They do; they can get demoted that way. Even down to the level of skeletal steed.

But yeah that's another good point; skeletons don't have souls they are just a body.

 GaroRobe wrote:
How do deathrattle skeletons work, now that Bonereapers are basically primaris skeleton? Sure, raising skeletons is easier than converting new bonereapers, and a necromancer can summon some skeletons on the fly. But wouldn't Nagash just want all the skeletons to walk to their nearest bonereaper for the tithe? In secluded places, like Cursed City, skeletons work. But I feel like in the greater scheme of things, they'd start becoming outmoded like Firstborn

Why didn't german army in ww2 build only king tigers? It's superior to pz-IV after all...

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
They do; they can get demoted that way. Even down to the level of skeletal steed.

But yeah that's another good point; skeletons don't have souls they are just a body.

Pretty sure LoN book (or was it Malign Portents book, i dont remember and can't check) has examples of shyishian kingdoms where the living work alongside their fully sentient skeletal ancestors as well as examples of kingdoms where the living are opressed by their deathrattle overlords, which requires some sort of sentience and intelligence, which in warhammer terms translates to soul. As usual, there's probably two ways to get skellies- natural shyishian magic/belief and forced necromantic practice...

I mean the basic skeleton warriors unit, not all deathrattle, apologies for the ambiguity!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/03/05/broken-realms-fiction-enlightenment/

Save me from another 'so good they're evil' trite morality cliche.

Really shouldn't be a shocking thing. The Lumineth seal off and destroy an entire ward of a city to stop a Daemonic incursion in the first fluff snippet in their book.

 GaroRobe wrote:
How do deathrattle skeletons work, now that Bonereapers are basically primaris skeleton? Sure, raising skeletons is easier than converting new bonereapers, and a necromancer can summon some skeletons on the fly. But wouldn't Nagash just want all the skeletons to walk to their nearest bonereaper for the tithe? In secluded places, like Cursed City, skeletons work. But I feel like in the greater scheme of things, they'd start becoming outmoded like Firstborn

Bonereapers require an entire logistics chain to create and maintain. The whole 'an army marches on it's stomach' can be replaced with Bone in their case, or so the snippets from White Dwarf seem to suggest. They take the harvested bone, process it and then craft into whatever it's meant to be used for - replacement limb, new Ossiarch, rebuilding an existing one, etc. That's not accounting for the souls needed to shove into them, especially when it seems they don't just slap any random farmer in there, but pick through them to find the most suitable be they soldiers for the infantry or lawyers, doctors, heroes, etc for the more specialised. The Mortisians seem quite proud of their work, more akin to artistry than just factory lines, which suggests it's a much more involved process than just an churning through whatever.

As you said, more 'Deathrattle' (ugh) you can just raise and away you go.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Really shouldn't be a shocking thing. The Lumineth seal off and destroy an entire ward of a city to stop a Daemonic incursion in the first fluff snippet in their book.

No, but they really need to find new tropes. Oh look, they brainwash the humans. Wowee, that's new!

Exactly. The fact that it isn't shocking is part of the problem.

It was an old and tired cliche (for AoS) when they had stormcast butcher villages for being attacked by nurgle forces back during whichever temporary event.

Its also just Elves Are Better Than You, dialed up to GrimDerp.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CantArgueWithElves

Hunting down the Complete Book of Elves for 2nd edition AD&D by Colin McComb (1993) will give some enlightenment on why this is just tired and played out, especially if you find some of the reviews referring to it by its alternate title.

For the differences between different Undead, I can recommend Liber Necris, an old art book thing they did, ostensibly written by Mannfred, before they made him a giant spoilt phallus.

Voss wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/03/05/broken-realms-fiction-enlightenment/

Save me from another 'so good they're evil' trite morality cliche.

Oh great

I read it as GW backing up the flaws elves are supposed to have in the setting, namely supreme arrogance and racism. It didn't seem to me like the elves were better, it seemed like they specifically weren't; they just have their own special way of being complete dicks about it. They have all this magic and so-called enlightenment, which they use to be no better than human tyrants are. If anything it is dragging them down to human level.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:

Voss wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/03/05/broken-realms-fiction-enlightenment/

Save me from another 'so good they're evil' trite morality cliche.

Oh great

Spoiler:

it's 1984.

Nowhere near nonsensical enough.

Not that this is at all the right place but it gets the most AoS traffic. (And people go off topic all the time )

Anybody have a link to some stl files that do the square to round conversion? (Preferably multiple size ones etc).
I’m aiming for like a free set of files to download from thingiverse or wherever, but a cursory search I couldn’t find any except one that has the squares hanging over.

Kritzas rats are huge.
Cool concept, and all in all a great model, but the rats are large as foxes.
Feels like a lazy design choise leaning on the tired "its fantasy, animals can be any size" explanation.

You say that like the Bosavi Wooly Rat (provisional name) isn’t a thing. Heck there’s an entire genus of cat-sized rats out there.

You worry about size? I find it lazy that they didn't bother to call them Direborn Deadgnawers or something. Rats? What kind of name is that supposed to be?

 Fayric wrote:
Kritzas rats are huge.
Cool concept, and all in all a great model, but the rats are large as foxes.
Feels like a lazy design choise leaning on the tired "its fantasy, animals can be any size" explanation.

*cough* https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/giant-rat-found-london-gas-engineer-finds-rodent-bigger-small-child-a6925591.html

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
*cough* https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/giant-rat-found-london-gas-engineer-finds-rodent-bigger-small-child-a6925591.html

Yeah, you know there are actual giant rat species around and there’s no need to repost pranks/tabloid lies that use forced perspective to make regular things look huge, right? I mean, look at the size of this donut!

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:

Spoiler:

it's 1984.

More like

I quite like the concept, but the execution is... a bit crap, to be honest. Too rushed. Not subtle or gradual enough in the shift in tone. A decent first draft of an idea, but not something that should have been published, IMO.

And people wonder why you should never trust an Elf, no matter how silly the spelling they use is...

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

 Fayric wrote:
Kritzas rats are huge.
Cool concept, and all in all a great model, but the rats are large as foxes.
Feels like a lazy design choise leaning on the tired "its fantasy, animals can be any size" explanation.

*cough* https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/giant-rat-found-london-gas-engineer-finds-rodent-bigger-small-child-a6925591.html

Also, we've had giant rats as a skaven unit forever. Sure, they're probably roided out on warpdust, but they're certainly not a new AOS thing. And for all we know, Kritzas was flaying skaven. Have a coat made out of skaven that looks nice and isn't covered in disease is a sign of wealth and uppe-rclassmanship.

 GaroRobe wrote:

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

 Fayric wrote:
Kritzas rats are huge.
Cool concept, and all in all a great model, but the rats are large as foxes.
Feels like a lazy design choise leaning on the tired "its fantasy, animals can be any size" explanation.

*cough* https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/giant-rat-found-london-gas-engineer-finds-rodent-bigger-small-child-a6925591.html

Also, we've had giant rats as a skaven unit forever. Sure, they're probably roided out on warpdust, but they're certainly not a new AOS thing. And for all we know, Kritzas was flaying skaven. Have a coat made out of skaven that looks nice and isn't covered in disease is a sign of wealth and uppe-rclassmanship.

Given that disdain skaven (#Lizardsforever) I enjoy the thought of Skaven skin cloaks as status symbols, and will roll that into my own personal canon.

Voss wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/03/05/broken-realms-fiction-enlightenment/

Save me from another 'so good they're evil' trite morality cliche.

Teclis was never "good" to begin with. He's been the "do what it takes for my people to be on top" character since the beginning with Tyrion being the moral one required to keep him in check.

The Lumineth following suit with their god is just par for the course.

It's important for many to steadily realise that just because you're not Chaos and just because you fight against Chaos; does not make you morally good. In fact you can be a horrible person and still fight against Chaos.

This is definitely where a quote from Lords and Ladies comes into play...

“Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.
Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.
The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.
No one ever said elves are nice.
Elves are bad.”

 Overread wrote:
It's important for many to steadily realise that just because you're not Chaos and just because you fight against Chaos; does not make you morally good. In fact you can be a horrible person and still fight against Chaos.

Yep - after all plenty of Chaos worshippers fight chaos, even Gw mention this when they did a cartoon showing the varied Order factions like the daughters of Khaine.

I quite liked the story - interested to see if its Elves being Elves or if there is underlying corruption in Hyish again as Slaanesh is breaking free - or both.

Anti-Chaos is not "good"

 Mr Morden wrote:

Anti-Chaos is not "good"

And Chaos doesn't have to be evil either.

There are plenty who turn to the dark gods who are not outright malicious or evil or twisted beyond the normal whims of humanity. Indeed some can have quite noble causes even honourable and loving causes. But Chaos twists, it corrupts and sinks its claws deep. The road to damnation is paved with good intentions.

I think the War Queen novella really shows this well for the Mortal Realms. It's one thing I really loved about it. Once you're at Chaos Warrior level you are mostly totally gone, yet at the lower ranks (which in the Old World past were often glossed over as just mindless rabble) in the Warbands and marauders and Dark Oath there's a lot of freedom of the individual and a lot of variety. From die-hard fanatics through to tribes and nations. Heck if you read stories about the Knights of Nurgle and such, even the fully corrupt are not without their own, twisted, sense of honour and such.


When you start to view Chaos outside of the fanatical and the insane you start to really see how "tempting" it can be. How morally good and upstanding people can be slowly twisted toward its desires. You can see how it sets in strong roots and might, for many generations, be nothing more than a whisper or a suggestion; or even something that benefits the people. Bringing them safety, security, food and wealth. Allowing them to survive against the war torn world, even against other Chaos Gods and their legions.

Not to mention that for many many people the choice is 'Chaos or die'.

 Platuan4th wrote:

Voss wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/03/05/broken-realms-fiction-enlightenment/

Save me from another 'so good they're evil' trite morality cliche.

Teclis was never "good" to begin with. He's been the "do what it takes for my people to be on top" character since the beginning with Tyrion being the moral one required to keep him in check.

The Lumineth following suit with their god is just par for the course.

Whatever. That isn't the point- I couldn't care less about Teclis.

Systematic mind rape and mass sacrifice in the name of protection makes them _completely_ unsympathetic, to the point that the rational path is to form a temporary alliance with Nagash and Archaeon and burn them out of the world utterly.

Worse, in terms of narrative, it just isn't interesting- they're just more cardboard monsters.

I mean...that's GW's way of doing "morally grey"- they mistake poop-brown for grey.

And Chaos doesn't have to be evil either.

Doesn't have to be, but that's how GW decided to go ahead with it. Chaos isn't chaotic, it's just self-destructive evil.

Voss wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

Voss wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/03/05/broken-realms-fiction-enlightenment/

Save me from another 'so good they're evil' trite morality cliche.

Teclis was never "good" to begin with. He's been the "do what it takes for my people to be on top" character since the beginning with Tyrion being the moral one required to keep him in check.

The Lumineth following suit with their god is just par for the course.

Whatever. That isn't the point- I couldn't care less about Teclis.

Systematic mind rape and mass sacrifice in the name of protection makes them _completely_ unsympathetic, to the point that the rational path is to form a temporary alliance with Nagash and Archaeon and burn them out of the world utterly.

Worse, in terms of narrative, it just isn't interesting- they're just more cardboard monsters.

It actually IS the point. To understand the elves created by Teclis, you need to understand Teclis. Their outlook on the realms and how their society works is entirely informed by their god. That's kind of been how AoS races have worked since being recreated in the realms.

sure, but also, hurr durr they so orderly they brainwash people. What TWEEST.

 Platuan4th wrote:

Voss wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

Voss wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/03/05/broken-realms-fiction-enlightenment/

Save me from another 'so good they're evil' trite morality cliche.

Teclis was never "good" to begin with. He's been the "do what it takes for my people to be on top" character since the beginning with Tyrion being the moral one required to keep him in check.

The Lumineth following suit with their god is just par for the course.

Whatever. That isn't the point- I couldn't care less about Teclis.

