The Spiritseer wrote:
Random tidbit from the Codex: Prince Yriel's Curse rule now makes him reroll saves of 6 in CC instead of the auto wound.

Ouch. Is he unchanged otherwise?

 Eldarain wrote:

 The Spiritseer wrote:
Random tidbit from the Codex: Prince Yriel's Curse rule now makes him reroll saves of 6 in CC instead of the auto wound.

Ouch. Is he unchanged otherwise?

His spear is now AP3 (used to ignore all armor saves) and can't be thrown anymore. He gets the reroll 1's to wound warlord trait I think.

Why such a nerf? It's not like he was good before.

For 1850 I am thinking like...

Farseer - Jetbike (goes in seer council)

8 warlocks on bikes (3 of them break off for guardian squads IF THEY CAN STILL)

Spirit Seer (goes in wraithguard squad)

5x wraithguard in wave serpent with holofield and vector thrusters

5x wraithguard in wave serpent with holofield and vector thrusters

3x Bikes with a cannon

3x Bikes with a cannon

3x Bikes with a cannon

3x Shining Spears with a exarch with starlance

3x Dark Reapers with flakk

Wraith Knight with suncannon/shield, scatter laser

aegis quadgun

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:

 The Spiritseer wrote:
Random tidbit from the Codex: Prince Yriel's Curse rule now makes him reroll saves of 6 in CC instead of the auto wound.

Ouch. Is he unchanged otherwise?

His spear is now AP3 (used to ignore all armor saves) and can't be thrown anymore. He gets the reroll 1's to wound warlord trait I think.

Yep. But he is 15 points cheaper at least.

@Spirit: Are all Dark Reapers able to get flakk, or just the exarch?

 The Spiritseer wrote:

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:

 The Spiritseer wrote:
Random tidbit from the Codex: Prince Yriel's Curse rule now makes him reroll saves of 6 in CC instead of the auto wound.

Ouch. Is he unchanged otherwise?

His spear is now AP3 (used to ignore all armor saves) and can't be thrown anymore. He gets the reroll 1's to wound warlord trait I think.

Yep. But he is 15 points cheaper at least.

Eye of wrath is the same that's really all that is important, Yriel bomb is alive an well.

After looking at the new Hemlock Wraithfighter at $65 and the Razorwing for $45 and thinking that the Razorwing is a better looking flyer, if I do Eldar flyers, they will be Razorwings with a few wing mods to make it a little less spiky

 Crimson wrote:
Am I correct in assuming that Illic has nothing that could stop the enemy using 'look out sir' to avoid his shots?

More of a question off of this, but I am pretty sure you can't look out sir precision shots...since they are precise and are coming from a sniper rifle....

 Eldarain wrote:
Why release new jetbikes when you can just make them this codexes Grey Hunters ensuring increased sales of a long paid off sculpt.

I see them waiting for sales of GJBs to slow down then drop the Saim Hann supplement with Eldars version of Black Knights and new sculpts to go along with it.

NO U

this would be amazing. New Jetbikes and Shining Spears buffed to Black-Knight levels of OP ness.

How is Eldrad's power selection handled? Does he roll like a level 4 psyker (4 powers), or is he like the old book and he knows 'everything.'

timd wrote:
After looking at the new Hemlock Wraithfighter at $65 and the Razorwing for $45 and thinking that the Razorwing is a better looking flyer, if I do Eldar flyers, they will be Razorwings with a few wing mods to make it a little less spiky

Yeah, I'm planning to do the same.

GTKA666 wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Am I correct in assuming that Illic has nothing that could stop the enemy using 'look out sir' to avoid his shots?

More of a question off of this, but I am pretty sure you can't look out sir precision shots...since they are precise and are coming from a sniper rifle....

Nope. Perfectly free to counter Precision hits with Look out Sir! All Precision does is modify how the wound is allocated, while Look out Sir! only triggers once the wound has been allocated. There's no conflict there.

Which is why, generally speaking, you send the 'precision shot' after the heavy weapons trooper or the melta gunner. That way they don't have someone doing a 'Bodyguard' jump in front of them.

lol you can Jinx a unit more then once, what terrible shame for terminators

Goresaw wrote:
How is Eldrad's power selection handled? Does he roll like a level 4 psyker (4 powers), or is he like the old book and he knows 'everything.'

He has to roll.

That stinks. So eldrad can end up with all those stupid witchfires when you just want doom and fortune.

 Crimson wrote:

timd wrote:
After looking at the new Hemlock Wraithfighter at $65 and the Razorwing for $45 and thinking that the Razorwing is a better looking flyer, if I do Eldar flyers, they will be Razorwings with a few wing mods to make it a little less spiky

Yeah, I'm planning to do the same.

+ 2

Better-jump on that quick before they figure it out.

Goresaw wrote:How is Eldrad's power selection handled? Does he roll like a level 4 psyker (4 powers), or is he like the old book and he knows 'everything.'

He is just a normal psyker now, he is basically just a Farseer with a few unique pieces of wargear. He generates powers as normal and lost his 'cast the same power twice' ability. Still has a 3++ and T4, his Staff is now an AP3 Force weapon but basically he is significantly worse than he used to be, dropped to 205pts but I still don't see many reasons to take him.

Goresaw wrote:
That stinks. So eldrad can end up with all those stupid witchfires when you just want doom and fortune.

Yeah strangely enough the Warlock table is way better than the Farseer table. Death Mission is terrible (funny, but terrible), Executioner is terrible, Eldritch Storm is ok and Mind War is still very unlikely to do anything of note. At the moment I am thinking you roll 1-2 rolls on the Seer table and hope you get Fortune or Doom, swapping for Guide if you don't, and then roll on Divination for your last 1-2 powers (since literally all of them apart from maybe the re-roll everything for the psyker are good).

Lansirill wrote:@Spirit: Are all Dark Reapers able to get flakk, or just the exarch?

Just the Exarch, hence why I am worried about how Eldar will deal with large number of fliers (the Crimson Hunter can come on and demolish 1, but he has no durability and will die as soon as another flier looks at it funny). The only other place you can get Flakk is on the EML for War Walkers, EML for Guardians or other vehicles are stuck with normal ammo. Rather than simply give Reapers an EML they have their own special version of it. So for 30pts base they get the S5 AP3 Heavy 2 ammo and for 8pts they get the S8 AP3 Heavy 1 ammo (i.e a normal missile). The Exarch can pay to get a proper missile launcher like he was before, which has Krak/Plasma still, and can then buy flakk ammo on top of that. Alteratively you can just give him the S8 ammo (and probably the Night Vision upgrade, important for long ranged units) and call it a day.

Theorius wrote:
For 1850 I am thinking like...

Farseer - Jetbike (goes in seer council)

8 warlocks on bikes (3 of them break off for guardian squads IF THEY CAN STILL)

Spirit Seer (goes in wraithguard squad)

5x wraithguard in wave serpent with holofield and vector thrusters

5x wraithguard in wave serpent with holofield and vector thrusters

3x Bikes with a cannon

3x Bikes with a cannon

3x Bikes with a cannon

3x Shining Spears with a exarch with starlance

3x Dark Reapers with flakk

Wraith Knight with suncannon/shield, scatter laser

aegis quadgun

Well aside from the issue that Reapers can't get Flakk your points are just a tad off, that is close to 2k not including the Shining Spears (since I can't remember the base cost for them). The Wraithknight in that loadout is 300pts and the Wraithguard + Serpents are another 700 odd.

Mr.Church13 wrote:

 Magc8Ball wrote:

 undertow wrote:

Nvs wrote:


It's specifically mentioned in the Eldar codex that you choose warlord traits, then place your warlocks, then roll for abilities.

Well, seeing as how the codex hasn't been released yet, it's a bit difficult to see what is specifically mentioned isn't it?

Not that hard, really.

It's pretty amazing that you can tell what rules Kelly wrote from the rules Ward forced him to add in or change. This forced "cinematic" with warlocks reminds me of the same descrepency I see in the Helldrake rules coming out of left field and not fitting in design with the rest of Kelly's CSM dex.

What makes you think that Matt Ward, a much tarnished junior codex writer, has any influence on anything Phil Kelly, a senior and respected codex writer, has? If anything you've got the roles reversed. In any case, without the Helldrake, codex CSM would have bombed hard.

Does the spirit seerer have to be in the squad for WG to become troops, or does just having one enable them to be unlocked?

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

Mr.Church13 wrote:

 Magc8Ball wrote:

 undertow wrote:

Nvs wrote:


It's specifically mentioned in the Eldar codex that you choose warlord traits, then place your warlocks, then roll for abilities.

Well, seeing as how the codex hasn't been released yet, it's a bit difficult to see what is specifically mentioned isn't it?

Not that hard, really.

It's pretty amazing that you can tell what rules Kelly wrote from the rules Ward forced him to add in or change. This forced "cinematic" with warlocks reminds me of the same descrepency I see in the Helldrake rules coming out of left field and not fitting in design with the rest of Kelly's CSM dex.

What makes you think that Matt Ward, a much tarnished junior codex writer, has any influence on anything Phil Kelly, a senior and respected codex writer, has? If anything you've got the roles reversed. In any case, without the Helldrake, codex CSM would have bombed hard.

Becasue Ward, as much as I hate it, was completely in charge of writing the 6th edition ruleset. His power codexes sell more wich in GW's eyes makes him the go to guy for codexes ((aka more sales makes you a better rules writer) Which in and of itself is actually pretty good business logic). The part about without the Helldrake just confirms my suspicion as to Wards influence on other dexes. GW saw a balanced yet underperforimng (In their eyes) codex and had Ward step in to do what Ward does best, Break it. That thing is such a hard sharp left turn from a Kelly dex theres no way he wrote that entry let alone costed or FAQed it. I'm betting that any initial draft of the Eldar codex has significantly less "Cinematic" elements in it because of the love Kelly shows for eldar is just thrown out the window for certain things which if not told to by Ward (Creator and Showrunner of 6th) to add more "Cinematic" then who?

Wards in charge. Whether you believe it or not is irrelevant, because he'll continue to push the idiotic concepts he invented further and further as 6th continues.

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Does the spirit seerer have to be in the squad for WG to become troops, or does just having one enable them to be unlocked?

As Force Org chart modifications are highly unlikely to occur during play, and the Spirit Seer is an IC, I think it's safe to assume merely existing unlocks Troop WG. Now if it's not actually Troops, but merely scoring, that's a different story.

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Does the spirit seerer have to be in the squad for WG to become troops, or does just having one enable them to be unlocked?

Death Speaker:
If your army contains a Spiritseer, Wraithguardscand Wraithblades are Troop choices rather than Elites.

 The Spiritseer wrote:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Does the spirit seerer have to be in the squad for WG to become troops, or does just having one enable them to be unlocked?

Death Speaker:
If your army contains a Spiritseer, Wraithguardscand Wraithblades are Troop choices rather than Elites.

This is great news! (Not sarcastically for once ) is wraithsight gone?

 Eldarain wrote:

 The Spiritseer wrote:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Does the spirit seerer have to be in the squad for WG to become troops, or does just having one enable them to be unlocked?

Death Speaker:
If your army contains a Spiritseer, Wraithguardscand Wraithblades are Troop choices rather than Elites.

This is great news! (Not sarcastically for once ) is wraithsight gone?

Yes, completely gone. Which is a good thing too since Warlocks can't be attached to Wraithguard anymore.

I'm LOLing at all the people complaining about having to roll for psychic powers instead of just picking them. Seriously, how can you have NOT been prepared for that? 5 new codexes in, and every single one of them that had psykers had to roll for their powers.

Its not "cinematic", its a game mechanic that was established in the main rule book. It screws over everybody, not just Eldar. If an immortal greater daemon of Tzeentch has to randomly determine powers, an Eldar farseer and warlock should have to as well. Just be glad you have some good ones to roll, unlike most of the Chaos powers.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
I'm LOLing at all the people complaining about having to roll for psychic powers instead of just picking them. Seriously, how can you have NOT been prepared for that? 5 new codexes in, and every single one of them that had psykers had to roll for their powers.

Its not "cinematic", its a game mechanic that was established in the main rule book. It screws over everybody, not just Eldar. If an immortal greater daemon of Tzeentch has to randomly determine powers, an Eldar farseer and warlock should have to as well. Just be glad you have some good ones to roll, unlike most of the Chaos powers.

I think it's more shock than anything. People are used to Eldar being dreadful without fortune and guide so the thought of playing without them is scary. Guide isn't a big deal, but fortune potentially being gone is too much of a leap to theorycraft. I'm sure once people start actually playing the book they'll be fine. We may even see people playing without farseers at all. Unlikely of course, but we'll see.

Do the wraith constructs have fleet?

Nvs wrote:

I think it's more shock than anything. People are used to Eldar being dreadful without fortune and guide so the thought of playing without them is scary. Guide isn't a big deal, but fortune potentially being gone is too much of a leap to theorycraft. I'm sure once people start actually playing the book they'll be fine. We may even see people playing without farseers at all. Unlikely of course, but we'll see.

I'm predicting that Spiritseers and Illic will be the new hotness in HQ selection now.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
I'm LOLing at all the people complaining about having to roll for psychic powers instead of just picking them. Seriously, how can you have NOT been prepared for that? 5 new codexes in, and every single one of them that had psykers had to roll for their powers.

Its not "cinematic", its a game mechanic that was established in the main rule book. It screws over everybody, not just Eldar. If an immortal greater daemon of Tzeentch has to randomly determine powers, an Eldar farseer and warlock should have to as well. Just be glad you have some good ones to roll, unlike most of the Chaos powers.

Eldar, even with all the new and shiny, still live and die by their psychic powers to nerf or take that away from an army still so dependent on them is devastating. Random was never good for any army from the start. And it really is the only thing claimed to be "Cinematic" in 6th. Cinematic was just a poor man's balancing act.

 Eldarain wrote:
Do the wraith constructs have fleet?

No. They pretty much have to get a serpent.

Illric is in the HQ department? Well, that isnt good. Thought maybe he'd be un upgrade for Pathfinders. Avatar and Spiritseerer for me - short term anyway.

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Illric is in the HQ department? Well, that isnt good. Thought maybe he'd be un upgrade for Pathfinders. Avatar and Spiritseerer for me - short term anyway.

Blasphemer!

Illic in HQ is awesome for anyone who wants to do things like, y'know...

An Alaitoc Ranger contingent aiding the Imperial Guard, fighting alongside Corsair bands of Dark Eldar, etc.

Goresaw wrote:That stinks. So eldrad can end up with all those stupid witchfires when you just want doom and fortune.

