Codex: Iyanden will be released in printed and digital version. The latter is on preorder now. The printed normal and limited version will be released 15th June, mail order only. 500 copies of the limited version, the other is not limited.
Codex: Iyanden
From Dan Harden, White Dwarf Daily
The children of Asuryan are truly blessed, for today the iPad Edition of Codex: Iyanden goes on pre-order. As the first supplemental Codex for Warhammer 40,000, this is a very exciting time to be a hobbyist.
As mentioned in the video, Codex: Iyanden will be available in three formats - a lavish full-colour hardback book, an even more exotic limited edition version and the Digital Edition for iPad and iPad mini. All three feature new, never-before-seen artwork, full-colour miniatures galleries (including 360º images in the digital version) packed with dozens of miniatures painted in the colours of Craftworld Iyanden, a hefty 32 pages of background about the Craftworld and its people, a detailed timeline of important events, colour schemes and iconography for the different Ghost Warrior houses and much more besides. If you're a hobbyist that loves to immerse yourself in the lore of Warhammer 40,000 then this book is definitely for you.
Codex: Iyanden also features a host of new rules which, when combined with the army list in Codex: Eldar, allow you to create a dedicated Iyanden-themed collection. Using the rules in Codex Iyanden allows you, for example, to take a Wraithknight as your Warlord. If that's not a fearsome prospect for your opponents to face then I don't know what is. There are also Iyanden-specific Warlord traits and the option to take a council of Spiritseers, plus three new battle missions and five scenarios to fight with your army. There are even stratagems for Cities of Death and Planetstrike for you to use on an unsuspecting enemy.
As explained in the video, the digital edition of Codex: Iyanden is available to pre-order now from the Apple iBookstore. The two hardback paper versions will be available to order from the Games Workshop website on 15th June, though there are only 500 copies of the Limited Edition version available, so you'll have to order yours quickly if you want one.
dangermouse425 wrote: Information from the video - it's all on the public domain so legally fair game? Mods, let me know if this is breaking any rules, but I've only typed up what's in the video for all to see.
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Wargear:
Celestial Lance - 35pts
This crystal lance was once borne by Drastanta, Tempest of Starlight and Phoenix Lord of the Shining Spears. Alas, Drastanta was ever over-proud and much given to needless lone battles. Drastanta came late to Asurmen's final stand and found his mentor already fallen before the foul might of the Keeper of Secrets N'kari. Keening with rage and sorrow, Drastanta slew the Daemon, the energies of the lance shattering the creature's vile spirit. Drastanta emerged from the fires of Asure where his mentor had not, but he soon vanished into the tumult of the war-torn galaxy. In the centuries since his final recorded battle, the Celestial Lance has passed from shrine to shrine and craftworld to craftworld, the better to keep alive the tales...
The Wraithforge Stone - 30pts
This was once the waystone of the long dead Bonesinger Ivaril Brightshard. It was Ivaril who aided Mehlendri Silversoul in adapting the infinity circuit into a soul reservoir, and Iyanden has never known a more skilled shaper than he. Ivaril's soul has long since departed into the infinity circuit, but legend tells that the echo of it remains in the Wraithforge Stone and allows its bearer to manipulate wraithbone into new forms just as Ivavril once did.
During each of your Movement phases, nominate a single Wraithlord or Wraithknight within 6" of the bearer and roll a D6. On a roll of a 1 or 2 nothing happens. On a...
Warlords - When choosing an Iyanden army, you can choose one Wraithlord or Wraithknight to be your Warlord, even though it is not an HQ choice.
Shadow Council - Iyanden army may take up to 5 Spirit Seers as a single HQ choice, rather than 1.
Gifts of Asuryan - Any character in your army that may select Remants of Glory, may instead select from Gifts of Asuryan presented opposite, as the points cost shown. A character cannot choose items from both lists. Note the Wraithforge Stone and Guardian Helm of Xallathon do not replace a weapon.
Spiritseer Psychic Powers - Any Iyanden Spiritseer that generates his psychic powers from the Runes of Battle discipline treats Voice of Twilight (see below) as their Primaris Power, rather than Conceal/Reveal
Warlord Traits - An Iyanden Warlord may roll on the Warlord Traits table presented here, instead of those in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook or Codex: Eldar.
1 A Hero For Ages Past and Future - This is a soul of peerless lineage, its every deed a redoubled echo of forebears long dead.
Roll a D3; the Warlord can make this many re-rolls over the course of the game. These re-rolls can be used for To Hit rolls, To Wound rolls, Armour Penetration rolls and saving throws.
As much as I like the new Eldar book I feel it should have been called Codex: Fleece your Players. 70$ for 10 avengers and now 100$ to play Iyanden (as you need the main book which costs the same amount oddly enough!)
Well that at least answers the questions about rules. They'll be selling a lot more of these for other codex's, because everyone that plays Eldar will feel obligated to buy it, just for the new army building rules.
I'm not completely against this idea, but I am against the rumored price. A supplement, that technically is not required to play, that is the same price as the main codex, seems aggregious, and a simple hope at at money grab. I hope I'm proven wrong, and the actual price is around the $20-30 range, rather than ~$50 as rumors have said.
One thing that bugged me from the ipad version of the main codex(dunno about the printed one) is that they didn't show any models from the ulthwé craftworld except for farseers. I'm hoping they do a Ulthwé codex and brings cool stuff for our guardians and farseers
@ashikenshin - That Codex: Ultramarines you wanted? It's called Codex: Space Marines...you know, just in case you didn't notice that there are more Ultramarine special characters in the book than any other Chapter.
shade1313 wrote: Goodness. The blurb on the new rules do look very interesting. It appears to have a lot more to offer in shifting army comp than we'd expected.
Agreed. It looks like it's going to have more meat on it than any other supplement GW has released this edition *cough* Crusade of Fire *cough* but I'm still not sure that $50 is the right price point.
Yeah, it's overpriced. So are the main Codices. So is much of the product line.
The question is, how well does it sell? This feels very much like a test book, to get a feel for whether they ought to do sublists again. And I'm very much afraid that if they don't decide to pursue this method, they'll take the option of simply not bothering with helping people play specific cult/craftworld/minor chapter lists at all, rather than what most of us would rather see, which is having the options in the main codex to start with.
I don't know, I think that $50 is a pretty fair price for a hard back, full color, 100+ pages worth of Codex. It's actually cheaper than most similarly produced "coffee table" art books. Some of their model kits on the other hand are horribly overpriced.
alienvalentine wrote: I don't know, I think that $50 is a pretty fair price for a hard back, full color, 100+ pages worth of Codex. It's actually cheaper than most similarly produced "coffee table" art books. Some of their model kits on the other hand are horribly overpriced.
I'd agree if it wasn't for the need to get Codex: Eldar as well... If I only needed one of these books to play my craftworld of choice (gimme, gimme, gimme Saim-hann!) then I'd totally agree!
I have updated the Eldar background thread in the Background forum with the new information from the previews. It seems a decent amount of new stuff though I spotted some copy/paste. Oh and it reveals the Phoenix Lord of the Shining Spears to be Drastanta, Tempest of Starlight, who wielded the Celestial Lance. Apparently though Drastanta has disappeared and the weapon has been passed on from shrine to shrine and craftworld to craftworld.
It appears it is to be the first in a series of supplements. This bodes well for other factions.
There appears to be a new Warlord Trait chart, and a new primaris psychic power for Spiritseers to take if they choose Runes of Battle.
Spiritseers apparently can be fielded in a council of 5.
Information from the video - it's all on the public domain so legally fair game? Mods, let me know if this is breaking any rules, but I've only typed up what's in the video for all to see.
---
Wargear:
Celestial Lance - 35pts
This crystal lance was once borne by Drastanta, Tempest of Starlight and Phoenix Lord of the Shining Spears. Alas, Drastanta was ever over-proud and much given to needless lone battles. Drastanta came late to Asurmen's final stand and found his mentor already fallen before the foul might of the Keeper of Secrets N'kari. Keening with rage and sorrow, Drastanta slew the Daemon, the energies of the lance shattering the creature's vile spirit. Drastanta emerged from the fires of Asure where his mentor had not, but he soon vanished into the tumult of the war-torn galaxy. In the centuries since his final recorded battle, the Celestial Lance has passed from shrine to shrine and craftworld to craftworld, the better to keep alive the tales...
The Wraithforge Stone - 30pts
This was once the waystone of the long dead Bonesinger Ivaril Brightshard. It was Ivaril who aided Mehlendri Silversoul in adapting the infinity circuit into a soul reservoir, and Iyanden has never known a more skilled shaper than he. Ivaril's soul has long since departed into the infinity circuit, but legend tells that the echo of it remains in the Wraithforge Stone and allows its bearer to manipulate wraithbone into new forms just as Ivavril once did.
During each of your Movement phases, nominate a single Wraithlord or Wraithknight within 6" of the bearer and roll a D6. On a roll of a 1 or 2 nothing happens. On a...
Warlords - When choosing an Iyanden army, you can choose one Wraithlord or Wraithknight to be your Warlord, even though it is not an HQ choice.
Shadow Council - Iyanden army may take up to 5 Spirit Seers as a single HQ choice, rather than 1.
Gifts of Asuryan - Any character in your army that may select Remants of Glory, may instead select from Gifts of Asuryan presented opposite, as the points cost shown. A character cannot choose items from both lists. Note the Wraithforge Stone and Guardian Helm of Xallathon do not replace a weapon.
Spiritseer Psychic Powers - Any Iyanden Spiritseer that generates his psychic powers from the Runes of Battle discipline treats Voice of Twilight (see below) as their Primaris Power, rather than Conceal/Reveal
Warlord Traits - An Iyanden Warlord may roll on the Warlord Traits table presented here, instead of those in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook or Codex: Eldar.
1 A Hero For Ages Past and Future - This is a soul of peerless lineage, its every deed a redoubled echo of forebears long dead.
Roll a D3; the Warlord can make this many re-rolls over the course of the game. These re-rolls can be used for To Hit rolls, To Wound rolls, Armour Penetration rolls and saving throws.
I'm completely calling bs on this one! Am I the only sane one here that feels this 'suppliment' should be bundled to the new eldar codex? I'm not an eldar player but I feels sorry for the elder player to have to buy TWO books to play their army to the full extent. Don't buy both books? then you don't get the 'awesome' rule to use for your Eldar army.
I would actually fell better if they would make it a standalone codex, like dark eldar.
This codex suppliment has the taint to the dreaded video games DLC or in app purchase format.
If this gains acceptance. I can already see the new Codex: Space Marines will definitly contain suppliments for Black Templars and even other chapters like Imperial Fist, Salamadar etc. I pity the SM player who needs to keep buying 'suppliment' codex to play with slightly different varations of SMs
alienvalentine wrote: I don't know, I think that $50 is a pretty fair price for a hard back, full color, 100+ pages worth of Codex. It's actually cheaper than most similarly produced "coffee table" art books. Some of their model kits on the other hand are horribly overpriced.
This. Full colour hardbacks of this quality are expensive. I know I bought enough textbooks during my studies that were nowhere near the production quality of the newer codexes and cost twice as much - ten years ago. Sure they (mostly) had a much higher page count, but were printed on poorer quality paper, in smaller dimensions (LxW) and in monotone.
The kits; maybe, I'm not so sure anymore. When I was gaming two to three times a week and I was speedpainting my armies, sure, but now I have more time to paint and play fewer games (and thus put more effort in to the paintwork), I'm not so bothered.
But this is a thread about Codex Iyanden - I'll be getting this as I've been a fan of Iyanden since Doom of the Eldar at least. Actually, probably since the very first painting article for them in WD all those years ago.
5 spiritseers as a single choice? Interesting. Wonder if there's rules for the angel and if we'll get a mini?
Spiritseer Psychic Powers - Any Iyanden Spiritseer that generates his psychic powers from the Runes of Battle discipline treats Voice of Twilight (see below) as their Primaris Power, rather than Conceal/Reveal
.
...Voice of Twilight...
*sigh* I've watched to much MLPFIM....
If this is the first of a series of supplements, then no, Iyanden's background and additional rules probably couldn't have been bundled into the main Codex because there would be the other 4 main craftworlds.
I don't mind though since it is possible to run an Iyanden list even without this supplement (of which a good chunk is background), and because it allows some fleshing out of factions beyond their little paragraph blurbs in the main Codex (of which most is copy/paste from the previous Codex).
alienvalentine wrote: I don't know, I think that $50 is a pretty fair price for a hard back, full color, 100+ pages worth of Codex. It's actually cheaper than most similarly produced "coffee table" art books. Some of their model kits on the other hand are horribly overpriced.
This. Full colour hardbacks of this quality are expensive. I know I bought enough textbooks during my studies that were nowhere near the production quality of the newer codexes and cost twice as much - ten years ago. Sure they (mostly) had a much higher page count, but were printed on poorer quality paper, in smaller dimensions (LxW) and in monotone.
The kits; maybe, I'm not so sure anymore. When I was gaming two to three times a week and I was speedpainting my armies, sure, but now I have more time to paint and play fewer games (and thus put more effort in to the paintwork), I'm not so bothered.
