I mean, Thunderers are still better choice imo, but we'll have to see the whole stat and cost to judge. I bet you they will have trash defense to "balance" it.
Oh my, there are some seriously powerful artifact toys there.
I do find the warscrolls attractive. They did not go too hard with special abilities, and there is a lot of consistency between analogous models (all the myrmadesh guys do MWs on 6s to wound, for example). I do fantasize that the twinsouls leader had an ability for the mirror thing, but overall I am really glad GW went with a straightforward position for the troops and left the crazy stuff to spells and centerpiece models.
Obviously the full context has yet to be exposed, but for the most part the warscrolls here seem reasonable to me in their potency, with only a couple exceptions. The healing hand on the KoS remains far better than the other options, which is a turn off, and that daemonette battalion could have a choke hold on meta lists if it is cheap enough.
Hellstriders are - odd at present. Leaked points have put them up, but they've lost their original soul ability and instead now get a bonus only on the charge.
So they feel like they've gone up in points, but actually down in overall power. Which is odd considering I don't think anyone considered them overpowered before.
The most annoying thing though is that the clawspears feel underwhelming. They get a bonus +1 damage on a charge and have -1 rending, but otherwise have less attacks and less reach (only 1inch) compared to the whips which have 3 inches of reach and get a -1 to hits against them within 3 inches on the charge.
Clawspears feel like they originally had some kind of "retreat and charge in the same turn" ability letting them ping their charge ability multiple times. Otherwise whilst the rending is nice, they feel a bit underwhelming compared to whips
LOL, they gave the archers 4 wounds each. 20 wounds for 180 points. That seems...dubious. As well as flat-out weird that they have double the wounds of a seeker or hellstrider. And more than a deathrider or chaos knight (!).
They also seem to have jacked up the price on everything again (e.g. the mounted dudes are 130 NZ for 5, compared to 115NZ for 5 deathriders), which, while not exactly surprising at this point, is certainly doubling down on the "there is no price point that our player base won't swallow" theory.
I think the new mounts are bigger, but I do agree pushing the price up on them is not something I'm happy about.
It's annoying though because the complaint to GW is "I don't like this price - I'm paying it - but I don't like it" which on their end is "the price worked".
IT is rather stark when the new mounts are near double the hellstriders though!
I think the new mounts are considerably larger, thus +2 wounds instead of the +1 from a normal steed. Given they are ridden by 2w models it makes sense they would be 4w. I'm assuming archers who get an exalted steed are sufficiently blessed to hit 2w status. I still think it would be better if they were 3w, but they may have considered that too shooty for a chaos unit.
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Overread wrote: Hellstriders are - odd at present. Leaked points have put them up, but they've lost their original soul ability and instead now get a bonus only on the charge.
So they feel like they've gone up in points, but actually down in overall power. Which is odd considering I don't think anyone considered them overpowered before.
The most annoying thing though is that the clawspears feel underwhelming. They get a bonus +1 damage on a charge and have -1 rending, but otherwise have less attacks and less reach (only 1inch) compared to the whips which have 3 inches of reach and get a -1 to hits against them within 3 inches on the charge.
Clawspears feel like they originally had some kind of "retreat and charge in the same turn" ability letting them ping their charge ability multiple times. Otherwise whilst the rending is nice, they feel a bit underwhelming compared to whips
I agree. While I like each unit getting an ability associated with their weapon to better distinguish them as separate units, the claw spear should be 2 attacks. If it was 2 attacks they would be perfectly balanced with their whippy counterparts.
Aye, clawblades need something to make them stand out. Right now there's honestly no real tempting reason to take them over whips. Which is a shame as I do really like the weapon itself as a shape and design.
That said overall what I'm really liking is how no one has spotted a power-combo yet. In fact looking around at FB and TGA groups its clear that there's a lot of chatter on different builds, which I thin is fantastic and perhaps the best thing for any Battletome or Codex. That it can offer multiple ways to play without a clear winner. It opens it up for different builds, play styles, variety and also just using more of your collection in an active manner. Being able to run all those seekers that you got through getting started sets and the like in a seeker based force; or going for all those demons or a strong mortal focus etc... Or even leaning back toward the old multi-keeper build without feeling dirty using it.
Well i'm a bit off from the relase cycle but a local FLGS got the book and models today in the store.
And unless i'm mistaken it should be preorder this saturday for next weekend right?
Yes, pre orders are tomorrow for Slaanesh and Daughters of Khaine (who get a new book, Endless Spells and some dice - though oddly no warscroll cards and the dice are not anywhere near as nice as normal - functional if plain for GW's pricey dice).
That slaangors scroll is downright bizarre. The normal, non-champion ones are flat out *terrible* for the points, but the champion is actually quite good. So you'd never want to run them in units bigger than 3...except that the MW at the end of combat thing is only going to kick in with a bigger unit, and even then is dubious value for the points on things that die to a stiff breeze.
I guess schizophrenic is not actually off-brand for Slaanesh, but I just don't see why anyone would actually want to use them.
I'm not going to call anything without getting more exposed. How summoning works is a big factor. Sub-factions can also bend balance into all sorts of strange positions. (Looking at you, Petrifax)
Sotahullu wrote: Ugh, I really hope Slaangor kit has more then 1 sprue...
From what's on the NZ site already, it looks like it's one sprue with a few options for the kit (horns, claws, etc).
Spoiler:
Yeah, I was afraid of that. Wish it had another sprue with maybe one more body and just a mess of limbs and heads.
The fact that they're roughly ogre sized really limits appropriate sized bits for conversions.
Sadly all of the Slaanesh stuff seems to be packed with pretty much only the necessities, and few extras like heads or weapons for conversions.
It's hard to tell but I think I count only one (and maybe three?) different head options in the cavalry kit, and no extras with the archers.
I do hope that sooner rather than later they release a glaive infantry kit in the Harem pants and masks that the underworlds warband has just to give us more body and head options.
Carlovonsexron wrote: Sadly all of the Slaanesh stuff seems to be packed with pretty much only the necessities, and few extras like heads or weapons for conversions.
It's hard to tell but I think I count only one (and maybe three?) different head options in the cavalry kit, and no extras with the archers.
I do hope that sooner rather than later they release a glaive infantry kit in the Harem pants and masks that the underworlds warband has just to give us more body and head options.
I believe there is one sword arm option for the
champion on the archers sprue like it is the case for
the slaangors but it looks like to be it.
Monopose deal I think, without option to change heads between bodies.
I think it's a deliberate shift. They don't want to give you options, because the feeds the bits market, which they don't directly profit from. With a lot of their recent kits, they seem to have actually gone out of their way to make it difficult to swap or magnetize bits. So many kits have arms that come together with the body at weird, non-right-angles that seem to exist for no reason other than to make it hard to swap, and they almost all have fixed torsos these days.
IMO these miniatures are gorgeous and I think criticizing the bits is missing the forest for the trees. If loosing a bunch of mundane pose options and some extra arms & heads means getting the fantastic dynamic poses these guys have I am all for it. This isn't a dwarf release where having the models in basic static pose looks good, these are the devoted of Slaanesh and their posing should be as excessive as they are. Besides two of these are dual kits; they will have a ton of bits left over.
yukishiro1 wrote: I think it's a deliberate shift. They don't want to give you options, because the feeds the bits market, which they don't directly profit from. With a lot of their recent kits, they seem to have actually gone out of their way to make it difficult to swap or magnetize bits. So many kits have arms that come together with the body at weird, non-right-angles that seem to exist for no reason other than to make it hard to swap, and they almost all have fixed torsos these days.
They don't want to invest more, they want to minimize cost while selling it as the highest price possible, "bits market" had nothing to do with that. Back in the days they still let nerds and hobbyist in the studio handling the money so they made extra sprues and unnecessary bits because they just love the hobby, nowaday it's business man in suit maximizing profit and hitting the annual record, the "extra bits" only come if the tiny sprue still has space left.
Overall the Slaanesh book has me excited, its not seeming to have a big "I win" single combo in it and there's a lot of general chatter about different compositions and different focuses. To me that's a sign of a good solid battletome in that it internally offers you actual choices to make and offers varieties of playstyle and model choice. There's a few units that might appear weak now and I think its going to be interesting to see what people come up with and how the book plays out and see if there are oddities or if they settle into niches within the book. Overall really pleased
DoK is mostly what we expected, not a huge sweep of changes like the Slaanesh and some is a tune up on abilities (eg fully within appearing for auras and the like).
What I find most interesting about both books is that neither is showing is anything new to 2.0. I know there's a lot of "ooh 3.0 is near" thoughts going around, but right now these two books, if they are 3.0 ready, aren't showing us anything new. That's interesting because it means 3.0 might be a tune-up instead of a wholesale change. Perhaps introducing new complexities to things (eg how terrain works) but not fundamentally changing how the core of the game works. If they are 2.5 battletomes then it means 3.0 is likely quite a long way off; esp considering that whilst the Slaanesh is a big reworking; the DoK is more of an update and much of that was already covered in the recent Morathi book.
Overall interesting times are ahead!
Budget wise I wound up going for 3 units of the new Seekers in addition to some dice and battletome. It was a hard choice but the seekers really grabbed the most of everything GW released for Slaanesh and, as the most expensive of the models (for a non huge leader model) I'm just trying to get that cost out of the way. Though at 3 units only I'm bound to add some more in time.
Shame myrmedesh are just more fragile chaos warriors for 60 more points you get 1" move and wounds of 6 causing mortals, but lose the FNP and access to alternate weapon load outs.
Sigvald feels like he is designed with 3rd in mind as he is going to be very easy to snipe out with shooting. 6 wounds for a 260 point.
good news though the seekers are not tied to a mount as it looked like (both had been preview modelled with same body on each mount) so should be able add variety, the Myrmedesh should also get decent pose ability with the joint being at the torso for weapons.
Was it not only a short while ago that 5 man cavalry boxes were £15? Now they are £42... yeash. I do like some of the models though, think this might be more of a "buy a couple to paint" rather than fully collect for me.
Mothman wrote: good news though the seekers are not tied to a mount as it looked like (both had been preview modelled with same body on each mount) so should be able add variety, the Myrmedesh should also get decent pose ability with the joint being at the torso for weapons.
I like that about the riders. Makes the kit more interesting to me as a source of bits.
The new Slaanesh Seekers are 200ponts for the twinblades and near 200 for the archers. So they are elite style cavalry models. I would wager taking lots and lots of them isn't easily done. A full 20 unit would be 800 points which is a big chunk; even if you split it 10 close combat 10 ranged you're still hitting a big chunk of points.
So at least even though they are, what I think, overpriced (35 would have been a fairer amount but even there I see GW are slowly slipping to £36 for some infantry 5 man teams) ; they are at least elite style.
NinthMusketeer wrote: IMO these miniatures are gorgeous and I think criticizing the bits is missing the forest for the trees. If loosing a bunch of mundane pose options and some extra arms & heads means getting the fantastic dynamic poses these guys have I am all for it. This isn't a dwarf release where having the models in basic static pose looks good, these are the devoted of Slaanesh and their posing should be as excessive as they are. Besides two of these are dual kits; they will have a ton of bits left over.
I get it, and to a certain point agree- I love the dynamic poses that these kits, and most modern GW kits have.
Buuuuut... I feel like a few head options (at least) would go along way towards giving the illusion of multiple builds.
I got Sigvald and the dice. I'm a fan of Slaanesh in general and I really like the new models, but I've got too many projects on the go to invest in another army.
I haven't decided yet if I'm going to convert Siggy into an Emperor's Children Daemon Prince or just assemble him in his vanilla pose, either way he's a fantastic model.
I can see the Mirror Wizard dude being a fairly popular choice. Being able to provide a native +1 to wound for your dudes, and the chance to make an enemy unit -1 to wound is pretty saucy.
Whilst it may not on its own define the outcome of a game, it’s a nice tool to really punish a unit, or even pull your bahookie out the fire.
So at least even though they are, what I think, overpriced (35 would have been a fairer amount but even there I see GW are slowly slipping to £36 for some infantry 5 man teams) ; they are at least elite style.
They have 4 wounds and 5+ save, that's the same as basic ogre glutton. Not really what i'd describe as "elite" in any way. Even their damage profile is similar, with only the 6+ MW being distinctive advantage.
So at least even though they are, what I think, overpriced (35 would have been a fairer amount but even there I see GW are slowly slipping to £36 for some infantry 5 man teams) ; they are at least elite style.
They have 4 wounds and 5+ save, that's the same as basic ogre glutton. Not really what i'd describe as "elite" in any way. Even their damage profile is similar, with only the 6+ MW being distinctive advantage.
True but at near and actual 200points for 5 I can't see them being run often in 15 model units. That's 600points. Put two full units in (6 sets) and you've got 1200 points. In contrast something like Deamonettes you've got 3 sets (30 models) in only 300 points or so.
Lovely models, but the prices ensure I will only be buying one box each of the myrmidesh/symbaresh, the foot archers and the shardspeaker, all for use in Warcry (although some of the archers might also end up converted into Slaanesh cultists for Kill Team). The seekers and slaangor are just too expensive for me to justify to myself, even for just a single box of each.
To be honest, I think I'm done with AoS and 40K and will be limiting my GW purchases to things I can use in skirmish-level games (i.e. Warcry, Kill Team and Necromunda) from now on. The cost of building full armies is just too high now. I could still afford it, but I can't justify it any more.
Iracundus wrote: Is there anything new in terms of lore? Like anything new about the godspawn?
I've only heard bits here and there (didn't want to spoil it all hearing the entre read-through) however I don't think they elaborate on it yet. They mention that its out and in the world, but I think it might be something developed and revealed through the campaign books. Or even later into 3.0. Right now I think its a story hook. We've had the escape in the Morathi book and this Battletome backs that up. We've got the Hedonites defending it and the shape forming. What it becomes and what it is we have to wait and see.
