Thanks a lot guys. You have been very helpful.

Since i recently got my hands on a bunch of money (not illigally tho) i thought about buying a Kustom stompa from Kromlech. Those.. boomkilla ones, and then go with the kannon belly. Somehow im not imagining the Stompa getting across the field to make any reason to have the 20 transport capacity.

Also,Sluggaloo, i have no problem with deathskulls as a mech list, at all. Deathskulls are just great.

Ill slam those lists in to my battlescribe and then make a duplicate with what i DO have, and use as a substitute for what im missing.

thank you friends.


Edit:
The army with evil sunz Kustom Stompa and 90 Boyz isnt that the very thing we try to avoid with saturation? I mean you have a lot of infantry and one large juicy target for anti tanking. I know the army is maybe a meme army but still. It looks fun though

Beardedragon wrote:

...
The army with evil sunz Kustom Stompa and 90 Boyz isnt that the very thing we try to avoid with saturation? I mean you have a lot of infantry and one large juicy target for anti tanking. I know the army is maybe a meme army but still. It looks fun though

Yes, it is. You' re absolutely right. But you always win with this list because Rule of Coll

(i got asked to post this here)

Hi, i am new to orks and totally clueless on what i should be doing with my models.
I bought the Ragnar vs Ghazzkull box because i wanted Ragnar and the model for Ghazz is awesome.
After that i received some new models and dont really know what clan to choose before i start builing/painting everything.

The models i own at the moment are.
Ghazzkull
Makari
20 Boys
10 Gretchin
5 Nobz
3 Meganobz
1 Boomdakka snazz wagon

Before i start building everything i want to have some kind of gameplan.
For now i want a 1000p list that i am happy with using these models.
If it is possible i would like to keep some shooty units as i like the ork gunz or mixed weapons options. I also own a SW army so i have the melee thing covered for now.
What should i aim for with these units and how would you build them yourself?
Also what character/unit could i add to these units to make them better?

Thanks!

 Tomsug wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:

...
The army with evil sunz Kustom Stompa and 90 Boyz isnt that the very thing we try to avoid with saturation? I mean you have a lot of infantry and one large juicy target for anti tanking. I know the army is maybe a meme army but still. It looks fun though

Yes, it is. You' re absolutely right. But you always win with this list because Rule of Coll

Well you can never go wrong with A kustom stompa in terms of coolness. Its awesome. I was never a fan of the normal Stompa as it looked like a fat doll in a dress. But the Kustom Stompa looks different, more slim maybe.

That reminds me, for tournements and such, do you guys know how the rules are when it comes to models, not from GW? Like if you bought Kromlech Mek Gunz instead of GW ones and such? Is that even allowed? Most cant tell the difference between FW Grot tanks and Kromlech Grot tanks anyway though. Although Kromlech Mek gunz do look visibly different to GW Mek Gunz.

Beardedragon wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:

...
The army with evil sunz Kustom Stompa and 90 Boyz isnt that the very thing we try to avoid with saturation? I mean you have a lot of infantry and one large juicy target for anti tanking. I know the army is maybe a meme army but still. It looks fun though

Yes, it is. You' re absolutely right. But you always win with this list because Rule of Coll

Well you can never go wrong with A kustom stompa in terms of coolness. Its awesome. I was never a fan of the normal Stompa as it looked like a fat doll in a dress. But the Kustom Stompa looks different, more slim maybe.

That reminds me, for tournements and such, do you guys know how the rules are when it comes to models, not from GW? Like if you bought Kromlech Mek Gunz instead of GW ones and such? Is that even allowed? Most cant tell the difference between FW Grot tanks and Kromlech Grot tanks anyway though. Although Kromlech Mek gunz do look visibly different to GW Mek Gunz.

It really depends on the tournament, some are stricter than others when it comes to third party models. If it's an official GW tourney they usually don't allow you to use third party models for obvious reasons, your best bet is to check with the TO (tournament organizer) and see what is restricted.

Iksdee wrote:
(i got asked to post this here)

Hi, i am new to orks and totally clueless on what i should be doing with my models.
I bought the Ragnar vs Ghazzkull box because i wanted Ragnar and the model for Ghazz is awesome.
After that i received some new models and dont really know what clan to choose before i start builing/painting everything.

The models i own at the moment are.
Ghazzkull
Makari
20 Boys
10 Gretchin
5 Nobz
3 Meganobz
1 Boomdakka snazz wagon

Before i start building everything i want to have some kind of gameplan.
For now i want a 1000p list that i am happy with using these models.
If it is possible i would like to keep some shooty units as i like the ork gunz or mixed weapons options. I also own a SW army so i have the melee thing covered for now.
What should i aim for with these units and how would you build them yourself?
Also what character/unit could i add to these units to make them better?

Thanks!

With those models the game plan is fairly set - goff foot horde. You probably want another box of boyz to max out that one squad, the best shooty option would be some mek guns. Make the nobz melee-focused, currently most kombi-weapons are trap-choices, and don't glue on any of the MANz weapons so you can switch between PK/shoota and killsaws on a whim. For additional characters you can either get a weird boy (avoid the finecast model an get one of the AoS shamans instead) or a second box of MANz to build a MA big mek.
If you feel confident with kit-bashing things, you could also use bits from the MANz box to convert the nobz into flash gits, but mind you that they aren't the greatest choice right now. You can also use the KFF bit you have to make Big Mek with KFF, the cheapest HQ we have right now.

You don't really get around the melee part though, as you basically have nothing but melee experts. Shooting-heavy ork armies would focus more on vehicles, with buggies and wagon as the core of your army. Thrakka definitely doesn't have place in such an army at 1000 points.

Thoughts on this list? I ended up going for 3 KMKs over smasha guns, both for financial reasons and for footprint issues. I'm running into some major traffic jam issues, and my deployment often ends up being "stick the rest where it fits" rather than where it would be effective.



So far it's been decently successful. Boys go in the wagon, MANz in the trukks, and they race up the board with the biker boss and try for early charges. The buggies and guns do buggy and gun things.

I've had a fair amount of success with the wartrike as a chaff clearer. It moves obnoxiously fast, and 12 strength 5 shots, 6 of which hit automatically, is pretty decent for clearing small squads or even bigger squads of chaff when you consider it can shoot in combat as well. He can also snipe weak-medium characters with the melta profile and a charge.

I would advice to drop da deffkilla for a weirdboy with da jump and use it to ...jump...any unit that looses their transport earlier than desired. Mount a unit of MANs on the wagon with the grot to absorb casualities from explosions, block chargers, grot shield and so on. Points left can be used to reinforce the boys unit that would walk around unless da jumped.

I dont have a kustom Stompa or a normal stompa, but if you put a KFF big mek right next to a Kustom Stompa or regular stompa, like, your KFF big mek touches the stompa, and the Stompa is taller than 9 inches, like the pipes sticking out from behind its head, does that mean you cant give the Stompa/kustom stompa a KFF without putting the Big Mek inside? I mean the text does state, wholly within, im guessing that means from the top of the model too?

Would that then mean a Kustom stompa with belly gun, that has no transport capacity, cant get a KFF unless you put 3CP to increase the radius to 18?

I think if you put the mek next to the kustom Stompa and your opponent didn't let it benefit from the kff bubble, your opponent is probably very fun at parties.

Honestly, would very much doubt any good, respectable player would give you trouble.

I see. well i hope so, because theoretically he would be in his right, wouldnt he? I dont hope that stompas and kustom stompas are actually taller than 9 inches, but i noticed a problem when using my gargantuan squiggoth. Unless i was standing at the sides of it, then my bubble wouldnt fit. If i stood at its head, i wouldnt be able to protect the back, thus it would be out of the bubble.

I think there should be some text adding something, so that an enemy player wouldnt have leeway in saying titanic models somehow shouldnt get the KFF invul save. Unless GW intentionally made it so they shouldnt get it unless you mount inside the titanic models.


Btw i was thinking about that evil sunz Kustom Stompa list; if your weirdboy sits near 30 boyz and gets +3 to his psychic test, does that add +1 if you also use Scorched Gitbonez for +4? Or can you never go beyond the +3. The Waagh Energy text does state "to a maximum of 3+" but im sort of reading that 3+ as you cant stand near 90 boyz and get a +9 to your casting. I dont read it as it wouldnt add Scorched Gitbonez to the mix. If i ran an evil Sunz list with a kustom Stompa id probably run Scorched Gitbonez just to be even more sure that id get the 9+ visions in the smoke cast off.

Beardedragon wrote:
I see. well i hope so, because theoretically he would be in his right, wouldnt he? I dont hope that stompas and kustom stompas are actually taller than 9 inches, but i noticed a problem when using my gargantuan squiggoth. Unless i was standing at the sides of it, then my bubble wouldnt fit. If i stood at its head, i wouldnt be able to protect the back, thus it would be out of the bubble.

I think there should be some text adding something, so that an enemy player wouldnt have leeway in saying titanic models somehow shouldnt get the KFF invul save. Unless GW intentionally made it so they shouldnt get it unless you mount inside the titanic models.


Btw i was thinking about that evil sunz Kustom Stompa list; if your weirdboy sits near 30 boyz and gets +3 to his psychic test, does that add +1 if you also use Scorched Gitbonez for +4? Or can you never go beyond the +3. The Waagh Energy text does state "to a maximum of 3+" but im sort of reading that 3+ as you cant stand near 90 boyz and get a +9 to your casting. I dont read it as it wouldnt add Scorched Gitbonez to the mix. If i ran an evil Sunz list with a kustom Stompa id probably run Scorched Gitbonez just to be even more sure that id get the 9+ visions in the smoke cast off.

I don't think you get the +3 for 30 Orks for it, since it's not from the Discipline Of The WAAAAGH!

I may be wrong-but if I were you, I'd double check the exact rules.

 JNAProductions wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
I see. well i hope so, because theoretically he would be in his right, wouldnt he? I dont hope that stompas and kustom stompas are actually taller than 9 inches, but i noticed a problem when using my gargantuan squiggoth. Unless i was standing at the sides of it, then my bubble wouldnt fit. If i stood at its head, i wouldnt be able to protect the back, thus it would be out of the bubble.

I think there should be some text adding something, so that an enemy player wouldnt have leeway in saying titanic models somehow shouldnt get the KFF invul save. Unless GW intentionally made it so they shouldnt get it unless you mount inside the titanic models.


Btw i was thinking about that evil sunz Kustom Stompa list; if your weirdboy sits near 30 boyz and gets +3 to his psychic test, does that add +1 if you also use Scorched Gitbonez for +4? Or can you never go beyond the +3. The Waagh Energy text does state "to a maximum of 3+" but im sort of reading that 3+ as you cant stand near 90 boyz and get a +9 to your casting. I dont read it as it wouldnt add Scorched Gitbonez to the mix. If i ran an evil Sunz list with a kustom Stompa id probably run Scorched Gitbonez just to be even more sure that id get the 9+ visions in the smoke cast off.

I don't think you get the +3 for 30 Orks for it, since it's not from the Discipline Of The WAAAAGH!

I may be wrong-but if I were you, I'd double check the exact rules.

PSYKER only. You can add 1 to Psychic tests taken by the bearer when manifesting a psychic power from the Power of the Waaagh! discipline.

Weirdboy ability:
Waaagh! Energy: Add 1 to Psychic tests taken for this model for every 10 ORK models (excluding GRETCHIN) within 10" of it when the roll is made, to a maximum of +3. If the result of the test is 12+ this model immediately suffers Perils of the Warp.

It could just be me but i dont read it as im unable to get +4. The 30 boyz will give +3 and a maximum of +3 from adding models is what i read, but the Shiny Gubbinz just allows you to add 1 to your psychic tests.

furthermore it says from the Scorched Gitbonez that you CAN add 1 to psychic tests, not that you have to. Which i never noticed before. I took that from wahapedia not from the codex, so maybe the codex writes it differently. So if you roll 8, and add +3 from boyz, you reach 11. You dont HAVE to add that +1 to get perils from scorched gitbonez as i read it.

Okay-so Waaagh! Energy would apply but the Gitbones would NOT. Since the clan powers are not from that discipline, as far as I know.

I dont know. One is a weirdboy ability, the other is just a Shiny Gubbinz, a relic.

I dont see any where text wise that states they shouldnt work together but maybe theres a rule somewhere im missing.

They do-for the six powers that are from the Ork Discipline.

Not for other powers.

I dont think i understand what you mean. Why shouldnt clan specific psychic powers get a boost from Scorched Gitbonez? That relic isnt clan specific.

It only works on the six powers from the Ork Codex. Since those are the Discipline of the Waaagh!

Beardedragon wrote:
I dont think i understand what you mean. Why shouldnt clan specific psychic powers get a boost from Scorched Gitbonez? That relic isnt clan specific.

You can add 1 to Psychic tests taken by the bearer when manifesting a psychic power from the Power of the Waaagh! discipline.

Emphasis mine. The clan-specific powers are not from the Power of the Waaagh! discipline, and are therefore ineligible for the bonus from Scorched Gitbonez.

 MinMax wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
I dont think i understand what you mean. Why shouldnt clan specific psychic powers get a boost from Scorched Gitbonez? That relic isnt clan specific.

You can add 1 to Psychic tests taken by the bearer when manifesting a psychic power from the Power of the Waaagh! discipline.

Emphasis mine. The clan-specific powers are not from the Power of the Waaagh! discipline, and are therefore ineligible for the bonus from Scorched Gitbonez.

oh now i get it. Somehow that eluded me.


Alright but my point still stands. If you want to use Warpath/da Jump etc with 30 boys near you do you still get to add +1 from Scorched Gitbonez? For a total of +4

Yes-for the six powers in the Ork Codex.

Not Smite and not Clan specific powers.

Beardedragon wrote:
I dont have a kustom Stompa or a normal stompa, but if you put a KFF big mek right next to a Kustom Stompa or regular stompa, like, your KFF big mek touches the stompa, and the Stompa is taller than 9 inches, like the pipes sticking out from behind its head, does that mean you cant give the Stompa/kustom stompa a KFF without putting the Big Mek inside? I mean the text does state, wholly within, im guessing that means from the top of the model too?

Would that then mean a Kustom stompa with belly gun, that has no transport capacity, cant get a KFF unless you put 3CP to increase the radius to 18?

According to the rules, if any part of an unbased model is outside of 9", it is not wholly within 9".

 Jidmah wrote:

According to the rules, if any part of an unbased model is outside of 9", it is not wholly within 9".

But is it a sphere or cylinder?
Is it around the KFF base or model?
And in case the protected model has base, just the base needs to be the 9”?

That is pretty interesting. I' ve never think about it this way. Because de facto in case it' s a sphere, you have to draw the section in case of model bigger than trukk to play it right I guess..

How are Stormboys looking these days? Browsing through the store the other day, I pretty much fell in love with them.

If you're bringing it to an event, get the TO to give their ruling on it. GW rules aren't always written with the largest models in mind (see the whole Ares gunship debate about it RAW being undeployable on dawn of war style deployment prior to an FAQ).

 BertBert wrote:
How are Stormboys looking these days? Browsing through the store the other day, I pretty much fell in love with them.

They're pretty good used as small mobile objective stealers and for things like Engage.

Pretty interchangeable with kommandos in my opinion, it just depends on whether you have an Elites or Fast Attack slot free.

 Tomsug wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

According to the rules, if any part of an unbased model is outside of 9", it is not wholly within 9".

But is it a sphere or cylinder?
Is it around the KFF base or model?
And in case the protected model has base, just the base needs to be the 9”?

That is pretty interesting. I' ve never think about it this way. Because de facto in case it' s a sphere, you have to draw the section in case of model bigger than trukk to play it right I guess..

Technically, it's not really a sphere, you have to measure to the closest point of the KFF model's base. It would look more like an upside-down bowl.

But yes, when putting BW with turrets inside your KFF, you need to be careful to not have something stick out.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

According to the rules, if any part of an unbased model is outside of 9", it is not wholly within 9".

But is it a sphere or cylinder?
Is it around the KFF base or model?
And in case the protected model has base, just the base needs to be the 9”?

That is pretty interesting. I' ve never think about it this way. Because de facto in case it' s a sphere, you have to draw the section in case of model bigger than trukk to play it right I guess..

Technically, it's not really a sphere, you have to measure to the closest point of the KFF model's base. It would look more like an upside-down bowl.

But yes, when putting BW with turrets inside your KFF, you need to be careful to not have something stick out.

But do you have a kustom Stompa? (or maybe a normal stompa) Do you know if a Big Mek would fit its KFF around a kustom stompa? Because i have bought a "kustom stompa" from Kromlech which is a little bit larger, and id like to know if i should tell people: Normally a kustom stompa would fit and this is just a proxy, so lets pretend it fits" or "i know the kustom stompa wont fit so neither will this, and thus theres no need to even bring a KFF unless my opponent dont mind that my model is taller than 9 inches.


I feel like our largest models should definitely still be able to fit within the KFF but as i see it, they just dont. You have to be almost under the belly of a gargantuan squiggoth for that thing to even fit from head to tail. That or the wording needs to change for titanic models and KFFs

 Jidmah wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

According to the rules, if any part of an unbased model is outside of 9", it is not wholly within 9".

But is it a sphere or cylinder?
Is it around the KFF base or model?
And in case the protected model has base, just the base needs to be the 9”?

That is pretty interesting. I' ve never think about it this way. Because de facto in case it' s a sphere, you have to draw the section in case of model bigger than trukk to play it right I guess..

Technically, it's not really a sphere, you have to measure to the closest point of the KFF model's base. It would look more like an upside-down bowl.

But yes, when putting BW with turrets inside your KFF, you need to be careful to not have something stick out.

Yes you're correct, the KFF bubble is actually a dome, not a sphere or a cylinder. Half of a sphere basically. Unfortunately considering how the thing is worded a single banner of chimney could ruin a tall model's day.

