LordofHats wrote: Its not an attitude PC gamers have been very happy with. Not sure why so many people fall back to the "PC has always been this way therefore there's nothing wrong with it" logic.
Because PC gaming is awesome. So what if you don't own the rights to software? I have plenty of other stuff that's way more important. Warhammer, money, sex etc
Amazon Germany might have just accidentally leaked the price of the new Xbox One. Listed on the site as 599 euros, or around £510, this could be confirmation of the next-generation console's cost.
It could be real. You're trying to work on converting the currency across. What usually happens is they change the GBP or Euro symbol for a $ sign. It could very easily be priced around $500 at launch.
It's closer to $775 USD...and if my memory serves me correctly, the expensive PS3 was running for $600 when it was first released, so I can completely believe this.
There's no way they're charging that much. The PS3's high initial price tag was a huge hindrance to the system. In my mind, Microsoft is pretty dumb but not that dumb. It's a place holder.
LordofHats wrote: There's no way they're charging that much. The PS3's high initial price tag was a huge hindrance to the system. In my mind, Microsoft is pretty dumb but not that dumb. It's a place holder.
I have no problem beveling that they are in fact that dumb.
Amazon Germany might have just accidentally leaked the price of the new Xbox One. Listed on the site as 599 euros, or around £510, this could be confirmation of the next-generation console's cost.
Guys, the price on Amazon is a placeholder. It started at 999€ and then went down to 600€. Amazon usually does this when new consoles or other expensive, hyped stuff is about to come out. No leak
Perkustin wrote: Microsoft have been playing around with the same price model as phones. You can currently get a 360 for $99 aa long as you buy two years xbox live.
You may be looking at $200-$300 with 2 years xbox live ($100-200).
That is actually not a bad idea.... Or really a bad price if you think about it... the question is will they fix all of their foul-ups with what they announce at E3 and make the brick worth getting, or do i give Sony my money?
Oh, thank God. Between my computer, my tablet, my phone, my TV, my car, and my fething refrigerator, I don't have enough multimedia devices that let me social network. I really need my FIFA machine to do it, too.
Sigvatr wrote: So...did they announce yet that Xbox Gold is mandatory now? Because I sure as hell assume it is.
They have Xbox Live Silver, which you don't often hear about.
It's free, is very stripped down, but will let you get updates, use certain apps, etc.
I'd imagine they'd still keep that service around. Forcing your customer base to get Gold with no "free" option seems like suicide.
But this is the Xbox One we're talking about...
Sony did that too, but guess what, people got FREE GAMES with their "gold" subscription. I was aware of Silver, never bought gold for the Xbox as it had no value for what you pay. And...suicide? Like forced online 24h and getting rid of the 2nd hand market?
They've added a bit to that Kotaku article at the bottom, seems Microsoft is already backing up on any confirmations.
Until this thing is sitting under my TV, I'm not taking any of these comments for granted, as both companies have backed down/changed plans based on gamer reaction in the past.
They put out a super stringent check-in number to start with, saw the outrage, and will predictably back off on it to engender goodwill amongst the community before release.
This has totally happened before with other things.
It's a placeholder (though a slight price increase wouldn't shock me).
Automatically Appended Next Post: Things do however keep getting dicer!
Microsoft continues to seem out of touch.
After delivering confusing messaging with their Xbox One reveal, you’d think Microsoft would finally clue in and realize they need to give people solid answers about the console’s rumoured always-online and used game fee features.
Now it seems Microsoft has cancelled its post E3 round table session with the media. Why? Who knows. It seems Microsoft enjoys creating confusion these days.
On the bright side, maybe Microsoft is just trying to avoid the mixed messaging it experienced after Q and A sessions with Microsoft reps. Depending on who each journalist spoke to, they all got different responses.
Hopefully Microsoft will clear everything up during their E3 presentation at 9:30 a.m. PT on June 10. I’m tired of all the speculation.
This change has further stocked skepticism that Microsoft will provide concrete details concerning the XBone and many of the controversial rumors flying around it.
On top of this, there are now rumors that the beta stage XBones suffed (here it comes) from a high failure rate due to faulty chips! It's also been rumored that the TV feature doesn't actually work (and the show at the reveal was in fact faked as the Basketball game and Price is Right episode were not airing at the time of the show).
This video has hit the net via Wired about TV integration and careful viewing shows you something interesting. Watch a 1:13 when they switch to live tv and watch the feed move at 5 frames a second (or alternately there is no feed at all and they're just throwing up stills).
On the funnier side, the video also provides one of the greatest (edit: out of context quotes that is) quotes ever: "You don't have to remember what channel it's on anymore. You can just say "Xbox, Channel 13!""
*Keep in mind that these are just rumors/conjecture.
Well I wish I could say its been fun but it really hasn't. I'm not impressed with the news on the new xbox. I don't like the always online or the 24 hour check. I really don't like the Kinect. I didn't buy one when it came out and I'd rather not have one on the new one. At this point it really is Sony's game to lose for me, but then again I wasn't a big fan of the ps3 mainly because they didn't really have as many games that I wanted to play.
The mention of charging you more when kinect detects another person is news to me. Even without that, I can say for certain that I will not be getting an xbox at launch, even if they fix everything.
Microsoft is going into EA territory. Do something truly horrible, then fix it after people get outraged, and expect people to still be friendly with them afterwards.
Necroshea wrote: The mention of charging you more when kinect detects another person is news to me. Even without that, I can say for certain that I will not be getting an xbox at launch, even if they fix everything.
Microsoft is going into EA territory. Do something truly horrible, then fix it after people get outraged, and expect people to still be friendly with them afterwards.
I'll eat a hat if that actually exists in real life.
I don't forsee it going anywhere beyond wild forum speculation.
Necroshea wrote: The mention of charging you more when kinect detects another person is news to me. Even without that, I can say for certain that I will not be getting an xbox at launch, even if they fix everything.
Microsoft is going into EA territory. Do something truly horrible, then fix it after people get outraged, and expect people to still be friendly with them afterwards.
I'll eat a hat if that actually exists in real life.
I don't forsee it going anywhere beyond wild forum speculation.
Microsoft is in the process of patenting or has already patented the relevant technology for just that.
Their was an story on it awhile ago. It's been patented. I would like to think that no one would actually use it, but I'll keep a hat around just in case.
Necroshea wrote: The mention of charging you more when kinect detects another person is news to me. Even without that, I can say for certain that I will not be getting an xbox at launch, even if they fix everything.
Microsoft is going into EA territory. Do something truly horrible, then fix it after people get outraged, and expect people to still be friendly with them afterwards.
I'm pretty sure this is a bogus rumor started by paranoid people.
I've never seen it "officially" mentioned anywhere or cited in any way as actually being on the Xbox one.
Who knows though, at this point it's anyone's guess. The system could devour your first born child as a payment for your first year of Xbox Live Unobtanium for all we know.
Necroshea wrote: The mention of charging you more when kinect detects another person is news to me. Even without that, I can say for certain that I will not be getting an xbox at launch, even if they fix everything.
Microsoft is going into EA territory. Do something truly horrible, then fix it after people get outraged, and expect people to still be friendly with them afterwards.
You could just put sth. in front of the lens tbf.
...I should start producing 3rd party Kinect lenses. I'll get rich.
That means nothing Slarg. The prices for the UK Xbox One are placeholders.
It's a very common practice for Amazon to put up prices that are their "guesstimates", or set the prices artificially high so if people preorder they can refund the difference rather than add another charge to the card.
Although it raises many questions, it also answers many with a gritty in your face "not our problem". The majority of the most annoying features have now been declared publisher's choice.
Although it raises many questions, it also answers many with a gritty in your face "not our problem". The majority of the most annoying features have now been declared publisher's choice.
All of these things are good for me, personally.
I can see why some may not like them, however.
edit: oh hey look, the same information that you can glean off the official MS site
I seriously don't understand how they went from the 360 to this mess. In my eyes, the 360 was the perfect console, but they've dropped every single ball here.
Why should I have to check in every 24 hours when I haven't played a multiplayer game in half a year? Asking customers to do that is utterly ridiculous, anything that restricts access to the system can only be bad for them in the long run.
Same goes for the used game market. Nowadays I buy most of my games off eBay, I think I bought maybe three games new this past year. But you know what? Restricting me from getting these games for cheap isn't going to convince me to buy them new: it just means I won't end up playing the game. I'm playing Dead Island now cause I got it for 15 bucks. It's fun, but there's no way I ever would have had enough interest in this to buy it for full retail price, and the same goes for a lot of other games I've played recently.
And really, saying "it'll be the publisher's decision" translates to "we're cutting off the used market but we want to try to shift the blame to someone else."
Nobody wants a Kinect. Get that through your collective skulls, Microsoft. There's a reason it's been almost entirely neglected by AAA gaming. Because it's worthless.
I think what is irking me the most about this is that there are things I'm definitely going to feel like I'm missing out on by not buying one (which I'm definitely not). Halo 5, the new Halo TV series, possibly Mass Effect games. It's going to suck losing those, but I feel like Microsoft's forcing my hand. Maybe I'll make the switch over to Sony, and somehow learn to deal with their weird excuse for a controller. It's not like there's anything keeping me tethered to the Xbox (cough, backwards compatibility, cough, XBLA games). More than likely though, this new generation of games is going to pass me by. I'll stick with my 360 til I play every backlogged game I'm interested in, and then come back to test the waters.
Nobody wants a Kinect. Get that through your collective skulls, Microsoft. There's a reason it's been almost entirely neglected by AAA gaming. Because it's worthless.
Why should I have to check in every 24 hours when I haven't played a multiplayer game in half a year? Asking customers to do that is utterly ridiculous, anything that restricts access to the system can only be bad for them in the long run.
It's a DRM check. It specifically checks and updates what games you're allowed to play to make sure you didn't do something evil and nefarious like lend the game to a friend or sell it. Without a 24 hour check, you could do something dastardly like sell the game and maybe play it for a few days after the fact (assuming that the rumor of needing the disc only for installs and initial verification is true).
Yeah, the idea of a device that can read your expressions and recognize you and probably record and transmit everything is way too big brother for me. With todays news of the "Prism" system the government has set up where they can record in real time everything you do on Microsoft/yahoo/apple/skype/youtube/etc, no conspiracy theory is too wild to just discount off hand.
ExNoctemNacimur wrote: I'm not sure if this has been discussed earlier, but does the kinect always on thing bother anyone?
Why would it, since when it is in low power mode, its listening for one thing: "xbox on", not to mention you can turn it off.
What do you think its doing?
Until they decide that it's not and bury it in the TOS and then sell it. Or until the federal government tells them to have it listen for everything (see my post above and news today on the "prism" system in use since 2007). Or until a hacker in Russia develops a virus that can do the above. I've got nothing to actually hide (other than occasionally gaming in my boxers). The worst thing I've ever done in front of the xbox is likely scratch my ass while watching a movie... but that doesn't mean I want the tech there with the capability to record everything visual/auditory over which is "mandatory" while the device is on.
ExNoctemNacimur wrote: I'm not sure if this has been discussed earlier, but does the kinect always on thing bother anyone?
Why would it, since when it is in low power mode, its listening for one thing: "xbox on", not to mention you can turn it off.
What do you think its doing?
I don't know, and I've probably got my tin foil hat on, but there's the chance that it could be recording what you're doing, or if something's up, will begin recording what you're doing. I don't know, I think I need to go outside.
ExNoctemNacimur wrote: I'm not sure if this has been discussed earlier, but does the kinect always on thing bother anyone?
Why would it, since when it is in low power mode, its listening for one thing: "xbox on", not to mention you can turn it off.
What do you think its doing?
Why would EA's EULA get everyone all up in arms over aggregate data? People get paranoid about stuff.
But come on. Surely you can see that it is a little creepy? Even recognizing that nothing will probably come of it, it's still creepy. I'm not gonna blame anyone for being weirded out over it, cause it is weird. They could easily include the 'Xbox On' voice commands without the kinect buy building it into the system itself. Instead they invited paranoia by building it into an accessory not everyone wants and that has a built in camera.
Microsoft has never been the best marketer in the business but lately they've really been dropping the ball on the games front. XBone has become a swirling mess of rumors, confusion, and bad ideas and Microsoft isn't doing much to quell the fires.
daedalus-templarius wrote: Why would it, since when it is in low power mode, its listening for one thing: "xbox on", not to mention you can turn it off.
Listening for "Xbox on" by necessity means listening to everything else, and processing it at least to the point where it confirms that you didn't just say "Xbox on".
ExNoctemNacimur wrote: I'm not sure if this has been discussed earlier, but does the kinect always on thing bother anyone?
Why would it, since when it is in low power mode, its listening for one thing: "xbox on", not to mention you can turn it off.
What do you think its doing?
Watching, listening, piloting. It's creepy man. It's not a hard concept to understand how people can be bothered by a device that doesn't turn off. It means you don't have control of it and people don't want to invite in technology that they don't own or control. It's a skynet thing. We only like technology when we feel we are in change of it.
Yea we are totally into tinfoil hat territory now.
I'm sure an enterprising group of network engineers are going to be monitoring everything the XBone sends out over the network on day 1, and they would know immediately if its listening for 'more', or 'recording' you.
Also, most of you have 2 cameras in your pockets right now. Last time I checked, I couldn't turn my iphone camera 'off' either. Who's to say its not recording everything I do while its in sleep mode?!
daedalus-templarius wrote: Also, most of you have 2 cameras in your pockets right now. Last time I checked, I couldn't turn my iphone camera 'off' either. Who's to say its not recording everything I do while its in sleep mode?!
Your phone's camera could be recording you right now, simply as a consequence of not letting you physically disconnect the camera from its power source. But if you buy the Xbox one, this is not a what-if: the Kinect is explicitly recording you at all times, so that it knows if you say "Xbox on".
gasp!
I guess I didn't realize that parsing sound and recording sound were the same things; all those skype calls talking about dota must be living on server somewhere maliciously.
daedalus-templarius wrote: Also, most of you have 2 cameras in your pockets right now. Last time I checked, I couldn't turn my iphone camera 'off' either. Who's to say its not recording everything I do while its in sleep mode?!
Your phone's camera could be recording you right now, simply as a consequence of not letting you physically disconnect the camera from its power source. But if you buy the Xbox one, this is not a what-if: the Kinect is explicitly recording you at all times, so that it knows if you say "Xbox on".
The thing is though your phone camera may not necessarily be connected to the internet and it must be boring watching your pocket instead of your living room.
Why should I have to check in every 24 hours when I haven't played a multiplayer game in half a year? Asking customers to do that is utterly ridiculous, anything that restricts access to the system can only be bad for them in the long run.
It's a DRM check. It specifically checks and updates what games you're allowed to play to make sure you didn't do something evil and nefarious like lend the game to a friend or sell it. Without a 24 hour check, you could do something dastardly like sell the game and maybe play it for a few days after the fact (assuming that the rumor of needing the disc only for installs and initial verification is true).
Who exactly is benefitting from having to install every game on the hard drive? It seems like that's the root cause of a lot of these problems. Has anyone ever said "wow, I sure want to play a game, but I can't be assed to get up and put it in the disk drive!"
ExNoctemNacimur wrote:I'm not sure if this has been discussed earlier, but does the kinect always on thing bother anyone?
They released a description of their privacy settings on Game Informer yesterday, it seems you actually have the capability to turn it off!
When the system is off, it’s only listening for the single voice command -- “Xbox On,” and you can even turn that feature off too.
