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Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/07 01:20:03


Post by: ingtaer


New Year, new thread;

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/01/04/reveals-from-the-new-year-open-day-2020gw-homepage-post-1/



Prepare for the ultimate Evil vs Evil mega Chaos-Death fight in “Wrath of the Everchosen".

This new book tells the story of the Ossiarch Bonereaper invasion of the Eightpoints and the battle for the Varanspire.

There will be loads of fun stuff for every gamer in the Age of Sigmar too, with new rules for wandering monsters, roaming endless spells and even siege warfare!

Chaos players will get especially spoilt, with a host of new army options to represent the myriad forces under Archaon’s command – mortal, monster and daemonic alike.





Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/07 01:27:26


Post by: Overread


I'm still curious to see if GW doing siege means that they'll start selling some GW brand walls.

I'm starting to wonder a little if the expansion books for AoS are being made by a side team. I recall that their last expansion book added mercenaries, then only a few weeks later main GW took the dwarf artillery models off sale (which were one of the core mercenary forces).

Now we've an expansion with siege when many armies don't have ANY war engines to speak of; and when there isn't even any walls save for the Rohan stuff.

Both suggest to me a side-team that isn't part of the core team, or at least isn't read into their long term plans as they come up with their own. It wouldn't surprise me, for a single company with one HQ, GW is known to be very compartmentalised in how they are structured (I think its a backlash from the Kirby era and I hope it starts to change).


Still I'd rather hope and look forward to possible new siege stuff!


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/07 01:51:45


Post by: Carnikang


 Overread wrote:
I'm still curious to see if GW doing siege means that they'll start selling some GW brand walls.

I'm starting to wonder a little if the expansion books for AoS are being made by a side team. I recall that their last expansion book added mercenaries, then only a few weeks later main GW took the dwarf artillery models off sale (which were one of the core mercenary forces).

Now we've an expansion with siege when many armies don't have ANY war engines to speak of; and when there isn't even any walls save for the Rohan stuff.

Both suggest to me a side-team that isn't part of the core team, or at least isn't read into their long term plans as they come up with their own. It wouldn't surprise me, for a single company with one HQ, GW is known to be very compartmentalised in how they are structured (I think its a backlash from the Kirby era and I hope it starts to change).


Still I'd rather hope and look forward to possible new siege stuff!


Id love to see the old battle fortress comeback in some way....

Faction specific rams, ladders and towers would be fun too.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/07 02:16:20


Post by: Voss


 Carnikang wrote:


Id love to see the old battle fortress comeback in some way....

Faction specific rams, ladders and towers would be fun too.


You mean this old thing?
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/mighty-fortress-warhammer-siege-games-1799168221

It was actually a pretty nice kit, especially for the time. The towers were even theoretically usable, but it was easier just take models off the table.


Faction specific though... that's hard to justify. Every faction division cuts sales down for a product that's already pretty niche.
Grand alliance kits might work, though.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/07 02:21:22


Post by: streetsamurai


Wonder if the pointy elfes are related to the come back of whfb. If there very similar to he, they could be used for both system


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/07 02:30:25


Post by: Voss


 streetsamurai wrote:
Wonder if the pointy elfes are related to the come back of whfb. If there very similar to he, they could be used for both system
Seems kind of pointless to go to the trouble of excising almost all of them when they're keeping lizards, beasts, and general chaos functionally unaltered.

I'd be really disappointed to if after all this time and build up, the Hysh Elves end up being slightly better proportioned archers, spears, sea guard, swordmasters and silver helms. At that point they might as well have kept selling them as part of Cities of Sigmar, and launched the new kits with that book.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/07 02:35:28


Post by: Argive


Voss wrote:
 streetsamurai wrote:
Wonder if the pointy elfes are related to the come back of whfb. If there very similar to he, they could be used for both system
Seems kind of pointless to go to the trouble of excising almost all of them when they're keeping lizards, beasts, and general chaos functionally unaltered.

I'd be really disappointed to if after all this time and build up, the Hysh Elves end up being slightly better proportioned archers, spears, sea guard, swordmasters and silver helms. At that point they might as well have kept selling them as part of Cities of Sigmar, and launched the new kits with that book.


They are all going to be doing backflips and stuff though...


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/07 02:40:45


Post by: Eldarain


Voss wrote:
 Carnikang wrote:


Id love to see the old battle fortress comeback in some way....

Faction specific rams, ladders and towers would be fun too.


You mean this old thing?
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/mighty-fortress-warhammer-siege-games-1799168221

It was actually a pretty nice kit, especially for the time. The towers were even theoretically usable, but it was easier just take models off the table.


Faction specific though... that's hard to justify. Every faction division cuts sales down for a product that's already pretty niche.
Grand alliance kits might work, though.

There were cool conversion articles in the original Generals Handbook for theming it.

A conversion pack for each Grand Alliance to make it your own would be a reasonable middle ground for current GW.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/07 03:48:13


Post by: Danny76


 streetsamurai wrote:
Wonder if the pointy elfes are related to the come back of whfb. If there very similar to he, they could be used for both system


Spring 2020, mention of a god form now etc.
Vs.
Three year away game (ish).

I wouldn’t have thought so at all to be honest..
But you never know I suppose..


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/07 03:52:09


Post by: tneva82


 streetsamurai wrote:
Wonder if the pointy elfes are related to the come back of whfb. If there very similar to he, they could be used for both system



Evidently oldhammer was greenlighted pretty recently(when it was posted). Pointy aelves desing started around 2018 most likely. way before back to old hammer was conceived. Unrelated,


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/07 04:00:35


Post by: MajorWesJanson


 Overread wrote:
I'm still curious to see if GW doing siege means that they'll start selling some GW brand walls.

I'm starting to wonder a little if the expansion books for AoS are being made by a side team. I recall that their last expansion book added mercenaries, then only a few weeks later main GW took the dwarf artillery models off sale (which were one of the core mercenary forces).

Now we've an expansion with siege when many armies don't have ANY war engines to speak of; and when there isn't even any walls save for the Rohan stuff.

Both suggest to me a side-team that isn't part of the core team, or at least isn't read into their long term plans as they come up with their own. It wouldn't surprise me, for a single company with one HQ, GW is known to be very compartmentalised in how they are structured (I think its a backlash from the Kirby era and I hope it starts to change).


Still I'd rather hope and look forward to possible new siege stuff!


I can at least see them rereleasing the Chaos Fortress stuff. Didn't realize it was gone from the site actually, my FLGS has one of the big boxes of it still sitting on the shelf.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/07 06:22:38


Post by: NinthMusketeer


The narrative side of me had a really great time in 2019 and is really excited for 2020.

The matched play side of me I've taken out back and put out of its misery.

Yay narrative!


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/07 08:05:27


Post by: streetsamurai


tneva82 wrote:
 streetsamurai wrote:
Wonder if the pointy elfes are related to the come back of whfb. If there very similar to he, they could be used for both system



Evidently oldhammer was greenlighted pretty recently(when it was posted). Pointy aelves desing started around 2018 most likely. way before back to old hammer was conceived. Unrelated,


It might be the other way around. Maybe seeing these new elves made the design team realised that they could be used in both system. Still, we need to wait and see how they actually look before making conjoncture


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/07 08:11:24


Post by: Cronch


I really doubt that. people read way too much into the fact that they showed the concept art for the old WFB models in the demo. Why make them compatible when you can then sell Old World Racist Elves to people again?


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/07 08:20:14


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


I'm no fan of Elfs, but that video made me laugh.

Well done GW.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/07 08:26:05


Post by: Da Boss


Seige rules are always cool. If people are looking for a cool fortress, Renedra do a great one.
http://www.renedra.co.uk/product.php?product=240


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/07 08:34:45


Post by: Bobthehero


Posting here to follow the rumours


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/07 09:32:29


Post by: streetsamurai


Voss wrote:
 Carnikang wrote:


Id love to see the old battle fortress comeback in some way....

Faction specific rams, ladders and towers would be fun too.


You mean this old thing?
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/mighty-fortress-warhammer-siege-games-1799168221

It was actually a pretty nice kit, especially for the time. The towers were even theoretically usable, but it was easier just take models off the table.


Faction specific though... that's hard to justify. Every faction division cuts sales down for a product that's already pretty niche.
Grand alliance kits might work, though.


There was a newer one than this one. Used to have it





[Thumb - 31SCWDZ6QSL.jpg]


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/07 10:25:45


Post by: AduroT


 streetsamurai wrote:
Voss wrote:
 Carnikang wrote:


Id love to see the old battle fortress comeback in some way....

Faction specific rams, ladders and towers would be fun too.


You mean this old thing?
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/mighty-fortress-warhammer-siege-games-1799168221

It was actually a pretty nice kit, especially for the time. The towers were even theoretically usable, but it was easier just take models off the table.


Faction specific though... that's hard to justify. Every faction division cuts sales down for a product that's already pretty niche.
Grand alliance kits might work, though.


There was a newer one than this one. Used to have it






Got a pair or so of those on the terrain shelves at the flgs.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/07 11:06:22


Post by: Geifer


Fun video and I guess we already knew Hysh Elves were coming, but ugh, more elves. The sooner we get those out of the way, the better.

 Da Boss wrote:
Seige rules are always cool. If people are looking for a cool fortress, Renedra do a great one.
http://www.renedra.co.uk/product.php?product=240


You don't happen to have any scale pictures of that, do you? Would be good to know how GW models look next to its doors, ramparts, etc.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/07 12:05:00


Post by: Da Boss


I can get some shots with a Space Marine when I go home but for now I have a picture of it next to some paint pots and those stags from the wood elf wild riders kit.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/07 12:27:25


Post by: Overread


I can't see GW doing faction specific walls for every race nor faction specific siege equipment for every race. I can see each race having their own artillery unit for regular battles (heck until the great cull of the start of AoS most races did have one or two artillery weapons - elves had bolt throwers; humans had cannon, dwarves had loads, even orks had catapults and grot throwers etc...).

I could see GW making grand alliance siege equipment. That would only be 4 sets of kit and could be neatly themed for the different nature of each race. Chaos could get some huge living rolling siege tower; Death some bone ladders etc... Basically generic designs that could be use by any race. A few might be outliers - eg Stormcast are bigger than most of the Order races so I could see them having their own etc...


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/07 12:57:30


Post by: Cronch


I could see it too. But we both know we won't, it will be another low-effort hastily scribbled set of "siege" rules to fill pages in an otherwise completely pointless supplement. I fully expect climbing the walls to be the only way to assault the defenses.

There are few things as superfluous in gaming as GW campaign supplements.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/07 13:10:51


Post by: JSG


Cronch wrote:
I really doubt that. people read way too much into the fact that they showed the concept art for the old WFB models in the demo. Why make them compatible when you can then sell Old World Racist Elves to people again?


It's a little known fact that the images and words GW use in teasers is completely random.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/07 13:17:18


Post by: Cronch


No, but it was fairly clear to me that they meant the models will be inspired by old elf aesthetics, not that they will just re-make HE which is what having them fit both games would require.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/07 13:34:27


Post by: Geifer


So have the Ossies' bone walls been confirmed to be custom pieces by GW's terrain team? Last time I saw that come up people were still divided on the issue, and if the narrative is going to be Ossies specifically versus Chaos there might be something more to those walls. Chaos, after all, already has a castle kit even if it's not currently for sale. It wouldn't take much for GW to order another run of those.

The other option is that this will be the low effort product some fear it is and the factions were chosen because GW wants to sell their newest shiny army and as the attacker they don't need fortifications, and Chaos is currently the only one that has one and is therefore picked as the defender.

 Da Boss wrote:
I can get some shots with a Space Marine when I go home but for now I have a picture of it next to some paint pots and those stags from the wood elf wild riders kit.
Spoiler:


A picture with a Marine would be great, thanks.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/07 13:39:49


Post by: DaveC


Pretty sure the Bonereaper terrain was mentioned in a recent Stormcast podcast and that they are resin prints not for production. But the files exist so it’s still a possibility.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/07 14:32:24


Post by: Fayric


I love the High Elves!
This is probably great news if it mean we will get elves that are not mutated weird creatures. I miss the age of gigantic hats, like when Tyrion sported a helmet with more mass than the actual man.

It makes me want to start a painting thread with some of my classic high elf stuff (and some classy ones to).


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/07 16:41:59


Post by: TBD


Just like with the recent new Dark Eldar mini's, GW doesn't seem to understand that if the choice is to either buy a whole expensive box of stuff I don't want only to get a new Magister on Disc or buy nothing instead the choice will be the latter and they are not getting any money from me.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/07 17:33:21


Post by: Knight


 Fayric wrote:
It makes me want to start a painting thread with some of my classic high elf stuff (and some classy ones to).


Do it!


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/07 17:59:51


Post by: Voss


 TBD wrote:
Just like with the recent new Dark Eldar mini's, GW doesn't seem to understand that if the choice is to either buy a whole expensive box of stuff I don't want only to get a new Magister on Disc or buy nothing instead the choice will be the latter and they are not getting any money from me.


They honestly don't care. Every AoS box set using this model has entirely sold out, so those of us who don't like the sales model have no recourse. 'Voting with your wallet' doesn't matter when the stock sells out on day one (and usually hour one)! For GW, this sales model is working exactly as intended.

Blood of the Phoenix seems to have been the first time they've screwed the pricing up enough not to sell out of product anyway.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/07 18:19:42


Post by: Kanluwen


Blood of the Phoenix was the first time that the secondary market* didn't matter.

Because let's be real here, a good chunk of boxes get bought up for resale/splitting purposes.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/07 18:36:47


Post by: Venerable Ironclad


 streetsamurai wrote:
Voss wrote:
 Carnikang wrote:


Id love to see the old battle fortress comeback in some way....

Faction specific rams, ladders and towers would be fun too.


You mean this old thing?
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/mighty-fortress-warhammer-siege-games-1799168221

It was actually a pretty nice kit, especially for the time. The towers were even theoretically usable, but it was easier just take models off the table.


Faction specific though... that's hard to justify. Every faction division cuts sales down for a product that's already pretty niche.
Grand alliance kits might work, though.


There was a newer one than this one. Used to have it





And there is an even newer set of wall that they would be more inclined to use.



As nice as those older sets are, I don't see GW bringing them back. They just don't match the current aesthetic GW is pushing foward. With the campaign most likely being Chaos defending against a Death invasion, what better time to bring back the chaos fortress set.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/07 21:22:57


Post by: skullking


 Overread wrote:
I can't see GW doing faction specific walls for every race nor faction specific siege equipment for every race.


They actually did do customizable battering ram heads for 'some' of the races, back in the day. Nothing spectacular, but kind of fun.

Spoiler:


I hope they create trays that we can use our new AoS figures in for the 'Oldhammer reboot'. It would be nice to not have to rebase everything just to play that game. I think it would help get more people interested quickly.

I'm anxious to see what the new 'pointy elves' will look like. The Sisters of Battle were a very faithful to the original models in their update, and I'm wondering if they'll go that route with these as well. I could see those elitist 'high' elves being pretty stuck in their ways, even post world ending cataclysm.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/08 15:38:28


Post by: EnTyme


Voss wrote:
. . . those of us who don't like the sales model have no recourse. 'Voting with your wallet' doesn't matter when the stock sells out on day one (and usually hour one)!


It matters. You just got out-voted.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/08 15:43:50


Post by: RiTides



Wow, the dry narration and sense of self-deprecating humor here is off the charts . Well done, GW... well done.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/08 15:52:45


Post by: Carlovonsexron


Given the Teclis silhouette, I'm expecting the cypher lords warband to be a kind of preview, since they are noted as not being overt cultists in.Hysh.

which if that's the case.could.get me.VERY on board with them.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/08 16:46:24


Post by: Kanluwen


Cypher Lords are humans, not Aelf.


It's worth mentioning that them being "not being overt cultists" is because they actually have their own cities.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/08 17:23:16


Post by: Cruentus


Voss wrote:
 Carnikang wrote:


Id love to see the old battle fortress comeback in some way....

Faction specific rams, ladders and towers would be fun too.


You mean this old thing?
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/mighty-fortress-warhammer-siege-games-1799168221

It was actually a pretty nice kit, especially for the time. The towers were even theoretically usable, but it was easier just take models off the table.


Faction specific though... that's hard to justify. Every faction division cuts sales down for a product that's already pretty niche.
Grand alliance kits might work, though.


I still have mine, and wished I had picked up a second set when GW was still selling them. 1 Gatehouse, 4 Towers, 3 Wall Sections: $99 USD. How much was that chaos fortress again? Yeah, there is no way I'm spending that much on a castle when there are nicer historical options out there that would work well for old world gaming (AoS is creeping larger scale wise, so less useful). I shudder to think what GW would charge now for that castle kit, even if they didn't change a single thing.

Also, all the siege stuff, towers, rams, ladders, odds and bobs for defenders (boiling oil cauldrons) were great fun in siege games.

My Mighty Fortress (plastic, not the foam one) sees lots of tabletop service even now.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/08 21:37:41


Post by: Carlovonsexron


 Kanluwen wrote:
Cypher Lords are humans, not Aelf.


It's worth mentioning that them being "not being overt cultists" is because they actually have their own cities.


a big helmet plume, dangling jewels and a voluminous robe all seem to be design aesthetics shared between Teclis and the cypher lord silhouette.

likewise, the helmets.mean you don't really know for.sure if the cypher lords are human or aelf, and the splintered fangs are conclusive proof elves can fall to chaos.

I think that there will be shared designed cues so.that the cypher lords can properly represent the threat.of "chaos within"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
*cypher lord leader's silhouette*


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/08 21:38:59


Post by: Elbows


Yeah, only thing I'm not enthusiastic about is the silhouette...that looks terrible.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/09 00:05:55


Post by: Carlovonsexron


 Elbows wrote:
Yeah, only thing I'm not enthusiastic about is the silhouette...that looks terrible.


It's the thing that gives me hope!

old elves are coming back eventually,.which means that AoS can be free of the design burden that is the high elf legacy. Elves are.never.so boring as when they are Greeks and Romans by a different name, two people who make no sense to lump with the elves to begin with.

And if you're going to smash the elves with design cues from cultures that don't have elves, you might as well make them more exciting.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/09 02:05:20


Post by: Sabotage!


I’m personally pretty interested to see what they do with “pointy elves” though not as interested as seeing Malerion’s elves. I do feel giving us a new human faction first would be more appropriate however, as there are already snake-lady elves, sea elves, and tree elves available and no new human faction available (unless you count Slaves to Darkness).


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/09 03:34:01


Post by: Carnikang


 Sabotage! wrote:
I’m personally pretty interested to see what they do with “pointy elves” though not as interested as seeing Malerion’s elves. I do feel giving us a new human faction first would be more appropriate however, as there are already snake-lady elves, sea elves, and tree elves available and no new human faction available (unless you count Slaves to Darkness).


