yukishiro1 wrote: The thing with the spirit being able to move in the opponent's shooting phase is obviously a typical GW proofreading /fail, if anyone actually tries to play it like that prior to the FAQ they should be shamed as "that guy" and I would certainly hope no TO would let them do it.
Can we see how the rule is actually written before we leap to conclusions? It may well be deliberate.
If it's intentional, that's even more embarrassing for GW.
Sotahullu wrote: Well I am more interested in the lore and there seems to be some interesting things.
‘Interesting things’ is putting it very lightly, if the spoilers on TGA are true. Not sure how I feel about them presently, but a deeper dive and my own reading will hopefully sort it out.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I think the regular wind spirit is tricky, but can be dealt with. My bigger concern is that armies with shooting will just... kill it. Like Eltharion it is a model that tends to be extremely powerful or decidedly poor based on matchup.
The special character version I think may be a problem, because he has enough extra stuff going on for it to be very difficult to play around, again unless the enemy army shoots well in which case he'll just die. Movement shenanigans can help, but eventually there is only going to be so much board space left to run to.
Looking across the new releases I keep thinking that the likes of Tzeentch, KO, and Seraphon are just going to obliterate them. It reinforces my initial perception that while they have a lot of cool tricks they just aren't that overpowered because they require proper tactical context to work. The raw power that some armies can unleash is a far bigger balance issue, and one we have already been dealing with.
Plus, Teclis & Sentinels are already the biggest cheese of the army and I don't see anything in the new releases that competes.
Agree re: a lot of this stuff getting shot off the table, but it's a sign of bad unit design when the unit is either oppressively broken if the opponent doesn't have long-ranged damage, or wasted points if they do. Especially when long-ranged damage is top of the meta. It just makes the strong stronger and the weak even weaker. The last thing this game needed was a virtually unchargable ranged unit that moves 36" a turn with move-shoot-move (+move again before your opponent's charge phase) that can also pile out 6" and reduce enemy pile-ins by 2" on top of all that. It's a literal joke of stacked anti-melee abilities in a game that absolutely does not need that.
That aside, the only thing I think is really broken in the new stuff is giving Teclis an auto-casting teleport that can even be used to get a unit out of combat. This is the absolute last thing the game needed. LRL's one weakness prior to this release was being bad at playing the mission. Giving the NPE Teclis + Sentinels build an autocastable teleport takes that build from lame to play against but beatable because it struggles to play the mission to something that is lame to play against and also very good at the mission.
There's something that's a bit wrong with these bladelords. Can't put my finger on it, but i just dont like them as much as i should (considering elves samurai is a neat concept)
They'd feel pretty good in any other army I think, they just feel a bit underwhelming in an army where every other unit has at least one amazing special ability that likely ignores one of the basic rules of the game. It says something when "can choose to auto-hit in combat" feels "meh" in comparison to your other options.
Oh, you mean the models. Yeah, they're a bit odd. They look stiff, the models don't capture a sense of motion at all. Compare them to say Namarti Thralls and the difference is pretty stark. They look like statues.
I think the only models I don't like from Lumineth are the two models they've done with two models on the same stand. Both have cool poses for the individual models, but they are just "put" together. There's no real link between them.
Sphinx and Teclis is the worst, he's just sort of hovering there hanging on a wing. Both look like they were sculpted to stand apart (likely with the mage in a whirl of effects) and then someone said "eh lets mash them together" about 5 mins before the design was sent off to be made into a mould. Heck if I got the model I'd be very tempted to leave Teclis off
Don't like that circular thing they have in the chest. Seems tacked on. I think they would look better and less busy without it. What's that supposed to be by the way? A magical charm?
Koveras wrote: Don't like that circular thing they have in the chest. Seems tacked on. I think they would look better and less busy without it. What's that supposed to be by the way? A magical charm?
Aetherquartz, probably.
That's the Lumineth's warpstone/aether gold/ur-gold/special material that is the focal point of that AOS faction
Koveras wrote: Don't like that circular thing they have in the chest. Seems tacked on. I think they would look better and less busy without it. What's that supposed to be by the way? A magical charm?
If they're wearing a flight suit, it's probably the life support gear.
Ooh I’ll have that with my purchase.
My GW will have everything from Jan onwards, and I’m grabbing Cursed City, so I should get to pick two to have.
This and one other I haven’t decided on yet..
Warhammer Age of Sigmar fans rejoice! Every week this month, we’re showcasing a new miniature set to star in an upcoming Broken Realms book. What’s more, we’re kicking things off this week with a double-whammy – a father-and-daughter combo hailing from the witch-hunting Order of Azyr.
First up, meet Galen ven Denst, an uncompromising new Hero who’s joining the ranks of the Cities of Sigmar in the near future.
This veteran witch hunter has seen hundreds of witches, heretics, and living dead burned at the stake during his illustrious career. Armed with a holy pistol and his trusty rune-etched broadsword, Galen ven Denst can slay the vilest creatures and even banish endless spells with a determined strike from his blessed weapons. He may be long in the tooth but, make no mistake, nothing gets between this grim huntsman and his quarry.
In recent years, Galen ven Denst rarely works alone – he’s often accompanied by his fellow witch hunter, who also happens to be his daughter, Doralia ven Denst.
Unlike her father, who prefers to look his prey in the eye as he slays them, Doralia hunts primarily with her enormous crossbow. Its consecrated bolts hit with murderous power, and Doralia is rightly feared for her unerring accuracy with her weapon of choice.
However, more than one of her would-be killers made the error of thinking she can’t also handle a blade and found themselves disembowelled or bereft of a head.
So far, Morathi and Teclis have each had their own book in the Broken Realms series, with Be’lakor and Kragnos on the way too. Every instalment in the saga introduces a momentous new chapter in the history of the Mortal Realms, so you don’t want to miss any of them.
Quite when and where the ven Densts will make an appearance remains a mystery for now, but know that they’re coming soon. For now, grab yourself Battletome: Cities of Sigmar and a few units like some hardy Freeguild Greatswords to accompany the ven Densts, and keep an eye out next week for another Broken Realms model reveal.
Love it. The hat is such an improvement on the daughter; makes her the coolest witch hunter of the three plastic ones.
Gotta resist the temptation of giving the dad dual pistols (I hope it's an option, but I'm guessing the intended loadout is pistol and sword or pistol and brazier. Hope he has a hat too.
Like Jelsen Darrock, these are absolutely gorgeous Witch Hunters, and I love them. The main issue for me is they are AoS characters, when I really want them for Warcry.
Please GW, you are on a Witch Hunting roll! Give us an Order of Azyr Warband!
Yeah, daughter with hat is really nifty. I'm also positively surprised by the lack of skulls (1 on dad's chest, 1 on either side of the daughter's sword pommel?) and Sigmarite iconography, while both still have the usual AoS abundance of gear, belts etc. Good job here, GW.
MobileSuitRandom wrote: Yeah, daughter with hat is really nifty. I'm also positively surprised by the lack of skulls (1 on dad's chest, 1 on either side of the daughter's sword pommel?) and Sigmarite iconography, while both still have the usual AoS abundance of gear, belts etc. Good job here, GW.
Yeah the lack of comets is weird (but also great.)
With the Cursed City guy, Jelsen got kicked out of the order of Azyr, so him not having sigmar icons all over himself is understandable. But these two are clearly heretics
MobileSuitRandom wrote: Yeah, daughter with hat is really nifty. I'm also positively surprised by the lack of skulls (1 on dad's chest, 1 on either side of the daughter's sword pommel?) and Sigmarite iconography, while both still have the usual AoS abundance of gear, belts etc. Good job here, GW.
When it comes to 'adventuring hero' types rather than the likes of army officers I personally really like them having a ton of gear strapped on. It makes sense and enhances the 'PC who showed up to take part in the battle' look. It also makes them excellent for double-duty as RPG figures.
I also have to echo all those saying how great these two look, and that the hat is clearly the superior equipment option.
Papa-Schlumpf wrote: The father is great and the daughter even has a pretty face. I like them both, just the crossbow is a little too big for me at first glance.
Do all witch hunters get big swords as a gift for their passed exams? All 3 of them have one. Is something written in the lore about that?
GW weapon size conventions prohibit weapons of ever being a normal size
Papa-Schlumpf wrote: The father is great and the daughter even has a pretty face. I like them both, just the crossbow is a little too big for me at first glance.
Do all witch hunters get big swords as a gift for their passed exams? All 3 of them have one. Is something written in the lore about that?
GW weapon size conventions prohibit weapons of ever being a normal size
Very nice models.. they really are doing some crackers for AoS at the moment - these along with the heroes in Cursed City show they could do something really cool with an update to Cities Of Sigmar. These I'd get just as a nice painting project.
GaroRobe wrote:Gotta resist the temptation of giving the dad dual pistols (I hope it's an option, but I'm guessing the intended loadout is pistol and sword or pistol and brazier. Hope he has a hat too.
How is that a problem? He has extra sword on his belt, just count it as one in sword/pistol combo even if he somehow doesn't have the option (because yes bit, no rule is rare for GW.
MobileSuitRandom wrote:Yeah, daughter with hat is really nifty. I'm also positively surprised by the lack of skulls (1 on dad's chest, 1 on either side of the daughter's sword pommel?)
Broken Realms: Be'lakor goes on pre-order next Saturday along with Be'lakor, four warscroll battalion boxes (Tzeentch daemons, Stegadons, Lady Nighthaunts and Endinriggers) and these guys...
Quasistellar wrote: Anyone else noticed the build options for Belakor are 40k, AoS, or "neither"?
Does this mean that this will be the new Daemon Prince kit?
No. It just means that you can choose to build it with e.g. Stormcast trophies or Space Marine trophies or without both. It's not a new generic DP kit, although I certainly hope we receive one having seen what they can do
Quasistellar wrote: Anyone else noticed the build options for Belakor are 40k, AoS, or "neither"?
Does this mean that this will be the new Daemon Prince kit?
No. It just means that you can choose to build it with e.g. Stormcast trophies or Space Marine trophies or without both. It's not a new generic DP kit, although I certainly hope we receive one having seen what they can do
Yeah, I assume they mean primaris on base, chaos warrior on base, or nothing. But the model will definitely be AOS or 40k themed, based on the skulls you hang on his wings (plus there's way more little details on his base that connect them to either game), so I'm not sure what they mean by "neither"
Yeah, I assume they mean primaris on base, chaos warrior on base, or nothing. But the model will definitely be AOS or 40k themed, based on the skulls you hang on his wings (plus there's way more little details on his base that connect them to either game), so I'm not sure what they mean by "neither"
They mean neither- setting neutral. You don't put a chaos warrior or primaris marine on the base, and you just use plain skulls on the wings(appropriate to either game), no helmets or whatever. The other 'little details' can also be left out.
