Looks a lot better in the video with different angles and stuff. Not at the top of my list, but once I get caught up I may go with this for my big leader model rather than the Sigmarous Prime, if there isn't something else new and huge by then

[MOD EDIT - RULE #1 and RULE #2 - ALPHARIUS]

 Ghaz wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Wouldn't those gold plated armor things directly over the wing joints need to be articulated in order for it to open it's wings for flight? From what I can tell it can't even logically open it's wings due to that useless additional detailing.

You're assuming that the fictional, magical star-metal isn't flexible.

Yes. I'm also assuming that the fictional magical star-dragon's wings' purpose is for flight. Granted, it is a fictional magical being so for all I know it's wings might be purely ornamental in nature and it may just fly around on a cloud of lightning-farts. But in real life wings are used for flying and metal isn't bendy, so star-farts aside, armor that prevents the use of the wings is problematic IMHO.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
so star-farts aside

Be frank, no fantasy dragon can fly without the help of magic.

I'm digging it. With the 360 view I find it really cool. My only wish is that this was an Everchosen release instead of SE but whatever. It's a great model and I'll get one someday.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Wouldn't those gold plated armor things directly over the wing joints need to be articulated in order for it to open it's wings for flight? From what I can tell it can't even logically open it's wings due to that useless additional detailing.

Im not sure. Thought about this when the pics first appeared. To me it looks like the wing armour is scaled and crafted so it will follow the movement of the wings.
Besides, if it walk with the wings like that its smart to protect those parts of the wings (however, the fact that marines and terminators often wont use helmets make the "smart armour" argument sound flat).

Dont like the model as a whole. The wings look really nice, just not on that model.
Looks like the sprues has mostly separate armour plates, but just mostly...

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Wouldn't those gold plated armor things directly over the wing joints need to be articulated in order for it to open it's wings for flight? From what I can tell it can't even logically open it's wings due to that useless additional detailing.

You're assuming that the fictional, magical star-metal isn't flexible.

Yes. I'm also assuming that the fictional magical star-dragon's wings' purpose is for flight. Granted, it is a fictional magical being so for all I know it's wings might be purely ornamental in nature and it may just fly around on a cloud of lightning-farts. But in real life wings are used for flying and metal isn't bendy, so star-farts aside, armor that prevents the use of the wings is problematic IMHO.

Hey now, have you no respect?! Lightening Farts is a serious condition which hundreds suffer from in the US alone. Tens die from it each year, or after the GREAT Chipotle Festival

I am curious about how the Great Maw will be similar with wings but also head options. Assume all mouths Would need to be open.

Which day do we get the first leaks about the next WD again? I can't wait to see the new Khorne models.

 Haechi wrote:
Which day do we get the first leaks about the next WD again? I can't wait to see the new Khorne models.

Usually about 2 days from now, earlier if we are lucky. I hope we get something more than starter set stuff.

Man the price tag on that Drake from the Aussie page made me cringe.

That open maw head is hilarious. I bet somebody is going to make a diorama with Star Drake being held by its tail or somebody stepping on it.

Looking at the 'Drakesworn Temple' - are they all indeed mono posed, or is it just that they decided to glue them in such way for the website?

The Stardrake looks awkward. Especialy that wings.

GENERAL IN THREAD WARNING TIME!

RULE #1 (BE POLITE)

AND

RULE #2 (STAY ON TOPIC)

ARE MANDATORY!

So, to that end, less LULZ posts please too.

[MOD EDIT - RULE #2 - ALPHARIUS]

Look at that, I must retract what I have said before, this one looks a LOT better on the 360. The spine angle is typical of a Komodo dragon which explains the slight wonky pose, the neck is much better than I previous anticipated.

A good centerpiece for AoS. Bring in the orcs now...

I hope that the some day bring those khorhorat or how its called as a stand alone model instead of the one in the starter box, I am also looking forward to those New khorne models ,

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
I like that beastie chart.

I'm hoping that Star Drake is big enough to warrant that price tag. That's Archaon level prices, or a pair of start collecting boxes.

Any idea how it compares to the Kingdom Death Dragon King? They are almost the same price...

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
I like that beastie chart.

I'm hoping that Star Drake is big enough to warrant that price tag. That's Archaon level prices, or a pair of start collecting boxes.

Any idea how it compares to the Kingdom Death Dragon King? They are almost the same price...

IMO the Dragon King for KD is an awful looking model. That big goofy grin and horns don't do anything for me at all.

The Star Drake is on a 170x105mm base so that should give you a reasonable idea, I think.
This video should help too.
*edit: see previous page for video

The star drake is about 20cm long and a little less than that in height. Here is a comparison pic with Archaon.

 angelofvengeance wrote:

skarsol wrote:

 Korinov wrote:
I wonder if someone will get upset if I go to that new shiny FB page and ask when are Squats coming back.

I posted about Tomb Kings getting the boot. I expect it will just be ignored.

They've been destroyed by Nagash prior to this new setting, so probably not. Still, you guys have your legacy rules so you're not completely out of the game.

And you also have the uncharted empires supplement for KOW, which is probably why they got discontinued.

What happened to that poor dragons front right leg. Looks like he snapped it walking across that rock, or his joints bend backwards on that one leg. Magical all right.

I like its scales and head but the armor is too big and not sure about the wing pose. Rules wise that is a crazy amount of attacks it can put out!

Chikout wrote:
The star drake is about 20cm long and a little less than that in height. Here is a comparison pic with Archaon.

Day-yum! Not to toot my own horn but the size comparison I saw in the WD Wednesday and posted did indeed match this much more clear pic Take the victories where you can get 'em

The 360 video boosts this up a lot better than pics. Especially the consistently crappy leaked pics.

The little metal caps on the wing joint are clearly hinged. I don't think the lightning bolt symbol is actually attached, although it's probably quite dangerous for the animal!

OgreChubbs wrote:
What happened to that poor dragons front right leg. Looks like he snapped it walking across that rock, or his joints bend backwards on that one leg. Magical all right.

Nothing wrong with it. Look how a lizard's bones are set out (in this instance, a Komodo dragon)

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
The little metal caps on the wing joint are clearly hinged. I don't think the lightning bolt symbol is actually attached, although it's probably quite dangerous for the animal!

Not sure which pics you're looking at, but there are no visible hinge points on those wings.

I believe he's referring to the 2 large stud bolts that hold the 3 pieces together. Its conceivable that they hinge at that point.

 angelofvengeance wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:
What happened to that poor dragons front right leg. Looks like he snapped it walking across that rock, or his joints bend backwards on that one leg. Magical all right.

Nothing wrong with it. Look how a lizard's bones are set out (in this instance, a Komodo dragon)

It still looks wrong. If its legs looked like a Komodo's, that'd be fine. It looks more like a horse's leg though in how it is attached.

I wonder how long before we get any hints/info on the supposed Tzeentch stuff? Hopefully there's some juicy Daemon stuff coming, though sadly no LoC it seems.

 nels1031 wrote:
I believe he's referring to the 2 large stud bolts that hold the 3 pieces together. Its conceivable that they hinge at that point.

Pivoting at those points wouldn't allow the wing to extend, because the fitted cap over the actual joint would hold it in place.

Seems like it does in what little artwork in the book shows of the Stardrakes with wings fully extended, but even that is way in the background, like the artist couldn't conceive how it'd work, if its even possible to work. For instance, most of the other Stardrake arwork doesn't show the actual joint, or its drawn in the exact same pose of the miniature.

I think its a poor design choice, to be clear.

I'm sure it's been discussed to death, but the dragon looks funky.

I get that they wanted the Space Marines to ride dragons that
looked a bit more substantial than your average chinese lion
type, but these just look kind of off to me.

It might be the design of the chestplate. It makes them look boxier
than they otherwise might look. I could be wrong though. I
haven't looked at any of this stuff in a while.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
Man, those sprues are sweet. Once again incredibly apparent that GW has their top tier sculptors working exclusively on AoS while 40k has been handed off to the unpaid interns.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law

Submission for Worst Miniatures Ever Made By Mankind




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 malfred wrote:

I get that they wanted the Space Marines to ride dragons that

was the [MOD] accidentally applied to your name?

 judgedoug wrote:

Submission for Worst Miniatures Ever Made By Mankind

They're certainly silly looking, and I like exaggeration as much as the next fifteen billion people... But those are not even close to being the worst miniatures ever made by the company that brought us the original Lemartes, or Nagash, let alone the worst ever made by anyone.


Meanwhile, I believe the discussion at hand is actually about interdimensional star dragons, not GWs sculpting track record.

It is a small change but I think it makes it look better. Not much you can do about the wings or the pose if those are your hang ups.

 judgedoug wrote:

 malfred wrote:

I get that they wanted the Space Marines to ride dragons that

was the [MOD] accidentally applied to your name?

Was the judge title accidentally applied to your username?

Celestians were rumored to be Space Marines in Warhammer. I
stopped following Warhammer once Age of Sigmar actually
dropped. These dragons (and the other mounts) seem to be
sculpted to accommodate the bulky "Space Marine" esque
armor of the Celestians. I don't think it quite works. I'm
not sure why.

Chikout wrote:
It is a small change but I think it makes it look better. Not much you can do about the wings or the pose if those are your hang ups.

That's exactly what I suggested in the thread on AoS General Discussion. If you scratch those lines to make them smoother and then don't highlight them, it will looks way better.

 insaniak wrote:

 nels1031 wrote:
I believe he's referring to the 2 large stud bolts that hold the 3 pieces together. Its conceivable that they hinge at that point.

Pivoting at those points wouldn't allow the wing to extend, because the fitted cap over the actual joint would hold it in place.

Perhaps they are constructed with the same logic that allow spacemarine shoulder pads to slide and lift when the marine make a mighty sword swing?
Or the same craft that make the saddles of the stardrake and magmadroth reliable constructs.

On a more serious note. Its not inconcievable to imagine the wing armour to raise and follow the wing movement, because of the gap made for the claw. But then again, Im not an engineer and just make some ofhanded amateurish statements around here.

I get what the criticisms are but I don't see it as that bad. Maybe I'm enthralled by its bigness As we all know, a noble spirit embiggens the smallest man.
But I do wonder if this latest SE aesthetic wil give us a new look for Tzeentch. The Guant Sorcerer I really like but more for my the Pan's Labrynth eyes, and the BL fiction match. But I miss the fluid flamers and screamers and hope whatever comes is less...angular, I suppose. Hope that makes sense

It doesn't really look like what I would imagine a Star Dragon would look like. It doesn't stand out when compared with the other smaller dragons and drakes. I agree the wings look off. The armor is built like billboards; The shoulders are fine; The chest plate obstructs the neck - should have been smaller or more u-shaped. One of the worst aspects about GW's new kits are the lack of options. For 120$-ish you shouldn't be forced with a specific aesthetic on all features. The Bloodthirster has options for less, I kinda expect more at a higher price. The less options on the higher end items, the less impressive they will be. I'd say the Dwarves are getting the better end on dragons, less clutter/more detail.

As for the were big-cats: They work. I'm not buying them, but I have no problem with them. Cat-people aren't really that popular in any fantasy setting, so odd choice. They possibly wanted a boost to strength with added agility. Reminds me of Kintaro from Mortal Kombat. Like most achievers, he became immune to jokes after killing a few Shokan. GW already gave wolves to Malignants.

Mohawks are wearing thin.

Wolves are Part of the Deathwealkers fraction.

Am I seriously the only one upset the dragon snapped his leg walking over the rocks that follow GW models? It is bending backwards. Front right wrist is broken the dragon looks like he is screaming in pain. And everyone is worried about the leant forward wings?


GW needs to look at some lizards they do not bend their freakishly long wrist they swing their arms outwords due to their shoulder placement unlike mamals that swing them back and forward.

 VeteranNoob wrote:

But I do wonder if this latest SE aesthetic wil give us a new look for Tzeentch. The Guant Sorcerer I really like but more for my the Pan's Labrynth eyes, and the BL fiction match. But I miss the fluid flamers and screamers and hope whatever comes is less...angular, I suppose. Hope that makes sense

Well, khorne stuf for AoS dont look alot like bloodletters and such.
With tzeench they can really have fun and make flying "chaos warriors" or twisted units with ranged magic attacks.
I really hope the gaunt summoner is a representative look for the "new recruits".
However, "angular" tend to be a theme with AoS design.

OgreChubbs wrote:
Am I seriously the only one upset the dragon snapped his leg walking over the rocks that follow GW models? It is bending backwards. Front right wrist is broken the dragon looks like he is screaming in pain. And everyone is worried about the leant forward wings?


GW needs to look at some lizards they do not bend their freakishly long wrist they swing their arms outwords due to their shoulder placement unlike mamals that swing them back and forward.

No, you aren't the only one, a lot of people have mentioned the leg...

 insaniak wrote:

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
The little metal caps on the wing joint are clearly hinged. I don't think the lightning bolt symbol is actually attached, although it's probably quite dangerous for the animal!

Not sure which pics you're looking at, but there are no visible hinge points on those wings.

Artwork in the book indicates they're hinged, or at least bend out of shape *real* easy.

Just when I am about to get into Age of Sigmar, GW brings out more Sigmarines, and I don't want to get in so much as I did last month.

Not sure what it is, but I am finding Sigmarines to be a big turn off in AoS. Everytime I see a Sigmarine, I just want to buy some Privateer Press or something else.

I really find Sigmairnes, boring, bland, dull and no character at all.

Davor wrote:
Just when I am about to get into Age of Sigmar, GW brings out more Sigmarines, and I don't want to get in so much as I did last month.

Not sure what it is, but I am finding Sigmarines to be a big turn off in AoS. Every time I see a Sigmarine, I just want to buy some Privateer Press or something else.

I really find Sigmarines, boring, bland, dull and no character at all.

*sigh* Yes. We all get that some people don't like Stormcasts. But there's plenty of other models to choose from that I'm sure you'll find more interesting than them. In the meantime, can we change the record and move on, please?

