I can't believe that smartwatches are in such demand, especially given Apple's failure in the market.
If I'm remembering correctly, the Pebble kickstarter was launched before any other major brands had released their watches. I believe Apple had officially announced a watch was coming but hadn't announced a release date. So the smart watch was still a really cool idea that very few people had actually used. The hype was real and a lot of people took the plunge with the kickstarter and accepted the wait time rather than wait for someone else to release a competitor. The timing of that campaign was absolutely perfect.
It's a pretty clever way to make your campaign unique and give the rabid backers something to keep them busy.
Of course it only works because of the huge good will built up and the massive amount of people meaning it was almost certain to get done.
I'm in at just the $50 at the moment, I'm really not sure if I actually want anything else just yet. The sci fi stuff and one or two of the pin ups are calling to me though
The game is funded beyond the creators expectations and he has two problems to deal with, first everything that would be unlocked is unlocked and it is not interesting at all revealing them all in a massive update and say nothing for the next month will harm more the campaign than help it.
Creating new content takes time and its not just up to him he needs quotes from the factory and the artists.
It is clear he runs a show to entertain the backers at the moment and also uses stalling tactics to keep people interested, twitch this, Mario that is is essential for him to get some breathing space.
I am amazed on how well he stages this show this level been beaten so soon might make him need to come up with something else soon though.
Chopxsticks wrote: "I promise an update a day" unless I decide to make a game not everyone can participate in and stop doing updates....
Indeed. A little diva-ish, perhaps?
Yeah, just a little!
Overall, it is a rather baffling way to run a Kickstarter and conduct oneself BUT...look how much money he's made already doing just that, so...who am I to...judge?
To me, it's rather reminiscent to how Exploding Kittens was run, with a lot of odd stuff on the side. Similar situation where the creator had way more money, and the problem was how to create good value for a $8M revenue against similar outlays.
Chopxsticks wrote: "I promise an update a day" unless I decide to make a game not everyone can participate in and stop doing updates....
Indeed. A little diva-ish, perhaps?
Yeah, just a little!
Overall, it is a rather baffling way to run a Kickstarter and conduct oneself BUT...look how much money he's made already doing just that, so...who am I to...judge?
To me, it's rather reminiscent to how Exploding Kittens was run, with a lot of odd stuff on the side. Similar situation where the creator had way more money, and the problem was how to create good value for a $8M revenue against similar outlays.
Hopefully he end product won't be as disappointing as Exploding Kittens. It's my most regretted Kickstarter.
On another note-
I'm still holding out hope for a male Dragon Sacrifice.
Alpharius wrote: If $35 is the price of the most regrettable KS you've even been involved in, consider yourself fortunate indeed!
Here in this campaign, will everything be available as an add-on in a post campaign PM?
Indeed. I more than doubled that much on RRT... :(
Adam has been a bit cagey about the PM. I think we'll get ONE shot at the PM, before the 2017 reprints come out, and that'll be that. I don't think he's going to have the multiple rounds of unlocks like he had before. Mainly, it's an issue of making things manageable and keeping them under control. Although if it's all Backerkit, vs KD store, it might be possible to do multiple rounds X months before each shipment. However, that hasn't been stated, so I would just plan on the one PM shot.
Alpharius wrote: If $35 is the price of the most regrettable KS you've even been involved in, consider yourself fortunate indeed!
Here in this campaign, will everything be available as an add-on in a post campaign PM?
Indeed. I more than doubled that much on RRT... :(
Adam has been a bit cagey about the PM. I think we'll get ONE shot at the PM, before the 2017 reprints come out, and that'll be that. I don't think he's going to have the multiple rounds of unlocks like he had before. Mainly, it's an issue of making things manageable and keeping them under control. Although if it's all Backerkit, vs KD store, it might be possible to do multiple rounds X months before each shipment. However, that hasn't been stated, so I would just plan on the one PM shot.
I think he had to open the pledge manager multiple times last time to fund the content he was working on, given they spent double the funding they raised.
Oldmike wrote: Poots is on the fence on letting people add stuff
I would be very upset if that turned out to be true.
As annoyed as I am with some of the handling of this campaign, I do still want to see it do well for all parties involved. Right now I'm in for probably a bit more than I probably should, but I was hoping to be able to add a number of things far down the road when my fiscal situation is a bit more able to spend on this.
I actually like what's going on in the Kickstarter. Then again I like the randomness of the game.
The big difference is that I am completely confident I'm going to get a good value for my purchase. I've not been letdown yet by any of my purchases or the last Kickstarter. Yes I would have liked to have seen the Lantern Festival but I got a full refund- I was taken care of.
In the beginning I was a little worried about the non traditional nature of the "Stretch goals" but now I think it's fun. I look forward to my daily e-mail rolls!
A pic from the Mario Maker level in case anyone missed it above. Have to say am loving this KS, if nothing else it's a great deal of fun reading through each update, obviously Poots' imagination runs beyond just the world of KD itself
A mini update from last night
Update #15
Dec 6 2016
That's it? I Only got to nap for 2 hours?
Hmmm...
I should have said.. A BACKER or BAKCER has to beat it! lol
Congrats everyone!
+1 Unplanned Reward.
Time to start planning that! We will return to our normal updates tomorrow.
Yes, that level was quite well designed on par with the punishing "you must get everything right" mentality of the old platformers, including using the secrets you never knew they existed.
It is a showcase of his game design skills to be honest.
Until Kingdom Death 1 - 1 is beaten by someone other then myself or my brother (or I get tired of waiting). There will be no more updates and no more reveals.
And yet he's over $7M now, so I guess this works for a lot of people...
I see he now has an add ons-only pledge. Does the $5 pledge yield any advantage over piggybacking on someone else's pledge? I'd still have to pay the wave shipping and the $2 per expansion, right?
Just throwing this out there, but is there anyone interested in just the rules (and tiles, chits, cards, etc.) of the base game who wants to split the cost 50/50ish, you get the paper and I get the plastic?
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I see he now has an add ons-only pledge. Does the $5 pledge yield any advantage over piggybacking on someone else's pledge? I'd still have to pay the wave shipping and the $2 per expansion, right?
Just throwing this out there, but is there anyone interested in just the rules (and tiles, chits, cards, etc.) of the base game who wants to split the cost 50/50ish, you get the paper and I get the plastic?
your own pledge means no risk of who ever you piggybacked with vanishing/giving up the hobby/dying (especially important if you decide on something that ends up shipping in 2020), and you'll get any updates direct without having to remember to look so you'll be more likely to know what's going on
as to wave shipping it's all going to depend on when whatever you decide you want ships (if its just some pinups it will hopefully be all at once)
I have pledged for the "Ancient Gold Lantern" (sooner delivery and after a quick google prices are much lower than retail) but some things like the "Frog Dog" and the survivors that come with it have got my interest.
Do I just look at the price of the amphibious canine and add it to my current pledge, or do I pledge again with the amount needed?
Just add the extra cost to your existing pledge don't change level. Hit the manage button then change your pledge scroll down to current reward if you want Frogdog change the pledge amount to $800 ($750 + $50) and continue
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I see he now has an add ons-only pledge. Does the $5 pledge yield any advantage over piggybacking on someone else's pledge? I'd still have to pay the wave shipping and the $2 per expansion, right?
Just throwing this out there, but is there anyone interested in just the rules (and tiles, chits, cards, etc.) of the base game who wants to split the cost 50/50ish, you get the paper and I get the plastic?
Administratively, there's no issue if somebody moves out of area.
Has anybody played this game through to the end? Is it worth it? Right now it looks like a lot of fun, but is it the kind of fun that lasts through to the end or is it something that begins to get tedious and repetitive?
The game play from what I have seen is pretty interesting and the idea is great. But I have not played a game or spent more than a few hours watching it some people play.
I haven't play it through to the end but I have made it roughly halfway several times (mostly just due to the difficulty of getting people together) and it's still fun.
A large part of that is the randomness of events (settlement and hunt events) can really change things up--especially settlement as those are usually positive while hunt are usually negative. The creature fights are always really fun because the AI decks don't ever use all the possible cards available when building them so fights against the same creature can be quite different based off of what they'll do in combination with the hit location cards.
So if a high amount of randomness is something that doesn't bother you, and you don't mind the price, I'd say it's worth it.
Ok that sounds fine by me. Just checking because I havent spent 750 dollars before shipping on a game since my 40k days. Gotta make sure it's worth it.
Swastakowey wrote: Has anybody played this game through to the end? Is it worth it? Right now it looks like a lot of fun, but is it the kind of fun that lasts through to the end or is it something that begins to get tedious and repetitive?
The game play from what I have seen is pretty interesting and the idea is great. But I have not played a game or spent more than a few hours watching it some people play.
I've played it through a few times, the core is definitely worth at least 100 hours of gameplay (like 2-4 campaigns, depending on how far you get), IDK if I'd jump in for $800 at this point, but I'd certainly recommend the core and 2-4 expansions if you like sprawling campaigns and don't mind some random.
Look above the right wing on the right one-- you can see where they incompletely erased the staff.
Either it's being revised, or like the twins, one has a staff and the other doesn't and these are the sketches of two similar monsters. Speculation, of course.
It's the Satan final form I think, I don't think it's two models, he hadn't finished the design so I'm guessing the second one is a refinement of the first.
Do we have the ability to add to our pledge after the campaign ends? There's quite a bit i'm interested in from this kickstarter and financially it would work out a lot better for me If I could pay some of it 30 days from now when the kickstarter ends and then the rest in the months that proceed that.... rather than all in one lump sum.
From what's been said there will probably be a single chance to add in money whenever the PM opens (but no guarantees)
Adam has basically said he doesn't want to go down the road of repeatedly allowing it as he did previously (probably because they company needed the money)
(but I could very well see similar happening again..... fingers crossed for it as long as it doesn't come with a massive overspend this time as I hope to be able to do just the same)
Allright, getting official here: Core Games & Upgrade Packs will not be available as separate add ons. Under no circumstance will we combine pledges in the post campaign pledge manager. Unless it appears on the add-on list, or we announce that something is an add-on in an update, it cannot be added as an add-on. I apologize If I have caused any confusion in the past. I reserve the right to change my mind as the campaign continues.
It's understandable this way he knows exactly how many core games have to be ordered as soon as the KS ends and get them done straight away rather than waiting for a PM to close.
He seems to be aiming to get them shipped as close to wave 1 as possible. He has said that Core games will ship on their own as the box is to big and heavy to add anything else to it so what ever happens it will be 2 lots of shipping and 2 sets of fees.
“
Also Formally added a wave 2 for current expansions. I am being conservative with the estimate. MY HOPE is that they also ship summer 2017.
Adam Poots, Kingdom Death wrote:Allright, getting official here: Core Games & Upgrade Packs will not be available as separate add ons. Under no circumstance will we combine pledges in the post campaign pledge manager. Unless it appears on the add-on list, or we announce that something is an add-on in an update, it cannot be added as an add-on. I apologize If I have caused any confusion in the past. I reserve the right to change my mind as the campaign continues.
That seems totally reasonable. He needs control over the KS that he didn't have in the first go. Especially as he obviously intends to push Core 1.5 and Upgrade Packs out ASAP. He's obviously aware that shipping is going to be a mess, so keeping it simple (i.e. 1 item per label) makes it smoother.
