72319
Post by: highlord tamburlaine
Really? It did have the glasses after all? 
That's what kept me from ordering one!
I wanted the Storm Knight pinup too! And when I finally decide to order it, I click on the shop and it's nothing but expansions again! Ugh...
Least I got a druid.
42013
Post by: Sinful Hero
New plastics!  I know where I'm headed first!
72319
Post by: highlord tamburlaine
Just as long as they offer the same stuff online for those of us who don't attend, all is well.
Fingers crossed he offers the SciFi Twilight Knight again as well, as the day I went to order on he took them down from the website.
1814
Post by: mboehm
New plastic miniatures! Woo hoo!
Must... keep... refreshing... website....
Also, anyone on-site, please please post pictures and info of what you see in their booth! Thanks!
40919
Post by: spiralingcadaver
anyone who's open to being a gencon shopping ninja, please PM me, thanks!
42013
Post by: Sinful Hero
Shared a few photos from Gencon to the Facebook group. New plastics with in-game content. Scifi Flower Knight resin, Scifi plastic White Speaker.
I'll share here later when I catch a break.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, plus shirts and art prints.
123
Post by: Alpharius
I can't find those pics - if you can post them, please post a link to them - thanks!
22639
Post by: Baragash
 Alpharius wrote:I can't find those pics - if you can post them, please post a link to them - thanks!
Try this?
https://www.facebook.com/groups/863706623696679/permalink/1043874315679908/
7375
Post by: BrookM
Yeah, need to join the group first, pass.
33289
Post by: Albino Squirrel
I wish he wouldn't waste money on limited edition plastic sci-fi promos, then tell me he can't afford to ship my kickstarter rewards so I have to pay more for something I already paid for. Which I assume he'll do again with the Lantern Festival expansion.
61979
Post by: DaveC
Elizabeth Beckley posted a video
https://www.facebook.com/elizabeth.beckley.92/videos/10153962504139472/
Looks like there's a new bigger Screaming Antelope or a version there of.
EDIT: It's just known as the Screaming God
42013
Post by: Sinful Hero
It's the Screaming God.
Link
Other link.
61979
Post by: DaveC
Some more images
http://imgur.com/a/CLI24
Some new minis and cards for the KS promos including the Twilight Thong!
40919
Post by: spiralingcadaver
Was just saying over on BGG, not really satisfied with this new system- there'll be a ton of people out there who have allison and the white speaker already, since the former was in a bundle and both were survivor bonuses.
And they still haven't released the game content that was supposed to come with the individuals from the KS.
If this is a nice bundle, I could be interested, if not, I'll be a bit irritated.
72319
Post by: highlord tamburlaine
Just let those of us not attending have a crack at these new figures!
Anyone there know if the sci fi twilight knight is available again?
40919
Post by: spiralingcadaver
Post certainly implied she was there.
7375
Post by: BrookM
Well now, I'd love to get the cards that come with that Twilight Knight, it's my favourite model in my collection.
9594
Post by: RiTides
Oh man, that's a cool beast!
By the way, I've been looking futilely for a 40 Years Savior for some time now. Does anyone at GenCon know if they have them, and if not could anyone here point me to where I might find one? Willing to pay about ebay prices, just can't locate.
60720
Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
Can't help with the gencon end of things, but
If you facebook join the KD group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/863706623696679/
and put out a plea and you may well get somebody with one to sell or trade (there's a traders document in the files section that may help you determine the reliability of any potential seller/swapper)
43716
Post by: kilcin
Now I wish I had a Gencon Ninja shopper for the scifi flower knight....
123
Post by: Alpharius
I couldn't find the pic of the SF Flower Knight - help!
4670
Post by: Wehrkind
Wow, actually laughed out loud at "Twilight Thong". That's some thing right there.
60720
Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
SF flower knight
https://www.facebook.com/elizabeth.beckley.92/videos/10153962504139472/
 Automatically Appended Next Post: and just because it too cool not to share
Scott Hockley/The Black Hand's Blog
As seen at Gencon. The big job I worked on recently. Core set, statue style.
Had a lot of fun posing these out, and I used nearly every weapon option. There's also one very small conversion on the Lantern armour, where I used the horseshoe shaped collars to create shoulder guards (Yeah, that's what those tiny bits are actually for! kiki emoticon^_^ )
Credit to Thomas David for sorting out the scheme too. smile emoticon
40919
Post by: spiralingcadaver
I don't get it. Harsh light? Highlit priming? What's there?
7375
Post by: BrookM
They're painted up to look like black and white, or like statues.
42013
Post by: Sinful Hero
Scifi Twilight Knight is for sale at the con. Talking to Adam he said its a Gencon promo- I don't know if that implies it'll be available every Gencon, or he was just telling me it was exclusive to the con.
I can take a better pic of the Scifi Flower Knight if anyone wants it, or doesn't like my thumb in the picture. 
43716
Post by: kilcin
 Sinful Hero wrote:Scifi Twilight Knight is for sale at the con. Talking to Adam he said its a Gencon promo- I don't know if that implies it'll be available every Gencon, or he was just telling me it was exclusive to the con.
I can take a better pic of the Scifi Flower Knight if anyone wants it, or doesn't like my thumb in the picture.
While I appreciate the shot of the sprue, would prefer better shots of the assembled product and art.
61647
Post by: PsychoticStorm
Both sci fi models look great!
42013
Post by: Sinful Hero
 kilcin wrote: Sinful Hero wrote:Scifi Twilight Knight is for sale at the con. Talking to Adam he said its a Gencon promo- I don't know if that implies it'll be available every Gencon, or he was just telling me it was exclusive to the con.
I can take a better pic of the Scifi Flower Knight if anyone wants it, or doesn't like my thumb in the picture.
While I appreciate the shot of the sprue, would prefer better shots of the assembled product and art.
Maybe tomorrow, if someone doesn't beat me to it.
43716
Post by: kilcin
From Elizabeth Beckley-Bradford on the KD facebook page, the same person that posted the video.
68139
Post by: Barzam
He looks like something out of a video game. Too bad he's show exclusive.
72319
Post by: highlord tamburlaine
By show exclusive hopefully they mean "while Gen Con is happening" exclusive so those of us at home can get a shot at one.
Same thing happened with the twilight knight last year.
Plus the thing looks like a Keita Amemiya design.
92270
Post by: Chopxsticks
Im super excited Poots has the time to create and manufacture new plastics and game content and not finish delivery the Lantern Festival. Man how annoying if that thing showed up this year, am I right!
40919
Post by: spiralingcadaver
Hey, does anyone have these and is willing to share if they have gear recipes on the back? There are the ones that are obviously based on events where I assume they're fine, but, for the other ones it'd be cool to see what they take.
7075
Post by: chaos0xomega
I picked up the Scifi Twilight Night and Scifi White Speaker, both were billed as being "exclusive". The people I talked to said they didnt know if the other 8 pinups with game content (and the pinups of death box which included the belt of genderswap) would be made available online or if they would be available in quantity, but they assumed that we would be seeing them online at some point.
27782
Post by: Mr.Church13
"Any overstock will be sold online" that's what we got told here. So I'm thinking it's pretty much exclusive to this con because they were almost bare after yesterday on everything.
33289
Post by: Albino Squirrel
Chopxsticks wrote:Im super excited Poots has the time to create and manufacture new plastics and game content and not finish delivery the Lantern Festival. Man how annoying if that thing showed up this year, am I right!
No kidding. I wish he'd put more effort into finishing the stuff I paid for, what, like three years ago now? Instead of making new stuff that only people who can go to gen con can get. On top of that, I fully expect that when he's finally finished Lantern Festival, he'll make us all pay extra for him to ship it to us (which violates Kickstarter's terms), claiming he can't afford the shipping.
7375
Post by: BrookM
He also still needs to do PROPER guides for putting your models together, the fan one he keeps linking to right now is inadequate.
72319
Post by: highlord tamburlaine
That really sucks if its all just for the show.
Then again considering how often he does encore pieces, I guess there's hope that everything shows up in the store.
Not an exclusives fan by any stretch of the imagination...
40919
Post by: spiralingcadaver
Albino Squirrel wrote:Chopxsticks wrote:Im super excited Poots has the time to create and manufacture new plastics and game content and not finish delivery the Lantern Festival. Man how annoying if that thing showed up this year, am I right!
No kidding. I wish he'd put more effort into finishing the stuff I paid for, what, like three years ago now? Instead of making new stuff that only people who can go to gen con can get. On top of that, I fully expect that when he's finally finished Lantern Festival, he'll make us all pay extra for him to ship it to us (which violates Kickstarter's terms), claiming he can't afford the shipping.
Yeah... someone on BGG was complaining about how he had no loyalty to his customers, and I've gotta' agree, it's starting to sour my feelings about his company that he has time and money to make promo gear to sell to push his sculpts, but not make the time to...
make the promo gear that was sold to push his KS sculpts, that he then said he'd charge us for
make guides
at least point out which pieces were mislabeled (like A1 not going with A2, or various hands or legs that don't get put in sequentially)
make the expansion we'd paid for
put up PDFs for the alternate record sheets
7375
Post by: BrookM
I don't suppose someone could ask him when he's going to pick up work on the KS fulfilment again? Also if we're supposed to pay for surprise shipping again..
92270
Post by: Chopxsticks
Last I recall it was mentioned in an update that we would be informed of the Lantern Festival in a September announcement?
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
Twilight Thong!
42013
Post by: Sinful Hero
 spiralingcadaver wrote:Hey, does anyone have these and is willing to share if they have gear recipes on the back? There are the ones that are obviously based on events where I assume they're fine, but, for the other ones it'd be cool to see what they take.
Yes, I know for sure the tabard for "Before the Wall" has a recipe on the back.
63356
Post by: Dentry
 highlord tamburlaine wrote:By show exclusive hopefully they mean "while Gen Con is happening" exclusive so those of us at home can get a shot at one.
Same thing happened with the twilight knight last year.
Plus the thing looks like a Keita Amemiya design.
Yes, I believe that'll be the case. But I don't remember if there was a delay between when the models became available at Gencon and when they were available online; think that was the case.
I want all the content but I'm not sure I want all the models this time. Will have to wait for better pictures.
53843
Post by: Ignatius-Grulgor
I really hope the gencon stuff does make it to the webstore, I'd set aside funds in anticipation of it this year 
87942
Post by: ubik2000
This is frustrating. I have a friend at GenCon but I don't even know what to tell him to get me.
I assume it's all sold out by now in any case.
61647
Post by: PsychoticStorm
So what do we tell them in case something is not sold out?
61647
Post by: PsychoticStorm
Do we have the names of the kits?
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
http://www.beastsofwar.com/liveblogentry/kingdom-death-confirms-reprint-kickstarter-plans-for-this-year/
I wonder if there will be a "rules only" pledge for existing backers to get the 1.4 version of the rules and other print upgrades.
92270
Post by: Chopxsticks
This just adds to my frustration honestly. We still don't have the Lantern Festival and now news of a reprint of the rules via a Kickstarter... This game just feels like a mess.
42013
Post by: Sinful Hero
ubik2000 wrote:This is frustrating. I have a friend at GenCon but I don't even know what to tell him to get me.
I assume it's all sold out by now in any case.
PsychoticStorm wrote:Do we have the names of the kits?
Pinups of Death
Scifi White Speaker
Scifi Twilight Knight
Pinup Order Knight
Beyond the Wall
Before the Wall
Pinup of the Sun
White Speaker
Fade
Allison the Twilight Knight
Perceval
Plus all the expansions.
Pretty sure it's all still there. He's been restocking daily.
61647
Post by: PsychoticStorm
Nice thanks!
61979
Post by: DaveC
KDU#17 - Gencon!
Quick email from gencon. It's awesome here! So many fans have been sharing their love and just gushing about their fun with the game. In fact, we even got in trouble with gencon security for having too big of a line!!!
Anyway, just wanted to let people know a few things:
New Single Releases are $20 at the show, they will be $25 online.
Beyond the Wall, White Speaker (the kickstarter gift) and Allison the Twilight Knight had a new production run and I added some game content to their boxes. We will be putting a little card pack together for their content, for people that already have the figure.
The expansions we have on the floor are all $10 - $25 off!
We'll get the new stuff up on the online store soon as we get home and recover
40919
Post by: spiralingcadaver
Immediately feeling better about that. Still think it's a near-GW-level of expensive models for very little content, but I don't feel cranky about being punished for buying them before.
72319
Post by: highlord tamburlaine
I'm not feeling better about a 5 dollar price hike just because I can't make it to the show to purchase them.
That's going to add up real fast if I pick up all those new figures, especially if they're all available at the same time. Could get a few more figures for that extra amount it'll cost me... oh well.
Good news about the card pack at least.
