Still is a 4++ and basically I hate that the entire meta revolves around the check "If(opposing player has heldrakes...)"

I hate that model, I hate that FAQ, I absolutely despise that it's the one thing that ruins so many of the fun builds I want to take.

But I digress. Now I want to build an army with 20 guardians with two weapon platforms on a comms relay, 5 jet biker squads, laughing autarch, farseer with seer council, some wraithfighters (whichever one is the better AA vehicle) and ally in DE to get the Baron with his bros, and a full beast squad.

Add some swooping hawks to help with tanks? Or something from DE?

Basically, a maniacally fast army with controlled reserves (to shoot down heldrakes with wraithfighters). I don't care if it's amazor, I just want to be silly.

Spiritseer + 10 Harlies w/kisses + Shadowseer sounds pretty sick to me.

Striking scorpions have a PF that strikes at intiative, that's a challenge monster if ever I saw one, plus its not a specialit weapon so he gets +1 attack with his chainsword, take crushing blow as well and you have 3/4 attacks at WS5 Str7 Ap2 I6 not too shabby.

Laser lock on the scatter laser is interesting, makes shooting from Falcons + Wave Serpents more effective.

Also Warlock on jetbike + w/3 Windriders 101pts take the primaris power and those bikes have 2+/3+ cover all the time.

What does everyone think of Fire Dragon spam to melt deathstars and make small model count armies cry?

 CaptainJay wrote:


Striking scorpions have a PF that strikes at intiative, that's a challenge monster if either I saw one, plus its not a specialit weapon so he gets +1 attack with his chainsword, take crushing blow as well and you have 3/4 attacks at WS5 Str7 Ap2 I6 not too shabby..

Holy cow you're right! I completely missed that. The scorpion's claw doesn't have Unwieldy! This makes it pretty much an automatic upgrade for Scorpion Exarchs.

 alienvalentine wrote:

 CaptainJay wrote:


Striking scorpions have a PF that strikes at intiative, that's a challenge monster if either I saw one, plus its not a specialit weapon so he gets +1 attack with his chainsword, take crushing blow as well and you have 3/4 attacks at WS5 Str7 Ap2 I6 not too shabby..

Holy cow you're right! I completely missed that. The scorpion's claw doesn't have Unwieldy! This makes it pretty much an automatic upgrade for Scorpion Exarchs.

And now Karandras is even beefier.

Oh Image all those attacks karandras has against some base terminators... him alone eating right through them. (does anyone know if they get inv saves?)

 Kain wrote:

 alienvalentine wrote:

 CaptainJay wrote:


Striking scorpions have a PF that strikes at intiative, that's a challenge monster if either I saw one, plus its not a specialit weapon so he gets +1 attack with his chainsword, take crushing blow as well and you have 3/4 attacks at WS5 Str7 Ap2 I6 not too shabby..

Holy cow you're right! I completely missed that. The scorpion's claw doesn't have Unwieldy! This makes it pretty much an automatic upgrade for Scorpion Exarchs.

And now Karandras is even beefier.

I7 Powerfists That's just mean!

 lepermessiah10 wrote:

: Autarch; Fusion Gun, Eldar Jet Bike, Mantle of the Laughing God, Shard of Anaris (175pts)

So you got this bro, turbo boosting around, popping off tanks, with a 2+ cover save (re-rollable!), hit & run, battle focus, fearless, T4, S5 (in CC), Rending; in challenges he has fleshbane AND instant death. He'll get 4 attacks base and 5 on the charge, plus a hammer of wrath. Still can manipulate your reserves.

Uhm, I'm making Eldar allies just to bring him. Because YES.

Except as cool as it would be, remember, Mantle of the laughing god strips the IC status of said model. So no challenges making the shard useless.

He loses IC but his unit type is still In (infantry) Ch(character) you don't need the IC USR to challenge.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 alienvalentine wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 alienvalentine wrote:

 CaptainJay wrote:


Striking scorpions have a PF that strikes at intiative, that's a challenge monster if either I saw one, plus its not a specialit weapon so he gets +1 attack with his chainsword, take crushing blow as well and you have 3/4 attacks at WS5 Str7 Ap2 I6 not too shabby..

Holy cow you're right! I completely missed that. The scorpion's claw doesn't have Unwieldy! This makes it pretty much an automatic upgrade for Scorpion Exarchs.

And now Karandras is even beefier.

I7 Powerfists That's just mean!

All for just 230pts!

Slayer222 wrote:
Oh Image all those attacks karandras has against some base terminators... him alone eating right through them. (does anyone know if they get inv saves?)

Regular teminators have a 5++ so yes. Karandras gets 6 attacks on the charge, so if my rough mathhammer is right he'll kill a slight fraction over 2 terminators by himself every turn.

 Kain wrote:
Fire dragons in a can is still perhaps the definition of "click, delete" for anything that isn't a blob. That many meltas can turn any low model count unit into ashes in seconds. Fire dragons are especially great for making Deathstar based lists cry.

This is a good point here - but with the addition of the Spirit Seerer and turning the basic WG into troops - is the Elite version (Dragons) needed?

I'm going to keep this about the WG/Dragon as the transport is negligible unless I'm missing something overall (besides you get more Dragons into it)

22pt dragon vs. 32pt WG base costs. Fusion vs. Cannon, not to mention the better overall stats of the WG being T6 and having the same 3+ save.

Upgrading a dragon to the Exarch does open up different possibilities and pending on the abilities you use can get you right up to the same point cost per unit.

Thoughts here?

What is his toughness?

The terminators do get to hit back with their PF remember, he might very well be an Instant Death victim in short order.

Then there are the TH/SS 3++ which are a pain for anyone.

Eternal warrior, so no ID, and no one wants to get into melee with Th/ss.

Dammit ninja'd

Are the Phoenix Lords aside from Asurmen still without invuls?

 Uriels_Flame wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Fire dragons in a can is still perhaps the definition of "click, delete" for anything that isn't a blob. That many meltas can turn any low model count unit into ashes in seconds. Fire dragons are especially great for making Deathstar based lists cry.

This is a good point here - but with the addition of the Spirit Seerer and turning the basic WG into troops - is the Elite version (Dragons) needed?

I'm going to keep this about the WG/Dragon as the transport is negligible unless I'm missing something overall (besides you get more Dragons into it)

22pt dragon vs. 32pt WG base costs. Fusion vs. Cannon, not to mention the better overall stats of the WG being T6 and having the same 3+ save.

Upgrading a dragon to the Exarch does open up different possibilities and pending on the abilities you use can get you right up to the same point cost per unit.

Thoughts here?

I think that it's going to depend a lot on what, exactly, you want out of the units. I think that the Dragons are a little bit more versatile simply because of the higher model count available and the fact that their weapon is AP1 (which means it increases the chance of a vehicle just up and exploding). If you're assuming a transport is involved, then you're limited to 6 Wraithguard (192) vs. 10 Fire Dragons (220 plus Exarch, though I've not actually run 10 FD's nor an Exarch in forever).

In my opinion, Fire Dragons as stock are probably better in the sense of "when I want a target dead", except maybe when you're dealing with Tyranid Monstrous Creatures (but those are often dealt with better via heavy fire, which the rest of the Eldar Army handles just fine). The higher number of shots available means that they can more effectively deal with units like Terminators where the extra volume of fire matters (considering that both will wound on 2+) while also having a higher chance at outright vehicle destruction (50% 'Explode' results vs 33).

Against multi-wound units (Nobz, Spawn) the Wraithguard will be better thanks to ID, as well as high T critters with invulnerable saves. The Wraithguard will also be better at possibly destroying more than one target as Fire Dragons have a nasty habit of blowing up a tank and then dying (though their new 3+ save might improve that). So, if you want your click-delete unit to also subsequently contest an objective, Wraithguard might be the better choice.

If you want to create a unit specifically for targetting high-value infantry, I think that a better bet than either of these will be Wraithguard with D-Scythes. They're more expensive, but AP2 Flamers (which also ID on 6) are really hard to argue with. The problem is that these guys lose a bit of their versatility (they're not nearly as good at causing Penetration Hits on vehicles, but they do at least still have the ability to do so).

So, I think that it comes down to the following:
-Fire Dragons are better when something absolutely, positively, needs to depart the battlefield
-Wraithguard are better when you are willing to give up a little bit of killing power for a hell of a lot more durability
-D-Guard are better when you specifically want to ensure that you can eradicate high-value infantry

Note: I intentionally left out the discussion regarding Wraithguard as troops, because that's kind of a different topic and because the Spiritseer does add another 70-ish points to the cost of the Wraithguard in the army, which isn't quite trivial enough to ignore.

True, but you have to take some type of HQ anyway

 MandalorynOranj wrote:
Are the Phoenix Lords aside from Asurmen still without invuls?

fuegan has feel no pain and baharoth has a 4++ everyone else no invuln.

Asuraman is insane now with his 3 warlord traits if you roll the one that allows him to reroll 1s on armour saves....he can have a 2+/3++ rerolls 1's.....that dude can take a beating.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Magc8Ball wrote:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Fire dragons in a can is still perhaps the definition of "click, delete" for anything that isn't a blob. That many meltas can turn any low model count unit into ashes in seconds. Fire dragons are especially great for making Deathstar based lists cry.

This is a good point here - but with the addition of the Spirit Seerer and turning the basic WG into troops - is the Elite version (Dragons) needed?

I'm going to keep this about the WG/Dragon as the transport is negligible unless I'm missing something overall (besides you get more Dragons into it)

22pt dragon vs. 32pt WG base costs. Fusion vs. Cannon, not to mention the better overall stats of the WG being T6 and having the same 3+ save.

Upgrading a dragon to the Exarch does open up different possibilities and pending on the abilities you use can get you right up to the same point cost per unit.

Thoughts here?

I think that it's going to depend a lot on what, exactly, you want out of the units. I think that the Dragons are a little bit more versatile simply because of the higher model count available and the fact that their weapon is AP1 (which means it increases the chance of a vehicle just up and exploding). If you're assuming a transport is involved, then you're limited to 6 Wraithguard (192) vs. 10 Fire Dragons (220 plus Exarch, though I've not actually run 10 FD's nor an Exarch in forever).

In my opinion, Fire Dragons as stock are probably better in the sense of "when I want a target dead", except maybe when you're dealing with Tyranid Monstrous Creatures (but those are often dealt with better via heavy fire, which the rest of the Eldar Army handles just fine). The higher number of shots available means that they can more effectively deal with units like Terminators where the extra volume of fire matters (considering that both will wound on 2+) while also having a higher chance at outright vehicle destruction (50% 'Explode' results vs 33).

Against multi-wound units (Nobz, Spawn) the Wraithguard will be better thanks to ID, as well as high T critters with invulnerable saves. The Wraithguard will also be better at possibly destroying more than one target as Fire Dragons have a nasty habit of blowing up a tank and then dying (though their new 3+ save might improve that). So, if you want your click-delete unit to also subsequently contest an objective, Wraithguard might be the better choice.

If you want to create a unit specifically for targetting high-value infantry, I think that a better bet than either of these will be Wraithguard with D-Scythes. They're more expensive, but AP2 Flamers (which also ID on 6) are really hard to argue with. The problem is that these guys lose a bit of their versatility (they're not nearly as good at causing Penetration Hits on vehicles, but they do at least still have the ability to do so).

So, I think that it comes down to the following:
-Fire Dragons are better when something absolutely, positively, needs to depart the battlefield
-Wraithguard are better when you are willing to give up a little bit of killing power for a hell of a lot more durability
-D-Guard are better when you specifically want to ensure that you can eradicate high-value infantry

Note: I intentionally left out the discussion regarding Wraithguard as troops, because that's kind of a different topic and because the Spiritseer does add another 70-ish points to the cost of the Wraithguard in the army, which isn't quite trivial enough to ignore.

I think they are neck and neck but my bet is on wraithguard. I would rather shoot av14 vehicles at 12" at str 10 for a 33% chance of pen then move into 6" range for a 50% chance......yes ap1 is better than ap 2 but even with battle focus and fleet 6" is to close for comfort. Ill take 12" range with toughness 6 personally.

However!! I do not think they are hands down better than fire dragons, especially when you take into account the exarch at bs 5 with fast shot. NICE!!

Yeah, Fire Dragons and WG are close enough that it just could come down to personal preference and the needs of the rest of the army. Which is great, really.

I'm questioning what would be the point in taking valu's wrath platforms which make elder much more stationary as opposed to the fire prisms which are seeming the GO TO choice for pretty much everything it looks like. Heck, I think they are better than hammerheads from Tau now lol

Fire prisms are much better with holo fields and spirit stones then vwp imo, specially with the new lance mode.

I'm looking at Pathfinders as real winners in the new codex. Illic may be mandatory but he is hardly a tax with the potential to one shot most anything in the game.

For Pathfinders though, all their shots are precision which is just beyond huge for taking out enemy characters and weapons.

With stealth and shrouded they get a 4+ cover in the open and will be almost guaranteed to have a 2+ in any cover. I'm seeing them as the perfect backfielders and well worth the cost over rangers.

Night Spinners are better as well, they lost the Dangerous Terrain rule (which is fine since Dangerous Terrain is completely useless in this edition) but gained S8 against vehicles (hitting side armour remember). They also will end up S8 against Necron Wraiths and IG blobs (including the attached Marine character) which are two very popular builds atm that they can cause issue ID on.

@sudojoe. For a slower Eldar army i.e on that uses Wraithguard as its core the Platforms are actually a reasonable buy. Shadow Weavers are still pretty average and D Cannons are a tad expensive (but offer a nice area denial weapon) but the Vibrocannons are fairly reasonable for 90pts. You average S8 AP3 hits per turn, jumping to S9 AP2 if everything hits. If you compare that to Marines units with Missile Launchers they are actually the exact same cost as Long Fangs to get the same number of S8 AP3 hits on average, on a more durable unit. They obviously can't get the same volume of shots, but getting S9 AP2 makes up for that somewhat.

