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nfe wrote:
First UK MP case. Nadine Dorries is infected and has been in Parliament and in No. 10 in the last week.

I suspect as do alot of people that it is much more rife in communities than we think.
It will be interesting to hear how she caught it if we do.

Marxist artist wrote:

nfe wrote:
First UK MP case. Nadine Dorries is infected and has been in Parliament and in No. 10 in the last week.

I suspect as do alot of people that it is much more rife in communities than we think.
It will be interesting to hear how she caught it if we do.

It was the Iranian health minister who caught it first IIRC. I suppose they spend the most time visiting afflicted hospitals and the like due to the position.

Wow I didnt realise bird flu was so high on mortality scale. Didn't tons of people get that?

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Wow I didnt realise bird flu was so high on mortality scale. Didn't tons of people get that?

Bird people seriously need a bigger lobby.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Wow I didnt realise bird flu was so high on mortality scale. Didn't tons of people get that?

No not really, or at least not conclusively.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_mortality_from_H5N1

You get a statistical aberration. Often single confirmed cases resulting in death and discrepencies from 12-100% fatality rates per nation. Also single cases who survive rare infections are likely misdiagnosed. If you get an outbreak with one confirmed case and 100% fatality how many other people didn't die but were misdiagnosed because nobody was looking for bird flu.
The resulting statistics make it look nastier than Ebola Zaire, I remain sceptical that it is.

 Orlanth wrote:
Interesting point of view, which I will cover in sequence.

Pandabeer wrote:

I do feel the mainstream media are blowing the whole thing a tad out of proportion. Yes, COVID-19 is a problem, but the current draconic anti-virus measures that are currently being taken are purely due to the fact that COVID-19 is so fething contagious, not because it's so deadly. Authorities want to prevent the essential infrastructure of the world (food, energy, medical care, police etc.) from temporarily collapsing because everyone is sick at home. If COVID-19 would've had a R0 (how many people someone who carries COVID-19 infects on average) of 1 or less no one would've given a gak about it with it's current mortality rate. The problem is that COVID-19's R0 is about 2.5-4.0 I believe, meaning that there's a realistic chance essential infrastructure collapses for a time if the virus is given free reign.

It is not only the R0 which is a problem, but the fact that you can be reinfected shortly after the virus has already run its course and likely remain infectious throughout, the long incubation period (which is a major factor of the R0, but also of containment logistics), and that the virus appears to be mutating rapidly.

Pandabeer wrote:

If you are a healthy person under 60, you do NOT have to worry abouit COVID-19 posing a serious health risk to you. I feel the mainstream media are failing to bring this point across well enough, although maybe they're doing it to prevent people from becoming complacent. Yes, it's good to be careful and pay extra attention to hygiëne but panicking is not neccessary. Things like panic buying (and panicking in general) and hoarding are only counterproductive right now.

While this is not what you are currently thinking it means, I will say that up front to be fair to you. However what your comment actual reads is, "I'm alright Jack, if it wont kill me it's not a problem". Sorry this is wrong. It might not kill a young healthy person, but it will kill a lot of people who are not. It will disproportionately effect the elderly, those with underlying health conditions, the homeless and the destitute. I have no sources on how this effects infants, and pregnant or nursing mothers. I will grant you the benefit of the doubt in acknowledging those people do actually matter.

Pandabeer wrote:

Personally I'm much more stressed out by the impact on my personal life of the potential anti-virus measures (In the Netherlands the reaction has been surprisingly level-headed up till now) could have than that I'm afraid of the virus itself (I'm a healthy person in his early 30s so I don't see why I would end up in a hospital or even die) and I feel that that isn't taken into account enough in the response to COVID-19.

I hope I haven't given you too much credit in my preceding comment. Please tell us you are not a complete monsterous selfish c-word who doesn't care who dies so long as he doesn't have his life inconvenienced. You are unlikely to out yourself this easily if you were.
No, I think you haven't grasped how horrible the situation is because you can't face how horrible it is quite just yet, but underneath you are a decent enough guy who will realise that it can be a serious life-threat to a lot of other people, and some things have to change to minimise risk to them..

