Crazyterran wrote:
Sitting here as an UM player, which hasn’t even got its jump or terminator unit yet, nor all it’s characters, listening to other people complain about their legion options...

(Got Guilliman and the Invictarii and that’s it - no unique Contemptor, no Leviathan(fair though, wasn’t out yet) and our alternative head options got taken away)

I found a simple headswap conversion for the HH FW Guilliman that turns him into something reminiscent of the Planet Hulk gladiator just this weekend and I decided (ironically given your post above a day later) to investigate the FW UM HH options. Seeing that tiny selection was admittedly a surprise for me... and I'm not even an UM player (although I do bastardize some of your chapter/legion's figs admittedly for my own).

alexkon3 wrote:
Man I'm still salty about the White Scars... they are such a unique Legion with a super distinct aesthetic. I was looking so much forward to them being one of my fav legions since "Scars" and... they look more vanilla then the fracking Ultramarines. A Tartaros pattern Termi unit which just has Glaives and nothing more and the golden Keshig who are just normal bikers with lances... wow how amazing. They couldn't even give them the Bullock patern from the books?

I don't know if I agree - I kind of like their no-nonsense attitude and keeping the armor utilitarian instead of festooning it with junk. I also feel you're a bit unfair to Termies, not only chest and leg decoration is plenty characterful, the belt armor plates are among the nicest unique details in the whole FW range.

As for Bullocks, I don't see the problem. GW Dawneagle Jetbikes look very similar, all you need to do is replacing the torso of the Custode with Scar one (you can even keep arms and legs, WS art has plenty of SM with leather gloves/boots) and presto, you have Bullocks for half the price of FW junk...

 Crazyterran wrote:
Sitting here as an UM player, which hasn’t even got its jump or terminator unit yet, nor all it’s characters, listening to other people complain about their legion options...

To be perfectly fair, while FW did indeed peed all over Ultramarine range, you at least have rules for them, and 'roman-ish' bits are easy to come by (if only from multiple plastic upgrade sprues GW sells). If anything, Blood Angels have it even worse because they already have 3 kits that are supposed to be HH era relics, very cheap ones at that compared to FW resin, representing their most important units/characters from the books, yet they continuously get middle finger by not getting any rules for them so they could actually be used. Sure, I suppose you can field them as generic units, but it's like FW pretended 'Armless and Justaerin didn't exist or played any role in HH and told you to use generic praetor and termies just to deny GW sales...

 warboss wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Sitting here as an UM player, which hasn’t even got its jump or terminator unit yet, nor all it’s characters, listening to other people complain about their legion options...

(Got Guilliman and the Invictarii and that’s it - no unique Contemptor, no Leviathan(fair though, wasn’t out yet) and our alternative head options got taken away)

I found a simple headswap conversion for the HH FW Guilliman that turns him into something reminiscent of the Planet Hulk gladiator just this weekend and I decided (ironically given your post above a day later) to investigate the FW UM HH options. Seeing that tiny selection was admittedly a surprise for me... and I'm not even an UM player (although I do bastardize some of your chapter/legion's figs admittedly for my own).

That just made that model 100% better. Clap emoticon .

Where's that head from? that's a marked improvement by far!

 nerdfest09 wrote:
Where's that head from? that's a marked improvement by far!

It's not a "Simple head swap" as he says, it's a moderately complex conversion using the Minotaur chaplain head (cut, plastic face stuck on, then built back up with putty).

JWBS wrote:

 nerdfest09 wrote:
Where's that head from? that's a marked improvement by far!

It's not a "Simple head swap" as he says, it's a moderately complex conversion using the Minotaur chaplain head (cut, plastic face stuck on, then built back up with putty).

Thanks dude, I'll give it a shot, that should be in my realm of skills.

Be prepared to splash some cash on the helmet. Its about 9 quid on egghead miniatures.

New GW job advert

https://jobs.games-workshop.com/search-and-apply/lead-content-writer-horus-heresy-nottingham-uk

Do you eat, sleep and breathe the Horus Heresy? Would writing and coordinating books and other written material based on Mankind’s galaxy-spanning civil war be your dream job?

If so, we are looking for an excellent communicator with a high standard of English and an in-depth knowledge of all-things Horus Heresy to not only write rules and background for our Horus Heresy game system, but also to take the lead in coordinating writing projects for the range. Having already had your work professionally published will be beneficial when applying for this role.

You will be a part of our in-house Horus Heresy Writing team based at our Nottingham HQ. As well as writing content for our books, you will coordinate writing projects from start to finish. This will include not just books but also content required for promotional purposes, packaging, events, etc, ensuring that the work is done to schedule and maintains our high-quality standards. You will also promote the Horus Heresy range at select events and on GW social media.

We know that enthusiastically delivering consistent, accurate and error-free products to deadline and being the go-to person for the team is what makes this job hard.

I guess they may have internal candidates in mind? but maybe nobody there wants to do it and are busy on other stuff like the specialist games

That... doesn't bode well. That sounds like, what, a half-dozen roles and probably best for 2-3 people? Seems like a really intense workload, and a fairly high level of expectation. Even if I were qualified, I wouldn't touch that job with a 10' pole.

 Theophony wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Sitting here as an UM player, which hasn’t even got its jump or terminator unit yet, nor all it’s characters, listening to other people complain about their legion options...

(Got Guilliman and the Invictarii and that’s it - no unique Contemptor, no Leviathan(fair though, wasn’t out yet) and our alternative head options got taken away)

I found a simple headswap conversion for the HH FW Guilliman that turns him into something reminiscent of the Planet Hulk gladiator just this weekend and I decided (ironically given your post above a day later) to investigate the FW UM HH options. Seeing that tiny selection was admittedly a surprise for me... and I'm not even an UM player (although I do bastardize some of your chapter/legion's figs admittedly for my own).

That just made that model 100% better. Clap emoticon .

This model is awful, he is probably the worse Gulliman I have ever seen ! It's crazy how a tiny part can have such an impact on a model.

I strongly prefer the FW version (stock or especially with the head swap above) to the gaudy, misshapen plastic one GW proper came out with.

It sounds like about a third of Alan Bligh's workload, which is probably why FW has been so slow to recover firefighting things with existing staff

a lot of whom will be being poached to do stuff for specialist games

 godardc wrote:

 Theophony wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Sitting here as an UM player, which hasn’t even got its jump or terminator unit yet, nor all it’s characters, listening to other people complain about their legion options...

(Got Guilliman and the Invictarii and that’s it - no unique Contemptor, no Leviathan(fair though, wasn’t out yet) and our alternative head options got taken away)

I found a simple headswap conversion for the HH FW Guilliman that turns him into something reminiscent of the Planet Hulk gladiator just this weekend and I decided (ironically given your post above a day later) to investigate the FW UM HH options. Seeing that tiny selection was admittedly a surprise for me... and I'm not even an UM player (although I do bastardize some of your chapter/legion's figs admittedly for my own).

That just made that model 100% better. Clap emoticon .

This model is awful, he is probably the worse Gulliman I have ever seen ! It's crazy how a tiny part can have such an impact on a model.

I think its a good idea, but to me Bobby G is less yelly, and practical enough to wear a helmet that actually has all the stuff Space Marine helmets have.

I think its well done, but not for me.

It's here.. https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NL/Mechanicum-Acastus-Knight-Asterius-2019



And a new bundle as well: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NL/Lords-of-War-Knight-Lance-2019

 BrookM wrote:
It's here..

Wow... there's an actual discount in that FW bundle. Nearly 10% if my math is right...

 xttz wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
It's here..

Wow... there's an actual discount in that FW bundle. Nearly 10% if my math is right...

FW are pretty good at offering bundles with an actual discount.

Every time I see the revised version, I really wish they'd just upped the size of the single "barrel" version rather than doubling it up. Looks derpy. The regular Acastus can pull off the twin barrels because of its big chonk shoulders.

That gun design is ugly as sin to begin with no matter how hard they try. Couple with the pivoting arm. Leviathan Dread have very cool gun design, maybe they should try upscale some of those gun if they ran out of idea.

Althought, Gameplay wise that gun would be a beast once it's in AT.

I love the look of this, now if only it was in plastic

The cbeams are a bit too big, looks silly.

That plus no 40k rules... eh.

Shame they didn't stick to the Porphyrion design and had the cannons directly clamped to the side. Would have looked much better

Huge, ugly and super expensive...

YMMV

Honestly as a long time knights player in 30k, I would NEVER field this unit.
Sure turn 1 you "May" get the 7in sunder ap1 templates however most of the time you are shooting 2 shots at 10/2 5in where as for 20 more points Porphyrion is putting out twice the shots at the same profile -wrecker which is basically useless.
And if you ever need to shoot just past your own toes you lose your ap2, the mortar is cool and all but the primary weapon profile makes this thing DOA for me, this seems more like a long range anti infantry platform.

That standing I wish the armour set was compatible with the normal Porphyrion.

As much as I would love to, this thing is just way too expensive money wise. I'd rather buy a new 1k pts Mortalis army for the same price. If not cheaper...

I'm obviously in a minority here, I quite like mine but I agree the arms should have been more like the Poly than the regular knights.

The rules work best on large tables played length ways, two 7" S10 AP1 shots for a couple of turns is going to hurt. While wrecker is very situational sunder for that 7" template is pretty amazing when combined with ordinance and twin linked, you should always be wounding whatever you hit and twice if you desire it. On the other hand the mortar is just not very good, 3 small blast templates doesn't really do much at AP4, always seems pointless having fleshbane and a AP coupled together as anything I actually want to wound for the rad-phage will have a 2+ or at worst a 3+. It needs a larger blast template to generate more wounds and have a greater chance of forcing a failed save.

Obviously on a smaller table, particularly playing width ways you are going to get one good turn in if you are lucky. I agree the Poly is better, but I think the Poly is still under costed in 30k. Every time I use mine in 30k it is the Knight of the game and not by a small margin.

Based on what we've seen for AT I'm expecting another couple of weapons options for the Acastus chassis, particularly interested in what the gravaton option will look like in 30k.

These don't seem like some good news, no? I mean, they must've already written some of the book 9, and now they are looking for a new lead. This could lead to more inconsistencies between 8-9-10.

Edit: lol, broken image links.

My first thought when I saw that picture was "a lead writer? But I thought they used resin?"

 CragHack wrote:
These don't seem like some good news, no? I mean, they must've already written some of the book 9, and now they are looking for a new lead. This could lead to more inconsistencies between 8-9-10.

Edit: lol, broken image links.

They could be just adding another. Or perhaps they are replacing one. Just have to make a good hire and they'd carry on okay.

HOWEVER...this is why l laugh when they talk about 20-something black books. It's *ludicrous* to think that's achievable given the amount of changes that will take place (staff, management, business plans, etc) over the 15(?) years it'll take to produce them. There's no way that they can't know that. Forge World as we know it might not exist in 3 years, let alone 15.

I could have sworn I saw a preview of a new white scars transfer sheet. Did I imagine that or is it coming?

Ammo-jack & Dome Runner and the Delaque upgrades (Weapons 1, Weapons 2 & Heads) up for pre-order.

Yikes, those guns are really out of proportion or badly angled or something

The Ammo-Jack is very cool.

Not sure if anyone else has noticed or posted elsewhere but the Macrocrid Explorator is on LCTB and the Achilles-alpha pattern Land Raider is no longer available on the US web store.



Edit:

Deathstorm drop pods with assault cannons too

Serious? Good grief it is. I really hope this is because they are repackaging them...

Worries me a bit that they aren't advertising it like before.

More stuff is being put on LCTB. A bunch of legion-specific rhino and land raider doors as well as the large and small zone mortalis blast doors.

