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Post by: I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly
I would like to see expanded/redone infantry boxes (normal troops, vets, stormtroopers, whatever) and the gaps in the artillery section filled in.
For new stuff, I hope we get a 40k attack jet (forgeworld has several designs already) to add to the 40k helicopter/jet gunships we have already. I hope that if IG do get a big new kit it is a heavy tank (Leman russes are heavy, but there is definitely a potential role for tanks starting at 200-250pts in the codex) rather than some shoehorned-in walker. Not everything needs legs!
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Post by: Tower75
Ooh, a Horus Heresy-era tank sounds fun. So, I'm thinking something bigger and more: ''Ave it!' then a Baneblade, or Stormlord, I assume. Hope so, other wise, what would be the point. 
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Post by: Brother SRM
"Horus Heresy tank" sounds vague and wishlisty.
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Post by: Lobokai
Love to see one of the larger command vehicles... That would be cool and not remove the Baneblade from its perch.
Like a Capitol Imperialis, though a command Malcador would be fine too
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Post by: Formosa
A horus heresy guard tank... Either a rhino or land raider
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Post by: Kanluwen
 Formosa wrote:A horus heresy guard tank... Either a rhino or land raider
The Leman Russ Vanquisher and Executioner are both "Horus Heresy Guard tanks", as is the Destroyer tank hunter.
Most likely any kind of "Horus Heresy Guard tank"(really "Imperial Army Tanks") is going to be something new not a Rhino or Land Raider.
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Post by: Azreal13
I am liking the apparent new direction the Codexes are going with regard to thematic list building, Chapter Tactics, Doctrines, the rumoured Biomorphs in the Nid book...
Shame the idea didn't seem to pop up before the CSM dex, but I guess there's always next time!
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Post by: Moopy
Knight Titan makes no sense. They're guarding forge-worlds and aren't part of the IG.
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Post by: alarmingrick
 Moopy wrote:Knight Titan makes no sense. They're guarding forge-worlds and aren't part of the IG.
Overall, I completely agree. But I could see the IG teaming with them to protect a planet. Weak, but I could see it.
As been said before, it seems "wish-listy" to me.
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Post by: Palindrome
 Lobukia wrote:
Like a Capitol Imperialis, though a command Malcador would be fine too
A Capitol Imperialis would take up half the table. I for one would like there to be no 'cool toys' in the new 'Dex, just a solid and well balanced list.
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Post by: MeanGreenStompa
 Palindrome wrote: Lobukia wrote:
Like a Capitol Imperialis, though a command Malcador would be fine too
A Capitol Imperialis would take up half the table. I for one would like there to be no 'cool toys' in the new 'Dex, just a solid and well balanced list.
There will, of course, be new toys in the dex, because that's how GW makes money.
What would be amazing was if they were small models, units, updates from current metal and finecasts and not yet another huge thingy that will take up yet more of the table.
New plastics for some of the old regiments would be great, mordian iron guard and valhallans for example. Oh and Ogryns.
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Post by: Palindrome
Its how GW tries to make money.
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Post by: Kanluwen
 MeanGreenStompa wrote: Palindrome wrote: Lobukia wrote:
Like a Capitol Imperialis, though a command Malcador would be fine too
A Capitol Imperialis would take up half the table. I for one would like there to be no 'cool toys' in the new 'Dex, just a solid and well balanced list.
There will, of course, be new toys in the dex, because that's how GW makes money.
What would be amazing was if they were small models, units, updates from current metal and finecasts and not yet another huge thingy that will take up yet more of the table.
New plastics for some of the old regiments would be great, mordian iron guard and valhallans for example. Oh and Ogryns.
I don't think old regiments are likely, but Ogryns might be.
They seem to be moving towards a pattern of:
One or two big kits
One to three "standard" kits.
A plastic character kit or a bundle/kit option of some kind including a plastic character.
Absolute spitballing?
Imperial Guard Company Command Squad box(similar to the Reclusiam Command Squad) with:
Chimera
Cadian Command Squad
Plastic Commissar or plastic Primaris Psyker
Ogryn box with two build options:
Ogryn "Assault Squad" with huge honking two handed weapons and a more savage look.
Ogryn "Support Squad" with Ripper Guns and something else. Maybe Heavy Bolter options or some kind of "Huge Shields" that they carry around in addition to their Ripper Guns?
Veteran box with two build options(we've already heard about this one though):
Stormtroopers/Carapace Armored Veterans. Options for 'standard' Lasguns for the Carapace Veterans or backpack wired 'Hellguns' for the Stormtroopers.
Light infantry Veterans. Cloaks, lighter torsos, etc.
Big kit speculation:
Hydra/Hydra variant kit.
Some kind of "Command Vehicle" that outwardly has very little armament but when used as a transport option for the Company Command Squad and its advisors gives all kinds of sweet bonuses.
Less likely is the Thunderbolt.
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Post by: Paradigm
I must admit I'd like something bigger than a Russ. The hellhound variants are light tanks, the Russ is a medium/main battle tank, and the Baneblade types are Super Heavy. So somewhere between MBT and SH there should be a 'heavy' class tank. Basically a Malcador or Macharius, but as they are FW any chance of a plastic kit is gone. Something in that size in plastic would be cool. Just not a walker.
I'd love to see a knight in an Ad Mech list, with everything else AM (who wouldn't want an Ad Mech codex?), but shoehorning one into the IG dex 'just because' would be a terrible idea.
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Post by: Kanluwen
 Paradigm wrote:
I'd love to see a knight in an Ad Mech list, with everything else AM (who wouldn't want an Ad Mech codex?), but shoehorning one into the IG dex 'just because' would be a terrible idea.
Oh please. There's really nothing out there regarding Knights which precludes them from appearing in the IG codex.
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Post by: MajorStoffer
Truth be told, I don't think GW could do a heavy tank as interesting as the Malcador/Macharius. I would like it, however, if they got regular 40k rules, as they're pretty mediocre superheavies, and wouldn't unbalance regular 40k anymore than the Riptide or Wraithknight (A good deal less actually, being measly heavily armoured tanks, not walkers disguised as MCs with standard weapons).
I'm less confident, however, that Ogryns or Ratlings will actually be refreshed. GW doesn't kill models very often, to say the least, but for some reason, these guys have never been made into finecast, where so much other crap has. It's entirely possible that they might be canned completely, with Veterans filling their old niche, and the old models usable as such.
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Post by: Kanluwen
 MajorStoffer wrote:Truth be told, I don't think GW could do a heavy tank as interesting as the Malcador/Macharius. I would like it, however, if they got regular 40k rules, as they're pretty mediocre superheavies, and wouldn't unbalance regular 40k anymore than the Riptide or Wraithknight (A good deal less actually, being measly heavily armoured tanks, not walkers disguised as MCs with standard weapons).
I'm less confident, however, that Ogryns or Ratlings will actually be refreshed. GW doesn't kill models very often, to say the least, but for some reason, these guys have never been made into finecast, where so much other crap has. It's entirely possible that they might be canned completely, with Veterans filling their old niche, and the old models usable as such.
You have no clue how happy Ogryns and Ratlings getting thrown out of the Codex would make me.
Which means it won't happen. 
If we're just wishlisting though, I'm hopeful for an actual dedicated human sniper team option with a unique kind of rifle.
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Post by: MajorStoffer
It all comes down to roles; most of the new codexes have relatively little redundancy in their units, with Marines as the exception because, as the poster boys, they have to have tons of models and units.
In the Imperial Guard, right now Veterans with Sniper rifles in a harker squad with a heavy weapon of your choice isn't much different in points cost than a Ratling squad, with better leadership and better firepower. Ogryns are mediocre close combat units in a shooty army with no reliable means to move them across the table. "Close combat Guard" consist of blobs with Commissars and power weapons, not Ogryns, and they do the job reasonably well, though not as well as in 5th.
So what role do these two models play? They don't fit the aesthetic or theme of the army whatsoever, and likely never sold well, hence never becoming finecast, as the small cost in re-tooling the metal molds for resin clearly wasn't worth it.
Rough Riders actually have a potential niche; mobile units for tying up particularly deadly ranged units with mediocre close combat skills, such as Devestators, everything Tau and various Aspects, amongst others. Forgeworld seems to take them seriously, as their Rough Rider rules are actually fairly good, for both Death Korps and the Tallarn ones they made. I'm not totally certain they'll stay horses when FW already produces awesome sci-fi cavalry, but I'm pretty sure they'll stick around.
Meanwhile, I imagine SWS will get removed from platoons, with Veterans filling that niche, especially if they get a 5 man kit (Doubtlessly at $50, but that's another matter entirely), with build options as sniper teams to replace ratlings, amongst others.
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Post by: Palindrome
Oh please. There's really nothing out there regarding Knights which precludes them from appearing in the IG codex.
The same could be said for including Marine squads in the IG codex, at least they are both part of the Imperium (unlike Knight housholds).
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Post by: Kanluwen
Palindrome wrote: Kanluwen wrote:
Oh please. There's really nothing out there regarding Knights which precludes them from appearing in the IG codex.
The same could be said for including Marine squads in the IG codex, at least they are both part of the Imperium (unlike Knight housholds).
The Knight "households" are entities that are essentially under the auspices of the Adeptus Mechanicus.
The Mechanicus is part of the Imperium and commonly part of the logistical and bureaucratic support for the Imperial Guard.
Unlike the Marines, there is no ruling that was handed down in the aftermath of the Horus Heresy preventing the Mechanicus from having direct influence on the Guard chain of command. As well there is another part to consider in that while the Mechanicus may not have their own Codex like the Marines, the new "Ally" rules actually allow for the whole "Guard with Marine Support" formations that we have seen in the fluff for quite some time.
Adding a Knight to the Guard Codex is not anywhere near the same thing as adding Marine squads to the Guard book though. It's taking what has previously been a background piece and adding it to the main game.
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Post by: Yonan
MajorStoffer wrote:In the Imperial Guard, right now Veterans with Sniper rifles in a harker squad with a heavy weapon of your choice isn't much different in points cost than a Ratling squad, with better leadership and better firepower.
You're looking at close to twice the price (180 - 100) for 3 sniper rifles and 2 heavy bolters compared to 10 sniper rifles, once you pick up harker and forward sentries, plus you can only have 1 harker unit compared to 3 ratling units. I see your point, but Harker sniper vets definitely doesn't invalidate ratlings. I was going to use Harker sniper vets with 2 ratling units in my Tanith First army though, so yeah they *are* a little simialr ; p
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Post by: Palindrome
Kanluwen wrote:
The Mechanicus is part of the Imperium and commonly part of the logistical and bureaucratic support for the Imperial Guard.
.
No, its not (unless the fluff has been retconned). The Ad Mech is a close ally of the Imperium, its basically a protectorate, but it isn't actually a formal part of the Imperium. The logistic and bureaucratic support for the Imperial guard is exclusively handled by the Departmento Munitorum.
Knights would rarely find themselves on the same battlefield as as guardsmen unless they were both part of the same crusade or something similar whereas Marines would almost always be fighting alongside guardsmen in some capacity and as such are a more appropriate inclusion in an Imperial Guard codex.
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Post by: ultimentra
Ratlings are also a bit physically easier to put inside terrain than a full harker squad as well.
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Post by: Agamemnon2
I agree that the auspices for ogryns are exceptionally bad. GW has never really tried to make them playable, and that's unlikely to change. Perhaps it's time for them to be put out of their misery, like the Squats were, which would invalidate three squads' worth of lovingly converted models from my army, and discourage me from ever returning to the game.
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Post by: Nym
Guys, if you really don't want Ogryns anymore, we'll welcome them back. A bit of green paint here and there and they're good to go... 