Honestly I'm surprised to see him so quickly- he only got shown off last month.
Not really enthused by either of the other new characters or the 'army boxes.'
I presume the witch hunter family duo will be feature in book 4: AoS mystery creature.
Tiberius501 wrote: Be’lakor is hilariously costed. Nearly as much as Archaon? Hahahahaha
So at GW's insane** exchange rate, that'll probably be over $300AUD? If so, screw that. It's a nice model and I'd like it, but it's not $300 worth of nice. Is he about the size of a Bloodthirster?
**insane because GW's GBP to AUD exchange rate seems to be about 2.8 AUD to 1 GBP, even though the actual rate is closer to 1.8 and has been for the past decade, and other than a brief spell during the GFC you have to go back almost 2 decades to find when it was last close to 2.8.
Tiberius501 wrote: Be’lakor is hilariously costed. Nearly as much as Archaon? Hahahahaha
So at GW's insane** exchange rate, that'll probably be over $300AUD? If so, screw that. It's a nice model and I'd like it, but it's not $300 worth of nice. Is he about the size of a Bloodthirster?
**insane because GW's GBP to AUD exchange rate seems to be about 2.8 AUD to 1 GBP, even though the actual rate is closer to 1.8 and has been for the past decade, and other than a brief spell during the GFC you have to go back almost 2 decades to find when it was last close to 2.8.
I think I’m actually wrong, which I’m happy about. Looking at other stuff costing 110 euro, the greater daemons are that cost, and are $170AU. So potentially he’s okay.
Quasistellar wrote: Anyone else noticed the build options for Belakor are 40k, AoS, or "neither"?
Does this mean that this will be the new Daemon Prince kit?
No. It just means that you can choose to build it with e.g. Stormcast trophies or Space Marine trophies or without both. It's not a new generic DP kit, although I certainly hope we receive one having seen what they can do
Yeah, I assume they mean primaris on base, chaos warrior on base, or nothing. But the model will definitely be AOS or 40k themed, based on the skulls you hang on his wings (plus there's way more little details on his base that connect them to either game), so I'm not sure what they mean by "neither"
Most of the trophies are just generic (in fact, with a quick glance, I can't see anything on the AOS build's wings that isn't appropriate for 40k), and the only setting specific pieces on the base are a sword/the dead body/a handful of easily removed pieces, so I'm very confident the kit can be built in a way that caters to both settings, which would qualify as the "neither"
Tiberius501 wrote: Be’lakor is hilariously costed. Nearly as much as Archaon? Hahahahaha
So at GW's insane** exchange rate, that'll probably be over $300AUD? If so, screw that. It's a nice model and I'd like it, but it's not $300 worth of nice. Is he about the size of a Bloodthirster?
**insane because GW's GBP to AUD exchange rate seems to be about 2.8 AUD to 1 GBP, even though the actual rate is closer to 1.8 and has been for the past decade, and other than a brief spell during the GFC you have to go back almost 2 decades to find when it was last close to 2.8.
I think I’m actually wrong, which I’m happy about. Looking at other stuff costing 110 euro, the greater daemons are that cost, and are $170AU. So potentially he’s okay.
Sorry I'm an idiot, I read it as 110 pounds, 110 euro is a bit more reasonable.
Though the most recent 110 euro release I could find came out at $210AUD, so maybe still a bit worse than the $170AUD you're thinking?
Tiberius501 wrote: Be’lakor is hilariously costed. Nearly as much as Archaon? Hahahahaha
So at GW's insane** exchange rate, that'll probably be over $300AUD? If so, screw that. It's a nice model and I'd like it, but it's not $300 worth of nice. Is he about the size of a Bloodthirster?
**insane because GW's GBP to AUD exchange rate seems to be about 2.8 AUD to 1 GBP, even though the actual rate is closer to 1.8 and has been for the past decade, and other than a brief spell during the GFC you have to go back almost 2 decades to find when it was last close to 2.8.
I think I’m actually wrong, which I’m happy about. Looking at other stuff costing 110 euro, the greater daemons are that cost, and are $170AU. So potentially he’s okay.
Sorry I'm an idiot, I read it as 110 pounds, 110 euro is a bit more reasonable.
Though the most recent 110 euro release I could find came out at $210AUD, so maybe still a bit worse than the $170AUD you're thinking?
Yeah potentially. I shall guess between $170-220, but hoping closer to $170.
Tiberius501 wrote: Be’lakor is hilariously costed. Nearly as much as Archaon? Hahahahaha
Local player commented "is that real? Oddly cheas"
Mind you archaon would cost more if it would be released now. You can't compare old prices with new as gw keeps ramping standard up instead of yearly range wide price hikes.
Tiberius501 wrote: Be’lakor is hilariously costed. Nearly as much as Archaon? Hahahahaha
Local player commented "is that real? Oddly cheas"
Yeah I was potentially wrong. The exchange rates are wonky as hell in Aus. Some things that cost 110 euro come out at mighty prices in Aus. Potentially though it’ll be cheaper than what I initially thought.
On another note, I hope we get to see his rules for Sigmar this week, and I’m curious about his points too. Is he gonna end up closer to 400pts if he’s being tanked up?
So he's significantly smaller than greater daemons? As gd sized release kits are 110 atm. Also he's box you need just one which ups the price. Just be happy gw didn't ramp level up again.
Tiberius501 wrote: Be’lakor is hilariously costed. Nearly as much as Archaon? Hahahahaha
You can't compare old prices with new as gw keeps ramping standard up instead of yearly range wide price hikes.
Sure I can, see me compare them right now. GW kits have steadily lost the purchasing appeal over the last few years as they once again dropped any pretense of customer-friendly pricing and each new release is a hike. bat-man here isn't any exception.
So he's significantly smaller than greater daemons? As gd sized release kits are 110 atm. Also he's box you need just one which ups the price. Just be happy gw didn't ramp level up again.
Going by the Facebook post where he's compared to Abby's model, he's easily the same size as a LoC, which he's incidentally the same price as.
So he's significantly smaller than greater daemons? As gd sized release kits are 110 atm. Also he's box you need just one which ups the price. Just be happy gw didn't ramp level up again.
Going by the Facebook post where he's compared to Abby's model, he's easily the same size as a LoC, which he's incidentally the same price as.
Which makes this surprisingly cheap. Newer sku and special character you can field max 1
Kanluwen wrote: Honestly, the Saurus Warriors and Skinks just really need to have the same treatment as the Chaos Warriors got. Simple build body with arms to attach.
Although the Cold One Riders need a full on refresh/resculpt.
Same as the Korxigor. If they did all that I’d start a Seraphon army instantly.
Kanluwen wrote: Honestly, the Saurus Warriors and Skinks just really need to have the same treatment as the Chaos Warriors got. Simple build body with arms to attach.
Although the Cold One Riders need a full on refresh/resculpt.
Sauruses, on foot or on derpiraptors, are one of the worst sculpts GW still produces. They need way more than "simple build bodies".
Ok. It's not Mazdamundi - but if they rework his Warscroll as mentioned and he is in fact a Wizard on the scale of 'Hahahaha, No Teclis, Stop It.' then all will be well.
Hate the fact that Seraphon are supposed to have the most adept wizards in existence and this is represented by.... +1 to cast or dispel while Nagash craps out 9+ spells a turn with +3 to both casting and dispelling, Teclis can straight up auto cast and even Morathi has bonuses to casting...
Well, as a re-imagining of a classic character, Kroak wallops it out of the park just as well as Belakor! And its nice to see Seraphon getting some justice sculpt wise in AOS, the framing of the mini is very well executed, and his tactical rocks are actually useful to give him the sense of floating.
Oh man that kroak looks fantastic. Glad I held off on buying his fine cast kit. Now I’m tempted to preorder that stegadon+bastilodon battalion as well.
Man, now if they’d just update kroxigores, chameleon skinks, salamanders, razordons, saurus knights, astrolith bearer, skink star seer, and the eternity warden, we’d be golden! ;P
Kroak? That came out of nowhere and is yet another model for my display case... Maybe some of that notorious whirly stuff will have to go but that's definitely a fantastic base model to work around.
So he's significantly smaller than greater daemons? As gd sized release kits are 110 atm. Also he's box you need just one which ups the price. Just be happy gw didn't ramp level up again.
Going by the Facebook post where he's compared to Abby's model, he's easily the same size as a LoC, which he's incidentally the same price as.
Which makes this surprisingly cheap. Newer sku and special character you can field max 1
Agreed. I was pleasantly surprised when I swapped to a Euro using version.
Voss wrote: But there isn't any swirly bull gak? Its all jungle vines and ruins.
It's the same concept, though. Just in this case it doesn't look quite as fragile as most of the other 'floating' models, and looks like something that you won't have to be a Demon-level painter to make it look good.
So he's significantly smaller than greater daemons? As gd sized release kits are 110 atm. Also he's box you need just one which ups the price. Just be happy gw didn't ramp level up again.
Going by the Facebook post where he's compared to Abby's model, he's easily the same size as a LoC, which he's incidentally the same price as.
Which one?
Anyway, that's quite a nice price then. I'd be asking too much if this meant his kit would also have the option to build a generic Slann, but I'm still okay with it.
For the love of all that's unholy, why with all the floating ruins? Yet another example of just because you can doesn't mean you should.
Play Total Warhammer II and see older Army Books. That or you are just jelly that out frogmen can sit on nice palanquins while Nurglesque models had never had one actually goo.
streetsamurai wrote: Hell of a model. Shame since it seems no other lizardmen are coming with it. That range needs a complete overhaul, bar the temple guard
And the plastic dinosaurs. I have my Kroq-Gar on Grymloq and in no way does he need a remake.
streetsamurai wrote: Hell of a model. Shame since it seems no other lizardmen are coming with it. That range needs a complete overhaul, bar the temple guard
Well we don't know do other models come. This is just preview for model coming in BR: 4 or BR: 5. They wouldn't likely show all that comes in those books yet.
While maybe not likely more comes it's not ruled out yet either.
streetsamurai wrote: Hell of a model. Shame since it seems no other lizardmen are coming with it. That range needs a complete overhaul, bar the temple guard
And the plastic dinosaurs. I have my Kroq-Gar on Grymloq and in no way does he need a remake.
Absolutely true my friend. Completely forgot about these ones. I guess the saurus and the skinks are the ones that really needs a makeover
streetsamurai wrote: Hell of a model. Shame since it seems no other lizardmen are coming with it. That range needs a complete overhaul, bar the temple guard
No, the whole range does not need a complete overhaul.
Skinks, Saurus Warriors, Cold One Mounts, Salamanders/Razordons, Kroxigor, Slann and Chamleon skinks yes.