Incidentally (and related to the early topic of discussion) I'm really digging that a Fire Dragon Exarch + Fast Shot is 2 points less than buying another Dragon. If you're really tight on points, you can basically get another dragon (while upgrading "two" of them) to BS5... but at the cost of having one less wound to play with in the unit.

Vaul's Wrath = Multiple Shadow Weavers = Thunderfire Cannons on Crack.

A 3-gun battery of Shadow Weavers gives you 3 S6+ large blast barrage weapons, all artillery. So 6 T7 3+ with 6 crew to go with it. That can be joined by a Warlock for Shrouding.

Three sets of these, and you're looking at IG platform spam, only without needing Forgeworld to do it.

Veskrashen wrote:
Vaul's Wrath = Multiple Shadow Weavers = Thunderfire Cannons on Crack.

A 3-gun battery of Shadow Weavers gives you 3 S6+ large blast barrage weapons, all artillery. So 6 T7 3+ with 6 crew to go with it. That can be joined by a Warlock for Shrouding.

Three sets of these, and you're looking at IG platform spam, only without needing Forgeworld to do it.

Check the FAQ, they changed Shadow Weavers back to being small blast.

Check the FAQ, they changed Shadow Weavers back to being small blast.

hence I'm just not getting very excited by them over the fire prism

Don't have the codex myself and won't for awhile but from what I've seen I have a couple questions.

With the new equipment options and cheaper rangers is there a more usefull way to run a ranger autarch then there was last edition? I know it'll never be the best choice but it's for a friend using a fluff based autarch.

2 What is this relic sniper rifle you speak of?

I know no one has said it yet on this thread at least, but the wraithknight! Now let me clarify, I play dark eldar, and I plan on making an allies list at the moment (I'm slowly going to bring myself back to eldar). So what my detachment of craftworlders is going to look like is, Illic, and a squad of 5 pathfinders (I love the fact that they all have precision strike). I'll use them to pick off hq and other important characters hidden in squads. Also I am going to bring a 330 point wraithknight!!! I know that is a lot of points. But he is huge, and I'll have him kitted out to take out squads. The suncannon and scattershield, a scatter laser and a star cannon. Use the scatterlaser to get laser lock on the squad and then twinlink my 3 blast templates into whichever unlucky unit happens to meet my ire that turn.
For my dark eldar army, I'll have the duke in a raider with 6 incubi, and 10 wyches in a raider, and then 2 5 man squads of wyches in venoms, and then a void raven, and a razorwing jetfighter. Not sure if this is the most viable list (I know for the points (1850) I can make a pretty fast and nasty de army by itself). But I really like everything Illic and his boys bring, and the wraithknight is just badass. I can't wait to get one and start painting it. Airbrush anyone?

CrimsonKing wrote:
I know no one has said it yet on this thread at least, but the wraithknight! Now let me clarify, I play dark eldar, and I plan on making an allies list at the moment (I'm slowly going to bring myself back to eldar). So what my detachment of craftworlders is going to look like is, Illic, and a squad of 5 pathfinders (I love the fact that they all have precision strike). I'll use them to pick off hq and other important characters hidden in squads. Also I am going to bring a 330 point wraithknight!!! I know that is a lot of points. But he is huge, and I'll have him kitted out to take out squads. The suncannon and scattershield, a scatter laser and a star cannon. Use the scatterlaser to get laser lock on the squad and then twinlink my 3 blast templates into whichever unlucky unit happens to meet my ire that turn.
For my dark eldar army, I'll have the duke in a raider with 6 incubi, and 10 wyches in a raider, and then 2 5 man squads of wyches in venoms, and then a void raven, and a razorwing jetfighter. Not sure if this is the most viable list (I know for the points (1850) I can make a pretty fast and nasty de army by itself). But I really like everything Illic and his boys bring, and the wraithknight is just badass. I can't wait to get one and start painting it. Airbrush anyone?

I have an awesome image of a DE corrupted Wraithknight in my head now!

I'm glad I'm not the only one who immediately saw the Laughing Jetarch combo only I also give him a Banshee Mask. Sadly to make full use of him I would have to be able to field more models than I own :/

I am also saddened by the nerf, yes NERF for the Harlequins. The Veil of Tears has been remade in 4th Editions image only now, it requires a psychic test and you can only use it once per turn... really? With no assault vehicles, Harlequins will be hard pressed to survive long enough to assault anything without being shot to hell first.

I love the changes to the Fire Prism and Night Spinner. With the Dispersed profile becoming AP3 and with the addition of the S9 Lance, I am more than willing to pay 10 more points for all that and a slightly weaker Focused profile.

The Night Spinner on the other hand is actually useable. The Doom Weaver is S7 now, in both modes. Mono-filament has been updated to be another 'I can't believe its not Rending' ability which is fine with me. It's Dispersed is a Large Blast now and has a new Focused torrent that absolutely devours infantry, especially Necrons. tasty tasty Necrons. Make a wall of Dire Avengers to block assaults and watch the world burn, BURN I say!

S.K.Ren wrote:
I'm glad I'm not the only one who immediately saw the Laughing Jetarch combo only I also give him a Banshee Mask. Sadly to make full use of him I would have to be able to field more models than I own :/

I am also saddened by the nerf, yes NERF for the Harlequins. The Veil of Tears has been remade in 4th Editions image only now, it requires a psychic test and you can only use it once per turn... really? With no assault vehicles, Harlequins will be hard pressed to survive long enough to assault anything without being shot to hell first.

I love the changes to the Fire Prism and Night Spinner. With the Dispersed profile becoming AP3 and with the addition of the S9 Lance, I am more than willing to pay 10 more points for all that and a slightly weaker Focused profile.

The Night Spinner on the other hand is actually useable. The Doom Weaver is S7 now, in both modes. Mono-filament has been updated to be another 'I can't believe its not Rending' ability which is fine with me. It's Dispersed is a Large Blast now and has a new Focused torrent that absolutely devours infantry, especially Necrons. tasty tasty Necrons. Make a wall of Dire Avengers to block assaults and watch the world burn, BURN I say!

Harlies are probably better, not worse. Veil is a blessing you have to cast once and then everything that attempts to shoot has to roll, not just a single unit. Veil was a powerful ability in 5th and their average threat range is still the same (6+D6"+6 vs 6+ 2D6 with a re-roll). Considering that you can still walk them through terrain freely they are harder to deal with now, you have to roll to see them in the first place and then they probably get 4+ cover on top of that. Throw in a Spiritseer and they get the best of both worlds, 2+ cover and roll to see is going to really frustrate people.

Agree that the Prism and Spinner look like the goto choices for heavy (although everything apart from Falcons look pretty good actually).The Night Spinner is S8 against vehicles hitting side armour, which makes it great for getting rid of annoying Manticores hiding at the back of the board, and will break up Guard parking lots quite nicely. I didn't even click to uses for the torrent profile until you mentioned it, the S8 pie plate against Wraiths is nice but they usually are able to spread out quite well to avoid them (which is fine of Eldar anyway since they can isolate units more easily), but the Torrent template will catch people out as the get up close.

Huh, I guess I misunderstood the power then. Then Harlequins are fine, provided the Shadow Seer doesn't roll perils. Also I believe I got ahead of myself claiming the Doom Weaver would eat Necrons. It will only be marginally better due to the S8 compared to anything else as the AP 1 on a 6 applies to everyone.

What is our best anti air options at the moment?

Slayer222 wrote:
What is our best anti air options at the moment?

The Crimson Hunter. As long as you come in after their Flyers, You should be able to wreck them with ease, thanks to Skyhunter, which allows you to reroll the pen roll, if it failed to pen/glance. All with 4 Strength 8 shots.

I think it has vector dancer too, so I think??? (not sure) that lets you move all crazy like and not bound by the 90 turning radius.

CrimsonKing wrote:
I think it has vector dancer too, so I think??? (not sure) that lets you move all crazy like and not bound by the 90 turning radius.

It does have Vector Dancer as well. The only problem is it is paper-thin. It really needs to come on after your enemy flyers, and things with interceptor and Skyfire will crush it.

 Magc8Ball wrote:
Yeah, Fire Dragons and WG are close enough that it just could come down to personal preference and the needs of the rest of the army. Which is great, really.

I'm considering running both.

A unit of 6 Fire Dragons in a Scatter Falcon - quite an effective double whammy.

A ten man troops choice WG squad with Cannons to take the mid board objective - no one will want to go near this. Could be better to split them up and take them in fives with a spiritseer in a Scatter Serpent.

Two squads of five Scythe Guard in Scatter Serpents to go eradicate infantry.

Add Jetbikes and whatever else to taste.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the subject of Heavy Support... the one I don't like is the Knight. It just doesn't put enough hurt out for it's points cost.

Puscifer wrote:

 Magc8Ball wrote:
Yeah, Fire Dragons and WG are close enough that it just could come down to personal preference and the needs of the rest of the army. Which is great, really.

I'm considering running both.

A unit of 6 Fire Dragons in a Scatter Falcon - quite an effective double whammy.

A ten man troops choice WG squad with Cannons to take the mid board objective - no one will want to go near this. Could be better to split them up and take them in fives with a spiritseer in a Scatter Serpent.

Two squads of five Scythe Guard in Scatter Serpents to go eradicate infantry.

Add Jetbikes and whatever else to taste.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the subject of Heavy Support... the one I don't like is the Knight. It just doesn't put enough hurt out for it's points cost.

Well, I'd consider mounting both Wraithguard and Fire Dragons into Serpents with scatter laser, underslung shuricannon, and holofield.
Here you need to plan ahead since a transport can only move 6'' if the unit wants to disembark.

how did muagen ra fair changes wise

Totally agree wuestenfux.

Pretty much stated the same.

In terms of the FD and WG debate, I'd be inclined to run a larger FD unit (without Exarch) in a Serpent.
The reason is that with an improver armor save, such a unit may no longer be a one-hit wonder.
Otherwise, a 5 men WG unit with wraithcannons could also get the job done.
Moreover, I think there is no need fielding Wraithblades since an Eldar army should have enough fire power to deal with any kind of enemy units, like bladestorm, scatter lasers making weapons twin linked.

So far, I've been running a squad of 10 Wraithguard supported by a Spiritseer, Eldrad and Baron Sathonyx from Dark Eldar.

The squad has a 66% of getting Fortune and if it does it is really hard to take down thanks to a combination of:

T6, Stealth, Shrouded, Fearless, Baron's 2++, Hit and Run and Defensive Grenades.

Even without Fortune, the unit is still pretty beastly.

Iranna.

I may go all in on swooping hawk suicide squads. No scatter on DS and packing haywire grenades. You can also drop a large blast with ignores cover on a blob that is out of LOS and shoot another target. Not bad at 96 pts for 6.

 Iranna wrote:
So far, I've been running a squad of 10 Wraithguard supported by a Spiritseer, Eldrad and Baron Sathonyx from Dark Eldar.

The squad has a 66% of getting Fortune and if it does it is really hard to take down thanks to a combination of:

T6, Stealth, Shrouded, Fearless, Baron's 2++, Hit and Run and Defensive Grenades.

Even without Fortune, the unit is still pretty beastly.

Iranna.

That's overkill. Eldar has so much units with decent fire power that such a unit will not be necessary. Take a Spiritseer and some Wraithguard units in Serpents. They should work well.

 Iranna wrote:
So far, I've been running a squad of 10 Wraithguard supported by a Spiritseer, Eldrad and Baron Sathonyx from Dark Eldar.

The squad has a 66% of getting Fortune and if it does it is really hard to take down thanks to a combination of:

T6, Stealth, Shrouded, Fearless, Baron's 2++, Hit and Run and Defensive Grenades.

Even without Fortune, the unit is still pretty beastly.

Iranna.

Not to mention that the spiritseer could, with its second warp charge, bump the squad up to a 2+ armor save.

Ok in someone completely unfamiliar with Eldar, could someone explain to me the attraction to Seer Councils?

I think farseers, purely as a support casters, got less expensive now that they do not need to buy spells, stones, or even the wards for that matter. However, they are in some ways less valuable on the whole too due to the heavy competition that now exists in the HQ category.

I feel like the double force org option may get its highest use yet from eldar players maximizing their spell-base. Spiritseers and farseers together provide amazing spell versatility! Two of each would be a blessing.

Not to mention the value of Illic..

I think the standard WL loadout may still be viable but it almost seems better to use double BL now. It would make them even more effective at hunting armor and at a lower cost than before. Some anti-horde would be sacrificed of course, but I think that the loss of a single small blast is pretty minor. I can't recall ever using that function before - not with the double flamers available.

 wuestenfux wrote:

That's overkill. Eldar has so much units with decent fire power that such a unit will not be necessary. Take a Spiritseer and some Wraithguard units in Serpents. They should work well.

I use the unit to give me dominance over the midfield and 5/6, this will allow me to control the majority of objectives by preventing enemy units from getting close, whilst my other supporting units can open up tanks and such to allow the Wraithblob to hit infantry unabated if they want to run the gauntlet for objectives.

Iranna.

Shining spears are more attractive than ever; they'll be beautiful command squad hunters - and other specialized low model count power armor squads - as well as armor interceptors. A mere 3 at 75 points, or even 100 with the exarch and star lance, they'll anhihilate those much more expensive SoD command squads.

I'm thinking that this edition might be the renewal of the Starcannon on War Walkers. BS 4 + twin link from SL makes for some effective high strength armor that can ignore any armor save. The 5+ invulnerable seems to really help justify the price boost too. It'll help them move around the board more freely than acting like stationary gun batteries like in the old codex; they needed that cover so badly and now not so much.

am i gonna have to download the pdf to find out it muagen ra (dark reaper pheonix lord) got any buffs as i started player near the end of 4th and he was the first hq i ever bought i liked the scythe lol

 muagenreaper wrote:
am i gonna have to download the pdf to find out it muagen ra (dark reaper pheonix lord) got any buffs as i started player near the end of 4th and he was the first hq i ever bought i liked the scythe lol

He hasn't changed from what I can see.

