Vaktathi wrote:
I've had the book for about 8 hours now, I'm surprised at how closely this update resembles Kelly's update of CSM's. The do-take units and don't-take units are largely the same with a couple exceptions and there's one or two very powerful new units.

HuH?

does not compute

 Vaktathi wrote:
I've had the book for about 8 hours now, I'm surprised at how closely this update resembles Kelly's update of CSM's. The do-take units and don't-take units are largely the same with a couple exceptions and there's one or two very powerful new units.

Noone honestly ever expects something innovative or non-spammy from Phil Kelly. I'd be surprised if it didn't follow in the shoes of Long-Fang-Venom-Heldrake-spam like a charm.

At least the new models are nice.

Raesvelg wrote:


I'd say no. Focused Witchfire just means that if you fail to roll low enough on the test, (5 or less, iirc), then the target is randomly chosen within the squad. Doesn't affect the whole unit.

Which is why it is a kinda crap power. You're risking dropping your Farseer's stats, and can't still reliably hit characters. Might be good against solo monstrous creatures though.

Crimson - Seems that way i guess.
Against nids its pretty nasty as most of the MC's are not synapse, so have gak LD.

Silly question, but i dont have the book and have not seen any scans, but do eldar have any way of dropping LD?
If so, then its even better.
Used to rely on my nids dropping units LD and then bombing them with tests, or using it on a combat unit before hitting it with boneswords.

Yes, but it's a warlock psychic power. Drops leadership by 3.

Seems pretty useful to me then.
If mind war works roughly the same, your at an instant +3 against anyone you use it on.

So against a LD6-7 MC, your doing 3-4 wounds as standard, with an extra 3 from the drop.

I allways liked mind war, was a gamble some times, but usually paid off in the end.

Theorius wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
I've had the book for about 8 hours now, I'm surprised at how closely this update resembles Kelly's update of CSM's. The do-take units and don't-take units are largely the same with a couple exceptions and there's one or two very powerful new units.

HuH?

does not compute

what I mean is, the units that were really good under the old codex are largely still really good now, the units that were bad under the old codex still largely remain bad now, and internal balance is largely non-existent.

 Zweischneid wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
I've had the book for about 8 hours now, I'm surprised at how closely this update resembles Kelly's update of CSM's. The do-take units and don't-take units are largely the same with a couple exceptions and there's one or two very powerful new units.

Noone honestly ever expects something innovative or non-spammy from Phil Kelly. I'd be surprised if it didn't follow in the shoes of Long-Fang-Venom-Heldrake-spam like a charm.

At least the new models are nice.

Eh, perhaps true. I was very surprised he was the one chosen to re-do Eldar, they usually don't have the same person update their own book.

To be honest, PK has a weird record on these things. His 4E eldar update, while having its own very noticeable issues, did shake up the Eldar some. His 4E Orks completely breathed new life into that faction, as did his DE (though admittedly, the models did have a *ton* to do with that as well), but on the other hand his SW's (while greatly expanding the SW playerbase) turned them into a very cookie-cutter gunline or multiwound beast assault army, and his CSM book can largely be described as a 4.5E book.


Some of the stuff they left hanging seems plainly obvious as "why didn't you do something more with that?" or just plain lazy (like making Guardians WS4/BS4 I5 which solves none of their problems and just contributes to general stat inflation instead of having them become a really useful battlefield artillery unit where all those artisans/technicians/craftsmen can put their skills to work), something I feel really reinforces my view of the CSM book having largely been a phoned in last-minute update meant for 5E.

That's assuming that you actually roll the power for at least one Warlock, he starts the turn in range (it's a Malediction), actually pulls off the cast (LD8) and the opponent doesn't pass Deny the Witch. Then you can boost your Mind War chances.

The material I got on hand doesn't specify what Illic's 2 entries do:

Walker of the HIdden Path and Voidbringer.

Can anyone tell me what those 2 are about? Illic's one of the few things from the update that's potentially interesting for me as a Dark Eldar player looking for Allied support.

 Jackal wrote:
Crimson - Seems that way i guess.
Against nids its pretty nasty as most of the MC's are not synapse, so have gak LD.

Silly question, but i dont have the book and have not seen any scans, but do eldar have any way of dropping LD?
If so, then its even better.
Used to rely on my nids dropping units LD and then bombing them with tests, or using it on a combat unit before hitting it with boneswords.

Er what? The two most common Nid MCs that form the basis for all competitive Nids armies (and make them one of the top armies around) are both Synapse MCs, and Ld10 psykers to boot.

Most of the nids MC's are not synapse, was quite clear right?
Didnt say anything about common ones.

Tyrant and tervi are synapse.
Fex, trygon, mawloc, tyranno, harpy, spore.

Missed anything from the list?

 Alkasyn wrote:
The material I got on hand doesn't specify what Illic's 2 entries do:

Walker of the HIdden Path and Voidbringer.

Can anyone tell me what those 2 are about? Illic's one of the few things from the update that's potentially interesting for me as a Dark Eldar player looking for Allied support.

Voidbringer is his special sniper rifle and Walker of the hidden path allows Illic to infiltrate without having to care about enemy proximity AND let's him deep strike in a unit of pathfinders next to him IIRC

 Jackal wrote:
Most of the nids MC's are not synapse, was quite clear right?
Didnt say anything about common ones.

Tyrant and tervi are synapse.
Fex, trygon, mawloc, tyranno, harpy, spore.

Missed anything from the list?

Trygon prime is a synapse, right?

Looking over the Codex, I see GW really messed up big time with the Wraithknight. It is in desperate need of a FAQ as otherwise it can only fire 2 weapons, rendering all those model pictures and artwork showing it with 4 guns to be completely useless.

As it is, it comes standard with 2 heavy wraithcannons. Pre-FAQ, the realistic choices are to either leave it as is, or the only other viable options are "suncannon + shield" + shoulder scatter laser (to twin link the suncannon). Ghostglaive + shield is pointless as the ghostglaive's effects are half wasted since Wraithknight is at max Strength already. However that means it is left with just 2 shoulder weapon mounts as ranged weapons. The shield can only be taken as those 2 combinations so there aren't many choices at all. A ghostglaive armed Wraithknight could jump into close combat (since it is Jump Monstrous Creature) but still seems overpriced considering its WS.

Trygon prime is a synapse, right?

Yes, with an upgrade.
Not as standard though.

Iracundus wrote:
Looking over the Codex, I see GW really messed up big time with the Wraithknight. It is in desperate need of a FAQ as otherwise it can only fire 2 weapons, rendering all those model pictures and artwork showing it with 4 guns to be completely useless.

As it is, it comes standard with 2 heavy wraithcannons. Pre-FAQ, the realistic choices are to either leave it as is, or the only other viable options are "suncannon + shield" + shoulder scatter laser (to twin link the suncannon). Ghostglaive + shield is pointless as the ghostglaive's effects are half wasted since Wraithknight is at max Strength already. However that means it is left with just 2 shoulder weapon mounts as ranged weapons. The shield can only be taken as those 2 combinations so there aren't many choices at all. A ghostglaive armed Wraithknight could jump into close combat (since it is Jump Monstrous Creature) but still seems overpriced considering its WS.

Remember they haven't FAQ'ed Tzeentch chariots into usefulness yet (unless you consider stationary chariots with short-range weaponry useful). I wouldn't hold out for a quick fix.

 Shandara wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
Looking over the Codex, I see GW really messed up big time with the Wraithknight. It is in desperate need of a FAQ as otherwise it can only fire 2 weapons, rendering all those model pictures and artwork showing it with 4 guns to be completely useless.

As it is, it comes standard with 2 heavy wraithcannons. Pre-FAQ, the realistic choices are to either leave it as is, or the only other viable options are "suncannon + shield" + shoulder scatter laser (to twin link the suncannon). Ghostglaive + shield is pointless as the ghostglaive's effects are half wasted since Wraithknight is at max Strength already. However that means it is left with just 2 shoulder weapon mounts as ranged weapons. The shield can only be taken as those 2 combinations so there aren't many choices at all. A ghostglaive armed Wraithknight could jump into close combat (since it is Jump Monstrous Creature) but still seems overpriced considering its WS.

Remember they haven't FAQ'ed Tzeentch chariots into usefulness yet (unless you consider stationary chariots with short-range weaponry useful). I wouldn't hold out for a quick fix.

I wonder if GW is even aware of this big gaping hole in the rules of the star of their new release. Maybe people should notify them.

Iracundus wrote:
Looking over the Codex, I see GW really messed up big time with the Wraithknight. It is in desperate need of a FAQ as otherwise it can only fire 2 weapons, rendering all those model pictures and artwork showing it with 4 guns to be completely useless.

I somewhat agree. To me the sword option is obviously terrible; you are shelling out a good number of points to have only shoulder guns. For example, 2 shoulder lances, sword, and shield gets you that 5++ and lets you fire all your guns but costs way too much. The suncannon + shield, possibly including scatter laser for twin linking, costs a huge amount as well and in the end you're really just getting a weakish executioner. The heavy dcannons are pretty cool with the long range, and people consider tyrannofexes to be alright for a similar gun load out, so I favor that setup. You end up with 2 good long range guns for a bit too many points, but you have toughness 8 and 6 wounds so odds are you are going to stick around the whole game and can easily get linebreaker or an objective in the end game which the jump pack helps with.

My current comparison in the heavy slot would be stock 240p wraithknight vs 165p wraithlord with dual lances and swords. Their firepower is surprisingly similar, their close combat ability also fairly similar, but the wraithlord has twice as many wounds and is more maneuverable. Looking at it from this point of view I could see the wraithknight being worth it from an objective taking/game winning point of view, it is very tough.

EDIT: wraithknight has more wounds, not wraithlord. der

 ph34r wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
Looking over the Codex, I see GW really messed up big time with the Wraithknight. It is in desperate need of a FAQ as otherwise it can only fire 2 weapons, rendering all those model pictures and artwork showing it with 4 guns to be completely useless.