Nobody wants a Kinect. Get that through your collective skulls, Microsoft. There's a reason it's been almost entirely neglected by AAA gaming. Because it's worthless.
I like my kinect.
Developers clearly don't. It's a gimmicky feature that at this point is just needlessly inflating the price.
MandalorynOranj wrote: Nobody wants a Kinect. Get that through your collective skulls, Microsoft. There's a reason it's been almost entirely neglected by AAA gaming. Because it's worthless.
I like my kinect.
Developers clearly don't. It's a gimmicky feature that at this point is just needlessly inflating the price.
According to Wikipedia, these are the numbers for 360 Games: Total: 1700: 1535 Xbox 360, 133 Kinect, 32 Kinect Compatible (Retail: 959 Xbox 360, 115 Kinect, 28 Kinect Compatible. XBLA: 576 Xbox 360, 18 Kinect, 4 Kinect Compatible.) So, 1 in 12 games require Kinect, 1 in 10 games use Kinect. And quite a few of these are games from 'big' developers. You don't like the Kinect, you may not like the games for it, but there's plenty of people who do.
It's great for kids / family games, and there's plenty of fun games for it otherwise. Plus the support for other games is good - the Kinect Support in ME3 and Halo: CE Anniversary was good times. Also - Gunstringer is hilariously brilliant.
Oh - and the biggest thing people wanted from the Kinect before (Xbox On), is now one of the biggest complaints... Always the way isn't it?
Meanwhile, in Forbes Magazine, noted bastion of conspiracy theorists and drug crazed lunatics.
The Guardian is reporting that the government has had essentially unfettered access to the servers of most of the biggest American tech companies since the end of the Bush administration.
This access began in 2007 and includes tech giants like Google, Yahoo, Apple, Facebook and Microsoft.
Under the program—dubbed PRISM—the government can access all of your photos, email correspondence, stored data, and basically whatever else you do using these online services. The program has continued to this date under the Obama administration, according to the Guardian.
The British newspaper is reporting that the leaked PRISM document—a top secret Power Point presentation—is dated April 2013.
As it happens, the first company PRISM tapped for the program was Power Point creator Microsoft way back in 2007.
Microsoft has been lobbing about the deliciously ironic slogan “Your privacy is our priority” in the wake of criticism over its new Xbox One and its inclusion of the Kinect 2.0, which measures everything from motion to heart-rate and sends that information to Microsoft’s servers.
Much has been made recently of the limitations Microsoft is imposing on used games and an always-online (or nearly always-online) internet connection—revelations that have only been compounded by a recent blog post by the tech company.
Allowing publishers to determine which games are permitted for resale and requiring an online verification once every 24 hours are shockingly anti-consumer practices, of course, but the problems with the Xbox One go much deeper.
Until news broke on the PRISM program, fears that data recorded using the Kinect 2.0 would violate the privacy of Xbox One users were mostly vague.
Now that the NSA has apparently unlimited access to Microsoft servers, the notion of a camera in our homes watching us at all times and storing biometric data on Microsoft servers is downright appalling.
Microsoft has said that the Kinect can be turned off, but once it’s up and running how many consumers will actually turn the thing off?
Perhaps more will now—now that we’ve glimpsed just how far the national security state has reached into our private lives, and how a device like the Xbox One could make more personal data than ever before available to government agencies.
Now I know Eric Kain, he's a good dude, and while he leans free market and consumer rights, he's pretty balanced politically, so this isn't one of the rare whackos that writes for Forbes. (Every company has at least one)
Ahead of E3 2013, Microsoft released an official statement clarifying some of the most debatable aspects of Xbox One.
In that statement, Microsoft clarified Xbox One used games trading and sharing policy for the first time.
"Trade-in and resell your disc-based gamesToday, some gamers choose to sell their old disc-based games back for cash and credit," the document reads. "We designed Xbox One so game publishers can enable you to trade in your games at participating retailers. Microsoft does not charge a platform fee to retailers, publishers, or consumers for enabling transfer of these games."
"Give your games to friends: Xbox One is designed so game publishers can enable you to give your disc-based games to your friends. There are no fees charged as part of these transfers. There are two requirements: you can only give them to people who have been on your friends list for at least 30 days and each game can only be given once."
Microsoft is giving publisher to support those features on a per-title basis. "Third party publishers may opt in or out of supporting game resale and may set up business terms or transfer fees with retailers,” the company explained. "Microsoft does not receive any compensation as part of this. In addition, third party publishers can enable you to give games to friends. Loaning or renting games won't be available at launch, but we are exploring the possibilities with our partners."
The prism story has also been reported by the Washington Post as well and they're known for tinfoil hat conspiracies for decades... like the Watergate scandal.
If you're outside of the US and use any of these companies or in the US and communicate via them internationally, the US government has been intercepting your communications "just in case".
As for the used games, they've simply passed the buck. The publishers are the ones complaining about lost profits from used games and now they'll be in control of access to used games? That's like giving McDonalds control over what Wendy's and Burger King can do.
MandalorynOranj wrote: Nobody wants a Kinect. Get that through your collective skulls, Microsoft. There's a reason it's been almost entirely neglected by AAA gaming. Because it's worthless.
I like my kinect.
Developers clearly don't. It's a gimmicky feature that at this point is just needlessly inflating the price.
According to Wikipedia, these are the numbers for 360 Games:
Total: 1700: 1535 Xbox 360, 133 Kinect, 32 Kinect Compatible (Retail: 959 Xbox 360, 115 Kinect, 28 Kinect Compatible. XBLA: 576 Xbox 360, 18 Kinect, 4 Kinect Compatible.)
So, 1 in 12 games require Kinect, 1 in 10 games use Kinect.
And quite a few of these are games from 'big' developers.
You don't like the Kinect, you may not like the games for it, but there's plenty of people who do.
It's great for kids / family games, and there's plenty of fun games for it otherwise.
Plus the support for other games is good - the Kinect Support in ME3 and Halo: CE Anniversary was good times.
Also - Gunstringer is hilariously brilliant.
Oh - and the biggest thing people wanted from the Kinect before (Xbox On), is now one of the biggest complaints... Always the way isn't it?
Ok I'm sorry, I may have gotten a bit overwhelmed. But you're right, I don't like it, and many if not most of their existing customers also don't. I still stand by my point that it should stay as an accessory and not be built-in to jack up the price. Also, just anecdotally, I've heard nothing but bad things about the voice commands in ME3.
I feel the Kinect, much like the Wii, had deceptive sales figures. There were people who liked it to be sure, but hardly enough for it to become the big thing Microsoft has turned it into.
Last night, Microsoft MSFT +1.6% dumped a pile of information into our laps about some of the more controversial specifics of the Xbox One. We heard confirmation about its practices for always on, used game resale, and game ownership in general. Some of the highlights:
- Your Xbox must check in via the internet once every 24 hours, if not, you won’t be able to play games
- It is up to publishers whether or not you can resell your games or gift them to friends
- Discs have nothing to do with ownership, and are only use for installation purposes. Games are simply licensed now
Microsoft Flashes Some Ankle On Xbox One Game Resale And Gifting Daniel Nye Griffiths Daniel Nye Griffiths Contributor
Sony Bringing A Boatload Of Games To E3 Dave Thier Dave Thier Contributor
'The Last of Us' Review: Lone Wolf And Cub Paul Tassi Paul Tassi Contributor
As I read through this list and the expected internet outrage that followed, I had to wonder what Sony must be making of all this.
There are two options for Sony and the Playstation 4. They can march arm in arm with Microsoft backwards in time with practices that actually make gaming less accessible and fun, or reject all of it and possibly win the next console war before it’s even started.
Sony has been eerily silent about all of these issues to date, at least in any official capacity. Yes, in interviews they’ve given us supposed comforts like “no, the PS4 doesn’t need to be always on,” or “yes, the PS4 plays used games.” But both of those things don’t mean what they used to. You might also say given this new information that the Xbox One isn’t ALWAYS on, but it does have to be connected to the internet once a day. Microsoft will say even people with unstable internet can manage that, right? You could say the Xbox One DOES play used games, but “used games” does not mean what it once did because of everything simply being licensed now. So what’s Sony talking about here? I’m not convinced we can say for sure yet.
The truth is we don’t know the full scope of Sony’s plans, despite what they’ve said in interviews so far. The definition of always on and used games have changed so drastically, a sentence or two about either isn’t enough of an explanation. I don’t think we can officially rule out that Sony could have similar policies to Microsoft, in some form or another, but we can hope that isn’t the case.
Sony needs to be learning from what’s happening with the Xbox One right now. The console, as it exists, simply has more cons than pros at this point, something that is almost unfathomable for a new system. It used to be a lot more simple. This is a new video game console. It will play better looking versions of all your favorite games, and give you some cool new ones too. Buy it.
And people did.
But what if all the new features actually became reasons not to buy a new console instead? Yes, it still promises better games, but there are a ton of caveats attached now. In order to access these games, you must put up with a laundry list of restrictions like the ones listed above. Something that’s supposed to be a benefit, the Kinect, is now being seen as an almost Orwellian listening device that much be attached to the console at all times.
So really, what are the selling points for the Xbox One at this point? There are its TV tuning abilities via Kinect control, but as cool as those were in the reveal demo, when you really sat down and thought about it, are you wasting that much time pressing the “input” button on your remote control? Is this solving a problem that actually exists? I don’t believe so.
So what we’re really left with is games, and we haven’t seen many so far. Microsoft’s two big staple franchises are Halo and Gears of War, and I would argue those are the only two that could actually sell systems on their own. The rest of its top titles are shared with Sony, even Call of Duty, though Microsoft seemed to forget that when they made it the grand finale of their Xbox One announcement. They couldn’t even keep Bungie around, and that studio’s next blockbuster, Destiny, is being showcased at the PS4 event during E3.
All of this leaves Sony in a very unique position. If they simply stick with the tenets of the video game industry that have been the norm for years, offline play, used game selling/buying and physical game ownership, they could see a large amount of Microsoft loyalists flood to the PS4 simply because they want a console that can play games easily and without restriction. They’d only have to sacrifice a handful of exclusives to do so. Sony could even promote digital distribution for those who like the convenience, so long as they kept physical discs as an option when it comes to game ownership.
I own both a PS3 and an Xbox 360, and have been called a fanboy of both brands at one time or another. But given the current state of things, the Playstation 4 appears to be shaping up to be the better gaming machine. Sony’s exclusives are more numerous and generally of higher quality than Microsoft’s. Sony touted their technical specs in their reveal while Microsoft masked theirs with mumbo jumbo, implying Sony may have the more powerful machine.
Rather, Microsoft’s ace in the hole was supposed to be that the Xbox One was a glorious “entertainment box.” A revolutionary device that everyone would want to have in their living room. But so far, we haven’t seen it do anything that a combination of a cable box and a PS4 can’t do, other than adding gesture and voice control. Perhaps there are more aspects to it we haven’t seen, but being able to switch inputs by talking to your TV or seeing your fantasy sports stats onscreen is not enough to declare an entertainment revolution.
Microsoft Reveals The Xbox One
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Microsoft Reveals The Xbox One
Microsoft Reveals The Xbox One
Microsoft promises the Xbox One will be more than just a game console, but a "living room" with a TV tuner and cable box. Users will be able to switch between watching TV and gaming instantly through the Kinect device.
When it’s all said and done, if Sony rejects the sorts of policies that Microsoft officially put forth last night, they might win the console war, at least in the near future. I have a hard time believing that many people will buy an Xbox One over a PS4 simply to play Halo and Gears of War, or for Kinect’s TV tie-in abilities. And even those advantages might be dramatically outweighed by the internet connection and game ownership policies that so many have claimed to despise.
I don’t know if Sony will seize on this opportunity. It might be too late, and the system has simply been designed to work similar to the way the Xbox One does. In that case, if the two systems end up having more or less the same policies, then it’s just going to be a free-for-all where consumers have two pretty similar choices in front of them, sort of like this past generation. Only this time, consumers will lose as both major companies have colluded in order to eliminate true game ownership or the ability to play offline. Should that happen, maybe Nintendo might finally see some wind in the Wii U’s sales, provided it’s released any worthwhile games by then. Perhaps we haven’t given Nintendo enough credit for staying true to the traditional practices of old.
At this point, the Xbox One seems to be fumbling so badly, it almost seems like Sony would be remiss to not seize on the opportunity. Microsoft’s steps forward appear as backward movement to many, and Sony could win by simply standing still and watching its biggest competitor sink under its own weight. Or they may tie their fortunes together, and it will be the consumers who drown in higher prices and obtrusive restrictions.
Both companies are staying mum until E3 now. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.
Cant take the article seriously because it's ended with 'staying mum' instead of the accepted 'keeping mum' or even 'keeping schtum'. Also the fact it has the weird hyperlinks still in it.
The whole account things seems to suggest you're not actually restricted as long as you're willing to play on the owner's account.
Also second hand xbones will be worth alot more because they'll have the games installed on them, without the clutter of the actual discs. Of course it still requires a free account of the ten you're allowed. Maybe we'll see a new market emerge over the next couple years of 'Fully loaded' xbones being sold around or even, ironically, rented .
But certainly the fact that it can and does track everything doesn't mean people use it for nefarious purposes! It is obvious that the goal is to help the people they are spying on recording with EULA permissions!
Am I doing the asininity right?
I am confused sometimes by the folk that think "just because they can does not mean they will" idiocy.
Why should I have to check in every 24 hours when I haven't played a multiplayer game in half a year? Asking customers to do that is utterly ridiculous, anything that restricts access to the system can only be bad for them in the long run.
It's a DRM check. It specifically checks and updates what games you're allowed to play to make sure you didn't do something evil and nefarious like lend the game to a friend or sell it. Without a 24 hour check, you could do something dastardly like sell the game and maybe play it for a few days after the fact (assuming that the rumor of needing the disc only for installs and initial verification is true).
its also fething dumb
I dont even have my Xbox connected to the internet. My house doesnt have wireless so If I want internet on my XBox I need to unplug my computers internet cable and cross the room with it (taking it under my sofa and a table) and connect it to my XBox and then after the update connect it all back.
Why should I have to check in every 24 hours when I haven't played a multiplayer game in half a year? Asking customers to do that is utterly ridiculous, anything that restricts access to the system can only be bad for them in the long run.
It's a DRM check. It specifically checks and updates what games you're allowed to play to make sure you didn't do something evil and nefarious like lend the game to a friend or sell it. Without a 24 hour check, you could do something dastardly like sell the game and maybe play it for a few days after the fact (assuming that the rumor of needing the disc only for installs and initial verification is true).
its also fething dumb
I dont even have my Xbox connected to the internet. My house doesnt have wireless so If I want internet on my XBox I need to unplug my computers internet cable and cross the room with it (taking it under my sofa and a table) and connect it to my XBox and then after the update connect it all back.
I agree that it's stupid. Apparently my sarcasm didn't go come across clearly; I figured using colorful language like "nefarious" and "dastardly" would be enough.
MandalorynOranj wrote: Nobody wants a Kinect. Get that through your collective skulls, Microsoft. There's a reason it's been almost entirely neglected by AAA gaming. Because it's worthless.
I like my kinect.
Developers clearly don't. It's a gimmicky feature that at this point is just needlessly inflating the price.
According to Wikipedia, these are the numbers for 360 Games:
Total: 1700: 1535 Xbox 360, 133 Kinect, 32 Kinect Compatible (Retail: 959 Xbox 360, 115 Kinect, 28 Kinect Compatible. XBLA: 576 Xbox 360, 18 Kinect, 4 Kinect Compatible.)
