now I know what was missing

 kodos wrote:
now I know what was missing

That's class

Should really be a wave of blood but…

Yes, fantastic! Should get some Idoneth chasing her

A surfing racing game of sorts wouldn't be a bad thing. There's bound to be a water planet they can place it on, anyway. It could stand proud next to Bloodbowl.

With as goofy strange as AoS is, I could buy a vampire surfing. I mean its not supposed to be serious anyways.

 AngryAngel80 wrote:
The second vampire is worlds better but still I don't know, I'm not really digging their art direction. It feels passionless and dull am I the only one feeling that way ?

No, I feel the same way about them.

I don't know what it is exactly, there's just something... soulless about them (and not in a thematically-appropriate way ).

 kodos wrote:
now I know what was missing

That said, I'm digging this trend of photoshopping GW models.

I think this will stand right alongside the tennis one.

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Should really be a wave of blood but…

Yup, there's an alternative basing idea, right there. Army of vampires, all surfing on magical waves of blood.

You know, on second thought, I'm not sure I want GW to make some wolf shapeshifters. Sure, we could end up with great looking models. Or, we can end up with *Gasp* *choke* them...

 insaniak wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Should really be a wave of blood but…

Yup, there's an alternative basing idea, right there. Army of vampires, all surfing on magical waves of blood.

There's more than a few painted versions of that Idoneth leader with a cape of blood!

Even as a space wolf fan I can say, the wulfen are one of the most awful things GW has put out. Especially that front one doing the crane kick. I can't see them without thinking Teen Wolf.So yeah, for as much as I'd love some great Underworld type werewolves, I fear more teen wolves instead and the vampires don't do anything to remove that fear.

 GaroRobe wrote:
You know, on second thought, I'm not sure I want GW to make some wolf shapeshifters. Sure, we could end up with great looking models. Or, we can end up with *Gasp* *choke* them...

Spoiler:

Ginyu Force, assemble!

I'm a strange fellow. I actually like the wulfen. The only bit I don't like are the heads. But I also love GW minotaurs so ...

 AngryAngel80 wrote:
Even as a space wolf fan I can say, the wulfen are one of the most awful things GW has put out. Especially that front one doing the crane kick. I can't see them without thinking Teen Wolf.So yeah, for as much as I'd love some great Underworld type werewolves, I fear more teen wolves instead and the vampires don't do anything to remove that fear.

It's sadly ironic that the most wolfy bits are the worst parts of the Space Wolf range, visually... The wulfen, Fenrisian wolves and Thunderwolves are all awful models that should have been iconic, must-have units.

 kodos wrote:
now I know what was missing

Spoiler:

I rather love how the bats in the hair were still considered as too weird and silly looking here.

Not the first surfer from the Death Grand Alliance...

...models done by Franz D'Orlando...

There’s something incredibly disturbing about that beach dwelling warband.

At the same time, death can spend its free time doing whatever it wants, so who am I do judge?

That is great, love it.

Check out Franz’s other crazy creations here: https://m.facebook.com/franz.dorlando/photos?psm=default&album=pb.100001615465868.-2207520000..&lst=642135804%3A100001615465868%3A1611304009

 AngryAngel80 wrote:
Even as a space wolf fan I can say, the wulfen are one of the most awful things GW has put out. Especially that front one doing the crane kick. I can't see them without thinking Teen Wolf.So yeah, for as much as I'd love some great Underworld type werewolves, I fear more teen wolves instead and the vampires don't do anything to remove that fear.

The worst part is the Eye of Terror Wulfen still hold up really well.

Not really, they're goofy halloween mask tier bros, it's just that they're stll better than the new wulfen.

Cronch wrote:
Not really, they're goofy halloween mask tier bros, it's just that they're stll better than the new wulfen.

Might just be because those are painted like they're wearing gorilla suits

The look fine to me, far better than current.

Broken Realms: Teclis announced.

Teclis vs Nagash archmage throwdown!

Teclis, twin god of the realm of Hysh, marches to war with a colossal host of Lumineth Realm-lords at his back. Determined to bring an end to the catastrophic Soul Wars and punish Nagash for his hand in unleashing the Necroquake* that twisted the fate of the Mortal Realms, the Archmage and his armies are set to enact their judgement on the realm of Shyish itself.

But what trickeries does the Great Necromancer have in store for them? Can the purity of light banish the darkness of death itself? You’ll have to wait for Broken Realms: Teclis to find out.

I wonder if this is intended as LRL battletome 1.5 and Soulblight battletome, or is in addition to (kinda sucky if the factions would have to buy 2 books at the same time to have all their rules)

Soulblight might see a Battletome--Lumineth is likely to be "in addition to". Nobody from Morathi aside from Hedonites are seeing a new book...and they did not even get rules in the book.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Broken Realms: Teclis announced.

Teclis vs Nagash archmage throwdown!

Teclis, twin god of the realm of Hysh, marches to war with a colossal host of Lumineth Realm-lords at his back. Determined to bring an end to the catastrophic Soul Wars and punish Nagash for his hand in unleashing the Necroquake* that twisted the fate of the Mortal Realms, the Archmage and his armies are set to enact their judgement on the realm of Shyish itself.

But what trickeries does the Great Necromancer have in store for them? Can the purity of light banish the darkness of death itself? You’ll have to wait for Broken Realms: Teclis to find out.

Stoked!

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I wonder if this is intended as LRL battletome 1.5 and Soulblight battletome, or is in addition to (kinda sucky if the factions would have to buy 2 books at the same time to have all their rules)

It's like br1. Additional rules. Not replacement. Books for book　god is gw's mantra. Aos is light compared to 40k.

It's just new rules in addition. Also strong hint tyrion and his forces won't come yet. Likely those come with new battle tome later(either　new combined lumineth or separate you can use together or as allies).

Those dudes to the left, on that cliff with the temple thing, who have back banners and big swords... Blademasters?!

EDIT: Also, are those trebuchets/war machines on the horizon behind Teclis?

River temple are supposed to be blademasters...

Not blademasters straight up but the water temple warriors first seen　in warcry. Maybe 2 temples tomorrow

Edit: underworld. I keep mixing them

tneva82 wrote:
Not blademasters straight up but the water temple warriors first seen　in warcry. Maybe 2 temples tomorrow

Swordmasters was the name of the old unit.
"blademasters" is just a descriptive way of saying they use sharp things. Because we don't know if it's swords, axes, whatever--the mention in the Lumineth book is just that they sliced some necks open on some Orruks.

I just hope that arch way ends up being terrain...

 Kanluwen wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Not blademasters straight up but the water temple warriors first seen　in warcry. Maybe 2 temples tomorrow

Swordmasters was the name of the old unit.
"blademasters" is just a descriptive way of saying they use sharp things. Because we don't know if it's swords, axes, whatever--the mention in the Lumineth book is just that they sliced some necks open on some Orruks.

Ah sorry. Anyway we have　seen 1. And silhouette. Unless it's mixed weapon　unit it"s 2　handed　sword

So Teclis has a plan - yeah that will work out well. Like all of his other ones from the End Times onwards.

Teclis, twin god of the realm of Hysh, marches to war with a colossal host of Lumineth Realm-lords at his back. Determined to bring an end to the catastrophic Soul Wars and punish Nagash for his hand in unleashing the Necroquake that twisted the fate of the Mortal Realms, the Archmage and his armies are set to enact their judgement on the realm of Shyish itself.

However a disruption of the power of Nagash would be interesting - if Teclis can release some of the other gods of death etc


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Soulblight might see a Battletome--Lumineth is likely to be "in addition to". Nobody from Morathi aside from Hedonites are seeing a new book...and they did not even get rules in the book.

Hedonites got rules for Idolaters and new battalion - Gresh's Iron Reapers

Idolators is Slaves to Darkness, not Hedonites of Slaanesh.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Idolators is Slaves to Darkness, not Hedonites of Slaanesh.

Ahh your right - sorry my bad!

 Mr Morden wrote:
So Teclis has a plan - yeah that will work out well. Like all of his other ones from the End Times onwards.

Teclis, twin god of the realm of Hysh, marches to war with a colossal host of Lumineth Realm-lords at his back. Determined to bring an end to the catastrophic Soul Wars and punish Nagash for his hand in unleashing the Necroquake that twisted the fate of the Mortal Realms, the Archmage and his armies are set to enact their judgement on the realm of Shyish itself.

However a disruption of the power of Nagash would be interesting - if Teclis can release some of the other gods of death etc

Overwhelming hubris seems a great start (and typical for elfs).
No idea how one would enact judgement on an entire realm, but I'm sure that could in no way be bad and jeopardize the fabric of the... intertwined planes or whatever the AoS setting is.

Nagash does need knocking down a peg or three.

Right now he's got the most unified potential powerbase of all the factions and alliances.


Both Chaos and Urruks suffer the same issue in that whilst they can build vast armies and forces ,they can very easily collapse due to their own internal in-fighting and politics. So they both essentially have a built-in safeguard for other forces being overwhelmed.

All three of Order, Destruction and Chaos all feature the same issue that they have a lot of internal politics and combat between forces. Chaos and Order even have forces that directly hate each other and will never ally except under pressure and Order even has factions that hunt/predate on other Order factions (Idoneth).


Death, however, has only one outlier - Flesheaters. All the other Death forces are allied by force under Nagash. He also has been conquering most of the other undead worlds and since that means a VAST body of souls, Nagash has, in theory, a vast powerbase. Heck his creation, the Ossiarchs, are a display of just how many resources he has in that they can afford to pick the best bone and the best of souls and soul elements to forge legions.


Nagash has a vast powerbase united under him. He needs knocking down a peg before he overwhelms the realms. Even if you just take out Nagash in some form - confuse him, fragment him e tc...; you at least then allow his various factions under him to fight each other more openly; to challenge each other and fall to internal political pressure without the unifying power of Nagash to force them to stop.

i will be disappointed if Mannfred doesn't backstab anyone this time around and screw anyone over.

Sotahullu wrote:
i will be disappointed if Mannfred doesn't backstab anyone this time around and screw anyone over.

He is stuck in that loop....

Lets face it, neither Teclis, nor Nagash, are well know for their plans going particularly well. I suspect Nagash will be knocked down a peg, but the damage done to Shyish will further alienate Teclis from Sigmar and his pantheon.

Teclis was doing a just fine job of that already, given that he and his Teclian Vanguard have been burning continent sized runes into the realms to stabilize them after the effects of the Necroquake.

warl0rdb0b wrote:
Lets face it, neither Teclis, nor Nagash, are well know for their plans going particularly well. I suspect Nagash will be knocked down a peg, but the damage done to Shyish will further alienate Teclis from Sigmar and his pantheon.

Usually Nagash does pretty well until the Skaven turn up

If Teclis can break enough of the other gods of Death free from Nagash it could be interesting and shatter his hold on Shyish - even restore many of the Underworlds.

Sotahullu wrote:
i will be disappointed if Mannfred doesn't backstab anyone this time around and screw anyone over.

He's still trying to figure out how to stab himself in the back, I think.

Not sure why people think Blademasters will be River Temple. Just comparing the armour, they more closely resemble the Vanari Wardens, which would make them part of the Vanari Auralan militia.
Both the Stoneguard and Hurikan Windriders have the same armour patterning as the Alarith Mountain Spirit, in addition to the wild headgear.
Unless it’s written somewhere and I’ve missed it?

diepotato47 wrote:
Not sure why people think Blademasters will be River Temple.

Because the Aelementari Temples are Teclian and the River Temple are specifically called out as:
a) Being infantry
b) Using some form of bladed weapon to open multiple Orruk throats in rapid succession

As a bonus, they would actually be the last temple that actually would require a release of more than one item. There is no mention of a mage for them in the fluff snippet(Wind Temple, on the other hand had their spirit, mages, and riders all called out in theirs) and the actual wording used in "The Symmetry of War" only refers to river warriors while using the term "Alarith supplicants" to describe the Alarith and "those who have found an accord with the winds of Hysh" to describe the Wind Temple. There's a spirit for the River, but it sounds like it might be a weird one to potentially portray.

There's also a mention made that of all the temples?
River is the most common, Alarith is the second most common, Wind is fairly rare, and Zenith(Light) is basically akin to folktales within the Lumineth themselves. Zenith would be reserved in all likelihood for unique characters and a 'support character' type ala Lotann, the Soul Warden for Idoneth.

I do believe, in any regards, once we see the Tyrionic side of things get introduced that we will see the Loreseekers make an appearance. They're individuals who are supposed to be walking "in the light of the sun and the moon" and be skilled with blade and spell.

Just comparing the armour, they more closely resemble the Vanari Wardens, which would make them part of the Vanari Auralan militia.
Both the Stoneguard and Hurikan Windriders have the same armour patterning as the Alarith Mountain Spirit, in addition to the wild headgear.
Unless it’s written somewhere and I’ve missed it?

The armour patterning is slightly different for each, it's just the paintjobs are similar.

The Hurakan Windriders are closer to the Auralan Sentinels in terms of their wargear than anything else. Single pauldron, leather gloves rather than bracers. The helm even looks to be using the Sentinel helmet as a 'base' before adding on the decorative top bit.

It's entirely possible that speculating that it's River Temple is wrong. It just feels like a closer fit than an unnamed Vanari sword unit that sees no mention at all in the lore so far. We have mention of scouts, artillery specialists, and charioteers in addition to the three known Vanari(Sentinels, Wardens, and Dawnriders) types.

We've actually just seen our first Tyrionic element in the form of the "Lord-Regent". There's a mention of Lady-Regents, Marshals, and Masters-At-Arms...but no mention, yet, of anything that fits a swordmaster-y unit outside of the River Temple and the Loreseekers, who are mentioned as individuals rather than units.

 Mr Morden wrote:

Sotahullu wrote:
i will be disappointed if Mannfred doesn't backstab anyone this time around and screw anyone over.

He is stuck in that loop....

What loop?

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Sotahullu wrote:
i will be disappointed if Mannfred doesn't backstab anyone this time around and screw anyone over.

He is stuck in that loop....

What loop?

The sudden and inevitable betrayal loop, I think.
Whenever GW manages to remember Manfred exists, he inevitably smashes the betrayal button.