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Post by: Bonde
I don't get all the Ogryn hate, I really like the current models and I think the fluff for abhumans fits the Imperial Guard very well. Every planet has to contribute to the guard, no matter how simple or short you are. Planets being cut off for long periods of time is rare, which is why abhumans are an elite choice.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
They're not going to cut Ogryn. That's absurd.
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Post by: Polonius
It is telling how much faith we have in GW that we think it more likely they will cut a unit that's been around since rogue trader than it is they will create good rules for them.
Although, the models are a bit of a problem. GW really hates making big metal models these days, but has also cooled off on making finecast. All of which means that they might just make them in plastic, and give them the wraithguard treatment: new weapons and unit types.
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Post by: Kanluwen
I kind of wish they would, at least for the initial design process.
I've always disliked the fact that abhumans are their own unique units in the Guard Codex. I would rather have dedicated human units with the option to upgrade them or include the abhumans.
Something like:
Guard Counterassault Squad
Shotguns, Grenades, and something allowing them to effectively negate a charging bonus.
For 20 points per model you can replace the Guardsmen with Ogryn or add them to the squad(maximum of 15 models in the squad).
That could be an interesting little way to do things, IMO.
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Post by: Medium of Death
If Ogryns got a plastic kit that was more armoured up and had an interesting selection of weapons I'd be all over them. The actual design of the current models isn't bad, a few of them are a bit too static. I think incorporating them into blobs would be a good way to get them used more.
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Post by: Mathieu Raymond
A friend of mine working on Eternal Crusade (sorry... Warhammer forty-thousand's Eternal Crusade) says that they confirmed they are getting rid of Finecast, sooner rather than later.
I find it funny that it only took them, what, 4 years to realize they had a dud on their hands.
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Post by: Kanluwen
 Mathieu Raymond wrote:A friend of mine working on Eternal Crusade (sorry... Warhammer forty-thousand's Eternal Crusade) says that they confirmed they are getting rid of Finecast, sooner rather than later.
I find it funny that it only took them, what, 4 years to realize they had a dud on their hands.
I hate to break it to you but your friend didn't get inside information.
Anyone with a cursory knowledge of the most recent releases could tell you that was likely the case. Now, if your friend had an exact timeline? Might be a different story.
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Post by: Medium of Death
Finecast hasn't been going for 4 years has it? Time flies...
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Post by: fishy bob
Closer to three and a half, what I remember, but still. Time does fly.
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Post by: Mathieu Raymond
Kanluwen wrote: Mathieu Raymond wrote:A friend of mine working on Eternal Crusade (sorry... Warhammer forty-thousand's Eternal Crusade) says that they confirmed they are getting rid of Finecast, sooner rather than later.
I find it funny that it only took them, what, 4 years to realize they had a dud on their hands.
I hate to break it to you but your friend didn't get inside information.
Anyone with a cursory knowledge of the most recent releases could tell you that was likely the case. Now, if your friend had an exact timeline? Might be a different story.
I never pretended to super secret inside knowledge, but I prefer his sources which are from deeper inside GWHQ than, say, redshirts. I was keeping an open mind since I got a Finecast model (one, and only one, I admit) and it was bubble-free and only had a slight bend on a weapon. It was still a possibility that they had worked out the kinks and would at least keep carrying the medium for a longer period of time, if at least to amortize the cost.
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Post by: Brother SRM
Mathieu Raymond wrote:A friend of mine working on Eternal Crusade (sorry... Warhammer forty-thousand's Eternal Crusade) says that they confirmed they are getting rid of Finecast, sooner rather than later.
I find it funny that it only took them, what, 4 years to realize they had a dud on their hands.
It was always intended as a stopgap measure, and there's been increasingly smaller amounts of it with each release.
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Post by: HisDivineShadow
The abhumans have no place, fluffwise or not. They are mutants, after all. Something the Imperium hates.
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Post by: Palindrome
 HisDivineShadow wrote:The abhumans have no place, fluffwise or not. They are mutants, after all. Something the Imperium hates.
You mean like Navigators?
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Post by: Azreal13
Suffer not the mutant to live unless they're of some use to the Imperium
Is pretty much the long and short of it. All a bit hypocritical, but the. That's the Imperium to a tee.
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Post by: Veteran Sergeant
 Tannhauser42 wrote:Interesting that GW would do that, given their most recent trading terms with store require the GW brand to be plastered all over the packaging to prove that it is an authentic GW product.
Yeah, but special ordered product doesn't go on the shelf. Might simply be a cost-cutting thing.
Though, technically even special ordered stuff has advertising potential.
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Post by: MrMoustaffa
Why does everyone want Ogryns and Ratlings out of the codex? They're a very interesting part of the Imperial Guard and show not only how much humanity has changed since our time but also shows how much any deviation from the norm is looked down upon in Imperial society.
Throwing them out would be a big loss, even if the models remain kind of crap.
Honestly, I would be happy if ratlings became a troop choice at the same price (because those guys would be hard to shoot off an objective if you were smart about it) and Ogryn really just need a way to assault out of a transport (perhaps they treat all vehicles as assault vehicles) Those two changes alone would make them useable in my eyes for the kind of games I'd be interested in.
Obviously that's nowhere near enough to make them viable for tourney play, but I've always been of the school of thought that 40k Tournaments were kind of a joke to begin with.
Oh yeah, and penal legion needs to be able to take more than 10 FRIGGIN MODELS IN A UNIT. Don't show me a pic of hundreds of them charging across the field when all you're going to give me is a crappy 10 man skirmisher unit!
/rant
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Post by: Veteran Sergeant
I'd be bummed about an IGuard Codex that cuts out ratlings and Ogryns.
In fact, I'd love to see a Squat squad added in. 
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Post by: Kroothawk
More like Space Marines
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Post by: Veteran Sergeant
Space Marines aren't mutants... A mutation is an error or deviation in a genetic code.
Space Marines are purpose-built, with the intention of creating exactly what they become. It isn't like somebody accidentally becomes a Space Marine after living on a high gravity world or being bitten by a radioactive spider.
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Post by: Agamemnon2
HisDivineShadow wrote:The abhumans have no place, fluffwise or not. They are mutants, after all. Something the Imperium hates.
That's not really incompatible with them being front-line units in battle. Maybe the Imperium keeps all the Ogryns in death camps, only letting out a few at a time for when they need suicide units, equipped with bomb vests and big guns, and rewarded with summary execution in the unlikely chance they surive contact with the enemy. The Imperium hates everything after all, up to and including itself. It still makes use of things it hates, usually by grinding them down to oblivion in a perverse orgy of destruction.
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Post by: MrMoustaffa
 Agamemnon2 wrote: HisDivineShadow wrote:The abhumans have no place, fluffwise or not. They are mutants, after all. Something the Imperium hates.
That's not really incompatible with them being front-line units in battle. Maybe the Imperium keeps all the Ogryns in death camps, only letting out a few at a time for when they need suicide units, equipped with bomb vests and big guns, and rewarded with summary execution in the unlikely chance they surive contact with the enemy. The Imperium hates everything after all, up to and including itself. It still makes use of things it hates, usually by grinding them down to oblivion in a perverse orgy of destruction.
No, it's pretty well established that the Imperium has "Ogryn worlds" where the lovable brutes live. Every so often an Imperial ship shows up, scoops up enough Ogryn to make a regiment or two, and then trains them (point stick at bad people to make them go away!) and then they're sent wherever they're needed.
Others are used as labor on various forgeworlds. Their simplistic minds and brute strength make them great for manual labor.
Ratlings on the other hand aren't quite as useful, but they're great shots, sneaky, clever, and small enough to sneak around undetected, making them great scouts. They also are apparently good cooks for what that's worth, and breed like rabbits (which for the Imperium is excellent, since it means a large supply of expendable scouts that nobody cares about)
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Post by: vic
It wouldn't surprise me if they got rid of the abhumans, but I hope not. They are one of my favorite parts of the army. I'd love to see more of them.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
I’d say we’re more likely to get a Gretchin-sized box for plastic Ratlings (but 5 models only, and for the same price as the 11-model Grot box) and a Wraithguard-sized box for plastic Ogryn. I don’t think we’d get either for the next Codex, but I do think that Ogryn would be the first to get the new box.
They won’t cut them. When’s the last time GW cut a unit that wasn’t Inquisitorial in some manner?
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Post by: Medium of Death
Pariahs in the Necron Codex I think.
I wouldn't mind if Ratlings were folded into a "sniper unit" of somesuch. I think your right about the likelyhood of Ogryns getting any sort of new kit before Ratlings. It'd be good if any new IG boxes came with Bits (masks/helmets) to tie Ogryns in with the army. Steel Legion/Valhallans etc. That only really applies if the dream for plastic redesigns of the old metals comes true.
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Post by: timetowaste85
Sword brethren are no longer an actual unit. They are now crusade squad upgrades. So they count as being cut too.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
That's it. I knew it was something.
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Post by: Brother SRM
Models which are solid stand ins for a royal court or Crypteks. The unit itself is gone, but the models still have a place.
 timetowaste85 wrote:Sword brethren are no longer an actual unit. They are now crusade squad upgrades. So they count as being cut too.
Vanguard veterans. They're entirely the same, sans veteran skills which units can't generally buy anymore.
I sincerely doubt GW would axe abhumans. They've always been a part of the Imperial Guard, and they're an opportunity to sell new hotness infantry kits. I wouldn't be surprised to see an Ogryn combi-kit that contains ripper guns and some sort of larger close combat weapon option.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
 Brother SRM wrote:Models which are solid stand ins for a royal court or Crypteks. The unit itself is gone, but the models still have a place.
The unit is gone. So are the models. It's a unit that's been cut from the game. What you can 'counts as' it as is unimportant. There's no wiggle room here - that unit was cut.
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Post by: Sir Arun
 H.B.M.C. wrote: Brother SRM wrote:Models which are solid stand ins for a royal court or Crypteks. The unit itself is gone, but the models still have a place.
The unit is gone. So are the models. It's a unit that's been cut from the game. What you can 'counts as' it as is unimportant. There's no wiggle room here - that unit was cut.
No it's not. The unit is still in the game, it's called Lychguard with Warscythes. The only thing that was changed was the name and the fluff. But we all know how Necrons across the board got a fluff change. Then GW decided to give Pariahs a second option, namely shield and single handed sword, so that's your more traditional looking Lychguard.
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Post by: Palindrome
Brother SRM wrote:
I sincerely doubt GW would axe abhumans. They've always been a part of the Imperial Guard, and they're an opportunity to sell new hotness infantry kits. I wouldn't be surprised to see an Ogryn combi-kit that contains ripper guns and some sort of larger close combat weapon option.
I for one would like to see the return of Beastmen (although that would require a fluff 'revision').
I can see Ogryns getting some potent melee upgrades, at least some kind of power weapon,
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Post by: Medium of Death
 Sir Arun wrote: H.B.M.C. wrote: Brother SRM wrote:Models which are solid stand ins for a royal court or Crypteks. The unit itself is gone, but the models still have a place.
The unit is gone. So are the models. It's a unit that's been cut from the game. What you can 'counts as' it as is unimportant. There's no wiggle room here - that unit was cut.
No it's not. The unit is still in the game, it's called Lychguard with Warscythes. The only thing that was changed was the name and the fluff. But we all know how Necrons across the board got a fluff change. Then GW decided to give Pariahs a second option, namely shield and single handed sword, so that's your more traditional looking Lychguard.
So change everything that is distinct about the Pariah and it's still a Pariah? Don't think so. Personally I see the point in being able to use them as "counts as", but Pariahs are long gone. Lycheguard are not "Souless" and are not "Psychic Abominations". I don't mind the Necron fluff change, but kind of wish that the Pariahs had stayed.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
And the models. And the entire concept behind Pariahs. So... everything?