But this is a thread about Codex Iyanden - I'll be getting this as I've been a fan of Iyanden since Doom of the Eldar at least. Actually, probably since the very first painting article for them in WD all those years ago.
5 spiritseers as a single choice? Interesting. Wonder if there's rules for the angel and if we'll get a mini?
Sorry, but this is a pair of nonsense arguments.
Firstly, full colour hard backs of this quality are NOT expensive! There is next to nothing in terms of size and production quality between the codexes and any number of annuals they trot out for Xmas every year for everything from Family Guy to the latest boy band, for less than a tenner, even double the price because of development and they're still overpriced by half.
Secondly, comparing the cost of textbooks, which may have a print run in only the tens or hundreds, depending how specialist the topic, to a book that's produced in the thousands, if not tens of thousands, is a fallacy. Also, when was the last time a text book barely broke 100 pages? That's either an incredibly specific, or very easy, subject you're studying!
Out of curiosity, would you be able to do a custom paint scheme on your army but say it counts as Iyanden (so you would obey their rules) or would events hold you to having to paint them that way too?
It seems obvious it would apply to SM, since they have chapter specific models. Just curious, since I just play for fun.
Carthuun wrote: Out of curiosity, would you be able to do a custom paint scheme on your army but say it counts as Iyanden (so you would obey their rules) or would events hold you to having to paint them that way too?
It seems obvious it would apply to SM, since they have chapter specific models. Just curious, since I just play for fun.
You can paint them like green with pink polka dots for all it matters, as long as the list is legal and the models are wysiwyg then you're free and clear.
It's good to get confirmation that there are some actual rules in it. I'm hoping for some truly heinous crap like Alaitoc Disruption Tables and free stuff for nothing upgrades, just to bring a new good army or two into the metagame. The vanilla codex Eldar armies don't seem all that impressive currently.
I mostly just think it's absurd you have to pay so much to get the rules to play an army. If they wanted to release a separate colourful fluff book with pictures and background, sure, whatever, but having to pay so much to get the rules is just crazy.
When it comes to the actual rules required to play the game I'd be more than happy if they came in a black and white soft cover pamphlet, easier to navigate than a hardback anyway.
But that would go against GW's policy of fleecing customers until they leave and then fleecing remaining customers even more to compensate.
One concern I have is whether GW will suffer from changes in its policy and design vision. It had supplemental Codices and WD army lists previously, then decided to fold them back into the main Codex. Now it seems Iyanden is going to be the first in a new series of supplements, showing a change back to the old vision of many variations. However it could be in a few years they will change yet again and swing back to 1 Codex per race. GW can't seem to make up its mind and changes before they have gone through one cycle of the whole range of Codices.
Here's hoping that future supplements also come with new models. Even a single unit that needs updating (Looking at you, Saim-Hann, and your jetbikes) would be a very nice boost to the production schedule.
As far as rule supplements, and with Eldar in mind, I hope Ulthwe isn't too far away.
I'd rather actual suppliments that were charged for than doctrines/special rules that were crammed into codexes simply because the fanbase wanted them. If these things can return decent money then they'll get more care and development, and therefore be fun.
That and I would happily pay £30 for a Codex: Mordian Iron Guard suppliment
Actually it just occurred to me, this is quite possibly the answer to GW's recent rapid fire release schedule. I was wondering if they were planning on maintaining this release rate and what they'd do when they started to run out of armies to update. Perhaps they intend to start releasing supplements for all armies so they can maintain the fast release rate without running out of things to release.
alienvalentine wrote: I don't know, I think that $50 is a pretty fair price for a hard back, full color, 100+ pages worth of Codex. It's actually cheaper than most similarly produced "coffee table" art books. Some of their model kits on the other hand are horribly overpriced.
This. Full colour hardbacks of this quality are expensive. I know I bought enough textbooks during my studies that were nowhere near the production quality of the newer codexes and cost twice as much - ten years ago. Sure they (mostly) had a much higher page count, but were printed on poorer quality paper, in smaller dimensions (LxW) and in monotone.
The kits; maybe, I'm not so sure anymore. When I was gaming two to three times a week and I was speedpainting my armies, sure, but now I have more time to paint and play fewer games (and thus put more effort in to the paintwork), I'm not so bothered.
But this is a thread about Codex Iyanden - I'll be getting this as I've been a fan of Iyanden since Doom of the Eldar at least. Actually, probably since the very first painting article for them in WD all those years ago.
5 spiritseers as a single choice? Interesting. Wonder if there's rules for the angel and if we'll get a mini?
Sorry, but this is a pair of nonsense arguments.
Firstly, full colour hard backs of this quality are NOT expensive! There is next to nothing in terms of size and production quality between the codexes and any number of annuals they trot out for Xmas every year for everything from Family Guy to the latest boy band, for less than a tenner, even double the price because of development and they're still overpriced by half.
Secondly, comparing the cost of textbooks, which may have a print run in only the tens or hundreds, depending how specialist the topic, to a book that's produced in the thousands, if not tens of thousands, is a fallacy. Also, when was the last time a text book barely broke 100 pages? That's either an incredibly specific, or very easy, subject you're studying!
Archaeology and Ancient History.
Here's one, very specialist (so refers to your last point) Greek colony of Miletos - more like £90 at time of release, 192 pages.The Kindle edition is still nearly £20, 11 years after it was published.
The Iyanden Codex is a niche product with a massively smaller print run than seasonal 'stocking fillers' which are guaranteed to sell quickly. There's a whole raft of different economics at work there than in Codex pricing, where books may sit around for some time before being sold. I also think the paper is a much higher quality than that I've seen in the kids' annuals, it's certainly heavier. The gatefolds and such will also add on additional costs.
Sure, it's overpriced, but I don't think it's as overpriced as some of the responders here seem to think. .
Books are a lot more expensive than they used to be, and that's across the board. Penguin classics (the Bronte's, Dickens, Virgil, Homer etc) used to be £2.99 when I was in uni, they now retail for much closer to £10 each.
I like the idea of supplements, but I think the approach is a bit meh.
I would have prefered a smaller, lower priced rule book for the different Craftworlds, and seperately sold Fluffbooks in the style of "Heraldry of the Skaven", so that I'm not "forced" to pay for the pretty pictures if I don't want to.
Textbooks are a poor comparison. Captive group of consumers, who MUST BUY it (in the latest edition, generally, and revisions come every couple of years) in order to do their class work.
Even my father-in-law, who is a college professor and has written books used in class, will admit it's a racket.
Well, this does interest me a lot. I'll be taking a good look before I buy it though, to make sure the rules and other content is worth it.
I hope they do one for all CW, again if worth it my FLGS will getting my orders. I REALLY hope they release models with there supplements, we have our wraith units to which we found this codex was coming, so maybe jetbikes for Saim-hann, spiders for Biel-tan(being aspect focused), not really sure what they could do for the others. Maybe a decent storm guardians kit...ah one can dream.
If it plays out that way then one way or another GW will be getting me monies.
This also make me VERY curious with a possible BT supplement codex.
alienvalentine wrote: I don't know, I think that $50 is a pretty fair price for a hard back, full color, 100+ pages worth of Codex. It's actually cheaper than most similarly produced "coffee table" art books. Some of their model kits on the other hand are horribly overpriced.
Most coffee table books are like 9$ at barnes and nobles. The 300 page 40kRPG books are of much better quality and cost 10$ more. No reason to try to justify the price when it cannot be justified.
I am very happy about supplements for various specific factions being released. However, having to pay €78 to play one army is a bit excessive, I wonder why they could not put all the rules to play the army in that one book, same as with say, uuuhm, Blood Angels, Dark Angels or Space Wolves. As it stands now it's just to damn expensive to buy both, a shame really.
Here's the thing. They could have left Wraithguard and Wraithblades as Elite only in the main codex. They could have left the Spiritseer as a unit found only in this supplement. That truly WOULD have forced Iyanden players to buy this thing in order to play their army the way they expect to. But they didn't.
All of the Craftworlds (barring Biel-Tan, poor buggers) can be played in a way that's very fluffy to their choice of craftworld without any supplements. The Iyanden book looks to have just a little bit more flexibility to polish up an already playable Iyanden list made from the main book.
In short, they could have been real donkey-caves about this, but if you're playing Iyanden and don't want to shell out, it's not a big loss, and you can still field your Wraith army.
Ugh, GW continues to give me pause once again about buying their product. I wish they would finally tank so someone else can try and run this tub better.
alienvalentine wrote: I don't know, I think that $50 is a pretty fair price for a hard back, full color, 100+ pages worth of Codex. It's actually cheaper than most similarly produced "coffee table" art books. Some of their model kits on the other hand are horribly overpriced.
Most coffee table books are like 9$ at barnes and nobles. The 300 page 40kRPG books are of much better quality and cost 10$ more. No reason to try to justify the price when it cannot be justified.
GW does not make those games, therefor the price can not be doubled. FFG makes them and they don't live inside the looney bin called GW.
First off, I totally get the appeal for the gamers as well as GW with suppliments.
Maybe it is just me, but I prefer to have one codex in my hands when playing. The thought of having to have two books on the table and flipping between the two is just not that appealing to me.
I swear the only reason I play this game anymore is because I collect so much stuff to paint that I can field it and might as well do it and round out my modeling experience by doing so.
shamikebab wrote: A lot of people are acting like you can't play Iyanden with just the Eldar Codex...this is clearly not true.
Ofcourse you can play an Iyanden army with the main codex and not use the supplement. I agree that there's no reason to have to buy the extra book, it's just a shame they didn't go all the way with it and completely finished it imho. It looks like a great addition but it's just to damn expensive to justify getting them both I think. That is all there is to it, and I do find that a bit sad. I was thinking about going Iyanden but I'll just stuck to the main codex with an emphasis on wraith guard/lords and a yellow paint job. No one is forcing me to buy it after all. I was just hoping it would be a full list that would mean not spend money for 2 books on one army.
wufai wrote:I'm completely calling bs on this one! Am I the only sane one here that feels this 'suppliment' should be bundled to the new eldar codex? I'm not an eldar player but I feels sorry for the elder player to have to buy TWO books to play their army to the full extent. Don't buy both books? then you don't get the 'awesome' rule to use for your Eldar army.
I would actually fell better if they would make it a standalone codex, like dark eldar.
This codex suppliment has the taint to the dreaded video games DLC or in app purchase format.
If this gains acceptance. I can already see the new Codex: Space Marines will definitly contain suppliments for Black Templars and even other chapters like Imperial Fist, Salamadar etc. I pity the SM player who needs to keep buying 'suppliment' codex to play with slightly different varations of SMs
I agree. I'm not on board with supplements. The information should be rolled into the main book or left alone entirely. I plan on doing a small allied contingent of Eldar and even plan on doing Iyanden, but I will not be purchasing this supplement. I do not wish to contribute to its success and ultimately the precedent it may set for future releases.
Iracundus wrote:One concern I have is whether GW will suffer from changes in its policy and design vision. It had supplemental Codices and WD army lists previously, then decided to fold them back into the main Codex. Now it seems Iyanden is going to be the first in a new series of supplements, showing a change back to the old vision of many variations. However it could be in a few years they will change yet again and swing back to 1 Codex per race. GW can't seem to make up its mind and changes before they have gone through one cycle of the whole range of Codices.
It's clear that this is a gimmick to get more sales. GW can go in and out of differing sales models from edition to edition to drive sales and as a business it's fantastic in that regards. However, as a consumer it's horrible and I'm left feeling abused.
shamikebab wrote:A lot of people are acting like you can't play Iyanden with just the Eldar Codex...this is clearly not true.
Correct, but a lot of people (Eldar players) will be left feeling uninformed if they don't purchase the book. They'll not know all the available options to them when building their Eldar army. This is probably the biggest failing of supplements.
The children of Asuryan are truly blessed, for today the iPad Edition of Codex: Iyanden goes on pre-order. As the first supplemental Codex for Warhammer 40,000, this is a very exciting time to be a hobbyist.
LMFAO
You know what my favorite armies were when I was actively playing 40k?
Dark Angels (supplemental codex)
Black Templars (codex: armageddon, compilation of several supplemental codecies)
Steel Legion (codex: armageddon, compilation of several supplemental codecies)
Catachan blah blah blah (supplemental codex)
Armageddon Ork Fighters (WD supplemental army list)
Feral Orks (WD supplemental but nearly complete army list)
Ulthwe (craftworld eldar, compilation of several supplemental codecies)
Death Guard (originally a WD supplemental army list)
Lost and the Damned Black Templars (codex: Eye of Terror, compilation of several supplemental codecies)
Ulthwe again, as a strike force (codex: Eye of Terror, compilation of several supplemental codecies)
...yes, I did also like a few from vanilla codexes, but I've always liked the niche armies. Really screwed me in 4th edition.
I believe what Dan Harden, White Dwarf Daily meant to say was
The children of Asuryan are truly blessed, for today the iPad Edition of Codex: Iyanden goes on pre-order. As the first $50 supplemental Codex for Warhammer 40,000, this is a very exciting time to be a hobbyist.
