The buildings look nice. The miniatures look awful. The sniper and engineer are fine, but everything else is Terminator-shaped instead of person-shaped.

I was hoping for something more Dead Space than mutant for the Plague. I am not sure I like the models or not.

Dan

 scarletsquig wrote:
Some better pics, courtesy of Matt Gilbert, here's a link to the full slideshow (which seems to have pics of the mantic booth babes in it too :p):

https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=21AFEBFC9F9B9322&id=21AFEBFC9F9B9322!1343&authkey=!AEsNxjtxKPBxdQM

Good to see better pics, not a huge fan of the proportions on these zombie-things, though.

I really want the big Plague dude...but thats about it. I dont have much use for the rest of them, dont need the Enforcers, and no use for 28mm scifi terrain.

Guess Ill either be waiting until the retail release or seeing if I can get someone to add him on to their pledge for me, if thats an option.

Is the caped Enforcer supposed to be a Forge Father?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Is the caped Enforcer supposed to be a Forge Father?

No, it's an Enforcer.

 Cyporiean wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Is the caped Enforcer supposed to be a Forge Father?

No, it's an Enforcer.

He does look a bit stocky. Maybe it's just the angle from which he was photographed?

That plague guy standing on the wall reminds me of a Genestealer, especially with that paint scheme. I LOVE the big giant dude. I want multiples.

Those basic plague guys are alright. I hope we'll be seeing more Plague along the lines of the big guy aesthetically than the little ones.

Maybe I'm just spoiled on Sedition Wars' Strain models.

Space Zombies!

made from coral.

The terrain looke great

I reaylly like the small basic mutants, not such a huge fan of the bigger ones, and the enforcers look pretty good.

And since the games will be necromunda like, it will break my years long boycotting of mantic that I was doing since this horrible 8th race fiasco. I'll probably spend a few hundreds on this, and hopefully, theyll release some more original races with the planned expansion.

can't wait, everything looks great! my Walllet screams!

streetsamurai wrote:

And since the games will be necromunda like, it will break my years long boycotting of mantic that I was doing since this horrible 8th race fiasco. I'll probably spend a few hundreds on this, and hopefully, theyll release some more original races with the planned expansion.

What "fiasco"?

When warpath was released, The 8th race was promoted as this mysterious race that was so horrible and dangerous that nobody even talked about them. It was suppossed to be the race that define the warpath unniverse as an original setting, much like skaven in WHFB. Well it turned out to be skaven in space.
--

streetsamurai wrote:
When warpath was released, The 8th race was promoted as this mysterious race that was so horrible and dangerous that nobody even talked about them. It was suppossed to be the race that define the warpath unniverse as an original setting, much like skaven in WHFB. Well it turned out to be skaven in space.
--

Well come on. 40K doesn't have Skaven in space, or Dwarfs for that matter either

I'm waiting for Space Hobbits myself...

 Cyporiean wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Is the caped Enforcer supposed to be a Forge Father?

No, it's an Enforcer.

Uh oh. His head is the same length as his shin bone. Unless this is a case of "Mantic Photography [tuba fail sound]", then he's really out of proportion. I mean "makes GW termies look like scale miniatures" out of proportion.

Still, slap a spare forgefather head on there and he's good to go. Or throw some huge nipples on him and call him a Mantic Space Wolf.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

streetsamurai wrote:


I reaylly like the small basic mutants, not such a huge fan of the bigger ones

We should set up a trade when they come in, because I love "Kraka-DOOM" there.

The dude in the big suit looks really uncomfortable. Then again, I guess anyone would be uncomfortable if their arms were growing out of the side of their head.


These buildings interest me though. There appear to be frames they slot into, but they don't appear to be required. How modular are they really? We need details!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The dude in the big suit looks really uncomfortable. Then again, I guess anyone would be uncomfortable if their arms were growing out of the side of their head.

What has been seen cannot be unseen!!

The KS will focus on six races to start with (Enforcers, Plague, Corporation, Forgefathers, Marauders, Veermyn), and then after those are funded (we all know this one is gonna be huge!), they'll be looking to expand it further, possibly with an expansion book and another 4 races.

there are 6 but i was told no corp and no veer-myn... which leaves 2 open slots. thoughts?

Unless this is a case of "Mantic Photography [tuba fail sound]", then he's really out of proportion

FFS, you really do take any opportunity... this is a picture that someone has taken on their phone at salute and is NOT a mantic photograph!

Certainly looks interesting especially the terrain pieces. It does remind me a lot of the "Hexagon"terrain which I bought too much of to use with necromunda. looks like this will be a nice match.

What was bugging me was the Plague miniatures I had seen something like them before. Perhaps it is only me but I do see a resmblance between the big guy and the Spectrals from Living Steel. The little uns look a lot like genestealer hybrids - albeit no extra arms.

I wonder how nicely this would fit in with the plastic table top boards also being kickstarted at the moment?

Some snippets:

- Minis will be 100% restic. No hard plastic, but no hybrid metals either.

- Game will be played using a 3" grid on a total surface of 2'x2'. No tape measures. SW boards will work, but they'd have to have crosshair markers painted on to indicate the corners of the 3x3 tiles. Or terrain elements used to mark out the 3" space.

- Weapons (with the exception of some small arms) will not have a range stat in this game.

- No fixed config for the terrain in missions, arrange it however you want, and have as much as you want.

- Gameplay will involve different secret objectives for both sides to accomplish.

- Game will use d8's.

More of a Dust Tactics sort of game overall is the general impression I'm getting in terms of mechanics. Only with proper wargames terrain and interaction with it.

As for actual gameplay, very much Necromunda, Jake worked on that game for a while when at GW and has a good feel for what does and doesn't work with it.

So, not your average skirmish wargame, but not exactly what you'd call a board game either. Kind of in the middle, aiming for the spectacle of a wargame with the simplicity of board game mechanics.

is there an extensive campaign mechanic a la necromunda???

This will be the clincher for me, as if not, I might wait for sprawl ganger, wich is suppossed to have one

No tapes measures?

I don't like the sound of that.

Plus the miniatures themselves look...oddly proportioned.

Still, I'm curious about the terrain, so there's that!

streetsamurai wrote:
is there an extensive campaign mechanic a la necromunda???

There definitely will be, including the option to change gear between missions etc.

The impression I get is mission-based gameplay with an overall campaign where the various races are trying to salvage what they can out of the deadzone.

So, you'll play a scenario (often with randomized and different and secret objectives per player, so one side has to guess what the other is up to), see what salvage you can get, then buy new gear, get new skills etc. Very much like Necromunda in terms of that.

Interested to see what the other 2 races will be, if Corp and Veer-myn are out. Probably not Zz'or, but Rebs and Asterians sound very likely.

Wow, those models are simply not good.

Apparently getting promoted in the Corp requires them to brake your arms, extend your torso and cut your legs in half. I hope that armor is good as it doesn't look functional.

And 'the plague' is apparently a result of 'steroids' and 'a good workout jam'.

Live by the 'realistic proportions', die by the 'realistic proportions'.

So the rumours are true! Hordak and Skeletor did have a baby!
I really like the plague, well a bit iffy on the barrier jumping thing, but I love the big guy and normal guys.
Wasn't going to back this because of other projects, but this may change.

 Alpharius wrote:
No tapes measures?

I don't like the sound of that.

I do! Being a fan of Dust Tactics, most wargames seem a terrible fudge for line of sight and cover. It's one of the reasons Dust Warfare was a flop for me. So combine DT style LOS/cover, proper 3D boards and presumably Jake Thornton's usual simple but interesting rules and I'm looking forward to this game.

Of course, I'll mash the hell out of the rules and shoehorn in figures from my collection like I do with Jake's other games (God of Battles and DKH)...

Why do mantic legs never to be functional much less in scale with the rest of the miniatures?

Sure with aliens it's not as bad, as they could have wierd physiology, but most of the human models, have 8 stone man legs on a 16 stone torso.

I was starting to come around to mantic's sculpts with Dreadball, and while these aren;t terrible, i'd just like some kind of scale legs on them :(

HBMC has it right with that enforcer guys arms, poor chap.

Since Enforcers are (according to the background) are never seen outside their armour there is no certainty that they are still fully human

my bet is at least some degree of cyborging is involved, so questions about their legs/arms may not be valid

The Enforcers look ace, except the captain. I love that sniper. Am mainly in this for the terrain (and loads of it) but will love to get the figs. The Plague look interesting and I'd l ike to paint them up with glossy blackish ichor all over them.

Some good news about the terrain - it is going to be a set of hard plastic sprues.

So, basically, expect the terrain at least to be insanely affordable, really easy to clean up and build etc.

A "hard sci-fi" alternative to cities of death at a third of the price (or even less once this KS gets rolling).

I'm going to back this for the terrain mostly and lots of it I figure I need 120 to 150 3" panels! but I like what I've seen of most of the miniatures so far. True the Enforcer captain looks to top heavy and the arm pose is very static and I'm not mad about the cloak but it's not the only Enforcer captain they make. The plague will make good mutants just need to change the pink skin tone the big plague look great, the smaller one I'll remount on a smaller piece of terrain the barricade is to big on the base not mad about their paint scheme either but that's an easy fix. Roll on Friday. The actual game itself is actually the least interesting part for me if it's good all the better if not no great loss it's not something I'm focused on.

 Andrew Rae wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
No tapes measures?

I don't like the sound of that.

I do! Being a fan of Dust Tactics, most wargames seem a terrible fudge for line of sight and cover. It's one of the reasons Dust Warfare was a flop for me. So combine DT style LOS/cover, proper 3D boards and presumably Jake Thornton's usual simple but interesting rules and I'm looking forward to this game.

Of course, I'll mash the hell out of the rules and shoehorn in figures from my collection like I do with Jake's other games (God of Battles and DKH)...

You and... not a lot of other people, maybe?

So DUST TACTICS has similar rules, and amazing models, and isn't exactly setting the world on fire.

Similar rules here, with decidedly mediocre miniatures? I'm not sure that's a recipe for success.

Still, as you say, tastes differ - we'll see!

^ Dust Tactics is actually pretty huge.

It's not to my own personal tastes either, but there is one hell of a large fanbase there, more than at-43 ever had, in fact.

You won't see many dakka posts about it since a lot of the audience is board gamers and they hang out on BGG etc.

I'd imagine Mantic is looking at the wider board game market for this, gradually getting board gamers more used to a tabletop game style of gameplay in the hope that they might also get into Warpath or KoW.

Mantic's board games have always brought more cash in for the company than their wargames anyway, DKH was hugely popular as was dreadball (you can see just from the KS results).

Essentially, I view Deadzone as a means of appealing to the board gamer crowd (who have more money), but also releasing a ton of terrain and minis to flesh out Warpath in the process.

So, for a lot of us looking at it as wargamers it's going to be "take the sweet terrain, and the hordes of free stretch goal minis and run". I wouldn't be surprised if there's a $150 option that lets you completely cram a 4x4 board full of loads of multi-level modular terrain.

On top of that, the game is probably going to be pretty damn good, too. Jake's writing it, so you're at least going to get a better game out of this than sedition wars where the game itself felt like an afterthought.

 Alpharius wrote:
You and... not a lot of other people, maybe?

So DUST TACTICS has similar rules, and amazing models, and isn't exactly setting the world on fire.

Similar rules here, with decidedly mediocre miniatures? I'm not sure that's a recipe for success.

Still, as you say, tastes differ - we'll see!

Perhaps, but I get the impression Dust Tactics is doing pretty well. I'd imagine DT rules and DZ rules won't share much beyond being grid based. I like the basic DT rules but each new supplement seems to add more 'WTF?' rules. Jake Thornton's rules are always pretty elegant and he's good at coming up with really nice rules out-with what you'd expect. Anyway, my comparison was mainly about the grid system; once you've played a game like DT where a unit is in LOS/cover simply because it's in a square not because "50%+ of the unit are visible with more than 50%+ of their torso showing (flags and topknots do not count)........" it's hard to go back!

All I am basing this on is that right now, we're on the largest miniatures wargmaing forum in the world, and I don't often find myself reading about DUST much at all.

Which is a shame - it has some fantastic looking models.

I can't help but think that the rules leave a lot to be desired, or maybe it is considered more a boardgame?

A lot of its rules seem way too abstract for my liking - but... that's just me talking!

