I write this as a plee to all Eldar players, please buy this book. Buy it so GW are convinced it is worth releasing more, then, and only then may we have Genestealer Cults....
On the other hand I'm glad that they didn't make any restrictions apart the spiritseer needing to swap that one power, as it gives greater flexibility in army creation; on the other hand it makes this just a blatant powerup. There is no reason ever to not use these additional rules. Even if you would not have a single wraith in your army you'd want to use these rules to give you access to the extra wargear and the alternative warlord table.
Crimson wrote: On the other hand I'm glad that they didn't make any restrictions apart the spiritseer needing to swap that one power, as it gives greater flexibility in army creation; on the other hand it makes this just a blatant powerup. There is no reason ever to not use these additional rules. Even if you would not have a single wraith in your army you'd want to use these rules to give you access to the extra wargear and the alternative warlord table.
It its true that the only downside to these rules is the loss of Conceal then yeah, I agree, its basically the Space Marine trait system all over again. Even as an Eldar player this seems a bit too much, you get a whole heap of buffs (Soulshrive on a Laughing God Jetarch? yes please) for what was looking like a pretty solid build (i.e Wraith based) to start with and functionally no downsides. I'm really hoping there are some limitations on units in there somewhere with an alternative army list (less Aspects, Guardians etc), but even if there are this looks like a big boost to Wraith armies.
Xeriapt wrote: So the rules included are essentially the stuff half glimpsed in the video?
Was kinda hoping for at least a special character or something.
The video showed "Iyanna Arienal, Angel of Iyanden". I would have thought she was a/the Iyanden special character with rules.
I guess, alternatively, you could give a Spiritseer the "Spear of Teuthlas" item and treat them as Iyanna. If they go through with this "Special Character = Super Item" motif for the rest of the codecies, it'll be much more interesting than having some bloke named "Eldrad" or "Vulkan" in every battle ever. Replace special characters with super-items.
Eldercaveman wrote: I write this as a plee to all Eldar players, please buy this book. Buy it so GW are convinced it is worth releasing more, then, and only then may we have Genestealer Cults....
So how do you make a Genestealer Cult supplement? Would it be a warlord trait table and 1 new psychic power for Codex: IG or a warlord table and 1 new psychic power for Codex: Tyranids?
Eldercaveman wrote: I write this as a plee to all Eldar players, please buy this book. Buy it so GW are convinced it is worth releasing more, then, and only then may we have Genestealer Cults....
So how do you make a Genestealer Cult supplement? Would it be a warlord trait table and 1 new psychic power for Codex: IG or a warlord table and 1 new psychic power for Codex: Tyranids?
I'd have it as a supplement to a nid codex, but that is another topic for another day.
So realistically, there's nothing keeping people from say making a Biel-Tan style army and just using the rules from this book? You could pretty easily start adding Spiritseers to Aspect units then-- I know none of them would like furious charge or +1 armour save. The sad part is for a jetbike-based army, I almost have to consider using this list because of the Shining Spear item. But I'm not paying that much money for a book to use one entry, so I'll go without or borrow a buddy's book enough to get the statline for it.
I don't know how to think about the idea of not changing anything outside of character/HQ stuff (lumping Wraith warlord in here) On the one hand, you could already get Wraith-themed units into every slot except Troops/Elites (depending on if you took a Spiritseer or not) so I guess there's no much possible to do with org manipulation beside push wraithlords into elite, which only makes them worse in that they will never score. On the other hand, this list is still so wide open that someone could figure out some sort of synergy with another style of list (heavy jetbike or aspects, for instance) and then start using it with that while ignoring wraith units entirely. The supplement seems to be an attempt at doing things the warmachine way (i.e. changes to the HQ pushes down through to the troops) but it doesn't grasp why that works in that game-- without specific buffs to certain types of units (or hell, just extra points when you take those unit types solely) the entire attempt to channel people towards more wraith units (instead of Codex: Eldar with better items and traits) is going to fall on deaf ears.
Puscifer wrote: First off... Yes you can take a BielTanesque force and use the stuff in the Iyanden book.
As for Aspects not wanting +1 save or furious charge, Reapers, Dragons and Scorpions gain greatly from +1 save. Scorpions like both.
Also... The traits and wargear are a lot better in the Iyanden book.
Sorry, I was being sarcastic-- damn near every aspect would do well with warlock style buffs, even if they all gain no benefit from the battle focus half of the primaris power. The fact that you can turn the Iyanden book into an Aspect army (or that it's just Eldar++) is incredibly annoying and a bit stupid.
Oaka wrote: 4 units of Wraiths in Waveserpents led by Spiritseers and a Wraithknight Warlord sounds like a pretty solid list.
High toughness, good saves, AP2 flamers and S10 weaponry makes it seem solid. Suffers from an extremely low model count, doesn't do close combat to any meaningful degree, and will get demolished by the top lists with flyers ten times out of ten.
Hmm, information on the Wraithforge Stone is out: Each friendly movement phase, restore a Wound to a single Wraithlord or Wraithknight within 6" on a roll of 3+.
Park a Wraithknight with somebody to heal it, and maybe have a Warlock handy with the Renewal power to heal and you could potentially heal 2 Wounds/turn. Arm the Wraithknight with suncannon and scattershield for additional survivability.
If said Wraithknight is also Warlord, with the Iyanden traits, then it could potentially get D3 re-rolls, or re-roll saves until 1st failed, for yet more survivability.
The other interesting bit is that with the Celestial Lance fluff entry, we have information that allows creation of rules for Drastanta, the now confirmed canonical Shining Spears Phoenix Lord based on what is known about the Lance and the Shining Spear Exarch powers.
Voice of Twilight - replaces Conceal as the Primaris
Blessing. Warp Charge 2.
Gives ALL Wraith BATTLE FOCUS AND FURIOUS CHARGE in a 12" bubble.
Warlord Traits:
1) Roll a D3 - Warlord gets this many rerolls for To Hit, To Wound, Armour Pen and Saves.
2) All friendly units FNP 6+ within 12".
3) Warlord and unit - Hatred.
4) Spirit Mark up to two enemy units per turn.
5) +1 to Deny The Witch.
6) Warlord ReRolls all failed armour saves. If he loses a wound, he loses this trait.
Gifts of Asuryan
Celestial Lance
It's a lance like the Shining Spears get with AP2 and Str 8 when shooting. Has Spirit Shatter: if you kill a Character or MC put a large blast where it died. Str is equal to the dead things toughness. AP -
Soulshrive
AP 2 Master Crafted Melee weapon with STR 3* and Spiritstealer - add one to the strength of the weapon for each unsaved wound made.
Wraithforge Stone
During the Movement Phase, nominate a single Wraithlord or Wraithknight and roll a D6. 1 or 2, nothing happens. 3+ it regains a wound suffered earlier in the battle.
Guardian Helm of Xellethon
Auto Pass Look Out Sir when in WG or WB units. WG and WB in this unit can make and accept challenges.
Spear of Teuthlas - Psyker Only.
Singing Spear, Str 9 at range. Has Rending, Armourbane and Fleshbane.
Heroes of Iyanden.
A Wraithlord or Wraithknight may be the Warlord.
If you're not always running book missions, there's Cities of Death and Planetstrike stratagems, 5 Echoes of War missions (specific army choices), and 3 Altar of War missions (roll off like book missions, Eldar vs anyone).
Frgt/10 over at Warseer wrote:Just picked it up on my ipad; here are the main bits:
No rules for Iyanna. But...(see below)
Edit: ok the above isn't strictly true; there are two scenarios you can use her in. She's just a free upgrade to a spiritseer and gives you ML3. Can't use her in regular games.
Voice of Twilight: WC2
Blessing. Gives all friendly wraithguard, wraithblade, wraithlord and wraithknight models within 12" Battle Focus and Furious Charge.
Pretty nasty imo, but doesn't entirely make up for lack of conceal/reveal.
Warlord traits:
1 D3 re-rolls per game for the walord
2 Warlord and all units within 12" have FnP (6+)
3 Warlord and his unit have hatred
4 Warlord has the spirit mark rule. if he already has it he can mark 2 units per turn.
5 Warlord and his unit has +1 to deny the witch rolls
6 Warlord may re-roll failed saves. loses the ability once he suffers and unsaved wound
Celestial Lance
6" S8 AP2 Assault 1, Lance, Spirit Shatter (If it kills a character or MC, place the large blast marker over the slain model and all units (friend and foe) suffer a hit at the slain units toughness with AP -)
S+3 AP2 Melee, Impact, Lance, Spirit Shatter
Soulshrive
S3 AP2 Melee, Mastercrafted, Spiritstealer (+1S to every unsaved wound caused earlier in the game)
Wraithforge Stone
During each of your movement phases, nominate a single wraithknight/wraithlord within 6". On a 3+ they gain a lost wound.
Guardian Helm
Always passes LoS rolls in units of wraithguard/wraithblades and wraithguard/wraithblade models can accept challenges if in the same unit.
Spear of Teuthlas (psyker only) -------Iyannas weapon!!!!
18" S9 AP - Assault 1, Fleshbane, Rending
SUser Ap - Melee, Armourbane, Fleshbane, Rending
Thanks you, frgt/10 for the rules! But what about the fluff and the content? Is it interresting? Would you say it's a good add on?
Yeah it's definitely worth it. I haven't read trough it all but there is a ton of background and it gives Iyanna a much bigger role in the grand scheme of the craft world.
Plus you get all the extra missions/etc
(...)
You can have a wraithlord or wraithknight as your warlord. It doesn't become an HQ choice. Big difference
$75 for the main rulebook.
$50 for Codex: Eldar
$40 (?) for Codex: Iyanden
And then about $100 with shipping for the FW book that has the most up-to-date Eldar rules in it so you can play with units like the wraithseer.
And GW is a "model company" first and foremost, lol.
Hmm, would have expected the Shining Spear Phoenix Lord's Celestial Lance to show up in Codex: Eldar or Codex: Saim-Hann; seems like a weird fit for just Iyanden.
$75 for the main rulebook.
$50 for Codex: Eldar
$40 (?) for Codex: Iyanden
And then about $100 with shipping for the FW book that has the most up-to-date Eldar rules in it so you can play with units like the wraithseer.
And GW is a "model company" first and foremost, lol.
Well, of course they are. It is far more profitable to sell a couple plastic sprues for $50 or $115 than it is to produce a physical book for $50 or $75.
maybe it's just me, but doesn't is appear as if many features of a codex refer to the main rule book, such as special rules. Granted there are additional things such as Bladestorm, etc... but overall it would appear that GW is trying to make it easier to update rules and still keep the codex for an army up to date. What this would mean for players is that even when 7th edition drops, it would still allow an army to be played with the updated rule book.
All one has to do is look at the sheer number of references going back to the rule book for the armies that have been released. What this shows me is that my Eldar codex and by connection the Iyanden supplement should remain largely valid even should a new edition of the rule book appear.
Kroothawk wrote: Did they dare to make a Codex Iyanden without a Wraithseer?
Yeah, this disappointed me too.
Still gonna take one in some games.
There's not really a need for it to be included in the book, as the Wraithseer's rules have the "Warhammer 40,000" stamp.
That won't stop people bleating about it being "illegal" and other such stuff.
Except Forgeworld stuff is no longer illegal, or "ask your opponent" only anymore. So someone can complain all they want, but they are considered official now.
Iron Father Mac wrote:maybe it's just me, but doesn't is appear as if many features of a codex refer to the main rule book, such as special rules. Granted there are additional things such as Bladestorm, etc... but overall it would appear that GW is trying to make it easier to update rules and still keep the codex for an army up to date. What this would mean for players is that even when 7th edition drops, it would still allow an army to be played with the updated rule book.
All one has to do is look at the sheer number of references going back to the rule book for the armies that have been released. What this shows me is that my Eldar codex and by connection the Iyanden supplement should remain largely valid even should a new edition of the rule book appear.
6th edition is going to be around for a long time. The plan will be to get all the codices up to date as quickly as possible, and then continue with the supplement releases - whether a game supplement, such as Apocalypse; or army-specific, such as Iyanden - to give everyone something fresh to play with every so often.
Except Forgeworld stuff is no longer illegal, or "ask your opponent" only anymore. So someone can complain all they want, but they are considered official now.
So you're going to sue people refusing to play against you? I sure wanna see that!
Except Forgeworld stuff is no longer illegal, or "ask your opponent" only anymore. So someone can complain all they want, but they are considered official now.
Well, until the main 40k rulebook says 'All forgeworld is part of the main game', people aren't going to accept your assertion.
Doesn't seem to have any restrictions like a normal sub-army would have. Honestly, it feels really lazy and a blatant money grab. You don't even have to use the entire Iyanden book as it's basically just addons to Eldar units that you can use in conjunction with standard Eldar.
There is no reason to not buy the book since who cares if you play Iyanden or not, just give each character wargear from one book, then another wargear from the other. You can even have Asurmen take Iyanden warlord traits while your warlocks use non-iyanden powers!. This would not be an issue if they included these secondary abilities in the main book. As it stands, IMO they purposefully left them out of the main Eldar book in order to fleece you for 50$ more.
The Eldar: Codex basically costs 100$ now since all options are fully compatible with one another in the same army list, this is NOT a sub-codex but additional pages to the main one.
Do I like additional options? Yes, is it absurd they didn't include them in the main book? Also yes
Except Forgeworld stuff is no longer illegal, or "ask your opponent" only anymore. So someone can complain all they want, but they are considered official now.
Well, until the main 40k rulebook says 'All forgeworld is part of the main game', people aren't going to accept your assertion.
welp as a good rule of thumb in a casual game I still talk to my opponent about it before using a FW unit so they know about it and it doesnt turn into a gotcha moment, my interest in being a good sport about things and having a good time always out weights my interest in using a FW model
Every single unit is only usable with opponent's permission.. Plenty of people won't play against an army they consider "cheesy" in a casual environment. Is FW in the base rules? Nah, but there comes a point where it's all just semantics. The reality is, you can more easily field FW in a casual game than you could a wraith + annihilation barge army or heldrake spam.
