20774
Post by: pretre
No copypaste?
Batty wrote:via Batty (from the Faeit 212 inbox)
First we can start with orks what i have heard is that they stay the same with furious charge and mob rules but all orks ( not grots or squigs)
will get FnP 6+ as a race because they are basically tough and it takes a lot to kill and stop an ork.
Most weapons will stay the same except choppas are ap6 but gain ap5 on charge and big choppers will be +2s and ap4 and ap3 on charge.
Nobz stay the same but are getting more characterful upgrades available to them, new kinds or grot assistants such as suicide grots(act alot like bomb squigs but prone to blowing up in unit) and
ammo runts and attack squigs also more weapon options like Big shootas and such.
new nob mega armour unit with teleporting abilities but its teleporting works differently from conventional deepstrike bit more random.
There is a special mek character that can bestow teleportation on D3 units.
special bloodaxe character with rules that can bring back boyz units once they are destroyed, much like an imperial guard special character.
A large multi wound squigoth type creature, not FW, it is ever hungry and uses a hunger points system. if it doesn't fulfill the hunger points in enemy's it will rampage nearest unit friend or
foe in order to eat.
Two new ork psychic lists for weirdboys, Mork more offencive and Gork more strategic. Many powers in the lists get more powerful the more orks are around the weirboy,
although the more powerful they are the more dangerous they are if they are miscast as they will often misdirect or hit the weirdboy and unit.
New ork only fortifications (including an ork rock) and an ork only warlord chart.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
 pretre wrote:new nob mega armour unit with teleporting abilities but its teleporting works differently from conventional deepstrike bit more random cinematic.
Fixed.
Shouldn't that be the other way around? 
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Post by: wolfenstolme
I hope the improved choppa rumour is true, I've felt like I've been missing something since they were changed in 4th edition.
FNP could be a nice little boost for boyz survivability
42002
Post by: Kharrak
Surprised at the early rumours, but what it contains does link to the "leaked" GW list of upcoming units / units that require artwork / whatever it was.
I can see the rumours here touching on the Tellyporta Nobs, Squiggasaur, Rok Launcher, and possibly the Kommissar Grotzki units listed in that GW document.
But that may be because someone read that, and built rumours around it *shrug*.
Neat rumours, but suspiciously lacking in bad news. 
20774
Post by: pretre
Yeah, these rumors appear very 'safe'. Not sure if that is because they are true or because someone, as Kharrak said, just based some rumors off the release list.
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Post by: KingCracker
ap3 Bigchoppas on charge?! feth yes! I hope what that article says is true, because that already sounds like the right step for the Horde! Call me excited
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Post by: thesilverback
I hope these are close to being true would really add to ork colorfulness. Bring the Choppas Back.
20774
Post by: pretre
 KingCracker wrote:ap3 Bigchoppas on charge?! feth yes! I hope what that article says is true, because that already sounds like the right step for the Horde! Call me excited
Strange that they would make Big Choppas +2S/User AP3/4 Charge/Normal when Power Lances are +1S/User AP3/4 Charge/Normal. Why not just use the power lance rules?
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Post by: whigwam
This all sounds great if true. Changes to the Big Choppa would be welcome, they needed more of an edge (I'll get my coat...) Klaws and more Klaws is getting a little stale.
I just picked up Orks, so I have to believe they're getting an update. Once upon a time I just had outdated, stale Necrons and outdated, stale Daemons, but GW refuse to stop spoiling me.
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Post by: Chowderhead
pretre wrote: KingCracker wrote:ap3 Bigchoppas on charge?! feth yes! I hope what that article says is true, because that already sounds like the right step for the Horde! Call me excited
Strange that they would make Big Choppas +2S/User AP3/4 Charge/Normal when Power Lances are +1S/User AP3/4 Charge/Normal. Why not just use the power lance rules?
Because giant choppas are better than pointy sticks?
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Post by: Kanluwen
 H.B.M.C. wrote: pretre wrote:new nob mega armour unit with teleporting abilities but its teleporting works differently from conventional deepstrike bit more random cinematic.
Fixed.
Shouldn't that be the other way around?
Cinemacity!
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Post by: pretre
Agreed! Just from a simplicity standpoint, seems that it was be easier to use 'Big Choppa: Uses Power Lance rules from main rulebook'. then it is a giant choppa with all the benefits of a pointy stick. 
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Post by: whigwam
pretre wrote:
Agreed! Just from a simplicity standpoint, seems that it was be easier to use 'Big Choppa: Uses Power Lance rules from main rulebook'. then it is a giant choppa with all the benefits of a pointy stick.
I think the difference would be that a Lance's +1S only lasts for the charge. Big Choppa's could give a permanent +2S like they do now, except with variable AP.
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Post by: Leigen_Zero
No! Mork was brutally cunning, Gork was cunningly brutal! 
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Post by: Grarg
pretre wrote:
There is a special mek character that can bestow teleportation on D3 units.
Orkimedes? Yes please....
42002
Post by: Kharrak
Interestingly, this would be the first codex roll over I'll experience. I've played Orks for over four years, and that's when I got into 40k. I'm finally going to be victim to all the excitement / depression that comes with new edition rumours. Everything else, I picked up post codex release due to interesting playstyles, and neat models.
The Big Choppa ap3 on the charge would be great for making up for any Overwatch casualties, and even that ap4 would be neat. As stated already, it's nice to see Big Choppas give some (rumoured) competition to PK's. The 6+ FnP is pretty neat though, but totally not something I saw coming, even from rumours.
I love the Weirdboy ideas there, gives you even more reason to surround him with Boyz rather than the leadership. I'd be interested in seeing what the new possibilities are - considering the suggestion that the risk increases as the abilities increase, they'll hopefully be rather eyebrow raising abilities.
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Post by: Graphite
FNP across the board?
I'll be over here, ordering the grots to shovel some more salt onto the pile.
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Post by: Afrodactyl
Graphite wrote:FNP across the board?
I'll be over here, ordering the grots to shovel some more salt onto the pile.
It coupd be that on the turn they Waaagh! they have FNP across the board.
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Post by: Dez
pretre wrote: KingCracker wrote:ap3 Bigchoppas on charge?! feth yes! I hope what that article says is true, because that already sounds like the right step for the Horde! Call me excited
Strange that they would make Big Choppas +2S/User AP3/4 Charge/Normal when Power Lances are +1S/User AP3/4 Charge/Normal. Why not just use the power lance rules?
Orks don't get Power Weapons, only Power Klaws. Though if you are saying 'Why don't they just say Big Choppas count as Power Lances' that would come close. They might not do this, because the Big Choppa currently adds +2 strength and they wouldn't want to change the existing modifiers?
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Post by: Harriticus
Ork tech being very random is actually very Orky....The whole "cinematic" part doesn't bother me as much as other factions.
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Post by: nkelsch
Rumors sound reasonable, not over the top and in-line with the 6th edition and recent codex thinking.
As long as they don't invalidate models, I am happy. I have lots of BC nobs who would like to see tabletop gameplay.
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Post by: Charles Rampant
It does have to be said that a lot of Big Choppa models are unpainted in my collection, because why bother? It is a shame, because they have some of the meanest looking weapons in 40k.
I'm not sure that GW love us enough to give 6+ FNP across the board. I don't think that it is impossible - note SoB 6++ - just could be kinda wishlisty. Same for improvements to weapons' AP value on the charge - could be very neat, could not pan out. It'd need to be 3+ to make a huge difference against the most common opponents, as the dangerous melee opponents in Xenos lists tend to have 3/4++ invuns (Wraiths, Harliquins, wyches etc) rather than 4+ or 5+ normal saves, meaning that, in the main, only marine models are worth bringing low AP weapons against.
I'd also expect to see some of the weaker and less commonly seen models boosted. Like, how many people have bought the DeffDread model? We've already seen this with the Meganobz.
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Post by: Gitzbitah
I believe it goes 'Mork (or possibly Gork) was brutally cunning, while Gork (or possibly Mork) was cunningly brutal. The Orks themselves rarely are able to definitively say which God they worship.  That being said, if they really wanted to build enthusiasm for renewed weirdboy magic, all they'd need to do is tease a foot shaped template on the web or white dwarf.
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Post by: Chosen Praetorian
Im hoping this comes out sooner than later. Ive been playing orks since their last dex came out and im not saying im bored with them but it would definitely be nice to see some new action. Im wanting some new units and rules to go along with every ones new GK/necron/chaos toys.
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Post by: Grimtuff
Graphite wrote:FNP across the board?
I'll be over here, ordering the grots to shovel some more salt onto the pile.
They need it in this day and age of Overwatch everywhere. It just means anything bigger (but not too big!) than a Lasgun gives them their 6+ save back. I like it.
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Post by: kestral
6+ FNP? Just what an ork player needs - a bunch more dice to roll! 'Cause all those fast playing tournament ork armies were causing issues.
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Post by: Clang
kestral wrote:6+ FNP? Just what an ork player needs - a bunch more dice to roll! 'Cause all those fast playing tournament ork armies were causing issues.
True, but then orks only rarely roll for normal armour saves, so a FNP roll would be no more tedious than all those boring Power Armour 3+ saves that marines insist on rolling for some reason... 
I don't hate any of the above rumours. Orks definitely need some method of getting through armour besides the PK - something like the proposed choppa rules would be a good solution, both ruleswise and fluffwise.
The monstrous creature makes some sense so long as the kit can do double duty as a WHFB Orc monster as well - otherwise seems unlikely.
And a MANz boost seems incredibly likely, given we're all expecting a new plastic kit which GW will want to sell zillions of.
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Post by: Kroothawk
1.) The release is more than a year in the future, maybe a lot more than a year. Not sure if writing the Codex has even started.
2.) The rumour is posted on faeit 212 with a low accuracy on rumours.
3.) It features a lot of rule details only determined late in Codex development, but forgets to say if it is concept, play test or whatever. Very early for all of those.
So I can't see how such a set of rumours can have any value at this time of Codex development. Sounds like random guesses/wishlist by an Ork player. I could be wrong though.
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Post by: d3m01iti0n
These rumors look good. If theyre true I may dust my greenskins off!!!
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Post by: gianlucafiorentini123
I hope orks get a new codex soon, I don't play them but every time I see ork models it cheers me up. I don't know why.
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Post by: Fango
Wrong thread...
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Post by: Ronin
Rumours be looking great, and really fluffy too, which is the real surprising thing, so I got my bag of salt with me.
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Post by: Phydox
All this stuff looks great, but I'd expect a downside too, specifically involving Lootas. Lootas are in most lists, which means they're selling, which means GW can reign them back now for another units not selling as well.
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Post by: Madcat87
The change to Big Choppas certainly looks good as the only reason I ever took them was for wound allocating on Nob Squads.
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Post by: Donomar
 thesilverback wrote:I hope these are close to being true would really add to ork colorfulness. Bring the Choppas Back.
+1
More random stuff, ladz blowing up, oh and some mad boyz too!
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Post by: Samus_aran115
Neat. I think it's a stretch for all orks to have FNP, but it would be interesting.
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Post by: Ronin
 Samus_aran115 wrote:Neat. I think it's a stretch for all orks to have FNP, but it would be interesting.
I think it's pretty fluffy, considering Orks are always touted as being as 'ard as nails. And I dont think a 6+ FnP is particularly game-breaking for them. They rarely get their t-shirt saves as is.
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Post by: Luke_Prowler
Except Space Marines are also know for being very hard to kill, and that toughness is represented by both of them having T4. From a mechanic point of view, I'm not sure it's necessary
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Post by: Ronin
True enough. Which is why Im taking these rumours (as nice as they are) with a grain of salt.
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Post by: WarOne
Orks need better charging rules as they rely heavily upon that when their volume of fire fails them.
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Post by: Kharrak
I think it's always a good idea to never assume, no matter how much you'd want to, that any rumours are solid - even if it fits really, really well to the race and/or what you want
Orks generally seem one of the more popular factions - they're one of the "big four" locally at least, in regards to product placement in the hobby stores - so it wouldn't be unheard of for them to be pushed forward a bit. However, even as an Ork player, I feel that the other older 4th edition codices are in more urgent need of an update. Considering we're getting rumours for Dark Angels, Eldar, and Tau, and the Daemons got a mini update, with another mini update on the way, I don't think it's unrealistic for some Ork rumours to start seeping through the cracks - true or not.
I'd love a new edition, but more for the new toys, rather than any major perception that they need it, so I'll be content to let the others catch up while I expand my collection into other armies.
To jump back to wishlisting, I'd love to see an Ork flyer variant that fires rokkits - a proppa' tankbusta jet. D6 rokkits fired every turn! Or one with snazzy Mek gubbin's on it.
Which leads me to get very excited over all the new Big Mek devices we may see 
Also, ever since the Blood and Thunder 40k comic, I've wanted an upgrade for Nobs that mounted a Big Shoota turret over his shoulders, fired by a gretchin lacky.