More on topic here - it is not encouraging to read about similar rules abstractions here.

All I need to hear about now are 'exploding sixes' and I'm out!

Gonna have to agree with SS here, Dust Tactics is tremendously huge... but it's a board game.

The board game markets outsell all these neato little miniatures games. Just like the video game market outsells the minis market... but we're on a minis wargames board so Dust Tactics and Call of Duty don't get discussed. Dust is a boardgame and it insanely popular with board gamers.

Just wanted to admit publicly that I am happy to have been proved totally wrong in my denials that Mantic would do a small skirmish game. Really looking forward to possibly getting this.

Love the terrain and most of the Plague figures, as well as the engineer type Enforcer.

Hate, hate, hate the Enforcer Captain and sniper. Capes? Really?

I'm also not a fan of the Plague figure with attached scenery. It looks well sculpted, but I hate when companies do that in general.

Not real thrilled about the gridded movement, but it could ultimately be a non-issue.

Looking forward to seeing more info.

~Eric

Dust tactics is very big.

Im loving the fact that Deadzone will be on a grid, gets rid of annoying LoS issues and makes for a very tactical game.

Other than that this will be nothing likr DT

So theres going to be no Veer-Myn in this game, well that sucks I hope they get added as a stretch goal at least.

^ They'll probably be added after the first 6 forces are sorted.

Dreadball had no problem at all releasing 12 different teams, so I imagine you'll get your rats.

It does seem a little strange to not have them as one of the first 6 though considering how they're a scavenger race, and the background for Deadzone is one giant salvage operation.

I am just not impressed with the models at all. Click the previous page of this thread if you haven't seen them, they're all there.

 RiTides wrote:
I am just not impressed with the models at all. Click the previous page of this thread if you haven't seen them, they're all there.

So in that respect, this is one way they won't be like DUST TACTICS!

Hopefully the rules help 'save' this, because right now, the miniatures are a letdown, especially after the progress made, and shown, in the Kings of War line...

 Alpharius wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
I am just not impressed with the models at all. Click the previous page of this thread if you haven't seen them, they're all there.

So in that respect, this is one way they won't be like DUST TACTICS!

Hopefully the rules help 'save' this, because right now, the miniatures are a letdown, especially after the progress made, and shown, in the Kings of War line...

I don't call cathorse progress. They still batting about .500 for sculpts.

 Alpharius wrote:


Hopefully the rules help 'save' this, because right now, the miniatures are a letdown, especially after the progress made, and shown, in the Kings of War line...

Keep in mind we've only seen fan photos of painted figures. I'm sure once the Kickstarter stars we'll get better quality pics.

Hopefully Mantic will show us some professionally shot unpainted ones. I like seeing the clean ones rather than what someone else has already painted, but that's just my preference.

Also on the upside I would imagine there's going to be quite a few races showing up in this so the Enforcers can get tossed to the side if they don't suit your fancy. If they really do use this as a springboard for Warpath with all the money they will inevitably accumulate from the Kickstarter, we might see some KoW quality figures coming down the pipeline. Like that lion riding hero... gimme a space equivalent!

 Alpharius wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
I am just not impressed with the models at all. Click the previous page of this thread if you haven't seen them, they're all there.

So in that respect, this is one way they won't be like DUST TACTICS!

Hopefully the rules help 'save' this, because right now, the miniatures are a letdown, especially after the progress made, and shown, in the Kings of War line...

Shrug, I saw the miniatures yesterday and thought they were nice went online and saw the picture of the captain and thought it was horrible. There is alot to be said about seeing the miniature in person then a fan photo on a shaky phone.

I saw this at salute aswell. While I'm still on the fence as to weather I'll be supporting the KS. I have to agree with the above comment that the models looked much nicer in person.

Did the drone thing look less like something from Robot Wars? A box with a gun on doesn't do it for me.



Whoa, forgot Dave from Red Dwarf presented on that show!

 Black Nexus wrote:

Unless this is a case of "Mantic Photography [tuba fail sound]", then he's really out of proportion

FFS, you really do take any opportunity... this is a picture that someone has taken on their phone at salute and is NOT a mantic photograph!

Actually, I was just trying to be a little generous in saying that the model sucked. Obviously a cell phone isn't the best camera, but we've seen the model from the front, from above, from the back, from front and above, etc. There isn't a picture where it doesn't look bad.

At least the cell phone photographer realized it might be a good idea to take photos from different angles instead of multiple photos from the same angle. (Any opportunity, you said.)

At least he's the only model that really looks bad to me. And all it would take to fix him is a head swap, really.

Really, apart from the Captain the proportions seem fine. They are ballooned out for the Plague, but I think that was purposeful; Now they look more like various flavors of 40K chaos demons and CSM, rather than just sickly space zombies. Frankly, if they'd gone with the "KoW Zombie Kit + Corp Marine" style of kits they released in that big 80-model deal a while back, I suspect there would have been a lot of complaining about lack of originality with space zombies AND it would have been less marketable to 40K people (Who, remember, just got the new CSM codex a few months back and would probably welcome more models for their new CSM army more than they would some random generic space zombies)

However, the "all unique sculpts" bit makes me a bit wary. It'll be all fine and good imo if that just means unique sculpts but with swappable not sculpted-on arms/lower torso+legs/head, but the last thing I want is a bunch of identical guys of any sort all in the same pose copy-pasted by the number of sets I might buy.

Think all of the sculpts look like they have been turned up to '11' if you get what I mean. I could quite easily imagine them with a GW tag on them, and someone could easily have fooled me by doing so. Is that a good or a bad thing? Well, it's not for me personally (and I much prefer a more understated, realistic route for design aesthetic), but GW seem to have gone full-throttle down this route as well so perhaps it is what sells?

But, positives from this
- the terrain, this one is bound to be the most important aspect for many, regardless of what you think about everything else.
- the game itself. Jake Thornton is a fine games designer, and his games for Mantic so far have been 3 out of 3 (with Dreadball in particular a real cracker). If this can capture the campaign/personalisation components of Necromunda, with a smoother game mechanic, this has the potential to be massive.
- more space dwarves!

 Taarnak wrote:
Hate, hate, hate the Enforcer Captain and sniper. Capes? Really?

yeah, what the feth is Mantic thinking giving a sniper model a camouflage cloak? what a buncha retards

 judgedoug wrote:

 Taarnak wrote:
Hate, hate, hate the Enforcer Captain and sniper. Capes? Really?

yeah, what the feth is Mantic thinking giving a sniper model a camouflage cloak? what a buncha retards

Honestly, I just dislike the fact that the rest of the enforcer is the color scheme for the cloak is forest green while the rest is the grey/black/white they've been doing for the other Enforcers.

If they had done a grey, black, or white (Black would be best imo) cape instead, that would have matched better and looked a lot less forced. Alternatively, they could have done one of the following color schemes with a matching cloak (By Matt Gilbert over on the Mantic forums), or #2 or #4 with the same green cloak, and it would have looked waaaay nicer.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
Honestly, posts like Earth Dragon's that are filled with telling people what and how they should pledge just make me want to screw with campaigns by dropping five thousand fake-dollars in and out. Purely out of spite. So please don't tell others how they should pledge. mmmkay?

Because when you're angry at Earth Dragon, the sensible thing to do is screw up some hapless entrepeneurs? Enviable logic, my good man.

I didn't actually do that, you realise?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 scarletsquig wrote:
quite a lot of people simply sign up for the 48 hour warning and never pledge on any KS until that point because they don't have time to be looking at all the stretch goals or micromanaging their pledge.

I'm pretty much at this point myself with KS. If I get an Early Bird - then great! If not. I'll sign up for the 48-hour warning and see if I still care when we get to it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Earth Dragon wrote:

Sure. It's the same concept of "15 days free, but gives us your credit card". You are banking on a portion not paying attention and getting to charge them. Or "Send it back in 30 days for a full refund." Very common tactic which takes advantage of our inherent laziness.

You're absolutely correct on this point. Charge-now is one of the (several) reasons I no longer give IGG campaigns a second look anymore.

 judgedoug wrote:

 Taarnak wrote:
Hate, hate, hate the Enforcer Captain and sniper. Capes? Really?

yeah, what the feth is Mantic thinking giving a sniper model a camouflage cloak? what a buncha retards

The sniper is wearing high tech armor that could be, you know, camouflaged. But hey, what was I thinking, right?

The Enforcers are not a force that has been tied to the WW2 in space aesthetic previously. Why start now?

~Eric

Everyone please dial back the Snark in this thread by a lot, OK?

Thanks!

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Keep in mind we've only seen fan photos of painted figures. I'm sure once the Kickstarter stars we'll get better quality pics.

These aren't cell phone pictures taken of a White Dwarf in the middle of an earthquake, these are photos taken that show off every detail. And high quality pictures won't make that guy's arms stop coming out of the sides of his head.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Keep in mind we've only seen fan photos of painted figures. I'm sure once the Kickstarter stars we'll get better quality pics.

These aren't cell phone pictures taken of a White Dwarf in the middle of an earthquake, these are photos taken that show off every detail. And high quality pictures won't make that guy's arms stop coming out of the sides of his head.

This, essentially. These pics are pretty damn good for fan photos and I'm not sure why people seem to have this idea that waiting for "better pics" will somehow fix pretty obvious flaws in design. Happens in all the White Dwarf leak threads, too...you're not allowed to judge what appears to be an ugly design without being told to wait for HD pics. When HD pics come out and it's still ugly, you then have to wait until you've already bought the expensive model, assembled and painted it before you can make your final, final judgment. And then they'll just dismiss your opinion because you're a "hater" anyway.

Or maybe the idea is that it just looks like his arms are coming out the side of his head because of the angle of the photo. I mean it's all about perspective, right?

Anyway, other than that guy I thought the models looked alright. I really like the big mutant, though, that's a cool model.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Keep in mind we've only seen fan photos of painted figures. I'm sure once the Kickstarter stars we'll get better quality pics.

These aren't cell phone pictures taken of a White Dwarf in the middle of an earthquake, these are photos taken that show off every detail. And high quality pictures won't make that guy's arms stop coming out of the sides of his head.

Agree. Those photos in this thread are pretty dang good. I am tired of being told 'they look better in real life' when they never do. No other mini manufacturer gets a 'pass' like that.

Looks bad in photos = looks bad in real life = A bad model

nkelsch wrote:
No other mini manufacturer gets a 'pass' like that.

Are you kidding? I hear people saying that about GW all the time here.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

nkelsch wrote:
No other mini manufacturer gets a 'pass' like that.

Are you kidding? I hear people saying that about GW all the time here.

They shouldn't. Bad sculpts are bad sculpts whoever does them.

I'm pretty sure the Enforcer captain does suffer a little from perspective. The one Mantic currently sell doesn't seem too too bad, I mean, squint and you can imagine that he has shoulders...



That being said I prefer the current captain to the KS one, the cape, static pose and exposed head just aren't doing it for me,

The Enforcer Captain definitely isn't as good as Mantic's other enforcer captain, which looks pretty damned amazing, and doesn't have the weird thing going on with the shoulders.
:
Rest of the Enforcers look pretty good though, especially the sniper.

Beat you to it mate!

That model looks nothing like the hunched Rogue Trader-era Terminator Captain that the board game appears to have.

 scarletsquig wrote:
The Enforcer Captain definitely isn't as good as Mantic's other enforcer captain, which looks pretty damned amazing, and doesn't have the weird thing going on with the shoulders.
:
Rest of the Enforcers look pretty good though, especially the sniper.

Yeah. I'd prefer people call out which models ACtUALLY look bad not just make a blanket statement. There really is nothing wrong with the rest o the models past the captain. So some numbskull PAINTED the sniper oddly. I don't see anything wrong with the sculpt.

So Mantic, please give us a new Captain. The rest looks fine.

If they even just give us the current Captain in restic as an extra option I'd be happy enough, really the Deadzone Captain is the only miniature I could do without the rest are fine for me.

nkelsch wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Keep in mind we've only seen fan photos of painted figures. I'm sure once the Kickstarter stars we'll get better quality pics.

These aren't cell phone pictures taken of a White Dwarf in the middle of an earthquake, these are photos taken that show off every detail. And high quality pictures won't make that guy's arms stop coming out of the sides of his head.

Agree. Those photos in this thread are pretty dang good. I am tired of being told 'they look better in real life' when they never do. No other mini manufacturer gets a 'pass' like that.