I'd personally like to see more variant of Orc

Let's make some dirt Orcs, rock Orcss, furry Orcs, feather Orcs, maybe even some sky orcs.

Or a new destruction faction at least.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/09 06:22:16


Post by: Knight


 Elbows wrote:
Yeah, only thing I'm not enthusiastic about is the silhouette...that looks terrible.


I hope the over designed elements apply to that silhouette in particular and the rest of the line is more toned down.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/09 08:34:48


Post by: Cronch


Carlovonsexron wrote:
 Elbows wrote:
Yeah, only thing I'm not enthusiastic about is the silhouette...that looks terrible.


It's the thing that gives me hope!

old elves are coming back eventually,.which means that AoS can be free of the design burden that is the high elf legacy. Elves are.never.so boring as when they are Greeks and Romans by a different name, two people who make no sense to lump with the elves to begin with.

And if you're going to smash the elves with design cues from cultures that don't have elves, you might as well make them more exciting.

The problem with this particular one previewed is that it's just chock-full of weakpoints and snag-able spikes and tassles. Sometimes I think GW forgot people actually play using the models.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/09 08:43:36


Post by: Mr_Rose


 Knight wrote:
 Elbows wrote:
Yeah, only thing I'm not enthusiastic about is the silhouette...that looks terrible.


I hope the over designed elements apply to that silhouette in particular and the rest of the line is more toned down.

*Not shown: the silhouette is actually two small elf-children standing on top of each other.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/09 09:52:53


Post by: Knight


Now I have this image stuck in my head, where kid Teclis is on kid Tyrion's shoulders, and he's saying: don't worry brother you'll grow up, just look and see.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/09 09:55:57


Post by: tneva82


Cronch wrote:
The problem with this particular one previewed is that it's just chock-full of weakpoints and snag-able spikes and tassles. Sometimes I think GW forgot people actually play using the models.


Yeah I find magnetic transportation starts to be pretty much requirement. At least that way they are standing free not bumping into anything while transportation


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/09 20:24:00


Post by: Venerable Ironclad


 Carnikang wrote:
 Sabotage! wrote:
I’m personally pretty interested to see what they do with “pointy elves” though not as interested as seeing Malerion’s elves. I do feel giving us a new human faction first would be more appropriate however, as there are already snake-lady elves, sea elves, and tree elves available and no new human faction available (unless you count Slaves to Darkness).


I'd personally like to see more variant of Orc

Let's make some dirt Orcs, rock Orcss, furry Orcs, feather Orcs, maybe even some sky orcs.

Or a new destruction faction at least.

Well there is a good chance that we might get sky goblins in the future, or would it be safe to call them tiny sky orcs.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/09 21:57:55


Post by: judgedoug


 Cruentus wrote:


I still have mine, and wished I had picked up a second set when GW was still selling them. 1 Gatehouse, 4 Towers, 3 Wall Sections: $99 USD. How much was that chaos fortress again? Yeah, there is no way I'm spending that much on a castle when there are nicer historical options out there that would work well for old world gaming (AoS is creeping larger scale wise, so less useful). I shudder to think what GW would charge now for that castle kit, even if they didn't change a single thing.

Also, all the siege stuff, towers, rams, ladders, odds and bobs for defenders (boiling oil cauldrons) were great fun in siege games.

My Mighty Fortress (plastic, not the foam one) sees lots of tabletop service even now.


Yeah, I have two full sets of the plastic Warhammer Fortress along with, I think, two sets each of Siege Attackers and Defenders, plus three Siege towers. Those were awesome kits and the best value for a generic castle ever.

That being said the Chaos Dreadhold stuff puts it to shame. The old Fortress might have been a hundred bucks, but the Chaos Helfort ($260) is a freakin' massive beast. Hell the Overlord Bastion ($130) is already pretty dang massive and a table centerpiece. I only bought a single Helfort, a single Overlord Bastion, plus an extra set of ruined walls, when the Dreadhold was in production. I would absolutely buy another Helfort if they re-released it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
so are we looking at Seraphon in February and Aelves in March, or are we hitting a slow 2-3 month cycle for armies and more like Aelves in March and Seraphon in May?


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/09 22:49:03


Post by: Carnikang


The did say in that panel that Seraphon are "not soon". So, that could be anytime in the future, considering GW. But we do know spring for PElves.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/09 23:43:51


Post by: SamusDrake


 TBD wrote:
Just like with the recent new Dark Eldar mini's, GW doesn't seem to understand that if the choice is to either buy a whole expensive box of stuff I don't want only to get a new Magister on Disc or buy nothing instead the choice will be the latter and they are not getting any money from me.


Wouldn't mind it but waiting so long after a battle-set release is plain annoying. In the case of the new Eldar models that was taking it a bit too far with a £140 box set - split or not. They spent the best part of a month hyping up the new models only to then basically say "but they aren't available until late 2020".

It wouldn't surprise me if they do the same with those "pointy aelves" they so comcially introduced recently....


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/09 23:50:03


Post by: Overread


SamusDrake wrote:
 TBD wrote:
Just like with the recent new Dark Eldar mini's, GW doesn't seem to understand that if the choice is to either buy a whole expensive box of stuff I don't want only to get a new Magister on Disc or buy nothing instead the choice will be the latter and they are not getting any money from me.


Wouldn't mind it but waiting so long after a battle-set release is plain annoying. In the case of the new Eldar models that was taking it a bit too far with a £140 box set - split or not. They spent the best part of a month hyping up the new models only to then basically say "but they aren't available until late 2020".

It wouldn't surprise me if they do the same with those "pointy aelves" they so comcially introduced recently....


There's only one Ossiarch model you can't buy, a unique character Vokmortian. Otherwise the entire range is up for sale. Sisters of Battle look like they are going to be similar with the majority of the range launched in a fairly short window. GW seems less fearful of 3rd parties; or perhaps they've come to the realisation that the market of their customers who turn away to 3rd parties for alternative models is a segment they won't win back so best not to worry about it. It could also be that with their steady and slow return to the competitive scene that they hope more "official" events will have a trickle down effect in encouraging/enforcing GW only models in clubs - on the angle that people who might want to "one day" or actually compete in the competitive events will focus on at least owning an official version of their army.

That said I don't think GW will step away from the whole "no model no rules" approach. Which to be fair I find rather sensible. Gamers don't like having toys they can't buy and if GW keeps battletomes/codex focused on only what they do sell then it makes it not only easier to sell more product to customers, but also makes pick-up by new generations a lot easier. I recall when Tyranids had quit a few "not heroes" that weren't made as models and whilst conversions were ripe (and Tyranids actually convert rather easily and tend to give you a good number of spare/compatible parts) its still not something every gamer wants to or can do.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/09 23:51:41


Post by: SamusDrake


Voss wrote:
Blood of the Phoenix seems to have been the first time they've screwed the pricing up enough not to sell out of product anyway.


First time I had an interest in one of those sets, GW went silly on the price by including a load of unnecessary models. A set of guardians and kabalites would have sufficed!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Overread wrote:


There's only one Ossiarch model you can't buy, a unique character Vokmortian. Otherwise the entire range is up for sale. Sisters of Battle look like they are going to be similar with the majority of the range launched in a fairly short window. GW seems less fearful of 3rd parties; or perhaps they've come to the realisation that the market of their customers who turn away to 3rd parties for alternative models is a segment they won't win back so best not to worry about it. It could also be that with their steady and slow return to the competitive scene that they hope more "official" events will have a trickle down effect in encouraging/enforcing GW only models in clubs - on the angle that people who might want to "one day" or actually compete in the competitive events will focus on at least owning an official version of their army.



Have to hand it to GW regarding the Sisters of Battle. The box set - even if thats what it was to be for a few months - was fair in that it was a focused faction box complete with codex. To have the individual sets so soon after is pretty darn good.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/10 01:31:21


Post by: Ghaz


 judgedoug wrote:
so are we looking at Seraphon in February and Aelves in March, or are we hitting a slow 2-3 month cycle for armies and more like Aelves in March and Seraphon in May?

The 'Pointy Aelves' teaser did say Spring 2020, so if we keep to the calendar that should be mid- to late-March to mid- to late-June.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/10 07:36:23


Post by: Danny76


That Mighty Fortress was my free subscription gift for White Dwarf one year.
Back when you got something free for subbing, which then became just a model, and then access to a model you have to pay for..

Would be good for it to have more use.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/13 14:42:20


Post by: Ghaz


The Slaves to Darkness Errata and Designers' Commentary are up.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/13 23:48:12


Post by: VictorVonTzeentch


So its entirely possible that I am missing something. But what even is the point of paying for Overlords of Chaos, if all it does now is let you change what bonus you get when you create the army?


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/13 23:53:31


Post by: NinthMusketeer


You could have some outside the battalion with a different bonus, and each unit in the battalion can have a different bonus from one another.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/13 23:54:56


Post by: Eldarain


Because the middling books can't have nice things. Pick an army that has a biased writer. Professionalism is for the weak.

Only explanation for how the disparity in books in both flagship games can continue year after year.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/13 23:57:15


Post by: VictorVonTzeentch


 NinthMusketeer wrote:
You could have some outside the battalion with a different bonus, and each unit in the battalion can have a different bonus from one another.


So you have to pay for something they probably should have had, in the first place?

What exactly was wrong with just getting 2 Circles.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/13 23:57:45


Post by: NinthMusketeer


I'm convinced at this point that GW doesn't understand what balance is or why it is important.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
You could have some outside the battalion with a different bonus, and each unit in the battalion can have a different bonus from one another.


So you have to pay for something they probably should have had, in the first place?

What exactly was wrong with just getting 2 Circles.
I also think it is rather lame that each unit couldn't each get their own pick by default.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/14 00:07:10


Post by: Ghaz


From the Errata (emphasis added):

‘When you select this battalion to be part of your army, for each unit from this battalion, you can replace the keyword you chose from the list in the Eight Circles of the Varanguard battle trait with a different keyword from the same list.’

My reading is that each unit of Varanguard can have a different keyword (i.e., if you have six Varanguard units in the battalion, they could each have a different CIRCLE keyword).


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/14 01:21:55


Post by: timetowaste85


Wow, those gimp changes on Varanguard are bs. They better drop the points to 280 at least.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/14 03:19:04


Post by: Sasori


 timetowaste85 wrote:
Wow, those gimp changes on Varanguard are bs. They better drop the points to 280 at least.


It's not like Varanguard were dominating the scene or anything.

They made some really odd choices with this FAQ.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/14 04:33:52


Post by: timetowaste85


I know. Dumb changes for no reason.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/14 07:04:30


Post by: Galas


Why did they even nerf that batallion? I mean. Wow! Varanguard with two circles! So OP!

It wasn't something confusing or an error. It was clear that their intent was for varanguard to have two circles...

Let me tell you, they have changed this probably because some people complained that by fluff a Varanguard couldnt be of more than one circle.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/14 14:05:22


Post by: timetowaste85


I wonder if enough of us complain they’ll put it back? Could be worth a try. Also, Varanguard can’t mix weapons anymore. They’ve been able to since they were created. Removing that is ridiculous as well. A unit of essentially heroes can’t pick which weapon they ride to battle with? This FAQ feels like a huge knee-jerk. If it came with discounted costs I could see it, but Varanguard are already expensive and you have to plan your army around them if going in on them. The nerf without a reasonable price drop is insane.

I’ll still run them, but that 120pts is getting me a wizard (and upgrading the sphynx to a second wizard).


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/14 14:21:32


Post by: Cronch


 Eldarain wrote:
Because the middling books can't have nice things. Pick an army that has a biased writer. Professionalism is for the weak.

Only explanation for how the disparity in books in both flagship games can continue year after year.

Don't attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence.
Just look at KO, GW is so sure they're the one ranged army that'd utterly break the game if left unchecked, but anvils of heldenhammer shootcast and other ranged monstrosities are perfectly fine.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/14 15:12:51


Post by: Kanluwen


Cronch wrote:
 Eldarain wrote:
Because the middling books can't have nice things. Pick an army that has a biased writer. Professionalism is for the weak.

Only explanation for how the disparity in books in both flagship games can continue year after year.

Don't attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence.
Just look at KO, GW is so sure they're the one ranged army that'd utterly break the game if left unchecked, but anvils of heldenhammer shootcast and other ranged monstrosities are perfectly fine.

You can thank the wonderful whiners who insisted that Stormcast be a unified book for that. We likely would have gotten different traits for each Chamber, seeing as how we have different warband tables.

And while we're at it, this is also the design team that thinks that the Lord-Aquilor is overpowered for Path to Glory/Skirmish.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/14 15:52:17


Post by: Cronch


You can thank the wonderful whiners who insisted that Stormcast be a unified book for that.

Yeah, no. 4 books for stormcast would be patently absurd. It's just garbage balancing like usual, nothing specifically wrong with stormcast, just like 3 KoS lists are result of bad balancing, not because Slaanesh wasn't split into 5 books one for each demon unit.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/14 15:59:26


Post by: Kanluwen


Because Sacrosanct totally would have ended up as its own book, rather than bundled up with the Warrior Chamber amirite?
Because that's what Sacrosanct are. A Warrior Chamber reskin.


Frankly though, the Anvils shootcast is built around cheese...that is immediately hard countered with reasonable terrain placement.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/14 16:01:21


Post by: Cronch


Well, if an "army" of one big dragon and one small dragon can be it's own book (as Extremis was, and you advocate for it to be again), why shouldn't the sacrosanct not get their own book?


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/14 16:02:52


Post by: Overread


Honestly I think GW is going the path of more variety in armies and races with AoS rather than having 10 Stormcast armies built around different themes. Whilst that works for Marines it also creates a very odd situation and ideally a lot of marine players want games against things other than other marines.

Honestly the marine situation for 40K isn't actually all that healthy for the game. It's healthy in terms of sales don't get me wrong; and I don't disilke the themed marine forces. But I far rather prefer the AoS path that its going down with having way more different armies.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/14 16:25:44


Post by: Kanluwen


 Overread wrote:
Honestly I think GW is going the path of more variety in armies and races with AoS

Tell that to Cities of Sigmar, which royally screwed over exactly what you're arguing. Wanderers weren't part of the Cities in the lore...yet got rolled in. Because reasons, I guess.
rather than having 10 Stormcast armies built around different themes.

We'd be at 4 right now, assuming Sacrosanct and Extremis got their own books and weren't rolled in with the Warrior Chamber(which lacked mounted units). The remaining Chambers we have are, from what the lore has suggested, something that would be more in line with us having characters added into the existing books.
Whilst that works for Marines it also creates a very odd situation and ideally a lot of marine players want games against things other than other marines.

Yeah, well one of the problems with that is people have to be willing to actually play the damn game and find what they like.

Unfortunately, that's not the case these days. You can thank the ease of netlists for that.
Honestly the marine situation for 40K isn't actually all that healthy for the game. It's healthy in terms of sales don't get me wrong; and I don't disilke the themed marine forces. But I far rather prefer the AoS path that its going down with having way more different armies.

Vanguard Stormcast, if they'd been allowed to actually be an individual army, would have been vastly different to the standard stuff. But nope, they didn't get that chance thanks to the incessant whining about "Sigmarines" and the audacity for there to be (gasp!) two whole books for two vastly different forces that got released with a chunk of time between them.

It's also worth noting that we're not really "having way more different armies". We're seeing extremely similar armies coming out, just for different Grand Alliances. We're seeing a "subfaction" in the book which is themed around making Behemoths Battleline, a subfaction that's better at fightin', a subfaction that's better with magic, etc.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/14 16:29:06


Post by: Tiberius501


 Overread wrote:
Honestly I think GW is going the path of more variety in armies and races with AoS rather than having 10 Stormcast armies built around different themes. Whilst that works for Marines it also creates a very odd situation and ideally a lot of marine players want games against things other than other marines.

Honestly the marine situation for 40K isn't actually all that healthy for the game. It's healthy in terms of sales don't get me wrong; and I don't disilke the themed marine forces. But I far rather prefer the AoS path that its going down with having way more different armies.


I agree with this, and I’m a Blood Angels player haha. Marines are bloated beyond a reasonable amount. At some stage, when they flush all the old units away and it’s all just the new Primaris line, it’ll at least settle a bit. But even so, having 6 different books, all devoted to different flavours of marines is just unwieldy.

I’m much more in favour of how Sigmar is handling it atm.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/14 16:35:06


Post by: Cronch


But nope, they didn't get that chance thanks to the incessant whining about "Sigmarines" and the audacity for there to be (gasp!) two whole books for two vastly different forces that got released with a chunk of time between them.

Some of us aren't marine players and don't enjoy buying two books just to field one army.
Or are you seriously suggesting liberators without shields but with a short-ranged attack somehow are "vastly different"?


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/14 19:59:48


Post by: Smellingsalts


My problem with the Varenguard weapon options nerf is that I can't foresee a time when I will ever take more than two units. You do not get options on the builds, so you have to have one Deamonblade, one Ensorcelled blade, and one Felspear for $100. I will either have to hope my opponent lets me count all of those weapons as "counts as" for one type, or I would have to buy and paint up another box, and then have 3 extra Varenguard that I don't use.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/14 20:03:29


Post by: timetowaste85


That’s not true; you get three of each type. You get three spears, a bloodletter sword, Plaguebearer sword, and tzeentch scepter for the daemon weapons, then a hammer, axe and blade for the enscorcelled weapons. I currently have multiple kits. Trust me on this one...


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/14 20:19:30


Post by: Jackal90


 timetowaste85 wrote:
That’s not true; you get three of each type. You get three spears, a bloodletter sword, Plaguebearer sword, and tzeentch scepter for the daemon weapons, then a hammer, axe and blade for the enscorcelled weapons. I currently have multiple kits. Trust me on this one...



This.
You literally get a multitude of weapons.
That’s part of why there’s so many of them on eBay.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/14 20:54:57


Post by: Galas


They could add more options for rhe weapons, for cystomization tbh... For what they charge...
I use then on my khorne with demonic weapobns and gave then Ensorcelled weapons painted with red glow.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/14 21:07:33


Post by: Jackal90


 Galas wrote:
They could add more options for rhe weapons, for cystomization tbh... For what they charge...
I use then on my khorne with demonic weapobns and gave then Ensorcelled weapons painted with red glow.



Not going to argue about the price as it is insanely high.
Weapon wise though they get more options per model than most kits GW make.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/14 22:16:51


Post by: NinthMusketeer


I do feel that varanguard should have kept the ability to mix weapons.

All the other units it was, IMO, GW fixing a typo that was copy-pasted across multiple units. Typos happen and that one would be easy to miss for someone who knows the weapon choice is supposed to be unit-wide, not gonna blame GW on that front.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 01:41:53


Post by: Carlovonsexron


Cronch wrote:
But nope, they didn't get that chance thanks to the incessant whining about "Sigmarines" and the audacity for there to be (gasp!) two whole books for two vastly different forces that got released with a chunk of time between them.