----
I am disappointed that the narrator in the Teclis video wasn't actually Australian

tneva82 wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I wonder if this is intended as LRL battletome 1.5 and Soulblight battletome, or is in addition to (kinda sucky if the factions would have to buy 2 books at the same time to have all their rules)

It's like br1. Additional rules. Not replacement. Books for book　god is gw's mantra. Aos is light compared to 40k.

It's just new rules in addition. Also strong hint tyrion and his forces won't come yet. Likely those come with new battle tome later(either　new combined lumineth or separate you can use together or as allies).

So the way it works in AoS is a bit different from 40k.

Take Morathi for example. It offers new options for a number of forces, but these replace existing options if used rather than adding to them (or cost points to take as in the case of the battalions). The 40k equivalent would be a campaign book adding rules for additional space marine chapters. Existing players lose nothing by not having the content. There were warscroll updates in Morathi too--which are also free to download, like all the AoS warscrolls. The only thing that the campaign book does add as an upgrade is mount traits for Idoneth, which are free rules making Idoneth (and only Idoneth) at a small disadvantage if they do not have access to the contents.

Lumineth will likely be in a similar boat. Because of how their allegiance abilities work new temples can be slotted in without trouble, but they would need their own allegiance abilities that would presumably come in the campaign book. Models released for existing temples (like the hero recently previewed) do not need this extra content and are ready to go using only the free warscroll.

Lumineth players will likely need this supplement to access their full army, BUT only if the player wants to use the new temple units. If they don't fancy kangaroos and want to keep playing with what they already have they will not lose anything by not having the campaign book. Though that is of course going only off precedent and what limited information we have so could easily change. The most likely addition would be artifacts & command traits for the new hero--that the vast majority of players will not use anyway since they are fixed by the totally-not-mandatory* choice of sub faction.

*You can technically forego choosing a sub faction, but this would be the equivalent of playing space marines without a chapter tactic.

Voss wrote:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Sotahullu wrote:
i will be disappointed if Mannfred doesn't backstab anyone this time around and screw anyone over.

He is stuck in that loop....

What loop?

The sudden and inevitable betrayal loop, I think.
Whenever GW manages to remember Manfred exists, he inevitably smashes the betrayal button.

----
I am disappointed that the narrator in the Teclis video wasn't actually Australian

Yeah Manfred and betrayal, goes hand in hand

I’m glad the whole Australian thing was just a quick video joke because of the response to the leaks.
And now we can go back to normals business (Though I’m sure they’ll note on it in today’s preview).

I guess these videos were made well in advance anyway though, so maybe it’ll all change..

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I wonder if this is intended as LRL battletome 1.5 and Soulblight battletome, or is in addition to (kinda sucky if the factions would have to buy 2 books at the same time to have all their rules)

It's like br1. Additional rules. Not replacement. Books for book　god is gw's mantra. Aos is light compared to 40k.

It's just new rules in addition. Also strong hint tyrion and his forces won't come yet. Likely those come with new battle tome later(either　new combined lumineth or separate you can use together or as allies).

So the way it works in AoS is a bit different from 40k.

Take Morathi for example. It offers new options for a number of forces, but these replace existing options if used rather than adding to them (or cost points to take as in the case of the battalions). The 40k equivalent would be a campaign book adding rules for additional space marine chapters. Existing players lose nothing by not having the content. There were warscroll updates in Morathi too--which are also free to download, like all the AoS warscrolls. The only thing that the campaign book does add as an upgrade is mount traits for Idoneth, which are free rules making Idoneth (and only Idoneth) at a small disadvantage if they do not have access to the contents.

Lumineth will likely be in a similar boat. Because of how their allegiance abilities work new temples can be slotted in without trouble, but they would need their own allegiance abilities that would presumably come in the campaign book. Models released for existing temples (like the hero recently previewed) do not need this extra content and are ready to go using only the free warscroll.

Lumineth players will likely need this supplement to access their full army, BUT only if the player wants to use the new temple units. If they don't fancy kangaroos and want to keep playing with what they already have they will not lose anything by not having the campaign book. Though that is of course going only off precedent and what limited information we have so could easily change. The most likely addition would be artifacts & command traits for the new hero--that the vast majority of players will not use anyway since they are fixed by the totally-not-mandatory* choice of sub faction.

*You can technically forego choosing a sub faction, but this would be the equivalent of playing space marines without a chapter tactic.

There likely won't be any new allegiance abilities for Lumineth here. There's no temple specific allegiance abilities that would replace existing ones when used as the Lumineth subfactions are great nations. 4 for Teclis, 4 for Tyrion and almost certain Tyrion isn't coming back.

What we are going to get is wind&maybe water temples, their unit rules that are same regardless of which subfaction you play(the ignore -1 rend for stoneguard and the push enemy forward being stone one) plus battalions. And these are pure additions that don't replace anything from lumineth book(except in terms of competiveness if something is obviously better than other stuff)

Pretty disappointing reveal for me, the good stuff was shown already and I am not really enthused by the avatar of the wind.
Grabbed some screen shots of the things shown only silhouette;


Thoughts? Mage of some sort, banner bearer, artillery piece, something, river warriors and some other hero?

Oh dear, did they go with the multiple-string silliness on the not-a-bolt-thrower-honest?

The top and bottom are fairly likely to be "Loreseekers". They're individuals as adept with blade as they are spell. They're also said to be both Tyrionic and Teclian.

The banner bearer is likely to be a Marshal or Master-At-Arms, mentioned in the same spot as the Lord+Lady Regents(which are the other character they previewed this week) and are Tyrionic characters.

The artillery bit is...interesting to say the least. The rest of it is...yeah, no idea.

The one above the blade masters looks like a model standing on top of another.

Like an elf version of the twins.

I dig the flying fox guy, but while I can appreciate he brought enough arrows to last an entire battle or 3, I find the large quiver kind of takes away from the model.

I'm really coming around to Lumineth models. Still dislike the round maces, cowhelms and mountain-cow models, but everything in this new release preview is fantastic! Love the roo-riders, love the ibek riding lord, love the fox archer, love the swordsmasters. Most of them still need headswaps, but that's easy. Hopefully the fox spirit will have a bare head, but probably unlikely

More than unlikely. The 'masks' are crafted by each Temple to allow the spirit to animate the constructs. The removal of the mask forces the spirit out of its construct.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
The one above the blade masters looks like a model standing on top of another.

Like an elf version of the twins.

Might be a wind mage as they were mentioned and I thinks there’s an image or a rumour engine that might link to that.

Windmage is something veeeeeeeeery different. It was in the "New Year, New Models" video alongside the Lord-Regent. There's a sceptre/mace streaming clouds out from it that it is standing upon.

I'm surprised they didn't make a unit of three wind riders, like an aelf version of Enlightened Tzaangors on discs. I mean, they could, but at this point, given everything else we've seen teased, it looks like only the mage will be riding wind (for now)

I really want to see both the huge bow person and the massive standard bearer. The latter seems too big to look good, but it's long overdue that we get some army standard bearers back in AOS (only the stormcast got models for them, right?)

A lot more Lumineth coming than I thought! Looks like this campaign book will be a 'second half' for Lumineth players to get access to their full army, as others have previously estimated. Sucks, but better than not having it I suppose. Definitely going to see the allegiance abilities for wind and river, maybe even zenith if they get any. Vanari allegiance abilities do lack artifacts & command traits, though a generic set for any type of Lumineth would fill that gap. Interested to see.

Not super surprised that DoK are getting a battletome given its age, but I don't think they really need it. It has aged very well and there are others both newer and older which need an update much more. Oh well.

With the soulblight warband being composed of nothing but vampires, I'm sort of hoping we get an entire vampire army. Maybe a bit smaller, but elite. Blood knights, zombie dragons, a small unit of winged vampires like what DoK have, Varghulf and Varghiest, etc. In the Old World, it probably wouldn't be feasible. But in AOS, we have an entire realm full of the undead, and seven more for them to have infilitrated. Give us a solely Vampire (and thrall) army!

I expect that is exactly what Soulblight will be. It is what they are now, after all.

Sidenote: You know the rules for all-vampire allegiance is in Legions of Nagash, right? I assume you mean a *full* allegiance rather than a mini one.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I expect that is exactly what Soulblight will be. It is what they are now, after all.

I don't think so. I think the stuff we're seeing in Cursed City is going to be the trappings of the Gravelords. Maybe I'm hyper-focusing on that name too much, but the Zombies are clearly GW's OCDonutSteal take on them, so it stands to reason they'd become the 'norm' going forward in the same way Ossiarchs probably will be for 'Deathrattle'. The one gravekeeper model looks to be digging up another of them (with the gnarled roots both the shadowed picture, the trailer and that model has) and Grave-Lords certainly sounds more like the Soulblight themselves are the commanding figures.

 AngryAngel80 wrote:
The second vampire is worlds better but still I don't know, I'm not really digging their art direction. It feels passionless and dull am I the only one feeling that way ?

I find this interesting.

For me, I ADORE this direction. It doesn't look like some sort of weird Anime-American Comic Book hybrid design like the rest of the AoS line looks, these models look like proper, old school fantasy. For me, seeing stuff like normal looking shields and maces, morning stars and rapiers just makes me happy as a clam. For so long I've had to sit here and wait with every new army release for something to catch my eye. This is the first.

I'm actually still stressed and waiting for the other shoe to drop. When they showed of Lumineth, it was amazing. Then came the stupid mountain cows and kangaroo Cavalry...big stupid hats and elves wielding Hammers??? And now there is a foxfolk archer with a quiver that just frankly looks dumb. It just broke everything for me. If this army is simple, down to earth and keeps things restrained at least a little, then I'm finally ready to buy into this game. If they show off Half-Wearbats that ride flying cave lobsters then...well, I'll lose interest fast.

Well considering the current zombie kit is... old I would not be suprised if it does finally get replaced with something much more approriate.

Although I don't think that Ossiarchs are going to replace Deathrattle (I could see them getting thrown into Gravelords) considering that fluff wise both are very different.

 Togusa wrote:

 AngryAngel80 wrote:
The second vampire is worlds better but still I don't know, I'm not really digging their art direction. It feels passionless and dull am I the only one feeling that way ?

I find this interesting.

For me, I ADORE this direction. It doesn't look like some sort of weird Anime-American Comic Book hybrid design like the rest of the AoS line looks, these models look like proper, old school fantasy. For me, seeing stuff like normal looking shields and maces, morning stars and rapiers just makes me happy as a clam. For so long I've had to sit here and wait with every new army release for something to catch my eye. This is the first.

I'm actually still stressed and waiting for the other shoe to drop. When they showed of Lumineth, it was amazing. Then came the stupid mountain cows and kangaroo Cavalry...big stupid hats and elves wielding Hammers??? And now there is a foxfolk archer with a quiver that just frankly looks dumb. It just broke everything for me. If this army is simple, down to earth and keeps things restrained at least a little, then I'm finally ready to buy into this game. If they show off Half-Wearbats that ride flying cave lobsters then...well, I'll lose interest fast.

I feel exactly the same. Both about relatability of these designs, and what was effectively a bait and switch on Lumenith. The first couple kits looked like they were reimagining the high elves just slightly. Turned out those were just the greek cosplay elfs, followed by the cow cosplayers, the avatar the last airbender cosplayers, the Crocodile Dundee cosplayers and now the fox cosplayers. Just a horrid grab-bag of incoherent nonsense replacing the army theme.

I am slightly worried that the zombies/thralls in Cursed City (and thus for soulblight) well be overdone with 'stuff' (coffins and tree-stumps nailed to their backs), so it really depends on the execution.

Right, we don't want a mishmash of themes what with High Elves having been such a coherent concept of:
-Dragon motif Elves(Caledor)
-Monastic Elves(Swordmasters of Hoeth)
-Silent guardian Elves(Phoenix Guard)
-Angry not-Dark Elves(Shadow Warriors)
-Chariot Elves(Tiranoc)
-Horse archer Elves(Ellyrion)
-Lion Elves
-Sea Elves(Lothern)
-Amazonian Elves(Everqueen)
-"Generic" Elves(Silver Helms, Archers, and Spearmen)


It strikes me as strange that people do not seem to remember that out of everything in the High Elves book even preceding the introduction of the Lion Chariots, Loremasters, Phoenix Mounts and Skycutters...High Elves were far from just knights and stuff. We had battlemages, we had weird totemic warriors, we had oathsworn guardians and more.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Right, we don't want a mishmash of themes what with High Elves having been such a coherent concept of:
-Dragon motif Elves(Caledor)
-Monastic Elves(Swordmasters of Hoeth)
-Silent guardian Elves(Phoenix Guard)
-Angry not-Dark Elves(Shadow Warriors)
-Chariot Elves(Tiranoc)
-Horse archer Elves(Ellyrion)
-Lion Elves
-Sea Elves(Lothern)
-Amazonian Elves(Everqueen)
-"Generic" Elves(Silver Helms, Archers, and Spearmen)


It strikes me as strange that people do not seem to remember that out of everything in the High Elves book even preceding the introduction of the Lion Chariots, Loremasters, Phoenix Mounts and Skycutters...High Elves were far from just knights and stuff. We had battlemages, we had weird totemic warriors, we had oathsworn guardians and more.

This is what I don't get about AOS. When the armies were broken up, certain models got their own armies. Stonehorn, yhetees, sabretusks, etc became the Beastclaw raiders. Savage orcs and all their ilk became the Bonespittaz. But they didn't give Chrace, Lothern, or any high elves distinct factions, at least not ones that stuck around longer than a year or two.

Chrace: White lions with axes, Korhil, and lion chariot
Lothern: Seaguard, skycutter chariot with options for a BSB on foot or lord on foot
Phoenix guard: Phoenix guard, Phoenixes, Calydrn(?).

The elves had a lot of potential to stick around for awhile and allow people to create armies based around which aspects of high elves they liked the best. I love the idea of having an army of savage orcs, but I'd also have loved a Lothern or Chrace themed army for AOS

Because they weren't really distinct factions. They had different weapons and a few had signature pieces (like lion cloaks or more Phoenix helms or more dragon helms) but they still had the overall unifying aesthetic of the high elves.

