South Africa has a surplus of lobster as they are struggling to get buyers from china, their biggest market. Apparently lobster is selling for half what it did as they have way too much supply and no demand.
So, in my clinic, the thing is a real fear for several reasons, biggest being parents will still send their kids into the clinic for services if they are sick, we have gotten kids come in with like, snot running down their nose and garbage like that. Its insane, to the poit where we are all saying that if a kid comes in sick we are going to recommend they get picked up.
Its very unlikely those kids have corona virus. Of 44000 cases only 400 had been under 10s (not even 1%), of which not one of them died.
Kids with runny noses is an unfortunate fact of life, not really related to Corona virus. What Corona virus does do, though, is highlight how complacent we are about hygiene and sickness generally.
8 cases confirmed in Slovenia so far, all of them people going YOLO and knowingly travelling to/through hotspots, 3 of them doctors. One of them came from Italy and went straight to work, came into contact with 40 patients, his entire hospital is shut down now. We have nothing to fear but the sheer stupidity of humans
Three in the county in Maryland where I live. They took a trip overseas and brought back an unwanted souvenir. Ah, and apparently spread it around in a few places, including a retirement community.
Yeah you can't blame kids for being a bit snotty. My daughter gets colds constantly. Usually it's nothing but last year one of the times came with tonsillitis. What am I going to do, just not take her to the docs?
This is partly our own fault for being too hygienic. People can't deal with germs and diseases anymore because they over sanitise everything.
Well it's starting to pop up in Kentucky and Tennessee. Sucks for me because my work has a pandemic action plan and with cases this close it means all trainings and meetings off site have essentially been cancelled.
Not seen much panic yet, but I have a feeling next time I go into town to buy groceries I'm gonna go ahead and grab a couole packages of TP and another couple weeks of food. I've already got about a 3 weeks supply of each that I keep for any time the dreaded word of "snow" crosses the news headlines and the stores get slammed, but I have a feeling this will start a panic buy soon as well.
Granted if this becomes a true pandemic I'm laughably underprepared even with something like 2 months of supplies, but that's what I get for playing 40k and not investing in an underground bunker I guess
queen_annes_revenge wrote: Yeah you can't blame kids for being a bit snotty. My daughter gets colds constantly. Usually it's nothing but last year one of the times came with tonsillitis. What am I going to do, just not take her to the docs?
This is partly our own fault for being too hygienic. People can't deal with germs and diseases anymore because they over sanitise everything.
That’s true. Back in the age of cholera, consumption, the grip, Polio and the plague, people lived so much longer due to the lack of sanitation.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: Yeah you can't blame kids for being a bit snotty. My daughter gets colds constantly. Usually it's nothing but last year one of the times came with tonsillitis. What am I going to do, just not take her to the docs?
This is partly our own fault for being too hygienic. People can't deal with germs and diseases anymore because they over sanitise everything.
I'm not talking about kids being snotty, I mean parents bringing their kids in full on sick, like a nose like a faucet or caughing up lungs
queen_annes_revenge wrote: Yeah you can't blame kids for being a bit snotty. My daughter gets colds constantly. Usually it's nothing but last year one of the times came with tonsillitis. What am I going to do, just not take her to the docs?
This is partly our own fault for being too hygienic. People can't deal with germs and diseases anymore because they over sanitise everything.
I'm not talking about kids being snotty, I mean parents bringing their kids in full on sick, like a nose like a faucet or caughing up lungs
Dual income families with employment obligations that encourage the sick to spread their diseases in the work place (how on earth do employers view this as desirable?) or dissuade parents from keeping their sick kids out of class/care.
While i do understand that it is none the less frustrating when a parent decides to drop their kid off(Or let us come to their house) when they are clearly sick, not only making it miserable for us, but them aswell, and risk putting it into other kids, some with weakened immune systems. and then causing us to call in sick cause we cought it from them.
The rise of auto-immune diseases is at least contributed to by over sanitation. The body's immune system is like an angry militia; if it doesn't have something to fight, it will find something to fight.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: Yeah you can't blame kids for being a bit snotty. My daughter gets colds constantly. Usually it's nothing but last year one of the times came with tonsillitis. What am I going to do, just not take her to the docs?
This is partly our own fault for being too hygienic. People can't deal with germs and diseases anymore because they over sanitise everything.
That’s true. Back in the age of cholera, consumption, the grip, Polio and the plague, people lived so much longer due to the lack of sanitation.
The world doesn't work in black and white. You're better than making arguments like it does.
I’ll just say that two of my dad’s brothers died of disease as children and my MiL has been in a wheelchair most of her life because she got polio as a child. I am wary of the idea that protecting kids from contagion is a harmful practice, and exposing them makes them stronger.
I’ll just say that two of my dad’s brothers died of disease as children and my MiL has been in a wheelchair most of her life because she got polio as a child. I am wary of the idea that protecting kids from contagion is a harmful practice, and exposing them makes them stronger.
Does it really make them stronger, or is it just the unfortunates that weren’t sufficiently ‘strong’ instead just tended to sadly die?
I mean, there is something to be said about not fearing germs too much and that kids do need their immune system tested as kids...
But not throwing them to the wolves of very bad diseases is kinda......expected TBH
My local Supermarket was fully stocked with Toilet Paper when I went in today, but Value and bulk Rice is sold out and I saw a few shoppers doing multiple buys of paracetamol.....
People have been queing early to make sure they are first in line when hand sanitiser is restocked too.
I'm really not sure how they will behave if we get to an epidemic level of Coronvirus.
I’ll just say that two of my dad’s brothers died of disease as children and my MiL has been in a wheelchair most of her life because she got polio as a child. I am wary of the idea that protecting kids from contagion is a harmful practice, and exposing them makes them stronger.
This highlights the reality that WHICH diseases children (and people) are protected from matters quite a lot. People who feel that any amount of exposure is appropriate are falling victim to black and white thinking as well. US culture is particularly bad about encouraging that, especially these days.
I’ll just say that two of my dad’s brothers died of disease as children and my MiL has been in a wheelchair most of her life because she got polio as a child. I am wary of the idea that protecting kids from contagion is a harmful practice, and exposing them makes them stronger.
Does it really make them stronger, or is it just the unfortunates that weren’t sufficiently ‘strong’ instead just tended to sadly die?
Yeah, most people fight off the flu at least once a year and have multiple colds every year. We immunize (i.e. expose ourselves to weakened diseases) people for everything we can. Our immune systems get plenty of action, and there's plenty of stuff we don't even notice that our systems deal with routinely. Living in healthy conditions with good nutrition is a far better means of fighting off infection than living in squalid conditions to 'exercise' your immune system. Having to fight off serious conditions leads to real bodily damage and impairs your ability to fight the next infection.
Happy to report our supermarket had plenty of TP. We got 3 big packs cuz they had a buy 3 sale. So now we got enough for a few months. The hand wipes and sanitzer section was completely bare though.
lord_blackfang wrote: 8 cases confirmed in Slovenia so far, all of them people going YOLO and knowingly travelling to/through hotspots, 3 of them doctors. One of them came from Italy and went straight to work, came into contact with 40 patients, his entire hospital is shut down now. We have nothing to fear but the sheer stupidity of humans
The thread cant have it both ways. We have had ten pages of accusations of 'alarmists' and 'scaremongering' so it is to be expected for people to YOLO. Most of Dakka knew no better, just watch people pretend they didnt have their prior positions in the next few days as the truth sinks in.
Does everyone get it yet. COVID-19is a problem, and no, that is not scaremongering.
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Kilkrazy wrote: I was amused to read a comment from a Mumsnet post which said something like "I'm a prepper so I bought loads of TP."
No you're not. If you really were a prepper you wouldn't need to buy anything because the apocalypse you were supposedly preparing for has now arrived and you're ready.
Fortunately there is still gin.
Yes and no. There are different levels of prepper. Very very few people can prep for anything (we can count out zombies etc, just the masin threats in 'everything'). It takes a lot of resources and locational requirements to begin this. Then those who can be relatively well prepped cant buy in everything. However those preppers will have few needs to rush buy. I dont consider myself a traditional prepper, more like a limited prepper so I got 'caught out' with hand sanitiser, but I had toilet roll, and also I was clued up enough to recognise the trends as they occured so I got extra toilet roll and some hand sanitiser.
Let us take a look at COVID-19 prepping in the UK so far: hand sanitiser, toilet roll and baked beans. I would have called only one of those three. However I have some good general prepping.
Yes the woman in Mumsnet is a prepper, as 1) she managed to actually get the toilet paper 2) she is aware of the issue. Some people aren't even aware enough to become panic buyers, and most panic buyers failed to aquire stocks.
I have been a prepper now for about 18 months, and I do not feel vindicated. As I mentioned on the UK prepper topic The conscientious prepper desires to be proven wrong. Sadly I was not.
I’ll just say that two of my dad’s brothers died of disease as children and my MiL has been in a wheelchair most of her life because she got polio as a child. I am wary of the idea that protecting kids from contagion is a harmful practice, and exposing them makes them stronger.
No one is proposing exposing people to diseases. That's what vaccinations are for. But when everything you touch from the moment you're born is completely sterile, and stays that way, when you do come into contact with bacteria and viruses, the body doesn't know what to do, as mentioned above.
And I don't think anyone is proposing living in squalor either, just use common sense. You don't need to bleach your kitchen tops every day, or your bath tubs. I don't think hand sanitizers are even necessary save for places like communal or public kitchens etc. Just practice good cleanliness, hand washing etc.
That's why I believe the common cold is important in a way. I believe it keeps your immune system on point, although there are people who dispute this.
I’ll just say that two of my dad’s brothers died of disease as children and my MiL has been in a wheelchair most of her life because she got polio as a child. I am wary of the idea that protecting kids from contagion is a harmful practice, and exposing them makes them stronger.
There's a lot of grey area between Middle Age (lack of) hygiëne and the current trend of overprotection and oversanitation.
I’ll just say that two of my dad’s brothers died of disease as children and my MiL has been in a wheelchair most of her life because she got polio as a child. I am wary of the idea that protecting kids from contagion is a harmful practice, and exposing them makes them stronger.
No one is proposing exposing people to diseases. That's what vaccinations are for. But when everything you touch from the moment you're born is completely sterile, and stays that way, when you do come into contact with bacteria and viruses, the body doesn't know what to do, as mentioned above.
And I don't think anyone is proposing living in squalor either, just use common sense. You don't need to bleach your kitchen tops every day, or your bath tubs. I don't think hand sanitizers are even necessary save for places like communal or public kitchens etc. Just practice good cleanliness, hand washing etc.
That's why I believe the common cold is important in a way. I believe it keeps your immune system on point, although there are people who dispute this.
Don't forget public toilets. No way I'm leaving those without washing my hands with soap first.
More men are washing their hands in public toilets, i noticed. It's amazing how fear of pestilence can make even the most hardline "hygiene is for the effeminate" Manly Junkhandler change his ways.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: You can tell ahead of time which specific bacteria and viruses you are being exposed to?
Hm, nevermind. I'm not successfully communicating what I'm trying to.
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timetowaste85 wrote: Were the sinks broken? I mean...people pee in those things.
Urine IS sterile (for the record, pretty sure he means "public toilet" as in "public toilet facilities" and hands being washed in sinks, but I suspect you are aware)
Love it, that they actually think that will help is better, masks are pointless, they would be better with a bar of soap, that plastic box on head is likea incubator. Also concerned she may suffocate.
Waitrose was out of TP on Thursday and again on Friday. They had it on Saturday, but low stocks. Aldi was out on Saturday.
No-one anywhere had sanitiser, though it didn't matter as I always have a few small bottles of that in my first aid kits. However, as others have said, good hygiene with ordinary soap and hot water is the best defence. I bought four packs of paracetamol and ibuprofen. We've now got enough for both of us to self-isolate and take analgesics for a fortnight if it was necessary.
Fresh groceries were in good supply everywhere, and fresh meat and fish. Tinned stuff was noticeably thinned out, but still easily available. We bought some extra tins of soup and various veg. We also bought a few more frozen items than usual.
Eggs were nearly out of stock, but got a box of 15 which will last us nearly two weeks. My wife eats an egg everyday. I only eat them at the weekend.
All the above shows there is no problem in the supply chain. The problem is panic buying in the shops. Waitrose and Tesco have announced rationing on various linies.
I don't consider myself a prepper. I think it's fairly normal to have a couple of weeks' worth of non-perishable items (including flour, lentils, rice, and pasta) and semi-perishable (onions, potatoes, swedes) in the cellar, also household stuff like soap, bleach and the like.
I've never bothered with Hand sanitizer. I do have several small bottles around but I don't know how old they are. My mom uses it on her hands when eating at restaurants prior to eating. I've always thought she was a bit of a clean freak. I wash my hands several times a day, mostly because of working outside and with animals, chickens, goats and rabbets. I think one thing I should do that I don't do enough is wash or wipe down thing that I touch frequently. Mouse and Keyboard, glasses, phone, door handles.
I only seem to get sick every other year for about 3 days. Usually after going out to a game shop where some, insert derogatory term of your choice here, Has come back into the shop just after getting over what ever affliction they just got over. Sure they're "not sick anymore" but they still spread that what ever it is. Just something to think about, maybe give your self a few days after getting well before going back out to roll dice.
I do think being so far away from people had both hurt and helped my health. I am not exposed to the cloud of pestilence those plague carriers are dragging around, which is nice but it does mean it has hit me harder when it happens.
We don't consider ourselves preppers really we just keep a lot of stuff on hand because of the reality of hurricanes and extended power outages.
I don't think there is any shame in having 30 to 60 days worth of food on hand, you gotta eat. Oh, and if you do decide to "prepp" and really stock up don't just go out and buy rice and beans if you don't eat those very much or don't like them or just don't know how to cook them. Buy food you will actually eat. I like beans some time and have had a difficult time with dried beans until this year, turns out there is such a thing as beans that are too old. But dad gave us a rice cooker for Christmas and it is amazing and will cook dried beans without a presoak in about 2 to 3 hours. something to look into if your going the dried beans rout.
I really wish original formula ripped fuel was still on the market, for medicinal purposes. (Much like a bottle of Jagermeister. )
Hand sanitiser needs to have a very high alcohol content to be effective anyway, is what I have read. Soap and water is better (though obviously sanitiser is better than nothing).
My school is closed for a week now, as there was a case. Apparently the person is doing okay.
Waiitng to see if I have to teach through video conferencing or what.
I've heard that the unit I live on has had 3 cases! but nothing else, so thats nice ha.
I'm trying to stay pretty laissez faire about the whole thing. I dont really think its going to take me out if I catch it, I'm strong and healthy with no underlying issues, as is my Wife and daughter. my Wife is pregnant but apparently the virus is not really dangerous to pregnant women or even newborns.. So I'm not worried.
I'm more worried for my granparents. my grandad has lots of general age related health issues. but then he himself sometimes admits that he thinks it'll be his time soon, so maybe he wont be worried either.. I cant say.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: I've heard that the unit I live on has had 3 cases! but nothing else, so thats nice ha.
I'm trying to stay pretty laissez faire about the whole thing. I dont really think its going to take me out if I catch it, I'm strong and healthy with no underlying issues, as is my Wife and daughter. my Wife is pregnant but apparently the virus is not really dangerous to pregnant women or even newborns.. So I'm not worried.
I'm more worried for my granparents. my grandad has lots of general age related health issues. but then he himself sometimes admits that he thinks it'll be his time soon, so maybe he wont be worried either.. I cant say.
Your right to be cautious in regards the elderly as it is they who are at the greatest risk from the virus, especially if it causes them to get pneumonia, fortunately your wife and child are almost guaranteed to be fine as is yourself.
Remember though even if the elderly catch it roughly 7 out of 8 will recover with current statistics implying 13 -15 % of over 80's are likely to die. But in the western world at the moment these statistics as far as I can tell are perhaps less.
lord_blackfang wrote: 8 cases confirmed in Slovenia so far, all of them people going YOLO and knowingly travelling to/through hotspots, 3 of them doctors. One of them came from Italy and went straight to work, came into contact with 40 patients, his entire hospital is shut down now. We have nothing to fear but the sheer stupidity of humans
The thread cant have it both ways. We have had ten pages of accusations of 'alarmists' and 'scaremongering' so it is to be expected for people to YOLO. Most of Dakka knew no better, just watch people pretend they didnt have their prior positions in the next few days as the truth sinks in.
Does everyone get it yet. COVID-19is a problem, and no, that is not scaremongering.
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Kilkrazy wrote: I was amused to read a comment from a Mumsnet post which said something like "I'm a prepper so I bought loads of TP."
No you're not. If you really were a prepper you wouldn't need to buy anything because the apocalypse you were supposedly preparing for has now arrived and you're ready.
Fortunately there is still gin.
Yes and no. There are different levels of prepper. Very very few people can prep for anything (we can count out zombies etc, just the masin threats in 'everything'). It takes a lot of resources and locational requirements to begin this. Then those who can be relatively well prepped cant buy in everything. However those preppers will have few needs to rush buy. I dont consider myself a traditional prepper, more like a limited prepper so I got 'caught out' with hand sanitiser, but I had toilet roll, and also I was clued up enough to recognise the trends as they occured so I got extra toilet roll and some hand sanitiser.
Let us take a look at COVID-19 prepping in the UK so far: hand sanitiser, toilet roll and baked beans. I would have called only one of those three. However I have some good general prepping.