The battle focus has helped him somewhat.

 muagenreaper wrote:
am i gonna have to download the pdf to find out it muagen ra (dark reaper pheonix lord) got any buffs as i started player near the end of 4th and he was the first hq i ever bought i liked the scythe lol

He' pretty much the same as before, but now has 5 shots with Fast Shot,his weapon is Rending and can run and still shoot.

Iranna.

 muagenreaper wrote:
am i gonna have to download the pdf to find out it muagen ra (dark reaper pheonix lord) got any buffs as i started player near the end of 4th and he was the first hq i ever bought i liked the scythe lol

It's cool I'm still waiting to hear back on my Autarch/ranger question. Found out what the relic sniper rifle is though.

I thought I'd just weigh in on what tactical things I've noticed since reading the over the codex, that I've not seen mentioned (or mentioned much elsewhere)

1- Correct me if I'm wrong, but Farseers can now all basically double-cast Guide, as they have Prescience at the same time (guarenteed too, since they're both Primais powers). Might sound a bit redundant considering Laserlock and BS4, but on Blasts its looking seriously useful. I came up with this little list-piece:

Farseer with Longrifle (taking Fate and Divination primais)
5x Rangers
2x Fire Prisms with Holofields

Just under 500pts and you're scoring and cramming a crapton of versatile firepower down their throats, from the other side of the board, all while rocking a 3+ cover save on all three units. And even the Farseer gets to shoot now!

2- Spiritseer means 70pts to give any unit of your choice Shrouded. A load of units in the codex and battlebrothers already have Stealth for the ridiculous stacking. Baron/Scorpions/Rangers all have it for a start. Also get a free extra random buff or Psychic Shriek if you feel like it. Love this dude.

3- Baharroth has a 4++.

4- INFILTRATE. Karandras and Illic have it. What does this mean children? ANYTHING can have it. Infiltrating D-Cannon Artillery Batteries anyone?

5- Disarm. In most cases, an Avatar or Exarch with this has a 50% chance of removing his foe's PF/TH/LCs etc in a challenge. Not that the Avatar needs help or anything.

6- Illic and Icarus Lascannon. BS9 always precision shot s9 ap2. Might only get to remove one non-character from a squad a turn, but pretty much guaranteed you kill the ******

Edit: 7- Phoenix Lords can join any Aspect now. Not thought of any way to use this just yet, but I'm sure there's some nice tricks out there somewhere!

That's the things I've picked up on so far, definitely some good tactical abus^H^H^H^ I mean tricks available to Eldar in the new book!

Ok, in an effort to come up with some way to get Banshees to be somewhat useful, I had an idea. It is EXTREMELY situational and terrain-dependent, but could possibly work sometimes.

Since Illic can ignore range and LOS restrictions when infiltrating, have hime take the Banshees with him. Now, this'll only work if there is a piece of terrain in or near the enemy's deployment zone that you can hide behind but also make it out of/around on your next turn to assault. So while not reliable, and still not good, I guess it's something for someone who absolutely wants Banshees in his list.

 Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:
Don't have the codex myself and won't for awhile but from what I've seen I have a couple questions.

With the new equipment options and cheaper rangers is there a more usefull way to run a ranger autarch then there was last edition? I know it'll never be the best choice but it's for a friend using a fluff based autarch.

2 What is this relic sniper rifle you speak of?

Not sure what you mean by Ranger Autarch, but an Autarch with the Uldanorethi Long Rifle comes in at about 95 points.

The rifle is a 120" range AP3 sniper rifle.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 warpspider89 wrote:
Shining spears are more attractive than ever; they'll be beautiful command squad hunters - and other specialized low model count power armor squads - as well as armor interceptors. A mere 3 at 75 points, or even 100 with the exarch and star lance, they'll anhihilate those much more expensive SoD command squads.

I'm thinking that this edition might be the renewal of the Starcannon on War Walkers. BS 4 + twin link from SL makes for some effective high strength armor that can ignore any armor save. The 5+ invulnerable seems to really help justify the price boost too. It'll help them move around the board more freely than acting like stationary gun batteries like in the old codex; they needed that cover so badly and now not so much.

I plan on giving the Scatterlaser/Starcannon combo a try right away. The points cost on these guys was well justified, and it was really only about 10 points. BS4 and an Invul save, along with the ability to twin-link one of its own weapons? Hell to the yes. I was just about to shelve these guys with the old codex out of frustration wtih the BS3, and needing Guide or Prescience to hit anything with them. Now I will be hard-pressed to take them out of any list.

 Iranna wrote:

 muagenreaper wrote:
am i gonna have to download the pdf to find out it muagen ra (dark reaper pheonix lord) got any buffs as i started player near the end of 4th and he was the first hq i ever bought i liked the scythe lol

He' pretty much the same as before, but now has 5 shots with Fast Shot,his weapon is Rending and can run and still shoot.

Iranna.

ok so the only thing tat has changed is he can kite well now cool the muagatar always had rending and 4 shots base + 1 for fast shot i took down so many dreadnughts and land raiders cuase of that i heard alll the hqs got the ability to buy upgrade now

 muagenreaper wrote:
ok so the only thing tat has changed is he can kite well now cool the muagatar always had rending and 4 shots base + 1 for fast shot i took down so many dreadnughts and land raiders cuase of that i heard alll the hqs got the ability to buy upgrade now

Holy crap dude... punctuation!

 muagenreaper wrote:
am i gonna have to download the pdf to find out it muagen ra (dark reaper pheonix lord) got any buffs as i started player near the end of 4th and he was the first hq i ever bought i liked the scythe lol

You got the stat description, here's an analysis: He's odd. There's no place to put him. He clearly wants to be in a unit that moves around and runs around, which isn't the Rangers nor Dark Reapers nor Wraithguard. He really wants to be in a unit with a bit of range to make best use of his 24" range and Nightvision which excludes smaller Guardian units and just about any sort of melee unit.

I think there's three logical places to set him up:
* 20-man Guardian uniits to help them with more shots and protect against assaults.
* Dire Avengers since he's clearly the best Shuriken guy out there. And there's nothing stopping him anymore.
* Harlequins as a special guest Death Jester and Troupe Leader in one.

 warpspider89 wrote:
Shining spears are more attractive than ever; they'll be beautiful command squad hunters - and other specialized low model count power armor squads - as well as armor interceptors. A mere 3 at 75 points, or even 100 with the exarch and star lance, they'll anhihilate those much more expensive SoD command squads.

I'm thinking that this edition might be the renewal of the Starcannon on War Walkers. BS 4 + twin link from SL makes for some effective high strength armor that can ignore any armor save. The 5+ invulnerable seems to really help justify the price boost too. It'll help them move around the board more freely than acting like stationary gun batteries like in the old codex; they needed that cover so badly and now not so much.

I plan on giving the Scatterlaser/Starcannon combo a try right away. The points cost on these guys was well justified, and it was really only about 10 points. BS4 and an Invul save, along with the ability to twin-link one of its own weapons? Hell to the yes. I was just about to shelve these guys with the old codex out of frustration wtih the BS3, and needing Guide or Prescience to hit anything with them. Now I will be hard-pressed to take them out of any list.

IMO, there's plenty of reasons to get other stuff as well. Most things in heavy look sexy as hell and I can tell you for a fact that if you get lucky with a Farseer and Divination, Dark Reapers will... reap... everything (except tanks).

 Farseer_Kaiser wrote:
I thought I'd just weigh in on what tactical things I've noticed since reading the over the codex, that I've not seen mentioned (or mentioned much elsewhere)

1- Correct me if I'm wrong, but Farseers can now all basically double-cast Guide, as they have Prescience at the same time (guarenteed too, since they're both Primais powers). Might sound a bit redundant considering Laserlock and BS4, but on Blasts its looking seriously useful. I came up with this little list-piece:

Farseer with Longrifle (taking Fate and Divination primais)
5x Rangers
2x Fire Prisms with Holofields

6- Illic and Icarus Lascannon. BS9 always precision shot s9 ap2. Might only get to remove one non-character from a squad a turn, but pretty much guaranteed you kill the ******

1. Roll for Divination first. If you get Perfect Timing, keep it, otherwise primaris it and roll again. Perfect Timing is likely to benefit you a whole lot more than Prescience.
6. Maugan Ra is another great choice. You give up precision on rolls of 2-4 but you get two rolls. Illic has a really good sniper so having him sit on that thing for other than interceptions is probably a waste.

 muagenreaper wrote:
am i gonna have to download the pdf to find out it muagen ra (dark reaper pheonix lord) got any buffs as i started player near the end of 4th and he was the first hq i ever bought i liked the scythe lol

Please don't request download links---Ryan

Also, Maugen Ra has the most badass fluff ever consisting of two main parts: 1) Fights Tyranid hive fleet by himself, and 2) Goes into Eye of Terror by self, comes out with a craftworld.

 Mustela wrote:

 muagenreaper wrote:
am i gonna have to download the pdf to find out it muagen ra (dark reaper pheonix lord) got any buffs as i started player near the end of 4th and he was the first hq i ever bought i liked the scythe lol

You should tell me were you find the download.

Absolutely not. Any good mod will tell you to keep stuff like that well away from Dakka.

 Mahtamori wrote:

 Mustela wrote:

 muagenreaper wrote:
am i gonna have to download the pdf to find out it muagen ra (dark reaper pheonix lord) got any buffs as i started player near the end of 4th and he was the first hq i ever bought i liked the scythe lol

You should tell me were you find the download.

Absolutely not. Any good mod will tell you to keep stuff like that well away from Dakka.

In that case I apologize. I didn't know. Don't listen to me.

 Mahtamori wrote:
6. Maugan Ra is another great choice. You give up precision on rolls of 2-4 but you get two rolls. Illic has a really good sniper so having him sit on that thing for other than interceptions is probably a waste.

Actually he's a really really bad sniper. Yes he is BS9 and AP2 with ID on a 6, but he needs a 4+ to wound and does NOT ignore Look Out Sir! So 140pts for a <50% chance to snipe a plasma gunner dude a turn.... yeah no thanks. Not saying he's not without his uses, but like Rangers you're not taking him for his damage output. Manning a Quadgun or Icarus is a pretty good use of his talents (as is infiltrating silly things and unlocking Pathfinders, though they're pretty overpriced too).

Yeah, Illic is worthless on his own but stick him in a group of Pathfinders and suddenly Tau might want to hide that Ethereal. After all, all their shots are Precision and odds are a few of those Look Out Sirs will fail. And unless your opponent has an Ignores Cover weapon, they'll have a 2+ cover save for the whole game. 10 Poisoned Rending and 1 AP2 Poisoned Distort shots a turn will chew a pretty nasty hole in any unit. Granted that's a whopping 390 Points so I'd say you should only take it if your opponent has a really annoying model you NEED to take down ASAP.

I'm going to disagree with you on the Illic thing. He doesn't negate lookout sir, but you can bring pathfinders, which do the same thing as him. So a bunch of precision shots at a squad are going to take out that guy. I wouldn't always have to shoot at the character in the squad either. What If I wanted to take out the special weapon guy?

 Homeskillet wrote:

 Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:
Don't have the codex myself and won't for awhile but from what I've seen I have a couple questions.

With the new equipment options and cheaper rangers is there a more usefull way to run a ranger autarch then there was last edition? I know it'll never be the best choice but it's for a friend using a fluff based autarch.

2 What is this relic sniper rifle you speak of?

Not sure what you mean by Ranger Autarch, but an Autarch with the Uldanorethi Long Rifle comes in at about 95 points.

The rifle is a 120" range AP3 sniper rifle.

By Autarch Ranger I just mean running a Autarch with a squad of rangers. Thanks for the reply though

I keep hearing how you have to take Illic for Pathfinders, is this literal in that you have to have him in order to take Pathfinders or is he just too good not to have with them?

 Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:

By Autarch Ranger I just mean running a Autarch with a squad of rangers. Thanks for the reply though

I keep hearing how you have to take Illic for Pathfinders, is this literal in that you have to have him in order to take Pathfinders or is he just too good not to have with them?

Illic unlocks the Pathfinder upgrade for your Rangers.

Ok, not a Tactic thing but - i really like the look of the dual falchion wraithguard, but will probably not field them like that.

Would it be out of place to get one painted up and have him count as my spiritseerer?

I haven't seen anyone mention Vectored Engines. Pivot Serpents so they're driving in reverse, deploy, spin the turret to fire during shooting, then use your free pivot to point your front armor at the enemy. You can do the same thing to pick up troops to move them.

So I have play tested against Dark Angels today and I must say that the WK does not disappoint. He is a huge target for the lascannons and such, but that is kind of what you want especially with vehicles in your army. Going back to the battle though here are the pros and cons I found with the WK (suncannon, SL):

Pros:
5++ is actually great and worth the points. Not many things are AP 3 AND able to wound the WK multiple times before they go kaboom.

SL, Suncannon combo is without a doubt the way to go if your going ranged.

The guy is I 5 with 4 base attacks....You can have him the sword and shield instead if you don't want to go that high in points and he will perform like a boss.

Suncannon blows termies sky high.

Cons:

Not exactly mobile, but he can move around adequately (had low dice rolls when i moved in the assault phase).

WS 4. Use the WK to tie up scary scary units, tank huntin or as bait while going after the enemies heavy.



What else I gleamed from my battle was that the Crimson hunter=badass, Battlefocus with shuriken weapons is really unfair, but not for the Eldar . The Avatar with fast shot is definitely something to consider because shooting 2 meltas instead of one is always better and can potentially blow up that landraider folks keep talking about .