So, 1 in 12 games require Kinect, 1 in 10 games use Kinect.
And quite a few of these are games from 'big' developers.
You don't like the Kinect, you may not like the games for it, but there's plenty of people who do.
It's great for kids / family games, and there's plenty of fun games for it otherwise.
Plus the support for other games is good - the Kinect Support in ME3 and Halo: CE Anniversary was good times.
Also - Gunstringer is hilariously brilliant.
Oh - and the biggest thing people wanted from the Kinect before (Xbox On), is now one of the biggest complaints... Always the way isn't it?
I think the point people are making though is that they shouldn't be making kinect a requirement for the system to work. Just b/c you (and I) enjoy our Kinect does not mean that ever person who plays XBox wants to be required to have a kinect. For example what if your Kinect breaks and you can't afford a couple hundred bucks to replace it for a while... well, too bad.. no xbox for you! That is the problem as I see it.
Add all of the undesirable features to the unavoidable legacy of the 360, and if I buy it it won't be until it has been out at least a year. I want to see if this generation will be as hardy as the X-Box, or as frail as the 360. A binary device could double the chances of RROD.
I hadn't thought about the kinect 2.0 breaking and its effect. I'm on my 7th xbox (only had to pay for one repair though due to a store warranty and the xbox one) so I don't have much faith in microsoft physical product reliability. At least in this generation, if your hard drive or kinect broke, you could still play mostly in the fashion that you're used to but that won't be the case with the Xbone.
I guess ultimately, like the PS3 and 360, there won't be that much difference between buying either machine for next gen. They will probably both have great games.
That being said, I'm almost certain to go with the Sony machine for the following reasons
- The 360 was without doubt the worst-built console I have ever owned - and I've had most machines going back to the Atari 2600! I was an early adopter and I suppose got 'stung' by the fact that MS had rushed the machine to sale, with low quality components and an atrocious failure rate. It was just badly made, and contrasts with the PS3 which was solid and well built.
- This 'you can't buy used games!' followed by a hasty list of concessions when the peasants started to pound at the gates is a reminder of what will be in wait for us should MS ever monopolise the industry. Right now we are lucky enough to have a choice, and that's reason enough to choose either the Sony or even Nintendo machine. I know Sony isn't perfect, but it's a matter of degrees.
It's also looking likely now that the Sony machine will be cheaper (I suppose if you can bear the loss of Kinect or a sky box - which I certainly can!) which really makes it a bit of a no-brainer for me.
daedalus-templarius wrote: I can't wait for Sony to announce their 'used games' policy, and have it be exactly like Microsofts; because it totally will be.
Ah the meltdowns.
Just so I understand you, are you saying you're in favor of this sort of policy?
daedalus-templarius wrote: I can't wait for Sony to announce their 'used games' policy, and have it be exactly like Microsofts; because it totally will be.
Ah the meltdowns.
Just so I understand you, are you saying you're in favor of this sort of policy?
I think he is just a Xbone fan boy who can't grasp that Microsoft made a huge error so he has to re-spin reality to make it a good thing.
daedalus-templarius wrote: I can't wait for Sony to announce their 'used games' policy, and have it be exactly like Microsofts; because it totally will be.
Ah the meltdowns.
Just so I understand you, are you saying you're in favor of this sort of policy?
I think he is just a Xbone fan boy who can't grasp that Microsoft made a huge error so he has to re-spin reality to make it a good thing.
Or he's pointing out the fact that Sony has not really announced anything. They've not shown anything substantial, just rattled off lists of games and showed off some games.
daedalus-templarius wrote: I can't wait for Sony to announce their 'used games' policy, and have it be exactly like Microsofts; because it totally will be.
Ah the meltdowns.
Just so I understand you, are you saying you're in favor of this sort of policy?
I think he is just a Xbone fan boy who can't grasp that Microsoft made a huge error so he has to re-spin reality to make it a good thing.
lol, yea, you got me.
Not just pointing out the obvious.
No, blind fanboy re-spining MS errors... or something.
While I don't buy used games, or sell my own, I think their new policy is pretty gakky.
Or he's pointing out the fact that Sony has not really announced anything. They've not shown anything substantial, just rattled off lists of games and showed off some games.
MandalorynOranj wrote: Sorry, it can be tough to read sarcasm over text. I wasn't sure if you were saying you were actually looking forward to it in like a troll-y way.
Am I looking forward to all the tears and meltdowns? Yes.
Am I looking forward to the actual implementation by console makers and 3rd parties? No.
Call me an optimist, but I don't think Sony will be as stupid as Microsoft. Just because one company goes off the deep-end doesn't mean they both have to. I hope.
If I'm stuck with a wiiu as my next gen console wouldn't that just bugger all.
Eh. I'll be shocked if Sony doesn't end up adopting functionally the same scheme for used games. This smacks of something game publishers are keen on as much or even far more than Microsoft itself. They've been harping about the lost revenue from used game sales for years now. It would not shock me at all if this was an X-Bone "feature" due more to their input than anything Microsoft dreamed up on their own.
Sony does have a strong reason not to do it. They get a lot of business in East Asia and most people there don't have the internet connectivity to support the XBone's scheme (and Microsoft doesn't care cause they get near no business out of the US and Europe). There's also the issue of how some of this is probably dictated by XBL more than the publishers themselves.
Sony could of course create a system where the publishers or they themselves can selectively enforce such a feature.
SilverMK2 wrote: I wonder how many lost salea pirates will cost them if no one buys the systems?
Do you really think that's likely? They know their industry. The interwebz will Chicken Little it up until they see something shiny they want, and then they won't be able to click 'Buy' fast enough.
SilverMK2 wrote: I wonder how many lost salea pirates will cost them if no one buys the systems?
Do you really think that's likely? They know their industry. The interwebz will Chicken Little it up until they see something shiny they want, and then they won't be able to click 'Buy' fast enough.
More of a point on the blame falling on 'pirates' regardless of the true cause than anything else. Though itdoea pain me that people have such a low level of willpower over shiny things.
I think the ideal thing would be for some third company (i discount the wii) to step in with an actual games console - perhaps based around a mini pc like the proposed steam system and take the market share.
Neither of those would be shocking or new and frankly Sony is probably doing the same thing anyway. Why do you think Destiny is being revealed on the PS4 first rather than the XBone, or Ghost on the XBone instead of the PS4?
Really the real winners in this mess will be the publishers. Which sucks cause I hate them the most.
LordofHats wrote: Really the real winners in this mess will be the publishers. Which sucks cause I hate them the most.
This is a good point. I'd love to see a model where the developers had more power than the publishers.
With the advent of digital distribution, that's somewhat possible. Of course, publishers and the console developers who profit off them do everything they can to ensure publishers stay strong (it's kind of like how the music industry doesn't need industrialized publishers anymore, but they are doing everything they can to make themselves look relevant, even at the cost of destroying their own industry). On an open platform like the PC, there's a lot more freedom for developers and self-publishing. Still, because of the money involved, you need the financial aid of a publisher in order to make quality (I mean this in terms of the resources used, not the game itself), Triple A titles.
500$ in the US...500€ in the EU? That's a whopping 25% difference in price! Just reference, fellow US dakkanites, 500€ is 660$.
And to top it off, EU can't use 70% of its features anyway. Microsoft has always been disregarding the Asian market and now starts to troll the EU market as well? Dick move.
Gj Microsoft, how about you take that money and shove it right in your greedy little poop shoot? -_-
On the upside: my fiancee just decided to NOT buy one
We've known since respawn signed with EA as they were signed to produce games on next gen console and PC. Unfortunately it'll probably be windows live *sigh* I find it odd that these are the 'exclusives' they touted. Some of those games are on PC, some already exist, and a few are on 360 (Titan Fall is slated for a 360 release).
A snip from forbes summing up my thoughts on the price well:
Microsoft dropped a bombshell at its Xbox One press conference today. It came on all of a sudden, without a big flashing number or display. It hung in the air just the same. The Xbox One will retail at $499 when it releases in November, and that could prove a very dangerous price for Microsoft’s new console.
That number is so dangerous to Microsoft because it won’t play with casuals, especially not in year one. It is a price aimed directly at the core gaming community. Hardcore gamers are the only people who spend that much money on new consoles — they’re the ones who need to experience the biggest, newest games, no matter what the cost, and they’re the ones who can prop up a system until it grabs a large enough install base. But they’re also the people who have been most vocal about their displeasure with Microsoft Xbox One’s used games policies. To say that the Xbox One is unpopular in the forum communities right now would be an understatement.
At a lower price, Microsoft might have been able to focus on the casual consumer, interested in fantasy football and TV integration, but less concerned about DRM and the philosophical implications of always-online. That’s where it seemed the company was heading — building a console for a broad audience that would finally take the games system from a niche piece of hardware to a ubiquitous part of the home entertainment system. With a lower price, or a subscription price, that could have been possible.
Last week, analyst Michael Pachter predicted the machine would cost $399 based on the shelf price of the parts, and even that seemed a little pricey — I assumed that Microsoft would be taking the hit in order to tap a broader market and find its way into more people’s homes. Sony ‘s PS3 launched at $599, now widely regarded as a colossal mistake.
At $499, this still feels niche. Most users will wait until the price drops, or the machine proves itself in some other way — neither perspective is very helpful to Microsoft. At $499, it is going to need hardcore gamers, and it’s going to have to fight to get them now. The ball is in Sony’s court. If it can beat that price, it will launch with a major advantage.
If both machines are this expensive, however, the industry could be in trouble.
It shouldn't be anyway. I know a guy who brags about running Crysis 1 on ultra high settings (everything maxed) with 200 FPS. The human eye only process at 40-50 frames and most monitors can't refresh that fast either so welcome to pointless land
US$500 (£420, €380), €500 (US$665), £430 (US$670).
When most of the 'super features' for TV and game integration it's shouting about to make it so great, and so it'll integrate so amazingly into your home theatre system won't work in the EU (or hell, anywhere not america), what are they giving us to make up for this, and to account for the £110 price increase.
My problem is - the PS4 doesn't hold any exlcusives to draw me, and the exclusive in series such as Halo on the Xbox, that will be continued on the XBO, I want to continue.
Using Halo as an example, I'm 8 games, 2 series and half a dozen or so books in, and I kinda want to see how the story ends... that won't be possible on the PS4.
Obviously I won't be getting the XBO at release anyway and will wait for a price drop... but yeah...
why xbox one? I think xbox 720 or xbox 3 sounds way better. Another title i would love to see it called is the xbox E, which stands for Xbox Evolved! Duh duh duh! doesn't that sound awesome. And as for the halo show by mr spielberg, that is just pure win I hope
I think Titan Falls looks pretty good....... For a 360 game. Still, it looks like it could be ALOT of fun.
However Compared with the battlefield 4 64 player stage show, it kinda looks a little quaint. 'Aww look at pwetty mechs shooting the non-deswucktable buildings, aww look at the twenty four players and the tiny map, soo cute'.
I cringed badly, then chuckled, when the pretty halo fembot said 'Halo 5 will be the first in the series........... To deliver blistering 60 FPS'...... Wow, still my beating heart, woopty doo.... Yeah i'm being sarcastic...
Perkustin wrote: I think Titan Falls looks pretty good....... For a 360 game. Still, it looks like it could be ALOT of fun.
However Compared with the battlefield 4 64 player stage show, it kinda looks a little quaint. 'Aww look at pwetty mechs shooting the non-deswucktable buildings, aww look at the twenty four players and the tiny map, soo cute'.
I cringed badly, then chuckled, when the pretty halo fembot said 'Halo 5 will be the first in the series........... To deliver blistering 60 FPS'...... Wow, still my beating heart, woopty doo.... Yeah i'm being sarcastic...
Perkustin wrote: I think Titan Falls looks pretty good....... For a 360 game. Still, it looks like it could be ALOT of fun.
However Compared with the battlefield 4 64 player stage show, it kinda looks a little quaint. 'Aww look at pwetty mechs shooting the non-deswucktable buildings, aww look at the twenty four players and the tiny map, soo cute'.
I cringed badly, then chuckled, when the pretty halo fembot said 'Halo 5 will be the first in the series........... To deliver blistering 60 FPS'...... Wow, still my beating heart, woopty doo.... Yeah i'm being sarcastic...
I'm with this guy, almost.
Titan falls looked pretty boring. Another sci fi shooter, with elements of brink/mirrors edge. Also throw in some dropped in mechs ala blacklight. It doesn't seem revolutionary as much as it just seems like catching up to current ideas. What I wouldn't give for an FPS with fresh elements. Naysayers be damned, but I thought syndicate was a very stylish and refreshing attempt at FPS's. It had it's problems I guess, but it was still fresh.
Halo 5 looks like another Halo. What I'll never understand is people spewing all sorts of hatred for the CoD franchise when Halo does the same thing. Oh well.
Killer instinct made me pause in thinking if I'd get a xbone, but only when someone on my facebook mentioned it. After seeing it in action, it kind of looks like another street fighter, and the announcer voice really struck me as a "Remember my voice? Buy this game because you remember my voice!". I think I went into a bit bitter because that same facebook post had people talking about how awesome the series was when they never even played it back in the day.
So far indifferent about the whole situation. Still not convinced to buy a xbone at all, still perfectly happy gaming on my PC.
Necroshea wrote: Halo 5 looks like another Halo. What I'll never understand is people spewing all sorts of hatred for the CoD franchise when Halo does the same thing. Oh well.
For me, at least, it's the plot and the universe that keeps me hooked. Too bad I'll be missing this one, at least I've got the last Kilo Five book to look forward to.
Titan falls looked pretty boring. Another sci fi shooter, with elements of brink/mirrors edge. Also throw in some dropped in mechs ala blacklight. It doesn't seem revolutionary as much as it just seems like catching up to current ideas. What I wouldn't give for an FPS with fresh elements. Naysayers be damned, but I thought syndicate was a very stylish and refreshing attempt at FPS's. It had it's problems I guess, but it was still fresh.
Agreed, mostly.
I remember first playing Crackdown on the 360 at a friends house, i played it for hours. It felt truly 'next gen'; the way the game was structured, the way you levelled up. The insane mobility and freedom of movement and just the pure emergence in the gameplay, do it your way dude. In alot of ways, for me, the 360 gen didn't quite deliver on Crackdown's promise. Sure there have been some great games but alot of their DNA remains from the PS2 era. We're still seeing games with loads of set pieces, eight hour campaigns and levels that feel like movie sets with lots of smoke and mirrors to fool you. In games with 'choices' it still just feels like the developers is running constant damage control in order to take away the impact. In Deus Ex 2 in '04 (i kinda liked it, sue me) i remember Chad Dumier telling me that my 'cavalier attitude to human life was disgusting' after i mowed down everyone in the police HQ (an optional activity, which serves no in-game purpose), i thought 'that's pretty darn neato!'. That was just the choice and the consequence all handled in one scene with one line of dialogue, However in '12 it wouldn't be a gross exaggeration to say that's about as far as Mass effect 3 went.
The thing that impressed me about the Battlefield 4 footage was the use of the stunning technology to enrich gameplay, collapse the road from underground, destroy the skyscraper, it all added to the gameplay.
Necroshea wrote: Halo 5 looks like another Halo. What I'll never understand is people spewing all sorts of hatred for the CoD franchise when Halo does the same thing. Oh well.
For me, at least, it's the plot and the universe that keeps me hooked. Too bad I'll be missing this one, at least I've got the last Kilo Five book to look forward to.
Same, I don't really play multiplayer for things like Halo and Gears, it's all about the story for me.