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Post by: Fafnir
6+ FnP for every Ork is silly. It's just more dice for the sake of more dice. 6th edition's systems are already bloated and convoluted as it is (especially wound allocation and resolution), I don't think that adding an extra save to make for every unit in an army known for regularly fielding 100-150 models in a game is a good idea at all. Especially since you'll have to make each save individually in units containing a character.
Everything else looks okay, I guess. Not enough to get me interested in actually playing 40k again, but it certainly doesn't look terrible
42002
Post by: Kharrak
 Fafnir wrote:6+ FnP for every Ork is silly. It's just more dice for the sake of more dice. 6th edition's systems are already bloated and convoluted as it is (especially wound allocation and resolution), I don't think that adding an extra save to make for every unit in an army known for regularly fielding 100-150 models in a game is a good idea at all. Especially since you'll have to make each save individually in units containing a character.
Speed rolling, yo. Batch rolls for the models in front of the character until all are dead. Then char rolls. Then next batch rolls. It takes a bit of getting used to, but it only gets somewhat bogged when you get to Look Out Sir. It's really not much of an issue for Orks, considering the general homogeneous of their units. You will rarely have more than two characters in a unit, and mostly only in a single unit within an army. As such, you'll have a single character most of the time, and batch rolling the rest of the time.
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Post by: KingCracker
Ronin wrote: Samus_aran115 wrote:Neat. I think it's a stretch for all orks to have FNP, but it would be interesting.
I think it's pretty fluffy, considering Orks are always touted as being as 'ard as nails. And I dont think a 6+ FnP is particularly game-breaking for them. They rarely get their t-shirt saves as is.
Agreed, if somehow an entire 30boy mob was wiped out but still got their FNP saves, youd only save roughly 3-4 boyz on average. Definitely not game breaking
Luke_Prowler wrote:Except Space Marines are also know for being very hard to kill, and that toughness is represented by both of them having T4. From a mechanic point of view, I'm not sure it's necessary
Except according to fluff, Orks can have their heads removed and survive for a period of time like that until its transplanted. Ive never heard of a SpaceMarine being able to do that
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Post by: Davylove21
Rumours of new big models with new gameplay mechanics make me think of the chaos zords which in turn alienates me even more from 40K
One unit in an army can ruin the whole force for me and they're all gradually getting their new, wacky toys
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Post by: Skarshak
These rumors, though good, will be taken with a sprinkle of salt! We're still a ways off before our respective Waaaghs get an upgrade!
FNP on the Waaagh turn makes sence, and the Big Choppas do need a better edge!
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Post by: ravenousork25
was thinking the same thing. But good thing these are just rumours we still have are a year out for the new one.
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Post by: happygolucky
Hope the big choppa rule comes true, I have a big choppa death star unit that is kinda used now for cannon fodder now these days  I would love it if they gave back a little decapitation to my unit that would be awesome . Also Teleportas... yes I want Tesla coils for my orks... run down beat-up Tesla coils... .
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Post by: Goresaw
Kroot is right though, hoping any of these rumors are true is nothing more than a pipe dream. I think the only discussion of re-doing the ork book at this point is an offhanded remark from a designer or two saying they'd like to do it.
Tau and Eldar desperately need to be brought into the new edition. The armies still work in 6th, and can be quite powerful, but the books are based on so many old, out of date mechanics. Black templar are the worst off, as they've lost any sort of defining characteristic. They are worse in every single way to the other marine books at this point. Daemons are probably the most powerful old army at this point, but thats only because the WD update made screamers and flamers premier Tier 1 units that are insanely powerful in this edition (and gain benefits like Eternal Warrior, and Fearless, which are probably going away in the new book).
Orks are still fairly points appropriate. Orks mechanics aren't horribly off base. Orks are still a strong middle/high tier competitive army. A wave of the missing minis (meganobz, buggies, and copters) would be more than enough attention to our green friends for a while.
Besides, I'd hate to suffer the huge excitement build up of the Chaos book only to actually look at it and go "meh... why'd they do a new book again?" The more they wait to do the book, the better it will be. Gives the designers time to really think about what they want to do with this edition and how the armies will work.
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Post by: The Dwarf Wolf
While i would like to add some variance into my army, i must say my warboss would never like to drop his power klaw for one of those "fancy choopas".
Any other model in the army will not benefit so much from a weapon like that, as hitting with normal Initiative is not so great for orkz (initiative 3 is hitting last almost always).
And expect an increase in point cost if that rules come in.
So, i will keep polishing my PK's
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Post by: Billagio
Man those choppa rules look awesome. But damn, that FNP is amazing. I know it wont make much of a difference, but keeping ma boyz alive is what I like.
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Post by: Crazyterran
Orks don't need a 6+ FNP unless they are going to get a large price increase as well. +2 - 4 PPM :/
Power Mauls mixed with Power Lances seem silly. I can see Big Choppas getting the same treatment as Chain Axes.
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Post by: Nym
Goresaw wrote:Orks are still fairly points appropriate. Orks mechanics aren't horribly off base. Orks are still a strong middle/high tier competitive army.
Orks are not "fairly points appropriate", only Boyz, Lootas, Rolla wagons and the Warboss / Big Mek are.
Unfortunately, there are a dozen other units in our codex, and nearly all of them are too expensive or need to be reworked in some way. Sure, Orks can still win if you bring all the aforementioned units, but that doesn't mean the codex as a whole is good. When you have to play with the same 5-6 units every game, the game gets boring quickly.
I'm NOT saying they should get an update before Eldar or Tau (who truly need one), but people should get out of their heads that Orks are "fine" as they are.
PS : for those wondering why I didn't list Nobz / Meganobz, just look at their point-cost, then look at their Leadership value. No other "elite" unit in all 40k has such a crappy Leadership. When your 300pts unit gets pinned as easily as a bunch of Gretchins, you know there's something wrong...
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Post by: whigwam
Nym wrote:Orks are not "fairly points appropriate", only Boyz, Lootas, Rolla wagons and the Warboss / Big Mek are.
Don't forget Big Gunz, which, oddly, seem underpriced with the changes to artillery. 103 pts for 19 wounds of T7/3+, shooting 3 S5 Barrage blasts a turn...yeah, I'll take that. Then there's the Dakkajet, one of the most point-efficient Flyers in the game. Not to say Orks don't have a lot of uncompetitive options...but their Codex's age-to-usefulness ratio is off the charts when compared to similarly dated books.
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Post by: Dysartes
Crazyterran wrote:Orks don't need a 6+ FNP unless they are going to get a large price increase as well. +2 - 4 PPM :/
I'm curious - why do you think they'd need such a large cost increase?
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Post by: Nym
 whigwam wrote:Then there's the Dakkajet, one of the most point-efficient Flyers in the game.
I initially wrote a much longer post, pointing-out why the Dakkajet sucked point-wise, but removed it because I didn't want to sound like I was ranting, but here is a sum-up :
"Even our brand new flyer is broken point-wise. A Vendetta costs the same as a Dakkajet (ie : our cheapest plane, and arguably the only "good" one) but gets AV12 front and side, hover mode and transport capacity. A necron Nightscythe has AV11 all-around, a transport capacity of 15 models (who don't die when the plane is destroyed), can drop its cargo after moving 36", comes with a Heavy 4 TL Str7 gun that averages more hits than its initial number of shots, living metal, and a 30pts discount compared to the Dakkajet. To add insult to the injury, the Nightscythe is a dedicated transport !"
Don't get me wrong, I like the Dakkajet, but point-wise, it should be *way* cheaper.
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Post by: whigwam
Vendettas/Night Scythes/Dakkajets are all different animals. Each can outperform one another depending on the task at hand. For instance, the Dakkajet's better against light armor and infantry than the Night Scythe (and obviously much better against those targets than a Vendetta), even on a non-WAAAGH turn. On the WAAAGH, a Dakkajet will take out Scythes more reliably than a Vendetta and will murder infantry unlike any Flyer in the game (except maybe the Heldrake).
Anyway, we can disagree on the Dakkajet. I don't think it's the end-all, be-all of Flyers, but I think it can certainly hang with the big boys if you accept its limitations and play up its strengths.
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Post by: MajorWesJanson
Phydox wrote:All this stuff looks great, but I'd expect a downside too, specifically involving Lootas. Lootas are in most lists, which means they're selling, which means GW can reign them back now for another units not selling as well.
Easiest way to nerf Lootas fairly would be to swap them with Flash gitz. Being in elite would make Flash gitz maybe viable, and being in HS would mean Lootas were competing with other valuable options like Battlewagons, Kans, and Deffdreds.
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Post by: Crazyterran
 Dysartes wrote:Crazyterran wrote:Orks don't need a 6+ FNP unless they are going to get a large price increase as well. +2 - 4 PPM :/
I'm curious - why do you think they'd need such a large cost increase?
You are getting an army wide 6+ FNP that allows you to save against the usual anti-Horde weaponry that can't be picked out and shot like Meks can.
Space Marines clot wounds instantly and have a redundant organ system, but they don't have a FNP. So fluff isn't a reason for such a nice buff to an army that still maintains a fairly strong Codex.
maybe +2 points per model at the most for this, but an Ork boy is already 6pts and probably has one of the better non-Space Marine stat lines in the game. Not to mention Chaos Space Marines pay 2-5ppm for a 1+ LD and Hatred(Space Marines), I'd say a 6+ FNP is stronger than that. In my opinion, at least.
Especially if KFF stays in!
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Post by: MrMoustaffa
Crazyterran wrote: Dysartes wrote:Crazyterran wrote:Orks don't need a 6+ FNP unless they are going to get a large price increase as well. +2 - 4 PPM :/
I'm curious - why do you think they'd need such a large cost increase?
You are getting an army wide 6+ FNP that allows you to save against the usual anti-Horde weaponry that can't be picked out and shot like Meks can.
Space Marines clot wounds instantly and have a redundant organ system, but they don't have a FNP. So fluff isn't a reason for such a nice buff to an army that still maintains a fairly strong Codex.
maybe +2 points per model at the most for this, but an Ork boy is already 6pts and probably has one of the better non-Space Marine stat lines in the game. Not to mention Chaos Space Marines pay 2-5ppm for a 1+ LD and Hatred(Space Marines), I'd say a 6+ FNP is stronger than that. In my opinion, at least.
Especially if KFF stays in!
It's a 1 in 6 chance of saving a wound, that will probably be their only save unless they're in a KFF bubble. It also goes away when you double their toughness. If you got 18 wounds through their initial save, that would only save 3 boyz on average. These are the guys who can have their head chopped off and survive as if nothing happens as long as it gets reattached somewhat soon. It's not crazy that they would have a small FNP stat, especially since it's mentioned all the time that they rarely feel pain.
This isn't exactly game breaking. Sisters of battle have a straight up +6 invuln and I've never heard anyone call that broken.
But, none of this really matters, because as much as I'd love these rumors to be true, there's no way that's going to happen with GW. All of this makes sense, and if there's one thing I've learned with GW, nothing they do makes sense.
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Post by: Dribble Joy
Given the point reduction/increase in effectiveness of other more recent armies, adding a 6+ FNP to Orks for no points increase is reasonable.
The choppa rumour does chime with the choppa rule from the O&G army book, though big choppas getting AP3 on the charge seems less likely, at least not with a permanent +2 str as well.
Perhaps there might be an army wide -1 AP on the charge, who knows. Maybe Big choppas simply become power spears (nobs still hitting at str 6 AP3)? Who knows. If what this is what it says it is, it's still in a testing stage. Being a year out, that could be true, but still leaves plenty of room for change.
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Post by: Ronin
To be honest Im almost expecting Ork boys will have to pay 1pt per model to gain shootas over having slugga/choppa. As it is there's no real incentive in running slugga boys anymore.
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Post by: KingCracker
Crazyterran wrote: Dysartes wrote:Crazyterran wrote:Orks don't need a 6+ FNP unless they are going to get a large price increase as well. +2 - 4 PPM :/
I'm curious - why do you think they'd need such a large cost increase?
You are getting an army wide 6+ FNP that allows you to save against the usual anti-Horde weaponry that can't be picked out and shot like Meks can. Space Marines clot wounds instantly and have a redundant organ system, but they don't have a FNP. So fluff isn't a reason for such a nice buff to an army that still maintains a fairly strong Codex. maybe +2 points per model at the most for this, but an Ork boy is already 6pts and probably has one of the better non-Space Marine stat lines in the game. Not to mention Chaos Space Marines pay 2-5ppm for a 1+ LD and Hatred(Space Marines), I'd say a 6+ FNP is stronger than that. In my opinion, at least. Especially if KFF stays in!
And again, on a blob of 30 boyz, if all were wounded, youd save...4? Wow, so 4 boyz left, that then would have to take a LD test do to losing more then 25% during shooting....on LD7. Yup, thats going to win me the game for sure, better ramp those points up 
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Post by: Anung Un Rama
I keep forgetting which meant what.
Too early to speculate on rumors but I'd love to see Orkimedes get some fluff and rules. 
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Post by: Dribble Joy
 Ronin wrote:To be honest Im almost expecting Ork boys will have to pay 1pt per model to gain shootas over having slugga/choppa. As it is there's no real incentive in running slugga boys anymore.
What if Shootas became rapid fire?