Eldrad can get really ridiculous with his warp charge renewal. I didn't use the Runes of fate and went Divination and Telekenesis and I am glad I did. I rolled Forewarning/misfortune and then Puppet master/psychic shriek. One turn I casted 6 Psychic powers using Eldrad alone and used puppet master like 3 times.

GTKA666 wrote:
Eldrad can get really ridiculous with his warp charge renewal. I didn't use the Runes of fate and went Divination and Telekenesis and I am glad I did. I rolled Forewarning/misfortune and then Puppet master/psychic shriek. One turn I casted 6 Psychic powers using Eldrad alone and used puppet master like 3 times.

Just because he has the Warp Charges doesn't give him permission to cast the same power multiple times per turn. In the old codex his staff gave him specific permission to cast a power twice, but now that's gone. So only one of each power per turn.

 MandalorynOranj wrote:

GTKA666 wrote:
Eldrad can get really ridiculous with his warp charge renewal. I didn't use the Runes of fate and went Divination and Telekenesis and I am glad I did. I rolled Forewarning/misfortune and then Puppet master/psychic shriek. One turn I casted 6 Psychic powers using Eldrad alone and used puppet master like 3 times.

Just because he has the Warp Charges doesn't give him permission to cast the same power multiple times per turn. In the old codex his staff gave him specific permission to cast a power twice, but now that's gone. So only one of each power per turn.

I thought it was you can't cast it on the same unit. Looks like I need to look at that again. Woops.

GTKA666 wrote:
So I have play tested against Dark Angels today and I must say that the WK does not disappoint. He is a huge target for the lascannons and such, but that is kind of what you want especially with vehicles in your army. Going back to the battle though here are the pros and cons I found with the WK (suncannon, SL):

Pros:
5++ is actually great and worth the points. Not many things are AP 3 AND able to wound the WK multiple times before they go kaboom.

SL, Suncannon combo is without a doubt the way to go if your going ranged.

The guy is I 5 with 4 base attacks....You can have him the sword and shield instead if you don't want to go that high in points and he will perform like a boss.

Suncannon blows termies sky high.

Cons:

Not exactly mobile, but he can move around adequately (had low dice rolls when i moved in the assault phase).

WS 4. Use the WK to tie up scary scary units, tank huntin or as bait while going after the enemies heavy.



What else I gleamed from my battle was that the Crimson hunter=badass, Battlefocus with shuriken weapons is really unfair, but not for the Eldar . The Avatar with fast shot is definitely something to consider because shooting 2 meltas instead of one is always better and can potentially blow up that landraider folks keep talking about .

Eldrad can get really ridiculous with his warp charge renewal. I didn't use the Runes of fate and went Divination and Telekenesis and I am glad I did. I rolled Forewarning/misfortune and then Puppet master/psychic shriek. One turn I casted 6 Psychic powers using Eldrad alone and used puppet master like 3 times.

How are you moving in the Assault Phase? It's Jump MC, not Jet.

Also, you're paying 300 points for the Scatter-sun upgrade. It just doesn't seem worth it to me, there. Maybe i'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around it, but that price just seems so out of whack for what you get. I would just expect more.

You can still move 2d6 in the assault phase if you haven't used your jump pack.

GTKA666 wrote:
You can still move 2d6 in the assault phase if you haven't used your jump pack.

No you can't.

 Sasori wrote:

GTKA666 wrote:
You can still move 2d6 in the assault phase if you haven't used your jump pack.

No you can't.

....>.>..... I don't own the BRB, but I am positive that jump units can move in the assault phase....or is their only benefit to being jump the reroll failed jump into assault?

GTKA666 wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

GTKA666 wrote:
You can still move 2d6 in the assault phase if you haven't used your jump pack.

No you can't.

....>.>..... I don't own the BRB, but I am positive that jump units can move in the assault phase....or is their only benefit to being jump the reroll failed jump into assault?

Jetpack units can make a thrust move in the Assault Phase, not Jump. If you don't use your Jump pack in the Movement phase, the only benefit you receive during the assault phase is to reroll the charge distance dice.

WOOPSIES!!! Crap too many misunderstood rules in game. Well thank god I decided to post almost exactly how I used him. O well I now have an evil plan for the WK and his Jump pack now.

Going back to his usefulness though. In that game he wiped out 5 termies off the face of the planet turn one and they were worth 250 points....soo ya he got his points back turn one and anything after that was gravy. Not to mention he has a huge fear factor and it allowed my Avatar to get at his Landraider while the WK took only 3 wounds in total from being fired at by his Landraider and Flyer (the 11/11/11) the entire time they were alive . The real only way to make me scared of the WK dying is from psn and hopefully I can get a match in with the DE player at my FLGS to see if I can successfully prevent his psn from reaching me. I will agree to the egregious point cost, but it is dignified by the suncannon.

Like most units that look meh on paper, it is how the unit or model is used which determines their usefulness.

I'm going to have to admit that the Knight is actually effective, but... and this is a massive but... you have to be prepared to acknowledge that he just won't put out a lot of hurt every turn unless you build him to do so.

He's probably in the top two most resilient units in the game and his role of distraction device is why you should take it.

If you are taking it to dish out pain, look else where. You can get two Fire Prism for one stock Knight and they will do the same, if not more damage.

How many points is he with a Sword/Shield + Two shoulder weapons? Seems like the best combo, depending on the points.

(I don't play Eldar, I suppose I could wait for Battlescribe to update, buttttt....)

Puscifer wrote:
I'm going to have to admit that the Knight is actually effective, but... and this is a massive but... you have to be prepared to acknowledge that he just won't put out a lot of hurt every turn unless you build him to do so.

He's probably in the top two most resilient units in the game and his role of distraction device is why you should take it.

If you are taking it to dish out pain, look else where. You can get two Fire Prism for one stock Knight and they will do the same, if not more damage.

You forget that the WK can charge what is left after the smoke clears. Usually not many units are left after 3 blast of S6 AP 2

10 pts for sword/shield. But sword is kinda useless on him. Shoulder weapons are 20pts per piece.

I am very excited about the Fire Prism's cascade of ap 3, 2, and 1 (lance!) for fire modes. There versatility and effectiveness is bordering on ridiculous, Very elegant and scary, I am glad I have 3 of them. I am also glad the flyers do not complete with the grav tanks for the FOC.

I can't wait to get in a game with the new rules. Eldar are going to feel so fast again! They needed an extra movement "edge" after all units gained the ability to run. Plus, the laser-lock will be a standard benefit to reap with units like Waveserpents or falcons.

One thing I was just thinking of is taking a unit of 3 Vypers, one with a Scatterlaser, the rest with Shuriken Cannons, and all underslung Shuriken Cannons (war walkers can do this too, but I prefer Vypers because of Jink). Against any normal target, you are very likely to get one Scatterlaser hit, then ... 15 TL bs4 s6 shots with Bladestorm. There are lots of fun ways to approach anti-infantry or anti-tank. Laser lock is such a cool rule.

Can anyone tell me how many Wraithguards can be transported in a Wave Serpent?

evildrspock wrote:I am very excited about the Fire Prism's cascade of ap 3, 2, and 1 (lance!) for fire modes. There versatility and effectiveness is bordering on ridiculous, Very elegant and scary, I am glad I have 3 of them. I am also glad the flyers do not complete with the grav tanks for the FOC.

I can't wait to get in a game with the new rules. Eldar are going to feel so fast again! They needed an extra movement "edge" after all units gained the ability to run. Plus, the laser-lock will be a standard benefit to reap with units like Waveserpents or falcons.

One thing I was just thinking of is taking a unit of 3 Vypers, one with a Scatterlaser, the rest with Shuriken Cannons, and all underslung Shuriken Cannons (war walkers can do this too, but I prefer Vypers because of Jink). Against any normal target, you are very likely to get one Scatterlaser hit, then ... 15 TL bs4 s6 shots with Bladestorm. There are lots of fun ways to approach anti-infantry or anti-tank. Laser lock is such a cool rule.

Laser lock is per model basis this does not work.

Gravity wrote:Can anyone tell me how many Wraithguards can be transported in a Wave Serpent?

6 (bulky with a 12 capacity for a waveserpent)

Thank you anasacs! So you basically want the Spiritseer in there with 5 Wraithguards then, or is there any cons to make the Spiritseer go with the squad?

 evildrspock wrote:

One thing I was just thinking of is taking a unit of 3 Vypers, one with a Scatterlaser, the rest with Shuriken Cannons, and all underslung Shuriken Cannons (war walkers can do this too, but I prefer Vypers because of Jink). Against any normal target, you are very likely to get one Scatterlaser hit, then ... 15 TL bs4 s6 shots with Bladestorm. There are lots of fun ways to approach anti-infantry or anti-tank. Laser lock is such a cool rule.

No! Laser lock is for the model not the unit, only the one with the Scatter Laser would get twin linked.

 Gravity wrote:
Thank you anasacs! So you basically want the Spiritseer in there with 5 Wraithguards then, or is there any cons to make the Spiritseer go with the squad?

I would definitely put the spiritseer in there for the majority of lists. The vehicle is a tough nut to crack and then the unit inside is even tougher. When the wraiths get out the spiritseer can use his abilities to up their effectiveness against whateve they want to nuke.

Okey, so you would even consider running 2 Spiritseers in 2 different groups in the same way, for lets say.. anti-horde?

Probably not as I would mainly use the spiritseer to unlock wraiths as troops. D-scythes are plenty of anti-horde and 70 pts is half of the waveserpent they ride (again pretty good anti horde from firing the wave serpent shield).

I've had a good read of the Dex and I'm shocked with the amount of versatile units in this army. It's bordering on insane.

I've made a list of what I want to include in my army. If you guys can comment on my choices, I'd be most grateful:

Avatar - Tough, can shoot twice and is nails in cc.

Farseer - Guide and Prescience for helping the long range shooting units.

Autarch - Only used for the Reserve shenanigans.

Windriders - Point for point probably the best troops choice in the game when paired with a Warlock with Conceal.

Scorpions - Loads of attacks, infiltrate and stealth plus the Exarch is a bit of a monster.

Fire Dragons - Point and click removal of Tanks and Elite heavy infantry. Exarch can fire twice. Large unit in a Scatter Serpent would be nice.

Harlequins - Stupidly effective cc with tons of attacks that can be upgraded to rend. Can also close in on foot due to the Spiritseer.

Swooping Hawks - The only things these guys aren't good at taking out are Flyers (because they can't) and Terminators, but the mass of fire they can shell out is pretty sick.

Warp Spiders - Great at taking out light vehicles and annoying units. AV 10-11 just crumples under their firepower. Pretty ok against Necrons and Orks.

Crimson Hunter Exarch - BS 5 anti armour is a very scary thing.

Dark Reapers - Expensive but can be upgraded to wipe anything that isn't a Terminator or Land Raider. A large squad with the Krak upgrade plus an Exarch with Flakk missiles and Fast Shot is very scary when paired with a Farseer.

Fire Prism - Best tank in game for the amount of utility it has.

Falcon - Fire Dragons love this and it is a great tank when equipped with SL and SC.

War Walkers - With an EML with Flakk and a SL, these guys are great vs all units and you don't need a Farseer to Guide them.

With the above units, the old adage of paying for utility is present, but I want to take advantage of the fact that I won't have a useless unit on the board and that every unit will near enough have an answer to everything.

Any comments?

You're missing Shining Spears, they look great too

Just remeber that eldar are like scalpels its a precision army no matter how you take it.
not very forgiving no matter how you build.
hopefully ragewind puts out a tatica

 shamikebab wrote:
You're missing Shining Spears, they look great too

They don't do enough for me.

Once they charge, they are locked in a combat they can't win and they just can't do enough damage on a charge.

I've seen a large marines squad survive a charge and butcher a unit in return.

Not impressed with them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I've just thought though, the Avatar would be going up unsupported, whereas Karandras or an Autarch would be better suited for my army.

Moreso Karandras as he is a beast in cc and would have more ablative wounds than the Avatar and lose nothing in CC when compared to it. If anything, he's probably better than the Avatar in cc.

Puscifer wrote:

 shamikebab wrote:
You're missing Shining Spears, they look great too

They don't do enough for me.

Once they charge, they are locked in a combat they can't win and they just can't do enough damage on a charge.

I've seen a large marines squad survive a charge and butcher a unit in return.

Not impressed with them.

Hit and Run from the Exarch. Skilled rider makes them very survivable to shooting. Their charge turn should be pretty devastating in combat now (only negative is no grenades so stuff will need to be in the open really)

Are you talking about old Shining Spears? Because they're much cheaper now and more effective.

I got my first couple of games out yesterday. I tried 10 Dark reapers behind an aegis with Eldrad - with doom and guide (rolled ok on 2, the other powers were death mission and mind war...)

10 Dark Reapers = 1 MEQ squad per turn. They ignore Jink saves - Put them manning your aegis quad gun. It helped that I rolled the warlord trait split fire and then had Asurmen lead them for a bit. This meant I could shoot missiles at squads while having the quad gun shoot fliers.

I put some Dire Avengers behind my aegis - I went to ground for the two up and then next turn Asurmen joined them, so it made them fearless and able to shoot again.

Asurmen is a good defensive character, but he doesn't do enough hurt to warrent charging with DA.

Overall - 10 DR is complete overkill.
I could probably have achieved the same with 5-6 DR.

Puscifer wrote:
Any comments?

It's a nice list, but I think you are missing a couple of very important other advantages.

Guardians - Cheap BS4 infantry with a long range heavy weapon and infantry-rending short range weapons, on a Troop choice.

Wraithguard - T6 Av 3+ unit with (short range) STR 10 AP 2 instant death weapons, on a Troop choice.