A big part is if its going to be something like a new God or such which won't have a model and is purely story and background; or if its something that will have a model and thus might come with a campaign book or such later. The Hedonite book has no warscrolls without models, but they could always add another monster/leader/demon with just a warscroll and model.
Hollow wrote: Was it not only a short while ago that 5 man cavalry boxes were £15? Now they are £42... yeash. I do like some of the models though, think this might be more of a "buy a couple to paint" rather than fully collect for me.
Not commenting on price, but I do want to point out that these are 'monstrous cavalry' not regular cavalry; that's a 75mm oval they are on (as opposed to 60 mm) so they are a good chunk larger.
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Mothman wrote: Sigvald feels like he is designed with 3rd in mind as he is going to be very easy to snipe out with shooting. 6 wounds for a 260 point.
Have to read the whole warscroll; he has a 4+ fnp, so is effectively 12 wounds with a 3+ save and any healing he gets is worth twice as much. On top of look out sir and cover bonuses, he is actually somewhat of a 'shooting trap' where you want the opponent to target him instead of your large number of far, far squishier troops.
So at least even though they are, what I think, overpriced (35 would have been a fairer amount but even there I see GW are slowly slipping to £36 for some infantry 5 man teams) ; they are at least elite style.
They have 4 wounds and 5+ save, that's the same as basic ogre glutton. Not really what i'd describe as "elite" in any way. Even their damage profile is similar, with only the 6+ MW being distinctive advantage.
I am confused, you are saying they are on par with the most elite army in the game short Sons, but they are not elite? That does not make any sense.
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Mothman wrote: Shame myrmedesh are just more fragile chaos warriors for 60 more points you get 1" move and wounds of 6 causing mortals, but lose the FNP and access to alternate weapon load outs.
Well let's break it down:
-Myrmedesh have 1 more move but no +1 to run/charge and -1 bravery, but given the warriors' bonus in that department are from music/banner which can be killed I'd say this more or less evens out between the two units.
-Myrmedesh re-roll saves all the time but only in melee. Warriors re-roll saves against both melee and shooting but only when at 10+ models. This is a big deal, as warriors losing that benefit when they go below 10 models is extremely significant in terms of gameplay and listbuilding. Myrmedesh have the advantage here.
-Warriors get halberd and dual-wield weapon options (also great weapon but that isn't viable) so have flexibility, or a 5+ fnp against mortals with sword n board. However, the Myrmedesh weapon option does significantly more damage between rend and extra MWs on 6s to wound. Against a 5+ save its 0.48 damage vs 2.7 damage per attack, against a 4+ save it's 0.41 damage vs 0.22 damage per attack.
Long story short; a 5-man Myrmedesh unit is significantly better than a 5-man Warrior unit, but the Warriors even out when it comes to 15+ blob squads. Does that justify the point difference? I personally don't think so; IMO the Myrmedesh should cost more but not 60 points more.
NinthMusketeer wrote: IMO these miniatures are gorgeous and I think criticizing the bits is missing the forest for the trees. If loosing a bunch of mundane pose options and some extra arms & heads means getting the fantastic dynamic poses these guys have I am all for it. This isn't a dwarf release where having the models in basic static pose looks good, these are the devoted of Slaanesh and their posing should be as excessive as they are. Besides two of these are dual kits; they will have a ton of bits left over.
I get it, and to a certain point agree- I love the dynamic poses that these kits, and most modern GW kits have.
Buuuuut... I feel like a few head options (at least) would go along way towards giving the illusion of multiple builds.
If its a demon model it could well cross over both games easily. Though I've long felt that 40K could do with an upgrade or some unique demons for its setting alone for each of the Gods. things like Seeker Chariots look fantastic in fantasy, in 40K they still look neat, but they feel kind of "odd". Great against swarms of guardsmen or termagaunts but not the kind of thing you can envision running over fleet eldar or hulking marines; nor taking on a gun-line of tau etc....
Who knows we could get the snake tailed many armed one back!
Carlovonsexron wrote: Thought: could it be a model they are waiting for an Emperor's children release to give us, as it may work for both systems?
You mean like Fulgrim? The old Epic Space Marine Fulgrim didn't have any obvious ranged weapons or technology so could also have worked in fantasy.
Overread wrote: If its a demon model it could well cross over both games easily. Though I've long felt that 40K could do with an upgrade or some unique demons for its setting alone for each of the Gods. things like Seeker Chariots look fantastic in fantasy, in 40K they still look neat, but they feel kind of "odd". Great against swarms of guardsmen or termagaunts but not the kind of thing you can envision running over fleet eldar or hulking marines; nor taking on a gun-line of tau etc....
Who knows we could get the snake tailed many armed one back!
All the old Eye of Terror worlds could basically have been WHFB Chaos in space basically. Feral warriors fighting it out with primitive weapons and daemons. Thing to remember about the daemon constructs is they are meant to be unnatural warpstuff, so they may have a durability that seems hard to believe against technological weapons like plasma and railguns.
Hearing about new locus of distraction: Wow! That is inventive, thematic, and way way more fun on top of being extremely tactical. Seriously, two thumbs up GW great work.
Hearing about new depravity points: Hey, that is a great way to re-spin the mechanic so it doesn't focus just on high wound models! Further, with this we could see Slaanesh not being defined by summoning spa-
"it takes 12 depravity to summon a Keeper of Secrets"
Dammit GW.
Take an epitome, some cultist units, and some spawn, huck a burning head or gnashing jaws through them, bam 12 depravity. Those units will be around to do it again round 2, paying for themselves a second free keeper and still having dudes left to camp an objective and/or screen the backfield against deep strikes. If things are going well doing some of that again round 3 is reasonably possible, and all this depravity generation can still be doubled via Syll'Esske host.
Carlovonsexron wrote: Thought: could it be a model they are waiting for an Emperor's children release to give us, as it may work for both systems?
You mean like Fulgrim? The old Epic Space Marine Fulgrim didn't have any obvious ranged weapons or technology so could also have worked in fantasy.
I think Fulgrim would work great design wise in AoS (a parody of Morthai would be a PERFECT demon prince of Slaanesh!) but maybe something huge, but not Fulgrim.
However, I don't know of anything already established in 40k lore that might be suitable for that idea.
True, but some of the depravity ability sources have reduced and a lot of the models have had point increases. I think they've baked depravity more into the army than before. Hellstriders went up by nearly 50% in points yet if anything are perhaps a touch weaker than they were before in terms of damage output. Clawspears only get bonus damage on the charge and neither can get a bonus attack if they killed/attacked the turn before.
I think opponents will also be more suited to the idea that you either avoid combat or try and remove an entire unit in one fell swoop of damage to reduce depravity generation
Plus iwth the army no longer demanding that you take heroes at least other options are more open now if you want to generate depravity.
I do agree some of the costs sound cheap; however I think the core of the mechanics generation of the resource is better than it was. Much easier to jiggle 1 table of cost values and just the sort of thing GW can update in a latter FAQ/Errata/Generals Handbook.
Carlovonsexron wrote: Thought: could it be a model they are waiting for an Emperor's children release to give us, as it may work for both systems?
You mean like Fulgrim? The old Epic Space Marine Fulgrim didn't have any obvious ranged weapons or technology so could also have worked in fantasy.
I think Fulgrim would work great design wise in AoS (a parody of Morthai would be a PERFECT demon prince of Slaanesh!) but maybe something huge, but not Fulgrim.
However, I don't know of anything already established in 40k lore that might be suitable for that idea.
What about this utterly awesome beast from the Libre Chaotica
Yeah, the mechanic is still a far better design. They will be able to fix it by eratta'ing the depravity values like they did last time, only this time the core mechanic doesn't push list skew nearly as hard so the situation is much better. It is just like, almost comical how such brilliant rules design (and I mean that--between the new locus and the redesigned depravity there is some extremely well done rules here) can be right next to such a painfully obvious flaw.
NinthMusketeer wrote: What the actual feth is Libre Chaotica and how do I get my hands on it because hot dam that is awesome.
It's an utterly awesome lore book.
It basically is 5 books in one. BL produced 4 god specific books of chaos. They are loosely written as a first person diary/account of a person studying Chaos and whilst they reference the Old World they have lots of cross over between the two. They are basically the Go-To classic lore reference for Chaos. The four god books still appear on ebay etc.. from time to time. However all four along with a mortals chapter were reprinted in full in the Libre in hardback. BL published it ages ago, but did a recent (year or two back) limited reprint again. So you might still find stock out there, but its again out of print and very popular so tricky toget.
If you can get it GET IT because its utterly utterly awesome and has some of the best classic chaos art that still gets pulled out and used today.
As a price reference it was £30 originally from BL new. Some of the individual god books now go for that much on ebay if you're lucky - the full book is £70 at cheapest and rapidly rises from there sadly. BL might do another print some time, but like a lot of the art/lore books you've got no clue if or when they might.
Overread wrote: True, but some of the depravity ability sources have reduced and a lot of the models have had point increases. I think they've baked depravity more into the army than before. Hellstriders went up by nearly 50% in points yet if anything are perhaps a touch weaker than they were before in terms of damage output. Clawspears only get bonus damage on the charge and neither can get a bonus attack if they killed/attacked the turn before.
I think opponents will also be more suited to the idea that you either avoid combat or try and remove an entire unit in one fell swoop of damage to reduce depravity generation
Plus iwth the army no longer demanding that you take heroes at least other options are more open now if you want to generate depravity.
I do agree some of the costs sound cheap; however I think the core of the mechanics generation of the resource is better than it was. Much easier to jiggle 1 table of cost values and just the sort of thing GW can update in a latter FAQ/Errata/Generals Handbook.
Carlovonsexron wrote: Thought: could it be a model they are waiting for an Emperor's children release to give us, as it may work for both systems?
You mean like Fulgrim? The old Epic Space Marine Fulgrim didn't have any obvious ranged weapons or technology so could also have worked in fantasy.
I think Fulgrim would work great design wise in AoS (a parody of Morthai would be a PERFECT demon prince of Slaanesh!) but maybe something huge, but not Fulgrim.
However, I don't know of anything already established in 40k lore that might be suitable for that idea.
What about this utterly awesome beast from the Libre Chaotica
Seems like it might work! (But honestly, makes me pine for a new Champion of Slaanesh on a boob snake)
NinthMusketeer wrote: What the actual feth is Libre Chaotica and how do I get my hands on it because hot dam that is awesome.
It's "Liber Chaotica" there's one for each chaos god and they are due for a re-release anyway iirc.
It had a re-release fairly recently (like a year and a bit ago) but as is typical with the cool BL lore books, it sold out pretty quick. I managed to get one on eBay for about £65 I think.
rayphoton wrote: Are Khainite shadowstalkers in the new morathi book?
Yes with points and everything along with the Underworld Warband as well. The DoK book is pretty much a complete update to everything to-date that's available for them.
rayphoton wrote: Are Khainite shadowstalkers in the new morathi book?
Yes with points and everything along with the Underworld Warband as well. The DoK book is pretty much a complete update to everything to-date that's available for them.
Nice..worth getting then for me. I really want a group of teleporting jerks bouncing around the board over and over again
This was the first GW release I really liked the look of since AoS launched, but the pricing going way beyond anything reasonable makes it a big nope from me.
It's complete scattershot pricing, for whatever reason, slaanesh mortal basic troops are over 2x more expensive than tzeentch and khorne basic mortal troops.
Money saved and attention returned to other games!
NinthMusketeer wrote: What the actual feth is Libre Chaotica and how do I get my hands on it because hot dam that is awesome.
It's "Liber Chaotica" there's one for each chaos god and they are due for a re-release anyway iirc.
It had a re-release fairly recently (like a year and a bit ago) but as is typical with the cool BL lore books, it sold out pretty quick. I managed to get one on eBay for about £65 I think.
I had the limited edition Slaanesh one with the “human skin” leather cover back in the day, can’t remember if I sold it or if it’s hiding somewhere...
What I find most interesting about both books is that neither is showing is anything new to 2.0. I know there's a lot of "ooh 3.0 is near" thoughts going around, but right now these two books, if they are 3.0 ready, aren't showing us anything new. That's interesting because it means 3.0 might be a tune-up instead of a wholesale change. Perhaps introducing new complexities to things (eg how terrain works) but not fundamentally changing how the core of the game works. If they are 2.5 battletomes then it means 3.0 is likely quite a long way off; esp considering that whilst the Slaanesh is a big reworking; the DoK is more of an update and much of that was already covered in the recent Morathi book.
Well 40k books in end of 8e didn't have any hints regarding 9e either.
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scarletsquig wrote: This was the first GW release I really liked the look of since AoS launched, but the pricing going way beyond anything reasonable makes it a big nope from me.
It's complete scattershot pricing, for whatever reason, slaanesh mortal basic troops are over 2x more expensive than tzeentch and khorne basic mortal troops.
Money saved and attention returned to other games!
frankelee wrote:I really like the Blissbarb Archers and Myrmidesh designs. I'm not going to spend $110 + tax to get them, but I really like them.
scarletsquig wrote:This was the first GW release I really liked the look of since AoS launched, but the pricing going way beyond anything reasonable makes it a big nope from me.
It's complete scattershot pricing, for whatever reason, slaanesh mortal basic troops are over 2x more expensive than tzeentch and khorne basic mortal troops.
Money saved and attention returned to other games!
Yeah, I would have purchased both kits at more reasonable prices. At those prices, I'll just enjoy then from afar.
Far as we know Lumineth are next for AoS and should be here before summer. They are currently expected to come with the next campaign book and its also expected that the book will basically be a 0.5 update to the battletome adding in all the profiles for the new models they've previewed for the army.
After that the previews hint that we'll see the new Warhammer Quest game and then much later a Vampire army. The Vampire army is hard to say when it will come; it could be after Lumineth and Warhammer Quest, or it might have a longer gap with other big releases before it.