D6Damager wrote:

Nvs wrote:

I think it's more shock than anything. People are used to Eldar being dreadful without fortune and guide so the thought of playing without them is scary. Guide isn't a big deal, but fortune potentially being gone is too much of a leap to theorycraft. I'm sure once people start actually playing the book they'll be fine. We may even see people playing without farseers at all. Unlikely of course, but we'll see.

I'm predicting that Spiritseers and Illic will be the new hotness in HQ selection now.

Spiritseers can't take jetbikes, which are almost certainly the best troops in the book. Since all the powers follow normal rulebook limitations and require LOS I expect you will only see Spiritseers in Wraith based foot lists. Illic is the basis for Ranger based lists, but is more likely to be abused to dump 10 D Scythe Wraithguard 1" away from the enemy with Infiltrate. Despite the loss of Warding and set powers Farseers are still probably the best TAC option, Mastery 3 for 100pts is very nice (considering they used to be 150 odd for Mastery 2).

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
I'm LOLing at all the people complaining about having to roll for psychic powers instead of just picking them. Seriously, how can you have NOT been prepared for that? 5 new codexes in, and every single one of them that had psykers had to roll for their powers.

Its not "cinematic", its a game mechanic that was established in the main rule book. It screws over everybody, not just Eldar. If an immortal greater daemon of Tzeentch has to randomly determine powers, an Eldar farseer and warlock should have to as well. Just be glad you have some good ones to roll, unlike most of the Chaos powers.

I'm mostly in disbelief that people are complaining about how bad the Wave Serpents are when they're a better MBT than my Hammerheads. The transport capacity is just icing.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
I'm LOLing at all the people complaining about having to roll for psychic powers instead of just picking them. Seriously, how can you have NOT been prepared for that? 5 new codexes in, and every single one of them that had psykers had to roll for their powers.

Its not "cinematic", its a game mechanic that was established in the main rule book. It screws over everybody, not just Eldar. If an immortal greater daemon of Tzeentch has to randomly determine powers, an Eldar farseer and warlock should have to as well. Just be glad you have some good ones to roll, unlike most of the Chaos powers.

Last I checked Eldar are the most powerful race in psychic prowess, so with that in mind and the fact that all psychers have grown up learning them, people would argue that they should be allowed to pick them.

A counter argument is yes they lived their life studying certain powers, but we don't know who studied what (and by going through the fact that not everyone studies the same thing) and hence the randomness.

It is a matter of fluff and with that both arguments are viable. Seeing as how everyone is used to picking fortune and not having to roll for it is something we are going to have to get used to. Also restring where we can put warlocks is also a downer, but is more going into the Ultwe theme so I really can't complain there either.

RogueRegault wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
I'm LOLing at all the people complaining about having to roll for psychic powers instead of just picking them. Seriously, how can you have NOT been prepared for that? 5 new codexes in, and every single one of them that had psykers had to roll for their powers.

Its not "cinematic", its a game mechanic that was established in the main rule book. It screws over everybody, not just Eldar. If an immortal greater daemon of Tzeentch has to randomly determine powers, an Eldar farseer and warlock should have to as well. Just be glad you have some good ones to roll, unlike most of the Chaos powers.

I'm mostly in disbelief that people are complaining about how bad the Wave Serpents are when they're a better MBT than my Hammerheads. The transport capacity is just icing.

Er what? A twin linked Bright Lance/Scatter Laser/Starcannon is nowhere near as good as a Railgun or Ion Cannon, honestly the SMS you get as a secondary weapon is on par with the main gun of a Serpent. On top of that you get AV13 front and Markerlight support to ruin people.

RogueRegault wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
I'm LOLing at all the people complaining about having to roll for psychic powers instead of just picking them. Seriously, how can you have NOT been prepared for that? 5 new codexes in, and every single one of them that had psykers had to roll for their powers.

Its not "cinematic", its a game mechanic that was established in the main rule book. It screws over everybody, not just Eldar. If an immortal greater daemon of Tzeentch has to randomly determine powers, an Eldar farseer and warlock should have to as well. Just be glad you have some good ones to roll, unlike most of the Chaos powers.

I'm mostly in disbelief that people are complaining about how bad the Wave Serpents are when they're a better MBT than my Hammerheads. The transport capacity is just icing.

Yeah, I've always felt that if you look at the Wave Serpent as a Transport, and it falls short.
Look at it as a Tank that you can take what... 12 of that can be equipped for any task you care to ask, they're pretty freaking awesome!
(In the 'old' codex, it was 14. I would be tempted to make a list of maxed out Wave Serpents as a 'tank company' for giggles.)

So...we'd be able to cast from inside transports now. At least at the transport and the occupants.

Yay for a fortuned Wave serpent with a 4+ coversave, that simply cannot be penned.

So i'm cautiously excited about the entire codex so far.

While I wish we got some skyfire and interceptor (sersiously, did they just give it ALL to Tau?), it looks good. Not different enough from the old codex however, which is what worries me.

Dissappointed with the wraithknight and crimson hunter. To get any relyable anti air (mainly for against IG, i'll have to take a farseer and actively HOPE for scriers gaze). The runes of fate powers look fun however. Eldrad is still a boss.

Bright Lance Walkers will take care of my anti tank. And then they can run behind cover. Swooping Hawks got a nice buff, but I was really hoping they'd get some way to attack flyers. We got the obligatory flyer, but nothing that is really NEW to combat them. Giving the guys with missle launchers the option to take AA missles. Good stuff. Genius.

Fast attack looks to be the crowded spot this time around. Spears, Hawks, Spiders, Hutners, even VYPERS vying to be taken. My initial tourney lists will have 2 hunters and some hawks. Because I love the models for both.

I like the buff to guardians. I was fielding 2-3 units in the old dex. Now they're actually justified.

My main qualm is that the new stuff is all too expensive. AA for that many points? A wraithknight is HOW much? 160 points for Av10?

My local meta is running a 2500 point tournament in a couple of months. Maybe then, I will get to field all the stuff I want to.

As more and more information continues to be posted I have come to the conclusion that whoever wrote the Codex has not bothered to read the main rulebook or doesn't care.

Tho I might discover that I'm wrong once I get the book I'm really distressed not because units are being changed or nerfed but rather because they are receiving rules and equipment that are moot for their intended role.

Wraithknights with 4 weapons when they can only fire 2 per MC rules and +1 to S on a MC that it's already S 10. Precision shot on a unit that already has precision shot due to the weapon they use. Twinlink weapons on BS 5 exarchs...

I'm disliking this codex so far, again not because it nerfs or changes things but because apparently the changes were made just for the shake of changing stuff or as people say cinematics.

M.

It's a Phil Kelly book.

Does that mean that he is so ignorant of the main rules he writes codexes for or that he makes up stuff as he goes?

M.

Belly wrote:


My main qualm is that the new stuff is all too expensive. AA for that many points? A wraithknight is HOW much? 160 points for Av10?

compare the point cost of all the weapons on the vehicles before 6th and now compare them after. You will find that they didn't go up all that much. If anything it is going by the fluff in saying that we can't field as many people because we know that our race is dying, meaning more expensive the unit= less things we can field. Nothing to complain over other than they are following the fluff.

It means that Phil Kelly is Phil Kelly.

He is one of the major driving forces behind "cinematicity".

The Wraithknight being able to equip 4 guns when it can only fire 2 is really strange.

Not as bad as the mess that Burning Chariot was, but still hard to figure why it was done that way.

 Kanluwen wrote:
It means that Phil Kelly is Phil Kelly.

He is one of the major driving forces behind "cinematicity".

So we are stuck with writers that are going to make silly rules just for the shake of it.
"Hey sniper rifles are cinematic, let's give all Dreadnoughts one and call it a day"
I would like a little bit more of thought in my army rules, thanks.

M.

 Eldarain wrote:
The Wraithknight being able to equip 4 guns when it can only fire 2 is really strange.

Not as bad as the mess that Burning Chariot was, but still hard to figure why it was done that way.

Maybe our friend with the codex can shed light on the subject. *looks over in his direction*

The Wraithlord could always have been equipped that way. It is just following an established trend.

 Miguelsan wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It means that Phil Kelly is Phil Kelly.

He is one of the major driving forces behind "cinematicity".

So we are stuck with writers that are going to make silly rules just for the shake of it.
"Hey sniper rifles are cinematic, let's give all Dreadnoughts one and call it a day"
I would like a little bit more of thought in my army rules, thanks.

M.

Something tells me that if the Wraithknight doesn't sell well enough it will get a FAQ that allows it to fire 4 weapons at once due to spirit stone technology. Remember, GW really has no sales department nor does it have a marketing department. The writers + modelers are the primary sales people, which is why I find it highly confusing why the Wraithknight doesn't have amazing rules considering the new wraithguard do.

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's a Phil Kelly book.

This. I really don't understand the Phil Kelly love. His codexes always lead to Spam armies since there is always horrible internal balance.

Space Wolves = Missile launcher Spam

Dark Eldar = Venom Spam

Chaos Space Marines = Heldrake Spam plus pick either plaguemarines or noisemarine Spam.

Chaos Daemons = Flying Monstrous Creature Spam aka "Flying Circus".

For Eldar I'm predicting jetbike and wraith____s Spam.

But in the WL case it was 2 template weapons for close range anti-infantry work and up to 2 ranged weapons for AT. The WK doesn't.
I mean a mix of 2 of the new WG template weapons plus 2 "big" cannons would have made sense but as is nobody in their right mind will give the WK secondary weapons that can't fire.

M.

GTKA666 wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
The Wraithknight being able to equip 4 guns when it can only fire 2 is really strange.

Not as bad as the mess that Burning Chariot was, but still hard to figure why it was done that way.

Maybe our friend with the codex can shed light on the subject. *looks over in his direction*

There is nothing at all on the Wraithknight in the codex that allows it to fire more than 2 weapons as per MC rules. You're spending points for (dubious) versatility.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
If an immortal greater daemon of Tzeentch has to randomly determine powers, an Eldar farseer and warlock should have to as well.

Uh, your decision to choose the Chaos God who supports randomness as an example might not have been the best one I understand that Tzeentch is all psyker but he's also seen as the god of randomness because everything must change, even if it's against his benefit.

 felixander wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
If an immortal greater daemon of Tzeentch has to randomly determine powers, an Eldar farseer and warlock should have to as well.

Uh, your decision to choose the Chaos God who supports randomness as an example might not have been the best one I understand that Tzeentch is all psyker but he's also seen as the god of randomness because everything must change, even if it's against his benefit.

Or.. could always just not defend the stupidity that is random psychic powers and go back to what every other book did prior to 6th edition.. you pick them. The randomness in this edition is already beyond the level of absurdity that is normally expected. Add on top of that silly abilities like Assassin and Disarm which add even MORE random rolls to the game.

 Kirasu wrote:

 Miguelsan wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It means that Phil Kelly is Phil Kelly.

He is one of the major driving forces behind "cinematicity".

So we are stuck with writers that are going to make silly rules just for the shake of it.
"Hey sniper rifles are cinematic, let's give all Dreadnoughts one and call it a day"
I would like a little bit more of thought in my army rules, thanks.

M.

Something tells me that if the Wraithknight doesn't sell well enough it will get a FAQ that allows it to fire 4 weapons at once due to spirit stone technology. Remember, GW really has no sales department nor does it have a marketing department. The writers + modelers are the primary sales people, which is why I find it highly confusing why the Wraithknight doesn't have amazing rules considering the new wraithguard do.

They better get a handle on things quick then or they'll be edged out by PP.

GW needs to go back to real balance instead of 'cinematics', they need to balance the game around a smaller point value so people don't need to choose between college and toy soldiers, and they need to have a team of people work on their rules instead of deligating one writer to one book. I really wish this game was tournament caliber but it's simply not. Not sure it ever was. There are ways to make competitive and balanced rules and still be fun.

One of the first things people ask these days is who's writing their book. If it's Ward they'll know they'll have a top tier book with crap stories. If it's kelly they know they'll have a bottom tier book with no versatility but intact background. Vetock is in the middle but more heavily inspired by Ward it seems.

It's bad when a book isn't even officially released and people are begging for the helldrake treatment.

 Kirasu wrote:

Or.. could always just not defend the stupidity that is random psychic powers and go back to what every other book did prior to 6th edition.. you pick them. The randomness in this edition is already beyond the level of absurdity that is normally expected. Add on top of that silly abilities like Assassin and Disarm which add even MORE random rolls to the game.

I find the randomness is just an excuse for sloppy design and avoidance of costing things appropriately. Random warlord traits, random terrain effects, random psychic powers, etc... When too much is random, it throws planning out the window.

As for the Wraithknight issue, the problem is GW's studio playtesting, where I think the designers go by what they intended rather than what is written. Wasn't that the case for the Tyranid Mawloc when it was first released with rules that as written could not actually do what the designers intended? Without enough outside sources and opinions to playtest and break the system, they don't pick up on loopholes big enough to drive a truck through.

If it is true the Wraithknight can only fire 2 weapons, then paying points for all its other weapon options is utterly pointless. Either 2 arm weapons and no shoulder, or 1 arm + 1 shoulder + the shield then. Anything else would be paying for weapons that cannot be fired.

Nvs wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:

 Miguelsan wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It means that Phil Kelly is Phil Kelly.

He is one of the major driving forces behind "cinematicity".

So we are stuck with writers that are going to make silly rules just for the shake of it.
"Hey sniper rifles are cinematic, let's give all Dreadnoughts one and call it a day"
I would like a little bit more of thought in my army rules, thanks.

M.

Something tells me that if the Wraithknight doesn't sell well enough it will get a FAQ that allows it to fire 4 weapons at once due to spirit stone technology. Remember, GW really has no sales department nor does it have a marketing department. The writers + modelers are the primary sales people, which is why I find it highly confusing why the Wraithknight doesn't have amazing rules considering the new wraithguard do.

They better get a handle on things quick then or they'll be edged out by PP.

GW needs to go back to real balance instead of 'cinematics', they need to balance the game around a smaller point value so people don't need to choose between college and toy soldiers, and they need to have a team of people work on their rules instead of deligating one writer to one book. I really wish this game was tournament caliber but it's simply not. Not sure it ever was. There are ways to make competitive and balanced rules and still be fun.

One of the first things people ask these days is who's writing their book. If it's Ward they'll know they'll have a top tier book with crap stories. If it's kelly they know they'll have a bottom tier book with no versatility but intact background. Vetock is in the middle but more heavily inspired by Ward it seems.

It's bad when a book isn't even officially released and people are begging for the helldrake treatment.