The dinos are fine.
We do NOT need another fething Terradon set. We've legit had Terradons in 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th ed Fantasy. New version every time!
streetsamurai wrote: Hell of a model. Shame since it seems no other lizardmen are coming with it. That range needs a complete overhaul, bar the temple guard
No, the whole range does not need a complete overhaul.
Skinks, Saurus Warriors, Cold One Mounts, Salamanders/Razordons, Kroxigor, Slann and Chamleon skinks yes.
The dinos are fine.
We do NOT need another fething Terradon set. We've legit had Terradons in 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th ed Fantasy. New version every time!
I actually don't mind the current Skinks. And the Kroxigor/Sallies/Razordons/Slann are okay other than being resin.
I haven't liked the newer renditions of Skinks in Blood Bowl or Underworlds, I still use my old converted Skinks for my BB team.
The Saurus are awful though. They were always "meh", being way too scrawny for how they're described in the fluff and portrayed on the table, and as plastic kits have improved they've only gotten worse next to newer gets.
The Cold Ones were hideous from the moment they were released and should never have left the drawing board looking like they do, especially when the Dark Elf ones look so good.
streetsamurai wrote: Hell of a model. Shame since it seems no other lizardmen are coming with it. That range needs a complete overhaul, bar the temple guard
No, the whole range does not need a complete overhaul.
Skinks, Saurus Warriors, Cold One Mounts, Salamanders/Razordons, Kroxigor, Slann and Chamleon skinks yes.
The dinos are fine.
We do NOT need another fething Terradon set. We've legit had Terradons in 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th ed Fantasy. New version every time!
The Cold Ones were hideous from the moment they were released and should never have left the drawing board looking like they do, especially when the Dark Elf ones look so good.
At the time they were mostly an improvement IMO on the 6th Ed DE ones the metal saurus riders were mounted on.
Arms are rather goofy, but the heads and especially pose were definitely an improvement. There’s a reason when GW made rules for a 40k grox (space cows) they said to use that model unmodified...
Obviously not a patch on the 7th Ed DE cold ones however.
Skinks, Saurus Warriors, Cold One Mounts, Salamanders/Razordons, Kroxigor, Slann and Chamleon skinks yes.
The dinos are fine.
We do NOT need another fething Terradon set. We've legit had Terradons in 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th ed Fantasy. New version every time!
Careful what you wish for.
A redesign of the Lizardmen range would result in much better looking sculpts with dynamic posing but zero options and they'd start to look weird when you have multiples dynamic poses duplicated throughout a unit. Also, a lot of things have Skinks riding on them, and suddenly the new Skinks would look better, making the older minis inferior.
Maybe just stick to the skinny Saurus, the awful Cold Ones, and taking a bunch'a non-plastic stuff (Kroxigors especially) and making them new plastic kits.
oh no, ALL those options! Two bannerpoles and two shoulder pads, three skulls on chain and one champion head choice . Such wealth of options we'd be losing!
The kits are so old they were made before GW started adding lots of options to the sprues, you need to remember.
streetsamurai wrote: Hell of a model. Shame since it seems no other lizardmen are coming with it. That range needs a complete overhaul, bar the temple guard
No, the whole range does not need a complete overhaul.
Skinks, Saurus Warriors, Cold One Mounts, Salamanders/Razordons, Kroxigor, Slann and Chamleon skinks yes.
The dinos are fine.
We do NOT need another fething Terradon set. We've legit had Terradons in 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th ed Fantasy. New version every time!
The Cold Ones were hideous from the moment they were released and should never have left the drawing board looking like they do, especially when the Dark Elf ones look so good.
At the time they were mostly an improvement IMO on the 6th Ed DE ones the metal saurus riders were mounted on.
Arms are rather goofy, but the heads and especially pose were definitely an improvement. There’s a reason when GW made rules for a 40k grox (space cows) they said to use that model unmodified...
Obviously not a patch on the 7th Ed DE cold ones however.
Oh I had forgotten about the cow-like cold ones, yeah those were awful. I guess I have my release dates mixed up. But still, I think the current Lizardmen CO Riders were disliked pretty much from when they were released.
DarkStarSabre wrote: Ok. It's not Mazdamundi - but if they rework his Warscroll as mentioned and he is in fact a Wizard on the scale of 'Hahahaha, No Teclis, Stop It.' then all will be well.
Hate the fact that Seraphon are supposed to have the most adept wizards in existence and this is represented by.... +1 to cast or dispel while Nagash craps out 9+ spells a turn with +3 to both casting and dispelling, Teclis can straight up auto cast and even Morathi has bonuses to casting...
Two of those have been literal gods since they've had AOS stats, and the third is, I believe, now one as well? Fairly sure god > floating frog when it comes to magic should be OK.
How do they compare to a Lord of Change, for a non-godly comparison?
DarkStarSabre wrote: Ok. It's not Mazdamundi - but if they rework his Warscroll as mentioned and he is in fact a Wizard on the scale of 'Hahahaha, No Teclis, Stop It.' then all will be well.
Hate the fact that Seraphon are supposed to have the most adept wizards in existence and this is represented by.... +1 to cast or dispel while Nagash craps out 9+ spells a turn with +3 to both casting and dispelling, Teclis can straight up auto cast and even Morathi has bonuses to casting...
Two of those have been literal gods since they've had AOS stats, and the third is, I believe, now one as well? Fairly sure god > floating frog when it comes to magic should be OK.
How do they compare to a Lord of Change, for a non-godly comparison?
My impression was that Seraphon > Gods in terms of power, at least for the most ancient of Slaan. That the battlefields of the Old World were young to them and that the Realms are just one more battleground that they will fight against Chaos over.
Note that for all Sigmar's work the Seraphon did what he did only better and long before. In the original lore when the AoS realms were new all Seraphon were just created from magic, the minds of which were safe on huge ark ships. They didn't appear to suffer the issues that Stormcast do with mental instability problems and memory issues as a result of multiple reforgings.
So if anything I'd say the order of power is something like
Godbeasts seem to vary a lot in power, so they are a bit harder to pin down. Though at a push I'd slip them in somewhere between Mortal Realms Gods and Chaos Gods
Whilst that puts Greater Demons at the end, lets not forget that they are still supremely powerful and that there are many more of them than the other categories. They are also the primary force by which Chaos Gods act on the Realms, seeing as we've never had one made manifest in the realms before. That said Slaanesh's new baby/form/thing might well be a new tier creature of a higher level of power.
streetsamurai wrote: Hell of a model. Shame since it seems no other lizardmen are coming with it. That range needs a complete overhaul, bar the temple guard
No, the whole range does not need a complete overhaul.
Skinks, Saurus Warriors, Cold One Mounts, Salamanders/Razordons, Kroxigor, Slann and Chamleon skinks yes.
The dinos are fine.
We do NOT need another fething Terradon set. We've legit had Terradons in 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th ed Fantasy. New version every time!
Really? I can only picture the original classic metal, and then the ones in the dual kit which in my mind are the current ones?
Maybe just stick to the skinny Saurus, the awful Cold Ones, and taking a bunch'a non-plastic stuff (Kroxigors especially) and making them new plastic kits.
Nah, I'll take the dynamic poses in new sculpts over the skinny saurus'. I'm not too picky about the same pose being duplicated so long as the model itself still looks cool, and as the current Saurus models don't even live up to the art work very well (and never really have) I eagerly await the day those kits get a refresh.
DarkStarSabre wrote: Ok. It's not Mazdamundi - but if they rework his Warscroll as mentioned and he is in fact a Wizard on the scale of 'Hahahaha, No Teclis, Stop It.' then all will be well.
Hate the fact that Seraphon are supposed to have the most adept wizards in existence and this is represented by.... +1 to cast or dispel while Nagash craps out 9+ spells a turn with +3 to both casting and dispelling, Teclis can straight up auto cast and even Morathi has bonuses to casting...
Two of those have been literal gods since they've had AOS stats, and the third is, I believe, now one as well? Fairly sure god > floating frog when it comes to magic should be OK.
How do they compare to a Lord of Change, for a non-godly comparison?
Ok, now you need to remember....
The Seraphon TAUGHT the ancestors of Teclis, Morathi and Nagash magic. First Generation Slann (of which Kroak was one) were significantly more powerful than their Second Generation brethren (Maxdamundi) - and fluffwise, Mazdamundi literally caused the Sundering in the Old World. On his own. For the equivalent of moving some mountains slightly to the left.
The only reason, fluffwise, that Kroak was spell-locked was because he died basically solo-tanking an entire daemonic incursion - killing over a dozen Greater Daemons on his own.
There's a reason the article on Be'lakor today specifically mentions the Seraphon - they were the Old Ones specific antithesis to Chaos.
DarkStarSabre wrote: Ok. It's not Mazdamundi - but if they rework his Warscroll as mentioned and he is in fact a Wizard on the scale of 'Hahahaha, No Teclis, Stop It.' then all will be well.
Hate the fact that Seraphon are supposed to have the most adept wizards in existence and this is represented by.... +1 to cast or dispel while Nagash craps out 9+ spells a turn with +3 to both casting and dispelling, Teclis can straight up auto cast and even Morathi has bonuses to casting...
Two of those have been literal gods since they've had AOS stats, and the third is, I believe, now one as well? Fairly sure god > floating frog when it comes to magic should be OK.
How do they compare to a Lord of Change, for a non-godly comparison?
My impression was that Seraphon > Gods in terms of power, at least for the most ancient of Slaan. That the battlefields of the Old World were young to them and that the Realms are just one more battleground that they will fight against Chaos over.
Note that for all Sigmar's work the Seraphon did what he did only better and long before. In the original lore when the AoS realms were new all Seraphon were just created from magic, the minds of which were safe on huge ark ships. They didn't appear to suffer the issues that Stormcast do with mental instability problems and memory issues as a result of multiple reforgings.
So if anything I'd say the order of power is something like
Godbeasts seem to vary a lot in power, so they are a bit harder to pin down. Though at a push I'd slip them in somewhere between Mortal Realms Gods and Chaos Gods
Whilst that puts Greater Demons at the end, lets not forget that they are still supremely powerful and that there are many more of them than the other categories. They are also the primary force by which Chaos Gods act on the Realms, seeing as we've never had one made manifest in the realms before. That said Slaanesh's new baby/form/thing might well be a new tier creature of a higher level of power.
This is spot on.
Lorewise, Lizards trump the current Gods. They've never really been represented properly apart from their 7th ed. rules (in which they could shut off 6s, know entire lores of magic, be immune to non-magical attacks and cast with free bonus dice). You never read of Teclis literally moving continents and parting oceans, even at his strongest. Even 3rd and 4th gen Slann did that.
streetsamurai wrote: Hell of a model. Shame since it seems no other lizardmen are coming with it. That range needs a complete overhaul, bar the temple guard
No, the whole range does not need a complete overhaul.