Curious that they decided to restart sub-codex books with an Iyanden book, which, while caracterful, seems like it would otherwise have been far below other options like a CSM, IG, or even other eldar options (I'd have figured Ulthwe or Alaitoc would have been more in line with something like that, though I guess they also didn't have a bunch of new unit kits come out that fit really well like Iyanden did).
I've longed for this moment since Codex: Craftworld Eldar. And now i'm 21... GW has certainly taken its sweet time. Glad Iyanden is getting the attention it deserves!
Vaktathi wrote: Curious that they decided to restart sub-codex books with an Iyanden book, which, while caracterful, seems like it would otherwise have been far below other options like a CSM, IG, or even other eldar options (I'd have figured Ulthwe or Alaitoc would have been more in line with something like that, though I guess they also didn't have a bunch of new unit kits come out that fit really well like Iyanden did).
It really is simple.
Eldar needed a new big model to follow the trend for every single new release. The big model for Eldar is a construct so it fits the Iyanden theme perfectly. So they decide that since the first wave to boost sales will include the big Wraith, they might as well release the new Wraithguard and the Wraithseer in the same time, and since all of them are thematically Iyanden units, the first supplemental Eldar codex might as well be Iyanden. There's nothing about Iyanden deserving anything. It just happens to be the craftworld that fits the new big gribblie the best.
It's just a shame that the Wraithknight is overpriced in game and thus not particularly effective. They'd have ~1000$ of my money if it was good (potentially more if I go crazy). I wonder when they'll learn. They were so close. Just a points cost fix away. Mat Ward would've made it good and GW would've made money. Fire Phil Kelly
@spiralingcadaver: the price has been up since Friday on iBooks...
it's $40, not $50...
i guess Dan meant the first supplemental Codex for 6th edition, since we have had plenty of supplements in the past, as you pointed out...
one was even FREE in WD, Codex: Assassins...
Therion wrote: It's just a shame that the Wraithknight is overpriced in game and thus not particularly effective. They'd have ~1000$ of my money if it was good (potentially more if I go crazy). I wonder when they'll learn. They were so close. Just a points cost fix away. Mat Ward would've made it good and GW would've made money. Fire Phil Kelly
So we'd get a truly OP Mary Sue fluffed killingmachine with incredibly lame powers that in NO way fit with the background of the army?
No thank you, I prefer an almost hit better than a misfire
PK may not be the sharpest tool, but he's way better than Ward IMHO
Which ones are the other craftworlds do you think deserve a supplemental codex? I think it's pretty obvious but:
Alaitoc: Rangers focused. Pathfinders same price as rangers?
Ulthwé: Psychic powers. Choosing powers instead of rolling?
Saim-Hann: Fast movement. +1 Jink Save?
Biel-Tan: Elite army. Assault after running?
So we'd get a truly OP Mary Sue fluffed killingmachine with incredibly lame powers that in NO way fit with the background of the army?
No thank you, I prefer an almost hit better than a misfire
PK may not be the sharpest tool, but he's way better than Ward IMHO
Well, Jeremy Vetock did the Tau? That guy's so obviously a gamer. The codex is filled to the brim with tools for all 6th edition challenges. All of them cost points but you get to decide which ones you want. Riptide is rather awesome for its points but yet balanced enough that some people actually tried to argue its' bad when the codex came out.
Phil Kelly on the other hand is anything but a gamer and his latest Eldar are a brilliant example of it. A codex that doesn't have answers for any of the 6th edition problems, and on top of it all he probably cost GW hundreds of thousands of dollars by completely dropping the ball on the Wraithknight by making it awful.
sphynx wrote: I've longed for this moment since Codex: Craftworld Eldar. And now i'm 21... GW has certainly taken its sweet time. Glad Iyanden is getting the attention it deserves!
My God, you are old! Better get that zimmer ordered, its all downhill from here
Man....reading this thread I totally understand why GW utterly ignores the sentiments of the internet.....nothing will ever make many of you happy and all you want is something to complain about.
Man....reading this thread I totally understand why GW utterly ignores the sentiments of the internet.....nothing will ever make many of you happy and all you want is something to complain about.
Everyone on the internet complains, but Games Workshop is the only company in the gaming business that actually 'ignores the sentiments of the internet' publicly. They are missing on so many opportunities to make money every year it's unreal, and that's on bad management and general unprofessionalism.
Maybe they are trying to compensate for declining model sales? Mark up on printed material (well, aside from the shipping side) has to be better than even plasticrack.
Therion wrote: Games Workshop is the only company in the gaming business that actually 'ignores the sentiments of the internet' publicly. They are missing on so many opportunities to make money every year it's unreal, and that's on bad management and general unprofessionalism.
Disagree. There is no way GW would benefit from visibly interacting with internet-vocal wargamers.
noghri wrote: Which ones are the other craftworlds do you think deserve a supplemental codex? I think it's pretty obvious but: Alaitoc: Rangers focused. Pathfinders same price as rangers? Ulthwé: Psychic powers. Choosing powers instead of rolling? Saim-Hann: Fast movement. +1 Jink Save? Biel-Tan: Elite army. Assault after running?
I guess it's pretty arguable, but Biel-Tan strikes me as the most generic Craftworld. OTOH, seems like GW thinks Saim-Hann are the appropriate poster elves.
People hated having lots of little sub-'Dexes linked to main 'Dexes. Now they're going to do them for the same cost as the main books and in hard-cover?
I don't care if they want to put together a fluff book with different paint scheme and all that jazz. Rules need to be in the main rulebook period.
How much you want to bet the rules in the Iyanden book will be slightly better than the main rulebook. I don't want to encourage them to produce junk rulebooks that require you to buy another full price book to be competitive.
noghri wrote: Which ones are the other craftworlds do you think deserve a supplemental codex? I think it's pretty obvious but: Alaitoc: Rangers focused. Pathfinders same price as rangers? Ulthwé: Psychic powers. Choosing powers instead of rolling? Saim-Hann: Fast movement. +1 Jink Save? Biel-Tan: Elite army. Assault after running?
Alaitoc: Outcast list with DE allies, Corsairs, Pathfinders and disruption tables? Ulthwé: Choosing powers, more psychic powers, different psychic power tables, webway gates, black guardians? Saim-Hann: I don't really know... Our jetbikes are awesome as they are... close combat oriented jetbikes? proper squad leaders for them and Nuadhu Fireheart? Biel-Tan: Autarchs letting some aspects become troops? An Autarch who can actually do something?
...there's lot's of possibilities, and with the price we have to pay I sure hope they make some good decisions if they do release them
I'm going Yme-Loc and just skipping the whole super barbie. I'll run the gambit with Revenants/Phantoms or figure out how to do the Gales - not thinking I can do the bright stallions though.
No barbies/horses. We're talking about manly miniatures, not cowgirl barbie/my little pony.
People complain that it's unfair that Space Marines get variants when no one else does. Games Workshop releases Codex: Iyanden. People complain that it's a money-grab stunt. WHAT THE HELL??
AlmightyWalrus wrote: People complain that it's unfair that Space Marines get variants when no one else does. Games Workshop releases Codex: Iyanden. People complain that it's a money-grab stunt. WHAT THE HELL??
I don't need to own Codex:Space Marines to make use of the rules crunch in the Space Wolves and Blood Angel codexes. Apples and Oranges.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: People complain that it's unfair that Space Marines get variants when no one else does. Games Workshop releases Codex: Iyanden. People complain that it's a money-grab stunt. WHAT THE HELL??
Last time I checked, you only needed one Marine book to play any of the alternatives.
wowsmash wrote: How much you want to bet the rules in the Iyanden book will be slightly better than the main rulebook. I don't want to encourage them to produce junk rulebooks that require you to buy another full price book to be competitive.
I question the depth of the "rules" in this book. I can see a few special rules, the permission to take Wraithknights as HQ, and a new Warlord Chart. Add some scenarios and other bits and bobs and that's it. The rest of painting articles and GW Brand "everything is equally valid and useful please buy all our models" tactics articles.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Actually it just occurred to me, this is quite possibly the answer to GW's recent rapid fire release schedule. I was wondering if they were planning on maintaining this release rate and what they'd do when they started to run out of armies to update. Perhaps they intend to start releasing supplements for all armies so they can maintain the fast release rate without running out of things to release.
This is my thinking as well. They run out of regular 6th edition codexes to release sometime next year at the rate they are going. These subcodexes will fill the needs for new releases (along with a few new models) as well a fill gaps in the fluff. For the Eldar, a single codex expands to main codex, five craftworld supplements and perhaps a corsairs supplement. CSM supplements add four more new books and Marines add god knows how many supplements. Perhaps each Tyranid hive fleet will get its own book.
This is a huge opportunity for GW to expand the fluff and sell a bunch of expensive books at the same time. Given that 6th edition is intended to last quite a bit longer than previous 40K editions (8 years?) this is a way keep things interesting over the longer life cycle of the game.
I for one am glad to see the supplements come back. That was one thing I loved about 3rd edition. All the codex choices and army choices. I am more of a fluff player so this is very exciting to see.
I am a little concerned with the price of the supplement. But I think there are good things to come.
shamikebab wrote: Any word on if this is direct exclusive or will be available from all retailers?
I placed a pre-order for it at my FLGS. He said it was on his order list with the other new Eldar items but to be delivered later this month, mid month but I don't remember the exact date.
Codex - Imperial Fists, Raven Guard, Iron Hands, blah blah blah are all on their way i'd imagine. GW really bite the big one... I was going to dsay sometimes but jees, all the time! Black library and Forgeworld keep me in this game right now!
wowsmash wrote: How much you want to bet the rules in the Iyanden book will be slightly better than the main rulebook. I don't want to encourage them to produce junk rulebooks that require you to buy another full price book to be competitive.
I question the depth of the "rules" in this book. I can see a few special rules, the permission to take Wraithknights as HQ, and a new Warlord Chart. Add some scenarios and other bits and bobs and that's it. The rest of painting articles and GW Brand "everything is equally valid and useful please buy all our models" tactics articles.
You can't take a WK as an hq choice it says that specifically you can just make it your warlord even though its not an hq choice.
wowsmash wrote: How much you want to bet the rules in the Iyanden book will be slightly better than the main rulebook. I don't want to encourage them to produce junk rulebooks that require you to buy another full price book to be competitive.
I question the depth of the "rules" in this book. I can see a few special rules, the permission to take Wraithknights as HQ, and a new Warlord Chart. Add some scenarios and other bits and bobs and that's it. The rest of painting articles and GW Brand "everything is equally valid and useful please buy all our models" tactics articles.
You can't take a WK as an hq choice it says that specifically you can just make it your warlord even though its not an hq choice.
Warlord Trait: Gunstar - Allows Wraithknight to fire 4 weapons per round, makes model Dizzy.
I can't see how this is a good thing by any stretch of the imagination, and I've been jonesing on Iyanden ever since I bought the Iyanden boxed army years ago (the one with,what, 20 metal wraithguard in it and three metal wraithlords?).
GW states, repeatedly, that they are a miniatures company first and foremost. They then start releasing very slim $50 rulebooks.
GW states, repeatedly, that they moved away from the 'codex and supplemental codex' model with Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, etc. They then deliberately release a supplemental codex (and act like it is a new development).
They release rules for models in a codex (Orks) and a White Dwarf (Ork planes) and update them on the internet, then pull the internet updates and direct you to a third publication (Death from the Skies).
People worry now about older Codexes being updated, but GW now decides to release supplemental codexes? Anyone want to guess how long it will take to update Codex Eldar and supplemental codexes for multiple craftworlds?
This really sends the message that either GW doesn't know what the hell it is doing, or that it's misleading its fans, either deliberately or through incompetence. Not the type of thing to inspire confidence or loyalty. If GW tells me that supplemental codexes are a bad idea, and then tells me that supplemental codexes are an exciting new opportunity, GW has to be wrong somewhere.
GW is worried about piracy and moves to a very limited iPad platform for digital sales, but instead of making codexes an attractive purchase, either in print, or on line (or heck, even both), it makes the Codexes more expensive, and removes rules from them to sell in supplemental codexes. People aren't buying enough $25 books? Make the books $50 and require more of them! I don't see how this will lead to anything but more piracy.
People like me, who would like to collect all the codexes for artwork, background material, and rules interest, get intimidated by the prices. I expect a lot of would-be collectors (and people with a moderate level of interest) are more intimidated by the high prices to maintain a complete collection. I suspect that a lot of people who 'fall off' the collecting bandwagon after a release or two don't get back on.
Now, I think there's lots of ways that GWcould have done this correctly.
You could have had a substantial Eldar Codex, which unlocked various options for each Craftworld through Force Organization selections (or even through Force Org restrictions--'You cannot take these Iyanden options if at least x number of units are not Wraith units"). People wouldn't feel ripped off, and they would have a full range of options with one book. Updates would be done on one book.
