Don't know if it has been said, but I didn't see it mentioned. I played a couple games this week and I found a pretty easy tactic to keep my Crimson Hunters alive. I brought an empty wave serpent (just deployed the unit ahead) with a SL upgrade. First turn I moved to get LoS on the quad gun, hit it with the scatter, then let the fired the shield at ignoring cover. Killed it both games like this and still had a useful serpent afterwards, just not shielded.

Shamanlord1961 wrote:
Don't know if it has been said, but I didn't see it mentioned. I played a couple games this week and I found a pretty easy tactic to keep my Crimson Hunters alive. I brought an empty wave serpent (just deployed the unit ahead) with a SL upgrade. First turn I moved to get LoS on the quad gun, hit it with the scatter, then let the fired the shield at ignoring cover. Killed it both games like this and still had a useful serpent afterwards, just not shielded.

shield ignores jink, not cover.

The serpent shield says ignore cover, but usually the cover is worse than the 3+ save it has anyway.

 Kirasu wrote:
If you're going to use warwalkers as anti air with EML.. Just take allied broadsides instead imo.

I'm finding the same thing.

The WW are just not tough enough or effective enough to take our Flyers for their points.

I'm finding that the best Heavy unit is the Fire Prism... just for THAT gun.

 Gangrel767 wrote:
The serpent shield says ignore cover, but usually the cover is worse than the 3+ save it has anyway.

Like anything that ignores cover, it is excellent for Stealthers and Shrouders (like Scouts, Rangers, Pathfinders, jinking vehicles, etc). In my last game of Eldar vs Eldar, the Serpent Shield is an easy way to clear out Rangers from defense lines or towers (which can otherwise be impossible to bust out, less you assault them or bring flamers, both of which require you to be a lot closer than 60").

I'm really excited to see how well that extra serpent shield performs on the table.

I played a 3000 point game against blood angels last night. My first game with the new codex. Nice big game, got to try most of the new toys out. Here are some thoughts.

Iilic was my warlord. I outflanked him along with a unit of 5 Dark Reapers with star shot missiles and an exarch with fast shot, EML and flakk missiles. This unit worked well, Ilic imparting shrouded to the reapers and the reapers giving slow and purposeful to Illic. It did come in handy a few times when I had to reposition them to maintain their cover and they all got to shoot. Also brought 2x6 Pathfinders to come in close to Ilic and the Reapers. That is 4 different potential pinning checks, up to three on one squad. Starshot missiles, 2 pathfinder squads and Illic's split fire.
Illic is pretty cool and the ability to bring in the rangers is great. 140 points to shoot once per round and only wound on a 4+? Ap2 is cool and once per game you should see a 6 to wound for instant death. Giving shrouded to things like warwalkers or dark reapers is cool as well....but 140 points and an HQ slot. I think there is better value in other choices.

I outflanked my squad of 3 warwalkers. I chose scatter lasers and missile launchers with the flakk upgrade, knowing that my friend would be fielding a storm raven. This loadout for the WW is pretty versatile. 4 str 6 shots at bs4 and a twin linked starshot or plasma (reroll scatter dice), is a decent threat to hords, most common armour values and fliers. If your lucky enough to get Jinx for one of your warlocks then plasma missiles with that rerolling the scatter then marines will go down pretty hard.

The combined fire of the walkers and my Reaper exarch took the first two hull points of his gunship and then a warp spider snap shot did the rest on turn two.

A fun unit that I will play again is the Jetbike mounted Autarch with reaper launcher, banshee mask, laser lance and Mantle of the Laughing God. 180 points is a lot but he was an hq that could contribute all game long due to 48" range heavy 2 at BS6 and when needed he can get a powerful charge in, likely killing the model he was in base contact in, no return swing. Everyone piles in. Autarch gets a few str 3 attacks then has to survive any retaliation. Not tooo risky with his 3+ and 4++, then leave at the end of the enemy's assault phase via the Mantle and wreak havoc elsewhere. In my game he suffered no wounds, killed several marines with his reaper launcher and finished off Memphiston's last two wounds on a charge. And now with the improvement to reserves control offered by the Autarch and how many good options eldar have for outflanking and deepstriking units its hard not to take one.

Another great combo ended up being Wave Serpent with 5 dscythe wraithgaurd in it. I knew my opponent had a lot of things in reserve so it was handy to have those dscythes in the waveserpent hanging out in my back field, blasting things with the scatter laser serpent shield combo. Sure enough an assault squad arrived in a nicely clustered formation, shot a bit but was then vaporized by the dcythes. Wraithgaurd pile back in and wait. A second squad arrived in turn 4, he unluckily scattered closer then he wanted to my wave serpent. He used his shooting phase to run out of such a clustered formation but it was futile. They should have just shot their bolt pistols at the nearbye shadow weaver battery for all the good it'd do. The scythe templates killed over half of them and harlequins killed the rest on the charge before any could strike back.

I had a Spirit Seer (dual FOC, both sides used it) so my plan was to turbo boost with my concealed bikes and flat out with the Wave Serpent on turn 4 to my opponents backfield. Positioning so that on turn 5 the wraithgaurd come out and advance on that objective, the bikes just behind them. Bikes still get to shoot and the wraithgaurd get d3 free hits per model as overwatch. Kill what you need to while moving towards the objective, in the assault phase the bikes can move forward to contest/claim the objective. Two tough scoring units, both will sustain some losses getting into position but it is a nifty backfield crashing combo. No cover, ap2. Imagine this on a Doomed squad. To bad doom isn't as easy to get.

hm, what else. Battle focus is amazing. Like the pop up attacks of old. I had a 20 man gaurdian squad on an objective behind a hill that blocked line of sight to most of the board. Using battle focus they creeped up the hill, shot their bright lance and star cannon at bs4, and then slinked away. This unit immobilised a land raider, took two wounds off Memphiston, killed several death company and never took return fire.

Man - another good catch.

I like the idea of Autarch on bike and Reaper....

PsycicSpaceElf wrote:
[...]Using battle focus they creeped up the hill, shot their bright lance and star cannon at bs4[...]

Umm you can't fire heavy weapons with Battle Focus unless they have Relentless, not even snap shots (which they would have been. Move and fire Heavy Weapons at full BS? Who do they think they are, Maugan Ra?)

S.K.Ren wrote:

PsycicSpaceElf wrote:
[...]Using battle focus they creeped up the hill, shot their bright lance and star cannon at bs4[...]

Umm you can't fire heavy weapons with Battle Focus unless they have Relentless, not even snap shots (which they would have been. Move and fire Heavy Weapons at full BS? Who do they think they are, Maugan Ra?)

My new eldar codex says that the gun and its wielder have relentless. So yes, eldar can do this, and it's awesome.

Page 66. First line of the heavy weapon platform entry.

And 20 gaurdians with 2 heavy weapons are cheaper and better than Maugen Ra.

Oh really?! Holy crap I missed that
Wow, Guardians got even better.

PsycicSpaceElf wrote:

S.K.Ren wrote:

PsycicSpaceElf wrote:
[...]Using battle focus they creeped up the hill, shot their bright lance and star cannon at bs4[...]

Umm you can't fire heavy weapons with Battle Focus unless they have Relentless, not even snap shots (which they would have been. Move and fire Heavy Weapons at full BS? Who do they think they are, Maugan Ra?)

My new eldar codex says that the gun and its wielder have relentless. So yes, eldar can do this, and it's awesome.

Page 66. First line of the heavy weapon platform entry.

And 20 gaurdians with 2 heavy weapons are cheaper and better than Maugen Ra.

Holy Nutballs!!!

I just read that.

Question is... Which heavy weapons do you go for?

Puscifer wrote:

PsycicSpaceElf wrote:

S.K.Ren wrote:

PsycicSpaceElf wrote:
[...]Using battle focus they creeped up the hill, shot their bright lance and star cannon at bs4[...]

Umm you can't fire heavy weapons with Battle Focus unless they have Relentless, not even snap shots (which they would have been. Move and fire Heavy Weapons at full BS? Who do they think they are, Maugan Ra?)

My new eldar codex says that the gun and its wielder have relentless. So yes, eldar can do this, and it's awesome.

Page 66. First line of the heavy weapon platform entry.

And 20 gaurdians with 2 heavy weapons are cheaper and better than Maugen Ra.

Holy Nutballs!!!

I just read that.

Question is... Which heavy weapons do you go for?

Tough choice but for the gaurdians I think I'll stick with bright lance and star cannon. You can hurt anything in the game at a distance, popping out from behind something, shooting, moving back, and if something comes over there to get you there should be a decent chance that you can mitigate this further with Battle Focus, either letting them close the distance and then double moving towards it on your turn to get off firsts with a full strength squad dealing out 36 shuriken shots, 1str 8 ap2 and 2 str 6 ap2 shots from the platforms, or you use battle focus to play keep away, shooting the platforms as you go.

For my game next week I will take as many missile launchers in as many different squads as possible. Our version of krak missiles cause pinning now and I want to experiment with a list that tries to take advantage of the high prevalence of pinning weapons in our new codex. My flier arrived in the mail a couple of days ago. It was supposed to be a crimson hunter but it is a hemlock. Was mad at first but I think I will keep it. If I have multiple gaurdian squads, ranger squads, a reaper squad, Illic, shadow weaver battery all causing seperate pinning checks, combined with the mind shock pod, you can really mess up your opponents plans. I will take 5 warlocks and hope for horrify. I laugh imagining multiple squads of my friends blood angels pinned or running while I gun down the units that are functional or send in some dscythe wielders to torch them where they huddle. The hemlock can be shot down fairly easily but for the disruption it causes for those two turns it might be worth it.

Has the possibility of an Eldar air superiority force been discussed? I'm not thinking it will be super competitive WAAC or anything, but here's the idea.

Take 3 flyers, probably 3 hunters, maybe 2 hunters and a hemlock. Take an autarch to try and manipulate reserves rolls, a farseer to try to and get the divination power that lets you roll 3d6 and pick what you want (scrier's gaze?). Take rangers to try and snipe or remove opponents ground AA, nightspinners for the torrent template to get rid of AA in cover. Once you have established air dominance, they should have a tough time dealing with 3 flyers, meanwhile they are taking out a high-priority target every turn. I would try this out myself, but I don't have the models or money for the hunters atm.

j.d.hart wrote:
Has the possibility of an Eldar air superiority force been discussed? I'm not thinking it will be super competitive WAAC or anything, but here's the idea.

Take 3 flyers, probably 3 hunters, maybe 2 hunters and a hemlock. Take an autarch to try and manipulate reserves rolls, a farseer to try to and get the divination power that lets you roll 3d6 and pick what you want (scrier's gaze?). Take rangers to try and snipe or remove opponents ground AA, nightspinners for the torrent template to get rid of AA in cover. Once you have established air dominance, they should have a tough time dealing with 3 flyers, meanwhile they are taking out a high-priority target every turn. I would try this out myself, but I don't have the models or money for the hunters atm.

If you want to go completely over the top, ally in some Dark Eldar for the Voidraven in the HS slot... get some large blast horde-killing missiles in the bargain.

j.d.hart wrote:
Has the possibility of an Eldar air superiority force been discussed? I'm not thinking it will be super competitive WAAC or anything, but here's the idea.

