Someone better tell, because i've been a huge Robotech fan for 25 years; I am scheduling a dump truck to come to my house in a month and take all my money and drive to this Kickstarter and dump it all over it.
What do I think? I think that Palladium should have worked on the two books (NGR 1 & 2) they said were almost done and weeks away that they sold via their amateur wannabe kickstarter early last summer instead of coming out with other ones over the past 8 months. I have faith in Soda Pop to make nice minis but none in Palladium. It all depends on who is offering up the kickstarter and what benefits they'll have. Palladium's homemade crowdfunding had ZERO benefits for the consumer (no goals, no add ons, nothing beyond an apparently long term "preorder") so I'll wait to see what this one offers up. I really like robotech and hope that Soda Pop and the new guy do well by it but that will depend on the details and likely how much input Palladium has for the worse....
Yeah that sucks for Paulson, but if I started making renders of Tau Fire Warriors at 1/35 scale, I would totally understand if I couldn't release them.
I will of course delay the money drump truck until I see renders or sculpts first. I could honestly care less about the rules (but if they're great, then yay).
Ninja/Sodapop/Cipher doing the design only bodes well. Kevin S basically points out "hey I do RPGs and RPGs alone" so it looks like he's just handed the project off to more capable people. I'm fine with that.
Ghiest1 wrote: I guess my question would be if you own the licence and have paid for it, then is it really c**K blocking, or enforcing your licence?
Regards,
Carl
I should note that Paulson did not pay for the licence, Palladium did.
Miss the part where he was working with Harmony Gold?
That is the same as owning the license to make miniatures? If I go talk to Dan Abnett can I make my own Space Marine miniatures and market them as such? IF HG doesn't own the rights to the minis it doesn't matter how long they talk, does it? They may have been dicks about it, but as the owners of the license they are within their rights to keep someone from using that license to compete against them.
Palladium has long since had the licence, as I have the books from the early 90s. So was Harmony Gold remiss in making it's licence agreement? I am not sure of course who wrote it, and while he was making them with Harmony Gold's permission, they may have not actually been able by their agreement with Palladium to give that permission. As I stated I do not know what exactly the licence holds, but Palladium has been mentioning this on their forums in the past and it has ramped up in the last year or so. Personally I play their RPGS. Not really a fan of the Robotech RPG however.
Ghiest1 wrote: I guess my question would be if you own the licence and have paid for it, then is it really c**K blocking, or enforcing your licence?
Regards,
Carl
I should note that Paulson did not pay for the licence, Palladium did.
Miss the part where he was working with Harmony Gold?
Aw. I feel bad for Paulson Games. However, they took a shot and missed; It happens all the time. Palladium has the gaming rights for Robotech here in the States and they protected their investment, AND have are launching a product to fill the niche that Paulson found. Perhaps it was a bit Douche-like to let Paulson Games do all the leg-work to generate the feedback, but in the end, if I get good looking miniatures, and a decent game out if it, I'm happy. I'm behind this Kickstarter 100%
Agreed, I absolutely LOVE paulson games' stuff, but I think people are making more of this than there is (many times when things have to be alluded to rather than directly said as facts, I feel this can be the case).
Anyway, I'll be interested in hearing developments about the KS, although I doubt I'll be in for it... but sexy robot models have a way of changing my mind
I'm not really too worked up over the Paulson issue, but I will never support a Palladium product because Palladium has never published a quality ruleset. They make GW look professional by comparison (and that's saying something!)
When half of your core products are just photocopies of your other core products, when half your core rules are just rants by the rules writer about how he knows more about how these things work than other people, that should normally be a warning sign.
Besides, knowing Simbeida he's likely to grab a random concept sketch somewhere he doesn't understand and then make up an entirely new faction that in no way fits the story material at all based on what he thinks it is.
I just think people need to put away the knives. It's fine to not support it. But while we gave Mierce Miniatures, for example, a good drubbing on here because of their shady history, eventually the thread had to move on to the slightly more on-topic discussion of what the kickstarter currently was about.
JOHIRA's post is an excellent warning, though, and that in particular would sway me to stay away from this more than their protecting their license.
Disliking Palladium for their cluncky rulesets makes a lot more sense then being mad at them for protecting their license.
Having read and played Rifts, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and Robotech, I can't imagine they will break the streak and have an elegant, well crafted system this time around, so I can't say I am looking forward to the rules. I am looking forward to the miniatures, if they are well sculpted.
Going through the material on the link this point seems to be the most worrying one
3. The success of Robotech® RPG Tactics™ could be huge for Palladium Books as a company. A successful launch of Robotech® RPG Tactics™ is the final piece of the puzzle to make Palladium Books® strong again. A successful launch will enable us to eliminate debt and give Palladium the resources to hire more staff and more freelance talent and do so much more for ALL our game lines. I already have a dream team of creators lined up to bring on board. They can hardly wait. The excitement is electric.
Now the big question is how big is the debt, who holds it and what happens if the debt is called in ?
if the KS just funds the bank (or whoever owns the debt) might decide a bunch of cash in hand beats regular interest payments and call it in. Then palladium would a KS to produce with little or no free cash and have to go looking for a new investor to complete the project
It went a bit further than that, as I recall. Paulson had some (awesome) minis made, started developing a ruleset and doing promotion for the game. Harmony Gold was into it, but as a result of their (poorly though out, IMO) licensing agreement with Palladium, they couldn't give the go ahead.
So, Palladium tells Paulson no, and then lo and behold: A Robotech miniatures game! A totally original, just thought it up in his bathroom idea by Kevin Siembieda TM.
To top it all off, they then told Paulson to take a hike and started soliciting budget sculptors
Basically they let the guy do all the groundwork and market research and then told him to f-off.
Couple that with the absolutely shoddy production values of their products, and Mr. Siembieda's general bad reputation, I'll pass.
RiTides wrote: I just think people need to put away the knives. It's fine to not support it. But while we gave Mierce Miniatures, for example, a good drubbing on here because of their shady history, eventually the thread had to move on to the slightly more on-topic discussion of what the kickstarter currently was about.
JOHIRA's post is an excellent warning, though, and that in particular would sway me to stay away from this more than their protecting their license.
I'd personally consider their selling of two homemade crowdfunding offers on their site last year that were supposed to be released last summer to be a bit more appropriate warning to potential consumers. They've chosen to work on and release other books that they didn't have paid in advance in the intervening roughly 8 months since the original release date. Even now the two NGR crowdfunded books from early last summer still aren't next on the production block. If Palladium is in charge of this official kickstarter instead of Soda Pop or this newly created for this reason Ninja company, I don't have much faith that they won't do the same thing again. If the past 20 years has taught me anything about RPGs it's that Palladium doesn't learn from their own lessons.
Palladium have pulled too many gak moves in the past and squandered community goodwill twords them. The paulson thing was Icing on the cake compaired to some of the past, almost legendary Siembieda arrogance and attitude in the past. All in all he's a polorizing figure as the holder of this game company.
Not to mention that every shop that you go into has more then thier fair share of Palladium books/ stuff. The reason is that the stuff is not compatable and consistant, then when someone tries to fix it, they get bounced for it. The game background is great, but it takes honest effort to really LIKE the game and deal with the crazy mechanics.
The point of fact is that not a lot of people like the cut of Siembieda's jib. I could go on about "What they say..." but its all water under the bridge at this point.
(The real question to ask him is to ask how that movie is coming along.... )
Then the almost "movie-like" quality of thier "Espionage/ theft" from some so-called "former employee", the negative way in which former contributers and writers have described as being treated, and the way in which he generally has been said to act.
If you think people have a hate on for GW, you don't know hate until you hear from some of the masses on this one. It isn't just one thing, either, there usually is a combination of issues that end up peeing on peoples shoes about Palladium...
Taarnak wrote: It went a bit further than that, as I recall. Paulson had some (awesome) minis made, started developing a ruleset and doing promotion for the game. Harmony Gold was into it, but as a result of their (poorly though out, IMO) licensing agreement with Palladium, they couldn't give the go ahead.
IT still seems like people should be upset at Harmony Gold for leading Paulson along, and Paulson's lawyer should have done his due diligence to ensure the license was available before putting that much work into it.
Taarnak wrote: So, Palladium tells Paulson no, and then lo and behold: A Robotech miniatures game! A totally original, just thought it up in his bathroom idea by Kevin Siembieda TM.
Because no one has ever made a miniatures based mech game before? So should we ignore the (interesting looking) new mech game from Paulson because Battletech and Heavy Gear already exist? What a rip off artist this Paulson is!
Taarnak wrote: Basically they let the guy do all the groundwork and market research and then told him to f-off.
Actually, Paulson did all the groundwork and market research on a license he didn't own.
Taarnak wrote: Basically they let the guy do all the groundwork and market research and then told him to f-off.
Except that (apparently) he didn't do his job right and make an agreement with the people who actually had the license that he needed. I don't see anything about Palladium misleading him with false promises of a deal if he did that work, they just didn't want to deal with him. The fact that someone spends a bunch of effort making something based on your IP doesn't mean you're obligated to buy their work, and you have only yourself to blame if you invest a lot of effort in a project based on someone else's IP without dealing with all the licensing details first.
judgedoug wrote: Yeah that sucks for Paulson, but if I started making renders of Tau Fire Warriors at 1/35 scale, I would totally understand if I couldn't release them.
I will of course delay the money drump truck until I see renders or sculpts first. I could honestly care less about the rules (but if they're great, then yay).
Ninja/Sodapop/Cipher doing the design only bodes well. Kevin S basically points out "hey I do RPGs and RPGs alone" so it looks like he's just handed the project off to more capable people. I'm fine with that.
I would love to have a dumptruck of my own sent over to exchange cash for stuff from this game. Just can't do that in good conscience.
It isn't a case of Palladium protecting their license though. Or, not only that. Paulson went to Harmony Gold who own the IP (for the US anyway; messy situation...) in good faith to see about obtaining a license to produce a miniatures game. See my post above for the rest.
Also, I wouldn't trust ol' Kevin to keep his mitts off of this at all. Too many horror stories from freelancers whose work he entirely re-wrote for me to believe that.
~Eric
Edit:
Palladium does NOT own the Robotech IP. They have an incredibly (too) broad license for it in the US, that is all. See above for why Paulson is NOT an idiot or incompetent.
Taarnak wrote: Paulson went to Harmony Gold who own the IP (for the US anyway; messy situation...) in good faith to see about obtaining a license to produce a miniatures game.
So how is it Palladium's fault that he went to the wrong people to try to negotiate a deal for the license he needed?
Taarnak wrote: Paulson went to Harmony Gold who own the IP (for the US anyway; messy situation...) in good faith to see about obtaining a license to produce a miniatures game.
So how is it Palladium's fault that he went to the wrong people to try to negotiate a deal for the license he needed?
He didn't. Harmony Gold owns the IP, not Palladium. Until they told him that they couldn't grant him license for this because of prior agreements, he had no way of knowing that he should talk to Palladium.
Taarnak wrote: Palladium does NOT own the Robotech IP. They have an incredibly (too) broad license for it in the US, that is all. See above for why Paulson is NOT an idiot or incompetent.
No, they just own the one thing Paulson needed to make a miniatures game. It would seem that if he isn't incompetent, his lawyer is, or Harmony Gold is. The one group here that isn't confused on who owns what, it seems, is Palladium. You can get mad at the wrong people all day if you would like, but that doesn't make you seem reasonable, and it certainly doesn't make you right. Paulson is a good guy and a good company as far as I can tell, but they screwed up in this instance, not Palladium.
Taarnak wrote: Palladium does NOT own the Robotech IP. They have an incredibly (too) broad license for it in the US, that is all. See above for why Paulson is NOT an idiot or incompetent.
No, they just own the one thing Paulson needed to make a miniatures game.
Which, until he talked to the ACTUAL owners of the property, he had no way of knowing.
This would be like me going to FFG to get a license to make a Space Marine action figure. Would that make any sense? Nope. I would go to GW. And things would progress from there.
Taarnak wrote: Paulson went to Harmony Gold who own the IP (for the US anyway; messy situation...) in good faith to see about obtaining a license to produce a miniatures game.
So how is it Palladium's fault that he went to the wrong people to try to negotiate a deal for the license he needed?
He didn't. Harmony Gold owns the IP, not Palladium. Until they told him that they couldn't grant him license for this because of prior agreements, he had no way of knowing that he should talk to Palladium.
~Eric
And, again, how is this Palladium's fault? Why are they responsible for a separate company's failure?
Taarnak wrote: Which, until he talked to the ACTUAL owners of the property, he had no way of knowing.
Then he shouldn't have done all that work on the project until after he has secured the license, or been damn sure who owned the license. This is basic, non-complicated business 101 stuff here.
Taarnak wrote: This would be like me going to FFG to get a license to make a Space Marine action figure. Would that make any sense? Nope.
And yet, that is essentially what he did, and you are trying to make GW out for being the bad guys.
Taarnak wrote: Paulson went to Harmony Gold who own the IP (for the US anyway; messy situation...) in good faith to see about obtaining a license to produce a miniatures game.
So how is it Palladium's fault that he went to the wrong people to try to negotiate a deal for the license he needed?
He didn't. Harmony Gold owns the IP, not Palladium. Until they told him that they couldn't grant him license for this because of prior agreements, he had no way of knowing that he should talk to Palladium.