Far as we know Lumineth are next for AoS and should be here before summer. They are currently expected to come with the next campaign book and its also expected that the book will basically be a 0.5 update to the battletome adding in all the profiles for the new models they've previewed for the army.
After that the previews hint that we'll see the new Warhammer Quest game and then much later a Vampire army. The Vampire army is hard to say when it will come; it could be after Lumineth and Warhammer Quest, or it might have a longer gap with other big releases before it.
Ah okay, was wondering! Thats pretty good then, I am interested with this second release what they will hint at with the next. As I feel like Dark / Shadow Elves seem to be on the horizon and hopefully a lizardmen update.
Kind of hankering to see what else is in place for the Lumineth to get. And to actually see the models
All these releases are all pretty interesting especially with the new AOS book, Storm Vault seems to be they are building up to something?
I was going to wonder why they insist on gumming up half the armies in AOS with summoning mechanics when it causes so many balance problems in the game...but then I realized, hey, that's more models you have to buy!
The cost of running a new slaanesh list is downright extortionate, between the super-premium-priced new kits and the large sideboard you need to run of daemonettes and keepers.
yukishiro1 wrote: I was going to wonder why they insist on gumming up half the armies in AOS with summoning mechanics when it causes so many balance problems in the game...but then I realized, hey, that's more models you have to buy!
The cost of running a new slaanesh list is downright extortionate, between the super-premium-priced new kits and the large sideboard you need to run of daemonettes and keepers.
Honestly?
Compared to a lot of factions I am used to playing. Eh. Death Korps and Elysians are stil lthe most expensive armies to play. (Thanks forgeworld!)
But yeah its pretty expensive but with how expensive all the armies are for AOS i am not too surprised?
NinthMusketeer wrote: What the actual feth is Libre Chaotica and how do I get my hands on it because hot dam that is awesome.
It's "Liber Chaotica" there's one for each chaos god and they are due for a re-release anyway iirc.
It had a re-release fairly recently (like a year and a bit ago) but as is typical with the cool BL lore books, it sold out pretty quick. I managed to get one on eBay for about £65 I think.
I had the limited edition Slaanesh one with the “human skin” leather cover back in the day, can’t remember if I sold it or if it’s hiding somewhere...
I remember seeing the limited edition ones advertised in White Dwarf, they were all really cool. I dread to think what they’d go for now!
I honestly never bat an eye at GW pricing as it tends to crawl up over the years.
This though?
Yea, easy pass for me simply because of the insane prices (for the first time ever)
When GW infantry and cav models exceed FW by nearly double in price, that’s an issue.
Sigvald, the fat dude in giant crib and slaangors are all on par with expected pricing (fat guy being cheaper than expected)
The bulk of the army though is just plain insanity for price.
At this point, building my 30k army up is even more tempting as it’s cheaper.
10 chaff models for 40-50€, 5 elite models for 40-50€ and cavalry for 45-55€ is the standard pricing since AoS came out
The chaff and characters are normal.
The elite models aren’t just elite, they are troops.
So you’ll likely be running a few units of at least 10.
Check other cav units, that’s not a normal price for them at all.
kodos wrote: Stormcast Paladins are 45/46€ for 5 and you run them in 2 units of 10
Deepkin Cavalry is 40 for 3 models, Lumineth are 50 for 5, new Chaos one is 80 for 3 models
just the older Warhammer Fantasy models are cheaper, everything made for AoS is in the same price range
And they are elite units.
These are far closer to liberators.
Deepkin cav have had endless complaints about their pricing as they are priced as elite top end cavalry.
Lumineth ones are indeed cheaper still.
Chaos one is 80 for 3?
I’m assuming you mean varanguard?
If that is the case, they are one of the most elite units in the game, not generic cav.
They are also over priced cost wise.
So if it’s all the same price range have you looked at any other ranges?
Fyreslayers elite units like heartguard are cheaper.
Bone reapers knights are cheaper.
Both AoS only factions.
Scroll through the GW store by unit type.
The cost jumps pretty dramatically on all AoS stuff.
Comparing works when picking similar things.
Picking the few top priced items as a reference that for the most part are entirely different, does not work.
kodos wrote: Stormcast Paladins are 45/46€ for 5 and you run them in 2 units of 10
Deepkin Cavalry is 40 for 3 models, Lumineth are 50 for 5, new Chaos one is 80 for 3 models
just the older Warhammer Fantasy models are cheaper, everything made for AoS is in the same price range
Not really. Idoneth infantry and cav are cheaper than lumineth (tho you do get fewer eels, but they're also lot bigger than the horsieboys) for example. Plus the "elite" units in this release aren't really elite, they're just expensive. Like, myrmidesh aren't equivalent to paladins, they're equivalent to sequitors which you get 10 in a box for almost the same price.
5€ more is not that big difference for models that should cost 25-30 per box
AoS is overpriced since its beginning and the price point increased over time as usual for GW
during their release Fyreslayer were seen as too expensive and now their price is normal
nothing special here or anything unexpected (except for the special chariot were I thought it will be way more than 90 and compared to Sigvald looks really cheap)
I just follow the release as some people here claim that the success of AoS is only to the popularity of Oldhammer and models are mainly bought for that
and also some people claim that Mantic already reached GW price point with their models (but GW is still double the Mantic price so everything normal)
Deepkin cavalry are "top end elite cavalry", despite being a Battleline option. Even if we were just to look at Wounds alone(4W/each), they'd still be a big deal.
Realistically they never should have been able to get as big of unit sizes as they could. That's one of the big issues with Deepkin right now, matching the lore to the rules.
Eh lore to tabletop is always more of a feel or theme than a straight translation. Most armies don't always work to their lore.
And in that there's the fact that most armies have different forms even in the lore itself. Some Deepkin forces are going to be light on some units and heavy on others. Even a "rare" unit can be heavily used by one kingdom and not another.
It is when that’s happening at nearly every release.
By the time they get back to an army a kit has jumped up a lot more.
Some of it is, but then other release are actually far cheaper than people expect.
So I’m assuming it was varanguard you were comparing then?
These are now generic cavalry?
So by this logic, a saurus oldblood on carnosaur and Archaon are the same too.
Comparisons only work when you compare them to a similar item.
It’s just an odd release as it’s all or nothing with GW usually.
Chaff, sigvald and the gors are what people were expecting.
The giant chariot was actually cheaper.
The cav and warriors though push past all recent prices.
The fact that you acknowledge a price rise goes against your own comments too.
It's not longer half the price of GW's for new releases anymore.
Funny part is the upgrade pack for "not storm vermins" (in resin, of course), that's not including the basic kit you still need to buy separately to make your full unit. And yep, even in this case, it's far from being half of GW's prices.
Otherwise...I know other countries don't have that problem, but Brexit messes at the frontier is the real crippling matter for EU customers...my own GW store in Belgium still didn't get the orders from december and not a single release from january and further so far...
There's no point for me to pre-order anything, at this stage.
Even before Corona they were mostly selling out on release of big popular things. The only things that weren't were things like the Eldar and Dark Eldar boxed set - ergo high price and lots of repeat content for existing customers hwo didn't "want" that repeat content.
I can’t really afford anything anymore unfortunately due to the constant inflation. I remember when $40 for a space marines character seemed ridiculous a few years ago. Now they’re $70 and I can’t bring myself to ever get them until I see some good discounts on eBay or something.
It’s a real shame to finally be priced out of the hobby, but luckily I can still get the books when they come and sometimes a new unit or so to spruce up my forces.
well, we are talking abotu new releases, not a 10+ year old GW kit (but expect that the next Skave infantry box will be 40 for 10 as well), comparing the 2 Daemons (to use a newer model) it is 85€ VS 45€
Again, the new cavalry are monstrous cavalry; that is not that standard 60mm oval for normal cavalry they are on. These guys are chonky 4-wound beasts, they are equivalent to eels not dawnriders. The price being justified is another matter but they aren't a raise, because they aren't basic cavalry.
The real crime here is the 'desh kit. Five 32mm elite infantry has been $45ish in AoS; hearthguard, revenants, grundstock, etc (IMO already too expensive, fortunately generally made available in various bundle boxes). Others have been that much for 10 like Nighthaunt or tzaangors (which I think is a very fair price). Then we hit alarith stoneguard and GW decided $60 for five was cool.
Given that the 'desh infantry aren't particularly better in-game than other options but far more monetarily expensive I do not see a bright future for them until something changes.
On the bright side they look cool and their rules are well designed.
it's funny, cause they are on larger bases, but they completely lack the presence of "monstrous" cavalry. They just feel like normal cav like dawnriders or deathriders, but slapped on larger bases. Which I guess means GW failed to convince the people commenting that they're worth the price, if they don't *feel* monstrous.
10 chaff models for 40-50€, 5 elite models for 40-50€ and cavalry for 45-55€ is the standard pricing since AoS came out
The chaff and characters are normal.
The elite models aren’t just elite, they are troops.
So you’ll likely be running a few units of at least 10.
Check other cav units, that’s not a normal price for them at all.
Based on what? Previous models? Gw keeps upping prices with new sku's. This is new normal. You can't use old prices as standard with gw
Cronch wrote: it's funny, cause they are on larger bases, but they completely lack the presence of "monstrous" cavalry. They just feel like normal cav like dawnriders or deathriders, but slapped on larger bases. Which I guess means GW failed to convince the people commenting that they're worth the price, if they don't *feel* monstrous.
Things like that are likely more common right now because no one has the models in hand. Even next week it won't resolve itself fully because only some slaanesh players will have them in hand; others will have to wait or might not see them for ages if they can't afford and non slaanesh players might not see them for ages. With lockdowns its cutting down on real world viewing of models.
I'm half hoping that they some how break Nagash. I'd love to see his mind fragment to the point where he loses his totalitarian control over Death and ends up with open civil war.
I think it would play well to stop him becoming too powerful in the setting. Right now every death is feeding fuel to his legions; every war and every battle that is waged is adding power to Nagash. Only a few of the Death Realms are holding out (Skaven holds out for example) whilst many others are falling to Nagash.
Nagash will fast end up, even with his Black Pyramid failing, with an overwhelming army compared to any other force. Even Sigmar can't compete with the sheer numbers since his Stormcast take time to be reforged and, whilst they are elite, Nagash has vast weight of numbers on his side.
Fragment Nagash and suddenly you can keep him working with each of the Death factions, but story wise no longer rule them all with a totalitarian level of control. Suddenly BOOM he's left fighting himself and his bid for supreme power is, for a few ages, broken.
Overread wrote: I'm half hoping that they some how break Nagash. I'd love to see his mind fragment to the point where he loses his totalitarian control over Death and ends up with open civil war.
I think it would play well to stop him becoming too powerful in the setting. Right now every death is feeding fuel to his legions; every war and every battle that is waged is adding power to Nagash. Only a few of the Death Realms are holding out (Skaven holds out for example) whilst many others are falling to Nagash.
Nagash will fast end up, even with his Black Pyramid failing, with an overwhelming army compared to any other force. Even Sigmar can't compete with the sheer numbers since his Stormcast take time to be reforged and, whilst they are elite, Nagash has vast weight of numbers on his side.
Fragment Nagash and suddenly you can keep him working with each of the Death factions, but story wise no longer rule them all with a totalitarian level of control. Suddenly BOOM he's left fighting himself and his bid for supreme power is, for a few ages, broken.
It literally says "Supreme lord of the undead" on his box. It's not happening.
Yeah, I agree that this preview should show us the rest of the Lumineth models that are hinted, and probably a teaser of the Soulblight. I feel like the SB are probably pretty far off, so we are only going to get a model or two.
I am guessing this is going to be the AoS primarily, with maybe a small showing of dexes for 40k or something.
Overread wrote: I'm half hoping that they some how break Nagash. I'd love to see his mind fragment to the point where he loses his totalitarian control over Death and ends up with open civil war.
I think it would play well to stop him becoming too powerful in the setting. Right now every death is feeding fuel to his legions; every war and every battle that is waged is adding power to Nagash. Only a few of the Death Realms are holding out (Skaven holds out for example) whilst many others are falling to Nagash.
Nagash will fast end up, even with his Black Pyramid failing, with an overwhelming army compared to any other force. Even Sigmar can't compete with the sheer numbers since his Stormcast take time to be reforged and, whilst they are elite, Nagash has vast weight of numbers on his side.
Fragment Nagash and suddenly you can keep him working with each of the Death factions, but story wise no longer rule them all with a totalitarian level of control. Suddenly BOOM he's left fighting himself and his bid for supreme power is, for a few ages, broken.
It literally says "Supreme lord of the undead" on his box. It's not happening.
Hail Nagash.
As though Chaos aren't in the same boat.
I like the idea of a malicious force that isn't chaos being played as the underdog to really take on the big 4.
Sasori wrote: Yeah, I agree that this preview should show us the rest of the Lumineth models that are hinted, and probably a teaser of the Soulblight. I feel like the SB are probably pretty far off, so we are only going to get a model or two.
I am guessing this is going to be the AoS primarily, with maybe a small showing of dexes for 40k or something.
Sasori wrote: Yeah, I agree that this preview should show us the rest of the Lumineth models that are hinted, and probably a teaser of the Soulblight. I feel like the SB are probably pretty far off, so we are only going to get a model or two.
I am guessing this is going to be the AoS primarily, with maybe a small showing of dexes for 40k or something.
I'm expecting zero 40k.
Have they done one of these previews with zero 40k or AoS, besides like the BL one? Even if it's something small I imagine there will be something
Sasori wrote: Yeah, I agree that this preview should show us the rest of the Lumineth models that are hinted, and probably a teaser of the Soulblight. I feel like the SB are probably pretty far off, so we are only going to get a model or two.
I am guessing this is going to be the AoS primarily, with maybe a small showing of dexes for 40k or something.
I'm expecting zero 40k.