I somewhat agree. To me the sword option is obviously terrible; you are shelling out a good number of points to have only shoulder guns. For example, 2 shoulder lances, sword, and shield gets you that 5++ and lets you fire all your guns but costs way too much. The suncannon + shield, possibly including scatter laser for twin linking, costs a huge amount as well and in the end you're really just getting a weakish executioner. The heavy dcannons are pretty cool with the long range, and people consider tyrannofexes to be alright for a similar gun load out, so I favor that setup. You end up with 2 good long range guns for a bit too many points, but you have toughness 8 and 6 wounds so odds are you are going to stick around the whole game and can easily get linebreaker or an objective in the end game which the jump pack helps with.

My current comparison in the heavy slot would be stock 240p wraithknight vs 165p wraithlord with dual lances and swords. Their firepower is surprisingly similar, their close combat ability also fairly similar, but the wraithlord has twice as many wounds and is more maneuverable. Looking at it from this point of view I could see the wraithknight being worth it from an objective taking/game winning point of view, it is very tough.

Even the Heavy Wraithcannon is a bit..meh as the Distort rules are almost entirely wasted on something of that Strength anyway. I wonder whether the special blinding rule of the scattershield is going to realistically make any difference. If it were in the middle of a melee, I guess it could be like the giant disco ball and blind all the enemy while most of the Eldar would pass their tests and remain unblinded.

On a different note, is it me or do the monofilament weapons suddenly make decent anti light vehicle weapons now since most vehicles lack Initiative, it is effectively S7 all the time against them.

Is anyone else disappointed that Shining Spears no longer have the option to take a shuriken catapult?

 warpspider89 wrote:
Is anyone else disappointed that Shining Spears no longer have the option to take a shuriken catapult?

They do. They have Eldar Jetbikes and those are listed as having a twin linked catapult as standard.

On the Wraith Knight - can you have sword and shield on one arm and long gun on the other - as I think that would look cool

 Mr Morden wrote:
On the Wraith Knight - can you have sword and shield on one arm and long gun on the other - as I think that would look cool

No. The rules only allow sword + shield or suncannon + shield. No other combinations permitted that include sword or shield.

And reading Jes Goodwin's stuff in the WD about the Wraithknight and how the Eldar pilot is curled up in foetal position in the chest made me think...that head looks big enough for a curled up Eldar and it has a crystal dome (presumably of some hard Eldar material) so why not that instead of making it like the Riptide? An Eldar curled up in the head or in a lotus meditative position might have worked, and maybe then the chest wouldn't have had to be puffed outwards.

Ah well thanks for the info

So looks like the first list has been put up in the army list section. What lists are y'all thinking of running?

Iracundus wrote:

 ph34r wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
Looking over the Codex, I see GW really messed up big time with the Wraithknight. It is in desperate need of a FAQ as otherwise it can only fire 2 weapons, rendering all those model pictures and artwork showing it with 4 guns to be completely useless.

I somewhat agree. To me the sword option is obviously terrible; you are shelling out a good number of points to have only shoulder guns. For example, 2 shoulder lances, sword, and shield gets you that 5++ and lets you fire all your guns but costs way too much. The suncannon + shield, possibly including scatter laser for twin linking, costs a huge amount as well and in the end you're really just getting a weakish executioner. The heavy dcannons are pretty cool with the long range, and people consider tyrannofexes to be alright for a similar gun load out, so I favor that setup. You end up with 2 good long range guns for a bit too many points, but you have toughness 8 and 6 wounds so odds are you are going to stick around the whole game and can easily get linebreaker or an objective in the end game which the jump pack helps with.

My current comparison in the heavy slot would be stock 240p wraithknight vs 165p wraithlord with dual lances and swords. Their firepower is surprisingly similar, their close combat ability also fairly similar, but the wraithlord has twice as many wounds and is more maneuverable. Looking at it from this point of view I could see the wraithknight being worth it from an objective taking/game winning point of view, it is very tough.

Even the Heavy Wraithcannon is a bit..meh as the Distort rules are almost entirely wasted on something of that Strength anyway. I wonder whether the special blinding rule of the scattershield is going to realistically make any difference. If it were in the middle of a melee, I guess it could be like the giant disco ball and blind all the enemy while most of the Eldar would pass their tests and remain unblinded.

On a different note, is it me or do the monofilament weapons suddenly make decent anti light vehicle weapons now since most vehicles lack Initiative, it is effectively S7 all the time against them.

The naked loadout it reasonably well priced, the other loadouts not so much. The Sword/shield option should probably be base for about 200pts, and then pay to upgrade to the big guns.
Probably a better comparison would be 2 Prisms, since the S9 AP1 Lance Profile is much closer to the S10 AP2 Cannons the WK has. The Prisms work out as 10pts less, with similar durability but superior range and speed but lose the CC ability. The biggest thing that is making it an attractive option for me is that the HQ slot is so crowded, so being able to get units worth of firepower on a single unit is actually helpful (so I can still run 2 Nightspinners, that S8 pie plate against side armour is very nice).
Remember the Distort rules cause ID on 6's as well as the auto pen rule, which means MCs have to hug cover near you or risk being zapped from across the board.

Jackal wrote:Most of the nids MC's are not synapse, was quite clear right?
Didnt say anything about common ones.

Tyrant and tervi are synapse.
Fex, trygon, mawloc, tyranno, harpy, spore.

Missed anything from the list?

People run Harpies and Mawlocs in your area? Every single Nid army I have faced since 6th edition dropped has been running at least 1 Flyrant and at least 2 Tervigons. I've seen the occasional Dakkafex and a couple of Trygons (once was only because the guy hadn't finished assembling his 3rd Tervigon), haven't seen Mawlocs since about a month or two after the codex was released (when people realised that they were terrible) and I have literally never seen a Harpy.

 Enigma wrote:

 Alkasyn wrote:
The material I got on hand doesn't specify what Illic's 2 entries do:

Walker of the HIdden Path and Voidbringer.

Can anyone tell me what those 2 are about? Illic's one of the few things from the update that's potentially interesting for me as a Dark Eldar player looking for Allied support.

Voidbringer is his special sniper rifle and Walker of the hidden path allows Illic to infiltrate without having to care about enemy proximity AND let's him deep strike in a unit of pathfinders next to him IIRC

Thanks, sounds neat.

Iracundus wrote:
Looking over the Codex, I see GW really messed up big time with the Wraithknight. It is in desperate need of a FAQ as otherwise it can only fire 2 weapons, rendering all those model pictures and artwork showing it with 4 guns to be completely useless.

It's not completely useless as it gives you more options. It might be a pricey option but it's not a "big gaping hole in the rules of the star of their new release" though.

 Minx wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
Looking over the Codex, I see GW really messed up big time with the Wraithknight. It is in desperate need of a FAQ as otherwise it can only fire 2 weapons, rendering all those model pictures and artwork showing it with 4 guns to be completely useless.

It's not completely useless as it gives you more options. It might be a pricey option but it's not a "big gaping hole in the rules of the star of their new release" though.

Of course it's a gaping hole.

If you put a scatter laser on a 2 Heavy Wraithcannon loadout for example, you can either fire both Wraithcannons and score on average 4/3 or 1.33 hits with them. If you fire a scatter laser and a wraithcannon, you will score on average 8/3 or 2.66 hits with the scatter laser and twin link 1 wraithcannon which will then score 0.9 hits. If you are firing at infantry targets, the wraithcannon is overkill. If you want to hit heavily armored targets or monstrous creatures, you'd do better firing both wraithcannons to get the higher number of hits, in which case you are wasting points on a scatter laser that is not being used. You pay for the option of being worse. And if it is just 2 shoulder weapons you are aiming to fire, there are far cheaper ways to get 2 heavy weapons.

As it is I see 2 viable loadouts: Suncannon + shield and 1 scatter laser, or the basic 2 heavy wraithcannons.

 Vaktathi wrote:
I was very surprised he was the one chosen to re-do Eldar, they usually don't have the same person update their own book.

So was I.

Especially as I seem to recall some interview or blog post or forum post some time back where people bugged Phil Kelly about the Eldar Codex and he flat-out denied it, saying something along the lines of "I don't want to be the "Eldar-Guy"".

May have all been made up though and I cannot recover the actual source.

Maybe it's like last time, where he wrote it and then someone else re-wrote it without his knowledge?

As much as I love a good rehash where a couple of units get boosted and some troubled units still get left on the shelf... i'm a tad more concerned that Mat Ward has written the upcoming fluff book for Iyanden.

 Morachi wrote:
As much as I love a good rehash where a couple of units get boosted and some troubled units still get left on the shelf... i'm a tad more concerned that Mat Ward has written the upcoming fluff book for Iyanden.

Everything's better than Phail Kelly.

Where is the information that Matt Ward is doing the Iyanden book? The ad for Iyanden supplement doesn't list author

If you download the sample on the iPad, the second last page lists Mat Ward as the author. Consider me horrified.

Edit: Here, made life easier for you...

That means there will almost certainly be an Eldar character that is made into fluff Mary Sue.

Indeed, however, the extra rules are only for Planet Strike and City Fight... I don't think we will see any extras so to speak.

 Morachi wrote:
Indeed, however, the extra rules are only for Planet Strike and City Fight... I don't think we will see any extras so to speak.

I'm not referring to the rules but just the fluff background. Ward seems to have this issue of repeatedly trying to create Mary Sue characters with at best minor cosmetic flaws. Draigo is the worst offender. His latest one was Imotekh.

I understand, was more just an fyi etc regarding what was in it. Can't wait for the after invasion tea party with Hive Fleet Kraken.

I am hoping GW will remember their old Iyanden characters of Farseer Kelmon and Warlock Karhedron. I'm still annoyed that the latest Tyranid Codex retconned the Avatar to be an idiot and Kelmon to have died to Kraken, all just to elevate Yriel.

 Morachi wrote:
Indeed, however, the extra rules are only for Planet Strike and City Fight... I don't think we will see any extras so to speak.