~Eric
And, again, how is this Palladium's fault? Why are they responsible for a separate company's failure?
That isn't their fault. The way they handled it from there was.
You don't have to agree with me at all. I couldn't really care less. I do care about a guy who seems like a decent fellow and competent producer being called an idiot for following the right steps.
Taarnak wrote: Which, until he talked to the ACTUAL owners of the property, he had no way of knowing.
Then he shouldn't have done all that work on the project until after he has secured the license, or been damn sure who owned the license. This is basic, non-complicated business 101 stuff here.
Taarnak wrote: This would be like me going to FFG to get a license to make a Space Marine action figure. Would that make any sense? Nope.
And yet, that is essentially what he did, and you are trying to make GW out for being the bad guys.
I wasn't making GW out to be anything other than the owner of the Space Marine IP. Not sure what you are after there.
He knows who owned the property, but I'm still not certain you do.
The way I understand things, HG directed Paulson to Palladium, who holds the US rights for Macross. While Palladium voiced interest, they took 6 months to make a decision, all the while letting Paulson build up interest and hype about the idea on forums and Facebook. After all that time, they basically said "f you" and latched on to what he had started.
Taarnak wrote: That isn't their fault. The way they handled it from there was.
And what's wrong with how they handled it? They had absolutely zero obligation, legally or morally, to do anything other than say "we're not giving you the license".
You don't have to agree with me at all. I couldn't really care less. I do care about a guy who seems like a decent fellow and competent producer being called an idiot for following the right steps.
No, the "right steps" would be don't invest lots of work into a project unless you are absolutely 100% secure in all the licensing details you need. He decided not to do it that way, and he has only himself to blame for the wasted work.
JOHIRA wrote:When half of your core products are just photocopies of your other core products, when half your core rules are just rants by the rules writer about how he knows more about how these things work than other people, that should normally be a warning sign.
Besides, knowing Simbeida he's likely to grab a random concept sketch somewhere he doesn't understand and then make up an entirely new faction that in no way fits the story material at all based on what he thinks it is.
You can bitch about Palladium all you want to, it's combat system is clunky and tedious to set up a character. However it is literally the kitchen sink when it comes to RPG's if you want to lay a superpowered luchadore who kills demons with a guitar in a fantasy setting or a cyborg mutant weasel during a zombie apocalypse then their system can accommodate you. Add to the fact they rarely or never obsolete their books and you can count me as laughing at all the rage quitting ex-D&D/Pathfinder players.
I will support this, not because I enjoy Palladium products but because I want unseen Battletech miniatures.
Heh, I think that's going to be two thirds of the market for anything this kickstarter produces--people with no interest in playing a game by Palladium but instead want to play Battletech.
Have loved Robotech for years and would love to see it but Palladium rules are so lacking in every way so just can't see my self supporting this. Played Battletech for years till FASA disappeared now playing Heavy Gear but would love to have a good minature game based on Robotech.
Dice Monkey wrote: You can bitch about Palladium all you want to, it's combat system is clunky and tedious to set up a character. However it is literally the kitchen sink when it comes to RPG's if you want to lay a superpowered luchadore who kills demons with a guitar in a fantasy setting or a cyborg mutant weasel during a zombie apocalypse then their system can accommodate you.
And spend 20 minutes rolling the dice for the first round of combat, where characters will take 200 points of SDC damage and barely feel a scratch.
The ability to expand the content of a pnp RPG isn't really all that special. All it takes is creativity on the part of the GM. I once converted a Robotech Sentinels campaign to run on West End Games's Star Wars D6 system, and it played brilliantly compared to the Palladium system.
Add to the fact they rarely or never obsolete their books and you can count me as laughing at all the rage quitting ex-D&D/Pathfinder players.
Although the power creep that comes with the new books makes the old books for all intents and purposes obsolete anyway. Unless you want to take your original Rifts drifter down to Atlantis for a campaign.
But Palladium isn't really designing the Robotech miniatures game.
I keep reading over the announcement and this is what I glean from it:
HEY GUYS we have the Robotech license.
Palladium only makes RPG's!
So Sodapop will make the game for us.
We'll publish it... and Kickstart it...
and make some money since our company is in debt!
Which is all well and good. Companies like to make money (whether in debt or not), and Palladium/KevinS has at least made the decision to hand development to people who will be better at making a miniatures game. He knows there is a demand for the product, wants it to be successful, and therefore isn't doing it himself.
^^^ honestly it seems like it's the best route Palladium can take for this. Basically totally hands off for designing the game. Publish it, and sit back and make money on a relatively lucrative license.
I'd rather have a Macross branded game, but I'll take what I can get.
I don't like how HG and others have basically usurped a franchise from the original owners, but at least they are doing something with the IP after such a long time.
I'll buy this when Palladuim pays all the other write they ripped off first. You order a manuscript you pay, even if rewrite 60+% of it. Still can't belive so many people donated money to the company after there "friend" who keep the books empty there company acconuts.
If the figs are great, I'll buy in. This was the first RPG I every played and I may not have alot of faith in what they have done in the past, I however still have all the books from the first go around.
Breotan wrote: I wasn't aware Palladium was still in business. I think I might know one person who owns their stuff.
And that one person is Kevin Siembieda. Palladium is owned, operated, and mismanaged by Kevin Siembieda. He and his company are impossible to work for in a professional manner. Since his "Crisis of Treachery" he has all but resorted to pan-handling to cover his debts and I feel like any Kickstarter run by him or his company will only stoke this trend.
I love Robotech as much as the next guy, but I'd rather see it produced by a competent company, a company that is capable of producing a coherent rule-set and one that is capable of managing its own affairs discreetly and professionally.
Palladium is not that company.
I would like to see Palladium forced to sell its Robotech license instead of buoyed into mediocrity by nostalgic fans.
3. The success of Robotech® RPG Tactics™ could be huge for Palladium Books as a company. A successful launch of Robotech® RPG Tactics™ is the final piece of the puzzle to make Palladium Books® strong again. A successful launch will enable us to eliminate debt and give Palladium the resources to hire more staff and more freelance talent and do so much more for ALL our game lines. I already have a dream team of creators lined up to bring on board. They can hardly wait. The excitement is electric.
This paragraph (and the one after it, which is even nuttier regarding all the "top secret" stuff that will take roleplaying "to new heights") would give me a *lot* of pause for different reasons...some involving Palladium and its history, and some not.
If this was about 25 years ago, I'd be all over this. His Robotech RPG (and any other Palladium RPG with similar dynamics) never worked well IMO just because of the challenge (impossibility?) of roleplaying complex combats between wildly dissimilar units traveling at wildly different speeds. I even did some preliminary work on a hex-based system for handling these kinds of combats. Again, this was almost 25 years ago that I identified this problem and tried to do something about it. Just saying.
Grot 6 wrote: Palladium have pulled too many gak moves in the past and squandered community goodwill twords them. The paulson thing was Icing on the cake compaired to some of the past, almost legendary Siembieda arrogance and attitude in the past. All in all he's a polorizing figure as the holder of this game company.
Not to mention that every shop that you go into has more then thier fair share of Palladium books/ stuff. The reason is that the stuff is not compatable and consistant, then when someone tries to fix it, they get bounced for it. The game background is great, but it takes honest effort to really LIKE the game and deal with the crazy mechanics.
The point of fact is that not a lot of people like the cut of Siembieda's jib. I could go on about "What they say..." but its all water under the bridge at this point.
(The real question to ask him is to ask how that movie is coming along.... :facepalm):
Then the almost movie-like quality of thier "Espionage/ theft" from some so-called "former employee", the negative way in which former contributers and writers have described as being treated, and the way in which he generally has been said to act.
If you think people have a hate on for GW, you don't know hate until you hear from some of the masses on this one. It isn't just one thing, either, there usually is a combination of issues that end up peeing on peoples shoes about Palladium...
Caveat Emptor
And yet people have given over $160,000 to Mierce, fresh off of Rob Lane ripping them off.
As a critic of Palladium's RPG systems, I don't see myself throwing money at this KS, but as a Robotech fanboy, I know it'll be hard not to.
Palladium also has a bad history of not paying freelancers or dicking them around for months before they are paid.. They sue fan websites and fanzines at the drop of a hat and have been even worse than GW at trying to extend their trademarks beyond their reach.
A while back a employee embezzled a bunch of money from Palladium and Kevin Sembeida went to the gaming public with the sad tale and solicited donations to help keep the company afloat. Unfortunately when the case ended up in court, it was shown that the amount stolen was far, far less than what Kevin Sembeida claimed. He claimed that it was upwards of a million dollars stolen, but the court arrived at the final number of $47,080.
He basically embellished his plight to solicit donations to keep his company afloat.
I have exactly zero interest in the rules coming from Paladium. I just want minis of some BT "unseen".
I'm hoping for an option in the kickstarter to buy minis that are close in scale to BT or Mechwarrior for a good price (BT mech prices) preferably without the rules or with rules as a toss-in PDF.
If the mini prices are unreasonably high or only packaged with rules I don't want to pay for, I'm fine with passing this game by.
As for the Paulson games thing, yes, he was treated somewhat disrespectfully by Paladium, but not illegally, and certainly not in an un-businesslike manner. In business you (choose to) pays your money and you (choose to) takes your chances.
I do wish him all success in his own endeavor however.
The Robotech RPG worked, for suitably kind definitions of 'worked' back int he late 80s when I was into it. From what I heard, a lot of people tried various house rules to make it more acceptable. If I was customizing rules for it, some guidelines I'd want:
1. The source material is anime, but relatively 'serious' anime (with exceptions, of course). Rules should support and encourage that characters are a bit cliche.
2. Combat rules should probably be a bit abstract, with options/powers/whatever to fit certain tropes the source material is known for such as...
4. Give a role to all weapons the canon mecha carry. So a base Veritech has a big gun pod, the head lasers, no nose lasers and some 'options' like the various armor packages, missiles on hard points, etc. Each needs a reason to favor it.
5. Support for 'Macross MIssile Massacres' that let heroes (and major enemies) unleash ridiculous amounts of missiles.
6. Characters should be just a bit better-than-human, and allow stunting. Want to catch a falling character in a mecha-sized manipulator while flying? Sure! Roll for it... if you're Elite Mecha Ace, you have a good chance of doing it.
7. Transforming mecha should matter. Possibly different skills for different modes to balance things out (or feats to differentiate. Max is amazing in all forms, while Rick is best as a fighter pilot due to his background.).
8. Make mecha 'work' by designing scenarios and abilities to take advanatge of manipulators and such.
9. Veritechs are the 'stars' of the Macross era, so add in support to differentiate different pilot archetypes/classes so an all-Veritech-Pilot group is normal. Compare to the 40kRPGs: This is like playing Deathwatch where everyone is a Space Marine, but chapter/specialty differentiates them. Not sure if Macross has meaningful canon variants of the Veritech, but other eras have multiple mecha with different specialties. (For example, in the Invid Invasion, there's regular cyclones, a melee/close combat/sneaky cyclone, etc. along with multiple variants for the Alpha and Beta flyers)
10. Use a mook system of some kind for enemies. Embrace the trope that the heroes can mow through basic bad guys, but any bad guy that makes a Dramatic Entrance, gets named, and gets a lot of GM description is probably going to be a tougher fight.
11. Encourage/reward play that isn't just a string of military missions. Any published scenarios should ideally have subplots that focus on dismounted sections, being cut-off or forced to oppose the command, or at least some investigation to encourage use of skills and abilities beyond selecting which weapon to shoot.
These are, of course, RPG suggestions not wargame guidelines.
I think generally people agreed that the best way to play the Robotech RPG was to use the text and pictures as source material for converting to Mekton II or Mekton Zeta.
Hopefully the game is 99% Soda Pop Games. Siembedia tends to be just as bass ackwards about things as GW.
I'd feel bad for Paulson, but the intro paragraph for his Kickstarter reads too much like sour grapes, and he has the same "I like Macross, except for everything that makes it Macross." attitude as too many neckbeards.
RogueRegault wrote: reads too much like sour grapes, and he has the same "I like Macross, except for everything that makes it Macross." attitude as too many neckbeards.
My project is western styled mecha and themes, it's not meant to be Macross so I don't get where the sour grapes/neckbeards comments is from.
I love Macross, but like most other anime it has some majorly annoying characters screechy voices and rather dumb plot points. Even when I was watching it at 10 years old I found a lot of the "love drama" and "anti-war during war" devices really poorly done and unbelieveable. (It has nothing to do with Palaldium) It's how the show was written, there's just a lot of sappy and needless elements in it. As a kid I lived for Macross yet as much as I've enjoyed the show I've always felt most episodes could be cut down by 95% to just the mechs scenes and it'd make it worlds better.
I likewise can't stand the new gundam series, lines barrels or many other series for having bratty high school kids with high pitch whiney voices and psychic powers while driving multi billion dollars warmachines they happened to find in a park or some other craziness.
My robot genre preferences are based on more gritty realistic stuff like fang dougram, votoms, armored core, appleseed, and the pure military elements present in small amounts within macross. (not the soap opera parts) I think there's a large differance in how those settings are approached as a more serious sci fi genre.
