Davor wrote: Since I don't know anything about Kickstarter, if I placed an order now, or pledge I think they are called, when would I expect product at my door?
Despite it often being used as such, KS is not an online store you order from. You are basically investing in a pitched project that is not yet done to help see it come to fruition, with rewards offered based on your contribution (think along the lines of a PBS or NPR pledge drive). Projects have estimated delivery dates, but the KS that delivers on time is the minority as snags in development, scope creep, creator personal issues, manufacturer or distributor actions beyond the creator's control, and so on all add up and push fufillment back.
The first KS delivered about two years late, though as noted, it was one of the first ones that blew up that big and the creator has explicitly talked about learning from that experience. To that end, delivery of this KS is being split into multiple waves:
Summer 2017: Delivery of core game/upgrade packs. He's said they are already in process with the manufacturers and handling the logistics on this, with all of the model tooling existing from the previous KS and only the rulebook and some cards needing updating plus production of one model (which looks to also be tooled already), so this, to me, looks very reliable. I suspect any reprint of existing expansions offered through this KS will most likely ship with this, but he is working with manufacturers before confirming this.
Spring 2018: Gambler's Box (KD:M Advanced rules and options) and promo and pin-up models (one-off mode with a couple of less than serious gameplay cards). As the GB is likely their current main focus of development and the other things are pretty much just scultping and manufacturing, this is prob in the ballpark, though later 2018 would be more likely.
Spring 2019: New expansions funded by this KS (not reprints of existing). We know at least a few have been in development, but this date depends a lot on just how many have been unlocked. Expect to see this slip.
Late 2020: This is their CYA date for anything that wasn't part of the original plans and stretch goals for this KS but that ultimately gets greenlit due to the unexpected success of this one. Basically ideas they had on file for development and KSing after this one, but if they end up with a few million more than anticipated (which they already have) they are going to move ahead with with the funding from this one. What and when that's all entails is totally up in the air.
Davor wrote: Since I don't know anything about Kickstarter, if I placed an order now, or pledge I think they are called, when would I expect product at my door?
in 4-5 years or so, knowing Poots.
To be fair, he's got most of the infrastructure in place now so delivery should be faster on the 1.5 update and 1.5 Core + existing expansions. The new stuff will take a good amount of time, sadly. Hopefully the 2020 timeframe is just Poots being extremely cautious.
I don't think I've ever been part of a kickstarter that's delivered new product in under a year.
Yeah, based on past KS projects (not just KD), with China you're looking at a 12-18 month pipeline on HIPS. Throw in that Adam is a perfectionist and the tweaks for the print content and possibly plastics and you want to err on the long side of that equation. Throw in shipping to warehouses and then to your door and new content could take as much as the 2-3 years for *new* content. Existing content is more along the lines of shoot, print, ship, which is probably 6-8 months to being shipped to backers from when they can get a slot.
One thing that is nicer about KS though is that Adam will likely be a cash customer for a goodly chunk of the work as the money is being raised up front. Depending on what new stuff is planned, he can probably occupy big timeslots at the factory on his own which is a plus for a manufacturer. If he's staying with the same manufacturer (Wargames Factory), then they're already somewhat experienced and have a decent idea of what they can do and how. This, theoretically, should even some of Adam's "never stop tinkering" out, but it's definitely a game of patience.
A friend wants me to pledge for this, so if you're in one of the lower black friday pledge levels and thinking of switching to a higher / lower one could you PM me the time you plan to do so, to give me a chance at it? Thanks
RiTides wrote: A friend wants me to pledge for this, so if you're in one of the lower black friday pledge levels and thinking of switching to a higher / lower one could you PM me the time you plan to do so, to give me a chance at it? Thanks
I suggest you get in on the cheapest non-BF pledge you can afford for what you want. Once there, you get to play the Kickstarter mini-game where you constantly keep an eye out for the pledge of your choice opening up and then you "Manage Your Pledge" and snatch it. This is the most fun and exciting in the last day or two of the campaign where people are changing spots frequently based on what's available as addons.
I'm in the $185 pledge now and I'm not letting that go unless the math says the $777 pledge is a better value for what I'll end up buying anyway. Sadly, I can't make that decision until everything is revealed and I can add up my costs.
Davor wrote: Thanks all for the explanation when I the Kick Starter would arrive. Knowing me, I would forget about it, so guess it's not for me sadly.
Would like it now, not 3 or 4 years from now. Greatly appreciate the explanations.
Well, you'll get the core game, updated and expanded from what is currently available next summer. That is something that Poots is currently working on and has been for a while, so that should be good. Any of the current expansions you end up buying will be with that, which is a lot of content. And the people who like to wax poetic about the horrible delays of KDM often like to exaggerate. It funded on Jan 7 2013, with estimated delivery from Nov of that year on, it grew massively in scope and yet we had basically all of the content in around 3 years. That was tooling up and creating the project. This project, Adam learned and put an out there absolute end date of when you will have all of your stuff. The meaningful stuff that needs development - new expansion, which given the scope of stuff we've seen up to now will probably radically expand the gaming experience - will probably be delivered late 2019 by my estimation, with the possibility of a wave 2.5 or something depending on how ridiculous the wave 3 stuff gets.
Davor wrote: Since I don't know anything about Kickstarter, if I placed an order now, or pledge I think they are called, when would I expect product at my door?
Read the entire Campaign page. The first items will deliver mid-next year, and other pieces will trickle out in subsequent waves for 2018, 2019...
That said, we all know Adam is a perfectionist and a bit Mercurial, so I wouldn't be surprised to see some things delay if that's what he feels is needed.
I do think that he has a better idea of what he should be offering, and what things should cost, so we won't get ridiculous discounts, aside from the sheer volume that ties to $5M revenue. ____
Speaking of revenue, Forbes is almost certainly off with the notion of $50M revenue. That said, I think it's pretty much certain to top Dark Souls, and very possible that this tops Exploding Kittens' $8.7M
Davor wrote: Since I don't know anything about Kickstarter, if I placed an order now, or pledge I think they are called, when would I expect product at my door?
The FAQ should have the Wave shipping dates. Core is first wave, expected next year, frex. However, expect delays more than product!
Update is up, I wonder maybe we will see the other Sci fi's in this campaign?
OVER $5 MILLION PLEDGED! Gambler's Chest Roll #2! Can you guess the next pinup?
First Narrative Sculpture revealed!
And so the dice speak, and I reveal. White Fang, the Twilight Swordswoman is ready to join your hunting party and pounce into action! Use her to represent your favorite White Lion armored, Twilight Sword wielding survivor. A great way to get around the weapon's tricky cumbersome rule.
Cyber Monday Bonus! An additional bonus Added to the Gambler's Chest! ( no roll needed!)
Sci-fi Aya the Survivor joins the Gambler's Chest as a surprise bonus! Seemed appropriate with our silly shopping day and all. Oh and also the whole over 5 Million thing, which I am still in shock about. Has it really only been 3 days? Thankfully the team will be joining me monday morning ( in a mere 7 hours).
Anyway, All of you are awesome. I can't wait to get all the cool stuff we have lined up and ready to slowly... one tiny piece at a time... slowly, reveal it to everyone. Bwa hahahaha!
All right time for some sleep! Until tomorrow!!!!!!
I don't think we will, I am not sure he has anything planned for the amount we hit, he already improvises on that, for example the female first hero model.
By improvises I mean he adds stuff he didn't plan for because he has the luxury with the amount of money that has been gathered.
Davor wrote: Since I don't know anything about Kickstarter, if I placed an order now, or pledge I think they are called, when would I expect product at my door?
Read the entire Campaign page. The first items will deliver mid-next year, and other pieces will trickle out in subsequent waves for 2018, 2019...
ced1106 wrote:
Davor wrote: Since I don't know anything about Kickstarter, if I placed an order now, or pledge I think they are called, when would I expect product at my door?
The FAQ should have the Wave shipping dates. Core is first wave, expected next year, frex. However, expect delays more than product!
Reason I ask here is no matter what they say, from what I see especially from the Robotech Kickstarter, they don't always do what they say, so that is why I asked here what people actually experience.
Davor wrote: Since I don't know anything about Kickstarter, if I placed an order now, or pledge I think they are called, when would I expect product at my door?
Read the entire Campaign page. The first items will deliver mid-next year, and other pieces will trickle out in subsequent waves for 2018, 2019...
ced1106 wrote:
Davor wrote: Since I don't know anything about Kickstarter, if I placed an order now, or pledge I think they are called, when would I expect product at my door?
The FAQ should have the Wave shipping dates. Core is first wave, expected next year, frex. However, expect delays more than product!
Reason I ask here is no matter what they say, from what I see especially from the Robotech Kickstarter, they don't always do what they say, so that is why I asked here what people actually experience.
What you have with KS is a more eyes-on view to what happens with a product from concept to completion. Previously, you wouldn't know about all the issues because companies are generally working behind-the-scenes on new products and by the time you catch wind of most of them they're already actually fairly far along in the process. On the other extreme from KS where you get to see all the bumps and knocks is the GW model where information comes out only the week before even if it's something they've been creating for a year+. Fantasy Flight Games is a good illustration of the middle-ground of process as when they announce things are coming in 6-8 months, they're generally already to the prototype phase. However, it's fairly typical for their timelines to slip by a quarter as there's hiccups or issues along the way.
The trick with a KS is you have to do your due diligence on the creator as by giving the money upfront for a concept (usually; a goodly chunk of this one is actually a known quantity now) you are now assuming a great deal more of the risk than in a retail transaction. Of the 17 projects I've backed (which is a tiny number compared to some), none of them have yet failed to deliver a product and outside of a few specific models here and there I feel I've gotten decent return on all of them. I won't pretend there's not a fair measure of luck in avoiding some of the campaigns I had an interest in, including the aforementioned Robotech one, but it's also just a basic "does this seem like the sort of person you'd hand money to?" question. If you find you have doubts about the creator or there's not sufficient enough trust to give them money up front, then retail is normally your better bet.
This one being something of a hybrid between a "true" KS around a concept and also being a way to get something that's pretty well-established muddies the waters a bit, but there's plenty of precedent in stuff being re-offered.
I almost bought the Nightmare Ram in resin when that came out too. It's like he's adding all my favourite models to the game. Fingers crossed for a Black Knight expansion!
I'm probably gonna get the gamblers chest as an add on too.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alendrel wrote: Dark Soups sits at about $5.4 million, and Exploding Kittens is the top gaming KS at $8.8 million.
As for Xmas: look at it this way, people can always say "This yeah, just donate to my KD fund!"
That's exactly what I'm doing! Asking for money off everyone and seeing what I can add on after. My dads already said he'll give me the money for the core game.
I wouldn't mind seeing all the various Knights get an expansion. Especially the black one and his attendants.
Storm Knight and his sword castle would make for an interesting expansion, as it was supposed to be a maze like tower climb up to the top to challenge him, right?
Speaking of attendants, I wonder if we'll see the Flower Witch and her disciples end up as part of an expansion, especially considering we've seen them done in plastic now.
@Highlord I'd wager that Storm Knight will be saved for Poot's dungeon-crawl secondary game. He's hyped a random dungeon-crawl forever, and that Tower/Maze is a very fitting concept.
PsychoticStorm wrote: I don't think we will, I am not sure he has anything planned for the amount we hit, he already improvises on that, for example the female first hero model.
By improvises I mean he adds stuff he didn't plan for because he has the luxury with the amount of money that has been gathered.
Indeed. I think he'll be more disciplined than last time. Or at least, I hope so...
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: @Highlord I'd wager that Storm Knight will be saved for Poot's dungeon-crawl secondary game. He's hyped a random dungeon-crawl forever, and that Tower/Maze is a very fitting concept.
The Storm Knight already exists in plastic, so I expect to see it sooner rather than later.
Also, my personal speculation is that KD: Labyrinth (the hero focused game) will be using the Holy Lands and the models based there as its focus.