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Post by: Kroothawk
Mathieu Raymond wrote:A friend of mine working on Eternal Crusade (sorry... Warhammer forty-thousand's Eternal Crusade) says that they confirmed they are getting rid of Finecast, sooner rather than later.
I find it funny that it only took them, what, 4 years to realize they had a dud on their hands.
Actually, they didn't find a fault in Finecast, they found a fault in low run finely sculpted hero models.
Why sell a 16$ Finecast Librarian, when you can make a 30$ Plastic Librarian?
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Post by: Mathieu Raymond
 Kroothawk wrote: Mathieu Raymond wrote:A friend of mine working on Eternal Crusade (sorry... Warhammer forty-thousand's Eternal Crusade) says that they confirmed they are getting rid of Finecast, sooner rather than later.
I find it funny that it only took them, what, 4 years to realize they had a dud on their hands.
Actually, they didn't find a fault in Finecast, they found a fault in low run finely sculpted hero models.
Why sell a 16$ Finecast Librarian, when you can make a 30$ Plastic Librarian?
Especially once they have amortized the cost of the mould. It's *almost* a license to print money. Although if they really wanted to capitalise on this, imho, they would have made a single sprue with all the bits options for all HQ units (save maybe the bike dude and special characters), charge you more for the box than a single clamshell and rake it in as people bought enough kits to make one of each. Or an extra box of tactical marines to spread them around.
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Post by: martin74
Don't get rid of the Ratlings or Ogryns. I am not a huge fan of the ratlings, however, I do like Ogryns. Ogyrns need a fix, not sure what though.
Possible changes:
1. Give them the old 5th rules for furious charge. Losing the +1 initiative hurt:
2. Need to be able to assault quickly. They are bigger than normal humans, so, they should be able to move further than normal , not sure if fleet is the answer. I do like the ability that they could assault out of a chimera. (I just picture a chimera charging in reverse toward an objective).
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Post by: MrMoustaffa
 martin74 wrote:Don't get rid of the Ratlings or Ogryns. I am not a huge fan of the ratlings, however, I do like Ogryns. Ogyrns need a fix, not sure what though.
Possible changes:
1. Give them the old 5th rules for furious charge. Losing the +1 initiative hurt:
2. Need to be able to assault quickly. They are bigger than normal humans, so, they should be able to move further than normal , not sure if fleet is the answer. I do like the ability that they could assault out of a chimera. (I just picture a chimera charging in reverse toward an objective).
Well the reason I suggested it is that they hate riding in Chimeras. I'd imagine that the moment the ramp came down they'd practically push each other out the door to be free. 
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Post by: DarkTraveler777
 MrMoustaffa wrote: martin74 wrote:Don't get rid of the Ratlings or Ogryns. I am not a huge fan of the ratlings, however, I do like Ogryns. Ogyrns need a fix, not sure what though.
Possible changes:
1. Give them the old 5th rules for furious charge. Losing the +1 initiative hurt:
2. Need to be able to assault quickly. They are bigger than normal humans, so, they should be able to move further than normal , not sure if fleet is the answer. I do like the ability that they could assault out of a chimera. (I just picture a chimera charging in reverse toward an objective).
Well the reason I suggested it is that they hate riding in Chimeras. I'd imagine that the moment the ramp came down they'd practically push each other out the door to be free.
I like this visual. Maybe Ogryns could have a special rule called Stampede!
A unit with this special rule treats all transports as Assault Vehicles.
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Post by: Sir Arun
Yeah, the nerf to Furious Charge sucks.
But Ogryns were never competetive anyway.
Given the incredulous points reduction bikes received, I'd say Ogryns should also be dropped down to 28ish points
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Post by: ultimentra
Sir Arun gave me an awesome idea, Ogryn rough riders on bikes! As tough as nurgle bikers, but a little bit dumber. XD
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Post by: RegulusBlack
My take.... if you purchase Nork at full price he unlocks an Ogyrn bodyguard as 30pt squad upgrades for all 10 man squads/vets/PCs so the squad or platoon leader has his own look out sir beat stick.
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Post by: MrMoustaffa
 RegulusBlack wrote:My take.... if you purchase Nork at full price he unlocks an Ogyrn bodyguard as 30pt squad upgrades for all 10 man squads/vets/ PCs so the squad or platoon leader has his own look out sir beat stick.
Oh god that would make infantry blobs a bit ridiculous.
40 plus guardsmen bearing down on you with 4 Ogryn in tow taking hits for the Commissars and Sarge's wielding power weapons sounds a bit too good to me.
It would be hilarious to watch though.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
Assaulting out of a vehicle would be even harder for them as they'd have trouble getting out of the human sized doors however eager they were....
Maybe a 50/50 chance of a successful assault or a distaster, your Ogryn pile up in the doorway, they and the vehicle can do nothing until the next turn as they struggle to get out
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Post by: Happygrunt
 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:Assaulting out of a vehicle would be even harder for them as they'd have trouble getting out of the human sized doors however eager they were....
Maybe a 50/50 chance of a successful assault or a distaster, your Ogryn pile up in the doorway, they and the vehicle can do nothing until the next turn as they struggle to get out
See, I am imagining them dropping the entire back ramp for the chimera.
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Post by: Sir Arun
special rule: when Ogryns disembark, roll a D6. On a 1, the chimera suffers a glancing hit and is reduced to open-topped for the rest of the game.
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Post by: Spartan089
Sir Arun wrote:special rule: when Ogryns disembark, roll a D6. On a 1, the chimera suffers a glancing hit and is reduced to open-topped for the rest of the game.
Don't give GW any idea's. We don't need anymore "cinematic" rules.
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Post by: alarmingrick
 Spartan089 wrote: Sir Arun wrote:special rule: when Ogryns disembark, roll a D6. On a 1, the chimera suffers a glancing hit and is reduced to open-topped for the rest of the game.
Don't give GW any idea's. We don't need anymore "cinematic" rules.
True, but that was funny!
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Post by: MrFlutterPie
I would lower Ogryns pts cost a lot and make their guns auto hit.
This makes them a shooting unit that can also fight in close combat. Fits in nice with 6ed being the shooting edition.
I also love the abhumans and would love to see them worth taking. However, never underestimate GW's ability to make a poor unit worse :(
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Post by: portugus
I'll admit I hate the abhumans. I would love for them to remove them and add something new but really what else could they put there. (Imaging a guardsmen with another guardsmen on his back a la Space Marine Centurions or Dreadknight or the guy from total recall with the baby on his stomach)
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Post by: Stormonu
I was thinking about this recently and I'd like to see bikes replace Rough Riders.
And a 4 or 6 legged walker, ala AT-ATs, with heavy guns (maybe the 4-legger with a demolisher cannon, the 6-legger with a baskilisk's cannon).
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Post by: portugus
Nowadays that sounds like a big MC you're talking about. :p I wouldn't mind 2 weapons on a sentinel to make use of the walker rules of being able to fire two but I know they'll never update the box to do that. I would like rough riders to be able to use their lances multiple times. I would like upgrades to the leman run, like buying a coaxial weapon for twin linking. (Would work wonders for the vanquisher and punisher. Or maybe actual extra armor to up the rear armor by 1 maybe. But I don't see them updating those boxes either since they are new. Giving the leman russ a rule that lets it fire it's ordnance weapon without making the others snapshot. We will see.
Edit:
Vox casters that increase range and let you re-roll, I would pay 5 points for that. Even 6" would be ok, something.
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Post by: Senden
What about merging the walker and monstrous creature entries (they've already gone most of the way, hull points and tau gundams) so that sentinels get smash attacks/equivalent and are properly stompy, at least on the turn they leap into combat.
Also, something to distinguish stormtoopers from veterans, right now it seems that veterans do everything that stormtroopers do, except they're cheaper, get more guns and can score.
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Post by: Christopher300
Removing abhumans would be a tragedy. They add a bit of variety and I actually play with Ratlings. It would be disappointing to just have to play with guardsmen with sniper rifles.
I think everybody knows that Ogryns need something to make them worth while. They dont have to be game changer but just a bit cheaper and useable.
I too would like to see rough riders with bikes. But I would like to see them on something like a motorcross style bike.
Doctrines would be interesting, especially if they were done like chapter tactics.
I am disappointed to see rumours of veteran squads being reduced to 5 men. That just seems a bit too easy to kill.
I would hate for Guard to become just a one build army so just tanks I would like to be able to play it different ays.
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Post by: vic
via StrykerSniper on Warseer
I'm praying for stormtroopers, real ones, as a second troop choice. I did have a tiny look behind the iron curtain of GWs privacy policies, and I was able to see some mockups of the new veterans/stormtrooper boxed set, and it would be an amazing kit to build warbands or stormtrooper squads. Also I saw a model that appeared to be an Inquisitor, and was wearing a long cloak and armor.
I could see GW allowing stormtroopers as a troop choice to induce additional sales of the new kit, which, frankly, floored me. The details were great, with kasrkin style armor, and all sorts of weapons including hellguns, sniper rifles, special weapons, a cool missile launcher, a bunch of sergeant options, bolters, and lots of shotguns that managed to not look like scout shotguns. Also, the bolters did not look like marine shotuns, they were a little more human sized.
Some of the poses were also amazingly dynamic. Some were stoic standing poses, while a couple were very John Woo! There were also a lot of extra bits, poches, packs, grenades, knives, some scanner like equipment, and what appeared to be night vision goggles. If i were a puppy, I would've piddled on the rug, and it was a supreme act of will not to grab the models and run for the door. Apparently, they have also been ready for some time. Please dear God, let these see the light of my hobby store soon and I will have at least 5 boxes! This might even revitalize my Guard army.
Oh, and there were a bunch of heads! respirator heads, heads with berets, bald heads, heads with mohawks and crew cuts. Most were scarred, and one had an eyepatch, while another had a disfigured eye with what looked like claw marks, one head was smoking a stogie, and there were two heads with berets. There was even a knife that looked like a trench knife with raised knuckle dusters. There were scopes, a hand radio, and a bunch of bits for the bases including plants, a snake, and some ammo cans and satchel charges. There was even a hand holding an entrenching tool (shovel to you non-military types). There were a few holstered pistols, and as a delightful surprise, there were also autoguns in addition to lasguns, and there were bits for pistol and close combat weapon troops, although few were chainblades. There was a demo charge, melta bombs, and camo cloaks.
I was very, very impressed. The attention to detail was phenomenal. If you have any questions, ask them quick, before I am "sanctioned" by the inquisition. What is that sound outside the window.......?
Not sure how much cred this has. Sounds very cool, but also sounds like waaaay to much stuff to fit in a 10 man plastic squad box.
43296
Post by: stargazer093
 vic wrote:via StrykerSniper on Warseer
I'm praying for stormtroopers, real ones, as a second troop choice. I did have a tiny look behind the iron curtain of GWs privacy policies, and I was able to see some mockups of the new veterans/stormtrooper boxed set, and it would be an amazing kit to build warbands or stormtrooper squads. Also I saw a model that appeared to be an Inquisitor, and was wearing a long cloak and armor.
I could see GW allowing stormtroopers as a troop choice to induce additional sales of the new kit, which, frankly, floored me. The details were great, with kasrkin style armor, and all sorts of weapons including hellguns, sniper rifles, special weapons, a cool missile launcher, a bunch of sergeant options, bolters, and lots of shotguns that managed to not look like scout shotguns. Also, the bolters did not look like marine shotuns, they were a little more human sized.
Some of the poses were also amazingly dynamic. Some were stoic standing poses, while a couple were very John Woo! There were also a lot of extra bits, poches, packs, grenades, knives, some scanner like equipment, and what appeared to be night vision goggles. If i were a puppy, I would've piddled on the rug, and it was a supreme act of will not to grab the models and run for the door. Apparently, they have also been ready for some time. Please dear God, let these see the light of my hobby store soon and I will have at least 5 boxes! This might even revitalize my Guard army.