Under the Phoenix Rising section it does say " alterations and additions to the rules given in Codex:Eldar". So I'm expecting at least a few extra rules to make a more Iyanden themed list. At least the ability to put warlocks with wraith units would be nice.

 airmang wrote:

 Morachi wrote:
Indeed, however, the extra rules are only for Planet Strike and City Fight... I don't think we will see any extras so to speak.

Under the Phoenix Rising section it does say " alterations and additions to the rules given in Codex:Eldar". So I'm expecting at least a few extra rules to make a more Iyanden themed list. At least the ability to put warlocks with wraith units would be nice.

Good catch on that one, I had glanced over it - missed that bit completely... now I don't know if I should be happy or sad O_o

Iracundus wrote:
I am hoping GW will remember their old Iyanden characters of Farseer Kelmon and Warlock Karhedron. I'm still annoyed that the latest Tyranid Codex retconned the Avatar to be an idiot and Kelmon to have died to Kraken, all just to elevate Yriel.

Talking about IC in other codexes, wasn't Illic in the necron codex?

M.

Looking at the pricing on the various GW sites from different countries, it does indeed seem GW are raising the prices in the US to match Australia. We wanted more balanced pricing, we were just hoping Australia would come down rather than the US going up. :( There's really no point in ordering any of the new Eldar from the US if you happen to be in Oz.

 Miguelsan wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
I am hoping GW will remember their old Iyanden characters of Farseer Kelmon and Warlock Karhedron. I'm still annoyed that the latest Tyranid Codex retconned the Avatar to be an idiot and Kelmon to have died to Kraken, all just to elevate Yriel.

Talking about IC in other codexes, wasn't Illic in the necron codex?

M.

Yes, but he's from Alaitoc, not Iyanden. He was also just a bumbling sidekick for the SM character to rescue from the Necron tomb after he got knocked out, then later when he and the equally bumbling Alaitoc Farseer Eldorath Starbane (who has already lost a hand to Ward's Necron Sue Imotekh) attempt to save an Exodite world, they both fail. And since this failure occurs at 999.M41, this means Illic ends the millenium as a failure.

Just got my Codex.

Very happy with the fluff content as it delves much deeper into the Eldar history than most other books.

As a first time Eldar player, I quite like the rules and I can't wait to test some of the stuff out.

Iracundus wrote:

 Shandara wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
Looking over the Codex, I see GW really messed up big time with the Wraithknight. It is in desperate need of a FAQ as otherwise it can only fire 2 weapons, rendering all those model pictures and artwork showing it with 4 guns to be completely useless.

As it is, it comes standard with 2 heavy wraithcannons. Pre-FAQ, the realistic choices are to either leave it as is, or the only other viable options are "suncannon + shield" + shoulder scatter laser (to twin link the suncannon). Ghostglaive + shield is pointless as the ghostglaive's effects are half wasted since Wraithknight is at max Strength already. However that means it is left with just 2 shoulder weapon mounts as ranged weapons. The shield can only be taken as those 2 combinations so there aren't many choices at all. A ghostglaive armed Wraithknight could jump into close combat (since it is Jump Monstrous Creature) but still seems overpriced considering its WS.

Remember they haven't FAQ'ed Tzeentch chariots into usefulness yet (unless you consider stationary chariots with short-range weaponry useful). I wouldn't hold out for a quick fix.

I wonder if GW is even aware of this big gaping hole in the rules of the star of their new release. Maybe people should notify them.

You do realize that the smaller version the wraithlord can have 4 weapons. Two arm mounted and two shoulder right? He can't fire both catapults/flamers AND his shoulder weapons either. It makes perfect sense the way it is, the WK has an awesome CC profile and a jump pack, hes not supposed to outgun a riptide on top of it.

 Morachi wrote:
If you download the sample on the iPad, the second last page lists Mat Ward as the author.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Iracundus wrote:

 Shandara wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
Looking over the Codex, I see GW really messed up big time with the Wraithknight. It is in desperate need of a FAQ as otherwise it can only fire 2 weapons, rendering all those model pictures and artwork showing it with 4 guns to be completely useless.

As it is, it comes standard with 2 heavy wraithcannons. Pre-FAQ, the realistic choices are to either leave it as is, or the only other viable options are "suncannon + shield" + shoulder scatter laser (to twin link the suncannon). Ghostglaive + shield is pointless as the ghostglaive's effects are half wasted since Wraithknight is at max Strength already. However that means it is left with just 2 shoulder weapon mounts as ranged weapons. The shield can only be taken as those 2 combinations so there aren't many choices at all. A ghostglaive armed Wraithknight could jump into close combat (since it is Jump Monstrous Creature) but still seems overpriced considering its WS.

Remember they haven't FAQ'ed Tzeentch chariots into usefulness yet (unless you consider stationary chariots with short-range weaponry useful). I wouldn't hold out for a quick fix.

I wonder if GW is even aware of this big gaping hole in the rules of the star of their new release. Maybe people should notify them.

You do realize that the smaller version the wraithlord can have 4 weapons. Two arm mounted and two shoulder right? He can't fire both catapults/flamers AND his shoulder weapons either. It makes perfect sense the way it is, the WK has an awesome CC profile and a jump pack, hes not supposed to outgun a riptide on top of it.

The Wraithlord is stuck with those as standard and presumably already embedded in the base cost though yes that is still not optimal. However the Wraithknight is forced to pay additional points for useless weapons. That is another thing and further renders the choices useless.

Iracundus wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Iracundus wrote:

 Shandara wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
Looking over the Codex, I see GW really messed up big time with the Wraithknight. It is in desperate need of a FAQ as otherwise it can only fire 2 weapons, rendering all those model pictures and artwork showing it with 4 guns to be completely useless.

As it is, it comes standard with 2 heavy wraithcannons. Pre-FAQ, the realistic choices are to either leave it as is, or the only other viable options are "suncannon + shield" + shoulder scatter laser (to twin link the suncannon). Ghostglaive + shield is pointless as the ghostglaive's effects are half wasted since Wraithknight is at max Strength already. However that means it is left with just 2 shoulder weapon mounts as ranged weapons. The shield can only be taken as those 2 combinations so there aren't many choices at all. A ghostglaive armed Wraithknight could jump into close combat (since it is Jump Monstrous Creature) but still seems overpriced considering its WS.

Remember they haven't FAQ'ed Tzeentch chariots into usefulness yet (unless you consider stationary chariots with short-range weaponry useful). I wouldn't hold out for a quick fix.

I wonder if GW is even aware of this big gaping hole in the rules of the star of their new release. Maybe people should notify them.

You do realize that the smaller version the wraithlord can have 4 weapons. Two arm mounted and two shoulder right? He can't fire both catapults/flamers AND his shoulder weapons either. It makes perfect sense the way it is, the WK has an awesome CC profile and a jump pack, hes not supposed to outgun a riptide on top of it.

The Wraithlord is stuck with those as standard and presumably already embedded in the base cost though yes that is still not optimal. However the Wraithknight is forced to pay additional points for useless weapons. That is another thing and further renders the choices useless.

Ummmm.... the shoulder guns are optional on the WK

 Red Corsair wrote:

Iracundus wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Iracundus wrote:

 Shandara wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
Looking over the Codex, I see GW really messed up big time with the Wraithknight. It is in desperate need of a FAQ as otherwise it can only fire 2 weapons, rendering all those model pictures and artwork showing it with 4 guns to be completely useless.

As it is, it comes standard with 2 heavy wraithcannons. Pre-FAQ, the realistic choices are to either leave it as is, or the only other viable options are "suncannon + shield" + shoulder scatter laser (to twin link the suncannon). Ghostglaive + shield is pointless as the ghostglaive's effects are half wasted since Wraithknight is at max Strength already. However that means it is left with just 2 shoulder weapon mounts as ranged weapons. The shield can only be taken as those 2 combinations so there aren't many choices at all. A ghostglaive armed Wraithknight could jump into close combat (since it is Jump Monstrous Creature) but still seems overpriced considering its WS.

Remember they haven't FAQ'ed Tzeentch chariots into usefulness yet (unless you consider stationary chariots with short-range weaponry useful). I wouldn't hold out for a quick fix.

I wonder if GW is even aware of this big gaping hole in the rules of the star of their new release. Maybe people should notify them.

You do realize that the smaller version the wraithlord can have 4 weapons. Two arm mounted and two shoulder right? He can't fire both catapults/flamers AND his shoulder weapons either. It makes perfect sense the way it is, the WK has an awesome CC profile and a jump pack, hes not supposed to outgun a riptide on top of it.

The Wraithlord is stuck with those as standard and presumably already embedded in the base cost though yes that is still not optimal. However the Wraithknight is forced to pay additional points for useless weapons. That is another thing and further renders the choices useless.

Ummmm.... the shoulder guns are optional on the WK

And nobody has ever said they are not, but GW has not given any reason to take them beyond at most a scatter laser to take advantage of the Laser Lock rule since the limitations on the Wraithknight prevent it from using more than 2 weapons. Paying more points for weapons that cannot be used is what makes no sense and what renders those options pointless.

Iracundus wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Iracundus wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Iracundus wrote:

 Shandara wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
Looking over the Codex, I see GW really messed up big time with the Wraithknight. It is in desperate need of a FAQ as otherwise it can only fire 2 weapons, rendering all those model pictures and artwork showing it with 4 guns to be completely useless.

As it is, it comes standard with 2 heavy wraithcannons. Pre-FAQ, the realistic choices are to either leave it as is, or the only other viable options are "suncannon + shield" + shoulder scatter laser (to twin link the suncannon). Ghostglaive + shield is pointless as the ghostglaive's effects are half wasted since Wraithknight is at max Strength already. However that means it is left with just 2 shoulder weapon mounts as ranged weapons. The shield can only be taken as those 2 combinations so there aren't many choices at all. A ghostglaive armed Wraithknight could jump into close combat (since it is Jump Monstrous Creature) but still seems overpriced considering its WS.

Remember they haven't FAQ'ed Tzeentch chariots into usefulness yet (unless you consider stationary chariots with short-range weaponry useful). I wouldn't hold out for a quick fix.

I wonder if GW is even aware of this big gaping hole in the rules of the star of their new release. Maybe people should notify them.