Moopy wrote: I wonder if we'll even see stretch goals. Right now, I don't think we will in any traditional sense.
Pretty sure he's said that we've unlocked everything he planned, and then kept on trucking. He's just pacing out everything because we still have 40 days to go.
Yeah, but a "surprise & delight" freebie would normally be something that one can normally play in the game. Like an alternate (female?) sculpt of the Twilight Knight - that would have been great!
Oh, don't get me wrong, I don't mind that he's making SF counterparts. I just don't think that they're executed nearly as well as the Fantasy originals, nor do they match the other components in the core game. For me, it's a worthless add that I would desperately love to exchange for just about any other plastic pinup in the fantasy range. Even a male pinup.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Oh, don't get me wrong, I don't mind that he's making SF counterparts. I just don't think that they're executed nearly as well as the Fantasy originals,
The sci-fi versions are better than the fantasy versions.
Adam throws in a few more in the Advent Calendar and I might have to buy it. ~sigh~
Krinsath wrote: A handful of pin-ups may have a gear card or similar promo item that a collector may want, but no other gameplay purpose.
The game itself, however, can be quite graphic. How good/bad that is depends on your friends of the fairer sex there; the one I played the intro scenario with managed to hit the lion, draw the groin hit location and rolled a natural crit. For that specific hit location doing that castrates the lion, gives you a special resource of his removed gonads and makes the lion very, very angry. The next round it decapitated her survivor, and the lion died shortly thereafter. Without delving too much into the story, since a survivor died we had to choose how we treated the dead in our settlement, to which she quite vociferously shouted down one of the options and the campaign could begin.
Little synopsis of the game there; the amount of storytelling that occurs just from playing is quite remarkable.
Meant to say thanks for posting this
I'm.. lost for words Honestly, this sounds like simultaneously the worst and best game that I have ever heard about!
It sounds tremendously entertaining, even if some of the content is a bit close to the line of being acceptable!
I really really love the sci fi versions, I do hope we get an option to purchase them because going to GenCon is almost an impossibility for me at the moment.
So someone on Boardgamegeek found this buried in a May KS comment from Adam Poots.
Since stuff like the Nightmare Ram is coming up next in this KS, it probably gives away a fair amount of what we're amount to see...
"So! In the vein of embracing the insanity, Here are some things I am excited to see on the horizon of Kingdom Death. Consider it a soft-announcement of the things that inspire me to work every morning.
KDM - Nightmare Ram Expansion
KDM - Ringtail Fox Expansion
KDM - Black Knight Expansion
KDM - Gryphon Expansion
KDM - Frogdog Expansion
KDM - Lantern Festival (being reworked from the ground up, might focus on towns instead of settlements)
KDM - Storm Knight Expansion (how a survivor can become a hero)
KDM - Custom Campaign Book (for mixing our current expansions, supported with new story events)
KDM - Rust Ocean (area where Architects are from)
KD:Q - Kingdom Death Quest, a PVC game for mass market (gonna try distro with this!)
KD:T - Titan, a deck building game, its perspective far pulled far back to the greater entity level.
KD:L - Labyrinth, the game that highlights Twilight Knights, White Speakers and other hero level classes.
KD:2D - A retro cinematic platformer, with GORGEOUS hand made sprite animation.
MALE PINUPS
Of course these are the far off projects that loom large and don't include the resin releases that I have the pleasure of working on everyday!
Will all of this see the light of day? Will the team rebel and overthrow me first? I certainly can't say for now, but it should be a lot of fun either way!"
I'd definitely be interested in a Black Knight, Storm Knight, Gryphon, and Nightmare Ram expansion. Nightmare Ram expansion is pretty much a given based on the last update.
The frogdog is one of the most bizarre things I've ever seen.
Quick FYI: KD: Hero is KD: Labyrinth. Basically Hero was the rough working name when he started mentioning it, but then it later firmed up about the time of the quoted updated (which was KD Update email #15) to Labyrinth.
I'd hope it was an improved box insert because the original one was as much use as a pile of wet tissue. Plus it was even less suitable if you had any expansions.
A new, better storage solution would be awesome. Mine was cracked in a few places, plus would be great if he figured a way to increase the height at the edges to allow for the box to be set up and the game board back in it (without having to jury rig something).
Looks more like a new plastic storage thingee for the box.
Interesting that the Ram will have narrative static figures rather than armor kits.
I agree that a way to organize settlement & survivors would be good.
I also agree that it's almost certainly an improved box insert, rather than the excessively fragile thing that broke during shipment. Hopefully, it's multiple parts / modular, to better organize things...
I like the "narrative" static figures better because they are better sculpted and posed than the armor kits. For a game that trades so much on its looks, it's a good move. Or split the difference with fixed legs & torso with swappable arms & heads.
Loopstah wrote: I'd hope it was an improved box insert because the original one was as much use as a pile of wet tissue.
It's almost certainly an improved box insert, rather than the excessively fragile thing that broke during shipment. Hopefully, it's multiple parts / modular, to better organize things...
Yep, mine was broken upon opening the box as well. Considering the quality of the rest of the components and the game itself, it was like buying a £100,000 sports car with wooden wheels.
The KS page comments move soooo fast.. I ask a question and I truly wonder if it will ever be found. Is anyone aware if the 1.5 change log will include any possible changes to expansions? Or is it purely the core game only?
Chopxsticks wrote: The KS page comments move soooo fast.. I ask a question and I truly wonder if it will ever be found. Is anyone aware if the 1.5 change log will include any possible changes to expansions? Or is it purely the core game only?
Pacific wrote: So is the Dung beetle knight expansion an extra scenario thing to be played with the game, like the Ram one?
Yes.
Core Game - everything you need, includes Survivors and "basic" Monsters.
Expansions - different, special Monsters, special rules for Survivors and their fights against the new Monsters. Not strictly necessary to play, just more variety.
Pinups & Narrative Survivors - things that look nice and can count as Survivors, with minimal gameplay adds, if any. Almost totally unnecessary to play, but great eye candy to look at.
The Dung Beetle Knight is an Expansion and plugs into the Core Game. The Dung Beetle Pinup can count as a Survivor, but doesn't really expand the game in any significant way.
Adam has said the Nightmare Ram's armor kit (the Alpine Armor) is going to be a seperate item from the expansion itself, something about how the amount of fur in it makes it not really compatible with the rest of the armor system.
Generally speaking, I kinda like the idea of a monster expansion having the 4 narrative survivors to build and use as is with the armor kit being an optional buy-in. Especially if it means the kits will be generally available.
As for monsters and how they function in the game: there are three basic types of monsters (with, of course, a weird exception or two).
First are quarry monsters: these are the ones you go hunt and collect their bits from to make gear and what not. In the base game, these are the White Lion, Screaming Antelope, and Phoenix. They each have full sets of armor and suites of weapons and gear made from their specific drops and are meant to be hunted multiple times each over a campaign.
Second are nemesis monsters, which show up to mess with your settlement for their own (or their master's) reasons. There': no Hunt phase since they come to you, and the reward for beating them is generally stop them from doing something bad to the settlement versus phat loot. In the base game these are the Butcher, Kings Man, and the Hand.
Finally are the boss monsters, which are a subcategory of nemesis, but they are the final fight of the campaign. In the current edition of the base game this is the Watcher, but with the new one it's becoming more of a mid-boss and the Gold Smoke Knight the new end boss.
So each expansion fits into one or more of the above roles. Roughly speaking, new quarry monsters don't have to replace the base ones, but practically speaking adding and hunting too many monsters means you will have a hard time completing their armor sets (important as complete sets give excellent bonuses) or farming specific drops for specific gear. Also, some have full armor kits and are intended to be hunted a lot, but they also introduced ones with more limited and specialized gear that are more suitable to hunting a handful of times.
"Full gear" quarry expansions include the Gorm, Spidicles, Dragon King, and Sunstalker.
"Limited gear" quarries include the Flower Knight, Dung Beetle Knight, and Lion God.
New nemesis monsters generally replace a base game nemesis outright. These include the Slenderman and Manhunter. The Lion Knight is a weird sort that is nemesis but doesn't take up your Showdown phase the turns he shows.
The two new boss expansions have already been mentioned: the Dragon King and Sunstalker. That's because they actually offer two ways to use them: either add them as huntables to the base campaign, or use their campaign variant which changes the starting narrative of the settlement and some of the rules for it works. For both monsters, they are not huntable in their special campaign mode but are instead the end bosses. In the Dragon King's campaign, his human form is also a nemesis monster.
Then there's the Lonely Tree, which is a once per campaign random fight that can show up in the Hunt phase.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and the Flower Knight also includes a campaign variant, though not as extensive as the Dragon King or Sunstalker and it remains a quarry rather than becoming an endboss.
So in the base game you hunt the same four monsters and then after 50 hours cap the campaign with a boss? Plus an occasional settlement fight? For $200 that's a bit underwhelming.
There are about 20 or so different ones. Each one at 3 levels each. The settlement phase show ups come once in a while. Death or Glory is pretty much the order of the day with that fight.
Of the 3 issued with that Lantern festival, we were all left hanging with an endgame all or nothing fight to the death against around 4-5 different expansions in that festival set. Though he says he is reworking it, I surmise that there will be a bit of a more ..... measured expansion selection... with that one. With each one roughly around 35-100, you can figure that there will be a more reserved measure of content... That one had the scribe, the king, and a few other ones that I forget, so- check out the figures in KD over at the site, and you can see for yourself the reason that he put the breaks on that one rather quickly... Thanks the accountants, I should think.
This is what Boardgame Geek said was in the proposed expansion at the time. Poots came back at the end and canceled the whole thing, and gave back refunds on it, TBD...
The game is an equal measure of feast and famine, depending on your choices, rolls, results of the combat/ events... Survival of the fittest takes on a whole new meaning.
Clanan wrote: So in the base game you hunt the same four monsters and then after 50 hours cap the campaign with a boss? Plus an occasional settlement fight? For $200 that's a bit underwhelming.
The AI mechanics allow for a lot of depth to each monster, and for each monster to play very differently from each other, and even for specific instances of the same monster to vary.
Each monster has its own deck of AI cards, consisting of Basic, Advanced, and Legendary cards (each group having more powerful abilities) and Special cards (which don't go into the deck put start in play to represent specific traits of abilities). Each monster (except the end boss) has three different levels, which determine its stats including how to build its AI deck for that fight. This means a given instance of a monster has a random subset of its overall possible abilities, but you don't know the exact mix. Decks for higher level monsters have more cards and a higher ratio of the more powerful cards - and since the AI deck is its health pool, more wounds.
As a quick example, the Level 1 White Lion builds its deck with 7 Basic and 3 Advanced cards and has no modifiers. A Level 2 White Lion builds its deck with 10 Basic and 5 Advanced, moves faster, is harder to wound, rolls more dice and does extra damage with its attacks - and has a Special card that says at the end of each of its turn, if there is a survivor adjacent to it, it basically grabs them and drags them away from everyone else, doing damage and knocking them down - adding a whole new dynamic to the fight. The Level 3 Lion has even more cards, stat boosts, and an additional passive ability.
And that's the *simpliest* monster in the game. There is very much a learning curve to each monster, interactions with the gear you have (crafting being its own mini-game), abilities you may have from choices made regarding settlement development and innovations, and so forth.
Clanan wrote: So in the base game you hunt the same four monsters and then after 50 hours cap the campaign with a boss? Plus an occasional settlement fight? For $200 that's a bit underwhelming.
Aside from the monster models being *awesome*, and having a zillion options to build your survivors, maybe. Can you show me another game with better models quality and value? Hell, ignoring the game a la Imperial Knights Renegade, can you show me a set of model kits of comparable quality and value?
Clanan wrote: So in the base game you hunt the same four monsters and then after 50 hours cap the campaign with a boss? Plus an occasional settlement fight? For $200 that's a bit underwhelming.