$75 for the main rulebook.
$50 for Codex: Eldar
$40 (?) for Codex: Iyanden
And then about $100 with shipping for the FW book that has the most up-to-date Eldar rules in it so you can play with units like the wraithseer.
And GW is a "model company" first and foremost, lol.
Please do not discuss piracy on DakkaDakka. See this post;
$75 for the main rulebook.
$50 for Codex: Eldar
$40 (?) for Codex: Iyanden
And then about $100 with shipping for the FW book that has the most up-to-date Eldar rules in it so you can play with units like the wraithseer.
And GW is a "model company" first and foremost, lol.
Please do not discuss piracy on DakkaDakka. See this post;
haroon wrote: [quote=Kanluwen
There's not really a need for it to be included in the book, as the Wraithseer's rules have the "Warhammer 40,000" stamp.
It's needed because all the things that can be cast on wl, wk, and wg cannot be cast on the spirtseer.
IM steping beyong my knowledge here since i just read the Wraithseer rules once but, wasnt he a HQ choice? And over it, hes a Farseer, i see it as normal that its not the same as his Wraith brethren, since hes something like a step above on sentient and mechanincal level of complexity. Of course, being able to "heal" a WK and not a WS its weird fluff wise, but not everithing its going to keep up perfectly rule wise.
Hey- So can anyone tell me if the shadow council replaces a warlock Council? Or can I take both? I want to double up with seers & warlocks on my guardian blobs, for my ugly ugly ulthwe footlist.
Tpiddy wrote: Hey- So can anyone tell me if the shadow council replaces a warlock Council? Or can I take both? I want to double up with seers & warlocks on my guardian blobs, for my ugly ugly ulthwe footlist.
Think of all the psychers!
You can. Shadow Council simply states that you can take 5 Spirtseers in one HQ slot. I believe warlock council is still indepent of the HQ slot.
$49.50, just like the codex. Strangely though the special edition is only $85 instead of $100. Once again I have to wonder if GW doesn't rely on dice to decide prices because this gak is awfully random.
H.B.M.C. wrote: It's not even 80 pages and it costs twice that of an FFG40KRPG book. So sad...
Yea but this has been proof read and edited lol.
That's a joke right? I hope so.. GW books are hardly proofread or edited to exacting standards. I question why anyone would pay for the limited edition of either of the eldar books. I'd be laughed out of the hobby by my friends if I spent 50$ on a dust jacket.
Firstly, I'm very entertained by the thought of them being termed "wraith-bros"
Next, if what I hear about the supplement is true then I'm excessively disappointed. I'd hoped for a genuinely fresh take on Iyanden, instead I end up with 2 pages of Matt Ward rules, and a bunch of stuff for 40k Supplements I don't intend to use. Does anyone have a clue just how much of the storylines are actually new? Hoping to find some kind of redeeming quality here...
Kroothawk wrote: Hmmm, a yellow dust jacket for 26€ (the price normal supplements cost):
That...that actually looks really cool I have no interest in Eldar but I'd probably be stupid enough to pay that for a sub-dex I was actually interested in.
I'm a huge fan of it, but can't justify an extra £20 for a glorified dusk jacket no matter how much I like it, so grabbed a normal one for the lads allies and a potential spare army for the family as I'll be painting them.
Kroothawk wrote: Hmmm, a yellow dust jacket for 26€ (the price normal supplements cost)
That...that actually looks really cool I have no interest in Eldar but I'd probably be stupid enough to pay that for a sub-dex I was actually interested in.
26 € is JUST the dust jacket. Add 39€ for the content
I would be more willing to buy a supplement for a codex if it was physical rather than a digital version. Im just old fashioned i like to hold things in my hands. Its the same with my music, i dont do downloads i prefer physical copies.
I cannot wait to spend an extra 80 bucks or so for Spiritseers that have also been thoroughly proofread. That is how I know their finecast will be free o grammatical defects.
Kroothawk wrote: Hmmm, a yellow dust jacket for 26€ (the price normal supplements cost)
That...that actually looks really cool I have no interest in Eldar but I'd probably be stupid enough to pay that for a sub-dex I was actually interested in.
26 € is JUST the dust jacket. Add 39€ for the content
Yeah Kroot, I'm going to have to agree with you here and say that BryllCream was a bit confused on what that extra 26€ was going to get him.
Kroothawk wrote: Hmmm, a yellow dust jacket for 26€ (the price normal supplements cost)
That...that actually looks really cool I have no interest in Eldar but I'd probably be stupid enough to pay that for a sub-dex I was actually interested in.
26 € is JUST the dust jacket. Add 39€ for the content
Yeah Kroot, I'm going to have to agree with you here and say that BryllCream was a bit confused on what that extra 26€ was going to get him.
It would have been super if they just made it a regular codex that was themed around Iyanden rather than a supplement. You don't need a supplement if you play space wolves or blood angels, so why start now?
I get the space marines are their biggest sellers and so theyre going to give them the most content, but come one. The first non-space marine expansion is set as a supplement for the main rulebook. For $50 I would really hope they could just stick in the same rules and just add their own wargear and content to it (or add restrictions that fit with Iyanden background). Honestly, I want this book, but as more info was leaked over the last few weeks it seemed like GW was trying to make this an obvious cash grab.
Frankly I am big on the background and I love the idea of 30-something new pages of history and illustrations, but does that justify the same price tag as a regular codex? Do i really want to drag around 3 books to play one army.
As someone without a horse in the Iyanden race, I don't see the amount of rules (putting the price aside for the moment) as an issue, just that it's a wasted opportunity.
IMO they should either have done all the Craftworlds, or gone for Codex: Doom of the Eldar and included variation for both Iyanden and the appropriate Tyranid hive fleet (Behemoth?) for normal games, then a host of scenarios etc like FW do with their 5-stage campaigns (eg in the Badab War books) so you could put together your own re-fight of the invasion of Iyanden.
Sword Of Caliban wrote: I would be more willing to buy a supplement for a codex if it was physical rather than a digital version. Im just old fashioned i like to hold things in my hands. Its the same with my music, i dont do downloads i prefer physical copies.
I may give this book a look, not to do Iyanden because I don't like the colour scheme but maybe my own Craftworld using Iyanden rules.
One thing though, does this book contain a complete set of rules, wargear and armylist. Or is it only a few extra things and you still have to reference the standard Eldar codex for all the statlines, weapons etc?
I am also curious as to what the actual contents of the book are, as I just spotted it on the GW site going for the same full codex price as its parent book.
Funny enough the super-duper limited edition goes for less than the super-duper limited edition of the parent book.
Leech wrote: One thing though, does this book contain a complete set of rules, wargear and armylist. Or is it only a few extra things and you still have to reference the standard Eldar codex for all the statlines, weapons etc?
As it says on GW's page, you still need a copy of Codex: Eldar for it to be of any use.
Keep in mind that it is totally possible to play Iyanden with the Eldar Codex, even with Wraith Guard as standards (if you take a spiritseer HQ). Codex Iyanden is a luxury bonus having some nice tidbits like new warlords traits, some extra background, some nice extra scenarios for special games, nothing absolutely essential. That's why they didn't even bother to translate this and sell it in stores.
That said, the price is of course insane and a test for future supplement codices.
Yeah they should let people just buy the sub-dex and open it up to find it referencing the Eldar codex and realising that they can't actually make an army.
Amazing how things are twisted on here to make GW look bad
I'd hazard yes. I'd gladly pay that if it was for IG or a Space Marine chapter, and I don't class myself as a serious hobbyist, I rarely even buy directly from GW.
And that's why GW gets away with it. Sell very expensive items to the few gullible instead of reasonable priced item's to the meny.
Wow, way to insult all your fellow gamers. I bought it because I like Iyanden, I have the army painted up, and want the special rules. I'm well aware of the fact that it costs 50.00, I promise I am. I am also aware that this whole hobby is a "luxury", expensive, and I in fact do not "need" this.
What I am not though is some dumb gullible sheep. I'm well aware of all of these things. Simple fact is I wanted it I had the money and I bought it. I was in no way suckered or swindled I knew what I was getting into.
And that's why GW gets away with it. Sell very expensive items to the few gullible instead of reasonable priced item's to the meny.
Pick the last thing you bought from GW... I think it is insanely overpriced and that you are an easily manipulated sheeple.
See how unhelpful it is?
Hmm let me think..... the last thing I bought from GW was... I can't rightly remember to be honest, it might of been a corpse cart from Ebay for about 10 quid. I don't buy from GW anymore BECAUSE of the prices there a joke. All the more power to you for buying from them (if you do) they'll keep on rising the prices and people will keep on buying. Next the rule books will be sold in hard back full colour sections, movement in one shooting in the another etc. I will start supporting GW again when they start giving a damn about there customer/fanbase.
And that's why GW gets away with it. Sell very expensive items to the few gullible instead of reasonable priced item's to the meny.
Wow, way to insult all your fellow gamers. I bought it because I like Iyanden, I have the army painted up, and want the special rules. I'm well aware of the fact that it costs 50.00, I promise I am. I am also aware that this whole hobby is a "luxury", expensive, and I in fact do not "need" this.
What I am not though is some dumb gullible sheep. I'm well aware of all of these things. Simple fact is I wanted it I had the money and I bought it. I was in no way suckered or swindled I knew what I was getting into.
That's alright for you then because you can afford it, and i suppose you will keep on buying when said books reach 60, 75 or even 100? My friend has to get his Codices (spelling?) and rules by other means because there to damn expensive. If they keep this up they will sell one Codex to one person because no-one else will be able to afford it, way to go growing the fanbase.
It selling out quick isn't a very big deal and GW does it deliberately. They produce an extremely limited number of products then claim its selling like hotcakes when it sells out. Well, no duh only 100 items would sell quick when you're a multinational corporation.
Harriticus wrote: It selling out quick isn't a very big deal and GW does it deliberately. They produce an extremely limited number of products then claim its selling like hotcakes when it sells out. Well, no duh only 100 items would sell quick when you're a multinational corporation.
The Hobbit Limited Edition didn't sell out too quickly.
That's alright for you then because you can afford it, and i suppose you will keep on buying when said books reach 60, 75 or even 100? My friend has to get his Codices (spelling?) and rules by other means because there to damn expensive. If they keep this up they will sell one Codex to one person because no-one else will be able to afford it, way to go growing the fanbase.
Lol. So because someone will buy something at one price, they'll buy it at a higher one? I earn minimum wage and I can still afford to spend £30 on something I enjoy...it's hardly a huge amount of money.
That's alright for you then because you can afford it, and i suppose you will keep on buying when said books reach 60, 75 or even 100? My friend has to get his Codices (spelling?) and rules by other means because there to damn expensive. If they keep this up they will sell one Codex to one person because no-one else will be able to afford it, way to go growing the fanbase.
The way I see it is I could pay more for video games(far more in some cases), but I don't play that many games and I like war gaming more. The prices and level of fun for both hobbies are very comparable to me so yeah I pay the premium now. Although you are right if they keep going up then yeah I'll cut back or stop but I just don't feel we're to that point yet.
That's alright for you then because you can afford it, and i suppose you will keep on buying when said books reach 60, 75 or even 100? My friend has to get his Codices (spelling?) and rules by other means because there to damn expensive. If they keep this up they will sell one Codex to one person because no-one else will be able to afford it, way to go growing the fanbase.
The way I see it is I could pay more for video games(far more in some cases), but I don't play that many games and I like war gaming more. The prices and level of fun for both hobbies are very comparable to me so yeah I pay the premium now. Although you are right if they keep going up then yeah I'll cut back or stop but I just don't feel we're to that point yet.
Spot onIi agre 100% (which is why i don't pay full price for my video games ). My price point has been reached. I'm just glad there are other games companies/systems out there that I play now for Example KoW, Warpath, Dreadball, Warmahordes, Infinity, Godslayer (as soon as my buds get there starter) and sometimes WFB. But I can't justify GW prices and subpar rules (IMO of course) I wouldn't mind paying premium price for a premium product but I honestly don't think GW gives me a premium product (IMO of course).
Leech wrote: One thing though, does this book contain a complete set of rules, wargear and armylist. Or is it only a few extra things and you still have to reference the standard Eldar codex for all the statlines, weapons etc?
As it says on GW's page, you still need a copy of Codex: Eldar for it to be of any use.
Thanks for the info.
I think it is rather annoying that if we use this and go out to game we need to drag another book around and ty to remember mid-game which one we need to reference for a rule.
BryllCream wrote: The Hobbit Limited Edition didn't sell out too quickly.
Last inofficial GW estimate I've heard was that it would sell out March2013.
BTW Limited Edition Eldar is not yet sold out, takes longer than Tau and High Elf LE. Although they claim to only have less than 600 left. Seems the 50$ plain green dust jacket isn't that popular
Compared to most hardback full colored books of the same quality $50 actually is about right. Really only problem I have is thier lack of justification for the price tag on their models. I can get a larger more detailed model that has color for half the price GW wants. Gundam models being a good example
Harriticus wrote: It selling out quick isn't a very big deal and GW does it deliberately. They produce an extremely limited number of products then claim its selling like hotcakes when it sells out. Well, no duh only 100 items would sell quick when you're a multinational corporation.
The Hobbit Limited Edition didn't sell out too quickly.
Yes, and that's very telling how utterly gak it was.
Harriticus wrote: It selling out quick isn't a very big deal and GW does it deliberately. They produce an extremely limited number of products then claim its selling like hotcakes when it sells out. Well, no duh only 100 items would sell quick when you're a multinational corporation.
The Hobbit Limited Edition didn't sell out too quickly.
Yes, and that's very telling how utterly gak it was.
It hasn't sold out yet. My FLGS still has all of theirs, and GW still sells it direct.