Strange and worrying indeed that this stuff is being ghosted.

They seem to be getting rid of Traitor HH Era Mk2 rhino doors/front and one of the extra Space Wolf deimos doors.

EDIT: Also the Dreadstorm Drop Pod w/ Assault Cannons.

Really sad. A beautiful FW Mechanicum vehicle disappears just after GW give us that new, ugly piece of crap for their inferior Ad Mech range.

EDIT: The Macrocarid is now no longer available. I really hate Forge World sometimes.

I hope that was a mistake. The “no longer available” is just another bad communication thing they put on “temporary our of stock” products that tend to come back sooner or later. But I’m still panic buying myself a set of ZM doors as soon as their website goes back online. Provided they will be still available, hah.

Aaand, large doors are gonners. Crap :/

Kinda sad that they are quitting with these kits. Was going to buy a few of the Death Guard and Emperors Children kits when time and money allowed. Apparently that's not going to happen and I abhor the fact that recasts will be the only way for many players to finish their forces.

Honestly if FW at least had a MTO strategy to bring stuff back occasionally I'd understand, but the current strategy seems nuts.

(I'll grant you, I'd hope they'd bring it back in a more structured way than the GW one, but still, in principle.)

I really wish GW was more forward in communicating removals to us - rather than just doing it and letting us find out later or on the offchance we catch the website on the right day

 Overread wrote:
I really wish GW was more forward in communicating removals to us - rather than just doing it and letting us find out later or on the offchance we catch the website on the right day

... by which time most of it has already gone...

I suspect they only decide when a mould dies, and look at (recent) sales to decide if it makes sense to replace it

and if it turns out the master is knackered and needs repaired or worse replaced they will need better sales figures than if it's just the case of making a new mould

so by the time they know something is being removed it's already too late to advertise the fact in any major way because they'll only have whats in stock to sell

They should *at least* put up a separate, visible “last chance to buy” tab. The way we know that it’s going lctb - stumbling by accident - is just plain fething wrong.

that would be good (even a less obvious one like on the main GW website would be a start)

At this point they could just as well just put limited run numbers on these items instead of having this mystery method.

This also shows that they have no idea what to do with the Horus Heresy line. Currently it feels like a zombie that gets brains to eat a few times a week before more of it sloughs off as it shambles forth.

There is a chance they are trying to make the line more "bespoke". Currently we still have the Deimos faction doors, but that also means you have to buy specific Deimos Rhinos for your 30k force and can't use the standard 40k one unless you forego using faction specific doors.

I think the problem is GW isnt' even sure what to do with FW in general. Just look at the Fantasy/AoS line where they formed an AoS team and then disbanded them and their only product was 2 sets of alternative stormcast heads. In fact in the years since AoS launched I think the only thing they've released was those and the Khorne Dragon.
For a new flagship product line that was aimed at being for the models first, FW is really underwhelming when you consider almost everything they offer is years old for AoS.


HH is equally a bit adrift it seems, probably not helped by the sales being only driven by FW itself which is a niche within the market and then again so even more with the price hikes overseas where were very dramatic rises and likely killed off a lot of casual FW interest

edit - also for me its not just getting official notice that the models are going to vanish soon. It's GW just informing us clearly about what has left the store in general. Far better than leaving gamers in the dark and always feeling like you have to check the store often incase something vanishes without warning. .

I agree Overread. FW was also not helped by the passing of Alan Bligh. I wouldn't also be surprised if GW is somewhat pressuring FW to stick to the FW "specialist" games such as Blood Bowl, AT, and so on. Those are a bit more focused project currently and might be more profitable than the scattershot releases of HH or individual models for 40k or AoS.

 Eldarsif wrote:
I agree Overread. FW was also not helped by the passing of Alan Bligh. I wouldn't also be surprised if GW is somewhat pressuring FW to stick to the FW "specialist" games such as Blood Bowl, AT, and so on. Those are a bit more focused project currently and might be more profitable than the scattershot releases of HH or individual models for 40k or AoS.

I suspect the release of primeris has them in a knot, as much of forgeworlds kits now don't align with gw's main direction. Suddenly you can't proxy or import your space marines between games well.

Why then invest in heresy, from a corporate perspective? It's really just inertia at this point. Which is too bad as the solar aux and mechanicus ranges are superior to their 40k counterparts. The onager,hovercraft and kastellans don't fit the motif well.

I'd suspect there has been a lot of poaching of FW staff for GW & Specialist Games jobs during the expansions

so FW will be 'stuck' with a bunch of new hires and older senior staff who have moved away from GW as they no longer fitted in culturally. With most of the experienced but dynamic younger staff they'd have been expecting to push thing forward heading back to the new GW for more senior roles

It will be the usual office politics between the main design studio and FW. At the moment the main studio have been taking advantage of Alan's passing go feth FW over as badly as possible.

SeanDrake wrote:
It will be the usual office politics between the main design studio and FW. At the moment the main studio have been taking advantage of Alan's passing go feth FW over as badly as possible.

I remember them telling us that all the juvenile "social politics" stuff would be over once we left school. Why is it we lie so much to kids do you think?

SeanDrake wrote:
It will be the usual office politics between the main design studio and FW. At the moment the main studio have been taking advantage of Alan's passing go feth FW over as badly as possible.

I really don’t think it’s office politics. I think, as others have said, GW don’t know what to do with FW. Horus Heresy was a big success for several years but it’s taken a big hit. The untimely passing of Alan Bligh, 8th Edition and the release of Primaris have all caused HH to drop in popularity to the point where it looks like they can not justify keeping all of the models in production. So we’re at the point where it feels like the HH range is now shrinking despite it still getting (less frequent) new releases.

It is sad that GW hasn’t adopted at least the aesthetics of some of FW’s best designs. The Mechanicum range is beautiful, but GW went with something I personally find vastly inferior. Solar Auxilia are my favourite version of ordinary human troops, but GW chose not to support them with 40k rules and FW never finished the range to include all of the options in the rules.

SeanDrake wrote:
It will be the usual office politics between the main design studio and FW. At the moment the main studio have been taking advantage of Alan's passing go feth FW over as badly as possible.

A fair few of them were probably his friends. Your framing of this doesn't seem at all realistic tbh.

Plastic is fantastic but its not quite yet fully there next to resin. Resin still has bonuses in certain areas when it comes to what can be cast with it and find detailing. It might be that GW' central choices are in part dictated by the properties of the material not just the design aesthetic

I'll say I have to disagree a bit there. Resin, when properly done, has such a trivial advantage over modern plastics in detail...I think that ship has sailed. It was true back in 2000-2005 or so...when plastics were just starting to become "better". However, the minor advantage that resin has is lost if it's not perfectly cast or produced (and with FW it is seldom perfectly produced).

I think that used to be the selling point (and the excuse for the prices). Oh you only have a basic Space Marine tactical squad...look at all the cool unique and special Forgeworld things you could have!

Resin is easily the worse material to work with, paint, and game with. I don't the increasingly small "advantage" is remotely worth the hassle or the inflated costs. I think it's another one of FW's issues. Their older products are increasingly worse than current GW plastics. Their prices are still pretty insane, etc. They're also producing a game with a flat or shrinking player base (HH may be slightly profitable but there's no way it's anywhere near touching the scale of 40K which is still on a pretty meteoric rise). I think FW is in a bad place.

Resin can pack in some intensely fine and crisp detail, but, for GW's games, I'd say the biggest advantage is the low investment vs. plastic molds, and what that allows.

Well, I think most people going for HH armies tend to go all in - IE, People will buy the deimos door for their deimos rhinos as Deimos Rhinos are more era appropriate, and the Mk2 rhino doors probably didn't sell.

They kept the post-heresy/chaos doors available.

I've never seen a Deathstorm in person, so *shrug*

The Macaroid is a shame though, but with Admech from FW in perpetual limbo for 40k I doubt they sold many, as from what I've read most people who played Admech went for the fancy robots that couldn't go in a tank anyways.

 Yodhrin wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:
It will be the usual office politics between the main design studio and FW. At the moment the main studio have been taking advantage of Alan's passing go feth FW over as badly as possible.

I remember them telling us that all the juvenile "social politics" stuff would be over once we left school. Why is it we lie so much to kids do you think?

No idea I would guess it’s to stop most people giving up before they start uni and forking over huge amounts of cash for no reason in most cases.

As for the people saying my comment sounds unreasonable -

1. Have you ever worked somewhere when 2 separate departments effectively have to compete for resources and 1 department has relative autonomy and they other has to toe the company line 100% to the detriment of the product.

2. In one of the memorial pieces I read about Alan I believe written by ADB he literally states that above and beyond being a walking encyclopaedia of HH lore and a gifted designer his main gift that benefited FW was his unnatural ability to navigate bull gak office politics.

3. It may be better now but the design studio management despised FW from its creation due to there about to actual work mostly unimpeded by crap from higher management. It did not help that AoS tanked so badly at launch that FW sales were higher some months, this peaked when Calth was released and outsold the AoS starter by about 9 to 1 effectively saving the companies financials from ruin allaowing Alan to swing more plastic slots. I head it may have impacted some people’s bonuses and that they have retained a raging hate boner to this day about screwing FW.

4. This is England where repressed middle management effectively live there miserable lives to spread there misery onto as many other people as possible (see Kirby’s little Red Book)

Stuff like the assault cannon drop pod stops selling because they haven't done anything with it for years. Periodically the older stuff in the catalogue needs something to push it back to prominence. How many people are going to find and decide that they want one if it sits there buried in the webstore somewhere?

 sockwithaticket wrote:
Stuff like the assault cannon drop pod stops selling because they haven't done anything with it for years. Periodically the older stuff in the catalogue needs something to push it back to prominence. How many people are going to find and decide that they want one if it sits there buried in the webstore somewhere?

Esp when that half of the company doesn't get as much massive scale marketing- though its a lot better now than it was. Then again there are some subtle oddities such as most of the exalted greater demons being worse than their counterparts

 Yodhrin wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:
It will be the usual office politics between the main design studio and FW. At the moment the main studio have been taking advantage of Alan's passing go feth FW over as badly as possible.

I remember them telling us that all the juvenile "social politics" stuff would be over once we left school. Why is it we lie so much to kids do you think?

Because then you won’t want to be an obedient office/shop drone. You might even start doing something really dangerous, like thinking.

 Crazyterran wrote:
Well, I think most people going for HH armies tend to go all in - IE, People will buy the deimos door for their deimos rhinos as Deimos Rhinos are more era appropriate, and the Mk2 rhino doors probably didn't sell.

They kept the post-heresy/chaos doors available.

I've never seen a Deathstorm in person, so *shrug*

The Macaroid is a shame though, but with Admech from FW in perpetual limbo for 40k I doubt they sold many, as from what I've read most people who played Admech went for the fancy robots that couldn't go in a tank anyways.

Oh I think we can safely say the Forgeworld Mechanicum models will not be getting 40k rules at this point. It's a real shame as I would have bought those tanks and transports in a heartbeat as they're the most unique and interesting vehicles they've ever produced.

Quasistellar wrote:

Oh I think we can safely say the Forgeworld Mechanicum models will not be getting 40k rules at this point. It's a real shame as I would have bought those tanks and transports in a heartbeat as they're the most unique and interesting vehicles they've ever produced.

It is just pure insanity. Despite a lot of people demanding 40K rules for the Mechanicum stuff they have refused to release them. And when unsurprisingly the models do not sell as a result, they discontinue the models. FW is just completely pointless these days.

I'll echo the thoughts here. While the Flash Gordon stylings of the FW mechanicum stuff didn't appeal to me personally, I could at least recognize the artistry and style that went into the designs. The plastic 40k AdMech stuff is a poor imitation... it's the wargaming model equivalent of having a Shakespearean play google translated into another language and back again.