There are differences.
Each monster has different "levels" that you can hunt them at, and higher levels tend to give them more static abilities that completely change the fight. For example, the lvl1 Lion is quite vanilla and is pretty dangerous. The lvl2 Lion gets a static ability where at the end of turn, it grabs and drags a survivor. The 'personality' suddenly shows up and you're doing a strange dance around the enemy making sure weak players don't get killed, sidestepping out of the way, etc.
Pacific wrote: So is the Dung beetle knight expansion an extra scenario thing to be played with the game, like the Ram one?
Yes.
Core Game - everything you need, includes Survivors and "basic" Monsters.
Expansions - different, special Monsters, special rules for Survivors and their fights against the new Monsters. Not strictly necessary to play, just more variety.
Pinups & Narrative Survivors - things that look nice and can count as Survivors, with minimal gameplay adds, if any. Almost totally unnecessary to play, but great eye candy to look at.
The Dung Beetle Knight is an Expansion and plugs into the Core Game. The Dung Beetle Pinup can count as a Survivor, but doesn't really expand the game in any significant way.
Many thanks for that, very useful to know
Starting to see how this can be so expensive, although it does look like you get a tremendous amount of content at the $250 level.
Guys, with the add ons do we need to increase our pledge before the kickstarter ends to get them? Or is it the same as other kickstarters I've backed where you add to your pledge afterwards with the pledge manager thing?
Clanan wrote: So in the base game you hunt the same four monsters and then after 50 hours cap the campaign with a boss? Plus an occasional settlement fight? For $200 that's a bit underwhelming.
As others have mentioned, there's radically different levels of monster. While the random nature of the battles can mean that fights are very short in either direction, typically against the survivors but not always, the higher-level monsters can take quite a while. I recall hearing Adam mention a level 3 Phoenix battle that took hours on its own.
For something a bit more verifiable on length of time, in an interview with Tech Raptor at GenCon '15 he said that it took the playtest groups about a month to get through a successful campaign, and that those people were playing the game as a job at 40 hours a week (relevant quote is at 9:55 in the linked video if I didn't do the URL right). The estimate is thus about 160 hours and if you listen further it was typically the third campaign that was actually successful. Adding all that time up and if a group sticks with it, that's more along the lines of 200 hours to get through the base game. The unaccounted for factor in that number is if they were doing any "hobby" things with assembling/painting miniatures. I would suspect not, and for some people that's not an activity the group would do more than once. Still, just the monsters that come in the base game are going to add another chunk of hours. There's lots of meat on that bone, in other words.
On the extreme end for hypothetical number crunching, let's say the top-end cost for "useful" content is $1,666. Let's assume you have a gaming group that takes 160 hours to get through one successful campaign, and after you have your winning plan you cut the time by half (so 80 hours for later ones). You have 2 variant campaigns, and I wouldn't be shocked to have 2 more added in this campaign since we know the Lantern Festival models are likely to make an appearance. That's a total of 320 hours in additional campaigns (4x80) plus your initial one (160) plus a lowball guesstimate of about 40 hours to assemble everything (it's a ton of stuff at the "everything" level). That's a total of 520 hours which for people playing the home version is a bit shy of 22 days of non-stop gaming, and we're not really factoring in failed campaigns and one-off "let's just fight a monster" sessions. Putting that 520 hours into further perspective, if a gaming group meets weekly for 4 hours, it will take them 130 sessions or two and a half years to play through all the content. I think the average gaming group will give out before the content well does, honestly.
It's a huge outlay for an individual, sure, but a gaming group is eyeing an excellent eventual return on investment, presuming they enjoy the game. That's really the tricky part. If you don't like the randomness and you don't like that survivors are expendable it could be a frustrating experience to avoid. The game is designed very much to screw with you and wreck your plans and give you no choice in the matter (other than ignoring whatever rule, which...it's your game, ignore it if you want!). The goal was the if you reach the end in spite of the obstacles, you've defeated a difficult challenge that not many people could do, and it's been quite evident that the odds were never in your favor.
Eh... he's pretty good, but I think I kinda' burnt out on singles. They're just a pretty bad return considering how much game content you can get for a monster (for instance, looking at what's been announced, 3 little guys, or 1 monster and 4 little guys and 8 bugs (maybe models maybe tokens, probably models) and something nearing 150 cards for $5 less.
I feel like it's getting into that GW realm of people think it's a good deal because it's discounted, and not because it's a good deal.
Or maybe I'm just not the audience for expensive singles since (unless it's phenomenal) I'll generally grab whatever I feel has the best return in volume/content, from what I like.
Okay, I see how the content can last awhile. I think my assumption was that fights would be relatively quick and repetitive (like most games) whereas here, fighting a single monster can take hours and can be different each time.
So if the tactical combat is interesting, then those fights will be interesting.
I'm still on the fence. I'm holding onto a Black Friday $200 pledge but I'm leaning toward bowing out.
There are a lot of playthrough videos and Campaign write ups out there, I'd suggest checking them out.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And as much as we talk about the fights, there is also the whole civ-style settlement management. What tech/social innovations will you develop? What gear will you craft? When do you start stockpiling resources for a new settlement location (unlocking more gear and settlement actions)? Will you bury your dead or eat them? Will you try to breed more survivors this turn or bang on the drums to try and cure a disorder of an otherwise powerful survivor?
Clanan, each session (development, events, one fight) takes around 1-3 hours, depending on experience, options, and difficulty, in a 20+ session campaign, so, yeah, there's a lot of content.
The mechanics of the fight might make things wildly different each time as the monster's "wounds" are also the AI deck. You can end up in a scenario where only the nasty cards are left, and thus are constantly being cycled (akin to the "enrage" mechanic common in MMOs), or you may luck out and the early wounds took out those bad things; as they're discarded face down you don't really know what you've taken out of the monster's abilities. Nemesis showdowns also play out very differently from hunts, and there's a definite list of strategies to pursue with all the monsters where one tactic is better for Monster X but a miserable failure for Monster Y. Not trying to give spoilers, but there are resources that can be gathered from hunting particularly monsters that are of use in countering other monsters. Gathering those resources means that less energy is going into killing the monster though, which is typically a bad thing.
The finite number of hunts also plays into what they're talking about with all the "Civ" elements in that the players are called upon to make choices for their settlement. Do you hunt one type of monster exclusively to pick up a particular armor set or spread out the variety but forgo being able to get the top-end benefits? Do you spend the resources on a new location for the settlement or on better gear? What do you do if your best survivors get killed during a Nemesis encounter? Which path do you take when on a hunt and presented with an option of what to do?
The above doesn't even really get into the gear affinity system and the progression of survivors. So while there's a high degree of "lethal random" inherent in the systems, there's also a vast amount of meaningful player choices to be made as well. It is definitely a scenario where good choices don't guarantee success, but bad ones will almost always guarantee failure. I won't say it's a unique game, but the overall experience I've had in my few play sessions marks it out as very different from most everything else I have.
Albino Squirrel wrote: Kinda lame that the Nightmare Ram expansion doesn't include an armor kit. I hope that isn't a trend going forward.
I agree; I don't mind if a "look" is just too detailed to make work well for modular parts (like fur) so they go with more static poses for the sake of increasing the detail. The mix-and-match part of building the survivors is one of the more fun parts for me though so I want truckloads of parts to add to the organizer I already have brimming with options.
A middle-ground like JHDD suggested earlier of a torso+legs part where you can swap in arms, weapons and heads would probably be a decent compromise as well.
Albino Squirrel wrote: Kinda lame that the Nightmare Ram expansion doesn't include an armor kit. I hope that isn't a trend going forward.
I agree; I don't mind if a "look" is just too detailed to make work well for modular parts (like fur) so they go with more static poses for the sake of increasing the detail. The mix-and-match part of building the survivors is one of the more fun parts for me though so I want truckloads of parts to add to the organizer I already have brimming with options.
A middle-ground like JHDD suggested earlier of a torso+legs part where you can swap in arms, weapons and heads would probably be a decent compromise as well.
Which is pretty much all the case here according to Adam - there is plans for a separate modular Alpine Armor kit, but it's prob not going to be as compatible with the overall armor kit system, all because of the large amounts of fur (and presumably it's layered/draping, as opposed to the White Lion armor which is small, relatively form-fitting pieces of fur).
Yeah, it's only because the nightmare Ram armour doesn't really work with the others and is being released separately. I don't think it's going to be a trend.
I'm a hardcore Monster Hunter fan, so for me, a fur-covered hunter with a Ram's head hammer sort of defines my memories of Monster Hunter Freedom Unite, specifically. :-p
I'm a hardcore Monster Hunter fan, so for me, a fur-covered hunter with a Ram's head hammer sort of defines my memories of Monster Hunter Freedom Unite, specifically. :-p
What ram headed armor were you using in MHFU?
Only furry sets I can think of are Blagonga and Kirin.
As a MonHun fan as well, the mix and match aspect was one of the things that immediately set Kingdom Death apart from just about all other tabletop games.
Albino Squirrel wrote: Kinda lame that the Nightmare Ram expansion doesn't include an armor kit. I hope that isn't a trend going forward.
It does include four survivor types, though. Can anyone tell me how big the Nightmare Ram mini is? I'm pretty sure I want to get this expansion, but $40 + $17 +$2 seems pretty steep for four people and a scary horse.
EDIT: Wait, does the Nightmare Ram not even come with some static pose guys?
Albino Squirrel wrote: Kinda lame that the Nightmare Ram expansion doesn't include an armor kit. I hope that isn't a trend going forward.
It does include four survivor types, though. Can anyone tell me how big the Nightmare Ram mini is? I'm pretty sure I want to get this expansion, but $40 + $17 +$2 seems pretty steep for four people and a scary horse.
EDIT: Wait, does the Nightmare Ram not even come with some static pose guys?
It comes with 4 monopose survivors - and in addition to the usual monster decks it also has cards and tiles for laying out its dungeon.
Think that actually sounds like a very reasonable price for an expansion, if it's a whole new campaign/story to play through and minis to go along with it.
Pretty much the going rate for a lot of other board games, and that's discounting how beautifully detailed slot of the miniatures are.
Pacific wrote: Think that actually sounds like a very reasonable price for an expansion, if it's a whole new campaign/story to play through and minis to go along with it.
Pretty much the going rate for a lot of other board games, and that's discounting how beautifully detailed slot of the miniatures are.
$40 for the Nightmare Ram expansion is the KS special price - once released its going to retail for $80.
Albino Squirrel wrote: Kinda lame that the Nightmare Ram expansion doesn't include an armor kit. I hope that isn't a trend going forward.
It does include four survivor types, though. Can anyone tell me how big the Nightmare Ram mini is? I'm pretty sure I want to get this expansion, but $40 + $17 +$2 seems pretty steep for four people and a scary horse.
EDIT: Wait, does the Nightmare Ram not even come with some static pose guys?
Yes, it says it comes with four mono-pose survivors. But I like the armor kits. Especially since I've been magnetizing them (like so: http://adventuresinminiaturegaming.blogspot.com/2016/06/kingdom-death-survivor-magnetizing.html). That allows me to use the same head for an individual survivor throughout a campaign, with whatever armor and weapons they are equipped with at any given time. That won't be possible with the Nightmare Ram expansion (if I decide to get it), and I'm hoping that isn't going to be a trend going forward, because I want the expansions to come with survivors that I'll be able to use and that will look right.
Albino Squirrel wrote: Kinda lame that the Nightmare Ram expansion doesn't include an armor kit. I hope that isn't a trend going forward.
It does include four survivor types, though.
Yes, it says it comes with four mono-pose survivors. But I like the armor kits. Especially since I've been magnetizing them (like so: http://adventuresinminiaturegaming.blogspot.com/2016/06/kingdom-death-survivor-magnetizing.html). That allows me to use the same head for an individual survivor throughout a campaign, with whatever armor and weapons they are equipped with at any given time. That won't be possible with the Nightmare Ram expansion
I'm hoping that isn't going to be a trend going forward, because I want the expansions to come with survivors that I'll be able to use and that will look right.