Davor wrote:
I really find Sigmairnes, boring, bland, dull and no character at all.

This small comment was insightful for me in a certain way, in that I have a dual-view of the Stormcast. With most armies I see the army and the fluff as part of a greater whole. For instance, I read a novel talking about what a mutalith does to people and that sticks with me when I see the model, giving it character beyond the (sub-par) sculpt. Vice versa, when the same novel describes an advancing horde of chaos my minds eye can envision those ranks of different warriors in a way that I couldn't do if I hadn't seen the models on the table. Yet for Stormcast there is a disconnect. The fluff (and particularly novels) do a great job of giving them character compared to the overall blandness of the models, to the point where they seem like separate entities. The different models of the army are all so similar that they just blend together into a vaguely armor-shaped blob of gold as compared to armies like warriors of chaos which have a singular style to them yet still have distinct identities within that. And I think it comes down to GW stretching multiple weapon options into multiple units to create a false-diversity that isn't really there. This recent release of a battletome with six different unit entries is really just different loadouts for two unit entries; dracoth cavalry and a star drake. The rest of the army is similar, in my head it's really just these units being stretched out to try and fill up more space;

-Liberators
-Judicators
-Paladins
-Prosectors
-Dracoth Knights

-Character with support ability (Relictor, Castellent, Vexillor, Heraldor)
-Flying Character
-Lord Celestent
-Lord Celestent on Dracoth
-Dragon Character
-Celetant Prime

I didn't even include Gryph-Hounds since I don't ever see them on the table (nor would consider them) anyway, on top of conversion/counts-as basically being a requirement to run more than one. But with the hounds included, that makes for 11 units, which in reality are spread across 23 warscrolls. It may be unfair of me to lump all of the support characters into one slot, but the problem is that I see four choices which feel the same, they all serve a support roll and even do it similarly (some power to buff allies, some power to nerf/damage enemies, slow, resilient, decent melee damage), if anything the setup makes me feel like I need one of each rather than picking out whats best to support what I brought. All of it adds up to a situation where each army feels extremely similar to each other army, on top of the models' visual similarity, creating for me the impression of a big bland blob. If these things were consolidated into less warscrolls than each of those would be more distinct and it would make the army feel less same-ey even if no other changes were made. At least for me. Having seen the extremis releases roll out has just reinforced this picture in my mind rather than working to counter it like I hoped a new unit type would.

 angelofvengeance wrote:

Davor wrote:
Just when I am about to get into Age of Sigmar, GW brings out more Sigmarines, and I don't want to get in so much as I did last month.

Not sure what it is, but I am finding Sigmarines to be a big turn off in AoS. Every time I see a Sigmarine, I just want to buy some Privateer Press or something else.

I really find Sigmarines, boring, bland, dull and no character at all.

*sigh* Yes. We all get that some people don't like Stormcasts. But there's plenty of other models to choose from that I'm sure you'll find more interesting than them. In the meantime, can we change the record and move on, please?

I actually made this comment to be constructive. If anything I have started buying Fantasy products. My money was going to GW end of last year and beginning of this year. Now it has stopped again. This is not a complaint but to show GW why my money is not going there. Will it work? I doubt it, but just trying to give some constructive criticism, not complaining or whining.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

Davor wrote:
I really find Sigmairnes, boring, bland, dull and no character at all.

This small comment was insightful for me in a certain way, in that I have a dual-view of the Stormcast. With most armies I see the army and the fluff as part of a greater whole. For instance, I read a novel talking about what a mutalith does to people and that sticks with me when I see the model, giving it character beyond the (sub-par) sculpt. Vice versa, when the same novel describes an advancing horde of chaos my minds eye can envision those ranks of different warriors in a way that I couldn't do if I hadn't seen the models on the table. Yet for Stormcast there is a disconnect. The fluff (and particularly novels) do a great job of giving them character compared to the overall blandness of the models, to the point where they seem like separate entities. The different models of the army are all so similar that they just blend together into a vaguely armor-shaped blob of gold as compared to armies like warriors of chaos which have a singular style to them yet still have distinct identities within that. And I think it comes down to GW stretching multiple weapon options into multiple units to create a false-diversity that isn't really there. This recent release of a battletome with six different unit entries is really just different loadouts for two unit entries; dracoth cavalry and a star drake. The rest of the army is similar, in my head it's really just these units being stretched out to try and fill up more space;

-Liberators
-Judicators
-Paladins
-Prosectors
-Dracoth Knights

-Character with support ability (Relictor, Castellent, Vexillor, Heraldor)
-Flying Character
-Lord Celestent
-Lord Celestent on Dracoth
-Dragon Character
-Celetant Prime

I didn't even include Gryph-Hounds since I don't ever see them on the table (nor would consider them) anyway, on top of conversion/counts-as basically being a requirement to run more than one. But with the hounds included, that makes for 11 units, which in reality are spread across 23 warscrolls. It may be unfair of me to lump all of the support characters into one slot, but the problem is that I see four choices which feel the same, they all serve a support roll and even do it similarly (some power to buff allies, some power to nerf/damage enemies, slow, resilient, decent melee damage), if anything the setup makes me feel like I need one of each rather than picking out whats best to support what I brought. All of it adds up to a situation where each army feels extremely similar to each other army, on top of the models' visual similarity, creating for me the impression of a big bland blob. If these things were consolidated into less warscrolls than each of those would be more distinct and it would make the army feel less same-ey even if no other changes were made. At least for me. Having seen the extremis releases roll out has just reinforced this picture in my mind rather than working to counter it like I hoped a new unit type would.

Very well said. I wish I new how to write like you.

OgreChubbs wrote:
Am I seriously the only one upset the dragon snapped his leg walking over the rocks that follow GW models? It is bending backwards. Front right wrist is broken the dragon looks like he is screaming in pain. And everyone is worried about the leant forward wings?


GW needs to look at some lizards they do not bend their freakishly long wrist they swing their arms outwords due to their shoulder placement unlike mamals that swing them back and forward.

I don't see it backwards at all.

The celestant on dracoth missing the shield bonus was indeed a mistake in the print version and it's been updated now:

Warhammer Age of Sigmar
9 mins ·
The case of the missing Thundershield…
A few of you got in touch over the last few days to ask about the option to equip a Lord Celestant on Dracoth with a Thundershield.
This rule was missing from his original Warscroll, but fear not — we've just updated it online, and in the app.

Edit: Also confirmed legacy scrolls are not going away from the app or site.

I actually want to try my hand at making Stormcast more sinister, with lots of black and very dark metals. Almost like Black Legion or Iron Warriors in 40k.

More of a "you will pledge your undying allegiance to Sigmar, or we will write you off as lost and move on" feeling. Really play up the fact that most of them might not feel particular empathy for humans or other races anymore in the face of fighting what they were made to fight.

Not sure if I ever want to spend a car payment on an Archaon or Star Drake, though. I do like the cavalry though. It's a possible splurge to have two differently posed and equipped models versus the stock pose of the Starter Set version.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I actually want to try my hand at making Stormcast more sinister, with lots of black and very dark metals. Almost like Black Legion or Iron Warriors in 40k.

More of a "you will pledge your undying allegiance to Sigmar, or we will write you off as lost and move on" feeling. Really play up the fact that most of them might not feel particular empathy for humans or other races anymore in the face of fighting what they were made to fight.

That would be cool. Playing them up with that sometimes-used Space Marine concept of compassionless conquerors loyal only to their own cause would make them actually interesting.

 insaniak wrote:

 nels1031 wrote:
I believe he's referring to the 2 large stud bolts that hold the 3 pieces together. Its conceivable that they hinge at that point.

Pivoting at those points wouldn't allow the wing to extend, because the fitted cap over the actual joint would hold it in place.

We don't know what parts are actually attached to the creature, so we have to assume. Since we're assuming, and since there are definitely ways for it to attach that would allow it to hinge there, we can give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that it functions that way. I'm all for pointing out GW's stupidity, but for once, it looks like the designer actually made an effort to make the armour work. Not that the armour itself actually makes much sense, as it's wearing so little (what are those wing-caps meant to achieve?). If it had a full suit more akin to a warhorse, it could have been very cool.

EDIT: "Thundershield"? Totally unrelated to storm shields, just like "boltstorm crossbow" is totally unrelated to the storm bolter. They aren't even trying to make them not Marines.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I actually want to try my hand at making Stormcast more sinister, with lots of black and very dark metals. Almost like Black Legion or Iron Warriors in 40k.

More of a "you will pledge your undying allegiance to Sigmar, or we will write you off as lost and move on" feeling. Really play up the fact that most of them might not feel particular empathy for humans or other races anymore in the face of fighting what they were made to fight.

Not sure if I ever want to spend a car payment on an Archaon or Star Drake, though. I do like the cavalry though. It's a possible splurge to have two differently posed and equipped models versus the stock pose of the Starter Set version.

Yeah, I just finished a Lord Relictor in a dark color scheme and he turned out pretty great, imo. Dark color schemes work quite well for the Stormcast.

~Tim?

Well there is plenty of scope in the background for Stormcasts with that sort of outlook. A quick flick through the(non extreme) Stormcast battle tome has...
The Hallowed Knights. Who are described as "zealously faithful" and on a "holy crusade".
The Celestial vindicators are "as unforgiving as they are unrelenting", and all asked Sigmar to help them get vengeance.
The Astral Templars are described as being merciless and using extreme methods.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I actually want to try my hand at making Stormcast more sinister, with lots of black and very dark metals. Almost like Black Legion or Iron Warriors in 40k.

So basically Chaos Sigmarines then

I'm with the people who say the Star Dragon looks odd. The design is where it falls down; as always with GW the production aspect of it is excellent but it's the way it's front limbs are posed and the impractical armour where it fails in my opinion. The right front leg resting on the stone just doesn't look right at all. It does seem, from looking at the sprues, that with a bit of green stuff it could be built without the armour and reposed a bit?

coldgaming wrote:

Old armies:

1: Settra's story thread was left fairly open in the end times, will we be seeing more of him in Age of Sigmar?"

Plastic releases of The Black Coach and Settra are the kits I'm mainly waiting for.
--

I don't see what people are saying about the dragon's leg. Dragons aren't reptiles, their anatomy is superior to other creatures-usually being the firstborn of creation/closer to perfection. In most settings they predate the other races, and consider the other races and creatures as food, or at best self-sufficient pets that adore them.
These drakes are closer to reptiles but still are dragon-kin. So I wouldn't expect they conform to standard reptilian anatomy. I'm not familiar with the dragons of Warhammer, but don't the true dragons hang with the elves(longer and more serpentine)?

As drakes, it makes sense they are bulky and not graceful flyers. Drakes are a step above wyverns, so a meeting in between the two in anatomy of the legs seems reasonable. More griffon than reptilian( like a wyvern), as they aren't true dragons.

I don't mind the celestials, but they are bland to paint.

JNC wrote:

As drakes, it makes sense they are bulky and not graceful flyers. Drakes are a step above wyverns, so a meeting in between the two in anatomy of the legs seems reasonable. More griffon than reptilian( like a wyvern), as they aren't true dragons.

With knees instead of elbows on the forelegs, it's closer to elephant than griffon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

We don't know what parts are actually attached to the creature, so we have to assume. Since we're assuming, and since there are definitely ways for it to attach that would allow it to hinge there, we can give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that it functions that way. I'm all for pointing out GW's stupidity, but for once, it looks like the designer actually made an effort to make the armour work..

I see very little about that armour that suggests that they considered how it would work.


It makes no difference if the side pieces are hinged, so long as there is a solid cap over the actual joint. The only way that hinges at those points would help is if the entire cap piece pops forwards off the wing when it extends.

Which would make sense if it's supposed to be some sort of projectile weapon, but really doesn't otherwise.

 Fayric wrote:

 VeteranNoob wrote:

But I do wonder if this latest SE aesthetic wil give us a new look for Tzeentch. The Guant Sorcerer I really like but more for my the Pan's Labrynth eyes, and the BL fiction match. But I miss the fluid flamers and screamers and hope whatever comes is less...angular, I suppose. Hope that makes sense

Well, khorne stuf for AoS dont look alot like bloodletters and such.
With tzeench they can really have fun and make flying "chaos warriors" or twisted units with ranged magic attacks.
I really hope the gaunt summoner is a representative look for the "new recruits".
However, "angular" tend to be a theme with AoS design.

Oooooooo good stuff
I questioned building my Magmadroth if I should use the set of horns which are exactly the blood letters horns but decided it was best. I look FWd to Tzeentch.

 insaniak wrote:

JNC wrote:

As drakes, it makes sense they are bulky and not graceful flyers. Drakes are a step above wyverns, so a meeting in between the two in anatomy of the legs seems reasonable. More griffon than reptilian( like a wyvern), as they aren't true dragons.

With knees instead of elbows on the forelegs, it's closer to elephant than griffon.

I was mainly refer to the feet. Yes, the stubby legs are odd. Or are the feet what make it odd?. As drakes they are supposed to be more brutishly forceful. But if the old Wyverns are taken into account, they never really looked capable of flight either-Or even pouncing. I'll concede there is an odd mixture to the anatomy, but in fantasy odd mixtures are common. At 120$ it's certainly questionable(unless I'm confusing the price, only quick glanced it).
As someone mentioned, the ecology aspect is weak. Everything exist to fight on a table.

I'm trying to figure it out is all I can say. Warhammer has always had these problems. People said the Chaos Lord on Manticore is a bad kit, but I love that reinterpretation. It looks like a chaotic beast from the Chaos Wastes. Mileage on a two-way interstate and stuff.
---
Also: to be clear, when I say I don't see it about the feet/legs, I'm not arguing against what others see, I just don't see it.

Davor wrote:
Just when I am about to get into Age of Sigmar, GW brings out more Sigmarines, and I don't want to get in so much as I did last month.