40919
Post by: spiralingcadaver
Eh, everything's discounted there, which, as someone who's sold stuff at cons, I find perfectly reasonable- you don't want to need to take stuff back, want to make it quicker sales, and it's way easier than packing orders.
Not as fun for those of us who can't make it, but, again, I understand why.
42013
Post by: Sinful Hero
People who attended the Con also had to pay for housing, gas, and tickets to access the Exhibit Hall... I'd say y'all got a deal.
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
That $5 discount is because he's doing bulk sales from a pallet, vs individual sales with shipping & receiving. Administratively, it's probably more efficient for him than charging the $5 and dealing with the pick & pack for 1s & 2s per mail order customer.
A single-day pass at Gencon is $50+, so that's the delta on 10 items right there. If you're local, great. If you're flying/driving, and getting a hotel, waiting to buy is cheaper.
60720
Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
The store now has the gencon stuff up
http://shop.kingdomdeath.com/
(note ordering stock from a warehouse outside your region will add $100 to your shipping bill so if they've run out you may want to wait till the inevitable restock)
61979
Post by: DaveC
Fade is currently missing I can't complete the order until they fix that. The new minis can only be ordered from the US warehouse
60720
Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
and here's the post gencon newsletter & KS update
https://kingdomdeath.tumblr.com/post/149041140310/kdu18-post-gencon-2016-sale Automatically Appended Next Post:  DaveC wrote:Fade is currently missing I can't complete the order until they fix that. The new minis can only be ordered from the US warehouse
Drat I really, really wanted her
(I hope there's stock on the way the the EU and AUS warehouses if the current US only is deliberate as I'm happy to wait as I cant afford the extra cost hit)
61647
Post by: PsychoticStorm
sigh 200$ plus another 100$ for shipping and unknown custom tax....
68162
Post by: Undead_Love-Machine
Yeah, shipping prices are outrageous.
I added the new plastic bundle to my cart ($200?? I must be out of my mind) and the old plastic bundle, along with a t-shirt.
Shipping came to $66.
$66??????
I removed the old plastic set and the t-shirt, shipping then became a slightly less ball-bustingly absurd $43.
I pulled the trigger, then had instant buyer's remorse.
59050
Post by: pancakeonions
The OP current has something about Kingdom Death Quest, a mass-market game with PVC minis.
Is there any more information on this anywhere, or is this brand new info?
Thanks!
61979
Post by: DaveC
Order complete - 6 new minis shipping was $29. Fade can be ordered. The order button is hidden but if you move the mouse around the cursor will change to a hand when you hover over the (hidden) add to cart button.
VAT might add another €37 to the order :(
EDIT: Fade is now totally gone they must be fixing it.
68162
Post by: Undead_Love-Machine
Maybe I'm totally wrong, but it's looking like the high shipping prices is a way to increase the profit margins?
Hopefully my American cousins can educate me, does it realy cost £66 to post some plastic figures and a t-shirt to Europe?
I've got a lot of good will towards Poots, but no-one likes to be bent over and taken advantage of.
7375
Post by: BrookM
Shipping from the US to ROW has certainly gone up considerably over the last few years, but nothing we can do about it except buy stuff elsewhere whenever possible.
60720
Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
probably less to make more money, but more to keep the paperwork and time needed to do the international shipping all over the planet from flooding the US office (which I think is still basically the development crew too)
since he now has warehouses elsewhere Adam will want the relevant people to use them
68162
Post by: Undead_Love-Machine
 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:probably less to make more money, but more to keep the paperwork and time needed to do the international shipping all over the planet from flooding the US office (which I think is still basically the development crew too)
since he now has warehouses elsewhere Adam will want the relevant people to use them
If he wanted me to order from the EU warehouse he would surely put some stock in said warehouse 
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
Maybe it takes time and money to move items from the US to EU / other warehouses... 
68162
Post by: Undead_Love-Machine
 JohnHwangDD wrote:Maybe it takes time and money to move items from the US to EU / other warehouses...
Yeah, I'm sure it does.
But all of the leftover gencon stock was/is being sold off from the main US warehouse so I'm not sure what point you are trying to make?
Unless there is some earlier info that I missed?
72319
Post by: highlord tamburlaine
That says something when you have no qualms with dropping that kind of cash sight unseen on little plastic figures.
Well I guess not really sight unseen, as most of of us have scoped them out already.
Happy to have gotten both boxes of pinups. I had regretted not getting the pinups of death at all previous opportunities.
I think Fade and the Order Knight are probably my favorite of the new bunch.
Having a plastic Warrior of the Sun has put my resin one on indefinite hold sadly.
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
I have slight angst at paying a few bucks more for expansions when they were available earlier, but then I consider how much less I paid overall, and I'm good with it.
If you haven't already gotten the various expansions, saving ~20% via the post-Gencon sale is a great time to get them!
55577
Post by: ImAGeek
So, I haven't been following that closely and this might be a silly question, but the board game that the Kickstarter was for, will that ever be released properly?
91534
Post by: anab0lic
These LE models only being available in the US warehouse is going to end up pissing off a lot of people.... No way am I ordering with those shipping fees + custom charges on top.
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
 ImAGeek wrote:So, I haven't been following that closely and this might be a silly question, but the board game that the Kickstarter was for, will that ever be released properly?
You're asking whether the $400 MSRP Kickstarter version of Kingdom Death : Monster was released properly to non-backers?
As far as I'm concerned, it was.
I mean, you weren't expecting to find boxes of KD:M at Toys R Us at a $500 retail price point, were you?
55577
Post by: ImAGeek
JohnHwangDD wrote: ImAGeek wrote:So, I haven't been following that closely and this might be a silly question, but the board game that the Kickstarter was for, will that ever be released properly?
You're asking whether the $400 MSRP Kickstarter version of Kingdom Death : Monster was released properly to non-backers?
As far as I'm concerned, it was.
I mean, you weren't expecting to find boxes of KD:M at Toys R Us at a $500 retail price point, were you?
No, that's not what I mean. I mean will it be available on the webstore.
72319
Post by: highlord tamburlaine
The game is getting a reprint, but that's all that's known.
I'm sure as details surface they'll end up on all corners of the web, Dakka included.
63356
Post by: Dentry
Did anyone notice this?
They're sold out but I didn't see them in the newsletter and weren't available on the site when I placed my order earlier. Just noticed them by chance because I went back to see what exactly was in the new $200 pinup set.
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
ImAGeek wrote: JohnHwangDD wrote: ImAGeek wrote:So, I haven't been following that closely and this might be a silly question, but the board game that the Kickstarter was for, will that ever be released properly?
You're asking whether the $400 MSRP Kickstarter version of Kingdom Death : Monster was released properly to non-backers?
As far as I'm concerned, it was.
I mean, you weren't expecting to find boxes of KD:M at Toys R Us at a $500 retail price point, were you?
No, that's not what I mean. I mean will it be available on the webstore.
Oh, if that's the question, then, yes, the Kickstarter edition of KD:M was available on the KD:M webstore for a while. I saw it up there at one point. It has since been sold out for months now, much to many people's surprise.
Adam has announced that there will be some sort of encore production of KD:M, although he has not yet specified what, exactly, it will be. Aside from including an improved rulebook.
Personally, I suspect that he will repackage it as a less expensive, smaller, easier-to-ship product, with an optional hardback rulebook. The gameboard will likely have another fold in it, and he should probably move some of the monsters and/or extra content to separate expansions.
15753
Post by: Schmapdi
 Dentry wrote:Did anyone notice this?
They're sold out but I didn't see them in the newsletter and weren't available on the site when I placed my order earlier. Just noticed them by chance because I went back to see what exactly was in the new $200 pinup set.
It reminds me that the thing I want most from my KD:M pledge is the digital art book - which seems like would be the EASIEST thing in the world to fulfill, but somehow we still don't have it.
42013
Post by: Sinful Hero
Undead_Love-Machine wrote:Maybe I'm totally wrong, but it's looking like the high shipping prices is a way to increase the profit margins?
Hopefully my American cousins can educate me, does it realy cost £66 to post some plastic figures and a t-shirt to Europe?
I've got a lot of good will towards Poots, but no-one likes to be bent over and taken advantage of.
Trying to ship a small 2"x4" box of bits to the UK was going to cost me $100 talking to Fedex or UPS apparently, but it was supposedly going to arrive in a few days. Cheapest flat-rate box I've found to UK was USPS at $33.
Probably depends on what carrier he's going to use.
pancakeonions wrote:The OP current has something about Kingdom Death Quest, a mass-market game with PVC minis.
Is there any more information on this anywhere, or is this brand new info?
Thanks!
It's from around last December I think- don't remember exactly when. No other info about it, other than Poots is hoping he can do it someday.
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:Maybe I'm totally wrong, but it's looking like the high shipping prices is a way to increase the profit margins?
Hopefully my American cousins can educate me, does it realy cost £66 to post some plastic figures and a t-shirt to Europe?
I've got a lot of good will towards Poots, but no-one likes to be bent over and taken advantage of.
You're totally wrong.
It would definitely cost $66 USD to ship a few figures and T-shirt to the UK.
https://ircalc.usps.com/MailServices.aspx?country=10150&m=13&dpb=0&mdt=2016/08/17%2008:00&mt=12&dok=XX&dvi=100
I'm pretty sure Adam doesn't want to be taken advantage of, which is why he's passing the actual $66 USD cost through.
59984
Post by: RivenSkull
Yeah, I recall him posting somewhere that they had gotten over 5000 messages regarding "missing items" for KD:M shipments, hence the shift in shipping costs a number of months ago to more trackable methods.
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
To be fair, 5,000 messages could easily have been the Spidicules leg issues alone. 
68162
Post by: Undead_Love-Machine
Wow, other US companies that are able to ship items to me of a similar weight and size for a fraction of the cost being charged here must be using some kind of super-secret teleportation method that Poots doesn't have access to
Anyway, I don't think it's been mentioned yet but there will be an announcement regarding the Lantern Festival in September, I'm guessing we may have to pay shipping for that too, but who knows? It may be good news.
***EDIT**** Wait, I entirely forgot, Poots himself must have found one of the secret cheaper methods of posting because my shipping was reduced to approx $40 when I eventually placed my reduced order!
7375
Post by: BrookM
Just so long as this shipping fee is announced in advance and not shoved down our throats like the last one.
92460
Post by: aku-chan
Had to pass on the new plastic minis, they're nice but a bit too expensive once you include the shipping.
Hopefully, in time they'll start stocking them in the EU warehouse.
63623
Post by: Tannhauser42
I went for the sci-fi flower knight. The others were quite tempting, though.
30339
Post by: The Fragile Breath
Ended up snagging Before the Wall, Sci Fi White Speaker, Order Knight pinup, and Warrior of the Sun pinup. The wife and I are both suckers for the pinups, I'm always willing to buy them in plastic.
The Flower Knight was quite tempting, though I passed in the end as you can't really use him as a survivor in game, so I wouldn't have much use for it. Other than it looking freaking awesome, that is.
I forgot to hit the respond button, but the reason Adam hasn't done the digital art book yet is because stuff from Lantern Festival will be in there and he doesn't want spoilers.
40919
Post by: spiralingcadaver
Schmapdi wrote:t reminds me that the thing I want most from my KD:M pledge is the digital art book - which seems like would be the EASIEST thing in the world to fulfill, but somehow we still don't have it.
...Assembly instructions.
Alternative settlement sheets.
That is all.
44334
Post by: Alendrel
40919
Post by: spiralingcadaver
Yes, I think there are some nice fan made record sheets, but there should be official ones, and the fan guides have plenty of errors.
89168
Post by: youwashock
Grabbed five of the new models. Order pinup is my favorite of the new batch, but may be dethroned by Fade when actually in hand.
Looking forward to the digital art book and an update on Lantern Festival. Really want that King.
15753
Post by: Schmapdi
spiralingcadaver wrote:Schmapdi wrote:t reminds me that the thing I want most from my KD:M pledge is the digital art book - which seems like would be the EASIEST thing in the world to fulfill, but somehow we still don't have it.
...Assembly instructions.
Alternative settlement sheets.
That is all.
Both of those would probably be more work than compiling the already existing art into a .PDF file and slapping it on the internet somewhere ...
92270
Post by: Chopxsticks
Ya, its not like he has had a full year to have those done...
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
To be fair, he has been a little busy...
7375
Post by: BrookM
And yet, such an integral part of these kits...
72319
Post by: highlord tamburlaine
I'm still wondering if I put the Twilight Witch together correctly.
Guides certainly would help on some of these kits...
63356
Post by: Dentry
September Releases available now.
AND...
Kingdom Death Kickstarter 2
Let’s go ahead and make it official. We will be launching a kickstarter to fund the reprint of Kingdom Death: Monster on Friday November 25, 2016 - Black Friday. I will be offering no details or glimpses, as I prefer to keep it a surprise.