Some of us aren't marine players and don't enjoy buying two books just to field one army.
Or are you seriously suggesting liberators without shields but with a short-ranged attack somehow are "vastly different"?


Seconded. The last thing I want is for stormcast to completly take on the space marine mantle in fantasy, and fantasy becomiing 80% stormcast releases, and be thankful for anything else you get!

If stormcast never get another major release I'll be fine with it. Give us as many variations on order Humans as the elves get...


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 01:46:46


Post by: Overread


Honestly as they are besides a few more characters and perhaps some other large monstrous creatures (which tend to be limited in how many you can practically field at once); Stormcast already do pretty much everything with variety on the table too. They don't need anything more and having had a fully modern build there isn't really room to add huge lots of models to them nor reason to update existing sculpts either.

IT means they've had a fantastic start, but I'd hope that it means they won't see much in a way of major new releases for a long while. There are plenty of other AoS armies in need of bulking up on choices or updating of old sculpts. Plus AoS would honestly need new niches for Stormcast to get things that won't be tripping over the heels of what they've got already.

By all means if GW finds a new trick like Endless Spells was; then give them to stormcast too; but otherwise leave the production slots open for other races. With all the promotional setup (start collecting sets, marketing, lore, the freaking name of the game and also things like Conquest ) Stormcast will always sell well so long as AoS does well.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 02:23:06


Post by: Voss


Honestly besides the initial setting, the attention Sigmarines got was a major turnoff for AoS, at least for me. First box set? Fine. But that first year was just Sigmarines, Blood Blooders and a lot of nothing beyond phoned-in lizards (that maybe got new box art out of the deal?)

And then another chamber and then underworlds sets and yet another chamber in another box set and it was just too much focus on them and too much wasted space that wasn't getting filled.

They really need to spend the next few years on the other Realms and other armies.


Edit: and that they're they've got the biggest unit selection in the entire range (60 entries on their store page, just pipping past the combined Cities of Sigmar) speaks volumes about the excessive overabundance of support they've had. Many AoS armies don't break 20 entries, and all but Cities, Legions of Nagash and Slaves to Darkness (all of which are legacy ranges) cap in the 30s.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 04:38:48


Post by: streetsamurai


Voss wrote:
Honestly besides the initial setting, the attention Sigmarines got was a major turnoff for AoS, at least for me. First box set? Fine. But that first year was just Sigmarines, Blood Blooders and a lot of nothing beyond phoned-in lizards (that maybe got new box art out of the deal?)

And then another chamber and then underworlds sets and yet another chamber in another box set and it was just too much focus on them and too much wasted space that wasn't getting filled.

They really need to spend the next few years on the other Realms and other armies.


Agreed a 100%

While some sigmarines miniatures are sublimes, most of them are bad and the overabondance of them made AOS stale and boring.

Thankfully, they seemed to have stopped shoving them down everyone throats recently, and are giving us much more diverse release (even though I find them to be very hit and miss)


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 10:38:31


Post by: Cronch


are giving us much more diverse release

No, it's just more boring chaos and death, while destruction might as well not exist. Slaves to darkness could've easily been cut out and the few remaining units shoved into the god-themed books. But nope, Chaos has to have two books a year.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 10:40:58


Post by: tneva82


If it's shoved into god specific whatabout chaos players who don't play one specific god?

Let's combine bonereapers, nagash and flesh eaters while at it


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 10:45:13


Post by: terry


Cronch wrote:
are giving us much more diverse release

No, it's just more boring chaos and death, while destruction might as well not exist. Slaves to darkness could've easily been cut out and the few remaining units shoved into the god-themed books. But nope, Chaos has to have two books a year.

all chaos armies are now up to date book wise and there are some rumour engine pics that fit destruction.
As for death, they don't have a lot of releases. AoS has been mostly chaos and order release wise


Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82 wrote:
If it's shoved into god specific whatabout chaos players who don't play one specific god?

Let's combine bonereapers, nagash and flesh eaters while at it

Why stop there, lets combine gits and orruks


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 10:58:26


Post by: Overread


Cronch wrote:
are giving us much more diverse release

No, it's just more boring chaos and death, while destruction might as well not exist. Slaves to darkness could've easily been cut out and the few remaining units shoved into the god-themed books. But nope, Chaos has to have two books a year.


Destruction has been ignored more so than others, even after the big Gloomspite Gitz release. I was listening to one of the AoS podcasts though from GW and the person being interviewed said that they'd had a big focus on Death over the last year or so and that their wheel of focus was going to shift more toward Destruction. Personally the way I see it Death only "needs" or might get one or possibly two more armies added. Almost certain that we'll see a Vampire themed army at some point - Vampires were always very popular in the Old World and they feature heavily in the AoS lore. I can well see them getting new models and poaching a load out of Legions of Nagash. Depending how they do the Vampires GW might also leave room for a traditional skeleton undead army or that will be rolled into Vampires.

After that I can't see any clear ways to add new armies to Death without adding something totally new like Ossiarchs; and I'd wager that instead of doing that GW would be better to shift to focusing on the Ourrks, Gits, Gobbos and perhaps some totally new ideas for wild and rough peoples of Destruction.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 11:44:44


Post by: timetowaste85


I play Chaos, and I have all the books (except beasts). You know what? Please hold off on any further chaos stuff, GW!! I need a break. Let’s wait two or three years, then you can continue w/Chaos stuff again. Bring out Death and Destruction stuff for a while. This Disciples book and campaign book? Nothing after them.

....Fulgrim or Angron in 40k would be ok though.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 11:52:15


Post by: Carlovonsexron


I dunno, I really, REALLY want some mortal followers of Slaanesh and some slaangors to come out...


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 12:19:18


Post by: Overread


I'm convinced well see a Death Vampires army at some point. Also one of the podcast interviews at GW revealed that Death had been a core focus for a while and that the wheel was going to turn toward Destruction. Which is very fitting. Of course that doesn't mean other Grand Alliances get ignored - you can make a case for many AoS armies that they either need updated old sculpts or new models to diversify their army.

It doesn't help that GW did drop High Elves and Tombkings which had two fairly modern rosters of models (even if HE had lost some to the Island of Blood join sprues problem - along with Skaven). A few armies ilke Daughters of Khaine are also fragments of once larger forces, so they are left with good tools but few tools.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 12:23:47


Post by: Geifer


 timetowaste85 wrote:
I play Chaos, and I have all the books (except beasts). You know what? Please hold off on any further chaos stuff, GW!! I need a break. Let’s wait two or three years, then you can continue w/Chaos stuff again. Bring out Death and Destruction stuff for a while. This Disciples book and campaign book? Nothing after them.

....Fulgrim or Angron in 40k would be ok though.


As far along as we are now GW may as well give every remaining battletome a 2nd ed book and be done with it regardless of Grand Alliance. No point stopping now.

I'm always down for more Death, but honestly while Destruction actually needs it I'd rather GW put the time into Order humans instead of more Death stuff on the heels of a year of Death releases. Order isn't hurting for armies, but genuine AoS humans simply don't exist in that Grand Alliance while at the same time we can now look forward to the third elf army made or upgraded for AoS. That leaves a pretty big gap.

Or give me Tomb Kings. I'll make an exception for them.

Carlovonsexron wrote:
I dunno, I really, REALLY want some mortal followers of Slaanesh and some slaangors to come out...


Yep. No mortal followers of Slaanesh was bogus when the Slaanesh book was release, it's bogus now and it'll continue to be bogus until GW fixes that.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 12:31:10


Post by: Cronch


No mortal followers of Slaanesh

StD book is chock-full of them. Pretty much every mortal unit except cultists can be slaaneshi mortal follower


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 12:36:48


Post by: Overread


Cronch wrote:
No mortal followers of Slaanesh

StD book is chock-full of them. Pretty much every mortal unit except cultists can be slaaneshi mortal follower


Yes but each of the other Chaos god armies has two layers of mortals. The "generic" from the StD tome which they all share and their own dedicated mortal (or semi-mortal) followers which are unique sculpts which are part of the demons core army rather than StD. So when people say they want Slaanesh Mortals they mean new sculpts and unique models that are for their army alone. Right now they've only got the riders on seekers (which honestly I really wish got re-done because they look far too bulky atop the lithe seekers).


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 14:27:40


Post by: EnTyme


Personally, I wish they'd scrap the 4 Grand Alliances. They feel like a relic of the early days of AoS.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 14:36:56


Post by: Voss


terry wrote:
Cronch wrote:
are giving us much more diverse release

No, it's just more boring chaos and death, while destruction might as well not exist. Slaves to darkness could've easily been cut out and the few remaining units shoved into the god-themed books. But nope, Chaos has to have two books a year.

all chaos armies are now up to date book wise and there are some rumour engine pics that fit destruction.
As for death, they don't have a lot of releases. AoS has been mostly chaos and order release wise


Not sure if serious...

Death has gotten two completely new armies, and legions has one of the biggest model selections.

I'd like to see a break from spamming battletomes and see them sprinkle 1-3 units (not characters) for each of the smaller armies (including slaanesh) over the course of the year. Just go a bit crazy with variety and filling gaps for a while. For both systems really. The book spam needs a break.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 14:37:16


Post by: Overread


 EnTyme wrote:
Personally, I wish they'd scrap the 4 Grand Alliances. They feel like a relic of the early days of AoS.


I don't mind them. I think so long as Grand Alliance armies themselves remain a minor element to the game balance - ergo part of the game, but not more powerful than pure armies (ergo it avoids army soup problems); then the Grand Alliances are a neat idea. Lore wise its actually quite fun to have quite a few allies who are not all that enthralled with each other. Order is fantastic in that there's several groups in there who are really not all that nice to the others, yet are still relient and allied to them.

Plus we've already got armies like Skaven who are basically "out on their own" for the most part whilst being part of a Grand Alliance.

I can't see the GA going away, but I also don't see it harming the game either at this stage. There's even potential for GW to add a new one if they really wanted to add 3 or 5 or more new armies in a totally diferent direction; or even have a few armies as full "outliers" outside of the system.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 14:37:56


Post by: Voss


Grand Alliance: Neutrals.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 14:39:45


Post by: terry


Voss wrote:
terry wrote:
Cronch wrote:
are giving us much more diverse release

No, it's just more boring chaos and death, while destruction might as well not exist. Slaves to darkness could've easily been cut out and the few remaining units shoved into the god-themed books. But nope, Chaos has to have two books a year.

all chaos armies are now up to date book wise and there are some rumour engine pics that fit destruction.
As for death, they don't have a lot of releases. AoS has been mostly chaos and order release wise


Not sure if serious...

Death has gotten two completely new armies, and legions has one of the biggest model selections.

I'd like to see a break from spamming battletomes and see them sprinkle 1-3 units (not characters) for each of the smaller armies (including slaanesh) over the course of the year. Just go a bit crazy with variety and filling gaps for a while. For both systems really. The book spam needs a break.

last year they only had 1 completely new army, flesh eaters already was an army with book


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 14:43:12


Post by: Voss


terry wrote:
Voss wrote:
terry wrote:
Cronch wrote:
are giving us much more diverse release

No, it's just more boring chaos and death, while destruction might as well not exist. Slaves to darkness could've easily been cut out and the few remaining units shoved into the god-themed books. But nope, Chaos has to have two books a year.

all chaos armies are now up to date book wise and there are some rumour engine pics that fit destruction.
As for death, they don't have a lot of releases. AoS has been mostly chaos and order release wise


Not sure if serious...

Death has gotten two completely new armies, and legions has one of the biggest model selections.

I'd like to see a break from spamming battletomes and see them sprinkle 1-3 units (not characters) for each of the smaller armies (including slaanesh) over the course of the year. Just go a bit crazy with variety and filling gaps for a while. For both systems really. The book spam needs a break.

last year they only had 1 completely new army, flesh eaters already was an army with book

Nothing will ever convince me to care about flesh eaters and their mutant orc models, I was referring to Nighthaunt (and obviously boneheads).

Aside from the hexwraiths, banshee and cairn wraith, everything there is brand new, made for AoS 2.0. They didn't even bother to use the relatively new spirit hosts for the ghost army.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 18:22:34


Post by: NinthMusketeer


Spirit hosts are in Nighthaunt, dunno where you got that tidbit from. As for releases, the best way to make the case would be to list all the battletome & new unit releases then compare the numbers. Wouldn't take all that long and would clear up who got how much.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 18:56:35


Post by: Voss


 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Spirit hosts are in Nighthaunt, dunno where you got that tidbit from.

That they're on the Legion of Nagash store page but not the Nighthaunt store page. If they're in the Nighthaunt book, then its another GW web error, but GW's list of what makes up each army is what I'm going by.


As for releases, the best way to make the case would be to list all the battletome & new unit releases then compare the numbers. Wouldn't take all that long and would clear up who got how much.

Feel free. It seems pretty cut and dry to me that Death got two new armies in AoS 2.0, since one was just a few months ago and the other arrived with the AoS 2.0 boxed set.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 18:57:43


Post by: EnTyme


 Overread wrote:
 EnTyme wrote:
Personally, I wish they'd scrap the 4 Grand Alliances. They feel like a relic of the early days of AoS.


I don't mind them. I think so long as Grand Alliance armies themselves remain a minor element to the game balance - ergo part of the game, but not more powerful than pure armies (ergo it avoids army soup problems); then the Grand Alliances are a neat idea. Lore wise its actually quite fun to have quite a few allies who are not all that enthralled with each other. Order is fantastic in that there's several groups in there who are really not all that nice to the others, yet are still relient and allied to them.

Plus we've already got armies like Skaven who are basically "out on their own" for the most part whilst being part of a Grand Alliance.

I can't see the GA going away, but I also don't see it harming the game either at this stage. There's even potential for GW to add a new one if they really wanted to add 3 or 5 or more new armies in a totally diferent direction; or even have a few armies as full "outliers" outside of the system.


My main issue is that the justifications for which armies go in which alliance are often flimsy at best, especially for the Order alliance. Are they worshippers of Sigmar? Then why are Sylvaneth, Seraphon, DoK, and Fyreslayers there? The "good guys?" Again, Daughters of Khaine (and Sylvaneth get a little stabby if you wander too close to their forests, too). Is Death the followers of Nagash? Then why are the Flesheater Courts a part of it? Chaos seems pretty straight forward, but Destruction is just "whatever we had left over". I just don't see the point in these four arbitrary groupings of armies. It just doesn't seem to serve a purpose in the current game.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 19:13:22


Post by: JSG


 EnTyme wrote:
 Overread wrote:
 EnTyme wrote:
Personally, I wish they'd scrap the 4 Grand Alliances. They feel like a relic of the early days of AoS.


I don't mind them. I think so long as Grand Alliance armies themselves remain a minor element to the game balance - ergo part of the game, but not more powerful than pure armies (ergo it avoids army soup problems); then the Grand Alliances are a neat idea. Lore wise its actually quite fun to have quite a few allies who are not all that enthralled with each other. Order is fantastic in that there's several groups in there who are really not all that nice to the others, yet are still relient and allied to them.

Plus we've already got armies like Skaven who are basically "out on their own" for the most part whilst being part of a Grand Alliance.

I can't see the GA going away, but I also don't see it harming the game either at this stage. There's even potential for GW to add a new one if they really wanted to add 3 or 5 or more new armies in a totally diferent direction; or even have a few armies as full "outliers" outside of the system.


My main issue is that the justifications for which armies go in which alliance are often flimsy at best, especially for the Order alliance. Are they worshippers of Sigmar? Then why are Sylvaneth, Seraphon, DoK, and Fyreslayers there? The "good guys?" Again, Daughters of Khaine (and Sylvaneth get a little stabby if you wander too close to their forests, too). Is Death the followers of Nagash? Then why are the Flesheater Courts a part of it? Chaos seems pretty straight forward, but Destruction is just "whatever we had left over". I just don't see the point in these four arbitrary groupings of armies. It just doesn't seem to serve a purpose in the current game.


Is it really that difficult to understand what the forces of "Order" might represent?


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 19:18:39


Post by: Jackal90


The only issue I have with grand alliances is that they could do with another section.

Something like an “evil” alliance for deepkin, dark elves, daughters etc.
They really aren’t an order army by any means but they also aren’t devoted to a chaos god.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 19:21:11


Post by: Voss


JSG wrote:
 EnTyme wrote:
 Overread wrote:
 EnTyme wrote:
Personally, I wish they'd scrap the 4 Grand Alliances. They feel like a relic of the early days of AoS.


I don't mind them. I think so long as Grand Alliance armies themselves remain a minor element to the game balance - ergo part of the game, but not more powerful than pure armies (ergo it avoids army soup problems); then the Grand Alliances are a neat idea. Lore wise its actually quite fun to have quite a few allies who are not all that enthralled with each other. Order is fantastic in that there's several groups in there who are really not all that nice to the others, yet are still relient and allied to them.

Plus we've already got armies like Skaven who are basically "out on their own" for the most part whilst being part of a Grand Alliance.

I can't see the GA going away, but I also don't see it harming the game either at this stage. There's even potential for GW to add a new one if they really wanted to add 3 or 5 or more new armies in a totally diferent direction; or even have a few armies as full "outliers" outside of the system.


My main issue is that the justifications for which armies go in which alliance are often flimsy at best, especially for the Order alliance. Are they worshippers of Sigmar? Then why are Sylvaneth, Seraphon, DoK, and Fyreslayers there? The "good guys?" Again, Daughters of Khaine (and Sylvaneth get a little stabby if you wander too close to their forests, too). Is Death the followers of Nagash? Then why are the Flesheater Courts a part of it? Chaos seems pretty straight forward, but Destruction is just "whatever we had left over". I just don't see the point in these four arbitrary groupings of armies. It just doesn't seem to serve a purpose in the current game.


Is it really that difficult to understand what the forces of "Order" might represent?


Gold crazed mercenaries, soul stealers, mass murderers, murderous mutant cultists, smugglers and evil trees intent on blood sacrifice, apparently. Not a traditional definition of the word in any usage.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 19:28:21


Post by: Mr_Rose


Uh, order = organised, civilised (the literal meaning, not the prejudicial ‘moral’ sense), lawful, conservative, and fruitful. Nowhere in there is “good” required or expected.

You’re trying to fit good/evil onto the law/chaos axis and it isn’t going to work.
The four GA represent separate steps on one axis, not the extremes of two.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 19:29:44


Post by: Ghaz


Jackal90 wrote:
The only issue I have with grand alliances is that they could do with another section.

Something like an “evil” alliance for deepkin, dark elves, daughters etc.
They really aren’t an order army by any means but they also aren’t devoted to a chaos god.