Oh, and there were a bunch of heads! respirator heads, heads with berets, bald heads, heads with mohawks and crew cuts. Most were scarred, and one had an eyepatch, while another had a disfigured eye with what looked like claw marks, one head was smoking a stogie, and there were two heads with berets. There was even a knife that looked like a trench knife with raised knuckle dusters. There were scopes, a hand radio, and a bunch of bits for the bases including plants, a snake, and some ammo cans and satchel charges. There was even a hand holding an entrenching tool (shovel to you non-military types). There were a few holstered pistols, and as a delightful surprise, there were also autoguns in addition to lasguns, and there were bits for pistol and close combat weapon troops, although few were chainblades. There was a demo charge, melta bombs, and camo cloaks.
I was very, very impressed. The attention to detail was phenomenal. If you have any questions, ask them quick, before I am "sanctioned" by the inquisition. What is that sound outside the window.......?
Not sure how much cred this has. Sounds very cool, but also sounds like waaaay to much stuff to fit in a 10 man plastic squad box.
It's been stated multiple times that the new ST/vet box will be 5man each, so guess this is reasonable
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Post by: Melcavuk
If its 5 models to the same detail/variety as the new Vanguard or Sternguard kits for marines for a similar price I can see myself picking up a few of the kits.
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Post by: Snrub
Wow that sounds like one hell of a kit.
It does smack of being a bit "too good to be true" but out of sheer want I'm going to give this guy then benefit of the doubt.
Don't let me down StrykerSniper on Warseer
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Post by: Palindrome
 Melcavuk wrote:If its 5 models to the same detail/variety as the new Vanguard or Sternguard kits for marines for a similar price I can see myself picking up a few of the kits.
£5-6 for a single guardsman? That's getting on for £1 per point.
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Post by: Melcavuk
Palindrome wrote: Melcavuk wrote:If its 5 models to the same detail/variety as the new Vanguard or Sternguard kits for marines for a similar price I can see myself picking up a few of the kits.
£5-6 for a single guardsman? That's getting on for £1 per point.
Vanguard are 20.50 which would put them at just over 4. However with the apparently large number of customisable options it'd not be unreasonable to use one of the (rumoured) kits and a box of standard guardsmen to convert up various vets.
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Post by: Sir Arun
Arent vets 8 points each, not 5?
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Post by: Tower75
So... no Praetorians?
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Post by: Palindrome
Are you sure about that? http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod2160152a Sternguard are £30.....
There is certainly no way that I am going to be paying £25 for 5 plastic guardsmen. I may consider it for something like Preatorians but even then they are usually cheaper than that.
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Post by: Las
^ I also don't understand this. I mean most of us have squads on squads of converted vets already.
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Post by: Herzlos
I'm definitely in the camp of not paying more than £15-20 for 5 plastic infantry (which is still a long way from the £1/figure I remember from my youth). No matter how many vets I can kitbash together from the kit. If it's too expensive I'll just buy the spares from someone and use my existing unbuilt troops.
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Post by: Apologist
I don't really care what the name on the box is. I'll be reading it as 'more cool bits to spread across line infantry squads'.
When I think about it like that, I don't mind it being just five men.
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Post by: Las
50 bucks though?
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Post by: Herzlos
 Apologist wrote:I don't really care what the name on the box is. I'll be reading it as 'more cool bits to spread across line infantry squads'.
When I think about it like that, I don't mind it being just five men.
If it was just the accessories for a suitable price (by that I mean £5), then I guess so. £20+ for 5 plastic soldiers that'll be part of a 30+ soldier horde? Nah. I can get WGF Shock troops for under £1/each, and they'll do just as well in game, for 20-25% of the price.
78925
Post by: Sir Arun
Pig Iron Productions' Kolony Militia make for some great DKoK/Armageddon Steel Legion units and their system troopers make for great Harakoni Warhawks / Elysian Drop Troops.
Guns dont look like Lasguns? Who says they need to look like Cadian pattern Lasguns to begin with ? Different worlds, different gun hulls.
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Post by: Apologist
Herzlos wrote:If it was just the accessories for a suitable price (by that I mean £5), then I guess so. £20+ for 5 plastic soldiers that'll be part of a 30+ soldier horde? Nah. I can get WGF Shock troops for under £1/each, and they'll do just as well in game, for 20-25% of the price.
Fair enough. Horses for courses
From my point of view, which is more concerned with modelling aesthetics than gaming practicalities, anything that helps spice up the basic troops is a godsend.
Sir Arun wrote:Pig Iron Productions' Kolony Militia make for some great DKoK/Armageddon Steel Legion units and their system troopers make for great Harakoni Warhawks / Elysian Drop Troops.
Guns dont look like Lasguns? Who says they need to look like Cadian pattern Lasguns to begin with ? Different worlds, different gun hulls.
Yes, Pig Iron are awesome. Lovely company to buy from
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Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
 Veteran Sergeant wrote:Space Marines are purpose-built, with the intention of creating exactly what they become. It isn't like somebody accidentally becomes a Space Marine after living on a high gravity world or being bitten by a radioactive spider.
Navigators are suspected to have been purpose-built too, and nobody accidentally becomes a Navigator, nor an Ogryn, nor a Ratling. Contrarily to marines, a new Navigator resp. Ogryn resp. Ratling happens when Mummy Navigator (resp. Ogryn resp. Ratling) meets Daddy Navigator (resp. Ogryn resp. Ratling), and they get deeply in love, and then Daddy Navigator (resp. Ogryn resp. Ratling) puts some seed in Mummy Navigator (resp. Ogryn resp. Ratling). Contrarily to mutants and space marines. Which makes space marines more akin to purpose-made mutants.
Goddam it, people, show the abhumans some love, they are cool concepts ! They expand on the 40k-verse rather than being some poor uninspired addition that brings nothing to the setting.
When was the last time a new unit added something to the setting, not just a new model to put on the table with nothing to make the fluff any deeper, really ? Certainly not centurions, or “more epic” versions of old space marines units, or any of the new bigger kits ! Arguably the daemon engines could have, but I don't think it was such a success…
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Post by: MrMoustaffa
 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: Veteran Sergeant wrote:Space Marines are purpose-built, with the intention of creating exactly what they become. It isn't like somebody accidentally becomes a Space Marine after living on a high gravity world or being bitten by a radioactive spider.
Navigators are suspected to have been purpose-built too, and nobody accidentally becomes a Navigator, nor an Ogryn, nor a Ratling. Contrarily to marines, a new Navigator resp. Ogryn resp. Ratling happens when Mummy Navigator (resp. Ogryn resp. Ratling) meets Daddy Navigator (resp. Ogryn resp. Ratling), and they get deeply in love, and then Daddy Navigator (resp. Ogryn resp. Ratling) puts some seed in Mummy Navigator (resp. Ogryn resp. Ratling). Contrarily to mutants and space marines. Which makes space marines more akin to purpose-made mutants.
Goddam it, people, show the abhumans some love, they are cool concepts ! They expand on the 40k-verse rather than being some poor uninspired addition that brings nothing to the setting.
When was the last time a new unit added something to the setting, not just a new model to put on the table with nothing to make the fluff any deeper, really ? Certainly not centurions, or “more epic” versions of old space marines units, or any of the new bigger kits ! Arguably the daemon engines could have, but I don't think it was such a success…
Well, they did originally come about as a way to shoehorn in Hobbits and Ogres into the 40k setting, so they're not exactly the most original edition.
I would still be sad to see them go though.
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Post by: MrFlutterPie
MrMoustaffa wrote:
Well, they did originally come about as a way to shoehorn in Hobbits and Ogres into the 40k setting, so they're not exactly the most original edition.
I would still be sad to see them go though.
For me it's not about originality it's about being cool
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Post by: portugus
Well I guess they can keep the ogryns and ratlings if they make them more competitive in the elite slot, not just keep them just for nostalgia's sake. Though I will never use abhumans in my army, I hope (if they keep them) they make them worth taking some times as opposed to never.
I always thought about making orgryn like the wolverine from command and conquer tiberean sun. Just isn't worth the effort right now.
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Post by: Ravajaxe
Well, you are not alone letting completely aside the abhumans in current environment. A situation that is not new. When was the last time these auxiliaries were actually decently usable ?
Maybe once in the distant past, 2nd edition ?
But I would not be reluctant to include some of them in my army, even if they don't fit perfectly in its specific visual identity. Just make them acutally efficient on the table. Both ratling and ogryn miniatures were completely resculpted when 5th edition codex was out. The miniatures are good looking, plus ratlings being cheap. Abhumans do have a place in the grimdark background of 41st millennium. What they need is just GW avoiding a monumental screw up of their rules & point cost... as ever.
By the way, 1st post updated.
I did not took what Natfka posted in its blog regarding stormtroopers, as we already have some more complete information, that seems to come from an original source.
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Post by: MajorStoffer
Price of a new 5 man kit is a point of concern, but even with GW's often irrational pricing, Guard kits are always cheaper than their equivalent marine version. Not necessarily by a whole lot, but there is some tiny admittance on the part of GW that you get less points per kit, between 1/3 or 1/2, and thus charge 10 - 15% less than the marine version. also, with marines being the flagship army, they've always been slightly more expensive because the market will support it.
Currently a 10 man cadian/catachan kit is, what, $28? I'd expect to see 5 vets/stormtroopers for no more than $30. If they were to be a ten man kit, I'd expect something more like $50-55, but GW does like to avoid particularly high price tags on infantry squads, hence selling them as 5s so the consumer doesn't feel like they're being as deeply gouged.
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Post by: BlaxicanX
If Ogryns end up in the codex, they will absolutely not be useful outside an utterly casual beer n' chips game.
They're a low model-count, infantry assault unit. That basically means that 6th Edition hates them for everything they stand for.
At the very most, the best we can hope for is a points reduction and maybe give them hammer of wrath or something.
As far as wishlisting, though, it would be cool if you could attach a single Ogryn to an infantry squad, and allow it to make LOS rolls for every model in the squad on a 2+.
This wouldn't serve to display the Ogryn heroically sacrificing itself for the squad so much as it would Grimdark'ly display the squad just using the mutant freak as a meat-shield.
49644
Post by: MrFlutterPie
I wish, try $34.75 
73007
Post by: Grimskul
Yeah...being a Canadian is almost as bad as being Australian in terms of GW prices. So much for loyalty to the crown At this point I either buy from eBay or go directly to discount retailers that give 20% off or more. I haven't gone to a GW store in years.
59176
Post by: Mathieu Raymond
I doesn't help that the only one in my province has staff that is completely repulsive.
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Post by: Snrub
 Grimskul wrote:Yeah...being a Canadian is almost as bad as being Australian in terms of GW prices. So much for loyalty to the crown
At this point I either buy from eBay or go directly to discount retailers that give 20% off or more. I haven't gone to a GW store in years.
Threadly reminder that Australians get shafted worse then anyone else.
At the moment (can't imagine it'll stay that way for long) our Cadian/Catachan squads are at $48.00AUD. Our Command Squads are at $41.00AUD.
So lets assume that Vet/Storm trooper box is 10 men + Gubbinz. I think we can safely assume that since 10 standard troopers + minimal gubbinz is $48, that a 10 man duel kit + heaps of gubbinz will hit $55.00AUD for 10 men. Maybe even $60.
Now lets assume that it's only a five man duel kit (which seems likely at the moment). 5 men + many gubbinz, a la the command squads will probably be in much the same price range + a little extra for the fact it's a duel kit. I think it'll end up being $50-55AUD.
