Ok so it comes with weapons at the very least. That's nice. Don't really get why the EML would be worth more than the others though.

 Crimson wrote:
I too could care less about that, although my level of caring is still not terribly high. How much less could you care?

At least have the decency to link to what you're talking about.

Looks like GW will start Q1 with a bang! They ended Q4 with Tau and High Elves. Should be interesting to see their year end financial statements.

I will be picking up some stuff with this release since I was able to find some dire avengers this last weekend and avoid the 5 for $35 rush that ensued shortly after...

Same here. My 10 arrived yesterday. I figure I will make 2 exarchs out of the kit, since I have about 18 metal ones from 2nd edition.

 Crimson wrote:

GTKA666 wrote:

if that is true then WW got better and I could care less if they are open topped since....well evrything else is going to have been blown up

I too could care less about that, although my level of caring is still not terribly high. How much less could you care?

I care less than an ork player loosing a few ork boys in a 30 man squad.

 Carthuun wrote:
Same here. My 10 arrived yesterday. I figure I will make 2 exarchs out of the kit, since I have about 18 metal ones from 2nd edition.

I would be looking for cheap Jetbikes before anything else, Avengers weren't great before and they really haven't changed that much.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Ok so it comes with weapons at the very least. That's nice. Don't really get why the EML would be worth more than the others though.

 Crimson wrote:
I too could care less about that, although my level of caring is still not terribly high. How much less could you care?

At least have the decency to link to what you're talking about.

Because GW have gone from having no idea how to price heavy anti tank/Lance weapons in 5th to have no idea how to price anti air weapons in 6th. In an army full of quasi rending weapons the value of a flexible weapon like the Missile Launcher drops, but they clearly don't realise that.

KaiyaA wrote:

Darge wrote:
Alright! Weapons section is complete. All the new weapon profiles have been added(from Raziel's list at least) Might not be able to get Psychic Powers done till tomorow, but I might get relics added in later tonight.


http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/463557/5671458.page#5671458

Just wanted to express my appreciation with what you're doing here. I for one dislike the chaos and lack of organisation on the 4chan boards and it's so much easier and simpler the way you're doing it here. Thanks a lot!

Lol I couldn't agree more about 4 chan, I've never even been on it before yesterday, god that's an awful layout(couldn't keep me away from eldar rumors though XD). It's what made me start compiling the info as I did just for myself, it occurred to me later that I should probably share XP. I'm gonna go back in and update some more info based off some leaked photos i found.

For those that want to see them check out yriel.blogspot.com and check his latest post. His blog is a really good read and he posts semi frequently.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What does the War Walker get for that 60 points? 60 points is a lot of points in this Hull Point-filled world.

It gained BS4, a 5++ sv, and comes with two weapons base that cause twin linking if the first hits.

Darge wrote:

KaiyaA wrote:

Darge wrote:
Alright! Weapons section is complete. All the new weapon profiles have been added(from Raziel's list at least) Might not be able to get Psychic Powers done till tomorow, but I might get relics added in later tonight.


http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/463557/5671458.page#5671458

Just wanted to express my appreciation with what you're doing here. I for one dislike the chaos and lack of organisation on the 4chan boards and it's so much easier and simpler the way you're doing it here. Thanks a lot!

Lol I couldn't agree more about 4 chan, I've never even been on it before yesterday, god that's an awful layout(couldn't keep me away from eldar rumors though XD). It's what made me start compiling the info as I did just for myself, it occurred to me later that I should probably share XP. I'm gonna go back in and update some more info based off some leaked photos i found.

For those that want to see them check out yriel.blogspot.com and check his latest post. His blog is a really good read and he posts semi frequently.

Yeah I ended up just pressing "ctrl f" and searching Raziel to find his posts. It's just awful in general.

I'm looking at the blog now. Quite decent analysis and summary of the codex! Thanks for the recommendation!

4Chan's a weird place, but you get used to the layout eventually.

 D6Damager wrote:
It gained BS4, a 5++ sv, and comes with two weapons base that cause twin linking if the first hits.

I keep forgetting about the BS4. That's important. Must remember that.

I've been trying to plow thu the rumors so I know how to build my two boxes of dire avengers. Anyone have any recommendations on how I should build the exarchs? I'm assuming units of 10 will be solid?

 D6Damager wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What does the War Walker get for that 60 points? 60 points is a lot of points in this Hull Point-filled world.

It gained BS4, a 5++ sv, and comes with two weapons base that cause twin linking if the first hits.

Scatters have this rule, not Shuriken, and they only work if you have a 2nd weapon that is not a Scatter Laser. The wording of the rule means you fire all weapons with Laser Lock (i.e all Scatter Lasers) first.

I debate how useful that really is though.

I mean, Scatter Laser/Bright Lance.

You fire the Scatter Lasers on all three WW's first. Assume that one from each of them hits (pretty easy with 4 shots at BS4). So now you've got 3 twin-linked Bright Lance shots and you'll probably get 3 hits. Whereas 3 WW's with 2 BL's each... is 4 hits at BS4. Why do you need the "laser lock" ability at all?


It certainly ain't no marker light...

The most common loadouts before was Dual Catapults (w/ Bladestorm) and Power Weapon / Shimmershield (combo'd well with Defend). Dual is now "Twin Linked", which is not a good investment for a BS5 character unless it's really cheap.

The new Exarch powers are all defensive oriented, so I could see value in having a Power Weapon / Shimmershield DA squad be on the front lines - have a counter assault ready, though.

Without having a good feel for run+shoot I'm not really sure about any of this, though.

Quark wrote:
The most common loadouts before was Dual Catapults (w/ Bladestorm) and Power Weapon / Shimmershield (combo'd well with Defend). Dual is now "Twin Linked", which is not a good investment for a BS5 character unless it's really cheap.

The new Exarch powers are all defensive oriented, so I could see value in having a Power Weapon / Shimmershield DA squad be on the front lines - have a counter assault ready, though.

Without having a good feel for run+shoot I'm not really sure about any of this, though.

in other words, test like your a new player and once you have a new feel for the lovely Eldar your lists will soon change less and less and then you will have "your list".

Unfortunately Laser lock doesn't work like i posted in my info(havn't had a chance to update it yet with new info)

Laser Lock only works on the Model that fires the Scatter Laser, so every War Walker will have to have one and most other vehicles will just have their shuriken cannon twin linked(fallons can have 4 S6 AP 6, 2 S8 Ap 2 twin link shots, and 3 S6 AP 6 twin link shots though so that's not terrible.)

But for Guardian's it will be useless so Star Cannon or Bright Lance will be better suited I think. Whats really Nice is having 3 different weapon options with three different targets for the same 15 pts
Scatter Laser-Anti horde
Star Cannon- Anti TEQ or MEQ
Bright Lance- Heavy Armored Vehicles

So it makes altering lists really easy, to bad for 25 pt EML....

Actually a TL pulse laser kinda sounds tantilizing for a Falcon....Quick and reassuring way to take out the fast DE zippers. It can even hold a small squad of fragons that can melt away another tank or whatever the falcon didn't kill (a landraider).

Nvs wrote:


They need to errata the DE so Drazhar can stand toe to toe with Karrandras

He cant? What makes Karrandras so good? Does he have an invul save now? Drazhar is an IC munching beast

H.B.M.C. wrote:
I mean, Scatter Laser/Bright Lance.

You fire the Scatter Lasers on all three WW's first. Assume that one from each of them hits (pretty easy with 4 shots at BS4). So now you've got 3 twin-linked Bright Lance shots and you'll probably get 3 hits. Whereas 3 WW's with 2 BL's each... is 4 hits at BS4. Why do you need the "laser lock" ability at all?

Depends how the rule works. If the scatter rule works on the whole unit (not just the vehicle), then you could go 1 scatter, 1 lance, plus 2 double lances. That's 5 lances re-rolling to hit, which is a bit better than 6 lances without re-rolls (plus the scatter laser).

 cincydooley wrote:
I've been trying to plow thu the rumors so I know how to build my two boxes of dire avengers. Anyone have any recommendations on how I should build the exarchs? I'm assuming units of 10 will be solid?

Honestly if you paying all the money for this game pins/magnets are a must.

I'd invest in a pen drill, Citidel makes one and I've used it and I quite like it, but any will do, the drill bits it comes with are good for pins(buy paper clips and cut them into like 2cm pieces, drill into the models are sockest about a cm and into each arm and either put the pins in each arm or in the torso it self. You can also use multiple pins to have fixed arm positions. Magnets require a larger drill bit or the use of a hobby knife(not recommended) and just glue the magnets in to the arm sockets and arms. On smaller bits(like this exarchs weapon options) I prefer pinning but to each thier own. Also remember the Exarch can use a Power Weapon so you can use any type other than the included Power Lance in the kit using extra bits from other kits.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat470006a&prodId=prod1095460


Automatically Appended Next Post:

GTKA666 wrote:
Actually a TL pulse laser kinda sounds tantilizing for a Falcon....Quick and reassuring way to take out the fast DE zippers. It can even hold a small squad of fragons that can melt away another tank or whatever the falcon didn't kill (a landraider).

Finally a reason to appease GW hard on with displaying Falcons with Scatter Lasers XP

Darge wrote:
Laser Lock only works on the Model that fires the Scatter Laser, so every War Walker will have to have one and most other vehicles will just have their shuriken cannon twin linked(fallons can have 4 S6 AP 6, 2 S8 Ap 2 twin link shots, and 3 S6 AP 6 twin link shots though so that's not terrible.)

Yeah my example was factoring that in (each WW w/1 Scatter Laser & 1 Bright Lance). It's not worth it. 3 TL Bright Lance shots aren't as good as 6 non TL BL shots. If it was one Scatter Laser to TL the squadron, then yes obviously that would be better (5 TL-Bright Lances > 6 Bright Lances), but sadly it isn't, and sadly it's a mostly useless rule that doesn't seem to have been completely thought through.

Regarding Illic Nightspear, are his special rules of having all his shots be precision shots and wounding on a 6 count as Instant death rules that he himself has or that his sniper rifle has? He sounds like a neat gunner for a Quad-gun since he also gets the split-fire warlord trait.

I'm also waiting to hear if the Avatar lost his MC status or not, as none of the sources have it as one of his special rules.

I am actually looking forward to all the new rules.

Especially regarding warp spiders and striking scorpions.

I will just have to wait for the actual codex because the devil is in the details.

Laser Lock would be an amazing rule on the Wraithknight if it could actually fire more than 2 weapons (hopefully its an oversight, but I'm not holding my breath). Otherwise you won't get a whole lot of milage out of the rule, you can twin link the Pulse Laser on a Falcon and underslung Cannons on Serpents/Falcons/Vypers but that's about it. Considering everything is BS4 you don't need the twin linking as badly, and you can usually get a Bright Lance for the same price now anyway.

@Oaka. All of Nightspears shots are precision, that isn't attached to his rifle. The wound on 6 causing ID is from the rifle though. If you take him you wouldn't put him on the Quad Gun in any case, he unlocks Pathfinders as troops (upgrade to Rangers) and they also always get Precision shots (regardless of weapon).

Powerguy wrote:
Laser Lock is amazing on Guardians, since you can basically Guide them for free (and since they aren't going to be firing the Catapults often you don't want to bring a psyker to do that for them). It would be an amazing rule on the Wraithknight if it could actually fire more than 2 weapons (hopefully its an oversight, but I'm not holding my breath). Otherwise you won't get a whole lot of milage out of the rule, you can twin link the Pulse Laser on a Falcon and underslung Cannons on Serpents/Falcons/Vypers but that's about it. Considering everything is BS4 you don't need the twin linking as badly, and you can usually get a Bright Lance for the same price now anyway.

Apparently that's not how laser lock works. It's for an individual model, not an entire squad. So if a wraithlord hit with a laser lock weapon it would have twin linked with it's other guns but it wouldn't work for a guardian squad.

Derp, yeah you are correct. My brain clearly isn't working properly (I have the codex lol)

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Darge wrote:
Laser Lock only works on the Model that fires the Scatter Laser, so every War Walker will have to have one and most other vehicles will just have their shuriken cannon twin linked(fallons can have 4 S6 AP 6, 2 S8 Ap 2 twin link shots, and 3 S6 AP 6 twin link shots though so that's not terrible.)

Yeah my example was factoring that in (each WW w/1 Scatter Laser & 1 Bright Lance). It's not worth it. 3 TL Bright Lance shots aren't as good as 6 non TL BL shots. If it was one Scatter Laser to TL the squadron, then yes obviously that would be better (5 TL-Bright Lances > 6 Bright Lances), but sadly it isn't, and sadly it's a mostly useless rule that doesn't seem to have been completely thought through.

That makes sense - I've just read two rumours regarding scatter lasers now, one that they only affect the model they're on, and one that they affects the whole unit. If it's the model only, then you're definitely correct (though we'll have to see if there are any price differences between the two weapons...)

Powerguy wrote:
Derp, yeah you are correct. My brain clearly isn't working properly (I have the codex lol)

No problem, happy to be the one explaining something for once! Wow how'd you get it early?

KaiyaA wrote:

Powerguy wrote:
Derp, yeah you are correct. My brain clearly isn't working properly (I have the codex lol)

No problem, happy to be the one explaining something for once! Wow how'd you get it early?

Some people are just better than us regular peons XP

Though this peon does have one question, well actually two.
1. Are there any force org shenanigans? Other than spirit seer, like autarchs or phoenix lords.
2. Does the phoenix armor come with the phoenix gem built in?

Much appreciated if you can answer powerguy. This has been bugging me for awhile.