85824
Post by: Malkaven
I'm not a big fan of the role survivors. I typically get some of the resins or pinups that I could proxy in the game. I don't think those would proxy in well.
The update gave props some community members for their contributions. That's always nice to see.
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Post by: Krinsath
I kind of like the role survivors. I'm not sure I like them enough to purchase them mind you, but I like the levity behind them and as an image it really brings the insanity of the backstory to the Lion Knight encounter vividly to life.
While those, the Goblin Guard and Mountain Man are all interesting, I think this month is a pass from me. Nothing overtly wrong with the models, just not things I feel the need to add to the collection.
Curious if the reprint is going to include anything of interest to the original backers, and obviously what the status of the Lantern Festival is but I assume if anyone had read those details they would have shared them here.
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Post by: ImAGeek
Definitely gonna keep an eye out for the Kickstarter.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
Finally, a White Speaker Sword Hunter for a reasonable price!
Wanted her for a while, so that was a purchase. Also grabbed the Knight, as I've really enjoyed all the character class models (plus she really reminds me of Saber from Fate Stay Night).
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Post by: grefven
I wonder what the reason behind running a Kickstarter for a reprint of their previous KS project.
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Post by: Tannhauser42
grefven wrote:I wonder what the reason behind running a Kickstarter for a reprint of their previous KS project.
Probably because the upfront costs of ordering all the models and the printed parts is a lot of money, particularly if the print run is to be economically viable. I'm betting the print costs will be the highest, given that the molds for the models already exist. A Kickstarter at least defrays some of those costs. The upshot is that fulfillment should be fairly quick, since the foundation already exists.
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Post by: BrookM
I wonder if this KS will also fund some good instruction manuals for the kits.
Okay, I'll shut up and see myself out now.
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
 BrookM wrote:I wonder if this KS will also fund some good instruction manuals for the kits.
Ha!
Yeah, despite a very enjoyable game/minis set and good customer service, a bit miffed by the continued lack of instructions, since not everyone's experienced at building and the fan guides aren't always accurate.
What I'm actually hoping for is some nice stretch goals for new baddies. Specifically, new bosses and low-level baddies. I think the game has more than enough big bad monsters for the later half of the game, but more variety early would be very nice, and I think the Watcher is kind of a chump.
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Post by: Bi'ios
This is a nice turn of events. Perhaps I'll be able to get my hands on a copy now (that won't cost me $400)
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Post by: streetsamurai
BrookM wrote:I wonder if this KS will also fund some good instruction manuals for the kits.
Okay, I'll shut up and see myself out now.
DIng.
I can't really take Poots seriously because of this. Really insulting for the customers imo.
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Post by: Cergorach
 streetsamurai wrote: BrookM wrote:I wonder if this KS will also fund some good instruction manuals for the kits.
Okay, I'll shut up and see myself out now.
DIng.
I can't really take Poots seriously because of this. Really insulting for the customers imo.
Well... If you can't assemble the models without some official instruction manuals, maybe you should stick with those green army men...
All us KS backers can use 'Them Internets', because we could also use Kickstarter itself. The problems start if these models ever hit retail. I have more of a problem with the actual missing product (Lantern Festival)...
Some people see insults in everything other people do or don't. Maybe there's not something wrong with everyone else... Now you can feel insulted! ;-)
Also curious if there'll be an 'upgrade' pledge, updated cards, rulebook, and possibly new things...
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Post by: BrookM
Some of the models and sprues have been designed by an <REDACTED>, so clear instructions would be wonderful. fething hell, even better would be if they retooled the sprues to have certain parts numbered as well, looking at you, head sprues that are vague beyond feth.
The site we keep getting referred to right now isn't all that helpful on some things either, being either quite vague or referring to the wrong parts in some cases.
I mean, all those tiny hands on the Phoenix? Kudos to those who braved it and get it sorted out for us, but I'd really love to know why the creator, almost a year past shipping now, still hasn't bothered with this, or even deigned to give us a clear answer.
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Post by: Malkaven
Not may games give instructions anymore. I'm a pretty novice assembler and painter and I was able to get KD starting mini's and bosses assembled perfectly fine. I had issues with shadows of brimstone mini's and they have a lot less parts. I think half of my trouble was the miniatures not fitting as snug as KD mini's
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
Phoenix hands? Male/female arms? Front and back wrist halves with mislabeled corresponding parts?
None of those gave you any trouble?
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
grefven wrote:I wonder what the reason behind running a Kickstarter for a reprint of their previous KS project.
Probably because a $400 MSRP product is hard to restock due to minimum production volumes, etc.
My guess is that he is going to break it up into more manageable pieces: a smaller <$200 core and a few expansions.
I'm very curious, myself, and will likely back.
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Post by: Krinsath
I think there was talk of trimming the core box slightly at one point, but I think he also followed it up with he wasn't sure if there was anything that could be removed without making it an incomplete experience. Not sure where the balance would be there myself.
One thing that would be an addon he could offer that I would absolutely buy is a sturdy organizer insert for all the (sleeved) cards and tokens from the core+expansions inside the core box. The one made by this poster on reddit looks quite nice:
https://www.reddit.com/r/KingdomDeath/comments/4kot6v/my_acrylic_kdm_box/
Money would not be able to fly fast enough for that. I'm weird in my OCD; at varying times my house might look like the prequel to a hoarders episode, but my models will be sorted and organized with impeccable care into their own slots.
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
My group was just talking about how the core campaign felt a little long, actually-- we've been finding that the last 5 years or so, we're basically as ready as we need to be.
I could see trimming out the phoenix, phoenix armor, scrap smelting and everything past that, and having a different boss, for like a 15 year campaign and including that 40% or so of the game be an expansion. I mean, I guess if his dream is only the sprawl it is, one couldn't, but I think a shorter campaign would have merit.
I've actually been toying with homebrewing something similar, because, like I said, my group tends to get more than prepared by the time things are over.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
The Core box is *multiple* Major Expansions and Encounters. For costs purposes, I'd pull the Phoenix out and make it an expansion. That pulls a whole bunch of sprues out for a potentially much smaller box.
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Post by: Krinsath
That was actually my thought too as it'd leave you with the Lion and the Antelope as huntable monsters, plus their difficulty levels means that's 8 potential fights if you include the "legendary" ones. That leaves the King's Hand, Kingsmen, Butcher and Watcher in the box, which leaves us with 2 Nemesis monsters for every huntable one which just seems a bit...odd.
I like the idea of shortening the campaign though; yank the King's Hand and Watcher, have the Kingsmen as the interlude nemesis and Butcher as the final big-bad of a 15 year campaign and that might work out pretty well (ignoring that you'd have to adjust the core rulebook some). 2 huntable monsters, 2 Nemesis and a 30%-ish reduction in content that has to go into the box. Not sure it really drops the price a ton though.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
The Phoenix is a $125-150 expansion, so $400 becomes $250.
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
Phoenix has less content and fewer sprues than the spidicules, so, more like $100.
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Post by: Krinsath
I'm not sure that's how the pricing would work out. I don't disagree the Phoenix would be that much as an expansion, I just think it would only drop the core box to the $300-$325 range (added packing, added SKU, reworked rulebook, etc.). There's still 6 monsters (if we're not dropping anything else), 6 armor kits, and 4 starting survivors in the model realm. Plus only 87 fewer "big" cards (the number of gear cards tied to the Phoenix eludes me) compared to the full-fat version.
Taking out the Phoenix and armor kits is a big subtraction, but I don't think it's a 30%+ deduction from the cost.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
any changes are going to add costs and complexity (plus the game DID sell well as a $400 box)
so I think he'll stick with the game as is
but perhaps add in some expansions like the ring tailed fox etc that work is already in progress on and so 'pay' for them via KS
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
While it did sell out at $400, the current configuration is that of a one-shot. That is, it is so expensive to produce, that he cannot afford to restock it out of ongoing sales. That means that the product configuration needs to be redone as something that he can make 5,000 units of semi-economically.
Or, it needs to be repriced at $500+ to be producible in lots of 1,000 (or whatever the next smallest increment might be).
Further, the plug-and-play nature of Monsters suggests that having to pay $150-ish for the Phoenix, when you're really have wanted Spicidules or Gorm or Sunstalker?
Rework the Core as the first 10 years for $200-250. Split off the Watcher & Lantern Armor for $75-100. Split off the Phoenix and it armor for $125-150. Now, all of those pieces are easier to restock without needing to resort to Kickstarter.
Alternately, do biannual Kickstarters and only produce the core game as part of that event. Not a bad way to go there, either BTW.
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Post by: Krinsath
JohnHwangDD wrote:Alternately, do biannual Kickstarters and only produce the core game as part of that event. Not a bad way to go there, either BTW.
Would you believe I almost said "Assuming KS let's him list an existing product under the guidelines"? Then I remembered how much they actually enforce those guidelines (why hello there PB!) and that it's really just about their 10% and had a good laugh. Figured I'd share.
I suppose we'll see what ideas Adam has for this; I doubt he's going to leave it completely unchanged.
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Post by: Tannhauser42
Keep in mind, several of the costs associated with the original production are not a part of any new production. The model molds are done. The art is done. Those costs are already paid.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
Certainly he couldn't (or didn't want to) afford a restock without another KS, but then the last one cost at least $700K more than it took in (and that's not including the 50% of the shipping cost for the expansions to KS backers that he paid, or the continuing costs of Lantern Festival development
I strongly suspect if he's not spend that making extra content he'd have been able to restock and have a decent chunk of change for the business
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Post by: Cergorach
There's a LOT of HQ paper in the box, the box itself is quite luxurious and thus pricey. All those sprues aren't free either, so it needs a decent runs as well, which adds to the costs.
As others have noted, the original KS cost more then was raised, that money had to come from somewhere. I don't see the box as it is now to get any cheaper, if it was, then there would be a war with the initial backers.
We could see (some) new expansions, as the infrastructure is already in place to do so. I would love to see a plastic Wet Nurse and more plastic Pinups...
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
 Tannhauser42 wrote:Keep in mind, several of the costs associated with the original production are not a part of any new production. The model molds are done. The art is done. Those costs are already paid.
True, but it also looks like he vastly underestimated much of the original costs tied to development, production and delivery. Especially considering the final request for additional shipping funds. I think he might barely have broken even on ALL Kingdom Death project as of earlier this year, with profits from non- KS resin etc offsetting unexpected cost on the KD:M KS product. At some point, I think he wants to recoup things to drive a level of profit across all product lines.
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Post by: BrookM
Unexpected cost?
You mean, him rejecting and redesigning certain aspects of the game until it fit his vision perfectly, right?
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
That and adding probably 30% more stuff than he had originally considered.
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
BrookM wrote:Unexpected cost?
You mean, him rejecting and redesigning certain aspects of the game until it fit his vision perfectly, right?
Yeah... as someone else who's worked on (much smaller) creative projects like that and who's also a perfectionist, I have a ton of empathy, but that doesn't mean sympathy.
It's great that he chose to pursue his creative vision, even at the cost of profit or potentially even breaking even ( IDK), but, at the end of that day, those were his choices and his actions. If he made them intentionally, more power to him. If he made them in ignorance, he has himself or whoever did his finances to blame.
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Post by: BrookM
This isn't my first artisté rodeo, I've also sat through the first Raging Heroes KS. 
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Yeah, KD:M exemplifies boutique gaming, and my friends and I see it as the Sistine Chapel of board games.
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Post by: Gamgee
Does anyone have any idea yet when this new KS is supposed to happen? So much stuff is coming out this year and I only have so much money to throw at things. Particularly after grabbing my big titan.
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Post by: ecurtz
 Gamgee wrote:Does anyone have any idea yet when this new KS is supposed to happen? So much stuff is coming out this year and I only have so much money to throw at things. Particularly after grabbing my big titan.
Black Friday / Thanksgiving (USA) i.e. end of November.
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Post by: DaveC
Black Friday, November 25th. The original KS ran to January 7th but I don't think he'll run it that long again. As far as I can recall it started at midnight EST (EDIT yep I have a backers email at 4:59 AM GMT).
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Post by: Chopxsticks
CORE RULE BOOK WITH NO ART
CORE RULE BOOK WITH NO ART
If we could get a condensed rule book I would back the next KS to wait 6.3 years to get it.
This current long floppy rule book that I am required to flip through like I have ADHD is getting so annoying.
Also anyway to make the game not so long would be great. Its really hard for me to talk people into a board game that takes this long, and then trying to talk them into it again to do a sunstalker or Dragon God campaign.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
No...
HARDBACK RULEBOOK WITH RIBBONS!
HARDBACK RULEBOOK WITH RIBBONS!
The rulebook is the only non-premium component the player must have.