'Order' is not analogous to 'Good', but is closer to 'Lawful' in D&D and can be good, neutral or evil.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 19:56:20


Post by: Jackal90


 Mr_Rose wrote:
Uh, order = organised, civilised (the literal meaning, not the prejudicial ‘moral’ sense), lawful, conservative, and fruitful. Nowhere in there is “good” required or expected.

You’re trying to fit good/evil onto the law/chaos axis and it isn’t going to work.
The four GA represent separate steps on one axis, not the extremes of two.



Organised and civilised fits the theme for almost every faction in the game to a degree.
There is also nothing civilised about the armies I mentioned.
Deepkin especially as they refuse to change and attack just about everyone, including their own.

Maybe “evil” was a poor choice of words though.
I’d say more of a neutral alliance.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 20:01:42


Post by: EnTyme


I feel like the replies to my post only reinforce my point. It took less than half a page to get two different sets of parameters for Order, each with multiple exceptions within the alliance.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 20:09:34


Post by: Overread


Order represents those races of people who build civilizations and are typically sedentary in nature with regard to those civilizations. They will typically establish cities, settlements, farm the land and generally approach life with a view toward improving their reigon in their own way. They also all oppose Chaos (some more than others) and also are allies of Sigmar and his forces.

However those alliances are not set in iron, its more a case of "The enemies of my enemies are my friends" kind of situation. However the Free Cities also act much like trading settlements. So you've got Daughters of Khaine running underground fight clubs; you've got KO who appear to be the backbone of realm trade and transport over long distances. Honestly the only army that really stands out more than all the others is Idoneth and that's mostly because they REALLY keep to themselves (more than the shadow aelves and Daughters of Khaine) and also directly harvest people as a resource.


Chaos - self evident these are the forces touched by the ruinous powers of Chaos. However within their ranks you've got everything from Skaven who are almost born of chaos; to Chaos Warriors and lords who are totally besotted with chaos - all the way down to wild tribes of people and cities who don't follow Sigmar nor the Chaos Gods in name. Indeed a big part of the Warcry background for the Warbands is that each one of those races worships different gods in name; behind the scenes they are Chaos Greater Demons and gods, but in their face they are other named gods. Chaos forces might build cities and civilizations, but they work with the ruinous powers so whilst they might not know it; they work toward the end of the world. The Novella Warqueen gives a really nice view on some of the more mortal side of the followers long before they are fevered with Chaos. It's actually refreshing to see those who believe and follow the Chaos gods more like tribes and people with loves, lusts, desires, care and humanity still intact rather than mindless slaves to chaos

Destruction. Once Allies of Sigmar against Chaos, destruction basically is formed of those who are more tribal. They will take and hold lands; they will build huge fortresses; but by and large they are more nomadic; more working with the land than seeking to "tame" it. Furthermore they are more "wild" and given to less stability. Orruks are no longer the green "boogymen" of the setting and are more a wild bunch. I figure that once we start to see more of them we might even see a bit of a GW style of Warcraft orks start to appear - ergo seeing their lives, struggles, goals etc... Ergo rounding them out to be more than "Orgh Fight!" even though that's going to be a bit part of their society.
They are also freely able to trade and work with Order forces and races.

Death - forces of Nagash and perhaps the most unified of all the Grand Alliances by nature of how Nagash has formed his undead and is taming the realm of Death. All are allied to Nagash; all save the Flesheaters of course who are utterly insane. They are more used as a wildcard tool and tolerated; but otherwise all the rest of Death, whilst having its own mind, is enslaved toward Nagash's goal. Some forces more than others - though even armies like the Ossiarchs can still have their own mind and goal. It's clear that whilst Nagash can impose his will he's not able to do it to a whole race all at once - hence why he often acts through agents and generals and mortarchs.



It's also important to note that the Grand Alliances apply to the biggest of those respective races. Within the Realms there is a myriad of smaller factions of different races that might not respect the allliances at the top. So you'll get Free Cities who wage war on Sylvaneth; I've already covered Idoneth raiding humans for souls; there's going to be likely Orruk traders; Ogor cooks (heck Ogor mercenaries are a staple even from the Old World).


Again the Grand Alliances are the top-end scale of things and represent broad alliances. There's tremendious room within that for rivalries; wars; competition and more within each Grand Alliance.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 20:17:56


Post by: EnTyme


Make that three different sets of parameters, though props to Overread for pointing out the contradictions to his own definition.

edit Just to clarify, my main issue with the GAs is that the Order alliance is so vaguely defined that it makes it difficult for the other alliances to have expansion potential. By Overread's definition, Tzeentch could be an Order army. I've seen multiple arguments for Tomb Kings being an Order army. Pick a random fantasy trope and make an army out of it, and it's going to fit Order better than any of the other three alliances. I understand the purpose of the alliances as a high-level way of organizing armies, but now that the Allies system is firmly established, I feel like the GAs don't add anything to the game.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 21:16:43


Post by: Mr_Rose


TK could well have been Order… if their soldiers were free-willed individuals. Being controlled minions puts them overall on the extremities of the Law axis, which is Grand Alliance Death’s domain, even if they aren’t friends of Nagash.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 21:19:13


Post by: Overread


Another way to think of it is that in a "last ditch" situation the Grand Alliances represent the unity that will form up. So when backed against a wall Skaven will ally with Chaos forces in the lore. Same for most of Order, even Idoneth will come from the seas to battle the forces of Chaos in alliance to their foes. Indeed armies like Daughters of Khaine, who are otherwise not all that trustworthy, are fantastic allies against Chaos (esp Slaanesh forces).



Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 21:25:42


Post by: EnTyme


That sounds like a lore situation that is adequately represented by the Allies mechanic and the Grand Alliances could be scrapped with minimal loss to the game or lore.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 21:55:38


Post by: NinthMusketeer


Why scrap them? They add to the theme of the game and give an additional set of allegiance abilities to build armies within as well as a useful keyword for abilities that affect everything from one alliance.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 22:00:58


Post by: EnTyme


Just to clarify, my main issue with the GAs is that the Order alliance is so vaguely defined that it makes it difficult for the other alliances to have expansion potential. By Overread's definition, Tzeentch could be an Order army. I've seen multiple arguments for Tomb Kings being an Order army. Pick a random fantasy trope and make an army out of it, and it's going to fit Order better than any of the other three alliances. I understand the purpose of the alliances as a high-level way of organizing armies, but now that the Allies system is firmly established, I feel like the GAs don't add anything to the game.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 22:03:46


Post by: NinthMusketeer


Voss wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Spirit hosts are in Nighthaunt, dunno where you got that tidbit from.

That they're on the Legion of Nagash store page but not the Nighthaunt store page. If they're in the Nighthaunt book, then its another GW web error, but GW's list of what makes up each army is what I'm going by.
Oh, you are going by store listing. Those are helpful but only semi-right; in AoS armies are determined by keyword. This means a given unit can be in multiple armies, but rather than listing the same unit in multiple sections on the store GW just kept it to one. Personally I think that makes things more confusing especially for newer players who may not have gone over the core rules word-by-word to know how it works.


As for releases, the best way to make the case would be to list all the battletome & new unit releases then compare the numbers. Wouldn't take all that long and would clear up who got how much.

Feel free. It seems pretty cut and dry to me that Death got two new armies in AoS 2.0, since one was just a few months ago and the other arrived with the AoS 2.0 boxed set.

New armies (in the sense of having significant amounts of new kits) since AoS release:

Order: Stormcast, Fyreslayers, DoK, Idoneth, KO, Sylvaneth
Chaos: Mono-god armies x4
Destruction: Gloomspite, Ironjawz
Death: Nighthaunt, OBR

So Death and Destruction remain at the bottom by a fair margin.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 22:30:18


Post by: Voss


Eh. I think we differ a bit on 'significant amount'

Stormcast and Khorne, obviously, yes. Nighthaunt and OBR yes, Gloomspite, KO and Idoneth are fair.

DoK on the other hand got... two kits and Morathi. Slaanesh got the keeper, fiends update, and some rando special characters.

Fyreslayers are maybe five kits total? They look so samey, its hard to tell (plus the endless spells that aren't spells and the forge, which are recent)

Sylvies got.. a couple kits just for AoS? A remember at least some of those weird things happened for the horrible WE update at the end of fantasy, a fair bit of Nurgle was end times. Tzeentch is a weird mix of Quest, 40k and some actual AoS releases.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/15 23:50:55


Post by: Carnikang


Voss wrote:
Eh. I think we differ a bit on 'significant amount'

Stormcast and Khorne, obviously, yes. Nighthaunt and OBR yes, Gloomspite, KO and Idoneth are fair.

DoK on the other hand got... two kits and Morathi. Slaanesh got the keeper, fiends update, and some rando special characters.

Fyreslayers are maybe five kits total? They look so samey, its hard to tell (plus the endless spells that aren't spells and the forge, which are recent)

Sylvies got.. a couple kits just for AoS? A remember at least some of those weird things happened for the horrible WE update at the end of fantasy, a fair bit of Nurgle was end times. Tzeentch is a weird mix of Quest, 40k and some actual AoS releases.


DoK got two kits that made four units... and Morathi.

Fyreslayers was still a whole army, with their kits being able to make multiple units, or heros in the case of the magmadroth.

I don'y even remember what Sylvaneth got at the start... Kurnoth Hunters, Allarielle? Maybe the tree revenants?


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/16 00:03:35


Post by: NinthMusketeer


Kurnoths ranged/melee loadouts, spites/revenenants dual kit, drycha, alarielle, terrain feature, and endless spells.

DoK are probably the smallest with two dual kits and one special character... But at the same time Morathi is one hell of a kit. And dual kits are still two different units, they add more to an army than a single-build.

Ironjawz and Fyreslayers are both light on their lineups, but they are still new armies. Ironjawz only cannibalized one older kit into its lineup.

All the mono-god armies got a large number of new models. Slaanesh is the lowest with KoS/Shalaxi dual, Syll'Esque, Masque, Enrapturess, Contorted Epitome, Fiends, endless spells and terrain--8 new kits.

At any rate when counting up new kits Death is still well behind Order and Chaos, ahead of only Destruction. AoS has seen a good amount of death models RECENTLY but to say they've hogged AoS (a sentiment I have witnessed numerous times of late) is a little silly for anyone who remembers further back than a year! I know it can seem bad but I encourage people not to put too much stock in it, AoS's history has shown us that all the alliances will get new miniatures at quite a rapid pace.



Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/17 16:12:25


Post by: GaroRobe


Thursday will reveal teclics, but the art of the models not terrible


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/17 16:14:15


Post by: Kanluwen


Ladies and gentlemen...Teclis:


Digital renders of his iconic weaponry:

Come back soon for a look at their wielder – and much, much more – with the LVO preview on Thursday.** Seriously, you’re going to want to see this.

Here's the article


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/17 16:23:44


Post by: SamusDrake


Could this be the year of Pointy Aelves and Eldar?


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/17 16:25:10


Post by: Overread


SamusDrake wrote:
Could this be the year of Pointy Aelves and Eldar?


Eldar need more than one release to make it their year. Not to say that new Banshees and an Aspect warriors are not good, but that its only one of multiple resin aspect groups that needs updating for them. Now if they can get rangers, warpsiders, scoptions, etc... into plastic this year then yeah that's year of the Eldar!


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/17 16:27:41


Post by: No wolves on Fenris


 Kanluwen wrote:
Ladies and gentlemen...Teclis:


Digital renders of his iconic weaponry:

Come back soon for a look at their wielder – and much, much more – with the LVO preview on Thursday.** Seriously, you’re going to want to see this.

Here's the article


Yep regardless of the rest of the range, if they all take their cues from that image then I have what I’ve wanted for the last 5 years, AoS High (A)elves


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/17 16:30:33


Post by: Gallahad


Well, his hat got even dumber.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/17 16:39:13


Post by: ImAGeek


I like that art a lot. Roll on Thursday! (Well, Friday morning).


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/17 16:40:28


Post by: Galas


What can I say. I love it....

And it is not because he reminds me of someone that I also love...

Spoiler:


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/17 16:59:05


Post by: streetsamurai


Look like he'll be prancing around with a silly pose :(


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/17 16:59:11


Post by: EnTyme


SamusDrake wrote:
Could this be the year of Pointy Aelves and Eldar?


Just this once, can we not do this? It always ends up the same way. A playre says "Year of the Elf" on a facebook post, the social media gives a non-committal response like "sounds fun", and everyone takes it as a blood oath from GW. Six month later, Aeldar get 2-3 really cool kits, then moves on to the next release. The community gets up in arms because GW "promised" Year of the Elf, but we only got X kits! Where's my Year of the Elf?!? It's Orktober/C'thulu Elves all over again.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/17 17:02:22


Post by: Knight


I wonder what are those light things that he has. The hat is a bit silly but the aesthetics should be neat.

If I'm reading it correctly we're going to see more teasers until LVO?


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/17 17:02:49


Post by: Tim the Biovore


Well

I'm keen


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/17 17:07:22


Post by: ImAGeek


 Knight wrote:
I wonder what are those light things that he has. The hat is a bit silly but the aesthetics should be neat.

If I'm reading it correctly we're going to see more teasers until LVO?


The next time we’ll see something is LVO, is how I read it.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/17 17:11:57


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


 streetsamurai wrote:
Look like he'll be prancing around with a silly pose :(


Yes. He is an elf.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/17 17:20:09


Post by: Cronch


He's blue dabadidabada....


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/17 17:20:24


Post by: Knight


 ImAGeek wrote:
The next time we’ll see something is LVO, is how I read it.


The miniatures for certain. It's the...

Over the next few weeks, you’ll have the chance to find out.


It can be from LVO forwards, but it would also make sense to post small fluff crumbs until LVO.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/17 17:29:20


Post by: Geifer


I'm totally seeing metal sideburns. Couple with his facial expression and how he looks down on something, he's trying to evoke beard envy from some poor, ground-bound dwarfs.

 EnTyme wrote:
SamusDrake wrote:
Could this be the year of Pointy Aelves and Eldar?


Just this once, can we not do this? It always ends up the same way. A playre says "Year of the Elf" on a facebook post, the social media gives a non-committal response like "sounds fun", and everyone takes it as a blood oath from GW. Six month later, Aeldar get 2-3 really cool kits, then moves on to the next release. The community gets up in arms because GW "promised" Year of the Elf, but we only got X kits! Where's my Year of the Elf?!? It's Orktober/C'thulu Elves all over again.


Sounds fun!


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/17 17:32:49


Post by: Kanluwen


 Knight wrote:
I wonder what are those light things that he has.

The things hanging from his belt, right?

If I had to hazard a guess, they're mirrors or some new version of the Waystones that High Elves used to have around Ulthuan to protect the souls of the fallen.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/17 17:38:04


Post by: NinthMusketeer


 Gallahad wrote:
Well, his hat got even dumber.
"Dumber" is a strange way of saying "awesome and appropriate to his new godly status" but to each their own!

But seriously, ridiculous headwear is a tradition of Warhammer since it's earliest days and I am glad they aren't changing it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 streetsamurai wrote:
Look like he'll be prancing around with a silly pose :(


Yes. He is an elf.
True, and exalted


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/17 17:38:32


Post by: ImAGeek


 Knight wrote:
 ImAGeek wrote:
The next time we’ll see something is LVO, is how I read it.


The miniatures for certain. It's the...

Over the next few weeks, you’ll have the chance to find out.


It can be from LVO forwards, but it would also make sense to post small fluff crumbs until LVO.


LVO is just under a week from now. I don’t think we’ll see much til then, and then the over the next few weeks will be between then and the release.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/17 17:42:24


Post by: Grimskul


 NinthMusketeer wrote:
 Gallahad wrote:
Well, his hat got even dumber.
"Dumber" is a strange way of saying "awesome and appropriate to his new godly status" but to each their own!

But seriously, ridiculous headwear is a tradition of Warhammer since it's earliest days and I am glad they aren't changing it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 streetsamurai wrote:
Look like he'll be prancing around with a silly pose :(


Yes. He is an elf.
True, and exalted


Yeah, people seem to forget Nagash exists, and he has the greatest bone pope hat that was ever made.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/17 17:43:08


Post by: Alpharius


 Geifer wrote:
I'm totally seeing metal sideburns. Couple with his facial expression and how he looks down on something, he's trying to evoke beard envy from some poor, ground-bound dwarfs.

 EnTyme wrote:
SamusDrake wrote:
Could this be the year of Pointy Aelves and Eldar?


Just this once, can we not do this? It always ends up the same way. A playre says "Year of the Elf" on a facebook post, the social media gives a non-committal response like "sounds fun", and everyone takes it as a blood oath from GW. Six month later, Aeldar get 2-3 really cool kits, then moves on to the next release. The community gets up in arms because GW "promised" Year of the Elf, but we only got X kits! Where's my Year of the Elf?!? It's Orktober/C'thulu Elves all over again.


Sounds fun!


Agreed - let’s do it!

(I mean, we’re going to be doing regardless, but bonus points for committing early!)


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/17 17:43:14


Post by: Sacredroach


Not a High Elf player, but that design is pretty great. Maybe my Morathi needs a mate...


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/17 17:50:23


Post by: Eldarsif


 NinthMusketeer wrote:
AoS has seen a good amount of death models RECENTLY but to say they've hogged AoS (a sentiment I have witnessed numerous times of late) is a little silly for anyone who remembers further back than a year!


I think the issue - if I go by myself and my FLGS - it is that the lore feels very Sigmar v. Nagash centric which gets very samey(just like it was Sigmar v. Khorne in AoS 0.0). I'd personally love to see more lore from the other factions being involved in the god-tier level chess that Sigmar and Nagash are engaged in. Which is why I hope Teclis brings some interesting new power dynamic into play in the lore as teased in this article.

I am also super-stoked for pointy elves.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/17 18:45:46


Post by: NinthMusketeer


They recently announced the OBR vs Eightpoints campaign book too, which I'm pretty excited for due to that factor.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/17 18:48:37


Post by: Fayric


Teclis look to be in great shape!
Dare we hope he is even smaller than Alarielle?
I always enjoyed the thing about him beeing the nerdy asthmatic brother while Tyrion beeing the proverbial jock, dating the everqueen and everything.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/17 18:59:13


Post by: tneva82


Well. Was huge fan of high elves and they are my first ever warhammer(of either kind) army but this one doesn't tingle me yet.

Maybe actual troops appeal more. So far not getting "start an army" vibe.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/17 19:08:20


Post by: Jackal90


High elves without hands the size of their heads would be nice.
Always liked the range but the troops really put me off.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/17 19:11:09


Post by: H.B.M.C.


He's going to be floating on so much swirly bull gak that it'll put the Celestant Prime to shame.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/17 19:22:22


Post by: GoatboyBeta


Not a fan of gods taking to the field of battle personally. But I 'm really interested to see what the faction as a whole looks like.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/17 19:23:22


Post by: Manfred von Drakken


 Sacredroach wrote:
Not a High Elf player, but that design is pretty great. Maybe my Morathi needs a mate...