Darge wrote:

KaiyaA wrote:

Powerguy wrote:
Derp, yeah you are correct. My brain clearly isn't working properly (I have the codex lol)

No problem, happy to be the one explaining something for once! Wow how'd you get it early?

Some people are just better than us regular peons XP

Though this peon does have one question, well actually two.
1. Are there any force org shenanigans? Other than spirit seer, like autarchs or phoenix lords.
2. Does the phoenix armor come with the phoenix gem built in?

Much appreciated if you can answer powerguy. This has been bugging me for awhile.

1. no
2. no idea never mentioned but i am guessing no....

Are direswords still the same or did they change them?

Roadkill Zombie wrote:
Are direswords still the same or did they change them?

the dire exarch can take a power sword or this sword

asuryans sword: s user ap 2 melee, soulcut:

for each unsaved wound caused by it the model has to pass a ld test or gets removed from play.

Theorius wrote:

Darge wrote:

KaiyaA wrote:

Powerguy wrote:
Derp, yeah you are correct. My brain clearly isn't working properly (I have the codex lol)

No problem, happy to be the one explaining something for once! Wow how'd you get it early?

Some people are just better than us regular peons XP

Though this peon does have one question, well actually two.
1. Are there any force org shenanigans? Other than spirit seer, like autarchs or phoenix lords.
2. Does the phoenix armor come with the phoenix gem built in?

Much appreciated if you can answer powerguy. This has been bugging me for awhile.

1. no
2. no idea never mentioned but i am guessing no....

No force org shenanigans makes me a sad panda :(

And the phoenix thing was just an idea, when I read the descipt for the phoenix gem before we knew what it was it sounded like an ability phoenix lords would have, and when I read that all the poenix lords have phoenix armor the gears were turning. That's too many times to say phoenix in the same post...

Darge wrote:

Theorius wrote:

Darge wrote:

KaiyaA wrote:

Powerguy wrote:
Derp, yeah you are correct. My brain clearly isn't working properly (I have the codex lol)

No problem, happy to be the one explaining something for once! Wow how'd you get it early?

Some people are just better than us regular peons XP

Though this peon does have one question, well actually two.
1. Are there any force org shenanigans? Other than spirit seer, like autarchs or phoenix lords.
2. Does the phoenix armor come with the phoenix gem built in?

Much appreciated if you can answer powerguy. This has been bugging me for awhile.

1. no
2. no idea never mentioned but i am guessing no....

No force org shenanigans makes me a sad panda :(

And the phoenix thing was just an idea, when I read the descipt for the phoenix gem before we knew what it was it sounded like an ability phoenix lords would have, and when I read that all the poenix lords have phoenix armor the gears were turning. That's too many times to say phoenix in the same post...

i dont understand the obsession with force org shenanigans? you want to take 4+ scorpion units or something?

i dont understand the obsession with force org shenanigans? you want to take 4+ scorpion units or something?

More options, is generally a good thing.

 Sasori wrote:

i dont understand the obsession with force org shenanigans? you want to take 4+ scorpion units or something?

More options, is generally a good thing.

i dont see how it makes more options. Its not like sorcpions or howling bashees make good scoring troops.....

and I dare say cant see why you would want more than 1-2 let alone 3...


Is it that people wanted like...ALL aspects to be troops?

Theorius wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

i dont understand the obsession with force org shenanigans? you want to take 4+ scorpion units or something?

More options, is generally a good thing.

i dont see how it makes more options. Its not like sorcpions or howling bashees make good scoring troops.....

and I dare say cant see why you would want more than 1-2 let alone 3...


Is it that people wanted like...ALL aspects to be troops?

Dark Reapers would be nice as troops due to there being such a large amount of viable Heavy Support choices. Also with is Elite Aspects were Troops that would free up more slots for Harlequins and Wraithguard.

Theorius wrote:
i dont understand the obsession with force org shenanigans? you want to take 4+ scorpion units or something?

People sometimes like to theme their army. For example, if they want to run Biel Tan but heavily around Striking Scorpions, they need to use a few squads of Dire Avengers as the core scoring part of the army, which destroys the theme.

I'd personally love to run an entirely winged Tyranid army. Allowing Winged Hive Tyrants to unlock Gargoyles as troops wouldn't be broken at all, and would let me run an army of Flying Tyrants, Shrikes, Gargoyles and Harpies to represent the opening flying attack waves of a Tyranid assault. As it is, I'd have to put in two other non-winged troops units (Termagants, Hormagaunts, Rippers, Genestealers or Warriors) which completely ruins the theme of the army.

Theorius wrote:
i dont see how it makes more options. Its not like sorcpions or howling bashees make good scoring troops.....

Some people want to play their Craftworld the way their Craftworld is meant to be played. Who cares if its effective on the table or not?

Theorius wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

i dont understand the obsession with force org shenanigans? you want to take 4+ scorpion units or something?

More options, is generally a good thing.

i dont see how it makes more options. Its not like sorcpions or howling bashees make good scoring troops.....

and I dare say cant see why you would want more than 1-2 let alone 3...


Is it that people wanted like...ALL aspects to be troops?

Scorpions could make great, enemy back-field objective threatening troops.

Banshees are terrible.

I really liked the idea of Autarchs taking a "path" and unlocking two of that aspect as troops. It's too bad that never came true, as that would have been awesome.

Theorius wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

i dont understand the obsession with force org shenanigans? you want to take 4+ scorpion units or something?

More options, is generally a good thing.

i dont see how it makes more options. Its not like sorcpions or howling bashees make good scoring troops.....

and I dare say cant see why you would want more than 1-2 let alone 3...


Is it that people wanted like...ALL aspects to be troops?

2 words: Necron Flyers

What does this mean? Simply the necrons can have an obscene amount of flyers on the board while everyone else is stuck to the force org. Most people were hoping that by taking an autarch and attaching him to a unit, it would make that unit troop choice and freeing up another potential slot for more weapons.

Essentially having 4 heavies on the table since the autarch made one of the heavies a troop choice and bringing more fire powa to the table.

 Sasori wrote:
I really liked the idea of Autarchs taking a "path" and unlocking two of that aspect as troops. It's too bad that never came true, as that would have been awesome.

That would've been fantastic. Themed Wargear and it changes out that Aspect for troops (and in the case of Avengers, gives them a boost).

Darge wrote:

KaiyaA wrote:

Powerguy wrote:
Derp, yeah you are correct. My brain clearly isn't working properly (I have the codex lol)

No problem, happy to be the one explaining something for once! Wow how'd you get it early?

Some people are just better than us regular peons XP

Though this peon does have one question, well actually two.
1. Are there any force org shenanigans? Other than spirit seer, like autarchs or phoenix lords.
2. Does the phoenix armor come with the phoenix gem built in?

Much appreciated if you can answer powerguy. This has been bugging me for awhile.

\

Spirit Seer moves Wraithblades and Wraithguard to troops, Mastery 2, 2W L9, can only pick from Telepath and the Warlock powers (Battle).
The Autarch is almost exactly the same as before, +1/-1 to reserves, access to most of the standard Aspect weapons and the new unique artifact weapons. No changes to FOC. Probably only going to be using in flyer heavy lists tbh.
Phoenix Lords have the same stat line, have generally been buffed a bit but stayed the same cost (which means that Asurmen/Jain Zar/Karandras/Fuegan are good, Baraharoth is still pretty terrible). They don't do anything for the Aspects.
In short, no new FOC changes, its just Wraithguard/Blades that can change, the same as the old codex.

Phoenix Gem is a unique artifact that HQ choices can take, it has nothing to do with Phoenix Lords. Its nowhere near as good as the initial details showed, its a S4 AP5 Large Blast not an AP3 Large Blast so your chances of causing a wound and standing back up aren't that great. The only artifact that stands out is the one Farseers can take which can reduce Warp Charge 2 powers to Warp Charge 1 in exchange for turning off their Rune Armour (which is important since quite a few of the Runes of Fate powers are 2 charge, including Fortune). The rest I really don't see much use for, the Falcon Wing (massive run) one isn't that helpful for a single non scoring model and the rest are weapons of varying effectiveness.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
I really liked the idea of Autarchs taking a "path" and unlocking two of that aspect as troops. It's too bad that never came true, as that would have been awesome.

That would've been fantastic. Themed Wargear and it changes out that Aspect for troops (and in the case of Avengers, gives them a boost).

Never know. They might be saving this for a Biel Tan supplement.

The idea of an $80 book just to shift a few FOC slots around disgusts me.

Just noticed in the iPad sample, the names of the units are all over the place. For instance;

1. Vypers are called "Vyper Jetbikes"
2. Two Warlocks with "Saim Hann Farseer" listed
3. Warlock with "Ulthwe Farseer" listed
4. Biel Tann Jetbikes with "Wind Rider Guardian" - as far as I knew, only Saim Hann had Wind Riders

Very odd indeed... another rush job? Looks like they've just cut/pasted from the original entries back in the mid 90s with regards to the Vyper (when it had the label of Jetbike).

I'm not surprised that the Ipad entries are messed up. They probably don't get the same level of detailed proof reading that the codex get. And we all know how great the proof reading is there.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The idea of an $80 book just to shift a few FOC slots around disgusts me.

but in itself it is worth the cost, that is depending upon what is moved where. Like if wraith guard are troops, lords are elite, and knights are heavy. That is a disgustingly powerful list that would only require a few AA units and BAM, got yourself a competitive army.

Theorius wrote:

Roadkill Zombie wrote:
Are direswords still the same or did they change them?

the dire exarch can take a power sword or this sword

asuryans sword: s user ap 2 melee, soulcut:

for each unsaved wound caused by it the model has to pass a ld test or gets removed from play.

So that exarch or phoenix lord, coupled with the spell that lowers leadership by 3 will make that sword quite deadly in challenges. Very nice.

Theorius wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

i dont understand the obsession with force org shenanigans? you want to take 4+ scorpion units or something?

More options, is generally a good thing.

i dont see how it makes more options. Its not like sorcpions or howling bashees make good scoring troops.....

and I dare say cant see why you would want more than 1-2 let alone 3...


Is it that people wanted like...ALL aspects to be troops?

Well from a Fluff perspective it makes sense. When a Phoenix Lord takes the field even the rarest of aspects are common sight in their presence, Look at Bahharoth's Apoc formation, that's just loaded with fluff. Now I know fluff =/= rules, so I'm not mad or anything but it would also be an easy way to justify the high cost of phoenix lords in small-mid size games(750-1500) if you could get their aspects as troops, for Example:

995
HQ
195 Bahharoth

Troops
200ish Swooping Hawks x10 With Exarch, Sun Rifle, Hit and Run, Sniper Vision
200ish Swooping Hawks x10 With Exarch, Hawk's Talon, Hit and Run, Sniper Vision

Fast Attack
110 Vyper Squadron x2, Star Cannon x2
Heavy Support
145 Falcon, Scatter Laser, Holo Field
145 Falcon, Scatter Laser, Holo Field

A small list like this covers all bases, is is perfectly viable in casual games, it's fluffy, It's basis is on Swooping Hawks and that's 100% obvious when you first see it on the table and you forgo having to take troops you don't want. Sure i could drop the Vypers, move the Hawks back to FA and add something like windrider jetbikes in as troops, but in order for it to be viable I'd have to considerably cut down on Hawks to get enough bikes to be able to get objectives, and the entire feel of the army changes.

Now I know the this isn't the way it is and I accept that, but there are other reasons to want aspects as troops instead of just having lost of scorpions or whatever in bigger games.

Any confirmation on Warlocks joining Wraith units?

 Morachi wrote:
Just noticed in the iPad sample, the names of the units are all over the place. For instance;

1. Vypers are called "Vyper Jetbikes"
2. Two Warlocks with "Saim Hann Farseer" listed
3. Warlock with "Ulthwe Farseer" listed
4. Biel Tann Jetbikes with "Wind Rider Guardian" - as far as I knew, only Saim Hann had Wind Riders

Very odd indeed... another rush job? Looks like they've just cut/pasted from the original entries back in the mid 90s with regards to the Vyper (when it had the label of Jetbike).

The last is not technically an error. Saim Hann has Wild Rider clans. But every Craftworld has Wind Riders. In the old days of Epic, a Wind Rider Host was a formation of jetbikes and Vypers, and it still is in Apocalypse.

Puscifer wrote:
Any confirmation on Warlocks joining Wraith units?

They can not. They can only join Guardians, Storm Guardians, Jetbikes and Support Batteries.

Roadkill Zombie wrote:

Theorius wrote:

Roadkill Zombie wrote:
Are direswords still the same or did they change them?

the dire exarch can take a power sword or this sword

asuryans sword: s user ap 2 melee, soulcut:

for each unsaved wound caused by it the model has to pass a ld test or gets removed from play.

So that exarch or phoenix lord, coupled with the spell that lowers leadership by 3 will make that sword quite deadly in challenges. Very nice.

as will the psyker plane that makes them reroll leadership tests!!!!!

 Oaka wrote:
Regarding Illic Nightspear, are his special rules of having all his shots be precision shots and wounding on a 6 count as Instant death rules that he himself has or that his sniper rifle has? He sounds like a neat gunner for a Quad-gun since he also gets the split-fire warlord trait.

I'm also waiting to hear if the Avatar lost his MC status or not, as none of the sources have it as one of his special rules.

Correct on Ilic (except snap shots are not precision), also his AP is low enough to negate TDA saves. The precision shots comes from him, the wounding mechanic comes from his rifle.

The Avatar is still monstrously powerful.

As a side note: I've seen some people here and other places lamenting the fact that Banshees have no grenades. Rest assured, if Banshees assault something, that unit will be swinging at Initiative 1 almost every time. So at least that evens things out a bit.