Windrider Jetbikes - T4 Av 3+ Eldar Jetbike movement, with twinlinked infantry-rending weapons, on a Troop choice.

Spiritseer/Warlocks - Awesome buffbots for above.

I think these are the real winners in the new Codex.

Why does Maugan Ra have relentless?

Ra is relentless, but with an Assault weapon I don't know why he needs it.

Am I missing something with Swooping Hawks? It's still a S3 AP5 gun. What are you doing with them when your opponent is all MEQ or better?

Maugan Ra has Relentless because his aspect has it. Only use I could see is doing some Battle Focus shenanigans on an ADL gun.

This was with the new Shining Spears.

I saw a guy plow five into a ten man marine squad.

They cut down two to shooting, only four to the charge, but they lost one to Overwatch and three in cc, leaving the Exarch.

In regards to the additional choices...

Taking Guardians just for the weapons platform is a huge waste of points. Eldar armies cannot waste points. Also even in large squads they can't survive more than a single charge or a dedicated turn of shooting.

Large 10 man reaper squads seem like a waste. 7 or 8 seem to be the sweet spot when backed with Guide.

I definitely didn't forget the Jetbikes... they are up there. Definitely taking a Conceal Warlock for those lovely 2+ Jink Saves.

Wraithguard... I like them a lot. But only as Troops. If I take them as troops, I will miss out on a Farseer or Karandras.
I might swap out the Harlies for Scythe Guard or a large unit of Wraithblades, but Blades have no transport to assault from and Scythe Guard have very limited range.

As for Troops choices, how many would be good for 1500 - 1850?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hawks have 3 shots each. Thirty shots can hurt MEQ.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also... Hawks murder tanks of all forms.

30 shots turns into 20 hits (BS4)

20 hits turns into just under 7 wounds (S3 vs T4)

7 wounds turns into 2 dead marines (3+ save)

I'm not sure Hawks are in the top 3 Fast choices.

War Spiders and Crimson Hunters have some pretty impressive abilities (let's just get over the fact that the Hunters are fragile; they're eldar. the whole codex is fragile)

Vypers are decent.

Shining Spears make me curious.

haven't really looked at the Hemlock but i don't think it's as good as the Crimson Hunter.

I was briefly tempted to run a min squad of hawks, deep strike behind a tank and use the st4 grenade pack, throw a haywire grenade and then open fire the with the S5 hawks talon from the exarch - that should get a couple of hull points off anything with a rear armour of 10.

Not very effective though.

 chelsea_hollywood wrote:
30 shots turns into 20 hits (BS4)

20 hits turns into just under 7 wounds (S3 vs T4)

7 wounds turns into 2 dead marines (3+ save)

I'm not sure Hawks are in the top 3 Fast choices.

War Spiders and Crimson Hunters have some pretty impressive abilities (let's just get over the fact that the Hunters are fragile; they're eldar. the whole codex is fragile)

Vypers are decent.

Shining Spears make me curious.

haven't really looked at the Hemlock but i don't think it's as good as the Crimson Hunter.

I really think Hawks have great potential as point clearers. Come in, shoot unit on an objective, leave, repeat.

I can't say I disagree with any of your points. However I would like to add something:

Dark Reapers - Expensive but can be upgraded to wipe anything that isn't a Terminator or Land Raider. A large squad with the Krak upgrade plus an Exarch with Flakk missiles and Fast Shot is very scary when paired with a Farseer.

- Eldar are known for their unit synergy. Get a Warlock with Jinx to cast it on Terminators (making their save 3+) then fire away!! Sure it won't happen often but the look on your opponents face will be worth it when it does!

My plan with them is to DS T2, template a unit and blast them then run away into cover or near a tank. Assault the Tank next turn.

Big tanks like Raiders and Monolith die to this really good.

Tried it in test games, works ok so far.

Worked great against my Orks too :-/

So far, I'm still seeing the step-children (Banshees/Swooping Hawks) as pointless. Spiders do a better job and can handle more than hawks and Harlies are better than Banshees.

7th ed - maybe we'll see their craftworlds destroyed but a "new" craftworld found that just happens to have "Swooping Sirens".

They wrote the Zoats/Old ones out of the codex currently, but the spririt seerer was a good addition, imo.

I'm still trying to figure out a way to get Reapers in my list as 1) Them, their Exarch, Aspect, and Death Jester are the coolest models (next to spider exarchs); 2) Rules are great.

I'm just stuck in my head with the idea of 2 Stripped WraithLords, 3 Walkers with SL/BL, and the Avatar wrecking face. Difference with playing aggressive vs denial?

Like I've posted earlier - my beloved Dragons are even facing competition from Scorps and the ability to put those WG in the troop slot just seals that area up.

So I'm finally diving in for jetseer and a couple jetlocks. Not a full council, but enough to spread between other units. The extra survivability alone is worth the 15 points.

As foot seer I rarely went Singing Spear because of the range (and 1 less attack), but that's less of an issue with jetbikes and now you no longer lose an attack. Do you think it's worth the 5pts upgrade?

For the locks I might get a spear or two but not all of them.

Okay, have the Hemlock Wraithfighter, looks awesome, fluff is awesome, best ways to make it shine?

I play Alaitoc, I'm loving it for my Rangers already, pinning down Fearless units seems fun. Eldar have a lot of ways to force checks with pinning rangers, EMLs, and Tank shocking serpents that laugh at Death or Glory.
If only there was a reliable way to get the -3Ld power into play, but I think that becomes too much effort.

It's about the cheapest upgrade you can do to add a little more flexibility.

PredaKhaine wrote:
Why does Maugan Ra have relentless?

to confer onto the reapers as they are his aspect warriors

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
Okay, have the Hemlock Wraithfighter, looks awesome, fluff is awesome, best ways to make it shine?

I play Alaitoc, I'm loving it for my Rangers already, pinning down Fearless units seems fun. Eldar have a lot of ways to force checks with pinning rangers, EMLs, and Tank shocking serpents that laugh at Death or Glory.
If only there was a reliable way to get the -3Ld power into play, but I think that becomes too much effort.

Autuarch is a help, as he still modifies reserve rolls. I also like the rules for this fighter and have enough D-cannons to buy the cheaper $45 DE version and still make it presentable.

 muagenreaper wrote:

PredaKhaine wrote:
Why does Maugan Ra have relentless?

to confer onto the reapers as they are his aspect warriors

They already have Slow and Purposeful, what does Relentless offer over that? (I genuinely can't remember!)

So has anybody figured out how we are going to deal with lists that contain 2 flyers and an ADL?

Mebbe I'm missing something...but that ADL can tear our flyers a new one...leaving us with Warwalkers and Dark Reapers as AA with no interceptor(good luck keeping Dark Reapers alive against Baleflames...).

 shamikebab wrote:

 muagenreaper wrote:

PredaKhaine wrote:
Why does Maugan Ra have relentless?

to confer onto the reapers as they are his aspect warriors

They already have Slow and Purposeful, what does Relentless offer over that? (I genuinely can't remember!)

well thats different fro the last codex so idk why hed have such a useless rule for him wait isnt a adl turret heavy theres its use lol

Has anyone else noticed that you can upgrade any of the warlocks to jetbikes, and then assign them to non-jetbike squads? I guess it gets him a 3+ save in addition to his 4++, twin linked ShuriCatapults and a +1 toughness. (though that won't matter until you get down to the last two models in the squad, due to the majority toughness rules.)

They already have Slow and Purposeful, what does Relentless offer over that? (I genuinely can't remember!)

It will allow them to run, and also to assault after shooting.

Ah, I can't imagine many scenarios where I'd want to do either with Dark reapers really!

milo wrote:
though that won't matter until you get down to the last two models in the squad, due to the majority toughness rules.

Tats why no body has really noticed it there is no point. sure there is the dd time where a model or 2 makes the game in a unit that was destroyed. but for the most part when the Toughness 4 takes effect the unit will be nigh on useless.

 shamikebab wrote:

 evildrspock wrote:

One thing I was just thinking of is taking a unit of 3 Vypers, one with a Scatterlaser, the rest with Shuriken Cannons, and all underslung Shuriken Cannons (war walkers can do this too, but I prefer Vypers because of Jink). Against any normal target, you are very likely to get one Scatterlaser hit, then ... 15 TL bs4 s6 shots with Bladestorm. There are lots of fun ways to approach anti-infantry or anti-tank. Laser lock is such a cool rule.

No! Laser lock is for the model not the unit, only the one with the Scatter Laser would get twin linked.

Ugh, I gotta get used to all these new rules, thanks for the rules clarification everyone.

Puscifer wrote:
I definitely didn't forget the Jetbikes... they are up there. Definitely taking a Conceal Warlock for those lovely 2+ Jink Saves.

This will be awesome. All jetbike units can reliably survive this way, very cool. And a drop in points from previous edition, to boot! I think Ill take the extra 6 jetbikes I purchased for a larger Jetseer Council and (since you can't have more than 10 warlocks per detachment, anyways) make a 2nd 6 man Windrider Jetbike + Spearlock unit.

I like how the Spiritseer basically took the place of any warlock you would give to the Wraithguard in the previous codex. It is a fitting rules change that Wraithguard and Wraithlords lost Wraithsight and Warlock compatibility, as they still so clearly benefit from a Spiritseer anyways.

I'm thinking about Running Maugen Ra as an HQ with Dire Avengers, Dark Reapers and a Crimson Hunter or two. The Dire Avengers got a nice boost being able to move shoot run, essentially rending, oh and counter attack! Give the Exarch a Dire Sword and you'll be kicking some severe butt in a challenge, not to mention doing some damn good overwatch! Defensively speaking, I think Dire Avengers are freaking awesome!!!
Dark Reapers got a damn fine boost! They can do realiable antitank now with their krak missiles, or scythe down MEQs. I'm not sure is they get fast shot, or if that's Exarch only, but twould be scary!!!!
The Crimson Hunter is an AWESOME anti-flyer! Upgrade to an exarch to maximise each shot! Great for anti Land Raider as well, what with 4 S8 Lance shots!

At a tournament I just played in on Sunday there were 3 eldar players including me. I hadn’t read the codex in depth but I did play someone who had. (he also somehow had time to build a wraithknight)
And one strategy that he used with his wraithknight was to put one scatter laser on his shoulder and one suncannon. Let me tell you that it was DEADLY. first he scatter lasered the most powerful unit on my side, softening it up and making the suncannon twin linked due to the laser lock special rule. Let me tell you how hard this was to defeat. I think I would rather face two vindicators (is that spelled right?) than face that beast. I realize that people will probally say something like “ why don’t you kill it with your bla bla bla” or “my bla bla bla could kill it easily” well he got first turn and he blew all of my most dangerous model off the board with that thing. Any good ways to consistently kill that thing?

 nonowho wrote:
At a tournament I just played in on Sunday there were 3 eldar players including me. I hadn’t read the codex in depth but I did play someone who had. (he also somehow had time to build a wraithknight)
And one strategy that he used with his wraithknight was to put one scatter laser on his shoulder and one suncannon. Let me tell you that it was DEADLY. first he scatter lasered the most powerful unit on my side, softening it up and making the suncannon twin linked due to the laser lock special rule. Let me tell you how hard this was to defeat. I think I would rather face two vindicators (is that spelled right?) than face that beast. I realize that people will probally say something like “ why don’t you kill it with your bla bla bla” or “my bla bla bla could kill it easily” well he got first turn and he blew all of my most dangerous model off the board with that thing. Any good ways to consistently kill that thing?

Dark Reapers. They now have a S8 ap3 single shot as well as the traditional S5 ap3 Heavy 2. 5 shots will put 2 wounds on it, statistically speaking. Also, rangers. To hit rolls of 6 make them ap1 I believe. Snipers, poisoned weapons, and anti-tank weapons are the only thing that can really realliably damage the WK.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, is it just me, or does the Crimson Hunter look like Latias from Pokemon?!

So just to confirm my understanding of scatter laser, a warwalker with dual scatter lasers does not benefit from laser lock since both lasers have to fire first correct?

lol, that's probably not a good thing. But yeah, I can see it.

 ironicsilence wrote:
So just to confirm my understanding of scatter laser, a warwalker with dual scatter lasers does not benefit from laser lock since both lasers have to fire first correct?

Correct.

 ironicsilence wrote:
So just to confirm my understanding of scatter laser, a warwalker with dual scatter lasers does not benefit from laser lock since both lasers have to fire first correct?

I'm not sure why the created a special rule - when they could have just said Scatter Laser does "x". It's the only weapon with the special rule, but I digress...

All shots are simultaneous - but you have to complete the Scatter Laser first - like step 1a: if it hits then: all weapons yet to fire on the single model become TL.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't piggyback seeing as the SL fires first - so it would seem dual SL may be worse situation as you're not going to get to TL anything "after" .

I'm looking at SL/BL atm, but I smell a trap as what we'll probably see more of is the SL/EML set-up. I just don't want to spend 90pts/ea for one.

I wonder if scatter laser + star cannon will be the new layout of choice for warwalkers of it its better to just stick with dual lasers and not worry about laser lock, can still hit them with guide

 Uriels_Flame wrote:

 ironicsilence wrote:
So just to confirm my understanding of scatter laser, a warwalker with dual scatter lasers does not benefit from laser lock since both lasers have to fire first correct?

I'm not sure why the created a special rule - when they could have just said Scatter Laser does "x". It's the only weapon with the special rule, but I digress...

All shots are simultaneous - but you have to complete the Scatter Laser first - like step 1a: if it hits then: all weapons yet to fire on the single model become TL.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't piggyback seeing as the SL fires first - so it would seem dual SL may be worse situation as you're not going to get to TL anything "after" .

I'm looking at SL/BL atm, but I smell a trap as what we'll probably see more of is the SL/EML set-up. I just don't want to spend 90pts/ea for one.