Beardedragon wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

According to the rules, if any part of an unbased model is outside of 9", it is not wholly within 9".

But is it a sphere or cylinder?
Is it around the KFF base or model?
And in case the protected model has base, just the base needs to be the 9”?

That is pretty interesting. I' ve never think about it this way. Because de facto in case it' s a sphere, you have to draw the section in case of model bigger than trukk to play it right I guess..

Technically, it's not really a sphere, you have to measure to the closest point of the KFF model's base. It would look more like an upside-down bowl.

But yes, when putting BW with turrets inside your KFF, you need to be careful to not have something stick out.

But do you have a kustom Stompa? (or maybe a normal stompa) Do you know if a Big Mek would fit its KFF around a kustom stompa? Because i have bought a "kustom stompa" from Kromlech which is a little bit larger, and id like to know if i should tell people: Normally a kustom stompa would fit and this is just a proxy, so lets pretend it fits" or "i know the kustom stompa wont fit so neither will this, and thus theres no need to even bring a KFF unless my opponent dont mind that my model is taller than 9 inches.


I feel like our largest models should definitely still be able to fit within the KFF but as i see it, they just dont. You have to be almost under the belly of a gargantuan squiggoth for that thing to even fit from head to tail. That or the wording needs to change for titanic models and KFFs

The kustom Stompa is more than 9'' tall, so RAW would not fit in a kff bubble. Take that info as you wish.

 Blackie wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
[

Yes you're correct, the KFF bubble is actually a dome, not a sphere or a cylinder. Half of a sphere basically. Unfortunately considering how the thing is worded a single banner of chimney could ruin a tall model's day.

Well, than all drawings on warhammer comunity and goonhammer etc. are wrong. They draw it like a circle on the orthogonal floorplan projection. But yes, as I see RAW it should be a dome.

I've always played the KFF as a sphere. It only really mattered if or when the KFF was elevated off the table, like a KFF Mek in a building or maybe elevated on a hill, where the KFF range would reach a unit or models at a lower height than the Mek. On lager models that situation is a bit less likely to come up. If we're measuring from the base of the hull. The Wazbom with KFF may also find itself in that situation from time to time.

 Sluggaloo wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

According to the rules, if any part of an unbased model is outside of 9", it is not wholly within 9".

But is it a sphere or cylinder?
Is it around the KFF base or model?
And in case the protected model has base, just the base needs to be the 9”?

That is pretty interesting. I' ve never think about it this way. Because de facto in case it' s a sphere, you have to draw the section in case of model bigger than trukk to play it right I guess..

Technically, it's not really a sphere, you have to measure to the closest point of the KFF model's base. It would look more like an upside-down bowl.

But yes, when putting BW with turrets inside your KFF, you need to be careful to not have something stick out.

But do you have a kustom Stompa? (or maybe a normal stompa) Do you know if a Big Mek would fit its KFF around a kustom stompa? Because i have bought a "kustom stompa" from Kromlech which is a little bit larger, and id like to know if i should tell people: Normally a kustom stompa would fit and this is just a proxy, so lets pretend it fits" or "i know the kustom stompa wont fit so neither will this, and thus theres no need to even bring a KFF unless my opponent dont mind that my model is taller than 9 inches.


I feel like our largest models should definitely still be able to fit within the KFF but as i see it, they just dont. You have to be almost under the belly of a gargantuan squiggoth for that thing to even fit from head to tail. That or the wording needs to change for titanic models and KFFs

The kustom Stompa is more than 9'' tall, so RAW would not fit in a kff bubble. Take that info as you wish.

thanks buddy

I've always considered the KFF as the 40k equivalent of the force field developed by Gungans, seen in Star Wars ep I:



I always had a dome in mind, even with older descriptions of KFF.

I wish they're change it back to with in, instead of wholly within. That's be fantastic for 9th.

Even though it may slow some dice rolls a bit, I wish it was models within 9" instead of units wholly within 9". It would act the same as light cover for units half in and half out and would make KFF coverage of 30 boyz still feasible and beneficial.

So I've just read the WC article on beast snaggaz, and it looks like they're going to be a sub kultur. Presumably boosting our squig units and making them usable/appealing.

The spears are also confirmed to be rokkit-propelled, so they're probably going to have a pretty brutal charge.

Ruleswise they might be interesting, but I'm not happy with the models sadly.. I love squigs but these don't really do it for me, why aren't they just 2-legged and more ball-like as they're in AoS? With a different/better paint scheme I might like the actual ork models though.

Holding out some real hope for the rest of the stuff teased in the video though, as this seems to be the same unit as the last one just with a different loadout..

I know some of their look being similar to the AoS orruks is controversial, but personally I'm cool with them. I think the GW paintjob usually is a poor demonstration of a lot of their models and I feel like seeing a more normal take on their coloring scheme will be a better indicator of what their potential is for models.

As far as rules go, seeing the explosive spear definitely pushes towards the rough rider idea that I felt they were pushing towards, which is kinda sad that Orks get to have plastic models for while the IG ones get squatted. Truly survival of the fittest!

 Sluggaloo wrote:

Spoiler:

Beardedragon wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

According to the rules, if any part of an unbased model is outside of 9", it is not wholly within 9".

But is it a sphere or cylinder?
Is it around the KFF base or model?
And in case the protected model has base, just the base needs to be the 9”?

That is pretty interesting. I' ve never think about it this way. Because de facto in case it' s a sphere, you have to draw the section in case of model bigger than trukk to play it right I guess..

Technically, it's not really a sphere, you have to measure to the closest point of the KFF model's base. It would look more like an upside-down bowl.

But yes, when putting BW with turrets inside your KFF, you need to be careful to not have something stick out.

But do you have a kustom Stompa? (or maybe a normal stompa) Do you know if a Big Mek would fit its KFF around a kustom stompa? Because i have bought a "kustom stompa" from Kromlech which is a little bit larger, and id like to know if i should tell people: Normally a kustom stompa would fit and this is just a proxy, so lets pretend it fits" or "i know the kustom stompa wont fit so neither will this, and thus theres no need to even bring a KFF unless my opponent dont mind that my model is taller than 9 inches.


I feel like our largest models should definitely still be able to fit within the KFF but as i see it, they just dont. You have to be almost under the belly of a gargantuan squiggoth for that thing to even fit from head to tail. That or the wording needs to change for titanic models and KFFs

The kustom Stompa is more than 9'' tall, so RAW would not fit in a kff bubble. Take that info as you wish.

Yeah, this. Since 8thm the only way to get a stompa a KFF save has been to embark a big mek on it.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Sluggaloo wrote:

Spoiler:

Beardedragon wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

According to the rules, if any part of an unbased model is outside of 9", it is not wholly within 9".

But is it a sphere or cylinder?
Is it around the KFF base or model?
And in case the protected model has base, just the base needs to be the 9”?

That is pretty interesting. I' ve never think about it this way. Because de facto in case it' s a sphere, you have to draw the section in case of model bigger than trukk to play it right I guess..

Technically, it's not really a sphere, you have to measure to the closest point of the KFF model's base. It would look more like an upside-down bowl.

But yes, when putting BW with turrets inside your KFF, you need to be careful to not have something stick out.

But do you have a kustom Stompa? (or maybe a normal stompa) Do you know if a Big Mek would fit its KFF around a kustom stompa? Because i have bought a "kustom stompa" from Kromlech which is a little bit larger, and id like to know if i should tell people: Normally a kustom stompa would fit and this is just a proxy, so lets pretend it fits" or "i know the kustom stompa wont fit so neither will this, and thus theres no need to even bring a KFF unless my opponent dont mind that my model is taller than 9 inches.


I feel like our largest models should definitely still be able to fit within the KFF but as i see it, they just dont. You have to be almost under the belly of a gargantuan squiggoth for that thing to even fit from head to tail. That or the wording needs to change for titanic models and KFFs

The kustom Stompa is more than 9'' tall, so RAW would not fit in a kff bubble. Take that info as you wish.

Yeah, this. Since 8thm the only way to get a stompa a KFF save has been to embark a big mek on it.

That's really dumb IMO, I hope that in our upcoming codex that the KFF gets changed to models within 6" so we don't get janky situations like this. It's hard enough to use it in the parking lot of buggies most of our vehicle lists are made of, for a sub-par unit like the stompa to have to add 60 points just to get a 5++ save that it should have baseline is silly.

I don't know if GW will want to change a force field bubble to within rather than wholly within since wholly within actually makes a lot more sense. My issue is more that 9" sounds like a lot but wholly within makes that really restrictive, make it 12" instead and I think that's fine.

But also, unless you're at a super competitive tournament event, if your opponent argues that a stompa isn't in the 9" bubble because he's slightly too tall then that opponent is an ass IMO. You brought a freakin' stompa, how does that not grant you a smidge of sympathy for what is (IMO) a clearly unintended consequence of the models height?

That are the rules though, and they are not ambiguous at all, nor is the problem new. A friendly opponent might allow it anyways, but you can't blame a person for just wanting to play the rules as they are.
Lore-wise the stompa has parts of it that are sticking out of the dome and thus are unprotected, and there is good reason to not allow a double-lifta kustom stompa any freebies.

As for the wholly within/within discussion - GW made a conscious decision to change the KFF from within 6" to wholly within 9" so a single KFF can no longer cover 120 boyz like it used to in prior editions. Don't expect that change to be reverted.

Yeah sure, absolutely. But I'm guessing that whatever games you're bringing a stompa to aren't going to be the bleeding-edge competitive games where people need to argue every little thing to their advantage. It's almost guaranteed to be a silly friendly game and I find it utterly strange if your opponent doesn't give you that minuscule amount of leeway then, seeing as the stompa is most likely going to make you lose anyways 5++ or not.

If you're one of these people that brings a double-lifta kustom stompa to tournaments because you think it's a good move (I however vehemently disagree that it's a good unit) then yeah, expect people to care and call you out on it. Otherwise I just find it to be a non-issue that some part of your exhaust system extend further than 9" up. It is still, of course, to the discretion of your opponent to allow it or not but in my experience you'll have nothing to worry about and most people just look at you strange for even bringing it up.

PiñaColada wrote:
Yeah sure, absolutely. But I'm guessing that whatever games you're bringing a stompa to aren't going to be the bleeding-edge competitive games where people need to argue every little thing to their advantage. It's almost guaranteed to be a silly friendly game and I find it utterly strange if your opponent doesn't give you that minuscule amount of leeway then, seeing as the stompa is most likely going to make you lose anyways 5++ or not.

If you're one of these people that brings a double-lifta kustom stompa to tournaments because you think it's a good move (I however vehemently disagree that it's a good unit) then yeah, expect people to care and call you out on it. Otherwise I just find it to be a non-issue that some part of your exhaust system extend further than 9" up. It is still, of course, to the discretion of your opponent to allow it or not but in my experience you'll have nothing to worry about and most people just look at you strange for even bringing it up.

Or you can put Mek inside and problem solved....

Honestly, polite is to play as it' s right. Not as someone wish or as someone used to play it last 12 years (yeah, I faced such argumment twice already and no, the fact the complete system of the rules has changed couple of times last 12 years was not the argument strong enough...).

Stompa sticking out of the bubble by third of his body is not a “little thing”.

However, this doesnt change the fact, I see the “dome” version of the rule bad, because it' s pretty hard to see or measure. Cylinder version is definetely more anti-argueing and speedplaying oriented.

PiñaColada wrote:
Yeah sure, absolutely. But I'm guessing that whatever games you're bringing a stompa to aren't going to be the bleeding-edge competitive games where people need to argue every little thing to their advantage. It's almost guaranteed to be a silly friendly game and I find it utterly strange if your opponent doesn't give you that minuscule amount of leeway then, seeing as the stompa is most likely going to make you lose anyways 5++ or not.

If you're one of these people that brings a double-lifta kustom stompa to tournaments because you think it's a good move (I however vehemently disagree that it's a good unit) then yeah, expect people to care and call you out on it. Otherwise I just find it to be a non-issue that some part of your exhaust system extend further than 9" up. It is still, of course, to the discretion of your opponent to allow it or not but in my experience you'll have nothing to worry about and most people just look at you strange for even bringing it up.

The stompa is not just sticking out by an exhaust pipe or something, even without any exhaust pipes, poles or banners the stompa is almost 9" tall and ~8" in diameter. A KFF mek in base contact with a foot it barely covers half of the head and arms and weapons on the other side are definitely fully outside. Which means even with the most narrow interpretation of what "hull" is, the stompa would not be "wholly within". This is not "shooting an antenna" territory, this is more akin to claiming that Mortarion can be hidden behind a GUO because "he would not spread his wings in reality".

Essentially you are asking for an extra 3-4" range on your KFF, would you offer that to a space marine player's captain because he is fielding a mediocre units?

Pulling the "tournament players are WAAC TFG" card doesn't do you any favor either. An evil suns stompa is nowhere near tournament territory, but can easily devastate an opponent's army if the combo goes off, so you have no right to claim an advantage that you rule-wise should never have.

Your opponent has every right to give you freebies if he feels like giving you an advantage, but it's exactly that - a freebie given out of goodwill. You have no moral high ground here, Stompas simply don't fit inside KFFs with absolutely no reason to argue otherwise.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tomsug wrote:
However, this doesnt change the fact, I see the “dome” version of the rule bad, because it' s pretty hard to see or measure. Cylinder version is definetely more anti-argueing and speedplaying oriented.

Eh, the cylinder version mostly stems from TTS being unable to measure heights and TTS being the most common way to play competitively currently. In real life, it's super easy to identify the point furthest from the KFF and measure that.

Thanks for this info. I do like mek guns but they are expensive.
I was playing around with points a little and was wondering about 2 things for this list.

1. Should i drop 2 MANz for a MA big mek with kff?
2. Would you rather run 5 nobz or 5 flash gits? I'm wondering how fast the 5 nobz would die. But i guess they wont be a priority over the MA big mek/MANz, Ghazz and the Snazzwagon.

What parts do i need to build flash gits, just some big guns and fun stuff?
(if i run a snazzwagon i kinda do need snazzguns)

Iksdee wrote:

Spoiler:

 Jidmah wrote:

Iksdee wrote:
(i got asked to post this here)

Hi, i am new to orks and totally clueless on what i should be doing with my models.
I bought the Ragnar vs Ghazzkull box because i wanted Ragnar and the model for Ghazz is awesome.
After that i received some new models and dont really know what clan to choose before i start builing/painting everything.

The models i own at the moment are.
Ghazzkull
Makari
20 Boys
10 Gretchin
5 Nobz
3 Meganobz
1 Boomdakka snazz wagon

Before i start building everything i want to have some kind of gameplan.
For now i want a 1000p list that i am happy with using these models.
If it is possible i would like to keep some shooty units as i like the ork gunz or mixed weapons options. I also own a SW army so i have the melee thing covered for now.
What should i aim for with these units and how would you build them yourself?
Also what character/unit could i add to these units to make them better?

Thanks!

With those models the game plan is fairly set - goff foot horde. You probably want another box of boyz to max out that one squad, the best shooty option would be some mek guns. Make the nobz melee-focused, currently most kombi-weapons are trap-choices, and don't glue on any of the MANz weapons so you can switch between PK/shoota and killsaws on a whim. For additional characters you can either get a weird boy (avoid the finecast model an get one of the AoS shamans instead) or a second box of MANz to build a MA big mek.
If you feel confident with kit-bashing things, you could also use bits from the MANz box to convert the nobz into flash gits, but mind you that they aren't the greatest choice right now. You can also use the KFF bit you have to make Big Mek with KFF, the cheapest HQ we have right now.

You don't really get around the melee part though, as you basically have nothing but melee experts. Shooting-heavy ork armies would focus more on vehicles, with buggies and wagon as the core of your army. Thrakka definitely doesn't have place in such an army at 1000 points.

Thanks for this info. I do like mek guns but they are expensive.
I was playing around with points a little and was wondering about 2 things for this list.

1. Should i drop 2 MANz for a MA big mek with kff?

I guess if you want to? I'd rather get another box and build 5 MANz plus the big mek. Keep in mind that your army currently has to fit into combat patrol detachment, so bringing the big mek would require you to leave Makari at home. Not a terrible loss, but a thing to consider.

2. Would you rather run 5 nobz or 5 flash gits? I'm wondering how fast the 5 nobz would die. But i guess they wont be a priority over the MA big mek/MANz, Ghazz and the Snazzwagon.

Neither is particularly awesome, but since you are already short on guns, flash gits might be just the thing you need.

What parts do i need to build flash gits, just some big guns and fun stuff?
(if i run a snazzwagon i kinda do need snazzguns)

Snazzguns are literally just as sprue full of gun bits, and lore-wise it's just an extremely expensive gun with lots of extra stuff attached to it. It can literally be anything.
Just loot everything you don't need from the sprues you have and turn the combi-shootas and shootas from the nobz box into big weapons with lots of gun barrels, extra magazines and anything else that looks awesome. Extra sluggas/shootas/big shootas from the boys box, unneeded combi-bits or the tellyporta blasta from the MANz box and runtherd's grot prod are all great bits for this.
The one thing I suggest not butchering for this exercise is rokkits and tanbusta bombs, you'll eventually want them to build tank bustas.

 Tomsug wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:
Yeah sure, absolutely. But I'm guessing that whatever games you're bringing a stompa to aren't going to be the bleeding-edge competitive games where people need to argue every little thing to their advantage. It's almost guaranteed to be a silly friendly game and I find it utterly strange if your opponent doesn't give you that minuscule amount of leeway then, seeing as the stompa is most likely going to make you lose anyways 5++ or not.