LOL, GW never had or cared about "balance". They care about selling minis. As long as the investors are seeing profits, that's all that matters. To GW, that is. As for getting beat out by PP, I would laugh but I don't think that will happen. At least the 40K players I know think WarmaHordes is a stupid game with crappy models. But, to each their own.

GTKA666 wrote:

Belly wrote:


My main qualm is that the new stuff is all too expensive. AA for that many points? A wraithknight is HOW much? 160 points for Av10?

compare the point cost of all the weapons on the vehicles before 6th and now compare them after. You will find that they didn't go up all that much. If anything it is going by the fluff in saying that we can't field as many people because we know that our race is dying, meaning more expensive the unit= less things we can field. Nothing to complain over other than they are following the fluff.

No, I get the way they've structured weapon prices. That's fine. I LIKE that for anything that's not anti-air. But an EML is 30 points to put one on a war walker with flakk missles. Put on a SL for TL, and you're looking an 95 points EACH, which is about the best AA we've got. (That isn't the Crimson hunter). My biggest qualm with the old codex was a complete lack of Anti air. Now, I can buy a single flakk missle launcher for 30 points. And put it on a 60 point open topped Av10 model. Or pay 160 points for a crimson hunter, and pray I get to go second.

Not only that, but dragons lost crack shot and tank hunters, for quadgunning. The best AA we can likely use is a squad of reapers on a quadgun. And that's just terrible. I'll probably just end up using SL/BL war walkers, and praying for 6's.

I like most of the changes made. But I just can't go past the same glaring deficiencies the old codex had.

@Belly. Remember that all powers require LOS unless stated otherwise now, so yes you can cast from inside a transport, but not on anything other than the transport (which is better than the stupid FAQ ruling, but not as good as last edition).

The Wraithknight is still 2 BS4 S10 AP2 shots that will likely fire the entire game (you are fast enough to avoid things you don't want to fight, and unless you walk into rapid fire Plasma range of an entire army you should live through most games) and it has reasonable combat punch as well (has to pick its fights it doesn't care about power weapons so much as it cares about high S). If the 4 weapons thing gets fixed then it will be the go to heavy support anti tank option, until then its still usable. I completely agree about the playtesting thing, there is literally no reason to ever buy extra weapons you can never fire. I guess its possible that at some point in development it was a walker (vehicle) as well, which would have let it fire everything. I'm surprised both it and the Wraithlord didn't get something in this regard, since the Wraithlord used to have a special rule letting it fire more weapons anyway (to put it on par with Dreads at the time).

At the moment I am thinking just run a single Crimson Hunter and pick your targets. The only truely bad matchup 1 v 1 is the Vendetta, against Drakes you can Vector Dance near your edge to avoid the Vector Strike alpha. It will do terribly against Necron fliers because they will always outnumber you, but has a pretty good chance of one shotting any flyer including the Stormraven which is worth bringing imo.

How did Hawks get a buff? Sure they are cheaper, but they are otherwise almost identical from what I can see. They don't scatter, but they have terrible damage output and a 4+ save - they are outclassed completely by Spiders.

Heavy is FAR more crowed than Fast, both in total number of options and viable options. Fast has the fliers (both hit hard in their specific role), Spiders and maybe Vypers as good options. In heavy literally everything is a viable options imo, Reapers are more flexible (anti tank as well as anti MEQ), Prism and Night Spinner got better, Wraithlord got better, Wraithknight is expensive but viable (will be better if they fix the too many weapons issue), Walkers are still fragile but good and even the Support weapons seem ok given they are 90pts for 3.

Well the buff across the board to WS4/BS4/I5 accounts for most of the price increases, but they generally aren't that bad. The units which stand out as first choice options are the ones which have gotten better with a price drop, like Jetbikes and Warp Spiders.

Nocturnus wrote:

LOL, GW never had or cared about "balance". They care about selling minis. As long as the investors are seeing profits, that's all that matters. To GW, that is. As for getting beat out by PP, I would laugh but I don't think that will happen. At least the 40K players I know think WarmaHordes is a stupid game with crappy models. But, to each their own.

But is it too much to ask that at least they follow the current set of rules without coming up with useless stuff? If sniper rifles have a rule that confers precision shot to its user, why rangers (apparently might be wrong) have a special rule that gives precision shot?

And I forgot, if the point is selling new stuff why the HS slot is full to the brim with 8 units and there are only 4 in the Elite slot plus one that currently pointless (and one of those can be taken as troops) is there another army with such a melee in the HS slot?

M.

So with all this hate being said, can someone tell me anything they like with the new codex?

IMHO, I find the codex reinforces as far as I understand the basic concept of eldar, they can dish out the pain but cannot take it.

Powerguy wrote:


How did Hawks get a buff? Sure they are cheaper, but they are otherwise almost identical from what I can see. They don't scatter, but they have terrible damage output and a 4+ save - they are outclassed completely by Spiders.

They're cheap as chips for a unit that can just plonk down onto an objective on turn 5!

When they come down, their grenade pack is now AP4, ignores cover (tau pathfinders anyone?). Their weapons are now assault 3, and they get that battle trance to spread out after striking in. My main use for them is to DS in, get rid of pathfinders, or anything that's manning the quad gun. Now my crimson hunters can come in without being intercepted.

 Miguelsan wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:

LOL, GW never had or cared about "balance". They care about selling minis. As long as the investors are seeing profits, that's all that matters. To GW, that is. As for getting beat out by PP, I would laugh but I don't think that will happen. At least the 40K players I know think WarmaHordes is a stupid game with crappy models. But, to each their own.

But is it too much to ask that at least they follow the current set of rules without coming up with useless stuff? If sniper rifles have a rule that confers precision shot to its user, why rangers (apparently might be wrong) have a special rule that gives precision shot?

M.

Do they come with Pistols?

Maybe it's there in case you want to charge with your Rangers!

I knew I was doing something wrong

Tho in the last game I played my Pathfinders were charged by two surviving DE trueborn, one died to overwatch and the other was clobbered by the might of our HtH.

M.

I've seen so many drama queens - I can't believe people are saying the codex is a nerf, buffs are everywhere .
I saw the same thing with CSM and Daemons; just because the army isn't obviously unbalanced like GK doesn't mean they are crap

Crazyterran wrote:

 Miguelsan wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:

LOL, GW never had or cared about "balance". They care about selling minis. As long as the investors are seeing profits, that's all that matters. To GW, that is. As for getting beat out by PP, I would laugh but I don't think that will happen. At least the 40K players I know think WarmaHordes is a stupid game with crappy models. But, to each their own.

But is it too much to ask that at least they follow the current set of rules without coming up with useless stuff? If sniper rifles have a rule that confers precision shot to its user, why rangers (apparently might be wrong) have a special rule that gives precision shot?

M.

Do they come with Pistols?

Maybe it's there in case you want to charge with your Rangers!

I think you are mixing up Rangers and Pathfinders. Rangers are 12pts for a BS4 Sniper Rifle (which has Precision). Pathfinders are unlocked by the Ranger HQ character, 12(ish) pt upgrade to Rangers and ALL their shots are Precision (same as the Ranger character).

@Belly. I guess you can get some milage out of them but you can't yo-yo them anymore. You aren't going to reliably kill off anything manning a Quad Gun anyway (cause they can see it coming and put something slightly more durable on it anyway), you are always better off just blasting the Quad Gun turn 1.

Powerguy wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:

 Miguelsan wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:

LOL, GW never had or cared about "balance". They care about selling minis. As long as the investors are seeing profits, that's all that matters. To GW, that is. As for getting beat out by PP, I would laugh but I don't think that will happen. At least the 40K players I know think WarmaHordes is a stupid game with crappy models. But, to each their own.

But is it too much to ask that at least they follow the current set of rules without coming up with useless stuff? If sniper rifles have a rule that confers precision shot to its user, why rangers (apparently might be wrong) have a special rule that gives precision shot?

M.

Do they come with Pistols?

Maybe it's there in case you want to charge with your Rangers!

I think you are mixing up Rangers and Pathfinders. Rangers are 12pts for a BS4 Sniper Rifle (which has Precision). Pathfinders are unlocked by the Ranger HQ character, 12(ish) pt upgrade to Rangers and ALL their shots are Precision (same as the Ranger character).

But what's the point of the rule? it's akin to giving a lascannon to SM assault squads just in case they want to camp an objective. That's not the purpose of the squad.

M.

 Miguelsan wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:

LOL, GW never had or cared about "balance". They care about selling minis. As long as the investors are seeing profits, that's all that matters. To GW, that is. As for getting beat out by PP, I would laugh but I don't think that will happen. At least the 40K players I know think WarmaHordes is a stupid game with crappy models. But, to each their own.

But is it too much to ask that at least they follow the current set of rules without coming up with useless stuff? If sniper rifles have a rule that confers precision shot to its user, why rangers (apparently might be wrong) have a special rule that gives precision shot?

And I forgot, if the point is selling new stuff why the HS slot is full to the brim with 8 units and there are only 4 in the Elite slot plus one that currently pointless (and one of those can be taken as troops) is there another army with such a melee in the HS slot?

M.

Oh I agree completely. Giving Farseer's a spell that hits at S3 but has Fleshbane? Kind of redundant, like a lot of things. However, I don't want to be overly negative. I like some of the changes and the stuff I don't like, I won't run. Flyers are glass cannons. They look mean on paper but they're so damn fragile. as for 8 HS options, again, I agree. Break that crap up. I am thinking people are disappointed because a lot of the rumored rules aren't in here(i.e. Autarchs making aspects scoring units). I guess that's the problem with rumors and the choke hold GW has on releasing any info about upcoming releases.

I see reapers being a good answer for quad gun removal.

Eldar, even with all the new and shiny, still live and die by their psychic powers to nerf or take that away from an army still so dependent on them is devastating.

I think the way the Eldar codex is now...I think that they are built with needing less reliance on psychic powers. The increase to BS 4 for all vehicles and guardians bears that out. Additionally, the buff to scatter lasers means less guide is needed.

 Khaine wrote:
I've seen so many drama queens - I can't believe people are saying the codex is a nerf, buffs are everywhere .
I saw the same thing with CSM and Daemons; just because the army isn't obviously unbalanced like GK doesn't mean they are crap

Or Necrons...

Heldrake spam are going to eat this army alive. Which saddens me. I finally had to break down and buy one for my CSM. I tried to resist, but damn...

@Nocturnus We are in agreement there.

I'm not disappointed at the changes or saying that Eldar have been nerfed, the stuff that angers me is that the codex seems at places like a rush job where little afterthought was given at rules and playtesting was scant.

M.

Powerguy wrote:

@Belly. I guess you can get some milage out of them but you can't yo-yo them anymore. You aren't going to reliably kill off anything manning a Quad Gun anyway (cause they can see it coming and put something slightly more durable on it anyway), you are always better off just blasting the Quad Gun turn 1.

I'm almost specifically thinking of a IG army. For them, Ap4 Ignores cover is almost certain death.

I will field spiders eventually. But from the outset, I much prefer hawks.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nocturnus wrote:

Heldrake spam are going to eat this army alive. Which saddens me. I finally had to break down and buy one for my CSM. I tried to resist, but damn...

I found helldrakes to not be too scary in the old codex. This one makes them mincemeat if you field crimson hunters.

They can't be vector struck if you're playing right, which is sticking to board edges and vector dancing. And they have 4 Str 8 shots, which can almost always be directed at rear armour. They're sitting-turkeys, if you will. CSM are the one army I don't fear with this new codex. Tau on the otherhand...

 Miguelsan wrote:
As more and more information continues to be posted I have come to the conclusion that whoever wrote the Codex has not bothered to read the main rulebook or doesn't care.

Tho I might discover that I'm wrong once I get the book I'm really distressed not because units are being changed or nerfed but rather because they are receiving rules and equipment that are moot for their intended role.

Wraithknights with 4 weapons when they can only fire 2 per MC rules and +1 to S on a MC that it's already S 10. Precision shot on a unit that already has precision shot due to the weapon they use. Twinlink weapons on BS 5 exarchs...

I'm disliking this codex so far, again not because it nerfs or changes things but because apparently the changes were made just for the shake of changing stuff or as people say cinematics.

M.

Looking at the codex, I think the problem with the Wraithknight stems from the fact that the model they first put out there had 4 weapons on it. That was dumb because it's not effective rules-wise. Here are some legal builds that make sense:

Glaive and shield, 2 shoulder weapons. Assault stuff, still have some firepower.
One arm cannon, shield, one shoulder weapon. The shoulder weapon is probably a scatter laser so that you can twin-link the main gun using the Laser Lock rule. You still have a shield for extra defense.
Two main guns, no shoulder guns. Maximum firepower, move and shoot at full effect. The shoulder guns are very expensive, it's pretty clear to me that there wasn't an intent that you take two main guns and two shoulder guns. GW just did a bad job communicating, as usual.

What do people think of 1 Suncannon, 1 Lance thingy, one scatter laser for the wraithknight? You always use the SL then have the option to fire one of the other big guns as twin linked. It gives the WK a dual purpose, which, for its points cost it better be.

How do I delete a post?

 D6Damager wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's a Phil Kelly book.

This. I really don't understand the Phil Kelly love. His codexes always lead to Spam armies since there is always horrible internal balance.

Space Wolves = Missile launcher Spam

Dark Eldar = Venom Spam

Chaos Space Marines = Heldrake Spam plus pick either plaguemarines or noisemarine Spam.

Chaos Daemons = Flying Monstrous Creature Spam aka "Flying Circus".

For Eldar I'm predicting jetbike and wraith____s Spam.

In defense of Mr. Kelly, Daemon Flying Circus builds were actually better in the older codex. I won more games by larger margins with more FMCs before the new book came out.

It was 6th Ed that brought FMC spam, not Phil Kelly's Daemon Codex.

Couple of things...

First of all, I've never seen a Heldrake in a game, let alone three in my meta. We just have Dakkajets and Marine Flyers to contend with, so it isn't too bad.

As I shall walk through the valley in the shadow of possible Heldrake spam, I shall fear no evil... cuz I'm the meanest mofo in the 41st millennium and I carry a sharp pointy stick.

Second...

Been speculating on Reapers with the Eldar equivalent of Krak missiles. These guys are very cheap for what they do and when facing flyers, ten of these guys are a scary prospect. You'll roll some sixes, two - three if you have an Exarch with fast shot.

I'm thinking a good build is:

9 Reapers + Exarch.
Reapers have Krak Missiles.
Exarch has Tempest Launcher.

Nine Krak shots from a single unit is pretty scary. The Starswarms are great vs MEQ and can be demi hoard removal. The Kraks also do double time as potential anti air.