Huh? You can't convert the NR Survivors to magnetize the head?
IMO, the mono-pose minis look better. Compare the (smooth backs!) Unarmored Kit with the monopose starting Survivors.
ImAGeek wrote: Yeah, it's only because the nightmare Ram armour doesn't really work with the others and is being released separately. I don't think it's going to be a trend.
I don't see how that makes sense. Okay, so they pieces won't be interchangeable with the other armor kits. Fine. Why does that mean it has to be released separately from the expansion? And, of course, for extra money.
I still don't see anything to conclude, one way or another, whether or not this will be the case for all the expansions going forward. I hope it isn't.
ImAGeek wrote: Yeah, it's only because the nightmare Ram armour doesn't really work with the others and is being released separately. I don't think it's going to be a trend.
I don't see how that makes sense. Okay, so they pieces won't be interchangeable with the other armor kits. Fine. Why does that mean it has to be released separately from the expansion? And, of course, for extra money.
I still don't see anything to conclude, one way or another, whether or not this will be the case for all the expansions going forward. I hope it isn't.
Is it only to be a slow drip reveal of already achieved stretch goals for the next 39 days, with no new ones, or will there be new ones as well, for going $3+M over the last one listed?
Or has Adam noted that everything that was going to be achieved has been achieved?
Or has Adam noted that everything that was going to be achieved has been achieved?
More or less he alludes to this, he seems to do quality upgrades he never planned on doing because the money were not there when he planned it, for example adding a female first hero model to the first hero expansion.
He probably needs to get quotes and other things to create new stretch goals.
@Alphy - it's a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma.
Everything planned through $2M has been achieved, so he's just slow-rolling the reveals so he has something to say over the next 39 days. I suspect he's very busily reworking his unit costs based on higher volume to see what he can really afford to add on top of what he had originally planned.
JohnHwangDD wrote: @Alphy - it's a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma.
Everything planned through $2M has been achieved, so he's just slow-rolling the reveals so he has something to say over the next 39 days. I suspect he's very busily reworking his unit costs based on higher volume to see what he can really afford to add on top of what he had originally planned.
Sounds about right, and probably the smart thing to do as well...
And the project delivery includes that Dec 2020 Wave 4 for exactly that kind of "we blew through every we thought reasonable and past what we hoped for and are into WTF do *now*???" scenario. They prob just figured that would be "last week or so of campaign" territory, not "a few hours in."
We pretty much know there's going to be significantly more than $627 worth of planned add-ons (that's the break even on the Gambler's Lantern pledges), so they had a bunch lined up already. It will be a few weeks of those being revealed, while they do some frantic number crunching to see what "slated for another time" projects they can bring forward.
JohnHwangDD wrote: @Alphy - it's a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma.
Everything planned through $2M has been achieved, so he's just slow-rolling the reveals so he has something to say over the next 39 days. I suspect he's very busily reworking his unit costs based on higher volume to see what he can really afford to add on top of what he had originally planned.
Sounds about right, and probably the smart thing to do as well...
I suspect a lot of it is just people wanting to make sure they actually *get* it, given that in all likelihood the game will once again sell out before it hits retail, especially for these absurdly low prices (remember that RRP was going to be $400 for the core box).
I suspect a lot of it is just people wanting to make sure they actually *get* it, given that in all likelihood the game will once again sell out before it hits retail, especially for these absurdly low prices (remember that RRP was going to be $400 for the core box).
Well, he's going to know exactly how many he's selling that the KS price before manufacturing is ordered - so he's also going to be ordering more to have on hand for sale after fulfillment (kinda the point of the KS!).
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JohnHwangDD wrote: I kinda doubt KDM will ever hit retail, as in something you'd find in a game store via regular games distribution.
Retail in KD context means "Order from their webstore whenever it's in stock, not get it from a KS campaign run every 3-4 years"!
Oh, OK, yeah. Although at this point, Adam will probably have the operating knowledge and funds in hand to restock on an annual basis. KD 2.0 reprint & upgrade next year!
Didn't see it covered, Bob, there are a lot of people on BGG who are only interested in game content- it should be pretty easy for you to find someone who wants your rules if you're only interested in the minis.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Oh, OK, yeah. Although at this point, Adam will probably have the operating knowledge and funds in hand to restock on an annual basis. KD 2.0 reprint & upgrade next year!
He needs room to get cracking on KD: Labyrinth and KD: Titan!
I... kinda' think he doesn't. I'd much prefer the first game be very stable before another one sees a lot of design time, than 2-3 games simultaneously designed with split attention, considering his expansions already saw lower standards than the core.
The pinup is nice, and an improved tray is great news. The Scout is kinda cute, and a good change to gameplay with an added risk / reward mechanic for fights.
This KS is so confusing. What is the Advanced KD:M book? is it an add-on purchase I missed?
Under the description it says +A bunch of pages to the Advanced KD:M Rulebook, so is the scout of death the Advanced book, or is it adding more pages to it???
The Advanced Rulebook is the manual in the Gambler's Chest with a bunch of rules variants and options to modify the base game engine, supported by cards and models and possibly other components.
Under the description it says +A bunch of pages to the Advanced KD:M Rulebook, so is the scout of death the Advanced book, or is it adding more pages to it???
Well, you kinda need to read the whole update....
Advanced KD:M is a supplement to the Core Rulebook.
AKD:M is included in the Gambler's Chest (+$100).
The Scout is one item that is detailed in AKD:M, just as the Watcher is detailed in Core KD:M. Presumably, there will be more items in there, TBD. ____
Automatically Appended Next Post: And now I see the model itself. It reminds me of that scene on Hoth, but instead of Luke freezing it's the whole rebel alliance, and instead of a Tauntaun, they had a Bantha. Also, it has faces made from those fatty tumors dogs get when they eat a lot of margarine.
PsychoticStorm wrote: So, no gamblers roll because some people on twitch didn't kill the phoenix?
According to the comments, they tried twice and lost twice. So no reveal tonight. Disappointing and, if I'm honest, a bit of a bizarre way to do a reveal...
26 rolls to be made 38 days to go I guess we will see them all in the end if he does not tie more rolls on such events I heard in the comments he does not roll on Sunday-Saturday, that reduces the rolls to be made to just 28.
Don't know I guess its interesting to cross promote the channels that support him, but makes me feel uneasy.
This bs is half the reason I dropped my Satan's Lantern. I couldn't imagine dealing with 4 years (or more) of this gak before I got everything I pledged for.
I am almost sure he will reveal all gamblers contents by the end of it and do a great work on the game and its contents and waiting for it, I have no problem, he stands for quality over speed, something others should also do, for example Mantic.
The entire Gambler's Chest is unlocked, the only thing being paced out is the reveals. If, somehow, near the end of the campaign there's still several unrevealed bits, I have absolutely no doubt he's going to reveal what's left in one go. If nothing else because he's tired of making a bunch of rerolls!
PsychoticStorm wrote: So, no gamblers roll because some people on twitch didn't kill the phoenix?
According to the comments, they tried twice and lost twice. So no reveal tonight. Disappointing and, if I'm honest, a bit of a bizarre way to do a reveal...
But it is the perfect way to pace out the reveals to avoid mid-campaign doldrums. He's still revealing something new everyday. He'll probably skip weekends to stretch everything further so it's not 40 days of absolute silence or "yeah that's everything".
I'm actually getting less enthused about the 1.5 update. A sturdier tray is pretty useless, because the tray isn't big enough to hold even the expansions I already have, so I need a different way to store anyway. And it's going to make for a huge box and higher shipping charge.
I initially liked that it included a hard back rule book, but if there's really only a single new page of rules, I'd rather just have the new page and not pay so much for it and for shipping. But if there are a lot of little changes throughout then it will definitely be better to have a new rule book.
Some more elaboration would be helpful; a quick skim of their most recent updates though does show some similarities so I can see your viewpoint.
In this particular case, I think Adam is indeed a businessman. He was handed $2M in 2013 and delivered most of the product in excess of the original pitch, just at a slower pace than predicted. Given the nature of HIPS tool-cutting being a year-long process normally, I'm more willing to extend a mulligan on the timeframe shift. He also accomplished that change through I believe an additional investment of $700K+ of monies raised by the company itself reportedly in a full year of sales. For a small boutique creator that basically only sells direct, that's actually a pretty substantial amount of revenue presuming it came from resources on hand and wasn't financed. Even if it was, selling out of the initial print run of KD:M likely repaid that which would still qualify as "good business". Compared to some creators who cleared 7 figures (Palladium Books, we're looking at you), KD:M was a delayed, but still very successful project. In this regard it seems starkly different to Creature Caster.
In my view, Adam's issue isn't that he is a bad businessman, his issue is he's a perfectionist with complete control. He doesn't have the person who can say "No, this is far enough" around, so he's free to push as far as he thinks he can. On the one hand, this has typically worked out to supporter's benefit as it results in higher quality. On the other, it does mean that a minor hiccup can delay things far more than it ought to because it has to be "fixed right" when many of the people he's making the game for would have been quite happy with the solution that was around three months ago but was only 90% of his vision.
That's a subjective thing though; if you're buying in for the miniatures, it's insanely annoying. If you're buying in to explore this bizarre world that is his vision, you want that extra bit of effort to go in. Nobody will be happy all of the time though.
I initially liked that it included a hard back rule book, but if there's really only a single new page of rules, I'd rather just have the new page and not pay so much for it and for shipping. But if there are a lot of little changes throughout then it will definitely be better to have a new rule book.
We know saviors are being nerfed, the Hunt Event Table being reworked, 2 pages for the new epilogue, 4 pages for the Gold Smoke Knight, and he has alluded to there being plenty of other tweaks.
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highlord tamburlaine wrote: I'm wondering how that new tray is going to get shipped out with all the upgrade kits.
If it happens to come in a new box (besides the gambler's box) then some of our storage issues will already be dealt with.
Has anyone asked how it's going to be dealt with?
I believe is not yet determined if the tray will be part of the upgrade kits.
No need to white knight so hard guys. I love the game, miniatures and setting. It's the thought of having to put up with his antics* for 4 years that puts me off the project. That, and wanting to buy other things instead
*("ha! Fooled you!" Stretch goals, random "ermagherds" in comments instead of answering questions or adding updates, not adding updates/content because some random person didn't kill a monster, etc)
I initially liked that it included a hard back rule book, but if there's really only a single new page of rules, I'd rather just have the new page and not pay so much for it and for shipping. But if there are a lot of little changes throughout then it will definitely be better to have a new rule book.
We know saviors are being nerfed, the Hunt Event Table being reworked, 2 pages for the new epilogue, 4 pages for the Gold Smoke Knight, and he has alluded to there being plenty of other tweaks.
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highlord tamburlaine wrote: I'm wondering how that new tray is going to get shipped out with all the upgrade kits.
If it happens to come in a new box (besides the gambler's box) then some of our storage issues will already be dealt with.
Has anyone asked how it's going to be dealt with?
I believe is not yet determined if the tray will be part of the upgrade kits.
Why do you say this? The graphic in the update shows 600k as the updated storage tray as well as saying the changelog is for the update pack and game.
My supposition is one of the later reveals is an expansion box that will be the size of the tray and the upgrade pack will ship in it.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I'm wondering how that new tray is going to get shipped out with all the upgrade kits.
If it happens to come in a new box (besides the gambler's box) then some of our storage issues will already be dealt with.
Has anyone asked how it's going to be dealt with?
I believe is not yet determined if the tray will be part of the upgrade kits.
So far this what Adam has said on the matter-
"I was planning on adding the insert to the upgrade pack. But it might be better for everyone if its optional. The insert is LARGE and will increase shipping by a non-significant amount. We'll figure that out, I am flexible on the matter, no worries."