Systematic mind rape and mass sacrifice in the name of protection makes them _completely_ unsympathetic, to the point that the rational path is to form a temporary alliance with Nagash and Archaeon and burn them out of the world utterly.

Worse, in terms of narrative, it just isn't interesting- they're just more cardboard monsters.

It actually IS the point. To understand the elves created by Teclis, you need to understand Teclis. Their outlook on the realms and how their society works is entirely informed by their god. That's kind of been how AoS races have worked since being recreated in the realms.

Not in the least. I don't give a damp squig about how they justify things in the setting. My objection, and thus my point, is that the GW writers are trotting out these tired old cliches at all.

I'm not the least bit interested in a faction that's written the same way as an abusive foster parent in a Disney film, that kicks their children just because they can.
At this point chaos and Nagash are more nuanced, trustworthy and decent than half the Order factions. At least they're honest about wanting to stab people in the face, and have recognizable temptations and motivations.

You must not have seen many Disney movies, or didn't read the same short story as the rest of us.

Though knowing you, that may as well be true. Not like the actual content in a story would get in the way of what you believe is there.

Yeah, when you give people freedom they tend to be more inconsistent than when you enslave them to your will, big shock.

I think its partly the result of the fact that a lot of the quality BL writers are tangled up with long running 40K series and that BL lost Josh Reynolds as a writer as he was doing a lot of good with the AoS setting. So AoS has fewer established authors and more first timers and people new to the setting and such. Eg the recent Daughters of Khaine collection of 3 short stories were decently written, but there were odd lapses in the lore that got past the quality control (eg medusa was used not melusai) and also a feeling that the authors weren't making daughters of khaine so much as Drow from DnD*

I think its just a symptom of so much of it being new and at the same time lacking any kind of loremaster who holds all the strings and details. It's likely a result of the fact that AoS at launch was very much a management rather than creative driven product. Even with all the vast creativity being poured into it ** it still has those hallmarks. Something that likely will remain for a while until its got some decades under its belt. Heck don't forget lore wise these new battletomes are very rich. I've early Tyranid codex and the lore in them was a few pages at best. It took years to get page after page after page of lore.


*which I really hope DoK don't turn into because honestly Drow really don't read like a faction that could "function" in any sense of the word. Randomly killing each other for advance and hobbling in the extreme 50% of your population - which is even worse for DoK as Morathi already curses the males - isn't a recipe for a faction that "works" for generations.

** the design team for models are clearly having a LOT of both freedom and fun!

 Overread wrote:

*which I really hope DoK don't turn into because honestly Drow really don't read like a faction that could "function" in any sense of the word. Randomly killing each other for advance and hobbling in the extreme 50% of your population - which is even worse for DoK as Morathi already curses the males - isn't a recipe for a faction that "works" for generations.

You mean like Drukhari?

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Overread wrote:

*which I really hope DoK don't turn into because honestly Drow really don't read like a faction that could "function" in any sense of the word. Randomly killing each other for advance and hobbling in the extreme 50% of your population - which is even worse for DoK as Morathi already curses the males - isn't a recipe for a faction that "works" for generations.

You mean like Drukhari?

They get a minor pass as they at least use clones to bolster their numbers (in fact aren't most of them clones).
DoK still have the elephant in the room that the women are raised to a concept of survival of the fittest, yet racial purity is also clearly important to them and yet their males are the polar opposite and are likely the most frail of all the mortal races save goblins.

I think its just a symptom of so much of it being new and at the same time lacking any kind of loremaster who holds all the strings and details.

but it's not the fault of the new writers that they fall on the same tropes ALL gw products fall. GW can write exactly one storyline, and they just shift the details here and there. LRL literally copied Eldar's homework except they came out slightly better off by not having destroyed their realm fully.

DoK had more cultural diversity in that book than Drow have ever had, IMO. One story even had the protagonist know she could take power but choose not to because it wasn't her thing--she was a better fighter than a leader and she was self aware enough to know it. But more to the point (spoilers);



Small fish compared to Khorne though, which has been exaggerated and, though I hate to use the word, flanderized to the point of stupidity. Though this is all just my personal reaction of course.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cronch wrote:

I think its just a symptom of so much of it being new and at the same time lacking any kind of loremaster who holds all the strings and details.

but it's not the fault of the new writers that they fall on the same tropes ALL gw products fall. GW can write exactly one storyline, and they just shift the details here and there. LRL literally copied Eldar's homework except they came out slightly better off by not having destroyed their realm fully.

What's the one storyline?

Also, let's give the authors of the WHC short stories some credit--they are working with just a couple pages of text. Relying on tropes to fill in the narrative blanks is a necessity in that context and the stories would suffer greatly if they didn't.

Imo, GW has a rather clear definition of how their elves behave and what makes them theirs, the rest is simply putting different flairs to the archetype. I've quite enjoyed the story, it seems more than the old Asur, the Lumineth are willing to actively use any of the earthbound races for their agenda. That even reducing the percentage of the ozone didn't decrease their arrogance is quite simply marvellous.

What's the one storyline?

For the elves, it's the Arrogant Old Race Takes A Tumble Of Their Own Making, And Now They're Dying.
With the Lumineth being different only by the virtue of getting their gak together after the Fall. Sorry, SPIREFALL.

Far as I can tell none of the Aelves in AoS are a dying race as such. In fact I'd say right now they are doing better than most humans (or at least equal to them). The only Aelf race that has issues like that are the Idoneth who are not so much dying as simply being souless and are basically soul vampires.


Dwarves are FAR more a fallen and broken race right now, though how much of that is lore and how much is just that GW haven't got to them is hard to say. The Khadorans are certainly doing well right now and are almost the lifeblood of inter-realm trade and transport. Meanwhile the Fyreslayers seem to be doing ok, they just lack model support. The Dispossessed are stuck with humans in being an element that's undeveloped beyond the launch days in both lore and models.

Cronch wrote:

What's the one storyline?

For the elves, it's the Arrogant Old Race Takes A Tumble Of Their Own Making, And Now They're Dying.
With the Lumineth being different only by the virtue of getting their gak together after the Fall. Sorry, SPIREFALL.

So, when you said "GW can write exactly one storyline" you were completely making that claim up with no backing whatsoever.

To start, you add the qualifier "for elves" which is a MASSIVE shift of goalposts. Then you go to "arrogant old race" except Lumineth aren't old, they are newer than humans and dwarves in AoS. By a large margin. Ditto for Idoneth. Only DoK have baseline elves, who are only older if you go back to a different setting. Then it is "takes a tumble of their own making" which applies to Lumineth but not to any of the other elf factions in AoS. And finally "and now they're dying" which is not true for ANY of the elf factions in AoS.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Knight wrote:
Imo, GW has a rather clear definition of how their elves behave and what makes them theirs, the rest is simply putting different flairs to the archetype. I've quite enjoyed the story, it seems more than the old Asur, the Lumineth are willing to actively use any of the earthbound races for their agenda. That even reducing the percentage of the ozone didn't decrease their arrogance is quite simply marvellous.

Bah, that ozone was just a Chaos-corrupted version of good ole atmospheric oxygen anyway



In other news, anyone else excited for the full Be'Lakor reveal tomorrow? The silhouette looks awesome.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
In other news, anyone else excited for the full Be'Lakor reveal tomorrow? The silhouette looks awesome.

The model? Yes. The price? No.

I'm thinking I'd be neck deep in AoS models now if they had released this year's shinies three years ago instead of all those Sigmarines and Primaris, in spite of my dislike for the game's rules. But with how prices have gone up since then, I'm not sure if I want Belakor to look all that great.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/03/08/belakors-back-and-oh-wow-hes-enormous/






This is an amazing model

Yep, that's a fantastic update. Wings are kind of obnoxious, but that's par the course right now.

Also, what 40K player stateside wants the Astartes casualty when I buy this mini?

 Geifer wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
In other news, anyone else excited for the full Be'Lakor reveal tomorrow? The silhouette looks awesome.

The model? Yes. The price? No.

I'm thinking I'd be neck deep in AoS models now if they had released this year's shinies three years ago instead of all those Sigmarines and Primaris, in spite of my dislike for the game's rules. But with how prices have gone up since then, I'm not sure if I want Belakor to look all that great.

We're out of luck it seems, because dam he looks super fething cool. Takes everything about the old sculpt and makes it bigger, better, badass. The sword bleeding shadows, the intricate armor, the horns, even his tactical rock is awesome and super daemonic! There is nothing I dislike about this miniature, save the price reveal...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 nels1031 wrote:
Yep, that's a fantastic update. Wings are kind of obnoxious, but that's par the course right now.

Also, what 40K player stateside wants the Astartes casualty when I buy this mini?

I'm down with uberwings, because it is a special character. They get a pass on that sort of thing.

 nels1031 wrote:


Also, what 40K player stateside wants the Astartes casualty when I buy this mini?

Hmu. I'm sure I could find some use for half a lieutenant

 GaroRobe wrote:

 nels1031 wrote:


Also, what 40K player stateside wants the Astartes casualty when I buy this mini?

Hmu. I'm sure I could find some use for half a lieutenant

I'll keep you in mind, dude. Hopefully this guy is coming soon.

Within 3 months. Likely not before may

Yeah, they still actually have to get Broken Realms 2 (Teclis) out before they start releasing BR3. Presumably the pile of cosplay elves as well.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
In other news, anyone else excited for the full Be'Lakor reveal tomorrow? The silhouette looks awesome.

The model? Yes. The price? No.

I'm thinking I'd be neck deep in AoS models now if they had released this year's shinies three years ago instead of all those Sigmarines and Primaris, in spite of my dislike for the game's rules. But with how prices have gone up since then, I'm not sure if I want Belakor to look all that great.

We're out of luck it seems, because dam he looks super fething cool. Takes everything about the old sculpt and makes it bigger, better, badass. The sword bleeding shadows, the intricate armor, the horns, even his tactical rock is awesome and super daemonic! There is nothing I dislike about this miniature, save the price reveal...

Yeah, that one goes on the shopping list. Very nice update of the original.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 nels1031 wrote:
Yep, that's a fantastic update. Wings are kind of obnoxious, but that's par the course right now.

Also, what 40K player stateside wants the Astartes casualty when I buy this mini?

I'm down with uberwings, because it is a special character. They get a pass on that sort of thing.

I guess they could have been folded, but they do look sized to fit the model and spread wings allow the chains to come out better. I can live with that.

I do acknowledge that transporting the model will likely be an issue. It's an affliction that goes back over a decade by now. At least Belakor looks like he's got a reasonably flat back, and he's pretty beefy. There are no small, fragile bits sticking out in every direction that make you wonder how you're supposed to put it in a foam tray. He's just hogging a lot of space.

Magnetized wings for me.

 GaroRobe wrote:

 nels1031 wrote:


Also, what 40K player stateside wants the Astartes casualty when I buy this mini?

Hmu. I'm sure I could find some use for half a lieutenant

I’d love one of them as well. Also note the wing skulls, there’s some 40k specific ones as well.

Looks like different arm, face, and wing stuff between the two. That said, not a fan of head redesign with 50 horns, old head looked better, IMO.

 Irbis wrote:
Looks like different arm, face, and wing stuff between the two. That said, not a fan of head redesign with 50 horns, old head looked better, IMO.

Literally has the same number of horns as the old head.

Chest piece thing is different, and yeah ‘wing stuff’ and head.
But I’m still not convinced the hand isn’t the same one at a different angle..

I like everything about the model except the proportions of his legs. There is something about them I'm not crazy about.

Hachette’s Mortal Realms is launching in France.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Hachette’s Mortal Realms is launching in France.

There's a thread for Hachette, let's try keeping their info there.

Totally not least because it annoys me that there's no US. Nooope.

I did try to find the Mortal Realms one, but couldn’t.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Hachette’s Mortal Realms is launching in France.

There's a thread for Hachette, let's try keeping their info there.

Totally not least because it annoys me that there's no US. Nooope.

you and me brother..you and me...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/03/19/broken-realms-fiction-the-path-of-futility/

More Broken Realms story time.