You do realize that the smaller version the wraithlord can have 4 weapons. Two arm mounted and two shoulder right? He can't fire both catapults/flamers AND his shoulder weapons either. It makes perfect sense the way it is, the WK has an awesome CC profile and a jump pack, hes not supposed to outgun a riptide on top of it.

The Wraithlord is stuck with those as standard and presumably already embedded in the base cost though yes that is still not optimal. However the Wraithknight is forced to pay additional points for useless weapons. That is another thing and further renders the choices useless.

Ummmm.... the shoulder guns are optional on the WK

And nobody has ever said they are not, but GW has not given any reason to take them beyond at most a scatter laser to take advantage of the Laser Lock rule since the limitations on the Wraithknight prevent it from using more than 2 weapons. Paying more points for weapons that cannot be used is what makes no sense and what renders those options pointless.

This is a silly argument, I can buy more guns then I can fire with a riptide as well. The only reason why anyone made any such claim that he should fire more then two weapons is because of the laser lock rule. Had they not included that rule on SL then the whole argument never would have occurred. People keep assuming that all load outs that can be taken as options on things MUST be useful. This has historically been false, welcome to 4ok

Why shouldn't I assume that my WL should be able to fire his Scatter Laser then his shuriken catapults and shuriken canon all twin linked? After all it's an optional load out for him and it synergizes well...

 Red Corsair wrote:

Iracundus wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Iracundus wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Iracundus wrote:

 Shandara wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
Looking over the Codex, I see GW really messed up big time with the Wraithknight. It is in desperate need of a FAQ as otherwise it can only fire 2 weapons, rendering all those model pictures and artwork showing it with 4 guns to be completely useless.

As it is, it comes standard with 2 heavy wraithcannons. Pre-FAQ, the realistic choices are to either leave it as is, or the only other viable options are "suncannon + shield" + shoulder scatter laser (to twin link the suncannon). Ghostglaive + shield is pointless as the ghostglaive's effects are half wasted since Wraithknight is at max Strength already. However that means it is left with just 2 shoulder weapon mounts as ranged weapons. The shield can only be taken as those 2 combinations so there aren't many choices at all. A ghostglaive armed Wraithknight could jump into close combat (since it is Jump Monstrous Creature) but still seems overpriced considering its WS.

Remember they haven't FAQ'ed Tzeentch chariots into usefulness yet (unless you consider stationary chariots with short-range weaponry useful). I wouldn't hold out for a quick fix.

I wonder if GW is even aware of this big gaping hole in the rules of the star of their new release. Maybe people should notify them.

You do realize that the smaller version the wraithlord can have 4 weapons. Two arm mounted and two shoulder right? He can't fire both catapults/flamers AND his shoulder weapons either. It makes perfect sense the way it is, the WK has an awesome CC profile and a jump pack, hes not supposed to outgun a riptide on top of it.

The Wraithlord is stuck with those as standard and presumably already embedded in the base cost though yes that is still not optimal. However the Wraithknight is forced to pay additional points for useless weapons. That is another thing and further renders the choices useless.

Ummmm.... the shoulder guns are optional on the WK

And nobody has ever said they are not, but GW has not given any reason to take them beyond at most a scatter laser to take advantage of the Laser Lock rule since the limitations on the Wraithknight prevent it from using more than 2 weapons. Paying more points for weapons that cannot be used is what makes no sense and what renders those options pointless.

This is a silly argument, I can buy more guns then I can fire with a riptide as well. The only reason why anyone made any such claim that he should fire more then two weapons is because of the laser lock rule. Had they not included that rule on SL then the whole argument never would have occurred. People keep assuming that all load outs that can be taken as options on things MUST be useful. This has historically been false, welcome to 4ok

Why shouldn't I assume that my WL should be able to fire his Scatter Laser then his shuriken catapults and shuriken canon all twin linked? After all it's an optional load out for him and it synergizes well...

And as I already examined above, there is no circumstance in which one would want to use the shoulder weapons aside from the Laser Lock rule. If it is just to fire 2 shoulder weapons, there are far easier ways to get those 2 heavy weapons. If it is armed with dual heavy wraithcannons, then they serve no purpose other than eating up points. If you mount the suncannon, then there is just the scatter laser for synergy or starcannon if one is absolutely desperate for a few more AP 2 shots. Even if the Laser Lock rule did not exist, there would be little point to fitting shoulder weapons unless one were absolutely desperate for that one extra heavy weapon. There are cheaper options for heavy weapons elsewhere.

It is poor game design to offer options that have little incentive to take them. If something is of poor utility, they should be cheap. If something is of high utility it should be expensive. Having poor utility options at high cost is a good way to ensure they don't get used. For a new release large model meant to be the visual centrepiece of an army, that is poor meshing of rules design with model, and hence also poor marketing towards those that want something useful in game. If it had the ability to fire those extra weapons then they might be worth taking but as it is they are not. Opportunity cost is still something to factor in.

I think the real thing that's bugging us Eldar players are the fct that it sometimes is usefull to lay down a twin flamer instead of a BL/EML salvo. And it's a pair of "free" weapons.

The Wraith knight lets us upgrade with some standard heavy weapons that simply doesn't outshine the standard loud out and can't boost anything.
It's simply a stupid idea to have them there. If the model didn't have them and the option wasn't there then no one would care. But having the options there's just plain silly

 Red Corsair wrote:

This is a silly argument, I can buy more guns then I can fire with a riptide as well.

Really? How?

Iracundus wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Iracundus wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Iracundus wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Iracundus wrote:

 Shandara wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
Looking over the Codex, I see GW really messed up big time with the Wraithknight. It is in desperate need of a FAQ as otherwise it can only fire 2 weapons, rendering all those model pictures and artwork showing it with 4 guns to be completely useless.

As it is, it comes standard with 2 heavy wraithcannons. Pre-FAQ, the realistic choices are to either leave it as is, or the only other viable options are "suncannon + shield" + shoulder scatter laser (to twin link the suncannon). Ghostglaive + shield is pointless as the ghostglaive's effects are half wasted since Wraithknight is at max Strength already. However that means it is left with just 2 shoulder weapon mounts as ranged weapons. The shield can only be taken as those 2 combinations so there aren't many choices at all. A ghostglaive armed Wraithknight could jump into close combat (since it is Jump Monstrous Creature) but still seems overpriced considering its WS.

Remember they haven't FAQ'ed Tzeentch chariots into usefulness yet (unless you consider stationary chariots with short-range weaponry useful). I wouldn't hold out for a quick fix.

I wonder if GW is even aware of this big gaping hole in the rules of the star of their new release. Maybe people should notify them.

You do realize that the smaller version the wraithlord can have 4 weapons. Two arm mounted and two shoulder right? He can't fire both catapults/flamers AND his shoulder weapons either. It makes perfect sense the way it is, the WK has an awesome CC profile and a jump pack, hes not supposed to outgun a riptide on top of it.

The Wraithlord is stuck with those as standard and presumably already embedded in the base cost though yes that is still not optimal. However the Wraithknight is forced to pay additional points for useless weapons. That is another thing and further renders the choices useless.

Ummmm.... the shoulder guns are optional on the WK

And nobody has ever said they are not, but GW has not given any reason to take them beyond at most a scatter laser to take advantage of the Laser Lock rule since the limitations on the Wraithknight prevent it from using more than 2 weapons. Paying more points for weapons that cannot be used is what makes no sense and what renders those options pointless.

This is a silly argument, I can buy more guns then I can fire with a riptide as well. The only reason why anyone made any such claim that he should fire more then two weapons is because of the laser lock rule. Had they not included that rule on SL then the whole argument never would have occurred. People keep assuming that all load outs that can be taken as options on things MUST be useful. This has historically been false, welcome to 4ok

Why shouldn't I assume that my WL should be able to fire his Scatter Laser then his shuriken catapults and shuriken canon all twin linked? After all it's an optional load out for him and it synergizes well...

And as I already examined above, there is no circumstance in which one would want to use the shoulder weapons aside from the Laser Lock rule. If it is just to fire 2 shoulder weapons, there are far easier ways to get those 2 heavy weapons. If it is armed with dual heavy wraithcannons, then they serve no purpose other than eating up points. If you mount the suncannon, then there is just the scatter laser for synergy or starcannon if one is absolutely desperate for a few more AP 2 shots. Even if the Laser Lock rule did not exist, there would be little point to fitting shoulder weapons unless one were absolutely desperate for that one extra heavy weapon. There are cheaper options for heavy weapons elsewhere.

It is poor game design to offer options that have little incentive to take them. If something is of poor utility, they should be cheap. If something is of high utility it should be expensive. Having poor utility options at high cost is a good way to ensure they don't get used. For a new release large model meant to be the visual centrepiece of an army, that is poor meshing of rules design with model, and hence also poor marketing towards those that want something useful in game.

Last I checked it is way better to fire 8 s6 shots on overwatch then it is to fire nothing if armed with a suncanon.There you go, thats a scenario where they are useful outside your narrow scope. Or the fact that it can now use them on a flier when it otherwise would have no impact.... oh look another reason....

Whether or not there are other ways to get scatter lasers is not relevant, it's more cost efficient to arm heavy weapons on vypers instead of tanks, yet they both have the option because they fulfill wildly different rolls.

People on here just literally want every unit entry to be the best at everything, it's ridiculous.

Look at that things stats and weapons and now compare its price tag to a carnifex and then lets hear you continue to bitch.

It wasn't a mistake, get over it and move on.

 Absolutionis wrote:

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
yeah, and ridiculouse T8..., seriously even a Nurgle GUO does'nt have a T higher then 6...and its a freakin Mountain of flesh.

But eldars put some sticks and barrels togheter and oh look a T8 creature!....

This has been discussed a million times.

The best example someone put forth (I forget who) is that a lampost is thinner than an elephant, but if you have a gun the elephant will stop elephanting before the lamppost stops lamposting. The point is that the Wraithlord is essentially as tough as a vehicle.