Take 3 flyers, probably 3 hunters, maybe 2 hunters and a hemlock. Take an autarch to try and manipulate reserves rolls, a farseer to try to and get the divination power that lets you roll 3d6 and pick what you want (scrier's gaze?). Take rangers to try and snipe or remove opponents ground AA, nightspinners for the torrent template to get rid of AA in cover. Once you have established air dominance, they should have a tough time dealing with 3 flyers, meanwhile they are taking out a high-priority target every turn. I would try this out myself, but I don't have the models or money for the hunters atm.

Only issue i really see is not being able to count on anything. I dont want to try and do anything. I want to just do. Pew pew pew!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PsycicSpaceElf wrote:

My flier arrived in the mail a couple of days ago. It was supposed to be a crimson hunter but it is a hemlock. Was mad at first but I think I will keep it.

Isnt it a dual kit?

 Uriels_Flame wrote:

j.d.hart wrote:
Has the possibility of an Eldar air superiority force been discussed? I'm not thinking it will be super competitive WAAC or anything, but here's the idea.

Take 3 flyers, probably 3 hunters, maybe 2 hunters and a hemlock. Take an autarch to try and manipulate reserves rolls, a farseer to try to and get the divination power that lets you roll 3d6 and pick what you want (scrier's gaze?). Take rangers to try and snipe or remove opponents ground AA, nightspinners for the torrent template to get rid of AA in cover. Once you have established air dominance, they should have a tough time dealing with 3 flyers, meanwhile they are taking out a high-priority target every turn. I would try this out myself, but I don't have the models or money for the hunters atm.

Only issue i really see is not being able to count on anything. I dont want to try and do anything. I want to just do. Pew pew pew!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PsycicSpaceElf wrote:

My flier arrived in the mail a couple of days ago. It was supposed to be a crimson hunter but it is a hemlock. Was mad at first but I think I will keep it.

Isnt it a dual kit?

I haven't opened the box yet but only the Hemlock is named and pictured on the box. I will check it out.

Edit: well so it is. hmmmmmm.. lol I still wanna try a bit of hemlock shennanigans but the crimson hunter will be more useful to me overall.

Oh how I wish Doom were the primaris power in Runes of Fate. This power remains the best force magnifier for the army, and its even better now that it can affect vehicles.

Think of all the weapons in our codex that have special rules associated with the wound roll. Rending on sniper rifles, blade storm, monofilament rule, distort rule. And of course there's that pesky str 3 thing.

Ya just gotsta have doom.


It'd be pretty frustrating to try to get Doom and end up with Guide, Eldritch Storm and Death Mission though.

I'm debating the value of a spiritseer over a farseer when we have the WRJ (Windrider Jetbikes). Sure the WG are more durable but with reserves and turbo boosting the troops are 300pts for 6x 3 man sqauds as opposed to 1x 5 man squad with WS. My plan was to run Harlies, put Eldrad in there, and the second HQ. The spiritseer has merit with RoBattle, and making the few WG units I have scoring, but the Farseer seems to have so much more going for it. So I guess I'm wondering: is taking the spiritseer a sentence to spamming max amounts of Wraith_____? Do the RoBattle mean enough?

For reference my list was something like
Eldrad
Spiritseer
3x WRJ
3x WRJ
3x WRJ
5x WG with WS
5x WG with WS
1x C. Hunter
10x Harlies, all da trimmin's
2x Fire Prism
1x Nightspinner

Is it better to have those WG scoring or drop them for more WRJ and a Farseer?

Your list doesn't seem to have enough long range FP.

Personally, I would drop Eldrad and the EJB or WRJ as you call them in favour of more wraith or Scatter Laser and Shuriken Cannon Wave Serpents.

Those things have become brutal and will bring more to your army.

I might drop the Nightspinner too. It doesn't do enough for me.

Great to see someone using multiple Fire Prism. Point for point it seems to be the best tank in the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the subject of weapon platforms in Guardian Squads, I'm testing dual SL and 1 SL and STC builds.

The other weapons have merit, but these two builds look like they will be better.

Puscifer wrote:
STC

STC?

Starcannon? (odd abbreviation though..) Took me a while to work out what FP was! People use far too many acronyms on here, even the built in thing doesn't have them.

Sorry, yeah... Starcannon.

 warpspider89 wrote:

STC?

I'm guessing it means Starcannon.

This is what I've been running at 1500pts:

1. Farseer – 130pts.
w/ Runes of Witnessing, Spirit Stone of Anath’lan.

2. Spiritseer – 100pts.
w/ Faolchú’s Wing.

3. Wraithguard Squad – 320pts.
w/ 10 x Members, Wraithcannons.

4. Guardian Defender Squad – 90pts.
w/ 10 x Members.

• Wave Serpent – 145pts.
w/ TL – Scatter Lasers, Shuriken Cannon, Holo-fields.

5. Windrider Jetbike Squad – 51pts.
w/ 3 x Members.

6. Warp Spider Squad – 105pts.
w/ 5 x Members, Exarch.

7. Crimson Hunter – 190pts.
w/ Crimson Hunter Exarch, Marksman’s Eye.

8. Dark Reaper Squad – 141pts.
w/ 3 x Members, Starshot Missiles, Exarch; Fast Shot, Night Vision.

9. Baron Sathonyx – 105pts.

10. Kabalite Warrior Squad – 45pts.
w/ 5 x Members.

• Venom – 75pts.
w/ 2 x Splinter Cannons, Nightshield.

Total = 1497pts.

This list has performed very well in the few times that I've used it. Of course, I'm reliant on getting Fortune and/or Protect on the Spiritseer however, even without Fortune this list has performed well.

The idea is that the Wraithguard and co. move-up to control the centre-field whilst drawing fire from the other units. This usually gives me about 3 turns before my opponent realises that it's not worth his time to shoot the Wraithguard and concentrates on my smaller squads but by then, it's usually too late.

Control the centre, control the game - that's my mantra

Iranna.

PsycicSpaceElf wrote:

I haven't opened the box yet but only the Hemlock is named and pictured on the box. I will check it out.

Edit: well so it is. hmmmmmm.. lol I still wanna try a bit of hemlock shennanigans but the crimson hunter will be more useful to me overall.

Magnetise for both.
I'll be working to get the tail and wing ridges, and the back-of-the-cockpit sections magnetised, along with the guns.
Painting them that way would be a pain, though.

Swooping Hawks...

Now, this is a unit that is much maligned in Eldar armies.

Some say too expensive... Too fragile... Too weak... I think otherwise.

This unit is more of a scalpel in an army of sledgehammers and there are ways to make this unit über.

Here's what I think could work...

1) Go big or go home. Six Hawks minimum. You get that great cover ignoring pie plate on a DS and then you can shoot the living bejesus out of what you've bombed.

2) Go crazy... Take more than one squad. Two squads will pretty much destroy a hordesque unit of stuff with the pies and sixty plus shots. Then you run the squads into cover and if they're around the next turn... See below for ways to make them survive... You can either repeat the process again next turn or go after a vehicle. Ten Haywire Grenades in assault will destroy any ground based vehicle.

3) Ways of making them survive... Trickery. Eldar have great distraction units. Wraithknights in particular are great for this, as are large defender squads and other prime dmg dealing targets. Present your enemy with a "better" target and watch as your Hawks either blast the bejesus out of another unit or tank or bugger off next turn to do it all over again.

I think they can be made to work with big results.

Well i don't know. I think i need to buy some Swooping Hawks of my own and try them out. Give the Exarch a Sunrifle or Hawks talon and it makes the squad something the enemy just cant ignore. I dont think you'll be killing too much with them unless your also fighting a majority toughness 3 army, then they will go to town.

I agree that they are a very precise unit with no scatter off the Deep strike, and cleaver use of battle focus and range 24 can mitigate some of the "jump down, shoot something and just die". Further play testing will be required.

Overall the list i think we'll see abused most will be mass wave serpent. in 1850 i managed to squeeze in 8 wave serpents, and 2 fire prisms, 6 squads of 5 man dire avengers, and two 5 man squads of fire dragons. Half the wave werpents had brightlance, the other half scatter laser (though all scatter is probably the better choice). and then a cheapo Spiritseer to lead the army lol. there was even enough points to get holofields/spiritstones on the fire prisms, and a couple holofields for the fire dragon wave serpents. And really all you have to do is drop a squad of dire avengers and a wave serpent to free enough points to really go to town on vehicle upgrades if you like.

I will never play this list as it is way too cheeseballer, but i think they did make the serpent shield a little too good this edition....

The wave serpent army should do pretty well, especially when they are capable of dumping out 7 twinlinked S6 shots and 2 to 7 twin linked S7 shots that ignore cover. Toss in the 4+ save and you're fine.

As for Swooping hawks, I figure on average you'll do about 10 kills vs GEQ and 3 kills vs MEQ and that is including the pie plate. Spiders however will do 9 kills ( ap - but it is instant death) against GEQs and 5 kills vs MEQ. 30 more points but you get a 3+ save and a superior move.

GTKA666 wrote:

Shamanlord1961 wrote:
Don't know if it has been said, but I didn't see it mentioned. I played a couple games this week and I found a pretty easy tactic to keep my Crimson Hunters alive. I brought an empty wave serpent (just deployed the unit ahead) with a SL upgrade. First turn I moved to get LoS on the quad gun, hit it with the scatter, then let the fired the shield at ignoring cover. Killed it both games like this and still had a useful serpent afterwards, just not shielded.

shield ignores jink, not cover.

Incorrect. The Reaper Rangefinder ignores Jink. The Serpent Shield weapon ignores cover. Of course its a AP- attack and so not so useful against models with good armor saves.

 Deadlytoaster wrote:
Well i don't know. I think i need to buy some Swooping Hawks of my own and try them out. Give the Exarch a Sunrifle or Hawks talon and it makes the squad something the enemy just cant ignore. I dont think you'll be killing too much with them unless your also fighting a majority toughness 3 army, then they will go to town.

Reminds me a lot of Zaggstruck for the Orks. He's a beast on the charge, but if you get stuck with something you don't kill you become fodder.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ravenous D wrote:
As for Swooping hawks, I figure on average you'll do about 10 kills vs GEQ and 3 kills vs MEQ and that is including the pie plate. Spiders however will do 9 kills ( ap - but it is instant death) against GEQs and 5 kills vs MEQ. 30 more points but you get a 3+ save and a superior move.

+1

I'm a spider fan and feel like they do the job better and have more utility. Swooping hawks did graduate from <DUNCE> to middle school (Banshees currently wear that hat now).

Maybe they'll release a supplement that allows me to take spiders as troops - then I'll take Hawks for my fast slot

Saturation fire, on average its getting 2 to 7 shots that will probably be twin linked from a scatter laser, that is usually enough to take down good saves. It will be wounding most things on 2s.

It can easily pump out 10 wounds, that's 3-4 marines dead, or 1 or 2 terminators. Not to mention the rest of the army can easily spam ap2 to deal with terminators easily.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ravenous D wrote:
As for Swooping hawks, I figure on average you'll do about 10 kills vs GEQ and 3 kills vs MEQ and that is including the pie plate. Spiders however will do 9 kills ( ap - but it is instant death) against GEQs and 5 kills vs MEQ. 30 more points but you get a 3+ save and a superior move.