Alpharius wrote: Will the 'existing expansions' ship in 2017 as well?
I suppose it depends on how much work is needed to bring them up to date with 1.5. Some won't need anything while others may need a book or cards reworked.
Also Formally added a wave 2 for current expansions. I am being conservative with the estimate. MY HOPE is that they also ship summer 2017.
Dec 9 2016 on Kingdom Death: Monster 1.5
.....I am actually ok with having the upgrade pack as an add-on. Not so much the core game though. I am just trying to figure out how useful that would really be?
Dec 8 2016 on Kingdom Death: Monster 1.5
Allright I will think about it some more. For now, until its formally added to the add on menu or advanced in an update. It's not available.
Next update, introducing an artist who presumably makes loads of small cottages or is a robot living in one
Gambler's Chest Roll #10, Changelog Update Art Innovations, New Pinup and a teaser, teaser update!
WE ARE GOING OUT OF ORDER TODAY! PINUP REVEAL FIRST!!!!!
Yah!!!
Male Pinups
I wanted to take a moment to sincerely thank the artists whom have worked on Male Pinups for Kingdom Death. Pinup artwork can be a very personal thing for artists and it takes a lot of creative courage to be comfortable presenting it to new fans. I am tremendously thankful, humbled and very proud that we are able to add these pieces of fantastic artwork to our collective whole.
HamletMachine
The Male Pinup Screaming God Armor, was created by the super talented HamletMachine. HamletMachine's style is utterly fantastic and in my humble opinion, in the genre it is peerless, expressive, and powerful.
If you enjoy HamletMachine's work you need to go read / buy everything. HamletMachine is an independent, self-published, crazy hard working artist. Check out the Starfighter comic here. WARNING NSFW NSFW I MEAN IT!!
Follow on twitter for amazing new art all the time.
Directly @HamletMachine,
Thank you. Thanks so much for giving us a part of yourself. It's fething awesome and you need to know how much I cherish it. On behalf of Anna and myself, getting to work with you amidst the swirling chaos this kickstarter has been, was / is amazing! When I am done with this update, I am going to print that badass babe and slap him right on my wall!!
Woo! Now unto our changelog update!
For our new players, you might not understand how huge these changes are since you haven't played the original version! After a lot of play-testing, all I can say is that the changes are awesome. Your new experiences will be better, having been built on a mountain of dead survivors before it! lol
The narrative armors looks better and better, and the base variety is making me so happy. I don't think those bugs are part of the base, so even better.
I'm glad there's still nothing I really want in the gambler's chest, and I hope it stays that way. The only thing I really care about is the "advanced" rule book, so hopefully that will someday be available separately. But I can certainly live without it. No way it's worth $100.
I sent a message asking if the advanced rules would ever be available separately, and here is the reply from Adam:
No, its all like one big crazy integrated set!
That's disappointing. There isn't really enough game content to be worth anywhere near $100, and I don't want all the narrative miniatures that I mostly won't use. Maybe the'll end up adding more game content before the end to give it more in game value for the price.
My thought on the Gambler's box is that we may see all these narrative sculpts eventually replacing the core box armor sets in some future printing of the game.
Think about it- the pinups and plastic kits require a lot less parts, take up a lot less space, and require much less plastic to produce. You also aren't left with leftover unused pieces if you go the narrative route rather than kits with all kinds of bonus parts.
If I remember correctly, outside of the 4 starters all the other armor sets are on their own sprues, completely unrelated to the monsters that are required to play.
Plus I think once we've got a male and female version of all the core armor sets, we may end up seeing something more gameplay related in that box.
Then again Adam has said the armor kits are a big part of the game and aren't going anywhere, and he's said they would show up separately, so who knows? Maybe we'll see "ancient" sets just like Frogdog has upgraded versions of his armor?
Also, the front page is finally cleaned up and updated!
Gambler's Chest Contents (so far)-
1xAdvanced Rulebook (Includes Philosophy of Death)
12xMiniatures
2xPromo Gear Cards
3xRare Gear Cards
2xGear Cards
1xArt Card
1xSecret Fighting Art
2xFighting Arts
1xAdvanced Fighting Art
4xPhilosophy Cards
1xSettlement Event
2xAdvanced Disorders
1xHunt Event
Plus the rest of the reveals which will most assuredly come with more gear/events/fighting arts. At what point will the Gambler's box become worth it to you?
Albino Squirrel wrote: I sent a message asking if the advanced rules would ever be available separately, and here is the reply from Adam:
No, its all like one big crazy integrated set!
That's disappointing. There isn't really enough game content to be worth anywhere near $100, and I don't want all the narrative miniatures that I mostly won't use. Maybe the'll end up adding more game content before the end to give it more in game value for the price.
Are we sure he didn't mean that the advanced rules wouldn't be available separately during the Kickstarter? That way, they don't have to set aside some books for the box set and some for a la carte purchases. The general theme of this campaign has been "less chaos," so it makes sense to keep it contained for now and sell an "advanced rules" book by itself later at retail.
Then again, maybe not. The Philosophy of Death system is probably the biggest change to the game, and I don't recall seeing any philosophy cards outside of the Gambler's Box. Maybe it's best to think of it as the "Advanced Rules Expansion," like the standard monster-centric expansions.
IIRC the green knight armour is something for which you are required to kill no less than three different knights: Lion, Dungbeetle and Flower. Then you need to get lucky on the drops and hope that they drop the required tokens, which can then be forged into the suit of armour, sword and shield.
edit.
Green Faulds (waist): Needs a couple Dung Beetle Knight Resources, a Flower Knight resource, and Gormite. You need to have the Choreia (Forbidden Dance consequence, iirc) to build it.
Griswaldo (sword): You need a rare gorm item, gormite, a rare gear drop from the Dung Beetle Knight, and one iron. You need to have a survivor with a specific Flower Knight secret fighting art and you need a late game gorm innovation to build it.
Fetorsaurus (shield): You need the beacon shield, a Dung Beetle Knight resource, a Flower Knight Resource, and on of the harder to get gorm potions. You also need the Blacksmith settlement location.
Green Helm: Need a Dung Beetle Knight resource, a rare Dung Beetle Knight resource, and a specific Knight Badge. Also need to have a specific legendary monster on your quarry list.
Green Gloves (hands): Need a specific piece of gear from the Manhunter expansion, a piece of iron, and a rare Gorm resource. Also need a specific advanced core game innovation and a specific Gorm innovation to craft.
Green Plate (chest): Need a piece of rare gear from the Lion Knight, two iron, three leather, and a specific dung beetle knight resource. Need a Gorm innovation to craft.
Green Boots (feet): Need an iron, a specific knight badge, a piece of hard to get gear from the Dung Beetle Knight expansion, and a bunch of bone. Also need the forbidden dance innovation.
Alpharius wrote: Can someone with a better memory than me help me out?
Where does the Green Knight armor kit reside?
And, who do you have to kill to make it?
The Flower Knight and...?
Thanks!
It's its own $25 (IIRC) kit, takes the 3 knights, a gorm special resource, and a spider innovation IIRC.
Personally, I think it's a silly goal, never heard of anyone getting it without abusing the NG+ mechanic, and it's only theoretically possible with basically perfect luck in one run.
If you're considering getting it, I'd recommend against. It's basically like the lantern armor turned up to 11-- crazy bonuses that just aren't worth it for the hoops. Way better than lantern, but not worth it IMHO.
Alpharius wrote: Can someone with a better memory than me help me out?
Where does the Green Knight armor kit reside?
And, who do you have to kill to make it?
The Flower Knight and...?
Thanks!
It's its own $25 (IIRC) kit, takes the 3 knights, a gorm special resource, and a spider innovation IIRC.
Personally, I think it's a silly goal, never heard of anyone getting it without abusing the NG+ mechanic, and it's only theoretically possible with basically perfect luck in one run.
If you're considering getting it, I'd recommend against. It's basically like the lantern armor turned up to 11-- crazy bonuses that just aren't worth it for the hoops. Way better than lantern, but not worth it IMHO.
This is the truth, I have tried it multiple times and never come close, there is just too much RNG , the models look cool assembled in the armor though.
Will wait to see what else turns up in the Gambler's box before deciding on it.
$100 isn't that much in hobby money (even paying for it with the Brexit Peso) and I get the feeling this is the kind of game that would benefit from you going mental with, in terms of a collection.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: What's the NG+ mechanic? It was always my understanding that each settlement/campaign was a one-off?
There are at least 2 ways of getting a campaign reset that's been referred to as a NG+ even though it isn't quite one, one of which can be gamed with a bit of effort.
Gambler's Chest Contents (so far)-
1xAdvanced Rulebook (Includes Philosophy of Death)
12xMiniatures
2xPromo Gear Cards
3xRare Gear Cards
2xGear Cards
1xArt Card
1xSecret Fighting Art
2xFighting Arts
1xAdvanced Fighting Art
4xPhilosophy Cards
1xSettlement Event
2xAdvanced Disorders
1xHunt Event
Plus the rest of the reveals which will most assuredly come with more gear/events/fighting arts. At what point will the Gambler's box become worth it to you?
Was that a rhetorical question?
The Gamblers Chest will become worth it to me when it contains figures that I need to own, at the moment none of the contents are calling to me.
It's like a collection of nice-but-not-quite-viable-as-stand-alone figures bundled with some add on rules that we don't know much about (or perhaps we do and I just haven't been keeping up on current events).
I'm sure that there are loads of other people who think that it's a bargain (and that Poots is an artist ), fair play to them, but for me something like the Screaming God expansion is a better example of value.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: What's the NG+ mechanic? It was always my understanding that each settlement/campaign was a one-off?
There are at least 2 ways of getting a campaign reset that's been referred to as a NG+ even though it isn't quite one, one of which can be gamed with a bit of effort.
edit: typo
Interesting. I'm actually a big fan. I think it would be a fun reward to surviving a campaign to see a "paths less travelled" less hardcore way of trying out different hunts, etc. I like persistence whenever possible in games. I take it from your description though that it isnt' meant to be something most players see outside of very specific events?
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Interesting. I'm actually a big fan. I think it would be a fun reward to surviving a campaign to see a "paths less travelled" less hardcore way of trying out different hunts, etc. I like persistence whenever possible in games. I take it from your description though that it isnt' meant to be something most players see outside of very specific events?
Yeah, one event is pretty uncommon (1/20 of the event, then 1/3 of the result that gives a NG+ option if you meet the requirements, or so, odds x 20+ session possibilities), the other requires a fairly dangerous fight and isn't all that likely.
My group's played a lot (think close to 200 sessions), think we've had 4 NG+ campaigns. They tend to be a lot of fun, but without actually increasing the difficulty, it tends to mean that you just rampage through the 1st half of the game or so, and kind of run out of things to do, if yyou've played it right. We've had a couple campaigns where we realized we started off wrong, so a NG+ was a fun option to try again with a faster start, but it's not anything very necessary unless you're trying for something crazy like the green armor.
It sounds like the First Hero expansion will allow a more refined NG+ option, though, which I'm definitely looking forward to.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: My thought on the Gambler's box is that we may see all these narrative sculpts eventually replacing the core box armor sets in some future printing of the game.