Now imagine the elephant has no concept of pain, and the lamppost is made from the same material that a high-tech society makes their main battle tanks out of. Lamppost wins even more.

so what you are telling me is that the wraithknight looks cool, but had bad rules, and that I should convert mine to be a desk lamp and leave it at home when i got to tournaments.

The option to get scatter lasers on other platforms is intensely relevant as those are the direct competition for any mounting of shoulder weapons on a Wraithknight, if we disregard the Laser Lock rule for the moment. Unless one is desperate for more heavy weapons to be fielded at any price, there are more efficient ways to do so, and just because it is possible to do something doesn't make it a good idea nor not a game design mistake. For something to be a viable choice, it has to offer enough cost vs. benefit. I hope you are not seriously suggesting taking 2 scatter lasers just on the possibility of score 8/6 hits on Overwatch as a reason to pay points to field 2 shoulder mount scatter lasers on a Wraithknight. Again if the goal was to spray and pray lasers at flyers, there are other platforms that can do equally well, without the forgone opportunity cost of giving up an arm weapon's firing, which if it is a suncannon has also cost points.

 Enigma wrote:
I think the real thing that's bugging us Eldar players are the fct that it sometimes is usefull to lay down a twin flamer instead of a BL/EML salvo. And it's a pair of "free" weapons.

The Wraith knight lets us upgrade with some standard heavy weapons that simply doesn't outshine the standard loud out and can't boost anything.
It's simply a stupid idea to have them there. If the model didn't have them and the option wasn't there then no one would care. But having the options there's just plain silly

Either take the standard load out for 240 pts which is 2 heavy wraithcannons
or
switch them out for a suncannon and scattershield, you can then add a scatterlaser for laserlock
or
switch them out for a ghostglaive and scattershield, you can take 2 heavy weapon options to shoot until you get into cc

Those are 3 different loadouts, you'll notice the option for 2 shoulder mounted weapons is so that the cc WK which would otherwise only have a sword and shield will also be able to shoot.

I don't think people are understanding that last part, the only reason there are 2 options for shoulder mounted weapons is so that the cc WK can shoot, if you are taking 2 heavy wraithcannons there is no point in taking shoulder mounted weapons.
The option is there for the 3rd cc loadout or to give the 2nd loadout the ability to twin-link it's 1 gun.

Just because you can take 4 ranged weapons doesn't mean you should, the tyranid codex has the hive tyrant, harpy, carnifex and tyrannofex who can all take more than 2 weapons and won't be able to use all 3 as they are MC.

 Autarch Fiallathandirel wrote:

 Enigma wrote:
I think the real thing that's bugging us Eldar players are the fct that it sometimes is usefull to lay down a twin flamer instead of a BL/EML salvo. And it's a pair of "free" weapons.

The Wraith knight lets us upgrade with some standard heavy weapons that simply doesn't outshine the standard loud out and can't boost anything.
It's simply a stupid idea to have them there. If the model didn't have them and the option wasn't there then no one would care. But having the options there's just plain silly

Either take the standard load out for 240 pts which is 2 heavy wraithcannons
or
switch them out for a suncannon and scattershield, you can then add a scatterlaser for laserlock
or
switch them out for a ghostglaive and scattershield, you can take 2 heavy weapon options to shoot until you get into cc

Those are 3 different loadouts, you'll notice the option for 2 shoulder mounted weapons is so that the cc WK which would otherwise only have a sword and shield will also be able to shoot.

I don't think people are understanding that last part, the only reason there are 2 options for shoulder mounted weapons is so that the cc WK can shoot, if you are taking 2 heavy wraithcannons there is no point in taking shoulder mounted weapons.
The option is there for the 3rd cc loadout or to give the 2nd loadout the ability to twin-link it's 1 gun.

Problem is there are both model pictures and artwork in the Codex depicting the 2 arm gun and 2 shoulder mount loadout. And the rules for the ghostglaive were obviously written with the new Wraithlord in mine and not so much the Wraithknight since it is already at maximum Strength.

 Autarch Fiallathandirel wrote:

 Enigma wrote:
I think the real thing that's bugging us Eldar players are the fct that it sometimes is usefull to lay down a twin flamer instead of a BL/EML salvo. And it's a pair of "free" weapons.

The Wraith knight lets us upgrade with some standard heavy weapons that simply doesn't outshine the standard loud out and can't boost anything.
It's simply a stupid idea to have them there. If the model didn't have them and the option wasn't there then no one would care. But having the options there's just plain silly

Either take the standard load out for 240 pts which is 2 heavy wraithcannons
or
switch them out for a suncannon and scattershield, you can then add a scatterlaser for laserlock
or
switch them out for a ghostglaive and scattershield, you can take 2 heavy weapon options to shoot until you get into cc

Those are 3 different loadouts, you'll notice the option for 2 shoulder mounted weapons is so that the cc WK which would otherwise only have a sword and shield will also be able to shoot.

I don't think people are understanding that last part, the only reason there are 2 options for shoulder mounted weapons is so that the cc WK can shoot, if you are taking 2 heavy wraithcannons there is no point in taking shoulder mounted weapons.
The option is there for the 3rd cc loadout or to give the 2nd loadout the ability to twin-link it's 1 gun.

That being said, the sword is kind of dumb for something that's already at max strength. All it gives is one reroll per turn. Really weak.

Iracundus wrote:


Problem is there are both model pictures and artwork in the Codex depicting the 2 arm gun and 2 shoulder mount loadout. And the rules for the ghostglaive were obviously written with the new Wraithlord in mine and not so much the Wraithknight since it is already at maximum Strength.

That was just GW trying to sell a model (look at how many guns it can take!), it will entice people to buy it. Fair enough that the ghostglaive benefits the wraithlord more but for people who want a cc orientated WK at least they can have some shooting too.

shade1313 wrote:


That being said, the sword is kind of dumb for something that's already at max strength. All it gives is one reroll per turn. Really weak.

Well as I said some people may want a cc WK, the reason there are so many options for the WK are because it can take 3 different loadouts and depending on them it can fire 1 or both of it's shoulder mounted weapons every turn. I don't see how more loadout options is a bad thing. See my previous post about tyranid MC with more guns than they can shoot if they take everything is nothing new.

I wonder how hard it would be to shoulder / back mount a starcannon, then have a scatterlaser on the other shoulder (or hooked up to the starcannon) so it can have a sword (cometically) and shield, with the cannon

Iracundus wrote:
The option to get scatter lasers on other platforms is intensely relevant as those are the direct competition for any mounting of shoulder weapons on a Wraithknight, if we disregard the Laser Lock rule for the moment. Unless one is desperate for more heavy weapons to be fielded at any price, there are more efficient ways to do so, and just because it is possible to do something doesn't make it a good idea nor not a game design mistake. For something to be a viable choice, it has to offer enough cost vs. benefit. I hope you are not seriously suggesting taking 2 scatter lasers just on the possibility of score 8/6 hits on Overwatch as a reason to field 2 shoulder mount scatter lasers on a Wraithknight. Again if the goal was to spray and pray lasers at flyers, there are other platforms that can do equally well, without the forgone opportunity cost of giving up an arm weapon's firing, which if it is a suncannon has also cost points.

Way to move the goal post. The original argument has been about why GW would allow you to take 4 weapons on a MC. Efficiency has NOTHING to do with that. Again you are assuming that GW should some how force efficient list building by restricting options? That's almost as idiotic as your argument in the first place. Their are reasons why it should have the option to take shoulder weapons, good or not they exist. If I want to field one with sword and board, bam 2 shoulder guns. Sun canon and shield, hey look a flier, bam, shoulder guns. Are there better ways to spend points? Probably, but that has nothing to do with original claim that they made a mistake. Perhaps the mistake is when some bad gamer shows up with 4 weapons because he doesn't know the rules well.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
The option to get scatter lasers on other platforms is intensely relevant as those are the direct competition for any mounting of shoulder weapons on a Wraithknight, if we disregard the Laser Lock rule for the moment. Unless one is desperate for more heavy weapons to be fielded at any price, there are more efficient ways to do so, and just because it is possible to do something doesn't make it a good idea nor not a game design mistake. For something to be a viable choice, it has to offer enough cost vs. benefit. I hope you are not seriously suggesting taking 2 scatter lasers just on the possibility of score 8/6 hits on Overwatch as a reason to field 2 shoulder mount scatter lasers on a Wraithknight. Again if the goal was to spray and pray lasers at flyers, there are other platforms that can do equally well, without the forgone opportunity cost of giving up an arm weapon's firing, which if it is a suncannon has also cost points.

Way to move the goal post. The original argument has been about why GW would allow you to take 4 weapons on a MC. Efficiency has NOTHING to do with that. Again you are assuming that GW should some how force efficient list building by restricting options? That's almost as idiotic as your argument in the first place. Their are reasons why it should have the option to take shoulder weapons, good or not they exist. If I want to field one with sword and board, bam 2 shoulder guns. Sun canon and shield, hey look a flier, bam, shoulder guns. Are there better ways to spend points? Probably, but that has nothing to do with original claim that they made a mistake. Perhaps the mistake is when some bad gamer shows up with 4 weapons because he doesn't know the rules well.

Efficiency has everything to do with why something might get taken or not taken. That is why obviously bad choices in a Codex become rarely seen. In 3rd edition Guardian jetbikes were a bad choice, and sure enough they vanished or became rare. Shining Spears were terrible and then they were improved, so they became slightly more common. Bright Lance Wraithlords under the old Codex and editions? Poor and overpriced option so became rarer. Wraithlords armed with 2 of the same weapon when it just resulted in twin linking? Also rarely seen. Sure there are some people that are going to willingly kneecap themselves but that doesn't make it any less of a bad choice, and when it comes to the Wraithknight it effectively removes most of the choices. It is possible to make up inefficient and downright illogical reasons to take something that might work if the planets align as evidenced by people taking fluff choices for an army even when those options were poor, but it doesn't excuse poor design decision on GW's part for making those options poor in the first place. Having a fluffy army and an army that is effective shouldn't at times be mutually contradictory.