Its... Mannfred. And apparently he's pre-emptively setting up a sudden and inevitable betrayal. Very atmospheric, though.
His country needs a better name than 'Carstinia,' however.

Voss wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/03/19/broken-realms-fiction-the-path-of-futility/

More Broken Realms story time.

Its... Mannfred. And apparently he's pre-emptively setting up a sudden and inevitable betrayal. Very atmospheric, though.
His country needs a better name than 'Carstinia,' however.

Carstlevania maybe?

 ScarletRose wrote:

Voss wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/03/19/broken-realms-fiction-the-path-of-futility/

More Broken Realms story time.

Its... Mannfred. And apparently he's pre-emptively setting up a sudden and inevitable betrayal. Very atmospheric, though.
His country needs a better name than 'Carstinia,' however.

Carstlevania maybe?

I just assumed he named it after the von Carstein family, actually. It seemed a bit trite and overly sentimental (for Mannfred) or just lazy (for the GW writers)

Well its supposedly full of puppets that are all like his old family and enemies, all waiting on him and and foot and singing his priases

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Well its supposedly full of puppets that are all like his old family and enemies, all waiting on him and and foot and singing his priases

I hadn't realized he was supposed to be that shallow of a character.

Well its more like he cant let go of his old hubris and the old world where he was denied his birthright.

Kiwis' online shop has this weeks preorders up, and we have finally our full 3D preview of the full warband. They surely bring foward The Great Plan.

They cost $75 NZ, and only uses two sprues, which makes the plan of Crendor (WoW and no WarhammerCrendor) of buying like 5 boxes something reasonable.

And, for 225 points, we can send the Starblood Stalker to the battlefield of the Mortal Realms. They have the Keywords COALESCED, THUNDER LIZARD, which surprised me a lot because I expected them to be neutral.

Voss wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/03/19/broken-realms-fiction-the-path-of-futility/

More Broken Realms story time.

Its... Mannfred. And apparently he's pre-emptively setting up a sudden and inevitable betrayal. Very atmospheric, though.
His country needs a better name than 'Carstinia,' however.

It's Mannfred - he has two states of being:

- Planning a betrayal
- Enacting a betrayal

Soulblight Gravelords Preview

Aside from the name, these really look very old-school at first glance. Probably one of the few AOS factions that you could play entirely with classic Fantasy minis from the 80ies and 90ies.

Ooh, I'll definitely be picking up one of the zombie sprues (to add variety and reduce duplication of the Cursed City models) - but I do hope the Fell Bats will get rules for WQ as well - can never have too great a variety of adversaries!

Voss wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/03/19/broken-realms-fiction-the-path-of-futility/

More Broken Realms story time.

Its... Mannfred. And apparently he's pre-emptively setting up a sudden and inevitable betrayal. Very atmospheric, though.
His country needs a better name than 'Carstinia,' however.

It's doubly stupid considering "Carstein" is already a geographic description name.

Broken Realms Kragnos is very intriguing. What is he? Who are his people?

Zombies are great, but they'll need a lot of options to look good in the massed hordes they come in (up to 60, no?).

Skeletons feel unnecessary, the current kit is good enough, and now they overshadow the elite Grave Guard. Suppose they could always update them too, but still. Dire wolves would have been a better use of the time as it currently appears.

Love the bats, and the Blood Knights are divine. Hoping for a nightmare mounted Vampire Lord too

 ImAGeek wrote:
Broken Realms Kragnos is very intriguing. What is he? Who are his people?

And are they Destruction?

Was it a dragon ogre type thing, a kurnothi thing?
I need to go look at the picture again as I saw too much other nice things to remember now.
Brb.

Here's the Broken Realms Kragnos image

Very dragon ogre ish really isn’t it.
And he says slept for ages or something too maybe?
Dragon ogres are very old right?

Danny76 wrote:
Very dragon ogre ish really isn’t it.
And he says slept for ages or something too maybe?
Dragon ogres are very old right?

It’s a horse though, innit. Not reptilian, like a Dragon Ogre. Kragan isn’t a very elfy name, and he’s looking at a ruined city when saying his people are gone, so I don’t think it’s Kurnothi either. Plus his shield is that rumour engine of all the dwarfy shields which doesn’t match Kurnothi.

Looks more like a Centigor than a Dragon Ogre.

Kragnos the black was the first Dragon Ogre from the world that was and is described as literally being the size of a mountain. I think Archaon had to retrieve one of his items from him at some as part of his quest to be Everchosen

It does however solve a Rumour Engine.



It’s his shield. Whoever he is.

No wolves on Fenris wrote:
Kragnos the black was the first Dragon Ogre from the world that was and is described as literally being the size of a mountain. I think Archaon had to retrieve one of his items from him at some as part of his quest to be Everchosen

That would be Krakanok the Black.

Very likely to be that horse leg sneak peak as well.

Kragnos, I guess we may or may not see a model for, and who knows about artwork.
This I’m not sure is him. Just one of his guys?
As it says he’s a god, and that fits with the old world stuff too.. perhaps him becoming a god.

Maybe dragon ogres, dragon horses, dragon dragons..

Well as Underworld has given plenty of plot points before, I say that is the god of the mountain in what Beastgrave is going on.

 Ghaz wrote:

No wolves on Fenris wrote:
Kragnos the black was the first Dragon Ogre from the world that was and is described as literally being the size of a mountain. I think Archaon had to retrieve one of his items from him at some as part of his quest to be Everchosen

That would be Krakanok the Black.

Hmm scratch that then.
Just something new..

Sotahullu wrote:
Well as Underworld has given plenty of plot points before, I say that is the god of the mountain in what Beastgrave is going on.

The damn Skink didn't plant the Void Nuke deep enough down, did he? They freed the damn thing rather than destroy. Damn skinks!

 DaveC wrote:
Here's the Broken Realms Kragnos image

Hmmm. His tail and horns do like different than Skaeth.



Kind of different than the Centigors, but this guy has hooves and much larger horns.

Well this whole time I’ve been thinking the front two hooves are a claw curled (like the Shaggith).
Now I’m off the DO idea when I zoomed in

Blood Knights will look incredible with less cartoonishly red armour. Fell Bats and Zombies are brilliant. I actually don't like the aesthetic of these skeletons over the existing ones. It's fine to have them as something a little different for Cursed City, but they don't need to be the norm.

Centaur like, horns on his he@d look like his and not a helmet.

Also let’s go back to the point that this is BR book 4.
Great news.
I still think we are looking 7 or so books (and maybe or maybe not a new edition. I, not convinced just because three years has happened a few times now, but maybe..)

The skeletons are still pretty fine models, too. I’d have rather they did something else instead like dire Wolves.

Didn’t hate the wolves.
I used them for my Warriors of Nurgle as Chaos Hounds.
With a deathly green paint job it worked great.

I first thought these new skeletons come with halberds but it looks like it is for champion.

But I really wonder if they will redo grave guard also.

Sotahullu wrote:
I first thought these new skeletons come with halberds but it looks like it is for champion.

But I really wonder if they will redo grave guard also.

They mentioned early in the live stream that they have the option of either hand weapon or spear availalble in the kit.

 ImAGeek wrote:
The skeletons are still pretty fine models, too. I’d have rather they did something else instead like dire Wolves.

How do you know they haven't?
Just because they've teased you with a few models/units doesn't mean that's all you're getting.

Can't say I'm a huge fan of Skeletons being done.

Ah well, just means when I do my Death army that I've started doing bit by bit it's now going to have 4 generations of Skeletons in it. Guess I'll just mix and mingle them properly.

ccs wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
The skeletons are still pretty fine models, too. I’d have rather they did something else instead like dire Wolves.

How do you know they haven't?
Just because they've teased you with a few models/units doesn't mean that's all you're getting.

This.

Definitely looks like some form of Direwolf on the cover of the book

 Ghaz wrote:

No wolves on Fenris wrote:
Kragnos the black was the first Dragon Ogre from the world that was and is described as literally being the size of a mountain. I think Archaon had to retrieve one of his items from him at some as part of his quest to be Everchosen

That would be Krakanok the Black.

Yes I looked it up and realised I was mistaken. Think I got excited

Dam, loving the look of those new models! Very excited & curious to see what that new BR is about. Kurnothi? Beastmen? I'm leaning Kurnothi, but hard to tell.

Also, looks like confirmation that Gravelords are not replacing LoN.

Possible new big guy?

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Possible new big guy?

Looks like the blood knight champion with a fell bat behind it.

Yeah, that's just a Fell Bat behind the Kastellan

So now that the soulblight are getting their own book that leaves the question of what happens to Nagash. Right now he has the oldest battletome left and it is a mix his own guys and a little of ever death faction. Now with the new book every faction in the old one has its own place what I think they will do is create a new battletome that will be just for Nagash, the Morghasts and maybe all the Mortarchs in a single book.

Voss wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/03/19/broken-realms-fiction-the-path-of-futility/

More Broken Realms story time.

Its... Mannfred. And apparently he's pre-emptively setting up a sudden and inevitable betrayal. Very atmospheric, though.
His country needs a better name than 'Carstinia,' however.

Also being Mannfred he cocks it up -

A small detail, yes, but crucial. Neferata would be howling with laughter, were she ever to learn of it.

she probably does that quite a lot when her spies report on him.

He made his domain as a mockery of Sylvania complete with composites of the other von Carsteins but after living with it for a bit realised how pathetic it all was and went off to mope somewhere else, although he try being a hero for a bit at Helstone - I think he desperatly wants to be one but tends to revert to type.

Interested to see what the lore is for the new Soulblight and where/who they focuss on.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 KingGarland wrote:
So now that the soulblight are getting their own book that leaves the question of what happens to Nagash. Right now he has the oldest battletome left and it is a mix his own guys and a little of ever death faction. Now with the new book every faction in the old one has its own place what I think they will do is create a new battletome that will be just for Nagash, the Morghasts and maybe all the Mortarchs in a single book.

Nagash and Arkhan are quite at home with the Bone Reapers, Neferata and Mannfred with the Soulblight and Olynder with the Nighthaunts

Legions of Nagash could remain - basically it doesn't need any unique models and is a more balanced approach to a "grand alliance army" than a GA army ever could be. That said almost the entire core of LoN is Vampire models and necromancers and zombies and skeletons.

I'd wager LoN might vanish and the Vampires will replace it in function. A change that I can't see many opposing since its almost a straight forward swap.

Nagash and Arkhan are quite at home with the Bone Reapers, Neferata and Mannfred with the Soulblight and Olynder with the Nighthaunts

But where is KRELL in all this?

Fingers crossed the plant zombies come in a box of 20 for Kairic Acolyte prices...

The last box of 20 if I recall correctly was OBR Mortek Guard for £35/$60 so I can see Zombies being similar or with a slight new release bump.

I like those a lot!

They are much less high fantasy than most of the AoS range. Only the second time after the new chaos warriors, that models made me really consider starting AoS.

Are the soulblight independent from Nagash? Please say yes.

Also, how will they play? I am loving me some vampires.

 Niiai wrote:
Are the soulblight independent from Nagash? Please say yes.

Also, how will they play? I am loving me some vampires.

I would say they're one of the more independent factions within Nagash's empire, but they are definitely not beyond his control as far as I know, given that a couple of his Mortarchs are vampires themselves.

 Grimskul wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Are the soulblight independent from Nagash? Please say yes.

Also, how will they play? I am loving me some vampires.

I would say they're one of the more independent factions within Nagash's empire, but they are definitely not beyond his control as far as I know, given that a couple of his Mortarchs are vampires themselves.

To put it another way; they all have enough free will to wish they were, but not enough to actually successfully achieve it.
I have little doubt that Nagash finds this hilarious, at least as much as that is possible for him.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 KingGarland wrote:
So now that the soulblight are getting their own book that leaves the question of what happens to Nagash. Right now he has the oldest battletome left and it is a mix his own guys and a little of ever death faction. Now with the new book every faction in the old one has its own place what I think they will do is create a new battletome that will be just for Nagash, the Morghasts and maybe all the Mortarchs in a single book.