You could have had a good basic Eldar Codex (still think $50 for this is overpriced compared to, say, a Pathfinder RPG full color $50 book with 3-4x the number of pages), and released an inexpensive paperback expansion for Craftworlds (like $10). You would still have the problem of an extremely extended update cycle, but at least, you wouldn't be paying through the nose for it. It also wouldn't be prohibitively expensive to have multiple sub-codexes for flexibility.
(Compare this to the situation with an Eldar collector with a substantial army. Suppose he would like the flexibility of playing his force as one of several different craftworlds. Buying a codex and maybe 5+ supplemental codexes at $50 a pop isn't as attractive. Now think of the poor dude who might want to play his CSM as any one of 8 Legions).
$50 Codexes are enough of a 'bar to entry' for the game. You need the codex to play, so why make the 'entry fee' so high in the first place. Sell them an inexpensive codex so that they can spend all their money on your models. Throwing a secondary obstacle to starting an army in the way isn't only bad for customers, it's bad for GW. They make money selling models (according to them) so why make it harder for people to start an army? Wouldn't a cheap, easy way to get extra options for collecting an army be in their interest?
jah-joshua wrote: @spiralingcadaver: the price has been up since Friday on iBooks...
it's $40, not $50...
i guess Dan meant the first supplemental Codex for 6th edition, since we have had plenty of supplements in the past, as you pointed out...
one was even FREE in WD, Codex: Assassins...
cheers
jah
My bad, I couldn't find a price, so believed Dakka's info.
Manchu wrote: Welp, using IA11, you can us a Wraithseer as your second HQ choice.
Manchu I hope so I have that model, but it will depend on the wording of the supplement you may not be able to take things from codex eldar freely it may have a list of things you are allowed to take.
$50 Codexes are enough of a 'bar to entry' for the game. You need the codex to play, so why make the 'entry fee' so high in the first place. Sell them an inexpensive codex so that they can spend all their money on your models. Throwing a secondary obstacle to starting an army in the way isn't only bad for customers, it's bad for GW. They make money selling models (according to them) so why make it harder for people to start an army? Wouldn't a cheap, easy way to get extra options for collecting an army be in their interest?
bty Da Butcha Excellent comments you made. Similar to my own.
Games Workshop does not care about the average person wanting to get into the hobby, nor those who are having a hard time justifying in upgrading their armies all together. They feel that they have enough sheeple to continue this current business practice, but even that practice can't last for long.
I liked the supplement aspect, however the incredible upfront cost to just to read the rules of a specific army is unacceptable.
Therion wrote: Eldar needed a new big model to follow the trend for every single new release. The big model for Eldar is a construct so it fits the Iyanden theme perfectly. So they decide that since the first wave to boost sales will include the big Wraith, they might as well release the new Wraithguard and the Wraithseer in the same time, and since all of them are thematically Iyanden units, the first supplemental Eldar codex might as well be Iyanden. There's nothing about Iyanden deserving anything. It just happens to be the craftworld that fits the new big gribblie the best.
It's just a shame that the Wraithknight is overpriced in game and thus not particularly effective. They'd have ~1000$ of my money if it was good (potentially more if I go crazy). I wonder when they'll learn. They were so close. Just a points cost fix away. Mat Ward would've made it good and GW would've made money. Fire Phil Kelly
Chaos Daemons and Dark Angels are still waiting for their "new big model" that is the alleged trend for every single release. Heck, do people really count the dino-fiends (ie, the MCs that are counted as walkers while other armies' walkers are counted as MC) as "big models" for Chaos Marines?
Anyway, you hit the nail on the head as to why Iyanden is the first supplement. When most of the new models for a new codex are prominently featured in a single faction, it just makes good business sense that its the first faction to get a supplement. Had they started this with Chaos, it would have been Iron Warriors most likely given all the mechs.
Just so long as GW makes good and does supplements for other factions, its all good IMO. Heck, its bound to be a great money maker after all.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Then why not just do a whole AdMech Codex? Why would it need to be Imperial Guard+ ?
Why not? I'm sure GW could have a multitude of reasons, from not wanting to support a whole new model range to the practicality of how much mundane/vehicle overlap there could be to any number of dumber reasons. It's enough of a stretch either way that I would be happy having either option, especially if the supplement book route makes getting any sort of codex at all more likely.
A full stand alone book would obviously be optimal.
I really like the idea behind this book, and I'd love to see theconcept retroactively applied to, say chaos, but my guess is that isn't going to happen. We'll almost certainly see templars handled this way, though.
If I had more disposable income I might actually buy this thing for the art, it looks amazing. I'd like to readthe fluff, too, although I've never been an eldar player the wraith constructs have always been something I like a lot, fluffwise. We'll see.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Actually it just occurred to me, this is quite possibly the answer to GW's recent rapid fire release schedule. I was wondering if they were planning on maintaining this release rate and what they'd do when they started to run out of armies to update. Perhaps they intend to start releasing supplements for all armies so they can maintain the fast release rate without running out of things to release.
This is my thinking as well. They run out of regular 6th edition codexes to release sometime next year at the rate they are going. These subcodexes will fill the needs for new releases (along with a few new models) as well a fill gaps in the fluff. For the Eldar, a single codex expands to main codex, five craftworld supplements and perhaps a corsairs supplement. CSM supplements add four more new books and Marines add god knows how many supplements. Perhaps each Tyranid hive fleet will get its own book.
This is a huge opportunity for GW to expand the fluff and sell a bunch of expensive books at the same time. Given that 6th edition is intended to last quite a bit longer than previous 40K editions (8 years?) this is a way keep things interesting over the longer life cycle of the game.
Tim
Agreed. It also fits somewhat with the recent rumor for WHFB where they were simply going to release all of the army lists in three or four army books. I can see 7th edition of 40k having three or four main 'codices' released at the beginning of 7th edition as well followed by several 'supplemental' codices.
alienvalentine wrote: I don't know, I think that $50 is a pretty fair price for a hard back, full color, 100+ pages worth of Codex. It's actually cheaper than most similarly produced "coffee table" art books. Some of their model kits on the other hand are horribly overpriced.
This. Full colour hardbacks of this quality are expensive. I know I bought enough textbooks during my studies that were nowhere near the production quality of the newer codexes and cost twice as much - ten years ago. Sure they (mostly) had a much higher page count, but were printed on poorer quality paper, in smaller dimensions (LxW) and in monotone.
The kits; maybe, I'm not so sure anymore. When I was gaming two to three times a week and I was speedpainting my armies, sure, but now I have more time to paint and play fewer games (and thus put more effort in to the paintwork), I'm not so bothered.
But this is a thread about Codex Iyanden - I'll be getting this as I've been a fan of Iyanden since Doom of the Eldar at least. Actually, probably since the very first painting article for them in WD all those years ago.
5 spiritseers as a single choice? Interesting. Wonder if there's rules for the angel and if we'll get a mini?
Sorry, but this is a pair of nonsense arguments.
Firstly, full colour hard backs of this quality are NOT expensive! There is next to nothing in terms of size and production quality between the codexes and any number of annuals they trot out for Xmas every year for everything from Family Guy to the latest boy band, for less than a tenner, even double the price because of development and they're still overpriced by half.
Secondly, comparing the cost of textbooks, which may have a print run in only the tens or hundreds, depending how specialist the topic, to a book that's produced in the thousands, if not tens of thousands, is a fallacy. Also, when was the last time a text book barely broke 100 pages? That's either an incredibly specific, or very easy, subject you're studying!
Archaeology and Ancient History.
Here's one, very specialist (so refers to your last point) Greek colony of Miletos - more like £90 at time of release, 192 pages.The Kindle edition is still nearly £20, 11 years after it was published.
The Iyanden Codex is a niche product with a massively smaller print run than seasonal 'stocking fillers' which are guaranteed to sell quickly. There's a whole raft of different economics at work there than in Codex pricing, where books may sit around for some time before being sold. I also think the paper is a much higher quality than that I've seen in the kids' annuals, it's certainly heavier. The gatefolds and such will also add on additional costs.
Sure, it's overpriced, but I don't think it's as overpriced as some of the responders here seem to think. .
Books are a lot more expensive than they used to be, and that's across the board. Penguin classics (the Bronte's, Dickens, Virgil, Homer etc) used to be £2.99 when I was in uni, they now retail for much closer to £10 each.
Licensed Calendars now, they're a rip off!
As a slightly off topic conversation, I believe the right honourable gentleman who said coffee table hardback art books aren't expensive hasn't got a clue what he's talking about.
I have a rather large collection of art books, ranging from £20 all the way up to £75, with most of them being for the Sci Fi genre. As an art lover and someone who takes inspiration for his own literary work, the price GW are asking for this book is very fair if it's full of great art like their modern day codex, which it looks like it is.
As a wargamer, I'm thrilled to see GW making this move. It's going to add the variety back to the game that is sorely missing. Taking a stock army from a codex and then passing it off as a full army from particular fluff has never sat well with me and to have Iyanden as the first one has pretty much sealed my pick of Eldar Army. I can't wait to see more fluff, different rules and more great artwork.
I don't usually praise GW, but this is a great move towards putting some of the variety and background back into the hobby that got me hooked way back when with Rogue Trader.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: People complain that it's unfair that Space Marines get variants when no one else does. Games Workshop releases Codex: Iyanden. People complain that it's a money-grab stunt. WHAT THE HELL??
I don't need to own Codex:Space Marines to make use of the rules crunch in the Space Wolves and Blood Angel codexes. Apples and Oranges.
Considering it's impossible to have a discussion about the future of the Black Templars without someone saying they should be turned into a supplement I'm not gonna accept an "apples to oranges". Every single time there's a discussion about variant Chapters there's people complaining that they'd be better as supplements, but now that there's an Eldar supplement there's almost a universal outcry about prices. I'll stop my off-topic whining now, but the hypocrisy and goalpost-moving of the community is starting to get old.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: People complain that it's unfair that Space Marines get variants when no one else does. Games Workshop releases Codex: Iyanden. People complain that it's a money-grab stunt. WHAT THE HELL??
I don't need to own Codex:Space Marines to make use of the rules crunch in the Space Wolves and Blood Angel codexes. Apples and Oranges.
Considering it's impossible to have a discussion about the future of the Black Templars without someone saying they should be turned into a supplement I'm not gonna accept an "apples to oranges". Every single time there's a discussion about variant Chapters there's people complaining that they'd be better as supplements, but now that there's an Eldar supplement there's almost a universal outcry about prices. I'll stop my off-topic whining now, but the hypocrisy and goalpost-moving of the community is starting to get old.
That isn't hypocrisy at all. Most people seem very happy with the concept and content of the supplement, just not the price. The issue is that you are clearly paying for more than you're getting, rules-wise, and that it seems pretty unfair to charge codex prices, or just under, for a product you still need to purchase the codex to use. My expectation, and I think one shared by a lot of people, was for supplements to be softback, kind of like the old codexes, and cost around $25. People weren't expecting to see an art and background book, with the premium price that those usually entail, with the rules they want thrown in, as those target two different markets.
I'm very much in favor of using supplements instead of entirely different codexes for in-faction variations.
In fact, I'd go so far as to say space marines would be better if there was one "space marine" codex and a supplement like this for each chapter. This way, even a less updated chapter would benefit when the basic building blocks of the army change.
But like everyone else, I think the price point is about $10 too high. This should be a softback with perfect binding for cheap.
I for one don't appreciate having other armies, such as Orks, pushed back in favour of Codex: Yellow Eldar any more than I do when they're pushed back in favour of Codex: Red Marines.
I'm more than happy for GW to offer this extra flexibility, but I don't want to have to buy 2 Codexes to make my army as good as it can be.
I don't think there will be too many new rules in it. If anything, you will probably be able to skim the codex at a store, notice the changes you would want to incorporate into your army, and just remember them.
Like having 5 Spiritseers to lead different units. You don't need the Iyanden codex for that. We'll have to see how these rules are presented, based on those previews of the missions it is possible that you choose a Codex: Eldar army, with the ability to use the Iyanden supplement only for those missions. There may also be restrictions to what an Iyanden army can take. Furthermore, these rules may not be tournament-legal, just like Forgeworld, so there wouldn't be any need for a non-Eldar player to worry about having to pick up this book.
If white dwarf updates are tournament legal, this should be as well. Also, it's touted as a codex and not a supplement. So eldar now have two codexes in the same relation as blood angels to vanilla marines.
The main problem I see with people being excited over GW releasing expensive supplements is that this will become an excuse for GW to never put any kind of FOC altering rules again in the codices.
Want Space Marines? Buy codex space marines. Want to play with Vulkan? buy supplement: Salamanders. Want to use Shrike? Buy supplement: Raven Guard, etc, etc.
They used to include these things in the actual main codex
lord_blackfang wrote: I for one don't appreciate having other armies, such as Orks, pushed back in favour of Codex: Yellow Eldar any more than I do when they're pushed back in favour of Codex: Red Marines.
If yellow eldar is successful, GW is more likely to give you different colored orks.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
jspyd3rx wrote: If white dwarf updates are tournament legal, this should be as well. Also, it's touted as a codex and not a supplement. So eldar now have two codexes in the same relation as blood angels to vanilla marines.