+1

I'm a spider fan and feel like they do the job better and have more utility. Swooping hawks did graduate from <DUNCE> to middle school (Banshees currently wear that hat now).

Maybe they're release a supplement that allows me to take spiders as troops - then I'll take Hawks for my fast slot

Spiders are my favourite aspect, always have been, too bad they wrote Kaelor out of the new book.

I am guessing experiences differ. I find that fireprisms might survive the whole game but are just not reliable enough to do a lot of damage. Against jinking vehicles with jsut one BS4 shot ... meh. I actually prefer the cheaper nightspinner ...

I also love the autarch .. but with fusion, lance, mask, bike and mantle ... expensive ... 150 points but pretty brutal.

The fast attack slot is just too crowded. Warp Spiders seem a must to me. They do everything ... AA, AT, AI ... And I have had good luck withe Hunter ... yes it is weaksauce but using a little reserve manipulation it can shine.

Puscifer wrote:
Swooping Hawks...

Now, this is a unit that is much maligned in Eldar armies.

Some say too expensive... Too fragile... Too weak... I think otherwise.

This unit is more of a scalpel in an army of sledgehammers and there are ways to make this unit über.

Here's what I think could work...

1) Go big or go home. Six Hawks minimum. You get that great cover ignoring pie plate on a DS and then you can shoot the living bejesus out of what you've bombed.

2) Go crazy... Take more than one squad. Two squads will pretty much destroy a hordesque unit of stuff with the pies and sixty plus shots. Then you run the squads into cover and if they're around the next turn... See below for ways to make them survive... You can either repeat the process again next turn or go after a vehicle. Ten Haywire Grenades in assault will destroy any ground based vehicle.

3) Ways of making them survive... Trickery. Eldar have great distraction units. Wraithknights in particular are great for this, as are large defender squads and other prime dmg dealing targets. Present your enemy with a "better" target and watch as your Hawks either blast the bejesus out of another unit or tank or bugger off next turn to do it all over again.

I think they can be made to work with big results.

Hawks are good now imo and I'm adding a full ten strong squad to my 1500 list with an Exarch with Hawks Talon. They arrive and blow up a cheap horde that's objective camping, throw lots of shots into them before running off and can make charges hard work even for fast assault units.

A ten man squad will destroy a Guard Heavy Weapons Squad each turn even if they have cover saves.

They are also the best unit for taking down Walkers in close combat as Haywire grenades strike at initiative and are less likely to explode the target than Melta Bombs.

EDIT: The Grenade Pack also can be dropped on a different unit to the one you shoot so long as the squad lands somewhere they don't have LOS to the grenade packed unit. The rules say you must shoot it "If possible" but the Grenade Pack attack doesn't need LOS to fire.

Lastly there is no other unit that can cross the entire table in a single turn to contest an objective. Skyleap on turn 4, arrive turn 5 and contest. Hit n Run is a must imo so they can't be bogged down in combat as they will only fail to disengage if you roll a 6.

The issue was not whether Hawks were good ... they are. The issue is are they better than other fast attack choices ... shining spears can be made to work too ... I'm not taking them though.

Rob451 wrote:

EDIT: The Grenade Pack also can be dropped on a different unit to the one you shoot so long as the squad lands somewhere they don't have LOS to the grenade packed unit. The rules say you must shoot it "If possible" but the Grenade Pack attack doesn't need LOS to fire.

More eldar trickery

But (provided this is true), wouldn't this tactic be better with a smaller squad to negate said LOS issue?

Well, 6 is the minimum to make the pie.

I was thinking of taking 2 squads of 6 or one squad of 10, but I don't know if I can justify taking 2 squads of 10.

It's not that it's a points sink, it really isn't, but I need to have answers to other things.

It seems to me that each squad has a sweet spot when it comes to squad size.

Avengers: 10.

Dragons: 6.

Scorpions: 10

Banshees: If you take them (which you shouldn't because they are terrible) 10.

Hawks: 6, but they can be very effective in 10s.

Spiders: The jury is out for me on their number. They can be really good in large numbers if hunting vehicles and performing assassination runs.

Spears: I don't like them or know enough to comment on this unit.

Hunters: 1 and only 1 and that is the Exarch.

Reapers: Now, I want to say a full squad of 10, but I think 6 might be a really good number. Also, I wouldn't bother equipping the Exarch with anything but a Reaper Launcher. The Starswarm Missiles are actually really good and with Fast Shot, you basically turn your Exarch into a better Heavy Bolter. Add Starstrike to everything.

 Uriels_Flame wrote:

Rob451 wrote:

EDIT: The Grenade Pack also can be dropped on a different unit to the one you shoot so long as the squad lands somewhere they don't have LOS to the grenade packed unit. The rules say you must shoot it "If possible" but the Grenade Pack attack doesn't need LOS to fire.

More eldar trickery

But (provided this is true), wouldn't this tactic be better with a smaller squad to negate said LOS issue?

It's a little easier but considering that the grenade pack is only used when deep striking the squad will be in a compact formation anyway. The other way is to land so one squad member is within 24" of the grenade pack target and then use Battle Focus to run the squad out of range of that unit but in range of another before shooting.

Oh, I like that... I'm glad I started this thread

Puscifer wrote:Swooping Hawks...

Now, this is a unit that is much maligned in Eldar armies.

Some say too expensive... Too fragile... Too weak... I think otherwise

In my opinion, the way to run swooping Hawks is as follows:

A unit of 6, with an Exarch with Hawk's Talon. It's only a little over 100 points, so is nice and cheap. You can even forego the Exarch and his weapon if you want, putting the unit to only 96 points. Deep Strike this unit right next to an enemy tank. I literally mean, right next to. Use the Grenade Pack to bomb a nice horde unit, preferably one that's objective camping or hugging cover. Just select the best target. Make sure you DS the Hawks so said vehicle is obscuring their view to the unit they just bombed, so you don't have to shoot at them. Then, use the Exarch's S5 weapon, plus a Haywire Grenade, to blast the back of this tank, doing so damage, if not taking it out. You can run, and then shoot, if you need to get round the back. If your opponent shoots the Hawks, well, they've done their bit and he's just wasted shots he could be shooting at the rest of your force. If he ignores them, they can charge the same vehicle and destroy outright, if they didn't before, or just be a general pain.

Whilst the Hawks do face stiff competition from the Spiders, I think they serve very different roles, so it's not usually an option about which unit is simply the superior, it's about which one's best for the list. For example, in one of my lists I've written, there was plenty of AP3/AP2 but not much in the way of dealing with Hordes. I'd have liked something else to help take them out. I had just over 100 points to spend, so I added in the above unit.

 The Shadow wrote:

Puscifer wrote:Swooping Hawks...

Now, this is a unit that is much maligned in Eldar armies.

Some say too expensive... Too fragile... Too weak... I think otherwise

In my opinion, the way to run swooping Hawks is as follows:

A unit of 6, with an Exarch with Hawk's Talon. It's only a little over 100 points, so is nice and cheap. You can even forego the Exarch and his weapon if you want, putting the unit to only 96 points. Deep Strike this unit right next to an enemy tank. I literally mean, right next to. Use the Grenade Pack to bomb a nice horde unit, preferably one that's objective camping or hugging cover. Just select the best target. Make sure you DS the Hawks so said vehicle is obscuring their view to the unit they just bombed, so you don't have to shoot at them. Then, use the Exarch's S5 weapon, plus a Haywire Grenade, to blast the back of this tank, doing so damage, if not taking it out. You can run, and then shoot, if you need to get round the back. If your opponent shoots the Hawks, well, they've done their bit and he's just wasted shots he could be shooting at the rest of your force. If he ignores them, they can charge the same vehicle and destroy outright, if they didn't before, or just be a general pain.

Whilst the Hawks do face stiff competition from the Spiders, I think they serve very different roles, so it's not usually an option about which unit is simply the superior, it's about which one's best for the list. For example, in one of my lists I've written, there was plenty of AP3/AP2 but not much in the way of dealing with Hordes. I'd have liked something else to help take them out. I had just over 100 points to spend, so I added in the above unit.

The Deepstrike tactic to pop a Tank is best with Warp Spiders and it fits their role perfectly. I actually prefer them to Fire Dragons which have become way too expensive to field when we need points for other answers.

I'd be more inclined to use a small squad to drop the bomb and then run behind the tank, just out of sight from the rest of the army. Then again though, if someone was to target the Hawks, they would be wasting shots vs a unit that had done it's job.

There is another reason to field a full squad though... Long Fangs and others of their ilk. Those units can really put the hurt on Eldar and if you can take out a unit of Long Fangs or Lootas, you are doing well.

I'm thinking, possibly one of unit of 10 and a small unit of Spiders to do the DS trick vs the back of Tanks. Str 7 vs Tanks and I:3 targets is too good to ignore.

Its like Hot Dogs and Buns all over again.

Swooping Hawk pack has 5 Hawks and you need 6 for the pie plate. Noooooo!

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:
Its like Hot Dogs and Buns all over again.

Swooping Hawk pack has 5 Hawks and you need 6 for the pie plate. Noooooo!

Nope - you get 6 in the box.

Puscifer wrote:

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:
Its like Hot Dogs and Buns all over again.

Swooping Hawk pack has 5 Hawks and you need 6 for the pie plate. Noooooo!

Nope - you 6 in the box.

Oh? Was it some of the older aspects that got 5 then? Cause I have 5 older Banshees and 5 older Warp Spiders. Either that or I lost one of each along the way....which is quite possible.

They all get six, except DA, Reapers and Warp Spiders.

When I got most of mine they were 2 to a blister.

 Gangrel767 wrote:

When I got most of mine they were 2 to a blister.

When I got most of my Aspect Warriors I got them directly from GW as bits. :(

Back on topic, I was wondering if anyone had given thought to a unit of 3-ish Warlocks on Jetbikes as an escort for an Autarch on a bike. I know that most people tend to think of Warlocks as only going well with a Farseer, but I'm thinking that if you set up a EJB Autarch for melee combat that he would really benefit from some of those Warlock powers (to say nothing of giving him three more S9 attacks to supplement the ubiquitous Fusion Gun as well).

I'm not convinced that it is a better choice than just putting him with some Shining Spears, but it might be worth exploring a bit. Might be a better option than just running him alone with the Mantle.

360 Points gets you:
-Autarch w/Jetbike, Banshee Mask, Fusion Gun, Shard of Anaris
-4 Warlocks w/Jetbike, Singing Spear

vs.
-Autarch w/Jetbike, Banshee Mask, Fusion Gun, Shard of Anaris
-5 Shining Spears w/Exarch, Star Lance, Hit&Run and Monster Hunter
(305 pts)

Mantle just creates so many more problems for your opponent. Your opponent now has 2 units to shoot at instead of just one large deathstar. The autarch is much more survivable and will draw a lot of fire with that fusion gun, taking fire off your other jetbikes.

 Magc8Ball wrote:


Back on topic, I was wondering if anyone had given thought to a unit of 3-ish Warlocks on Jetbikes as an escort for an Autarch on a bike. I know that most people tend to think of Warlocks as only going well with a Farseer, but I'm thinking that if you set up a EJB Autarch for melee combat that he would really benefit from some of those Warlock powers (to say nothing of giving him three more S9 attacks to supplement the ubiquitous Fusion Gun as well).