 Crimson wrote:

Quasistellar wrote:

Oh I think we can safely say the Forgeworld Mechanicum models will not be getting 40k rules at this point. It's a real shame as I would have bought those tanks and transports in a heartbeat as they're the most unique and interesting vehicles they've ever produced.

It is just pure insanity. Despite a lot of people demanding 40K rules for the Mechanicum stuff they have refused to release them. And when unsurprisingly the models do not sell as a result, they discontinue the models. FW is just completely pointless these days.

Why so surprised? r&h f.e. Were an upgrade sprue horde army.
That alone made them rather unatractive. Add to that the gak that Calls itself index for 8th and you can easily see why the numbers don't add up for them. And their solution? Curb the cost cut the line. The underlying problem of the line E.g. Terribad rules are not regarded as a problem.

Also it's a general gw problem, take SoB, horribly outdated and often metal, got completly neglected.
But a lot of times the real reason they didn't sell had to do with their rules beeing outdated beyond belief.

 Crimson wrote:

Quasistellar wrote:

Oh I think we can safely say the Forgeworld Mechanicum models will not be getting 40k rules at this point. It's a real shame as I would have bought those tanks and transports in a heartbeat as they're the most unique and interesting vehicles they've ever produced.

It is just pure insanity. Despite a lot of people demanding 40K rules for the Mechanicum stuff they have refused to release them. And when unsurprisingly the models do not sell as a result, they discontinue the models. FW is just completely pointless these days.

My understanding is that 40K rules are handled by the GW studio now, not FW. Probably because that way they can go through regular playtesting channels. FW AM stuff was undoubtedly way down the list of priorities. And sure, one of the reasons is because the models are resin and not plastic. They should always be pushing plastic to keep those machines busy.

These unrelease issues have been crap for some years now...
This is period.

How doable is Mechanicum as a counts as Adeptus Mech army?

I definitely agree the models are much better.

Chapter Master Raldoron of the Blood Angels now available for preorder at Forgeworld

A caucasian B.A. Barracus.

£47

It's a good looking normal marine relatively speaking. I'm a bit surprised that they didn't make the service studs blood drops instead.

Dude is pretty bland. Like, his torso armor looks pretty good, and his arms are a different pose, but the rest is just so meh... If I saw that models somewhere, I feel like I'd have just assumed it was an above-average kitbash with a little kneadatite work.

I just can’t look at normal marines now. Primaris have ruined them for me.

A very nice model but not £47 nice.

I really want to support them when they release new regular marines, but price points like that make it near impossible.

 zedmeister wrote:
£47

30K seems to have become a whale-hunting exercise on FW's part. Their stuff has always been very expensive, but $73 for a single marine with small scenic base seems...next level.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
I just can’t look at normal marines now. Primaris have ruined them for me.

Yeah, that's what I was hinting at above as well.

 zedmeister wrote:
£47

Is that all you're paying? £60 for my part of the world.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:
£47

Is that all you're paying? £60 for my part of the world.

Which is *almost exactly* the US price.

But we no longer need to be baffled by exchange rate calculations. So we have that going for us, which is nice.

$73 USD. For a Marine that has no abdomen

Quasistellar wrote:
$73 USD. For a Marine that has no abdomen

* slaps head Of space marine.

This bad boy can fit so many crimes against anatomy in it.!

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
I just can’t look at normal marines now. Primaris have ruined them for me.

Yeah. The old school marine proportions just look so off now. The bling looks over done as well.

What is that shoulder joint..?

Is that deliberate?

They try to hide the shoulder with the angle too. There's some subversive stuff on their site especially with older models. They don't mention that the bio titan's legs don't support it or the malcador's tracks don't fit. The krieg infantry don't even come with all the same arms pictured.

What's wrong with it?

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
What's wrong with it?

It’s far from the body because they have the strap from the bolter hanging off of it. It looks like there’s a space for a flat washer between the torso and shoulder pad. It makes the body really disjointed. They have the model at an angle to try and camouflage it.

 Theophony wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
What's wrong with it?

It’s far from the body because they have the strap from the bolter hanging off of it. It looks like there’s a space for a flat washer between the torso and shoulder pad. It makes the body really disjointed. They have the model at an angle to try and camouflage it.

I didnt notice it until someone said, they sure are trying to hide it in the photos. That being said it shouldnt be too difficult to "fix". It also shouldnt happen in the first place.

Other than the shoulder thing, it is a good looking model.

Racerguy180 wrote:

 Theophony wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
What's wrong with it?

It’s far from the body because they have the strap from the bolter hanging off of it. It looks like there’s a space for a flat washer between the torso and shoulder pad. It makes the body really disjointed. They have the model at an angle to try and camouflage it.

I didnt notice it until someone said, they sure are trying to hide it in the photos. That being said it shouldnt be too difficult to "fix". It also shouldnt happen in the first place.

Other than the shoulder thing, it is a good looking model.

So now i can't unsee it.

I didn't have time to check on that Raldoron price... but MAN...
I wonder, what's next on the lctb line.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/07/05/forge-world-pre-order-chapter-master-raldoron/

You know what is the funnies/saddest bit in this preview?

"Unlike his more ostentatious brethren, such as the Sanguinary Guard"

This one article gave more attention to Blood Angels signature unit than the whole FW Heresy book supposedly devoted to them. Go figure

I especially like the link leading to Sanguinary Guard in GW store, boy, people who follow it and expect them to be usable in HH as per their fluff are in for a surprise

 Irkjoe wrote:
They try to hide the shoulder with the angle too. There's some subversive stuff on their site especially with older models. They don't mention that the bio titan's legs don't support it or the malcador's tracks don't fit. The krieg infantry don't even come with all the same arms pictured.

And the Necomunda escher arms don't fit the plastic bodies without serious fiddling. Usual FW.

Mine did.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Mine did.

Same. You just have to make sure you match the arms to the right bodies. The letters on the runners should correspond to each body

I really Truly do not get FW, with the amount of stuff they have teased, how can they have a week of nothing?
It makes no logical sense. Where are the Golden Keshig?
The Landspeeder,
Hell, the Atomantic Pavise

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I really Truly do not get FW, with the amount of stuff they have teased, how can they have a week of nothing?
It makes no logical sense. Where are the Golden Keshig?
The Landspeeder,
Hell, the Atomantic Pavise

Its because you're looking at FW as entirely its own thing, but with the way GW restructured the studio into working on Specialist Games that isn't as much the case... From a release windows perspective GW doesn't distinguish the FW resin from the other Specialist Game models. All that Blackstone Fortress stuff is Specialist Games and in GW's mind fills that same release window for non-core game releases that a FW resin model would.

Tomorrow a lot of stuff is going up for preorder, they did this before in the past when they had a slew of plastic releases coincide.

Could be that since the other specialist games stuff and ME stuff is releasing tomorrow, they will have the resin go up for preorder at the same time.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I really Truly do not get FW, with the amount of stuff they have teased, how can they have a week of nothing?
It makes no logical sense. Where are the Golden Keshig?
The Landspeeder,
Hell, the Atomantic Pavise

Where are White Scars models that look like they have more than 5 minutes of effort put into them. BA and DA blow them completely out of the water. Hell all the older legions blow them out of the water.

I only just saw the promo of the White Scars landspeeder, and come on. The pilots are in Mk. II just like the praetor.

So they’re making praetors in armour that doesn't match that of the special terminators and other marines in armour that isn’t produced for line marines anymore.

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
I only just saw the promo of the White Scars landspeeder, and come on. The pilots are in Mk. II Just like the praetor.

So they’re making praetors in armour that doesn't match that of the special terminators and other marines in armour thatisnt produced for line marines anymore.

It doesn’t matter if the Praetors match the Ebon Keshig - they cant be joined by any characters.

 Crazyterran wrote:
Could be that since the other specialist games stuff and ME stuff is releasing tomorrow, they will have the resin go up for preorder at the same time.

Yes - Scouring of The Shire, Hobbit-hole Upgrade Set & Willow Rosebark are now up for pre-order.

 aka_mythos wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I really Truly do not get FW, with the amount of stuff they have teased, how can they have a week of nothing?
It makes no logical sense. Where are the Golden Keshig?
The Landspeeder,
Hell, the Atomantic Pavise

Its because you're looking at FW as entirely its own thing, but with the way GW restructured the studio into working on Specialist Games that isn't as much the case... From a release windows perspective GW doesn't distinguish the FW resin from the other Specialist Game models. All that Blackstone Fortress stuff is Specialist Games and in GW's mind fills that same release window for non-core game releases that a FW resin model would.

er … Blackstone Fortress is not and never has been a Forge World product. It comes from the Boxed Games studio. Forge World does the Age of Darkness (Heresy), Middle Earth and Specialist Games (Adeptus Titanicus, Necromunda and Blood Bowl) lines, although the non-resin releases are sold via the main GW sales channels.

 zedmeister wrote:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Mine did.

Same. You just have to make sure you match the arms to the right bodies. The letters on the runners should correspond to each body

So, they even want the Forgeworld ones to all look the same. feth, I HATE GW right now.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
I only just saw the promo of the White Scars landspeeder, and come on. The pilots are in Mk. II Just like the praetor.

So they’re making praetors in armour that doesn't match that of the special terminators and other marines in armour thatisnt produced for line marines anymore.

It doesn’t matter if the Praetors match the Ebon Keshig - they cant be joined by any characters.

A lot of players taking Qin Xa are going to use Ebon Keshik models to represent regular Keshik with power glaives, and I’ll probably mix a set of five with five plastic Tartaros to use as regular Terminators. Some symbols will have to be removed, but they’re the closest thing we’re getting to legion-specific infantry other than Falcon’s Claws. In other words, they’re the closest replacement to legion torsos.

I do find it disappointing that the Kazagan pilots and Golden Keshik riders are relatively plain.

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
I only just saw the promo of the White Scars landspeeder, and come on. The pilots are in Mk. II just like the praetor.

So they’re making praetors in armour that doesn't match that of the special terminators and other marines in armour that isn’t produced for line marines anymore.

As A white scar player I am incredibily happy that theyre in mk2. As are most white scars players I believe. I also wouldnt be surprised if plastic mk2 is on the horizon with dark angels (the other mk2 rocking legion) being the next legion out. I dont think it would be a stretch to assume the next starter set when it comes will.have plastic mk2 in it.

As for terminators, as alreay said they cant be joined by characters and this way you have a basis for.a white scar esque terminator in both armour marks. The glaives are easily swappable to put on cataphractii and you can cast the praetor body (or buy a few if your blood is rich) to get some white scar specific termies in both marks of armour.

As for the quality of models, I own all the ones that have so far been released and they are incredibly good.

Carlisimo wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

A lot of players taking Qin Xa are going to use Ebon Keshik models to represent regular Keshik with power glaives, and I’ll probably mix a set of five with five plastic Tartaros to use as regular Terminators. Some symbols will have to be removed, but they’re the closest thing we’re getting to legion-specific infantry other than Falcon’s Claws. In other words, they’re the closest replacement to legion torsos.

I do find it disappointing that the Kazagan pilots and Golden Keshik riders are relatively plain.

Qin Xa is in Tartaros Armor though isnt he? Im disapointed in how pretty much all of their models are relatively plain, none of them have much going for them other than the Cat Praetor and the Dreads.

Bobug wrote:

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
I only just saw the promo of the White Scars landspeeder, and come on. The pilots are in Mk. II just like the praetor.

So they’re making praetors in armour that doesn't match that of the special terminators and other marines in armour that isn’t produced for line marines anymore.