Not sure what it is, but I am finding Sigmarines to be a big turn off in AoS. Everytime I see a Sigmarine, I just want to buy some Privateer Press or something else.

I really find Sigmairnes, boring, bland, dull and no character at all.

I think this is pretty much as close as an universal feeling as you can get.

JNC wrote:
Also: to be clear, when I say I don't see it about the feet/legs, I'm not arguing against what others see, I just don't see it.

 streetsamurai wrote:

Davor wrote:
Just when I am about to get into Age of Sigmar, GW brings out more Sigmarines, and I don't want to get in so much as I did last month.

Not sure what it is, but I am finding Sigmarines to be a big turn off in AoS. Everytime I see a Sigmarine, I just want to buy some Privateer Press or something else.

I really find Sigmairnes, boring, bland, dull and no character at all.

I think this is pretty much as close as an universal feeling as you can get.

Can't do much about the models but if it's the fluff, and I understand, maybe you might enjoy the explanation of Sigmarines on the author blogs from Josh Reynolds and Gav Thorpe. You can just google their pages. Worth a shot, nice quick reads, both of them.

Really frustrating they put the price of the Stardrake to the same one than Archaon's. I don't feel the miniature is big enough to justify it.

I mean, it's not that big. Oh well, guess I will not take three of those like they're advertising on the webstore for the formation.

 Lt. Donomar StubbornBull wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I actually want to try my hand at making Stormcast more sinister, with lots of black and very dark metals. Almost like Black Legion or Iron Warriors in 40k.

So basically Chaos Sigmarines then

I'm with the people who say the Star Dragon looks odd. The design is where it falls down; as always with GW the production aspect of it is excellent but it's the way it's front limbs are posed and the impractical armour where it fails in my opinion. The right front leg resting on the stone just doesn't look right at all. It does seem, from looking at the sprues, that with a bit of green stuff it could be built without the armour and reposed a bit?

More like the most grimdark portions of Space Marine fluff, where they are unquestionably good guys, but only to those who deserve saving. All else is a hindrance to the cause they are set on.

So in my bit of headcannon the normal person seeing a Stormcast force has to wonder: "do I run to them for salvation, knowing that if my village is being attacked but is not deemed by them to be part of their battle-goal, they might brush us off?"

So you'd have this culture where people desperately try to gain the Stormcast's good graces, knowing that even if they do, they will regarded as children to be waved into the background or even simply just a resource to be protected by these giant heroes who aren't really even people anymore, but living weapons. Grimdark-style unreturned hero worship.

(Unfortunately this only works well if they were in a place more like the Old Worls, where actual normal people exist to worship them.)

 AegisGrimm wrote:

(Unfortunately this only works well if they were in a place more like the Old Worls, where actual normal people exist to worship them.)

Read the Fyreslayers book. There's a bit in there about a tribe of people living in the Realm of Death that pay a Fyreslayer clan to rid them of a Vampiress.

There most definitely are "normal people" still around in the Realms. Hell, that's what the Bloodreavers are--"normal people" turned cannibals.

 Sarouan wrote:
Really frustrating they put the price of the Stardrake to the same one than Archaon's. I don't feel the miniature is big enough to justify it.

I mean, it's not that big. Oh well, guess I will not take three of those like they're advertising on the webstore for the formation.

Weird, it's £15 cheaper here.

Archaon was $165. The stardrake is cheaper.

I always thought if you painted the Sigmarines in a bone colored porcelain looking armor with small veins and cracks in it and blood lightly weeping from their eyes sockets and joints they would look very aggressive and dark. Sort of like little creepy china dolls on roids.

To me their builds suit more of a construct then a dude wearing armor, thats probably why I get bored with each of their releases since their armored look just seems super boring and overdone. A paintjob can make a massive difference in any products reception after all. Sort of like the wulfen, they aren't actually that bad but the stupid pink flesh and powder blue ruins them, give them heavily weathered armor and dark, dark skin and fur and they suddenly aren't so lame.

auticus wrote:
Archaon was $165. The stardrake is cheaper.

Not by much.

Archaon, at 165, was something I could justify. Gorgeous model that was to be a centerpiece for a force.

Stardrakes? They're not something I would consider as a centerpiece. They're like Imperial Knights or Morka/Gorkanauts: Something you could potentially see a large number of fielded at once but for the price of the model.

 Red Corsair wrote:
I always thought if you painted the Sigmarines in a bone colored porcelain looking armor with small veins and cracks in it and blood lightly weeping from their eyes sockets and joints they would look very aggressive and dark. Sort of like little creepy china dolls on roids.

To me their builds suit more of a construct then a dude wearing armor, thats probably why I get bored with each of their releases since their armored look just seems super boring and overdone. A paintjob can make a massive difference in any products reception after all. Sort of like the wulfen, they aren't actually that bad but the stupid pink flesh and powder blue ruins them, give them heavily weathered armor and dark, dark skin and fur and they suddenly aren't so lame.

These aren't mine, but I saw them on Facebook; someone painted theirs with white face masks and I think they look quite creepy, like those blank theatre masks (never liked them things):

Very nice. They definitely look more like a Construct type, which suits them better. I actually think it would have been awesome if the SE were an evil faction with the models they have.

 Red Corsair wrote:
I always thought if you painted the Sigmarines in a bone colored porcelain looking armor with small veins and cracks in it and blood lightly weeping from their eyes sockets and joints they would look very aggressive and dark. Sort of like little creepy china dolls on roids.

To me their builds suit more of a construct then a dude wearing armor, thats probably why I get bored with each of their releases since their armored look just seems super boring and overdone. A paintjob can make a massive difference in any products reception after all. Sort of like the wulfen, they aren't actually that bad but the stupid pink flesh and powder blue ruins them, give them heavily weathered armor and dark, dark skin and fur and they suddenly aren't so lame.

Bruticus did it:

 VeteranNoob wrote:

 Fayric wrote:

 VeteranNoob wrote:

But I do wonder if this latest SE aesthetic wil give us a new look for Tzeentch. The Guant Sorcerer I really like but more for my the Pan's Labrynth eyes, and the BL fiction match. But I miss the fluid flamers and screamers and hope whatever comes is less...angular, I suppose. Hope that makes sense

Well, khorne stuf for AoS dont look alot like bloodletters and such.
With tzeench they can really have fun and make flying "chaos warriors" or twisted units with ranged magic attacks.
I really hope the gaunt summoner is a representative look for the "new recruits".
However, "angular" tend to be a theme with AoS design.

Oooooooo good stuff
I questioned building my Magmadroth if I should use the set of horns which are exactly the blood letters horns but decided it was best. I look FWd to Tzeentch.

I still have a pet theory that the reason the Forsaken were retired is that the 'elite' Tzeentch warriors - so on the scale of Blightkings and Skullreapers - will be a mass of armoured mutations.

I've seen (but can't find) the sigmarites done as terracotta warriors as well which also looks really good (and inhuman)

where the fudgesicle are the leaks of new khorne this week!!!

I'm doing mine in boney colored armor, and some gold too just because

 Kanluwen wrote:


Archaon, at 165, was something I could justify. Gorgeous model that was to be a centerpiece for a force.

Stardrakes? They're not something I would consider as a centerpiece. They're like Imperial Knights or Morka/Gorkanauts: Something you could potentially see a large number of fielded at once but for the price of the model.

While I think a Stardrake can be a fitting centerpiece for a Stormcast Eternal army, I totally agree with the rest of your post.

It's not a special character, you can take several of them if you want. And yet, the price is set like it was a true titan...but on the pictures, that's not what it is. It's just a big dragon on his all four. It's not resin forgeworld as well.

Monsters in AoS seem to have quite high prices (I'm talking about the new ones, not the repackaging). Trouble is...the size doesn't really justify it. It's 120€ by here, that means it's the price of nearly two starter armies.

But well, that's GW so it's not really surprising. Still, it's frustrating because I know plenty of people will refrain from taking more than one because of the price. On the Webstore, three are sold at 360€. Just three monsters for the price of a true army at 40k. And I'm already struggling to try to justify my own purchase of just one Stardrake.

GW is clearly seeing Stormcast as Space Marines, and think that plenty of fanboyz will run to buy them en masse. Yeah, well, they're not Space Marines, it's really not the same feeling. Too bad for the Stardrake, price is set and now they can't go back on it.

It is amazing that GW has managed to convince people that a huge $140 dragon or an Imperial Knight don't qualify as centerpieces of your army, but are something you should field "a large number" of.

Albino Squirrel wrote:
It is amazing that GW has managed to convince people that a huge $140 dragon or an Imperial Knight don't qualify as centerpieces of your army, but are something you should field "a large number" of.

Kanluwen wrote:Something you could potentially see a large number of fielded at once

Nobody has said "should" except for you.

And quite frankly? Things lose their value as a centerpiece when you have multiples. An Imperial Knight fielded in an Oathsworn Detachment as an Ally for an Imperial force? That's a centerpiece!

An Imperial Knight fielded as part of a Household Detachment, where you have at least 3 Knights, possibly 5? It loses its "wow!" factor.

Drakesworn Templars, being 'minor' heroes effectively, suffer from the same dilemma as the Caledor Dragon Mages in the old High Elf book: They're minor heroes mounted upon an impressive mount, but you can take a moderately high number of them devaluing the model as a centerpiece.

 malfred wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

 malfred wrote:

I get that they wanted the Space Marines to ride dragons that

was the [MOD] accidentally applied to your name?

Was the judge title accidentally applied to your username?

No, that was an intentional part of my username that carries no weight or significance. However, the [MOD] - assuming it means you are a moderator - implies a sense of impartiality instead of flame-bait trolling. Don't worry thought, as I reported your post as flame-bait initially, as MODs are not immune to Dakka's rules. Plus there's no way you could be following AoS N&R threads and think that Stormcast Eternals are space marines unless you were specifically trolling.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 insaniak wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

Submission for Worst Miniatures Ever Made By Mankind

Spoiler:

They're certainly silly looking, and I like exaggeration as much as the next fifteen billion people... But those are not even close to being the worst miniatures ever made by the company that brought us the original Lemartes, or Nagash, let alone the worst ever made by anyone.


Meanwhile, I believe the discussion at hand is actually about interdimensional star dragons, not GWs sculpting track record.

My original comment was that
Man, those sprues are sweet. Once again incredibly apparent that GW has their top tier sculptors working exclusively on AoS while 40k has been handed off to the unpaid interns.

But congrats on selectively editing that The Wulfen Murderpack and the last year worth of 40k releases have been consistently the worst ever produced by the company, while Age of Sigmar's have been their best.
My assertion still stands.

 Kanluwen wrote:


Drakesworn Templars, being 'minor' heroes effectively, suffer from the same dilemma as the Caledor Dragon Mages in the old High Elf book: They're minor heroes mounted upon an impressive mount, but you can take a moderately high number of them devaluing the model as a centerpiece.

Seriously? What size games were you playing?

At 2,000 points, it was always a squeeze just getting one of those dudes in, because you wanted a level 2 Mage on foot as well to give a decent spread of Lores (both backing up your level 4 Archmage, natch), and while the End Times point spreads helped, all you were really doing was depriving your force of the stuff you really needed - the Archers, the Swordmasters, the Bolt Throwers...

I don't think I ever fielded more than one dragon in a High Elf force, and we took things to 3,000-odd points often enough.

It is possible I don't play these games in the same way as other people

MongooseMatt wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:


Drakesworn Templars, being 'minor' heroes effectively, suffer from the same dilemma as the Caledor Dragon Mages in the old High Elf book: They're minor heroes mounted upon an impressive mount, but you can take a moderately high number of them devaluing the model as a centerpiece.

Seriously? What size games were you playing?

At 2,000 points, it was always a squeeze just getting one of those dudes in, because you wanted a level 2 Mage on foot as well to give a decent spread of Lores (both backing up your level 4 Archmage, natch), and while the End Times point spreads helped, all you were really doing was depriving your force of the stuff you really needed - the Archers, the Swordmasters, the Bolt Throwers...

I don't think I ever fielded more than one dragon in a High Elf force, and we took things to 3,000-odd points often enough.

It is possible I don't play these games in the same way as other people

I never said that the people who fielded those were sensical! Don't you go accusing me of that crap, MongooseMatt!

In all seriousness, I know of one person who fielded as many of them as he could get away with. He liked Dragons, so he fielded Dragon Mages.

I saw these models

Altough the pose of the Exalted Deathbringer is kinda strange, I like all three of them from the first look.

Edit: prices look like 23€ for each?

Oh, new Khorne ... so exciting!

Khorne, Khorne, Nurgle, Khorne, Nurgle, Nurgle, Khorne... blah.

 insaniak wrote:

It makes no difference if the side pieces are hinged, so long as there is a solid cap over the actual joint. The only way that hinges at those points would help is if the entire cap piece pops forwards off the wing when it extends.

Which would make sense if it's supposed to be some sort of projectile weapon, but really doesn't otherwise.

Only if the centre piece is actually attached to the wing, which it shouldn't be. Assuming it isn't, that means the two sides are attached while the middle piece is meant to move up and down with them. It's a bit complex for such a negligible amount of armour, which is what makes it silly. Maybe it is a projectile weapon, then; this is Age of Sigmar, and such ludicrous concepts wouldn't be out of place. The Lord-Celestant shoots hammers by swishing his cloak at people, after all.

EDIT: "Groan" at yet more Khorne, but at least these ones don't look completely stupid and don't have ridiculous names like "Bloodstoker" or "Bloodsecrator".

horuslupercal1988 wrote:
I saw these models

Yes, yes, and thrice yes. Anyone building a sizeable Bloodbound horde has been wanting variations among the Gorechosen - after all, you might well have two Slaughterpriests in the same force, but you want them looking different...

This will save some conversion work that I was not entirely certain how to proceed with.

Liking this.