Pandabeer wrote:

Everyone is yapping on about mortality rates (quite unimpressive) and economic damage (why should I care if stock markets lose $1000 billion in illusory money)

Agree with you on the stock market aspect. Those feths need to get real. As for mortality rates, we have conflicting data, which points towards multiple strains of the bug. Though with the press being what it is, I would be slow to confirm anything without professional bodies pointing the way.

Pandabeer wrote:

but no one talks about the psychological impact of completely isolating yourself from the rest of the world for 2 weeks (even having to isolate yourself from your spouse and children living in the same house) if you've caught COVID-19 or having to think "should I wash my hands after this?" after every single thing that you do.

Ultimately that is first world problems level of issue. If you catch it, report it and self isolate, have a bad fortnight then carry on life. This much is true for the majority, and there is no cause for panic, only precaution. Even if you are sickly or elderly or both, your chances are still good, especially with western medicine.
That being said...
To be aware of occasional plagues is something modern Africans just have to live with, it doesn't effect us in Europe and America. Instead its something we see on social media or on TV as something that only happens over there. We read that some brown people died of ebola, then turn to the sports news with greater attention. Now it is at our door. There are runs on the shops, there are some deaths in our own hospitals and large scale quarantine of civilised places. Hopefully this rude awakening will be a silver lining to the cloud of infection: We have no inherent right to greater security from forces of nature than the average African, we merely assume we do.
Our ancestors faced far worse, so I am sure once we de-snowflake we will rise to the challenge.

If you start calling me what I assume is an erect male reproductory organ I have precious little will to continue this discussion with you, but here goes anyway:

You are wildly taking my comments out of context. I do not mean that countermeasures should not be taken, just that in many places authorities do not seem to consider the impact those measures have on people at all. Even acknowledging that it does and trying to help people to get through it would mean a lot. You can be the tough guy all you want but being isolated from the rest of the world for two weeks will have an impact on you. Even more so if you have a family and your own fething wife and children aren't even allowed to see you. And with the direction gak is going in now you can't go to the pub to unwind and be happy for a bit afterwards because the pub's going to be closed due to infection risk. And no one has any estimate about for how long these countermeasures are going to remain in place. Italy has already seen prison riots leading to 6 deaths over the lockdown because inmates were not allowed to see their family anymore. Yes I know, inmates aren't the most mentally stable people in the world but it is a warning about what is to come when normal people reach their psychological breaking point. Humans aren't made for social distancing. Take it too far for too long and there will be riots or even worse.

Fortunately bird flu was the disease that never was,

the virus mutated enough to jump from its normal host (birds) to humans and was pretty nasty for those that caught it,

but it failed to mutate enough to easily transmit from human to human (something that would have been fairly simple, either through mutation which happens every time flu reproduces, one of the reasons we have to redo the vaccines every year, or through somebody being infected with a human flu strain at the same time and the two related viruses hybridizing)

Pandabeer wrote:

If you start calling me what I assume is an erect male reproductory organ I have precious little will to continue this discussion with you, but here goes anyway:

I was giving you as much benefit of the doubt as possible, and will break the illusion without being overly unkind.

Pandabeer wrote:

You are wildly taking my comments out of context. I do not mean that countermeasures should not be taken, just that in many places authorities do not seem to consider the impact those measures have on people at all.

Sadly, I am not taking your comments out of context. I read your context and it is remarkably small minded, I think this is due to denial because the mounting reality of a pandemic is the diametric opposite of the casual lifestyle most people in western society are used to. The virus is also an unseen enemy and few people can actively confirm they are not infected due to the long incubation. You might not be thinking this, but your sub-conscious will be. Worriting over losing minor conveniences in a major crisis is a sign of greater shock, grief and disbelief, not moral deficiency on your part.

Pandabeer wrote:

Even acknowledging that it does and trying to help people to get through it would mean a lot. You can be the tough guy all you want but being isolated from the rest of the world for two weeks will have an impact on you. Even more so if you have a family and your own fething wife and children aren't even allowed to see you.

I am not being a internet tough guy when I say man up. Two weeks isolation is a minor inconvenience.. There are lonely people who have this as their life, or suffer this because the are immobilised by illness. In the case of self isolation people are just getting on with it, and most are not complaining. It is a small sacrifice for the common good.

