Rivet Wars is a miniatures boardgame that springs forth from the warped imagination of Ted Terranova - set on a world that never quite left World War I but with crazy technology like walking tanks, diesel powered armor, unicycled vehicles and armor plated cavalry!
Don't let the cute visuals fool you, it's a world full of angst, war-torn camaraderie and dark humor.
The minis in this are very unique. Never seen anything like them, and I'm not saying thats a bad thing. Probably gonna have to throw some money at this.
..............and just pledged. I love/hate kickstarter.
I like the cartoony look.. but gonna be on the fence with this one just because I have so many other projects. But then, whenever I say that, I end up spending money anyway.
squall018 wrote: The early bird blitzkreig option is closing pretty fast. I imagine it will be filled in the next hour or two.
@Zwei, i read your article about this game on your blog. Any other insight you could give?
What do you mean? Anything specific you have in mind?
I was mostly wondering about how the game plays. I saw in the interview it was for 2-4 players and would take appx. 45 minutes. I guess I was wondering if there are two other factions that you get later to make it 4 players, or if two players just shared the minis on their side.
and all the early bird specials are gone. That was quick!
There may or may not be more factions (I sure as hell am not privy to possible stretch-goal unlocks, concept art or more rounded, that might come). The basic game plays with up to 4 players as it is "now", so with two factions.
The key idea - game-play-wise - is that it plays like a "RTS", constantly generating units, rather than having a fixed army list to start with. So you have a "stream" of new minis coming in. And - at its most basic - you have the option to "bring in" the miniatures that you own.
Ah good. One page in and we're already at the CMON complaints stage. I look forward to page after page of scipio.au complaining whilst he enters and withdraws his pledge every other day.
CMoN, masters of TT Boardgame KS. So when are they actually gonna put rackham minis on a KS
Wrath of Kings is next up to start in February probably straight after this ends so after that I'd say Guilds of Cadwallon backers will get an advance copy of the rules.
This looks interesting but I'm going to have to pass for now to many other Kickstarters both now and coming up in the next few months.
I haven't had a chance to watch any gameplay vids yet, but that seems like a low model count for something that emulates an RTS and allows up to 4 players.
Unless they really aren't kidding about the casualty rates?
squall018 wrote: Already hit the 50k stretch goal... people aren't messing around.
Looks like backers can enjoy the $125k goal by sunday then
Interestingly enough on the bottom they do mention their other KS
Risks and challenges Learn about accountability on Kickstarter
From past experience, there are some vagaries in terms of timing when it comes to anything produced in China, such as:
Production delays
Shipping delays
Customs delays
We've done our best to minimize this as far as possible, and we are always happy to refund pledges if for some totally unforeseen reason the game can't be delivered at all. Since the game is 95% complete, we don't believe this is in the least bit likely - we've successfully delivered Zombicide and will be shipping Sedition Wars shortly, our first two Kickstarter projects.
We also have two other ongoing projects, Relic Knights and Guilds of Cadwallon that are both progressing on schedule - please refer to those individual project pages if you'd like to check the progress there. These projects are entirely independent of Rivet Wars - they have completely different development teams and have no effect on the production flow or development of Rivet Wars.
Strange they said "Ongoing", Relic Knights and Guilds have already been funded. Unless they mean late backers
Those are some damn stylish models. 200% of goal in one day, see what happens when you actually have a product to show people? Dark Space Corp should take note.
Bolognesus wrote:Well, ZC has been delivered, SW is essentially shipping now (okay, from monday onwards); I think they mean projects they're currently producing.
Ah ok
ph34r wrote:Those are some damn stylish models. 200% of goal in one day, see what happens when you actually have a product to show people? Dark Space Corp should take note.
Careful, someone is gonna bring out the "glorified pre order" card. Well we already did I suppose, that defines CMoN KS
Did you back a previous CMoN KS? I did (two) and got an email hyping up this campaign - as did all their previous backers, I believe. Look at how Guilds of Cadwallon did - folks know them, like the excitement of the campaign, trust that the stretch goals will add loads and so back early. Say what you will about their CS; their marketing is sharp.
HBMC- Mine was a fair comment. They literally do not need the funding ahead of time, so I'm happy to wait till it's available retail.
I think there's a happy medium between "95% done" and "nothing done" a la Beyond the Gates of Antares
This is one extreme, that's the other... I like the campaigns I choose to be a part of to be somewhere in the middle! Lots of sculpts done, rules somewhat tested, but a clear reason given for why they need my money ahead of time via Kickstarter, rather than simply offering their product up for pre-order via their own site (as CMON could obviously do quite easily with this project).
By the same token Zombicide was done. Sedition Wars needed printing. They were essentially 'done', but the KS was used to fund the print run (and their expansions, presumably, given the success of both campaigns), and we got heaps of extras.
I am continually stunned by the amount of money these things are able to raise. People complain about GW prices, but you've got folks who will throw $100 at models that don't even exist just to subsidize a company that won't make them any profits. Mind-boggling.
Its not even midnight here and its sitting at $80k. $20k for more bikers and guns which I'd imagine will be reached sometime tomorrow if theres even a fraction of today's momentum
Piston Honda wrote: Confrontation will hit 4 to 5 million. That game has a huge cult following, being made in plastic will only make it that much more popular.
Last I checked, being made into plastic was one of the nail in the coffins
Of course I know thats a different type of plastic
CMoN, masters of TT Boardgame KS. So when are they actually gonna put rackham minis on a KS
Looks cute anyways
Edit
$36k. In the time of my post. Wow
Confrontation will hit 4 to 5 million. That game has a huge cult following, being made in plastic will only make it that much more popular.
I think this is definitely right. I think they're not ready to do it yet though. My understanding is that they're going to do the Wrath of Kings KS next and then Confrontation after. I think. And, depending on how the models look and how many of the very hard to get models they release, I think $4-5M is about right, and potentially conservative.
My brother is pissed as hell because he didn't get his announcement email from CMoN until 4 and a half hours after the KS went live, meaning the early birds were all long gone.
Myself, the "RTS style" is enough to make it a pass for me, as it makes me think bogged down meatgrinder. Miniatures are cute though.
If one of the allied tanks was a walking M3 Lee I'd probably chip in.
RogueRegault wrote: My brother is pissed as hell because he didn't get his announcement email from CMoN until 4 and a half hours after the KS went live, meaning the early birds were all long gone.
Myself, the "RTS style" is enough to make it a pass for me, as it makes me think bogged down meatgrinder. Miniatures are cute though.
If one of the allied tanks was a walking M3 Lee I'd probably chip in.
Hopefully $10 bucks isn't actually enough to make one "pissed as hell....."
So the sweet spot amount that gets you the game and a picture and a patch and opens you up for extras has gone up from $80 for zombiecide and sedition wars to $140 on this!
For basicly the same amount of content? Wow i dont think even GW would be that blatantly money grabbing. .
RogueRegault wrote: Myself, the "RTS style" is enough to make it a pass for me, as it makes me think bogged down meatgrinder. Miniatures are cute though.
It is a World War One game. Bogged down meatgrinder gameplay seems thematically appropriate.
CURNOW wrote: So the sweet spot amount that gets you the game and a picture and a patch and opens you up for extras has gone up from $80 for zombiecide and sedition wars to $140 on this!
For basicly the same amount of content? Wow i dont think even GW would be that blatantly money grabbing. .
I'm seeing that more and more now with a lot of newer Kickstarters $150 or so seems to be the new "sweet spot" I might have backed this at $125 but at $175 (both include shipping) I'll pass the impulse pledge amount has been exceeded for me - I was hovering over the early bird pledge when the KS opened but just couldn't make the pledge. Hopefully this doesn't set a precedent for future CMON kickstarters but I fear it will - I'd take a shot at Wrath of Kings for $100 but not $150 Confrontation well that's a different story I'll be straight in and I think that will be set higher.
Could someone link me to something about "Wrath of Kings"? I don't know what that refers to.
I agree that Confrontation would be an amazing project. One worth doing a Kickstarter for, that I might actually consider. These smaller projects just seem like a bit of a money grab to me, though... striking while the iron is hot and before people have realized that for small games like this that are 95% done, they can literally wait half a year or so and just get it then.
I think there will continue to be a new influx of fresh blood into Kickstarter, but for those of us who have been doing it there's definitely a bit of burn-out. I'm going to be selective about the things I choose to order half a year - a year in advance: either projects that obviously need to crowd-source, or ones that I Really believe in and want to back that early. This one doesn't meet either criteria for me, although it obviously is leveraging the existing CMON base quite effectively.
I agree that Confrontation would be an amazing project. One worth doing a Kickstarter for, that I might actually consider. These smaller projects just seem like a bit of a money grab to me, though... striking while the iron is hot and before people have realized that for small games like this that are 95% done, they can literally wait half a year or so and just get it then.
But that wouldn't be fun. Part of why Kickstarter is such a success is because it is such a merry group-"shopping" experience. You get to hang out in the comments, chat about the next stretch-goal, parade your "I am a backer" badge around the internet, etc., etc.. . You are part of the "in-group".
Kickstarter is quickly becoming the internet-version of "a group of girls go out for a Saturday and buy shoes". It's a success, precisely because it flips things that the "anonymous" hyper-efficient-online-1-click-shop like Amazon, etc... wouldn't sell. Kickstarter makes "shopping" a "social" thing again. Who cares if you never wear the shoes you bought in the end?
[edit]
Yeah, I was googling for the rules and edited them in, probably while Dave was posting. No intend there to ninja anyone.
RTides - wrath of kings is going to be an absolute blast to play and the models are fuggin gorgeous.
I can see a 150 sweet spot pledge there making sense as the impression I got from talking to the devs indicated the starters would have between 40-50 models.
I love the resins I have and I really can't wait for that KS.
Well I'm in for $90 .. I hope they don't make all the new stretch goals just for the $150 level like the 125k is .. can't really afford more than this.
Necros wrote: Well I'm in for $90 .. I hope they don't make all the new stretch goals just for the $150 level like the 125k is .. can't really afford more than this.
I have a feeling most of the stretch goals are gonna be for the 150 pledge since they said in the description that it was the "sweet spot".
Necros wrote: Well I'm in for $90 .. I hope they don't make all the new stretch goals just for the $150 level like the 125k is .. can't really afford more than this.
Well on the bright side at least you get extra bikes and a gun
cincydooley wrote: RTides - wrath of kings is going to be an absolute blast to play and the models are fuggin gorgeous.
I can see a 150 sweet spot pledge there making sense as the impression I got from talking to the devs indicated the starters would have between 40-50 models.