Some more elaboration would be helpful; a quick skim of their most recent updates though does show some similarities so I can see your viewpoint.
In this particular case, I think Adam is indeed a businessman. He was handed $2M in 2013 and delivered most of the product in excess of the original pitch, just at a slower pace than predicted. Given the nature of HIPS tool-cutting being a year-long process normally, I'm more willing to extend a mulligan on the timeframe shift. He also accomplished that change through I believe an additional investment of $700K+ of monies raised by the company itself reportedly in a full year of sales. For a small boutique creator that basically only sells direct, that's actually a pretty substantial amount of revenue presuming it came from resources on hand and wasn't financed. Even if it was, selling out of the initial print run of KD:M likely repaid that which would still qualify as "good business". Compared to some creators who cleared 7 figures (Palladium Books, we're looking at you), KD:M was a delayed, but still very successful project. In this regard it seems starkly different to Creature Caster.
In my view, Adam's issue isn't that he is a bad businessman, his issue is he's a perfectionist with complete control. He doesn't have the person who can say "No, this is far enough" around, so he's free to push as far as he thinks he can. On the one hand, this has typically worked out to supporter's benefit as it results in higher quality. On the other, it does mean that a minor hiccup can delay things far more than it ought to because it has to be "fixed right" when many of the people he's making the game for would have been quite happy with the solution that was around three months ago but was only 90% of his vision.
That's a subjective thing though; if you're buying in for the miniatures, it's insanely annoying. If you're buying in to explore this bizarre world that is his vision, you want that extra bit of effort to go in. Nobody will be happy all of the time though.
Really interesting post, thanks I enjoyed reading it.
Im in the same boat, I am not ready to sit around for 4 years and wait for more KD:M, I will begrudgingly give Poots my $60 for an updated rulebook and cards, then hopefully forget all about this until it arrives.
Chopxsticks wrote: Im in the same boat, I am not ready to sit around for 4 years and wait for more KD:M, I will begrudgingly give Poots my $60 for an updated rulebook and cards, then hopefully forget all about this until it arrives.
2020 is the latest everything will ship. Core ships summer 2017. Its in the FAQ.
The core game/upgrade packs are in production - prob not being printed/manufactured until after the KS so he has numbers to order, but tooling, layout, proofs and proofing, and those kinds of things are all underway, so the Summer 2017 for Wave 1 is likely fairly reliable. Waves 2 and 3 have a much better likelihood of slipping, and Wave 4 is entirely a CYA guess.
My guess:
* Wave 1 will slip into Q3, possibly early Q4.
* Wave 2 might be "on time", and
* Wave 3 should be slightly early.
* Wave 4 should be early
Wave 1 can start additional tooling on Jan 15, but quantity won't be known until mid-March, when Surveys and PM close. That just isn't enough time to get *HUGE* production volumes finalized and popped and boxed and shipped. So I feel like Wave 1 will delay by at least 3 months. Iif the rules aren't already "done", that's going to be even later.
Wave 2+ where Adam has time to get control of things, but it's hard to say for sure.
JohnHwangDD wrote: My guess:
* Wave 1 will slip into Q3, possibly early Q4.
* Wave 2 might be "on time", and
* Wave 3 should be slightly early.
* Wave 4 should be early
Wave 1 can start additional tooling on Jan 15, but quantity won't be known until mid-March, when Surveys and PM close. That just isn't enough time to get *HUGE* production volumes finalized and popped and boxed and shipped. So I feel like Wave 1 will delay by at least 3 months. Iif the rules aren't already "done", that's going to be even later.
Wave 2+ where Adam has time to get control of things, but it's hard to say for sure.
He has said that they are already in production for the main game I whoud not count on 4 being early I am getting the feeling that will be for the "OMG I need to add stuff to justify how much I am making"
Pacific wrote: Reading the KS page it sounds like the core box would potentially be part of that Summer 2017 wave.
But, no doubt that statement was made before the game jumped to $5 million. God knows what the final figure will be!
The KS is already at 5000+ of the core box game, that's going to take some serious production capability especially considering how much is in it.
The popularity of this KS is starting to hit news streams outside of wargaming now as well I've noticed
The previous estimates were tied to a $2M total. This is currently at $5.9M, with a minimum day of only $300k. Assuming the mid-campaign drop is offset by a final surge, the campaign will add $11.4M, for a final total of $17.3M. That's insane.
Adam produced 10,000 copies of the original core game, and will likely need to produce something similar just to meet backer demand, to say nothing of what he might stock for future sales.
KD:M hitting larger news is what keeps pushing the numbers up. 12,600 backers and likely to finish with closer to 20,000 backers.
Let's say that the worst case, it merely doubles the current total, and comes in at $11.9M That's still a ridiculous amount of stuff to process. No question Adam will need to do this in waves.
zedmeister wrote: If those figures come to pass, can you imagine the last few days? It'll be mental and goodness knows what he'd be able to unlock...
I'm not sure how much more will actually be getting unlocked over what's already been unlocked (and not shown) and what was planned to be in this campaign.
I don't think Adam wants 'Wave 4' to be a big deal, or even ship that far out...
And that's where it gets dangerous... You dont want Adam brain storming new things to just fill extra stretch goals, thats how you get a 2025 delivery date.
zedmeister wrote: If those figures come to pass, can you imagine the last few days? It'll be mental and goodness knows what he'd be able to unlock...
I'm not sure how much more will actually be getting unlocked over what's already been unlocked (and not shown) and what was planned to be in this campaign.
I don't think Adam wants 'Wave 4' to be a big deal, or even ship that far out...
I think Wave 4 is pretty much going to be "All stuff we planned to do another KS for later, but don't need to now."
Fooey, a Black Friday lantern opened up, but was gone by the time I could pledge :( I think I may wait till later to pledge, just in case they add any other special pledges for xmas or New Years. $250 is a lot, but I always regretted missing the first edition.
So it's got 17 sprues .. how many minis is that in total? I think I counted 39? Is that like tons of different characters, or in the game do you just have those 4 survivors, and there's a whole bunch of different versions of them with different gear, so you change to the next model as they get tougher?
Chopxsticks wrote: And that's where it gets dangerous... You dont want Adam brain storming new things to just fill extra stretch goals, thats how you get a 2025 delivery date.
Which is why I for one am glad he decided to slow roll the stretch goal reveals. I love the game, but 2020 is plenty far out for me. Just take the money, and release the new stuff he plans next in the store.
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Necros wrote: Fooey, a Black Friday lantern opened up, but was gone by the time I could pledge :( I think I may wait till later to pledge, just in case they add any other special pledges for xmas or New Years. $250 is a lot, but I always regretted missing the first edition.
So it's got 17 sprues .. how many minis is that in total? I think I counted 39? Is that like tons of different characters, or in the game do you just have those 4 survivors, and there's a whole bunch of different versions of them with different gear, so you change to the next model as they get tougher?
Pretty sure 39 is right. You'll only ever need 4 on the board at any one time unless you play with extra people. To be honest they're essentially glorified tokens- you can build them however you like with whatever gear. It's generally irrelevant to the game. Only what you count as being on your gear grid and altered stats matter. I should note you do have a "population" of survivors instead of just your hunters, but for the most part only their gear matters.
zedmeister wrote: Indeed. Didn't he talk about an idea for a game called Kindgom Death: Hero or similar? Where you play out the game hunters and the like...
Hero was the working/fan-assigned name for the character focused game where you play Twilight Knights, White Speakers, and other people of relative power (compared to the survivors of KDM). The more formal name for it is now KD: Labyrinth.
[quote=Alendrel 503919 9050304 nullHero was the working/fan-assigned name for the character focused game where you play Twilight Knights, White Speakers, and other people of relative power (compared to the survivors of KDM). The more formal name for it is now KD: Labyrinth.
You're sure it isn't KD: Quest?
I wonder if First Hero expansion is a step in that direction?
Also, no Wave 4s. The cheque for my Lantern Festival says it's a really back idea for Adam to Just-Make-gak-Up(R).
Yes, at one point he did say Hero = Labyrinth. Quest is a separate game idea, for something FLGS friendly.
As for Wave 4: Adam is making everything up. The reason wave 4 exists is so that anything that gets added beyond the original scope of this KS's stretch goals will have its own dev cycle beyond the ones for the Gambler's Chest and slated for the KS expansions.
Chopxsticks wrote: And that's where it gets dangerous... You dont want Adam brain storming new things to just fill extra stretch goals, thats how you get a 2025 delivery date.
This is one of the reasons I like that he's not revealing all unlocked items just because the target number was hit. if everything was revealed and the pledges kept coming in, the pressure to add more would probably be too great to resist.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: On the subject of getting only the pinups I asked Adam and got a really fast response (must have hit the top of his inbox just right
Me
I'm passing on a question from several people from a couple of forums i'm on
Can they pledge for just pinups without picking any of the upgrade or game levels?
Kingdom Death
I’ll make an options only pledge level later in the campaign. For now they are welcome to pledge $1 and join the fray!!
Hopefully this will be better thought out than the add on pledge for the first campaign. I'm going to assume it's safer to piggyback onto another's pledge for now.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I'm going to assume it's safer to piggyback onto another's pledge for now.
The risk of that is in how long it will take for Poots to fulfill this kickstarter. People move, forget, change lifestyles, etc., etc.
Poots should have had a pinup only pledge option from the start, but suggesting a $1 pledge as a holding place until he gets one set up is adequate as long as he doesn't take forever to get it set up.
fyi, Mythic Battles Pantheon has some sculpts that can be used in KD:M as alternate sculpts for the other levels of monsters. Haven't looked closely at the Gods to see if they could be used for monsters as well.
Pacific wrote: Reading the KS page it sounds like the core box would potentially be part of that Summer 2017 wave.
But, no doubt that statement was made before the game jumped to $5 million. God knows what the final figure will be!
The KS is already at 5000+ of the core box game, that's going to take some serious production capability especially considering how much is in it.
The popularity of this KS is starting to hit news streams outside of wargaming now as well I've noticed
The previous estimates were tied to a $2M total. This is currently at $5.9M, with a minimum day of only $300k. Assuming the mid-campaign drop is offset by a final surge, the campaign will add $11.4M, for a final total of $17.3M. That's insane.
Adam produced 10,000 copies of the original core game, and will likely need to produce something similar just to meet backer demand, to say nothing of what he might stock for future sales.
KD:M hitting larger news is what keeps pushing the numbers up. 12,600 backers and likely to finish with closer to 20,000 backers.
Adam has stated several times in the comments that the core game is already in production so there's no real risk in those buying the core game getting it late.
OVER $6 MILLION - WE HAVE SURPASSED THE SURPASSED SURPASSED FORM!
HOWEVER, THIS IS STILL NOT ENOUGH TO DEFEAT DESTINY!
https://ksr-video.imgix.net/assets/014/729/151/bdfe220de35ceceda18ebff8a311ab98_h264_high.mp4 Last night, I issued a challenge to TwitchGameNight. They fought bravely, even bringing in two KD designers to their aid for a second attempt vs a level 3 Phoenix. It was amazing! Everything had a tremendous amount of fun, truly another part of this campaigns legend! Thank you guys so much for being an awesome, fantastic and wonderful part of our community. You risked it all! And lost with magnificence! I am so impressed!
Now I honor the defeat in the best Kingdom Death way possible. Today there will be no changelog reveals and no Gambler's Chest Roll!!!!!
But... we still have a pretty neat expansion to share...
I PROUDLY PRESENT THE SCREAMING GOD!!!
A Lantern year 20 Monster, with a whole slew of cool things, read below! I forgot to mention in the big image that this has a few cards for the First Hero Expansion. This lets you use the First Hero Expansion to jump right to year 20 (if you beat the hero of course!) and get Hunting the Screaming God right away!
Before anyone panics about "losing" rewards, Poots has already mentioned everything will be revealed in it before the end of the campaign. My personal conjecture is that he'll have to roll twice or something before he'll reveal those spaces.