That's a huge difference.

Voss wrote:
Because they weren't really distinct factions. They had different weapons and a few had signature pieces (like lion cloaks or more Phoenix helms or more dragon helms) but they still had the overall unifying aesthetic of the high elves.

That's a huge difference.

True, but dark elves stuck around, with their units being divided up (until recently).

I dunno. Maybe I'm just mad I didn't get to pick up a few of the units before they were wiped out (especially the newer plastic kits)

And thank you for making my point for me, Voss.

The Aelementari Temples have "signature pieces". The signature though is that they're Teclian Nation pieces. The Teclian school of thought tends to have artisans, so is it really a shocker that their wargear(which incidentally is supposed to actually be crafted by the temples themselves not mass produced) would look different than the standing armies of the Vanari, who are both Teclian and Tyrionic?

And really, the constant "but whut about horses!!!" and whatnot is tiresome at this point. Read the lore. The army book was packed full of stuff. The Dawn Riders use horses as they can train horses and the horses are from the central continent of Hysh, where they're bred by not just the Elves there but also the humans who dwell there too. The Treerunners that the new Windchargers are on? Dollars to donuts it's going to be fluffed as similar to the Gryph-Chargers for Stormcast or the Cold Ones of Dark Elves or Dragons or whatever--a mount choosing its rider.

Also as a final note, we've seen one Tyrionic item at this point. The Lord-Regent. We still have no idea where that aesthetic might lead to. We don't know what kind of crazy warbeasts might show up there either.

Voss wrote:
Because they weren't really distinct factions. They had different weapons and a few had signature pieces (like lion cloaks or more Phoenix helms or more dragon helms) but they still had the overall unifying aesthetic of the high elves.

That's a huge difference.

Ork with armour. Orc without armour. How is that distinct with different elves? Orc is an orc

 Kanluwen wrote:
And thank you for making my point for me, Voss.

The Aelementari Temples have "signature pieces". The signature though is that they're Teclian Nation pieces. The Teclian school of thought tends to have artisans, so is it really a shocker that their wargear(which incidentally is supposed to actually be crafted by the temples themselves not mass produced) would look different than the standing armies of the Vanari, who are both Teclian and Tyrionic?

And really, the constant "but whut about horses!!!" and whatnot is tiresome at this point. Read the lore. The army book was packed full of stuff. The Dawn Riders use horses as they can train horses and the horses are from the central continent of Hysh, where they're bred by not just the Elves there but also the humans who dwell there too. The Treerunners that the new Windchargers are on? Dollars to donuts it's going to be fluffed as similar to the Gryph-Chargers for Stormcast or the Cold Ones of Dark Elves or Dragons or whatever--a mount choosing its rider.

Also as a final note, we've seen one Tyrionic item at this point. The Lord-Regent. We still have no idea where that aesthetic might lead to. We don't know what kind of crazy warbeasts might show up there either.

Unsurprisingly, you've lost me.
I didn't make your point. The high elves had a distinct theme, with add ons that didn't disrupt the unifying aesthetic of the army.
The cosplay elves have themes scattered across half-a-dozen cultures and several animated shows. Unlike the high elves, they look like a mish-mash of 7-8 different armies, not a unified one. And _most_ of them look like gag armies, not something to take seriously. Apart from the first couple kits, nothing looks 'elf' or even 'warhammer.'

No idea what your horse thing is even about.

---
@tneva82-
I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or not. Savage orcs are very distinct from the AoS iron..mongerers? They look different and play differently. Same as Wood elves had a distinct look from high elves (but not, unfortunately, distinct units). Lumenith are just... random things without rhyme or reason. They look like they got sculpted and just... shoved out the door without thought. 'Why not one army?'

 Arbitrator wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I expect that is exactly what Soulblight will be. It is what they are now, after all.

I don't think so. I think the stuff we're seeing in Cursed City is going to be the trappings of the Gravelords. Maybe I'm hyper-focusing on that name too much, but the Zombies are clearly GW's OCDonutSteal take on them, so it stands to reason they'd become the 'norm' going forward in the same way Ossiarchs probably will be for 'Deathrattle'. The one gravekeeper model looks to be digging up another of them (with the gnarled roots both the shadowed picture, the trailer and that model has) and Grave-Lords certainly sounds more like the Soulblight themselves are the commanding figures.

Hm, good point. Though if that does end up being the case it will still be possible to run a straight vampire army, almost certainly with more effectiveness than right now.

The problem Orks had in AoS was when they were fragmented it wasn't just that they shared similar body shapes, it was that each force was basically using the same tricks. Orks with choppas; orks in armour with choppas; orks on boars; orks on boars etc...

They were basically like Primaris and Space Marines are now in piggy backing the very same roster construction; only orks did it 3 times over.

It was a mish-mash and honestly I'd welcome orks without and orks with armour as separate concepts; so long as they had more differences than just that within their system. If one had shaman and the other had blood warlocks or such etc...

That said Destruction Orruks need a lot of attention from GW. Ogors got some and got rebuilt into their old army; Gloomspite got a lot of attention evne if they lost the wolfside of the army. Orruks were a rescue battletome like Cities of Sigmar.

Orruks were a rescue battletome like Cities of Sigmar.

Definitely. AoS still has a lot of 'rescues'

And the new stuff tends to be really hit or miss.
While I don't personally like Ossiarchs or fish elves, at least they look like there was a unifying vision behind them.

I think some of the "miss" is that armies like Ossiarchs are very small in model range. There aren't many actual "choices" within them and many are just "spam this model and this model" to get to a full army. It's nothing like the variety of choices for say Skaven, Stormcast etc...

That said I think its more just that those armies need time in the wild to build up a fanbase and also to have room for more releases. Just look how many were all "I don't like Lumineth" and are now starting to look at them with fresh eyes with the recent previews that have been put on show. A big second wave that allows more design elements to rise to the fore makes a huge difference.

I'm betting that the same will happen to Slaanesh as well this year with the big mortals update.



Heck 40K side I wasn't all that interested in Genestealer cults because they were basically a few slap-dash mining vehicles repurposed for war alongside an Imperial Guard army with tanks and such. When the second wave hit and they got more troops, more vehicles and the IG element was toned down, suddenly they became a much more unified and complete and diverse army.


I'm sure we'll see armies like Ossiarchs, Idoneth and such grow in popularity as GW gets time to make additions to their armies.

Well if going by model count Ossiarchs had a decent chunk of units to toy around compared to Lumineth. But again I could see somethings they would want (like some form of shooting units).

And now I am wondering if (big if) I would go for Lumineth, would I spend time on converting the upcoming Treerunner on horses if I ever go for all mounted force.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Right, we don't want a mishmash of themes what with High Elves having been such a coherent concept of:
-Dragon motif Elves(Caledor)
-Monastic Elves(Swordmasters of Hoeth)
-Silent guardian Elves(Phoenix Guard)
-Angry not-Dark Elves(Shadow Warriors)
-Chariot Elves(Tiranoc)
-Horse archer Elves(Ellyrion)
-Lion Elves
-Sea Elves(Lothern)
-Amazonian Elves(Everqueen)
-"Generic" Elves(Silver Helms, Archers, and Spearmen)


It strikes me as strange that people do not seem to remember that out of everything in the High Elves book even preceding the introduction of the Lion Chariots, Loremasters, Phoenix Mounts and Skycutters...High Elves were far from just knights and stuff. We had battlemages, we had weird totemic warriors, we had oathsworn guardians and more.

Cool. They (a lot of AOS models/Factions) still look like someone was reading the latest issue of Captain Marvel, while the newest episode of Naruto was on in the background as they casually browsed the Avatar subtreddit. I guess I would say I'm looking for something closer to Tolkien than Phantasy Star Online.

If you haven't noticed by now that AoS is *not* "closer to Tolkien" in design, then uh...I don't know what to say. But it's not, and complaining that it's not when it's never been seems kind of counterproductive?

Voss wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
And thank you for making my point for me, Voss.

The Aelementari Temples have "signature pieces". The signature though is that they're Teclian Nation pieces. The Teclian school of thought tends to have artisans, so is it really a shocker that their wargear(which incidentally is supposed to actually be crafted by the temples themselves not mass produced) would look different than the standing armies of the Vanari, who are both Teclian and Tyrionic?

And really, the constant "but whut about horses!!!" and whatnot is tiresome at this point. Read the lore. The army book was packed full of stuff. The Dawn Riders use horses as they can train horses and the horses are from the central continent of Hysh, where they're bred by not just the Elves there but also the humans who dwell there too. The Treerunners that the new Windchargers are on? Dollars to donuts it's going to be fluffed as similar to the Gryph-Chargers for Stormcast or the Cold Ones of Dark Elves or Dragons or whatever--a mount choosing its rider.

Also as a final note, we've seen one Tyrionic item at this point. The Lord-Regent. We still have no idea where that aesthetic might lead to. We don't know what kind of crazy warbeasts might show up there either.

Unsurprisingly, you've lost me.
I didn't make your point. The high elves had a distinct theme, with add ons that didn't disrupt the unifying aesthetic of the army.
The cosplay elves have themes scattered across half-a-dozen cultures and several animated shows. Unlike the high elves, they look like a mish-mash of 7-8 different armies, not a unified one. And _most_ of them look like gag armies, not something to take seriously. Apart from the first couple kits, nothing looks 'elf' or even 'warhammer.'

No idea what your horse thing is even about.

---
@tneva82-
I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or not. Savage orcs are very distinct from the AoS iron..mongerers? They look different and play differently. Same as Wood elves had a distinct look from high elves (but not, unfortunately, distinct units). Lumenith are just... random things without rhyme or reason. They look like they got sculpted and just... shoved out the door without thought. 'Why not one army?'

I think it's worse than that.

The Lumineth just feel like a bunch of people in a room all did their own thing and then management said "sounds good, when can we start shipping?" The Spearmen and Bowmen look incredible and the Horse Calvary really look great. But then there is a piece of animated armor, mountain cows with mario style mallets (would you like a big one, or two medium ones?) A kitsune Naruto archer, a fairly normal looking battlemage on a mount, a weird Zen monk on an upside down floating rock, outback kangaroo riders with more bows, elves in Kimonos with more large Mario mallets.

It just doesn't make me think of elves. It make literally makes me think of bad fanfiction some 16 year old dreamed up while reading LoTR and watching Anime.

So far, the Vampires are killing it and if they're going to get a unified army, then I'm finally ready to play this game. If they end up with Zombies that carry huge coffins with ballistae in them and half-wearbat cosplayers using lightsabers, count me out.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cronch wrote:
If you haven't noticed by now that AoS is *not* "closer to Tolkien" in design, then uh...I don't know what to say. But it's not, and complaining that it's not when it's never been seems kind of counterproductive?

I understand that it's not. I'm saying that's what I want it to be.

Right now, the Vamps are leaning in that direction, which for me personally as a singular person, is a good thing and might entice me to part with some cash.

If you don't like it, just say you don't like it and then stop posting about it. Because frankly? You crapping all over it constantly just makes you look petty.

 Kanluwen wrote:
If you don't like it, just say you don't like it and then stop posting about it. Because frankly? You crapping all over it constantly just makes you look petty.

If you don't agree with my opinion, just say so and stop posting about it. Because frankly? You crapping all over it just makes you look petty.

Yeah first lumineth units were great. But each new ones are getting worse and worse. Now, it's just a total mess of a faction

I don’t have an issue with a few different themes within an elf army, that’s always been the way for elves in Warhammer. To me it’s staying true to how they were. They’re just using creatures that are common to the Sigmar setting instead of the old world, which seems fine to me. Sigmar has always been about unique, uncommon weirdness.

I just want them to show off the silhouetted models sooner rather than later plez!

Never mind. I'll just throw 'em on ignore.

Anyways:
New Lumineth are fantastic. Can't wait for them. I'm glad we're actually getting to see more fauna from the Mortal Realms.

 streetsamurai wrote:
Yeah first lumineth units were great. But each new ones are getting worse and worse. Now, it's just a total mess of a faction

What a weird opinion. They fit into their temple descriptions perfectly.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Never mind. I'll just throw 'em on ignore.

Anyways:
New Lumineth are fantastic. Can't wait for them. I'm glad we're actually getting to see more fauna from the Mortal Realms.

The way Lumineth are going they are going to wind up with more fauna than the old woodelves ever had. Though to be fair come the End Times the High Elves also achieved that distinction as well in general.
I still hold out a modest hope that one day GW will do a full fauna nature style army for fantasy. Kurnothi would look to be it in theme, but one warband does not an army make and Underworld being what it is I'm of the mind that its both a vector for releasing hints of future releases and a means for creatives to flex their creative talents and to flesh out the Mortal Realms a little with niche models that, whilst representative of peoples of the Realms, are ideas that might or will make it into full army status.

As long as people remember their their own subjective opinion does not make a model line good or bad, I find few posters have a problem with it even if they disagree. What gets on people's nerves is when someone blurs the line and comes across as suggesting that models are simply bad when really they just personally do not like them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Overread wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Never mind. I'll just throw 'em on ignore.

Anyways:
New Lumineth are fantastic. Can't wait for them. I'm glad we're actually getting to see more fauna from the Mortal Realms.

The way Lumineth are going they are going to wind up with more fauna than the old woodelves ever had. Though to be fair come the End Times the High Elves also achieved that distinction as well in general.

I am really confused by this comment. I don't recall wood elves ever being billed as an 'animal' army but rather elves + treeple. Further, both high and dark elves always had as much or more fauna than wood elves even going back to the earlier editions. Finally, Helves didn't get any model releases during the end times. Am I missing something?

3rd edition was very much an animal heavy WE army.
Shapechangers, beastmasters (bears, boars, warhounds, giant cats) and falconers shared a single page with treemen. Somehow over time, the latter became the focus on the army, and the other three were just excised entirely, same with their chariots.

----

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
Yeah first lumineth units were great. But each new ones are getting worse and worse. Now, it's just a total mess of a faction

What a weird opinion. They fit into their temple descriptions perfectly.