We don't know that without seeing it. Just because they're marketing it with the word codex, does not mean it stands alone. We've had things called codex before that were really supplements.
Kirasu wrote: The main problem I see with people being excited over GW releasing expensive supplements is that this will become an excuse for GW to never put any kind of FOC altering rules again in the codices.
Want Space Marines? Buy codex space marines. Want to play with Vulkan? buy supplement: Salamanders. Want to use Shrike? Buy supplement: Raven Guard, etc, etc.
They used to include these things in the actual main codex
Good! I'd love to have a proper Salamanders book instead of a few lines in Vulkan's page.
Good! I'd love to have a proper Salamanders book instead of a few lines in Vulkan's page.
Agreed. People have been clamoring for supplements to the Legions for years. And I find it disheartening that now that it is a possibility of it happening people are complaining about it. I know that even though I don't play Eldar, I will be buying the Iyanden Book to show GW that I do support them and want more of them.
And that is exactly what the problem is here, if they do supplements for the marine codex such as the various legions ( which would be great, don't get me wrong here) it would also show the idiocy of it. Want to play Space Wolves or Angels of death, here get one codex for €39 (atm). Want to play any other legion not graced with it's own codex but a supplement, pay twice that. Don't think that will work very well tbh. Maybe I'm a bit negative but especialy with marine codex/supplement it would show the big price difference.
When I first picked up Rogue Trader from an indy hobby store in Northampton oh so many years ago, I was consumed by the rich background.
For 2nd ed, my favourite edition, there was so much lore and fluff in the books and each model was full of character.
After 3rd ed was released, GW removed the fluff from all of their books. I was working for GW at the time and that's when the hobby changed for me. There wasn't enough to keep me interested and it seemed that the only good army was Chaos 3.5.
I didn't care for 4th and 5th, but 6th for me is a return to form both from a game play and lore perspective.
This book seems to hark back to the years where the Codexes were lore filled tomes with a smattering of rules.
As for the additional payout, I'm willing to take the jump on this occasion, but if it's a dud product, I won't bother again.
Gertjan wrote: And that is exactly what the problem is here, if they do supplements for the marine codex such as the various legions ( which would be great, don't get me wrong here) it would also show the idiocy of it. Want to play Space Wolves or Angels of death, here get one codex for €39 (atm). Want to play any other legion not graced with it's own codex but a supplement, pay twice that. Don't think that will work very well tbh. Maybe I'm a bit negative but especialy with marine codex/supplement it would show the big price difference.
It's optional though. If you want to play Space Wolves, buy the £30 Codex Space Wolves. If you want to play Salamanders, buy the £30 Codex Space Marines. if you want to play an Iyanden theme army, buy the £30 Codex Eldar.
If you really love those armies, want to read more fluff, special character, scenarios etc then you can buy Codex Salamanders and Iyanden add-ons for that. Neither would be needed, just extra stuff if you want it.
ph34r wrote: A full stand alone book would obviously be optimal.
I can say with reasonable certainty they won't make an AdMech codex any time soon. FW are doing that. They've got:
1) A Special Character.
2) Thallax Cohort. (terminator sized)
3) AdMech Landraider. (Plasma cannon sponsons anyone?)
4) Dreadnought sized things. (can't remember name)
5) Another HQ choice. (can't remember this name either)
6) Forgot, the Special Character has a servitor retinue.
Each HH book, they'll add more things until they have a fully fledged army list. I don't think GW would trample on FW so much that they would take any of this or make an alternative.
Kirasu wrote: The main problem I see with people being excited over GW releasing expensive supplements is that this will become an excuse for GW to never put any kind of FOC altering rules again in the codices.
You mean like taking a Spiritseer to make Wraithguard/Wraithblade troops, the very definition of an Iyanden thing to do, in Codex: Eldar?
Lovepug13 wrote: My kingdom for an "Iron Warriors / Night Lords / Alpha Legion / Word Bearers" specific book....
I dont mind which one......just something like this....pretty please lol.
Raptors as troops..........TAKE ALL MY MONEY
Hell yes to the Raptors as Troops. The Raptor/Warp Talon kit is the best thing to come out of the chaos release, and if I hadn't already made raptors out of Beserker kits and loyalist jump packs I'd order 4 boxes today.
Markable Dreds and drop pods/not crappy Dreadclaws would be glorious too, maybe a Rhino assault vehicle? Or Single Slaughterfiends (Defilers ridden/controlled by Khorne Beserker Cowboys and share their statline) or having chosen as a Non FOC retinue for each Lord that counts as scoring and can take Bikes, Jump Packs, Terminator armor or Marked Mounts.
Of course I'm still so damn satisfied with the Tau codex, they will have to work hard to bring me back to Chaos. And Apocalypse ain't gonna do it.
Manchu wrote: Welp, using IA11, you can us a Wraithseer as your second HQ choice.
Manchu I hope so I have that model, but it will depend on the wording of the supplement you may not be able to take things from codex eldar freely it may have a list of things you are allowed to take.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I mostly just think it's absurd you have to pay so much to get the rules to play an army. If they wanted to release a separate colourful fluff book with pictures and background, sure, whatever, but having to pay so much to get the rules is just crazy.
When it comes to the actual rules required to play the game I'd be more than happy if they came in a black and white soft cover pamphlet, easier to navigate than a hardback anyway.
But that would go against GW's policy of fleecing customers until they leave and then fleecing remaining customers even more to compensate.
Thats how Chapter Approved worked back in the day, but for 30$ you had a full 140 pages book, with all the army's erratas and faqs, new rules for divers types of units for different armies and DIY Vehicles Creation rules.
Still remembers the days of FULL Death Company BA lists, or Chaos Cult Terminators and Jugger riding Khorne Deamon Princes...
I do hope they don't blow the eventual Legion supplement...
Hell yes to the Raptors as Troops. The Raptor/Warp Talon kit is the best thing to come out of the chaos release, and if I hadn't already made raptors out of Beserker kits and loyalist jump packs I'd order 4 boxes today.
Markable Dreds and drop pods/not crappy Dreadclaws would be glorious too, maybe a Rhino assault vehicle? Or Single Slaughterfiends (Defilers ridden/controlled by Khorne Beserker Cowboys and share their statline) or having chosen as a Non FOC retinue for each Lord that counts as scoring and can take Bikes, Jump Packs, Terminator armor or Marked Mounts.
Of course I'm still so damn satisfied with the Tau codex, they will have to work hard to bring me back to Chaos. And Apocalypse ain't gonna do it.
Dreadclaw are far superiro then Pods, the only thing Pods have for them is that they can come turn 1, the rest the SM can keep it.
A Dedicated transport and turn one DS Dreadclaws would be awesome ( too good?...)
And yeahs the possibility to dedicate vehicles to the Gods or a new unit variant of the Chosen would be gold...
A whole unit of CHosen mounted on Juggers...*shudders* oooh i like that idea...
I like the supplement idea, would be interesting go get CSM Legions, more Elder craft worlds, SM chapters: Salamanders, Black templars, White Scars... Inquisition codex with Deathwatch, Battle Sisters supplements... (I think Blood Angels and Space Wolfs will be own codex armies)
Yes, GW stuff doesn't come for free... But you only need to get those that you are interested in.
Death By Monkeys wrote: @ashikenshin - That Codex: Ultramarines you wanted? It's called Codex: Space Marines...you know, just in case you didn't notice that there are more Ultramarine special characters in the book than any other Chapter.
To be fair, only by 1, and nobody uses Chronus, Telion, Tigurius or Calgar... In fact, the only Ultramarines Character I've seen used is Sicarius, and I've played a lot of Ultrmarine players x/ Whereas all the other I've seen 3 or 4 times :3
I can't help but suspect people are getting their hopes up a bit: the Iyanden Supplement doesn't look set to include that many rules, whilst I can't see Legions being covered until the CSM Codex is updated (which is surely a long way off).
Of course, this (or the price) could change, particularly depending on the reception of the Iyanden supplement.
Just Dave wrote: : the Iyanden Supplement doesn't look set to include that many rules,
I'll just leave this here. Iyanden book:
via Games Workshop Previews and transcribed by dangermouse on page 1 wrote: Wargear: *Celestial Lance - 35pts This crystal lance was once borne by Drastanta, Tempest of Starlight and Phoenix Lord of the Shining Spears. Alas, Drastanta was ever over-proud and much given to needless lone battles. Drastanta came late to Asurmen's final stand and found his mentor already fallen before the foul might of the Keeper of Secrets N'kari. Keening with rage and sorrow, Drastanta slew the Daemon, the energies of the lance shattering the creature's vile spirit. Drastanta emerged from the fires of Asure where his mentor had not, but he soon vanished into the tumult of the war-torn galaxy. In the centuries since his final recorded battle, the Celestial Lance has passed from shrine to shrine and craftworld to craftworld, the better to keep alive the tales...
*The Wraithforge Stone - 30pts This was once the waystone of the long dead Bonesinger Ivaril Brightshard. It was Ivaril who aided Mehlendri Silversoul in adapting the infinity circuit into a soul reservoir, and Iyanden has never known a more skilled shaper than he. Ivaril's soul has long since departed into the infinity circuit, but legend tells that the echo of it remains in the Wraithforge Stone and allows its bearer to manipulate wraithbone into new forms just as Ivavril once did.
*During each of your Movement phases, nominate a single Wraithlord or Wraithknight within 6" of the bearer and roll a D6. On a roll of a 1 or 2 nothing happens. On a...
*Warlords - When choosing an Iyanden army, you can choose one Wraithlord or Wraithknight to be your Warlord, even though it is not an HQ choice.
*Shadow Council - Iyanden army may take up to 5 Spirit Seers as a single HQ choice, rather than 1.
*Gifts of Asuryan - Any character in your army that may select Remants of Glory, may instead select from Gifts of Asuryan presented opposite, as the points cost shown. A character cannot choose items from both lists. Note the Wraithforge Stone and Guardian Helm of Xallathon do not replace a weapon.
*Spiritseer Psychic Powers - Any Iyanden Spiritseer that generates his psychic powers from the Runes of Battle discipline treats Voice of Twilight (see below) as their Primaris Power, rather than Conceal/Reveal
*Warlord Traits - An Iyanden Warlord may roll on the Warlord Traits table presented here, instead of those in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook or Codex: Eldar.
*1 A Hero For Ages Past and Future - This is a soul of peerless lineage, its every deed a redoubled echo of forebears long dead.
Rolle a D3; the Warlord can make this many re-rolls over the course of the game. These re-rolls can be used for To Hit rolls, To Wound rolls, Armour Penetration rolls and saving throws.
Yes, there are a few more inches on the pages in question. What I meant was, we may already have seen at least a part of every page that has has rules and maybe a significant part at that. I agree with Dave and don't think there's much reason to believe what has been shown indicates a dense rules release.
Yes, there are a few more inches on the pages in question. What I meant was, we may already have seen at least a part of every page that has has rules and maybe a significant part at that. I agree with Dave and don't think there's much reason to believe what has been shown indicates a dense rules release.
Now this is what I'm afraid of.
Just enough to get by and not much else. The description that the preview gives is that this add on gives Ghost Warrior Players a way of bringing the Wraith units to the forefront instead of a supporting role.
I'd like to see how this works. Saturday can't come quick enough.
Death By Monkeys wrote: @ashikenshin - That Codex: Ultramarines you wanted? It's called Codex: Space Marines...you know, just in case you didn't notice that there are more Ultramarine special characters in the book than any other Chapter.
To be fair, only by 1, and nobody uses Chronus, Telion, Tigurius or Calgar... In fact, the only Ultramarines Character I've seen used is Sicarius, and I've played a lot of Ultrmarine players x/ Whereas all the other I've seen 3 or 4 times :3
via Games Workshop and written by a reader for the community on Faeit? wrote:
via Games Workshop ??
I highly doubt that this was written by a reader for the faeit blog and then published by Games Workshop
In other words, think twice before you copypaste stuff from that website, esp. what he thinks are credits.
I think he means transcribed. That's also why I put a question mark. The info was in the GW previews. I think it is a valid copy paste though. I'll edit my original post to make it more clear.
What happened to them phasing crap like this out? Have I just been playing this game so long I am seeing the 3rd ed micro codex comeback..... just without the small price tag.
this is crap. if they wanted something like this they should have done a new craftworld codex and spread the love a bit and it may have been worth the price.
I agree with the comments that the price seems right for the quality of the codex/books they have been putting out.
As a Biel Tan player I will still be getting this not only just to have it but occasionally trying out a list specific to this codex. I also think of course they should come out with a Biel Tan codex to support a heavy aspect based army. I like the idea of allowing certain aspects as troops that are not currently in a BT specific codex.
Death By Monkeys wrote: @ashikenshin - That Codex: Ultramarines you wanted? It's called Codex: Space Marines...you know, just in case you didn't notice that there are more Ultramarine special characters in the book than any other Chapter.