As A white scar player I am incredibily happy that theyre in mk2. As are most white scars players I believe. I also wouldnt be surprised if plastic mk2 is on the horizon with dark angels (the other mk2 rocking legion) being the next legion out. I dont think it would be a stretch to assume the next starter set when it comes will.have plastic mk2 in it.

As for terminators, as alreay said they cant be joined by characters and this way you have a basis for.a white scar esque terminator in both armour marks. The glaives are easily swappable to put on cataphractii and you can cast the praetor body (or buy a few if your blood is rich) to get some white scar specific termies in both marks of armour.

As for the quality of models, I own all the ones that have so far been released and they are incredibly good.

I would be incredibly surprised if Plastic Mk 2 became a thing, considering other than helmets and a handful of MkII Characters its pretty much non-exsistant on FW.

You can like the models all you want, but I am incredibly put off by the FW releases. None of them are up to the standard of the other Legions. They are all incredibly plain with very little marking them as special. WOW some of them have horses on their chest for the Ebon Keshig and they have those awful side skirts, which would look much better if they wrapped around the back of the model. Then we have the laziest Glaives I have ever seen. Seriously, they are boomerangs on a bent stick. How hard would it be to make them look like proper Mongolian/Chinese Glaives? Maybe they should have put some more effort into them, rather than putting it all into the Dark Angels and Blood Angels.

This is why I re-write rules for my play group. HH is awesome but theres so many stupid restrictions and seemingly left out rules. "Oh so every salamander character down to a tactical sergeant can take a master crafted weapon, but the Primarch of the Salamanders, literal god tier master smith, dosent have a master crafted weapon?"

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I really Truly do not get FW, with the amount of stuff they have teased, how can they have a week of nothing?
It makes no logical sense. Where are the Golden Keshig?
The Landspeeder,
Hell, the Atomantic Pavise

Its because you're looking at FW as entirely its own thing, but with the way GW restructured the studio into working on Specialist Games that isn't as much the case... From a release windows perspective GW doesn't distinguish the FW resin from the other Specialist Game models. All that Blackstone Fortress stuff is Specialist Games and in GW's mind fills that same release window for non-core game releases that a FW resin model would.

er … Blackstone Fortress is not and never has been a Forge World product. It comes from the Boxed Games studio. Forge World does the Age of Darkness (Heresy), Middle Earth and Specialist Games (Adeptus Titanicus, Necromunda and Blood Bowl) lines, although the non-resin releases are sold via the main GW sales channels.

There is a load of BloodBowl and Adeptus Titanicus coming out at the moment too. The point is that GW creates a release schedule for their two core games, with a limited number of release windows for non-core game products. Boxed Game, Forge World, or Specialist Games it really doesn't matter which, the three are competing for the same production resources and non-core game release windows.

FW Chaos Knight Update & Imperial Knight Update (WarCom article).

 aka_mythos wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I really Truly do not get FW, with the amount of stuff they have teased, how can they have a week of nothing?
It makes no logical sense. Where are the Golden Keshig?
The Landspeeder,
Hell, the Atomantic Pavise

Its because you're looking at FW as entirely its own thing, but with the way GW restructured the studio into working on Specialist Games that isn't as much the case... From a release windows perspective GW doesn't distinguish the FW resin from the other Specialist Game models. All that Blackstone Fortress stuff is Specialist Games and in GW's mind fills that same release window for non-core game releases that a FW resin model would.

To be fair, the pavise not being released two(?) years after being previewed is kinda bonkers.

Pity the daemon knights have missed out again.

First turn lancer charge anyone? Now cheaper and stronger.

 gorgon wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I really Truly do not get FW, with the amount of stuff they have teased, how can they have a week of nothing?
It makes no logical sense. Where are the Golden Keshig?
The Landspeeder,
Hell, the Atomantic Pavise

Its because you're looking at FW as entirely its own thing, but with the way GW restructured the studio into working on Specialist Games that isn't as much the case... From a release windows perspective GW doesn't distinguish the FW resin from the other Specialist Game models. All that Blackstone Fortress stuff is Specialist Games and in GW's mind fills that same release window for non-core game releases that a FW resin model would.

To be fair, the pavise not being released two(?) years after being previewed is kinda bonkers.

Bran Redmaw says hello...

beast_gts wrote:
FW Chaos Knight Update & Imperial Knight Update (WarCom article).

Looks like the Acastus Porphyrion got heavily nerfed.

Lost 1 toughness

dropped from 4 brackets to 3 on the damage chart

top bracket is worse than before (-1" movement, WS and BS both higher)

body cost increased by 60 points

lost the ability to self repair

Ouch. I don't own one but that just feels bad to look at.
It would be one thing to increase the points but to also gut the stats down to where it is basically a slightly upgunned Dominus really hurts the soul.

So, the WarCom article says the Armiger Moirax are up for pre-order tomorrow. Can anyone remember how the weapon options were split up on the event pre-release ones? Did the WarCom photos (from Warhammer Fest UK 2019) match up with the kits?

They all got nerfed it looks like...biggest thing they lost was that 2D6 advance on all the Cerastus knights.

Some got slightly adjusted/buffed, iirc?

The Castigator got 2 more shots and a 2 attacks for 1 attack with sword?

The Atrapos (jesus fething christ, will they ever decide on spelling - Atrapos or Atropos?) got the Singularity gun profile chaged, no longer random roll on 6.

The Acheron lost its -1 to hit with his Reaper Chainfist.

Porphyrion though got beaten. Probably because it was the main FW Knight that saw competitive play?

Jack Flask wrote:

dropped from 4 brackets to 3 on the damage chart

My stompa would be happy for that. Now it degrades ridiculously fast.

Moirax seem interesting.

I don’t think there’s anything that puts them above Armiger class. But, each potential load out has its own appeal. Apart from the Graviton Pulsar. With random shots, S6 it seems a bit weedy, despite its -3 save and bonus damage against targets with Sv3+ or better.

I mean, against the right target (Meganobz, Tau Crisis Suits) it could prove utterly deadly. But I’m concerned those aren’t units you might see all that often?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hmm.

£37 a chuck. Don't come with the plastic weapon sprue.

Forgeworld wrote:Similar in size to the Imperial Armiger, the Mechanicum Moirax is a skirmisher, using its speed to hunt ahead of larger Knights.

So it's not a Armiger variant, it's a class by itself now?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
£37 a chuck. Don't come with the plastic weapon sprue.

That's pushed it just out of auto-buy for me.

Not that bad, to be honest. I was expecting like 60 euros per 1.

Yeah.

I mean, the price isn't 'must have', but neither am I particularly put off by them.

And Twin Lightning Locks do hold tactical appeal. With a straight 6 shots, they're more reliable than the Autocannon Armiger. And whilst they lack the damage, the exploding Sixes could seriously help tackle horde infantry - and, I've not number crunched because it's not really my bag - a pair of them could rival the appeal for Chaos Knights of a twin Gatling Cannon Questoris for that same duty.

Their S6 also means they're fairly (and no more than fairly) decent against MEQ, as we can reliably wound them.

Wait, you just get the upgrade sprue in it?

Not Online!!! wrote:
Wait, you just get the upgrade sprue in it?

You get the plastic Armiger minus the plastic weapons, and the resin upgrades.

Yup. Three spruces, bucket o’resin gubbins.

At least according to the pics FW have put up.

You know, I’m gonna take one for the team and order a dual Lightning Lock for my Chaos Knights. I shall report back in due course!

So you get a "full" knight for the price. Just sans the regular equipment.

i actually quite like them. They could be easily converted into nice little chaos thingies.

If we can rely on the pics from FW, yes.

However, I do question what the point of not including it is? I mean, whilst of course I've not seen the moulds, I'm wondering if they can provide the chassis sprues here, without the weapons also be cast up?

I know there are separate weapon sprues for the two Armiger Variants, so quite possibly. Order placed, and I'll be able to confirm approx next Saturday. Different Dakkatime, same Dakkachannel.

The Moirax is very cool looking. I actually can't decide which of the heads I like more.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
If we can rely on the pics from FW, yes.

However, I do question what the point of not including it is? I mean, whilst of course I've not seen the moulds, I'm wondering if they can provide the chassis sprues here, without the weapons also be cast up?

I know there are separate weapon sprues for the two Armiger Variants, so quite possibly. Order placed, and I'll be able to confirm approx next Saturday. Different Dakkatime, same Dakkachannel.

Same reason you don't get warglaive sprues in helverin and vice versa.

Indeedy.

Still kinda semi-hopeful is all

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Indeedy.

Still kinda semi-hopeful is all

That GW or it's subsidaries are not greedy?



Hope really dies last.

Edit: I should probably be silent, i still want a malcador and hope it to be decent

Eh, it kinda makes sense. And I do expect to be disappointed in my hope.

But given I want the dual Lightning Lock, it'll be fleeting and short lived. Like Space Above and Beyond.

Yes I know. That's still too soon.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Eh, it kinda makes sense. And I do expect to be disappointed in my hope.

But given I want the dual Lightning Lock, it'll be fleeting and short lived. Like Space Above and Beyond.

Yes I know. That's still too soon.

Does chaos even get them though?

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Eh, it kinda makes sense. And I do expect to be disappointed in my hope.

But given I want the dual Lightning Lock, it'll be fleeting and short lived. Like Space Above and Beyond.

Yes I know. That's still too soon.

Does chaos even get them though?

Yes

beast_gts wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Eh, it kinda makes sense. And I do expect to be disappointed in my hope.

But given I want the dual Lightning Lock, it'll be fleeting and short lived. Like Space Above and Beyond.

Yes I know. That's still too soon.

Does chaos even get them though?

Yes

It depresses me on how much better the moirax is compared to my Decimator.

The product description text state that the Moirax has a "carapace-mounted heavy stubber ... which can be replaced with a meltagun" but neither the 30k or 40k rules allow it to have a carapace weapon...

They're some really pretty models, way nicer than the other armigers.

The Atrapos is still like 550 pts but lost it's run ability and it's 4++.

Though I guess the singularity cannon got better.

The castigator got better, and it's one of the cheapest ones.

That Armiger looks pretty decent - with a pair of Lightning Locks it's 155pts for 12 S6 -2 D1 attacks that generate two extra hits on 6s.

beast_gts wrote:
The product description text state that the Moirax has a "carapace-mounted heavy stubber ... which can be replaced with a meltagun" but neither the 30k or 40k rules allow it to have a carapace weapon...

I think those are just included on the body sprues is why they mention them.

What I'm more interested in is what models to use for the graviton pulsar and moirax conversion beam, since I don't see them releasing alongside the moirax kit.

Quasistellar wrote:
What I'm more interested in is what models to use for the graviton pulsar and moirax conversion beam, since I don't see them releasing alongside the moirax kit.

They are coming - they were previewed at Warhammer Fest UK 2019 -

Interesting--is that the only conversion beamer that doesn't have a dish on it?

I have to say I quite like the new armigers - they look a good fit for a 30k mech collection... if only FW would stop discontinuing the rest of it.

Quasistellar wrote:
Interesting--is that the only conversion beamer that doesn't have a dish on it?

No - the Chaos ones look different, like the (now OOP) Decimator Heavy Conversion Beamer:

Yeah, the rail + coil w/ gap then emitter is how they look; the dish is just one style.

 Crazyterran wrote:
The Atrapos is still like 550 pts but lost it's run ability and it's 4++.

Though I guess the singularity cannon got better.

The castigator got better, and it's one of the cheapest ones.

The changes to the Cerastus knights is disappointing. I think what they lost was what made them distinct. They're now underperforming Questoris with an extra 2" movement and 3 wounds.