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Post by: Ronin
 Dribble Joy wrote: Ronin wrote:To be honest Im almost expecting Ork boys will have to pay 1pt per model to gain shootas over having slugga/choppa. As it is there's no real incentive in running slugga boys anymore.
What if Shootas became rapid fire?
That would be so un-Orky that I'd have to clobber you over the head for making such a suggestion.
53708
Post by: TedNugent
Crazyterran 486371 wrote:
You are getting an army wide 6+ FNP that allows you to save against the usual anti-Horde weaponry that can't be picked out and shot like Meks can.
Space Marines clot wounds instantly and have a redundant organ system, but they don't have a FNP. So fluff isn't a reason for such a nice buff to an army that still maintains a fairly strong Codex.
Okay, I was reading the Mad Dok Grotsnik Codex entry today and it literally says that Mad Dok Grotsnik died "multiple times" and a Grot puked in his brain and he came out alive, but a little crazy (hence some rather strict Rage rules).
6+ FNP = 1/6 change to spare a 6 point model. 1/6 chance to save 6 point model is 6/6 for points-per-save, or 1, which equates to 1 point. 1 point would be a sensible cost increase.
Not that it matters considering that OP is an obvious fan wishlist, but okay.
45565
Post by: cormadepanda
6+ feel no pain(t) (see what i did there? ) ork boyz along with a 6+ armor save, seems legit for fluffy reasons. Orks are tough, and suppose to stop at nothing. In reality it doesnt alter the ork effectiveness all that much, just makes your blobs slightly more worth while.
What i would like to see from orks is:
More special weapons for a troops choice, like a plasma similar upgrade, bolters, and the sort (insert fun idea here).
I would also like to see the option to take more then one ard boy squad, just make a upgrade. More goffs status.
On that note something like a pt upgrade to a boy to fit to a clan, much like chaos with the marks.
Got your standard boy, then got pt upgrade to clan, that alters a stat.
Would like to see orks to be able to loot again, allowing them to take enemy vechs, alter to bs2 and such maybe even drop pts by 33% and av values by 1. also allowing upgrades to ork tank armor.
Would like to see more of a reason to take warboss's. More often then not i see them losing. More upgrade options.
New heavy weapons and such.
As far as rules go, maybe add blood lust counters? per kill the orks build up more waghhh ect. expand on this later.
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Post by: ZebioLizard2
More special weapons for a troops choice, like a plasma similar upgrade, bolters, and the sort (insert fun idea here).
People don't even take Mega Blasta's for anything now in the list since BS2 1 shots don't exactly send shivers down the enemies spine. Also shoota's are pretty good compared to bolters due to their cost, yet still putting out 2 Assault shots at a decent charge range.
52054
Post by: MrMoustaffa
Honestly, I'd be thrilled even if all we got was the option to take a burna for every 10 boyz. That alone would make me a very happy ork player.
Unless they come up with another new weapon though, there aren't really any other weapons I can think of that I'd want to be able to take on boyz mobz.
I still think a nob for every 10 boyz would be a huge help for us though. Having 2-3 nobz in a unit of boyz would be a lifesaver in regards to us getting screwed with challenges.
45565
Post by: cormadepanda
but having 2 or 3 sergeants is confusing.
42002
Post by: Kharrak
We already have it in grot mobs!
I'd agree that a way to either make Nobs harder to hit in mobs, or make it easier to redirect damage away from those Nobs, would be welcome.
52054
Post by: MrMoustaffa
Try playing blob guard some time. We can regularly have 3 to 6 characters in a single unit. It's not really that bad at all.
It's not really any harder than having 2 or 3 big shootas, or 2 or 3 meks in your loota unit.
19970
Post by: Jadenim
Sorry to get wish listy, but how about a better 'ard boy for one in ten; can take better armour, big choppa and other war gear options. Maybe a stat boost too. Kinda like a close combat equivalent to the big shoota or rokkit upgrade?
42002
Post by: Kharrak
By the by, has come out that these rules are playtest rules - not rumours of anything making it into any final plan, which I think every sensible person suspected anyway.
Just some of the things they are trying out as they toss around things for the new 'dex.
...assuming *any* of this is legit to start with.
53708
Post by: TedNugent
Games Workshop playtests their rules? Now that's a rumor I don't believe
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Post by: matphat
Crazyterran wrote: Dysartes wrote:Crazyterran wrote:Orks don't need a 6+ FNP unless they are going to get a large price increase as well. +2 - 4 PPM :/
I'm curious - why do you think they'd need such a large cost increase?
You are getting an army wide 6+ FNP that allows you to save against the usual anti-Horde weaponry that can't be picked out and shot like Meks can.
Space Marines clot wounds instantly and have a redundant organ system, but they don't have a FNP. So fluff isn't a reason for such a nice buff to an army that still maintains a fairly strong Codex.
maybe +2 points per model at the most for this, but an Ork boy is already 6pts and probably has one of the better non-Space Marine stat lines in the game. Not to mention Chaos Space Marines pay 2-5ppm for a 1+ LD and Hatred(Space Marines), I'd say a 6+ FNP is stronger than that. In my opinion, at least.
Especially if KFF stays in!
I'm going to speak purely anecdotally here, but my rate of success rolling a 6+ save, regardless of the incarnation, makes me believe that a 6+ FNP would be, at best, a marginal buff to the army and would not need a cost increase for balance. And as under performing as the Ork army is, I highly doubt such a buff would do much of anything to nudge us in to anything remotely resembling "competitive".
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Post by: CuddlySquig
I doubt this is in the real.
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Post by: NamelessBard
What's the point of saying stuff like this?
It's far more likely that this is the type of stuff they are play testing. Why not try as much crazy stuff as possible then pick out what they like.
Just like the 'leak' 6ed rules where not fake, just a version of a play test.
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Post by: pretre
NamelessBard wrote:Just like the 'leak' 6ed rules where not fake, just a version of a play test.
Allegedly.
45565
Post by: cormadepanda
Hmmm 2-3 nobs a squad sounds fasinating now, but other weapons besides a claw and a choppy would be nice, like maces, heavy shooty weapons Ect.
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Post by: SgtSixkilla
Bang Bang 'Ammas!! I'z wantin' summa dose! Even if they're just tankhammers under a different name, available to all nobz etc. "Sx2 ap2 unwieldy concussive two-handed" would have been sweet though.
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Post by: hungryp
Wait...Choppas that cut through armour? Never happen! [/TROLL]
While this all seems interesting, it doesn't reek enough of ridiculousness to make me think it has a lot of truth to it. I'm really starting to miss the good ole days of losing special rules in the effort to streamline everything.
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Post by: Kroothawk
Stickmonkey on BOLS wrote:Ork Miniatures (alongside the codex)
New Weirdboy
Wazdakka
MegaNobs - Tellyportas combo-kit
CybOrks
Grot Gliders - (very odd one, a 40K version of WFB Doomdivers?)
Mega Mork/Gork - (your guess is as good as mine)
Ork Miniatures (outside the codex)
New Buggy - Half-track
DeffCoptas
Flashgits - Tankbustas plastic combo-kit
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Post by: VenomBlood
Each time GW releases underwhelming wave of fabulous orks it seems like over the top to me. GW wont leave ork fans with spare cash, ever.
It worked fine mostly, that's kinda guesswork tradition, so I'll try one more time ...
... my gut tells me new meganobz and codex stuff Jan 2014. Fingers crossed.
16457
Post by: Ronin
Sounds pretty good to me, on the whole. Just a couple things though:
Wazdakka - Awesome.
CybOrks - No longer just upgrades, but a unit in itself? Or would this just be an upgrade kit to represent the upgrade?
Grot Gliders - Cant say Im too fond of the idea. I just keep thinking of the O&G Doom Divers, and while amusing, dont really mesh with 40k Orks to me.
Mega Mork/Gork - Something in between a Mega-Dread and a Stompa perhaps?
The Flashgits - Tankbustas plastic kit sounds a bit off, if only because Flashgits have a Nob statline, and the Tankbustas are only Boyz. Which would either mean that Flashgits will be made smaller (akin to the ones in DoW1), or Tankbustas bigger. Or could be an inaccurate rumour all round.
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Post by: Blackgaze
If Orks do come out next year, it give me an excuse to clean up my Ork Army (it's a mess from 3rd edition)
I would like to see some last codex features back like the Painboss, burnas in squads, similar old lootas/looted vehicles styles.
The rumoured rules are pretty good too.
Also where's my codex gretchin!?
42002
Post by: Kharrak
 Kroothawk wrote:Stickmonkey on BOLS wrote:Ork Miniatures (alongside the codex)
New Weirdboy
Wazdakka
MegaNobs - Tellyportas combo-kit
CybOrks
Grot Gliders - (very odd one, a 40K version of WFB Doomdivers?)
Mega Mork/Gork - (your guess is as good as mine)
Ork Miniatures (outside the codex)
New Buggy - Half-track
DeffCoptas
Flashgits - Tankbustas plastic combo-kit
Well... that's interesting.
We already knew of the Tellyporta Nobs, the new Buggy (FINALLY) and Deffcoptas, but I'm also surprised to see the Tankbustas be put in with the FlashGits. It's great for them to now be in plastic (never liked the metal/resin variants), but I wonder if this indicates a stat/rule change for them?
Looking forward to the new Weirdboy miniature. I seem to recall Cyborks from an earlier edition? Or am I thinking of the Forgeworld ones?
And... grot gliders!? Zog me, this is what happens if you don't keep 'dem gubbins safe! (Seriously curious to see how these would work in 40k, though!)
And the Mega (G/M)ork. May be an Idol? A terrain piece, maybe? Or a deliciously fantastic walker?
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Post by: cerealkiller195
Telyporta Mega Nobz makes sense Orkmiedes (sp) used these tactics and built mechanical wonders for the orks during the Armageddon campaign gw ran. They even mentioned him quite a few times in the book itself so i can see him as a character.
6+ FNP is a good thing to have seeing as everything but a lasgun, grot weapons and the warp spider's weapon have AP - off the top of my head. There are more weapons with an AP value than before so that also negates the mighty tee shirt save.
Hope they bring back some of the more random things like in RT/2nd ed. Would love some splatta guns among other things. Hey they brought back the Shokk Attakk Gun and weirdboyz so it isn't that much of a stretch. Bring back Nazdreg! He has been in the fluff till the 4th ed book so already has plenty of background.
I know i am some what rambling, i have been an ork player since 98. I will agree that the 4th ed ork book was pretty good so if they keep up the trend and add a few new units here and there I would be quite happy
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Post by: battlematt
so far so good. Models and points reduction for flash gits would be great. FNP6+ is not a big deal and fits with fluff. I must say that will add a lot of dice rolling though. A kill canon option for more vehicles maybe dreads would be nice. A kill canon bit would be great too.
42002
Post by: Kharrak
I'd actually like to see more Warlord characters. Though useful on the table, I've never really been attracted to the fiction behind Gazzy.
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Post by: cormadepanda
i would love to see more variation in ork weapons.
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Post by: Charles Rampant
That release list is interesting. I'd be happy to hear about plastic tankbustas - the resin kit is just not good value, especially as you'd need two or three to make a good sized squad, leaving you with redundant nob models.
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Post by: MrMoustaffa
 Charles Rampant wrote:That release list is interesting. I'd be happy to hear about plastic tankbustas - the resin kit is just not good value, especially as you'd need two or three to make a good sized squad, leaving you with redundant nob models.
Honestly, you could make great tankbustas with a box of boyz with rokkit launchas. The basic boyz box comes with 3 or 4 tankbusta bombs, and if you've been playing for a while, I'm sure you've got tons of rokkits leftover from loota boxes and the regular boyz boxes as well.
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Post by: Dribble Joy
Ronin wrote:The Flashgits - Tankbustas plastic kit sounds a bit off, if only because Flashgits have a Nob statline, and the Tankbustas are only Boyz. Which would either mean that Flashgits will be made smaller (akin to the ones in DoW1), or Tankbustas bigger. Or could be an inaccurate rumour all round.
The last codex gits were just boys with kustom shootas. They could go back to that perhaps.
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Post by: WvLopp
I would like to see some up grades based on clans.
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Post by: Ronin
Dribble Joy wrote:The last codex gits were just boys with kustom shootas. They could go back to that perhaps.
Would probably explain why Dawn of War 1 Flash Gitz were boy-sized then
That does put the Flash Gitz in an interesting predicament then. Does that mean that as a shooty-infantry unit they're somewhere between Shoota boyz and Lootas? Wonder what role that is supposed to occupy.
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Post by: jayjester
Lootas used to be something completely different as well. There wasn't anything about making a shoulder mounted weapons platform, it was boyz who had the unusual tendency to pick up enemy weapons and use them instead of ork weapons. So, they went from being a way for blood axes to use imperial weaponry legally in an ork list, to being the strongest and longest range boyz available.
Flashgitz, like mentioned already, were normal shoota boyz, but with more firepower options. They were a bit redundant, but so was nearly half of the old ork codex.
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Post by: adamsouza
I just want something that will let my Ork Warboss fight a filthy Necron Lord with Mind Shackle Scarabs without murdering himself.