Gone are the days of 20 shock troopers for $50. Now it's 10 for almost the same price. Fething GW
49644
Post by: MrFlutterPie
I too haven't stepped foot in a GW in years. I shop at a local FLGS that offers 20% and ebay of course.
I also buy all my paints, tools and supplies from other manufactures to save on costs.
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Post by: KommissarKiln
I don't like most of what I saw in OP. Two things I'd be ok with is larger HWS and giving vets CCW if you're really pressed for cc troops.
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Post by: Yonan
I'm hoping the IG release has something like the SM Strike force which was awesome value. 30% discount baked into it due to being a bundle, plus you then get 25% discount from an online discounter... resulted in actually getting a decent priced army out of GW for once. Especially when you consider I should be paying GW AU RRP.
The new stormtrooper kits being similar in quality to stern/vanguard would be pretty awesome, but I hope it's accompanied by a rerelease, or new release of basic infantry. The SM Tac squad got an improved release, a non-horrible redesign of Cadians, plus the stormtroopers... I'd probably pick up 3 "strike forces" for IG too if that happened.
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Post by: UNCLEBADTOUCH
Just make of ogryns beasts to get them into womping range quicker.
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Post by: Mathieu Raymond
Yonan or Snrub: do you know how much Dreamforge's troopers sell for down under? I know they're not as grimdark as GW's offering, but I was just wondering how much a box of 20 goes for in your neck of the woods.
Especially if Cadians are 48$... sheesh...
47246
Post by: Yonan
Mathieu Raymond wrote:Yonan or Snrub: do you know how much Dreamforge's troopers sell for down under? I know they're not as grimdark as GW's offering, but I was just wondering how much a box of 20 goes for in your neck of the woods. Especially if Cadians are 48$... sheesh...
Combat Company are the best online seller in Australia for Dreamforge. Leviathans have got a lot of traction down here, but I haven't seen many stormtroopers other than my own yet sadly. The 20 man stormtrooper squad is $47, so just over $2 per mini. So yeah, 20 of these or 10 Cadians - tough choice! That said, a lot of us (including me) import GW. I actually fight very hard against buying GW locally on the Aussie forums, and I cop a lot of flack for it. I understand "support your flgs", but when you can import GW stufff at 50% of the price, you can *give* the savings to your FLGS and they'll be much better off. Sorry for the small rant... touchy subject ; p You understand our pain though as Canadians get regionally price gouged too. Edit: The above mentioned SM stuff I bought, I bought from the US. So $177 for an SM strike force, which is $350 here, and the contents of which is $495 at GW AU RRP. $2.30 per tac marine which was still pricy, but as it's a new, really nice kit I thought it was actually good value. I then bought 2 sternguard and 2 vanguard kits to bling them up... at $8 and $6 per mini /wrists But those actually are beautiful kits, probably 2 of the best GW has ever produced. Slight derail, but the Dreamforge relevance is, it's far better than any GW IG kit. GW needs to lift its game bigtime if it wants to compete in the IG model space. Dreamforge covers the entire foot range, including heavy weapons and command squad (soon at least).
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Post by: Mathieu Raymond
Soon as in May 2014... sigh. And they'll actually have women in uniform, too... which will be the only hard plastic ones, if I'm not mistaken?
I feel your pain. I sometimes make a stray purchase when I dip into the US. Customs officers are much more interested in booze, tobacco and firearms than plastic minis. Especially when I say it's for my nephew. Which I rationalize he'll want when he grows up.
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Post by: Yonan
Thankfully our customs only hit us when we go over $1K so we're fine in that regard /fistpump.
Dreamforge is *all* hard plastic. Every. Last. Kit. Pure, glorious, well engineered and detailed hard plastic. I thought you were in on DFG KS, but it can be hard to keep track of what everyones spending on hehe.
Edit: The only hard plastic female troops you might mean, which I think would be correct. Vic is putting out some resin ones soon - which look *really* good. But do love my hard plastic!
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Post by: Rostere
For some reason, Sanctioned Psykers are now listed under the IG HQ section on the GW webshop...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, the Troops section has a "Imperial Guard Stormtroopers Squad 1" entry... There's some weird stuff going on over there....
49827
Post by: MajorWesJanson
MajorStoffer wrote:Price of a new 5 man kit is a point of concern, but even with GW's often irrational pricing, Guard kits are always cheaper than their equivalent marine version. Not necessarily by a whole lot, but there is some tiny admittance on the part of GW that you get less points per kit, between 1/3 or 1/2, and thus charge 10 - 15% less than the marine version. also, with marines being the flagship army, they've always been slightly more expensive because the market will support it.
Currently a 10 man cadian/catachan kit is, what, $28? I'd expect to see 5 vets/stormtroopers for no more than $30. If they were to be a ten man kit, I'd expect something more like $50-55, but GW does like to avoid particularly high price tags on infantry squads, hence selling them as 5s so the consumer doesn't feel like they're being as deeply gouged.
I'd guess a 5 man box for $33 or so. The 5 man command squad is 25, and if you leave out banners, there is plenty of room for more stuff on the sprue.
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Post by: Agamemnon2
 BlaxicanX wrote:If Ogryns end up in the codex, they will absolutely not be useful outside an utterly casual beer n' chips game.
They're a low model-count, infantry assault unit. That basically means that 6th Edition hates them for everything they stand for.
On the plus side, by the time the codex comes out, 6E will be almost half done, and 7E will be sure to mess up the status quo again. Who knows, maybe everything will come up Millhouse at last?
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Post by: Sir Arun
Youre saying 7th edition will be released in 2016? that would suck
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Post by: MisterPerkins
Storm Troopers are now listed under Troops and Elites on the GW website
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Post by: NeedleOfInquiry
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Post by: Agamemnon2
Sir Arun wrote:Youre saying 7th edition will be released in 2016? that would suck
4E was 2004, 5E was 2008, 6E was 2012. I can't know for certain, but the signs are there.
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Post by: Happygrunt
Chimeras are listed as troops though, so I am banking on this being a website screw up and not intentional.
Although tech priests are now in elites...
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Post by: MrMoustaffa
 Happygrunt wrote:
Chimeras are listed as troops though, so I am banking on this being a website screw up and not intentional.
Although tech priests are now in elites...
Well yeah, they're transports that can be taken by troops, that's not exactly surprising.
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Post by: Skoda
However, it is only one package of stormtroopers, the others are listed under elites. This may just be a GW website screw up.
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Post by: StarTrotter
Agamemnon2 wrote: Sir Arun wrote:Youre saying 7th edition will be released in 2016? that would suck
4E was 2004, 5E was 2008, 6E was 2012. I can't know for certain, but the signs are there.
I could be wrong but with the advent of supplements I feel it very possible 6E will last longer than the previous two editions
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Post by: Mathieu Raymond
 Yonan wrote:Thankfully our customs only hit us when we go over $1K so we're fine in that regard /fistpump.
Dreamforge is *all* hard plastic. Every. Last. Kit. Pure, glorious, well engineered and detailed hard plastic. I thought you were in on DFG KS, but it can be hard to keep track of what everyones spending on hehe.
Edit: The only hard plastic female troops you might mean, which I think would be correct. Vic is putting out some resin ones soon - which look *really* good. But do love my hard plastic!
Yes, maybe my syntax was sub-par, more and more customers were coming in and I wanted to fire off that reply before my fiancee came in for her shift. I am in on DFG, waiting for my 15 Black Widows (I know they're boxes of 10, but a friend of mine wants 5... go figure) and my 40 Heavies...
So yeah, until, if GW does sisters in plastic, DFG will be the only source of hard plastic female soldiers... nice! I haven't seen the latest Vic WIPs, I thought that was still a way off?
Back on the codex though: Would anyone start playing Storm Troopers if the cost and mechanics remained the same but they were scoring? For myself, I'd probably play them even less because I don,t want to have a low-model count troop choice that is mostly suicidal in nature. I need those scoring units.
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Post by: portugus
I would totally play them more! With an astropath, I would have second turn a lot of special weapons right in your deployment/objective/relic/etc with pin point accuracy. It would be overpowered i think to have like 60 dudes with special weapons dropping in like they do. not that I would complain, it gives me a chance to get up to Tau and Eldar without getting shredded.
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Post by: NeedleOfInquiry
 Skoda wrote:
However, it is only one package of stormtroopers, the others are listed under elites. This may just be a GW website screw up.
Well, we will know in a week or so....
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Post by: Yonan
Mathieu Raymond wrote:Back on the codex though: Would anyone start playing Storm Troopers if the cost and mechanics remained the same but they were scoring? For myself, I'd probably play them even less because I don,t want to have a low-model count troop choice that is mostly suicidal in nature. I need those scoring units.
Swoit, thought you were. Vics stuff is still WIP, but pretty sure they'll be out before DFG wave 3 hehe. Looking forward to more wave 3 pics, Black Widows sharing kit with stormtroopers should have an amazing variety to work with especially given the accessory kits. You have a feth ton of RH ladies on the way too right? GW has a lot of solid competition in the IG space atm. Yeah I don't like the suicidal nature of ST rules, doesn't fit with the fluff of them being the elite of the IG.
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Post by: Barzam
No further word on what the new vehicle kit might be? I'd love to see a new MBT that doesn't look like the Leman Russ. Something between the Russ and the Baneblade would be nice. Especially if it wound up looking like a proper functional tank.
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Post by: Peregrine
Rostere wrote:For some reason, Sanctioned Psykers are now listed under the IG HQ section on the GW webshop...
Also, the Troops section has a "Imperial Guard Stormtroopers Squad 1" entry... There's some weird stuff going on over there....
IIRC this happened back when GW discontinued the specialist games and a lot of the older metal models. Some of the IG metal stuff ended up in weird places.
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Post by: Bonde
IIRC that one pack of stormtroopers were in the troops section for a long time (months) before Codex: Inquisition was announced, so it could be nothing.
I still hope they do stormtroopers or something with carapace and hot shot lasguns as troops, though. There's even a picture of a ST in the book, and that says a lot more about what you can field than the IG page does.
I sort of expected the Inquisition to recieve their own page on the website, just like AS. It would be nice to see what models we could field in what slot.
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Post by: Las
I really hope they keep the schola progenium STs and put them in plastic. Kasrkins are soft.
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Post by: Mathieu Raymond
portugus wrote:I would totally play them more! With an astropath, I would have second turn a lot of special weapons right in your deployment/objective/relic/etc with pin point accuracy. It would be overpowered i think to have like 60 dudes with special weapons dropping in like they do. not that I would complain, it gives me a chance to get up to Tau and Eldar without getting shredded.
See, I don't see them as surviving more than a turn or two after arrival. They're very squishy, imo. 4+ is not the greatest save, and even Tau have the common sense of travelling in larger groups.
Yonan wrote: Mathieu Raymond wrote:Back on the codex though: Would anyone start playing Storm Troopers if the cost and mechanics remained the same but they were scoring? For myself, I'd probably play them even less because I don,t want to have a low-model count troop choice that is mostly suicidal in nature. I need those scoring units.
Swoit, thought you were. Vics stuff is still WIP, but pretty sure they'll be out before DFG wave 3 hehe. Looking forward to more wave 3 pics, Black Widows sharing kit with stormtroopers should have an amazing variety to work with especially given the accessory kits. You have a feth ton of RH ladies on the way too right? GW has a lot of solid competition in the IG space atm.
Yeah I don't like the suicidal nature of ST rules, doesn't fit with the fluff of them being the elite of the IG.
I wish they could dig in, like some Infinity units do. Porta-cover save. Although with the recent "no cover save" bounty of weapons out there, I'm not sure if it would change much.
As for the female minis... I ordered a few spare DFG stormtroopers from Hoard o'Bitz, combined with Statuesque heads and the four female heads from the WGF Russian set... I hope I can get them to work.