I love the resins I have and I really can't wait for that KS.
so less models than zombiecide and sedition wars then ? but over twice the cost ? and as the models are allready designed and produced in resin and sold on the CMON site and the kickstarter wont have any effect on the rules side of it , i really dont see why it needs one ?
its just a weak excusse to get peoples money early and pre order.
i suppose the same thing could of been said of sedition wars but those were more inocent halcyon days lol
cincydooley wrote: RTides - wrath of kings is going to be an absolute blast to play and the models are fuggin gorgeous.
I can see a 150 sweet spot pledge there making sense as the impression I got from talking to the devs indicated the starters would have between 40-50 models.
I love the resins I have and I really can't wait for that KS.
so less models than zombiecide and sedition wars then ? but over twice the cost ? and as the models are allready designed and produced in resin and sold on the CMON site and the kickstarter wont have any effect on the rules side of it , i really dont see why it needs one ?
its just a weak excusse to get peoples money early and pre order.
i suppose the same thing could of been said of sedition wars but those were more inocent halcyon days lol
I encourage you to look at them first. Many of the will not be man sized miniatures. The resin ones are a pretty standard 12-20 bucks per man sized model. They can't afford to do the whole game resin, which is why the game is moving to Kickstarter to get the armies tooled for plastic.
But you know, talking out of your ass when you know nothing about it is fun too.
Not so interested any more. after painting 100s of minis for 28mm Napoleonics (French), hundreds more for 15mm Napoleonics (Russians) and hundreds of 15mm Confederates just got burned out and looking to only paint a handful of models for agame.
That and just don't have the time like I use to.
That said the models are quite nice and for the most part, rather large, I will post a pic. If you don't like cartoon-ish style models, you may not like them.
cincydooley wrote: RTides - wrath of kings is going to be an absolute blast to play and the models are fuggin gorgeous.
I can see a 150 sweet spot pledge there making sense as the impression I got from talking to the devs indicated the starters would have between 40-50 models.
I love the resins I have and I really can't wait for that KS.
so less models than zombiecide and sedition wars then ? but over twice the cost ? and as the models are allready designed and produced in resin and sold on the CMON site and the kickstarter wont have any effect on the rules side of it , i really dont see why it needs one ?
its just a weak excusse to get peoples money early and pre order.
i suppose the same thing could of been said of sedition wars but those were more inocent halcyon days lol
I encourage you to look at them first. Many of the will not be man sized miniatures. The resin ones are a pretty standard 12-20 bucks per man sized model. They can't afford to do the whole game resin, which is why the game is moving to Kickstarter to get the armies tooled for plastic.
But you know, talking out of your ass when you know nothing about it is fun too.
i know what the minis are like i do actually own afew of them ... just because cmon charge "12-20 bucks per man sized model" dosnt mean that they are worth it ! the armies will allready be tooled in plastic-resin hybrid {ie the same stuff most of cmon minis are being produced in } and as cmon have taken over 2.5million dollars from there last 4 kickstarters they can surely afford to have these minis produced without the use of a kickstarter especialy as the cost of produceing these is not as high as the cost of "tooling" hard plastic injection molded minis.
so this would lead me to belive that they are useing kickstarter as a tool for preorders and instant influx of cash than as a tool to help them pay for it.
3 of the previous CMON KS projects had another partner company in with them (Zombicide, Sedition Wars, Relic Kights) and I don't know about the 4th (Cadwallon)
so they'll have had to share the revinue (no idea of what the splits were for any of them)
could CMON fund rivit wars ? Maybe,
but would the IP owner/gmae designer want to give up his project which is what he's have to do if CMON put in all the cash? probably not.
This way he gets to keep his game, CMON get added publicity for when the game hits retail, the KS buyers get extra stuff, and the retail buyers get a better basic box
i know what the minis are like i do actually own afew of them ... just because cmon charge "12-20 bucks per man sized model" dosnt mean that they are worth it ! the armies will allready be tooled in plastic-resin hybrid {ie the same stuff most of cmon minis are being produced in } and as cmon have taken over 2.5million dollars from there last 4 kickstarters they can surely afford to have these minis produced without the use of a kickstarter especialy as the cost of produceing these is not as high as the cost of "tooling" hard plastic injection molded minis.
so this would lead me to belive that they are useing kickstarter as a tool for preorders and instant influx of cash than as a tool to help them pay for it.
oh and you stay classy !
So...which do you own? You obviously found them to be "worth" the 12-20 bucks because you paid it.
The armies will "already be tooled In plastic resin hybrid?" Is that so? I presume you've spoken to one of the producers of the game and know they already have these moulds ready then?
As to the 2.5M they've taken in from other KSes: as Orlando said, 3 of those 4 are partnerships with other companies. Since you like presumptions, I'd say its safe to them assume a fair amount of that money went to Guillotine, McVey, and Soda Pop, not simply CMoN. Further, they had to use some of that 2.5M to, you know, actually produce and ship the games.
But Nevermind all of that. We wouldn't want some silly facts getting in the way of your clearly very informed opinions.
Back to Rivet: Were KD not wrapping right now and WoK/Confron soon on the horizon, I'd be straight in on this one. As it stands I'm going to have to wait and see just how much more the $150 level gets you than the $90 before I pledge.
Stretch goal update time (why am I the one doing this?):
Slightly over a day down and it looks like we've managed to hit all our initially planned stretch goals thanks to all our backers!
So .... what's next?
Medic! Instead of paper chits we'll have nifty little damage counters upgrading every game!
Roll the bones - Every Blitzkrieg pledge gets a free set of custom dice. And we know, we know, for you dice junkies out there you can pledge $10 for even more sets. Just add them to your pledge total and we'll sort it out later.
Every game gets an upgrade with these two generals to plug into your tanks! (or plug turrets).
General G. Patston (Ally Plug Hero)
After graduating from East Point Military academy General Patston quickly rose through the ranks. Although known for his brash style and quick temper his success on the battlefield can not be denied. A cavalry man at heart, Patston is obsessed with mobility. He is a master of troop movement and is sure to get your men to front and into the fight!
General E. Romler (Blight Plug Hero)
Romler is a master tactician. He views the battlefield as full of opportunities waiting to be exploited. Using his state of the art ocular enhancement gear, Romler can increase his soldiers' range allowing them to blast holes in the enemy forces. When Romler is on the battlefield no place is safe from his gaze!
Blitzkrieg only - Sometimes, more is better. Get 12 more guys per side for a total of 24 additional infantry!
And we're finishing the editing on the gameplay video so it'll be up in a couple of hours! Stay Riveted!
So that gives us almost a 1 for 1 ratio of Core Box:Blitzkrieg level stretch goals. I like the idea of alternating between the two.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Ah good. One page in and we're already at the CMON complaints stage. I look forward to page after page of scipio.au complaining whilst he enters and withdraws his pledge every other day.
It's a Dakka/KS tradition, after all!
Just following your Dakka tradition of pissing and moaning about everything GW release, do, and have ever done. But without getting into an internerd slapfight with someone like Kan or Testify or a butthurt signature banner.
Avoiding snark and being grown-up for a moment - Why yes, I am in on an early-bird pledge and fully intend to decide whether to stay or go in the last couple of days depending on how the KS has gone and been run. I only actually change my pledges once after going in - in the last days to drop out like this one, or on the last day to bump it up if I'm staying and need to add-on. But don't let the facts interrupt your light-hearted trolling.
Yeah, I know you just changed it, and I know Insaniak write it. I was referring to the fact that you decided to make that text your sig, and of course to the Jervis one that you used for a not-insignificant amount of time.
I actually agree with many of your sentiments, I just don't feel a need to wear them tattooed on my forehead and get into pointless circular arguments with people like Test and Kan. But I guess you of all people find arguing on the internets makes good entertainment at times.
The Rivet Wars models aesthetic looks interesting, and t makes me basically count them much more as "playing pieces" then as "miniatures" - albeit ones that can be painted up to look cool(er), like SDE. Or even something like Tide of Iron.
It's intriguing to me that the Blitzkreig level is simply more "stuff" at this point, and more specifically most of it is extras of what is already there. I like the notion of upping the core box as much as possible and going every other one for the upgrades.
RogueRegault wrote: My brother is pissed as hell because he didn't get his announcement email from CMoN until 4 and a half hours after the KS went live, meaning the early birds were all long gone.
Myself, the "RTS style" is enough to make it a pass for me, as it makes me think bogged down meatgrinder. Miniatures are cute though.
If one of the allied tanks was a walking M3 Lee I'd probably chip in.
Hopefully $10 bucks isn't actually enough to make one "pissed as hell....."
Well, it's more the principle of the thing, and the fact it's the second time it's happened. He hates giving out his contact information, so what's the point of joining a mailing list if they don't send the emails in a timely manner?
Confrontation will hit 4 to 5 million. That game has a huge cult following, being made in plastic will only make it that much more popular.
I think this is definitely right. I think they're not ready to do it yet though. My understanding is that they're going to do the Wrath of Kings KS next and then Confrontation after. I think. And, depending on how the models look and how many of the very hard to get models they release, I think $4-5M is about right, and potentially conservative.
Confrontation kickstarter? Wow... so when do the other snazzy looking but failed games of the last 15 years get kickstarted? Vor, Warzone, AT-43... Confrontation already had its chance in plastic so I'm not sure what another run in plastic will do for it when the first drove it into the ground.
Confrontation will hit 4 to 5 million. That game has a huge cult following, being made in plastic will only make it that much more popular.
I think this is definitely right. I think they're not ready to do it yet though. My understanding is that they're going to do the Wrath of Kings KS next and then Confrontation after. I think. And, depending on how the models look and how many of the very hard to get models they release, I think $4-5M is about right, and potentially conservative.
Confrontation kickstarter? Wow... so when do the other snazzy looking but failed games of the last 15 years get kickstarted? Vor, Warzone, AT-43... Confrontation already had its chance in plastic so I'm not sure what another run in plastic will do for it when the first drove it into the ground.
Confrontation failed in plastic because the miniatures were a pale shadow of what they once were AND the gameplay was gak.
IF they get the quality of the miniatures back up and return the gameplay to its skirmish roots, they'll do quite well.
On topic here, it is odd that only certain levels get more miniatures and not the core box, especially as the goal seems to be to spawn as many units as possible, ala RTS'?
I guess this'll go the same route as SW in that regard, with most scenarios available (e.g. those in the rulebook) being just for the base game minis, and only a few scenarios accommodating the larger no. of figs from the blitzkrieg! level.