I fully supported Paulson games in his Robotech endeavors (hell, I started most of those threads here). I was QUITE upset at how Palladium handled the situation and had been long since done with the company even before that despite being a longtime fanboy. However, I'm not sure any of that could possibly keep me away from an actual Robotech miniatures game. Robotech was the entire reason I started watching anime, started reading for fun (I adored those old Jack McKinney books everyone hates). Robotech got me into gaming via the RPG and playing miniatures via Battletech AKA Robotech & Pals: The Game. Playing the Robotech RPG back in high school got me some very good friends I still have to this day.
I'm of course incredibly worried about it being done by Palladium as I'm all too familiar with their abysmal track record, but it sounds like Soda Pop/Cryptic is doing all the important work on this one which leads me to have some hope for it. The Soda Pop figs are fantastic, and I had a MAJOR nerdgasm when Siembieda mentioned a possible 28mm Cyclone. Robotech minis are something I've wanted since I was a little boy, and if they're half as good as the Relic Knights stuff I'll trade my own mother for any one of them. Even a bungled, unplayable product would be a decades long dream come true. I will probably be supporting Paulson's Mecha Front kickstarter. I will almost certainly be buying into the Robotech Tactics kickstarter.
Lucifer himself could run this kickstarter with Hitler writing the rules and Games Workshop making the figures. I'd still buy into it.
Being someone who owned entirely too much of Palladium's Rift setting, and every sourcebook for Robotech (even bought the new stuff out of a sense of nostalgia), and a good deal of their other worlds, I can safely say I am... wary of giving more money to a company that seems to be actively fighting against the idea of moving into the modern age, even more so than Games Workshop.
Having read multiple interviews with folks who have worked with Palladium, I found myself more and more disappointed... not upset... just disappointed, with how the company was being run. And sadly, it made a lot of things that my friends and I always wondered on make a tremendous amount of sense; from rehashed rules and artwork, to power creep the likes GW has never even hinted at, to years long delays of books announced.
It's true, that they've never made a book invalid... because they also refuse to update a system that is, at best, clunky, and at worst completely unintelligible. The skill system advancement is described differently in at least 2-3 books I can think of off hand, and the combat ranges from laughable to unbelievably deadly. Palladium was able to get away with this for quite some time for much the same reason that GW has... for the longest time, they were the biggest kid on the market. There were other systems, sure, but as someone said... you can take any character, from any setting, and toss them into another and at the core level the rules will transfer over. Your fantasy elf archer with the magic bow? Yeah you can play that. Oh, you want to run your mutant hero with fire powers and super strength? Sure, that'll work, here's the conversion. Giant mecha run by a psionic mind mage who will feed off the souls of those he kills? That's the core rulebook. A knight empowered to battle starships in space? Here's a sourcebook. Demigod... dragon... mage... you name it, they had a book for it.
The problem? Balance was a laughable concept. The other problem was all the other systems that Palladium basically pushed around decided to grow, expand, rethink their rules and work them into fine and streamlined systems in many cases (this brought on its own share of issues, but that's another topic for another day) while Palladium stubbornly stuck to its guns, refused to even admit the system had even the most basic problems, and was left behind. Picking up books that only came out a couple years ago... it has not been improved.
So while I may look at the miniatures I will be very, very wary of giving more money to a company that, while a source for fond memories in high school, has left me saddened that they cannot grow past a wall of arrogance and irrational behavior. Even GW grudgingly has taken some steps forward to keep up with modern media (recent actions notwithstanding), while Palladium, to my knowledge, looks for methods of hand binding books rather than use PDFs and or digital printing, which would save them innumerable amounts of capital.
TLDR, Paulson was talking with Harmony Gold about making Robotech minis, made some fantastic sculpts. Palladium cock-blocked him.
Yep, count me out as well for the same reason.
Id like to say the same, but at the same time the Battletech fan in me yearns for some unseens. If the minis were really great Id have a hard time turning away from a handful. If they made Invid...that would only make it even worse.
My involvement in this will also likely depend on the involvement of palladium. If they're the ones running the kickstarter and the money goes to them directly, I have ZERO faith in them meeting their obligations in a timely fashion similar to how they still haven't met their homemade crowdfunding ones. If it looks like Soda Pop is in charge of this (or possibly the new Ninja company), then some previews of the rules and actual mini pics can sway me into paying.
Palladium has done their own crowdfunding of projects through their own website, and failed to deliver in anything remotely like a timely fashion.
This project needs to be as firewalled from Palladium as humanly possible, but given how much of a massive control freak Kevin Sembeida is, I doubt that will happen.
Palladium has done their own crowdfunding of projects through their own website, and failed to deliver in anything remotely like a timely fashion.
This project needs to be as firewalled from Palladium as humanly possible, but given how much of a massive control freak Kevin Sembeida is, I doubt that will happen.
Yeah, it's somewhat sad that I can firmly say that I'd trust a completely new frankenstein company created just to come out with this game over one that got me into RPGs in the first place and has 30 years of experience... but it's true. I don't trust Palladium to do anything right on their own at this point (unless "right" means to just keep doing the same thing they did in 1990 but with less mullet haircuts).
SO long as we're irrationally nerd raging I am boycotting this project because of the involvement of Harmony Gold and Robotech. For decades they've butchered the translation of the original works, changed names and plot points and branded what is frankly a landmark of Japanese animation as their own work.
Wake me up when someone makes Macross Tactics.
Or alternately when I can pick up some of these...
Or alternately when I can pick up some of these...
www.hlj.com has those Mac II Monsters available for $17, way cheaper than you're likely to get from any miniatures company. For being 25 yeras old it's a great kit, I picked up 3.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: SO long as we're irrationally nerd raging I am boycotting this project because of the involvement of Harmony Gold and Robotech.
Since when is not trusting a company that hasn't lived up to the previous two crowdfunding obligations but is planning yet another one "irrationally nerd raging"?
If the miniatures can be used for Battletech I'll pick them up when they are in stores. Palladium makes good rules like GW cuts prices. And Harmony Gold is the worst company on the planet. But I always need me more Warhammers for Battletech.
Or alternately when I can pick up some of these...
www.hlj.com has those Mac II Monsters available for $17, way cheaper than you're likely to get from any miniatures company. For being 25 yeras old it's a great kit, I picked up 3.
Do they now... I was about to start hitting the model shops in Japan for one.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: SO long as we're irrationally nerd raging I am boycotting this project because of the involvement of Harmony Gold and Robotech.
Since when is not trusting a company that hasn't lived up to the previous two crowdfunding obligations but is planning yet another one "irrationally nerd raging"?
KK, I normally find you hilarious, and very informative.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: SO long as we're irrationally nerd raging I am boycotting this project because of the involvement of Harmony Gold and Robotech.
Since when is not trusting a company that hasn't lived up to the previous two crowdfunding obligations but is planning yet another one "irrationally nerd raging"?
Nah that's all totally rational, same with the complete lack of faith in Palladium's ability to write rules (that being said I had 10x more fun playing Rifts than I ever did playing Champions or Shadowrun, the whole @#$% balance let's have fun thing somehow just works ).
But the whole deal with Paulson Games... just not feeling it. Nothing wrong with doing work on spec, but it has to be on the understanding you might not get the license or might lose it at any time. It happens. That's life.
And it seems Paulson is doing the right thing, taking their work and making their own darn game. Good luck to them!
But Harmony Gold... GRRR still Nerd Raging about how we never got the cool transforming Valkyries only he Chibi SD ones and @#$%ing Jetfire. Nothing wrong with Jetfire mind you, but he ain't no Skull One.
Finally scored a Skull One at a toy store in Nara a few years back. Mmm, Skull One. Sorry what were we talking about...
Finally, in conclusion, I have a Destroid Monster that turns into a space bomber and a robot, which I got at a market in China so really all is well in the world.
Palladium has done their own crowdfunding of projects through their own website, and failed to deliver in anything remotely like a timely fashion.
This project needs to be as firewalled from Palladium as humanly possible, but given how much of a massive control freak Kevin Sembeida is, I doubt that will happen.
Agreed. And the line about paying debts makes me doubt that it is as shielded as we hope. As much as I love Macross, I want to know first how the money from the KS is flowing before I even think about supporting it.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: SO long as we're irrationally nerd raging I am boycotting this project because of the involvement of Harmony Gold and Robotech. For decades they've butchered the translation of the original works, changed names and plot points and branded what is frankly a landmark of Japanese animation as their own work.
Wake me up when someone makes Macross Tactics.
Or alternately when I can pick up some of these...
Yep i rather have the original, Macross, Southern cross and Mospeda
Wait if you are in Japan it should be easy to pick one of those, i could check mandarake or some shops in namba when i go to Osaka
paulson games wrote: Scale shot of the 1/200 monster, it's on a 120mm privateer base. Not bad for $17 where the crisis suit costs $25.
Do you happen to know if the other destroid spartan and defender kits in 1/72 are eqally large? If so I may pick a couple up, but I've never seen a scale shot.
paulson games wrote: Scale shot of the 1/200 monster, it's on a 120mm privateer base. Not bad for $17 where the crisis suit costs $25.
Man I could kick myself...
I had the old metal ( die cast) version of that somewhere, but can't find it. I do have a couple of the old jet fires, and a blue alpha fighter, but passed on the beta fighter because it looked silly. My cousin got my cyclone and Scott Bernard, when I was younger, still peeved about that.
Or alternately when I can pick up some of these...
www.hlj.com has those Mac II Monsters available for $17, way cheaper than you're likely to get from any miniatures company. For being 25 yeras old it's a great kit, I picked up 3.
Do they now... I was about to start hitting the model shops in Japan for one.
How big are they?
The models come in all different sizes. to me, the best size was the 1/144th, or the resin/ vynyl stuff at around 1/6 scale.
I've even seen one at around 3-4 ft tall. In Korea, when I was there, you coild pick up the 1/144th stuff for a few rough bucks.( That was the rough cut from won). In Japan, they have them at a similer or rough price of around 10 bucks or so. Those 3-4 ft tall ones are around a couple hundred or so up to a thousand bucks. Between them all, though-- you can find pretty much any size/ shape and it doesn't take much.
I've even seen a 5 ft tall one. He's pretty special, though. Thats one for the really dedicated.
For you though Kid, heres the one you really want.
Or alternately when I can pick up some of these...
www.hlj.com has those Mac II Monsters available for $17, way cheaper than you're likely to get from any miniatures company. For being 25 yeras old it's a great kit, I picked up 3.
Do they now... I was about to start hitting the model shops in Japan for one.
How big are they?
The Bandai kits are pretty close to scale - take the stated height...divide by 200 in that case (or other scale multiplier for other kits). I snag up ones in my scale fairly often. They also do various models in 1/144, 1/100, 1/72, 1/60 and 1/48. If HLJ doesn't have them, take a look at 1999.co.jp
One thing that people need to remember when getting all bent out of shape is that in Japan - none of these types of items can be copyrighted. Games and toys are not protectable over there - so it ends up becoming a problem when they start licensing things for sale/development over here...they just don't have a specific point of reference within their own business practices. You can find a lot of examples of this coming up in the past 30 some odd years dealing with all sorts of product lines which come out of Japan (and Harmony Gold seems to be involved in about half of them).
Finally, in conclusion, I have a Destroid Monster that turns into a space bomber and a robot, which I got at a market in China so really all is well in the world.
Palladium enforced their legal rights. Paulson games should have realized the debacle with these licensing before they started doing the sculpts or worked with Palladium.
This is like someone complaining they started making copies of warhound titans and GW was like um no we have the rights to these, so they refuse to buy GW Products. There are plenty of reasons to embargo GW, but that would not be one.
Likewise, Palladium did not condone Paulson to make the sculpts.
As much as SodaPop makes some neat/cutsie kind of miniatures, not too excited about them doing Robotech.
IdentifyZero wrote: Palladium enforced their legal rights. Paulson games should have realized the debacle with these licensing before they started doing the sculpts or worked with Palladium.
This is like someone complaining they started making copies of warhound titans and GW was like um no we have the rights to these, so they refuse to buy GW Products. There are plenty of reasons to embargo GW, but that would not be one.
Likewise, Palladium did not condone Paulson to make the sculpts.
As much as SodaPop makes some neat/cutsie kind of miniatures, not too excited about them doing Robotech.
You REALLY don't understand the licensee/owner situation with regards to Robotech. You also don't have to agree with us. It's cool. Lastly, we were told to drop it and most of us had. Feel free to PM me if you'd like to discuss it further.
Justyn wrote: 1/60 Destroid, next to DFG Leviathan, if you want it next to 28mm or 15mm figures let me know.
Spoiler:
Edited to make the picture work.
Also the 1/72 ones are about 6" tall. A bit too small for 28mm IMO.
Thanks so much! I've had a tough time finding pictures and it's complicated by the fact that macross mechs aren't scaled in relation to each other the way the battletech equivalents are.
I might still pick up a 1/72 model or two as I'm willing to fudge it a bit, but I really appreciate the pic and it makes the 1/60 mechs much more appealing despite the price difference.
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IdentifyZero wrote: I am really looking forward to this kickstarter. It seems like it would do a heck of a lot better than the knockoff system.
Which would that be? I'm always interested in other mech games.
Thanks so much! I've had a tough time finding pictures and it's complicated by the fact that macross mechs aren't scaled in relation to each other the way the battletech equivalents are.
I might still pick up a 1/72 model or two as I'm willing to fudge it a bit, but I really appreciate the pic and it makes the 1/60 mechs much more appealing despite the price difference.