Personally I really like that, I was going to put all the normal kits together as complete sets anyway... this just makes the models look better. Does anyone really customise survivors from different armour parts? Wouldn't that be a problem in future campaigns? Or are you crazy enough to magnetise them all?
New comment from Adam, referring to today's update (which he wants to get out earlier): "Gonna talk a bit about Armor Kits too. We are certainly not killing them."
As long as any new armor kits end up in my gambler's pledge, I don't mind. The more the merrier!
Although I will say I'm liking the Final Fantasy IV Golbez/ Shovel Knight- looking Screaming God armor. If the static kits end up posed that dynamic I'll be cool with it.
Best of both worlds would be that the static sets have at least a few optional parts for regular survivor kits included on the sprue.
Think it's only really shovel-knight in the sense that it's a helmet with appendages and the colour of the armour, but kind of see what you mean
Lovely piece of art though, definitely got some talented artists on this project. I like the level of detail that goes into the individual pieces of equipment and weapons as well, is really something.
Screaming God looks like a must-buy. If the minis look anywhere near as good as that artwork, I'll be very happy.
Mymearan wrote: Personally I really like that, I was going to put all the normal kits together as complete sets anyway... this just makes the models look better. Does anyone really customise survivors from different armour parts? Wouldn't that be a problem in future campaigns? Or are you crazy enough to magnetise them all?
I love using the armor kits for conversions and blinging out other minis. The four survivors barely scratch the surface of the bounty those kits provide.
Me too, most use the armour kits assembled and just use an proximate proxy to work with. or make the model after a really memorable character and keep it like that.
Well sculpted well designed narrative sculpts will be far far better.
I think it had something to do with an event where you came across a room full of feet sticking from the floor or ceiling and then people would float away.
Don't want to spoil a hunt event for purists, so it's in tags-
Spoiler:
Rare hunt event where the faces change to feet. If everybody's insane they KNOW they're on the bottom of the world and fall into oblivion. Apparently taking the Survival of the Fittest will let you get a chance to save for an auto-event.
And he acknowledged forgetting to address armor kits in the update
Automatically Appended Next Post: Got this via PM:
Ah! I meant to put this in the update today.
Armor Kits are not going away. They are being treated as separate projects from the new expansions. It takes a lot of extra love and care to make sure they come out right as each new kit needs to be backwards fit to EVERYTHING that came before it.
I like the murderer figure. I've only thrown in for the base game, first hero, and screaming god xpacs, but a few more good drops like that and I'll have to add the gamblers chest too
Screaming god expansion is the first must-have of this campaign for me.
Sadly the murderer is just not working for me at all, the sculpt just gives off an "I'm a bit bored and lonely" vibe. Also, whats with the amount of blood flowing from the limb he is holding?
Doubtless I will be pledging for a a lot more than my current $50 by the time the KS finishes, but the campaign is a little hit and miss so far.
Is he working with a different sculptor? The Murderer and Young Survivor renderings don't look like they're done by the same person who did the earlier stuff.
Breotan wrote: Well, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. It just seems like a very different style in those sculpts.
They usually go through several revisions - we've seen some of the correspondence between a sculptor and Adam - so I'm sure it'll end up more akin to what we're used to.
The Murderer feels a bit out of place to me, a bit tame, considering the world of Kingdom Death. Though my first thought on looking at the artwork was that he reminded me of Joel from Last of Us.
Sadly the murderer is just not working for me at all, the sculpt just gives off an "I'm a bit bored and lonely" vibe. Also, whats with the amount of blood flowing from the limb he is holding?
Doubtless I will be pledging for a a lot more than my current $50 by the time the KS finishes, but the campaign is a little hit and miss so far.
To be honest, I'm glad there's nothing all that good in the Gambler's Chest. I hope there never is, because it is a lot more money to move up to a pledge that includes it, and I have no interest in the first hero expansion. I may just stick with the 1.5 upgrade the way things are going, as I already have enough expansions to give plenty of variety. Especially with the new ones not coming with armor kits.
But the Screaming God does look pretty good, and it sounds like Nightmare Ram will make for an interesting and very different encounter, so maybe I'll give in on those. I'll have to see what else becomes available, as I'm sure there will be a lot over the next month.
Sadly the murderer is just not working for me at all, the sculpt just gives off an "I'm a bit bored and lonely" vibe. Also, whats with the amount of blood flowing from the limb he is holding?
Why, how much blood should flow from a severed limb?
Doubtless I will be pledging for a a lot more than my current $50 by the time the KS finishes, but the campaign is a little hit and miss so far.
To be honest, I'm glad there's nothing all that good in the Gambler's Chest. I hope there never is, because it is a lot more money to move up to a pledge that includes it,
We have more than a month to see what the various items will include. For what is looking like a $15+M KS, I think Adam can make the upgrade and Gambler's Chest worth our while.
I'm feeling pretty jazzed about the Gambler's box myself.
New figures, new rules, a month to let them add stuff to it, and I get the feeling the dramatically locked 44/45 box should prove something interesting.
At the very least it's given me a daily dose of entertainment and wanting to see what the next update brings.
Sadly the murderer is just not working for me at all, the sculpt just gives off an "I'm a bit bored and lonely" vibe. Also, whats with the amount of blood flowing from the limb he is holding?
Doubtless I will be pledging for a a lot more than my current $50 by the time the KS finishes, but the campaign is a little hit and miss so far.
To be honest, I'm glad there's nothing all that good in the Gambler's Chest. I hope there never is, because it is a lot more money to move up to a pledge that includes it, and I have no interest in the first hero expansion. I may just stick with the 1.5 upgrade the way things are going, as I already have enough expansions to give plenty of variety. Especially with the new ones not coming with armor kits.
But the Screaming God does look pretty good, and it sounds like Nightmare Ram will make for an interesting and very different encounter, so maybe I'll give in on those. I'll have to see what else becomes available, as I'm sure there will be a lot over the next month.
You don't have to move up a pledge to get the Gambler's box; it's a $100 add-on.
Actually quite like the look (if that's the right thing to say!) of the murderer. He's had his 'climax', the thrill of murder having satisfied his psychotic desires, and now is on the downward slope after that. Knowing that it might be some time before he gets the chance to kill again, or perhaps at some level feeling a level of remorse for giving in to his twisted desires..
I'm feeling pretty jazzed about the Gambler's box myself.
New figures, new rules, a month to let them add stuff to it, and I get the feeling the dramatically locked 44/45 box should prove something interesting.
At the very least it's given me a daily dose of entertainment and wanting to see what the next update brings.
Very much so! All the stuff like that, the twitch games etc have been very entertaining.
A couple of interesting tidbits from Adam this morning.
-Armor kits, when they do show up, are going to be included in the Gambler/ Satan pledges that get all the new add ons.
-A new pledge tier showed up, which was going to be closed, but now is a complete mystery as to what you end up getting. Look for the True Form Satan's Lantern pledge. Limited to 6!
I think the murderer looks fine, but for me I'm just gonna be sticking to the core game and not getting any add-ons right now.. too rich for my blood as it is, but too tough to resist. Always regretted skipping the first KS.
TR: Does the already incredible success of the Kickstarter mean that every number on the Gambler’s Box will be revealed? What happens if you roll a duplicate number that has already been revealed?
AP: Every number will be revealed. I haven’t rolled a duplicate yet. So I haven’t decided what will happen.
TR: A few people have expressed concern about the unknown value of some of the pledge levels. Do you have anything to say to the people who don’t know how much you packed into the first Kickstarter, or for those who think you may be playing it
conservatively?
AP: I mean… we did call it the Gambler’s Lantern… They will just have to wait and see.
TR: Is there any chance that new Settlement Events will make it into the 1.5 core box/upgrade pack?
AP: There are a few we revised. But we don’t have any new ones planned.
TR: What can you tell me about the Forsaker-dog-bird miniature shown at the end of the KS video?
AP: We will see the Frogdog at some point during this campaign.
TR: Multiple choice time: How many new expansions will there be?
A: 1 – 5
B: 6 – 10
C: 11+
AP: As many as we can manage of course! I know everyone is excited that we slammed dunked the funding to such an extent. It is amazing. However, I have to calm down and approach everything practically. Kingdom Death miniatures and content are very expensive to develop and I can’t put the company into hot water again. Our first campaign ended up much closer to a $4M total, all said and done. If it wasn’t for our strong resin sales and after campaign sales. We would have been toast. Too many people love the brand now, so I have to be much more fiscally responsible.
TR: A few people have expressed concern about the unknown value of some of the pledge levels. Do you have anything to say to the people who don’t know how much you packed into the first Kickstarter, or for those who think you may be playing it conservatively?
AP: I mean… we did call it the Gambler’s Lantern… They will just have to wait and see.
ced1106 wrote: AP: I know everyone is excited that we slammed dunked the funding to such an extent. It is amazing. However, I have to calm down and approach everything practically. Kingdom Death miniatures and content are very expensive to develop and I can’t put the company into hot water again. Our first campaign ended up much closer to a $4M total, all said and done. If it wasn’t for our strong resin sales and after campaign sales. We would have been toast. Too many people love the brand now, so I have to be much more fiscally responsible.
Wow. I knew Adam blew the budget on KD1 (2.0M revenue), but I didn't know that it was by that much. Adam might just be the only one that could afford to make that sort of error, and still deliver / refund AT ALL.
So, just making sure. Have any pledges below $777 actually seen anything added rather than just revealed as part of the print run that's already happening?
If not, $800-ish is a pretty absurdly high "sweet spot" level.
KDM Kickstarters aren't so much about adding loads of free stuff to the base pledge (well, not structured as such per se, but some do happen, especially when Adam has a wild idea and finds room on a sprue).
But the base pledge is a 20 lbs box crammed full of models and game for almost 40% off the very high retail - not a nigh crippleware base game that gets filled out with stretch goals.
KDM is much more about unlocking major expansions, with pinups and promos being fun things along the way.
Alendrel wrote: KDM Kickstarters aren't so much about adding loads of free stuff to the base pledge (well, not structured as such per se, but some do happen, especially when Adam has a wild idea and finds room on a sprue).
How exactly did you come to this conclusion, based on 1 tiny KS, 1 failed KS, 1 ongoing KS, and 1 KS that included bonus... off the top of my head, 6 extra 50mm monsters; 1 extra 100mm monster, 8 extra survivors, 2 exclusive models, 4 promo models (not counting additions to the base game); 2x$60 expansion monsters and another armor set and rules if you spent $300?
Alendrel wrote: KDM Kickstarters aren't so much about adding loads of free stuff to the base pledge (well, not structured as such per se, but some do happen, especially when Adam has a wild idea and finds room on a sprue).
But the base pledge is a 20 lbs box crammed full of models and game for almost 40% off the very high retail - not a nigh crippleware base game that gets filled out with stretch goals.
KDM is much more about unlocking major expansions, with pinups and promos being fun things along the way.
The Last KS was exactly that. WITH the added on cheaper/ less expensive add ons/ Expansions. The only reason, BTW that this one has the rabid following that it does at this time.
20LB box was only the Monster box. My unlocks was half of that size, and the expansions that I got along the way were 3d box at least a 2X2 30Lbs box full.
They weren't. IIRC 1(2?) mini was/were added to anyone who got the game as promo, 1 was added to anyone who made any physical pledge, and, as I described, 3 sets were a price threshold.
And the survivor extras weren't an available expansion at retail.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: One thing the Gambler's Box has over the survivor pledge is that there is actual game content to it this time around.
Well, if poots had followed through, the promo models from the KS would have gotten their free special scenarios instead of it being this awkward patch whatever thing that's non-exclusive gear and costs money.