Closer look at the painted miniatures by James Wappell the guy who painted them http://wappellious.blogspot.ie/ he's going to post further pictures and painting instructions. Although for this project each side comes in different coloured plastic so there's no need to paint them if you don't want to.
Must admit a caved and backed the project I juggled a few other pledges to find the funds
Confrontation will hit 4 to 5 million. That game has a huge cult following, being made in plastic will only make it that much more popular.
I think this is definitely right. I think they're not ready to do it yet though. My understanding is that they're going to do the Wrath of Kings KS next and then Confrontation after. I think. And, depending on how the models look and how many of the very hard to get models they release, I think $4-5M is about right, and potentially conservative.
Confrontation kickstarter? Wow... so when do the other snazzy looking but failed games of the last 15 years get kickstarted? Vor, Warzone, AT-43... Confrontation already had its chance in plastic so I'm not sure what another run in plastic will do for it when the first drove it into the ground.
Confrontation was a fantastic game system. There are multiple levels of why it failed, only one of which came down to the plastics, which failed, by the way, not simply because they were plastic but due to both being pre-painted, to looking significantly worse than the metals, and as Alph said, the rules being neutered and completely changed.
While it may not have been as huge as some other systems in the US, Confron3 was extraordinarily popular in Europe where outstanding sculpts are often as important as game play. The models, for painters, are still incredibly popular there.
When they re-release it, it's going to be very, very, very popular.
Gotta go with "Meh" on this one, though I appreciate the creativity. Could do much the same with legos if I wanted small humorous guys. I like some of the vehicles - hopefully they will be available separately at some point.
DaveC wrote: Closer look at the painted miniatures by James Wappell the guy who painted them http://wappellious.blogspot.ie/ he's going to post further pictures and painting instructions. Although for this project each side comes in different coloured plastic so there's no need to paint them if you don't want to.
Must admit a caved and backed the project I juggled a few other pledges to find the funds
Huh. Almost looks like Tulle painting more than traditional miniatures painting style.
Looks great! I'm in.... It's got a "Advance Wars/Famicom" wars vibe to it, and that's some great lineage right there. The fact it's an alt WWI is a plus, you rarely see those out there in the market.
Was thinking of pledging, game looks good, love the artwork.
Pledge levels really put me off, $115 dollars to get the retail box version early, $175 dollars for not much more than at $115, Oh and on top of that, being basically told that if you want the majority of the goodness, you have to pay the big bucks.
From the KS wording it seems that most of the extras will end up in the retail box anyway...
I don't know, they just haven't really tempted me to stump up the cash yet...
I think we will see a lot more stretch goals for the $150 tier as they increase rather then being for the boxed version. I would expect a few more generals and maybe a vert tank for both factions to be exclusive to that tier at least. We are only a couple of days in and still lots more stretch goals to come . Both zombicide and sedition wars had box upgrades for the early stretch goals and the 'sweetspot' exclusives for the later goals (like we are already seeing with the additional infantry).
One thing to note for the European backers, Coolmini have confirmed that all EU copies will be sent from Europe so whilst we have to pay the $25 postage costs (to take into account the extra cost of shipping the container to Europe and the taxes they will incur) we won't have to pay any import tax on the actual game (was charged a small fortune in tax for zombicide). I know that I was a lot more inclined to back Rivet Wars because of that.
So I was reading through the comments on the KS page, and CMON said that the game would come with things like barbed wire and tank traps which will add some depth to the movement aspect of the game which is great. The gameplay video was awesome, but since it was the tutorial was pretty simple. Glad to know they already have a few wrinkled planned.
I think they should make the figures pre-painted. There have been plenty of nice figures on established games and kickstarter projects for any painter, pro or amateur, to occupy the time already.
wildger wrote: I think they should make the figures pre-painted. There have been plenty of nice figures on established games and kickstarter projects for any painter, pro or amateur, to occupy the time already.
I for one am glad they aren't pre painted as I like the painting aspect but I understand its not for everyone. They will be color coded per army so at least will be easy to tell apart. I believe they also adressed this in the KS comments and pretty much said (i'm paraphrasing) they would just come in an army color and not prepainted.
wildger wrote: I think they should make the figures pre-painted. There have been plenty of nice figures on established games and kickstarter projects for any painter, pro or amateur, to occupy the time already.
Count me on the list of people very happy they're not pre-paints.
I really see no reason why to go to the extra cost of having them prepainted, as a board game and that is what it is, colour coding is the acceptable industry standard.
PsychoticStorm wrote: I really see no reason why to go to the extra cost of having them prepainted, as a board game and that is what it is, colour coding is the acceptable industry standard.
Not only that, but too often pre-paints just dont look good.
PsychoticStorm wrote: I really see no reason why to go to the extra cost of having them prepainted, as a board game and that is what it is, colour coding is the acceptable industry standard.
Not only that, but too often pre-paints just dont look good.
Thats true, and if it doens't look good, I at least want it to be MY fault
Me, I personally hope that they release the prussian tank as a stand alone buy, as that thing looks awesome!
I have a feeling you will be able to buy most of this stuff without buying the whole game. They already have a few rivet things you can buy separately, so it would make sense that they would sell these as well. I guess we'll see soon. I hope so since I think 24 soldiers would be plenty for me, I might want to have a few more tanks/ bikes for some bigger games.
Leigen_Zero wrote: Oh and on top of that, being basically told that if you want the majority of the goodness, you have to pay the big bucks.
More than half of the stretch goals have been basic box upgrades, not the higher level upgrade.
Pledge $150 or more
Blizkreig! A copy of Rivet Wars, 2 promo Heroes not available in the base game and 2 Faction patches. This level will attract the most stretch goal bonuses (hint, hint).
All I'm saying is they don't have to have make a single stretch goal available below blitzkreig level for the rest of the campaign and no-one can do squat. Maybe it's just because I'm very skeptical and untrusting of any form of company.
Confrontation will hit 4 to 5 million. That game has a huge cult following, being made in plastic will only make it that much more popular.
I think this is definitely right. I think they're not ready to do it yet though. My understanding is that they're going to do the Wrath of Kings KS next and then Confrontation after. I think. And, depending on how the models look and how many of the very hard to get models they release, I think $4-5M is about right, and potentially conservative.
Confrontation kickstarter? Wow... so when do the other snazzy looking but failed games of the last 15 years get kickstarted? Vor, Warzone, AT-43... Confrontation already had its chance in plastic so I'm not sure what another run in plastic will do for it when the first drove it into the ground.
CMoN actually own the rights to (many? most of?) the metal Confrontation Minis and IP. Not sure about the plastics or the rules, etc. A lot of those failed games weren't down to the rules, games or models, but incompetent management. It'd actually be quite a smart move for CMoN to revive Confrontation via a Kickstarter.
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wildger wrote: I think they should make the figures pre-painted. There have been plenty of nice figures on established games and kickstarter projects for any painter, pro or amateur, to occupy the time already.
Treat it like a boardgame (which it is) rather than a miniatures game. Now we just need to see if it'll be a boardgame worth the asking price(s).
cincydooley wrote: It's intriguing to me that the Blitzkreig level is simply more "stuff" at this point, and more specifically most of it is extras of what is already there. I like the notion of upping the core box as much as possible and going every other one for the upgrades.
I'm impressed by how they're running it so far. I plan to buy the core box when it's released, so Core Box upgrades are sweet. And I like the fact that the heroes aren't exclusive to the KS or highest backers, because that would nibble at my buyer's conscience.
They sure are tempting me to pledge Blitzkrieg, though...
More dice are nice, but I think the two following ones are the ones people will actually care about. Hopefully this will pick up even more with KDM over now.
Also a liitle off topic, but how are you guys posting pics on here. I was trying to put the 150k announcement and apparently I'm not smart enough to figure out how to post pics...
If your prepared to hang around on the KS tonight there seems to be a few early birds opening up I picked 1 up about an hour ago I suspect people who backed both KD:M and Rivet Wars are dropping out for now after seeing how much they just pledged to KD:M
squall018 wrote: Also a liitle off topic, but how are you guys posting pics on here. I was trying to put the 150k announcement and apparently I'm not smart enough to figure out how to post pics...
squall018 wrote: More dice are nice, but I think the two following ones are the ones people will actually care about. Hopefully this will pick up even more with KDM over now.
Also a liitle off topic, but how are you guys posting pics on here. I was trying to put the 150k announcement and apparently I'm not smart enough to figure out how to post pics...
put [imgX]the address of the image, just right click on it and look at properties[/imgX]
remove the Xs to get it to work, this hotlinks the image from wherever it's hosted
CMoN actually own the rights to (many? most of?) the metal Confrontation Minis and IP. Not sure about the plastics or the rules, etc. A lot of those failed games weren't down to the rules, games or models, but incompetent management. It'd actually be quite a smart move for CMoN to revive Confrontation via a Kickstarter.
(s).
My understanding based on speaking to some of the Devs and Dave at GenCon is that Confrontation has a lot of work to be done to make it ready. Granted, this was 6 months ago, but the word was that a lot of the moulds were in......rough shape. Apparently some of them went to the company that bought the IP after Rackham went under and, not being a miniatures company, they weren't treated with the greatest of care.
I think Confron would actually benefit from a Kickstarter as it sounded like there was a lot to do to get the minis ready.
Rivet wars. Eff me. Ill just keep reminding myself it doesn't pay until the end of Feb. :-)
Really have my hopes out for this one, presses alot of my buttons, just hope the stretch goals and pledge rewards are up to snuff as they seem a little uninspired at the moment.
I think they are getting all the basic (boring) game upgrades such as plastic markers and tokens out the way early on and I would be very suprised if we didnt see a lot more interesting stretch goals popping up.
Hopefully I will be able to afford this one since I had to cancel my KD for lack of funds. I am still trying to hear from my funding to see if I will get my fees reimbursed or not. If not seems it is going to be another one I am going to miss.
This does look epically awesome. However Im absolutley broke and have far too much waiting to be built and painted already. Maybe Ill get in on it down the road through normal retail sales.
So I was hanging out in the KS forum for this and there are some cool links on there to some other sculpts for what may turn out to be stretch goals. There is a sniper and a guy with what kind of looks like a flame thrower. Also an upright tank. Pretty need stuff.
The upright tank (they are called Vert Tanks in Rivet Wars) has been heavily hinted to be a stretch goal or addon for the kickstarter campaign so I think we will be seeing it announced in the next week or so.
Shhh... it's a secret... Update #6 · Jan. 09, 2013 · 2 comments How about two super secret characters for Blitzkreig?