Looks bad in photos = looks bad in real life = A bad model

Ehh, I'd argue the Mantic Elves are a strong excpetion to that imo. I was part of the crowd that hated the sculpts, but now that I have a pair of regiments sitting at home, you can see they are actually decent models.

Enforcer captain still looks like he just got told that his puppy was run over though

 Taarnak wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

 Taarnak wrote:
Hate, hate, hate the Enforcer Captain and sniper. Capes? Really?

yeah, what the feth is Mantic thinking giving a sniper model a camouflage cloak? what a buncha retards

The sniper is wearing high tech armor that could be, you know, camouflaged. But hey, what was I thinking, right?

The Enforcers are not a force that has been tied to the WW2 in space aesthetic previously. Why start now?

~Eric

Or maybe the sniper is wearing a high-tech chameleoline active-camouflage cloak? When did camo for snipers become tied to WW2 only? Modern day snipers also wear camouflage ghillie suits and such.

I like it. It's a great sculpt. I'm going to buy many of them and throw them at Malkovich as I drive by him.

nkelsch wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Keep in mind we've only seen fan photos of painted figures. I'm sure once the Kickstarter stars we'll get better quality pics.

These aren't cell phone pictures taken of a White Dwarf in the middle of an earthquake, these are photos taken that show off every detail. And high quality pictures won't make that guy's arms stop coming out of the sides of his head.

Agree. Those photos in this thread are pretty dang good. I am tired of being told 'they look better in real life' when they never do. No other mini manufacturer gets a 'pass' like that.

Looks bad in photos = looks bad in real life = A bad model

I have to agree with this... I've seen a LOT of Mantic models defended as "They look better from a different angle / in-person / under UV lighting". The sculpts being shown are subpar, imo, and should be stated as such.

I've really liked a Few things from Mantic. I've pledged for the Nameless team for Dreadball later this year... intentionally hoping they'd get their sculpting/casting/etc improved by then. From the looks of these preview models, they haven't imo, and people shouldn't try to talk themselves (or others) into thinking otherwise when these are definitely lacking in many respects.

I'll be backing the KS just for the terrain. I'm hoping there is a terrain only option. If not, I won't be that fussed but I'm not that impressed with the sculpts. The plague look ok, maybe could be better with head swaps but not a fan of the Corporation.

It's weird, the stuff they have been showing for KOW is a massive improvement over their earlier ranges (the ogres, the humans, the lion) but this seems like "old" Mantic sculpting.

Love the terrain though.

 judgedoug wrote:

Or maybe the sniper is wearing a high-tech chameleoline active-camouflage cloak? When did camo for snipers become tied to WW2 only? Modern day snipers also wear camouflage ghillie suits and such.

I like it. It's a great sculpt. I'm going to buy many of them and throw them at Malkovich as I drive by him.

If it were a ghillie suit I might have given it a pass. Its not. Its an hooded cloak. Even a ghillie suit wouldn't really fit the urban setting they seem to be putting the game in.

The hooded sniper has become a trope that originated because of Russian Partisan snipers in WW2, IIRC.

If it were some form of active camouflage, it would make more sense to build that tech directly into the armor, wouldn't it?

It really doesn't fit the previous aesthetic Mantic set up for Enforcers. The cape on the Captain is hilariously out of place.

Also, I tend to agree that the new Captain sculpt is odd aside from the cape. I have the original and it is an awesome mini.

~Eric

I agree, I want historically accurate mutant space zombies.

 scarletsquig wrote:
I agree, I want historically accurate mutant space zombies.

Right, that is totally what I said.

The capes don't fit the established aesthetic. Period.

~Eric

I don't know, it may simply be the paint job for most of the models. I'm not a huge fan of the pictures I've seen, either from the KS preview shots or from Mantic themselves. The picture posted a little while ago shows some nice looking Enforcers though. Captain Ear-Hands may very well be out of proportion (but I'm not sure that it's all that crazy for a game piece... might not fly for a show piece but, eh, not everything is going to be) but I think that a better paint job would make the entire range look better. I feel that way about a lot of GW's models as well. Hard-edging everything makes baby Jesus cry.

Damm, I'd totally forgotten about that Enforcer commander.

Can we just have him instead?

The more I look at the older model the more I want a bigger and beefier mecha version to slug it out with space zombie Onslaught. That would make for good times.

 Cyporiean wrote:

Minis are Remy sculpts, material is the same as Dreadball.
Speaking of which, they know what caused the horrible mold line issues on some of the stuff from Dreadball and have fixed it. If you have any Dreadball figs you aren't happy with because of that Manticwill replace them.

Thanks for the heads-up on that. I might now open the plastic baggies and QA my figures.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 scarletsquig wrote:

- Game will be played using a 3" grid on a total surface of 2'x2'. No tape measures. SW boards will work, but they'd have to have crosshair markers painted on to indicate the corners of the 3x3 tiles. Or terrain elements used to mark out the 3" space.
More of a Dust Tactics sort of game

How big are the grids in Dust TicTacs? It would be good if they were the same or close enough, simply to give some additional variety to our floorplan options.

nkelsch wrote:
Wow, those models are simply not good.
Apparently getting promoted in the Corp requires them to brake your arms, extend your torso and cut your legs in half. I hope that armor is good as it doesn't look functional.
And 'the plague' is apparently a result of 'steroids' and 'a good workout jam'.
Live by the 'realistic proportions', die by the 'realistic proportions'.

I'll be honest. I generally prefer heroic proportions to "truescale", so you know, I much prefer my space marines to my Mantic Corporation guys. I don't mind SM Terminators or their (inhuman) proportions, so my main issue with that captain isn't the cape or the terminator armour, but the puny little t-rex arms that he has. Maybe with a pair of SM Lightning Claws grafted on instead he'll look a bit better?


On the others - camo cloak doesn't bother me. I see it as visual shorthand for a model being camoflagued. Besides, 40k had cameleoline cloaks on the very-much-not WW2-ish original Space Marines as far back as the Rogue Trader book. Besides, you gotta hide that Iron Man armour somehow!

The regular mutants have awful proportions. More of that tiny-leg-big-torso-and-arms thing that Mantic's trolls and Ogres seem to be afflicted by. The big spiky looks like a better version of WarZone V1's Stahler Carcass Armour


Scenery looks nice, too!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just a thing to add - I agree with the posters who have suggested that they should retool the existing Enforcer Captain into Restic as part of this. Squig - can you mention this to them perhaps so the idea is at least in their radar. It'd be a piss-easy Stretch Goal or add-on, and I think would be well-received.

They could probably do the same with the Metal Ork and Forgefather characters models, actually.

I definitely keep going back and forth from "TAKE MY MONEY ALREADY", to "I'd like to see more after hearing/seeing that."

Things I like so far:

Necromunda/Mordhiem style campaign play

D8 system vice D6 (more stat options on rolls. Prefer 10s and 12s the most though)

Scenery is awesome and can be used in Necromunda and other skirmish games

Things I don't like:

The Commander model (yep. driving this one home)

The 2' x 2' playing field. Even 2' x 4' or 3' x 3' would be more acceptable, but really hope there are rules to put four - six - eight - nine boards together for different scenarios. I don't want every confrontation to be an "OK Corral" type shoot out.

No range on weapons. See above.

Lack of a Teraton and Veer-myn faction. That's right. One of the greatest WHFB rivalries hits space......I'd be game. (Had to. Please make this a possibility)

I'm hoping there's rules for using generic survivor 'gangs' in the game. Would be a nice way to bring in Necromunda players (and countless other survivor or sci-fi models).

I'm also hoping that they make squads of nameless, judwan, robots and terratons for this. Mantic could really solidify their universe as non-GW by expanding on those more sci-fi races.

 Taarnak wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

Or maybe the sniper is wearing a high-tech chameleoline active-camouflage cloak? When did camo for snipers become tied to WW2 only? Modern day snipers also wear camouflage ghillie suits and such.

I like it. It's a great sculpt. I'm going to buy many of them and throw them at Malkovich as I drive by him.

If it were a ghillie suit I might have given it a pass. Its not. Its an hooded cloak. Even a ghillie suit wouldn't really fit the urban setting they seem to be putting the game in.

The hooded sniper has become a trope that originated because of Russian Partisan snipers in WW2, IIRC.

If it were some form of active camouflage, it would make more sense to build that tech directly into the armor, wouldn't it?

It really doesn't fit the previous aesthetic Mantic set up for Enforcers. The cape on the Captain is hilariously out of place.

Also, I tend to agree that the new Captain sculpt is odd aside from the cape. I have the original and it is an awesome mini.

~Eric

Unless the active camo is a mesh. Then it makes far more sense to have a cloak of it on top of your powered armor, instead of no armor and a mesh jumpsuit. But we could argue what makes sense in a sci FI setting all day long. You just don't like the sniper mini for whatever reason.

The Captain is stupid. The sniper is rockin' like Dokken.

decker_cky wrote:
I'm hoping there's rules for using generic survivor 'gangs' in the game. Would be a nice way to bring in Necromunda players (and countless other survivor or sci-fi models).

I'm also hoping that they make squads of nameless, judwan, robots and terratons for this. Mantic could really solidify their universe as non-GW by expanding on those more sci-fi races.

I agree on more races AS LONG AS it matches with their lore and background. One thing I can't stand about some Necro players is them trying to make rules for every blasted 40k race in Necromunda. Almost every codex race doesn't fit in the environment, at least not unless they have special equipment rules and how they interacted with the gangs, which really takes away from the game if most players aren't playing proper gangs.

BUT this is also a "looting" opportunity. Any tech trader groups, scavenger groups, and just plain the drudges of inter-galactic society are going to show up to try to "get theirs". So it seems much more flexible on who would come be around.

Earth Dragon wrote:

decker_cky wrote:
I'm hoping there's rules for using generic survivor 'gangs' in the game. Would be a nice way to bring in Necromunda players (and countless other survivor or sci-fi models).

I'm also hoping that they make squads of nameless, judwan, robots and terratons for this. Mantic could really solidify their universe as non-GW by expanding on those more sci-fi races.

I agree on more races AS LONG AS it matches with their lore and background. One thing I can't stand about some Necro players is them trying to make rules for every blasted 40k race in Necromunda. Almost every codex race doesn't fit in the environment, at least not unless they have special equipment rules and how they interacted with the gangs, which really takes away from the game if most players aren't playing proper gangs.

BUT this is also a "looting" opportunity. Any tech trader groups, scavenger groups, and just plain the drudges of inter-galactic society are going to show up to try to "get theirs". So it seems much more flexible on who would come be around.

Yeah...the scavenging backstory, and lack of a link to a particular planet (I believe) makes for an easy association to pretty much any race that has space faring capability. Necromunda and Mordheim both suffered from closed stories that limited the races that made sense - that shouldn't be at issue here.

I think the backstory indicates that it would be a Corporation World if I'm not mistaken, so most corporation affiliated races should show up. Really the only guys that wouldn't make sense are races who couldn't care less about scavenging a Corporation planet. So, like you said, this should encompass the bulk, and maybe even create some "setting specific" factions. Not sure if these plague guys are gonna be a Warpath wide race.

all of the races would probably end up being in this, as it said that anyone interested in pillaging, or mining would show up and take as much as they could. so i expect all races to have a skirmishing force. (once the funding gets high enough) I'm curious to see how large these forces are going to be. i'd love for them to be 25-35 man forces, or at least have an option to upgrade all of the forces to that size.

Average game size will be 5-10 for the Enforcers with other factions like the plague being more numerous at 10-30 or so.

So, it depends on the faction, the more elite ones like Enforcers and Forgefathers will be smaller. I guess Enforcers are at the top end, almost like Spyrers in Necromunda in terms of power level.

Again, that almost hurts it though. 40 guys crammed on a 2 sq ft board.....a bit much for me. I'd really like something that suggests the board would be bigger at that point so some tactical manuvering would be involved.

 judgedoug wrote:

Unless the active camo is a mesh. Then it makes far more sense to have a cloak of it on top of your powered armor, instead of no armor and a mesh jumpsuit. But we could argue what makes sense in a sci FI setting all day long. You just don't like the sniper mini for whatever reason.

I dislike it for purely aesthetic reasons. I feel like they are starting to try to shoehorn Space Marines into the Enforcers, and I don't want that to happen.