Nagash and Arkhan are quite at home with the Bone Reapers, Neferata and Mannfred with the Soulblight and Olynder with the Nighthaunts

I forgot Nagash was in the Bone Reapers. I fully expect Neferata and Mannfred to be in the new book my idea was that Nagash and the Mortarchs would be in a new book as well as their own factions allowing you to take a super army of Deaths heaviest hitters.

 Mr Morden wrote:


He made his domain as a mockery of Sylvania complete with composites of the other von Carsteins but after living with it for a bit realised how pathetic it all was and went off to mope somewhere else, although he try being a hero for a bit at Helstone - I think he desperatly wants to be one but tends to revert to type.

Wish we could just get Vlad and Isabella back. You know, the cool von Carsteins.

 Mr_Rose wrote:
To put it another way; they all have enough free will to wish they were, but not enough to actually successfully achieve it.
I have little doubt that Nagash finds this hilarious, at least as much as that is possible for him.

I'm fairly certain there are Flesh-eaters that fiercely oppose Nagash, which would indicate that a vampire can in fact act independently?

 Grimskul wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Are the soulblight independent from Nagash? Please say yes.

Also, how will they play? I am loving me some vampires.

I would say they're one of the more independent factions within Nagash's empire, but they are definitely not beyond his control as far as I know, given that a couple of his Mortarchs are vampires themselves.

Very few serve Nagash by choice - Mannfred and other powerful Vampires have tried to rebel and been slapped down (and Mannfred has had mind and soul remade several times) for it, Neferata hates and fears him but makes the best of it and tries to pretend he does not rule her.

After all Nagash does not care why you serve as long as you do - although if they were not useful he would replace the Vampires with Bonereapers and Nighthaunts - probably his long term plan....and soulblight like Neferata probably know it.

Flesh Eater Courts are protected somewhat by their madness - hence why Nagash imprisoned the first of their kind.

Zombies and skeletons are really nice. Not to sure about the blood knights. More similar in style with mr bat hair than the absolutely gorgeous vampires from underworld.

Guess well get a few other kits. Hopefully wolves gets redone (they are really showing their ages), and i guess we get new varghulf. Probably something new and unexpected also

Doesn’t Nagash have control over anything dead and undead.

Ghouls are loving so wouldn’t count (then the dead stuff in the book being too crazy, the characters etc).

 Mr Morden wrote:
After all Nagash does not care why you serve as long as you do - although if they were not useful he would replace the Vampires with Bonereapers and Nighthaunts - probably his long term plan....and soulblight like Neferata probably know it.

Ah, so there's potential for a future schism. I'd love to see vampires position themselves somewhere between Order and Death proper, like they did in WFB.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
After all Nagash does not care why you serve as long as you do - although if they were not useful he would replace the Vampires with Bonereapers and Nighthaunts - probably his long term plan....and soulblight like Neferata probably know it.

Ah, so there's potential for a future schism. I'd love to see vampires position themselves somewhere between Order and Death proper, like they did in WFB.

There is indeed, both they and the Wight Kings and Queens used to be guests for tournaments etc in Azyr and the other Realms in the Age of Myth and Sigmar sought out Neferata as an ally when he came back at the dawn of the Age of Sigmar.

But can they break from his will?
It reads like no one can.

So it took GW twenty years to do new zombies? And how many are in a box? Ten?! Yes, this is an acceptable size for a unit of zombies...


Meanwhile I have assembled my zombie army from other companies. Hard pass, GW.

Well we don’t know.
I think it’ll be a box of 20.
Four sprues.

I am honestly pretty upset Soulblight Gravelords seem to just be a reimagining of Vampire Counts.
I was hoping for a legit vampire army that was like a dark reflection of medieval armies, but with vampires instead of footmen, or Monsters instead of Siege engines. Kinda like Carmillas army in the new castlevania

Danny76 wrote:
But can they break from his will?
It reads like no one can.

They have tried (and thus far failed) - after all

All are one in Nagash

- but I don't think its impossible, especially if more gods of the dead are freed from within Nagash

Danny76 wrote:
Well we don’t know.
I think it’ll be a box of 20.
Four sprues.

Yup, mortek were in 20 after all.

Danny76 wrote:
But can they break from his will?
It reads like no one can.

It seems like you can escape his will until he wants you back under it - if you dig a deep enough hole far away enough from Shyish you might be alright, but if he comes knockin' and wants you to dance to his tune you're out of luck.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
After all Nagash does not care why you serve as long as you do - although if they were not useful he would replace the Vampires with Bonereapers and Nighthaunts - probably his long term plan....and soulblight like Neferata probably know it.

Ah, so there's potential for a future schism. I'd love to see vampires position themselves somewhere between Order and Death proper, like they did in WFB.

in the Old World Nagash created first vampires, and thus they were, like all his creatures, enslaved to his will. In Mortal Realms it seems to be the same way- since he is the lord of undeath, all of undead are just extension of his will...some just need more effort to harness, like vampires which like to pretend they have free will.

Cronch wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
After all Nagash does not care why you serve as long as you do - although if they were not useful he would replace the Vampires with Bonereapers and Nighthaunts - probably his long term plan....and soulblight like Neferata probably know it.

Ah, so there's potential for a future schism. I'd love to see vampires position themselves somewhere between Order and Death proper, like they did in WFB.

in the Old World Nagash created first vampires, and thus they were, like all his creatures, enslaved to his will. In Mortal Realms it seems to be the same way- since he is the lord of undeath, all of undead are just extension of his will...some just need more effort to harness, like vampires which like to pretend they have free will.

That is not really correct. First vampires were born when some nobles in goo' old Nehekhara tried to create Nagash potions that could give immense power and immortality. They weren't entirely succesful and before long they had turned into vampires, mockery what they wanted. One thing lead to another and they became (not created for) Nagash champions for short time. So while vampires are tied to Nagash, they have much more independence because they kinda half-accidentally became vampires by Nagash works and not by him.

So Nagash real strenght over vampire is just basically that he is immensely powerful god of the Death. And as vampires are tied to Death magic they can't say no to him.

Yep Neferata was the first Vampire in the Old World and she is the same in the Mortal Realms - however its not totally clear if she (and other Mortarchs) are actually the same people or Nagash's memories of the same, emboiding elements of his personality - at least thats how Arkhan talks about it. Conversely I doubt Nagash would haev bothered with elements of their personaility - ie Neferata flirting with Arkhan....Nagash was a humourless psycho even before he became a Necromancer and vast power/godhood has not done his personality any favours.

I'll definitely be adding that mounted Wight King, his new skeleton retinue and those giant bats to my display case.

Not quite sure about the blood knights yet, but they do look promising.

 ImAGeek wrote:

Danny76 wrote:
Very dragon ogre ish really isn’t it.
And he says slept for ages or something too maybe?
Dragon ogres are very old right?

It’s a horse though, innit. Not reptilian, like a Dragon Ogre. Kragan isn’t a very elfy name, and he’s looking at a ruined city when saying his people are gone, so I don’t think it’s Kurnothi either. Plus his shield is that rumour engine of all the dwarfy shields which doesn’t match Kurnothi.

Could this be AOS Chaos Dwarves with some Centaur-God-Dwarf leader thing?

Chaos Dwarves in plastic could explain why FW got rid of their entire range of Legion of Azgorh

Oh my, that would definitely be an amazing twist; having Hashut’s successor/avatar wake up and be all “wait, wtf?” because he completely missed the sundering of the world and the rise of the realms.

So we know the other deathrattle stuff is in SBGL, but what about...
-The other deadwalker stuff. Anyone spot hints of dire wolves or corpse carts?
-Necromancer. The basic human dude, do we think they will be hanging with Soulblight? They are more of an iconic LoN thing, if SBGL are a replacement (at this point unlikely IMO, but still possible) then yes but they don't fit into the role of either vampire or undead thrall.
-Mortis engine. Another deathmage unit, and again doesn't really fit the vampire/thrall categories. Hm.
-Legion black coach. The weird not-a-unit unit that seems to have ended up in a strange sort of limbo.
-Unmounted dragon & terry. Given the VLoZD is most assuredly not going anywhere, it does make sense for these to be in as well.

If we assume the LoN replacement is a thing then Morghasts and Arkhan could end up as either included or ally status only. Though not having Arkhan be able to lead an army for normal undead stuff seems weird. It would also open up (maybe) some Nighthaunt units being drafted in.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
So we know the other deathrattle stuff is in SBGL, but what about...
-The other deadwalker stuff. Anyone spot hints of dire wolves or corpse carts?
-Necromancer. The basic human dude, do we think they will be hanging with Soulblight? They are more of an iconic LoN thing, if SBGL are a replacement (at this point unlikely IMO, but still possible) then yes but they don't fit into the role of either vampire or undead thrall.
-Mortis engine. Another deathmage unit, and again doesn't really fit the vampire/thrall categories. Hm.
-Legion black coach. The weird not-a-unit unit that seems to have ended up in a strange sort of limbo.
-Unmounted dragon & terry. Given the VLoZD is most assuredly not going anywhere, it does make sense for these to be in as well.

If we assume the LoN replacement is a thing then Morghasts and Arkhan could end up as either included or ally status only. Though not having Arkhan be able to lead an army for normal undead stuff seems weird. It would also open up (maybe) some Nighthaunt units being drafted in.

I think all the Deathmage stuff is going to go into Soulblight. I expect the Legion Black Coach and any other models like Wolves may just end up beign squatted.

I think the Terrorgheist will probably remain FEC only, but I'm not sure on that one. I think Arkhan is sticking in OBR, and I expect Nagash will be likely be a unit in every Death tome going forward, like he was in OBR.

I think the Corpse Cart holds up pretty damn well...

Danny76 wrote:
Ghouls are loving so wouldn’t count (then the dead stuff in the book being too crazy, the characters etc).

I've got to be honest, but "loving" is not a word I typically associate with Ghouls. Especially in Warhammer settings.

Love that book cover, love the model range, but can't stop pronouncing it "Gravel-ords".


I really don't enjoy Age of Sigmar as a game but I want that book anyway, and the models will find a home in my kings of war undead army if the price is right

 Dysartes wrote:

Danny76 wrote:
Ghouls are loving so wouldn’t count (then the dead stuff in the book being too crazy, the characters etc).

I've got to be honest, but "loving" is not a word I typically associate with Ghouls. Especially in Warhammer settings.

Living. They’re living.
And loving.

My only disapointment is that all the undead are still human - was hoping for some Zombies for other races - plastic versions of the Cursed Company

If my eyes and maths are correct, we have seen 9 unique pairs of zombie legs so far and 14 different builds in total. Sprue of ten, each with two distinct build seems likely. Hopefully two such sprues are included in a box.

Either way, that is lot of spare parts and 20 unique poses isn't too bad for a horde unit. It is certainly better than repeating the same four pairs of legs and torsos infinitely.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
So we know the other deathrattle stuff is in SBGL, but what about...
-The other deadwalker stuff. Anyone spot hints of dire wolves or corpse carts?
-Necromancer. The basic human dude, do we think they will be hanging with Soulblight? They are more of an iconic LoN thing, if SBGL are a replacement (at this point unlikely IMO, but still possible) then yes but they don't fit into the role of either vampire or undead thrall.
-Mortis engine. Another deathmage unit, and again doesn't really fit the vampire/thrall categories. Hm.
-Legion black coach. The weird not-a-unit unit that seems to have ended up in a strange sort of limbo.
-Unmounted dragon & terry. Given the VLoZD is most assuredly not going anywhere, it does make sense for these to be in as well.

If we assume the LoN replacement is a thing then Morghasts and Arkhan could end up as either included or ally status only. Though not having Arkhan be able to lead an army for normal undead stuff seems weird. It would also open up (maybe) some Nighthaunt units being drafted in.

Vampires have mortal attendants and whole populations of living under their thrall, so I figure Necromancers will likely be baked in. The Corpse Cart's a relatively newish kit, but they do lack the Twigimpaled Deathwalkers(tm) look, although that could be handwaved as them being recent corpses rather than out of the ground. The Mortis Engine will probably stay around by virtue of the Coven Throne still existing, assuming it does.