Harriticus wrote: It selling out quick isn't a very big deal and GW does it deliberately. They produce an extremely limited number of products then claim its selling like hotcakes when it sells out. Well, no duh only 100 items would sell quick when you're a multinational corporation.
The Hobbit Limited Edition didn't sell out too quickly.
Yes, and that's very telling how utterly gak it was.
Harriticus wrote: It selling out quick isn't a very big deal and GW does it deliberately. They produce an extremely limited number of products then claim its selling like hotcakes when it sells out. Well, no duh only 100 items would sell quick when you're a multinational corporation.
The Hobbit Limited Edition didn't sell out too quickly.
Yes, and that's very telling how utterly gak it was.
Or it may simply mean that fewer people really want to pay $100 US to get the same thing they can get for half that? Let's face it, GW's limited edition stuff just doesn't seem like a very good investment when you consider selling later on the secondary market. It seems to me (anecdotally) that the steam is running out on this "limited edition" scheme of theirs. Hopefully they'll stop doing it and get back to work raising prices on all their plastic kits.
I think if maybe they had out a bit more rules exclusivity into the book then people may have been more at ease with stumping up the cash. So it felt like your where really fleshing/wraithboning out the force, rather than just stapling two rules onto the eldar codex. Personally gws idea for supllemental codices is not for me in its current form.
That's alright for you then because you can afford it, and i suppose you will keep on buying when said books reach 60, 75 or even 100? My friend has to get his Codices (spelling?) and rules by other means because there to damn expensive. If they keep this up they will sell one Codex to one person because no-one else will be able to afford it, way to go growing the fanbase.
Your friend doesn't HAVE to do anything... He wants a luxury he can't afford and then gets it through less then legal means.
Breotan wrote: Or it may simply mean that fewer people really want to pay $100 US to get the same thing they can get for half that? Let's face it, GW's limited edition stuff just doesn't seem like a very good investment when you consider selling later on the secondary market. It seems to me (anecdotally) that the steam is running out on this "limited edition" scheme of theirs. Hopefully they'll stop doing it and get back to work raising prices on all their plastic kits.
Breotan wrote: Let's face it, GW's limited edition stuff just doesn't seem like a very good investment when you consider selling later on the secondary market. It seems to me (anecdotally) that the steam is running out on this "limited edition" scheme of theirs.
I don't think that most people buying limited editions are doing so for resale value... GW's limited stuff seems to do well when it is good. Just slapping a dust jacket on a book for twice the price? Shouldn't really have surprised anyone that it didn't sell quite as well.
I play Iyanden and I see no real value to this supplement. It's essentially 2-3 pages of rules and army background that I already knew about. Those 2-3 pages could have easily been added to the core Eldar codex with little problems. They also missed a huge opportunity to make Iyanna a special character and didn't...or to somehow move Wraithlords into a different FoC slot since the Heavy Support slot is full anyways. All in all, for the price of another codex, it's a huge let down for me.
CaptKaruthors wrote: I play Iyanden and I see no real value to this supplement. It's essentially 2-3 pages of rules and army background that I already knew about. Those 2-3 pages could have easily been added to the core Eldar codex with little problems. They also missed a huge opportunity to make Iyanna a special character and didn't...or to somehow move Wraithlords into a different FoC slot since the Heavy Support slot is full anyways. All in all, for the price of another codex, it's a huge let down for me.
Yeah, it's overpriced for sure, and of course they could have included the rules.
However, there is quite literally, no downside to using it as a supplement for an Iyanden army. So, there is definitely value in a competitive sense.
Manchu wrote: Standard edition Iyanden print listed as "no longer available."
I guess they sold out on the first run already?
Standard Edition still available in Europe. Limited Editions of Iyanden and Eldar Codex sold out finally (people love those dust jackets!). Limited Edition Hiobbit Starter still available while stock lasts
Sounds like I only need 2 pages to play Iyanden. I could just copy them out by hand while in the store and tuck it into my codex (so avoiding the illegal pdf download). Will that be ok for tournament play?
I mean - 2 pages of new rules ... how much of a waste of time is that?!
(you're meant to provide rules to reasure you aren't making stuff up and so reduce the number of rules disputes)
Anything that isn't an official GW book or thingy on an iPad introduces the possibility that an unsporting player has modified/changed the rules, or just plain made something up
My guess is that handwritten stuff will attract complaints from both those who don't agree with illegal pdfs (whether for IP reasons, because they are jerks or because it helps them win). It would then be down to the TO to rule on it
Don't forget the new Codex Supplement Series of books Iyanden: A Codex Eldar Supplement was only the first. There are still the Chaos big 4 that were rumored to come out instead of a unified Chaos Space Marine Codex.
So far this is the predicted release order of the Chaos Space Marine supplement books
World Eaters: A Codex Chaos Space Marine Supplement (It could be either or for the first one...though with all the Khorny stuff out now and the new Banelord super heavy coming out I would say World Eaters get released first.)
Death Guard: A Codex Chaos Space Marine Supplement
Emperors Children: A Codex Chaos Space Marine Supplement
Black Legion: A Codex Chaos Space Marine Supplement (1k sons gets bumped b/c of more BL interest with all the FWHH stuff out)
Thousand Sons: A Codex Chaos Space Marine Supplement
REDEATH wrote: Don't forget the new Codex Supplement Series of books Iyanden: A Codex Eldar Supplement was only the first. There are still the Chaos big 4 that were rumored to come out instead of a unified Chaos Space Marine Codex.
So far this is the predicted release order of the Chaos Space Marine supplement books
Death Guard: A Codex Chaos Space Marine Supplement
World Eaters: A Codex Chaos Space Marine Supplement
Emperors Children: A Codex Chaos Space Marine Supplement
Black Legion: A Codex Chaos Space Marine Supplement
Thousand Sons: A Codex Chaos Space Marine Supplement
More like Fleecing Your Players: A debt supplement for your credit card bill
So far this is the predicted release order of the Chaos Space Marine supplement books
World Eaters: A Codex Chaos Space Marine Supplement (It could be either or for the first one...though with all the Khorny stuff out now and the new Banelord super heavy coming out I would say World Eaters get released first.)
Death Guard: A Codex Chaos Space Marine Supplement
Emperors Children: A Codex Chaos Space Marine Supplement
Black Legion: A Codex Chaos Space Marine Supplement (1k sons gets bumped b/c of more BL interest with all the FWHH stuff out)
Thousand Sons: A Codex Chaos Space Marine Supplement
Doubt it. With the exception of Black Legion, none of those exist as a unified fighting force in 40K. Forge World's 30K seems the appropriate place. It would be an enormous contradiction of existing fluff to have them as coherent fighting Legions, rather than as remnants that patch together in motley renegade warbands under whatever Chaos Lord or Daemon Prince vicious enough to hold them together (for a time).
I have very mixed feelings about Codex Iyanden, mainly because of the price.
If it had more rules (special characters, force org changes, etc) then I'd be more likely to buy it and it would seem more worthy of a separate release. However, then I'd also be kinda pissed because it's almost like GW forced us to buy 2 codexes to play one army.
As it stands, with very few rules... I feel like it's not worth the money and they could have easily fit it into the main dex.
If it had been cheaper, like $15 to $30 and not hardback, then I don't think I'd have any issue with it.
All my random complaining aside, I hope they do them for Legions... and I think I hope they have more rules in them than Iyanden..
So far this is the predicted release order of the Chaos Space Marine supplement books
World Eaters: A Codex Chaos Space Marine Supplement (It could be either or for the first one...though with all the Khorny stuff out now and the new Banelord super heavy coming out I would say World Eaters get released first.)
Death Guard: A Codex Chaos Space Marine Supplement
Emperors Children: A Codex Chaos Space Marine Supplement
Black Legion: A Codex Chaos Space Marine Supplement (1k sons gets bumped b/c of more BL interest with all the FWHH stuff out)
Thousand Sons: A Codex Chaos Space Marine Supplement
Doubt it. With the exception of Black Legion, none of those exist as a unified fighting force in 40K. Forge World's 30K seems the appropriate place. It would be an enormous contradiction of existing fluff to have them as coherent fighting Legions, rather than as remnants that patch together in motley renegade warbands under whatever Chaos Lord or Daemon Prince vicious enough to hold them together (for a time).
Not really true at all, on the scale of 40k anyway. A few dozen marines from a given legion banded together is hardly a coherent Legion and is well within the fluff. I agree though that GW is highly unlikely to release those books.
Not really true at all, on the scale of 40k anyway. A few dozen marines from a given legion banded together is hardly a coherent Legion and is well within the fluff. I agree though that GW is highly unlikely to release those books.
Perhaps. But how would you write such a book. "This is a Codex for a faction that doesn't exist - except as shattered fragments cast into the far corners of the galaxy - yet we give you rules to play the unlikely constellation of a few converging on a single battle"?
The mix-and-match CSM-Codex approach is the fitting one, because it represents the disparage remnants of the old Legions under different Warlord. It carries the main theme (!) down to the scale of a 40K army!
Is it theoretically possible to have a gathering of only World Eaters large enough to make a "40K-sized-force"? Perhaps. Just as it is theoretically possible to have a gathering of only Ultramarine Terminators (1st Company going to war) or only Eldar Banshees led by their Phoenix Lord making a "40K-sized-force"?.
In all cases, these are so rare, un-typical and uncommon, that fan-made house-rules will surely suffice however.
The following sources would disagree:
World Eaters: Siege of Vraks
Death Guard: Siege of Vraks, build up to Eye of Terror
Thousand Sons: Space Wolf BL books, build up to Eye of Terror
Word Bearers: Word Bearer BL books
Night Lords: Night Lords BL books
Iron Warriors: UM/IWBL books
Which just leaves the EC and the AL, and AL don't really operate in that way anyway.
Baragash wrote: The following sources would disagree:
World Eaters: Siege of Vraks
A renegade Storm Lord Space Marine sergeant turned-chaos assembling Berzerkers (from all kinds of flavourful Warbands such as Bleck Brethren, etc...) in the name of Abaddon? Hardly World Eater except for the fact that it sells better under that label.
Indeed, a significant portion of Berzerkers commanded at the Siege of Vraks weren't World Eaters, but actually the Sanctified, which of course are (Khorne-worshipping, anti-old-Word-Bearer-Legion) Word Bearers to begin with
Thousand Sons: Space Wolf BL books, build up to Eye of Terror
No Thousands Sons anywhere. Quite the opposite, mainly the Thousands Sons' most infamous exile and outcast - Ahriman - and his motley band of renegades (who'd all be shot on sight by Daemon-Magnus)
Haven't read these books. But they seem pretty scattered from most GW stuff. Hurons command ship is a (fully crewed) Word Bearer battle barge (cause, like all Chaos Marines, they threw in with the biggest Alpha around). Renegade Warbands like the Warriors of Agannor. Also see the Siege of Vraks above.
Which is basically all about Talos coming to the realization that the Night Lords no longer exist, not as a martial force, not in the "spirit" in which Kurze turned from the Emperor, even if it takes him 10.000 years to cut through that self-delusion.
Fragile alliances with Abaddon, the Blood Reaver, etc.. are key themes throughout.
Nevertheless, as most of the above, Forge World and Black Library aren't 100% canon to begin with!! They have (hard-fought-for) creative licence to pursue their own take on the 40K-universe.
Canon or not GW wants to make money, and given the success of FW with their marine bonanza its hard to see GW not cashing in.
There were early rumors that GW had made new plastics of Thousand Sons and Noise Marines. It may be they are holding on to these to release them when their supplement comes out. Perhaps not as a Codex; THousand Sons or Codex-Emperors Children but as a Codex: Forces of Tzeentch, Forces of Slaanesh.
This would allow them to also release anything they came up with for CHaos Demons as well.
In a grander scheme of things if they decided on this route it would make the Chaos codex more understandable in its blandness and lack of Legion specific wargear.
Zweischneid wrote: In all cases, these are so rare, un-typical and uncommon, that fan-made house-rules will surely suffice however.
I think this is kinda moot, when's the last time a codex prevented you from taking such lists?
Zahndrek's fluff says he never will use units like destroyers, deathmarks, or wraiths but nothing prevents you from doing so. You can take Farsight and Shadowsun in the same list. You can make a GK list with more Purifiers than are supposed to exist in the galaxy.
If Iyanden got their own book, I can't imagine GW wouldn't make some Legion books at some point. They know Chaos sells. I don't think they'll make all of them though. I would love it if they did, but I think that's just hoping for too much.
did anyone get the one click bundle email? limited time only 24 hours but when I totalled everything up I was not saving a cent $798AUD in one click...no thanks.
I read the blurb on the website all it said was you save shipping and can be delivered same or next day. Don't you auto get free shipping?
The so called "one click deals" isn't nothing special in my eyes. But guess there are some people that think they are saving something - only thing you might be saving is thoses few minutes in ordering.
I'm kind of shuddering in thinking that these supplements is the way GW are going to be going.
I literally said WTF out loud when I seen that bundle and its description, there is absoloutely no point doing a special one day 'deal' when there is nothing of a deal at all.
HURRY, for one day only we will save you the time of clicking 'add to cart' multiple times. Jesus almighty.
unmercifulconker wrote: I literally said WTF out loud when I seen that bundle and its description, there is absoloutely no point doing a special one day 'deal' when there is nothing of a deal at all.
HURRY, for one day only we will save you the time of clicking 'add to cart' multiple times. Jesus almighty.
That is totally worth $100, no $200 for me.
I AM A BUSY MAN.
But...yeah. I mean, that kind of impulse buy might work if 1) there was actually a discount or 2) if there were some sort of web exclusive collectors thingy (people love that) or 3) it was at an impulse buy price point ($25-50?).
But how many people are going to drop $672 on plastic soldiers on zero notice for zero discount?
As a longtime GW fan this kind of silliness worries me. You're doing it wrong, etc.