I have to admit, some of the new pictures do look better than that original one. The different color scheme helps, and seeing it from different angles allows me to identify aspects of the model that I actually like (head, tail, hind legs). It does change the fact that I don't like the front legs, armor or wings. It just makes me sad that this model could have been so much better than it is.

Albino Squirrel wrote:
It is amazing that GW has managed to convince people that a huge $140 dragon or an Imperial Knight don't qualify as centerpieces of your army, but are something you should field "a large number" of.

They might wish they could do that, but I don't think GW is actually convincing anyone to field a whole unit of figures that cost $140 each.

I don't see any big tickets items this week.

I do see some nice looking Khorne guys though.

Slaughterpriest is probably my favorite. Interesting he has a head swap included too.

They look amazing!

I'll probably get all three of them... but I can't stop from feeling a little disappointed that's all we're getting after what the SE just had. Do we know the hint for the next WD? More Khorne or are we done and going to Orruks?

It seems on first glance that other than the Khorne head guy, the other two don't seem particularly Khorne- focused. You might be able to get away with using them for a different God... at least from a quick once over on all of them.

 judgedoug wrote:

 malfred wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

 malfred wrote:

I get that they wanted the Space Marines to ride dragons that

was the [MOD] accidentally applied to your name?

Was the judge title accidentally applied to your username?

No, that was an intentional part of my username that carries no weight or significance. However, the [MOD] - assuming it means you are a moderator - implies a sense of impartiality instead of flame-bait trolling. Don't worry thought, as I reported your post as flame-bait initially, as MODs are not immune to Dakka's rules. Plus there's no way you could be following AoS N&R threads and think that Stormcast Eternals are space marines unless you were specifically trolling.

I was not aware that it was against the rules to express dislike for Stormcast Eternals or to voice the widely-held belief that they are obvious Space Marine analogs. I like the Tzeentch disc guy and am looking forward to see what releases are forthcoming for Tzeentch (for use in 40k - I'm not a fan of what they did to the setting) but I think that every single Stormcast release so far has been hot garbage. Am I allowed to post here or is it considered trolling?

Keeping at the $30 price point, so they better be the same size as my Fyreslayers I don't expect that. But does anyone know if these are three diff kits or one one makes all three or the two deathbringers?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@ Abadabadoobaddon is my new favorite forum name.

Interesting and promising news from the FB page :

Hey, guys (and gals). We’ve been here almost a week now, and it’s been great fun. We’ve especially enjoyed seeing pictures of your miniatures and generally soaking up your enthusiasm for all things Age of Sigmar.
Among all the threads, one question has cropped up a lot:
FAQs - when will they be updated?
You guys are right, the FAQs need updated and soon. In fact, you made so many good points we thought we might tackle this one together.
What rules question do you want clearing up? That’s right, just one question each (though feel free to ask your mum, brother or dog to submit another question on your behalf). Write your question as a comment below and we’ll go harangue the rules guys into writing an answer. Once we’ve got their answers, we’ll post them back here for you to download. This might take us a couple of weeks but we’ll keep you updated on any progress. In the meantime, you can settle any disputes in the time-honoured tradition of Rock, Paper, Sigmarite-steel.

Slaughter priest is awesome.

Good to see GW interacting and using FB.

 VeteranNoob wrote:
Keeping at the $30 price point, so they better be the same size as my Fyreslayers I don't expect that. But does anyone know if these are three diff kits or one one makes all three or the two deathbringers?

Three different kits.

If it were all one kit, they wouldn't show the price three different times.

I like all three but the Aspiring Deathbringer looks a tad too much like the Blood Warriors. The new Slaughterpriest makes up for that, love that look!

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
that they are obvious Space Marine analogs

only to the desperate.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
All three of those new Khorne models are great.

They are not super over the top but still full of khorne delightfulness.

Once again incredibly apparent that GW has their top tier sculptors working exclusively on AoS while 40k has been handed off to the unpaid interns.

I really like these Khorne models. I wonder if I could use them for 30k World Eaters conversions (obviously on the path of corruption - probably siege of terra).

Those three models all look great, obviously sculpted by the same guy who did the amazing Slaughterpriest.

 judgedoug wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
that they are obvious Space Marine analogs

only to the desperate.

I think you have to concede that whilst there are a number of differences to Space Marines that detractors tend to ignore/remain unaware of, the basic principles of both are the same.
In Gav Thorpe's blog on his AoS book, he even said that the idea of introducing the Space Marine trope into WFB dates back to his time in the studio.
I'd agree with you though that SE are portrayed by many as far less complex though.

skarsol wrote:
Khorne, Khorne, Nurgle, Khorne, Nurgle, Nurgle, Khorne... blah.

Don't worry! All of the other armies are coming! Not just two armies, but five! And they're gonna be huge! You won't believe it!


But yes, this Sigmarine/Nurgle/Khorne/something else pattern is getting tiresome.

Sorry, but the last time Nurgle had something was End Times.

 VeteranNoob wrote:
I still have a pet theory that the reason the Forsaken were retired is that the 'elite' Tzeentch warriors - so on the scale of Blightkings and Skullreapers - will be a mass of armoured mutations.

All the yes with a pretty please.

 angelofvengeance wrote:
Sorry, but the last time Nurgle had something was End Times.

Then that's even worse as there's even less variance in the releases.

 judgedoug wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
that they are obvious Space Marine analogs

only to the desperate.

The desperate? What does that even mean? I see now that for some reason you apparently take exception whenever someone points out that Sigmarines are awful awful space marine wannabes who are just awful, so let's just agree to disagree, taste being subjective and all, and leave it at that.

Back on topic, those Khorne guys sure do have a lot of muscles. Just like the last batch. I'm really looking forward to seeing some Chaos other than Khorne. With less muscles perhaps? I would enjoy that quite a bit.

 NAVARRO wrote:

Good to see GW interacting and using FB.

+1

Friendly Reminder from Moderation Team: "+1" style posts violate Rule Number Three, which is No Spam. Thanks!

RoperPG wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
that they are obvious Space Marine analogs

only to the desperate.

I think you have to concede that whilst there are a number of differences to Space Marines that detractors tend to ignore/remain unaware of, the basic principles of both are the same.
In Gav Thorpe's blog on his AoS book, he even said that the idea of introducing the Space Marine trope into WFB dates back to his time in the studio.
I'd agree with you though that SE are portrayed by many as far less complex though.

You'd have to be blind to not see the similitudes between stormcast and marines. Are they exactly similar. No, But they are obviously inspired by them, in fluff and in appearance (the "first smiting" thing was the straw that broke the camel back for me.

As for the Khorne guys. I really like the exalted deathbIringer, and to a lesser extent the priest.. But, as other have said, I can't help but have a deja-vu feeling

Chambers are totally not Chapters. Especially when their names could all be names of Chapters. And being rebuilt into a giant warrior by a Supreme Being is totally only...hmm....

I still have to say I am more interested in each Stormcast release than the all-Khorne chaos show.

So it seems the new Battletome order has 21 factions in it, including 10 Aelves ones.
What faction means is more in the style of the undead small factions with for exemple the Blood Cult for DE, The Phoenix Temple for HE, The Cult of Sigmar for Empire, etc, with multiple factions for what used to a single race. We will also have mixed race factions, like The Ironweld Arsenal which is human and dwarven artillery units mixed.
There also seems to be new formations specific to the grand alliance and which mix troops from different factions.

28 euros, 20 pounds, 35 dollars and 56 Australian dollars, or the foreskin of your first son.

Ehh... Not too fussed about these Khorne dudes, kinda prefer the current ones. Mabye except for the priest, cos his current model just looks too lanky.

Anyway, apologies for diverting the conversation to the nicknames
and inspirations for the models. My comment was basically about
the build of the Celestials and how they sit upon the Star Drakes.
Star Drakes need to be big, sure, but their scale seems off when you
see the dude sitting on it. It's like you don't want to see an armored
guy sitting on a skinny bike necessarily, but you don't also want
them all to ride ATVs. There's a middle ground that looks cool, and
I don't think the Star Drake is it.

 Haechi wrote:
So it seems the new Battletome order has 21 factions in it, including 10 Aelves ones.
What faction means is more in the style of the undead small factions with for exemple the Blood Cult for DE, The Phoenix Temple for HE, The Cult of Sigmar for Empire, etc, with multiple factions for what used to a single race. We will also have mixed race factions, like The Ironweld Arsenal which is human and dwarven artillery units mixed.
There also seems to be new formations specific to the grand alliance and which mix troops from different factions.

28 euros, 20 pounds, 35 dollars and 56 Australian dollars, or the foreskin of your first son.

Where are you getting this? Can't find anything on FB, they're usually the first to know... Need more info and pics!!

 Haechi wrote:
So it seems the new Battletome order has 21 factions in it, including 10 Aelves ones.
What faction means is more in the style of the undead small factions with for exemple the Blood Cult for DE, The Phoenix Temple for HE, The Cult of Sigmar for Empire, etc, with multiple factions for what used to a single race. We will also have mixed race factions, like The Ironweld Arsenal which is human and dwarven artillery units mixed.
There also seems to be new formations specific to the grand alliance and which mix troops from different factions.

28 euros, 20 pounds, 35 dollars and 56 Australian dollars, or the foreskin of your first son.

Haechi, how do you know all this? French forums in the know?

Anyway - sounds like an instabuy!

Seeing more pictures of the drake, I think it is actually much cooler than I originally thought. However, if I pay that much for a model I don't expect to have to do any GS work on it to cover up stupid looking armour plates and so on. A shame, because the scales and so on are superb.

More outscaled Khorne dudes is not interesting, especially not for that price per dude. Ah well! Still keeping my eye on this to see if anything particularly cool comes out of it, but even though quite a lot of the stuff is nice enough, price or some critical flaw has kept me from making any purchases so far.

FWIW (the sum total of feth all), Stormcast look pretty space mariney to me, and I'll say that whenever I like, cheers.

Interesting to see, saw this posted too:

"Including:
10 factions for the Aelves
Duardin
Free Peoples (former Empire)
Ironweld Arsenal
Battlemages

regards,
Lady Atia
Trad :


page 1
In the order grand alliance, fyreslayer, old dwarfes with warmachines.
Billions of men and women descendant of the old world resident.
Finally the mysterious aelves - very few but with a lot of magical knowledge and Monster they have learned to tame.

page2
You already know about sylvaneth and stormcast, seraphon and fireslayer the book have all the warscroll plus a selection of formations.
But that is only the tip of the iceberg 280 - pages covering 16 old factions from : Devoted (fantatics), free people milicia, Battlemage, 10 aelves faction, Darkling covens, phoenix temple. Even if the elves are in order alliance they follow mysterious ways and are an autonomous force. And the Ironweld arsenal - human canons and duardin steamtanks ...."

coldgaming wrote:
And the Ironweld arsenal - human canons and duardin steamtanks ...."

Ermm.... I've played Dwarfs for a couple of years now and... something... doesn't seem quite right here...

Although I wouldn't mind sticking half a dwarf handgunner on a hatch of the Empire Steamtank and calling it my own.

YASSSSS

the most exciting release of AoS so far

Honestly I'm mainly excited to see which model ranges are staying!

RoperPG wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
that they are obvious Space Marine analogs

only to the desperate.

In Gav Thorpe's blog on his AoS book, he even said that the idea of introducing the Space Marine trope into WFB dates back to his time in the studio.

Yet more evidence that Thorpe should have stuck to writing rules and left the background/novel writing to people with some actual talent.

 Yodhrin wrote:

RoperPG wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
that they are obvious Space Marine analogs

only to the desperate.

In Gav Thorpe's blog on his AoS book, he even said that the idea of introducing the Space Marine trope into WFB dates back to his time in the studio.

Yet more evidence that Thorpe should have stuck to writing rules and left the background/novel writing to people with some actual talent.

It doesn't say it was his idea.

I'm alright with Dwarf steam tanks.

Always thought it was a better fit for them than the humans anyways.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
I'm alright with Dwarf steam tanks.

Always thought it was a better fit for them than the humans anyways.

My French is non-existent but doesn't it say the Steam tanks and Organ guns of the humans and the Gyrobombers of the Duardin?

I'm going to guess what it says based on similar English words lmao

"The premier faction that transcends racial limits, it's the Ironweld Arsenal! With the marvellous technology of the humans cometh the steam tanks and the Organ Guns and also the Gyrobombers of the Duardin fashioned from old batteries and escalators and machines making them grrrrrr invincible!"

this release seems a bit pointless, if you must do Khorne surely something like flesh hounds would sell far more?
or at least do things from the starter set that dont have individual models (though they may be coming too)

The hint for next week is 'the realmgate wars continue in beastly fashion'. Seems like it is Orruks next week. I am a bit confused about this. The Orruk release is rumoured to be quite large, but the info about the space marine event is coming in two weeks. Will we be getting new Orruks released on the celebration week?

Of course it's duardin steam flyer engine things, not tanks - little translation error from french > english ^.^

 judgedoug wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
that they are obvious Space Marine analogs

only to the desperate.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
All three of those new Khorne models are great.

They are not super over the top but still full of khorne delightfulness.

Once again incredibly apparent that GW has their top tier sculptors working exclusively on AoS while 40k has been handed off to the unpaid interns.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. Other than the Space Werewolves, the 40k releases are far superior. The AOS stuff continues with it's awful aesthetic. I have yet to see a single AOS model that make me think: " I MUST have that!".
As for them not being Space Marines in fantasy: Are you seriously denying that? Normally I agree with most of your posts but I think you're off on this one. Oh well. To each, their own I suppose...

Flagellants!!! YES!!! Nice to see they're staying.

Truth be told, since the End Times I've been keeping a reserve of funds for WHFB stuff I'd always wanted to get for 40k conversion fodder, holding back waiting to see how the chips fall. Last Chance to Buy or repackage with price decrease?