Have they done one of these previews with zero 40k or AoS, besides like the BL one? Even if it's something small I imagine there will be something
Sasori wrote: Yeah, I agree that this preview should show us the rest of the Lumineth models that are hinted, and probably a teaser of the Soulblight. I feel like the SB are probably pretty far off, so we are only going to get a model or two.
I am guessing this is going to be the AoS primarily, with maybe a small showing of dexes for 40k or something.
I'm expecting zero 40k.
Have they done one of these previews with zero 40k or AoS, besides like the BL one? Even if it's something small I imagine there will be something
I want to say we've seen a few of these mono-system things, but not too many. I'd expect this might be similar to the 9th edition launch announcement which was all 40kIIRC.
So like.
Why does every single thread no matter what just devolve into people complainging about prices.
None of these things are required purchases. ITs a hobby, we buy these to have fun. Why does it matter so much?
If it matters so much, wait for them to go on sale used, or buy at a discount.
Why does it matter so much to you that it matters to other people?
The prices are a relevant part of the hobby to many; even if they aren't to you, it takes remarkable lack of empathy to say "we do this hobby for fun, why does it matter if you can't afford it any more?" The "why" is right there in what you wrote...people don't like to be unable to enjoy the hobby they like because it costs too much. It takes effort *not* to understand that.
If it matters so much, wait for them to go on sale used, or buy at a discount.
Warhammer models don't depreciate over time.
Sure you get duel army boxes and Christmas boxes with discount, however its totally random what you get in them and what armies are supported. You could wait years and years to get the army you want and the models you want and many never appear in discount boxes.
Secondly 3rd party stores do discount, but the absolute best is around 30% (and I tend to only see that in the UK from stores that are small looking to make a name for themselves) and 10-25% is more normal.
After that if you mean for things like codex and rule books, the issue is that most places that are active tend to stay current. So you waiting for the next edition (might be years away again) means you're basically not able to game for a long while unless you always borrow books.
There are ways to discount hobby but it mostly relies on second hand hobbying which can be hit and miss. You're going to have to clean up models with odd paint schemes; deal with another persons building quality etc... Basically it has its downsides.
So yes price does become and important consideration, especially when we are seeing quite significant increases over time. This last year it stings even more for many because we know that whlist everyone has been hit hard with Corona, GW has had a bumper sales year - ergo they've done really really well. However many customers aren't necessarily doing so well.
Price is important and we all have our limit points on what we can justify for models.
IIRC it violates GW's policy to resell at a greater than 15% discount. It's not illegal or anything, but if they find out, they can revoke your ability to buy from them at wholesale prices.
yukishiro1 wrote: IIRC it violates GW's policy to resell at a greater than 15% discount. It's not illegal or anything, but if they find out, they can revoke your ability to buy from them at wholesale prices.
I think that's only a USA thing since Wayland and Firestorm (both big stores) have had and have greater than 15% discount. If it weren't legal in the UK system, GW would certainly have noticed.
If you think about how much enjoyment a box of models brings, building, playing, painting and much more, its great for its price compared to other hobbies( compared to my brother who spends thousands on fishing, but has days where he catches gak)
Like most of the older slaanesh stuff has been out for quite a bit, go look for discounts on those, then wait for when people decide to sell these.
As i tell people, this hobby is only as expensive as you let it be.
I love this hobby and the models. They’re really good sculpts and the game is fun. But there comes a point when the prices start taking this piss. And it’s rather disappointing so we talk about it because we want to enjoy the hobby but can’t.
Tiberius501 wrote: I love this hobby and the models. They’re really good sculpts and the game is fun. But there comes a point when the prices start taking this piss. And it’s rather disappointing so we talk about it because we want to enjoy the hobby but can’t.
I mean, GW isnt the only miniature maker that exists.
Of all the hobbies that exist, this one is pretty cheap and the models last way longer than anything.
And if you spend say, 600$ over a year building up a hobby, that army is, reasonably, going to last you forever, you get soooo much milage out of this hobby. So much entertainment.
IF you want to buy all at once it gets bad, but buy over time, a box here a box there, one or two a month.
Looking at all of slaanesh, there are likely tons of stuff out there used. buy those and then wait for these to go used.
After over 20 years of talking about things on the internet, I wonder why it is we can't come up with new single words to define things we've all seen thousands of times over, to save time. Like, "post that asks why people are discussing the thing about the thing that they're discussing on the discussion webpage for the thing, with reminder that participation with thing is not required under the law."
I feel like I've seen this post more times than I can count on a huge variety of topics, and I'm not knocking it, it just feels like we would save so much time if we had a shorthand and didn't have to rewrite it all every single time.
And to be back on track, I hope they show off more vampire models that I will also not feel able to afford this weekend. I think their grounded fantasy stuff is on a roll right now.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Of all the hobbies that exist, this one is pretty cheap and the models last way longer than anything.
And if you spend say, 600$ over a year building up a hobby, that army is, reasonably, going to last you forever, you get soooo much milage out of this hobby. So much entertainment
and here is the point, a 600$ isn't an army and will last until the next point adjustment
"the hobby" as "Wargaming and Miniatures TableTops" has seen a lot of change over time, and one big step was that with plastic miniatures, wargaming outside the small scale became affordable for many more
the time an affordable historical army was either limited to 1/72 bad quality PE plastic, or 1/100 (or smaller) metal and was still a big deal for most
than with 28mm HIPS, the prices came down to a fraction of the former 28mm metal armies, not only with historical games but also Warhammer dropped in price to become an option for more people
and now, with current GW prices, for 600 we are already talking about a "budget" army and the cost of a plastic GW army is now higher than for the former full metal armies that were to expensive for most people
GW's marketing is going the way that "the hobby" means "GW only" and not Wargaming/Miniature Games in general, but at the same time they are pricing people out of "the hobby"
frankelee wrote: And to be back on track, I hope they show off more vampire models that I will also not feel able to afford this weekend. I think their grounded fantasy stuff is on a roll right now.
It could be the moment to reveal what exactly the faction is going to entail in terms of any non-vampirical units, or indeed some actual vampirical elite infantry or the likes. Possibly mainly teasers, if the Lumineth are to be shown in full this time around.
Yeah unfortunately, if I wanted to ever start a new army again, it’d cost me $1500AUD. Which is a little bit silly for plastic models. They last forever for sure, but the amount of more useful stuff I could get for that is a lot more valuable.
If GW were a struggling company, I wouldn’t mind paying a little extra for such high quality models to try and support them more. But the fact that they’re making more than British gas and STILL upping the prices just feels kinda gross. I don’t feel like what I’m buying is worth it at this stage. And that’s basically my limit, others will have higher limits or lower limits, it depends on how much value you put on this hobby.
Anyway, I still get a box or so every now and again when I can (though I needed a shower after having to spend $200aud on 10 of the new AdMech winged bros haha). I just wish they’d give us a break and allow the hobby to breath for 5 seconds without slapping us with constant price hikes.
I should stop this discussion though because it’s a little off topic. It was more my disappointment because I would absolutely love to get a full army of Lumineth, the new stuff coming for them looks like they’re gonna be incredible. But man are they gonna cost too much. So I’ll just have to look at the cool pictures online and save up so I can one day buy a box haha.
Is it even an actual question or just trolling?
Why do people discuss pricing?
Cause people's budgets are not made of rubber, and for a lot of people, $50 for 10 toy soldier is quite a lot to ask.
As to why they want the new shiny thing over the old thing? Idk, you'd have to ask a psychologist or a behavioral scientist, but it's a fact, people just do.
frankelee wrote: After over 20 years of talking about things on the internet, I wonder why it is we can't come up with new single words to define things we've all seen thousands of times over, to save time. Like, "post that asks why people are discussing the thing about the thing that they're discussing on the discussion webpage for the thing, with reminder that participation with thing is not required under the law."
Then, I propose: "Price Post".
*BOOM* There ya go. Now we know you're bitching about the price of GW models. You've gotten it off your chest, and the rest of us are free to go about our day.
frankelee wrote: After over 20 years of talking about things on the internet, I wonder why it is we can't come up with new single words to define things we've all seen thousands of times over, to save time. Like, "post that asks why people are discussing the thing about the thing that they're discussing on the discussion webpage for the thing, with reminder that participation with thing is not required under the law."
Then, I propose: "Price Post".
*BOOM* There ya go. Now we know you're bitching about the price of GW models. You've gotten it off your chest, and the rest of us are free to go about our day.
Mmmm, that's good. But now I see the problem is the bloodlessness. For just a few more words we can improve "Price Post" to "These Prices ******* Suck Post."
Then you turn around and post, "WHY ALWAYS THE PRICE POST?"
Then the guy who's had enough of both of us can post "Go Meta-Post On Your Own Thread Post."
And yes we get off topic, but since GW only give us something to really talk about on the weekends, and yet we still want to come here and discuss nonsense to distract ourselves from the horror of existence, I think it's fair for the mods to give people good leeway from Mon-Thurs.
I was thinking about how awesome these new Slaanesh models would have been in the classic Chaos army though. Splitting up the "marauder" level troops by God, and letting them fill out the ranks in interesting ways. Slaanesh bowmen, Nurgle zombies, Tzeentch phalanxes, it would have made the army have a lot more table appeal than the huge squares of tightly posed Chaos Warriors that we actually had.
The price increase thing every few months is pretty damn dull by now, more so when people who have little to no interest in the product feel it necessary to weigh in (yet again). It is technically on topic for N&R but I really wish some people would just give it a rest, there must be more interesting things for them to post about.
Looking forward to seeing some of the new Lumineth stuff, hoping to be able to make a good and viable army out of just Vanari units as the various aspects things are just not doing it for me. Some more stuff about Soulblight would be cool as well, just finished reading the FEC battletome for the first time and whilst the models are not my cup of tea, the fluff was absolutely fantastic and I would love to see a continuation and expansion in the upcoming Vampire stuff.
If GW didn't raise prices every few months people wouldn't complain about them raising prices every few months. Seems like a shooting the messenger kind of thing to me.
I mean I get that lots of people don't care about prices and aren't interested in talking about it, but that seems like a case of just, well, don't engage? I mean like for example the rumor engine stuff doesn't do it for me - being deliberately left in the dark doesn't build hype for me, I just find it annoying and condescending - so I just skip posts related to that stuff. But it doesn't annoy me that other people want to talk about it and enjoy it.
yukishiro1 wrote: If GW didn't raise prices every few months people wouldn't complain about them raising prices every few months. Seems like a shooting the messenger kind of thing to me.
I mean I get that lots of people don't care about prices and aren't interested in talking about it, but that seems like a case of just, well, don't engage? I mean like for example the rumor engine stuff doesn't do it for me - being deliberately left in the dark doesn't build hype for me, I just find it annoying and condescending - so I just skip posts related to that stuff. But it doesn't annoy me that other people want to talk about it and enjoy it.
The difference, though, is that price-whining infects virtually every thread every week or two and is always the same bloody thing.
Well, it's the same bloody thing from GW that causes it. If price increase wasn't part of every new release since start of 2020, it wouldn't be part of every new release discussion.
If people stop complaining, that's when you have to worry about the game cause it means they stopped caring about GW games and moved on. You know, how it happened once already.
Cronch wrote: Well, it's the same bloody thing from GW that causes it. If price increase wasn't part of every new release since start of 2020, it wouldn't be part of every new release discussion.
If people stop complaining, that's when you have to worry about the game cause it means they stopped caring about GW games and moved on. You know, how it happened once already.
2020? New SKU's raising prices has been GW's strategy for lot longer than that. It's well over decade old strategy now GW adopted since they stopped yearly range wide price hikes.
started with the plastic Empire Greatswords
that was the first kit that saw an increase in price over previews models outside the yearly price adjustment
Some kits are pretty damned decent (Ossiarch Infantry, Night Goblins) as both kits give you a field able unit.
Witch Elves etc, not so much.
Actually, on Gobbos specifically.....
Whilst I went the bargain bin route of army sets via online discount, even bought separately they’re not terrible prices. Part of that is they don’t have super cheap points of WHFB.
A Max horde of 60 Night Goblins (gives you a 2+ To Wound, which is great) in WHFB was, what, 120/180ish before command? For Gloomspite, it’s 360 points. GW retail prices for three boxes? £75.00. £52.50 if bought from a FLGS with the same discount as Darksphere.
Roughly the same for 40 Ossiarch Infantry too.
Whilst not cheap, they offer better value than other ranges, which is inexcusable.
Be Careful What I Wish For, but a greater standardisation of prices would be nice.
I'm sure that the Ossiarch pricing was an experiment. I imagine one that didn't have the payoff they hoped for since they're back to price-hiking everything and making less and less models per box.
Yeah. I don't understand how they have boxes like kairic acolytes, ossiarch infantry, bloodreavers, etc... with detailed multicomponent new infantry at 20 for 40-45€ (So basically old 10 for 20€, that price you don't find oudside old stuff like Gors or dark elf infantry) and then monopose lumineth spearmen at 10 for 45€ and going up from that with new Mirmidesh.
I believe, the more they believe people want an army (Slaanesh and "high elves but aos" were two greately expected armies), the more they charge for it. Ossiarch were much more of a risk.
Not sure why people didn’t see the prices coming, Wrathmongers are $57 for 5 and that kits older than AoS itself is.
Idoneth Thralls are $50 for 10 minis with no customization.
Melusai are $54 for 5 with little to no customization.
These prices are consistent lol. Save the complaints for the unjust yearly price hike that includes kits that made their money back like 15-20 years ago.
zend wrote: Not sure why people didn’t see the prices coming
because those people either were not intrested in AoS releases before and used to older prices
or because did not follow the "price posts" coming with every release
so they came in, saw new Slaanesh models and were shocked by something that is "normal" for others who see it with every release
Also until its an army you want you don't really tend to keep an eye on updates and prices and such. High priced Lumineth Cavalry - I didn't want them so I wasn't looking or worrying about their price. I only noticed when I was looking for newer prices on cavalry and the new Slaanesh mounts were coming up.