Skinks, Saurus Warriors, Cold One Mounts, Salamanders/Razordons, Kroxigor, Slann and Chamleon skinks yes.
The dinos are fine.
We do NOT need another fething Terradon set. We've legit had Terradons in 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th ed Fantasy. New version every time!
Really? I can only picture the original classic metal, and then the ones in the dual kit which in my mind are the current ones?
And yes, Really.
5th ed was the 2 Rider Terradon.
6th ed was the heavily scaled 1 rider terradon.
7th ed was the Flying Kangaroo Terradon.
8th ed was the current plastic dual-kit.
Cronch wrote: oh no, ALL those options! Two bannerpoles and two shoulder pads, three skulls on chain and one champion head choice . Such wealth of options we'd be losing!
The kits are so old they were made before GW started adding lots of options to the sprues, you need to remember.
True. Would 45e/10 be bigger worry though? Also no start collecting
Cronch wrote: oh no, ALL those options! Two bannerpoles and two shoulder pads, three skulls on chain and one champion head choice . Such wealth of options we'd be losing!
The kits are so old they were made before GW started adding lots of options to the sprues, you need to remember.
True. Would 45e/10 be bigger worry though? Also no start collecting
Or, a new start collecting with some sort of strange middle ground mount option between a Cold One and a Carnosaur and new sculpts for the Cold Ones and Saurus.
Admittedly, the value of the initial start collecting is the real tease.
tneva82 wrote: They wouldn't release sc so soon. Note how bonereapers still waiting. No lumineth.
If they remove sc component no sc for a long time. and saurus will get price hike
At this point a price hike on the Saurus is a price I'm willing to pay to have most of our range non-finecast.
Slann, Salamanders, Razordons, Kroxigor and Chameleon Skinks are all still in Finecast. And to be honest, there's some easy fixes there.
Salamanders/Razordon made a natural dual-kit for options.
Mono-weapon Kroxigor really isn't new - their weapon loadout hasn't changed since 6th edition Fantasy and a plastic kit opens conversions up for things like Blood Bowl.
Slann is a natural character model choice - they did an Ogre Tyrant, they can do the Frog.
Chameleons - again, a price hike may be appreciated for 18 year old models if it means a vastly better sculpt and medium.
Yeah, it is still pretty soon for SC! (Granted they don't think to start making Combat Patrols for AoS too).
While not exactly news about models, guess where did I found this:
Imagine using ">" wrote:>Old Ones are back
>They were in the realms before everybody else
>Lord Kroak is the head of the Seraphon
>Be'lacuck champions Chaos Undivided as the one true way and has the True Names of many Greater Daemons and is the 2nd most powerful army in the realms outside of Archaon
tneva82 wrote: They wouldn't release sc so soon. Note how bonereapers still waiting. No lumineth.
If they remove sc component no sc for a long time. and saurus will get price hike
At this point a price hike on the Saurus is a price I'm willing to pay to have most of our range non-finecast.
Slann, Salamanders, Razordons, Kroxigor and Chameleon Skinks are all still in Finecast. And to be honest, there's some easy fixes there.
Salamanders/Razordon made a natural dual-kit for options.
Mono-weapon Kroxigor really isn't new - their weapon loadout hasn't changed since 6th edition Fantasy and a plastic kit opens conversions up for things like Blood Bowl.
Slann is a natural character model choice - they did an Ogre Tyrant, they can do the Frog.
Chameleons - again, a price hike may be appreciated for 18 year old models if it means a vastly better sculpt and medium.
Sallies/Razors and Slann: absolutely right.
Kroxies and Chamies: I was quite upset that we didn't got a plastic Kroxigor with the Underworlds warband, and we are still waiting for the Star Player for BB, but at least for the Chamies, as well for the rest of the Skinks, we already got a good tease on how would they look with the modern GW sculpts.
CMLR wrote: Yeah, it is still pretty soon for SC! (Granted they don't think to start making Combat Patrols for AoS too).
While not exactly news about models, guess where did I found this:
Imagine using ">" wrote:>Old Ones are back
>They were in the realms before everybody else
>Lord Kroak is the head of the Seraphon
>Be'lacuck champions Chaos Undivided as the one true way and has the True Names of many Greater Daemons and is the 2nd most powerful army in the realms outside of Archaon
Meh. That really wouldn't be 'news' though, would it?
What's that? The literal creator gods of the universe that was survived and happen to be present in the new universe? How surprising! /deadpan.
And Kroak, tbh was always going to be our 'figurehead' because he's the sole surviving Seraphon SC. Despite my dreams and hopes of Mazdamundi who was done dirty.
I mean, that amusing snippet really doesn't drop anything new or surprising when you think of it.
Cronch wrote: oh no, ALL those options! Two bannerpoles and two shoulder pads, three skulls on chain and one champion head choice . Such wealth of options we'd be losing!
The kits are so old they were made before GW started adding lots of options to the sprues, you need to remember.
True. Would 45e/10 be bigger worry though? Also no start collecting
Seeing as the current kit is so bad I wouldn't get it if you paid me to...it's hard to overstate how much I've come to hate the kit. It's old, it's ugly, and it actively repels me from buying back into an army I loved as a child.
Cronch wrote: oh no, ALL those options! Two bannerpoles and two shoulder pads, three skulls on chain and one champion head choice . Such wealth of options we'd be losing!
The kits are so old they were made before GW started adding lots of options to the sprues, you need to remember.
True. Would 45e/10 be bigger worry though? Also no start collecting
Seeing as the current kit is so bad I wouldn't get it if you paid me to...it's hard to overstate how much I've come to hate the kit. It's old, it's ugly, and it actively repels me from buying back into an army I loved as a child.
I'm in much the same boat. Saurus are the biggest problem in the Lizardmen range to me. I can deal with resin, it's not ideal, but I can deal with it, so the Kroxigor and whatnot don't bother me too much. The terrible Saurus warriors are so bad they actively keep me from restarting my Lizardmen army.
So I favour new Saurus above all else, and new Cold Ones after that. The rest of the range I don't really mind and can totally live with in their current incarnation.
I just hope for us classic WHFB fans they design new Saurus Warriors in a way that they can still fit on 25mm square bases.
Did we know there would be Fyreslayers in there?
At least I didn't and it also doesn't seem to be anything great, probably just good old we forgot about Fyreslayers so just throw them something without even getting a themed boxset
Don't think they will be in a later book as why should they have something small like this here then
The new miniature is absolutely wonderful. It’s exactly what you want from an upgrade. Still recognisable as the same character but a massive leap in composition and detail.
The timing and manner of the reveal of the new Kroak is interesting. You'd think he'd get as much hoopla as Belakor given he's a centerpiece and reimaging of a classic character. Maybe like a preview on one of those Saturday morning programs...
Perhaps some rumormonger had info that forced GW to reveal him earlier than planned. He's a powerful enough character to get his own book and now that it appears there's no rules for him in this Seraphon-included BR chapter, does it mean he gets his own book down the road? Or does this mean Seraphon are going to face off against another army in a battle box where Kroak is released in addition to such battle box?
Warhammer Community wrote:Warhammer Age of Sigmar fans rejoice! Every week this month, we’re showcasing a new miniature set to star in an upcoming Broken Realms book. What’s more, we’re kicking things off this week with a double-whammy – a father-and-daughter combo hailing from the witch-hunting Order of Azyr.
They told us on April 5th what they were planning on doing. It's basically a continuation of "Miniature Monday" that March had, just focused on AoS.
I assume the witch hunters will show up whenever the soul blight get a more in-depth broken realms spotlight. After all, we still have that big tease from book 1. Wonder what the lack of necroquake-ness will mean for them.
Also, are we going to see less endless spells? Some of them have had pretty cool models, others are hard passes.
Yeah, mummies only have bones showing through when they’ve been damaged. It always weirded me out that the Skinks put in charge of maintaining Lord Kroak’s mortal remains would let them get damaged to the point of his bones being exposed like on the old model.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Is it just me, or does Lord Kroak not look at all dead and Mummified?
He looks dessicated, which is what he should after being mummified. Someone just did him the grace of getting rid of the bandages.
He still has the bandages.
I wonder how many people has been relatively close to real mummies. I worked with animal mummies. They are not a bunch of bones wrapped on bandages; they are dehydrated organisms. Damaged mummies can show bones sticking out of the flesh, but that's not an universal ocurrance. The craniums can have empty eye sockets because of the composition of the eyes and teeth fall off because the dehydration of the gums.
Given that the lizardmen are now star beings, made of azyr light, I guess a more fleshy Kroak works. (Though Slann were the only lizardmen to remain fleshy, until the second battle tome iirc.)
It's not too late to grab his OG model though, for those that want a skeleton slann. Expensive conversion and he'll be smaller (and resin), but I'm sure someone will do it.
Honestly, the old model holds up really well. The dead skink and the lizard bones are really cool touches that are absent from the new one.
GaroRobe wrote: Also, are we going to see less endless spells? Some of them have had pretty cool models, others are hard passes.
Why should we? As I understand it, the Necroquake released them from containment, it didn't create them. Ending the Necroquake wouldn't suddenly re-imprison the Endless Spells.
GaroRobe wrote: Also, are we going to see less endless spells? Some of them have had pretty cool models, others are hard passes.
Why should we? As I understand it, the Necroquake released them from containment, it didn't create them. Ending the Necroquake wouldn't suddenly re-imprison the Endless Spells.
Endless spells are a result of the arcanum optinar, which was triggered by the Necroquake, which itself was like an earthquake with aftershocks rather than a state of being. Say an earthquake breaks a dam and subsequent earthquakes keep damaging it further. Stopping the quakes will make it so things aren't getting worse, but the dam is still broken and all the water that spilled out is still flooding everything.
Popsghostly wrote: The timing and manner of the reveal of the new Kroak is interesting. You'd think he'd get as much hoopla as Belakor given he's a centerpiece and reimaging of a classic character. Maybe like a preview on one of those Saturday morning programs...
Perhaps some rumormonger had info that forced GW to reveal him earlier than planned. He's a powerful enough character to get his own book and now that it appears there's no rules for him in this Seraphon-included BR chapter, does it mean he gets his own book down the road? Or does this mean Seraphon are going to face off against another army in a battle box where Kroak is released in addition to such battle box?
"While we can’t spill the beans about his role in the epic saga of the Broken Realms quite yet,"
They kind of points out he's part of BR releases.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Danny76 wrote: Depends how much is coming for each book release.