If you're one of these people that brings a double-lifta kustom stompa to tournaments because you think it's a good move (I however vehemently disagree that it's a good unit) then yeah, expect people to care and call you out on it. Otherwise I just find it to be a non-issue that some part of your exhaust system extend further than 9" up. It is still, of course, to the discretion of your opponent to allow it or not but in my experience you'll have nothing to worry about and most people just look at you strange for even bringing it up.

Or you can put Mek inside and problem solved....

Honestly, polite is to play as it' s right. Not as someone wish or as someone used to play it last 12 years (yeah, I faced such argumment twice already and no, the fact the complete system of the rules has changed couple of times last 12 years was not the argument strong enough...).

Stompa sticking out of the bubble by third of his body is not a “little thing”.

However, this doesnt change the fact, I see the “dome” version of the rule bad, because it' s pretty hard to see or measure. Cylinder version is definetely more anti-argueing and speedplaying oriented.

You cant use the Bellygun if you put a mek inside it though. (talking about the kustom Stompa here).

I cant help but wonder if that was intentionally though, that bigger titanic models should ONLY get the KFF if a Big Mek is inside of it. Or it was just a result of going from one edition to another, or what ever happened to the old (be within 6 inches to be wholly within 9. I wonder when they did that, if they had thought it fully through that our largest models, are larger than 9 inches.

Most likely they don't give a damn. It's also worth noting that models with bases like the nauts have no such troubles.

 Jidmah wrote:
That are the rules though, and they are not ambiguous at all, nor is the problem new. A friendly opponent might allow it anyways, but you can't blame a person for just wanting to play the rules as they are.
Lore-wise the stompa has parts of it that are sticking out of the dome and thus are unprotected, and there is good reason to not allow a double-lifta kustom stompa any freebies.

.

On the topic of double Lifta droppa stompas, what are you guys thoughts on the best way to run a Kustom Stompa?

Personally i thought about going for a Double lifta droppa, but on the other hand, i feel like giving up the deffkannon, supa-gatler and supa-rokkits just to get 1 more stompa lifta droppa seemed like a bad choice to me. I feel like the Deffkannon and the kustom supa rokkits make up for the lifta droppa, but on top of that, you also retain the Supa-gatler if you dont go for 2x stompa lifta droppas and just go for 1 instead.


Theres probably no way you'd ever get a CC stompa across the field with 2 klaws, but i would like to see what happens when it attacks things and deals 9 damage per swing that hits and mortal wounds on 4+ wound rolls.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:
Most likely they don't give a damn. It's also worth noting that models with bases like the nauts have no such troubles.

well. If the Naut was taller than 9 inches surely it would have trouble as well? Or am i missing something here. I dont see that the trouble is whether the stompa has a base or not, just that its too tall.


Edited:
Wrote some stuff i decided to remove, and put it in the rules question section.

Hey guys. Long-time lurker, new poster here. With our codex likely arriving in June/July, I figured I'd make an account here to talk tactics and whatnot. I have been playing since 2019 after a 15 year break and I am up to about 8000 pts of orks. I typically run one of three lists depending on the weather; footslogging goffs, footslogging evil suns, mechanized deathskulls. I have most models except for the new buggies and some FW. I haven't played in any big tourneys but I have played and performed pretty well in some small local ones.

What is everyone most excited about with our new codex? With the recent point hikes, it's pretty clear to me that we should see a lot of the same upgrades that other armies are seeing. I'm really hoping for upgraded weapons like choppas AP -1, big choppas AP -2 or 3, D6 damage to D3+3 (would at least make KMBs a take for clans not named deathskulls). Right now our troops and elite infantry are too expensive for their value.

I'm terrified of what they will do to ere we go. Hopefully it doesn't hurt my evil suns too much.

I have fixed up (for the most part) the warbiker horde. Which is a bit pointless for a couple of reasons. 1: They are warbikers and as such aren't exactly a powerhouse right now and 2: I'm about to move 3k miles so i might have to repair them again in a month and some change anyway

But here is something fun I'm going to try hopefully before the move.

Outrider detachment:

Warboss on warbike with Klaw relic

3x 12 warbikerz with Nob/PK
3x Scrapjetz
2x rokkit Koptaz
1x Rokkit koptaz
10x Smasha gunz.

Grand total: 1,997 points.

I'm going to give the Scrapjetz the Korkscrew Kustom job and 1 unit of the warbikerz the Squighide tirez upgrade, they will all be coming in as Evil Sunz so that the warbikers all move 16' and the Kustom job unit moves 18. If I choose to advance they will get D6+1 so a minimum of 2 and for charges its 2D6+1 so minimum 3. The normal bikers will have a minimum threat range of 21' an average threat range of 28 and a maximum of 36. The Kustom job unit will be 23, 30 and 38 The Koptaz will be just as fast as the bikerz and the scrapjetz 12' move, D6+1 advance and 2D6+1 charge for the minimum of 17' average of 24 and a max of 32.

Everything will be technically in charge range turn 1, nobody is effected by advancing since Evil Sunz lets you ignore advance and shoot and with the Warboss on warbike nearby everyone can charge after advancing.

Will it be competitive? Probably not honestly, but its going to be a lot of fun to play with. 37 warbikers in your face turn 1 along with 3 scrapjets, 3 koptas and 10 mek guns pounding away from the rear lines.

Huh, what is it? I' ve faced today on TTS 3 lists full of knights.

2 of them was boring, 8th ed style with big knights and was super easy to table them.

But the third one was great.

8 smallest chaos knight War Dog Moirax with huge ammount of 36” 6/-2/1 shooting on 12” moving T8 W12 platforms
2 War Dogs with combination of some heavy melta and chainsword
1 Mortarion.

So you spent a lot of energy to kill the CC guys and meanvile, you was overshooted by 36” heavy fire.

It was like an ork shooting buggy lists with some transports with MANz. Just with bigger range.

Honestly, what makes me the biggest troubles recently is the mass 35+” shooting. This is really anti-Scrapjet type of the list. I have to thing about it a little, to find the way how to deal with it. Maybe, it can be solved by better gameplan, but maybe another improvement of my list would be necessary...

BDBurrow wrote:
Hey guys. Long-time lurker, new poster here. With our codex likely arriving in June/July, I figured I'd make an account here to talk tactics and whatnot. I have been playing since 2019 after a 15 year break and I am up to about 8000 pts of orks. I typically run one of three lists depending on the weather; footslogging goffs, footslogging evil suns, mechanized deathskulls. I have most models except for the new buggies and some FW. I haven't played in any big tourneys but I have played and performed pretty well in some small local ones.

What is everyone most excited about with our new codex? With the recent point hikes, it's pretty clear to me that we should see a lot of the same upgrades that other armies are seeing. I'm really hoping for upgraded weapons like choppas AP -1, big choppas AP -2 or 3, D6 damage to D3+3 (would at least make KMBs a take for clans not named deathskulls). Right now our troops and elite infantry are too expensive for their value.

I'm terrified of what they will do to ere we go. Hopefully it doesn't hurt my evil suns too much.

Besides what you mentioned, I figure they will streamline DDD! to make us get an extra hit on a 6 rather than an extra attack to save time on all those rolls. I too am afraid of what they'll do to 'Ere We Go, I highly doubt they'll let us keep the option to reroll one or both dice, we'll probably just have the usual fare of having to reroll both dice which would kinda suck.

I'm expecting a WAAAGH! mechanic of some sort that could lead to WAAAGH! counters of some sort, assuming they don't want to port an equivalent of the Big WAAAGH! table from AoS. I would like to see the Warboss/Warlord making an impact on how much is generated or affecting units beyond their baseline aura ability.

Our fight twice strat would likely become either a klan or unit specific strat following the trends of the 9th ed codices so far, so probably between Nobz or boyz. I can see ardboyz or skarboyz being pregame changes to a unit that costs points rather than CP. Ramshackle will likely become standard across all Ork vehicles. Big Shootas will change stats in someway, if they follow Splinter Cannons, they will become -1AP and D2, but at the cost of being 10ppm.

A lot of abilities that are strats are likely to become built in rules for units, like Dreaded Deff Machine. Hopefully that means Flash Gitz get a baseline of 36" for their Snazzguns.

Then we'll have a Council of WAAAGH! option of giving upgrades like we do now with Da Biggest Boss and Da Kleverest Boss but streamlined to unlock additional stuff like Chapter Masters and Master Archons do.

I'm looking forward to them making the other klans more interesting and if they'll make subkulturs a per unit basis without breaking the overall main klan or if they'll make them a detachment only type deal.

Well, this prediction tend to be like 0,01% succesfull. It' s always the same. It' s more a wishlist than anything else.

Ask the question about new codex 1-2 months after release. Than you will have a chance to get a relevant answer.

Beardedragon wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Most likely they don't give a damn. It's also worth noting that models with bases like the nauts have no such troubles.

well. If the Naut was taller than 9 inches surely it would have trouble as well? Or am i missing something here. I dont see that the trouble is whether the stompa has a base or not, just that its too tall.

To be wholly within 9", every part of a model must be within 9". For models without a base, you measure to the hull, which is every part of a model. For models with a base, you only ever measure to the base, so if the base is within 9", it doesn't matter how much of a model is sticking out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tomsug wrote:
Well, this prediction tend to be like 0,01% succesfull. It' s always the same. It' s more a wishlist than anything else.

Ask the question about new codex 1-2 months after release. Than you will have a chance to get a relevant answer.

I find both their predictions to be rather on spot. Sure, we won't get everything, but at this point we have seen enough to extrapolate some things.

 Jidmah wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Most likely they don't give a damn. It's also worth noting that models with bases like the nauts have no such troubles.

well. If the Naut was taller than 9 inches surely it would have trouble as well? Or am i missing something here. I dont see that the trouble is whether the stompa has a base or not, just that its too tall.

To be wholly within 9", every part of a model must be within 9". For models without a base, you measure to the hull, which is every part of a model. For models with a base, you only ever measure to the base, so if the base is within 9", it doesn't matter how much of a model is sticking out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tomsug wrote:
Well, this prediction tend to be like 0,01% succesfull. It' s always the same. It' s more a wishlist than anything else.

Ask the question about new codex 1-2 months after release. Than you will have a chance to get a relevant answer.

I find both their predictions to be rather on spot. Sure, we won't get everything, but at this point we have seen enough to extrapolate some things.

oh thats interesting. I thought you still measured the tallness of the gorkanaut even if it was on a base.

Edit: Wait no. ive only ever measured to the base of the gorkanaut now that i think about it so i guess i already knew this but hadnt thought about it because i dont own any super large models.

 Tomsug wrote:
Huh, what is it? I' ve faced today on TTS 3 lists full of knights.

2 of them was boring, 8th ed style with big knights and was super easy to table them.

But the third one was great.

8 smallest chaos knight War Dog Moirax with huge ammount of 36” 6/-2/1 shooting on 12” moving T8 W12 platforms
2 War Dogs with combination of some heavy melta and chainsword
1 Mortarion.

So you spent a lot of energy to kill the CC guys and meanvile, you was overshooted by 36” heavy fire.

It was like an ork shooting buggy lists with some transports with MANz. Just with bigger range.

Honestly, what makes me the biggest troubles recently is the mass 35+” shooting. This is really anti-Scrapjet type of the list. I have to thing about it a little, to find the way how to deal with it. Maybe, it can be solved by better gameplan, but maybe another improvement of my list would be necessary...

Apparently that list (morty + lots of moirax) is becoming quite a popular build, you are right to think about countering it. It is perhaps on the brink of becoming "meta"

 addnid wrote:


Apparently that list (morty + lots of moirax) is becoming quite a popular build, you are right to think about countering it. It is perhaps on the brink of becoming "meta"

Yeah, fast charge with something like MANz in BW and motowarboss or Naut or something seems to be the option. They suffer in CC. But it' s hard... I even think about putting the Scrapjet in Telyport. Keep the battle in his half and score via Domination and maybe Banners?

Concerning the "Ghazzy in Deathskulls-Lists"-discussion: I read the Goonhammer competitive Tier list article for april and apparantly there was a guy getting first place at Freestate GT with something similar. Also there was a Grot Mob getting second place in another GT as well . I'm no competitive player and in no way informed how big and representative those events were, though.

Link to the article:
https://www.goonhammer.com/goonhammer-competitive-tier-list-april-2021/#The_Tiers

As I'd said back in that discussion - he needs his own Goff detachment.

Looking at the style of Secondaries coming from the 9th Codexes I wonder if we wont get some for just fighting. While everyone in the galaxy excels at fighting no one but us like it. This makes me think we´d fit with a Secondary that rewarded fighting on scale somehow. Say 1 VP turn for shooting or melee, 2 VP per turn for both shooting and melee, 3 VP for both and killing something. In those environs.

The guy with Ghaz in deathskulls list i believe did have his own Goff patrol with a painboy in it.

The grot list is extremely skew, with that many grots and 18 mek gunz. Typical rock-paper-scissor attitude that might either reward in a tournament with a totally unexpected and counter meta force or auto lose against mediocre lists.

Deathskull list definitely has a Goff patrol to include Ghaz.

 Blackie wrote:
The grot list is extremely skew, with that many grots and 18 mek gunz. Typical rock-paper-scissor attitude that might either reward in a tournament with a totally unexpected and counter meta force or auto lose against mediocre lists.

Deathskull list definitely has a Goff patrol to include Ghaz.

I wanna see the table on this tournament. There was similar list few weeks ago from the US and the table was clear 8th ed open field....

Waaaghbert wrote:
Concerning the "Ghazzy in Deathskulls-Lists"-discussion: I read the Goonhammer competitive Tier list article for april and apparantly there was a guy getting first place at Freestate GT with something similar. Also there was a Grot Mob getting second place in another GT as well . I'm no competitive player and in no way informed how big and representative those events were, though.

Link to the article:
https://www.goonhammer.com/goonhammer-competitive-tier-list-april-2021/#The_Tiers

The Ghaz build in this article is a Deathskulls army with a Goff patrol for Ghaz and the painboy.

 Scactha wrote:
Looking at the style of Secondaries coming from the 9th Codexes I wonder if we wont get some for just fighting. While everyone in the galaxy excels at fighting no one but us like it. This makes me think we´d fit with a Secondary that rewarded fighting on scale somehow. Say 1 VP turn for shooting or melee, 2 VP per turn for both shooting and melee, 3 VP for both and killing something. In those environs.

I'm hoping for this as well. A mixture of one's for kill units in X phase, and some for kill a unit over this PL, that kind of thing.

Orks love to fight, why shouldn't we be rewarded for doing so?

I also think we're going to see a change in the power klaw/killsaw dynamic. I think PKs are going to be made the more reliable one, with decent AP and fixed damage, and killsaws being the high AP with swingy damage, but with a reliability bonus if you shell out the points for a pair rather than just one.

Secondary obj. VP for exploded vehicles would be also great. Not sure about its competitivnes, but take the burnabommers, snazzwagons and gunwagons and try to spark the chain of explosions could be cool beerhammer scenario. With a decent power to do it and win in the same time

Discussing in the general forum about Melta and the comparison to Rokkitz came up.

A Multi-Melta is currently 2 shots at 24' S8 AP-4 and D6 dmg with D6+2 dmg if within half range. For all of that a Space Marine gets it for 10pts.

A Rokkit is the same price, same strength, same range but gets half the shots, half the AP and Flat 3dmg.

So with that in mind, do you think Gdubz is going to buff the Rokkit whenever we get our codex, do you think they will just leave it as is or do you think it will get a price reduction?

I would really like to see the rokkit either gain an extra shot OR go back down to 5pts which would reduce the price of a host of our vehicles and units by a significant amount. The Twin Rokkit Kopta for instance would go down 10ppm, the Scrapjet would theoretically go down 20-25pts etc. (Rokkit cannon averages 4 shots and wing missile is basically a rokkit)

SemperMortis wrote:
Discussing in the general forum about Melta and the comparison to Rokkitz came up.

A Multi-Melta is currently 2 shots at 24' S8 AP-4 and D6 dmg with D6+2 dmg if within half range. For all of that a Space Marine gets it for 10pts.

A Rokkit is the same price, same strength, same range but gets half the shots, half the AP and Flat 3dmg.

So with that in mind, do you think Gdubz is going to buff the Rokkit whenever we get our codex, do you think they will just leave it as is or do you think it will get a price reduction?

I would really like to see the rokkit either gain an extra shot OR go back down to 5pts which would reduce the price of a host of our vehicles and units by a significant amount. The Twin Rokkit Kopta for instance would go down 10ppm, the Scrapjet would theoretically go down 20-25pts etc. (Rokkit cannon averages 4 shots and wing missile is basically a rokkit)

I doubt GW is going to change the stats for the rokkit since it was more or less has stayed the same throughout it's incarnation so far. At most I would say it gets an extra shot like you mentioned, which would help a lot to manage our BS5+. I know units like Killa Kanz and units with twin rokkits would really benefit from getting double the amount of shots so it doesn't seem like a waste of time when you shoot them.

Rokkit stats are fine, if anything the price will change.
S8 AP2 3D is pretty dang good, even if its only 24" range and on a usually BS5 model. I commonly piss people off with the random rokkit damage lol

I'd gladly take double shots on rokkits for the same price, would boost the hell out of my Killa Kanz and both the Nauts funnily enough as they both have 2 rokkit launchers.

10pts for 2 shots feels a bit much to me. I feel like we'd suddenly be firing like 60+ rokkits on average.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
10pts for 2 shots feels a bit much to me. I feel like we'd suddenly be firing like 60+ rokkits on average.

Right, but with Deffskullz likely being toned down so we don't get to reroll as much, I think it isn't that crazy given that we can no longer take them on stuff like trukks and battlewagons where it would become overly used. Wing missiles and presumably the big rokkit kannon on the megatrakk scrapjets wouldn't be changed here. The only area of potential trouble are tankbustas and maybe deffkoptas, but even then they would be more reliable for their glass cannon role in destroying an enemy unit before being absolutely murdered.