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Post by: Gamgee
Thanks for the info. Why did it have to be November. That's video game prime time. It all depends on the cost effectiveness to get a core. If it's at the same price as the original KS or I hope against all odds cheaper than I'll try my best. I might end up going in halfers with a friend.
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Post by: Jehan-reznor
spiralingcadaver wrote: BrookM wrote:I wonder if this KS will also fund some good instruction manuals for the kits.
Ha!
Yeah, despite a very enjoyable game/minis set and good customer service, a bit miffed by the continued lack of instructions, since not everyone's experienced at building and the fan guides aren't always accurate.
What I'm actually hoping for is some nice stretch goals for new baddies. Specifically, new bosses and low-level baddies. I think the game has more than enough big bad monsters for the later half of the game, but more variety early would be very nice, and I think the Watcher is kind of a chump.
Yeah even their proposed sister site gets things wrong, it takes a lot of searching on the web to get your mini's correctly assembled.
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Post by: BrookM
How about a digital rulebook?
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Post by: endtransmission
A well done digital rulebook would be an instant add. Either that, or a deck of larger format cards that covered all the event charts and setup instead of the books.
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Post by: Chopxsticks
Digital or hardback, just make it with out all the art. Package that and sell it separately.
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
Without artwork really? really?
I think you fundamentally misunderstand what KDM is.
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Post by: Alendrel
Gamgee wrote:Thanks for the info. Why did it have to be November. That's video game prime time. It all depends on the cost effectiveness to get a core. If it's at the same price as the original KS or I hope against all odds cheaper than I'll try my best. I might end up going in halfers with a friend.
Considering the original KS core game pledge level was $100 versus the final retail of $400...if the reprint ends up being $300 I think we'll be *very* lucky.
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Post by: Chopxsticks
 PsychoticStorm wrote:Without artwork really? really?
I think you fundamentally misunderstand what KDM is.
The art work is great, but it does nothing for the pace of the game. It should be pulled out and the rules condensed. Then pack the art in a separate book to fawn over. Some photos make sense, most serve no purpose.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
I, for one, do not want some low quality rinky-dink physical rules-only booklet. Those things suck to work with. And they are very hard on the eyes. I find them all but unreadable today.
I rather like the full-size rulebook that we have, and only wish that a hardback with the updated rules be made available.
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Post by: Gamgee
If it's 300 for a core in the second KS or higher I might not be able to do it. That's just insane levels of pricing. He is picking the worst time of the year to run the second KS where there is tons of competition for dollars.
Since It will have to be converted from CAD meaning it will be even more insanely stupid. I could buy my own Starship in star citizen for that kind of price. I could almost buy a second Tau Titan with that kind of cash or start a huge conventional collection of miniatures or buy a ton of video games. Or a combination of all the above.
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Post by: streetsamurai
Cergorach wrote: streetsamurai wrote: BrookM wrote:I wonder if this KS will also fund some good instruction manuals for the kits.
Okay, I'll shut up and see myself out now.
DIng.
I can't really take Poots seriously because of this. Really insulting for the customers imo.
Well... If you can't assemble the models without some official instruction manuals, maybe you should stick with those green army men...
All us KS backers can use 'Them Internets', because we could also use Kickstarter itself. The problems start if these models ever hit retail. I have more of a problem with the actual missing product (Lantern Festival)...
Some people see insults in everything other people do or don't. Maybe there's not something wrong with everyone else... Now you can feel insulted! ;-)
Also curious if there'll be an 'upgrade' pledge, updated cards, rulebook, and possibly new things...
Well, some people seem to think that we shoul be grateful when a company sell them half made products and consistently make false promises. As PT Barnaum said, there's a sucker born every minute. Asking for assembly guides is far from being an extravagant demand, especially considering the fan made ones are far from being perfect.
Am I able to assemble the minis without the guide? Yeah, but I'm also able to patch a tire that has a flat. Doesn't means that I appreciate being sold one when I was promised a new one.
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Post by: MacMuckles
Gamgee wrote:If it's 300 for a core in the second KS or higher I might not be able to do it. That's just insane levels of pricing. He is picking the worst time of the year to run the second KS where there is tons of competition for dollars.
Since It will have to be converted from CAD meaning it will be even more insanely stupid. I could buy my own Starship in star citizen for that kind of price. I could almost buy a second Tau Titan with that kind of cash or start a huge conventional collection of miniatures or buy a ton of video games. Or a combination of all the above.
Then go do that. If you don't want to drop the cash, don't. No one's forcing your hand.
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Post by: Davor
Gamgee wrote:
Since It will have to be converted from CAD meaning it will be even more insanely stupid.
Could be worse my friend. It could be Aussie prices.
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Post by: Gamgee
Just thinking about Aussie prices is making me feel bad. :(
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Post by: Jehan-reznor
I would be interested in a box set of expansions
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
I would like a proper assembly guide. That would be nice, given that such a guide was promised. Whether it's CAD or a cleanup of Vibrant Lantern or something else, I don't care. I'd just like to see how the models were designed to be built.
As for price on the KS, I am prepared to drop $200, maybe $300, depending on the offer. I love the sculpted resins far more than the multi-part Survivors, so I hope that the new monopose resins become available in plastic, as an expansion set of some sort.
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
Chopxsticks wrote: PsychoticStorm wrote:Without artwork really? really?
I think you fundamentally misunderstand what KDM is.
The art work is great, but it does nothing for the pace of the game. It should be pulled out and the rules condensed. Then pack the art in a separate book to fawn over. Some photos make sense, most serve no purpose.
And this is where you are wrong KDM is the artwork, the rules book devoid of the artwork is not much to write home about, the artwork is what sets the pace and makes it unique.
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
A very trimmed-down PDF of content could be nice, but yeah, trimming out the pics is equivalent to suggesting you just play the whole game with blank pawns- yes, it doesn't change the mechanics, but you lose a huge chunk of the flavor, in a game where that flavor is a huge chunk of what it was designed around.
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Post by: Chopxsticks
@PsychoticStorm I dont see how I'm wrong, and I would like to know how you get to decided for people on such matters.
The artwork doesnt set any pace for me, and it doesnt make it any more unique than the models themselves already do. The text does far more for me. Can I stand on my soap box and tell you this is where you are wrong?
I see no reason two books cant exist. I also stated that not all art needed pulled, but it would be nice if the full page art was.
No one in my gaming group likes the rule book in its long floppy page format. The pages are to limb, the art is nice, but the large full page stuff and the multi page cartoons just created more pages to flip through when you are already flipping all over the place.
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
PS, I think, certainly represents the dominant perspective and that of the game company, so, insofar as there can be a correct way to enjoy a game, I think that's correct. Similarly, I feel like GW's line is best enjoyed as intended (casual).
Doing it another way is, well, a way you can do it or prefer it, but expecting an edition that caters to a minority view that is in opposition to the creators' intent is probably asking for a bit much.
Print runs are really expensive, so there's got to be a pretty good incentive to do one.
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
Chopxsticks wrote:@PsychoticStorm I dont see how I'm wrong, and I would like to know how you get to decided for people on such matters.
The artwork doesnt set any pace for me, and it doesnt make it any more unique than the models themselves already do. The text does far more for me. Can I stand on my soap box and tell you this is where you are wrong?
I see no reason two books cant exist. I also stated that not all art needed pulled, but it would be nice if the full page art was.
No one in my gaming group likes the rule book in its long floppy page format. The pages are to limb, the art is nice, but the large full page stuff and the multi page cartoons just created more pages to flip through when you are already flipping all over the place.
The practical reason why two books cannot exist is purely economical, printing costs, shipping costs and the demand for a sterile rulebook for a game that is mostly theme should be too low for such a product to exist.
There are two kind of games to design in their purest format, abstract were rules are important and theme could be anything and thematic were the theme over-dominates the rules and usually the rules do not make sense without the theme.
KDM selling point is the theme, the background the models and the artwork, the rules are as supplement to this not the key selling point every single artwork, in cards and rulebook sets the gaming experience, the tone and the expectations, the artwork for intimacy section of the rules for example is shocking and all it does is showing a couple fully clothed enjoying each others company, why? because it the entire book sets the tone of an environment so dynamic, irrational, claustrophobic and lethal that such a timid, logical and rational image looks out of place.
You cannot deliver such gaming experience with a plain text rulebook and spending resources for one would be a mistake, beyond the economic side it also devalues the product.
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Post by: Chopxsticks
And I respectfully disagree. seeing the art once is great, I don't need to see it every time I flip to the page for the rules.
I also see no reason why in his next kickstarter for the rulebook there cannot be an option for an artless rule book. Hell he could even put "This needs X amount of backers" and if it doesnt reach it so be it.
I see your points but I dont understand why you cant grasp that the art in the rule book does nothing for me. The mini's the gear cards and most importantly all the text, on the cards, the hunt events, in the rules. Those add far for to the game than the art does to me. Is the Giant photo of the White lion cool, sure is! Can he be pulled out to condense the bloated rule book? I see no reason why not.
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
Oh I can grasp very well the fact you want a plain text rulebook, that you do not want art in it and that you want something that is individualised for you.
That is not how products design work, the rulebook will not be designed for an individuals or a minorities needs but for what the majority wants and in a way that it will boost the sales and appeal of the product.
KDM designer correctly sells an IP, not a game and all his decisions are based on promoting KD IP not a single game.
Presenting the rules bare of art devalues the product sets them separate from the IP and gives to potential new customers no reference to the IP Poots creates and promotes, moreover been tied to a premium product as KDM is with such a high price it will not only look cheap, it will make the whole product feel cheap.
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Post by: Malkaven
I'm actually hoping for the opposite for the rulebook. I'd love to see a hardcover version with more art.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
 Malkaven wrote:I'm actually hoping for the opposite for the rulebook. I'd love to see a hardcover version with more art.
I'm mostly hoping for a premium hardback 2nd edition book with a couple ribbon markers.
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
Would be the most realistic option to offer, but would make the core box even more heavy and expensive.
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Post by: Sinful Hero
I think the idea is the Hardback would be available separately from the Core box.
And I second the motion for more art.
More comics/in-universe stories would be awesome too.
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
Well, there's still s'posed ta' be an art book PDF on its way
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
PsychoticStorm wrote:Would be the most realistic option to offer, but would make the core box even more heavy and expensive.
I'm looking at the hardback as an separate upgrade. And the extra art? How about they take the PDF artbook and simply print that and bind it in. Because we want actual printed art in full color, rather than just the PDF quality stuff. And the expansion rules? Why not print & bind those, too? With all of those print & art assets already existing components, stitching them together can't be that much more effort.
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
I am not sure it could reach necessary numbers as a stand alone product.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
As a print to demand product tied to the KS, I think it would.
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Post by: anab0lic
Are you non USA guys not becoming incredibly frustrated, like I am, that all these LE models are only available from the USA warehouse? I would have easily dropped 200$ on the stuff that was put up on the store this month... but delivery + custom charges just makes it far too costly. :(
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
I'd love Adam to bulk import them into the EU for the convenience of it all and because shipping would be faster,
but most of the extra costs (VAT, shipping in from the US and paying the warehouse to process the orders) would still have to be passed along to us meaning I don't think we'd save much
(except the £8 to royal mail for the privilege of paying the taxes)
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
I would be quite happy if the import tax was just 10-12 euro and not something along the lines of 30% plus whatever abysmal extra the courier companies can summon.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
You guys complaining about VAT, etc. need to complain to your countries Customs and Import charges, not us - we can't do anything about that.
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Post by: Davor
anab0lic wrote:Are you non USA guys not becoming incredibly frustrated, like I am, that all these LE models are only available from the USA warehouse?
Don't you have your LE minis for GW when it's in UK only? Now you know how the rest of the world feels now not being able to get them.
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
JohnHwangDD wrote:You guys complaining about VAT, etc. need to complain to your countries Customs and Import charges, not us - we can't do anything about that.
Don't you (not you specifically) do the same when things are not from US?
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
I simply refuse to buy things outside the US. 
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Post by: Gamgee
Which is an option when you are the USA. Trying to find local stuff that takes paypal is annoying to say the least.
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
Yes, USA has a plethora of options because it is after all one of the major markets, not the same with most of the world, anyway it was a small remark on how expensive it is to get stuff outside the EU for many countries of the EU.
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Post by: Alpharius
Thread Topic is "Kingdom Death - News and Rumors" - thanks!
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Post by: Monkeysloth
PsychoticStorm wrote: JohnHwangDD wrote:You guys complaining about VAT, etc. need to complain to your countries Customs and Import charges, not us - we can't do anything about that.
Don't you (not you specifically) do the same when things are not from US?
No, we don't have custom charges or taxes in the US for non-commercial purchases under like $5k (not sure on the exact amount but it's really high) from outside the US.