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Post by: Paradigm
I already run 30 ST just as elites, if they were shifted to troops then they would see the field every game, I find the more you use, the more you get out of them, so being able to run more than 30 would be great. I'd also love to see Bastonne moved to be an upgrade to ST, as his fluff and rules both seem to fit them better than vets.
If codex Inq has ST as troops, you can bet I'll be bringing them by the dozen.
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Post by: Miguelsan
Funny that now they want to bring back ST. Next year I'm going for horde IG, so from the rumours unless GW releases a Steel Legion IS kit or the like I'm totally not interested in new tanks or ST kit.
That also has the advantage that unless IG suddenly turns into an elite army the next codex can't screw up my IG.
M.
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Post by: gmaleron
 Red Corsair wrote:Imagine if valks go to AV11 and become dedicated troop carriers and vultures got to FA.... Imagine the fit over the web....won't happen but it's a hilarious thought.
Valks and Vendettas wont go down to armor 11-11-10, that is just ridiculous. Unlike other fliers the Valkyrie and Vendetta's are also APC with troop transport capabilites, meaning naturally they would have heavier armor then the standard dog fighter or bomber to ensure their cargo reaches the ground. Points increase I can understand and can see happening, other then that nothing else.
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Post by: Chrysis
 gmaleron wrote: Red Corsair wrote:Imagine if valks go to AV11 and become dedicated troop carriers and vultures got to FA.... Imagine the fit over the web....won't happen but it's a hilarious thought.
Valks and Vendettas wont go down to armor 11-11-10, that is just ridiculous. Unlike other fliers the Valkyrie and Vendetta's are also APC with troop transport capabilites, meaning naturally they would have heavier armor then the standard dog fighter or bomber to ensure their cargo reaches the ground. Points increase I can understand and can see happening, other then that nothing else.
Valkyries and Vendettas weren't always AV12. They only became AV12 when they became Fast Skimmers rather than Flyers. Now that they're flyers again, going back to AV11 is not out of the question. Don't forget that the Guard's mainline APC is only AV10 on the sides, so using it being an APC as justification for AV12 is a little thin.
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Post by: Happygrunt
MrMoustaffa wrote: Happygrunt wrote:
Chimeras are listed as troops though, so I am banking on this being a website screw up and not intentional.
Although tech priests are now in elites...
Well yeah, they're transports that can be taken by troops, that's not exactly surprising.
Yes, but every other army has a dedicated transport section while IG dose not.
Again, most likely a screw up on GWs part.
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Post by: Delboy
Happygrunt wrote: MrMoustaffa wrote: Happygrunt wrote:
Chimeras are listed as troops though, so I am banking on this being a website screw up and not intentional.
Although tech priests are now in elites...
Well yeah, they're transports that can be taken by troops, that's not exactly surprising.
Yes, but every other army has a dedicated transport section while IG dose not.
Again, most likely a screw up on GWs part.
Eldar, Tau, Chaos and Orks don't have dedicated transport sections, and the chimera has been in the troop section for a long time.
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Post by: Sir Arun
I really really hope all of the special characters make it into the new codex, I'd be really pissed if they created a new special character last edition only to drop him in the next one.
Also, a new female special character would be cool, like that IG heroine from the Space Marine game.
Finally, what I want to see in the new IG codex is balance in the Leman Russ variant department. Pointswise, I want every LR variant to be worth taking when facing different scenarios. RIght now only the standard LR and Demolisher are really worth it, everyone else (perhaps with the exception of the Vanquisher and Extinquisher (?..the one with the plasma cannons) are too costly.
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Post by: happygolucky
Sir Arun wrote:I really really hope all of the special characters make it into the new codex, I'd be really pissed if they created a new special character last edition only to drop him in the next one. Also, a new female special character would be cool, like that IG heroine from the Space Marine game. Finally, what I want to see in the new IG codex is balance in the Leman Russ variant department. Pointswise, I want every LR variant to be worth taking when facing different scenarios. RIght now only the standard LR and Demolisher are really worth it, everyone else (perhaps with the exception of the Vanquisher and Extinquisher (?..the one with the plasma cannons) are too costly.
Well since they did do Rambo- ... I mean Marbo, I can only guess they would do Ripley:  Also included, for an upgrade of 45pts Experimental Sentinel LV-428...  Special Rule: Nuke 'em from orbit: Ripley has preferred enemy (Tyranids) and Hatred (Tyranids). *Just add Aquila's everywhere and the Idea is soundproof (although this would be awesome for a Cadian SC) I secondly vote for a LR points reduction, as I wish the exterminator was not around 805pts for a squad of 3, I want to flood the board with Tanks, not have one squad trundling along..
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Post by: sierra 1247
^ Oh my fething christ yes!!!
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Post by: xruslanx
Sir Arun wrote: RIght now only the standard LR and Demolisher are really worth it, everyone else (perhaps with the exception of the Vanquisher and Extinquisher (?..the one with the plasma cannons) are too costly.
Well this...is not entirely true. The vanilla/Demolisher Russ are pretty sucky at the moment, the Executioner (the plasma one) is generally regarded as the best.
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Post by: Frankenberry
You sir are a god among men and I love everything you stand for.
I'm actually pretty excited about any updates they do for the IG, I'd really like to be able to use more of my stuff. And I wouldn't mind multiple load out arty kits, or Vets, or plastic ST's...well, anything like I said.
Fingers are now crossed for maximum wishlist mode.
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Post by: Spinner
I would love love love a Ripley sentinel pilot character. Hell, I'm tempted to write one up myself.
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Post by: KommissarKiln
Hey, does anyone else have the feeling that the Attilan Rough Riders are going up the river? They are tragically underplayed and underpowered, and the fluff seems forced, as if they'd be better in Fantasy. Thoughts?
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Post by: xruslanx
well they've made it this far, i think they fit in as much now as they ever have.
I'd expect them to get a boost, even if it's not as big as the community would like. I don't think they should have to assault from reserves, for example. Maybe they could be a dirt-cheap cavalry horde. Or toughness 4 and some sort of funky special weapon.
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Post by: Bonde
xruslanx wrote:well they've made it this far, i think they fit in as much now as they ever have.
I'd expect them to get a boost, even if it's not as big as the community would like. I don't think they should have to assault from reserves, for example. Maybe they could be a dirt-cheap cavalry horde. Or toughness 4 and some sort of funky special weapon.
Rough riders should definately be T3(4), since they are riding on horses Otherwise i think they are pretty solid IMO.
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Post by: Senden
Special Rule: Here comes the Cavalry:
In the turn a Rough Riders unit arrives from reserve it may assault as normal
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Post by: Apologist
Is that a rumour, or wishlisting?
If Rough Riders do make it in (and I hope they do), I wouldn't be surprised to see them be substantially reworked, with the models something like the front cover of Apocalypse. These share design touches with Atillans (furry hats etc), but wouldn't look out of place alongside Vostroyans, Cadians and the like.
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Post by: Senden
Apologist wrote:Is that a rumour, or wishlisting?
If Rough Riders do make it in (and I hope they do), I wouldn't be surprised to see them be substantially reworked, with the models something like the front cover of Apocalypse. These share design touches with Atillans (furry hats etc), but wouldn't look out of place alongside Vostroyans, Cadians and the like.
Wishlisting.
Also can we get rough riders on motorcycles?
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Post by: Sir Arun
If you've seen the Forgeworld DkoK Rough Rider models, you know those are the only kinds of horses you will see in a 40k setting.
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Post by: WonderAliceLand
Wow, if this is right, my army is nerfed. I rely on cheap vendettas and meltavet spam.... now I lose a meltagun and my vendetta's double in price. Not a happy camper if this are true, but I cant say I didn't see it coming with the vendetta, just dont understand why they are nerfing the vets...
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Post by: happygolucky
 Ryan_A wrote:Wow, if this is right, my army is nerfed. I rely on cheap vendettas and meltavet spam.... now I lose a meltagun and my vendetta's double in price. Not a happy camper if this are true, but I cant say I didn't see it coming with the vendetta, just dont understand why they are nerfing the vets...
I wouldn't sweat over it other armies got changes as well, such as for Tau, broadside Str 10 spam was changed, I would take it as rather a challenge than a nerf, as when it comes out I know I will be experimenting with Guard see what fits with what. Either way I think it will be a good release still whatever they do now
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Post by: ultimentra
I don't think GW would want to nerf into oblivion one of their more popular armies.
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Post by: Brother SRM
 ultimentra wrote:I don't think GW would want to nerf into oblivion one of their more popular armies.
Every 6th ed codex has been at least decent for when it came out, even if every build hasn't been perfect. Also, don't forget, before the current IG book, they weren't exactly a powerful army. I think IG will be fine, even if the viable builds may change, which is par for the course.
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Post by: Kanluwen
As long as Vendettas get nerfed into nonexistence and Vultures get added in, I'd be a happy Guardsman.
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Post by: Brother SRM
Then you'll probably be a pretty sad Guardsman, since that's very, very specific
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Post by: Kanluwen
Well to be fair, I just hate Vendettas. They were shoehorned in and annoy me to no end.
The Vendetta is proof that Cruddace is worse than Ward, in my mind.
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Post by: notprop
I've never used a vendetta or vets.
I have to gets some if I want to be different if this is true!
I think in safe with my Sentinwall though.
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Post by: 1hadhq
Plastic Stormtroopers?
If I can afford them ....maybe.
Still waiting for the self-proppelled artillery and other Tanks we are missing.
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Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
Are Adepta Sororitas counted as a 6th codex ?
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Post by: Brother SRM
I would say not, since it's just a 5th ed semi-codex with some extra details thrown in to modernize it. I'm talking hardback book releases with new plastic kits and the like.
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Post by: KommissarKiln
I won't mind the impending hit to the vendetta. Maybe it'll get only a small point increase but have only a single TL Lascannon instead of valkyrie's ML (seeing as it's also popular for its low cost)? Will any tanks get point changes that you know of or are predicting? LRBT variants or the HH family?
But I'd hate for vets to lose their 3rd special weapon slot. If vets only get 2, storm troopers had better get 3.
Also, I still want sentinels to have CCW automatic or purchasable because otherwise the chainsaw bit is solely decorative.
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Post by: Sir Arun
So is the Vendetta or the Crimson Hunter or the Stormraven the king of anti-air flyers?
Vendetta has the 3 TL-S9 AP2 Lascannons at BS3
Crimson Hunter has 2 S8 AP2 lance + 2 S8 AP3 weapons at BS4 or BS5
Stormraven has 1 TL-MM, 1TL-Las and upto 2 (out of 6) S8 AP1 one-shot missiles at BS4 per turn
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Post by: SonicPara
Sir Arun wrote:So is the Vendetta or the Crimson Hunter or the Stormraven the king of anti-air flyers?
Vendetta has the 3 TL-S9 AP2 Lascannons at BS3
Crimson Hunter has 2 S8 AP2 lance + 2 S8 AP3 weapons at BS4 or BS5
Stormraven has 1 TL- MM, 1TL-Las and upto 2 (out of 6) S8 AP1 one-shot missiles at BS4 per turn
Considering the Crimson Hunter's Pulse Laser can TL the Bright Lances and it can reroll any failed penetration rolls through Skyhunter, I would say the Crimson Hunter is the king of anti-air alpha strike. When it comes to shooting second, it falls apart due to light armor.
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Post by: Sir Arun
pulse laser doesnt have laser lock. Youre confusing it with the scatter laser. But you got a valid point with Skyhunter. And the Crimson Hunter also has a 16.66% chance of making precision shots if you purchase the BS5 Exarch.
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Post by: Perfect Organism
Precision shots aren't much use for air-to-air, but I'd say the Crimson Hunter does have a massive advantage in that it's the only one with Vector Dancer. Doesn't matter how many guns you have if you can't point them at the enemy.