My hope is that they bring the other klans up rather than docking the 1 really good one that we have. It plays so well with our random damage and poor BS.

I dont understand how they can nerf orks when every release so far has been nuts.

 Dr.Duck wrote:
My hope is that they bring the other klans up rather than docking the 1 really good one that we have. It plays so well with our random damage and poor BS.

I dont understand how they can nerf orks when every release so far has been nuts.

Hey hey man! Saga of the Beats with tons of new custom jobs and strategems, clan powers and ghazzy has been nuts? Or our last codex? Or Vigilus Defiant with relikt SSAG etc.? C' mon!

 Vineheart01 wrote:
10pts for 2 shots feels a bit much to me. I feel like we'd suddenly be firing like 60+ rokkits on average.

I still like the idea of all models just getting 1 shot of rokkit for every rokkit modeled on them. This could easily bring kanz (3 per model) and koptas (4 per model) back into decent shooting territory without making rokkits on nobz or tankbustas insane.

A few pages back people were asking about how to play green tide. Here’s my take. It’s very important to keep your army together and not spread out all over the field too early. Moving one unit of 30 boys onto an objective alone isn’t going to end well. Save your command points for skarboyz, medisquig, force field projecta, hit em harder don’t worry about tellyporta it’s more fun than effective. Bring some grots in 10 man units to soak up some fire and hold objectives when you can hide them out of LOS. Meganobz should be in 5 man units or less your gonna want two or three squads with as many killsawz as you can afford. Mega Mek is very good if you use him correctly. I recently started to bring a bike boss with my horse and he weaves around well enough to help boys advance and charge and also benefits from look out sir. He is fragile and with Ghaz has no invuln so be patient with him don’t just charge whatever is available. Ghaz is too good not to take with skarboyz. For secondary objectives this is always the struggle with orks that depends heavily on the map & opponent. But for games with 5 objectives domination is very good. You can even have success with while we stand we fight if you are running 30 man blobs as you can generally plan to keep Ghaz and at least one unit alive with green tide. Banners/scramblers are good too since you aren’t gonna be doing much shooting. Hope this is helpful and not just a rambling jumble. Most importantly play the objectives not the opponent make them adjust to you don’t get distracted by the beautiful celebrities!

 Jidmah wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
10pts for 2 shots feels a bit much to me. I feel like we'd suddenly be firing like 60+ rokkits on average.

I still like the idea of all models just getting 1 shot of rokkit for every rokkit modeled on them. This could easily bring kanz (3 per model) and koptas (4 per model) back into decent shooting territory without making rokkits on nobz or tankbustas insane.

That does make sense.
Never understood why its the same rokkit profile the boyz have and the kanz, which are clearly a triple rokkit.
Or deffdread's underslung gun mounts duo-rokkits.

Greenblood wrote:
A few pages back people were asking about how to play green tide. Here’s my take. It’s very important to keep your army together and not spread out all over the field too early. Moving one unit of 30 boys onto an objective alone isn’t going to end well. Save your command points for skarboyz, medisquig, force field projecta, hit em harder don’t worry about tellyporta it’s more fun than effective. Bring some grots in 10 man units to soak up some fire and hold objectives when you can hide them out of LOS. Meganobz should be in 5 man units or less your gonna want two or three squads with as many killsawz as you can afford. Mega Mek is very good if you use him correctly. I recently started to bring a bike boss with my horse and he weaves around well enough to help boys advance and charge and also benefits from look out sir. He is fragile and with Ghaz has no invuln so be patient with him don’t just charge whatever is available. Ghaz is too good not to take with skarboyz. For secondary objectives this is always the struggle with orks that depends heavily on the map & opponent. But for games with 5 objectives domination is very good. You can even have success with while we stand we fight if you are running 30 man blobs as you can generally plan to keep Ghaz and at least one unit alive with green tide. Banners/scramblers are good too since you aren’t gonna be doing much shooting. Hope this is helpful and not just a rambling jumble. Most importantly play the objectives not the opponent make them adjust to you don’t get distracted by the beautiful celebrities!

Thanks!

 Vineheart01 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
10pts for 2 shots feels a bit much to me. I feel like we'd suddenly be firing like 60+ rokkits on average.

I still like the idea of all models just getting 1 shot of rokkit for every rokkit modeled on them. This could easily bring kanz (3 per model) and koptas (4 per model) back into decent shooting territory without making rokkits on nobz or tankbustas insane.

That does make sense.
Never understood why its the same rokkit profile the boyz have and the kanz, which are clearly a triple rokkit.
Or deffdread's underslung gun mounts duo-rokkits.

Shokkjump dragsta's got 3 rokkits as well.

Hey guys. Are burna bommas allowed to throw both bombs at the same time? It says it "can" drop a burna bomb, but does that "can" exclude two burna bombs?

I feel like It "can" drop a burna bomb as it flies over enemy units" is a weak word to try and exclude that it cant use two bombs if thats the case.
Depending on how you put the pressure on the word, "can" doesnt have to exclude. like, you "can" get a piece of paper, but you could also get two pieces of paper. I "can" drop a bomb but i could also drop "both" bombs.
Im just confused as they already have a text for the stompa "Only one supa-rokkit can be fired by the bearer per turn, and each can only be fired once per battle.". In no way can you be confused about whether this can be done once or twice.
I mean change that to: "Only a single bomb can be dropped by the bearer per turn, and each can only be dropped once per battle" when the burna bommer has 2 bombs. that would clear all confusion. The Stompa Supa Rokkits are also very explicit in that it cant be fired twice per turn. If you should only throw a single bomb per round, why wouldnt it be explicitly stated?

 Tomsug wrote:

 Dr.Duck wrote:
My hope is that they bring the other klans up rather than docking the 1 really good one that we have. It plays so well with our random damage and poor BS.

I dont understand how they can nerf orks when every release so far has been nuts.

Hey hey man! Saga of the Beats with tons of new custom jobs and strategems, clan powers and ghazzy has been nuts? Or our last codex? Or Vigilus Defiant with relikt SSAG etc.? C' mon!

refering to 9th edition releases in general being nuts and the prior comment talking about nerfing deffskullz.

Im not sure what ur getting at

If there is a wish list for the new codex, put there flamers on MANz for me...

And I mean FLAMERS. Not the joke called Burna...

 Tomsug wrote:
If there is a wish list for the new codex, put there flamers on MANz for me...

And I mean FLAMERS. Not the joke called Burna...

Not sure I understand. MANZ can't get Burnas they can take scorchas, which are much better. Just need more range. 8" is too short.

 warhead01 wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
If there is a wish list for the new codex, put there flamers on MANz for me...

And I mean FLAMERS. Not the joke called Burna...

Not sure I understand. MANZ can't get Burnas they can take scorchas, which are much better. Just need more range. 8" is too short.

Yeah, it' s Skorcha. Anyway, it' s useless.

The start collecting box is no longer available online. Sign of a new box/book earlier than we thought?

 Vineheart01 wrote:
10pts for 2 shots feels a bit much to me. I feel like we'd suddenly be firing like 60+ rokkits on average.

Compare 2 shots at 10pts to a Multi-melta getting 2 shots at 20pts for Space Marines. So the Ork gets 4 shots at 20pts, 4 shots = 1.55 hits which = 1 wound against T5-7. Against a 3+ save that is 0.66 chance to get 3dmg, or basically averages 2dmg a turn. The Multimelta gets 2 shots for 1.33 hits, against T5-7 that is 0.86 wounds and at -4AP it goes through the 3+ to do D6 dmg or 3.5 which = 3.1dmg a turn.

Now there are some things to look at, ease of access to rerolls to hit/wound, abilities which increase damage and/or shot potential, And in all of those? The Space Marine wins. What about durability? An Ork boy is T4 with a 6+ save, A Marine is T4 with a 3+ and 2 wounds. So at the moment 2 ork boyz with Rokkitz = 36pts, A Marine with a Multi-Melta is 38pts. Again there are a host of other factors to consider, but doubling rokkit shots would make them still worse point for point than a Marine with a Multi-melta but at least on the same footing or will close the gap significantly to the point where you might actually take a Rokkit on a Boyz mob as opposed to going in bare bones.

On the more "problematic" ork units like Tankbustas, ATM Tankbustas are actually CHEAPER than a Boy with a Rokkit, (Which shows how over priced rokkitz are since Tankbustas aren't widely used in Competitive games atm). a unit of 9 Tankbustas would get 18 shots now instead of 9 and would do 10.6 hits vs Vehicles, against T5-7 that is 7.1 wounds and against a 3+ that is 4.7 ish going through for about 14 dmg a turn on average. Not bad for a 153pt unit, A Unit of 3 Eradicators with Heavy rifles and a MM is 155pts and averages 4 shots from the heavy rifles and 4 shots from the Multi-melta, that is 2.66 hits each, against T5-7 that is 1.77 wounds each and goes through the 3+ armor. Those heavy rifles will do 9.7dmg and the Multi-melta will do 6.2ish for a total of almost 16dmg so more than the average dmg of those Tankbustas, and the kicker? at half range that dmg goes up to 22.9

So, doubling the Rokkit to 2 shots each would actually make them still worse point for point than a Multi-melta but would absolutely make them more competitive.

Hey guys. Would someone mind looking at my Goff list and say what i would need to change out to improve it? Its basically just inspired heavily by Goff ghaz blobs but im not sure what the perfect loadout is yet. I have, however, won two times in a row with this army. So i feel like its doing well, but im always looking for things to improve upon.




I would run with killsaws for my Nobs in the Boyz squads, but i dont have any Killsaws to spare sadly. So what do you think? What would you change? Ditch the Burna-bommer for more Mega Nobs maybe? Ive spread out my Mek Gunz in order to make my own deployment better, by putting down 1 mek gun, then 2 mek guns, and then 2 again, rather than slamming down all 5 at the same time. I wouldnt go for while we stand we fight here anyway as it would be Ghaz and 2 Boyz squads. and they tend to be close to death if not entirely dead by turn 5.

 Tomsug wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
If there is a wish list for the new codex, put there flamers on MANz for me...

And I mean FLAMERS. Not the joke called Burna...

Not sure I understand. MANZ can't get Burnas they can take scorchas, which are much better. Just need more range. 8" is too short.

Yeah, it' s Skorcha. Anyway, it' s useless.

Lot's of stuff is useless.
It's almost better than a flamer. It'd be a heavy flamer if it had the same range. Just like everything else, 1 isn't very good, 3 or more is way better. Just needs a bit more range.

Beardedragon wrote:
Hey guys. Would someone mind looking at my Goff list and say what i would need to change out to improve it? Its basically just inspired heavily by Goff ghaz blobs but im not sure what the perfect loadout is yet. I have, however, won two times in a row with this army. So i feel like its doing well, but im always looking for things to improve upon.

Spoiler:

Battalion.

Goff.

HQs:
Big Mek w/Kustom Force Field (Warlord, Follow me, Ladz!)
Ghazghkull The destroyer of gods
Weirdboy (Warphead, Scorched Gitbonez, Da Jump/Warpath (i thought about giving him super cybork instead of gitbonez)

Troops:
1 Nob with powerklaw/slugga, 29 Boyz with slugga/Choppa. 3 tankbusta bombs.
1 Nob with powerklaw/slugga, 29 Boyz with slugga/Choppa. 3 tankbusta bombs.
1 Nob with powerklaw/slugga, 27 Boyz with slugga/Choppa. 2 tankbusta bombs.

Elites:
5 kommandos (no boss with powerklaw)
5 kommandos (no boss with powerklaw)

4x Mega nobs with Double Killsaws
4x Mega nobs with Double Killsaws

Painboy

Heavy Support:
2x Mek Gunz: Smasha Gun
2x Mek Gunz: Smasha Gun
1x Mek Gunz: Smasha Gun

Dedicated Flyer:
Burna-Bommer

I would run with killsaws for my Nobs in the Boyz squads, but i dont have any Killsaws to spare sadly. So what do you think? What would you change? Ditch the Burna-bommer for more Mega Nobs maybe? Ive spread out my Mek Gunz in order to make my own deployment better, by putting down 1 mek gun, then 2 mek guns, and then 2 again, rather than slamming down all 5 at the same time. I wouldnt go for while we stand we fight here anyway as it would be Ghaz and 2 Boyz squads. and they tend to be close to death if not entirely dead by turn 5.

Well, the appeal of goffs is the SkarBoyz really. I think Deathskulls make better meganobs thanks to Pbsec and also as both the MANz (and typically their trukk) suddenly gain a 6++.

If you're running Goffs, I'd lean harder into the SkarBoyz.

 warhead01 wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
If there is a wish list for the new codex, put there flamers on MANz for me...

And I mean FLAMERS. Not the joke called Burna...

Not sure I understand. MANZ can't get Burnas they can take scorchas, which are much better. Just need more range. 8" is too short.

Yeah, it' s Skorcha. Anyway, it' s useless.

Lot's of stuff is useless.
It's almost better than a flamer. It'd be a heavy flamer if it had the same range. Just like everything else, 1 isn't very good, 3 or more is way better. Just needs a bit more range.

Yeah if orks do get the 12" range and skorchas stay the same statewise it could be rather fun to deepstrike a big unit of meganobz down with skorchas to toast some mid to low level infantry.

cody.d. wrote:

Yeah if orks do get the 12" range and skorchas stay the same statewise it could be rather fun to deepstrike a big unit of meganobz down with skorchas to toast some mid to low level infantry.

Or make it a independed weapon for few bucks. Or both. I have a great idea to kitbash Skorcha-MANz and I need some rules

 Sluggaloo wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
Hey guys. Would someone mind looking at my Goff list and say what i would need to change out to improve it? Its basically just inspired heavily by Goff ghaz blobs but im not sure what the perfect loadout is yet. I have, however, won two times in a row with this army. So i feel like its doing well, but im always looking for things to improve upon.

Spoiler:

Battalion.

Goff.

HQs:
Big Mek w/Kustom Force Field (Warlord, Follow me, Ladz!)
Ghazghkull The destroyer of gods
Weirdboy (Warphead, Scorched Gitbonez, Da Jump/Warpath (i thought about giving him super cybork instead of gitbonez)

Troops:
1 Nob with powerklaw/slugga, 29 Boyz with slugga/Choppa. 3 tankbusta bombs.
1 Nob with powerklaw/slugga, 29 Boyz with slugga/Choppa. 3 tankbusta bombs.
1 Nob with powerklaw/slugga, 27 Boyz with slugga/Choppa. 2 tankbusta bombs.

Elites:
5 kommandos (no boss with powerklaw)
5 kommandos (no boss with powerklaw)

4x Mega nobs with Double Killsaws
4x Mega nobs with Double Killsaws

Painboy

Heavy Support:
2x Mek Gunz: Smasha Gun
2x Mek Gunz: Smasha Gun
1x Mek Gunz: Smasha Gun

Dedicated Flyer:
Burna-Bommer

I would run with killsaws for my Nobs in the Boyz squads, but i dont have any Killsaws to spare sadly. So what do you think? What would you change? Ditch the Burna-bommer for more Mega Nobs maybe? Ive spread out my Mek Gunz in order to make my own deployment better, by putting down 1 mek gun, then 2 mek guns, and then 2 again, rather than slamming down all 5 at the same time. I wouldnt go for while we stand we fight here anyway as it would be Ghaz and 2 Boyz squads. and they tend to be close to death if not entirely dead by turn 5.

Well, the appeal of goffs is the SkarBoyz really. I think Deathskulls make better meganobs thanks to Pbsec and also as both the MANz (and typically their trukk) suddenly gain a 6++.

If you're running Goffs, I'd lean harder into the SkarBoyz.

ah christ i forgot to write that they WERE SkarBoyz

With the discussion of rokkits, I always felt that the main reason ork vehicles have multiple rokkits and the infantry have singular is because the infantry can reload their rokkits and the vehicles can't.

What I'd like to see is ork vehicles rokkits becoming one-use and being allowed to fire multiples per turn. For example, deffkoptas have 4 rokkits, that's their lot for the battle, and they drop in points because of it.
Perhaps have a new mek unit "Ammo Boys", who can use mek tools to restore fired rokkits instead of wounds.

Does anyone know if a blood axe kill tank can fall back and both shoot and charge ? The blood axe trait says "In addition, units with this kultur can shoot or charge (but not both) even if they
Fell Back in the same turn."
So I think this does not bode well for my idea of triple blood axe tank (which is anyway just a vague idea at this point)

 Afrodactyl wrote:
The start collecting box is no longer available online. Sign of a new box/book earlier than we thought?

Not impossible. As the new fluff warzone is Charadon from original Lore (in RT the story was about Pedro Kantor trying to sneak through the Arch-Arsonists lines) it feels close.

 Tomsug wrote:

cody.d. wrote:

Yeah if orks do get the 12" range and skorchas stay the same statewise it could be rather fun to deepstrike a big unit of meganobz down with skorchas to toast some mid to low level infantry.

Or make it a independed weapon for few bucks. Or both. I have a great idea to kitbash Skorcha-MANz and I need some rules

I'd enjoyed 3 with kombi-shorchas in a trukk for the big move and advance and roast the squishy infantry while on the way to their target.
With the current shooting rules if they get bogged down with chaff at least they get auto hits while shooting.

What do you mean by an independent weapon? Like a character MANZ or what?

 warhead01 wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:

cody.d. wrote:

Yeah if orks do get the 12" range and skorchas stay the same statewise it could be rather fun to deepstrike a big unit of meganobz down with skorchas to toast some mid to low level infantry.

Or make it a independed weapon for few bucks. Or both. I have a great idea to kitbash Skorcha-MANz and I need some rules

I'd enjoyed 3 with kombi-shorchas in a trukk for the big move and advance and roast the squishy infantry while on the way to their target.
With the current shooting rules if they get bogged down with chaff at least they get auto hits while shooting.