Actually - yes. I've got seerer council bikes so splitting them up isn't an issue, but that little squad would "have" to be dealt with and the number of rolls (pending how many locks you take) would hopefully grant you the powers your looking for while still giving you the ability to affect reserve rolls.

I'll add this here for convenience:

Army Of Iyanden Rules:

Voice of Twilight - replaces Conceal as the Primaris
Blessing. Warp Charge 2.
Gives ALL Wraith BATTLE FOCUS AND FURIOUS CHARGE within a 12" bubble.

Warlord Traits:

1) Roll a D3 - Warlord gets this many rerolls for To Hit, To Wound, Armour Pen and Saves.
2) All friendly units FNP 6+ within 12".
3) Warlord and unit - Hatred.
4) Spirit Mark up to two enemy units per turn.
5) +1 to Deny The Witch.
6) Warlord ReRolls all failed armour saves. If he loses a wound, he loses this trait.

Gifts of Asuryan

Celestial Lance
It's a lance like the Shining Spears get with AP2 and Str 8 when shooting. Has Spirit Shatter: if you kill a Character or MC put a large blast where it died. Str is equal to the dead things toughness. AP -

Soulshrive
AP 2 Master Crafted Melee weapon with STR 3* and Spiritstealer - add one to the strength of the weapon for each unsaved wound made.

Wraithforge Stone
During the Movement Phase, nominate a single Wraithlord or Wraithknight and roll a D6. 1 or 2, nothing happens. 3+ it regains a wound suffered earlier in the battle.

Guardian Helm of Xellethon
Auto Pass Look Out Sir when in WG or WB units. WG and WB in this unit can make and accept challenges.

Spear of Teuthlas - Psyker Only.
Singing Spear, Str 9 at range. Has Rending, Armourbane and Fleshbane.

Heroes of Iyanden.
A Wraithlord or Wraithknight may be the Warlord.

Shadow Council.
5 Spiritseers for one HQ.

Yeah, the Iyandan stuff is looking pretty good. Most of those Warlord traits on a Wraithknight, could end up working out super well, and you can get more spiritseers....

I'll probably pick this up.

Good god like Wraiths weren't good enough already. I really hope they make a Harlequins supplement.

Losing conceal is kind of a bummer though. Warlocks still keep it, right?

 Crimson wrote:
Losing conceal is kind of a bummer though. Warlocks still keep it, right?

Yeah... It's Spiritseer only.

I'm kinda bummed out over the loss of Conceal too, but that new power solves the Wraiths greatest disadvantage... Speed.

The FC is icing on the cake.

So how exactly does this relates to the regular Eldar Codex? Do Iyanden armies have access to all the normal units and Remnants of Glory? With multiple FOCs do they all have to be of Iyanden, or can we mix? Or can they ally with regular Eldar?

 Crimson wrote:
So how exactly does this relates to the regular Eldar Codex? Do Iyanden armies have access to all the normal units and Remnants of Glory? With multiple FOCs do they all have to be of Iyanden, or can we mix? Or can they ally with regular Eldar?

Iyanden armies have no restricted units.

Can use Remnants, but IMO, the Iyanden ones are much better. You can't use both on the same character.

No rules or text regarding multiple foc or allying with Codex Eldar. I would have thought not though as it is still an Eldar army.

anyword on whether they have access to the special.characters? avatar? or the plords?
any FOC changes?

thanks

 zachwho wrote:
anyword on whether they have access to the special.characters? avatar? or the plords?
any FOC changes?

thanks

No unit restrictions.

Only change is that Spiritseers can be taken as five to a single hq.

So you can have Eldrad in this army?

 Crimson wrote:
So you can have Eldrad in this army?

NO UNIT RESTRICTIONS

Being able to spam spiritseers, seems quite awesome to me. Two rolls on the fantastic runes of battle chart. Just throw them in with Direavengers, or Guardians if you want.

A lot of those Warlord traits really look like it will benefit from having a Wraithknight as the Warlord. Would make it pretty tough to get slay the Warlord.

Puscifer wrote:

NO UNIT RESTRICTIONS

Yes, okay, I get it. Just seems too good to be true.

And many thanks for the info.

 Sasori wrote:
Being able to spam spiritseers, seems quite awesome to me. Two rolls on the fantastic runes of battle chart. Just throw them in with Direavengers, or Guardians if you want.

A lot of those Warlord traits really look like it will benefit from having a Wraithknight as the Warlord. Would make it pretty tough to get slay the Warlord.

Definitely.

I'm seriously considering taking Yriel in a WB squad with a Spiritseer with the Helm. Auto pass on Look Out Sir and accepting/making challenges while Yriel can beat face is brilliant. Also... If you roll the +1 save power, Yriel becomes über.

Puscifer wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
Being able to spam spiritseers, seems quite awesome to me. Two rolls on the fantastic runes of battle chart. Just throw them in with Direavengers, or Guardians if you want.

A lot of those Warlord traits really look like it will benefit from having a Wraithknight as the Warlord. Would make it pretty tough to get slay the Warlord.

Definitely.

I'm seriously considering taking Yriel in a WB squad with a Spiritseer with the Helm. Auto pass on Look Out Sir and accepting/making challenges while Yriel can beat face is brilliant. Also... If you roll the +1 save power, Yriel becomes über.

Yriel, is intreasting, that's to be sure.

I think you may be able to make a stronger list with the Iyandan, supplement as Spirtseers are really good. It's too bad they can't take a Jetbike! I still think it's a trap to make an all Wraith Army though, but you can really supplement some in, that will be more effective.

What are the drawbacks? Aside from "no Conceal" and different Warlord Traits (which may or may not be an advantage) I don't see a single reason to NOT run that list over a standard codex list.

Just to clarify do Warp Spiders shoot at strength 7 against vehicles?

What's the consensus on Remnants of Glory with regards to items that don't take a weapon slot? My logic says I can equip an Autarch with a Jetbike, Banshee Mask, Fusion Gun, and Scorpion Chainsword with The Phoenix Gem, Mantle of the Laughing God, and the Firesabre swapped in for the chainsword.

Expensive, but should be amazing anti-horde and a great character hunter if I've got the right idea.

 Heezayy wrote:
Just to clarify do Warp Spiders shoot at strength 7 against vehicles?

Yes. and any units with I3 or below.

I know a lot of people have been poo pooing the warlock spell enfeeble and I think that is a mistake.

Aside from the obvious benefits, like having your WG strike before Marines in CC, it has synergy with Warp Spiders! If they around a warlock/spiritseer that rolled that spell then the odds are that they will be striking S7.

Added the Iyanden update to 1st page

 warpspider89 wrote:
I know a lot of people have been poo pooing the warlock spell enfeeble and I think that is a mistake.

Aside from the obvious benefits, like having your WG strike before Marines in CC, it has synergy with Warp Spiders! If they around a warlock/spiritseer that rolled that spell then the odds are that they will be striking S7.

I don't think anyone here has said Enhance/Drain is a bad Spell?

heck yes!!! my eldar ZILLA list got even better!

they even made a remanant that heals ON TOP of the heal spell and spritseer councils?!?! awesome!!

Seems like their should be sooome downside to Iyanden besides having to take better warlord traits and better artifacts..

In fact, that isn't even a downside. Which makes sense. No way they don't meet their sales targets for the new models once the supplement comes out.

 Sasori wrote:

 warpspider89 wrote:
I know a lot of people have been poo pooing the warlock spell enfeeble and I think that is a mistake.

Aside from the obvious benefits, like having your WG strike before Marines in CC, it has synergy with Warp Spiders! If they around a warlock/spiritseer that rolled that spell then the odds are that they will be striking S7.

I don't think anyone here has said Enhance/Drain is a bad Spell?

It has much better synergy with the Nightspinner, the jump from S6 to S7 isn't that major as Spiders wound most infantry on 2's anyway. The jump from S7 to S8 is pretty big though, as it means you can now ID T4. Admittedly there aren't a whole lot of multi wound models that have I4 to begin with, Nobz, Tau Suits and Wraiths are all I3 or worse to begin with, and good luck getting the power off on Paladins.

Ok... I'm glad I waited for Codex Iyanden.

Only two types of Eldar have interested me in the last few months... Wraiths and Harlequins.

At least one of them got a shiny ruleset.

I thought I'd go over each unit that I'm considering for my army... WARNING... SOME OF THIS IS FLUFFY AND POWERFUL

Asurmen.
According to some fluff, he actually comes from Iyanden. This guy is a beast, but with the Iyanden traits he's even better.

Yriel.
Yup... always been a fan and when fielded with a big WB squad and a Spiritseer with the Helm, he actually becomes more survivable. Oh... the Protect power makes him tough as old boots.

Spiritseers.
You'll never take five unless you're playing a massive game. Too good not to take. The new primaris is very powerful.

Wraithguard and Wraithblades.
Got a crazy boost with the new stuff. They are also a staple of the army. I think a couple of small squads of Guard with Cannon on foot, a couple of squads with Scythes in Scatter Serpents and one big unit of Blades with Swords. Points depending of course.

Dire Avengers.
Apparently, the first shrine was on Iyanden.

Windride... NO!!!
Sorry... but I'm bucking the trend here. Great unit, but this is a different kind of Eldar here.

Hemlock.
When reading the tactical section in Codex Iyanden, I realised that the fighter has it's merits. What is a Wraith's biggest weakness? Hordes and rank and file. This helps... a lot.

Wraithlord.
Only taking one. Might go with a double SL build to sure up the anti infantry ranged firepower.

Wraithknight.
Two in large games. Needed because they are the best distraction in a Wraith army and take all the Firepower away from the rest of the army. Suncannon and SL on one or both?

Wraithseer.
Great unit. Take this instead of Avatar.

Am I the only one who thinks the new primaris is trash?

Wraithguard - no effect until they're already in weapons range - doesn't get you there any faster. Battle focus is unreliable without fleet. What are you going to do with it anyway? Run into cover that you would have had anyway with conceal?

Wraithblades - Furious charge is worse than that +1 strength power that only costs 1 warp charge.

Wraithlords - Benefit the most.

Wraithknight - Can't go above S10, some use from Battle Focus.

I would choose conceal over this even if it weren't for the fact that conceal is only one charge allowing me to use another power.

 Temujin wrote:

I would choose conceal over this even if it weren't for the fact that conceal is only one charge allowing me to use another power.

I definitely agree.

 Temujin wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks the new primaris is trash?

Wraithguard - no effect until they're already in weapons range - doesn't get you there any faster. Battle focus is unreliable without fleet. What are you going to do with it anyway? Run into cover that you would have had anyway with conceal?

Wraithblades - Furious charge is worse than that +1 strength power that only costs 1 warp charge.

Wraithlords - Benefit the most.

Wraithknight - Can't go above S10, some use from Battle Focus.

I would choose conceal over this even if it weren't for the fact that conceal is only one charge allowing me to use another power.