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Post by: gmaleron
I only am concerned if they add the doctrines in or not, and one of them being either an "Elysian" or "Harakoni Warhawk" one where it would allow you to create an Airborne themed army. I am hoping for Valkyries as dedicated Transports with deep striking Infantry Squads for that doctrine, because if they don't then I will probably be selling my Elysians as Forgeworld is banned at my store and people don't want to play me in friendly games very often because of all the flyers.
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Post by: sphynx
10 man weapon teams don't make a whole deal of sense to me.
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Post by: portugus
Some of the main weakness with heavy weapon teams was that they lose one dude they can run off the board. They can't take a vox for orders. They cost a lot for a single str 6 weapon to run them off the board. So that is a possible way to have people actually use them in game. (I don't think it'll really happen but we'll see)
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Post by: Sir Arun
On some youtube batreps I saw parked chimeras with a HW team base on top of it. Does it mean they can board it and fire out of its fire points?
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Post by: HoverBoy
Yea but they take a turn to climb on there reducing them to snapshots.
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Post by: portugus
Most likely it was a veteran squad with a heavy weapon. Yes a chimera would help keep them alive. But then at that points cost certain people will just start saying to get a vendetta..
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Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
gmaleron wrote:I will probably be selling my Elysians as Forgeworld is banned at my store and people don't want to play me in friendly games very often because of all the flyers.
Well, don't sell them : next edition will certainly nerf what was powerful in 6th (i.e. flyers), and people will happily play against your nerfed army.
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Post by: portugus
Yes, I concur. Never just sell your army, wait until the next edition (big change) or until you get an amazing offer :p You never know what the new codex will bring. Maybe vendettas will only be able to shoot every other turn or automatically die on turn 3 due to lack of fuel or something giving your opponent a victory point even in objective games. People would be begging to play you then :p
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Post by: Sir Arun
So any new rumors on IG? Will they be coming Q1 2014 or later?
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Post by: GorillaWarfare
I like the idea of 5-10 man vet squads, with a choice of heavy weapon and special weapon per 5 men.
Being able to take 2 heavy weapon will make them more viable for a fire support role. I don't mind the lose of a special weapon, I always thought 3 was a bit much.
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Post by: Sarge
I'll miss my triple melta vet squads, assuming any of that comes true. I liked the fact that the vet squads could dish out a ton of hurt since they certainly couldn't take much hurting in return.
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Post by: portugus
@GorillaWarfare - That would be neat to have a Harker squad with say 1 heavy bolter and 2 lascannons with how ever many plasma guns. :p
or 3 heavy bolters and snipers
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Post by: Sir Arun
I hope the special characters become cheaper. Right no they are too costly.
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Post by: Happygrunt
Has this been posted yet? And do we know if it is fake or not?
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Post by: Swastakowey
I think they are metal ones repackaged. Look exactly the same as the originals.
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Post by: CthuluIsSpy
Wouldn't they be in finecast then? Good to see the possibility of SL on the shelves again. Having Cadians and Catachans was getting old.
Maybe we'll see Mordians and Valhallans as well.
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Post by: Vain
There is a News Topic about the Steel Legion photo being fake. Check the photo and you will see the minis are holding their lasguns in their left arms.
They are just image flips of the current models in a fancy photoshop background.
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Post by: Snrub
Yeah Happygrunt that pic was confirmed fake in this thread.
It's easy to tell it's a fake though. They're all left handed.
Silly Games Workshop. There are no left handed people in the Forty-first millennium. Everyone knows they were all eradicated in the great left-right wars of M23.
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Post by: Sir Arun
100% fake. Notice the 40k logo is pointing straight at us while the script at the bottom left is at an angle. that defies physics.
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Post by: Javin
AH well. Right now all I am tracking is a new artillery combi- kit and a storm trooper/vet kit. Anything else?
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Post by: Happygrunt
 Snrub wrote:Yeah Happygrunt that pic was confirmed fake in this thread.
It's easy to tell it's a fake though. They're all left handed.
Silly Games Workshop. There are no left handed people in the Forty-first millennium. Everyone knows they were all eradicated in the great left-right wars of M23.
Whopsie, didn't see that.
And I didn't catch the left handed thing either!
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Well it's not so much that the models are fake - those models do exist after all - but more that we ain't getting any boxes of 5 Steel Legion in fancy new packaging. A clever bit of fakery though.
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Post by: Snrub
Oh you and your nitpickery H. *chortle*
You are right though. It is a clever bit of fakery. It'd be pretty damn convincing to if they weren't all left handed. The faker has ever gone to the trouble of giving them the faded mirroring that those boxes have. I don't really know how hard that is to do, but kudos to him for effort put in.
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Post by: Medium of Death
I still don't believe they'd make a new artillery kit and not roll the Basilisk into it too.
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Post by: Haight
Not sure if anyone saw this yet, but over at BOLS they are claiming rumors of a new big malcador style tank (bigger than a landraider, smaller than a baneblade), and a couple other tidbits that have been known (plastic stormtroops/vets, etc):
Also a new flier which is a dogfighter, but neither a lightning or thunderbolt - never before seen per the rumor. Interesting !
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2013/12/40k-rumors-ig-rumormill-ramping-up.html
Not sure if its anything new, but thought i'd share as i didn't see anything about it.
I'm eagerly looking forward to this book, as i can finally do a Smidge of Guard, Smidge of Space Marines and Smidge of Inquisition and have a full power and might of the imperium themed force.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Here's a rumor for you:
Imperial Guard are getting a new Codex!
That's pretty much what I'm reading from BOLS. There's enough precedent to make really believable rumors without ever having any kind of source.
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Post by: Haight
Except that it says four much more distinct pieces of information ?
New tank sized between land raider and baneblade.
New dogfighter purposed flier never before seen (not a lightning, not a thunder bolt)
Info on changes to the basilisk model.
Info on a plastic vet guard / stormtrooper kit.
... seems much more than "Herp a Derp, new codex" to me.
The plastic stormtrooper kit 'ive heard before, and i've heard rumblings of a new tank (though the sizing is new), but the basilisk and new flier are news to me. I might have missed them of course, but it seemed like there was at least a little meat on the bone more than "new book".
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Post by: Inquisitor Jex
Snrub wrote:
Silly Games Workshop. There are no left handed people in the Forty-first millennium. Everyone knows they were all eradicated in the great left-right wars of M23.
Funny you mention that, because there was always something that stuck me odd on the Ig Codex cover
Even is lasgun seems to be of a spacial make
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Post by: Dryaktylus
Snrub wrote:Yeah Happygrunt that pic was confirmed fake in this thread.
It's easy to tell it's a fake though. They're all left handed.
Silly Games Workshop. There are no left handed people in the Forty-first millennium. Everyone knows they were all eradicated in the great left-right wars of M23.
Oh there are left-handed people around. I guess the high number of those mutants in their ranks was their downfall...
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Post by: Tower75
Heretics!
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Post by: Snrub
 Dryaktylus wrote:Oh there are left-handed people around. I guess the high number of those mutants in their ranks was their downfall...
Huh.... now that's weird. I've never noticed that they are left handed.
There are also a few autogun wielding left handed cultists in the DV box that I'm particularly fond of. Good to see some lefties creeping their way in. Even if only for realisms sake.
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Post by: CthuluIsSpy
I found there appears to be quite a few left handed orks as well. So mutants and aliens are lefties. Go figure. Guess I'm a mutie
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Post by: Anpu42
Going beyond Weapons, this is what I would like to see
HQ:
>The ability just to take a Commander without the Company Command Squad
>Company Command Squads getting Valkuries as a Dedicated Transport
>A Cavalry Commander that lets you take/make Rough Riders
>Squat Commander
>Company Commander Pask, allows Tanks to be take/make Troops
>Commanders give army wide Doctrines
Elites:
>Storm Troopers getting Valkuries as a Dedicated Transport
>Squat Squad, Carapace upgradable to Power Armor.
>Ogryn getting Rending, Range?, Defiantly Melee and able to buy Carapace Amor
Troops:
>Sergeants getting access to Las Gun
>Beastman Squads
Fast Attack
>Rough Rider get T 3(4) and/or W2, Options for Power Lances or 2nd Las Pistol
>Vendetta loosing Transport Capacity and/or Price Hike.
>Assault Squad with options for twin Las Pistols, Jump Packs and/or Bike
Heavy Support:
>Heavy Weapons Squads, 4 Heavy Weapon Teams, Sergeant and Vox Caster.
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Post by: Mathieu Raymond
 Anpu42 wrote:Going beyond Weapons, this is what I would like to see
HQ:
>The ability just to take a Commander without the Company Command Squad
>Company Command Squads getting Valkuries as a Dedicated Transport
>A Cavalry Commander that lets you take/make Rough Riders
>Squat Commander
>Company Commander Pask, allows Tanks to be take/make Troops
>Commanders give army wide Doctrines
Elites:
>Storm Troopers getting Valkuries as a Dedicated Transport
>Squat Squad, Carapace upgradable to Power Armor.
>Ogryn getting Rending, Range?, Defiantly Melee and able to buy Carapace Amor
Troops:
>Sergeants getting access to Las Gun
>Beastman Squads
Fast Attack
>Rough Rider get T 3(4) and/or W2, Options for Power Lances or 2nd Las Pistol
>Vendetta loosing Transport Capacity and/or Price Hike.
>Assault Squad with options for twin Las Pistols, Jump Packs and/or Bike
Heavy Support:
>Heavy Weapons Squads, 4 Heavy Weapon Teams, Sergeant and Vox Caster.
My name is Mathieu, and I approve this message.
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Post by: Snrub
Anpu42 wrote:A Cavalry Commander that lets you take/make Rough Riders
Yes. I want to run a full Cav army.
Anpu42 wrote:Company Commander Pask, allows Tanks to be take/make Troops
YEEEEEEEEEES! I want to run a full tank company dammit.
I'd love to see doctrines back.
Anpu42 wrote:Ogryn getting Rending, Range?, Defiantly Melee and able to buy Carapace Amour
Ogryns need a price drop and carapace armour. I can deal with everything else.
This. So very much this.
Anpu42 wrote:Rough Rider get T 3(4) and/or W2, Options for Power Lances or 2nd Las Pistol
I'm not quite sure what Rough riders need to make them usable but this looks like a good start.
Anpu42 wrote:Vendetta loosing Transport Capacity and/or Price Hike.
Probably not a bad idea dropping the troop capacity.
Anpu42 wrote:Heavy Weapons Squads, 4 Heavy Weapon Teams, Sergeant and Vox Caster.
Heavy weapon squads need a vox so badly. So very very badly.
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Post by: notprop
Inquisitor Jex wrote: Snrub wrote:
Silly Games Workshop. There are no left handed people in the Forty-first millennium. Everyone knows they were all eradicated in the great left-right wars of M23.
Funny you mention that, because there was always something that stuck me odd on the Ig Codex cover
Even is lasgun seems to be of a spacial make
That Commissar looks like a lefty to me as well....
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Post by: BrookM
As is the commander, or most officer types for that matter when brandishing both pistol and some sort of melee weapon.
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Post by: Snrub
Commie and commander both look right handed to me.
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Post by: Panic
yeah, Dryaktylus wrote:There are also a few autogun wielding left handed cultists in the DV box that I'm particularly fond of. Good to see some lefties creeping their way in. Even if only for realisms sake.
In the DV box GW took a digital short cut. They designed 4 right hand cultists models, they then digitally horizontal fliped the the 3D image. made a few tweaks .. Boom 8 models!.. plus 1 leader and 1 heavy to make 10. Same trick with the pistol/ CCW combat guys.. So it's not a shift in GW policy.. just a cheap trick! Panic...