What do you mean by an independent weapon? Like a character MANZ or what?

Manz aren't vehicules, how do they shoot when bogged down ? I mean it would be cool if they could, and if scorchas were not overpriced

 addnid wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:

cody.d. wrote:

Yeah if orks do get the 12" range and skorchas stay the same statewise it could be rather fun to deepstrike a big unit of meganobz down with skorchas to toast some mid to low level infantry.

Or make it a independed weapon for few bucks. Or both. I have a great idea to kitbash Skorcha-MANz and I need some rules

I'd enjoyed 3 with kombi-shorchas in a trukk for the big move and advance and roast the squishy infantry while on the way to their target.
With the current shooting rules if they get bogged down with chaff at least they get auto hits while shooting.

What do you mean by an independent weapon? Like a character MANZ or what?

Manz aren't vehicules, how do they shoot when bogged down ? I mean it would be cool if they could, and if scorchas were not overpriced

Alright, good catch.
I goofed up on that. Maybe next edition.

Skorcha = just skorcha, not kombi weapon.

I don' t see a point in in driving somewhere or DS somewhere and burning something. MANZz are CCmonsters and want to charge. So you can easily burn what youwant to charge.

Iwant to have a flamers like protection againts other charges

If Grot Mega tanks have their Scorchas increased to 12 inches like all other flamethrower weapons apparently get with their new codexes or updates, i will probably try and meddle around with a Grot Mega Tank with a full loadout of Scorchas.

Thats 7 Scorchas or so on one model. Whether its good or not i do not know, but it sounds fun as hell.

Hi fellow greenskins, so I haven't tried "all my buggies at once" yet, and my team prep (against another team) is coming up 8th may, and I am to be the ork player. Here is the list I am thinking of taking (i manually translated the french trerms, because i use a french army editor, should be quite easy to get, if not sorry).
Engage on all fronts or domination (the kopta is there to ensure 1st turn scoring if I go for engage) and either deploy scramblers or banners will be my go to objectives. The army hands out grind them down and bring them down like candy, but itsagrotslife isn't it ?

What do you green and mean people think about this ? Have been playing nids and DA lately more than orks, so I could be rusty AF and totally wrong on this. I don't think KBBs really need their mortal wound dealing KJob, but I guess I could put it ? Won't be using many CPs as far as I can see

Alright ya gitz, its time. We are getting closer and closer to the new ork codex getting released and we have just had a major reveal by GW about the Mechanicus weapons upgrades. I want to highlight this because it may be an indicator that ork weapons get an upgrade.

Galvanic rifles just became -1AP and lost their ability to gain -1AP on a roll of a 6. They also went from Rapid fire 1 to Heavy 2

Arc Rifles just gained 6' range, an extra -1AP and went from 1dmg to D3

Cognis flamer lost its special rules and became D6+2 auto-hits at 12' range.

Cognis stubber went from Heavy 3 to Assault 4.

and now the two most interesting upgrades.

Cognis Auto-cannons just went from Heavy 4 to assault 6.

And the Cognis Lascannon went from heavy 2 to Assault 2 and went from D6 dmg to D3+3

The Auto-cannon is probably the most important to orkz because it might indicate the lootas getting an upgrade of some kind. ATM (Pre buff) those cognis autocannons were averaging 2.66 hits a turn for 65pts on a model that is T6 with 6wounds and a 4+ save.

Now its averaging 4 hits a turn, that is an increase of 33%. If the Ballistarius does not receive a points bump (65pts atm) than to get the same number of hits from a unit of lootas we would need over 100pts of Lootas or 33% more than the Mechanicus unit, not to mention, unlike orkz, Mechanicus has relatively easy access to rerolls.

Taking all of that into account, do you think lootas get a bump? I'm personally hoping that based on this the deffgun goes to D3+2, but preferably D3+3, or, god forbid, GW gives Lootas, a dedicated shooting unit, a 4+ to hit. and just bumps them to 3 shots each

SemperMortis wrote:
Alright ya gitz, its time. We are getting closer and closer to the new ork codex getting released and we have just had a major reveal by GW about the Mechanicus weapons upgrades. I want to highlight this because it may be an indicator that ork weapons get an upgrade.

Galvanic rifles just became -1AP and lost their ability to gain -1AP on a roll of a 6. They also went from Rapid fire 1 to Heavy 2

Arc Rifles just gained 6' range, an extra -1AP and went from 1dmg to D3

Cognis flamer lost its special rules and became D6+2 auto-hits at 12' range.

Cognis stubber went from Heavy 3 to Assault 4.

and now the two most interesting upgrades.

Cognis Auto-cannons just went from Heavy 4 to assault 6.

And the Cognis Lascannon went from heavy 2 to Assault 2 and went from D6 dmg to D3+3

The Auto-cannon is probably the most important to orkz because it might indicate the lootas getting an upgrade of some kind. ATM (Pre buff) those cognis autocannons were averaging 2.66 hits a turn for 65pts on a model that is T6 with 6wounds and a 4+ save.

Now its averaging 4 hits a turn, that is an increase of 33%. If the Ballistarius does not receive a points bump (65pts atm) than to get the same number of hits from a unit of lootas we would need over 100pts of Lootas or 33% more than the Mechanicus unit, not to mention, unlike orkz, Mechanicus has relatively easy access to rerolls.

Taking all of that into account, do you think lootas get a bump? I'm personally hoping that based on this the deffgun goes to D3+2, but preferably D3+3, or, god forbid, GW gives Lootas, a dedicated shooting unit, a 4+ to hit. and just bumps them to 3 shots each

I can see that GW is still upping the arms race when it comes to weaponry across several factions, assuming Orks are part of this trend given that we're close to our new codex in several months, I feel that the Deffgun will likely have either a flat 3 shots per gun or something like 2D3 shots. Since Galvanic rifles got some loving, I can see the shoota either bumping up in range to 24" or getting an extra shot. Hell, they may even take a cue from boomsticks and make shoota weapons in general get +1 to hit when they're in half-range to promote the idea of Orks rushing in to get to see their dakka results up close.

I see the D3+3 damage to cross over to our kustom mega weaponry given that we don't really have a lascannon equivalent that is widely available to the army. I can see the traktor kannon doing D3+3 against FLY units versus the 2D6 pick the highest they have right now. Smasha Gunz may be left alone to make it so there's a reason for you to pay the premium for the other mek gun options.

Big Shootas are almost guaranteed to be -1AP at this point, it's just a question of more shots or if they get D2 like heavy bolters. Burnas will either be a flat 3 shots each or D6 as they should have been to begin with. Snazzguns are the real question mark for me, since I can see them becoming base 36" range but I'm not sure if they'll buff their AP or damage given that they're already within the stats range for killing Primaris.

I'm hoping at the very least the Killkannon gets some loving in terms of stats, it really needs to be 2D6 shots base with 36" range to be worth taking when its competing against the kannonwagon.

I take the arms race that regular armour is becoming increasingly irrelevant in favour of fields and ignore.

On weapon particulars I guess Skorchas goes to 12" and Choppas may get AP1 as Wracks got it. Power Stabbas probably into Legend.

Choppas getting AP-1 is definitely happening. All basic AP0 weapons like chainswords, wyches' blades, wracks' tools, etc.. got it. Skorcha's range will definitely be 12''.

Big shootas getting AP-1 or D2, maybe even both, looks almost guaranteed now.

D3+3 or D2+6 on kustom weapons is also very likely.

Anything else is probably too soon to say.

Oh good, everything's becoming more deadly! that's exactly what the game needed! /s]

how are you supposed to make tactics when everything is getting better and better at wiping out entire units? I remember positioning units of 30 on the basis of "what's left will charge them next turn", but now there's never a "what's left" because 10 guns just hosed the entire unit down!

I don't want it to be easier to kill each other, I want it to be a challenge! I want my positioning of 3 supposedly hard units on the flank to be an issue for my opponent. It seems that things are becoming so powerful now that people are deciding which 6 units they will delete this turn, instead of what to prioritise in crippling or whether to focus it all on one unit!

Couldn´t agree more. 9th started with terrain mattering more and raising survivability and now Str and AP is just escalating by the minute.

In fact this 3 layer saving throw nonsense is getting to close to skirmish games. A part of the beauty with 40k is simplicity imo.

 some bloke wrote:
Oh good, everything's becoming more deadly! that's exactly what the game needed! /s]

Naked baselines might give that impression, but there are also other things that mitigate (or at least they should try to mitigate) lethality. Many sources of re-rolls or shooting twice combos are gone, and while modifiers to hit cannot be stacked anymore it's also very easy to give a -1 to units that used to gain no benefit from terrain. Some units like dreads have now tools to automatically reduce damage, and all the new codexes have easy ways to resuscitate fallen models. Points costs on average are in 9th a bit higher than older standars which also contributes to mitigate the escalation of lethality.

Overall I'm not sure that lethality is increasing. Looking at SM, SW and Drukhari codexes (I don't know the other factions with a 9th codex in detail) it doesn't really look like that, those armies aren't really more lethal and/or more squishy than they used to be in the previous edition.

I'd be in favor of a much lesser lethal game overall, but at the same time I can't accept rolling buckets of dice for choppas or big shootas attacks only to get something close to no results.

Yeah, last game againts some Death Guard my shooting buggy list with kannonwagons killed exactly 1 poxwalker in shooting... well and about 15dmg to mortarion and 10 another to some vehicle but in fact, yes. There was so many -1 to hit, reduce damage and FNP on the table + my rolls were super bad it becames really hard to really kill something. All my dragstas rolled after re-roll 2 or 3 on dmg... -1 reduction and than fnp... wtf?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
2 Orks on goonhammer from Ratcon. Both deathskulls. One of them with Ghazzy.

Both have 3x KMB deaffdreads
Both have SMGs

Article:
https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-ratcon-2021-comic-quest-gt/?fbclid=IwAR0BAJaBkNbS6y4u76Ty5c4MJ8C5JRqQa-JpRp8OEHDWyvfLFswTSqqM4p8

Lists:

https://downunderpairings.com/ArmyList.php?ArmyID=32145

https://downunderpairings.com/ArmyList.php?ArmyID=32264

warhead01 wrote:I wish they're change it back to with in, instead of wholly within. That's be fantastic for 9th.

What is the direction of new codicies for "wholly within" and "within" in general?

AoS 2.0 move very heavily towards anything as a buff as wholly and anything attacking the opponent as within. This stopped stringing out conga lines and forced the support to be closer to the unit it supported. And then still allowed you to target the enemy just needing to see at least one model for the enemy.

Is 40k in 9th following a similar pattern?

 Tomsug wrote:
Yeah, last game againts some Death Guard my shooting buggy list with kannonwagons killed exactly 1 poxwalker in shooting... well and about 15dmg to mortarion and 10 another to some vehicle but in fact, yes. There was so many -1 to hit, reduce damage and FNP on the table + my rolls were super bad it becames really hard to really kill something. All my dragstas rolled after re-roll 2 or 3 on dmg... -1 reduction and than fnp... wtf?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
2 Orks on goonhammer from Ratcon. Both deathskulls. One of them with Ghazzy.

Both have 3x KMB deaffdreads
Both have SMGs

Article:
https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-ratcon-2021-comic-quest-gt/?fbclid=IwAR0BAJaBkNbS6y4u76Ty5c4MJ8C5JRqQa-JpRp8OEHDWyvfLFswTSqqM4p8

Lists:

https://downunderpairings.com/ArmyList.php?ArmyID=32145

https://downunderpairings.com/ArmyList.php?ArmyID=32264

Im not sure i understand the army with Ghaz in it. It also had a painboy, but it was a deathskulls detatchment? As i understand it, a ghaz in a deathskulls detatchment cant be healed by the painboy, because Ghaz has Goff keyword?

Just thought of something...if all these weapons are getting upgrades and they actually upgrade ork weapons....What will happen to dakkagunz? They are basically big shootas with half the range, if they actually bumped them to AP-1 and 2dmg, they would be scary for a change...basically what big shootas should have been forever

SemperMortis wrote:
Just thought of something...if all these weapons are getting upgrades and they actually upgrade ork weapons....What will happen to dakkagunz? They are basically big shootas with half the range, if they actually bumped them to AP-1 and 2dmg, they would be scary for a change...basically what big shootas should have been forever

That's actually a really good point, dakkaguns are just sawed off big shootas, so I would expect at the very least AP-1. I'm not sure if they would be damage 2 just because they have double the amount of shots but if they do it would make them legitimately useful as a unit.

Hell, it make both normal warbikers and nob bikerz pretty decent assuming some points changes are made between the two. It would also give them a more distinct role now that we have dedicated CC calvary coming in with Beast Snaggas.

I mean, any change to big shootas and or dakkagunz is going to have rather sizable ramifications. We have so many of them and most of the vehicles who can or do have them tend to have 2 to 4 of them at once. Still keen to see our simplified datasheets when they start to pop up like admech and sisters. Should be in a couple weeks right?

Do we actually know when the codex is going to drop?

 BertBert wrote:
Do we actually know when the codex is going to drop?

It's implied that the next codices before us are Adeptus Mechanicus first, and then likely SoB. So I would say sometime late summer or potentially at the beginning of Fall depending on how much they push past the COVID backlog.

To elaborate a little on what Grumskul said. GW gave us April in binary for admech correct? We've heard that Belakor is slated for preorder this weekend coming so we're waiting to see if admech go up for pre-order on the 24th. (so much for an April release huh?)

The amount of Sisters stuff shown implies an imminent release and the datasheets making the rounds means that at least the repackaged boxes are nearing stockists. So perhaps 2 to 4 weeks after admech assuming GW keeps up the alternating AOS/40K releases.

And yes I'm assuming a fair bit but don't feel i'm reaching too far. So unless there is other stuff that GW hasn't teased as of yet we can guestimate an ork release in about 6 to 8 weeks time. (The GW release schedule does seem to have returned to post covid/lost container rates. Unless Evergreen has another delay working down the pipeline.)

Apologise if that post was a little rambely.

Beardedragon wrote:

Im not sure i understand the army with Ghaz in it. It also had a painboy, but it was a deathskulls detatchment? As i understand it, a ghaz in a deathskulls detatchment cant be healed by the painboy, because Ghaz has Goff keyword?

Me neither. Maybe typo?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BertBert wrote:
Do we actually know when the codex is going to drop?

Orktober. I say it all the time and now it' s obvious. Orktober is the answer, orktober is the reason.

Ad Mech end of April.
Than comes sisters, there is about 2 months between codexes. So lets say and of June.
GW release business report for shareholders in half of July, so it makes sence.
And of June plus 2 months is end August. But hey man, it' s a summer and covid. Add one month, it' s end September, so let' s make a pre order in Sept and actual distribution in Oct and call it Orktober.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or like the last time, pre order 29th of Oct and you get your codex short before Christmas.

Waiting for the codex can ruin your summer. Skip it and write to Santa.

I would be shocked if Big Shootas change at all.

 TedNugent wrote:
I would be shocked if Big Shootas change at all.

Big Shootas need to change, because right now it is barely worth rolling the dice for a vehicle that has one or two.

 Bonde wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
I would be shocked if Big Shootas change at all.

Big Shootas need to change, because right now it is barely worth rolling the dice for a vehicle that has one or two.

That' s true but absolutely no guarantee of anything.

After seeing heavy stubbers get an extra shot in the Ad Mech previews perhaps that’s all we’ll get for big shootas. It would be disappointing if so.

Last thing the game needs, and orks in particular, is more dice rolling.

Move Deff Dreads and Killa Kanz to Elite slot. That way they will be used more often and dont take up precious Heavy Support slots.

Many Dreadnoughts already only take elite slots

Beardedragon wrote:
Move Deff Dreads and Killa Kanz to Elite slot. That way they will be used more often and dont take up precious Heavy Support slots.

Many Dreadnoughts already only take elite slots

I fully agree! I really want to use Deff Dreads and Meka-dreads in my BW list, because the walkers are not survivable enough on their own, but right now there are not enough Heavy Support slots for them, unless I spend CP on a Spearhead formation.

If anything they should move because the Heavy slot is over populated while the Elite slot really doesnt have much in it.
FA is pretty crowded too but everything there should be there.

But you are right, almost all generic dreads are elite. Its the "bigger" ones that are heavies.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
If anything they should move because the Heavy slot is over populated while the Elite slot really doesnt have much in it.
FA is pretty crowded too but everything there should be there.

But you are right, almost all generic dreads are elite. Its the "bigger" ones that are heavies.

yes that was my main point. Its difficult for me to argue with going for certain models like deff dreads or Mega Dreads in the heavy slot because the heavy slot feels so important for orks, and certain units are required if you run Mek based. Where as the Elite slots dont have much else to really go for except MANZ and Kommandos. And maybe a painboy. Like, all your ranged firepower comes from the heavy support slot. So you cant really take up all the heavy slots with CC power houses there. Otherwise you have no backline shooting.


Also, of course, Lootas should be Elite slot as well. As should Flash Gitz i feel.

 Bonde wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
I would be shocked if Big Shootas change at all.

Big Shootas need to change, because right now it is barely worth rolling the dice for a vehicle that has one or two.

Yes on all accounts, Ted I share your concern and Bonde I agree they aren't worth rolling for the most part. Assuming you buy them on boyz because you are a fethwit 2 big shootas average 2.3 hits 1.55 wounds and against a Space Marines 3+ save 0.518 dmg. Or in other words, you have a 50/50 chance to inflict 1 dmg on a Space Marine. Another way to look at that is you need 8 Big shootas in order to average 1 dead Marine a turn. 8 x 3 = 24 x 0.3333 + DDD = 9.33 x .6666 = 6.22 /3 = 2.07 dmg.