Babygirl At a young age babygirl demonstrated amazing powers of concentration and mental toughness. For this reason she was brought into the Court of Assassins where she was trained to be a warrior and killer. Today she is one of the most deadly assassins on the face of Rivet. Her fierce combat skills are only matched by her beauty.
The Man In Charge Some men are born to follow and some are born to lead. The Colonel, as everyone refers to him, is definitely the man in charge. When he walks into a room one can feel his presence. And the gaze of his eye is always scrutinizing his men, looking for any flaw, any weakness. When charging into battle, this is the man you want in charge! These two super secret characters can be used by either side and will be added to each Blitzkreig level pledge!
Two help us unlock these secret characters, perhaps you may be interested in....
.
Get additional tanks for your forces! Build an all armor force today! TANK SHOCK, BABY!
The Jetpacker!
For Professor Winston Nurfle planes and zeppelins always seemed much too large. Instead he felt that each man, woman and child should have their own flying propulsion unit. Finally Nurfle stumbled up the perfect mixture of explosive chemicals to provide thrust for his jet pack. But now with the wars consuming most research and development Nurfle has donned his prototype pack and gotten into the fight! He has vowed to prove the combat effectiveness of his invention!
To get optional items: Just add the appropriate amount to your pledge. We'll sort it out after the Kickstarter ends with our pledge manager.
Well not entirely thrilled with the special characters and both seem to be allied affiliated, the Jetpacker is a more logical option and homage, still no reason to compalin for them.
Just saw this go up. I'm quite the fan. And already the pledge amounts are climbing as fast as they have since the first day, so thats even better. Huzzah!!!
Hmmm I can't say I'm happy about the $15 price tag it looks like KD:M has set a new pricing trend for add on miniatures in that case probably worth it here I'd rather they'd stayed at $10.
Nah. I'll leave it until the end and then work out if I'm getting $165 worth of boardgame. Which is to be fair, a lot of boardgame for them to have to live up to, so I may very well end up withdrawing it at the end on that basis alone.
That's something I kinda like about this campaign actually. While I am likely to paint the models, they're sufficiently different enough in their aesthetic from traditional wargame miniatures to make my brain see them as pretty cool boardgame pieces rather than as miniatures. This makes it really easy for me to pass on the add-ons without needing to be a completionist or even thinking "that model looks SO cool, I MUST have it." Or to put it another way, I'm more interested in the game than the models. I guess that obliges me to watch that 45min video at some stage.
TBH, I think wheeling out a little chibi Rocketeer for $15 this early in the game is rather cynical on their part. As Schmapdi said, it's almost the same price as the tanks.. Luckily I don't really care this time around. I do think they're going to see more C&D for this sort of thing as they keep using them though. Didn't 2 of Zombicide's add-on homage figures get pinged?
scipio.au wrote: TBH, I think wheeling out a little chibi Rocketeer for $15 this early in the game is rather cynical on their part. As Schmapdi said, it's almost the same price as the tanks.. Luckily I don't really care this time around.
Yeah, it does make CMoN look a bit greedy...
I do think they're going to see more C&D for this sort of thing as they keep using them though. Didn't 2 of Zombicide's add-on homage figures get pinged?
Given Disney's track record regarding IP (harsh, to put it generously) and that Disney owns the Rocketeer and Marvel (with Nick Fury), they might be stepping on some bigger toes, there...
The Jetpacker (Rocketeer) is a $15 add on it's not free with any level the other 2 are though so you'll get them at Blitzkrieg level whether you add more money or not.
Either way I wouldn't put down $15 for one of these. But I would have on the Sedition Wars ones based on quality. It'll really depend.
Agree - $15 for a KD pinup was a little on the pricey side (for plastic) - but those were also 35mm (so a little on the big side) and very finely sculpted. (Though I still balked).
I love the Rivet Wars style (similarly - I love Super Dungeon Explore too) but you're not going to get me to believe that the Rivet Wars figures aren't a hell of a lot faster/easier to sculpt/render than a traditional highly detailed mini.
Hell, for $15 I can get a highly detailed metal mini from any number of companies. For plastic, and paying 6+ months in advance - they need to be cheaper.
Similarly - during the Relic Knights campaign (also a CMON product) the single figure add-ons were $10. That was all of November.
DaveC wrote: The Jetpacker (Rocketeer) is a $15 add on it's not free with any level the other 2 are though so you'll get them at Blitzkrieg level whether you add more money or not.
Yeah, my bad on that one. I didn't count the rocketman as a homage as he fits into the rivet wars universe very nicely without feeling like a homage (although I know he is).
DaveC wrote: The Jetpacker (Rocketeer) is a $15 add on it's not free with any level the other 2 are though so you'll get them at Blitzkrieg level whether you add more money or not.
Yeah, my bad on that one. I didn't count the rocketman as a homage as he fits into the rivet wars universe very nicely without feeling like a homage (although I know he is).
Apology accepted!
$15 for an add-on Rivet Wars sized figure is a bit much though.
And I love the Rocketeer too... but at that price, he's easy to pass on.
I think they are $15 as we may receive a plug version as a later stretch goal although not sure why rocketman would get in a tank (although makes sense for the other two).
To be fair since size seems to be such a huge issue (what are you all, cheerleaders? ) the Rivet Wars minis seem to be much thicker than any of the KD or Relic Knights minis and I hear for some people a thick mini is better than a tall one anyways. Besides, isn't it how the minis are used in the game that matters?
I'm shocked no one else hit on this completely wide open innuendo. Glad I could class this place up a bit with it
Hmm, regardless of innuendo, there's a pic that shows that the minis, while chunky, are actually going to be around 30mm. Those are actually some fairly chunky models, I guess I just assumed they'd be smaller because of the simple design.
New stretch reward added the Special Edition figures will ship with a plug in version along with the regular version @$210k so the $15 for the Jetpacker doesn't look to bad now.
Plug ins fit in the tanks they can be swapped in and out and they add additional benefits to the tank
(admittedly these later got stretched to include a smaller 'cyper' mini, but initially it was $15 for a single)
Yes, I remember.
For some reason, I'm thinking that this not-Rocketeer is going to be about half their size too.
I'll be sad if $15 is the new $10 for Kickstarters though.
I wouldn't be surprised. The last few big ones have been hammering that home. Imbrian Arts was $12 and of course KD was $15. On the other hand, as pre-order miniature prices approach and surpass more than RRP for the equivalent figures at retail it'll just make it that much easier to skip them and their associated campaigns entirely. Even this one costs a lot of money for a boardgame. We won't see another Zombiecide/Sedition Wars from CMON, and I certainly don't expect another Reaper from, well, anybody. That one was an anomaly for sure.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Here's the scale pic:
As I keep saying, I'll withdraw or modify it in the last day or two. The only campaigns I've changed it more than once were Sedition Wars and Kings of War, when KS and how this stuff works was new. Since then, and including this one - everything between the day I pledge and the final day is just commentary
The commentary is always welcomed though! The more I watch that video, the more I think the 'spawning' of the units really is a neat little mechanic. I'm hoping to see a bit more to better differentiate it from Dust Tactics, but I'm pretty hopeful.
You know one thing I find pretty funny? How bent people are getting when comparing the perceived "value" of the box compared to other board games with minis (Zombiecide, Sedition) and then sorta refuse to acknowledge that these minis are a TON beefier than any of those other games.
Personally, I think the base game is appropriately priced for the market and believe once the$225K infantry are added the Blitz package will only continue to grow in value.
If you think represents 'good value' then CMON has successfully raised the bar on the whole Money to Value thing in Kickstarters and we're all going to be paying a lot more than we used to and possibly should!
I know I'll be sitting this one out, and waiting for retail, if then.
Size isn't how I determine value. It's the quality of the model/sculpt. I'm into some games based on playability (Zombicide with drunken friends) or based on amazing models (Sedition Wars/KD:Monster). This doesn't fullfil the random silly itch like Zombicide or the amazing model niche like SW or KD so I perceive the value as much, much lower.
And have a model be "beefier" but much easier to design and produce doesn't make it ok to bump the price significantly.
I'll be keeping an eye on this one but I'm probably waiting for retail, if even then similarly to Alph.
If you think represents 'good value' then CMON has successfully raised the bar on the whole Money to Value thing in Kickstarters and we're all going to be paying a lot more than we used to and possibly should!
I know I'll be sitting this one out, and waiting for retail, if then.
I don't know that it's CMON that set that bar. I think FFG really did. For a game like this, the 'industry norm' seems to be between $60 and $90 USD, with a few outliers on either side of that range. This is where games like Gears of War, the D&D Adventures series, and even Mantic's corridor games sit. On the high end you of course have Super Dungeon & Dust Tactics, both of which I think have much more high quality components, especially miniatures wise, than the previously mentioned group.
Quality of the sculpt I'm right with and I use that as a barometer, the same as I use component quality (this is one of the reasons I can't bring myself to buy any of Mantic's board games). Obviously we can't say for certian what the quality of the Rivet Wars sculpts will be unitl we have them in hand, but if I had to make an educated guess, I'd bet they're on the same level as SDE. They'll be great to paint, but won't be as "detailed" as something like Sedition Wars because they style won't require them to be.
Anyways, thanks for the input! I think, for me, this is going to scratch one of those silly itches like Zombiecide does .
BYAG: Kickstarter has been pretty good to Cool Mini or Not. Is this now the preferred way to get a game into production? Do you think crowd funding is here permanently?
CMON: It certainly provided us a lot of feedback in terms of how to tweak the games – Zombicide had nifty plastic trackers added instead of cardboard chits because of our backers, for example. The knowledge that we have committed gamers backing us also helps tremendously in terms of confidence of production, which drives costs down a lot, making previously expensive (or even impossible) projects a reality. It’s a huge responsibility though, and not one we take lightly.
It’s hard to say if crowd funding is here to stay, but I don’t believe we’ve seen a peak yet – so far, only really early adopters are aware of it. I’m pretty certain as it becomes more popular things will progress further than any of us anticipate.
cincydooley wrote: The commentary is always welcomed though! The more I watch that video, the more I think the 'spawning' of the units really is a neat little mechanic. I'm hoping to see a bit more to better differentiate it from Dust Tactics, but I'm pretty hopeful.
You know one thing I find pretty funny? How bent people are getting when comparing the perceived "value" of the box compared to other board games with minis (Zombiecide, Sedition) and then sorta refuse to acknowledge that these minis are a TON beefier than any of those other games.
Personally, I think the base game is appropriately priced for the market and believe once the$225K infantry are added the Blitz package will only continue to grow in value.
Thoughts?