Players who want an instant army (and there are worryingly large numbers of them)
Parents who buy little jimmy (or much more rarely little gemima) that expensive new toy he's been asking for
besides it serves of advertising, you click and look and go ' wow expensive i'd never get that' but in doing so you see the minis and think, maybe just a wraith knight, or box of bikes or whATEVER
Mine arrived yesterday, love the fluff background and although I do lament the lack of the Angel as a Special Character, the spear in the 'artifacts' section that is hers will be enough to represent her, plus the Iyanden psyker power.
The only thing that makes me chuckle is GW needs to get another craftworld book out sharpish, as with zero negatives for using the Iyanden additions to the main codex, Eldar tournament armies 'this yeah will mostly be in yellow'
Yeah,
I do really like the new hard back books. And this one is pretty!
It's got Loads of cool fluff and Loads of cool photos of minis...
Pretty
1page of Iyanden rules
1page of Iyanden wargear
The Idiots guide to playing a ghost warrior army is just filler... 'Wraith guns are short range but good!' - 'Wraith lords are tough'
1page of City of death rules - Filler
1page of planet strike rules - Filler
Lots of missions... Historical Battles & Alter of War - Battle missions
While the battle missions look like fun, It's kind of hard to justify the price tag for 2 pages of actual Iyanden rules...
Sure the fluff is lovely but the actual game content is weak.
Compared to the old codex suppliments, Codex Craftworlds codex eye of terror this is a fail.
A nice book but a missed opportunity.
It just needed some new codex entries. In 5 minutes I can think of loads
Special characters - Iyanna Arienal and Wraith Guard Character?
the Wraithseer (duh!!!)
New WraithGuard options - One WraithGuard can be upgraded to a WraithBlade for free.
Mixed WraithBlade options - any number of WraithBlades may replace both Swords for an Axe and Shield.
Lords moved to Elites (actually moved)
Lords may take D-canons
I found the fluff to be particularly interesting. It was pretty good stuff even for Ward.
This guy obviously was going to bash Ward no matter how good it might have been. He even spends the first few paragraphs completely misinterpreting the differences of Biel-Tan and Iyanden. It reeks of bias.
The fluff IMO could have been better but it's not as bad as this guy makes it out to be.
It just needed some new codex entries. In 5 minutes I can think of loads
Special characters - Iyanna Arienal and Wraith Guard Character?
Not gonna happen. The days of just fun-character entries for the sake of fun-character entries in the spirit of Duke Slicus, etc.. or little teasers for converter and DIY-modellers are definitely over.
Thank you Chapterhouse studios.
Indeed, things like Warlord Wraithlords and the Spear of Teuthlas are - arguably - a desperate attempt of doing the above things in spirit at least, but without (hopefully) exposing their IP to slimy free-rider parasites like Chapterhouse, who'd only try to make a quick buck from it.
Zweischneid wrote: Not gonna happen. The days of just fun-character entries for the sake of fun-character entries in the spirit of Duke Slicus, etc.. or little teasers for converter and DIY-modellers are definitely over.
Thank you Chapterhouse studios.
text removed. Bit strong there I'm afraid.
Reds8n
It's not anyone's fault but GW's they don't put things in their books. Things have been missing in many books for years before 3rd party people showed up.
They always provide themselves the opportunity to do so, but don't.
Zweischneid wrote: Not gonna happen. The days of just fun-character entries for the sake of fun-character entries in the spirit of Duke Slicus, etc.. or little teasers for converter and DIY-modellers are definitely over.
Thank you Chapterhouse studios.
Lol... careful there, it's dripping down your chin.
It's not anyone's fault but GW's they don't put things in their books. Things have been missing in many books for years before 3rd party people showed up.
They always provide themselves the opportunity to do so, but don't.
They did have them in the book. Iyanna Arienal obviously was in the 3rd Edition Codex. That is the point. Prior to 6th, GW tended to put stuff into their books, even if they didn't (immediately or ever) make models for it. If the idea was there, just put it in and let hobbyists take a stab at it.
Chapterhouse clearly curbs the ability of GW to put anything into the any book or other publication that they cannot immediately "cover" with a miniature.
It kinda jars with the oft-stated premise that GW makes models first, rules later. They surely have the capability to produce the models before the codex (I mean they added Illic and made a model).
Shandara wrote: It kinda jars with the oft-stated premise that GW makes models first, rules later. They surely have the capability to produce the models before the codex (I mean they added Illic and made a model).
You think so?
I doubt that books are the bottleneck. Black Library is publishing some 5 to 10 books a month. GW studio puts out all those e-Publications, the White Dwarf, etc.. .
If they'd wanted to do it, and shift a few people around, they could easily publish 4 or 5 Codexes a month.
The miniatures are the part that counts. The first half of 2012 and the first half of 2013 saw roughly the same amount of new 40K miniatures released, even if the first half of 2012 had zero Codexes and the first half of 2012 had four so far. Books are easy to make. The books don't matter.
And yes, they added Illic, and to Tau new Tau Characters before him, and they revived Asmodai from the 3rd (?) Edition book with a new mini. But for everyone they do, another 5 or so stay "lost". There're limits to how many new miniatures they can or want to do, especially for an experimental book like Iyanden, Crusade of Fire or whatever.
It's not a big deal. The Spear of Teuthlas works well enough in simulating Iyanna. But 3 years ago, they wouldn't have had a second thought about putting in a page with Iyanna-rules. At worst, it would've been copy-&-paste from the 3rd Edition book. Now, in the days of Chapterhouse, they clearly must weigh the potential for abuse by freeriders.
The point is that due to the low quality products that these leach companies are injecting into the HHHobby GW has taken the position to avoid leaving gaps in the market.
Now we have no more cool codex entries without Miniatures thanks to these scumbags... No more wave 2 or wave 3... Just minor updates with each new codex.
The main problem I have is that these guys say they love the HHHobby, they love 40k!
Yet when the company that makes the game asks them to stop ruining it they don't stop, which shows that they don't love the hobby they love the cash...
They have done more damage to it than other scumbags like crappy piracy pirates.
That makes them lying leaching scumbags who are ruining the hobby. That's not just opinion. It's fact.
Seriously? Third party figure companies are no more leeches on GW than third party auto part guys are on GM. Also, anyone using HHHobby as a positive rather than GW trying to act like the rest of the world doesn't exist.
The only dumber thing I've heard over the last few weeks is fanboys apologizing over the X-Box One lock down. Seriously, the only person to blame for "disappointing" GW releases (I honestly liked the 40K codex releases this edition) is GW. If they wanted to make bigger releases, they could have slowed down the codex releases and just done twice as many kits for each army. But reworked plastic kits don't have the high volume that new kits do, so we're seeing very few reworked kits for existing plastics.
hands_miranda wrote: Seriously? Third party figure companies are no more leeches on GW than third party auto part guys are on GM.
Yeah?
I wanna see you try selling auto parts for General Motors without their consent.
hands_miranda wrote: If they wanted to make bigger releases, they could have slowed down the codex releases and just done twice as many kits for each army. But reworked plastic kits don't have the high volume that new kits do, so we're seeing very few reworked kits for existing plastics.
They did that.
Dark Eldar, to name the most obvious example, had 31 different unique releases. That is more than everything released for Warhammer 40K in 2013 so far taken together (!)
Chapterhouse is one of the reasons they'll never again do this. To leave units "without models" until a later wave is simply no longer an option.
hands_miranda wrote: Seriously? Third party figure companies are no more leeches on GW than third party auto part guys are on GM.
Yeah?
I wanna see you try selling auto parts for General Motors without their consent.
hands_miranda wrote: If they wanted to make bigger releases, they could have slowed down the codex releases and just done twice as many kits for each army. But reworked plastic kits don't have the high volume that new kits do, so we're seeing very few reworked kits for existing plastics.
They did that.
Dark Eldar, to name the most obvious example, had 31 different unique releases. That is more than everything released for Warhammer 40K in 2013 so far taken together (!)
Chapterhouse is one of the reasons they'll never again do this. To leave units "without models" until a later wave is simply no longer an option.
If only they had some sort of publication, maybe even a monthly, where they could put these special rules and characters. Then, they could publish a compendium, say once a year or two, wrapping all of this up together...
YOU KNOW, LIKE THEY USED TO DO.
Blaming Chaptehouse is demonstrably BS. They used to release minis along with the rules in White Dwarf. Heck, they used to release templates to make your own special vehicles and figures. They have the vehicle IN PLACE to release via wave, with a full write-up to make sure no one makes a model of something they left hanging, they just don't use it anymore. Don't expect me to feel sorry or sympathetic because they are morons.
proditorcappela wrote: Blaming Chaptehouse is demonstrably BS. They used to release minis along with the rules in White Dwarf. Heck, they used to release templates to make your own special vehicles and figures. They have the vehicle IN PLACE to release via wave, with a full write-up to make sure no one makes a model of something they left hanging, they just don't use it anymore. Don't expect me to feel sorry or sympathetic because they are morons.
You can blame GW for not wanting to do white dwarf updates/compendiums like the old days of chapter approved, but you can without a doubt blame Chapterhouse for GW ceasing to make new units/vehicles/characters with no model at the initial release. Before 3rd parties started jumping into the market on these units without models, the player got a greater quantity of new units in books, particularly units that might have to wait for a later wave or characters that would not be short term planned to have a model like DE has for a couple.
Overall the situation now sucks, and having a book come out with no model for units you wanted sucked in a different way. I blame both Chapterhouse and GW for creating this situation. At the same time, I applaud GW for the relatively rapid release schedule.
If only they had some sort of publication, maybe even a monthly, where they could put these special rules and characters. Then, they could publish a compendium, say once a year or two, wrapping all of this up together...
YOU KNOW, LIKE THEY USED TO DO.
Blaming Chaptehouse is demonstrably BS. They used to release minis along with the rules in White Dwarf. Heck, they used to release templates to make your own special vehicles and figures. They have the vehicle IN PLACE to release via wave, with a full write-up to make sure no one makes a model of something they left hanging, they just don't use it anymore. Don't expect me to feel sorry or sympathetic because they are morons.
What would that change? They could release White Dwarf rules for miniatures they release, but that wouldn't help one bit in bringing back miniature-less Codex-entries for the tinkerers, modellers, converters and hobbysits to enjoy? Those are gone forever. Because. Of. Chapterhouse.
How is it Games Workshop's fault that the bloated leeches of Chapterhouse can't be bothered to get off their lazy asses and, for example, start doing their own miniatures, for their own game, for their own fictional universe! Just like millions of others non-pirating entrepreneurs out there every day. And it's easier than ever with sites like Kickstarter.
But no, somehow it's GW's fault that Chapterhouse is ripping them off? Because they are "inviting" them to do it? Because they could - with enough effort - pursue a course of action that wouldn't open these vulnerabilities to criminals like Chapterhouse?
I don't think there's any need for this analogy.
Reds8n
hands_miranda wrote: If they wanted to make bigger releases, they could have slowed down the codex releases and just done twice as many kits for each army. But reworked plastic kits don't have the high volume that new kits do, so we're seeing very few reworked kits for existing plastics.
And I think it is GW's loss. Every time I see new beautiful plastics like the Wraithguard I get excited to start a new army. Then I see they are still reboxing and increasing prices on 15-year-old jetbikes or that they still have never released an all-plastic storm guardians box, and I put the Wraithguard back on the shelf.
GW needs to spend some love on the models they already have rules for first, and then worry about adding new units.
I think it would be better all round if people calmed down and took a breath.
I appreciate how easy it is for arguments to escalate via this medium, but it is just toy soldiers at the end of the day. So some proportionality is a good idea.
When did GW become so original? GW have made more money off other peoples stuff than CHS have made off GW and likely will continue to make more and more. GW are a parasite company. CHS is just returning the favour.
Zweischneid wrote: Not gonna happen. The days of just fun-character entries for the sake of fun-character entries in the spirit of Duke Slicus, etc.. or little teasers for converter and DIY-modellers are definitely over.
Thank you Chapterhouse studios.
LOL... anyone else reading this and the subsequent rants not based in the same reality as the only court ruling on the subject as if it were part of the "Thanks, Obama!" meme?
Anyways... back to Iyanden. So the book only has 2 pages of rules for "normal" games not using specialty scenarios? I can't say I'm shocked at the actual content as that roughly matches what the old 3rd edition craftworld codex had per craftworld... but it charged half the price (AFTER adjusting for inflation) for 5x the craftworlds. Ultimately, if people are happy with their purchase and go in with both eyes wide open to what they're getting, that's the important thing. For those who just want to use a rule or two, it shouldn't be too difficult to just jot them down on some whitespace in their normal codex with a pen as well.
What would that change? They could release White Dwarf rules for miniatures they release, but that wouldn't help one bit in bringing back miniature-less Codex-entries for the tinkerers, modellers, converters and hobbysits to enjoy? Those are gone forever. Because. Of. Chapterhouse.
How is it Games Workshop's fault that the bloated leeches of Chapterhouse can't be bothered to get off their lazy asses and, for example, start doing their own miniatures, for their own game, for their own fictional universe! Just like millions of others non-pirating entrepreneurs out there every day. And it's easier than ever with sites like Kickstarter.
Riiiight... It's awful the way people want to make money sculpting miniatures that GW seemingly has no intention of making. I am sure that GW made no money at all on Thunderwolves or the Tervigon (two miniatures that released long after other companies had made third-party versions). And now that they do have miniatures, I imagine that players continue to buy the third-party versions over the GW all-plastic kits.
Alright, I'm done being sarcastic now. Seriously, if GW feels genuinely threatened by Chapterhouse Studios I would die of shock. The quality of GW minis is higher, they have the capacity to work in plastic (which is a huge selling point for a large portion of the community), and they are regularly available in stores (unlike most third-party models).
I think GW is pretty safe from the predations of "criminals" like that.
The point is that due to the low quality products that these leach companies are injecting into the HHHobby GW has taken the position to avoid leaving gaps in the market.
Now we have no more cool codex entries without Miniatures thanks to these scumbags... No more wave 2 or wave 3... Just minor updates with each new codex.