42002
Post by: Kharrak
 adamsouza wrote:I just want something that will let my Ork Warboss fight a filthy Necron Lord with Mind Shackle Scarabs without murdering himself.
You have to be careful here - something that's best for a new codex, isn't necessarily something you want. The Necron Lord with MSS terrifies ALL factions, not just Orks - they aren't in need of special attention. Not counting the MSS, Warbosses are still a force to be reckoned with.
In general, however, Nobs may want a slight boost in challenges, considering the assault heavy theme that runs with Orks. Possibly something in regards to bring back an initiative boost, so that Nobs with Big Choppas or CCW's can at least hit at the same time as your general i4 units, as well as just a little something to help overcome the hurdle created by lost bodies due to Overwatch.
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Post by: Jidmah
Ronin wrote:To be honest Im almost expecting Ork boys will have to pay 1pt per model to gain shootas over having slugga/choppa. As it is there's no real incentive in running slugga boys anymore.
Well, then they should give us an incentive. Stikkbomms for free, allow burnaz as special weapons or additional options for the nob would all push the scales back towards slugga boyz.
MajorWesJanson wrote:Phydox wrote:All this stuff looks great, but I'd expect a downside too, specifically involving Lootas. Lootas are in most lists, which means they're selling, which means GW can reign them back now for another units not selling as well.
Easiest way to nerf Lootas fairly would be to swap them with Flash gitz. Being in elite would make Flash gitz maybe viable, and being in HS would mean Lootas were competing with other valuable options like Battlewagons, Kans, and Deffdreds.
The easiest way to prevent everyone from spamming lootaz would be providing a worthwhile alternative. Lootaz are pretty much the same as IG heavy weapon teams with auto-cannons, and you hardly see anyone fielding[ those. Decent flash gits, blitza bommers or tank bustaz or otherwise reliable vehicle-cracking units would easily end the lootaz omnipresence in ork armies, even if they remained completely unchanged.
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Post by: Paitryn
The problem I have with flash gits is that they compete for a HW slot, have far too short of range, and are quite costly. Though they are admittedly great at what they do, I still have to choose them over battlewagons for da boyz. (mech still works pretty well in this edition if your using them right.)
42002
Post by: Kharrak
The problem I have with flash gits, is that they still for all the upgrades and points you put into them, they still only hit on 5+.
53504
Post by: Dribble Joy
If they started at Assault 2 and had an Assault 3 option they might be considered more viable.
The problem with gits is that they are stuck between two roles.
They are still nobs and can give things a good pounding in combat, their stats and cost reflect this. People use them as a shooting unit and are then disappointed in their cost/performance solely in that area.
Alas as a close support unit they aren't that great at either.
Upping their base firepower or dropping them to a boy's stat line and focussing them more on shooting is the way to getting more people to use them.
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Post by: Brother SRM
 Jidmah wrote: Ronin wrote:. Lootaz are pretty much the same as IG heavy weapon teams with auto-cannons, and you hardly see anyone fielding those.
They're also cheaper, easier to load up on, and don't take up as much real estate. Autocannons are also a staple of a solid firebase, since they're so good at cracking light armor and heavy infantry.
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Post by: MeanGreenStompa
Multiple nobs to a boyz unit sounds great as you can equip them for different jobs like challenge accepting, vehicle killing etc.
I'd love to see big shoota mobs.
Not sure about a giant squigmonster, unless I can make a mechanized one for my blood axes.
I'd like to see another rank of Boss/warboss introduced, perhaps taking the old warboss down a little bit and making a monster level warboss. Also want to see a multiple options set up for warbosses, opening options according to clan.
REALLY want to see squadrons of battlewagons 1-3...
FNP 6 sound fairly good and doesn't require points when you consider what's already out there from the other armies right now. Our codex is 2 editions old and in need of a boost.
...and I strongly suspect lootas will take the beatstick.
53708
Post by: TedNugent
 MeanGreenStompa wrote:Multiple nobs to a boyz unit sounds great as you can equip them for different jobs like challenge accepting
This is the biggest thing - Nobs need some wargear that will allow them to actually -win- a challenge. Outside of that, I don't see Boyz being assault units any more.
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Post by: MeanGreenStompa
Is it wrong of me to want Ward to write it? I think, despite the fairly over the top fluff and wobbly naming conventions, that his codices are too bad. Or perhaps Kelly can weave his magic, as he did on the last ork codex (which should be the benchmark for codex writing tbh).
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Post by: Kanluwen
Over the top fluff and wobbly naming conventions are perfect for Orks anyways...
Tellyportas? Deff-dreds?
An Ork crashing a motorbike through a Titan?
If that doesn't scream "WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARD!"...I don't know what does.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
 Kanluwen wrote:Over the top fluff and wobbly naming conventions are perfect for Orks anyways...
I dunno. Do we really want the words Squig, Kustom and Waaagh! in front of every weapon or item? Ork Waaagh! Boyz Mob – 55 Points Unit Size: 1 Nob and 9 Waaagh! Boyz. Equipment: Waaagh! Sluggas and Choppa. The Nob has a Waaagh! Slugga and a Kustom Choppa. Options: May add up to 20 additional Waaaaagh! Boyz for +5 points each. One in every full five Waaagh! Boyz can swap their weapons for either a Kustom Rokkit Launcher, Squig Burner or ‘Eavy Waaagh! Shoota for +5 points. The Nob may exchange his Kustom Choppa for a Squig Axe (+5 points), a Waaagh! Claw (+15 poitns) or a Kustom Squig Mace (+10 points). The Nob may exchange his Waaagh! Slugga for a Kustom Kombi-Scorcha, a Kustom Kombi-Rokkit or a Mega-Squig Blaster for +10 points. The Nob can take a Waaagh! Banner for +10 points. The whole unit may take Sqiggbombz for +2 points per model. And on and on we go...
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Post by: cox.dan2
It'll make using sluggas better, especially with choppa updates.
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Post by: Kanluwen
H.B.M.C. wrote: Kanluwen wrote:Over the top fluff and wobbly naming conventions are perfect for Orks anyways...
I dunno. Do we really want the words Squig, Kustom and Waaagh! in front of every weapon or item?
Ork Waaagh! Boyz Mob – 55 Points
Unit Size: 1 Nob and 9 Waaagh! Boyz.
Equipment: Waaagh! Sluggas and Choppa. The Nob has a Waaagh! Slugga and a Kustom Choppa.
Options: May add up to 20 additional Waaaaagh! Boyz for +5 points each.
One in every full five Waaagh! Boyz can swap their weapons for either a Kustom Rokkit Launcher, Squig Burner or ‘Eavy Waaagh! Shoota for +5 points.
The Nob may exchange his Kustom Choppa for a Squig Axe (+5 points), a Waaagh! Claw (+15 poitns) or a Kustom Squig Mace (+10 points). The Nob may exchange his Waaagh! Slugga for a Kustom Kombi-Scorcha, a Kustom Kombi-Rokkit or a Mega-Squig Blaster for +10 points. The Nob can take a Waaagh! Banner for +10 points.
The whole unit may take Sqiggbombz for +2 points per model.
And on and on we go...
No no no.
They'd be armed with Waaaghas! and Dakkas. The Nob would have a Kustom Waaagha! and a Kustom DakkaDakkaDakka.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Sorry, yes.
Dakka would be the word of choice. We should have seen that with the Dakkajet. Soon we'll have Dakkacoptaz, Dakkabuggies and Dakkadakkas.
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Post by: Kanluwen
I see no problems with these wording conventions.
Mr. Ward, full Dakka ahead!
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Post by: Ronin
H.B.M.C. wrote:Sorry, yes.
Dakka would be the word of choice. We should have seen that with the Dakkajet. Soon we'll have Dakkacoptaz, Dakkabuggies and Dakkadakkas.
Needs moar Dakka!
53708
Post by: TedNugent
MeanGreenStompa wrote:Is it wrong of me to want Ward to write it? I think, despite the fairly over the top fluff and wobbly naming conventions, that his codices are too bad. Or perhaps Kelly can weave his magic, as he did on the last ork codex (which should be the benchmark for codex writing tbh).
Good lord...
First, Kelly put far too many useless units into the Ork 4th 'dex. Gitz, Zap Gunz, Weirdboyz, Grotsnik, Looted Wagons, Deff Dreads, Stormboyz....
There's a lot of ideas in the Ork Codex, but only half of the Codex or so is viable. I would like to see more IC choices in particular - and something has to be done about our dependency on the Kustom Force Field. In a Codex that dependent on one piece of wargear - there's almost no alternatives when everything else is just written in to be goofy or fluffy or random tabletop fun.
I don't think either of these guys are model Codex writers. Kelly has inconsistent rules writing that fudges internal balance/points costs. Ward has ridiculous OTT fluff, has little respect for past fluff, and tends towards creating far too many strong units with even stronger synergy. Ward needs to tone it down and Kelly has to focus on tweaking his points costs - if they can do that, and Kelly has shown some promise with more recent Codices (DEldar, and Necrons for Ward), then sure they can write the Codex. But I do not want Ward writing the Ork dex's fluff. Keep him writing Space Marine fanfics.
I would personally prefer a brand new writer for the Ork dex. We need fresh ideas..
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Post by: Ronin
Oh god I hope they dont change the Ork fluff in any way at all. I think it's perfect the way it is.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
TedNugent wrote:First, Kelly put far too many useless units into the Ork 4th 'dex. Gitz, Zap Gunz, Weirdboyz, Grotsnik, Looted Wagons, Deff Dreads, Stormboyz....
Point of order: The units I’ve bolded above were already part of the Ork Codex. You can’t blame Kelly for ‘adding’ them when they were already there to begin with.
I don’t necessarily disagree with your remaining points. That said, the Ork Codex is still a fun Codex, even if a number of units are utterly what-were-they-thinking useless (Tank Bustas, Flash Gits, etc.).
TedNugent wrote:I would personally prefer a brand new writer for the Ork dex. We need fresh ideas..
Well there are only three to choose from unless they bring in someone new, get one of the Warhammer writers to do it, or get Jervis to do it.
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Post by: BunkerBob
I want viable Gitz, as Elites, and Nobz that need more oomph.
8742
Post by: MeanGreenStompa
TedNugent wrote: MeanGreenStompa wrote:Is it wrong of me to want Ward to write it? I think, despite the fairly over the top fluff and wobbly naming conventions, that his codices are too bad. Or perhaps Kelly can weave his magic, as he did on the last ork codex (which should be the benchmark for codex writing tbh).
Good lord...
First, Kelly put far too many useless units into the Ork 4th 'dex. Gitz, Zap Gunz, Weirdboyz, Grotsnik, Looted Wagons, Deff Dreads, Stormboyz....
No. Those units are not useless, there were simply better choices available in the same slots. I've used deff dreads in troop choices in 5th all the edition and recently in 6th, enjoyed a very good number of games using looted wagons with boomguns as part of an ork gunline.
Kelly's codex remained extremely competitive throughout 5th ed and there were several builds; Battlewagon rush, Kan wall, Kult of Speed and green tide, that all had potency and viability at tournament right until 6th arrived and threw assault out with the bath water.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Come off it MGS. You’re going to claim that there aren’t units on that list that aren’t completely useless? Flash Gitz, for example?
To quite Mauleed from many years ago:
“Not all units are created equal. Some are just bad.”
Some of the units in that list are just bad. Not ‘other things are better choices’. Just flat-out bad.
53740
Post by: ZebioLizard2
Kelly is known for creating some very useless units in a list at times. Look at half of space wolves for example, and how poorly Eldar both aged into 5th. Dark Eldar had Grotesques and succubi, as well as the court of the archon, mandrakes, and one or two more.
Kelly is horrible with internal points costs. In the new chaos codex for example a mark of slaanesh is the same on a lord as a mark of nurgle, space wolves in general, venoms in DE and all that.
65651
Post by: lastgoodbye
Eldar-wise he did give us a really effective Ulthwe build for which I was eternally grateful!
39309
Post by: Jidmah
 ZebioLizard2 wrote:Kelly is known for creating some very useless units in a list at times. Look at half of space wolves for example, and how poorly Eldar both aged into 5th. Dark Eldar had Grotesques and succubi, as well as the court of the archon, mandrakes, and one or two more.
Kelly is horrible with internal points costs. In the new chaos codex for example a mark of slaanesh is the same on a lord as a mark of nurgle, space wolves in general, venoms in DE and all that.
So what? Kelly's Ork codex still was competitive and fun. I'll happily take another one of those.
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Post by: Koppo
TedNugent wrote:
Good lord...
First, Kelly put far too many useless units into the Ork 4th 'dex. Gitz, Zap Gunz, Weirdboyz, Grotsnik, Looted Wagons, Deff Dreads, Stormboyz....
There's a lot of ideas in the Ork Codex, but only half of the Codex or so is viable. I would like to see more IC choices in particular - and something has to be done about our dependency on the Kustom Force Field. In a Codex that dependent on one piece of wargear - there's almost no alternatives when everything else is just written in to be goofy or fluffy or random tabletop fun.