I kinda wish that Adam had gone with narrative survivors from the beginning, but it appears there hadn't been enough long-term campaign gameplay to validate it as the correct approach. The gear is almost impossible to WYSIWYG over the course of a campaign, and the individual survivors are secondary to the settlement itself. Plus the narrative survivors have posing that isn't as easily captured in the armor sets. And no smooth backs.
I think that KD:M 2.0 will see narrative sculpts replace the armor sets, with armor sets as an option for those who really like to convert.
Allright, getting official here: Core Games & Upgrade Packs will not be available as separate add ons. Under no circumstance will we combine pledges in the post campaign pledge manager. Unless it appears on the add-on list, or we announce that something is an add-on in an update, it cannot be added as an add-on. I apologize If I have caused any confusion in the past. I reserve the right to change my mind as the campaign continues.
Does that answer the questions?
Yeah, I get the no combining shipping for multiple pledges thing. I didn't try to pledge for more than one so I can't recall if it was allowed or not (I'm thinking not). If not, I guarantee many of those satan pledges were from people speculating on the secondary market for these (future ebay scalpers) who created throw-away KS accounts to get multiple sets and cash in when these things are sold out/hard to find again.
I saw an article about a lady who bought up over $20K worth of those 'Hatchimals' for, in many cases, twice retail on ebay in order to re-sell them back through eBay at a x4 markup and eBay blocked her from listing them due to the potential of fraud (offering for auction and taking someones money for an item you don't even have). I guess in a truly free market, it's not technically against the law...but it's pretty dirty. I almost feel like it should have been the 11th commandment... "thou shalt not take gross financial advantage of thy neighbor through scalping"
Rambling here, but I'm wondering what the demand for KD:M will really be after this KS. We have 3x as many backers with 30 day still remaining. I've seen it with other games, typically high-priced ones. The first owners are *really* enthusiastic about the game, but they're self-selected because of the high cost of the (base) game, or its narrow niche (one of the highest rated BGG games is a two-player cold war card game). The next owners are more mainstream, so are a better representation of the typical gaming audience and, inevitably, the overall rating of the game goes down. And, of course, KS preys on FOMO, so, while $250 is expensive for a boardgame, it's not too difficult an amount for a KS backer.. For a KS game, I'm reading more comments about selling off the miniatures, but, with more copies available and a limited demand for the miniatures (?), I'm wondering how much money resellers can really make here. Poots himself said he'd rather sell via his retail website than use KS, so retail copies will be available. Certainly no exclusives were announced during the KD:M KS. Selling enough to pay for your pledge would be about right (that's the going rate for CMON KS) but dunno about much else. Do the miniatures-only purchasers collect the miniatures, or do they pick individual miniatures for painting, or what?
$7.3M Gambler's Chest Roll #11, LETS DOUBLE OUR PINUPS TODAY!
Video I cannot embed were the murderer "murders" gambler chest roll 97
NO WORDS TODAY!!!!!!
Another stalling update personally this one left me unimpressed, understandable and it raises the comments witch keep the interest of everybody alive, Poots said he will explain tomorrow and the comments section has turned to a really toxic place, I understand (again) what he does, but such updates it will get boring soon, they still have strong effect on the community though.
We know from today that a duplicate warrants a reroll. With 29 days left in the campaign and 18 spaces possible in the Gambler's Chest, it was inevitable that this would get rolled at some time.
It's more fun to just stand around for the ride.
The comments are indeed a horrible place, but it's to be expected with this campaign having so many backers. There's bound to be a vocal few getting everyone riled up over the most minor issues.
He needed to re roll the dice and the re roll was the murdered so instead of re rolling the dice again he "murdered" the slot beneath it.
Essentially he stalled the gamblers reveal for one more day, giving more time to the contents.
And some people freaked out thinking the slot under the gambler is forever lost.
To be fair he probably planned for 1 or 2 million above the founding he got last time and all the stretch goals and show he had planned are done so he puts up a show to entertain the backers for 30 more days to keep them interested and allow him to work the logistics of the monster (pun semi intended) he has to deliver, plus maybe some new stuff he never dreamed of having enouph money to attempt.
I'm a bit bored with the campaign at the moment, but I expect it will get better in another week or two. I mean, really, it's going to be at least two years before I see anything from this campaign, probably three until everything is out... that's a long time to be impatient.
PsychoticStorm wrote: He needed to re roll the dice and the re roll was the murdered so instead of re rolling the dice again he "murdered" the slot beneath it.
Essentially he stalled the gamblers reveal for one more day, giving more time to the contents.
And some people freaked out thinking the slot under the gambler is forever lost.
To be fair he probably planned for 1 or 2 million above the founding he got last time and all the stretch goals and show he had planned are done so he puts up a show to entertain the backers for 30 more days to keep them interested and allow him to work the logistics of the monster (pun semi intended) he has to deliver, plus maybe some new stuff he never dreamed of having enouph money to attempt.
Thanks for the info
I'm looking forward to the rest of the Gambler's Chest reveals, waiting to see which update will be the one that eventually drags me in (it's bound to happen eventually!).
Fraggle wrote: That final image on the update looks like a big cat, with the padlocks as eyes... chewing on something. Maybe I need to stop playing magic eye!
Is it meant to be an extra expansion in addition to the Satan true form?
I think that's meant to be true satan it's the only unplanned expansion if you take Poots word for it the next maybe if he hits 9mill or so
I was looking through the internet for images of KD's Candy and Cola to see how people did theirs and I seem to be the only one who got Cola attached correctly to Candy's arm. Even the people at vibrantlantern.com got it wrong. Is it really that hard?
Fraggle wrote: That final image on the update looks like a big cat, with the padlocks as eyes... chewing on something. Maybe I need to stop playing magic eye!
Is it meant to be an extra expansion in addition to the Satan true form?
I think that's meant to be true satan it's the only unplanned expansion if you take Poots word for it the next maybe if he hits 9mill or so
Okay. big cat, then.
Male pinup comments are worth reading. Nice to see the ladies say "Hubba hubba" for a change.
Yes, mostly, so far beyond the first Narrative sculpt (assuming we talk about Gamblers chest) all have something bundled with them, a weapon, a fighting stance, a disorder, the narrative sculpts from expansions have the gear the expansion provides.
Poots in the KD comments wrote:Just a quick fair warning. Waiting on a quote to see if I can expand upon a yet to be revealed item in the gambler's chest. If I can push it through, I might have to increase the cost of the "Add-On Gambler's Chest." These are all just maybes, since I'd prefer not to mess with it as it will lead to some confusion.
In case anyone was thinking of downgrading pledge and adding on gamblers chest; might want to hold off for now.
Presumably the cost of the Gambler's Chest would only rise if selected as an add-on in the pledge manager, the price of pledges which contain the Gambler's Chest (such as the Silver Lantern pledge) would not increase?
Breotan wrote: I was looking through the internet for images of KD's Candy and Cola to see how people did theirs and I seem to be the only one who got Cola attached correctly to Candy's arm. Even the people at vibrantlantern.com got it wrong. Is it really that hard?
Umm, is there a specific spot it goes? I don't remember any nubs or w/e that suggested a precise location.
Also, no, don't trust vibrantlantern. That site got known since it was prolific, not since it was accurate or reliable.
Re: the update, so...
For add-on promo models for the 1st KS, their rules were too expensive for them to cover, and incorporating them into a campaign was too much work, so they got reduced to gear... but the first add-on promo model in the 2nd consists of... extra rules and incorporating them into the campaign?
Gotta' say, if they don't do a (positive) take-back on that card add-on pack, I'm gonna' be pretty miffed.
The update says that "Wanderers" of which this new promo is only one example of, are already part of the new advanced rulebook (IE the Gamblers Chest), that they just haven't elaborated on yet.
As such, the bulk of Candy/Cola's "rules" will be in that book and she just need a couple cards with the model.
The same could be said for the old promo models' scenarios if done succinctly. Most could probably be done as 3-5 cards.
But as these are an entirely new game mechanic, we don't know how reasonable it is. For all we know, Wanderers are much easier to condense down to two cards? Leave it to Poots to give us a piece for a new game mechanic, without actually knowing that it is per se, as of yet. :-p
I was saying that, if it's practical to make a new generation of campaign-altering promos, it should be practical to actually uphold the promised previous generation of campaign-altering promos, in a form greater than a few gear cards.
Such as Candy and Cola, the first KS had several crossover figures from other Kickstarters that were going at the time. I suggested earlier that they might look into a crossover figure from Shadows of Brimstone, maybe one of the Oriental adventurers, or a cowboy one. There are several other KS's going on that are pretty successful, and to keep with the Original thought, to add on some variety and not be reaching too deep for added content.
I am very interested in the Wanderer rules for other figures. I'd have thought though that the Soda pop figure would have tooled up some gear by year 3 to be just be armed with a... High heel
Additionally, I am not a real fan of the ridiculous shoes either, there seems to be a chain there that would have been perfectly acceptable as a weapon, not to mention a broken bottle, or a bag of shattered glass. Not a fan of high heels, that would have been one of the first things turned into a decent punching weapon, along with that little critter who will end up as a great little add on for resources as well..
I think it's supposed to resemble the white speaker knife, but, agreed, it's not a very reasonable weapon.
Also, in general, suspension of disbelief is rather stretched that high heels would have been invented in a setting literally made out of extremely uneven stone, even beyond the silliness of fighting in them under normal circumstances..
If the gamblers chest goes up, I may drop it in lieu of expansions. The models in it are cool but I think I'll get more gaming value out of expansions. I may do that anyway depending on what other expansions come out.
It is a debate, he may not up the cost but limit it to one per backer.
It seems experience shows in this one and scalpers buying multiples of a good deal seems to have impacted his company in the past and he wants to avoid it.
Sounds logical to me.
Yes, its not your typical CMON everything is already done and we do not care about the cost campaign.
From the sound of things, the price was only going to go up if some currently unknown item he is waiting for a quote on ends up included or not.
For all we know, this unknown could very well be more gameplay content.
I honestly wouldn't bother messing with a limited pledge until the last few days, as there's no way to know what you're going to get currently. Other than more, obviously.
Undead_Love-Machine wrote: Presumably the cost of the Gambler's Chest would only rise if selected as an add-on in the pledge manager, the price of pledges which contain the Gambler's Chest (such as the Silver Lantern pledge) would not increase?
Yeah. The Silver Lantern, etc. are all bundled up, so that's fixed. All the more reason to stand pat until January.
So in all probability Gabler's chest will not change in price, he is debating though if he will limit it to one per account or have additional Gamblers chests const more.
I am assuming he tries to make Gamblers Chest as affordable as he can, but this impacts him if scalpers buy many multiples to profit from ebay.
To be fair, not everybody is going to want all of the models in the GC, so eBay is a reasonable answer. That's no scalping. With the sheer number of backers, I expect a fair number of items to hit.
If he wants to limit it, then capping things at 1 per address is probably the best answer.
____
I, for one, intend to eBay off some undetermined number of items from my GC if I don't like them. The SF models, for example.
I believe he does not care much if people sell parts of their pledge on ebay, I feel he fears the few who will buy 10 or 20 Gabler's Box solely to sell them on ebay.
Probably the more he produces the more it costs him and probably the numbers are not enouph to gain the benefit of mass production.
