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 Kanluwen wrote:

I'm feeling like I am taking crazypills, but the RAW here makes it seem like even casting friendly spells or endless spell abilities would have to pass the 4+...right?

It says that you „can“ roll a dice, and that the effect only applies „if“ you do so.

I think it will be your choice whether to try and ignore friendly spells.

They could be very situationally handy, as the auto/2+/-2 could be used to polish off chunky enemies you really need dead that turn.

Not being terribly familiar with Lumineth, I’m not sure how often that would come up. Nor whether there are spells or other methods to buff their Damage. Even adding +1 to the Damage would make them something to be feared.

Bit of a shame they can’t vary the stance within the unit, but hey ho, we literally can’t have everything!

I mean, I say we, they’re not my army, but you get what I mean.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oooooh.....Sunmetal Side Thought.

Could be they’re going the Ossiarch route, and defining Sunmetal as an army special rule, rather than tacking it on unit by unit?

From the Warhammer TV Facebook page:

I love how they have to keep telling us things like this, because people cannot be bothered to do a cursory search for themselves.

In summary, if you paid full price to be a beta tester you now get to pay full price again to get just the missing half of the final release, or alternatively you can pay full price for the whole final release. This is all good and logical and people who don't get it are dum dums.

Well beats not getting 2nd wave or 1st wave being just models and no book. Which were only 2 alternatives.

Also unit rules are on gw site and app for free. Just saying.

As for blademaster hoping for cheap price. Warden level　and need something super amazing to be worth it

Unfortunately I want the story from Broken Realms and I want the battletome for it all being in 1 place, because I am an idiot. At least they’re only $30AU each in the app.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
In summary, if you paid full price to be a beta tester you now get to pay full price again to get just the missing half of the final release, or alternatively you can pay full price for the whole final release. This is all good and logical and people who don't get it are dum dums.

It's no different than what they did with the multiple Stormcast Eternal battletomes. Plus I believe the Lumineth still have a couple of aelementiri temples to cover before the army list is 'complete'.

Tiberius501 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Dunno, an attack per enemy within 2” could make for a decent mincer unit, despite being D1.

Because it seems you don’t count each enemy only once when counting up the unit’s attacks. So if I have say 5, and each has 3 enemy models within 2” (could quite easily be more), that’s 3 attacks each, regardless of how many of mine are within 2” of the same enemy model.

I think I explained that right?

Certainly you’re gonna give my Gobbos a right proper blending, as there’s 60 of the buggers in my unit. If I pack them in to maximise my own attacks, you’ll be getting lots of attacks against me. And given Lumineth can resolve two units attacks one after the other, it could be pretty solid kicking, potentially neutering even the largest of chaff units sent against them.

Sure, they’re going to struggle against small, elite units (such as Necropolis stalkers), but horses for courses I guess?

I feel like their intention though was to allow them to fight small elite units too with their Perfect Strike attacks. But 1 attack of 1 dmg seems really crap for that, regardless of auto hitting. The horde killing option seems good though, I agree. But atm I’d rather the Stoneguard.

It’s also -2 to saves which is pretty significant. It does need a way to boost damage against multi-wound armoured dudes though.

Ghaz wrote: Plus I believe the Lumineth still have a couple of aelementiri temples to cover before the army list is 'complete'.

Am I the only one that keeps seeing “alimentary” there?
No?
Just me and my dyslexia then…

5 of them is only capable of doing max 5dmg to elite units, which seems quite bizarre if they’re, themselves, an elite unit. Other rules may change this, but yeah it’s not looking so good, even with auto-hits and -2 Rend.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
5 of them is only capable of doing max 5dmg to elite units, which seems quite bizarre if they’re, themselves, an elite unit. Other rules may change this, but yeah it’s not looking so good, even with auto-hits and -2 Rend.

Well unless they have very good defensive rule they ought to be quite cheap. 100 pts for 5 no way. So max 5 if you field at minimum.

Though lrl is specialist army. These　clearly are meant to be　horde killers. Dawnriders suck the moment they face non-1w infantry

Which makes these　rather lousy money/point ratio. Not that uncommon with gw though. Flayed ones　likely same too and those for　real damage are 20 blops...

 Mr_Rose wrote:

Ghaz wrote: Plus I believe the Lumineth still have a couple of aelementiri temples to cover before the army list is 'complete'.

Am I the only one that keeps seeing “alimentary” there?
No?
Just me and my dyslexia then…

I'm too used to GW adding in extra letters to misspell words at this point. Its annoying and stupid, but I find it predictable. An 'e' will get an 'a' stuffed on to make it more 'olde AEnglish' and we've got the l->r in a tacky sort of Japanglish. The rest is just irrelevant clutter around the root and can simply be discarded.