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Post by: Bull0
Call it a cheap trick, but doesn't the end result look pretty nice? Doesn't make a huge difference to me as long as the models come out OK, which for single-pose push-fits those cultists sure do. Samey if you want to run a big blob, I suppose...
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
I don't think GW has a "policy" on left handed minis.
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Post by: happygolucky
GW surprises us all
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Post by: Anpu42
To be honest all I realy hope for is that I don't have to buy new models to male a Legal List. The 5th ed was the 1st one that I was ever able to do that with.
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Post by: MajorStoffer
To be fair, most of the new codexes have built upon previous strengths, and have shifted strengths rather than totally redesigned them, at least in the case of books which weren't badly outdated. Out of all of them, only Tau and Chaos got a pretty major shift in what you needed to do well with a strong focus on new models. I imagine there might be some re-equipping of wargear on existing Guard armies, a shift in focus way from vendettas and mechvets to something else, but without invalidating those options, at least as far as general play goes.
Truly, I'm hoping they make Tankguard a more viable force; every faction has their niche or unique flavour which has been catered to with the new books, with Chaos as a notable exception (seemingly as always, but I digress). For me, I've always associated the Imperial Guard with armour and artillery, something none of the so-far updated armies are particularly geared towards. Eldar's as close as it gets, I think, given Wave Serpents, so I want to see the Glorious Leman Russ made a bit better.
This may or may not have something to do with the veritable motor pool of them I've got. I've lucked out with Marines, as I had a ton of honour guard when they sucked. Maybe my 20 stormtroopers and 11 Russes will soon become the bane of the tabletop!
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Post by: Sir Arun
They've already got that, it's called Armored Battle Group.
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Post by: Snrub
Where are the rules for said Armoured Battle Group?
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Post by: l0k1
Imperial Armor, I forget which volume.
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Post by: Sir Arun
vol 2 i think. completely legal (unless you play tourney in that case ask your TO) but not bound by the "ask your opponent for permission" rule.
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Post by: MajorStoffer
I play Armoured Battlegroup quite often, while fun, it's not exactly viable.
Can't score anything, and russes aren't exactly key powerhouses in the era of Eldar and hullpoints.
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Post by: Herzlos
Snrub wrote:Yeah Happygrunt that pic was confirmed fake in this thread.
It's easy to tell it's a fake though. They're all left handed.
Silly Games Workshop. There are no left handed people in the Forty-first millennium. Everyone knows they were all eradicated in the great left-right wars of M23.
GW have flipped the box art images before, as well as left in all sorts of editing mistakes. I'm not saying this is a real box, but lefties on the box isn't completely unlikely.
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Post by: xruslanx
Sir Arun wrote:vol 2 i think. completely legal (unless you play tourney in that case ask your TO) but not bound by the "ask your opponent for permission" rule.
I think a lot of people want tank armies in an 'official' setting, i.e. In the actual codex. Not only would this cut down on arguements, but we might get our own warlord table, specifically written for a vehicle hq!
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Post by: Bull0
TIL Imperial Armour books "aren't official". Automatically Appended Next Post: Herzlos wrote:GW have flipped the box art images before, as well as left in all sorts of editing mistakes. I'm not saying this is a real box, but lefties on the box isn't completely unlikely.
The fact that the reflections don't match the minis and they're clearly the old metal sculpts would seem to be to be pretty big giveaways, too.
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Post by: thenoobbomb
 Bull0 wrote:TIL Imperial Armour books "aren't official".
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Herzlos wrote:GW have flipped the box art images before, as well as left in all sorts of editing mistakes. I'm not saying this is a real box, but lefties on the box isn't completely unlikely.
The fact that the reflections don't match the minis and they're clearly the old metal sculpts would seem to be to be pretty big giveaways, too.
They are official, though.
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Post by: Bull0
Yeah, if we've got to the point where putting something stupid in speechmarks doesn't denote obvious sarcasm, I give up.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
It's ok, I thought it was "funny".
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Post by: Bull0
I see what you "did there".
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Post by: xruslanx
 thenoobbomb wrote: Bull0 wrote:TIL Imperial Armour books "aren't official".
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Herzlos wrote:GW have flipped the box art images before, as well as left in all sorts of editing mistakes. I'm not saying this is a real box, but lefties on the box isn't completely unlikely.
The fact that the reflections don't match the minis and they're clearly the old metal sculpts would seem to be to be pretty big giveaways, too.
They are official, though.
Not to everyone. Also if armoured battlegroups were in the main codex they could nave access to scoring units, warlord traits, maybe even vehicle-mounted relics.
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Post by: Bull0
I don't think "official" means what you think it means.
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Post by: thenoobbomb
xruslanx wrote: thenoobbomb wrote: Bull0 wrote:TIL Imperial Armour books "aren't official".
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Herzlos wrote:GW have flipped the box art images before, as well as left in all sorts of editing mistakes. I'm not saying this is a real box, but lefties on the box isn't completely unlikely.
The fact that the reflections don't match the minis and they're clearly the old metal sculpts would seem to be to be pretty big giveaways, too.
They are official, though.
Not to everyone. Also if armoured battlegroups were in the main codex they could nave access to scoring units, warlord traits, maybe even vehicle-mounted relics.
I guess the law isn't in effect to everyone, either
I'm fine with people not playing FW, but, as Peregrine likes to point out, that's just a houserule.
And I think it's the point of Armored Battlegroup that you can't claim objectives etc.
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Post by: Sir Arun
Wait can't Armored Battle Group armies take a Chimera with Melta vets as scoring? Only their Russes cant score I think.
Also, speaking of 6th edition and HPs, remember that 6th edition also means you can park 4 russes behind an aegis defence line. I'd like to see your opponent get past AV 14 and a 4+ cover save all the while being in perfect LoS and range. As long as the ABG player takes some kind of countermeasure to deep striking (make a conga line of an allied 20 man squad of eldar guardians with rending shuriken at the AV 10 backs of the tanks? ), he should be fine.
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Post by: Slayer le boucher
Why can't they score?, they are troops choices, and nowhere is there a rule that says that they can't score like with BA DC or scarabs or ripper swarms...
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Post by: Kirasu
This is like a general discussion thread now with no updates for 2 months, and even that update is completely suspect..
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Post by: Sir Arun
 Slayer le boucher wrote:Why can't they score?, they are troops choices, and nowhere is there a rule that says that they can't score like with BA DC or scarabs or ripper swarms...
ABG special rules state they cant score, I think. You need to have a copy of Imperial Armor vol. 2 at hand to check. But I dunno if this applies to vets in chimeras as well.
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Post by: alarmingrick
 Kirasu wrote:This is like a general discussion thread now with no updates for 2 months, and even that update is completely suspect..
I agree 100%. There's nothing to see but wish listing and speculation. This thread should stay quiet until there's some "there, there", IMHO.
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Post by: BunkerBob
I want a rough rider army so I can have Theodore Roosevelt launching a bike from the back end of hovering valkyrie while shooting guns into the air. Then I'll do a George Washington Commando army.
'Murica
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Post by: KommissarKiln
 BunkerBob wrote:I want a rough rider army so I can have Theodore Roosevelt launching a bike from the back end of hovering valkyrie while shooting guns into the air. Then I'll do a George Washington Commando army.
'Murica
No idea what was just said here except it was born of liquid awesome and the good ol' American spirit.
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Post by: Slayer le boucher
Sir Arun wrote: Slayer le boucher wrote:Why can't they score?, they are troops choices, and nowhere is there a rule that says that they can't score like with BA DC or scarabs or ripper swarms...
ABG special rules state they cant score, I think. You need to have a copy of Imperial Armor vol. 2 at hand to check. But I dunno if this applies to vets in chimeras as well.
Just Checked the IA 1 second edition, nothing in there that says that ABG Russes in troops arn't scoring, just that due to the nature of the list, it might be difficult to hold objectives only with thoses and that its a good idea to always have a fex Armoured Fist squads for that and that such a list is a challenge to play and try.
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Post by: Sir Arun
i think IA 1 is outdated.
Also, 6th edition says vehicles arent scoring, not even dedicated transports with a scoring unit in them, as long as it doesnt disembark. that must be it.
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Post by: Peregrine
xruslanx wrote:Not to everyone. Also if armoured battlegroups were in the main codex they could nave access to scoring units, warlord traits, maybe even vehicle-mounted relics.
The ABG list in IA1 has these things already. All it needs is for GW to say "STFU you idiots, FW is part of the game and you're TFG if you won't accept it". Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nope. It's a current 6th edition list with warlord traits/ HP/etc. It will probably need updating soon when the new codex arrives, but for now it's just fine.
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Post by: Slayer le boucher
Sir Arun wrote:i think IA 1 is outdated.
Also, 6th edition says vehicles arent scoring, not even dedicated transports with a scoring unit in them, as long as it doesnt disembark. that must be it.
IA1 SECOND EDITION, is the updated for 6th Ed book of the IG.
Its true that transports for Troops units doesn't count has Troop units, and can't score, even if a Troop unit is in it, but thats the only restriction.
Since Leman Russes in a ABG are not transports, and are real troops choices, they score has any other Troops choice.
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Post by: Peregrine
Slayer le boucher wrote:Since Leman Russes in a ABG are not transports, and are real troops choices, they score has any other Troops choice.
No they do not. Vehicles never score or deny, even when they are troops, unless they have a special rule that specifically makes them scoring. The tanks in the ABG list are non-scoring troops units, and there's even a note in the introduction that talks about how objectives will be difficult for you and you have to balance tank spam vs. getting some scoring units onto objectives and keeping them alive.
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Post by: Slayer le boucher
This note does say that it will be difficult and that they should add armoured fist squads for this, yes.
But nowhere does it says that the Battle Tanks squadrons of the list doesn't score.
Find me where in the IA1 second edition does it says something like" although the battle tanks squadrons are troops choices, they can't hold objectives...", i don't see it.
it says it will be difficult, because vehicles can be more easely destroyed then troops units, and thus it will bemore difficult to hold the objectifs, not that the LR in troops can't take them.
Also the bit in the BRB about vehicles never be scoring is about transports vehicles taken has dedicated transports for troops units.
Now vehicles can't effectively deny objectives, that doesn't change.
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Post by: HoverBoy
Rulebook pg.123, vehicles never score unless a rule says they do.
The IA book not giving them such permission means they follow the normal rules.
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Post by: BlaxicanX
Slayer le boucher wrote: Also the bit in the BRB about vehicles never be scoring is about transports vehicles taken has dedicated transports for troops units.
No it isn't, because the statement in question makes a specific distinction between vehicles and dedicated transports. Page 123: "There are a few exceptions, however, when a unit of troops does not count as a scoring unit: - if it is a vehicle, or is a unit currently embarked on a Transport vehicle." That it goes out of its way to specify between vehicles and dedicated transports rules out the notion that it is referring only to dedicated transports. The rule is quite clear. A troop choice that is a vehicle can not be scoring.
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Post by: Slayer le boucher
Well thats a bummer.
A lot of splitting hair for nothing i guess.
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Post by: xruslanx
 Peregrine wrote:xruslanx wrote:Not to everyone. Also if armoured battlegroups were in the main codex they could nave access to scoring units, warlord traits, maybe even vehicle-mounted relics.
The ABG list in IA1 has these things already. All it needs is for GW to say "STFU you idiots, FW is part of the game and you're TFG if you won't accept it".
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nope. It's a current 6th edition list with warlord traits/ HP/etc. It will probably need updating soon when the new codex arrives, but for now it's just fine.
There are plenty of reasons that people wouldn't want to play against an armoured battlegroup list. Please don't lable such people as 'idiots'.
Also, it was my understanding that armoured battle groups couldn't score, since that fact gets forced down our throats whenever forgeworld is bought up.
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Post by: reds8n
I think we're done here until we get some more solid rumours or information.
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