Black Coach will probably get the chop, but then again, it can have a sealed coffin on the inside.

 Arbitrator wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
So we know the other deathrattle stuff is in SBGL, but what about...
-The other deadwalker stuff. Anyone spot hints of dire wolves or corpse carts?
-Necromancer. The basic human dude, do we think they will be hanging with Soulblight? They are more of an iconic LoN thing, if SBGL are a replacement (at this point unlikely IMO, but still possible) then yes but they don't fit into the role of either vampire or undead thrall.
-Mortis engine. Another deathmage unit, and again doesn't really fit the vampire/thrall categories. Hm.
-Legion black coach. The weird not-a-unit unit that seems to have ended up in a strange sort of limbo.
-Unmounted dragon & terry. Given the VLoZD is most assuredly not going anywhere, it does make sense for these to be in as well.

If we assume the LoN replacement is a thing then Morghasts and Arkhan could end up as either included or ally status only. Though not having Arkhan be able to lead an army for normal undead stuff seems weird. It would also open up (maybe) some Nighthaunt units being drafted in.

Vampires have mortal attendants and whole populations of living under their thrall, so I figure Necromancers will likely be baked in. The Corpse Cart's a relatively newish kit, but they do lack the Twigimpaled Deathwalkers(tm) look, although that could be handwaved as them being recent corpses rather than out of the ground. The Mortis Engine will probably stay around by virtue of the Coven Throne still existing, assuming it does.

Black Coach will probably get the chop, but then again, it can have a sealed coffin on the inside.

I mean The Black Coach is now a Nightgaunt unit isn't it? It surely will remain, at least in that form

I'm pretty sure we have a direwolf on the cover of the battle tome, but it could just as easily be some undead familiar, like what the Chamberlain has in Cursed City (unlikely though, since its beside the vampire lord and we've seen that model)

I think the Black Coach could return as a new concept for Vampires if they get it back.

I'd also fully expect dire wolves to remain, wolves/werewolves have always had a close association with classic vampires through the years and I don't foresee GW changing that. Heck if anything we might actually see an increase including things like skin-wolves or were-wolves or similar making it into full plastic models for the army.

 Overread wrote:
I think the Black Coach could return as a new concept for Vampires if they get it back.

I'd also fully expect dire wolves to remain, wolves/werewolves have always had a close association with classic vampires through the years and I don't foresee GW changing that. Heck if anything we might actually see an increase including things like skin-wolves or were-wolves or similar making it into full plastic models for the army.

Agreed Wolves - alive and undead are favoured Vampire elements. Strangely the werewolf element was hardly a thing in the Old World - we had the Children of Ulric and the Norse variety but the Strigori seemed to fulfill some of the traditional werewolf roles.

The new (bloodline?) of vampires is very heavily wolf focussed so I think you might be right - although we are just as likely to get a black coach pulled by Wolves...or a sled....

I heavily doubt we're going to get another new Black Coach like 3 years after it was remade.

Add a small extra sprue with a Soulblight specific driver, coffin, attendants and decor bits. Increase the price a bit, job done but I don't think they will it's a Nighthaunt thing now.

Billicus wrote:
Love that book cover, love the model range, but can't stop pronouncing it "Gravel-ords".

Call me a ghoul because I am loving it.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
I heavily doubt we're going to get another new Black Coach like 3 years after it was remade.

I don't mean a replacement sculpt but a sculpt (a coach) that is akin to it but for Vampires entirely. Since the Vampire force, so far, seems to be avoiding the spirits entirely as a theme. Of course this might just be a lull before we see a huge storm of enslaved vampire spirit monsters.

Maybe they could give it a warscroll for an alt build where one does not put on the extra spirits? Same kit, additional warscroll sort of thing. Were I to convert one that's how I'd do it.

Black coaches as a means to revive defeated vampires are a cool and unique idea, I hope they don't dump it but kind of feel they will.

 Overread wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
I heavily doubt we're going to get another new Black Coach like 3 years after it was remade.

I don't mean a replacement sculpt but a sculpt (a coach) that is akin to it but for Vampires entirely. Since the Vampire force, so far, seems to be avoiding the spirits entirely as a theme. Of course this might just be a lull before we see a huge storm of enslaved vampire spirit monsters.

The Coven Throne still has spirits surrounding it and I don't see that going away, plus LoN/Gravelords are a hodgepodge of different varieties of undead anyway, so the odd spirit here and there might not be too far out.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Maybe they could give it a warscroll for an alt build where one does not put on the extra spirits? Same kit, additional warscroll sort of thing. Were I to convert one that's how I'd do it.

Black coaches as a means to revive defeated vampires are a cool and unique idea, I hope they don't dump it but kind of feel they will.

Yeah, I found the idea of dumping the black coach odd, since its point is to transport a vampire, but then I looked at the current store page.
Despite the coffin still being there, the description just goes with a 'banished entity' and yammers on about spirits.

I kind of hate the current model anyway- too much spirit gak. If the coach was on the ground with actual horses, I'd like it a lot more. Also if it wasn't $123 for no apparent reason.

The current Black Coach comes on a 170mm oval base and is a good bit larger than the old Black Coach.

 Arbitrator wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
I heavily doubt we're going to get another new Black Coach like 3 years after it was remade.

I don't mean a replacement sculpt but a sculpt (a coach) that is akin to it but for Vampires entirely. Since the Vampire force, so far, seems to be avoiding the spirits entirely as a theme. Of course this might just be a lull before we see a huge storm of enslaved vampire spirit monsters.

The Coven Throne still has spirits surrounding it and I don't see that going away, plus LoN/Gravelords are a hodgepodge of different varieties of undead anyway, so the odd spirit here and there might not be too far out.

Does it have spirits surrounding?
I thought that was the other one. Mortis Engine?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/03/21/sunday-preview-the-call-of-the-wind/

LRL, Mortal Realms: Teclis and 4 new Broken Realms army sets next week.

Invidian Plaguehost (Maggotkin), Xintil War-magi (CoS), Mortevell’s Helcourt (FEC), and Horrek’s Dreadlance (OBR)

* Due to circumstances beyond our control, the pre-order date for the Shrine Luminor will be delayed in North America. If you live in Canada or the USA, keep an eye on Warhammer Community, and we’ll keep you posted about the new pre-order date for this kit as soon as we can confirm it.

 Ghaz wrote:
The current Black Coach comes on a 170mm oval base and is a good bit larger than the old Black Coach.

Spoiler:

At least it makes use of that large base size to prevent overhang, which would be extremely impractical during gameplay!

Danny76 wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
I heavily doubt we're going to get another new Black Coach like 3 years after it was remade.

I don't mean a replacement sculpt but a sculpt (a coach) that is akin to it but for Vampires entirely. Since the Vampire force, so far, seems to be avoiding the spirits entirely as a theme. Of course this might just be a lull before we see a huge storm of enslaved vampire spirit monsters.

The Coven Throne still has spirits surrounding it and I don't see that going away, plus LoN/Gravelords are a hodgepodge of different varieties of undead anyway, so the odd spirit here and there might not be too far out.

Does it have spirits surrounding?
I thought that was the other one. Mortis Engine?

They are about 90% the same. A few more spirits on mortis, a blood pot in the vampire one and who is on the model; vampire or necromancer. One difference can be how it's painted, the mortis is painted to empathize the spirits the vampire one less so.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DaveC wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/03/21/sunday-preview-the-call-of-the-wind/

LRL, Mortal Realms: Teclis and 4 new Broken Realms army sets next week.

Invidian Plaguehost (Maggotkin), Xintil War-magi (CoS), Mortevell’s Helcourt (FEC), and Horrek’s Dreadlance (OBR)

That Hurakan Windmage gives me Goku vibes riding that cloud.

That Nagash/Teclis face-off pic makes me laugh.

The sphinx looks utterly indifferent, Teclis (with the white outline around the feet) looks photoshopped on there, despite the fact that I know he's part of the model.

And the whole pose either looks like 'catch me, darling' as Teclis dives off, or Nagash is reciting Vogon poetry from his book and Teclis just wants to end it all.


Edit- also the something something Scroll Wizard... why is he wearing high heels? Where the heel is in the middle of the shoe? What?

Coven throne has the character lounging back on the throne underneath some flowing drapes and a skeleton figure piece with the blood cauldron and two additional vampires sitting next to it with their gowns spilling over the side.

Mortis engine has the necromancer standing beneath a larger bone spike 'crown' which has banshees flying around it, and the platform is enclosed by railing which incorporates a dais holding up a (actually really cool looking when you see it in person) giant spell tome.

What's the same is basically what they are on, which TBF is a good portion of the model's mass so to speak. The platform base and the swarm of spirits carrying it. The main base of the chariot's back gazebo portion is the same as well.

I hope the new Skeletons aren't bigger than the current ones. They also look too much like Grave Guard. Zombies are better but the roots need to go.

Just got myself tzeentch daemons so can't buy much but regent, box of sword dudes and teclis book to start with

New Lumineth look pretty sweet. Shame it is a bit tainted by the shadow of how they double-dipped the army release. Really like the bolt thrower, and the twins, and the terrain piece.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Shame it is a bit tainted by the shadow of how they double-dipped the army release.

Meh. It's no different than they did with the Stormcast, and it was kind of obvious with the first book only covering the Alarith Temple.

Voss wrote:
That Nagash/Teclis face-off pic makes me laugh.

The sphinx looks utterly indifferent, Teclis (with the white outline around the feet) looks photoshopped on there, despite the fact that I know he's part of the model.

And the whole pose either looks like 'catch me, darling' as Teclis dives off, or Nagash is reciting Vogon poetry from his book and Teclis just wants to end it all.

Well Teclics is such an rare case where there should be 2 different miniatures that are separately very cool looking but then end up being posed in just such a way that the coolness disappears. It is like someone wanted to make anti-Morathi figure at any cost.

Voss wrote:
Edit- also the something something Scroll Wizard... why is he wearing high heels? Where the heel is in the middle of the shoe? What?

Well fluff wise (from reveal stream way back) he is something of an purifier, mage that tries to heal the land itself from "corruption". As such he doesn't want to touch the earth directly unless he is contaminated.

Sotahullu wrote:

Voss wrote:
Edit- also the something something Scroll Wizard... why is he wearing high heels? Where the heel is in the middle of the shoe? What?

Well fluff wise (from reveal stream way back) he is something of an purifier, mage that tries to heal the land itself from "corruption". As such he doesn't want to touch the earth directly unless he is contaminated.

Those are japanese Ippon Geta:

I don't know what factions are left from warhammer fantasy other than Brettonia.

It would be funny if Karganath was like a 'brettonian' like centaur race of knights. Considering that they could worship like a centaur god and are knightly hunters which would be pretty interesting.

Cause the civilization he was looking at looked sufficiently advanced.

They're already redone Bretonnia. They're called Flesh-eater Courts...

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
New Lumineth look pretty sweet. Shame it is a bit tainted by the shadow of how they double-dipped the army release. Really like the bolt thrower, and the twins, and the terrain piece.

Would have preferred no 2nd wave at all? As no way ever 30 or so kits at once would have been coming. Too much competing each other.

Besldes with app you don't need new battletome.

Voss wrote:
That Nagash/Teclis face-off pic makes me laugh.

The sphinx looks utterly indifferent, Teclis (with the white outline around the feet) looks photoshopped on there, despite the fact that I know he's part of the model.

And the whole pose either looks like 'catch me, darling' as Teclis dives off, or Nagash is reciting Vogon poetry from his book and Teclis just wants to end it all.


Edit- also the something something Scroll Wizard... why is he wearing high heels? Where the heel is in the middle of the shoe? What?

a genuine medieval functional thing called patens or chopines which were extended wooden soles to keep the shoe out of the mud, which grew to crazy 'you need help to walk or a stick' sizes, some had the pillar in the middle instead of toe and heel or the whole way across the sole

just the sort of thing an elf wizard might use

Yeah don't forget a lot of ancient roadways and such were rather filthy. Even if they were hard stone or packed earth they'd have a lot of animal (and in some regions and cultures human) waste on them.