The main problem I have is that these guys say they love the HHHobby, they love 40k!
Yet when the company that makes the game asks them to stop ruining it they don't stop, which shows that they don't love the hobby they love the cash...
They have done more damage to it than other scumbags like crappy piracy pirates.
That makes them lying leaching scumbags who are ruining the hobby. That's not just opinion. It's fact.
Panic...
You plainly do not understand the meanings of either of those words.
If Chapterhouse has any effect on GW's production model, it's GW's fault. All of us are forgetting the easiest, and possibly best option that GW has at its disposal: ignore them. Seriously, they could ignore Chapterhouse completely and release models whenever they feel like it. Once the official GW model comes out, demand for the third party version will dry up. We've seen this happen with the tervigon release. No need to fuss about any of it.
Besides, if one guy in his garage can threaten a multi-million pound corporation like GW, then the corporation is failing, profoundly.
Remember, N&R is for news but also discussion of news. The idea of GW printing supplements and what they put into them being affected by what's going on in the larger context of the wargaming market belongs here because it's what you might call a "current events" discussion.
I wanna see you try selling auto parts for General Motors without their consent.
This happens all the time, I can walk ten feet from my house and find cosmetic peices like rims, trims, grills etc compatible with GM models, and goto any of a hundred different places in this city to find functional pieces like timing belts, fans, mufflers etc that will fit GM cars that aren't made by GM.
The point is that due to the low quality products that these leach companies are injecting into the HHHobby GW has taken the position to avoid leaving gaps in the market.
Now we have no more cool codex entries without Miniatures thanks to these scumbags... No more wave 2 or wave 3... Just minor updates with each new codex.
The main problem I have is that these guys say they love the HHHobby, they love 40k!
Yet when the company that makes the game asks them to stop ruining it they don't stop, which shows that they don't love the hobby they love the cash...
They have done more damage to it than other scumbags like crappy piracy pirates.
That makes them lying leaching scumbags who are ruining the hobby. That's not just opinion. It's fact.
Panic...
There.. are just so many things wrong with this, I don't know where to start with it..
I really hope you are trying to parody such a ridiculous opinion...
Yeah,
Nope no parody here, I would have loved it if GW had of placed another three units in each of the recent codexs with no current model,
A couple of extra characters with exciting different abilities and we had chaos/tau/eldar wave two to look forward to...
But they don't do that anymore to remove the temptation from certain companies.
When we get excited about a new codex releases, these companies got excited for a different reason, they would rush out and obtain a copy and flip through the codex looking for IP to steal and making cash grabs with stuff like brood mother conversion kits and space robot arms and alien bikes that have no GW model/option available yet and swamp the forums with these sloppy releases cashing in on GW rules...
Because of their greed we'll never see empty codex entries like the trevigon again. They are now deleted from the codex during planning.
That is the very real harm these companies have done to the hobby.
Codexs are now limited to what's available now plus the two or three new kits that are ready, as a direct response to this constant IP infringment...
Panic wrote: Yeah,
Nope no parody here, I would have loved it if GW had of placed another three units in each of the recent codexs with no current model,
A couple of extra characters with exciting different abilities and we had chaos/tau/eldar wave two to look forward to...
But they don't do that anymore to remove the temptation from certain companies.
When we get excited about a new codex releases, these companies got excited for a different reason, they would rush out and obtain a copy and flip through the codex looking for IP to steal and making cash grabs with stuff like brood mother conversion kits and space robot arms and alien bikes that have no GW model/option available yet and swamp the forums with these sloppy releases cashing in on GW rules...
Because of their greed we'll never see empty codex entries like the trevigon again. They are now deleted from the codex during planning.
That is the very real harm these companies have done to the hobby.
Codexs are now limited to what's available now plus the two or three new kits that are ready, as a direct response to this constant IP infringment...
Panic...
News Flash... GW is a model selling company.
Double News Flash... No need for codex entries for the game unless they have a model to sell. "LoL guyz can you believe these people want to play a game with models? Whats' we sell? Lets make rules for doz thingz!" -GW
If GW leaves a gap in the market they created then I do not understand your issue. So many people have been using "counts as" armies using other manufacturer parts, tanks for IG from other manufactures, and (GASP) other companies models to suit their flavor for their own GW army. However the largest portion of the market still belongs to GW and those companies that sell add on parts are such a small portion they should have no effect on GW. Actually GW taking the stance as the inverse is stupid on their part and a great way to lose money. Isnt the current Nurgle Demon Prince modle a sculpt that GW got at a gamesday from an entry? That is the business model they should adapt. Rather than waste money suing maybe they should buy out these small companies if they are such a threat and hold them to a non-compete clause. Win/Win.... I believe the first land speeder was actually made of a deodorant bottle....first great conversion trouncing on GW IP? SUE SPEED STICK!!!!
Yes that is how silly your argument is Panic...sorry....
That being said I would love to know if Ilyanden is or will be released in other digital formats? Anyone have a rumor or info on that?
Could Games-Workshop not just create Codex entries without official models, then people can kit-bash/convert/counts-as these models using GW parts, or go to third party manufacturers?
If the former, then GW makes money, if the latter then they don't actually have an official model to lose sales from?
I imagine this would work particularly well with Iyanna, for example, who could be a simple conversion with GW parts.
To me at least (as a layman) this seems the best option for the customer...?
There's no infringement going on there, GW left a hole so someone else came in to fill it. Not everybody wants to have to convert or scratchbuild their army to be WYSIWYG for, say, an upcoming tournament. They want a model they can buy, and when the "model company" that makes the game decides not to make a model, they're obviously going to look elsewhere. Companies like Chapterhouse are good for the player, GW just took their reaction too far. They could still easily slow down their release cycle and give every army one or two additional new kits, but they'd rather get all of their rules updated (which I'm in favor of).
Essentially, the problem comes down to them claiming to be a model company but producing like they're a rules company.
I remember back when this thread was about the Iyanden supplement and not about chapterhouse vs. Gw. Please, there are other threads for this.
On-Topic
, like many others dislike the price of the supplement but a friend of mine has passed on ssome pleasant knowledge...
"This is your hobby. If you want to continue doing it, shut up and buy what you want. If you have an issue with the prices, DONT BUY THEM and do something else."
On to a sub point, I actually enjoy the Iyanden book and the rules are a nice little deviation from the main book. Am I convinced to buy all of the supplements....no. Will I buy the ones that I will use. Well hell yeah because I think in the long run everyone will be happy to be able to play with those armies that are backed by the GW canon because its worth it to them.
Guildsman wrote: If Chapterhouse has any effect on GW's production model, it's GW's fault. All of us are forgetting the easiest, and possibly best option that GW has at its disposal: ignore them. Seriously, they could ignore Chapterhouse completely and release models whenever they feel like it. Once the official GW model comes out, demand for the third party version will dry up. We've seen this happen with the tervigon release. No need to fuss about any of it.
Besides, if one guy in his garage can threaten a multi-million pound corporation like GW, then the corporation is failing, profoundly.
Guildsman wrote: If Chapterhouse has any effect on GW's production model, it's GW's fault. All of us are forgetting the easiest, and possibly best option that GW has at its disposal: ignore them. Seriously, they could ignore Chapterhouse completely and release models whenever they feel like it. Once the official GW model comes out, demand for the third party version will dry up. We've seen this happen with the tervigon release. No need to fuss about any of it.
Besides, if one guy in his garage can threaten a multi-million pound corporation like GW, then the corporation is failing, profoundly.
Wrong.
Just because I could by an alarm, doesn't make robbing my house legal if I don't.
Just because I own a thousand cars and losing one doesn't cost me much, stealing one of them is still stealing a car.
Chapterhouse are crooks of the worst kind. That GW's business isn't fundamentally endangered by them does in no way mitigate the moral abomination that is Chapterhouse's "offering" to this hobby.
Producing models that GW doesn't is not stealing or morally wrong.
Producing models that have the same use as GW's offering but aren't direct copies isn't stealing or morally wrong. Competition, free market and all. The best offering wins..
Producing kits that require you to actually buy GW models to actually is not stealing or morally wrong. Actually it is morally wrong to require us to buy GW stuff!
Guildsman wrote: If Chapterhouse has any effect on GW's production model, it's GW's fault. All of us are forgetting the easiest, and possibly best option that GW has at its disposal: ignore them. Seriously, they could ignore Chapterhouse completely and release models whenever they feel like it. Once the official GW model comes out, demand for the third party version will dry up. We've seen this happen with the tervigon release. No need to fuss about any of it.
Besides, if one guy in his garage can threaten a multi-million pound corporation like GW, then the corporation is failing, profoundly.
Wrong.
Just because I could by an alarm, doesn't make robbing my house legal if I don't.
Just because I own a thousand cars and losing one doesn't cost me much, stealing one of them is still stealing a car.
Chapterhouse are crooks of the worst kind. That GW's business isn't fundamentally endangered by them does in no way mitigate the moral abomination that is Chapterhouse's "offering" to this hobby.
You're comparing apples and oranges. A better comparison is the one someone brought up earlier about aftermarket parts for a car. Totally legal to buy a new stereo system or some rims or whatever. By your logic, Madcats (the game controller brand) are criminals because they're making alternates to an existing product. Now, you could argue that Madcats controllers are criminally terrible and I'd agree, but that's not the point .
When one company doesn't make something you can't say it's criminal for another to do it instead.
You're comparing apples and oranges. A better comparison is the one someone brought up earlier about aftermarket parts for a car. Totally legal to buy a new stereo system or some rims or whatever. By your logic, Madcats (the game controller brand) are criminals because they're making alternates to an existing product. Now, you could argue that Madcats controllers are criminally terrible and I'd agree, but that's not the point .
When one company doesn't make something you can't say it's criminal for another to do it instead.
I am not comparing anything.
I am making an analogy to illustrate the ludicrousness of the argument, that GW's relatively larger scale - and the fact that Chapterhouses competition isn't life-threatening to them - would in itself excuse the moral perfidy of leeches like Chapterhouse.
Yes. Chapterhouses business isn't stealing cars. A given.
That wasn't the point of the analogy, as should've been painfully obvious to everyone reading the quote I referenced before making this analogy.
Discussion of how CH and other third parties may or may not have effected GW's decisions regarding publishing this supplement or supplements in general is fine and on-topic. Discussion of whether or not CH and other third parties are morally or legally in the right or wrong is off-topic. Please keep in mind that Rule Number Two is Stay On Topic.
Fishboy wrote: If GW leaves a gap in the market they created then I do not understand your issue. So many people have been using "counts as" armies using other manufacturer parts, tanks for IG from other manufactures, and (GASP) other companies models to suit their flavor for their own GW army. However the largest portion of the market still belongs to GW and those companies that sell add on parts are such a small portion they should have no effect on GW. Actually GW taking the stance as the inverse is stupid on their part and a great way to lose money. Isnt the current Nurgle Demon Prince modle a sculpt that GW got at a gamesday from an entry? That is the business model they should adapt. Rather than waste money suing maybe they should buy out these small companies if they are such a threat and hold them to a non-compete clause. Win/Win.... I believe the first land speeder was actually made of a deodorant bottle....first great conversion trouncing on GW IP? SUE SPEED STICK!!!!
Yes that is how silly your argument is Panic...sorry....
That being said I would love to know if Ilyanden is or will be released in other digital formats? Anyone have a rumor or info on that?
actually, given how the kind of folks who cheerlead for an even more restrictive system of IP law than is already in place seem to be generally, you really ought to try just setting all of them to 'ignore'. Really, my reading pleasure on dakka has increased greatly since I did.
On topic: the other digital formats will happen whenever they release all their stuff in other digital formats. AFAIK: not bloody likely anytime soon. Why do you really feel the need, though? Doesn't even the US permit the use of downloaded files as backups of already otherwise legally owned content? Just have the physical book lying around at home. The one benefit of the digital books is the added content and since that's all iBooks specific, that's not going to jump platform anytime soon in all likelihood. It's not as if there's a penny in the way of discount on them compared to the hardcopy.
Huoshini wrote: like many others dislike the price of the supplement but a friend of mine has passed on ssome pleasant knowledge...
"This is your hobby. If you want to continue doing it, shut up and buy what you want. If you have an issue with the prices, DONT BUY THEM and do something else."
I don't want anyone to get the idea that I'm not doing that. If I'm bitching about prices I'm most likely not buying the crap (one of the rare exceptions was Space Hulk, I didn't think that game should be $100 but I eventually caved and bought it...apparently lucky I did, because Space Hulk is fething awesome and it's like $300 now on eBay). $50 for a codex supplement is a rip-off, especially if future releases match the quality of this one, and I don't see myself being enticed to buy one while they remain $50. Still don't have a riptide or a sun shark, either, and those are both models with ridiculous price points and horrible sculpts to boot.
That said I still reserve every right to bitch about those things online until they stop annoying me. Or in regards to Tau models, when GW finally makes a plastic barracuda for $65 so I can actually buy flyers for my army.
Actually now that I think about it, I'm still not that lucky because while I do own a copy of SH, I can't actually play with it because it's so fething expensive and rare now. I only played with it twice before I realized this and put it away. I checked it the other day and I still don't have any warped tiles or broken models (though a couple are close, they're still unpainted so you can see stressed plastic on a couple of dangly bits).
Guildsman wrote: If Chapterhouse has any effect on GW's production model, it's GW's fault. All of us are forgetting the easiest, and possibly best option that GW has at its disposal: ignore them. Seriously, they could ignore Chapterhouse completely and release models whenever they feel like it. Once the official GW model comes out, demand for the third party version will dry up. We've seen this happen with the tervigon release. No need to fuss about any of it.
Not only that, but GW would have been a million bucks richer in the end, if nothing else.
As for Iyanden being unavailable, judging from that review from a previous page, it seems like that's no big loss. I'm sure it'll probably come back though...unlike a certain other codex that I would love to see, more than a literal mountain of $50 supplements with crappy fluff and two pages of rules.