Except we know that GW does models first, rules second and fluff comes trailing along behind. Of course they fit their temple descriptions, the models are approved at that point, so they're just writing descriptions of what they're definitely going to be selling. But that doesn't at all address the fact that they're a thematic mishmash as an army, which is a trait they don't share with other new AoS armies. Like or hate boneguys, fishguys or morathi's hybrid girls, they've got a clear focus and visual style that Lumenith lack. 'The fluff says thats ok' doesn't really affect people's reactions to the look of the army.

 Overread wrote:
\
The way Lumineth are going they are going to wind up with more fauna than the old woodelves ever had. Though to be fair come the End Times the High Elves also achieved that distinction as well in general.

Wood Elves had a decent spread of critters as mounts, they just never really had the model support. At least that was my experience.

I still hold out a modest hope that one day GW will do a full fauna nature style army for fantasy. Kurnothi would look to be it in theme, but one warband does not an army make and Underworld being what it is I'm of the mind that its both a vector for releasing hints of future releases and a means for creatives to flex their creative talents and to flesh out the Mortal Realms a little with niche models that, whilst representative of peoples of the Realms, are ideas that might or will make it into full army status.

I don't know what to expect from Kurnothi to be honest. I just want to see Orion get a chance to hunt again.

Voss wrote:

But that doesn't at all address the fact that they're a thematic mishmash as an army, which is a trait they don't share with other new AoS armies. Like or hate boneguys, fishguys or morathi's hybrid girls, they've got a clear focus and visual style that Lumenith lack. 'The fluff says thats ok' doesn't really affect people's reactions to the look of the army.

Really? I thought the Lumineth were fairly coherant as a fighting force and have a strong uniting theme: mountains. You have a selection of fantasy mountain animals which are basically chimerical construct of various mountainous/valley animals put together and the aelves who venerate them. I believe that what makes people be taken aback by the Lumineth is the fact that all other armies in the AoS range so far are fairly basic and common fantasy trope, this one is a bit more original as mountains are more of a dwarf thing and tryin to make a mix of elven designed and mountains isn't something most people are used too. It doesn't fix in a pre-prepared box of expectations. The army is still very cohesive, but people are not used to this arrangement.

epronovost wrote:

Voss wrote:

But that doesn't at all address the fact that they're a thematic mishmash as an army, which is a trait they don't share with other new AoS armies. Like or hate boneguys, fishguys or morathi's hybrid girls, they've got a clear focus and visual style that Lumenith lack. 'The fluff says thats ok' doesn't really affect people's reactions to the look of the army.

Really? I thought the Lumineth were fairly coherant as a fighting force and have a strong uniting theme: mountains. You have a selection of fantasy mountain animals which are basically chimerical construct of various mountainous/valley animals put together and the aelves who venerate them. I believe that what makes people be taken aback by the Lumineth is the fact that all other armies in the AoS range so far are fairly basic and common fantasy trope, this one is a bit more original as mountains are more of a dwarf thing and tryin to make a mix of elven designed and mountains isn't something most people are used too. It doesn't fix in a pre-prepared box of expectations. The army is still very cohesive, but people are not used to this arrangement.

Mountains are just one of their themes, that's the problem. They've also got themeless normal elves, water elves, wind elves (and wind fox spirit), etc, basically full Avatar the Last Airbender, with weapons and armor from a half-dozen historical Earth nationalities.
There isn't any originality about it. Mountain + elf subverts expectations a little, but its the standard fantasy elements + historical nations + elves = a weird pile of tropey stuff, that seems to completely disregard that warhammer and AoS deal with elemental themes in a completely different way (Winds of Magic/Realms of Magic). Lumenith will presumably at some point have fire elves that still from the Light Realm rather than the Fire Realm, because reasons.

Other than the over-large helms, I actually really like the Lumineth as a faction aesthetic. They give me a very fantasy asian look, which to me is reminiscent of settings like the old Magic: The Gathering Kamigawa setting, with various elemental Kami and Kitsune blademasters, lots of fantastical mountain and forest temples, etc.

At the same time I miss the old setting's Elves, I also like the refreshing and new art direction to take an Elven race. I have seen dozens of similar Elves from more companies than I can remember over the 25 years I have been gaming. Definitely better than just making the Dwarf slayer cult into an entire army of naked Dwarves with slightly different wargear. Just make the helms about a foot shorter, so they don't look like every Aelven doorway has to be designed to be at least 8 feet tall.

Glad to see the Blood Dragon aesthetic carried into the Mortal Realms, though. That was always my favorite GW vampire "look".

It looks like the Slaanesh Hedonites Batlletome is
"No longer avalaible Online" already.

The new one should be out soon since it was annouced as
a February release if memory serves.

Didn't see this posted here, so apologies if it was:



This release seems like it's going to be even larger than I expected for the Lumineth.

Voss wrote:
Mountains are just one of their themes, that's the problem. They've also got themeless normal elves, water elves, wind elves (and wind fox spirit), etc, basically full Avatar the Last Airbender, with weapons and armor from a half-dozen historical Earth nationalities.
There isn't any originality about it. Mountain + elf subverts expectations a little, but its the standard fantasy elements + historical nations + elves = a weird pile of tropey stuff, that seems to completely disregard that warhammer and AoS deal with elemental themes in a completely different way (Winds of Magic/Realms of Magic). Lumenith will presumably at some point have fire elves that still from the Light Realm rather than the Fire Realm, because reasons.

Actually the glue to all of this is mountains. Mountains are the source of rivers and the place closest to the sky and wind currents as well as light since they peek above the cloud. That's why all the temples are related to mountain and belong with each other and it's also why "mountains" was the first of the introduced Lumineth models. It also shows that Hysh might not actually be a mono-ecological world and that it's people, while all similar have cultural differences.

PS; fire elves in the Lumineth would make sense since there is some link between light and fire since light creates heat. The opposite is also true. Some places on Hysh probably look like some places on Aqshy or, for that matter, Azyr.

I personally find Lumineth to well balance the opposing elements of having a consistent aesthetic while also making units visually distinct. The shapes and patterns used in armor plates are very consistent, very much reflecting them as being crafted by the same culture. There are also little details on items like straps, handles, gems, that show broad consistency across the models. Having those stay consistent onto the non-aelf models/portions of model creates a visual tie-in while still allowing that thing to be its own thing.

I much prefer this level to something like Fyreslayers, which have extremely consistent themes across units; too much so for me. Aside from magmadroths all the units and heroes of Fyreslayers simply blend together and I have to focus for a second to distinguish units from one another.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sasori wrote:
This release seems like it's going to be even larger than I expected for the Lumineth.

Definitely where I am at. I expected one temple + vanari hero, and it seems pretty clear now there will be at least two other temples if not all three.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I personally find Lumineth to well balance the opposing elements of having a consistent aesthetic while also making units visually distinct. The shapes and patterns used in armor plates are very consistent, very much reflecting them as being crafted by the same culture. There are also little details on items like straps, handles, gems, that show broad consistency across the models. Having those stay consistent onto the non-aelf models/portions of model creates a visual tie-in while still allowing that thing to be its own thing.

I much prefer this level to something like Fyreslayers, which have extremely consistent themes across units; too much so for me. Aside from magmadroths all the units and heroes of Fyreslayers simply blend together and I have to focus for a second to distinguish units from one another.

I completely agree with you and I think one of the reason I dislike Fyreslayers is the fact that all their units look basically so similar they could very well be the same. They need a model range upgrade too. What they have is nice, but they could use some variety like a chariot or some cavalry for example.

If we started getting hints for something like that I'd be really fired up!

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
If we started getting hints for something like that I'd be really fired up!

Don’t you mean Fyred up?

But really though, I get the impression that the Fyreslayers were a pet project of the last CEO and are kinda in limbo now because their champion left the company.

 Togusa wrote:


Cool. They (a lot of AOS models/Factions) still look like someone was reading the latest issue of Captain Marvel, while the newest episode of Naruto was on in the background as they casually browsed the Avatar subtreddit. I guess I would say I'm looking for something closer to Tolkien than Phantasy Star Online.

Aos was designed so it's not tolkien. So look for other games.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I personally find Lumineth to well balance the opposing elements of having a consistent aesthetic while also making units visually distinct. The shapes and patterns used in armor plates are very consistent, very much reflecting them as being crafted by the same culture. There are also little details on items like straps, handles, gems, that show broad consistency across the models. Having those stay consistent onto the non-aelf models/portions of model creates a visual tie-in while still allowing that thing to be its own thing.

I much prefer this level to something like Fyreslayers, which have extremely consistent themes across units; too much so for me. Aside from magmadroths all the units and heroes of Fyreslayers simply blend together and I have to focus for a second to distinguish units from one another.

I agree. All the Lumineth models look like Lumineth models, some just have animals on their hats.

After the initial shock of the kangaroo archers looks, I actually think I like the wind chamber elves more than the mountain milk elves. The helmets are less top-heavy since the horns have been moved to the front plate of the hat which is what I hated about the alarith hammerboys.

 Sasori wrote:
Didn't see this posted here, so apologies if it was:



This release seems like it's going to be even larger than I expected for the Lumineth.

Anyone else feel this model could be related to Zenith? As its described as the heavens/sky, it could represent the duality of the sun/moon in some way.

NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

New Lumineth are fantastic. Can't wait for them. I'm glad we're actually getting to see more fauna from the Mortal Realms.

The way Lumineth are going they are going to wind up with more fauna than the old woodelves ever had. Though to be fair come the End Times the High Elves also achieved that distinction as well in general.

I am really confused by this comment. I don't recall wood elves ever being billed as an 'animal' army but rather elves + treeple. Further, both high and dark elves always had as much or more fauna than wood elves even going back to the earlier editions. Finally, Helves didn't get any model releases during the end times. Am I missing something?

Wood elves always had spirit creatures and creatures of the forest, however by the time we hit end times high elves had eagle and lion chariots; phoneix; dragons etc... Whilst the WE hadn't (to my recollection) had any real updates in that regard. I think the only one was the new deer riders, which were and still are awesome models, otherwise their eagles were still in metal.

Voss wrote:3rd edition was very much an animal heavy WE army.
Shapechangers, beastmasters (bears, boars, warhounds, giant cats) and falconers shared a single page with treemen. Somehow over time, the latter became the focus on the army, and the other three were just excised entirely, same with their chariots.

Aye, I game to warhammer late just after they'd started to really lose their woodland beasts and gain the treemen more and more. I do recall the books having a few more options, especially for lord mounts. So they had the lore references all there and the potential theme, but just no model support and, over time, the tree element got stronger. I don't think it was a bad design choice as the new treelord is an amazing model kit; its just sad that they lost the animal side of the faction and the "beasts of the forest" angle that they once held.

warl0rdb0b wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
Didn't see this posted here, so apologies if it was:



This release seems like it's going to be even larger than I expected for the Lumineth.

Anyone else feel this model could be related to Zenith? As its described as the heavens/sky, it could represent the duality of the sun/moon in some way.

Is that elf's tactical rock another elf?

Sure looks like that

That’s how metal Lumineth are.

epronovost wrote:

Voss wrote:
Mountains are just one of their themes, that's the problem. They've also got themeless normal elves, water elves, wind elves (and wind fox spirit), etc, basically full Avatar the Last Airbender, with weapons and armor from a half-dozen historical Earth nationalities.
There isn't any originality about it. Mountain + elf subverts expectations a little, but its the standard fantasy elements + historical nations + elves = a weird pile of tropey stuff, that seems to completely disregard that warhammer and AoS deal with elemental themes in a completely different way (Winds of Magic/Realms of Magic). Lumenith will presumably at some point have fire elves that still from the Light Realm rather than the Fire Realm, because reasons.

Actually the glue to all of this is mountains. Mountains are the source of rivers and the place closest to the sky and wind currents as well as light since they peek above the cloud. That's why all the temples are related to mountain and belong with each other and it's also why "mountains" was the first of the introduced Lumineth models. It also shows that Hysh might not actually be a mono-ecological world and that it's people, while all similar have cultural differences.

PS; fire elves in the Lumineth would make sense since there is some link between light and fire since light creates heat. The opposite is also true. Some places on Hysh probably look like some places on Aqshy or, for that matter, Azyr.

To me this feels like a cohesive theme - mountains, winds and rivers/streams/creeks, and what if the fire ones are lava based - volcanoes are mountains, right? Lumineth feels very much as one faction - I don't see these big differences.

The old high elf range, however, is based on a variety of old concepts, some of which are based on locations in the world that was like Lothern and Chrace, right? So they don't really fit in anywhere in an AOS setting to be honest. Eventually they will probably be phased out I guess.

There's no fire temple as of right now.

We have, in order of most common to least common:
River Temple
Stone Temple
Wind Temple
Zenith

Zenith is not even supposed to have a temple. It's basically a myth even to the Lumineth. They can transform themselves into beings of pure light and radiate energy out.

Come on, chaps, we've been over this - standing every character model on a scenic rock doesn't count as a "mountain theme".

Winter faq's out. Just minor thingies(no bouncing mw with teclis and friendly endless spells...duh) and no point updates

Minor save that Warcry Warbands now get to take Chaos Marks in a Slaves to Darkness army - which means they now get the full roster of in-army synergies, support auras and abilities!

This puts them right up next too and above Marauders and is something that really should have been in the book from day 1. It makes them FAR more versatile and viable in the army!

tneva82 wrote:
Winter faq's out. Just minor thingies(no bouncing mw with teclis and friendly endless spells...duh) and no point updates

The errata for armies are still being updated, I'm fairly certain there are going to be poitns adjustments in each army errata.

 Sasori wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Winter faq's out. Just minor thingies(no bouncing mw with teclis and friendly endless spells...duh) and no point updates

The errata for armies are still being updated, I'm fairly certain there are going to be poitns adjustments in each army errata.

Seeing GW flat out said no updates to points...no.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/01/25/has-your-army-changed-in-the-warhammer-age-of-sigmar-january-faq/

Point changes not coming due to pandemic causing a lack of games.

tneva82 wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Winter faq's out. Just minor thingies(no bouncing mw with teclis and friendly endless spells...duh) and no point updates

The errata for armies are still being updated, I'm fairly certain there are going to be poitns adjustments in each army errata.