OK. This is the Kingdom Death kickstarter campaign after all. I have decided I am rolling with it. True Form Satan's Lantern is now a mystery tier. I won't be revealing any details about it until the campaign ends. Pledge at your own risk. Every morning, if the tier is full. I will open another spot or two... or 6! I HAVE EMBRACED THE DARKNESS!
I admit it. That was an accidental post. However, if the 3 backers in the pledge level don't leave, I could maybe open it up and try to do something interesting / fun. But it would be at the peril of anyone that dares back it. Since, there are NO LISTED rewards on that level.
@LegolaSS, there will not be any more Gambler's Lantern pledge levels. I liked the suggestion of adding a "gamers lantern" tier, but that needs to wait until the end of the campaign. I can't shoot myself in the foot by over-promising (a trait i seem to have!) and then end up losing our resources developing and producing rewards.
@Freyaldo, neither you or I are VAT experts (tho I did spend 2 weeks reading about VAT law and policy) that is why I can confidently say the following: I do not know what the law will be when we start to fulfillment. Backers are responsible for paying any import fees, taxes, duties, VAT and any other fee's their government or post office has. EXPECT TO PAY THEM. If for some reason you don't have to, then that's awesome!
@Reaper, my plan from the start was to make the Gambler's Chest into a final for retail product. That makes my own SKU list and the more logistical side of the business much easier. It's yet to be seen how much the retail will have to be though. With the Gambler's Chest, I will be happy so long as we don't lose money on it! lol
@Andrew Huang, that lantern tower was a gift from a fan! There is a tutorial on youtube on how to make it. I suggest contacting this guy! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROQLa2eIPYw
@Brandon, there are no guarantees about how exactly the pledge manager will work until after the campaign ends. Last campaign, we ended up having to raise prices because I undervalued many aspects of the project.
So when the KS was announced I was like "yeah I don't know, too expensive". Now I'm suddenly watching all the BoW videos, reading the KS comments, reading the BGG forum, looking at unboxings and painted models on CMON, and planning how much stuff I can sell so I can pour all my money into as many expansions as possible... is this the effect KDM has on everyone? O_o
Mymearan wrote: So when the KS was announced I was like "yeah I don't know, too expensive". Now I'm suddenly watching all the BoW videos, reading the KS comments, reading the BGG forum, looking at unboxings and painted models on CMON, and planning how much stuff I can sell so I can pour all my money into as many expansions as possible... is this the effect KDM has on everyone? O_o
Mymearan wrote: So when the KS was announced I was like "yeah I don't know, too expensive". Now I'm suddenly watching all the BoW videos, reading the KS comments, reading the BGG forum, looking at unboxings and painted models on CMON, and planning how much stuff I can sell so I can pour all my money into as many expansions as possible... is this the effect KDM has on everyone? O_o
Those BoW vids are definitely worth watching. Quite long but definitely give people who have no idea about how the game plays, such as me, a sense of the mechanics. Also haven't seen Warren genuinely so excited about a game for some time, which is probably a good sign in that the guy must play practically every new game that comes along.
Mymearan wrote: So when the KS was announced I was like "yeah I don't know, too expensive". Now I'm suddenly watching all the BoW videos, reading the KS comments, reading the BGG forum, looking at unboxings and painted models on CMON, and planning how much stuff I can sell so I can pour all my money into as many expansions as possible... is this the effect KDM has on everyone? O_o
Yes. So far I've seen two people in my circle of friends who just demoed the game then went to buy their own copies. It's an amazing game.
Mymearan wrote: So when the KS was announced I was like "yeah I don't know, too expensive". Now I'm suddenly watching all the BoW videos, reading the KS comments, reading the BGG forum, looking at unboxings and painted models on CMON, and planning how much stuff I can sell so I can pour all my money into as many expansions as possible... is this the effect KDM has on everyone? O_o
Those BoW vids are definitely worth watching. Quite long but definitely give people who have no idea about how the game plays, such as me, a sense of the mechanics. Also haven't seen Warren genuinely so excited about a game for some time, which is probably a good sign in that the guy must play practically every new game that comes along.
So you haven't seen a BoW video before then? :-p I kid, I kid, but BoW is one of my guilty-pleasures, only because they are over-the-moon for literally any game they have ever touched in their lives. I own so much crap due to listening to them before realizing how incapable of candor they are. :-p
Mymearan wrote: So when the KS was announced I was like "yeah I don't know, too expensive". Now I'm suddenly watching all the BoW videos, reading the KS comments, reading the BGG forum, looking at unboxings and painted models on CMON, and planning how much stuff I can sell so I can pour all my money into as many expansions as possible... is this the effect KDM has on everyone? O_o
It's pretty much my experience in the broad strokes. I started way back before the first KS when I was eyeing the models on the website and just not having an interest beyond the Twilight Knight pin-up, and it seemed too expensive. I eyed the first KS for the longest while, being somewhat interested to see if that model would be offered, because I'd always missed out on the "o'dark thirty" posting of models and that seemed like a chance to maybe get in on a reliable order. If I'm being completely honest, I really didn't pay much more than a cursory glance towards the game itself until probably the post-Christmas period.
As I read more about the concepts I became more intrigued and decided to roll the dice on a "all game content" sort of pledge. With hindsight, it was probably one of my better gambles. Even with the delays, surprise shipping costs and the Lantern Festival's cancellation, which are all very important things to keep in mind for anyone eyeing this campaign without knowledge of those things, I can say that was definitely one of the most satisfying campaigns I've backed. That's saying something given that for many campaigns even one of those things happening would have torpedo'ed the whole project.
The real question is to ask if he is going to be adding other kickstarter Add on characters from other projects... Would be a bag of awesome to see a Kingdom Death Shadows of Brimstone add on, or something from one of the other ones...
I am going to take a moment to speak openly. I never, ever expected this kickstarter campaign to come this far. We are currently the 2nd highest funded tabletop game and the 8th highest funded kickstarter project of all time.
In fact, even with this secret unplanned goal here, I thought we'd hit it next week wherein I'd have a bit more time to get things prepared.
AHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Perhaps I have underestimated the power of the form that transcends the transcended transcended form?!
Anyway. Here is what is happening!
The Satan twins, now destined for hard plastic, are being added to all the Satan's Lantern pledge levels. While cannon to KD, they were an artistic challenge from the original kickstarter. Plus... they wouldn't really fight survivors in that form (for lore reasons). All other backer's have access to them as optional Add-Ons.
An expansion featuring their "final" form will appear during this campaign. If I had it ready now, I would certainly share it. But I don't! Apparently catching up on some much needed rest is a foolish for me right now! There was zero prior plan to include expansion during this kickstarter campaign, even in my most wild of funding expectations (which we have passed by the way)! I need to do some serious math, as I was planning a very LARGE monster. I'll have all the details together before I present it.
Gambler's Chest Roll
I made my roll for today and recorded it. I will be revealing it on Monday, along with Monday's roll. There will not be a roll on Sunday. I wasn't planning on having them on Saturday either (so I could catch up with messages) but I was staring at the dice and I couldn't resist!
Wow. I'm stunned at the entitlement displayed in the Update comments. I just can't wrap my head around people hating on Poots because he isn't showering them with freebees.
So many fething special snowflakes in this hobby. :(
Breotan wrote: Wow. I'm stunned at the entitlement displayed in the Update comments. I just can't wrap my head around people hating on Poots because he isn't showering them with freebees.
So many fething special snowflakes in this hobby. :(
Could just be that people still don't see the value in their current pledge level. Perhaps there shouldn't have been any early bird deals so the project would have grown at a less inflated rate. But then, who am I to question. If I hadn't set an alarm for the launch and missed the early birds I'd certainly only be a dollar backer at this point. Much like I was with Mythic Battles till the final 48hrs.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Tl:dr I think those who are complaining have pledged higher than they are comfortable to pledge at this stage because they're sat on "early bird" deals. That was also "the point" of the gambler pledges.
Mymearan wrote: So when the KS was announced I was like "yeah I don't know, too expensive". Now I'm suddenly watching all the BoW videos, reading the KS comments, reading the BGG forum, looking at unboxings and painted models on CMON, and planning how much stuff I can sell so I can pour all my money into as many expansions as possible... is this the effect KDM has on everyone? O_o
Those BoW vids are definitely worth watching. Quite long but definitely give people who have no idea about how the game plays, such as me, a sense of the mechanics. Also haven't seen Warren genuinely so excited about a game for some time, which is probably a good sign in that the guy must play practically every new game that comes along.
So you haven't seen a BoW video before then? :-p I kid, I kid, but BoW is one of my guilty-pleasures, only because they are over-the-moon for literally any game they have ever touched in their lives. I own so much crap due to listening to them before realizing how incapable of candor they are. :-p
Haha.. I think they do a good job of being excited about the hobby.
But, I've seen enough of their vids to differentiate the genuine enthusiasm. Especially considering that these apparently took a whole day to shoot, they must have been pretty tired.
Breotan wrote: Wow. I'm stunned at the entitlement displayed in the Update comments. I just can't wrap my head around people hating on Poots because he isn't showering them with freebees.
So many fething special snowflakes in this hobby. :(
Could just be that people still don't see the value in their current pledge level. Perhaps there shouldn't have been any early bird deals so the project would have grown at a less inflated rate. But then, who am I to question. If I hadn't set an alarm for the launch and missed the early birds I'd certainly only be a dollar backer at this point. Much like I was with Mythic Battles till the final 48hrs.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Tl:dr I think those who are complaining have pledged higher than they are comfortable to pledge at this stage because they're sat on "early bird" deals. That was also "the point" of the gambler pledges.
There's definitely an element of that in some people's concerns, I bet. With Christmas coming up, and end of year and start of year bills, some people will have to start looking real hard at the amount they've pledged and what they're getting for it. That's why I feel Adam should show a bit more now to cement that value in place and remove people's doubts. Then again, that's probably less of an issue at this point given how much money it's raised. Even a full 15% of backers dropping out won't have as much of an impact on the success of the project at this level.
I'm sitting at a $1300 Satan's pledge. I sold my first kickstarter for $2200. I know the value it had. The fact I get it back and all the new 1.5 stuff for $1300... it is a steal!
Some of the higher pledges are awesome values. Hell, I remember core sets going for $800 on ebay not too long ago. Any pledge with a core set and added expansions (look to be 50% off retail... dragon king was on ebay for $300 not too long ago), is a hell of a deal.
Needless to say I'm glad I will finally get my game back. I couldn't pass up the offer at the time, but always wanted to hunt some monsters...
Poots is a great guy, but im not sure why he takes the backers abuse in the comments... if I were poots I'd drop their pledges, block them from pledging again, and let them pay astranomical ebay prices for their abuse and entitlement. Poots passion for the game and making it available to anyone (no matter how immature they are in the comments) is just one of the things that makes Poots great
There have been some rule refinements and the rule book is now going to be hardback and a new mini has been added
if you've got the existing box game the $60 Lantern Upgrade pledge level get you all the new content, cards etc you need to upgrade the game (although the new box insert is going to add a bunch to the shipping cost so Adam is thinking of making that optional so if you don't want it or have already paid for a custom version you'll not pay a lot ,ore for something you don't need)
Darth Visari wrote: What the differecnce between the two kickstarter version of the game ?
Different/ more models ,reworked rules?
1.5 gets all of the stuff in the upgrade pack built in:
- hardback rulebook
- non-crappy organizer
- Gold Smoke Knight
- Young Survivor
and more TBD
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Breotan wrote: Wow. I'm stunned at the entitlement displayed in the Update comments. I just can't wrap my head around people hating on Poots because he isn't showering them with freebees.
To be fair, the complaints aren't unwarranted:
- $250 core game is definitely a good value, better with the 1.5 upgrades;
- $60 upgrade pack is argubably "fair" with the GSK included; but it's not awesome;
- $100 Gambler's Chest clearly needs more stuff
- giant pledges are not up to snuff yet.
There's a 30-ish days for the big pledges to grow into their value, and it's not unfair for backers to want that to be demonstrated more clearly within the next couple weeks..