So the idea of rising above was well established. In the roads of Pompei you can see big stepping stones that were used to allow people to walk from the pavement (sidewalk) across the road without stepping in the road itself; whilst at the same time still allowing horses and carts to pass by.

Yes, yes, thanks all for the shallow lectures on various types of footwear. I'm sure it would be very relevant if he weren't also wearing heavy, calf-high boots, same as the ballista crew, swordsmen and the other S-word nounverb character (with the wrench and sword), and elf Goku.

are you mad the shoe thingies aren't actually made up? ok.

The vampire release is pretty impressive. So far, everything that's been shown has been an update of an older kit, aside from Kritza.

Zombies, skeletons, vampire lord, wight king, blood knights... This makes me think that we're really only seeing the beginning, and that there's plenty more to come.

It could be that GW is planning on updating other kits, like the corpse carts an grave guard. Time will tell. Knowing their trend, I'd expect more all-new kits instead, and I look forward to seeing what they are.

Just going by the cover of the battletome, I'd expect dire wolves of some sort, and possibly even a blood dragon model. The dragon on the battletome doesn't have the same shape or look as the current zombie dragons, so we'll see.

Meanwhile, things like the zombie dragon, coven throne, necromancer, and many others were released near the end of WFB when vampires got a big update back then. They're decently modern kits, a little older than the Dark Eldar kits, IIRC. That said, they were designed during a different time, well before AoS, like poses that fit together on ranked square bases and such.

I guess we'll see what happens. Either way, I'm thrilled, I want to make a skeleton army lead by a vampire lord and wight king, themed in the Realm of Shadow!

Huh - I hadn't noticed that the Roo Riders seem to have sensible, single-string bows, while the Bolt Thrower reverts to the non-functional three-strings-at-one-end design.

Silly Elves...

Voss wrote:
Yes, yes, thanks all for the shallow lectures on various types of footwear. I'm sure it would be very relevant if he weren't also wearing heavy, calf-high boots, same as the ballista crew, swordsmen and the other S-word nounverb character (with the wrench and sword), and elf Goku.

They talked about it as being part of the role for that type of priest. They're purifying the areas tainted most by Nagash's death magic or Chaos corruption.

It's why he's got brushes and paper as well as the magic ink, he's basically tagging the Realms with lightmagics.

 Arbitrator wrote:

Vampires have mortal attendants and whole populations of living under their thrall, so I figure Necromancers will likely be baked in.

I'd love to see a subfaction and maybe a warscroll within the tome that utilizes a few human units (Freeguild militia, crossbows, great swords etc) so I can finally have my big daddy Vlad era Sylvanian themed army.

tneva82 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
New Lumineth look pretty sweet. Shame it is a bit tainted by the shadow of how they double-dipped the army release. Really like the bolt thrower, and the twins, and the terrain piece.

Would have preferred no 2nd wave at all? As no way ever 30 or so kits at once would have been coming. Too much competing each other.

Besldes with app you don't need new battletome.

I think it would have been (in customer service terms) better if the first wave was delayed until the second was ready, even if that meant until now. To me it looks like GW gave people who liked Lumineth just enough time to build an army out of wave one, while being under the reasonable impression that the army would not be expanded for a couple years. Now someone who built 2k of wave one can be double-dipped to buy 1k of wave two, instead of 1k from each wave. I doubt it was planned out like an evil scheme, but I also doubt no one had an inkling as to what they were doing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

drbored wrote:
The vampire release is pretty impressive. So far, everything that's been shown has been an update of an older kit, aside from Kritza.

Zombies, skeletons, vampire lord, wight king, blood knights... This makes me think that we're really only seeing the beginning, and that there's plenty more to come.

It could be that GW is planning on updating other kits, like the corpse carts an grave guard. Time will tell. Knowing their trend, I'd expect more all-new kits instead, and I look forward to seeing what they are.

Just going by the cover of the battletome, I'd expect dire wolves of some sort, and possibly even a blood dragon model. The dragon on the battletome doesn't have the same shape or look as the current zombie dragons, so we'll see.

Meanwhile, things like the zombie dragon, coven throne, necromancer, and many others were released near the end of WFB when vampires got a big update back then. They're decently modern kits, a little older than the Dark Eldar kits, IIRC. That said, they were designed during a different time, well before AoS, like poses that fit together on ranked square bases and such.

I guess we'll see what happens. Either way, I'm thrilled, I want to make a skeleton army lead by a vampire lord and wight king, themed in the Realm of Shadow!

I wonder if this is the start of seeing AoS designed after they made the decision to bring back the Old World. After all, some square bases and they will be ready to go...

Are there any spare torsos and heads in current AoS kits? I'd rather build those blood knights to be all male, if possible.

No.You might get a spare head if you're lucky, but the bodies and torsos are keyed together 90% of time.

That's unfortunate. Here's hoping that bitzshops will be splitting a few of those kits.

 GrosseSax wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:

Vampires have mortal attendants and whole populations of living under their thrall, so I figure Necromancers will likely be baked in.

I'd love to see a subfaction and maybe a warscroll within the tome that utilizes a few human units (Freeguild militia, crossbows, great swords etc) so I can finally have my big daddy Vlad era Sylvanian themed army.

Mortals loyal to Nagash get mentioned enough that I'd love to see a living Death army, but I recall Phil Kelly saying that wouldn't happen. I could see it in the far off future, but only after Freeguild have been revamped.

The thing is the way AoS is built pretty much every race is in every realm (even Eightpoints). So you can have themed models for pretty much any of the factions.

GW will never create them all, but conversions are ripe ground. When GW revamps the human model lines you might well find ways to convert and paint them to create a "death human" army. Even something as simple as a paint scheme and then a few units swaps - eg using zombies instead of swordsmen as your basic warriors, can create a strong theme within an army.

I do find it amusing that after gog knows how many years of AoS, we're still no closer to them updating basic humans. I think they just can't think of an original enough of a twist to give them.

Apparent UK prices for the Lumineth stuff:

The shrine is remarkably cheaper than I expected.

I Might have to get the Shrine, just as terrain for my table. It's an incredible looking model.

 Kanluwen wrote:
The shrine is remarkably cheaper than I expected.

Yeah, me too. Very surprised.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
I do find it amusing that after gog knows how many years of AoS, we're still no closer to them updating basic humans. I think they just can't think of an original enough of a twist to give them.

The humans in Cursed City are pretty cool. Judging by what they've done with them here I reckon, if they really wanted to, they could really be something special. I kinda get the impression though that, for now, AoS's narrative simply isn't driven by basic humans.

 Arbitrator wrote:

 GrosseSax wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:

Vampires have mortal attendants and whole populations of living under their thrall, so I figure Necromancers will likely be baked in.

I'd love to see a subfaction and maybe a warscroll within the tome that utilizes a few human units (Freeguild militia, crossbows, great swords etc) so I can finally have my big daddy Vlad era Sylvanian themed army.

Mortals loyal to Nagash get mentioned enough that I'd love to see a living Death army, but I recall Phil Kelly saying that wouldn't happen. I could see it in the far off future, but only after Freeguild have been revamped.

If anything I could maybe see it functioning like the Cities of Sigmar do now.

Either have a City in Shyish able to take 1 in X 'Death' units or a faction able to take 1 in X Cities of Sigmar units as 'retainers'

God I need everything from this newest wave of Lumineth, it’s all so beautiful! But... my wallet... *sigh*

Definitely getting the terrain this time though, freaking awesome.

Damn, I hope those prices are not accurate, should be getting the prices from a retailer later so will be able to confirm.

 ingtaer wrote:
Damn, I hope those prices are not accurate, should be getting the prices from a retailer later so will be able to confirm.

Comparing them to the current range they seem to be consistent. A pricey army this one haha.

The only outliers seem to be the Temple of Wind cavalry and the mounted hero.

 Kanluwen wrote:
The only outliers seem to be the Temple of Wind cavalry and the mounted hero.

The banner bro is also an odd price to the rest but I guess he’s an odd scale being a small champ with a big banner.

Actually GW has been pushing cavalry up to the £40s for a while - new Exalted seekers are also in that bracket. Granted they ARE bigger than the original seekers, but it seems to be where GW wants to put cavalry right now. I'm actually pleased that the prices aren't higher than they are, they are expensive but in line with GW's recent offerings (Darn it now I'm happy that prices aren't rising but are still higher than ideal).


The Shrine is indeed a lot cheaper, even for overseas (far as I know most of GW's terrain and Endless Spells are overseas produced)

The Hurrakan are strange, IMO, in that they look to be Dawnrider/Deathrider sized but priced in a bracket I cannot find a match for.

Reckon there’ll be an article tonight for the Lumineth? I’m a little foamy for info.

 Kanluwen wrote:
The Hurrakan are strange, IMO, in that they look to be Dawnrider/Deathrider sized but priced in a bracket I cannot find a match for.

They’re the same UK price as the Dawnriders are.

 Kanluwen wrote:
The Hurrakan are strange, IMO, in that they look to be Dawnrider/Deathrider sized but priced in a bracket I cannot find a match for.

Sickblades are £42 so perhaps £39.5 is GW reacting to some pressure that they were putting mount prices a little high?

Theres no chance of it happening, but I'd be all over a Cities of Sigmar version of warcry. Different human groups from every realm would be so so cool

Typo? Or　named chars uberlance has just 1 attack? Model doesn't exactly look he should be better as shooter than melee like these　stats suggests

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/03/22/the-chosen-heroes-of-tyrion-and-teclis-are-here-and-their-weapons-are-ridiculously-good/

Lyrior’s Lance only getting 1 attack in melee must by a typo right? Haha. Or maybe he gets an ability or something... right?

the pose on these two gymnasts is absolutely terrible. Sad since the one on the bottom is a really cool model (though separating them won't be too difficult)

 streetsamurai wrote:
the pose on these two gymnasts is absolutely terrible. Sad since the one on the bottom is a really cool model (though separating them won't be too difficult)

You’d only need to shave the foot connection off.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/03/22/the-chosen-heroes-of-tyrion-and-teclis-are-here-and-their-weapons-are-ridiculously-good/

Lyrior’s Lance only getting 1 attack in melee must by a typo right? Haha. Or maybe he gets an ability or something... right?

Betting his mount is kinda mean.

Also, he gets to fire his lance like a laser! PEWPEW!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
The Hurrakan are strange, IMO, in that they look to be Dawnrider/Deathrider sized but priced in a bracket I cannot find a match for.

They’re the same UK price as the Dawnriders are.

Well that's annoying! I did a sort by High->Low and the Dawnriders didn't even show up in there.

That's good to know though. $60 isn't too bad.

 Tiberius501 wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
the pose on these two gymnasts is absolutely terrible. Sad since the one on the bottom is a really cool model (though separating them won't be too difficult)

You’d only need to shave the foot connection off.

Actually, I was thinking if I could make the mage ride a cloud above the warrior. Then they could share a base (I just hope its 40mm+ to make it work) and it would actually look cool.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/03/22/the-chosen-heroes-of-tyrion-and-teclis-are-here-and-their-weapons-are-ridiculously-good/

Lyrior’s Lance only getting 1 attack in melee must by a typo right? Haha. Or maybe he gets an ability or something... right?

More attacks on charge mayhap. More something on charge is fairly typical for lance guys

 ImAGeek wrote:
Apparent UK prices for the Lumineth stuff:

Sidenote, USD prices seem to be:
$60 for the mounted archers, swordmasters, and scenery.
$55 for the mounted hero and the spirit of the wind.
$50 for the ballista
$50 for the Agents of Teclis+Tyrion
$35 for the banner+mage heroes.
$30 for the two clamshell heroes(Loreseeker and Calligrave)

Does anyone have the UK prices for the broken realms boxes?