Seeing GW flat out said no updates to points...no.

Oh, I missed that.

Well, that's good I suppose.

It's a complete joke. They had the data to do a bunch of "Metawatch" articles hyping the competitive side of the game, but not enough data to know that Barak Zilfin WLV Spell-in-a-Bottle needs a change? Also, they call it a "comprehensive set of FAQs," but they only actually updated about 8 of them.

Also, despite claiming they didn't change points, they actually did change the Nighthaunt points...back to what they were before GHB2020, because whoever was doing that FAQ wasn't paying attention and accidentally included the points again.

This is a multi-billion dollar company. Sigh.

They didn't do the metawatch articles. Those were written by people from outside of the company.

They just published them.

That's simply not true.

Who do you think Steve Wren, "the Warhammer Worlds Event Manager," is, if not a GW employee?

They are interviews with players, but the interviews are done by GW, and the graphics, pictures, etc are all GW-branded as well.

They've already noted on FB that the Nighthaunt changes are a mistake.

Also I wasn't aware they were multi-billion - million yes but billion?

yukishiro1 wrote:
That's simply not true.

Who do you think Steve Wren, "the Warhammer Worlds Event Manager," is, if not a GW employee?

They are interviews with players, but the interviews are done by GW, and the graphics, pictures, etc are all GW-branded as well.

And who do you think is doing the talking in the interview?

The statements are from players, not GW. The graphics and pictures being from GW is a big whoopity frigging doo.
Additionally, there are articles that are strictly player generated. Vincent and Tom from Warhammer Weekly did one at the start of the year.

They "noted on FB that the Nighthaunt changes are a mistake" because someone pointed it out to them within minutes of posting, because it's a super obvious mistake that anyone actually paying attention would notice. It's pretty embarrassing that their "comprehensive set of FAQs" has obvious errors in it that people spot within 5 minutes of them being posted.

Google is your friend re: GW's value. Last time I checked they were worth in the region of 3.6 billion. It's probably more now.

https://markets.ft.com/data/equities/tearsheet/summary?s=GAW:LSE

4.75 billion now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
That's simply not true.

Who do you think Steve Wren, "the Warhammer Worlds Event Manager," is, if not a GW employee?

They are interviews with players, but the interviews are done by GW, and the graphics, pictures, etc are all GW-branded as well.

And who do you think is doing the talking in the interview?

The statements are from players, not GW. The graphics and pictures being from GW is a big whoopity frigging doo.

Two people are doing the talking. One of them is a GW employee, and he's the one controlling the discussion because he's the one doing the interview. You know, when they say "Steve:" that means that's a GW employee talking, right? It's a GW article posted on GW's site done by GW employees. The interview has been edited by GW for use on its own website (I guarantee you they didn't just print word-for-word everything the player said with no editorial changes; you know this is the case because they put the explanatory *s in like they always do). Saying it's not a GW article because the interviewee is a player is a joke. I literally cannot believe you are actually seriously making this argument.

Anything posted on a GW site is a GW article by definition, but it's even stranger to argue an article where the interviewer is a GW employee is not a GW article.

yukishiro1 wrote:
They "noted on FB that the Nighthaunt changes are a mistake" because someone pointed it out to them within minutes of posting, because it's a super obvious mistake that anyone actually paying attention would notice. It's pretty embarrassing that their "comprehensive set of FAQs" has obvious errors in it that people spot within 5 minutes of them being posted.

Google is your friend re: GW's value. Last time I checked they were worth in the region of 3.6 billion. It's probably more now.

https://markets.ft.com/data/equities/tearsheet/summary?s=GAW:LSE

4.75 billion now.

I agree that given their current financial resources, they probably could spend more on editing resources to ensure what they publish meets an acceptable level of accuracy and quality (neither to be confused with “balance”), but your reference to their market cap and the relationship it has to the amount of money they have to spend a bit misleading as you seem to be confusing market cap, i.e. what all issued GW stock is worth, with what GW's actual revenue is and what they can spend.

You should probably refer to their earnings report for a better idea of how much money GW has and the size of the company, e.g. per their half-yearly report issued 12 Jan 2021 they earned £186.8m (~255.3m USD) in last six months and have £96.5m in cash and cash equivalents which interestingly is almost double what they had last year and probably reflects them stock piling cash due to COVID and BREXIT uncertainty and their apparent aversion to long term debt.

Consequently, it is more accurate to describe GW as a multi-million dollar company, not a multi-billion dollar company since they don’t earn or spend billions (yet). Again, no excuse for the shoddy QC on FAQ’s or other published works.

Why would they spend money on it? People keep paying hand over foot for their shoddy ruleset.

The Facebook response could've been "Lmao who cares you'll buy this stuff anyway. Go and buy some stuff off our webstore and get over it lol" and nothing would change.

 Lord of Deeds wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
They "noted on FB that the Nighthaunt changes are a mistake" because someone pointed it out to them within minutes of posting, because it's a super obvious mistake that anyone actually paying attention would notice. It's pretty embarrassing that their "comprehensive set of FAQs" has obvious errors in it that people spot within 5 minutes of them being posted.

Google is your friend re: GW's value. Last time I checked they were worth in the region of 3.6 billion. It's probably more now.

https://markets.ft.com/data/equities/tearsheet/summary?s=GAW:LSE

4.75 billion now.

I agree that given their current financial resources, they probably could spend more on editing resources to ensure what they publish meets an acceptable level of accuracy and quality (neither to be confused with “balance”), but your reference to their market cap and the relationship it has to the amount of money they have to spend a bit misleading as you seem to be confusing market cap, i.e. what all issued GW stock is worth, with what GW's actual revenue is and what they can spend.

You should probably refer to their earnings report for a better idea of how much money GW has and the size of the company, e.g. per their half-yearly report issued 12 Jan 2021 they earned £186.8m (~255.3m USD) in last six months and have £96.5m in cash and cash equivalents which interestingly is almost double what they had last year and probably reflects them stock piling cash due to COVID and BREXIT uncertainty and their apparent aversion to long term debt.

Consequently, it is more accurate to describe GW as a multi-million dollar company, not a multi-billion dollar company since they don’t earn or spend billions (yet). Again, no excuse for the shoddy QC on FAQ’s or other published works.

Uh, it's you who is confusing metrics here. The value of a company is nearly always described in terms of market capitalization, and almost never in terms of yearly revenues. When someone says "Apple is a trillion dollar company" they don't mean Apple has a trillion dollars in yearly revenue. When someone says "X is a Y-dollar company" they basically always mean the value of the company. If you want to talk about yearly revenues, you say "X sells Y value of products every year" or something like that.

If you want to say the value of the company is misleading because GW doesn't actually have the resources of the average billion-dollar company because its stock is wildly inflated relative to its actual financial performance, that's an argument we can have. But that's different than saying "no GW isn't a billion dollar company!" It emphatically is.

The excuse is particularly funny since 40k got huge changes in their faq with lot less time to collect data during worse corona period

I did NOT see the markable warcry units coming and dam is that a fantastic change. I am absolutely a fan of how they went about it; they did not go the simple route of giving all the warscrolls the ability to take marks but rather tied it to a specific division of StD allegiance. Very smart since that prevents a large number of potential exploits from the get go, and further enhances Idolators as having a unique identity. Really happy with this change, well done GW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

yukishiro1 wrote:
It's a complete joke. They had the data to do a bunch of "Metawatch" articles hyping the competitive side of the game

Do we really want them doing point changes based on the viewpoints of those articles? Sure some are on the mark, but others seem to be way off. Look at their most recent one the the sample armies they have. Those builds are completely under-optimised and if they think THAT is a meta army it really does explain the state of balance we have in a nutshell.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:
The excuse is particularly funny since 40k got huge changes in their faq with lot less time to collect data during worse corona period

TBF, there are a lot more 40k players and given the mass amount of 40k releases even more short-term feedback as a result.

The most recent one wasn't even a real metawatch, I have no idea why they titled it that. It doesn't follow the format of any of the others, both in terms of not having a GW interviewer and in terms of not focusing on actual competitive lists. It feels like it was just an excuse to get Vince and Tom onto the site.

GW doesn't have to be geniuses to figure out that Kroak at 320 is too cheap, or that Barak Zilfin WLV-in-a-bottle is totally broken. If they had said "we're not going to do a full points evaluation because we don't feel we have the data needed, so we're only going to touch a few of the most egregiously oppressive things" that'd be one thing and I think most people would have been ok with it. Claiming they don't have enough data to show anything, however, is clearly not true and is just insulting to peoples' intelligence. Nobody can argue with a straight face that we don't know that Kroak is undercosted. Sure, maybe only increase him to 350ish instead of 400ish if you're not 100% sure what the right cost is, but everyone knows that 320 is not it. You can't tell me they honestly don't know that.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I am absolutely a fan of how they went about it; they did not go the simple route of giving all the warscrolls the ability to take marks but rather tied it to a specific division of StD allegiance. Very smart since that prevents a large number of potential exploits from the get go, and further enhances Idolators as having a unique identity. Really happy with this change, well done GW.

Yay, they fixed absolute trash-tier units for ONE sub-allegiance. That's amazing. And if you don't want to play Idolators, your not-cultist warbands can continue to sit on the shelf waiting to turn back into liquid oil.

As for Metawatch, they sure sounded like GW (since they were the ones doing moderating, like all articles on Warhammer Community website they are glorified marketing pitches) is proud of how broken some of the builds are. Don't forget to buy all of the eels for Idoneth, spamming them is a GW-approved tactic, not a byproduct of trash game balance.

Uh, not all of the cultist warbands are bad to begin with--they simply perform as one would expect for a unit that costs so few points.

Anyways, I think that ideally they should gain the Undivided keyword (along with other non-markable StD units) while only Idolators get the full range. But I prefer this, vastly, over not having it at all. Which is what we had before. If your roof has three leaks and someone patches one of them, do you spit in their face because they didn't fix the other two? Because that's a great way to not get the other leaks fixed.

If I pay them for keeping the roof from leaking at all and they just slap a strip of duct-tape on one of the holes then yes, they deserve not spit but a paddling, the lazy buggers. GW isn't doing us a favor by fixing their products, it's not charity, it's part of product support that we pay their exorbitant prices for.

So is this whole marked Warcry warbands thing in the Slaves to Darkness FAQ? Seems like no matter what I do, I can only open the July version of the PDF.

 Geifer wrote:
So is this whole marked Warcry warbands thing in the Slaves to Darkness FAQ? Seems like no matter what I do, I can only open the July version of the PDF.

Morathi. It only matters for subfaction in that book.

Unnamed version shown off in lore article about the Aelementari Temples today.

Such an amazing sculpt.

Glorious.

tneva82 wrote:

 Geifer wrote:
So is this whole marked Warcry warbands thing in the Slaves to Darkness FAQ? Seems like no matter what I do, I can only open the July version of the PDF.

Morathi. It only matters for subfaction in that book.

Thanks.

Interesting how early this is. I was thinking we might not see models released until April, so it’s interesting to see WC coming already.

diepotato47 wrote:
Interesting how early this is. I was thinking we might not see models released until April, so it’s interesting to see WC coming already.

Well if they want broken realms cover all factions it's 6-7 books. Got to release faster than every 6 months before aos3

Agreed, but then again we saw new Slaanesh pretty early last year and they aren't coming until February (and possibly late February if the Black Library Weekend counts as one of the release weeks since GW is down to only 2 a month)

So the water temple and zenith/pure light mentioned in the article.
Is that the four temples of Lumineth?

Mountain, River, Wind & Light.

Danny76 wrote:
So the water temple and zenith/pure light mentioned in the article.
Is that the four temples of Lumineth?

Mountain, River, Wind & Light.

Yes as per battle tome. We have known names from the start including some details(mounted archers for wlnd for example)

I don’t have the battle tome. That’s why I was asking.

Yeah, so, why were people talking about “fire elves” earlier then?
Did someone hear elemental temples and jump straight to Classical Greek elements or what?
(Also do not have the tome)

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Yeah, so, why were people talking about “fire elves” earlier then?
Did someone hear elemental temples and jump straight to Classical Greek elements or what?
(Also do not have the tome)

Because people have been nonstop meming about Avatar and other nonsense rather than listening to the folks who have been posting about this stuff for almost half of a year.

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Yeah, so, why were people talking about “fire elves” earlier then?
Did someone hear elemental temples and jump straight to Classical Greek elements or what?
(Also do not have the tome)

Person didn't likely have tome either and went on classical elements. There's no fire elements in battle tome. Did have these 4 though plus tons of mention on tyrion's martial side. Rangers, chariots, war machines.

Right, sick memes and ignorance then. Standard internet fare, should have guessed.

Also wouldn’t fire elves come from Chamon, if anywhere?

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Right, sick memes and ignorance then. Standard internet fare, should have guessed.

Also wouldn’t fire elves come from Chamon, if anywhere?

Aqshy. Which is covered by the Fyreslayers as the elemental realm army. Though to be fair we also have the Phoenix Guard...

Phoenix Guard aren't elemental warriors, they just fight with (and are bonded with) different Phoenix's. It's more of a religious association than anything else.

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Right, sick memes and ignorance then. Standard internet fare, should have guessed.

Also wouldn’t fire elves come from Chamon, if anywhere?

I'll cop to ignorance of what precisely is in the books, but 'sick memes' is just insulting.
Fire was a logical extrapolation of where the one direction this army has is going.
If it's even more directionless than I thought, that isn't my fault.

"The Spirefall was the result of the unchecked hubris of the Lumineth, whose raw talent and mastery of art, philosophy, martial pursuits, and magic gave them little reason for humility. The short version? They sought endlessly to outdo one another, and these rivalries culminated in a devastating internecine war. So great was the power they unleashed that the resulting energies attracted and empowered the Dark Gods, Slaanesh in particular, giving rise to the Age of Chaos. Yes, that Age of Chaos."

Stupid Pre-Lumineth. They pull an Eldar, just with less excess and hedonism.

Love that the Wind-spirit has a unnamed version, which still looks cool but is also different enough than the named version.