Battle Focus lets you run out of assault range, it helps Wraithcannon Guard the most but it will still help Scythe Guard to avoid multiple charges which could get past their overwatch. Certainly it seems like it will benefit Wraithguard armies which are using Serpents more than ones which are walking. I'm thinking you should ally in the Baron if you still want to use a blob of walking Guard.

Furious Charge for Wraithblades is quite nice actually, the jump from S6 to S7 isn't that great but the jump from 7 to 8 is. Axe's get S8 on the charge, which lets them hurt characters and Paladin type units. Because it looks like this power is an AOE you can cover multiple units with a single casting, which leaves your other Spiritseers free to cast the +1 power as well if you have it. Obviously Wraithlords get the most out of it, with the near compulsory Sword upgrade (+1S and 3 reliable hits is a bargain for its points) you get up to S10 without smashing.

Powerguy wrote:
Battle Focus lets you run out of assault range, it helps Wraithcannon Guard the most but it will still help Scythe Guard to avoid multiple charges which could get past their overwatch. Certainly it seems like it will benefit Wraithguard armies which are using Serpents more than ones which are walking. I'm thinking you should ally in the Baron if you still want to use a blob of walking Guard.

No battle focus on ANY wraith units.

So Spear of Teuthlas is a Singing Spear with Rending and 6" of extra range, right? Is this thing expensive? Is it worth it to equip a Spiritseer with it, considering that they already come with a staff?

Powerguy wrote:
Battle Focus lets you run out of assault range, it helps Wraithcannon Guard the most but it will still help Scythe Guard to avoid multiple charges which could get past their overwatch.

I don't see this being of much help. If you fired wraithcannons you were within 12". A D6" run with no fleet reroll doesn't put you comfortably out of anyone's charge range. The Scythe Guard don't stand a chance of getting away.

I say again, I wouldn't throw one warp charge at this, let alone two. It's an absolutely terrible primaris in place of a fantastic one.

I'm still waiting for some clever dakka-ite to make a new wraithwall list with DE ... Baron/Seer WG still should work. Fill the rest with a Wraith HQ some WG in serpents and a venom squad and call it a day for the core of the list. But the primaris power in Iyanden is certainly not that good. The rest of the supplement is not bad though. Anyway warlocks/seers have a tough time consistently casting regardless and should not be relied on. Couple that with the number of units that can now ignore cover and designing lists around conceal might now be the best approach anyway.
Any clever dakka-ites out there?

 Temujin wrote:

Powerguy wrote:
Battle Focus lets you run out of assault range, it helps Wraithcannon Guard the most but it will still help Scythe Guard to avoid multiple charges which could get past their overwatch.

I don't see this being of much help. If you fired wraithcannons you were within 12". A D6" run with no fleet reroll doesn't put you comfortably out of anyone's charge range. The Scythe Guard don't stand a chance of getting away.

I say again, I wouldn't throw one warp charge at this, let alone two. It's an absolutely terrible primaris in place of a fantastic one.

The new primaris is there to get guys in range quicker, not run away. I'd take this over spending 100+ points on a Wave Serpent.

Wraithguard are tough as old boots and can withstand a charge, letting your other Wraith units or CC stuff get in and murder what ever is there.

Would I prefer Conceal? No... Wraith armies use the distraction of Eldar Trickery to get the fire away from smaller Wraith units. This is what the Knight and to a lesser extent, the Wraithlord is made for. If you want a cover save, take Guardians or Avengers to screen them.

As for the Spear of Teuthlas, is only 15 points, so could be worth it.

Puscifer wrote:

As for the Spear of Teuthlas, is only 15 points, so could be worth it.

Oh yeah, at that price I'll arm one Spiritseer with it just to get some variety to the models' armament. I was worried it would've been ridiculously expensive as all the artefacts in the core codex. Do the other items seem to be reasonably priced?

The only two worth anything are the Helm and Spear at 15 each.

Everything else is well overpriced and kinda rubbish.

I'd take the above two guys for a mock Ayanna and for anyone else, I'd take stuff from the Eldar book.

The regen Gem would have to be WAY expensive to make it not worth it. If you regen a single wound on a 150+ pt wraithlord, it just made you 50 points.

Battle focus is AMAZING on wraithguard.

Max range before: 18"
Max range after : 19-24"


If you can't see the power of that on a unit with S10 AP2 weapons... I can't help you. Also, the 1-5 on spiritseers gives you a ton of blessing rolls.

They all cast at Ld9, and gives you many more opportunities to roll regen or protect.

The rules changes are a big, big buff to an iyanden army.


And don't forget warp spiders, which aren't restricted and behave as a unit of models armed with autocannons against vehicles.

Completely clueless here. The lyanden army, is this a forge world book like dread mob for orks or something I am very lost as I initially thought it was something in the new codex. Haha if anyone could explain this I'd love it!

Puscifer wrote:
The new primaris is there to get guys in range quicker, not run away.

You know Wraithguard can run without Battle Focus right? And Battle Focus doesn't make them run any faster. Once you get in (at best 12") range you can make use of battle focus. If your opponent lets you run into weapons range you can fire that same turn, but let's not pretend this somehow prevents other armies' troops kiting wraithguard. You'd get a shot off on most kiting enemy troops one turn in six. And that's with wraithcannons. Scythe Guard will get a shot off on the enemy because they just jumped out of a Serpent or because they're camping on territory the enemy has to take. Throwing away two charges on Battle Focus and charging forward won't get you in range of any sensible opponent, though it will get you shot to bits with no shrouding, nor any of the other powers that could have helped.

The iyanden army is a supplemental book released by GW (not FW). The digital version is available today on devices.

It contains fluff, art, and rules for an Iyanden specific army.

If it sells well, all indications are that GW would produce more for specific flavors of more generic armies.

Edit:

I don't understand why the power of Battle Focus for wraithguard is difficult.

It straight up adds D6 range to wraithcannons. This improves them from 18" threat to 18+D6" threat, which is a critical increase.

That is awesome!! I wil definatly look into it for sure!! Thank you for the fill in

And you think that is better than Conceal + the other power you roll?

Anyway, blessings are cast at the start of your turn right? So let's say your unwise opponent let your Iyanden wraithguard get within 22" of the nearest target. Do you use your two warp charges on Voice of Twilight? Because if you do you have a 50% chance of completely wasting them. To get that lofty 24" range you would have to have cast your two warp charge power in the knowledge that you had a 84% chance of getting nothing for your troubles. Meanwhile the non-Iyanden wraithguard ran just as far as you did and put up shrouded and another power for good measure.

Edit: Quicken, which is generally considered one of the worst Spiritseer powers, is in most cases superior to Voice of Twilight.

Can some pm the points values for the special items in this book please. I dont think I can find and moral justification on spending £30 on a book that is full of fluff and very little rules.

In my opinion, this Voice of Twilight isn't that great. It's not because of range shenanigans and stuff, it's because it's two Warp Charges. That's all your casting done from your Spiritseer. I'd rather have done something else as well.

Awe so that update is not in the iPhone, I take it you must have an iPad to use it??

The Spirit Stone of Anan'lan might be a good item for Spiritseer casting the Voice of Twilight.

But yeah, I really don't see why it had to cost two charges to begin with, its really not that great.

 Temujin wrote:
And you think that is better than Conceal + the other power you roll?

Anyway, blessings are cast at the start of your turn right? So let's say your unwise opponent let your Iyanden wraithguard get within 22" of the nearest target. Do you use your two warp charges on Voice of Twilight? Because if you do you have a 50% chance of completely wasting them. To get that lofty 24" range you would have to have cast your two warp charge power in the knowledge that you had a 84% chance of getting nothing for your troubles. Meanwhile the non-Iyanden wraithguard ran just as far as you did and put up shrouded and another power for good measure.

Edit: Quicken, which is generally considered one of the worst Spiritseer powers, is in most cases superior to Voice of Twilight.

Have you got any concept of the term distraction?

I'll be having many more viable targets that must be taken out (and won't) which will leave my smaller Wraith to bring the pain.

The extra d6 on range is a great addition and Conceal, while brilliant, is not the be all or end all.

Also... Wraithguard are much tougher vs small arms fire than even Terminators. They do not fall unless you poor a great many units worth of fire into them. By that point, you have not targeted the rest of my army... which have just blown the bejesus out of you.

Target saturation makes this army very powerful.

 Temujin wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
The new primaris is there to get guys in range quicker, not run away.

You know Wraithguard can run without Battle Focus right?

You say that as though WG can run & shoot without Battle Focus, which they can't. That is what Temujin is talking about.

 warpspider89 wrote:

 Temujin wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
The new primaris is there to get guys in range quicker, not run away.

You know Wraithguard can run without Battle Focus right?

You say that as though WG can run & shoot without Battle Focus, which they can't. That is what Temujin is talking about.

What I think Puscifer is talking about however, in this instance at least, is the fact that, with the Wraithcannon being such a short range, battlefocus will probably only help them once, before the enemy is upon them and they are charged/permanently in range. The important issue for WG is getting them in that short range before they're shot to pieces. To help them do this, they can run, something they don't need Battle Focus to do.

Played my first game tonight and got beaten soundly! It was only a casual game, 750pts. I took a list I wouldn't normally take just to try out some new things:

Farseer
9 Dire Avengers with Exarch
5 Rangers
7 Swooping Hawks
5 Dark Reapers
Wraithlord

against

Archon with Shadowfield
4 Hexatrix Bloodbrides in Venom
3x 5 Wyches in Venoms
5 Reavers

The Poison just destroyed me, that is an insane amount of shots to throw out per turn at that level! Was tabled at turn 6.

Got a 2000pt battle tomorrow against Tau, going to take the following list:

2 Farseers on jetbikes
10 Striking Scorpions with Exarch
2 x 9 Jetbikes (3 Cannons)
1 x 6 Jetbikes (2 Cannons)
10 Swooping Hawks
2x 10 Warp Spiders
2 Fire Prisms with Holo Fields
3 War Walkers with SC and SL

 Uriels_Flame wrote:

5 Spiritseers for one HQ.

I was reading this and there seems to be no restriction on what they can attach to (unlike Warlocks) or if they have to stay together. Are they just IC like a normal HQ?

 shamikebab wrote:
Played my first game tonight and got beaten soundly! It was only a casual game, 750pts. I took a list I wouldn't normally take just to try out some new things:

Farseer
9 Dire Avengers with Exarch
5 Rangers
7 Swooping Hawks
5 Dark Reapers
Wraithlord

against

Archon with Shadowfield
4 Hexatrix Bloodbrides in Venom
3x 5 Wyches in Venoms
5 Reavers

The Poison just destroyed me, that is an insane amount of shots to throw out per turn at that level! Was tabled at turn 6.

Two things:

1) It doesn't seem like the components of the list would work well together, which spells certain doom for an Eldar player.

2) How did poison destroy you? Could you explain that more? I understand how it would obliterate the WL, but poison is actually less effective (relatively) against T3.

 The Shadow wrote:

 warpspider89 wrote:

 Temujin wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
The new primaris is there to get guys in range quicker, not run away.

You know Wraithguard can run without Battle Focus right?

You say that as though WG can run & shoot without Battle Focus, which they can't. That is what Temujin is talking about.