Once it becomes familiar, I automatically replace it with a real English word, like I'm reading a foreign language. Lumenith is just GW for 'high' and aelementiri is auto-translated to elemental, every time. Its like the 'whatever tempests' in the current imperial guard- I just skip to tempest and fill in 'storm trooper.' Its not worth trying to juggle their garbage.


---
@Ghaz- doing it with the stormcast too makes it worse, not OK.

TheGoodGerman wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

I'm feeling like I am taking crazypills, but the RAW here makes it seem like even casting friendly spells or endless spell abilities would have to pass the 4+...right?

It says that you „can“ roll a dice, and that the effect only applies „if“ you do so.

I think it will be your choice whether to try and ignore friendly spells.

That's literally what can means always check if it says can. With ogres for example you can roll for mw on charge. Don't　have to(say charging unit with protection of nagash spell and don'w want them to teleport to safety). Or with teclis negate spell effect aura. Say cogs is cast by enemy. You can either try to negate spell and bounce of mw. Or accept speed buff

tneva82 wrote:

Also unit rules are on gw site and app for free. Just saying.

great, let me know once they also have new spell lores, warscroll battalions and command abilities/artifacts too. As it is, anyone who bought the original tome LESS than a year ago can now either stick to using their book + only the units, but not the everything else from the new temples, or buy either a full battletome (as the one they got sold few months ago was apparently a demo version) or a campaign book that they may not otherwise care for.
The customer-friendly nature of this move makes Bank of America and EA blush.

I'm just glad they're keeping up the tradition of giving every LRL unit a bajillion special rules, and at least one that ignores the normal rules of the game, even if the effect isn't actually very powerful.

"Hey guys, what rule haven't we let LRL ignore yet?"

"Having to wound?"

"Nope, Sentinels."

"Having to roll to cast?"

"Nope, teclis."

"Armor saves?"

"Nope, that's the whole army with all those MWs."

"Battleshock?"

"Nah, we have that sad mage who does that, and even lets you project your modifiers onto the opponent for good measure."

"Armor save modifiers?"

"Nope, already have one character that does that naturally, and a spell you can use to put it on anyone."

"Ignoring having to move closer with pile-in?"

"Nope, we just gave that one to the roo-riders."

"Uh...having to roll to hit?"

"You're a genius, make it so!"

And what a useless nightmare it's going to be to count how many attacks you get on the alternate profile, for very little effect.

the alternate attack is something stormcast axe-paladins already have, and yes, it does take a while in case of large enemy mobs (and that's the best way to use it after all)

I never gave much credit to the Battleshock Lumineth mage until she killed 15 Mighty Skullcrushers because the last elf of a full unit always survived and I could not pay 2CP for battleshock inmunity thanks to teclis autocasting Eclipse.

Interactive gameplay.

TheGoodGerman wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

I'm feeling like I am taking crazypills, but the RAW here makes it seem like even casting friendly spells or endless spell abilities would have to pass the 4+...right?

It says that you „can“ roll a dice, and that the effect only applies „if“ you do so.

I think it will be your choice whether to try and ignore friendly spells.

Exactly. "If" is a used to create a conditional in the English language. RAW means that you can choose to roll it or not.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/03/24/when-nagash-comes-knocking-theres-no-better-bodyguard-than-a-vanari-bladelord/

Not 100% sold on these dudes, but they seem cool. As much as auto hitting is incredible, only 1 attack each of 1 dmg, and seemingly the inability to deal mortals with sun metal, the small amount of quality attacks may not be enough to keep up with how good the Wardens are. I assume they’ll get other special rules though, they seem good vs hordes too, and I’m probably wrong about the perfect strike option.

Either way they seem cool.

It is pretty good. The average damage output of most infantry, even high-offense ones, is almost always below 1. A warden with their buff spell up is only doing an average of 0.833 damage to a 4+ save, and the vast majority of that is from 5+ attack rolls so extremely inconsistent (and without the spell they are sitting at 0.58). A bladelord may only be doing 0.69 average damage but you can reasonably count on the actual damage being very close to that average almost all the time. As any veteran Warhammer player will tell you, consistency often trumps potential. This is one of the few units where a player can know with reasonable accuracy how much damage they will deal before the dice are rolled.

Simple version for us to remember as a guide when playing with/against bladelords; you can count on every 3 bladelords getting 2 damage past your save.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cronch wrote:
the alternate attack is something stormcast axe-paladins already have, and yes, it does take a while in case of large enemy mobs (and that's the best way to use it after all)

TBF it is a lot of fun though.

I really like LRL getting more stuff, and the bladelords seem like a better objectively compared to the dawnriders. Who feel like trash in certain situations. Especially against anything more than 1 wound. Few game's ive had with them they just are killed relatively easily while wardens have stuck to objectives alot better.