 Morachi wrote:
1. Vypers are called "Vyper Jetbikes"

That's cause Vypers are jetbikes? They've been called that for years, even before they had a 40k scale mini.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The idea of an $80 book just to shift a few FOC slots around disgusts me.

I was going to correct you and say it's $50, but then I noticed the flag. I'm so sorry.

Even $50 is hard to justify.

 Absolutionis wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The idea of an $80 book just to shift a few FOC slots around disgusts me.

I was going to correct you and say it's $50, but then I noticed the flag. I'm so sorry.

Even $50 is hard to justify.

youll get other rules...and lots of fluff.....ever buy a novel for 50bucks.....ME EITHER!!!

Anyone able to post the specific costs of Wraithlord equipment? Bright lances, Wraithsword/Ghostglaive stuff?

At 120 points base, if the weapons are consistently priced, this means I can get a Lord with 2 Bright lances and a wraithsword for ~135 points. Can anyone confirm this?

Also, any rules about vibrocannons, and if a unit of 3 hits at str 9 would be great

Is it confirmed that we can get two of the same weapon on the 'lords without them getting the twin-link treatment?

 Absolutionis wrote:
Even $50 is hard to justify.

For $40 I can get most of the 40K RPG books from FFG. They have more pages, better production values and certainly have fewer mistakes (not mistake free though - not even my own stuff is mistake free). I buy one of those and I feel I get a product that's worth having. Why am I paying double that for an army list written by people who's job it is to sell the new shiny before they make a balanced ruleset?

Belly wrote:
Anyone able to post the specific costs of Wraithlord equipment? Bright lances, Wraithsword/Ghostglaive stuff?

At 120 points base, if the weapons are consistently priced, this means I can get a Lord with 2 Bright lances and a wraithsword for ~135 points. Can anyone confirm this?

Also, any rules about vibrocannons, and if a unit of 3 hits at str 9 would be great

The leaker never released individual weapon costs.

(infrasoud is vibro german translation)

infrasound cannon : 48" s 7 ap 4 heavy 1 infrasound, pinning

infrasound: if a unit has been a target of one or more infrasound weapons. each following infrasound weapon increases its strength by 1 and as by -1 (so second hit s 8 ap 3 etc.)



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Enigma wrote:
Is it confirmed that we can get two of the same weapon on the 'lords without them getting the twin-link treatment?

not confirmed or denied

Yeah...I've read all that. I was hoping someone might be able to bring some new information to the table.

I did read one source that mentioned the TL status of lord weapons was gone. Just after some confirmation.

Belly wrote:
Yeah...I've read all that. I was hoping someone might be able to bring some new information to the table.

I did read one source that mentioned the TL status of lord weapons was gone. Just after some confirmation.

such minute details I am sure we will clarify when we all get a codex.

Really? Ya think?

You're ever so insightful.

Belly wrote:
Really? Ya think?

You're ever so insightful.

I know! its my best and worst trait!!!

Theorius wrote:

Belly wrote:
Really? Ya think?

You're ever so insightful.

I know! its my best and worst trait!!!

you really need a hobby if that is the case.....>.>....<.<.....

Belly wrote:
Anyone able to post the specific costs of Wraithlord equipment? Bright lances, Wraithsword/Ghostglaive stuff?

At 120 points base, if the weapons are consistently priced, this means I can get a Lord with 2 Bright lances and a wraithsword for ~135 points. Can anyone confirm this?

Also, any rules about vibrocannons, and if a unit of 3 hits at str 9 would be great

May take any 2, choosing same one twice does not twin link
Shuricannon 15
Scatter Laser 20
Starcannon 20
Brightlance 20
Eml 30

Ghostglaive 5

So you could take a ghost glaive a scatter laser and a bright lance on a wraithlord for 165

Flamers are still a free swap from the shurcats

sucks the BL went down to 36" though....I had good things planned for that thing, but now...not so much...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Morachi wrote:
1. Vypers are called "Vyper Jetbikes"

That's cause Vypers are jetbikes? They've been called that for years, even before they had a 40k scale mini.

My point was more aimed at the fact they do not have the "Jetbike" rule for maneuvering, and last release (or the one before) there was a noted trend they dropped "Jetbike" from the name as to observe this. I'm well aware they were called Vyper Jetbikes back in the day (must dig up my old "Space Marine" box set somewhere).

GTKA666 wrote:
sucks the BL went down to 36" though....I had good things planned for that thing, but now...not so much...

Erm, it was already 36" in the old/current codex. Plus, if you're more than 36" away, you're doing it wrong. We're an up-close and shooty army.

Thanks to the person that posted weapon values.

Belly wrote:

GTKA666 wrote:
sucks the BL went down to 36" though....I had good things planned for that thing, but now...not so much...

Erm, it was already 36" in the old/current codex. Plus, if you're more than 36" away, you're doing it wrong. We're an up-close and shooty army.

Thanks to the person that posted weapon values.

 Morachi wrote:
I'm well aware they were called Vyper Jetbikes back in the day (must dig up my old "Space Marine" box set somewhere).

It's not just 'back in the day'. They've always been called Vyper Jetbikes. They're listed as such on the GW website.

Belly wrote:

The leaker never released individual weapon costs.

We've got a lot of them now, including the wraithlord. I hope I'm allowed to link to pastebin here...
http://pastebin.com/bgh8Mrs3
if not, /tg/ on 4chan should have an Eldar thread up with links to the relevant info. A small number of photos are around too which confirm that Raziel's leaks were 100% accurate.

Oh, and I should add that the costs (for wraith units, guardians, avengers, war walkers, vypers, maybe some other stuff too) are at the bottom. The document is... messy.

Hmm, so EJBs are only T3. Still a very nice troop unit tho. Too bad the models suck :(

Nah, jetbikes are T4 on the Profiles page. Don't all bikes give T+1 in 6th edition rules or something?

stuffah wrote:
Nah, jetbikes are T4 on the Profiles page. Don't all bikes give T+1 in 6th edition rules or something?

Ok, guess the compilation of leaks was wrong on 4chan then, Makes them even better, they are quite amazing and the Jetlock is cheaper then it were in the last codex even without any abilities. SO you basically get the Psyker lvl 1 for free this edition
Time to convert som more EJBs...

So any new word on the Iyanden book? Didn't see anything in the 4chan post. The fact that Yriel hasn't been mentioned does leave some curiosity in me that there may be some legitimate 40k rules in that book.

This book looks like it will be really solid, I am pretty mad at Phil Kelly considering how much better of a job he could have done on the CSM book. That'll especially be the case if it turns out Eldar get an extra book with flavor rules for a specific Craftworld while Legions got thrown to the curb.

 morgendonner wrote:
So any new word on the Iyanden book? Didn't see anything in the 4chan post. The fact that Yriel hasn't been mentioned does leave some curiosity in me that there may be some legitimate 40k rules in that book.

This book looks like it will be really solid, I am pretty mad at Phil Kelly considering how much better of a job he could have done on the CSM book. That'll especially be the case if it turns out Eldar get an extra book with flavor rules for a specific Craftworld while Legions got thrown to the curb.

Yriel is in the main codex. He has gained a wound.

He also gained a crappy rule which makes him reroll saves of 6 and his spear is AP3 now. Total waste.

That's weird...

I've seen two conflicting rumours on Reapers.

One saying that each Reaper can get Starstrike Missiles and the other saying only the Exarch can.

I hope it's the former.

Oryza Sativa wrote:

As a side note: I've seen some people here and other places lamenting the fact that Banshees have no grenades. Rest assured, if Banshees assault something, that unit will be swinging at Initiative 1 almost every time. So at least that evens things out a bit.

They're still worse than before. In 4th/5th edition they would hit at I10, which is technically better than assault grenades as there's a chance of wiping out the enemy unit before they strike back. Now they're hitting at I1 at the same time as most opponents, which for a T3 unit isn't exactly great...

I'm still hoping they have some kind of assault grenades rule hidden somewhere we haven't noticed yet, or they're going to be trash.

Edit: "Acrobatics from banshees grants +3" if the unit consists entirely of banshees"
Not sure if this will be on normal movement, running or charging. But it's still not looking great for Banshees.

Oryza Sativa wrote:


The Avatar is still monstrously powerful.

Why? It went up by 40pts for I10 and Fleet, but dropped the invuln to 5++ which effectively cancels out the extra wound. The Wailing Doom is also effectively twin-linked due to BS10, but with that range how often did anyone really fire it in a game anyway?

The Exarch powers might be useful if they don't cost any extra, but I'm not sure it has the survivability it needs.

Those rules on Yriel make me sad.

Puscifer wrote:
Those rules on Yriel make me sad.

Perhaps. But I am lovin' Asurmen.

Why oh why is there no new model

Anyone know anything about the storm guardian upgrade cost? Ie the cost to get flamers, fusion guns and meltas into the squad?

Puscifer wrote:
That's weird...

I've seen two conflicting rumours on Reapers.

One saying that each Reaper can get Starstrike Missiles and the other saying only the Exarch can.

I hope it's the former.

I think it's so that you can pay 8 points per model for Startstrike missiles.

Asurmen is a beast, I can agree there.

I was hoping to go all Iyanden with Yriel, but I may not now.

Wasn't Asurmen and more importantly Asuryan from Iyanden?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gar'Ang wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
That's weird...

I've seen two conflicting rumours on Reapers.

One saying that each Reaper can get Starstrike Missiles and the other saying only the Exarch can.

I hope it's the former.

I think it's so that you can pay 8 points per model for Startstrike missiles.

YES!!!

Yriel is about the same points as before but his former rules where better. He ignored all saves and he was taking a wound on the end of the game. Now he is useless against termies or any other character with a +2 save and you might be constantly rerolling all those sixes :/. Waste of a totally good character.

Are Guardian Jetbikes troops? With the rending shuriken weapons and a shrouding Warlock they'd be great as the scoring units role. Jetbikes + vehicles/monstrous creatures + few transports with Wraithguard/Dragons.

Yes they are and at 17 points a piece they are gonna cause all kind of problems.. If only we had some new models.

I'm wondering if Warlocks will be useable by allies or are they only available if the primary detachment is eldar. I really want to bring a full 10 man jetbike squad with a warlock with shrouding. 250pts for 10 with 3x cannons and warlock. So much cheaper then before. Too bad the unit is LD 8.

 Capamaru wrote:
Yes they are and at 17 points a piece they are gonna cause all kind of problems.. If only we had some new models.

At 17 points and now BS4 and rending weapons they're easily better than Marines considering their mobility. Playing Eldar properly will get expensive now considering you'll want two dozen of those guys and have to convert them from Dark Eldar bikes.

Im not getting the excitement about warlocks with gjb squads. Warlocks now have to pass psychic tests at ld 8. Unless they have a way to help them do that, all they're going to do is fail each turn until they perils. Im very disappointed as I really wanted to use warlocks more this edition.

 Therion wrote:
At 17 points and now BS4 and rending weapons they're easily better than Marines considering their mobility. Playing Eldar properly will get expensive now considering you'll want two dozen of those guys and have to convert them from Dark Eldar bikes.

Yeah I thought that, they were good before and now they've got buffed BS, pseudorending AND a substantial price drop. What the hell. Personally I'm ok with just switching the heads (and maybe torsos) from Guardians, they look good enough to me like that. Also Reavers are £24 for 3 and EJBs are £20 for 3, not a lot I know but it adds up.

On a side note, has anyone heard anything more about this supposed 'Laser Lock' rule on the Scatter Laser? I really want to know if its as good as I've heard!

Im not getting the excitement about warlocks with gjb squads.

A 17 point model with BS4, T4, 4+ armour save, jetbike movement, a 2 shot twin linked 'rending' weapon, and access to a cheap shuriken cannon which is a 'sort of' assault cannon now? What's not to get excited about? Warlocks or not that's one of the best scoring units in the game.

Personally I'm ok with just switching the heads (and maybe torsos) from Guardians

For a gaming army there's no point converting much else than the heads. Especially if a tiny bit spiky bikes fit your theme. My Eldar craftworld were always painted with black, purple and white and an overall dark theme anyway so it wouldn't matter one bit.

It would be so hilarious if the Jetbikes end up becoming all the rage so GW will sell every Eldar player 30 of them. We'll get five or six years out of them untill a new Eldar codex nerfs them to hell and makes us buy something else.

 Therion wrote:

Im not getting the excitement about warlocks with gjb squads.

A 17 point model with BS4, T4, 4+ armour save, jetbike movement, a 2 shot twin linked 'rending' weapon, and access to a cheap shuriken cannon which is a 'sort of' assault cannon now? What's not to get excited about? Warlocks or not that's one of the best scoring units in the game.

Personally I'm ok with just switching the heads (and maybe torsos) from Guardians

For a gaming army there's no point converting much else than the heads. Especially if a tiny bit spiky bikes fit your theme. My Eldar craftworld were always painted with black, purple and white and an overall dark theme anyway so it wouldn't matter one bit.

Just to make them better, they're actually 3+ saves.

Just to make them better, they're actually 3+ saves.

Now that makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. That's a legit crazy good unit for 17 points. I'll go out on a limb and call them the best scoring unit in the game right away. If you compare them to say 15 point Tactical Marines, that 2 points seems to buy an awful lot.