Even before most of the differences between the Cerastus and Questoris were really more in the way of trade offs than advantages for which we were paying. The Cerastus chassis knights are generally shorter range shooting and close combat with their abilities more niche in comparison to the Questoris; when we look at the Questoris there are fewer rules targeting specific types of units and they have many more advantages with how the codex is written making them all round better. Often times when they're optimally kitted to a role similar to the comparable Cerastus they out perform them in all but most narrow use case.

I imagine when they worked on this they said "Its priced like a Questoris plus the extra points for the extra wounds?- So unless we want to raise the price we should cut all these rules, right?"... without really considering how the unit is used. Before when you paid to take a Cerastus over a Questoris, what you were buying is the ability to put that unit where you needed it, its otherwise performing just below the level of similarly purposed Questoris.

The loss of that run for the Cerastus knights is pretty substantial for how you have to use them. They will now have to use another turn to get where they're going, they will be shot at and have fewer wounds when they get there; if they get to shoot it's far more likely to be a less ideal target. For an army that fields so few models on the tabletop you can't afford to lose your opportunities to attack and this is practically a 1 turn handicap for the Cerastus knight compared to what it did before. If you were using these before in an all knight list before this is ~5% reduction in your armies capabilities for each one you take.

Losing that and its other abilities is more than 1/6th drop in capabilities... for the same cost... for units that were 50-50 on breaking even when they were used before... So their weapons all got a little better, but did they get that much better? -I don't think so.They also still have 3 extra wounds, but that doesn't mean much if you effectively take another turn before you can really use it the way its intended.

Even had their weapons been made so much better to justify the ability loss, they would need a substantial lore change for it to make sense.

The Porphyrion, the loss of a point of toughness was either a typo or its like its rules was written by someone that's never seen the size of that model. It damage progression is worse and so is its BS. The Chaos Desecrator's Laser Destructor is roughly comparable to 1/2 - of the Porphyrion's twin magma lascannons. It costs 80pts for the Desecrator to have that and its special rules, 50 of which is probably what the Destructor costs and is consistent with the Porphyrions weapon cost. This is just to say all the Porphyrions weapons are fully considered in their own prices. So just looking at the chassis the Porphyrion is paying 100pts for all of 2 wounds now. Even if the Porphyrion deserved no efficiencies despite being such a big point sink, scaling 100pts over the Dominus it should have ended up with W35 to 37. Given that this edition doesn't favor low volume - high damage shooting, I'd say both the Porphyrion and the Descrators main weapons are overpriced. You look at something like the Castellan where much of what made it as good as it was, were all the peripheral rules that don't really cost points; its points went up because of that. The Porphyrion doesn't get to benefit from that nearly as much, so even though the Castellan was bumped up 100pts it wasn't as if the Porphyrion was benefiting from this abstract 100pts and needed to come down in capabilities or go up in cost for it, but that appears to be whats happened. So after all this the Porphyrion is roughly equal to a Castellan and is 100pts more... even though it doesn't make sense.

Yeah the porphyrion looks like hot garbage now for the points. You don't exactly see Castellans much post nerf and this thing is not worth the points difference without some special rules or the additional toughness or ballistic skill. That's gotta be one of the biggest nerfs I've seen in 8th.

On the other hand, the armiger variants look pretty sweet. A charging moirax with dual claws/rad flamers would make any elite infantry like custodes run in fear. I wish they got an additional attack or something for taking dual claws though.

The lightning locks look to be the points sweet spot at 155 for a dual loadout, and their price in cash money is not prohibitive (about a 50% premium per model which isn't too horrible for Forgeworld resin).

Methinks they took the 28mm Porphyrion's mojo and gave it to the AT version.

Wow so your saying the main studio just gutted another load of fw’s 40k stuff I’m shocked I tells you.

 gorgon wrote:
Methinks they took the 28mm Porphyrion's mojo and gave it to the AT version.

Do you or anyone else remember when FW first showed off the the Poryphyrion and it was much smaller... originally intended as an intermediate size of knight that was bulkier than the Questoris and shorter than a Cerastus... I feel like we just got that version of the model's rules.

We were told the supersizing was to make it more distinctive in epic... This is pure speculation, but I think GW told FW to supersize it because those months after it was first shown and then supersize coincide with when GW's main studio would have been working on the Dominus... that like a number of other decisions I think are because GW's decided that FW is self competing with the main studio. This rules release makes me only believe it more. How much you want to bet 20 months from now GW releases something in a similar role to the old Cerastus knights?

SeanDrake wrote:
Wow so your saying the main studio just gutted another load of fw’s 40k stuff I’m shocked I tells you.

Can't wait for the "official" gw rules
.

The Cheesetide will roll over everything and yet the armies charachter be lost to the depth.

 aka_mythos wrote:
The changes to the Cerastus knights is disappointing. I think what they lost was what made them distinct.

The problem with what made them distinct before was that once the codex came out it was kind of into "this shouldn't be possible" territory. RIS got nerfed so it can't give you a 3++, and most people agreed that it was a necessary change. So isn't it a problem to have a default 4++ that can easily become a 3++ without even needing to spend CP? An extra D6 of advance distance is a minor buff when you only have the index rules and it's a tradeoff between shooting or moving fast to set up for a future turn. It's a major buff when you can shoot and charge after advancing and it becomes a straight 3.5" movement increase, on top of the increase they already have in base speed. It's easy to look at that and say that no, it really isn't good for the game to have a lancer with an average charge range of 32" (and a minimum of 22") and threatening an easy first-turn charge across a huge section of the table.

SeanDrake wrote:
Wow so your saying the main studio just gutted another load of fw’s 40k stuff I’m shocked I tells you.

A cynical person would think store managers have been lobbying the Studio, now they write the 40K FW model rules, to make FW a less attractive option, to save them having to be the Bad Guy banning FW from their stores. Or that the Studio team are just, still, relentlessly petty about FW repeatedly showing them up in terms of design aesthetic.

 Peregrine wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:
The changes to the Cerastus knights is disappointing. I think what they lost was what made them distinct.

The problem with what made them distinct before was that once the codex came out it was kind of into "this shouldn't be possible" territory. RIS got nerfed so it can't give you a 3++, and most people agreed that it was a necessary change. So isn't it a problem to have a default 4++ that can easily become a 3++ without even needing to spend CP? An extra D6 of advance distance is a minor buff when you only have the index rules and it's a tradeoff between shooting or moving fast to set up for a future turn. It's a major buff when you can shoot and charge after advancing and it becomes a straight 3.5" movement increase, on top of the increase they already have in base speed. It's easy to look at that and say that no, it really isn't good for the game to have a lancer with an average charge range of 32" (and a minimum of 22") and threatening an easy first-turn charge across a huge section of the table.

If your going to insist on gutting rules from units then they need to see point reductions aswell.
What are you talking about on the 3++ without spending CP? That wasn't possible GE just butchered FW models rules and left them paying massive points for borderline unplayable overcosted trash.

Yeah, the fact that with House Terryn you could advance and charge and pretty much be on the opponents table edge turn one with a Lancer, Acheron, or Atrapos was a pretty terrifying thing.

you can still probably cross from right on the deployment line to the enemy's deployment zone (14" + 3.5" + 7") but it's not quite the sure thing it used to be. And if you have the Land Strider Warlord Trait...

Ice_can wrote:
What are you talking about on the 3++ without spending CP? That wasn't possible GE just butchered FW models rules and left them paying massive points for borderline unplayable overcosted trash.

Never mind, I had it backwards. Several of the FW knights had a 4++ by default which let you get a 3++ without spending your warlord trait, but you still had to play RIS. Still arguably a bit excessive to have a default 4++ when GW says that a 4++ is the absolute best you can have and only with a stratagem or warlord trait.

 Peregrine wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
What are you talking about on the 3++ without spending CP? That wasn't possible GE just butchered FW models rules and left them paying massive points for borderline unplayable overcosted trash.

Never mind, I had it backwards. Several of the FW knights had a 4++ by default which let you get a 3++ without spending your warlord trait, but you still had to play RIS. Still arguably a bit excessive to have a default 4++ when GW says that a 4++ is the absolute best you can have and only with a stratagem or warlord trait.

No it didn't GW rewrote that strategum ages ago, and it's not like they got it for free each one of them was paying a points cost for it and they have lost the rules with no reduction in points.

First Legion - Dark Angels Contemptor and Praetor up for pre-order:


https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Dark-Angels-Legion-Terminator-Praetor-2019


https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Dark-Angels-Legion-Contemptor-Dreadnought-2019

Lovely models. Like the fact that the contemptor comes with multiple sarcophagus icons that you can swap out.

beast_gts wrote:
The product description text state that the Moirax has a "carapace-mounted heavy stubber ... which can be replaced with a meltagun" but neither the 30k or 40k rules allow it to have a carapace weapon...

And you can't actually fit either on the model, conversions aside, as the carapace only has a mounting position for the shield emitter.

Group shot from the family picnic:

These are amazingly good looking models <3

Saw the black, robes, sword post and thought templars. Ah well, not this time.

That praetor might be my favorite non-named character terminator GW's ever put out.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
That praetor might be my favorite non-named character terminator GW's ever put out.

With you there. Now seriously considering adding in an allied Dark Angels legion to my 30k collection...

That Praetor is nice. Almost nice enough to make me walk back my self imposed moratorium on marines.

I thought it was a Templar too based on the colors and sword too.

Where's the power armored praetor that got previewed with the terminator?

Ice_can wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:
The changes to the Cerastus knights is disappointing. I think what they lost was what made them distinct.

The problem with what made them distinct before was that once the codex came out it was kind of into "this shouldn't be possible" territory. RIS got nerfed so it can't give you a 3++, and most people agreed that it was a necessary change. So isn't it a problem to have a default 4++ that can easily become a 3++ without even needing to spend CP? An extra D6 of advance distance is a minor buff when you only have the index rules and it's a tradeoff between shooting or moving fast to set up for a future turn. It's a major buff when you can shoot and charge after advancing and it becomes a straight 3.5" movement increase, on top of the increase they already have in base speed. It's easy to look at that and say that no, it really isn't good for the game to have a lancer with an average charge range of 32" (and a minimum of 22") and threatening an easy first-turn charge across a huge section of the table.

If your going to insist on gutting rules from units then they need to see point reductions aswell.
What are you talking about on the 3++ without spending CP? That wasn't possible GE just butchered FW models rules and left them paying massive points for borderline unplayable overcosted trash.

Agreed. Part of the problem is that they could have taken a variety of approaches, but what they did was heavy handed and kinda lazy. They removed the character of the unit and insist that if you want to have the unit described in lore you have to use rules that define Knights in general. That would kinda be like saying a techmarine can't repair anymore, if you want to represent that just use one of the stratagems or abilities that can regen wounds. Just like how that would turn a Techmarine into a generic character with some different weapons, we end up with Cerastus knights being pretty generic and bland.

They could have tweaked the rules or they could have replaced the rule with something else that represents the kind of capability and character of the unit without eliminating it entirely. If the index rules are part of the problem it's easy enough to say certain index rules can't be applied to Cerastus Knights. It was high priced for what it was before, now that the unit is diminished, its just overpriced. But its not just a little overpriced, its easily 25% overpriced. People hate on tactical marines for their price, but would they endear you anymore than they do now if they cost 20pts a model? "But you can play them because their cool" or "the fluff"... or you could expect lore, coolness, model design, and rules to cohesively and consistently represent the unit.

 Coolyo294 wrote:
Where's the power armored praetor that got previewed with the terminator?

It’ll come out probably with the Leviathan in the next few weeks. They did the same with the White Scars ones. I assume just padding the releases out.