A lot of these units are welcome changes.

yukishiro1 wrote:
I'm just glad they're keeping up the tradition of giving every LRL unit a bajillion special rules, and at least one that ignores the normal rules of the game, even if the effect isn't actually very powerful.

"Hey guys, what rule haven't we let LRL ignore yet?"

"Having to wound?"

"Nope, Sentinels."

"Having to roll to cast?"

"Nope, teclis."

"Armor saves?"

"Nope, that's the whole army with all those MWs."

"Battleshock?"

"Nah, we have that sad mage who does that, and even lets you project your modifiers onto the opponent for good measure."

"Armor save modifiers?"

"Nope, already have one character that does that naturally, and a spell you can use to put it on anyone."

"Ignoring having to move closer with pile-in?"

"Nope, we just gave that one to the roo-riders."

"Uh...having to roll to hit?"

"You're a genius, make it so!"

And what a useless nightmare it's going to be to count how many attacks you get on the alternate profile, for very little effect.

Some folk never experienced High Elves back in Fantasy and it shows.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
I'm just glad they're keeping up the tradition of giving every LRL unit a bajillion special rules, and at least one that ignores the normal rules of the game, even if the effect isn't actually very powerful.

"Hey guys, what rule haven't we let LRL ignore yet?"

"Having to wound?"

"Nope, Sentinels."

"Having to roll to cast?"

"Nope, teclis."

"Armor saves?"

"Nope, that's the whole army with all those MWs."

"Battleshock?"

"Nah, we have that sad mage who does that, and even lets you project your modifiers onto the opponent for good measure."

"Armor save modifiers?"

"Nope, already have one character that does that naturally, and a spell you can use to put it on anyone."

"Ignoring having to move closer with pile-in?"

"Nope, we just gave that one to the roo-riders."

"Uh...having to roll to hit?"

"You're a genius, make it so!"

And what a useless nightmare it's going to be to count how many attacks you get on the alternate profile, for very little effect.

Some folk never experienced High Elves back in Fantasy and it shows.

Either way this doesn't sound like a lot of fun to play against. Removing the interaction from your opponents isn't a great way to design a game system. I'm getting flashbacks to 5th ed Grey Knights where I could do very little but watch my stuff get deleted.

To the contrary, understanding how to counterplay against Lumineth and what to do to mitigate their abilities is a big factor. There are a LOT of things you can do to screw with their allegiance benefits if you know what you are doing.

If you don't play a ton of games, there is basically never a reason to buy a new faction's first battle-tome/codex. Unless you don't care about buying another very soon. I think thats the take away.

Why no leaks? I know there’ll be reviews in a couple of days but... where the leaks?!

Unauthorized leaks tend to happen on friday. Check　calendar

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
If you don't play a ton of games, there is basically never a reason to buy a new faction's first battle-tome/codex. Unless you don't care about buying another very soon. I think thats the take away.

Not quite true though. Dark Eldar had the same book for multiple editions. Tau were fairly stable through most of 3rd ed. Tyranids were stable in 2nd ed.

The only cases of 1 Year Redundancy seem to be Imperial Knights, Lumineth and hilariously Space Marines (who got their x.5 updated book toward the end of 7th and then their new book almost immediately in 8th!)

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
If you don't play a ton of games, there is basically never a reason to buy a new faction's first battle-tome/codex. Unless you don't care about buying another very soon. I think thats the take away.

Not quite true though. Dark Eldar had the same book for multiple editions. Tau were fairly stable through most of 3rd ed. Tyranids were stable in 2nd ed.

The only cases of 1 Year Redundancy seem to be Imperial Knights, Lumineth and hilariously Space Marines (who got their x.5 updated book toward the end of 7th and then their new book almost immediately in 8th!)

Don't forget that then they had a second 8ndEd Codex soon after, and then after that the 9thEd Codex

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
To the contrary, understanding how to counterplay against Lumineth and what to do to mitigate their abilities is a big factor. There are a LOT of things you can do to screw with their allegiance benefits if you know what you are doing.

I'd love to agree more, but with books being all over the place power wise currently it's a bit of a feel bad. The level of LRL rules makes for a very feels bad experience. SoB also can be oppressive but they don't have access to non LoS nuking archers and arguably the best magic user to tank up your dudes/spam out debuffs and MW's makes LRL very unfun to play against as is, the new units I doubt will enhance that experience.

Such a shame since I adore my gloomspite but LRL are supremely unfun to play against.

Feels bad is Sentinels MW sniping your heroes from 30" away no line of sight, or Slaanesh summoning a free KoS every round. This is just a battlefield puzzle to solve.

If they are running Teclis; he is broken. Totally overpowered and there is nothing your army can do about it. Which yeah, really feels bad and really sucks. Best advice is load up on the mangeler squigs and fanatics, or squig artillery if you can.