I tend to compare these boardgames using miniatures (or close to it, as this one does) to others that fit the same kind of scope to someone like FFG, who makes a lot of "our people's" boardgames, or the Wizards branch of Hasbro (as opposed to Hungry Hungry Hippoes). Simply put, $90US is expensive for a boardgame at retail. The "Kickstarter discount" here will plainly be whatever extras they throw in by the time it ends. $25 for shipping from the US actually sounds quite reasonable.
There's an interesting evolution at work here though. Zombicide, (which I sadly missed) attracted all the extras at Abomination/$100, which was also the base game funding level. Sedition Wars had a $10 discount for the boxed game alone ($80) but set the extras "sweet spot" again at $100 (same as Zombicide). Here, the "sweet spot" is set at $140, which is $50 more (or an addition of more than 50%/half again of the base game cost of $90). It'll be interesting to see if the perceived value of the Blitzkrieg set comes to the same as half again of the base game level. Or, you know, more. To make it some kind of deal. Slapping a $15/ea value on chibi-figs doesn't make them especially more valuable to me. YMMV.
Still, with the CMON Kickstarters we're seeing a level of price creep in a very short time that would make even GW blush.
OH NO ES NOW I MIGHTY HAVE TO WITHDRAW MY PLEDGE RIGHT NOWE
I don't know that it's CMON that set that bar. I think FFG really did. For a game like this, the 'industry norm' seems to be between $60 and $90 USD, with a few outliers on either side of that range. This is where games like Gears of War, the D&D Adventures series, and even Mantic's corridor games sit. On the high end you of course have Super Dungeon & Dust Tactics, both of which I think have much more high quality components, especially miniatures wise, than the previously mentioned group.
I don't know that SDE's miniatures are particularly better than the D&D miniatures boardgames' figures (Ravenloft et al). Both potentially paint up very well, but I wouldn't say they're particularly "higher quality". I think both are a bit variable in their particular aesthetics, but I don't think SDE is particularly better.
This is of course, without bringing games like Age of Conan ($80/168 miniatures) or Descent into the discussion.
Descent is a very expensive game due to expansions. There were what, 6-8 expansions by the time they made the move to 2nd Ed? That's a lotta boxes to buy.
I guess I should explain my own reasoning for why I see this thing as worth it:
FFG put out a DOOM boardgame a while back. Over here in Oz it was about AUD$90 (not double what it was in the US, thanksverymuchGW). I own two copies. I have never played it. The miniatures have never left the box. The cards and counters remain unpunched. The tiles, however, have seen more use than almost any set of tiles I own, all for the 40KRPG's. I do not feel that I wasted $180 on a game I've never played because I have certainly got my $180's worth out of those corridor/room tiles.
I own all three editions of Space Hulk, and the reasoning is very similar. I spent $600 back in mid 2005 money getting 1st and 2nd Ed Space Hulk (plus 1st Ed's two expansions). I got tons of minis out of it, and now have nearly 150 Genestealers, and a lot of tiles. Again, all of these have coming handy even if I've not played the game itself.
Sedition Wars? Bought it for the minis and the tiles (of which I bought two sets). I want to make an X-Com board game using the pieces from it (and that gives me an idea - the minis from DOOM could work well here as well). If the game is good, then great, but that'll be a bonus.
To put it all another way, I'm looking for versatility. This game looks like fun, plus the trench tiles could be useful elsewhere. Zombicide is a great game, and I own two tile-sets in case I need to do a detailed abandoned city for any game I may be running. I've spent hundreds on D&D tiles and maps, and I've only ever played D&D twice in my life, but I've used all of them quite a bit.
If a game turns out to be really good then that's great, but that's not the only criteria I base a game's worth on. How much use I can get out of everything in the game, even not within the context of the game, is far more important.
scipio.au wrote: OH NO ES NOW I MIGHTY HAVE TO WITHDRAW MY PLEDGE RIGHT NOWE
Will each faction have more then one type of infantry at one point down the line?
We have some more troopers in the plan now, I think we will get to see them not to far down the road
Tokens includes, damage counters, gas counters, mine fields, dragons teeth, barbed wire, score counters. I think that is everything
We do have Mine fields, Dragons teeth (tank traps) and barbed wire in the core game now which I think got upgraded to plastic in one of the stretch goals? Might not have yet, not sure. Either way we have them here now with us forever!
Air units are in the plan, just waiting for us to get there
Blackadder - When we were brainstorming ideas for promo models I never thought of blackadder, I do not know what is wrong with me.
Dice and the 5 and 6
The dice with only have the logo on the 6. While currently there are no things that adjust the dice roll, we do have some planned, so we can't hard wire the dice to the 5 and 6.
Decals - I think we have a line on water slide transfers. Hopefully this will pan out and we will have those!
Plugs and their powers - Each plug has a different power, this can vary from simple yet awesome things like +1 move or range etc to a new attack (via the turrets for example or I think the vet but his rules are not set yet) to crazy things like calling in air strikes.
Third faction - best I can say is maybe, but not shortly.
Gameplay options - We are working on some game play scenarios (such as the king of the hill I mentioned last night) right now! As well as some rules for 2v1 and 2v2 games.
Map campaign - We are talking about a map campaign, I don't think it would be based on the large map as the amount of ground covered there is quite huge though it would have its own.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Descent is a very expensive game due to expansions. There were what, 6-8 expansions by the time they made the move to 2nd Ed? That's a lotta boxes to buy.
I guess I should explain my own reasoning for why I see this thing as worth it:
FFG put out a DOOM boardgame a while back. Over here in Oz it was about AUD$90 (not double what it was in the US, thanksverymuchGW). I own two copies. I have never played it. The miniatures have never left the box. The cards and counters remain unpunched. The tiles, however, have seen more use than almost any set of tiles I own, all for the 40KRPG's. I do not feel that I wasted $180 on a game I've never played because I have certainly got my $180's worth out of those corridor/room tiles.
I own all three editions of Space Hulk, and the reasoning is very similar. I spent $600 back in mid 2005 money getting 1st and 2nd Ed Space Hulk (plus 1st Ed's two expansions). I got tons of minis out of it, and now have nearly 150 Genestealers, and a lot of tiles. Again, all of these have coming handy even if I've not played the game itself.
Sedition Wars? Bought it for the minis and the tiles (of which I bought two sets). I want to make an X-Com board game using the pieces from it (and that gives me an idea - the minis from DOOM could work well here as well). If the game is good, then great, but that'll be a bonus.
To put it all another way, I'm looking for versatility. This game looks like fun, plus the trench tiles could be useful elsewhere. Zombicide is a great game, and I own two tile-sets in case I need to do a detailed abandoned city for any game I may be running. I've spent hundreds on D&D tiles and maps, and I've only ever played D&D twice in my life, but I've used all of them quite a bit.
If a game turns out to be really good then that's great, but that's not the only criteria I base a game's worth on. How much use I can get out of everything in the game, even not within the context of the game, is far more important.
Yeah, but by the same token, Descent was (and is) a fully-fledged, self-contained game. If you want to buy expansions, then go for it. But those are separate products. Doom is supposed to be quite good,
BTW. I do agree with you on Sedition Wars and understand the broader point. I bought 2 sets myself - basically a gakload of figures and 40k-friendly tiles that also have a game attached to them. I also bought close to two full extra sets of Space Hulk 3rd ed tiles for the 40kRPGs myself. With this game, I don't see the box contents as particularly versatile. If you see the tiles as pure awesome, then more power to you. I'm personally not that impressed with them at this stage, and I see no "exterior" use for the figures, as they're very stylised. Unlike Sedition Wars which are much more generic sci-fi.
I don't see any exterior use for these figures either, but like SDE, I think it'll be a fun game. Once we hit the stretch goal that doubles the infantry, then it will be really worth it to me.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I don't see any exterior use for these figures either, but like SDE, I think it'll be a fun game. Once we hit the stretch goal that doubles the infantry, then it will be really worth it to me.
There's still plenty of time for stretch goals. I'm sure by the end of things, it'll all be a better value. Of course, this is assuming that the majority of goals don't come with additional fees.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I don't see any exterior use for these figures either, but like SDE, I think it'll be a fun game. Once we hit the stretch goal that doubles the infantry, then it will be really worth it to me.
There's still plenty of time for stretch goals. I'm sure by the end of things, it'll all be a better value. Of course, this is assuming that the majority of goals don't come with additional fees.
Live in hope, die in vain!
All kidding aside, as this is a CMON KS, I expect a near 50/50 mix of 'free' (at Sweet Spot) stretches and Pay to Play add-ons...
All kidding aside, as this is a CMON KS, I expect a near 50/50 mix of 'free' (at Sweet Spot) stretches and Pay to Play add-ons...
So far the available options aren't very compelling. If further offerings are as attractive, then I'm in no fear of my pledge ballooning the way it did for Kingdom Death or even Relic Knights.
cincydooley wrote: Yeah, they need to put some more stretch goals or optional purchases up there.
Hahahah!
Oh man... I love Kickstarters @ Dakka.
One minute it's: "Why aren't there more free included stretch goals?" and then the next it's "They need to put up more paid stretch goals!!!"
I'm not saying I disagree with you here cincydooley, it's just that there will be a litany of people complaining about paid stretch goals and how there are too many the next time they put up another $15 mini.
I'm never going to bitch about not getting free stuff. Ill bitch if I don't think the pledge levels have value to start with (see: through the breach KS). I think out of the box the $90 level is a great value. I thought the Blitzkreig one was initially a bit high. Once I saw the added infantry, I upped my pledge.
Now I just want more reasons to someone money ;-).
Dammit, I need Sedition to get here already to take my mind off this!!
cincydooley wrote: Yeah, they need to put some more stretch goals or optional purchases up there.
Hahahah!
Oh man... I love Kickstarters @ Dakka.
One minute it's: "Why aren't there more free included stretch goals?" and then the next it's "They need to put up more paid stretch goals!!!"
I'm not saying I disagree with you here cincydooley, it's just that there will be a litany of people complaining about paid stretch goals and how there are too many the next time they put up another $15 mini.
Amazing! Different people have different opinions! Holy !!!
So a little bit of news about this, CMON has said that the models for this will be prebuilt. I kind of assumed this would be the case but it seems alot of people on the KS comments thought that you would have to assemble the minis and were upset when CMON announced this. Just a heads up in case anyone was curious.
squall018 wrote: So a little bit of news about this, CMON has said that the models for this will be prebuilt. I kind of assumed this would be the case but it seems alot of people on the KS comments thought that you would have to assemble the minis and were upset when CMON announced this. Just a heads up in case anyone was curious.