Hold on there. Adam is committed to producing at least 15,000 copies of the Gambler's Chest (based on having that may bakcers in hand). He's probably going to be committed to something closer to 20,000 units when the campaign closes, with another 5,000 units for stock / retail. 25,000 units is mass production.
What he doesn't want to do is to give up profit on the subsequent sales, and that is a fair concern.
But at least he's going to meet minimum volumes for all product and get to a good per-unit price. If he cuts 30 tools, at $10k each, that's only $300k. Spread across 20,000 bakcers, and it's only $15/$90 each. Not a bad ratio, where his original plan would have split that same $300k across 10k bakcers.
Basically, he's got $10-20 extra cash that he can inject into the Gambler's Chest. Bundling an Expansion ($30-ish) into the GC means he's got a $10-15 hole that he needs to address if he opens the GC up as an unlimited add-on.
If I were Adam, I'd bump additional GCs to $125 and let people order as many as they like, while still limiting pledges to 1 per address.
PsychoticStorm wrote: I believe he does not care much if people sell parts of their pledge on ebay, I feel he fears the few who will buy 10 or 20 Gabler's Box solely to sell them on ebay.
Probably the more he produces the more it costs him and probably the numbers are not enouph to gain the benefit of mass production.
Most of the Gambler's Chest contents are plastic figures, right? After the initial investment in tooling the individual plastic sprues costs peanuts to produce, meaning that the more he produces the higher his profit margins will be.
My guess is that the Gambler's Chest is where the King is going to end up (but not the rest of the planned Lantern Festival bits) and those extra sprues are what he's concerned with cost wise.
There's also the artwork and print, and my sense is that quality print and development is non-trivial. Still, his allocated development cost per item should have been roughly halved, so there will be room to do something.
I'm not sure the King fits in the GC, but the Great Game Hunters would be a good fit.
Besides volume-wise, he'll have to pop more plastic - I doubt he popped the necessary 25k units right off the bat.
PsychoticStorm wrote: Probably the more he produces the more it costs him and probably the numbers are not enouph to gain the benefit of mass production.
I've never heard of anything like this in any work I've ever done in bulk: prices always go down when you produce in bulk: initial setup cost is mitigated over more product; initial development is mitigated by the larger volume (i.e. $10,000 development spread across 1,000 units costs more per than over 2,000) the factories want to incentivise you buying more; you can sell it for higher profit margins, and having worked very small bulk runs, I can assure you, with almost 15k backers, that's plenty bulky enough. The only downside I've ever heard of for working in bulk is if a company can't handle the volume, but that's one where they'll accommodate the work.
PsychoticStorm wrote: Probably the more he produces the more it costs him and probably the numbers are not enouph to gain the benefit of mass production.
I've never heard of anything like this in any work I've ever done in bulk: prices always go down when you produce in bulk: initial setup cost is mitigated over more product; initial development is mitigated by the larger volume (i.e. $10,000 development spread across 1,000 units costs more per than over 2,000) the factories want to incentivise you buying more; you can sell it for higher profit margins, and having worked very small bulk runs, I can assure you, with almost 15k backers, that's plenty bulky enough. The only downside I've ever heard of for working in bulk is if a company can't handle the volume, but that's one where they'll accommodate the work.
Same here, in my experience, and doubly so for anything in plastic.
My assumption is he may do the gamblers chest close to the cost and adding a big thing to it would tip him over that.
He might be planning to shoulder a small extra cost, but be afraid that people buying additional just to sell to ebay would increase the gap too much for him to do so.
Yes, buying (or producing) in bulk usually lowers the cost the question is always when this happens, in plastics production is it in the thousands, the tens of thousands, or the hundreds of thousands? he may understandably not have enouph bulk to hit a tier that would make manufacturing cheaper for him, or he could be afraid that too much stock would cause him too much inventory to be taxed over the years, or something else entirely.
On his comments where he is reserved it is evident he fears that the bundles if left unchecked will "sink his battleship" so maybe the bundles are indeed too much of a good deal and they must be kept in check.
Adding stuff to bundles (adding production costs without increasing prices) is not at all the same as increasing volume (keeping constant or decreasing production costs without decreasing prices).
Those are extremely different concepts that you seem to be using interchangeably.
Current round of Adam vs Math has been complete! I am ready to resume the party. During the course of the campaign, there will be NO change to the Gambler's Chest!
I doubt folks will be buying to resell... they would be fools. I pledged for the origional zombicide, of which pledges have sold for over $1000. However, they raised only a couple hundred thousand and had a handfull of backers (very small amount made... not many in circulation). If you look at season 3 or black plague, each promo sells for $10 or under, compared to season 1's $50-$200 each. This is because there are thousands upon thousands of promos in circulation... they are easy to get and not very rare.
If he raises over 7 million and has 15k backers worldwide, most of those who want the game will have already bought it. Pledging a couple hundred bucks to get a gamblers pledge will get someone almost 0 profit... esp with Chinese recasters printing kingsom death pinups and the first kickstarter promos. I forsee the market being flooded with folks needing out of their pledges, tired of waiting, buying to resell, etc.
It will be a buyers market... not a sellers market.
455_PWR wrote: I doubt folks will be buying to resell... they would be fools. I pledged for the origional zombicide, of which pledges have sold for over $1000. However, they raised only a couple hundred thousand and had a handfull of backers (very small amount made... not many in circulation). If you look at season 3 or black plague, each promo sells for $10 or under, compared to season 1's $50-$200 each. This is because there are thousands upon thousands of promos in circulation... they are easy to get and not very rare.
If he raises over 7 million and has 15k backers worldwide, most of those who want the game will have already bought it. Pledging a couple hundred bucks to get a gamblers pledge will get someone almost 0 profit... esp with Chinese recasters printing kingsom death pinups and the first kickstarter promos. I forsee the market being flooded with folks needing out of their pledges, tired of waiting, buying to resell, etc.
It will be a buyers market... not a sellers market.
Though, to be fair... those Chinese knock-offs presumably don't come with any relevant gear, etc... cards, which a completist would argue contains the true value.
$7.4M - Gambler's Chest Roll #13, Welcome the Face Stealing Oblivion Mosquito, MAN HUNTER MAKES ITS RETURN!
Wooo!!! Gonna go look at XMAS decorations now! I wanted to say more in the update, but time just gets eaten up so fast!
Gambler's Chest Official Word
There will be no changes to its price during the campaign. I made the math work, thanks to everyone for being supportive!
The Mad & Mighty Srtiker is my favourite figure from the Gambler's Chest so far, but it would look much better without the rings on its blade.
Mosquito monster is a great concept, except for the hands...I've never understood the whole KD "hands" fetish, they seem to pop up on most (or all?) of the monsters. Is anyone able to explain it?
Sometimes they just look like washing up gloves, especially on the Sunstalker.
Aww I hope not. I hate the dick-monster concept and that mosquito monster looks awesome. I would be somewhat okay with my kids seeing that on my shelf...
Clanan wrote: Aww I hope not. I hate the dick-monster concept and that mosquito monster looks awesome. I would be somewhat okay with my kids seeing that on my shelf...
There's really not a lot about KD's monsters that you would be OK with your kids seeing, is there?
That thing's back end face is a droll meme waiting to happen.
So, someone brought up Chinese recasters, which surprised me at first. I've never even considered that there might be a market for such a thing, what with the game's high entry cost keeping out the buy-to-win types and with collectors tending to prize original productions. But then I read the rumor that the King model, the mini that many backers pledged $45 plus shipping to get and patiently waited years for, might only become available as part of the Gambler's Chest...and suddenly the Chinese recasters quip made sense.
Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
Mosquito monster is a great concept, except for the hands...I've never understood the whole KD "hands" fetish, they seem to pop up on most (or all?) of the monsters. Is anyone able to explain it?
Sometimes they just look like washing up gloves, especially on the Sunstalker.
spiralingcadaver wrote:Love machine, no, there's nothing specific about it in the setting, just an aesthetic/obsession.
They're parasites. Some monsters drop them as resources.
The parasites thing is not consistent AFAIK, just one had them, but, for instance, the antelope's are part of one of its moods only. I don't believe there's a unifying reason other than aesthetic.
I really like the Oblivion Mosquito, and the armour designs are amazing. Depending on how much I get for Christmas I think I'm gonna drop the gamblers chest. My pledge keeps creeping up every time there's a new expansion and I won't be able to afford everything!
So, someone brought up Chinese recasters, which surprised me at first. I've never even considered that there might be a market for such a thing, what with the game's high entry cost keeping out the buy-to-win types and with collectors tending to prize original productions. But then I read the rumor that the King model, the mini that many backers pledged $45 plus shipping to get and patiently waited years for, might only become available as part of the Gambler's Chest...and suddenly the Chinese recasters quip made sense.
There actually seemed to be more of them floating about than the Horus Heresy forgeworld armours at one point, which tells you something!
So, someone brought up Chinese recasters, which surprised me at first. I've never even considered that there might be a market for such a thing, what with the game's high entry cost keeping out the buy-to-win types and with collectors tending to prize original productions. But then I read the rumor that the King model, the mini that many backers pledged $45 plus shipping to get and patiently waited years for, might only become available as part of the Gambler's Chest...and suddenly the Chinese recasters quip made sense.
Recasters should never make sense, boardgames and wargames are not life essentials there is no moral justification for using them, they are leeches living from other peoples hard work.
So, someone brought up Chinese recasters, which surprised me at first. I've never even considered that there might be a market for such a thing, what with the game's high entry cost keeping out the buy-to-win types and with collectors tending to prize original productions. But then I read the rumor that the King model, the mini that many backers pledged $45 plus shipping to get and patiently waited years for, might only become available as part of the Gambler's Chest...and suddenly the Chinese recasters quip made sense.
Recasters should never make sense, boardgames and wargames are not life essentials there is no moral justification for using them, they are leeches living from other peoples hard work.
While certainly true, if someone is not able/willing to match the demand for ones products and/or is pricing it way out of anything reasonable, there will be knock-offs/counterfeits.
And let's be honest here, who has never watched a movie on a streaming site, downloaded books or comics, watched porn for free, picked up counterfeit clothes or watches on vacation, taped a movie from tv or a song from radio?
Same goes for recasts imo. Look at GW and what they are doing to prevent recasts, because they are doing a lot of things right the last year. Start Collecting! boxes are in a sweet spot where there is no longer a reason to buy them as recasts. Bringing back OOP miniatures in metal with a quality most recasters can't match.
Doing it wrong? GW limited release miniatures, even worse, limited to a certain country at a single store opening. Am I getting this model from Ebay for 40+ € or from a recaster for 5 €? Same goes for Kingdom Death. The Pin-Ups were only available on KS (correct me if wrong), but are so popular, that recasters see business in it and they appear regularly on a popular marketplace. The actual expansions? Not so much, because they can be bought directly and, more importantly, include the needed rules for playing.
My main concern about this KS is Poot's ability to run a business vs. his apparent poor impulse control. With KS1, he lost money, but his business (the pinups?) made enough for him to not go out of business. If he loses money on KS2, I dunno if he's gonna be able to see enough pinups! Him not meeting expectations, such as the 1/2 off expansions and crossovers not being promos (so they wouldn't be free in some pledges) may be him readjusting the balance sheets unsubtlely.