That was precisely Gav Thorpe's failure in the 3rd edition Codex. He at some point afterwards said the assumption was that people as a whole would take a mix of the good and the bad units and end up with average performance Instead predictably enough, people loaded up on the good and didn't field the bad. So yes, efficiency has everything to do with how often something will appear in armies.

Poor utility options need to be cheaper. The shoulder mounts should be cheaper for the foregone opportunity cost in firing them if armed with an arm weapon. The ghostglaive and shield option is almost a downgrade considering its poor rules for a Wraithknight and of giving up the option for a ranged arm weapon. Can other things fill the heavy weapon role? Yes. Can other things mount the heavy wraithcannon or suncannon? No. There is an opportunity cost associated then with mounting the ghostglaive + shield option. When things are overpriced (including opportunity cost), then they will be rarer. Choices need to be competitive.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jacob29 wrote:
One of the exarch powers is FnP.

But nobody can buy it.

Fuegan has it. It's like how only the War Walker has the power field vehicle equipment and nothing else can buy it.

One of the exarch powers is FnP.

But nobody can buy it.

Jacob29 wrote:
One of the exarch powers is FnP.

But nobody can buy it.

It's only there because Fuegan has FnP

Hey guys quick question on Warlock Powers. Is it at the beginning of the game that you choose the blessing or the malediction or is it every time you role for the psychic test? Thanks!

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:

 megatrons2nd wrote:
The wraith fighter is fricken awesome. Move on from reserve, terrify the unit on the quad gun, then kill it.

You can't cast Blessings/Maledictions on the turn you arrive from reserves, unfortunately.

The FAQ allowed it, as they occur at the same time, the active player was allowed to choose.


Page seven of the rulebook FAQ, bottom left hand side. I would copy/paste, but my computer is doing weird stuff when I try it.

Shouldn't this thread be closed....the codex is out and there is lots going on in 40K discussion now, its hard to keep up with it all.

Iracundus wrote:
Looking over the Codex, I see GW really messed up big time with the Wraithknight. It is in desperate need of a FAQ as otherwise it can only fire 2 weapons, rendering all those model pictures and artwork showing it with 4 guns to be completely useless.

As it is, it comes standard with 2 heavy wraithcannons. Pre-FAQ, the realistic choices are to either leave it as is, or the only other viable options are "suncannon + shield" + shoulder scatter laser (to twin link the suncannon). Ghostglaive + shield is pointless as the ghostglaive's effects are half wasted since Wraithknight is at max Strength already. However that means it is left with just 2 shoulder weapon mounts as ranged weapons. The shield can only be taken as those 2 combinations so there aren't many choices at all. A ghostglaive armed Wraithknight could jump into close combat (since it is Jump Monstrous Creature) but still seems overpriced considering its WS.

Not really. It actually allows you to fire overwatch if you have a suncannon. Since the suncannon can't fire snapshots as a blast weapon. It also allows for more shots for overwatch from the one with 2 heavy wraith cannons. It is an additional survival mechanism, not meant as the main weapon.

Only problem is that the shoulder weapons are priced as main weapons.

 megatrons2nd wrote:

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:

 megatrons2nd wrote:
The wraith fighter is fricken awesome. Move on from reserve, terrify the unit on the quad gun, then kill it.

You can't cast Blessings/Maledictions on the turn you arrive from reserves, unfortunately.

The FAQ allowed it, as they occur at the same time, the active player was allowed to choose.


Page seven of the rulebook FAQ, bottom left hand side. I would copy/paste, but my computer is doing weird stuff when I try it.

Did you not read the rest of the posts? That FAQ has no bearing on the restriction on page 67.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
Only problem is that the shoulder weapons are priced as main weapons.

 megatrons2nd wrote:

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:

 megatrons2nd wrote:
The wraith fighter is fricken awesome. Move on from reserve, terrify the unit on the quad gun, then kill it.

You can't cast Blessings/Maledictions on the turn you arrive from reserves, unfortunately.

The FAQ allowed it, as they occur at the same time, the active player was allowed to choose.


Page seven of the rulebook FAQ, bottom left hand side. I would copy/paste, but my computer is doing weird stuff when I try it.

Did you not read the rest of the posts? That FAQ has no bearing on the restriction on page 67.

Good lord, how did I miss that one? Maybe because I usually don't use psychers. Thanks, maybe not so awesome, back to my list drawing board.

 megatrons2nd wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
Looking over the Codex, I see GW really messed up big time with the Wraithknight. It is in desperate need of a FAQ as otherwise it can only fire 2 weapons, rendering all those model pictures and artwork showing it with 4 guns to be completely useless.

As it is, it comes standard with 2 heavy wraithcannons. Pre-FAQ, the realistic choices are to either leave it as is, or the only other viable options are "suncannon + shield" + shoulder scatter laser (to twin link the suncannon). Ghostglaive + shield is pointless as the ghostglaive's effects are half wasted since Wraithknight is at max Strength already. However that means it is left with just 2 shoulder weapon mounts as ranged weapons. The shield can only be taken as those 2 combinations so there aren't many choices at all. A ghostglaive armed Wraithknight could jump into close combat (since it is Jump Monstrous Creature) but still seems overpriced considering its WS.

Not really. It actually allows you to fire overwatch if you have a suncannon. Since the suncannon can't fire snapshots as a blast weapon. It also allows for more shots for overwatch from the one with 2 heavy wraith cannons. It is an additional survival mechanism, not meant as the main weapon.

I agree completely. After all, when do you see giant mechs with multiple guns fire ALL those guns? Some people won't understand why it can take that many guns, but there are god, valid points. Contrary to your faulty belief Iracundus, those options were not a mistake on GW's part. Tau Battlesuit Commanders can take 4 weapons. Is that a mistake too? Or clear obvious rule design intending to create variation?

 megatrons2nd wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
Looking over the Codex, I see GW really messed up big time with the Wraithknight. It is in desperate need of a FAQ as otherwise it can only fire 2 weapons, rendering all those model pictures and artwork showing it with 4 guns to be completely useless.

As it is, it comes standard with 2 heavy wraithcannons. Pre-FAQ, the realistic choices are to either leave it as is, or the only other viable options are "suncannon + shield" + shoulder scatter laser (to twin link the suncannon). Ghostglaive + shield is pointless as the ghostglaive's effects are half wasted since Wraithknight is at max Strength already. However that means it is left with just 2 shoulder weapon mounts as ranged weapons. The shield can only be taken as those 2 combinations so there aren't many choices at all. A ghostglaive armed Wraithknight could jump into close combat (since it is Jump Monstrous Creature) but still seems overpriced considering its WS.

Not really. It actually allows you to fire overwatch if you have a suncannon. Since the suncannon can't fire snapshots as a blast weapon. It also allows for more shots for overwatch from the one with 2 heavy wraith cannons. It is an additional survival mechanism, not meant as the main weapon.

And again as I stated in above posts, the shoulder mount is priced inappropriately if the only realistic purpose people can give for it is to snap shot for those Wraithknight loadouts, because it is priced as the same as other heavy weapon choices. A hefty price to pay for 8/6 hits assuming two scatter laser mounts.

Tau Battlesuit Commanders can take 4 weapons. Is that a mistake too? Or clear obvious rule design intending to create variation?

Mistake, if those prices are not adjusted for opportunity cost. Also there is a key issue in that it allows for twin-linking if you select 2 of the same weapon system. There is thus a reasonable purpose if one wanted the main weapon system of the suit to be twin-linked.

GW is not some ineffable infallible entity with deep mysterious purposes behind everything. They have screwed up before.

The original comment was that having 4 weapon options was a mistake. No, that is not a mistake. Is the pricing off kilter? Yes, as it stands right now. But having 4 weapon options is not a mistake. This wasn't about point costs and "oppurtunity costs."
It is not in "desperate need of an faq." Stop making mountains out of mole hills.

All else aside, having the spirit stone twin in the WK able to fire those backup weapons (even at a reduced BS, if necessary) would have been a great way to tie in that bit of fluff.

Neronoxx wrote:
The original comment was that having 4 weapon options was a mistake. No, that is not a mistake. Is the pricing off kilter? Yes, as it stands right now. But having 4 weapon options is not a mistake. This wasn't about point costs and "oppurtunity costs."
It is not in "desperate need of an faq." Stop making mountains out of mole hills.

It is a mistake as they offer no reasonable additional function beyond the laser lock for anything other than the ghostglaive armed version, and even then at that kind of a cost, it would be up for debate. Opportunity costs do matter because if you ask people to give up a much more powerful and limited in supply arm weapon's shooting for a bog standard heavy weapon that is available on a variety of other options then there has to be a compensating reason. Without the ability to fire all the weapons, having 4 weapons at full price is a mistake since having more than one does not make them twin-linked (unlike the Tau commander suit options). Paying full price for the sole reason of snap shots is ridiculously overpriced as well and if that is the sole reason then it is still a mistake in design to expect people to pay and mount weapons for that reason.

These are not integral weapons like on a Wraithlord or Riptide. These are additional weapons that GW is asking players pay full undiscounted point cost for. The result is likely to be the same as whenever GW has made weak illogical options: these options dwindle in frequency. Just like the old Codex version of the Wraithlord with "twin-linked Bright Lance" costing as much as 2 Bright Lances.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Iracundus wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Iracundus wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Iracundus wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Iracundus wrote:

 Shandara wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
Looking over the Codex, I see GW really messed up big time with the Wraithknight. It is in desperate need of a FAQ as otherwise it can only fire 2 weapons, rendering all those model pictures and artwork showing it with 4 guns to be completely useless.

As it is, it comes standard with 2 heavy wraithcannons. Pre-FAQ, the realistic choices are to either leave it as is, or the only other viable options are "suncannon + shield" + shoulder scatter laser (to twin link the suncannon). Ghostglaive + shield is pointless as the ghostglaive's effects are half wasted since Wraithknight is at max Strength already. However that means it is left with just 2 shoulder weapon mounts as ranged weapons. The shield can only be taken as those 2 combinations so there aren't many choices at all. A ghostglaive armed Wraithknight could jump into close combat (since it is Jump Monstrous Creature) but still seems overpriced considering its WS.