Damn, that was one of the things I liked about the initial run of SDE. I recently got the new SDE expansions, it's prebuilt now and it takes me more time to just clean up their assembled models then it would take for me to clean up and assemble unassembled models.
squall018 wrote: So a little bit of news about this, CMON has said that the models for this will be prebuilt. I kind of assumed this would be the case but it seems alot of people on the KS comments thought that you would have to assemble the minis and were upset when CMON announced this. Just a heads up in case anyone was curious.
Damn, that was one of the things I liked about the initial run of SDE. I recently got the new SDE expansions, it's prebuilt now and it takes me more time to just clean up their assembled models then it would take for me to clean up and assemble unassembled models.
I understand. As a wargamer I always prefer unassembled miniatures, but I've learned that in the boardgaming realm its something you rarely get. I already have too much stuff to assemble and paint as is, so maybe this is a blessing in disguise.
They're damned if they do, Damned if they dont in this instance. We can deal with pre-assembled models, though we'd prefer otherwise. They'd lose a lot of support from the boardgame crowd if the models came disassembled.
The fact that they are doubling both the infantry and the cavalry is starting to make the Blitzkrieg a much better deal. I think people were questioning if the 60 dollars extra was worth it and I think this well help push it into the well worth it column. At least for me it does.
Plus with the extra tank for both factions, looking like we will get a pretty decent sized force out of it and I know there is more to come, hopefully the much hinted to air units or second infantry for both factions.
Only thing slightly lacking now is the amount of vehicles for each faction, that could also do with being doubled just to keep things balanced (it's currently at 2 vehicles per side).
It's good to see that they've realised KD:M pricing won't work with this kickstarter the 4 tanks for $20 is a pretty good deal better than the Jetpacker and plug for $15 anyway. They seem to be building the sets up to allow for skirmish level play now.
PsychoticStorm the heroes can be used by either side but only 1 version of each can fielded but very true they are much more suited to the allied side.
DaveC wrote: It's good to see that they've realised KD:M pricing won't work with this kickstarter the 4 tanks for $20 is a pretty good deal better than the Jetpacker and plug for $15 anyway. They seem to be building the sets up to allow for skirmish level play now.
PsychoticStorm the heroes can be used by either side but only 1 version of each can fielded but very true they are much more suited to the allied side.
Because I tried to look for it and didn't find it, not with passion I will admit, does this mean both sides can have them and duplicates can exist on the table or that only one side can have them on the table, but both sides can field them?
AFAIK either side can field them but you can only have 1 of them in play during the game so if the Allies are using the Man in Charge then the blight can't use him and vice versa and if he gets killed the other side can't then use him there's only 1 and the side is locked in once picked.
Just double the infantry to 24 per side, and the cavalry to 8 per side. Quick math says 86 if you count both the characters and their respective plugs.
The two (four) tanks for $20 looks quite good. I know there are some pictures of them out there, but are there any of them next to "normal" miniatures? I'm thinking they maybe able to be used in Weird-WW2 games if the sizes are compatable and they don't look too Chibi.
You're right on the pricing, DaveC. I imagine that while some people went for the Rocketeer for $15, it probably wasn't exactly a huge seller. The fire sale price on the tanks may be an attempt to regain lost ground from that stretch.. especially when you note that the already-included tanks are being sold for $20 each by comparison.
A lot of people seem to be very unhappy with this Kickstarter judging from the Kickstarter comments page and the Board Game Geek forum. I am personally very happy with it and whilst the base game does cost more then Zomibicide I think we just as good value for money and I know it will get get even better before the end of the campaign (still 20 days to go). Coolmini confirmed that planes are also a planned stretch goal so hopefully we see them shortly as well as those alternate infantry units that have been mentioned a few times.
Must everything be so dramatic, or hide a hidden meaning?
Kickstarter + DakkaDakka = DramaDrama!
Whilst maybe phrased a bit Dramatic there is some truth to it, the pledged amount dropped by 1k or so a few times today and did the same yesterday (most recently at the new tank addon/stretch goal as that seems to have upset people). I wouldn't be surprised if they lost 50 backers since Friday (although have made it up and some since but still see people dropping out or reducing pledge to $1).
And? This has some great meaning? People drop out, new people come in. It's not as if this is the first Kickstarter where this has happened. I know people who stuck with the Mantic one almost right to the end, but then pulled out. Did Mantic do something wrong? Did they "lose ground" and need a "fire sale" to make up for the great and many social faux pas they committed against an innocent customer base?
As far as comments on BGG... these are the same people who complained bitterly about Zombicide, and about Sedition Wars and probably about every other Kickstarter. I'd give them the same level of credence as I would YouTube comments...
Must everything be so dramatic, or hide a hidden meaning?
Kickstarter + DakkaDakka = DramaDrama!
I think you're the one being a drama queen here, as you've shown with your posts throughout this thread.
A lot of us like to analyse and think about the things that go on in games and kickstarters, and why they happen. Of course, others simply decide to whine endlessly that "Jervis stole my chocolates", "I hate GW and everything that they stand for" or fanboi things to the extreme.
So put on a grown-up hat for a moment and think about it logically: At this point, CMON has run several Kickstarters and has a pretty good idea of where they want to be by which day - particularly early on as we are now. They're fully aware of the free goal/stetch goal system, and they know how it works, very well. With the recent KDKS, they saw that $15 add-ons were possible, and tried it on. Despite the fact that you jumped on it as a great deal or whatever, it doesn't appear to be all that popular - in more ways than one. The result is that I imagine they are not as far forward with their stretch goals/running total as they would like to be. Given that the existing tanks are $20 each, $20 for 4 seems an incredibly good deal.
My posit is that this particular deal is so good in order to reignite some movement and make up for the lost ground that they would have had when their only add-ons were expensive base-game tanks, dice and a few $15 chibi figures (2 of which they were already giving away). It was probably planned quite similarly, but with one American tankbot for $20 adding a the Hanomagbot at the stretch point. This will now kickstart movement again and make some of the unhappy people into happy people. CMON is very good at running Kickstarters (at least until they have your money in hand). Everything they do is for a reason, in this case they're offering 4 tanks when they could have probably sold 2 for the same add-on price to a lot of people. None of their goals are set in stone until they're "released" - on price or exact numbers of models, which allows them to cleverly adapt as the campaign progresses. If you think this is simply coincidence or "how they planned it all along", then I've probably been giving you too much credit until now. Of course, this being the internet, no amount of argument will convince you to actually admit that you think you might have been wrong or change your opinion.
Well now they are certainly reacting to complaints that Blitzkrieg isn't good value and that 2 regular sets is perceived to be better at the same cost - 8 more new infantry miniatures upcoming
Project Update #11: Infantry rush! Sometimes the boys need a few... specalists...
Posted by CoolMiniOrNot Like
Since the double infantry stretch is fast approaching.... how's about some different tactical options?
The rocket bikes are down and the blight are coming strong with a charge of monowheels. What can the allies do? Call in... the Mountaineers! Rushing to the front with their magnetic bombs, the mountaineers have no fear and throw themselves into the enemy charge. With deadly accuracy they dispatch one mechanized monster after another leaving the field clear for a counter attack! 4 free Mountaineers added to Blitzkrieg!
When the call goes up that Trench Raiders have broken through the lines most soldiers either run or stand frozen with fear. The raiders are brutal and vicious fighters who bully their way through the ranks of their enemies. Throwing grenades and blasting away with their trench guns, the Raiders are a force that is best avoided and not engaged. 4 free Trench Raiders added to Blizkrieg!
The Blitzkrieg! pledge level certainly is more attractive and more in line with what I expect of it. I'll definitely be adding those 4 vertical tanks. The Blight are quickly becoming my favorite.
scipio.au wrote: My posit is that this particular deal is so good in order to reignite some movement and make up for the lost ground that they would have had when their only add-ons were expensive base-game tanks, dice and a few $15 chibi figures (2 of which they were already giving away). It was probably planned quite similarly, but with one American tankbot for $20 adding a the Hanomagbot at the stretch point. This will now kickstart movement again and make some of the unhappy people into happy people. CMON is very good at running Kickstarters (at least until they have your money in hand). Everything they do is for a reason, in this case they're offering 4 tanks when they could have probably sold 2 for the same add-on price to a lot of people. None of their goals are set in stone until they're "released" - on price or exact numbers of models, which allows them to cleverly adapt as the campaign progresses.
That's my guess as well. The goals aren't set and can be dynamically altered by CMON based on funding progression (or lack thereof).
The $15 Jetpacker was a bad deal. It leveraged heavily on the Rocketeer's popularity and even with the additional plug unit every hero now gets still isn't that good of a deal. $10 would have been a more reasonable, fair deal.
I think they'll try and sweeten the pot a bit more before the end - maybe give him a sidekick.
And at nearly the same time I get my update about these awesome mountaineers, I get my update that Evil Baby Orphange's Stretch goals will be late..... by three months..... because of the plushie.
In the Sedition Wars thread (also a CMoN kickstarter), there are some serious complaints about the quality of the plastics that have been arriving...
Before anyone freaks out: it's that Sediation Wars, a mass produced Boardgame, has Boardgame level plastics rather then being small run resin cast level of quality.
It doesn't look to be any worst then Super Dungeon Explore or Zombicide.
Before anyone freaks out: it's that Sediation Wars, a mass produced Boardgame, has Boardgame level plastics rather then being small run resin cast level of quality.
It doesn't look to be any worst then Super Dungeon Explore or Zombicide.
Still though people I bet have higher expectations since McVey is connected.
Before anyone freaks out: it's that Sediation Wars, a mass produced Boardgame, has Boardgame level plastics rather then being small run resin cast level of quality.
It doesn't look to be any worst then Super Dungeon Explore or Zombicide.
Still though people I bet have higher expectations since McVey is connected.
Just means they are nicely sculpted Boardgame plastics.
H.B.M.C. wrote: But if they're badly cast who cares how well they're sculpted?
QFT, my (limited) experience with McVey was excellent sculpts and the best casting I've ever encountered. This is rather disappointing, and calls in to question any further projects I see CMoN doing...
H.B.M.C. wrote: But if they're badly cast who cares how well they're sculpted?
QFT, my (limited) experience with McVey was excellent sculpts and the best casting I've ever encountered. This is rather disappointing, and calls in to question any further projects I see CMoN doing...
It is too late as they probably burned me on Relic Knights as well (though I hope not!), but this could (and possible should) really cause people to be VERY cautious with CMON's future efforts...