So what do we have here that seems to be good? Jetbikes and Wraithguard of all types and weapon loadouts. Wave Serpents seem sturdy especially if shrouded somehow, so that transport is definately usable now. Fire Dragons are still Fire Dragons. So take a Wraithseer that makes the Wraithguard troops, two units of Wraithguard with the AP2 flamers, four units of Jetbikes, 3 units of Dragons as elites, and five Wave Serpents to ship them around. Add Warlocks to every squad and hopefully give them some gear that makes them protected vs Perils. That type of core loadout seems to have answers for everything since it's fast, sturdy (3+ saves for everyone), consists only of points efficient units, and brings a ton of meltaguns, ap2 flamers and rending shuricats. Now the army just needs something to deal with flyers, so maybe an Aegis Defence Line crowded with Dark Reapers (more 3+ saves).

Yeah Jetbikes are looking insane value points wise. The only downside for me is it can be tricky to fit them all on a busy battlefield compared to normal units, especially against an assault based army.

Also I assume Wraithsight has gone if we can't add Warlocks to Wraithguard squads any more?

 shamikebab wrote:
Yeah Jetbikes are looking insane value points wise. The only downside for me is it can be tricky to fit them all on a busy battlefield compared to normal units, especially against an assault based army.

Also I assume Wraithsight has gone if we can't add Warlocks to Wraithguard squads any more?

I read that it's gone, but I also read somewhere you can still attach those Wraithseers into Wraith units.

 ColdSadHungry wrote:
Im not getting the excitement about warlocks with gjb squads. Warlocks now have to pass psychic tests at ld 8. Unless they have a way to help them do that, all they're going to do is fail each turn until they perils. Im very disappointed as I really wanted to use warlocks more this edition.

Ahh, internet hyperbole how I loath thee....with ld 8 they will fail 27.8% of the time. Thats hardly each turn...That said, EJBs are mean as feth even without an attatched warlock

 Therion wrote:

 shamikebab wrote:
Yeah Jetbikes are looking insane value points wise. The only downside for me is it can be tricky to fit them all on a busy battlefield compared to normal units, especially against an assault based army.

Also I assume Wraithsight has gone if we can't add Warlocks to Wraithguard squads any more?

I read that it's gone, but I also read somewhere you can still attach those Wraithseers into Wraith units.

The spirit seer is a cross between a farseer and a warlock being ML 2 yet it acts like a warlock in terms of picking discipline, but can also roll for telepathy.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Morachi wrote:
I'm well aware they were called Vyper Jetbikes back in the day (must dig up my old "Space Marine" box set somewhere).

It's not just 'back in the day'. They've always been called Vyper Jetbikes. They're listed as such on the GW website.

I'm looking at my 4th Ed, 3rd Ed, 3rd Ed CWE, Eye of Terror Codex - each deliberately make no mention of "Jetbike", only "Vyper" and "Vyper Squadron". The only previous mention of it in 40k was during 2nd Edition and that was before the model came out. I believe the website has also been revised. So perhaps "always" isn't the best word when over half the publications mentioning them prove otherwise. Just sayin'.

As mentioned before, this was probably to delineate them so the Jetbike rule (movement in the Assault phase) wasn't mistakenly applied.

1. Can a Spirit Seer take those Relics (all of them?)?

2. If you take the "Mantle of the Laughing god", you lose your Indep. Char. status. Do you remain a Character (importent for challenges...)?

3. Weaponplatform/Spec.Weapon price for Guardians?

4.Does the Spirit Seer get a pistol? Is his "Weapon" twohanded?

greetings Badger

 xttz wrote:

Oryza Sativa wrote:


The Avatar is still monstrously powerful.

Why? It went up by 40pts for I10 and Fleet, but dropped the invuln to 5++ which effectively cancels out the extra wound. The Wailing Doom is also effectively twin-linked due to BS10, but with that range how often did anyone really fire it in a game anyway?

The Exarch powers might be useful if they don't cost any extra, but I'm not sure it has the survivability it needs.

If I read everything correctly, you can upgrade the Avatar to get an extra shot, and he now has fleet and can run-shoot, so The Wailing Doom could easily become an often-used ranged weapon. Someone had mentioned a few pages back that the Avatar would actually perform better than a squad of Fire Dragons in a Falcon under this role. I am just concerned if it lost MC status, because you really need that in order to take advantage of his AP1 against vehicles in assault (Edit: If The Wailing Doom counts as having the melta rule in assault, that would do just fine by itself, but using a S10 Smash Attack with an AP1 melta weapon could be pretty over-the-top). As for survivability, if you're also taking a lot of Wraith units it should be difficult to prioritize, and there is also the possibility that the psykers can cast powers out of their own unit to buff the Avatar. You can also purchase the 4++ exarch power.

I was already running a three Talos Dark Eldar list with an allied Avatar, so I'm pretty stoked about throwing in a Wraithknight and having an improved Avatar for some monster-goodness.

There is no way that the Avatar is no longer a MC, if he lost that then he could be joined by IC and the like. I don't think GW would want that happening.

Dual shuricats on DA exarchs going to twin-linked makes me sad, I've got two of those modeled. Time to start checking eBay for some different ones. Also kinda peeved about the same change on Warp Spider exarchs seeing as how that's the only available model option.

Wait, so the autarch path thing granting aspects of that path is not true anymore? What the crap? That was one of the most solid rumors and had me planning a list. Kinda hard to have multiple spider squads and aircraft. So much for a new army until they come up with the rules for that craft world that allows aspects as troops if they ever get to it.

I hope next edition goes back to a percentage system, force org slots suck.

 MandalorynOranj wrote:
Dual shuricats on DA exarchs going to twin-linked makes me sad, I've got two of those modeled. Time to start checking eBay for some different ones. Also kinda peeved about the same change on Warp Spider exarchs seeing as how that's the only available model option.

But can't the Warp Spider get the Hail of Fire exarch power? So that way he can still shoot twice!

 Oaka wrote:

 xttz wrote:

Oryza Sativa wrote:


The Avatar is still monstrously powerful.

Why? It went up by 40pts for I10 and Fleet, but dropped the invuln to 5++ which effectively cancels out the extra wound. The Wailing Doom is also effectively twin-linked due to BS10, but with that range how often did anyone really fire it in a game anyway?

The Exarch powers might be useful if they don't cost any extra, but I'm not sure it has the survivability it needs.

If I read everything correctly, you can upgrade the Avatar to get an extra shot, and he now has fleet and can run-shoot, so The Wailing Doom could easily become an often-used ranged weapon. Someone had mentioned a few pages back that the Avatar would actually perform better than a squad of Fire Dragons in a Falcon under this role. I am just concerned if it lost MC status, because you really need that in order to take advantage of his AP1 against vehicles in assault (Edit: If The Wailing Doom counts as having the melta rule in assault, that would do just fine by itself, but using a S10 Smash Attack with an AP1 melta weapon could be pretty over-the-top). As for survivability, if you're also taking a lot of Wraith units it should be difficult to prioritize, and there is also the possibility that the psykers can cast powers out of their own unit to buff the Avatar.

MC is now a unit type rather than a special rule, which will be why it's been missed off the leaks we've seen so far (many of the HQ units of the post earlier in this thread didn't show unit types). I have no doubt it'll be an MC.

So for 50pts over the 4th edition price, you get a twin-linked Assault 2 meltagun plus Fleet and I10. However with the invuln change it's no better off with the extra wound. For example, 10 krak missile or lascannon hits would average:

On a 4 wound, 4++ Avatar = 4.1 wounds
On a 5 wound, 5++ Avatar = 5.5 wounds

So it's still dead in the same amount of firepower.

As for psychic powers - we can no longer rely on cheap and easy Fortune as now you will need to roll for it. Plus it's apparently a warp charge 2 power, and less effective with 5++ than 4++.

I really want to like the new Avatar, but it looks like the only way to use it effectively is the Tyranid approach of spamming T6+ units and hope something gets through.

 xttz wrote:

 Oaka wrote:

 xttz wrote:

Oryza Sativa wrote:


The Avatar is still monstrously powerful.

Why? It went up by 40pts for I10 and Fleet, but dropped the invuln to 5++ which effectively cancels out the extra wound. The Wailing Doom is also effectively twin-linked due to BS10, but with that range how often did anyone really fire it in a game anyway?

The Exarch powers might be useful if they don't cost any extra, but I'm not sure it has the survivability it needs.

If I read everything correctly, you can upgrade the Avatar to get an extra shot, and he now has fleet and can run-shoot, so The Wailing Doom could easily become an often-used ranged weapon. Someone had mentioned a few pages back that the Avatar would actually perform better than a squad of Fire Dragons in a Falcon under this role. I am just concerned if it lost MC status, because you really need that in order to take advantage of his AP1 against vehicles in assault (Edit: If The Wailing Doom counts as having the melta rule in assault, that would do just fine by itself, but using a S10 Smash Attack with an AP1 melta weapon could be pretty over-the-top). As for survivability, if you're also taking a lot of Wraith units it should be difficult to prioritize, and there is also the possibility that the psykers can cast powers out of their own unit to buff the Avatar.

MC is now a unit type rather than a special rule, which will be why it's been missed off the leaks we've seen so far (many of the HQ units of the post earlier in this thread didn't show unit types). I have no doubt it'll be an MC.

So for 50pts over the 4th edition price, you get a twin-linked Assault 2 meltagun plus Fleet and I10. However with the invuln change it's no better off with the extra wound. For example, 10 krak missile or lascannon hits would average:

On a 4 wound, 4++ Avatar = 4.1 wounds
On a 5 wound, 5++ Avatar = 5.5 wounds

So it's still dead in the same amount of firepower.

As for psychic powers - we can no longer rely on cheap and easy Fortune as now you will need to roll for it. Plus it's apparently a warp charge 2 power, and less effective with 5++ than 4++.

I really want to like the new Avatar, but it looks like the only way to use it effectively is the Tyranid approach of spamming T6+ units and hope something gets through.

I'll probably be taking him in a 2000 point game so at that point I'll have 2 or more farseers to fortune him. Also when calculating his survivability you didn't take into account that he's faster now due to fleet. Obviously you can't put that into an equation but it does mean him being out in the open less.

The extra wound also helps against anything that doesn't ignore his armour save of course, such as poisoned weapons. And getting a 4+ cover save usually isn't impossible, especially with all the Imperial Ruins most tables have.

 shamikebab wrote:
Also I assume Wraithsight has gone if we can't add Warlocks to Wraithguard squads any more?

The WD batrep has a Warlock attached to a Wraithguard unit..

 xttz wrote:
MC is now a unit type rather than a special rule, which will be why it's been missed off the leaks we've seen so far (many of the HQ units of the post earlier in this thread didn't show unit types). I have no doubt it'll be an MC.

If the reference sheet I've seen is legit (and it seems to be), I can confirm that the Avatar is still a MC.

I think that's a spiritseer actually.

IIRC warlocks can only join guardian squads -- shooty ones, cc ones, jetbike ones and artillery batteries.

 Farseer_Kaiser wrote:

 shamikebab wrote:
Also I assume Wraithsight has gone if we can't add Warlocks to Wraithguard squads any more?

The WD batrep has a Warlock attached to a Wraithguard unit..

Some people seem to be saying that was a mistake! I'd be surprised if Warlocks can't be attached to them though.

I'm just amazed that GW once again creates a crazy good unit (jetbikes) yet completely misses the boat on releasing a model.. The list continues! Drop pods, thunderwolf cav, tervigons, doom, wave serpents back in the day.

It's.. like no one there realizes how good certain units will be or popular they will become. That's not horribly surprising tho.

 Kirasu wrote:
I'm just amazed that GW once again creates a crazy good unit (jetbikes) yet completely misses the boat on releasing a model.. The list continues! Drop pods, thunderwolf cav, tervigons, doom, wave serpents back in the day.

It's.. like no one there realizes how good certain units will be or popular they will become. That's not horribly surprising tho.

Idk, that might be their plan. What Eldar models need updates the most now? Jetbikes and Warpspiders. Which two units got much better? .... Yeah.

I'm wondering if they want to make sure they get rid of their stock of old models before releasing the new ones.

 Red Viper wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
I'm just amazed that GW once again creates a crazy good unit (jetbikes) yet completely misses the boat on releasing a model.. The list continues! Drop pods, thunderwolf cav, tervigons, doom, wave serpents back in the day.

It's.. like no one there realizes how good certain units will be or popular they will become. That's not horribly surprising tho.

Idk, that might be their plan. What Eldar models need updates the most now? Jetbikes and Warpspiders. Which two units got much better? .... Yeah.

I'm wondering if they want to make sure they get rid of their stock of old models before releasing the new ones.

That's the problem tho, I won't be buying the awful old models (I already have 30 spiders tho).. I'll either get DE and convert or find someone else to make the models.

 Kirasu wrote:
I'm just amazed that GW once again creates a crazy good unit (jetbikes) yet completely misses the boat on releasing a model.. The list continues! Drop pods, thunderwolf cav, tervigons, doom, wave serpents back in the day.

It's.. like no one there realizes how good certain units will be or popular they will become. That's not horribly surprising tho.

They still might

IIRC, the reason GW do all the new units first is so that they don't have to put up with things like the 4 million different model companies that started making thunderwolves when GW didn't immediately release one with the SW codex release.

I still reckon theres a second wave at some point.

Edit:And ninja'd

Darge wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
I've been trying to plow thu the rumors so I know how to build my two boxes of dire avengers. Anyone have any recommendations on how I should build the exarchs? I'm assuming units of 10 will be solid?

Honestly if you paying all the money for this game pins/magnets are a must.