Yes the woman in Mumsnet is a prepper, as 1) she managed to actually get the toilet paper 2) she is aware of the issue. Some people aren't even aware enough to become panic buyers, and most panic buyers failed to aquire stocks.
I have been a prepper now for about 18 months, and I do not feel vindicated. As I mentioned on the UK prepper topic The conscientious prepper desires to be proven wrong. Sadly I was not.
I do feel the mainstream media are blowing the whole thing a tad out of proportion. Yes, COVID-19 is a problem, but the current draconic anti-virus measures that are currently being taken are purely due to the fact that COVID-19 is so fething contagious, not because it's so deadly. Authorities want to prevent the essential infrastructure of the world (food, energy, medical care, police etc.) from temporarily collapsing because everyone is sick at home. If COVID-19 would've had a R0 (how many people someone who carries COVID-19 infects on average) of 1 or less no one would've given a gak about it with it's current mortality rate. The problem is that COVID-19's R0 is about 2.5-4.0 I believe, meaning that there's a realistic chance essential infrastructure collapses for a time if the virus is given free reign. If you are a healthy person under 60, you do NOT have to worry abouit COVID-19 posing a serious health risk to you. I feel the mainstream media are failing to bring this point across well enough, although maybe they're doing it to prevent people from becoming complacent. Yes, it's good to be careful and pay extra attention to hygiëne but panicking is not neccessary. Things like panic buying (and panicking in general) and hoarding are only counterproductive right now.
Personally I'm much more stressed out by the impact on my personal life of the potential anti-virus measures (In the Netherlands the reaction has been surprisingly level-headed up till now) could have than that I'm afraid of the virus itself (I'm a healthy person in his early 30s so I don't see why I would end up in a hospital or even die) and I feel that that isn't taken into account enough in the response to COVID-19. Everyone is yapping on about mortality rates (quite unimpressive) and economic damage (why should I care if stock markets lose $1000 billion in illusory money) but no one talks about the psychological impact of completely isolating yourself from the rest of the world for 2 weeks (even having to isolate yourself from your spouse and children living in the same house) if you've caught COVID-19 or having to think "should I wash my hands after this?" after every single thing that you do.
I do feel the mainstream media are blowing the whole thing a tad out of proportion. Yes, COVID-19 is a problem, but the current draconic anti-virus measures that are currently being taken are purely due to the fact that COVID-19 is so fething contagious, not because it's so deadly. Authorities want to prevent the essential infrastructure of the world (food, energy, medical care, police etc.) from temporarily collapsing because everyone is sick at home. If COVID-19 would've had a R0 (how many people someone who carries COVID-19 infects on average) of 1 or less no one would've given a gak about it with it's current mortality rate. The problem is that COVID-19's R0 is about 2.5-4.0 I believe, meaning that there's a realistic chance essential infrastructure collapses for a time if the virus is given free reign.
It is not only the R0 which is a problem, but the fact that you can be reinfected shortly after the virus has already run its course and likely remain infectious throughout, the long incubation period (which is a major factor of the R0, but also of containment logistics), and that the virus appears to be mutating rapidly.
If you are a healthy person under 60, you do NOT have to worry abouit COVID-19 posing a serious health risk to you. I feel the mainstream media are failing to bring this point across well enough, although maybe they're doing it to prevent people from becoming complacent. Yes, it's good to be careful and pay extra attention to hygiëne but panicking is not neccessary. Things like panic buying (and panicking in general) and hoarding are only counterproductive right now.
While this is not what you are currently thinking it means, I will say that up front to be fair to you. However what your comment actual reads is, "I'm alright Jack, if it wont kill me it's not a problem". Sorry this is wrong. It might not kill a young healthy person, but it will kill a lot of people who are not. It will disproportionately effect the elderly, those with underlying health conditions, the homeless and the destitute. I have no sources on how this effects infants, and pregnant or nursing mothers. I will grant you the benefit of the doubt in acknowledging those people do actually matter.
Personally I'm much more stressed out by the impact on my personal life of the potential anti-virus measures (In the Netherlands the reaction has been surprisingly level-headed up till now) could have than that I'm afraid of the virus itself (I'm a healthy person in his early 30s so I don't see why I would end up in a hospital or even die) and I feel that that isn't taken into account enough in the response to COVID-19.
I hope I haven't given you too much credit in my preceding comment. Please tell us you are not a complete monsterous selfish c-word who doesn't care who dies so long as he doesn't have his life inconvenienced. You are unlikely to out yourself this easily if you were.
No, I think you haven't grasped how horrible the situation is because you can't face how horrible it is quite just yet, but underneath you are a decent enough guy who will realise that it can be a serious life-threat to a lot of other people, and some things have to change to minimise risk to them..
Everyone is yapping on about mortality rates (quite unimpressive) and economic damage (why should I care if stock markets lose $1000 billion in illusory money)
Agree with you on the stock market aspect. Those feths need to get real. As for mortality rates, we have conflicting data, which points towards multiple strains of the bug. Though with the press being what it is, I would be slow to confirm anything without professional bodies pointing the way.
but no one talks about the psychological impact of completely isolating yourself from the rest of the world for 2 weeks (even having to isolate yourself from your spouse and children living in the same house) if you've caught COVID-19 or having to think "should I wash my hands after this?" after every single thing that you do.
Ultimately that is first world problems level of issue. If you catch it, report it and self isolate, have a bad fortnight then carry on life. This much is true for the majority, and there is no cause for panic, only precaution. Even if you are sickly or elderly or both, your chances are still good, especially with western medicine.
That being said...
To be aware of occasional plagues is something modern Africans just have to live with, it doesn't effect us in Europe and America. Instead its something we see on social media or on TV as something that only happens over there. We read that some brown people died of ebola, then turn to the sports news with greater attention. Now it is at our door. There are runs on the shops, there are some deaths in our own hospitals and large scale quarantine of civilised places. Hopefully this rude awakening will be a silver lining to the cloud of infection: We have no inherent right to greater security from forces of nature than the average African, we merely assume we do.
Our ancestors faced far worse, so I am sure once we de-snowflake we will rise to the challenge.
It is easy to dismiss the market losses, unless you happen to rely on funds from a 401k in your retirement, or depend on it to be able to retire in the near future. Many pension plans rely on investment returns too.
It ain't just 'rich' folks who are gonna get bit by this.
CptJake wrote: It is easy to dismiss the market losses, unless you happen to rely on funds from a 401k in your retirement, or depend on it to be able to retire in the near future. Many pension plans rely on investment returns too.
It ain't just 'rich' folks who are gonna get bit by this.
Ok. I accept that. However its the rich swapping around their funds like a guy walking on hot coals that fuel that problem. Coronavirus will hit certain industries hard. Shares in cruise lines are going to fall, but the stocks that people rely on should hold, however they possibly wont because of greedy c-words and their 'market panic'.
Is there any connexion between oil price drop and Coronavirus? I can't see one. Tourism and travel companies will be hurt badly, businesses surrounding mass venues like sports teams may also be harmed, but I don't see how oil prices are a relevant factor.
Anyone explain this one to me please?
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Kilkrazy wrote: In normal times a fall in the price of oil would be good news for everyone else, thanks to cheaper fuel and power reducing prices across the board.
Not sure that is actually the case, especially from a UK perspective.
If oil prices drop prices at the pump stay the same, however when price normalises back to what it was that is a de facto current price rise, so pump price also goes up.
Kilkrazy wrote: In normal times a fall in the price of oil would be good news for everyone else, thanks to cheaper fuel and power reducing prices across the board.
Until you get laid off because your company needs to lay off people as their exports to countries depending on oil price went down the pummel.
Virus is definitely blown out of proportion. It is just as dangerous as seasonal flu on steroids. Nothing too special. Furthermore, we do not know anything about it, not even its death rate. It is very likely that there are many cases of Corona virus which symptoms are mild and go unnoticed, but that is not reflected in statistics.
Here is predicted deadliness of this disease:
Spoiler:
There are far worse diseases which I would be afraid to get sick like polio.
The problem with coronavirus is the combination of two of its primary elements, namely (i) the high contagion level, and (ii) the relatively high (about 2.5%) mortality rate.
It won't be the end of the world if 2.5% of the population die. But that's a good hundred and fifty million or so people dead if it has free reign across the globe. To put it into perspective, that's roughly double the WW2 death statistic.
No, I'm sure a lot of us have an elderly loved one who won't be around anymore if this thing succeeds in breaking loose. That's what they're fighting to prevent. Not a temporary dip in economic activity or to stop people getting ill with it generally. It's because we all have a parent/granny somewhere who probably won't make it through if quarantine fails.
Ketara wrote: The problem with coronavirus is the combination of two of its primary elements, namely (i) the high contagion level, and (ii) the relatively high (about 2.5%) mortality rate.
It won't be the end of the world if 2.5% of the population die. But that's a good hundred and fifty million or so people dead if it has free reign across the globe. To put it into perspective, that's roughly double the WW2 death statistic.
No, I'm sure a lot of us have an elderly loved one who won't be around anymore if this thing succeeds in breaking loose. That's what they're fighting to prevent. Not a temporary dip in economic activity or to stop people getting ill with it generally. It's because we all have a parent/granny somewhere who probably won't make it through if quarantine fails.
Exactly, good point although many of us should be fine ,we all know elderly or infirm people, even if you don't I would like to think we had a shred of deceny and were more concerned for them than poor me and my 2 week isolation, or even petrol prices (which are falling due to less flights and opec not reducing output thus excess oil on market) and lack of toilet roll.
I work in a high dependency unit and although not seen any coronvirus yet seeing anyone in respiratory distress is not something to be dismissed lightly.
The issue is that this is a new disease and very contagious, so people who need acute treatment will be in trouble if we do not slow the spread and the hospitals are overwhelmed with too many patients at once.
It looks likely that most people who are susceptible will get it, but we want to space that out so that all the acute cases get the care they need. For most healthy people, it will be a bad week or two, but for a significant chunk it is more serious.
Being blase about it because you are in a low risk group is a bit selfish in my opinion. We are careful on behalf of others.
China is sufficiently good at locking up and oppressing people on a scale of millions at a time that I don't doubt they'll get a grip on it (it looks like they might have done already). Meanwhile, Italy, South Korea, Japan, and the like all have first world health care systems and infrastructure. They too will likely get a handle on it.
No, what worries me is Iran. Their first response was to ignore it. Their second was to lie and try to cover it up. And now that sufficient people are ill for that to no longer be a viable strategy, they seem to be at a bit of a loss. But if it gets out into the muslim pilgrim trails, you'll see it ricochet around the Middle-East like wildfire. Places like Libya and Syria have no functioning healthcare at all, and even those like Iraq and Egypt are hardly equipped to fight it. If it takes the Middle-East by storm, it'll cover Africa within a month. Where there is no healthcare worth a damn.
And then? You can't keep a quarantine on the entire continent of Africa and the Middle East. It will slip through over and over again until it gradually takes the rest of the world.
On top of which, if you think the crisis at Europe's borders is bad now; wait until they're all carrying coronavirus. It'll get brutal. There's enough trouble keeping a united European response right now without the added fear of migrants carrying something fatal to most old people. The Visegrad bloc will seal their borders and to hell with what the EU says. Over the pond, Trump's already said what he thinks of people from that part of the world. When they're provably carrying disease? Just watch those airport checks get impossible.
Iran will be the making or breaking point. Which is an awful thing to contemplate, given what I know of their government's competence.
There has been a confirmed case in my area. At a GAA club, which spread to a nearby bar too. I know it’s only a matter of time before I get it. Again, I’m not worried about myself, but I am worried about spreading it around.
It’s my gran I’m especially worried about. She’s nearly 90, and although she’s proven pretty robust so far, it’s not a chance I want her to take. And as it’s not even three months since grandad died I’m not emotionally prepared to go to another funeral of a family member.
Only thing is, I’ve just finished a painting for her, and I’m worried about it being a transmitter for this bastard virus. Might have to sit on it for a while.
Does Iran's response from now going forward actually matter? We already have cases in over a hundred countries and its apparently been in the states for weeks now.
Future War Cultist wrote: There has been a confirmed case in my area. At a GAA club, which spread to a nearby bar too. I know it’s only a matter of time before I get it. Again, I’m not worried about myself, but I am worried about spreading it around.
It’s my gran I’m especially worried about. She’s nearly 90, and although she’s proven pretty robust so far, it’s not a chance I want her to take. And as it’s not even three months since grandad died I’m not emotionally prepared to go to another funeral of a family member.
Only thing is, I’ve just finished a painting for her, and I’m worried about it being a transmitter for this bastard virus. Might have to sit on it for a while.
My uncle died just about a year ago from pneumonia due to a bug he caught on a cruise ship - it was very sudden and unexpected, and while I know it's not the same bug following this has been very eery. I don't worry so much for my mom, but she's the youngest of a lot of siblings and she's been very anxious about her brothers' health in light of all this.
Ernestas wrote: Virus is definitely blown out of proportion. It is just as dangerous as seasonal flu on steroids. Nothing too special. Furthermore, we do not know anything about it, not even its death rate. It is very likely that there are many cases of Corona virus which symptoms are mild and go unnoticed, but that is not reflected in statistics.
Here is predicted deadliness of this disease:
Spoiler:
There are far worse diseases which I would be afraid to get sick like polio.
The fact that you're posting a chart showing it edging up on Spanish Flu, and you're dismissing it as no big deal is a demonstration of either ignorance or a deeply considered contempt for millions of deaths.
Captain Joystick wrote: Does Iran's response from now going forward actually matter? We already have cases in over a hundred countries and its apparently been in the states for weeks now.
It's the difference between having unknown millions of cases spanning continents and a few thousand cases in a few dozen countries under close control.
Britain and America are reasonably fortunate in that they are separated by sea from a lot of this. It makes it much easier to institute controls at the designated border points. Italy is already a leaky bucket because of Schengen. You can literally walk over the border in some places and take it with you.
But if Italy is a leaky bucket, Iran will be one with no bottom if it gets going. Coronavirus will cover the Middle-East and Africa, and from there? It'll be impossible to eradicate. We'll be able to slow it, but it will cross every border in time and infect every population en masse. We'll still be fighting it and losing two years from now. A lot of people will die and a lot of borders will see increasingly hysterical and inhumane reactions as every migrant or refugee becomes an infection risk.
It is likely that we will be fighting coronavirus for the foreseeable future. However a vaccine is on the way that will make it a lot easier. Some of my friends work with the Welcome trust and apparently work is progressing at a ferocious clip on the vaccine.
It is also very likely that the virus will evolve over time to become less virulent, that is usually what happens and there is no advantage to it becoming more virulent.
Now the truth of the effects of this virus and the threat it poses have been properly exposed to western culture; you must now pick ONE of TWO options only:
1. I am broadly healthy and wont die if I get Coronavirus, so this is all 'scaremongering' and 'overreaction' that threatens to inconvenience my schedule. How dare you!!! Lets all just shut up about it and carry on as normal as possible. It don't like getting my life inconvenienced just to save some elderly people because I am a selfish c-word.
2. I may or not be broadly healthy, and Coronavirus may or may not be a risk to me. But it is certainly a risk to many people in my community. We must act firmly and rationally to ensure that vulnerable people are not infected. Yes, statistically speaking numbers of victims are low compared to endemic diseases, but were COVID-19 to become widespread it could be a critical life risk to many millions of people rapidly, threatening to overwhelm public health provision. In countries with poor public health provision or a high spike of infection, large scale human losses are likely. We must prevent that at all costs. This virus has the capability to spread globally and only the most isolated communities are guaranteed to be safe from infection.
Captain Joystick wrote: Does Iran's response from now going forward actually matter? We already have cases in over a hundred countries and its apparently been in the states for weeks now.
It's the difference between having unknown millions of cases spanning continents and a few thousand cases in a few dozen countries under close control.
Britain and America are reasonably fortunate in that they are separated by sea from a lot of this. It makes it much easier to institute controls at the designated border points. Italy is already a leaky bucket because of Schengen. You can literally walk over the border in some places and take it with you.
But if Italy is a leaky bucket, Iran will be one with no bottom if it gets going. Coronavirus will cover the Middle-East and Africa, and from there? It'll be impossible to eradicate. We'll be able to slow it, but it will cross every border in time and infect every population en masse. We'll still be fighting it and losing two years from now. A lot of people will die and a lot of borders will see increasingly hysterical and inhumane reactions as every migrant or refugee becomes an infection risk.
I am far more concerned about inhumane treatment of people at borders than the virus. Xenophobia was bad enough before this started.
Some new studies have shown Zink to be effective at inhibiting the corona virus reproduction cycle in human cells.
Chloroquine, a type of medication used to treat malaria, can increase the level of zink in our cells. They've started using Chloroquine to treat corona patients in china and south korea.
This sounds really promising guys. hopefuly we can use this until we have a working vaccine ready for this b*stard of a virus.
I'll link the studies and some articles for anyone interested in this new development.
Here in Greece, with less than 100 cases reported, the government has ordered all schools closed.... Apparently they fear the children as carriers more than as patients.
konst80hummel wrote: Here in Greece, with less than 100 cases reported, the government has ordered all schools closed.... Apparently they fear the children as carriers more than as patients.
nfe wrote: First UKMP case. Nadine Dorries is infected and has been in Parliament and in No. 10 in the last week.
I suspect as do alot of people that it is much more rife in communities than we think.
It will be interesting to hear how she caught it if we do.
It was the Iranian health minister who caught it first IIRC. I suppose they spend the most time visiting afflicted hospitals and the like due to the position.