Of course it then becomes a question of whether to buy the repackaged sets or continue to build up the reserve for others that inevitably end up on the chopping block. Part of the calculus comes down to how long of a reprieve will AoS buy for those sets that remain. Gotta use strategery...

 Yodhrin wrote:

RoperPG wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
that they are obvious Space Marine analogs

only to the desperate.

In Gav Thorpe's blog on his AoS book, he even said that the idea of introducing the Space Marine trope into WFB dates back to his time in the studio.

Yet more evidence that Thorpe should have stuck to writing rules and left the background/novel writing to people with some actual talent.

Gav Thorpe leaving can actually be pointed to as the moment when the fluff went off the deep end.

About the old armies that will be in the Grand Order, I wonder if it means they won't receive new models and if those that aren't in there are going to the chopping block. Wood Elves for example.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also wouldn't the hint be about Beastmen rather than Orruks? I know we haven't heard rumors about that but the choice of words seems strange.

 Haechi wrote:

Also wouldn't the hint be about Beastmen rather than Orruks? .

I can't imagine that AoS would have something as mundane as 'Beastmen'... Surely you mean 'Moonbayer Crushknobblers'.

 Haechi wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also wouldn't the hint be about Beastmen rather than Orruks? I know we haven't heard rumors about that but the choice of words seems strange.

The Orruks live in the realm of beasts. We have been to fire, life and metal so far(plus a little time in death). Beasts is next. After this there is only shadow and light left where we will presumably meet Aelves and Humans.

Loving the grand alliance book the more I hear about it!

@Stormcast=Space marine, that's without a doubt what they're expies of. Is that bad? Certainly not!

I see them as Space marines put in a blender with Dark souls, mixed with God of War sauce and given a dash of He-man. What's not to like? (Stormcast> Space marines btw)

@Gav Thorpe discussion, it certainly goes back a long way to when it was hinted that the two franchises were in the same universe. One white dwarf even had a small story of an assualt squad slaughtering a beastmen herd.

Also, I saw John Blanche artwork of the Stormcast that showed they were previously going to be in the old world.

@Haechi, I think the wood elves are pretty safe as they were a recent release prior to the End Times and wanderers are talked about(scantly) in the fluff where as Tomb kings and Bretonnians were not. (they may return someday in a new form, though)

I've seen alot of rumors of upcoming Orruk and Ogor related novels so that could be a indication.

Baron Klatz wrote:
... it certainly goes back a long way to when it was hinted that the two franchises were in the same universe. One white dwarf even had a small story of an assualt squad slaughtering a beastmen herd.

Beastmen were not unique to the WHFB setting. GW even made Imperial Guard Beastmen.

Indeed, Beastmen used to be an abhuman used in the Guard much like Ogryn or Ratlings.

The old Epic Guard sprues had Beastmen on them too.

Haha, that's true(and that's a awesome set) but the setting of that little side story did take place on the old world. (Might of been the Drakwald forest)

 Haechi wrote:
About the old armies that will be in the Grand Order, I wonder if it means they won't receive new models and if those that aren't in there are going to the chopping block. Wood Elves for example.

Are you saying woodelves would be chopped? Seeing as they just received many new items ...

 Uriels_Flame wrote:

 Haechi wrote:
About the old armies that will be in the Grand Order, I wonder if it means they won't receive new models and if those that aren't in there are going to the chopping block. Wood Elves for example.

Are you saying woodelves would be chopped? Seeing as they just received many new items ...

I fully expect that most special character kits will either be dropped (think older kits like Eltharion, Malekith, and the Valtens) or given generic names. I also wouldn't be surprised if they decided to pare down kits that are too similar (how many Aelf Spearmen units do they really need?).

From the age of sigmar Facebook page. 'the first clues to the appearance of a new type of Orruk are in the new audio drama' obviously it is a bit of salesmanship by the Gw mod but it confirms that the upcoming Orruk releases will feature 'new' Orruks.

 Uriels_Flame wrote:

 Haechi wrote:
About the old armies that will be in the Grand Order, I wonder if it means they won't receive new models and if those that aren't in there are going to the chopping block. Wood Elves for example.

Are you saying woodelves would be chopped? Seeing as they just received many new items ...

I'm saying I wouldn't be surprised if they were. I haven't seen all 10 Aelves factions from the Order GA book yet and that will be the deciding factor. Everything that will not be in it, is probably on the chopping blocks.

 Haechi wrote:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:

 Haechi wrote:
About the old armies that will be in the Grand Order, I wonder if it means they won't receive new models and if those that aren't in there are going to the chopping block. Wood Elves for example.

Are you saying woodelves would be chopped? Seeing as they just received many new items ...

I'm saying I wouldn't be surprised if they were. I haven't seen all 10 Aelves factions from the Order GA book yet and that will be the deciding factor. Everything that will not be in it, is probably on the chopping blocks.

I don't think wood elves are going anywhere. Sylvaneth again least definitely aren't as they've been in the story already.

No the Sylvaneth are here to stay for sure. But they're not associated with each other anymore. At all. Sylvaneth are their own faction now; the children of an HE queen made goddess. And without them, the WE only have a couple of new kits. They also have only one formation, and that doesn't look good.

I'm fairly certain they are the next ones being squatted after the Bretonnians.

I think all the factions will lose some models. Wardancers and warhawks for example. Brettonia will probably be the last faction to be axed completely.

There are mentions of structures built by an unknown source in Alarielle's hidden grove; the overall grove description went out of its way to mention them in a manner that lent it significance beyond what a short blurb normally would. Coupled with wood elves getting releases during a period where GW was (supposedly) working on Age of Sigmar I think that "Wanderers" will definitely be one of those 10 elf factions.

Well at some point during the Warden of the Everqueen novel, Alarielle herself builds one of those structures. Yet she clearly mentions her people are the Sylvaneth, and that's it.

When was that?

When she gives audience to the main SE dude, around the beginning.

Chad Warden wrote:
this release seems a bit pointless, if you must do Khorne surely something like flesh hounds would sell far more?
or at least do things from the starter set that dont have individual models (though they may be coming too)

Slaughterpriests were a big seller. One of the few AoS things to actually have gone "Temporarily Out of Stock". It makes sense that they and the Exalted Deathbringers would get another model, if only because those two units are mandatory in quite a few Bloodbound formations and it helps to have some "alternate" sculpts/profiles out there.

The only Aspiring Deathbringer right now is Finecast, so a plastic kit was inevitable.

Flesh Hounds I'm genuinely surprised we haven't seen released in plastic, but they're not a Bloodbound thing aside from as a 'weapon' for an Exalted Lord of Khorne. They're Daemon units; whenever we see Daemons get something done to them I wouldn't be shocked to see a plastic Flesh Hound kit show up.


Regarding Grand Alliance: Order...
Remember that this is following the pattern of Grand Alliance: Chaos. It consists of things we already have(Stormcast Eternals, Extremis, Sylvaneth being their own faction now, and likely Fyreslayers) PLUS Legacy stuff that isn't going away or is being renamed/split off from their main bit(Dark Elves getting Blood Cults, High Elves getting Phoenix Temple, etc).

I wonder if we will get a cross format demon release to coincide with Fenris part 2. It seems that the beasts and the remaining greater demons are the last things that need plastic, unless they start creating some new ones. Despite the change to a weekly format, there still seems to be one major release a month. Jan- fyreslayers, Feb- spacewolves, March- deathwatch, April Orruks etc. New demon plastics probably merit their own month.

 streetsamurai wrote:
You'd have to be blind to not see the similitudes between stormcast and marines. Are they exactly similar. No, But they are obviously inspired by them, in fluff and in appearance (the "first smiting" thing was the straw that broke the camel back for me.

I think we can agree in essence: Space Marines are super space sci fi knights in full plate armor, and Stormcast Eternals are super fantasy magic knights in full plate armor. The similarities between the two exist because they both share a common design basis - late medieval knights in plate armor. The original Rogue Trader beakie marine is straight up a guy in full plate armor with a houndskull bascinet, a 2000AD jet pack, and a space gun.

The Stormcast Eternals are bipedal, wear uniforms, use weapons, and tend to be victorious over their foes, which gives them the same number of equivalencies to Space Marines as, say, Napoleonic British line infantry.

But even then, objectively, Stormcast Eternals have more in common with Titans in Greek mythology than they do with Space Marines. This incorrect conflation occurs because it is erroneously repeated so often, including here (e.g., this forum's own moderators calling Stormdrakes "Space Mariness [riding] dragons"), which is unfortunate.

nb: if the mods feel this post, and the several last pages of posts, such as the overwhelming majority of posts in this N&R thread, are all offtopic spam, please feel free to move the discussion

The comparison between Stormcast Eternals and Space Marines merits its own thread, probably in the AoS General Discussion sub-forum. Further comments on the subject posted here will be deleted as off-topic. Thanks!

 Kanluwen wrote:

Regarding Grand Alliance: Order...
Remember that this is following the pattern of Grand Alliance: Chaos. It consists of things we already have(Stormcast Eternals, Extremis, Sylvaneth being their own faction now, and likely Fyreslayers) PLUS Legacy stuff that isn't going away or is being renamed/split off from their main bit(Dark Elves getting Blood Cults, High Elves getting Phoenix Temple, etc).

Were any units/factions/armies/models axed in the Grand Alliance (Unded/Chaos) books? If not I believe that every model will get a profile.

That said I really hope the elves get new units and style, because especially the High Elves (and Dark Elves to an extent) units were very tied with Ulthuan and its Kingdoms fluffwise...

I mean Dragon Princes without Caledor? White Lions without a Phoenix King to guard? It just feels wrong... :(

 Siegfried VII wrote:
Were any units/factions/armies/models axed in the Grand Alliance (Unded/Chaos) books? If not I believe that every model will get a profile.

Does dropping the entire Tomb Kings line count?

 Siegfried VII wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Regarding Grand Alliance: Order...
Remember that this is following the pattern of Grand Alliance: Chaos. It consists of things we already have(Stormcast Eternals, Extremis, Sylvaneth being their own faction now, and likely Fyreslayers) PLUS Legacy stuff that isn't going away or is being renamed/split off from their main bit(Dark Elves getting Blood Cults, High Elves getting Phoenix Temple, etc).

Were any units/factions/armies/models axed in the Grand Alliance (Unded/Chaos) books? If not I believe that every model will get a profile.

Off the top of my head, several characters(Galrauch, Throgg immediately spring to mind) were removed from Chaos. I don't know for sure regarding the units.
Death lost the entirety of the Tomb Kings.

That said I really hope the elves get new units and style, because especially the High Elves (and Dark Elves to an extent) units were very tied with Ulthuan and its Kingdoms fluffwise...
I mean Dragon Princes without Caledor? White Lions without a Phoenix King to guard? It just feels wrong... :(

White Lions weren't just the guardians of the Phoenix King. They also guarded his envoys, his chosen generals, etc.
Dragon Princes without Caledor...eh. One of the pictures in the leak was definitely Dragon Princes in a massed cavalry charge.

We DO know that Aelves are getting new factions. We've had one namedropped, the Shadowkin dwelling in Ulgu(Realm of Shadow), who are led by Malerion(Malekith reborn).
We've also been given information that names Tyrion as the new God of Light with Teclis as his blind high priest.
Then of course we know that Alarielle is now the Avatar of Life and has the Sylvaneth.

This new book is definitely an auto-buy for me, and probably for a whole lot of other people, once you factor in all those who had Empire, High/Wood/Dark Elves, Lizardmen (who presumably will be included?) and Dwarves. My High Elf army has been rebased and is nearly fully painted, so I'm keen to find out both what changes have happened to them, and also what kinds of stuff to expect going forward.

 Siegfried VII wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Regarding Grand Alliance: Order...
Remember that this is following the pattern of Grand Alliance: Chaos. It consists of things we already have(Stormcast Eternals, Extremis, Sylvaneth being their own faction now, and likely Fyreslayers) PLUS Legacy stuff that isn't going away or is being renamed/split off from their main bit(Dark Elves getting Blood Cults, High Elves getting Phoenix Temple, etc).

Were any units/factions/armies/models axed in the Grand Alliance (Unded/Chaos) books? If not I believe that every model will get a profile.

Did you seriously miss the Tomb Kings getting squatted?!

On top of that, lots of Death special characters were made generic (Krell is just a Wight Lord, Konrad, Vlad, and Isabella are all generic Vampire Lords, etc.). On the Chaos side, Forsaken and the Hellcannon were left out of the book, and again several special characters were either dropped (Galrauch, Throgg) or made generic (Sigvald, Villitch).

@Ghaz: I just checked the store and indeed Tomb Kings went "bye bye". So things do get the axe...


@Kanluwen: Hopefully we'll see some new Elven models. It's been ages as there weren't any new models in the End Times too at all.

What bothers me is the fact that when I see certain models/units they remind me directly of the old world... It's been thousands of years since its destruction, so even if the new Aelfs are direct descendants of the elves of the Old World they shoud at least have changed a bit aesthetically as well as change the names of their units/add new units ot their armies...


@Manfred von Drakken: I did not follow the Age of Sigmar new for a couple of months so yes I missed it.

So in the new Chaos Grand Alliance book there is no Hellcannon or Forsaken? Does that mean they are sort of illegal now?

Yeah, the GA books are the bridge between the Legacy Warscrolls and current 'legal' -I.e. will have a place in the Mortal Realms going forwards - units.
Expect the 'last chance to buy' section of the GW to go ape when this drops.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Siegfried VII wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Regarding Grand Alliance: Order...
Remember that this is following the pattern of Grand Alliance: Chaos. It consists of things we already have(Stormcast Eternals, Extremis, Sylvaneth being their own faction now, and likely Fyreslayers) PLUS Legacy stuff that isn't going away or is being renamed/split off from their main bit(Dark Elves getting Blood Cults, High Elves getting Phoenix Temple, etc).

Were any units/factions/armies/models axed in the Grand Alliance (Unded/Chaos) books? If not I believe that every model will get a profile.