Remember they haven't FAQ'ed Tzeentch chariots into usefulness yet (unless you consider stationary chariots with short-range weaponry useful). I wouldn't hold out for a quick fix.

I wonder if GW is even aware of this big gaping hole in the rules of the star of their new release. Maybe people should notify them.

You do realize that the smaller version the wraithlord can have 4 weapons. Two arm mounted and two shoulder right? He can't fire both catapults/flamers AND his shoulder weapons either. It makes perfect sense the way it is, the WK has an awesome CC profile and a jump pack, hes not supposed to outgun a riptide on top of it.

The Wraithlord is stuck with those as standard and presumably already embedded in the base cost though yes that is still not optimal. However the Wraithknight is forced to pay additional points for useless weapons. That is another thing and further renders the choices useless.

Ummmm.... the shoulder guns are optional on the WK

And nobody has ever said they are not, but GW has not given any reason to take them beyond at most a scatter laser to take advantage of the Laser Lock rule since the limitations on the Wraithknight prevent it from using more than 2 weapons. Paying more points for weapons that cannot be used is what makes no sense and what renders those options pointless.

This is a silly argument, I can buy more guns then I can fire with a riptide as well. The only reason why anyone made any such claim that he should fire more then two weapons is because of the laser lock rule. Had they not included that rule on SL then the whole argument never would have occurred. People keep assuming that all load outs that can be taken as options on things MUST be useful. This has historically been false, welcome to 4ok

Why shouldn't I assume that my WL should be able to fire his Scatter Laser then his shuriken catapults and shuriken canon all twin linked? After all it's an optional load out for him and it synergizes well...

And as I already examined above, there is no circumstance in which one would want to use the shoulder weapons aside from the Laser Lock rule. If it is just to fire 2 shoulder weapons, there are far easier ways to get those 2 heavy weapons. If it is armed with dual heavy wraithcannons, then they serve no purpose other than eating up points. If you mount the suncannon, then there is just the scatter laser for synergy or starcannon if one is absolutely desperate for a few more AP 2 shots. Even if the Laser Lock rule did not exist, there would be little point to fitting shoulder weapons unless one were absolutely desperate for that one extra heavy weapon. There are cheaper options for heavy weapons elsewhere.

It is poor game design to offer options that have little incentive to take them. If something is of poor utility, they should be cheap. If something is of high utility it should be expensive. Having poor utility options at high cost is a good way to ensure they don't get used. For a new release large model meant to be the visual centrepiece of an army, that is poor meshing of rules design with model, and hence also poor marketing towards those that want something useful in game.

Last I checked it is way better to fire 8 s6 shots on overwatch then it is to fire nothing if armed with a suncanon.There you go, thats a scenario where they are useful outside your narrow scope. Or the fact that it can now use them on a flier when it otherwise would have no impact.... oh look another reason....

Whether or not there are other ways to get scatter lasers is not relevant, it's more cost efficient to arm heavy weapons on vypers instead of tanks, yet they both have the option because they fulfill wildly different rolls.

People on here just literally want every unit entry to be the best at everything, it's ridiculous.

Look at that things stats and weapons and now compare its price tag to a carnifex and then lets hear you continue to bitch.

It wasn't a mistake, get over it and move on.

I hate pointless monster quotes

But I agree, the usefullness of this thread is reaching its end, with the official Eldar release today.

I haven't been able to get my codex yet, and I'm sorry if its been asked. What are the ranges on the heavy wraith cannons and the sun cannon?

I'm still curious as whether you can still boost fireprisms by crossing the beams...
And if rangers retain their marksman ability of getting AP 1 on to hit rolls of 6...

damn I want my codex to arrive -.-

Lock it up Mod?

 Enigma wrote:
I'm still curious as whether you can still boost fireprisms by crossing the beams...
And if rangers retain their marksman ability of getting AP 1 on to hit rolls of 6...

damn I want my codex to arrive -.-

No to both.

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:

 Enigma wrote:
I'm still curious as whether you can still boost fireprisms by crossing the beams...
And if rangers retain their marksman ability of getting AP 1 on to hit rolls of 6...

damn I want my codex to arrive -.-

No to both.

you've got to be kidding me... that was one of the few things that made the prisms special... and not just a railgun á la Eldar :(
And now I need a special character to get snipers that feel special... and those snipers are automaticaly alaitoc ones at that

/endwhine

 Enigma wrote:

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:

 Enigma wrote:
I'm still curious as whether you can still boost fireprisms by crossing the beams...
And if rangers retain their marksman ability of getting AP 1 on to hit rolls of 6...

damn I want my codex to arrive -.-

No to both.

you've got to be kidding me... that was one of the few things that made the prisms special... and not just a railgun á la Eldar :(
And now I need a special character to get snipers that feel special... and those snipers are automaticaly alaitoc ones at that

/endwhine

But the new fire prisms are still really good, they have ap3 large blast and s9 ap 1 lance mode (new mode), with a blast ap2 mode as well.

I am already thinking runnin 2 fire prisms.

 pizzaguardian wrote:

But the new fire prisms are still really good, they have ap3 large blast and s9 ap 1 lance mode (new mode), with a blast ap2 mode as well.

I am already thinking runnin 2 fire prisms.

How does that work?

Similar to Tau Ion-Weapon overcharge?

Yeah I know, I'm not whining about how good it is, I've really missed that it never had the lance rule before. I think it really should be THE long-range anti tank from Eldar... but removing the boost from other tanks just turns it back into an "ordinary" weapon. In the last codex it at least had something that distinguished it from other antitank-tanks like vanquisers or hammerheads...

I'm really just annoyed that they removed the thing that made it stand out

 Zweischneid wrote:

 pizzaguardian wrote:

But the new fire prisms are still really good, they have ap3 large blast and s9 ap 1 lance mode (new mode), with a blast ap2 mode as well.

I am already thinking runnin 2 fire prisms.

How does that work?

Similar to Tau Ion-Weapon overcharge?

No, it is like the krak/frag/flakk missile. You just have 3 firing modes and pick one. There are no drawbacks (well one is large blast, the other is blast and the last one is a single target lance)


@enigma i agree it was pretty unique. Although with the new shooting mode it is a bit redundant.

yeah, it didn't get worse, quite the opposite... but I miss the uniqueness

still, I'm really looking forward to use it as it is

Iracundus wrote:

 warpspider89 wrote:
Is anyone else disappointed that Shining Spears no longer have the option to take a shuriken catapult?

They do. They have Eldar Jetbikes and those are listed as having a twin linked catapult as standard.

Oops... I meant Shuriken Cannon....

I am disappointed that Shining Spears can no longer take Shuriken Cannons... now they don't have any ranged game.

Incase it hasn't been mentioned there is inconsistancies with images floating online and the physical codex. Sadly Doom does state "failed" to wound.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and Autaurch can take Swooping Hawk wings but if he joins them they can no longer skyleap and no longer are scatter free. Way to go GW on making that option pointless...

I agree that the Prism is a great Tank.
The new Falcon isn't so bad either when taken with a Scatter Laser and Shuriken Cannon.

So Warlocks are distributed before powers are selected: is this where we landed on this? Out of town for 3 weeks in a row here and can't really follow the thread closely.

If so, pretty lame. Only thing that really would have made Banshee's viable is the 3+" to run from the lock and exarch stacking, and I'm not even sure they do. Otherwise, I can't think of a single possible use for banshee's as is.

 BlueDagger wrote:
Incase it hasn't been mentioned there is inconsistancies with images floating online and the physical codex. Sadly Doom does state "failed" to wound.

The images are all of the reference page at the back, which as we all know paraphrases everything to make it fit.

 Dash2021 wrote:
So Warlocks are distributed before powers are selected: is this where we landed on this? Out of town for 3 weeks in a row here and can't really follow the thread closely.

If so, pretty lame. Only thing that really would have made Banshee's viable is the 3+" to run from the lock and exarch stacking, and I'm not even sure they do. Otherwise, I can't think of a single possible use for banshee's as is.

From what I understand warlocks are not distributed any more- they form their own unit and can't; join other units

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Dash2021 wrote:
So Warlocks are distributed before powers are selected: is this where we landed on this? Out of town for 3 weeks in a row here and can't really follow the thread closely.

If so, pretty lame. Only thing that really would have made Banshee's viable is the 3+" to run from the lock and exarch stacking, and I'm not even sure they do. Otherwise, I can't think of a single possible use for banshee's as is.

From what I understand warlocks are not distributed any more- they form their own unit and can't; join other units

You understand incorrectly. They're the equivalent of Wolf Guard or the Royal Court now.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Dash2021 wrote:
So Warlocks are distributed before powers are selected: is this where we landed on this? Out of town for 3 weeks in a row here and can't really follow the thread closely.

If so, pretty lame. Only thing that really would have made Banshee's viable is the 3+" to run from the lock and exarch stacking, and I'm not even sure they do. Otherwise, I can't think of a single possible use for banshee's as is.

From what I understand warlocks are not distributed any more- they form their own unit and can't; join other units

Incorrect. They can join Defender and Storm Guardians, Jetbikes and Support Weapon batteries.

 Dash2021 wrote:
So Warlocks are distributed before powers are selected: is this where we landed on this? Out of town for 3 weeks in a row here and can't really follow the thread closely.

If so, pretty lame. Only thing that really would have made Banshee's viable is the 3+" to run from the lock and exarch stacking, and I'm not even sure they do. Otherwise, I can't think of a single possible use for banshee's as is.

there isn't one.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Dash2021 wrote:
So Warlocks are distributed before powers are selected: is this where we landed on this? Out of town for 3 weeks in a row here and can't really follow the thread closely.

If so, pretty lame. Only thing that really would have made Banshee's viable is the 3+" to run from the lock and exarch stacking, and I'm not even sure they do. Otherwise, I can't think of a single possible use for banshee's as is.

there isn't one.

Nonsense.


















They're a handicap unit for when you're playing against young kids.