Isn't it mathematically better to just take two of them?

The only situation I can really see myself using it is with the Wraithlord's Suncannon or with a Shuriken Cannon on a Vyper/War Walker (that way you're at least using two weapons that target the same type of enemy)

 Aleph-Sama wrote:
I'm thinking about Running Maugen Ra as an HQ with Dire Avengers, Dark Reapers and a Crimson Hunter or two. The Dire Avengers got a nice boost being able to move shoot run, essentially rending, oh and counter attack! Give the Exarch a Dire Sword and you'll be kicking some severe butt in a challenge, not to mention doing some damn good overwatch! Defensively speaking, I think Dire Avengers are freaking awesome!!!
Dark Reapers got a damn fine boost! They can do realiable antitank now with their krak missiles, or scythe down MEQs. I'm not sure is they get fast shot, or if that's Exarch only, but twould be scary!!!!
The Crimson Hunter is an AWESOME anti-flyer! Upgrade to an exarch to maximise each shot! Great for anti Land Raider as well, what with 4 S8 Lance shots!

woot someone else i got to run muagen ra lol i love that scythe weilding beast of an hq now to get my freind to get his own so i can get mine back and put him in a place of honor to collect dust as necrons are more my play style tough as nails necromantic robots

I like putting more on the table, and with the costs of upgrading everything, my Lords are bare boned with flamers. I plan on shielding them with 3 WW and again, trying to keep them on the cheap too - though I do like having more shots.

Since the rest of what I run has short range but Str 8/10, maybe I can ditch the BL for SC.

But yes - BS 4 dual SL should still put a big hurt on whatever it shoots.

Damn - actually the more I think of it - 3 WW with dual SL would be what - Heavy 24, Str 6?

 shamikebab wrote:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:

 ironicsilence wrote:
So just to confirm my understanding of scatter laser, a warwalker with dual scatter lasers does not benefit from laser lock since both lasers have to fire first correct?

I'm not sure why the created a special rule - when they could have just said Scatter Laser does "x". It's the only weapon with the special rule, but I digress...

All shots are simultaneous - but you have to complete the Scatter Laser first - like step 1a: if it hits then: all weapons yet to fire on the single model become TL.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't piggyback seeing as the SL fires first - so it would seem dual SL may be worse situation as you're not going to get to TL anything "after" .

I'm looking at SL/BL atm, but I smell a trap as what we'll probably see more of is the SL/EML set-up. I just don't want to spend 90pts/ea for one.

Isn't it mathematically better to just take two of them?

The only situation I can really see myself using it is with the Wraithlord's Suncannon or with a Shuriken Cannon on a Vyper/War Walker (that way you're at least using two weapons that target the same type of enemy)

With the old Codex I had a 3 walker unit with twin scatter lasers, and a 3 walker unit with tin bright lances. At first I thought change them to 2 units with Scatter laser Bright lance. Then i realize that those weapons serve two different functions so not sure if it would be worth it.

 shamikebab wrote:
The only situation I can really see myself using [scatterlasers with laserlock] is with the Wraithlord's Suncannon or with a Shuriken Cannon on a Vyper/War Walker (that way you're at least using two weapons that target the same type of enemy)

It would also be an effective way to help Falcons be more reliable anti tank. The difference between a falcon and a Crimson Hunter are not too terribly far off; going from BS3 in the previous edition to BS4 + the option of laserlocking with a Scatter Laser makes those 2 s8 ap2 shots quite a bit scarier. If I decide to run Falcons over Fire Prisms (the only reason I see being the extra transport capacity for small Fire Dragons, Striking Scorpions, or a Dire Avenger squads), I think this is a still quite reliable anti vehicle option. Sure it can't punch though land raiders, but that's why it's delivering the Fire Dragons. Or, it can try to pull the old pop-the-Rhino, scorch-the-marines trick as well.

Edit: Clearly the Crimson Hunter does it better (albeit the Hunter will snap-shot land dwelling vehicles) because of it Skyhunter, but the Falcon still got better. It is a versatile unit that while not having as many bells and whistles up front can provide some very useful tactics.

Good call, I still wish Falcons were dedicated transports. I'm just not sure I can face giving up the other HS options to take one. Really they just needed to spread our options out more, War Walkers and Falcons could easily be elsewhere :(

 shamikebab wrote:
Good call, I still wish Falcons were dedicated transports. I'm just not sure I can face giving up the other HS options to take one. Really they just needed to spread our options out more, War Walkers and Falcons could easily be elsewhere :(

Agreed - I was kind hoping the Walkers would get thrown into the FA slot.

 shamikebab wrote:
Good call, I still wish Falcons were dedicated transports. I'm just not sure I can face giving up the other HS options to take one. Really they just needed to spread our options out more, War Walkers and Falcons could easily be elsewhere :(

You going back to 2nd edition codex on the Dedicated Falcon?

jbunny wrote:

 shamikebab wrote:
Good call, I still wish Falcons were dedicated transports. I'm just not sure I can face giving up the other HS options to take one. Really they just needed to spread our options out more, War Walkers and Falcons could easily be elsewhere :(

You going back to 2nd edition codex on the Dedicated Falcon?

That was actually when I started playing

It just makes sense to me, I don't see any reason why Razorback can be dedicated and Falcons can't. Even tone them down slightly and reduce their points cost if you have to. They don't really feel like a Heavy Support choice, if anything they should be Fast Attack (getting a unit as quickly as possible to where they need to go)

I agree. i started in 3rd, and knew they were not DT's then. But a lot of Eldar should be fast. The heavy slot is way too full.

Just wondering if anyone thinks this is a good setup for an autarch.
Autarch 70
Jetbike 15
Laser lance 10
Fusion gun 10
Mantle of the laughing god 40
Total: 145
This gives him Stealth, Shrouded, Hit and Run, and reroll to cover saves for the cost of his independent character trait. However, You can turbo-boost, get a 2++ cover save because of the stealth+Shrouded+cover save from turbo boosting. Then you can hit and run with the laser lance or hit vehicles with the fusion gun. Any thoughts?

 shamikebab wrote:

jbunny wrote:

 shamikebab wrote:
Good call, I still wish Falcons were dedicated transports. I'm just not sure I can face giving up the other HS options to take one. Really they just needed to spread our options out more, War Walkers and Falcons could easily be elsewhere :(

You going back to 2nd edition codex on the Dedicated Falcon?

That was actually when I started playing

It just makes sense to me, I don't see any reason why Razorback can be dedicated and Falcons can't. Even tone them down slightly and reduce their points cost if you have to. They don't really feel like a Heavy Support choice, if anything they should be Fast Attack (getting a unit as quickly as possible to where they need to go)

We all remember the Falcon's humble beginnings, right? Back when it was the vehicle to take: (note: NOT my model)


Before this codex was released, I was thinking both of those options would have been a good idea. But, as they have Vypers and both flyer models for fast attack vehicles now, that is nice that you can take Falcons alongside them if you want. They'll never be an all-star like their Fire-Prism cousins, but they at least have more of a place now. Heck, you can run a nice, varied load-out across heavy/fast if you want:

1x Falcon
1x Fire Prism
1x Nightspinner
1x Crimson Hunter
1x Hemlock Wraithfighter
1x Vyper Squadron

This would give you lots of options and probably be quite effective, as your anti troop/vehicle/air is pretty well rounded, and no one can call spamming since they are all unique. That would be a fun basis for an army, actually.

 Aleph-Sama wrote:

Also, is it just me, or does the Crimson Hunter look like Latias from Pokemon?!

It's not just you, it's an awesome model though, and it's insanely strong


Also, the new mind war is quite good against tyranids(Had my 130pt farseer tie up a 240pt trygon prime yesterday lol)

 evildrspock wrote:
Edit: Clearly the Crimson Hunter does it better (albeit the Hunter will snap-shot land dwelling vehicles) because of it Skyhunter, but the Falcon still got better. It is a versatile unit that while not having as many bells and whistles up front can provide some very useful tactics.

Why is that? I thought flyers chose Skyfire or no Skyfire at the beginning of each shooting phase.

 MandalorynOranj wrote:

 evildrspock wrote:
Edit: Clearly the Crimson Hunter does it better (albeit the Hunter will snap-shot land dwelling vehicles) because of it Skyhunter, but the Falcon still got better. It is a versatile unit that while not having as many bells and whistles up front can provide some very useful tactics.

Why is that? I thought flyers chose Skyfire or no Skyfire at the beginning of each shooting phase.

It has sense been clarified that I was mistaken; I only read the Skyfire rule when I posted that, not the flyer rules. The skyhunter IS better, but Falcon can still at least reliably get twin-linked Pulse Laser fire.

I think this works:

Falcons say they can exchange a shuriken cannon for one of x weapons. Well it can also take an underslung shuriken cannon. By the wording, it never specifies turret cannon. Therefore, can it exchange both cannons for other weapons? Underslung brightlance please?

 zephoid wrote:
I think this works:

Falcons say they can exchange a shuriken cannon for one of x weapons. Well it can also take an underslung shuriken cannon. By the wording, it never specifies turret cannon. Therefore, can it exchange both cannons for other weapons? Underslung brightlance please?

Negative ghostrider.

The catapault can only be exchanged for the Shuriken Cannon.

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:
So has anybody figured out how we are going to deal with lists that contain 2 flyers and an ADL?

Mebbe I'm missing something...but that ADL can tear our flyers a new one...leaving us with Warwalkers and Dark Reapers as AA with no interceptor(good luck keeping Dark Reapers alive against Baleflames...).

Ya you are missing something. The fact that you can destroy that quad gun T1 or put a huge model up close to it....aka the WK. Btw...the suncannon being used on the quad can be deadly as well in terms of forcing your opponent to go to ground since there will be units hugging it and a little bit of scatter goes a long way . I also don't see many lists having an ADL AND 2 flyers unless your Badsheep in the dakka bat reps. People generally have one or the other.

For the 2 fliers, you already know how to take them down.

Big Question....

How good is Wraithseer with this Codex?

Is that rhetorical?

Puscifer wrote:
Big Question....

How good is Wraithseer with this Codex?

We talking FW wraithseer or the mistranslated german Spiritseer?

GTKA666 wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

GTKA666 wrote:
You can still move 2d6 in the assault phase if you haven't used your jump pack.

No you can't.

....>.>..... I don't own the BRB, but I am positive that jump units can move in the assault phase....or is their only benefit to being jump the reroll failed jump into assault?

That'd be your problem then.

I think a major player in some anti-air firepower could be the Waveserpent.

Hear me out.

We all know how great this transport is now. It is a little more expensive but it has a more lethal payload as well as way better defense. It is truly a TANK which happens to carry troops. It is an amazing tool for any Eldar army because of the volume of fire it can now throw out reliably.... if you upgrade to a TL scatter laser.

Scatter Laser is twin linked on a Waveserpent. If it hits, then the shuriken cannon will be twin linked...AND the d6+1 shots from the shield (if you're not using it defensively). That is 9-14 shots of which 7 are STR 6, and d6+1 are strength 7... IGNORES COVER.

Yes it is a bit of a gamble, as the d6+1 shield roll could flub out, as could your snapshots... but with twin linked everything (most likely), and some jink ignoring shots... this vehicle becomes another useful tool to eliminate flyers, especially if coupled with war walkers or even the crimson hunter.

I think a lot of the key to Anti-Air with the Eldar could be in having several tools on the board (WS, war walkers, dark reaper exarch, etc...) who all could deal damage to flyers, plus our super nasty crimson hunter (yes, I know for much of the internet the jury is still out, but I'm a quick supporter). This isn't even bringing up the fact that the Eldar have gotten MORE mobile than before so we can more easily mitigate the flyers damage potential.

I played a battle versus Cron Air over the weekend and found that the combination of 3 crimson hunters, and a couple wave serpents were more than enough to bring down all of the flyers over a few turns. Once you start getting air superiority on cron air, things fall apart quickly, as I tabled my opponent in 5 turns. Not to shabby, considering I played against the same list a few weeks back and found the results starkly the opposite.

Obviously there are hours of playtesting due before we really know what items in this book shine, but I feel that Phil Kelly did a great job at giving us a toolbox full of special tools, and it is our job to create the perfect weapon. Very Eldar feeling. I love it.

I agree with the WS. It is a bit of a gamble but your already allowed 2 jink ignoring tl shots (assuming the SL hits). I don't think having 3 Crimsons are needed for cron air though and is probably overkill. Why don't you try out with 2 or even one flier and see what you get (for purpose of FOC flexibility).

Were your Hunters Exarchs or regular Crimsons?

You also forgot Warp Spiders and their weapons able to glance a storm talon to death.

I think the Crimson Hunter really needs an Autarch on the battlefield to help delay its arrival. That means you have chance to take out any units with Interceptor and also means that, hopefully, your enemies flyers will come on first.

I think I'm taking a Crimson Hunter and my opponent has a flyer, for like the first time ever, I think I'd choose to go second.

GTKA666 wrote:
You also forgot Warp Spiders and their weapons able to glance a storm talon to death.

I have not forgot them and have 3 squads ready and willing.

GTKA666 wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
Big Question....

How good is Wraithseer with this Codex?

We talking FW wraithseer or the mistranslated german Spiritseer?

The FW one. I don't know if it's any good with the new codex.

GTKA666 wrote:
I agree with the WS. It is a bit of a gamble but your already allowed 2 jink ignoring tl shots (assuming the SL hits). I don't think having 3 Crimsons are needed for cron air though and is probably overkill. Why don't you try out with 2 or even one flier and see what you get (for purpose of FOC flexibility).

Were your Hunters Exarchs or regular Crimsons?

You also forgot Warp Spiders and their weapons able to glance a storm talon to death.

I did not use the exarch upgrade. Didn't have the points.

I never forget warp spiders, I love them. I always have. I just haven't used them yet, as I wanted to try out the Hunters.