Off the top of my head, several characters(Galrauch, Throgg immediately spring to mind) were removed from Chaos. I don't know for sure regarding the units.

In addition to characters, Skavenslaves were axed in GA:C. I believe Skaven Chieftain with BSB was cut too, but that is (sort of) a character.

 Siegfried VII wrote:
@Ghaz: I just checked the store and indeed Tomb Kings went "bye bye". So things do get the axe...


@Kanluwen: Hopefully we'll see some new Elven models. It's been ages as there weren't any new models in the End Times too at all.

What bothers me is the fact that when I see certain models/units they remind me directly of the old world... It's been thousands of years since its destruction, so even if the new Aelfs are direct descendants of the elves of the Old World they shoud at least have changed a bit aesthetically as well as change the names of their units/add new units ot their armies...


@Manfred von Drakken: I did not follow the Age of Sigmar new for a couple of months so yes I missed it.

So in the new Chaos Grand Alliance book there is no Hellcannon or Forsaken? Does that mean they are sort of illegal now?

No, legacy units are still legal. For example, all the TK units are still in the Age of Sigmar app.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 Siegfried VII wrote:
@Ghaz: I just checked the store and indeed Tomb Kings went "bye bye". So things do get the axe...


@Kanluwen: Hopefully we'll see some new Elven models. It's been ages as there weren't any new models in the End Times too at all.

What bothers me is the fact that when I see certain models/units they remind me directly of the old world... It's been thousands of years since its destruction, so even if the new Aelfs are direct descendants of the elves of the Old World they shoud at least have changed a bit aesthetically as well as change the names of their units/add new units ot their armies...


@Manfred von Drakken: I did not follow the Age of Sigmar new for a couple of months so yes I missed it.

So in the new Chaos Grand Alliance book there is no Hellcannon or Forsaken? Does that mean they are sort of illegal now?

No, legacy units are still legal. For example, all the TK units are still in the Age of Sigmar app.

So far...

 Zywus wrote:

So far...

Can't find it (don't use FB) so maybe someone can chime in here, but pretty sure someone posted the other day that according to the official AoS page warscrolls will only be updated on the app, they won't get deleted.

Yes, the GW Facebook guy confirmed TK etc rules won't be going anywhere.

Chikout wrote:
I think all the factions will lose some models. Wardancers and warhawks for example. Brettonia will probably be the last faction to be axed completely.

Will we really miss the pole dancing elves though??

So the new book will have 175 warscrolls but the store currently has 264 units in Order...

Are we going to lose close to 100 units? Ouch!

That's a lot of units. Brets only have 18 in the store, so you'd be looking at losing something like all the wood elves and empire (for example) to cut that many units out.

Lots of FineCast characters and redundant listings (bleakswords, breadsticks, sidesalad etc.) that could now just be one warscroll. Probably not as dramatic a chop as those numbers would suggest.

Still saddening to think about what will be axed. Such a waste of good fluff and models.

Don't worry, it's just 100 less warscrolls until the grand alliance order volume 2 book comes out in 6 months

But how many of those 270 are just redundancies - one box that has 2+ builds all listed separately. Or special war scrolls that combine multiple models into a force?

stormboy wrote:
But how many of those 270 are just redundancies - one box that has 2+ builds all listed separately. Or special war scrolls that combine multiple models into a force?

If you can build a box into 2 units it requires 2 warscrolls. Even rebranding of special characters into generic ones requires a warscroll for each. Yeah hopefully the cuts will mostly be felt on old finecast people don't care for - there are also some multiples in the store too like multiple warrior priests that get covered under one warscroll - and then cutting the battalion boxes counts for a few of the cuts too.

Still, it's a little bit worrying as 264 to 175 is a big drop.

Gonna go ahead and make some predictions for High Elves:
High Elf Prince on Griffon
Archers
Silver Helms
Spearmen
Eltharion on Stormwing
Imrik
Tyrion
Teclis
Caradryan
Korhil
Prince Althran
Alarielle the Radiant
Alith-Anar()
Tiranoc Chariot
White Lion Chariot
White Lions
Handmaiden of the Everqueen
Repeater Bolt Thrower

High Elves go from 38 unit entries to 20 unit entries.

Also gonna throw this out there, but I think we'll see the Swordmasters, Loremaster, and Ellyrion Reavers go. Swordmasters only had a plastic kit in the Isle of Blood set, Loremaster is one of the characters with an integrated base that can't really be adjusted easily and the "subfaction" that they would belong to(Swordmasters, Teclis, Loremaster, etc would possibly be a "subfaction" of their own) being removed...I could easily see them being removed. Ellyrion Reavers have the same issue with only having been plastics in IoB.

I could POSSIBLY see Alith-Anar making a comeback whenever we get to Shadowkin, but given that he's still in metal...I don't have high hopes for him.


Y'know what, what the hell! I'm gonna do Wood Elves too as a prediction:
Waywatcher Lord
Waywatchers
Wardancers
Shadowdancer
Orion
Hunting Hounds
Sisters of Twilight on Forest Dragon
Wood Elf Glade Lord on Forest Dragon
Glade Lord on Great Stag(Who is No Longer Available now no less, and was still in metal when I bought him a few months back)
Warhawk Riders
Glade Lord on Great Eagle
Glade Riders
Glade Guard
Spellweaver
Mounted Glade Lord
Glade Lord
Great Eagles

From 23(discounting the 6 Sylvaneth entries in there) down to 6(!) entries.

Dark Elves:
Harpies
Shades
Malekith, the Witch King
Sorceress on Cold One
Dreadlord on Cold One
Shadowblade(becomes Dark Elf Assassin instead)
Reaper Bolt Thrower
Beastmaster on Manticore
Morathi
Dreadlord
Malus Darkblade
Lokhir Fellheart
Hellebron(becomes an alternate setup for a Hag Queen)
Master with Battle Standard

From 38 to 24.

Why would I keep Dreadspears, Bleakswords, and Darkshards? They actually gave them all different rules.


After reading/writing this list...it makes me feel kinda sad. But at the same time I think I might actually be on to something as I've gone from 270 down to 222.

Anyone curious about this blog post excerpt?

Large models, like the Riptide, give you plenty of space to try out imaginative paint jobs. The striking greens on this example by Panaglotis Galanis bring to mind a swamp or jungle.

If you fancy having a go at painting your own towering suit of war-armour, check out the Ghostkeel, Stormsurge and Riptide.

Tomorrow, orcs.

See you then.

 Da Boss wrote:
That's a lot of units. Brets only have 18 in the store, so you'd be looking at losing something like all the wood elves and empire (for example) to cut that many units out.

Do you realize how much of the Wood Elf range is currently metal?

Waywatchers
Waywatcher Lord
Glade Captain with Battle Standard
Glade Lord on Great Stag(No Longer Available)
Glade Lord on Great Eagle(Temporarily Out of Stock)
Wardancers
Great Eagle
Warhawk Rider
Mounted Glade Lord
Glade Lord with Bow
The Spellsinger that is kind of pulling an 'iron cross' style handhold in midair.

11 models/units that are strictly metal at this point in time.

There are 30 random items like shield packs etc. With Kanluwen's guesses that takes it down to 192. Only 17 to go! Edit just realised Kanluwen's didn't include Brettonia. That takes it to 164. That would mean Empire and Dwarfs get through the unscathed. The reality is that a few of the old characters and finecast stuff from the Empire and Dwarf lines will go. (Get you dwarf adventures now!) so Kanluwen's cuts are probably a little overzealous. All this goes to say that, the likely demise of Brettonia aside, the cuts will probably not be too bad.

Chikout wrote:
There are 30 random items like shield packs etc. With Kanluwen's guesses that takes it down to 192. Only 17 to go!

UPDATED COUNT!

I went and counted every unit entry in the Order Warscrolls section of the AoS app.

It's 253 units all told.

Take my guesses (18, 17, 14) and you're down to 204. Subtract 4 for the Lizardmen units still listed(Oxyotl, Skink Chief, Tehenhauin, and Jungle Swarms) for an even 200.

I don't think it will be as bad as people are suggesting. Chances are those models you are thinking of won't get cut, far more likely it's the models you aren't thinking of. Those ones that you see in the web store and go "oh yeah, I remember those now".

Here's what I think is getting axed out of that 270:

-Thorek Ironbrow
-High King Thorgrim
-Dwarf Adventurers
-Drunken Dwarfs
-Joseph Bugman
-We also have three Dwarf Lord options that share the same warscroll (counting as two 'lost items')
Dwarfs lose 7

-Malekith
-Morathi
-Both finecast Sorceress'
-Finecast assassin
-Individual cold one
Delves lose 6

-High Elf Battalion
-Prince Imrik
-Tyrion
-Eltharion
-Swordsmasters
-Loremaster
-Alarielle
-Prince Althran
-Handmaiden
-Alith Anar
-Hero w/Sword n Board
-Two single store entries that have multiple warscrolls
Helves lose a net 9

-sisters
-tree kin
-orion
-lord on eagle
-lord on stag
-wardancer command
-wardancers
-araloth
-great eagle
-warhawk rider
-standard bearer
-shadowdancer
-one of the spellsinger options
Welves lose 13

-empire battalion
-valtens
-engineer on steed
-marius leitdorf
-balthasar gelt
-ludwig
-kurt helborg
-luther huss
-redundent generals and priests count for 4 more
empire loses 13

-brettonia gets cut for 18

-a number of items such as warscroll compendiums, collection bundles, and paint sets are counted in that 270 (41 in fact)

Totaling that up we get 107 out of the projected loss of 95 options. Naturally I probably made a mistake or predicted incorrectly here and there, and some of those 175 warscrolls will be battalions, but looking at the list above does not give me the impression that Order is going to be gutted.

I genuinely don't see Sisters of the Thorn going anywhere, if only because I foresee them being brought over into the inevitable "Alarielle's Court" faction alongside the Wild Riders, Eternal Guard, and Wildwood Rangers.

They never count Battalions as part of their Warscroll counts--plus the post listing them had it written as "175 Warscrolls plus a selection of formations".

 Kanluwen wrote:
They never count Battalions as part of their Warscroll counts--plus the post listing them had it written as "175 Warscrolls plus a selection of formations".

Adds some wiggle room then. At any rate the situation is really only moderate cuts to the model line, nothing like what happened with Tomb Kings.

The doom of the Bretonnians approaches! But what will finish them off? We're taking all bets!

1,000/1 They somehow overcome all of the above and escape their seemingly inevitable doom.

Wait, there's a unit that is /actually/ called "Deathbringer"? "Deathbringer"? Dear lord, really...? Who thinks of these names, a teenager? At the very least, the model looks good.

I can also see some of the Bret plastics surviving under some new name. I mean the plastic knights are way newer than the old empire Knights so they might just have one human knight type entry.

I doubt morathi will go as she apears in the books as a pivitol character for malorians revival though the spears and swords and shards could be combined into one as there one kit anyway. Dwarfs could combine warriors and longbeards and thunderers as there also one kit. Ungrim could go and slayers/dragon slayers as well (though i hope not). We will see.

 Dawnbringer wrote:
I can also see some of the Bret plastics surviving under some new name. I mean the plastic knights are way newer than the old empire Knights so they might just have one human knight type entry.

Most every country has multiple Bretonnian kits listed as 'No Longer Available', including the plastic knights. I don't see the Bretonnian line surviving.

Grand Alliance Order will combo the range for finecast and metal. Will it add anytime to the game, other than a physical book with a collection of warscrolls and background story?

Skullhammer wrote:
I doubt morathi will go as she apears in the books as a pivitol character for malorians revival though the spears and swords and shards could be combined into one as there one kit anyway. Dwarfs could combine warriors and longbeards and thunderers as there also one kit. Ungrim could go and slayers/dragon slayers as well (though i hope not). We will see.

Morathi, as it stands, is a Finecast kit. She can be a pivotal character for Malerion's revival, but until we actually get Malerion(Shadowkin)...she's irrelevant.
Darkspears, Bleakswords, and Darkshards are likely to be renamed but stick around as three separate profiles.
I also think it possible that Empire State Troops hang around and get broken into their elements(Swordsmen, Spearmen, and Halberdiers).

I highly doubt you'll see Slayers/Dragon Slayers stick around seeing as how there's an entire faction of Slayers now(Fyreslayers).

Finecast is not a reason just by itself for entries to dissapear. Seraphons and Khorn Bloodbound still have finecast models.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Wait, there's a unit that is /actually/ called "Deathbringer"? "Deathbringer"? Dear lord, really...? Who thinks of these names, a teenager? At the very least, the model looks good.

The whole aesthetic of the Bloodbound is over the top savagery. They're not an elegant, sophisticated bunch. Honestly, while a bit unimaginative, it definitely works for this character considering everything I just mentioned.

~Tim?

As well as kits actually going missing, don't forget that some stuff will survive and become 'generified' - so for example I'm expecting DE assassin minis to go, along with Shadowblade's warscroll, but the assassin warscroll and Shadowblade's mini will stay.
Belegar will become A.N. Dwarf Lord, Araloth will become a Lord, etc.

I will be sad to see the Brettonian minis go. They were a faction I always wanted but never bought any of because I knew I couldn't paint well enough to do them justice.

The peasant minis were really nice too.

*sigh* - Guess they have to make way for more boring Stormcast minis though.

 Bottle wrote:

stormboy wrote:
But how many of those 270 are just redundancies - one box that has 2+ builds all listed separately. Or special war scrolls that combine multiple models into a force?

If you can build a box into 2 units it requires 2 warscrolls. Even rebranding of special characters into generic ones requires a warscroll for each. Yeah hopefully the cuts will mostly be felt on old finecast people don't care for - there are also some multiples in the store too like multiple warrior priests that get covered under one warscroll - and then cutting the battalion boxes counts for a few of the cuts too.

Still, it's a little bit worrying as 264 to 175 is a big drop.