I flat don't agree that the Ork Codex is " dependent on one piece of wargear". If you think that, you may be using orks in a too 1 dimensional way. I hardly ever use one, I find it a points sink and a waste of the HQ slot that could be filled by a warboss.
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Post by: ceorron
I have to agree with many here, there are just some flat out bad units in the ork codex.
The ork deff dread (why doesn't it have waaaagh special rule that might have at least meant it would have been good for a laugh). In all the games I played my deff dread in over 5th I don't think it has managed more than 3 kills and has died in all but one game that it has been played, in that game I tabled the opponent and the dread never got a look in and so came up against no resistance. I realise this is a bit of a feat in itself and rather unlucky but it is still funny to think.
Burna boys were over priced in 5th and now assault has been nurffed nigh on useless.
Weirdboys were always there for the fun so don't mind them being not that competitive but something might be useful to bring them up a notch.
Normal slugga boyz could do with a buff, with the new overwatch rules there is no reason to take them over shoota boyz unless you absolutely know you are going to get the charge (not likely to ever happen unless your playing a speed freeks list).
The biggest offender is Flash Gitz, they are both ineffective and expensive, everything else in the codex beats these even the Grot squad holding objectives as they do.
I think in this edition big guns have got somewhat better now they have a save and wounds so wouldn't mind so much about zzap guns.
Also I wouldn't touch stormboys, I get plenty enough success and fun out of the use of stormboys in their current form and I wouldn't want them changed. Also they now get free high init attack on the charge, bonus.
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Post by: ZebioLizard2
Weirdboys were always their for the fun so don't mind them being not that competitive but something might be useful to bring them up a notch.
Don't understand why people always think this, back when they were around (Taken out of the third dex, so second edition) They were pretty powerful, but random (And had the possibility of firing two attacks at once if you choose it right ). The problem is now they are random but ineffective, which is the major issue. Before all their powers were pure attack powers, like Deathwave, Psychic Cannon, and Brainburster beam, which made it easier for them to be specialized as an attack weapon.
With all the various other powers now being randomly rolled on a D6, it's a bit to much to figure out what they are going to do, and so are regulated to being a "Fun" choice.
The ork codex as it is now though is probably the Best codex written out of 40k though, able to age well, and still have multiple types of lists even through to sixth edition, even in the age where they were trying to slim everything down to bland choices Kelly chose to bring back the Shokk Attack Gun, and Weird Boyz, things that are quite orky. Sure there's issues, but it's probably the best out of the written codex.
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Post by: the_ferrett
Flashgits are useful, but the problem they have is A) the popular lists are Heavy support orrientated. and B) People tend to want to use flashgits like everything else in the codex: by taking them at full strength and shoving everything on them.
From experience, they work best as a 6 man unit with 2 upgrades (depending on what you have) that's part distraction, part find X and kill it. Their range means you begin shooting ~turn 2 and you have to shoot then assault. The shooting alone doesn't really work for them.
Weirdboys: I require upgrades. Zebio does get the powers choice right... ish, except when you synergise it with dakkajets you start to get something going.
Zzapp guns: Question. If you have lootas (and you do) and you don't have AV14 on the field.... why are these guys being shot at tanks (unless there are 11 tanks on the field, then you are forgiven). I find these guys are anti high armors save. I think the auto shaken is a bit of a distraction myself. That said if they were more reliably high Strength then I might use them on tanks more.
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Post by: ceorron
ZebioLizard2 wrote:
The ork codex as it is now though is probably the Best codex written out of 40k though, able to age well, and still have multiple types of lists even through to sixth edition, even in the age where they were trying to slim everything down to bland choices Kelly chose to bring back the Shokk Attack Gun, and Weird Boyz, things that are quite orky. Sure there's issues, but it's probably the best out of the written codex.
I couldn't agree more, the ork codex is great, really great. I'm happy to have it for a lot longer. It is funny well written and non of these issue can't be overcome. Just some of the units could well spend most of 6th on the back burner.
There are some units that have jumped out of obscurity, and possibly some into obscurity with 6th. The biggest jumpers IMO are Meganobz they went from worst elite in the codex to now topping normal Nobz point for point with the 2+ and no longer moving at 2D6" a turn! Also big gunz and bikes are better each getting some core rule buffs.
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Post by: Anung Un Rama
Dribble Joy wrote:Upping their base firepower or dropping them to a boy's stat line and focussing them more on shooting is the way to getting more people to use them.
I like the idea that they're Nobs who can afford big guns. Makes them more different from other shooty squads. But they are too expensive for what they do.
Kanluwen wrote:An Ork crashing a motorbike through a Titan?
I loved that bit.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
I tell you what would be nice - Ork shooting units that can actually shoot. I'm tired of 40K racial traits being distilled until they become the only real defining feature of every member of that race. Orks are traditionally bad shots, but it stands to reason that some of them would like shooting things enough that they'd start to get good at it, and then that those Orks would congregate together.
I'm not saying we need BS4 Ork snipers with re-rollable shooting attacks, but the odd shooty Ork unit at BS3 wouldn't go astray (Tankbustas especially, Kommandos as well). Not every Ork need be BS2.
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Post by: Ronin
H.B.M.C. wrote:I tell you what would be nice - Ork shooting units that can actually shoot. I'm tired of 40K racial traits being distilled until they become the only real defining feature of every member of that race. Orks are traditionally bad shots, but it stands to reason that some of them would like shooting things enough that they'd start to get good at it, and then that those Orks would congregate together.
I'm not saying we need BS4 Ork snipers with re-rollable shooting attacks, but the odd shooty Ork unit at BS3 wouldn't go astray (Tankbustas especially, Kommandos as well). Not every Ork need be BS2.
Grots fulfill that niche. There just needs to be more grot units that can actually pull their weight other than as meatshields/minesweepers/objective holders. If Orks wanted to be better shots, they'd just get more dakka.
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Post by: KingCracker
 ceorron wrote:I have to agree with many here, there are just some flat out bad units in the ork codex.
The ork deff dread (why doesn't it have waaaagh special rule that might have at least meant it would have been good for a laugh). In all the games I played my deff dread in over 5th I don't think it has managed more than 3 kills and has died in all but one game that it has been played, in that game I tabled the opponent and the dread never got a look in and so came up against no resistance. I realise this is a bit of a feat in itself and rather unlucky but it is still funny to think.
Burna boys were over priced in 5th and now assault has been nurffed nigh on useless.
Weirdboys were always there for the fun so don't mind them being not that competitive but something might be useful to bring them up a notch.
Normal slugga boyz could do with a buff, with the new overwatch rules there is no reason to take them over shoota boyz unless you absolutely know you are going to get the charge (not likely to ever happen unless your playing a speed freeks list).
The biggest offender is Flash Gitz, they are both ineffective and expensive, everything else in the codex beats these even the Grot squad holding objectives as they do.
I think in this edition big guns have got somewhat better now they have a save and wounds so wouldn't mind so much about zzap guns.
Also I wouldn't touch stormboys, I get plenty enough success and fun out of the use of stormboys in their current form and I wouldn't want them changed. Also they now get free high init attack on the charge, bonus.
Firstly, I used dreads a few times in 5th, and usually they worked rather well for me, I think it just comes down to everyone loved their Kans so Dreads lost outright. Now in 6th, yea, thanks to grenades dreads are shaky at best, seems like EVERYONE can kill them.
And am I reading this right, are you saying that Burnas suck now? And were over costed in 5th? Erm......yea...tell that to the ENTIRE UNITS that were wiped by a drive by burning. And yes, assaulting did take a hit so far in 6th for Orks, but if your assaulting with burnas, something you shouldnt really have done in 5th either, your doing it wrong. Burnas are STILL meant to just drop a template, multiply it by 10+ and laugh as you yet again, wipe an entire unit from the board.
I think we will get a great codex if either Kelly or Ward writes it. Kelly did an excellent job on it currently, obviously its 2 editions old, and we can STILL kick your ass with it. And Ward has wrote some incredibly balanced and good codices. Granted he has also wrote some steamers like the GK dex IMHO, that just veered way off, but thats another story. I think the current SM dex is one of the most balanced and well written codices in the entire game. Both writers have the talent to do the Orks justice.
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Post by: ZebioLizard2
H.B.M.C. wrote:I tell you what would be nice - Ork shooting units that can actually shoot. I'm tired of 40K racial traits being distilled until they become the only real defining feature of every member of that race. Orks are traditionally bad shots, but it stands to reason that some of them would like shooting things enough that they'd start to get good at it, and then that those Orks would congregate together.
I'm not saying we need BS4 Ork snipers with re-rollable shooting attacks, but the odd shooty Ork unit at BS3 wouldn't go astray (Tankbustas especially, Kommandos as well). Not every Ork need be BS2.
There actually used to be a BS4 ork, the Bad Moons Warboss Nazdreg Ug Urdgrub. Bring him back and give flash gits BS3 and it'd work okay.
I'd prefer Tankbusters to get better shooting when it comes to hitting vehicles however, with kommando's getting better shooting when getting closer to the enemy. They aren't really dedicated to shooting, just at what they are good at.
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Post by: Charles Rampant
I don't see any reason that you cannot have Orks with BS3. Gretchin tend to fulfil the more comic relief parts of the army list, which is why I'd more expect to see them continue to be chaff units, although I'll grant that I love the little blighters and would particularly like to see more 'Grot assistant' style stuff so that you had more of them wandering around after the warbosses. Orks, meanwhile, are the mainstay of the list (hence the name) and so should really dominate the core choices. Remember that Orks used to be BS3 WS3, and while I don't suggest that this be army wide or anything, having squads of boys who revert to that statline* would be neither impossible in fluff nor broken on the tabletop.
* Feral Orks are, IIRC, meant to be this way - somehow feral = more technologically inclined in 40k...
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Post by: ZebioLizard2
Remember that Orks used to be BS3 WS3, and while I don't suggest that this be army wide or anything, having squads of boys who revert to that statline* would be neither impossible in fluff nor broken on the tabletop.
Ork boys did use to be this, Warbosses could actually get up to WS/BS6 back in 2nd.
Course they also had "GoffikRok Bands" and "Ork Robots" So take what you will.
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Post by: MeanGreenStompa
H.B.M.C. wrote:Come off it MGS. You’re going to claim that there aren’t units on that list that aren’t completely useless? Flash Gitz, for example?
To quite Mauleed from many years ago:
“Not all units are created equal. Some are just bad.”
Some of the units in that list are just bad. Not ‘other things are better choices’. Just flat-out bad.
Nope, Flash Gits aren't a bad choice, they just compete with better choices - in HS, with wagons, kans, now big guns etc. In low points cost games, they were pretty good, having a foot in both camps. In most games, above 1k, it's far better to take single purpose units but in low end, I believe that they fulfill a nice dual action capability. They also allow you to dress your orks up as pirates and that's nothing but win in my mind.
Taking a deff dread in a troops slot was great, as long as it didn't compete for a HS slot. Had mine sit in locked combat with a daemon prince for 4 rounds of combat, taking the bugger out of the game effectively. They should cut the cost of them by about 30% though.
Fast Attack in the Ork codex was up for grabs honestly, until the arrival of the flyers, I used stormboyz a couple of times on tau and imperial guard and they did precisely what I wanted them to do, show up near the opposite line (zagstruk) and start mangling gunlines. If they removed the 'wacky' casualty rules, slightly lowered the cost and increased the mob maximum size to 30, then I'd probably take them every time.
If you want to talk about the difference between good and not so good, for me, it's to be found in the elites, where lootas became the ultimate no brainer, followed by burnas (in an opentop vehicle) and nobs (which should be made troops permanently) - Something should be done about tankbustas and kommandoz. and also in the HQ, where the Weirdboyz need improving powerwise (bring back possessed warp'eadz!!) and the special characters are all a bit meh.
I think that marks it as a codex of it's time, stuck between the oldest codices with few named characters and recent ones full of supercharacters. Automatically Appended Next Post: Giving walkers/vehicles their own KFFs might be an idea, as a vehicle upgrade instead of the big mek. I'd like to start fielding warbosses again but won't whilst meks provide utility via KFFs and firepower with SAGs.
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Post by: Anung Un Rama
MeanGreenStompa wrote:If you want to talk about the difference between good and not so good, for me, it's to be found in the elites, where lootas became the ultimate no brainer, followed by burnas (in an opentop vehicle)...
I'll have to give that one a try.
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Post by: KingCracker
Youve never tried burnas in a BW?! Where have you been Anung? Its the new black. Its the bees knees, the cats pajamas and so on
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Post by: BunkerBob
Battlewagons, bringing 15 powerfists with AV14 to a monolith near you!
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Post by: streamdragon
H.B.M.C. wrote:TedNugent wrote:First, Kelly put far too many useless units into the Ork 4th 'dex. Gitz, Zap Gunz, Weirdboyz, Grotsnik, Looted Wagons, Deff Dreads, Stormboyz....
Point of order: The units I’ve bolded above were already part of the Ork Codex. You can’t blame Kelly for ‘adding’ them when they were already there to begin with.