The 1/60 Destroids both scale well to the Armorcast 1/60 Battlemechs and the 1/72 ARII Glaug as a Marauder. If you have any of those you will not want to go with 1/72 Destroids they will be far too small. If you don't have those then you have quite a bit more Leeway, as they all look great next to 25mm or 28mm figures.
I hope the figures for this are really good. I have always liked both Robotech/Macross and Battletech. I even really liked Rifts as a setting. But don't have much in the way of expectations for the Rules.
Here is Soda Pop's release on it
Prepare for invasion! Robotech® RPG Tactics™ is a fast paced strategy battle game that brings the epic combat of Robotech to your tabletop. Take command of the fighting forces of the United Earth Defence Force valiantly defending Earth from alien annihilation, or lead the massive clone armies of the Zentradi Empire to recover an alien artifact of immense power and enslave mankind.
Robotech®RPG Tactics™ is designed in partnership with the makers of the popular Robotech®RPG, Palladium Games, and Ninja Division. Ninja Division brings together the design talents of Soda Pop Miniatures and Cipher Studios, makers of Super Dungeon™ Explore, Relic Knights™, Helldorado™, and Anima Tactics™.
Ninja Division is developing an all new, streamlined rules system that allows you to relive the massive battles on your tabletop at home as a stand-alone game or to enhance your Robotech®RPG adventures. This fast-paced, action oriented system is being developed by lead designers: David Freeman designer of the popular Ultimate Fighting System CCG™ and developer on the Lord of the Rings TMG™; and renowned game designer Alessio Cavatore former designer of the Warhammer™ and Warhammer 40k™ systems by Games Workshop, designer of Kings of War™ by Mantic Games, and owner of River Horse Game Studio.
In addition, Ninja Division is bringing their years of miniature design and manufacturing experience to produce an expansive and dynamic range of plastic game pieces, sure to please fans of Robotech and serious collectors alike.
Make sure to keep up on all our latest announcements for this exciting new project by following Ninja Division's facebook page.
Thanks so much! I've had a tough time finding pictures and it's complicated by the fact that macross mechs aren't scaled in relation to each other the way the battletech equivalents are.
I might still pick up a 1/72 model or two as I'm willing to fudge it a bit, but I really appreciate the pic and it makes the 1/60 mechs much more appealing despite the price difference.
The 1/60 Destroids both scale well to the Armorcast 1/60 Battlemechs and the 1/72 ARII Glaug as a Marauder. If you have any of those you will not want to go with 1/72 Destroids they will be far too small. If you don't have those then you have quite a bit more Leeway, as they all look great next to 25mm or 28mm figures.
.
Thanks for that. The start for my collection is 3 of the Playmates reissue of Robotech Destroid toys. Basically an Archer, Warhammer and Rifleman, and they are all 7 inches. which seems to put them in between 1/72 and 1/60. They are a bit small to be properly scaled for 28mm, but they still look great along side 28mm figs. I've put in an (Back)order for a 1/100 Glaug (Maurader) which is again technically too small, but should look good alongside the mechs I have. Of course it all goes out the window with a pair of what might be 1/72 or 1/60 Valkyries I was given which are the same size as my Destroid toys. BT fans will not like seeing Stingers and Wasps that are the same size as Riflemen and Warhammers.
Luckly I'm not using Battletech Cannon/names, I just want to be able to play MechAttack in 28mm with cool looking robots.
Thanks for that. The start for my collection is 3 of the Playmates reissue of Robotech Destroid toys. Basically an Archer, Warhammer and Rifleman, and they are all 7 inches. which seems to put them in between 1/72 and 1/60. They are a bit small to be properly scaled for 28mm, but they still look great along side 28mm figs. I've put in an (Back)order for a 1/100 Glaug (Maurader) which is again technically too small, but should look good alongside the mechs I have. Of course it all goes out the window with a pair of what might be 1/72 or 1/60 Valkyries I was given which are the same size as my Destroid toys. BT fans will not like seeing Stingers and Wasps that are the same size as Riflemen and Warhammers.
Luckly I'm not using Battletech Cannon/names, I just want to be able to play MechAttack in 28mm with cool looking robots.
Yes I have some of the Playmates as well. The 1/100 Glaug should look great with them. I have a 1/72 Valkyrie That looks good next to the 1/60 stuff as far as B-Tech scale goes, however I rarely use any of the big models in actual games. Cool looking Robots is definitely the way to go. The playmates ones are far cheaper to get a hold of even these days. I envy you there. They just look far too small next to my Armorcast Mechs.
and a photo from it (presumably one of the intended minis for this)
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2013/02/25 20:39:12
That looks exactly like what it should look like. Although I don't like the pose much. Hopefully they will make their figures multi-part to avoid annoying anime poses.
I do not think Paulson's will be any type of knockoff, as he is making his own rules and the mecha appear to be quite large (easier for me to paint). Now they have similarities to Mechwarrior and Armored Core (I like this), but he is sticking with what appears to me to be mecha that are similar in the aspect that they have to be to be recognizable as mecha. Where as Robotech tends to follow anime lines I see Paulson's project as closer to the concepts that have always been in European and American fiction (Mechwarrior, BOLO). Personally I will likely support both by the time it is done because I like mecha. Hell I have 200+ Mechwarrior clickys still, so try to keep this on track about the kickstarter.
Regards,
Carl
I do not think Paulson's will be any type of knockoff, as he is making his own rules and the mecha appear to be quite large (easier for me to paint). Now they have similarities to Mechwarrior and Armored Core (I like this), but he is sticking with what appears to me to be mecha that are similar in the aspect that they have to be to be recognizable as mecha. Where as Robotech tends to follow anime lines I see Paulson's project as closer to the concepts that have always been in European and American fiction (Mechwarrior, BOLO). Personally I will likely support both by the time it is done because I like mecha. Hell I have 200+ Mechwarrior clickys still, so try to keep this on track about the kickstarter.
Regards,
Carl
I question where you get the idea that Paulson's are closer to the concepts in Mechwarrior since Mechwarrior is a derivative game of Battletech and Battletech started with Robotech Destroids for art. I hope to see more of his conecpts, and look forward even more to seeing miniatures. Right now they all look too similar, he needs some variety.
I still think I am more likely to support this KS if the miniatures look good, and if they look to be compatible with B-Tech in scale. I hate HG almost as much as I hate Fox exec's so it won't be a lot of support.
and a photo from it (presumably one of the intended minis for this)
Hmmm not a great translation IMO. I think they need to widen the center head section and do something with the wonky legs. I am quite familiar with the design, its actually one of my faves but the is render did not nail the proportions.
The model seems really thin and underweight, the spartan/gladiator needs to be a bit more squat. I own about a dozen differant versions of the spartan toys and models, I've never seen the kness extended any where close to what's in the render.
Thats part of the problem when you are working with existing IP, unless you nail the design your going to catch some flack because everyone who knows and loves the model will have an expectaion of what it has to be and where it is falling short.... This will help Paulson due to the fact he can go with the 'rule of cool' rather than sticking to the Manga.
It's the knees that really kill it for me. The original design does look to have a little 'cloth' around the knees, but nearly so much. The 3d model looks much more like a guy in a cardboard Comicon Destroid suit. (which would be kind of cool, especially if there was a few of them in a group).
Thinking further: Proportion fail. It's posed like a human-scale bot might get away with, but it's supposed to be a massive, lumbering war machine. Looks more like an agile skirmisher-type. Also, as others have said, the torso is too thin.
Thats part of the problem when you are working with existing IP, unless you nail the design your going to catch some flack because everyone who knows and loves the model will have an expectaion of what it has to be and where it is falling short.... This will help Paulson due to the fact he can go with the 'rule of cool' rather than sticking to the Manga.
Doing something like Macross is pretty easy though. Unlike some things - where it can be difficult to nail down what specifically doesn't look quite right, there are decades worth of design documents, schematics and other resources that you can go back to to get things just as they should be.
Luckily, with it being a 3D model - they should be able to widen the toros in short order with few if any problems. The knees need to have their pivot point adjusted. They are looking at that "rubber boot" like it were a hose that flexes and extends as opposed to being a shroud that covers a mechanical joint. If you look over on Youtube, you can find a few videos of people messing about with the Bandai models of this same figure - and their knees look the part much better.
I do not think Paulson's will be any type of knockoff, as he is making his own rules and the mecha appear to be quite large (easier for me to paint). Now they have similarities to Mechwarrior and Armored Core (I like this), but he is sticking with what appears to me to be mecha that are similar in the aspect that they have to be to be recognizable as mecha. Where as Robotech tends to follow anime lines I see Paulson's project as closer to the concepts that have always been in European and American fiction (Mechwarrior, BOLO). Personally I will likely support both by the time it is done because I like mecha. Hell I have 200+ Mechwarrior clickys still, so try to keep this on track about the kickstarter.
Regards,
Carl
I question where you get the idea that Paulson's are closer to the concepts in Mechwarrior since Mechwarrior is a derivative game of Battletech and Battletech started with Robotech Destroids for art. I hope to see more of his conecpts, and look forward even more to seeing miniatures. Right now they all look too similar, he needs some variety.
I still think I am more likely to support this KS if the miniatures look good, and if they look to be compatible with B-Tech in scale. I hate HG almost as much as I hate Fox exec's so it won't be a lot of support.
Battletech utilised some of the pre-existing destroid concepts but not alot of them, the creators of Battletech did infact create from scratch most of their mech designs and the newest iteration of mechwarrior has again modernised the design from the ground up, take a wander over to www.mwomercs.com and take a look at the artwork they have produced for the new game, it dosen't look anything like the original destroid/robotech/macross stuff....
I know I'm going to catch a lot of flak from die hard robotech fans but they should try to do what the guys at pgi have done with mechwarrior and update their design work as some of those designs are just silly looking....
I was the one involved with bringing the idea of a Robotech Tabletop game to Palladium, at the same time as I contacted Harmony Gold, John of Paulson Games did as well.. I had a rules set that I had pitched to HG and Palladium. John had some sculpts.. between the two of us we had convinced Kevin at Palladium to look into the prospect of a tabletop game and Miniatures.. John had then started in on another rules system for the game and was doing play testing. I was play testing my rules as well.. Palladium decided to not use John while continuing with the development of the minis and rules.. I contacted Soda Pop and introduced them to Palladium. never was there any negativity to John for his help in selling the idea.. No rules or miniatures were used from any parties involved and all research was performed by myself and Palladium. There was no ripping off or ill will directed at Paulson Games. I respect John and all that he does. I truly hope that his game and miniatures do well.
For more of the real story see the link: http://robotechbattles.blogspot.com/2012/10/clearing-air.html as for the kickstarter - YES there will be a monster.. I'm play testing it.. whether it makes it into the initial rules set remains to be seen..
Tom Roache
Red Duke Games
Robotech Battles
Battletech utilised some of the pre-existing destroid concepts but not alot of them, the creators of Battletech did infact create from scratch most of their mech designs and the newest iteration of mechwarrior has again modernised the design from the ground up, take a wander over to www.mwomercs.com and take a look at the artwork they have produced for the new game, it dosen't look anything like the original destroid/robotech/macross stuff....
I know I'm going to catch a lot of flak from die hard robotech fans but they should try to do what the guys at pgi have done with mechwarrior and update their design work as some of those designs are just silly looking....
Oh I really like the MWO mechs too. But I think their game sucks.
WilhelmRochRedDuke wrote: I was the one involved with bringing the idea of a Robotech Tabletop game to Palladium, at the same time as I contacted Harmony Gold, John of Paulson Games did as well.. I had a rules set that I had pitched to HG and Palladium. John had some sculpts.. between the two of us we had convinced Kevin at Palladium to look into the prospect of a tabletop game and Miniatures.. John had then started in on another rules system for the game and was doing play testing. I was play testing my rules as well.. Palladium decided to not use John while continuing with the development of the minis and rules.. I contacted Soda Pop and introduced them to Palladium. never was there any negativity to John for his help in selling the idea.. No rules or miniatures were used from any parties involved and all research was performed by myself and Palladium. There was no ripping off or ill will directed at Paulson Games. I respect John and all that he does. I truly hope that his game and miniatures do well.
For more of the real story see the link: http://robotechbattles.blogspot.com/2012/10/clearing-air.html as for the kickstarter - YES there will be a monster.. I'm play testing it.. whether it makes it into the initial rules set remains to be seen..
Tom Roache
Red Duke Games
Robotech Battles
Reading through the blogpost, it mentions that Palladium decided to cut out the miniatures side for the tabletop game. Any particular reason why they're suddenly adding it again then?
WilhelmRochRedDuke wrote: I was the one involved with bringing the idea of a Robotech Tabletop game to Palladium, at the same time as I contacted Harmony Gold, John of Paulson Games did as well.. I had a rules set that I had pitched to HG and Palladium. John had some sculpts.. between the two of us we had convinced Kevin at Palladium to look into the prospect of a tabletop game and Miniatures.. John had then started in on another rules system for the game and was doing play testing. I was play testing my rules as well.. Palladium decided to not use John while continuing with the development of the minis and rules.. I contacted Soda Pop and introduced them to Palladium. never was there any negativity to John for his help in selling the idea.. No rules or miniatures were used from any parties involved and all research was performed by myself and Palladium. There was no ripping off or ill will directed at Paulson Games. I respect John and all that he does. I truly hope that his game and miniatures do well.