A kit that makes two or more different units sometimes requires separate war scrolls but often doesn't. The Carnosaur, for example, can be built as three different characters, who each have their own war scroll. The Skinks have only one scroll, but it has the stat lines on it for the I think four different weapon builds you can give to Skins out of the same kit.

Schmapdi wrote:
I will be sad to see the Brettonian minis go. They were a faction I always wanted but never bought any of because I knew I couldn't paint well enough to do them justice.

The peasant minis were really nice too.

*sigh* - Guess they have to make way for more boring Stormcast minis though.

Did Bretonnians actually sell that well?

My hope is that they get rid of the empire ponies but keep the brettonian Knights box. You only really need that box and a bit of converting skill to make a good looking brettonian army.

 angelofvengeance wrote:

Schmapdi wrote:
I will be sad to see the Brettonian minis go. They were a faction I always wanted but never bought any of because I knew I couldn't paint well enough to do them justice.

The peasant minis were really nice too.

*sigh* - Guess they have to make way for more boring Stormcast minis though.

Did Bretonnians actually sell that well?

No one gave two cents about them until they were gone. Suddenly everyone is mourning the loss.

People couldn't mourn the loss until it happened, of course.

No-one except GW really knows how well Bretonnians sold, or any other line for that matter.

I guess you might get some anecdotal evidence by people reporting how often they see a Bretonnian army in the wild.

 angelofvengeance wrote:

Schmapdi wrote:
I will be sad to see the Brettonian minis go. They were a faction I always wanted but never bought any of because I knew I couldn't paint well enough to do them justice.

The peasant minis were really nice too.

*sigh* - Guess they have to make way for more boring Stormcast minis though.

Did Bretonnians actually sell that well?

No, but they put up a parking lot.

Considering Brets are now on their third edition change with no new books or releases, I don't think it's shocking that they haven't been selling that well.

It's the typical GW self fulfilling prophecy bs.

I remember back in 5th when they were part of the starter, and massively overpowered. Darn wedges of cheese, everyone was fielding them.

Shame to see them fallen on hard times though, there was a lot of fun/flavor to be had with them, and some nice models.

I think the Brettonian problem was that the studio didn't know what to do with the army. A plastic grail knights and questing knights box would have been great, but what else would they add. The thing about Brettonians is that they are basically lots of Knights. Knights on foot doesn't really make sense. More peasents would just just dilute the essence of the army. I hope they take the time to make a new human faction loosely inspired by Bretonnia but with a bit more creative freedom. AOS let them make slayers ride monsters after all.

AOS might actually be a good thing for them then. Leave the peasants to the other factions. Do they need to be anything but 2-4 flavors of mounted knights and a character or three? Obviously as a full, old style army, this makes a lopsided list. But as part of the forces of Order? Should fit.

Kinda like the ally-sized codexes in 40k (harlequins etc) While you technically could field them solo, they work best when tacked on to another, more robust, army. Want some heavy cav to add you your force? Just take a unit of brets.

Hmph. OT but some of us like the peasants!

It doesn't bode well for AoS as a whole then, if GW is binning stuff that doesn't sell well.

Chikout wrote:
I think the Brettonian problem was that the studio didn't know what to do with the army. A plastic grail knights and questing knights box would have been great, but what else would they add. The thing about Brettonians is that they are basically lots of Knights. Knights on foot doesn't really make sense. More peasents would just just dilute the essence of the army. I hope they take the time to make a new human faction loosely inspired by Bretonnia but with a bit more creative freedom. AOS let them make slayers ride monsters after all.

I've heard similar arguments from other people and never really understood that logic. Like many armies (which actually got the treatment) Brettonia would've greatly benefited from plastics (Grail Knights, Questing Knights, General/ BSB, mounted Yeoman, Enchantress foot/ mounted, character on gryphon, combo catapult/ trebuchet, Grail Relique) PLUS they easily could've flushed out other parts of the faction like Peasant HQ's, religious nut jobs (always thought zealots were a better fit in Brettonia rather than the empire), casting units, and disgraced Knights on foot looking for a noble death (human slayers anyone?). Yeah, there was a lot they could've done.

WHITE DWARF WEEKLY 114 (ENGLISH) 4
WARHAMMER VISIONS 27 (ENGLISH) WH: Visions 12
GRAND ALLIANCE: ORDER (FRENCH) Book (SB) 35
GRAND ALLIANCE: ORDER (ENGLISH) Book (SB) 35
EXALTED DEATHBRINGER WITH IMPALING SPEAR 30
SLAUGHTERPRIEST WITH HACKBLADE Plastic Clam 30
ASPIRING DEATHBRINGER WITH GOREAXE Plastic Clam 30
HH: THE SEVENTH SERPENT (HB) Other Book 24
WZ FENRIS:CURSE OF THE WULFEN (HB NOVEL) 24



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Wait, there's a unit that is /actually/ called "Deathbringer"? "Deathbringer"? Dear lord, really...? Who thinks of these names, a teenager? At the very least, the model looks good.

This is GW we're talking about... "Space Wolves". Space.... wolves. "Deathwatch Overkill". "Wulfen Murderpack". even "Devastator Squad" sounds like it's from a terrible Saturday morning cartoon, but everyone's just kind of used to how dumb GW's names for everything are.

Chikout wrote:
I think the Brettonian problem was that the studio didn't know what to do with the army. A plastic grail knights and questing knights box would have been great, but what else would they add. The thing about Brettonians is that they are basically lots of Knights. Knights on foot doesn't really make sense. More peasents would just just dilute the essence of the army. I hope they take the time to make a new human faction loosely inspired by Bretonnia but with a bit more creative freedom. AOS let them make slayers ride monsters after all.

Brettonians could be turned into a more varied but still "realistic" and coherent force by basing them on Crusader armies. This would give them a core of mounted knights in heraldic costume, supported by foot sergeants with crossbows and spears, and light cavalry Turcopoles. The peasants could be retained as camp followers. Bunng in some sort of magic and religious icons based on Sigmarism and I reckon there's a pretty reasonable AoS concept.

 godswildcard wrote:
I've heard similar arguments from other people and never really understood that logic. Like many armies (which actually got the treatment) Brettonia would've greatly benefited from plastics (Grail Knights, Questing Knights, General/ BSB, mounted Yeoman, Enchantress foot/ mounted, character on gryphon, combo catapult/ trebuchet, Grail Relique) PLUS they easily could've flushed out other parts of the faction like Peasant HQ's, religious nut jobs (always thought zealots were a better fit in Brettonia rather than the empire), casting units, and disgraced Knights on foot looking for a noble death (human slayers anyone?). Yeah, there was a lot they could've done.

since we don't know the accounting books, one can only assume that they didn't want to invest the millions of bucks into retooling an army for a game system that was dying and they planned to replace anyway. Too many armies, too many skus. Whatever the reason, it's a more informed one than we can give, as GW keeps making money and everyone here keeps buying their stuff so they're doing something right.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 judgedoug wrote:
GRAND ALLIANCE: ORDER (ENGLISH) Book (SB) 35

If this is anywhere near the quality and size of the Grand Alliance Chaos book, this is a hell of a (GW) deal.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

Chikout wrote:
I think the Brettonian problem was that the studio didn't know what to do with the army. A plastic grail knights and questing knights box would have been great, but what else would they add. The thing about Brettonians is that they are basically lots of Knights. Knights on foot doesn't really make sense. More peasents would just just dilute the essence of the army. I hope they take the time to make a new human faction loosely inspired by Bretonnia but with a bit more creative freedom. AOS let them make slayers ride monsters after all.

Brettonians could be turned into a more varied but still "realistic" and coherent force by basing them on Crusader armies. This would give them a core of mounted knights in heraldic costume, supported by foot sergeants with crossbows and spears, and light cavalry Turcopoles. The peasants could be retained as camp followers. Bunng in some sort of magic and religious icons based on Sigmarism and I reckon there's a pretty reasonable AoS concept.

If I had to ballpark it, you're not going to see anything beyond the Knights of the Realm/ Errant hanging around.

I would expect Free People(a confirmed faction for the Order book and a keyword applying to both The Empire and Bretonnians) to consist of the following:
Knightly Lord or some other silly name for a rejigged Empire Captain as the Empire General box is one of the few plastic Hero boxed sets that exist, and what's more it's one of the few where there's no built-in scenery bits that would pose an issue for rebasing them. This would give you a couple of different profiles(Banner Bearer would be its own, General mounted on Imperial Griffon would be its own, mounted on horse would be its own, etc)
Empire State Troops get split into 3 unit choices(Spearmen, Halberdiers, Swordsmen) with each having its own unique set of rules like the Dark Elf Spearmen, Crossbowmen, and Swordsmen do.
Handgunners
Crossbowmen
Bretonnian Knights of the Realm and Knights Errant get added in to replace the long past its prime Empire Knight kit
Demigryph Knights
Archers/Huntsmen become a single profile of "Scouts"
Markus Wulfhart becomes a "Huntsman"
Pegasus Knights


We know Battle Mages are to be their own faction, and I'm going to predict this:
Amber Battle Wizard on Imperial Griffon
Amber Battle Wizard
Bright Wizard
Amethyst Wizard
White Wizard
Gold Wizard
Grey Wizard
Jade Wizard
Heavens Wizard
Luminark of Hysh
Celestial Hurricanum

Devoted of Sigmar(another faction we've had namedropped from the leak):
Witch Hunter
Grand Priest of Sigmar(Volkmar the Grim rebadged)
War Altar of Sigmar
Crazed Mob(Flagellants)
Priest of Sigmar(encompasses all the existing Warrior Priest models)

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Brettonians could be turned into a more varied but still "realistic" and coherent force by basing them on Crusader armies. This would give them a core of mounted knights in heraldic costume, supported by foot sergeants with crossbows and spears, and light cavalry Turcopoles. The peasants could be retained as camp followers. Bunng in some sort of magic and religious icons based on Sigmarism and I reckon there's a pretty reasonable AoS concept.

And, of course, it's a fantasy setting... so you're not limited to putting the knights on just horses...

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The peasants could be retained as camp followers.

I know it's the correct term and I should be an adult, but every time I see/hear it it makes me think of the Monty Python camp army drill sketch...
https://youtu.be/ol5Dfs7jqFI?list=RDqIFUm70n0fU

 insaniak wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Brettonians could be turned into a more varied but still "realistic" and coherent force by basing them on Crusader armies. This would give them a core of mounted knights in heraldic costume, supported by foot sergeants with crossbows and spears, and light cavalry Turcopoles. The peasants could be retained as camp followers. Bunng in some sort of magic and religious icons based on Sigmarism and I reckon there's a pretty reasonable AoS concept.

And, of course, it's a fantasy setting... so you're not limited to putting the knights on just horses...

THIS!

I'd love the Bretonnians to become something like Realm Riders where they become a all cavalry force of fantastical creatures that ties into their new knighthood.

Bigger the beast you subdue=higher on the totem pole you are.

Having them range from light cavalry of bipedal birds and warhorses to heavy cavalry of dragons, elemental beasts and stuff that basically looks like a mountain came to life and grew fur.

Today, I called in an order from my local retail store, Part of my order was boxes of Empire Hand-gunner/Crossbowman in which the retailer did not had any at the store. He told me he is not sure if he can restock on that item and would let me know if he cannot get them.

I assume that means the 10 Empire Hand-gunner/Crossbowmen boxes are either getting a repackaging of 20 per box or, in the worst case, one of the plastic kits that is not being remade.

That's a good question. Is everything in the Order Battletome being reboxed?

 Haechi wrote:
That's a good question. Is everything in the Order Battletome being reboxed?

This didn't happen for the Chaos and Death books that only saw a fraction of their kits repackaged, so there are few reasons for that to happen with the Order one. It's even less probable considering the very large amount of kits that would need a repack.

Alright.

Chikout wrote:
I think the Brettonian problem was that the studio didn't know what to do with the army. A plastic grail knights and questing knights box would have been great, but what else would they add. The thing about Brettonians is that they are basically lots of Knights. Knights on foot doesn't really make sense. More peasents would just just dilute the essence of the army. I hope they take the time to make a new human faction loosely inspired by Bretonnia but with a bit more creative freedom. AOS let them make slayers ride monsters after all.

Historically; knights dismounted, guy in full plate with a big sword is effective.
Yes to crusader style spear and crossbow militias, so many crusades to go on too...

There is a big market out there for Knights, just plain honest knights in armour fighting monsters. They're the badass normals of the setting - facing off against dragons and demons and all sorts of abominations with nothing but cold steel and bravery. That's way more awesome than slapping them on top of monsters of their own.

That was certainly the attraction of Brets to me. But if I want to make Brets these days, I've got a wealth of options from Historicals.

I've found that as I acquire plastic historicals from Perry and Fire Forge that I am more and more interested in some bad ass heroic style knights as well.

I really liked the idea posted earlier about Brets being a full on cavalry style force full of dudes on crazier and crazier mythical beasts. Would make for a fun army.

 akai wrote:
Today, I called in an order from my local retail store, Part of my order was boxes of Empire Hand-gunner/Crossbowman in which the retailer did not had any at the store. He told me he is not sure if he can restock on that item and would let me know if he cannot get them.

I assume that means the 10 Empire Hand-gunner/Crossbowmen boxes are either getting a repackaging of 20 per box or, in the worst case, one of the plastic kits that is not being remade.

Does he order from GW or a third party distributor?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 akai wrote:
Today, I called in an order from my local retail store, Part of my order was boxes of Empire Hand-gunner/Crossbowman in which the retailer did not had any at the store. He told me he is not sure if he can restock on that item and would let me know if he cannot get them.

I assume that means the 10 Empire Hand-gunner/Crossbowmen boxes are either getting a repackaging of 20 per box or, in the worst case, one of the plastic kits that is not being remade.

Does he order from GW or a third party distributor?

I do not have that information.