You get a statistical aberration. Often single confirmed cases resulting in death and discrepencies from 12-100% fatality rates per nation. Also single cases who survive rare infections are likely misdiagnosed. If you get an outbreak with one confirmed case and 100% fatality how many other people didn't die but were misdiagnosed because nobody was looking for bird flu.
The resulting statistics make it look nastier than Ebola Zaire, I remain sceptical that it is.
I do feel the mainstream media are blowing the whole thing a tad out of proportion. Yes, COVID-19 is a problem, but the current draconic anti-virus measures that are currently being taken are purely due to the fact that COVID-19 is so fething contagious, not because it's so deadly. Authorities want to prevent the essential infrastructure of the world (food, energy, medical care, police etc.) from temporarily collapsing because everyone is sick at home. If COVID-19 would've had a R0 (how many people someone who carries COVID-19 infects on average) of 1 or less no one would've given a gak about it with it's current mortality rate. The problem is that COVID-19's R0 is about 2.5-4.0 I believe, meaning that there's a realistic chance essential infrastructure collapses for a time if the virus is given free reign.
It is not only the R0 which is a problem, but the fact that you can be reinfected shortly after the virus has already run its course and likely remain infectious throughout, the long incubation period (which is a major factor of the R0, but also of containment logistics), and that the virus appears to be mutating rapidly.
If you are a healthy person under 60, you do NOT have to worry abouit COVID-19 posing a serious health risk to you. I feel the mainstream media are failing to bring this point across well enough, although maybe they're doing it to prevent people from becoming complacent. Yes, it's good to be careful and pay extra attention to hygiëne but panicking is not neccessary. Things like panic buying (and panicking in general) and hoarding are only counterproductive right now.
While this is not what you are currently thinking it means, I will say that up front to be fair to you. However what your comment actual reads is, "I'm alright Jack, if it wont kill me it's not a problem". Sorry this is wrong. It might not kill a young healthy person, but it will kill a lot of people who are not. It will disproportionately effect the elderly, those with underlying health conditions, the homeless and the destitute. I have no sources on how this effects infants, and pregnant or nursing mothers. I will grant you the benefit of the doubt in acknowledging those people do actually matter.
Personally I'm much more stressed out by the impact on my personal life of the potential anti-virus measures (In the Netherlands the reaction has been surprisingly level-headed up till now) could have than that I'm afraid of the virus itself (I'm a healthy person in his early 30s so I don't see why I would end up in a hospital or even die) and I feel that that isn't taken into account enough in the response to COVID-19.
I hope I haven't given you too much credit in my preceding comment. Please tell us you are not a complete monsterous selfish c-word who doesn't care who dies so long as he doesn't have his life inconvenienced. You are unlikely to out yourself this easily if you were.
No, I think you haven't grasped how horrible the situation is because you can't face how horrible it is quite just yet, but underneath you are a decent enough guy who will realise that it can be a serious life-threat to a lot of other people, and some things have to change to minimise risk to them..
Everyone is yapping on about mortality rates (quite unimpressive) and economic damage (why should I care if stock markets lose $1000 billion in illusory money)
Agree with you on the stock market aspect. Those feths need to get real. As for mortality rates, we have conflicting data, which points towards multiple strains of the bug. Though with the press being what it is, I would be slow to confirm anything without professional bodies pointing the way.
but no one talks about the psychological impact of completely isolating yourself from the rest of the world for 2 weeks (even having to isolate yourself from your spouse and children living in the same house) if you've caught COVID-19 or having to think "should I wash my hands after this?" after every single thing that you do.
Ultimately that is first world problems level of issue. If you catch it, report it and self isolate, have a bad fortnight then carry on life. This much is true for the majority, and there is no cause for panic, only precaution. Even if you are sickly or elderly or both, your chances are still good, especially with western medicine.
That being said...
To be aware of occasional plagues is something modern Africans just have to live with, it doesn't effect us in Europe and America. Instead its something we see on social media or on TV as something that only happens over there. We read that some brown people died of ebola, then turn to the sports news with greater attention. Now it is at our door. There are runs on the shops, there are some deaths in our own hospitals and large scale quarantine of civilised places. Hopefully this rude awakening will be a silver lining to the cloud of infection: We have no inherent right to greater security from forces of nature than the average African, we merely assume we do.
Our ancestors faced far worse, so I am sure once we de-snowflake we will rise to the challenge.
If you start calling me what I assume is an erect male reproductory organ I have precious little will to continue this discussion with you, but here goes anyway:
You are wildly taking my comments out of context. I do not mean that countermeasures should not be taken, just that in many places authorities do not seem to consider the impact those measures have on people at all. Even acknowledging that it does and trying to help people to get through it would mean a lot. You can be the tough guy all you want but being isolated from the rest of the world for two weeks will have an impact on you. Even more so if you have a family and your own fething wife and children aren't even allowed to see you. And with the direction gak is going in now you can't go to the pub to unwind and be happy for a bit afterwards because the pub's going to be closed due to infection risk. And no one has any estimate about for how long these countermeasures are going to remain in place. Italy has already seen prison riots leading to 6 deaths over the lockdown because inmates were not allowed to see their family anymore. Yes I know, inmates aren't the most mentally stable people in the world but it is a warning about what is to come when normal people reach their psychological breaking point. Humans aren't made for social distancing. Take it too far for too long and there will be riots or even worse.
Fortunately bird flu was the disease that never was,
the virus mutated enough to jump from its normal host (birds) to humans and was pretty nasty for those that caught it,
but it failed to mutate enough to easily transmit from human to human (something that would have been fairly simple, either through mutation which happens every time flu reproduces, one of the reasons we have to redo the vaccines every year, or through somebody being infected with a human flu strain at the same time and the two related viruses hybridizing)
If you start calling me what I assume is an erect male reproductory organ I have precious little will to continue this discussion with you, but here goes anyway:
I was giving you as much benefit of the doubt as possible, and will break the illusion without being overly unkind.
You are wildly taking my comments out of context. I do not mean that countermeasures should not be taken, just that in many places authorities do not seem to consider the impact those measures have on people at all.
Sadly, I am not taking your comments out of context. I read your context and it is remarkably small minded, I think this is due to denial because the mounting reality of a pandemic is the diametric opposite of the casual lifestyle most people in western society are used to. The virus is also an unseen enemy and few people can actively confirm they are not infected due to the long incubation. You might not be thinking this, but your sub-conscious will be. Worriting over losing minor conveniences in a major crisis is a sign of greater shock, grief and disbelief, not moral deficiency on your part.
Even acknowledging that it does and trying to help people to get through it would mean a lot. You can be the tough guy all you want but being isolated from the rest of the world for two weeks will have an impact on you. Even more so if you have a family and your own fething wife and children aren't even allowed to see you.
I am not being a internet tough guy when I say man up. Two weeks isolation is a minor inconvenience.. There are lonely people who have this as their life, or suffer this because the are immobilised by illness. In the case of self isolation people are just getting on with it, and most are not complaining. It is a small sacrifice for the common good.
And with the direction gak is going in now you can't go to the pub to unwind and be happy for a bit afterwards because the pub's going to be closed due to infection risk.
First world problems. Seriously. First world problems.
You are not: in an iron lung, in prison, paralysed, bed bound, patroling the jungle, stuck in trench in Afghanistan, in the Gaza strip during lockdown, or anywhere in North Korea.
My father has been bed bound for eighteen months. He can also get very lonely being in bed all day every day. I am sure he would like to go to the pub too.
If being unable to get to the pub because of Coronavirus is the worst it gets for you, rejoice! Let me thoroughly bless you by hoping it gets no worse for you than that!
And no one has any estimate about for how long these countermeasures are going to remain in place. Italy has already seen prison riots leading to 6 deaths over the lockdown because inmates were not allowed to see their family anymore.
Prisons are full of douches. However even so I bet the majority of the prison population in Italy will understand. Likely it was just an excuse for a riot and an everyday part of prison politics. No family visits can be hard but internal lockdowns are worse, and extended lockdowns are a part of life in many prisons.
Yes I know, inmates aren't the most mentally stable people in the world but it is a warning about what is to come when normal people reach their psychological breaking point. Humans aren't made for social distancing. Take it too far for too long and there will be riots or even worse.
[tough love]
Humans take to social distancing at lot easier than you suspect. You will too. People are doing their 14 day self quarantine without complaint for the most part. There are some whingers, but there always will be. You need some perspective on the costs involved.
Our current generation in the west has it easy. So it's easy to deceive yourself into thinking minor issues like a 14 day quarantine are a major disruption and a danger to psychological health. Most people outside the golden billion would find 14 days trapped in a room with an average westerners personal resources at their disposal would be the best days of their lives, a true luxury.
Sorry please de-snowflake, for your own good.
Now I would return much sympathy to you if you are on the gig economy and if you don't work you don't eat. I hope governments do more for jobseekers and gig economy workers in this time. You haven't mentioned this as a factor though, so I doubt it applies to you as you would have thought about it. Instead you worry about not being able to unwind at the pub. Sorry that is an inconvenience for you, and will go as far as to say you have done nothing to deserve it. But its a major case of first world problems and you need some perspective.
No I don't think you are a p-word. You are a modern western citizen used to easy living in a mostly safe society. You are on Dakka because you can afford an expensive hobby, one way or another. You have had it easy, but now its like 1939 with storm clouds are on the horizon. You are not promised perpetual good times by anyone with the power to grant you them. Chin up, it will be alright. You just have to recognise things aren't going to be the same, for a while at least.
She appears to have held a constituency surgery and attended cabinet after feeling unwell.
Interesting to see how the budget deals with economic fallout. Banks are beginning to offer mortgage holidays, hopefully we get provisions for renters and, especially, hourly paid and gig economy workers. Nothing undermines isolation more than needing to work.
With greatest deference anyone who is not prepared to do 2 weeks quarantine for the potential benefit of at risk people are selfish and when / if they are to contract something be it when they are more at risk I would remind them of their opinions they used to have. Also as with any virus there are always fit and healthy people who still unfortunately die from these. Flu does kill young and healthy people albeit rarely.
Think 2 week concentrated modelling ,that army could be finished.
Meanwhile, people flying into the UK from Italy are being told to self isolate immediately but are given no transport home - and many are being landed in airports other than the ones they were originally meant to, so long public transport journeys in many cases).
I'm hearing E3 got cancelled or has an impending cancellation announcement, which in a way is not much of a surprise. I expect if the hysteria continues san diego comic con might be next. I'm not too worried about it, more worried about certain family members. I don't spend enough time in public to be at much risk tbh.
On the up-side, at least stocking up food for a few weeks is easier when you still have electrical power. Compared to a natural disaster there's a lot more viable food to load up on.
nfe wrote: She appears to have held a constituency surgery and attended cabinet after feeling unwell.
Interesting to see how the budget deals with economic fallout. Banks are beginning to offer mortgage holidays, hopefully we get provisions for renters and, especially, hourly paid and gig economy workers. Nothing undermines isolation more than needing to work.
Jobseekers also. This will be hard on people on universal credit also, as they are expected to travel a bit.
I would like the government to simply turn UC entitlement 'on' for any who step in and out of eligibility, cancel signing on requirements and other procedures for a period of time. New claimants should still be forced to apply normally, as undoubtably there will be a rise in attempted fraud.
A blanket activation of UC entitlement would help gig workers a lot, give them extra money and the cushion to stop temp work in this time.
Most importantly it would help those on work based ESA, and UC equivalentwho are already disabled buy unlike support based ESA claimants do have to engage in the same activities as the unemployed. The disabled are already of critical vulnerability.
Marxist artist wrote: With greatest deference anyone who is not prepared to do 2 weeks quarantine for the potential benefit of at risk people are selfish and when / if they are to contract something be it when they are more at risk I would remind them of their opinions they used to have. Also as with any virus there are always fit and healthy people who still unfortunately die from these. Flu does kill young and healthy people albeit rarely.
Think 2 week concentrated modelling ,that army could be finished.
Absolutely this. I'd love a fortnight's self isolation. I'm almost tempted to fake it. Have some me-time with the modelling / painting / video-gaming / Netflix backlogs...
I suspect italians, having been hit so hard, are much more reasonable about it than our esteemed Lord's shepherds.
Funnily enough, they did cancel some sort of bishop's get-together due to the risk of infection.
konst80hummel wrote: Here in Greece, with less than 100 cases reported, the government has ordered all schools closed.... Apparently they fear the children as carriers more than as patients.
We should always fear the children.
Even those who don’t worship He Who Coughs Behind the Rows.
konst80hummel wrote: Here in Greece, with less than 100 cases reported, the government has ordered all schools closed.... Apparently they fear the children as carriers more than as patients.
We should always fear the children.
Even those who don’t worship He Who Coughs Behind the Rows.
Kids are disease carrying pox walkers anyway. I would rather they be quarantined IN school and leave us adults to get on fighting each other for the last rolls of Toilet Tissue.
What benefits were announced for the self-employed who get coronavirus or have to self-isolate? Simone Tyler
People who are not eligible for sick pay, particularly the self-employed, will be able to claim Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) from day one of "illness" rather than day eight.
Good, no verification sick pay period, ESA will be available for self-isolators even if they end up being clear of the virus. This is at the lower rate of ESA, so its only £73.10 a week, but its a good start.
NinthMusketeer wrote: It's officially a pandemic? That's bad; I've never beaten that game.
Take the medic and dispatcher in your team. Cure one plague early and use the dispatcher to make sure you reach every last cube of that colour and make it extinct. You need to do this rapidly. Now 25% of infection cards are blanks. This will give you the edge to win.
Also build at least three hospitals early to act as transport nexii.
COVID-19 has been a pandemic for about three weeks by most reckonings. Once there were major hotspots in travel hubs outside China it was evident the virus had proliferated globally.
Denmark's shutting down most non-essential stuff, and Sweden's banned public meetings above a certain size as well as loosening the rules for claiming sick days, making it less costly to stay home while ill. We've also had our first death, an elderly man who was already being treated for unrelated illnesses near Stockholm.
Well at least its showing how utterly ill-equipped we are to deal with any kind of fast spreading pathogens... Resident evil makes so much effin sense now.
Meanwhile this is everyone's workplace:
"What shall we do boss? Jimmy got taken away in an ambulance sick and stuff.."
"Mmm... wait and see.. Everybody!! Get back to work no reason to panic.. I.. I mean WE have targets to fulfil for next months mangers brief"
We literly had a guy today get taken home coz he was really unwell.. Nobody is telling anyone anything and its a case of "wait and see.." & "Ohh don't worry its probably not corona"
I mean corona is either a problem or it isint.
If its a problem than we do what needs to be done and enforce full on quarantine etc. And we try and save people..
If its not a problem then why bother with this entire pantomime?
So it seems like its a problem, but nothing is truly being done.. The true face of the zeitgeist is showing its ugly head. Humans are resource, get to work and who cares if you die because economy... Maybe finally more people will get it and some change will happen.
I've got a trip to Prague at the end of April...like 45 days away, hopefully that will still be doable
EDIT: Given that it's already out in the wild, including the city I live in, this seems...extremely counterproductive.
Yep. There are too many known cases (let alone unknown ones) here already, working from major population centers on both coasts. The glaring exception to the travel ban (the UK) also makes it pointless, given they also have known cases, and the US just sent a planeload of potentially infected people back to the UK from the Crown Princess cruise.
The sheer fuzziness of it also baffles me. If someone goes from Spain to Gibraltar to London to the US, is that allowed, or blocked? EU residents that cross at the Channel, and fly out of London?
COVID-19 has been a pandemic for about three weeks by most reckonings. Once there were major hotspots in travel hubs outside China it was evident the virus had proliferated globally.
Yep. WHO waffling about it has been infuriating. The fact that the WHO chief is reprimanding governments about 'alarming levels of inaction' in the same speech he's trying to justify his rationale in not declaring it a pandemic before today (despite any objective criteria) is just self-serving twaddle. He specifically encouraged inaction in the early days when action mattered most.
At the same time, I really want to know where Angela Merkel got her numbers for '70% of Germany could catch the disease'
So it seems like its a problem, but nothing is truly being done.. The true face of the zeitgeist is showing its ugly head. Humans are resource, get to work and who cares if you die because economy... Maybe finally more people will get it and some change will happen.
There are too many closures, shutdowns and cancelled public gatherings for me to take this seriously. There have been several mistakes, but the global reaction is showing the opposite face to me. Health and prevention are more important than going to the work/school location. Inconvenience is better than going out for a beer or going to the latest business conference.
Take the medic and dispatcher in your team. Cure one plague early and use the dispatcher to make sure you reach every last cube of that colour and make it extinct. You need to do this rapidly. Now 25% of infection cards are blanks. This will give you the edge to win.
Also build at least three hospitals early to act as transport nexii.
Disagree.
Don't tunnel vision on wiping out a single color. If you start the game with enough cards of one color that has moderate to low presence, cool, go for it. (The medic is top tier whether you want to play out that strategy or not). Dispatcher doesn't really bring the bang for buck until you have three or more players.
and telling someone to build 3+ hospitals early while also completely eliminating an entire color early is just pie in the sky thinking. Especially when you haven't even brought up the Operations Expert.
Argive wrote: So it seems like its a problem, but nothing is truly being done.. The true face of the zeitgeist is showing its ugly head. Humans are resource, get to work and who cares if you die because economy... Maybe finally more people will get it and some change will happen.
I mean, you say this, but my social media is DROWNING in hate messages from people who are pissed the feth off because they can't go to work (most of them work in the service industry) and don't know how they're going to pay their bills, live their lives etc.