That's a gorgeous Praetor. I hate bling and I'm still tempted to buy one and get it painted.

Nice of them to show some Dark Angels in the background in MkII armour that you can't get any more.



Bastards.

Looks like some krieg stuff that was listed as unavailable for a while vanished from the store. Hopefully not the next wave of stealth removals.

 Slinky wrote:

This image kinda killed this model for me. Sword looked cool from above, but now you can see it's literally thicker than wider, like some sort of club. Ditto for the robe, looked good when you couldn't see the edge, but both bits are thicker than his legs. Alas, no FW model comes even close to plastic Cata TDA Captain, details are nice, but the execution completely shatters any immersion.

Its so it doesn break or end up to thin.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Its so it doesn break or end up to thin.

I think we all know why but I suspect the point is that lots of folks get FW character figs specifically for the asthetics... And that IMO does detract from an otherwise very nice fig.

I wonder if you could get all the detail thinner if you cast it in something like white metal...just a thought.

 warboss wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Its so it doesn break or end up to thin.

I think we all know why but I suspect the point is that lots of folks get FW character figs specifically for the asthetics... And that IMO does detract from an otherwise very nice fig.

Accept the FW back catalogue is full of much better sculpted swords and cloaks/robes just off the top of my head the inquisition stuff Solomon Lox and Rex both have excellent sculpts without the need for girder swords or duvet cloaks.

It's not a sculpting/material limitation as much as a sculptor limitation they xxxl cloaks started to appear with the 30k TSons stuff
and the swords shortly after I think. I guess they decided that given the new painter they were using the sculpts were less of an issue as once painted they would look gak anyway.

 farmersboy wrote:
I wonder if you could get all the detail thinner if you cast it in something like white metal...just a thought.

Chunky capes like that are characteristic of the older metal models - it's very much like the sword brethren models from that picture.

It may well be that they were just getting too much wastage with stuff coming out of the mould broken

and joking about FW sending out stuff that should have been binned aside you even experienced and skilled resin casters do get a fair amount of failures its just that customers shouldn't normally see them (except in bulk miscast packs like Mierce does)

failure rates also go up if you've got new casters or are trying to 'stretch' the number of casts you get from a mould before you replace it both of which I suspect FW will have been doing as staff got borrowed by the specialist games division and GW proper

 Irbis wrote:

 Slinky wrote:

This image kinda killed this model for me. Sword looked cool from above, but now you can see it's literally thicker than wider, like some sort of club. Ditto for the robe, looked good when you couldn't see the edge, but both bits are thicker than his legs. Alas, no FW model comes even close to plastic Cata TDA Captain, details are nice, but the execution completely shatters any immersion.

At least if there’s ever a Warhammer x NERF crossover, Hasbro can use this model’s digitial renders for reference when they make a foam power sword. Already the perfect thickness to translate to foam.

I’ll give the sculptor credit for the rest of the model, he/she tried and it’s still overall better than most of the plastic marines we’ve been getting. The Contemptor is downright awesome too.

I think the foam sword doesn't take that much away from the model, it's bloody fantastic and if it's too obnoxious there is always the option of replacing that blade with a similar DA themed plastic one. Not ideal, but an option nonetheless.

SeanDrake wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Its so it doesn break or end up to thin.

I think we all know why but I suspect the point is that lots of folks get FW character figs specifically for the asthetics... And that IMO does detract from an otherwise very nice fig.

Accept the FW back catalogue is full of much better sculpted swords and cloaks/robes just off the top of my head the inquisition stuff Solomon Lox and Rex both have excellent sculpts without the need for girder swords or duvet cloaks.

It's not a sculpting/material limitation as much as a sculptor limitation they xxxl cloaks started to appear with the 30k TSons stuff
and the swords shortly after I think. I guess they decided that given the new painter they were using the sculpts were less of an issue as once painted they would look gak anyway.

I didn't claim that there weren't examples of better sculpted swords or even that it was an unavoidable limitation but rather that I understand why they did it. It's an important difference as I, like you, also would have preferred a thinner sword. I'm simply restating that they prioritized durability over asthetics. If I wanted chunky swords that don't break easily, I'd buy one of their plastic minis kits. And in case you don't believe me, here is a post I made just a few days ago commenting on one of the same figs you mentioned as an example.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/2130/771186.page#10538947

I love the thin sword on Rex but I fully admit that it's also incredibly fragile. As for making the robes thin, here is the pic I uploaded for a 2011 review of that fig where I detail the negative aspects of thin robes as my legit FW copy had multiple defects because of that thin material that I highlighted in the gallery pic linked below.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/209607-.html

GW simply prioritized durability and casting ease over asthetics. I don't agree with that choice (I'd rather they prioritize QA and casting training instead of lowering the quality/asthetics) but I understand why they did it as it's simply cheaper for them to sculpt it thicker.

The sword looks more like a Knife-blade instead of a actual sword.
Or a chisel-
But the rest of the mini is actually quite nice.

It's a Terminator Sword. It's gonna be bigger ya know.

 warboss wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Its so it doesn break or end up to thin.

I think we all know why but I suspect the point is that lots of folks get FW character figs specifically for the asthetics... And that IMO does detract from an otherwise very nice fig.

Accept the FW back catalogue is full of much better sculpted swords and cloaks/robes just off the top of my head the inquisition stuff Solomon Lox and Rex both have excellent sculpts without the need for girder swords or duvet cloaks.

It's not a sculpting/material limitation as much as a sculptor limitation they xxxl cloaks started to appear with the 30k TSons stuff
and the swords shortly after I think. I guess they decided that given the new painter they were using the sculpts were less of an issue as once painted they would look gak anyway.

I didn't claim that there weren't examples of better sculpted swords or even that it was an unavoidable limitation but rather that I understand why they did it. It's an important difference as I, like you, also would have preferred a thinner sword. I'm simply restating that they prioritized durability over asthetics. If I wanted chunky swords that don't break easily, I'd buy one of their plastic minis kits. And in case you don't believe me, here is a post I made just a few days ago commenting on one of the same figs you mentioned as an example.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/2130/771186.page#10538947

I love the thin sword on Rex but I fully admit that it's also incredibly fragile. As for making the robes thin, here is the pic I uploaded for a 2011 review of that fig where I detail the negative aspects of thin robes as my legit FW copy had multiple defects because of that thin material that I highlighted in the gallery pic linked below.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/209607-.html

GW simply prioritized durability and casting ease over asthetics. I don't agree with that choice (I'd rather they prioritize QA and casting training instead of lowering the quality/asthetics) but I understand why they did it as it's simply cheaper for them to sculpt it thicker.

Sorry I know I quoted you but I was responding to some of the comments after yours my bad.

I agree they went for durability over aesthetic but it just strikes me as odd given it’s a mini in the essentially boutique line where aesthetics were always the number one draw.

Also with the cloaks/robes there surely must be a better compromise than either good like the old stuff and sculpted in play doh like the new ones. I mean some of them are like a cm thick in places there terrible, at least with the swords you can pretend there a funny shaped mace.

Gotta love “nothing new, because reasons” FW Fridays

Golden Keshig are here!

Are the Chinese holding their damn transfers hostage or something?

Is that MKII or MKIII armour they're wearing? It's pretty cool to see!

Not really gone on the models themselves though.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Is that MKII or MKIII armour they're wearing?

Looks like MK III.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Is that MKII or MKIII armour they're wearing? It's pretty cool to see!

Not really gone on the models themselves though.

It actually looks like Mk III as it's got the reinforced plating over the segmented plate

Do we have rules for using these in 40k?

gilljoy wrote:
Do we have rules for using these in 40k?

Why would you, they're a Legion unit.

 Yodhrin wrote:

gilljoy wrote:
Do we have rules for using these in 40k?

Why would you, they're a Legion unit.

It's my only hope of getting white scars jetbikes in 40k :(

 CragHack wrote:
Gotta love “nothing new, because reasons” FW Fridays

Ah yes only one unit for 30k marines so it's nothing new

tneva82 wrote:

 CragHack wrote:
Gotta love “nothing new, because reasons” FW Fridays

Ah yes only one unit for 30k marines so it's nothing new

In his defence, FW posted these late (around 1 and 1/2 hours later than usual) and he posted that before FW did.

I like how there are only 2 miniatures in that photo.

Most news goes up and out a lot later these days. Used to trickle throughout the afternoon, but nowadays, it's almost all past five, in the evening for me.

gilljoy wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

gilljoy wrote:
Do we have rules for using these in 40k?

Why would you, they're a Legion unit.

It's my only hope of getting white scars jetbikes in 40k :(

That's what I mean though, jetbikes are a 30K unit. There's enough backtracking on the technological decline aspect of 40K already, they need to leave some stuff in the past or the idea that 40K constitutes any kind of meaningful decline as opposed to 30K just becomes nonsense.

 Yodhrin wrote:

gilljoy wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

gilljoy wrote:
Do we have rules for using these in 40k?

Why would you, they're a Legion unit.

It's my only hope of getting white scars jetbikes in 40k :(

That's what I mean though, jetbikes are a 30K unit. There's enough backtracking on the technological decline aspect of 40K already, they need to leave some stuff in the past or the idea that 40K constitutes any kind of meaningful decline as opposed to 30K just becomes nonsense.

Yeah I get that, it's a shame they didn't bring out new bikes with the scars codex it seems like a missed opportunity.

I may pick one up and paint it up if I ever start a 30k army

 Yodhrin wrote:
That's what I mean though, jetbikes are a 30K unit. There's enough backtracking on the technological decline aspect of 40K already, they need to leave some stuff in the past or the idea that 40K constitutes any kind of meaningful decline as opposed to 30K just becomes nonsense.

Haha, good one. Pound to a penny that Primaris will get super special Cawl pattern Jetbikes!

 zedmeister wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
That's what I mean though, jetbikes are a 30K unit. There's enough backtracking on the technological decline aspect of 40K already, they need to leave some stuff in the past or the idea that 40K constitutes any kind of meaningful decline as opposed to 30K just becomes nonsense.

Haha, good one. Pound to a penny that Primaris will get super special Cawl pattern Jetbikes!

Considering that there's literally a fluff popout in the new Codex that Guilliman and Cawl have given special dispensation to the Mechanicus Priesthood to continue researching and actively developing anti-grav tech...yeah.

Space Marines Codex p87 wrote:
Anti-Grav Technology
For millennia Mankind had lost the secrets to constructing anti-gravity devices, with only a few relics from the Dark Age of technology remaining. It was the discovery of an ancient STC by the famed Arkhan Land that led to a breakthrough in rediscovering and restoring the ancient technology. The Adeptus Mechanicus was able to once more produce anti-gravity generators and impeller units that --while nowhere near as elegant or refined as those heretical tecnologies used by certain xenos species--were robust, reliable and could be adapted for use on a variety of hulls, from light reconnaissance craft like the Land Speeder right up to the Astraeus super-heavy tank. With the direct sanction of both Roboute Guilliman and the Fabricator General of Mars, a select handful of chosen Tech-Priests continue research and development into new gravitic battle tanks with which to bolster the battle lines of the Adeptus Astartes.

I wouldn't be shocked for an "Ooops! We made it miniaturized and came up with these crazy new gravbikes! Woo!" moment to show up down the line.

 zedmeister wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 CragHack wrote:
Gotta love “nothing new, because reasons” FW Fridays

Ah yes only one unit for 30k marines so it's nothing new

In his defence, FW posted these late (around 1 and 1/2 hours later than usual) and he posted that before FW did.

Yeah, FW always adds their new things at 11 AM GMT +2. Now they were late. Nice looking bikes.

Guys, fluff discussion elsewhere please.