Are we expecting any of the river aelementor in the upcoming release? They seem to have pretty established lore and are common enough that it would be weird not to have at least one. Unless the Underworld guy is one of them?

Voss wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Right, sick memes and ignorance then. Standard internet fare, should have guessed.

Also wouldn’t fire elves come from Chamon, if anywhere?

I'll cop to ignorance of what precisely is in the books, but 'sick memes' is just insulting.
Fire was a logical extrapolation of where the one direction this army has is going.
If it's even more directionless than I thought, that isn't my fault.

Ah lol. "i make　baseless assumptions without bothering to check already existing facts and if　i go wrong　it's not my fault"

Okay straight to ignore list since you just troll with　"i know better than others" attitude

Stupid Pre-Lumineth. They pull an Eldar, just with less excess and hedonism.

GW has exactly one plotline for Elves, in space or not.

Cronch wrote:

Stupid Pre-Lumineth. They pull an Eldar, just with less excess and hedonism.

GW has exactly one plotline for Elves, in space or not.

Ehh... it's the same plotline in the sense that King Arthur and Star Wars New Hope are the same plotline. Similarities in the overall arc, but all the details are different.

Cronch wrote:

Stupid Pre-Lumineth. They pull an Eldar, just with less excess and hedonism.

GW has exactly one plotline for Elves, in space or not.

It’s not even their plot line. This is lifted wholesale from Tolkien.

Oh gods you can take more than one fox-creature-archer?!!

Gah must remain strong - must resist temptation.

Elves and Dwarves have the same "Historical" plotline in 90% of all fantasy.

 Overread wrote:
Oh gods you can take more than one fox-creature-archer?!!

Gah must remain strong - must resist temptation.

Yes. Yes you can.

They're likely Behemoths though so it could be messy.

This one rest the arrow on the correct side.

Cronch wrote:
If I pay them for keeping the roof from leaking at all and they just slap a strip of duct-tape on one of the holes then yes, they deserve not spit but a paddling, the lazy buggers. GW isn't doing us a favor by fixing their products, it's not charity, it's part of product support that we pay their exorbitant prices for.

Several problems here:

-The assumption that people are buying the product with the expectation it will become better in the future for free. When one buys something they should look at it and think "is this item worth this cost to me?" And if the answer is no that individual should not be buying it in the first place.

-The assumption that GW has a responsibility to make the Warcry units completely integrated in AoS. These are models for a related but ultimately separate game that we got AoS rules & reboxing for. That we can use them in AoS at all is already extra; Necromunda gangs status in 40k is the alternative. If GW is going to put them in AoS there is a basic responsibility that they are good enough to be viable, which most of them are. No, they aren't particularly good. Neither are the majority of units in the game. They are side-units from another game shoehorned into AoS.

-This is hardly duct tape. It is a massive improvement over the previous situation and diversifies player options in a big way while not kicking down the doors for them to be chaff in every mono-God army. They gave narrative players and converters an entire canvas to paint on without damaging the experience for more matched minded players and that is pretty cool. And even if it was duct tape, that is still something good that they did. If the only response to them improving things (even things they broke in the first place) is negative feedback then it does not exactly encourage them to make further fixes.

IMO it is attitudes like yours being so widespread that gives GW an impression making fixes isn't all that valuable because so many people will be unhappy regardless. I see feedback like yours as a supporting brick to why we have to deal with all the balance issues we do.

AoS is a better game now than it was before this change. I am pleased by that and am going to offer equivalent feedback as such. Were they addressing a flaw they themselves created? Yes--and I already issued my criticism of that flaw when it arrived and I'm not taking that back or saying my previous negative feedback is void. I am giving positive feedback for a positive change. Further, were I to react negatively to a positive change it would dilute the legitimacy of past and future criticisms; how much of my opinion would be a fair assessment and how much would it be me black-knighting to hate on everything GW does? Because I am sure we can all agree that is a thing.

IMO it is attitudes like yours being so widespread that gives GW an impression making fixes isn't all that valuable because so many people will be unhappy regardless. I see feedback like yours as a supporting brick to why we have to deal with all the balance issues we do.

Yeah, it's all me and people like me that demand effort on behalf of a small indie company like Games Workshop. Christ.

Cronch wrote:

IMO it is attitudes like yours being so widespread that gives GW an impression making fixes isn't all that valuable because so many people will be unhappy regardless. I see feedback like yours as a supporting brick to why we have to deal with all the balance issues we do.

Yeah, it's all me and people like me that demand effort on behalf of a small indie company like Games Workshop. Christ.

Hopefully the new Warhammer Quest will have scarecrow zombies so you can have a visual representation of that straw man, but in the meantime there's a blood bowl lineman that should work.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Oh gods you can take more than one fox-creature-archer?!!

Gah must remain strong - must resist temptation.

Yes. Yes you can.

They're likely Behemoths though so it could be messy.

Do you think they will be? They don't seem that big to me. Or is that a 100mm base?

That's actually a good question. They didn't really show us anything 'to scale' for it. I'm just guessing though...if it's smaller, then oh hell yes I'm going to be thrilled.

 Kanluwen wrote:
That's actually a good question. They didn't really show us anything 'to scale' for it. I'm just guessing though...if it's smaller, then oh hell yes I'm going to be thrilled.

Well there is this artwork:




So I think it not as big (how tall is another question) then Spirit Mountain but it not small either. Maybe manticore or cavalry size as a model but base is maybe as big as 80mm.

I sure hope the foxes are limited by battle role. The last thing we need in the Lumineth is more god-like archers that can snipe you from anywhere on the table.

...then there is most likely a repeated bolt-thrower ballista to come as war-engine later, so... *sighs* We're all doomend, aren't we ?

@NinthMusketeer

I agree with what most of what you are saying.

I have a bunch of Warcry cultists more from the fact they are cool models I wanted to paint and maybe someday use them in D&D more than play in AoS. Even in Age of Sigmar, I make use of Warcry cultists most games when I am playing my Slaves to Darkness army. With Ravagers, they work fine as something to summon around the table edges for a CP. I have never been too bothered by lack of Marks of Chaos. As you mentioned, a few of the cults work fine on their own for what they bring.

My Warcry Cultists are only wholly within the command aura of heroes by accident. So even if they did have Marks of Chaos it wouldn't really do anything for them most of the time. I also typically go all Chaos Undivided for my army. Chances are better than not, that a unit of Warcry Cultists are going to be removed entirely than ever have to worry about failing a Bravery test. So outside my General and Warshrine, Marks of Chaos are completely useless to me anyways.

Of course, that is not to say I wouldn't alter my tactics if they had Marks. I probably would. I think this change is pretty good in that I had no interest in Idolaters before. Now, with the significant number of Warcry Cultists I have, it does make it something worth considering to change up how I play my collection. Which really is only a good thing.

The thing that irks me is a number of models in the StD lineup are undivided and mechanically speaking should have the keyword so they properly fit into the allegiance. The Darkoath heroes and the Ogroid Myrmidon aren't benefiting from the main allegiance ability of StD. These aren't auxiliary assets like a hemorrhoid crusher, these are relatively generic hero choices, from a design and fluff perspective they should have the Undivided keyword. I personally think the warcry cultists should too, but I can also understand an argument otherwise.

Something I have rarely seen GW do is limited marking. I still hope they will explore this eventually, as it is characterful and would work great with the warcry cults. 'Limited marks' being when a unit has access to marks of chaos but only some of them as befitting the unit in question. Wizards are the main example, being they can take all but Khorne. But what if an Ogroid Myrmidon could take anything but Tzeentch, because it is not magically/schemingly inclined? Or Cypher Lords only being able to mark undivided, Tzeentch, and Slaanesh. Could be a very interesting direction.

Honestly I think the idea of limited marking is what they've done with the way they approached the old Demons of Chaos book - fragmenting it into four separate armies which are steadily getting not just demons but mortal followers.
If anything I would hope once Slaanesh is out we will see GW revisiting each of the four and starting to add a few more demons. Each one is running on almost the same demons that they were back in Old World; whilst the mortal side has expanded greatly.



So I think GW is already there; but perhaps needs to revisit the demonic side

Truthfully, the only thing that needs to really happen with regards to the WarCry/Underworlds stuff is actually differentiating things out a bit better. They should be a unit of low-grade Leaders on the Underworlds side, and a mix of Leader(s) and Unit(s) on the WarCry side.

Loving the new fox archer.
Looking at the fancy crap on its base, I’m assuming it’s celestant prime sized maybe?
Edit: having looked again I’m thinking 60mm at most.
The detail is much wider than that base.
It’s also not coated in needless details like they do with the larger sculpts.


I’ll just be happy if they get nothing else magic related.
Any army that relies on magic is entirely shut down by them to the point it’s not even funny.
Even Kroaknado struggles, which says it all.

We'll be getting the needed martial heroes as well. Lord Regent on Goldhorn, Loremaster v2, BSB and so on. I'm rather looking forward to the fox as well as swordmasters v2. I hope they introduce a few special banners for the bsb, particularly if they give the nod to their predecessors (lion, battle and so on).

Hopefully they'll sort the delays/papers before the second part of the Lumineth is ready for shipping. Otherwise, the Dutch will notice the increase of new warehouses in their neighbourhood.

Article on Hedonites (with kickass art): https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/02/02/the-dark-prince-returns-find-out-what-that-means-for-the-hedonites-of-slaanesh/



Also, book coming later this month.

Sotahullu wrote:
Also, book coming later this month.

With the biweekly release schedule pre-order will either be the 13th or 27th.

I'm hoping the 13th. Whilst 27th is valid it seems rather "late" for the big release of the month. That said it will make the 13th an expensive week since there's also the Black Library event happening at the same time or the day before etc..

Still getting new battletomes AND Xenos 2 lorebok will be awesome in itself.

This Slaaneshi artwork is absolutely brilliant. Makes me so hopeful for when they eventually get around to EC in 40k

I'm starting an Ossiarch army, and I have a buddy whose starting a Slaanesh AoS army. Going to be fun playing out the lore-battles between those two factions.

I really like the push and pull between the different factions in the lore, and I'm enjoying the Soulwars era of the narrative. I like that Death is the big bad, and folks are working to attempt to do something about it, it's cool.

 Overread wrote:
I'm hoping the 13th. Whilst 27th is valid it seems rather "late" for the big release of the month. That said it will make the 13th an expensive week since there's also the Black Library event happening at the same time or the day before etc..

Still getting new battletomes AND Xenos 2 lorebok will be awesome in itself.

The Black Library event is the 20th, according to the article they did on it.

 Overread wrote:
I'm hoping the 13th. Whilst 27th is valid it seems rather "late" for the big release of the month. That said it will make the 13th an expensive week since there's also the Black Library event happening at the same time or the day before etc..

Still getting new battletomes AND Xenos 2 lorebok will be awesome in itself.

Surely it’s the 13th was they said Feb.
The 27th will release in March.

Now I know what some will say, it goes by pre order date not release (something I was always making the point on).
However, Dark Angels And Hedonites were both slated for Feb, and the WHU warriors too.
But we had a Jan 28th preorder for them, thus making it not fit..

I had completely forgotten about Sigvald until his art showed up in the Warcom article. Like wow. And it's a model I really want too haha. But now I'm in a soulblight mood

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Overread wrote:
I'm hoping the 13th. Whilst 27th is valid it seems rather "late" for the big release of the month. That said it will make the 13th an expensive week since there's also the Black Library event happening at the same time or the day before etc..

Still getting new battletomes AND Xenos 2 lorebok will be awesome in itself.

The Black Library event is the 20th, according to the article they did on it.

Ahh I'd got the 12th or so stuck in my head.

Danny76 wrote:
Surely it’s the 13th was they said Feb.
The 27th will release in March.

Now I know what some will say, it goes by pre order date not release (something I was always making the point on).
However, Dark Angels And Hedonites were both slated for Feb, and the WHU warriors too.
But we had a Jan 28th preorder for them, thus making it not fit..

They use pre-order dates and have for some time (e.g., the Nighthaunt battletome). Plus Codex Supplement Dark Angels was listed as a January release on the Codex Roadmap.

 Ghaz wrote:

Danny76 wrote:
Surely it’s the 13th was they said Feb.
The 27th will release in March.

Now I know what some will say, it goes by pre order date not release (something I was always making the point on).
However, Dark Angels And Hedonites were both slated for Feb, and the WHU warriors too.
But we had a Jan 28th preorder for them, thus making it not fit..

They use pre-order dates and have for some time (e.g., the Nighthaunt battletome). Plus Codex Supplement Dark Angels was listed as a January release on the Codex Roadmap.

I used to argue the same that pre order dates is what matters. But no,
Both Khagra’s and Dark Angels were listed as releases for February.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/12/23/an-update-on-warhammer-releases-in-2021/

It was changed to Death Guard Jan, Dark Angels Feb and Drukhari March...

Oh man. I've been holding out for Malerion and his spooky elves, but Slaanesh is tempting me.

If Sigvald's rules live up to his ego, it'll be hard to resist his allure

YouTube video from GW announcing the Nighthaunt battletome coming in June 2018



Warhammer Community article for the Nighthaunt battletome pre-order on June 30th 2018, giving it a release date of July 7th 2018

From Storm and Mist: This Week’s Pre-orders

Sorry, but we have proof that as long as GW has the product up for pre-order then that meets the given date.

 Red Viper wrote:
Oh man. I've been holding out for Malerion and his spooky elves, but Slaanesh is tempting me.

If Sigvald's rules live up to his ego, it'll be hard to resist his allure

With vampires strongly hinted at already and with the big Slaanesh and Lumineth updates and Warhammer Quest I would say its a good bet that Shadow Aelves are not coming this year. Heck who knows they might, but I'd not put money on it at this stage.


So allow yourself to be tempted; give into temptation; give into the excess and the depravity; allow yourself to indulge in Slaanesh

Don’t disagree.
But we also have proof of two Feb releases being January preorders.
It can’t be both ends.
Maybe it’s changed in two years of time, I don’t know. But this month anyway, doesn’t fit how it used to be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Overread wrote:

 Red Viper wrote:
Oh man. I've been holding out for Malerion and his spooky elves, but Slaanesh is tempting me.