Though I understand Necrosheas point - the only redeeming feature for me is the single player, whenever I've come into contact with CoDs single player it's been very lacking.
I lost interest in Halo around the time of Reach. Still played 4 and all that, but it just got boring at that point. Two things really stuck out to me as annoying.
The idea that MC has "luck" as a thing. That's just...stupid.
The shift from shooting fleshy aliens to robots. I find absolutely nothing redeeming about shooting wave upon wave of robots.
$500 is steep, but it is basically a really powerful PC I guess.
Games look awesome.
Enjoyed the press conference.
$500 is steep, but it is basically a really powerful PC I guess, except for all the benefits of a PC...
Well, I already own a monster PC for all the other benefits of owning a PC. Like running photoshop, haha
If you have a powerful PC, there's not much reason to buy an XBone then anyway. Almost everything worth playing is going multi-platform these days, especially Xbox titles. And most mid-end and higher gaming PCs pack more than enough power to do what the XBone will be able to do anyway. Spend a couple hundred dollars upgrading whatever may need to be upgraded, and just use that instead.
LordofHats wrote:It shouldn't be anyway. I know a guy who brags about running Crysis 1 on ultra high settings (everything maxed) with 200 FPS. The human eye only process at 40-50 frames and most monitors can't refresh that fast either so welcome to pointless land
This is false. The human eye can recognize upwards of several hundred frames per second, and there is no known limit to how many FPS the eye can actually process. The eye/brain doesn't actually process information in an "FPS" kind of way.
All that aside, $500 as the launch price is pretty ridiculous in today's market. I'd consider anything at $400 to be pushing it. Let's hope Sony learned from their mistakes this time.
I really dislike this direction that console developers are going in, trying to turn their game consoles into full blown PCs, at a cost that is rolled on to the consumer. The reason you buy a console in the first place is to avoid the complexity and cost of a PC.
If you have a powerful PC, there's not much reason to buy an XBone then anyway. Almost everything worth playing is going multi-platform these days, especially Xbox titles. And most mid-end and higher gaming PCs pack more than enough power to do what the XBone will be able to do anyway. Spend a couple hundred dollars upgrading whatever may need to be upgraded, and just use that instead.
Nah.
I like sitting on my couch.
Don't bring up the tired "oh but you can build a pc for your couch downstairs so you don't need a console" either, because I don't care.
Sony just confirmed. Disk based games and no online requirements. Microsoft had better sit and have a think. I think sony's going to run away with this gen if they don't
When I said Disc based I meant in the sense your disc was used for more than a 1 time install.
It seemed pretty clear cut to me what he said, I may however be considered naive at times, Preferring to think people mean what they say not half talking.
I figured Sony was going to jump on board the gakky DRM train, I am glad I was proven wrong!
Now I can only hope MS takes this backlash seriously and changes their direction somewhat. Obviously the 3rd party devs aren't THAT serious about all this DRM, since Sony is going to get away without doing it.
I think it's safe to say that with no always-on requirement, no used game restrictions, AND a price tag $100 cheaper, Sony put the nail in Microsoft's coffin this generation.
MandalorynOranj wrote: I think it's safe to say that with no always-on requirement, no used game restrictions, AND a price tag $100 cheaper, Sony put the nail in Microsoft's coffin this generation.
...
The consoles aren't even out yet. And let's not forget that people were saying that the Playstation Move was going to be cheaper than Kinect...
MandalorynOranj wrote: I think it's safe to say that with no always-on requirement, no used game restrictions, AND a price tag $100 cheaper, Sony put the nail in Microsoft's coffin this generation.
...
The consoles aren't even out yet. And let's not forget that people were saying that the Playstation Move was going to be cheaper than Kinect...
MandalorynOranj wrote: I think it's safe to say that with no always-on requirement, no used game restrictions, AND a price tag $100 cheaper, Sony put the nail in Microsoft's coffin this generation.
...
The consoles aren't even out yet. And let's not forget that people were saying that the Playstation Move was going to be cheaper than Kinect...
MandalorynOranj wrote: I think it's safe to say that with no always-on requirement, no used game restrictions, AND a price tag $100 cheaper, Sony put the nail in Microsoft's coffin this generation.
...
The consoles aren't even out yet. And let's not forget that people were saying that the Playstation Move was going to be cheaper than Kinect...
The prices were both announced tonight at E3.
I'm quite aware of that, thanks.
What you did not seem to grasp is that saying "Sony put the nail in Microsoft's coffin this generation" when the consoles are not even out yet is asinine.
not_u wrote:
Are you being serious right now?
Yes. There were a notable number of people here and elsewhere who insisted that the Playstation Move was going to be cheaper than the Kinect, refusing to take into consideration the fact that each Move required its own controller.
DA's Forever wrote: Exactly, I think Microsoft have come to far to back pedal, yell we were just kidding, and have us all be happy with it.
They better! I'd think it would be very foolish if they didn't...
Well, it's kind of a PR nightmare at this point. Sony just dropped the mic on them hard, and they're left with either continuing to run with their current platform, which is antagonistic as hell towards their consumer base, and raises a hell of a lot of eyebrows concerning personal privacy and such; or essentially going back on everything they've said up until now, showing a massive loss of confidence in their own product, and looking weak as hell.
DA's Forever wrote: Exactly, I think Microsoft have come to far to back pedal, yell we were just kidding, and have us all be happy with it.
They better! I'd think it would be very foolish if they didn't...
Well, it's kind of a PR nightmare at this point. Sony just dropped the mic on them hard, and they're left with either continuing to run with their current platform, which is antagonistic as hell towards their consumer base, and raises a hell of a lot of eyebrows concerning personal privacy and such; or essentially going back on everything they've said up until now, showing a massive loss of confidence in their own product, and looking weak as hell.
What you did not seem to grasp is that saying "Sony put the nail in Microsoft's coffin this generation" when the consoles are not even out yet is asinine.
as·i·nine
/ˈasəˌnīn/
Adjective
Extremely stupid or foolish.
If you want to call someone a complete stupid while sounding smart yourself, asinine is your go-to word.
Asinine derives from the Latin asinus. Guess what that means? Bonus: Asinine takes stupid up a notch. There's someone so delightful in the double-edged quality of asinine behavior. Talking trash about your boss is stupid. Talking trash about your boss in an email they're cc'd on...that's asinine.
Hmmm interesting, I see some same individual still gets away with being ****ing rude, with like what, 50+ entries of that word being used by same person?
Just how mods? how :3
Whether something is out yet or not is totally irrelevant. In business, and to the customers, the day the price is announced is usually the day
they decide on the consle to stick with. Because y'know with the "not seem to grasp or not bs" , the pre hype with the game release list, and machine specification is already a deciding factor to the customer.
Now all they need is the price vs ^ to make the final judgement.
Or, why not, I strongly welcome a bet between us to see if Sony (me) or Xbox (you) wins.
Lets bet some forge world stuff?
Sony looked at everything Microsoft was doing to screw their customers... and then didn't do it. They're at least giving the illusion that they give a damn about their customers, and that's really important.
I've never owned a Sony console in my life. The 360, to me, was the perfect gaming machine (mine only got RROD once and it was fixed quickly and for free). Microsoft left me in the gutter with the Xbone and, as things are looking now, Sony's reaching down to pull me up.
MandalorynOranj wrote: Sony looked at everything Microsoft was doing to screw their customers... and then didn't do it. They're at least giving the illusion that they give a damn about their customers, and that's really important.
I've never owned a Sony console in my life. The 360, to me, was the perfect gaming machine (mine only got RROD once and it was fixed quickly and for free). Microsoft left me in the gutter with the Xbone and, as things are looking now, Sony's reaching down to pull me up.
Putting it politely since there is an individual in this thread now who apparently still has an axe to grind:
If you feel that strongly, more power to you.
I'm left cold by the PS4 and would only end up buying it for Killzone most likely...but that's not enough of a draw. It's not enough to make me ditch the friends I regularly play with on Xbox Live, nor is it enough to make me really feel comfortable with a company whose track record of supporting online play/services is atrocious (at best).
I would kindly request however that you make a separate thread for the PS4 in that case, so that we don't need to hash out a "console war" when some individuals feel the necessity to crow about why X is better than Y or vice versa.
MandalorynOranj wrote: Sony looked at everything Microsoft was doing to screw their customers... and then didn't do it. They're at least giving the illusion that they give a damn about their customers, and that's really important.
I've never owned a Sony console in my life. The 360, to me, was the perfect gaming machine (mine only got RROD once and it was fixed quickly and for free). Microsoft left me in the gutter with the Xbone and, as things are looking now, Sony's reaching down to pull me up.
I think the thing is, companies are there to make profit, and customers know that.
The real deal is, to whom the customers feel like is more worthy to spend their money on.
Sony is not a new company, they have quality reputation for all of the company history, customers have zero reason for blind loyalty to stick with microsoft.
This isn't religion we are talking about, so Im not surprised that Sony is successful at reaching the ex-box (x-box pun lol) customers.
Putting it politely since there is an individual in this thread now who apparently still has an axe to grind:
Nah Kan, would it be far fetched illed logic to you if I simply tell you " I dont like people being rude" ?
There doesn't need to be any axes to grind, I mean, perhaps you understood this time, and said you'll "put it politely."
Now why is that a bad thing? its not!
Yes. There were a notable number of people here and elsewhere who insisted that the Playstation Move was going to be cheaper than the Kinect, refusing to take into consideration the fact that each Move required its own controller.
And you do realise this one thing is very minor when you look at both overall? Especially when you take into account something such as the preowned market and how its effected by both of these. The always online and how it works with the people without suitable internet for it, or even the paranoid; both are likely fewer these days but are parts of the market not to simply be stepped over. Then there's simply those who see excessive DRM as both of these as restrictive even insulting to them as a customer who will simply not buy it on morale grounds.
Yes, it's spendy. However, GW makes the best models and writes the coolest backstories. Also: Think about how many other new codex armies would kill to have a codex supplement? For me ( a 27 year 40k vet), I have not bought a book in 7 years for my Eldar. I'm fine with the prices on this hobby product.
From an objective view point as someone who has been unbiased in this whole console war crap, I see no points in favour of what they've decided to do with the XBO. I cannot fathom how this would attract new customers. The XBO's protection is somewhat needed I suppose given how easily people have even managed to pirate on consoles as well, especially with how similar an Xbox is to a computer, but the method they have chosen just stands to alienate their customer base and simply blame everyone instead of finding the issue and trying harder to guard against it. If it didn't work out for EA well on the PC where piracy is much more rampant, why should it work on a more limited format like a console?
So let me break it all down and simplify it.
I have a choice of buying two bags of oranges, right? First bag gives what it says simply, it's a bag and it has oranges in it. The second has an ink pack inside as well as an electronic tracker to ensure no one will steal it. Of course the price of this added security is thrown onto the price of the bag. Now for you to say the kinnect is cheaper is akin to saying well it has a cheaper brand of string holding it shut so you get your savings there. Then the real answers to the problem pop up, do you watch your customers closer and make them feel uneasy or do you simply budget to cover the losses?
This thread seems to devolving into a console fanboy war.
I'd suggest holding off on proclamations of failure or success, its just conjecture either way at this point.
Both consoles will likely sell well; its as if you think these companies just blindly rush tremendously expensive products to market without exhaustive research first.
MandalorynOranj wrote: I think it's safe to say that with no always-on requirement, no used game restrictions, AND a price tag $100 cheaper, Sony put the nail in Microsoft's coffin this generation.
Well I'm sorry you bought that PR speak hook, line and sinker. Yes, Playstation is not requiring any of that, but they didn't say developers won't. They will leave it to developers, which is exactly what Xbox is doing. Also, Xbox does not have used game restrictions. I'm not sure why that keeps getting parroted around when it was debunked like 2 weeks ago. Also, did you happen to notice how many games are always online or cloud-based at the PS reveal? Again, not sure why people go crazy over the online check-in when most games for both systems will need an internet connection that exceeds the basic check-in the Xbox requires.
As far as actual games, I'd say Sony has to do a lot better than what they showed tonight to beat MS. I didn't see anything super impressive that was a PS exclusive aside from The Order. They din't even show their big bloackbusters liek Uncharted and God of War. Pretty weak games offering to be honest.
I'd suggest holding off on proclamations of failure or success, its just conjecture either way at this point.
Both consoles will likely sell well; its as if you think these companies just blindly rush tremendously expensive products to market without exhaustive research first.
It's laughable to consider me a console fanboy. I'm just trying to think of this logically, yet get countered by sheer fanaticism.
Kanluwen wrote: Whatever. If you want to insist that the PS4 is better because of what they're currently stating?
Power to ya. Enjoy your PS4. But make a separate thread for it.
So you can completely dodge in there too? I'd rather not. If you read you'd notice I didn't even say PS4 once nor mentioned how great it apparently is.
I'd suggest holding off on proclamations of failure or success, its just conjecture either way at this point.
Both consoles will likely sell well; its as if you think these companies just blindly rush tremendously expensive products to market without exhaustive research first.
I have both consoles, tbh as a customer I have no interest in fanboy debates, at the end of the day, what interests me the most is...
having BOTH sides realize their pros and cons, why? this isnt about poo slinging match.
Its about admitting the faults of current generation machine, so they can improve on it the the future ones.
Then both sides will win right? ultimately, I think so :3
Xbox Cons: awful controller, expensive BUT reliable online experience. New to the console market wars, have high expectation for them.
Sony Cons: the continual success of consoles means games that have annoying hybrid aim assist functions... (well this goes for all consoles )
Free, but often laggy multiplayer game plays.
Since PS1, the customers expect Sony to be veterans at keeping its customer happy, less tolerance for mistakes.
I'd suggest holding off on proclamations of failure or success, its just conjecture either way at this point.
Both consoles will likely sell well; its as if you think these companies just blindly rush tremendously expensive products to market without exhaustive research first.
It's laughable to consider me a console fanboy. I'm just trying to think of this logically, yet get countered by sheer fanaticism.
Kanluwen wrote: Whatever. If you want to insist that the PS4 is better because of what they're currently stating?
Power to ya. Enjoy your PS4. But make a separate thread for it.
So you can completely dodge in there too? I'd rather not. If you read you'd notice I didn't even say PS4 once nor mentioned how great it apparently is.
Xbox Cons: awful controller, expensive BUT reliable online experience. New to the console market wars, have high expectation for them.
Sony Cons: the continual success of consoles means games that have annoying hybrid aim assist functions...
Free, but often laggy multiplayer game plays. Since PS1, the customers expect Sony to be veterans at keeping its customer happy,
less tolerance for mistakes.
Rule one folks, lets not start losing it over which console is best please, leave that to dedicated fanboy boards if you will. Dislike, anger direct at the companies for decision making etc is fine, taking pot shots at one another because you prefer console a over console b is not!
Also try to keep the Sony focused talk in the PS4 thread please.
As to myself, still can't make any judgement calls until the two launch line ups are out, but I will note as it was raised above.. I personally know seven folks from my and my brothers immediate gaming circles who are getting xboxone's regardless of price because they cannot stand dualshock controllers anymore, and rate the xbox controller miles ahead. From comments I've seen about the net, it would seem they are not alone.
Perhaps, but I don't think anyone did a comparable one during the PS3 life cycle, so hopefully is the best way to put it..
Of course I don't include myself in that group, I've used too many pads/consoles over the years to be worried about positions of trigger buttons.
Been watching a few videos this morning now I'm at home, at better frame rates, and damn I'm liking the look of Project Spark.