If Kroak is alongside Belakor then we aren’t quite to that book yet..
We know already Kroak isnt' part of Be'lakor book. It's BR:4 earliest.
Popsghostly wrote: The timing and manner of the reveal of the new Kroak is interesting. You'd think he'd get as much hoopla as Belakor given he's a centerpiece and reimaging of a classic character. Maybe like a preview on one of those Saturday morning programs...
Perhaps some rumormonger had info that forced GW to reveal him earlier than planned. He's a powerful enough character to get his own book and now that it appears there's no rules for him in this Seraphon-included BR chapter, does it mean he gets his own book down the road? Or does this mean Seraphon are going to face off against another army in a battle box where Kroak is released in addition to such battle box?
"While we can’t spill the beans about his role in the epic saga of the Broken Realms quite yet,"
They kind of points out he's part of BR releases.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Danny76 wrote: Depends how much is coming for each book release.
If Kroak is alongside Belakor then we aren’t quite to that book yet..
We know already Kroak isnt' part of Be'lakor book. It's BR:4 earliest.
GaroRobe wrote: Given that the lizardmen are now star beings, made of azyr light
Retconed. We organic again (except Kroak, who is just whatever he wants).
Why then there's these "star borne" and "coalesced"?
Coalesced are the fleshy ones. Star borne's are still basically good daemons.
Originally, when killed, Seraphon exploded into a burst of light that harmed Chaos Daemons. Nowadays they are yet again organic beings, stablished since a short story in Malign Portents. Starborne are magic focused, Coalesced aren't. Starborne are practically waiting in high orbit. Coalesced have stablished colonies on the ground.
Doomseekers are zealous warriors who will stop at nothing to slay their chosen mark in combat, or die trying. It would seem they’ve been putting in some time at those trendy axe-throwing pubs since the previous Fyreslayers battletome, and it shows!
On top of that, they’re even more dedicated to taking down their quarry. Take a look at their improved Oathbound ability.
Not to be outdone, Grimwrath Berzerkers get the same boost to their fyresteel throwing axes. They’ve also learned some new tricks in the form of a set of Grimwrath Oaths. You can choose which one you want to use for the duration of your game, adding loads of tactical depth. Here are three of the six to give you an idea.
Not sure about that Dark Master ability. I mean, if they aren’t doing anything, they definitely aren’t dancing…
Unless that’s why they can’t do anything else, because he’s commanded/tricked them into doing a little jig instead of what they were supposed to be doing?
Mr_Rose wrote: Not sure about that Dark Master ability. I mean, if they aren’t doing anything, they definitely aren’t dancing…
Unless that’s why they can’t do anything else, because he’s commanded/tricked them into doing a little jig instead of what they were supposed to be doing?
It's same as before except affects more things, target not predetermned and killing be'lakor stops using later. Barring last its more powerful version of already powerful rule.
More than 33% damage increase at full strength, more damage at 7 wounds, infinite more damage more wound(as old one would be dead already) and almost twice durability. Over 50% point hike btj he was too cheap before.
lare2 wrote: Very underwhelmed by the NH stuff so far. Hey ho, time will tell.
Yeah, I think we simply don't have all the pieces we'd need to see how much of a buff it is. 5+ deathless is nice, but seems to require a ranged attack dealing damage so unless that attack is reliable the ability would be lackluster. The changes to harridans don't fix their core issue in just being a bunch of low-rend attacks that chainrasps or reapers can provide more efficiently.
Actually the base contact point doesn't look too bad on these. The sash coming down has a fairly good amount of contact on both sides and they are angled outward as well so its not just a straight flush line that would snap. Honestly a nice way to do a flying model.
Probably similar to normal keeper cape which trails a decent amount, you could probably fill out the underside of it with greenstuff if you want stronger contact point.
I actually think making the wings look like stretched flesh, like the Diablo trailer with Lilith would be cool. Hopefully head options can be magnatised so I can run them as either without needing to buy two. Can anyone work out their size + base size next to a keeper, I think they will cover as much area but might be shorter than one just body wise.
Now those deserved to be named "Children of Slaanesh".
They're pure demons of the Dark Prince, everything in them is perfect.
Witch hunters are nice and all, but these twins ? Totally worth setting up Morathi's story leading to their birth.
Looks like Broken Realms : Kragnos will be quite epic !
Danny76 wrote: All these big models are wonderful (and unwieldy), but those Witch Hunters show that it’s not always a massive model needed to be cool and popular.
Don't be so jealous they're stealing the scene. Their daddy is Slaanesh, after all.
Besides, they're not actually that big if you look closely at the pictures. They just have magnificient peacock cloaks...oh the greatness ! The exquisite !
Overread wrote: Actually the base contact point doesn't look too bad on these. The sash coming down has a fairly good amount of contact on both sides and they are angled outward as well so its not just a straight flush line that would snap. Honestly a nice way to do a flying model.
Like with Kroak, it's nice to see them doing ways to avoid using the curved flight stands.
I wonder if some of the Broken Realms books will get more than one army/character released. We still have Kragnos, Kroak, the Witchhunters, the Newborn Twins, and there are still more characters teased to appear.
Like Be'lakor heavily teases the appearance of
Spoiler:
Grombrindal, the white dwarf
who has appeared in some Gotrek and other stories set in AOS, but never got an official model. (Yes, there was a model, but that doesn't count.)
Well, the text with the latest article does indicate that's the case:
"Just what plans do these powerful scions of Slaanesh have in store for the Mortal Realms? You’ll need to read Broken Realms: Kragnos to find out where they interweave with the Seraphon’s venerable Lord Kroak and a certain family of witch hunters."
Sarouan wrote: Now those deserved to be named "Children of Slaanesh".
They're pure demons of the Dark Prince, everything in them is perfect.
Witch hunters are nice and all, but these twins ? Totally worth setting up Morathi's story leading to their birth.
Looks like Broken Realms : Kragnos will be quite epic !
Danny76 wrote: All these big models are wonderful (and unwieldy), but those Witch Hunters show that it’s not always a massive model needed to be cool and popular.
Don't be so jealous they're stealing the scene. Their daddy is Slaanesh, after all.
Besides, they're not actually that big if you look closely at the pictures. They just have magnificient peacock cloaks...oh the greatness ! The exquisite !
Not these specifically, though mass wise they’ve got a bit to them with those cloaks and wings.
But like that line up of big models someone did showing size.
All look great but imagine having all of them. Where would they go!?
Witch Huntrs, well I’ll popthem in a drawer, the wife will never know! (Not that she really goes in my study, but ya know, for effect..)
Speaking of the size line up someone's done another, assuming they've got the base size right (105x70 oval) they are the same overall size as a Keeper but the body is about half the size.
They are on either the 120 by 92 or the 170 by 105mm oval based on the viseo, so they may be slightly smaller than the keeper in body size but overall quite large, basing this entirely on the skull on the base of one of them mind you.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I encourage you or anyone to read the fluff in the new battletome, which explains things out fully. What you have there is not quite accurate.
No need to. I own both BT and I have already readed them. I remember that in the first one an Oldblood bursted into an explosion of dust of light fighting a Nighthaunt. I remember that in the Bonesplitterz BT they got mad that they couldn't bind dino souls into their weapons because they also exploded into a burst of light. Now daemons can tear them apart and bath in their blood.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Sure is cool to have a new Hedonites of Slaanesh book come out only to have new Slaaneshi units added in after the fact.
Yeah. That's been my only reaction thus far. Just a at the DLC push.
Not even GW is convinced by the codex/army book release model anymore.
Judging by the amount of people defending the Lumineth-less-than-half-a-year-old battletome release and how well the Marine 'dexes sell, I can't blame them. Removed
H.B.M.C. wrote: Sure is cool to have a new Hedonites of Slaanesh book come out only to have new Slaaneshi units added in after the fact.
Part of me is thinking the release schedule has been screwed up because of the past year. I suspect the Hedonites book was probably intended for last year and these new units would have been intended for this year.
Hell, we already know Cursed City was intended for November last year but ended up delayed til March.
Dates printed on sprues don't mean much. They design minis quite a while in advance. In fact, getting models in the first quarter of a year that have the date from the previous year should be expected.
If the sprues said Copyright Games Workshop 2019 then maybe that'd be a big deal.
DarkStarSabre wrote: Hell, we already know Cursed City was intended for November last year but ended up delayed til March.
Where's that from?
Possibly intended for then.
It’s to do with the date printed on the sprues or book or something.
Not an ironclad reason imho.
It's rules referring to november 2020 as month it's latest valid value. Ie points released after november are newer than what's in cc and thus overrides cc values
H.B.M.C. wrote: Sure is cool to have a new Hedonites of Slaanesh book come out only to have new Slaaneshi units added in after the fact.
Part of me is thinking the release schedule has been screwed up because of the past year. I suspect the Hedonites book was probably intended for last year and these new units would have been intended for this year.
Hell, we already know Cursed City was intended for November last year but ended up delayed til March.
It's still less than half a year between the releases probably. Meaning your battletome is now out of date 6 months after purchase. At least the LRL lasted a year before the battletome became outdated... Removed
2 extra models won't invalidate rest of the book you know? You DO know warscrolls are available for free?
You don't even have to buy new lumineth book if you have old. Unless you are silly enough to think you have to. At which point blame is on you.
Gw couldn't even release new book for everything every 6 months and would cut to their profits. These released later than slaanesh book precisely to spread releases so they don't eat each other sales dropping boxes they sell
tneva82 wrote: 2 extra models won't invalidate rest of the book you know? You DO know warscrolls are available for free?
You don't even have to buy new lumineth book if you have old. Unless you are silly enough to think you have to. At which point blame is on you.
Gw couldn't even release new book for everything every 6 months and would cut to their profits. These released later than slaanesh book precisely to spread releases so they don't eat each other sales dropping boxes they sell
Or y'know, they could've just included these two in the Slaaneesh Battletome, since it just came out, y'know?
tneva82 wrote: 2 extra models won't invalidate rest of the book you know? You DO know warscrolls are available for free?
You don't even have to buy new lumineth book if you have old. Unless you are silly enough to think you have to. At which point blame is on you.
Gw couldn't even release new book for everything every 6 months and would cut to their profits. These released later than slaanesh book precisely to spread releases so they don't eat each other sales dropping boxes they sell
1) So now I have two random printout pages stuffed into my 6-months old battletome, feels so good. Let's hope broken realms: Kronk don't include any battalions that use these two, cause those are not released online for free.
Which neatly brings us to point 2)
I either have to buy the new LRL tome 1.0 (as opposed to the beta version from last year) or the broken realms Teclis to get access to the updated allegiance abilities, spell lists and artifact and battalions. Without spending extra money, my 12-months old book is 1/2 of a book now.