If miniatures have artificial value added to them (500 ever made, sold out in 1 hour, not being cast anymore), I don't see them as rightfully insured against being recasted, so to say.
If copycats recast something, that is available without their "help", that's bad, if models are made in strictly low numbers for a big price and sell out in a blink of an eye, like kingdom death, IMHO the recasts are justified. It's like video games abandonware- if there is no other way of getting the game, other then pirating it, it's the producers fault.
KD regular policy is very anti consumer- ITS LIMITED, get it quick NOW for insane prices or never will you have our minis i"on your shelf.
I really want to get into KD, but I'm only given a month to do so at a reasonable price(I don't have enough money even with these conditions- 100 bucks shipping takes it out of my reach) + most of the models in the kickstarter won't appear until next kickstarter or Black Friday . + Kickstarter got 7,5 million bucks, after the production cost is subtracted, I doubt Poots will be bankrupt..
I don't think recasts are *ever* justified, but, in the USA, we have a strong sense of IP, at least until someone makes their own version of a product, or it's a tangible product. Also, we're spoiled by the sheer variety of creative work here -- made, in part, due to IP laws that protect them. Nobody forces you to buy these overpriced toys, and the risk of recasters are sellers passing off their recast -- aka. counterfeit -- products as the real thing. Counterfeits are fine until someone sells you a defective product. (Which reminds me, anyone else looking forward to GameZone delivering HeroQuest in March?
I agree that the reality *is* that the market will buy the cheaper product of similar or acceptable quality, but that doesn't mean it's right (or wrong) to do it.
EDIT: Should mention that, with online piracy, the problem lies with using a new technology with an old distribution system (sorta like boardgames and the traditional retailer-distributor model, developed in the 1940's). Rather than the old model of directly paying for product, MU had premium subscribers, whose payments subsidized the free accounts. Musical artists did their own publicity, and were paid depending on how much of their content was downloaded. Also, of course, media streaming sites such as YouTube use the ol' advertising to subsidize YouTube's "free" service. And then there's the 1980's model of using cartoons and animation as 30-minute advertisements for toys and merchandising. In the case of anime, the shows are typically used to sell printed manga, even if not all the viewers buy it.
My main concern about this KS is Poot's ability to run a business vs. his apparent poor impulse control. With KS1, he lost money, but his business (the pinups?) made enough for him to not go out of business. If he loses money on KS2, I dunno if he's gonna be able to see enough pinups! Him not meeting expectations, such as the 1/2 off expansions and crossovers not being promos (so they wouldn't be free in some pledges) may be him readjusting the balance sheets unsubtlely.
Given how much reserved he is in this kickstarter and how much he seems to care about his company balance it seems he took his lesson from the previous kickstarter, I do not think he readjusts the balance sheets I think these things were there from the start, if I have something bad to cast is communication, on hindsight the information is there from day one, but it is not conveyed correctly in a manner that is easily understandable.
SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:If miniatures have artificial value added to them (500 ever made, sold out in 1 hour, not being cast anymore), I don't see them as rightfully insured against being recasted, so to say.
If copycats recast something, that is available without their "help", that's bad, if models are made in strictly low numbers for a big price and sell out in a blink of an eye, like kingdom death, IMHO the recasts are justified. It's like video games abandonware- if there is no other way of getting the game, other then pirating it, it's the producers fault.
KD regular policy is very anti consumer- ITS LIMITED, get it quick NOW for insane prices or never will you have our minis i"on your shelf.
I really want to get into KD, but I'm only given a month to do so at a reasonable price(I don't have enough money even with these conditions- 100 bucks shipping takes it out of my reach) + most of the models in the kickstarter won't appear until next kickstarter or Black Friday . + Kickstarter got 7,5 million bucks, after the production cost is subtracted, I doubt Poots will be bankrupt..
It is still not an excuse and the comparison of the digital distribution has a few flaws, more importantly though in the abandonware comparison, abandonware are software that have been abandoned from the IP holder, either because the IP law expired or the IP holder does not exist anymore, or rarely because the IP holder has abandoned any claims to the IP. It has no comparison to KDM been limited release and to be fair there are many good reasons why they are a limited release, been artificially limited to pump up the price is the least possible reason for them.
It is still not an excuse and the comparison of the digital distribution has a few flaws, more importantly though in the abandonware comparison, abandonware are software that have been abandoned from the IP holder, either because the IP law expired or the IP holder does not exist anymore, or rarely because the IP holder has abandoned any claims to the IP. It has no comparison to KDM been limited release and to be fair there are many good reasons why they are a limited release, been artificially limited to pump up the price is the least possible reason for them.
Oh really? So when GW is pushing out a Tidewall rampant or Space hulk as a limited time offer for a big sum of money- that's bad and they want to grab our cash using the "limited, buy it now factor", but when Poots does it, such reasoning is the least possible? Even the word "boutique" on a home page of KD website adds artificial value to the brand, (like Apple is more expensive, because it's Apple). KD Has no good reason to be sold in the way it is, other than to profit its producer and make it more convenient for him. If models weren't limited, hence so hard to get, Kickstarter wouldn't explode and be overdosed with backers, making Poots life easier(he wouldn't have dro do "the math") and he still, I think, would earn a lot, but gradually, not in a fast swoop.
As to abandonware - there are also examples like EA, that cut the cord of their online games, and no one can enjoy then anymore (try playing darkspore) and that example is close to KD, IMHO. You didn't buy during the set amount of time? Well, better luck next time, you can wait for next. Kickstarter to get the expansion/monster you wanted! Make sure you press f5 and don't think about the price twice.
IP is important and small companies especially(!!!) shouldn't be scalped by copycats(how can the creator evolve and be able to do what we want for us and what he loves for themselves, if the money goes to the recaster??), but when they behave in such a way.. We want 500 x Price of the mini, and no more! I'd understand if some artist wouldn't want to be left out to enjoy one of the wonderful sculpts, that KD have, and want to paint them, but his only way to do so- is to buy a copy. I'll do a compliment out of the following example: it's as if only a limited amount of people would be allowed to visit some artist~s exhibition.
SnotlingPimpWagon: Your reasoning is fundamentally flawed. You seem to think that you have a moral *right* to own whatever you want. No. You have no right whatsoever. All the rights to a certain model lies with its creator and producer. If they want to make no more than 100 copies of a model, and you don't get one of those 100, your *only* right is to cry and lament that you didn't get one. You have *no* right to make a copy of it just because you want it. Again, you have *no* right whatsoever to own something just because you want it. That's the long and short of it. Doesn't matter if it costs $1 or $100 000, it's not yours to take.
Mymearan wrote: SnotlingPimpWagon: Your reasoning is fundamentally flawed. You seem to think that you have a *right* to own whatever you want. No. You have no right whatsoever. All the rights to a certain model lies with its creator and producer. If they want to make no more than 100 copies of a model, and you don't get one of those 100, your *only* right is to cry and lament that you didn't get one. You have *no* right to make a copy of it just because you want it. Again, you have *no* right whatsoever to own something just because you want it.
I was just getting ready to point out that an artist is under no obligation to make sure that everyone who wants their work gets it. Capitalism makes that an excellent idea for the artist (more offerings = more sales = more money) but what they are willing to produce is a limiting factor which also will increase the value. Much like autographs of people who don't typically sign things are more valuable, but someone is not entitled to someone's signature just because they met the person. While discussion of how mankind's ability to produce reliable copies of art (which is actually very recent in recorded history) would be interesting, it does seem it would be better routed to Dakka Discussions.
Getting more on topic, the hands question I believe is just a body-horror trope that Adam likes. One of the ideas behind the disfigured end of the body horror spectrum is that of recognizable shapes in unrecognizable formations after all. So it's designed to play with your natural instincts to see patterns, which we do regardless of whether they're there, and then tap into the wrongness that those hands are not where hands should be. I don't think there's been any explained reason for why Adam prefers that symbolism over others though.
I'm liking what I've seen from the campaign thus far, and imagine that January is going to see a hefty bill for this on my card.
You are seriously comparing a company with thousands of employees, its own manufacturing, retail chain and distribution channel that has millions of profit with a small company that has nothing of the above?
The difference is GW can produce more spacehulks without affecting its bottom line and can take the financial risk of not all of them been sold, Poots cannot do so and making a product that does not sell can be the end of his company, the limited runs he makes seems more or less to be the minimum order/ mould life of the product and encores mean the limited run managed to make enouph money to be profitable and fund a next run.
You have to draw lines on comparable things EA cutting online play support or MMO companies killing the game is quite different from a boardgame not getting reprint because it is expensive to manufacture, has low profit margin and is a high risk on not selling enouph.
Recasting is not acceptable for active lines, want a product be reprinted campaign for it and help the producer make it possible to reprint it.
Mymearan wrote: SnotlingPimpWagon: Your reasoning is fundamentally flawed. You seem to think that you have a moral *right* to own whatever you want. No. You have no right whatsoever. All the rights to a certain model lies with its creator and producer. If they want to make no more than 100 copies of a model, and you don't get one of those 100, your *only* right is to cry and lament that you didn't get one. You have *no* right to make a copy of it just because you want it. Again, you have *no* right whatsoever to own something just because you want it. That's the long and short of it. Doesn't matter if it costs $1 or $100 000, it's not yours to take.
This isn't about right or wrong. The demand for recasts is there, like it or not. SnotlingPimpWagon is stating a reason why it exists. And he's totally right. If you can't match the demand for a product, a part of possible customers will look elsewhere. Is it hurting the creator? Absolutely. Could the creator have prevented it? Absolutely. Like I said earlier, there is a way to fight recasts and it's not through prosecution, but through pulling the customer with good value, like GW's Start Collecting! boxes.
What makes you think Poots is not already giving the best deal he can afford and the recasters just make things more difficult for him to provide more to his customer base?
What makes you think Poots is not already giving the best deal he can afford and the recasters just make things more difficult for him to provide more to his customer base?
Were the Pin Ups available outside of the KS? Because these are the only KD recasts that I see all the time. Actual models are very rare, seemingly lacking demand (due to missing rules/cards or actually wanting to support the creator I can only guess).
And to expand on my earlier post, even if GW can take the risk they are in under no obligation to do so, I am just illustrating the extremes, the one company can take a risk and survive, regardless of if they choose to take the risk or not, the other simply cannot so the question should not be put i the first place.
Poots, of course, isn't the sculptor (or artist) of Kingdom Death. He credits his sculptors, and it's not hard to find their websites for their own work. So, if you're looking for high-quality sculpts even by the same sculptors, such sculpts are hardly limited. However, if you can only have *Kingdom Death* miniatures, you've now shown that the work the creator put into creating his brand name and vision has *value* to you that even the sculptors and artists he hired do not. If this drives yourself to a recaster-slash counterfeiter who's profiting off of another person's work (including the brand name-slash-vision), that's certainly how an illegal market works. But that recaster-slash-counterfeiter is certainly making money off of some else's work, and you can't always have things your way. If you're buying an original sculpture that the recaster has designed and made, I don't think we'd be having this conversation. Myself, while I have some GW games and miniatures, am quite able to walk away from their wargaming miniature line to Mantic. Likewise, I have found other "boutique" miniatures (or at least ones meant for display-level painting) from Dark Sword. *Neither* of these companies engage in recasts.