 DarkBlack wrote:

Chikout wrote:
I think the Brettonian problem was that the studio didn't know what to do with the army. A plastic grail knights and questing knights box would have been great, but what else would they add. The thing about Brettonians is that they are basically lots of Knights. Knights on foot doesn't really make sense. More peasents would just just dilute the essence of the army. I hope they take the time to make a new human faction loosely inspired by Bretonnia but with a bit more creative freedom. AOS let them make slayers ride monsters after all.

Historically; knights dismounted, guy in full plate with a big sword is effective.
Yes to crusader style spear and crossbow militias, so many crusades to go on too...

...isn't that all basically Empire?

History Is bad for Bretonnia. Historically the feudal nation next to the advanced renaissance nation doesn't do so well. Only going high fantasy with magic and monsters would've saved it.

Maybe the Brets will become Legion of the Damned and appear when needed...

Baron Klatz wrote:

 DarkBlack wrote:

Chikout wrote:
I think the Brettonian problem was that the studio didn't know what to do with the army. A plastic grail knights and questing knights box would have been great, but what else would they add. The thing about Brettonians is that they are basically lots of Knights. Knights on foot doesn't really make sense. More peasents would just just dilute the essence of the army. I hope they take the time to make a new human faction loosely inspired by Bretonnia but with a bit more creative freedom. AOS let them make slayers ride monsters after all.

Historically; knights dismounted, guy in full plate with a big sword is effective.
Yes to crusader style spear and crossbow militias, so many crusades to go on too...

...isn't that all basically Empire?

History Is bad for Bretonnia. Historically the feudal nation next to the advanced renaissance nation doesn't do so well. Only going high fantasy with magic and monsters would've saved it.

The main difference would be that you have the romanticized high medieval/fantasy knights that are all about knightly virtues and honour; next to the gritty (approaching grimdark) empire that prioritizes survival and has dark realities like internal politics.

Baron Klatz wrote:

 DarkBlack wrote:

Chikout wrote:
I think the Brettonian problem was that the studio didn't know what to do with the army. A plastic grail knights and questing knights box would have been great, but what else would they add. The thing about Brettonians is that they are basically lots of Knights. Knights on foot doesn't really make sense. More peasents would just just dilute the essence of the army. I hope they take the time to make a new human faction loosely inspired by Bretonnia but with a bit more creative freedom. AOS let them make slayers ride monsters after all.

Historically; knights dismounted, guy in full plate with a big sword is effective.
Yes to crusader style spear and crossbow militias, so many crusades to go on too...

...isn't that all basically Empire?

History Is bad for Bretonnia. Historically the feudal nation next to the advanced renaissance nation doesn't do so well. Only going high fantasy with magic and monsters would've saved it.

It's a fantasy game, so real history needn't have effect. I am sure there is a way to adapt Bretonnians' look and feel into AoS. It's impossible that a design studio of 100+ people couldn't manage to think of an idea -- I got one in about two minutes -- so I presume that GW have decided they have too many armies and want to reduce them.

 Da Boss wrote:
There is a big market out there for Knights, just plain honest knights in armour fighting monsters. They're the badass normals of the setting - facing off against dragons and demons and all sorts of abominations with nothing but cold steel and bravery. That's way more awesome than slapping them on top of monsters of their own.

Yeah, just like the heroes Khorne. There is plenty of scope for heroes knights on horse or on foot.

That was certainly the attraction of Brets to me. But if I want to make Brets these days, I've got a wealth of options from Historicals.

and there you have the reason for GW to leave brettonians.

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Maybe the Brets will become Legion of the Damned and appear when needed...

...so never?

Given that all other armies have huge monsters and strong magic...or golden armors to fight with, I don't see the need for peasants to come in and help.

FW have updated their Monstrous Arcanum

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/PDF/fw_warscrolls/aos-monstrous-arcanum.pdf

The latest rumour from faeit is that all the brettonians will go last chance to buy from tomorrow. I am inclined to believe this one. The webstore should be reorganised at the same time. We should get an idea of the new factions then.

 reds8n wrote:
FW have updated their Monstrous Arcanum

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/PDF/fw_warscrolls/aos-monstrous-arcanum.pdf

Lots of cool stuff for destruction! Feels like your army just got a huge monster boost!

But no warscroll for the Warhammer Fire Dragon :(



I suppose I could use it with the Magma Dragon warscroll.

It's worth mentioning these are in the app too.

It covers all the stuff which was previously online/printed in Monstrous Arcanum and had models.

TIME TO FINISH MY MERWYRM! That blighter is nuts!

Problem with Brets for the glorious new age of sigmar is that a over the top high fantasy version bretonnian knights is more or less what we see in the stormcast eternals.

In this day and age though, the cool thing to do with knights is to make a Game of thrones rip of with distinct rivaling houses, suffering serfs and perhaps a special order of knights to fight of the undead.

Dont know who pitched the bretonia/GoT fusion, but I think its what GW should have done, IMO.

I don't think there's anything wrong with Brets in AoS and think they could be just as justified as any army. I think everything about which ranges stay and which go has to do with sales.

Well sales and needing space for future stock.

But yeah, Brets are rumored to go to the last chance on Saturday. Which is a far better fate compared to it looking like they were being sold out and forgotten.

Agreed to Stormcast being AoS Brets, the Brets were considered by some to be the space marines of fantasy. The hallowed knights are my main Stormcasts because they show the best in faith and honor which I associate with Bretonnia.

It'll be interesting to see what the future holds for the factions in AoS. Looking forward to the order alliance book and the website being restructured.

Can the Carmine Dragon be used as a mount?

I strangely like the rules...

I'll just leave this here, it's a long list ...

https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/575

Order Exodus ^100

Seems like they are getting rid of all Human type knights. Possibly Empire/Brets will be a combined force of Humonians with new kits?

Holy cow! It's Lady Atia!

Awesome blog and great job with providing those awesome leaks!

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Can the Carmine Dragon be used as a mount?

I strangely like the rules...

I don't think so, but there did used to be a character who came mounted on one? Lady Elspethe Von Draken I believe her name was.

Maybe she'll come back as a 'generic wizard on Carmine Dragon'?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Atia wrote:
I'll just leave this here, it's a long list ...

https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/575

Order Exodus ^100

It kind of saddens me how accurate I was in my predictions.

 Atia wrote:
I'll just leave this here, it's a long list ...

https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/575

Order Exodus ^100

Whoa - Waywatchers are on that list to be cut! Do you have thoughts on that, Kan, as I thought you use them pretty heavily in AoS?

Looks like lots of elves being removed (like 15 models/units each from high, wood, and dark) along with a similar number from dwarfs and empire, with a complete removal of Brettonians...

 RiTides wrote:
Whoa - Waywatchers are on that list! Do you have thoughts on that, Kan, as I thought you use them pretty heavily in AoS?

It pisses me off, but I saw it comin'.

When the WE book came out, they were metal.
End Times rolled around, they were metal.
They're still metal now.

It's fine though. I've got all the Waywatchers I could ever feel comfortable using and I have the physical print-out/PDF saved for AOS.

Looks like lots of elves being removed (like 15 models/units each from high, wood, and dark) along with a similar number from dwarfs and empire, with a complete removal of Brettonians...

Yup. It's mostly the old plastics/Finecast/metal stuff from all of the Elves.

While they've not been moved into the 'Last Chance to Buy' category as of yet, a lot of these models have been marked with the 'Last Chance to Buy' icon in the GW webstore.

 Atia wrote:
I'll just leave this here, it's a long list ...

https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/575

Order Exodus ^100

They can't be that silly to axe that much stuff all at the same time can they? Seriously trying to buy up stuff as its marked Last Chance but that's beyond most peoples ability if its all done at the same time...quite sad to see so much stuff being axed like that too..

By the look of things all the knights on horses with lances are going, but the guys on horses with guns are not.

So I'm guessing the new mortal order faction will be a a machinery, magic and magical machinery based force (I'm considering riding a monstrous mount magical).
Leaving the knightly hero role to the Stormcast alone.

I can live with that;
1: the humans/dwarves relying on "tools and ingenuity" to survive or contribute sounds like a workable faction idea
2: The Stormcast are kinda bland looking (as an army) because they are all similar looking golden armour, but if there are a few as the elite troops with men they will stand out nicely.

Agreed.

All stuff that makes sense. They are keeping newer and better designed plastic kits (except for the glade riders which I really like). Anything metal or finecast is going. Sad to see so many great warmachines go. The dwarf ones and the de bolt thrower were pretty nice.

Overall though I'm less bothered by this than by the Tomb Kings being dropped.

Wow! Thats a big cut, I fear for my Orruks now.

 NAVARRO wrote:
Wow! Thats a big cut, I fear for my Orruks now.

Ehhh...Orruks have a Start Collecting set, so the stuff in there at least is safe.

Add in that Savage Orks seem to be getting quite a bit of love from AoS' GW and I think Orruks are going to come out of this fairly well.

Looks like all the Bretonnian stuff is now gone off the website


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lt. Donomar StubbornBull wrote:
Looks like all the Bretonnian stuff is now gone off the website

Correction, looks like they've all been moved to last Chance to Buy

You can see the cut units on the New Zealand store now. Brets are all in there - Empire lose Knights and Cannon/Mortar plus loads of characters. High Elves seem to lose a lot too.

I need to decide if I want to buy a box of Dwarf miners now - I have the 8 from BFSP which isn't enough to make a basic unit... Hmm

Overall I am happy 90% of the Empire range makes it through intact.

You can see the cut units on the US webstore as well. The cuts always go live the day before.

The only Aelves army to come out relatively okay from this was Dark Elves.

Indeed, 92 items in the last chance to buy for Order now. I kind of wish Chaos and Death had sensible trims like this one seems to be.

Yeah dark elves still lost a lot of characters and their bolt throwers. High Elves basically lost their entire "core" and Wood Elves are now down to 12 units.

Lots of really great kits going the way of the dodo... I might have to pick some up.

Well. I have absolutely no reason to invest another cent into Fantasy. GG, GW.

The only one that really stings for me is the glade riders. That is a really great kit.

They're slowly getting down to a sensible range of models for their Fantasy range. Hopefully they can now keep AoS more reasonable and not bloat it to unsustainable levels... Again.

I assume there are no newer plastic kits here? The Wood Elf kits and Dark Elf kits from their latest releases are amazing, and from what I can see they're all still there.

 Bottle wrote:
Yeah dark elves still lost a lot of characters and their bolt throwers.

Dark Elves basically just lost everything Finecast. No joke. Not a single plastic kit was touched.

High Elves basically lost their entire "core"

And nobody cried a single tear for Gary Morley's Hulk Hand High Elves to finally get gone.

and Wood Elves are now down to 12 units.

Not gonna lie, I'm surprised at how much Wood Elves kept. Especially considering how much of it is actually still metal!
Metal
Metal
Metal

Out of the 11 remaining Wood Elf items(discounting the Compendium obviously), 3 are metal. There's more metal characters than Finecast OR plastic in the Wood Elf range.



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Chikout wrote:
The only one that really stings for me is the glade riders. That is a really great kit.

I politely disagree.

I really wanted to see the Glade Guard gone as well as the Glade Riders. The aesthetic they have and the kits themselves are a bit out of whack when compared to the Eternal Guard, Wildwood Rangers, Sisters of the Thorn, and Wild Riders.

I'm quite surprised (pleasantly) the the excellent Dragon Slayer is sticking around - I wonder if steamhead Duardin still have classic slayers among them?

These are the first cuts where I feel the sting on my projects (though not too strongly) - I have 3 waywatchers and 8 miners which will likely not become full units now. I have 8 Empire knights that I had always wanted to add more to as well.

Can't wait to see the restructured factions now.

I think you will be able to pick up the Empire Knights easily Bottle, they were in so many Empire boxed sets and were around for years, good luck with the others.

Am sad to see the Brettonians and other units go, but am looking forward to whatever new human based analogue GW can come up with.

Yeah the Empire Range did not get cut as badly as I thought it would. I was nervously contemplating getting a box of Pistoliers but they seem save. So I can hold off for now.

That being sad...there are a few things I'll have to grab now. I always wanted the Dwarf on Shield bearers and one last box of Militia just because I love that set!

 Mymearan wrote:
They're slowly getting down to a sensible range of models for their Fantasy range. Hopefully they can now keep AoS more reasonable and not bloat it to unsustainable levels... Again.

There are far from getting close to a sensible amount of models from my PoV. If it's true that for their warehouse it's a decent trimming of the range, for us nearly if not all of these models be they metal/resin or old plastics were already no longer available to stores for quite some time. So my order form will still be as bloated as before, and with GW obsession with selling AoS characters separately instead of as options in the boxes it's not getting better at all.

OTOH I think it's not far fetched to wonder if the faction tomes are being intended to be updated relatively regularly, with another set of new models being added / old models being removed each time.

Altogther, they have cut about 20% of their fantasy range. After destruction gets done it will be about 25%. Honestly I am surprised. When the rumours about a new game started going round I thought that we would be left with 25% of the range, if that. I expect that other kits will gradually fade away over time, like the space marine masters of the chapter.

BOOM! Called it--Dark Elf infantry remains separated.

Also the faction is now called "Darkling Coven"--which lines up neatly with what little we know about the Shadowkin.


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 Wulfson_40K wrote:
So my order form will still be as bloated as before, and with GW obsession with selling AoS characters separately instead of as options in the boxes it's not getting better at all.

What "AoS characters" are they selling you "separately instead of as options in the boxes"?
Genuinely curious here.

 Breotan wrote:
Well. I have absolutely no reason to invest another cent into Fantasy. GG, GW.

I almost felt like writing to GW explaining why they aren't getting my money before I remembered they don't seem to want my money anyway (also, I'm lazy).

I'm waiting & hoping for everyone to dump their Brets on Ebay. If prices are cheap I'll buy a ton. If prices are high I'll sell off everything. Either way I'm happy.