Boardgame or miniatures game. It doesn't matter in this case. You're being deliberately obtuse. It wasn't sold on the back of "boardgame quality figures". It was sold on the back of McVey's existing miniatures output and quality. They're not descibed as "playing pieces", but "miniatures". Poor quality miniature components have the potential to hurt McVey's credibility quite badly.. along with the thin tiles and off-centre tokens.
On the other hand, perhaps we should all "Quite being crucial"...
If Studio Mcvey was producing a miniatures game, I'd with you about being upset. But since it was CMON doing a Boardgame, and it looks to be on par with there boardgames, I think you expected far too much.
I'd expect Relic Knights to be on par with... I cannot remember the name of there gritty skirmish game ATM, along with WoK and Confrontation.
Rivet Wars should be the same as SDE, Zombicide, Sedation Wars, and other CMON boardgames
scipio.au wrote: Boardgame or miniatures game. It doesn't matter in this case. You're being deliberately obtuse. It wasn't sold on the back of "boardgame quality figures". It was sold on the back of McVey's existing miniatures output and quality. They're not descibed as "playing pieces", but "miniatures". Poor quality miniature components have the potential to hurt McVey's credibility quite badly.. along with the thin tiles and off-centre tokens.
On the other hand, perhaps we should all "Stop being crucial"...
Off-center tokens is something I'd give them way more leeway on: having worked in print, everything cut has a 1/8" margin of error, which is more and more obvious, the smaller the object the proportionally larger the error appears. That's something that isn't even about the benefit of the doubt but about printing limitations.
The other stuff I completely agree on, CMoN and McVey are both known for minis and have their reputation based on that. I'll be pretty pissed if they have subpar casting.
Cyporiean wrote: If Studio Mcvey was producing a miniatures game, I'd with you about being upset. But since it was CMON doing a Boardgame, and it looks to be on par with there boardgames, I think you expected far too much.
I'd expect Relic Knights to be on par with... I cannot remember the name of there gritty skirmish game ATM, along with WoK and Confrontation.
Rivet Wars should be the same as SDE, Zombicide, Sedation Wars, and other CMON boardgames
Sedition Wars Kickstarter wrote:
Sedition Wars : Battle for Alabaster is a fast paced tactical miniatures game for two players,
From the mind of industry legend Mike McVey, and created by the finest artists, miniatures sculptors and game designers, the contents and play materials of the game are of the highest quality.. Sedition Wars : Battle for Alabaster represents the best that miniatures gaming has to offer!
The game contains –
50 highly detailed 28mm miniatures
----
We're doing this Kickstarter to give Mike's legions of fans (gulp) a chance to get in on the ground floor, as well as gauge demand and interest in Sedition Wars. The game is ready to go to tool, with sculpting and art complete! If you love great sci-fi miniatures, then here are the various pledge levels. We appreciate any help we can get!
scipio is on fire! Just need MLA to make those citations perfect. (Sorry, Cyporiean, I often agree with you, but I think you're on the wrong side, here.)
I also think it's worth stressing that I don't expect the same quality as McVey's limited edition resin or anything, but I do (did) expect something comparable to either GW/Renedra's hard plastics, or Mantic or PP's Restic.
When I get mine in hand in 2-3 weeks I'll have more to say, obviously.
I was really hoping to get a new sculpt or two for the basic troopers though. With the new stretch goal you'll get a boatload of them and, as far as I can tell, there are only two variants of the sculpt on the basic trooper (one bearded, one not).
Oddly, I hope they don't add too much for the two basic factions - as I'm hoping as we get up there in stretch goals to see a third, and I don't want them to be too far behind.
In one of their comments they said the figures in this kickstarter will be made from the same factory that makes dust stuff, so they should be comparable to that.
scipio.au wrote: Boardgame or miniatures game. It doesn't matter in this case. You're being deliberately obtuse. It wasn't sold on the back of "boardgame quality figures". It was sold on the back of McVey's existing miniatures output and quality. They're not descibed as "playing pieces", but "miniatures". Poor quality miniature components have the potential to hurt McVey's credibility quite badly.. along with the thin tiles and off-centre tokens.
On the other hand, perhaps we should all "Stop being crucial"...
I chuckled when I saw that on their forums. Lord forbid I actually voice an opinion on a product I bought which isn't as advertised, or think that a company that doesn't communicate info in a timely manner should do so. It makes me a whiney butt.
I'm hoping my copy arrives today or tomorrow. I'll hold off on too much judgement on the actual product until I have it in hand.
So it looks like they hit the 220k stretch goal just now. 5K more and its double the infantry models, which is a pretty big upgrade. This thing is starting to move along quite nicely.
I do have my copy of Sedition wars handy, and my resins too. I honestly do not see any difference from the limited edition resin version (I looked at Barker Zosa because he is my fave!) quality.
I am pretty happy with how they turned our actually, I expected worse.
I'm in for an extra tile set anyway 18 tiles will give a 3x6 or 4x4 set up. I've edited my previous post to put all the upcoming stretch goals in order they are only $5k apart until $250k at least. CMON seem to have acknowledged the slow down in the last few days.
Well that’s pretty normal for a KS from everything I’ve seen. Big rush in the first two days, a high third day, then it sits basically level until the last 2-5 days. The exceptions come when a really good purchasable stretch goal comes along, then you see a spike.
Well, at 5k between stretch goals, it seems there will be alot added to this relatively quickly. I went ahead and added 15$ for the tiles as I thought that would help make the game much better.
Also, I see some complaining and what not on Dakka at times, but holy crap is the comment section on the actual KS a disaster of petty whining and bickering. Maybe I haven't hung around the internet long enough, but its getting a little silly over there.
I've pretty much given up reading the comments it's by far the worst I've seen and I think it's actually putting potential and current backers off having to read through some of what's been put there. I feel bad for Ted it's his game and vision and yet he has to read through that every day.
I tried to get on there and lighten the mood... worked for about 10 minutes. Oh well, at least we're hitting stretch goals. I do wish people realize they're hurting their own cause as I feel that all the negativity is probably driving people away as you said.
I haven't been active in the comments section of this kickstarter and wont ask you to summarize the discontent found there for fear it may infect Dakka. However, it's surprising to know that it's there. I'm not sure what people would bicker over.
Anyway, I haven't upped my pledge yet but I'm definitely going in on those vertical tanks. Soon enough it'll be 4 tanks for $20; how can you pass that up? The Lanskriegers will be mine!
squall018 wrote: I tried to get on there and lighten the mood... worked for about 10 minutes. Oh well, at least we're hitting stretch goals. I do wish people realize they're hurting their own cause as I feel that all the negativity is probably driving people away as you said.
Yeah, there are one or two very overzealous fans of the game and several $1 who really seem to really hate the game and they are just winding each other up over and over again (there are also a number of $1 backers who are providing constructive criticism). I did try to politely point out that they risk scaring off potential new backers once and get a whole lot of grief for it so now I only post on the Comments section to answer questions (and I only answer if I have seen CMON answer the question previously).
I am happy with the new stretch goals, they add a few new canon Blitz exclusive units which is what a lot of people were after and them being larger units is also a nice touch.
Edit: One thing I have noticed is that with earlier Kickstarters CMON have been called up on being unprofessional but they seem to be doing a much better job this time around and have even kept the snide comments to themselves so far.
Anyway, the short distance between stretch goals is really nice. I think I'll add a second set of tiles when I get home (as I think this game would really benefit from a larger playing area.
There have been quite a few early bird spots opening up today (6 that I have seen) which I don't really understand. If you liked something that much to get in there early but not happy with how things have turned out then why not wait until closer to the end of the campaign before backing out just in case the stretch goals change to more things you are interested in? (I know there are other reasons to back out but a lot of people who have stated it's because they were not happy with the stretch goals).
Aeneades wrote: There have been quite a few early bird spots opening up today (6 that I have seen) which I don't really understand. If you liked something that much to get in there early but not happy with how things have turned out then why not wait until closer to the end of the campaign before backing out just in case the stretch goals change to more things you are interested in? (I know there are other reasons to back out but a lot of people who have stated it's because they were not happy with the stretch goals).
Other than "vocally" showing their displeasure by backing out and not looking back, yeah, I don't really get it-- if I were discouraged but not pissed, I'd hang on, since, well, I might change my mind (again).
@Cincydooley. Several people love the design of the miniatures but have a very big dislike for CMON (one was going on about how people should buy Dust rather then support Rivet Wars and was linking to Dust deals in online stores). A few people have bid $1 just to be able to troll the forum. A few people have bid $1 as they are interested in the model designs but not the game and are offering criticsm (some constructive, some not) on what it would take for them to buy the game. A couple of people are massive fans of the game and just post about how amazing the game is along with really bad suggestions as to how they would improve the game (adding aliens seems to be a recurring theme). Each of these groups also seems to hate each other and will use any excuse to start making personal attacks. Mods have been through the comment section now and deleted most of the offending posts, issued warnings and possibly banned some people so it doesn't seem so bad now. First time I have seen a comments page kick off that badly before!
I'll be honest I'm not a backer and was sceptical of the value of the blitzkrieg package. However the stretch goals have definitely turned that around blitzkrieg has pulled into the lead for value for those interested in the game. Personally for me the aesthetic doesn't do it for me though the gameplay looks good. Also prebuilt pushes this much into the more traditional board game territory which is a good thing for those of us with a mini mountain and more to come from other kick starters. Out of the box playability is definitely a plus.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Should support Dust instead of Rivet Wars? What? One is a wargame, the other is a boardgame. Why even make that comparison?
And why do people hate CMON so much?
I don't get the CMoN hate either.
As to Dust: there are some similarities to dust tactics, but the spawning and the movement with the grids is completely different. I mean, primarily the share theme and being played on a gridded board. That's about it.
I'd say it's 'sufficiently large = evil' syndrome.
Regardless of the company, once they hit a certain size they are no longer considered a 'friendly, backwater, human-centric mom-and-pop organisation dedicated to customer happiness' and become the 'evil corporate over-tyrants stealing sweeties from children to fund their unsatiable greed'. And with that mindset anything they do is evil and should be done in a much nicer way...
I have seen allegations that CMON are destroying 'Teds vision' to make a quick profit because they have become massive and greedy. From his frequent posts Ted seems to be very happy with the campaign and CMONs managment of his property.
Things picked up a little over night and the $230k stretch goal has now been met so both types of additional infantry are now unlocked.