For more of the real story see the link: http://robotechbattles.blogspot.com/2012/10/clearing-air.html as for the kickstarter - YES there will be a monster.. I'm play testing it.. whether it makes it into the initial rules set remains to be seen..
Tom Roache
Red Duke Games
Robotech Battles
That was your problem, though.
Palladium has a proven track record of gakking on writers and inflated ego.
In gaming, thier name is equated with the touch of death. You would have done much better to go in with Soda Pop, and CMON.
Hope it works out for you, but be prepared for disappointment in working with Palladium.
The problem is, if he wants to do Robotech he has no choice. HG (may they die in a fire) has a contract with Palladium and has decided that is how this will go forward.
judgedoug wrote: So quite literally Palladium has nothing to do with the game other than publishing it. So they could still screw that part up.
Absolutely wrong according to at least a half dozen blurbs by the owner of Palladium. Both printed and physical parts of the Robotech game go to them for approval and changes.
We’ve been buried in work. The Robotech® RPG Tactics™ game has been demanding a great deal of our time. But when I’m not involved with it, reviewing rules, submitting corrections to sculptures, etc., I’m busy taking care of other business or writing.
judgedoug wrote: So quite literally Palladium has nothing to do with the game other than publishing it. So they could still screw that part up.
Absolutely wrong according to at least a half dozen blurbs by the owner of Palladium. Both printed and physical parts of the Robotech game go to them for approval and changes.
We’ve been buried in work. The Robotech® RPG Tactics™ game has been demanding a great deal of our time. But when I’m not involved with it, reviewing rules, submitting corrections to sculptures, etc., I’m busy taking care of other business or writing.
judgedoug wrote: So reviewing rules (not designing them) and correcting sculptures (not sculpting them)
Palladium hasn't "designed" any original rules since the mid-1980's so it's highly unlikely that they'll start now. My original Robotech books are still compatible with Rifts and the current Robotech RPG. They appear to be in a purely supervisory and roadblock role in this process with unfortunately plenty of room for them to screw things up in their time honored fashion.
judgedoug wrote: So quite literally Palladium has nothing to do with the game other than publishing it. So they could still screw that part up.
Absolutely wrong according to at least a half dozen blurbs by the owner of Palladium. Both printed and physical parts of the Robotech game go to them for approval and changes.
We’ve been buried in work. The Robotech® RPG Tactics™ game has been demanding a great deal of our time. But when I’m not involved with it, reviewing rules, submitting corrections to sculptures, etc., I’m busy taking care of other business or writing.
So reviewing rules (not designing them) and correcting sculptures (not sculpting them)
So you don't know how Palladium works? The fact it is going to "work" with the Robotech RPG system (enhance play, as they called it), should be enough to stop anyone who want a good blanaced game, from laying down money.
IdentifyZero wrote: I am really looking forward to this kickstarter. It seems like it would do a heck of a lot better than the knockoff system.
How is my game a knock off system? Nothing I have on my drawingboard has anything to do with transforming planes let alone alien invasions.
Considering that I haven't released my system you're trolling a bit early don't you think?
Identity Zero's comment is particularly hilarious and ironic, seeing how Palladium's most famous property, Rifts, is completely centered around the idea of making knock-off, low rent versions of other companies' settings.
Did they officially say it'll be compatible with their RPG rules? If so, can you post a link? I try to keep up with the info surrounding the Robotech minis game but frankly wading through the past 3 months of "It'll be awesome!" empty posts is a bit of a pain.
IdentifyZero wrote: I am really looking forward to this kickstarter. It seems like it would do a heck of a lot better than the knockoff system.
How is my game a knock off system? Nothing I have on my drawingboard has anything to do with transforming planes let alone alien invasions.
Considering that I haven't released my system you're trolling a bit early don't you think?
Identity Zero's comment is particularly hilarious and ironic, seeing how Palladium's most famous property, Rifts, is completely centered around the idea of making knock-off, low rent versions of other companies' settings.
Which would be GW...wait...no...yes, I guess them too.
It was actually pretty common (and still is) for companies to do knock-offs, and everything including the kitchen sink settings. Rifts was one which did it early and in a spectacular way (in so much as they tossed in absolutely everything - which is to be honest part of its appeal in the same way that GW tossed in absolutely everything [from 2000AD] into 40K). TSR did comparable activities with a variety of their later settings, then you have GURPS - which by definition is a knock-off of everything. Shadowrun too...it pretty much is everything in the gaming spectrum.
I can think of only a very small handful of things which were not preceeded by popular books, movies or TV shows in the past 30 some odd years that have become games. Some of the more successful games were the most obvious in what they were knocking off.
There are a lot of things which Palladium can be faulted for - but I don't think recylcing common tropes can be one of them...especially not in terms of gaming.
So you don't know how Palladium works? The fact it is going to "work" with the Robotech RPG system (enhance play, as they called it), should be enough to stop anyone who want a good blanaced game, from laying down money.
More likely that you will have some form of a campaign tie-in rather than actually using anything from the RPG rules to run a wargame. That way, you can take your character from the RPG and have him be a captain or other elite unit in your wargame. More expieranced characters would have higher skills in game (and points values as well assuming the new rules use a points based scheme). To tie back into the RPG, XP awarded for kills and successful battles or some such.
Believe it or not, Palladium are not completely incompetant. You can't survive in the market for as long as they have if you are - and they have survived since 1981 or so in a matter of sorts (longer than that if you consider Kevin's time with Judge's Guild). I would be extremely surprised if they made any requirements beyond something along those lines to the rules developers.
JOHIRA wrote:When half of your core products are just photocopies of your other core products, when half your core rules are just rants by the rules writer about how he knows more about how these things work than other people, that should normally be a warning sign.
Besides, knowing Simbeida he's likely to grab a random concept sketch somewhere he doesn't understand and then make up an entirely new faction that in no way fits the story material at all based on what he thinks it is.
You can bitch about Palladium all you want to, it's combat system is clunky and tedious to set up a character. However it is literally the kitchen sink when it comes to RPG's if you want to lay a superpowered luchadore who kills demons with a guitar in a fantasy setting or a cyborg mutant weasel during a zombie apocalypse then their system can accommodate you. Add to the fact they rarely or never obsolete their books and you can count me as laughing at all the rage quitting ex-D&D/Pathfinder players.
I will support this, not because I enjoy Palladium products but because I want unseen Battletech miniatures.
Took the words right out of my mouth, for the most part.
I played a bunch of Rifts back in my high school days, but that came to an end over a decade ago. Eventually I sold off a large portion of my collection, but there's a small shelf with the remnants of those good old days, when men were men, dogs were boys, and sometimes white tigers were also boys and/or men. Where you might one day be fighting vampires in the morning, their 'leader' in the afternoon and a massive blob like alien intelligence that evening, all the same beings. Where technology, wizardry and technowizardry combine! Where the waitress might be a victim, a patsy, or a powerful psychic who just wants you to think she's a victim/patsy.
That isn't to say the system is flawless. By the end my group had pages of house rules to clarify, expand upon or outright fix game mechanics that should've been caught in the first draft, let alone allowed to go to print. KS has always held up too much of the work line up, and ye gods, I played their stuff for years over a decade ago and apparently their book lineup still sees massive delays. Hell, I'll bet if I looked closely I could find a book or three that just came out that were being promised back when I still playing. And their concept of balance was non-existent. You *could* have a cyber-knight, a dragon hatchling, a mind melter, and a rogue scholar in the group, but it'd involve some extra effort on the GM's part to run combat encounters that challenge them all without being trivialized by the big guns or completely splatting the support personnel. It wasn't impossible, but compared to systems like D&D 3E and 4E, there's almost no effort to provide a benchline for character power levels, challenges to those, and a sometimes annoyingly flat power curve (ie; aside from mages and some psychics, a level 1 character isn't that much less dangerous than a level 9 character, and the latter might take years to achieve with regular play).
And yet I'm still tempted to pick up a copy of Triax 2 for old times sake. Set it there with my old Robotech RPG books, the Rifts ones, Heroes Unlimited, System Shock, Nightbane, PFRPG, etc.
Anyway, there are enough hands and eyes involved that I'm not ignoring it outright. I'm excited for the models and the game (even if they just sit on a shelf most of the time, Robotech practically taught my 6 year old self the concept of death), and while I couldn't fault anyone for finding a dealbreaker or two, it's gonna take more than a little trepidation to keep me away from my own cyclone teams backing a Veritech squadron while hunting Zentraedi Officer's Pods / AKA : MAD-3R Marauders.
warboss wrote: Did they officially say it'll be compatible with their RPG rules? If so, can you post a link? I try to keep up with the info surrounding the Robotech minis game but frankly wading through the past 3 months of "It'll be awesome!" empty posts is a bit of a pain.
Perhaps this is a misunderstanding. There was a recent quote from KS about how the game might appeal to people who enjoy the Robotech RPG and want figures for their games. I don't recall anything about the two systems being compatible, simply that if you wanted to have a little mini of your mech, you'd be able to use one of these.
Noir wrote:
So you don't know how Palladium works? The fact it is going to "work" with the Robotech RPG system (enhance play, as they called it), should be enough to stop anyone who want a good blanaced game, from laying down money.
Yet people on this forum still primarily play GW..
Yet people on this forum still primarily play GW..
Is play synonymous with complain about? I guess it might be at that I know quite a few who play GW games and complain about them while doing so.
Anyway the possibility of this getting support from most of the people I know lies in the quality of the miniatures. Which I am sure we are all waiting to see.
massive leg improvement, but the body still looks too narrow to me
Hmmm, arms appear an obvious weak spot, hands appear non functional and rediculously blocky, knees appear to have been fixed now imobile...
please redesign and see me again in the morning.
All's fair if you don't like the design, but the blocky knees, hands and skinny arms are changes that make it more true to the original.
Huge improvement in my book
Is that an Archer? I haven't seen one of those Unseens in years, so its kinda hazy, but in a good way about them. I'd like one of those Warhammers, if they get around to some of those.
If these guys really want my money, they'd get ahold of some of those old school models and rerelease them. I know someone who would really like a few of those 1/ 48 scale guys.
Same company has the license, so it wouldn't be out of the question to get ahold of some of the models and repackage them with the robotech logo stuff for the game on them.
Is that an Archer? I haven't seen one of those Unseens in years, so its kinda hazy, but in a good way about them. I'd like one of those Warhammers, if they get around to some of those.
If these guys really want my money, they'd get ahold of some of those old school models and rerelease them. I know someone who would really like a few of those 1/ 48 scale guys.
Same company has the license, so it wouldn't be out of the question to get ahold of some of the models and repackage them with the robotech logo stuff for the game on them.
I rather suspect that quite a few people are wanting just that.
Been a follower of Palladium ever since they started. Regardless of what you think of the owner they have stayed in business (and I know recently it is barely) for over 20 years. Siembedia at his core is a control freak. If his name is not on it then it will not happen. That is just how he is. Anyone who has reads his blogs in Murmurs of the Megaverse will tell you that. Palladium biggest hurdle is Siembedia. Get past him and you can get product out.
Game wise this is a great idea. Creatively is where the issues are gonna be and that could very well tank this game.
Is that an Archer? I haven't seen one of those Unseens in years, so its kinda hazy, but in a good way about them. I'd like one of those Warhammers, if they get around to some of those.
If these guys really want my money, they'd get ahold of some of those old school models and rerelease them. I know someone who would really like a few of those 1/ 48 scale guys.
Same company has the license, so it wouldn't be out of the question to get ahold of some of the models and repackage them with the robotech logo stuff for the game on them.
I rather suspect that quite a few people are wanting just that.
That's definitely a perk. I got into Battletech through the Grey Death Legion series of novels, which means many of the mechs that 'are Battletech' to me are now long Unseen.
Had some of them in pewter decades ago, but they're long gone.
Be very happy to see a Marauder (the aforementioned Officer's Pod), a Phoenix Hawk (Veritech with booster packs), a Rifleman (Raidar-X), etc, etc, etc.
I wish HG would air the macross saga in its original form. No robotech masters or invid. Then we can have more minis from macross seven, plus, and frontier.
On a side note I hope they get to do the lightning. Also I wonder since PB has the license maybe do minis for macross II
Cypher-xv wrote: I wish HG would air the macross saga in its original form. No robotech masters or invid. Then we can have more minis from macross seven, plus, and frontier.
On a side note I hope they get to do the lightning. Also I wonder since PB has the license maybe do minis for macross II
SDF Macross has been available on DVD in R1 for a few years now, first from Animeigo and then from ADV.
I meant for those few who may not know robotech's tru origins. I prefer HG drop the current storyline and embrace the original storyline and just go with it.This whole SC storyline is just plain boring to me. Are we to wait years for HG to continue the SC story? Why when you can dub the various spin offs, get everyone caught up and end up with a better saga than the current one.
I just really want a minis game with all the Valkyries from the other macross shows.
Cypher-xv wrote: I meant for those few who may not know robotech's tru origins. I prefer HG drop the current storyline and embrace the original storyline and just go with it.This whole SC storyline is just plain boring to me. Are we to wait years for HG to continue the SC story? Why when you can dub the various spin offs, get everyone caught up and end up with a better saga than the current one.
I just really want a minis game with all the Valkyries from the other macross shows.