I'd invest in a pen drill, Citidel makes one and I've used it and I quite like it, but any will do, the drill bits it comes with are good for pins(buy paper clips and cut them into like 2cm pieces, drill into the models are sockest about a cm and into each arm and either put the pins in each arm or in the torso it self. You can also use multiple pins to have fixed arm positions. Magnets require a larger drill bit or the use of a hobby knife(not recommended) and just glue the magnets in to the arm sockets and arms. On smaller bits(like this exarchs weapon options) I prefer pinning but to each thier own. Also remember the Exarch can use a Power Weapon so you can use any type other than the included Power Lance in the kit using extra bits from other kits.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat470006a&prodId=prod1095460

I like where your head is, and with stuff like Tau or Marine turrets, I do this. But I don't magnetize weapon arms. For me, it's more hassle than it's worth and, quite frankly, I'd rather just buy the extra model.

Which is going to make it really interesting when Kingdom Death: Monster comes out. I may be reevaluating this stance then.

Thanks for the other advice. I think I'll probably go PW/Shield. Cheers!

PredaKhaine wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
I'm just amazed that GW once again creates a crazy good unit (jetbikes) yet completely misses the boat on releasing a model.. The list continues! Drop pods, thunderwolf cav, tervigons, doom, wave serpents back in the day.

It's.. like no one there realizes how good certain units will be or popular they will become. That's not horribly surprising tho.

They still might

IIRC, the reason GW do all the new units first is so that they don't have to put up with things like the 4 million different model companies that started making thunderwolves when GW didn't immediately release one with the SW codex release.

I still reckon theres a second wave at some point.

Edit:And ninja'd

I have a hard time justifying waiting years for a second wave. Unfortunately I enjoy playing so I rather play now, not whenever they get around to releasing jetbikes they've had for 7 years. It's just irritating.

But no one has got any confirmation on the possibility of having Autarchs unlock a few squads of aspect warriors as troops? That and letting banshees assault out of a Wave Serpent were all I wanted =(

 Kirasu wrote:

PredaKhaine wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
I'm just amazed that GW once again creates a crazy good unit (jetbikes) yet completely misses the boat on releasing a model.. The list continues! Drop pods, thunderwolf cav, tervigons, doom, wave serpents back in the day.

It's.. like no one there realizes how good certain units will be or popular they will become. That's not horribly surprising tho.

They still might

IIRC, the reason GW do all the new units first is so that they don't have to put up with things like the 4 million different model companies that started making thunderwolves when GW didn't immediately release one with the SW codex release.

I still reckon theres a second wave at some point.

Edit:And ninja'd

I have a hard time justifying waiting years for a second wave. Unfortunately I enjoy playing so I rather play now, not whenever they get around to releasing jetbikes they've had for 7 years. It's just irritating.

I heard a rumour that we're going to be waiting a month, but its not a 'good' source.
I'm going to wait a month and then see if its true.

Edit:

 Kirasu wrote:
I'm just amazed that GW once again creates a crazy good unit (jetbikes) yet completely misses the boat on releasing a model.. The list continues! Drop pods, thunderwolf cav, tervigons, doom, wave serpents back in the day.

Ahh... no. Not even close.

Drop Pods? Never had a model.
Thunderwolves? Never had a model.
Tervigons? Nope. Never had a model.
Wave Serpents? Did not have a model for a long time.

Jetbikes? They have a model. The same one for 15 years yes, and we'd like it to be replaced, but this is not at all a similar situation.

I thought the current ones were from 1994?

Coyote81 wrote:
I'm wondering if Warlocks will be useable by allies or are they only available if the primary detachment is eldar. I really want to bring a full 10 man jetbike squad with a warlock with shrouding. 250pts for 10 with 3x cannons and warlock. So much cheaper then before. Too bad the unit is LD 8.

The Seer Council is 1 per primary attachment and it seems to be the only way to buy warlocks. Honestly I don't think they need a warlock anymore. Since Runes of warding are also gone I bet Illic or the Spiritseer becomes the allied HQ of choice due to what they unlock.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
I'm just amazed that GW once again creates a crazy good unit (jetbikes) yet completely misses the boat on releasing a model.. The list continues! Drop pods, thunderwolf cav, tervigons, doom, wave serpents back in the day.

Ahh... no. Not even close.

Drop Pods? Never had a model.
Thunderwolves? Never had a model.
Tervigons? Nope. Never had a model.
Wave Serpents? Did not have a model for a long time.

Jetbikes? They have a model. The same one for 15 years yes, and we'd like it to be replaced, but this is not at all a similar situation.

As far as I'm concerned they do NOT have a model for jetbikes. Technically they do, but realistically there is no way I'm buying a 1994 sculpt (especially after I sold all the ones I had). I realize that is different, it's just not a realistic option for me to spend that much money on horribly obsolete and bad sculpts. It's like old dark eldar, yes they technically had models but in reality.. no they didn't as they didn't qualify as models (just misshapen blobs of metal and plastic)

Can somebody do the math on a Wraithlord killing vehicles with two Bright Lances vs. one BL and one Scatter Laser (giving twin-linked most of the time)? I'm pretty sure that two BL's will be better most of the time, but I'm not entirely sure.

(I'll try and do the math myself, but someone else will probably be faster.)

 Magc8Ball wrote:
Can somebody do the math on a Wraithlord killing vehicles with two Bright Lances vs. one BL and one Scatter Laser (giving twin-linked most of the time)? I'm pretty sure that two BL's will be better most of the time, but I'm not entirely sure.

(I'll try and do the math myself, but someone else will probably be faster.)

2 weapons is pretty much always better than 1 TL weapon, not much math needed. 1 TL weapon gets 2 rolls to hit but maximum # of hits = 1. 2 weapons get also 2 rolls to hit but maximum # of hits = 2. So you have same chance to score 1 hit as its 2 rolls but you have a chance ( I think) around 43% to hit with both and a 0% chance to hit twice with a TL weapon.

 Magc8Ball wrote:
Can somebody do the math on a Wraithlord killing vehicles with two Bright Lances vs. one BL and one Scatter Laser (giving twin-linked most of the time)? I'm pretty sure that two BL's will be better most of the time, but I'm not entirely sure.

(I'll try and do the math myself, but someone else will probably be faster.)

Wraithlord (BS4):

Two Bright Lances:
-1.3 BL hits
-AV10: 0.2 glances / 0.9 pens
-AV11: 0.2 glances / 0.7 pens
-AV12+: 0.2 glances / 0.4 pens

Scatter / Bright Lance:
-2.64 SL hits, 0.9 BL hits
-AV10: 0.6 glances / 1.2 pens
-AV11: 0.6 glances / .9 pens
-AV12: 0.6 glances / 0.3 pens
-AV13+: 0.1 glances / 0.3 pens

My rounding might lose a bit of the precision, but it looks like the difference is fairly marginal (except in hilling AV10, which the Eldar Army as a whole has little problem doing)? So I guess that as Kirasu said, two BL's is going to be a better bet because then you'll always have a chance at two pens on 12+.

That's not counting the AP difference, where a BL pen has 1/3 chance to explode while a SL pen has 1/6 chance. Which just further adds to 2 BL > BL/SL.

 shamikebab wrote:

 Farseer_Kaiser wrote:

 shamikebab wrote:
Also I assume Wraithsight has gone if we can't add Warlocks to Wraithguard squads any more?

The WD batrep has a Warlock attached to a Wraithguard unit..

Some people seem to be saying that was a mistake! I'd be surprised if Warlocks can't be attached to them though.

They can be attached to guardian defenders, storm guardians, windrider jetbikes, or support batteries.

On the upside, wraith units no longer need to be babysat or risk losing their turn.

source: pictures of the finished codex unit entries here: http://remotepresence.blogspot.com/

 Capamaru wrote:
He also gained a crappy rule which makes him reroll saves of 6 and his spear is AP3 now. Total waste.

Have you seen his points cost yet?

The wraithlord got more expensive, but I think it got equally better. Not having to twin-link 2 same weapons was pretty huge. 3 base attacks and the sword not taking away a weapon choice is nice too.

I think I'd take two of them over a Wraithknight, unless playing in large games with a single force org. It's comparable in points and cheaper in $.

I really want to run an Avatar this edition. So I plan on taking as many other T6+ creatures I can to take some of the fire away from him. Still not sure if Spiritseer is worth it though.

For allies with my DE, I like Jetbike troops, Jetseer, possibly warwalkers and vipers... all of those fit in very nicely with my DE army.

So the only Interceptor/Skyfire weapons in the whole of the Eldar army are going to be on Dark Reapers? Or am I missing something...?

So Acrobatics just lets a unit run an extra 3".....what.

Every unit that can take an eldar missile launcher can take skyfire ammo

wait, am i reading this right? wraithlords get to take 2x brightlances (or whatever weapons) not being linked, and a sword, AND double flamers???? my new fav. unit if so.

also, anyone selling any jetbikes????lol

Coyote81 wrote:
Every unit that can take an eldar missile launcher can take skyfire ammo

Okay, I didn't see that in the rules lists I've seen.

Follow up question.

So we have access to Skyfire, do we have anything with Interceptor?

Coyote81 wrote:
Every unit that can take an eldar missile launcher can take skyfire ammo

That and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee. EMLs are pretty spendy and skyfire is spendier.

Why release new jetbikes when you can just make them this codexes Grey Hunters ensuring increased sales of a long paid off sculpt.

I see them waiting for sales of GJBs to slow down then drop the Saim Hann supplement with Eldars version of Black Knights and new sculpts to go along with it.

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:

Coyote81 wrote:
Every unit that can take an eldar missile launcher can take skyfire ammo

Okay, I didn't see that in the rules lists I've seen.

Follow up question.

So we have access to Skyfire, do we have anything with Interceptor?

Flakk is listed seperately. Most units only get the plasma and starswarm profile for the missile launcher.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just saw the scan for Illic...and he's a boss.

He also has Hatred and Preferred enemy Necrons. All his shots are precision shots and he can deepstrike rangers or pathfinders to his location without scatter. He also has something called "Mark of the Incomparable Hunter" not sure what that does. He also has 4 attacks (thanks to pistol) at I6 with a power weapon.

This doesn't bode well for Eldar if we still have no solid counter for AV12 flyers except hoping our AV10 flyers can survive long enough to bring them down.

I'd have just liked something similar to the Firestorm. Ah well.

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:
This doesn't bode well for Eldar if we still have no solid counter for AV12 flyers except hoping our AV10 flyers can survive long enough to bring them down.

I'd have just liked something similar to the Firestorm. Ah well.

Aren't Dark Reapers supposed to be the new anti air?

If the reaper rumors/leak is true they will be the anti air. However there is the major issue that they are are in the already clogged Heavy slot, so it'll likly be 1 squad of reapers and 2-3 fliers.

If the reaper rumors/leak is true they will be the anti air. However there is the major issue that they are are in the already clogged Heavy slot, so it'll likly be 1 squad of reapers and 2-3 fliers.

For me it's a no brainer. If every Dark Reaper (and not just the Exarch) can get Eldar Missile Launchers with krak, frag, plasma and skyfire ammo, and because of being relentless can move and shoot heavy weapons, they're the Long Fangs of the codex. Three units every time.

However:

http://lh4.ggpht.com/-nec41Vo1SSo/UaaYXlBzfDI/AAAAAAAAB68/INkUQLjzle8/s1600/1369865489078.jpeg

The wargear list has EML and Reaper Launcher as completely different weapons, so I'm not getting my hopes up. The Reaper Launcher has the krakk missile variant available to it, but not the skyfire missile.

Things that stand out.

Wraithguard with warp scythes, s4 ap2 flamers that pen on a 6, always wound on a 6, and ID on a 6.

17 point GJB that are now bs4 and rend v targets with a toughness value.

 Therion wrote:

If the reaper rumors/leak is true they will be the anti air. However there is the major issue that they are are in the already clogged Heavy slot, so it'll likly be 1 squad of reapers and 2-3 fliers.

For me it's a no brainer. If every Dark Reaper (and not just the Exarch) can get Eldar Missile Launchers with krak, frag, plasma and skyfire ammo, and because of being relentless can move and shoot heavy weapons, they're the Long Fangs of the codex. Three units every time.

Except the reason Long Fangs are so popular are their cost. The cost of Dark Reapers and their upgrades will determine if they are good or not.

Hint: Tau are battle-brothers, and get riptides with interceptor/skyfire...

I mean, besides those, pretty much nothing else in the game gets skyfire and interceptor together. Perhaps Dark Reapers out of LOS is the way to go?

I mean, you're probably going to lose models. But that's why flyers have the points premium - they get to shoot first, almost always. And if your threats are properly placed, they'll be very hard to counter, and he'll spend a lot of time off the board with his flyer.

 pretre wrote:

 Therion wrote:

If the reaper rumors/leak is true they will be the anti air. However there is the major issue that they are are in the already clogged Heavy slot, so it'll likly be 1 squad of reapers and 2-3 fliers.

For me it's a no brainer. If every Dark Reaper (and not just the Exarch) can get Eldar Missile Launchers with krak, frag, plasma and skyfire ammo, and because of being relentless can move and shoot heavy weapons, they're the Long Fangs of the codex. Three units every time.

Except the reason Long Fangs are so popular are their cost. The cost of Dark Reapers and their upgrades will determine if they are good or not.

Well the leaked points cost was 30 points a pop. It's not too bad at all considering they can move and shoot instead of having to turret all game like Long Fangs.

wow those warlock sure do suck now.

 Therion wrote:
Well the leaked points cost was 30 points a pop. It's not too bad at all considering they can move and shoot instead of having to turret all game like Long Fangs.

30ppm plus whatever the cost is for Flakk. So 5 ML is what 150 (assuming the exarch gets one for free). Not bad, but still...