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Post by: Mymearan
 Monkeysloth wrote: PsychoticStorm wrote: JohnHwangDD wrote:You guys complaining about VAT, etc. need to complain to your countries Customs and Import charges, not us - we can't do anything about that.
Don't you (not you specifically) do the same when things are not from US?
No, we don't have custom charges or taxes in the US for non-commercial purchases under like $5k (not sure on the exact amount but it's really high) from outside the US.
Wow. Over here the limit is like $30 and the added sales tax/customs fee is slightly over 25% so you can understand the hand-wringing. Sorry for OT!
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Post by: Baiyuan
Chopxsticks wrote: PsychoticStorm wrote:Without artwork really? really?
I think you fundamentally misunderstand what KDM is.
The art work is great, but it does nothing for the pace of the game. It should be pulled out and the rules condensed. Then pack the art in a separate book to fawn over. Some photos make sense, most serve no purpose.
I completely disagree. Especially the art around the showdown events is imo essential to the feeling of the game. I think there is some artwork that's just used to fill up gaps in the layout, but not much and even that hepls flesh out the mysterious KD universe a little bit. I wouldn't be opposed to an artwork-free quick reference version of course, but the main book's lifeblood is the artworks in it if you ask me, which of course you didn't.
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Post by: Dentry
Halloween!
Trick or Treat bag:
(Note all models are plastic, including the previously released witches.)
Armor Kit Bundle:
And more:
36
Post by: Moopy
Interested in the armor package until I saw the $125 price tag.
Thats Crazytalk. Automatically Appended Next Post:  Baiyuan wrote:Chopxsticks wrote: PsychoticStorm wrote:Without artwork really? really?
I think you fundamentally misunderstand what KDM is.
The art work is great, but it does nothing for the pace of the game. It should be pulled out and the rules condensed. Then pack the art in a separate book to fawn over. Some photos make sense, most serve no purpose.
I completely disagree. Especially the art around the showdown events is imo essential to the feeling of the game. I think there is some artwork that's just used to fill up gaps in the layout, but not much and even that hepls flesh out the mysterious KD universe a little bit. I wouldn't be opposed to an artwork-free quick reference version of course, but the main book's lifeblood is the artworks in it if you ask me, which of course you didn't.
Well put.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
That $125 armor pack is $11-ish per set of 4 figures made. Under $3/figure, it's not a bad deal at all.
Me, I kinda wanted to get the Witch set in plastic, without the cosplay Survivors.
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Post by: BrookM
Well, at least the end is more or less in sight now.
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
I would like the witch set but 100$ is a killer for customs I wish he had them available from the EU base too.
Anybody knows what company he uses to send them in?
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
UPS, USPS, what's the difference?
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
USPS will come maybe charge me with import duties and handed by the government, so I will pay at most a 28% import tax, but I have not payed more than 20 euro so far.
UPS will hold the invoice ransom for 80 euro regardless of actual product cost, will force me to hire their exporter for another 20 euro and charge me "warehouse fee" of IIRC 4 euro per day the product sits until they get around to export it.
So the difference is substantial for me.
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Post by: aku-chan
Grabbed a Witches set.
Even though I'm not too keen on the Halloween Survivors, the price was just too good!
I'm guessing there's going to be a Flower Witch Coven expansion appearing in that upcoming kickstarter.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
It's always been USPS when I've ordered from KD using the slower, cheaper uninsured postage option
but remember the US system is the customer is responsible for stuff in transit not the shipper, so if a delivery went missing they don't have to replace/refund if you don't pay for insured shipping
(I've never had any problems but if you do suffer from post going missing with any regularity be aware of the potential issue)
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Post by: Ignatius-Grulgor
Gee thanks brexiteers that exchange rate is killing me, can't say no to some more resin/plastic sitting on the shelf though.
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Post by: Vorian
Yup, terrible exchange rate and always getting hit on customs means no wet nurse for me :(
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Post by: chaos0xomega
Any idea if the cards from the Halloween Twilight night and pinup wet nurse will make the promo pack? also whats the settlement card referenced in the newsletter?
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Post by: Loopstah
Ordered a Halloween Twilight Knight as the lantern is a useable card rather than a Promo. The only one I'm missing now is the Xmas White Speaker story event.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
Pumpkin Knight (who I skipped for some odd reason last time) and the 2 new classes for me.
Tempted by the witchy witches, but I'll wait and see if they show up in an expansion. Funky costumes don't do much for me.
I almost got the armor kit bundle, but then realized I already have that many (if not more) unbuilt, and probably should start on those first.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
PsychoticStorm wrote:USPS will come maybe charge me with import duties and handed by the government, so I will pay at most a 28% import tax, but I have not payed more than 20 euro so far.
UPS will hold the invoice ransom for 80 euro regardless of actual product cost, will force me to hire their exporter for another 20 euro and charge me "warehouse fee" of IIRC 4 euro per day the product sits until they get around to export it.
So the difference is substantial for me.
Hence the wink. In most cases, USPS is the net cheapest international option, and UPS is among the more expensive options. It amuses me how it they can charge $20+ for 5 minutes of electronic filing.
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
Apologies, I completely missed the wink.
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
This was the first time in a bit that I got to a KD sale and backed away-- would have probably done a witch/disciple set on its own for $60 or w/e, but I don't need 4 goofy survivors (muscle man in a skirt is getting kinda' old as a joke-- #3 if you count strange spot), and as good a deal as that survivor pack is, the wrong number of bases and already having quite a few meant again I wasn't drawn in. Kinda' liked the necromancer and was tempted by the forge got, but too expensive.
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Post by: Chopxsticks
Has anyone heard rumor that the next update is Nov 5th now?
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
that's what the newsletter suggested (but whether it's 5th November, or 5th November Adam Poots time we shall wait and see)
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Post by: BrookM
Not so much a rumour as something that was in the newsletter that was sent out a few days ago.
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Post by: Chopxsticks
A newsletter went out.... ugh, ive signed up for that twice and still seem to not receive them.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
The newsletter gets sent out sometime after the update goes up on his site. If you were signed up, yeah, you should have received it by now. Maybe you're spam blocking it?
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Post by: BrookM
Had to dig it out of my deleted folder, but here's the bit:
KD:M Kickstarter Status
Final KD:M Kickstarter Update Scheduled for November 5th.
Lantern Festival - TBD November 5th
Aya Painting Guide - Complete
Kara Black Skin Painting Guide - Complete
Digital Art book - Final Copy & Then into copy editing
Holiday White Speaker Nico Settlement Card - Going to add this to the printed card pack (along with the cards from the recently released plastic models, that many backers already have). These will be available for cost + labor + shipping.
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Post by: DaveC
Chopxsticks wrote:A newsletter went out.... ugh, ive signed up for that twice and still seem to not receive them.
Mine goes to the promotions folder in gmail so I often miss it, that and he sends them in the early hours of the morning (GMT)
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
I wonder if your ISP is blocking his domain thinking it's a spammer
that generally seems to be the main reason for not receiving email newsletters from a wide variety of sources
(PM me your email address and I'll forward mine to you if you want it?)
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Post by: gunslingerpro
Bought a Necromancer. Seriously love that model.
So, any chance we get the Lantern festival without shipping costs?
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Post by: Alpharius
 gunslingerpro wrote:Bought a Necromancer. Seriously love that model.
So, any chance we get the Lantern festival without shipping costs?
I think that's unlikely...
7375
Post by: BrookM
Indeed, I've already told my brother that it was his turn this time round to cough up the shipping, which will no doubt have to be paid in a short time window again, just like last time..
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Update #100. Lantern Festival - Canceled
As of this moment, I have canceled the Lantern Festival.
WHY!?
There are a lot of reasons. Most importantly, it failed to live up to my expectations.
It goes on, in detail, and people need to read this for themselves.
I did not see that coming. At all.
I understand exactly where Adam is coming from, though.
Oh, yeah, this, too...
KD:M Kickstarter 2
On November 25th, Black Friday. We will be launching our 2nd Kingdom Death: Monster campaign. The focus of the campaign will start on a reprint of the sold out Kingdom Death: Monster core set with an 1.4 ruleset. (Current version of the game is 1.31). An upgrade pack with the rulebook and updated cards will be available for existing fans.
I wonder if he'll relaunch a "proper" Lantern Festival boxed set with armor, etc. that corrects the deficiencies.
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Post by: Sasori
The Lantern Festival was cancelled, and those that pledged it have been issued a full refund.
As of this moment, I have canceled the Lantern Festival.
This was a very hard decision to make. It comes from a place of utmost respect and dedication to the brand... not common sense or practical business money-making logic.
Everyone is being issued a $45 refund (per pledged lantern festival) via paypal. We are covering the -11% kickstarter fees that we lost from funds collected during the 2012-2013 campaign. If you do not have a paypal account at that email address, you can easily set one up by following the instructions on your refund email from paypal.
WE DO NOT SUPPORT THE SALE OF PLEDGES. If you sold your pledge or bought a pledge from another individual, you must contact them. We can only send the refund to the official email address we have on file.
If you have any issues, need help, would prefer store credit or would simply like us to keep the money and waive your refund, please visit our support page at kingdomdeath.com/support for more information and to contact us.
I was unsatisfied with the expansion. It failed to live up to the Kingdom Death standard. In the future, it is likely that I will create another product that uses the same miniatures but it will not be the Lantern Festival I pitched in the 2012 - 2013 kickstarter. I love Kingdom Death and the sad fact is that we are all stuck with a crazy creator!
WHY!?
There are a lot of reasons. Most importantly, it failed to live up to my expectations.
That’s not a good enough reason!
I agree. I’ll elaborate. It all ties back to the essential experiences that make up Kingdom Death: Monster. Overwhelming odds, tactical strategy, evolution, surprises, accessibility, hard developmental choices and building survivor miniatures. Lantern Festival had some, but NOT all of these things.
It was pitched to EXTEND the current timeline, meaning only the small fraction of players who completed the core game could enjoy it, killing its accessibility. Most of our player base has yet to finish playing all the current expansions, which makes extending the main campaign in the way the Lantern Festival was pitched, a less than ideal choice.
Since there were no armor sets (just the twilight cloak), it led to a significant lack of accomplishment and not much evolution. The game felt incomplete when you weren’t chasing a new armor set or making hard decisions about the best gear you could make from a hand of resources. It left Lantern Festival without that feeling of evolution.
KD:M is a series of hard-fought, uphill climbs and moments of respite to recover or push the development of your settlement. Imagine a titan’s staircase. Your gaming group is trying to tackle it. After a vertical climb, you get an easier horizontal walk to recovery and start to plan the next vertical challenge. Lantern Festival lacked those horizontal moments, wherein you made major developmental choices that would affect the overall outcome.
Without all those elements in concert, it could never be a proper encore to the spectacular performance of KD:M.
To be a proper encore It would need to be more like a new core set, with the focus of the settlement shifted to be more macro, dealing with a developing town instead of a small settlement. Since that is not what was pitched, nor is it what we worked toward on its first development cycle, I am refunding everyone instead of releasing content I can’t stand behind. The realization of what this particular part of the Kingdom Death world needed to be, was simply to large in scope for the funds that were raised to create it.
Lastly, it was also just plain crazy to write a game extension BEFORE the game and its tons of expansions were in the hands of players playing the game.
Call it vanity, creator responsibility (or lack thereof), or proof of my utmost respect for our fans and player base. This was a very hard (and very expensive) decision to make. I could have just put something “all-right” out and kept the money.
When playing it safe, pulling punches and putting out content that doesn’t make me pee a little with excitement becomes the norm. I’ll let you know to the tune of “Sellout” by Reel Big Fish, silly trumpets and all. I’ll “skank” my way over to the bank and slam dunk the deposit box!
Now onto the rest of it.
Card Pack
Last campaign, we kickstarted the plastic production of many single miniatures. Some of these were included in the Survival Level reward box and others, like the Messengers and crossover projects were pledged for separately. We created challenge scenarios and released a PDF collection of them with the promise that we'd later print a physical card pack of the final versions for their gear. The challenge scenarios ended up having little to do with the core KD:M experience and while many fans appreciate them, it was clear that future development should be steered in a different direction.
We started a new round of plastic production, re-introducing several of the models again, but this time with much more interesting and campaign involved rules. I promised that we would put together a card pack that contained these new assets, for fans that already have the miniatures from the first campaign.
SO! We will be combining all of this stuff + the newly developed gear cards and assets from the miniatures that are still missing them (the messengers, etc) Into one larger card pack that will be available on our store as promised. Because I want to ensure all the content is meaningful, we were not able to complete them all in time for this update. But I expect to have it ready early next year. It is going to be printed by a more reliable printer so that the card sizes and weight remain consistent with the game cards.