 Yodhrin wrote:

That's what I mean though, jetbikes are a 30K unit. There's enough backtracking on the technological decline aspect of 40K already, they need to leave some stuff in the past or the idea that 40K constitutes any kind of meaningful decline as opposed to 30K just becomes nonsense.

You do realise that Primaris jetbikes are pretty much inevitable at this point? I was disappointed that we didn't get them with the WS book though. Anyway, many HH units have 40K rules, and it would make perfect sense for FW to give their stuff rules in the much more popular system. (Not that what FW does makes much sense, it it did we would have had 40K rules for Mechanicum units years ago... Like they promised!)

Looking at the things end on in the 360 degree photos - how on earth do the drivers see where they're going?

 Yodhrin wrote:
That's what I mean though, jetbikes are a 30K unit. There's enough backtracking on the technological decline aspect of 40K already, they need to leave some stuff in the past or the idea that 40K constitutes any kind of meaningful decline as opposed to 30K just becomes nonsense.

I wonder what that is then:

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Dark-Angels-Sammael
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Adeptus-Custodes-Vertus-Praetors-2018

And even excuse "DA is the only one remaining" doesn't work, not since their 6th edition fluff.

Speaking of Custode bikes, I like how you can grab these, plus full White Scar FW upgrade pack, and have the WS jetbike unit (better looking, too) for half of the price of new FW ones. To make it even more ironic, 40K custode bikes have emblems fitting 30K marines (raptors and lighting bolts) to a T. I agree with gilljoy, they really should have made combined 30/40K plastic unit (would even fit on one sprue seeing how simplistic they look) and put it in White Scar supplement. Alas, that would require for the FW to get off its resin circlejerky horse...

 Irbis wrote:


Speaking of Custode bikes, I like how you can grab these, plus full White Scar FW upgrade pack, and have the WS jetbike unit (better looking, too) for half of the price of new FW ones.

Right? Its pretty sad when you think about it.

Bob Lorgar wrote:
Looking at the things end on in the 360 degree photos - how on earth do the drivers see where they're going?

Pfft! If you can see where you're going, you're not going fast enough!

Autosenses.

Projected in the screen.

I’m glad they’re in Mk.III. Otherwise I’d have to spend this morning being angry that they did another unit in a type of armour you can’t get anymore?

News from Nova. There are some very big changes coming to Forgeworld. No details yet except that the very way that forgeworld operates will change. Expect a separate announcement with details in the next few weeks.

Chikout wrote:
News from Nova. There are some very big changes coming to Forgeworld. No details yet except that the very way that forgeworld operates will change. Expect a separate announcement with details in the next few weeks.

They have already changed to use the stupid gw exchange rates instead of real currency rates. So maybe making it available through retail channels, or co vetting some stuff over to plastic?

No, that's not ominous at all. Really hoping that doesn't mean "discontinue all 40k lines and focus on 30k and specialist games".

 Peregrine wrote:
No, that's not ominous at all. Really hoping that doesn't mean "discontinue all 40k lines and focus on 30k and specialist games".

Yeah I have a horrible feeling the anti FW faction won and FW is getting squatted with 30k becoming a Specialist Games thing and the Titans being left under the FW banner in name only.

Chikout wrote:
News from Nova. There are some very big changes coming to Forgeworld. No details yet except that the very way that forgeworld operates will change. Expect a separate announcement with details in the next few weeks.

Oh gak. This doesn’t strike me as something positive.

This is it, looks like Forgeworld as we know and love it is no more.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peregrine wrote:
No, that's not ominous at all. Really hoping that doesn't mean "discontinue all 40k lines and focus on 30k and specialist games".

I think you have it. Warhammer Legends is the closest hint for this. I can imagine pretty much see all FW 40k rules being shunted into that category and then a slow discontinue of the 40k lines over time. 30k shunted to specialist games (which in of itself is no bad thing) and there we have it...

Its got to be hard running FW at the moment as with more and more specialist games being launched there is going to be a strong impetus to pilfer staff from FW who are a known quantity to do it,

and FW get to try and recruit new staff who then take time to bed in (just in time to get pilfered for the new specialist game)

so I could see narrowing the scope of FW being a sensible option

Rip any 40k FW faction then.

"Great news! Now that your army no longer exists you will have sp much more money to buy the new space marines!"

That or it’s nothing negative. Maybe they will allow fw to be shipped to GW stores, or something like that. I don’t think they’d make an announcement about squatting or no longer writing FW rules for their biggest game, and instead just quietly do it as all new releases have no 40k rules.

At this stage I'd welcome FW at least having a clear direction outside of specialist games. 30K seems to be doing ok for itself but also seems to have lost its fire in a massive way; plus its a major model line trying to be sold by the specialist game wing that also shot itself in the foot with international sales.

Meanwhile 40K has done ok for most armies, but there are clearly winners and losers. Marines/Imperials have loads; whilst some armies like Dark Eldar have almost nothing.

Finally Fantasy is basically dead - barring 1 dragon (That started life in the End Times) and 2 sets of alternative stormcast heads; they've done nothing for YEARS. Many of the sculpts still stand up great, but there's clearly a huge gap in the fantasy realms for FW.
There's also oddities with the rules; things like the myrewurm are not in the Idoneth as a unit yet lore and visual design really suggests it should be.


FW is in a pickle and hopefully whatever comes its a clear single direction rather than a jumbled confusing situation.



Edit - almost all the "free peoples" models are on sold-out on the FW site and the Gigantic Chaos Spawn is too. Though sometimes FW uses this when they also make a new mould so its hard to be certain, but it seems likely the free peoples stuff could be lost entirely.

 Peregrine wrote:
"Great news! Now that your army no longer exists you will have sp much more money to buy the new space marines!"

i love my spikey ones to bits, but getting a dex 2.0 that was abused as an alpha test for C:SM 2.0 and then this makes me seriously reconsider my hobby budget.

Hmm,

It would simplify FW a lot if they just stopped making/trying to make rules and moved over to a collectors/painters company only

especially since despite GW trying to indicate FW should be allowed in the game so many groups/stores/tournaments say no

maybe keep 30K going as that's now a 'separate' game

and it would also mean less internal pressure/issues with GW proper 'stealing' any FW design they liked/proved really popular and doing plastic & rules for it

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

especially since despite GW trying to indicate FW should be allowed in the game so many groups/stores/tournaments say no

I sincerely hope it does turn out to be something banal or even positive, if for no other reason than they should never, ever cave in to the numpties you refer to.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Hmm,

It would simplify FW a lot if they just stopped making/trying to make rules and moved over to a collectors/painters company only

especially since despite GW trying to indicate FW should be allowed in the game so many groups/stores/tournaments say no

maybe keep 30K going as that's now a 'separate' game

and it would also mean less internal pressure/issues with GW proper 'stealing' any FW design they liked/proved really popular and doing plastic & rules for it

Maybe the ETC is anti people playing with their toys, but here on NA Forgeworld is doing fine and dandy.

Just because people house rule out GW rulesets (the FW books are written and updated by GW now, as seen by CA) doesn’t really have any hating on what they will do with the rules.

It might be that GW will just take over all the rules writing for non-30k, but with them having made things like the Atraues it would be foolish to think FW will be out of the 40k game.

IIRC, FW isn't handling the 40K rules anymore anyway. They're being done by the GW studio. That's why the FW Custodes stuff got axed as a FW book and instead was released in WD. At least that's what I heard. (Edit: got ninja'ed on that one. )

It does seem like we're looking at a tighter focus for FW. The announcement might be nothing other than confirmation of what we've been seeing already, with the success and expansion of SG, and the contractions in the 30K and 40K mini lines.

My guess is that there is an impending announcement of FW changing to support 8th edition for the finale of the HH.

 warboss wrote:
My guess is that there is an impending announcement of FW changing to support 8th edition for the finale of the HH.

That sounds awful.

pm713 wrote:

 warboss wrote:
My guess is that there is an impending announcement of FW changing to support 8th edition for the finale of the HH.

That sounds awful.

Yeah they do that and they may as well shutdown FW because it would kill off HH overnight and the only people championing it I know of are 40k players who want to share the misery.

8th is a dumpster fire that replaces bein....nvm not going there again other than to say 8th is shallow and boring unless you get off on rolling 1000s of dice to achieve very little.

Part of the reason I think HH initially exploded was because people could use their Legion lists against their friends (even if it wasn't necessarily balanced for that, smaller games were bad for Legions while larger bad for everyone else).

Now you have to find someone else willing to play HH/the old ruleset, and it's harder to just port over now that a lot of newer players are playing Primaris marines.

HH coming to 8th would let people play with their toys more... so...

There are pros and cons to both sides and, just to be clear, I wasn't advocating one over the other in my guess. I simply don't have enough experience (or really any beyond a tiny demo game with a single combat squad) to judge the current edition.

A rules change to 30K wouldn't represent big changes to the very way that FW operates. That language suggests something bigger than some ruleset changes.

SeanDrake wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 warboss wrote:
My guess is that there is an impending announcement of FW changing to support 8th edition for the finale of the HH.

That sounds awful.

Yeah they do that and they may as well shutdown FW because it would kill off HH overnight and the only people championing it I know of are 40k players who want to share the misery.

8th is a dumpster fire that replaces bein....nvm not going there again other than to say 8th is shallow and boring unless you get off on rolling 1000s of dice to achieve very little.

Crazyterran wrote:Part of the reason I think HH initially exploded was because people could use their Legion lists against their friends (even if it wasn't necessarily balanced for that, smaller games were bad for Legions while larger bad for everyone else).

Now you have to find someone else willing to play HH/the old ruleset, and it's harder to just port over now that a lot of newer players are playing Primaris marines.

HH coming to 8th would let people play with their toys more... so...

30k switching to 8th would finally get me to play it.

I just want them to make more cool models and support the primaris range with upgrade bodies, etc...

Comedy option: switch HH to the new Apocalypse rules. I'd play it.

 xttz wrote:
Comedy option: switch HH to the new Apocalypse rules. I'd play it.

Radical and probably would end up being quite popular after a period of time...

 zedmeister wrote:

 xttz wrote:
Comedy option: switch HH to the new Apocalypse rules. I'd play it.

Radical and probably would end up being quite popular after a period of time...

that actually sounds like fun

SeanDrake wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 warboss wrote:
My guess is that there is an impending announcement of FW changing to support 8th edition for the finale of the HH.

That sounds awful.

Yeah they do that and they may as well shutdown FW because it would kill off HH overnight and the only people championing it I know of are 40k players who want to share the misery.

8th is a dumpster fire that replaces bein....nvm not going there again other than to say 8th is shallow and boring unless you get off on rolling 1000s of dice to achieve very little.

Honestly? Sounds like every edition of 40k i’ve played.

I hope it’s nothing bad for FW, but it’s way past time that it was fully rolled in so that each game is being produced coherently by one team and FW models are fully integrated like they are in LotR, and GW scraps having two different websites.

 Baragash wrote:
I hope it’s nothing bad for FW, but it’s way past time that it was fully rolled in so that each game is being produced coherently by one team and FW models are fully integrated like they are in LotR, and GW scraps having two different websites.

As far as a lot of us are concerned, what you're suggesting would absolutely be bad for FW. I mean, you realise you're essentially arguing that FW should cease to exist? I can think of few things worse for it.

The whole point of FW is that it exists separate from the main studio, free to pursue oddities and passion projects with an inherently lower sales potential using a production media suited to that lower volume production. There's a case to be made that if one of those passion projects - the HH game for example - becomes more popular than the base remit of the company can support it should be spun off into its own team, but even then that team shouldn't be part of the main Studio, or else it risks losing the very qualities that made it that popular in the first place.