Just noticed something very strange in the leaked codex pictures. The Wraithlord can buy an Eldar Missile Launcher with plasma and starshot missiles. The starshot is the new name for the krak missile. It has no option for flakk missiles. As a matter of fact I can't see anything that has an EML with flakk missiles The same thing (plasma and krak missiles only) repeats itself in the Guardian support weapon entry and the Wave Serpent entry.

 pizzaguardian wrote:
wow those warlock sure do suck now.

Individually? Yup... however, spam them and you can pick and choose which ones go where and what powers. Example: Take 10 Warlocks... that's 10 psychic scream rolls... or whatever the primaris is called out of telepathy

SaganGree wrote:

 pizzaguardian wrote:
wow those warlock sure do suck now.

Individually? Yup... however, spam them and you can pick and choose which ones go where and what powers. Example: Take 10 Warlocks... that's 10 psychic scream rolls... or whatever the primaris is called out of telepathy

Warlocks only get to roll on Runes of Battle. Spiritseers get access to Telepathy and RoB.

The Warlocks need a ghosthelm or some other immunity to perils though.

It's pretty neat though that if you take more Warlocks than just the ones with the primaris conceal/reveal power, and go with for example a bike Seer Council route, one of your Warlocks will probably get the +1/-1 armour save power. A fortuned Bike Council with 2+/4++/shrouded seems tough.

 D6Damager wrote:

SaganGree wrote:

 pizzaguardian wrote:
wow those warlock sure do suck now.

Individually? Yup... however, spam them and you can pick and choose which ones go where and what powers. Example: Take 10 Warlocks... that's 10 psychic scream rolls... or whatever the primaris is called out of telepathy

Warlocks only get to roll on Runes of Battle. Spiritseers get access to Telepathy and RoB.

You also pick where they go immediately after Warlord Traits. Which is before Psychic Powers. At that rate I'll probably only take them if I know I'll use Conceal/Reveal on the destination unit. Even then, it's a psyker with a 28% chance of failure every time.


Edit: 28% failure, not perils. 5.5% chance of perils.

Also, if you're strictly playing by the rules, psychic powers are rolled for after Warlord traits... and the Warlock entry explicitly states that you assign Warlocks to squads after you roll for Warlord traits.

Meaning you have to assign warlocks to squads BEFORE you roll for their powers.

Both shops I play in locally use the BAO deployment order, which has Psypowers being the first thing you roll for, but anywhere else, you're going to have real difficulties getting the right power where you want it.

(I expect that to be FAQ'd or Errata'd post haste, even though it's Totally Cinematic.)

 pizzaguardian wrote:
wow those warlock sure do suck now.

At that price? Yeah. Leadership 8 psykers that are supposed to be used as squad leaders? Yeah. But, dropping tons of Conceal everywhere? Now that isn't too bad... You just have to hope you can reliably get that power off, which is only 72% chance.

Quark wrote:
At that rate I'll probably only take them if I know I'll use Conceal/Reveal on the destination unit. Even then, it's a psyker with a 28% chance of killing himself every time.

28%? It's only ~6% to get double ones or double sixes, no? You don't get Perils just because you failed the leadership test.

"Cinematic" seems to be the new GW codeword for removing ability to plan by making everything random.

It also makes no fluff sense:

Farseer: So Warlock, so that I may best assign you to serve our intricate plan, what powers have you learned in your many years of training?

Warlock: I don't know what I learned

Farseer:

Well I got lucky today, went into GW Ipswich and managed to grab the last two 10man Dire Avengers boxes, so the lad has 30 of them, should be more than enough.

 felixander wrote:

 pizzaguardian wrote:
wow those warlock sure do suck now.

At that price? Yeah. Leadership 8 psykers that are supposed to be used as squad leaders? Yeah. But, dropping tons of Conceal everywhere? Now that isn't too bad... You just have to hope you can reliably get that power off, which is only 72% chance.

Quark wrote:
At that rate I'll probably only take them if I know I'll use Conceal/Reveal on the destination unit. Even then, it's a psyker with a 28% chance of killing himself every time.

28%? It's only ~6% to get double ones or double sixes, no? You don't get Perils just because you failed the leadership test.

I think Eldar lists are going to be so strapped for points that you really have to ask yourself is that 35pt model (more if on a jetbike) worth it? The reveal part of the power seems more useful than the conceal half IMO.

 Magc8Ball wrote:
Also, if you're strictly playing by the rules, psychic powers are rolled for after Warlord traits... and the Warlock entry explicitly states that you assign Warlocks to squads after you roll for Warlord traits.

The only mention I could find about the timing of generating Psychic powers is on page 142: "Before either player deploys their army, you must generate psychic powers for your Psykers."

Rolling for Warlord traits happens during the 'Deployment' phase of game setup. It seems pretty clear that Psychic powers are generated before Warlord traits.

Real psychers roll their powers each game turn to see what they use ! You never know what you will get turn by turn !

Ok, I cant imagine that you would roll after you assign them to a unit, that would be pointless.

I just confirmed and FedEx is delivering my copy of the Codex today.

So excited for this! Eldar look fantastic, can't wait to get my greedy little paws on that book!

 The Spiritseer wrote:
I just confirmed and FedEx is delivering my copy of the Codex today.

For the love of Chipotle.... please let me know if there is anything about Autarchs making Aspect Warriors troops or Banshees assaulting from Wave Serpents

 undertow wrote:

 Magc8Ball wrote:
Also, if you're strictly playing by the rules, psychic powers are rolled for after Warlord traits... and the Warlock entry explicitly states that you assign Warlocks to squads after you roll for Warlord traits.

The only mention I could find about the timing of generating Psychic powers is on page 142: "Before either player deploys their army, you must generate psychic powers for your Psykers."

Rolling for Warlord traits happens during the 'Deployment' phase of game setup. It seems pretty clear that Psychic powers are generated before Warlord traits.

No seems perfectly clear it is generated after warlord traits. BRB p 424 (for the little one it is the ones right after psychıc dıscıplıne)

 felixander wrote:

 The Spiritseer wrote:
I just confirmed and FedEx is delivering my copy of the Codex today.

For the love of Chipotle.... please let me know if there is anything about Autarchs making Aspect Warriors troops or Banshees assaulting from Wave Serpents

Had the codex in hand for the day, autarch didn't seem to do any of that, nor anything allows banshees to assault out of their transport.The army seems to have loads in the way of forcing pinning tests and making it more likely that th target fails... I can't see anything else that'd help out the banshees.

So this is all very suspect since the weapon lists that have been put up are possibly incomplete, but if the Scorpion's Claw is really just Sx2, AP2, without Unwieldy or Specialist, you'll be getting: 2 base attacks, 1 for Mandiblasters (if unchanged), 1 for 2 close combat weapons, 1 for charging (seems likely given fleet). So if this is correct, the Scorpion Exarch is throwing 5 WS5 S6 AP2 I6 attacks on the charge. That's pretty rough in this day and age.

Iracundus wrote:
"Cinematic" seems to be the new GW codeword for removing ability to plan by making everything random.

It also makes no fluff sense:

Farseer: So Warlock, so that I may best assign you to serve our intricate plan, what powers have you learned in your many years of training?

Warlock: I don't know what I learned

Farseer:

lol - thanks I needed that.

Pretty much a perfect description of all psykers in this 'Cinematic' Edition.

Mandiblasters is an S3 AP- hit at I10.

Of course, their Exarch powers can improve their attack too.

You can't even mix match ghost shıeld and swords, the all unıt has to swap on wraıthblade unıts, same applıes for flamers on wraıthguard.

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:

 felixander wrote:

 The Spiritseer wrote:
I just confirmed and FedEx is delivering my copy of the Codex today.

For the love of Chipotle.... please let me know if there is anything about Autarchs making Aspect Warriors troops or Banshees assaulting from Wave Serpents

Had the codex in hand for the day, autarch didn't seem to do any of that, nor anything allows banshees to assault out of their transport.The army seems to have loads in the way of forcing pinning tests and making it more likely that th target fails... I can't see anything else that'd help out the banshees.

This is the day my heart stopped working.

So Warlocks kinda suck.

and we still can't stop a Heldrake from eating everything.

Well, 4 attacks for the Exarch aren't too bad. The Assassin skill would make him ruin almost anyone in close combat. The presence of the Scorpion's Claw as reported makes a mockery of Banshees even further.

Jacob29 wrote:
So Warlocks kinda suck.

and we still can't stop a Heldrake from eating everything.

Unless you uhh shoot it and kill it?

 undertow wrote:

 Magc8Ball wrote:
Also, if you're strictly playing by the rules, psychic powers are rolled for after Warlord traits... and the Warlock entry explicitly states that you assign Warlocks to squads after you roll for Warlord traits.

The only mention I could find about the timing of generating Psychic powers is on page 142: "Before either player deploys their army, you must generate psychic powers for your Psykers."

Rolling for Warlord traits happens during the 'Deployment' phase of game setup. It seems pretty clear that Psychic powers are generated before Warlord traits.

It's specifically mentioned in the Eldar codex that you choose warlord traits, then place your warlocks, then roll for abilities.

Biophysical wrote:
So this is all very suspect since the weapon lists that have been put up are possibly incomplete, but if the Scorpion's Claw is really just Sx2, AP2, without Unwieldy or Specialist, you'll be getting: 2 base attacks, 1 for Mandiblasters (if unchanged), 1 for 2 close combat weapons, 1 for charging (seems likely given fleet). So if this is correct, the Scorpion Exarch is throwing 5 WS5 S6 AP2 I6 attacks on the charge. That's pretty rough in this day and age.

The sword gives +1 strength right? So would the fist be S8 then? It's the same logic used for bikers now how they're now instant death at the elevated strength instead of the base strength.

You only use the +1S of the chainsword when using it as your weapon, unfortunately. The Exarch does have access to the +1S Exarch power, though.

Brother Weasel wrote:

Jacob29 wrote:
So Warlocks kinda suck.

and we still can't stop a Heldrake from eating everything.

Unless you uhh shoot it and kill it?

With what? We have 1 skyfire weapon and it is only str 7...

Quad guns don't assure it will die, and the Heldrake can insta-kill anything of ours. Dark Reapers on the quad gun? yeah they're dead the turn it shows up. AP3 flamer and ignores the aegis defense line.

edit: also lel, that Summary page on that website... Death Spinner's are formatted wrongly.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
You only use the +1S of the chainsword when using it as your weapon, unfortunately. The Exarch does have access to the +1S Exarch power, though.

Ahh, that does make sense

And the weapons we're sure will still give +1 attack for 2x CCW even though they're special weapons?

Brother Weasel wrote:

Jacob29 wrote:
So Warlocks kinda suck.

and we still can't stop a Heldrake from eating everything.

Unless you uhh shoot it and kill it?

I believe he means before they decimate any 3 units they care to on the board.

Jacob29 wrote:

Brother Weasel wrote:

Jacob29 wrote:
So Warlocks kinda suck.

and we still can't stop a Heldrake from eating everything.

Unless you uhh shoot it and kill it?

With what? We have 1 skyfire weapon and it is only str 7...

Quad guns don't assure it will die, and the Heldrake can insta-kill anything of ours. Dark Reapers on the quad gun? yeah they're dead the turn it shows up. AP3 flamer and ignores the aegis defense line.

or the brightlance on the interceptor...

Stores are ready to sell you Eldar starting tomorrow. Here's a couple photos of new Eldar product from Dropzone Games in Maryland.

https://www.facebook.com/DropZoneGames

Brother Weasel wrote:

Jacob29 wrote:


With what? We have 1 skyfire weapon and it is only str 7...

Quad guns don't assure it will die, and the Heldrake can insta-kill anything of ours. Dark Reapers on the quad gun? yeah they're dead the turn it shows up. AP3 flamer and ignores the aegis defense line.

or the brightlance on the interceptor...

So we have to rely on going second, getting the interceptor after the heldrake shows up, and then it has to kill it first.

Because if it doesn't kill it, it sure as hell is gonna die at AV 10.

 BrassScorpion wrote:
Stores are ready to sell you Eldar starting tomorrow. Here's a couple photos of new Eldar product from Dropzone Games in Maryland.

https://www.facebook.com/DropZoneGames

Does this include Pre-order's that are sent to GeeDubs?

Nvs wrote:

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
You only use the +1S of the chainsword when using it as your weapon, unfortunately. The Exarch does have access to the +1S Exarch power, though.

Ahh, that does make sense

And the weapons we're sure will still give +1 attack for 2x CCW even though they're special weapons?

Since they're not "Specialist", you get +1 attacks for having multiples though you can only attack with the profile of one, no mix/matching. Man, looking at it Biting Blade really got the short end. There's no way keeping a Shuriken Pistol is worth Biting Blade over Scorpion's Claw.

 BrassScorpion wrote:
Stores are ready to sell you Eldar starting tomorrow. Here's a couple photos of new Eldar product from Dropzone Games in Maryland.

HHHHNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGG

Jacob29 wrote:

 BrassScorpion wrote:
Stores are ready to sell you Eldar starting tomorrow. Here's a couple photos of new Eldar product from Dropzone Games in Maryland.

https://www.facebook.com/DropZoneGames

Does this include Pre-order's that are sent to GeeDubs?

When you pre-ordered, did you have yours sent to a local store? You might call and ask them if you did.

Jacob29 wrote:

Brother Weasel wrote:

Jacob29 wrote:


With what? We have 1 skyfire weapon and it is only str 7...

Quad guns don't assure it will die, and the Heldrake can insta-kill anything of ours. Dark Reapers on the quad gun? yeah they're dead the turn it shows up. AP3 flamer and ignores the aegis defense line.

or the brightlance on the interceptor...

So we have to rely on going second, getting the interceptor after the heldrake shows up, and then it has to kill it first.