But hey ,it's just my hard-earned money, why do I even complain, right?
tneva82 wrote: 2 extra models won't invalidate rest of the book you know? You DO know warscrolls are available for free?
You don't even have to buy new lumineth book if you have old. Unless you are silly enough to think you have to. At which point blame is on you.
Gw couldn't even release new book for everything every 6 months and would cut to their profits. These released later than slaanesh book precisely to spread releases so they don't eat each other sales dropping boxes they sell
Or y'know, they could've just included these two in the Slaaneesh Battletome, since it just came out, y'know?
+
Blame Chapterhouse situations
GW basically doesn't want to put models into their Battletomes/Codex which don't have models on the shelf at the time the book goes out - or only weeks later. Considering that the Slaanesh book was likely a release for 2020 and the Belakor book is likely closer to its original date in 2021, that's quite a long period of time. Enough for 3rd parties to muscle in and make their own versions and get them to market.
That's why GW adopted the "no model no rules" type approach which has both good and bad points
On the bad points it means we get situations like this; anything added after the book is released is an extra which adds to paperwork. At the same time we know that leaving long dry spells (years) between book updates, and thus model updates, can lead to armies and players becoming less popular. So drip feeding new models into armies (just like this) is something that is, in general, a positive thing
On the good points as well we get the fact that it stops GW adding models that never get made. Tyranids, for example, had several Codex where new monsters were present but which never got a model through that whole edition - and through the next edition. This creates models that have a viable place in the army, but which aren't produced and sold by GW.
This forces people to either convert, counts-as or buy 3rd party. For those playing at a GW store the latter option is out and the former two might be things they don't want to do or don't have the skill to do in terms of converting. Thus you could create a situation where some players (esp newer ones) are being locked out of certain models and army builds.
In the end I think GW has taken the generally right path and the only way to further improve would be to adopt the old Warmachine approach of putting "rules in the box" in terms of GW shipping new models with warscroll cards in the box. Which would be something that they could look toward doing now, they already ship with rules on a sheet of paper with build instructions and all; adding a warscroll card to each box could be something they are considering in the future.
I do. Constantly. This single event has made GW worse, and we all suffer for it.
But I don't believe for a second that this model wasn't ready when the rest of them were made. Minis take quite a while to make, so the idea that they couldn't've included/released these at the same time doesn't strike me as true.
I do. Constantly. This single event has made GW worse, and we all suffer for it.
But I don't believe for a second that this model wasn't ready when the rest of them were made. Minis take quite a while to make, so the idea that they couldn't've included/released these at the same time doesn't strike me as true.
Agreed. GWs reaction to Chapterhouse has been and remains both absurd and detrimental for all parties involved.
I may be reading too much into this, but that art has a very complete depiction of what are clearly Marauders. AoS has usually used bloodreavers to fill the role of light Chaos infantry in art up until this point, maybe an indicated that a new Marauder kit is on the horizon?
I do. Constantly. This single event has made GW worse, and we all suffer for it.
But I don't believe for a second that this model wasn't ready when the rest of them were made. Minis take quite a while to make, so the idea that they couldn't've included/released these at the same time doesn't strike me as true.
They could have.
How many players can afford to buy these as well as first releases? You would have releases competing each other in the critical months that sees sales kit will get.
Gw trickling releases rather than releasing all at once is time honoured tradition that started way before chapter house case.
I think it is silly to blame Chapterhouse for GW's anti fan behavior.
GW could instantly put bits sellers out of business of they doubled the size of in game units and started pricing HIPS plastic sprues like the low marginal cost product they are. Instead we live in a world where small operation resin garage shops can produce products that compete with GW HIPS plastic kits on price.
In my opinion it is pants on head silly. GW could CRUSH their competitors by flooding the market with low cost high quality miniatures for everything under the sun, but instead they've decided to go boutique with limited print runs and unit prices that have created an entire garage resin industry for recasting and alternative bits.
They are quite literally playing to the weakness of their chosen material.
GW could have easily put the profiles in the latest Slaanesh book, but instead they will keep treating fans like the plastic simps they think we are.
Gallahad wrote: I think it is silly to blame Chapterhouse for GW's anti fan behavior.
GW could instantly put bits sellers out of business of they doubled the size of in game units and started pricing HIPS plastic sprues like the low marginal cost product they are. Instead we live in a world where small operation resin garage shops can produce products that compete with GW HIPS plastic kits on price.
In my opinion it is pants on head silly. GW could CRUSH their competitors by flooding the market with low cost high quality miniatures for everything under the sun, but instead they've decided to go boutique with limited print runs and unit prices that have created an entire garage resin industry for recasting and alternative bits.
They are quite literally playing to the weakness of their chosen material.
GW could have easily put the profiles in the latest Slaanesh book, but instead they will keep treating fans like the plastic simps they think we are.
Just one tiny little issue with your idea.
Gw can't keep up with demand as is.
If gw halves prices they need more than double sales or lose money. As they can't keep up wlth demand as is all that would happen is halving income.
Supply and demand. Demand is greater than supply, what happens? Whole western economical system is built on this concept
Gallahad wrote: I think it is silly to blame Chapterhouse for GW's anti fan behavior.
GW could instantly put bits sellers out of business of they doubled the size of in game units and started pricing HIPS plastic sprues like the low marginal cost product they are. Instead we live in a world where small operation resin garage shops can produce products that compete with GW HIPS plastic kits on price.
In my opinion it is pants on head silly. GW could CRUSH their competitors by flooding the market with low cost high quality miniatures for everything under the sun, but instead they've decided to go boutique with limited print runs and unit prices that have created an entire garage resin industry for recasting and alternative bits.
They are quite literally playing to the weakness of their chosen material.
GW could have easily put the profiles in the latest Slaanesh book, but instead they will keep treating fans like the plastic simps they think we are.
Just one tiny little issue with your idea.
Gw can't keep up with demand as is.
If gw halves prices they need more than double sales or lose money. As they can't keep up wlth demand as is all that would happen is halving income.
Supply and demand. Demand is greater than supply, what happens? Whole western economical system is built on this concept
CNC milling machines are not some sort of dark voodoo tech. GW could easily expand their ability to produce more models.
They could even have outside shops run the molds if they didn't want to make the capital expenditure.
The more molds they run the cheaper each run gets as your fixed costs get spread out over more product. They wouldn't have to double sales if they halved prices.
Think about it this way, keep every box the exact same cost, but double the sprues inside. They make the exact same revenue per sale, but the decline in profits from having to stuff more sprues in the box isn't 50%. It would cost them another dollar or two per box to double the sprues.
Gallahad wrote: I think it is silly to blame Chapterhouse for GW's anti fan behavior.
GW could instantly put bits sellers out of business of they doubled the size of in game units and started pricing HIPS plastic sprues like the low marginal cost product they are. Instead we live in a world where small operation resin garage shops can produce products that compete with GW HIPS plastic kits on price.
In my opinion it is pants on head silly. GW could CRUSH their competitors by flooding the market with low cost high quality miniatures for everything under the sun, but instead they've decided to go boutique with limited print runs and unit prices that have created an entire garage resin industry for recasting and alternative bits.
They are quite literally playing to the weakness of their chosen material.
GW could have easily put the profiles in the latest Slaanesh book, but instead they will keep treating fans like the plastic simps they think we are.
Just one tiny little issue with your idea.
Gw can't keep up with demand as is.
If gw halves prices they need more than double sales or lose money. As they can't keep up wlth demand as is all that would happen is halving income.
Supply and demand. Demand is greater than supply, what happens? Whole western economical system is built on this concept
But things like Wargames Atlantic can pretty easily sell stuff at half the GW's prize?
But things like Wargames Atlantic can pretty easily sell stuff at half the GW's prize?
this is not the point
if GW sells 10.000 boxes for 250€ with a margin of 200€ they earn 2.000.000
if they sell 10.000 boxes for 125€ they earn 750.000 and to make the same profit they would need to sell 26.667 boxes
yet if the only can produce 10.000 there is no chance to make the same profit by selling at half the price
as long as GW sells all of their copies for a high price there is no need to cut the price unless you can make and sell 3 times as many for half the price
Wargames Atlantic on the other hand has different competition, they are going into the historical themed market were models are <1€, if you make WW1 Germans for the price of GW models you won't sell anything
CNC milling machines are not some sort of dark voodoo tech. GW could easily expand their ability to produce more models.
They could even have outside shops run the molds if they didn't want to make the capital expenditure.
The more molds they run the cheaper each run gets as your fixed costs get spread out over more product. They wouldn't have to double sales if they halved prices.
Think about it this way, keep every box the exact same cost, but double the sprues inside. They make the exact same revenue per sale, but the decline in profits from having to stuff more sprues in the box isn't 50%. It would cost them another dollar or two per box to double the sprues.
Outsourcing production brings its own headaches and problems because now you've got to manage multiple factories and production sites and aim to keep each one producing to the same high standard, same tolerances and such. This can be a problem in terms of skilled labour as whilst basic operation of the machine and packing is low skill; maintenance, upkeep and management of the machine and parts is all niche high end skills. We've already had posts (either in this thread or another) which noted that GW couldn't easily run a second factory in the USA and in the end it cost them more than simply shipping more stock from a central production facility. The only reason that isn't working great right now is the global pandemic coupled with a surge in sales.
Gallahad wrote: I think it is silly to blame Chapterhouse for GW's anti fan behavior.
GW could instantly put bits sellers out of business of they doubled the size of in game units and started pricing HIPS plastic sprues like the low marginal cost product they are. Instead we live in a world where small operation resin garage shops can produce products that compete with GW HIPS plastic kits on price.
In my opinion it is pants on head silly. GW could CRUSH their competitors by flooding the market with low cost high quality miniatures for everything under the sun, but instead they've decided to go boutique with limited print runs and unit prices that have created an entire garage resin industry for recasting and alternative bits.
They are quite literally playing to the weakness of their chosen material.
GW could have easily put the profiles in the latest Slaanesh book, but instead they will keep treating fans like the plastic simps they think we are.
Just one tiny little issue with your idea.
Gw can't keep up with demand as is.
If gw halves prices they need more than double sales or lose money. As they can't keep up wlth demand as is all that would happen is halving income.
Supply and demand. Demand is greater than supply, what happens? Whole western economical system is built on this concept
But things like Wargames Atlantic can pretty easily sell stuff at half the GW's prize?
The point isn't that GW couldn't profit, the point is that GW right now can't meet demand. We keep saying that GW could charge less/put more in the box but at the same time with the content GW has in the box and the price point they have set, GW cannot keep up with demand. They can't actually produce and ship and sell the stuff as fast as customers are buying it. GW has no pressure nor reason to randomly lower their sales on things like troops by 50% by doubling the contents/lowering the price. There's no market pressure acting upon them to lower prices at this stage.