This is the last outstanding part of our campaign. Although I admit I am mixed to classify it as such, since its all NEW development based on player feedback from the game and the expansions all being out in the wilds for some time. Ultimately making it more work, but better quality than it would have been. The price of the card pack will be our raw cost + shipping. We are not aiming to make a dime off of it.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
I'll accept the refund, but I'm pretty disappointed that he didn't have an option for pledgers who just wanted the minis.
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Post by: Absolutionis
Yeah, I'm rather disappointed.
I really wanted the minis, especially the King.
I was also curious about the fluff behind the aristocratic hunters with their guns. The Manhunter and his gun pretty much lacked all fluff.
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Post by: Chopxsticks
This is bs... I'm positive this goes deeper than "he didnt like it" I suspect he was going to lose far more money on product and shipping than that $45 refund. I bought this expansion solely on the models, and yet no option to still receive them. Then he tries and peddle us a t-shirt.... and asks for people to simply donate... wtf. The cult this man has created is just nutty.
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Post by: Schmapdi
What were the minis that went with the Lantern Festival?
Kinda disappointed in the artbook - felt very slapped together - which would have been fine, had it come out a month or so after the KS - but having been made to wait for it for like, 4 years now was expecting a little better.
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Post by: Chopxsticks
https://boardgamegeek.com/image/2209380/kingdom-death-monster-lantern-festival-expansion
The lantern festival had alot of good stuff packed in it. Given what he has said in relation to the final price of the other expansions is why I think he couldnt take the lose on this and rather than say that, asked us to take a t-shirt or donate our money to him instead....
Automatically Appended Next Post:
UGH The t-shirt infuriates me... The fact he is trying to profit off of not delivering an expansion years after it was promised to us is beyond disrespectful.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
The Lantern Festival minis should have been made available, and I can't imagine the tooling and pops going to waste.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
That's assuming tooling was actually done for the Festival in the first place.
We have no way of knowing how much plastic tooling was done for it.
Plus, like you guys mentioned, with the final costs of a lot of the current expansions, wouldn't surprise me to see it return as a proper expansion with a current expansion price tag.
Hopefully not into the triple digits, but we'll see.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
I think the Lantern Festival was tooled and popped - recall that Adam had taken possession of all of the sprues from the plastic factory, and transferred them to the print factory.
Even without an Armor set or fancy rules, I'd be very surprised if the King and related minis came in under $100+ USD. It's far more substantial than any of the Knight sets.
The King, Scribe and the Twilight Cloak are each comparable to a Knight set. The Hunters are comparable to the Green Armor set.
That said, the Lantern Festival seemed a rather disjointed "grab bag" of minis. Of the lot, I only wanted the Twilight Cloak.
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Post by: Absolutionis
There's going to be a lot of outrage and complaints once the next Kickstarter starts at the end of this month and the Lantern Festival gets announced as a $150 boxed set.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
What if it's 3x $50 sets?
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Post by: BrookM
Oh "no".
I do hope that former backers don't have to pay a f*ckload for an updated rulebook and whatnot. Ditto on that promised card pack, we pledged for a lot of that gak mainly because it was supposed to have ingame content!
But I guess we can finally tick this one off as "fulfilled" on the KS site then..
So, about those instructions, maybe they'll be done in time for fulfilment of the reprint then?
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
According to Adam, the card pack will be at cost + shipping.
I assume the rulebook will be inexpensive, and hope it'll be sold at/near cost.
However, I had also hoped that the rulebook would be available as a more premium hardback version...
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Post by: BrookM
A sturdier book would be neat, but I'm not exactly hopeful.
A digital rulebook would be nice though, but I doubt that fits into the mindset of the creator.
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
I am not sure it will get announced, I might be wrong, I am expecting it to break into parts and get reworked.
I am more sad than disappointed, I understand it not working as he wanted and probably tried to not kill it for a long time, but if it did no deliver what he wanted and that is opening KDM for a "grander scale", from settlement to town, then better withdraw it and rework the idea.
I am looking forward to what new he has in store for the new KDM, maybe he reworks the endgame in the new rulebook.
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Post by: Vorian
Sigh, there's only so much that "dedication to quality" can cover.
I was mostly interested in the miniatures, I would take them without any rules at all
Not cool
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Post by: Sirius42
Seems a bit divaish to me, and the cash grab is a little too on the nose. Needless to say I won't be having a tshirt and honestly after this one I'll have serious reservations about backing another, 4 years for incomplete fulfillment just leaves a bit of a bad taste (especially as when he redos it it'll probably be triple the price).
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Post by: Undead_Love-Machine
I had expected Poots to ask for more money for shipping again, but this is even more disappointing, but for me, the most disappointing thing is how this has been handled.
It seems pretty clear that he is not delivering the product for financial reasons, which is entirely understandable, but the way that he has put off the announcement for so long, then tried to dress it up as something else entirely is a bit of an insult to the intelligence of the backers.
And the whole T-shirt/donation thing? Oh dear.
As others have said, we will know for sure when we see the price tags of the Lantern Festival minis when they are eventually released.
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Post by: RivenSkull
Well, I take the refund at the very least.
But I'm not happy with this, and I'm going to be pissed if the Lantern Festival shows up in the second KS at a higher price. I'm in agreement that this feels like he saw he would lose more money on delivering the product than the refunds.
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Post by: Moopy
It is what it is. The fact he gave a full refund and an explanation shows he's above board.
I really don't get why people always have to read between the lines on the reason why it was canceled. Any time people get an unwelcome surprise, they have to attach evil intent to it.
Poots has always been an artist, so this has made perfect sense. He's rejected a lot of models that aren't up to standard.
Disappointing? Yes.
Unforeseen? Yes.
Ulterior underhanded motives? No.
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Post by: Sasori
On the brightside, this has finally cemented me to not back the new kickstarter.
The T-shirt bit was a real slap in the face.
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Post by: ced1106
He could have put together what he had and send it off to backers.
Oh, wait. That's Mantic's KS model.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
I'm sad the lantern festival isn't happening, but understand where he's coming from
the refund can hang around for the new KS or go on the card pack
and I hope any plastics already done show up eventually either as loose sprues or as part of something else
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Post by: aku-chan
It's disappointing, but at least I got my money back.
Which he'll probably get back in the next KS, if he's offering monopose armour kits like that teaser suggests.
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Post by: gunslingerpro
A bit sad, but assuming the cause as anything other than vision is pure speculation (considering the loss he willingly took on all other expansions). I mean hell, he even gave the KS fees back, which he really didn't have to do.
I've continued to buy the occassional miniature when they release, and will continue to support him if the vision and quality stays as high as it has been
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Post by: SeanDrake
Looks like his mouth wrote a cheque his wallet was not willing to cash.
For all the blather about art and artistic integrity all of poots decisons can be traced to his bottom line.
Fully expect all the completed models from the lantern festival paid for by this KS to appear in the next KS for 3x the price.
I will not be backing the next KS this one was that late I had got married and started a family by the time it even started to deliver. I then got gouged for additional postage due to poots costs being 3 years out of date.
Finally refund or not poots failed to complete this KS .
It seems to come down to -
Artistic integrity which causes delays or additonal costs to backer = Good
Artistic integrity which costs Poot's $,cash or reduces his potential future profits = Bad
This KS has shown me that poots is either incompetent or has the scruples of GW and as such I will not be risking money on an uncertain return at an uncertain time in the future.
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Post by: Tannhauser42
The vitriol over this is a bit much. A full refund has been issued. We've already saved barrels of money over the retail price on everything else this KS produced.
To equate this to GW, to ascribe nefarious motives to this act, to declare anyone who didn't scream bloody murder over this as being part of a cult, is all a bit much.
I'm disappointed, yes. But I'm not going to be spiteful or vindictive over it. I'll evaluate the next project, see if it provides what I want at the price I want.
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Post by: greywulf
I think he tried his best and it didn't work out the way he wanted. He's pretty clearly proven to everyone that he cares about his vision. He did, after all, remain committed to this project over a 3-4 year period. There's nothing in his message that would make anyone reasonable infer that this was 100% about costs, but i have kids and i've watched enough Judge Judy and Jerry Springer to understand how unreasonable people can get about jsut about anything.
I'll definitely be onboard for the new campaign on the first day. But i'll make my final decision towards the end, when we have a better idea about what his new plan is.
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Post by: Undead_Love-Machine
Artistic merit aside, is there anyone who genuinely believes that Adam's decision to not deliver the Lantern Festival wasn't based primarily on money?
Edit: I'm genuinely interested.
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Post by: ecurtz
I'm sure money was a consideration. On the other hand I'd much rather see more Kingdom Death stuff down the road than have it go under because Poots was forced to provide yet more plastic bits at a loss.
It would have been nice if he had made this decision years ago, but it's still hardly the worst Kickstarter experience many of us have had.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
If he had provided an option for just buying the minis themselves, at slightly above cost and shipping, I would have gone for it. Instead, he has implied we will be paying a very high price for them later because he couldn't control the ballooning costs of the rules and he is unwilling to sell us the good stuff without a heaping helping of box ballast. It's the body horror equivalent of Star Wars Armada.
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Post by: Sythica
If this was about money, he would have found a way to put out a subpar product within budget. We've all seen lots of companies that do this. If he couldn't make the game itself meaningful (which also happens to lots of game designers), then why make it?
I'll be supporting the next Kickstarter.
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Post by: Tannhauser42
Undead_Love-Machine wrote:Artistic merit aside, is there anyone who genuinely believes that Adam's decision to not deliver the Lantern Festival wasn't based primarily on money?
Edit: I'm genuinely interested.
Oh, money was certainly involved, no question. Whether it was the primary issue or not is uncertain.
But, something to consider: 5410 backers on KS (not including any that came in after). If even just half of them went for the Lantern Festival, that's about $121000 Poots just sent out in refunds. And about $10000 of that comes directly out of his pocket because it was taken away in Kickstarter fees. So, even just cancelling the Lantern Festival is costing Poots a chunk of money.
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Post by: Chopxsticks
I feel if money was not involved he would not have made a shirt to try and sell back to us about canceling this expansion.
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Post by: Undead_Love-Machine
Evidently it is costing him less to refund people than it would have done to fulfill the orders, which is why he made the decision to refund people.
Adam Poots is a business man, operating a business.
He also has a small family to support.
Money is the primary consideration here, which is perfectly fine; my only issue is the fact that he has painted a very different picture to the backers. Why not just call a spade a spade?
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Post by: Chopxsticks
People are also pointing out on the KS Thread that Update #93 has the Lantern Festival tooling as complete. So if it was not a price issue, one could wonder why not just sell us the miniatures separately. We will know in 3 weeks I suppose...
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
Posted this elsewhere, but my response, either way--
Wow. Totally deflated.
I would have been way happier with a less-ambitious expansion that changed the scope* than nothing.
The Watcher is a big letdown, and of anything to be a letdown it shouldn't have been the boss. I was stoked for a higher-level boss and some new options and a redeemed, harder/more exciting boss, and had saved aside completed campaigns for this.
I was also just excited to paint the model-- I thought it was the best of the big models, even beyond gameplay (and the other 4 were pretty exciting, too).
Then the card expansion:
This is the last outstanding part of our campaign. Although I admit I am mixed to classify it as such, since its all NEW development based on player feedback from the game and the expansions all being out in the wilds for some time. Ultimately making it more work, but better quality than it would have been. The price of the card pack will be our raw cost + shipping. We are not aiming to make a dime off of it.
I'm totally okay with this, except, really? "Open beta had feedback, so it's kinda' like a new thing, so shouldn't count as incomplete"? Just... feels like more excuses rather than just sticking to taking responsibility- "hey, I know I said I'd deliver now, but I was overambitious" or something.
Then there's the shirt: We created tshirts to commemorate the cancellation of the Lantern Festival! If you would prefer Kingdom Death to keep your $45 and put it towards future developments, please feel free to pick up a shirt or 2!
really rubbed me the wrong way. Suggests that they're still going to launch the expansion in the future, and, while they're at it, here's some money to advertise them failing to deliver, which they had time to print because that's easy money and can pay towards development of that thing you bought but they didn't deliver. If it turns out that they've tracked everyone who bought it and there's something getting a discount, you can call me an alarmist or w/e whenever that comes out, but that was a really long wait for what turned out to be a refund.
Well. This update did a lot to harm my feelings towards the studio. I'll wait to see the KS, and maybe my enthusiasm will be back by then, but... eh. I don't know. I honestly didn't expect the day would come where I felt let down by the work ethic here, but it has. I'd been moving towards finishing a campaign and continuing another, but I might just let it sit in the box for a while.