What I think Puscifer is talking about however, in this instance at least, is the fact that, with the Wraithcannon being such a short range, battlefocus will probably only help them once, before the enemy is upon them and they are charged/permanently in range. The important issue for WG is getting them in that short range before they're shot to pieces. To help them do this, they can run, something they don't need Battle Focus to do.

A lot of people have been dismissing Wraith as something that can fold under just a waff of firepower.

Untrue.

20 Boltgun shots at BS4 make 0.7 ish casualties per turn. 0.7 vs Wraithguard.

Same Bolters vs Terminators is 1.1 casualties per turn.

Wraithguard are more resilient vs small weapons fire than Terminators. They will not be falling over as easy as most people think.

The thing is, there will be a time when you will need Battle Focus and sometimes more than once. It's a boon and works really well.

If you have issues with its warp cost, take the Spirit Stone of Annathlan. 15 points, makes the cost go down by one.

Also, putting your distraction units in front of your Wraiths works wonders for cover and makes your opponents commit mistakes in target priority. Similar tactic used in 4th ed Nidzilla. Shoot the big stuff and the little guys tear you a new one. Shoot the little guys and the big guys tear you a new one.

Eldar Trickery at its best.

Seriously.

I usually get one round of shooting with a wraithguard unit (pre 6th codex) a game. Its quite a vicious round.

With Battle Focus, I might get 2. Thats a 200% increase in output.

Never mind that being able to take 5 spiritseers is literally exactly as many points as a warlock council, the same number of rolls on the battle runes table, and you can attach them to anything you want. And they're ld9.

The iyanden supplement is a huge, huge boost to a wraith-heavy army.

 warpspider89 wrote:

 shamikebab wrote:
Played my first game tonight and got beaten soundly! It was only a casual game, 750pts. I took a list I wouldn't normally take just to try out some new things:

Farseer
9 Dire Avengers with Exarch
5 Rangers
7 Swooping Hawks
5 Dark Reapers
Wraithlord

against

Archon with Shadowfield
4 Hexatrix Bloodbrides in Venom
3x 5 Wyches in Venoms
5 Reavers

The Poison just destroyed me, that is an insane amount of shots to throw out per turn at that level! Was tabled at turn 6.

Two things:

1) It doesn't seem like the components of the list would work well together, which spells certain doom for an Eldar player.

2) How did poison destroy you? Could you explain that more? I understand how it would obliterate the WL, but poison is actually less effective (relatively) against T3.

1. As I said, it was just a fun list for a quick game. I wanted to trial run a few units for the game tomorrow, I don't think it was that unbalanced really, not that many armies at that level can put out that much firepower to take out my anti armour that easily.

2. Well the Wraithlord is a big point sink at that level, having it taken out in one turn by 65pt vehicle was a fairly big blow. It was more the sheer rate of fire against an infantry army, just didn't stand a chance really. It looked for a moment like I might manage to get something but then his Shadowfield Archon made 12 2+ saves in one turn :(

 Crimson wrote:
The Spirit Stone of Anan'lan might be a good item for Spiritseer casting the Voice of Twilight.

But yeah, I really don't see why it had to cost two charges to begin with, its really not that great.

Are we assuming here that by taking the Iyanden codex you do not lose access to the standard Remnants of Glory war gear?

 ph34r wrote:
Are we assuming here that by taking the Iyanden codex you do not lose access to the standard Remnants of Glory war gear?

We are, because you don't. Single character can't have stuff from both books, but the army can.

 mcyeatman wrote:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:

5 Spiritseers for one HQ.

I was reading this and there seems to be no restriction on what they can attach to (unlike Warlocks) or if they have to stay together. Are they just IC like a normal HQ?

It is my understanding they can be run just like Warlocks - council wise and split to individual groups.

The ONLY thing lacking is they can't jump on bikes and go.

And since you're not really losing ANYTHING from the main codex - just different functionality PLUS more items - it is sounding more like a 80% win-dex. Only meta will tell...

Which I guess may be inflamatory/naive on my part - but let us NOT FORGET - this company sells miniatures, not fair rules.

Just something I quickly brewed up...

750 list.

Spiritseer - 85.
Spiritstone of Anathlan.

5 Wraithguard - 160
Wraithcannon

5 Wraithguard - 160
Wraithcannon

Wraithlord - 165
2 Flamers, Ghostglaive, Scatter Laser and Starcannon.

Wraithlord - 165
2 Flamers, Ghostglaive, Scatter Laser and Starcannon.

The idea is to run and gun with the entire army having Battle Focus and Furious Charge, while the Wraithlords act as distractions and get right in the face of the enemy, making my opponent choose between the toughness 8 MC that can really hurt a squad or the Wraithguard that can decimate vehicles and MC alike.

As with all my lists, it's TAC. Thinking of dropping the Starcannons and going for EML on the Wraithlords.

Testing it today vs Orks.

You know what really annoys me? How come Tau can re-roll Warlord Traits that their warlord can't use...but we can't.

If a Farseer on jetbike rolls the run trait then we're just stuck with it. Seems stupid.

 shamikebab wrote:
You know what really annoys me? How come Tau can re-roll Warlord Traits that their warlord can't use...but we can't.

If a Farseer on jetbike rolls the run trait then we're just stuck with it. Seems stupid.

I think we will get an FAQ soon regarding anything Run related very soon.

Whats everyone's opinion on the Farseer on a jetbike with the mantle of the laughing god?

You get a constant 2+ rerollable cover save, and you just aim to get guide, prescience, and hopefully doom. It has its weaknesses especially against tau and flying MCs, but its not a bad buff/distraction unit.

Honestly I'd rather put the Farseer in a unit and have him be throwing out repeated guide + presciences than have him on a MantleBike. Not enough attacks to do the damage, and no way to reliably get doom (2 rolls on the table max if you still want prescience). I've begun taking a 5x Harlie squad with just a shadowseer so that the Farseer can sit in the back without even being able to be targeted.

Edited for synonyms.

 shamikebab wrote:
You know what really annoys me? How come Tau can re-roll Warlord Traits that their warlord can't use...but we can't.

If a Farseer on jetbike rolls the run trait then we're just stuck with it. Seems stupid.

I dunno about you, but I've been finding the Eldar Warlord traits quite lacklustre anyway. I've just been sticking with Command for the most part.

Iranna.

 Iranna wrote:

 shamikebab wrote:
You know what really annoys me? How come Tau can re-roll Warlord Traits that their warlord can't use...but we can't.

If a Farseer on jetbike rolls the run trait then we're just stuck with it. Seems stupid.

I dunno about you, but I've been finding the Eldar Warlord traits quite lacklustre anyway. I've just been sticking with Command for the most part.

Iranna.

Same here.

The first one is ok in a pinch, but the others are quite bad.

Will tell you how the Iyanden ones work after my game.

Still trying to sort this through ... so using the Iyanden codex can I use this list ...

== The Ceifulgaithann Bikers ==
========== 1.3% ===========

Karandras 230 [warlord]
Spiritseer: Spear of Teuthlas 85

4x 6 Windrider Jetbikes: 2 Shuriken Cannons 488
7 Wraithguard: D-scythes 284

Crimson Hunter Exarch: 180 [reserve]

2x Nightspinner: 230

== 1497 ==

I infiltrate the wraiths and spiritseer with the WG? And Karandras can be my warlord? I'm not sure if you can attach the soiritseer prior to deployment?

How are you infiltrating them?

Karandas has infiltrate.

 felixcat wrote:
Karandas has infiltrate.

...

I was afraid you'd say that.

Can we have this stickied with giant flaming letters on the top of the forum? You can't do that!
Honestly, this is suggested about four times every day.

IC can confer infiltrate to the unit only after the unit is already deployed, or in the reserves, neither of which allows you to infiltrate the unit. You can outflank them though.

I wou;d be happy with outflank. So he can confer stealth to the unit for outflank ... can the spiritseer outflank with them?

 felixcat wrote:

I wou;d be happy with outflank. So he can confer stealth to the unit for outflank ... can the spiritseer outflank with them?

Yes, he can confer stealth and Spiritseer can join them.

 Crimson wrote:

IC can confer infiltrate to the unit only after the unit is already deployed

That's impossible. You can't infiltrate after deployment.

BlaxicanX wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

IC can confer infiltrate to the unit only after the unit is already deployed

That's impossible. You can't infiltrate after deployment.

Exactly. It's impossible, you can't do it...

Take it to YMDC!

BlaxicanX wrote:

That's impossible. You can't infiltrate after deployment.

Which was my point. The unit gains infiltrate rule, but it is too late to use it.

BlaxicanX wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

IC can confer infiltrate to the unit only after the unit is already deployed

That's impossible. You can't infiltrate after deployment.

All Infiltrate on an IC does is confer the ability to Outflank from reserve, or to be able to Infiltrate with a squad of Infiltrators.

 MandalorynOranj wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

IC can confer infiltrate to the unit only after the unit is already deployed

That's impossible. You can't infiltrate after deployment.

All Infiltrate on an IC does is confer the ability to Outflank from reserve, or to be able to Infiltrate with a squad of Infiltrators.

This.

Tho the rule says "a unit with one or more models containing..." The IC is not a part of the unit until he is deployed within coherency. If the IC has infiltrate, he is deployed last and the unit without infiltrate cannot delay their own deployment to be placed at the infiltration stage.

 xlEternitylx wrote:
Honestly I'd rather put the Farseer in a unit and have him be throwing out repeated guide + presciences than have him on a MantleBike. Not enough attacks to do the damage, and no way to reliably get doom (2 rolls on the table max if you still want prescience). I've begun taking a 5x Harlie squad with just a shadowseer so that the Farseer can sit in the back without even being able to be targeted.

Edited for synonyms.

Yeah but a farseer with MotLG has the rerollable 2+ cover save, the amount of effort trying to shift that is pretty huge, short of sending a flying MC just to deal with it, and it makes for a more mobile army.

Tested a Wraith Army in 750 points vs Orks.

Learnt a lot from the game, even though it was a loss.

Lost 5-3 on vp in Big Guns Never Tire. Went down to the Warboss and a Wraithlord slugging it out. If it went another turn, I would have won as his Warboss only had one wound left and his biker nobz were all dead.

Things to note...

Wraithguard just don't die even to mass Firepower. One unit took a 28 strong Shoota Boyz unit with two Big Shootas worth of shooting and it didn't lose a single model. Next turn, roughly same amount of shooting, only lost one.

Wraithlord don't like being tarpitted. One spent all game chipping away at the big Shoota unit. They just wouldn't fail a morale check. Two lots of Snake Eyes in two turns kept them around. Wraithlord also make great fire platforms. I should have taken dual EML. Multi Purpose and work really well. You should take Wraithlord with Anti Infantry ranged weapons as WG need the AI support and they can butcher vehicles in cc.

As for WG configs... Dscythes. My WG made it up into point blank range with Battle Focus and Wraithcannons. They can manage to get up there with Dscythes. I think Dscythe WG in Scatter Serpents supported by Anti Tank WL will work really well together.

As for Conceal, I didn't miss it. I never needed to take a cover save, but if I do, I'll get them from walking behind my WL's.

I did a 500pt game against guard and just waltz'd across the table.

The true test will be at 1500pts or higher as riptides seem to be stupid popular, and 2 marker light hits counter conceal.