Plus don't forget new prices from GW are at the full RRP whlist many buy from 3rd parties. So they are often comparing a discounted earlier price with a new p rice.
Overread wrote: Plus don't forget new prices from GW are at the full RRP whlist many buy from 3rd parties. So they are often comparing a discounted earlier price with a new p rice.
Right, but the discount price is still higher, so the costs are still increasing unless independents suddenly start slashing by 15%-25% (which they won't).
Even as one of the biggest critics about GW on here, even I'm bored of the pricing argument because the same people are just going to keep gobbling it up no matter what, thus incentivising them to raise them higher.
Except the prices are not consistent. Why are myrmidesh (and hammerelves) 5 to a box vs 10 for other 32mm infantry? Even Melusai are cheaper than them.
Why are LRL infantry 60 for 10 vs 50 for ten for Idoneth with actually less options?
Just gonna say, Bonereapers definitely lucked out with a 20man unit for $70, all things considered.
New kits tend to me more expensive, I was always told it was to take in account for future inflation so they wont need price increases for a longer period of time vs older kits. But, who knows.
for # of models per box, is it all based on how many spruces fit into a box? Only fit 2 or 3 in a box, and some kits have more options, or more bulky sculpts and take more space? Like, Mortek Guard are pretty mono-build and small, so they can fit more of them than perhaps some of the others?
It’s a pricing strategy. Drive prices of new releases upwards, create pricing disparity, announce broad range wide increase to correct disparity, rinse, repeat.
GW has a lot of boxes. Why pack 10 into a thinner box when you could back 20 into a box that's wider?
I mean we know why, cause two boxes of 60$ is more than one box of 60$, but as a customer, I couldn't care less about GW profit vs what I need to pay.
zend wrote: Not sure why people didn’t see the prices coming, Wrathmongers are $57 for 5 and that kits older than AoS itself is.
Idoneth Thralls are $50 for 10 minis with no customization.
You list the 3 kit that demonstrate the decline in GW effort and resource they put in these kits
Wrathmongers was a 3 sprue kit
Melusai and Thrall are 2 sprue kit sold at the same price before the price adjustment.
The Slaangors are on 1 sprue sold at the same price or comparable price to kits with double, or triple the amount of resource (and probably effort) to make them.
Now me being an ignorant person, I would just point finger and said "haha it's GW, price go up!" or "X number of models shouldn't cost this much!"
Or I can point out the continuing practice and trend of GW in their quest for the highest profit ever: the effort and resource in making these kits went down rapidly, while the price go up. This 1 sprue infantry s kit for 50 is really a milestone.
Kinda suck for people who'd been waiting for some of these unit for a long time, and finally get a low effort one from GW, and those won't be seeing a remake for the next 20-30 years.
That said some of the newer kit like Lumineth Wardens and Sentinels actually have okay price and comparable to similar kit 4-5 years ago.
JSG wrote: Using Wrathmongers as a benchmark for "effort and resource" put into kits is a bold move.
Right?
For the most part, their pricing is consistent. The only major outliers I can think of are Fyreslayers, the stupid Grinning Boner Men, and the Kairic Acolytes. Every other major release has had the infantry squads at $45-$50 for 10, including the Nighthaunt which are strictly monopose and ETB. The only questionable thing here is the Slaangor being $60 for 3 when the Tzaangors 3 man multi kit is under $50, even the Glutton King is cheaper than the similarly sized Black Coach.
Myrmydesh and Slaangors are the two "wtf" units. Myrmidesh because they are sold as "elite" units when they really aren't.
And Slaangors is just a abysmal kit. 37 fething pieces. WTF. Nearly 0 options for variance or customization. Compare it with the stone trolls. 91 pieces and a ton of customization for just 5€ more.
The Slaangor kit is downright embarrassing. It really feels to me like they just got bored partway through making a 10-man unit and were like "meh, just scale it up to 40mm and make it a 3 man and we'll charge 50 bucks for it. Job's a good 'un!"
Once more I feel the Wrathmonger was one of the last great multipart kits. Dual troop style, tons of optional parts, and easy to vary up the figures- I've built a mix of both troop types and have yet to really make any repeats.
Blight Kings were another solid option in terms of parts and build possibilities.
If the newer kits had similar options I think I'd be much less adverse to the prices.
I don't like sprue count as a measurement because it does not take into account the quality of those sprues.
I'm a lot happier paying buying 5 blightkings over 5 wrathmongers because despite being the same price, same level of detail, same type & number of models, the blightking is just better. I know, subjective argument, but that is also kinda the point as well.
Galas wrote: And Slaangors is just a abysmal kit. 37 fething pieces. WTF. Nearly 0 options for variance or customization. Compare it with the stone trolls. 91 pieces and a ton of customization for just 5€ more.
I see a few options on the Fiendbloods kit in the way of horns, tails, two different gilded weapons, one extra claw and other little bits of their outfits. And if those bits can be mixed and matched between the models (need to see the assembly instructions first) then there should be enough options for each slaangor in an average force to be unique.
I see a few options on the Fiendbloods kit in the way of horns, tails, two different gilded weapons, one extra claw and other little bits of their outfits. And if those bits can be mixed and matched between the models (need to see the assembly instructions first) then there should be enough options for each slaangor in an average force to be unique.
You get one extra horn and 2 weapons for the "slake-horn" build. You get 6 claws to build a 3 man squad without the "slake-horn"
Cronch wrote: Except the prices are not consistent. Why are myrmidesh (and hammerelves) 5 to a box vs 10 for other 32mm infantry? Even Melusai are cheaper than them.
Why are LRL infantry 60 for 10 vs 50 for ten for Idoneth with actually less options?
For lrl newer army. Simple as that
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Dread Master wrote: It’s a pricing strategy. Drive prices of new releases upwards, create pricing disparity, announce broad range wide increase to correct disparity, rinse, repeat.
Only issue is there's no constant price hikes to old kits. Gw stopped yearly hikes in favour of upping prices of new kits compared to equilavent older kits.
Dread Master wrote: It’s a pricing strategy. Drive prices of new releases upwards, create pricing disparity, announce broad range wide increase to correct disparity, rinse, repeat.
Only issue is there's no constant price hikes to old kits. Gw stopped yearly hikes in favour of upping prices of new kits compared to equilavent older kits.
With the exception of... the two general price hikes they have done in this past two years? Like Basic ogors going from 32,50€ to 39€ and a TON of other kits going up in cost?
Thats the problem. They said "We are gonna make new things more expensive to stop the price hikes in old stuff". We believed it. And then they started again doing general price hikes.
Dread Master wrote: It’s a pricing strategy. Drive prices of new releases upwards, create pricing disparity, announce broad range wide increase to correct disparity, rinse, repeat.
Only issue is there's no constant price hikes to old kits. Gw stopped yearly hikes in favour of upping prices of new kits compared to equilavent older kits.
With the exception of... the two general price hikes they have done in this past two years? Like Basic ogors going from 32,50€ to 39€ and a TON of other kits going up in cost?
Thats the problem. They said "We are gonna make new things more expensive to stop the price hikes in old stuff". We believed it. And then they started again doing general price hikes.
No idea when (or if) they actually said that. Don't know why you'd believe it, however. There certainly wasn't ever any reason to.
The big problem with price hikes on the old stuff is its just greedy. Plastic costs are basically peanuts. Once they've recouped the design costs and mold costs, their expenses on old kits bottom out at electricity, labor and maintenance (all of which are part of the regular day-to-day expenses). The price hikes don't have any justification other than 'they can.'
it isn't like the market fluctuations of white metal, which could rise above their projected costs.
Cronch wrote: Except the prices are not consistent. Why are myrmidesh (and hammerelves) 5 to a box vs 10 for other 32mm infantry? Even Melusai are cheaper than them.
Why are LRL infantry 60 for 10 vs 50 for ten for Idoneth with actually less options?
For lrl newer army. Simple as that
The Lumineth Archers are 1.5 sprue kit for 5 men, So in a 10 men box you get double of that. The blind Elf are 2 sprue kit for 10 men. It's one of the more reasonably price (pretty much 30$ for 5) GW kit in modern day, comparing to kit like low effort Slaangors.
The big problem with price hikes on the old stuff is its just greedy.
Let's be real, most of GW pricing is based on greed. They are a corporation, they will try to maximize profit as much as humanely possible, even if it seems sleazy, cause...they can get away with it.
JSG wrote: I'm surprised none of these people have tried to organise a boycott.
If disgruntled Warhammer fans want collective action all they need to do is buy 3D printers, find a guy willing to contract digital sculptors to make original designs of the models they want, and they pay him $10 each every month on Patreon. You'll have all the Hedonistites models you could ever want, complete with Mymidire Warriors, Blisterblight archers, and the infamous Retainer of Things To Keep Quiet.
More like what are we supposed to boycott; it is not all the minis or all the new minis, it is only some of them. And whether the price is acceptable or not varies dramatically based on subjective opinion of a given item. A boycott would amount to 'don't buy the things you think are overpriced' which is... what people do anyways.
Another impracticality is say, a boycott is to last for a year. There would be a surge of purchases both at the start and the end of the boycott as people build up a backlog to work on/fill in gaps of their hobby line which have built up during that period. And seven if creating a successful multi-year boycott until GW responds will run into the first issue where people will individually decide at different points that prices have fallen enough for them to end it.
But to end on a positive note; the range-wide price increases are vastly reduced once inflation is factored in. And newer more expensive kits are providing a higher quality product than older sculpts using less advanced production techniques. So it isn't ALL just GW screwing us.
Boycotts don't work anyway in this situation. Either you collect their miniatures or you play their games - mostly both. That's why you buy GW products. You can buy miniatures in other companies, sure, but that limits where and with whom you play. Not everyone can afford themselves that luxury.
If you keep buying other GW products, that just means their sale statistics shift in another category - but they don't lose any money here and won't make them change their strategy. At most, it'll just hurt the army you intended to play first.
About the 3D printer's "revolution"...it's the same reason in the end why people keep buying sandwiches instead of making them themselves even though it's cheaper : because it still takes time and investment...or people just like the service. If it was easy without any disadvantages, it would already have happened a long time ago.
Also...GW fantasy and SF plastic miniatures are still on the top in their category. Period. No other company puts as much investment as them on that matter on long term. That's not the same level of an individual with a 3D printer or a band of patreon 3D sculptors, no matter how good or passionate they are. Numbers matter as well as quality...and there is a price to it, like it or not.
Well, not to flex my awesome business knowledge, but to say 3D printers can't effect the miniature gaming industry or they would have done so long ago, would be the equivalent to saying streaming services can't topple Blockbuster or else they would have a long time ago... in 2010. I mean, if the opportunity comes up to gamble on that proposition, I know which way my money's going, but people are free to take their own counsel.
While GW does invest heavily in their product, at the end of the day you can only put so much into something before there's no gain left to be had. I know GW justifies their silly prices that way to consumers who want their minds soothed, but the fact is you pay a design artist, you pay a sculptor, you make a tiny statue out of plastic material. These things only cost so much, and anymore money thrown at them doesn't improve the end product. Absolutely freelance artists not only can, BUT HAVE made models as good as GW's. And while there are skeptics out there because they haven't done the research or seen results first hand, even low cost consumer grade resin printers can now print miniatures of equal detail to the human eye as GW's. Maybe under a microscope there's a difference, but there's no difference that anyone on Earth can see.
So while my comment before was largely made in jest, if a rich guy wanted to destroy GW's policy of charging $30-50 for infantry hero models, an investment of $100,000 (of which he'd make it all back and then some) would tank their prices inside of a year. That's just a business and manufacturing reality.
I'd answer that question by exploding the oft seen myth regular people have that if a possible business idea that would make money is out there, someone always sees it, jumps on it, and does it right away.
It's not just that this doesn't ALWAYS happen, it's that it rarely happens. And most of the business world revolves around the idea that it rarely happens. The world here works the exact opposite way of how people think it does.
Why didn't somebody build a successful theme park before Walt Disney, I guess they just didn't like money back then. Why didn't anybody build the Panama Canal back when Europeans discovered America and wanted a trade route to Asia? What they didn't have shovels? That a business opportunity is unfulfilled means absolutely nothing to the worthiness of that business idea.
i think you are severly underestimating GW brand power would be hard for a company to topple them, even if they propose a better product at a better price
frankelee wrote: I'd answer that question by exploding the oft seen myth regular people have that if a possible business idea that would make money is out there, someone always sees it, jumps on it, and does it right away.
It's not just that this doesn't ALWAYS happen, it's that it rarely happens. And most of the business world revolves around the idea that it rarely happens. The world here works the exact opposite way of how people think it does.
Why didn't somebody build a successful theme park before Walt Disney, I guess they just didn't like money back then. Why didn't anybody build the Panama Canal back when Europeans discovered America and wanted a trade route to Asia? What they didn't have shovels? That a business opportunity is unfulfilled means absolutely nothing to the worthiness of that business idea.
People have been predicting 3d printer takeover for like a decade. Why none here who propose it actually do it? If there's one to be had first one will be richest. One might think at least one guy tried. Streamers did. That's how they got where they are. Business doesnt land on your lap automatically unlike 3d printer proponents seems to think.
We're just talking about some minor price changes through competition and an evolving market here. This sort of stuff has happened to companies like McDonalds, Apple, Facebook... GW's brand power is hardly anything to brag about by comparison to these companies. GW is a big fish in a tiny pond, with very, very little competition, in a industry that's hardly filled with visionaries or much in the way of talent. They're nothing special in that regard.
frankelee wrote: I'd answer that question by exploding the oft seen myth regular people have that if a possible business idea that would make money is out there, someone always sees it, jumps on it, and does it right away.