No man in their right mind would ever be alone with Morathi.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/17 19:30:18


Post by: rybackstun


I'm actually incredibly excited for this release. I've always been a Teclis fan (even if he's been a bit of a knob over the years) and High Elves have always been one of my favorite fantasy armies.

Hopefully the troops look great, get some decent variety, and some GOOD ranged options!


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/17 19:43:27


Post by: TalonZahn


Finally, the Primarch of the XI Legion.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/17 19:45:26


Post by: Voss


 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
 Sacredroach wrote:
Not a High Elf player, but that design is pretty great. Maybe my Morathi needs a mate...


No man in their right mind would ever be alone with Morathi.


I guess it could be argued that Malekith wasn't in his right mind...


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/17 20:17:33


Post by: Theophony


With that helmet maybe they will go a more samurai theme with high elves. I would be down with that.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/17 20:21:23


Post by: EnTyme


 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
 Sacredroach wrote:
Not a High Elf player, but that design is pretty great. Maybe my Morathi needs a mate...


No man in their right mind would ever be alone with Morathi.


Depends on your kink


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/18 07:46:58


Post by: AduroT


GoatboyBeta wrote:
Not a fan of gods taking to the field of battle personally. But I 'm really interested to see what the faction as a whole looks like.


I’m curious at what point we get Sigmar himself since everyone else seems to get their gods on the board.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/18 08:21:22


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 AduroT wrote:
I’m curious at what point we get Sigmar himself since everyone else seems to get their gods on the board.
A few tweaks to his weapons and a splash of gold paint and he'll do.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/18 09:01:33


Post by: Jackal90


 AduroT wrote:
GoatboyBeta wrote:
Not a fan of gods taking to the field of battle personally. But I 'm really interested to see what the faction as a whole looks like.


I’m curious at what point we get Sigmar himself since everyone else seems to get their gods on the board.


There’s varying levels of gods in AoS.
Teclis, morathi, everqueen etc are just minor ones.
Sigmar himself is a lot higher up.
I honestly don’t think we’d ever see the major gods hit the table as the rules would be beyond stupid for them.

Would be like slapping down a warlord in a casual 40k game.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/18 09:03:04


Post by: Eldarain


I would have thought that would keep Nagash off the board. Or have they explained that as being avatars of his will or some such?


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/18 09:13:30


Post by: Jackal90


 Eldarain wrote:
I would have thought that would keep Nagash off the board. Or have they explained that as being avatars of his will or some such?


He’s still a god by most rights, but still a minor one.

Sigmar, Gork/Mork, the 4 chaos gods etc are far above him.
It’s just that Nagash seems to be the only god they really have, there’s no huge god backing them like most others have.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/18 09:34:05


Post by: Orlanth


Probably think of a better name.
How about 'elves'.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/18 09:52:52


Post by: No wolves on Fenris


Jackal90 wrote:
 Eldarain wrote:
I would have thought that would keep Nagash off the board. Or have they explained that as being avatars of his will or some such?


He’s still a god by most rights, but still a minor one.

Sigmar, Gork/Mork, the 4 chaos gods etc are far above him.
It’s just that Nagash seems to be the only god they really have, there’s no huge god backing them like most others have.


That’s not my understanding. I see it more like the Greek pantheon. Sigmar Nagash Malerion Allarielle Teclis and GorkaMorka are all the same level of deity just that Sigmar is the Zeus of this pantheon (I mean literally down to the whole lightning bolt fetish) and is the “king” of these gods and simply the most powerful. But he’s not a tier above the others. The Chaos Gods on the other hand are above the pantheon as they are almost “elemental” deities. Morathi is a tier below the pantheon as she’s more a Demi god status than full god. It even states how jealous she is of Malerion due to his power as a full god.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/18 09:57:44


Post by: Cronch


Jackal90 wrote:
 Eldarain wrote:
I would have thought that would keep Nagash off the board. Or have they explained that as being avatars of his will or some such?


He’s still a god by most rights, but still a minor one.

Yeah, he only killed and ate all the other gods of Death in Shyish to become the only ruler of an entire realm. Like that other god ruling an entire realm, Sigmar. A minor human deity.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/18 10:11:06


Post by: Jackal90


Cronch wrote:
Jackal90 wrote:
 Eldarain wrote:
I would have thought that would keep Nagash off the board. Or have they explained that as being avatars of his will or some such?


He’s still a god by most rights, but still a minor one.

Yeah, he only killed and ate all the other gods of Death in Shyish to become the only ruler of an entire realm. Like that other god ruling an entire realm, Sigmar. A minor human deity.



And in turn also managed to get himself killed by Archaon in combat.
He’s has in fact been killed several times now.

Killing gods doesn’t make that god above others.

The fact he acted as an aid to sigmar as well since he wasn’t strong enough to kill him.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/18 10:24:31


Post by: Cronch


Why isn't sigmar a minor god then? He couldn't even take on Archaon 1v1 without his magic hammer, what kind of god relies on trinkets to win against mortals? Sorry, Sigmar confirmed for minor deity of toilet scrubbers.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/18 10:31:44


Post by: Jackal90


Cronch wrote:
Why isn't sigmar a minor god then? He couldn't even take on Archaon 1v1 without his magic hammer, what kind of god relies on trinkets to win against mortals? Sorry, Sigmar confirmed for minor deity of toilet scrubbers.


You mean like nearly every god relies on a weapon or trinket?
Hell, Archaon has trinkets all over the place from all 4 gods, so even a mortal gets a lot stronger with them.


To be fair though, I’d have to agree with sigmar being a lower tier god.
It’s possible we’d see him on the table at some stage maybe.
Think the easy way to look at it is that any mortal that became a god won’t rival a natural god.
So you’d never see sigmar or slaanesh charging into one of the chaos gods and living.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/18 12:35:16


Post by: Cronch


Ok, if any mortal-god can't rival a real god, how come Nagash destroyed all the pre-existing Death gods? We know he did, and we know they weren't incarnates from Old World but native gods of Mortal realms.

As for Sigmar or Nagash not taking on chaos gods...Sigmar managed to spank Nurgle just by sending one turbo-charged lord Relictor into his garden. If a stormcast can hurt and wound Nurgle...


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/18 12:46:11


Post by: Manfred von Drakken


Cronch wrote:
...what kind of god relies on trinkets to win against mortals?


Well, I have heard of this one dude named Thor...

Besides, Sigmar was a god BEFORE the end of the Old World. He just got stuck in a mortal body during the End Times.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/18 13:00:46


Post by: Overread


They are self titled Gods who draw power from belief and worship (and other sources). However they are not how we might envision a God like the Christian God viewpoint where you've a single being that can create a whole universe.

Heck they have trouble just making life in itself. Sigmar's Stormcast are cracking; Aelf remakings of their people are twisted and damaged.

We also see that they cannot create souls. They recycle them, but they cannot create a soul, the actual starting point of life.




They are also nearly all risen from mortal sources, all were once mortal or at least living normal creatures that have risen in power. This gives them great powers, but they still obey the rules of the universe like a regular human or dwarf. Thus weapons of great power are still important to them; thus armour and shields. Thus they can be killed. Heck the Mortal Realms feature God Beasts which are beasts of godlike powers capable of killing gods.


They are very much like the Norse/Greek depiction of gods - powerful supreme beings that are, ultimately, mortal at their core. They have passions and desires; they argue and fight; they are born and can die; they can be tricked and deceived and they cannot be all places at once.



The Chaos Gods themselves are probably the closest to actual Gods as we might understand them in terms of omnipotent power and rebirth and of how they feed of souls. Of course they are from another Realm where they rule with almost impunity. Interestingly the Great Horned Rat is also there now, but not feeding off souls the same way and he doesn't seem to have a realm there like the other Chaos Gods - indeed the Skaven have their own Ruinous Realm of Death that Nagash has not yet taken.

Indeed even after the Necroquake Nagash hasn't taken over all the other Death Gods. He's still very much in the process of conquering and invading and having to take each step of ground, though the Quake and his Black Pyramid has at least secured him a bulk control over his Realm. Even if in doing so he's created a Black Hole that's sucking in the dead souls into a place even he has no idea where it leads too or to what end. Furthermore he's also still a "mortal god" he can be destroyed or killed with the right approach.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
Cronch wrote:
...what kind of god relies on trinkets to win against mortals?


Well, I have heard of this one dude named Thor...

Besides, Sigmar was a god BEFORE the end of the Old World. He just got stuck in a mortal body during the End Times.


He was a man in the Old World who became a God.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/18 14:07:43


Post by: Voss


 Overread wrote:
They are self titled Gods who draw power from belief and worship (and other sources). However they are not how we might envision a God like the Christian God viewpoint where you've a single being that can create a whole universe.

Heck they have trouble just making life in itself. Sigmar's Stormcast are cracking; Aelf remakings of their people are twisted and damaged.

We also see that they cannot create souls. They recycle them, but they cannot create a soul, the actual starting point of life.

It obviously isn't, since the deepkin were created and living- a 'soul' wasn't the starting point of life. Based on them, souls seem more like an addictive substance things need to keep living, the deepkin just use them up faster.
In fact based on how everyone uses them (Nagash, Sigmar, Chaos Gods, Elf gods), souls seem to be little more than batteries to make their toys shamble on.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/18 14:16:00


Post by: Overread


Voss wrote:
 Overread wrote:
They are self titled Gods who draw power from belief and worship (and other sources). However they are not how we might envision a God like the Christian God viewpoint where you've a single being that can create a whole universe.

Heck they have trouble just making life in itself. Sigmar's Stormcast are cracking; Aelf remakings of their people are twisted and damaged.

We also see that they cannot create souls. They recycle them, but they cannot create a soul, the actual starting point of life.

It obviously isn't, since the deepkin were created and living- a 'soul' wasn't the starting point of life. Based on them, souls seem more like an addictive substance things need to keep living, the deepkin just use them up faster.
In fact based on how everyone uses them (Nagash, Sigmar, Chaos Gods, Elf gods), souls seem to be little more than batteries to make their toys shamble on.


Deepkin, far as I'm aware, were made from the souls harvested from Slaanesh. They are living creatures, however when they reproduce (ergo make more Deepkin on their own) their offspring have withered souls which can wither to a point of them lacking any sense of life. So they are basically soul-vampires.

Souls are a bit akin to batteries, however its clear that making new souls is beyond the Gods otherwise they'd just make new souls and make endless armies with them. Instead Stormcast are recycled souls; Nagash is doing the very same for his armies in recycling souls that have passed to the realm of death. Even going as far as to chop and reshape them into new forms with the Ossiarchs.

However they still cannot create the raw souls itself; that seems to be a unique property to the mortals and normal reproductive cycles for the various species. It suggests that there are powers and means beyond the Gods. Which fits with their lore as the Gods did not create the universe nor even the Mortal Realms. Instead the Gods are uplifted mortals risen to insane levels of power, but still, at their very core, mortals bound to the same rules.



So the "battery" of life can be remade, reshaped, reformed, chopped and moved around. But none of the gods can create them fresh. The only way they might would be through natural birth and it seems nothing more.

Interesting to note - we know that Deepkin don't reproduce fully successfully; however we've not heard if Morathi's soul-created creations (Melusai and Khinerai) reproduce at all nor what the results are if they do. It will be interesting to read about the new Aelf force and what composition they are - if they are all souls reforged from Slaanesh or if they are a mix or what.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/18 15:20:37


Post by: Mr_Rose


It is apparent that in Warhammer, the only way to create new souls is by the action of existing living souls, and Teclis screwed that up with the Idoneth. Something about how he reshaped the souls he got from Slaanesh removed or muted that function, possibly because he was inexperienced at the whole ‘making a new species’ thing and was overreacting to the derivation from a tainted source by deliberately squishing anything related to lust. Frankly he’s lucky they reproduce at all….

Sigmar’s problem is unrelated: he’s recycling souls that have died without even trying to salve their death-trauma, which is what places like heaven or Valhalla or whatever are for. Then he goes and sticks them back into bodies that still remember dying and the problem is compounded. Basically it’s the Robocop Problem only he hasn’t even bothered to try to wipe the Stormcasts’ memories, much less let them get used to the idea of still being able to be a person even after dying.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/18 15:29:34


Post by: JSG


 Mr_Rose wrote:
It is apparent that in Warhammer, the only way to create new souls is by the action of existing living souls, and Teclis screwed that up with the Idoneth. Something about how he reshaped the souls he got from Slaanesh removed or muted that function, possibly because he was inexperienced at the whole ‘making a new species’ thing and was overreacting to the derivation from a tainted source by deliberately squishing anything related to lust. Frankly he’s lucky they reproduce at all….

Sigmar’s problem is unrelated: he’s recycling souls that have died without even trying to salve their death-trauma, which is what places like heaven or Valhalla or whatever are for. Then he goes and sticks them back into bodies that still remember dying and the problem is compounded. Basically it’s the Robocop Problem only he hasn’t even bothered to try to wipe the Stormcasts’ memories, much less let them get used to the idea of still being able to be a person even after dying.


TBF he was pressed for time.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/18 15:35:29


Post by: Overread


 Mr_Rose wrote:

Sigmar’s problem is unrelated: he’s recycling souls that have died without even trying to salve their death-trauma, which is what places like heaven or Valhalla or whatever are for. Then he goes and sticks them back into bodies that still remember dying and the problem is compounded. Basically it’s the Robocop Problem only he hasn’t even bothered to try to wipe the Stormcasts’ memories, much less let them get used to the idea of still being able to be a person even after dying.


Actually he does wipe their memories. However they are Robocops who remember that they were once alive and its commonly known too. Plus the process is somewhat random - some remember everything, many remember some, some remember nothing. What's worse is when you get re-forged you lose even more not just of your long distant past, but of your Stormcast past too. It's not so much that there's no memory wiping, but that its random and erratic at what gets wiped; and that each time they go through it they lose more of themselves.

There's also, I think, a clear element of Sigmar imposing his hatred of Chaos going on during the Forging process. Which explains why stormcast who are reforged get more and more zealous whilst at the same time courting less stable mentality and humanity.


Add to that the fact that many of them were plucked from the jaws of doom hundreds of years ago and even what they might remember of the world has gone (much lost to Chaos). Families and friends - often some of the very things that made them fight so hard against chaos, are basically gone. What little they can remember is changed and altered. They are aliens in their own world. Indeed it wouldn't surprise me if we see more of this come out as interior regions get more stable and the front line pushes back; potentially if we start to see retired Stormcast or Stormcast working in the interior where they can't so easily lose themselves in the chaos of regular front, line battle.




WE also don't know what influence the Grand Arena has upon them. Malarion gifted it to Sigmar to let his warriors fight to the death without suffering actual death, however its clear that there's some malicious purpose to his gift. We likely won't find it out until his Battletome releases - though even then it might be kept hidden.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/18 15:43:03


Post by: Mr Morden


 Overread wrote:
They are self titled Gods who draw power from belief and worship (and other sources). However they are not how we might envision a God like the Christian God viewpoint where you've a single being that can create a whole universe.

Heck they have trouble just making life in itself. Sigmar's Stormcast are cracking; Aelf remakings of their people are twisted and damaged.

We also see that they cannot create souls. They recycle them, but they cannot create a soul, the actual starting point of life.

They are also nearly all risen from mortal sources, all were once mortal or at least living normal creatures that have risen in power. This gives them great powers, but they still obey the rules of the universe like a regular human or dwarf. Thus weapons of great power are still important to them; thus armour and shields. Thus they can be killed. Heck the Mortal Realms feature God Beasts which are beasts of godlike powers capable of killing gods.

They are very much like the Norse/Greek depiction of gods - powerful supreme beings that are, ultimately, mortal at their core. They have passions and desires; they argue and fight; they are born and can die; they can be tricked and deceived and they cannot be all places at once.

The Chaos Gods themselves are probably the closest to actual Gods as we might understand them in terms of omnipotent power and rebirth and of how they feed of souls. Of course they are from another Realm where they rule with almost impunity. Interestingly the Great Horned Rat is also there now, but not feeding off souls the same way and he doesn't seem to have a realm there like the other Chaos Gods - indeed the Skaven have their own Ruinous Realm of Death that Nagash has not yet taken.

Indeed even after the Necroquake Nagash hasn't taken over all the other Death Gods. He's still very much in the process of conquering and invading and having to take each step of ground, though the Quake and his Black Pyramid has at least secured him a bulk control over his Realm. Even if in doing so he's created a Black Hole that's sucking in the dead souls into a place even he has no idea where it leads too or to what end. Furthermore he's also still a "mortal god" he can be destroyed or killed with the right approach.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
Cronch wrote:
...what kind of god relies on trinkets to win against mortals?


Well, I have heard of this one dude named Thor...

Besides, Sigmar was a god BEFORE the end of the Old World. He just got stuck in a mortal body during the End Times.


He was a man in the Old World who became a God.


Agreed and great post - after all Nagash was just a man once as well. Some AOS lore also states that not even Nagash can hold onto souls indefinately and that he does not know where they go then but alot more contradicts this. Nagash also has not conquered all of Shyish and there are death gods still hidden or not truly dead/devoured, plus one assumes if Nagash was somehow slain the other gods of death would be reborn Chronos/Zeus and siblings style.

Even in the original Old World, it seemed that some or all of the Human gods were actually humans who had ascended - Ranald being the most obvious, but there are references to Myrmidia living a mortal life as well.

Some of the the Elf Gods were depicted in some lore as vast warp entities akin to the Choas Gods/damons and only partially aware of the mortal world.

Many mythological gods have a symbolic weapon.or artfefact - see the Greek Gods especially

WE also don't know what influence the Grand Arena has upon them. Malarion gifted it to Sigmar to let his warriors fight to the death without suffering actual death, however its clear that there's some malicious purpose to his gift. We likely won't find it out until his Battletome releases - though even then it might be kept hidden.


Its been noted that he uses it to obseve the Stormcast fighting styles, tactics etc


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/18 17:35:00


Post by: NinthMusketeer


When it comes to Nagash one must consider his power is in a lot of places at once. Unlike many of the others he is made up of different aspects just as death means different things to different people. Some of these aspects are even worshipped separately/in their own way, like Nagash-Morr. The Soul Wars novel gets into this, I'm not really doing it justice.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/18 18:26:30


Post by: Galas


I always see "gods" on the tabletop as avatars of the god, like Avatars of Khaine or Greater Demons that are basically avatars of the four chaos gods.

Then you have Archaon but he's no god... no mortal either.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/19 02:32:26


Post by: AegisGrimm


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
He's going to be floating on so much swirly bull gak that it'll put the Celestant Prime to shame.


I was just about to post that, lol! Base will have more plastic than the figure....