If Sigvald's rules live up to his ego, it'll be hard to resist his allure

With vampires strongly hinted at already and with the big Slaanesh and Lumineth updates and Warhammer Quest I would say its a good bet that Shadow Aelves are not coming this year. Heck who knows they might, but I'd not put money on it at this stage.


So allow yourself to be tempted; give into temptation; give into the excess and the depravity; allow yourself to indulge in Slaanesh

April for Vampires, October for Elves? It’d be spread out enough for two new factions..

True but GW also has the potential for more; such as a second Death army this year focused on perhaps the Deathrattle and skeletons/necromancer line. They could also flesh out other factions; there's a good few in AoS right now that could do with a second wave of models or a big update of old sculpts. They also might flip back to 40K and heck give Eldar the big update they deserve/need

Between legions of Nagash and ossiarchs, is another new skeleton army even desirable?

Or would it just be a fresh load of salt to dump on the wounds of tomb kings players?

Generally speaking any release date told by GW refers to the day you can add the product into shopping cart, ie. pre-order date. Dark Angels and Khagra's may not fit the pattern here but I wouldn't read too much into it because the pattern is all over the place anyway due to production issues.

Everything will be released eventually and if it's week or month later than anticipated that only means we have more time to work on our backlog before rushing to buy primaris marines with new hat.

Voss wrote:
Between legions of Nagash and ossiarchs, is another new skeleton army even desirable?

Or would it just be a fresh load of salt to dump on the wounds of tomb kings players?

Legions of Nagash is a catch-all for the faction at present; it has bits of every Death army in it. And yes there's certainly room for a regular skeleton army, even within the lore they are present in great numbers and Ossiarchs are very different in concept and design.

It depends somewhat on how GW does vampires as they could include Skeletons there. Plus GW could rework Legions of Nagash to focus far more on the Skeleton element - perhaps the story will even support that if Nagash gets knocked down a peg and loses some control over Death or over himself etc....; then perhaps the Vampires will arise as their own faction and then Nagash will have to use his Skeleton legions in a far more overt manner instead of using them mostly as grunt slaves to build and collect grains of sand.

If they could get rid of Nagash many if not most of the powerful undead would be delighted - especially the vampires....

Not going to happen but would love for a Underworlds of Nagash style Soulblight book including living elements which are so present (and essential) to the lore.

The teases of new Slaanesh models had already aroused my interest, now I am getting quite excited.

I figure the most likely is that Nagash loses his all powerful control over Death; or at least has it weakened/fragmented or otherwise damaged. That would mean that his legions lose power as right now after Slaves to Darkness, he's fast heading tobe the biggest single faction.

 Marshal Loss wrote:
This Slaaneshi artwork is absolutely brilliant.

It's cool, but, like... does GW not have any artists who can draw women? It just seems like a really weird, glaring thing that is missing from all the Hedonites artwork in that preview article. The Hedonites model range is probably the best GW has done so far in terms of representing male and female characters as equals, but the artwork... loads of buff dudes dominating the foreground of every image, with maybe a smudged figure in the distant background that might possibly be female if you squint at it. It just seems odd to me.

I figure Legions of Nagash would sort of go away.
I can’t see Deathrattle getting it’s own. I would have thought they’d be perfect to fit in with the vampires (especially if Necromancers are in there too)..

Danny76 wrote:
I figure Legions of Nagash would sort of go away.
I can’t see Deathrattle getting it’s own. I would have thought they’d be perfect to fit in with the vampires (especially if Necromancers are in there too)..

I think the Legion is a neat way to a combined arms grand alliance type army, but more balanced than just putting every model from every army into the pool.

Danny76 wrote:
I figure Legions of Nagash would sort of go away.
I can’t see Deathrattle getting it’s own. I would have thought they’d be perfect to fit in with the vampires (especially if Necromancers are in there too)..

Deathrattle tend to be independant and or work with the living (or enslave them) allying with Soulblight and others.

Man i hope soulblighr gravelords are not a redone LEgions.
It would suck because i sold mine a long time ago. it would suck to have to buy the Mortarchs and skeletons all over again

Legions are the base from which the rest of the Death lineup deviates. They are the generic which allows others to be specialists. They also have a large amount of modern plastics with nowhere else to go, and will no doubt have new miniatures to draw from when Old World hits as plenty of units can do double duty in AoS. They aren't going anywhere.

 Ghaz wrote:
YouTube video from GW announcing the Nighthaunt battletome coming in June 2018

Spoiler:

Warhammer Community article for the Nighthaunt battletome pre-order on June 30th 2018, giving it a release date of July 7th 2018

From Storm and Mist: This Week’s Pre-orders

Sorry, but we have proof that as long as GW has the product up for pre-order then that meets the given date.

They used to do so but they changed starting with necron and space marine codexes that came to first saturday of october and marked as october release(and thus were on preorder on september).

It used to be one way, GW changed. Now it's hopefully day it comes on store. Worse case: It could be either depending on GW's mood.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The teases of new Slaanesh models had already aroused my interest, now I am getting quite excited.

I know right. I'm not going to jump in this right away, but I do have a bunch of Slaanesh Daemons on the backlog.

I'm really excited for this tome.

I kinda feel like the new vampire army will still make use of the skeletons and grave guard as infantry. Kinda like how daughters of khaine added the melusai but kept the old kits as the core of the army. I think they will get a healthy dose of new kits but nothing like what the lumineth are getting.

I do hope the varghulf makes it into the army as well (new plastic kit please).

The slaanesh stuff has been teased for so long I just want them released and out of the way.

Well as its "Soulblight Gravelords" I actually believe that it is new name for Legions of Nagash going forward. In particular the last part.

Plus of course all of the new vampire stuff and/or things. As long it doesn't involve some teenage drama I am probably fine with it.

I wouldnt mind them having some of the other Core Death have.
ITs will for sure be interesting

 Thargrim wrote:
I kinda feel like the new vampire army will still make use of the skeletons and grave guard as infantry. Kinda like how daughters of khaine added the melusai but kept the old kits as the core of the army. I think they will get a healthy dose of new kits but nothing like what the lumineth are getting.

I do hope the varghulf makes it into the army as well (new plastic kit please).

The slaanesh stuff has been teased for so long I just want them released and out of the way.

I think it's very likely that this picks up what's remaining from LoN, and they eventually squat LoN.

Honestly, if they go pure Vampire, I'll be happy. Plastic bloodknights? Yes please. Elite vampire foot guys? Vampire Khinerai heartreanders? If they look like the underworld guy, heck yeah. Then add some vargheist and varghulfs, and there we go. (Oh, and the Black coach)

Though zombies and skeletons would be a nice chaff unit. Zombies are destined to be upgraded (hopefully getting more than the Quest models), but I think we'll be stuck with the current skeletons (which aren't bad and far better than the Tomb King guys.)

There are some death models that haven't gotten new homes yet. Like I'm surprised the Mortis Engine wasn't given to the Nighthaunts. Or that skeletons, black knights, etc weren't just heaped into Bonereapers (which is fine, they don't look anything like the army)

They could also make zombies (with a new kit and options), dire wolves and bats the standard troops for Soulblight armies, garnished with elite Vampire units and characters.

Sotahullu wrote:
Well as its "Soulblight Gravelords" I actually believe that it is new name for Legions of Nagash going forward. In particular the last part.

That I could see happening. We'll probably be able to tell from looking at the unit roster. I am still predicting that it will be Soulblight exclusive with a 1-per-4 on bringing in non-OBR, non-FEC stuff. But I've been wrong before and will be again.

 Duskweaver wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:
This Slaaneshi artwork is absolutely brilliant.

It's cool, but, like... does GW not have any artists who can draw women? It just seems like a really weird, glaring thing that is missing from all the Hedonites artwork in that preview article. The Hedonites model range is probably the best GW has done so far in terms of representing male and female characters as equals, but the artwork... loads of buff dudes dominating the foreground of every image, with maybe a smudged figure in the distant background that might possibly be female if you squint at it. It just seems odd to me.

I noticed that as well. It's the same kind of jarring as all the artwork that showed us females in armies that only have an all male model line, except the other way around this time.

On the artwork itself, I'm looking forward to what else is in the battletome. I'm hoping for cool artwork for the infantry archers. Not sure we'll get that these days with how GW is so obsessed with gods and heroes, but I like seeing pictures of the regular Joes that make an army what it is.

 GaroRobe wrote:
Honestly, if they go pure Vampire, I'll be happy. Plastic bloodknights? Yes please. Elite vampire foot guys? Vampire Khinerai heartreanders? If they look like the underworld guy, heck yeah. Then add some vargheist and varghulfs, and there we go. (Oh, and the Black coach)

I'd rather have a larger variety of units with the ability to cut down on your unit selection to create an all vampire army if you so choose. I'm actually leaning more in Mr. Morden's direction that GW should see to it that we can mix living and dead units in at least one Grand Alliance (be that a Gravelords style army of Cities of Sigmar). It's a sad state of affairs that Shyish's population has to suffer segregation and cannot go to war against Chaos invaders as a united army.

 GaroRobe wrote:
Though zombies and skeletons would be a nice chaff unit. Zombies are destined to be upgraded (hopefully getting more than the Quest models), but I think we'll be stuck with the current skeletons (which aren't bad and far better than the Tomb King guys.)

You sure about the zombies? They're only 25 years old and look no worse today than they did then.

It's not that the skeletons are bad, and there's no massive deviation from their style on the ones we got for Underworlds (less bat imagery, I guess), but to me they suffer too much from the same problem Chaos Warriors did. They're too regimented and sculpted around Warhammer Fantasy regimental formation for my taste. They're not bad models, but I'd rather they got a refresh to bring them in line with the appearance of AoS like the Start Collecting Chaos Warriors did.

When I started AoS I thought, cool, my skellies don't need to be regimented. Awesome! I'll have lots of dynamic poses, with the spears pointing every which way. Individually they looked cool but in a block of 40... man, what an absolute chore, with spears getting stuck in ribcages and all sorts. Flogged the lot, rebought them, and build them all regimented.

Well article on Curse City: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/02/04/your-first-look-at-warhammer-quest-cursed-citys-skeletal-ulfenwatch/

But my focus was on these cool as hell skeletons:

And people said Ossiarchs were the end of regular skeletons. Those are utterly awesome skeletons!

Wow those are cool. Why is this a side game and not a full army, GW? -_-

Maybe skeletons like these will be with the vamps

Yeah, these are cool. Good continuation from the Underworld skeletons.

Danny76 wrote:
Maybe skeletons like these will be with the vamps

One can only hope.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Wow those are cool. Why is this a side game and not a full army, GW? -_-

I mean, GW's sidegames are always more fun to play than their main fare cause they're actually allowed to create fun rules and not need balance that much so nothing much is lost

Though I think the skeletons currently, along with the grave guard, are really nice. So they don’t need it.
(Look at the massive skeletons before them, it was such an improvement).
That was something we (as everyone knows ten times o,ver) that we needed with the Zombies more than anything.

Danny76 wrote:
Though I think the skeletons currently, along with the grave guard, are really nice. So they don’t need it.
(Look at the massive skeletons before them, it was such an improvement).

They were an improvement, with one caveat- assembly is a pain. Their one contact point is the spine, and the shoulders aren't great either. They're rather fiddly and fragile models.

This is purely a guess but I could see Quest having a 10-man (ETB?) sprue each of skeletons, zombies and ghouls and maybe whatever the fourth faction is like the Chainrasp and Necron Warriors got. Update a bunch of Death battleline all at once and justify remastering old units by sneaking them into a board game production slot.

These skellies are so cool. Unreal work.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
This is purely a guess but I could see Quest having a 10-man (ETB?) sprue each of skeletons, zombies and ghouls and maybe whatever the fourth faction is like the Chainrasp and Necron Warriors got. Update a bunch of Death battleline all at once and justify remastering old units by sneaking them into a board game production slot.

The zombies we are getting are too themed around the garden area it seems like they’re coming from in the game.
Not sure they’d work as generic (or multiple sprue buys etc), going by the video.

The ideas good, but really I only see zombies as needing a sprue upgrade out of all those.
Some of the others aren’t the best but not sure they warrant a whole new sprue..

Danny76 wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
This is purely a guess but I could see Quest having a 10-man (ETB?) sprue each of skeletons, zombies and ghouls and maybe whatever the fourth faction is like the Chainrasp and Necron Warriors got. Update a bunch of Death battleline all at once and justify remastering old units by sneaking them into a board game production slot.

The zombies we are getting are too themed around the garden area it seems like they’re coming from in the game.
Not sure they’d work as generic (or multiple sprue buys etc), going by the video.

The ideas good, but really I only see zombies as needing a sprue upgrade out of all those.
Some of the others aren’t the best but not sure they warrant a whole new sprue..

The new zombie design may just be an attempt to differentiate them from skeletons/bonereapers etc, like they did with the ghouls around 7th. It drives home the risen dead angle and drastically changes the silhouette.

Danny76 wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
This is purely a guess but I could see Quest having a 10-man (ETB?) sprue each of skeletons, zombies and ghouls and maybe whatever the fourth faction is like the Chainrasp and Necron Warriors got. Update a bunch of Death battleline all at once and justify remastering old units by sneaking them into a board game production slot.

The zombies we are getting are too themed around the garden area it seems like they’re coming from in the game.
Not sure they’d work as generic (or multiple sprue buys etc), going by the video.

The ideas good, but really I only see zombies as needing a sprue upgrade out of all those.
Some of the others aren’t the best but not sure they warrant a whole new sprue..

'Garden Zombies' I can believe as being GW's OCDONOTSTEAL type on Zombies in order to differ-for-the-sake-of-difference. Arguably the presence of the Skeletons debukes that argument, but at least the Skeletons have a certain armour design to them. Zombies you can take basically anything you want, paint some decayed skin/blood and bam, zombies.

Yeah true.
It does make sense.

And when GW make stuff super unique, it does normally mean great sculpts (even ones not to my taste, the detail etc is all intricate and such).

Garden Zombies?

Don't you mean Treerot Boneshamblers? Or Mossblade Fleshwalkers?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Garden Zombies?