Am I the only one pissed that I cannot buy this damn book? I tried every legal option available stopping short at buying an Ipad so I can overpay for a digital edition.
The usual illegal venues don't even have it yet. What the hell is the point of putting out a product with fanfaire if you cant even supply it?
Man I have been playing an Iyanden/Eldritch Raiders list since this game started, my patience is long gone. I am miffed that I thought my flgs was going to be able to stock this book and I made the mistake of waiting to you know, support them.
I suppose from an outside point of view this could look like a non issue, but playing an iyanden list and having games (large ones at that) that are upcoming (like tommorow) without having access to the now official rules to the army because I made a very ill informed choice (like supporting my flgs when it turns out that a codex supplement is direct order only) is extremely frustrating.
The problem is that a company trying to make money is failing at taking the money I want to give it for a product because of their poor business decisions.
This book should be on the shelves of at the very least every GW store out there let alone all game stores.
Swabby wrote: I suppose from an outside point of view this could look like a non issue, but playing an iyanden list and having games (large ones at that) that are upcoming (like tommorow) without having access to the now official rules to the army because I made a very ill informed choice (like supporting my flgs when it turns out that a codex supplement is direct order only) is extremely frustrating.
The problem is that a company trying to make money is failing at taking the money I want to give it for a product because of their poor business decisions.
This book should be on the shelves of at the very least every GW store out there let alone all game stores.
Why?
They're making it available online. Get over it and order one when they have them back in stock.
I personally think this supplement is priced far too highly for what it contains. But I am willing to admit that if GW published such a supplement for the armies that I am interested in, then I will gladly pay this price for more info to feast on.
If anyone actually buys every single book to keep up on all the rules in the game, then, yes, it sucks.
For those of us who have settled on 1-2 armies that we really enjoy the background and play-style of, this is a fantastic idea.
Swabby wrote: because I made a very ill informed choice
Seems like even you really know that this isn't GW's fault ...
How is not having enough supply to meet demand anyone but GWs fault? Also the ill informed part was trusting the information handed down by my local stores. Not one of them was aware it was direct order only.
It's the same issue they had with Death from the Skies. Not enough of the initial print run. Distributors are being told that more will be available "in the future", whatever that means.
Swabby wrote: How is not having enough supply to meet demand anyone but GWs fault? Also the ill informed part was trusting the information handed down by my local stores. Not one of them was aware it was direct order only.
Meeting demand is trickier than you appear to imagine.
Also, every LGS has an interest in assuming and letting costumers assume a product is not direct order.
As for me, I also figured I would buy it from a LGS. But I kept checking GW's site to make sure it wasn't direct order only.
So the difference between my Iyanden book being on its way to my house and yours not being available yet really has nothing to do with GW.
If my LGS (or other store) told me they could get something and allowed me to pre-order it I'd expect them to get it even if they had to pay retail from GW or go to eBay and pay even more otherwise I'd reconsider buying from them in the future
If they casually said sure we'll stick one aside if/when it arrives then I'd think damn, it's my own stupid fault I missed out, I should have made sure I knew whether it was direct or not
And just for the record the misinformation doesn't stop at the current situation. I called a GW local store that informed me that I could still order it off the website and have it delivered to them for pickup once I realized that the other local game stores were not actually going to be able to get it. Obviously this was more BS.
I am honestly taken aback that sone of you guys don't seem to have a problem that it is actually becoming frustratingly difficult to purchase through the local flgs.
As far as judging needed supply I have no sympathy for a company that has been around as long as GW if they don't know their customers enough to accurately predict trends. They if anyone in the miniature business should have enough of a clue to pull it off. Saying it is difficult is still a piss poor excuse for failure.
Swabby wrote: And just for the record the misinformation doesn't stop at the current situation. I called a GW local store that informed me that I could still order it off the website and have it delivered to them for pickup once I realized that the other local game stores were not actually going to be able to get it. Obviously this was more BS.
Yeah, you can do that with any available product. I had that option when I ordered my Iyanden book (or anything else I've ordered from GW over the last few years). Did said GW employee tell you that you could order an item that is not currently available? I mean, it sounds like some crossed wires here.
Swabby wrote: As far as judging needed supply I have no sympathy for a company that has been around as long as GW if they don't know their customers enough to accurately predict trends.
Well, let's just use you as an example. How is GW supposed to account for customers who claim to be really serious about getting a new book as soon as it is out but at the same time don't bother to actually investigate the product's release?
Manchu wrote:Yeah, you can do that with any available product. I had that option when I ordered my Iyanden book (or anything else I've ordered from GW over the last few years). Did said GW employee tell you that you could order an item that is not currently available? I mean, it sounds like some crossed wires here.
Yes I had a GW employee tell me to go to the website to order a product that was not available. So even their own people don't have a clue here.
How is GW supposed to account for customers who claim to be really serious about getting a new book as soon as it is out but at the same time don't bother to actually investigate the product's release?
I find your insinuation insulting. I am very serious about the hobby, enough so that I realize the FLGS needs to make
a buck to stay open. Normally companies keep game stores well informed about releases so they can sell their product. In this case my flgs as well as local GW employees were all equally in the dark. Normally I find that these folks have correct information and are trustworthy when it comes to selling a product. I spent plenty of time reading
various rumors about the product and not once did I see anything about it being direct order only.
They are a gaming company and should know their market well by now.
As far as going to their website being a measure of interest, why would you even bother when you theoretically know you are already getting a copy locally and it is just a glorified webstore? Not to mention other sites had more information on it.
Swabby wrote: Yes I had a GW employee tell me to go to the website to order a product that was not available. So even their own people don't have a clue here.
Wait, so you called GW, told them a product was no longer available on their website, and they told you it was available?
I didn't insinuate a thing. I said you are a customer who claims to want a product but at the same time doesn't closely follow its release. I'm not saying your claim is false. I'm just saying, this is the kind of customer behavior that makes demand hard to measure.
Swabby wrote: I realize the FLGS needs to make a buck to stay open.
Same here. Where we differ is that I also realized my LGS weren't going to have this product in stock. Somehow I knew, whereas neither you or folks at your LGS knew, that the Iyanden supplement was online only. And I can assure you, I only found out by checking GW's website before the supplement was released. That's nothing that you or the guys who own or work at your LGS couldn't do. I can understand you feeling like you didn't need to check because your LGS told you that you could buy it there. But if they told you that then they were making an unjustified assumption.
It sucks that your store thought they were getting a book and you got screwed out of ordering. The same thing happened to me with Death from the Skies sold out in an afternoon. I had wanted to buy from a FLGS, even though I don't play there. Just like to support them when I can.
Nothing to do now but wait or look on ebay, I'm afraid.
Fact of the matter is the supplement was listed on the price list the my FLGS recieved for the Eldar release. As of yesterday, my store had about 5 books waiting for the individuals that had preordered it to pick up. No extras at this time.
One thing to note is the store I frequent has a direct trade agreement with GW instead of going through a distributor. This can make all the difference in product availablity on short runs until they have another print run...
Manchu I was told on wednesday that my LGS was unable to order it yet and they didn't know what the hold up was, I then called three other game stores, which are all more than 50 miles from my location to check if they had a copy in stock. They all said the same thing, no and we dont know what is taking the distributor so long getting it to them.
(Edit: And yes I had it preordered with the flgs)
Mind you that is four stores all in the same profession all saying the same thing. So I broke down and called a GW store where I was told they didn't have a copy onhand but I could go to the website and they would get it to the store in 3 days or less if I ordered it.
And that is how I finally ended up on the website and thus learned that it is in fact unavailable, but also direct order only.
Swabby wrote: Manchu I was told on wednesday that my LGS was unable to order it
You mean two days ago? But the book was listed as direct only as soon as it was available for preorder.
Swabby wrote: called a GW store where I was told they didn't have a copy onhand but I could go to the website and they would get it to the store in 3 days or less if I ordered it.
And that employee is correct except that the book is now temporarily out of stock.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Swabby wrote: (Edit: And yes I had it preordered with the flgs)
So that's a problem with your LGS. Even if they thought they could get it in, they could have known this wasn't going to be the case before release and should have contacted you so that you could make other arrangements.
Well, I have a copy of the supplement and it is excellent.
Very good quality and is very good, but there are a couple of problems:
1: It's a Mat Ward book, (soz if already mentioned)
2: It's true, Wraithknight's can be warlords and the warlord traits are ridiculous.
But overall it is nasty and great if you want an Iyanden army, and a great way for GW to go as it may cost more money, but dang I could do a 600pt Iyanden army with a wraithknight as warlord!
Also, be wary, there is a 2+ "ward" save mentioned. Prob a special "Mat Ward" save.
Manchu wrote:So that's a problem with your LGS. Even if they thought they could get it in, they could have known this wasn't going to be the case before release and should have contacted you so that you could make other arrangements.
Four non GW game stores all had the exact same issue. This was not just my FLGS and the issue is more than just their fault. The GW guy didnt even know they were out, this is a communication issue on GWs part.
Yeah, like I already said, every LGS has an interest in assuming and having customers assume an upcoming product a customer wants will not be direct only. And, again, I also planned to get my copy from a LGS. But I followed the release closely and so even though the supplement turned out to be online only I still have a copy on its way to me.
So are you saying GW lied to the LGSs in your area? Are you saying that the GW employee lied to you?
About the GW employee, you should also take into account how much time passed between your conversation with him and when you accessed GW's website. Also, I'm not surprised that one of GW's brick and mortar people was not aware of the current remaining stock of a online only product. I would guess he only has the exact same resource as you to find out, i.e., the GW website.
All this lashing out at GW is beside the point. All you needed to do was check a website before the release date.
Manchu wrote:So that's a problem with your LGS. Even if they thought they could get it in, they could have known this wasn't going to be the case before release and should have contacted you so that you could make other arrangements.
Four non GW game stores all had the exact same issue. This was not just my FLGS and the issue is more than just their fault. The GW guy didnt even know they were out, this is a communication issue on GWs part.
That's funny. All of our LGSs knew that the Iyaden supplement would be online only and told us so when we made our ore orders.
Swabby wrote: How is not having enough supply to meet demand anyone but GWs fault? Also the ill informed part was trusting the information handed down by my local stores. Not one of them was aware it was direct order only.
Meeting demand is trickier than you appear to imagine.
Also, every LGS has an interest in assuming and letting costumers assume a product is not direct order.
As for me, I also figured I would buy it from a LGS. But I kept checking GW's site to make sure it wasn't direct order only.
So the difference between my Iyanden book being on its way to my house and yours not being available yet really has nothing to do with GW.
At this point I can't believe that the stock issues are anything other than either intentional or the result of huge incompetence.
Death From the Skies? Reasonable, that was a somewhat niche release and not a major book, it's understandable they had low stock.
I forget if the Daemons had stock issues, but then the Tau? Ehh it's a little strange they didn't see that level of demand coming, but still forgivable I guess.
The main Eldar release? Unacceptable. They've had several releases already where stock has been an issue and they did nothing to account for this fact. I preordered from Frontline and only just got my codex this morning, and my models are still MIA. They had to split shipments since they got in books but no models.
Now with the supplement, it's completely unreasonable to say they were taken by surprise at the volume of orders. They've had plenty of time to fire whoever was in charge of quantity of new releases and hire someone who can do the job, and they're having the same problems they were like half a year ago.
Don't confuse measuring demand with GW's increasingly cold policy toward the LGS. The issue of LGSs getting models is not what we're talking about here.
On one hand, we can ask whether GW made it clear to LGSs that the Iyanden supplement was direct only. So far we don't have enough info ITT to say.
On the other hand, we can ask how accurately GW can predict demand on a book like the Iyanden supplement. My main point here is, even if GW has a pretty good idea I don't think it's fair to hold them accountable for the frustration of people who specifically plan not to order online a product that is only available online.
And of course the original point is, it's a book that will probably be reprinted soon so just be patient.
Manchu wrote: Don't confuse measuring demand with GW's increasingly cold policy toward the LGS. The issue of LGSs getting models is not what we're talking about here.
Just remember that the 'cold policy' is bringing the US retailers inline with the British ones, who've been given the gakky end of the stick by GW for decades. It was all part of Kirby's tour of the colonies, to bring them to heel like he's done in the motherland.
"Fear will keep the local systems in line..." T.Kirby, to the US senior managers, on arrival at his fully operational battle bunker.
tdwg83 wrote:Fact of the matter is the supplement was listed on the price list the my FLGS recieved for the Eldar release. As of yesterday, my store had about 5 books waiting for the individuals that had preordered it to pick up. No extras at this time.
One thing to note is the store I frequent has a direct trade agreement with GW instead of going through a distributor. This can make all the difference in product availablity on short runs until they have another print run...
This. Both my LGS owners had copies, and both work directly with GW.
Manchu wrote:So that's a problem with your LGS. Even if they thought they could get it in, they could have known this wasn't going to be the case before release and should have contacted you so that you could make other arrangements.
Four non GW game stores all had the exact same issue. This was not just my FLGS and the issue is more than just their fault. The GW guy didnt even know they were out, this is a communication issue on GWs part.
That's funny. All of our LGSs knew that the Iyaden supplement would be online only and told us so when we made our ore orders.
Funny how that works.
This. There are just a few people blowing up about basically not making the decision to read that it would be Direct Only.
To the guy who ordered from Frontline: that may be on Frontline's distributor, not GW. I haven't encountered anyone who's had problems getting their Eldar. That's a bit of an oddity, and I hope you get your stuff soon!
MeanGreenStompa wrote: "Fear will keep the local systems in line..." T.Kirby, to the US senior managers, on arrival at his fully operational battle bunker.
It really is annoying to me, not so much that they couldnt meet demand, but that their employees seemed outright uninformed. At the local GW store the manager seemed pretty confident in the release and said he was sure that they would get some, but it ended up that they didn't receive any, even when people placed orders for it.