The Tempest Launcher is for pure Horde removal, especially with Fast shot. Model looks bad ass too.

It is expensive, but it gets so many jobs done.

If you can have a Seer with Divination, that is a unit that has a lot of potential.

Belly wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nocturnus wrote:

Heldrake spam are going to eat this army alive. Which saddens me. I finally had to break down and buy one for my CSM. I tried to resist, but damn...

I found helldrakes to not be too scary in the old codex. This one makes them mincemeat if you field crimson hunters.

They can't be vector struck if you're playing right, which is sticking to board edges and vector dancing. And they have 4 Str 8 shots, which can almost always be directed at rear armour. They're sitting-turkeys, if you will. CSM are the one army I don't fear with this new codex. Tau on the otherhand...

I think a lot of flyers are in the one and done category, Your flyers dont have the AV to hold up against a lot of just mid strength multi shot weapons. Autocannons, missile pods, dakka guns, assault cannons, etc. You can hope for going second to get a shot at the other guys flyer first, but after that I think a lot of armies are just praying for 6s. And for the most part it seems to work on the lower AV fliers.

It seems the direction that the flyers released in 6th are going, and thats not such a bad thing.

MRPYM wrote:So with all this hate being said, can someone tell me anything they like with the new codex?

Striking Scorpions are beastly, I think.

Khaine wrote:I've seen so many drama queens - I can't believe people are saying the codex is a nerf, buffs are everywhere .
I saw the same thing with CSM and Daemons; just because the army isn't obviously unbalanced like GK doesn't mean they are crap

What I've seen:
1) Banshees - crap
2) Warlocks - random power AFTER assigning units is crap. Casting at Ld8 vs Always On - why'd they get more expensive?
3) Wraithknight - 4 weapons 2 shots - WTF?
4) Flyers - wee, AV10 all around

What I haven't seen:
1) The entire codex is trash! Burn it to the ground!

Okay, I saw one or two of those. They're idiots. I'm undecided on overall codex balance currently. There's just some things that are off, and we already know before the codex is in hand that internal balance is pretty bad in spots. Jetbike Guardians were one of the best improvements - they were already our best troops! Striking Scorpions laugh at Howling Banshees. Harlequins brought back a rule (distance check roll) that they just removed completely for 6th. A year in and they've switched their minds again?

It's hard to judge overall codex effectiveness this early. It is, however, easy to spot dumb stuff that just shouldn't have happened. Guess what? The book contains dumb stuff that just shouldn't have happened.

A question for anyone in possession of the codex! does the farseer have to take half rounded powers from codex? and also not sure if you can post it here please message me otherwise the points cost on a bike for farseers and warlocks?

The thing about Harlies, is that with their large amount of attacks and Harley Kiss, they can murder Termies in cc.

Much better than Banshees at taking out MEQ too and they can get into cc, unlike the Banshees.

Scorpions are great though.

My top elite picks are Dragons, Scorpions and Harlies.

WG and WB should only be taken as troops.

 Overlord Zerrtin wrote:
A question for anyone in possession of the codex! does the farseer have to take half rounded powers from codex? and also not sure if you can post it here please message me otherwise the points cost on a bike for farseers and warlocks?

No restriction on Farseers. Bikes are 15.

Quark wrote:

MRPYM wrote:So with all this hate being said, can someone tell me anything they like with the new codex?

Striking Scorpions are beastly, I think.

Khaine wrote:I've seen so many drama queens - I can't believe people are saying the codex is a nerf, buffs are everywhere .
I saw the same thing with CSM and Daemons; just because the army isn't obviously unbalanced like GK doesn't mean they are crap

What I've seen:
1) Banshees - crap
2) Warlocks - random power AFTER assigning units is crap. Casting at Ld8 vs Always On - why'd they get more expensive?
3) Wraithknight - 4 weapons 2 shots - WTF?
4) Flyers - wee, AV10 all around

What I haven't seen:
1) The entire codex is trash! Burn it to the ground!

Okay, I saw one or two of those. They're idiots. I'm undecided on overall codex balance currently. There's just some things that are off, and we already know before the codex is in hand that internal balance is pretty bad in spots. Jetbike Guardians were one of the best improvements - they were already our best troops! Striking Scorpions laugh at Howling Banshees. Harlequins brought back a rule (distance check roll) that they just removed completely for 6th. A year in and they've switched their minds again?

It's hard to judge overall codex effectiveness this early. It is, however, easy to spot dumb stuff that just shouldn't have happened. Guess what? The book contains dumb stuff that just shouldn't have happened.

^ I love posts that count their chickens before they hatch.

@quark Have yo playtested anything yet? if your answer is a no then sit down and shut up. This is all paper talk where nothing matters. Lets send them out into the field and see what happens when we apply TACTICS.....I know, I know tactics are hardly used in 40k, but cmon on..I think we can all use a little tactics now and then....

Nocturnus wrote:

 Khaine wrote:
I've seen so many drama queens - I can't believe people are saying the codex is a nerf, buffs are everywhere .
I saw the same thing with CSM and Daemons; just because the army isn't obviously unbalanced like GK doesn't mean they are crap

Or Necrons...

Heldrake spam are going to eat this army alive. Which saddens me. I finally had to break down and buy one for my CSM. I tried to resist, but damn...

You will do ok against Drakes if you build your list right since you will get the alpha strike against them with your fliers. A single Crimson Hunter has a reasonable shot of dropping a Drake and with Vector Dancer and a squad placed just in front of your flier you can avoid the Vector Strikes for 1-2 turns. You just need to get the +1 armour save power on your Jetbikes and you guaranteed to have Troops alive and if not you spead out hard and maneuver under the Drakes as best you can. I would far rather face Drakes than Necron fliers tbh.

Miguelsan wrote:

Powerguy wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:

 Miguelsan wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:

LOL, GW never had or cared about "balance". They care about selling minis. As long as the investors are seeing profits, that's all that matters. To GW, that is. As for getting beat out by PP, I would laugh but I don't think that will happen. At least the 40K players I know think WarmaHordes is a stupid game with crappy models. But, to each their own.

But is it too much to ask that at least they follow the current set of rules without coming up with useless stuff? If sniper rifles have a rule that confers precision shot to its user, why rangers (apparently might be wrong) have a special rule that gives precision shot?

M.

Do they come with Pistols?

Maybe it's there in case you want to charge with your Rangers!

I think you are mixing up Rangers and Pathfinders. Rangers are 12pts for a BS4 Sniper Rifle (which has Precision). Pathfinders are unlocked by the Ranger HQ character, 12(ish) pt upgrade to Rangers and ALL their shots are Precision (same as the Ranger character).

But what's the point of the rule? it's akin to giving a lascannon to SM assault squads just in case they want to camp an objective. That's not the purpose of the squad.

M.

Sniper rifles normally get Precision hits (letting you allocate the wound not your opponent) on 6's to hit right? Pathfinders and the Ranger character are basically the same as the Vindicare (without the no LOS rule) so they ALWAYS allocate the wound. It makes Pathfinders pretty funny on Quad Guns.

@Puscifer. Yeah Reapers are nasty, although I wouldn't give the Exarch anything other than Krak Missiles and Night Vision. That unit is going to be 400 odd points though. Maybe take a Spiritseer as well for Shrouding or a chance at a 2+ save?

Eldrad is kind of scary in cc, he can kill pretty much any monstrous creature outside the dreadknight thanks to fleshbane/force weapon.

I'm most interested in what sort of punch I can put into using Eldar as Allies for my DE. I used to rely on them for psyhic defense and for the bliss of using doom on a unit and then running over them with Reaver Bladeveins.

skarsol wrote:

 Overlord Zerrtin wrote:
A question for anyone in possession of the codex! does the farseer have to take half rounded powers from codex? and also not sure if you can post it here please message me otherwise the points cost on a bike for farseers and warlocks?

No restriction on Farseers. Bikes are 15.

Thanks! my dreams live on triple telepathy farseer on jetbike = love.

Edit 1: Double post wtf
Edit 2: I have a physical copy of the codex that arrived an hour ago if anyone has any specific questions

Looks like !@#$ just got real...

 Miguelsan wrote:

Powerguy wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:

 Miguelsan wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:

LOL, GW never had or cared about "balance". They care about selling minis. As long as the investors are seeing profits, that's all that matters. To GW, that is. As for getting beat out by PP, I would laugh but I don't think that will happen. At least the 40K players I know think WarmaHordes is a stupid game with crappy models. But, to each their own.

But is it too much to ask that at least they follow the current set of rules without coming up with useless stuff? If sniper rifles have a rule that confers precision shot to its user, why rangers (apparently might be wrong) have a special rule that gives precision shot?

M.

Do they come with Pistols?

Maybe it's there in case you want to charge with your Rangers!

I think you are mixing up Rangers and Pathfinders. Rangers are 12pts for a BS4 Sniper Rifle (which has Precision). Pathfinders are unlocked by the Ranger HQ character, 12(ish) pt upgrade to Rangers and ALL their shots are Precision (same as the Ranger character).

But what's the point of the rule? it's akin to giving a lascannon to SM assault squads just in case they want to camp an objective. That's not the purpose of the squad.

M.

From the way the rule for "Precision Shots" reads:

It goes active on a roll of "6" for To Hit.

The wording of Illic (and his Pathfinders) implies that all of their rolls are Precision Shots.
Precision Shots allow for allocating against a model(s) of your choosing in the target unit as long as they are in range rather than normal rules for Wound allocation.

Without having read Illic and his Pathfinders' rules in detail, this is just the impression I am getting.
I would assume that is why they went out of their way to make such a clear distinction. It is the difference between a unit rolling 6's To Hit with their Sniper Rifles and gaining Precision Shots(Rangers) and a unit consistently having Precision Shots (Pathfinders and Illic).

 Jayden63 wrote:
I'm most interested in what sort of punch I can put into using Eldar as Allies for my DE. I used to rely on them for psyhic defense and for the bliss of using doom on a unit and then running over them with Reaver Bladeveins.

well....still have it AND we now have double powers, most of which can seriously help the DE. You can even use divination for crying out loud....

Also, due to the wording of fortune archons with re-rollable 2+ invuls is possible now.

 Khaine wrote:
Also, due to the wording of fortune archons with re-rollable 2+ invuls is possible now.

That used to be possible and was most commonly done by attaching an Archon to an Eldar Harlie ally unit. Then fortuning the whole unit with your allied Farseer. So I guess nothing has changed here.

I wonder now how Eldar harlies will differ from DE harlies, especially since the most recent DE faq made them the same to the old book.

Puscifer wrote:
Couple of things...

First of all, I've never seen a Heldrake in a game, let alone three in my meta. We just have Dakkajets and Marine Flyers to contend with, so it isn't too bad.

As I shall walk through the valley in the shadow of possible Heldrake spam, I shall fear no evil... cuz I'm the meanest mofo in the 41st millennium and I carry a sharp pointy stick.

Second...

Been speculating on Reapers with the Eldar equivalent of Krak missiles. These guys are very cheap for what they do and when facing flyers, ten of these guys are a scary prospect. You'll roll some sixes, two - three if you have an Exarch with fast shot.

I'm thinking a good build is:

9 Reapers + Exarch.
Reapers have Krak Missiles.
Exarch has Tempest Launcher.

Nine Krak shots from a single unit is pretty scary. The Starswarms are great vs MEQ and can be demi hoard removal. The Kraks also do double time as potential anti air.

The Tempest Launcher is for pure Horde removal, especially with Fast shot. Model looks bad ass too.

It is expensive, but it gets so many jobs done.

If you can have a Seer with Divination, that is a unit that has a lot of potential.

You're looking at over 300pts for one unit. Here where the usual point limit is 1500, makes this unrealistic.
Also, regarding my earlier comment about eating the army I wasn't strictly speaking about flyers. With Vector Dancer, I think they will be relatively safe from the 'Drake. I meant what it's going to do to all that T3 with S6 template..

So, I'm trying to figure out one thing and it's bugging me.

The Wailing Doom, supposedly, has the same 12" range that it had before. So I can understand that they're giving the Avatar access to Fast Shot and Marksman's Eye, since in theory you might actually want to double-tap your Doom at a squad and maybe even pick your target if you roll well.

But.

Why can the Avatar buy Night Vision?

Night Fighting only kicks in at 12" of range. He can't join a squad and give them Night Vision.

The only explanation I can think of is that somehow, he was originally supposed to have a longer range weapon, and that it got cut back down to 12" and nobody thought to change what powers he had access to. Kinda like how I can't see how the Wraithknight made it out with four weapons when it can only fire two, or how Warlocks are expected to be effective with Ld 8, or any of a host of other little oddities in the list that seem to reflect a version of the rules that we didn't quite get.

At least, that's what I keep telling myself to avoid contemplating the possibility that they have people writing the Codices who have no idea what the actual rules are.

Raesvelg wrote:
So, I'm trying to figure out one thing and it's bugging me.

The Wailing Doom, supposedly, has the same 12" range that it had before. So I can understand that they're giving the Avatar access to Fast Shot and Marksman's Eye, since in theory you might actually want to double-tap your Doom at a squad and maybe even pick your target if you roll well.

But.

Why can the Avatar buy Night Vision?

Night Fighting only kicks in at 12" of range. He can't join a squad and give them Night Vision.

The only explanation I can think of is that somehow, he was originally supposed to have a longer range weapon, and that it got cut back down to 12" and nobody thought to change what powers he had access to. Kinda like how I can't see how the Wraithknight made it out with four weapons when it can only fire two, or how Warlocks are expected to be effective with Ld 8, or any of a host of other little oddities in the list that seem to reflect a version of the rules that we didn't quite get.

At least, that's what I keep telling myself to avoid contemplating the possibility that they have people writing the Codices who have no idea what the actual rules are.

You could put him on a quad-gun...maybe...

Belly wrote:

You could put him on a quad-gun...maybe...

That's about it. And while it is kinda entertaining to contemplate a BS10 Avatar with Fast Shot and Night Vision gunning down things with a Quad Gun, it... seems a trifle out of character.

There is nothing preventing him from firing an emplaced weapon. I'm not sure I'd want him hanging back to do that, but there is nothing preventing him from doing so.

 Jayden63 wrote:

 Khaine wrote:
Also, due to the wording of fortune archons with re-rollable 2+ invuls is possible now.

That used to be possible and was most commonly done by attaching an Archon to an Eldar Harlie ally unit. Then fortuning the whole unit with your allied Farseer. So I guess nothing has changed here.