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/19 10:05:22


Post by: Fayric


Clearly, the gods of AoS act out of necessity.
Elven gods need to appear on the battlefield because their followers/children still need all the help they can get. And the gods dont really like to keep asking the stormcast for help.

Sigmar can rely on the SC chambers to manage on their own, and have more important things like budgets and board meetings to handle.

Nagash is like skeletor -he act as if he is a major player, but actually need to manage most stuff himself because he is surrounded by blundering fools.

The chaos gods probably cant even leave the relam of chaos, So they rely on corrupting and manipulating others.

Skaven are just skaven, busy busy doing... stuff.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/19 13:10:15


Post by: SamusDrake


 EnTyme wrote:
SamusDrake wrote:
Could this be the year of Pointy Aelves and Eldar?


Just this once, can we not do this? It always ends up the same way. A playre says "Year of the Elf" on a facebook post, the social media gives a non-committal response like "sounds fun", and everyone takes it as a blood oath from GW. Six month later, Aeldar get 2-3 really cool kits, then moves on to the next release. The community gets up in arms because GW "promised" Year of the Elf, but we only got X kits! Where's my Year of the Elf?!? It's Orktober/C'thulu Elves all over again.


Sounds like you have been hurt too many times in the past, my friend. I feel your pain.

But seriously, if they do any Eldar and "Pointy Aelves" releases this year, it would be awesome. I think they were more for the benefit of the Black Library than the 40K game, but the Triumvirate of Ynnead was a snazzy release back in 2017. For their presence in Kill Team, I've got a feeling we might get warlocks, scorpions or rangers. They are doing something for the pointy elfs this year, so just one or two Eldar kits would be enough.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/19 14:26:07


Post by: EnTyme


Not really. It just gets old watching people rage about GW breaking a promise they never made.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/19 14:50:40


Post by: SamusDrake


 EnTyme wrote:
Not really. It just gets old watching people rage about GW breaking a promise they never made.


If its up there with discussions about numerous marine releases and "titanicus scale" then sure, we'll move on.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/19 22:14:30


Post by: streetsamurai


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
He's going to be floating on so much swirly bull gak that it'll put the Celestant Prime to shame.


Posting a pic of that abomination should be a bannable offense. One of GW worst mini ever, imo, up there with the clown king.

Can't wait to see these new eleves. Seems like we haven't seen anything new from GW for the last few months.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/19 22:36:43


Post by: NinthMusketeer


 streetsamurai wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
He's going to be floating on so much swirly bull gak that it'll put the Celestant Prime to shame.


Posting a pic of that abomination should be a bannable offense. One of GW worst mini ever, imo, up there with the clown king.

Can't wait to see these new eleves. Seems like we haven't seen anything new from GW for the last few months.
C'mon, the dreadknight exists!


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/19 23:19:49


Post by: Theophony


 NinthMusketeer wrote:
 streetsamurai wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
He's going to be floating on so much swirly bull gak that it'll put the Celestant Prime to shame.


Posting a pic of that abomination should be a bannable offense. One of GW worst mini ever, imo, up there with the clown king.

Can't wait to see these new eleves. Seems like we haven't seen anything new from GW for the last few months.
C'mon, the dreadknight exists!

Pumbagor


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/19 23:35:24


Post by: GaroRobe


 Theophony wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
 streetsamurai wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
He's going to be floating on so much swirly bull gak that it'll put the Celestant Prime to shame.


Posting a pic of that abomination should be a bannable offense. One of GW worst mini ever, imo, up there with the clown king.

Can't wait to see these new eleves. Seems like we haven't seen anything new from GW for the last few months.
C'mon, the dreadknight exists!

Pumbagor


Spoiler:


I can't hear you, you'll have to speak up


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/20 00:05:43


Post by: Overread


Garo wins!





Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/20 01:52:51


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Nah, Pumbagore is still worse than Screaming Mimi there.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/20 02:04:53


Post by: Argive


That image is a big nope from me... I shudder at the though of what other silliness is coming lol. But hey ho.. each to their own.

At least some people seem to keen so I'm glad for them to have something to be excited about and buy some cool new mini


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/20 02:24:50


Post by: Carlovonsexron


 NinthMusketeer wrote:
 streetsamurai wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
He's going to be floating on so much swirly bull gak that it'll put the Celestant Prime to shame.


Posting a pic of that abomination should be a bannable offense. One of GW worst mini ever, imo, up there with the clown king.

Can't wait to see these new eleves. Seems like we haven't seen anything new from GW for the last few months.
C'mon, the dreadknight exists!


To be fair, I think its the concept and design of the dreadknight that are utterly terrible, but as that concept is actually put into 3D form, its fine. A fine rendering of a terrible idea.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/20 02:35:21


Post by: Chikout


The prime is a 70% good model. It just the swirly bits at the bottom that are awful. There are ways to make a floating model look great.
Personally I hoping for plenty of dragons in the new army.

[Thumb - B25007B4-C08B-46A7-A82C-83AEC87D2AB2.png]


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/20 03:19:57


Post by: kestral


I *like* the sister Dialogos. Gotta get one.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/20 06:35:54


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
 Sacredroach wrote:
Not a High Elf player, but that design is pretty great. Maybe my Morathi needs a mate...


No man in their right mind would ever be alone with Morathi.


You're suggesting she thinks mates should be like Kleenex: soft, strong, and disposable?


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/20 08:42:03


Post by: Cronch


The swirls on Voltron Prime are the best part of that godawful thing. It embodies everything wrong with the 1st wave of SCE...


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/20 08:48:44


Post by: Da Boss


The swirls are a poor choice but apart from that the model looks cool. Though as a gaming piece it is pretty easy to break those wings.
Would not pay the asking price for it though!

As for Age of Sigmar bringing back another character from Warhamer Fantasy? Boring! They blew up the Old World and totally obliterated it, but they are too lazy to come up with any new characters or any new or exciting ideas for the setting past Stormcast and now these new bone guys, who are basicaly undead stormcast. GW is really not that hot creatively any more.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/20 08:51:49


Post by: Manfred von Drakken


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
 Sacredroach wrote:
Not a High Elf player, but that design is pretty great. Maybe my Morathi needs a mate...


No man in their right mind would ever be alone with Morathi.


You're suggesting she thinks mates should be like Kleenex: soft, strong, and disposable?


Thank you for knowing that. Exalted!

Everyone is talking about how they hope Teclis isn't floating on swirly stuff - wait till they see the giant pile of rubble instead.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/20 09:13:03


Post by: Cronch


 Da Boss wrote:


As for Age of Sigmar bringing back another character from Warhamer Fantasy? Boring! They blew up the Old World and totally obliterated it, but they are too lazy to come up with any new characters or any new or exciting ideas for the setting past Stormcast and now these new bone guys, who are basicaly undead stormcast. GW is really not that hot creatively any more.

It never was, but the old cast had 30 years to become "iconic". I mean..."Malus Darkblade" is a name that someone came up with and wasn't laughted out of the editor's office.
That being said, AoS does have a number of interesting new characters (including stormcast..I'd really like to have Hamilcar and Gardus as models!), but the Studio would rather recycle Old World chars like Gotrek and every elven hero in existence instead.
People like to complain that AoS has no interesting OCs, but that's entirely on GWs main studio.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/20 11:00:57


Post by: Fayric


Teclis Will be standing on prismatic pillars of light forming a bridge in mid air. Mark my words.

Seriously though, looking at the awesome Idoneth, this release has the potentiality to look just as good.
The Aspects of sea and storm is already a pretty close hint at how Teclis should look.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/20 11:37:12


Post by: Lord Kragan


 Da Boss wrote:
The swirls are a poor choice but apart from that the model looks cool. Though as a gaming piece it is pretty easy to break those wings.
Would not pay the asking price for it though!

As for Age of Sigmar bringing back another character from Warhamer Fantasy? Boring! They blew up the Old World and totally obliterated it, but they are too lazy to come up with any new characters or any new or exciting ideas for the setting past Stormcast and now these new bone guys, who are basicaly undead stormcast. GW is really not that hot creatively any more.


Yeah, Brokk and Volturnos are totes Old World OGs. Olynder and Kurdoss are actuallly a reiklander couple, and Gordrakk and Skraggrot are from Karak eight peaks!

Also

>bringing back.

Bud, he's been there from day 1, they are not bringing him back, he's been always been there.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/20 11:43:22


Post by: Da Boss


They had the chance to move on from the Old World, which they destroyed in a way that communicated a certain contempt for it. Instead they just made important characters from that world the "gods" of the new one, instead of doing something interesting an original with their new setting. It was half baked and poorly defined from the start, and it is built on sand due to trying to maintain links with the Old World.

I have no idea who these characters you are referencing are, because they are crowded out by all the references to characters from the Old World.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/20 11:51:05


Post by: Lord Kragan


 Da Boss wrote:
They had the chance to move on from the Old World, which they destroyed in a way that communicated a certain contempt for it. Instead they just made important characters from that world the "gods" of the new one, instead of doing something interesting an original with their new setting. It was half baked and poorly defined from the start, and it is built on sand due to trying to maintain links with the Old World.

I have no idea who these characters you are referencing are, because they are crowded out by all the references to characters from the Old World.



That is certainly a way of saying: "I am talking out of my rear, I am in truth ignorant of what I am talking about, but I will not admit it"


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/20 15:14:41


Post by: Geifer


 Da Boss wrote:
They had the chance to move on from the Old World, which they destroyed in a way that communicated a certain contempt for it. Instead they just made important characters from that world the "gods" of the new one, instead of doing something interesting an original with their new setting. It was half baked and poorly defined from the start, and it is built on sand due to trying to maintain links with the Old World.


It's probably not warranted to think of Age of Sigmar as a new setting. It's more of a reboot, really.

If you think of it like that, and given that GW recycled old models from the start and the motivation behind AoS was to modernize a fantasy setting GW was unable to sell anymore in its previous form you probably should, it's not surprising that they are not doing anything you'd consider original with it. If Hollywood has taught us anything about reboots it's that you need those superficial cues to remind the audience that they're seeing something familiar even though the connection to and respect for the original is strenuous at best.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/20 16:39:40


Post by: StarFyre


not liking the arms out to side silhouette. looks like the older model. would have preferred a pose like in that art they did.

sanjay


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/20 20:44:53


Post by: NinthMusketeer


 Da Boss wrote:
The swirls are a poor choice but apart from that the model looks cool. Though as a gaming piece it is pretty easy to break those wings.
Would not pay the asking price for it though!

As for Age of Sigmar bringing back another character from Warhamer Fantasy? Boring! They blew up the Old World and totally obliterated it, but they are too lazy to come up with any new characters or any new or exciting ideas for the setting past Stormcast and now these new bone guys, who are basicaly undead stormcast. GW is really not that hot creatively any more.
One of the biggest things fans asked for early-on was more ties to the old world and more lore updates for reborn characters. GW is giving what a lot of people asked for, I'm pleased to see it.

Also I feel like this is an unfair assessment; there is a huge amount of new ideas and new armies in Age of Sigmar and a good chunk of the writing is quite good when it comes to deeper fluff like novels. It makes me think you have not actually read much AoS fluff.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/20 21:06:28


Post by: Jackal90


 NinthMusketeer wrote:
 Da Boss wrote:
The swirls are a poor choice but apart from that the model looks cool. Though as a gaming piece it is pretty easy to break those wings.
Would not pay the asking price for it though!

As for Age of Sigmar bringing back another character from Warhamer Fantasy? Boring! They blew up the Old World and totally obliterated it, but they are too lazy to come up with any new characters or any new or exciting ideas for the setting past Stormcast and now these new bone guys, who are basicaly undead stormcast. GW is really not that hot creatively any more.
One of the biggest things fans asked for early-on was more ties to the old world and more lore updates for reborn characters. GW is giving what a lot of people asked for, I'm pleased to see it.

Also I feel like this is an unfair assessment; there is a huge amount of new ideas and new armies in Age of Sigmar and a good chunk of the writing is quite good when it comes to deeper fluff like novels. It makes me think you have not actually read much AoS fluff.



I agree.
One of the biggest issues people had was that the characters had been ripped away from it.
Bringing them back wouldn’t be a bad idea as it plays on nostalgia and helps people connect with it again.

New characters are nice, but I’d personally have some of the old ones back.
A brand new death master or kroak would never be a bad thing.


Sure, they can hash in a brand new hero with an entire backstory, but why do that when there are plenty of fan favourites that people would love to have back again (or the chance to use their old models)


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/20 21:19:13


Post by: No wolves on Fenris


It also ties in to the end times especially Khaine when it talks about the elven god’s basically being recycled and playing the roles again and again sometimes in new guises until chaos destroys them. Sigmar ‘s pantheon is the new pantheon with some of the old elves who were close to having godlike power being the new gods as well as some dwarfs and some from other races to Eg Sigmar, Nagash and GorkaMorka


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/20 22:32:47


Post by: Voss


 Geifer wrote:
 Da Boss wrote:
They had the chance to move on from the Old World, which they destroyed in a way that communicated a certain contempt for it. Instead they just made important characters from that world the "gods" of the new one, instead of doing something interesting an original with their new setting. It was half baked and poorly defined from the start, and it is built on sand due to trying to maintain links with the Old World.


It's probably not warranted to think of Age of Sigmar as a new setting. It's more of a reboot, really.


It really isn't. It doesn't have the same places, cultures, themes or people beyond a few famous idiots that were randomly granted a divine promotion. (or not, in a couple cases). Geography is completely different, famous cities don't exist, terminology was reused in an entirely different context, various creatures have different origins and goals, armies were shattered into subfactions, don't share the same origin or even the same purpose or relationships (allies, enemies, etc).

Claiming its a reboot (for...whatever reason) is very inaccurate.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/20 23:04:17


Post by: NinthMusketeer


I can see both perspectives, it's a very subjective matter and hard to really pin one side or the other as wrong.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/20 23:07:11


Post by: Voss


So... Karl Franz is going to ride out from Altdorf to reconquer Sylvania from the evil Van Carsteins in the next AoS supplement?


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/20 23:07:46


Post by: Mr Morden


 NinthMusketeer wrote:
 Da Boss wrote:
The swirls are a poor choice but apart from that the model looks cool. Though as a gaming piece it is pretty easy to break those wings.
Would not pay the asking price for it though!

As for Age of Sigmar bringing back another character from Warhamer Fantasy? Boring! They blew up the Old World and totally obliterated it, but they are too lazy to come up with any new characters or any new or exciting ideas for the setting past Stormcast and now these new bone guys, who are basicaly undead stormcast. GW is really not that hot creatively any more.
One of the biggest things fans asked for early-on was more ties to the old world and more lore updates for reborn characters. GW is giving what a lot of people asked for, I'm pleased to see it.

Also I feel like this is an unfair assessment; there is a huge amount of new ideas and new armies in Age of Sigmar and a good chunk of the writing is quite good when it comes to deeper fluff like novels. It makes me think you have not actually read much AoS fluff.


There have been some great new characters - Arkika Zenthe, Hamilcar Bear-eater, pretty much the whole cast of Spear of Shadows and they blend really well some of those that have survived the destruction of the old world but are not quite the same, really enjoyed the new Ikit Claw recently, familiar but with the difference that eons of teneous existance have made and his thefts of potent magic from many of the gods.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/20 23:52:36


Post by: Manfred von Drakken


Voss wrote:
So... Karl Franz is going to ride out from Altdorf to reconquer Sylvania from the evil Van Carsteins in the next AoS supplement?


I freakin' hope so.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/21 00:34:43


Post by: Overread


 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
Voss wrote:
So... Karl Franz is going to ride out from Altdorf to reconquer Sylvania from the evil Van Carsteins in the next AoS supplement?


I freakin' hope so.


I'm expecting a Von Cast.... sorry VAMPIRES Battletome from GW at some point. Splitting off units from Legions of Nagash and adding new ones. Vampires were very popular in the Old Wrold and remain so in the AoS and feature in a good few major lore stories too. I can well see that, just like Nighthaunt and Ossiarchs, we'll see a Vampires army split off from the Legions of Nagash and establish itself as its own thing


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/21 00:50:23


Post by: Carnikang


Voss wrote:
So... Karl Franz is going to ride out from Altdorf to reconquer Sylvania from the evil Van Carsteins in the next AoS supplement?


Karlvonlieber Franzisch* will ride out from Aeltduardf*to reconquer the kingdom of Sylvanysh* in the realm of Shyish, from the evil Von Carsteins (Mannfred is still a thing, so I guess his bloodline is still a thing?) in the next supplement after the Siege of the Allpoints by the Ossiarch Bonereapers.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/21 00:54:25


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Overread wrote:
... VAMPIRES Battletome...
Vampires? Surely you mean the Skulkwing Darkshrieks or the Vilewing Bloodreapers or some other nonsense name...


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/21 01:03:54


Post by: Carnikang


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Overread wrote:
... VAMPIRES Battletome...
Vampires? Surely you mean the Skulkwing Darkshrieks or the Vilewing Bloodreapers or some other nonsense name...


Nah man, they're already called Soulblight, so they'll be like the Soulblight Nobility or something like that.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/21 02:05:18


Post by: NinthMusketeer


Well Soulblight are a specific type of vampire. Ghoul Kings are vampires too, but not Soulblight.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/21 02:26:02


Post by: Eumerin


Voss wrote:
So... Karl Franz is going to ride out from Altdorf to reconquer Sylvania from the evil Van Carsteins in the next AoS supplement?


He'll probably show up sooner or later as a Stormcast. And as others have noted, one of the Van Carsteins - Mannfred - is still around and causing trouble. A showdown between the two of them isn't impossible.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/21 02:32:20


Post by: Tiberius501


I quite like that some of the characters lived and made it into Sigmar. The main reason I see for this is because they wanted to keep all the cool updated models still sellable, or they were too popular to drop.
But to me it feels like continuity and is cool seeing how these characters deal with the new setting.
I can see why some don’t like it though, but to me, personally, it’s interesting.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/21 03:07:51


Post by: Alpharius


 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
Voss wrote:
So... Karl Franz is going to ride out from Altdorf to reconquer Sylvania from the evil Van Carsteins in the next AoS supplement?


I freakin' hope so.


Ha!

(And me too!)

That was one of the best things about the Olde Worlde Empire - just a bunch of regular guys (ok, really smart and with sone good magic!) doing what they could to hold back the darkness


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/21 03:09:48


Post by: EnTyme


Isn't Franz the Celestant Prime?


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/21 03:20:45


Post by: Tiberius501


 EnTyme wrote:
Isn't Franz the Celestant Prime?


It’s heavily implied, yeah.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/21 04:55:00


Post by: Eumerin


 Tiberius501 wrote:
 EnTyme wrote:
Isn't Franz the Celestant Prime?


It’s heavily implied, yeah.


Well, then, there you go. Celestant Prime vs. Mannfred!