It's one of those situations where as a company you are 100% damned if you damned if you don't. Tell everyone to keep coming to work? You're the bad guy cause you're contributing to the virus' spread. Tell everyone to stay home? You're the bad guy because something like 80% of people live paycheck to paycheck and don't have a month's worth of savings to wait for all this to blow over.
I understand sentiments, but personally I do promote inner strength and good for an entire organism, not individual cells within that organism. This is why I think like I do.
Coronavirus for a healthy, strong organism might not be even week long of sick leave. There are cases where body can just shrug it off with mild or no symptoms at all and this mortality rate is for everyone involved which means that infection is dangerous for underslept, undernourished individuals with weak immune systems and is just free holidays people who exercise and are healthy. Some people can spread it even without knowing, others do spread it in order to share their misery upon others. I had read cases where people went out of their way to specifically infect as many people as possible. There is already preparation for panic as people buyed out various medical supplies and malls had stacked their inventories with dry food like rice, because people are already preparing for it. We have 1 registered case of coronavirus in Lithuania, person had failed to infect anyone else before she was isolated. Though, I imagine if this virus would begin spreading freely in Lithuania, our government will issue shutdown of a nation. At least my company is very concerned about it and there is no doubt that I'm threatened to have several weeks of home work which equals holidays for me. Oh, what I'm going to do? With computer, internet, tons of books and various models in need of assembling and painting?
People are right to worry about infirm, old and already sick. I'm not worried about my own grandmother, because she is already isolated in her own house. If worse comes, people will merely isolate themselves out in their homes with various dry foods. Economic shutdown for few weeks is the worst that we will have to endure. It is similar situation now and in Italy.
She got it from the Robert Koch Institute, which is the public health institute for Germany. I would presume it is based on risk modelling, which is important for logistical planning and all similar institutes such as the CDC in America would do similar modelling.
The number she actually said was 60-70% of Germans. This would not be unusual for a highly contagious disease for which there is no vaccine.
But yeah, continue to hate on Merkel for whatever reason. Says more about ye than her.
To be fair several (independent) European health bodies have been talking about 60-80% potential infections, though also making clear that's a worst case and they'd expect it to be lower.
I guess they're probably all watching the same kids channel?
Argive wrote: So it seems like its a problem, but nothing is truly being done.. The true face of the zeitgeist is showing its ugly head. Humans are resource, get to work and who cares if you die because economy... Maybe finally more people will get it and some change will happen.
I mean, you say this, but my social media is DROWNING in hate messages from people who are pissed the feth off because they can't go to work (most of them work in the service industry) and don't know how they're going to pay their bills, live their lives etc.
It's one of those situations where as a company you are 100% damned if you damned if you don't. Tell everyone to keep coming to work? You're the bad guy cause you're contributing to the virus' spread. Tell everyone to stay home? You're the bad guy because something like 80% of people live paycheck to paycheck and don't have a month's worth of savings to wait for all this to blow over.
Switzerland has closed off 9 smaller border checkpoints to italy (highly rare)
Ticino is in emergency state.
Federal government plans on mobilizing the medicinial parts of the army.
Homeoffice it is for everyone possible.
I've got a trip to Prague at the end of April...like 45 days away, hopefully that will still be doable
EDIT: Given that it's already out in the wild, including the city I live in, this seems...extremely counterproductive.
US citizens and green card holders are not affected ATM if I understand correctly.
On my end my school here in Cairo initially said online only starting next week, then people threw fits so we're at alternate days, 1 day online, 1 day in class.
Da Boss wrote: She got it from the Robert Koch Institute, which is the public health institute for Germany. I would presume it is based on risk modelling, which is important for logistical planning and all similar institutes such as the CDC in America would do similar modelling.
The number she actually said was 60-70% of Germans. This would not be unusual for a highly contagious disease for which there is no vaccine.
But yeah, continue to hate on Merkel for whatever reason. Says more about ye than her.
She is terrible though.. come on.
I hope it doesnt affect warhammer fest in may. I've spent about 6 months painting my GD entries.
2 more confirmed cases in Lithuania. Possible secondary infections as people went to party after getting back from Italy from what I had heard. Nation is closing down its mass events, cinemas, theaters. Schools and kindergarten are also closing down across the nation. I'm just afraid that I have to leave my city for whole week and during this time I will be stuck in my parents house during nation wide quarantine.
Ernestas wrote: I'm just afraid that I have to leave my city for whole week and during this time I will be stuck in my parents house during nation wide quarantine.
I hope that this virus could politely wait for one full week and strike at the end of the month in my country. This way I could make use of my time in most entertaining and efficient fashion and I won't lose any holidays for it. I will only get more paid vacation. Otherwise I will be slightly annoyed by this outbreak.
I've got a trip to Prague at the end of April...like 45 days away, hopefully that will still be doable
EDIT: Given that it's already out in the wild, including the city I live in, this seems...extremely counterproductive.
Really, really bad headline from the BBC. It's Schengen only and it doesn't apply to citizens or permanent residents of the US. On the other hand, I understand it's actually indefinite, not limited to 30 days.
Ernestas wrote: I hope that this virus could politely wait for one full week and strike at the end of the month in my country. This way I could make use of my time in most entertaining and efficient fashion and I won't lose any holidays for it. I will only get more paid vacation. Otherwise I will be slightly annoyed by this outbreak.
Not sure if serious?
The company I last worked for (UK owned, global reach) has instituted a 30 day travel ban.
The company I currently work for has left it up to us.
I'm cancelling my trip next week to the Seattle area due to several issues - not the least of which is the potential for politically based shenanigans between President Trump (R) and Washington State Governor Inslee (D), who have already been sparring back and forth of the handling of this outbreak...
Meanwhile, the NBA has suspended its season after a player on the Utah Jazz has been confirmed to have COVID-19.
NHL and possibly MLB are expected to follow along soon too...
Apparently Trump was vague (as usual) and the travel ban is more about foreign nationals and not average joes. We're still trying to get the full story here at work.
I wish the owner of my company wasn't so old and old fashioned.. we're only allowed to work from home if the government mandates it. So even though all of our jobs can be done from anywhere in the world with an internet connection, we still have to drive into the office every day.
Personally virus or not I think everyone who can work remotely should work remotely, like forever. If anything just to cut down on traffic and smog. But that's another rant for another thread.
Necros wrote: Personally virus or not I think everyone who can work remotely should work remotely, like forever. If anything just to cut down on traffic and smog. But that's another rant for another thread.
Yes, but only if your work pay for your heating and electricity and pay partial rent during your work hours.
Sorry, back on topic...
Scottish government have asked for gatherings over 500 people to be cancelled from Monday and are forcing cancellation of any that require police out paramedic support.
I'm guessing school and university closure will be announced soon.
Da Boss wrote: Can foreign nationals not be average joes :( ? Average Johannes, surely!
Poorly phrased but yeah, the ban does not apply to US citizens or permanent residents.
I'm not sure the government could bar US citizens from the US, quarantine them yes, but ban them? I mean citizenship kinda means you have a right to live here.
Necros wrote: Apparently Trump was vague (as usual) and the travel ban is more about foreign nationals and not average joes. We're still trying to get the full story here at work.
I wish the owner of my company wasn't so old and old fashioned.. we're only allowed to work from home if the government mandates it. So even though all of our jobs can be done from anywhere in the world with an internet connection, we still have to drive into the office every day.
Personally virus or not I think everyone who can work remotely should work remotely, like forever. If anything just to cut down on traffic and smog. But that's another rant for another thread.
That might be one positive outcome of this; we realise how much the traditional slog to work isn’t needed anymore.
Irish government just closed all schools and banned gatherings of over 100 people. This is after being super lax for two weeks. Never change, Irish establishment.
I have a European cruise coming up in June.. flying in and out of Dublin. Already all paid for. Hoping things are all good by then. if not I'm sure the cruise line will let us change to something else, but not so sure about the airlines, because airlines are somehow allowed to never refund anyone.
Da Boss wrote: She got it from the Robert Koch Institute, which is the public health institute for Germany. I would presume it is based on risk modelling, which is important for logistical planning and all similar institutes such as the CDC in America would do similar modelling.
The number she actually said was 60-70% of Germans. This would not be unusual for a highly contagious disease for which there is no vaccine.
But yeah, continue to hate on Merkel for whatever reason. Says more about ye than her.
She is terrible though.. come on.
I hope it doesnt affect warhammer fest in may. I've spent about 6 months painting my GD entries.
Good luck with that. E3 and the Olympics in Japan are getting cancelled if I recall from this stupid virus.
For whoever said we shouldn't go into work then how are we all supposed to make money? What should I work from home? Then I have to send product to people they might get sick from. I guess I'm supposed to just code or something. Anyway if I can't work then I can't make money and if I can't make money I can't eat, pay rent or do anything.
Also I don't know how bad the cases are in the USA but if I recall it's better than Italy.
Regardless of what people want to say how well we're keeping these cases contained or not I don't think we could magically keep it contained as well as keep the economy from taking a backflip dive into the crapper and hitting our head on the porcelain and being knocked unconscious by it before hitting the inside of the toilet.
Probably best not for any arm chair politicians (one political side or another) to claim they have all the perfect answers in this scenario. Keep in mind we are still possibly a year off from a vaccine. For what it's worth I don't think I'm at risk. That is just all the young people, elderly and the sick. I might get it but I doubt I'd die from it. It's the groups I mentioned that could die. I could spread it to them if I got it though.
The sucky thing about all of this is that corona virus just basically ruined any desire I have to play plague inc. So that's another thing this stupid virus has ruined.
Da Boss wrote: She got it from the Robert Koch Institute, which is the public health institute for Germany. I would presume it is based on risk modelling, which is important for logistical planning and all similar institutes such as the CDC in America would do similar modelling.
The number she actually said was 60-70% of Germans. This would not be unusual for a highly contagious disease for which there is no vaccine.
But yeah, continue to hate on Merkel for whatever reason. Says more about ye than her.
She is terrible though.. come on.
I hope it doesnt affect warhammer fest in may. I've spent about 6 months painting my GD entries.
Good luck with that. E3 and the Olympics in Japan are getting cancelled if I recall from this stupid virus.
For whoever said we shouldn't go into work then how are we all supposed to make money? What should I work from home? Then I have to send product to people they might get sick from. I guess I'm supposed to just code or something. Anyway if I can't work then I can't make money and if I can't make money I can't eat, pay rent or do anything.
Also I don't know how bad the cases are in the USA but if I recall it's better than Italy.
Regardless of what people want to say how well we're keeping these cases contained or not I don't think we could magically keep it contained as well as keep the economy from taking a backflip dive into the crapper and hitting our head on the porcelain and being knocked unconscious by it before hitting the inside of the toilet.
Probably best not for any arm chair politicians (one political side or another) to claim they have all the perfect answers in this scenario. Keep in mind we are still possibly a year off from a vaccine. For what it's worth I don't think I'm at risk. That is just all the young people, elderly and the sick. I might get it but I doubt I'd die from it. It's the groups I mentioned that could die. I could spread it to them if I got it though.
The sucky thing about all of this is that corona virus just basically ruined any desire I have to play plague inc. So that's another thing this stupid virus has ruined.
It ain't them.
Unfortunately, countries without robust safety nets for poor people or those who suddenly find themselves in temporary financial trouble are simply going to struggle a lot. They're not suddenly going to have good and accessible sick pay and benefits. Those that do will be taking a significant economic hit anyway. We can only hope it's short.
Necros wrote: I have a European cruise coming up in June.. flying in and out of Dublin. Already all paid for. Hoping things are all good by then. if not I'm sure the cruise line will let us change to something else, but not so sure about the airlines, because airlines are somehow allowed to never refund anyone.
That assumes there will be a cruise line by then. Locally, tourism companies already asked the government for help, because most of them run business equivalent of paycheck to paycheck.
The BBC has reported that while the USA travel ban isn't going to extend to US nationals, they will only be able to come in to certain designated (but not yet revealed) destinations if they've been in any of the named EU countries
so people may have difficulties there if they are restrictive about where you come back to (and i'm guessing they're at least thinking about testing and/or quarentien)…. but I suspect any international airport will be ok,
also finally got some overall advise about how long the virus can survive outside the body, the NHS is belives it is up on 24 hours soft surfaces & 48 on hard surfaces from the pooled data they've seen, but are operating on 72 hour minimum just to be safe
Ernestas wrote: I'm just afraid that I have to leave my city for whole week and during this time I will be stuck in my parents house during nation wide quarantine.
Ernestas wrote: I'm just afraid that I have to leave my city for whole week and during this time I will be stuck in my parents house during nation wide quarantine.
Is that really a big deal? A week is not long.
A week in close confinement with your parents?
Cooking food for me? And also with models to paint, TV / Netflix / video games...? Yeah, I'd take that.
A week in my place; models to paint, the falcon to build, catch up on my reading and Netflix backlist, my PC games and the PlayStation? Sounds fantastic actually!
For those worried about this making kids sick, so far the research has shown that kids, and young people are the least affected by the virus.
If you're 80+, your chances of fatality jump to over 20%.
So, it's not so much the kids we need to worry about, except for them carrying and transmitting it. But, if one has trained their children to wash their hands frequently (YEAH! Right.) then it shouldn't be bad for children at all.
Its those that are elderly and with compromised immune systems that need to worry the most.
It's one of those situations where as a company you are 100% damned if you damned if you don't. Tell everyone to keep coming to work? You're the bad guy cause you're contributing to the virus' spread. Tell everyone to stay home? You're the bad guy because something like 80% of people live paycheck to paycheck and don't have a month's worth of savings to wait for all this to blow over.
Easy solution, pay your workers sick pay so it isn't a choice between money and spread disease or get kicked out of their home while they try to prevent the spread of the disease.
That situation is entirely of these companies own design, where they have fought tooth and nail against worker rights which would actually serve to protect their business in the long run.
UK staying in full tilt 'take it on the chin, lads' mode.
Government 'advises' against overseas school trips and old people going on cruises, and anyone with any flu symptoms should self-isolate for a week. They are 'considering' banning large scale events at some point in the coming weeks.
Somewhat more relaxed than, well, everywhere else, I think?
That's really cool. One can take a perverse satisfaction in the notion that the group of people who are complaining the most about not being able to work and earn their living due to the virus (millenials, zoomers), are also largely part of the group that basically refused to show up at the polls last Tuesday and vote for the guy who wants to implement more safety net programs for just this sort of situation.
It's one of those situations where as a company you are 100% damned if you damned if you don't. Tell everyone to keep coming to work? You're the bad guy cause you're contributing to the virus' spread. Tell everyone to stay home? You're the bad guy because something like 80% of people live paycheck to paycheck and don't have a month's worth of savings to wait for all this to blow over.
Easy solution, pay your workers sick pay so it isn't a choice between money and spread disease or get kicked out of their home while they try to prevent the spread of the disease.
I mean, you are aware that the average amount of sick time for employees in the US is like a week at the start, with MAYBE a bank max of 2 weeks through accrual, right? Do you think that 90% of employees with sick time were all hording it and saving it just in case a global pandemic broke out? Half the people I work with burned through all of their sick time due to the flu, their kids getting sick, recovering operations etc within three months of our sick time resetting.
I despise greedy capitalism as much as the average joe, but I'm hesitant to blame most companies for not accounting for things like "a super virus will grind the economy to a halt for at least a month).
That's really cool. One can take a perverse satisfaction in the notion that the group of people who are complaining the most about not being able to work and earn their living due to the virus (millenials, zoomers), are also largely part of the group that basically refused to show up at the polls last Tuesday and vote for the guy who wants to implement more safety net programs for just this sort of situation.
Alternatively, the people who couldn't afford to show up because they're struggling to make ends meet as it is.
That's really cool. One can take a perverse satisfaction in the notion that the group of people who are complaining the most about not being able to work and earn their living due to the virus (millenials, zoomers), are also largely part of the group that basically refused to show up at the polls last Tuesday and vote for the guy who wants to implement more safety net programs for just this sort of situation.
Alternatively, the people who couldn't afford to show up because they're struggling to make ends meet as it is.
It's funny how this is the only argument people ever make to try to defend the abysmal voter turn out for young people.
Every single recreational activity in the world is completely dominated by people in the range of 18-40 or so, yet coincidentally, when voting time comes around I'm supposed to believe that thousands upon thousands of 22 year olds just can't make it to the ballot box for an hour, no matter how hard they tried.
Like, I'm sure that a small number of 20 year olds are working three jobs and have two kids and maybe live in some rural craphole where traveling to the ballot box is hard and they genuinely can't make it out to vote. But that's absolutely not the situation for the extreme majority of the youth.
Da Boss wrote: Can foreign nationals not be average joes :( ? Average Johannes, surely!
Poorly phrased but yeah, the ban does not apply to US citizens or permanent residents.
I'm not sure the government could bar US citizens from the US, quarantine them yes, but ban them? I mean citizenship kinda means you have a right to live here.
Anyone know for certain?
Of course how to get to us is another thing. At least here flight companies started cancelling. With lots of customers unable to go no point. Eu even removed rule that prevented companies from simply not flying planes or lose market shares.
That's really cool. One can take a perverse satisfaction in the notion that the group of people who are complaining the most about not being able to work and earn their living due to the virus (millenials, zoomers), are also largely part of the group that basically refused to show up at the polls last Tuesday and vote for the guy who wants to implement more safety net programs for just this sort of situation.