I wonder now how Eldar harlies will differ from DE harlies, especially since the most recent DE faq made them the same to the old book.

They are in line with the recent DE faq, including pts costs.
Edit: I can't seem to find this DE faq that you speak of

Raesvelg wrote:

Belly wrote:

You could put him on a quad-gun...maybe...

That's about it. And while it is kinda entertaining to contemplate a BS10 Avatar with Fast Shot and Night Vision gunning down things with a Quad Gun, it... seems a trifle out of character.

At that point you just have the avatar modeled into a sad panda and have a bored look on his face with one finger on a button

GTKA666 wrote:

Raesvelg wrote:

Belly wrote:

You could put him on a quad-gun...maybe...

That's about it. And while it is kinda entertaining to contemplate a BS10 Avatar with Fast Shot and Night Vision gunning down things with a Quad Gun, it... seems a trifle out of character.

At that point you just have the avatar modeled into a sad panda and have a bored look on his face with one finger on a button

LOL that would make for an AMAZING modelling opportunity.......

Edit: Double post

 Khaine wrote:
Edit 1: Double post wtf
Edit 2: I have a physical copy of the codex that arrived an hour ago if anyone has any specific questions

What upgrades are available to a farseer besides the bike and secondly what do they do now?... I wish my codex had come early cant stand the wait!

How about clarifying the wording for Illic Nightspear's rules?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Miguelsan wrote:

Powerguy wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:

 Miguelsan wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:

LOL, GW never had or cared about "balance". They care about selling minis. As long as the investors are seeing profits, that's all that matters. To GW, that is. As for getting beat out by PP, I would laugh but I don't think that will happen. At least the 40K players I know think WarmaHordes is a stupid game with crappy models. But, to each their own.

But is it too much to ask that at least they follow the current set of rules without coming up with useless stuff? If sniper rifles have a rule that confers precision shot to its user, why rangers (apparently might be wrong) have a special rule that gives precision shot?

M.

Do they come with Pistols?

Maybe it's there in case you want to charge with your Rangers!

I think you are mixing up Rangers and Pathfinders. Rangers are 12pts for a BS4 Sniper Rifle (which has Precision). Pathfinders are unlocked by the Ranger HQ character, 12(ish) pt upgrade to Rangers and ALL their shots are Precision (same as the Ranger character).

But what's the point of the rule? it's akin to giving a lascannon to SM assault squads just in case they want to camp an objective. That's not the purpose of the squad.

M.

From the way the rule for "Precision Shots" reads:

It goes active on a roll of "6" for To Hit.

The wording of Illic (and his Pathfinders) implies that all of their rolls are Precision Shots.
Precision Shots allow for allocating against a model(s) of your choosing in the target unit as long as they are in range rather than normal rules for Wound allocation.

Without having read Illic and his Pathfinders' rules in detail, this is just the impression I am getting.
I would assume that is why they went out of their way to make such a clear distinction. It is the difference between a unit rolling 6's To Hit with their Sniper Rifles and gaining Precision Shots(Rangers) and a unit consistently having Precision Shots (Pathfinders and Illic).

If your understanding of the rule is correct then I will agree that the rule is not stupid (well I did say I could be prove wrong ) and that pathfinders 'won't' be useful at all due to the new fire magnet rule that makes all ignore cover weapon blasts target them

M.

 Kanluwen wrote:
How about clarifying the wording for Illic Nightspear's rules?

Codex wrote:Shots fired by models with this special rule (excluding Snap Shots) are always precision shots.

skarsol wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
How about clarifying the wording for Illic Nightspear's rules?

Codex wrote:Shots fired by models with this special rule (excluding Snap Shots) are always precision shots.

dear god....now it really is hard to chose between the avatar and illic....

Illic and the Spiritseer both are now showing as "Expected to dispatch in one to two weeks" when you hover over the Release Date Information on the US website.

Everything else is showing as the standard preorder spiel.

It could be nothing; but I'm fairly certain that yesterday Illic had the normal preorder spiel when hovering over the Release Date info.

These double posts need to stop.

Nocturnus wrote:


You're looking at over 300pts for one unit. Here where the usual point limit is 1500, makes this unrealistic.
Also, regarding my earlier comment about eating the army I wasn't strictly speaking about flyers. With Vector Dancer, I think they will be relatively safe from the 'Drake. I meant what it's going to do to all that T3 with S6 template..

The usual points limits in my Meta are 1750, 1850 and 2k.

It's not as unrealistic as you might think at those levels.

I agree with you regarding the Crimson Hunter. It can avoid the Drake and blow it to bits fairly easily.

IMO, the Hunter is auto include as it is very powerful, if fragile.

I'm looking through to determine how I might want to trick out my Farseer(s) and... just the thought of a Farseer with the Uldy Long Rifle... it's kind of funny. Would be a hell of a lot of fun to model...

I take back what I said about AA. I've had an epiphany.

Wave Serpents. Wait. hear me out.

Twin-linked Scatter lasers and a shuriken cannon. Snap-fire the scatter lasers, making the shuriken cannon twin-linked. You can also fire the serpent shield D6+1 times, which is also now twin-linked S7 and ignores cover. No jink saves for you!

Does this sound legit?

Belly wrote:
I take back what I said about AA. I've had an epiphany.

Wave Serpents. Wait. hear me out.

Twin-linked Scatter lasers and a shuriken cannon. Snap-fire the scatter lasers, making the shuriken cannon twin-linked. You can also fire the serpent shield D6+1 times, which is also now twin-linked S7 and ignores cover. No jink saves for you!

Does this sound legit?

Yep I was thinking that. Each Serpent should on average put at least a couple of glances if not a couple of Pens against a Rhino or Devilfish (no coversaves HA!). Very very easy way to get First Blood and de-mech your opponent, ready for Bladestorming or other ridiculous firepower. Also the fact that Scatterwalkers, Falcons and Wraithlords with Scatterlasers have everything twin-linked now means a lot less reliance on Prescience/Guide.

Belly wrote:
I take back what I said about AA. I've had an epiphany.

Wave Serpents. Wait. hear me out.

Twin-linked Scatter lasers and a shuriken cannon. Snap-fire the scatter lasers, making the shuriken cannon twin-linked. You can also fire the serpent shield D6+1 times, which is also now twin-linked S7 and ignores cover. No jink saves for you!

Does this sound legit?

expect this to be faqued quickly rofl.

Well they've made plenty of room in the Eldar FAQ already.. let em come!

GTKA666 wrote:

Belly wrote:
I take back what I said about AA. I've had an epiphany.

Wave Serpents. Wait. hear me out.

Twin-linked Scatter lasers and a shuriken cannon. Snap-fire the scatter lasers, making the shuriken cannon twin-linked. You can also fire the serpent shield D6+1 times, which is also now twin-linked S7 and ignores cover. No jink saves for you!

Does this sound legit?

expect this to be faqued quickly rofl.

If this wasn't the intended purpose, then why put Ignores Cover on an AP - weapon in the first place? Are there any troops in the game that don't at least have a 6+ save?

We are talking about shooting the shield at a flier that is twin linked IF the SL hit the flyer at all. I don't think it was Kelly's intention for the shield to be used against fliers.

I didn't see a post about it so...

Everything is up for sale on GW now.

Isn't it a day early?

Sorry if someone posted this earlier but I didn't see it.

Also... Now that they're here should a new thread be started?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

milo wrote:

GTKA666 wrote:

Belly wrote:
I take back what I said about AA. I've had an epiphany.

Wave Serpents. Wait. hear me out.

Twin-linked Scatter lasers and a shuriken cannon. Snap-fire the scatter lasers, making the shuriken cannon twin-linked. You can also fire the serpent shield D6+1 times, which is also now twin-linked S7 and ignores cover. No jink saves for you!

Does this sound legit?

expect this to be faqued quickly rofl.

If this wasn't the intended purpose, then why put Ignores Cover on an AP - weapon in the first place? Are there any troops in the game that don't at least have a 6+ save?

Making Orks use a 6+ save is better than letting them use their 5+ KFF save.

 DeffDred wrote:
I didn't see a post about it so...

Everything is up for sale on GW now.

Isn't it a day early?

Still says pre-order for me.

The new items are in their respective categories, but if you click on them, it says "available for pre-order" at the very bottom.

 Zweischneid wrote:

 DeffDred wrote:
I didn't see a post about it so...

Everything is up for sale on GW now.

Isn't it a day early?

Still says pre-order for me.

The new items are in their respective categories, but if you click on them, it says "available for pre-order" at the very bottom.

Indeed you are correct sir! Odd, why wouldn't they be under a pre-order menu? Curse you GW!

 Khaine wrote:
Edit 1: Double post wtf
Edit 2: I have a physical copy of the codex that arrived an hour ago if anyone has any specific questions

Which units aside from Reapers can take the skyfire missile option?

How many points are the vehicle upgrades?

More importantly, can the normal reapers take missile launchers too (i.e. S8 goodness)?

Normal Reapers can get the Krak missile variant for a little less than 10 extra points.

War Walkers are the only other Skyfire I can immediately think of. But they are really expensive with that option. Its kinda odd that Missiles are the most expensive weapon for most things. Even without skyfire.

xttz wrote:

 Khaine wrote:
Edit 1: Double post wtf
Edit 2: I have a physical copy of the codex that arrived an hour ago if anyone has any specific questions

Which units aside from Reapers can take the skyfire missile option?

How many points are the vehicle upgrades?

Reapers don't have Skyfire sadly, the Exarch is the only one in the unit that can get access to Flakk ammo which is completely pointless since he can't get Split Fire. The ONLY other unit in the Codex with access to a weapon with Skyfire is the War Walker, which can pay 25 pts PER WEAPON to upgrade to a Missile Launcher with Krak, Plasma (they have fancy new names for the ammo, and the Krak Missile has Pinning as well now, but they are still the same profiles otherwise) and Flakk ammo (so 110pts per Walker for double Missiles). We are going to be relying on the Crimson Hunter to knock out important fliers quickly before it gets crushed, and then use Guide to get some lucky hits for everything else.

Vehicle upgrades are 10-15pts, except for the Crystal Targeting Matrix (one use only, shoot 1 weapon after moving flat out) which is 25pts

milo wrote:

GTKA666 wrote:

Belly wrote:
I take back what I said about AA. I've had an epiphany.

Wave Serpents. Wait. hear me out.

Twin-linked Scatter lasers and a shuriken cannon. Snap-fire the scatter lasers, making the shuriken cannon twin-linked. You can also fire the serpent shield D6+1 times, which is also now twin-linked S7 and ignores cover. No jink saves for you!

Does this sound legit?

expect this to be faqued quickly rofl.

If this wasn't the intended purpose, then why put Ignores Cover on an AP - weapon in the first place? Are there any troops in the game that don't at least have a 6+ save?

Why would this get FAQ'd quickly? The Serpent shield is for all intents and purposes a weapon, its clearly supposed to be more than just a disruptive shock wave the Serpent pulses off when it drops off troops, since it has 60" range lol. And if you have to ask why an AP - weapon with ignore cover is helpful you clearly haven't played 6th enough. The amount of 2+ cover going around is incredibly frustrating, if you aren't a Marine most of the time your cover save is better significantly better than your normal save (Shrouding/Stealth is all over the place, and you can go to ground in area terrain to get 3+ as well).

Nocturnus wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
Couple of things...

First of all, I've never seen a Heldrake in a game, let alone three in my meta. We just have Dakkajets and Marine Flyers to contend with, so it isn't too bad.

As I shall walk through the valley in the shadow of possible Heldrake spam, I shall fear no evil... cuz I'm the meanest mofo in the 41st millennium and I carry a sharp pointy stick.

Second...

Been speculating on Reapers with the Eldar equivalent of Krak missiles. These guys are very cheap for what they do and when facing flyers, ten of these guys are a scary prospect. You'll roll some sixes, two - three if you have an Exarch with fast shot.

I'm thinking a good build is:

9 Reapers + Exarch.
Reapers have Krak Missiles.
Exarch has Tempest Launcher.

Nine Krak shots from a single unit is pretty scary. The Starswarms are great vs MEQ and can be demi hoard removal. The Kraks also do double time as potential anti air.

The Tempest Launcher is for pure Horde removal, especially with Fast shot. Model looks bad ass too.

It is expensive, but it gets so many jobs done.

If you can have a Seer with Divination, that is a unit that has a lot of potential.

You're looking at over 300pts for one unit. Here where the usual point limit is 1500, makes this unrealistic.
Also, regarding my earlier comment about eating the army I wasn't strictly speaking about flyers. With Vector Dancer, I think they will be relatively safe from the 'Drake. I meant what it's going to do to all that T3 with S6 template..

Lol try well over 400pts for that unit, not 300. To summarise the important bits for Reapers - they are 30pts base with the S5 AP3 2 shot ammo (can move and shoot now remember). They can pay 8pts per model to buy Starshot ammo (which is a Krak missile with Pinning). Exarch can upgrade to a proper Missile Launcher (losing the S5 ammo and gaining Plasma/Krak) and then buys Flakk ammo on top of that. The unit is a potential ranged Deathstar, attach a Spiritseer with +1 armour, Farseer to Guide them and they are pretty crazy. If the Tau Commander support systems (Puretide etc) work on allies then you can make them pretty silly.

Do you know of any force projection type hit that is able to hit ground and air?

Sigh, I cant believe I already have friends complaining how OP guardians are because there basic gun has a version of rending. Some people...

Loving these new rules and cant wait to pick up a codex tomorrow with some wraithguard

@ Powerguy...

Farseer with Div would work right?

About the Wraithknight: even if he was FAQed to be able to shoot all his weapons, it would be still questionable to give two extra weapon to the wraithcannon WK. All the extra weapons are S6, so they really do no synch with his mainguns. He's need spitfire too to effectively use the extra guns. (One scatterlaser for targetting would be good though.)

 Crimson wrote:
About the Wraithknight: even if he was FAQed to be able to shoot all his weapons, it would be still questionable to give two extra weapon to the wraithcannon WK. All the extra weapons are S6, so they really do no synch with his mainguns. He's need spitfire too to effectively use the extra guns. (One scatterlaser for targetting would be good though.)

Well their only use seems to be with the sword and shield combo.

Belly wrote:
I take back what I said about AA. I've had an epiphany.

Wave Serpents. Wait. hear me out.

Twin-linked Scatter lasers and a shuriken cannon. Snap-fire the scatter lasers, making the shuriken cannon twin-linked. You can also fire the serpent shield D6+1 times, which is also now twin-linked S7 and ignores cover. No jink saves for you!

Does this sound legit?