To be fair, only by 1, and nobody uses Chronus, Telion, Tigurius or Calgar... In fact, the only Ultramarines Character I've seen used is Sicarius, and I've played a lot of Ultrmarine players x/ Whereas all the other I've seen 3 or 4 times :3
Use em or not, they are there...
yeah, they are kind of sucky. Still I meant that after codex:space marines is released; that they release a supplement for us smurfs
The idea of codex supplements is nice, but I don't see how it could work for.. lets say Tau. I mean... are there really that many differences between the individual septs? I also hope that GW won't use this as an excuse for an Marine overkill, and I say that as an DA player.
Seneca wrote: The idea of codex supplements is nice, but I don't see how it could work for.. lets say Tau. I mean... are there really that many differences between the individual septs? I also hope that GW won't use this as an excuse for an Marine overkill, and I say that as an DA player.
Kroot Mercenaries as a supplement for Tau could work.
I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that any new rules could fit in a WD article. New Warlord table, a little stuff to shake up your FOC (we already know about WKs as Warlords, maybe there'll be other stuff like ability to take squadrons of WLs or something, who knows), maybe a new psychic table...but when all's said and done it would have been nice for this stuff to be put in the £30 book you had to buy to even play Eldar in the first place.
When I think about other armies getting this treatment, like Ork clans, my reaction is unfortunately not excitement but
I think people should prepare themselves for perceived unfairness on a massive scale regarding these supplements. I remember the (legit) complaints on why on earth did Black Templars get a codex in the first place before some first founding chapter and more of the same will follow.
At this point we can't even be sure GW can be arsed to make codex supplements for each of the Eldar craftworlds, not to mention the more far fetched ideas like Tau Septs / Kroot mercenaries (neither of these will never happen), Ork Klans, Hive Fleets, Tomb Worlds, etc. We'll get a couple supplements in a totally random order without any logic whatsoever and after a few years who knows maybe GW changes policy again and stops making them altogether.
I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that any new rules could fit in a WD article.
It wouldn't be the first time. In the 3rd edition the rules content of every SM/CSM codex would be fit on four WD pages.
I would buy Supplements if they were nothing but fluff/background/short stories/heraldry/etc. I could really care less about special rules, but wouldn't mind if they had some.
Seneca wrote: The idea of codex supplements is nice, but I don't see how it could work for.. lets say Tau. I mean... are there really that many differences between the individual septs? I also hope that GW won't use this as an excuse for an Marine overkill, and I say that as an DA player.
Farsight gathers a bunch of Tau to rise against the Ethereals and other Aliens.
Codex: Red Tau Supplement
Tau with their Human Auxilluaries ride in at the last moment to help Marneus Calgar defeat a group of 250 Hive Tyrants. They brofist a lot.
Codex: Bro Blue Tau Supplement
Again, I can't believe that (some) people are okay with this.
The price is reasonable for the quality of the book? Have you looked at other games? Other gaming companies? Paizo puts out Pathfinder, and their $50 rulebooks are about 4 times as long as these books, and are entirely full color as well.
Good to have the option for your favorite Craftworld/Klan/Legion? There aren't a whole ton of new rules in this book, from all appearances, and it seems like it would have been totally easy to roll out those rules in an actual Codex. I can't be the only guy who owns a ton of Orks and is dreading the thought of buying a Codex Supplement Blood Axes, Codex Supplement Death Skulls, Codex Supplement Goffs, Codex Supplement Evil Suns, Codex Supplement Bad Moons, and Codex Supplement Snakebites.
I'm all for more awesome artwork and background stuff, but give me a book of that stuff, and give me a book of rules, with a minor amount of background and art. Don't sell me a few pages of rules in each of a series of $50 hardcovers.
People are still jazzed about the prospect of getting a supplement for their favorite faction. Will they be as jazzed if three years go by and there's no supplement for their faction? What if the core rulebook changes before you get a supplement, and GW goes back away from supplemental codexes? What if you wait a couple years, get your awesome supplement finally, and GW changes editions and makes it irrelevant?
GW has done supplemental codexes before.
What makes this version of it so much better and more successful than the last time they did it? If they abandoned it once before as a bad/problematic/unprofitable idea, what did they fix this time? Why will it work now when it didn't work before? Why is the idea of having a theme-able list in the basic codex not sufficient?
GW keeps saying that they are a model company, so why do they keep trying to find new ways of flogging books? Instead of moving to a model where rules (at least) are inexpensive and easily available (to encourage people to buy the models), GW is trickling out rules in multiple, more expensive books. Did this work for any other company?
They need to make it easier for people to start collecting an army, or collecting a new army. They were on the right track with things like Kill Team and Allies, which allow and encourage you to start playing small, and to consider buying supplemental armies. Then they go in the exact opposite direction with expensive rulebooks (and expensive supplemental rulebooks).
People complain NOW about GW's erratic proofreading, balancing, and game design. Is having more rules spread across more books going to improve that?
Maybe I'm wrong, but it just seems like GW is trying to get out of a hole by digging faster.
Just to clarify: I love Iyanden, I love the idea of an Iyanden themed army, and I love the idea of GW rules supporting a LOT of different themes in a LOT of different armies. I just don't think $50 supplemental Codexes are, in any way, the best way to accomplish this.
However, GW needs to make a clear policy that these supplments are tied to the main codex (In this case Eldar). So when the next Eldar dex comes out, or invalidated by 7th edition or something, players won't be all hurt their custom armies are useless. They've been put on notice.
Otherwise we'll end up lost orphans like the Eye of Terror codex (cough Lost and the Damn and Wulfen).
Seneca wrote: The idea of codex supplements is nice, but I don't see how it could work for.. lets say Tau. I mean... are there really that many differences between the individual septs? I also hope that GW won't use this as an excuse for an Marine overkill, and I say that as an DA player.
Kroot Mercenaries as a supplement for Tau could work.
Other than that, there are two ideas that come to mind for me. An expansion that showcases some of the highly experimental prototypes that the Earth Caste are coming out with, stuffed with highly effective (but with heavy drawbacks) gear and upgrades to use, and an expansion that goes into more detail with the Farsight Enclave.
There is no reason why they couldn't have made a supplement with all 5 of the major Craftworlds instead of just Iyanden. They did it before with Codex: Craftworld Eldar in the 3rd edition. That might have justified the price they are asking for this new supplement. How many pages do they honestly need to dedicate to new rules for Iyanden? Especially since you still need Codex: Eldar to use it. Codex: Craftworld Eldar had about 2 pages per Craftworld, and that was enough to make each one unique.
One supplement book per army to cover the major factions would be reasonable. By splitting it up like this, it will take them until 9th edition to do supplemental rules for all of the factions that deserve them.
It's a bad sign when people think GW prices are ok, inthink I must be sone kind of brain washing!
In all seriousness they really should utilize WD more. Every couple of month's jout some new rules for a sub faction, just like what they used to do. Thus would get people buying the mag again. Or keep the Codex very small with only rules in, keep the entry cost down (yeah I know its GW) and provide a separate full colour hardback book with pretty picture and whatnot. They could charge a fair bit for one of those books as you dont 'need' it but people would buy it anyway.
Da Butcha wrote: Again, I can't believe that (some) people are okay with this.
The price is reasonable for the quality of the book? Have you looked at other games? Other gaming companies? Paizo puts out Pathfinder, and their $50 rulebooks are about 4 times as long as these books, and are entirely full color as well.
Good to have the option for your favorite Craftworld/Klan/Legion? There aren't a whole ton of new rules in this book, from all appearances, and it seems like it would have been totally easy to roll out those rules in an actual Codex. I can't be the only guy who owns a ton of Orks and is dreading the thought of buying a Codex Supplement Blood Axes, Codex Supplement Death Skulls, Codex Supplement Goffs, Codex Supplement Evil Suns, Codex Supplement Bad Moons, and Codex Supplement Snakebites.
I'm all for more awesome artwork and background stuff, but give me a book of that stuff, and give me a book of rules, with a minor amount of background and art. Don't sell me a few pages of rules in each of a series of $50 hardcovers.
People are still jazzed about the prospect of getting a supplement for their favorite faction. Will they be as jazzed if three years go by and there's no supplement for their faction? What if the core rulebook changes before you get a supplement, and GW goes back away from supplemental codexes? What if you wait a couple years, get your awesome supplement finally, and GW changes editions and makes it irrelevant?
GW has done supplemental codexes before.
What makes this version of it so much better and more successful than the last time they did it? If they abandoned it once before as a bad/problematic/unprofitable idea, what did they fix this time? Why will it work now when it didn't work before? Why is the idea of having a theme-able list in the basic codex not sufficient?
GW keeps saying that they are a model company, so why do they keep trying to find new ways of flogging books? Instead of moving to a model where rules (at least) are inexpensive and easily available (to encourage people to buy the models), GW is trickling out rules in multiple, more expensive books. Did this work for any other company?
They need to make it easier for people to start collecting an army, or collecting a new army. They were on the right track with things like Kill Team and Allies, which allow and encourage you to start playing small, and to consider buying supplemental armies. Then they go in the exact opposite direction with expensive rulebooks (and expensive supplemental rulebooks).
People complain NOW about GW's erratic proofreading, balancing, and game design. Is having more rules spread across more books going to improve that?
Maybe I'm wrong, but it just seems like GW is trying to get out of a hole by digging faster.
Just to clarify: I love Iyanden, I love the idea of an Iyanden themed army, and I love the idea of GW rules supporting a LOT of different themes in a LOT of different armies. I just don't think $50 supplemental Codexes are, in any way, the best way to accomplish this.
Couple of observations
You mentioned the price three times. $ 50 does not get you far in 40K and that isn't about to change.
Up top you indicate that for the price they should be providing more rules but down below that more rules just creates problems with game design. So which is it?
Why do you think there wont be many rules in this book? By all accounts so far it seems to have a lot of specific content from what they have shown?
I think all the "what if's" around what GW will do as far as rules and potential impact to our existing armies will always be a risk in a game that updates it's game system and is not specifically a problem with individual army codexes.
Vaeloris wrote: There is no reason why they couldn't have made a supplement with all 5 of the major Craftworlds instead of just Iyanden. They did it before with Codex: Craftworld Eldar in the 3rd edition. That might have justified the price they are asking for this new supplement. How many pages do they honestly need to dedicate to new rules for Iyanden? Especially since you still need Codex: Eldar to use it. Codex: Craftworld Eldar had about 2 pages per Craftworld, and that was enough to make each one unique.
One supplement book per army to cover the major factions would be reasonable. By splitting it up like this, it will take them until 9th edition to do supplemental rules for all of the factions that deserve them.
I guess the one thought is by doing it this way, they can spread out the Eldar sales. Right now they made a bunch of new wraith kits, so it makes sense Iyanden is on the forefront. We've heard/seen for a while now that new jetbikes are on their way at some point, so it makes sense that those will come out at a later time along an Saim-Hann book.
The other thing to keep in mind is how fast books have been pumped out. We've had 5 codex releases since 6th dropped last summer, and we'll probably see at least one more if not two based on the current rate before the end of 2013. There had been rumors that they wanted to update all the books and then focus on other things, so this could be a possibility as to why.
Or think of it this way... in the release window they may come out with these supplement books and a couple models in a calendar slot that is too tight to do a full army release. Perhaps in the fall we'll see one army get a codex while another 6th ed codex gets a supplement in a different month.
It all comes down to how they execute it of course, but honestly for the most part I've been really happy with GW's moves since 6th dropped so I'll remain cautiously optimistic.
Yeah, I have the sneaking suspicion that (assuming Iyanden doesn't bomb horribly and convince GW to give up the idea entirely) we'll see new supplementary codices coming out in conjunction with new mini waves for various armies over the course of 6th.
So a new Jetbike/Vyper kit might see a Saim-hann book, etc.
I expect that guard will get a supplement for chachans as opposed to the cadians that seemed to dominate the IG book.
tau could get kroot mercs or farsight. both seem equally doable, but kroot has been rumored anyway.
I expect BT for the space marines, if they don't get their normal codex back. Salamanders, Imperial fists and raven guard seem too strongly codex but white scars could get some work.
Orks have the cult of speed, which would work well with this idea and everyone wants genestealer cults for nids.
I don't know enough about Dark eldar or crons to make any guesses for them and the other marine chapters are already, kinda splinter factions themselves. I don't think it would be easy to make supplements for them.
This is all speculation of course. I'm just thinking in words.
Yup because what Nid army can't use a bunch of machine guns mounted on limos.
I'm all for cults, but they definitely need a brand new look that is completely unrecognisable from their past.
In defense of the Iyanden suppliment. That's my brand of Eldar so I couldn't be more excited for any book based on them. I hated the Eldar Codex before release, but now looking at it as a whole I admit I was wrong it's not the greatest thing ever but it's miles better than what we had and that gives me hope for this, $50.00 be dammned, I'll buy it.
While it would be nice to have lots of supplements there are only a few that really need doing. Iyanden is one of them because its more than just wraithguard as troops.
Blood Axe, Farsight Enclave and Alpha Legion all pretty much top my list, each because of its separatist nature and links to human groups.
The other notable addition for different reasons is the Deathwatch, because it needs doing and probably otherwise wont be.