Puscifer wrote:

As for WG configs... Dscythes. My WG made it up into point blank range with Battle Focus and Wraithcannons. They can manage to get up there with Dscythes. I think Dscythe WG in Scatter Serpents supported by Anti Tank WL will work really well together.

No Battlefocus for Wraithunits. I have thought about running a D-Scythe unit in a serpent. I think I'll play a few more games before I purchase them though.

He mentions he didn't miss conceal which means he is using the Iyanden book already

 Ravenous D wrote:

 xlEternitylx wrote:
Honestly I'd rather put the Farseer in a unit and have him be throwing out repeated guide + presciences than have him on a MantleBike. Not enough attacks to do the damage, and no way to reliably get doom (2 rolls on the table max if you still want prescience). I've begun taking a 5x Harlie squad with just a shadowseer so that the Farseer can sit in the back without even being able to be targeted.

Edited for synonyms.

Yeah but a farseer with MotLG has the rerollable 2+ cover save, the amount of effort trying to shift that is pretty huge, short of sending a flying MC just to deal with it, and it makes for a more mobile army.

Noise marines ignore cover, and are Str 8 if I recall. And they are rather popular, at least where I am. That means one failed save and my super expensive Farseer suddenly gets instagibbled. Or a squad of HYMP Broads with a multispec. Too many things that just outright ignore cover, and no EW means I cringe at every 2xT wound on my lonesome seer. It's not situational enough to warrant not worrying about something like that.

---
To add to the growing list of anecdotal help, I just finished a 500 point game against Space Marines. He had Calgar, and 2x 5 man squads in Rhinos. I had Avatar, 2x 3 man WRJ, a Fire Prism, and a warlock. Warlock failed to cast his power once the entire game (9s, 10s, and 11s 5 times in a row), and Avatar died in a glorious 1v1 with Calgar. That 5++ is pretty bad to work with if he isn't fortuned. Also, Disarming Strike was only useful for reducing C's number of attacks by 1 since he has two PFs; I learned that DS is way better against the hidden PF sarge. Fire Prism killed a rhino, and then the squad inside next turn, but by turn 3 I only had a lone jetbike and the FP left. Turn 4 saw the WRJ die, and Calgar corner and assault the FP for a tabling.

Also remember the farseer would have 3+ armour from the bike and his 4++. I think its worth considering considering 1/36 wounds actually do damage. Not to mention his speed can keep him away from most things while still supporting forward elements.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Also remember the farseer would have 3+ armour from the bike and his 4++. I think its worth considering considering 1/36 wounds actually do damage. Not to mention his speed can keep him away from most things while still supporting forward elements.

I didn't mention the 3+ because AP3 is sort of part and parcel with a lot of weapons that ID T4 but yeah its up to how you play it.

Markerlights can also remove cover. The character on a jetbike still has a 4+ invo if a farseer and a 3+ armor, but will go down quick to tau s5/s6/s7/s8 shooting.

Vector strikes also squash mantle of the laughing god. Ap3 s7 no cover. Nids, deamons, and hell turkeys can all wound the character with ease.

I'm grinding through some options for troop choices at the moment. I've loved the jetbike squads since I started, and so am inclined to keep using them. Thus, I began wondering: is it better to have as many small units as possible or max out a few squads. For example:
6x 3-Man Windriders is 306 points
vs.
3x 9-Man Windriders, 3x SC is 549 points

The latter option puts out, if my math is right, 10.1 wounds with 2.7 of them at AP2. A lot more durable too. But it's a lot of points...

Thoughts on troop choice?

 xlEternitylx wrote:
I'm grinding through some options for troop choices at the moment. I've loved the jetbike squads since I started, and so am inclined to keep using them. Thus, I began wondering: is it better to have as many small units as possible or max out a few squads. For example:
6x 3-Man Windriders is 306 points
vs.
3x 9-Man Windriders, 3x SC is 549 points

The latter option puts out, if my math is right, 10.1 wounds with 2.7 of them at AP2. A lot more durable too. But it's a lot of points...

Thoughts on troop choice?

Depends, if you just want/need the Bikes to score then 6 x 3 is fine, its cheap, surprisingly durable and incredibly mobile. Just reserve them and you should have some scoring units left at the end of the game. Going first in this case is obviously harder, but still doable. If you actually want the Jetbikes to achieve something then 6 man units are the smallest I would go. A 6 man unit with 2 Cannons is surprisingly cheap and effective (JSJ at 24" until you have to commit to 12"), and 9 man units make good bunkers for a Farseer (usually you run Warlocks in the big squads as well to get more out of their buffs).

Also 549pts is not really that many points in troops, most lists I see tend to average around the 600 mark for 1750-1850pts.

 Ravenous D wrote:
He mentions he didn't miss conceal which means he is using the Iyanden book already

I should have mentioned that. Yes... I am using Codex Iyanden.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ravenous D wrote:
I did a 500pt game against guard and just waltz'd across the table.

The true test will be at 1500pts or higher as riptides seem to be stupid popular, and 2 marker light hits counter conceal.

Yeah, definitely. You have to footslog with this army in small games. No other option or you'll have even a smaller amount of units than you should. What have you been running in 500 points?

I've not seen a Riptide in my Meta, but if any army can take it out in one turn of shooting, it's Eldar.

My first victory with the Eldar against a so-so Tau list. Thoughts on the units I took:

Farseer - buffed the surrounding units all game (I took two, one had Guide, Prescience and Doom. The other had Prescience, Precognition and Forewarning)

Scorpions - hard to judge against an army so useless in combat really.

Jetbikes - Amazing. The new Bladestorm rule meant they ripped apart two Crisis suit squads (inc Commander) and barely took any casualties all game. Can't see myself picking a list without at least two squads.

Warp Spiders - Very impressive, so manoeuvrable. S7 against I3 or below is just devastating.

Swooping Hawks - Didn't do much for me, both their blasts scattered and did nothing.

Fire Prisms - Took two, I pretty much had the same experience as I did in 5th. They're devastating against infantry but just not great against vehicles. One of them spent 4 turns shooting at a Hammerhead but 4+ jink on both sides meant that the only damage was 1 hull point from him.

War Walkers - Amazing, outflanked and killed a fire warrior squad, a Hammerhead and partly killed the second Hammerhead. The 5+ save is incredibly useful and SL/SC is a great combo. Even with snap shots one turn they still put out an impressive amount of damage.

Puscifer wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
He mentions he didn't miss conceal which means he is using the Iyanden book already

I should have mentioned that. Yes... I am using Codex Iyanden.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ravenous D wrote:
I did a 500pt game against guard and just waltz'd across the table.

The true test will be at 1500pts or higher as riptides seem to be stupid popular, and 2 marker light hits counter conceal.

Yeah, definitely. You have to footslog with this army in small games. No other option or you'll have even a smaller amount of units than you should. What have you been running in 500 points?

I've not seen a Riptide in my Meta, but if any army can take it out in one turn of shooting, it's Eldar.

Just started an escalation league at the store, my 500pt army is 2 units of 5 d-scythes and a spirit seer, thus far Im seeing the problems of essentially not being effective for 3 turns before you bring the pain.

I run an all wraith army at 750-1000, and if i cant get the Iyanden supplement i will be quite annoyed... my $0.02 is that wraith are chunky as all hell, as in, they will never die, last game i had a farseer with fortune, and a couple of other spells, and a spiritseer who rolled protect. that rerollable 2+ was amazing and all i can say is, they beat face like nothing else, 2 units of wraithguard, one 10 man wraithcannon and one 5man d-scythe units to sit on the home objective, two wraithlords, on with glaive and SC, on with SL and brightlance, both have flamers, they wreack face againt charging units and defending units and were fociussed on much more so than my guard, which ended up taking the two objectives i had in the end. i tabled my opponent on turn 5 but it was awesome fun.

We have any unscrupulous folks post anything from the supplement in unseedy web areas?

wraith seems more viable at 750-1000 due to the smaller board size, but how about on a larger board and pointage? I really want a competitive wraith army but still a lil hardpressed to do so. Don't need to be uber competitive, but one that can put up a good fight.

was vaguely thinking:

2 spirit seers

5 WG
5 WG
5 WG -DScythe in Wave Serpent
5 WG -DScythe in Wave Serpent
3 GJB
3 GJB

1 Wraithknight
1 Wraithknight

1720+

I just tried this:

Spiritseer 85.
Soulstone of Anathalan.
Spiritseer 85.
Spear of Tuethlas.

5 Wraithguard 210.
DScythes.
5 Wraithguard 210.
DScythes.

Wraith Warlord 165.
Scatter Laser and Starcannon or 2 Scatter Lasers.
Ghostglaive.

You spend some turns getting there, but when you do, it hurts.

vs Necrons the synergy between Illic and Dark Reapers or War Walkers is pretty sweet.

Illic gives to DR/WW- preferred enemy: Necrons, shrouded. When paired with reapers they give him slow and purposeful.

So Illic outflanks with Dark reapers, arrives from reserves choosing a place to move onto the board into cover, can fire on the round they arrive (regular reapers only missing on rolls of 2, exarchs getting a 2+ rerollable) and should have a 3+ cover save to return fire.

A good friend of mine plays Necrons and we have a game in a week. Trying this out with a 7 strong squad of reapers. Expensive to be sure but I believe it will be worth it.

PsycicSpaceElf wrote:
vs Necrons the synergy between Illic and Dark Reapers or War Walkers is pretty sweet.

Illic gives to DR/WW- preferred enemy: Necrons, shrouded. When paired with reapers they give him slow and purposeful.

So Illic outflanks with Dark reapers, arrives from reserves choosing a place to move onto the board into cover, can fire on the round they arrive (regular reapers only missing on rolls of 2, exarchs getting a 2+ rerollable) and should have a 3+ cover save to return fire.

A good friend of mine plays Necrons and we have a game in a week. Trying this out with a 7 strong squad of reapers. Expensive to be sure but I believe it will be worth it.

Yeah, this is the thing that I think a bunch of people are missing about Illic: he gives the codex its first "Give any unit Outflank" HQ other than Karandras (who at 200-some points you don't want having to wait in reserve). I know how much fun it is to outflank some Melta Bikes in my Slaanesh list... I would LOVE to do that with some Reapers in a Wave Serpent flanked by War Walkers. That is a LOT of firepower that just showed up from an unexpected direction.

Im still thinking reapers with illric would be an optimal choice. Lot to like there.

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Im still thinking reapers with illric would be an optimal choice. Lot to like there.

I don't feel Illic in any list, is really "Optimal" It may work, but I think he is a far cry from optimal.

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Im still thinking reapers with illric would be an optimal choice. Lot to like there.

I've tried it in two games now. It worked well. Always lot's of tempting targets upon arrival. Side and rear armours for the Reapers while the snipers went a'snipin. Illic being able to move and shoot while picking different targets was nice. This came into play as my opponent reacted to my tactics and brought units to try and deal with them. Being able to move around to maintain optimal cover and play keep away while still being able to shoot was cool. In my last game I outflanked 6 reapers with Illic and then brought in 6 pathfinders and 6 rangers. Very expensive but I killed all but one of my friends sky firing units with this combo while my autarch delayed the arrival of my crimson hunter.