My only real concern is I hope 'use the smartglass to' doesn't equal 'smartglass is the only way to' as I'm not buying a bloody tablet or other tech with the system just to play certain games.
Xbox Cons: awful controller, expensive BUT reliable online experience. New to the console market wars, have high expectation for them.
Sony Cons: the continual success of consoles means games that have annoying hybrid aim assist functions... (well this goes for all consoles )
Free, but often laggy multiplayer game plays.
Since PS1, the customers expect Sony to be veterans at keeping its customer happy, less tolerance for mistakes.
Wat.
Xbox:
Xbox controller is generally regarded as the better one. (And I heartily agree, PS controllers give me cramps in about 15 minutes.) Xbox Live gold is not expensive no matter how you twist it and we get free games too now.
Sony: PS4 multiplayer will also cost money now. PSN has far worse security and is a lot less reliable all round.
That said, probably not going to get either one untill some massive price drops, and games I actually care for are released (that aren't on PC). Oh, and if I can't get an xbox one without the kinect, they can keep it.
While the Xbox controller's analog sticks and shoulder buttons are really good, it's D-pad is absolutely horrendous and its face buttons' rounded edges are annoying at best.
The perfect controller would take the body, D-pad, and upper shoulders of a Dualshock 3, with the analog sticks of an Xbox 360 controller, and the lower shoulders (seriously, why no one else has ever thought of analog shoulders with a lock-in is beyond me, those shoulders were marvelous) and face buttons of a Gamecube controller.
Wat. The body of the dialshock is what ruins me, that thing is just way too small. Doesn't matter what I play, after about 15 minutes I'll have to stop because my hands will stop functioning.
For me, its too early to be making decisions - and I wouldn't be buying a console 'til it went down in price anyway - but neither console really appeals to me. I've always been an Xbox fan, but the One sounds disappointing; with the exclusives unable to sway me (I feel the Halo series has been going downhill from Reach onwards) and the price putting me off even further.
But I'm not a fan of the PlayStation and - in particular - its controller.
I'm not going to side with either one yet: I'll wait to see how they pan out after release, see which ones my friends use, and see whether the Xbox One turns out as negative as its sounding.
Chatting to my brother earlier when I passed through the shop, and he reminded me of something that had slipped my mind. Something Kilkrazy also just pointed out in the PS4 thread.
The xboxone comes with the kinect, which we know from its 360 incarnation is worth £100. So really when you take that into account, I'm not having a lot of issue over the price.
Sony won, hands down. Better exclusive lineup, lending games is possible, no cyberspy, no arsehole-ish behavior (ie Microsoft bribing publishers) etc.
I just hope that all the CoD guys go buy an Xbox, that's the console for ZE DOODZ.
Xbox games looked terrible. Ryse is 100% QTE, Forza is vroom vrooooom, we still didnt see anything about the Quantum game and most major games are on both systems anyway. On the other side, we have Sony with Last of Us sweeping the entire starting lineup of the Xbone with a single strike.
...btw, did anyone see that Xbone design circlejerk video? just wow.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote: Chatting to my brother earlier when I passed through the shop, and he reminded me of something that had slipped my mind. Something Kilkrazy also just pointed out in the PS4 thread.
The xboxone comes with the kinect, which we know from its 360 incarnation is worth £100. So really when you take that into account, I'm not having a lot of issue over the price.
True, but I personally never would have brought Kinect, not have any real interest in it.
That both don't have backwards compatibility is seriously disappointing IMHO.
Got two lads in the eight to ten bracket.. so we got a fair bit of use from it. Enough that the boys also have a kinect on their bedroom machine.
Sigvatr I think you can add Halo fans to that as well, know many folks who'll get one regardless when the next Halo comes around, probably at a slightly cheaper entry point as well.
As to the display vids, really what did you expect, them sitting around saying how rubbish it was.
-Sarcasm starts here- (Warning not for the faint-hearted - May contain nuts)
I'm just going to get the Gamestick at this rate - Looks so much better! Or maybe even get back into Warhammer - You never know - it has better graphics than either of those two consoles and it is fully customizable and you can get an 1850 point army for half the price of the consoles.
Sony: PS4 multiplayer will also cost money now. PSN has far worse security and is a lot less reliable all round.
And honestly those problems can be attributed to the service being free. They're probably charging now because the free model just isn't working and they need to money to support a more secure and robust network.
Isn't there a third party controller out there for the PS3 that looks exactly like an xbox one (except for the lettering on the buttons obviously that has the PS3 markings like XO instead of AB)?
I do love the Sony game sharing video and (from reading reviews on the microsoft presentation) it doesn't look like MS addressed any of my concerns in their talk. Dumping the online requirements for non-multiplayer and backward compatibility are the two biggest issues I have. I know microsoft said that less than 10% of xbox users have ever played an original xbox game but I suspect their numbers are a bit spun toward their intended goal (of not spending the cash to create an emulator). Someone who bought an xbox in the last 2-3 years has no reason to play original xbox games because the 360 has a big library of good games to keep them busy. Someone who bought an xbox in its first year or two of production had every reason to play original xbox games. Halo 2 was the top played xbox live game on the 360 for over a year after its release until Gears of War came out and finally knocked it out of first place (I was following the weekly majornelson.com rankings); every person who owned an original xbox on my friends list continued to play original xbox games on their 360 during that first year or two as well. Backward compatibility admittedly caters to the hardcore gaming crowd but those are exactly the people who buy consoles at within a year of launch at full price and most every piece of news from microsoft is bad for that crowd. "Casual" gamers won't spend $500 to buy a DVR that doesn't record just to play the occasional game.
Sigvatr wrote: Sony won, hands down. Better exclusive lineup, lending games is possible, no cyberspy, no arsehole-ish behavior (ie Microsoft bribing publishers) etc.
I just hope that all the CoD guys go buy an Xbox, that's the console for ZE DOODZ.
Xbox games looked terrible. Ryse is 100% QTE, Forza is vroom vrooooom, we still didnt see anything about the Quantum game and most major games are on both systems anyway. On the other side, we have Sony with Last of Us sweeping the entire starting lineup of the Xbone with a single strike.
...btw, did anyone see that Xbone design circlejerk video? just wow.
Other way around, Microsoft won. Most games they had shown looked a lot better and more fun than any of the Playstation games. Oh and... lending games to friends is still possible on the Xbox One. But why would you even do that. It just shows how cheap your friends are.
And oh yeah... At least the Xbox One doesn't look like a badly designed eraser... That thing is going to overheat in a matter of hours.
I doubt it'll overheat and really both consoles look stupid. Sony released their tiny super thin eraser while Microsoft released their wonky beta max player.
Personally the thing that is disappointing me is that the days of console exclusivity were dying but now they are in some ways making a come back. I think this generation is going to become a breakwater moment. Microsoft and Sony are pulling in two slightly different directions with how they approach the industry and the consumer. Sides will be taken and blood will be drawn *que epic music*
regarding the third party PS3 controller: If there is I've not seen it in the shops over here warboss, also my brother would have tracked it down for sure.
I raised an eyebrow that he's suggesting he's skipping PS4 this time, normally he gets them all.
Although I totally agree with the backward compatibility.. unless Microsoft intend to skip past that by throwing old 360 games at us for free.. or put them up dirt cheap? who knows at this point.
LordofHats wrote: I doubt it'll overheat and really both consoles look stupid. Sony released their tiny super thin eraser while Microsoft released their wonky beta max player.
The fact that it's so small will cause it to overheat in no time, it has allmost no ventilation whatsoever.
LordofHats wrote: I doubt it'll overheat and really both consoles look stupid. Sony released their tiny super thin eraser while Microsoft released their wonky beta max player.
The fact that it's so small will cause it to overheat in no time, it has allmost no ventilation whatsoever.
There are laptops the size of spiral binders that don't overheat to the point they can't function. Just because something is small doesn't mean it'll overheat and frankly I doubt Sony would overlook such a gaping design flaw. They built it small no doubt because they think people will appreciate it, but being small isn't necessarily going to make something run hotter when its purpose built rather than just miniaturized.
The 360 ran hot and suffered some problems for it and it was a pretty big machine with (seemingly) decent ventilation. Just because something is small doesn't mean it'll have heat troubles anymore than being big absolves a machine of heat troubles.
Microsoft do have one final chance to get back alot of fans, The Develop Conference in July. Microsoft is making a Presentation outlining how cloud based gaming will work and how it will improve games in the future. This is a glaring omission from their E3 show and may just be a chance to show what the Xbone is really capable of. Stay tuned, i say it will make or break it.
There was some cool stuff about the cloud when they were talking about Forza (maybe that wasn't at E3 though just the same day).
The game supposedly will record you while you play and save your patterns onto an AI on the cloud. Then when your friends are playing their game, your AI can be one of the bots placed into their race.
LordofHats wrote: There was some cool stuff about the cloud when they were talking about Forza (maybe that wasn't at E3 though just the same day).
The game supposedly will record you while you play and save your patterns onto an AI on the cloud. Then when your friends are playing their game, your AI can be one of the bots placed into their race.
Forza 2 introduced the concept of the Driveatar. It's just people don't remember, this is just an upgraded version.
Yeah me neither, i just remember thinking the 'driveatar' was pretty neato, which it still is tbh.
What i really meant was i hope they'll explain how the cloud would actually give the machine 'more power' as was hinted at during the reveal. If it's really cool and clever people may have reconsider writing off microsoft.
Perkustin wrote: Microsoft do have one final chance to get back alot of fans, The Develop Conference in July. Microsoft is making a Presentation outlining how cloud based gaming will work and how it will improve games in the future. This is a glaring omission from their E3 show and may just be a chance to show what the Xbone is really capable of. Stay tuned, i say it will make or break it.
Microsoft has for all intents and purposes lost me on the xbox one unless it changes significantly. That said, there isn't "one final chance" as most of the issues people have with it can be changed via software. They could add backward compatibility, full used game support, and get rid of 24 hour DRM checks with a change in the OS of the console and they can announce that any ol' day before the release... but I seriously doubt we'll see the even one of the above. If they do change it, I hope they'll just install it at the factory or include an install DVD instead of having every user download multiple gigs on release day (like with the WII U).
Perkustin wrote: Microsoft do have one final chance to get back alot of fans, The Develop Conference in July. Microsoft is making a Presentation outlining how cloud based gaming will work and how it will improve games in the future. This is a glaring omission from their E3 show and may just be a chance to show what the Xbone is really capable of. Stay tuned, i say it will make or break it.
Microsoft has for all intents and purposes lost me on the xbox one unless it changes significantly. That said, there isn't "one final chance" as most of the issues people have with it can be changed via software. They could add backward compatibility, full used game support, and get rid of 24 hour DRM checks with a change in the OS of the console and they can announce that any ol' day before the release... but I seriously doubt we'll see the even one of the above. If they do change it, I hope they'll just install it at the factory or include an install DVD instead of having every user download multiple gigs on release day (like with the WII U).
There's a good chance it's not that easy.
Let me tell you a tale, the tale of the original xbox live and it's 100 friend limit. When the 360 came out they noticed alot of people were still playing halo 2, they also found that Halo 2 would crash if they tried to increase the friend limit, so they said we'll keep it at 100 for now and get back to it later. Every subsequent attempt by microsoft or developers caused either the system or the games to crash, it was impossible, despite 2 new form factors and chipsets for the 360. The friend limit has never been increased, until now, with completely new hardware and a complicated process to migrate your friends list.
It is entirely possible its too late for Microsoft to turn back, or rather, turning back would cost money they're unwilling to spend. Hardware in a streamlined machine plays a big roll in how that machine runs. PC's are open flexible platforms and they're designed that way.
The XBone is not. It was designed to do exactly what Microsoft wants it to do in the way they want it to do it. While its possible to solve some of the things people don't like with some code changes its also possible its much more complicated than that.
The question is why have backwards compatibility when you already own the previous console with all the games. The Xbox One is next-gen and playing older games on it will make now difference whether it could or can't. The console won't really upgrade the graphics. If people are so obsessed with older games for previous gen consoles - then why don't they just play it on those consoles. It's not like the Xbox 360 or PS3 will just stop working when the new consoles come out is it?
It was rumoured the 360 'Chip' was in development, which would be a USB device you could plug into the xbox one and presumably use by itself (wireless and Digi-Dis only obviously). Unfortunately it just turned out to be a new form factor for the 360. I was actually pretty disappointed by that as i thought the 360 chip sounded like a cool idea.
Vivster wrote: The question is why have backwards compatibility when you already own the previous console with all the games. The Xbox One is next-gen and playing older games on it will make now difference whether it could or can't. The console won't really upgrade the graphics. If people are so obsessed with older games for previous gen consoles - then why don't they just play it on those consoles. It's not like the Xbox 360 or PS3 will just stop working when the new consoles come out is it?
For me at least, it would be because A) I like those old games (such as Halo (1) and Fable; two of my personal favourites) as well as the new ones, B) wouldn't want to have two consoles plugged in, and C) am likely to trade in my old-gen console.
I may be mis-remembering, but didn't the 360 initially be announced as not having backwards compatibility and then they changed it due to demand?
The Grumpy Eldar wrote: Oh and... lending games to friends is still possible on the Xbox One. But why would you even do that. It just shows how cheap your friends are.
The Grumpy Eldar wrote: Oh and... lending games to friends is still possible on the Xbox One. But why would you even do that. It just shows how cheap your friends are.
This is how MS wants everyone to talk.
Yeah, that point - beyond his and Sigvatr's general arguments - struck me as... Odd.
The Forza A.I thing could be good.. or bad.. wonder if it notes the car with say A.I Fred, just have to hope Fred isn't awesome.. otherwise I can hear cries of 'not A.I Fred' as the race is gearing up to start.
As to Microsoft, I seriously think they are just going on the basis that they believe a load of folks will get one anyways, and let their games do the talking. That of course has the potential to backfire dramatically.
Vivster wrote: The question is why have backwards compatibility when you already own the previous console with all the games. The Xbox One is next-gen and playing older games on it will make now difference whether it could or can't. The console won't really upgrade the graphics. If people are so obsessed with older games for previous gen consoles - then why don't they just play it on those consoles. It's not like the Xbox 360 or PS3 will just stop working when the new consoles come out is it?
In the case of the xbox, it very well may (but unrelated to the release of a new console but rather due to hardware failure rates). I'm on my 7th xbox since 2006... basically, I'm running around 1 a year on average due to breakdowns. How long will the current one last? Dunno but I know that I'd like to still play my games more than a few months from now and I can't do that with the Xbone. Then there is the issue of people trading in the older console to stores like Gamestop in order to defray the initial cost of the new console. I traded in my old xbox, controllers, and games that I knew I wouldn't continue playing and saved almost $150 off the cost of my first 360. There is the issue of living room visual design and practical space. I don't want multiple briefcases under my TV when just one could suffice for games. Finally, some people don't have multiple HDMI ports necessary to play 1080p. There are many reasonable and common sense reasons why someone would want to play current gen titles on a next gen system so please don't use unnecessary and derogatory terms like "obsessed". Those may not be your personal top concerns but that doesn't make you any better than people who do have those concerns.
Backwards compatability is also good for encouraging "defectors." If someone had a PS3 but is switching to the Xbone, or vice versa, it would be nice to know that you aren't limited to the launch titles at the beginning, and have the whole backlog available to you for your new console.
Sigvatr wrote: Sony won, hands down. Better exclusive lineup, lending games is possible, no cyberspy, no arsehole-ish behavior (ie Microsoft bribing publishers) etc.
I just hope that all the CoD guys go buy an Xbox, that's the console for ZE DOODZ.