I think supplements have a place. I think the move of GW lately has been to find pieces from the olden days that worked and promoted growth. Returning to their roots in a sense.
Iyanden has possibilities because of its uniqueness among craft worlds. Rule possibilities include Hatred:Tyranids, Eldritch raiders (as a guardian upgrade like the CSM zombie cultists). The could take a page out of FW book and expand heavy slots in the FOC. With wraiths as troops you don't really need as many Elite slots. WLords and WKnights get access to flak missiles? Easy changes that could make Wraith armies more intriguing.
Bonuses for DE allies thanks to the assistance of the Kabal of the Wraithkind?
Yup because what Nid army can't use a bunch of machine guns mounted on limos.
I'm all for cults, but they definitely need a brand new look that is completely unrecognisable from their past.
In defense of the Iyanden suppliment. That's my brand of Eldar so I couldn't be more excited for any book based on them. I hated the Eldar Codex before release, but now looking at it as a whole I admit I was wrong it's not the greatest thing ever but it's miles better than what we had and that gives me hope for this, $50.00 be dammned, I'll buy it.
If marines can be mounted on wolves then nids can sure as hell have machine guns mounted on limos.
SickSix wrote: I do think charging as much as the main codex is bollucks. So Iyanden players pay twice what regular space elf players pay to field there armies.
BT players should accept what is coming.
I would love a Kroot mercenaries book. But if it requires Tau to play it should not cost the same.
Codex is $49.99 USD and the Expansion is $39.99 and comes with the Altar of War stuff for Iyanden which is another $7.99 normally if you were buying the codex. So realistically you're paying $32 USD for the expansion, $7.99 for the Altar of War missions and still coming in $10 cheaper than the codex.
How I see it, I know this Iyanden supplement still requires the main codex, which I think is the inherit flaw. Seriously, you can have codex space marines along with their sub-armies like blood angels, space wolves, dark angels, and black templars, who are all apparently unique and can use their own codex, but Iyanden has to be a supplement and use the main rule book.
Come on GW, I'll admit I support them more than most, but they could honestly come out with a codex Iyanden that is self-contained and doesn't require the Eldar codex and I would gladly pay $50 for that. But it seems pretty clear that it is not meant to be on its own and therefore loses my purchase. Overall though, I would love to see more supplements for factions that really are sub-armies to main forces such as Kroot Auxiliary or Mechanicum or even Traitor Legions. At least something to give more variety to other armies compared to spess mahreens.
Even if the rules in this 'codex' are much more extensive than we're expecting, I think this book is a fairly transparent attempt to drive sales of Wraithknights and Wraithguard. GW makes rules to sell model kits. Unless GW have big model releases planned for Genestealer Cults or Thousand Sons, I wouldn't put any money on seeing supplements for them. I reckon any further supplements we see will be in the same vein as this one - Codex: Please buy more of our latest gigantic model kits.
I think we'd all be far happier if this release had been Codex Eldar and then two weeks later Codex: Eldar Craftworlds, with rules for all the major craftworlds. Who wants 7 $80 books just to have rules for Craftworlds?
Temujin wrote: Even if the rules in this 'codex' are much more extensive than we're expecting, I think this book is a fairly transparent attempt to drive sales of Wraithknights and Wraithguard. GW makes rules to sell model kits. Unless GW have big model releases planned for Genestealer Cults or Thousand Sons, I wouldn't put any money on seeing supplements for them. I reckon any further supplements we see will be in the same vein as this one - Codex: Please buy more of our latest gigantic model kits.
I think we've seen enough brand new kits that are complete garbage that won't see the table top for any other reason than, I'm rich and for the lulz.
GW rules to models correlation is random at best.
SickSix wrote: I do think charging as much as the main codex is bollucks. So Iyanden players pay twice what regular space elf players pay to field there armies.
BT players should accept what is coming.
I would love a Kroot mercenaries book. But if it requires Tau to play it should not cost the same.
Codex is $49.99 USD and the Expansion is $39.99 and comes with the Altar of War stuff for Iyanden which is another $7.99 normally if you were buying the codex. So realistically you're paying $32 USD for the expansion, $7.99 for the Altar of War missions and still coming in $10 cheaper than the codex.
So no, not the same cost.
That's an extremely flawed argument. As far as we know now, this book will contain a somewhat significant amount of rules and wargear that is perfectly legal to use in an army, so what a codex supplement should be! Good so far . So then they decide, "well hey, this isn't expensive enough yet, let's jack up the price by making it on pretty paper and filling it mostly with fluff and pictures." And then they say, "hey, still not enough, let's add in the Altar of War missions!" So now when somebody wants to buy the rules to play their Iyanden army to its fullest potential, they are also paying for an artbook, and a set of missions they may not have wanted. Just because it comes with more stuff doesn't make it worth the cost, it just forces you to buy things you don't want to get the things you do. So no, it's not 32 bucks for the expansion and 8 for the missions, it's 40 for the whole lot when that should have stayed separate.
I think anyone who plays Iyanden would be very happy about having their fluff expanded for the craftworld that they probably picked for the fluff and artwork in the first place.
Its a ripoff, sure, but people will buy it regardless because it's their army.
I just want to know if the book is stand alone or just a supplement? Like if a person legitimately only wanted to play Iyanden, could he just pick up this book and be ready to go? Or is it going to be like 3rd edition where you get the book and half the entries say 'See Codex:Eldar'.
To be honest though, I'd have considered the book a good buy if it was just artwork and fiction (so long as it's a lot of fiction as the Eldar codex has nothing new) and a couple scenarios to play.
That's an extremely flawed argument. As far as we know now, this book will contain a somewhat significant amount of rules and wargear that is perfectly legal to use in an army, so what a codex supplement should be! Good so far . So then they decide, "well hey, this isn't expensive enough yet, let's jack up the price by making it on pretty paper and filling it mostly with fluff and pictures." And then they say, "hey, still not enough, let's add in the Altar of War missions!" So now when somebody wants to buy the rules to play their Iyanden army to its fullest potential, they are also paying for an artbook, and a set of missions they may not have wanted. Just because it comes with more stuff doesn't make it worth the cost, it just forces you to buy things you don't want to get the things you do. So no, it's not 32 bucks for the expansion and 8 for the missions, it's 40 for the whole lot when that should have stayed separate.
If this would've been small soft-cover supplement, how you assume they'd have priced it? Old B&W soft-cover codices are 26 euros, only three euros less than this hard-cover full colour book. At most this is few euros people are quibbling over. It is utterly insignificant.
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Nvs wrote: I just want to know if the book is stand alone or just a supplement? Like if a person legitimately only wanted to play Iyanden, could he just pick up this book and be ready to go? Or is it going to be like 3rd edition where you get the book and half the entries say 'See Codex:Eldar'.
To be honest though, I'd have considered the book a good buy if it was just artwork and fiction (so long as it's a lot of fiction as the Eldar codex has nothing new) and a couple scenarios to play.
It is a supplement, you need the regular Eldar book as well.
The price may be high, but if thats the issue for you just don't buy it. The codex has enough in it to play an Iyanden themed force as it is, this is just another way to play it. It isn't required to play. It's the same as buying a Forgeworld book; most of the lists in those books reference their parent Codex for the majority of the units, and give you the rules for the new units and abilities.
If you want to play with the rules, then great! Go get it, but its an option, not a requirement.
I like it a lot. It gives you options, and I do like me some options. I play CSM, and while I will buy a Word Bearers supplement, I'm not also going to go out and buy the Alpha Legion, Iron Warriors, and Night Lords books. I would WANT to play with them, but not HAVE to.
That's an extremely flawed argument. As far as we know now, this book will contain a somewhat significant amount of rules and wargear that is perfectly legal to use in an army, so what a codex supplement should be! Good so far . So then they decide, "well hey, this isn't expensive enough yet, let's jack up the price by making it on pretty paper and filling it mostly with fluff and pictures." And then they say, "hey, still not enough, let's add in the Altar of War missions!" So now when somebody wants to buy the rules to play their Iyanden army to its fullest potential, they are also paying for an artbook, and a set of missions they may not have wanted. Just because it comes with more stuff doesn't make it worth the cost, it just forces you to buy things you don't want to get the things you do. So no, it's not 32 bucks for the expansion and 8 for the missions, it's 40 for the whole lot when that should have stayed separate.
If this would've been small soft-cover supplement, how you assume they'd have priced it? Old B&W soft-cover codices are 26 euros, only three euros less than this hard-cover full colour book. At most this is few euros people are quibbling over. It is utterly insignificant.
I'd have this as an option, full color, harback and all at the price it is now, but this would be the collector's edition. The regular edition would be like the old codexes, softcover, black and white, no altar of war missions, and price it at 20 or 25 US dollars.
If GW is about to launch a wave of supplements I hope they write some clear rules for exactly what the supplement is.
For example:
Is it an army of its own, and thus possible to ad as allies to a regular eldar codex?
Probably not.
But then, if its not a army of its self, can I just ad Iyanden units to a regular army, or, perhaps get a yellow wraith lord as hq for my second FOC in a 2000+ army?
This could lead for some serious FOC abuse and hot debate if its not made perfectly clear from the start.
Some people want this book and are not troubled by the price tag.
Heck, I want the book; I can afford the price tag; I've ordered the book.
It still doesn't address my concerns about this move by GW:
They have done supplemental codexes before, and they decided to stop doing them. Why did they stop doing them? According to their own statements, supplemental codexes required the player to buy multiple books to play their army, and created confusion with rules references across multiple books.
Evidently, before the advent of digital editions and easier piracy, and before competition with a larger, more diverse wargaming business, GW didn't think that multiple books made good business sense.
Now, when people can easily pirate material from the web hours after release, GW thinks that more expensive hardback supplemental codexes are the way to go. How does that make sense?
I think people think that I (and other naysayers) either don't want to spend money on GW, or don't want supplemental codices. At least for me, neither of those is the case.
I'm very happy to have tons of supplemental materials. I'd probably be one of those completists who would like to have all of them, in fact.
However, I still think GW could make more money and have a stronger business by making it easier and less expensive to get this stuff. I think that a cheaper supplement would be purchased by more people (and more people would then also buy the models which GW keeps saying are their bread and butter). I think a more comprehensive supplement would be purchased by more people (and more people would also buy the models, as well). I dont see the business sense in an expensive, narrowly tailored supplement.
How many people who would pay this money for an Iyanden expansion wouldn't pay the same (or more) for an expansion with all the Craftworlds? Wouldn't that book have more buyers? Wouldn't that book have more add-on sales, since it wouldn't be just promoting wraith units?
If making the Space Wolf, Blood Angel, Dark Angel, Catachan, and Eye of Terror sub-dexes was not a good business move (and GW said it wasn't, and went towards single codexes), what makes Iyanden a good idea? Is Iyanden more popular as an expansion to Eldar than Space Wolves were as an expansion to Space Marines?
I play Iyanden, and I won't buy this book unless I'm completely convinced that the rules provide me with a significant change and actually improves the army's game play vs. just building a Iyanden themed list from the main codex. Adding wargear, etc. isn't enough for me. Especially since most of the wargear in the codex is kind of useless.
Sorry, I should have been clearer on this. GW is, presumably, concerned about their declining share of the market of wargames.
If you want to increase your share of the market, you lower the barriers to entry. You make it easier for people to start collecting (or expanding their collection) of your game. New games have done this by offering free rules, or two-player battle boxes.
GW has offered 'starter boxes' at a good value (relative to the rest of the line). They have made rules like Kill Team and Allies, which allow you to field a small collection of miniatures in the game without a large initial investment in the army. So, they have taken actions which suggest that they do, in fact, want to increase their market share by making the game have a lower barrier to entry.
Then, they put out an optional supplement which does not include all the rules, and which is priced almost as high as a codex itself.
It's already not an inconsequential amount of money for someone to start a 40K army, with the need for a rule book, as well as a codex, as well as miniatures. If new players are presented with a game system that might require the purchase of three books to play a specific army build, or other game systems which require no more than one or two books, the second game system becomes 'easier' to adopt.
If you want to encourage veteran players to start a new army, or expand their existing army along a new theme, offering to sell them a pricey book so that they CAN buy more models also seems misguided. It would be like requiring a paid membership to GW to buy models from their website. I'm making the assumption that GW wants to increase overall market share and increase model sales through this move, and it seems like, of all the possible ways to do so, one of the least efficient.
Assuming that our dreams come true and GW releases dozens of supplemental codexes, the avid collectors and loyal players may well be very happy, but the potential new customer sees a game with DOZENS of rulebooks. Sure, you can assure them that you don't need to buy all of those supplements, but is that market strategy making your game more attractive than the competition who offer a few core books?
Alternatively, looking outside just wargaming, see what Paizo does with rulebooks. Their core rulebooks, the ones you need to play the game, are $10 as PDFs. They offer a very low cost of entry to the game, and then assume (successfully, I might add), that new players will like the game and pay more for the additional rules. That's also a valid strategy which has a proven track record, but not one which GW has adopted, despite being a 'model company' in their own words.