Even doubling their dmg to 2 would only cut the math down to needing 4 big shootas to kill 1 Marine (20pts in just weapons + the platforms) If they go the Heavy stubber route and give us 1 extra shot (Dumb as all hell) the math changes to needing 6 Big Shootas to kill 1 Marine.

Big shootas were under powered and garbage tier well before all the recent durability boosts. Honestly, if they were free they would still be a borderline side grade as opposed to an upgrade over a boyz normal choppa.

The best improve the Big shootas can get is to allow them to not have them on the trukk and spare some points...

 Tomsug wrote:
The best improve the Big shootas can get is to allow them to not have them on the trukk and spare some points...

I mean right now? yeah you aren't wrong. I'd gladly take the 5pt price reduction on trukkz or the 20pt price drop on the Scrapjet

SemperMortis wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
The best improve the Big shootas can get is to allow them to not have them on the trukk and spare some points...

I mean right now? yeah you aren't wrong. I'd gladly take the 5pt price reduction on trukkz or the 20pt price drop on the Scrapjet

Yeap. But honestly, on scrapjets, they are fine. There are 4, half of them hits on 4+... It' s almost enough dakka to clean some guardsman and poxwalkers... it worth to roll them. But 1-2? Meh....

But 20p per scrapjet x 3 scrapjets in my list.... inspiring!

 Tomsug wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
The best improve the Big shootas can get is to allow them to not have them on the trukk and spare some points...

I mean right now? yeah you aren't wrong. I'd gladly take the 5pt price reduction on trukkz or the 20pt price drop on the Scrapjet

Yeap. But honestly, on scrapjets, they are fine. There are 4, half of them hits on 4+... It' s almost enough dakka to clean some guardsman and poxwalkers... it worth to roll them. But 1-2? Meh....

But 20p per scrapjet x 3 scrapjets in my list.... inspiring!

presently a scrapjet gets 5.8 hits a turn with big shootas. Against guardsmen its 3.9 wounds and 2.59 dead Guardsmen, so 2-3 dead guardsmen a turn. What are guard right now? 5 or 6pts each? regardless you are killing low end 10pts (5pt guardsmen) and high end 18pts (6pt guardsmen) not exactly awe inspiring to say the least

Coming late to this conversation but if id have to guess id say an extra shot and -1 AP would be apropriate for Big Shootas. D2 to me feels wrong and doesnt make sense.

4 Shots and at S5 -1 feels like a crude but effective anti infantry profile, with enough shots to maybe see results. If they remain at 5 pts I wouldnt be too bothered with the better profile.

Im kinda hoping the Klaw will finally get a separate stat profile from the Fist.

 Dr.Duck wrote:
Coming late to this conversation but if id have to guess id say an extra shot and -1 AP would be apropriate for Big Shootas. D2 to me feels wrong and doesnt make sense.

4 Shots and at S5 -1 feels like a crude but effective anti infantry profile, with enough shots to maybe see results. If they remain at 5 pts I wouldnt be too bothered with the better profile.

Im kinda hoping the Klaw will finally get a separate stat profile from the Fist.

4 shots at S5 -1AP averages 0.5dmg against a Space Marine a turn. to kill 1 Marine would take 4 turns on average.

I mentioned this before and in other places but my guess is that GW is going to do to big shootas what they did to Heavy stubbers, give them 1 extra shot and say "good enough" which will leave big shootas in the exact position they are currently in. Useless, only taken when you have to.

I can see the big shootas being D2 though, they are meant to be solid slugs darn near the size of fists after all.

Honestly if we had to choose only 1 way to upgrade them I'd choose the 2 damage rather than an AP improvement.

SemperMortis wrote:

presently a scrapjet gets 5.8 hits a turn with big shootas. Against guardsmen its 3.9 wounds and 2.59 dead Guardsmen, so 2-3 dead guardsmen a turn. What are guard right now? 5 or 6pts each? regardless you are killing low end 10pts (5pt guardsmen) and high end 18pts (6pt guardsmen) not exactly awe inspiring to say the least

Yeah... I play with the cards I have. You have 3 MSJ and they have 36”, so can reach far. Not great at all, but the only long range anti infatry weapon excepta some Mega/Giga shootas in our army.

Only other option how to deal with them is short range Burna Exhaust burning CPs pretty well and CC boyz variations.

Ou yes, and supa shootas on some Jets and Burna Bombs. Even less effective... unflexibel.

SemperMortis wrote:

 Dr.Duck wrote:
Coming late to this conversation but if id have to guess id say an extra shot and -1 AP would be apropriate for Big Shootas. D2 to me feels wrong and doesnt make sense.

4 Shots and at S5 -1 feels like a crude but effective anti infantry profile, with enough shots to maybe see results. If they remain at 5 pts I wouldnt be too bothered with the better profile.

Im kinda hoping the Klaw will finally get a separate stat profile from the Fist.

4 shots at S5 -1AP averages 0.5dmg against a Space Marine a turn. to kill 1 Marine would take 4 turns on average.

I mentioned this before and in other places but my guess is that GW is going to do to big shootas what they did to Heavy stubbers, give them 1 extra shot and say "good enough" which will leave big shootas in the exact position they are currently in. Useless, only taken when you have to.

Id say thats appropriate. Big shoota should be a anti light to medium infantry gun, designed at clearing out screens and light infantry such as gaunts, cultists, guard etc. Multi damage guns should be reserved for weapons that contain explosives, high energy whatever stuffs.

4 shots and AP -1 I could live with, if Big Shootas stay at 5pts. If they go up in points, they need to go to D2.

MY MAGIC GLOBE TELLS ME:

choppas ap-1
bigchoppas ap-2
kustom weaponary d6+2 dmg
power klaws loose the -1 to hit or d6dmg
burnas remain d3 but 12" range -3ap in CC
bigshootas either 4 shots -1ap 1dmg or 3 0 2
grots get 'hard to hit' stay at 5points
nob biker and manz get an extra wound
supashootas dmg 2
dakkadakka will be extra hits
doks will be able ro revive d3 boyz or 1 nob (infantry only)
dakkaguns -1ap
burna bomber strat gone
all walkers (no kans) get -1dmg
kans stay the same because feth kans
all vehicles get ramshackle
strat to disembark after trukks move (roll for all, 1's kill a model)
warboss gets +1 attack
biggest strat gone... but replaced with commander rule thingy
taking a super warboss, mek or painboy and you can take a unit of skarboyz, ardboyz or cyborks

what i would like to see the most:
1. charging orks get +1 attack and +1str or -1ap
(+1 to wound is even more wishful thinking)
2. beeing able to take bigchoppas for boyz
3. 6+ fnp across the board, painboyz boost this to 5+

Ok, I played a couple of games with double wazboom. And I have to say KFF is really expendable.

Deathskull wazboom is anyway 6++.

During the game, you can' t keep him to covering your units, so you use it just for the Wazboom himself.

From tactical point of view, you need to put the wazboom on side of your army, to be able zig-zag the field later, to max your points on Engage. And to prevent damage during thir explosions This positions are bad for KFF covering.

And any jets are always priority target. And they come closer to the enemy than the rest of the army, so they shoot them down anyway.

Hey man +15p each? I spared 30p!

i used the wazbom as a Dajump focus point if i couldnt position the wazbom to snipe a character, outside that yeah he really only covers himself.

 Tomsug wrote:
Ok, I played a couple of games with double wazboom. And I have to say KFF is really expendable.

Deathskull wazboom is anyway 6++.

During the game, you can' t keep him to covering your units, so you use it just for the Wazboom himself.

From tactical point of view, you need to put the wazboom on side of your army, to be able zig-zag the field later, to max your points on Engage. And to prevent damage during thir explosions This positions are bad for KFF covering.

And any jets are always priority target. And they come closer to the enemy than the rest of the army, so they shoot them down anyway.

Hey man +15p each? I spared 30p!

I think that's part of the reason why I feel like they should expand the 9" wholly within bubble or to just make it a 6" within bubble instead for the next incarnation of the KFF, it's often unnecessarily restrictive.

 Bonde wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
I would be shocked if Big Shootas change at all.

Big Shootas need to change, because right now it is barely worth rolling the dice for a vehicle that has one or two.

That doesn't mean they're going to change it. Plenty of things need to change, take Cybork bodies, but they don't touch it in release after release, including chapter approved.

Oye ya Gitz!

I’ve been thinking about our new codex and the pending changes. I love Flash Gitz but fully recognize that they are not competitive and I think that is largely due to their points cost, although they struggle to differentiate themselves from pure shooty units i.e. Lootas and Mek Guns or pure choppy units, Mega Nobz, Nobz, Boyz etc...So with the new codex coming in (Orktober?) here are my thoughts on what could be around the corner.

1. Points cost reduced from 32 to 25 (15pts Nob + 10pts Snazzgun). They were 27 at the end of 8th before strangely going back to 32. Honestly at 27 they were probably still too high. 25 seems about right. I think an argument could be made for staying at the higher cost if Gun Crazy Show-offs changed to a 5+

2. The snazzgun Is essentially and orky heavy bolter. With heavy bolters getting a boost that means the relative uniqueness and value of the snazzgun has decreased(more or less). I think we are anticipating some change to the big Shoota(extra shot, AP, and maybe damage) making the Snazzgun redundant. This offers some opportunity to distinguish Gitz from other entries. I think we could see a change in the Snazzgun profile from Heavy to Assault. This would allow for them to close distance and krump; otherwise what is that nob profile for? I doubt we will see a number of shots or damage increase, unless GW goes ape and makes the snazzgun more like plasma or essentially makes Snazzguns assault Deffgunz.

3. The Kaptain gets a power stabba/big Choppa default.

4. They move to the Elites slot.

5. They get “Keepin’ Order” (Or whatever the new version is)

I think the intent of the the unit is to be an all round shooty choppy mercenaries, however in its current iteration it fails to do either well.

Thoughts?

 Da Dread Freeboota Robert wrote:
Oye ya Gitz!

I’ve been thinking about our new codex and the pending changes. I love Flash Gitz but fully recognize that they are not competitive and I think that is largely due to their points cost, although they struggle to differentiate themselves from pure shooty units i.e. Lootas and Mek Guns or pure choppy units, Mega Nobz, Nobz, Boyz etc...So with the new codex coming in (Orktober?) here are my thoughts on what could be around the corner.

1. Points cost reduced from 32 to 25 (15pts Nob + 10pts Snazzgun). They were 27 at the end of 8th before strangely going back to 32. Honestly at 27 they were probably still too high. 25 seems about right. I think an argument could be made for staying at the higher cost if Gun Crazy Show-offs changed to a 5+

2. The snazzgun Is essentially and orky heavy bolter. With heavy bolters getting a boost that means the relative uniqueness and value of the snazzgun has decreased(more or less). I think we are anticipating some change to the big Shoota(extra shot, AP, and maybe damage) making the Snazzgun redundant. This offers some opportunity to distinguish Gitz from other entries. I think we could see a change in the Snazzgun profile from Heavy to Assault. This would allow for them to close distance and krump; otherwise what is that nob profile for? I doubt we will see a number of shots or damage increase, unless GW goes ape and makes the snazzgun more like plasma or essentially makes Snazzguns assault Deffgunz.

3. The Kaptain gets a power stabba/big Choppa default.

4. They move to the Elites slot.

5. They get “Keepin’ Order” (Or whatever the new version is)

I think the intent of the the unit is to be an all round shooty choppy mercenaries, however in its current iteration it fails to do either well.

Thoughts?

Agreed. I think you touched a key part in that Flash Gitz are kind of a weird ranged unit that has Nob stats that it doesn't really utilize except defensively, which is pretty weak in the current 2W marine meta. If Big Shootas only get more shots and AP, I think Flash Gitz's snazzguns currently have a decent enough profile to compete. If they go all in and make Big Shootas AP-1 and D2, I think Flash Gitz should basically be plasma gun stats at this point, with S7 AP3 D2. I think making them back to assault weapons also helps differentiate them from Lootas in having them in transports or roving forward as a mobile fire base while Lootas have the range to mitigate return fire while Flash Gitz have to get into the thick of it with their 24" range guns.

I think Gun Crazy Show Off's should change however. I dislike how swingy it is since you can go for entire games without it coming into play. I'd much prefer it as a passive ability, where they gain 2 hits rather than one for DDD! This would make combo'ing Moar Dakka even more strong on Gitz since then it would proc 2 hits on 5's and 6's. It helps reflect the extra shots you would get from them going full auto on an enemy without it being tied to a very random die roll.

In my instance however, if we incorporated my changes I would assume they would stay the same price or only go down to 30 ppm or something instead of 25.

Yeah october as I said. Sorry guys...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/04/18/our-pre-order-schedules-changing-a-bit-heres-how/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=WH&utm_campaign=Facebook&utm_term=WH-preorder-schedule-changes-APR18&fbclid=IwAR3W7adEXPHl_I6NvCu1E5NPpD3BrOUYPEoaq6rOxf_y1akHYbIBsLkzSc0

 Tomsug wrote:
Yeah october as I said. Sorry guys...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/04/18/our-pre-order-schedules-changing-a-bit-heres-how/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=WH&utm_campaign=Facebook&utm_term=WH-preorder-schedule-changes-APR18&fbclid=IwAR3W7adEXPHl_I6NvCu1E5NPpD3BrOUYPEoaq6rOxf_y1akHYbIBsLkzSc0

Oof. And by Orktober, they probably mean the very end of October we'll get our preorders up. FUN.

 Grimskul wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
Yeah october as I said. Sorry guys...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/04/18/our-pre-order-schedules-changing-a-bit-heres-how/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=WH&utm_campaign=Facebook&utm_term=WH-preorder-schedule-changes-APR18&fbclid=IwAR3W7adEXPHl_I6NvCu1E5NPpD3BrOUYPEoaq6rOxf_y1akHYbIBsLkzSc0

Oof. And by Orktober, they probably mean the very end of October we'll get our preorders up. FUN.

Obviously, there is no real plan. No surprise. All industry in Europe suffers a terible delay. Fkn covid destroied all supply chains, everybody are waiting for some material / spare parts / cargo capacity. It takes a year at least of fix it.

Keep calm, write to Santa and wait and have a spare Agrax in shelf.

 Tomsug wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
Yeah october as I said. Sorry guys...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/04/18/our-pre-order-schedules-changing-a-bit-heres-how/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=WH&utm_campaign=Facebook&utm_term=WH-preorder-schedule-changes-APR18&fbclid=IwAR3W7adEXPHl_I6NvCu1E5NPpD3BrOUYPEoaq6rOxf_y1akHYbIBsLkzSc0

Oof. And by Orktober, they probably mean the very end of October we'll get our preorders up. FUN.

Obviously, there is no real plan. No surprise. All industry in Europe suffers a terible delay. Fkn covid destroied all supply chains, everybody are waiting for some material / spare parts / cargo capacity. It takes a year at least of fix it.

Keep calm, write to Santa and wait and have a spare Agrax in shelf.

But won't somebody think of the grooots?

/s

Yeah, logistics is one of those underappreciated industries people only think of when everything goes wrong. The question is will this be a 1 or 2 week delay or month delay?

On other topics, got another game in with my deffskull triple killtank list and i'm seeing a very strong narrative developing. My opponent will take the midfield early game, get a lead on points then by the end of the game I have 2 killtanks rumbling around and they'll have one or two low strength units left. Last game I lost by around 20 points but in the last turn he had 5 warriors left and I had 2 tanks, 6 mek guns, a trukk, some grots and boyz left. (side not skorpek lords are bloody hard to budge.)

40k has become very infantry/objective/alpha move heavy. Honestly it's very interesting. I've not faced a castle in a long time, things actually move around and interact with one another as they try to take objectives and fufill secondaries. but the terrain styles do make it a bit tricky for non-fly tanks to get around.

cody.d. wrote:
Yeah, logistics is one of those underappreciated industries people only think of when everything goes wrong. The question is will this be a 1 or 2 week delay or month delay?

On other topics, got another game in with my deffskull triple killtank list and i'm seeing a very strong narrative developing. My opponent will take the midfield early game, get a lead on points then by the end of the game I have 2 killtanks rumbling around and they'll have one or two low strength units left. Last game I lost by around 20 points but in the last turn he had 5 warriors left and I had 2 tanks, 6 mek guns, a trukk, some grots and boyz left. (side not skorpek lords are bloody hard to budge.)

40k has become very infantry/objective/alpha move heavy. Honestly it's very interesting. I've not faced a castle in a long time, things actually move around and interact with one another as they try to take objectives and fufill secondaries. but the terrain styles do make it a bit tricky for non-fly tanks to get around.

Thanks for sharing! Glad to hear the killtanks are living up to their name at least and decimating enemy forces. I've had a similar problem as you did, where their sheer size can be a problem when you have to get around big LoS blocking terrain to get to their ideal targets. Did you have the usual 1 bursta/2 giga shoota loadout?

Yeah that's my preferred loadout. 1 for variety, 2 for the shear consistency of the dakka tanks. My local mates are all for the Burstas, but I swear game from game it's the dakka ones that pull their weight every shooting phase. Though in recent games I kept fluffing their melee with abysmal hit rates. Part of me is thinking about trying out the evil sunz versions, with VITS for that sweet accuracy buff, even though I adore the AP buff that all three can share if I need to focus fire on one target unit.

cody.d. wrote:
Yeah that's my preferred loadout. 1 for variety, 2 for the shear consistency of the dakka tanks. My local mates are all for the Burstas, but I swear game from game it's the dakka ones that pull their weight every shooting phase. Though in recent games I kept fluffing their melee with abysmal hit rates. Part of me is thinking about trying out the evil sunz versions, with VITS for that sweet accuracy buff, even though I adore the AP buff that all three can share if I need to focus fire on one target unit.