Xbox games looked terrible. Ryse is 100% QTE, Forza is vroom vrooooom, we still didnt see anything about the Quantum game and most major games are on both systems anyway. On the other side, we have Sony with Last of Us sweeping the entire starting lineup of the Xbone with a single strike.
...btw, did anyone see that Xbone design circlejerk video? just wow.
Vivster wrote: The question is why have backwards compatibility when you already own the previous console with all the games. The Xbox One is next-gen and playing older games on it will make now difference whether it could or can't. The console won't really upgrade the graphics. If people are so obsessed with older games for previous gen consoles - then why don't they just play it on those consoles. It's not like the Xbox 360 or PS3 will just stop working when the new consoles come out is it?
For me at least, it would be because A) I like those old games (such as Halo (1) and Fable; two of my personal favourites) as well as the new ones, B) wouldn't want to have two consoles plugged in, and C) am likely to trade in my old-gen console.
I may be mis-remembering, but didn't the 360 initially be announced as not having backwards compatibility and then they changed it due to demand?
Both touted backward compatibility albeit in different ways. The original PS3 effectively had ps2 hardware inside it and ran games on that (making it compatible with almost every game for the ps2 right away) whereas the xbox had software compatibility that emulated the original hardware and was only useful for a subset of the most popular games (but they added to that list of games every few months for the first year or two and you ended up with almost all of the decent sellers). Sony later on changed to software emulation as well and then later dropped it completely. I have no idea how the Wii and Wii U handle it but both are backward compatible with the previous generation.
I'm fine with them abandoning backward compatibility in new console production down the line but the XBone will likely need the stellar catalog of the 360 to keep people playing if previous console launches are any indication. From the initial hype of the 360 release, only Call of Duty 2 got any real mutliplayer action on my friends list and that game was mediocre at best (IIRC only a paltry 4v4 player limit). What did my friends play on the 360 multiplayer-wise before gears of war came out? They generally played Halo 2, Star Wars Battlefront 1&2, and Mechwarrior. Release or close to it games are generally mediocre as developers don't really have the expertise to know what they're doing yet with the tech. Backward compatibility helps bridge that gap for the demographic that is most likely to buy a console at or near release. People who want an expensive superduper cable box and high def web cam that somehow doesn't double as a DVR don't spend $500 to get it right away... they generally jump in after it drops another $100+ in price.
I've been incredibly happy with my decision to get a 360 despite my 6 hardware failures and applaud microsoft's decision to expand the demographic via Netflix, apps, etc while still catering (initially) to original xbox gamers while coming out with good game releases (with the exception of the initial release titles). I guess it was just too good to last. I only want a single machine for gaming each generation and the last two choices have been microsoft hardware... that won't be the case for the next unless things drastically change. I realize that I'm only one person but I've been a paying xbox live member for 9 years according to my bio and bought new at full retail price at least 3 dozen games, close to two dozen arcade games bought, probably 10-15 videos bought, hundreds of smaller microtransactions like DLC/gamerpics/etc, and hardware like the camera (used once!) and three extra controllers over the years plus a wifi adapter bought on top of the two consoles I bought (xbox and xbox 360). If they can afford to piss away that loyal of a customer, they must be in a good financial place indeed.
Oh, take no offense, it's just that I consider racing games to be as interesting as flight simulators. I just don't see why Forza is such an "WOAH LOOK AT THAT!" game. Does it have outstanding physics? I had to laugh at the presentation though...and so did the audience! Their praised feature of having your friend's cars ghosting / ghost lapping has been done by Trackmania a LONG time ago. So that's that.
Oh, take no offense, it's just that I consider racing games to be as interesting as flight simulators. I just don't see why Forza is such an "WOAH LOOK AT THAT!" game. Does it have outstanding physics? I had to laugh at the presentation though...and so did the audience! Their praised feature of having your friend's cars ghosting / ghost lapping has been done by Trackmania a LONG time ago. So that's that.
The rest of your post was wonderfully dismissive as well, so its hard not to take offense really.
And yes, Forza DOES have quite outstanding physics, and it is a great game. I thought the announcement of the game pulling profiled other races to race against rather than AI was a wonderful announcement.
Trackmania is literally a completely different sort of game than Forza or Gran Turiso; apples and oranges. They both have cars and tracks, that is where the similarities end. So that's that.
Of course it was dismissive. Microsoft behaves like a total arsehole in regards to the Xbox one. No lending games. No used games. Forced Kinect. Paying publishers to not present their stuff at Sony conference. etc.
And their lineup is really weak. We can skip the non-exclusives and Halo, as the latter one will sell anyway. Ryse? Looks terrible. Awesome graphics, looked stunning. And then...combat happened. Looks more like an on-rails hack n slay. Quantum looks interesting. Again: nothing in regards to the gactual game. Disappointing. Panzer Dragoon? Heard it got good music.
I'm not getting any console either. My fiancee thought about getting a xbox because she loved her 360 (and I do...it's an awesome console!) but Microsoft really dropped the ball on this. They slapped gamers in their face and focus on the Xbox Done being a "living room consol"...that takes an entire shelf. We could not even fit it in our shelf where the Blu-Ray player is right now if you wanted the Kinect on top of it. And to top it all off, they overcharge EU customers by a HUGE amount and blatantly rip them off. The only good thing they did was the new Xbox Plus...uh, I mean "Gold" stuff. And if the only good thing is blatantly copying your competitor..well...
Microsoft still makes the best OS, by a long shot, but this year, they pull of a Sony and clearly lost E3 by a long shot.
@Forza: I wasn't comparing games. I was merely stating that this "brand new feature" has long been done before.
My only real concern is I hope 'use the smartglass to' doesn't equal 'smartglass is the only way to' as I'm not buying a bloody tablet or other tech with the system just to play certain games.
Just so you are aware Smartglass is just an app and runs on Android and IOS, as well as Windows devices. It is free. I just downloaded it on my Android phone and it is pretty cool.
Sigvatr wrote: Of course it was dismissive. Microsoft behaves like a total arsehole in regards to the Xbox one. No lending games. No used games. Forced Kinect. Paying publishers to not present their stuff at Sony conference. etc.
And their lineup is really weak. We can skip the non-exclusives and Halo, as the latter one will sell anyway. Ryse? Looks terrible. Awesome graphics, looked stunning. And then...combat happened. Looks more like an on-rails hack n slay. Quantum looks interesting. Again: nothing in regards to the gactual game. Disappointing. Panzer Dragoon? Heard it got good music.
Microsoft still makes the best OS, by a long shot, but this year, they pull of a Sony and clearly lost E3 by a long shot.
You can lend games, you can buy and sell used games. This has been debunked for over a week. You think Bungie did an exclusive for Sony out of the goodness of their heart? Both companies pay for presentations.
Now you are just being silly claiming the lineup was weak. Titanfall was amazing, Dead Rising 3 looked amazing.
What did PS4 show that was exclusive? Infamous and The Order. Grated the Order looked cool. But aside from showing a bunch of multi-platform games, ans indie games i could play on my phone they had a very weak exclusive lineup. Not a single game shown was a system seller. It's so funny, MS shows few games at their console reveal and people freak out. They bombard people with games at E3, and PS talks about media and shows a few games and suddenly Sony are the champons of the internet. IGN literally said "Games will come later' in regards to Sony. Can't be much more hypocritical after MS got bashed for weeks about a lack of games at the console reveal.
Sigvatr wrote: Sony won, hands down. Better exclusive lineup, lending games is possible, no cyberspy, no arsehole-ish behavior (ie Microsoft bribing publishers) etc.
I just hope that all the CoD guys go buy an Xbox, that's the console for ZE DOODZ.
Xbox games looked terrible. Ryse is 100% QTE, Forza is vroom vrooooom, we still didnt see anything about the Quantum game and most major games are on both systems anyway. On the other side, we have Sony with Last of Us sweeping the entire starting lineup of the Xbone with a single strike.
...btw, did anyone see that Xbone design circlejerk video? just wow.
False
Dead rising 3? Ok thanks
Pre-ordered xbox and paid.
Also pre-ordered Ryse, Dead rising 3 , Madden 25 and assassins creed.
The ps4 looks good but I like the Xbox better, excited about the nfl stuff.. ( I own Both a ps3 and a Xbox 360)
To call Sony the clear victor is stupid. The console wars are over, Microsoft and Sony can do what they want with no big effect to the other.
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LordofHats wrote: FF Versus 13, er sorry FF 15, Kingdom Hearts 3 (about damn time), and no bs. Sony wins
I kid. But serious Sony just showed they have some IQ points to take advantage of a rather glaring opening in the market. Good on them
Those aren't exclusive titles, sorry to burst your fanboy bubble.
Sigvatr wrote: Sony won, hands down. Better exclusive lineup, lending games is possible, no cyberspy, no arsehole-ish behavior (ie Microsoft bribing publishers) etc.
I just hope that all the CoD guys go buy an Xbox, that's the console for ZE DOODZ.
Xbox games looked terrible. Ryse is 100% QTE, Forza is vroom vrooooom, we still didnt see anything about the Quantum game and most major games are on both systems anyway. On the other side, we have Sony with Last of Us sweeping the entire starting lineup of the Xbone with a single strike.
...btw, did anyone see that Xbone design circlejerk video? just wow.
If I remember right, the last of us is, is a PS3 exclusive. Not PS4. So at the end of the day it does nothing to tempt me to buy a PS4 over an xboxone. If anything it makes me want to just get a PS3 I much prefer forza over gran turismo, and halo over killzone. In my opinion, Microsoft has the better exclusives, and then as you say, most major games are available on both, so its the exclusives that sell the consoles.
However saying that, the cheaper price and all the issues around game lending and online connection means Sony is getting my money this time around. If Microsoft maybe changed there policies though, I would definitely get one.
Necroshea wrote: Finally got a look at Ryse gameplay. That...is a lot of QTE's
I was thinking that too; but after hearing the developers talk today I'm a bit reassured.
Apparently the QTEs are triggered by certain combinations of blocking/attacking which open up the QTEs when surrounded by multiple enemies.
It was their take on the Arkham City style of gameplay where counters are extremely powerful and easy to perform. It was also mentioned as well that "the controller is what makes you feel like a warrior, but the Kinect is how you feel like a general" and would not elaborate beyond saying that "The Romans did not become the force they were by being lone wolves. It was discipline and coordination, and we'll be showing you how that plays into our game within the coming months".
Slarg232 wrote: So you guys know that PrisM bill and how the Xbox One apparently won't spy on you?
Turns out the Xbox Store site is secured by Verizon, which also signed the Prism bill as you know.
Take that as you will.
Verisign is not Verizon.
Might be shopped, but there it is
I would be more worried about Facebook and Twitter than the Xbox website--even if they were being secured by "We're Totally Not the CIA Cyber Security"
Still was not impressed. Guess I'm just becoming a cranky gamer after leaving my teens, but I'm starting to look more for innovation than just rehashed concepts. QTE's are done to death, sync kills/takedowns are neat and fairly new, but I've played two batman games to death for them to be fresh anymore. The voice commands in game is neat, but they did that in...advanced war fighter? Don't remember. That and the setting seems just like more god of war.
Not saying its trash before it's released, but it just looks stale to me. Much like titanfall.
Speaking of titan stuff, they need a war on titan kind of game. Sorta like shadow of the colossus, but of course horribly gritty and dark.
Advanced Warfighter did not have voice commands(at least that I remember); that was Tom Clancy's EndWar. Mass Effect 3 had it as well with the Kinect.
I was also put off by the setting originally, being very irked at the Romans besieging a full on stone fortress in Dover(the historical inaccuracies! argh!) but when they explained that they have their own mythos and a bit of a supernatural twist that will be explored in the months leading up to the game's release I felt a bit better.
I do really think your statement about God of War is right on the money--I think this is Microsoft's attempt to add a God of War styled hack and slash exclusive to their line-up.
Kanluwen wrote: Advanced Warfighter did not have voice commands(at least that I remember); that was Tom Clancy's EndWar. Mass Effect 3 had it as well with the Kinect.
I was also put off by the setting originally, being very irked at the Romans besieging a full on stone fortress in Dover(the historical inaccuracies! argh!) but when they explained that they have their own mythos and a bit of a supernatural twist that will be explored in the months leading up to the game's release I felt a bit better.
I do really think your statement about God of War is right on the money--I think this is Microsoft's attempt to add a God of War styled hack and slash exclusive to their line-up.
Ah yes, endwar, that was it.
Fair point, I just wish if they were going to do a hack and slash not make it the smallest side step away from god of war. Perhaps a d&d inspired one like Demon stone. Man that game was awesome in so many ways. Hard as hell too.
Slarg232 wrote: So you guys know that PrisM bill and how the Xbox One apparently won't spy on you?
Turns out the Xbox Store site is secured by Verizon, which also signed the Prism bill as you know.
Take that as you will.
Verisign is not Verizon.
Might be shopped, but there it is
I would be more worried about Facebook and Twitter than the Xbox website--even if they were being secured by "We're Totally Not the CIA Cyber Security"
Obviously being spied on by Tom is better than being spied on by Jerry, huh?
Kanluwen wrote: Advanced Warfighter did not have voice commands(at least that I remember); that was Tom Clancy's EndWar. Mass Effect 3 had it as well with the Kinect.
I was also put off by the setting originally, being very irked at the Romans besieging a full on stone fortress in Dover(the historical inaccuracies! argh!) but when they explained that they have their own mythos and a bit of a supernatural twist that will be explored in the months leading up to the game's release I felt a bit better.
I do really think your statement about God of War is right on the money--I think this is Microsoft's attempt to add a God of War styled hack and slash exclusive to their line-up.
Ah yes, endwar, that was it.
EndWar had a lot of problems, which held it back...mostly which could be summed up with the fact it was a RTS game on a console.
Fair point, I just wish if they were going to do a hack and slash not make it the smallest side step away from god of war. Perhaps a d&d inspired one like Demon stone. Man that game was awesome in so many ways. Hard as hell too.
I think (this is sheer spitballing on my part) they think that using a historical setpiece is going to be easier to get acceptance than going for a fantastic setpiece.
They look at God of War and see that it's done well when games like Too Human or Kingdoms of Amalur or Dragon Age/Dragon Age II have not done as well (despite them not being "simple hack and slashes"--you never know how the bean counters think). It's easy for one to start to think that "Maybe if we used a historical setting as the backdrop and modified it to make it more enthralling?" while ignoring that games like Oblivion or Skyrim have done fantastic without the quasihistorical setting.
Be fair Daedalus; both companies showed exclusives and both companies showed some games which were not exclusive.
Hideo Kojima has been talking for quite awhile that exclusives are becoming a "thing of the past" for consoles and it's very true. You see a few exclusives early on in a console's lifetime, but as the independent developers become familiar with the system architecture for the platforms you see less and less exclusives in favor of more shared games.
You'll continue to see first party titles (i.e. "Ryze") but the major developers and the publishers they're associated with are going to want to market to everyone possible.
Kanluwen wrote: Be fair Daedalus; both companies showed exclusives and both companies showed some games which were not exclusive.
Hideo Kojima has been talking for quite awhile that exclusives are becoming a "thing of the past" for consoles and it's very true. You see a few exclusives early on in a console's lifetime, but as the independent developers become familiar with the system architecture for the platforms you see less and less exclusives in favor of more shared games.
You'll continue to see first party titles (i.e. "Ryze") but the major developers and the publishers they're associated with are going to want to market to everyone possible.