* Dragon-style "here's a new timeline w/ new nemeses (scribe, hunters)"; sunstalker-style "here's just a new timeline and boss"; or, "here are 2 new variant nemeses and 1 variant boss- they're not built in a campaign, and don't get separate books, but here's some stuff", "here are some cool models that you don't even get rules for, and a variant boss," or, hell, even just some nice minis.
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Post by: Grot 6
More then likely it was shipping, and distribution.
As much as I like a good box of hateraid, I have to give him a little space on this one. Yes, it looks like he didn't follow through, but in the expanse of the total project, and his ability- he hasn't done too badly.
I'm not going to throw candy at him and call it sweet, but he put together a pretty impressive project, kept people informed, was honest, and discussed the parameters of what he was doing at length and was above board the whole time- even after making over a million dollars to go forward with the expansive project.
We have seen numerous companies do worse with less talent, and more money. We have also seen D bags on Kickstarter take the money and run...
On the whole, I can't honestly fault his efforts. It might have been disappointing, but in the scheme of a Kickstarter- from going from zero to 100, he has done a pretty good job.
I'm personally happy with the effort, even if he didn't foresee the dicking he was going to get on shipping and handling. I give him credit for being honest, keeping information flow going, and product still being available post project.
Good job and good luck, Adam Poots. Great game, and an excellent start on a great game system.
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Post by: youwashock
Not the news I was hoping to read.
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Post by: SeanDrake
Honestly I know he is a business man but in that case why could he not just say" look I don't really want to sell you the main expansion that we promised and sold for $45 because I now know you mugs will pay $150+ in the next KS that happens to launch next week"
Really the thing that rubs me up the wrong way is that he has KS a product and had the tooling done with those funds, but is now most likely going to sell that completed product in his next KS.
The refund is ok but all that shows me is that he figures an $125000 outlay now for a $375000+ later is a good deal for him.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
SeanDrake wrote:Looks like his mouth wrote a cheque his wallet was not willing to cash.
For all the blather about art and artistic integrity all of poots decisons can be traced to his bottom line.
Fully expect all the completed models from the lantern festival paid for by this KS to appear in the next KS for 3x the price.
I will not be backing the next KS this one was that late I had got married and started a family by the time it even started to deliver. I then got gouged for additional postage due to poots costs being 3 years out of date.
Finally refund or not poots failed to complete this KS .
It seems to come down to -
Artistic integrity which causes delays or additonal costs to backer = Good
Artistic integrity which costs Poot's $,cash or reduces his potential future profits = Bad
This KS has shown me that poots is either incompetent or has the scruples of GW and as such I will not be risking money on an uncertain return at an uncertain time in the future.
That's a fething crock of gak. Adam subsidized KD:M with the sales of resins, in order to deliver a superior product that met his vision. He probably overran the budget (and subsidized it) to the tune of $250k. That's why we paid $90 for a $400 game. I bet it wasn't until a few months ago that he broke even on KD:M, where a CMoN KS would have netted a 5-10% profit.
Tell you what though, you can use your $45 Lantern Festival refund to buy my Robotech Tactics MAC-II Monster ($40) and $5 worth of Wave 2 Stretch Goals, and see what real incompetence and unscrupulous behavior looks like. C'mon, do it! Automatically Appended Next Post: Undead_Love-Machine wrote:Artistic merit aside, is there anyone who genuinely believes that Adam's decision to not deliver the Lantern Festival wasn't based primarily on money?
Me. I didn't back Lantern Festival because it didn't match the other major expansions. It was just a random grab bag of cool models, where the others created armor sets that you'd hunt and build. At some level, it should have been comparable to the Sunstalker expansion, with a new Boss and new objectives. But it just wasn't.
Now that isn't to say the models aren't nice - they are. And for people like Bob, who were only in it for the models, I get that.
But if you're looking for the models with the theme and the story, which is hat Adam's vision was, then one has to conclude that the Lantern Festival really missed the mark.
And if you just want to look at the money, again, compare with the Sunstalker Expansion: Sunstalker, 2 People of the Sun, and Armor set. Very comparable content, similar KS pricing. Adam didn't kill the Sunstalker for money reasons. Especially as he already tooled and popped the Lantern Festival. He could deliver them as a "naked" expansion, but it's not what he wants to do. Especially considering how Adam subsidized pretty much all of the other KS content.
My guess, and he pretty much laid it out, is that his vision for the Lantern Festival requires 2 additional Armor Sets (guessing Royal & Scribed) to make it "complete", with moves it from a $125 major expansion up to a $200 mega-expansion. Which is why he's looking to repackage it as an Epilogue set to bookend the KD:M core starter set. At least, that's what I'd do with it.
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Post by: Undead_Love-Machine
Yes, okay John, if you say so. Money has nothing to do with it
I suppose the truth will be apparent once the models from the the Lantern Festival hit retail. Then we can judge from the price can't we?
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Undead_Love-Machine wrote:Yes, okay John, if you say so. Money has nothing to do with it I suppose the truth will be apparent once the models from the the Lantern Festival hit retail. Then we can judge from the price can't we?
I do say so, based on a straight reading of what Adam wrote, and how I perceive the product, thanks. Also, if you just engage your brain, you'd recognize the difference between "based primarily on money" and "nothing to do with it". Maybe you should think about it, because those aren't the only two possibilities.  If the models are sold and packaged exactly as the KS1 Lantern Festival, perhaps. But I doubt that is what Adam will do, based on what Adam wrote. Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, if you're going to post this, then you should mean it. Otherwise, it exposes you to be an even greater money-grubbing hypocrite than what you accuse Adam of being.
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Post by: SeanDrake
JohnHwangDD wrote:SeanDrake wrote:Looks like his mouth wrote a cheque his wallet was not willing to cash.
For all the blather about art and artistic integrity all of poots decisons can be traced to his bottom line.
Fully expect all the completed models from the lantern festival paid for by this KS to appear in the next KS for 3x the price.
I will not be backing the next KS this one was that late I had got married and started a family by the time it even started to deliver. I then got gouged for additional postage due to poots costs being 3 years out of date.
Finally refund or not poots failed to complete this KS .
It seems to come down to -
Artistic integrity which causes delays or additonal costs to backer = Good
Artistic integrity which costs Poot's $,cash or reduces his potential future profits = Bad
This KS has shown me that poots is either incompetent or has the scruples of GW and as such I will not be risking money on an uncertain return at an uncertain time in the future.
That's a fething crock of gak. Adam subsidized KD:M with the sales of resins, in order to deliver a superior product that met his vision. He probably overran the budget (and subsidized it) to the tune of $250k. That's why we paid $90 for a $400 game. I bet it wasn't until a few months ago that he broke even on KD:M, where a CMoN KS would have netted a 5-10% profit.
Tell you what though, you can use your $45 Lantern Festival refund to buy my Robotech Tactics MAC-II Monster ($40) and $5 worth of Wave 2 Stretch Goals, and see what real incompetence and unscrupulous behavior looks like. C'mon, do it!
Sorry not sure what your lack of due diligence to have given that buch of incompetents cash in advance has to do with me not being happy about poots taking my cash for 5 years then returning it hoping I will back the next KS for the same item at 3-4x the price.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
First, I was aware of Palladium being stupid, but I was hoping it was just a conduit for Ninja Division. I was wrong about that.
Second, KD:M was funded January 7 of 2013. It is currently November 2013. Only 3-odd years have passed, not "5 years" as you've claimed.
Third, the KS TOS says that he either delivers as promised or refunds your money. He refunded ALL of your money, which is more than I can say for the fether behind Robotech Tactics. Or any number of other failed / failing KS projects.
Finally, however he chooses to sell those items, that's his business. If you choose not to back it, that's on you, and your oversized sense of entitlement.
W
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Post by: ubik2000
He's been up front for months about the design issues with the Lantern Festival - I suspect if it wasn't for those issues it really would have been included in the wave with the rest of the expansions. I'm sure looking at the balance sheet helps with making the call to cancel it, but does anyone really doubt his commitment to the game above all else? He probably would have saved himself a ton of money if he had scaled back the base game during development. He could have done that and still technically met the KS commitments, but he didn't, because he's a bit of a nut. To castigate him as simply profit obsessed now demonstrates a bit of a short memory.
I'm disappointed, sure, but considering the amount I paid for the game + all expansions vs. what it goes for now, it seems churlish to complain. Besides, it was $45, not a marriage.
Fortunately, if you're that displeased, there is the perfect way to express it - just don't back the next KS.
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Post by: gohkm
It's a tad disappointing, but I'll evaluate KD-KS2 on its own merit.
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Post by: SeanDrake
JohnHwangDD wrote:First, I was aware of Palladium being stupid, but I was hoping it was just a conduit for Ninja Division. I was wrong about that.
Second, KD:M was funded January 7 of 2013. It is currently November 2013. Only 3-odd years have passed, not "5 years" as you've claimed.
Third, the KS TOS says that he either delivers as promised or refunds your money. He refunded ALL of your money, which is more than I can say for the fether behind Robotech Tactics. Or any number of other failed / failing KS projects.
Finally, however he chooses to sell those items, that's his business. If you choose not to back it, that's on you, and your oversized sense of entitlement.
W
Well if we are bringing in KS tos then surely your sense of entitlement regarding Robotech not delivering is just as large as mine as they have delivered something's and are "working" on the rest.
Look if your happy to take a golden shower of poots and back again that is your prerogative however I backed poots for somthing he offered, at a price he offered for somthing that he made a number of posts on during the campaign, he was then more than happy to take the cash for close to 4 years.
I suspect that the refund was provided as much to allow him to run the next KS without bad publicity(see prodos) as much as it was about his bottom line.
Honestly from your description of events and circumstances if you belived that and still back his next KS then thats weirder than me backing it. As from your point of view he is a terrible business man with little grasp of running a KS.
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Post by: Undead_Love-Machine
JohnHwangDD wrote: Undead_Love-Machine wrote:Yes, okay John, if you say so. Money has nothing to do with it
I suppose the truth will be apparent once the models from the the Lantern Festival hit retail. Then we can judge from the price can't we?
I do say so, based on a straight reading of what Adam wrote, and how I perceive the product, thanks. Also, if you just engage your brain, you'd recognize the difference between "based primarily on money" and "nothing to do with it". Maybe you should think about it, because those aren't the only two possibilities.
If the models are sold and packaged exactly as the KS1 Lantern Festival, perhaps. But I doubt that is what Adam will do, based on what Adam wrote.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, if you're going to post this, then you should mean it.
Otherwise, it exposes you to be an even greater money-grubbing hypocrite than what you accuse Adam of being.
Oh, but I did mean it. I'll just have to accept that it makes me a "money-grubbing hypocrite".
Honestly I have no idea what you are talking about, I guess I'm just not "engaging my brain".
I sometimes find your overly-aggressive argumentative ways to be amusing, but I guess i'm just not in the right frame of mind tonight. My bad!
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
double post
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Post by: RedSarge
Hmm.. kinda shocked.. but not really surprised.. I guess I've set my standards really low for KS projects, to the point that it's like gambling, except with stuff I actually love... miniatures and things made of cardboard!
Alas, USD is worth more than CAD so... win?
...
....
.....
:(
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Post by: Krinsath
While very disappointed by the cancellation, I find I cannot muster any actual anger. Holding aside that the product I did receive was in excess of what I imagined I'd get when I backed the campaign in 2013, from the outset the result of "refund with an explanation" was defined as an acceptable (if not wholly satisfactory) outcome. That's been given, and while the collector in me still wanted to get the models, I'm not sure I need more things lying around with no purpose so I don't think getting them without the promised rules would have really been what I wanted in the long-term. Mileage may vary there naturally.
Also I'm sure cost was a major driving factor, but I do think that the things not working for what he wanted played into it just as much. Adam seems to be very much the artiste who will dump massively more than is needed into a project that fits his vision, and pull the plug at the 11th hour on something that doesn't; I've seen nothing in his behavior to contradict that opinion. Likely looking down the road the business calculus of "why sell for $45 what I can sell for $150+" could factor in as well, but even if it does then so long as the backers have been made whole I can't bring up any vitriol for it. Remembering that he put in his own money (I want to say in an interview at GenCon '15 it was mentioned that it was about $750k, but memory fades), I just can't buy the "he's selling us things we paid for" argument; it looks like one of those "it feels good to think but doesn't actually hold up" positions to me.
While a very sour note to end the campaign on, looking back across the entire project the only things I really find fault with are the (continued) lack of official assembly instructions/ published document of parts mislabeled and the manner in which the shipping was handled for the expansions where there was very little notice given. With the benefit of full hindsight, outside of the obvious of not ordering the Lantern Festival I'm not sure I'd really do anything significantly different as regards this project. With knowledge of how things would eventually turn out I'd actually have probably spent a bit more.
So while I wouldn't say I'm particularly happy with these latest circumstances, I'll likely be supporting their next KS project unless something else changes in the interim.