Mymearan wrote: SnotlingPimpWagon: Your reasoning is fundamentally flawed. You seem to think that you have a moral *right* to own whatever you want. No. You have no right whatsoever. All the rights to a certain model lies with its creator and producer. If they want to make no more than 100 copies of a model, and you don't get one of those 100, your *only* right is to cry and lament that you didn't get one. You have *no* right to make a copy of it just because you want it. Again, you have *no* right whatsoever to own something just because you want it. That's the long and short of it. Doesn't matter if it costs $1 or $100 000, it's not yours to take.
You sound like my government, especially with "you have no rights"part
If I decide to talk about my rights, I will make sure, I contact you.
@Hanskrampf Thanks for getting what I mean
@PsychoticStorm I believe he is giving us the best deal he can with 50% off offers(dragon king is just amazing value) and 200/250 dollars per 1.5 core (that one as well), and I'm truly sad, that 350 bucks (250+ 100 for shipping) puts me out of the loop.
What I'm saying, is that I hate the limited run policy, that makes it difficult for people to get what they want for the game they invested in, when they want it. It's very consumer unfriendly, and I wouldn't have any issues with people buying copies of miniatures, that are IMPOSSIBLE to get otherwise. (Copies of copies really, originals are printed in China)
Poots doesn't seem to see giving out 15000 orders from one Kickstarter by a small company as a risk though. Printing miniatures on demand, or more in advance with a chance of exceeding the demand doesn't seem to be a risk worthy of notice for a company with such a big following.
I'm actually happy to see them doing well, it makes me wish, that they will just start selling miniatures, like all other companies do, and if they were small before, now they have the funds to grow and catch up!
Back on topic:
The mosquito Is great! I don't like the massive fingers on the sides of the sack, but I actually really like the "extra arms everywhere" fetish of KD How long does it usually take them to flesh out a model from
The artwork they show? I can't wait to see in miniature form
Mymearan wrote: SnotlingPimpWagon: Your reasoning is fundamentally flawed. You seem to think that you have a moral *right* to own whatever you want. No. You have no right whatsoever. All the rights to a certain model lies with its creator and producer. If they want to make no more than 100 copies of a model, and you don't get one of those 100, your *only* right is to cry and lament that you didn't get one. You have *no* right to make a copy of it just because you want it. Again, you have *no* right whatsoever to own something just because you want it. That's the long and short of it. Doesn't matter if it costs $1 or $100 000, it's not yours to take.
Who are you to tell someone what rights he or she has? Who has given you that right?
Yeah... I 100% get the intent of "don't be an entitled jerk," but not having the right to acquire something is actually potentially extremely discriminatory and rejecting services has been used as a weapon, and not having the right to what you already legally own describes the abolition of private property.
Now, a limited release is something about a privilege of being on the in crowd with enough money to acquire something, so is hardly the same thing, but, just, that was a pretty sweeping removal of people's rights in the justification of limited edition toys.
Psychotic-- I definitely agree that KD has nothing resembling the resources of GW, but would question your assumptions of his short runs of models: as seen numerous times, he's turned incredible volumes in short times due to scarcity of product, and no one other than the casters and people in studio can confirm what his motivations for that model are.
Alpharius wrote: There's really not a lot about KD's monsters that you would be OK with your kids seeing, is there?
Heh good point. I don't even let them look at Nurgle stuff much. I haven't seen the KDM minis in-person but it seems like the core monsters are unsettling but not the extreme genital-horror of some of the addons. Maybe I'm wrong though!
The hand stuff definitely fits the maximum creepiness vibe - take something normal and alter it in unexpected ways.
Clanan, completely depends. I think a few are definitely not all that clean, but, particularly in the core set, it's much more the rulebook that I'd feel uncomfortable sharing rather than the models (though there are a few that I haven't decided if I'll be modifying them or just not getting them, what with the giant phallus (phalli?)). Then again, I think I started watching horror movies when I was around 10, so I might be the wrong guy to ask.
What I'm saying, is that I hate the limited run policy, that makes it difficult for people to get what they want for the game they invested in, when they want it. It's very consumer unfriendly, and I wouldn't have any issues with people buying copies of miniatures, that are IMPOSSIBLE to get otherwise. (Copies of copies really, originals are printed in China)
The universe is finite, everything is limited run.
The demand is outstripping the supply, which is amazing for a $400 game. Can't afford it, too bad bro. Tesla doesn't owe me a Model S at Golf prices, just because I can't afford the 'real' one.
Also, the resins are hand cast in France, not China. Those are the real "impossible" minis to get.
¨You both misunderstood my post, I was simply informing him that the market and copyright law doesn't agree with his views. I have PMed you both to avoid derailing further.
Heh good point. I don't even let them look at Nurgle stuff much. I haven't seen the KDM minis in-person but it seems like the core monsters are unsettling but not the extreme genital-horror of some of the addons. Maybe I'm wrong though!
The hand stuff definitely fits the maximum creepiness vibe - take something normal and alter it in unexpected ways.
KDM plays more with the uncanny valley than with the shock genitals have, every monster is something recognisable yet off, the lion has hands and while it resembles a lion it has some distinctive elements that make the familiar form of the lion weird and bizarre, the arms are well shaped in contrast with the grotesque form that caries them, the faces are calm and serene despite the carnage that evolves around them, all parts of KDM are designed (in my opinion) to send contradicting signals to the viewer and confuse him or her, sure there are genitals here and there but they are not what makes the image unsettling.
From Poot's comments the future Gamer's pledge(including everything with rules, but no pinups basically) will cost more than the Satan pledges even after their discount. So early pledgers must be getting huge savings.
He must have a ton of expansions and other content left to reveal.
Although, in my POV, all this value is *perceived* value. Art is only worth what someone will pay for it. Not MSRP. I'm reading more postings on BGG about reselling the KD:M miniatures more than any other KS I've followed, including miniatures, such as Reaper. This means, of course, that there will be much more aftermarket supply than there was for the first KS. With non-miniature backers resulting in copies with partially assembled miniatures, we may even see backers who just want to get rid of the game and recoup their costs.
$7.5M - Gambler's Chest Roll #14, Pinup Frogdog Armor, Pinups of Death 2, Gorm Reprint Confirmed, New Frogdog & God Frogdog Pledge Levels! Bone Eater!
Just a quick note, I am not 100% satisfied with his anatomy yet. We are going to give this another pass or two before it makes it to final. Thanks!
The Gorm is a node #1 Monster and its awesome!!!!
New Pledge Levels!
Frogdog & God Frogdog! Both pledge levels include the Frogdog Shirt, which is NOT exclusive and can be added to your rewards for +$25
This campaign has surpassed all wildest expectations. It has melted my mind almost daily. Until we are at it's end, I am not ready to bundle just game-content. BECAUSE I HAVE NO IDEA HOW MUCH WE WILL ADD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE ONLY RESPONSIBLE THING TO DO IS TO CHARGE AHEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Honestly, the core game is massive. If your new to KD, it will give you a huge amount of gameplay! Just because I have gone insane, doesn't mean you should too!
Please pledge responsibly. Thank you.
Automatically Appended Next Post: That pinup frogdog, I might need to buy one or two extras since the puppies are so cure.
IMHO a pretty boring update, never liked Gorm(one of the weakest monster sculpts) or pinups(I must be in the minority). And discount on him is down to 33% :/
Bone eater is pretty rad though!
Man, that really puts Drakon king expansion in perspective, for 25 bucks more it feels like 3 times as awesome. Maybe I just buy DKing while he's 75$..
Yep, other than being a rare early hunt, the Gorm doesn't have a lot going for him. In my opinion pay a little more and get Dragon King or Sunstalker if you're only going for one existing expansion.
Just finished the dragon campaign, thought it was pretty damn great. IDK what the monster's like on its own, but would definitely recommend that one highly.
Where the Stan Lantern pledges always limited in number? One of them is all gone at 321, for example. Or did Adam make them no longer available so people would have to take the more expensive Frogdog pledge level?
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Where the Stan Lantern pledges always limited in number? One of them is all gone at 321, for example. Or did Adam make them no longer available so people would have to take the more expensive Frogdog pledge level?
Okay, it's official. I'm an idiot and an addict. I just swapped my BF Silver Lantern ($185) pledge for a BF Gambler's Lantern Second Face pledge ($927). I've already got the 1.0 game so I guess I'll make a new account, grab a regular Lantern Update, and sell my incoming KD:M 1.5 box new on eBay. This is officially the most I've ever spent on a Kickstarter.
Pinups part 2 are exactly the models the original KS had plus a settlement event and a few gear cards, so if you had the original, no point in getting it.
If they lose, no gambler chest roll, instead I take everyone here out to lunch and we take the day easy!
DOUBLE OR NOTHING BONUS ROUND
If they win, they can take a double or nothing bonus into their next fight against the Flower Knight tonight. If they win, we will also make a Male Man Hunter Pinup!
Twitch must vote if they take the double or nothing bonus.
GO HELP THEM OUT NOW!!!!
GOOD LUCK EVERYONE!!!!!!
This time they managed to win both a nice change of pace I guess so male and female manhunter pinups and no rolls "lost"
Managed to snatch a Black Friday pledge yesterday and looking to add maybe one or two add-ons. Which ones are the most fun and/or good value?
Gorm aside, I like every sculpt so far.
Rascarcapac about 3 hours ago
When you wake up with that type of news, it makes your day! Thank you Twitch guys!
I think the male manhunter pin-up will be the greatest of its kind.
BTW, concerning new expansions (spoilers):
* 4 already revealed: nightmare ram, screaming god, frogdog, oblivion mosquito
* 3 have been officially teased with pictures: Satan, the wendigo at the end of the video, the pariah in this update
* 1 has been named: Frogdog God!!!
*3 have been in the work for some time: the beehive queen, the ringtail fox, the jungle queen
* 1 is supposed to reappear at some point in a revised edition: the cancelled lantern fest expansion with its amazing king figure
That's an expansion galore! And we haven't seen it all yet!
So will the pinups be paid add-ons, free only to levels that receive pinups, or ??? Update says "If they win, they can take a double or nothing bonus into their next fight against the Flower Knight tonight. If they win, we will also make a Male Man Hunter Pinup!"
Yeah, that's a really nice design and would go well with the Flower Witch and a few of her disciples. It does seem like the expansions have been focused on the Inverted Mountain so far, so it would be nice if there were several from the Abyssal Woods as well.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Incidentally, where are you guys reading up on KD lore/fluff/fiction? I have no idea what Inverted Mountain, even is. :-p
The Inverted Mountain is new in this KS as far as I know, at least I've only read about it in the updates. The other stuff mostly comes from the bits in the store descriptions and the existing expansions, some of it is collected at Vibrant Lantern.