Pandabeer wrote:

And with the direction gak is going in now you can't go to the pub to unwind and be happy for a bit afterwards because the pub's going to be closed due to infection risk.

First world problems. Seriously. First world problems.

You are not: in an iron lung, in prison, paralysed, bed bound, patroling the jungle, stuck in trench in Afghanistan, in the Gaza strip during lockdown, or anywhere in North Korea.

My father has been bed bound for eighteen months. He can also get very lonely being in bed all day every day. I am sure he would like to go to the pub too.
If being unable to get to the pub because of Coronavirus is the worst it gets for you, rejoice! Let me thoroughly bless you by hoping it gets no worse for you than that!

Pandabeer wrote:

And no one has any estimate about for how long these countermeasures are going to remain in place. Italy has already seen prison riots leading to 6 deaths over the lockdown because inmates were not allowed to see their family anymore.

Prisons are full of douches. However even so I bet the majority of the prison population in Italy will understand. Likely it was just an excuse for a riot and an everyday part of prison politics. No family visits can be hard but internal lockdowns are worse, and extended lockdowns are a part of life in many prisons.

Pandabeer wrote:

Yes I know, inmates aren't the most mentally stable people in the world but it is a warning about what is to come when normal people reach their psychological breaking point. Humans aren't made for social distancing. Take it too far for too long and there will be riots or even worse.

[tough love]

Humans take to social distancing at lot easier than you suspect. You will too. People are doing their 14 day self quarantine without complaint for the most part. There are some whingers, but there always will be. You need some perspective on the costs involved.
Our current generation in the west has it easy. So it's easy to deceive yourself into thinking minor issues like a 14 day quarantine are a major disruption and a danger to psychological health. Most people outside the golden billion would find 14 days trapped in a room with an average westerners personal resources at their disposal would be the best days of their lives, a true luxury.
Sorry please de-snowflake, for your own good.

Now I would return much sympathy to you if you are on the gig economy and if you don't work you don't eat. I hope governments do more for jobseekers and gig economy workers in this time. You haven't mentioned this as a factor though, so I doubt it applies to you as you would have thought about it. Instead you worry about not being able to unwind at the pub. Sorry that is an inconvenience for you, and will go as far as to say you have done nothing to deserve it. But its a major case of first world problems and you need some perspective.

No I don't think you are a p-word. You are a modern western citizen used to easy living in a mostly safe society. You are on Dakka because you can afford an expensive hobby, one way or another. You have had it easy, but now its like 1939 with storm clouds are on the horizon. You are not promised perpetual good times by anyone with the power to grant you them. Chin up, it will be alright. You just have to recognise things aren't going to be the same, for a while at least.

[/tough love]

Imagine if they have to deep clean the Palace of Westminster.

She appears to have held a constituency surgery and attended cabinet after feeling unwell.

Interesting to see how the budget deals with economic fallout. Banks are beginning to offer mortgage holidays, hopefully we get provisions for renters and, especially, hourly paid and gig economy workers. Nothing undermines isolation more than needing to work.

Would not be surprising if a few more in the cabinet got it then.

With greatest deference anyone who is not prepared to do 2 weeks quarantine for the potential benefit of at risk people are selfish and when / if they are to contract something be it when they are more at risk I would remind them of their opinions they used to have. Also as with any virus there are always fit and healthy people who still unfortunately die from these. Flu does kill young and healthy people albeit rarely.

Think 2 week concentrated modelling ,that army could be finished.

Meanwhile, people flying into the UK from Italy are being told to self isolate immediately but are given no transport home - and many are being landed in airports other than the ones they were originally meant to, so long public transport journeys in many cases).

Sensational logistic planning.

less of the insults please.

so in Egypt ..



https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=h_GUpN1lqIY&feature=emb_logo


bet no-one saw this reboot coming.

I'm hearing E3 got cancelled or has an impending cancellation announcement, which in a way is not much of a surprise. I expect if the hysteria continues san diego comic con might be next. I'm not too worried about it, more worried about certain family members. I don't spend enough time in public to be at much risk tbh.

Are all viruses because of pinhead?

That is my understanding, yes.