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/21 05:01:44


Post by: streetsamurai


 Alpharius wrote:
 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
Voss wrote:
So... Karl Franz is going to ride out from Altdorf to reconquer Sylvania from the evil Van Carsteins in the next AoS supplement?


I freakin' hope so.


Ha!

(And me too!)

That was one of the best things about the Olde Worlde Empire - just a bunch of regular guys (ok, really smart and with sone good magic!) doing what they could to hold back the darkness


Yeah

And it is why the AOS doesn't interest me the slightest. Way too High fantasy.

Still like to see the new miniatures they release for the setting though


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/21 05:53:34


Post by: insaniak


 NinthMusketeer wrote:
One of the biggest things fans asked for early-on was more ties to the old world and more lore updates for reborn characters. GW is giving what a lot of people asked for, I'm pleased to see it.

Also I feel like this is an unfair assessment; there is a huge amount of new ideas and new armies in Age of Sigmar and a good chunk of the writing is quite good when it comes to deeper fluff like novels. It makes me think you have not actually read much AoS fluff.

Indeed, as much as I prefer the Old World for the 'classic' elves/dwarfs/orcs/etc fantasy feel, and have no real interest in picking up AoS, the one thing you can't fault it for is creativity. It's quite possibly the most creative setting overall that GW have ever produced. The fact that it ties back to the Old World is a bonus, not a cause for complaint.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/21 07:55:09


Post by: BertBert


GW will come around to releasing more Old World stuff eventually. The IP is strong as ever and customer feedback is pretty clear on that front. The question is whether they will infuse AoS with it or create a whole new thing.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/21 08:44:40


Post by: Cronch


 Tiberius501 wrote:
 EnTyme wrote:
Isn't Franz the Celestant Prime?


It’s heavily implied, yeah.

How? He's supposed to be a mighty warrior from the Age of Myth. Age of Myth is AoS/Mortal Realms thing, not Old World.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/21 09:31:36


Post by: Danny76


I haven’t read the fluff that says/implies it so wouldn’t know.

But yeah Myth was post Old World.
Though I suppose they could easily have the story that Franz came through to the AoM and then became a great hero then, or something..


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/21 09:52:19


Post by: NinthMusketeer


 Alpharius wrote:
 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
Voss wrote:
So... Karl Franz is going to ride out from Altdorf to reconquer Sylvania from the evil Van Carsteins in the next AoS supplement?


I freakin' hope so.


Ha!

(And me too!)

That was one of the best things about the Olde Worlde Empire - just a bunch of regular guys (ok, really smart and with sone good magic!) doing what they could to hold back the darkness
I agree that was one of the better themes of the Old World. It is one they chose not to have in AoS, but I don't fault AoS for not having it just as I don't fault the Old World for not having AoS' super-high-fantasy elements. I like them both for what they are.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/21 09:53:13


Post by: Lord Kragan


He is literally Don Quixote. He is whomever you want him to be.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/21 11:28:59


Post by: Crimson


I really don't care for these Old World callbacks in AOS. I liked the Old World, but it being the backstory of AOS is both irrelevant and silly. It would be better if they just treated AOS as its own thing.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/21 12:07:59


Post by: Tiberius501


Ah I think it may have been implied at some stage in the past. I seem to recall people talking about it that way but they’ve probably changed it since then.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/21 13:21:09


Post by: Mr Morden


 streetsamurai wrote:
 Alpharius wrote:
 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
Voss wrote:
So... Karl Franz is going to ride out from Altdorf to reconquer Sylvania from the evil Van Carsteins in the next AoS supplement?


I freakin' hope so.


Ha!

(And me too!)

That was one of the best things about the Olde Worlde Empire - just a bunch of regular guys (ok, really smart and with sone good magic!) doing what they could to hold back the darkness


Yeah

And it is why the AOS doesn't interest me the slightest. Way too High fantasy.

Still like to see the new miniatures they release for the setting though


AOS Novels like the recent Dark Harvest are themed similar to that sort of story......

Spoiler:
Harran Blackwood was a Warrior-Priest of ruthless virtue. Now he's a man with a scorched reputation, prowling the back alleys of Greywater Fastness, content to fight the petty wars of racketeers for survival. But when a desperate message arrives from an old friend, Blackwood is forced to confront a past he thought long buried. Summoned to the isolated village of Wald, Blackwood sets off on a perilous trek to ensure the sins of his former life remain forgotten. He soon discovers that Wald is a hostile, secretive place with sins of its own. Deep in the murky marshes, where the cruel chants of village folk echo and the stink of death hovers low, Blackwood must channel his bitterness and rage to defy the ancient darkness that now hunts him before he is devoured, body and soul.


Some of Warhammer Old World was low fantasy - often the rpg but some - Elves, Gotrek and Felix, Slann etc was pretty high fantasy as well - like AOS you can take what elements you like.

Ah I think it may have been implied at some stage in the past. I seem to recall people talking about it that way but they’ve probably changed it since then.
The World that was is still very much a part fo the back story not just for major characters like Morathi but also for what happened to Slaanesh etc.

Note that few if any of the AOS versions of the Warhamemr world characters are the same - except maybe Nagash and of course Gotrek who walked into it complaining about all the stupid chnages and names All the others are changes or flawed recreations or damaged by whats happened to them and thier world


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/21 13:23:39


Post by: Geifer


Voss wrote:
So... Karl Franz is going to ride out from Altdorf to reconquer Sylvania from the evil Van Carsteins in the next AoS supplement?


That's already happened. Except it was Karl Franz's much cooler boss riding out from his super flashy lightning-wreathed capital to put Von Carstein's more eviler boss in his place not in some blighted backwater province but in the actual REALM OF DEATH (capitalized for being much more metal than Sylvania) for not assisting his liege when called upon and generally trying to undermine the established order.

People and cultures from the Old World exist in AoS just fine, only flanderized and stereotyped beyond recognition. Themes, too. The only thing I'd give you are places, where GW went with a more magical monoform geography than the good old earth but with magic. The geography of AoS is actually functionally different. Even so if I were inclined to go with your idea of a reboot, I'd say three out of four aren't bad.

But then I don't hold reboots in high regard specifically because in their execution they tend not to respect the original material enough for my liking and only superficially resemble it. There's an idealized view of what a reboot should be and in my experience most reboots don't measure up to it.Thus I stand by my opinion that AoS is a reboot. It doesn't have to be a good execution of the concept to be one.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/21 21:23:00


Post by: NinthMusketeer


Whether AoS is good or bad execution is entirely subjective; people quite often blur the distinction between "I don't like this thing" and "this thing is objectively bad" it's something we all need to watch out for.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/21 22:34:24


Post by: Inquisitor Gideon


 Geifer wrote:
Voss wrote:
So... Karl Franz is going to ride out from Altdorf to reconquer Sylvania from the evil Van Carsteins in the next AoS supplement?


That's already happened. Except it was Karl Franz's much cooler boss riding out from his super flashy lightning-wreathed capital to put Von Carstein's more eviler boss in his place not in some blighted backwater province but in the actual REALM OF DEATH (capitalized for being much more metal than Sylvania) for not assisting his liege when called upon and generally trying to undermine the established order.

People and cultures from the Old World exist in AoS just fine, only flanderized and stereotyped beyond recognition. Themes, too. The only thing I'd give you are places, where GW went with a more magical monoform geography than the good old earth but with magic. The geography of AoS is actually functionally different. Even so if I were inclined to go with your idea of a reboot, I'd say three out of four aren't bad.

But then I don't hold reboots in high regard specifically because in their execution they tend not to respect the original material enough for my liking and only superficially resemble it. There's an idealized view of what a reboot should be and in my experience most reboots don't measure up to it.Thus I stand by my opinion that AoS is a reboot. It doesn't have to be a good execution of the concept to be one.


Could you go into detail about how you think the races are flanderized and stereotyped even more than they were in fantasy? Because every race there was every fantasy stereotype stuffed in as hard as possible.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/21 22:48:43


Post by: Prometheum5


 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
 Geifer wrote:
Voss wrote:


Could you go into detail about how you think the races are flanderized and stereotyped even more than they were in fantasy? Because every race there was every fantasy stereotype stuffed in as hard as possible.




Please don't. This thread sucks enough as it is. Neither news nor rumors.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/21 23:03:41


Post by: Overread


 Prometheum5 wrote:
 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
 Geifer wrote:
Voss wrote:


Could you go into detail about how you think the races are flanderized and stereotyped even more than they were in fantasy? Because every race there was every fantasy stereotype stuffed in as hard as possible.




Please don't. This thread sucks enough as it is. Neither news nor rumors.


We have to do something until the weekend news release!

As for rumours that's a very dry well now. GW is marketing like crazy so I'm guessing many of the staff that used to leak out info no longer want to risk their job to leak out info that we'll learn of through official channels anyway in good time. Plus the release schedule is so full its not like there's a week without some juicy news. We get the odd hint here and there, but by and large we don't get much now.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/21 23:07:23


Post by: Inquisitor Gideon


 Prometheum5 wrote:
 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
 Geifer wrote:
Voss wrote:


Could you go into detail about how you think the races are flanderized and stereotyped even more than they were in fantasy? Because every race there was every fantasy stereotype stuffed in as hard as possible.




Please don't. This thread sucks enough as it is. Neither news nor rumors.


I'm just curious. You get sweeping statements like that and it seems very rare anyone ever wants to actually explain what they mean.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/21 23:12:16


Post by: NinthMusketeer


I find sweeping statements should often be read with the context of "I feel like..." Written in front of it. In my experience it tends to be a person trying to express their feelings about a subject instead of making a literal statement, though they may not be aware of that or how a text-based communication medium can misdirect things.

Not saying that is or isn't the case here, just my general experience.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 02:23:13


Post by: streetsamurai


Seems pretty evident. wood elves were elves that lived in the woods and were close to nature, now they are literally tree-elves. Dwarves were the most technologically advanced race in the OW, in AOS, they are so technologically advanced, that they seems to be straight out of a Star Trek episode

Same thing for Ironjaws (even bigger orcs than the previously biggest orc subspecies: black orcs).

Don't think it's necessarly a bad thing, since these three releases were probably my favorite one for AOS style wise.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 02:54:29


Post by: Kanluwen


Sylvaneth aren't Elves.

They're forest spirits that have assumed the shape of Elves. That's been there since the start of AoS.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 03:14:49


Post by: streetsamurai


Yeah, much like the Wild rider of Kournous aren't (weren't) elves either. Still, apparence wise, they are indistinguishable from elves (well the half elf part of the tree revenants
of course) . And it goes without saying that the Sylvaneth are the AOS version of WHFB WE


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 03:40:33


Post by: Kanluwen


Except they're not.

We don't know what the Kurnothi(Skaeth's Wild Hunt from Beastgrave) are, backstory-wise. All we know is that they have a connection to Kurnoth and Alarielle.
The Tree Revenants literally took that form because of memories of the Protectors(Wanderers/Wood Elves). It's also why they have the weapons that they do, echoing the same.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 03:40:51


Post by: Galas


Flanderization is an inevitable ocurrence when those new AoS armies are made taking one small part of a greater army of fantasy and making an army out of it.

Take slayers and make fyreslayers, take black orcs and make Ironjawz, etc, etc...


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 03:56:59


Post by: NinthMusketeer


Except Tree-Revenants, Spite-Revenants, and Alarielle are all expansions of the Forest Spirits that were originally only things made completely of wood; Treemen, Dyrads, Tree-Kin. Kurnoth hunters are the only thing that fits the flanderization aspect.

Fyreslayers take the slayer aspect in a completely different direction. They share the name, the mohawks, and the bare skin. Everything else is different, not flanderized. I could go on.

Some things are to be sure, but a sweeping judgement of ApS armies as all flanderized falls into the same problem most sweeping statements do: they overgeneralize to the point of inaccuracy. That ties back into my comment above, where what a person actually means is that the setting FEELS like flanderized everything not so much that it actually is.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 03:58:45


Post by: streetsamurai


 Kanluwen wrote:
Except they're not.

We don't know what the Kurnothi(Skaeth's Wild Hunt from Beastgrave) are, backstory-wise. All we know is that they have a connection to Kurnoth and Alarielle.
The Tree Revenants literally took that form because of memories of the Protectors(Wanderers/Wood Elves). It's also why they have the weapons that they do, echoing the same.



You're being needlessly pedantic. I was referring to the fact that the theme, esthetic and history of both factions, share a lot of simlarities. Obviously, no new faction in AOS will be a direct port of a WHFB army, but therE's an obvious link between Sylvaneth and WE, much like there's an obvious one between fyreslarer and Slayers (even though their fluff is different)


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 04:06:50


Post by: Aesthete


 kestral wrote:
I *like* the sister Dialogos. Gotta get one.


Yeah she's adorable in a nerdy way.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 13:36:59


Post by: Geifer


 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Whether AoS is good or bad execution is entirely subjective; people quite often blur the distinction between "I don't like this thing" and "this thing is objectively bad" it's something we all need to watch out for.


Please note that I'm not saying AoS is bad on its own merits. Just as a reboot of Warhammer Fantasy (which I believe was GW's intention at the time).

There's nothing inherently wrong with AoS as its own setting.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Spoiler:
 Geifer wrote:
Voss wrote:
So... Karl Franz is going to ride out from Altdorf to reconquer Sylvania from the evil Van Carsteins in the next AoS supplement?


That's already happened. Except it was Karl Franz's much cooler boss riding out from his super flashy lightning-wreathed capital to put Von Carstein's more eviler boss in his place not in some blighted backwater province but in the actual REALM OF DEATH (capitalized for being much more metal than Sylvania) for not assisting his liege when called upon and generally trying to undermine the established order.

People and cultures from the Old World exist in AoS just fine, only flanderized and stereotyped beyond recognition. Themes, too. The only thing I'd give you are places, where GW went with a more magical monoform geography than the good old earth but with magic. The geography of AoS is actually functionally different. Even so if I were inclined to go with your idea of a reboot, I'd say three out of four aren't bad.

But then I don't hold reboots in high regard specifically because in their execution they tend not to respect the original material enough for my liking and only superficially resemble it. There's an idealized view of what a reboot should be and in my experience most reboots don't measure up to it.Thus I stand by my opinion that AoS is a reboot. It doesn't have to be a good execution of the concept to be one.


Could you go into detail about how you think the races are flanderized and stereotyped even more than they were in fantasy? Because every race there was every fantasy stereotype stuffed in as hard as possible.


Galas summed up the reason why I believe so nicely. It's mostly rooted in GW's original insistence to shatter functional factions into mini-factions themed around a very specific thing and either keeping them that way and pretending they were still in any way functional or building on them with further, thematically appropriate kits to make functional, if small armies out of them.

As an example, Daughters of Khaine are made up of a sub-subfaction of Dark Elves. Witch Elves were a part of Dark Elf society, but only a part of it, and contributed to shape the whole faction. AoS, on the other hand, treats them as their own faction and expanded the model line to make a functional army out of them, but what you're looking at background-wise is a cult of elves that is treated entirely as its own faction that is discrete from other elven factions and is culturally uniform.

I got very different impressions out of reading Army Book: Dark Elves and Battletome: Daughters of Khaine as far as the cultures of the described factions are concerned. Even accounting for different writing styles, Daughters of Khaine simply doesn't have as much to tell on the matter because it narrowed down the culture to a part of the Khainite aspect.

I assume novels and consolidating mini-faction have mitigated that to a degree, but for me the initial impression still lingers that an aspect of a culture was taken that had a strong identity and was readily identifiable to fans and then turned into a discrete faction for AoS that was that one thing and nothing else. I don't know of a better way to call that than flanderization.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 15:08:21


Post by: Inquisitor Gideon


 Geifer wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Whether AoS is good or bad execution is entirely subjective; people quite often blur the distinction between "I don't like this thing" and "this thing is objectively bad" it's something we all need to watch out for.


Please note that I'm not saying AoS is bad on its own merits. Just as a reboot of Warhammer Fantasy (which I believe was GW's intention at the time).

There's nothing inherently wrong with AoS as its own setting.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Spoiler:
 Geifer wrote:
Voss wrote:
So... Karl Franz is going to ride out from Altdorf to reconquer Sylvania from the evil Van Carsteins in the next AoS supplement?


That's already happened. Except it was Karl Franz's much cooler boss riding out from his super flashy lightning-wreathed capital to put Von Carstein's more eviler boss in his place not in some blighted backwater province but in the actual REALM OF DEATH (capitalized for being much more metal than Sylvania) for not assisting his liege when called upon and generally trying to undermine the established order.

People and cultures from the Old World exist in AoS just fine, only flanderized and stereotyped beyond recognition. Themes, too. The only thing I'd give you are places, where GW went with a more magical monoform geography than the good old earth but with magic. The geography of AoS is actually functionally different. Even so if I were inclined to go with your idea of a reboot, I'd say three out of four aren't bad.

But then I don't hold reboots in high regard specifically because in their execution they tend not to respect the original material enough for my liking and only superficially resemble it. There's an idealized view of what a reboot should be and in my experience most reboots don't measure up to it.Thus I stand by my opinion that AoS is a reboot. It doesn't have to be a good execution of the concept to be one.


Could you go into detail about how you think the races are flanderized and stereotyped even more than they were in fantasy? Because every race there was every fantasy stereotype stuffed in as hard as possible.


Galas summed up the reason why I believe so nicely. It's mostly rooted in GW's original insistence to shatter functional factions into mini-factions themed around a very specific thing and either keeping them that way and pretending they were still in any way functional or building on them with further, thematically appropriate kits to make functional, if small armies out of them.

As an example, Daughters of Khaine are made up of a sub-subfaction of Dark Elves. Witch Elves were a part of Dark Elf society, but only a part of it, and contributed to shape the whole faction. AoS, on the other hand, treats them as their own faction and expanded the model line to make a functional army out of them, but what you're looking at background-wise is a cult of elves that is treated entirely as its own faction that is discrete from other elven factions and is culturally uniform.

I got very different impressions out of reading Army Book: Dark Elves and Battletome: Daughters of Khaine as far as the cultures of the described factions are concerned. Even accounting for different writing styles, Daughters of Khaine simply doesn't have as much to tell on the matter because it narrowed down the culture to a part of the Khainite aspect.

I assume novels and consolidating mini-faction have mitigated that to a degree, but for me the initial impression still lingers that an aspect of a culture was taken that had a strong identity and was readily identifiable to fans and then turned into a discrete faction for AoS that was that one thing and nothing else. I don't know of a better way to call that than flanderization.


Now you see here's where i have a different experience from you. To me, when i read the old dark elf army books, the only experience i got was here's the 2D lol so edgy race, murder, rape, torture etc. (Incidentally the same issue i have with Dark Eldar). There was no real culture beyond that. Not that I ever saw anyway.