Maybe I'm crazy, but I like the Robotech storyline far, far more than the Macross storylines. And Macross 7 was total gak. Waste of my life watching 40-something episodes of that horrible nonsense.
Cyporiean wrote: Nah, its not just you. Most of the later Macross series are crap.
Original & Plus are the best.
Even then, I like Robotech's protoculture basically being a fuel source, and the expanded universe of Robotech. (I'm also a big fan of Southern Cross, shrug)
Macross Plus is pretty rad (I remember when it was being released in Japan, I had a friend send me illegal raw copies - no dubs or subs, but man was it still cool), and Macross Ai Oboete Imasu Ka is still just one of my favorite animated films of all time.
JOHIRA wrote: I'm not really too worked up over the Paulson issue, but I will never support a Palladium product because Palladium has never published a quality ruleset. They make GW look professional by comparison (and that's saying something!)
When half of your core products are just photocopies of your other core products, when half your core rules are just rants by the rules writer about how he knows more about how these things work than other people, that should normally be a warning sign.
Besides, knowing Simbeida he's likely to grab a random concept sketch somewhere he doesn't understand and then make up an entirely new faction that in no way fits the story material at all based on what he thinks it is.
That not actually fair, back in the days of arduin and Judges guild, when the palladium rules were first worked on they were fine. They had just been using them for 30+ years with little modification. I have developed something of a soft spot in my heart of palladium recently. They almost tanked completely a few years ago and have struggled back to life. I don't blame them protecting their assets they are few. Also they produce a ton of material, it may not be prize winning but they sure do work on their stuff. I wish other games were as well supported.
travelnjones wrote: That not actually fair, back in the days of arduin and Judges guild, when the palladium rules were first worked on they were fine. They had just been using them for 30+ years with little modification.
travelnjones wrote:Also they produce a ton of material, it may not be prize winning but they sure do work on their stuff. I wish other games were as well supported.
One of these 2 things does not make sense
So they keep the same ruleset for 3 decades, but get credit for producing a lot of lackluster material in the interim?
I have no desire to jump on something that struggled along with that old of a ruleset, ostensibly because they put out other things...
No news on the Kickstarter specifically but a friend messaged me that they posted pics of some of the minis on facebook. The bases are apparently 40mm (aka 40k terminator bases) and they'll be coming out in plastic.
warboss wrote: No news on the Kickstarter specifically but a friend messaged me that they posted pics of some of the minis on facebook. The bases are apparently 40mm (aka 40k terminator bases) and they'll be coming out in plastic.
Those look awesome, now as long as the game doesn't suck (palladium system), this might just be good. Wish the veritechs transformed though
Hard to tell, but they look to be bigger than Battletech, perhaps closer to the size of the 10mm Mechwarrior figs that I've rebased for use in several games.
When they seemed to be in BT scale I was considering a few just for nostalgia's sake. However if they compare well to Mechwarrior scale than I'm going to be buying more than I planned....
Wasp, Stinger, Warhammer, Rifleman in 10mm?
Yes Please!
Well, they said that the bases are 40mm so they're likely the size of the large mech clix figs. The big thing for me would be the amount of posablility of the veritechs.
The Battletech Marauder, for instance, is WAYYYY too small. Remember, a Zentraedi comfortabily pilots a Glaug... and Zentraedi are about the size of a Valkyrie in Battloid mode.
warboss wrote: Well, they said that the bases are 40mm so they're likely the size of the large mech clix figs. The big thing for me would be the amount of posablility of the veritechs.
You're might be right about the size. As an example, here's a few 10mm Mechwarrior mechs based on 45mm hexes
Though looking at these, it does seem now that maybe they'll be in between 10mm and 6mm?
Here's some regular 6mm battletech figures. Ttey tend to be mounted on 30mm bases, like so:
I'll wait until some comparison shots or pics with a ruler show up as I'm not totally sure I can trust my own eyes in this case.
The Battletech Marauder, for instance, is WAYYYY too small. Remember, a Zentraedi comfortabily pilots a Glaug... and Zentraedi are about the size of a Valkyrie in Battloid mode.
I think you're missing the point and refuting something no one is claiming. Unless I'm mistaken, Eilif was referring to the real life size of the figs not the mechs themselves in their respective universes and I was referencing commonly available and familiar minis that I suspect are the same size roughtly.
You're might be right about the size. As an example, here's a few mechs based on 45mm hexes
It's an educated guess on my part but a guess nonetheless. The bases are supposedly 40mm circular and the models look taller than modern 40k terminators but maybe slightly shorter than the metal battletech minis you posted. I doubt we'll see the comparison pics or figs next to rulers until the kickstarter comes out and only then if people specifically make a point of asking for it. If the glass cases at GAMA are anything like those at Gencon and Origins, attendees don't get to handle the minis themselves outside of the case. That may be different though with the more select clientele of that particular con (store owners).
warboss wrote: No news on the Kickstarter specifically but a friend messaged me that they posted pics of some of the minis on facebook. The bases are apparently 40mm (aka 40k terminator bases) and they'll be coming out in plastic.
Those look awesome, now as long as the game doesn't suck (palladium system), this might just be good. Wish the veritechs transformed though
I would buy it to use in a Robotech RPG, non Palladium. Hell, they would be fun just to paint!
The Battletech Marauder, for instance, is WAYYYY too small. Remember, a Zentraedi comfortabily pilots a Glaug... and Zentraedi are about the size of a Valkyrie in Battloid mode.
I think you're missing the point and refuting something no one is claiming. Unless I'm mistaken, Eilif was referring to the real life size of the figs not the mechs themselves in their respective universes and I was referencing commonly available and familiar minis that I suspect are the same size roughtly.
I was saying that, in 1/285 scale, while a Marauder in Battletech might be 50mm tall, a Glaug would be like 65mm tall. So I doubt the mecha will be that compatible with Battletech.
Who cares if the game is good or not?!?! To have good Macross miniatures is worth it, there's plenty of games to use them in. As to the Battletech scale or not, just use the hexless scale and play 1st edition match-ups. We've always just played 3025 anyways.
warboss wrote: No news on the Kickstarter specifically but a friend messaged me that they posted pics of some of the minis on facebook. The bases are apparently 40mm (aka 40k terminator bases) and they'll be coming out in plastic.
Those look awesome, now as long as the game doesn't suck (palladium system), this might just be good. Wish the veritechs transformed though
Hopefully they'll have pics for the MAC III and the Regault TBP pretty soon.
I think the smallest transforming Veritech I've found was 3" tall, and it was very, very flimsy. There's generally sacrifices that have to be made between transformation and sculpt accuracy.
The Destroids look about perfect size for regular battletech. If those are 40mm bases then they stand approx 50mm tall. Hard to judge given the angle but it looks very close. The Original Battletech Warhammer (Tomahawk) stands about 50mm tall. If they are 60 it would be even better given the scale creep over the last 20 years. Either way they are going to be close enough to use. The Valkyries and Glaug will be too large. Which is ok by me. Awesome looking Warhammers are all I wanted out of this. Bonus given for the rest of the Destroids.
Yeah, they've been doing that for a while. I picked up the RPG macross book when it came out and they use them there if I recall as well. That was actually one of the few notable changes they made as the rules were still pretty much the stale palladium ones from the 80's.
The Japanese names were used in Robotech, too. They're the official Robotech names. They're even used in the Robotech cartoon. http://www.robotech.com/infopedia/mecha/
For some reason Matchbox invented names for the toys, and then Palladium used the Matchbox invented names for the RPG. They've always been wrong and only used in those two instances.
warboss wrote: No news on the Kickstarter specifically but a friend messaged me that they posted pics of some of the minis on facebook. The bases are apparently 40mm (aka 40k terminator bases) and they'll be coming out in plastic.
Those are cool looking minis. I would definately try to get some and proxy them into other games.
At that size my guess is $10 to $12 each for grunts, a bit more for named guys I'm sure. Any more than that and I'll put them in the 'as or more expensive than GW' category.
Justyn wrote:At that size my guess is $10 to $12 each for grunts, a bit more for named guys I'm sure. Any more than that and I'll put them in the 'as or more expensive than GW' category.
I highly doubt it. I'd expect it to be closer to the Relic Knight line in price as they're roughly similar in size. The Robotech stuff is smaller on average it seems (can't say for certain) but they also have to pay a licensing fee to Harmony Gold and a cut of the profits to Palladium that will likely drive up the price. While I hope they don't pull the GWbs of charging more for a character than a standard model, I'd expect the minis shown so far to go for around $18-20 each depending on size with some of the larger not-yet displayed Zentraedi ones going for up to $25 each.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Like Tau Crisis suits? If they retail for less than 25$ a piece, we might have a winner.
Too small for suits. :( At 1/285th they are close to 50mm which puts them at shoulder height with a crisis suit but the main thing is that the body proportion are much smaller than a suit. Even if it were driven by Tau midgets it'd probably be a stretch to visualize anybody fitting in one.
However the old Macross - Nichimo 1/200 scale kits would fit well. Most of the veritechs can be found for under $10 in ebay and you get two kits per box, meaning you can have $5 models to mess around with. (instead of GW's $25)
Differance between 1/285th and 1/200 The Battletech mini on the far left is roughly the scale that the new robotech minis will be, the crusader is 50mm to top of the head. The Nichimo kits are larger than the Tau suits but they are dirt cheap and can be modified very easily.
I highly doubt it. I'd expect it to be closer to the Relic Knight line in price as they're roughly similar in size. The Robotech stuff is smaller on average it seems (can't say for certain) but they also have to pay a licensing fee to Harmony Gold and a cut of the profits to Palladium that will likely drive up the price. While I hope they don't pull the GWbs of charging more for a character than a standard model, I'd expect the minis shown so far to go for around $18-20 each depending on size with some of the larger not-yet displayed Zentraedi ones going for up to $25 each.
For models slightly larger than Terminators in plastic, this seems pricey. Their Relic Knights are $12ish metal model or $20 for some of their larger models, pricey but not unreasonable for a well sculpted metal model. These, while larger, are also going to be plastic which is significantly cheaper.
For models slightly larger than Terminators in plastic, this seems pricey. Their Relic Knights are $12ish metal model or $20 for some of their larger models, pricey but not unreasonable for a well sculpted metal model. These, while larger, are also going to be plastic which is significantly cheaper.
Don't get me wrong.. I do hope you're right... I just don't think it's likely unfortunately. They're not billing this as a value brand of minis and previously (albeit months back) said they'll be charging prices comparable to other premium lines or some such so I don't think they're in a race for the bottom dollar cost.
The Japanese names were used in Robotech, too. They're the official Robotech names. They're even used in the Robotech cartoon. http://www.robotech.com/infopedia/mecha/
For some reason Matchbox invented names for the toys, and then Palladium used the Matchbox invented names for the RPG. They've always been wrong and only used in those two instances.
Looking at my tattered 23year old rpg book...
To be fair, Palladium always acknowledged the dual names, both in the mech entries within the rule book and the "Japanimation sidenotes" at the end. Since I don't think anyone in the entire series refers to the destriods by name at any time it's fairly easy to see why they would have chosen the "common" names within the North American market for identifying the destroids.
The Japanese names were used in Robotech, too. They're the official Robotech names. They're even used in the Robotech cartoon. http://www.robotech.com/infopedia/mecha/
For some reason Matchbox invented names for the toys, and then Palladium used the Matchbox invented names for the RPG. They've always been wrong and only used in those two instances.
On the TMP forum one of the palladium followers mentioned that the game would be priced comperable to "other big box games". I'm not sure what games thats in reference to. If it's GW games then it'll probably be pretty costly. The same post suggested that it'll be around $120 for the box. No idea what the total model count will be, although it seems like it's patterned a bit after GW's battlebox set up. I'm not certain on that as its all second hand info without much solid detail.
More vagueness to go along with your vagueness...from Palladium:
The final details of the Robotech® RPG Tactics™ box set and expansion kits are still being hammered out at this time. They will conform to industry standards for pricing and packaging. A 2013 release.
I would guess that they are looking at the boutique tabletop/board game price points. Something along the lines of FFG's Dust Tactics - so $100 or so for the core game and "Boosters" in the $15-25 range.
Ledabot wrote: I don't see the appeal in robotech. Macross is way better.
Then get the macross only minis. I'm not seeing how the above can be read as much more than trolling frankly.
You got me, but I actually am a little interested. I just don't really like the law since robotech was a little bit of a sad chimera of 80s robot anime. Ironically, I do like battletech quite a bit and that's probably even more of a mix up than robotech. But I'm sure that you didn't come to read my life story. I'll find a point somewhere in the discussion where i can comment and feel useful and fulfilling. I do like the pictures so far though.
For some reason Matchbox invented names for the toys, and then Palladium used the Matchbox invented names for the RPG. They've always been wrong and only used in those two instances.
Looking at my tattered 23year old rpg book...
To be fair, Palladium always acknowledged the dual names, both in the mech entries within the rule book and the "Japanimation sidenotes" at the end. Since I don't think anyone in the entire series refers to the destriods by name at any time it's fairly easy to see why they would have chosen the "common" names within the North American market for identifying the destroids.
I'd have to do a bunch of research (as in rewatch the whole series for like the 14th time) but I know VF-1 are definitely called Valkyries at several points, a squadron of Defenders are called Defenders at another point, I believe a Spartan is referenced as a Spartan correctly (and not using Spartan to reference a Phalanx for instance) and others I can't remember off the top of my head. I distinctly also remember a Zentraedi commander using the term "Regult" as well.