Death By Monkeys wrote: @ashikenshin - That Codex: Ultramarines you wanted? It's called Codex: Space Marines...you know, just in case you didn't notice that there are more Ultramarine special characters in the book than any other Chapter.
To be fair, only by 1, and nobody uses Chronus, Telion, Tigurius or Calgar... In fact, the only Ultramarines Character I've seen used is Sicarius, and I've played a lot of Ultrmarine players x/ Whereas all the other I've seen 3 or 4 times :3
Use em or not, they are there...
They may be there, but they suck ass. They may as well just not be there at all to be honest, the only problem I can see with this whole new SM dex not based on Ultramarines is(!): What are they going to do with all the in production resin models that they made for all the Ultramarines guys? They'd have to make a Codex supplement for them or release more special characters (which are not needed) to balance the whole thing out, both of these options'd kinda suck to be honest :/
"take a Wraithknight as your Warlord" , seems like a thinly veiled attempt to sell models...again. Also this seems like something they could have just put in the Eldar Codex, but no they want you to buy another $50 book. I wonder how Tournaments are going to treat this.
I plan on making an Iyanden allied force and do not care to purchase the book. A few new warlord traits and wargear items just simply isn't enough for me. Plus, I do not wish to see this concept of supplements succeed for several reasons:
1. I collect every codex and do not care to spend money on additional supplements.
2. I'm primarily a Space Marines player and again, I do not care to purchase 3+ books to play my army. (rulebook + codex + supplement)
I don't think there would have been such push back from the community if they would have done a supplement that was as large as a codex (104 pages) and included all of the popular Craft Worlds. I think what myself and other are really in fear of is the release of several small supplements and get pushed into buying several very expensive books.
Da Butcha wrote: If making the Space Wolf, Blood Angel, Dark Angel, Catachan, and Eye of Terror sub-dexes was not a good business move (and GW said it wasn't, and went towards single codexes), what makes Iyanden a good idea? Is Iyanden more popular as an expansion to Eldar than Space Wolves were as an expansion to Space Marines?
What is or isn't a good idea can change over time as other factors change. For me, the Iyanden book is great. I can't wait to buy it. I'm so happy GW is doing this. Whether this will make GW a stronger or weaker business, I am aware that I don't have the information to judge that.
Death By Monkeys wrote: @ashikenshin - That Codex: Ultramarines you wanted? It's called Codex: Space Marines...you know, just in case you didn't notice that there are more Ultramarine special characters in the book than any other Chapter.
Probably because it's always been Codex: Ultramarines. They just had to change the name after 2nd Edition because it was too confusing to new players which Codex was supposed to be just for Space Marines.
A marketing decision on packaging, nothing more. The paint guides have always been on how to paint Ultramarines too. Heck, in 4th it was called "How to Paint Ultramarines".
Sorry, I should have been clearer on this. GW is, presumably, concerned about their declining share of the market of wargames.
Great points. Although I dont know enough about what GW is concerned about from a business perspective. Some companies restrict market share intentionally to focus on a niche less price sensitive market. It often is associated with premier deluxe products like sports cars or any high end product. Although that may seem ultimately unfair to consumers it is a business model.
Spartan089 wrote: "take a Wraithknight as your Warlord" , seems like a thinly veiled attempt to sell models...again. Also this seems like something they could have just put in the Eldar Codex, but no they want you to buy another $50 book. I wonder how Tournaments are going to treat this.
Umm are you trying to imply the things GW does is all in an effort to get more of your money?!
It's not "take a Wraithknight as an HQ". It changes nothing about what models are in an army.
Yes it does when you can take a substantially harder to kill unit such as the wraith knight as your HQ (I'm pretty sure they are going to allow it as an HQ choice if it can be your warlord) leaving 3 other slots open for more wraith knights. We don't even know if it will get any special wargear or rules (maybe a +2++3 or eternal warrior upgrade)
I may be jumping the gun, the book hasn't come out yet, but its GW's MO to do things like this to sell models, why wouldn't they not want you buy another $115 model.
It's just an optional supplement, people. GW isn't going to continue these things if they don't sell well. If you're worried about it, don't spend money on it.
As for GW coming up with ways to sell more models: yes, that's what businesses do. They try to sell their stuff. Money to keep their business going (and growing) doesn't come from nowhere. Concurrently, if that rubs you the wrong way, don't buy Wraithknights. Our money drives this business, not our internet whining.
Why would you want to take a Lord or Knight as your warlord anyway? A lot of warlord traits affect the whole unit.. and a HQ inside a unit is much tougher to kill than a MC.
Kirasu wrote: Why would you want to take a Lord or Knight as your warlord anyway? A lot of warlord traits affect the whole unit.. and a HQ inside a unit is much tougher to kill than a MC.
Oh well..spend money!
Iyanden have their own Warlord table, so you may find some of them suit MC Warlords quite well.
I mean, no points, which sucks, but does it indicate a desire to revive the Cult? I hope so!!! I would buy Codex: Genestealer Cults in a heartbeat, even if I had to buy Codex: Tyranids just for the specially-omiited-from-supplement Genestealer rules.
JWhex wrote: I think supplements a re a great idea, but one craftworld for 50 dollars, that is lamesauce.
Someone already mentioned this, it isn't $50, it's about $40.
So after discounters it's about £19 (£15 would've been nicer but hey).
According to itunes the print length is 121 pages (half the codex).
I won't be buying it but it doesn't seem that unreasonable, and there's always the inevitable torrented scans.
While I am all for armies receiving supplemental rules for sub factions, I think that the previous method of doing it would have worked better, ie. one codex for all the craftworlds with say 10 pages of fluff and 2-3 pages of rules for each.
That I think would mean that most if not all eldar players would buy the book (even if it was the same price as a codex) rather than a small proportion buying each book (except for the die hard collectors).
I remember reading that the Iyanden codex has something like 50 pages of fluff in it. Where did all this background come from as I was not aware the craftworlds had that much individual background?
IMO, I don't particularly care too much about the different Houses of Iyanden in a meaningful way, UNLESS they come with a special rule for each (perhaps applied to wraithguard and wraith blades for x points per model) to upgrade the Ghost Warriors to members of a particular House. That would be cool.
5 Spirit seers per HQ does sound cool though. Those guys are pretty awesome in the new codex.
Plus, I think a player would really have to care about a particular craftworlds background in order to spend this amount of money on it for what will probably amount to a small amount of rules.
I am a fan of the differing wargear and warlord traits though.
I may pick this book up depending on how much it costs on physical release (I don't have an Ipad) but will probably try and get a pdf of it first to look at.
I have little to no interest in a saim hann book as I have no jetbikes or vypers (and no plans to get any) but ulthwe and biel tan would be very interesting to me as the seers and aspect warriors are the main part of what attracted me to Eldar in the first place.
Alaitoc I am not really fussed by as I only have 10 rangers and no plans to get any more.
I remember reading that the Iyanden codex has something like 50 pages of fluff in it. Where did all this background come from as I was not aware the craftworlds had that much individual background?
I remember reading that the Iyanden codex has something like 50 pages of fluff in it. Where did all this background come from as I was not aware the craftworlds had that much individual background?
Where do you think any fluff comes from?
OK Fair point, but I am hoping they haven't invented a load of rubbish background just to pad out the expensive book when 10 pages of well written fluff as part of a Craftworld book would have been better.
My 2¢, I love the supplement idea. I own all the original supplements and feel that they would allow for more flavor and at a faster pace than the snails crawl of a codex here and there. Now I am not happy about the price. They shouldn't be over $20-25, but hey what insane world do I live in?
I remember reading that the Iyanden codex has something like 50 pages of fluff in it. Where did all this background come from as I was not aware the craftworlds had that much individual background?
Death By Monkeys wrote: @ashikenshin - That Codex: Ultramarines you wanted? It's called Codex: Space Marines...you know, just in case you didn't notice that there are more Ultramarine special characters in the book than any other Chapter.
To be fair, only by 1, and nobody uses Chronus, Telion, Tigurius or Calgar... In fact, the only Ultramarines Character I've seen used is Sicarius, and I've played a lot of Ultrmarine players x/ Whereas all the other I've seen 3 or 4 times :3
Use em or not, they are there...
They may be there, but they suck ass. They may as well just not be there at all to be honest, the only problem I can see with this whole new SM dex not based on Ultramarines is(!): What are they going to do with all the in production resin models that they made for all the Ultramarines guys? They'd have to make a Codex supplement for them or release more special characters (which are not needed) to balance the whole thing out, both of these options'd kinda suck to be honest :/
Doesn't matter if they are good or what you want to use, they are there, they have rules and fluff... they have several entries, while other chapters have what, one each?
Description for video preview for on youtube from GW says "The first in a new range of Codex supplements beginning with Iyanden - A Codex: Eldar supplement."
I'm a little suspect of the content now as I just saw the page length. 121 Pages is a little short for any significant amount of rules as apparently this book is mainly for fluff and fringe games like cities of death and planetstrike.
I'm a little suspect of the content now as I just saw the page length. 121 Pages is a little short for any significant amount of rules as apparently this book is mainly for fluff and fringe games like cities of death and planetstrike.
I gotta question if you own any GW codices? Almost none are over 121 pages so the above comment makes little sense.
Minx wrote: The page breaks are different on GW digital books. 121 pages are akin to 60 pages on paper.
Edit: i most likely mixed up the page count. The digital book has more than 121 pages, hasn't it. Sorry, for the confusion.
Now this I didn't know.
According to iBooks, the Eldar codex is 214 pages. I suppose it's for all the added stuff like painting guides.
If that is the case it makes the digital version much better quality than the hardcopy.
If I get Codex Iyanden, I'll post up some tidbits.
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Army Of Iyanden Rules:
Voice of Twilight - replaces Conceal as the Primaris
Blessing. Warp Charge 2.
Gives ALL Wraith BATTLE FOCUS AND FURIOUS CHARGE in a 12" bubble.
Warlord Traits:
1) Roll a D3 - Warlord gets this many rerolls for To Hit, To Wound, Armour Pen and Saves.
2) All friendly units FNP 6+ within 12".
3) Warlord and unit - Hatred.
4) Spirit Mark up to two enemy units per turn.
5) +1 to Deny The Witch.
6) Warlord ReRolls all failed armour saves. If he loses a wound, he loses this trait.
Gifts of Asuryan
Celestial Lance
It's a lance like the Shining Spears get with AP2 and Str 8 when shooting. Has Spirit Shatter: if you kill a Character or MC put a large blast where it died. Str is equal to the dead things toughness. AP -
Soulshrive
AP 2 Master Crafted Melee weapon with STR 3* and Spiritstealer - add one to the strength of the weapon for each unsaved wound made.
Wraithforge Stone
During the Movement Phase, nominate a single Wraithlord or Wraithknight and roll a D6. 1 or 2, nothing happens. 3+ it regains a wound suffered earlier in the battle.
Guardian Helm of Xellethon
Auto Pass Look Out Sir when in WG or WB units. WG and WB in this unit can make and accept challenges.
Spear of Teuthlas - Psyker Only.
Singing Spear, Str 9 at range. Has Rending, Armourbane and Fleshbane.
Heroes of Iyanden.
A Wraithlord or Wraithknight may be the Warlord.
Actually, reading the fluff a bit more (and considering its Ward) it's actually coming together a bit better as it moves on.
The stuff about Yriel and the Angel of Iyanden is AWESOMESAUCE.
No new units or characters and yes, you can use everything from codex Eldar.
Only things you must do to use a Wraith Army is use the traits, use the new Spiritseer primaris (which is broken) and remember to take Spiritseers in units of five for one hq and nominate a Wraithlord or Wraithknight as Warlord.
Only things you must do to use a Wraith Army is use the traits, use the new Spiritseer primaris (which is broken) and remember to take Spiritseers in units of five for one hq and nominate a Wraithlord or Wraithknight as Warlord.
Wait, you seem to be saying that there must be five spiritseers and the warlord must be a wraith. That can't be right...
haroon wrote: So if I want to take a forge world unit which is a choice fast attack choice in codex eldar that would not violate the rules of the supplement ?
Last question, are the rules you posed pretty much it rules wise for normal 40k?
No restrictions to units whatsoever.
Those are literally all the rules. No others.
As for Spiritseers, you can take upto five as one HQ - which you should.
You can also take a Wraithlord or Wraithknight as a Warlord - could be worth it.
I can see Yriel being really good in this army when paired with a Spiritseer with the Guardian Helm and a large unit of Wraith.
With what I understand of Voice of Twilight, the Spiritseer council of 5 is absolutely something I would include. It may be optional, but it's too tasty to NOT take.
shade1313 wrote: With what I understand of Voice of Twilight, the Spiritseer council of 5 is absolutely something I would include. It may be optional, but it's too tasty to NOT take.
It's awesome for sure but in a wraith army I don't think you will the points for 5.
shade1313 wrote: With what I understand of Voice of Twilight, the Spiritseer council of 5 is absolutely something I would include. It may be optional, but it's too tasty to NOT take.
It's awesome for sure but in a wraith army I don't think you will the points for 5.