It's not just that this doesn't ALWAYS happen, it's that it rarely happens. And most of the business world revolves around the idea that it rarely happens. The world here works the exact opposite way of how people think it does.
Why didn't somebody build a successful theme park before Walt Disney, I guess they just didn't like money back then. Why didn't anybody build the Panama Canal back when Europeans discovered America and wanted a trade route to Asia? What they didn't have shovels? That a business opportunity is unfulfilled means absolutely nothing to the worthiness of that business idea.
People have been predicting 3d printer takeover for like a decade. Why none here who propose it actually do it? If there's one to be had first one will be richest. One might think at least one guy tried. Streamers did. That's how they got where they are. Business doesnt land on your lap automatically unlike 3d printer proponents seems to think.
Gw ain't in danger by 3d printers for decades.
Considering high quality, consumer grade liquid resin printers have been widely available for 18 months... I think you are all are a bit under-researched. The fact is, most miniature gamers who will go on to own a resin printer probably don't even own one yet. So this argument that it would have happened by now, it's not tethered to anything in reality.
And, of course, somebody still has to do it. Plenty of industries have been filled with dinosaurs just waiting for a long overdue meteor. Again, the idea that somebody instantly takes on a business idea, it's just 101-level incorrect.
3D printing taking away from GW is the same as Resin casting has
everyone can do it at home and it is "cheaper" than buying from GW (but only on a material cost point of view and only compared to GW pricing)
for most it is still too much work as GW's main costumers are those who like ETB Marines
and those won't invest the time needed to make an army at home with some time wasted for "trial and error"
this is again a hype were people see GW dead because their price is too high for the competition while market is changing as well and "cheaper but takes more time and work" is no real competition to GW
3D printing needs to be way more convenient than it is to pose a risk.
I'd gladly play around with it, but the amount of prep and fiddling with the machine and files makes it a waste of time- I'm not a 3d printing hobbyist, so none of it, no doubt fascinating, is for me.
Yeah, the problem with 3D printing is threefold: quality, price, convenience.
Same with any new process.
LCD resin printers have aced the quality and price barriers now but convenience is still an absolute barrier to a lot of folk.
Consider that to print a mini you have to:
Obtain a model
Get that model converted to a format your printer can work with
Wait 2-3 hours for the print to finish
Clean up (at minimum there will be supports; for resin there is also washing and curing). Assuming the print doesn’t fail entirely in the meantime of course.
Before you can start painting.
When they get to the same ease of use and reliability as a regular old document printer, then you will see major market disruption.
And even when printing got cheap for ink/laser printers you saw damn few people printing books on them vs buying professionally published book. Convenience won out on price, and then e-readers happened. It'd be hilarious if some sort of cheap holography overtook 3D printing for this purpose .
Is the new Daughters of Khane stuff out this weekend? We didn’t get a shipment of new stuff yet this week, and GW’s site still lists them under PreOrders and not New Stuff. Just an un/expected delay or coming next week or anyone know anything?
AduroT wrote: Is the new Daughters of Khane stuff out this weekend? We didn’t get a shipment of new stuff yet this week, and GW’s site still lists them under PreOrders and not New Stuff. Just an un/expected delay or coming next week or anyone know anything?
They announced delays on Wednesday. Some places haven't been affected(my local shops got their stuff, but we're close to TN) but others will have been.
If your shops didn't get their orders by Thursday? They're likely not going to have gotten them.
GW's "preorders" don't normally update till later in the day on a Saturday. I think they only update once the last timezone is reached so it goes up with the community webpage post advertising all the changes
Thanks for the info on the website timing! Guessing ours got lost in the weather. The other stores still got their stuff. That’s starting to seem like a pattern with our GW orders lately...
One thing to note is that "other stores" might be using third party distributors. They tend to ship things out whenever. I have a local GW and a local independent, and they don't use GW as a distributor so sometimes will have the new releases out as early as Thursday nights.
Cronch wrote: If you haven't noticed by now that AoS is *not* "closer to Tolkien" in design, then uh...I don't know what to say. But it's not, and complaining that it's not when it's never been seems kind of counterproductive?
well it seems now a month and a half later with the new Deathrattle teaser that things have changed. Those Zombies and Skeletons look INCREDIBLE compared to the bonereapers. I'm excited!
AduroT wrote: Thanks for the info on the website timing! Guessing ours got lost in the weather. The other stores still got their stuff. That’s starting to seem like a pattern with our GW orders lately...
Our FLGS just got the stuff in the other day, due to the weather delay.
I do not know if it is anyway related to the hedonites
release this month but I noticed the Slaanesh Herald (Viceleader)
was removed from GW site for both AoS and 40K.
Granted it was the last finecast figure from the Slaanesh deamon
range.
In the reveal show they talked about "Many more small heroes coming in the near months". They revealed a Stormcast, a Nighthaunt and a Soulblight Gravelords. It seems that a single small hero is gonna be released soon for every faction. It would make sense for Slaanesh to be the Viceleader.
I sort of figured it would be a boxset with Stormcast vs Nighthaunts, and they'd release the new nighthaunt and Gardus in that. As for the soulblight, the wight is probably just part of that inevitable release
Yoid wrote: In the reveal show they talked about "Many more small heroes coming in the near months". They revealed a Stormcast, a Nighthaunt and a Soulblight Gravelords. It seems that a single small hero is gonna be released soon for every faction. It would make sense for Slaanesh to be the Viceleader.
Well a plastic Viceleader would be an instant buy for me for sure!
Yoid wrote: In the reveal show they talked about "Many more small heroes coming in the near months". They revealed a Stormcast, a Nighthaunt and a Soulblight Gravelords. It seems that a single small hero is gonna be released soon for every faction. It would make sense for Slaanesh to be the Viceleader.
Well a plastic Viceleader would be an instant buy for me for sure!
It's very very odd that GW has given Slaanesh 2 big model range updates and yet didn't replace the finecast herald in either one. I'd love to see it replaced and have Slaanesh be one of the few fully plastic armies. If they are holding back for a steady drip feed of new heroes then that's a good thing. Heck I'm glad that GW has realised that they don't just have to do big model launches and that even 1 nice new model every now and then helps keep interest up in other armies that might not have a big production slot for years to come.
Then again Slaanesh did get a new hero in the Lord of Pain and that might count as their "hero" release; just like Daughters of Khaine got the new snake leader.
With how much nostalgia the design team has for older models, I'm sure that there will be more down the line for Slaanesh hero wise. The mounted champion of Slaanesh is just too iconic to ignore, even if they decide to take the boobs off the boob snake. (Which is fine by me, as I dont like that element very much, though the meme of "boob snake" would be missed.)
They could easily cover them like they did with the new seekers; by placing a metal plate over them as armour. (which isn't even a new idea as the chariot seekers already had chest plates on them from years back).
I don't know if GW is "against" boobies though - the Bloodwrack from Daughters of Khaine has one exposed and it hardly ever gets a mention anywhere. Granted she's not as famous for it as the boob-snake is
Overread wrote: They could easily cover them like they did with the new seekers; by placing a metal plate over them as armour. (which isn't even a new idea as the chariot seekers already had chest plates on them from years back).
I don't know if GW is "against" boobies though - the Bloodwrack from Daughters of Khaine has one exposed and it hardly ever gets a mention anywhere. Granted she's not as famous for it as the boob-snake is
I don't see a reimagining of the boob-snake being a problem...
To be honest, I'm kind of hopeful they ditch the boobs; after seeing the new seekers and how they look more like some kind of strange but believable form of wild life in the realms I think it would be a good design choice for alot of the mortals of chaos mounts. Save the crazy stuff for full demons.
The seekers are demons. They are monsters from the chaos realm brought into the Mortal Realms. The big difference is that the Mortal Realms have so much magic flying around that demons can manifest and maintain form within the realms for prolonged periods without difficulty.
In the Old World setting and in 40K they tend to require summoning and will only last for a short time before vanishing back. That is excluding certain regions of high chaos corruption (eg Eye of Terror in 40K or the Chaos Wastes in Old World).
Though it seems there are still limits in the Mortal Realms and the Exalted Seekers are said to be able to last far longer than regular seekers. It's why, even though they are rarer, they are gifted to mortals as mounts (since a mortal can't vanish in and out of the warp like demons can).
Yes, but regardless of what they are lorewise, they LOOK like they could be real animals. or at least a real as a sea horse-gold fish-dinosaur could look real.
Overread wrote: The seekers are demons. They are monsters from the chaos realm brought into the Mortal Realms. The big difference is that the Mortal Realms have so much magic flying around that demons can manifest and maintain form within the realms for prolonged periods without difficulty.
In the Old World setting and in 40K they tend to require summoning and will only last for a short time before vanishing back. That is excluding certain regions of high chaos corruption (eg Eye of Terror in 40K or the Chaos Wastes in Old World).
Though it seems there are still limits in the Mortal Realms and the Exalted Seekers are said to be able to last far longer than regular seekers. It's why, even though they are rarer, they are gifted to mortals as mounts (since a mortal can't vanish in and out of the warp like demons can).
From page 48 of the Hedonites of Slaanesh battletome:
Unlike the lesser mounts ridden by Hellstriders, Exalted Steeds are capable of persisting in the material realm far longer than most daemons. They achieve this via the devotion lathered upon them by their mortal riders; through profane ritual and the wilful mingling of blood, these two entities become almost inseparable
Yoid wrote: In the reveal show they talked about "Many more small heroes coming in the near months". They revealed a Stormcast, a Nighthaunt and a Soulblight Gravelords. It seems that a single small hero is gonna be released soon for every faction. It would make sense for Slaanesh to be the Viceleader.
Well a plastic Viceleader would be an instant buy for me for sure!
It's very very odd that GW has given Slaanesh 2 big model range updates and yet didn't replace the finecast herald in either one.
I think its a situation that comes up with a few other models (like the transcendent c'tan): the slaanesh herald exists inside another kit- the chariots. You can build it as the other chariot type and have a 'leftover' herald model to use on foot. It looks a little underwhelming on its own, but technically exists, at least for the purposes of having a model with rules.
Yoid wrote: In the reveal show they talked about "Many more small heroes coming in the near months". They revealed a Stormcast, a Nighthaunt and a Soulblight Gravelords. It seems that a single small hero is gonna be released soon for every faction. It would make sense for Slaanesh to be the Viceleader.
Well a plastic Viceleader would be an instant buy for me for sure!
Potentially worth noting that I don’t think they said that.
But more Many factions will be getting, or several factions. Something along those lines wasn’t it?
Just need to get the wording right before we throw up our arms about X or Y faction not getting a character.
(If it was indeed how they worded it. But that’s what I seemed to take away from it).
Bunch of resin Soulblight sculpts just went No Longer Available in Australia
- Vlad
- Isabella
- Krell
- Heinrich Kemmler
- Winged Vampire Lord
- Blood Knights
Konrad and Mounted Mannfred are still available.
Obviously we know that Soulblight is on the way, notably a plastic footslogging Vampire Lord, but it feels too soon, especially with Lumineth having just had their preview as the next army.
But other than the Blood Knights, GW wouldn't bother repackaging any of those, surely? Soulblight closer than we think?
It's too soon unless GW is doing lumineth VS soulblight launches. However it might be that they aren't making any more of the finecast models and are just letting them run out overseas and such and not shipping any more this late in the process. Esp when stuff is being delayed overseas. Last thing they want is to launch a new army the week the replacement models finally arrive.
Just remember if anything gets reboxed it generates a new product code in the system so old products can be removed from sale and returned and GW has been REALLY hit and miss for removing finecast/metals (esp in AoS - heck Skaven even gained a metal model!)
That said it seems like Vampires are a total rework and thus many of those old models I'd expect to go and be replaced like for like or in kind
Overread wrote: It's too soon unless GW is doing lumineth VS soulblight launches. However it might be that they aren't making any more of the finecast models and are just letting them run out overseas and such and not shipping any more this late in the process. Esp when stuff is being delayed overseas. Last thing they want is to launch a new army the week the replacement models finally arrive.
Gw didn't say lumineth is next though. Order couldd be soulblight-lumineth. We know lumineth comes within 3 months. That's long schedule
Overread wrote: It's too soon unless GW is doing lumineth VS soulblight launches. However it might be that they aren't making any more of the finecast models and are just letting them run out overseas and such and not shipping any more this late in the process. Esp when stuff is being delayed overseas. Last thing they want is to launch a new army the week the replacement models finally arrive.
Gw didn't say lumineth is next though. Order couldd be soulblight-lumineth. We know lumineth comes within 3 months. That's long schedule
We’ve seen all of Lumineth, and we’ve seen one official and one leaked Soulblight model. I’d put money on Lumineth coming first.
NinthMusketeer wrote: The next Broken Realms book is Teclis invading Shyish. Lumineth vs Soulblight seems pretty much a given.
We already know who’s covered in Teclis, I think death is Ossiarch and FEC. I imagine Soulblight will get a battletome after it similar to Slaanesh between BR 1 and 2.
Yeah if GW puts Soulblight before Lumineth then they've seriously messed up their marketing somewhere.
Lumineth will be first out the gate along with the Teclis book. Heck perhaps the events of that book build into what causes the Vampires to be unleashed upon the mortal realms en-mass as opposed to remaining in the shadows here and there doing little things and mostly in-fighting.
Soulblight also don't need an expansion book; they need a full battletome.
Apologies, what I meant was that it makes sense for Soulblight to get their battletome close to BR Teclis and feature in its story, not actually get content IN the campaign book. I was unclear.
Tim the Biovore wrote: Bunch of resin Soulblight sculpts just went No Longer Available in Australia
- Vlad
- Isabella
- Krell
- Heinrich Kemmler
- Winged Vampire Lord
- Blood Knights
Konrad and Mounted Mannfred are still available.
Obviously we know that Soulblight is on the way, notably a plastic footslogging Vampire Lord, but it feels too soon, especially with Lumineth having just had their preview as the next army.