Ledabot wrote: I don't see the appeal in robotech. Macross is way better.
Then get the macross only minis. I'm not seeing how the above can be read as much more than trolling frankly.
You got me, but I actually am a little interested. I just don't really like the law since robotech was a little bit of a sad chimera of 80s robot anime. Ironically, I do like battletech quite a bit and that's probably even more of a mix up than robotech. But I'm sure that you didn't come to read my life story. I'll find a point somewhere in the discussion where i can comment and feel useful and fulfilling. I do like the pictures so far though.
It's all just a matter of opinion. I like the Robotech story as a whole better than the Macross story (especially 7 and Frontier which I believe are terrible). Robotech is more space opera, more grand, due to the (imho successful) combining of the different stories. Plus I really really want Masters Bioroids fighting Invid. The first time I saw the Sentinels I was like "holy gak that's awesome!" I hope they make Inorganics!
But the great thing is that with good high quality minis, they can be used for _everything_ from purist Macross or Mospeada or Southern Cross games to Robotech games to Battletech to any 6mm and I'm sure even some 15mm or 25mm gaming. The designs from all the original series are all great and I'm very excited about them finally being represented in good quality miniatures.
We now have a tentative date for the KS (April), from Ninja Division on facebook
Ninja Division
We had a great time at GAMA - more previews of some of our amazing miniatures to be included in the upcoming Robotech®: RPG Tactics™. Watch for news about how to support this amazing project with Kickstarter, coming April, 2013!
For some reason Matchbox invented names for the toys, and then Palladium used the Matchbox invented names for the RPG. They've always been wrong and only used in those two instances.
Looking at my tattered 23year old rpg book...
To be fair, Palladium always acknowledged the dual names, both in the mech entries within the rule book and the "Japanimation sidenotes" at the end. Since I don't think anyone in the entire series refers to the destriods by name at any time it's fairly easy to see why they would have chosen the "common" names within the North American market for identifying the destroids.
I'd have to do a bunch of research (as in rewatch the whole series for like the 14th time) but I know VF-1 are definitely called Valkyries at several points, a squadron of Defenders are called Defenders at another point, I believe a Spartan is referenced as a Spartan correctly (and not using Spartan to reference a Phalanx for instance) and others I can't remember off the top of my head. I distinctly also remember a Zentraedi commander using the term "Regult" as well.
Ledabot wrote: I don't see the appeal in robotech. Macross is way better.
Then get the macross only minis. I'm not seeing how the above can be read as much more than trolling frankly.
You got me, but I actually am a little interested. I just don't really like the law since robotech was a little bit of a sad chimera of 80s robot anime. Ironically, I do like battletech quite a bit and that's probably even more of a mix up than robotech. But I'm sure that you didn't come to read my life story. I'll find a point somewhere in the discussion where i can comment and feel useful and fulfilling. I do like the pictures so far though.
It's all just a matter of opinion. I like the Robotech story as a whole better than the Macross story (especially 7 and Frontier which I believe are terrible). Robotech is more space opera, more grand, due to the (imho successful) combining of the different stories. Plus I really really want Masters Bioroids fighting Invid. The first time I saw the Sentinels I was like "holy gak that's awesome!" I hope they make Inorganics!
But the great thing is that with good high quality minis, they can be used for _everything_ from purist Macross or Mospeada or Southern Cross games to Robotech games to Battletech to any 6mm and I'm sure even some 15mm or 25mm gaming. The designs from all the original series are all great and I'm very excited about them finally being represented in good quality miniatures.
Personally, I consider 7 and Frontier more grand because humanity went out to the stars rather than battening down on earth.
Frontier is space opera, MOSPAEDA is post-apocalyptic freedom fighters.
Although I do heavily dislike 7 for what it did to Max and Myria.
paulson games wrote: On the TMP forum one of the palladium followers mentioned that the game would be priced comperable to "other big box games". I'm not sure what games thats in reference to. If it's GW games then it'll probably be pretty costly. The same post suggested that it'll be around $120 for the box. No idea what the total model count will be, although it seems like it's patterned a bit after GW's battlebox set up. I'm not certain on that as its all second hand info without much solid detail.
Thats pretty pricey. While the nostaglic part of me (Battletech was my first mini game, played the Robotech RPG too) loves the minis, Im not too happy with the raw deal they pulled on you, and a high price doesnt help. Id rather focus my funds on some 15mm large scale Battletech mechs, and a Paulson Games kickstarter should it pop up.
Saying its pricey without knowing what is included is a bit premature at best. If you are set on disliking it for the Paulson/Harmony Gold thing thats fine. However there is no call to make up other reasons and post about them in this thread. Btw I'm all good on hating on HG and will jump on that bandwagon as fast as the next guy.
mullet_steve wrote: I know I'm going to catch a lot of flak from die hard robotech fans but they should try to do what the guys at pgi have done with mechwarrior and update their design work as some of those designs are just silly looking....
I think it's just die-hard fans at this point, I think they like the retro-charm.
warboss wrote: No news on the Kickstarter specifically but a friend messaged me that they posted pics of some of the minis on facebook. The bases are apparently 40mm (aka 40k terminator bases) and they'll be coming out in plastic.
These look better. What scale are they?
paulson games wrote: On the TMP forum one of the palladium followers mentioned that the game would be priced comperable to "other big box games". I'm not sure what games thats in reference to. If it's GW games then it'll probably be pretty costly. The same post suggested that it'll be around $120 for the box. No idea what the total model count will be, although it seems like it's patterned a bit after GW's battlebox set up. I'm not certain on that as its all second hand info without much solid detail.
$120 is quite pricey, though of course we don't know what will be in the box. You may get a ton of stuff, though I'm wondering of it would have been better to go with an $80-100 price point, and sell-add-on sets. The Voltron game was $50, and Heroscape was about $80, but those were prepainted games.
Are we sure the figures are going to be plastoc, or restic?
Those are the early samples which Ninja Division had with them at GAMA. They should be 1/285 just like the planned figures will be.
So far there hasn't been any official word on the price other than following industry standards - so I really doubt $120 will be the price point (as I can't think of anything at that price point that would be considered industry standard). Most games are either in the $99 price range or somewhere down hill from there.
Given the size and nature of the game - I wouldn't be surprised at all to see around 10 figures in the starter set
I forget if this has been posted here aleady...but several pictures over here:
The figures which they had at GAMA were metal as I understand it - though I don't know if the plans for the production figures will be in plastic or metal. If they are plastic - I would guess hard plastic of PVC will be the choice.
Here is Soda Pop's release on it
Prepare for invasion! Robotech® RPG Tactics™ is a fast paced strategy battle game that brings the epic combat of Robotech to your tabletop. Take command of the fighting forces of the United Earth Defence Force valiantly defending Earth from alien annihilation, or lead the massive clone armies of the Zentradi Empire to recover an alien artifact of immense power and enslave mankind.
Robotech®RPG Tactics™ is designed in partnership with the makers of the popular Robotech®RPG, Palladium Games, and Ninja Division. Ninja Division brings together the design talents of Soda Pop Miniatures and Cipher Studios, makers of Super Dungeon™ Explore, Relic Knights™, Helldorado™, and Anima Tactics™.
Ninja Division is developing an all new, streamlined rules system that allows you to relive the massive battles on your tabletop at home as a stand-alone game or to enhance your Robotech®RPG adventures. This fast-paced, action oriented system is being developed by lead designers: David Freeman designer of the popular Ultimate Fighting System CCG™ and developer on the Lord of the Rings TMG™; and renowned game designer Alessio Cavatore former designer of the Warhammer™ and Warhammer 40k™ systems by Games Workshop, designer of Kings of War™ by Mantic Games, and owner of River Horse Game Studio.
In addition, Ninja Division is bringing their years of miniature design and manufacturing experience to produce an expansive and dynamic range ofplastic game pieces, sure to please fans of Robotech and serious collectors alike.
Make sure to keep up on all our latest announcements for this exciting new project by following Ninja Division's facebook page.
Regards,
Carl
From earlier in the thread. Emphasis mine.
So the plan is plastic as far as anyone knows at this point. I expect a $80 to $100 starter set with $15 to $25 expansions.
Heh my only exposure to macross is SRW, so I barely know anything about the series besides robots and aliens. Got to love that Macross Cannon, even if it doesnt hit anything...
warboss wrote: No news on the Kickstarter specifically but a friend messaged me that they posted pics of some of the minis on facebook. The bases are apparently 40mm (aka 40k terminator bases) and they'll be coming out in plastic.
And boom goes the dynamite!!!!! Ah hell I hope they go into the stuff that was allowed like macross II and plus. Towards the end of the series I remember Rick playing with a lightning fighter. Please please dear lord include one in at some point. Will the models be posable or will they be one piece or will they be like DW figs were your stuck building them with the same pose? That could get boring. All in all I'm still excited about this. I've been waiting for this game since robotech first came out when I was 6 or 8 years old.
I hope I don't get any strange look when I start singing "we will win" while heroically piloting my valkyrie.lol
I believe I read multi-part multi-pose somewhere. However I cannot find that blurb. It does look from the picture like the prototypes are at least somewhat pose-able.
kenshin620 wrote: Got to love that Macross Cannon, even if it doesnt hit anything...
What's the Macross Cannon?
The SDF-1 Macross' main gun reflex cannon hit lots and lots of things, destroyed piles of capital ships and wiped out squadrons and squadrons of enemy mecha. Hell the very first episode of the series, it fires and cores a Zentraedi ship and the bleed energy from the near-miss of the beam tore the second one apart.
Even the Grand Cannon on Earth destroyed huge portions of Dolza's Fleet - thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of capital ships, equating to losses of millions of soldiers and mecha.
kenshin620 wrote: Got to love that Macross Cannon, even if it doesnt hit anything...
What's the Macross Cannon?
The SDF-1 Macross' main gun reflex cannon hit lots and lots of things, destroyed piles of capital ships and wiped out squadrons and squadrons of enemy mecha. Hell the very first episode of the series, it fires and cores a Zentraedi ship and the bleed energy from the near-miss of the beam tore the second one apart.
Even the Grand Cannon on Earth destroyed huge portions of Dolza's Fleet - thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of capital ships, equating to losses of millions of soldiers and mecha.
Its game mechanics, not show mechanics, on accuracy I was referring to!
Spoiler:
In SRW, capital ships often have a hard time hitting small/agile things if they dont got aim/strike. Especially scopedogs, those guys sure do know how to dodge giant laser beams of death. Sorry for off topicness
I got burnt by Kevin and his company on Rifts miniatures. Several Glitterboys and some Coalition troops. Never got them never got the money back. I don't trust them and will not support anything from them ever. Too bad - I used to love Macross/Robotech stuff.
HLJ has a set of 1/200 Macross trade figures from across the franchise (YF-19, VF-X2 VA-3M Invader, and VF-1J in all three modes), These should be pretty close in size to the Robotech releases.
Dam you HG for holding back all the sweet looking mechs from the other spin off shows. I love the designs from zero and frontier. I can only hope they someday realize the potential of those models. I mean aren't they fans too? Come HG get together. At the very least when are they going to finish shadow chronicles? Or do we have to wait another ten or twenty years?
Finally, in conclusion, I have a Destroid Monster that turns into a space bomber and a robot, which I got at a market in China so really all is well in the world.
Amazing........More pics please?
Bit late in posting but it looks like it's the Konig Monster from Macross Frontier.
If you can find them, there are some amazing models from Macross Frontier and they're a bit easier to find since the series is more recent. Can still be difficult though but there are actually a few on Amazon.
It's the Macross Quarter from Macross Frontier. It's a carrier 1/4th the size of the original Macross. (400 meters long)
Ah yes, my brain had successfully wiped away most of the turd that is that show. Why is Macross held in such low esteem in Japan that after Macross Plus they insist on grinding the license into the ground?
Justyn wrote: I believe I read multi-part multi-pose somewhere. However I cannot find that blurb. It does look from the picture like the prototypes are at least somewhat pose-able.
I believe that was mentioned on the Facebook page. Definitely saw them say something along those lines.
I grew up with Robotech on TV and then later the book series (all of which are sitting on a shelf to this day), so I don't mind the english names.
Hell, if I'm honest, I'll probably continue to call 'em Veritechs forever.
I know the focus is on the original series, but if I get that much plus some Cyclone squads, I'll be a happy, happy man.
Also, there was a comment from a Ninja Division guy on the Facebook page that said the KS would begin in the first week of April.
Ok in the video he clearly states multipart plastic. Also he definitely alludes to them being useable in Battletech, They certainly look right in the video.
While there still isn't a hard date on the kickstarter, the following was posted on their latest press release. I suspect we won't be seeing the starter for much less than $100 judging from that second part (my emphasis).
The Robotech® RPG Tactics™ Kickstarter has been rescheduled to start mid-April. Oh, and save up your money. I was talking to an old pal who is a Robotech® fan and RPGer. Though he hasn’t gamed much in a number of years, he’s very interested in Robotech® RPG Tactics™ and the game pieces. He had put aside $200 for the Kickstarter, but after hearing what all was going to be offered, he said he would be spending double or triple that amount.