A flier would have to be well out of range of a shuriken cannon to be in the arc of fire of the under-turret on a Wave Serpent.

Puscifer wrote:@ Powerguy...

Farseer with Div would work right?

Yeah of course, Guide is is the Primaris for Fate (Farseer) powers as well so you are almost always going to end up with re-rolls. I'm more thinking of the Tank Hunters/Monster Hunter and ignore cover abilities that Tau have, if they work on allies then that unit will destroy crush anything not in 2+ armour from 48" away.

Crimson wrote:About the Wraithknight: even if he was FAQed to be able to shoot all his weapons, it would be still questionable to give two extra weapon to the wraithcannon WK. All the extra weapons are S6, so they really do no synch with his mainguns. He's need spitfire too to effectively use the extra guns. (One scatterlaser for targetting would be good though.)

Well not all vehicles are AV14, in fact most are AV11-12, so Scatters will still do something. But yeah its mostly the twin linking, it will make it a completely standalone unit that can pick off a tank per turn.

 D6Damager wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
About the Wraithknight: even if he was FAQed to be able to shoot all his weapons, it would be still questionable to give two extra weapon to the wraithcannon WK. All the extra weapons are S6, so they really do no synch with his mainguns. He's need spitfire too to effectively use the extra guns. (One scatterlaser for targetting would be good though.)

Well their only use seems to be with the sword and shield combo.

The sword seems way too underwhelming to bother with it. Suncannon/Shield with a scatter to twinlink it or dual cannons will be the way to go IMO.

 D6Damager wrote:

Well their only use seems to be with the sword and shield combo.

But if you give the swordknight two extra weapons he is about the same cost as the suncannon variant. Single suncannon is certainly better than two of the any extra weapon and the sword is pretty much useless.

Only weapon combination that makes any sense to me is suncannon and scatterlaser. It is insanely expensive, but at least it will kill marines quite effectively.

So many doom and gloom people on bols and warseer - frankly they are blind and dumb and I can't wait to smash people like them with the new codex.

 Khaine wrote:
So many doom and gloom people on bols and warseer - frankly they are blind and dumb and I can't wait to smash people like them with the new codex.

I love people like that

Mr.Church13 wrote:

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

Mr.Church13 wrote:

 Magc8Ball wrote:

 undertow wrote:

Nvs wrote:


It's specifically mentioned in the Eldar codex that you choose warlord traits, then place your warlocks, then roll for abilities.

Well, seeing as how the codex hasn't been released yet, it's a bit difficult to see what is specifically mentioned isn't it?

Not that hard, really.

It's pretty amazing that you can tell what rules Kelly wrote from the rules Ward forced him to add in or change. This forced "cinematic" with warlocks reminds me of the same descrepency I see in the Helldrake rules coming out of left field and not fitting in design with the rest of Kelly's CSM dex.

What makes you think that Matt Ward, a much tarnished junior codex writer, has any influence on anything Phil Kelly, a senior and respected codex writer, has? If anything you've got the roles reversed. In any case, without the Helldrake, codex CSM would have bombed hard.

Becasue Ward, as much as I hate it, was completely in charge of writing the 6th edition ruleset. His power codexes sell more wich in GW's eyes makes him the go to guy for codexes ((aka more sales makes you a better rules writer) Which in and of itself is actually pretty good business logic). The part about without the Helldrake just confirms my suspicion as to Wards influence on other dexes. GW saw a balanced yet underperforimng (In their eyes) codex and had Ward step in to do what Ward does best, Break it. That thing is such a hard sharp left turn from a Kelly dex theres no way he wrote that entry let alone costed or FAQed it. I'm betting that any initial draft of the Eldar codex has significantly less "Cinematic" elements in it because of the love Kelly shows for eldar is just thrown out the window for certain things which if not told to by Ward (Creator and Showrunner of 6th) to add more "Cinematic" then who?

Wards in charge. Whether you believe it or not is irrelevant, because he'll continue to push the idiotic concepts he invented further and further as 6th continues.

What kind of kool-aid are you bloody drinking? Do you even know anyone in Studio? I don't think so.

 Eldarain wrote:

 D6Damager wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
About the Wraithknight: even if he was FAQed to be able to shoot all his weapons, it would be still questionable to give two extra weapon to the wraithcannon WK. All the extra weapons are S6, so they really do no synch with his mainguns. He's need spitfire too to effectively use the extra guns. (One scatterlaser for targetting would be good though.)

Well their only use seems to be with the sword and shield combo.

The sword seems way too underwhelming to bother with it. Suncannon/Shield with a scatter to twinlink it or dual cannons will be the way to go IMO.

It definitely needs the shield. It will drop too fast without it.

 D6Damager wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:

 D6Damager wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
About the Wraithknight: even if he was FAQed to be able to shoot all his weapons, it would be still questionable to give two extra weapon to the wraithcannon WK. All the extra weapons are S6, so they really do no synch with his mainguns. He's need spitfire too to effectively use the extra guns. (One scatterlaser for targetting would be good though.)

Well their only use seems to be with the sword and shield combo.

The sword seems way too underwhelming to bother with it. Suncannon/Shield with a scatter to twinlink it or dual cannons will be the way to go IMO.

It definitely needs the shield. It will drop too fast without it.

No it doesnt, the shield is quite useless. You can get a cover save very easily and it should be fast enough to avoid CC with units that it dont want to get into a fight with. In which case a 5++ wouldnt make muchof a difference vs hammerenators anyway

Plastic Farseer: £12
Spiritseer (resin) £11

Infinity spec ops £9 (with head swaps and multiple weapon choices in pewter).

The DA price change is pretty bad, the farseer is equally confusing though. £12 for a single plastic miniature is silly.

 Khaine wrote:
So many doom and gloom people on bols and warseer - frankly they are blind and dumb and I can't wait to smash people like them with the new codex.

Part of the problem is that the codex is played so many different ways (Stormwind, Footdar, Mech spam, Wraith spam, etc) that if they didn't get a specific boost to their play style they feel left out.
I would gladly play the old codex if an Autarch or Phoenix Lord made just 2 squads of Aspect Warriors troops and if Banshees had an exarch power that let them assault from a transport.

But that's just how it goes, everyone wants something and not everyone can get their wishes, lest the "Newest = Strongest" would become unbearably true.

Evilref wrote:

£12 for a single plastic miniature is silly.

It would be okay if he had some head and hand options. Customisability is the whole point of plastic.

Raesvelg wrote:

Belly wrote:

You could put him on a quad-gun...maybe...

That's about it. And while it is kinda entertaining to contemplate a BS10 Avatar with Fast Shot and Night Vision gunning down things with a Quad Gun, it... seems a trifle out of character.

The image is making me giggle. A lot.

[quote=tedurur 463557 5681051 nullNo it doesnt, the shield is quite useless. You can get a cover save very easily and it should be fast enough to avoid CC with units that it dont want to get into a fight with. In which case a 5++ wouldnt make muchof a difference vs hammerenators anyway

I think pretty much every style has had some sort of boost, in order I'd say probably:

Windriders - jetbikes boost and other skimmers BS4
Swordwind - Most of the Aspects have got buffed nicely
Wraith - Wraithknight, Wraithlord no longer twin linked, wraithblades
Footdar - Boost to aspects and Guardians definitely more effective.

The only thing that seems slightly worse is psychic powers, but perhaps we're just less reliant on them this time.

 shamikebab wrote:
I think pretty much every style has had some sort of boost, in order I'd say probably:

Windriders - jetbikes boost and other skimmers BS4
Swordwind - Most of the Aspects have got buffed nicely
Wraith - Wraithknight, Wraithlord no longer twin linked, wraithblades
Footdar - Boost to aspects and Guardians definitely more effective.

The only thing that seems slightly worse is psychic powers, but perhaps we're just less reliant on them this time.

What about my army? Yme'Loc. Known for vehicles.

Our vehicles seem a lot better this edition for the same or less cost. Also I can add in non-Nightwing flyers. Should be fun!

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:
What about my army? Yme'Loc. Known for vehicles.

Wave Serpent Spam.

I'm surprised no one mentioned holofield wave serpent with storm guardians inside with a warlock with primaris shroud. That's a 2+ jink save and you don't even need to flat out, storm guardians can have 2 fusion guns so just stroll up to tanks and blow them up haha!

I'm really going to enjoy reading the codex and coming up with as many different strategies as I can, I find that sometimes the games that are the most fun are when things don't go as planned and you have to think up a back-up plan to salvage the situation.

I took out my wave serpents just last night. I'm thinking of a quick army - GJB, Units in WS, 3 Crimson Fighters, 2 Prisms and a Night Spinner. Something along those lines.

I was actually measuring out the capabilities of eldar units disembarking and using the run/ shoot move. we can really get some units across the board quickly and with the vectored engine, we can keep the WS pretty safe afterwards.

I am so excited to finally get my book! Come on FED EX!

I'm contemplating actually taking jetbike squads of decent size instead of just spamming min size troops. When comparing to a Tac squad they actually come out pretty favorable.

Quark wrote:
I'm contemplating actually taking jetbike squads of decent size instead of just spamming min size troops. When comparing to a Tac squad they actually come out pretty favorable.

HERESY!

Seriously though, this isn't a bad idea. They are much more survivable and dangerous. Also, I heard something about a +1 Armor Save power. 2+ Bikes is awesome.

 shamikebab wrote:
I think pretty much every style has had some sort of boost, in order I'd say probably:

Windriders - jetbikes boost and other skimmers BS4
Swordwind - Most of the Aspects have got buffed nicely
Wraith - Wraithknight, Wraithlord no longer twin linked, wraithblades
Footdar - Boost to aspects and Guardians definitely more effective.

The only thing that seems slightly worse is psychic powers, but perhaps we're just less reliant on them this time.

I should reiterate... it's not the boosts they were looking for

Sadly, random warlock powers. But if you do get one it's sweet. Rending jetbike terminators.

So, what about the Mantle of the Laughing God? It's not cheap, but it grants H&R, Shrouded and Stealth (guaranteeing a 4+ cover save at all times at a minimum), and allows you to re-roll failed cover saves. You do lose the Independent part of Independent Characters. Clearly, it's meant to give you the equivalent of a Harlequin Solitaire, who roams the battlefield alone, never able to join any other unit.

From what I can see, the only three characters that can potentially get this are the Autarch, Farseer and Spirit Seer. Also, it does not seem to preclude any other wargear or bonuses.

So, you could potentially have a WS/BS 6 Autarch on a Jetbike with a Banshee Mask (opponents strike at I -5, which guarantees his I 6 will always strike first -- thanks to his plasma grenades) with a Fusion Gun and the Shard of Anaris for about 180 points. You'd be fearless, St 5, T 4 with a 4+ invulnerable and a re-rollable 2+ coversave (1+ if you go flat out, right?) capable of inflicting instant death in CC -- and any vehicle the fusion gun fails to take out can be hit by your haywire grenades.

Is there a better combo out there? You can make your Spiritseer into a Solitaire and you still get the benefit of Telepathy/Runes of Battle and making Wraithguard troops. Farseer could be interesting if you roll up the Death Mission power, but that's not a guarantee, unfortunately.

Any other thoughts on how to best use this?

 felixander wrote:

 shamikebab wrote:
I think pretty much every style has had some sort of boost, in order I'd say probably:

Windriders - jetbikes boost and other skimmers BS4
Swordwind - Most of the Aspects have got buffed nicely
Wraith - Wraithknight, Wraithlord no longer twin linked, wraithblades
Footdar - Boost to aspects and Guardians definitely more effective.

The only thing that seems slightly worse is psychic powers, but perhaps we're just less reliant on them this time.

I should reiterate... it's not the boosts they were looking for

You can't always get what you want. But if you try sometimes... You get what you need.

 pretre wrote:

 felixander wrote:

 shamikebab wrote:
I think pretty much every style has had some sort of boost, in order I'd say probably:

Windriders - jetbikes boost and other skimmers BS4
Swordwind - Most of the Aspects have got buffed nicely
Wraith - Wraithknight, Wraithlord no longer twin linked, wraithblades
Footdar - Boost to aspects and Guardians definitely more effective.

The only thing that seems slightly worse is psychic powers, but perhaps we're just less reliant on them this time.

I should reiterate... it's not the boosts they were looking for

You can't always get what you want. But if you try sometimes... You get what you need.

hey!!! that's a song!!

I dig it

Lets have some sympathy for the devil!

Goobi2 wrote:
Normal Reapers can get the Krak missile variant for a little less than 10 extra points.

You can say 9 or 8 points you know. Being cryptic doesn't help anyway.

And is that per model or per unit?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Goobi2 wrote:
Normal Reapers can get the Krak missile variant for a little less than 10 extra points.

You can say 9 or 8 points you know. Being cryptic doesn't help anyway.

And is that per model or per unit?

Per model it seems.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Goobi2 wrote:
Normal Reapers can get the Krak missile variant for a little less than 10 extra points.

You can say 9 or 8 points you know. Being cryptic doesn't help anyway.

And is that per model or per unit?

Yeah, I thought we were past that whole 'My Wraithknight costs as much as 80 smoke launchers' business.

I still don't understand how most people see the locks as being nerfed. Everyone seems to be only thinking about splitting them up while I think their greatest threntgh lies in functioning as a council. With a bit of luck you'll have one or more of your favorite debuffs. So failing your test isn't the end of the world.

Give a couple of termies the -1 save malediction and see your dark reapers and prisms eat them alive.

SS termies charged your wraithguard? Apply the -1str malediction and now they're wounding your wraithguard on 4+.

Spam snipers and EML's and apply the -3 ld malediction and see the enemy fail almost half their pinnig tests.

Your opponent has a psyker heavy army and you don't want to risk witch rolls? Simple, just use the blessings on your council instead, they benefit quite well from 4 out of the 6 blessings.

Your opponent will think twice before he gets anywhere near these guys thus giving you a huge area of denial. Used well in conjunction with the rest of your army a seercouncil will be nothing to sneeze at. They're probably the most versatile unit we have now in an army of specialists. (beside spiders maybe but those guys are just OP)

To the lucky people who already have their codices (mine won't ship 'till Wednesday as my order included items that were store only... "yay")
Prisms can still boost each other?

Even with the force org not getting the autarch boost it needed, still thinking, rangers, storm guardians in WSs, and three warp spider squads.

Did they give warp spiders back their flame templates or do they somehow still shoot solid rounds of webbing?

 Popenfresh wrote:

Give a couple of termies the -1 save malediction and see your dark reapers and prisms eat them alive.