But other than the Blood Knights, GW wouldn't bother repackaging any of those, surely? Soulblight closer than we think?
IT's actually frustrating what's disappearing - I preferred Kemmler to the current plastic Necromancer and Krell is the only option atm for a Wight King with Black Axe.
The myriad vampires...fair enough. Could be argued the Soulblight warband for Underworlds fills that gap - to be fair, at the current pricing it's basically 2 vamps and 2 free so...
Seeing the mounted Wight King gives me some hope though. Maybe there's more on the way. A mounted Vampire similar to the Red Duke from 5th edition? Maybe we'll see the 'return' of Kemmler and Krell though to be honest Krell's sculpt was absolutely beautiful so it's a shame to lose that. But updates with nods to the older sculpts would be nice.
I really hope they reintroduce Krell. His background was nice, his last mini was one of the best and most characterful in the entire undead range and he could easily be a first named character if they want to make normal scellies somewhat more independent from the vampires armywise.
IT's actually frustrating what's disappearing - I preferred Kemmler to the current plastic Necromancer and Krell is the only option atm for a Wight King with Black Axe.
The models are well over 20 years old, not like they're pulling them before giving you a chance to buy them...
IT's actually frustrating what's disappearing - I preferred Kemmler to the current plastic Necromancer and Krell is the only option atm for a Wight King with Black Axe.
The models are well over 20 years old, not like they're pulling them before giving you a chance to buy them...
Krell wasn't over 20 years old. Kemmler was, true but also a very, very iconic sculpt complete with some BL history with Gotrek and Felix.
The Eldar Avatar is even older. Don't see that being discontinued?
For the record, this sort of response? Not useful, contributes nothing and just comes across as someone trying to snark. Sorry I didn't decide to look at a Death army til recently. My bad.
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Shadox wrote: I really hope they reintroduce Krell. His background was nice, his last mini was one of the best and most characterful in the entire undead range and he could easily be a first named character if they want to make normal scellies somewhat more independent from the vampires armywise.
To be fair, they've shown us with Sigvald that even characters who 'died' in the World That Was can be brought back to life and not just through Chaos. Sigvald only came back out of Nagash's spite. Not hard to imagine Nagash having a beef against Kemmler who was very, very independant from him.
We know luminary are the next tome as it comes alongside or just after Teclis.
As they said the whole don’t need to buy the new book if you have the old one, just get Teclis
Krell's sculpt was superb.
Kemmler was well, old but still.
Both characters could make a comeback in plastic, it would be nice to see
something more in brand with classic undead after all these nighthaunt and ossiarch waves.
Eldar Avatar isn't being discontinued because GW aren't doing an Eldar line revamp right now. That said I think everyone expects it to be retired and replaced with a huge plastic sculpt that equals the Greater Demons of today - which is what the Avatar is supposed to be going into fights against one-on-one.
As for retired models, I think most should have noticed that when GW updates an AoS (or any) army there's a high chance of finecast and metal models being retired, esp when we know in advance that the vampire update is pretty big.
It can be hit and miss, Skaven lost, I think, one model from a damaged mould and gained one that get released again in metal; but otherwise basically didn't lose anything moving over. Meanwhile other forces have "lost" more or had things upgrade and replaced.
And some had oddities like the Slaanesh Heraled still being in Finecast despite two major line updates to the range.
Basically if its metal or finecast and you really want it - get it - because it will go out of production at some stage; especially near to when an army is known to be getting an update.
As for coming back, we might get some come back as they were; others might be coming back in spirit but not in kind. Eg a model that copies the same tropes and design concepts, but is of a different character entirely.
Anyone have a picture of the white dwarf from Feb that had this Brooken a Realms/New Edition ‘leak’ type info in?
Saying it’s just the three books or something?
As for coming back, we might get some come back as they were; others might be coming back in spirit but not in kind. Eg a model that copies the same tropes and design concepts, but is of a different character entirely.
I'm suspecting considering the High Elf nods on the Lumineth and the classic model nods on the mounted Wight King we're likely to see Kemmler and Krell again, or at least very faithful revamps of them. To be honest I wouldn't be surpsied to see a 'Master Necromancer' character with a Kemmler-inspired sculpt to represent it. And to be fair, a Wight Lord one step above a Wight King would be nice too. With a Black Axe of course.
And who knows, perhaps they'll be new characters for the revamp.
With the Vampires? The Underworlds Warband. Well, Macepire has clear nods to Mannfred, the leader has clear nods to Vlad and some could argue the fem-vamp has nods to Isabella (though to be honest, frilly dress Isabella is a thing).
r retired models, I think most should have noticed that when GW updates an AoS (or any) army there's a high chance of finecast and metal models being retired, esp when we know in advance that the vampire update is pretty big.
I think it's a bit iffy to assume too much about a 'big vampire update.' There is clearly some death stuff coming, but it's not at all clear how big or how much will be vamps.
That we saw packaging for "Soulblight Gravelords" seems to point towards something big coming for Vampires, if I'm going to be honest.
"Soulblight" is a specific term used for the Vampire curse now. "Gravelords" is a term we've not had yet. That the leaked Vampire Lord had "Soulblight Gravelords"(faction name) and "Vampire Lord"(model name) seems to indicate that something is going to happen.
It remains to be seen what will actually be happening but given that the theme of Broken Realms seems to be breaking things...maybe Soulblight is going to get carved out of Legions of Nagash or something like that.
Kanluwen wrote: That we saw packaging for "Soulblight Gravelords" seems to point towards something big coming for Vampires, if I'm going to be honest.
"Soulblight" is a specific term used for the Vampire curse now. "Gravelords" is a term we've not had yet. That the leaked Vampire Lord had "Soulblight Gravelords"(faction name) and "Vampire Lord"(model name) seems to indicate that something is going to happen.
It remains to be seen what will actually be happening but given that the theme of Broken Realms seems to be breaking things...maybe Soulblight is going to get carved out of Legions of Nagash or something like that.
That or the legion will change. Right now the majority of the legion models are either vampires or skeletons.
Looking at the webstore(I don't own the book and the warscroll builder doesn't let me just view Legions of Nagash stuff sadly), it feels like most of the heroes are Vampires and the troop selection is skeletons/zombies with a light sprinkling of spoopy bats and a vampire unit/warmachine-ish bit.
It's just a feeling I've got with regards to the Soulblight thing. Might be entirely wrong, but the Soulblight becoming their own faction(Gravelords) and then having a Stormkeep style of being able to take a certain amount of Legions of Nagash, Ossiarch, or FEC could be an interesting route.
As I see it the big question is what are GW's intentions with regular skeletons. If they are being rolled in as the troop component of vampire forces then that's basically the entire current Legion of Nagash.
However GW could very well have vampires be their own thing and splinter out of the Legion and then later boost the Legion significantly with a lot more regular skeletons to reflect Nagash's skeleton forces. Yes he's got his elite guard in the Ossiarchs, but the lore is chock full of him using regular skeleton undead (even so far as having legions of them marching across his realm to each bring back a single grain of sand!)
One kit I'm curious on is if the zombie kit will survive this update! It's probably one of GW's most ugly kits that even a good paint job won't easily save.
Based off Cursed City, I think we'll see zombies reimagined into the grave-back guys and gals. Those zombies don't have any special name and, like them or hate them, they're a unique take on the walking dead.
The corpse cart is a great model, but I think we'll see that get redesigned too. Maybe as a big center piece model
I knew the day for Krell would come. Thats why I bought him 2 years ago even if I don't play any form of undead in fantasy. But his sculpt was just soo good.
I have used him many times as a undead-chaos lord on my khorne army.
I really think that Soulblight Gravelords will replace LoN, otherwise it would just be Soulblight "Something". "Gravelords" sounds to me as be a generic term for any undead force/ruler.
We'll see how it plays out. I don't see Legions of Nagash going away, I do see the potential for a niche being carved out for Soulblight Vampires as an independent faction that has the ability to pull a Cities of Sigmar or Stormkeep from BR: Morathi and take a certain amount of LoN stuff in.
We'll see how it plays out. I don't see Legions of Nagash going away, I do see the potential for a niche being carved out for Soulblight Vampires as an independent faction that has the ability to pull a Cities of Sigmar or Stormkeep from BR: Morathi and take a certain amount of LoN stuff in.
That would be my hope - but I am not sure that GW will allow mixed Death/Order Factions - even though it would only amount to a few word changes.
When I say "ability to pull a Cities of Sigmar or Stormkeep"...I mean that they would allow for you to do the whole "1 in 4 units can be taken from Legions of Nagash" schtick.
If they wanted to go for something really fun? They could take Deathrattle stuff out of Legions of Nagash and put it with Gravelords, then fold Ossiarch and Nighthaunt in with the Legions.
IT's actually frustrating what's disappearing - I preferred Kemmler to the current plastic Necromancer and Krell is the only option atm for a Wight King with Black Axe.
The models are well over 20 years old, not like they're pulling them before giving you a chance to buy them...
Krell wasn't over 20 years old. Kemmler was, true but also a very, very iconic sculpt complete with some BL history with Gotrek and Felix.
The Eldar Avatar is even older. Don't see that being discontinued?
For the record, this sort of response? Not useful, contributes nothing and just comes across as someone trying to snark. Sorry I didn't decide to look at a Death army til recently. My bad.
The sculpts might've been iconic (Krell was nice, I thought Kemmler was goofy in the same way original clown Nagash was, since they date back to the same design era). Avatar is not getting discontinued because GW doesn't care for eldar one bit.
The reply was not snarky, the reply was just stating the somewhat obvious fact that those models were old and have been available for a long time (and yes, Krell is rather younger sculpt, I forgot, but it's still been years since it was released), at some point they have to be replaced, no company can afford to produce every model it designed from the start of time, you can't buy Model T from Ford dealership either.
I can see them making a new model to replace Krell's generic HQ slot. The model itself is fantastic, but it's also finecast, so I can't see it sticking around.
As for Legions of Nagash, I can see them being rolled into Soulblight. Look at what they did with Ironjawz and Bonesplittaz. They just got merged into one large faction. Same with how Beastclaw raiders were pushed back into Ogor Mawtribes. I'm sure both books let you do solely ironjawz, beastclaw armies, etc, but the recent trend was to combine similar factions into one
Legions of Nagash already exists and Soulblight is a subfaction within it.
Soulblight Gravelords, whatever it actually will be, is a new faction tag. We've only seen it because someone leaked the packaging for the upcoming Vampire Lord on foot model which has it.
Carlovonsexron wrote: Isnt the writing on the wall for the vampires coming as an undead faction independent of Nagash?
That seems to be the jist of the upcoming book, the Lumineth finding a way to loosen Nagash's grip on all things dead.
That's a fandom meme. A bit like how vampirates were inevitable because muh vidya.
The second part is a fandom meme, yes. All that's known so far about Broken Realms: Teclis is that Teclis is invading Shyish.
We don't know what is happening with regards to the actual fallout of the book or whatnots. Cannot stress this part enough. All we have is leaked packaging for a "Soulblight Gravelords Vampire Lord". Maybe they're adding "Gravelords" to the Soulblight tag within Legions of Nagash. Maybe it's expanding Soulblight into a full-sized faction ala Daughters of Khaine.
Soulblight is it's own allegiance--not a sub-faction. And it actually has a decent number of plastic options surprisingly enough. That said it is not viewed as a 'real' army because the two-page allegiance abilities just aren't enough to make them viable. Presumably Soulblight Gravelords is an update to this, getting an extra adjectivenoun in the title because armies aren't allowed to have one-word names. Alternatively they are a replacement for LoN as a whole, but personally I think that is less likely.
Either way it is an update to an existing allegiance rather than a totally new one. My bet is it will be Soulblight but with a 1-per-4 rule on deathratte and zombies.
Also worth note is that "soulblight" is not the AoS term for vampire--they are a specific type of vampire. Ghoul kings are another, and we have seen mention of a potential third kind in White Dwarf (which may be tied to some of the new WQ models).
Are Malignants still a thing? They've got a Start Collecting thing, but with the exception of the Mortis Engine, Nighthaunts have the spooky ghost faction covered
IT's actually frustrating what's disappearing - I preferred Kemmler to the current plastic Necromancer and Krell is the only option atm for a Wight King with Black Axe.
The models are well over 20 years old, not like they're pulling them before giving you a chance to buy them...
Krell wasn't over 20 years old. Kemmler was, true but also a very, very iconic sculpt complete with some BL history with Gotrek and Felix.
The Eldar Avatar is even older. Don't see that being discontinued?
For the record, this sort of response? Not useful, contributes nothing and just comes across as someone trying to snark. Sorry I didn't decide to look at a Death army til recently. My bad.
The sculpts might've been iconic (Krell was nice, I thought Kemmler was goofy in the same way original clown Nagash was, since they date back to the same design era). Avatar is not getting discontinued because GW doesn't care for eldar one bit.
The reply was not snarky, the reply was just stating the somewhat obvious fact that those models were old and have been available for a long time (and yes, Krell is rather younger sculpt, I forgot, but it's still been years since it was released), at some point they have to be replaced, no company can afford to produce every model it designed from the start of time, you can't buy Model T from Ford dealership either.
Just to chime in here, that particular version of Krell may not have been 20 years old, but Kemmler and Krell are 30+ years old going back to 2nd or even 1st edition with the La Maisontaal Abbey scenario- Revenge of the Lichemaster, from Citadel Journal, Spring 1986. They predate Gotrek and Felix by a fair bit and Nagash by even longer, as _the_ iconic necromancer and wight lord of the setting.
Cronch wrote: its a keyword that was never really developed. I think nighthaunt filled that design space leaving the Engine homeless.
Pretty much. Even Hachette seem aware of this as they're including the Mortis Engine as part of the Nighthaunt lot for Mortal Realms.