It's one of those situations where as a company you are 100% damned if you damned if you don't. Tell everyone to keep coming to work? You're the bad guy cause you're contributing to the virus' spread. Tell everyone to stay home? You're the bad guy because something like 80% of people live paycheck to paycheck and don't have a month's worth of savings to wait for all this to blow over.
Easy solution, pay your workers sick pay so it isn't a choice between money and spread disease or get kicked out of their home while they try to prevent the spread of the disease.
I mean, you are aware that the average amount of sick time for employees in the US is like a week at the start, with MAYBE a bank max of 2 weeks through accrual, right? Do you think that 90% of employees with sick time were all hording it and saving it just in case a global pandemic broke out? Half the people I work with burned through all of their sick time due to the flu, their kids getting sick, recovering operations etc within three months of our sick time resetting.
I despise greedy capitalism as much as the average joe, but I'm hesitant to blame most companies for not accounting for things like "a super virus will grind the economy to a halt for at least a month).
Well that's decision of us. Us chose this and then to hide own mistakes that will make us suffer blame eu for it while doing economic attack vs eu.
That's really cool. One can take a perverse satisfaction in the notion that the group of people who are complaining the most about not being able to work and earn their living due to the virus (millenials, zoomers), are also largely part of the group that basically refused to show up at the polls last Tuesday and vote for the guy who wants to implement more safety net programs for just this sort of situation.
Alternatively, the people who couldn't afford to show up because they're struggling to make ends meet as it is.
It's funny how this is the only argument people ever make to try to defend the abysmal voter turn out for young people.
I work in finance stuff - they told me to stay home for 4 weeks plus I have 100+ hours PTO ready to go.
After the first week or so... I wont have any actual real work to do if they close down bank branches. They're trying to figure out work to do for audit/checking old files and such after we have no work to do
Oddly - a few of the sales reps/wealth advisors/officers dont actually have computers at home/bad with technology. They're phone and in person handshake only. Not sure what they can do with those.
Luckily I've picked up 2500 points of Mech Guard just for this occassion to paint
There was heavy rain and floods in Cairo today (substitute the word blizzard for rain to understand what that means here) so we got a taste of what may be to come.
It won't be pretty in the Kyoto household. Not pretty at all.
Turning my attention to finishing my retro 2nd edition IG army is really appealing now.
Argive wrote: So it seems like its a problem, but nothing is truly being done.. The true face of the zeitgeist is showing its ugly head. Humans are resource, get to work and who cares if you die because economy... Maybe finally more people will get it and some change will happen.
I mean, you say this, but my social media is DROWNING in hate messages from people who are pissed the feth off because they can't go to work (most of them work in the service industry) and don't know how they're going to pay their bills, live their lives etc.
It's one of those situations where as a company you are 100% damned if you damned if you don't. Tell everyone to keep coming to work? You're the bad guy cause you're contributing to the virus' spread. Tell everyone to stay home? You're the bad guy because something like 80% of people live paycheck to paycheck and don't have a month's worth of savings to wait for all this to blow over.
Well, you could do something REALLY radical and <gasp> PAY SICK TIME, but we all know profit is FAR more important than mitigating human suffering... [/sarcasm]
Argive wrote: So it seems like its a problem, but nothing is truly being done.. The true face of the zeitgeist is showing its ugly head. Humans are resource, get to work and who cares if you die because economy... Maybe finally more people will get it and some change will happen.
I mean, you say this, but my social media is DROWNING in hate messages from people who are pissed the feth off because they can't go to work (most of them work in the service industry) and don't know how they're going to pay their bills, live their lives etc.
It's one of those situations where as a company you are 100% damned if you damned if you don't. Tell everyone to keep coming to work? You're the bad guy cause you're contributing to the virus' spread. Tell everyone to stay home? You're the bad guy because something like 80% of people live paycheck to paycheck and don't have a month's worth of savings to wait for all this to blow over.
Good luck with that. E3 and the Olympics in Japan are getting cancelled if I recall from this stupid virus.
E3 is cancelled. The Olympics are not yet (and will likely just be postponed). The mayor of Tokyo is particularly vehement that they won't be, but that insistence is more about the economic cost and loss as well as the prestige loss if they don't happen.
The torch ceremony actually happened this morning in Olympia... without spectators.
That's really cool. One can take a perverse satisfaction in the notion that the group of people who are complaining the most about not being able to work and earn their living due to the virus (millenials, zoomers), are also largely part of the group that basically refused to show up at the polls last Tuesday and vote for the guy who wants to implement more safety net programs for just this sort of situation.
To be fair, many of them were probably busy working while the polls were open, and not a few areas have put polling stations in the most inconvenient area possible, especially if you are on the shank's mare for transportation.
It's one of those situations where as a company you are 100% damned if you damned if you don't. Tell everyone to keep coming to work? You're the bad guy cause you're contributing to the virus' spread. Tell everyone to stay home? You're the bad guy because something like 80% of people live paycheck to paycheck and don't have a month's worth of savings to wait for all this to blow over.
Easy solution, pay your workers sick pay so it isn't a choice between money and spread disease or get kicked out of their home while they try to prevent the spread of the disease.
That situation is entirely of these companies own design, where they have fought tooth and nail against worker rights which would actually serve to protect their business in the long run.
Welcome to the crucible. i warned of this dilemma on the early pages of this thread and got laughed at for my efforts. Now it is the emerging reality. As stated then, it is also a potential catalyst for change. Big business if king in the US, but events like this can easily topple crowns. This is early days still for COVID-19 and things have the potential to get much worse. Once society insists that people self isolate and yet they dont/wont/cant because of draconian management practices there will be leverage for change. This still does not guarantee reform though, you have to want it badly enough to mount stronger will than the pushback from corporate lobbyists.
However if COVID-19 really bites deep and large scale isolation is required, something will have to give, and with the stakes potentially being very high it might not be the populace who backs down this time.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
NinthMusketeer wrote: The voting discussion is interesting, but definitely politics.
Macro scale human interaction is inevitably political. We can discuss the thread topic and its directly political ramifications if we are cautious enough to keep the focus primarily on the virus or the social effects of its passing.
It's one of those situations where as a company you are 100% damned if you damned if you don't. Tell everyone to keep coming to work? You're the bad guy cause you're contributing to the virus' spread. Tell everyone to stay home? You're the bad guy because something like 80% of people live paycheck to paycheck and don't have a month's worth of savings to wait for all this to blow over.
Easy solution, pay your workers sick pay so it isn't a choice between money and spread disease or get kicked out of their home while they try to prevent the spread of the disease.
That situation is entirely of these companies own design, where they have fought tooth and nail against worker rights which would actually serve to protect their business in the long run.
Welcome to the crucible. i warned of this dilemma on the early pages of this thread and got laughed at for my efforts. Now it is the emerging reality. As stated then, it is also a potential catalyst for change. Big business if king in the US, but events like this can easily topple crowns. This is early days still for COVID-19 and things have the potential to get much worse. Once society insists that people self isolate and yet they dont/wont/cant because of draconian management practices there will be leverage for change. This still does not guarantee reform though, you have to want it badly enough to mount stronger will than the pushback from corporate lobbyists.
However if COVID-19 really bites deep and large scale isolation is required, something will have to give, and with the stakes potentially being very high it might not be the populace who backs down this time.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
NinthMusketeer wrote: The voting discussion is interesting, but definitely politics.
Macro scale human interaction is inevitably political. We can discuss the thread topic and its directly political ramifications if we are cautious enough to keep the focus primarily on the virus or the social effects of its passing.
Every revolution evaporates and leaves behind the slime of a new bureaucracy.
Roberts84 wrote: Volatility in the market is great. I love this gak, personally.
Very cool, right? So awesome that regular working people like Nurses and Teachers and people working retail are having their Super wiped out. Luckily the rich have enough safety net that they'll be (financially) fine whatever happens. Gerry Harvey lost AU$15m the other day and just shrugged.
That's really cool. One can take a perverse satisfaction in the notion that the group of people who are complaining the most about not being able to work and earn their living due to the virus (millenials, zoomers), are also largely part of the group that basically refused to show up at the polls last Tuesday and vote for the guy who wants to implement more safety net programs for just this sort of situation.
Alternatively, the people who couldn't afford to show up because they're struggling to make ends meet as it is.
It's funny how this is the only argument people ever make to try to defend the abysmal voter turn out for young people.
Every single recreational activity in the world is completely dominated by people in the range of 18-40 or so, yet coincidentally, when voting time comes around I'm supposed to believe that thousands upon thousands of 22 year olds just can't make it to the ballot box for an hour, no matter how hard they tried.
Like, I'm sure that a small number of 20 year olds are working three jobs and have two kids and maybe live in some rural craphole where traveling to the ballot box is hard and they genuinely can't make it out to vote. But that's absolutely not the situation for the extreme majority of the youth.
On the other hand, the old people that make the young people work without sick days are the ones that will be dropping like flies.
Roberts84 wrote: Volatility in the market is great. I love this gak, personally.
Very cool, right? So awesome that regular working people like Nurses and Teachers and people working retail are having their Super wiped out. Luckily the rich have enough safety net that they'll be (financially) fine whatever happens. Gerry Harvey lost AU$15m the other day and just shrugged.
lol nobody is having their super 'wiped out', if that's happening to anyone they need a better fund. If you're worried get your Service provider to switch out your investments from growth assets into something else to insulate your super from volatility which will be short-term.
So, work sent me home because of the possibility i might have been exposed
last monday i saw a client and his father just started showing symptoms. However, i have not seen them since.
But im not worried really, the father said he got it Saturday at the airport.
So like, work said i get special compensation for it and im just gonna stay home.
I wasn't going anyway, but I have many friends who were planning to, so kind of a bummer.
On topic - I know touching your face is dangerous, but putting your paintbrush in your mouth to reshape the tip mid-paint-session is still safe, right?
ValentineGames wrote: Can people stop panic buying toilet rolls please. I'd like to wipe my ass. Thanks.
Seconded. I had to buy one-ply store brand because it was all they had left and I'm not quite to the sponge stage level of despair just yet.
If you ever get that desperate just use your shower when you have to clean off your rear. Believe me it does a much better job anyway. Toilet paper is more for convenience and if you take regular showers. Which you should shower regularly and that's something a lot of us socially inept nerds should try more of. I used to be guilty of this too in the past but it's good to do.
I realize this might come off as not knowledgeable enough but has anybody tried looking for a cure based on the people that have gotten over being sick from corona virus. Perhaps the people that get better and have a newfound immunity can be used for a cure? I am big on science but I was never big on biology so if this is way above my pay grade (Which it should be) then let me know. Is it a worthwhile thought though?
ValentineGames wrote: Can people stop panic buying toilet rolls please. I'd like to wipe my ass. Thanks.
Seconded. I had to buy one-ply store brand because it was all they had left and I'm not quite to the sponge stage level of despair just yet.
If you ever get that desperate just use your shower when you have to clean off your rear. Believe me it does a much better job anyway. Toilet paper is more for convenience and if you take regular showers. Which you should shower regularly and that's something a lot of us socially inept nerds should try more of. I used to be guilty of this too in the past but it's good to do.
I realize this might come off as not knowledgeable enough but has anybody tried looking for a cure based on the people that have gotten over being sick from corona virus. Perhaps the people that get better and have a newfound immunity can be used for a cure? I am big on science but I was never big on biology so if this is way above my pay grade (Which it should be) then let me know. Is it a worthwhile thought though?
Growing up in QLD Australia I couldn't believe when travelling to the states and the UK that people didn't shower every day. I tend to shower twice day.
ValentineGames wrote: Can people stop panic buying toilet rolls please. I'd like to wipe my ass. Thanks.
Seconded. I had to buy one-ply store brand because it was all they had left and I'm not quite to the sponge stage level of despair just yet.
If you ever get that desperate just use your shower when you have to clean off your rear. Believe me it does a much better job anyway. Toilet paper is more for convenience and if you take regular showers. Which you should shower regularly and that's something a lot of us socially inept nerds should try more of. I used to be guilty of this too in the past but it's good to do.
Wanna laugh. When stocking up I did a google search to find if the three seashells was actually a thing.
I am in trouble, the crisis is only beginning and I am down to my last 150 already. Used some last year and didn't replace.
Tip: The is a run on certain items but not others, yet. BUY TINS NOW, and rice too as there has yet to be a run on the rice. It's not panic buying if you stock up now before the run. Postpone hobby expenditure and do this now, you wont regret even this much prepping.
I realize this might come off as not knowledgeable enough but has anybody tried looking for a cure based on the people that have gotten over being sick from corona virus. Perhaps the people that get better and have a newfound immunity can be used for a cure? I am big on science but I was never big on biology so if this is way above my pay grade (Which it should be) then let me know. Is it a worthwhile thought though?
Got bad news here. It appears that you can be reinfected. I dont know how this is a thing but people have been reported to have had coronavirus twice. It might be press hearsay or muddled testing, I so hope it is; fairly calm about this crisis, but this is a big question mark in the back of my mind.
ValentineGames wrote: Can people stop panic buying toilet rolls please. I'd like to wipe my ass. Thanks.
I know the pain. My wife picked up some today when doing normal grocery shopping and got the last roll in the store (normal supermarket). The cashier said that they were allegedly out at our local target and walmart as well.
My local library is selling James Patterson books for a quarter, and with media mail I can ship about 20 books for $7. You don't even have to be desperate to wipe with a Patterson book. I'll be happy to hook you all up.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: My local library is selling James Patterson books for a quarter, and with media mail I can ship about 20 books for $7. You don't even have to be desperate to wipe with a Patterson book. I'll be happy to hook you all up.
How it happens. You are transitioning from normal life to apocalypse and are destroying books already.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: My local library is selling James Patterson books for a quarter, and with media mail I can ship about 20 books for $7. You don't even have to be desperate to wipe with a Patterson book. I'll be happy to hook you all up.
How it happens. You are transitioning from normal life to apocalypse and are destroying books already.
ValentineGames wrote: Can people stop panic buying toilet rolls please. I'd like to wipe my ass. Thanks.
Seconded. I had to buy one-ply store brand because it was all they had left and I'm not quite to the sponge stage level of despair just yet.
If you ever get that desperate just use your shower when you have to clean off your rear. Believe me it does a much better job anyway. Toilet paper is more for convenience and if you take regular showers. Which you should shower regularly and that's something a lot of us socially inept nerds should try more of. I used to be guilty of this too in the past but it's good to do.
Wanna laugh. When stocking up I did a google search to find if the three seashells was actually a thing.
I am in trouble, the crisis is only beginning and I am down to my last 150 already. Used some last year and didn't replace.
Tip: The is a run on certain items but not others, yet. BUY TINS NOW, and rice too as there has yet to be a run on the rice. It's not panic buying if you stock up now before the run. Postpone hobby expenditure and do this now, you wont regret even this much prepping.
I realize this might come off as not knowledgeable enough but has anybody tried looking for a cure based on the people that have gotten over being sick from corona virus. Perhaps the people that get better and have a newfound immunity can be used for a cure? I am big on science but I was never big on biology so if this is way above my pay grade (Which it should be) then let me know. Is it a worthwhile thought though?
Got bad news here. It appears that you can be reinfected. I dont know how this is a thing but people have been reported to have had coronavirus twice. It might be press hearsay or muddled testing, I so hope it is; fairly calm about this crisis, but this is a big question mark in the back of my mind.
You can't get the same virus twice, well, you can but you are immune to it, thats how viruses work....you could get a different strain, but not the exact same one.
The toilet paper aisles in every store I visited were completely empty. As was the rice and pasta at every grocery store.
Man, Dean Koontz got it right....
You can't get the same virus twice, well, you can but you are immune to it, thats how viruses work....you could get a different strain, but not the exact same one.
Thats absolutely not true. Just because you survive a disease once doesn't necessarily mean you are immune to it, virus or not. It just means you will have some level of resistance to it. Weather that is enough to be immune to it is dependent on many variables.
We've already had a few people come down with this very virus twice, so we know it can happen.
You can't get the same virus twice, well, you can but you are immune to it, thats how viruses work....you could get a different strain, but not the exact same one.
Thats absolutely not true. Just because you survive a disease once doesn't necessarily mean you are immune to it, virus or not. It just means you will have some level of resistance to it. Weather that is enough to be immune to it is dependent on many variables.
We've already had a few people come down with this very virus twice, so we know it can happen.
Patently false. When you defeat a virus you develop antigens, these stay in your body....usually forever, but in some rare instances its a matter of years, not days, not months...years. This is the whole reason vaccines work. They inject you with an inoculated version of the virus, your body fights it off an now you are protected. Now there are certain individuals whose bodies are unable to hold on to those antigens for very long, but they are few and far between, these are usually people with very compromised immune systems for one reason or another . Viruses can also mutate, but then its not the same virus, its a different strain. A normally healthy human will not get the same virus twice.
flamingkillamajig wrote: Yeah well we don't all live in a ridiculously hot place like Australia where I imagine you're caked in sweat just for merely existing there.
flamingkillamajig wrote: If you ever get that desperate just use your shower when you have to clean off your rear. Believe me it does a much better job anyway. Toilet paper is more for convenience and if you take regular showers. Which you should shower regularly and that's something a lot of us socially inept nerds should try more of. I used to be guilty of this too in the past but it's good to do.
If only the place I live in had the luxury of a working shower... That'd be heavenly.
Though I don't think the others living there want a half stripped gakky ass walking upstairs from the downstairs toilet even if it did function.
flamingkillamajig wrote: Yeah well we don't all live in a ridiculously hot place like Australia where I imagine you're caked in sweat just for merely existing there.