Weirdboyz and Looted Wagons weren't new either I thought? I mean, I have the old "Foot of Mork (or possibly Gork)" template from Dark Millenium, so surely they weren't really 'added' so much as 'put back in'?
And I definitely remember looted vehicles in the prior codex? Perhaps not with the same rules...
And as a second point I regularly field looted wagon with 'ard case, a boomgun and 2 rokkits. Cheap enough, fairly deadly, somehow a great fire magnet. Of course, I'm not a tournament player or anything and regularly get my butt kicked, so YMMV.
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Post by: Grimgob
I want a gosh darn Waaaaaaaagh! rule that actually functions in 6th edition. How they can let an edition change nerf a popular armys only army wide special rule is beyond me. Waaaagh! oh what thats nice I get twce as many shots from my flier, but what about the boyz? Oh they can reroll their run roll and not assault... great!
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Post by: ZebioLizard2
 streamdragon wrote: H.B.M.C. wrote:TedNugent wrote:First, Kelly put far too many useless units into the Ork 4th 'dex. Gitz, Zap Gunz, Weirdboyz, Grotsnik, Looted Wagons, Deff Dreads, Stormboyz....
Point of order: The units I’ve bolded above were already part of the Ork Codex. You can’t blame Kelly for ‘adding’ them when they were already there to begin with.
Weirdboyz and Looted Wagons weren't new either I thought? I mean, I have the old "Foot of Mork (or possibly Gork)" template from Dark Millenium, so surely they weren't really 'added' so much as 'put back in'?
And I definitely remember looted vehicles in the prior codex? Perhaps not with the same rules...
And as a second point I regularly field looted wagon with 'ard case, a boomgun and 2 rokkits. Cheap enough, fairly deadly, somehow a great fire magnet. Of course, I'm not a tournament player or anything and regularly get my butt kicked, so YMMV.
Weirdboys are from 2nd (Along with shokk) Looted wagons have Always been in, but this is their new incarnation without being able to customize anything like a trukk or any imperial based vehicle. Now it's specific..and lame.
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Post by: MrMoustaffa
 Grimgob wrote:I want a gosh darn Waaaaaaaagh! rule that actually functions in 6th edition. How they can let an edition change nerf a popular armys only army wide special rule is beyond me. Waaaagh! oh what thats nice I get twce as many shots from my flier, but what about the boyz? Oh they can reroll their run roll and not assault... great!
Fleet also allows you to reroll one or both dice for your charge distance, so at least it still does something.
Better than nothing at least.
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Post by: Kharrak
Considering the nature of the Waaaagh in the fluff, have one round where the Orks are really nasty. If we follow how the Ork flyers work on a Waaagh... all infantry gain fleet, +1 strength, and all their weapons are counted as twin linked?
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Post by: Koppo
ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Weirdboys are from 2nd (Along with shokk) Looted wagons have Always been in, but this is their new incarnation without being able to customize anything like a trukk or any imperial based vehicle. Now it's specific..and lame.
The Rouge Trader era books "'Ere we go", "Waaaagh! Da Orks" and "Freebootaz" put these units (along with Plusa Rokkits, Bubble Chuckas, Hop Splat field guns etc) in 1st edition
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Post by: ZebioLizard2
Koppo wrote: ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Weirdboys are from 2nd (Along with shokk) Looted wagons have Always been in, but this is their new incarnation without being able to customize anything like a trukk or any imperial based vehicle. Now it's specific..and lame.
The Rouge Trader era books "'Ere we go", "Waaaagh! Da Orks" and "Freebootaz" put these units (along with Plusa Rokkits, Bubble Chuckas, Hop Splat field guns etc) in 1st edition
The furthest books back I have are from 2nd, so I cannot really tell if anything was from there.
Considering the nature of the Waaaagh in the fluff, have one round where the Orks are really nasty. If we follow how the Ork flyers work on a Waaagh... all infantry gain fleet, +1 strength, and all their weapons are counted as twin linked?
Waaagh! Itself though has changed drastically between the versions however, 3rd had it doubling Initiative, fourth makes it boost run/assault speed, but I think it shouldn't be based around a "Call once" target, but rather something a large enough squad can naturally do (Maybe instead of being WAAAGH! it could be an 'Ere we go, 'Ere we go, 'Ere we go type), with a specific WAAAGH! being granted by a Warboss, due to the fact that a Boss is big, in charge, and pretty much the strongest most concentrated WAAAGH! there is for orks.
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Post by: marv335
ceorron wrote:
Burna boys were over priced in 5th and now assault has been nurffed nigh on useless.
I'm sorry, What?
You have seen the "Wall of Death" rule?
Plus the drive by flaming is as valid as ever.
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Post by: Billagio
Id like to see kommandos be useful again. Outflanking ghazzy wherever I want always made me smile in 5th when I see the look on my opponents face.
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Post by: Goresaw
I'd like to see a return to 3rd ed "mob rule" for trukk boyz. Taking small mobs is stupid because the moment orks lose fearless, they're gone. I'd make trukk boyz miles better.
Wierdboys are quite neat now if you take a dakkajet heavy list. Getting more WAAGHs can be hilariously deadly for your opponent if your dakkajets are repeatedly spitting double the amount of death. The hard part though is giving up your HQ's to get them. Meks are still really good (especially if you play where the KFF gives a cover save to ANY unit near the mek, even enemies or by default even desperate allies).
On one hand, I agree that I wish that some orks would get a BS upgrade, but the problem is, their point cost already accounts for their poor balistic skill. If you gave shoota boys a BS 3, good god... Lootaz are only 15 points a piece because of their bad BS (remember, you're basically paying 15 points per model for a unit of 15 autocannons). I'd rather have more bodies on the table than more effective shooting. Orks really aren't a super killy army, but they are a super durable army.
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Post by: Charles Rampant
I'm not sure that I rate the idea of taking Weirdboyz to boost Dakkajets. Mine gets shot down almost immediately in the majority of my games, so rarely gets to fire more than twice. So you can't use them turn 1, turn 2 they arrive and waaagh, turn 3 you maybe get a waaagh on the weirdboy... it all seems a bit convoluted, and not really worth the effort.
The "Orks can't shoot but are cheap" thing isn't always true. Deffkoptas, for example: people rave about them, but mine never hit, and they are not cheap. At 225 for a squad of five with rokkits, not being able to reliably destroy a rhino (35 points) in a round of shooting is an indicator that they suck. A unit that doesn't die very easily isn't much help if it doesn't do any damage, either. This is our problem with vehicles at range; our units with guns capable of damaging them don't hit often enough to have a decent chance of being worthwhile.
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Post by: MeanGreenStompa
Was reading Ere We Go! today and the first ork army lists it contained... now, if they brought back Warboss/Warlord retinues, with oddboyz included in them, now that would be a great boost. Like the orkoid version of the royal court or court of the archon.
42002
Post by: Kharrak
Charles Rampant wrote:I'm not sure that I rate the idea of taking Weirdboyz to boost Dakkajets. Mine gets shot down almost immediately in the majority of my games, so rarely gets to fire more than twice. So you can't use them turn 1, turn 2 they arrive and waaagh, turn 3 you maybe get a waaagh on the weirdboy... it all seems a bit convoluted, and not really worth the effort.
It's actually a fun tactic - weirdboys themselves are good fun. Not seen it work that well competitively, though.
Charles Rampant wrote:The "Orks can't shoot but are cheap" thing isn't always true. Deffkoptas, for example: people rave about them, but mine never hit, and they are not cheap. At 225 for a squad of five with rokkits, not being able to reliably destroy a rhino (35 points) in a round of shooting is an indicator that they suck. A unit that doesn't die very easily isn't much help if it doesn't do any damage, either. This is our problem with vehicles at range; our units with guns capable of damaging them don't hit often enough to have a decent chance of being worthwhile.
That's surprising, considering they have a slightly better hit chance than bs3. You should generally be getting about 3 hits per round of shooting - remember, they are twin-linked.
You're still paying 45pts for a toughness 5, 2 wound scout jetbike with a twin-linked str8, ap3 weapon. That's 1 point less than a nob in a unit of boyz.
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Post by: orkybenji
Charles Rampant wrote:I'm not sure that I rate the idea of taking Weirdboyz to boost Dakkajets. Mine gets shot down almost immediately in the majority of my games, so rarely gets to fire more than twice. So you can't use them turn 1, turn 2 they arrive and waaagh, turn 3 you maybe get a waaagh on the weirdboy... it all seems a bit convoluted, and not really worth the effort.
The "Orks can't shoot but are cheap" thing isn't always true. Deffkoptas, for example: people rave about them, but mine never hit, and they are not cheap. At 225 for a squad of five with rokkits, not being able to reliably destroy a rhino (35 points) in a round of shooting is an indicator that they suck. A unit that doesn't die very easily isn't much help if it doesn't do any damage, either. This is our problem with vehicles at range; our units with guns capable of damaging them don't hit often enough to have a decent chance of being worthwhile.
You need to take three jets and two warpheads. Hope for waaaghs, meltashots, and deep strikes (attatch with shoota boys).
I agree on deffkopters. The internet loves them, but mine almost always woefully underperform. I've had groups of them fail at killing a rhino too often. I guess they just aren't for me.
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Post by: Charles Rampant
One game I played in, 3 Orks vs 3 Imperial, we started turn 1 with a grand charge of all our Deffkoptas, of which we had about 13 or 14. They all shot, they all charged. As I recall, they destroyed one Hydra, removed the autocannon on another Hydra, and shook a couple of chimaeras. Looked awesome though.
I'm not sure what it is about them. But 45 points for a single-shot attack that doesn't hit very reliably, and which will fail to penetrate armour quite often as well, isn't all that great. A unit nob is actually good at his given task. Bear in mind that each Deffkopta costs more than a rhino, that two of them are the same as a battlewagon, and that three are more expensive than all but Land Raiders in the smurf list. It takes a serious dent out of my list's points total to run a squad of them, equalling entire mobs of boyz, and I've never felt that it was a worthwhile trade.
They are good for killing crisis suits though, I've found. Both in shooting and in melee.
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Post by: tarnish
A Unit nob is great at his task?..... Then why do the ones i use always get challenged by perky marines and killed before they can do any damage?
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Post by: Dribble Joy
A nob should be able to take on most sergeants in a challenge, or at least draw if they both have a PF. 'Eavy armour might be of use these days.
You can of course position the nob so that he can't be challenged, but then can strike when he piles in.
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Post by: Leigen_Zero
MeanGreenStompa wrote:Was reading Ere We Go! today and the first ork army lists it contained... now, if they brought back Warboss/Warlord retinues, with oddboyz included in them, now that would be a great boost. Like the orkoid version of the royal court or court of the archon.
This, oh-so-much-this.
I don't know the rules but if you take a cron court, can you split it up and chuck the teks/lords in different units? If so, imagine taking a retinue of painboyz and chucking them in boyz mobs ala BA sang priests! 
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Post by: KingCracker
Goresaw wrote:I'd like to see a return to 3rd ed "mob rule" for trukk boyz. Taking small mobs is stupid because the moment orks lose fearless, they're gone. I'd make trukk boyz miles better.
Wierdboys are quite neat now if you take a dakkajet heavy list. Getting more WAAGHs can be hilariously deadly for your opponent if your dakkajets are repeatedly spitting double the amount of death. The hard part though is giving up your HQ's to get them. Meks are still really good (especially if you play where the KFF gives a cover save to ANY unit near the mek, even enemies or by default even desperate allies).
On one hand, I agree that I wish that some orks would get a BS upgrade, but the problem is, their point cost already accounts for their poor balistic skill. If you gave shoota boys a BS 3, good god... Lootaz are only 15 points a piece because of their bad BS (remember, you're basically paying 15 points per model for a unit of 15 autocannons). I'd rather have more bodies on the table than more effective shooting. Orks really aren't a super killy army, but they are a super durable army.
MeanGreenStompa wrote:Was reading Ere We Go! today and the first ork army lists it contained... now, if they brought back Warboss/Warlord retinues, with oddboyz included in them, now that would be a great boost. Like the orkoid version of the royal court or court of the archon.
These would both be badass. Mob rules AND a retinue, like the old school retinue type rules would be supreme AND help us dramatically in challenges. And everyone would HATE mobbing up, except any Ork player of course
Speaking of challenges, whos willing to bet we are getting some type of chart where the more challenges we win, the more "pain tokens" we end up getting?
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Post by: WvLopp
As far as the kotpas go, I use 2 squads of 2. I run them up the flanks. Most people I play against go after to koptas the first turn, leaving my boyz and wagons alone. I love them.
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Post by: Jidmah
I'm still hoping for looting wargear from challenged opponents.
Something I can see happening is boyz(meks, runtherds) winning challenges turning into nobz, nobz(big meks, flash gits, weirdboyz) winning challenges turning into warbosses. Orks get stronger, tougher and smarter when fighting, so that would fit fluff perfectly.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
That could be interesting. Each time you defeat an opponent in a challenge you roll randomly cinematicaly to determine what you get from them.
"I got... a Bolt Pistol! Y... yay?"