Just the Euro prices

Hard to predict them now from the euro prices. The 50 euro cavalry box is £39.50 but i would not expect the 65 euro broken realms to be cheaper than 55£ which is what most of the last ones were.
The 40 euro ballista is 31.50£ too. i guess new price increases cos of brexit for everyone else.

Monday vampire:

I had to ask myself, is the long base really necessary just to accommodate super long robe tails? My answer was immediate, visceral and instinctive, resonating with absolute certainty: yes, it is entirely necessary.

Fantastic model. I love how inhumanely gaunt she is. And I love how she isn't encrusted with extra details on every surface. The move by GW back towards it being ok for models to have plain parts is a big plus for me.

Am I the only one getting strong Nosferatu vibes? First Ratticus, now her. I mean, I'm all for it.


Also, is that a wolf or a rat on the back of her cowl? They look the same and both relate to the Cursed City vampires.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I had to ask myself, is the long base really necessary just to accommodate super long robe tails? My answer was immediate, visceral and instinctive, resonating with absolute certainty: yes, it is entirely necessary.

Fantastic model. I love how inhumanely gaunt she is. And I love how she isn't encrusted with extra details on every surface. The move by GW back towards it being ok for models to have plain parts is a big plus for me.

Which is a little ironic when the most fitting model to have overdesigned tripe hanging off every orifice would be a noble.

If you read her fluff, not so much.

I am loving the more refined aesthetic the new Soulblight models have. They are updated in terms of sculpt, but still fit the vibe of the old VC models.

Going to be difficult not to go ape poop crazy buying these.

Hurakan article
I really, really like the hit and run aspects going on here.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/03/23/find-out-what-makes-the-hurakan-faster-than-a-speeding-arrow/

Looks like some fun tactical rules there, none of it seems annoying for the opponent for the most part which is nice to see. Also a bit of healing in a spell which is nice.

I look forward to seeing the elves be not only killier than Hedonites but also faster and cheaper.

 Mothman wrote:
I look forward to seeing the elves be not only killier than Hedonites but also faster and cheaper.

Well taking those are reducing the sentinel count. Think people are happy less 80 sentinel armies(the most competive lumineth list) they see.

I as looking at the preview for the Cursed City stuff and I noticed something:

This character is clearly a part of the Wanderers faction (aka not Wood Elves) but on her card she is listed as a Sylvaneth.

Coincidence? Oversight? or something more?

She's an exiled Kurnothi, not a Wanderer.

 Platuan4th wrote:
She's an exiled Kurnothi, not a Wanderer.

Interesting, The fact that she looks just like the old Wanderers and almost nothing like the other Kurnothi models makes me wonder if the old Wanderers might get Squated.

 KingGarland wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:
She's an exiled Kurnothi, not a Wanderer.

Interesting, The fact that she looks just like the old Wanderers and almost nothing like the other Kurnothi models makes me wonder if the old Wanderers might get Squated.

Those antlers, they most likely ain't a part of a headdress...

I don't believe we've seen enough fluff to say what all of the Kurnothi look like.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/03/23/find-out-what-makes-the-hurakan-faster-than-a-speeding-arrow/

Looks like some fun tactical rules there, none of it seems annoying for the opponent for the most part which is nice to see. Also a bit of healing in a spell which is nice.

Brilliant rules design, continuing a trend of Lumineth being both thematic and artfully practical with their mechanics. I remain very impressed with their allegiance abilities.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mothman wrote:
I look forward to seeing the elves be not only killier than Hedonites but also faster and cheaper.

The free keeper of secrets they can reliably summon turn 1 would disagree.

Just realized that "Hurakan" is a trademarked mispelling for "Huracán" which is spanish for "Hurricane".

Yet again, "Deadwalker Zombies"...

GW trademarketing surely is a curious beast.

 CMLR wrote:
Just realized that "Hurakan" is a trademarked mispelling for "Huracán" which is spanish for "Hurricane".

It's also an alternate anglicized spelling of the Mayan god of the wind, storms, and fire. Considering the Harukan spirits are foxes(traditionally connected to fire in various mythologies), that's more likely the connection they were going for.

 Ghaz wrote:

 KingGarland wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:
She's an exiled Kurnothi, not a Wanderer.

Interesting, The fact that she looks just like the old Wanderers and almost nothing like the other Kurnothi models makes me wonder if the old Wanderers might get Squated.

Those antlers, they most likely ain't a part of a headdress...

I don't believe we've seen enough fluff to say what all of the Kurnothi look like.

Indeed there’s lots more to Kurnothi to know and see.

Though, the antlers definitely are part of a headdress.
Unless they grow from one spot on the front of her head, covered with a gem..

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The free keeper of secrets they can reliably summon turn 1 would disagree.

Seeing tha' requires enemy going first and then shooting/charging in enough that _12_ separate units gets damaged(and any player who knows slaanesh will focus rather than spread damage. Teclis for example won't use　searing light) and flat out can't if slaanesh goes first disagrees.

Knowing AoS the latter is more likely.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/03/24/when-nagash-comes-knocking-theres-no-better-bodyguard-than-a-vanari-bladelord/

Not 100% sold on these dudes, but they seem cool. As much as auto hitting is incredible, only 1 attack each of 1 dmg, and seemingly the inability to deal mortals with sun metal, the small amount of quality attacks may not be enough to keep up with how good the Wardens are. I assume they’ll get other special rules though, they seem good vs hordes too, and I’m probably wrong about the perfect strike option.

Either way they seem cool.

Dunno, an attack per enemy within 2” could make for a decent mincer unit, despite being D1.

Because it seems you don’t count each enemy only once when counting up the unit’s attacks. So if I have say 5, and each has 3 enemy models within 2” (could quite easily be more), that’s 3 attacks each, regardless of how many of mine are within 2” of the same enemy model.

I think I explained that right?

Certainly you’re gonna give my Gobbos a right proper blending, as there’s 60 of the buggers in my unit. If I pack them in to maximise my own attacks, you’ll be getting lots of attacks against me. And given Lumineth can resolve two units attacks one after the other, it could be pretty solid kicking, potentially neutering even the largest of chaff units sent against them.

Sure, they’re going to struggle against small, elite units (such as Necropolis stalkers), but horses for courses I guess?

I'm feeling like I am taking crazypills, but the RAW here makes it seem like even casting friendly spells or endless spell abilities would have to pass the 4+...right?

Yes,

but only if you choose to roll the dice, however whether to roll the dice is optional (you can roll a dice)

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Dunno, an attack per enemy within 2” could make for a decent mincer unit, despite being D1.

Because it seems you don’t count each enemy only once when counting up the unit’s attacks. So if I have say 5, and each has 3 enemy models within 2” (could quite easily be more), that’s 3 attacks each, regardless of how many of mine are within 2” of the same enemy model.

I think I explained that right?

Certainly you’re gonna give my Gobbos a right proper blending, as there’s 60 of the buggers in my unit. If I pack them in to maximise my own attacks, you’ll be getting lots of attacks against me. And given Lumineth can resolve two units attacks one after the other, it could be pretty solid kicking, potentially neutering even the largest of chaff units sent against them.

Sure, they’re going to struggle against small, elite units (such as Necropolis stalkers), but horses for courses I guess?

I feel like their intention though was to allow them to fight small elite units too with their Perfect Strike attacks. But 1 attack of 1 dmg seems really crap for that, regardless of auto hitting. The horde killing option seems good though, I agree. But atm I’d rather the Stoneguard.

 Kanluwen wrote:

I'm feeling like I am taking crazypills, but the RAW here makes it seem like even casting friendly spells or endless spell abilities would have to pass the 4+...right?

It says that you „can“ roll a dice, and that the effect only applies „if“ you do so.

I think it will be your choice whether to try and ignore friendly spells.

They could be very situationally handy, as the auto/2+/-2 could be used to polish off chunky enemies you really need dead that turn.

Not being terribly familiar with Lumineth, I’m not sure how often that would come up. Nor whether there are spells or other methods to buff their Damage. Even adding +1 to the Damage would make them something to be feared.

Bit of a shame they can’t vary the stance within the unit, but hey ho, we literally can’t have everything!

I mean, I say we, they’re not my army, but you get what I mean.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oooooh.....Sunmetal Side Thought.

Could be they’re going the Ossiarch route, and defining Sunmetal as an army special rule, rather than tacking it on unit by unit?

From the Warhammer TV Facebook page:

I love how they have to keep telling us things like this, because people cannot be bothered to do a cursory search for themselves.

In summary, if you paid full price to be a beta tester you now get to pay full price again to get just the missing half of the final release, or alternatively you can pay full price for the whole final release. This is all good and logical and people who don't get it are dum dums.

Well beats not getting 2nd wave or 1st wave being just models and no book. Which were only 2 alternatives.

Also unit rules are on gw site and app for free. Just saying.

As for blademaster hoping for cheap price. Warden level　and need something super amazing to be worth it

Unfortunately I want the story from Broken Realms and I want the battletome for it all being in 1 place, because I am an idiot. At least they’re only $30AU each in the app.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
In summary, if you paid full price to be a beta tester you now get to pay full price again to get just the missing half of the final release, or alternatively you can pay full price for the whole final release. This is all good and logical and people who don't get it are dum dums.

It's no different than what they did with the multiple Stormcast Eternal battletomes. Plus I believe the Lumineth still have a couple of aelementiri temples to cover before the army list is 'complete'.

Tiberius501 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Dunno, an attack per enemy within 2” could make for a decent mincer unit, despite being D1.

Because it seems you don’t count each enemy only once when counting up the unit’s attacks. So if I have say 5, and each has 3 enemy models within 2” (could quite easily be more), that’s 3 attacks each, regardless of how many of mine are within 2” of the same enemy model.

I think I explained that right?

Certainly you’re gonna give my Gobbos a right proper blending, as there’s 60 of the buggers in my unit. If I pack them in to maximise my own attacks, you’ll be getting lots of attacks against me. And given Lumineth can resolve two units attacks one after the other, it could be pretty solid kicking, potentially neutering even the largest of chaff units sent against them.

Sure, they’re going to struggle against small, elite units (such as Necropolis stalkers), but horses for courses I guess?

I feel like their intention though was to allow them to fight small elite units too with their Perfect Strike attacks. But 1 attack of 1 dmg seems really crap for that, regardless of auto hitting. The horde killing option seems good though, I agree. But atm I’d rather the Stoneguard.

It’s also -2 to saves which is pretty significant. It does need a way to boost damage against multi-wound armoured dudes though.

Ghaz wrote: Plus I believe the Lumineth still have a couple of aelementiri temples to cover before the army list is 'complete'.

Am I the only one that keeps seeing “alimentary” there?
No?
Just me and my dyslexia then…

5 of them is only capable of doing max 5dmg to elite units, which seems quite bizarre if they’re, themselves, an elite unit. Other rules may change this, but yeah it’s not looking so good, even with auto-hits and -2 Rend.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
5 of them is only capable of doing max 5dmg to elite units, which seems quite bizarre if they’re, themselves, an elite unit. Other rules may change this, but yeah it’s not looking so good, even with auto-hits and -2 Rend.

Well unless they have very good defensive rule they ought to be quite cheap. 100 pts for 5 no way. So max 5 if you field at minimum.

Though lrl is specialist army. These　clearly are meant to be　horde killers. Dawnriders suck the moment they face non-1w infantry

Which makes these　rather lousy money/point ratio. Not that uncommon with gw though. Flayed ones　likely same too and those for　real damage are 20 blops...

 Mr_Rose wrote:

Ghaz wrote: Plus I believe the Lumineth still have a couple of aelementiri temples to cover before the army list is 'complete'.

Am I the only one that keeps seeing “alimentary” there?
No?
Just me and my dyslexia then…

I'm too used to GW adding in extra letters to misspell words at this point. Its annoying and stupid, but I find it predictable. An 'e' will get an 'a' stuffed on to make it more 'olde AEnglish' and we've got the l->r in a tacky sort of Japanglish. The rest is just irrelevant clutter around the root and can simply be discarded.