"One enemy unit within 18" has -1 Armour Save"

I'm looking forward to seeing the first grognard who tries to use the literal RAW interpretation of this power, and claim it makes his power armour go from 3+ to 2+...

Col. Dash wrote:
Even with the force org not getting the autarch boost it needed, still thinking, rangers, storm guardians in WSs, and three warp spider squads.

Did they give warp spiders back their flame templates or do they somehow still shoot solid rounds of webbing?

No its assault 2, Str6, monofiliment which is rending vs. infantry only and +1Str vs. models with <3I. So str 7 vs. vehicles. Their jump generator allows them to go 6+2d6"

Col. Dash wrote:
Even with the force org not getting the autarch boost it needed, still thinking, rangers, storm guardians in WSs, and three warp spider squads.

Did they give warp spiders back their flame templates or do they somehow still shoot solid rounds of webbing?

Spiders kept the same gun 2 shot Strength 6 but it turn to Strength 7 against vehicles and anything i3 or less I used them as tank hunters before 3 squads of 5 and they only got better... and cheaper points wise!

 Shandara wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Goobi2 wrote:
Normal Reapers can get the Krak missile variant for a little less than 10 extra points.

You can say 9 or 8 points you know. Being cryptic doesn't help anyway.

And is that per model or per unit?

Per model it seems.

Last i Checked it was just the exarch, not the entire unit. Which sucks balls.

 Popenfresh wrote:
I still don't understand how most people see the locks as being nerfed. Everyone seems to be only thinking about splitting them up while I think their greatest threntgh lies in functioning as a council. With a bit of luck you'll have one or more of your favorite debuffs. So failing your test isn't the end of the world.

Give a couple of termies the -1 save malediction and see your dark reapers and prisms eat them alive.

SS termies charged your wraithguard? Apply the -1str malediction and now they're wounding your wraithguard on 4+.

Spam snipers and EML's and apply the -3 ld malediction and see the enemy fail almost half their pinnig tests.

Your opponent has a psyker heavy army and you don't want to risk witch rolls? Simple, just use the blessings on your council instead, they benefit quite well from 4 out of the 6 blessings.

Your opponent will think twice before he gets anywhere near these guys thus giving you a huge area of denial. Used well in conjunction with the rest of your army a seercouncil will be nothing to sneeze at. They're probably the most versatile unit we have now in an army of specialists. (beside spiders maybe but those guys are just OP)

I agree Popenfresh...kinda....I like all the buffs but counting on the maeldictions....they have two problems

18" range
psychic powers are before movement.

That means you needed to be within 18" of the damn terminator the turn BEFORE then he moves up shoots you maybe assaults you....alittle to close for comfort for such an expensive unit. NOT SAYING IT ISNT DOABLE, but it is not as simple or as safe as it could be.

Even if you put them on jetbikes which can charge a country mile, you might have been out of range to hit the target you want to charge with all the maledictions you wanted to use.

So which is better - our brotherly version of poison everything or our upgraded ninja stars?

 xttz wrote:

 Popenfresh wrote:

Give a couple of termies the -1 save malediction and see your dark reapers and prisms eat them alive.

"One enemy unit within 18" has -1 Armour Save"

I'm looking forward to seeing the first grognard who tries to use the literal RAW interpretation of this power, and claim it makes his power armour go from 3+ to 2+...

As funny as that would be I don't think anyone, even amongst 40k community, would have that kind of audacity.

This got me thinking though, cover saves differ from armor saves so I'm pretty sure you can't raise/decreased cover throws, but I'm wondering if the buff/debuff also applies to inv. saves...

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
So which is better - our brotherly version of poison everything or our upgraded ninja stars?

It depends heavily on your meta. If you fight orks/gaunts, guard/daemon hordes all the time, the shurikens are usually better. After all, a 4+ poinson weapon used on a T3 guardsmen is worse than a plain s4 bolter.

If you see lots of nidzilla, plague marines, and such, poison may come out a bit ahead. But on average, I think shuriken stuff beats poison now.

 Popenfresh wrote:

 xttz wrote:

 Popenfresh wrote:

Give a couple of termies the -1 save malediction and see your dark reapers and prisms eat them alive.

"One enemy unit within 18" has -1 Armour Save"

I'm looking forward to seeing the first grognard who tries to use the literal RAW interpretation of this power, and claim it makes his power armour go from 3+ to 2+...

As funny as that would be I don't think anyone, even amongst 40k community, would have that kind of audacity.

This got me thinking though, cover saves differ from armor saves so I'm pretty sure you can't raise/decreased cover throws, but I'm wondering if the buff/debuff also applies to inv. saves...

put them on jetbikes so they have a 2+/4++ and a 3++ cover!! noice!!!!

What in the army can capably deal with 1 or 2 Great Unclean Ones with Iron arm?

 Sephyr wrote:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
So which is better - our brotherly version of poison everything or our upgraded ninja stars?

It depends heavily on your meta. If you fight orks/gaunts, guard/daemon hordes all the time, the shurikens are usually better. After all, a 4+ poinson weapon used on a T3 guardsmen is worse than a plain s4 bolter.

If you see lots of nidzilla, plague marines, and such, poison may come out a bit ahead. But on average, I think shuriken stuff beats poison now.

Big difference thou is Guardian vs Cabalite range, 12 vs 24". At same cost.

 airmang wrote:
What in the army can capably deal with 1 or 2 Great Unclean Ones with Iron arm?

Guardians. Jetbikes. Heck, everything with Shuris.

 pretre wrote:

 airmang wrote:
What in the army can capably deal with 1 or 2 Great Unclean Ones with Iron arm?

Guardians. Jetbikes. Heck, everything with Shuris.

Not sure how Shuriken cats are going to hurt T8+? All they do is become AP2.

 Sephyr wrote:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
So which is better - our brotherly version of poison everything or our upgraded ninja stars?

It depends heavily on your meta. If you fight orks/gaunts, guard/daemon hordes all the time, the shurikens are usually better. After all, a 4+ poinson weapon used on a T3 guardsmen is worse than a plain s4 bolter.

If you see lots of nidzilla, plague marines, and such, poison may come out a bit ahead. But on average, I think shuriken stuff beats poison now.

Don't forget Bladestorm wins or ties when it's 3+ armor save (assuming there's no cover or invuln backup). So Shuriken is actually better against Plague Marines and most Nids.

 airmang wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 airmang wrote:
What in the army can capably deal with 1 or 2 Great Unclean Ones with Iron arm?

Guardians. Jetbikes. Heck, everything with Shuris.

Not sure how Shuriken cats are going to hurt T8+? All they do is become AP2.

To Wound 6 = autowound

The 12 inch range on the catapults is not that bad.

People forget that almost all the eldar have fleet and fleet lets you RE-ROLL run rolls.

So you are looking at moving 6 , then a 3-4 inch run plus the 12 inch range, is a 21-22 inch threat range.

And when it comes to board control and moving re-rolling run rolls will be big in the hands of good player.

 airmang wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 airmang wrote:
What in the army can capably deal with 1 or 2 Great Unclean Ones with Iron arm?

Guardians. Jetbikes. Heck, everything with Shuris.

Not sure how Shuriken cats are going to hurt T8+? All they do is become AP2.

From the first post:

I can tell you their Shuriken catapults are still 12", although with the new Bladestorm rule(rolls of 6 to wound always wound at AP 2, no effect on vehicles

So every model in the army can hurt your T9million guy.

Does that mean they auto -wound, regardless of Toughness?

 airmang wrote:
Does that mean they auto -wound, regardless of Toughness?

That is the rumor.

Well, then that's just awesome!

Will DE 'quins get rending pistols and the new(old) shadowseer rules?

 D6Damager wrote:
Their jump generator allows them to go 6+2d6"

Just a clarification.

They can move 6" as a Jetpack unit in the movement phase without penalty. If they take the 6"+2d6, one model is removed on a roll of doubles.
Then they could take the run+move/move+run during the Shooting phase.
Then they could move 2d6" during the Assault Phase because they're Jetpacks.

They're hilariously mobile.

 Absolutionis wrote:

 D6Damager wrote:
Their jump generator allows them to go 6+2d6"

Just a clarification.

They can move 6" as a Jetpack unit in the movement phase without penalty. If they take the 6"+2d6, one model is removed on a roll of doubles.
Then they could take the run+move/move+run during the Shooting phase.
Then they could move 2d6" during the Assault Phase because they're Jetpacks.

They're hilariously mobile.

I literally took a chance and picked up a friends 18 spiders as he wasn't using them. So glad I did, as I still see them as the premier FA slot.

And I really just like the look of the spider models.

Theorius wrote:
That means you needed to be within 18" of the damn terminator the turn BEFORE then he moves up shoots you maybe assaults you....alittle to close for comfort for such an expensive unit. NOT SAYING IT ISNT DOABLE, but it is not as simple or as safe as it could be.

Well, really, you have to be 24" away from the Terminator at the end of your turn, because you damn well know that terminator is going to move six inches towards you on HIS turn.

milo wrote:

Theorius wrote:
That means you needed to be within 18" of the damn terminator the turn BEFORE then he moves up shoots you maybe assaults you....alittle to close for comfort for such an expensive unit. NOT SAYING IT ISNT DOABLE, but it is not as simple or as safe as it could be.

Well, really, you have to be 24" away from the Terminator at the end of your turn, because you damn well know that terminator is going to move six inches towards you on HIS turn.

If I was a terminator and knew you had that malediction and I knew my guns has 24" range then I would not be within 18" of you for sure.....

If I was a hammernator then I don't care as I have a 3++ anyways.

Theorius wrote:

milo wrote:

Theorius wrote:
That means you needed to be within 18" of the damn terminator the turn BEFORE then he moves up shoots you maybe assaults you....alittle to close for comfort for such an expensive unit. NOT SAYING IT ISNT DOABLE, but it is not as simple or as safe as it could be.

Well, really, you have to be 24" away from the Terminator at the end of your turn, because you damn well know that terminator is going to move six inches towards you on HIS turn.

If I was a terminator and knew you had that malediction and I knew my guns has 24" range then I would not be within 18" of you for sure.....

If I was a hammernator then I don't care as I have a 3++ anyways.

Well, that's a fair point.

I am curious is the Wraithknight a character ? Like the wraithlord ?

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
I am curious is the Wraithknight a character ? Like the wraithlord ?

is the wraithlord still a character as well?

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
I am curious is the Wraithknight a character ? Like the wraithlord ?

Jump MC. WL is a Character, while WK isn't

Kind of a weird thing... the Spiritseer has the special rule "Spirit Mark" which lets wraith units re-roll To Hit rolls of 1. This ability also affects Hemlock Wraithfighters. BUT... Hemlock Wraithfighters only have Heavy D-Scythes, which are blast weapons... How would this work?

yeah, and ridiculouse T8..., seriously even a Nurgle GUO does'nt have a T higher then 6...and its a freakin Mountain of flesh.

But eldars put some sticks and barrels togheter and oh look a T8 creature!...

I'm glad that Holofield got changed though... we weren't calling it gakky-Field for nothing in France & Belgium(play on words from the french name of Holofield, Field=Champ, Champ=Chiant, Chiant=gakky, Holo-chiant= Shittyfield).

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
yeah, and ridiculouse T8..., seriously even a Nurgle GUO does'nt have a T higher then 6...and its a freakin Mountain of flesh.

But eldars put some sticks and barrels togheter and oh look a T8 creature!...

Wait, let me get this right. Something made out of non-living material is tougher than something made of flesh? NO WAI!

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
yeah, and ridiculouse T8..., seriously even a Nurgle GUO does'nt have a T higher then 6...and its a freakin Mountain of flesh.

But eldars put some sticks and barrels togheter and oh look a T8 creature!....

This has been discussed a million times.

The best example someone put forth (I forget who) is that a lampost is thinner than an elephant, but if you have a gun the elephant will stop elephanting before the lamppost stops lamposting. The point is that the Wraithlord is essentially as tough as a vehicle.

Now imagine the elephant has no concept of pain, and the lamppost is made from the same material that a high-tech society makes their main battle tanks out of. Lamppost wins even more.

 Absolutionis wrote:

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
yeah, and ridiculouse T8..., seriously even a Nurgle GUO does'nt have a T higher then 6...and its a freakin Mountain of flesh.

But eldars put some sticks and barrels togheter and oh look a T8 creature!....

This has been discussed a million times.

The best example someone put forth (I forget who) is that a lampost is thinner than an elephant, but if you have a gun the elephant will stop elephanting before the lamppost stops lamposting. The point is that the Wraithlord is essentially as tough as a vehicle.

Now imagine the elephant has no concept of pain, and the lamppost is made from the same material that a high-tech society makes their main battle tanks out of. Lamppost wins even more.

Ha, ha. Not that close.

Have you ever hunted ? It takes a perfect shot to down a large animal with a pretty big caliber gun. I would say it is easier to down the lamp post. Hell some water buffalo have such a high bone density, bullet bounce off them.

You cant glance the animal. But you can glance the lamp post to death.

So you don't get the point?

It can't feel pain, there's no blood to lose, no muscles or tendons to rip... as far as we know there's not even any electrical currents to disrupt!

it's simply made from the stuff that make up Eldar battletanks, spaceships and craftworlds.
And you whine about it being tough?

the thing's been T8 since 3rd ed. as far as I know... and people still whine!?

Let's just chalk it up to GUO's having osteoporosis as one of their standard diseases.

 Enigma wrote:
the thing's been T8 since 3rd ed. as far as I know... and people still whine!?

We'll stop when Eldar players stop going on about 12" shuricats, which is just as old.

People might want to check out Tasty's latest post on bloodofkittens. It is enlightening.

 Enigma wrote:
So you don't get the point?

It can't feel pain, there's no blood to lose, no muscles or tendons to rip... as far as we know there's not even any electrical currents to disrupt!

it's simply made from the stuff that make up Eldar battletanks, spaceships and craftworlds.
And you whine about it being tough?

the thing's been T8 since 3rd ed. as far as I know... and people still whine!?

If it is made from the same stuff why don't the Warwalkers and tanks have T instead of armor ? Or why don't Wraith units have armor =P ?

But, now that we know it can only shoot 2 weapons and it is not a character it is much eater to deal with or ignore.

I'm curious, has the Dark Reaper fluff changed, or is their having Slow and Purposeful contradicting the fluff of their armour locking them to the ground for stability?

Wraithlords are still characters, for whoever asked earlier. WK are not.

 pretre wrote:

 airmang wrote:
Does that mean they auto -wound, regardless of Toughness?

That is the rumor.

It's not a rumor. Plenty of people have the codex now.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

 Enigma wrote:
So you don't get the point?