A this point, I'm just desperately hoping that the pretty wild rumour someone was peddling earlier in the year that FW are getting their own plastic pipeline in the new production facility is what this announcement refers to, because if it's something along the lines of what you suggest, FW as a venue for cool, interesting, campaign and model-focused products for "vet" gamers will be dead and gone within a year, reduced to an appendage for the main Studio pumping out whatever they're told to or worse, reduced to a mere brand label.

Well, let’s feed in other stuff we know.

First and foremost, we know GW is increasing its production capacity, by extending the Foundry.

That’s underway so far as I’m aware, and may even be completed.

That could mean stuff like weapon expansions for AT and Necromunda heading to plastic. I for one would broadly welcome that, as I prefer plastic to resin.

We also know the Specialist Games stuff has been doing really, really well. Blood Bowl, Necromunda, Adeptus Titanicus. All hit to larger sales than they expected, to the point they retooled AT to plastic.

It could mean that success is seeing SG being split off into its own division, with personnel to match. That could mean FW proper returns to its roots, as ably described elsewhere in this thread.

 Yodhrin wrote:
As far as a lot of us are concerned, what you're suggesting would absolutely be bad for FW. I mean, you realise you're essentially arguing that FW should cease to exist? I can think of few things worse for it.

The whole point of FW is that it exists separate from the main studio, free to pursue oddities and passion projects with an inherently lower sales potential using a production media suited to that lower volume production. There's a case to be made that if one of those passion projects - the HH game for example - becomes more popular than the base remit of the company can support it should be spun off into its own team, but even then that team shouldn't be part of the main Studio, or else it risks losing the very qualities that made it that popular in the first place.

A this point, I'm just desperately hoping that the pretty wild rumour someone was peddling earlier in the year that FW are getting their own plastic pipeline in the new production facility is what this announcement refers to, because if it's something along the lines of what you suggest, FW as a venue for cool, interesting, campaign and model-focused products for "vet" gamers will be dead and gone within a year, reduced to an appendage for the main Studio pumping out whatever they're told to or worse, reduced to a mere brand label.

Well said and well remembered. Ending Forgeworld will be a death knell for many gamers involvement in the GW universes. But, if as you remembered, they are getting expanded production and plastics facilities, well, that is something to be excited about. The potential to switch a lot of the more popular sculpts to plastics will boost 30k no end.

Further integration with or further separation from GW seems sensible.
Due to the plastic production, the current split in product lines is quite odd - you can buy the plastic Blood Bowl teams or Necromunda gangs only via GW, not FW, but FW does sell some products that combine plastic kits with their resin upgrade parts. Half the recently released new characters sculpted for Middle-earth are FW, the other half plastics from GW, while rules for both can be found in the same book (incidentally sold in both webstores; the only shared article bar the starter set for some reason, something which is not the case for the other games from what I can see).
It all seems rather less organized than it could be.

Here's hoping for a revised shipping costs policy (worldwide this time) while they're at it...

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Legio-Custodes-Ares-Gunship-2019

The previewed Ares flyer is up for preorder, and it's 40k rules are available for download. Of note, Saggitarum Custodians are now TROOPS!!!! Thank God, I have 25 of them.

Considering that the Specialist Games are already sold on GW site and most if FW's recent HH stuff has been rubbish, I really don't see much point in FW existing as a separate entity.

Also interesting that there appear to be brand new LOTR models that are "made to order" and only available for one week, don't believe that's ever been done by them before.

Tavis75 wrote:
Also interesting that there appear to be brand new LOTR models that are "made to order" and only available for one week, don't believe that's ever been done by them before.

They're not new - they've been Event Exclusives for a while.

One would hope that maybe FW's retooling might enable them to keep expanding SKU's too... if some of the OOP models could come back that would be hugely appreciated, even if it was occasionally on a MTO model (but hopefully one a bit more regular and predictable than GW's).

beast_gts wrote:

Tavis75 wrote:
Also interesting that there appear to be brand new LOTR models that are "made to order" and only available for one week, don't believe that's ever been done by them before.

They're not new - they've been Event Exclusives for a while.

For a while? These models weren't even known of until a few days ago - aside from Bard, who was shown in an old rulebook but never released at the time.
They are not new sculpts as such, but entirely new releases nonetheless.

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

Tavis75 wrote:
Also interesting that there appear to be brand new LOTR models that are "made to order" and only available for one week, don't believe that's ever been done by them before.

They're not new - they've been Event Exclusives for a while.

For a while? These models weren't even known of until a few days ago - aside from Bard, who was shown in an old rulebook but never released at the time.
They are not new sculpts as such, but entirely new releases nonetheless.

I thought I recognised them, but asked a local Hobbit player as I don't play much - he said they'd been out a while. Their description says "These three miniatures are normally event exclusives, but they are available through our Made to Order service for one week only".

 Crimson wrote:
Considering that the Specialist Games are already sold on GW site and most if FW's recent HH stuff has been rubbish, I really don't see much point in FW existing as a separate entity.

Exactly. Each game obviously gets a project team dedicated to making it happen, and a mixture of plastic and FW models produced for it. The old structure doesn't make sense any more. GW will still make "passion projects" if they make sense, and unlike back in the day they're happy to release ideas with only a handful of units and people can soup them up, so there's no reason the sort of things happening in the Imperial Armour series can't still happen.

HH is the one that's currently suffering but that's because it needs a team and a direction after Alan Bligh's untimely passing.

beast_gts wrote:

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

Tavis75 wrote:
Also interesting that there appear to be brand new LOTR models that are "made to order" and only available for one week, don't believe that's ever been done by them before.

They're not new - they've been Event Exclusives for a while.

For a while? These models weren't even known of until a few days ago - aside from Bard, who was shown in an old rulebook but never released at the time.
They are not new sculpts as such, but entirely new releases nonetheless.

I thought I recognised them, but asked a local Hobbit player as I don't play much - he said they'd been out a while. Their description says "These three miniatures are normally event exclusives, but they are available through our Made to Order service for one week only".

They will apparently be event exclusives from now on (starting at NOVA). Online availability, albeit for a limited time, is a nice option for the many people never attending said events, seems a good move.

Shame they don't have 360 views on the website - both Elves could do with some additional angles to see what they're like.

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

Tavis75 wrote:
Also interesting that there appear to be brand new LOTR models that are "made to order" and only available for one week, don't believe that's ever been done by them before.

They're not new - they've been Event Exclusives for a while.

For a while? These models weren't even known of until a few days ago - aside from Bard, who was shown in an old rulebook but never released at the time.
They are not new sculpts as such, but entirely new releases nonetheless.

I thought I recognised them, but asked a local Hobbit player as I don't play much - he said they'd been out a while. Their description says "These three miniatures are normally event exclusives, but they are available through our Made to Order service for one week only".

They will apparently be event exclusives from now on (starting at NOVA). Online availability, albeit for a limited time, is a nice option for the many people never attending said events, seems a good move.

Shame they don't have 360 views on the website - both Elves could do with some additional angles to see what they're like.

The WarCom article clarifies it - "The three amazing Defenders of Laketown models are available online for one week only! After that, they are going to be event-exclusive models – in fact, they’re available at the NOVA Open this weekend – but if you don’t want to wait until the next event you attend to get your hands on Bard the Bowman, Legolas and Tauriel make sure that you order them now."


Automatically Appended Next Post:
They do look similar to existing sculpts - but I suppose there's only so many ways you can have an Elf shoot a bow...

It’s a shame the two other event exclusive middle-earth packs (Ring bearers and Bilbo) they have at Nova didn’t make it to the Forge World MTO.

 cuda1179 wrote:
Of note, Saggitarum Custodians are now TROOPS!!!! Thank God, I have 25 of them.

That’s awesome.

Aeneades wrote:
It’s a shame the two other event exclusive middle-earth packs (Ring bearers and Bilbo) they have at Nova didn’t make it to the Forge World MTO.

Indeed, had especially hoped for the Ringbearers to be a normal release (they're not quite the same as just a new pose after all).
Given FW's current shipping policy (very expensive when ordering just 1 blister), having spread-out limited time releases is.. not great. Though I'd prefer them to become available in a similar MTO way if the alternative is not at all...
Maybe seeing how the Bard/Tauriel/Legolas kit shifts is a bit of a trial for this system.

They probably got complaints that people couldn't afford all the MTO at once (or GW did) so FW is doing it the other way.

About that Ring Bearer pack. It's got Bilbo, Frodo, Sam and Gollem and... who?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
About that Ring Bearer pack. It's got Bilbo, Frodo, Sam and Gollem and... who?

Isildur.

Apparently the pack doesn’t have Sam as he doesn’t have the ring as an option to take in the game. The other model is old Bilbo instead.

Oh, Bilbo and Old Bilbo? I mean fair enough, but it would've been more fun to have Sam.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Oh, Bilbo and Old Bilbo? I mean fair enough, but it would've been more fun to have Sam.

What is needs is the old "Frodo with the ring" mini.
If you're wondering what that is, it was a scenic base with footprints.

Quick question.
Have they mentioned at all plans for Dark Angels cataphractii shoulder pads?

 cuda1179 wrote:
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Legio-Custodes-Ares-Gunship-2019

The previewed Ares flyer is up for preorder, and it's 40k rules are available for download. Of note, Saggitarum Custodians are now TROOPS!!!! Thank God, I have 25 of them.

Quite a few other changes in those rules, actually.
Adrastus weapons lost overheat.

Adrasite/Pyrithite Custodians: Elite -> Troops
Sagittarum Custodians: Heavy -> Troops
Galatus Dreadnought: +d3 attacks with the warblade instead of extra hits on unmodified sixes
Agamatus Jetbikes: Adrathic Devastator is flat 3 damage
Caladius Grav tank- seems like it got a weapon rebalance. Acellerator cannon dropped to S7 and flat 2 damage to match the telemon version, blaze cannon beam is now D3+3 damage instead of flat 3 and +12" range for both modes

Points changes:
Aquilon +5 per model
Caladius +20
Orion +40
Venatari -8 per model

Telemon Caestus -10/-10
Adrastite Spear -1
Adrastite Bolt Caliver -5
Aracnus Storm Cannon +5
Iliastus Accelerator Culverin +10
Infernus Incinerator -1
Lastrum Bolt cannon -2
Pyrithite Spear -4
Twin Iliastus Accelerator Cannon -10
Twin Las Pulsar -5

Zone mortalis its in last chance to buy!!

Plastic Necromunda terrain incoming?

That would be nice!

Though given the Badzone isn't available (unsure if dropped, or just sold out), could be 2D Necromunda is offski?

Sad to see the Zone Mortalis go, I've never had the chance to play on it and likely never will.

Ain't no party like an un-release party! Hey! Ho!

zamerion wrote:
Zone mortalis its in last chance to buy!!

Plastic Necromunda terrain incoming?

Unsure what to do here. I’ve always wanted an extra set of tiles but if plastic is coming.... these tiles were the best thing I ever bought from FW or GW. Incredibly versatile terrain. I would also be concerned that GW tiles will be plastered in skulls and loose the FW look. The lack of usable doors is all that’s putting me off.

 Knockagh wrote:

zamerion wrote:
Zone mortalis its in last chance to buy!!

Plastic Necromunda terrain incoming?

Unsure what to do here. I’ve always wanted an extra set of tiles but if plastic is coming.... these tiles were the best thing I ever bought from FW or GW. Incredibly versatile terrain. I would also be concerned that GW tiles will be plastered in skulls and loose the FW look. The lack of usable doors is all that’s putting me off.

It is highly unlikely that plastic tiles are on the way. If you want any of these, you best move fast as they're selling out...

Edit - annnnd they've all gone. Blimey...