Nighthaunt need some work doing to them.
LoN...I know it's meant to represent some sort of grand 'unified' faction but it seems so very patchwork filled with half factions and skimming from the more established ones.
I think, to be honest it needs to be redone.
Soulblight as their own sub-faction with further sub-factions that mirror the old Bloodlines.
Nighthaunt need a lot, perhaps collapsing in the Malignant keyword strays.
There also need to be some units plugged - the idea of a Master Necromancer is missing (so your general is basically Nagash or a Vampire) for example.
Just to chime in here, that particular version of Krell may not have been 20 years old, but Kemmler and Krell are 30+ years old going back to 2nd or even 1st edition with the La Maisontaal Abbey scenario- Revenge of the Lichemaster, from Citadel Journal, Spring 1986. They predate Gotrek and Felix by a fair bit and Nagash by even longer, as _the_ iconic necromancer and wight lord of the setting.
Yep. It's why squatting them is quite...odd. They are incredibly iconic in their designs and Kemmler is very much the 'Master Necromancer' archetype that current LoN and Death forces are lacking - you've got your reminiscent Tomb King Legions (OBR), your Ghouls (FEC), your Ghosts (Nighthaunt) and LoN sort of covers the Vampire angle in a poor mishmash way but there's no option for Master Necromancer force really.
Here's to hoping whatever is up - if SG is a complete overhaul and rebrand of LoN (maybe LoN comes later as some sort of 'master faction' bonus in a campaign book?) then based off recent work (Lumineth and that Mounted Wight King) I'd hope to see them again...or their archetypes at least redone with nods to the classics....
Gonna say, d/c ing a model/unit’s current form to rerelease them with a new SKU and appropriate packaging is a thing that has happened before, as has removing older models prior to a plastic replacement so it’s only doom & gloom time when whatever book that’s coming drops without them.
Well, we knew he was coming from the previous weekend preview.
Might be worth noting that prior to his arrival, the stormcast are fighting Horrors and Bloodletters.
I suspect the silhouette for tomorrows 'new model monday' is undead.
---
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/02/28/the-sunday-preview-news-from-the-front/ Curious question- the 'update regarding the next few weeks of new releases'... did anyone get any actual information out of that?
They vaguely mention moving the release date of 'certain products,' and yadda yadda togetherness and shipping in a timely manner, but they don't actually... say anything.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Soulblight is it's own allegiance--not a sub-faction. And it actually has a decent number of plastic options surprisingly enough. That said it is not viewed as a 'real' army because the two-page allegiance abilities just aren't enough to make them viable. Presumably Soulblight Gravelords is an update to this, getting an extra adjectivenoun in the title because armies aren't allowed to have one-word names. Alternatively they are a replacement for LoN as a whole, but personally I think that is less likely.
Either way it is an update to an existing allegiance rather than a totally new one. My bet is it will be Soulblight but with a 1-per-4 rule on deathratte and zombies.
Also worth note is that "soulblight" is not the AoS term for vampire--they are a specific type of vampire. Ghoul kings are another, and we have seen mention of a potential third kind in White Dwarf (which may be tied to some of the new WQ models).
Decent number of plastic kits?
Dragon, thrones, mortarchs, vargheists.
I think that’s it.
3 of those kits are essentially hero’s too.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/02/28/the-sunday-preview-news-from-the-front/ Curious question- the 'update regarding the next few weeks of new releases'... did anyone get any actual information out of that?
They vaguely mention moving the release date of 'certain products,' and yadda yadda togetherness and shipping in a timely manner, but they don't actually... say anything.
Absolutely nothing. Are they moving them forward? Backward? I have no idea. I'm just rather annoyed that there's still no sign of the Seraphon warband for Underworlds and yet they're going on about showing off the Savage Orruks and teasing the OBR....like, at least release the Lizards first guys.
I think what they are trying to say is Broken Realms Teclis is delayed in favour of Broken Realms Belakor, but who can truly say? It feels like a last minute edit to the article to hedge.
Tim the Biovore wrote: I don't think that's what they're saying at all? No way they'd have more widespread global supply of BR: Be'lakor than BR: Teclis.
Yeah, it just sounds like they're moving to consolidate releases.
I suspect the silhouette for tomorrows 'new model monday' is undead.
Hmm, big sword, big hair, robes and possibly some kind of furry collar? It would fit with the style of the Underworlds Vampire warband. But that silhouette could also fit with a quite a few AoS factions and even some 40k ones(Sisters of silence HQ?). And that's without "smaller" games like WHQ, Necromunda, Warcry and Underworlds throwing curveballs out there. But yeah its probably(fingers crossed) a vamp.
Either way a full model reveal every week is IMO much better than the rumour engine. Which is usually either so vague or generic the only thing its teasing is "new stuff is coming".
NinthMusketeer wrote: Soulblight is it's own allegiance--not a sub-faction. And it actually has a decent number of plastic options surprisingly enough. That said it is not viewed as a 'real' army because the two-page allegiance abilities just aren't enough to make them viable. Presumably Soulblight Gravelords is an update to this, getting an extra adjectivenoun in the title because armies aren't allowed to have one-word names. Alternatively they are a replacement for LoN as a whole, but personally I think that is less likely.
Either way it is an update to an existing allegiance rather than a totally new one. My bet is it will be Soulblight but with a 1-per-4 rule on deathratte and zombies.
Also worth note is that "soulblight" is not the AoS term for vampire--they are a specific type of vampire. Ghoul kings are another, and we have seen mention of a potential third kind in White Dwarf (which may be tied to some of the new WQ models).
Decent number of plastic kits?
Dragon, thrones, mortarchs, vargheists.
I think that’s it.
3 of those kits are essentially hero’s too.
Woa there, let's not jump the shark and say a decent number of kits. I said options! That's pretty important; FEC are just 5 kits for all 13 of their units after all.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/02/28/the-sunday-preview-news-from-the-front/ Curious question- the 'update regarding the next few weeks of new releases'... did anyone get any actual information out of that?
They vaguely mention moving the release date of 'certain products,' and yadda yadda togetherness and shipping in a timely manner, but they don't actually... say anything.
Absolutely nothing. Are they moving them forward? Backward? I have no idea. I'm just rather annoyed that there's still no sign of the Seraphon warband for Underworlds and yet they're going on about showing off the Savage Orruks and teasing the OBR....like, at least release the Lizards first guys.
If its any consolation, I assumed it was about necromunda till I re-read it a few times.
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Unless he's for Cursed City, he belongs here.
Glad that GW is expanding out from the strictly batty aspect of vampires. Heck, the first (second, maybe) vampire film's antagonist was a guy who had more in common with rats than bats. And rather fittingly, was inspired by a recent plague epidemic.
That model is now on my list of all time favorites.
It hits all the right marks with me.
I hope to see a lot more like this. Simple. No wacky break dancing. No excessive details. A nice basic pose with all the finer details adding to the character instead of taking away.
If I had one complaint it would be the hair. But that is only my aesthetic choice, it looks great. I just hate painting hair. Damn Daughters of Khaine.
So this seems to be the third or fourth mention of Vyrgos Vampires which from what we see is a very animalistic bloodline of Vampires in contrast to the original 5
Kritza is an excellent model overall, though i do find the rat tails to be overly large and look a bit off. Looks like an easy enough fix to just remove them if they don't look right in person. I was not expecting to like the vampire models-the old hammer vampires never did much for me, but I am really liking everything for curse city and the other vampires that have been spoiled. Bat hair vampire looked a world better in a few recolors folks posted and mace dude looks pretty BA.
Cataphract wrote: So this seems to be the third or fourth mention of Vyrgos Vampires which from what we see is a very animalistic bloodline of Vampires in contrast to the original 5
Actually it's a nod to the Von Carsteins who were based on the classical Vampire archetype - which transformed into bats, rats and wolves.
It gives me hope that we'll see a faction book with Bloodlines proper in it.
The fluff tying to Cursed City is nice - even if everyone is panicking he's a Cursed City model...remember, Sigvald's AoS fluff ties him directly to Warhammer Underworlds....
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/02/28/the-sunday-preview-news-from-the-front/ Curious question- the 'update regarding the next few weeks of new releases'... did anyone get any actual information out of that?
They vaguely mention moving the release date of 'certain products,' and yadda yadda togetherness and shipping in a timely manner, but they don't actually... say anything.
Absolutely nothing. Are they moving them forward? Backward? I have no idea. I'm just rather annoyed that there's still no sign of the Seraphon warband for Underworlds and yet they're going on about showing off the Savage Orruks and teasing the OBR....like, at least release the Lizards first guys.
Yeah, that was a... weird article.
Ok, so build an army with plastic kits like FEC can.
The issue is, they lack any key models in plastic.
They have an absolute ton of character choices but when it comes to battle line or units, it’s somewhat an issue.
FEC also have the flexibility of having multiple battle line options from those kits.
In fact, nearly every kit they have can make one.
So march coin and free model are lumineth. Previous coins have been in months with relevant codex/battletome. Lumineth coming this month? Would be easy except with dark eldar preorder confirmed at 20.3 and gw's slowed schedule bit dubious...
Well leaves one name. Guess some new model for soulblight.
Still makes me wonder on release date. I would say announcement for this sunday but has GW announced they stopped every 2 week release system and back to weekly?
Well leaves one name. Guess some new model for soulblight.
Still makes me wonder on release date. I would say announcement for this sunday but has GW announced they stopped every 2 week release system and back to weekly?
2021 promises to be an amazing year, packed full of rad Warhammer releases – with something new and exciting arriving every month. That said, the global situation means Warhammer releases in January and February will be lighter than in recent years.
Rather than weekly, you’ll see new releases every fortnight, with the first pre-orders of 2021 on the 16th of January.
There has been no indication from GW that they're continuing this into March or beyond.
Well leaves one name. Guess some new model for soulblight.
Still makes me wonder on release date. I would say announcement for this sunday but has GW announced they stopped every 2 week release system and back to weekly?
2021 promises to be an amazing year, packed full of rad Warhammer releases – with something new and exciting arriving every month. That said, the global situation means Warhammer releases in January and February will be lighter than in recent years.
Rather than weekly, you’ll see new releases every fortnight, with the first pre-orders of 2021 on the 16th of January.
There has been no indication from GW that they're continuing this into March or beyond.
Well, the more recent article vaguely said they're doing something with the schedule (moving release dates of 'certain products'), but weren't clear if the release schedule overall was speeding up, slowing down, going back to normal, or even going on a hiatus.
Could it be the Mounted Wight King is actually a dual kit that builds a Wight special character as well? He's about the right size for it....
Possibly. Could also just be a fluff character using the model "Horrek, who is a Wight King" rather than "Horrek, who is different than a normal Wight King" but we shall see!
How do deathrattle skeletons work, now that Bonereapers are basically primaris skeleton? Sure, raising skeletons is easier than converting new bonereapers, and a necromancer can summon some skeletons on the fly. But wouldn't Nagash just want all the skeletons to walk to their nearest bonereaper for the tithe? In secluded places, like Cursed City, skeletons work. But I feel like in the greater scheme of things, they'd start becoming outmoded like Firstborn
From the sounds of things, Bonereapers take a lot of effort to create. It's a specialized thing to undertake while any goon who knows the right mumble can raise up skeletons in a pinch.
Well Bonereapers are not simple undead, they are more akin to bone construct (or bone golem, if that makes more sense). Much more alchemy and crafting then just usage of spell(s). They are "build" rather then "raised".
So no, your friendly backyard necromancer is not going to raise legions of these.
GaroRobe wrote: How do deathrattle skeletons work, now that Bonereapers are basically primaris skeleton? Sure, raising skeletons is easier than converting new bonereapers, and a necromancer can summon some skeletons on the fly. But wouldn't Nagash just want all the skeletons to walk to their nearest bonereaper for the tithe? In secluded places, like Cursed City, skeletons work. But I feel like in the greater scheme of things, they'd start becoming outmoded like Firstborn
Think of it this way: in the greater scheme of things a 5-star steak is a much more valued way to consume beef, but McDonalds still sells way more in hamburgers.
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Sotahullu wrote: Well Bonereapers are not simple undead, they are more akin to bone construct (or bone golem, if that makes more sense). Much more alchemy and crafting then just usage of spell(s). They are "build" rather then "raised".
So no, your friendly backyard necromancer is not going to raise legions of these.
I like that mental image;
*steps out on the porch* "Oh hey there, Mr. Boneingham!"
"Why hello good sir!"
"What are you up to today?"
"Oh just exhuming these skeletons to raise and compel them to slay the living in the name of Nagash."
The other aspect is that Nagash created the Ossiarchs to be his people, not just his army but his people to populate the whole of the Realms, once he wins of course. They are his idea of what life should be and how it should conduct itself and they are built to be the best at what they do and are.
Each one is indeed built for a purpose; bone and soul selected and chosen from raw materials and to ensure that it performs its role with the skills and experiences of many skilled, once living creatures. If you're a smith then you're born into the universe knowing all that a dozen master smiths from a dozen nations knew on smithing.
They are also loyal to Nagash. They are made by his hand and for him to his designs. They are not mindless animated bodies driven by the will of those who raised them; they are not vampires born of deceit and self promotion or madness and bloodlust.
From what we can tell Ossiarchs do have independent thought and will, its just Nagash ensures they are made to fill those freedoms with their predesigned aspects.
So yep they are beyond the average necromancer to create and raise; beyond even aged ancient vampire necromancers. In addtion, like stormcast, it would not surprise me if, as time passes, we start to see Ossiarchs with problems. Those who have too many lingering memories; driven mad by being made of the souls of once enemies ; confused by lingering thoughts; or just clashing internally when two masters of a craft or skill approached it from such diverging angles that to combine the two theories leads to endless self internal debate as to which is truly superior.
The difference, though, is that price-whining infects virtually every thread every week or two and is always the same bloody thing. 