Another thing to consider is that GW as a firm doesn't do loans for expansion. Thus they likely want to retain a good profit per sale because in the end any expansion and growth of their business has to 100% come from the profits. I think this has made them price higher than many others, but with their market dominance they've been able to do this. Heck their UK prices are honestly not far off many of the competition, yet its overseas where price conversions come in that the disparity really shows. At the same time GW has ploughed much of their money back into their own firm and thus the wargaming industry. Running stores; new factory; artwork; books; lore; new products; new technologies; high skill staff etc...
I'd love more in the box; I'd love to see GW settle prices for a few years; I'd love to pay less for the same.
At the same time I can't see a justifiable business reason for GW to lower prices. Settle them yes and I do think getting to £40+ for 5 cavalry is getting high.
As a business though I can see that GW has done it right in terms of sales; they are profiting; they are the giant in the market; they have resources to expand their operation without taking out loans.
But things like Wargames Atlantic can pretty easily sell stuff at half the GW's prize?
And how many sprues you sell?
If GW sells 10,000,000 sprue and can produce 10,200,000 sprues a year they can't sell double the sprues by halving the price.
If WA sells 100,000 sprues and have capacity to produce 250,000 sprues a year they can halve the price hoping to more than double the sales.
But sure. Show WA produces and sells more than twice as many sprues as GW if you can. Pretty sure GW sells more sprues though. And their production can't keep up as is. They have constantly items dropping out out of stock for months in case you have been living under the rock for years.
It's easy to say "halve the price, triple the sales"(if you say halve the price, double the sales you would make very bad CEO. You are dropping profits of your company with that strategy) but you can only triple the sales IF YOU CAN PRODUCE TRIPLE THE SPRUES!
Now GW could of course work to improve production capability but opening up new factories isn't a) quick b) cheap c) adds up fixed expenses which adds risks to future. What if you can't keep up with triple the sales in few years? You will end up excess machinery...How much sprues market will in the end get? Do you think you will realistically end up owning 1000 models? 10000? 10000000? How many players GW can realistically end up getting? Would trippling model sales result in some years boom and then trickle down as people already have all the models they need?
Time to get back to the news and rumours for AOS now, if you wish to continue a discussion about production limitations at GW, economic theory or the state of Nottingham's infrastructure then please do so in a separate thread.
Thanks.
Ok guys, i discovered something exciting. There seems to be new models hidden in the twins trailer, they seem to be new Daemonettes of some kind (maybe is only the herald, but they seem to be multiple models so maybe is a new kit for Daemonettes or a new type of Daemonette). The process of discovering this was a little complex, so i will try to explain.
It all started when I noticed two small shadowy figures at the end of the Twins trailer when it say "Embrace Excess", then I started researching about one of them that seems to be holding a staff. I looked at all the old banners and icons trying to find a match, but it looked completely new to me. At the moment I was going to write about this I noticed the supposed staff seems unattached to the current model, so I tought it may be simply a torch-like field decoration. Still it was weird to put two random models to decorate that part of the video.
I was looking then at the beggining to make sure the last two shadows were not simply reused drawings from the beggining that depict some Daemonettes at the feet of the Twins, and I discovered something amazing. That staff is actually depicted in the drawing, being wield by a special Daemonette with four arms. But the shadow at the end is much more solid-like akin to a sculpt. That basically confirm that this model exist both in conceptual art and physical form. And since at the end you can see multiple shadows, it more or less confirm that both ar new models. The shadows are a little confusing, so it may be two models in a single base similar to Enrapturess and Epitome. We wil see.
Yep there’s daemonettes with full (blank) face masks/helmets shown in the art and the silhouette at the end looks like the same banner in a different position.
The blank faces are definitely an art style thing, and I'm not seeing the second miniature, but yeah, there's definitely a four-armed daemonette with shoulder armour and an icon.
I don't think it's a model in the video, because it's identical to the illustration, but in a different frame of the flat animation they use in these videos, but the sculpt must exist if they intend to drop it at the same time as the Newborn in a few months.
I’ve no problem with the current aesthetic of the Daemonettes, but wouldn’t mind seeing more athletic poses for the models, now they don’t need to rank up.
I'd assume it's a plastic Herald to finally complete Hedonites as an all-plastic range. After that, GW can go back to ignoring Slaanesh on the Fantasy side again for a while before finally doing something about those awful Seekers.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I’ve no problem with the current aesthetic of the Daemonettes, but wouldn’t mind seeing more athletic poses for the models, now they don’t need to rank up.
I fear all of them will be leaping off boulders or twigs, only connected by the very tip of their claws to the ground.
A bit more motion would be a start. I still think it's insulting that GW did jumping leaping bouncing Witch Elves on 20mm bases but couldn't figure out half decent poses for Daemonettes that had the larger 25mm bases at their disposal when daemon sculpts were constrained by having to fit into Fantasy regimental formation.
With all the love GW has for drawing inspiration from Rogue Trader and 2nd ed these days, Daemonettes had pretty cool faces in Slaves to Darkness that the plastic models certainly didn't get.
They could use better proportions. The ginormous feet don't fit well with the rest of the body in my opinion. Worked for 2nd ed Daemonettes with their chunkier build and heavy claws. For the lean clawed plastic models, not so much.
Better integration of the tail (as well as perhaps rethinking the length a little) wouldn't go amiss.
Right breast singing the sweet song of freedom while we're at it. A case of GW not reading their own background again. Not that that's going to happen now they doubled down on getting the sides wrong with the mortal Hedonites.
So yeah, better design, please. Consider the current models a first draft to build on.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I’ve no problem with the current aesthetic of the Daemonettes, but wouldn’t mind seeing more athletic poses for the models, now they don’t need to rank up.
I fear all of them will be leaping off boulders or twigs, only connected by the very tip of their claws to the ground.
Naturally they will all be leaping off exotic masonry. Remember that true professionals only bring fittingly themed tactical rocks.
If this one prove to be a model, we can only assume the other similar designs in the drawing are models too. Even one that can only be seen in the thumbnail and seem to be armed with the same staff, but using it as an spear.
I'd be amazed if they did new deamonettes. Pleased, but amazed.
I think its just some artistic licence at likely simplifying the design and artwork for something that is basically a minor element in the drawing whilst the twins are the key focus. GW has often had little bits like that in artwork that are simply there and varied and not part of a future model.
I'm actually surprised that after 2 big range updates and battletomes and now a hinted further update; that the Herald hasn't (as far as we know so far) got a new model. You'd have thought getting out the finecast would be a must for GW right now and the Herald is the one last finecast model in the entire range; its the one thorn left in Slaanesh.
It's the one "must update" left in the range.
Deamonettes, hellstriders, seekers and chariots would be nice to update to more dynamic poses and such, but they aren't essential things to update and work well as kits right now. They can certainly stand a good few more years on the market without any bother.
Overread wrote: I'm actually surprised that after 2 big range updates and battletomes and now a hinted further update; that the Herald hasn't (as far as we know so far) got a new model. You'd have thought getting out the finecast would be a must for GW right now and the Herald is the one last finecast model in the entire range; its the one thorn left in Slaanesh.
It's the one "must update" left in the range.
Deamonettes, hellstriders, seekers and chariots would be nice to update to more dynamic poses and such, but they aren't essential things to update and work well as kits right now. They can certainly stand a good few more years on the market without any bother.
I reckon the herald will show up when Fulgrim does!
Perhaps - honestly I'm excited by the prospect that right now Slaanesh is basically in a position where almost anything they are likely to add now is going to be a new thing for them. I'd love to see some more demons and winged monsters added to the range in time.
I'd also like to see some 40K models. Chariots always look wrong in 40K to me from Slaanesh, even an upgrade kit with some guns or something abit more sci-fi just to get them something to blend with the setting. Granted 40K doesn't (yet?) have mono-god armies as a standard for Chaos Demons so its somewhat masked with the other demon forces unless you're building a niche list.
Overread wrote: I'd be amazed if they did new deamonettes. Pleased, but amazed.
I think its just some artistic licence at likely simplifying the design and artwork for something that is basically a minor element in the drawing whilst the twins are the key focus. GW has often had little bits like that in artwork that are simply there and varied and not part of a future model.
Normally I'd lean towards artistic license, but this is GW. They literally just put a piece of art in White Dwarf that has a "Chaos Warrior but with 40K Terminator Sorcerer head" featuring pretty prominently in it. They're generally pretty meticulous about models being clearly identifiable and matching models in AoS art.
Overread wrote: I'm actually surprised that after 2 big range updates and battletomes and now a hinted further update; that the Herald hasn't (as far as we know so far) got a new model. You'd have thought getting out the finecast would be a must for GW right now and the Herald is the one last finecast model in the entire range; its the one thorn left in Slaanesh.
It's the one "must update" left in the range.
Eh. Like a couple other models (transcendent c'tan comes to mind) its buildable out of other kits- specifically the chariots. Sometimes GW feels that's 'good enough.'
Khorne herald on Jugger could use a kit, too. There's a resin one, or you can kitbash it out of the throne herald and a jugger, buts its one of the few non-special characters not in plastic (the tzeentch herald off or on disc is easily built out of other things)
I want to bet on a Sylvaneth with a giante scythe on the back with owls perching on top of it. I'd be extremely surprised if this turns out to be a shadow elf.
I want to bet on a Sylvaneth with a giante scythe on the back with owls perching on top of it. I'd be extremely surprised if this turns out to be a shadow elf.
The back are insects hatching, as clearly shown in a rumor engine that match the silhouette 100%. They may be sylvaneth insect spirits tho.
I want to bet on a Sylvaneth with a giante scythe on the back with owls perching on top of it. I'd be extremely surprised if this turns out to be a shadow elf.
Those are eggs on top with those beetle things.
Owls are more Lumineth I guess anyway.
It looks like a big musical horn or something, there’s a sword in scabbard on the waist/back there.
And vines etc around the base.
Dark Harvest by Josh Reynolds touches on a... dormant god that's got a lot of Orion's aspects. It wasn't clear that the entity was actually Orion or that he'd really 'wake up' all the way.
It was also all the 'worst' aspects of Orion, almost a wood elf/tree spirit version of Khaine (lots of Wild Hunt stuff tying back to Orion)
Unless Reynolds touched on something else? We have Kurnoth, the god that Orion was the Avatar for. Weirdly though Isha became Alarielle rather than Kurnoth becoming Orion.
The AoS stories have a lot of potential seeds in them for returning or appearing Old World things. Sometimes they are only hinted at and whilst we can connect the dots they do not guarantee things.