Because if it doesn't kill it, it sure as hell is gonna die at AV 10.

Never said you wouldn't negate all the damage from it... nor did i say that there is a way to take it out first time every time... said it's an option.. if the worries of the helldrake are there, then arm up to shoot it down... take flakk, take fliers...

 kronk wrote:

Jacob29 wrote:

 BrassScorpion wrote:
Stores are ready to sell you Eldar starting tomorrow. Here's a couple photos of new Eldar product from Dropzone Games in Maryland.

https://www.facebook.com/DropZoneGames

Does this include Pre-order's that are sent to GeeDubs?

When you pre-ordered, did you have yours sent to a local store? You might call and ask them if you did.

aye I sent it to my local store. I'm not at home on weekends so figured I would go in person to pick it up.

Jacob29 wrote:

Brother Weasel wrote:

Jacob29 wrote:


With what? We have 1 skyfire weapon and it is only str 7...

Quad guns don't assure it will die, and the Heldrake can insta-kill anything of ours. Dark Reapers on the quad gun? yeah they're dead the turn it shows up. AP3 flamer and ignores the aegis defense line.

or the brightlance on the interceptor...

So we have to rely on going second, getting the interceptor after the heldrake shows up, and then it has to kill it first.

Because if it doesn't kill it, it sure as hell is gonna die at AV 10.

Better take 3, then. Also as many walkers and wraithlords loaded with S6 weapons. Quantity is it's own quality.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jacob29 wrote:


aye I sent it to my local store. I'm not at home on weekends so figured I would go in person to pick it up.

Definitely call them, then. I hope it works out.

Well GW seems to be up on independent supply this time, Firestorm just mailed me to let me know my Codex, cards and spiritseer has been shipped.

My Codex and Cards are in Transit to arrive to my home in a few hours. I'm at the office but there should be someone to pick it up at home for me in less than two hours. Hopefully the stars align...

If I get it today, I may hop back here tonight and answer questions that are still out in the open.

 BrassScorpion wrote:
Stores are ready to sell you Eldar starting tomorrow. Here's a couple photos of new Eldar product from Dropzone Games in Maryland.

https://www.facebook.com/DropZoneGames

Awesome. Really dig those new Jetbikes ...

I wonder if that plastic Farseer still has Copyright 2012 written on it.

So in my current list I was wasting 100 points on an autarch with next to nothing good and had 400 points lying around for use is 2 units of 6 jet bikes with shrouding warlocks and converting the autarch to a laughing mantle biker looking like a good way to go?

 Zweischneid wrote:


Awesome. Really dig those new Jetbikes ...

Careful what you wish for, we could end up with finecrap jetbikes.

 BlueDagger wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:


Awesome. Really dig those new Jetbikes ...

Careful what you wish for, we could end up with finecrap jetbikes.

I feel like the more we talk about it the more likely it is to happen.

Quark wrote:

Nvs wrote:

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
You only use the +1S of the chainsword when using it as your weapon, unfortunately. The Exarch does have access to the +1S Exarch power, though.

Ahh, that does make sense

And the weapons we're sure will still give +1 attack for 2x CCW even though they're special weapons?

Since they're not "Specialist", you get +1 attacks for having multiples though you can only attack with the profile of one, no mix/matching. Man, looking at it Biting Blade really got the short end. There's no way keeping a Shuriken Pistol is worth Biting Blade over Scorpion's Claw.

The biting blade may not be as effective, but it does only cost 5 pts compared to the scorpions claw costing 30, plus you get to keep the shuriken pistol.

Jacob29 wrote:

Brother Weasel wrote:

Jacob29 wrote:
So Warlocks kinda suck.

and we still can't stop a Heldrake from eating everything.

Unless you uhh shoot it and kill it?

With what? We have 1 skyfire weapon and it is only str 7...

Quad guns don't assure it will die, and the Heldrake can insta-kill anything of ours. Dark Reapers on the quad gun? yeah they're dead the turn it shows up. AP3 flamer and ignores the aegis defense line.

edit: also lel, that Summary page on that website... Death Spinner's are formatted wrongly.

Hmmm if only there was some form of aspect warrior flyer that specialised in taking out enemy fliers....oh wait!

Swooping Hawks would have been good in the flyer killer role, it fits their fluff.

 BlueDagger wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:


Awesome. Really dig those new Jetbikes ...

Careful what you wish for, we could end up with finecrap jetbikes.

Oh my gawds, I do NOT want to see how bad that canopy would end up if it were cast in regular resin (well, other than when I cast some up for my Jetbike refresh), much less the horrible QC version that is Finecast.

In another note, though: a 6-man Jetbike Squad with 2 ShurCannons prices out at 122 points. That's just awesome and I'll definitely be building a new squad (the Warlock is something like +50 points, though, so that's less awesome).

 monkeypuzzle wrote:

Jacob29 wrote:

Brother Weasel wrote:

Jacob29 wrote:
So Warlocks kinda suck.

and we still can't stop a Heldrake from eating everything.

Unless you uhh shoot it and kill it?

With what? We have 1 skyfire weapon and it is only str 7...

Quad guns don't assure it will die, and the Heldrake can insta-kill anything of ours. Dark Reapers on the quad gun? yeah they're dead the turn it shows up. AP3 flamer and ignores the aegis defense line.

edit: also lel, that Summary page on that website... Death Spinner's are formatted wrongly.

Hmmm if only there was some form of aspect warrior flyer that specialised in taking out enemy fliers....oh wait!

Yes I cannot wait for my AV10 flier to be vector struck by the Heldrake and die the first turn it shows up.

 Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:
Well GW seems to be up on independent supply this time, Firestorm just mailed me to let me know my Codex, cards and spiritseer has been shipped.

I think GW doesn't really know the tastes of their fanbase. The only kit I can see being in high demand from this release is the Wraithguard. The Riptide was popular because Tau fans already like mecha (And it's $30 cheaper.)

If GW had redone the jetbikes and released a plastic kit for some other aspect warriors you'd probably see the same shortages the Tau release had.

Jacob29 wrote:

Brother Weasel wrote:

Jacob29 wrote:


With what? We have 1 skyfire weapon and it is only str 7...

Quad guns don't assure it will die, and the Heldrake can insta-kill anything of ours. Dark Reapers on the quad gun? yeah they're dead the turn it shows up. AP3 flamer and ignores the aegis defense line.

or the brightlance on the interceptor...

So we have to rely on going second, getting the interceptor after the heldrake shows up, and then it has to kill it first.

Because if it doesn't kill it, it sure as hell is gonna die at AV 10.

 BrassScorpion wrote:
Stores are ready to sell you Eldar starting tomorrow. Here's a couple photos of new Eldar product from Dropzone Games in Maryland.

https://www.facebook.com/DropZoneGames

Does this include Pre-order's that are sent to GeeDubs?

I'd say the Crimson Hunter Exarch has good chance to down the Heldrake. He hits on a 2+ with 4 str8 ap2 36"+ range weapons. Ap2 gives +1 on the damage chart and he can take an exarch power that lets him reroll armor pen rolls on enemy flyers. With vector dancer he can get into a better position than the Heldrake in order to avoid getting vector striked by the drake since most take the baleflamer and that doesn't affect flyers.

Jacob29 wrote:

 monkeypuzzle wrote:

Jacob29 wrote:

Brother Weasel wrote:

Jacob29 wrote:
So Warlocks kinda suck.

and we still can't stop a Heldrake from eating everything.

Unless you uhh shoot it and kill it?

With what? We have 1 skyfire weapon and it is only str 7...

Quad guns don't assure it will die, and the Heldrake can insta-kill anything of ours. Dark Reapers on the quad gun? yeah they're dead the turn it shows up. AP3 flamer and ignores the aegis defense line.

edit: also lel, that Summary page on that website... Death Spinner's are formatted wrongly.

Hmmm if only there was some form of aspect warrior flyer that specialised in taking out enemy fliers....oh wait!

Yes I cannot wait for my AV10 flier to be vector struck by the Heldrake and die the first turn it shows up.

What is your flier doing in the path of a helldrake if you are going first?

Keep in mind that the Tau and Eldar are Battle Bros. Take a couple Missilesides.

RogueRegault wrote:

 Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:
Well GW seems to be up on independent supply this time, Firestorm just mailed me to let me know my Codex, cards and spiritseer has been shipped.

I think GW doesn't really know the tastes of their fanbase. The only kit I can see being in high demand from this release is the Wraithguard. The Riptide was popular because Tau fans already like mecha (And it's $30 cheaper.)

If GW had redone the jetbikes and released a plastic kit for some other aspect warriors you'd probably see the same shortages the Tau release had.

GW is still a business and want to make money, re makes of old models don't make as much money as new unit model.

Tau sold out since all the stuff was new plastic kits of units that didn't exist.

In the case of the Jetbike you all keep complaining about and aspect warriors. Why would people RE-BUY units they all ready have ? The Wraigthknight is new, The wraithguard got completely redone with new weapon options, Flyers are new as well.

They didn't re-due the jet bikes and aspect since people already own those and they didn't change the weapons options for them. They want people with existing Eldar armies to buy the stuff they don't have and is new. Not take the chance of them going "Well i don't need new jet bikes I already have 12 of those and they didn't give them new options, I can wait."

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

RogueRegault wrote:

 Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:
Well GW seems to be up on independent supply this time, Firestorm just mailed me to let me know my Codex, cards and spiritseer has been shipped.

I think GW doesn't really know the tastes of their fanbase. The only kit I can see being in high demand from this release is the Wraithguard. The Riptide was popular because Tau fans already like mecha (And it's $30 cheaper.)

If GW had redone the jetbikes and released a plastic kit for some other aspect warriors you'd probably see the same shortages the Tau release had.

GW is still a business and want to make money, re makes of old models don't make as much money as new unit model.

Tau sold out since all the stuff was new plastic kits of units that didn't exist.

In the case of the Jetbike you all keep complaining about and aspect warriors. Why would people RE-BUY units they all ready have ? The Wraigthknight is new, The wraithguard got completely redone with new weapon options, Flyers are new as well.

They didn't re-due the jet bikes and aspect since people already own those and they didn't change the weapons options for them. They want people with existing Eldar armies to buy the stuff they don't have and is new. Not take the chance of them going "Well i don't need new jet bikes I already have 12 of those and they didn't give them new options, I can wait."

XV8s, Hammerheads/Skyrays, XV88s, and Pathfinders are new and didn't exist?

 The Spiritseer wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

RogueRegault wrote:

 Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:
Well GW seems to be up on independent supply this time, Firestorm just mailed me to let me know my Codex, cards and spiritseer has been shipped.

I think GW doesn't really know the tastes of their fanbase. The only kit I can see being in high demand from this release is the Wraithguard. The Riptide was popular because Tau fans already like mecha (And it's $30 cheaper.)

If GW had redone the jetbikes and released a plastic kit for some other aspect warriors you'd probably see the same shortages the Tau release had.

GW is still a business and want to make money, re makes of old models don't make as much money as new unit model.

Tau sold out since all the stuff was new plastic kits of units that didn't exist.

In the case of the Jetbike you all keep complaining about and aspect warriors. Why would people RE-BUY units they all ready have ? The Wraigthknight is new, The wraithguard got completely redone with new weapon options, Flyers are new as well.

They didn't re-due the jet bikes and aspect since people already own those and they didn't change the weapons options for them. They want people with existing Eldar armies to buy the stuff they don't have and is new. Not take the chance of them going "Well i don't need new jet bikes I already have 12 of those and they didn't give them new options, I can wait."

XV8s, Hammerheads/Skyrays, XV88s, and Pathfinders are new and didn't exist?

Pathfinders got all new weapon as did broadsides.

Stores I walked into had plenty of hammer heads and Crisis suites.

Point is weapon load outs on Jetbikes and Aspect did not change, Why make new models for them ?

"Cinematic" seems to be the new GW codeword for removing ability to plan by making everything random.

Powers were randomly draw from a deck in 2nd edition. People managed fine.

It also makes no fluff sense:

Farseer: So Warlock, so that I may best assign you to serve our intricate plan, what powers have you learned in your many years of training?

Warlock: I don't know what I learned

Powers may be generated on a table, but then you get to assign your warlocks to units before deploying anyways so you will always be able to stick the warlocks where needed based on the powers they have.

Nvs wrote:

 undertow wrote:

 Magc8Ball wrote:
Also, if you're strictly playing by the rules, psychic powers are rolled for after Warlord traits... and the Warlock entry explicitly states that you assign Warlocks to squads after you roll for Warlord traits.

The only mention I could find about the timing of generating Psychic powers is on page 142: "Before either player deploys their army, you must generate psychic powers for your Psykers."

Rolling for Warlord traits happens during the 'Deployment' phase of game setup. It seems pretty clear that Psychic powers are generated before Warlord traits.

It's specifically mentioned in the Eldar codex that you choose warlord traits, then place your warlocks, then roll for abilities.

Well, seeing as how the codex hasn't been released yet, it's a bit difficult to see what is specifically mentioned isn't it?

If that's what the book actually says, that's pretty lame.

 undertow wrote:

Nvs wrote:


It's specifically mentioned in the Eldar codex that you choose warlord traits, then place your warlocks, then roll for abilities.

Well, seeing as how the codex hasn't been released yet, it's a bit difficult to see what is specifically mentioned isn't it?

Not that hard, really.

The crimson hunter is a great flyer but quite fragile...

Brother Weasel wrote:


What is your flier doing in the path of a helldrake if you are going first?