When we got the Daughters, we got one of the only interesting parts of the Dark Elves and they got expanded. We learned they're not just a murder cult, but can function in other societies, even thrive in them while they keep their blooded worship to themselves. How the society functions under Morathi is quite fascinating too. She lives on quite the figurative knife edge, risking massive civil war if the bulk of the Daughters ever realised what she was really doing.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 15:48:47


Post by: EnTyme


 streetsamurai wrote:

You're being needlessly pedantic. I was referring to the fact that the theme, esthetic and history of both factions, share a lot of simlarities. Obviously, no new faction in AOS will be a direct port of a WHFB army, but therE's an obvious link between Sylvaneth and WE, much like there's an obvious one between fyreslarer and Slayers (even though their fluff is different)


Now you're just moving the goalpost.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 15:51:53


Post by: Geifer


Dark Elves may not be a particularly good example of it (but I used it because Daughters are actually the last battletome I read) because they're a splinter faction of High Elves, and something commonly experienced in fantasy (or sci-fi) settings is that humans get to have the full breadth of character we know and love from real life while other races are stereotyped into certain racial traits. So Dark Elves are, depending on your perception, one or two steps more specific in their depiction and as such an entire people of 2D murdertorturerapists. But I'd argue that if you work within that context, they as a faction are still a step or two above Daughters depending on whether you view the latter as padded out Witch Elves or a different take on the Khainite cult.

I see your point and it's certainly not wrong that the Daughters background benefits from being an Order faction that got written into coexisting in civilized society to justify their existence in Order instead of, say, Destruction, but I'd argue that's a separate issue born of the different settings. Old Fantasy was set up as a free for all with individual army books delineating factions while AoS started out with Grand Alliances that are still the highest order even though faction identities got strengthened as GW moved towards 2nd ed battletomes. Dark Elves could be written without concern for how they would interact peacefully with other factions because there was no strict need for peaceful interaction. AoS with its strong theme of working together to stem the tide of Chaos cannot easily afford to leave unexplained how an Order faction deals with other Order factions.

That's more a question of style of setting and narrative need than strictly factional traits, in my opinion.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 16:03:00


Post by: Smellingsalts


Could I ask, what is flanderization?


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 16:22:45


Post by: Carnikang


Smellingsalts wrote:
Could I ask, what is flanderization?


Excessive exaggeration of a trait.

Space wolves for example.

Wolf Lord on a Thunder Wolf, with a wolffist hammer, named Wulf Wolfenson, leading Space wolves of the Blood Wolf company.
Rather than maintain their Scandinavian/Nordic naming conventions and culture in the Horus Heresy, they've been progressing towards just being Wolves in Space over the course of the editions.

I don't see that in AoS honestly, aside from DoK being focused on Murder. Even then they're not ALL called Murderella, weilding murder knives, wearing murder rags as they yell Murder for the Murder God... While that is present, they've got the Gorgon/Greecian vibe from a lot of their newer units.

Edit: Not that there isn't any in AoS. Its just not as prevelant at the moment because we've only had a few years for things to develop. Unlike certain faction's like space marines that only differentiate themselves from one another by flanderizing....


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 16:37:12


Post by: BertBert


 Carnikang wrote:
Smellingsalts wrote:
Could I ask, what is flanderization?


Excessive exaggeration of a trait.

Space wolves for example.

Wolf Lord on a Thunder Wolf, with a wolffist hammer, named Wulf Wolfenson, leading Space wolves of the Blood Wolf company.
Rather than maintain their Scandinavian/Nordic naming conventions and culture in the Horus Heresy, they've been progressing towards just being Wolves in Space over the course of the editions.

I don't see that in AoS honestly, aside from DoK being focused on Murder. Even then they're not ALL called Murderella, weilding murder knives, wearing murder rags as they yell Murder for the Murder God... While that is present, they've got the Gorgon/Greecian vibe from a lot of their newer units.


This conflation probably comes down to the ridiculous new approach to naming. It's not necessarily something that is inherent to AoS, but more of an unfortunate timing with AoS being released shortly after the Chapterhouse litigation was settled.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 16:38:53


Post by: EnTyme


 Carnikang wrote:
Smellingsalts wrote:
Could I ask, what is flanderization?


Excessive exaggeration of a trait.

Space wolves for example.

Wolf Lord on a Thunder Wolf, with a wolffist hammer, named Wulf Wolfenson, leading Space wolves of the Blood Wolf company.
Rather than maintain their Scandinavian/Nordic naming conventions and culture in the Horus Heresy, they've been progressing towards just being Wolves in Space over the course of the editions.

I don't see that in AoS honestly, aside from DoK being focused on Murder. Even then they're not ALL called Murderella, weilding murder knives, wearing murder rags as they yell Murder for the Murder God... While that is present, they've got the Gorgon/Greecian vibe from a lot of their newer units.

Edit: Not that there isn't any in AoS. Its just not as prevelant at the moment because we've only had a few years for things to develop. Unlike certain faction's like space marines that only differentiate themselves from one another by flanderizing....


See also: Khorne Mortals who seem to have been named by Nathan Explosion.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 16:41:07


Post by: NinthMusketeer


Smellingsalts wrote:
Could I ask, what is flanderization?
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Flanderization


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 17:14:13


Post by: ZebioLizard2


 EnTyme wrote:
 Carnikang wrote:
Smellingsalts wrote:
Could I ask, what is flanderization?


Excessive exaggeration of a trait.

Space wolves for example.

Wolf Lord on a Thunder Wolf, with a wolffist hammer, named Wulf Wolfenson, leading Space wolves of the Blood Wolf company.
Rather than maintain their Scandinavian/Nordic naming conventions and culture in the Horus Heresy, they've been progressing towards just being Wolves in Space over the course of the editions.

I don't see that in AoS honestly, aside from DoK being focused on Murder. Even then they're not ALL called Murderella, weilding murder knives, wearing murder rags as they yell Murder for the Murder God... While that is present, they've got the Gorgon/Greecian vibe from a lot of their newer units.

Edit: Not that there isn't any in AoS. Its just not as prevelant at the moment because we've only had a few years for things to develop. Unlike certain faction's like space marines that only differentiate themselves from one another by flanderizing....


See also: Khorne Mortals who seem to have been named by Nathan Explosion.
To be fair that's not new. Khorne naming conventions have always involved things like bodyparts, blood, bone, or in some special cases teeth and angry like emotions. Though it's mostly been background for weapons or army names rather then units.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 17:26:52


Post by: streetsamurai


 EnTyme wrote:
 streetsamurai wrote:

You're being needlessly pedantic. I was referring to the fact that the theme, esthetic and history of both factions, share a lot of simlarities. Obviously, no new faction in AOS will be a direct port of a WHFB army, but therE's an obvious link between Sylvaneth and WE, much like there's an obvious one between fyreslarer and Slayers (even though their fluff is different)


Now you're just moving the goalpost.


Not at all. I don't think you know what moving the goal post means


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 17:39:43


Post by: craggy


Skullblooders and Bloodskullers led by Skullyblood of the Bloodied Skulls.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 17:51:52


Post by: DaveC


Recent shipping bill lists "WARSCROLL CARDS SONS OF BEHEMAT" so it looks like the Aleguzzler Gargants are coming soon.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 17:53:55


Post by: Carnikang


 DaveC wrote:
Recent shipping bill lists "WARSCROLL CARDS SONS OF BEHEMAT" so it looks like the Aleguzzler Gargants are coming soon.


Oh boi, Giants vs light and pointy elves will be a battlebox coming soon I bet


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 18:06:47


Post by: Ghaz


 DaveC wrote:
Recent shipping bill lists "WARSCROLL CARDS SONS OF BEHEMAT" so it looks like the Aleguzzler Gargants are coming soon.

Sounds like fun. If this Rumor Engine pic isn't related to this release I'll be very surprised...

Spoiler:

Maybe we'll get a teaser from the LVO Preview tomorrow night!


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 18:09:40


Post by: streetsamurai


A giant army could be really cool


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 18:22:56


Post by: Sacredroach


I have always viewed AoS as sort of like the Star Trek reboot. They took the most notable aspects of the Old World races and just made them more so.

Some Dwarves have mohawks? Now, they all do! And they are fire-retardant. Others like machines? Make them almost steampunk-cyborgs!

Some Elves live in the forest and commune with nature? Now, they are literally tree-spirits! Others work with serpents? Half-breeds here we come!

Some humans wear armor and fight for their God? Stormcast Chamber on high alert! Make those bases bigger!

I have no issue with it, and frankly like the exaggeration. It actually give something of a "new" feel to the older fantasy tropes, all while paying homage to J.J.Abrams.

For an in-depth discussion about that Star Trek reference, check out Plinkett's Review of the new Star Trek (Red Letter Media). He is NSFW, but makes a ton of great points.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 18:36:34


Post by: Carlovonsexron


craggy wrote:
Skullblooders and Bloodskullers led by Skullyblood of the Bloodied Skulls.


It's so bad as to come full circle and be amazingly great!


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 18:46:00


Post by: Alpharius


 streetsamurai wrote:
A giant army could be really cool


If nothing else, it should have a lot going for it right off the bat!

And probably be really, really hard to transport safely.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 18:48:49


Post by: Jackal90


 Alpharius wrote:
 streetsamurai wrote:
A giant army could be really cool


If nothing else, it should have a lot going for it right off the bat!

And probably be really, really hard to transport safely.



Giants tend to be pretty chunky for the most part which helps a lot with safe transport.
To be fair though, I’ve been transporting Nighthaunt around for a while so stable models would be a welcome change lol.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 19:00:26


Post by: Ghaz


It will be interesting to see what a Sons of Behemat warband for Warcry looks like...


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 19:05:38


Post by: Smellingsalts


It would probably be 1 giant and a few little guys, otherwise you couldn't win missions that control board quarters or objectives.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 19:38:21


Post by: streetsamurai


That would suck. Would basically be goblins redux


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 19:39:32


Post by: Ghaz


Smellingsalts wrote:
It would probably be 1 giant and a few little guys, otherwise you couldn't win missions that control board quarters or objectives.

Little guys? Aleguzzler Gargant toddlers?


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 19:42:41


Post by: Voss


 Ghaz wrote:
It will be interesting to see what a Sons of Behemat warband for Warcry looks like...


I wonder if they're deliberately misspelling Bahamut or Behemoth for 'IP reasons' with this name.
The former implies a dragon connection, would could be more interesting.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 19:47:16


Post by: Carnikang


Voss wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
It will be interesting to see what a Sons of Behemat warband for Warcry looks like...


I wonder if they're deliberately misspelling Bahamut or Behemoth for 'IP reasons' with this name.
The former implies a dragon connection, would could be more interesting.

He's already a thing.

The Godbeast Behemat, known as the World-Titan or the Star Gargant. A creature around which the fate of the Mortal Realms once turned. He was a colossal creature of living stone that is rumoured to be the ancestor of the Aleguzzler Gargants.

Edit: he's dead now by the way, killed by the Lord celestant.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 20:26:31


Post by: Mr Morden


 DaveC wrote:
Recent shipping bill lists "WARSCROLL CARDS SONS OF BEHEMAT" so it looks like the Aleguzzler Gargants are coming soon.


Be quite nice to have some daughters as well - not many female giant models.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 20:33:33


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


Ah, Aleguzzler Gargants-Giants.

Racking-Fracking IP protection gibberish...


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 20:37:25


Post by: nagash42


What if the giants get some kind of objective secure ability for their guys?


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 20:40:35


Post by: Theophony


nagash42 wrote:
What if the giants get some kind of objective secure ability for their guys?

They walk by it and put it in their pocket for safe keeping .


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 21:18:55


Post by: EnTyme


 Carnikang wrote:
Voss wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
It will be interesting to see what a Sons of Behemat warband for Warcry looks like...


I wonder if they're deliberately misspelling Bahamut or Behemoth for 'IP reasons' with this name.
The former implies a dragon connection, would could be more interesting.

He's already a thing.

The Godbeast Behemat, known as the World-Titan or the Star Gargant. A creature around which the fate of the Mortal Realms once turned. He was a colossal creature of living stone that is rumoured to be the ancestor of the Aleguzzler Gargants.

Edit: he's dead now by the way, killed by the Lord celestant.


You mean to tell me someone complaining about GW doesn't even understand the thing they're complaining about? I'm shocked! Shocked, I tell you! Not to mention that Bahamut and Behemoth are different translations/spelling of the name of the same creature from Arabic mythology. I swear, the naming thing is probably the single most overblown complaint about GW.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 22:11:07


Post by: zamerion


by the great garro

So LVO has a studio preview in a couple of days, and I'm interested to see what they've got up their sleeves. As several game systems have cleared all their previewed models/releases.

Reminder this is a GW preview, not FW, so there won't be any 30k, or Resin previews.

I've got AoS picked as being the main event, with the 'Pointy Aelves' being the flagship Reveal, But I've had solid info saying Seraphon and the Sons of behemat (AoS giants) getting Battletomes in the very near future so they could show up as well.

Regarding Specialist Games, the same source has said that a Taros Campaign expansion will be coming soon for Aeronautica, which would indicate that T'au are the next faction joining that game. BloodBowl is also getting an Underworld Denizens team, but unsure if it will be fully new sculpts,or just a merged pack of the existing sprues for Goblins and Skaven, but they should be getting a Spike! magazine, dice, cards, and pitch for sure.

This source is a trusted one, who got me info regarding the plastic ZM scenery and the Slave to Darkness battletome ahead of their reveal/leaking. However until GW formally reveal them these are still rumours, so take a healthy amount of salt with it.

regarding 40K, imagine we'll see the pixelated Primaris skimmer and bikes, alongside some info for Psychic awakening book 6, and maybe 7+.

What are you all hoping to see?


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 23:38:34


Post by: DaveC


Seraphon warscroll cards have also been shipped

[Thumb - Seraphon.jpg]


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 23:40:44


Post by: zamerion


and giants!



Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 23:43:26


Post by: Kanluwen


I love the fact that apparently it shipped on "Ever Loyal"


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/22 23:44:46


Post by: Voss


I love that Memphis Tennessee has an international port.
Don't get me wrong, its factually true, but it always amuses me that the US has ports (and naval facilities) that are hundreds of miles inland.

There's one in the Shenandoah valley, 100 miles west of DC that I'd see signs for while traveling interstate 81, and it always made me smile.


Vessel name for the giants warscrolls: also very appropriate for GW products (though it'd be better if it were shipping Imperial Guard for 40k).


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/23 00:18:00


Post by: Gareth40K


Damn, I'd gladly buy an army of Gargants! Just take all the monies, GW.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/23 00:20:57


Post by: H.B.M.C.


I guess GW wants their Fantasy Imperial Knights equivalent army.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/23 00:31:44


Post by: NurglesR0T


Been waiting for Seraphon for ages, lets hope they finally figured out what to do with the faction.



Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/23 00:44:34


Post by: Voss


 NurglesR0T wrote:
Been waiting for Seraphon for ages, lets hope they finally figured out what to do with the faction.



Well, hopefully it includes some model updates, including plastic frog and krox, because those resin casts need to go. Even some of the plastics are fairly dire.

Thematically, personally I think they should trade up and embrace the space lizards angle, and not wallow in the mesoamericans, but lizards, quite so much. Space lizard angel dream fragments (or whatever they are) don't need to be held to obsidian swords because they aren't the Aztecs/Mayan proxies of the Old World anymore.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/23 00:46:16


Post by: Kanluwen


I wouldn't be shocked if Seraphon get a Slaves to Darkness style Start Collecting with some of the most desired stuff and something new.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/23 00:51:17


Post by: Tim the Biovore


I was disappointed that the Slaves SC was the extent of it for them, but if Seraphon get the same treatment and we end up with bigger plastic Saurus and improved Saurus Knights, I'd be very happy.

Should we expect to find out at the LVO, or does the shipping notice put them in too close a timeframe to take up that reveal slot?


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/23 00:51:19


Post by: Carlovonsexron


While I really .really hope the lizards get new models, I think that they will he left as the last man out.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/23 01:24:32


Post by: streetsamurai


 EnTyme wrote:
 Carnikang wrote:
Voss wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
It will be interesting to see what a Sons of Behemat warband for Warcry looks like...


I wonder if they're deliberately misspelling Bahamut or Behemoth for 'IP reasons' with this name.
The former implies a dragon connection, would could be more interesting.

He's already a thing.

The Godbeast Behemat, known as the World-Titan or the Star Gargant. A creature around which the fate of the Mortal Realms once turned. He was a colossal creature of living stone that is rumoured to be the ancestor of the Aleguzzler Gargants.

Edit: he's dead now by the way, killed by the Lord celestant.


You mean to tell me someone complaining about GW doesn't even understand the thing they're complaining about? I'm shocked! Shocked, I tell you! Not to mention that Bahamut and Behemoth are different translations/spelling of the name of the same creature from Arabic mythology. I swear, the naming thing is probably the single most overblown complaint about GW.


Behemoth is not arabic, its Babylonian. Babylonian were not arabs.bahamoth is probably the arabic translation of the name, but originally, it's a Babylonian creature


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/23 01:31:34


Post by: EnTyme


According to Wikipedia, Behemoth is Arabic. You may be thinking of the Babylonian demon, Baphomet, whom the Knights Templar were accused of worshipping.


Age of Sigmar N & R. : pg.46 Lumineth articles and endless spells. @ 2020/01/23 01:32:57


Post by: streetsamurai


No


Automatically Appended Next Post:
behemot) is a beast mentioned in Job 40:15–24. Suggested identities range from a mythological creature to an elephant, hippopotamus, rhinoceros, or buffalo.[1] Metaphorically, the name has come to be used for any extremely large or powerful entity. Both are of Babylonian origin, where they are creatures of the primal Chaos, Behemoth of the Earth and male, Leviathan of the Ocean Deep and


Automatically Appended Next Post:
behemot) is a beast mentioned in Job 40:15–24. Suggested identities range from a mythological creature to an elephant, hippopotamus, rhinoceros, or buffalo.[1] Metaphorically, the name has come to be used for any extremely large or powerful entity. Both are of Babylonian origin, where they are creatures of the primal Chaos, Behemoth of the Earth and male, Leviathan of the Ocean Deep and


Automatically Appended Next Post:
behemot) is a beast mentioned in Job 40:15–24. Suggested identities range from a mythological creature to an elephant, hippopotamus, rhinoceros, or buffalo.[1] Metaphorically, the name has come to be used for any extremely large or powerful entity. Both are of Babylonian origin, where they are creatures of the primal Chaos, Behemoth of the Earth and male, Leviathan of the Ocean Deep and

Not arabic, Babylonian." Modern Babylonians " are for the most part arabic, but at that time they weren't. And Baphomet was a babylonian daemon!!!??? Where did you get that from??? you seem very very confused


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Carlovonsexron wrote:
While I really .really hope the lizards get new models, I think that they will he left as the last man out.


Hopefully not. Im not a big fan of aos. But space lizard would be great