We have enough aelves called "kurnothi" to know that Kurnoth is still somewhere in some form in AoS.
Wouldn't be surprised if Alarielle's "secret stuff" she's hinting while she's talking with Teclis in Broken Realm: Teclis involves him, in the end.
After all, the renewal of life is pretty much simular to the cycles of death and rebirth Orion had to pass by in the Old World every year. Maybe with death being pushed back, he can be brought fully to life permanently or something.
Still don't think that miniature is Kurnoth at all. Sylvaneth looks very likely...but then...insects and all, that's also the stuff of Nurgle, isn't that ?
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Aerial and Alarielle kind of ish merged into Alarielle as we know her now. I’d need to read the relevant book again to be sure though.
It's Ariel but otherwise that's what happened in End Times : Khaine.
Well, sort of...actually Lileath poisoned Ariel so that she's forced to give her divine essence to Alarielle and effectively help "ending the cycle" of the elven gods' tragedy. Technically, Ariel/Isha died...she just gave her power to Alarielle, in the end. That's why Orion longed so much for death in the battles following the return of Alarielle to Ulthuan with the wood elves : he couldn't keep living without his beloved, since Alarielle isn't her.
Lileath is really like Tzeentch in End Times, manipulating everyone.
Sarouan wrote: Yet she didn't tell him all the details and he was still manipulated by her in the end.
Yes, she wasn't entirely truthful about the stuff regarding the Sanctuary, but once it was destroyed and she DID tell him, he wasn't exactly surprised. He also wasn't so much manipulated as motivated by his love for her and sharing her goal of saving as many Elves as possible.
I believe it was more the fact she created an entire country of zealous warriors who love her just as a buffer to protect the Wood elves! That and the fact that she is effectively having romantic relationships with both Araloth and Louen Leoncour whilst blatantly friend zoning Teclis at the same time! What a woman
In the upheaval caused by the events of the Broken Realms saga, Alarielle has been hard at work scouring Ghyran, the Realm of Life, from the taint of Chaos. When the Everqueen sings a song of cleansing at the Oak of Ages Past, something entirely new springs from the roots.
Floating on thermals of sheer magic, Warsong Revenants play a Spirit Song which has the power to cause the land itself to come alive. Their music is a balm to the Sylvaneth and the promise of vengeance to their enemies. The Warsong Revenants can even summon a malicious swarm of spites to attack nearby enemies.
This elegant model is covered in details that will delight painters of every skill level, including a variety of textures like wood, leaves, skin, and finely-wrought metal to experiment with.
We can’t tell you everything about the Warsong Revenant just yet, but it’s a fair bet that you’ll want some Sylvaneth to be within earshot of their magical melody. If you’re not yet growing an army of them, the Start Collecting! Sylvaneth box is a great place to begin.
Very nice!! But come on GW, make this a proper second wave for Sylvaneth eventually, there's at least half a dozen more unit types for Sylvaneth/Kurnothi teased via Underworlds/WHQ by now :|
MobileSuitRandom wrote: Very nice!! But come on GW, make this a proper second wave for Sylvaneth eventually, there's at least half a dozen more unit types for Sylvaneth/Kurnothi teased via Underworlds/WHQ by now :|
100% this! Just make sure its all in the same book. Even though Sylvaneth has a lot of units already, I'd rather them get Kurnothi rolled into the same book than have to get a second army in order to enjoy proper Wood Elves.
MobileSuitRandom wrote: Very nice!! But come on GW, make this a proper second wave for Sylvaneth eventually, there's at least half a dozen more unit types for Sylvaneth/Kurnothi teased via Underworlds/WHQ by now :|
100% this! Just make sure its all in the same book. Even though Sylvaneth has a lot of units already, I'd rather them get Kurnothi rolled into the same book than have to get a second army in order to enjoy proper Wood Elves.
Third* army.
Dryads and that stuff weren't "proper Wood Elves". There was a whole Forest Spirit sublist(Dryads, Treekin, Treelords, Drycha) that one could field without a single elf. And that's not even mentioning that some things(Orion and his Hunting Hounds plus his equerries, the Wild Riders) were just flatout Forest Spirits. The Kurnothi, from what we've seen so far, seem to be closer in form and function to Orion and his Wild Riders: they're Forest Spirits rather than mortals like the Wanderers.
I'm 100% fine with Kurnothi getting their own army. In fact, I'd rather that be the case as it would actually encourage play for the army rather than just "Look, new units!". Not like AoS doesn't currently have ways for people to combine things easily into different army lists anyways.
Sadly though, it's more likely than not just gonna be the lazy route of "Look, new units!" for Sylvaneth while Wanderers get another unit gutted from their list. But hey...maybe Wild Rider shields will finally mean something again!
Kanluwen wrote: The Kurnothi, from what we've seen so far, seem to be closer in form and function to Orion and his Wild Riders: they're Forest Spirits rather than mortals like the Wanderers.
Still wondering what's happening here after Qulathis appeared in WHQ. She's obviously Kurnothi but also obviously different from the beast aelfs from the Beastgrave set, with different special rules/equipment. The WHQ booklet just introduces her as "Kurnothi being a strange kind of aelf whose secrets are only known to the Sylvaneth" (my translation from German) ... the big question is if GW are actually in on those secrets, or just trying out random stuff in their side games ^^
GW can just feth of with this crap. idoneth, Lumineth, new sylvaneth.....all have amazing creative license with the aeldari design, and then we have 40K Eldar....c'mon man!!
Seriously, love the aesthetic of AOS elves, just hoping they'll splash some of that talent to 40K.
Now that's a nice floaty figure; not overly busy with all kinds of random bits either. Visually, I think I'd prefer it if the insect eggs were just flowers, in the process of unfolding and blooming, but that might be worth converting. (And I'd prefer some normal Elven legs, but that can be hidden by just closing the skirt.
Might pick him up for a little display piece if the price isn't too horrifying. Could proxy as a Spellweaver on Eagle or something.
MobileSuitRandom wrote: Very nice!! But come on GW, make this a proper second wave for Sylvaneth eventually, there's at least half a dozen more unit types for Sylvaneth/Kurnothi teased via Underworlds/WHQ by now :|
100% this! Just make sure its all in the same book. Even though Sylvaneth has a lot of units already, I'd rather them get Kurnothi rolled into the same book than have to get a second army in order to enjoy proper Wood Elves.
Third* army.
Dryads and that stuff weren't "proper Wood Elves". There was a whole Forest Spirit sublist(Dryads, Treekin, Treelords, Drycha) that one could field without a single elf. And that's not even mentioning that some things(Orion and his Hunting Hounds plus his equerries, the Wild Riders) were just flatout Forest Spirits. The Kurnothi, from what we've seen so far, seem to be closer in form and function to Orion and his Wild Riders: they're Forest Spirits rather than mortals like the Wanderers.
If I recall correctly, Wild Riders were only Forest Spirits in 6th (and 7th by extension), the 8th ed book no longer gave them the Forest Spirit keyword - which was odd, as the new plastic models made them far less Elven. Only the Great Stag (lord/hero mount) was still an actual Forest Spirit, weirdly enough.
If I recall correctly, Wild Riders were only Forest Spirits in 6th (and 7th by extension), the 8th ed book no longer gave them the Forest Spirit keyword - which was odd, as the new plastic models made them far less Elven. Only the Great Stag (lord/hero mount) was still an actual Forest Spirit, weirdly enough.
I genuinely do not have the pre-6th edition book, so cannot comment on if Forest Spirit was a thing or not then: but yes, that was the point I was making. I just didn't feel like going through the whole "History of Wood Elves In Brief" summary today.
I will never understand what GW was thinking on that book or what they did with Wanderers at AoS launch.
If I recall correctly, Wild Riders were only Forest Spirits in 6th (and 7th by extension), the 8th ed book no longer gave them the Forest Spirit keyword - which was odd, as the new plastic models made them far less Elven. Only the Great Stag (lord/hero mount) was still an actual Forest Spirit, weirdly enough.
I genuinely do not have the pre-6th edition book, so cannot comment on if Forest Spirit was a thing or not then: but yes, that was the point I was making. I just didn't feel like going through the whole "History of Wood Elves In Brief" summary today.
I will never understand what GW was thinking on that book or what they did with Wanderers at AoS launch.
Lets not forget even GW wasn't sure what it was really doing with AoS at launch.
From the interview that surfaced a while back it seems that AoS was originally on track to be basically a revamped story behind Old World but mostly Old World armies. Then it seems middle management got a hold of it and it got twisted. Points went out; Rules went jovial; a lack of consumer feedback meant that they basically got hyper focused on sales figures in isolation of any consumer feedback. I think that led to armies being dropped due to low sales not because of any lack of interest or fault of the models, but because the rules and support around them had been dire and thus players had momentarily abandoned them (as was a problem with Old World in general).
As a result AoS shifted from being a game to being a boutique model line in part because that's all you can tell from 0 player feedback and consumer feedback and purely looking at model sales data. Armies got dropped; armies got fragmented and shattered. Heck I suspect that GW was cutting down anything to small releases and would have chopped and changed them at will purely on sale volume alone. The result was honestly a mess.
I still think GW isn't quite sure what to do with some legacy forces. Eg I get a growing feeling that part of GW wants to reunite the Dark Elf modes (the whole army is basically there barring the artillery and a few heroes/leaders). Meanwhile its impossible to predict if Kurnothi are going to be a united force with Sylvaneth; or their own thing or even a whole army and whatever way that goes the remains in Cities of Sigmar are still under question.
Heck lets not forget that at one stage GW were clearly gearing up for Dark Oath to be either a new army or the new name for Slaves to Darkness. Yet it seems that plan got shelved and Dark Oath didn't even get a Warcry Warband.
AoS has gone through a LOT of changes and even though 2.0 has sorted a lot of things out; it still need sa huge amount of attention. Consider that perhaps one reason 40K Eldar aren't updated is that AoS is heavily dominating GWs creative output right now. In way GW has to do that to bring the game up to standard; to bring it up to something that will be popular and to provide for the various armies - ergo customers .
I was skeptical of AoS for a long time. I was really sad that they had destroyed the Old World but I feel really good about things these days. AoS is really coming into its own and I like the Pantheon idea with lots of Characters New/Old vying for power.
I hope we do get a more general unification of the different races though.... I'm not a big fan of having lots and lots of small factions.
Yeah, the splintered factions are annoying. They have been reversing some of that though, since they re-merged the orks for example. I'll be surprised if Kurnothi aren't united with Sylvaneth.
There are also a number of allegiances offering cross-faction mixing, to varying degrees of effectiveness. Any of the mono-god armies, for example, can take their specific units as well as anything from Slaves to Darkness that is markable, and a good chunk of Beasts of Chaos units via battalion.