The mini is well sculpted, no issue there.

 judgedoug wrote:

The Captain is stupid. The sniper is rockin' like Dokken.

That actually made me laugh out loud. Haven't heard that name for an age. Now Imma have to go digging for some terrible 80s hair music. Thanks JD...

~Eric

I have to agree with most of the people hear about the captain, needs work, and as for the sniper i don't have that large of a problem with him but i would like him to have a unique armor instead of a cape. =/ just my 2 cents.

Hrm, I like the big plague guy, who I'll simply call Nemesis for lack of better term at the moment. The crouched ghoul thing looks okay, but the grunts have some terrible proportions. Granted, they're supposed to look hideously mutated, but they look like Mantic ogres who had an unfortunate accident with green stuff.

The Enforcer captain will make a great Forgefather with a headswap. Cloak guy is cool too.

Not feeling the Dust Tactics board thing, especially on a 2 x 2 where some sides are rocking up to 30 figures on what presumably will be a dense terrain board. Sounds a bit clustered.

Good to hear the restic tooling has been changed, as my Dreadball figures looked like crap.

The initial announcement had me quite hyped, alas subsequent details have me steered me towards the wait and see camp.

I'm kind of excited, simply because I know the guy that drew and colored, "Nemesis" as you called it

I hope the Plague isn't just infected humans. I hope we see a bit more variety of infected races. If "Nemesis" there is what we get when humans get infected, I wonder what happens if the Plague infects Forge Fathers or Teratons?

Thick and chunky spiky beard monsters? Giant pointy Godzilla- like kaiju monsters?

Who knows what kinds of fun monstrosities you could come up with if the Z'zor got the plague... oh the possibilities.

Don't let me down Mantic!

I want an infected Nameless!! How cool would that be.

And don't be silly highlord. Z'zor will be immune to the plague (that's right. I'm already making crazy guesses)

I... had totally forgotten about the nameless.

How...? But...? They already...?

I don't know what they would do with those guys. I would assume it would be CRAZY.

I say nobody is immune so that way they have an excuse to come up with all kinds of bizarre models.

That'd be perfect for me. It's all fun and games lootin' and shootin' until crazy giant monsters knock the building next door over and proceed to smash through anything else that moves.

Or maybe infected Nameless look perfectly human...

...when they want to. Or they can mutate into a Nemesis-with-tentacles monstrous beastie instead

Earth Dragon wrote:

No range on weapons.

This is actually a selling point for me. If the 2'x2' board is even vaguely in scale with the minis, there should be no weapon (except flame throwers) that can't fire all the way across the board.

Seriously, I think people are making mountains out of mole hills on the board size. I'm certain the game won't break if you play on a larger board.

If your worried about weapon range on a larger board two things.
1) You could simply limit weapons to 24 inch range on a larger board.
2.) If your playing on a larger board and you have line of sight on a target at greater than 24 inches, you're probably not using enough terrain.

 adamsouza wrote:
Seriously, I think people are making mountains out of mole hills on the board size. I'm certain the game won't break if you play on a larger board.

Ronnie mentioned in the panel that they knew people would want to get multiple sets for larger games, and were making sure it was playable.

Zond wrote:

Good to hear the restic tooling has been changed, as my Dreadball figures looked like crap.

On a related note, I'd much rather have my Kings of War stuff in hand so I could decide for myself the quality of their current Restic. If I was confident from personal experience that the stuff is better than the DreadBall stuff, I'd be more likely to go big on this. Unfortunately this seems unlikely to happen in the same timeframe...

After all, there seems to regularly be a lot of "it's better in person" around Mantic's figures, and has for some time now...

Does anyone have any pictures of how crappy the restic stuff is supposed to be?

I've never seen any first hand. Curious to see just how bad it is.

My only Mantic experiences have been with (what I'm assuming to be are) their plastic sprues of dead stuff and I was pretty impressed.

Of course those were the first heroic scale figures I've built since the days of plastic needle- nosed space marines so I don't have a lot of knowledge on current figures/ materials.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Does anyone have any pictures of how crappy the restic stuff is supposed to be?

I've never seen any first hand. Curious to see just how bad it is.

My only Mantic experiences have been with (what I'm assuming to be are) their plastic sprues of dead stuff and I was pretty impressed.

Of course those were the first heroic scale figures I've built since the days of plastic needle- nosed space marines so I don't have a lot of knowledge on current figures/ materials.

My firsthand experience with Restic:

30 Orc Gore Riders - a couple slightly bendy spears and bent standards
10 Wraiths - no problems
20 Revenant Knights - a couple slightly bendy lances
Dreadball Set - no problems

I have had no mold line problems on any of my restic stuff, and only longish bits (spears, lances, standards) have been bendy. Hit 'em with hot water to bend 'em back. The level of detail has been pretty excellent. I love the gore riders; some of my fav cavalry models.

I bought some Cadians and Catachan troops after I bought dreadball and had nastier lines on the GW models.

And to the gentleman suggesting I write my own rules for the game to accommodate for a greater board size, if I planned on doing that, I'd just play a different game entirely.

At this point, I do feel I'll just grab the terrain (can never have enough) the models I like, and leave the rest.

Earth Dragon wrote:

And to the gentleman suggesting I write my own rules for the game to accommodate for a greater board size, if I planned on doing that, I'd just play a different game entirely.

It was more of a suggestion that you were over reacting

Looking forward to seeing if there's a terrain only pledge level.

Are all of the races likely to get releases for this?

Looking forward to seeing if any new Forge Father stuff comes along!

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
It's all fun and games lootin' and shootin' until crazy giant monsters knock the building next door over and proceed to smash through anything else that moves.

Gears of War. Berzerker. Hammer of Dawn. And don't forget to "REVIVE ME!" Yeah, I'm totally going to throw the GOW boardgame figures into this. Hmm. That commander could really use a Lancer.

 Barzam wrote:

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
It's all fun and games lootin' and shootin' until crazy giant monsters knock the building next door over and proceed to smash through anything else that moves.

Gears of War. Berzerker. Hammer of Dawn. And don't forget to "REVIVE ME!" Yeah, I'm totally going to throw the GOW boardgame figures into this. Hmm. That commander could really use a Lancer.

Fair enough. I'll see your Gears of War and raise you one set of Doom and the expansion for it. If the rules are flexible enough I can see quite a lot of figures making guest appearances.

it'll be like my childhood games of Space Hulk all over again. Once the Genestealer expansion came out and had rules for all kinds of weapons and whatnot practically every figure we owned at the time found its way to the board as a part of the Genestealer cults.

Locust would be fun to fight though.

I'm wondering if this is successful as a board game/ tactical game if we'll end up seeing Dwarf King's Hold following as a Kickstarter. I know Mantic mentioned that they've sold through their copies and would be revisiting the game in the future. Hmm....

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Does anyone have any pictures of how crappy the restic stuff is supposed to be?

I've never seen any first hand. Curious to see just how bad it is.

My only Mantic experiences have been with (what I'm assuming to be are) their plastic sprues of dead stuff and I was pretty impressed.

Of course those were the first heroic scale figures I've built since the days of plastic needle- nosed space marines so I don't have a lot of knowledge on current figures/ materials.

From the abyssal halfbreeds, there was some mold lines (nothing excessive), but it is a little more work to remove them than it is from traditional materials.

So I'll be honest, none of the minis really grab me. However, my club and I have all the sci-fi minis we'll ever need so I'm still pretty stoked about rules and terrain.

I'm a little behind the curve, so can anyone let me know what Mantic has said about rules (will all force lists be included) and play mechanics?

EDIT

Found this on the Mantic Forum (I'm sure it's probably somewhere in this thread also) from a Mantic Admin.

The game is played on an 8x8 grid. You don't have the use the terrain in the game if you don't want but if you'd need to replace it with something of the same size (to fill 3" square blocks).
The mat that comes in the game will be double sided with a tutorial side and a normal game side. The buildings on display were resin mock-ups and not the final versions. You also probably would not make the buildings that big in the game. That ground/base they are on is obviously not the game mat either, just a display board

Grid huh?... Not really interested in another board game so it looks like I'm not interested in the rules either.

Still, I'll be looking to see what the scenery costs as it does look pretty good, but "not make buildings that big" suggests to me that it would be quite expensive to do so. Also, if any FF minis get made in stretch goals/add-ons I might pick a few up.

Yeah, at this point Eilif, Mantic trying to claim that gamers will say "this is just like Necromunda" was probably more wishful thinking. This is turning out to be a board game, not a full fledged miniatures game.

Earth Dragon wrote:
Yeah, at this point Eilif, Mantic trying to claim that gamers will say "this is just like Necromunda" was probably more wishful thinking. This is turning out to be a board game, not a full fledged miniatures game.

Mantic never said it was like Necromunda, I said that people would say this is necromunda like people said Dreadball was Blood Bowl.

Dreadball isn't Blood Bowl, this isn't Neceomunda. It's a Miniatures Boardgame in the Warpath universe.

40 miniatures in a grid based Boardgame table that is 2'x2' isn't that bad, take a look at Zombicide..

 Cyporiean wrote:

Earth Dragon wrote:
Yeah, at this point Eilif, Mantic trying to claim that gamers will say "this is just like Necromunda" was probably more wishful thinking. This is turning out to be a board game, not a full fledged miniatures game.

Mantic never said it was like Necromunda, I said that people would say this is necromunda like people said Dreadball was Blood Bowl.

Dreadball isn't Blood Bowl, this isn't Neceomunda. It's a Miniatures Boardgame in the Warpath universe.

40 miniatures in a grid based Boardgame table that is 2'x2' isn't that bad, take a look at Zombicide..

I think there's alot more similarities between BB and DB than Necro and and Deadzone, if only related to their board/tabletop status. Still, that's moot now that it's clear that DZone is a board game.

I'm sure it will be a fun boardgame, and probably a good seller for Mantic. It's just that I have little interest in mini-based board games. I like tabletop wargaming.

I'm wondering if Mantic might do a Dust -> Dust Tactics type deal. Yeah you can play it like a board game, but you can also use the exact same models in wargaming variation.

Maybe that might be a stretch goal at some point? We know this will pull in a punch of money. They better have a lot of stretch goals planned. Might be an easy one for them to bang out.

I guess we'll all be finding out this Friday.

^ That already exists, the game is called Warpath, it's on its second edition (which is a massively improved and really excellent set of rules) and the full colour 80-page rulebook with all the rules, background and army lists can be downloaded for free here:

http://www.manticgames.com/Hobby/Gaming.html

Damn........This thing starts at 0230 on Friday for me. That's what happens you live on the opposite side of the planet from Mantic.

I thought Warpath was more big battle stuff, not close quarter skirmishes. Maybe Dead Zone will have a somewhat similar rule set that can scale up? After all, wasn't the point of Dead Zone to get people ready for the big Warpath campaign?

I actually received a copy of the rules a few months back from a family member and have subsequently forgotten where I put them.

Question for those that remember- how were the rules of Necromunda compared to 40k at the time? Similar? Vastly different?

We never got Necromunda in my house. We were a Space Hulk family.

Just got a new job with 50% higher salary then I do currently, so very, very excited I now might be able to toss a hundred bucks or so at this when it starts versus watching it sail past

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
I'm wondering if Mantic might do a Dust -> Dust Tactics type deal. Yeah you can play it like a board game, but you can also use the exact same models in wargaming variation.

Maybe that might be a stretch goal at some point? We know this will pull in a punch of money. They better have a lot of stretch goals planned. Might be an easy one for them to bang out.

I guess we'll all be finding out this Friday.

Dreadball has had something like that. They "just" (I honestly don't know how long ago) released Dreadball Kickoff, which doesn't come with the ref, the cards, the rosters, etc... and is just a board game. But can be expanded into regular Dreadball...

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Question for those that remember- how were the rules of Necromunda compared to 40k at the time? Similar? Vastly different?

They shared the core mechanics of 2nd edition 40k, but Necromunda went a bit deeper in terms of equipment - that's before injuries, skills, etc, came into play. The stat spread for a human in Necromunda mostly mirrored what you could get in the Imperial Guard at the time, IIRC.

 scarletsquig wrote:
^ That already exists, the game is called Warpath, it's on its second edition (which is a massively improved and really excellent set of rules) and the full colour 80-page rulebook with all the rules, background and army lists can be downloaded for free here:

http://www.manticgames.com/Hobby/Gaming.html

Yes and no. I think people are looking for something with the characteristics of Necromunda (individual, measured movement with multiple factions, xp, character growth and a campaign tree.