It's the Macross Quarter from Macross Frontier. It's a carrier 1/4th the size of the original Macross. (400 meters long)
Ah yes, my brain had successfully wiped away most of the turd that is that show. Why is Macross held in such low esteem in Japan that after Macross Plus they insist on grinding the license into the ground?
You know not everyone has your same tastes? Macross 7, Macross Zero, and Macross Frontier were all quite popular in Japan.
The only part of the series that's been disavowed is Macross II, mostly because Studio Nue wasn't involved in its production.
You know not everyone has your same tastes? Macross 7, Macross Zero, and Macross Frontier were all quite popular in Japan.
The only part of the series that's been disavowed is Macross II, mostly because Studio Nue wasn't involved in its production.
Of course. When you pander to children, then giant robots in space with guitars is REALLY COOL to your target audience.
Interestingly, I enjoyed Macross II slightly more than Macross 7. I remember when 7 was airing and being slowly more dumbfounded with each passing episode (well, I was getting them on vhs in 4 episode chunks copies from japanese tv and mailed to me). I was also confused at first because while Macross II was an obvious sequel to DYRL, 7 used the designs from DYRL (such as Exsedol) but was supposed to be a direct sequel to Macross. But whatevs. 7 was terrible (and man oh man, stupidest ending for a show of all time) I found that with the increasingly poor treatment of the Macross property by it's own creators that the original Macross must have been a fluke, and it's precisely because of the poor sequels that I came to like Robotech's storyline more and more. I believe it's a superior story.
My silver lining for Macross 7 is that it gives me such a major counter-point to every "macross was SO much better than Robotrash" idiot. Robotech never had singing rock-band pilots literally controlling their valkyries with a guitar (unless you count Palladium's Lancers Rockers RPG book. I do not.) and singing at the aliens to stop them from stealing your mojo. Nor did Robotech have a Zentraedi Captain Ahab hunting the great white space-whale, or a Battle of the Bands competition between 2 pilots INSIDE THEIR MECHA! All of those things are exist in the official canon of a series that is supposedly "so much better" than Robotech, it makes me insane. I've given 7 a few tries over the years, never made it more than halfway through the series proper.
Macross Plus is absolutely fantastic from animation to mecha desing to story, but even then it had a computer AI pop singer who hypnotizes an entire city so she can kill the main pilot to show him she loves him. So, yeah, that happened. Macross Zero had some good art, great battle scenes, but in the end a terrible story. I really liked Frontier, but it suffers from the same tired old anime tropes of "we're in a military-like organization but not THE military because the actual military guys are bad and dumb and stupid and possibly evil because reasons" as well as "mecha pilots still in high school dealing with high school drama in-between alien attacks".
Macross II is great for what it was (a direct sequel to DYRL) and had some of my absolute favorite mecha designs of all time. The VF-2SS is hands down THE best looking valkyrie of any series before or since, bar NONE! The Destroid designs are all awesome, the Marduk and Zentraedi power armor is freaking sweet and the starships are some of the coolest from any of the diferent series. But the story is rightfully maligned and should have followed the fighter pilots and not some punk reporter nobody cares about. Marduk kick ass though, I've always secretly hoped for a Robotech Master's revamp to be more Marduk and less greco-roman.
So yeah, TLR Robotech is great even though it has some major issues and Macross is great but it has some major issues, but they tell very different stories and build into very different worlds so stop telling me how one is so much "better" than the other just because it's the original japanese and that somehow makes a pile of poop smell like roses.
PS - As much as I have always desired to own a VF-2SS in 1/285th I would be incredibly surprised to ever see a Macross II expansion to this Robotech game. Palladium willingly gave up the rights to those books long ago and even when they made them they had Dream Pod 9 write 3 of the 5 books. Palladium has never bothered with any of the other Macross sequels (probably too much licensing issues).
I wouldn't expect too many Macross shows that didn't get made into Robotech shows. This is being made with License from Harmony Gold. Only shows they have licenses for will be made into expansions for this game.
Macross II is great for what it was (a direct sequel to DYRL) and had some of my absolute favorite mecha designs of all time. The VF-2SS is hands down THE best looking valkyrie of any series before or since, bar NONE! The Destroid designs are all awesome, the Marduk and Zentraedi power armor is freaking sweet and the starships are some of the coolest from any of the diferent series. But the story is rightfully maligned and should have followed the fighter pilots and not some punk reporter nobody cares about. Marduk kick ass though, I've always secretly hoped for a Robotech Master's revamp to be more Marduk and less greco-roman.
I agree with you 100%. The VF-2SS is an amazing mecha. I have a 1/100 transformable model kit of it, but it would be awesome to have one in a size that easier supports gaming.
I will have to get one of those, for obvious reasons.
This is looking very nice. Considering Palladium only has token approval over the artwork and figures and the main game seems to be done by Soda Pop, I'm looking interested.
My only concern is that I tried watching Robotech recently and holy crow, it did not age well.
That's what the customers of the last two Palladium crowdfunding ventures have been saying since last GenCon due date... I hope the involvement of other companies (Soda Pop and Harmony Gold) will prevent a repeat of history.
CaptKaruthors wrote: I'm totally getting this game when it comes out. I can't wait to blast my opponent away with the officer pod's particle beam cannon.
Something that possibly should only be said online, on a miniature wargaming site...
Alpharius wrote: Counting on Soda Pop to help speed things up might not be the best thing!
Are they generally not known for keeping to release dates? I've followed their stuff on threads here on dakka but haven't bought anything or paid close enough attention to notice any dates/releases slipping. Their stuff (much like Infinity for me) has great detail and looks good but the aesthetic is a bit too sailor moon and catgirl for me whereas my interests lie more in anime robots/cyborgs mostly (robotech, votoms, appleseed, Ghost in the shell).
Also, there's a little bit of silly and cheesecake in INFINITY, but it is WAY more Robotech/Votoms/Appleseed/Ghost in the Shell than not!
Agreed. While I don't need nor want the gothic grimdark seriousness of 40k, catgirl/pokemon flair in a robot minis game tends to turn me off which counts out the previous Soda Pop releases and to a lesser extent Infinity. Some of the TAGs (I think that's the name) that resemble appleseed cyborgs and robots interest me alot but I made a vow a few years back that I wouldn't just buy minis that I like for the hell of it but rather only towards complete games/armies that I intend to play... otherwise I would have bought my first infinity mini a few months back (scarface). I just haven't had recent luck in finding a new minis game that I want to get into whose figs appeal to me aesthetically. Thon would have fit the bill but that fizzled for reasons we both know from posting in that thread... Warzone has taken a turn for the retro with their Capitol figs resembling the older, goofy ones rather than the almost complete modernizing reboot Bauhaus got. So far, I'm only left with Robotech (whose designs are about the opposite of "new" you can get but are a classic I grew up with) and that's dependent on how much involvement Palladium has with the running of the kickstarter as well as making up the rules. Anything compatible with or resembling the Palladium RPG system that I played for almost a decade would likely stop me from purchasing any minis. I've already got a bunch of unbuilt 1/200 nice plastic kits so my reason for buying the minis (or supporting a kickstarter) would be to actually play the game.
I will have to get one of those, for obvious reasons.
This is looking very nice. Considering Palladium only has token approval over the artwork and figures and the main game seems to be done by Soda Pop, I'm looking interested.
My only concern is that I tried watching Robotech recently and holy crow, it did not age well.
Compared to the Japanese anime of starship troopers (Uchuu no Senshi) 1988 macross has aged very well. Even more than live action movies anime can age very badly
I've been watching for this like a hawk, and basically there were murmurs last year (nothing official) that a KS might fire up in January.
Obviously that came and went.
The first official word was March.
Also long gone.
Then early April, then on April 4th we were told "within 10 days", and now just recently the most recent word has been updated to "around the 20th, maybe a little before or after".
So given Palladium's track record, and the involvement of Ninja Division and Harmony Gold, the KS campaign should begin sometime between now and when the sun finally expands into a Red Giant, roughly 7.5 Billion years from now.
But at least it's a starting point.
Personally I'm liking what I see of the models, but I'll admit that as someone who is very new to both building and painting models (only been doing so for the past year), I'm kind of dreading the results of trying to do Max Sterling's Veritech justice. Blue trim on something the size of a fingernail... *shudder*
I will have to get one of those, for obvious reasons.
This is looking very nice. Considering Palladium only has token approval over the artwork and figures and the main game seems to be done by Soda Pop, I'm looking interested.
My only concern is that I tried watching Robotech recently and holy crow, it did not age well.
Compared to the Japanese anime of starship troopers (Uchuu no Senshi) 1988 macross has aged very well. Even more than live action movies anime can age very badly
He's probably talking about things like "old sourpuss!?" and going out into space to catch a tuna. Which is why the people complaining about 7 and Frontier remind me of those Transformers fans who gripe about kid sidekicks in the more recent shows.
It is interesting to watch old animes sometimes and compare production values. There's things that can be done really easily nowadays that old shows didn't have (color consistency) but at the same time there's artistry that you never see in modern animes (There's a rotating spotlight in a throwaway shot in Xabungle's first episode that blows away any lighting effects done in modern shows.)
RogueRegault wrote: He's probably talking about things like "old sourpuss!?" and going out into space to catch a tuna. Which is why the people complaining about 7 and Frontier remind me of those Transformers fans who gripe about kid sidekicks in the more recent shows.
That's why the best episodes of Macross are post Rick/Hikaru joining up; and especially after Gloval/Grobal's Report. I remember reading something about how Macross was in danger of being canceled so they had to start speeding the story along. (Perhaps if 7's meandering plot had been compressed into 20-something episodes it might have been more watchable, Giant Robots With Guitars And Spear Pods notwithstanding)
It's officially now Schrodinger's KS Campaign; neither alive nor dead, merely in a quantum state of both until someone at KS opens the box and decides whether or not we can start throwing handfuls of money at them.
I'm hoping for sooner too, but if it's out by this weekend at some point I wouldn't complain much.
...hell, with Palladium's involvement (even if it's just giving things thumbs up/down and counting money piles) I'll be happy if it launches in 2013.
... wow, over a decade since my last Rifts campaign and I still can't let that go.
A surprising number of minis in the starter set... 18 independent miniatures for $80 ($70 early bird). There are more minis total in there but each veritech requires 3 separate sculpts for one playable piece. Frankly, Palladium's utter disregard for fans in the past made me think they'd have only around a half dozen to ten max in a starter. I'm glad I was wrong.
Kind of wish they'd post more details about the rules. I don't want anything to do with the completely outdated megaversal system. The stat cards looks relatively lean so I'm hoping it's not the d20 attack/percentile skill system that palladium has been limping along like a zombie with for decades.
This game comes out too late for me. Yes, it is interesting but not good enough to me to purchase and to paint up all these minis. Besides, there are only two sides for you to choose with the aliens utterly non-interesting.
wildger wrote: This game comes out too late for me. Yes, it is interesting but not good enough to me to purchase and to paint up all these minis. Besides, there are only two sides for you to choose with the aliens utterly non-interesting.
Eventually there will be 4(6) factions to choose from: Zentraedi, Masters, Invid, UEDF/RDF (plus Army of the Southern Cross and the Expeditionary Force)
But understandable if you don't like Zentraedi.
No doubt in my mind it'll be funded and maybe later on you'll like the other aliens.
Personally, I'm such a huge Robotech fan that I don't care if the rules blow goats. And apparently Alessio Cavatore was involved in their design, so they might actually be good.
wildger wrote: This game comes out too late for me. Yes, it is interesting but not good enough to me to purchase and to paint up all these minis. Besides, there are only two sides for you to choose with the aliens utterly non-interesting.
They did announce that they're planning on doing all the eras so there should be six "sides" eventually. They're just starting with the first and incidentally most popular era.
The VF-1A's a more than a little stiff posed and I'm frankly worried about the survivability of the Glaug's arms with those tiny elbow joints. I think I would have preferred a bit more stylized sculpting that made it a sturdier mini (as well as more dynamic poses) at the cost of being 100% accurate to the original designs. 90% is enough for me if it means that I don't have to reglue/touch up the mini every game due to breaks.
hey MODs should there be a new thread for the actual KS? this one has 9 pages of random discussion so will be difficult for newbies to figure out where it starts to see relevant news...
The likely success of this KS will fund the continued use of the current Rifts rules for another two decades to come... unfortunately. The success of this is a tribute to the 80's phenomenon that Robotech was and not because of the contributions of Palladium. It looks like the $130 early birds are all gone but they weren't much of a savings anyways (just $10). I would have preferred a $70 early bird with Rick Hunter add on but he's not currently listed as one of the available add ons.
So for those heretics who are totally going to be stealing these guys for their use as Unseen Battlemechs...
Would it be safe to summarize the starter set as 80 dollars for
5 Stingers, 5 Stinger LAMS, 5 Stinger Aerofighters, 2 Warhammer/Rifleman kits, a Marauder and 12 Ostrocs?
That's two companies (25 Mechs, + the 5 Aerofighters) of unseen for under 100 bucks... plus the 10 dollar Warhammer/Rifleman kits are an awesome deal.
IF someone wants to commit to keeping a Robotech Kickstarter thread updated, yes, by all means - go ahead and start a new one, and we'll close this one up!
Alpharius wrote: IF someone wants to commit to keeping a Robotech Kickstarter thread updated, yes, by all means - go ahead and start a new one, and we'll close this one up!
Just can't do that in good conscience.
).