KDM - Nightmare Ram Expansion - Revealed as part of this KS KDM - Ringtail Fox Expansion
KDM - Black Knight Expansion
KDM - Gryphon Expansion - In wrap-up chat with the Twitch gamers after the Manhunter & FK fights, Adam apparently mentioned the Gryphon as being part of the Inverted Mountain "setting", which is shaping up as a major theme for the KS, so I would def count on it
KDM - Frogdog Expansion - Revealed as part of this KS KDM - Lantern Festival (being reworked from the ground up, might focus on towns instead of settlements) - Cancelled in KS1.0 Update 100 - personally fully expect models to be used in this KS KDM - Storm Knight Expansion (how a survivor can become a hero) - Photo of plastic sprue leaked earlier this year, seems inevitable
KDM - Custom Campaign Book (for mixing our current expansions, supported with new story events) - Personally sounds like perfect material for the KD:M Advanced Rulebook in the Gambler's CHest, likely with the Node system being in the 1.5 Core and forming the basis for this, e.g. a People of the Mountain campaign that uses all the Inverted Mountain monsters supported with special events and such
KDM - Rust Ocean (area where Architects are from)
Pariah teased in yesterday's update.
With the whole Inverted Mountain, the Mountain Man seems pretty inevitable.
True Form Satan, of course, confirmed as the first expansion they had not planned to do going into this KS.
Forge God and Wet Nurse confirmed as NOT in this KS. Personally, I think all the Holy Lands stuff is being reserved for KS: Labyrinth.
$7.7M - Gambler's Chest Roll #15, The Pariah is ready to torment your settlement and so is the Slender Man! TwitchGameNight won last night!
Dare you add both the Pariah & The Slenderman to the same campaign!?
Some amazing Painted Slendermen we've found on the internet!
Just a quick note of clarification. Since this collection contains all the pinups from our previous kickstarter, YES it is included in all the Satan Pledge Levels and The God Frogdog Pledge level. No, you will not get 2 sets of pinups. The collection just turns those loose figures into a nice set.
For the fans that already have all these pinups and are interested in the new game content. We will create a little card pack that you can pledge for during this kickstarter. I do not have pricing for that yet, but it will be as low. Will get that up ASAP. Thanks!
I'm liking the Pariah, and how it comes with a hardmode boss, as well. I'm still not seeing anything to really justify the gamblers chest, at this point. If you're interested in the narrative models that's cool, but other than some (admittedly cool) monoposes, it's just not that exciting. I just hope he doesn't add something really exceptional and then up the price on it.
Sirius42 wrote: Struggling to keep on top of this now, could really do with a death toll calculator
I've been keeping track of stuff in a spreadsheet to see if/when my gambler pledge breaks even (still $177 short). Here's the copy/paste of everything I've got listed so far (been adding to it as each update is released, don't think I'm missing anything)
1.5 Update Pack $60.00
Gambler's box $100.00
First Hero expansion $35.00
Male Pinup Twilight Knight $15.00
Male Pinup Dung Beetle Dancer $15.00
Pinup Dung Beetle Dancer $15.00
Pinup Dung Ball $15.00
Nightmare Ram $40.00
Pinup Dung Beetle Knight $15.00
Pinup Screaming God Armor $15.00
Screaming God $50.00
Role Survivors $25.00
Satan Twins $25.00
Frogdog $50.00
Pinup Gold Smoke Knight Armor $15.00
Male Pinup Screaming God Armor $15.00
Pinup Nightmare Ram Armor + Rammette $15.00
Candy & Cola Cross-over $20.00
Oblivion Mosquito Expansion $50.00
Pinup Frogdog Armor $15.00
Pariah Expansion $40.00
The Satan Twins are not included in the $777 pledge.
Sirius42 wrote: Struggling to keep on top of this now, could really do with a death toll calculator
I've been keeping track of stuff in a spreadsheet to see if/when my gambler pledge breaks even (still $177 short). Here's the copy/paste of everything I've got listed so far (been adding to it as each update is released, don't think I'm missing anything)
1.5 Update Pack $60.00
Gambler's box $100.00
First Hero expansion $35.00
Male Pinup Twilight Knight $15.00
Male Pinup Dung Beetle Dancer $15.00
Pinup Dung Beetle Dancer $15.00
Pinup Dung Ball $15.00
Nightmare Ram $40.00
Pinup Dung Beetle Knight $15.00
Pinup Screaming God Armor $15.00
Screaming God $50.00
Role Survivors $25.00
Satan Twins $25.00
Frogdog $50.00
Pinup Gold Smoke Knight Armor $15.00
Male Pinup Screaming God Armor $15.00
Pinup Nightmare Ram Armor + Rammette $15.00
Candy & Cola Cross-over $20.00
Oblivion Mosquito Expansion $50.00
Pinup Frogdog Armor $15.00
Pariah Expansion $40.00
The Satan Twins are not included in the $777 pledge.
Nor is any cross-overs so it's short $222 we must be missing at least 4 planned expansions
All the new monster expansions (so far) come with narrative sculpts of survivors instead of the armor kits like the original expansions had.
The Gambler's Chest currently has 15 totally new sculpts that are unrelated to the expansions (and are mostly based on armor sets that are found within the core box).
We've got a long way to go before deciding if the pledge levels are "worth it". There's also a spreadsheet floating around that tracks everything and has a percentage value to show what kind of discount the pledge level is sitting at currently.
We still do not know if they will be part of this KS campaign.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
TWITCH VS LEVEL 2 GORM! + PINUP DISCIPLE OF THE WITCH SCULPT STREAMING NOW!
They must hunt a level 2 Gorm with the following rules:
The showdown begins with Ancient Indigestion in play. This is in addition to all of the Gorms normal AI cards.
When half of its AI deck is in the wound stack (rounded down) it gains +1 damage token.
At the start of the showdown remove "Mammoth Crowded Fangs" & "Mammoth Bloated Face" from the monster's HL deck.I grant them +2 (maybe we'll give them 2 more if its looking close) rerolls to use during the hunt and showdown.
Zachary Barash (Game Designer), whom play tested the crap out of the core game and worked on many expansions with me and the rest of the team, has joined twitch to help!
IF TWITCH WINSTwitch may vote for 3 different rewards to be added to the Gambler's Chest. If it's within my power I will select one to add. If I deem them all ridiculous, I will add +1 reward of my choice.
IF TWITCH LOSES AND HAS USED ALL GRANTED REROLLS
I will remove the XMAS reward from the Gambler's Chest.
GOOD LUCK!
ALSO!!!!!
Pinup Disciple of the Witch (+$15)
Has now been revealed! Sculptor Jon-Troy Nickel will be streaming sculpting progress and has already started!
https://www.twitch.tv/hazardousarts
Automatically Appended Next Post: To be entirely honest I am getting tired of the twitch challenges....
To be entirely honest I am getting tired of the twitch challenges....
Especially the "stakes over win/ lost"
I agree. I realize he's trying to keep up the energy of the campaign, and I guess maybe it's interesting if you're way into Twitch, but I am not, I don't know who these people are, and I don't really want to have to care, honestly.
Absolutionis, the witch is the flower witch (some big entity in a windy forest), which is currently a kit with several survivors in living clothing that don't come with any rules.
Speculation is that she'll be part of a campaign variant.
Although a lot of pressure on that group to get the win, looked like higher stakes this time!
I quite enjoy the twich games, mario levels and things of that nature, help adds a bit of variety to the campaign (although agree perhaps will be too many twitch games in a row if they do another one now).
It is certainly a good way of engaging with other communities outside of the KS, as this now moves on the $8 mark.
To be entirely honest, it was one of the bad games to show off KDM, boring, uninspiring, two times they died before reaching the monster and were saved by their rerolls, the fight was going on their favour but the damage removal made the monsters super attack show up continuously and in the end was stuck on been repeated constantly if they did not had a bug/ exploit character (something that is fixed on 1,5) they would have all died.
Yes, KDM is brutal and punishing, yes, this can happen but all (ok some not all) auto loose conditions on the same game with a boss fight that ends up playing so boring is not what KDM is all about.
I feel it illustrates the game in a bad light and would like to point out that most fights are not that boring but exciting and the synergy and tactics players can have give deepness on the fights.
Automatically Appended Next Post: That been said UPDATE
$7.8M - TWITCHGAMENIGHT WON!, Gambler's Chest roll #16, Sunstalker Expansion Reprint, Disciple of the Witch Pinup and SUPER SURVIVORS!
TWITCH GAMENIGHT WON!
As promised, twitch is currently voting on 3 rewards to be added to the Gambler's Chest. I will select one of the rewards to add to the Gambler's Chest. If I deem them all as ridicules, I will instead select something of my own choice.
Ihaztoys is still currently streaming the progress on the Pinup Disciple of the Witch if anyone wants to check them out!
https://www.twitch.tv/hazardousarts That's it for me guys! Night!!!!! See you in the morning!!!!!
Father son probably one of his best sculpts, great composition, fantastic juxtaposition of the game and setting.
I'venot had a chance to crawl through the comments section, but has there been any indication of what the Super Survivors actually *are*? Currently it just looks like 4 figures with no rules... which looks like a lot for $40 when you compare it to the new expansions
Next update maybe, or the 8m update, not sure witch one.
They are short of expensive but not really, not sure if they will have wider circulation but definitely are not expected to be sold in the numbers expansions are, so cost is not that bad 10$ per sculpt though we might see all 4 and if the price does not change it might go down to 5$ per sculpt, given normal pinups are 15$ per sculpt its not a bad price.
Man, he keeps adding useless stuff to the gambler's chest. I wish I could just get the rules from it without all the models I'll never use. But maybe the rules aren't really that crucial anyway.
And I too am pretty sick of the twitch games, and pointless updates announcing the twitch games. If only he had made this a shorter campaign, but we've still got many days left that will no doubt include many disappointing and/or pointless updates.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Oh man, that father and son are totally each other's world entire. I'm choking right in the feels. Is it only available through the GC?
I was wondering the same thing. I definitely want the Beast Hunter armor set, and would probably buy all of the narrative sculpts as well... I just want the option of buying them one at a time, instead of all RIGHT NOW.
BobtheInquisitor: I'll need to wait and see what ends up in the Gambler's Chest. I may not even get it. If I do, there may be a few models I actually want. I'm not going to pay $50 plus shipping just for the rules "half" of it. I think the models are much more than 50% of the content.
endtransmission wrote: I'venot had a chance to crawl through the comments section, but has there been any indication of what the Super Survivors actually *are*? Currently it just looks like 4 figures with no rules... which looks like a lot for $40 when you compare it to the new expansions
it looks like they are Adams homage to the Super Saiyans of Dragonball Z (http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Super_Saiyan) so while there is no guarantee of any in game use it wouldn't surprise me if there might be a game card or two with big rewards in terms of combat power but big risks in terms of wrecking the surrounding area like your settlement
Orland, they definitely are-- he made an overt reference when he was posting one of their illustrations.
No idea about the rules... they're priced on the low side for things w/o content, on the high side of things with content... because in this campaign, things are more expensive if they don't have rules.
Oh I also caught from the comments that all the expansions people bought from the BF sale from the EU warehouse have just been sent out according to Dark Mediator who is one of the KD shipping folk
Automatically Appended Next Post:
the voting from the twitch stream
they got to present 3 requests to Adam for new content with Adam making 1 of them if they won (they did)..... or if he doesn't like any of the options making up something else entirely
so it looks like either More Settlement Events (could be fun, I could see Adam liking the idea), More Hunt Events (again I think this is possible), a Krampus Nemesis (probably not as I think it's too dependant on non KD mythology) or of course something else from Adams fevered dreams (I think he said he only got 3 hours sleep last night)
SLOPPY UPDATE - POOTS NEEDS SLEEP, Gambler's Chest Roll #17, NEW GRYPHON EXPANSION!, Sunstalker Expansion Reprint (that i forgot to post!), Lonely Tree Expansion, 2 x 1.5 Core Game Reveals & a New Pinup!