As far as the autarch comment from the shadow... I had an autarch as my HQ. so I was able to get them to come in at the right moment.

I always ran 2 MSU Jetbike squads w/ SCannons but now I think I might do max Jetbikes + Warlock for the following reasons:

1. JBikes are cheaper
2. Warlocks are slightly cheaper
3. They waste a lot of board space to give intervening cover to guys behind them.
4. They waste a lot of board space to give prevent frontal assaults on backfield objective holders if need be.
5A. Roll hot; get Protect and the unit is 2+ armor.
5Asub1. Frustrate Hellturkeys.
5B. Roll normal, get some other thing and switch it to Conceal for 2+ jink , still pretty good, expecially on cheaper JBikes
6. ...most importantly; because JBikes!

Can anyone tell me how viable a wraith army (spiritseer with wraithguard/blades as troops) is at the moment? Though given the current rumors, perhaps I should wait for the Iyanden sub-codex..?

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Can anyone tell me how viable a wraith army (spiritseer with wraithguard/blades as troops) is at the moment? Though given the current rumors, perhaps I should wait for the Iyanden sub-codex..?

quite viable. Look at my thread here, it is specific to it. Tactics

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Can anyone tell me how viable a wraith army (spiritseer with wraithguard/blades as troops) is at the moment? Though given the current rumors, perhaps I should wait for the Iyanden sub-codex..?

Yeah, we discussed a few points earlier in this thread debating Dragons v WG. Super excited to try these out on the table.

Just working on moving them to the 40mm bases atm.

 Uriels_Flame wrote:

The catapault can only be exchanged for the Shuriken Cannon.

And then you upgrade that Shuriken Cannon into a Brightlance. Why not?

toocool61 wrote:
Just wondering if anyone thinks this is a good setup for an autarch.
Autarch 70
Jetbike 15
Laser lance 10
Fusion gun 10
Mantle of the laughing god 40
Total: 145
This gives him Stealth, Shrouded, Hit and Run, and reroll to cover saves for the cost of his independent character trait. However, You can turbo-boost, get a 2++ cover save because of the stealth+Shrouded+cover save from turbo boosting. Then you can hit and run with the laser lance or hit vehicles with the fusion gun. Any thoughts?

First off you get Stealth and Shrouded so you don't need to Turbo to get the 2+ cover. 5+ Jink +2 Shrouded +1 Stealth =2+. And my personal favorite load out for the Laughing Jetarch as I call him/her is:
Autarch - 70
Jetbike - 15
Banshee Mask - 5
Mantle of the Laughing God - 40
Power Weapon - 15
Laser Lance - 10
and maybe the Phoenix Gem - 25

So 155-180 points. His main utility will be to obliterate vehicles and small units while managing reserves. I can see him in a list with the following:

1x Laughing Jetarch 180
2x Hemlock Wraith Fighters 370(185 x2)
1x Crimson Hunter Exarch w/ Star Cannons 180
5x Windrider Jetbike 85
5x Windrider Jetbike 85
2x Warlocks w/ Jetbikes 100 (50 x2)
Total 1000 Points


Further more whats with all the Howling Banshee Hate? At 15 Points a model you get 2(3 on a charge) S3 Power Weapon Attacks! If you are stuck on them not having grenades, keep this in mind: You should probably position yourself better. And if its a unit that's always sitting in cover, it probably a) sucks in cc and b) has a low enough initiative that -5 will at least guarantee you swing at the same time. Personally I think they are great and would be possibly broken if we had an Assault Transport.

 Crimson wrote:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:

The catapault can only be exchanged for the Shuriken Cannon.

And then you upgrade that Shuriken Cannon into a Brightlance. Why not?

it says you can upgrade the Twin Linked Shuriken Cannon, not any shuriken cannon. If you upgrade the TL shuriken catapult to a shuriken cannon it is not twin linked.

 Gangrel767 wrote:

it says you can upgrade the Twin Linked Shuriken Cannon, not any shuriken cannon. If you upgrade the TL shuriken catapult to a shuriken cannon it is not twin linked.

Falcon, not Wave Serpent. Falcon has upgrades for non-TL Shuriken Cannon.

 Crimson wrote:

 Gangrel767 wrote:

it says you can upgrade the Twin Linked Shuriken Cannon, not any shuriken cannon. If you upgrade the TL shuriken catapult to a shuriken cannon it is not twin linked.

Falcon, not Wave Serpent. Falcon has upgrades for non-TL Shuriken Cannon.

I guess we have a RAI v RAW thing here. I suspect that they do not intend for you to upgrade the chin cannon... but if your group allows it, Go for it.

 CaptKaruthors wrote:

They already have Slow and Purposeful, what does Relentless offer over that? (I genuinely can't remember!)

It will allow them to run, and also to assault after shooting.

It won't do either of these things, because they are already Slow and Purposeful. Making them Relentless as well won't remove the S&P prohibition on running, and being S&P they can already assault after firing heavy weapons. Gifting Relentless to a Slow and Purposeful model does absolutely nothing.

Chrysis wrote:

 CaptKaruthors wrote:

They already have Slow and Purposeful, what does Relentless offer over that? (I genuinely can't remember!)

It will allow them to run, and also to assault after shooting.

It won't do either of these things, because they are already Slow and Purposeful. Making them Relentless as well won't remove the S&P prohibition on running, and being S&P they can already assault after firing heavy weapons. Gifting Relentless to a Slow and Purposeful model does absolutely nothing.

Plus relentless does not confer to the unit.

 Crimson wrote:

 Gangrel767 wrote:

it says you can upgrade the Twin Linked Shuriken Cannon, not any shuriken cannon. If you upgrade the TL shuriken catapult to a shuriken cannon it is not twin linked.

Falcon, not Wave Serpent. Falcon has upgrades for non-TL Shuriken Cannon.

True, and I see what you're trying to say. Sounds like either a poorly worded lapse (which we know they're prone to), or we could have PL/BL/SL Falcons....

But I'll let YMDC decide that wording out.

 Gangrel767 wrote:

Chrysis wrote:

 CaptKaruthors wrote:

They already have Slow and Purposeful, what does Relentless offer over that? (I genuinely can't remember!)

It will allow them to run, and also to assault after shooting.

It won't do either of these things, because they are already Slow and Purposeful. Making them Relentless as well won't remove the S&P prohibition on running, and being S&P they can already assault after firing heavy weapons. Gifting Relentless to a Slow and Purposeful model does absolutely nothing.

Plus relentless does not confer to the unit.

Another excellent point for this case.

But S&P does. So a relentless model in a unit with even 1 S&P model suddenly loses the ability to run or Overwatch.

Would guardians be t5 3+ save because of the platform or am I wrong on the artillery rules? If so would they be good manning a quad gun with warlock for a better cover save?

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
, I'm making Eldar allies just to bring him. Because YES.

Sounds like a lot of points for Heldrake food.

i'd be more worried about Riptides.

Big tournament here over the weekend and my friend played 3 tau players out of 3 games with a grand total of 7 riptides.

Uzumati wrote:
Would guardians be t5 3+ save because of the platform or am I wrong on the artillery rules? If so would they be good manning a quad gun with warlock for a better cover save?

In a Vaul's Wrath Battery, yes. In a Guardian Defenders Squad, No, because their weapon platform doesn't use the Artillery rules.

Just a little food for thought. WW with SL and SC scores the same number of hits in a round as 2x SL due to the twin linkage. Ranges don't match up as nicely, but something to think about especially if your army plans to have your WW a little more forward (maybe to support a WG/Avatar line or some such.

The shadowseer / Maugan Ra combo is back?

The invisible cannon that you can't target?

That moves too quick to run down?

Groovy

Puscifer wrote:
Big Question....

How good is Wraithseer with this Codex?

I think you're going to be harder pressed to fit it in as easily, unless you're only running it in support of one wraith unit. Then, it's a pricey synergy unit if you're taking the D-cannon at 225 points. That said, T6 Axe Wraithblades with T6, 3+/4++ and a 4+ FNP are going to be very tough to remove. Instead of using Deliverance, keep an Embolden/Horrify warlock nearby and force Pinning tests at -5 Ld with Foreboding. In a dedicated wraith list, I think you'll see a Spiritseer to make them Troops and either a Phoenix Lord, Farseer, or Eldrad.

Unfortunately, all the point values for IA11 reflect the 4th edition rules and so will be at a premium. I've been running corsair allies alongside my wraith list for the last 8 months and now I'm looking at completely rearranging that setup. Taking a Corsair Prince allowed a squad of wraithguard to deepstrike and now that can be more reliably done with Illic's Infiltration ability. While they lose the former spiritseer's Conceal for a 5+ cover save, they gain Shrouded from Illic. With the Crimson Hunter available, Nightwings have lost some of their appeal other than their 145 price tag for 2 S8 lances and 6 S6 Shuricannons. Mine has served me well, but I might be taking the cannons off and slapping a Pulse Laser to the undercarriage to count-as a Hunter.

Until FW gets around to an errata for IA11 to reflect the codex updates, I'm going to be wary of combining the two.

Anyone thought of using Illic with a battery of D-Cannons?

He could infiltrate them forward so that they establish board control early in the game and, with his split fire special rule, could engage multiple targets at once - or he could support other forces across the board with his sniper rifle while the battery bombards nearby targets.

 warpspider89 wrote:
Anyone thought of using Illic with a battery of D-Cannons?

He could infiltrate them forward so that they establish board control early in the game and, with his split fire special rule, could engage multiple targets at once - or he could support other forces across the board with his sniper rifle while the battery bombards nearby targets.

I have, but after going over Illic's ability it has been assumed that the power works for illic alone.

Speaking of Illic, what are people's general thoughts on him?

For me, despite all the cool rules, I'm not convinced he's actually that good. Sharpshot is pretty awesome, as is the ability to upgrade Rangers to Pathfinders, but I find having to buy Illic for 140 points first is undesirable. Illic's rifle is still only a sniper, so it's wounding on a 4+. Not bad, but not great either. Also, I feel the "Infiltrate anywhere" Special Rule, isn't that good. It would be awesome, but Illic, and any Rangers/Pathfinders that accompany him, are firing 36" (48" in Illic's case) Heavy Weapons. They're also pretty bad in combat. They don't want to be close to the enemy.

Also, this new book has got me confused about Precision Shots. I don't have my rulebook on my and won't until Friday. Can someone explain how it works and what weapons it applies to? After playing Orks for all of 6th Edition, I think you can safely say I haven't used it much.

I am looking at adding the following to my eldar army:

Spirit seer

Autarch on jetbike

10-20 Wraithguard/Blades (do I need Wraithblades? I was thinking 10 Guard with cannons, 5 with scythes and 5 Blades with axes/forceshields)

Wraithknight or 2nd Wraithlord (probably the Lord)

1-2 Crimson Hunters

5 more Dark Reapers

6 Swooping Hawks

12 Striking Scorpions

 shamikebab wrote:

 evildrspock wrote:

One thing I was just thinking of is taking a unit of 3 Vypers, one with a Scatterlaser, the rest with Shuriken Cannons, and all underslung Shuriken Cannons (war walkers can do this too, but I prefer Vypers because of Jink). Against any normal target, you are very likely to get one Scatterlaser hit, then ... 15 TL bs4 s6 shots with Bladestorm. There are lots of fun ways to approach anti-infantry or anti-tank. Laser lock is such a cool rule.

No! Laser lock is for the model not the unit, only the one with the Scatter Laser would get twin linked.

Right. So you can field the combo scatter laser and shuricannon on single models, like Vypers, Warwalkers, Serpents, and Falcons. But make sure to get into range. This is easier with the grave tanks than with the Warwalkers.

 rohansoldier wrote:
I am looking at adding the following to my eldar army:
Spirit seer
Autarch on jetbike
10-20 Wraithguard/Blades (do I need Wraithblades? I was thinking 10 Guard with cannons, 5 with scythes and 5 Blades with axes/forceshields)
Wraithknight or 2nd Wraithlord (probably the Lord)
1-2 Crimson Hunters
5 more Dark Reapers
6 Swooping Hawks
12 Striking Scorpions

I'm not sure on wraithblades yet - they look awesome and I want to paint 5 in fire dragon colours (with axes) as a bodyguard for Fuegan - but they need to footslog to be effective, as we still have the same melee problems as before (no assault transports).

I'm thinking d-scythes - out of a wave serpent, will be lethal. Put 5 templates down, then try to invite a charge.
Wraithblades are cool - I'd just buy them last

Overwatch seems overrated. Don't people send in mooks first to suck it up before charging with whatever will eat the Wraithguard in close combat?

I only seem to play against marines - they don't have meatshields round our way

Marines shouldn't ever charge them IMO. Unless they're termies with th/ss. And even then, only maybe...

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
Overwatch seems overrated. Don't people send in mooks first to suck it up before charging with whatever will eat the Wraithguard in close combat?

Only if they have mooks available. Some armies do not have expendable soldiers.

I am thinking 10 Wraithblades with axes and forceshields plus a spirit seer is one hell of an objective holder. Just plonk them on it and dare your enemy to try and take it off you. Especially if you get conceal and protect on the seer!

3+ cover save + 2+ armour + 4+ invulnerable + T6 + Fearless = one unit that is going nowhere!

How many wounds each? 1 or 2?

Only one wound each.

I'd either keep a farseer near and try for fortune or you can add a Wraithseer and it gets better - 4+ fnp, and at T6 even st10 weapons can't take fnp off you

Am I the only person giddy with excitement at the thought of playing a 2500 point game for Eldar with two force orgs to make use of those amazing Fast Attack and Heavy slots? LoL

FA and Heavy are so hard to choose, you almost have to make your choices there first and then build a list around it for complimenting abilities.

 The Shadow wrote:
Speaking of Illic, what are people's general thoughts on him?