Yes, because everyone in the world doesnt adapt to their environment...
Ernestas wrote: I'm just afraid that I have to leave my city for whole week and during this time I will be stuck in my parents house during nation wide quarantine.
Is that really a big deal? A week is not long.
A week in close confinement with your parents?
Cooking food for me? And also with models to paint, TV / Netflix / video games...? Yeah, I'd take that.
Yea, every day I will get something new to eat and it will be so much of it. I always get fatter after just weekend of being there. I just hope that country will not get shut down and I could escape with busses back to my home. Week there is already nightmarish, I would hate being stuck for few weeks more there.
I also had purchased long lasting food yesterday for 40 euros. I don't need it right now, but you never know. People are already cleaning stores out of key food groups. Bread, meat, rice, etc. are gone. So it is better to get all this stuff now in order to have some reserves in case of emergency.
Kilkrazy wrote: It's not impossible to be re-infected with a virus. I had German Measles three times as a child.
However, on re-infection your body already has a more powerful immune response and will fight off the virus quickly.
(Read or watch Cells At Work for more information about this.)
Automatically Appended Next Post: In other virus news, a Japanese wife friend of my wife was sworn and spat at in Lidl for being oriental.
Orient, do i mix that up but orient for me is middle east and ex ottoman territory.
Also, hip hip huray, that will achieve anything.... (not only is it highly stupid behaviour but also increases potential contamination. Great job! I swear..)
Ernestas wrote: I'm just afraid that I have to leave my city for whole week and during this time I will be stuck in my parents house during nation wide quarantine.
Is that really a big deal? A week is not long.
A week in close confinement with your parents?
Cooking food for me? And also with models to paint, TV / Netflix / video games...? Yeah, I'd take that.
Yea, every day I will get something new to eat and it will be so much of it. I always get fatter after just weekend of being there. I just hope that country will not get shut down and I could escape with busses back to my home. Week there is already nightmarish, I would hate being stuck for few weeks more there.
I also had purchased long lasting food yesterday for 40 euros. I don't need it right now, but you never know. People are already cleaning stores out of key food groups. Bread, meat, rice, etc. are gone. So it is better to get all this stuff now in order to have some reserves in case of emergency.
Honest question, this surprises me a bit, do non of your governments reccomend / force you to have reserves of food and other necessities?
Honest question, this surprises me a bit, do non of your governments reccomend / force you to have reserves of food and other necessities?
Governments forcing people to do things is generally seen as something undesirable here (thankfully, and for good reason)
That is a great attitute to have. except it aint but then again i can't blame you what with parlamentarian primate you got going.
Still would be one off the better reglementations for preparation and emergency issues.
Honest question, this surprises me a bit, do non of your governments reccomend / force you to have reserves of food and other necessities?
Governments forcing people to do things is generally seen as something undesirable here (thankfully, and for good reason)
That is a great attitute to have. except it aint but then again i can't blame you what with parlamentarian primate you got going.
Still would be one off the better reglementations for preparation and emergency issues.
Its just liberty. Governments can advise, but excessive legislation is something most liberals balk against. its how we differ from Europeans, who are much more receptive to higher levels of legislation. Its the main reason for our departure in my opinon, but we digress into dangerous waters here.
The thing is different countries experience different things. The UK (esp in the last 100-50 years) has had milder and milder winters and generally doesn't get extreme weather events like hurricanes. As a result the population is pretty much not used to disasters on a massive scale. We get floods or droughts from time to time, but they are often very regional things and might affect a population group one year; but another year affect an entirely different segment of the country.
As a result there's no inherent "need" felt within the population to be "disaster ready". Thus any government instruction to be ready would be looked down upon. Considering that over the last 10 or so years foodbanks have risen to become quite commonplace; turning around to a population showing issues with food provision to then be mandated to hold reserves would be looked down upon greatly. That said, of course, the government does keep reserves of food and other supplies - though I've no idea how much nor the natureof what is stored etc...
Of course more remote northern regions like Scotland you would likely see many holding reserves for a few months in readiness for a bad winter. Meanwhile in the south people might keep a torch and a few candles in case the power goes out for a few hours. Again different segments of the population even within a country experience different things. Telling all the south to be ready for a bad winter with winter stocks would just look daft; whilst for scotland many wouldn't need to be told.
Yeah, that is why the UK never had internment without trial or any of that. Especially not in the 70s. Or the military shooting people in the street. Because ye love liberty.
Honest question, this surprises me a bit, do non of your governments reccomend / force you to have reserves of food and other necessities?
Governments forcing people to do things is generally seen as something undesirable here (thankfully, and for good reason)
That is a great attitute to have. except it aint but then again i can't blame you what with parlamentarian primate you got going.
Still would be one off the better reglementations for preparation and emergency issues.
Its just liberty. Governments can advise, but excessive legislation is something most liberals balk against. its how we differ from Europeans, who are much more receptive to higher levels of legislation. Its the main reason for our departure in my opinon, but we digress into dangerous waters here.
Meh, that'd be true, if you'd talk about european doctrine here, switzerland kinda, bypassess that beeing technically an Arch-liberal country though, but i guess it helps when you make people the government and had some rather nasty surprises during WW1 in regards too food shortages.
Honest question, this surprises me a bit, do non of your governments reccomend / force you to have reserves of food and other necessities?
Not yet, and I pray to who- or whatever is out there that it won't be neccessary. No idea if it's the right call but I think there's also something to be said for keeping the food supply chain as normalized as possible for as long as possible. Reason being that if the government tells you to stock up on essentials those essentials won't magically come into being. Production rates have a limit, so if everyone starts to stock up we end up in a very creepy Darwinist "first come first serve" situation leading to some people being overstocked and other people not having said essentials. Which will lead to them being at much more risk to develop severe symptoms if they do catch the virus, which will lead to the medical system collapsing sooner, which in turn will lead to more deaths. It's a vicious cycle really.
Yesterday I wanted to buy some acetominophen to reduce fever if I catch COVID-19 and was rather scared to see that the shelves were empty at my usual store. Still found some elsewhere. Never been so happy with a bloody box of pills and I hope that that's as bad as it's gonna get.
Thee german government recommended everyone to have a stock of food and water back during the worst of the terrorist incidents. I just kept the stock up, as it is pretty easy.
Our govt. issued announcement that so far, they do not plan to close cities down or close stores. Which honestly makes sense, we already had panic-buying of cleaning products and dry foods, if they were to close down stores, it'd just pack maximum number of people into shopping malls and ensure even easier spread of the virus.
I refuse to discuss the working-poor culling plans of current UK government here.
I dont think our response is that bad. I just think we have a tendency to be more reserved than a lot of other places. People saying we're either not doing enough, or even acting maliciously, because we're not doing the same as other countries, are fear mongering.
there are a lot of considerations. for example if you take all your kids out of schools and nurseries, you will then inevitably have less health workers, emergency response personnel etc available as parents have to stay at home.
Yep. That was the calculus in Germany. Schools are still offering childcare for healthcare workers here, apparently. At least where I am.
That might be what they do in the UK too.
I feel sorry for my students. Their exams are very soon.
You can't get the same virus twice, well, you can but you are immune to it, thats how viruses work....you could get a different strain, but not the exact same one.
Thats absolutely not true. Just because you survive a disease once doesn't necessarily mean you are immune to it, virus or not. It just means you will have some level of resistance to it. Weather that is enough to be immune to it is dependent on many variables.
We've already had a few people come down with this very virus twice, so we know it can happen.
Patently false. When you defeat a virus you develop antigens, these stay in your body....usually forever, but in some rare instances its a matter of years, not days, not months...years. This is the whole reason vaccines work. They inject you with an inoculated version of the virus, your body fights it off an now you are protected. Now there are certain individuals whose bodies are unable to hold on to those antigens for very long, but they are few and far between, these are usually people with very compromised immune systems for one reason or another . Viruses can also mutate, but then its not the same virus, its a different strain. A normally healthy human will not get the same virus twice.
Professor of immunology (missed his name) has just been on BBC Politics Live talking about how coronavirus immunity wanes over a year or two.
Had a bit of a scare - GF's job has two coworkers that have it. Her building didnt even shut down. They had some call about having a "Deep Clean" in the office. Few buildings in one area straight shut down in the city'. I'm going to spend all morning at work telling clients to drive from NYC to Newark today for a few deal or figuring out some way to handle POAs and esigning legal docs
Yet the city is reporting only one case on the news.... nice. Getting a lot of vibes of people brushing things under the rug.
My step mom is a nurse and mentioned they have a few cases but HIPAA and so on doesnt allow her to talk about it. She's over 60 so she's taking PTO that was approved due to her age
Da Boss wrote: I think the UK is trying to follow the scientists, actually. I just hope their scientists have it right. I guess we will see.
Governments of other european countries which did shut down schools or public events are, I assume, not following the specialists' advice?
Different specialists, different demographics, different health systems etc.
I don't know if Vallance and Whitty* are right about their strategy, but I do believe that it is their strategy that is being followed. I have no reason to assume that UK authorities are just having a punt. They'd be found out in a month or two ad they'd all end their careers, some might well go to jail, and Johnson would kill a massive swathe of his party's voters.
*That's Sir Patrick Vallance FRS FMedSci FRCP, Chief Scientific Advisor and ex-president of medical R&D at a major pharma international and ex-professor of medicine and head of Division of Medicine at UCL, and Prof. Chris Whitty CB FRCP FFPH FMedSci, Chief Medical Officer and head of National Institute for Health Research who took a major role in controlling the ebola outbreak of the mid 2010s. And their teams.
Da Boss wrote: I think the UK is trying to follow the scientists, actually. I just hope their scientists have it right. I guess we will see.
Governments of other european countries which did shut down schools or public events are, I assume, not following the specialists' advice?
Specialists and scientists are not always unified in their advice on a course of action to follow. Sometimes there's variation and different countries might have different scientific understanding and interpretation and thus take different pathways. That's without considering differences in infrastructure and community etc.. Eg I'm not surprised that regions like Hong Kong can shut things down and greatly restrict the public's mobility far more so and with more community support than some western nations.
Furthermore sometimes there is no right answer or no proven method. So everyone experiments and some follow others and others take different pathways.
Furthermore sometimes there is no right answer or no proven method.
This is a case of contagious disease. It's not some terra nova, it's something that has been dealt with in the past. Isolation is a proven method. Coronavirus isn't some magical being that can teleport, it needs to have contact between carrier and new victims. By not shutting down public gatherings at the very least, you are allowing unchecked spread.
It's no skin off my back, but I'd think people would be more concerned about something that has 15% mortality rate among 65+ group....
Da Boss wrote: I think the UK is trying to follow the scientists, actually. I just hope their scientists have it right. I guess we will see.
Governments of other european countries which did shut down schools or public events are, I assume, not following the specialists' advice?
This is one of the few instances where the "experts" have been questionable so far. WHO has been up to some sketchy business and Tedros isn't exactly squeaky clean himself. Tedros has been caught covering up Cholera outbreaks in his home country by calling it "acute watery diarrhea", tried to appoint Mugabe as a Goodwill ambassador, and previously was Ethiopia's foreign minister while they were committing human rights violations. Tedros Sauce: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/13/health/candidate-who-director-general-ethiopia-cholera-outbreaks.html
Its a little worrying when the supposed experts get caught covering up epidemics, push to get Traditional Chinese Medicine recognized by WHO without clinical evidence to support its effectiveness, and Tedros' home country had 78M of debt forgiven by China about a month before TCM was recognized.
It is unfortunate if the figureheads of these organisations are not as good as we would like them to be, but the WHO is still the best chance we have for co-ordination against this pandemic and is made up of many more people than one man.
So I live in the 1 (I think) Pennsylvania county that is shut down, and my boss is still making everyone come to work unless you have kids who are out of school (why don't dogs count as kids?). I told him I'm working from home starting monday. If it's a problem, I'll just take the time off. My fiance is a cancer survivor, i'm not risking bringing germs home to her. That and my commute is over an hour and I just don't wanna since I have a valid excuse
People at work are saying grocery stores were cleared out of everything from TP to sweet potatoes last night. And liquor stores are packed with people grabbing all the booze they can. We stocked up on the essentials last week luckily, so I'm gonna head to my local butcher tomorrow and get a bunch of meat since I need to restock anyway, and the lemmings don't even know they exist, and it's better than anything in the grocery stores. Gonna get a 4 pound pork belly, cuz times like these call for homemade bacon, just sucks that it takes a week to make it.
Necros wrote: So I live in the 1 (I think) Pennsylvania county that is shut down, and my boss is still making everyone come to work unless you have kids who are out of school (why don't dogs count as kids?). I told him I'm working from home starting monday. If it's a problem, I'll just take the time off. My fiance is a cancer survivor, i'm not risking bringing germs home to her. That and my commute is over an hour and I just don't wanna since I have a valid excuse
People at work are saying grocery stores were cleared out of everything from TP to sweet potatoes last night. And liquor stores are packed with people grabbing all the booze they can. We stocked up on the essentials last week luckily, so I'm gonna head to my local butcher tomorrow and get a bunch of meat since I need to restock anyway, and the lemmings don't even know they exist, and it's better than anything in the grocery stores. Gonna get a 4 pound pork belly, cuz times like these call for homemade bacon, just sucks that it takes a week to make it.
We have multiple buildings in Philly shut down - internal memos are basically "hey we totally had a case.... take a free PTO day or work remote". Stock up and good luck!
I'm rolling into the office Sunday to pick stuff up but otherwise its a few weeks of hermit mode
No, we do are not required to have any food ready. Though, a lot of people in general could get by for a week with their general reserves. Now we have mild panic as people are buying out key food groups. We have highly developed market chains in our country and additional groceries were ordered weeks ago by major retailers. So far markets had proven quite resilient and able to cope with people cleaning them in order to buy up enough food for quarantine.
Today we were told to take our computers from work in order if we would be asked to work from home. Our company is quite concerned about it, but others are not. Some private companies are fighting government over quarantining employees who got from Italy. They do not want to nor workers show symptoms while general public is screaming of how evil they are and begging for police state tyrannical regime where everyone is shot. While our government being just little bit overzealous, shutting itself down before actual spread of disease had even happened, but it had failed to provide sufficient oversight of all incoming people from dangerous regions. So it is always some idiot who is coming back from holidays in Italy who is infected.
flamingkillamajig wrote: Yeah well we don't all live in a ridiculously hot place like Australia where I imagine you're caked in sweat just for merely existing there.
Yes, because everyone in the world doesnt adapt to their environment...
Uh what. Yeah they do nut it doesn't mean it doesn't still effect them. In Arizona people kept telling me to wear pants because it was cold at night. I wouldn't have if they'd have just left me alone. Arizona is very mild right now and I live in Michigan where it's pretty cold.
That said even if Australians are used to the heat in Arizona I did what I could to escape the 120 degree Fahrenheit days. I mean that like saying people get used to living in an artic research station and somehow magically don't get cold.I'm
Captain Joystick wrote: Have a friend who works retail, she told me someone bought 400 bucks worth of TP yesterday.
So of course I had to go down to my local grocery store and observe the chaos.
It actually wasn't so bad, only slightly more busy than I've usually seen it, and not the worst I'd ever seen it besides.
That said, the TP isle was completely barren.
Tellingly, the isle across from it was fully stocked with hand soap.
It's not bloody dysentery...
I mean i sit on a bunker , but where the hell do you storage 400$ of toilet paper?
In your bank account
You buy it to stock up, wait until the shelves are empty, then you sell it at a markup and profit on the difference. If you trade locally you can even do it all cash-in-hand.
Even supermarket limits of "one or two per customer" can't always stop those eager to turn some money. They just get the whole family to drop in and buy in separate orders and go around and around a few shops and around the same shop going to different tills; trading in cash so that there's no number or ID trace possible. The limits mostly only stop casual overbuying; anyone determined to exceed can. Supermarkets aren't geared up to police things like that on their own. They might stop it now and then, but by and large they just aren't made to ration stock perfectly.
Necros wrote: So I live in the 1 (I think) Pennsylvania county that is shut down, and my boss is still making everyone come to work unless you have kids who are out of school (why don't dogs count as kids?). I told him I'm working from home starting monday. If it's a problem, I'll just take the time off. My fiance is a cancer survivor, i'm not risking bringing germs home to her. That and my commute is over an hour and I just don't wanna since I have a valid excuse
People at work are saying grocery stores were cleared out of everything from TP to sweet potatoes last night. And liquor stores are packed with people grabbing all the booze they can. We stocked up on the essentials last week luckily, so I'm gonna head to my local butcher tomorrow and get a bunch of meat since I need to restock anyway, and the lemmings don't even know they exist, and it's better than anything in the grocery stores. Gonna get a 4 pound pork belly, cuz times like these call for homemade bacon, just sucks that it takes a week to make it.
I work at a company that manufactures sterilization equipment, so we're not changing anything. I'm right in the middle of moving to my first house, so long as I can get to Sunday without major disruptions in travel from the Govt that'll all be done and sorted.
our company's policy is basically "no extra sick time/vacation time/working from home unless the government puts forth some sort of program" so I'm continuing to go to work I guess.
Tons of folks in the factory are out on unpaid sick time, so I assume we've mostly got it at this point unless that's just regular flu. I think we're at like "3/1,000,000 citizens tested" right now. Operations VP has "it's just a cold" in the office across the hall from me so I'm just trying to avoid him and disinfect as best I can.