I was just saying that people I have been interacting with have been confusing exclusivity, like I had a friend tell me how amazing it was that FFXV and Kingdom Hearts 3? was going to be exclusive to PS4, I told him they weren't and he was literally upset.
I was just saying that people I have been interacting with have been confusing exclusivity, like I had a friend tell me how amazing it was that FFXV and Kingdom Hearts 3? was going to be exclusive to PS4, I told him they weren't and he was literally upset.
I wouldn't mind exclusives going away myself.
Because the Sony press conference was a bunch of PR speak. They said something like "FF15 and KH3 are coming to the PS4 and FF14 is a PS4 exclusive!" Apprently everyone missed that, or was hoping for the best. Also the no DRM on PS4, but today there is DRM if the developer chooses to have it. The thing that got them so much cheering is no different than the Xbox approach as far as DRM goes. Now the 24 hour connection is another matter.
Don't give a damn about exclusivity. Give a damn about not having to deal with BS. Sony has played the PR card better than MS this round so to me they've won (even if a lot of the BS will be the same).
P.S. I haven't owned a Sony Product since the PS1.
I was just saying that people I have been interacting with have been confusing exclusivity, like I had a friend tell me how amazing it was that FFXV and Kingdom Hearts 3? was going to be exclusive to PS4, I told him they weren't and he was literally upset.
I wouldn't mind exclusives going away myself.
Can you blame them. MS was throwing the word out left and right about games that actually aren't exclusive (Did Sony do it too?). The companies are playing word games with people so of course they're getting confused.
If I remember right, the last of us is, is a PS3 exclusive. Not PS4. So at the end of the day it does nothing to tempt me to buy a PS4 over an xboxone. If anything it makes me want to just get a PS3 I much prefer forza over gran turismo, and halo over killzone. In my opinion, Microsoft has the better exclusives, and then as you say, most major games are available on both, so its the exclusives that sell the consoles.
Yes, Last of Us is PS3 exclusive, I just said that a Sony exclusive is superior to all the stuff the Xbox Done gets at start - ratings just go through the roof!
However saying that, the cheaper price and all the issues around game lending and online connection means Sony is getting my money this time around. If Microsoft maybe changed there policies though, I would definitely get one.
Microsoft will backpedal. A LOT. Like a whimsy, little child. And we can all thank Sony for this. THEY are the ones stood up for user rights whereas Microsoft treated their gamers like trash. Fun fact: the same guy that ruined the current gen for Sony is now the head of Microsoft who is about to lose next-gen. A fish rots from the head down.
I had to laugh at the Sony presentation though...I mean, who would have thought that people would outright cheer and give standing ovations because someone announced that you would be able to trade games with your friends? Microsoft really played in Sony's hands this time.
Fun fact: the same guy that ruined the current gen for Sony is now the head of Microsoft who is about to lose next-gen. A fish rots from the head down.
Really? That's funny
In my opinion, Microsoft has the better exclusives, and then as you say, most major games are available on both, so its the exclusives that sell the consoles.
Not really. Sure exclusives have the power to sell consoles but as other people have said other factors probably play a larger role. What do their friends have? Price point matters to (though I don't hedge on $100 making a massive difference in the long run), and the overall service provided. On two of those fronts Microsoft has lost unless they want to backpedal (which they won't) or want to start a price war with Sony, which in the long run Sony will probably win.
Release dates also matter. In Japan and XBone isn't releasing until next year. At that point they might as well not even bother releasing at all since they've never been popular in Japan and by that point Sony will have probably secured the market. And for all we know Nintendo might finally gets it act together.
Microsoft has resigned itself to selling just in the US and Europe which is a very foolish decision. They needed to try and build their Asian market but it seems the direction they're going is to snub it entirely, while making unpopular announcements and all Sony has to do is sit back and play nice.
It's also worth noting that the exclusives we know of now are just that, exclusives we know of now. Keep in mind that Sony has the largest base of 1st party developers right now, and with how homogenous consoles get with each generation (except for cloudcookoolander Nintendo), 1st party developers are the main source of exclusives.
Microsoft has resigned itself to selling just in the US and Europe which is a very foolish decision. They needed to try and build their Asian market but it seems the direction they're going is to snub it entirely, while making unpopular announcements and all Sony has to do is sit back and play nice.
Keep in mind that Microsoft screwed Europeans over pretty hard as Europeans cannot use most of the Xbone's multimedia features yet still get charged for it.
Bad form for Sony though: going for a 1:1 $ and € ratio is a pretty low-blow. Same thing that Microsoft did, but that means paying 25% more.
Most exclusives these days seem to be platform-specific DLC or timed-release DLC (which honestly brings up a far bigger and disturbing problem - if the game's aren't done yet, why does DLC even exist? Put it into the game you feth-tards!!!), rather than exclusive games.
As AAA games get more and more expensive to make (which is a separate problem again), the publishing houses will want to make as much money as possible. Limiting your market by limiting your platform doesn't make any business sense. Perhaps in the current gen it makes more sense, what with the difficulties of Sony's Cell process forcing everyone to jump through hoops to make games, but in the next gen, with everyone starting with the same basic tech, there's no reason for that outside of 1st party developers.
Oh, and because I wasn't able to post when it happened yesterday - BOOM. Knockout blow. Shortest console war in history. X-Box go home.
Don't give a damn about exclusivity. Give a damn about not having to deal with BS. Sony has played the PR card better than MS this round so to me they've won (even if a lot of the BS will be the same).
P.S. I haven't owned a Sony Product since the PS1.
I was just saying that people I have been interacting with have been confusing exclusivity, like I had a friend tell me how amazing it was that FFXV and Kingdom Hearts 3? was going to be exclusive to PS4, I told him they weren't and he was literally upset.
I wouldn't mind exclusives going away myself.
Can you blame them. MS was throwing the word out left and right about games that actually aren't exclusive (Did Sony do it too?). The companies are playing word games with people so of course they're getting confused.
From your previous comments about the sony wins and using final fantasy 15 and kingdom hearts 3 as your reference point indicated you didn't know they were cross platform.
Microsoft has resigned itself to selling just in the US and Europe which is a very foolish decision. They needed to try and build their Asian market but it seems the direction they're going is to snub it entirely, while making unpopular announcements and all Sony has to do is sit back and play nice.
Keep in mind that Microsoft screwed Europeans over pretty hard as Europeans cannot use most of the Xbone's multimedia features yet still get charged for it.
Bad form for Sony though: going for a 1:1 $ and € ratio is a pretty low-blow. Same thing that Microsoft did, but that means paying 25% more.
I guess that's why you are a big sour puss for Microsoft. But look on the bright side, you guys get to see movies most of the time before the US, like Iron-man 3 or star trek.
Sigvatr, if I were to use Teclis and Microsoft in the same sentence will you're head explode? I guess we will find out.
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H.B.M.C. wrote: Most exclusives these days seem to be platform-specific DLC or timed-release DLC (which honestly brings up a far bigger and disturbing problem - if the game's aren't done yet, why does DLC even exist? Put it into the game you feth-tards!!!), rather than exclusive games.
As AAA games get more and more expensive to make (which is a separate problem again), the publishing houses will want to make as much money as possible. Limiting your market by limiting your platform doesn't make any business sense. Perhaps in the current gen it makes more sense, what with the difficulties of Sony's Cell process forcing everyone to jump through hoops to make games, but in the next gen, with everyone starting with the same basic tech, there's no reason for that outside of 1st party developers.
Oh, and because I wasn't able to post when it happened yesterday - BOOM. Knockout blow. Shortest console war in history. X-Box go home.
This may be news, but console wars are over. This ain't the 90's
Both companies will do very well and both systems are gonna sell.
Like the Ps4 or like the xbox, and by the way there is a sony ps4 thread if you want to go over there.
K thanks
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Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote: Rule one folks, lets not start losing it over which console is best please, leave that to dedicated fanboy boards if you will. Dislike, anger direct at the companies for decision making etc is fine, taking pot shots at one another because you prefer console a over console b is not!
Also try to keep the Sony focused talk in the PS4 thread please.
pities2004 wrote: From your previous comments about the sony wins and using final fantasy 15 and kingdom hearts 3 as your reference point indicated you didn't know they were cross platform.
I didn't but like I said. I don't give a damn about exclusivity. The only games that are on the Xbone that interest me thus far are Halo 5 and Titanfall. One of those I can get on PC if I'm that desperate to suffer Origin or Windows Live, so really I have no reason to want to suffer MS's annoying features.
Any given JRPG (a genre I've always liked but never got to play enough of) will probably end up on PS4 baring a few exceptions. Metal Gear will be there too. Lower price for the console and multiplayer and not having to pay for Netflix? It's not a hard decision for me to make.
This may be news, but console wars are over. This ain't the 90's
They're never over. Of course the fervor shown in the console wars can be quite baffling at times. I still know people who swear by Nintendo no matter what since the days of the N64. Even when they see games they'd like on another system and can afford to pursue it they don't because its not Nintendo.
Also try to keep the Sony focused talk in the PS4 thread please.
It's kind of absurd to expect people to discuss either console in a vacume. Honestly this thread should just be retitled "Next Gen Console Thread" cause that's what's been almost this entire time.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote: Rule one folks, lets not start losing it over which console is best please, leave that to dedicated fanboy boards if you will. Dislike, anger direct at the companies for decision making etc is fine, taking pot shots at one another because you prefer console a over console b is not!
Read that, carefully. Most of us were referring to Microsoft and them alienating gamers while you were the one referring to individual users again. Keep it to the games / consoles / companies, don't reference other users directly. Feel free to comment on posts.
I am heavily biased against Microsoft now for the exact reasons I explained already in this thread. They alienate gamers. They restrict personal use. They are extremely arrogant and their head CEO seriously asks all users without a steady internet connection to buy a 360. Is that how you market your new console properly?
I am sure that the XBone will still sell well, especially the huge amount of Call of Doody kids might get it due to earlier DLC releases. Sony is the good guy here - they respect personal use, their customers and their ideas of gaming. Compare the Xbox Done presentation to the Sony presentation. Microsoft? Boring trailers. Boring montages. Terrible presenters, very formal layout. Sony? Crowd cheering at them. The fecking chanted "SONY! SONY! SONY!". Journalists gave standing ovations. Their moderators managed to connect to the crowd.
You can be a fanboy, you can argue about a lot of stuff, but Sony winning E3 is an undeniable fact. Feel free to ride against it, but brace yourself for the impact, Don Quijote.
I think that's not a good standard for winning E3. Surely, Sony has won among the gaming press (who frankly have always had a sour relationship with Microsoft anyway). They've surely won among the 'hardcore' people on the internet who have always complained about always online drm and what not. But neither of those things should be taken as indicative of the market as a whole.
Look at CoD and Blizzard. All the things they do that people on the internet scream over and they still break sales records.
My point being different demographics have different expectations. Annecdotally, the people I work with all seemed turned off the XBone, but the people I hang out with are split (and we're a fairly hardcore group for games).
I can say I'm not interested in Microsofts new Xbox one. I dislike all of whats been discussed for features. Somewhat of a bummer since I like to follow along with the halo story line but I refuse to buy Any system because of 1 title or let my friends or family dictate what I buy because they have one. Not when it's 500 dollars.
I like what I'm hearing about sonys new system but we'll have to see.
GW may not be getting any money from me this year if I decide to get a new system or not
Sigvatr wrote: ~Snip~ I am sure that the XBone will still sell well, especially the huge amount of Call of Doody kids might get it due to earlier DLC releases. Sony is the good guy here - they respect personal use, their customers and their ideas of gaming. Compare the Xbox Done presentation to the Sony presentation. Microsoft? Boring trailers. Boring montages. Terrible presenters, very formal layout. Sony? Crowd cheering at them. The fecking chanted "SONY! SONY! SONY!". Journalists gave standing ovations. Their moderators managed to connect to the crowd.
You can be a fanboy, you can argue about a lot of stuff, but Sony winning E3 is an undeniable fact. Feel free to ride against it, but brace yourself for the impact, Don Quijote.
lol, you said Doody. At the end of the day - what have we actually learnt about the PS4? Yes there's some things, but the DRM issue is still in the air - from what I've gathered, Sony is kind of just trolling microsoft, keeping info relatively thin on the ground.
I'm still playing wait-and-see, it's still going to be a little while before we know everything.
That said - charging +£110 for no particular reason is a bit of a pisstake.
I agree. I'm still in wait an see mode on weither I buy the new sony system but xbox is pretty much dead to me unless they drastically change course which I don't think will happen.
Honestly I just want a gaming console that plays games. I don't need it to do all this other stuff. I already have other devices that do those things. I don't want to pay extra for stuff I don't need or want just so they can jak up the price. I also don't want all their big brother software either.
Yes there's some things, but the DRM issue is still in the air - from what I've gathered, Sony is kind of just trolling microsoft, keeping info relatively thin on the ground.
They've both done this and it is annoying. Microsoft has at this point made their intentions clear, but prior to E3 it was a giant WTF as to what they were really doing.
Now Sony is kind of doing the same. I suspect they intend to do what the rumors lean on; Not insitituting the 24 hour check themselves but rather leaving it to the publisher. That's an important distinction for them though cause it shifts all the blame for it onto the publishers (which I suspect is their goal) and people who hate always online stuff hate the publishers anyway and will be more than happy to keep hating them.
I don't know about that. If that's the case they would be in even more hot water with the player base for the troll on Microsoft if they were doing it as well.
wowsmash wrote: I don't know about that. If that's the case they would be in even more hot water with the player base for the troll on Microsoft if they were doing it as well.
Yeah. That might backfire on them at the same time people might just resolve themselves to the fact that its something they'll have to suffer and go with the company that didn't build the feature into the console itself. That's what I assume Sony is hedging their bets on.
And frankly its not a bad bet. It is the publishers who likely want that feature on the consoles. Microsoft just went "okay" cause they've never really given a damn about consumers to begin with or they thought being cooperative with the publishers would give them an edge over Sony. Meanwhile Sony is stuck in a difficult position; They can refuse to have such a feature at all. If that happens EA, Ubisoft, and Activision will likely start showing clear and favored support for Microsoft in the console war shifting their games and focus to the console that does what they want. Sony can just do it, and get the same hate as Microsoft or they can do what I think they're doing which is gamble on gamer hate blaming the publishers instead of them.
Sigvatr wrote: On another note: I am sure we got some really tech-savy people here at Dakka. Did anyone yet calculate how much an equally strong PC would cost?
About the same (maybe 100-150 more) than the XBox One buying the parts off newegg and assembly and some sales. Totally random guess. Quality of the parts might be questionable though since I'm edging on some of the cheaper manufacturers.
Sigvatr wrote: On another note: I am sure we got some really tech-savy people here at Dakka. Did anyone yet calculate how much an equally strong PC would cost?
About the same (maybe 100-150 more) than the XBox One buying the parts off newegg and assembly and some sales. Totally random guess. Quality of the parts might be questionable though since I'm edging on some of the cheaper manufacturers.
...really? That would make buying a console pretty...short-sighted.
Not necessarily. Like I said. Quality of the parts would be questionable. I'm not a huge company about to mass produce a machine. High quality parts closer to maybe $800-900. Of course, buying the right low quality parts can make something cheap a real steal. Cheap motherboards for example aren't always that bad if you can deal with slow boot up and don't plan on upgrading. Newegg also does a lot of sales and bundle deals and you can get lucky sometimes.
EDIT: And of course, some of the stuff people complain about on the XBone has been on PC for years.
EDIT EDIT: Actually now I'm curious. I'll do the math after my LoL match.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Okay doing this as I type my post!