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
Jidmah wrote:I'm still hoping for looting wargear from challenged opponents.
Something I can see happening is boyz(meks, runtherds) winning challenges turning into nobz, nobz(big meks, flash gits, weirdboyz) winning challenges turning into warbosses. Orks get stronger, tougher and smarter when fighting, so that would fit fluff perfectly.
but if you do that you'd need to add in a chance that an orc not actually fighting in a turn would downgrade, ie nobz turning into boyz etc
cinematatastical (no really)
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Post by: ZebioLizard2
 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Jidmah wrote:I'm still hoping for looting wargear from challenged opponents.
Something I can see happening is boyz(meks, runtherds) winning challenges turning into nobz, nobz(big meks, flash gits, weirdboyz) winning challenges turning into warbosses. Orks get stronger, tougher and smarter when fighting, so that would fit fluff perfectly.
but if you do that you'd need to add in a chance that an orc not actually fighting in a turn would downgrade, ie nobz turning into boyz etc
cinematatastical (no really)
That..Doesn't happen, boyz don't turn to nobz either straight up, it takes TIME for that to happen. This isn't chaos where a god can suddenly grant them a mutation mid combat.
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Post by: KingCracker
H.B.M.C. wrote:That could be interesting. Each time you defeat an opponent in a challenge you roll randomly cinematicaly to determine what you get from them.
"I got... a Bolt Pistol! Y... yay?"
And thats how it would happen.
"AWWW FUDGE YEA!! I kicked that powermaul wielding Chaplains ASS!"
*rolls on chart*
"Snake eyes.........great, he turns into a.... grot?
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Post by: Jidmah
Nah, at the very least he would explode. Everything we've got explodes on a snake eyes - blitza bommers, SAGs, warpheads...
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Post by: Kanluwen
H.B.M.C. wrote:That could be interesting. Each time you defeat an opponent in a challenge you roll randomly cinematicaly to determine what you get from them.
"I got... a Bolt Pistol! Y... yay?"
It's cinematastic!
Infinity has something similar in the form of the "Booty" skill, which is perfectly named for Orks to loot...
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Post by: ShatteredBlade
Kanluwen wrote: H.B.M.C. wrote:That could be interesting. Each time you defeat an opponent in a challenge you roll randomly cinematicaly to determine what you get from them.
"I got... a Bolt Pistol! Y... yay?"
It's cinematastic!
Infinity has something similar in the form of the "Booty" skill, which is perfectly named for Orks to loot...
I do not want to know what happens when a Warboss gets my Huskblade.
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Post by: Charles Rampant
Comedy ensues.
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Post by: cormadepanda
Hmm, looting wargear sounds good. I think the ork player should simply choose the weapon and gain its rules. IE nod slays a chaos warlord, nob jacks the gak outta deamon weapon. (now has deamon weapon with assoicated rules) + normal wargear.
I can sense that if we do get a challenge chart it be something like Blood Lust -
per kill decrease a FNP save to a min of 2+ or something stupid ect.
Hopefully that chart be small.
Would like to see lootas/burnas and possible other fun things compressed into special boyz as a general elite choice.
Which would be a standard boy that is then kitted out with say a loota gun, burna, stealth-infiltrate, rockit launchers, ect. That way you can mix and match and have things like infiltrating Tank bustas - nothing quite like preliminary tank killing turn 1 with bomb squigs.
Would love to have alternate Nob weapons beside a power kawl and big choopa - things like plasma guns, heavier weapons then a normal boy could carry ie plaskannon deff ray ect. Also alternate melee weapons like powa choppa, powa clobbera, ect.
Hopefully that nob wish would effect boy nobz as well.
Love to see the option to take multiple ard boyz. Yay i can have a goff army again. Love to see new units as well. Like new tanks, or something of that sort. Perhaps even a flying transport and you can have wing boys.
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Post by: KingCracker
Jidmah wrote:Nah, at the very least he would explode. Everything we've got explodes on a snake eyes - blitza bommers, SAGs, warpheads...
That is a valid point. The Ork would most definitely explode
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Post by: matphat
I would like to see a new rumor that said we weren't waiting another year or so to see a new book.
=(
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Post by: KingCracker
Well just thinking about whats coming out in the next year....yea we arnt in that line up. But I hear ya, I wouldnt mind some new Ork love
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Post by: MeanGreenStompa
Others have waited longer and I don't deny them their turn. Poor Tau, Sisters, Eldar and even BT players need their time in the sun as well.
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Post by: Grimgob
with all these rumors I think they will suprise everyone and release Orks late next year before a more deserving codex (they have before and often with other codexes).
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Post by: Jidmah
MeanGreenStompa wrote:Others have waited longer and I don't deny them their turn. Poor Tau, Sisters, Eldar and even BT players need their time in the sun as well.
Uh, I don't care? I don't play those But seriously, considering that they drop a codex every three months, and the IoM/Xenos pattern... 2013 Q1 Dark Angels 2013 Q2 Tau 2013 Q3 Black Templars 2013 Q4 Eldar 2014 Q1 Sisters 2014 Q2 Waaagh! Summer See? Everybody happy. Though they will probably do Vanilla Marines instead of Sisters. GW hates Sisters even more than Tyranids. DISCLAIMER: Completely baseless speculation on my side.
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Post by: Graphite
Utter wishlisting thought it is, I'd like to see "looted vehicle" be an upgrade rather than one generic vehicle with lacklustre stats. So you could make your battlewagon a looted vehicle, or indeed a trukk. Keep the "Don't press dat!" rule but give it some bonus. Extra levels of stealth during nightfighting springs to mind, as the enemy doesn't shoot at the non-orky shape in case it's one of theirs.
I'd also like to see an honest to Gork tank, rather than the battlewagon.
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Post by: Charles Rampant
I'm liking the Warboss retinue idea, but I can see every army justifying that rule, and it is a Necron/Dark Eldar thing. But if it did come in, that could be really cool - one squad of Nobz (like a command squad) which can have 0-3 of Meks, Docs, Weirdboyz, Luftantz (a midway boss) and grotknowwots that you can distribute between mobs.
As I've said before, I'd like more Grot assistant elements. I love having the grots and squigs following my warboss around! Maybe change attack squigs into things that work like bomb squigs but do anti-infantry duties - release them, they go for nearest enemy unit (like bomb squig does), does three STR 6 AP- rending hits onto them, is removed from game. Gretchin assistants that let the warboss 'remember da plan' and reroll reserves and move a unit D6" in the shooting phase in addition to shooting ("NOT THERE YOU GITZ!"). Or what about an assistant ("scapegrot") that can be blamed for any failures in the army, picked up and then thrown at an enemy unit that just wiped out an Ork unit within 12" to do a small blast marker.
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Post by: KingCracker
I dont want to wait till 2014 to get some new codex action!!!! Im hoping they screw over a few armies and push us further up. Orks are a pretty popular xenos army, so I could see them do this
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Post by: pixelpusher
Sisters and Tau can wait since it's just a miniscule fraction of the fanbase that plays those two armies.
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Post by: MeanGreenStompa
 pixelpusher wrote:Sisters and Tau can wait since it's just a miniscule fraction of the fanbase that plays those two armies.
By that logic everyone can wait a DE 10+ years whilst we just concentrate on an endless rotation of SM armies as they massively outsell any xenos/nonmeq armies.
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Post by: pixelpusher
Fine with me as long as I get my ork codex ASAP.
You are not supposed to reply with logic to trollbaits that obvious.
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Post by: ZebioLizard2
I'm liking the Warboss retinue idea, but I can see every army justifying that rule, and it is a Necron/Dark Eldar thing. But if it did come in, that could be really cool - one squad of Nobz (like a command squad) which can have 0-3 of Meks, Docs, Weirdboyz, Luftantz (a midway boss) and grotknowwots that you can distribute between mobs.
Considering it was an ork thing first, later eldar (Warlocks are rather like the example as well).
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Post by: KingCracker
Yea, really according to Ork fluff and whatnot, a mob running around trying to prove themselves to the boss just makes sense. And funny enough, the LoS! rule makes that even funnier, because you know rather then a "SIR!!! INCOMING!! LOOK OUT!!" for Orks itd be closer to "GAH!!! BOLTA ROUNDS!! err.....GET OVA 'ERE ZOGBRAIN!" *snatches up some unsuspecting nob/boy/grot*
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Post by: GalacticZ
I hate how people are complaining about the fnp rumors based on dice. I am sorry if you have to wait a extra minute or two to roll my dice, not everyone wants to play spessmaweens. Orks are fluffed up to be much more survivable than they are on the table. FnP would make this believable. Also, if they get 6+ FnP and keep T4, then they will most likely lose their t-shirt save, and to that I say 'good riddance'.
Don't get me wrong, t-shirt save is great when I make them. I get to laugh at my opponents and dance around, but I'd much rather have a 6+ FnP on classic boys. Also this means that Hard Boys become much more badass too.
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Post by: SgtSixkilla
 GalacticZ wrote:Orks are fluffed up to be much more survivable than they are on the table. FnP would make this believable.
^ This. I've always been annoyed by how weakling Orks are on the tabletop compared to how badass they are in the fluff. They should have S4 base, I3 (at LEAST), but failing that, a 6+ FNP on all Ork type units would be acceptable.
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Post by: ArmageddonBorn
I know that there's no real info on this, but what do you all think the Flying Fortress is going to be? I'm hoping we're getting a heavy support flying transport!!! Battle Wagon on Wings please!!!!! What do you all think it might be?
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Post by: happygolucky
 ArmageddonBorn wrote:I know that there's no real info on this, but what do you all think the Flying Fortress is going to be? I'm hoping we're getting a heavy support flying transport!!! Battle Wagon on Wings please!!!!! What do you all think it might be?
Add Tesla coils and then it will look even better  ...
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Post by: ArmageddonBorn
squadrons of 3, 35pts per model. there we go (I can dream right?)
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Post by: skyfi
I was thinking something like a storm raven or flying BW stats 14/12/10
Hopefully with transport capacity 20 + a dredd or 12 + 3 killa kans, or 12 + 6 bikes or something like that
Heck we could hope for 30...
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Post by: ArmageddonBorn
yeah. well, realistically speaking, I am hoping for a flying BW with BW AVs. I can understand if there are some pro/con conditions, and maybe we can swap out transport cap for a bigger gun or something. I'm just hoping I can populate my heavy support slots with flyers too. Then if they can just give me an HQ that has FOC-manip that allows me to take deff koptas as troops - all flying orks woohoo! May not be the most competitive list, but boy will it be fun!
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Post by: happygolucky
Tbh If we get a flying BW I will be painting it as Astrotrian... For those who are not in the know I paint all my ork tanks as G1 Transformers (just because everyone want optimous prime on their team)
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Post by: Begel Dverl
I'm just going to throw this out here, but....
What if we get giant Orks for the gribbly-monster-thing we're scheduled to have?
I mean, it's not uncommon to see giant Orks. There were a few named ones in the Heresy and you see mentions of larger Orks poking up sporadically through the fluff.
And, for justification, the big lugs are too stupid to think above that of livestock or an animal, which is why they aren't leading their own boyz.
I'm just saying this because I want to use a Mountain King in my army
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Post by: SgtSixkilla
I'd love a MC HQ, with tons of options, kind of like the Daemon Princes of the Emo Marines codex.
Also, a revision of the Waaagh benefits. Bonus to initiative and 6"+d6" charge distance, for example. Right now, Waaagh is almost just for flavor.
I'd like to see propa flash gitz too. The ones in DoW2 Elite mod are awesome. And talking about dakka, it'd be sweet if they made some changes to boyz. For example allowing multiple burnaz for slugga boyz and multiple big shootas for shoota boyz.
And if we got some better armor choices, that'd be cool.
If we got these things and nothing else, I'd have been content.
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Post by: Charles Rampant
I think that I'd be totally on board with some kind of either MC or mega-deffdread. I just think that the MCs that Tyranids and Daemons put out are a nightmare for my ladz to face, as I don't own lootas (which I don't regard as particularly interesting or fluffy) and I'd like to be able to at least try to handle threats in melee, the supposed Ork-centric phase.
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Post by: Anung Un Rama
I'd love to see a huge transport flyer.
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Post by: Afrodactyl
Id like to see an ork landa. A big, drop pod esque transport with room for twenty, and becomes an av12/12/12 building once it touches down.
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Post by: happygolucky
 Afrodactyl wrote:Id like to see an ork landa. A big, drop pod esque transport with room for twenty, and becomes an av12/12/12 building once it touches down.
That would probabaly most likely be an Ork Rok... except it would probs be AV 10 all-round and will apear as a large pie-plate Str 10 AP2 (This would be called meteioric decent), then place it as the Rok ...
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Post by: Anung Un Rama
A Rok doesn't sound like a very interesting model to build and kitbash though.
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Post by: battlematt
@Charles, Lootaz aren't fluffy? I think they are right in line with blood axe fluff. I am working on a fw mega dread, I would love to see more walkers they make such a motley force.
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Post by: ZebioLizard2
There's plenty of fancy looking Rok's built in BFG, just imagine Asteroid mixed with Ship.