30 shots is something that helps a lot IMO for getting consistency versus the swingy nature of a 3D6 blast weapon. It also doesn't help that often times the higher strength and AP is made redundant from stuff that has invulns or strats like Transhuman. The flat 3 damage is useful with the proliferation of terminators and bladeguard though. I'm hoping that once our new codex releases there might be some tank strats in general or some kind of armoured krumpany kultur that can give them more of a boost.

Oh yeah, sadly the only thing holding the killtanks back is they don't have a massive number of interactions with the rest of the codex.

Deffskulls gives a weak invul and a few re-rolls along with mechanical seizures. There is also the Wreckers stratagem, for re-rolls to wound which could be fun.

Evil Sunz makes them a tiny bit faster and if you wanna deepstrike and charge it makes that more reliable. VITS is probably one of the better buffs available but it is tricky to get off and is one tank only. Maaaaybe toss in the redder armour for some more mortals?

Bad Moonz gives some passive re-rolls and you can use their spell to buff their armour.

Blood axe could be fun with full fallback shoot and charge as well as a little extra armour outside of 18"

Besides that there's more dakka and ramming speed that can affect vehicles right?

On the plus side, the kill tanks are pretty autonomous at least.

How would you compare the Killtank to Gorkanaut?

 Scactha wrote:
How would you compare the Killtank to Gorkanaut?

I have tried listst with both triple kill tank and lists with a single gorka lately, and find it hilarious that the gorka is more expensive in points. Because it is a lot worse.

Yes a Gorka doesn't cost you tons of CP unlike a dakka killtank or a kill tank trio (and yes, for me you need to commit to 3 or none because you can't afford to lose the klan traits, unless you go for the evil sunz option which really only shines with the psychic spell).

And Yes, a Gorka is better in CC, but when you look at the rest of the stats and special rules, you certainly see how the power has crept, between the time the ork codex was released and when the FW book was released.

By the 9th ed codex standards, our kill tanks barely meet the competitive benchmark. Gorkanauts fall waaaaaaay below it, IMHO.

Given how cheap the killtank im expecting a major change to both gorkanauts and morkanauts. Whether its them becoming more expensive and much better, or simply cheaper i dont know.


But i do expect change. Large ones for those 2.

Furthermore, i expect either a change to the KFFs in general, or stompas, Garg Squiggoths and kustom Stompas should be put on bases somehow. Because it makes no sense that you would pay 500 points for a garg squig, or 800 points for a kustom stompa, only for them to not have an invul save. Who in their right mind would do that.

It already makes no sense that they are so expensive as you would have to pay 60 points extra for the KFF big mek, and then put him inside just for the vehicle to receive the KFF effect.

I hope they go back to what it used to be, that it just has to be within 6 inches. Not wholly within.

You' re right, that there will be changes on Nauts and it will be the same with Dreads as well. This is the only speculation about the changes in the codex, we can be pretty sure (except the squig riders and snakebite arise).

We can be sure, because there is an evidence - new WALKER keyword in FW rules. So it' s obvious, there will be some strategems / spec. detachements focused od WALKERs. Maybe even Kans can get something.

And it makes sence from business purpose side of view - there is a couple of great models for a lot of bugs, that are pretty useless last couple of years. Giving them the cool rules creates big income with no extra cost on new models.

Plus - mostly the story with the new models is the same - GW comes with the new models and gakky rules to sell the cool models. In the same time they btw. improve the rules of something totaly different. Mostly old. And the new models became powerfull later, with some another book.

Wink wink buggies and codex, I speak about you! Codex pimped up Smashguns and created a Loota bomb etc. Buggies are good now, with the PA rules.

I think, if man want to predict the future, he needs to think about the cashflow. This gives the results. Thinking about what doesn ' t work, what is week....pffff it never worked like this.

Well I just got demoralized by a 20 deathwing termie list. The slow rollout of codexes is killing 9th edition. Now with admech delayed, we probably won’t get ours until july at best? Not to mention everything will be sold out for at least 3 months after that. Honestly makes me want to quit again. Maybe crusade will breathe some life back into the game for me.

tbh im still surprised the killtank hasnt spiked by 75-100pts at least.
The profile alone feels nuts for its cost, even if its damage output is somewhat "meh" for a LoW (not bad, but not LoW-feeling)

BDBurrow wrote:
Well I just got demoralized by a 20 deathwing termie list. The slow rollout of codexes is killing 9th edition. Now with admech delayed, we probably won’t get ours until july at best? Not to mention everything will be sold out for at least 3 months after that. Honestly makes me want to quit again. Maybe crusade will breathe some life back into the game for me.

With 8th edition I had really hoped that GW would stop doing the old codex creep and release new indexes for each army with every new edition. Writing and releasing the codexes one at a time takes too long, and the game developers have never been able to avoid the power creep, and it is bad for the game that older armies feel outdated.

Some new units. Hard to decode wtf is it. Skarboyz equivalent?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/04/19/what-do-you-mean-not-all-beast-snaggas-ride-squigs/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=40K&utm_content=40korks19042021&fbclid=IwAR08ALWWytVRKG0TxxUCAUTimR7PAr6T08t5uCpoe8BFFUWjJD4iMS_K8O4

 Da Dread Freeboota Robert wrote:
Oye ya Gitz!

I’ve been thinking about our new codex and the pending changes. I love Flash Gitz but fully recognize that they are not competitive and I think that is largely due to their points cost, although they struggle to differentiate themselves from pure shooty units i.e. Lootas and Mek Guns or pure choppy units, Mega Nobz, Nobz, Boyz etc...So with the new codex coming in (Orktober?) here are my thoughts on what could be around the corner.

1. Points cost reduced from 32 to 25 (15pts Nob + 10pts Snazzgun). They were 27 at the end of 8th before strangely going back to 32. Honestly at 27 they were probably still too high. 25 seems about right. I think an argument could be made for staying at the higher cost if Gun Crazy Show-offs changed to a 5+

2. The snazzgun Is essentially and orky heavy bolter. With heavy bolters getting a boost that means the relative uniqueness and value of the snazzgun has decreased(more or less). I think we are anticipating some change to the big Shoota(extra shot, AP, and maybe damage) making the Snazzgun redundant. This offers some opportunity to distinguish Gitz from other entries. I think we could see a change in the Snazzgun profile from Heavy to Assault. This would allow for them to close distance and krump; otherwise what is that nob profile for? I doubt we will see a number of shots or damage increase, unless GW goes ape and makes the snazzgun more like plasma or essentially makes Snazzguns assault Deffgunz.

3. The Kaptain gets a power stabba/big Choppa default.

4. They move to the Elites slot.

5. They get “Keepin’ Order” (Or whatever the new version is)

I think the intent of the the unit is to be an all round shooty choppy mercenaries, however in its current iteration it fails to do either well.
Thoughts?

To put it bluntly, Flashgitz suck. They are too expensive as a shooting unit, and have no purpose being in CC with their Nob statline which just leaves them in a bad position where they need a vehicle to get them into range AND to protect them from getting blasted off the board. If they ever get into range without having to move they do some decent dmg but it takes a fair amount of luck and skill to pull that little trick off. They also are sitting at the unfortunate milestone of S6. Which is literally no different to S5 weapons 90% of the time, the only place it really matters is against gravis armor guys who are T5. I don't see all that many T6 targets roaming the fields that I want Flashgitz shooting at. Here is the crazy thing, For 130pts a SM player can take a 4 Heavy Bolter devestator squad which against Gravis armor does 12 shots, 8 hits, 4 wounds and 4 dmg. Flashgitz (assuming they moved) do 12 shots at BS5 for 4.6 hits 3.1 wounds and 2 failed armor saves for 4 dmg the kaptain gets 3 shots at BS4 for 1.75 hits, 1.16 wounds and 0.77 failed saves which averages 1.54dmg a turn.

Shorter range, less armor, no inherent easy buffs (reroll hits/wounds) etc.

You basically have 4 choices.

1: Make flashgitz cheaper so that losing them doesn't seem like a massive loss nor is it a huge deal to bring several squads to a battle.
2: Make them more shooty so that you feel justified in bringing them, even if they only ever get 1-2 shooting phases.
3: Give Flashgitz more durability for their current price. Either give them 3+ armor and a minor price drop OR give them 3+ armor AND +1 wounds and don't adjust price.
4: Increase range of Flashgitz from 24 to 36, this makes them more likely to be in range of something turn 1 so they don't have to move and drop to BS5. Keep in mind this will directly impact Lootas which will then be sharing a similar role to Flashgitz.

Personally, I think the best solution would be to drop the price of Nobz AND of snazz gunz. Something you should really keep in mind is that Nobz are currently garbage and are 17ppm. I think boyz are over priced as well, but generally speaking a Nob shouldn't be MORE than double the price of a Boy. If boyz go to 7 (Which they should) than a Nob should be 13-14pts at the absolute most. But even at the current price point of 17, a Flashgit is 32, which means that the Snazz gun is apparently worth 15pts. A SM with a Plasma gun is 28pts. So why the hell is a flashgit 32? Same # of wounds, worse armor save and only +1 attack and S now that Marines got all their special rules. Not to even mention all the inherent buffs SM's currently have easy access to.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tomsug wrote:
Some new units. Hard to decode wtf is it. Skarboyz equivalent?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/04/19/what-do-you-mean-not-all-beast-snaggas-ride-squigs/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=40K&utm_content=40korks19042021&fbclid=IwAR08ALWWytVRKG0TxxUCAUTimR7PAr6T08t5uCpoe8BFFUWjJD4iMS_K8O4

Looks like they want S5 boyz to be a norm across all factions. So instead of getting back our 4+ armor save Eavy armor boyz we are getting S5 CC oriented boyz which unless I am very much mistaken will be 10ppm because...reasons?

Yea S5 and maybe even meaner choppas. But still 1W and probably still 6+ save, though I can see them doing a 5+.

Sounds like Skarboyz for everyone indeed. Tough would mean a 6 fnp rather than inv to me looking at e.g. Wracks. Cost...9-10?

This expansion into a Snakebite Klan unit make happy as they’re my 2nd fav after BA. Now if they remake Cyboars...

Primaris Orkmarines.

the text say they are larger and stronger than normal Orks but not as duable as Nobz. so it could mean that maybe Nobz are getting tougher with better toughness or 1 more wound, where as these guys will be 2 wounds and str 5? Or maybe just 1 wound still and str 5.

Who knows. I kinda get the vibes that Nobz will be a proper elite unit though

Told ya, we arent getting new boyz were getting "Tuff Boyz" which is between boyz and nobz.

In other words, our "Primaris Orks" treatment.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Told ya, we arent getting new boyz were getting "Tuff Boyz" which is between boyz and nobz.

In other words, our "Primaris Orks" treatment.

Yeah.

Good way how to make us buy another 120 models

.

 Tomsug wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Told ya, we arent getting new boyz were getting "Tuff Boyz" which is between boyz and nobz.

In other words, our "Primaris Orks" treatment.

Yeah.

Good way how to make us buy another 120 models

Tis why personally since i dont play tournaments and thus dont care about this sort of thing, i only buy models now that are either difficult to print or the actual sculpt is so good i dont want any printed alternatives.
Boyz do not fall under that category, i have tons and tons of Geargutz infantry to pick from.

I have ~12k of GW orks as it is. Im not buying more, unless like i said another really sweet model comes out (obviously i bought ghaz)

I know that people say that Grot Mega tanks are bad but they did feature in a winning list on Mad Dok Seths lists. And i cant help but feeling that they arent as bad as i might think they are.


They are able to hold 7 scorchas for relatively small amounts of points. Sure 8 inches and all, but that might get increased to 12" when we get the codex.
I absolutely want to throw 7D6 auto hits with str 5 and -1AP just because i can one day. Whether its good or not be damned!


The Mega Tanks seem very versatile in general.

Beardedragon wrote:

They are able to hold 7 scorchas for relatively small amounts of points. Sure 8 inches and all, but that might get increased to 12" when we get the codex.
I absolutely want to throw 7D6 auto hits with str 5 and -1AP just because i can one day. Whether its good or not be damned!

I would have said: put a bunch of combi-skorcha nobs in a Chinork and have your fun.... But our Chinork has been scrapped alas. That setup was amazing fun however.

 Singleton Mosby wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:

They are able to hold 7 scorchas for relatively small amounts of points. Sure 8 inches and all, but that might get increased to 12" when we get the codex.
I absolutely want to throw 7D6 auto hits with str 5 and -1AP just because i can one day. Whether its good or not be damned!

I would have said: put a bunch of combi-skorcha nobs in a Chinork and have your fun.... But our Chinork has been scrapped alas. That setup was amazing fun however.

A Chinork was the first unit i ever kit bashed... It was finished just before the change was made.. I was so effing sad. I intended to deepstrike the unit down with tankbustas and just let my tankbustas rip on the enemy tanks.

Beardedragon wrote:
Given how cheap the killtank im expecting a major change to both gorkanauts and morkanauts. Whether its them becoming more expensive and much better, or simply cheaper i dont know.


But i do expect change. Large ones for those 2.

Furthermore, i expect either a change to the KFFs in general, or stompas, Garg Squiggoths and kustom Stompas should be put on bases somehow. Because it makes no sense that you would pay 500 points for a garg squig, or 800 points for a kustom stompa, only for them to not have an invul save. Who in their right mind would do that.

It already makes no sense that they are so expensive as you would have to pay 60 points extra for the KFF big mek, and then put him inside just for the vehicle to receive the KFF effect.

I hope they go back to what it used to be, that it just has to be within 6 inches. Not wholly within.

On the naut front. I think it's safe to say the crush profile on the claw will become 3+d3 damage at the very least. Which will help it krump heavy stuff, plus any big shoota changes will buff it's shooting by a touch, as will any improvements to the Klans. Hoooopefully GW keeps the Kustom Jobs mechanic, maybe loosen up the restrictions a bit? Like rather than one job per unit have a couple jobs that affect several units. (I know a few do but most are restricted or only practical on one or two at best)

i doubt they'd remove the kustomjobz but they might shift them to a points thing since we've been seeing that pop up now.
Lets face it, theyre not all equal, and on a scale of 1-3 where 1 is cheap and 3 is SUPER DUPER EXPENSIVE its kinda impossible to balance them properly.

Even among the ones we do use, some of them dont feel like they should cost a cp compared to others. Sparkly Bitz for example is outright nuts as opposed to the Scrapjet's attack twice one.

Quite frankly i hope they DO do that, and of course remove any limitations outside "no more than 1 kustom job per vehicle" and the obvious points costs. Ork vehicles are super flavorful with a mass array of random abilities they can slap on things. I'm not a fan of the specific ones but i doubt they'd remove them (rather generic ones that could go on several vehicles). Ones that are specific feel like a cheap band aid and should just be buil tin.

Honestly I hope these new tuff boyz are different then Skar boys as that’s just lazy rules writing.

I’m hoping these new tuff boyz are an elite choice and limited to 10-20 in a unit. Without the green tide rule or or green tide strat this will limit these new boyz to trukks or battle wagon boyz.

To put it simply I don’t see a place for these tuff boyz unless they make changes to nobs as well.. nobs should be 7ld and cost 15pts a model.

Boyz are okay at 8ppm.. mainly because of skar boy strat and green tide strat.

The new tuff boyz should be boyz w str 5 and 2 atks and 10ppm elite choice and 10-20x models in a unit.

The difference with them and a nob is nobs have 2 wounds ld7 4+ armor and access to big choppas and power klaws And I mean all nobs should have that stat line including nobs in boyz units.

And ffs Gretchin need to be added to clan rules or have Grot shields auto included in thier profile or both if they are going to stay at 5ppm.

The above design would still make skar boyz a useful strategem that isn’t just a way to save a few points but a way to make boyz in the troop slot into essentially these new boyz with access to green tide strat.

 Vineheart01 wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Told ya, we arent getting new boyz were getting "Tuff Boyz" which is between boyz and nobz.

In other words, our "Primaris Orks" treatment.

Yeah.

Good way how to make us buy another 120 models

Tis why personally since i dont play tournaments and thus dont care about this sort of thing, i only buy models now that are either difficult to print or the actual sculpt is so good i dont want any printed alternatives.
Boyz do not fall under that category, i have tons and tons of Geargutz infantry to pick from.

I have ~12k of GW orks as it is. Im not buying more, unless like i said another really sweet model comes out (obviously i bought ghaz)

Geargutz you say... I'll keep that in mind I've seen a lot of his work on FB.

To be honest, and a bit pessimistic, I think in all likleyhood these will just be boyz with an extra attack, a pip of AP and some sort of re-roll against larger targets. If we're lucky it'll be anything over 4 wounds like in AOS, if not it'll just be things with the monster keyword, making it borderline useless except in the most niche of scenarios (IE against nids)

cody.d. wrote:
To be honest, and a bit pessimistic, I think in all likleyhood these will just be boyz with an extra attack, a pip of AP and some sort of re-roll against larger targets. If we're lucky it'll be anything over 4 wounds like in AOS, if not it'll just be things with the monster keyword, making it borderline useless except in the most niche of scenarios (IE against nids)

That would be completely useless since boyz already gain an extra atk over 20+ models and have the skar boyz and green tide strat (which these tuff boyz won’t). But I agree I’m leaning more pessimistic since it will take a lot of work to give these new orks a viable role... they will need to be undercosted in order to be viable in our codex when boyz are already considering one of our better units and have several strats dedicated just to boyz to make them better.

There really isn’t a lot of room between boyz and nobs to make tuff boyz balanced.

Still damn curious how long till we start seeing the datasheets or hints at the rules. Come on GW, quit with the teasing!

im just assuming theyre getting the current nob statline and nobs are getting boosted.
Probably not the 4+ armor though since the model we see just has a shoulderpad, so nob w/ a 6+ save and probably doesnt goto 30 models either.