The rangers gave cover to the pathfinders and the reapers with illic were behind them. The rangers were just there for bubble wrap but managed to pin an assault squad. huzzah!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sasori wrote:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Im still thinking reapers with illric would be an optimal choice. Lot to like there.

I don't feel Illic in any list, is really "Optimal" It may work, but I think he is a far cry from optimal.

Pretty sure he was saying that deploying him with reapers and outflanking is an optimal use for that character, not for a list in general. I agree with you that there are HQs that do more for your army but outflanking shrouded reapers is sweet and would be a pain for any army to deal with given the range of their weapons. You show up, picking a place far away from any immediate enemy response, hit a bunch of side/rear armour while Illic tries to take out important models.

haha, well it's fun at any rate.

PsycicSpaceElf wrote:
vs Necrons the synergy between Illic and Dark Reapers or War Walkers is pretty sweet.

Illic gives to DR/WW- preferred enemy: Necrons, shrouded. When paired with reapers they give him slow and purposeful.

Characters can't join vehicle squadrons.

Hah, I just realized I've been playing the serpent shield wrong. I thought it was once, period. Not once per turn, haha. I already thought serpents were good, now they are even better in my eyes.

 Sasori wrote:
Hah, I just realized I've been playing the serpent shield wrong. I thought it was once, period. Not once per turn, haha. I already thought serpents were good, now they are even better in my eyes.

They are the best thing in the new codex. They pretty much wreck any target on the board. Well, most.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

PsycicSpaceElf wrote:
vs Necrons the synergy between Illic and Dark Reapers or War Walkers is pretty sweet.

Illic gives to DR/WW- preferred enemy: Necrons, shrouded. When paired with reapers they give him slow and purposeful.

Characters can't join vehicle squadrons.

Thanks.

 Sasori wrote:
Hah, I just realized I've been playing the serpent shield wrong. I thought it was once, period. Not once per turn, haha. I already thought serpents were good, now they are even better in my eyes.

Oh the serpent shield is brutal, I look forward to using it myself. I know some guys that win tournaments fairly often and said that the 4+ cover save on tau vehicles made them very difficult to get rid of, so I can safely assume that applies for Eldar as well. No worries about the defensive side of things, unless you go second.

Side notes:

I think its worth allying with the baron for the 70% chance to go first.

Eldrads Warlord ability is great for suicidal players, launch yourself across the board for the 3+ cover save (Jink, holo, flatout), use Eldrads power and its now 2+ cover save(Jink, holo, flatout, stealth),.

 evildrspock wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
Hah, I just realized I've been playing the serpent shield wrong. I thought it was once, period. Not once per turn, haha. I already thought serpents were good, now they are even better in my eyes.

They are the best thing in the new codex. They pretty much wreck any target on the board. Well, most.

Wreck? Not hardly.

Also, they die pretty easily.

PsycicSpaceElf wrote:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Im still thinking reapers with illric would be an optimal choice. Lot to like there.

I've tried it in two games now. It worked well. Always lot's of tempting targets upon arrival. Side and rear armours for the Reapers while the snipers went a'snipin. Illic being able to move and shoot while picking different targets was nice. This came into play as my opponent reacted to my tactics and brought units to try and deal with them. Being able to move around to maintain optimal cover and play keep away while still being able to shoot was cool. In my last game I outflanked 6 reapers with Illic and then brought in 6 pathfinders and 6 rangers. Very expensive but I killed all but one of my friends sky firing units with this combo while my autarch delayed the arrival of my crimson hunter.

The rangers gave cover to the pathfinders and the reapers with illic were behind them. The rangers were just there for bubble wrap but managed to pin an assault squad. huzzah!


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 Sasori wrote:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Im still thinking reapers with illric would be an optimal choice. Lot to like there.

I don't feel Illic in any list, is really "Optimal" It may work, but I think he is a far cry from optimal.

Pretty sure he was saying that deploying him with reapers and outflanking is an optimal use for that character, not for a list in general. I agree with you that there are HQs that do more for your army but outflanking shrouded reapers is sweet and would be a pain for any army to deal with given the range of their weapons. You show up, picking a place far away from any immediate enemy response, hit a bunch of side/rear armour while Illic tries to take out important models.

haha, well it's fun at any rate.

I ran Illic with reapers behind an Aegis Defense Line with a Icarus las cannon. I felt bad with how much damage I put out. We rolled for night fighting and he went first. During my turn Illic shot with the icarrus at the command barge, I also ran Illic as my HQ to take his warlod trait to split fire. He was able to ignore NF due to the DR and ithe jink save given. Because he has such a high BS (and prefered enemy necrons) he can reroll with a 2+/3+. I penetrated and nuked it. My DR shot at the necron players jet bike models (forget what they are called.) Because of Illic prefered enemy my unit got to reroll to hit and wounds of 1. I decimated his 5 man unit.

I will say he is amazing vs necrons but I really don't think I would play him verse anything else.

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

Side notes:

I think its worth allying with the baron for the 70% chance to go first.

I find that I actually want to go second most of the time for the ability to deal with enemy flyers and take late game objectives.

 shamikebab wrote:
Do you have the codex? DakkaDakka is not a replacement for owning the rules.

True, but I doubt I broke any rules at all by asking about general restrictions on the Codex: Eldar. It's like calling me out for asking if in current meta, Eldar can compete against, eg. Necrons and why. So don't worry, we're all legit boys here


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Thanks, Sasori, that answered all my queries


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And by the way, Shamikebab, it seems you have your PHD in Horribleness

 Araenion wrote:

 shamikebab wrote:
Do you have the codex? DakkaDakka is not a replacement for owning the rules.

True, but I doubt I broke any rules at all by asking about general restrictions on the Codex: Eldar. It's like calling me out for asking if in current meta, Eldar can compete against, eg. Necrons and why. So don't worry, we're all legit boys here


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Thanks, Sasori, that answered all my queries


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And by the way, Shamikebab, it seems you have your PHD in Horribleness

Sorry, but wrong. You can get a limited edition Iyanden Codex in print for $50 here. I personally thought about it, but unless I spill for a Wraithlord and Wraithknight (which I am seriously considering right now), I probably won't get it. We'll see.

Or just take the 30 seconds on google to get the Iyanden condensed rules for free

There are two things that I'm trying to figure out regarding my current list (a list that is fast, mobile, and shooty), and I think they kind of apply in a general sense to the entire codex, so:

1. Dire Avenger Exarchs: I'm incredibly reticent to pay the points to make them potentially a decent CC model when the DA's being in combat is something I would rather avoid. They're a unit that I plan to drop off at objectives, or to drop in front of enemy units which will then suffer shooting attacks from several other units (after which they'll generally run backwards out of charge range). I'm easily OK with paying the 10 points for the +1 Ld... it's the 15pts for the 4++, 15-20pts for an upgraded weapon, and possibly another 10-20 for the other two powers that makes the Exarch a rather large point sink. Those are points that I can use towards a Spiritseer to go with the unit, which might do more to upgrade their main capabilities, or for more Rangers, or anywhere else in the list.

2. Infiltrating Striking Scorpions in an otherwise fast, mobile list. I love the unit and the changes in the new codex are fantastic. However (and this refers only to this particular build), I'm not sure that a single close combat unit, deploying away from the rest of the army, is a good use for the points. I totally get the idea of them being a threat and forcing the enemy to react to their presence, and there is value in putting an enemy's front lines at risk and drawing fire away from my Serpents and Jetbikes. That said, this particular list is so focused on movement and firepower that a close combat squad walking in just seems like it's pulling focus away from the army. Thoughts?

The list options for reference:
LIST A:
-Farseer with Bike
-DA's in Serpent
-2 Ranger squads
-6 Jetbikes + Warlock
-Fire Dragons in Serpent
-Striking Scorpions
-Warp Spiders
-Vypers (Scatter/Cannon)

LIST B:
-Farseer with Bike
-Spiritseer
-DA's in Serpent
-2 Ranger Squads
-6 Jetbikes + Warlock
-Warp Spiders
-Vypers (Scatter/Cannon)
-Dark Reapers in Serpent
-Wraithlord with 2 BL

 evildrspock wrote:

 Araenion wrote:

 shamikebab wrote:
Do you have the codex? DakkaDakka is not a replacement for owning the rules.

True, but I doubt I broke any rules at all by asking about general restrictions on the Codex: Eldar. It's like calling me out for asking if in current meta, Eldar can compete against, eg. Necrons and why. So don't worry, we're all legit boys here


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thanks, Sasori, that answered all my queries


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And by the way, Shamikebab, it seems you have your PHD in Horribleness

Sorry, but wrong. You can get a limited edition Iyanden Codex in print for $50 here. I personally thought about it, but unless I spill for a Wraithlord and Wraithknight (which I am seriously considering right now), I probably won't get it. We'll see.

Perhaps you missed the part on that link where it says "No longer available".

 Magc8Ball wrote:


1. Dire Avenger Exarchs: I'm incredibly reticent to pay the points to make them potentially a decent CC model when the DA's being in combat is something I would rather avoid. They're a unit that I plan to drop off at objectives, or to drop in front of enemy units which will then suffer shooting attacks from several other units (after which they'll generally run backwards out of charge range). I'm easily OK with paying the 10 points for the +1 Ld... it's the 15pts for the 4++, 15-20pts for an upgraded weapon, and possibly another 10-20 for the other two powers that makes the Exarch a rather large point sink. Those are points that I can use towards a Spiritseer to go with the unit, which might do more to upgrade their main capabilities, or for more Rangers, or anywhere else in the list.

2. Infiltrating Striking Scorpions in an otherwise fast, mobile list. I love the unit and the changes in the new codex are fantastic. However (and this refers only to this particular build), I'm not sure that a single close combat unit, deploying away from the rest of the army, is a good use for the points. I totally get the idea of them being a threat and forcing the enemy to react to their presence, and there is value in putting an enemy's front lines at risk and drawing fire away from my Serpents and Jetbikes. That said, this particular list is so focused on movement and firepower that a close combat squad walking in just seems like it's pulling focus away from the army. Thoughts?

IMO
1. I you don't plan of getting them in CC, don't upgrade. You'll pay points for a situation you try to avoid and thus will come up not nearly enough to make it worthwhile.
2. I feel that without mobility, they likely become a throwaway unit. If you feel you need a CC element to complement your list, I'd go for a different unit like a Wraithknight of a unit of Shining Spears. The knight is useful in both the shooting and assault phase, and can also put pressure on early on with it's 12" move. The Spears are also another good home for the Farseer on bike.

 Nivoglibina wrote:
If you feel you need a CC element to complement your list, I'd go for a different unit like a Wraithknight of a unit of Shining Spears. The knight is useful in both the shooting and assault phase, and can also put pressure on early on with it's 12" move. The Spears are also another good home for the Farseer on bike.

Yeah, both of those are on my long term "to build" list once I can afford to do some additions to my current stock of models. I suspect the Spears will end up coming first, just because my first priority is going to be to do a second unit of Jetbikes and I'll have the extra parts to make some Spears. For the moment, though, I think I can go without any serious CC elements in exchange for the raw speed of everything else.

Is the bearer of the Celestial Lance subject to the blast it creates via Soulshatter? If he/she is, why would you take this?