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Post by: ShatteredBlade
A fine cast model that is the best in the industry! That'll be $60.00 please.
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Post by: carmachu
MeanGreenStompa wrote: pixelpusher wrote:Sisters and Tau can wait since it's just a miniscule fraction of the fanbase that plays those two armies.
By that logic everyone can wait a DE 10+ years whilst we just concentrate on an endless rotation of SM armies as they massively outsell any xenos/nonmeq armies.
Dont we do that already?
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Post by: Rainbow Dash
Its hard to mess up orks, i mean they ruined orcs and goblins but orks are much more popular...
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Post by: ZebioLizard2
 Rainbow Dash wrote:Its hard to mess up orks, i mean they ruined orcs and goblins but orks are much more popular...
Ruined Orcs and Goblins how? I still use that army with great success, a good mid-tier codex.
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Post by: Morathi's Darkest Sin
 battlematt wrote:@Charles, Lootaz aren't fluffy? I think they are right in line with Deff Skulls fluff.
Fixed that for you. Although to be fair if he has Goff's I can see his point. Right now my main two wants model wise are plastic Buggies and Manz, anything new in general will be a bonus. New unit types/rules entries that would interest me in particular are teleporta Orks, finally taking advantage of the Orkamedies story, and the long awaited return of Madboyz. 
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Post by: pretre
Stickmonkey:
Rumor is the battle wagon is getting reboxed, and will include the deffrolla sprue. ETA 2013. Price rise expected.
I'm hearing an ork wave with buggies/trax, new battle wagon box (old battlewagon with deffrolla incl), tank bustas/flashgitz plastics and deffcoptas.
This is in contention for Q2 model wave release.
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Post by: matphat
About time they added the Deffrolla. It's intergal to the vehicle if you ask me.
Also I'd expect the BW to lose all viability in the new codex since they have to know that everyone already has 3-6 of them (Kind of like what they did to Necron destroyers) and replace it with buggies/trakks since they know no one has any.
Fortunately I have 6 scratch built buggies that I never need to replace since they are so effing rad.
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Post by: Murrdox
Due to the model leak it looks like we'll be getting a Flakk option on our Buggies, which is great. it's probably too much to hope for that our Battlewagons might get updated with a Flakk weapon as well if we're getting a re-box of the Battlewagon.
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Post by: cormadepanda
oooo... Orks should totally get drop roks. A small Rok that turns into fortification that works like a drop pod holding boys, and hurts the enemy. I see new trukk boyz, Roka Boyz kauz Orkz mad fer rokin.
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Post by: FoWPlayerDeathOfUS.TDs
Roks would be so cool!!!!!!
Deepstriking with rocks in the middle of the enemy charge when they are charging at your tau. Im going to enjoy 6th edition. Alot. With close combat suits that might have flachette dischargers. MWAA HA MWA HA MWA HA HACK HA HACK HACK HACK gasp....
Oh. Got a pun. Between a Rok and Hard Boys
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Post by: Malcador
This is what my boyz need!
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Post by: Clang
Roks would hardly be difficult ruleswise - if BA can deploy their land raiders by dropping them from mid-air, then orks doing the same with BWs makes perfect sense
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Post by: cormadepanda
I feel like we should rename the ork codex from Orks to Adapteus Orkisus - we are more likely to get drop pods and the sort.
ie the drop rock.
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Post by: MrMoustaffa
 cormadepanda wrote:I feel like we should rename the ork codex from Orks to Adapteus Orkisus - we are more likely to get drop pods and the sort.
ie the drop rock.
Now yer startin ta fink like a proppa blood axe there mate!
As for roks, as awesome as they would be, we'll never get them. They'd be far too easy to proxy and GW wouldn't make any money on them.
I mean, unless they bank on most gamers being such recluses that they'll never step outside to grab a real rock. in which case, that'd be a new pinnacle in stupidity, even for GW
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Post by: Afrodactyl
Fine, give us drillas then
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Post by: ZebioLizard2
 MrMoustaffa wrote: cormadepanda wrote:I feel like we should rename the ork codex from Orks to Adapteus Orkisus - we are more likely to get drop pods and the sort.
ie the drop rock.
Now yer startin ta fink like a proppa blood axe there mate!
As for roks, as awesome as they would be, we'll never get them. They'd be far too easy to proxy and GW wouldn't make any money on them.
I mean, unless they bank on most gamers being such recluses that they'll never step outside to grab a real rock. in which case, that'd be a new pinnacle in stupidity, even for GW
Honestly, I'd love to see Roks done like the Dawn of War games, that grant fortifications when they land, or grant special area's for the orks, like a Tellyporta rok allows orks in reserve to move from within it.
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Post by: MrMoustaffa
You could give em a "'omin beacon", where there's just a giant target painted on top of it to help the tellyportas figure out where to land
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Post by: cormadepanda
SO special ork fortification.
i say maybe 100-200pts but i have no way really to say.
Ork Fortress of Ain en Da Uss
AV 13 all around
weapons, 1 killa kannaon
4 big shoota
transport cap - 15 orks.
Special rules - rock, meltas and the sort dont get a extra d6 to pen
- deep strike
- burnin entra
When the AeNU deep strikes place 1 strength 10 ap 1 ignores cover where the fortress where land. After resolving the template place the fortress and any living unit that would be in the way 3d6inch scatter away as they are knocked back. Stopping if they would come into another piece of terrain, but suffer d6 strength 4 hits as a result. Saving throws allowed.
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Post by: Kroothawk
A lot of wild wishlisting not connected to rumours here 
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Post by: cormadepanda
you sure theses are not rumors? after are they are just as likely to come true. Maybe gw read this thread..and the new orks all over the place. Kroot you also seem to keep the legit threads running so why not start a legit rumor thread?
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Post by: tarnish
cormadepanda wrote:
you sure theses are not rumors? after are they are just as likely to come true. Maybe gw read this thread..and the new orks all over the place. Kroot you also seem to keep the legit threads running so why not start a legit rumor thread?
I sincerely doubt that GW takes any input from forums into consideration. The thing with wishlisting is that you often end up with ideas that are good, but unbalanced compared to the long term planning of game balance. And yes, i do think they finally learned to do just that... plan far ahead.
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Post by: Grimgob
This
Every time I see this thread get bumped I get chubby, then I see "Proposed rules" and I feel all let down. Moar rumors less wish listing!
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Post by: Charles Rampant
I want initiative 10 Orks with 4+ rending. It is the ONLY way to balance the game. You know it to be true...
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Post by: Paitryn
Charles Rampant wrote:I want initiative 10 Orks with 4+ rending. It is the ONLY way to balance the game. You know it to be true...
LOL then our max green tide squads would be a whole three models
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Charles Rampant wrote:I want initiative 10 Orks with 4+ rending. It is the ONLY way to balance the game. You know it to be true...
They should be Initiative 11! Not 10.
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Post by: Jidmah
Why stop there?
Mob rule should be changed so that not just ld, but all stats can be substituted with the number of orks in the unit. I dare to deal 250 wounds to 30 T10 models!
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Post by: streamdragon
Model leak?
Edit: ah crap. Browsing on my phone and missed that I wasnt on the last page. Think I was asking about new buggies? Something like that?
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Post by: streamdragon
Sorry, see my edit. I was responding to somethingfrom several pages ago I guess. Heres hoping buggies get some love in a new book!
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Post by: cormadepanda
New buggies sure? white dwarf supporting release...not even rumored. Maybe orks will get a small white update; who knows. I will look around for it.
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Post by: ShatteredBlade
cormadepanda wrote:New buggies sure? white dwarf supporting release...not even rumored. Maybe orks will get a small white update; who knows. I will look around for it.
Looks like this new codex, is going to rok!
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Post by: Charles Rampant
Whoa, whoa, let's not get carried away here.
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Post by: ShatteredBlade
pfft, you're missing the whole point! They're orks! T5 with FNP on a 3+ S4 base with furious charge and pass DTW on a 2+ and can run and charge during the waagh turn, which gives them the cinematic Waggh charge bonus of +2 strength.
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Post by: MrMoustaffa
So the total rumors I'm hearing right now is
Plastic Meganobs
tankbusta/flashgitz kit
deffrolla added to battlewagon box (which means the damn thing will probably cost 80+ dollars soon)
deff copta kit
maybe some sort of new ork flyer if that leaked product release date is to be believed from a while back.
maybe an ork fortification
Has anyone heard anything otherwise? That seems to be all I've heard going around, for an early spring release
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Post by: Billagio
How would the plastic meganobz box work? They just released them in finecast, I cant imagine them boxing them up in something like 5 per box like terminators and selling them for around $50 when they are trying to sell them for $22 a pop in finecast. If they wanted them in regular plastic they wouldn't have bothered with the finecast release right?
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Post by: Paitryn
 Billagio wrote:How would the plastic meganobz box work? They just released them in finecast, I cant imagine them boxing them up in something like 5 per box like terminators and selling them for around $50 when they are trying to sell them for $22 a pop in finecast. If they wanted them in regular plastic they wouldn't have bothered with the finecast release right?
My theory is that they used the existing mold and just use resin instead of metal, hence the failcast turnout. As it stands currently, I personally have never seen a Meganob that wasn't a conversion (including my own) the sheer expense of one model doesn't justify buying it from GW, but instead converting something else in any way possible to make the cost more decent.
so a 50 dollar, or even 60 dollar plastic kit with some nice extras (like how the current two gw sells in failcast do not have the basic twin linked shoota, so maybe basics ffs.) Would make me actually think about purchasing one.
I for one would love to see a converters kit of some sort. We have so many units that require converting right now, its better to just capitalize on our love of converting existing models. (like a warboss mega armor/warbike kit, flashgit weapon kits etc.)
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Post by: Grundz
Paitryn wrote:
so a 80 dollar, or even 90 dollar plastic kit without any nice extras (like how the current two gw sells in failcast do not have the basic twin linked shoota, so maybe basics ffs.) Would make me actually think about purchasing one.
Realigned your quote with reality
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Post by: Billagio
Paitryn wrote: Billagio wrote:How would the plastic meganobz box work? They just released them in finecast, I cant imagine them boxing them up in something like 5 per box like terminators and selling them for around $50 when they are trying to sell them for $22 a pop in finecast. If they wanted them in regular plastic they wouldn't have bothered with the finecast release right?
My theory is that they used the existing mold and just use resin instead of metal, hence the failcast turnout. As it stands currently, I personally have never seen a Meganob that wasn't a conversion (including my own) the sheer expense of one model doesn't justify buying it from GW, but instead converting something else in any way possible to make the cost more decent.
so a 50 dollar, or even 60 dollar plastic kit with some nice extras (like how the current two gw sells in failcast do not have the basic twin linked shoota, so maybe basics ffs.) Would make me actually think about purchasing one.
I for one would love to see a converters kit of some sort. We have so many units that require converting right now, its better to just capitalize on our love of converting existing models. (like a warboss mega armor/warbike kit, flashgit weapon kits etc.)
Yeah meganobz seem to be one of the most converted models out there. I dont know why anyone would want to pay $22 for a single mini of that size. I myself am converting some using Black Orcs. I hope theres a new plastic release, but as long as its about the same model count/ price as a terminator kit as its a rough equivalent.
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Post by: Brother SRM
GW brings models from Finecast to Plastic at a good savings pretty often. Bloodcrushers used to be like $35 for one metal one and now it's $55 for a box of three. Killa Kans were pretty much the same way, and even recently with Raptors we saw a box of five go from $45 to $33.
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Post by: MajorWesJanson
 Brother SRM wrote:GW brings models from Finecast to Plastic at a good savings pretty often. Bloodcrushers used to be like $35 for one metal one and now it's $55 for a box of three. Killa Kans were pretty much the same way, and even recently with Raptors we saw a box of five go from $45 to $33.
We also see individual finecast models drop in price when bundled.
My prediction is that we will see the current MANz made into a 3 pack for say $52, like Obliterators and Mutilators. Then when Orks get a new codex, a proper plastic box set maybe 5 for $55 or so, with more options to match an updated unit entry in the new codex.
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Post by: Jidmah
Billagio wrote:How would the plastic meganobz box work? They just released them in finecast, I cant imagine them boxing them up in something like 5 per box like terminators and selling them for around $50 when they are trying to sell them for $22 a pop in finecast. If they wanted them in regular plastic they wouldn't have bothered with the finecast release right?
The did do the exact same thing for flamers and screamers of tzeench though.
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Post by: Azreal13
Billagio wrote:How would the plastic meganobz box work? They just released them in finecast, I cant imagine them boxing them up in something like 5 per box like terminators and selling them for around $50 when they are trying to sell them for $22 a pop in finecast. If they wanted them in regular plastic they wouldn't have bothered with the finecast release right?
Yadda yadda Hive Tyrant blah blah done before etc..
Release in Finecast is no guarantee that a plastic kit isn't around the corner.
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Post by: NoQuestionzAsked
I think that if they did plastic Mega Nobs they would be priced like Obliterators or Mutilators. 3 for 50 usd or so
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