How exactly do you avoid it? The only way I can imagine is coming on at a very steep angle and going across your own army. In which case you:

a) probably wont get to shoot at anything
b) Can't shoot at his Heldrake when it comes on

So for our flyer to kill theirs we NEED to go Second. His Drake needs to come on BEFORE ours and he needs to not have a quad gun. While the Quad gun might not kill it, at AV10 .... it's fairly likely.

Not really, it has vector dancer so it's possible to stay out of Vector Strike range and still be able to shoot the turn it comes in.


Having to assign warlocks without knowing what powers they have is lame though. Apparently random powers in itself isn'r random enough.

Yeah, I'm a bit shakey on the Eldar flier just yet. Having the Autaurch help determine when he comes in may help, but I'm liking the Fear bomb version so far and the helldrake will just eat it and run while I assume nuking the rest of the army

 Magc8Ball wrote:

 undertow wrote:

Nvs wrote:


It's specifically mentioned in the Eldar codex that you choose warlord traits, then place your warlocks, then roll for abilities.

Well, seeing as how the codex hasn't been released yet, it's a bit difficult to see what is specifically mentioned isn't it?

Not that hard, really.

It's pretty amazing that you can tell what rules Kelly wrote from the rules Ward forced him to add in or change. This forced "cinematic" with warlocks reminds me of the same descrepency I see in the Helldrake rules coming out of left field and not fitting in design with the rest of Kelly's CSM dex.

Jacob29 wrote:

Brother Weasel wrote:


What is your flier doing in the path of a helldrake if you are going first?

How exactly do you avoid it? The only way I can imagine is coming on at a very steep angle and going across your own army. In which case you:

a) probably wont get to shoot at anything
b) Can't shoot at his Heldrake when it comes on

So for our flyer to kill theirs we NEED to go Second. His Drake needs to come on BEFORE ours and he needs to not have a quad gun. While the Quad gun might not kill it, at AV10 .... it's fairly likely.

The Eldar flyer has vector dancer and out ranges it. So you should be able to avoid vector strikes from the heldrake with a bit of finesse and practice while still being able to line up the shots you need.

Now, whether you can also avoid getting rapid fire from CSM bolters and hit with quad guns and blastmasters is another matter.

Jacob29 wrote:

Brother Weasel wrote:


What is your flier doing in the path of a helldrake if you are going first?

How exactly do you avoid it? The only way I can imagine is coming on at a very steep angle and going across your own army. In which case you:

a) probably wont get to shoot at anything
b) Can't shoot at his Heldrake when it comes on

So for our flyer to kill theirs we NEED to go Second. His Drake needs to come on BEFORE ours and he needs to not have a quad gun. While the Quad gun might not kill it, at AV10 .... it's fairly likely.

a) not worried about shooing ground targets if i'm more worried about the helldrake, so yes, come in so it can't fly over you.
b) is he not going to come on and try and kill something... if so he'll be closer... next turn you get to move and shoot....

better target that quad gun on the first turn then...

Just realized that anything that is T6 or T7 does not get an armor save from shariken catapults lol

Just find that funny for some reason.

Starting from scratch and I'm going to pick up a Battleforce box... think it's worth buying the old one or the new one based on what we know?

It's not a lot different in price, but I'm leaning towards the new box for the Vyper since it will fit a fast attack slot.

Any thoughts on how the Eldar flyers compare with the Dark Eldar ones? Vector Dancer is a big plus, helping you keep it on the board longer and get more rear armor shots. On the other hand, they seem to be a fair bit more expensive both points and cash-wise than the DE planes.

 CaptKaruthors wrote:

"Cinematic" seems to be the new GW codeword for removing ability to plan by making everything random.

Powers were randomly draw from a deck in 2nd edition. People managed fine.

It also makes no fluff sense:

Farseer: So Warlock, so that I may best assign you to serve our intricate plan, what powers have you learned in your many years of training?

Warlock: I don't know what I learned

Powers may be generated on a table, but then you get to assign your warlocks to units before deploying anyways so you will always be able to stick the warlocks where needed based on the powers they have.

Nope you assign warlocks prior to power generation, so the only thing you can gurantee is shrouding on your units.

 Sephyr wrote:
Any thoughts on how the Eldar flyers compare with the Dark Eldar ones? Vector Dancer is a big plus, helping you keep it on the board longer and get more rear armor shots. On the other hand, they seem to be a fair bit more expensive both points and cash-wise than the DE planes.

I think they are significantly better then the DE flyers. They are WAY more focused (a fighter that actually is designed to hunt other planes?!?! the heck you say!) and vector dancer is huge. They arent much more expensive either (only 15pts) for way better rules.

yeap with vector dancer you can actually stay at your board edge indefinitely (close to it i mean) and keep shooting

So Warlocks are utterly useless? How the **** can they muck that up :(

Im not too bothered about still having the old jetbikes - im actually glad they didnt re-do them because I have plenty of the current ones so its better for me to just keep them and use the new rules.

As for the anti flyer stuff, I wouldn't be bothered if a helldrake took out a few reapers behind an aegis line - id just be relieved that my now bs4 walkers and vypers with scatter lasers were around. Especially with guide/prescience, theyre fantastic anti air without the need for skyfire.

Actually, the thing im most looking forward to is the new codex and rules rather than new models. Warp spiders will also be great against flyers - they'll be s7 against vehicles and with their 6+2d6 movement and run/shoot, they'll be able to reach flyers from quite some distance away.

Does this include Pre-order's that are sent to GeeDubs?

GW stores have stock ready to sell you as well and any pre-orders sent to your local GW store should have arrived by now. I know my pre-ordered Eldar stuff is already sitting at my local GW store waiting for me to pick it up on Saturday.

https://www.facebook.com/GWBowie

 pizzaguardian wrote:

 CaptKaruthors wrote:

"Cinematic" seems to be the new GW codeword for removing ability to plan by making everything random.

Powers were randomly draw from a deck in 2nd edition. People managed fine.

It also makes no fluff sense:

Farseer: So Warlock, so that I may best assign you to serve our intricate plan, what powers have you learned in your many years of training?

Warlock: I don't know what I learned

Powers may be generated on a table, but then you get to assign your warlocks to units before deploying anyways so you will always be able to stick the warlocks where needed based on the powers they have.

Nope you assign warlocks prior to power generation, so the only thing you can gurantee is shrouding on your units.

If assignment and power generation both happen immediately after you generate your warlord trait, could it be argued that they occur at the same time, and thus the order is up to the player whose turn it is?

I don't play Eldar, so I don't have a vested interest one way or the other.

 shamikebab wrote:
So Warlocks are utterly useless? How the **** can they muck that up :(

Giving your guardians or JB's a 3+ cover 72% of the time is nothing to scoff at IMHO.

A seercouncil with it's commulutive buffs/debuffs has the potential to be pretty mean but I think the lack of a jet farseer hurts them the most actually.

@undertow

one can only wish but no, assignment says "immediately" after warlord traits and power generation is just after.

It is pretty much like force weapons and fnp

Warlocks splitting off to other units = Took too big of a hit. Having 1 randomized power makes them completely unreliable for a specialized force such as Eldar. Attaching a warlock biker to a unit of GJB jsut to find out he gets power 3, 5, or 6 would heartly piss me off. Yes, you could just stick with shrouding but that kinda defeats the purpose of the other powers.

That said, a 10 man unit jetbike seer council is now 500pts and will likely be 2+ armor, 3+ cover (2+ when full out), S/I/WS +1, and inflict a -1 armor. That has a lot of potential to be rediculously mean. Attach a new kitted farseer and autarch... it could be one hell of a deathstar.

The farseer odds on going Fortune however... that is pretty much my sadest point about the entire damn dex.

 BlueDagger wrote:
Warlocks splitting off to other units = Took too big of a hit. Having 1 randomized power makes them completely unreliable for a specialized force such as Eldar. Attaching a warlock biker to a unit of GJB jsut to find out he gets power 3, 5, or 6 would heartly piss me off. Yes, you could just stick with shrouding but that kinda defeats the purpose of the other powers.

That said, a 10 man unit jetbike seer council is now 500pts and will likely be 2+ armor, 3+ cover (2+ when full out), S/I/WS +1, and inflict a -1 armor. That has a lot of potential to be rediculously mean. Attach a new kitted farseer and autarch... it could be one hell of a deathstar.

The farseer odds on going Fortune however... that is pretty much my sadest point about the entire damn dex.

Have 2 farseers

 Popenfresh wrote:

 shamikebab wrote:
So Warlocks are utterly useless? How the **** can they muck that up :(

Giving your guardians or JB's a 3+ cover 72% of the time is nothing to scoff at IMHO.

A seercouncil with it's commulutive buffs/debuffs has the potential to be pretty mean but I think the lack of a jet farseer hurts them the most actually.

So is it that farseers cannot join units anymore? My understanding is the farseer can still take a jetbike in the new rules?

 pizzaguardian wrote:

 BlueDagger wrote:
Warlocks splitting off to other units = Took too big of a hit. Having 1 randomized power makes them completely unreliable for a specialized force such as Eldar. Attaching a warlock biker to a unit of GJB jsut to find out he gets power 3, 5, or 6 would heartly piss me off. Yes, you could just stick with shrouding but that kinda defeats the purpose of the other powers.

That said, a 10 man unit jetbike seer council is now 500pts and will likely be 2+ armor, 3+ cover (2+ when full out), S/I/WS +1, and inflict a -1 armor. That has a lot of potential to be rediculously mean. Attach a new kitted farseer and autarch... it could be one hell of a deathstar.

The farseer odds on going Fortune however... that is pretty much my sadest point about the entire damn dex.

Have 2 farseers

Excuse me guys but you are running ahead of yourself, it says warlocks are assigned immediately after you roll Warlord traits. Rolling for warlord traits says before either player deploys they must each determine warlord traits and it says this is done specifically because some warlord traits affect deployment. Rolling psychic powers just says before either player deploys. How does that make it that Warlocks can't choose where to go?

If I'm not being clear my meaning is the book doesn't say powers have to be rolled after warlord traits and before deployment, it just says before deployment. So why can't you roll power, warlord traits, assign warlocks then deploy?

 pizzaguardian wrote:


Have 2 farseers

Kinda missing the point there. Went from 100% of the time having 2 fortunes available from a single model to maybe having it from one. Given on how much Eldar's survivability depends on a double save, the whole army just got a LOT squishier. I try to repress the memory the core issue of 6th psykers and it's "random is funz!" mentality. Fluff wise, it's just atrocious.

 BlueDagger wrote:

 pizzaguardian wrote:


Have 2 farseers

Kinda missing the point there. Went from 100% of the time having 2 fortunes available from a single model to maybe having it from one. Given on how much Eldar's survivability depends on a double save, the whole army just got a LOT squishier. I try to repress the memory the core issue of 6th psykers and it's "random is funz!" mentality. Fluff wise, it's just atrocious.

Yep, which is why they gave us 4 options for T6 troops, reduced the cost of EJB t4 3+ troops, and allow wave serpents to turn pens into glances.

 BlueDagger wrote:

 pizzaguardian wrote:


Have 2 farseers

Kinda missing the point there. Went from 100% of the time having 2 fortunes available from a single model to maybe having it from one. Given on how much Eldar's survivability depends on a double save, the whole army just got a LOT squishier. I try to repress the memory the core issue of 6th psykers and it's "random is funz!" mentality. Fluff wise, it's just atrocious.

OMG, their survivability does not DEPEND on it. Get over it. If you had to have this one power to win, how do other just as fragile armies win with out it. Tau , guard, Dark eldar and demons are a few T3 armies that dont need to re-roll their saves.

Marines don't any re-roll saves and they do just fine. Hell my orks do pretty good still and all they got is a 6+. Even with this all the new ignore cover weapons popping up.

Now you have to have to use a bit more tactics and have that random factor in your army like every one else, Any general can win with exactly what he wants, the great ones can win with whats given to them.

 Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:
Well GW seems to be up on independent supply this time, Firestorm just mailed me to let me know my Codex, cards and spiritseer has been shipped.

Other independent retailers would disagree. Some have said allow 3 weeks to receive your orders.

 D6Damager wrote:

 BlueDagger wrote:

 pizzaguardian wrote:


Have 2 farseers

Kinda missing the point there. Went from 100% of the time having 2 fortunes available from a single model to maybe having it from one. Given on how much Eldar's survivability depends on a double save, the whole army just got a LOT squishier. I try to repress the memory the core issue of 6th psykers and it's "random is funz!" mentality. Fluff wise, it's just atrocious.

Yep, which is why they gave us 4 options for T6 troops, reduced the cost of EJB t4 3+ troops, and allow wave serpents to turn pens into glances.

4 options for T6 troops - All of which have crap for range, are still very point heavy, and are slow compare to the rest of the dex.
Reduced the cost of GJB - They removed the capabilities attached warlock, good luck with those moral tests
Wave Serpents can turn pens into glances - yep and they lost turning str 9/10 to s8 and melta protection. Serpent's are still suck anyhoo due to 6th ed transport limitations and melee fodder.

I don't know guy's... Individually locks may be subpar, but as a seer council? Maledictions and blessings are cumulative. With a bit of luck you'll have a unit with a 2++ save that can knock of 2 saving points from the enemy. Not to mention being able to reduce the enemy's strength ..., I wonder, if you reduce a terminator to str. 2, does that mean his fist hits at str. 4? I'm also curious if the 1+ str can be applied to armorbane? Then there's the potential to make them fearless, fast as hell and so on. Jetcouncils look dangerous as ever. And a footcouncils can be accompanied by a farseer, adding even more to the buffing/debuffing.

Seercouncils look like a very hard hitting, versatile, reasonably priced mini deathstar unit to me.