I hope they arent elites. I want more troops for one thing but also i really want dreads/kanz to goto elites and that would suddenly make it highly contested.

I too prefer troops but that will be hard to balance correctly.

To be fair troops and elites are orks 2 most under used slots....
I’m assuming the new squig boy riders are fast atk slot (which is our most crowded slot) but it makes the most sense with warbikers etc in this slot.

While I can't be mad for the cool new model, I really hate that I was right about all the numbskulls whining for replacing perfectly fine plastic models.

So it's really just a matter of whether my 200 boyz are getting worthless on codex release or after they have been buffed to heavens because no one bought them.

cody.d. wrote:
Still damn curious how long till we start seeing the datasheets or hints at the rules. Come on GW, quit with the teasing!

"We’ll be back in two weeks with another bit of reconnaissance."

Can´t we get some Kommandos on this to speed it up? I´m happy with most suggestions on these Tuff Boyz here, as 9th is much about boots on the ground.

 Scactha wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
Still damn curious how long till we start seeing the datasheets or hints at the rules. Come on GW, quit with the teasing!

"We’ll be back in two weeks with another bit of reconnaissance."

Can´t we get some Kommandos on this to speed it up? I´m happy with most suggestions on these Tuff here as 9th is much about boots on the ground.

On the plus side, gives us something to look forward to huh? Maybe it'll be one of the characters or even the big chariot thign that'll get shown off. Oooh, that warboss. Though a datasheet or new weapon would be fun to see.

GW said they're not as durable as nobz, so still T4 1W and maybe 5+ save. I don't think that more killy boyz would be particularly appealing, at least they aren't to me. Maybe 2W T4 if nobz gain and extra wound and/or point of toughness value, but I doubt it.

An equivalent to 3rd edition "cyborks" could have been nice instead. Something like 1W T5 and 5++ or 5+++.

I honestly think that nobs are going to go to T5 W2, and these Tuff boys will be either T5 W1 or T4 W2. At the moment there's too little room between boys and nobs for there to be a middle ground.

I'd expect a new nob kit or equivalent release as well then, as these snaggas will probably dwarf the current ones.

I found this on reddit:



Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/orks/comments/muk4gw/beast_snagga_boy_size_comparison/

 BertBert wrote:
I'd expect a new nob kit or equivalent release as well then, as these snaggas will probably dwarf the current ones.

I personally doubt it given how new the Nob kit is as far as design goes and how it has all the weapon options needed for the unit as well. They can definitely squeeze out some more money out of the Nobz kit before they replace it IMO.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:
While I can't be mad for the cool new model, I really hate that I was right about all the numbskulls whining for replacing perfectly fine plastic models.

So it's really just a matter of whether my 200 boyz are getting worthless on codex release or after they have been buffed to heavens because no one bought them.

Given how they botched the majority of baseline primaris rules-wise the first they time they showcased them, history points to after.

 Afrodactyl wrote:
I honestly think that nobs are going to go to T5 W2, and these Tuff boys will be either T5 W1 or T4 W2. At the moment there's too little room between boys and nobs for there to be a middle ground.

Exactly. I'm wondering if we're going to get a large stats shake up. Maybe Boys going back down to Strength 3 just to fit these Nu-boys in.
These need to be able to be fielded in mobs above 10 or what's the point. I don't see it. If they're like Bonesplittaz they'll have 2 wounds each and be fairly solid. If they just, almost nobz with a unit cap of 10 then I'll pass and take nobz to open the options.
I guess there's speculation that they won't be able to ride in trukks or Battle wagons. If GW treats them as they do the Primaris Marines. Hope this isn't the case.

 warhead01 wrote:

 Afrodactyl wrote:
I honestly think that nobs are going to go to T5 W2, and these Tuff boys will be either T5 W1 or T4 W2. At the moment there's too little room between boys and nobs for there to be a middle ground.

Exactly. I'm wondering if we're going to get a large stats shake up. Maybe Boys going back down to Strength 3 just to fit these Nu-boys in.
These need to be able to be fielded in mobs above 10 or what's the point. I don't see it. If they're like Bonesplittaz they'll have 2 wounds each and be fairly solid. If they just, almost nobz with a unit cap of 10 then I'll pass and take nobz to open the options.
I guess there's speculation that they won't be able to ride in trukks or Battle wagons. If GW treats them as they do the Primaris Marines. Hope this isn't the case.

That would really suck if Boyz went back to S3, since that was one of the things I liked about the transition over to 8th was not having to worry about relying on the charge to wound marines properly. If they do go the 2W route, I feel like the max unit number will be 20. Unfortunately, given the parallels to primaris and Snagga Boyz seemingly scoffing at modern Ork tech would mean I wouldn't put it past GW for them to only be transported by a new squig chariot or something.

 Grimskul wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:

 Afrodactyl wrote:
I honestly think that nobs are going to go to T5 W2, and these Tuff boys will be either T5 W1 or T4 W2. At the moment there's too little room between boys and nobs for there to be a middle ground.

Exactly. I'm wondering if we're going to get a large stats shake up. Maybe Boys going back down to Strength 3 just to fit these Nu-boys in.
These need to be able to be fielded in mobs above 10 or what's the point. I don't see it. If they're like Bonesplittaz they'll have 2 wounds each and be fairly solid. If they just, almost nobz with a unit cap of 10 then I'll pass and take nobz to open the options.
I guess there's speculation that they won't be able to ride in trukks or Battle wagons. If GW treats them as they do the Primaris Marines. Hope this isn't the case.

That would really suck if Boyz went back to S3, since that was one of the things I liked about the transition over to 8th was not having to worry about relying on the charge to wound marines properly. If they do go the 2W route, I feel like the max unit number will be 20. Unfortunately, given the parallels to primaris and Snagga Boyz seemingly scoffing at modern Ork tech would mean I wouldn't put it past GW for them to only be transported by a new squig chariot or something.

I agree, I like ST 4 boys a lot as well. It could happen though and be mostly meaningless if Orks get more special rules, like a +1 to wound roll when charging against say Infantry.
And Keep the Skarboys strat like it is now for 1 cp. GW likes buffs now so I could see a situation much like the SM's with more reroll AoE. Or like the "beloved" Mek shop, the Dok get's the boys all jumpped up on Mtn Dew likea buncha spider monkeys. It does become a fair bit of rules but I might think it opens Ork up for new builds. Granted it's a long way around to open up a slot between Boys and Nobs. If we're ready to give up on redundant efficiency for more flavor, some of which might be delightful, it could be good. I want less auto includes and more maybe, why nots from the codex.
to me 9th is all about fishing for 4's and 5's anyway so a ST3 Boy wouldn't bother me, just another reason to bring Shootas.

 Jidmah wrote:
I found this on reddit:

Spoiler:

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/orks/comments/muk4gw/beast_snagga_boy_size_comparison/

That looks like boy legs, arms and head bolted on to a nob torso. Not gonna lie I kind of hate it.

Skarboyz, if they remain, are absolutely going to be a "favored" type upgrade for points instead of CP. I can see them going away though, as Beast Snagga boyz are poised to fulfill the same role.

gungo wrote:
Honestly I hope these new tuff boyz are different then Skar boys as that’s just lazy rules writing.

gungo wrote:
The new tuff boyz should be boyz w str 5 and 2 atks and 10ppm elite choice and 10-20x models in a unit.

Str 5, 2 atks is Skarboyz...

Why would we want *more* Skarboyz in addition to Skarboyz? If you want more skarboyz, just add more skarboyz. I've never once been limited by the amount of troops slots that I have available to me.

 Afrodactyl wrote:

That looks like boy legs, arms and head bolted on to a nob torso. Not gonna lie I kind of hate it.

Me too.. but there was a photoshoped version on FB with the Nobz head, which is actually bigger and it looked much better.

Generaly, it' s a problem with the new design. It' s too polished, too “looks like” something... a lot of work to remodel it.

 Afrodactyl wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
I found this on reddit:

Spoiler:

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/orks/comments/muk4gw/beast_snagga_boy_size_comparison/

That looks like boy legs, arms and head bolted on to a nob torso. Not gonna lie I kind of hate it.

Like the nob from the boyz kit yeah? The torso always looked wrong. I've not used that body to make a nob since the nobz kit came out!

i'm guessing str5 base or the choppa weapon giving them +1str and -1ap, a 6+++
maybe, a +1 to wound against beast and monstrous creatures? 3 attacks base would be nice

honestly... hit as hard as nobs but not as durable is exactly what skarboyz are... but who knows? maybe they make trukks filled with boyz viable again... if they are gonna be a troop choice

cant see them keeping skarboyz when they got these snaggaz coming up... would be a bit redundant

BDBurrow wrote:

gungo wrote:
Honestly I hope these new tuff boyz are different then Skar boys as that’s just lazy rules writing.

gungo wrote:
The new tuff boyz should be boyz w str 5 and 2 atks and 10ppm elite choice and 10-20x models in a unit.

Str 5, 2 atks is Skarboyz...

Why would we want *more* Skarboyz in addition to Skarboyz? If you want more skarboyz, just add more skarboyz. I've never once been limited by the amount of troops slots that I have available to me.

Skar boyz are 8pts troop choice with objective secured and access to green tide strat and can be in a unit up to 30 furthermore thier base stats are str 5(w skar boy strat) 2 atk, (plus 1 for choppa and plus 1 for over 20 models).... oh and limited to goff only

Tuff boyz as I said should be 10pts elite choice no acess to green tide strat and should be in a unit to a max 20 with a base stats of str 5 and 2 atks (plus 1 for Choppa) while similar to skar boyz without greentide strat or objective secured and costing 10pts they are in fact not as good as skar boyz but are NOT limited to Goff.

Why would people take them? Because they are NOT 18ppm like nobs and would provide a similar threat as skar boyz for non goff armies especially if they make trukk boyz viable again. As I said before I don’t see how this unit fits in to orks we do not lack infantry choices, kommandos, burnas, boyz(including skar boyz), stormboyz, nobz, meganobs, (heck even warbikers) are all various forms of melee centric infantry units... adding squig riders and tuff boyz just convolutes these roles.

Boys are two attacks base.

I wrote it wrong... it’s fixed
My point was skar boyz are still much better then tuff boyz if done this way...
Skar boyz would have +1 atk over 20 models, objective secured and green tide strat... plus would be cheaper point cost...

My guess:

New Nob @ 14pts (+1)
S5
T4
W2
Sv6+
A3

New Boy @ 8pts (+0)
S4
T4
W1
Sv6+
A2

Snagga @10pts
S5
T4
W1
Sv6+
A3
*Special melee rule like +1 attack on charge.

That model is cringe, and the single shoulder pad makes me think junk save. So much for the theory that upright posture makes a better model.

The scars on the chest make me think they're rubbing it in on the t-shirt saves.

On the other hand, if it can actually make efficient use of a transport and fill a troops slot it might be what we ultimately need.

 Tomsug wrote:
Yeah october as I said. Sorry guys...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/04/18/our-pre-order-schedules-changing-a-bit-heres-how/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=WH&utm_campaign=Facebook&utm_term=WH-preorder-schedule-changes-APR18&fbclid=IwAR3W7adEXPHl_I6NvCu1E5NPpD3BrOUYPEoaq6rOxf_y1akHYbIBsLkzSc0

Sorry but with GW planning to have ork models out by july latest no way few weeks will result delay of july(latest, june more likely) to october.

Warehouses closed for start of may. 10.5 warehouses back on and it's back to normal. The GW is pretty confident they are getting new ork models out by july as latest(june more likely) seeing they released pictures already.

I disagree, AM will be out in the middle of May, and it looks clear that SoB wave 2 + codex is coming before Orks, and there's still a decent amount of stuff from their other games to account for as well. I think the absolute earliest is going to be August.

Madjob wrote:
I disagree, AM will be out in the middle of May, and it looks clear that SoB wave 2 + codex is coming before Orks, and there's still a decent amount of stuff from their other games to account for as well. I think the absolute earliest is going to be August.

I agree, and I would gladly settle for August. Yet at the same time, we can't be totally sure SoB is out before us, because that would mean: imperium (ad mech) and then imperium (SoB) back to back; with no xenos or chaos in between.
I mean without wanting to go into the whole "imperial bias, they get everything screw xenos players" discussion, I think we have a (very) small chance of squeezing past Sister Act 9th ed. I want to believe, but again, your schedule is sadly the most likely.

tneva82 wrote:


Sorry but with GW planning to have ork models out by july latest no way few weeks will result delay of july(latest, june more likely) to october.

Warehouses closed for start of may. 10.5 warehouses back on and it's back to normal. The GW is pretty confident they are getting new ork models out by july as latest(june more likely) seeing they released pictures already.

Sounds like a bet!

 Tomsug wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


Sorry but with GW planning to have ork models out by july latest no way few weeks will result delay of july(latest, june more likely) to october.

Warehouses closed for start of may. 10.5 warehouses back on and it's back to normal. The GW is pretty confident they are getting new ork models out by july as latest(june more likely) seeing they released pictures already.

Sounds like a bet!

You should bet a tooth. That is, if postal services authorize that sort of object and don’t seize the package. Loser sends a tooth to the winner, and takes a picture of himself missing a tooth

Reckon the Beastsnaggas will come with a named character? The big boss at the front with his grot shoulder gunner does look like he has the chops to fit the bill. And with the older ork characters being phased out we do need new ones to take their place.

cody.d. wrote:
Reckon the Beastsnaggas will come with a named character? The big boss at the front with his grot shoulder gunner does look like he has the chops to fit the bill. And with the older ork characters being phased out we do need new ones to take their place.

It's a tough call, but very possible. Orks already have had Ghazzy updated to plastic, so they could be adding in a character to help ground it in some kind of backstory. The increased rise of Beast Snaggas in Ork WAAAGH!'s or Klans could even be retconned as an Orkish response to the creation of the Great Rift.

i'd be surprised if its only beast snagga boyz and the squig riders we get.
There were a lot more on that mural we havnt seen yet. Also theres no way they havnt heard orks screaming for a proper warboss, so i'd be surprised if there isnt a beastsnagga boss kit.

 addnid wrote:

You should bet a tooth. That is, if postal services authorize that sort of object and don’t seize the package. Loser sends a tooth to the winner, and takes a picture of himself missing a tooth

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i'd be surprised if its only beast snagga boyz and the squig riders we get.
There were a lot more on that mural we havnt seen yet. Also theres no way they havnt heard orks screaming for a proper warboss, so i'd be surprised if there isnt a beastsnagga boss kit.

true. and the newest text showing up with the beastsnagga boy talked about beastsnagga special painboys as well. Which also showed up on the mural. Like a.. squig painboy thingy

Going by the mural, several individuals looked suspiciously like they'd been traced/referenced from a specific model rather than just drawn off the cuff.

The Warboss was definitely one of them, as was the dok (and we've now had a reference to them in the snagga boy article), the large squig-pulled wagon, and the 2-legged squig rider. So I predict the wave to look something like this:

1. Squighog Boyz
2. Beast Snagga Boyz
3. Squig War Wagon
4. Snagga Pig Dok
5. Squig Bounda Boyz (?)
6. Beast Snagga Boss

There were 2 bosses on that mural that were clearly different but not different enough to be separate kits. And armored, heavily armored, but not sure if quite MegaArmor level (3+? baked in invul? i'd rather that than a 2+ personally)

 Vineheart01 wrote:
There were 2 bosses on that mural that were clearly different but not different enough to be separate kits. And armored, heavily armored, but not sure if quite MegaArmor level (3+? baked in invul? i'd rather that than a 2+ personally)

Don't get me wrong, I'd love for a real MA boss model, but when I said that certain ones looked referenced from a model, I wasn't including that one. It's a really vague picture, feels like it was drawn from a general idea of what a Warboss in mega armor looks like without using an actual model as reference. I think it was only in the trailer to serve as a contrast to the Snagga boss that appears later on.

I think it's optimistic to expect a MA boss model in this wave but I am happy to be wrong.

I'm thinking that realistically we could get a monopose Warboss kit, where the armor plates can either be salvaged scrap or hides from an armadillo-squig

 Bonde wrote:
I'm thinking that realistically we could get a monopose Warboss kit, where the armor plates can either be salvaged scrap or hides from an armadillo-squig

Possibly, since the Beastie Boss and normal Boss they showed look like they could potentially use the same parts. Similar arms down and wide pose, same shoulder gun (except grot gunner vs squig gunner), and the Beastie Boss has some armor pieces missing with trophies. Theres also the odd looking Mega Nob with the Choppa, but that could be just an artistic misinterpretation (since most Termies have swords/axes, maybe the artist thought MANz did too).

More likely is that they will finally repackaging Grukk as the standard Warboss though. He's been the generic Boss in every photo since 8th launched (even reused as Gitzog Wurldkilla), and I wish they would just pull that Band-Aid off and get the ensuing whining over with. My bet is whatever the upcoming Combat Patrol is, it's going to either have Grukk as a generic Warboss or a Shokk Attack Big Mek as the HQ.

The narrative play only rules for grukk are actually decent..
As were goff rockers...
The named nobs were okay too I guess.
Doubtful any of that goes into the new codex.
I think we have enough previewed models for a fairly decent shakeup.

Ork lists placed on the front places over this weekend on various tournaments. I put there one of the lists. It' s pretty much a typical example of actual trend I see around. It' s heavy VP focused with tons of small units ready to score something with SMG in the back.

6x10boyz squads, 2 kommandos, 2 deffkoptas, 3 weirdboyz, burnabommer and dakka is hidden in motowarboss, one 3deffdreads squad with sparkli bitz, 6 SMG in grot detachement and Full tankbusta bomb. In fact, no hard targets, no heavy CC units except the warboss.

Jim Orr, 1st on Game Nite