Future War Cultist wrote: A friend alerted me to a place that’s flogging hand wash for £19.99. There’s calls for a boycott....serves them right too imo.
Our county has a price gouger report site and maybe number. It cam across my FB feed earlier this week. I follow the county, city, out utility provider, fire department and sheriff over FB for local news, traffic updates and weather reports and all the local stuff like that. That's the biggest or second biggest thing I like about Face Book.
If any of you don't have groups like that it might be a good idea to try to get them started. We have forest fires, hurricanes, floods power outages wild dogs Bears and recently I have noticed a high number of road fatalities. I have a lot of COVID-19 updates and information coming across today. Looks like a lot of cancellations. Makes me wonder if we are having the county fair this month or not I haven't seen anything about that mentioned at all. With all the cancellations I doubt it will still happen this year.
I heard out local supermarket mad an announcement telling people to get a flue shot to prevent the coronavirus and this upset a lot of people as bad information. From what I have seen it's not correct but also not 100% wrong, just not right in the way they were expressing. I am not sure of most causes of death but I thought they were from other things like pneumonia, one knocks you down the other does you in. But I am probably incorrect, I haven't looked up on that in a week or two.
Has anyone ordered anything from Amazon in the US in the last week or two and if so were there any delays, longer than normal or longer than you expected? wondering if I missed my window, if so I will just wait.
We’ve ordered a couple things from Amazon and they arrived as timely as expected. We didn’t order TP, though.
We’re in earthquake country, so we had a month’s worth of supplies on hand before the outbreak, and have had little trouble supplementing that recently. Last weekend, TP and canned food were still plentiful. Hand sanitizer was all gone, but likely due to speculators buying it all out as we’d heard stories of people buying 75 squirt bottles in one trip last month.
I've just experienced the old empty toilet paper section with my weekly shop. I must say it annoyed me, not because I didnt get and paper (I just bought a box of mansize tissues instead, which there were tons of) but purely because of the sheer stupidity of humans and their dumb sheep thinking mentality.. if I (aswell as others of course) realise that stocking up on a LUXURY item is stupid, why cant others?
BobtheInquisitor wrote: We’ve ordered a couple things from Amazon and they arrived as timely as expected. We didn’t order TP, though.
We’re in earthquake country, so we had a month’s worth of supplies on hand before the outbreak, and have had little trouble supplementing that recently. Last weekend, TP and canned food were still plentiful. Hand sanitizer was all gone, but likely due to speculators buying it all out as we’d heard stories of people buying 75 squirt bottles in one trip last month.
I may place my order then. Not after any survival supplies. Although I may stock up on some supplements and order a strong multivitamin, couldn't hurt. I was looking at a clean suite but found this instead it's far more stylish. And I would but I've put on a lot of weight over the last 7 years.
Future War Cultist wrote: A friend alerted me to a place that’s flogging hand wash for £19.99. There’s calls for a boycott....serves them right too imo.
Why? if morons are willing to buy it, it makes sense to rinse them for it. GW do it and no-one bats an eye
You can't get the same virus twice, well, you can but you are immune to it, thats how viruses work....you could get a different strain, but not the exact same one.
Thats absolutely not true. Just because you survive a disease once doesn't necessarily mean you are immune to it, virus or not. It just means you will have some level of resistance to it. Weather that is enough to be immune to it is dependent on many variables.
We've already had a few people come down with this very virus twice, so we know it can happen.
Patently false. When you defeat a virus you develop antigens, these stay in your body....usually forever, but in some rare instances its a matter of years, not days, not months...years. This is the whole reason vaccines work. They inject you with an inoculated version of the virus, your body fights it off an now you are protected. Now there are certain individuals whose bodies are unable to hold on to those antigens for very long, but they are few and far between, these are usually people with very compromised immune systems for one reason or another . Viruses can also mutate, but then its not the same virus, its a different strain. A normally healthy human will not get the same virus twice.
There were several healthy people who came down with the same strain twice in China. Its not a 100% thing, same with Vaccines. You can absolutely come down with the same virus twice even with a healthy immune system, its all about your specific situation. Vaccines do work on the principle of antigens sticking around for a long time, but its not absolute or foolproof. Vaccines do fail, not all antigens are permanent, etc...
Again, people have already caught Coronavirus twice and its not a different strain.
Future War Cultist wrote: A friend alerted me to a place that’s flogging hand wash for £19.99. There’s calls for a boycott....serves them right too imo.
Why? if morons are willing to buy it, it makes sense to rinse them for it. GW do it and no-one bats an eye
Because Warhammer miniatures are as essential as hand wash right now, amirite? You don't lose anything if you can't afford a miniature or think it's too pricey. You might lose everything if you can't properly keep your hands clean right now. That's the difference, and that's why people charging 20 bucks for hand wash are among the most despicable people on the planet right now while GW increasing prices is a mild case of corporate greed at worst.
Automatically Appended Next Post: In other virus news, a Japanese wife friend of my wife was sworn and spat at in Lidl for being oriental.
Some people really are vermin
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warhead01 wrote: I heard out local supermarket mad an announcement telling people to get a flue shot to prevent the coronavirus and this upset a lot of people as bad information. From what I have seen it's not correct but also not 100% wrong, just not right in the way they were expressing. I am not sure of most causes of death but I thought they were from other things like pneumonia, one knocks you down the other does you in. But I am probably incorrect, I haven't looked up on that in a week or two.
A flu shot won't do anything to protect you from corona virus, but, catching corona virus and the flu at the same time is probably going to be really bad news as both will be messing up your lungs so if you can get a flu shot and haven't yet it's a smart thing to do especially if your in an at risk group (lung problems, immune system problems, heart problems etc),
and as you say pneumonia is always up to joining in if your lungs are messed up and your immune system is stretched anyway
Future War Cultist wrote: A friend alerted me to a place that’s flogging hand wash for £19.99. There’s calls for a boycott....serves them right too imo.
Hey retailers... Want to catch Covid-19? Why not hike the price of soap to discourage people from proper hygiene!
The university I go to shut down because of the virus. Right in what is probably the busiest period of the year. All of my exams have been cancelled.
While it is great that I now have extra time to work on my thesis, essays, portfolio and similar assignments, this does delay my study progress by quite a bit. I will probably have to keep working during the summer holiday now. Really pissed at that
While I understand the need to stop a contagious virus from spreading, I don't remember this kind of panic from the swine flu pandemic. Personally I think that people are overreacting a bit. Flu epidemics kill huge numbers of people across the world on a yearly basis (much more than this coronavirus), but people aren't freaking out about that either.
Well, at least I get to go home and spend time with my dad, which is something I don't do often enough. So that is a plus. And who knows, maybe I will even find time to get back into the hobby and do something about that massive pile of grey plastic stored in my room.
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Future War Cultist wrote: A friend alerted me to a place that’s flogging hand wash for £19.99. There’s calls for a boycott....serves them right too imo.
Aren't there laws against that kind of price gouging?
Captain Joystick wrote: Have a friend who works retail, she told me someone bought 400 bucks worth of TP yesterday.
So of course I had to go down to my local grocery store and observe the chaos.
It actually wasn't so bad, only slightly more busy than I've usually seen it, and not the worst I'd ever seen it besides.
That said, the TP isle was completely barren.
Tellingly, the isle across from it was fully stocked with hand soap.
I'm baffled at the TP buy... why wouldnt you stock up on food. Why $400 worth?
tfw friends are buying ammo...
It's my understanding that most paper products (TP, paper towels, tissues, etc.) and cleaning supplies sold throughout the world are manufactured in China or at the very least their packaging is made in China. It might be awhile until shelves are able to be restocked.
Swineflu had issues, but it more hit farming communities and colleges rather than the whole population at large. Its like birdflu in that because the vector is an animal it hits those who work with livestock first and hits those industries and communities most of all.
This virus is transmitted through humans so it hits the whole population rather than a subset (and predominantly rural subset).
Heck my father collected birds and has seen that whole hobby take two massive bird-flu hits and that closed down a lot of hobby collectors and such.
Meanwhile my brother got swine flu whilst at agricultural college - which put him in hospital along with pneumonia - which was what made it deadly. Again like Corna, its not so much the actual sickness, its other things that take advantage when your immune system is compromised.
Future War Cultist wrote: A friend alerted me to a place that’s flogging hand wash for £19.99. There’s calls for a boycott....serves them right too imo.
Aren't there laws against that kind of price gouging?
In the US there are entire industries that work like that...
So TP and hand sanitizers are going to protect everyone from an airborne virus?
Wash your hands, like everyone normally should, and that’s really the best one can do.
Remember folks, breathing spreads the virus. When it’s in the air, avoiding doorknobs won’t help. Staying away from large crowds of people is probably the best defence against contraction.
It is unnerving how empty the city and public transportation is but I wont be able to see it much as we were approved to tele-work so Ill be avoiding the ferry commute and such. Have watched ferry ridership drop from a few hundred to maybe 100 in the last week and a half.
What is an impact is that my wife's employer is preparing to potentially temporarily lay off employees beginning April 1st so that will be a huge impact to our income. Fortunately, being a federal employee and the main bread winner for so long, we have prepared a "shutdown" fund so we should be ok for a bit.
Learned about 15 minutes ago that they cancelled my kids school through April 24th but they are both old enough to be independent so no biggie there (other than they wont have much of a summer break). The only challenge will be managing to get a stockpile of food to feed the kiddos since they wont be eating lunch at school. Teenagers consume ridiculous amounts of food...
Future War Cultist wrote: A friend alerted me to a place that’s flogging hand wash for £19.99. There’s calls for a boycott....serves them right too imo.
Aren't there laws against that kind of price gouging?
In the US there are entire industries that work like that...
There are laws, but they often only apply to essential services and products. Even then they can take time to get mobilised and take effect and are more geared at the big core industries and suppliers. It would focus more on essentials like breads and milks and the like; so soaps and suchlike might not be covered.
Of course some of them are not fixed laws but guidelines and best practice.
It's a far cry from price control where governments set fixed values for products.
Redcruisair wrote: Our government just announced our borders will be closed down due to the corona virus outbreak.
Food and other goods will still be able to pass through the borders, but no people. We're stuck here now.
All of this is super bizarre, like something out of a movie and not real life.
Welcome to a small taste of normal for most of human history, where contagion was an everyday fear (most everyone got smallpox at some point in their lives) and shutting travelers out of border crossings or cities was something that could happen at any time for good and bad reasons.
At least we have the capability for large scale measures to stop and (eventually) treat the disease itself as well as the symptoms.
Ghool wrote: So TP and hand sanitizers are going to protect everyone from an airborne virus?
Wash your hands, like everyone normally should, and that’s really the best one can do.
Remember folks, breathing spreads the virus. When it’s in the air, avoiding doorknobs won’t help. Staying away from large crowds of people is probably the best defence against contraction.
I didn't think it was airborne other than those moments whilst it's being sneezed?
Epidemics happen- and this is a very small taste of that reality (apparently I didn't emphasize that enough).
Be glad of the stupid number of advantages we have in comparison, especially in terms of medicine and care (even compared to a century ago, just past the practical edge of living memory), plus all the tech crap that lets us function remotely or even stupid self-checkout lines in stores where close contact with other people isn't required, or online stores where it doesn't happen at all.
I've lived through the Hong Kong flu in the 1960s, HIV/AIDS, Green Monkey disease, two lots of Ebola, Swine Flu, Bird Flu, Foot and Mouth (twice), SARS, MERS...
It's unique, particularly because it's so widespread. But obviously, it is nothing like Ebola, which has trouble spreading because it is so deadly and not a respiratory disease / not airborne.
Ghool wrote: So TP and hand sanitizers are going to protect everyone from an airborne virus?
Wash your hands, like everyone normally should, and that’s really the best one can do.
Remember folks, breathing spreads the virus. When it’s in the air, avoiding doorknobs won’t help. Staying away from large crowds of people is probably the best defence against contraction.
I didn't think it was airborne other than those moments whilst it's being sneezed?
From what I understand, the virus largely comes from droplets (sneezing, coughing in front of someone) and is not airborne to the point in which breathing infects a room. To add to Ghool’s advice regarding crowds, it may also be a good idea to wash your hands after going somewhere frequented by multiple people (eg. workplace, movie theatre, etc.) I’m sure everyone’s heard this before, but never hurts to get it out there.
Ebola is ,much easier to contain its main reason for spreading so fast was cultural and educational aspects in the countries it rose up in. After that there were mostly medical and support staff and volunteers who got infected. It required very direct contact of bodily fluids to transfer.
Corna is not only very easily spread but its got that week long incubation time when you can still be infectious. Which means you can spread it through a population very fast and a week later it only starts to rear its head in a few cases. With modern populations being so heavily mobile and heavily reliant on being mobile its very hard to fully lock down a population.
Heck we consider up to 1 hour being acceptable for commuting time. Which in the urban landscape might involve going through undergrounds, busses and more. Even a simple trip to the shops might have us encounter people from anywhere up to an hour from that store in a huge circle around it.
A simple cough into your hand which you then use to open a door and suddenly everyone who touches that same spot could potentially become infected and spread the virus. Even if you cough into a cloth you might still get enough on your skin to pass it on.
Curtailing the movement of livestock is one thing; curtailing the movement of 7 billion people is quite another.
Less then 50 people Max in restuarants, over 100 people organised Events are banned, schools closed Kantons have to provide babysitting Solutions, higher schools are closed aswell or now happening virtually.
we were at the grocery today and I completely forgot to see if there was any TP on that lane. I can't really recall anything being out of stock but there were many things on sale price and coupon ect. Mostly those shelves were empty. The store was very full of customers and it seemed like a lot of people which for where we live was a little unusual. I did see one person wearing one of those masks but paid him no mind. I'm such a bone head, I meant to remember to see how much or little TP was still in the store. Oh well, at least I remembered onions.
funny enough though I did touch the cart and a few items I felt no urge to touch my face. For as crowded as it was it did seem like people were giving each other a lot of room. I found that I was very tired while I was there but it is likely just a little bit of stress in the back of my mind, and the back pain, which can be exhausting.
It's times like these I really miss original formula ripped fuel, accept no substitutes.
Assuming you're under 60, you shouldn't be scared for yourself hotsauceman - but you should Definitely take all precautions to keep it from spreading, to keep others safe, particularly the elderly.
Weeks ago, Singapore said they have to move from a containment strategy to a mitigation one. Mitigation means we can't contain a disease, so live with it, like influenza or mumps. This "flattening of the curve" movement suggests mitigation. The idea is that, with social isolation, we slow down the spread and burden hospitals less, obviously accpting that people will be hospitalized, just at a slower rate.
Well, practice common sense, which seems to be all too rare these days. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area in California, which means not only do we have the highest number of infected, but also that we're in an earthquake zone and it's still the worse influenza season in a decade. That means all the preparation my elderly family has been taking prepares us against an earthquake (which too many Californians are not prepared for) and influenza (which is only serious when you have it). Yet our local government has been dragging its feet on school closures, and locals on forums only last week not taking this virus seriously. And, yes, passengers are still boarding cruise ships because their tickets are non-refundable. YOYO.
The worker I have to help me around and his mom are freaking out about it. I honestly think a lot of this is paranoia. I found myself more annoyed and pissed than scared. There have supposedly been 12 cases found in Michigan and everybody is panic buying everything in the stores. All the toilet paper was gone, probably all paper towels, noodles and similar things and people were buying it all right away. Thank god for the grocery store limiting how much people could buy per person but I imagine that's just gonna resort to multiple people per family buying each thing so they can buy it in bulk. There's always somebody somewhere that tries to bend the rules to their liking. I wish people weren't this paranoid about things. This has a 2% fatality rate overall and its worse if you're old. I imagine healthy or even average health citizens have nothing to worry about. It's thanks to everybody's stupid paranoia that I won't be able to wipe my ass for a while. So glad I come back from a vacation to everybody taking everything of value from the grocery stores.
Don't be scared, don't watch the news because they are only there to make you scared, so more people will tune in to make their advertisers happy. Just be cautious and clean. Hang out at home for a while, play some games, paint some stuff, listen to some metal.
Necros wrote: Don't be scared, don't watch the news because they are only there to make you scared, so more people will tune in to make their advertisers happy. Just be cautious and clean. Hang out at home for a while, play some games, paint some stuff, listen to some metal.
I'm not scared it's just sadly i'm at the mercy of people who are scared and panic buy all the crap I want preventing me from getting a good stock of toilet paper when I run out. I feel like people are panicking each other honestly.
Also the worker I have that's supposed to take me to the GW every weekend probably won't because he's scared of corona virus. I'd still go but I think the older members of the gaming community should be worried.
It's a self fuelling overhyped panic. It's on the news every day, which is fair enough as obviously it needs covering, but the way these people talk about it is unnecessary, and only going to result in a mass panic.
People need to calm down.
My grocery shop had manuka honey, so I'm happy. If I get the virus I'll just nuke it with honey and whisky toddies for 2 weeks.
It is unnerving how empty the city and public transportation is but I wont be able to see it much as we were approved to tele-work so Ill be avoiding the ferry commute and such. Have watched ferry ridership drop from a few hundred to maybe 100 in the last week and a half.
What is an impact is that my wife's employer is preparing to potentially temporarily lay off employees beginning April 1st so that will be a huge impact to our income. Fortunately, being a federal employee and the main bread winner for so long, we have prepared a "shutdown" fund so we should be ok for a bit.