Several people love the design of the miniatures but have a very big dislike for CMON (one was going on about how people should buy Dust rather then support Rivet Wars and was linking to Dust deals in online stores). A few people have bid $1 just to be able to troll the forum. A few people have bid $1 as they are interested in the model designs but not the game and are offering criticsm (some constructive, some not) on what it would take for them to buy the game. A couple of people are massive fans of the game and just post about how amazing the game is along with really bad suggestions as to how they would improve the game (adding aliens seems to be a recurring theme). Each of these groups also seems to hate each other and will use any excuse to start making personal attacks. Mods have been through the comment section now and deleted most of the offending posts, issued warnings and possibly banned some people so it doesn't seem so bad now. First time I have seen a comments page kick off that badly before!
Looks to me like some on the "entitelment bandwagon" and the other half shares in the "rabid fanboy movement" and the third group is the "bigger company must be evil rally"
What unites them ist the fact they are far from realistic. And sorry if I have to break it to them an destroy their dreams, but everyone in the gaming business is in it to make a profit. Else we could not design games. Without money it does not work. And who says otherwise is a liar.
Personally, I am on the fence regarding the rules and will probably wait until it shows up in normal retail and read the reviews. But there is no justification to act like this.
And as a person that is involved in the Dust Tactics/Warefare project I feel ashamed of fans of this games that seem it necessary to deride other games to make Dust shine. Dust would be better without such fans.
Aeneades wrote: There have been quite a few early bird spots opening up today (6 that I have seen) which I don't really understand. If you liked something that much to get in there early but not happy with how things have turned out then why not wait until closer to the end of the campaign before backing out just in case the stretch goals change to more things you are interested in? (I know there are other reasons to back out but a lot of people who have stated it's because they were not happy with the stretch goals).
I did this for the Kingdom Death kickstarter. I jumped on one of the early bird specials to take advantage of the discount. I pledged based on my liking some of the miniatures shown. Once information came out about game play I realized it was not a game I was going to be interested in. I figured why wait until the end to back out? By doing it early I allowed someone else to jump in at the discount level earlier. There was no advantage to me for waiting until closer to the end, I knew I wasn't interested in the game.
Perhaps something similar happened with these folks. Perhaps they jumped in early based on something (maybe the minis or theme) and once they got more info decided this was not going to be what they wanted...
@Jake. In all honesty I did the exact same thing for the Kickstarter which I completely forgot I had done when typing that post. For me I was disapointed in the large number of expansions which were increasing the amount I was pledging over what I was willing to spend espeially after at and postage (I know the expansions are optional but being a collector I can't not get them all).
There's a real issue with folk looking at other CMON KS projecgts that have ended and thus reached loads of stretch goals.
The then look at the CMON project that's running as start shrieking that it's terrible value from day one as it does not have all the free stuff that the complete projects do
and they just don't seem to understand that the project has to add cash to add extra stuff s CMON is of cource evil incarnate
The value of what you get at the Blitz level is just ramping up and up. The $20 for four tanks is just golden, and now we’re about to add canine units!
They do need to add a couple of extra paid-only options and one or two more core set upgrades though. The paid-only ones will help get us to the next stretch goal, and the core set upgrades will encourage those not in yet to jump in as well as some core set guys to buy a couple of the add-ons (like the 4 tanks one!).
H.B.M.C. wrote: The value of what you get at the Blitz level is just ramping up and up. The $20 for four tanks is just golden, and now we’re about to add canine units!
They do need to add a couple of extra paid-only options and one or two more core set upgrades though. The paid-only ones will help get us to the next stretch goal, and the core set upgrades will encourage those not in yet to jump in as well as some core set guys to buy a couple of the add-ons (like the 4 tanks one!).
As much as I don't want to put more money in this, I agree that more add-ons would help add some more dollars, especially of they're as good a deal as the 4 tanks for 20$. I jumped on that when I saw it, as well as the extra tiles. This is shaping up pretty well and we still have over two weeks.
I'm glad we got new rivets, but am I gonna sound ridiculous if I say I probably won't use the dogs in the game much as I don't want to send them onto the battlefield to get blown up... I like dogs too much maybe.
H.B.M.C. wrote: The value of what you get at the Blitz level is just ramping up and up. The $20 for four tanks is just golden, and now we’re about to add canine units!
They do need to add a couple of extra paid-only options and one or two more core set upgrades though. The paid-only ones will help get us to the next stretch goal, and the core set upgrades will encourage those not in yet to jump in as well as some core set guys to buy a couple of the add-ons (like the 4 tanks one!).
I'm betting there are plenty more heroes stashed in the wings ready to pry money from our wallets.
I'm not sure what else they could really add to the core set - it seems pretty replete as-is. Maybe some plastic trenches/bridges to go over the trenches? Plastic tank traps?
I feel like they've been super generous with the freebies for Blitz. (which, obviously, I think is great) and they've done a really good job on upgrading the core set a ton too.
1) KD: M cleaned out the game budget for the time being!
2) The Game Budget Savings Initiative is currently being dedicated to the upcoming Confrontation: Phoenix Kickstarter that CMON will be launching sometime this year!
1) KD: M cleaned out the game budget for the time being!
2) The Game Budget Savings Initiative is currently being dedicated to the upcoming Confrontation: Phoenix Kickstarter that CMON will be launching sometime this year!
That's interesting, where have you heard that the Confrontation Kickstarter will be appearing this year?
1) KD: M cleaned out the game budget for the time being!
2) The Game Budget Savings Initiative is currently being dedicated to the upcoming Confrontation: Phoenix Kickstarter that CMON will be launching sometime this year!
That's interesting, where have you heard that the Confrontation Kickstarter will be appearing this year?
No 100% proof but updates 12 and 13 from Guilds of Cadwallon suggets it
it may depend a bit on how they get on identifying and fixing up the masters of the minis which were meant to be in a bit of a state when CMON got them, and how the translation/rewrite of the rules go
Nothings confirmed but it's very likely to be this year although Wrath of Kings is supposed to be next on CMON KS list as that's just about ready to go where as Phoenix still needs some work but there is a Confrontation holder website in place (http://www.confrontationphoenix.com) and Guild of Cadwallon backers will be getting the Beta rules when they are available
1) KD: M cleaned out the game budget for the time being!
2) The Game Budget Savings Initiative is currently being dedicated to the upcoming Confrontation: Phoenix Kickstarter that CMON will be launching sometime this year!
That's interesting, where have you heard that the Confrontation Kickstarter will be appearing this year?
No 100% proof but updates 12 and 13 from Guilds of Cadwallon suggets it
it may depend a bit on how they get on identifying and fixing up the masters of the minis which were meant to be in a bit of a state when CMON got them, and how the translation/rewrite of the rules go
Ah! Superb! Thank you both for the information... That 'sneak peek' is jut gut wrenching, I want more! xD
Looks like I'll be joining you, Alpharius, with the saving... KoD did a number on me too! xD
DaveC wrote: Nothings confirmed but it's very likely to be this year although Wrath of Kings is supposed to be next on CMON KS list as that's just about ready to go where as Phoenix still needs some work but there is a Confrontation holder website in place (http://www.confrontationphoenix.com) and Guild of Cadwallon backers will be getting the Beta rules when they are available
I spoke to Chern Ann yesterday about Wrath of Kings and he indicated it may be a bit farther off than expected. 3ish months away, maybe.
Also interesting to note is that CMoN recently aquired the license/property Ron and Bones from Tales of War miniatures. They had some fantastic boards set up at GC2012 so this is conceivably something that would work INCREDIBLY well as a boxed board game.
DaveC wrote: Nothings confirmed but it's very likely to be this year although Wrath of Kings is supposed to be next on CMON KS list as that's just about ready to go where as Phoenix still needs some work but there is a Confrontation holder website in place (http://www.confrontationphoenix.com) and Guild of Cadwallon backers will be getting the Beta rules when they are available
I spoke to Chern Ann yesterday about Wrath of Kings and he indicated it may be a bit farther off than expected. 3ish months away, maybe.
Also interesting to note is that CMoN recently aquired the license/property Ron and Bones from Tales of War miniatures. They had some fantastic boards set up at GC2012 so this is conceivably something that would work INCREDIBLY well as a boxed board game.
Holy Cow! I've been wondering where the hell Ron & Bones disappeared to! I'd love to see it make a re-appearance, it was one of my favourite lines of minis, truly beautiful sculpts! Thanks for the rumour, 'tis very much appreciated.
That's kind of excessive for that basic of a mini, though it is a nice paint job, and the flat surfaces show off the paint job well... I just don't feel like it would be rewarding to paint.
Ted has added a rough mock up of the Landkrieger and redesigned Vert tank to his website for scale purposes - The Vert tank can now take a plug the old one couldn't
This is looking like a very generous kickstarter! Not my style whatsoever but it is equally fun watching the stretch goals blasted through nonetheless.
DaveC wrote: Ted has added a rough mock up of the Landkrieger and redesigned Vert tank to his website for scale purposes - The Vert tank can now take a plug the old one couldn't
Hm, that look like they'd be rather out of scale for Dust, et al?
I was hopeful. Some of the DUST (and other Weird WW2 stuff out there) is a fair bit smaller. It's still kinda hard to judge the size, since I don't know how the RW figures look next to more traditional miniatures.
The box upgrades look good though - and potentially usable for regular tabletop games as well.
I wonder if the rules will be as complex as Dust Tactics. My girlfriend and stepdaughter really enjoy DT; the game is strategic yet simply eloquent in theory, but with continual expansions it has gotten a bit more difficult for my family members to digest and enjoy.
I wish I could project how much more they will attempt to add into Rivet Wars after the initial release. Sometimes less is more.
Shrapnelsmile wrote: I wonder if the rules will be as complex as Dust Tactics. My girlfriend and stepdaughter really enjoy DT; the game is strategic yet simply eloquent in theory, but with continual expansions it has gotten a bit more difficult for my family members to digest and enjoy.
I wish I could project how much more they will attempt to add into Rivet Wars after the initial release. Sometimes less is more.
With Rivet Wars I get the feeling that expansion content will be more flavor (new factions) than anything else.
The (free) Skirmish rules were confirmed by CMON early in the kickstarter. Hopefully they put some thought into them rather then just rushing something out.
To be fair, any tabletop skirmish rules are likely to only be basic at least, given that this is being developed as a boardgame. I seriously doubt that it is going to get the Andy Chambers type makeover of Dust Tactics. If nothing else the "chiba" look does not look like any "battle" could be taken as too serious, at least in my opinion. I would think if you wanted it would be easier to convert existing rulesets for Steampunk, perhaps the new osprey skirmish level rules will suit?
Watching the play video, it looks llke we are going to get a nice clean system, which although not quite rock-paper-scissors, seems to give the intended feel of putting an RTS on the board. So rather than branch out to tabletop I would prefer them to develop new distinct factions (another RTS trait).
. So when are they actually gonna put rackham minis on a 