*Yes, we will fix the card with the wrong name and hook up anyone that needs it!
Wow. What an expansion. Whole new campaign, great-looking armor, and the big boy himself, who looks to be massive. Seems fair to me that it's priced similarly to the dragon.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Want to split the entire GC 50/50, you get the rules, I get the minis?
Isn't that more like 10/90?
I know there are some people who really value the rules and don't care for the miniatures, but I doubt they'd be willing to pay 90%.
Albino Squirrel wrote: BobtheInquisitor: I'll need to wait and see what ends up in the Gambler's Chest. I may not even get it. If I do, there may be a few models I actually want. I'm not going to pay $50 plus shipping just for the rules "half" of it. I think the models are much more than 50% of the content.
Well, I'm certainly open to counter offers. Really, I only care about a few of the minis in the GC, or I'd just buy the thing myself.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Man, I really want the supasaiyajin, but I really want the griffon. I'm not looking forward to the tournament-style Sophie's Choice I'll have to make in January.
Awesome video review by Shut up and sit down. It actually got me to decide to cancel my pledge. He's very measured and fair, but unaffected by the hype that had overwhelmed me. I realize now I can't really justify spending $300+ on a board game, especially one that I would have to spend an extraordinary amount of time on when I have a kid and tons of other games I want to play. It's just a game after all. Anyway, watch the whole thing, it's really good.
I love the Gryphon, this is shaping up to be a very expensive campaign. Speaking of which, are any of the larger pledge bundles anywhere near to being "worth it" yet?
PsychoticStorm wrote:
The pledge manager is a bit nebulous at the moment so better prepare to front-load your pledge in case.
Adam hasn't officially confirmed there will be any option to add cash post KS (even through it does seem unlikely there won't be at least one)
so not putting in as much as you can during the KS is a risk even if it's probably a small one
as to whether any of the levels are worth it this spreadsheet should tell you (if you figure it out which I can't at first glance.... but it does have all the KS prices and MRSP in one place so you make your own judgement with a calculator)
Mymearan wrote: Awesome video review by Shut up and sit down. It actually got me to decide to cancel my pledge. He's very measured and fair, but unaffected by the hype that had overwhelmed me. I realize now I can't really justify spending $300+ on a board game, especially one that I would have to spend an extraordinary amount of time on when I have a kid and tons of other games I want to play. It's just a game after all. Anyway, watch the whole thing, it's really good.
Mymearan wrote: Awesome video review by Shut up and sit down. It actually got me to decide to cancel my pledge. He's very measured and fair, but unaffected by the hype that had overwhelmed me. I realize now I can't really justify spending $300+ on a board game, especially one that I would have to spend an extraordinary amount of time on when I have a kid and tons of other games I want to play. It's just a game after all. Anyway, watch the whole thing, it's really good.
Eh, the minute "vulgar" art direction comes up, I feel like I can't be bothered to take a reviewer too seriously.
That's a mistake on your part then. what he's saying isn't untrue in any way, and i think most people would describe it the same way upon seeing it. Obviously everyone is free to like or dislike the art direction.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Adam hasn't officially confirmed there will be any option to add cash post KS (even through it does seem unlikely there won't be at least one)
so not putting in as much as you can during the KS is a risk even if it's probably a small one
as to whether any of the levels are worth it this spreadsheet should tell you (if you figure it out which I can't at first glance.... but it does have all the KS prices and MRSP in one place so you make your own judgement with a calculator)
Sounds to me like Poots just wants people to put up as much money up front as possible; there's no way that he won't allow extra purchases via the pledge manager.
Yeah, for starts, the shipping prices are estimates, and at the point where you've set up the infrastructure for adding to the cost, you might as well add the option to buy more stuff.
Re: vulgar, I think it's completely part of the game, and worth addressing. Haven't watched the video, but, yeah, as long as they're not ridiculous/judgey about it, no harm in telling the truth.
Mymearan wrote: Awesome video review by Shut up and sit down. It actually got me to decide to cancel my pledge. He's very measured and fair, but unaffected by the hype that had overwhelmed me. I realize now I can't really justify spending $300+ on a board game, especially one that I would have to spend an extraordinary amount of time on when I have a kid and tons of other games I want to play. It's just a game after all. Anyway, watch the whole thing, it's really good.
Eh, the minute "vulgar" art direction comes up, I feel like I can't be bothered to take a reviewer too seriously.
That's a mistake on your part then. what he's saying isn't untrue in any way, and i think most people would describe it the same way upon seeing it. Obviously everyone is free to like or dislike the art direction.
Which, in fairness, is a mistake on "most people's" part; art almost always demands you go beyond your visceral reaction to a work to think about said reaction. The genre is body horror, and that's a spectrum with deformed, grotesque monsters on one end and hyper-idealized (and thus equally grotesque in many regards) on the other. However, certainly not unreasonable to mention the most obvious thing that jumps out about the motif. That the correct genre is never mentioned is probably the only thing I really find unfair in the video.
As a review of the game itself, I found it to be mostly reasonable in its criticisms of the game. The one slight oversight is with the hunt phase with the random hunt cards that all say roll on the random hunt event table. It was obviously designed to be more modular for a future mechanic to utilize or add additional tables to in later expansions. I wouldn't expect a normal person to see that potential, but SU&SD has seen more than their share of games to pick up on design cues. Thus far, very little really leverages the modularity so it's mostly wasted potential and thus fair game for critique, but to say it makes "no sense" isn't exactly true either.
Their broader points that it's a big game, with tons of stuff, lots of record-keeping and the potential for a certain amount of drudgery in the early phases of any given campaign are certainly things people should be aware of before sinking in the money. There is also, as you said, a massive amount of time you need to enjoy the game fully and time is a zero-sum game. Time spent on A is time that cannot be spent on B.
KD is absolutely art. Something as simple as the pinup Fade, and accompanying event card is powerful as hell. The notion that...
1. A society may opt to condemn an infant for an urgently needed mechanical advantage, or make the harder choice is conveyed by a cool, single-card event/choice.
2. The model conveys body horror, and a world with different norms about sexuality, nudity, etc... all while being empowering showing a woman with a non-size 0 body-type being powerfully maternal (shielding an infant with her forearm), while also being a warrior.
KD isn't even enough credit by people quick to condemn it for, "lol dick butts"...
KD as a whole is absolutely art in my opinion. There is a depiction of story in nearly every piece of artwork, and even the miniatures often convey a story.
The female Twilight Knight was an early favorite of mine not because "hurr hurr tits!" but because of the entire piece itself. A woman, comfortably leaning against her weapon where she's clearly at ease with an implement of death (as a sword exists for no other purpose than to kill). She's not a damsel in distress and she's not awkwardly attempting to look intimidating but it's a casual familiarity with an oft-used tool like I would have with my computer at work or my car. And in the artwork that accompanies it there is just such an expression of resigned weariness; that whatever she just finished doing is the latest in a long chain of similar events that she can see stretching out before her until her untimely demise. It's bleak, disheartening and likely I would quail in her situation with the futility of it all, but there's no sign of weakness or fear in her expression. She knows her role in this nightmare, and she's going to see it through to the end. There's tragic beauty in that, and it's done so simply.
Obviously, as mentioned in the opening line a great deal of the interpretation of art depends on the beholder so it's inherently subjective, as is any definition of "what is art?" but I do feel...saddened? when people only engage with something at the most cursory of levels. KD's work has numerous layers, even if some of them are more readily apparent than others.
Krinsath wrote: KD as a whole is absolutely art in my opinion. There is a depiction of story in nearly every piece of artwork, and even the miniatures often convey a story.
The female Twilight Knight was an early favorite of mine not because "hurr hurr tits!" but because of the entire piece itself. A woman, comfortably leaning against her weapon where she's clearly at ease with an implement of death (as a sword exists for no other purpose than to kill). She's not a damsel in distress and she's not awkwardly attempting to look intimidating but it's a casual familiarity with an oft-used tool like I would have with my computer at work or my car. And in the artwork that accompanies it there is just such an expression of resigned weariness; that whatever she just finished doing is the latest in a long chain of similar events that she can see stretching out before her until her untimely demise. It's bleak, disheartening and likely I would quail in her situation with the futility of it all, but there's no sign of weakness or fear in her expression. She knows her role in this nightmare, and she's going to see it through to the end. There's tragic beauty in that, and it's done so simply.
Obviously, as mentioned in the opening line a great deal of the interpretation of art depends on the beholder so it's inherently subjective, as is any definition of "what is art?" but I do feel...saddened? when people only engage with something at the most cursory of levels. KD's work has numerous layers, even if some of them are more readily apparent than others.
People can see art in many different aspects of everyday life, individual perception is everything. Still, it seems unusual to me that you would feel saddened by people not having the same deep(?) perspective as yourself. People are free to enjoy KD without seeing the "art" in it.
I'm reminded of that scene in the film American Beauty when the wind is blowing the plastic bag around in the street. It's just a plastic bag!
It seems clear to me that Poots read Berserk, played Demon's Souls and watched some hentai, then decided to make some figures and a board game.
I love Berserk and I love Demon's Souls so that's absolutely fine with me! I don't care much for hentai though!
People can see art in many different aspects of everyday life, individual perception is everything. Still, it seems unusual to me that you would feel saddened by people not having the same deep(?) perspective as yourself. People are free to enjoy KD without seeing the "art" in it.
I'm reminded of that scene in the film American Beauty when the wind is blowing the plastic bag around in the street. It's just a plastic bag!
It seems clear to me that Poots read Berserk, played Demon's Souls and watched some hentai, then decided to make some figures and a board game.
I love Berserk and I love Demon's Souls so that's absolutely fine with me! I don't care much for hentai though!
It's not that I'm saddened by them not having a similarly deep perspective; it's when they look at something, make a snap judgement at a cursory level and then go no further. Sadness is an imprecise term there as well; it's very much akin to the feeling I have looking at the random hunt cards actually. That potential for their interpretation of the work and mine to be compared, that we could both learn something new, has been wasted. It's not an uncommon thing, and as you say everyone is free to do what they want with their own time and interests but it's no less unfortunate for how common it is.
By the same token, if someone wants to buy a gourmet meal and scarf it down as quickly as possible, or chug a bottle of fine wine, they are more than welcome to do so. It's just taking a little bit more time to examine things more closely could be hugely beneficial to the entire experience. If they're having the meal/wine to fulfill a basic need though (i.e. - food/drink/entertainment), I can understand why one would be more interested in that end of the equation than the exploration of the nuance offered. So too if someone is just buying KD to have a gaming experience, rather than using it as a vehicle for an exploration of the human psyche.
Fade is one of my favorite figures in the line (probably only teid with the fighter class pinup) for the very reasons NewTruthNeomaxim mentions. Powerful as hell.
I kind of wish the father and son narrative sculpt had gone with a similar pose with the two of them together as one figure. I'm debating about putting the father and son on separate bases so they can be running towards each other.
Maybe that way I can use the kid as an extra savior while I'm at it.
), fair play to them, but for me something like the Screaming God expansion is a better example of value.