I'll use This Bundle deal here for a GeForce 660 and a Core i5 a $385.98 so right there I've already practically broken the bank proving I was way off almost from the start (and the GPU is likely underpowered compared to the XBone and PS4). Using the mail in rebate this goes down to $375.95.
So that's GPU, CPU, mobo, power supply, and RAM. We can use the onboard sound and skip a sound card. We'll grab a cheap CPU fan for $28.99 and a small hard drive for $49.99 and the total comes to $644.99. So with that, maybe I've hit my extra $150 mark. EDIT: Up! Forgot CD drive. That's what I get for using Steam. $20. EDIT EDIT: And I forgot the tower too which is what I get for having the same one for a decade XD. Get a cheap one for $60. If you're really enterprising make one yourself for free. So yeah. More like $200 assuming your building an entire tower.
Monitor, Mouse, Keyboard, and OS not included. That would rocket the price at least another $139.99 (for Windows 7), $100 (cheap monitor), and $25 for a cheap mouse and keyboard so $900+. I assume though most people already have such items generally. Tax and shipping also not included.
Someone can check my work here. Surely there are people better with this stuff than I (and new egg is a huge site, hours could probably be spent doing this). I just kind of threw all this together at a glance so all the parts might not mesh with each other. Maybe if you hunted around New Egg for the best deals you'd find $20-40 in savings by buying different things with sales or rebates.
I think this would probably would play the launch titles for the XBone and PS4, it probably won't play them well.
Quickius Timius Eventius lmao. Best line by far. Thought "For this Beard I paid the Iron Price" was pretty good too.
My buddy who runs a YouTube channel is dreading the new video uploads. It's gonna get really hard to get noticed by anyone when everyone and their grandmother can upload their commentaries at the press of a button. Poor guy
LordofHats wrote:Not necessarily. Like I said. Quality of the parts would be questionable. I'm not a huge company about to mass produce a machine. High quality parts closer to maybe $800-900. Of course, buying the right low quality parts can make something cheap a real steal. Cheap motherboards for example aren't always that bad if you can deal with slow boot up and don't plan on upgrading. Newegg also does a lot of sales and bundle deals and you can get lucky sometimes.
EDIT: And of course, some of the stuff people complain about on the XBone has been on PC for years.
EDIT EDIT: Actually now I'm curious. I'll do the math after my LoL match.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Okay doing this as I type my post!
I'll use This Bundle deal here for a GeForce 660 and a Core i5 a $385.98 so right there I've already practically broken the bank proving I was way off almost from the start (and the GPU is likely underpowered compared to the XBone and PS4). Using the mail in rebate this goes down to $375.95.
So that's GPU, CPU, mobo, power supply, and RAM. We can use the onboard sound and skip a sound card. We'll grab a cheap CPU fan for $28.99 and a small hard drive for $49.99 and the total comes to $644.99. So with that, maybe I've hit my extra $150 mark. EDIT: Up! Forgot CD drive. That's what I get for using Steam. $20.
Monitor, Mouse, Keyboard, and OS not included. That would rocket the price at least another $139.99 (for Windows 7), $100 (cheap monitor), and $25 for a cheap mouse and keyboard so $900+. I assume though most people already have such items generally. Tax and shipping also not included.
Someone can check my work here. Surely there are people better with this stuff than I (and new egg is a huge site, hours could probably be spent doing this). I just kind of threw all this together at a glance so all the parts might not mesh with each other. Maybe if you hunted around New Egg for the best deals you'd find $20-40 in savings by buying different things with sales or rebates.
I think this would probably would play the launch titles for the XBone and PS4, it probably won't play them well.
You also forgot Case and Cables.
You should be able to make an equivalent machine, without monitor, keyboard or mouse, for the same or slightly cheaper.
Of course, you then later need to upgrade to keep up with the current requirements, which is where for me, Consoles have their place - buy a new one every X years, rather than trickling upgrades in.
(and the GPU is likely underpowered compared to the XBone and PS4).
First of all really?
the PS3 and Xbox both use APU systems. Shared Graphics and Memory. an intel i5 will destroy a ps3 and XBO on CPU power alone. In fact the GPU has more computing power than both of them combined, on its own. then there is the fact that the GPU has standalone 2GB of GDDR5 soly for graphics use. Where as the Xbox has 8 GB of shared DDR3 memory. 4 gb for graphics 4 gb for processing. And GDDR5 is stupidly faster that DDR3. DDR3 in the Xbox is only 1600mhz at full wack, will probably only run at 1333mhz. GDDR 5 is around the 6000mhz mark depending on card manufacturer and clock settings. PS4 has GDDR5 memory but this is shared between both CPU and GPU. because of the APU system they are using.
I did a little calculation my self here.
AMD HD7870 OC comes with tomb raider and bioshock infinite for free
Intel i5 4430 comes with Grid 2 for free
Corsair GS 600watt PSU
MSI z87 motherboard comes with a free MSI water cooler
8gb crucial ballistic 1600mhz of ram
Average PC case
120GB SSD this could be swapped for a 500 gb hdd for half of its price.
wireless keyboard and mouse.
Windows 8 home
with the exchange rate that's 850 dollars.
I have purposely left off the price of a monitor, as if you want to be fair, a ps4 or an xbo does not come with a HD ready tv. so thets assume you allready own this and a pc can be hooked up to any HD V just as easy as a PS4 or XBO.
And what you get is a PC capable of playing any brand new game at high settings on DX11.
hen thets not forget everything else a PC can do. compared to the consoles.
I know but I guess I underestimated the processing power comparison apparently XD
And what you get is a PC capable of playing any brand new game at high settings on DX11.
I was shooting for low to try and best match the cost of the consoles themselves. But you can go and make your assumptions about my bias. I've already been accused on being a fanboy.
I know but I guess I underestimated the processing power comparison apparently XD
And what you get is a PC capable of playing any brand new game at high settings on DX11.
I was shooting for low to try and best match the cost of the consoles themselves. But you can go and make your assumptions about my bias. I've already been accused on being a fanboy.
your not a Fanboy you like what ever you like. thats just the way we humies are
the PS3 and Xbox both use APU systems. Shared Graphics and Memory. an intel i5 will destroy a ps3 and XBO on CPU power alone. In fact the GPU has more computing power than both of them combined, on its own. then there is the fact that the GPU has standalone 2GB of GDDR5 soly for graphics use. Where as the Xbox has 8 GB of shared DDR3 memory. 4 gb for graphics 4 gb for processing. And GDDR5 is stupidly faster that DDR3. DDR3 in the Xbox is only 1600mhz at full wack, will probably only run at 1333mhz. GDDR 5 is around the 6000mhz mark depending on card manufacturer and clock settings. PS4 has GDDR5 memory but this is shared between both CPU and GPU. because of the APU system they are using.
I did a little calculation my self here. *snip*
While I don't think sony has commented specifically on the PS4 operating system, the xbone RAM is divided between gaming and the OS interface to enable the instant switching from game to movie to whatever. They said in one of the earlier initial announcement interviews that 2gb of RAM is dedicated to the OS. For gaming specifically, it'll only have 6gb to share between cpu and gpu. I don't think they specificed if it was divided evenly between cpu/gpu as your example mentions as well but it's possible i missed it. Dividing the remaining 6gb rigidly is unlikely though because the PS3 ran into alot of issues this generation because its RAM was permanently divided whereas the 360 let the program/app/game decide how to divvy it up.
Can't wait for that sweet, sweet Forza rumbling through my home theatre system.
Sigvatr's posts are hilarious. Is the last page really about building PCs? Come on guys.
You're a Forza fanboy then, swings either way
Seriously though, why wouldn't you compare consoles to PCs? In short, next-gen consoles do the very same thing any PC does. They are PCs. Less trouble with installation due to the same hardware, but fall short of being as flexible as a PC. And if they come at a similar or same prize as a PC, they are useless.
It looks badass, ye. The combat, however, looked absolutely terrible. I mean, I like QTE like in God of War. But really, QTE to fight people? That's...annoying.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote: Rule one folks, lets not start losing it over which console is best please, leave that to dedicated fanboy boards if you will. Dislike, anger direct at the companies for decision making etc is fine, taking pot shots at one another because you prefer console a over console b is not!
List of countries where the Xbox 1 will actually work:
Xbox One-Supported Xbox Live Countries
Australia
Austria
Belgium
Brazil
Canada
Denmark
Finland
France
Germany
Ireland
Italy
Mexico
Netherlands
New Zealand
Norway
Russia
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
United Kingdom
United States
Xbox One games are for activation and distribution only in specified geographic regions. See game package and/or retailer product information, for each game’s specific geographic regions.
Meanwhile, in a place where comsumers might not come first but are at least respected:
Region free PS4!
Freedom to trade/sell/keep/break games at will.
No mandated activation or authentication!
And no camera that's watching you all the time that you cannot unplug.
Kanluwen wrote: Except for y'know, the authentication associated with whatever developers/publishers decide to put on the games...
Doesn't matter trying to explain any of this. People will not listen or try and grasp what is actually going on. MS is moving console gaming forward and the people who resist moving forward will look back and wonder why people couldn't see the change coming. The online requirements, the focus on digital, it's going to be like moving from renting at Blockbuster to streaming Netflix instantly from your home. People are shortsighted and people fear change. The games developers are already moving on - whether or not the console always requires online authentication, the games will - and already are.
MS is making a bold move in forcing the technology and paradigm of console gaming forward. People who want to stay in the past and not progress are welcome to buy a PS4. I'm sure they'll be online and buying digital once it becomes the norm anyway.
Anyone who considers always online DRM 'moving forward' needs to reexamine their concept of progress. It's one thing to say people are crying over spilled milk and they should just accept the inevitable, it's another to call an a feature that offers a consumer no benefit and is done solely to please an illogical special interest of game publishers progressive. People can accept something and still be upset with it and just because a company is changing the business doesn't mean that change is positive.
Kanluwen wrote: Except for y'know, the authentication associated with whatever developers/publishers decide to put on the games...
Doesn't matter trying to explain any of this. People will not listen or try and grasp what is actually going on. MS is moving console gaming forward and the people who resist moving forward will look back and wonder why people couldn't see the change coming. The online requirements, the focus on digital, it's going to be like moving from renting at Blockbuster to streaming Netflix instantly from your home. People are shortsighted and people fear change. The games developers are already moving on - whether or not the console always requires online authentication, the games will - and already are.
MS is making a bold move in forcing the technology and paradigm of console gaming forward. People who want to stay in the past and not progress are welcome to buy a PS4. I'm sure they'll be online and buying digital once it becomes the norm anyway.
You're the type who would aggressively defend aggressive wasps if they exclusively nested inside Xbox products aren't you? Apparently you're also the type who missed that I can get Netflix and all the other magic services the Xbone is providing... GASP! A bunch of other places! Including my T.V.! Don't even have to turn the Xbox on! You also missed the bit where this thing is already a dud in the global market because, hey! Seems it doesn't even function in a lot of countries and the countries that can use it can't use a lot of these special features. Nor is internet access as regular as you seem to think it is world wide. Or even here in the United States. MS is making a stupid move that's a flop technologically, marketing wise and just on basic user friendliness. This mistake will hopefully be quickly swept under the rug of history.
I think the XBone could have gotten by without this negative PR if Microsoft simply wasn't handling it so badly. Take for example the sailor who explained that he wouldn't have reliable internet at sea and asked what could be done so he could use an XBone. The Microsoft Rep simply told him to get a 360. That's just bad PR.
Sony is skating by any negative attention right now simply because they just have to sit back and lash out at all of Microsoft's mistakes (mistakes that is in the PR war). Their tongue and cheek video about sharing games was a brilliant move on their part. Even if you are totally going forward with the XBone I don't think you can deny that those 22 seconds were masterfully crafted to appeal directly to the consumers upset about the issue.
Everyone will happily overlook whatever Sony does for now simply because Sony can point their finger at Microsoft and say "hey, at least we're not that guy."
He has a voyeurism fetish obviously. Why anyone in their right mind would ever buy something that could potentially cost you more money by making you purchase additional user licenses to watch a movie with a large group of people is beyond me.
LordofHats wrote: Anyone who considers always online DRM 'moving forward' needs to reexamine their concept of progress. It's one thing to say people are crying over spilled milk and they should just accept the inevitable, it's another to call an a feature that offers a consumer no benefit and is done solely to please an illogical special interest of game publishers progressive. People can accept something and still be upset with it and just because a company is changing the business doesn't mean that change is positive.
They should accept the inevitable. Everyone considers iTunes a normal concept but it was revolutionary 10 years ago. No one complains they don't own the movies they watch on Netflix. No one seems to realize sharing your game library with 10 people online is a lot easier than handing one disc over to a friend physically. No one talks about how Steam has been running a similar system for ages with no possibility for sharing, and how publishers can offer lower prices and massive sale through that platform. It is the publishers who set those prices, not Steam, so it is very likely that Xbox will have similar price stratgies with their authentication in place for developers. Every single gaming forum I've read, when this scenario is presented, people say they are willing to accept DRM for lower prices. So really how much to people values their consumer rights to physical media when they state willingly they will forego it for a slight discount?
Kanluwen wrote: Except for y'know, the authentication associated with whatever developers/publishers decide to put on the games...
Doesn't matter trying to explain any of this. People will not listen or try and grasp what is actually going on. MS is moving console gaming forward and the people who resist moving forward will look back and wonder why people couldn't see the change coming. The online requirements, the focus on digital, it's going to be like moving from renting at Blockbuster to streaming Netflix instantly from your home. People are shortsighted and people fear change. The games developers are already moving on - whether or not the console always requires online authentication, the games will - and already are.
MS is making a bold move in forcing the technology and paradigm of console gaming forward. People who want to stay in the past and not progress are welcome to buy a PS4. I'm sure they'll be online and buying digital once it becomes the norm anyway.
You're the type who would aggressively defend aggressive wasps if they exclusively nested inside Xbox products aren't you? Apparently you're also the type who missed that I can get Netflix and all the other magic services the Xbone is providing... GASP! A bunch of other places! Including my T.V.! Don't even have to turn the Xbox on! You also missed the bit where this thing is already a dud in the global market because, hey! Seems it doesn't even function in a lot of countries and the countries that can use it can't use a lot of these special features. Nor is internet access as regular as you seem to think it is world wide. Or even here in the United States. MS is making a stupid move that's a flop technologically, marketing wise and just on basic user friendliness. This mistake will hopefully be quickly swept under the rug of history.
Congratulations on not grasping a single concept of what I was addressing. I mentioned Netflix as an analogy to the outdated concept of physical rentals from a store, not as a feature. If that is over your head I would be wasting my time explaining the rest of the concepts to you. You also fail to see it is functional in nearly every market current consoles are functional. The lack of internet connectivity worldwide is not my concern. It's like saying people should not bother developing smart phones with 4G speeds because part of the world doesn't have the infrastructure. Sorry, I'm not going to worry about rural areas not having state of the art technology, and it certainly should be a reason to hold back progress in the parts of the world that can utilize such technology. Bottom line, it the product isn't suited for you, it doesn't mean people that can use it should not have access to it because there are people who don't.
Kanluwen wrote: Except for y'know, the authentication associated with whatever developers/publishers decide to put on the games...
Kan... sometimes it seems as if just you go out of your way to defend something as blindly as possible.
1. Publishers can do this already, and have. 2. It has nothing to do with the PS4's restrictions (or lack thereof) vs the XBone's built in core restrictions.
The fact that you can't or won't acknowledge this speaks more to a blind fanaticism than anything else.