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Post by: Moopy
Whole lotta folks looking for bad intentions where there aren't any.
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
Don't think there are bad intentions, but I think he handled things pretty poorly.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
A lot of people are cutting him slack because "we got such a great deal." Not all of us.
I pledged for two expansions and one add on. That's it. The Dragon King, the Lantern Festival and 5 Kingsmen. I paid a fair amount on top of my pledge for shipping. Then I paid $17 more for the Dragon King's shipping. I'm not so wowed by my epic savings. I'm not so sure I trust him not to pull the same hidden fees game if I pledge for the (more expensive) Lantern Festival in the next KS.
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
That's rough.
And yeah, I feel a lot of people seem to think that him going above and beyond in some capacities make him untouchable on everything else. Plus that ever-present fanboy mentality that buying in to something is aligning your lifestyle to it, and that criticizing it is criticizing your lifestyle, which must be defended.
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Post by: streetsamurai
Rather disappointing. While im pretty happy with the deal i got ( still, i dont think the end product is worth 400$, but at a 100$ it was a very good deal) there's a few thing that were really mishandled and would make me reconsider backing another ks (cough assembly guides cough).
Must say that it is very interesting, sociologically wise, to see the cult mentality that has developped around kd.
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
Don't think it's at all specific to KD: look at any reasonably but not extremely popular game, and I think you'll see a similar mode develop sooner or later.
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Post by: Sythica
Responding in a debate with the equivalent of "you're just in a fanboi cult" is much the same as people who say "at the end of day, [insert actual position here]". It really is meaningless.
Disparaging the motive of the person you are debating with doesn't do anything to further your own position. Especially in the case of Kingdom Death, where the company simply would not exist without a core group of genuine fans.
Not everything has to meet everyone's expectations.
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Post by: Breotan
As Tannhauser42 said, there really is no justification for the vitriol that's being generated about this. I am disappointed that he cancelled the last expansion but he did refund everyone and didn't skimp on quality for what he did deliver (everything else). We got a LOT with this kickstarter. We got a great game with amazing models for a comparatively light investment.
Consider McVey/CMoN who gave us that disastrous Alabaster thing. What a feth farm that was. You can also look at Raging Heroes who started a new Kickstarter before fulfillment was completed on the first one. Or other kickstarters who seemed to disappear once the money had been collected.
It's okay to be disappointed with this latest update and to even be a little annoyed should the Lantern models appear in his upcoming kickstarter (they likely will) but saying stuff like, "poots is either incompetent or has the scruples of GW" is nothing more than trolling for the sake of trolling.
To those who are posting that they won't be backing his next project; none of you are obligated to continue to buy from Poots or anyone else so, see ya. To those who post that they'll look it over and either pledge or not based on what Poots has to offer, I'm right there with ya.
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Post by: Moopy
Also a sick of people pulling the "cult" card when people won't agree with their post.
Nothing like demonizing people to marginalize them.
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Post by: streetsamurai
people are not pulling the cult card cause they disagree with others, they are pulling it cause some are blindly defending Poots and almost painting him as a saint (always laugh when I see some people pretending that Poots is actually losing huge sums of money on KD, or that it doesn't matter that he still haven't gave us asssembly guide cause some (bad) unofficial ones exist). Even if it bothers you, some will call a spade a spade.
Though, to be honest, some are also way too critical of him. At the end of the day, he seems like a pretty decent guy, and he gave us a quality product, but he's also far from being above criticism (must say that the t-shirt thing is a bit cynical)
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
I think the t-shirt thing is a bit of fun (although it can clearly be taken as cynical)
but remember when the pinups of death box first launched with a discount, he offered the option to pay full price for it too to support the company
and those that did make that choice found something extra in their packages as a thank you for their faith (I missed out as I grabbed the discount)
i'm certainly not saying he'll do something similar with the t-shirt but I do wonder if he might (perhaps combined with the new KS)
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
streetsamurai wrote:people are not pulling the cult card cause they disagree with others, they are pulling it cause some are blindly defending Poots and almost painting him as a saint (always laugh when I see some people pretending that Poots is actually losing huge sums of money on KD, or that it doesn't matter that he still haven't gave us asssembly guide cause some (bad) unofficial ones exist). Even if it bothers you, some will call a spade a spade.
Though, to be honest, some are also way too critical of him. At the end of the day, he seems like a pretty decent guy, and he gave us a quality product, but he's also far from being above criticism (must say that the t-shirt thing is a bit cynical)
Well put. IDK, it's hard to get perspective when I'm personally invested in something and it feels like expression of that investment gets labeled as vitriol instead of "hey, this point is fine, this point is a bit of a stretch," so there's not much room to debate (and, in doing so, refine opinions, recognize your own flaws, etc.).
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Post by: Alendrel
I'm super salty about the cancellation, but the nigh-conspiracy levels of thought going into this from some quarters is beyond the pale.
Also, one thing that I think a lot of people forget is that, for better and for worse, KD:M was one of the very first huge runaway gaming KS projects - it plunged into uncharted territory that we, looking back with three years of experience and dealing with later projects that learned from KD:M's troubles and mistakes, seems very well-tread and handled now.
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
That's a fair point, it really was in the second and still very early set of large game KS's.
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Post by: Bromsy
 Breotan wrote:As Tannhauser42 said, there really is no justification for the vitriol that's being generated about this. I am disappointed that he cancelled the last expansion but he did refund everyone and didn't skimp on quality for what he did deliver (everything else). We got a LOT with this kickstarter. We got a great game with amazing models for a comparatively light investment.
Consider McVey/CMoN who gave us that disastrous Alabaster thing. What a feth farm that was. You can also look at Raging Heroes who started a new Kickstarter before fulfillment was completed on the first one. Or other kickstarters who seemed to disappear once the money had been collected.
It's okay to be disappointed with this latest update and to even be a little annoyed should the Lantern models appear in his upcoming kickstarter (they likely will) but saying stuff like, "poots is either incompetent or has the scruples of GW" is nothing more than trolling for the sake of trolling.
To those who are posting that they won't be backing his next project; none of you are obligated to continue to buy from Poots or anyone else so, see ya. To those who post that they'll look it over and either pledge or not based on what Poots has to offer, I'm right there with ya.
Indeed. I backed Sedition Wars and was super let down. I got everything I pledged for, and it was significantly less awesome than I'd hoped for. Kingdom Death blew me away. Taking your time and really making sure that everything about your game or project is of the highest standard and meets or exceeds your expectations is the way I'd prefer. I will wait longer and risk having some of the stuff I wanted not show up - with a refund and apology - than have a sub par product. I can understand why people who only wanted the minis are upset, hopefully in the next kickstarter there is the option of buying solely the specific miniatures that would have been shipped for a reasonable price.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Sedition Wars had the problem that minis were fine, but the game itself was awful, and made worse in the 2nd edition rules, which people paid for and found incorporated absolutely ZERO community feedback or testing. That completely killed the game for me.
Kingdom Death overdelivered on quality and quality. Big difference.
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Post by: Vorian
Sedition wars had miniatures so bad that I never even tried out the rules to see how bad they were :p
For KD, yes, the nonsense about how he's trying to swindle people is silly - but the "quality" explanation is disingenuous.
If there was the choice of miniatures only or a refund - or if he'd just said I can't afford it anymore without bankrupting myself then it would feel less like I'm being taken for a fool.
Still, as others have said, we got a great deal on the other stuff, so the relatively little amount lost on this refund malarkey isn't too hard to take
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
I am sorry SW minis were not fine, just looking at them puts me off from even thinking of assembling them.
Seriously the only good thing that came from sedition wars was the 3D terrain and one box that I made a comfortable bed for my cat.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
I guess I should clarify - the SW minis were a PITA to assemble, but they looked fine when built.
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Post by: SickBunny
Another thing to consider is that when the actual Kingdom Death: Monster Kickstarter campaign was going on, the assumption was that the miniatures would have been softer plastic, like in the "Experiment of Death"-kit which was similar to the material of Reapers Bones-models. Poots then proceeded to throw in enough of his own resources to upgrade each and everyone of those miniatures into proper (and vastly more expensive), incredibly high quality HIPS-models. So him not being able to deliver the same quality for the biggest individual expansion of the game for 45$... I have no problem believing that. Also he had cited gameplay-problems with the expansion from early on, so his own dissatisfaction with the product was well established and it is obvious he really wanted to deliver, but in the end, just could not justify the final product for the cost involved.
I personally do feel sad for not getting an extension to the campaign play as admittedly, it is a harder sell to my regular gaming group to hurl them into that dark purgatory with only the promise of miserable death at the end when the lights go out/Mother Sun devours/Dragon detonates. So, personal loss but one I can completely understand from a delightfully mad Poots.
And I shall be throwing more money his way come the second Kickstarter simply for the appreciation I have for his pursuit of perfection in a time when so many Kickstarters fail even the most basic expectations now that you really cannot say that we all are not aware of all the pitfalls of kickstarting a boardgame or any other project.
Kingdom Death, to this day, still stands as the single, sole project that always overdelivered on every facet of the game. All you need to do is compare the original kickstarter notes to the final product and the mind simply boggles at the scope of enhancements done, mostly on Poots' own resources and money and time and effort.
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Post by: 455_PWR
The game was good as it was and was a great deal. I ended up selling my kickatarter set for just over $2000. The game was great for the kickstarter price, but I couldn't turn down that price for the game and all made expansions. I'll pledge again if the price is decent, and if the game won't be as limited.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
$2 grand? Wow. I just sold off enough odds & ends to cover the amount I spent. Even if you drop $500 to (re-)buy stuff, you're well ahead on things.
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Post by: Chopxsticks
I'll be straight up, I wanted the King, plain and simple. Adam also really irritates me. I live in world of deadlines and structure though. People seem to think its funny at this point that he fails to ever have an update when he says he will. "Pootsian time"...
The game was great, but alot of stuff is great and not a 3 year wait.
I think what also makes me angriest is that I will be backing his second KS after putting up with this crap for 3 years... I at least want the new rule book and cards, but fear the wait..
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
In our group, we liked him to Michaelangelo painting the Sistene Chapel.
Pope Julius II - When will you make an end?
Michaelangelo - When I am finished!
Pulling the plug on the Lantern Festival is entirely in character, akin to Michaelangelo smashing his own statuary because it was not right.
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Post by: primalexile
Has anyone received their refund?
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Post by: ImAGeek
JohnHwangDD wrote:In our group, we liked him to Michaelangelo painting the Sistene Chapel.
Pope Julius II - When will you make an end?
Michaelangelo - When I am finished!
Pulling the plug on the Lantern Festival is entirely in character, akin to Michaelangelo smashing his own statuary because it was not right.
Artists, eh?
I really want to back the next Kickstarter (kicking myself for not backing the original!) but I'm worried about the price. It ended up being about $300 for the game didn't it?
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Post by: Chopxsticks
I got my refund notification before I got my Kickstarter update email. Though I already had a paypal account, and made a purchase for the Wet Nurse test sculpts some time ago.
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
I got the refund before the email too, it sits on the paypal balance.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
Yes. Already spent it on GW products.
Will also buy more Sedition Wars...
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Post by: Chopxsticks
hahaha, dude I bought some Sisters of Silence off ebay as soon as the fund hit.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
yes mine came through on 6th Nov (in $US)
it's going to go the email address you used for the KS so if you've switched it you may need to contact them
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Post by: Alendrel
Chopxsticks wrote:
I think what also makes me angriest is that I will be backing his second KS after putting up with this crap for 3 years... I at least want the new rule book and cards, but fear the wait.
The updated rulebook and card pack will be in the KD store, not a KS item. The big question for people that already have the games is if any new expansions are going to be funded via the KS.
JohnHwangDD wrote:In our group, we liked him to Michaelangelo painting the Sistene Chapel.
Pope Julius II - When will you make an end?
Michaelangelo - When I am finished!
Pulling the plug on the Lantern Festival is entirely in character, akin to Michaelangelo smashing his own statuary because it was not right.
So true, so true...which is why I believe that while financial considerations were a factor in cancelling the Lantern Festival, the stated reasons was the prime cause, with financial being more of a "making a very hard decision a bit easier" on his part. He *is* a diva, after all.
ImAGeek wrote:
I really want to back the next Kickstarter (kicking myself for not backing the original!) but I'm worried about the price. It ended up being about $300 for the game didn't it?
Final retail for KD:M was $400. It's a case of yes, it's a lot of money if ultimately you just let it sit around - but if you build and paint models and play it even semi-regularly, there's certainly $400 worth of content there. I suspect the KS reprint price will be lower, with $300 being a "Would be really nice without overreaching but don't count on it" on the hopes and expectations.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Is SW still super cheap? I still have my box set, 95% built, gathering dust.
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