Coming from someone who used to play Battletech on a gridless tabletop, I don't see there being much of an obstacle playing this new game without the board.

The important thing will be if the advancement, and campaign, rules make it a worthy Necromunda successor.

 Azazelx wrote:

 scarletsquig wrote:
^ That already exists, the game is called Warpath, it's on its second edition (which is a massively improved and really excellent set of rules) and the full colour 80-page rulebook with all the rules, background and army lists can be downloaded for free here:

http://www.manticgames.com/Hobby/Gaming.html

Yes and no. I think people are looking for something with the characteristics of Necromunda (individual, measured movement with multiple factions, xp, character growth and a campaign tree.

Humbly submitted for your perusal

 adamsouza wrote:
Coming from someone who used to play Battletech on a gridless tabletop, I don't see there being much of an obstacle playing this new game without the board.

The important thing will be if the advancement, and campaign, rules make it a worthy Necromunda successor.

The hang up here is simply players having to make up their own rules for movement and such. I'd prefer it be apart of the core game already

adamsouza wrote:Coming from someone who used to play Battletech on a gridless tabletop, I don't see there being much of an obstacle playing this new game without the board.
The important thing will be if the advancement, and campaign, rules make it a worthy Necromunda successor.

This is a possibility I hadn't considered. There is fair chance that the rules for Deadzone will be detailed enough to translate to gridless play. Alot will depend on the rules. Technically anything can be moved from Gridless to Gridded and visa-versa, but if there's too much houseruling required, then alot of folks just won't bother. BT is an example where almost nothing has to change, but not all rulesets are so friendly.

Dysartes wrote:

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Question for those that remember- how were the rules of Necromunda compared to 40k at the time? Similar? Vastly different?

They shared the core mechanics of 2nd edition 40k, but Necromunda went a bit deeper in terms of equipment - that's before injuries, skills, etc, came into play. The stat spread for a human in Necromunda mostly mirrored what you could get in the Imperial Guard at the time, IIRC.

That's exactly it, and IIRC, there was an number by which you could multiply the points cost of almost anything in 2nd edition 40k, and come up with a value for Necromunda. Of course most of those kind of imports would drastically change the game balance, but with identical statlines and range bands, 2nd Edition still has alot to offer the Necromunda player.

If you ask for alternate gridless rules during the Ks, there's a good chance that it will happen - Loka had a ton of new optional rules added over the course of the KS.

Well, if they ditch igougo, Mantic will have made progress.

I think the coolest bits about Necromunda were the campaign system and sense of progression - of 'levelling' your gangers (and the way that it tapped into the 'nurturing' aspect of the human psyche, that some MMOs have also carried so well) and creating a narrative of sorts as you go along. That, and less of a level of abstraction (being able to hide, being wounded rather than just insta-removed etc.) than the 40k game helped you feel far more of a connection with what was taking place on the tabletop.

People can say that they just like a simple 24", roll to go first blastathon won by whoever has something left on the board, but I think it's telling that Necromunda (and really by extension 2nd edition) has reached an almost religion-like reverence even after all of these years. You could probably say the same about Mordheim for that matter.

So, I think if Deadzone can tap into an element of those narrative and nurturing-like components of game design, it has the potential to be massively successful.

 Pacific wrote:
I think the coolest bits about Necromunda were the campaign system and sense of progression - of 'levelling' your gangers (and the way that it tapped into the 'nurturing' aspect of the human psyche, that some MMOs have also carried so well) and creating a narrative of sorts as you go along. That, and less of a level of abstraction (being able to hide, being wounded rather than just insta-removed etc.) than the 40k game helped you feel far more of a connection with what was taking place on the tabletop.

People can say that they just like a simple 24", roll to go first blastathon won by whoever has something left on the board, but I think it's telling that Necromunda (and really by extension 2nd edition) has reached an almost religion-like reverence even after all of these years. You could probably say the same about Mordheim for that matter.

So, I think if Deadzone can tap into an element of those narrative and nurturing-like components of game design, it has the potential to be massively successful.

I'm with you there - I would LOVE for 40K to get rid of the "roll to go first blastathon won by whoever has something left on the board" mechanic...

We'll have to make sure that we all ask for 'gridless' rules in the Kickstarter comments section once this thing goes live...

Who knows? Maybe the gridded rules will work really well. Abstacted movement and positioning has worked rather well in many games (the idea that your squad/unit is in an area, or cloud, simplifies tactical movement and reduces line of sight problems) so perhaps there's a bunch of really awesome mechanics that will make it really fun and tactically rewarding to play. Dreadball exceeded my expectations... let's see what happens in a few days and if they release rules and such.

Zond wrote:
Well, if they ditch igougo, Mantic will have made progress.

They already have in the main Warpath rules, alternate activation is how that plays.

 scarletsquig wrote:

They already have in the main Warpath rules, alternate activation is how that plays.

Oh good. After the Kings of War rules I was disappointed, but more fool me for kickstarting without doing my due research. I think I'm going to definitely need to see all the sculpts this time as well.

^ The rules are all free to download on the Mantic site:

http://www.manticgames.com/Hobby/Gaming.html

Highly recommend having a read through Warpath 2.0, it's an excellent set of rules that went through multiple rounds of public (and internet-based) playtesting.

That goes for anyone interested in this KS too, since all the models you get for deadzone will be directly usable in Warpath, too.

And of course, the terrain will be useful for 40k, Infinity or pretty much any sci-fi game. I've mentioned that a lot of people are interested in a terrain-only pledge, but if there isn't one on-launch, the best thing to do would be to send Mantic a message using the "Ask a question" button on kickstarter stating that you'll pledge if they have a terrain-only pledge level, how much if it you'd be looking to buy etc.

This being the internet, there is no way that this post won't be interpreted as snarky or confrontational, so I will start by saying that I intend neither.

That said, why are so many posters hoping that this game will be so similar to Necromunda? It' s not like Necromunda is no longer playable. The rules are still available for free online, and there are loads of companies that make minis that would work as gangers. I don't see any reason for Mantic to reinvent that particular wheel.

I like Thornton's work, and I would love a 3-D (as opposed to tile-based) skirmish game that will fit on the dinner table and then back in a box when it's finished. If only I hand't spent so much on Myth...

 JoshInJapan wrote:

That said, why are so many posters hoping that this game will be so similar to Necromunda? It' s not like Necromunda is no longer playable. The rules are still available for free online, and there are loads of companies that make minis that would work as gangers. I don't see any reason for Mantic to reinvent that particular wheel.

For me personally, it's because I'm hoping for a more balanced, streamlined version of Necromunda. WHFB is playable, but imo KoW has made a far better game based on WHFB, which is exactly what I'm hoping for from Deadzone

 JoshInJapan wrote:
This being the internet, there is no way that this post won't be interpreted as snarky or confrontational, so I will start by saying that I intend neither.

That said, why are so many posters hoping that this game will be so similar to Necromunda? It' s not like Necromunda is no longer playable. The rules are still available for free online, and there are loads of companies that make minis that would work as gangers. I don't see any reason for Mantic to reinvent that particular wheel.

I like Thornton's work, and I would love a 3-D (as opposed to tile-based) skirmish game that will fit on the dinner table and then back in a box when it's finished. If only I hand't spent so much on Myth...

It's the core play of Necromunda many of us are looking for. Fresh backstory, units, weapons, dynamics, maybe even some rules, and a tweaked system to keep things fresh are very welcome. Of course we can play Necromunda. But I feel a lot of us feel Mantic is competent enough to make a great Necromunda alternative in a new environment, with all those things noted above, just like they made a great alternative to Blood Bowl via Dreadball.

Necromunda is also unsupported and no improvevments/adjustments are made outside of what players themselves choose to do, which are always controversial by and large, and always cater to the tastes of a few.

Out of Ultima came Everquest, and out of Everquest came WoW. Say what you want about the game (I myself don't play it) but Blizzard took proven concepts, improved upon them, and have made billions. It's not re-inventing the wheel. It's making a superior design. This isn't un-heard of.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I felt Pacific's comments really summed it up.

 darkPrince010 wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

 scarletsquig wrote:
^ That already exists, the game is called Warpath, it's on its second edition (which is a massively improved and really excellent set of rules) and the full colour 80-page rulebook with all the rules, background and army lists can be downloaded for free here:

http://www.manticgames.com/Hobby/Gaming.html

Yes and no. I think people are looking for something with the characteristics of Necromunda (individual, measured movement with multiple factions, xp, character growth and a campaign tree.

Humbly submitted for your perusal

Thank you for that. Just downloaded the files (and the Mordhaim/KoW ones as well). No idea when I'll get around to trying them out, as my hobby time is pretty much split between painting scenery, posting on Dakka and playing World of Warcraft lately..


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 scarletsquig wrote:
If you ask for alternate gridless rules during the Ks, there's a good chance that it will happen - Loka had a ton of new optional rules added over the course of the KS.

I guess it depends on how "core" the gridded rules are viewed as by Jake, Ronnie, et al. On the surface, without having seen anything, they would seem to be pretty central to concepts of movement, range, line of sight, cover...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JoshInJapan wrote:
This being the internet, there is no way that this post won't be interpreted as snarky or confrontational, so I will start by saying that I intend neither.

That said, why are so many posters hoping that this game will be so similar to Necromunda? It' s not like Necromunda is no longer playable. The rules are still available for free online, and there are loads of companies that make minis that would work as gangers. I don't see any reason for Mantic to reinvent that particular wheel.

I like Thornton's work, and I would love a 3-D (as opposed to tile-based) skirmish game that will fit on the dinner table and then back in a box when it's finished. If only I hand't spent so much on Myth...

Completely understand your point. I guess I'd say it's the same reason we can have and enjoy both Dreadball and Blood Bowl, or Kings of War and Warhammer Fantasy Battle, or Call of Duty and Battlefield, or Project Pandora and Space Hulk, the Justice League and the Avengers, D&D and WFRP, Star Wars and Star Trek, Blondes and Brunettes...

Also, what's Myth?

[quote=Azazelx 516236 5542835 ecb1a680d48e4c04b8966e08da7613ef.png

Completely understand your point. I guess I'd say it's the same reason we can have and enjoy both Dreadball and Blood Bowl, or Kings of War and Warhammer Fantasy Battle, or Call of Duty and Battlefield, or Project Pandora and Space Hulk, the Justice League and the Avengers, D&D and WFRP, Star Wars and Star Trek, Blondes and Brunettes...

Also, what's Myth?

 JoshInJapan wrote:
This being the internet, there is no way that this post won't be interpreted as snarky or confrontational, so I will start by saying that I intend neither.

That said, why are so many posters hoping that this game will be so similar to Necromunda? It' s not like Necromunda is no longer playable. The rules are still available for free online, and there are loads of companies that make minis that would work as gangers. I don't see any reason for Mantic to reinvent that particular wheel.

I like Thornton's work, and I would love a 3-D (as opposed to tile-based) skirmish game that will fit on the dinner table and then back in a box when it's finished. If only I hand't spent so much on Myth...

For me, personally, it is because, while fun, Necromunda is really, really (really, REEEEEEEALLY) kind of broken. I mean, that is kind of expected. That many random tables and umpteen abilities sharing the same design space is likely to cause a wide balance gap between players with high degrees of system mastery and those without. But for people who have played Necromunda for a while it starts feeling like a bit of a trap. Whenever a new player asks tactical questions online they are bombarded with the holy writ of what thou shall and shall not do in Necromunda. Because the break points are so well understood now that many of us have kind of played it all out. From that point there is only house rules.

A modern take on the team/gang management skirmish game with an eye toward mitigating the balance issues a lot of other ones have fallen in to would be great. It was kind of what I was hoping for out of Heavy Gear Arena, but that had its own issues.

So I am going to be sticking around to see if this does the small-skirmish pseudo-RPG thing well. I don't need a new Necromunda, but something in a similar gameplay style would be nice.

That said, I am starting to waiver in my resolve a bit right now as a bunch of other equally awesome things start springing up around me. But I remember how awesome the last few Mantic Kickstarters were and I am willing to give this one a look, especially since I actually have a few hundred to pump in to it.

 Ronin_eX wrote:

A modern take on the team/gang management skirmish game with an eye toward mitigating the balance issues a lot of other ones have fallen in to would be great. It was kind of what I was hoping for out of Heavy Gear Arena, but that had its own issues.

So I am going to be sticking around to see if this does the small-skirmish pseudo-RPG thing well. I don't need a new Necromunda, but something in a similar gameplay style would be nice.

This is why I'm looking forward to Deadzone, as I think a fan revision of Necromunda to balance it would result in something akin to the Coreheim revision of Mordheim, and really lose a great deal of flavor of the original source material.

 Breotan wrote:
As interesting as this is, I really wish they'd fullfill outstanding Kickstarter projects before starting new ones.

A company that has multiple projects is a red flag for me.

If a company has multiple projects, one cock-up in one project can throw off the timing in another. It doesn't matter if the projects are KickStarter, new clients, whatever. The additional projects a company undertakes bring in additional money and can share resources, but can also take away them and time from existing ones. For small companies, in the shipment phase of a KickStarter, it's possible for the entire company to help the shipping department pack boxes. Likewise, if one KickStarter is failing, it's tempting to take away funds from another one. I've also noticed that "big name" game companies will only have one KickStarter project, although it's usually a *big* one.

OTOH, If you want to see how Mantic is doing with its previous KS, the comments are freely available. I skimmed them, and I don't see the torches and pitchforks I've seen for other companies with multiple delayed projects.

Unlike your typical pre-order, it really is important that you research how well a company can complete its projects, depending on how much money you will be pledging. However, I attended a seminar with a venture capitalist and he even said that they never know all the information they need to know before investing in a company. Myself, had I used the criteria I use today with KickStarter, I would not have pledged for two projects that are still delayed.

Now, you'll excuse me while I throw money at those dungeon tiles.

Deleted to avoid de-railment.

 JoshInJapan wrote:

Myth:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1700755582/myth-0?ref=live

Hm. Looks like I missed it (and yeah, I now see the 8-page thread). Shame, it seems the sort of thing I might have been likely to back. There's just so many gaming KS these days that I glaze/skip over most of the new ones, so even worthy ones get ignored.

ced1106 wrote:
OTOH, If you want to see how Mantic is doing with its previous KS, the comments are freely available. I skimmed them, and I don't see the torches and pitchforks I've seen for other companies with multiple delayed projects.

Unlike your typical pre-order, it really is important that you research how well a company can complete its projects, depending on how much money you will be pledging. However, I attended a seminar with a venture capitalist and he even said that they never know all the information they need to know before investing in a company. Myself, had I used the criteria I use today with KickStarter, I would not have pledged for two projects that are still delayed.

Yes, and for the record, so people don't have to do their own research on Mantic:

- The first Kings of War KS shipment shipped on time.
- The second Kings of War KS shipment is on track to ship on time, everything is coming on the slow boat back from China. Unless it sinks (has happened before to Mantic!), it'll be fine.
- The first Dreadball KS shipment shipped on time.
- The second Dreadball KS shipment shipped on time (all going out of the door today!).
- The third Dreadball KS shipment is on track, all of the minis for it are currently in tooling.


In the case of both of those there are one or two models/units that have slipped to a later shipment, but nothing major.

As far as Kickstarters go, they have one of the best track records of any wargaming company, most of which never hit their ship deadlines. If there's a few models that aren't ready in time, instead of delaying shipment, Mantic simply sends out the 90% of stuff that they do have completed and then create an extra shipment later (at their own expense) to get the rest of it delivered.

One more day to go - do we know what time it is starting tomorrow, or is that in the lap of the KS gods?

Edit: Oops, wrong kickstarter thread.

^ Restic for the immortal guard.

One more day to go - do we know what time it is starting tomorrow, or is that in the lap of the KS gods?

12:30pm GMT, (so 1:30pm BST). Deduct 5-8 hours from that if you're in the US, so 4:30am to 7:30am depending on time zone. For US backers, getting the "early bird" pledges will really quite literally mean being an early bird!

Mantic has a countdown website here:

http://www.deadzonethegame.com/

.. and I'll be updating the title of this thread with an hourly countdown tomorrow morning.

Mantic started a Reddit Q&A for DeadZone

http://www.reddit.com/r/wargaming/comments/1d30vl/afternoon_reddit_were_launching_our_new/

JudgeDoug asks the most important question so far on Reddit, now just waiting on the answer:

[–]judgedoug 0 points1 point2 points 1 minute ago

Will the 3D plastic terrain be available as an add-on purchase? I'd like to get Deadzone but honestly I'd like to get about a dozen extra sets of terrain as well.

[–]manticgames[S] 0 points1 point2 points 12 minutes ago

I think we'd be crazy not to make it available as an add-on!


Yay, lets hope it's got a great price too!

My account is spazzing. Someone ask about gridless rules and larger then 2 x 2 games in ya can please!

 Salacious Greed wrote:
JudgeDoug asks the most important question so far on Reddit, now just waiting on the answer:

[–]judgedoug 0 points1 point2 points 1 minute ago

Will the 3D plastic terrain be available as an add-on purchase? I'd like to get Deadzone but honestly I'd like to get about a dozen extra sets of terrain as well.

You're welcome!
Reply:
[–]manticgames[S] 1 point 6 seconds ago

I think we'd be crazy not to make it available as an add-on!

That's good news. Hopefully it will be reasonably priced. Buying everything for dreadball you need to play costs the same without teams as the box set does with 2 10-man teams. So make sure you do some addition before you buy things piece-meal.

But then again, this is kickstarter and may very well be offered at a crazy deal for the terrain. Here's hopin'!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You Rock judgedoug!!!

Mantic via Reddit wrote:Playtesting is ongoing - we've spent a lot of time getting the rules to an alpha stage, and we'll be releasing them as a free download during the early stages of the Kickstarter. We're really keen to playtest as much as we can - DreadBall only worked as well as it did because we tested it so much! As such, we'll be listening to feedback on the alpha rules and taking suggestions into consideration.

As to what sets it apart, it straddles the middle ground between wargame and board game, with simple rules (loosely based around the system we used for DreadBall) and a 3D gaming area.

The Kickstarter page will show more detail - hope that's enough for today

a few questions: 1. why didnt you guys call it dreadzone? it woulda fit right in with dread ball! 2. will he plague be a mix of all races? 3. how many models are we talking per side? i'd like to be able to build small 30 man armies if possible.



[–]manticgames[S] 1 point 3 minutes ago

Hello! 1) We wanted it to be a bit different. (Hasn't stopped me constantly saying "Dreadzone" and correcting myself, mind!) Also, "Deadzone" is a term used in the background that's already been established. 2) So far the Plague are mostly human-based, but the more we make through Kickstarter, the more likely it is that they won't be the only ones. We have some ideas... 3) 30 is probably more than you'd use in a standard game - it's generally around 10 per side. That said, you might want to build a bigger force so you have more options.

I don't have a reddit account: Can someone ask if the models will be poseable/swappable multipart models, or will the models be unique sculpts that can't be swapped with parts of the other models without cutting/trimming/pinning?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Earth Dragon wrote:
My account is spazzing. Someone ask about gridless rules and larger then 2 x 2 games in ya can please!

judgedoug 1 point 46 minutes ago

Intrigued by the grid movement/los/shooting/etc - can you expand upon it in a few sentences?

Also, are there grid-less rules and/or rules for larger than 2x2 games?

[–]manticgames[S] 1 point 2 minutes ago

Basically, the movement and shooting rules are simplified and abstracted by way of the grid. Models move a set number of spaces in a turn - usually one, but modifiable with action cards etc.

We'll be putting up some gameplay videos in the first few days of the campaign that will explain how it all works way better than I can!

Currently the game is entirely set within the grid, but depending on the level of support we get, anything is possible...

Hope this answers your question

just asked them

Hi Triszin if you don't mind asking about the terrain. Did we see all of the panel designs and terrain elements at salute? if these are hard plastic do they come on a sprue frame and how many panels are there likely to be on a frame?

Thanks.

EDIT thanks for posting it Triszin hopefully Mantic are still online.

from darkPrince010 on dakkadakka: I don't have a reddit account: Can someone ask if the models will be poseable/swappable multipart models, or will the models be unique sculpts that can't be swapped with parts of the other models without cutting/trimming/pinning?

[–]manticgames[S] 1 point 2 minutes ago

First up, thanks for reposting these from dakka! I spotted the thread over there, but I'm only human

The current plan is for the models to be made of our standard "resin plastic / sprueless plastic", the same as DreadBall models. That means they're designed in one pose, but will generally require assembly. Of course, stretch goals being what they are, other options might become possible. It's going to be a wild and crazy month.



from DaveC on dakkadakka:

Did we see all of the panel designs and terrain elements at salute? if these are hard plastic do they come on a sprue frame and how many panels are there likely to be on a frame?


[–]manticgames[S] 1 point 49 seconds ago

It's tricky to answer this level of detail at the current stage - we've got prototypes made (which were the ones that were at Salute) but we're still working out how they'll fit onto the sprue. But yes, they will be hard plastic on a sprue.

Thanks!

I have to say, this makes me notably less enthused. I'll probably still be pledging for it, but I'm hoping that one of their early stretch goals is to make them ball-and-socket poseable models, instead of static slot-together monoposes. Otherwise without heavy modeling on my part my warband/gang-equivalent will look just like the others, barring paintjob. :(

On the other hand I hate blunt multiposed models and prefer great monoposed models.

its really in the eye of the beholder, you can't have everybody satisfied.

i don't expect to see plastic multi part kits for warpath until the warpath kickstarter which i will assume will be next year this time-ish? i however cannot wait for tomorrow, i will be buying lots.

Triszin wrote:
i don't expect to see plastic multi part kits for warpath until the warpath kickstarter which i will assume will be next year this time-ish? i however cannot wait for tomorrow, i will be buying lots.

Yes, Warpath Kickstarter is likely to be a year from now and will feature hard plastic kits.

Depending on the rules, this makes WYSIWYG gameplay much easier. I probably wouldn't like dreadball at all if people could pose their own models. Not being able to tell with a 4 second visual sweep what everything is on the board including the bench and sin bin would not only be annoying, but would really slow the game down. If the class system is attempting to recapture that same level of "I understand what that guy is generally capable of" at a quick glance, then I will be okay with, and actually prefer, fixed posed models.

I stopped playing Necromunda with guys who had little integrity for WYSIWYG ever since a juve with a dagger and stub gun charged me, and supposedly it was his leader with a power axe and plasma pistol........I don't think so. Get a new model or GTFO. Guy didn't even bother to say anything beforehand.

I think a lot of things that people have been mentioning have a very likely chance to show up as stretch goals, especially if Mantic is asked directly about it.

They've already alluded to gridless rules showing up down the road, commented that poseable models could be likely, and other races just may end up getting infected.

Infected teratons -> space kaiju!

If we end up with some rubble pieces on a sprue (demolishing buildings rules?) and some dreadnought equivalents to combat the big spikey nemesis dudes I'll be in seventh heaven!

There's a good chance this could be Mantic's biggest Kickstarter yet.

For posable models I don't mean everything needs to come in the LEGO kit of parts you get for GW troops, but rather the "torso and one arm" plus posable other arm and head thing they had for the KoW plastics. That way there can be a bit of variety in their stance, especially since they aren't going to be ranked up to hide uniform poses.

Heath draws a mean Kaiju, so I think infected Teratons could be pretty awesome.

 darkPrince010 wrote:
For posable models I don't mean everything needs to come in the LEGO kit of parts you get for GW troops, but rather the "torso and one arm" plus posable other arm and head thing they had for the KoW plastics. That way there can be a bit of variety in their stance, especially since they aren't going to be ranked up to hide uniform poses.

That's tricky, but can definitely produce nice models if done right.

I was thinking infected nameless's. now a combine a nameless and a teratron that is infected... mother of god..

Triszin wrote:
I was thinking infected nameless's. now a combine a nameless and a teratron that is infected... mother of god..

Oh man do I want one of those

I'd love to see Teratons make it into this game early on...

 Alpharius wrote:
I'd love to see Teratons make it into this game early on...

You'll be happy.

 Cyporiean wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
I'd love to see Teratons make it into this game early on...

You'll be happy.

Do a little dance!!

Make a little love!!

Get down tonight!!

Get down tonight!!

Just the sheer fact those Dreadball Teratons look so sweet, I'll give the game a go just to play them even though I'm not nearly as excited about the rules. Good move Mantic!!

Actually the more I think about it the more I am interested in a sci-fi boardgame like this. A lot of my gaming group does not have time or money to spend on giant armies or big wargames, but they have no problem with a mordheim or dreadball team. Deadzone could be perfect, especially if it's in the hour-or-less category. About half of my gaming group pretty much only plays boardgames so this may be a way to get both of boardgamers and minis gamers to play games together.

16 hours til launch. Got an alarm set for 0210 in the morning. Hopefully they are right on time so I can get my happy hide back to bed afterwards.

Well I hope this is more than a UGOIGO board game with miniatures, I am definately going to support this as I believe in Mantic, even as I contiue working on my KOW army. I like the looks so far, will be dissapointed in static minatures, and limted single scenario game play. Hope the input from backers will open this up to be a dynamic game

I think I've resigned myself to not getting an early bird at this point. It just isn't happening. Hasn't happened on any of the big ticket mini juggernauts we've had plowing through the tabletop section of Kickstarter for the past few months.

Looking forward to this has been the only thing I've been excited about his week. Kind of sad. My free time on the computer has been dulled somewhat since Myth ended, so I'm going to need a bit of a pickmeup.

Hopefully there are enough "Early Birds" to accommodate the world wide crush they'll be experiencing.

I was hoping people would start to drop the EB non-sense as they might get more backers the first week and avoid folks pouting about missing $10 off so they refuse to pledge.

But then again, we are in the age of entitlement and they'll loose other pledges from folks pouting about there being no EB specials.

Damned if you do.....

Yeah, I don't get the rage and bile that seems to seep out of people when they aren't able to save a whopping ten units of whatever currency they wheel and deal in.

Plus there always seem to be a few spots open and close over the course of a campaign. If you're that butthurt over not saving a bit (that most likely will get spent on the Kickstarter anyway) watch the backer amounts like a hawk like the rest of us poor plebs do.

If not saving $10 means I get a few more hours of needed sleep, I can handle not saving $10...

Well Said Capt Jake, I am on a 15 day stint with 12 hr days, I need my sleep, on the other had the overtime will provide me with much $$$ for this kick starter and the All Quiet on the Martian Front KS....

 CptJake wrote:
If not saving $10 means I get a few more hours of needed sleep, I can handle not saving $10...

Good point!

And once you have kids, that sleep is worth even more!

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Yeah, I don't get the rage and bile that seems to seep out of people when they aren't able to save a whopping ten units of whatever currency they wheel and deal in.

I think I can understand it. Americans have very tight budgets right now, and almost no chance of making an early bird. Now, imagine we hit our budget limits when the Infected Nameless Teraton add-on is announced. And it's $10.

And that's how internet grudges are born.

(I'm pretty much resigned to missing out on the EB and just adding add ons when the wave 2 or wave 3 pledge manager comes out.)

 Alpharius wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
If not saving $10 means I get a few more hours of needed sleep, I can handle not saving $10...

Good point!

And once you have kids, that sleep is worth even more!

Got kids. And horses and dogs. I get up at 0445 every day to get everything fed and the daughter to her bus stop on time. Tomorrow I drive from her bus stop 2.5 hours to Ft Gordon for a briefing and need to make it back to pick her up at the bus stop when she gest dropped off... Waking up at Zero Dark Thirty to save $10 just isn't worth it to me at this stage in my life.

I may still be up at 5am simply because of my awesome, rocking, off-beat circadian rhythm. If so I will stop in and have a look. If the gods are kind, I will have been asleep for a few hours by then and won't be waking up for several more.

But if not, see all you Other-side-of-the-oceanians and insomniacs there.

Since my daughter will be dropping off my grandson at 0630 even though I will be getting to bed at 0130, since I am up I will see what is happening, good thing is he naps at 1000 so I nap too

I'm getting up more for the limited high dollar pledges to see if I like any. Some just give you non-sense, others a super deal, others a special character. Just wanna make sure I at least have a chance. The EB I couldn't care less about.

Just set your alarm, swear multiple times when it goes off, make your pledge, set your alarm again and go back to sleep for a couple of hours. :p

...and then KS lags with the actual activation for anywhere from 10 to 90 minutes

 Bolognesus wrote:
...and then KS lags with the actual activation for anywhere from 10 to 90 minutes

I hate you so, so much

Hopefully they got everything cleared earlier in the week and it will be pretty close to the dot.

Im really interested in the scenery in this, looks like it would be perfect for Necro and Infinity. Hopefully the game is different enough to be worthwhile...

Earth Dragon wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:
...and then KS lags with the actual activation for anywhere from 10 to 90 minutes

I hate you so, so much

Hopefully they got everything cleared earlier in the week and it will be pretty close to the dot.

...My work here is done, I see

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Yeah, I don't get the rage and bile that seems to seep out of people when they aren't able to save a whopping ten units of whatever currency they wheel and deal in.

Plus there always seem to be a few spots open and close over the course of a campaign. If you're that butthurt over not saving a bit (that most likely will get spent on the Kickstarter anyway) watch the backer amounts like a hawk like the rest of us poor plebs do.

For me at least, it's not rage. I'm rally at the point where I'm only likely to look at a KS in the final days, as they change so much in the 30 days they are up. I'm waiting on product from 16 different projects worth thousands of dollars (including all of Mantic's existing projects). Only 1 product has actually come to full fruition and is "finished". Quite a few are many months overdue. So no, no rage or bile. But the KS shiny has worn off, so I'll only jump in early if I get an early bird. After all, no-one involved with gaming in any way is "entitled" to my money.

Really looking forward to getting in on this action!
I missed the Dreadball KS as I was not lucky enough to notice Kickstarter until the last day of the Rivet Wars project, which was to sweet to pass up on the Blitzkrieg pledge.
Then Wild West Exodus got a huge chunk of my money, as those models are just so sweet and it has a great community imho.

So lets hope this is a great KS by the boys just down the road from me.

Anyone going to the open day? A bit far for some people I guess.

Mick

So.. what happened?

Is this up yet or is kickstarter holding it up? I can't seem to find it.

 Alpharius wrote:
So.. what happened?

Yeah, I was wondering the same.... I suppose Kickstarter just didn't go? I'll be watching today to see if it pops up.

Countdown clock now says about 38 minutes to go.

I guess they reset it?

I could've sworn that is was due to already have been launched?

 Alpharius wrote:
Countdown clock now says about 38 minutes to go.

I guess they reset it?

I could've sworn that is was due to already have been launched?

Yeah, pretty sure it was supposed to launch at 7:30 eastern time... oh well.

If they reset it then they did it a good long while back. I had calculated that it would be going off at around 5:30am (my time) before I had even gotten in to work yesterday (so at least 12 hours ago). But I wasn't going off the rumoured time, just what the countdown showed.

When does the reset clock say its supposed to start?

In 24 minutes from.... NOW!

(8:30AM EST, I guess?)

Mine says 25 minutes from now. So it should be going off at 12:30pm GMT (which is what scarletsquig said earlier in the thread). But the clock has been reading with that as the assumed end-point since I have been looking at it. So I don't think it was a reset, probably just a miscalculation on someone's part at some point. It was starting up at 12:30pm GMT and that is what the counter shows and (to my knowledge) has shown all along.

Edit - 22 minutes now.

**checks in after having had a good eight or so hours of sleep**
Ahh, nothing like feeling well-rested and wide awake for a KS kickoff at a nice, convenient time for your local time zone
**prods damn yanks again**
Makes for a nice change vs. all the US centered stuff usually going on

It does make more sense to have the start point include the East Coast of the US in a 'reasonable' time, as well as having the UK and Europe be 'mid-day'.

Though I guess the ending point is probably a bit more important!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bolognesus wrote:
**checks in after having had a good eight or so hours of sleep**
Ahh, nothing like feeling well-rested and wide awake for a KS kickoff at a nice, convenient time for your local time zone
**prods damn yanks again**
Makes for a nice change vs. all the US centered stuff usually going on

When you're the biggest market for this kind of stuff, it does actually make sense to tailor it a bit for that market.

And yes, green does look good on you Bologney!

 Bolognesus wrote:
**checks in after having had a good eight or so hours of sleep**
Ahh, nothing like feeling well-rested and wide awake for a KS kickoff at a nice, convenient time for your local time zone
**prods damn yanks again**
Makes for a nice change vs. all the US centered stuff usually going on

Hah! Sleep who nee...*zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz*...ds that!

Where am I?

Something is definitely going on with the clock there.

Maybe they got an update from Kickstarter, sometimes they can drag their heels a little, dreadball was also later than the countdown predicted as a result of this.

http://www.deadzonethegame.com/

Previously it was set to 12:30 GMT, it's been bumped forward by 45 minutes to 1:15 GMT.

It's clear that the clock has changed, since people would have been off by an hour if if was wrong, not 45 minutes.

Not long now, anyway.

Shenanigans!!!

Hurry up - I have a work meeting that's due to start soon!!!

Clock was always set for 13:30 BST for me it's currently 13:19 BST BST is an hour ahead of GMT thus GMT being 12:30 remember the UK is currently on BST not GMT

 Alpharius wrote:
Shenanigans!!!

Hurry up - I have a work meeting that's due to start soon!!!

Atleast i know someone's in the same boat as me...

 DaveC wrote:
Clock was always set for 13:30 BST for me it's currently 13:19 BST BST is an hour ahead of GMT thus GMT being 12:30 remember the UK is currently on BST not GMT

Pst, even when America is on Daylight savings time and it should switch from (in my case) EST to EDT... I still call it EST, so

But seriously, can it be 8 minutes from now?

Deadzones, much like Bermuda Triangles, have an adverse effect on linear time.

 Catyrpelius wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Shenanigans!!!

Hurry up - I have a work meeting that's due to start soon!!!

Atleast i know someone's in the same boat as me...

Same :( Though my meeting is at 9am

Only a matter of 5mins by my clock, very excited! Reallly looking forward to seeing the Veer-Myn, Rebs and Asterains come out of this. I'm also going to vainly hope the Asterains don't turn out to be not-Eldar and
that Mantic does something unique (and maybe "new") with space-elves, but thats just me.

Leave me to my dreams people.

5 min to go for predicted start.

Just over 3 minutes remaining on the countdown, rather excited for this!

Bugger, it's light out, when did that happen? Stupid summer and its daylight!

I have a meeting in 35 mins... hope it isn't late!

30 SECONDS!!!

yay!

Live now

And now we wait.

Edit - Oh wow, that was quicker than expected.

My clocks at zero hour!

Its up: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/deadzone-the-sci-fi-miniatures-board-game

Pledged for an EB. Now I just need to see what it was I pledged for.

It's up, in at $140

Pledged at $140 EB, that's the one you want.

Holy CRAP, $15k in the first 1 minute.

There's 700 EBs so should keep everyone happy goes up $1 in cost each EB level.

You want the 140 EB, so much so that they have like 5 or 6 of that level

In at 140

I give it 2 hours (max) before it funds, anyone taking any bets?

Also looks at those Rebs and Mararuders, thats awesome.

They don't appear to have add-ons for the terrain (which is pretty much the only thing I'm interested in). Oh well, backed anyway as I'm sure they will add an option down the line.

Ronnie was showing off that big Plague dude to some people at AdeptiCon,

The artist for that is amazing! (and he's a bit of a lush, though he'll deny it)

In for 140$. That was exciting. Now to actually look at the site.

...Well, those starters sure are set up to be expanded by stretch goals a bit - this isn't much of a value just yet.
Problem is I specifically want those enforcer engineer and sniper models - neither of which is even available for any kind of pledge yet.
Sure it'll get better yet, though. Quite interesting to see how far that will go - Dreadball felt like a better value at the start of it's KS campaign than this does now...

 Rolt wrote:
I give it 2 hours (max) before it funds, anyone taking any bets?

More like 15-30 minutes at this rate.

In for the $140 early bird because that's what all the cool kids are doing. Hopefully FFs show up soon so I can move on to them. The Rebs are looking kind of fun either way.

Yep that raises fast, I really hope they reconsider the enforcer captain though.

Kickstarter really needs to implement some sort of acheivment point system...

Wow, I expected it to go fast but sheesh!

Over halfway there in 8 minutes.

In at $140, and along for the ride.

~Eric

Yeah, I'll join the party. Necromunda, eat your heart out!

 Alfndrate wrote:
Ronnie was showing off that big Plague dude to some people at AdeptiCon,

The artist for that is amazing! (and he's a bit of a lush, though he'll deny it)

Dumb question, buts whats a "Lush"? I've never heard that before.

Lush = somebody too fond of alcohol, having a drinking problem etc

 Rolt wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
Ronnie was showing off that big Plague dude to some people at AdeptiCon,

The artist for that is amazing! (and he's a bit of a lush, though he'll deny it)

Dumb question, buts whats a "Lush"? I've never heard that before.

Used as a noun, a lush is someone that is a habitual drinker, it also has the added connotation that it is someone that can't handle their booze...

Welp, since lush was already handled, I'll go this way.

I'm not entirely sure if Strike Team or Recon is the way to go. It sounds like you'll be getting all the stretch goals (albeit only for two factions instead of four), and could save $50. I suppose it depends a lot on how the stretch goals are going to work. It's probably worth going Strike Team, but heck, I had to edit this to something more meaningful that 'ninja'd'.

$140 in now... if it is like any of Mantic's other kickstarters this will be closer to $700 by the end lol

It's interesting that they've got their 'lite' version of the game available right from the start (Scientist level) and that it comes with pre-assembles coloured minis for the straight boardgame crowd

smart move Mantic

Yeah, jumping in on this at $140 if only for the 4 factions and scenery.

I wouldn't be unhappy if that was all i got but I have a feeling i will be seeing a lot of extra stuff added to the base box. Did anyone see the "2nd Generation" plague dude in the video and notice it wasn't in the faction pack?

I would love it if there was a similar "underboss" for each of the faction that was unlocked along the way.

One sad thing is I am somewhat justified in not buying a set of enforcers just for display as these are far more character-ful.

Yep, they're hitting all markets with this, boardgamers and wargamers in some kind of glorious middle ground.

100% of the DZ minis will have Warpath rules, I made sure to ask about that, so these can form the start of armies for that game too if you want.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
It's interesting that they've got their 'lite' version of the game available right from the start (Scientist level) and that it comes with pre-assembles coloured minis for the straight boardgame crowd

smart move Mantic

Very smart. They've payed close attention to different groups.

i had to update java, and when it finished the 140 EB was gone, so i just got the 141 eb! I can't wait for more options to buy more building sprues, and or maybe just a cheap way to double everything in the striker edition. also part of me wants to do the captain striker at 500 but thats a bit out of my price range atm.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
its at 46k already. lol

Lansirill wrote:Welp, since lush was already handled, I'll go this way.

I'm not entirely sure if Strike Team or Recon is the way to go. It sounds like you'll be getting all the stretch goals (albeit only for two factions instead of four), and could save $50. I suppose it depends a lot on how the stretch goals are going to work. It's probably worth going Strike Team, but heck, I had to edit this to something more meaningful that 'ninja'd'.

Check out what you get in Striker and what you get in Jack and expect the same. IMO you get value for the extra $50.

BTW, the $150 pledge has 2 extra factions and 2 extra building sprues already.

God, it's like they pay attention to their customer base.

They did something similar with Dreadball, they were selling, "Dreadball Kickoff" at AdeptiCon, it came with the rules, the board, dice, and models, but no ref or cards, and was more for a board game rather than a "wargame"

Once the scenery sprues become available as add ons, think this will shoot through the roof. Mid-campaign slump breaker perhaps.

Pledged. Not really sure what I am getting but I will check when I am out of bed!

Digital enforcer sculpts huh? Seems like they have tweaked the legs to look less skinny also, good move Mantic. Just please offer the old enforcer captain over old grumpy in a cape, not a fan...

$5 shipping for me isn't bad also, got an earlybird so I guess it pays for itself.

 Alfndrate wrote:
God, it's like they pay attention to their customer base.

They did something similar with Dreadball, they were selling, "Dreadball Kickoff" at AdeptiCon, it came with the rules, the board, dice, and models, but no ref or cards, and was more for a board game rather than a "wargame"

I think you could even argue in favour of titling the boardgame version Dreadball, and the miniature version something extra.

 Vain wrote:
Did anyone see the "2nd Generation" plague dude in the video and notice it wasn't in the faction pack?

Yeah looks like theres going to be alot of hidden planned guys added to all the current factions. If you look at the starter sets you can see silhouettes that don't match the show artwork, its most noticable with the Reds, theres
clearly a guy with a tail and digitigrade legs.

It's the other use of lush "People" now apply the specific vegetation adjective to anything in general that's perceived to be a good thing.

Such as, that $140 pledge level looks lush, glad I got myself one

$40 for 6 models this time?

I am quite intrigued on the aliens named but not shown in rebels and on the aliens shown but unnamed on the videos illustrations.

And funded, in half an hour for $50k.

 AlexHolker wrote:
$40 for 6 models this time?

Possibly room for some stretches on that level?

Is that some level of record? O.o

 Alfndrate wrote:
Is that some level of record? O.o

No, Zombiecide Season 2 holds the record at something like 10 minutes...

Man thats was fast, this could be Mantics biggest KS by far. Now just imagine how crazy the Warpath KS will be next year.

Oh well on to the stretch goals.

Well that took what, 35 mins?

More early bird strike team 5 and 6 have sold than early bird 4. It's not much....but that is a few dollars being thrown away. :S

Interesting international option: Shipping is $5, but courier is still $15.

 Catyrpelius wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
Is that some level of record? O.o

No, Zombiecide Season 2 holds the record at something like 10 minutes...

That had a target of $25k though, not $50k. It still wins, but not by a great margin.

This going to be huge, I can see $1.5mil for this.

 Rolt wrote:
Yeah looks like theres going to be alot of hidden planned guys added to all the current factions. If you look at the starter sets you can see silhouettes that don't match the show artwork, its most noticable with the Reds, theres clearly a guy with a tail and digitigrade legs.

Not too sure on the Reb, their faction list include leadert, 2 humans and 3 non human sounding races, Sorak, Yndij (Indigenous to the world?) and a heavy weapon Grogan. My money is on the non-human in the art being the grogan but they have included 2 extra humans in the art, which is odd, rather than line work of the Sorak or Yndij.


Edit: Name correction

decker_cky wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:
$40 for 6 models this time?

Possibly room for some stretches on that level?

And a card deck, and the probability of getting more after stretches, and the shipping

Rules for this are sounding great.

Terrain is destructible, you can loot new weapons and use them during the game by finding crates (which may also be booby-trapped!).

Sounds like a lot of fun.

Well I'm in at $142 now I've just got to hope that my car doesn't decide to break down again and force me out of this one. After the annoyance of missing out on the Warzone kickstarter thanks to me car I really don't want it to happen again.

$141 for me. Really looking forward to this kickstarter

Surprised at no stretch goals. I hope they add some.

Give them time, it's not been up long.

No Addons either... but that's definately going to change very very soon ^^

Too bad... Can't support Mantic on concept art alone, especially since they have tragic failures in producing quality Orc models. Apparently when their orcs grow, their hands and heads go from a bestial faced truescale to a humanoid face heroic scale. And usually end up being posed as if they are having a stroke or falling down. I would rather their models have the static pose of the concept art if it meant faithful representations.

So let's see real sculpts or 3D renders before they get any money.

Hmm Mantic have dropped a hint about combat drones and walkers in the comments. That sounds good.

 scarletsquig wrote:

 Catyrpelius wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
Is that some level of record? O.o

No, Zombiecide Season 2 holds the record at something like 10 minutes...

That had a target of $25k though, not $50k. It still wins, but not by a great margin.

This going to be huge, I can see $1.5mil for this.

It hit 25k in less then 2 minutes, they passed 50k not long after that.

I wake up late, expecting all EBs to be gone, pull up this thread and see they're still available. Mantic is still going the extra mile to save us a couple bucks where they can (so we'll spend those extra bucks on them in other areas of the kickstarter ). I love the Plague leader, quite enjoy the regular Plague now that I see them in better detail on the KS page, and the new factions look awesome too. Very impressed with Mantic, once again. I own almost as many Mantic models as I own GW now-and have spent 1/4 of the cost!! If that.

Good on Mantic for including LOTS of early birds. Managed to grab a 142 one at least.

I find it funnyt that the mock ups don't match the displays for each faction so far. We've got a Marauder with a chainsaw arm in power armor at the faction description, and then there's the massive one with rockets and "more dakka" to borrow a phrase down there at the pledge levels.

The multiples of generic troops makes me wonder if things get wild enough if they might get sprued at some point- get yourself some easy basic grunt troops that way?

Rebs having all the aliens is a plus.

Big question in my head right now is will Mantic be able to outpace MERCS in giving out all kinds of extra goodies?

I hope and expect so- this is the company known for actually doing pre-order discounts as a regular basis.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Big question in my head right now is will Mantic be able to outpace MERCS in giving out all kinds of extra goodies?

I can only point you towards Dreadball, which finished with around $500 of stuff for the $150 pledge level.

Where's the !@$& stretch goals? If they had been posted, we would have gone through a 75k one already.

I'm sure they're coming, can't really blame Mantic for being a little slow as I doubt that anyone would have foreseen Deadzone being funded so quickly.

The Deadzone rulebook is going to include rules for MOVING and SHOOTING? My, my... What's Mantic going to think of next? Rules for determining the winner? Nah, that'd be too groundbreaking even for the world-renowned game designer Jake Thornton.

Joking aside, I like some of the models, but I won't be pledging. I hope the models are available as separate blisters eventually.

Corp:
- commander has wonky proportions and his cape doesn't fit the WP aesthetics. I though they were supposed to be hard SF shock troops, not crusader knights in space? Is it a war trophy taken off a dead forgefather? His face expression makes him look clueless, like he's lost his way and wandered onto the battlefield. "Hmm, I seem to have made a wrong turn somewhere between Mass Effect and 40K..."

- troopers are nice, though I feel they're too detailed. I don't like so many breaks in flat surfaces, it takes forever to paint, and unless you're an accomplished painter, will look too busy and simply not good.

- sniper is cool. Cape without camo is silly, but that's just the official painting, so can be rectified. One of the few Mantic miniatures I can personally classify as badass.

- drone controller is cool. Drone is OK, not that creative, but it'll do. I like tech support guys, they're so rare in wargames (remember the chapter serf from Macragge?).

Plague:
- big Plague guy is awesome. Will become a post-apocalyptic mutant leader. He looks pissed and out to pound some puny humans into bloody pulps. Love him!

- medium Plague zombie looks goofy as heck. The artwork it's based on was nice, but they botched the sculpt. Looks like a rage monkey and elicits derisive chuckling instead of dread. I dislike the blockade as well - I don't do urban bases, so it'd look out of place. Pass.

- small zombies are... not my cup of tea. Again, goofy proportions. I understand they were supposed to be grotesque and misshapen, but they made them look like caricatures, with awkward, elongated, cartoon-like torsos and limbs, complete with redneck heads. Dead Space necromorphs these ain't.

The game itself sounds promising, but the grid will have to go. I can only hope it's not that much of a hassle to reverse-engineer it to utilize inches instead, otherwise it's a pass as well. I'm simply not interested in watered-down, wargame-boardgame hybrids. DT was disappointing enough.

On a side note, I do not understand why they refer to Marauders as a brand new race, same with Enforcers.

New stretch goal - $100k for another sprue of hard plastic terrain.

So, a new design of buildings to mix and match with the current set.

I'm happy with that. More hard plastic from Mantic and upgraded quality for the game = yes please!

well be at that in 2 hours

Yep not going to take long to get some more variety in the scenery.

I give it less then 30 minutes to break the 100k

nkelsch wrote:
Too bad... Can't support Mantic on concept art alone, especially since they have tragic failures in producing quality Orc models. Apparently when their orcs grow, their hands and heads go from a bestial faced truescale to a humanoid face heroic scale. And usually end up being posed as if they are having a stroke or falling down. I would rather their models have the static pose of the concept art if it meant faithful representations.

So let's see real sculpts or 3D renders before they get any money.

Agreed... I don't know if folks just want quantity over quality but there has been a high rate of "misses", and a few of the sculpts they already have done for this are awful (the captain being the worst).

I don't know if it's internet/ early bird hysteria or, as I said before, folks who just want quantity... the quality isn't there imo.