I'd say the Gambler's chest is already worth it if you're in it for just the minis at least.
There's already 8 included and I'd say it's a safe bet that we'd get at least 2 or 3 more *minimum*, and when you consider most KD plastics are selling in the campaign for 15 each (which is already a discount over the store prices), you'll be saving at least 50 bucks if the figures are ever sold individually.
And that's not even accounting for the advanced rules the box will include, or the fact that there's plenty of reveals to come, and it wouldn't surprise me if there's more hidden stuff tossed in as we go.
Adam did mention that the Gambler's box was going to be done in lieu of typical stretch goals, seeing as how the base game is actually complete already.
If/when the Gambler's chest gets the additional 3 items, then it'll probably be worth it. But we're not there yet. If the campaign closed today, I'm not sure the large, non-Core pledges make their value. That's the issue. More rolls sooner, and fewer later, would alleviate the issue.
Oh yeah, $35 First Hero expansion is still just 1 model? Where $35 gets 4 models in Lion Knight, or a big monster in Gorm?
First Hero expansion is 5 minis... the villain and the 4 veteran survivors. Where does the idea about 1 mini come from? Anyways i'm at the 777 gambler pledge level and no, its not got the best value yet, but its getting better as we go. I'm sure it will b there by the end of the campaign.
JohnHwangDD wrote: If/when the Gambler's chest gets the additional 3 items, then it'll probably be worth it. But we're not there yet. If the campaign closed today, I'm not sure the large, non-Core pledges make their value. That's the issue. More rolls sooner, and fewer later, would alleviate the issue.
Oh yeah, $35 First Hero expansion is still just 1 model? Where $35 gets 4 models in Lion Knight, or a big monster in Gorm?
What? From what I gathered the First hero expansion is the "Monster" + the four survivors depicted on the artwork (one of which is shown sculpted
He's also mentioned they'll be adding another miniature to the First Hero expansion(or two?)- the one included is the 12 year hero, and he wants to add a 20 year Hero to it. Plus an alternate female hero, which I'm assuming will be the 20 year if not another alternate model.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I'd say the Gambler's chest is already worth it if you're in it for just the minis at least.
There's already 8 included and I'd say it's a safe bet that we'd get at least 2 or 3 more *minimum*, and when you consider most KD plastics are selling in the campaign for 15 each (which is already a discount over the store prices), you'll be saving at least 50 bucks if the figures are ever sold individually.
Yes, if you like the individual figures in the Gambler's Chest enough to have purchased them separately then it is definitely worth it, but I wonder just how many backers feel that way?
I've been buying KD figures since the first batch were released so it's safe to say that I'm a fan, but there are only one or two from the Gambler's Chest that I would have purchased individually. I get the impression that all or most of the items in the Gambler's Chest will be figures that Poot's didn't think would sell amazingly well on their own, alongside one or two yet-to-be-revealed big hitters that will make the GC a lot more desirable for people like me.
Mymearan wrote: So when the KS was announced I was like "yeah I don't know, too expensive". Now I'm suddenly watching all the BoW videos, reading the KS comments, reading the BGG forum, looking at unboxings and painted models on CMON, and planning how much stuff I can sell so I can pour all my money into as many expansions as possible... is this the effect KDM has on everyone? O_o
Those BoW vids are definitely worth watching. Quite long but definitely give people who have no idea about how the game plays, such as me, a sense of the mechanics. Also haven't seen Warren genuinely so excited about a game for some time, which is probably a good sign in that the guy must play practically every new game that comes along.
So you haven't seen a BoW video before then? :-p I kid, I kid, but BoW is one of my guilty-pleasures, only because they are over-the-moon for literally any game they have ever touched in their lives. I own so much crap due to listening to them before realizing how incapable of candor they are. :-p
Haha.. I think they do a good job of being excited about the hobby.
But, I've seen enough of their vids to differentiate the genuine enthusiasm. Especially considering that these apparently took a whole day to shoot, they must have been pretty tired.
Yeah these videos were shot in the day and a half I was there. Hence why there are some mistakes here and there since I was a) teaching them the game, b) trying to present it in an informative but fun manner, and c) keep the sense of fun and the tone of the game. Tough going but hopefully it will be easier when I go back in a few months to record the next lot of videos (we did 5 in a day and half, plus the backstage segment that was shown weeks ago). You also do see Warren and Justin change in their approach to the game in the next video or so.
I think that falls into the same fallacy as people who explode when GW characters "only" cost $20 instead of the usual $30. I don't think the value is good on its own, only relative to what they're able to charge for singles, so if they're not particularly desirable on their own, then it becomes a very different situation.
I'm on board for the gambler's silver level, but will probably jump ship for a couple hefty expansions if it looks like it isn't adding up. Currently in a similar place of not thinking it looks like a fantastic value, since none of the models have been home runs. I mean, they're nice, but I've already been converting my survivors to give them more character.
spiralingcadaver wrote: I think that falls into the same fallacy as people who explode when GW characters "only" cost $20 instead of the usual $30. I don't think the value is good on its own, only relative to what they're able to charge for singles, so if they're not particularly desirable on their own, then it becomes a very different situation.
I'm on board for the gambler's silver level, but will probably jump ship for a couple hefty expansions if it looks like it isn't adding up. Currently in a similar place of not thinking it looks like a fantastic value, since none of the models have been home runs. I mean, they're nice, but I've already been converting my survivors to give them more character.
I am really hoping the Gambler is included as a nemesis encounter. Also a quarry would be a nice addition.
If we're getting into wishlisting, I want those 3 skulls to be the 3 lantern festival monsters. That would have me basically forgive anything else I don't like about this KS, as I'd kinda' rather see what I already bought once included in the bundle I've tentatively gotten in to than some new thing and those being another expense if I want access.
Mymearan wrote: So when the KS was announced I was like "yeah I don't know, too expensive". Now I'm suddenly watching all the BoW videos, reading the KS comments, reading the BGG forum, looking at unboxings and painted models on CMON, and planning how much stuff I can sell so I can pour all my money into as many expansions as possible... is this the effect KDM has on everyone? O_o
Those BoW vids are definitely worth watching. Quite long but definitely give people who have no idea about how the game plays, such as me, a sense of the mechanics. Also haven't seen Warren genuinely so excited about a game for some time, which is probably a good sign in that the guy must play practically every new game that comes along.
So you haven't seen a BoW video before then? :-p I kid, I kid, but BoW is one of my guilty-pleasures, only because they are over-the-moon for literally any game they have ever touched in their lives. I own so much crap due to listening to them before realizing how incapable of candor they are. :-p
Haha.. I think they do a good job of being excited about the hobby.
But, I've seen enough of their vids to differentiate the genuine enthusiasm. Especially considering that these apparently took a whole day to shoot, they must have been pretty tired.
Yeah these videos were shot in the day and a half I was there. Hence why there are some mistakes here and there since I was a) teaching them the game, b) trying to present it in an informative but fun manner, and c) keep the sense of fun and the tone of the game. Tough going but hopefully it will be easier when I go back in a few months to record the next lot of videos (we did 5 in a day and half, plus the backstage segment that was shown weeks ago). You also do see Warren and Justin change in their approach to the game in the next video or so.
Well think you have been doing a pretty good job ! It's not like you are sitting down and explaining the rules for Exploding Kittens here.
And with the large (relative for other boardgame kickstarters) buy-in cost, people who don't understand the game will be prepared to watch the longer video format. Think it works well.
spiralingcadaver wrote: If we're getting into wishlisting, I want those 3 skulls to be the 3 lantern festival monsters. That would have me basically forgive anything else I don't like about this KS, as I'd kinda' rather see what I already bought once included in the bundle I've tentatively gotten in to than some new thing and those being another expense if I want access.
Does that make sense?
I know what you mean, but I doubt that'll happen. I expect the various parts of the Lantern Festival (game hunters, scribe, king) to return as parts of bigger expansions. They've already released a few figures to represent the game hunters' attendants on the website in resin. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see an expansion with game hunters as nemesis encounters, in which you fight the hunters alongside their retinue.
Sitting at an early bird update pledge, for now. The gambler's box doesn't really interest me at the moment. I do like the narrative sculptures, but the last thing I need is more Phoenix-armored survivors, even if they are in cool poses. The rest of those spaces will have to be pretty incredible to get me to reconsider it. Depending on my finances, I could definitely see grabbing a few more expansions by the end of the campaign, though.
I'm a huge fan of the bases of these narrative sculpts. Press-molding a dozen of the base set's stone face base inserts started to look same-y after a while.
Wasn't it mentioned that the armor sets will be independent of the expansions? I love the Mongolian-looking concepts, but I'd like to see a render before making a final decision.
I don't quite understand the Frog dog hate - I feel the 3 monster expansions revealed so far have all been rather dull on the actual creature, being just mutated animals with the usual hands/lanterns/nipples/genitalia. What's amazing about the goat/sheep that's horrible with the frog?
As an additional note, how are people feeling about the universally higher expansion prices, adding content to expansions they may already own, and no longer giving 50℅ off RRP? I'm... genuinely reconsidering if I can afford these multiple $50 expansions that may see minimal use.
The new expansions are 50% off the expected retail prices as the prices of the expansions in KS1 were a drastic underestimate
(and I wouldn't be surprised if the ended up retailing even higher, after all the dragon king is $150 and the content seems similar, even without sprue cost all those cards with uniqure art on them aren't cheap)
as to the Lion Knight expansion getting extra content I think it's pretty cool.
I've got the original so I can either live without the character sculpts (they're fun, but hardly essential), buy them for $25 for 4 which for KD prices is cheap (a single pinup is $15 at KS prices)
or most likely grab the whole expansion again for $35 (an extra $10 for the chance to build and paint the Lion Knight and his retinue again seems pretty cool and I might even be able to sell off the cards etc to one of the BBGers who wants the game but not the minis)
As to can I afford it all this time.... I know I can't (probably not even all the game content), that does make me a bit sad, but some KD is better than no KD (and maybe Adam will cave and offer another opportunity to throw money at him before the new expansions ship some time in 2018 even if the prices are higher, we can but hope)
I'm not quite sure how swamp dwellers make fancy suits of Mongol-style armour out of scraps of wrinkly, slimy Frogdog skin, but it's made this another expansion I must have.
Closing in on $7 Million. My mind is officially blown. If Adam handles the production side more efficiently than he did the first time, this could prove quite a windfall for his company.
Yeah, presumably they can leverage what they learned the first time around. That plus the fact that he's not including free shipping this time means things are going to be a hell of a lot easier for them financially.
Not only lessons learned but all the production elements for the first KS still exists (molds, print layouts, etc.) and the infrastructure already exists (plastics production, cards/box printing, shipping & distribution centers) so that will save a great amount of time and costs delivering the 1.5 boxes to pledgers. New product only needs R&D done as all the rest of the pipeline is in place and ready to go.
They'll also have a nice bonus to their margins just based on the amount they print, the more you print the cheaper it gets. If they planned on like 5000 copies originally and end up needing 15-20k, the cost per game is gonna be a whole lot cheaper.
They should add a special stretch goal at $8,782,572, to beat Exploding Kittens. Was there any other tabletop game that was higher than that? I think they'll beat that.. still a month to go plus the last 48 hours are prolly gonna be nuts.
I never felt Exploding Kittens fit in tabletop games, there is a playing card game category but it probably doesn't fit neatly into either. KDM 1.5 should beat it anyway.
Same. Lol, the wife and I are trying to convince our WiiU owning friend to purchase the game so we can drive the hour to their house and take a crack at it.
Chopxsticks wrote: "I promise an update a day" unless I decide to make a game not everyone can participate in and stop doing updates....
Indeed. A little diva-ish, perhaps?
Yeah, just a little!
Overall, it is a rather baffling way to run a Kickstarter and conduct oneself BUT...look how much money he's made already doing just that, so...who am I to...judge?