Don't you mean Treerot Boneshamblers? Or Mossblade Fleshwalkers?

I just want a little zombie garden Gnome I don't care what he's called.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Garden Zombies?

Don't you mean Treerot Boneshamblers? Or Mossblade Fleshwalkers?

Plants vs Zombies has never sounded better

Oh short story by the way:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/02/05/broken-realms-fiction-the-golden-son/

Oh and probably one of the cheesiest lines:

‘Greetings!’ the beautiful death grinned, unsheathing a silvered rapier. ‘Rejoice, for I am about to murder every last one of you!’

Heh that line was pretty bad. Still a fun little short.

Fits with the character - he is a dick

Sigvald is my new AOS hero..Hes corny AF and I love that

I am quite disappointed that the story had Sigvald counting 66, 67, 68 AND THEN SKIPS AHEAD A FEW NUMBERS

Come on GW. Let Sigvald joke

Well I think Sigvald has probably some of the better one liners saved for Nagash.

'Cause of the whole mirror thing or what not.

I mean it’s something I would say.

Hedonits and Daughters up

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/02/07/sunday-preview-devotees-of-divine-excess-and-murder-collide/

Expensive week next week methinks.

Wow. Is that the entire Slaanesh release? And it's not being dragged out for the entire month?

Tiny shame that the DoK dice are a bit plain and not even marbled with red and black or such, like the Slaanesh are marbled. That said I'm not worried as I've the dice from before.


Great week for me, Slaanesh and DoK battletomes are a must; after that I'll have to see what I can budget for - since I sort of want it all but can't in no way afford it all. If nothing else I'll have to get some of the new seekers.

Surprised the Ironscale is missing actually. Seems random to leave her out when the Lord of Pain is seperate now.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Surprised the Ironscale is missing actually. Seems random to leave her out when the Lord of Pain is seperate now.

I'm more surprised the Lord of Pain is out now. I get that its a slaanesh release (DoK release too, technically) but they usually take their time releasing the HQs from boxsets. The Archregent took almost a year to drop

I've often felt that the sometimes year long wait for duel box new models is a poor move on GW's front. Esp since those boxes will either sell out in the week or two from sale or they won't. Plus even if the model goes on individual sale the box itself still offers a good saving and discount.

I'm pleased to see a fast turn around; its great for both those on budget and also those who already have an extensive collection and don't want/need the additional content from the duel box.


Duel boxes always strike me (when its not all new content) as ideal for those new or growing an army; but not good for those on very tight budgets or those with extensive forces already.





It might just be a photo omission on the part of the Ironscale and the DoK warscrolls.

 Overread wrote:
Tiny shame that the DoK dice are a bit plain and not even marbled with red and black or such, like the Slaanesh are marbled.

I'm not a fan of the specialty dice, but those are oddly bad. There's no character to them at all beyond switching the six. They might as well have come out of a $3 dice replacement pack for Yahtzee. They're also the most cartoony 'blood-red' I've ever seen.

The slaanesh ones, on the other claw, are pretty nice, and manage to be reasonable, functional (ie, no double special symbol, and simple pips rather than a hodgepodge of runes) and attractive.

---
On the Slaanesh side, most of those units consist of really amazing models. But... they look frighteningly mono-pose, with a lot of detail that will make conversion difficult.

Wow is all that really up for preorder next week?

I suppose it makes sense when you look at the calendar. That means the actual order/buy date would be the 20th, meaning that following week would be the previews for drukhari with their preorder date being the 27th with a release of March 6th.

Time is just flying by.

On the subject of dice, those Slaanesh ones may be one of the first things I buy from GW in a while.

Are they still an arse to get hold of unless you sit hitting F5 for them to go live, or can I reasonably expect to order them from a LGS in my own time?

 Red Corsair wrote:
Wow is all that really up for preorder next week?

I suppose it makes sense when you look at the calendar. That means the actual order/buy date would be the 20th, meaning that following week would be the previews for drukhari with their preorder date being the 27th with a release of March 6th.

Time is just flying by.

And they'll hit the stores in the EU sometime in April, judging by how long it's taking Death Guard to arrive.

As to the preorder, all depends on prices. If they're like Lumineth release, and myrmidesh are just chaos-warrior equivalents, that makes the army incredibly unattractive, just like with the alarith hammerelves being 5 for the same price as 10 pike-elves for no real reason.

 Azreal13 wrote:
On the subject of dice, those Slaanesh ones may be one of the first things I buy from GW in a while.

Are they still an arse to get hold of unless you sit hitting F5 for them to go live, or can I reasonably expect to order them from a LGS in my own time?

Dice do generally get sent to 3rd parties and gw stores, however how fast they vanish depends on how popular the army is; the price and how many GW orders and puts up for sale online. Online sales DO tend to get hit hard right now in countries with widespread lockdowns.

That said its really hard to say; I would say if you want them try and get them on launch day. They shouldn't sell out as fast as, say, a limited edition book; but a lot of customers are now using the direct store who weren't before so things to tend to move at a fairly fast pace.



I would estimate the DoK dice don't go anywhere fast. As said above they are so plain they don't feel special; even just the marbling that the slaanesh dice have makes them nice.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Surprised the Ironscale is missing actually. Seems random to leave her out when the Lord of Pain is seperate now.

 GaroRobe wrote:
I'm more surprised the Lord of Pain is out now.

Both of these statements ring true.

Lord of Pain this early is great, but it makes little sense to not release the Ironscale given that their book (and everything else) is coming out that week.

Readable Dice AND the Lord of pain is coming on release?

In all seriousness, this is a great release. I'm looking forward to getting my hands on a copy of the book.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Surprised the Ironscale is missing actually. Seems random to leave her out when the Lord of Pain is seperate now.

 GaroRobe wrote:
I'm more surprised the Lord of Pain is out now.

Both of these statements ring true.

Lord of Pain this early is great, but it makes little sense to not release the Ironscale given that their book (and everything else) is coming out that week.

My working theory is that GW doesn't want to give the illusion that characters exclusive to boxsets will be released separetely in a short time period. Otherwise, people may not be incentivized to buy the ever more expensive boxsets

Got to be fair, the Shadow and Pain box was actually very good. Sold the Slaanesh half, ending up paying just under £40 for the complete Daughters side.

For those in the US, Shadow and Pain is back up (as of 3:46PM Eastern) on the US webstore.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Got to be fair, the Shadow and Pain box was actually very good. Sold the Slaanesh half, ending up paying just under £40 for the complete Daughters side.

You found the DoK's side? I've always found the least favorable half ends up ebay, but not the side that has the better models or deals (DoK, Bonereapers, etc). Fingers crossed that the upcoming DE vs SoB has the latter for sale at a decent price

Shadow and Pain was almost a perfect box for me as I collect both armies. The only real excess was Khinerai and that's mostly because I bought quite a few of them already as I love the models.

It's one of the few that I bought and didn't sell half the box on (the last time I did that was the Khorne and Slaanesh box years back).

Adore those Slaaneshi dice - will be picking up a few sets for sure.

Do we know what the slaanesh archers will cost?

They have a sword and sorcery vibe that I like.

 Gallahad wrote:
Do we know what the slaanesh archers will cost?

They have a sword and sorcery vibe that I like.

My guess is $70 CAD for a box. usual price for units like that.

The DoK release seems about as phoned in as possible. Bad dice, no seperate melusai ironscale and just endless spells. They did the bare minimum for them, go figure.

 Thargrim wrote:
The DoK release seems about as phoned in as possible. Bad dice, no seperate melusai ironscale and just endless spells. They did the bare minimum for them, go figure.

Community release info has missed things before from time to time. Honestly the only minor disappointment are the dice and that's really minor. DoK are just getting a small update, which suggests these might well be 3.0 battletomes since there's no real reason to update a battletome with so little if its still just for 2.0. Endless Spells don't even need anything to work bar a warscroll so a rework of the faction suggests 3.0 on the horizon or at least a 2.5 remastered edition of the rules.

Every time new battletomes come up with the new way GW does things, some are big revamps like Necrons and Slaanesh, others are modest updates and a few things here and there. DoK are getting one of the latter, Slaanesh one of the former. There are winners and losers each time, but all win in that battletomes are updated quicker for an edition. DoK are not left waiting until 4.0 for their next battletome and model update. DoK might also still get more models in time just as drip fed models here and there instead of a big update all in one go.




Right now DoK appear to be missing Warscroll cards, Ironscale and the AoS release for Shadowstalkers. Of those 3 things only the cards are totally unavailable right now; Ironscale and Shadowstalkers are both on the market in some form.
Thing is all 3 of those could just be missing from the community update. We'll find out for sure in the coming week.

The one interesting thing about the dice is that they're more square than the dice GW typically sells, right? Or at least compared to the one's I've bought or had a close look at before. Different manufacturer? As a stylistic choice, I'm not sure it makes sense with the faction per se, so that seems an unlikely explanation.

Sigvald 42.50
Glutos 90
Archers 40
Slaangors 40
Mymidesh 45
Seekers 55
Other heroes 22.50

(euros)

A bit weird pricing, but roughly in the same ballpark as LRL, so...expensive as heck.

Sigvald is cheaper than I expected.

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
The one interesting thing about the dice is that they're more square than the dice GW typically sells, right? Or at least compared to the one's I've bought or had a close look at before. Different manufacturer? As a stylistic choice, I'm not sure it makes sense with the faction per se, so that seems an unlikely explanation.

They’re very inconsistent with the dice designs. There’s definitely been square ones like that in the past.

My gods gw why are you pricing cavalry models so freakishly high all of a sudden?

They seem to add on £3-5 to anything that's a duel kit over usual cost. I just hope its easy to magnetise options for the seekers as the bodies seem tied to certain mounts with the only alt parts being head (bottom or turban appears to be body moulded as is shoulder pad) with arms swapping at the armpit.

The infantry prices aren't obscene for my purposes and I probably won't resist buying one of each for the models and conversion possibilities, but I'm not sure I'd be tempted to start an army of Slaaneshi mortals with Chaos Warrior equivalents for that price.

The Slaanesh dice are nice, though. If I can find a pack (unlikely though it is), I'm going to buy it no questions asked.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
The one interesting thing about the dice is that they're more square than the dice GW typically sells, right? Or at least compared to the one's I've bought or had a close look at before. Different manufacturer? As a stylistic choice, I'm not sure it makes sense with the faction per se, so that seems an unlikely explanation.

They’re very inconsistent with the dice designs. There’s definitely been square ones like that in the past.

Indeed. The Marine dice I have as well as the previous Daughters dice have pointy corners. The latter is actually nice since they'll fit with the new ones (unattractive design of the new ones notwithstanding).

It's much the same as packing. GW has the dice tubes Marine dice often come in, plastic boxes with cardboard sleaves like the previous Daughters and Custodes dice for instance, and blister packs that cropped up recently.

GW seems to be switching between these things based on what manufacturer they have to make them dice on time for release.

 Overread wrote:
My gods gw why are you pricing cavalry models so freakishly high all of a sudden?

Popularity deserves punishment?

 Azreal13 wrote:
On the subject of dice, those Slaanesh ones may be one of the first things I buy from GW in a while.

Are they still an arse to get hold of unless you sit hitting F5 for them to go live, or can I reasonably expect to order them from a LGS in my own time?

It depends on the system. Lord of the Rings dice you need to be F5'ing. Specialist Games dice are extremely random and can sell out in hours to still be around half a year later (the new Orlock dice sold out in a few days, the Goliath and Esher set were up for about nine months).

For 40k/AoS... if they're just simple, easily rollable dice they seem to last anywhere from an hour to a couple of days tops. The more weird ones (Lumineth barrels, Squig squishies, etc) tend to a fair bit longer. My guess is the Slaanesh dice will sell out very quickly - Daemons in both systems, Emperor's Children players, simple but good design, hyped release - but the DoK ones will probably last a fair bit longer. If I remember right the Tzeentch dice last time lasted about half an hour?

For LFGS' it depends on how big the store is. I notice Element and the like tend to sell through them within half an hour, probably due to a mixture of scalpers and low amounts sent to them, other stores you can pre-order without much issue. Some LGS' don't get (or don't order) them at all.

So if I were you I'd order them sooner rather than later just to be safe.

 Overread wrote:
My gods gw why are you pricing cavalry models so freakishly high all of a sudden?

Gw keeps ramping up prices with new sku's.

Welp, my plans to add a Slaanesh wing to my WHFB chaos armies are now no longer a thing. Woohee, those are some spicy prices. 10 quid for a Slaangor

Blissbarb are still cheaper than DoK Witch Aelves

Wow, are the archers going to be a box of 10 or a box of 20?

That seems to be the price of things like Kairic Acolytes or Mortek guard (55-60 usd for a box of twenty)

No way I'll buy infantry for $5usd a pop. Too much other good stuff out there.

 Gallahad wrote:
Wow, are the archers going to be a box of 10 or a box of 20?

That seems to be the price of things like Kairic Acolytes or Mortek guard (55-60 usd for a box of twenty)

No way I'll buy infantry for $5usd a pop. Too much other good stuff out there.

They’ll be 10. The photo shows 10. (Technically 11 with the brazier haemonculus thing).

Didn't see it posted, but here are some rules previews for DOK: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/02/08/join-a-sect-to-transform-how-your-daughters-of-khaine-fight/


Hmm, need to see the final USD prices, but that's approaching CHainrasp price.

 Thargrim wrote:
The DoK release seems about as phoned in as possible. Bad dice, no seperate melusai ironscale and just endless spells. They did the bare minimum for them, go figure.

In this case that is totally fine. DoK work well (too well, even) as an army, have a model range that fully supports multiple interpretations of their play style, and really just need some smoothing out of dud options. They aren't broken so there is no need to fix them, and I will support GWs move on that if it is indeed the case.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sasori wrote:
Readable Dice AND the Lord of pain is coming on release?

In all seriousness, this is a great release. I'm looking forward to getting my hands on a copy of the book.

Slaanesh loves getting a good release.

The Daughters of Khaine’s new endless spells are almost TOO bloody on Warhammer Community



From left to right: