim Salabim's Salamis...
In support of the general state of retails stores, then, saying the only exceptions are
WalMart
Target
While the individual corporate entities lined up on the plus side may be more numerous, it would not seem to hold that the average experience of a random person would reflect that calculus. That is to say, if there are 10 stores, but 1 of them accounts for 70% of the business, it seems inappropriate to characterize the field as if all were equals.
Personally, I think it's too early yet in the lifespan of kickstarter to make sweeping generalizations, especially as we are only now entering the first periods of fulfillment from any of these companies. Will companies in the future be able to follow the C'MoN model, or will they be obliged to hew more closely to the (excellent) customer centered approach Adam Poots and other small concerns have embraced?
I think it's far too early to say.
*Interestingly, while I haven't attempted to compile the distribution of comments, this is almost certainly true: C'MoN, with 3 monster campaigns under their wing, with total cumulative backers of 12,995, has only 450 comments, while Junkrobot, (who have only 198 backers over 2 projects) has 534! Of further interest, C'MoN's last comments were November 11th.
For all we know though, "an old favorite" could be the Preacher, who has a very characterful pose, or the Forsaker, who both look pretty impressive. I just noticed the Twilight Knight pin-up accounts for the largest portion of the fan-painted miniatures gallery, is one of the oldest in the catalog, and would be a good "we've learned and moved on" demo that might not cost as much as other sculpts to re-introduce as some of the work was previously done for the Experiment of Death.
We'll find out in about a week when the KS gets there I suppose.
I hope against hope that it's the original Forsaker...
I have desired that figure from afar for far too long...
Doubt it will be the old forsaker. I think with the release of the new model there was a short blurp of text that explained that the old model had turned out a lot of problems with the casting process.
To be fair, comparing KD with C'MON isn't fair yet.
C'MON was pretty darned good with comms up until the project(s) ended. KD has not yet had a chance to prove himself for the 'after the project pays' comms. And since he has a LONG time between project end and estimated delivery it will be interesting to see how he steps up.
CptJake wrote: To be fair, comparing KD with C'MON isn't fair yet.
C'MON was pretty darned good with comms up until the project(s) ended. KD has not yet had a chance to prove himself for the 'after the project pays' comms. And since he has a LONG time between project end and estimated delivery it will be interesting to see how he steps up.
CptJake wrote: To be fair, comparing KD with C'MON isn't fair yet.
C'MON was pretty darned good with comms up until the project(s) ended. KD has not yet had a chance to prove himself for the 'after the project pays' comms. And since he has a LONG time between project end and estimated delivery it will be interesting to see how he steps up.
Jake
Ironically enough... no one was.
Thanks!
Really? Then all the posts which led to ones like this:
Responds to Feedback, Posts Updates often:
-Mantic
-Kingdom Death
-Dreamforge
-On The Lamb
-JunkRobot
-Imbrian Arts
-Gangfight Games
-Impact!
Lacks in Communication, doesn't update:
-CoolMini
Must not have happened.... Sorry, I was pretty sure I read all those posts in this topic. Oh wait. I did.
For all we know though, "an old favorite" could be the Preacher, who has a very characterful pose, or the Forsaker, who both look pretty impressive. I just noticed the Twilight Knight pin-up accounts for the largest portion of the fan-painted miniatures gallery, is one of the oldest in the catalog, and would be a good "we've learned and moved on" demo that might not cost as much as other sculpts to re-introduce as some of the work was previously done for the Experiment of Death.
We'll find out in about a week when the KS gets there I suppose.
I hope against hope that it's the original Forsaker...
I have desired that figure from afar for far too long...
It will never be the original Forsaker. The model was plagued with production issues, and dropped specifically because of that. The remake (which is a much better sculpt, in my opinion) would be much more realistic.
On another note, I've ordered the remade Forsaker from CMON, and after more than a month, I still have yet to receive it, so assuming CMON fethed up, I'd be more than happy to get the Forsaker through this kickstarter :/
CptJake wrote: To be fair, comparing KD with C'MON isn't fair yet.
C'MON was pretty darned good with comms up until the project(s) ended. KD has not yet had a chance to prove himself for the 'after the project pays' comms. And since he has a LONG time between project end and estimated delivery it will be interesting to see how he steps up.
Jake
Ironically enough... no one was.
Thanks!
Really? Then all the posts which led to ones like this:
Responds to Feedback, Posts Updates often:
-Mantic
-Kingdom Death
-Dreamforge
-On The Lamb
-JunkRobot
-Imbrian Arts
-Gangfight Games
-Impact!
Lacks in Communication, doesn't update:
-CoolMini
Must not have happened.... Sorry, I was pretty sure I read all those posts in this topic. Oh wait. I did.
Ugh.
When you said someone compared them to CMON - well... no one did. Your example? Not really a good one.
Do me a favor - go back and see how this got dragged off topic and note how it was via a COMPLIMENT to how this Kickstarter is being run.
After that, feel free to keep this topic on point - any off topic stuff from here on in will have... consequences.
@RiTides, What you call smart, I call fiscally possible!
@CptJake, I am actually sort of really you feel that way! I was really on the fence, turning over the choices in my head while going over the budget on just how many bases I could afford to add / how many people felt they needed.
Support after kickstarter ends - well the very first thing I am going to do, is take a few days off and catch up on sleep! I want to say I'd love to keep this level of communication ongoing & forever, but It would have to be exclusively in a few isolated places and some ground rules would have to be set in place. Answering questions is easy, but truly participating can be much more tricky. As a forum goer, I naturally very rarely have anything to add and the conversations can be vast and mighty indeed!
I actually quite like the CMON guys. They picked up a banner and believed in a bigger market for the independent miniature ranges and really pushed for it. What can make them seem distant at times, is that they can let the business side of them take over the fan / hobby side. Which I have to say is a very important skill when your running an operation of any size. As the kickstarter continues I am filled with just so much excitement I want to just scream YAAYY!! and give everything away for free! But… haha, I have to keep my feelings in check and spend some time looking over spreadsheets and frowning a lot.
But first I MUST finish the gameplay video. It is the highest thing on my priority list. Then I can think about how exactly to update / reorganize everything.
But first I MUST finish the gameplay video. It is the highest thing on my priority list. Then I can think about how exactly to update / reorganize everything.
You could also just update the text on the main page . I actually didn't realize there were graphics for the Survivor contents, but the text is a bit dated.
I am currently pledged for $45 more than I have things that I want yet. I'm pretty sure the next expansion will take up ($15? $30?) of that, and then maybe one more add-on figure... it's not going to be enough.
I would obviously love to see more monsters but it's getting pricey to add them! At the least, hopefully they continue to be discounted from retail.
I'm already selling a few things so should be in the clear, but yeah... looking at my bottom line very carefully too
And gameplay video is definitely the top priority, so it's great that you're working on that!
One armour kit constitutes four complete minis (two male, two female) clad in the respective kind of armour and a bunch of weapon arms to go with them.
The bottom frame on this pic contains what I've come to understand is, together, one armour kit:
Edit oh disregard the text overlay; one kit contains those bits once, not twice (thats because the stretch goal was doubling the amount of a certain army kit given with a certain level or whatever )
Daaaamn, that completely changes my perspective on the value of what's being offered here.
I was still tentatively under the impression that armor kits were upgrades to/for the basic survivor models, rather than self-sufficient kits unto themselves.
I'm almost certainly going to jump onboard now. The only remaining obstacle is the necessary tedium of actually registering on Kickstarter.
Not too excited about the barbi and ken stuff, but hey.
I for one will be looking over the play vid before anything else.
Are there more options later for the game. or is this a package deal, in much the same way as all of the other "Boutique" stuff, as in they are around for about five or six and then they are not given any more attention?
Not a real fan of "Oh, sorry we made something you wanted, we're sold out."
I hope the game plays well. Interesting concept and good looking sculpts.
I would like to see some more shots of the figures in comparison to the other guys in the selections.
size wise, theres still some really gaping holes in the project.
Not too excited about the barbi and ken stuff, but hey.
Barbie and Ken stuff?
2012/12/03 12:30:39 Subject: Re:Kingdom Death : Monster - Official Kickstarter Thread
Are there more options later for the game. or is this a package deal, in much the same way as all of the other "Boutique" stuff, as in they are around for about five or six and then they are not given any more attention?
Not a real fan of "Oh, sorry we made something you wanted, we're sold out."
If you're worried about it selling out or otherwise being unavailable latter... well, thank goodness you have a chance to buy it before that happens.
Are there more options later for the game. or is this a package deal, in much the same way as all of the other "Boutique" stuff, as in they are around for about five or six and then they are not given any more attention?
Not a real fan of "Oh, sorry we made something you wanted, we're sold out."
I hope the game plays well. Interesting concept and good looking sculpts.
I would like to see some more shots of the figures in comparison to the other guys in the selections.
size wise, theres still some really gaping holes in the project.
I'm sure Adam plans to sell the game after the KS,
although he's stated his dislike of the 'huge' discounts offered by some online retailers and the impact of this on FLGS so don't expect to find the basic game much cheaper than on the KS (unlike Dreadball & Zombicide)
He's already 'released' 2 expansions on the KS (Flower Knight and Dragon King) containing extra 'scenarios', cands and figures, he's not said if these will go on retail at the same time as the box or will be released later to keep the interest up
Size wise the human figures are tall but not bulky), 35mm figures, so if you're plaing to use them in gaming think carefully how you'll use them... eg a unit of 6'6 to 7' tall humans in an army may work, dropped randomly into units would look poor (compare the space marine with the middle KD mini). Actually they'd probably work well with the new Dystopian Wars stuff
I believe that the wording may be confusing, especially for people not following this KS from the beginning and don't want to read through several thousands comments to get an understanding of what is going on.
In the "kits", write a notice that it also comes with survivors and not only the "armour/weapons" upgrades. I think there is some confusion about what is going on. Also remember that not everyone is native English, and there might be language problems too.
Game Expansions:
Flower Knight Expansion + $15 (MSRP $30)
Dragon King Expansion + $30 (MSRP $60)
Optional Plastic Minis ( increase your pledge to get these )
Rawhide Dame, plastic + $15
Beyond the Wall, plastic +$15
Watcher, plastic +$15
Phoenix Dancer, plastic +$15
Kingsmen Regiment x 5 plastic minis +$20
Kingsmen Deluxe Regiment x25 plastic minis +$50
Primal Huntress, plastic +$15
Lioness, plastic +$15
Optional Resin Minis ( increase your pledge to get these )*resin miniatures are suggested for experienced hobbyists only
Rawhide Dame, resin +$25
Beyond the Wall, resin +$27
Phoenix Dancer, resin +$25
Kingsmen, resin +$25
Flower Knight, resin +$29
Paul the Survivor, resin +$25
Primal Huntress, resin +$25
Lioness, resin +$25
So, after pledging for the game itself, pick from that list to get the 'good stuff' - though definitions there will vary!
In fairness Alph, and illustrating the poster's point perfectly, that overlooks the newly unlocked goals:
Survivor Aya: $15 (plastic)/$25 (resin)
Stone face base inserts (10 included in game): 10 for $10/50 for $40
Extra Rawhide Armor Kits: 4 models: $24/20 models: $40
Survivor level includes Adam, Anna, Aya and Paul survivors in plastic(needed for unlocked stretch rewards) $155
Flower Knight Expansion $15
Dragon King Expansion $30
That’s $200 for the game, stretch extras and expansions.
The following Pin Ups are optional and have no game rules but can be used as alternate survivors with the relevant gear.
Beyond the Wall is more of display piece and really isn’t suited to gaming.
You do not need more than 1 of each monster as you do not face multiple monsters so there is no need to buy extra Pheonix, Watcher, Kingsmen unless you want them for some other reason (plus you get extras of these at Survivor level anyway)
The miniatures come with plain bases you will get 10 stone face textured bases in the game box you can buy more 10 for $10 or 50 for $40
So you are looking at $200 for the game and 2 expansions.
adamsouza wrote: Thanks DaveC. I admit I had sticker shock when I saw the volume of add ons.
Indeed - DaveC did it better than me, thanks!
Also, as previously noted, Adam will need to update the main page at some point with a graphic/price representation in order to make it all easier to understand.
I'm sure he will, but then, he'll have to do it again when we hit $500K - the perils of success!
IdentifyZero wrote: Something tells me, this could eat more than $500 of my money.....
I'm really hoping to keep my own pledge capped at $500. Of course I had to get the *deluxe* Survivor, so there went an extra $100 right off the top. Still, 6 resins for $100? Not too bad.
IdentifyZero wrote: Something tells me, this could eat more than $500 of my money.....
I'm really hoping to keep my own pledge capped at $500. Of course I had to get the *deluxe* Survivor, so there went an extra $100 right off the top. Still, 6 resins for $100? Not too bad.
And then you can sell 2 of them for twice that price on ebay a couple of weeks after the KS ends. Profit straight down the pocket for those that have the stomach to do such a thing.
What would really up my interest is if we'd be able to trade in stuff we didn't want for credit towards stuff we did want.
Like the T-shirt, or extra Kingsmen/Phoenix/etc.
I don't really want all the duplicates (even the extra survivors aren't really that tempting, I have too much to paint anyway).
If I could trade those in for credit towards the expansions/pin-ups I'd be all over that. Because, as people have pointed out, the add-ons are really adding up in this KS.
I fear that being able to trade-in would result in an absolute mess for Adam Poots when he tries to pack the different boxes. None would be the similar to the next one. I don't see it possible to do that, time-wise.
Schmapdi wrote: What would really up my interest is if we'd be able to trade in stuff we didn't want for credit towards stuff we did want.
Like the T-shirt, or extra Kingsmen/Phoenix/etc.
I don't really want all the duplicates (even the extra survivors aren't really that tempting, I have too much to paint anyway).
If I could trade those in for credit towards the expansions/pin-ups I'd be all over that. Because, as people have pointed out, the add-ons are really adding up in this KS.
Adam has said as a single person opperation he's not going to allow trades (quite understandable), so what you see is what you get
You could always ebay what you don't want
Or just go in at the 'The Game' $100 level where you just get the box game and no 'duplicate upgrades'
Though doesn't the Survivor and up level pledge get you some exclusives? Adam and Anna? Paul? No?
So yes, if you don't want a lot of duplicates and whatever else Adam comes up with between now and January 2013, the 'just the game' level is the way to go.
That way you can just purchase whatever add-ons you'd like.
Adam is working on the gameplay video at the moment and I'm sure we will see a more thorough pledge graphic once that's done.
Maybe I've been following the campaign too closely but all the stretch goals are either add-ons (pinups, game expansions, resins of either), expand the boxed game, or add to the Survivor and Deluxe Survivor pledge levels.
I do see the term "armor kit" as being confusing though as it does refer to complete models that have parts interchangeable with all the other "kits".
I guess I’m trying to figure out what type of game it is. From watching the video that’s there and looking over what’s in the game, I sort of gather:
1. You start as a survivor with nothing but a lantern and whatever you can find as a weapon.
2. You fight a monster.
3. Assuming you survive you use the monster to make clothing/armour/weapons (hence the different ‘armour sets’ that seem to follow a progression and match certain monsters).
4. You try to band together with survivors and make a society whilst avoiding the descent into madness and death, all the while fighting more weird creatures.
We only know bits and pieces, that's why the gameplay videos are eagerly anticipated. Although, unless the game is "fill this box with your bodily fluids" I'm in regardless.
The game seems to span generations of survivors, Adam's mentioned passing equipment down to children.
There's a light puzzle element to the 3x3 equipment card layout that allows you to acquire certain bonuses.
It looks like you can take your settlement in different directions progression-wise. The Dragon King expansion lets you start the game (I think) under the rule of the Dragon King.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I guess I’m trying to figure out what type of game it is. From watching the video that’s there and looking over what’s in the game, I sort of gather:
1. You start as a survivor with nothing but a lantern and whatever you can find as a weapon.
2. You fight a monster.
3. Assuming you survive you use the monster to make clothing/armour/weapons (hence the different ‘armour sets’ that seem to follow a progression and match certain monsters).
4. You try to band together with survivors and make a society whilst avoiding the descent into madness and death, all the while fighting more weird creatures.
You don't seem all that confused to me!
The most confusing thing seems to be the whole 'armor kit' thing - it really should say "4 more models wearing x armor" instead.
Other than that, this one' fairly straight forward so far.
I'm sure Adam's working on a graphic to lay out all the options though.
It does not list Pin-ups, only game specific pieces.
Thanks for that.
Looking over that some more, I think 'Watcher' is my favorite model from this so far.. really glad to be getting two, might go add a resin one as well..
It does not list Pin-ups, only game specific pieces.
I am digging that concept art for the Antelope.
It's a nice little graphic that guy put together though. It gives you a slightly different view as to what all is available, and makes me feel a little less like I'm going to go poor from this thing.
Is that graphic right for the Survivor bonuses? I didn't think we'd unlocked another set of that many armors yet (will help when Adam updates the text on the main page )
At the minimum, I think he misunderstood the text on the main page. The fur and lantern armor kits haven't been doubled yet- those stretches just added them to the main box.
grefven wrote: @IdentifyZero: I'll double that bet, and raise another couple of hundreds. :p I can't wait to see what $500k has to offer!
Noooo, please don't say that. I'm already wishing I could take $300 or so off my Sedition Wars pledge and just dump it into this.
You say that now, but I'll bet you'll be singing a different tune once your SW stuff starts rolling in.
Well, if my Sedition Wars stuff had got here at Christmas Time like it was supposed to I would. I had to pay back one gentleman online who had paid into my pledge and is now unhappy with the wait and another RL friend who wanted it as a christmas gift for his brother (and him) but since it won't be here wants to buy something else.
Combine that with my extra 2 copies of biohazard I am sitting on, on top of my own. Yeah.. I could use the cash for KD!!!!
As it stands, I think I'm going to be stuck with 3 biohazard sets and all related extras.. *sigh*
But first I MUST finish the gameplay video. It is the highest thing on my priority list. Then I can think about how exactly to update / reorganize everything.
Honestly, I don't even care about the gameplay video. I'm not buying it for the game, and I doubt it's the top priority for many of the backers. I just want to see what the figures in the box look like.
Because:
doesn't show a whole lot....
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote: I can't be the only one who finds this Kickstarter to be utterly confusing.
Of course it is. But most of them get that way. I just grabbed an early bird, and am proceeding to care very little about it until there's about 3 days left to go, whence I'll look through whatever the options are by then and either bump my pledge up to cover whatever it is I want, or drop to $1. But I do want to see the figures that come in the box...
The updates show a lot better images of some of the armor sets, scipio. I think Adam is going to make a graphic showing what is in the game box and in Survivor level once he finishes the video (which should be today or tonight!).
Okay, I made it in about 7 seconds before having to restart the video, because it sure *sounds* like "Sodomy, a monster emerged..."
Automatically Appended Next Post:
RiTides wrote: The updates show a lot better images of some of the armor sets, scipio. I think Adam is going to make a graphic showing what is in the game box and in Survivor level once he finishes the video (which should be today or tonight!).
That's what the latest update suggested, yeah.
---
Okay, just finished the video. Now *that* is what I've been waiting to see. Some more twisted dark horror that made me fall in love with the KD line. I guess we've seen what the 500k stretch goal is now.
The mechanics for that look great, thanks for the video. I like how simple the instructions are for the creature cards that we saw... very well designed.
On, the spider-thing looks pretty damn scary too. That one better be made of something strong, otherwise it's going to become a Beholder very quickly
I love the way Adam Poots throws in these little teasers in his videos. First the awesome, awesome miniature at the very end of his presentation video, and now this horrific carass-wielding monster at the end of the gameplay video.
If this doesn't push the doubters over the edge, nothing will.
I'm hoping it's plastic, especially if it's an 'in game' model. I'd have no interest in mesing with a model like that in resin if I'm going to be handling it.
Agreed on the game play. the AI deck looks really, really neat. Love how it counts as wounds too.
Alpharius wrote: Is the Spider Thing not going to be in plastic then?
Also, any pics for the work blocked?
Please?
One crazy hand-spider-thing for the unloved
I can only hope that they have worked out how to cast a plastic model with a metal skeleton, otherwise that thing is going to be losing pieces left, right *and* centre! Having said that, I want 2 so I can make one up as a floating ball/thing without the legs so I can safely play at friend's houses. I only just notices the angler-fish thing shaped like a human torso... that's very disturbing indeed! Nice
cincydooley wrote: Agreed on the game play. the AI deck looks really, really neat. Love how it counts as wounds too.
That was one of the bits that I liked too. Simple, but very effective. I'm really looking forward to seeing the other videos (and next year when it arrives)
Lt. Coldfire wrote: I'm not sure what to say about this thing. And that's all I got to say about that.
+1
Also Adam just a quick question does it means if one survivor dies during the first turn there is no way for that player to be back on the game? That might be a bit of a bummer if playing on a group.
endtransmission wrote:The mechanics for that look great, thanks for the video. I like how simple the instructions are for the creature cards that we saw... very well designed.
On, the spider-thing looks pretty damn scary too. That one better be made of something strong, otherwise it's going to become a Beholder very quickly
The trick is probably going to be some creative basing. I put together a Forgeworld Heirophant Bio-Titan which has a similar problem (although the KS model definitely looks more spindly.) You'll just have to find good parts of the model that can bear a load and support it there. If you get creative, you can have it barely resting on some scenic detail (that's concealing your pins) and you end up with a nice looking, well supported model.
Not really digging the spider thing myself. It's the first thing from this project that hasn't impressed me. On the other hand, it looks as well done as the other models, just not to my taste. Oh well.
jake wrote: Not really digging the spider thing myself. It's the first thing from this project that hasn't impressed me. On the other hand, it looks as well done as the other models, just not to my taste. Oh well.
I just don't see it as being a good gaming piece. It will be a pain to store and every time you bring it out you will risk it getting damaged. It just looks way to delicate for resin or plastic.
jake wrote: Not really digging the spider thing myself. It's the first thing from this project that hasn't impressed me. On the other hand, it looks as well done as the other models, just not to my taste. Oh well.
I just don't see it as being a good gaming piece. It will be a pain to store and every time you bring it out you will risk it getting damaged. It just looks way to delicate for resin or plastic.
I suppose it might not be a gaming model at all, but a display piece. I mean, I assumed it was the big monster for the next expansion that we were told about... but maybe not?
It is intended for the game, as Adam posted a name & a tiny bit of info
"Creator Kingdom Death about 4 hours ago
Spidicules - He will introduce silk to the survivors little world."
Since what looks to be a resin master is on a metal stand I would think the plastic will have the body on some sort of support, maybe a column or similar which takes most of the weight (maybe with some going via the front hands) and the thin legs just have to support themselves.
So the plastic should be ok... maybe fudge the joints for extra streength (the resin would scare me though)
The good news (!) is that this will most likely be an optional add-on and not a freebie, so all the people who don't like it can easily opt out of buying one.
I'm absolutely adoring the game demonstration. It looks like the exact thing I've been craving from a game, well done!
The spider guy is hideous, in a good way! I look forward to seeing how much of a terror it is in the game, because after seeing how formidable just a single lion was, something like that's got to be epic. 450k has also been reached, can't wait to see the dragon sacrifice.
I also hope we are getting the monster from the "first" video. I believe that it is sorta like the final boss. And this game has no purpose without the "final act". It would be a gamble, even if I believe this KS to run much higher, to wait with it too long.
Well, i have the impression that expansions are going to be made regardless of if we reach them in the kickstarter stretches. The stretches just mean he has the funds to spearhead them faster and give us a reduced price in return.
Love the Spider but I think it will need to be mounted on a clear flying stand to support it properly. I'd say the figure at the end of the original video will be the final goal and will be set at what ever value will be necessary to make this go right down to the wire keeps the excitement up.
Hmm, the rules seem a bit complicated. And there looks to be a ton of record keeping. Though I guess they are pre-beta at this point.
I like the AI deck = life for the monsters. But having special rules for every spot you wound on the monster/survivor - it seems like the game (and every release for it) is just going to have to come with a ton of cards. I'm not sure that's a smart design ...
I like the AI deck = life for the monsters. But having special rules for every spot you wound on the monster/survivor - it seems like the game (and every release for it) is just going to have to come with a ton of cards. I'm not sure that's a smart design ...
It does sound a bit fiddly. But than again, the game will only ever be fighting one monster most of the time the way I hear it.
Gotta keep that exciting, different and unique as much as possible. It can handle as much complexity as other skirmish games with many more miniatures.
Schmapdi wrote: Hmm, the rules seem a bit complicated. And there looks to be a ton of record keeping. Though I guess they are pre-beta at this point.
I like the AI deck = life for the monsters. But having special rules for every spot you wound on the monster/survivor - it seems like the game (and every release for it) is just going to have to come with a ton of cards. I'm not sure that's a smart design ...
You have to remember this isn't so much a miniatures game as a board game with miniatures. The amount of cards and things the game will make use of only seems like a lot if you're used to your game components being just a few dice and a ruler. For a high end board game (which is what this is) that amount of cards and record keeping is pretty standard.
Also, I wouldn't say it's complicated so much as complex... and honestly I wouldn't even say that. From what we've seen it looks like the combat system is pretty streamlined, with the monster being entirely automated. This makes the game a lot simpler and a lot faster (if it's anything like other games where the threat is automated) than having a player control the monster . If anything, I'd say the designer has done a remarkable job of keeping what could have been a complicated game rather simple (based on what we've seen, anyway).
RiTides wrote: I can't wait to watch the video once home...
Just remember to turn down your speakers right at the end.
The music where they show the pic of the spider guy is really loud. I was listening on headphones and had to jerk them away from my ears.
Having the AI cards used for hit points seems a little strange. So possibly at some point the monster will attack, and immediately drop dead from exhaustion. And they are like kill-bots with a pre-set kill limit. So if you had enough people, they could just stand around, and the monster would attack them until it died from exertion. But maybe in practice it works out fine and isn't noticeable, but I don't see that it adds much, except having one less thing to keep track of. Unless the deck gets re-shuffled when it runs out normally through actions, and wounds are removed permanently and don't get re-shuffled in.
The combat doesn't seem all that interesting from that video, since there didn't appear to be many decisions for the player to make. They mostly just draw cards, roll dice, and follow instructions. But I imagine that the interesting part of the game is really the character and settlement building, so I look forward to videos about those aspects of the game.
While it's not stated explicitly, I got the impression that the cards not removed as "wounds" get cycled back through. So if you were really unlucky and removed all the "move" cards then the monster would just start attacking constantly. Could be wrong though.
It also appears that the players have to make decisions about the meta game that influence their choices in the game. The survivors shown ha the basic gear and so were unexciting, much like many RPGs have you start out on near-menial tasks. As they move on and get various gear they can customize their kit and by extension their role. Perhaps swords are more powerful, but in using your "loot cards" to make a sword your armor is not as good now. This would make how you play alongside a player with strong armor more dynamic, and the monster AI adds some depth here. Do you have your best armored characters sit in front and hope you don't get the revenge attack card?
The different difficulty decks are also an interesting way to fight the same monster type and have the fight be very different. There's a lot of randomness in the game, and I think that's the goal. Chance can be generous or it can be cruel but you never know which until you make that jump. That seems very much the central idea of KD.
From the way Adam speaks the AI cards will be returned to the deck (unless removed as damage) so no chance of the monsters dying of exhaustion
What's not clear is if they are
1. all shuffled together again after each monster action
2. 'used' cards are kept untill all cards are 'used' then reshuffled
3. 'used cards are placed at the bottom of the deck
I can see advantages and disadvantages to each
I'd imagine your strategy will improve when you have cards for some of the other weapons like spears/whips (maybe ranged?), who attacks from where and when will matter.
Maybe a heavily armoured survivor can play 'bait' in front of the monster while the rest flank it etc, especially on the much larger board in the game
Yeah, that ending bit was a little unexpected.
Oddly, though, I find that I'm more interested in the other aspects of the game (the research/construction stuff) than the combat.
Also, the new Dragon's Sacrifice pinup looks fantastic, and the ???? stretch looks like it'll be the heads of the 4 default survivors made into modular pieces. Also, Nemesis looks like he'll be a fun addition.
Fafnir wrote: Also, the new Dragon's Sacrifice pinup looks fantastic, and the ???? stretch looks like it'll be the heads of the 4 default survivors made into modular pieces. Also, Nemesis looks like he'll be a fun addition.
Agreed. The new Pin-Up looks ace and the expansion stretch goal could be another must. Just take what's left of my money and send me a Box-O-Wonder in about a year's time
Brother-Captain Scotti wrote: That video was excellent, cheers Adam for showing us that! Now hurry up and get on with getting it to us!
Spoiler:
Did anyone else find what happened to Zachary funny or am I just weird and suitably matched for this game?
Spoiler:
Oh, I thought it was hilarious. "I'm going to stab this lion in the ass! OH GOD, MY FACE!"
But again, maybe you just have a dark sense of humor like I do. The Dragon Sacrifice is another gorgeous model, I wish it looked a little more like the dragon armor set, but I'm still probably buying it. I'm guessing since 500k stretch goal was announced as a monster expansion, and now 475k has turned out to be an expansion, I'm guessing this one is more along the lines of the flower knight whereas 500k will be more along the lines of dragon king, I'm excited.
Adam, sorry if this has been asked, but do you plan for the expansions to ship alongside the game or at a later point?
Brother-Captain Scotti wrote: That video was excellent, cheers Adam for showing us that! Now hurry up and get on with getting it to us!
Spoiler:
Did anyone else find what happened to Zachary funny or am I just weird and suitably matched for this game?
Spoiler:
Oh, I thought it was hilarious. "I'm going to stab this lion in the ass! OH GOD, MY FACE!"
But again, maybe you just have a dark sense of humor like I do. The Dragon Sacrifice is another gorgeous model, I wish it looked a little more like the dragon armor set, but I'm still probably buying it. I'm guessing since 500k stretch goal was announced as a monster expansion, and now 475k has turned out to be an expansion, I'm guessing this one is more along the lines of the flower knight whereas 500k will be more along the lines of dragon king, I'm excited.
Adam, sorry if this has been asked, but do you plan for the expansions to ship alongside the game or at a later point?
Spoiler:
I especially loved the PPPSSSSHHHHH!!! sound Adam made Home run!
I'm not a huge fan of the sacrifice pin-up (Although I'm not a huge fan of the pin-ups in general. I tend to much prefer the other items.) The I'm-Not-Nude bikini seems out of place on someone that's about to get sacrificed though... I would think it would look more natural nude (and I understand wanting to avoid nudes in the Kickstarter) or with some sort of light robe underneath the heavier outer robe.
Yeah I really like the gameplay from what I've seen so far. I mean, initially it seems basic due to the example being with bare-boned survivors, but when you have more gear you'll be able to do different things. There are also supposed to be 'classes' from what I recall, so hopefully we'll be able to see more of that.
I'm thinking that may be 'The King" or whatever. Which is interesting and maybe disappointing? I mean it's a crazy model and it looks awesome. But the dragon looks crazier in the end-boss sort of manner.
Actually, they say in the first video that you "win" by defeating the Watcher.
I think it is awesome that the Manhunter will be released as a possible monster. It's one of the great miniatures that really hooked me to this game. I already own two, but can't get enough of that one.
RiTides wrote: I think he's a monster nemesis / anti-monster?
Actually i'd guess that he is a nemesis to the players.
If i remember correctly from the few cards visible earlier, especially the 'lantern passing' where a survivor leaves the settlement you roll a d10 each time it happens and on a certain result a nemesis event happens.
I'm guessing that the Nemesis Monsters might have a single stat line instead of level 1, 2, etc. and also don't provide materials that advance your settlement.
Because I was super excited about this Kickstarter and wnated to get my hands on something I went ahead and ordered a model from Adam's site (The Preacher pin-up, one of the few models still available. This was on last Friday. The model arrived this morning. It's very well cast and very clean, with really nice detail. I recently said in another thread that I felt that super sharp detail isn't quite as important as Dakka has recently made it out to be (or rather, just because some detail is a little soft doesn't mean a model is bad). While I stand by that, I am really impressed by the crispness and quality of detail on this model. The model looks easy to assemble and the parts seems pretty strong. Based on some descriptions I was expecting the thin arms or the handle of the hammer to be pretty fragile, but they really seem reasonably sturdy.
Anyway, I'm pretty happy with the model. Hopefully I'll have a chance to paint it soon (although I know I won't do it justice)so I can decide whether I want to upgrade my Kickstarter purchase to get a bunch of resin or stay with plastic.
jake wrote: Because I was super excited about this Kickstarter and wnated to get my hands on something I went ahead and ordered a model from Adam's site (The Preacher pin-up, one of the few models still available. This was on last Friday. The model arrived this morning. It's very well cast and very clean, with really nice detail. I recently said in another thread that I felt that super sharp detail isn't quite as important as Dakka has recently made it out to be (or rather, just because some detail is a little soft doesn't mean a model is bad). While I stand by that, I am really impressed by the crispness and quality of detail on this model. The model looks easy to assemble and the parts seems pretty strong. Based on some descriptions I was expecting the thin arms or the handle of the hammer to be pretty fragile, but they really seem reasonably sturdy.
Anyway, I'm pretty happy with the model. Hopefully I'll have a chance to paint it soon (although I know I won't do it justice)so I can decide whether I want to upgrade my Kickstarter purchase to get a bunch of resin or stay with plastic.
Yeah I hear ya man.
I finally assembled my Big Game Hunter. I'll put up some pictures when I get the chance. The detail is just absolutely amazing. I've never had another model touch this level of detail. I have had a couple small issues... like three bubbles, but they are tiny and easy to fix, and they weren't located anywhere traumatic.
I am terrified to prime her to get started painting. I shake up the can, and walk away for a drink about three minutes later and chicken out.
jake wrote: Because I was super excited about this Kickstarter and wnated to get my hands on something I went ahead and ordered a model from Adam's site (The Preacher pin-up, one of the few models still available. This was on last Friday. The model arrived this morning. It's very well cast and very clean, with really nice detail. I recently said in another thread that I felt that super sharp detail isn't quite as important as Dakka has recently made it out to be (or rather, just because some detail is a little soft doesn't mean a model is bad). While I stand by that, I am really impressed by the crispness and quality of detail on this model. The model looks easy to assemble and the parts seems pretty strong. Based on some descriptions I was expecting the thin arms or the handle of the hammer to be pretty fragile, but they really seem reasonably sturdy.
Anyway, I'm pretty happy with the model. Hopefully I'll have a chance to paint it soon (although I know I won't do it justice)so I can decide whether I want to upgrade my Kickstarter purchase to get a bunch of resin or stay with plastic.
Yeah I hear ya man.
I finally assembled my Big Game Hunter. I'll put up some pictures when I get the chance. The detail is just absolutely amazing. I've never had another model touch this level of detail. I have had a couple small issues... like three bubbles, but they are tiny and easy to fix, and they weren't located anywhere traumatic.
I am terrified to prime her to get started painting. I shake up the can, and walk away for a drink about three minutes later and chicken out.
I already know mine is going to turn out pretty awful so I've decided to just treat it as an experiment. That helps a little bit!
The Manhunter as a Nemesis. Yeah, that sounds just about right, especially as a "big monster" is supposed to be added as a stretch goal soonish.
The Manhunter, though, is one of the KD miniatures I feel would translate quite nicely into plastics. In my opionion, it isn't quite as delicate in details as many of the others.
My pledge went from 100 to 200 in the time span of 30min... I am very excited to play this! I am actually about to list all of my GW and PP models on EBAY so I can hire a painting studio to paint everything from KD to their highest standard.
Spidicules is not finished yet, that is a WIP photo. The sculptor made his legs impossibly thin and it is being reworked.
@Albino Squirrel,
Ah, sorry to confuse you. When a monster uses an AI card, it goes to the AI discard pile. When he can't draw any more AI cards you need to shuffle up the discard pile and draw from the top. So it keeps cycling.
The options available to each survivor is totally gear dependent. As they modify the game rules on an exception based system. There is gear that lets you, modify the AI deck, modify the hit location deck, discard mood cards from play, take extra moves, etc.
There is also a survival point system i left out of the video because I was worried about over complicating the explanation. A survival point lets you take another action and you can use them whenever you want. If a monster hits you, you could use a survival point to move out of the way. Or you could use a point to activate a piece of gear a second time. Survival points are limited and do not regenerate from game to game. So its crucial to manage them.
@Krinsath, yep you pretty much nailed it. I will add that knowing a monster, and using gear that helps you predict what its next move is and whats in his deck. Will open up a logical puzzle you can play thru for flawless wins. I'ts tricky to pull off but extremely satisfying.
@Orlando,
1. Once the monster runs out of AI cards in his deck, he shuffles his discard pile and draws from the top.
2. Yes.
3. Ive opted for the discard pile as it makes book keeping a little more easy. And it also shuffles, instead of just cycling.
@The Fragile Breath,
Everything will ship at once. Or I should say, everything MUST ship at once. Logistically, its a bit of a nightmare!
@Starweaver,
Holy crap how did you catch that! haha good eye! Yes, nemesis monsters come to you. they are bad news bears.
Been wanting to step into these figures for awhile now. This gives me a good chance for some great figures at a good price and to support some of the best figures I have seen.
Thanks for your hard work and hopefully you can get some sleep in between updates here
That sounds pretty cool. I'm glad there can be a more tactical element to the monster fighting once you have some other gear. Though I would be interested in more about how the game works with different numbers of players. It says somewhere it is for 1 to 6 players I believe. Does each player control one survivor? If so, how can you get anyone playing solo? Won't it be really difficult to defeat any monsters with only one survivor fighting? I'd be really interesting in knowing how the solo experience is, since I don't know if I'll be able to get many others to try out the game. But if it is fun to play solo, I wouldn't worry as much about that.
Well, the Manhunter is unlocked! Looks like we're in sight of the next Major expansion, sounds like it may be even bigger than the Dragon King one! I'm looking forward to it.
The Gorm is announced as the 500k stretch and the next major game expansion ( looks like it includes Gormour Kits).
Adam also announces that anyone pledging over $300 gets the Man Hunter Expansion ($30rrp) for free!
Looks the free Man Hunter is tipping a lot of pledges over $300! I'm curious to see if the first big expansion that features a truly freaky KD monster brings in many new backers.
Filthy animals have feelings, too. Besides, there isn't a non-pinup version of the Dragon Sacrifice and the clothing seems like standard sacrificial attire - justify it that way if you feel you need to convince yourself. She's one of two pin-ups I'm purchasing simply because I like the way the minis look.
The Gorm artwork reminds me of the Dead Space video games. And now that I think about it, I suppose the monsters do have that repurposed-human-flesh thing going on.
I'm normally not a big fan of Pin-up models, but these are so well done. I upped my pledge so I could get the Dragon Sacrifice, and the Lioness, so far.
At this point, I'm at $233 (including shipping), just waiting for an excuse to rocket past the $300 point.
Also, considering how WTF crazy the Gorm is, I can't wait for the KS to hit its next stretch goal. Not particularly because of the Gorm itself, but to see the pinup figure that comes from it. How the hell can you make anything that comes from that sexy.
Wohoo, the manhunter! Very nice. Not yet at $300, but I am 100% that I will end up there eventually. Can't resist beautiful miniatures.
Not too thrilled about the Gorm (too ugly for my taste, and not good ugly, and no fan of glowing testicles or vagina mouths), but we'll see how much this thingy will cost and what cool armour kits accompany it Gorm armour really makes me wonder.
I also really like the pinups, especially the dragon sacrifice and the faces of the lioness and rawhide dame. Too bad the phoenix dancer seems to have a weird face compared to the concept art, I really hope we can see some more pics of her (and of the primal huntress)...
Honestly, I much prefer models to be covered up, but I love the KD pin-ups. I'm definitely buying the Phoenix Dancer and Dragon Sacrifice. Manhunter expansion sounds pretty awesome, but I'm honestly not sure about the Gorm expansion, I was hoping to see a new monster, although with how huge the expansion sounds, depending on its price, I'll probably get it for all the other stuff it contains. And while I may not be a huge fan of the Gorm, "Gormour" sounds like it'd be pretty freaking awesome, and it is another monster to fight.
Since no one else has asked it, I will. Do you think the Gorm will still have its family jewels like the one KD sold forever ago?
Edit: Adam, I'm sorry to hear that it's a pain in the butt for you (understandably so) but I think it will make your customers very happy! Random thought, are there going to be any two handed axe weapons in any armor kits? Because I looooooove two handed axes, that would be so badass!
I do hope that he uses an updated Gorm sculpt. The head of it is nice, but the body looks like the sculptor just kinda gave up. Although I may skip it period since it looks far too much like a human infant, and those things gross me out enough without making them horror-styled.
But Gorm is one of the classic Kingdom Death miniatures.
Personally, I don't want to see Gorm (because it is the only miniature I do not own personally and I'd much rather actually have my holy quest for a bit longer :p), but I think it would be a waste not to use all of the current miniatures (non pin-ups) for the game. Yes, this also includes the Wet Nurse and the Forge God!
Well, I was on the fence, despite being on a board game kick as of late. The game play video sold me. I'm in for survivor level with the dragon and flower knight expansions. I'm not a fan of the pinups, but I love the survivor and monster design.
There might be weapons sprues in the future, its too early to tell and depends how the molds are setup during production.
The survivors won't be available until backers have their rewards shipped to them. It would be sorta unfair for me to release them in advanced. I might make an exception for a con ( most likely not ), but only if backers could "pick up" parts of their rewards. Otherwise I take being respectful to backers very seriously!
Nah, Adam / Kingdom Death either needs to use Greg's graphic (put link on main page), make his own graphic, or just update the text on the main page! Right now the only way to know what is included in Survivor is to:
1. Go through every update
Or
2. Stumble on Greg's image in the comments section
Ugh... it's been this way at least a week, too. Updating the text listing what is in Survivor on the main page should be so easy... it's just text!
I may type up a sample updated Survivor contents list when home- then you could just copy/paste...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and 500K reached, so you can include that when you do it... in one fell swoop
Doesn't include quite everything, but it's most of it thus far. The antelope is in the late stages of development, so give it a bit more time to come together.
To be fair, coming from someoe who is not a huge fan of mister Gorm, we should wait and see what all is in the expansion before passing judgment. He did say it was going to be huge.
Seems the kickstart has picked up quite some speed after hitting 450.
Will be interesting to see how it goes after this and which stretch goals are up next
As someone with experience in this sort of thing.. No, is not easy. Kickstarter's backend is AWFUL. You can't copy/paste without it going wonky, its incredibly slow, and pron to 'forgetting' about images when you goto change anything.
Seriously, among the worst website backends I've dealt with.
As someone with experience in this sort of thing.. No, is not easy. Kickstarter's backend is AWFUL. You can't copy/paste without it going wonky, its incredibly slow, and pron to 'forgetting' about images when you goto change anything.
Seriously, among the worst website backends I've dealt with.
Even just from trying to relay information on the forums I have noticed this: it seems to reassign image links every time that there is a change on a page. Which means any image links break every-time the front page is updated... ugh.
As someone with experience in this sort of thing.. No, is not easy. Kickstarter's backend is AWFUL. You can't copy/paste without it going wonky, its incredibly slow, and pron to 'forgetting' about images when you goto change anything.
Seriously, among the worst website backends I've dealt with.
I dunno, maybe I was just spoiled by the Reaper kickstarter. They seemed to have everything all lined up and easy to understand.
Reaper has Kit, who is their dedicated 'web monkey' (not in a nasty way)
so they had somebody who could 'negociate' the KS interphase (or fix things when they went wrong)....
Like when they found there were character limits and image number limits on the homepage (one of the reasons end up having to delete usefull info, as they can't fit new stuff on unless they do)
As Adam is a one man band he'll have to do it all himself (and I'm guessing he's a computer user, but not nessesarily a programer)
Well, here's some text, courtesy of Manuel in the Kickstarter comments. It seems to have everything. So... copy/paste away
I only added the rawhide armor sets in the optional add-ons section, as someone pointed out in the comments that it wasn't included, and made the section titles easier to see (since the Kickstarter comments don't allow formatting).
Let me know if you want anything ordered differently or separated out... I am glad to help!
The Game Contents Full Color Story & Rule Book
2' x 3' Game board
6, 10 Sided Dice
6 Sided Hit Location Die
100 2"x2" Gear Cards
75+ Monster AI Cards
75+ Monster Hit Location Cards
75+ Resource Cards
25 Innovation Cards
10 Location Tiles
Survivor Record Sheets
Settlement Record Sheets
Stone Base Insert x10 (425k reward)
Starting Survivor miniatures x4
Rawhide Armor x4
Lion Armor x4 + two new weapons (King Beast Spear & Cat Gut Bow) (350k)
Leather Armor x4
Phoenix Armor x4
Unarmored Armor x4 (55k reward)
Lanter Armor x4 (140k reward)
Fur Armor x4 (285k reward)
Lion x1
Antelope x1
Kingsmen x1
King’s Hand x1
Butcher x1
Watcher x1
Phoenix x1
 
Upgrades for Survivor Rawhide Armor x4 (80k reward)
Lion Armor x4 (350k reward)
Phoenix Armor x4 (200k reward)
Adam Explorer of Death x1 + Bonus Heads (420k reward)
Anna Explorer of Death x1 + Bonus Heads (420k reward)
Paul the survivor x1 (275k reward)
Aya the Survivor x1 (400k reward)
Allister, Lucy, Ezra and Zachary’s heads (475k reward)
1 shot challenges for Adam, Anna, Paul and Aya
Painting Guide for Aya
Kingsmen x5 (225k reward)
Watcher x1 (185k reward)
Phoenix x1 (105k reward)
Game Expansions Flower Knight Expansion + $15 (Includes Painting Guide)
Dragon King Expansion + $30
Man Hunter Expansion + $20 (FREE if pledge is $300+ HERALD OF DEATH)
The Gorm Expansion + ?
Optional Plastic Minis Rawhide Dame, plastic + $15
Beyond the Wall, plastic +$15
Watcher, plastic +$15
Phoenix Dancer, plastic +$15
Kingsmen Regiment x 5 plastic minis +$20
Kingsmen Deluxe Regiment x25 plastic minis +$50
Rawhide Armor x 4 plastic minis + $24
Rawhide Armor x 20 plastic minis + $50
Primal Huntress, plastic +$15
Lioness, plastic +$15
Dragon Sacrifice, plastic +$15
10 Pack - Stone Face Base Inserts +$10
50 Pack - Stone Face Base Inserts +$40
 
Optional Resin Minis Rawhide Dame, resin +$25
Beyond the Wall, resin +$27
Phoenix Dancer, resin +$25
Kingsmen, resin +$25
Flower Knight, resin +$29
Paul the Survivor, resin +$25
Primal Huntress, resin +$25
Lioness, resin +$25
Dragon Sacrifice, resin +$25
And so on this day... the impossible has been reached and we are stepping into the lands beyond rational possibility! Half a Million Dollars have been pledged to this kickstarter and I my pants will never be the same again.
There is just so much to say, so much to share, feelings, game insight, miniatures and special rules that I can't even begin to find the words at the moment.
So please, instead of me babbling on, just look at the pretty pictures. It is much more coherent then I am at the moment. I am so excited I don't even know how I am typing this up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
With no offense meant, I really hope KD runs a grammar check on things. Typos on that Gormite card.
I'm rather on the fence about this expansion, everything it comes with is pretty cool, I just don't like the Gorm model itself. Yet, it is another monster to fight. The armor is pretty sweet and the black sword looks awesome, if the rest of the weapons from this expansion look that good, I might end up getting it. I suppose I can wait until the end of the kickstarter and see what other expansions pop up. There will be more, I'm sure of it. I do really like there being small expansions and large ones, like how you can get one that's just a new monster to fight or one that's got new armor and other things as well, it's a nice touch.
At first I was kind of against the Gorm expansion but I have come to realize I am going to purchase every expansion for this game as the more content the better! I would really really love to see a battleboard created for this game.
@KingdomDeath
Have you thought about a possible partnership for a limited run with Games & Gears to produce an actual gaming board for KD:M?
I apologize if I am putting you on the spot but I would be more than happy to add some more money to purchase an official gaming board for KD.
I took a snip of the prototype board from the video. My group and I are now talking about building a custom 3d board so we can have our "settlement" built on it and keep a weekly "campaign". I will take down the image and delete it off my machine if it is not allowed to be here. From my understanding the board will be made of your typical board material like monopoly or risk but I could me mistaken.
I am just wondering if Adam is keeping in mind a total price to get all "game content" add-ons.
At this rate, it's going to be rather high. And while I love the look of this game, once I go past $300 for what is ostensibly a board game... I don't know, it starts to sound crazy!
Sooooooo yeah... I just sold my Rhulic to help fund this, but I'm usually "all or nothing", so if I can't get all, I get drawn back towards nothing...
I would really like to see some stretches that double the remaining armor sets for Survivor level.
Even things like the Gorm box- is the retail box really only going to have 4 armor sets? Is this game not designed for 6 players? That's what I find confusing... and a bit frustrating.
I know he's holding things back to goose the campaign along through the center (which he's doing quite well) but in my mind for Kickstarters, stretch goal does not always equal "add more money".
I'd like to see some that don't cost 1/3 - 1/4 of my original pledge (since this one was $40, for one large model, 4 small models, and the cards...). That's not a terrible deal, but you can only stack up so many of those until people start to hit their limits.
Now, if this was the Lion Knight, I probably wouldn't be talking this way............. but at $40 with a supposed MSRP of $60, this one just didn't seem to be that alluring imo. Clearly, it's gotten lots of people to up their pledges, but I'm just saying you can only do that for so long before folks max out, and you need to make the base deal a bit sweeter to draw in more backers instead of squeezing the current ones for every last drop!
Agreed with RiTides, especially the part about typically not having to pay extra for stretch goals. Some? Sure. But it seems like most of them are costing extra dough.
I'm already in for $300 as well, and as you said, it's a board game! Never in my life did I think I'd spend $300 on a board game, even though this one comes with some beautiful models.
primalexile wrote: I am in for 300 as well however that is my max unless he offers upgradable settlements and an official gameboard.
The game is going to come with a 2'x3' game board.
I'm pretty sure the issue people have is that the only hint of the official board we've seen is the concept sketch. All the actual pictures of the game provided are on that much smaller stand-in. I'm not sure, has it been confirmed what the 2'x3' board will be made of? Plastic? Cardboard?
I'm currently up to $200 and I'm debating as to whether I want to include enough add-ons to reach $300. That seems like the optimal level to get "everything" for the game in plastic (to this point), but to get there from the Survivor level, I'd need to add all the expansions (including Gorm) and most of the pinups (as I don't really want face bases). I'm still undecided as to whether I want the pinups or not, though they are starting to win me over.
Here's what Poots has said about the board in this thread:
kingdomdeath wrote:Right now I have a 2'x3' board illustrated but not painted. The entire thing was unique and was put together the extremely talented artist that handles the majority of the concept art. ( Not the Pinup Stuff ) I plan on having it printed and mounted to a proper foldable game board so that you can use it when its time for a showdown with a monster! I can also so it being used for any popular grid based game as a board, however I will mention that the squares are a little larger then 1". I prefer the extra room and it doesn't feels better from a design standpoint when a model can fit in a square with a little breathing room. Your more "in it" then kinda on it
kingdomdeath wrote:
I thought it made for nicer presentation since when I started the pitch video I didn't have much artwork for the game board yet. At this point and time the line work is done, there is a little shot of 1/6th of it towards the end of the video.
The more I think about it, the more I think I'm just going to cap my pledge at $300 no matter what is released.
In which case I'll just pick my favorite of his releases and, if I love it so much that I want to spend more on it than that later, I'll add the others.
So for now that'd be:
Early Survivor $129
Flower Knight $15
Dragon King $30
Manhunter (Free for being at $300)
Total: $174
My priority of add-ons would be:
Face Bases $40
Beyond the Wall $15
However, that'd put me at $229 and with the cost of the add-ons he's putting in here, I don't think that'd be enough to get the rest of the game content expansions, which is what I'm really after.
So, likely I'm still at $174 of my $300 allocated, since the more I look at it (and google painted pics of it) the more I think I'll give the Gorm a pass, and spring for the Lion Knight / spidericules / other game-adding-content when we unlock it.
Here's hoping for some stretches that are easy to add, and thus free... doubling the armor sets is probably being held till closer to the end but that's high on my list. Even better would be added game content that doesn't add cost... like a monster that gets included in Survivor level.
But I'm not holding my breath hence my prioritizing my list and deciding face bases and Beyond The Wall can probably wait till later if I really want them, and Gorm till much later if ever.
@phaeron
The pin ups will apparently all be available to one extent or another in the future, and I don't think there's anywhere close to as substantial a discount on those as there is on the game content.
plastictrees wrote: @phaeron
The pin ups will apparently all be available to one extent or another in the future, and I don't think there's anywhere close to as substantial a discount on those as there is on the game content.
Thanks for pointing that out. Now that I look at it, I see the pinups aren't really discounted at all. I guess I have plenty of time to wait until Jan 7th to see if there is any more compelling game content to add to my pledge.
You know, the purpose of this Kickstarter isn't to offer a killer discount but to raise money to finance the production of the product line. Some established companies like Reaper and Coolminiornot do use Kickstarter in this way, offering amazing deals primarily to generate interest and sell models. In those cases Kickstarter becomes an elaborate pre-ordering system, where financing is a secondary goal.
This isn't the case with Kingdom Death. The purpose of this Kickstarter is to finance the production of a board game. Adam is asking us to make an investment. In return for that investment we get some nice rewards, and there are further incentives for larger investments. The point isn't to get a bunch of free stuff (as much as we love free stuff), or even a great deal (as much as we love a great deal). The point is to raise enough money to get the game made. Investing in a Kickstarter is an act of patronage, not a purchase or a pre-order (oven if some companies like to treat it that way). There's nothing wrong with wanting a good deal or getting free stuff, but it's important to remember that we're contributing to finance a project we all want to see. The rewards Adam is offering are already quite nice and in many cases well discounted. The more money he spends on free stuff for backers the less money he'll have for producing the game.
I've run a few Kickstarters and I know that there's a point where you're not going to really get many more contributors by adding more free stuff. There's also a point where the contributors you have just can't afford to pay for more extra content. I don't know if Adam has reached either of those points yet, but I think he'd be smarter to focus on add-on purchases over free stuff from now on.
The Fragile Breath wrote: I'm rather on the fence about this expansion, everything it comes with is pretty cool, I just don't like the Gorm model itself. Yet, it is another monster to fight. The armor is pretty sweet and the black sword looks awesome, if the rest of the weapons from this expansion look that good, I might end up getting it..
Same here. I like the look of all of the stuff in the box except for the Gorm model itself, which I'm not keen on at all.
I'll probably skip this particular expansion and wait to see what else appears.
There might be weapons sprues in the future, its too early to tell and depends how the molds are setup during production.
The survivors won't be available until backers have their rewards shipped to them. It would be sorta unfair for me to release them in advanced. I might make an exception for a con ( most likely not ), but only if backers could "pick up" parts of their rewards. Otherwise I take being respectful to backers very seriously!
What figures are there on the website that are in scale and available for the game?
The survivors, in relation to the game is what I'm asking about. Are you going to put additional survivors ( basic, out of the womb ones) up for presale on the KS, such as with the other 15.00 options.
As for "advanced, I would like to purchase some figures, even through other means to start putting work in on for the game.
The game has a whole bunch of ways and things you could do. Those Gorn guys, for example, I was thinking of something like those. Skin masks/ clothing, some scrap weapons, and even in as much as the settlement, I could easily put a 4X 4 table together with this game. Even with the small though of it as a boardgame, I could easily use 5 each a side, give them all a side or portion of the table and play campaign style with.
As for a reward, I was more interested in cobbling together a batch of figures, at what scale am I looking to make them out of? 32MM, 35MM, 1/35 scale? 1/48? 28mm?
They seem to only be toga clad, with either a shard, stick, club, or whatever to start with, and then as the game progresses, they get the armor kits, or portions thereof. ( Is that correct?)
I see an issue in using the survivors, and wanting to either 1, use different weaponry, or use different numbers and types of survivors. Toas are fine, but if I was to just pop up like that, I'd start prying up those stone sections, and making some weapons out of, and adding in stuf like ropes, bags, food stock, and other survival needs in there. I wouldn't be just having a guy with a toga and... nothing else, except as a beginning player.
Reason I asked- Not so much for gimme gimme some free stuff, but I'd actually like to buy some sets of them, if possible.
I would like to get ahold of at least 12 or 20 of those basic guys, and arm them up with different types of stuff in there. some with the basic weapons, some with the stuff they get from wasting those other types of settlements, and the like. One even with a gorn tenticle whip, or in much the same way as with on AVP, where the girl put together weapons out of an Alien skull, and it's tail spike.
I was on the fence about the game, until I saw the gameplay. I'm honestly pretty excited about it, now. Really good looking stuff in there, and a good variety.
Im not sure i understand the above post, It certainly looks like you can make equipment from the stones, check out the sling rule when combined with cloth. Are you wanting to have all possible equipment represented phsyically?
Is there any indication of how long a game/campaign will take?
Jake, agreed, but $300 is a pretty darn generous pledge and I and others have to look out for our own finances just like Kingdom Death does.
So far the best deals are the game itself or Survivor, then the Flower Knight and Dragon King. It makes sense to wait on some of the extras at $15 for a single PVC model without rules.
Not that I don't love this KS- I do. But it's going to be almost impossible to get everything, so especially at this time of year with holiday expenses, I have to set limits.
Automatically Appended Next Post: A good value example is the armor add-on price. Buying a second game could be a lot better, unless you only want a lot of one armor type.
It is actually because of the holiday season I'm waiting till after the holidays to pledge.. since I believe it ends the first week of January ? As far as how much I am down for the survivor pledge with 1-2 extras but I cannot go past $200. That is usually the cut off point for kickstarters that I limit myself to.
Survivor $155
Flower Knight mini Expansion $15
Dragon King Expansion $30
Is the most cost effective way to pledge $200, imo. IF the Survivor bonuses continue.
Otherwise you could save $55 and get just the game, and put that towards expansions- the choice will be clearer closer to the end, but I think Survivor will win out (hopefully!).
RitTides, I agree. That's currently my exact pledge. I like the looks of the Dragon and Flower Knight. Survivor level is an excellent deal on its own, and the bonus items that are included at Survivor level and beyond are very generous.
Jake, I understand that the purpose of Kickstarter is patronage, and I'm happy to participate, but this patronage in a lot of the successful Kickstarters is exactly an "elaborate pre-ordering system" as you put it and this one seems to meet that criteria as well. We're not investors in a real sense, as we don't own a stake in the game or the company. I'm paying to receive a copy of the game and its expansions, nearly a year in advance, based on the promise shown in Mr. Poots' videos and webpage.
I really like the look of the game, and I'm happy to help fund it, but this isn't the same as donating to the local ballet or symphony.
spears wrote: Im not sure i understand the above post, It certainly looks like you can make equipment from the stones, check out the sling rule when combined with cloth. Are you wanting to have all possible equipment represented phsyically?
Is there any indication of how long a game/campaign will take?
Adams said a game session will 60-90 minutes ending in a hunt (and I think he's said a campaign could be around 15 sessions, the old memory is a bit fuzzy on that)
jake wrote: You know, the purpose of this Kickstarter isn't to offer a killer discount but to raise money to finance the production of the product line. Some established companies like Reaper and Coolminiornot do use Kickstarter in this way, offering amazing deals primarily to generate interest and sell models. In those cases Kickstarter becomes an elaborate pre-ordering system, where financing is a secondary goal.
This isn't the case with Kingdom Death. The purpose of this Kickstarter is to finance the production of a board game. Adam is asking us to make an investment. In return for that investment we get some nice rewards, and there are further incentives for larger investments. The point isn't to get a bunch of free stuff (as much as we love free stuff), or even a great deal (as much as we love a great deal). The point is to raise enough money to get the game made. Investing in a Kickstarter is an act of patronage, not a purchase or a pre-order (oven if some companies like to treat it that way). There's nothing wrong with wanting a good deal or getting free stuff, but it's important to remember that we're contributing to finance a project we all want to see. The rewards Adam is offering are already quite nice and in many cases well discounted. The more money he spends on free stuff for backers the less money he'll have for producing the game.
I've run a few Kickstarters and I know that there's a point where you're not going to really get many more contributors by adding more free stuff. There's also a point where the contributors you have just can't afford to pay for more extra content. I don't know if Adam has reached either of those points yet, but I think he'd be smarter to focus on add-on purchases over free stuff from now on.
(Not that I wouldn't love more free stuff).
But on the converse the investors need to get what they regard as value for money from the sponsorship; they won't get a share of the profits, so the deal needs to be such that they are willing to part with the money a full year before the product ships. Most of the people paying are doing so as some sort of investment rather than pure sponsorship (we'd love to do that, but we can't all afford to just give companies money). Of course Adam shouldn't be giving away the stuff at cost, and needs to make enough from the project to get the production up and running and pay for the pledge orders.
Reaper suffered a bit from their own success with the free stretch goals; as they had so many pledges the cost to provide the freebies to everyone was far outstripping the stretch values, hence the stretch goals being further and further apart towards the end. I.e. with the pledge count, adding 4 figures meant a production run of 10's of thousands of figures, which became impossible with $25k stretches.
It's definitely a very fine balancing act and Adam seems to be doing pretty well so far
For +$20 you can add the Man Hunter expansion to your rewards, the retail price will be $30 and I am sorry I can't quite hack making it $15 like the flower knight, the math sadly did not add up right... However! I have added a special level that any backer that has pledged $300 can claim:
THE HERALD OF DEATH
As a herald of death, you will get the Man Hunter expansion for free. At this price point you guys have done so much for the project and have been so BADASS, that is is a little something I can do for you. Keep in mind, that international shipping DOES count towards reaching the $300, so its also a little thank you to the international backers whom have been sucking up the hefty shipping fee. Thank you!
seems to imply that he is 'doing the math' and making sure that everything makes sense.
I think this KS offers a good amount of 'value' for what you are pledging, but of course like much else in life, that's all a matter of perspective, I suppose!
I am like a see saw on Gorm right now, I really do not like the model but I love the idea of getting an expansion, as of right now I am keeping 300.00 as my max pledge but I am most likely going to pass on Gorm as well.
I would also love to see 6 starter humans released as it only makes sense seeing as it is a 1 - 6 player game. My gaming group has more than 6 interested so we may be doing 2 campaigns or running it as 2 settlements in the same world.
The decision to only have 4 human starters kind of boggles my mind though.
). Great looking models, and I'm interested in the gameplay as well. I do tend to like cooperative games.
(since this one was $40, for one large model, 4 small models, and the cards...). That's not a terrible deal, but you can only stack up so many of those until people start to hit their limits.