Once it becomes familiar, I automatically replace it with a real English word, like I'm reading a foreign language. Lumenith is just GW for 'high' and aelementiri is auto-translated to elemental, every time. Its like the 'whatever tempests' in the current imperial guard- I just skip to tempest and fill in 'storm trooper.' Its not worth trying to juggle their garbage.


---
@Ghaz- doing it with the stormcast too makes it worse, not OK.

TheGoodGerman wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

I'm feeling like I am taking crazypills, but the RAW here makes it seem like even casting friendly spells or endless spell abilities would have to pass the 4+...right?

It says that you „can“ roll a dice, and that the effect only applies „if“ you do so.

I think it will be your choice whether to try and ignore friendly spells.

That's literally what can means always check if it says can. With ogres for example you can roll for mw on charge. Don't　have to(say charging unit with protection of nagash spell and don'w want them to teleport to safety). Or with teclis negate spell effect aura. Say cogs is cast by enemy. You can either try to negate spell and bounce of mw. Or accept speed buff

tneva82 wrote:

Also unit rules are on gw site and app for free. Just saying.

great, let me know once they also have new spell lores, warscroll battalions and command abilities/artifacts too. As it is, anyone who bought the original tome LESS than a year ago can now either stick to using their book + only the units, but not the everything else from the new temples, or buy either a full battletome (as the one they got sold few months ago was apparently a demo version) or a campaign book that they may not otherwise care for.
The customer-friendly nature of this move makes Bank of America and EA blush.

I'm just glad they're keeping up the tradition of giving every LRL unit a bajillion special rules, and at least one that ignores the normal rules of the game, even if the effect isn't actually very powerful.

"Hey guys, what rule haven't we let LRL ignore yet?"

"Having to wound?"

"Nope, Sentinels."

"Having to roll to cast?"

"Nope, teclis."

"Armor saves?"

"Nope, that's the whole army with all those MWs."

"Battleshock?"

"Nah, we have that sad mage who does that, and even lets you project your modifiers onto the opponent for good measure."

"Armor save modifiers?"

"Nope, already have one character that does that naturally, and a spell you can use to put it on anyone."

"Ignoring having to move closer with pile-in?"

"Nope, we just gave that one to the roo-riders."

"Uh...having to roll to hit?"

"You're a genius, make it so!"

And what a useless nightmare it's going to be to count how many attacks you get on the alternate profile, for very little effect.

the alternate attack is something stormcast axe-paladins already have, and yes, it does take a while in case of large enemy mobs (and that's the best way to use it after all)

I never gave much credit to the Battleshock Lumineth mage until she killed 15 Mighty Skullcrushers because the last elf of a full unit always survived and I could not pay 2CP for battleshock inmunity thanks to teclis autocasting Eclipse.

Interactive gameplay.

TheGoodGerman wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

I'm feeling like I am taking crazypills, but the RAW here makes it seem like even casting friendly spells or endless spell abilities would have to pass the 4+...right?

It says that you „can“ roll a dice, and that the effect only applies „if“ you do so.

I think it will be your choice whether to try and ignore friendly spells.

Exactly. "If" is a used to create a conditional in the English language. RAW means that you can choose to roll it or not.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/03/24/when-nagash-comes-knocking-theres-no-better-bodyguard-than-a-vanari-bladelord/

Not 100% sold on these dudes, but they seem cool. As much as auto hitting is incredible, only 1 attack each of 1 dmg, and seemingly the inability to deal mortals with sun metal, the small amount of quality attacks may not be enough to keep up with how good the Wardens are. I assume they’ll get other special rules though, they seem good vs hordes too, and I’m probably wrong about the perfect strike option.

Either way they seem cool.

It is pretty good. The average damage output of most infantry, even high-offense ones, is almost always below 1. A warden with their buff spell up is only doing an average of 0.833 damage to a 4+ save, and the vast majority of that is from 5+ attack rolls so extremely inconsistent (and without the spell they are sitting at 0.58). A bladelord may only be doing 0.69 average damage but you can reasonably count on the actual damage being very close to that average almost all the time. As any veteran Warhammer player will tell you, consistency often trumps potential. This is one of the few units where a player can know with reasonable accuracy how much damage they will deal before the dice are rolled.

Simple version for us to remember as a guide when playing with/against bladelords; you can count on every 3 bladelords getting 2 damage past your save.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cronch wrote:
the alternate attack is something stormcast axe-paladins already have, and yes, it does take a while in case of large enemy mobs (and that's the best way to use it after all)

TBF it is a lot of fun though.

I really like LRL getting more stuff, and the bladelords seem like a better objectively compared to the dawnriders. Who feel like trash in certain situations. Especially against anything more than 1 wound. Few game's ive had with them they just are killed relatively easily while wardens have stuck to objectives alot better.

A lot of these units are welcome changes.

yukishiro1 wrote:
I'm just glad they're keeping up the tradition of giving every LRL unit a bajillion special rules, and at least one that ignores the normal rules of the game, even if the effect isn't actually very powerful.

"Hey guys, what rule haven't we let LRL ignore yet?"

"Having to wound?"

"Nope, Sentinels."

"Having to roll to cast?"

"Nope, teclis."

"Armor saves?"

"Nope, that's the whole army with all those MWs."

"Battleshock?"

"Nah, we have that sad mage who does that, and even lets you project your modifiers onto the opponent for good measure."

"Armor save modifiers?"

"Nope, already have one character that does that naturally, and a spell you can use to put it on anyone."

"Ignoring having to move closer with pile-in?"

"Nope, we just gave that one to the roo-riders."

"Uh...having to roll to hit?"

"You're a genius, make it so!"

And what a useless nightmare it's going to be to count how many attacks you get on the alternate profile, for very little effect.

Some folk never experienced High Elves back in Fantasy and it shows.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
I'm just glad they're keeping up the tradition of giving every LRL unit a bajillion special rules, and at least one that ignores the normal rules of the game, even if the effect isn't actually very powerful.

"Hey guys, what rule haven't we let LRL ignore yet?"

"Having to wound?"

"Nope, Sentinels."

"Having to roll to cast?"

"Nope, teclis."

"Armor saves?"

"Nope, that's the whole army with all those MWs."

"Battleshock?"

"Nah, we have that sad mage who does that, and even lets you project your modifiers onto the opponent for good measure."

"Armor save modifiers?"

"Nope, already have one character that does that naturally, and a spell you can use to put it on anyone."

"Ignoring having to move closer with pile-in?"

"Nope, we just gave that one to the roo-riders."

"Uh...having to roll to hit?"

"You're a genius, make it so!"

And what a useless nightmare it's going to be to count how many attacks you get on the alternate profile, for very little effect.

Some folk never experienced High Elves back in Fantasy and it shows.

Either way this doesn't sound like a lot of fun to play against. Removing the interaction from your opponents isn't a great way to design a game system. I'm getting flashbacks to 5th ed Grey Knights where I could do very little but watch my stuff get deleted.

To the contrary, understanding how to counterplay against Lumineth and what to do to mitigate their abilities is a big factor. There are a LOT of things you can do to screw with their allegiance benefits if you know what you are doing.

If you don't play a ton of games, there is basically never a reason to buy a new faction's first battle-tome/codex. Unless you don't care about buying another very soon. I think thats the take away.

Why no leaks? I know there’ll be reviews in a couple of days but... where the leaks?!

Unauthorized leaks tend to happen on friday. Check　calendar

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
If you don't play a ton of games, there is basically never a reason to buy a new faction's first battle-tome/codex. Unless you don't care about buying another very soon. I think thats the take away.

Not quite true though. Dark Eldar had the same book for multiple editions. Tau were fairly stable through most of 3rd ed. Tyranids were stable in 2nd ed.

The only cases of 1 Year Redundancy seem to be Imperial Knights, Lumineth and hilariously Space Marines (who got their x.5 updated book toward the end of 7th and then their new book almost immediately in 8th!)

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
If you don't play a ton of games, there is basically never a reason to buy a new faction's first battle-tome/codex. Unless you don't care about buying another very soon. I think thats the take away.

Not quite true though. Dark Eldar had the same book for multiple editions. Tau were fairly stable through most of 3rd ed. Tyranids were stable in 2nd ed.

The only cases of 1 Year Redundancy seem to be Imperial Knights, Lumineth and hilariously Space Marines (who got their x.5 updated book toward the end of 7th and then their new book almost immediately in 8th!)

Don't forget that then they had a second 8ndEd Codex soon after, and then after that the 9thEd Codex

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
To the contrary, understanding how to counterplay against Lumineth and what to do to mitigate their abilities is a big factor. There are a LOT of things you can do to screw with their allegiance benefits if you know what you are doing.

I'd love to agree more, but with books being all over the place power wise currently it's a bit of a feel bad. The level of LRL rules makes for a very feels bad experience. SoB also can be oppressive but they don't have access to non LoS nuking archers and arguably the best magic user to tank up your dudes/spam out debuffs and MW's makes LRL very unfun to play against as is, the new units I doubt will enhance that experience.

Such a shame since I adore my gloomspite but LRL are supremely unfun to play against.

Feels bad is Sentinels MW sniping your heroes from 30" away no line of sight, or Slaanesh summoning a free KoS every round. This is just a battlefield puzzle to solve.

If they are running Teclis; he is broken. Totally overpowered and there is nothing your army can do about it. Which yeah, really feels bad and really sucks. Best advice is load up on the mangeler squigs and fanatics, or squig artillery if you can.

Gir Spirit Bane wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
To the contrary, understanding how to counterplay against Lumineth and what to do to mitigate their abilities is a big factor. There are a LOT of things you can do to screw with their allegiance benefits if you know what you are doing.

I'd love to agree more, but with books being all over the place power wise currently it's a bit of a feel bad. The level of LRL rules makes for a very feels bad experience. SoB also can be oppressive but they don't have access to non LoS nuking archers and arguably the best magic user to tank up your dudes/spam out debuffs and MW's makes LRL very unfun to play against as is, the new units I doubt will enhance that experience.

Such a shame since I adore my gloomspite but LRL are supremely unfun to play against.

If lumineth wants new units he either gives up teclis or archers. 20 warden, 20 archers, calthallar, bat, spell portal, teclis. 1500. 20 teclis ain't nothing. Frankly any list with teclis is already givlng up handicap. Either way doesn't leave much room then to new units. And 20 archers is 60 less than tough lumineth list

Wait am I alone in not having Teclis? I just saw him as an expensive model, and a "unnecessary" model challenge.

Oh well, I wonder if people take AOS nearly as seriously as 40k. Cause from what I've played (the three games I have). Seems like most people do not treat this super competitively and they don't take special characters as often?

If you want best list to try win tournament it's1-2 calthallar, 40 pikes, 70-80 sentilel, Battalion, spellportal

tneva82 wrote:
If you want best list to try win tournament it's1-2 calthallar, 40 pikes, 70-80 sentilel, Battalion, spellportal

Nah, waaaaaay too vulnerable to alpha strike.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Wait am I alone in not having Teclis? I just saw him as an expensive model, and a "unnecessary" model challenge.

Oh well, I wonder if people take AOS nearly as seriously as 40k. Cause from what I've played (the three games I have). Seems like most people do not treat this super competitively and they don't take special characters as often?

Depends on the power level of the character and its relative comparison to the other units in an army. Kroak is so broken do to low points cost that he is always seeing the table. Teclis is ridiculous as well, but LRL has other stupidly good stuff that he isn't an auto take. Then there are the garbage tier characters like Alarrielle who are just too expensive/bad to routinely justify. Although, I love the model, so I enjoy taking her in my Sylvaneth games.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
If you don't play a ton of games, there is basically never a reason to buy a new faction's first battle-tome/codex. Unless you don't care about buying another very soon. I think thats the take away.

Not quite true though. Dark Eldar had the same book for multiple editions. Tau were fairly stable through most of 3rd ed. Tyranids were stable in 2nd ed.

The only cases of 1 Year Redundancy seem to be Imperial Knights, Lumineth and hilariously Space Marines (who got their x.5 updated book toward the end of 7th and then their new book almost immediately in 8th!)

My statement is in regards to GW in it's current business model, and completely new factions (those who have never had a book before).