It can't feel pain, there's no blood to lose, no muscles or tendons to rip... as far as we know there's not even any electrical currents to disrupt!

it's simply made from the stuff that make up Eldar battletanks, spaceships and craftworlds.
And you whine about it being tough?

the thing's been T8 since 3rd ed. as far as I know... and people still whine!?

If it is made from the same stuff why don't the Warwalkers and tanks have T instead of armor ? Or why don't Wraith units have armor =P ?

But, now that we know it can only shoot 2 weapons and it is not a character it is much eater to deal with or ignore.

Now let's see... If I remember correctly it's vehicles which use the armour rule instead of T. you know, like war walkers? you know, things that are piloted by a living creature? and not creatures like say guardsmen, orks, hive tyrants or wraithlords. Do you tell me that Necrons should have an armour value as well?

 Enigma wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

 Enigma wrote:
So you don't get the point?

It can't feel pain, there's no blood to lose, no muscles or tendons to rip... as far as we know there's not even any electrical currents to disrupt!

it's simply made from the stuff that make up Eldar battletanks, spaceships and craftworlds.
And you whine about it being tough?

the thing's been T8 since 3rd ed. as far as I know... and people still whine!?

If it is made from the same stuff why don't the Warwalkers and tanks have T instead of armor ? Or why don't Wraith units have armor =P ?

But, now that we know it can only shoot 2 weapons and it is not a character it is much eater to deal with or ignore.

Now let's see... If I remember correctly it's vehicles which use the armour rule instead of T. you know, like war walkers? you know, things that are piloted by a living creature? and not creatures like say guardsmen, orks, hive tyrants or wraithlords. Do you tell me that Necrons should have an armour value as

Wraithknight has a living pilot. So it is closer to a dreadnaught or a war walker, which have armor......

Also I believe the phantoms and reavers in the IMP ARMOR book are armor as well. That I cant say for certain though.

Yes I know, and I must say that I agree with you on that one. The problem here is that half of it is "piloted" by the soul of the pilots dead sibling, just as if it was a wraithlord...

Probably they made it use T instead of Armour as it's far too easy to wreck vehicles in this ed.... and then it wouldn't sell -.-

But I agree, the knight should probably fall under the vehicle category.

---<Edit>---
Yes, they are super heavy walkers... It feels as if we should get a new class of vehicle to represent these weird almost titans. like super-heavy light walker

 pretre wrote:
People might want to check out Tasty's latest post on bloodofkittens. It is enlightening.

Thanks for that. The 37 jpgs I just copied to my hard drive are filling the void that not receiving my army book yet has left.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

 Enigma wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

 Enigma wrote:
So you don't get the point?

It can't feel pain, there's no blood to lose, no muscles or tendons to rip... as far as we know there's not even any electrical currents to disrupt!

it's simply made from the stuff that make up Eldar battletanks, spaceships and craftworlds.
And you whine about it being tough?

the thing's been T8 since 3rd ed. as far as I know... and people still whine!?

If it is made from the same stuff why don't the Warwalkers and tanks have T instead of armor ? Or why don't Wraith units have armor =P ?

But, now that we know it can only shoot 2 weapons and it is not a character it is much eater to deal with or ignore.

Now let's see... If I remember correctly it's vehicles which use the armour rule instead of T. you know, like war walkers? you know, things that are piloted by a living creature? and not creatures like say guardsmen, orks, hive tyrants or wraithlords. Do you tell me that Necrons should have an armour value as

Wraithknight has a living pilot. So it is closer to a dreadnaught or a war walker

Maybe - and hopefully to be realistic rather than cynical - Games Workshop is aware that monstrous creatures are superior to walkers (generally) and that they need at least workable rules for their big new releases?

 Enigma wrote:
Yes I know, and I must say that I agree with you on that one. The problem here is that half of it is "piloted" by the soul of the pilots dead sibling, just as if it was a wraithlord...

Probably they made it use T instead of Armour as it's far too easy to wreck vehicles in this ed.... and then it wouldn't sell -.-

But I agree, the knight should probably fall under the vehicle category.

---<Edit>---
Yes, they are super heavy walkers... It feels as if we should get a new class of vehicle to represent these weird almost titans. like super-heavy light walker

Agreed =)

If they made it armor no one would want it

I really hope that orks BIG things isnt an armored unit lol


Funny thing is since it does have a pilot, I feel it should be a character and not the wraithlord.

lokust2501 wrote:

 pretre wrote:
People might want to check out Tasty's latest post on bloodofkittens. It is enlightening.

Thanks for that. The 37 jpgs I just copied to my hard drive are filling the void that not receiving my army book yet has left.

I pick up my copy tomorrow, so I don't think I'm going to bother with more than looking them over on my browser...but it is interesting to note that allied CWE can't bring Warlocks with them. Same sort of wording that keeps me from using a Herald of Tzeentch as a cheap HQ to ally Daemons to my 1KSons.

lokust2501 wrote:

 pretre wrote:
People might want to check out Tasty's latest post on bloodofkittens. It is enlightening.

Thanks for that. The 37 jpgs I just copied to my hard drive are filling the void that not receiving my army book yet has left.

Mine was in PDF format.

shade1313 wrote:

lokust2501 wrote:

 pretre wrote:
People might want to check out Tasty's latest post on bloodofkittens. It is enlightening.

Thanks for that. The 37 jpgs I just copied to my hard drive are filling the void that not receiving my army book yet has left.

I pick up my copy tomorrow, so I don't think I'm going to bother with more than looking them over on my browser...but it is interesting to note that allied CWE can't bring Warlocks with them. Same sort of wording that keeps me from using a Herald of Tzeentch as a cheap HQ to ally Daemons to my 1KSons.

I don't believe there's anything stopping you from using a single Tzeentch Herald in your allied detachment. You just can't get 4 Heralds in one slot.

undertow wrote:I don't believe there's anything stopping you from using a single Tzeentch Herald in your allied detachment. You just can't get 4 Heralds in one slot.

I'm sure you could get 4 Slaneesh one's though....

 Uriels_Flame wrote:

undertow wrote:I don't believe there's anything stopping you from using a single Tzeentch Herald in your allied detachment. You just can't get 4 Heralds in one slot.

I'm sure you could get 4 Slaneesh one's though....

Nicely done.

 undertow wrote:

shade1313 wrote:

lokust2501 wrote:

 pretre wrote:
People might want to check out Tasty's latest post on bloodofkittens. It is enlightening.

Thanks for that. The 37 jpgs I just copied to my hard drive are filling the void that not receiving my army book yet has left.

I pick up my copy tomorrow, so I don't think I'm going to bother with more than looking them over on my browser...but it is interesting to note that allied CWE can't bring Warlocks with them. Same sort of wording that keeps me from using a Herald of Tzeentch as a cheap HQ to ally Daemons to my 1KSons.

I don't believe there's anything stopping you from using a single Tzeentch Herald in your allied detachment. You just can't get 4 Heralds in one slot.

I don't know. The wording is awkward, and reads to me like taking up to four in one slot is the only way to take them, and only in a primary detachment.

Double post, waiting to see if it rectifies itself.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

 Enigma wrote:
Yes I know, and I must say that I agree with you on that one. The problem here is that half of it is "piloted" by the soul of the pilots dead sibling, just as if it was a wraithlord...

Probably they made it use T instead of Armour as it's far too easy to wreck vehicles in this ed.... and then it wouldn't sell -.-

But I agree, the knight should probably fall under the vehicle category.

---<Edit>---
Yes, they are super heavy walkers... It feels as if we should get a new class of vehicle to represent these weird almost titans. like super-heavy light walker

Agreed =)

If they made it armor no one would want it

I really hope that orks BIG things isnt an armored unit lol


Funny thing is since it does have a pilot, I feel it should be a character and not the wraithlord.

I'd love to see them get a squigoth! damn that'd be awesome!

Thanks!

Seriously, I keep forgetting Karandas and the other Aspect heads have a 2+ Save. He is such a freaking full of angst bad space elf plus he gets stalker/back stabbing. Geesh.

Hemlock Fighter is 185pts too for possible fragile one trick wonder...

I was hoping for an Exodar update, but I suppose that will be one of those $50 updates...

Yeah, I'm finally going to be getting around to painting my Karandras. Need to figure out how to convert it, 'cause while he's a pretty badass model, the pose is still pretty bland.

I don't want to say the codex is bad, because I actually really like parts of it. But it's WIERD. Like, for instance, the fact that the Autarch can get Aspect wargear, but not aspect abilities. The random assignment of Warlock powers AFTER placing them into squads. The weapon problems the Knight has.

I think if I was going to be able to change one thing, I'd make it so that selecting a Phoenix Lord as a HQ would allow you to take two matching aspect warrior squads as troops. But then, I am a Biel-Tan player by nature.

I don't get the randomness of psychic powers at all, but then again, with me that goes way back to 3rd edition and the extra psychic powers that came out in Chapter Approved. They added some real fun to playing psykers, but my buddy and I immediately dispensed with the "random roll" feature and just chose which power we wanted for the 10 points apiece.

Quick wording question about Monofilament - just by the way it's written.

Does the first part have to happen for the other to take place?

Meaning- the target of the hit have to be Int 3 or less to gain the +1 Str - I understand that. But for the Auto AP 1 effect to take place on a Wound roll of a 6, does that also only affect the Int 3 or less model?

They're written in two different sentences, but lack of editing is making me question myself or if I'm just reading too much into it.

 pretre wrote:
People might want to check out Tasty's latest post on bloodofkittens. It is enlightening.

You sir are a scholar and a gentleman!

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Quick wording question about Monofilament - just by the way it's written.

Does the first part have to happen for the other to take place?

Meaning- the target of the hit have to be Int 3 or less to gain the +1 Str - I understand that. But for the Auto AP 1 effect to take place on a Wound roll of a 6, does that also only affect the Int 3 or less model?

They're written in two different sentences, but lack of editing is making me question myself or if I'm just reading too much into it.

You're reading too much into it.

Check the Shining Spears... I think they really 'shine' now

I LOVE YOU BLOOD OF KITTENS!

I've been gorging on this for a while and when I came to the psyker powers :O So much potential cheese! Fortune now effects dark eldar and tau, WOOT WOOT! The only way to get runes of battle into another army is through the spirit seer as allied general (only IC with access to it) but it could be interesting to see tau with a 3+ save and fearless, they'd be like blue marines with super guns! Also looks like the dire avenger exarch is a BEAST in challenges, usually over 50% chance to take away your opponents power weapon (disarm enemy) then you hit him with ap 2 at I which does bonesword insta death, if he lives his attacks will be against your 3+ armour! Eldrad is a beast MC slayer and the only eldar who can cast 2 big Runes of fate spells (which I'll be honest are kinda weird considering it has 3 times as many witchfires as runes of BATTLE, and some ganky blessing..but FORTUNE!) and with spiritlink maybe have room to cast guide aswell!

milo wrote:
I don't want to say the codex is bad, because I actually really like parts of it. But it's WIERD. Like, for instance, the fact that the Autarch can get Aspect wargear, but not aspect abilities.

I've seen many people complain about this, but it actually makes perfect sense. Autarch is an Eldar who has trained in many aspect paths, but is not an Exarch. Exarchs are locked in one path and can never leave it; they embody their path. It makes perfect sense that Autarchs can use aspect gear but don't have Exarch abilities. Autarch is not some sort of a super Exarch, that's Phoenix Lords.

milo wrote:
I don't want to say the codex is bad, because I actually really like parts of it. But it's WIERD. Like, for instance, the fact that the Autarch can get Aspect wargear, but not aspect abilities. The random assignment of Warlock powers AFTER placing them into squads. The weapon problems the Knight has.

I feel exactly the same way. There's a whole lot of "that's pretty cool, but..." in the book. Which is likely intentional, since nobody but Marines are allowed to be good at everything, but it's still a little vexing.

milo wrote:

I think if I was going to be able to change one thing, I'd make it so that selecting a Phoenix Lord as a HQ would allow you to take two matching aspect warrior squads as troops. But then, I am a Biel-Tan player by nature.

Emphasis mine, but I think you've already explained why we didn't get that sort of FOC shenanigans. We'll have a better idea when the Iyanden book is actually out, but at the moment it looks rather like GW is going to perhaps decide to hit up the big Craftworlds with their own books. Minimal rules, maximum fluff, but even minimal rules can seriously change the way an army plays.

While the basic codex can cover all the traditional bases, it still leaves them a lot of room to tweak the forces for the individual Craftworld books. So, Biel-tan could have a different FOC for Aspects; Alaitoc some unique scout/infiltration rules; Iyanden yet more wraithyness; Ulthwe could have better Warlocks/Seers/Guardians (though I don't know what they'd do to make Black Guardians any better than regular Guardians these days... Maybe +1 LD?) and Saim-Hann could have more jetbikes than your body has room for.

Besides, this way they can hit up Eldar players for another $50 for each variation they want to use.

 Miguelsan wrote:


And I forgot, if the point is selling new stuff why the HS slot is full to the brim with 8 units and there are only 4 in the Elite slot plus one that currently pointless (and one of those can be taken as troops) is there another army with such a melee in the HS slot?

8 is a tiny amount, try being Imperial Guard - 13 choices.

Well the rumors have been interesting and the leaked codex had me a bit gruff about some things but what really gets me is this.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440161a&prodId=prod2100002a

GW is offering a one click Saim-Hann deal. I actually thought I might order this except I would rather have 2 Fire Prisms than 1 and a Falcon, so I added up the cost of the individual units expecting to pay the same price and I was right both are $273.25. The only trouble with that is if I buy it all individually I get 3 Vipers not 2. So if you buy the GW one click deal they are basically screwing you out of $25.

So I guess I won't be building an Eldar army after all.

 Nicorex wrote:
Well the rumors have been interesting and the leaked codex had me a bit gruff about some things but what really gets me is this.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440161a&prodId=prod2100002a

GW is offering a one click Saim-Hann deal. I actually thought I might order this except I would rather have 2 Fire Prisms than 1 and a Falcon, so I added up the cost of the individual units expecting to pay the same price and I was right both are $273.25. The only trouble with that is if I buy it all individually I get 3 Vipers not 2. So if you buy the GW one click deal they are basically screwing you out of $25.

So I guess I won't be building an Eldar army after all.

Why not buy from an alternate source which almost universally sells for less than GW themselves?

If I was going to buy this I would order it from my FLGS. That wasnt my point.

I might be missing a rule somewhere... but the entry for Swooping Hawks has Herald of Victory and Skyleap... and they count as Jump Infantry.... does its say somewhere that they get Deepstrike?