Learned about 15 minutes ago that they cancelled my kids school through April 24th but they are both old enough to be independent so no biggie there (other than they wont have much of a summer break). The only challenge will be managing to get a stockpile of food to feed the kiddos since they wont be eating lunch at school. Teenagers consume ridiculous amounts of food...
You will make it through this.
Crisis is opportunity. I've been buying put options, made a significant amount of money this week betting that US energy companies will underperform.
Might be a good time to acquaint yourself with the stock market.
People may be panicking, but this is very serious. Follow the money. Look at what’s being cancelled and how much money is being lost. Consider how much business leaders would resist doing that. And think about the resources they have regarding medical guidance. It’s waaaaaaay beyond a PR move or something they did due to peer pressure.
Stay safe folks. That means taking care of yourself and making sure you don’t spread it to others, especially the elderly. Social distancing can work, so do it.
flamingkillamajig wrote: I imagine healthy or even average health citizens have nothing to worry about.
This is not true. There's is an immunological response in which the body overreacts with excessive inflammation at an infected site (in this case, the lungs). It's called a cytokine storm. It doesn't happen with just CoVid, and we already live with various immunological diseases, such as muscular dystrophy. If you've heard of how otherwise healthy Chinese victims between 20-40 years old suddenly developed lung problems and died in 4-5 days, a possible reason is this immunological response. The elderly and those with pre-existing conditions *are* the most vulnerable to dying from the virus (additionally, smokers are also vulnerable), but that does not mean healthy citizens have "nothing to worry about". I have not read any studies about those who have recovered from CoVid (cases suggest one can get reinfected), and am trying to find out if there are any permanent effects (eg. lung damage) from the virus. I'm sure once these unknowns become known (including vaccines developed against the virus), we'll have less panic and know how to deal with it.
oni wrote: It's my understanding that most paper products (TP, paper towels, tissues, etc.) and cleaning supplies sold throughout the world are manufactured in China or at the very least their packaging is made in China. It might be awhile until shelves are able to be restocked.
This is the incorrect rumor that STARTED the run on toilet paper.
90% of all TP sold in America is produced domestically. Even if all the 10% not produced domestically came from China (it doesn't), it wouldn't be THAT big a problem
EDIT: I'm starting to become quite worried about this.
No, not the virus itself. That's bad, but not panickworthy. What's worrying me is how the economy is starting to cannibalize itself. Things are starting to look very 2007 right now, and some economists are talking about rehashing 1929...
I went to the supermarket last night. No TP (for over a week.)
Lots of shelves cleared: medical, pasta, rice, flour, except for the most expensive. Tinned goods well thinned out.
Plenty of of fresh fruit and veg. Plenty of fresh meat and dairy. Eggs were thinned but still enough.
I'm nowhere near panicked, because we've got enough stuff to last a couple of weeks, but I'm starting to worry that if the panic buying doesn't stop, I will run out.
In other virus related news, a friend of my daughter at university was attacked and stabbed for being Chinese. He's from Hong Kong. He wasn't badly hurt, it was just cuts, but obviously it was very frightening. He said he felt said because no-one around wanted to help him.
The university has hired security guards to protect students during lectures, but this guy was on his way home from the pub.
In more positive news, I helped an oriental looking lady to get an item from a high shelf she couldn't reach in the supermarket.
I think it's a scary time to be Chinese looking now in the UK. That's wrong. We had enough racism and xenophobia already.
flamingkillamajig wrote: I imagine healthy or even average health citizens have nothing to worry about.
This is not true. There's is an immunological response in which the body overreacts with excessive inflammation at an infected site (in this case, the lungs). It's called a cytokine storm. It doesn't happen with just CoVid, and we already live with various immunological diseases, such as muscular dystrophy. If you've heard of how otherwise healthy Chinese victims between 20-40 years old suddenly developed lung problems and died in 4-5 days, a possible reason is this immunological response. The elderly and those with pre-existing conditions *are* the most vulnerable to dying from the virus (additionally, smokers are also vulnerable), but that does not mean healthy citizens have "nothing to worry about". I have not read any studies about those who have recovered from CoVid (cases suggest one can get reinfected), and am trying to find out if there are any permanent effects (eg. lung damage) from the virus. I'm sure once these unknowns become known (including vaccines developed against the virus), we'll have less panic and know how to deal with it.
This will still be quite rare , I work In high dependency and we do see this but is rare, age is a factor any article that says food will sort is dodgy, generally speaking if younger and fit the risk is much lower, but as with seasonal flu very rarely a young fit person does die. But once this outbreak /disaster is run its course sadly we will see predominantly that the deaths come from the elderly, infirm, disabled and chronic health conditions group.
I am actually quite concerned for people with other medical issues as I am concerned they will be ignored in favour of the coronavirus patients.
Stay safe, clean your hands , help your neighbours and vulnerable people and try to prove society can help each other.
Honest question, this surprises me a bit, do non of your governments reccomend / force you to have reserves of food and other necessities?
Lots of them theoretically recommend it. Buried somewhere on a CDC-equivelent webpage. Force? How would you force people to do so? Spot checks by the police? Lots of people also can't afford to, or live from paycheck to paycheck. Not us here with our expensive hobbies, of course, but even students prioritise (and often, badly - so "the pub" comes before food because instant ramen or whatever).
Is there psychological research on buying toilet paper? Yes, there is psychological research on toilet paper.
"In 1973, U.S. consumers cleared store shelves of the rolls for a month based on little more than rumors, fears and a joke. ... At the time, Americans were already worrying about limited supplies of products like gasoline, electricity and onions. A government press release warning of a potential shortage in toilet paper led to a lot of press coverage but no outright panic buying until Johnny Carson, a famous late night television host, joked about it during his opening monologue. Instead of laughing, people took it seriously and began to hoard toilet paper.
A risk expert in the country explained it this way: “Stocking up on toilet paper is … a relatively cheap action, and people like to think that they are ‘doing something’ when they feel at risk.” ... This is an example of “zero risk bias,” in which people prefer to try to eliminate one type of possibly superficial risk entirely rather than do something that would reduce their total risk by a greater amount. ... Hoarding also makes people feel secure. This is especially relevant when the world is faced with a novel disease over which all of us have little or no control. However, we can control things like having enough toilet paper in case we are quarantined. ... It’s also possible we are biologically programmed to hoard. Birds, squirrels and other animals tend to hoard stuff.
Aaand Greece has shut down... 2 dead as of today, people in the 60-90 years bracket. My boss gave half of us their remaining leave. Restaurants, theaters, clubs, courts, bars and all shops bar pharmacies and super markets shut down.
At least the weather here is getting better.
Honest question, this surprises me a bit, do non of your governments reccomend / force you to have reserves of food and other necessities?
Lots of them theoretically recommend it. Buried somewhere on a CDC-equivelent webpage. Force? How would you force people to do so? Spot checks by the police? Lots of people also can't afford to, or live from paycheck to paycheck. Not us here with our expensive hobbies, of course, but even students prioritise (and often, badly - so "the pub" comes before food because instant ramen or whatever).
Meh , you can't really say no to your own stipulations, also the whole minimal Standard is anyways enforced by neighbours, due to a System of Bunkers and maintenance of said , including of course reserves of Food and other necessities.
Case in point i am in a house with one that i potentially have to share Soo.
Also military institution goes through society as a whole due to mandatory conscription System so the state is allways here. kinda.
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konst80hummel wrote: Aaand Greece has shut down... 2 dead as of today, people in the 60-90 years bracket. My boss gave half of us their remaining leave. Restaurants, theaters, clubs, courts, bars and all shops bar pharmacies and super markets shut down.
At least the weather here is getting better.
I found a video showing how the state of things are in Iran, and Its not looking so good. For some reason the Iranian goverment has yet to close everything down and declare a state of emergency, even as the death count keeps rising.
Florida, in the US, has closed all schools until the end of March and is deep cleaning them in the hopes of slowing the spread of the virus.
The schoolboard is also refusing to let anyone come back to work after traveling out of the country or going on a cruise until they complete a quarantine period.
Gitzbitah wrote: Florida, in the US, has closed all schools until the end of March and is deep cleaning them in the hopes of slowing the spread of the virus.
The schoolboard is also refusing to let anyone come back to work after traveling out of the country or going on a cruise until they complete a quarantine period.
2020 the year summer vacation came extra early.
That might explain why the grocery store was so busy.
Gitzbitah wrote: Florida, in the US, has closed all schools until the end of March and is deep cleaning them in the hopes of slowing the spread of the virus.
The schoolboard is also refusing to let anyone come back to work after traveling out of the country or going on a cruise until they complete a quarantine period.
2020 the year summer vacation came extra early.
That might explain why the grocery store was so busy.
Yeah, expect pre-hurricane grocery conditions for a week or so as everybody stocks up.
The weirdest thing is that my county, Hillsborough won't be losing any school days- after our Spring break is over, we're supposed to do online school for our students. Theoretically, we won't end up losing any time and Summer break will come normally.I'm very curious to see how it works, and I imagine the powers that be will watch our test scores with great interest.
It wouldn't surprise me if students with non-critical examinations might get less attention. Whilst those with things like final GCSE and Alevels might well get a lions share of remote school attention. Purely because those exams do carry a lot of importance for those students
Well. 1,500 new cases in spain in a day, and the dead toll in madrid has doubled.
As I said, we are just starting here, people isn't taking this seriously enough (Or they are taking it TOO seriously) and we'll end up like Italy in no time.
Europe is a old-continent, the deaths here are gonna be big. I'm not afraid for myself but all my loved ones? Yeah. This is gonna be rought.
Also... is true that this Boris Johnson guy has said basically that people on the UK should be ready to lose loved ones? I found it in spanish-site news but could not find it on UK based ones.
When your friend on the bar says it you can go "Yeah, harsh but true".
In this case it may be the truth but when a politician says it is always in the "is inevitable, you can't have us take responsabilities for it" kind of way.
konst80hummel wrote: My boss gave half of us their remaining leave. Restaurants, theaters, clubs, courts, bars and all shops bar pharmacies and super markets shut down.
At least the weather here is getting better.
Same in Oslo, it is more or less a ghost town and will be for another 12 days. (alltough we can move out if we do not have the virus, but we have to be 1m from eachother)
The PM is considering closing the norwegian borders.
Can we ask Yakface to look at the thread please. This is the most important conversation on Dakka by a large margin. We need to support each other and keep each other informed. I request two levities for this thread.
1. That it be 'locked open', i.e. deal with any individuals that you have no choice but to deal with, but keep the conversation going in case anyone needs the reassurance, or space to vent when/if things get bad..
2. That the politics ban be lifted, on this thread only, due to 'extrordinary circumstances'. This is necessary as social problems of this scale are inherently political, and yet personally relevant to each one of us.
We are an international community and what we have been told and what conditions are imposed will differ from individual members. This is important for discussion yet the politics cannot be separated from it.
A lot of the consequences that relate to us and our testimonies will be directly related to central decision making. We had political discussion for two decades without Dakka blowing up, and we never had an issue that effected us individually and as deeply as we face today. Lets not have to dance around on egg shells because half the subject matter is off limits.
New Ghazkhul model is nice to talk about, but its nothing to lose sleep over if you cant get one locally, and exposure to Adepta Soroitas is not going to make you sick.
We need to think a few weeks ahead. It is inevitable that some of us will end up self isolating, or will be quarantined directly, or end up in a quarantine zone. Some are there already. Internet is a lifeline. For many of us Dakka IS our online community, and has been for some time. Facebook is vacuous, Dakka largely is not. Some might want to concentrate only on the gaming to put their minds at ease, others will want to communicate, some to vent, some to ask for reassurance. I think we should leave the door open. Will not be the first time people have wanted to chat with familiar yet still anonymous names about personal issues.
Also... is true that this Boris Johnson guy has said basically that people on the UK should be ready to lose loved ones? I found it in spanish-site news but could not find it on UK based ones.
It was in the Uk press.
Looking at that press conference from a psychological point of view. Johnson has said straight up there will be 'loved ones dying before their time' fairly sympathetic wording. This part of the speech was scripted, it isn't his normal turn of phrasing, and had none of his rancour.
It also indicated that this was now a game, there will be casualties, now with the public forewarned Johnson can direct pieces on the board and they become that. This type of power is exciting, intoxicating even. He has switched from bothering with Cobra when he got around to it to Cobra every day.
This says a lot about Johnson, though nothing we didn't already know. But with Johnson now taking up the mantle of Player One there is good news. Johnson does have strengths, he is intelligent, he also has balls, now he is seeing this crisis as a strategic game, he is likely to more easily make tough decisions, and likely make better ones.
The UK Strategy right now seems to be to basically try and create a smooth curve of infections rising and then a prolonged low steady rate followed by a dip off.
I think their view is that preventing infection entirely isn't really on the cards. The population is too freely mobile within itself even if you don't factor in anyone coming from overseas or travelling to and back from overseas. Furthermore this disease is dangerous, but not so supremely dangerous as to force locking everything down to an insane and highly disruptive degree.
Their view being that they can avoid the huge spikes that some other countries are suffering; with the expectation that the medical services will be able to better support a slower spread, even if it hits most of the population.
The risk is that it gets out of control. Sometimes draconian measures from on top can help reinforce people at the local level to take even basic precautions such as limiting trips; contact and washing more regularly.
Plus they know that "once its all over" the population will very quickly return to its normal mobility levels. Even regions like Hong Kong are likely going to have to suffer the disease spreading through the population. They've just been a lot better at containment and controlling the spread.
As for "losing loved ones" its a simple statement of blunt fact. To have avoided it or brushed it off would have been foolish. Confronting it head on in clear and simple language can be a key part in reinforcing the seriousness of the situation to many who might not feel at threat.
Also... is true that this Boris Johnson guy has said basically that people on the UK should be ready to lose loved ones? I found it in spanish-site news but could not find it on UK based ones.
Well he did say many will lose loved ones. Which is truth no matter what but in uk case will be quite many as plan is for herd immunity to develop. Too bad so far no herd immunity has really formed without vaccine which doesn't exists. And even if it did would require atleast about 60% of 65 million people catch it...even with 0.5% mortality that's over 300k deaths.
oni wrote: It's my understanding that most paper products (TP, paper towels, tissues, etc.) and cleaning supplies sold throughout the world are manufactured in China or at the very least their packaging is made in China. It might be awhile until shelves are able to be restocked.
This is the incorrect rumor that STARTED the run on toilet paper.
90% of all TP sold in America is produced domestically. Even if all the 10% not produced domestically came from China (it doesn't), it wouldn't be THAT big a problem
I don't buy that explanation. First the run on toilet paper is throughout the west, not limited to the US, and in Europe there was no scare on 'TP being Chinese import'.
No toilet paper is one of the quietly important products. Its unglamourous, but everyone uses it, it is low mass, but very high bulk. Supermarkets do not have much toilet paper in stock. A single reasonable shop for toilet paper will be not short of 1 or 2 cubic feet, depending on whether you get a 12 pack or a 24 pack. Only a few buyers are needed to void a large amount of store space. Enough toilet paper is being made, unlike hand gel, because normal use and peak use are the same. Hand gel ran out because a relatively unimportant product became of international importance. Bog roll is being used at the same rate as normal. However to ship a lot more toilet paper in a supermarket will need additional delivery lorries, and supermarket availability staff aren't able to cope with that.
However looking at my local town the 'panic buying' has now reached tins. People are gradually wising up and stockpiling. Be smart, join them. Its still early days in most of the west. Shop now, get stored goods and things you can put in the freezer. You do not want to have no choice but to go to get essential supplies in 6-8 weeks time at peak virus. Stock up now.
EDIT: I'm starting to become quite worried about this.
No, not the virus itself. That's bad, but not panickworthy. What's worrying me is how the economy is starting to cannibalize itself. Things are starting to look very 2007 right now, and some economists are talking about rehashing 1929...
You should be concerned for both. There is be a resource gap in the next month. People are complaining about panic buyers, they shouldn't, they should become one, and 'be part of the problem'. Panic buyers are just preppers who prepped after the disaster has begun to start. The real panic buying will occur after the 'panic buyers' have finished stocking. This last group is known (to preppers) as the Golden Horde. The 90+% of the population who made no preparations at all, and then get desperate.
Western society is linked by logistical threads. We are seeing some of these fail already, and increasing numbers will do so. Some industries are instantly flatlined when lockdown occurs, this is a financial trench, a sharp spike downwards which can ripple through the economy. So there will be a financial crisis, that is guaranteed now. Lessons from 2007 were not learned, many deliberately so as the resulting problems happened to other people. Now add that to flatlining industry subsectors and you have problems.
The third kick to the gut will be transport logistics itself taking a hit when international and then regional supply chains get interrupted by quarantine, and rise of infections amongst transport staff (who have high exposure) any delay on shipping will compoiund as it effects the logistical train from raw materials to product distribution.
Italy is already going to have to 'assume the position' they have shut down everything except pharmacies and groceries. That means no income for asizable percentage of the population and a collapse of parts of the industrial network which will inevitably effect the rest.
Coronavirus is not an issue out of proportion, its out of balance. It has the mass to put pressure on large parts of the societal network and that will have consequences.
I don't think the herd inmunity theory will play out.
At the same time I'm no expert and tbh I believe this is taking all the world with the pants down, so even experts will have a difficult time predicting how things will play out (That doesn't mean we shouldn't trust them of course)
Two weeks ago we were making fun of the chinese. A week ago from Italy. And we are here right now. At least other countries are taking example before things go so bad, unlike we did on Spain with Italy so close to us.
France on the other way, is really don't taking this seriously enough and I believe thats gonna end badly for them.