For me, despite all the cool rules, I'm not convinced he's actually that good. Sharpshot is pretty awesome, as is the ability to upgrade Rangers to Pathfinders, but I find having to buy Illic for 140 points first is undesirable. Illic's rifle is still only a sniper, so it's wounding on a 4+. Not bad, but not great either. Also, I feel the "Infiltrate anywhere" Special Rule, isn't that good. It would be awesome, but Illic, and any Rangers/Pathfinders that accompany him, are firing 36" (48" in Illic's case) Heavy Weapons. They're also pretty bad in combat. They don't want to be close to the enemy.

Also, this new book has got me confused about Precision Shots. I don't have my rulebook on my and won't until Friday. Can someone explain how it works and what weapons it applies to? After playing Orks for all of 6th Edition, I think you can safely say I haven't used it much.

As far as I can tell, Illic is garbage. Because of how Infiltrate and the deployment are worded he can't bring along a squad that doesn't have Infiltrate. The wording of his "deploy anywhere" rule suggests it only applies to him, not an attached squad, so no sneaking Scorpions closer to the front, and you obviously don't want him close up. His sniper may be AP2 and Distort, but it's still only wounding half the time. It seems like anything you want him to do could be better done by the same points worth of Rangers. Definitely regretting that purchase.

 rohansoldier wrote:
I am thinking 10 Wraithblades with axes and forceshields plus a spirit seer is one hell of an objective holder. Just plonk them on it and dare your enemy to try and take it off you. Especially if you get conceal and protect on the seer!

3+ cover save + 2+ armour + 4+ invulnerable + T6 + Fearless = one unit that is going nowhere!

That or make them Wraithguard with D-scythes. Sure you lose the Invuln, but just DARE somebody to assault you.

 The Shadow wrote:
Speaking of Illic, what are people's general thoughts on him?
For me, despite all the cool rules, I'm not convinced he's actually that good. Sharpshot is pretty awesome, as is the ability to upgrade Rangers to Pathfinders, but I find having to buy Illic for 140 points first is undesirable. Illic's rifle is still only a sniper, so it's wounding on a 4+. Not bad, but not great either. Also, I feel the "Infiltrate anywhere" Special Rule, isn't that good. It would be awesome, but Illic, and any Rangers/Pathfinders that accompany him, are firing 36" (48" in Illic's case) Heavy Weapons. They're also pretty bad in combat. They don't want to be close to the enemy.

Not just Illic, but the Alaitoc Pathfinders are horrifically expensive too. And while they're much more resilient to normal fire, anything that ignores cover will absolutely ruin their day.
They are useful for one thing - to pick out units behind a single tough model in the front. Things like TDA Wolf Guard in Grey Hunters, Draigo with his extra wounds to spare, Corbulo with... er... anything. Having every single shot become Precision allows you to completely bypass these models without having Look Out Sir! interrupt you.

Also, this new book has got me confused about Precision Shots. I don't have my rulebook on my and won't until Friday. Can someone explain how it works and what weapons it applies to? After playing Orks for all of 6th Edition, I think you can safely say I haven't used it much.

Without quoting the whole thing verbatim, after all, this isn't a replacement for a rulebook... on a 6 you get to allocate your shots to who you want. Typically only snipers and characters get it.

 MandalorynOranj wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:
Speaking of Illic, what are people's general thoughts on him?

For me, despite all the cool rules, I'm not convinced he's actually that good. Sharpshot is pretty awesome, as is the ability to upgrade Rangers to Pathfinders, but I find having to buy Illic for 140 points first is undesirable. Illic's rifle is still only a sniper, so it's wounding on a 4+. Not bad, but not great either. Also, I feel the "Infiltrate anywhere" Special Rule, isn't that good. It would be awesome, but Illic, and any Rangers/Pathfinders that accompany him, are firing 36" (48" in Illic's case) Heavy Weapons. They're also pretty bad in combat. They don't want to be close to the enemy.

Also, this new book has got me confused about Precision Shots. I don't have my rulebook on my and won't until Friday. Can someone explain how it works and what weapons it applies to? After playing Orks for all of 6th Edition, I think you can safely say I haven't used it much.

As far as I can tell, Illic is garbage. Because of how Infiltrate and the deployment are worded he can't bring along a squad that doesn't have Infiltrate. The wording of his "deploy anywhere" rule suggests it only applies to him, not an attached squad, so no sneaking Scorpions closer to the front, and you obviously don't want him close up. His sniper may be AP2 and Distort, but it's still only wounding half the time. It seems like anything you want him to do could be better done by the same points worth of Rangers. Definitely regretting that purchase.

I completely agree. He'd be better if they gave him some sort of value for those 140 points, but they came up short. Aside from a FAQ to the already gimicky feel of the Infiltrate ability, giving him something like 'Fast Shot' or a Heavy 2-3 sniper rifle would have been much more flavorful.

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:

 MandalorynOranj wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:
Speaking of Illic, what are people's general thoughts on him?

For me, despite all the cool rules, I'm not convinced he's actually that good. Sharpshot is pretty awesome, as is the ability to upgrade Rangers to Pathfinders, but I find having to buy Illic for 140 points first is undesirable. Illic's rifle is still only a sniper, so it's wounding on a 4+. Not bad, but not great either. Also, I feel the "Infiltrate anywhere" Special Rule, isn't that good. It would be awesome, but Illic, and any Rangers/Pathfinders that accompany him, are firing 36" (48" in Illic's case) Heavy Weapons. They're also pretty bad in combat. They don't want to be close to the enemy.

Also, this new book has got me confused about Precision Shots. I don't have my rulebook on my and won't until Friday. Can someone explain how it works and what weapons it applies to? After playing Orks for all of 6th Edition, I think you can safely say I haven't used it much.

As far as I can tell, Illic is garbage. Because of how Infiltrate and the deployment are worded he can't bring along a squad that doesn't have Infiltrate. The wording of his "deploy anywhere" rule suggests it only applies to him, not an attached squad, so no sneaking Scorpions closer to the front, and you obviously don't want him close up. His sniper may be AP2 and Distort, but it's still only wounding half the time. It seems like anything you want him to do could be better done by the same points worth of Rangers. Definitely regretting that purchase.

I completely agree. He'd be better if they gave him some sort of value for those 140 points, but they came up short. Aside from a FAQ to the already gimicky feel of the Infiltrate ability, giving him something like 'Fast Shot' or a Heavy 2-3 sniper rifle would have been much more flavorful.

Or a rule like the Vindicaire where he doesn't allow Look Out, Sir!

Just some initial thoughts after playing a few test games with and against the new elder....

wave serpeants are the bomb. Horribly hard to kill with that convert pens into glances and 4+ cover in the open

Eldar farseers are really useful for buffs. Been liking a lot of the offensive powers. Execution for example took down quite a lot of guardsmen as well as threaten special characters that are squishy (i.e. IG special weapons/characters due to horrible saves) With laser lock, a lot of stuff does not need guide. A mechdar force is pretty tough and fairly self sufficient.

The wraith knight really has been kind of lacking. Even the shooting version has been less than impressed with especially when most people just has been ignoring it.

Ignore cover really kind of suck to fight against as elder.

Warwalkers are still really nice since you can battlefocus with fleet to get out of return fire and they have some pretty mean guns.

Avatar seems ok on paper but was kind of lacking on the board again. I'd rather take farseer warlocks.

The crimson hunter was pretty good with vector dancer and fragged some AV14 pretty easily but was glanced to death as kind of expected.

Waiting to try some more games vs and with dark reapers/warp spiders/swooping hawks to try.

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:

That or make them Wraithguard with D-scythes. Sure you lose the Invuln, but just DARE somebody to assault you.

Oh no, I'll lose 5 Termagants, Boyz, or Daemonettes charging in. In exchange, your unit is effectively dead.

10 D.Scythes give 20 hits from overwatch on average....

 sudojoe wrote:
Just some initial thoughts after playing a few test games with and against the new elder....

wave serpents are the bomb. Horribly hard to kill with that convert pens into glances and 4+ cover in the open

Two things here - how did you have yours equipped? I'm actually considering TL Bright Lances for mine, though the more oft TL SL is standard at this time.

Did you use the extra shield shots to any effect?

GTKA666 wrote:

 warpspider89 wrote:
Anyone thought of using Illic with a battery of D-Cannons?

He could infiltrate them forward so that they establish board control early in the game and, with his split fire special rule, could engage multiple targets at once - or he could support other forces across the board with his sniper rifle while the battery bombards nearby targets.

I have, but after going over Illic's ability it has been assumed that the power works for illic alone.

How did you come to that conclusion?

His warlord trait states that he has split fire. The BRB pg. 42 states that if a unit has one model that contains this special rule then that unit can take a leadership test that, if passed, will allow a single model within that unit to fire at a different unit than the unit that the rest of the unit is firing at.

In no way does that state that the model within the unit with split fire has to be Illic.

Everyone is complaining that Banshees don't have Grenades, to you I say stop whining, your Saviour is at hand! Ally with a Dark Eldar Archon with a phantasm grenade launcher and suit all your offensive and defensive grenade needs, as well as having a great beat stick from the Archon himself.

 warpspider89 wrote:

GTKA666 wrote:

 warpspider89 wrote:
Anyone thought of using Illic with a battery of D-Cannons?

He could infiltrate them forward so that they establish board control early in the game and, with his split fire special rule, could engage multiple targets at once - or he could support other forces across the board with his sniper rifle while the battery bombards nearby targets.

I have, but after going over Illic's ability it has been assumed that the power works for illic alone.

How did you come to that conclusion?

His warlord trait states that he has split fire. The BRB pg. 42 states that if a unit has one model that contains this special rule then that unit can take a leadership test that, if passed, will allow a single model within that unit to fire at a different unit than the unit that the rest of the unit is firing at.

In no way does that state that the model within the unit with split fire has to be Illic.

I am sorry I just read "he could infiltrate and just assumed it was another "hey lets have this unit pop up in their face" kinda thing. Apologies your statement was correct.

Guys, unless you're Shrike, HQs don't confer infiltrate. At best they confer outflank. Because of how HQs attach to units (Either in reserve or after they deploy) you miss the chance to actually infiltrate unless both the Unit and HQ already have it.
Now Im confused. Looking up quotes to verify this, please ignore.


As for Illic's special rule, it grants him the Infiltrate USR which does allow for Outflank with whoever he's attached to. Everything else is Illic only though.

S.K.Ren wrote:
Guys, unless you're Shrike, HQs don't confer infiltrate. At best they confer outflank. Because of how HQs attach to units (Either in reserve or after they deploy) you miss the chance to actually infiltrate unless both the Unit and HQ already have it.
Now Im confused. Looking up quotes to verify this, please ignore.


As for Illic's special rule, it grants him the Infiltrate USR which does allow for Outflank with whoever he's attached to. Everything else is Illic only though.

he can also infiltrate with other infiltrating units, just they have to follow the restrictions of infiltrating.

As per the BRB pg. 38 - any unit that contains at least one model with the Infiltrate USR may...

Found it
BRB Pg 39, emphasis mine

Joining and Leaving a Unit
An Independent Character can begin the game already with a unit,
either by being deployed in unit coherency with it or, if the unit is in
reserve, by informing your opponent of which unit it has joined.

In order for them to deploy in coherency and infiltrate, they would have to both have infiltrate since the IC joins after deployment.

GTKA666 wrote:he can also infiltrate with other infiltrating units, just they have to follow the restrictions of infiltrating.

Yeah, but I didn't think there was any question of that. I was just trying to diffuse the question of whether Illic's Walker of the Hidden Path conferred anything to another unit (which is does, Infiltrate.)

S.K.Ren wrote:
Joining and Leaving a Unit
An Independent Character can begin the game already with a unit,
either by being deployed in unit coherency with it or, if the unit is in
reserve, by informing your opponent of which unit it has joined.

In order for them to deploy in coherency and infiltrate, they would have to both have infiltrate since the IC joins after deployment.
[/quote

It says that the IC begins the game with a unit, which means that the IC has not joined after deployment. The unit would, as such, not need to have infiltrate. The unit would just need to be within coherency with Illic, which is an entirely normal requirement for any unit.

Alright guys, I bought 3 boxes of Wraithguards. Turned 5 of them into magnetised scythes/cannons

but for the next 10 I don't think the magnets will work out well due to how heavy their weapons are.

So Axes or Swords..?

 warpspider89 wrote:

S.K.Ren wrote:
Joining and Leaving a Unit
An Independent Character can begin the game already with a unit,
either by being deployed in unit coherency with it or, if the unit is in
reserve, by informing your opponent of which unit it has joined.

In order for them to deploy in coherency and infiltrate, they would have to both have infiltrate since the IC joins after deployment.
[/quote

It says that the IC begins the game with a unit, which means that the IC has not joined after deployment. The unit would, as such, not need to have infiltrate. The unit would just need to be within coherency with Illic, which is an entirely normal requirement for any unit.

That would be true if it wasn't for the second half of the sentence, and the critical wording of "by" making that deployed in coherency thing a requirement for beginning the game as a unit. You don't start the game with them as a unit, then deploy them in coherency. You deploy them in coherency, following each part's respective rules for doing so, and this allows them to become a unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jacob29 wrote:
Alright guys, I bought 3 boxes of Wraithguards. Turned 5 of them into magnetised scythes/cannons

but for the next 10 I don't think the magnets will work out well due to how heavy their weapons are.

So Axes or Swords..?

How easy or hard was that magnet job? I'm planning on doing the same myself once they come in.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jacob29 wrote:
Alright guys, I bought 3 boxes of Wraithguards. Turned 5 of them into magnetised scythes/cannons

but for the next 10 I don't think the magnets will work out well due to how heavy their weapons are.

So Axes or Swords..?

How easy or hard was that magnet job? I'm planning on doing the same myself once they come in.