Sad panda. Just found the lock entry and noted they are indeed locked into guardian based units. Banshee's remain unpainted, unused and unloved in 6th. Not a giant Ward fan, but I guess we'll have to hope he makes the Biel'tan suplement as well so that they gain something that makes them useful. Till then they are just the poor cousins of quins and scorpions.

However, Scorpions are bananas now. I6 ap2 S8 claw? Yes please. If Kandras remains the beat stick he was in the last codex, I see this unit finding a home in some lists.

I'm still giddy at the fact Windriders can move 12", let rip then move up to 24" turbo boosting, whilst picking up a 3+ cover save. I had to go check the rules twice to be sure that was even legal.

Shining Spears just got very nasty as well with their boosted numbers. Warp Spiders are going to be all kinds of nasty for high T low I units in general (Tau Suits, Nid MC's, etc).

Rumors threads usually dont last this long after a codex release...

Agreed, codex is out, this thread should be closed...

Well, we still don't know exactly what's in the Iyanden book...

Speaking of Iyanden, and things in their theme, I note that the pilot for the Hemlock has a simplified Spiritseer helmet. It appears that it would fit in place of the new plastic Farseer's head. Could make a decent second Spiritseer to provide some variety beyond the Finecast SS, if you wanted to run two. Or if you just didn't want to use the Finecast one, I suppose.

 Enigma wrote:

Probably they made it use T instead of Armour as it's far too easy to wreck vehicles in this ed.... and then it wouldn't sell -.-

But I agree, the knight should probably fall under the vehicle category.

---<Edit>---
Yes, they are super heavy walkers... It feels as if we should get a new class of vehicle to represent these weird almost titans. like super-heavy light walker

There already is a class for super heavy walkers. They are called knights. They have been around in Epic nearly forever, this is just the first time we have seen them in official 40K scale rules.

IMO GW should have never adopted the AV vehicle armor system. If everything was Toughness and Wounds they would not have this weird dichotomy between MCs and vehicles that are functionally similar (Wraithlord and War Walker for example). All they needed to do was to extend the Strength and Toughness stats past 10. Compare the die rolls needed to penetrate with the die rolls need to wound:

AV14 = T11
AV13 = T10
AV12 = T9
AV11 = T8
AV10 = T7

Add 3 to Toughness to get AV or subtract three from AV to get equivalent Toughness
AV10 = T7

T

You'd also have to throw on some anti poison so your vehicles don't get poisoned to death.

Slayer222 wrote:
You'd also have to throw on some anti poison so your vehicles don't get poisoned to death.

"All 'vehicle class' targets are immune to poison."

If you wanted to keep the glance mechanism:
"Any result one less than the die result needed to wound causes a glance on 'vehicle class' targets."

Does anyone by chance have a comparison shot of the knight next to the other eldar titans?

Fun fact:
GW goes a step further than Mantic and puts the pic of a broken miniature on their display box (thanks to cpl_hicks over at Warseer for finding this):

Well that's embarrassing.

They had been putting on crooked lightning claw pics on sternguard upgrade pack for months now.

Neither unexpected nor diassapointed.

Isn't there still an upside-down heavy bolter on one of the Leman Russ kits too?

There's also:


Notice how straight the fourth laser lance is... Resin at its best.

 Morachi wrote:
I'm still giddy at the fact Windriders can move 12", let rip then move up to 24" turbo boosting, whilst picking up a 3+ cover save. I had to go check the rules twice to be sure that was even legal.

Shining Spears just got very nasty as well with their boosted numbers. Warp Spiders are going to be all kinds of nasty for high T low I units in general (Tau Suits, Nid MC's, etc).

I thought battle focus specifically stated "Run". Does it also state Turbo Boosting?

 Shandara wrote:
There's also:


Notice how straight the fourth laser lance is... Resin at its best.

Just a different angle. Others from top, that one from side. Step back from the ledge...

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

 Morachi wrote:
I'm still giddy at the fact Windriders can move 12", let rip then move up to 24" turbo boosting, whilst picking up a 3+ cover save. I had to go check the rules twice to be sure that was even legal.

Shining Spears just got very nasty as well with their boosted numbers. Warp Spiders are going to be all kinds of nasty for high T low I units in general (Tau Suits, Nid MC's, etc).

I thought battle focus specifically stated "Run". Does it also state Turbo Boosting?

It does specifically say run, and not turbo boost, so someone is going to have to check the rules a third time.

 Dash2021 wrote:
Sad panda. Just found the lock entry and noted they are indeed locked into guardian based units. Banshee's remain unpainted, unused and unloved in 6th. Not a giant Ward fan, but I guess we'll have to hope he makes the Biel'tan suplement as well so that they gain something that makes them useful. Till then they are just the poor cousins of quins and scorpions.

However, Scorpions are bananas now. I6 ap2 S8 claw? Yes please. If Kandras remains the beat stick he was in the last codex, I see this unit finding a home in some lists.

S7. Multiply before addition.

 mjl7atlas wrote:
Does anyone by chance have a comparison shot of the knight next to the other eldar titans?

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=470026213083776&set=a.179330538820013.45795.114192078667193&type=1&theater

The oval base turned like that with the outstretched hand makes the WK look like its surfing

 Byte wrote:

 Shandara wrote:
There's also:

Notice how straight the fourth laser lance is... Resin at its best.

Just a different angle. Others from top, that one from side. Step back from the ledge...

I really don't think it's supposed to bend that way...

MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Dash2021 wrote:
Sad panda. Just found the lock entry and noted they are indeed locked into guardian based units. Banshee's remain unpainted, unused and unloved in 6th. Not a giant Ward fan, but I guess we'll have to hope he makes the Biel'tan suplement as well so that they gain something that makes them useful. Till then they are just the poor cousins of quins and scorpions.

However, Scorpions are bananas now. I6 ap2 S8 claw? Yes please. If Kandras remains the beat stick he was in the last codex, I see this unit finding a home in some lists.

S7. Multiply before addition.

Actually S6. different weapons = choose one profile. You'd get an extra attack though, the claw not being a specialist weapon.

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:

MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Dash2021 wrote:
Sad panda. Just found the lock entry and noted they are indeed locked into guardian based units. Banshee's remain unpainted, unused and unloved in 6th. Not a giant Ward fan, but I guess we'll have to hope he makes the Biel'tan suplement as well so that they gain something that makes them useful. Till then they are just the poor cousins of quins and scorpions.

However, Scorpions are bananas now. I6 ap2 S8 claw? Yes please. If Kandras remains the beat stick he was in the last codex, I see this unit finding a home in some lists.

S7. Multiply before addition.

Actually S6. different weapons = choose one profile. You'd get an extra attack though, the claw not being a specialist weapon.

Could still be S7, if the Exarch takes Crushing Blow.

Chrysis wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

 Morachi wrote:
I'm still giddy at the fact Windriders can move 12", let rip then move up to 24" turbo boosting, whilst picking up a 3+ cover save. I had to go check the rules twice to be sure that was even legal.

Shining Spears just got very nasty as well with their boosted numbers. Warp Spiders are going to be all kinds of nasty for high T low I units in general (Tau Suits, Nid MC's, etc).

I thought battle focus specifically stated "Run". Does it also state Turbo Boosting?

It does specifically say run, and not turbo boost, so someone is going to have to check the rules a third time.

it says run not move. It also says models that can not run gain no bonus from battle focus. it doesn't do anything for bikes other than saying they have battle focus for the purpose of 100% of the unit having it in a mixed bike/infantry unit.

Bikes moving 12", turbo boosting 36", and shooting at a target that was 60" away before jumping 2d6 back in the assault phase would be a bibip

Warp spiders are brutal, but balanced out by the fact that they are an expensive t3 unit.

 mjl7atlas wrote:
Does anyone by chance have a comparison shot of the knight next to the other eldar titans?

Probably not exactly what you were looking for, but...

New plastic knight compared to original Epic Eldar knights:

 Anpu42 wrote:

I love people like that

As I play Eldar while my Zoats and my Squats gather dust, this made me both laugh and cry.

timd wrote:

 mjl7atlas wrote:
Does anyone by chance have a comparison shot of the knight next to the other eldar titans?

Probably not exactly what you were looking for, but...

New plastic knight compared to original Epic Eldar knights:

I have though that since it was released as a photo that the Wraithknight makes a perfect modernized Fire Gale Knight, which is the first knight pictured. It's too bad that the old GW would have named it the Fire Gale for an obvious link to Epic 40K, while the "new" GW just throws a naming trend to everything in a force (Blood, Dark, Wraith, etc).

 AegisGrimm wrote:

I have though that since it was released as a photo that the Wraithknight makes a perfect modernized Fire Gale Knight, which is the first knight pictured. It's too bad that the old GW would have named it the Fire Gale for an obvious link to Epic 40K, while the "new" GW just throws a naming trend to everything in a force (Blood, Dark, Wraith, etc).

Wait, there's a Dark BloodWraith? Where can I get one??????

And yes, the new model is obviously a Fire Gale with an updated weapons loadout.

T

timd wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:

I have though that since it was released as a photo that the Wraithknight makes a perfect modernized Fire Gale Knight, which is the first knight pictured. It's too bad that the old GW would have named it the Fire Gale for an obvious link to Epic 40K, while the "new" GW just throws a naming trend to everything in a force (Blood, Dark, Wraith, etc).

Wait, there's a Dark BloodWraith? Where can I get one??????

Wait for the Dark Eldar walker.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
The oval base turned like that with the outstretched hand makes the WK look like its surfing

Well, given the panic it seems to be causing to one of my local group's players, the thing must have the ability to Summon Galactus...

 AegisGrimm wrote:

timd wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:

I have though that since it was released as a photo that the Wraithknight makes a perfect modernized Fire Gale Knight, which is the first knight pictured. It's too bad that the old GW would have named it the Fire Gale for an obvious link to Epic 40K, while the "new" GW just throws a naming trend to everything in a force (Blood, Dark, Wraith, etc).

Wait, there's a Dark BloodWraith? Where can I get one??????

Wait for the Dark Eldar walker.

I'm hoping for something like this:

Then my scratchbuilt haemonculi monster can have legitimate rules!

Merging:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/531069.page