Since I play at a LGS more frequently and because I support it more. I ordered my copy there, but it still hasn't turned up. Either it is an issue with demand or GW cant communicate effectively with its other branches (let alone independent game stores) and now they are shooting themselves in the foot with poor planing.
If the problem was with GW, then it is more likely that all LGSs would have thought they were getting the books. Since some did and some did not, it seems more likely the problem is with the LGSs that were incorrect. Unless you are assuming that GW told LGSs different things. While that's not impossible, it's not the simplest explanation. And again, it's not like a LGS has no interest in assuming they can sell you a product especially when they know they can blame GW for a flawed assumption and certain customers are apparently eager to buy into such explanations.
Anyway, I did receive my copy today (technically yesterday) and IMO it will be worth the wait for you guys if you're into Iyanden fluff. From what I've read so far, it's pretty engaging. It fleshes them out a lot, listing background material and heraldry for various houses of Iyanden among other things.
Glad to hear you enjoy the extra background material. I like how wraith constructs from different houses don't tend to get along with each other. Eldar: even in death our arrogance is strong.
Manchu wrote: If the problem was with GW, then it is more likely that all LGSs would have thought they were getting the books. Since some did and some did not, it seems more likely the problem is with the LGSs that were incorrect. Unless you are assuming that GW told LGSs different things. While that's not impossible, it's not the simplest explanation. And again, it's not like a LGS has no interest in assuming they can sell you a product especially when they know they can blame GW for a flawed assumption and certain customers are apparently eager to buy into such explanations.
Anyway, I did receive my copy today (technically yesterday) and IMO it will be worth the wait for you guys if you're into Iyanden fluff. From what I've read so far, it's pretty engaging. It fleshes them out a lot, listing background material and heraldry for various houses of Iyanden among other things.
I am willing to bet that GW just didnt tell anyone anything about their web exclusive and considering the proximity to the other eldar codex which was not a web exclusive everyone probably thought that book was coming as well. I realize you are swinging responsibility at the game stores but really no matter what it is a result of GWs shoddy business practices. This web exclusive stuff is junk, even moreso than the supply issues.
Manchu wrote: If the problem was with GW, then it is more likely that all LGSs would have thought they were getting the books. Since some did and some did not, it seems more likely the problem is with the LGSs that were incorrect. Unless you are assuming that GW told LGSs different things. While that's not impossible, it's not the simplest explanation. And again, it's not like a LGS has no interest in assuming they can sell you a product especially when they know they can blame GW for a flawed assumption and certain customers are apparently eager to buy into such explanations.
Anyway, I did receive my copy today (technically yesterday) and IMO it will be worth the wait for you guys if you're into Iyanden fluff. From what I've read so far, it's pretty engaging. It fleshes them out a lot, listing background material and heraldry for various houses of Iyanden among other things.
I am willing to bet that GW just didnt tell anyone anything about their web exclusive and considering the proximity to the other eldar codex which was not a web exclusive everyone probably thought that book was coming as well. I realize you are swinging responsibility at the game stores but really no matter what it is a result of GWs shoddy business practices. This web exclusive stuff is junk, even moreso than the supply issues.
Again, you're simply wrong. All three of the LGSs in my are that regularly have GW preorders knew they wouldn't be able to get these books through their normal distribution means. They were able to order them direct for customers, just like you could online, but thy were knew during preorders they couldn't get they Iyaden book.
Manchu wrote: If the problem was with GW, then it is more likely that all LGSs would have thought they were getting the books. Since some did and some did not, it seems more likely the problem is with the LGSs that were incorrect. Unless you are assuming that GW told LGSs different things. While that's not impossible, it's not the simplest explanation. And again, it's not like a LGS has no interest in assuming they can sell you a product especially when they know they can blame GW for a flawed assumption and certain customers are apparently eager to buy into such explanations.
Anyway, I did receive my copy today (technically yesterday) and IMO it will be worth the wait for you guys if you're into Iyanden fluff. From what I've read so far, it's pretty engaging. It fleshes them out a lot, listing background material and heraldry for various houses of Iyanden among other things.
Except, like all things Mat Ward touches, they destroyed the fluff/background. He's terrible. Seeing as GW is so protective of their IP and "lore", I can't believe they let that hack anywhere near it. Also $60(Can) for 2 pages of rules is ridiculous, to say the least. If this is the future for codexes to have these supplements, I am curious how many people will be willing to shell out $120(Can) for books to run an army. And I thought paying $60 for a codex was bad....
Not every one is in it just for the gaming rules. Some people actually like reading new background - Why dont you complain the Horus Heresy Books Black Library have no rules?
Aeon wrote: Not every one is in it just for the gaming rules. Some people actually like reading new background - Why dont you complain the Horus Heresy Books Black Library have no rules?
They aren't being sold as a RULES supplement, are they?
Aeon wrote: Not every one is in it just for the gaming rules. Some people actually like reading new background - Why dont you complain the Horus Heresy Books Black Library have no rules?
They aren't being sold as a RULES supplement, are they?
Technically It's a suppliment to Codex: Eldar. Supplimenting both the rules and the fluff.
Codex Eldar has 16 pages general fluff on Eldar, Codex Iyanden has 27 pages just on Iyanden!
I have only read a quarter of it yet, but I must say it is good.
Either Mat Ward has improved and listened to feedback, or Jes Goodwin wrote another Eldar background without being credited for it.
Concerning rules: Most pages with rules are scenarios for standard and non-standard games, but I haven't read them yet.
Kroothawk wrote: Codex Eldar has 16 pages general fluff on Eldar, Codex Iyanden has 27 pages just on Iyanden!
I have only read a quarter of it yet, but I must say it is good.
Either Mat Ward has improved and listened to feedback,
Kroothawk wrote: Codex Eldar has 16 pages general fluff on Eldar, Codex Iyanden has 27 pages just on Iyanden!
I have only read a quarter of it yet, but I must say it is good.
I agree, I think it builds upon the existing background very well and definately gives Iyanden a unique feel and place in the 40k universe.
I would like more rules.. but the missions -- typo ( ? I think ) aside seem fun.. not sure of the replay value of some of them.
Very reminiscent of the battle missions ones or the ones they published in WD alongside the SW and BA releases.
Mat Wards fluff works (as it always does) because he puts the individuals (heroes, villains, whatever) front and centre.
Mat Wards tells you the story of Iyanden by telling you the story of the fights, noble deeds, petty feuds, triumphs and defeats of a set of characters... Yriel, Farseer Kelmon, Iyanna Arienal, etc..
It's the same reason the Horus Heresy is such a fan-favourite (and so much better than "the great Space Marine civil war"). It tells incisive "historic" events through the trials and decisions of individuals, larger-than-life-perhaps, but relateable.
That is something the other writers, first among them Phail Kelly with his mind-numbingly dull "history-book-style" of writing have yet to realize.
That is why Ward is the best Codex writer when it comes to fluff. Always has been; (most likely) always will be.
Zweischneid wrote: Mat Wards fluff works (as it always does) because he puts the individuals (heroes, villains, whatever) front and centre.
Mat Wards tells you the story of Iyanden by telling you the story of the fights, noble deeds, petty feuds, triumphs and defeats of a set of characters... Yriel, Farseer Kelmon, Iyanna Arienal, etc..
It's the same reason the Horus Heresy is such a fan-favourite (and so much better than "the great Space Marine civil war"). It tells incisive "historic" events through the trials and decisions of individuals, larger-than-life-perhaps, but relateable.
That is something the other writers, first among them Phail Kelly with his mind-numbingly dull "history-book-style" of writing have yet to realize.
That is why Ward is the best Codex writer when it comes to fluff. Always has been; (most likely) always will be.
I just threw up in my mouth a little. I couldn't disagree more. Phil Kelly's books actually give a sweeping view of the army and race in question. Mat Ward makes up nonsense and hammers the same three notes over and over. No contest, Phil Kelly is the superior writer.
For the people reacting positively to the fluff in this new book, how much of a problem do you have with the retcon of Iyanden's preparations or lack thereof for the tyranid invasion?
ph34r wrote: For the people reacting positively to the fluff in this new book, how much of a problem do you have with the retcon of Iyanden's preparations or lack thereof for the tyranid invasion?
What ret-con. The 4th Edition book basically says Iyanden got licked by the Nids because they were slow-pokes who couldn't fly their ship out of the way fast enough.
The new Iyanden book expands upon this and actually - for the first time - provides a reason why they lingered.
Eldar Codex 4th (Phil Kelly) wrote:
Once the largest and most populous of the craftworlds, Iyanden has been reduced to a shadow of its former glory in a bitter war with the Tyranid race. It was an attack by the Tyranid hive fleet known as Kraken that rang the death knell for the craftworld. Iyanden was too slow to outrun the Tyranid invasion and was all but destroyed. Thousands upon thousands of its warriors fell in battle against the Great Devourer. On the verge of utter defeat, Iyanden was saved from extermination by the return of Prince Yriel and his Eldritch Raiders.
Eldar Codex 6th (Phil Kelly) wrote:
Once the largest and most populous of all the craftworlds, Iyanden has been reduced to a shadow of its former glory in a bitter war with the Tyranids. Thousands upon thousands of its noble warriors fell in battle against the Great Devourer. On the verge of utter defeat, Iyanden was saved from extermination by the return of Prince Yriel and his Eldritch Raiders.
Codex Iyanden (Mat Ward) wrote:
Whilst Ethrael delayed the Tyranids as best he could, Kelmon called together the Eldar of Iyanden in the Place of Answering and warned them of the impending Tyranid assault. Too many errors of judgement, he deemed, lay on the path behind him. [...]
He had cast the runes again and again, and always the runes for pride, doom and salvation spiralled about Asuryan. The pride, he at last perceived, was his and his alone. Better that Iyanden move with one will and one mind in its darkest hour. [...]
So it was that Kelmon, in his moment of self-doubt, compounded Iyanden's danger a hundredfold. [...]
From the bridge of the Flame of Asuryan, Yriel looked upon the ruin of Iyanden and knew only anger; at Kelmon for not contacting him sooner and at Ethrael for his failure to protect the craftworld, but the better part of his rage Yriel spared only for himself. He should have been here; he would have been here but for the monstrous pride that had driven him away. [...]
Like the burning spear of Khaine, Yriel's forces tore through Hive Fleet Kraken's blockade and ripped the heart out of the attacking swarm.
Sorry dude but Phil Kelly is the better writer by far. Ward might give more fluff but that does not make up for his repetitious mind numbing names. Ward might have the upper hand writing short story's but a codex should be an overview of the race and game mechanics. I need a text book not the Tales of the super awesome Yriel and his burning spear.
Zweischneid wrote: Mat Wards fluff works (as it always does) because he puts the individuals (heroes, villains, whatever) front and centre.
*SNIP*
That is why Ward is the best Codex writer when it comes to fluff. Always has been; (most likely) always will be.
Wow... ok... that one comes off my list of stuff I never thought I'd read... right under "wind tunnel lemartes and pumbagore are my favorite models!". I don't particularly have an issue with his fluff but rather view it at geared towards exciting 12 year olds with over the top even for 40k tales in order for them to get the proper $25 finecast miniature. It works for its stated purpose but I personally find it about as exciting and well written as a power rangers episode script.
Automatically Appended Next Post: @Panic:
Interesting.. thanks for posting the 40k stuff on the android market place. I'll have to take a peek at that on my kindle tonight. I suspect it may be cheaper on android simply because there tends to be more piracy on android (although it exists in droves on both).
Manchu wrote: Anyway, I did receive my copy today (technically yesterday) and IMO it will be worth the wait for you guys if you're into Iyanden fluff. From what I've read so far, it's pretty engaging. It fleshes them out a lot, listing background material and heraldry for various houses of Iyanden among other things.
Except, like all things Mat Ward touches, they destroyed the fluff/background.
Nah, the fluff in the Iyanden book is quite enjoyable.
And it's cheaper that iBooks and Hardback.
Panic...
The humorous thing is that the description on BL's website is that this ebook format is great on iPads Perhaps the 10 GBP price bump is Apple's cut?
Considering Apple takes 30% it seems likely, no?
It does seem likely, and I had no experience with Apple's cut considering 37 seconds elapsed between my post and the post before mine in which Apple's cut was revealed. I don't deal with iBook, and try not to deal with the iTunes store (except to grab podcasts), so I had no idea what Apple's cut was until 5 seconds after I posted my post, and saw the post that occurred 42 seconds prior to me reading it...
I must admit after reading the Iyanden supplement that I was pleasantly surprised as it was far better than I had been dreading after finding out Ward had been writing the fluff. It is much better than expected though there are still some flaws and points of critique.
There are elements in the timeline that actually are in reference to events and timelines in the Tau Codex and Tyranid Codex. The dates even match upon checking. There are some attempts to touch up and explain the bits of Eldar defeats that have appeared in other codices like the Tyranid Codex and the main rulebook such as Idharae Craftworld falling to a single Space Marine chapter. For example, though the Avatar still falls to a dozen Carnifexes when Kraken attacks, it takes out 3 of them first. Idharae Craftworld is also described as suffering grievous losses in defeating Hive Fleet Naga, presumably explaining why then it could be destroyed later.
The preparations on Iyanden for the assault are partially lifted from the old Doom of the Eldar game, and the Eldar always only had a few weeks to prepare before Kraken hit. Farseer Kelmon (a character from many years ago) is given significant limelight though he comes off as a bit of a caricature in the cardboard "intolerant conservative old man" role. A pity they didn't deal with the other Iyanden character from ages ago, Warlock Karhedron (from the 2nd edition Epic and 2nd edition Eldar Codex days). It is also a pity that the bit from Maugan Ra's WD article from the Eye of Terror campaign days was not integrated (Maugan Ra was written to have arrived on Iyanden in 992.M41 with a bodyguard of 100 Dark Reapers and to have fought in the battle against Kraken). It is also unfortunate that there was no reference to Kelmon's successful prediction (as depicted in 2nd edition Epic and the 2nd edition Codex Imperialis) leading ultimately to a battle between Iyanden and a Keeper of Secrets that saw the Avatar defeat the Keeper of Secrets.