On the up-side, at least stocking up food for a few weeks is easier when you still have electrical power. Compared to a natural disaster there's a lot more viable food to load up on.

nfe wrote:
She appears to have held a constituency surgery and attended cabinet after feeling unwell.

Interesting to see how the budget deals with economic fallout. Banks are beginning to offer mortgage holidays, hopefully we get provisions for renters and, especially, hourly paid and gig economy workers. Nothing undermines isolation more than needing to work.

Jobseekers also. This will be hard on people on universal credit also, as they are expected to travel a bit.
I would like the government to simply turn UC entitlement 'on' for any who step in and out of eligibility, cancel signing on requirements and other procedures for a period of time. New claimants should still be forced to apply normally, as undoubtably there will be a rise in attempted fraud.
A blanket activation of UC entitlement would help gig workers a lot, give them extra money and the cushion to stop temp work in this time.
Most importantly it would help those on work based ESA, and UC equivalentwho are already disabled buy unlike support based ESA claimants do have to engage in the same activities as the unemployed. The disabled are already of critical vulnerability.

 reds8n wrote:
less of the insults please.

so in Egypt ..

Spoiler:

..they had someone dress up in a Pinhead costume and pretend to be a manifestation of the virus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=h_GUpN1lqIY&feature=emb_logo


bet no-one saw this reboot coming.

Where do you find this stuff?

Top marks to the building management team.

Yeah, lets have a fire drill. Couple of thousand people in close proximity in a car park.

slow clap.

Staple some adamantium skulls in 'em and call it a day Doc Grotsnik.

Marxist artist wrote:
With greatest deference anyone who is not prepared to do 2 weeks quarantine for the potential benefit of at risk people are selfish and when / if they are to contract something be it when they are more at risk I would remind them of their opinions they used to have. Also as with any virus there are always fit and healthy people who still unfortunately die from these. Flu does kill young and healthy people albeit rarely.

Think 2 week concentrated modelling ,that army could be finished.

Absolutely this. I'd love a fortnight's self isolation. I'm almost tempted to fake it. Have some me-time with the modelling / painting / video-gaming / Netflix backlogs...

 reds8n wrote:
less of the insults please.

so in Egypt ..

Spoiler:

..they had someone dress up in a Pinhead costume and pretend to be a manifestation of the virus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=h_GUpN1lqIY&feature=emb_logo


bet no-one saw this reboot coming.

Just wow that says a lot about Egypt. But did they get the voice right is the real question.

"COVID-19 just what are you? "

"A daemon to some and angel to other's!"

Catholic churches in Italy are apparently having services outside with a 3m distance between worshippers.

I suspect italians, having been hit so hard, are much more reasonable about it than our esteemed Lord's shepherds.
Funnily enough, they did cancel some sort of bishop's get-together due to the risk of infection.

konst80hummel wrote:
Here in Greece, with less than 100 cases reported, the government has ordered all schools closed.... Apparently they fear the children as carriers more than as patients.

We should always fear the children.

Even those who don’t worship He Who Coughs Behind the Rows.

Its officially a Pandemic.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-51839944

.....Coronavirus confirmed as pandemic by World Health Organization

The coronavirus outbreak has been labelled a pandemic by the World Health Organization (WHO).

WHO chief Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said the number of cases outside China had increased 13-fold over the past two weeks.

He said he was "deeply concerned" by "alarming levels of inaction" over the virus.

A pandemic is a disease that is spreading in multiple countries around the world at the same time.

However, Dr Tedros said that calling the outbreak a pandemic did not mean the WHO was changing its advice about what countries should do.....

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

konst80hummel wrote:
Here in Greece, with less than 100 cases reported, the government has ordered all schools closed.... Apparently they fear the children as carriers more than as patients.

We should always fear the children.

Even those who don’t worship He Who Coughs Behind the Rows.

Kids are disease carrying pox walkers anyway. I would rather they be quarantined IN school and leave us adults to get on fighting each other for the last rolls of Toilet Tissue.

In Germany they started setting up drive-thru testing facilities for coronavirus.

"Yes I would like some fries and a large soda with my virus test result please"

https://twitter.com/dwnews/status/1237792653175111682?s=20

It's officially a pandemic? That's bad; I've never beaten that game.