There is also a nugget of information relating to the Shining Spears, namely the name of their Phoenix Lord: Drastanta, the Tempest of Starlight along with the weapon of this Phoenix Lord.
The introduction of all these Houses and retconning of Iyanden to be one of the first Craftworlds to leave the Empire I'm neutral on. On one hand it allows for more variety in Eldar background, but some of the houses are rather stereotypical with some names rather poorly chosen (House of Divinesh that spends its time scrying ). It also leaves open the issue then of why Iyanden isn't looked down upon by other Craftworlds for being barbaric since that is how Saim-hann is treated and it is also described as one of the first Craftworlds to leave the old Eldar empire.
As for the flaws, there are several but not extremely rage worthy. First off is the stylistic wording. Ward uses certain turns of phrases excessively in an attempt to sound epic such as "ever was blah blah" or "they had ever been..." but it is noticeable and repetitive. The second point is that Ward doesn't really give much screen time to Iyanden's glory days which I think should have had more dealt with considering that Iyanden's tale is said in the supplement to parallel the Eldar empire and Fall. The alliance with Biel-Tan has some discrepancies considering that the alliance was described to have faded by about M34 yet Biel-Tan also is shown aiding and cooperating heavily with Iyanden in M41. There are also some scale discrepancies with the size of Yriel and Iyanden's fleet. Yriel's Eldritch Raiders have in the past been described as one of the largest and most successful corsair bands, yet is shown in the supplement to have about 100 ships. This conflicts with Imperial Armour 12 which says the Void Dragon corsair band is estimated to have 3,500 ships. The artwork for Yriel's flagship Flame of Asuryan is also a discrepancy since it shows a BFG Void Stalker battleship as opposed to the BFGFlame of Asuryan ship which had an actual model. The other narrative flaw spotted is the lack of explanation for Yriel's willingness to launch boarding actions against targets that are going to be destroyed anyway, such as when he boards the Chaos flagship to duel with the Chaos Lord instead of just blasting the flagship (which was what he had done in an earlier battle to an earlier Chaos flagship). I suppose this could be chalked up to GW and Ward's desire to play up "heroic fights" between the leaders rather than the more abstract at a distance death of starship combat.
Overall it seems that Ward at least did some research of existing background instead of running completely roughshod over whatever came before. He also at least appears to try to balance things out from before by showing the Eldar handing out several defeats to Space Marines. While some might say the rules and crunch are light, those would be eventually obsoleted by the next edition anyway. The bulk of the book is fluff background and that is a good thing considering the entirety of background for most Craftworlds was little more than a paragraph before the Craftworld Eldar Codex in 3rd edition, and even then that only made things 1 page per Craftworld.
Honestly I think you can explain the BFG and Epic descrepency by the fact GW has abandoned those systems and are slowly moving, rewriting, and retconning away the associated fluff. I mean the 13th black crusade has not happened in the current timespace.
Also I think the boarding action against the Chaos Lord by Yriel is easily understood by him being one cocky SOB and having his head where the sun don't shine.
The Maugan Ra fluff that would have been nice to include was describing his aid to Iyanden when it was attacked by Hive Fleet Kraken. The WD article was during the Eye of Terror campaign but it described Maugan Ra's past actions.
It would have been nice for the supplement to waste less page space on photos of Eldar units we have seen already in the main Codex in favor of more fluff.
I've just finished reading most of it, and I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised and pleased. The fluff was welcome as the main codex was somewhat fluff-light. It also bodes well for further Craftworld supplements (which I would have little or no hesitation in buying after this), I think a Saim-Hann one in particular would be a blast.
battlematt wrote: Sorry dude but Phil Kelly is the better writer by far. Ward might give more fluff but that does not make up for his repetitious mind numbing names.
Wolf McWolfson called and wondered if you'd forgotten him. Seriously, no one can one-up Phil Kelly in the "silly names" department.
I was a bit dissapointed at what I saw in the game store copy. For the money it costs, there seems only about two pages of mechanics and items with the rest being fluff.
About a half hour with the book gives someone all they need to create and run an Iyanden force.
That is why Ward is the best Codex writer when it comes to fluff. Always has been; (most likely) always will be.
Seeing as how I kinda like Sisters of Battle, and knowing how Ward has treated them in his fluff, I feel obliged to disagree with you and insist that Ward is a misogynistic prick and needs to stop writing books.
Anyway, I noticed Codex: Iyanden still isn't available on GW's website. Was it seriously a limited release? What's the point of doing that?
That is why Ward is the best Codex writer when it comes to fluff. Always has been; (most likely) always will be.
Seeing as how I kinda like Sisters of Battle, and knowing how Ward has treated them in his fluff, I feel obliged to disagree with you and insist that Ward is a misogynistic prick and needs to stop writing books.
Just sayin', he wrote the fluff in Codex: Sisters of Battle, which isn't complete bull.
On a second note, how is he misogynistic? If you're referring to the Bloodtide part, the concept of virgin sacrifices giving supernatural powers is one of the oldest tropes in history.
That is why Ward is the best Codex writer when it comes to fluff. Always has been; (most likely) always will be.
Seeing as how I kinda like Sisters of Battle, and knowing how Ward has treated them in his fluff, I feel obliged to disagree with you and insist that Ward is a misogynistic prick and needs to stop writing books.
How did Ward ever "treat" Sisters in the fluff that is different from .. for example ... Kelly's "treatment" of them in ... for example ... the Space Wolves Codex?
And as Almighty Walrus notes (assuming you're talking Bloodtide), Ward at least made the effort to cast a story in historic/mythological concepts, where's Kelly just went "rawr, No Sista's on Fenris, let's slaughter the peacefully visiting representatives of the Imperium before they realize what's happenin'".
I don't much like that bit of fluff in the SW codex, either, but at least with the Space Wolves it's not entirely unexpected. They're the most divergent of all the Space Marine chapters and have a reputation for being the most savage, barbaric, wild, etc. and they're also the most likely to give the finger to the Imperium's bureaucracy. If you're talking about what I think you are then it was the Ecclesiarchy that showed up first, which if I'm not mistaken is just the general church of the Imperium, not specifically the Sisters which are their military arm. The Space Wolves owe allegiance to the Emperor and don't much care for the High Lords of Terra that rule in his stead, and expectedly told them to feth off when they came poking their noses around. After that they came back, this time with three orders of Sisters, and it doesn't really go into too much detail, it just says war raged on for a few weeks before the Ecclesiarchy gave up and left them be.
Like I said, I'm not much a fan of Phil Kelly anyway, and that whole bit just comes off as being really stupid, even if they are the Space Wolves, but it's not exactly comparable to Mat Ward's going into grisly detail about how the Grey Knights slaughtered each and every one of the innocent Sisters that were still loyal to the Emperor and anointed themselves with their blood. It's also even more fethed up because it's the Grey Knights doing this: "incorruptible", the "purest of the pure", the ones who were charged with defending humanity from the threat of daemons, not mowing them down and using their flesh and blood as a tool so they can kill daemons harder. And you can praise him for finding inspiration in mythological concepts or whatever, but it doesn't make a whole lot of fething sense in this context because the Grey Knights are already supposed to have plenty of protection against corruption, in their minds, bodies, and the armor and weapons they bring to bear. If any of those protective wards and what have you were worth a single damn they should have been just fine against the Bloodtide. People have tried to justify it but I still maintain that their sacrifice was completely unnecessary, and it comes off more as Mat just wanting to make Sisters look weak, and eventually make martyrs out of them, to make the Grey Knights look even better. It honestly would have been better if he just had the Sisters killed "off-camera" and wrote that only the Grey Knights could save the planet in the end, since that's what he was ultimately trying to get across anyway, but the way he did it just rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, myself included.
But yeah, that's just me. I don't like his fluff, though honestly I can't judge his newest work since Iyanden is sold out, and I don't know if I'd be willing to gamble $50 on it anyway.
Sidstyler wrote: I don't much like that bit of fluff in the SW codex, either, but at least with the Space Wolves it's not entirely unexpected. They're the most divergent of all the Space Marine chapters and have a reputation for being the most savage, barbaric, wild, etc. and they're also the most likely to give the finger to the Imperium's bureaucracy.
Wait, so Grey Knights (and Inquisition) using a bloody "the-ends-justify-the-means" approach to ... well .. stopping a massive Daemonic Incursion is wrong, but Space Wolves slaughtering other servants of the Imperium, unprovoked I might add, because, hey, they've always been the slightly rebellious ones is "not entirely unexpected"?
Really?
I know Space Wolves are often a bit rebellious, but going all-out World Eaters on thousands of dutiful Imperial servants without any good reason whatsoever is going a bit beyond that. It sits rather badly with established 40K lore in ways that Grey Knights doing "whatever's necessary" in a suitably grimdark manner to, at least, actually fight Daemons, is not. Not by a long shot.
Hell, just one page or so before the Wolves slaughter Sisters for daring to fly too close to Fenris, they've invited a large entourage of Eldar to have a feast with them in their large hall of Fenris!
Sidstyler wrote: People have tried to justify it but I still maintain that their sacrifice was completely unnecessary, and it comes off more as Mat just wanting to make Sisters look weak, and eventually make martyrs out of them, to make the Grey Knights look even better. It honestly would have been better if he just had the Sisters killed "off-camera" and wrote that only the Grey Knights could save the planet in the end, since that's what he was ultimately trying to get across anyway, but the way he did it just rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, myself included.
I'll play along and post the obligatory "spiritual corruption =/= physical corruption" post here.
I'll play along and post the obligatory "spiritual corruption =/= physical corruption" post here.
Neither actually.
Grey Knights are not "incorruptible" like some sort of magic "get-out-of-jail-free" card that makes any and all corruption bypass them without effect.
The Grey Knight Codex is quite explicit that many, infact most "almost-finished-Grey-Knights" don't pass the final test of the Ritual of Detestation, which tempts them with corruption.
The exact wording the Codex uses is: "In all the Chapter's long history, no Grey Knight has ever fallen to the lure of Chaos, and none shall do so now."
That doesn't preclude that the first Grey Knight may well fall to Chaos "tomorrow". The Bloodtide, over and above the actual event, is an important part of the fluff because it shows you why Grey Knights have so far avoided corruption. It shows the extreme lengths they are willing to go to in order to avoid corruption. That is why they are considered "incorruptible".
Without their extreme vigilance and willingness to avoid corruption at whatever it takes, Grey Knights aren't, per se, any more or less corruptible than anyone else in 40K.
Grey Knights are only "incorruptible" in the way that the 1972 Miami Dolphins were "unbeatable". Doesn't mean they didn't have to put in the effort.
Zweischneid wrote: I know Space Wolves are often a bit rebellious, but going all-out World Eaters on thousands of dutiful Imperial servants without any good reason whatsoever is going a bit beyond that.
Which is why I said it was a stupid bit of fluff, too. I dunno, maybe it just doesn't bother me as much because I've never been a very big fan of Space Wolves, or Space Marines in general. There's only one chapter I really like and I don't like them enough to build an army of them.
Speaking of going World Eaters, I'm pretty sure the Flesh Tearers did that very thing in Mat Ward's Blood Angels codex, tearing apart a bunch of Sisters in a blind frenzy when they ran out of enemies, so let's not pretend that when Mat does it it's always an "ends justify the means" approach. I understand they were supposed to have lost control and just started mindlessly killing everything but that's not necessarily a "good" reason, and I don't remember there being any consequence for it, either. I don't have the BA codex anymore but I think I'm remembering that right, anyway.
I don't know if I can properly explain why the Bloodtide fluff bothers me more than Phil's equally stupid "Ecclesiarchy comes to Fenris", but it just does. It's not necessarily because I'm biased, because I do think Mat Ward is better at writing rules than Phil Kelly...even though he has a bad habit of accidentally breaking the game now and then.
Zweischneid wrote:Hell, just one page or so before the Wolves slaughter Sisters for daring to fly too close to Fenris, they've invited a large entourage of Eldar to have a feast with them in their large hall of Fenris!
Maybe neither one should be allowed to write books anymore, actually.
They didn't kill the Sisters at Armageddon, they killed the Militia they were fighting alongside. The Sisters fell back and reported the Flesh Tearers to the Inquisition. That piece of fluff predates Ward's 5th edition Codex, so you can't exactly blame that on him.
Maybe neither one should be allowed to write books anymore, actually.
Kelly? Perhaps.
Ward? I don't see why he shouldn't. Quite the opposite, reading Iyanden (and before that Necrons, etc..), he's probably among the very few that should.
Sidstyler wrote: I don't much like that bit of fluff in the SW codex, either, but at least with the Space Wolves it's not entirely unexpected. They're the most divergent of all the Space Marine chapters and have a reputation for being the most savage, barbaric, wild, etc. and they're also the most likely to give the finger to the Imperium's bureaucracy.
Wait, so Grey Knights (and Inquisition) using a bloody "the-ends-justify-the-means" approach to ... well .. stopping a massive Daemonic Incursion is wrong, but Space Wolves slaughtering other servants of the Imperium, unprovoked I might add, because, hey, they've always been the slightly rebellious ones is "not entirely unexpected"?
Really?
I know Space Wolves are often a bit rebellious, but going all-out World Eaters on thousands of dutiful Imperial servants without any good reason whatsoever is going a bit beyond that. It sits rather badly with established 40K lore in ways that Grey Knights doing "whatever's necessary" in a suitably grimdark manner to, at least, actually fight Daemons, is not. Not by a long shot.
Hell, just one page or so before the Wolves slaughter Sisters for daring to fly too close to Fenris, they've invited a large entourage of Eldar to have a feast with them in their large hall of Fenris!
But WAAAARRRRD! didn't write that. Try to keep up Z
Please feel free to start threads about Space Wolves, Grey Knights and SoB, etc. and discuss the various Fluff Implications of their interactions there.
